meeting Thursday July 18th 2024 assistant administrator Ike are you calling the role I'll do that okay here ball present Jensen present present Scott here Enard
pres please rise for the pledge allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for for stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and
justice can I get a motion to approve the agenda tonight also move second right any discussion yeah I'd like to um just seek a point of clarification on a procedural matter um
as I recall at our July regular Council Mee meeting we had discussed setting tonight's meeting and the fact that it was a city council meeting it's a special council meeting right and it's a special council meeting because it falls on a different date
than our regular council meeting and so when I think about the agenda and and what we have on at our regular Council meetings I'm noticing that U our agenda tonight doesn't coincide so as an example no open
forum and I'm not sure who to direct the question to I'm just wondering why do we not have open Forum at this council meeting I guess I can speak to that council member Scott so generally when it comes to a a special meeting uh per
meeting law a special meeting has to be it's about what it is what is on the agenda is what is noticed so um there are the four items that we noticed um and so in that manner they do differ from a regular meeting in the regular agenda format in that matter and I will
say too with an with a open Forum we have typically historically said that you know if it's not on our agenda if it is on our agenda tonight then we would ask that they would not come up to the podium so because it's a special council meeting and we have these items specifically I'm not sure that um it
would be appropriate for someone to come up to the podium and speak about something not on the agenda tonight well I guess I'm slightly more confused than I was initially um and this is a council meeting and our meetings we have open Forum um I don't like to say this or
feel this way but it makes me wonder if we're just not creating an additional opportunity for people to come up and address the council and I take a little exception to the fact that we don't have open for again this is a meeting of the city
council other discussion people be allowed to say anything um I would say no tonight this is about us discussing this there's been plenty of opportunities um in the last year I would say between the open houses
um you know previous Council meetings so I would say that no not tonight excuse me m point of order no rules a point of order cannot be called by the audience I can no a point of order cannot be called No a point of
order not be called by the audience I'm sorry State we're not by that Mr we have never adopted Robert's Rules of Order as a council any other discussion yeah I would just like to further make the point that I completely
disagree with open Forum not being on the agenda this idea that the public and those that want to address the council had opportunity at events like open houses and the like that's not a council meeting it is what it is it's an open
house and I think if we're going to stick to an agenda at a council meeting that includes open Forum that's what we ought to have on tonight's agenda okay any discussion I think I mean I can see where Brad's coming from
um that tonight if there's decisions going to be made if somebody does have something to say they should be allowed to say it okay any discussion all those in favor say I I I I
opposed motion carries all right so we will go ahead and move on to the City Hall remodel thank you Madame mayor members of the council uh so tonight we're here to uh present the bid from Hightech
construction on the city hall expansion and remodel project uh before I invite Andy with Hightech and then lindsy cream with width to come up and speak um I just do want to just uh address some of the stuff uh that I put in my memo specifically the section on the project
changes um so during uh this process uh started again on April 1 is when you uh made the motion accepted the uh um agreement with width to go into final design construction document and then bidding uh we as staff have been working
with WTH um and height Tech um to finalize those designs based off of what was presented and approved back in April during the bidding cycle bidding period um we met to discuss budget make
see where we were with budget um with high-tech and um during the process uh after the first kind of rounds of uh of quotes came in to high-tech from subcontractors the project was around that $3.4 million range which is a lot
higher than we originally anticipated so looking at ways to reduce the cost uh we took a step back looked at the project as a whole to try to figure out areas that we could potentially cut back um without necessarily fully uh reducing
scope so there are a number of items um that we did change from uh what was originally presented then also um put out to the initial construction documents um and all this colors out really quickly ceiling lighting the lobby was reduced from a vaulted ceiling
so if you see in the in the uh rendering that was in the in the lobby here we had kind of Ved with the exposed beam ceiling uh eliminated that went through just a classic drop ceiling with uh those regular uh LED lighting in that uh
front desk in the in the lobby um we originally have a stone type material for its durability we just changed that to a plastic laminate uh expansion of the existing bathroom so here in the hallway uh in those designs originally expanded them to being um you know men's
and women's with multiple stalls uh we removed that and kept them replaced them with a simple remodel of the existing spaces as single-use bathrooms uh we were fine on toilet count with the addition with the new bathrooms that would be in the new Lobby so that was an area we cut back on if you look at the
uh initial designs as well and I'll uh go to the new floor plane here shortly um we had a double entry in the lobby so one that went to the west to the parking lot and then one that went into the East for the park so the East door was changed from a double entry to a single
door entry uh in the rendering you'll you would have saw in the lobby um there was an accent wood accent wall behind the in the council chambers behind the Das we removed that and displaced it with a simple painted accent wall uh audio visual package we reduced
that significantly to make um the fullest use of our existing equipment uh we had a snow melt system which was all which was something that we discussed I think back in March April located at the entrance to the lobby again to just try to help keep ice and
stuff out we removed that there were some decorative trusses on the exterior near the entrance were removed also the exterior Stone Face in the uh on the front of the building the west side of the building that had city of breing point on there we removed that um that also had some illuminated
letters we removed the illuminated letters as well uh we were going to give the city hall sign a full facelift uh that's what I'm calling it so we were going to place the siding on it uh we were going to update the digital reader board um we removed those pieces and just simply and replaced it with a
simple paint job to update the paint job and then match it with the siding so the siding wouldn't change but the paint would match that of the of the building uh there's some curban gutter work around the parking lot entrances that was identified is not uh necessary so we
removed that and then uh while the build why the connections the design of the electrical system uh was maintained with the intent of a backup generator the generator itself was removed and that's something we could capitalize down the road if we wanted
to so as we looked into all the different areas we cut in these are the areas that we felt like were the only I will call it fat we kind of really had left in this project and felt like anything further um would be uh to reduce costs would be you'd have to
reduce the scope um so that's what you um some of the things that we took into account um right off the bat before and it's taken into account in the bid that high-tech has before you today so um I'll guess before are there any
questions on those items specifically before I have Andy and um Lindsay come up do you have the dollar amounts that those were from a savings perspective so you know we were at 3.4 and the the total bid that and's going to is not to
exceed 2.95 so about a half a million dollars okay like something like um the U where is it the snow melt system right so what is the benef like as far as like cost like what is the benefit to the staff to have
that as far as like shoveling snow and doing that what what are we losing we don't have to well we we intention of the snowm system was reduce time having to shovel the sidewalk so we shovel the sidewalk now we can continue to shovel the sidewalk yeah I
just I guess I'm I think the hardest part about some of this stuff you know even with the replacing to laminate is obviously the LIF span of things like stone versus laminate right so in 10 years if that laminate chips are we going to have to replace it right so I
think I I'm not a huge fan of kind of nitpicking through some of these things but it would be nice to understand what the dollar amounts that were assigned to some of these are all of those again the all of these items were he had quotes for from subcontractors so he can speak
to all of that as well okay can you clarify um on the audio visual package line it says was reduced to use the existing system to the fullest extent possible what's the idea with the fullest extent possible yeah so our
initial design goal was to um you know do things such as uh have some fixed microphones um instead of headsets um so in so essentially those were removed um you know the speakers
pretty much you know instead of getting new new speakers use the existing speakers you know assuming that we can move the which we're pretty confident we can move the speakers move the speakers uh we already were planning on reusing our cameras um so uh in the community
room part of it when you would put it in community room mode we did have a uh a ceiling mounted projector and projector screen um we removed those um that's not something we have today so we removed that um Daniel is there anything that
are specific that you you're my I anything specific you think I'm missing I think the idea was not to try to have to expand the system we have now um yeah so in the initial um design the thought was that we would want to revamp
some of the systems we're using in here so that we're getting better audio quality um right now we have a lot of packet loss reduction because we're using Wireless and the recording system is kind of outdated and old and just it's kind of what but it does work um when it came back how with the price
that it was at we weren't as comfortable with it so we figured hey we might be able to reutilize some of the stuff we have right now and that was where we ended up on there like David said we went from essentially trying to keep a couple things like the cameras are in good condition there's no reason to
replace any of those um also those are pretty expensive cameras and they're not at end of life yet so we can keep those um but we figured well we can take what we have now and sort of program around it and then keep the bulk of it um that
was the thought process behind it but my like I said my current plan in our current strategy is like we're we're basically keeping the entire system that we have in this room right now um I have no intention of replacing basically any of this we will have to replace it sooner as a result of that just because
there will come some things that will break but we can cross that bridge when we come to it yeah I appreciate the clarification and I think what you said at the end would be overall my concern uh we're going to go through the paces of remodel and spending the money that that
takes it just seems to me like it would be a really good investment to not continue using an old outdated system as is being acknowledged um so the last the last item there um regarding the
generator do we currently have a generator no not for the city hall we don't y so that was during the discussion um that's kind of throughout the dis the design whether it was the new when we were first started with new building and then remodel um there's a discussion of backing up the building
and I think we went back and forth um I think at one point we actually recommended not backing it up and then I think it was in the January or February meeting um you guys a council had a discussion theci actually no we should back it up for the main purpose of should say we have a storm and City Hall
is spared you know you look at what's just happened down in hon Texas granted we're not going to get a hurricane but say we get say the the tornadoes we had a month ago were a lot worse you know we could have City Hall backed up and maybe have it as a cooling center or some kind
of Recovery Center not necessarily as a shelter but somewh in recovery center if we had that generator in there so um that's why we designed this project to have a generator um but we the generator itself I can remember exactly the bid
you had Andy but it was north of $100,000 so that was an area where we said we don't have one today so it's not something we'd be losing um and it's something down the road we could capitalize and and acquire at a later date the connections would already be
there so it would just be to get um I think it was planned the idea would be like a fixed natural gas generator we could get that at a later date the connections would already be there though yeah again I guess I would just speak to a level of concern about cutting an item like that out it feels
to me any way pretty pretty essential that we have backup power at at City Hall um when I think about how we serve our our customers residents and just the public at large um to not have a
generator that can continue powering City functions just doesn't feel like a good place to be and I do agree with councilman Scott on that does anyone else have any questions on it okay okay then I'll have a mrar and
I'll let you speak to your ped good afternoon um again Andy pickar with high-tech construction um I appreciate the opportunity um to put together a number on for this um project for you
guys let you guys fire away um we're at that uh 2.95 million um it's higher than I wanted it to be but uh you know after we pull it all together with uh numerous subcontractors and and materials um
that's uh that's where we're at so um I can speak on a few of those items that uh you guys had some questions on um so the generator I guess is was one um so that is a uh what we have in there currently with that number
um again does not include the physical generator but it does allow for a plug-and playay situation so if you had uh a rental generator or something like that you could plug it in and uh feed the building so
um the uh let's see was there I remember is there other uh the quartz and laminate some of those finishes right those are definitely considerations right the longevity um with that I mean it comes
out a cost right like all things so so with the the cost overrun from the 2.5 to initially 3. for where was the the major part of the cost was it the
remodel was it the new build the remodel yeah so and I know you know going back through this right we gave a a firm number on the new build um back in December whatever it was and then when we decided or started looking
at the renovation piece we were giving square foot numbers I mean that's a a pretty big guess right what does renovation mean um it means something different to me than it probably does to you guys and that's probably where the
biggest outlier is um you know and and with this you know the ab system is big numbers um furniture package you know some of those that when I put a square foot number together doesn't necessar include some of that so um we had to put
uh $100,000 well in to feed the fire suppression system so there's some big big ones that kind of jump in there um but yeah it it again um materials are still going up a little bit um so that is driving some of that number as well
you know bidding summer versus um last uh winter so do you know a number because I know this bid is both you know existing City Hall and new what the approximate cost of the new addition is yeah I didn't break that out okay um
when we got our our subcontractor numbers it was just lumpsum combined which is what you were supposed to do I just curious well and we knew the price increase was going to be part of it when we were discussing this I mean that was the risk that we took in voting for the
remodel because remodels always come in higher than and this was we discussed this so um this is where we're at and this is what we did discuss this and this was the risk Andy I got a few questions um in
probably would start with the very bottom of the information that you provided it outlines a number of exclusions so the things that are not I'm guessing included in the overall price can you just clarify each one of
those um yeah definitely um so yeah going through our prevailing wages um so assuming the funding source um isn't State dollars or any of that doesn't
require prevailing wage so um the the rates we pay you know typically pay the guys isn't a huge difference from prevailing wage rates but it would be an increase to go to prevailing wage rates so does does a bond require prevailing
wages does not the funding sources we would be using do not require prevailing wages okay thank you perfect sorry um ESP as abatement um with the existing building right that that applies um I don't foresee that being an
issue but if there is a some material found um we'd have to pay a contractor to come in and um professionally Abate that so so then how do you see something like that potentially working with the cost that you've come up with I mean
would would the city be looking at a cost increase then to address that abatement yes if there was any pH um with this um year of build again I do not see that as an issue but you know you never know I've been surprised
before yeah and we discussed this in L at length so um yeah just the last the next item um unforeseen conditions um within wall
spaces if something is rotten um that we don't know about that we weren't planning on um swapping out within the plans those types of scenarios again we did a little bit of Investigation I don't foresee that as an issue either um but if there was a wall that was failing
from rot or was framed incorrectly on the initial build some of those types of things is all that one's covering so that would primarily cover anything that's like in a wall that we can't sit here and see corre right that's sheetrocked or whatever yep um any of this the uh Furniture um
or storage or removal would assume be by owner um generator again just noting that that generator was removed um the boiler and hydronic system again just noting that that snow melt system and
the boiler system as a whole would be uh was removed from the project so the boiler is in conjunction with the snow melt system then correct cuz that was the only system that served okay if if I could just Echo onto that
out of those exclusions besides the generator and the boiler hydronic how often do you put those exclusions on most bids like those are boilerplate exclusions or pretty much yeah yeah there's no there's nothing special we're trying to hide or anything there that's a that's a pretty standard um you know
just identifying the wage rates um so that they're out front so we're talking about it and it doesn't get overlooked um and then like say asbest and unforeseen conditions kind of all fall into that category so and a lot of times we you know
exclusions or clarifications I guess is another term that we use with that as well so kind of the same thing under division 02 existing conditions demo and site work the first line item there uh can you help clarify
what selective demolition yeah so what we term selective demo is not like a structural demolition of a building it would be pulling drywall off the walls um removing casew work or furniture or cabinets or some of that that is know
you know doors some of that that is what we term selective demo okay and I guess the last question I have is in division 12 Furnishings um just interested in how was the
130,000 Furniture allowance determined upon um Lindy might want to Andy Lindsay might be the best one on that one he's the furniture Guru um the furniture allowance under
division 12 was generated based on user group meetings that we had with staff in the building to talk about the requirements for their office furniture open office furniture and then also um spaces such as the community room council chambers multi-purpose room and
Library um we decided to work with uh Ki Furniture which is a sourcewell approved vendor so that is uh Furniture you can buy direct from sourcewell without going out for competitive bids um yeah I I don't know what else to add
to that do you have to know like through Ki Furniture then what is a typical cost for just a single workstation for an employee yes I don't have that in front of me but we do you we've got a a line item budget for the furniture
MH and of course I'm just wanting clarification and asking these questions it feels like 130,000 to me is it's pretty light when I think about my experience with office furniture and the costs the number of Staff we have of how we're going to have to outfit spaces
with tables and chairs and I mean those items add up quick they do yeah so we work together on the specifications of the furniture items so we're not looking at a residential Quality Furniture this is a uh very competitive commercial
grade of furniture so the longevity of this furniture is something that will lasts a very long time um The Source wall budget um or the source wall pricing also reduced is list price um given the amount of furniture that we're purchasing we actually get to tap into
Source B's deepest tier of discounting which is 50% off of list we also reviewed other discount options not looking at sourceful pricing but other options that are out there the University of Minnesota the state of Minnesota pricing um those all do not
get to that deepest tier of discount or sourcewell um in this case was the deepest tier discount so we're getting about 50% off off list because of the quality or I'm sorry the quantity of furniture that's being purchased for this order that's the benefit of working through Source wall is that they have
those contract Partners to reduce cost okay thank you yep on a follow up on that Furnishings does that still include the cube spaces then it does that okay Y and so we built um future flexibility in mind with the cubicle layout so instead of building the power
and data through the floor in specific location we're dropping power poles from the ceiling so it's very flexible into the future um we also have planned for the space in the open Office to accommodate future growth in cubicles and also reconfiguring the cubicles that are
there so today they might be in one configuration but in the future we might need to get more staff in that open office area so the furniture that was selected for this quote for example um is very reconfigurable into the future um even the furniture for this uh
space is as well um things are utilized in this room that have like a flip and tuck away option so we don't have lifting of heavy tables having additional um excess of storage room for example so tables and chairs can kind of recirculate in the community room or
council chambers just based on the use anybody else great I you're good thank you question for Andy if I may um it appears that the design kind of changed slightly a little bit on the self side of the building where the library was going to be on the west uh looks like that
flipped flopped because the I'm just assuming this is why I want to build into that the multi-purpose room is now in the west is that due to the nonexpanding of the bathrooms and using that space as the storage space or I can actually take that one Andy that was kind of um the decision about that is as
we were getting into more of the finalizing the documents kind of twofold that actually had nothing to do with the bathroom so actually that switch happened before that um the reasoning was is that the West Side space so uh down here the space um is actually about
50 square ft bigger than the east side and so we thought the multi-purpose room should be bigger than the library first of all also uh this is obviously um this corner gets Sun pretty much all all day long and we thought from a library
perspective with books and stuff you wouldn't necess want that that exposure in the library um so that's why one reason so the biggest two reasons were first of all this space is slightly smaller so we wanted more space in a multi-purpose room in the library and then also just
because of that that sun exposure we felt the library would be more appropriate on the east side that's why we just flip those too and are we still considering the sou Southern portion I know one of the topics uh that the Parks committee wanted was like year round restrooms indoor restrooms is this south
portion still going to be open per se or is it that middle we discussed that quite a bit um especially when it came to access control we had actually I think we discussed Access Control multiple times and I think what it came down to is the best area for you know part of the desire was to have
essentially 247 um if possible access for people using the park for especially bathrooms so it came down to the best most efficient way is this South piece so um these doors here um going into the
community room those would be access controlled so outside of ours they would be locked um uh this door up here is is purely in an egress so um there would actually be no handle on the outside so it would be a crash bar you could get out but you couldn't get in so pretty
much it would just be this door um these doors could stay open um they're programmable so if we ended up having an issue um where people weren't respecting the building um we could lock it down um but right now would be people could um come in use the
bathrooms um I believe do we put we put Access Control in the library in the multi-purpose room yeah so these two could be also these two would also be locked so you know outside of hours people could come in get in here use the bathrooms um so they would have especially in the winter um when the
current bathrooms aren't available they could come come in use the bathrooms you know or you know changing use it as a kind of a family style bathroom if they wanted to um do that um again these would be access controlled so they don't have to lock at 4:00 when we're not here if you wanted to leave them open to 7
that would be kind of a council decision of how long do you want to leave them open um you know especially thought process there was the library for for not here or on weekends um again we could always see how it goes all the rooms would have um cameras in them so
if there isn't issue someone's going to get caught on camera doing it um so uh but there is access control so that if there was an issue you could always just lock it down um or if you want to lock it down and then decide you know what let's try opening it up you could do that as
well thank you from I will add I just want to on that one clarification um so this door would be locked if someone rented the community room um uh depending on the type of security system you either can program it give them a temporary 5 whatever to get in so we'd
unlock this door um what would happen is so this door is not access controlled the reason being is per um the building code there would have to be an egress um we can't just have this one so this door would not be access controlled so if
someone is using the community room they would be able to get into the lobby um but they would wouldn't be able to get past that so um staff space is locked community um the conference room would be locked um they would be able to use the bathrooms obviously we wouldn't lock
those down um like the It room that would be locked so if someone's using a community room in theory they would have access to this Lobby um we would probably keep these doors locked so if they went out these doors they have to go all the way back around or someone have to let them in um but that was just
an area that we couldn't avoid that per building code requirements um but if someone is not using the space this store will be locked and they will not be able to access this space and therefore not this space if that makes any sense any other questions I don't at
this time no okay I we're good thank you all right so I guess we can kind of talk about what is everyone's thoughts on moving forward with us and and from what we've
heard tonight and the proposal are we not going to get into more discussion on the funding aspects yeah I can go into that if you like so in my memo um again just updated
funding numbers for you um as you see in there estimated end of year balance in the capital fund is $5.1 million um as of 630 about $299 is in there right now there's that a little over 300 um fund balance in The Debt
Service fund and as we have no debt um that is available for any use that the council chooses uh we anticipate a little over $1.26 million in Revenue by the end of the year um the fire truck is also
something we discussed in uh the June meeting will need to bond and get reimbursed for that so that cost came out of the capital fund so if you put that back in there um and then uh so you have essentially these two forms of Revenue um that will come in we estimate there's currently about
$850,000 in planned expenditures that we've yet that were planned as part of the budget process that we've yet to realize so that's how we get to an estimated end of year balance about 5.12
million uh on the bonding side again we've talked about the 572 which is made up of that 230,000 um old debt payment that we've been that that's been kept in as a transfer to the capital fund $342,000 that's um that's been in going
in there to help um fund the capital fund the last number of years uh between those two uh as presented in June by Baker till you can get about 5.8 million um in bonding capacity just from those two sources of
revenue um so that's some of the uh funding um when it comes to payment um essentially two two Avenues you can go down the first is to bond the project um what I presented here would be a bond in its entirety um so if you bonded 2.95
million take that out of the 5.8 million essentially capacity that we have um already built into the levy uh you would uh be able to pay for the project still have about 2.86 million in capacity left over still have about $ 5.12 million in
your Capital fund at the end of the year the other option would be a cash payment so if you paid the 2.95 um out of directly out of our our Capital funds uh you would end at
2.17 now again I'm assuming you know we're you pay for you wouldn't pay for the whole city hall up front obviously but I'm just trying to get an example here um so you would end that with 2.17 million still in the capital fund and then you still have your 572 for any
future use that you choose to use it for obviously there's always the hybrid option pay some Bond some um if you wanted to go that route as well can you give us um because we were we were kind of discussing this what is the benefit of paying cash
because originally that was what we had discussed um so difference paying cash bonding obviously if you I'll just go I'll just go that's the order hmin uh bonding you're using today dollarss paying in tomorrow dollars um it's kind of the idea you you maintain more cash
liquidity that you can use for different um projects now or in the near future um defect you pay roughly based off of what um Baker Tilly presented I think it's some like $900,000 over 15 years in interest so you obviously you're going
to end up a $2.95 million project is really going to cost you almost four you know three and a quarter three you know 3.75 over 15 years um if you pay cash obviously it's
2.95 done um but then you have less cash in the short term to do other projects have you looked at the benefits of doing a hybrid and what would be a benefit of doing like a higher cash lower Bond like would that even be a benit depend I think it depends on what you're trying
to do um you know if we were talking about for example later on in the agenda I'll be presenting the draft of the of the capital Improvement plan if you're trying have extra money on hand to seed like a capital Improvement plan or you've got you know if you're if you're
concerned about hey we've got a you know we've got some in the next couple of years some equipment pieces that we don't want to bond for we want to pay cash for so we don't want to have our our cash balance go lower that' be a situation where you could consider doing
some bonding some cash um that's kind of you know then you pay less in interest most of the time when I see in my personal experience when I've seen cities do that hybrid it's because they're going we want to maintain a certain level of cash liquidity we want we want to have a certain amount of cash
on hand um at any given time so you know from my cons my my thought is you know even as we get into discussion about the equipment Capital plan um you know 2.1 million I think in the past I said you know 2.5 you know um at the end of the day
2.17 um it's right still in that ballp Park um you know from my perspective that doesn't you know I'd be comfortable um you know if we were talk if we were going to be doing this project and getting down to quar million you know 250,000 balance I'd be sweating a little bit cuz that's you know that's kind of
low um but 2 million um with that 57 with also that 572 left over I think we'd still be in a very good financial position so um sometimes when it comes to bonding you know pay you know should
bond this project pay cash for this project pay cash for this project or Bond it you get a little bit of a robbing Peter to PayPal um so it's really kind of comes down to what is the council most comfortable with obviously with bonding you do have as Baker Tilly
presented um obviously there's a process to bonding these would be um CIP bonds um so obviously you have to go through a process um takes time to get it um uh opportunities for you know reverse
referendum things like that um so that's where you know other aspects to the the bonding piece versus cash obviously there's there's no it's the council's decision but if we look at any of the capital that we're looking to purchase in the next 10 to 15 years $900,000
could of what we would save in a bonding paying interest we could purchase that Capital whatever it is that we're looking to purchase so I I think that's something that we have to consider is that 900,000 is a lot of money to be throwing away at interest when we have
the cash to do it today but as David also mentioned you run the risk of not having the liquidity that the city may want to have not knowing what could come up what type of emergency we could be faced with I I think the idea of moving forward um in
utilizing a majority of cash is is very pound wise and and foolish otherwise I I would not in any way favor that um David can you clarify um in that first kind of table in our Project
funding uh the anticipated Capital Revenue yeah so um in the we went to the the um did I have that I did not um if you give me I don't think I'm going to be able to access the drive at the moment um essentially the anticipate Capital Revenue so yeah so when we do
the budget um there are certain things um that we we can anticipate so of that anticipated Capital Revenue so like 1.26 eight million um obviously there's that trans there's those transfers so like essentially that the 572 that was part of that Revenue we do that at the end of
the year um so there's that is made up of there um uh we look at um uh some uh what else do I have in there um that's also made up of Revenue we get from um
like assessments that get paid um we get when we get our tax settlement so there's a certain amount of Assessments that end up going into those get put into the capital fund when they get paid um so we get that when we get our tax settlement which we
just got um but as it hasn't been um recognized in here so we just got it at the beginning of July um so that's where a lot of that Revenue comes from is that 572 um from you know assessments um and
other let me see if I can actually let's see if I have access because I'm not directly connected do I have access to the drive if I do I can actually pull it up and I do it'll be easier if I can just get in here let me pull up the
budget and then I'll just I can just detail it it's easier that way okay so if we go to the capital fund I'm going to scroll 401 401 401 there we go
oops oh come on we just there Capital fund yeah so this is the um the approved 2024 budget so when we looked at Revenue this is so franchise fees we estimated on $5,000 $2,000 um uh $50,000 in
special assessments actually probably about almost $80,000 assessments um there you know property sales um copies and then the transfers in so this is where we um there's that
340 there's $110,000 that comes in we do out of parks every year 50,000 from Public Works um so it's actually the 572 plus another 70,000 so there's six something there so that's where the revenue so we anticipated um
790 and then um there's more there's 500 other additional thousand in there can't remember where that where that is exactly but yeah so that's where we're at so if I'm understanding those sources
of revenue right it sounds like there's a reasonably high level of unpredictability in terms of what we're going to take in to go into the capital fund a little a little bit um the numbers I've put in Revenue have always been I go on the conservative end of it
I know last year I think we were we ended up bringing in I wanted to say it was almost 300,000 more than what we budgeted for because the other thing that we don't budget in there is interest um so be that we get from our um
Investments um so um that's something we don't budget I don't budget that just because it is that is UN completely uncertain um right now I think on interest we are I last I looked um I think we were
well over $50,000 in interest already this year and I think the overall thing that I see when I look at that information is is you know it is basically at this point an estimate right so if we're estimating 5.1 as a
balance it's certainly not saying that we're going to have that much money in the capital fund as a balance it could end up being 300,000 half a million less corre right an estimate and then the anticipated truck
reimbursement is that for the new ladder truck yes so when we fronted that payment that we took that out of the capital fund so that's just the reimbursing of that money which couldn't that be well into
next year I mean until we Bond we're not going to see the reimbursement for that well based off of whatever decision is made tonight um where actually my plan was actually on a August 5th have that process start so we'd actually have that this year
okay that because that's an equipment Bond it's a simpler bonding process and we would if we started that process on August 5th we would probably have the money by the beginning of November and then could you also touch on we've had you and I have had numerous
conversations on the street CIP my concern is there's going to be no money for streets so depending on how we Finance all this there may not be anything to put in the streets CIP to start funding it right away
correct correct so obviously we don't have enough money to do everything um you know if we and I might just jump ahead a little bit here um if the city Hall I'm going to do a
a this is about the equipment CP so we'll get to discussing that a little bit um a little later so I don't want to jump too far ahead but essentially in a scenario in which city hall was paid for in cash should you choose to do that um I said I ask maybe we have about 2 million left over if used 1 million of
that to um seed an equipment Capital plan um using existing yet dollars I estimate I don't want to get too far into this quite yet so we'll explain all these numbers to you um but you could essentially you would have you'd pay for
City Hall you'd fund your equipment Capital plan as it currently sits um you'd have still have roughly a million dollars left over and you'd have about that about 400 of that 572 left over um that would probably then cover um that
400 would probably more than comfortably cover a bond to cover the cost of Bushman Road um so then you're doing City Hall Bushman Road and Equipment Capital plan you could do any combination of that um you know I think
and then you know maybe if you drop City Hall maybe you have money for Bushman Road Street CIP some kind of money for Street CIP and then money for Capital CIP vice versa you could do all some kind of juggling fortunately we don't know today how much money we would need
to to cover a street CIP obviously that's part of that process of figuring out what does that dollar figure look like once wood Seth has completed that we'll have that roughly by the end of the year also part of that discussion is going to get to once that's done the next phase of the discussion is the
funding of that and is that moving trying to get rid of Assessments Go 100% Levy assessments you know changing the assessments so it's a it's a kind of a complicated discussion um we would have some money
maybe not a lot um so I think it all depends on what combination of projects you do I guess I think that you know the city hall and Bushman everything is just going to get more expensive so we need to find a way to get both of those done
in my opinion so we can move on to the next project so I think it's more just discussing maybe the percentage of cash and bonding um that we need to really look
at have anything okay I guess I'm not comfortable with the price as it came in it's only going to get higher though well that could be but I'm still not comfortable with it well and I would agree with Steve and I
think maybe even the mayor uh it's only going to get it more expensive um my fear is that the cost of new city hall and remodel was reduced um likely more than what it should have
been and I feel like we're knowingly entering a project that invariably is going to end up costing more there's there's no way that we can know where there might be mold issues um we haven't even talked about
and figured out what's happening with removal and storage of existing furniture and Equipment that's going to be a cost so while we talk about a $2.9 million price T I see it every bit increasing whether
it's directly at the time that the Project's happening or whether it's with additional needs like a generator that we knowingly are going to want to have or going to need to have at some point I think the issue is that we
already discussed this for a while months and we understood that building new we were not going to have the risk of these price increases and yet still we are here today with this decision so I think that we had a lot of opportunity
to make that decision to understand that this is what we were getting into when we decided to vote for renovation and this is where we're sitting today but I think that because we've already walked through that door we need to get the project done for staff and we need to move on to the next project um so it is
like I said unfortunate um that it is higher but we knew the risk and this is where it sits today and um we've spent a lot of time on this so I do think that we need to move forward with it just figuring out what percentage of cash or
bonding we're going to do well and once again I couldn't disagree with you more um you know there's reference to multiple times we've spent so much time on this I mean so much effort over years have important
this if we were to have done half the due diligence with City Hall with a remodel with true needs for this community the want being poured in purchasing the Landis gear building I would feel a hell of a lot more comfortable moving forward
with a decision this every bit feels to me like we've got council members with personal goals and aspirations around accomplishing projects and you're willing to do it at any and all cost to the taxpayer and I will not have any part of
it I think I've made my points and my concerns very clear up to this time I think uh I look back at the past and you know the council moved forward with doing a package for the new new
city hall uh we were pretty moving pretty pretty set on going forward with that um we had an open house we had public input about that that dollar figure was becoming too much so we came back to the drawing board and said okay let's let's look at that remodel in
addition um at that point we were estimating that 2.5 I I too agree came in higher than what was the goal um came in much higher and then we had to peel back some items um it kind of goes back to if it
was to be bonded you know the 230,000 um Bond payment would cover roughly 2.35 what it kind of tells me is that if we if we want to move forward with with new city hall because unless things have
changed we all agreed that staff space needs to be addressed we are short on staff space that is a need um for the city not a new community center we're taking that whole thing out we need new staff space um I believe we're still on
the same page but what what what I'm hearing though is that if we continued with a levy dollar amount of 230,000 that we kind of earmark for City Hall at that 2.35 million we've already seen that that is not enough Levy dollars to
pay for said billing building and so if we don't pull the trigger today which is an option um and we continue down the path of it would have to increase the levy to accommodate said said building with the amenities that we're talking
about not having today um you know it goes back to you know there's talk about reducing the levy that's not a possible way if we still acknowledge that the city hall needs to be addressed I'm wondering if that's a
consensus still with us and if it is what that means is if we don't go forward today we're going to increase the levy to accommodate for said building in the future plus some due to cost increase as we see in the future if
we don't do anything today corre am I correct the money in bonding capacity today we do we we have 2.3 and 3.4 uh 5. a clarification it's not it's not this
and that true 5.8 it's 5'8 I would say I would say look at it a 58 because it's not you could do I just I just the reason it's 2.3 and 4.2 those so there's there's enough but the concern is Bushman is still the impending imp pending project that we've
also agreed upon that needs to be addressed as well now yes we do have cash on hand or with anticipated funds to be able to pay uh for building but not for building and Bushmen so bonding will be required
regardless correct in any capacity I mean my concern still is there won't be anything for the street CIP granted that's that comes at the end of the year but the city has been putting x amount for many years toward streets and granted Bushman falls under
that but it we need you know we know there's streets right now that need to be they need work so that's going to negate the ability to uh you know have any money for Street CIP you know you have his
Capital plan um there's not enough for everything there's no two ways about it well we originally said too that 2.5 we could pay cash we could bond for the additional increase that we're seeing here today
and still pay the 2.5 like we originally discussed and just bond for that increase um but I I I think any city is going to struggle with the fact that there's always going to be more to do than you have cash or bonding at the time of a
decision but the problem is is like we have to make decisions to move forward we can't just continue to put these things off and I think that that is what has happened and so so I think that we need to find a way to get Bushman and
City Hall done in the best possible way the most fiscally you know the best way possible fiscally so I mean I I I think that it's going to get more expensive so I agree we should move forward with these two projects I
did not vote to approve the remodel on the expansion I wanted to go a different direction but the city council majority of the city council voted to move forward with the remodeling expansion that's we're talking about today um and if we're going that direction
which what was voted on and approved then I think we should move forward with it although I do agree with some of the discussions about not cutting some of the design changes that were in the end and I don't know what that looks like as far as like the ability to add some of those things back in like the generator that's been discussed the AV Equipment
and um for example the courts versus the laminate so those are but I would be in favor of bonding for this I don't think we need to we or we could do the you know 2.5 bonding and then the the remainder in
cash and just to clarify I think uh council member ball and I were in the same situation I too did not vote in favor at the time of moving this project forward and in large part because I honestly don't believe that there's been enough time enough Community
engagement enough information gathering to truly understand in looking at the existing City Hall what are the possibilities how can it be retooled in a way to accommodate staff to get to certain Community
needs and I was favoring more of the likelihood that we need additional space amounting into a reasonably modest addition to this building not an extensive new city hall that was my
issue and I was always in favor of a new build I knew this was going to happen I said it multiple times that remodel this you see an increase and this is what happened but because it was basically a stal made up here and if one of us
didn't move on our vote then staff would suffer and nothing would be done and in my opinion I think it's better to do something than do nothing so I did vote in favor of this not because I thought it was the best option but because I
wanted to take care of the staff so this is where we're at today and this is where we need to move forward now um so are you suggesting that the project cost increase was related to the remodel I think that when you have more
of a hard bid on new construction you're going to have less changes overall to that price and I believe you did allude to that and he is nodding his head but the new build was still 4.3 million I know and I understand that I mean I I
I I yeah no and I understand it was more but I mean when you look at 4 million versus 3 million and you have a $3 million Remodel and a $4 million new bill then you look at a 20 30 40 50 years from now are what council is going to look back and said man they could
have spent an extra million dollars and gotten a brand new building and that was always the way that I looked at it was the long-term investment into it not just the short-term had to do we pick the projects that are you know do things the least amount of cost because I think
quality makes a huge difference in the longterm you know health of a community and and again being fiscally responsible doesn't mean that you don't spend any money but again here we are today this is what we chose not everybody wanted
this I understand that but I do think that at this point we just need to decide what is the best way to finance it that makes the most sense I'm in favor of doing you know what makes the most sense for the city long term understanding that streets are going to
cost money but I think when you look at our health right now and the way that we have the cash and the bonding capacity there's a lot of cities that start streets plans that go 30 years that don't have as much cash on hand as we have so we are sitting in a much better
position than a lot of cities are so I do consider us very lucky in that regard but I no matter what um there's never going to be enough money to do everything that we need I would agree we're financially healthy but I I disagree there needs to be money put in
for Street CP the city's been putting it in for years saying it's for infrastructure it's four streets tonight do we have to make a determine that we're for sure bonding or not bonding or paying cash they could if we said we feel comfortable we can pay
cash but we want that option to bond at a later time should we start looking at the CIP plans and we go gez the the 2.9 that we just spent for City Hall we would like to have that back in cash to accommodate some seed money for the projects is that a possibility like we
did with the fir Tru yeah so if you wanted to have more discussion on you know do you Bond the whole thing do you Bond part um what you would do what we would do is at your meeting in August um on August 5th I think what you need first do would be are you accepting the
bid from Hightech that's obviously kind of question one we need a formal action on that to really get the process rolling August 5th we would do what we did as the firet truck which would be a revers resolution obviously you know what we talked about here we have the cash on hand that we can be paying for
the project as we go again it's not a $2.95 million bill on day one it's a as we go um type process and then how reimbursement resolution we would do the resolution for the full amount um and
then you have about 18 months is what you have within eight from the time that the resolution is adopted to um you have 18 months to execute to issue a bond if you do the amount if you do word the reimbursement resolution for the full
amount and choose to do less that's fine uh you can't do less and then do more so if you did you know had the re reimbursement resolution B for the 2.95 million and down the road you decide you know what we're only going to be 2 and A2 or two that should be fine um you
can't do well we'll do reimbursement resolution for two and then go actually let's just do the full thing so that's how we would do that but yes you would have the ability to have more time to discuss what exactly amount do you want and then actually go through the bond
the bonding process while get the pro while getting the project moving so if we accepted tonight um then what would that look like for you guys as far as when you would you start um I guess one thing to note so
this is a not to exceed number because we are actually still um we have a few um value engineering items or savings that we're still chasing um that we haven't got equipment prices back or some of that so note this is a not to exceed number because we feel
comfortable bringing this down yet um so with the gordian sour sourcewell process um there's still some data entry to do to generate um exact where the the dollars exactly fall so it's still a little bit of moving Target with that
matter um so we would finalize that that would generate a work order um with the final true final build amount and then um yeah then I guess constructionwise um just phasing talk this building would be left alone
we would take on the uh north side of the building build the addition um operations would still proceed in here um without being impacted too much and then uh you know finish that or get that started yet this fall and then work
through winter to have that addition finalized and then potentially um move everybody over and then take on the renovation as kind of phase one phase two if you will Andy if prove tonight when do you think you'd break ground um
it would be this fall so it' be probably September time frame we would start breaking ground on the addition well I'm even more concerned than I was before you know and correct me if I'm wrong but what I heard you say is you're still chasing savings the 2.9 is not to exceed
why wouldn't we as a council wait until they understand what the additional savings are we may be looking at a project that's 2.7 um we've we're talking smaller dollar months that that are still come in um reconfiguring the electrical gear
you know maybe it's $10,000 here there those types of dollars really is what I'm anticipating coming in and I understand that but we set up here in charge and responsible for taxpayer dollars and I think it is irresponsible of any one of us to move forward on a
project knowing that the cost could be reduced albe it slight overall it's still at the end of the day if it moves forward savings to the taxpayer um my definition and part of fiscal responsibility is not simply moving
things forward for the sake of doing projects at the least cost it is about recognizing what the need is which we have not done thoroughly and then it's identifying the time frame Associated around those needs
I hear longterm longterm who said we're looking or need to look and consider long-term maybe we're looking at more of what the community needs being midterm at which point in time after we get through that period then we look longer term this community continues to
go through certain changes and evolutions and adding population we play to uncertainties within the economy and a lot of other places um those are some of the hot buttons that I think of when I consider fiscal responsibility it's not simply
just knocking projects out at the least amount of cost it's spending the time identifying the need and then how that need fits into whatever that time frame is and we haven't even come close to spending the amount of time needed when you start
spending the kind of money that's in front of us tonight these project Take Years Years of conversation and developing scope and we're going to sit up here tonight and say oh we give it our best effort over the course of a few months
or a year and a half uh I am way uncomfortable Mr parar Mr Scott brings up a good point about the long term of how long projects take with this in a project of this magnitude that we're we're about to pull on if we continue
that what what have we maybe not addressed you know besides the community input like is there should we be investigating more on our on our structure here um what is an average turnaround time for something like this you know I he brings up valid points if
if are we going too fast what are we missing what's what's in in high Tech's opinion on that um no I don't my opinion I think you guys have you know you've looked at new
build consider those options um and then you know you've decided to go down the addition renovation side I mean what we've see you guys have done done the due diligence but you know I'm not saying that you have or haven't just
from the projects that I've been on with the with municipalities that's my opinion I would say you've done due diligence but and the thing about projects is you can't take years to do that because all you're doing is paying
more year after year the longer you wait things change studies you you know we look at even the studies on the trail or Bushman these are documents from 10 plus years years ago there's a reason you can't do due diligence for years you
have to do it within a time frame that makes sense for the bidding process but also like he mentioned we have gone through we we have had open houses we have had workshops we have had many many discussions so it we can't keep waiting
and waiting and waiting otherwise again nothing will get done and so that is why we don't take years to do projects well I'm not in any way suggesting that we sit on our hands and just neilly willly spend the next several years
trying to get something done I'm saying let's be reasonable in ensuring that we're taking the necessary amount of time to truly engage the community to ask the residents what do you see being in need in City Hall we haven't truly done
that not even anywhere close to it and with all due respect when it comes to you know I think everyone coming to their own definition of due diligence I don't think it's up to the contractor on a project to respond to
that at the end of the day I think it's the it's the community it's the residents what do they feel do they feel enough due diligence has been done on the existing project in front of us it would be an interesting question to ask people and to see what the
response is and that could could be a valid point my my concern is when you look at what are we exactly doing it's office space and that is the bulk of it
right maybe we disagree on that but I look at the the bulk of what it is it's for office space and I look at what we currently have and we're stepping over each other we don't have dedicated workspaces we don't have efficiencies and so when I when you ask for Community
input my concern is how much of the community will put forth and poke their head and and and agree with that I think that's where it comes back to us as a city council as the bulk of this is what does the staff need to be to be
successful now if we were talking about again we took the weight room off but weer talking weight rooms gyms pools 100% agree with you that is definitely Community involvement of what do we want for a community center but when the bulk of this project is revolving around on
staff use I don't think Community involvement would be looking at that in my opinion that's just my opinion they're they would be more interested in in the gym and and the you know things of those nature the library yes it's it's taken
out a few walls in in the current office space in the multi-purpose room taking a few walls and repurposing that but for the bulk of this project it is the office space and so for me that's where that's up to us to really understand and
truly put that value on of what staff's needs are to be successful in serving the community that's my take on it well I can appreciate Mike how you're how you're selling this project um because we're at least what I'm hearing because
we're really dealing about office space we ought not to involve the residents and Community much because you know we can we can figure that out right and that's where we just fundament disagree anytime that we're spending millions of dollars of taxpayer money we
had to be looking for any and all opportunity and creating more to solicit Community input the residents are the ones that should be deciding what city hall is and how it functions at the end of the day in my opinion but and and that's where I
would probably disagree is is this has been a hot topic for the last 6 seven months anybody had the uh ability to contact us and which we did we received a lot of feedback when we were looking at a new build we received a ton of feedback we did but since
then there's been none the the feedback was don't spend that much money and we have dwindled it down the the feedback wasn't about what we need or what we don't it was about the spending and now that we've got a bid in front of us of what staff needs
is and no other feedback of I've never seen a feedback of that's a too big B of A office space I've never seen anything like that it was always about the capital and how much money it was going to be that was the only negative feedback I've ever heard besides the community center and I'm going to bring
that up that was a negative side so that's why we've taken out that Those portions we've reduced the cost we've reduced looking at the community center with what this is accomplishing so I'll go back to it is up to us about about the staff and I know we disagree on that
that's that's just my stance and that's your stance and that's that's why we're here so my question to you is do you feel comfortable moving forward with their bid I do I feel I feel comfortable I would like to see a hybrid model of of a
bonding I'd like to know what our Capital Improvements are in the future because I'd like to pay as much cash as possible but I think it's also I think Mr chansky has brought up in the past of of us deciding what is that dollar amount we want to keep on hand as cash
um you know just like your personal fin finances you don't ever look at a project and go ah can I afford this can I not you look at it and go I can I can pay cash do I want to deplete it no which we're not talking about doing that here because we still have additional
funds on hand but if I can get a loan for it bonding maybe I want to supplement that to make sure that I keep that much cash that I I have I need to know that I have on again that is a policy that should be addressed but we haven't affirmed what the capital
Improvement plans are so I look at it going I'm I'm prepared to pay all cash but knowing what that these Capital plans are coming out in the next budget cycle here is having the ability to bond for it within the next 18 months to then put that cash back on hand to know what
we can start funding as we move along with these Capital Improvement plans and I would agree councilman ball are you comfortable moving forward with the high-tech bed can I just ask a question can I can I I don't know that it's the mayor's role to
sit up here and negotiate amongst the council excuse me I'm asking her a question please allow her to answer thank you well it gets to the I don't think that's your role it I'm sorry but you're not the one that's going to tell me what my role is up here I'm asking question I'm not look at the league of
Minnesota City's handbook weak mayor form of government in no way outlines the mayor sitting up here negotiating with council members what is your opinion on moving forward yeah normally like you usually I'm going to make I'm just going to make a motion then we can
discuss I'm going to make a motion to accept highx bid in the amount of 2.95 uh for the city hall expansion and renovation uh and to be discussed would
be how that is going to be funded um after this motion is made depending on how it's if it passes or not I should say I'll second okay any other discussion I just want to address
comments that I continue to hear tonight and I've heard them over the last several months related to the City Hall project and to me is every B of a scare tactic oh everything costs more if we don't do something now that is so far from the
truth how do we know what competition and the construction industry is going to look like down the road right now we are sitting coming out of a period covid where a lot of construction companies have gone out of business if anything we are operating in a highly
uncompetitive environment which probably reflects the level of costs that we're likely going to be incurring on projects like this uh so actually I think we would be a little bit well served by taking a little bit more time and thoroughly vetting exactly
the need and the time frame in which that need fits anybody else yeah I guess I'm not comfortable moving forward I mean I know the need for staff I 100% agree but what
my sticking point is last a lack of commitment for Street CIP plain and simple um without a commitment for you know funding some you know Street CIP so we can get started um that's my hangup
and I don't support it because of that anybody else yeah I just I mean I'm in support of moving forward again I would like to discuss at some point adding back in some of those things that were removed that we've talked about like the
generator the AV Equipment you know potentially the cords versus laminate or even the boiler in the entry system so that doesn't have to be I don't know um Andy if that can be like an add-on later like we can accept the bid now and
then add some of that stuff on later if we have further discussions at like the August meeting or some yes okay thank you and we can also discuss those with the discussion of the financing because then we'll kind of know like what are the costs of the add-ons and then we'll also be discussing financing so it'll be
a right and we can also discuss paying some of that in cash if there's something like a generator is a need that we think we have then maybe we can pay cash for that instead I think I've made my position on this project clearly known over the last several meetings
means I don't know if anyone spending their own money spending millions of dollars of their own money who would only take months to figure out what the project looks like uh what the needs are and then
slightly even more concerned hearing that the council is going to be set to consider moving forward with this acknowledging that we're going to be into increased costs so effectively what we're communicating to the taxpayers is we're going to approve $2.9 million and oh by the way
right we're planning on more costs down the road uh I mean tell me how that is representing our taxpayers well at all I I don't I don't understand that that's not fiscal responsibility right anybody else have
anything all right all those in favor say I I I opposed I cares all right so we will go ahead and and with that when will'll we red discussing that at the August plan on
August 5th okay all right Bushman so there's not going to be into discussion now that the council just approved to spend 2.9 Million on how it's going to be financed I mean really you approve moving forward a project and we're not
going to discuss financing we and certainly do that I think and and this would be my uh motion here is to ask for a resolution back in August for the potential of um bonding for that project um again um I was
prepared to pay cash on hand but I would rather see us go through the bonding process um and so i' I'd make a motion for that we add in just some of the numbers for some of those other items just to discuss not saying that we're doing any of them this just for
discussion if we can have those itemized out like I have a question on the bonding uh specifically the reverse referendum okay so the project we commit
it's committed correct so if we say we're going to bond and as part of the reverse referendum process that there's 70 signatures so then you're back you know
that it's supposed to go to a vote then do you fall back to financing or does the project stop we can pay cash so that's one yeah so I think I mean if residents are going to do that I mean I think they should really consider what
that could do um that could prevent us from making a decision that would be best for us long term um now we did this project was never contingent on bonding from the beginning I think we were comfortable looking at um cash so I
think from a financial standpoint um we've always been comfortable um with the financing so now it's just making the best decision on cash and and bonding so that is not true that's in no way accurate to the conversations at least that I've been a part of in this
group to sit up here and say that we came to an agreement on paying cash no I said that it wasent this meeting and conversation tonight cuz that is wholly inaccurate that's not what I said I said it we've never had this project was never contingent on
bonding throughout the entire process that we've gone through um it was not contingent on that so um at what point time was that decided well and we we understand that you have a different opinion and that's fine um well it's not just me that has a different opinion I would like to move on um so we're not
going to talk about financing we will talk about it on at the August meeting so Michel you can add on those the one item that I mentioned I'll I will second your motion cuz I think you had a motion on the floor can I just keep it with bonding for now sure I like to just have
the resolution come back in August for bonding yep okay I'll second that all right another discussion well so what exactly does that mean yep so just like we did with the fire truck uh we'll have a resolution in front of us that can say
that any expenses incurred with said project that we can ask for bonding within 18 months I believe Mr chansy clarified yeah so it's a it's a it's a yeah so the bonding resolution essentially it's to say same thing with with the fire truck
it's a reimbursement resolution saying we we're doing this project at this amount and we may decide to bond it in the future and pretty much have that 18 months I still don't get how as a counil you can spend $2.9 million and not at
the same time have conversation about how you're going to finance it I mean you don't go just pull a new car off the parking lot and not talk to somebody about how you're going to buy it well that's and that's where I go that we have that cash on hand that we have $5.1
million estimated estimated um that the goal is not to right we want to bond for it to keep that cash on hand like I discussed to make sure where does a capital Improvement plan so we make sure the seed money is there and we have everything again these are all things that we're working on that are going to
be in front of us for that next budget season so when we look at this project after after this goes through and we go we would like to bond for 1.2 million to make sure that we have that cash on hand after looking at everything we've paid
cash for the project reimbursing ourselves up to that dollar amount that we that we are looking for saving us the finance charges for the bond for the full amount so if I'm understanding correctly then the council as a part of moving the
project forward is saying that we're committed to paying cash for the entire amount yes okay thanks for the clarification it's more than I've gotten any other time kind of like going buy a car if you if you know you've got 40,000
in hand 50,000 that's round up and you go buy a car and the interest rate is cheap do you want to pay full cash or do you want to keep that cash on hand that's one of those questions that as a personal finance you always ask yourself of whose money do I borrow what rates
what what do I use and so if we can save ourselves almost a million dollars in in interest fees from not having the bond the full amount that's money worth spending and saving in my opinion I was just seeking clarification and ask the
question as to what are we as a council saying in terms of how this project is being financed and now I understand that it's being entirely paid with cash so appreciate the clar I guess that's not what I I wasn't understanding that's what your motion was Michael so maybe that's helpful councilman Scott
because I thought it was just to have a discussion about what portion would be bonding and what portion would be cash yep so with with that resolution similar to how the firetruck was is we have 18 months to then go ask for bonding up to
2.95 yeah so if we decide we only need to bond 1 million we can choose to bond only 1 million so we're not just saying we're for sure just going to pay all of this in Cash correct what we did for sure say though with the previous motion that you did make is that as of now if
if we if we don't want to go for bonding we are moving forward with spending 2.95 million cash should we decide that I mean that's the I mean but it's it's it's it's a discussion I agreed to move forward with the project but we didn't
discuss how we were financing it yet so exactly that the bonding cash Michael so I I don't think that agreeing to the bid is agreeing to paying for cash yes correct it's just saying that we're agreeing that was not my motion but
you're agreeing to pay for it yes correct okay yeah yes I'm not arguing with that be paid we don't know how we're going to pay for it yet if it's going to be cash bonding so so I want to make sure that you understand what the
motion was on the initial motion that you made when you said it was to move forward without having bonding in the discussion you made a motion to move forward with paying 100% cash no no that's not what I said I said I
understand that's not what you did and that's why I want to clarify because this could be recalled if bonding is not sought after do you not want to move forward with it project well that's not I I want it I I want that answered my opinion if
we want to talk about financing it is that we should be bonding for some of it yes yes I do not think we should pay cash for all of it no but that's going to be combination of maybe we pay some cash I guess the question is first of all is there anyone I would I would say
for those that voted in yes to move forward again I'm not I don't want to Discount any other the council so for the council and I think maybe this a clarification here is there anyone who's saying no to bonding no then it's yeah then it's because you're get I guess councilman
Ron what I'm hearing from you is if we decide We can't agree to bond but if I'm hearing well we're all agreeing to some level of bonding I guess I'm okay I guess I guess clarification is this so if you're all I think you're
all kind I think you're kind of talking around each other I don't I guess I haven't heard of anyone saying no I do not want to bond I I will only vote for this project if we pay cash unless that's your stance no no none of us so from that perspective but I do want to go back and just make it very clear with
the motion that was made is next step is I'm going to sign a contract with Hightech construction to do this project yeah and we will discuss how to pay for it and that committed you're committing to doing the project is just you're going to decide to later
date whether how much you're going to bond let's put it that way cor is that what we're getting at that was that is what I understood as well is that what you understood okay then we all understood that and there's no we don't need to you're doing the project we're going to decide how much for bonding at
a later date correct but thank you for councilman Scott just well I mean again I I don't think it makes a lot of sense to most anyone if you're to ask them you're going to move forward with doing a remodel on your home but gez you're not quite sure how you're going to pay for it yeah I could I could use some
level of my cash and I might take out a loan but to me it every bit feels like the decision that's been made tonight should then follow with how much are we going to bond for how much are we going to commit to cash to Steve's point there are other needs in this
community and I think overall in my honest opinion the higher needs are roads I would you know it's only going to be possible for us to continue having conversations about how much money we have have and what approach do we take in addressing roads the more clear that
we can be tonight on exactly how is this project going to be financed well and I would disagree I am in development and it is very common to actually go through the process of a pro fora understand what your costs are especially when you're looking at building an apartment
complex when you understand what the cost is and do you understand all these other factors then you decide at that point how you're going to finance it and a lot of times you do um have the cash you can pay cash you can raise money but then depending on interest rates you can
look at leveraging your debt so a lot of times you will pay cash for something and then you'll be able to get a loan out against that so again the cash out refi they happen all the time just depending on what the market is doing so absolutely in development it happens a
lot when you know you're going to move forward the project cuz you know it's going to be profitable and you decide how to pay for for that it's not something you decide necessarily right up front it can change it can vary throughout a course of a year or two years depending on the market so
absolutely projects do move forward in that manner um and I see that being very similar to what we are deciding right now because we don't know yet what that looks like but we will make that decision at the next meeting well you're saying administrator chansky knows what
direction we're moving in he can help bring some stuff back in August to help us make that decision so I I appreciate that couple weeks time to have some more information about how we could split up bonding versus cash to make a better decision about how to fund this project
kind of sounds to me like the council was Ill prepared tonight to make a decision on this project and also coincide conversation to get very clear on how we're going to fund it to compare City operation and spending of taxpayer dollars to that of private development
to me just goes to show how completely out of touch you are okay with best utilization of tax trying to make me look bad and say things that to make you look seriously just stop it's me wanting to have conversation and debate okay I'm
going to let no I'm going to let him talk you've had enough you had enough time to talk tonight I don't appreciate it councilman Scott well it goes both ways go ahead I guess the one comment I have okay City Hall remodel expansion
went through you know 2, 950,000 I do have a concern that the council uh that voted in favor is already looking at adding more cost that's just for the record and we don't know if we're going to do that yet um so your motion we've had a second right that was the
discussion oh yeah if the motion is your motion your motion is the same I don't resolution it's a motion to bring at the August meeting we're going to bring a essentially bringing a reimbursement resolution to the council for consideration okay um
did you second that I did okay all right all those in favor say I I I opposed I motion carries now we will move on to Bushman Road sorry can I one more motion there was a couple things that were talked about that were removed that
we I wish to bring back if we agree in August just to discuss if we want to look into adding those back into the this project if we don't that's perfectly fine cuz things like generator we can get later but at least we know the cost of them today so we can look at
those so just the generator the AV package the finishings the snow melt system and the lobby front desk okay those are the four things those are what I had on my except for the front I somebody else has any they want to add let me know but those are the four things asking just to
have them itemized so we know what they are in case we want to add them back in in this project in the future the only thing I would add is again I I don't know how but we're not having a discussion she made a motion right not going to keep me from my first
am right to freedom of speech made ation do you second I am a council member and elected official as you are have a second on it okay do we need it though cuz didn't he agree to well if if you specifically want to have it back it'd be good to you
know you don't want to see those back in no I have I have U no I don't I don't have a need for that this time so how is it fiscally responsible to move forward with a 2.9 milon project and then also it going to add back is dead we are
going to move on to Bushman Road thank you and no explanation we're going to move on to Bushman Road thank you just because you hit the gavel does it mean that I need to be quiet please a second gosh what I like a second what her motion for what so you can discuss you
can discuss this is the this is the procedure I I don't understand now we're following procedure okay can we please move on to psh Road administrator chansky wow when it's convenient we follow procedure okay so we'll last discuss
Bushman Road um uh so in 2023 December 2023 we moved into phase two uh we started Phase 2 a with preliminary design uh was so parted preliminary design was phase one phase 2
a was uh RightWay acquisition uh phase 2B was going to be final design uh we had a meeting uh last discussed it on April 24th um about that had that update um from standy at WSB at that time the
council said you want to discuss again in July and get an update on the easement acquisition process before deciding whether or not to move into final design so uh Mr sand is here tonight to give you an update on the project all right uh thank you mayor
and Council for allowing me to be here tonight um I'm here to give an update as David outlined about Bushman Road easement acquisition um kind of wanted to go over the process um so you all are under an understanding of how this process works
on our end um how many times we get in front of uh individual residents uh during the process uh during the appraisal um the first meeting um and then multiple negotiation sessions after that um so the the first step of the
process is we send out well I should back up a little bit um back when we did preliminary design uh we set uh our profile and we get our construction limits which dictate um how much easement we're going to be um looking for on the Bushman Road Project um
during that process we found that the um kind of standard right of way that most cities have for roads uh being that 33 ft from Center Line was a um reasonable um amount of RightWay for this project based on the construction limits um we
prepared uh the sketch and description documents um per our scop of work um and uh after that we send out what's called an early notification letter the early notification letter uh kind of introduces the property owner to the project um if they haven't already heard about
it um it gives them uh contact information for our RightWay agent it provides them an opportunity to review um the owner's guide or their kind of know their rights handbook that were um legally obligated to give them um it uh
allows them to fill out a form a contact information form what works best for you uh email phone landline cell phone um and those have been coming back in so when we send those early notification letters we send them certified mail so that we know they got them uh we get the
little green slips back uh we did receive all those back except for one uh we had one owner that lives in Wyoming that we have to do a little bit of tracking down on um the the package was signed by a different person than um the owner was so we have to try to figure
out what was going on there so we've gotten everyone's gotten their early notification letter packets um we've got certified mail tickets back for all those um starting today and tomorrow um our RightWay agent his name is Benton will be uh calling land owners and setting up
a first meeting with uh property owners and that is to review um title looking over the staking that you guys have seen out on site and having that first interaction with property owners um on their property and reviewing the right of-way boundaries that we have staked um
out on site um and then that just gets you know the relationship kind of going between our agent and that Resident uh specifically um so then after that process um that gets you know uh that
property owner um with our rightaway agent we have appraisers um that we have hired um to also reach out to the resident and the resident has the option to visit the site um with the appraiser and talk over talk over the project um
with the appraiser also so those meetings are I think supposed to be scheduled for um the week after next so um kind of two meetings right in a row with residents one with our RightWay agent one with the appraiser um the appraisers say that the
turnaround time is going to be pretty quick on getting all the appraisals done for the work um at that time the appraisers submit it to another appraisal firm to review that appraisers appraisal um to standard appraising practices so there's two reviews of that appraisal that could go out after that
time after all the appraisals come back um we come to you the council with what's called ad just compensation memo and that is going to outline all of the properties we're looking to seek right away for um has the appraisal values who the owners are um this would most likely be in a close session that you guys get
to view that and um come out of close session and um approve the just compensation and that's when the offers get sent out via certified mail to property owners and then from there it's a negotiation process um uh our
rightaway agents work with that property owner um to come to an agreable amount of compensation uh and damages um for the uh acquiring of that easement um once we start getting some of these
coming back with agreements we would bring them back in bunches to the city council to review um and approve or um if the council is not in favor of of the dollar amount that was negotiated um then we would send our RightWay agent
back to talk more with that Resident at that time so it's kind of a back and forth that goes on um between the uh agent and the city council and the resident until there is um a sufficient agreement um by all parties involved so
um and then obviously when that um final approval is done the documents are executed and recorded at the county um um as final so um given that the appraisals are going to be out in the next few weeks here I would anticipate
over the next um I would say two to three months we're going to start seeing you know some people will be in agreement right away some we're going to have longer time of negotiation that might take you know four months five months we might be into that December timeline before we actually have
everything acquired um which is still on schedule from um a opportune bidding time for a project um so uh from an overall schedule standpoint I I we still feel pretty comfortable um uh the first
interaction kind of gives us a good taste too on how easy a negotiation is going to be um with the residents so um so that's yet to come um hopefully those a lot of those meetings get done here next week so that's kind of where we're at with the right of way
process um um one question that maybe I talked to Paul before the meeting cuz I drove Bushman Road um the Bushman property kind of caused me heartburn with the stakes you know halfway into the property um you know Paul explained it but I think it would benefit you know
the council to understand you have um Crowing County GIS avable on the screen um so the Bushman property is one of those that's platted to the center line of the roadway so the city's been operating under prescriptive easements for whenever Bushman Road got put in um
and so actually there's a a good example of a property that has fully platted dedicated RightWay right next door to the west of the bushman's um that is already 33t wide so the Bushman parcel is the one that David is going to click
on right here that is the Bushman parcel you can see that it goes to the center of the roadway right now and the parcel just to the West is that dedicated 33t platted right of way that I was talking about so those Stakes if you drive
Bushman Road right now the Blue Stakes are what we're calling permanent easement and that is 33 ft off of Center Line of the proposed Bushman roadway alignment which generally follows the existing alignment except for at the curve at the County Road here and on the
west end in ideal Township that's where we're at with right ofo acquisition um I think also in front of you tonight um as we discussed last time was our final design proposal um David
and I talked about this a little bit there is some benefit in US running final design with RightWay acquisition at the same time you know we try to set our construction limit boundaries during preliminary design and making sure that we're being conservative enough and
getting enough right away to begin with um I would say that as we get through final design if there are areas that that we can either get rid of a temporary construction easement or if we need a little more temporary construction easement that allows us an opportunity to make that adjustment while we're in
negotiations rather than going back to that Resident and saying we don't need it or sorry we need a little bit more so that's the benefit I think in running these concurrently um it's a pretty standard practice to do that um running
acquisition with final design concurrently um and from a timing standpoint you know our final design will probably take all the way to that December timeline to get plans and specs finalized and be ready for bidding any
questions question I have is what's being asked to the council tonight I just noticing in the information that staff provided there is no request for action and so part of the concern here being that without that having taken
place people that were looking at the agenda looking at the information could have logically concluded that there's no action the council's going to take tonight so I guess the question is what's the ask of the council I think
page it on page 13 it asks that the council should consider moving into the final design phase 2B which is what is the ask here for this meeting which is the amount of 187 384 well to my point I if if I have a hard time gleaning that out of all the
information that's provided I'm quite sure that any number of other people in the res in the community are going to have the same um potential question about exactly what do we have going on here tonight um again how are our taxpayer dollars again being used for a
you know $3 million project and that's been my issue from the start of this I have no problems understanding the need to improve Bushmen I think I think many people in this community see the need the issue and the problem I have is yet
again lack of time lack of conversation lack of looking at options this Council move forward lockstock and Barrel without a whole lot of interaction to a full reconstruct of Bushman which directly reflects the price take I am
quite confident that had we spent more time looking at options of somewhere between full Rec construct and something less that it would have been even nice for the residents to have understood what are
the different options the council's considering but we never arrived there and correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember us ever talking about what are the other Alternatives outside of a full reconstruct I mean Brad I think the other Alternatives and I'm the first to
admit it took me a long time to get behind Bushman um you do an overlay or you make it safe um about 3 weeks ago I rode with officer Larch um myself included it looks like these trucks are
speeding I mean it's a common complaint from residents they're not I mean we went out there everyone I thought they were well over the speed limit they weren't um but one thing I did notice and officer Lurch
uh pointed it out the way the trees are curved all the way on the North side um as part of it he said we need to follow a truck I'm thinking well why would we want to do that well as soon as we got to top of the hill there was trees in the way he
said watch it's going to shift left the truck shifted left sure enough there's another dump dump truck wow coming right towards 11 um is part of the process is that vegetation I mean those trees have
to be removed Andor trimmed cuz they're a major safety hazard on Bushmen um I can speak to that Mr Jensen so uh within the construction limits um which is within that 33t R of way we
would take the trees that are needed to be taken for construction purposes um if they're not needed to be taken in that 33t RightWay we will leave them in place unless it's the council Direction some cities and counties clear all the way to the RightWay line um but I know a lot of
residents and cities value their foliage um and trees and so um it's really a council preference um the construction limits are going to get you out a ways away from the road in general um because we're doing Mass grading which is taking
down steep hills filling in low areas and smoothing the profile out to to your point to improve that safety and so that foliage and vegetation will be moved back um a certain amount within those constuction limits uh the second part I
also rode with uh Bob from Public Works he's the plow he plows Bushman he stated that he has to plow at 2:30 a.m. to 5:30 because with all the blind spots cars I mean if people are
using that road earlier it it's dangerous um I've talked to 3/4 of the police department asked every one of them everyone says it needs to be wider so I mean I think Brad it comes down to
you know an overlay versus reconstruction and there's a reason we're still talking about it today and I've said this before it's cost I mean it's been talked about as long as I've been coming up here since the late
70s um and it's unfortunate that a community our size has to incur these costs for a collector Road I mean it it is um Grant wise we're not going to get a grant cuz it's a road to nowhere unfortunately I mean when it
comes down to you know maybe we can maybe we can apply for another one but you know getting the grant that was applied for um without land acquisition I think HT us um you know not being shovel ready HT us um and actually about
I think two weeks ago there was quite a few comments on Bushman Road on next door I was very surprised all saying why is this road the way it is um at the end of the day hopefully we
get some competitive bids um you know I never was in favor of trying to turn it into a county road I think the cost at that time was 7.3 million and That Was Then I mean that would have the city didn't have that money and the county wouldn't commit I mean I understand why
they did it to you know turn it over to the county and it's a difficult Pro you know project it's going to be controversial and at the end of the day you know the majority of that is cost and it is expensive I mean there's no if Sands or Bots um but without shaving
down those Hills having sight lines and making it safe I don't think there's anybody in White Birch 16 that drives it that wouldn't you know say we support this um well Stephen I certainly am not suggesting anything
to the counterparts counterpoints that you raised the concern I have and will continue to have is there are a lot of opportunities in terms of how you tackle a road like Bushman between just a simple overlay and making it safe I think we all would agree that the
overarching goal is to make it safe you can make that safe you can deal with vegetation needs without going through a a total and complete reconstruction of that road but there's no there's miniature freeway through largely a
residential area that that's all I'm going to say I I think I've said my piece on that I want to say thank you for taking the time to do that actually I know that took a lot of time it was quite interesting and another point that Bob made from Public Works he said these trucks you can't go
over 35 cuz it's it's just not safe um they and Bill's another one that drives that they were hauling gravel for you know reconstructing or working on some roads for white bir 16 and they said at the end of the day when they have to drive that road haul and gravel for
projects they are mentally and physically spent I mean it's dangerous you know can you do it partially I don't know how you can um I think the bolt in The Mink report and study really looked at the Alternatives and I think that's that's where you guys
made the decision to move forward with the design that you did is the bolt mink report on top of the multiple studies that have been done for 20 years on Bushman Road and relooked at and and rehashed and Bolton The Mink I think
looked at that road four or five times we had done right well that was something that we looked at was the County Highway and a lot of public input was no we don't want that we don't need that and so that's where the council withdrew from that that and and our
partners to the West nor West didn't want to continue with it as well so we definitely pulled them pulled away from from that lack of County commitment it just it wasn't paning out for that um and like I say community input as well well and I think ran chat too I mean
that just got abandoned and due to economy but I mean that road is in rough shape mhm um too you know unfortunately Akerson and you know going into pequot's going to stay the same but I mean it's incredibly dangerous um and you know
it's at the end of the day you know we're building reconstructing this collector road but it does you know the high amount of you know dump trucks the side dumps because the Crowing County round about there in three and four it
was incredible how many trucks that day when I met officer Larch um I saw him coming down 11 and you know heading down towards Bushman um you know when they have projects it's busy it's incredibly busy and it's all day so and we'll never
know how we can make that road safe and still not spend $3 million because we didn't specifically have any conversations related to that or along those lines zero studies are fine you know evaluations are
great um what you get from Engineers are important but there are a lot of there's a lot of room between again just simply going through and doing nothing safety-wise and a complete and utter tear up and reconstructed that road um I
unfortunately I I kind of view that and its current trajectory is you know being the black eye in in that area it's going to look completely out of place I'm going to make a motion to move into the final design phase 2B for the total
of 187 384 for Bushman I'll second any other discussion the point uh clearly I'm going to be voting no on this but it's not to do with anything related to the need I see the need I understand the safety concerns I don't see how this road
should cost the taxpayers $3 million I guess you know to that point Too part of my struggle with Bushman croing county has a local option sales tax they're allowed to use that for roads cities are not so we
unfortunately don't have that as an option there are grants unfortunately we didn't get the grant well we we did talk about we could apply for it next year apply well it it depends if it's available yeah I mean we can apply there's do anything in the last session
to find that program so sometimes mind has additional money set aside for that program that yeah I mean if we if there is something absolutely apply for we have nothing to lose we'll be in a better position too but there's just you know not means um other than the cities
that have these roads that besides huh besides special assessments that's your only real but for a collector Road like that you can't special assess so it it it is frustrating I don't disagree Brad but yeah and I agree it's unfortunately it was Soo expensive to turn it over to
the county because that was kind of the direction I'd went because I didn't want to have to try to put it into a CIP and continue to pay for it every year thereafter once it's fixed so that's that's well and you being white bird 16 you know that was another comment when
they were fixing roads there making that left turn on a Bushman I mean it's dangerous cuz there's a blind spot um you know it's a tough project um at the end of the day that's why it was talked about for 20 years well and you know
just to reiterate our estimate right now was a 30% um with a lot of contingency because we're at a 30% level um if we bid in a competitive environment December January um the the real likelihood is
that those costs are are going to come down um just given the the high level estimate we're at we like to be on the safe side right which is I'd rather have you guys on the safe side the conservative side anyway so all right any other discussion and not having access to the additional revenue streams
that Steve mentioned um again in my mind should every equal more time more conversation how do we tighten the pur strings while still making that road safe and functional all right all those in favor say I I I I opposed I motion carries
thank you thank you all right so we'll go ahead and move on to the CIP thank you madam mayor M of the council so this is a project I think I've been mentioning for while something
that's been on the uh goal list to get done is to get uh I'm calling this is the equip I call this the equipment CIP for the city uh so right now as it stands well essentially what we do we go by Year bye basis what do we need this year um and we budget it
um defect of that is some years you might have as we're going to see as I go through this you know a small amount you need and then next year is a big amount um and then you have to figure out again we how are we funding it cash on hand are using Levy dollars and then if you're using Levy obviously your Levy
starts to bounce around because one year you might have only had you know $60,000 in capital you had to do the next you had 400,000 and you have that bounce around so what we've produced again this is our still working draft um it's something that we will be finalizing
over the weeks to come as we go through um the budget process I think we were at a very good comfortable um I think in my memo I said 75% this might actually be closer to 80 or 90% I think we got pretty much all the big items in here um what we'll be doing over the weeks to
come is is really just honing it down but what I want to do tonight is just kind of get it in front of you any immediate questions you have and we'll discuss even more detail as we get into discuss preliminary uh budget as well so what this document does um it's actually
borrowed Mr Sandy made a comment earlier oh I think I've seen that spreadsheet before uh part of the meeting um actually borrowed this from the city of Brainard um this is a CIP that they get a lot of praise for um and so took that simplified it down to what we will have
in Breezy Point um but I think it sums it up very well so I'm going to get to the summary page really quick um I'll get to that in just a minute I just want to go through essentially we've broken it down into essentially what six buckets um each sheet you have I have a
tab up here um you have City Hall we're calling General so that's just kind of like the building down here in expenditures you've seen we have things like council chambers community room Library multi-purpose room City Hall sign um those are future
expenditures um that we anticipate in the future big Capital items so that's also I want to talk about here we're talking about Capital items we're thinking things that are on a replacement rotation things that are not you know 50 bucks 100 bucks those bigger
multi thousand items so then what we do is look at okay based off of its current condition when do we believe it's going to be replaced what's the life cycle of that piece of equipment and how much do we think it's going to be replaced it and then we place it on that year um so we have city um
Administration you go to admin side um admin side is the one area where you might say things that aren't well you might say technically equipment but there are things again that are multi many thousands of dollars and are on a rotation so for example in here comprehensive plans zoning code Cod City
codification wage studies those are things let's do the zoning code comp plan and Z city code codification ideally what you want to do again to make those plans living is to be looking at them I think the best best
practice to say every about every five years spend some time to soft look at something make sure it's still up to date if we've gone through something like a pandemic it's getting addressed how has the community changed has something happened that has changed the community that we need to change our
comprehensive plan once the comprehensive plan's done you look at okay do done the zoning code are there's any part of the zoning code that needs to be updated to match the comprehensive plan is there something in the market that has changed that we should look at our zoning code and then once that's done it's okay we should look at the
city code and Rec codify the code so you kind of see here that's why it's you know one year's comp plan next year's zoning code next year's code codification and doing that essentially like every fiveish years by doing that what you also avoid is having to do what
we're doing what we have just started that process of an 18-month overhaul you avoid having to do big overhauls because you're regularly looking at your code um so that's while not an equipment piece it's a multi thousand thing that
we should be doing regularly um software things like that um Furniture those are things we look at what are what are things we do regularly multi thousand what year to do it how much uh same thing with it looking at
our equipment um when it comes to an it what you'll find out here we're focusing mainly here on Hardware software most of our software um as we talked about in budget we talked about pre like last year they are things that are on like say a subscription type of thing we're not going to include the subscription
here we include that as part just part of a general operating budget this is kind of the the hard the hardware the thing that's uh you know buying a laptop not the 3 the Microsoft 365 subscription but the actual laptop itself things like
that uh police that's we get the vehicles some of their equipment all in here um you'll see there's some things in here again um Firearms obviously we just updated those are are up are got new ones so
again those are going to be further out you don't see taser in here because as we discussed last year's part of the budget when we budget for new tasers this year the mark things are changing and whoever thought tasers would be a subscription service but they are now um so that's why you don't have things like that in
there um Parks uh we currently there aren't really any specific specific items right now um what we've just done for parks and again this can be broken out is kind of a bucket um that's what we did this past year you kind of gave him a bucket so
for now we just kind of put a bucket about money that can be obviously a discussion if you want to break it out into specifics items of parks um you know playgrounds be specific or if you want to leave it more vague again these are things that we can discuss as we
hone this um I do want to say this document point the idea of cips is they are truly living documents They do change from time to time um I use an example someone recently um I think you know croing counties CIP which is very
very similar obviously on a bigger scale I think they've done I think I've seen on their agendas three or four CIP amendments just this year so things do change sometimes it's because something came up we want to shift a vehicle up a year because we need a replacement so
we'll shift something back things like that public works again you got you know all of their equipment I use an I'll use an example of something that already shifted I know when Joe was um doing his being a comment on um the skid steer is
was scheduled to be replaced sooner um I think in like this year or is it next year I think neither 2025 or 2026 and the tul cat was scheduled to be replaced in 2027 or something like that and but based off of you might have seen in the
um brief we've been having to do a lot of maintenance on the tool cat so Joel's opinion was skid steer's in decent shape let's move the skid steer two years and move the move the tool cat up and just replace that and stop putting money into
constantly maintaining it you know you're it's when it's money to to fix it which also means we don't have it all of that jazz so that's where things can be moved around throughout the life of this um so you have all of these green tabs down here on mine um they're
different pages for yours those are kind of essentially the different departments when you move it into the summary page which is the first page you have this is where it all comes together okay so the idea of the CIP here is this so if you look on this expenditure line right
here this is kind of the individual year right now what we're doing is going okay we need 476 and 25 and then in 2026 we budget 370 and then 2027 we budget 322 and it goes like this expenditures do this which also means that affects your
Levy in the same manner the benefit of a CIP like this is this top number here is right now as it sits right now I have a number of 292,000 you can budget
essentially 292 a year and it doesn't have to change I'm not saying it will never change we'll talk about where times it might go up or even opportunities to maybe even lower it um but it kind of stays level so you're doing you know 292 in the budget every
single year and then we're looking at General operating General operating tends to move a lot less so then you have this opportunity of when you go year to year you know little smaller Levy adjustments and not the bigger
adjustments that happen because of capital so that's the idea there so you're looking at again Top Line versus the expenditure line this cash balance line um how did we get to nine how did David how did you get to 9
292 right now that comes with this cash balance line essentially what you do but by also doing this in this manner you can be a cash pay so everything it's pay as you go we don't have to be bonding for dump trucks or anything like that we can just cash pay
everything right now I have it in this format having a beginning cash on hand of a million dollars I just put a million dollars in there right we seed it with a million you'll see you have soting Surplus minus the
expenditures plus that you know you million dollar yeah million dollar add 292 minus 476 the end of the year with $815 506 okay well that becomes your new cash balance for the next year and you go along down the line what you need to do
is make sure this line stays positive as you can see you know we start a million after 2025 it's 815 it goes down down down up a little down a little down down down you know one year might go down to
28 but then it goes back up to 110 207 down to 22 we try to keep it even right we want to make sure no year is in a deficit if it's if a year is in a deficit that means we don't have money to do those projects okay so what I do is I look at okay what is roughly the
lowest number we can get up here and keep everything even some things we also do I've done a little bit is shift things around so we go okay this this piece of equipment has an 8year lifespan but we've got a lot of projects going in
2035 can we kick a project a year you know you look at you know can we shift a project one year again to help that get down keep that number down um so we've done that a little bit already of going well this should be an 8-year project but it can be a nine-year project um to
help keep this number down so that's how this works um the document you'll say it says 20 years I do realize uh 2025 to 2045 is actually 21 years um but I liked having end in
2045 so I just kept it for now um and then you just you can just keep going in kind of in perpetuity um generally when you're looking at this you're really looking at your first five years are your main what you're looking at um
because trying to look five years in the more than 5 years ago we're looking 21 years into the future things can change what generally you can do is go the 5 years and then maybe in 2030 we take a look at it and go well where are we at
right now we estimated that after you know beginning in 2030 we'll have a cash balance of [Music] $459,500 hero um I don't like to put put that in there just because you never know and sometimes we don't sell an asset for example when we've taken an an
old old Squad from PD instead of selling it transferred it to public works for them to use um so sometimes a replacement is more of a transfer of a project we don't a piece of equipment we don't necessarily sell it and sometimes we don't know what exactly we're going
to get so um what you could end up doing and also we don't put any grants in here we're always going to pursue grants when we have the opportunity but you don't want to you know assume a grant so say you know this year in 2025 we're at right now 476
494 you know we get say 20 you know between sale of assets and grants I'm just going to put in there just 50,000 well now the cash balance is $50,000 more that affects the whole the
whole plan down the line where if you ended up doing that and also we also can experience is maybe costs are less than anticipated sometimes costs are more okay if we were to say I'm just going to put some numbers in here
right okay and we'll say nothing for 2029 so essentially we' we've gained $90,000 more than anticipated we might be able to in 20209 we might be able to actually so
Sor in 20230 lowerer it we might be able to go we actually have a greater cash balance than we originally planned after 5 years maybe we can consider low lowering the capital Levy a little bit you know or if it goes the other way around where costs have
been higher than anticipated we haven't been able to get other forms of Revenue maybe it's got to go up a little bit so we're looking 20 years in advance but we're kind of going five I would recommend five years at a time so
that's how that works so it's not necessarily 292 in perpetuity but again it's as we go we can we we can make Minor Adjustments instead of large adjustments any questions on the
formatting of this plan right now I think this looks really good so far yeah looks it reminds me of the the one for the fire district so yes nice I'm familiar with it a little bit already the structure of it but I like it so thank you for all the work you
guys have done yeah good job you guys and you so again this isn't in its final form we're going to be so we're going to be working on it um throughout the budget process um I think the goal here is that to implement it as part of the 2025
budget um so right now I think it's mostly done it's just going to be um um figuring out numbers one of the things I do want to I'm going to put in your ear now now if you want to have a little bit discussion about it you can um otherwise just for thinking for discussions in the coming weeks is one of the things that
this has is this is all anticipating 202 these are essentially using 2024 numbers um cities approach that differently some cities they say well put it in current current year numbers for the entire plan and again we'll look
at it as we go and make adjustments as we need to if you know costs end up coming in higher then we'll just adjust it other cities put in an inflation Factor they go well instead of having to constantly be looking at an adjusting
the levy if necessarily why don't we just put in a certain percentage factor into all the costs every single year and then just put that Implement that into the levy that's an approach you can take too um so just something to think about
of what kind of approach you might prefer whether just to keep things in 2024 and adjust as needed or if you want to put in there some kind of inflation Factor um what inflation Factor you put in there is really up to you um is it 1%
2% 3% 5% you know it's up to what what are you comfortable with it does would have obviously impacts onto what the what the levy then has to be the higher the higher inflation Factor you put into it obviously the higher the levy is going to have to be to support it so
just something to think about uh I know the city of Brainard again this is kind of their format they don't put an inflation factor in and they just make adjustments as they need other communities they they put that inflation factor in I had of curiosity since you worked for brainer for several years how
often are they adjusting the inflation factor I mean is it every couple years yeah so they don't do an inflation Factor but so what they but I mean when do they I mean how often have they had to change the levy change the levy essentially what they do is as part of the budget every year they go they bring the Capital plan up and they say
Obviously you know this is what's planned for this year and what they do is they again they'll put in there after the year's done any sale of assets any additional what was the actual costs and then if they start if a year starts to go to a deficit it's kind of I
think how they pretty much do it is they wait if anything down here goes into a deficit then we've got to have a discussion so they kind of go place on that as long as we're good they leave it there if a year goes if a year goes into a deficit then they have a discussion of
how do we address the deficit are we moving equipment um or are we increasing the levy so that's how they kind of ative yeah so if any if any specific year if at the end of a year essentially there's a negative balance well we can't
have a negative balance then they go Okay so we've either got to push a project later into the plan remove either push a piece of equipment remove a piece of equipment or increase the we didn't we didn't put inflation Into the Fire District plan
did we no okay I didn't think so it was a discussion but I think we decided not to do that yeah so that's just something to also kind of be thinking about um as you digest this um obviously we kind of talked about already funding how would the funding
work for something like this um again with my example here I just used a million dollars to start with um that would lead to a recommend I'm calling the recommended capital l of 292 you can always go higher if you'd wanted but 292 is kind of the right now the lowest you
can go comfortably and have every every year and its current format um be funded sufficiently when you look at the current budget so I went into the current budget obviously we have that 572 we always talk about here um in 2024 there was an additional
120 that we were dedicating towards Capital especially specifically equipment it was 10,000 for that we've been transferring from Parks every year 50 from public works and then we had 60 this year in in capital in the general
fund for PD and that was the annual Squad well all of those things are now reflected in this plan so you also have that 120 so what I would say is you take the 192 first thing you want to do is subtract the 120 that's already there okay now you're at okay we need we need
to make up 100 another 172,000 if you took that out of that existing 57 2 you still have 400,000 that you can use for a city hall Bond a Bushman Bond already built in the lbby so pretty much what I'm showing you here
is if you were to say even if you were to se it at just a million dollars um you wouldn't necessarily need to increase the levy to fund this plan and its current project again I want to say to for this if you start adding
things on top of that again money is finite so if you add City Hall on top of that Bushman on top of that depending on how you fund everything um but I just wanted to show that's a way of how you would fund that is you know without having to add 17 you
don't necessarily need to add $172,000 in the budget to fund this is what I'm getting at is is I would you would build I I suppose eventually it probably wouldn't change this much because that would be like years out but you would build like a a renovated City
Hall into the CIP yeah so right now this CIP does not have any uh does it oh it doesn't so this this current this plan is not currently have facilities in it okay um one of the big reasons was discussion it was we're still kind of up in the air of what we
were doing with City Hall um so we had no facilities is not built into this at this time so not the police police no building or the maintenance building or we've been we have a facility maintenance budget in the
operating budget for our facilities right now like we upped the public safety building a couple years ago to have to be able to be more proactive okay but we don't currently have it in this plan we just started right now we're we're just focusing on equipment all right you can always we can always
add it again this is a living document you can add things um you know there might be things that we do down the road realize hey we need to add something or maybe there's even opportunity going hey we don't need that thing we can remove it from the plan again you would amend
it um how I see this happening is when the council at the end of um eventually hopefully approves this when we get to a final version of this plan if we ever needed to make an amendment what we would do is we would come before the council say we would like to request to
make an amendment to the capital plan show you tell you what that plan what that amendment is why we need the amendment um what the cost of that item is and how we're going to implement it into the plan whether it's well we're going to swap it out for a different
different uh item U maybe it's something that's already in the plan again we had a piece of equipment that was scheduled two years down the road we want to move that up and we're going to shove another one back there would be kind of an amendment process where we come before you say this is the amendment we want to
make and then the council gets St and ultimately make the decision of whether or not to to uh make that Amendment to the plan David how does um any additional tax levy need to support this plan work on the equipment side when some of the
equipment is arguably being used for the city sewer operations is that tax levy going to support the entire cost of that or are there some plan to come on so right now we just kind of put everything in here to that point again as we're as we're finalizing and working through the
details um we can have we'll definitely break out equipment and say that's a sewer piece of equipment and we can take that out of here um right now this would be kind of full general fund I guess you would argue um um but as we right now we
were like let's get everything in here what would the number be and then as we we can definitely go through specifically the Public Works equipment and go you know that's a that's a sewer equipment let's remove that and that's we can create a separate Capital plan
for Enterprise fund equipment and the council member Ball's point I I would absolutely support the inclusion of facilities in here um I think most people would be surprised the number of actual facilities or structures right that are part of City
operations um I could almost make and maybe others could as well uh in argument that there's higher priority needs on the public work side uh as far as facilities go than anywhere else in the in the city so I would really
support the inclusion of um those Capital facilities needs I would agree and if we're going to do it let's have everything in there y I agree I I agree too makes sense okay excellent so again that's I just want to get this in front of you get some of that initial feedback and
we'll continue to discuss it um as we work through um the budget process here um starting um just a couple weeks here perfect thank you that's all we got for this evening all right uh the last thing um I wanted to bring up so last
year we um approved $500 for night night to night um happy dancing turtle was able to attend um last year for the butterfly release and they had a table I don't did you go you went last year didn't you did
anyone go I was I was parking cars time too it was actually the biggest attendance I believe right yes it and one of the things was that we advertised was happy Dancy turtle with was going to be there but they can't make it this year and I don't want to not have
anything for the kids to do so I just wanted to come and ask you guys maybe to um approve some funds just to get some of the coloring stuff and other things that the kids were doing at the table um I'm happy to get that stuff set it up um
and then obviously take it down and actually like why we're talking about it you know one of the things about night to night we didn't ask for funds yet and we can't do like the guy who was singing with the guitar last year so there's a couple things even from night to night that we do need a
little bit of funds for if we were going to move forward so um I guess what are you guys's thoughts on allocating again so what is the ask I hear you say that there is money
committed already anticipating certain activities and all that those activities aren't occurring are the money no I mean I think maybe like $100 or something thing to the butterfly release um if we're not able to do that then I will just donate it myself um purchase it and
donate it myself um with the night to you night I think $100 is perfectly fine I mean to put towards butterfly release I don't have an issue with that personally but yeah I don't have an issue the night to unite my only question is I mean that's kind of we
could probably dep in AUST yeah I mean chief sandel will have input on what it is you know he needs I mean that's the police department's baby um well we supplied the music last year um Sandy did get that um but I mean we don't have
to I'm just it's just that one not on the agenda so I would prefer to just wait if we can put on the August agenda if nobody Minds we can no problem I just was allocating funds for night two night in the August meeting I will say that night two night is the day after the council meeting is it and that's why too I would have
brought this I was thinking it was later in the did not pay for the music last year yeah well Sandy paid it out of pocket and it was like $250 I didn't realize that and the face painter I think and then um I had got some things for the kids too last year
that we paid for but yes Andy did pay stuff out of her pocket I mean can we talk about it now huh the night two night like fun sport I I would say cuz it was not on the agenda and this is a special meeting I would say I would it's kind of what I was told earlier I would keep to the butterfly release yeah
that's fine that's fine I'm just letting you guys know and considering the amount of money the council spent tonight I don't see how $100 should be an issue I would hope not but well then I would question why is it even in front of the
conso um because then I would be paying it out of pocket um so I'm not really sure I guess as long as we're talking the butterfly release you know one other comment I have is the Public Works has
been very busy this week they've basically spent the entire week out there the cemetery looks incredible they they do an excellent job you know year round um but um need to acknowledge you know the job that they do on a continual
basis yes they do agreed so do I have a motion then to approve $100 for supplies I'll make that motion okay 5 a seconds I'll second any other
discussion all those in favor say I I opposed motion carries all right do I have a motion to adjourn so moved all right any discussion all in favor say I I opposed motion carries