with the call to order. This is the Planning Commission Board of Adjustments on Tuesday, August 12th, 2025. Uh we're starting here at 6:30 p.m. And we'll kick it off with the pledge of allegiance. The flag is off to the side,
so if we can all rise. I pledge the allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> Thank you. >> And we'll go ahead with a roll call. Uh Jerry, would you please do us the honors? >> Uh Zeren >> here. >> Ty absent. Weaver >> here. Brisbane >> here, >> here.
>> Thank you much. And then we're going to start with the open forum. Uh the open forum is designed for anybody who would like to speak on a topic that is not currently on the agenda. We do have um public input for each of the items on the agenda. So if there's something that isn't there, please approach the podium,
state your name and address, and share with us. Well, I'm not seeing anyone approach, so we'll go ahead. Um, we're going to close the open form, but I do want to welcome our new city administrator. Uh, Ally, this is your first meeting with us for
planning and zoning. So, I want to say welcome. >> Thank you. >> And then Jerry has also officially, I believe, um, now you're you're cringing, but he has officially agreed to stay on with us for uh the planning and zoning
position here, too. So, thank you both. Next item up, um, we'll close the open forum and we'll move on to approval of the June 10th, 2025 minutes. Do we have a motion to approve or any changes? >> So moved. >> We have a motion. Do we have a second?
>> Second. >> We have a second. All in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? Motion approved. Uh we'll move on to item number six which is a public hearing for the conditional use application C250002 White Birch Incorporated to construct a
social club and golf cart storage structures the location existing on traditional golf course. So we are going to open it up first with the uh public hearing and we'll start with a applicant presentation. So if you could approach the podium, state your name, address and
present to us the application. Good evening, Madam Chair, Commission. I'm David Lander. David Lander, uh, representing Whitebird, Inc. Um, my address is 7374
Fairway Lane, Breezy Point, Minnesota. Um, we thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight about this uh proposal and uh hopefully I can have Jerry or somebody who's running the uh computer
here go through the slides as we go through it. So, if you could forward to um probably the project in its entirety right there. >> Oh, she's doing it. Okay. Yeah, that would Yeah, could probably
go. Yeah, we can start there. So, the main purpose of the conditional use permit is for allowing the clubhouse or social club uh whatever people want to uh call that um and the
parking associated with it. the entrance off of Dove Street and County Road 4. Um, and then above that is the design for the overall for the course. So, with that in mind, I'm just going to kind of start off with um we had submitted the
conditional use permit to the city, which is um of record, and and along with that was a concept statement, and I'm just going to go through the concept statement because that sort of outlines um the pieces of all the pieces that are
part of this application. So, the first thing is there's a building being planned. It's about 6,600 square ft with three levels. um includes both indoor and outdoor occupancy of seating of about 216 uh individuals. It it could host a vi
variety of social events uh and it's a significant investment to the city in this location. The facility will serve have service with a bar restaurant. It will provide service um for the two golf courses, the one that uh is being built,
the short course as well as the one on the west side of County Road 4. Um in addition, we're looking at a putting course and some pickle ball courts in the south end of the parking. um and the putting and sort of practice
green down on the very south end of the property um off of the parking. Additionally, uh as was stated in the um opening, there's some golf cart barns that will be constructed. One is just
off to the right side of that circle there where the driving entrance is to the parking. and that'll house the golf carts that will be used for the uh properties on the west side of uh County Road 4. And then there's a another golf
barn uh associated with the building that's up in the footprint to the north of the circle um sort of outlined up in that up in that area. Both those will house golf carts for their associated uses. The one to the north by the
clubhouse will serve the the short course. The one below will serve the course on the west side of county road four. Um landscaping. There'll be a variety of BMS um and screening on on the parking area um so
that when people are parking their lights and things in the evening if they're departing in the evening or coming in in the evening um will not distract or shine on adjacent properties. Um landscaping features will be similar to other projects in the resort such as Antlers and Deacons
Lodge. Um the various uh residential projects that the develop the developer has built in the past. Um there's a shared carve path that'll be used by both the uh project as well as uh it will be available to the public to use and
that's running on the north side of the driveway. There's a golf cart path that's shaded that actually runs from Dove Street all the way east and then loops back up and ties into the existing road system that's to the north
there. So, that'll be available to be used as a pathway through that neighborhood. The golf course will have lighting plan associated with it and we'll get into discussing more about that. Um, and it's only for the short course that's north
of the clubhouse. So, there's no lighting being planned any place else other than just on the north side of that roadway system that you see there where the parking is going um to the north. Um, it's it's a little bit complicated
on how it exactly works. And Eric Hart, the general manager of the resort, is here, and I'll have him describe to you in more detail when we get to that when we get to the end of this uh my presentation. He can sort of jump in and talk to you more specifically about some
of the rationale behind the golf design, you know, why this property is unique and some of the lighting features. the access to the parking and and so forth will be built um as a intersection
with Dove Street and County Road 4. And we've had various communications and meetings with the county highway department and this is their preferred location. Um, in conjunction with that, there will be a right turn lane that will be required to be built and they've
submitted a letter in the record as to the rationale behind um how that intersection would function and and what the needs are. So, the cart path and a pedestrian path will be on the north side of the intersection pretty close to where it is except it
won't come across at a diagonal. It'll just come straight across um to be more safe. And then we'll have to tie in our cart paths to join with that to make it to make it all work. The vehicular parking for the project is
is laid out there as you see and it's actually been designed to accommodate um the social club, the requirements for the social club, um golf course, pickle ball, employee parking, and handicap. So, it's been it's been
designed to be to accommodate all of all the needs for the parking. Um, storm drainage. Most of the storm drainage for the golf course and the clubhouse will all be to the north and will stay on the property pretty much like it is now. There's enough
depressions and water features that'll be built into this that they will capture the storm water. The parking lot and the driveway system. There's again enough vacant land uh near and around that that we will be able to develop but retention
uh detention areas for storm water to keep everything on the property and protect um any storm water leaving the site. Sewer and water. The sewer will be a connection um to the existing municipal system and
it will likely be directionally bored to a manhole that sits just to the northeast here um which the details of that need to be worked out with um the city here and the city engineer. Um there's a a wetland on the property
which sits on the north edge and that has been delineated and will not be disturbed actually become part of the components and design of the course. Any demolition that occurs will be that of which exists out there now. So, for
instance, um there will be a variety of trees, the existing cart paths, um the tennis courts, eventually the old clubhouse will um will be removed and those sorts of
things. So, anything that's associated with a course will will change and everything that's coming in will be new. Um and then um not part of this application, but the land we've protected a spot where the existing
clubhouse is possibly for future housing up in that location. Otherwise, there's no plans for additional housing in the areas that we've currently illustrated. So maybe you could go back one and just kind of go to the whole picture of the
property, Deb, if you could. >> I think it was back one. Yep, that's the one. So that sort of shows the whole piece of property. The entry gates are down on the left hand side where the resort entry gates are. Uh, and you're coming down
Breezy Point Drive and then the access into the clubhouse drive on the very top side of the sheet there. Um, so it's sort of Kittywas north is facing to the left. So that's the whole picture. So,
the clubhouse sits pretty much where the tennis courts are, just a little bit off to the south of them. And then everything from the clubhouse to the north will be uh changed uh to mod and be modified to fit the layout of the new
course. So, that's in a nutshell what we're uh what we're talking about. And with that, I'm going to just introduce Eric Hart, the GM from the resort, and he can maybe go over some
specific details. [Applause] One of the Sorry, I'm Eric Hart, uh, general manager of Breezy Point Resort. One of the great things of working with David is he asks a lot of questions. And one of the great things of working with
Jerry has been Jerry gives us a lot of answers, but he also sends a lot of questions back our ways. And so we've been doing a lot of research and doing a lot with that map. Are you able to go to that overall map that you just had up the back one? No, back two. That one
right there. Um the architect for the golf course was just here last week and uh he's done a lot of golf courses around the country and one of the things that he always emphasizes is spacing. Um he's all he's very focused on what they
call shot dispersion. And what shot dispersion is it's safety circles that they put around all the holes uh the perimeter of the course, anything near houses and anything near any of the greens. And what they do with that is
they try and create natural barriers uh anywhere where there are houses anywhere um of as many feet as possible so that the any sort of disturbance whatsoever is uh minimal in those spots. And as you
can see on the south end of the property, which is everything to the right of the parking lot down there, we left as much space down there as possible natural all the way around um the edge so that any homes that are in
that area uh won't have any land disturbed right in their backyard. Uh we know when we had the meeting at the resort and uh had 70 uh of our neighbors show up for that that that was something that was very important to them. That is something that the architect always
emphasizes which we appreciate. Um but with the shot dispersions, what he's done is he's created these circles which I'm happy to share with anybody and show anybody afterwards. I don't have it on that, but on this chart right here, it
shows you where every single hole is on his map and how much clearance was given so that balls don't end up out on the highways or in neighbors yards or anything like that. And they moved all the holes accordingly to create those zones. Uh that was done for safety
purposes as well. I know David mentioned one thing in working with the county. Something that the county had asked us to do was to narrow down our uh our crossings and on the where we used to have the two diagonal crossings that slid across the road there. Uh we now
have it down to a single one which comes straight off of a cart path going straight across the road which we think will greatly help out uh both traffic and safety in that area. So I know those were things that were were emphasized there. Um David had mentioned the
parking structures for the cart barns. Both of them are less than uh 30 by 50 in size. So both of them are small uh cart buildings only intended to uh store 24 carts approximately in each. So one
of them is a one-story and the other one is a one and a half story building. So nothing that's really a uh a large building by any means. Um, I'm happy to answer any questions that uh the panel may have or that anyone may have for me
in relation to anything David brought up >> with the cart storage. Is it similar to what you have now um size-wise? >> So, where the carts are right now? They're they're kind of scattered all over.
They've been on the tennis courts um all winter long. they were just left out there. We are getting new carts and new GPS systems in and we don't want to leave those outside. So, we're just trying to protect them a little. Technically, it's a smaller storage area than what we had before, but uh using
maximum efficiency for space. >> Perfect. Based on that diagram, do you think that this is going to keep balls um more in the golf course and currently even? >> Definitely. Um, currently we have four golf holes that are well outside of the
safety zones that the architect K when he came up and did it. Um, we have four four holes where they would say that there's a good chance 30% of shots have the capacity to reach the road from where they're at right now. Um, what the architects always base everything on is
a 12 degree shot angle off the T- box and a 16 degree shot angle off the T- box. The 12 degree captures 92% of all golf shots. The 16 degree captures 98% of all golf shots. There's always some people who can manage to hit terrible
golf shots that go outside of those circles, but uh for the most part, that's where they run. Four of our golf holes right now put the road uh in jeopardy for those shots. We're eliminating all of those and pulling all of them back. So, we estimate that
several hundred fewer golf balls will be coming near near a road uh with the new plan. >> So, the kids that are picking it up will be very disappointed >> unless they run across the street and grab them from our side of the street. >> Does anyone here on the commission have
questions? >> So, there's going to be two cart bars then. Yes. Uh so one uh as David mentioned, one is for the new course exclusively. It'll have our uh newest carts uh for that course and then the
one for across the road. Uh one of the things that we really wanted to do is right now we have heavy traffic that heads from all angles from all over the neighborhood across the golf course and we tried to streamline that all to one place. One for safety. Uh we plan to
have a perimeter fence all the way around the outside which hopefully will keep fewer people from just flying out onto the road as they do right now and fewer people from getting hit by golf balls or almost hit by golf balls as they streak across the course. By putting everybody on that 12t wide cart
path that goes across there, uh we can have up to three rows of traffic going along there safely. So we can have walkers and cart riders driving personal carts and such across there with no safety issues. >> Can you briefly touch on the lighting plan? >> Yes.
>> Yeah. Um so for those of you who have already heard me, I apologize for uh the redundancy of some of this. So what we are doing with the lights whenever the lights are established is we are using what we call uh LED directional
lighting. And what LED directional lighting in today's technology is is it's lined lighting to where when it shines wherever it shines there's a line that goes across and everything on this side is dark and everything on that side is light. All of them are from an
elevation so that they're pointed down and not straight across which would be contrary to any baseball, tennis, pickle ball, anything like that. All of those are set up for maximum circular exposure. These are set up for minimum
circular exposure and maximum pointed uh lighting. So those the higher we can get those light beams and the more downward they're pointed, the less outward the the lights shine. We intend to have one large one around each of our 12 green
structures that are out there pointed down and then lighting just around the tea box is where people will be teeing off from uh at night. >> Is there going to be pickle ball at night also till 11? >> We do not intend to have the pickle ball
courts lit. They are at the far south end of the property. So, our because the lighting of the natural light of the day throughout the summer already goes till 9:30 or so, we don't intend to have anybody playing after dark on the pickle ball courts.
>> Do you have a >> Um, the pickle ball will be available from the time the clubhouse opens because they'll have to come to the clubhouse to check out. Uh, there will be a lock on each of the gates, so they'll have to come get a key for the pickle ball court that they want to play. So, it wouldn't whenever the
clubhouse opens, whether it's 7 a.m., 8 a.m., or whatever, they would be able to be out there. But, uh, we have four tennis courts out there right now. Uh, no different than what would be there before. And at least during the summer,
we haven't had anyone out there before 9:00 a.m. So, we don't anticipate to have a rush of people playing pickle ball early in the morning. >> How about the noise? >> We're not at answering questions from the audience yet. The public Um because they're not on the mic, we can't hear. Yep. >> So, we don't know.
>> No, no problem. >> Yep. Okay. No problem. >> Uh how early do you anticipate starting for the lighting for the golf carts? >> The lighting >> uh the lighting wouldn't come on until basically sunset. Okay. >> So,
one of the things that uh that people hear when they hear about the lights is they think the lights are just going to be on all the time, but we're looking at a maximum window of 2 and 1/2 hours of lighting on any given day. So the longest period of time that it might be on would be for two and a half hours on
a day and this is over a 100 days of a of a season basically. So >> any other questions from the commission thank you Eric. Thank you David. We will move on to the staff review. Uh we'll have kind of two components of
this. Uh we'll start with Jerry's presentation. >> Uh okay. Uh again, this is conditional use permit application C250002. The applicant is White Birch, Inc. Uh
the address of the property is 30072 Clubhouse Road. Um the zoning of the property is Resode Commercial. The applicable city code is 153.039. 039
resort commercial. Uh the applicant is proposing to construct social club building and support facilities in conjunction with the rehabilitation of the traditional golf course. Um this
is all on the east side of County Road 4. Uh it doesn't uh have anything to do with the west side of County Road 4. Um the property again is zone resort commercial. The property is currently
utilized as a golf course service from an existing clubhouse located at 300072 clubhouse lane. Upon review of the conditional use application, the commission needs to consider the the findings as required in
section 153.119E. In review, the commission should state whether or not the finding is acceptable towards granting the CUP if applicable. Following findings must be met. The use or the development is an appropriate
conditional use and land use zoned. The property is zoned RC and the request is appropriate under section 153.039. The use or the development with conditions conforms to the comp comprehensive land use plan. The use
with conditions is compatible with the existing neighborhood and the use with conditions will not be injurous to the public health, safety, welfare, decency, order, comfort, convenience, appearance or prosperity of the city. I'm reading that from the directly from the code.
So, it isn't something that I made up. Um, the following must be considered. The conditional use should not be injurous again to the use and enjoyment of the property. Conditional use will not impede the normal and orderly development and improvement of
surrounding vacant properties. Conditional use will not create excessive additional requirements at public cost for public facilities and services. It will not be detrimental to the economic welfare of the community. The use does
not require any additional public infrastructure. The use will promote and preserve the northward's character. Conditional use will have vehicular vehicular approaches to the property which are so designed as not to create
traffic congestion or interference with the property surrounding proposed use in keeping with the residential character of the unit of the neighborhood and the resort commercial character of the neighborhood. The adequate measures have been taken to
provide sufficient off- streetet parking. uh adequate measures have been taken or will be taken to preserve control offensive odors, fumes, dust, noise, vibration, etc. Conditional use will not result in the destruction, loss or
damage of natural scenic or historic historic features. U the conditional use will promote the prevention and control of pollution of the ground and surface waters including sedimentation and control of nutrients.
The uh proposed use is in keeping with the resort commercial character of the neighborhood and the resort and the residential character of the neighborhood to the south. Applicant has filed the appropriate application for the cup and paid the appropriate fee.
Public notice of the conditional hearing was published in the newspaper and all property owners within 350 ft were given mailed notice. Public hearing is being held as we speak. Uh staff has reviewed the site plan, CUP
application and the zoning code compliance. Social club is a conditional use in the resort commission zone. The existing use of the property is a golf course. The property will be continued to be utilized as a golf course facility,
social club building and accessory structures to support and supplement the golf course. Followings may be appropriate conditions for approval of a cup. Applicant shall obtain a building permit for social club and accessory
structures. Applicant should comply with all zoning requirements. All structures shall comply with the state building code. Uh social club to be serviced by municipal sewer. Ingress and egress to social club to be from county road 4 and
Dub Street intersection. Permit for ingress and egress to be obtained from Crowing County Highway Department. Applicant to comply with all terms of the entrance permit as stipulated by the Crowing County Highway Department. All surface water to be
confined to the site. uh lighting of the golf course to be focused on the site and lighting of the golf course to be controlled. And I'm suggesting that some sort of hours of operation for the for the lights be
stipulated if in fact the conditional use permit is approved. >> Thank you, Jerry. Does anyone on the commission have questions for Jerry at this time? Lee, do you have any? >> All right, then we are going to move
into the next area, which is public input. So, this is a time and an opportunity for those that are here. If you'd like to share some thoughts, feel free to approach the podium, state your name and address, share your thoughts, um share your questions. Um if needed,
we may ask the applicant to come up to address some of those questions at the end. But during this phase, we're just going to take uh thoughts and and questions in general. So feel free to approach the podium. >> Uh thank you for allowing me to speak. Uh I apologize if I'm a bit disorganized
is that uh for some reason I haven't received any of the notifications uh about any of meetings or any of the proceedings going forward. So, I just one of my neighbors texted me said, "Did you get this letter about this meeting?" And I said, "No, it was two days ago."
So, I had just a couple of days to prepare. So, I'd like to ask for your your help with moving things along, but I've made some notes that I'd like to talk about. >> Can I interrupt one moment? Could you state your name and address, please, for the record? >> I'm so sorry. Yes. My name is Cashes
Mcznney. Everybody calls me Casey. is that I live at 8729 Bluebird Lane, which is, uh, if you look on the map, I'm immediately one house down on the, um, west side of County Road 4 down Bluebird
Lane. So, um, from my backyard, just for reference, is that I can see the tennis courts perfectly sitting on my deck. Matter of fact, eating dinner tonight, I was looking at tennis courts, thinking they're going to build a new building there, theoretically. But uh anyway,
it's been a um uh I live close by and I have some general questions and some thoughts. I've written them down because I'm at the age where I can't remember stuff very well anymore, so I have to write everything down. But uh one of the things is that this is exciting that
they're building and updating the traditional golf course. It's uh been there for 100 years. I learned how to play golf on the traditional golf course. My family has owned property in Breezy Point for 63 years and uh I am now happy to say that I have a fourth
generation is up here and enjoying it. My grandkids. So we love Breezy Point and have been coming here for a long time. I planned on retiring here at Breezy Point. Went to school at Arizona State. Lived out there. My parents lived here. My sister has worked at Breezy
Point Resort. My father worked at Breezy Point Resort. I worked at Breezy Point Resort as a bartender at their original marina in 197374, so a long time ago. So, I've been coming up here my whole life. And I love this
area. And I think that upgrading the traditional golf course is really an amazing thing. I mean, it's something that I suppose should be done. Golf is changing. Golf's evolving. But I want to just kind of focus here for a second on
something that I as I was reviewing the documents is that it seems that um uh uh we need to stay focused on why we're here. We're here for a conditional use permit for the um social club quote
social club. And as we look at it, that seems to me that the um what's being suggested is the building of a large nightclub. I mean, it's going to be a restaurant nightclub that's going to seat hundreds of people. Uh it's going
to have a 4,000 foot outdoor patio and a 400 foot stage where it'll be playing, I suspect, maybe live music if it's allowed. And I live about 350 400 ft away from that. So, if there's live music going on, whether it's people
announcing things on a microphone, I will be able to hear that in my backyard. Um, I love Breezy Point. I spend 50% of my time in my backyard looking at that property. And I have for 13 years that I've owned the property right there. And um, so it's something
that I think is important that we remember that the conditional use permit is not for the golf course, which is a great thing. The golf course is wonderful. Hey, I love it. I learned how to play golf there. What can I say? But we're talking about building a club. And they call it the social club, but really
what it is is it's going to be the new biggest bar in Breezy Point. It's a um uh as far as I can tell, it'll be bigger. I haven't had a chance to do the analysis, but it probably be bigger than the marina as far as space and seating and all that kind of stuff. So, and what
they're doing is they're building it right in the center of a quiet residential neighborhood where I live. All of my neighbors, a few of which are here right now, um, know each other. We get together, we talk, we walk across
from house to house and say hi, drive our golf carts around and enjoy ourselves. We want to make sure that we understand that when they build this is that it's possible that it's going to have an impact on all of the residents within not just immediately adjacent but
for a long ways away for example is that we sit on the my patio and listen to Elvis playing in the marina on Saturday nights and we can hear him just fine. So if there's music or things activities going on at the uh uh new social club is
that they will impact us and the key issue is that will that um how will that impact us um is that uh and so as we go through is that uh uh the type of facility proposed
and the affiliate changes are a significant change to its current use. They're not just upgrading the golf course is they're adding a giant uh entertainment complex. And I say giant because by UPN North standards
there's not going to be many that are going to be larger than that. So we want to make sure that we understand that and that we can also um understand that uh that will potentially be injurous
to the property owners that are nearby. For example, my sister is selling her house across the street. I haven't asked her, but will she need to tell her n her new buyers that this is going in and will that possibly impact their decision whether or not to
purchase the house or not? That's an important question. Hasn't been addressed. Hopefully, she'll address it appropriately. uh regarding the lighting of the course is that all I can say is that lighting of an
entire golf course is a big deal. When I sit at night in my backyard, which we often do, just last night while it was raining, we sat in our backyard and listened to the rain, watched it rain, and it was dark and lovely. But you
start lighting up the entire golf course. is that that's going to impact us. It's going to impact our use of our land. It's going to impact the time we can spend back there and how we spend that time. So, you guys need to understand about all the residents who are going to be impacted by this and how
this is going to impact them. And I'm not saying that um uh it's necessarily a bad thing. It just needs to be done right. And I think that's what P&Z and conditional use permits are all about is making sure that it's done right and operated right for all the people that
are uh that are around the facility. I think that, you know, the uh lighting of an entire golf course and building one of the largest bars and nightclubs in the area is a significant change to
the current use and operations of this. Right now, it's a quiet little golf course is that they talk about balls. In 13 years, I've never had a golf ball problem at my property. Fortunately, I don't know if I'm just lucky or what. I
we don't even get to find golf balls in the property, but uh so that's a that's a good thing. So, that's never been a question. And the people that come by, the families, the uh people that are enjoying golf, they're laughing, having fun. We enjoy watching them, enjoy
having them being our neighbors, and enjoy them enjoying Breezy Point and the golf course. But once you build a social club is that all a sudden it changes the whole nature of what is going on there and we want to make sure that that nature doesn't impact us negatively.
Um as far as the lighting is concerned uh according to the lighting diagram that you guys have presented is that I have direct sight access from my patio where I spend all my time of seven of the 24 foot lighting towers. Now, I know
they say that they direct them down and all those kind of things, but light doesn't just go down regardless. If it's a laser beam, you still can see the beam. That's the most direct kind of light there is. I'm an engineer. So, what I want just want to say is that
sitting on my deck and just seeing those lights, even they're directing down, but just seeing those light bulbs out there is going to have an impact me specifically and all the people on my side of the golf course. So, I just want to make sure that uh that's all taken
care of. Excuse me. I need to get a drink of water. And unfortunately, I don't have a computer so I can do this all on my phone. So I just making sure I see all of this correctly. But as much as anything else is that there's a couple
of um one other thing that that's interesting is that I don't want to slow this down. I don't want it to stop, but I have four recommendations and they're planning uh uh recommendations that are part of Jerry's plan. And basically is
that they're just four additional conditions that are simply added on. One is that I would suggest and that's something that may need to be discussed by more people than just me. We discuss it with my neighbors informally,
but the hours of operations should be picked something like between 7 and 900 p.m. 9:00 p.m. is when my grandkids go to bed. So, if there's noise and lights that they can see, it's going to impact
their visiting grandma and grandpa. So, that's something that's really important to us. Uh the um I think that there should be a lighting plan. And I know you mentioned the type of lighting they're using, but the lights are there different kinds different kinds of LED lights. There are different intensities
lights. They're different aluminums, different Luxes, different things like that. And there's also uh issues with LED lights in general. The city of Phoenix right now is dealing with that with some of their street lights they put in were too too intense and too bright. They actually were causing
drivers problems as they were driving down the street. So, they've minimized their lighting. Um, and also is that uh uh the whole patio thing. I think it's great. I can just imagine weddings and ceremonies and
things like that there. It could be a great place for stuff like that. But I'm concerned about concerts. Like I love Elvis. I've known Chris my whole life and uh you know my grandkids think he's
the real Elvis. So that's one of the great things about Brizzy Point. But at the same times that I want to make sure that I wouldn't I'd hate to no offense have Chris playing next to my house and on every Saturday night at 9:00 just would
be kind of a kind of a drag. So the noise and those kind of things are things that are really important to me. And then finally is that there is one other little thing is that uh I would suggest that as uh another thing is that the cup be reviewed on an annual basis
so that they can change and so we can change so that as we understand how all of the lighting works as how the golf course works and how all the activities that they plan work is that we can adjust things accordingly and all live harmoniously in this wonderful
community. And then finally is that um as I was reading through the uh document is the term social club is used. It's part of the PUC for a for a um resort um
commercial resort property. I think that's the right term is that but social club is a term that has a legal definition. And if you look at the legal definition, you guys can got people that are experts at this, not me. But when I looked at it, they didn't conform with
one another as far as the term social club, what it is, and what's being built on this new golf course and right next door to my house essentially. So, just some issues that I would like to get on the record and make sure they're addressed. I'll review the uh minutes. I
know that I'm uh talking too much and taking too much time, but uh I just want to make sure that they're addressed appropriately and considered when you're looking at the conditional use permit is that a conditional use permit is exactly
that is that it's a conditions under which they can operate this new huge club that they're building on the middle of the traditional golf course which is surrounding founded by all of a lot of
us and our neighborhoods and our neighborhoods and we just want to make sure that as that progresses is that it's something that will be all be happy with and that it will not be detrimental in any way or injure us to any of us as far as property values all those kind of
things. The four things I suggest as far as the times of operation, um the things that can be done is that the uh what kind of entertainment they may or may not allow are all things that should be um uh reviewed and included in the use
permit. And then as a builder resort and it builds out is that if you have a a review process in place is that they can come back on in at a later time and change things because things will change. Breezy Point will change and we all need to change. So that's all I have
to say. Thank you for your time and your effort. And I have to say is that I'm all for the golf course. I love it. I'm a golf nut myself. I live in Phoenix and uh uh golf in the winter and golf in the summer up here. So it's a great thing
and look forward to this being continued and turning out to be something that's good for the whole community. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Casey. Madam Chair, could you invite Mr. Hart to um
maybe explain some of the comments or answer some of those questions? >> Yeah, I'm going to before we do that, just so we only bring them up once, I'm just going to see if there's anyone else that wanted to approach the podium with something new that we haven't brought up as a question. And if so, just in the essence of time, we'll start limiting to
three minutes just to kind of keep um making sure everybody has an opportunity that would like to approach. So, is there anyone else that would like to approach? I have a question on the golf course. >> You'll have to go to the podium, please. >> And state your name, please.
>> Richard Burbbeck and I have a house at 29852 Papa Drive, which is on the 17th Fairway. And all I'm wondering is I'm look right now I'm looking at a beautiful manicured fairway. And yes, I
do get lots of golf balls on mine on the at the house and everything else, but um I just wonder I I see all these maps, but I don't know what I'm going to be looking at in the future with this golf course. So maybe uh Eric can elaborate on that because I've heard story I've
heard stories like we're going to have a pickle ball court. We're not going to have a pickle ball court and now it sounds like we're having pickle ball courts. Also, somebody said the 17th fairway will be unchanged. they're going to use it as an instructional hall, but I don't know if that's true, false, but
you hear a lot of conflicting things. So, I I just wondered if Eric could elaborate on that later. Thank you. >> Thank you, Richard. >> Good evening. My name is Paul Gertis. I am president of the board, chair for the Waldenheim condo association. We own six
lots perfectly adjacent to the existing golf course along the ex existing 18th green. I'm not going to believe the points the first gentleman made. I think uh lighting and sound is of our primary concern. But I think a little bit more detail when the two gentlemen come up around what does it look like between
the parking lot and the edge of the property which we own adjacent to as well as I heard some burming around the parking lot. Uh maybe some fencing around the property but a few more details I think would be uh would be appreciated. Some owners here tonight burn. Uh Bill, did I miss anything from
from the association perspective? >> All righty. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Is there anyone else that would like to approach? >> Then if I can have the applicant, perhaps Eric or David approach and feel
free to share any re um responses to the questions. >> Sure. Could we bring up the map that I had up there before? >> Can we use a pointer? >> Yeah. So hard to tell what what's what. >> Uh that one.
>> Your finger up there. >> Okay. I mean, I can walk up there. >> We can hear you. >> I mean, I do have a relatively loud. Can you help me take the microphone? >> So, you can hear me better with this. >> All right. Um I should probably grab my
piece of paper just so I have all of the gentleman's questions. So, thank you to the three people who brought up the information. I can try and go through everything. If I miss something, let me know. Uh, I want to cover the short ones first. Um, 17.
Where's your property on 17? >> Right there. >> Here. Right where my fingers >> to that corner. >> Right here or further? >> The brand new house is by to the left. >> Right here. >> Down in the hole.
>> Further. Correct. In there. >> Right over here. >> Yes. >> Right in there. >> Okay. So, with all of these conditional use permits and everything that we put in here, we have put everything in that we want to have future housing, not
knowing when that might be. Pickle balls just to show people where they may be. Whether they are built there immediately or not has yet to be determined. There's lots of cost factors that go into it. if they did. As you can see here, what we've done is we've tried to move everything as far this direction as we
possibly can. Again, the pickle ball courts are not intended to be used when it's dark out there. We're not trying to light that. Uh depending on when it does the sun does set, whether it's 9:30, 9:45, wherever that is at whatever time of night when people are out there,
they've got that, they can use that. They will be closed off and locked off daily, so you don't have to worry about kids going in there and playing at midnight or anything like that. Uh it is a fenced in area and those courts will each be individually sealed. So if you
are anywhere, looks like the pickle ball courts may align with the edge of where your property is. There's nothing else down here as far as lighting or anything else like that. So, all our lighting and everything would be north of this this
place right here. That's on the lighting side. Uh the high school coaches and such have asked year after year after year if there were areas like greens and things like that where they could send kids out to play. Uh in the past, we haven't been able to do that because we
only have 18 whole courses. But now by taking this during the daytime, we've been given the opportunity to allow junior programs and such to come over here with our instructors and things like that to use this area. The property owners who are down here have said that
they will help maintain this area right here. They love the idea of the kids coming down and practicing around here. Uh that's what they told us at the other meeting. So we've been asked to maintain this and we have no problem maintaining it. It is obviously more expensive to maintain it, but it is something that
the kids in this area don't have during the day. We'd like to be able to help the high school and middle school golf kids, uh, girls and boys be able to come over here and play. So, could that be used right here for practice? Yes, it could be used for practice, uh, from the school teams. The hole itself will be
allowed to turn into natural grass this side and this side. and kind of addressing the 18th hole definition uh in speaking with the engineers uh for our project here and everything they've developed uh in helping us with runoff
retention and putting all the water and uh storm water and everything in the proper areas. We do have the ability and intention to create BMS of could be anywhere up to eight feet tall, which will help us shield the water, keep the
water in the areas that we want, but also provide protection or blockage from any light coming from cars pulling into the parking lot um and any of the properties that are already recessed a little bit along here. So, we do not
anticipate any construction or building or any obstructions or anything. I'm not quite sure what you would be concerned about over there, but you shouldn't have anything in that part of uh your developments. So, our hope is to help
you protect your land in the same way on 17 as we would on 18. Um to minimize the traffic that's down in those areas and keep all the traffic up on this side. Did that >> hope you answer my question? I think >> okay. Was that okay? Um did that answer
seven 17 too? >> So is 17 will be green space? >> 17 he's asking if it will be green space. This will be natural green space. Correct. >> Okay. And what what exactly does that mean? Does that mean it turns into hay and fence a year?
>> Are you familiar with white birch? Do you ever go uh have dinner over at antlers? >> Yeah, I have. If you have dinner there and you go out on the patio and you look there, we call natural fescue. It's about 2 and 1/2 ft tall. And uh we maintain that. We once or twice a year
will spray for uh various forms of weeds to kill that. Our uh superintendent intend to do that same thing with this to obviously the more weeds that are over there, the worse it is for us. So to hopefully keep it as a 2 and 1/2t
3-ft uh natural fescue grass over there. Um that's the intent for all of that open area in there. So that that take care of that. All right. Um heading back to Casey's
questions. Uh we appreciate your support for the last 63 years. That's uh impressive. Um, four generations is great as well. Uh, you mentioned a few times huge club. What? Anybody? Okay. You mentioned a few
times, uh, huge clubhouse. One of the things that we're doing with it, it's listed as three stories, but one story is underground. So, it's actually two stories. Um, which makes it smaller than all of our other buildings on property uh, right now. Lower uh, than all of our
other buildings on property right now. Um, and as far as the size and the huge club, um, we actually have it contained to a relatively small space. It appears bigger on any of the plans that you may see because it shows as three stories, but one of the stories is below ground.
Uh, just as a note. Um, biggest bar in Breezy Point. Uh, I don't think that's close to it. It's not the same as Marina or, uh, or doide down there. Do you know what the size of those bars are? Just dropped off your head >> of both Dockside and Marina.
>> Sure. >> Uh not by square feet. >> Okay. >> Just and all I did was I didn't have a chance to do the math. >> Sure. But uh uh I'm familiar with the area and so it just seems from the 100 by 100 size of your building
footprint by 100 >> and that's >> that includes the patio >> corre that includes the entire space that the architects needed to know that they had to work with. So that's cart barn and the bar over there. So that's
it includes a 20 foot gap between the cart barn and the and the clubhouse. So, just so we have those details in there. Um, Breezy Point Resort right now, I I believe we operate under a noise ordinance of 10:30 um down at Dockside
at least. Is that correct, David? >> That's the city's >> the city's one on that. And we're not asking for any exception to any of that. What we already have in in place down there is what we intend to operate here. And you had addressed the stage, which
is right here. The stage is actually for hitting golf balls off of. Um, we wanted to separate it from everything so that everybody who's sitting in the courtyard and everybody sitting on the deck is watching the people hit golf balls off the stage. That's out to our bonus hole
that's out here. So, the stage is intended for that. Is there a chance that we could have musical performers out there singing? Yes. Uh, are we ever going to have Elvis out there? I don't think so. Um, but we do always offer the
opportunity to local performers to come sing inside our bars or outside of our bars up to within our city ordinance allowed time of uh 10:30. >> Is that seven days a week? >> Uh, no. Uh, we wouldn't most likely we wouldn't have performers out there anytime other than the weekends.
>> Question is the ordinance seven days a week? >> Uh, the ordinance should be seven days a week. It's a city, >> but that's something that could be addressed through the use per >> and I think we'd probably have, you know, defer to the city so we're not duplicating
ordinances, but >> Okay. Um, lighting of the golf course. You mentioned that you could see seven of our lights. I think it's two slides forward from here. Can you go forward two slides? Uh
yeah, there this was the original uh lighting map here that we showed with each of the yellow areas being uh the large lights and each of the blue boxes being the small lights. Those being the areas that would be lit. Um I assume
your house is somewhere over here. >> Y >> right next to the road basically. >> Right over here. >> Right about there. So somewhere over here um most of the lights that are in I'm not going to go here. Most of the lights that are in this area are ones
that we are suggested to are required from the engineer for safety for parking and uh traffic and with our ADA compliance for the cart pass and that that's just these right here. By having the building out there, we have to have
those lights. Uh David had suggested that I mention in here that we're talking about two different sets of lights. There's clubhouse operational lights and then there's golf course lights. If we're just talking clubhouse operational lights, these are the lights that would stay on the latest because we
can't shut them off while we have people still there. The rest of the lights that are the golf course lights will go off at varying times uh as they go around. If we as currently planned had our last tea time at 900 p.m. the lights would
follow the last group around. So as they go each one of these lights would go off as you went all the way around the corner until you got to the end. So, as the night goes on, and again, I know I mentioned it a few times and you all live here and have lived here longer
than I have, but in June and July when it's light still till almost 1000 p.m., we're still we're not asking you to we're not asking for a variance off of when it's light. We're asking just for the lighting from the time of our last
tea time through the conclusion of that that round. So that would be ideally 9:00 p.m. through 11 or 11:30 of the last light going off for the golf. >> So you're going to golf course. What you're saying now is 11 p.m. 11.
>> Um so and this is just standard. You mentioned Phoenix a few times. So you know there's a few lit golf courses down in there's Yeah. Okay. So um the golf courses down there do the same thing that we do. they ask for an 11:59
uh ordinance violation time for that. That's not saying that the lights stay on till 11:59, but if they were on after 11:59, which is 2 midnight, then they can be cited for it. Um, same thing with South Carolina and sounded like you had
done your research on it and that's >> well and specific the rolling hills in >> Tempe has address the chair. >> Okay. So to just address what you had said before
and to say it from our side, we are trying to accommodate a last tea time of 900 p.m. under the assumption that these rounds take 2 hours to complete. 11:00 would be the likely time that the round would complete. However,
we are assuming that the last lights for the last hole would be shut off at 11:30 p.m. Um, that's the way we have it proposed right now. Um and then uh one last thing I think that you had said on here was the definition of a social club doesn't
match the definition of a golf club. Um we are trying to provide something for our resort that's more of a resort meeting space. Thus the social area. It's not just for golfers. We didn't want to build something where only golfers are
encouraged and welcome to come. One of the greatest things that I appreciate about the whole city of Breezy Point is how social the city of Breezy Point is. We felt like this was a compliment to the city and not a direct definition of
anything at the resort. We thought it would be best to describe it as a place for all instead of a place for golfers. Thank you, Eric. >> Can I ask a question, Madam Chair? >> Yes. >> Can you explain a little bit of um
the second level and the first level of the building itself and you know, hours or months of operation might help clear a few things up as the nightclub situation. >> Sure. Um so
>> she has those blueprints in her computer. >> Okay. Yeah. If if you want to go back, go back one more. There we go. So, this tentatively would be the lowest level. This would be the underground level, the level that nobody sees currently. Right
now, you would have no idea that this level even exists in the building. So, we'll start with the next one forward. This would be the main level right here. Um, as you come from the parking lot, which is right down here where my hand is, which is below this picture, and you
come up, you would come up between the two buildings, the cart barn being over to the east and the clubhouse being to the west. You would enter on a path between them, come over and come in the front door or ADA handicap ramp out on
this side right here. You would enter into the building right here, go straight through. At this point, you are 40 in off the ground. So, you're sitting on an elevated patio right here, which gives us a courtyard that is 40 in below the surface of the elevated deck right
here. That's for wind restriction. It's for noise restriction. our speakers and everything that we have inside or inside those walls. That's to keep it from amplifying out over the open space and to keep as much noise as possible within
the courtyard realms right there. Uh Mr. Zer mentioned the second level. That's the next one. This is the second level up here. Um, as you can see coming up the stairs right here, we've got a deck that has a bar
rail along the sides so that people can can sit up here and they can watch the golfers play. One of our holes finishes here. Another one finishes right there. The bonus hole is right up here with the stage where everybody's watching and another one of our golf holes is over
here. So if you wanted to watch the golf, you could sit up on the top level and you can look out over the top of the golf course. Again, this level is 15 ft above ground. Not three stories, not any higher than that. This level right here
is at 15 ft. >> And in the winter, is this level open? >> In the winter, this level outside would not be projected to be open. Inside would be projected to be open, but there would be no sound outside of it. Once we get past say November, whenever it's too
cold to be out there, this would be sealed and inside used for all of the groups and anybody who wants to have, you had mentioned banquetss and receptions and that uh it would be a reception banquet area space in here too.
Anything else with that? Not off the top of my head. >> Okay. >> Winter uses >> winter uses. Uh, one of the things that many of the people who were at the the meeting of the neighborhood residents that came and met with us, one of the
things they had asked us for was a place that they could go and gather during the winter, someplace that could kind of bring the community together. And we've been working in various angles to try and provide a sledding, skiing, skating
area, something where people could come. That would be a, again, back to the social club, a socializing area for the city of Breezy Point. Something that Breezy Point Resort doesn't currently offer. That would also potentially have a skating rink outside serviced by a
clubhouse with warm food, warm drinks, and such to uh just give people in Breezy Point one more place to go during the winter. >> That Okay. I heard restaurant mentioned and then looking through the plans I
don't necessarily see restaurant but service bar. Can you elaborate if there is an actual rest full kitchen what's happening inside there? Currently we have plans to have what I call a church kitchen. Uh church kitchen being a kitchen that can provide all sorts of
food. But at our resort, we have multiple kitchens that can make the pork, make all that stuff for us, transport it to us, and then we can create various menu items from that. Uh, if you've been to the Snarky Lon, the Snarky Loon operates convection ovens
and things like that that don't require any vent venting, uh, no fryers and such, we would be able to offer those through our church kitchen um, instead of having the full fryer kitchen. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> All right, we're going to go ahead and close the public input section and move on to the um official action here with our commission. And how I'm going to start that is by reading through the
findings with a conditional use application. What we are required to do as a um commission is to make sure that A through D that those findings have been met. So I'm just going to kind of run through those and address those first. So the following findings must be
met. A the use or development is an appropriate conditional use in the land zone. Um and what we found is yes, this is a resort commercial. uh the golf course and social club is uh an appropriate conditional use for a resort
commercial loan uh land zone. The property is zoned resort commercial and the request is appropriate. So B, the use or development with conditions conforms to the comprehensive land use plan. I have a copy of that. It's a public document. This does meet the
comprehensive land use plan. Uh C the use and conditions is compatible with the existing neighborhood. Uh the existing neighborhood is mainly resort commercial um property. So it is consistent with what is directly around
the social club. Um D the use with conditions would not be injurous to the public health, safety, welfare, decency, order, comfort, convenience, appearance or prosperity of the city. And that also appears to have been met as a condition. So, there are A through uh I additional
considerations, and I won't read through them all. I know Jerry did read through all of those at the beginning. Um through reading through those, um most of these were all addressed in the um documents here. Uh I'd just like to point out some of the main ones which
would be uh sufficient off- streetet parking with the 181 overall parking spots. Um adequate measures to prevent um like offensive noise, vibration, we've gone through that in depth. Um so if there's um things that we want to
talk about here, we can also add those as conditions. But in general going through this um A through H or I have been met as as considerations. So, having just addressed those main concerns, is there any questions or
things on the commission that we want to discuss? >> Anything? >> Um, so I think like um what Casey brought up um some of the situations of you know, so if you got a tea time at 9
until 11:00 and you know what people if it's getting out of control and too noisy or something maybe we could look at down the road and say well maybe we need to change that to you know not so late something considered you know
>> so some of the conditions we have uh conditions that Jerry had placed in here as options one through 10 one number 10 is hours of lighting um that is something that we can implement in here I had asked about starting time but it sounds like there really isn't a need
for a starting time, but we could certainly add a ending time zone in there. So, why don't we just kind of read through these and see as a committee if there's any of these that we want to address. So, number one, applicant shall
obtain a building permit for the social club and a structure. Um, two, applicant shall comply with all zoning requirements. Three, all structures shall comply with state building code. Um, I think one through three are kind of all very nice standard things to have
in place. Is there anyone that would um want to omit either of those three? Okay. Uh, number four, the social cub would be service by municipal sewer. That's already been stated in the plan. Five, ingress and egress to social club
would be from County Road 4 and Dove Street intersection. They've submitted a plan that details that out. Um, six, permit for ingress and egress would be obtained by Crowing County Highway Department, which is also listed in here. Number seven, applicant to comply
with all uh terms of the entrance permit. Eight, all surface water to be confined to the site. Um, nine, lighting of the golf courses to be focused on the site. And I'd say those last three, those were all addressed in here as well, but we could certainly restate those as a condition. And then number
10, to your point, Lee, which is lighting the golf course to be controlled, hours of lighting. Um, I would say we'd probably just say until X time frame. And does anyone here, they had said 9:00. Um, with further
clarification, that would be 9:00 as a starting time for the first te-hole >> last two packs or for the >> right. Does anyone have a different time they'd like to input or discuss?
>> No. >> Okay. Are you good? >> Good. >> Perfect. All right. Any other questions or are we ready to make a motion? >> Madam Chair? >> Yes. Um there were
four recommendations that were made from the audience and the question is does it does the commission want to consider any of those for is legitimate concerns and whatever. I do recommend though that u
you also add that the cup be reviewed annually. Um I I think that's uh to everybody's benefit quite frankly to to make sure that that is conforming and as the gentleman
stated things change as we go and people change and and and activities change and and maybe that's an an avenue for both sides to get together and and talk about what's been going on
and how it's going. Uh that said, I I'm I would speculate that this project would probably be in construction, first year of operation is probably going to be 200 27. Mhm.
>> Yeah. >> So if the first year of operation is 27, the the CUP probably the first review, you could state that it'd be beginning of 2028 or or or thereabouts.
Um I think that would be probably a very appropriate condition to add. Um then we get back to the hours of operation. Uh that because this is a conditional use
permit, you can stipulate hours that wouldn't necessarily be an ordinance or whatever. It could be stipulated as part of the the approval process. And I think thank you Jerry because I think um of the items that Casey brought
up, we have a couple of those in addressed along with adding number 11. I would say that the conditional use permit would be reviewed annually starting in 2028. Yeah, I my first initial thought was maybe starting it annually
for the first five years and then 5 years every 5 years after that cuz in the first 5 years you're going to figure out where all your stuff is or what your issues are and then potentially a new board comes along and says, "Nope,
we don't like it. You guys have to shut everything down." I mean, that's unfortunate, but it's a possibility. >> Actually, I think if if the terms of the conditional use permit are not adhered to, you have the opportunity to uh take
those terms in front of a public hearing and and and address the the issues >> immediately. >> Yes. >> Oh, okay. Could I have clarification on what the review process would look like, Jerry? Is it an
internal? I think we would do it. It would probably be a public hearing. It uh we'd go uh staff would probably uh talk about the conditions. Have the
conditions been met? And have had we um encountered any violations? >> Jerry, would that have to be brought in front of the commission or is that something that the planning and zoning administrator would just review and if the conditions have
>> I think it probably has to go in front of the committee because you're the only ones that can can change it or um make manufacturer changes per se. >> Okay. I don't know if that's something that staff would even want to take under
consideration quite frankly. >> Okay. >> Um, one of the other things that was brought up was hours of operation. I know city ordinances has a noise ordinance of 10:30. Does anyone feel that that needs to be shorter? Otherwise, I would just say defer to
what we have in the city and not specifically have to call that out in case the city changes. Yeah. I'm not wellversed in what that how that works. I'm assuming it's decibb.
>> Mhm. >> But how many decibb does a ball make coming off of a golf club, right, when they're finishing up their last round? I have no idea. >> But I'm assuming there'd have to be some sort of a complaint or multiple complaints before they actually go figure that out. But
>> I'm I'm I'm good with the city current city ordinance of 10:30. >> You guys any agreement disagreement? >> I'm good. >> Okay. Anything else that we want to add based on comments? >> I do think that we we established a
starting time. Do we have an ending time for the lights? Because if the last tea time is at nine and it takes roughly two hours to complete, they're shutting off as they're going around the loop, which is the county road four side first. So those will all be off
in an hour, >> right? >> Um so I I think the 11:30 is appropriate to start with, especially if we're going to be reviewing this every single year. Um, it can be changed if there's
issues with it. >> Question is that on the lighting plan? >> Unfortunately, we can't take any more questions at this point. >> Okay. >> And then the lights they're required to have on, they're required to have on. That's what it is. Dave, would they
would the lights go off, let's say, as they proceed through the their game? >> That's how it's said. >> Teddy said they would all along 11. >> Just remember, since you're not miked,
we can't engage them at this point. All right. Anything else? Are we ready to make a motion? All right. Well, I will start. I'll make a motion that we approve the conditional use permit.
The conditions are as followed 1 through 10 with the addition of or with the um addition on number 10 of specifying a start time of 9:00 p.m. with the last lights going out at 11:30 p.m. Adding
additional bullet point number 11 that the conditional use permit is reviewed annually starting in 2028 prior to the start of the season. Is there any seconds? >> I'll second that. >> We have a second. All in favor say I.
>> I. >> Any opposed? Motion has passed. >> All right, moving on to White Birch presentation. Introduction of planned improvements to the Breezy Point Marina area. And please state your name again and
address for the record. >> Um David Landcker representing White Birch and Breezy Point Resort 7374 Fairway Lane Breezy Point, Minnesota. So, this is a much more exciting
discussion for me because I'm a boater and not a golfer. Um, so the resort is looking at um changing up the marina property and and I don't know if did anybody get a chance to read the letter
from soil and water that pretty much sums sums up what it is. Terry and I actually talked about this before he first retired um from the city and and at the time it was it was if you can keep the
impervious coverage the same or less the only permits we'd need would be like a over- thecounter permit through the city. >> And the plans have subsequently changed and gotten more there's more
details and things with them. Um, but one of the reasons I'm here tonight is not just to kind of unveil the project that we would like to do down at the marina, but to also see from the planning commission's perspective,
do we need to come here in any kind of public hearing capacity um a conditional use permit or there or for some other reason or if the permit can simply be um you know taken from the city over the counter. So, with that
being said, um this all started with David Spizzel wanting to um have a two lane boat ramp down at the resort. Um that was actually that functions as two
lanes. You know, the one that was built there was built back in the 60s. And while people associate it with two lanes, it's not really two lanes. It might have been at the time in the 60s when everybody had a fishing boat that was 14 ft and
and uh you know only three feet wide, but as boats have grown and pontoons and other watercraft use that, there's really not enough room for two vehicles to go in side by side very safely. They
do it occasionally. um but most often not. So it kind of bogs down bogs down that area. So we started our initial conversations with the DNR and the DNR brought us to their um uh planning
process and showed that if you have an area where there's like a public more public use launch that we could actually use their sort of design as a two two ramp launch. If you are familiar with the area, an easy one to look at would
be on Halverson Bay on Pelican Lake. There's a twobolt launch. Um there's one on G Lake. Um there's quite a few of them around the area. And what what they consist of is 40T wide. So the one we have out there now is 30. So we're
increasing that footprint by 10 feet um to put in the two ramps. So, as we communicated with the DNR, um, one of the one of the observations that I had made and suggested to him was that when it rains, all the water from
the city street up the hill by the stop sign all the way down to this property, comes down into that parking lot and funnels right down the ramp. I mean, you could put a bobber and watch it actually find its way right
into the lake. And so the DNR and I looked at it and he said, 'Well, have you ever thought about um communicating with soil and water and see what kind of opportunities they might come up with that could help you protect the shoreline as well as create
a a storm water buffer management plan along that shoreline. So we hadn't. So we did make that contact and and this and they came up with an engineered plan that's sort of like a drain field. The water would come down
the parking lot. We would have a gutter across our ramp. It would gutter down into the sort of cyists or drain field tanks and then go into this what I'll call a little park area. Now, instead of
the parking that is out there now, that would all become grass and lawn. The boardwalk that travels the front of the marina now would go away. That would be gone and it would be rock rip wrap down to the shoreline to stabilize that that
front. And then we would just have two uh sidewalks that would uh concrete sidewalks that would go over the top of that with culerts underneath them to to get to our associated marina docks. Um, and so we've looked at that and it's all
very expensive. The, you know, the initial launch is expensive. The change to go to the storm water plant is expensive and none of it's required. The DNR has said you can just put in the 40ft ramp and just leave things as they are. But I think that the resort is
saying, "Hey, you know, being good stewards, looking at this, sort of improving the area, we can, you know, make this beneficial for all parties." Um, as we continue to look at it, then we look at the where the little boat house is now where they operate out of
for the pontoon rentals and so forth. And the docks there are dilapitated and heaving from ice and age, etc. And so that part of the plan would be to renovate that as well and to put in a new dock system there, all meeting the
DNR's codes and standards. So we have a plan that's sort of laid out in there. Um, soil and water is going to contribute some funds. We're going to check in with some other stakeholders as well to see if there's any interested in participating
financially to um to to put this together. But the overall project cost is nearly half million dollars to do do this whole renovation. Um we wouldn't be redoing the entire parking lot. We'd be doing sections of it to accommodate the
parking we're losing. We would still capture that. Um did a rough calculation. We're reducing the impervious coverage by about a percent. So it's not huge, but we're not increasing, we're, you know, decreasing, but we're actually capturing the storm
water, which is the important feature to keep the nutrients and the, you know, the chemicals and things that would come off of the roads from going into the lake. Um, so that's that's sort of the plan. The plan would be is that green space area that would be between on the
front where the current boardwalk is. That whole green space there would become uh sort of ladened with it. It would be kind of like a water garden kind of a thing. It wouldn't be water in it per se, but there would be wet plants, flowering plants. They want it to be
sort of like uh for pollinator I I guess they call them pollinator plants. Um try to keep a couple of the birch trees that are there. would try to work around those during construction, but there'd be a few trees replanted in that area, but it wouldn't be an area that we would
mow. It wouldn't be an area that we would be um establishing picnic tables and things like that. It would be pretty much left in more of a natural state. We might weed whip it in the fall and in the spring just to kind of, you know, clean it up, but then let the seeds and
things regenerate and and grow back in there again. So, we're thinking it would be sort of a a a beautiful area once it was complete next to the lake. And I kind of if you if you try to look at it, if you go down to the little park that they built
um down on the lake, that's on the what would be the east side of the resort. Um the park there, the they the soil and water came in there and did a similar thing about 10 or 15 years ago. It would be
something similar to that when it was all said and done. You know, if you look forward five years from now, you'd see the vegetation kinds of plants that they've got in there now would be similar to what you see at that location.
So, so again, I think one of the things we're reason I'm here today is um to answer any questions you might have specifically about what this plan entails or what it might look like. But um how would you see the permitting
process moving forward from this point? We have a permit from the DNR already for the boat launch. Um they've already approved us building or improving the docks along the um the boat house because they're within
their 8 foot limits. So we're not doing anything outside of what their normal requirements regulations would be. Um, same thing with the rock rip wrap along the front of the uh land where the storm water facility
would be. That's all DNR approved as well. So, the DNR's sort of like given us approval to do that project. Soil and water has come in and and helped us create a plan that works. And uh so it's
we're in front of you sort of asking what would the next step be with the city from from my perspective. Uh I am looking at this more as a rehabilitation of an existing area. Uh
the biggest concern that staff would have would would have been the impervious coverage. If there would have been an increase in impervious coverage, I think we'd be working through some some issues that that need to get taken care of. But
the fact that it's being reduced, I just I'm looking at this as a maintenance type thing more than anything else. Uh and I don't see it being more than an over-thecounter permit.
with the structure of the um station there. Is there anything Jerry that you would see that we have to address there? If there's any building updates, is that anything because of the proximity to the water that we have to address? Uh as far
as building con structures uh if they are too close to the water uh but they're existing >> and they're being rehabilitated on the same footprint uh that would be an over-thecounter type thing. If in
fact they were proposing to add on to some of those structures then we'd be in front of you with variance applications etc. Is there anything that you're thinking you might not >> expand upon or at this point we're not looking at doing any extensions to the
building or even changing the building itself. >> Okay. >> You know, the only thing that could change is once we pull that dock out of there if there's some structural event going on on the front side of it. We would need to maintain that, but we'd
probably um stop in and see your staff before if we notice that need to be taken care of. So, no, nothing new with the building. I think as Jerry said, if the building were ever need to be replaced or
modified to be larger in some scope, we would be back before you with a much more complicated application. >> Okay. >> I think overall it's beneficial to everybody.
um the resort itself obviously and the citizens of Breezy Point and all the people that use Pelican Lake by capturing all the storm water. I mean, that's the goal, right? Is to keep all that out of the water. And that's not what has been done since however
long that has been there. And now they're going to, you know, invest money into being good stewards of the land. And I'm I'm all for it. >> I echo that. I think that's amazing that you're actually looking at that from a different perspective of of Stuart's
Lake and not just a business perspective. I mean, that's commendable. Highly commendable, especially with a price tag of potentially $500,000. So, >> does anyone have concerns? You know, I'm I'm recalling that um I don't think we
were involved in approving the city's renovation of its launch area. Am I correct, Jerry? >> Yeah, it may have been before my time actually. Okay. Uh yeah, I I don't
remember being involved in in any of >> city got a grant and and did many of the things that David is describing uh at that launch area and I don't recall that we were involved in approving it.
>> Well, it sounds like you have a green light to go ahead with the over-thec counter process. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Moving on to item eight, which is Scott V's request to unconsolidate lots 17 and 18, block 2, Breezy Point Estate,
southwest intersection of North Drive and North Lake View Drive. So, we will start with a we'll open the public hearing. We'll invite the applicant to the podium. Yes. >> This is not really a public hearing. This is basically to introduce the
issue. Gotcha. um and >> review the request. >> I don't expect any action to happen this evening. I I think Mr. V is is trying to gauge whether what he's proposing is
something that might be considered in the past without any guarantees. but he doesn't want to incur some costs that he's going to have to do, which would be a survey. Unless there would be a sounding that the commission may look
at this in the future. >> Is that fair? >> Fair. >> Perfect. Then I am not opening a public hearing and I'm just going to listen to you talk. I'm Scott Reed, uh 8922 North Drive. And uh I own the property across the street
from me, which is 8931 North Drive. And that lot is that parcel has two lots, lot 17 and lot 18 of Point Estates. And uh 30 years ago, a
previous owner had combined that and made it one parcel. So, I talked to Maggie at Crowing County Land Services and she said with the approval of the planning and zoning here in Breezy, just an email that says she can go ahead and
put that property line back between lot 17 and lot 18. She would have no problem with that. The problem is there's a garage, a non-conforming garage on lot 17. And the intentions is for me to sell lot
17. I've been mowing and maintaining that lot for seven years now. And it's like, okay, I'm time time to get rid of it. Um, so anyway, um, that garage, the new owner when he brings his equipment in to do the
foundation would eliminate that garage, take it out, get rid of it. Um, on the property line, there's also a 8 by12 utility shed. Not an issue. I would take care of that myself. That would be out of there. And if that line was to drive back, drop back in.
Um, the home on lot 18, which I want to retain. And the garage on lot 18, which I would retain. That garage only has a 22 foot driveway from the street. So I would need a after
the fact variance on that and otherwise all the setbacks would be conforming. I would be 10 feet off the line with the garage that's the one I'm retaining off
the line to the lot 17. I'd be 10 feet off that. And I all this would be based on a survey which I believe I'm within a foot or two with uh my app on my phone. I can get pretty close to the to the pins and I don't see
a problem that this the survey I'll just dial it in better. But before I do that, I just want to make sure that uh that drive that garage that's been there for 60 years really. Um is that going to be an issue? Um,
>> Madam Chair, >> is this Seward? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it's the lot right by uh it's uh right by the the boat landing for the Northshore access or North Drive access.
So, it's the property is directly it's a corner lot right by the access and then that's vacant. Well, there's a garage. >> Yep. >> Then I have a rental property on the other part of that on lot 18 >> which I'd be retaining. >> So,
>> Madam Chair, I just an aside from what uh Mr. Zorder has asked the question about sewer. If in fact this were not sewed, >> wouldn't be able to >> municipal, it wouldn't we wouldn't even be talking. >> No. Right. >> I understand that.
>> I just wanted clarification for myself. It's a It's a 28 acre lot. Each lot would turn into a 28 acre. >> Well, basically that garage on 18 is just technically too close to the
street. >> 22 feet, which is not conforming to the roadway, the North Drive. So, that would be the issue. And I'm not going to move that. I mean, and four feet behind that is a crowing light pole. And so I mean there's a lot more
to move in that garage than just push it back. >> I think it's it's it's easy to talk in in in the abstract, but I think you really need to see a survey and show what that would be and what those results would be. I think the the
biggest concern is are we if by allowing a non consolidation like this would be we creating some non-conforming uses and that that would be the biggest issue. We really won't know that until we see a survey.
>> Yeah, I think it would be just one non-conforming because the one the shed the garage that that would be gone. So, it'll just be one garage that's got a 22 foot driveway. Would be the only thing left on the property that would be an issue. >> There really isn't any indication in the
in the property file that there were any ever were ever any permits other than for the house. >> All right. Well, the previous owner, I don't know, 30 some years ago combined them two lots. I'm just looking to go back to the
original property audit. So, just making sure I'm understanding. So, the idea would be kind of theoretically um where that line is to basically split the two lots. Um you'd sell one of the
lots. So, one of my concerns would be having the garage that removed prior to sale because otherwise then we are selling a property with something that doesn't have a building up to cuz we we in Breezy Point don't have lots that
just have garages unless there is a you know certain condition. So I guess my first thought was that would be creating an issue and I would be leaning more towards if that were something that surveys came back everything looked good having prior to sale the garage would
have to be removed so it doesn't create an issue for the new owner to have to approve for a variance that you know we're creating basically um and then the existing garage so as I understand it it's just too close currently So that
would be >> but it's been there for like I say 60 years. >> Okay. >> Not that that matters but >> and we don't have a permit on file or anything that we can tell for >> it's an illegal structure as we speak. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Right. And that's why I'm here. So >> and I guess I'm I'm kind of leading towards you know get the survey if you feel pretty confident that the setbacks and things are being met. I think from a from my personal perspective, not speaking for anyone else, I think
there'd be a good point to be made that, you know, if the garage is removed from that property allowing that sale and that division to happen, so we're not creating an issue with that um unconsolidation. And then on the property that is keeping the garage, it kind of sounds like to me like one, we
don't really have documentation to know if it was approved or not approved, but there's a light pole behind it, which is a condition that is not um under your control, >> right, >> to be able to change. So, it was not a condition brought on by the property
owner, which is one of the conditions of a variance. So, I'm kind of leaning towards the if you feel confident, get the survey. As long as you're also feeling confident you would remove that garage prior to sale so we don't create an issue for a potential buyer, then
that's out of compliance. >> And I guess the reason I said the buyer the buyer has his own equipment, >> unfortunately. That's I'll have to talk to him about coming in early. Does anyone have other thoughts or
>> No, I think that all makes sense. >> You guys >> I agree with you. >> Is that enough information for you to feel comfortable? Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just want to I just want to make sure that if there was absolutely no way to get a variance on that one garage, then I wouldn't even
>> Perfect. >> I wouldn't go ahead. But >> All right. Well, thank you. >> Thank you. All right, we have an other. >> Well, we have an other. Um, I was asked to provide some reading
material for your uh enjoyment as far as variances are concerned. Um, I suggest you you go through that and and uh come back with any questions that you might have. I I think uh the crux of the
material tells you that you really have to have a reason other than I want it and uh that needs to be considered when you're considering variances. I I think we've we've seen in the past a
lot of well I want this and and therefore I need it and that's really not a criteria. And I agree. It's kind of um when we ask that question often I think the applicant is also confused not
knowing what they need to supply and I kind of wonder if there's more that we could do ahead of the the game and I I don't know if there is but if we I know that we probably supply the ordinance as written of or what a variance is required but I'm not sure that many
people understand what that means. Quite frankly, many people that apply for a variance just want something and they think that um no matter what the rules are, if I pay the other the extra $250,
I'm entitled to a to do something that isn't uh >> allowed >> allowed. That said, if that's the case, maybe we should be thinking about changing the ordinance to allow some of those things. But Pardon?
>> So I thought we were >> we are in the pro we will get there yet but um we we need to have some concrete reasons why variances are granted and and some of this information is pretty
straightforward as far as what you have to do to and it gives you some examples of of what is a legitimate reason and what isn't. I think the issue is is a lot of it being platted so early, you know, most
of it's been planted in the 60s, right? So everything that anyone wants to do on a lot in Breezy Point is 80% of them are going to have to require a variance >> or or get more property in >> that's tough to come by. >> Yeah.
>> And that you know then where's the hardship, right? Lake lots are the tough ones. The the off lake lots are are not so tough, but >> the lake lots are the tough ones. Um, >> but again, you got to have some concrete
reasons why you're improving something. Jerry, have you ever seen other municipalities have example lists of what hardship reasons are when they're filling out the application to give them an idea like before they even go down this process in
their head they're thinking what truly is my hardship? You know, like and I haven't read through all of the documentation here, but I kind of wonder if like giving them a sheet saying here's examples of hardship, you know, come prepared to defend your reasoning with an example and
Much of what I've seen has been we we've tried to prepare those applicants, but we've got some tunnel vision. >> Okay. >> And this is this is my hardship and and
unfortunately the way the statute is written, there's a lot of leeway in in what a practical difficulty is. It really should needs that needs to be >> defined more. >> Yes. Exactly. But >> which would make it easier on us too to
try to nail that down. >> But just take a look at it, come back with any ideas that you might have, questions. I know Roger was concerned that he probably didn't have enough information and
hopefully that helps. I do think that's something that we've all kind of contemplated over a bit over the last years. >> You struggle. >> Yeah. >> All right. Uh any staff reports?
Commissioner reports? Meeting is adjourned at 8:18.