[Music] Heat. Heat. [Music]
If you wish to speak to any item on the agenda or during the public comment portion of the meeting, please fill out a speaker card. Each person addressing the board shall have three minutes to complete his or her comments on each agenda item for which he or she has filled out a card. The chair has the
discretion to determine or alter the time limits on any agenda item. The board of county commissioners requests that speakers appearing under the public comment section of the agenda limit their comments or presentations to matters relating to county business that are within the board's control,
authority, and jurisdiction. Good evening. Welcome to the September 10th uh first budget hearing for the board of county commissioners. We have a quorum. We'll call the meeting to order. Tonight we have invitation provided by
Sha Grant with the local spiritual assembly of Bvard. Sir, you're recognized. Uh thank you for uh inviting us again and on behalf of the bahigh of Bvoulevard County and Melbourne, we'd like to present a prayer for America. Oh
thou kind Lord, this gathering is turning to thee. These hearts are radiant with thy love. These minds and spirits are exhilarated by the message of thy glad tidings. Oh God, let this American democracy become glorious in
spiritual degrees and render this government victorious. Confirm this revered nation to upra the standard of the oneness of humanity to promulgate the most great peace to become thereby the most glorious and praiseworthy among all the nations of
the world. Oh God, this American nation is worthy of thy favors and is deserving of thy mercy. make it precious and near to thee through thy bounty and bestow. Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Commissioner
Delaney, for the pledge. to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay, commissioners, we will go right
into the public hearings. We're on item D1. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Item D1 allows for the reading of the tenative aggregate operating millage to fund the portion of the FY20252026 budget that is supported by property
taxes. At this time, I'd ask the budget office to read into the record the tenative aggregate millage rate for fiscal year 2025 2026. The aggregate tenative millage rate for the fiscal year 2025 2026 budget is
4.5129. The tenative aggregate mill rate represents a 5.43% increase when compared to the aggregate rolled back rate of 4.2806. The tenative aggregate millage rate represents a 1.66% 66% increase when
compared to the current fiscal year 2024 2025 aggregate millage rate of 4.4390 4390 >> commissioners. As approved by the board on July 22nd, tenative millages have been set at the rates required to fund board priorities, including public
safety, specifically for fire rescue wage package, as well as higher funding requirements for constitutional officer budgets, along with an increase in the mandatory Medicaid contribution to the state and other operational requirements. In addition, this includes an increase in the voter approved
millages for the fire control MSTU and the parks and recreation millages. In agenda item D2, the board will hear comments from the public and then discuss millages and associated revenue and agenda item D3. >> Okay, commissioners, we don't need a
vote on this one, so we'll go into D2. Okay, let's go on to D2. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Item D2 allows for the public to comment on the revised tentative county budget for fiscal year 2025 2026. Before we begin public,
excuse me, before we begin public comment, I would ask that the budget office read into the record the revised tentative budget information. >> The fiscal year 2025 2026 tenative budget is 2 bill510,399,81. This budget represents an increase of
$189,967,259 or 8.19% more than the fiscal year 2024 2025 current budget of 2 bill320,432,542. Commissioners, we are now ready to accept public comments on the revised tentative budget for fiscal year 2025
2026. >> Okay. I have Let's Let's do that. We're going to go to the cards. Okay. I have two cards. Um Alli Goff. Ma'am, you're recognized. Good evening. My name is Ally Goff. I am the president of Space Coast United
Soccer Club. Um, on behalf of our soccer club and our 9,000 members, I want to voice our strong support for the proposed $20 tax increase. Uh, we've spoken directly to our membership and they are 100% behind this initiative. The reality is simple. Recreational
growth and facilities have not kept up with the needs of our community. The seven acres at the north end of Vier Regional Park have now been delayed about 15 years. If we wait another two to five years, we're continuing the pattern of neglect, ignoring the growth and de development of our services and
youth programming. It's not hypothetical. We're already feeling the consequences. Just this year, our soccer club has had to turn away 350 children just due to playing sports, just due to not having the facilities and the space in our
community. We just didn't have the fields. We didn't even moving it across the parks, you know, within Wickham and Dick Blake. Um, at the same time, our club has been forced to fund and development county improvements ourselves because Parks and Wreck is constantly trying to balance
the budget that simply doesn't match the reality of our growing population. As an organization that works with thousands of kids every week, we know firsthand sports are more than just games. They're the backbone of life life lessons, teamwork, and character development.
We when we fail to invest in facilities, we're failing to invest in the future of our ch our children in our community. That's why we stand firmly in support of this tax increase. Not it's not just about the soccer fields or football fields or baseball fields. It's about creating opportunities for all kids to
play and grow and to thrive. And I can say with confidence as the president of our soccer club, our families are behind this project. The one thing to note, I also have the support of our football club here. I myself have three children. All three play in the soccer club and two of my three are in the football
club. My husband is on the board of directors of the football club as I'm in on the soccer club. So, we're heavily involved in our community and we work diligently try to try to support each other by the same time on five nights of the week they'll have 200 plus kids on
their football fields and we have double triple that on our VR soccer fields. So once again, we're just here to try to support and show our initiative to say we need these nine acres or seven acres, excuse me. That's all.
Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. Um, excuse me. Pam Avery. >> Hello. I have a couple things to hand out to everybody. Do you want to just take them pass them
down? >> Okay. First time jitters here. So, okay. Good evening, commissioners. My name is Pam Avery. I've lived in Bvard County most of my life. I've been a small business owner for over 20 years. I believe in
transparency, accountability, common sense leadership, and above all, the truth. That's why you have the packet in front of you, because everything I'm about to say is factual and documented from months of research. Over the last several years, North Revard has ma, excuse me, has made real headway thanks
to strong leadership on this board. One of the best examples of that was the creation of the north boulevard economic development zone. That program brought in $3.5 million a year to district 1, supported small businesses, attracted companies tied to the space program like
Blue Origin and SpaceX, and helped developments like Titus Landing take root. For once, North Revard was being recognized as upand cominging with real investment and momentum. Before Commissioner Delaney even took office, she campaigned to dismantle the zone.
She eventually voted to preserve it, but by then the damage was done. We lost the zone. We lost the funding. Her early comments claiming the zone benefited millionaires and billionaires were not only false, they were reckless. Throwing around the word corruption doesn't make it true, but it deserrode trust in the
very programs designed to help us. In the end, we lost over 56 million in economic development and growth and could have that could have been ours. We need leaders who do their homework before doing harm. We cannot afford to lose the program, the progress now. Not with poor financial judgment and weak
leadership like we're seeing today. Her lack of understanding did not stop there. She hit the ground running with a spending spree starting with her renovations at $92,000. Later admitting that she had no idea it would be that expensive and was even discussing with her staff the
possibility of paying for someone else's flooring. I had an independent licensed contractor create a very general estimate based on the material and testing and labor used and it came back close to the amount of the facilities that had already been provided. My point is simply clearly she nor her staff
understand the difference between a living room remodel and a public commercial project. Another 21,000 was spent to return Tom State and Park to public use totaling in $113,000.
I'm kind of moving quickly here. Sorry about that. Um then of course we had um Speak Up Bvard. Um which we spent $50 to $100,000 on that in staff time and effort with more workshops that she won and
followed. Um there's there were 67 people involved in that and there are 680,000 residents in this community. Um I'm running out of major time here and I so apologize. What my ask is for tonight is that
this this board actually gosh I'm so sorry. This board please give clear direction tonight to the county manager and county attorney's office and to investigate and document the district one commissioners. Sorry.
>> Okay. Thank thank you very much. >> I'll leave this with everybody for public. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. That was the last of the cards, commissioners. On item, we're back on item D2. Um, there's no vote required for this
item, right? So, we will go on to item D3. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. D3, it is recommended the board of county commissioners discuss and tentatively adopt the FY 2025
26 milit rates. The table that was included in this agenda report reflects the proposed milit rates approved by the board at the July meeting which were included in the trim notices sent to the property owners. You will recall that for several of the voter approved taxing districts, the boards approved rates beyond what was initially included in
the fiscal year 2025 2026 budget. In accordance with Florida statutes, the Florida Department of Revenue DO has prescribed forms and instructions that calculate the maximum levies for counties and independent special districts. Attachment A provides the do prescribed requirements for simple
majority, supermajority, and unanimous votes. The board may tentatively adopt a milit rate higher than the simple majority maximum rate at this first budget hearing with only a majority vote. However, the final adoption of milit rates must follow the statutory approval thresholds provided by the do.
The milit rates adopted by the board will determine the amount of revenue to be allocated by the board within those respective taxing districts. Any changes to the milit rates under this items will need to be recmputed and announced under item D4. >> Okay. Do you have the question? Go
ahead, Commissioner. >> I don't have I'm sorry. I don't have a question. >> Okay. >> Is there is there any question for staff before we >> No. Okay. Um Okay. So, the board uh is there a motion to Okay.
>> So, move. Okay, I have a motion. I have a motion by Commissioner Goodson to uh tenate for to adopt the tentative millages. I have a second by Commissioner Alman. Clerk will call the role.
>> I I'm so sorry. >> Okay. >> Are we doing all of these at once or one at a time? >> Um I Sorry, Jill. >> Uh I'm sorry. At the tenative hearing, you can approve them all at once. At the final budget hearing, we will have to go
one at a time and approve them. >> Is there any way we could do them one at a time? >> Um, what's the pleasure of of the board here? Do you want to do this all at once or do you want to go on each one? >> Question.
>> I mean, we had a motion and a second here. >> Question. >> I would prefer to do it all at once. >> Okay. >> I would too. >> All right. I have a question. Commissioner Goodson. If if we do it all at once now, we still have to do it again individually. Is that what you just said?
>> The board can approve the tenative millillage all tenative millages in one action here tonight. At the final hearing, we will have to go millillage by millillage and adopt them one at a time. >> I move my motion stands >> all at once.
>> Okay, commissioner. I'm I'm hearing we have a motion. We have a second for for the the item alto together. Clerk will call the role. >> Commissioner Delaney. >> With that being said, I'm going to have to vote no. >> Vice Chair Goodson, >> yes.
>> Commissioner Atkinson, >> yes. >> Commissioner Alman, >> yes. >> Chairman Felner, >> yes. We'll show that passes 4. Let's go on to item D4. >> Uh, Mr. Chairman, commissioners, based
on the approved changes in millage rates that were approved on agenda item D3, I will now ask the budget office to read into the record the revised aggregate mill rates. >> Uh the aggregate rolled back rate for the fiscal year 2025 2026 budget is
4.2806. The aggregate tenative millage rate for the fiscal year 2526 budget is I'm sorry 4.5129. Uh this represents a
5.43% increase uh which is more than the aggregate rolled back rate. >> Okay, we don't have to vote on that one. Correct. We'll go on to item D5. Commissioners, in accordance with the Bvard County code of ordinances, I
request adoption of the FY 2025 2026 budgets for the following agencies. A, Silent Waste Management. B, Storm Water Utility Department. C, Fire Services Non-Adalorum Assessment. D, Melbourne
Tilman Water Control District. >> Okay. Uh now do do we vote for all all four? We're we're we need those. >> You can vote for them all together as well. >> Okay. Uh commissioners, are there questions on that? If not,
>> to approve. >> Okay. I have a motion by Commissioner. I have a second by Commissioner Delaney. Clerk will call the role. >> Commissioner Delaney. >> Yes. >> Vice Chair Goodson. >> Yes. Commissioner Atkinson, >> yes.
>> Commissioner Alman, >> yes. >> Chairman Felner, >> yes. We'll show that. Approved. 5 Z. And we will go on to Sorry, Commissioners D6. Commissioners, it is requested the
governing board of the Barefoot Bay Water and Sewer District approve approve a resolution adopting a budget for fiscal year 2025 2026. >> Okay. Uh on on D6 is are there questions on that one? Is there
>> there's discussion? >> I'm sorry. Okay. Discussion. Commissioner Atinson. >> Thank you. Um actually before we entertain a motion on this, if I may, um I would actually make like to to point out that Barefoot Bay, it's um a separate independent district um with
increasing rates to pay off um their bond debt. um once their debt is paid off, they'll be absorbed into the county. Um residents are really concerned about their increasing rates. So, I have consulted with staff who have been fantastic as normal trying to
figure out how to get a solution um which can provide some kind of relief to the Barefoot Bay taxpayers. And so I'd like to make a motion separate from this um to direct staff to have the rate consultant update the rate
study to see if we can lower the rate to provide relief to the Barefoot Bay rateayers and to authorize the utilities department to consult with the bond council subject to the county attorney's approval to explore options regarding the outstanding bond debt. This motion
will not impact any other Bvard resident. >> Okay. Is it is that something we would do tonight or possibly on the on the next regular commission meeting? Um just looking for some advice here. >> So that's staff direction. It's an item that you could take up tonight. My
understanding from talking uh with Eddie and kind of a back of the envelope calculation is such a study might cost approximately $30,000 or less and could be completed in a few months. Um it wouldn't affect your consideration of
the Barefoot Bay water and sewer dependent special district budget for tonight. What would probably result from it if the study found that there could be a rate modification is that a rate resolution would come back to you at some point in the future. At that point, it may require a budget amendment.
But this is something because it's in the nature of of a staff direction. It's something the board could take up tonight or the board could decide that you want to put it on the agenda for the next regular meeting. I'm personally happy to um be on board with Commissioner Atinson on this and
get this going as fast as possible for her constituents. >> Okay. All right. Let's uh let's let's do that then since you brought this issue up. So, okay. That was your motion. >> That's my motion. >> And I think I understand Commissioner Delaney is a second on that. Uh clerk
will call ro on that on that motion and then we'll be back on D6. Okay. Commissioner Delaney. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Vice Chair Goodson. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Atkinson. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Alman. >> Yes.
>> Chairman Felner. >> Yes. Okay. Commissioners, we're back on D6. There any other comments or questions on D6? Is there a motion for D6? >> I make a motion to approve as written. >> Okay. We have a motion by Commissioner
Atinson. Is there a second? >> Second. >> We have a second by Commissioner Alman. Clerk will call the role. >> Commissioner Delaney, >> yes. >> Vice Chair Goodson, >> yes. >> Commissioner Atkinson, >> yes.
>> Commissioner Alman, >> yes. >> Chairman Felton, >> yes. We'll show that one passes. Thank you, commissioners. We'll go on to D7. Uh, commissioners, based on the action taken during this public hearing, I now ask that the budget office read into
record the revised tentative budget for fiscal year 2025 2026. >> The revised tentative budget for fiscal year 2025 2026 is 2 bill510,399,81. Um, this represents an increase of 8.19%
or 189,967,259 over the current budget of 2 bill320,432,542. >> Commissioners, we request tenative approval of a resolution adopting the FY20252026
Bard County budget. I um >> question. >> I'm hoping we're going to have a bit of discussion around this. >> Okay. >> If that's okay. >> Okay. Are there are there Let's do an order. Are there any questions? Okay. Commissioner Delaney in discussion.
>> Okay. Um so, as I'm sure most of you have done the same thing, I've I've spoke with staff about the budget at length. Um, I have some concerns. Um,
some of it has to do with our operations. Um, one of my major concerns is, uh, with our capital, our equipment, our vehicles, um, all of those types of things.
I'm not seeing how we have a tracking system that is um robust enough where we're tracking, you know, what we have, the condition of the vehicle or the the piece of equipment or
um how old it is, you know, is it worth fixing or, you know, um replacing. It's in our budget book, which which is the information that we have, you know, we
basically just get a wish list from all of the um departments and um for me it's been difficult because I'm trying to figure out what items are absolutely necessary, what are things
that um you you know, could we could we push a little bit more life out of some of the things that we have or, you know, are these things truly necessary? Um, and then so there's that piece.
Then I have things like, um, you know, uh, the way that things are funded within the county and the accountability that we have to the constituents. And um one of the things that's come up for me over
the past couple weeks um and and beyond is the reconstruction of Satellite Boulevard. And um for for those of you who may not know is that Satellite Boulevard is a three um mile long dirt road in my district that gets heavily
traffic uh heavily used with um a lot of traffic and heavy vehicles. Um, unfortunately, there's sometimes, you know, four-wheelers and things that tear up the road and whatnot. Um, but this it's in the process of being
reconstructed. And while I've been trying to get information out to the public to try to keep them informed because, as we know, a construction site is not going to be what the what the end result is. But the fear is is that you know what happens in the meantime and
are we using the best materials as possible to um rectify this situation because what was happening before was the washboard was so bad and severe that people's vehicles were breaking and so they literally couldn't get in and out of their homes with their without their
vehicles breaking. Um, and so I'm wondering I'm so sorry to do this, but I I want to step down to down here to show everybody a picture of um
this this is last night a um vehicle that got stuck on Satellite Boulevard. And you guys can see in that picture, I mean, the ruts are so deep. And part of it's because the the material is so fresh and
new. But I'm I'm wondering the difficult part for me is that we have a lot of blueco collar workers that live out here that do this type of work and they're frustrated because they are saying to me that, you know, this shouldn't be happening and if we were
using the right materials that this wouldn't be happening. And so today I got um a report of what I'm assuming is so I asked for the the invoices um for the material that's being used and it
says on it shell dash dash shell and shell mix. And so then I got a a a report on the material and it says lime rock. So, I'm wondering, is it lime rock shell mix or is it um a shell mixed with
dirt? Um, and all these things matter because people, you know, they have to be able to access their homes if we're going to maintain their proper, their roads. And right now, that's just not the case. People are slipping and sliding into the
ditches. They're um, you know, this this is quite a scene that's happening out there. And people are extremely frustrated. And so when when we're talking about the budget, I'm frustrated because we have these
really severe needs. And I'm wondering, how do we know what the right thing is here? Because I have my residents who they do this work every day telling me this is the wrong material, but then I have our staff telling us this is the best material out there and it's it's going to be a great thing.
um you know we don't really have the funds to redo this if this is not the right thing. Um another thing I wanted to mention is um
about salaries and uh the 4% across the board. I think that it's a bit troubling for me. Um especially at our highest level, um a 4%
uh pay raise is um for our county manager and county attorney is over $11,000. And I think that that is quite a pay raise. Um especially when the proposed uh
contract that we just got access to shows our county manager getting the same salary as our last county manager and then on top of that getting an $11,000 raise two weeks later.
And so it's really difficult for me to see all of this and tell our our residents, yes, we need more money from you. And um
you know things like like our my office um Miss Avery and I we we maybe disagree on you know what exactly happened but we agree that the price was too high and um
this is not this is not just my office. I mean, these floors were put in the entire VR complex even after all of the shade that it got from being used in my office. And so, I'm frustrated that nobody stopped and said, you know, hey,
this may not be the right thing. Let's look at some other options. And so, um, I don't I don't really know what to where to go from there because I mean, this is
I I really feel like and I'm I'm frustrated because we hastily stopped a project a process of picking a new county manager and um I don't see anything that is and I don't
see willingness to even have these conversations of the possibility of doing things in a different way. And it's it's frustrating. It's frustrating because um you know we're going out there asking
our residents for more money and I can't in good faith say to them you know yes I know where every single penny is going. I I had reached out to the budget um the citizens oversight committee for the
budget and I asked them for some feedback on what they thought um about our budget and two of them responded to me. Um sorry about that.
Two of them responded to me. one of them uh who's my appointee, she was concerned. I asked her to look into um parks, you know, I just and uh public works. And the reason why I asked that was because part of the reason uh one
some of the villages that are going up are are the parks possibly. And so, you know, one of the things that we found was a a $20,000 um commercial stove that is on the books
for next fiscal year. And but that stove has already been in place for two months. And so there's many of these instances where we have um items that are already in place, but it's budgeted for the next
year. And so the money is all just um it it doesn't track right. And I I get the mid-year supplements. I get the adjustments and things like that, but it just I don't feel like this is the right way to do business.
Um, and if our vendors are not, you know, giving us the the things that we order in a timely manner, I really feel like we should be pushing them to give the give us the things that we order or, you
know, pick a different vendor. Um, you know, and I I think that we should pay our vendors in a in a timely manner as well. Um, so that we build good relationships. Um the
the frustration comes from I I was hoping that we would come together as a board during the budget workshops and really dive into this stuff together. And I feel like we're completely working in silos and I don't think that that is the way the constructive government
works. Um, I would have really loved to, you know, dive into these books with the five of us and our county leadership so that we could try to hammer out some of these issues that we're that we're
finding. And um, you know, I'm I'm wondering, do any of you feel this see any of this or feel feel this way? Have have you looked at it? Have you you know I'm wondering about that.
>> Commissioner Goodson. >> Okay. Mark, could you come up please? I'd like to respond to the commissioner's comments about Satellite Boulevard. Mark, can you tell me wasn't there some rideway issues on Satellite Boulevard?
>> So, uh there is um we don't uh own all of it. Uh some of it is by maintenance. >> Correct. Now, also now when you talk about Shell, tell me tell me about Shell. Where do you buy Shell for County Roads? >> So, it depends on whether or not um
where the work is done. In this particular case, the closest pit is SNL and that's where the all of the shelf for Satellite Boulevard boulevard was purchased. >> Correct. And it meets a certain LBR, loadbearing ratio. Correct.
>> Which is a DOT standard. Correct. >> It is. And we have a county code that requires LBR uh for uh a minimum of 40. Uh when you look at the PIT report, uh the PIT is showing that the LBR value
right now is 113. We've also contracted with a geotechnical firm. Once the road is actually done, uh we will have every 500 ft, we will have uh our geotechnical firm go out and confirm that it meets
the minimum 40 lb as well as the density test requirements of 98%. >> Correct. And and also at the rate you're going, there's probably I don't know, tell me two foot of that material on that road. >> So there's about there's about uh three
or four inches uh in general of of just uh silt and and slough. >> Um the the bigger issue really has been uh the amount of rain that we have had over the last week or two. So it it's very hard to work the material and so it
has exacerbated some of the concerns that the commissioner uh you know has has raised and we're working diligently to try to get uh >> Can you tell me the cost? Are you buying it by the ton or the yard? >> Uh we are buying it by the ton. Um >> what's the cost a ton?
>> I I I don't have that. >> Okay. Would you say that if you were you got two choices? I think in central Bard I think you know well you can have it trucked in from Ocala but the trucking would be astronomical. You have Rinker CX Limerock DOT Limerock or you have the
Marley Shell from SNL. The only other pit I'm aware of is Charlie Reed. Is there anywhere else you buy material that you put on that road? >> It is it is possible. I'm not into those level of details every day but you mentioned the primary ones.
>> Correct. Correct. And of course, rain affects all of rain affects lime rock. You know, if you put enough lime rock down, get enough rain, it's going to turn to mush, too. >> Right. >> So, but the rightway is an issue. The drainage on the swailes is an issue. Correct.
>> That's correct. So, since it was not originally a county road, it was never designed uh to any standard whatsoever. Um so, we are rehabilitating the road. We are not constructing some new road and it will never be to an expectation of paved.
>> Now that being said, are you talking about the next three years depending on money the next 5 years? What are you looking in longevity? >> So right now um we are doing one and a half miles in the current budget out of the three miles and we project anywhere
between three and five years before we would have to rehabilitate it again. The challenge with this road, as Commissioner Delaney had very astutely pointed out, it is used by uh folks that use it as a pass through to go from 520 to Chevron. We have off-roading, we have
wheelies. We've been out there, the commissioner and I, where it happened right in front of us and that is a challenge that is hard to uh address. >> Okay. Okay. Do you have any other comments about that route? >> So, uh you know, as I mentioned, we're working very diligently. Uh we suspended
operations today because of the amount of rain uh that was going on in that area. Uh it has affected uh some of the drivability. I have not seen where u people were in ditches. Not saying that didn't occur, but I I was not aware of
that. Um tomorrow morning, assuming that we have drier weather, we're bringing in uh another grater and operator. Uh we're actually taking it from Merit Island so that we can help um work on that road as well as the surrounding roads and get a
handle on it. We are expecting that the weather to break in the next uh day or two. And we're hoping that once we get to some drier weather that uh these issues will uh find their way behi in the rearview mirror once uh Shell is uh
graded and compacted. It will serve as a hard base until people you know drive and do donuts and whatnot. We just haven't got to that point because of the amount of rain that we've had. >> Now the other issue I know I think I know but I'll ask a question. OciOla
County uses uh recycled asphalt off the roads. They mail off the roads to build roads. Do you know you you want you know what I'm talking about, right? >> I do. >> And it seems to I've gone over and checked it, looked at it and took the time from point A to point B and it
seems to hold up good. But I also do we not sell our millings back to the contractors that make asphalt? So, so we do and we actually get uh the best rate in Central Florida when you look at the bid that uh VA is the low u on because
we uh sell all our asphalt back to them. Um our price is substantially lower than Oyola County, >> right? Is that something we might want to consider to to put put on a road say 3 or 4 in deep? >> So, we've looked at it in the past. There's um there's concerns from an
environmental factor. Certainly, our code would have to be updated because it's not um something that is currently allowed by code. Uh we have a number of uh concerns with it. I know you and I and and Rachel have talked about that specific issue in the past. Happy to look into it further.
>> Now, what would be your concerns? Tell the board what is your environmental concerns by using that because asphalt's everywhere, >> right? >> So, tell me your concern. Um so I'm not sure that I could uh you know prepared right now to fully articulate them but I know that u when it it's in a crushed
condition it would uh subject to leechmore. Um we have you know certainly sensitive body water bodies uh throughout the county where our dirt roads are. Uh there's dust concerns. So and there's probably others that I'm not thinking about in the moment but uh we
could certainly review and and get back to you. >> Thank you. I have another question. May I >> for a question, sir? >> Okay. Now, who in the audience handles vendors that knows everything about vendors? Kathy,
>> see, >> please come forward. >> Don't go too far. Mark, >> Commissioner Goodson, you sounded there for a moment like you knew something about roads. >> I doubt it, you know, but >> I know that's a nasty road when it's wet. >> But it depends on how many beer cans you
drive. Okay. >> How you drive out there? >> Kathy, can you tell me to help me understand Commissioner Delane's comments? If you have a list of vend vendors and you're asking for a price on
toilet paper, okay, to deliver it to the warehouse and the first vendor, say is out of Orlando and he's low, but you call him up and you say, "I need 300 cases on Monday." He says, "I can't because I'm out of toilet paper or I'm
shipping it to Orange County." What do you do next? >> Well, a number of our vendors are their primary and secondary. So if the primary can't support the request of the county, we go to the secondary vendor >> which could be a penny higher per roll.
Correct. >> That's correct. >> Okay. Now to fight that in any way to make it so transparent, to make it so cheap, you have one cho choices. Do without toilet paper or buy it for a penny more. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> I'm going to vote to do without toilet
paper to save money. So, is there anything else you can tell me how you judge vendors that I'm unaware of? >> Well, you're talking about bids, which bids you you determine a the appropriate bid by the qualifications, the
responsiveness, and the responsible bidder with the lowest price. So, we go through a number of criterias to determine which vendor that we put as primary and secondary. We don't just pick one vendor just because of the low price because you might not get the
quality or the responsiveness that you're talking about. >> So it's true in the county when you bid something and and let's say that you bid throughout Central Boulevard, you know, Oyola, Indian River, Valuchia Boulevard, and you call the guy up and say, "Hey,
come come put in 10 foot of sidewalk." And he or you say, "Come install sidewalk or come do asphalt." and you find out that it's he find he comes here and finds out it's five feet of sidewalk or 10 tons of asphalt. Usually, what response do you get?
>> Well, it depends on where he's from and how much business. >> I'm talking about if he's out of county. >> Yes. Out of county. Well, you know, when we bid anything, when we advertise, we advertise on a national basis because we advertise on vendor link. So, we
advertise all over for for the products that we get. But normally the most responsive bidder is the one that gets the job. >> Okay. But normally if if the contractor shows up for anything and finds out it's only a limited amount, he probably says
or does he say, "I can't come to Bvard County for that amount of money." >> T- typically what we do, we give them the specs before they come out. This is what we're asking for. And we see the response that we get from that vendor. If we don't get a response from that vendor, we go to the next. Commissioner,
if I could just, you know, add to that because at that point, um, Kathy's group is not in it's it's primarily public works. And so, to your point, uh, we go to those that are on that bid and we do often get that I'm not coming from Oyola
or Orange or wherever they're from for >> fill in the blank. Um, so we then have to go to the next uh, contractor, right? >> A lot of times that might be higher. It may be based on our timing. Uh, so there's a lot of variables, but we look at low price first and then we look at
other factors >> or either you get to wait months before somebody's in that neighborhood doing something that will pick up your portion of work that might be min minuscule. Right. >> Right. Okay. >> Yes. >> Thank you, Kathy. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, chair.
>> I have a a couple uh if if you'd like, I could respond to a couple of the things. I've got some texts. Um, so you had asked about price,8 $8.70 per ton for shell mix. Uh, as far as the um concerns
with um the recycled asphalt, you have pulverized uh material fines, binders are old, start to break down and that's what leeches. We've also had horrible uh complaints in the past as well as uh we've heard from cities like Palm Bay
that actually do allow it and also once you have uh donuts or whatnot it tears up the millings and then you have real problems. So um it is not a panacea and certainly not a solution. Those are just some things that some of my folks have
been yeah uh u >> well may I >> responding to? I would totally disagree with you, Mark, and your staff because if you go to OciOla County and and look at what they put down on Keher Road fill down to that pit that they operate out of there and you have 180,000 lb trucks
a day running out of it, now it's a straight road. I agree with you. >> And Canaveral Gross Boulevard straight road >> and of course when you put it down then they prime it again with a liquid asphalt that's not that's emulsified safe asphalt for environmentally safe. >> Uh I totally disagree. I don't think
that you have seen the application in OciOla County, but that's strictly me. I don't, you know, I could care less. >> I could care less. >> We've looked uh we've been to Oscola multiple times to look at what they're doing, but happy to look at this specific issue again. >> I hear you. And of course, if you've got
it in your mind that that's not feasible, I totally understand. But I totally disagree, too. But that's me. Don't let it worry you. And the other issue, you haven't quoted me Limerock yet, and I imagine Limerock is $32 a ton because the rail to go to City Point. So
Limerock would be totally expensive. So I don't know if you're process going to process soil cement on Canaveral Grows or by pug mix. >> It's satellite boulevard. >> Satellite Boulevard. Yeah, I'm sorry, not Cana. Well, I don't have you thought about those issues. >> So for Satellite Boulevard, it's an
unpaved road. Our plan is to um >> just stabilize it. just stabilized crush shell. >> Um, so and I'm also I'll look into it further, but I'm being told that the example that you have uh listed is is different than what we're talking about.
I don't know enough about it. We can look into it further. >> Okay. Well, I surely don't either, Mark, but thank you for taking my questions. >> I have some questions. >> Okay, Commissioner. >> Um, so can you clarify for me what is the material that is being put on
Satellite Boulevard? So again, it is a stabilized shell as the invoices show. I think what some of the residents um >> then what this um I I was asked specifically what material it was. Is it the Is it crushed shell that is
fossilized uh sea shell fragments or this was lime rock that you guys had sent me that um with the LBR value 113. >> So I'm sorry where where do you see
limerock other than lime rock bearing ratio? So the the chart that you guys sent me, right? It's >> this is a report on limerock bearing ratio, >> right? But uh it is a report on the shell. Limerock bearing ratio does not
mean it's uh limerock uh the limerock bearing ratio is a Florida specific laboratory test that measures the strength and relative loadbearing capacity of uh limerock base subgrade materials uh and other things. So the invoices that I had gotten sent say
shell mix and then underneath it says shell shell. >> Mhm. >> So that's that's the confusing part. Is it a shell mix? And if so, what is the mix? And if it's straight shell, then I'd like confirmation on that. >> So uh after your uh inquiries,
Commissioner, this is what we received back from u the pit. Uh but as uh Commissioner Goodson had pointed out, there's only several pits that uh provide this throughout the county. We can certainly go back and asked uh the question that you're asking
>> because when I when I had spoken to you and Susan about this, you guys had said that um the engineers had done all sorts of testing and this was the material that this specific material was the material that we needed on this road.
And so that's why I'm trying to pinpoint what is the material, >> right? So it is we had looked at um early on whether or not we needed to uh put down some sort of design mix. We uh working with the
geotech firm that looked at it decided that we need uh shell. That is what is being put down. as far as you know if there's anything in it from the pit that's something I'd have to confirm uh with them but as the LBR value shows
this well exceeds uh the the bearing capacity needed to do the job correctly and the um techn geotechnical consultant will be coming back out once the material dries after we uh roll it and
grade it uh or grade it and roll it and then um that is when this material will strengthen up because it dries out and it hardens. >> I guess I'm just um concerned because the dates on this is 1218 2024. So I I
don't Is is this the same >> that is the latest um they have to do I believe it's a yearly test for FDOT to be a state certified PIT and so that is the latest uh that they have. They're not required to test every uh every time
they go in there. They know what their PIT is based on this. They validate it each year. FDOT is the state certifi has the state certification office. We don't have that apparatus here at the county and so we rely on on them to certify through the state.
>> Okay. While you're looking there, are there other questions? >> Yes. >> Okay. Commissioner Goodson for a question. >> If you if you uh know anything about shell, stabilized shell, shell shell on top of shell shell, there's wide terms
that's used it in used in construction. Okay? And if you know anything about SNL, they make what's called a pug mix. And they make it's a concrete blend of Marley shell with a certain percentage of concrete and they ship it. You put it on a road, you know, usually six is six
inches or more thick. Orange County loves it. They use it all the time. You're aware of that. Right now, what's out there that they're selling for stabilizing material called moral stabilizer, moral shale, is the overburden they throw up on the bank with the backhoe and they sell it when
you stabilize a road just like you're doing. You bring it in and spread it 4 in thick and you mix it 8 in deep and then you roll it and grate it and it's called a stabilized subbase. Then if you go any further, you put lime rock on it or some sort of a base material out of Ocala or Miami. Then you
prime it. Then you put asphalt on it. That's the extent of my conversation about this. I'm all over it. >> And so what's the process that we're that we've done then? >> You're at the stabilized sub. >> Well, with all due respect, I'm asking
our staff what >> Go ahead, Commander. How exactly has it been put on the road and what have been the steps to stabilize the road? Because right now this picture does not show stabilized. >> Right. So, you know, as I mentioned, we've been in inundated with rain, but
as uh Commissioner Goodson was um just alluding to the material first off, we push off the fines. those fines that are there, there's three to four inches or so. And uh those are going to be used to help box out the road as well as uh
create wind rows. We uh then put in this stabilized shell which uh again has all come from the SNL pit. Um there have been some uh questions or concerns that hey, you know, why is it coming from
Tucker? Why is it coming from our uh other pit? Uh and that's because um the budget process um for us starts in in the February March time frame. In April, we're projecting where we're going to be
with a project. As you know, we had a public meeting on this and we believed at that time that we were going to start in June and in good faith we believed we were going to finish it because we wanted to ensure that we spent the funds. um we decided that we would buy
the materials and store them otherwise we would normally just have them come directly from SNL. Uh the alternative is waiting for a mid-year supplement or coming to the board to say we weren't able to spend it and that is cumbersome at best. So that's why people are saying
hey you know you're taking it from your own pit. We're not we pre-stage it there. But what we're doing is we are transporting it. We are dropping it on the road. We are grading it out. We are rolling and compacting it. And normally, if we didn't have the inundation of water, that would dry out and harden.
That just hasn't occurred because of the amount of rain uh has been really intense this past week. Um we are hoping to get ahead of that with um a little bit drier weather that's coming uh over the next couple days. Uh spreading it out, rolling, compacting it, and um
seeing that harden up. Commissioner Goodson, if I could ask you a question because you seem to know, you know, a good bit about this. Well, if I heard you correctly, were you saying that when you get the material, you grade it into the road, like it chops it up like some
kind of um >> It depend >> it mixes it as you lay the the material. >> Chair, may I? >> Yes. >> It would depend on the thickness. If he's putting 3 to 4 in usually in construction to do a stabilized row base, you you blend it with a mixer, a
big mixer. It's just like making a mud pie. It were you planning on putting May I ask Mark now a question that would answer your question. Were you planning on putting a full depth of six or eight inches or were you planning on mixing it? >> So in this particular case, we know that once we get past that three or four
inches of slough, it is a extremely hard subbase. Correct. And we're also not um paving the road as you had laid laid out. So what we determined was that if we went in there and mixed it with the existing road, all we would be doing is
making fines out of that. So what we decided was to preserve the integrity of that subbase is to not only just put 3 to 4 in back. We have a road that does this because it was never designed. So in some cases um it is upwards of a foot
of stabilized shell. It is being put on there and it is being uh graded and and compacted uh rolled >> and so that's even better. >> That's what we're doing. >> That's your question now. >> Thank you.
Yeah, it's it's all I know is that I'm I'm stuck between two, you know, two things right now of the community going, you know, we can't even drive down this road and get out of our house and then us saying, you know,
we're doing everything we can. And I'm trying to figure out is there some kind of middle here that that is there something that we could be doing more than what we've been doing to make this situation even get a little bit better. >> So first I would say that obviously we
have empathy for our residents and you know the concerns that they've brought up. We've been very attentive. We we have uh to the situation. We've put out our construction supervisor, our maintenance supervisor. We've been out there uh while I haven't been out there personally, we have been looking at it
and seeing everything we can do. But in honesty, whether we were out there doing the construction this week or not, we would have had the same issues or similar issues because of the amount of rain and the amount of traffic that gets. The only thing that at this point I could offer is uh it it will be a
sacrifice, but if we cut off one of the uh exits, it would mean that the local traffic has to drive around, but it would stop the thoroughfare issue that we have of people trying to go from Chevron to uh to 520. Even though we have closed uh to local traffic only, uh
we have personally, our team has witnessed people uh still driving there. We've had people uh on our crew notice five and six trips in in an hour. And so it is not just being used for local traffic. We're not we're not uh law
enforcement. Uh we can't do that, but we could shut one of the roads down. It will create some hardship, but it will help this situation, >> right? Thank you. >> Okay. Other discussion on the item, the
original item which was D7. >> I'm I'm wondering if anybody had any thought to um what I was mentioning about the way that we go through this process. >> Okay. Is there anything anything else?
Okay. Is there a motion for D7? >> Okay. Have a motion by Commissioner Goodson. I have a second by Commissioner Alman. Clerk will call the role. >> Commissioner Delaney. >> No. >> Vice Chair Goodson. >> Yes. >> Commissioner Atkinson?
>> Yes. >> Commissioner Alman? >> Yes. >> Chairman Felton? >> Yes. We'll show that passes 41 and we will go into board report. Um,
okay. Sorry, wrong one here. >> Mr. County Manager, >> no report, Mr. Chairman. >> Mr. County Attorney, >> no report, sir. Um, Commissioner Delaney.
>> Yes. Um, first I just wanted to um say some things to the Satellite Boulevard um community that is definitely watching this meeting right now. um as I'm not sure if if it was made clear, but it
sounds like the um county is bringing out another grader and is going to get um working on some of those side roads that you guys had mentioned um were causing you troubles and uh you all heard the conversation about,
you know, the material that was put on the road. So, um I'm sure we'll be in communication about your thoughts on that. Um, I uh printed out for us just because we didn't get a chance to um
really talk about this a lot and I know it's coming up for a vote um next week. I I just had to share some of my frustrations with the um county manager contract. Um some of the things that I
had spoken about publicly and um contacted our county attorney about was um requiring annual eval evaluations and doing a fixed term. Um, neither of those
things were put into the contract. Um, I have concern that we're just going with our previous county uh manager's salary. Um, our previous county manager was county manager for, if I remember
correctly, about eight years. And that's a lot of experience. And now we have a county manager who has six months experience who's going to be making the exact same amount of money. um I just that doesn't sit right with me. And then
because the the the um contract is effective on the 15th, that means that he would be eligible then, correct me if I'm wrong, for the 4% COLA raise, um which would be another
$11,000. So that would be from his current salary that he had as assistant county manager to now it would be a $100,000 raise overnight for a position he did not have to apply
to, didn't have to go through the rigor of a process. Um when when he was um assistant county manager, he was only over six of our departments
um housing and human services, parks and wreck, transit, library services, tourism, and UF extension. Um, you know, that's a lot of departments that are not under his exper uh counted as him having
experience over these these uh these departments. Um, I'm by no means saying that, you know, he shouldn't get a different salary for more responsibility.
Um, but for us to just off the bat give a premium salary for someone with much less experience, I I don't know how we are are doing that and then telling our taxpayers, yeah, we
need to raise the millillage. Um, years ago, we had uh the same type of thing happen with our county attorney and our previous um
county manager. In uh 2022, the salary jumped $52,000 and then another $13,000 um two week uh you know shortly
thereafter because of the cola raise and then you know the county attorney's salary it was it was pretty similar and it just one of the things that's talked about a lot out in in the public is how much
these, you know, positions make and people are very uncomfortable with it. I' I've never had a constituent say to me, you know, I really want our um county manager and county attorney to
get an $11,000 raise. Um I I just I feel like we really need to look at this. I'm frustrated that we were cut out of the process um not only with the um
going through the process of getting a new county manager, but then we got stonewalled again with cut out of the process of negotiating this contract. And so what happens when Mr. Leenfeld retires at some point because he's in drop and we need to find a new county
manager. And if he gets an $11,000 raise every year because 4%, you know, and that that just gets higher and higher and higher, what are we going to hire a new county manager at over $300,000 a year? At some point, we have to, you know, put
this put these positions back in check. And um I'm this makes me extremely uncomfortable. Um, another thing that makes me uncomfortable about the contract is is that the car allowance,
there's no dollar amount specified. It's only a 65% of a new vehicle. And so it doesn't say what the price of the new vehicle is. Is it a Maserati or is it a Toyota? You know, um,
and then it says dues and subscriptions and there's no dollar amount associated with that as well. So I I just wanted to share that I wanted to give this information out um to give a clear picture of what we were looking at.
Um and just to state my frustration and state that I'm I'm very uncomfortable with this. >> Commissioner Goodson and board report. Oh yeah, I got one. Well, I'm thankful for two things. The University of South
Florida and Florida State. And I'd like to comment on this comment. Um, you know, other than Commissioner Alman, the first day I took office here, I didn't know anything about a county commissioner, but I was paid $60,000 the first day. Thank you. And almost got a
raise. Remember the vote? Almost got a raise. So, you know, we're only as good as we are and you're only as good as you are. And if you're in the market working, you if you're good, you're going to get paid to be good. Okay? And
that's part of life. That's my report. And one other good thing for God this weekend is Florida plays LSU. >> That should be your butt licking. >> Tigers, right? >> Yeah. Tigers. >> Okay. Okay. Uh, Commissioner Atinson in
board report. >> No report. >> Um, I'm going to have something here at the end. Commissioner Alman, sir, >> not really not really a board report, but I did want to respond on a couple of the things related to the uh county
manager. Um just just the respect of giving you an answer of some of your concerns. I was pleased I I having worked as an executive and had some experience I am not a fan of the annual review process. uh and that's I'm not
alone in that and I think many feel that annual the annual review of executives are problematic because they provide outdated onesizefits-all feedback and doesn't suit uh diverse workforces. Uh this can result in uh delayed and
unstable information and they are costly. They're very costly in terms of time and resources and probably most of all what I don't like about them and they can create employee anxiety and uh demotivating competition fails to recognize exceptional contributions and
and and are susceptible to greater biases. So I I want you to know I didn't support it for a reason because I agree with that frame of thought and um in in today's modern world this model is being replaced by more effective continuous
feedback and human- centered performance and management approaches that foster trust, transparency ongoing growth. I really like the contract we have and I feel that the process we have works and I like that continuous feedback. As far
as the salary, I was just thankful that our our new administrator was willing to work for the price that he was willing to work for. So, I was relieved. So, I'm relieved about it. I feel comfortable. I respect your position, but I wanted out of respect for you. You know, what I
felt and why. >> I appreciate you saying something. Thank you. >> Thank you, Commissioner Olman. Now, I hate to uh end on a sorrowful note, but I don't think we can
leave here today with without uh recognizing that Charlie Kirk was shot and killed today. Uh I can't believe that political discourse has has gotten that bad. Um it's a it's a horrible
thing. So, I'll say on behalf of the board and the county, we're thinking of his wife and his two daughters and his family. And um so we'll take a moment of silence
before we leave tonight for Charlie Kirk. Thank you everyone. Have a safe trip home. >> The opinions expressed by any member of the public during any period of public comment do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the board of county
commissioners of Bvard County, Florida, Space Coast Government Television, or the program sponsor and are solely those of the presenter. The board of county commissioners of Bvard County, Florida, Space Coast Government Television, and the program sponsor hereby expressly disclaim any and all responsibility or liability for any defamatory or
slanderous statements expressed by any member of the public during any such period. [Music] [Music] Hey, hey, hey.
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