P. You're right. Hey, hey, hey. If you wish to speak to any item on the agenda or during the public comment portion of the meeting, please fill out a speaker card. Each person addressing
the board shall have three minutes to complete his or her comments on each agenda item for which he or she has filled out a card. The chair has the discretion to determine or alter the time limits on any agenda item. The board of county commissioners requests that speakers appearing under the public
comment section of the agenda limit their comments or presentations to matters relating to county business that are within the board's control, authority, and jurisdiction. Okay. >> All right. So, first item on the agenda
is our pledge of allegiance. Uh, Commissioner Delaney, >> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. >> Okay. And we have here uh for the prayer. Good evening uh commissioners and to chair that alman. I'm Sean Ferguson, senior pastor of faith total Christian center in Rocklage. Also I sit on the
Rock City Council and preferably prayerfully our next mayor of the city of Rocklage. Let us pray. Father, we are so grateful as we gather in these sacred chambers. Father, we come with grateful hearts knowing that you are the source
of all wisdom, all authority and peace. We thank you for this opportunity to gather in these sacred chambers. We thank you for our county commissioners. We pray, oh God, that you would guide them today as well as the staff and all that are present with a clarity of mind
and purity of heart. Father, grant wisdom in every decision, integrity and leadership, and unity and purpose. May every discussion be conducted with respect, patience, and a sincere desire to do what's pleasing in your sight. We
ask, Father, for your discernment as policies are considered, compassion as concerns are heard, and courage to act for justice, safety, and the common good. Lord, we cover this meeting in your peace. And Father, we ask that you
would bless those that are present, bless this county, bless every resident, and bless the United States of America. In Jesus name we pray. Amen. >> Amen. >> Thank you. >> Thank You always do such a wonderful job for us, Councilman. We appreciate you
being here. Okay. First item on the agenda is a resolution to name March 21st, 2026 Space Coast Day, District District 1. >> Thank you. Um, and I'm so sorry. Uh, I just want to make sure, do we have to
approve the minutes first? >> Yeah, but we'll get this out of the way. We'll come back to this. >> Logan would Oh, you're awesome. Thank you. You already got it up. Um, so I I wanted to bring this forward um because I uh Mr. Anderson came and proposed this
to me um designating March 21st as Space Coast Day, honoring Bvard County's Spaceflight Legacy, Innovation, and Countdown Spirit, inspiring future generations. So, Mr. Anderson and Miss Petro, would you mind coming to the podium and I'll read the resolution and
then um each of you will be able to say a few words if that's all right. This resolution is on behalf of the Bvard County Board of County Commissioners designating March 21st, 2026 as Space Coast Day. Whereas Bvard
County, Florida, known worldwide as the Space Coast, has played a central and historic role in the advancement of space exploration and scientific innovation. And whereas the Space Coast is home to Kennedy Space Center, Cape Canaveral Space Force Station, and
numerous aerospace companies and institutions that have propelled humanity to new frontiers. from launching the first Americans into space, sending astronauts to the moon and beyond. And whereas the date March
21st written numer numer numerically um as 321 symbolizes a countdown to launch reflecting the enduring spirit of discovery, innovation, and forward
momentum that defines our region. And whereas Robert Osband championed the adoption of the 321 area code in as a living symbol of the Space Coast's aerospace heritage, transforming
the iconic countdown into unifying civic identity worthy of recognition on Space Coast Day. And whereas Bvard County residents take pride in their contributions to both national and international achievements in space and
continue to inspire future generations to look forward to look toward the stars through education, technology, and exploration. And whereas it is fitting and proper to recognize and celebrate the past, present, and future of space
flight and aerospace leadership rooted in Bvard County. Now, now therefore, be it resolved that the board of county commissioners designate March 21st as Space Coast Day in honor of the region's
legacy and future in space exploration and to promote continued public interest, education, and pride in our local contributions to humanity's reach into space. done, ordered, and adopted in regular session this 13th day of
January, 2026. >> Thank you. Yes. >> So moved. >> Oh, I I was wait I'll motion. >> I'll second. >> There's a motion. Is there a second? >> Yeah, I second. >> Oh, you second. >> I was waiting for her motion, sir. >> Okay. All those in favor signify by saying yay.
>> Yeah. >> Motion passed. Thank you. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Like for you to say a few words and >> Yes. if you don't mind, I'll go first and then uh let the NASA administrator follow up. Um first of all, I want to thank the commissioners um even Mr. Goodson who isn't with us tonight and
especially uh Commissioner Delaney for uh kind of falling in love with this idea last year. Uh I've actually been working on this for four years trying to get this done and um so uh so I appreciate this is kind of the beginning of something that I envision in the
future. I don't know if any of you are familiar with Tampa, but they do a gas barilla event every year. They do pirates and they do pirate ships, but we're going to do space themed because um Star Trek said that space is our final frontier. So, we're going to have
parades, but not with pirates. We're going to have spacemen and Martians and uh um all kinds of space themed projects. And uh we really want to get the uh school board involved with this as well. So I envision in five or 10
years from now this is going to be a really big deal. Some people think it's not uh uh I know that the uh the chambers of commerce I think should run with this. I think the tourism development council should kind of help and push this forward. I think this is a big deal for Bvard County and I'm very thankful for you guys to have us
tonight. >> Well, thank you. I will add my thanks to the um commissioners and in particular to um Commissioner Delaney for inviting me uh here tonight to support. I'm very honored to be here and support this
resolution recognizing the 21st of March as Space Coast Day in Bvard County. For those of you who don't know me, I'm Janet Petro. I'm the director of the Kennedy Space Center. And it really is an honor to be here and add my voice uh to this um uh proclamation and celebrate
the unique and vital ties between the space coast and the advancement of space exploration over the last several decades. So I share this often. My legacy uh with NASA began long before the first day that I uh went on to
Kennedy Space Center. I'm a local girl and in the um grew up here uh in the early days of America's space race, my uh father moved our family down from Michigan to the space coast where he worked out at the center for um Mercury
Gemini and the um space shuttle uh program. So, I grew up watching launches uh from the beaches and I still uh vividly remember um one of my college spring breaks when I came home and saw the space shuttle roll out of the VAB towards the pad for the very first time.
And I know this is my story, but I know that it resonates very deeply with many many people here on the space coast. And I I think you would be very hardressed to find anybody in Bvard and even beyond who doesn't have a personal story connecting them with the space program
and the inspiration that our nation's space program has brought them. More than 60 years ago, the Kenny Space Center was established to meet the goal of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to Earth. And in the decades that followed, the Kennedy Space Center served as a launching point
for some of the AY's most impactful missions. A daring pursuit to launch a man into orbit made way for the more audacious goal of sending a man to the moon. And a simple orbiting laboratory paved the way to an international collaboration that enabled continuous
human presence for more than a quarter of century this year. Our achievements are many, but they aren't meant to be celebrated and tucked away into the history text. These bold endeavors serve to remind us of what's possible when we dare to dream, to innovate, to question,
and push beyond the boundaries of what we know. In the coming weeks, if you all don't know, the Space Coast once again is going to be the focus as the eyes of the world turn to watch a historic launch of Artemis 2, which is sending humans back to the moon's pole for the
first time in more than 50 years. This crew test is going to build on the success of Artemis 1, but this time we're going to have four astronauts on on top of it. So, the excitement uh in this county uh and on the space coast is going to be unparalleled.
And while Kennedy might be synonymous with accomplishments of the past, we're looking ahead to ensure the legacy we've built will last long into the future. For the first time in the cent's history, Kennedy along with our other Space Force partners um launched more
than 100 missions from the space coast in 2025, which was a um historic record. And while the impressive, this number doesn't just represent our highest launch cadence to date. It reflects a specialized support that's unique to our
center. providing millions of cubic feet of gaseous commodities and hundreds of thousands of gallons of liquid propellant, coordinating thousands of transport actions, executing hundreds of partnership agreements while meeting the AY's mission, supporting national
security launches, and enabling an ever growing commercial demand for access to space is something that can only happen one place on Earth, and that is right here at the Kenny Space Center. As we celebrate in the United States 250 years of daring, exploring, and
pioneering spirit from which the nation was born, Artemis is going to serve as that big, beautiful candle that illuminates the strength, innovation, and perseverance for which America is best known. And as Florida celebrates the establishment of 321 day in
recognition of the Space Coast's beautiful history, I invite you all to join me in the anticipation, excitement, and the celebration of the new chapter of space exploration we're writing together as we go back to the moon and beyond. So, thank you again. I really
appreciate uh you all voting on this and um supporting it and I'm honored to be here to support it as well. Thank you so much. Oh, absolutely. But we're we will do that. I think the whole commission should come down. Really honored that you would be here as our center director, our leader who's you said it,
the NASA administrator. You ran all of NASA. So, thank you for your public service in the Army serving as our NASA administrator. And it's good to have you back as the center director for the >> Great to be back. Great to be back.
>> Good to be back. Thank you. It's a great honor having you here and this says a lot that you're here. Let's get a >> I would love to invite the rest of the board to >> If I could have Gabriel from the space museum. They uh they helped launch this a couple of years ago. >> Thank you. >> Do you want to do it in front of kind of
the sign? >> Yeah, I want to do it if we can. >> We'll do it in front of the lectern here and get that in the back. Okay. >> I'll stand here and everybody else can get off. That's awesome. Sure, >> Gabriel.
>> I'll go the other side. >> That's how we do it. >> Just keep smiling. >> Thank you so much. >> Yeah. >> Thank you so much. Great words. >> Thank you so much. >> My dad brought us down here.
>> Close enough. >> Well, great way to start a meeting. Really is. Okay, we'll go back to the minutes. Uh um um minutes for approval October 28th, 2025 regular meeting. Is there any
>> discussion? Motion to approve and a second. All in favor favor signify by saying yay. >> Yay. >> I >> motion carries unanimously. Thank you. >> Okay. Um next item is a presentation regarding
uh POS chemicals and drinking water district one. >> Thank you. Um I um I have a companion item for this. Um but I I asked our guest to come today um
because Stell Bailey is a globally recognized POS advocate and cancer survivor who has played a role in securing the first ever national drinking water standards for POS and millions of dollars for military veterans, firefighters, and communities
impacted by contamination. Her work has been nationally recognized for advancing en uh environmental health transparency and accountability and for turning personal experience into meaningful uh policy change. And so with
that I would love to ask Miss Bailey to come and um give her presentation. Good evening. Is this timed? >> Do is this timed? >> Is this presentation timed? >> What are you looking for in terms of >> five to seven minutes at most?
>> Perfect. Okay, that's great. Perfect. >> Uh, I just want to thank this this board, good evening, for allowing me to come and do a presentation on POS, also known as Forever Chemicals, and what they are and why they matter to Bvard County.
Um, we're going to start off with what are P.O.S. They're uh also known as per and polyphlloral substances as I just said, also known as forever chemicals. You might hear that there's over 12,000 identified compounds globally. So for
instance, you may see your PFOA, PFOS, PF, and it just goes on and on and on. People think it's just one chemical and on a national level uh we do have standards set for PFOA and PFOS which
has a lot of studies behind it. Um they were designed to repel heat, stain and water and that's what made them useful but that's also what made them dangerous. And what makes POS so different from other chemicals is the
bond that holds them together. The carbon florine bond is one of the strongest bonds in chemistry. That bond is why Pas resist heat and breakdown, persist in groundwater and accumulate in human blood and organs. POS is not
naturally occurring. It's a man-made chemical. So where do POS enter the drinking water? They were used for decades in things like firefighting foam, industrial fluids, landfills, pesticide containers, waterproof
fabrics, and are in bioolids. Over time, those chemicals washed into the ground slowly moved into groundwater. The same groundwater that many communities use for drinking water. Places with airports, military sites, farming,
landfills or advanced manufacturing tend to see more POS in groundwater because those activities used POAS for many many years. What we see today though is usually from something h not not from something happening right now. It's
known as legacy contamination. It's older pollution that has been moving underground also known as a plume from a long time ago. aka legacy contamination. You can do source tracing tracing, but
in the meantime, the first and foremost thing we can do is inform communities about POS, what it is to help them make informed decisions on their drinking water filters. Why PAOS is not just another chemical. Most chemicals degrade or leave the
body. POS persist and accumulate over time, meaning it builds up in your body. Even small exposures contribute to the total body burden. Drinking water creates continuous exposure.
So what the science shows is that POS is linked to kidney and testicular cancer. I just want to reiterate this takes time. This is a long-term exposure. This doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen tomorrow. It happens over time as you drink your water for years and years
and years when you have it in your water. thyroid disease, immune system suppression. That part is really important because that can lead to cancer, elevated cholesterol, pregnancy impacts, low birth weight, developmental effects. And I just want to point out that the most vulnerable are pregnant
women, infants, and children because POS interferes with the developing systems. These health effects show up much after much long after term exposure, not right away, but over time. Now, understanding the numbers, you're going to frequently hear that parts per trillion is just a
drop in an Olympic size pool, but I want to reiterate again that it may sound tiny, but that's because POS is biologically active at extremely low levels. Um, POS causes harm at levels too small
to taste or see. So, you can't see it, you can't taste it, which also makes it ex extremely worrisome and concerning for people. Risk comes from years of exposure, not a single glass. And standards exist because the science shows harm at these levels. We're talking CDC, the Academy of Sciences,
ATSDR. The science backs it up. So why should Bvoulevard County care about this PAS issue? Well, first of all, we do live in the aerospace place of Boulevard County, right? In the in the nation. We should be leading
these things with technology. Um, states like Michigan uh test all of their public water systems and share their results online to be a lot more transparent with their community. Bvard County relies on
groundwater sources for their drinking water. The population growth increase actually increases your um water demand. So, our aquifers are becoming depleted to the point where we're starting to see conversations about turning sewage into drinking water. So that should be a
concern for everyone and long-term planning reduces future costs and of course water quality affects public trust. Again, the other communities across um the United States, cities like North Carolina and Colorado, they test and
disclose. They plan long-term infrastructure solutions, communicate clearly with residents, and they avoid their costly emergencies reactions later. And so these are things we want to see happening because it's steady improvements in clear communication. It's really um as simple as that because
we have to go back to the fact that this is legacy contamination that we're mostly seeing. Um in closing, BVAR County has always been known for leading in aerospace technology and innovation. Managing modern water challenges is part of the same tradition. Understanding PIFAS and planning ahead helps keep Bard
a place people want to work, live, and invest. and thank you so much for um affording me this opportunity to come up here and speak on PAS chemicals. >> Um thank you. It's such a Are there any
questions? >> I just have one thing to one statement >> and I have a question too. I know I've attended numerous >> workshops, hearings, lectures, and uh sitting on the Florida military defense support task force with all of our
military bases having such he serious PA challenge. Probably the most depressing issue of all. I mean, it's a sense easy to develop a sense of hopelessness because the solutions are so difficult. Do you believe it's possible for us to
get ahead of this problem and fix it? >> I do. And I think the first because drinking water is a source of exposure that is worse than say dermal exposure right now. And I think we can combat that at the bare minimum and then we can
start doing source detecting and figuring out where the sources are and combat that. It's going to be a long-term uh issue that we're going to continuously be combating. But however, at the bare minimum, we need to be protecting people's drinking water and making that a priority.
>> You go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you so much for coming today. And um I I just wanted to kind of give this topic some some air time because I really feel like we are in a unique situation in Bvard County. We have all
these incredibly talented and smart people here and um I I just believe that when we bring everybody together on a topic like this, innovation and and um you know talent, everybody cares about public health. So I I'm encouraged that,
you know, this conversation is going to continue and to work with our partners to hopefully get, you know, these technologies going, figure out the sources, figure out um different technologies to, um, you know, get it cleaned up because this isn't something
that is a Bvard County problem. This is everywhere. And so um, I just really believe in, um, you know, being a leader in this topic. And um I just really appreciate Stell and everything you've done not only for our community but for
our country because you know you didn't talk a lot about the things that you've accomplished but um Miss Bailey was at the table when these discussions um nationally were going on getting a um
national uh national rating for um people. >> Yeah. national drinking water standards and a super fun designation and millions of dollars to the DoD to clean it up, >> right? >> Millions billions. >> Billions. Yeah. >> Yes.
>> Thank you so much for all your all you do. >> Thank you so much for this bringing helping bringing more attention to this incredibly serious challenge that we have. Thank you >> and we will follow up. Our next item on the agenda is our consent agenda. Do we have any items
that that anyone would like to pull on the consent? >> Oh, nope. Not on the consent. >> Okay. No items to pull on the consent. >> Move to approve. >> It's a motion uh on the consent. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Second.
Debate. All those in favor signify by saying >> I >> I >> I. Motion carries unanimously. Okay, we'll move on to >> public comments.
Public comments. We have two public comment uh cards. >> We have Gerald Classen. >> Sassen. >> Okay. Sassen,
but nobody can say my name. >> Oh, wow. But I like that name. It's a cool sounding name. >> Is that my time right there? Excuse me. Is that my time? >> Good evening.
Um, I would like to understand or just I'm going to ask you to justify increasing my property tax by 7.0. 08% last year at my house. That's all I I don't I'm not going to fight. I want to ask you to justify that please.
>> I'm sorry. Can you repeat that question? >> My property tax can I need a little bit more time back then? My property tax increased from 4882 to 5228 last year, which is an increase of 7.08%.
Please tell me why you absolutely had to take 7% more of my money. >> Justify it. You guys took it from me. Justify it. >> Mr. Chair, I mean, we can't give an answer without knowing the the parcel and what
>> why did you have to take 7% more of my money in property tax at my house last year? That's all I'm asking. You didn't let us finish. But property taxes are more than just county. There's city, there's school board, there's St. John's. >> I live in Merit Island, sir. The only people who take my tax are you. >> Okay. Well, there's also school board.
So, it depends on, you know, what the tax. There's multiple tax rates. So, some go up. >> I'm not going to answer me, sir. >> I can't give you the answer because I don't know the information. I'm just letting you. >> Okay. Could you give us a copy of your tax bill? >> No, sir. I I I I don't I'm not I you I
don't want to get off off track here. I wanted to know did you guys justify it? I can see you not want to justify it. Now I live in the Merit Island. I own a house in Merit Island. That's where you took my interest rate by 7%. I also own
a a commercial property which I'm unable to use because of the county keeping me from doing it. But Peter has it made us a different story. Um where my tax increased by 8%. Justify that difference. Why 7% of my
house and 8% of my commercial property? Justify that please if you can. That's why I'm here. I'm I I'm I think I I I I I'm owed that answer. Why? Anybody? Well,
sir, if you can provide us your um your tax information, we could give you more >> a more ed or give us your give you your parcel number or your address. We can look it up. >> Do you know why? Why? Can you know why? I can tell you why. >> How much of it was of your budget went
to 2.5 >> billion dollars? That is why >> from 1.4 44 10 years ago, 140%
increase. While the population increased by 1818, you increased my taxes and everybody else taxes by 140%. Justify that. >> Well, we will do that. We'll take a look
at it. I'll look up your >> publicly, please. >> We will. We'll do that next meeting. we'll get the information. We want to answer you as well as we can. So, we appreciate your concern. >> Okay. Thank you so much. >> Thank you.
>> Okay. Sandra Sullivan. Sandra Sullivan. Good evening and happy new year. Um, so first of all, when we were at the last meeting, there was a conversation in the same agenda item that you gave to
a CRA that had no debt that you could close. You gave them $12.1 million. Meanwhile, on the same agenda item, you talked about raising our taxes and doing away with the 3% tax cap. I want to bring this up. So I understood from that
meeting that the lagoon workshop was going to discuss moving monies to storm water flooding and sewage to to kind of prevent take preventative action to not raise our taxes.
And I was very disappointed by the dog and pony show that we got for a sales pitch. Even worse, you know, then we come to find out that one of the commission offices spent $1,100 and change for one of the presentations here
to to do a sales pitch. Um, we're paying I did a record with Florida Tech. We're paying them money for MUK research despite the fact that the grant ended in 2023. And then I'm wondering, okay, so we got
$168.5 million unallocated and we have a lot of money not spent. So why does the new 2026 draft plan address the issues of infrastructure? We have an infrastructure crisis.
We have South Beaches in your budget from last year, $50 million just to bring it up to speed to AWT and another 30 million for the deep injection well because hey, you know, Florida Boulevard is been identified by
the EPA where the groundwater deep injection well comes up to the groundwater and yet it's only funded by $2.4 4 million in sorrel, which is why when the contract was awarded in 2022,
nothing has been done. We've had millions of gallons dumped, consent orders because we're supposed to not dump anything that's not AWT to the river, but we dumped to the river. This
was 21 million gallons in 2022, 2023 dumped to the river. And we're have consent orders because our plants are not up to AWT but not adequately funded by Sorrel and that was a promise to the taxpayers. We were also promised to
match the state funding and the county got 12 million from the state in 2022. So that's not happening. And then I looked at the muck numbers. Okay. So you awarded the Ogalli MUK project.
That's a for another day to talk about the NASA project in the last plan was $250 million for the NASA for the Banana River probably POS contamination and in here it's only in there for 10
million. All of the MUK projects have been devalued so low that the numbers are not even realistic in the plan. We got mocked That is our final card for public hearings. Uh item we have no items under
unfinished business new business development environmental services group J1 approval of contract for sale purchases from Brookside Development. >> Good evening board. Um J1 is a contract for sale and purchase from Brookside Development for the lift station B06
relocation project corner of North Riverside Drive and Third Avenue in Indie Atlantic District 5. It is in support of utility services. Um the sale price is $495,000. >> Do you have any cards, sir? >> No. >> I'll make a motion to approve them.
>> Motion to approve. Second. All in favor signify by saying I. I. >> Motion carries. J2. >> J2 is a approval for contract for sale and purchase from Evans Wickham LLC for future enhancements to Bard County's
utility system along North Wickham Road in District 4. Um, and the uh price would be $745,000. Okay, we do have two cards and I think we have some first question from the
>> um so uh Eddie, would you mind um sharing with me a little bit or with us a bit about um what the utilities intends to use this property for? And also can you give us some explanation
about um on the agenda item it says um public works department is in control of this item and will you talk through us how uh who pays for this and um that type of stuff?
>> Okay. Um so I'm going to answer your second question first. Um and with Mark being here and I hope I say this correctly. So all departments when we do land acquisition the land acquisition group falls under public works and thus
that's why it falls under a public works item. With regard to the payment the department in this case utility services um upon approval would be sending this to the title company at which point it
gets distributed to the homeowner >> out of utilities budget. >> That is correct. >> Okay. Thank you. And then the property. >> So the the uh the property is attractive because um along Wickcham Road which literally goes from the treatment plant
all the way south of Panita that is a major transmit force main transmission line. This property sits approximately in the midway point. So as we're looking for opportunities for improvements with the hydraulic performance of that force
main but also adjacent, this would be the location that we would utilize for that >> and that would give some protection if there was say a backup or something that there wouldn't be um
it wouldn't be in the streets basically. >> Yeah. Every every project we do on the improvement of hydraulics lowers the probability of backups occurring. >> Thank you. >> Two cards. >> Sorry. No other questions. We have two
cards. First one is Richard Heffel Finger. Good job. >> He finger. >> I should know that by heart by now. A >> lot of people don't get it. Uh, Richard Hefinger, District 1, 2000 Coco for Juniper Drive, Coco, Florida.
Um, I had some questions and I and I think my commissioner kind of answered it. This is being paid for by Oops. This is being paid for by public works or but where that money comes out of general fund, right? Essentially, you fund >> public works.
>> Um, this this is a utility services project um chair. So this would be funded by utility services. >> Okay. >> Utility fees. >> Okay. Wouldn't this qualify for sorrel matching? >> May I?
>> Um this project is outside of the Indian River Lagoon basin. So the answer would be no. >> But it's a infrastructure improvement that would keep water from the lagoon. Or is that not true? >> Yes. Um so chair as we develop projects associated with this we'll also be
reviewing um avenues for funding whether it's soral fd or other sources. Step one is to acquire the land. Step two is then to develop projects that would um be applicable for grants and funding.
I was just thinking that my the reason asked that is the sorrel money does get has a purpose as previously stated I think by the previous speaker to to improve infrastructure which would take the burden off of already our utilities. So if you throw that in the pool, I
think they have a lot more money than maybe public works does to support this. And if you're buying the land for that reason to help with your drainage to prevent because all of our sewage is a threat to that lagoon. True or false? Water processing overflows. So the more
you do that, I think it qualifies for sorrel. And if you've got extra sorrel money that's already been collected, that would be a good reason to save some of that other public works so that you don't have to increase my taxes on my real estate. that that's all I'm trying to defend. So, that's the only questions I had. And it's interesting that
although I looked up a little bit on it, they approached you about the sale. That looks like they're looking to get rid of it. I hope they're not going to profit too much. Um, that's it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Sandra Sullivan.
>> Sandra Sullivan. The issue I have with a couple of the agenda items is just a lack of transparency for accountability. Um it would be a lot easier if there was some attachments to some of the documents
which there's not. Um, and I I I want to make a mention is the big picture from the budget workshops is we don't have enough money for infrastructure, but here we are taking on more obligations.
Um, it's kind of interesting. We're acquiring this one, but we just sold a piece on Barnes Road that was on the main road. You could use the same justification there, putting in a lift station. So, um I just I think there's
what we have is a concern with our sewage treatment plants being at or near capacity and we have all this growth and I guess the question of the day is and thank you for asking the questions and getting the answers is how are you going
to pay for it all? Like it's great but this will come out of utility fund to pay for this. They'll, you know, there's restrictions on utility land and then at the end of the day you sit on it, but what are you doing to address
the fundamental issue of that we have a fiscal crisis with so much growth and we have so much more growth and we have so many mandates. How do you plan to address the growth for the can that's been kicked down the road for so long without
raising our taxes? >> Next item is >> Well, why did we didn't we didn't take it up yet? >> Oh, yeah. That's right. >> I I'll tell you. I'm going to make a a motion uh for this, Mr. Chair. Um, one one of the things I've and I I appreciate uh that we're we're we're
here. There's very limited opportunity on Wickcham Road to put a lift station, a tank, anything for reuse, retention. It's it's uh it's it's tough along there in that corridor. Um especially Sunry, there's just not going to be this
opportunity again. So, I I appreciate that we're um we're we're doing this today to get this done. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Any other discussion? Motion to approve be in order. >> So, I made the motion. Second.
>> Second. >> I made the motion. I think Commissioner Delaney second. Thank you, sir. >> All in favor signify by saying I. >> I. Motion carries. Thank you. Uh J3 approval to use the construction
manager at risk the CM AR uh for the utility services department capital projects identified. Any questions? We do have one card. Sandra Sullivan I think Sandra Sullivan. Again this is an item
without any details. So just for anyone listening, a construction manager at risk is someone, it's a design build. So they design it and then they build it. It's the way that things are done today. It's a very sensible way to go about your utility services. It takes load off
the county to where they're not doing all the design and the but it probably raises expenses a bit. But um that's so again we come to you know who are the
vendors because I look I don't see I don't I don't see a corresponding did you go out to bid for somebody in vendor link or it does this relate to an existing set of vendors who are doing
uh types of services already for utility services. So I'd like to see some clarification on that. Um, and then you know how does this is this says for capital projects identified? Well, we have lots of capital projects identified
and we don't have enough funding for them. So, we're according to vendor link, we're going out and you just selected a bond council. So, obviously there's an intent this year to go out and do debt. So, I think a little bit
more explanation is in order. Thanks. Okay, Mr. Chair, just uh I think Eddie was going to introduce the item. Maybe that maybe that would be helpful. Um >> Sure. >> You want to give us a quick >> Sure. Just uh so just what a quick overview of what constru uh construction
manager at risk is. Um these are all projects we identified what we're looking at for the time being and what the idea of this is we do a request for qualifications. Um, the reason why there isn't anything on what vendor link is because we wanted
to get your approval before proceeding in that direction. Um, when you do a request for qualifications for a construction manager, we're looking at contractors that they have expertise in utility projects and
specific to the ones listed. The advantage of this is that we that we engage with the contractor during the design phase. We already have an engineer procured. But what you're getting is a few of the advantages which
is identifying um lead times on critical items that can be preurchased in order to um make the job shorter in terms of the construction. we get um cost estim we get cost not cost estimates of actual
construction costs versus an engineer's estimate that provides a variance of plus or minus. So as we proceed into debt service or even grant applications we'll have a more precise number of what that is. The um the other added
advantages by having the contractor engaged during the design phase is that any items that are identified in the construction phase but were um visible during the design are not eligible for
change orders. So we greatly reduce change orders. we greatly reduce any questions about the design um dur you know about the design or the constructability and the construction phase. So it really is a more streamline
process to get these critical projects going. >> Thank you Eddie. I appreciate that. Um I'm just going to take over for a few minutes. Um do we have any other questions from the board? >> Thank you. Um I I also wanted to um mention something that you said to me in
our briefing yesterday um was that doing it this way also stops the ability of change orders. The price that they give us is the price they give us. >> That is correct. So, a lot of times when we go out for RFP, um, we'll get a price and then six months down the line once they're in the
project, they'll go, "Oh, well, now we actually have to spend this money and >> so on and so forth." So, this will lock us into a price, too. So, >> that is correct. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Anything else? Do I have a motion? >> So moved.
>> I'll second. >> All those in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. >> Motion approved. Thank you. >> We are now on J4. >> There we go. Thank you, Madam Vice Chair. Um, this is we're asking a
request to reschedule the January 22nd workshop to March 19th. That's the budget workshop. Um, you already have one scheduled for January 29th. We're asking to do this uh because we had some uh scheduling issues. Um, so just we're asking for approval. Once you approve it, then we'll get the calendar and the
websites updated. >> Okay. Thank you. We have a couple cards on this. Um, do we want to have comment from us first or would you like to hear the >> public comments? >> Um, I had one question and then I think the cards >> my two cents. >> Yep.
>> Um, public works is going to go first though, right? This isn't is this or is this moving public works to that date? >> Yeah. Um I I don't have the order off the top of my head. The four subjects uh for the first workshop are our annual color of money uh showing where the you
know general fund uh public works, utilities, and storm water are the three departments we'll be presenting. >> Thank you. Anybody else up here? No. Okay. Our first speaker card is Richard Heelinger. Richard Helfinger, District 1. Um, I
don't want to make this long. I was just concerned that in the past we've kind of been caught with our pants down, the citizens with their pants down about time to digest the information. And I was a just a little concerned or I could ask the question, why did we have to move it all the way to March? Because if
those are are important departments and maybe you I don't know what departments they were supposed to be pitching. second or in the second week, but that's just more time that we don't have to look at them. And it's it's now you could how about we come up with an agreement to
kind of help me out a little. How about if you posted the presentations early but delayed the presentations? In other words, would it be possible to post the departments that were going to pitch up on the legisar on
the date the meeting was going to happen? that way at least we get we get time to look at it because it's already pretty difficult for the citizens that you give us you know typically these meetings Tuesdays we see them Friday although I did think this agenda was out on Thursday I was shocked um but that
doesn't give us much time to look at it and we can't we'd like I would like to personally my point of view I would like to be able to have time to go through the material ask you guys questions so that I don't blindside you with questions when I come up here to public meeting and I appreciate that the new
chair is actually addressing and taking on some of the questions. But I don't like blindsiding you. I'd like you to give you time. And in the past, I've tried to do that when the time didn't seem to be used. But I know that some of you guys look at those issues and say, "Hey, you know, this guy may have a point and we should answer that question." like about you know a comment
about sometimes that legisar is under seriously underused where you have the opportunity to put more information up there and I'll address that in some one of my later items too but that's that resource is really for you guys I assume to bring all that information together and mostly for us we get to see the
visibility you've heard these people cry for public records if you put it up there I bet your cries for public records would go way down now of course that's going to hurt you financially because you charge money for public we won't go into that but I think the use of the legisl and if you guys could maybe possibly commit to putting that
stuff up a little earlier because you know we the workshops are a waste of time if the if the population doesn't get a chance to engage unless that's the intent. Oh no I didn't say that. So that that's all I'm asking for. Maybe a compromise is to get those pitches up earlier so we don't have to wait all the way to March. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Our next speaker is Sandra Sullivan. Can I just clarify one thing real quick? >> Sure. >> Um I I just want to make sure I'm not confused by this. The 29th is still happening and that's when the the color
of money public works, storm water, and utilities. Correct. Will be okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Sand >> Sandra Sullivan. Um South Patrick Shores. So I am vehemently delay um
opposed to a delay in the budget. Um there was a statement made the other day uh at the um workshop for sorrel uh that suggested that that was going to be moved pretty quickly and get it early
out there. And I think the two conversations are interwined because by state statute, Bvard County is only allowed one infrastructure sax. And I want to bring up, you had a $2.2
billion budget as of last year's budget that equaled the amount of the entire budget for the county. The entire county budget went up to 2.8. So, who knows what that one is. And the analysis was in this pink. All of this
for these other counties is an infrastructure syax that they're using to meet their crisis in roads. And we seriously have to look at restructuring the infrastructure s tax to also handle
sewage infrastructure all aspects of infrastructure. I mean, we're we're we're spending that on grass clipping, marketing, which is not even a capital expense and I would allege not legal under the muck tax. Um, but the
bottom line is you're looking at raising our taxes. You said that in the last meeting to address the flooding, existing flooding, existing sewage, plus we have a crisis on on roads. The the infrastructure issue
has is because the commission for 25 years kicked the cannon down the road and did not update impact fees. So, we're in the crisis now and now we have to fix the crisis and we can't just keep going, okay, we'll just wait and then
and then put the tax and raise the taxes, which you mentioned in the last meeting. Major new projects underway. This is for just sewage infrastructure, $431 million. Now, Sorro, by comparison, is $585
million. How are you going to pay for that? Because we've had projects that have been contracted since 2022 for South Beaches. It's not the money to fund it. And you guys aren't fiscal
conservatives. If you're talking about raising our taxes, when you have a tax source available and stop the waste, we need to doge sorrel. >> Thank you. Do I have a motion to approve the rescheduling of the budget workshop? >> I move approval.
>> Second. >> All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Motion carries. >> Thank you. J5. Thank you. Um, so I would like to ask Don to come up first to um give us a
short um overview of of uh the SER program if that's all right. >> But Commissioner, hang on. I if the board's okay with it. I mean, this is the commissioner's agenda item.
So, you know, we didn't have the presentation put in the uh package or anything. So, I mean, he's got one prepared, but it's if the board wants us to present, we can give an overview of the SEIR program. >> I'm happy to hear an overview. Does anybody have any thoughts? >> I'm fine, too. >> Yeah.
>> Thank you. >> All right. Good evening, commissioners. Just a real quick brief on this. Uh, the citizens oversight, excuse me, the county charter commission put together the Sears program uh based on public comment and added it to the charter in
2010. And it was basically meant as a model for people to contribute efficiency and effectiveness ideas to help the county save money. And this was all Morris has spoken on this in the past. It was during a time of recession. They were doing furlows with the county
and it was just a trying to look for any type of money saving uh and effectiveness ideas that the county could incorporate uh into its day-to-day operations. Uh just over the past uh 10 or 12 years we've gotten uh roughly 253
Sears. I would tell you the majority of those have come in just within the last couple years. We probably of those 253 about 160 of those just in the past two or three years. Uh and some of the examples of some of the Sears that have been approved uh last year they did the
ADA swing for Rotary Park. Uh, and there was a lot of low impact development ideas that were contributed last year and I guess the commission uh is looking for ways to incorporate some of those ideas into into uh future legislation.
Uh, and some other updates. Uh, for the first time ever, we had a SpeakUp Breard workshop on March 3rd of this past year. Uh, in September 3rd, the board voted 4 to one to make no changes to the Sears program just to keep it as it is. Uh and
just in preparation for this year's SEIR program which runs from January 1st to January 31st, we ran a press release on December 19th uh letting citizens know that this was opening up. Uh the program runs from January 1st through the 31st
uh every year. Uh previously it ran during December. So last year it was added uh or moved to January. We also did a press release on December 26. So, we gave citizens uh basically two heads up that this was coming and then we also had posted it on social media uh in
advance of January 1st. Once we receive all the sears by January 31st, the the charter gives the county manager's office uh 90 days to work up recommendations to review all those sears that we receive. Uh we do quite an
extensive uh review of all those. We put a lot of work into the preparation of our recommendations and then once we have those recommendations together uh we present those to the board of county commissioners. I think last year that was sometime in April. Yeah. Uh and the
charter gives us some options. We can recommend that the SEIR is approved by the board. We can recommend that it's rejected by the board. Or it may be a recommendation that while we can't incorporate the entire thing because we may be doing some of it already, there
may be parts of the recommendation that we can incorporate and so the board has an option to accept that recommendation with revisions. Uh what we also do once we receive the recommendations, everyone that puts in a recommendation provides us an email
address or a home address, their name, uh they give us their idea of what they're wanting the county to look into, and then we notify them in advance of when the board is going to take those recommendations up for scrutiny and and uh approval or rejection. Uh, you know,
one of the things that we do as far as transparency is we've posted all those SEIR recommendations on the county web page. Uh, they are searchable and everyone that puts in a SEIR recommendation can see what other people are putting in. Um,
and then uh I just wanted to mention too, we there are we have I'm trying to think of the way I want to say this. we have uh options to determine if some of the recommendations
that we receive are out of the county's jurisdiction. So, we have obviously we have constitutional offices. We have the sheriff's office that is over animal services. Last year, we received a lot of animal services uh recommendations. Uh we don't ignore those. Uh they are
ultimately still brought before the board, but what we do with those when we receive them, we don't just ignore them. We submit those to the sheriff's office, but we don't tell the sheriff what to do, but we let him know that we received this as part of the program, and if the sheriff decides to take action on it,
that that's his prerogative. But regardless of what the sheriff does, when the board receives whatever staff recommendations are brought together after 90 days, those will still be included in that. So, you'll still have a chance to look at those once once all this is done. So anyway, and then just
to mention, as we've done in the past, we do receive service requests as part of the recommendations. There's a pothole in front of my driveway. It's hasn't been filled in two months. You know, can you please send somebody out to fill it? Well, that's not really a SEIR recommendation. That's that's a service recommendation. So, what we've
done this year is we've we didn't change anything in the program, but in the write up about what you need to do to submit a SER, we've added some caveats that look, if this is a service request, this is where you need to go to put that request in. Uh, if this is something that maybe not involved the county per
se, but is some type of a county office or something, you know, maybe you might want to consider doing this instead. Have you contacted your commissioner about this idea? because there are other ways that citizens can provide us feedback any day of the year, including up here at this lectern. Uh, and so we
just want people to be aware that those options always exist, not just from the days of January 1st through the 31st. So that's pretty much the program in a nutshell. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Do we have any questions? >> I had just a little bit more. I'm so
sorry. Um, I wanted to thank the county manager's office and Don and your team. um for the amount of press and preparation we had for this year's Sears program. It was it was great to see so much out there on social media and um
getting the word out for our public. So, I just want you guys to know that I really appreciate that. I see that change and um that was really great. Um, I I just wanted to um
mention that um this year, as as those of us up here know, we lost somebody in our community that um I like to call she was the citizen ambassador for this program. And so I'm requesting that if we do go ahead and go forward with this
workshop, I would love to honor Susan B. Connelly um and name this workshop after her. um she she was just an incredible person that was very passionate. She went all over the county um speaking on this program and uh I got an email from
some we all got an email from uh a bunch of people but this one in particular really stood out. Um I'm just going to read a a small excerpt from it. Um, in speaking with Miss Connelly, one of the things she was most passionate about was the Speak Up Revard program and allowing
the public more access to local government. She was a huge proponent of the project and she were and if she were still here with us, no doubt she would have been in attendance for today's discussion regarding Speak
Up Bard. Although I'm not able to attend in person in herstead, I wanted to reach out to all of you to state how important it is that it um that it is the speak up of our workshops are for the community. Ultimately, we are beholden to the
communities that entrust us as public leaders. Giving the public a forum to express their concerns and ideas in an open and meaningful way only serves to strengthen the bonds with those communities and garner ideas for um that
matter most to them. And with that, I just wanted to um play a short um a short video of just some of her words that um she I think it was probably one of her last times here in this chamber talking to us and it just happened to be
on this program. And I just wanted to um share that because it was just such a beautiful um her heart was was uh so invested in this program. And Logan, if you wouldn't mind playing that for me. Good evening, commissioners.
I'm Susan Connelly, Palm Bay, Florida. For me, Speak Up Breard offers an opportunity for a new level of citizen engagement that goes beyond public comment into committed
collaboration between citizens and their government. Throughout Florida, there are similar programs. Orange County has connect, city of Miami has Forever Ideas, City of Tampa Envision,
Palm Beach County Input Initiatives, and City of Melbourne has several programs for community feedback. None of these, however, have a dedicated program like Speak Up with its clear process for submitting and reviewing
citizen solutions for general government operations. None of these programs have a structured method calling for solution proposals with a defined submission period and a subsequent review by government staff.
Some of these programs focus on urban planning and development. However, none of them focus on the broader goal of efficiency and effectiveness of government operations. None of them have formalized
presentations before a commission. How does it make you feel to be innovative and a leader? It makes me feel very proud of Bvard County, my government. Brevard County is the first to see the
necessity and benefit of citizens and government collaborating for the purpose of solutions for local government issues. Bvard County made SEIR, which is citizen efficiency and effectiveness
recommendation, a household word before Doge became a government department. I have participated two years in speak up regard. The process is not perfect. However, the process can be improved. In
fact, a group of citizens, I am one, calling ourselves the SEIR process Improvement Group, have been coming together to complete written suggestions for change. In 2026, we will be celebrating our nation's 250th birthday.
This will also be a time to celebrate Speak Up Breard as a shining example where citizens and government come together to be we the people. Thank you. >> Thank you, board. And thank you, Susan.
We have public comment. Um, Ruth Amato. >> Hi. Um, I don't think I could say anything better than what she just said. Um, I think it would be a true honor to name the SpeakUp Revard workshop after her. She worked so hard for it. She had such a spirit for it. It'd be amazing.
Thank you. Next up, Rich Heelfinger. I'll presentation answer my questions on that. Thank you. >> Got it. Stell Bailey. >> I strongly support this item and I respectfully ask each of you to say yes.
This year's workshop carries even deeper meaning because it honors Susan Connelly who was tragically lost in a fatal car car accident. Susan devoted years of her life to this county. She believed in citizen involvement, civ civic engagement, and
making local government better through participation, not exclusion. This program reflects her values, her dedication, and her tireless work. Voting yes today is more than approving a workshop. It is honoring Susan's legacy. It is saying that her work
mattered. It is saying the citizens voices matter. So today, I ask you in memory of Susan Connelly and in respect to the citizens you serve, continue her legacy of civ civic engagement in this county and please vote yes.
>> Thank you. Tracy Robinson, >> I pass. >> Uh Sandra Sullivan. >> Sandra Sullivan. Stell said it so perfectly and I urge you to uh honor her for this year as as she was so
passionate on this program. I want to also just give a a very brief moment to some background. Uh back in the 90s or 2000s, early 2000s, there was a group called the Bvard Coalition and mostly
from South Bard. They did amazing work and it is their work that got this into the Bvard Charter. So if you have not read it, you can search up on Google Bard Charter and read some of the things that are in there. But on this, so the
citizens efficiency efficiency and effectiveness recommendation was was basically Doge before Doge was coined. Um, and so this is an opportunity for citizens to put their comments in there. I've done it, I think, three years now.
And um, I just want to say I'm grateful for the change uh, this year to put it into January. It was such a hardship in previous years to have it in December with all the family activities and kids out for school and you know all of that.
So I just wanted to say thank you for that. And I have a Facebook page called Speak Up Bvard. Uh and I encourage anybody who wants to join it to collaborate or if they have questions. Um, and it's essentially the digital
version of the Bvard Coalition from years ago that allows people to collaborate and ask questions and because if we can collaborate together, we can better those ideas and work together as uh we the people of Bvard.
>> Thank you. >> Board discussion. >> Madam Chairman, I uh I know we do this a lot in the legislature. Um, we name programs after even laws after
individuals that are just exemplary who really embody the spirit of of what we're doing. I would be supportive of and naming this program permanently after her. Uh, Susan Bailey Citizens
Initiative, Speak Up Boulevard, whatever. To me, that'd be an inspiration. it would motivate me to value this more and even work harder and that would uh put this remarkable uh lady
in history as an example of why we have the program. So I I would even be willing to do that. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other board discussion? >> I love that idea. >> So I have a couple of thoughts. Um I thought Susan Connelly was tremendous.
She came into my often a lot my office a lot and one of the things that we don't ever say about her and I'm not sure why is that she was very professional >> when she talked to you. You wanted to hear what she had to say. Um she's not the kind of person who you're going to cringe when you find out that she's made
an appointment with you. You're excited and happy. She was one of the best at getting her point across and making you want to agree with her even sometimes when you didn't. Um, so I have no problem naming it after her
either. But my concerns are these. First of all, as we discussed the last time we were here, I am not in favor of having the Speak Up Bvard citizens come to the podium until after staff have had the opportunity to
narrow the field. I think that that is um for me very important that staff have a look at these things so that they can say what we can do and what we can't. Um so I'm not sure that February is is good
timing. Um that's kind of the most important thing for me. Um, I'd also like to remind us that the last time we talked about this and voted on this, we voted not to make any changes to the way we currently do sear because it is transparent. We do have it as part
of our charter. The other thing is I think we do sometimes confuse transparency with activism, right? Um, I think this county does a very good job of being transparent. Um, that's
my two cents. Anybody else? >> I I agree. I agree with her. She spoke with authority. I mean, Susan Connelly was she spoke in a way that was powerful and impactful and her commitment. It was
just so remarkable. And I I I guess in a way she gave her life for this program because I think she had her accident coming back from one of the meetings. So she did >> she literally gave her life for this program. >> Mr. Fner.
>> Well, first of all, Susan was a lovely lady and I think there's universal agreement in that. Um I enjoyed meeting with her in my office. Um and she was um
I she's missed. She she was a a good citizen of Bvard County and a and a great example of I think how you do it. I think there's a couple of things going on here. So let's first of all I think we could all agree we can call it the Susan B. Connelly speak up Bard uh
program. Okay that's so we could do that probably as its own motion. Okay I think I think that's easy. Um, I think the issue of a workshop, there might be a order of operations uh thing here. I think it probably be
better if if we brought that back for consideration after the date has closed. We know how many there are. And I think to an earlier point, some of the things that are state issue, constitutional
office, Dan Nulan ads, okay, I think that was a thing before. Can we get rid of Dan Nulan ads? >> Might agree with that person, but it's not part part of what the what the SEIR program could do. I didn't mind the workshops. I thought it was a very
positive experience. Um, and uh, I I don't I don't have any bad sort of takeaway from that. Now, I'll say also too because I'm I'm consistent on this issue, so I'm just going to say it again. You you can petition a a commissioner and u, you know, you can
take anything out of the SEIR program yourself and and work on it. You're you're free at any time to say, "Hey, I think that's a good idea. I want to I want to work on this and and work on it with with your staff first and then the county staff and then bring it to the board of county commissioners. That's
that's always an option available to you. Many of the things that I've brought to the board as D4 items, >> some of them even started as a conversation in the grocery store, okay, where someone stops me and says, "Hey, you know, we we need to we need to fix this thing." So, well, I think what we
should do tonight, let's let's rename it the first Susan. I I'm I'm fine if you bring this back, okay, after the the program. >> If I could I just >> Those are my thoughts. So, >> I would really love if we could, you
know, um, talk about dates tonight because I feel like I have to do this a lot and I I understand what you're saying about like the the program closing and whatnot, but it doesn't really take a whole lot of um, research to know
most of the time what is within our jurisdiction or not. So, January 31st to the end of February, that's quite a bit of time. I'm I'm not expecting the staff to have their recommendations back to us. This workshop really is for the citizens in my um in my vision and um we
had such an incredible um experience at the last one. It was so wellreceived. The the feedback that I got from it was, "Wow, this was actually something finally that our government did for us." And for me, that was like,
wow, what a moment um for for our community to get this this moment where we're not at odds, where we're working together towards a common goal, where the positivity and the ideas and the
innovation is is just flowing. And it it was just such a beautiful perfect um uh example of how I would love to see our government run. And um
so I don't I also picked these dates because we have a lot of uh budget workshops coming up and we h these two weeks are pretty clear for us as far as
like um everybody's when we have to be together our schedules. So there's no extra things going on um during these two weeks. And so, while I appreciate the comments about um
the staff recommendations and whatnot and um it being kind of close to the to the ending of because it ends on uh January 31st, I really feel like this is more about the citizens getting to
um share with us. It's more about that than what the staff's um recommendations are. So, I think Commissioner Felner, your idea of breaking this into two is probably a really good idea. Um, so I wouldn't mind entertaining a motion on the first part.
>> I'm just saying I I think we're probably all there on the Susan Connelly part. Um, as far as the workshop is concerned, I think I think that's a separate issue. I I feel like I' I'd like to see all of the um submissions um before we're
talking workshop. That's >> So, let's take the first part. Let's take the first part. Um, do I have a motion to um rename? >> I'll make that motion. A second. >> So, we have a motion by Commissioner Felner and a second by Commissioner Delaney. All in favor?
>> I I >> I >> Thank you. Motion passed. So, the >> So, the Oh, I'm sorry. >> Yeah. So, the second part um again, can someone just remind me so I'm not inaccurate here? And that might be um Jim, that's fine. Um, when do we
generally time-wise have all of the submissions in and staff enough time to get through it? >> Um, the submissions are due at the end of the month. Um, and under the BCC policy uh within 90 days of the filing date,
county managers shall evaluate and comment upon each sear. Last year, we got done a little bit earlier. I don't know, April 20th, April 25th, something like that is sticking in my brain. >> Okay. So, >> okay. So, again, my thoughts for me to be able to support something like this,
it's going to have to be after the staff narrows the field. Um, I appreciate everyone wanting to come up and be able to say what they have to say, but again, we're talking the difference between transparency and activism. And some of
the things that people might come up to talk about are just not something that we can do anything about. So, is anybody prepared? Yeah, sure. >> Um, Jim, what would what kind of effort would go into a basic look through all
of the because we could even honestly start this now because I think at this point we have about 23 um submissions. What would it take um how quick of a turnaround do you think it would be to just see if they're within our jurisdiction?
>> Um I I don't know I can give you a good honest answer. um you they're coming in right now. We're working on the budget workshops. That's you know that's kind of the focus at the moment. So I mean we we assign them to departments um when we get the chance and then bring them back.
>> Right. But what I'm I guess what I'm asking is Don as as as Don goes through them they're >> we kind of know if they're in our jurisdiction or not. Right. If there's an obvious like but Dan Nuland, then that's an obvious one. >> Or if it's to a constitutional officer
or something like that, >> but it's it still takes a little bit of time to go through them all. And you know, generally you have them you get a lot of them rolling in on the last couple days, too. I mean, they go all the way up to midnight. So, >> right. >> But I I guess what I'm asking is is that it's not going to take till April to
distinguish if it's within our jurisdiction or not. It it it depends on what the sear is, you know. Um, and of course, I can't think of we've had a couple that we've had to go back. I remember back at the beginning, Eden, the county attorney at
the time, actually took her like 60 days to determine because it involved lawsuits and stuff like that. So, some of them get complicated and then it turned out it was not under us if I recall right. and one last year involved like three different types of um
ATV, golf carts, motorbikes, all implicated different areas of statute, all have different preeemption rules under the so that's not as simple as looking at it that actually requet determine what was possible for the board to address because of state
preeemption and things like that. So they really vary from sear to sear. >> Thank you. Commissioner, >> I I think it's important that there are two things. One is that we give as much respect to the due process of all of
these requests and by rushing staff's time to to to come up with the recommendation may hurt the process. We want to make sure we have the due diligence to give it the due process it needs. So, I I support keeping the time frame the way it is. Secondly, county
staff has a significant role in uh dealing with life safety and well public well welfare that they just can't drop everything they have to get all these answers to do the proper review. So it
doesn't mean that you're not supporting it or giving it due diligence. I think this year we should go ahead and go with the process not knowing how many requests are going to come in. So, I I I'm fine with leaving it the way it is from the timing point of view.
>> Would I be able to propose some dates in April? >> I don't know. Does everybody have their calendar available? Unfortunately, I don't always have my calendar. I mean, I can't. I don't know if anybody else can, but I can't
at this moment. >> I mean, we do this a lot. >> Yeah. I don't have my office calendar available at this moment. >> What you I think you could bring this back in short order. You could we could probably
probably even uh do that in a couple of weeks. I'm I'm not against you on the on the workshop. I I think the win is is something um that you could discuss some more. I'm I'm going to throw something out there as as an idea to um consider. You know, we're talking about staff
pairing things down. I think the the board could also there try to find a way in there where we could help staff timewise. I think that would be very meaningful. So if the if working toward a workshop um maybe ended up p just
ponder this for the next meeting somehow that we get a list that says hey I'll tell you what here's the top 20 here's the top top 20 of 77 that that we think collectively ought to be staff time
>> workshopped >> to to to go through it and actually invest the legal hours and all of that the others, they can come and they can speak. They they could do that, but we're not going to maybe invest in the staff time. So, I I I'll tell you, I I
could get there for it with you if if you'd ponder that um for another agenda item. I because I think that and the great irony of things would help the efficiency of it all, right, if we save the the staff some time. That's that's
my thought tonight. Commissioner Delaney, would you like to make a motion or would you like to bring this back to the next meeting? >> Um, I'll bring it back to the next meeting. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Mr. Chairman, can I have my time back? I waved earlier, but I think I
misunderstood this item. Could I come back for my >> Sure. >> I appreciate you uh being flexible with me letting me come back up. Rick Hefinger again. I I thought this was just about renaming the workshop. We are not going to have a workshop. Are we going to have a workshop? I I was under
the impression we were going to have a something and maybe I could help. I understand from the presentation was earlier. If I submit a seir and let's just say that I think that county manager still has the right to say gun it down. It's not us or or whatever. I'm going to get an email. Did I understand
that right? Now, do I have any ability to respond to that email or because I guess that the reason for the workshop was I could come and say, "Hey, I got gunned down. I'd like a little more information or maybe you didn't understand what I was trying to say." So, is there the ability to continue that communication without a workshop?
>> Mr. Chair, all of the sears that are submitted, even the ones over which we determine that we don't have jurisdiction, every one of those by charter has to come to the board for final action. So these are all going to come to a regular board meeting of the board of county commissioners regardless
of any of those issues and you'll absolutely have the issue the ability to come up and have public comment. You'll have the ability to speak to your SEIR issue at the public meeting held by the board of county commissioners. >> Now when you say the public meeting you mean a regular meeting or one just about seir issue >> a regular meeting because that's the
only meeting the board can take action and the charter compels the board to take action on each of these take a vote. We don't take votes at workshops. >> Okay. I I was just wondering if I'm going to get an email that says I got shut down. I was kind of thinking the workshop allowed me to maybe fight my
case a little better or that's not what's going to happen. So the decisions are all made before the meeting should give you that you can actually appear. We have to have all the requests and if some are not approved or shut down shut down um that has to be addressed in the
public hearing and you will have the opportunity to speak to get more information or to challenge or it's possible not inconceivable the board would agree with you and so yeah it's it's definitely something that you have a time to respond. You're not just going
to get an email done can't do anything about it. >> Okay. So, I I I still am a little confused. If I don't have a workshop, then I >> Well, it's even better than a workshop because in a workshop, you can't even take action. It's going to be a regular scheduled county commission meeting.
That's to the the citizens advantage. >> Okay. That but I now now I'm confused. I don't know if if having a workshop, why do I want to have a workshop then? because I I don't want to cut the ability for me to if I've got a real strong feeling that I want that item and
I feel that maybe the way I wrote it up or maybe the way staff looked at it wasn't my what I thought and I get an email, I'd like the ability to come back and be able to say, "Hey, listen. I think there was a miscommunication. Could you please reconsider?" >> That that is my intention for a
workshop. My intention is that we get to the staff, that the citizens can get to the staff and explain their item more before their full recommendation comes back to us because um sometimes things can come out in writing differently than
it comes out when you're when you're verbally explaining something. Um, so that that is my intention with a workshop for the citizens to get a chance to come before us and speak and that way the staff has an opportunity to hear it before they finish up their
recommendations so that they can have a more holistic idea of what the citizens are bringing forward. That way we get the best product to come back to us at these um at the commission meeting. But I just want to also say that the past
two years, one year while I was a citizen and one year while I was a commissioner, both times this item has been pushed to the end of the meeting. The first time I didn't even get to speak as a citizen because I had to
leave for work. And um I know last year it got pushed to the end. Nobody had there were people that left because they had they couldn't stay the whole time. And um it's it it it was so rushed and so
uncomfortable as I was flipping through my binder, you know, when I was prom I was promised that we would have a full robust discussion and I was literally the only one that spoke. And so I guess that's why I, you know,
we this isn't about activism. It's about getting citizen involvement into our government. It's not activism. This is the way that it's supposed to happen. We're supposed to have people coming here, being involved, getting responses,
having collaboration and work between us, between the staff, because the staff, they do a great job, but they're not the none of us are the kings and queens and rulers. They're we're all public servants. And so if there's not a
working relationship with with the with the staff and with the county commissioners, then we have a broken system. And that's the whole reason why the the people who founded this program, it's why they they brought this program to the county charter review commission
because the system was so broken that they could not get their their input heard. And this is not something that that should be um this is a program that should that
should blossom. We I mean we have all of these people in this community with so much experience and um thought, but they a lot of times people have come to me and their their response is why why should I waste my time? And um I I just
keep imploring to them, please, I'm I'm working on this. I'm that I'm I'm passionate about um building this bridge between the community and and the government. And um so people are starting to get engaged. It's why the past 2 three years we've
had an uptake in um this program because myself, my chief of staff and others in this community um have have spread the word about it and when they hear about it, people are so encouraged because they act they say, "Wow, we we are
getting a full robust response and it's talked about and there's conversation." Um, it's not about activism. It's about building a bridge. >> Okay. Um, >> as long as I get my ability to feed back. I I don't know if that's a
workshop or more focused during the meeting, but I guess I can always come back >> when I get my Are we going to get like the blasted all the declines at the end? >> I think we uh we can talk about the timing and the agenda if we want to have it sooner. We'll have an opportunity.
Appreciate your in your We have quite a few cards left. I think we need to have a 10-minute break. So, let's come back at uh 6:44. Hey. Hey. Hey. be down.
Hey Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat. Hey hey hey. I'm Never. Hey, hey, hey.
Heat. Heat. feel. Hey be girl. Heat. Heat. J6 uh board discussion notification to residents reference disclosure of PAS
contain >> contaminant levels in drinking water and who's introducing this okay >> thank you >> Mr. Lanny, >> thank you so much. Um, so
I became aware of PAS in 2018 as a parent. Um, and when I started looking into it, I became concerned and I made adjustments to protect my own family. Um, as county commissioner, I'm concerned about all of
our residents and families. And after learning, we were studying this um I requested a meeting with our utilities director to go over the Jacob study um 249 pages and um I've attached that to our online agenda items. Um that way
residents can find it on our legisar easily. Um in in that meeting um I was informed that we won't be able to implement RO uh reverse osmosis um
our our RO plant for at least four years in North Bard. Um that that made me nervous. Um, I felt like it's imperative to notify people of the POS contamination so that they have the opportunity to make those choices for
their families um if they want to get a filter for their home or um whatever they would like to do in the intermediary. Um while researching this uh I found just
after a quick um really a quick search that there are other counties in Florida that are um doing some notification to to their residents. Um Logan, if you wouldn't
mind putting up the Orange County um uh page. So, this is actually a website that Orange County has uh put together and if you wouldn't mind going to the next one um that basically shows all of their data and the ND means not detected
and it's because they have an ARO system in place um which is what we are working on getting in our community as well. Um, so the results of of this um, report were
concerning to me because um, as I believe Miss Bailey mentioned earlier, the the allowable um, the standard I should say is four parts per trillion. And um these
uh this document goes back to 2023 with the newest update being um August 13th, 2025. And so we have a lot of data here that shows um
the sampling from our wells. And it's concerning um because some of some of the results are anywhere from you know um four five six upwards in
Barefoot Bay area to 56 um parts per trillion which was you know um extremely concerning to me. Um, I I wanted to bring this forward not
only to to the board but to the public because I I really feel like this is something that that people need to know. It's I wouldn't go as far as saying it's an it's a emergency situation, but I think that it's something that if people
choose to um they should know as government officials, I think that we should be the ones letting people know what this is. Um what are the possible effects? Um what do our wells what are the results
of our wells? and um you know what what are some possible things that they could be doing according to the different agencies across the country that are studying this. So like the EPA for instance, they have a whole website that is dedicated
um or I should say a whole section of their website that's dedicated to what is PAS, what are we doing as a nation to um improve the health and water um of our country and our citizens
and what we can do what people can do in the meantime. Um there's different filters and things like that. Um I'm I'm by no means an expert, but um I I definitely wanted to bring this forward.
There's also um I'm not sure if I have let's see the um Logan the Temple Terrace. Um do I have a slide that shows that? Oh, it's on Legar. Okay. Kristen, would
you mind um finding that and putting that up on the thing? Um this was also an another um type of notification that I had found was a uh basically a letter that was sent out to the users of the
water over in Temple Terrace that basically it just shows the results. It shows um it gives an explanation of um what's being done, what should I do, uh what are the possible health effects,
more information, and it gives some county um or I'm sorry, city uh representatives that the public could could reach out to, and um also a section for more information about these substances and um where to go on the EPA
website um and so on and so forth. forth. And the cool thing about the um Orange County and Gainesville was that they periodically update their their website. When they get new results, they update it so that people can continually
be aware. And so that's um that's what I'm proposing. Um, that's what I'm bringing forward to the board to get board support on notification to these areas in North Bard and Barefoot Bay and um, Sebastian
and um, yeah, North Bard, Barefoot Bay, and Sebastian to notify the users of the county um, utility of the results and what they can do if they so choose to.
Oh, I have this one, too. If you want to put this up. >> So, it's just like a simple one pager, you know, that um just shows shows um gives a notification to the public. Um because like what was presented to us
earlier um this is something that is not an overnight thing. This is something that um as it accumulates in your body after years we we can have some pretty severe um medical issues that come up. So, I just feel
passionate about making sure that the public um is notified just like if they're say we're, you know, lead or whatever other substances um that we let them know that that this that we have some high results in some of our wells,
not all of them. Um and that um you know just to make sure people are able to make those decisions for themselves. >> Are are we going to do questions first or cards? Mr. Chair
>> up to you. >> I might have just a couple questions this questions. >> That page that Kristen was showing there that was that's from a website. >> Yes. Okay. Um, is there
I suppose you know when you're talking about creating a website and I don't think it's very expensive. I probably the easy part of it and I think staff said this is uh you know creating it. It's the it's the maintenance of it
>> going going forward that'll that'll be the more time consuming part of it. Um, do you do you know is is there, you know, a template or anything like that? Um, I I know we're talking about the front end of it, but is there anything
like that that the county can borrow from our friends in other jurisdictions? Um, is that >> I I haven't reached out to Orange County or um Gainesville. Those are the two websites that I I found after my quick quick search. But from my experience so
far um on some of the regional boards, people are very collaborative usually and I I would um I would be happy to reach out to them and and see if they'd be willing to help um share. >> I think it's probably um cheaper, you
know, to borrow from your friends um if they've already done the the work of putting something together that and also to I guess just best practices. this is what they think is is is working um in another area. Okay, that's that's my question so far, Mr. Chair.
>> Okay, any other questions? I do I have a question. It's sort of related, but I'm just curious uh because I know they were finding PAS in the recycled water in Cocoa Beach. Have we tested the recycled water that we have right here in Vieira
or anywhere else in the county? I would I would like Eddie to answer that if that's okay. That wasn't in the in the um >> just the reused water that that's on. >> We haven't done any testing in the reuse. >> I'm sorry.
>> No, we have not. >> It might be something we want to think about. >> Definitely. >> Yeah. Okay. Um >> well I mean when we're talking about reuse we're talking about irrigation for right um you know landscaping and that's
is that what you mean when you say >> yeah you know the wastewater treatment plant has extensive reuse and >> and I think there is an expectation because >> you know there there are still products
out there that have teflon and and those sorts of things and you're you are putting that down um you know down the drain that's that's different than uh some of the other ways that it that it ends up in a in a waterway. >> I I think and something I haven't
thought of till now, but if we do the RO eventually that's going to reduce the volume of POS going into our reclaimed water too. So that has a double effect. Mhm. >> Just it's just a thought just something
I thought of since and many of these vas >> which I'm I'm totally all for our our RORO. I think that Eddie's plan moving forward is great. Um that we're uh working towards that, but we're still a few years out. So, my concern was in the
in the meantime, um I would just hate for people to unknowingly be ingesting this. Um especially when we have this knowledge. We know that we know that it's there. Um some of the levels are really high. Um like I said, up to 50 I
want to say it's 56 um parts per trillion in in Barefoot Bay. Um it's in some areas in the uh 20s in in North Bard was some of the highest. So uh
which you know four years of ingesting that is and that's four years at a minimum right um Eddie till we get to the RO system. >> Uh yes. >> Yeah. >> Another question I have related to the
RORO. What do they do with the brine? Obviously, if we're we have POS in the water, they're removing it with RO. It's going to be in the brine. Is there any disposal process or where does that end up? >> Uh, so as part of the RORO plant, we
also have to design two deep injection wells for redundancy. So, they'll get um they'll get injected down to the lower Florida and aquifer. >> Okay. >> Eddie, would you mind explaining that a little bit? um the the different
aquifers and like >> how >> I'll let you do that. So, so you know to give clarity as we talk about portable water in Bard County um and on occasion I've seen um people discuss and it'll
dive into the aquafer um discussion about um toilet water or wastewater converted. Um that is a common um language that they're asking in water supply plans that will not
apply toward Bvard County. The the the rationale about that is in Bvard County and for most of the coastal regions we have three aquifers. We have what's called the surficial aquifer. what we describe as um for those that have their
own private well whether it's irrigation or portable um depth can range anywhere from around 35 to 150 deep 50 ft deep. This is what we call like the sweet water, you know.
Um and so now the water management district is really um emphasizing and this is across Florida that if we're if you're in a region where you have the upper Florida and well and the upper Florida well and I don't want to get
into distance depth but there's a um there's a fairly thick uh rock formation and once you get to the upper Florida and that's what's brackish water. So to give you an idea, salinity in the ocean
is around 13 14,000 parts per million brackish water in the upper Florida and is around 67,000. You can't drink it raw. Um but that's um whenever you hear of a coastal region doing Roro, that's the well they're pulling from. The water
management district encourages that because um it's plentiful. The only the only kickback is you have to do reverse osmosis. But the benefit of reverse osmosis, it will remove any contaminant.
So um it's literally the purest, it's literally technology, the best technology in order to get that. Um once you have the upper floor in there's another thick rock formation. I apologize for not having distance but in
the spirit of people will gravitate toward what I say. I'd rather be factually correct. Then you get down to the lower aquifer uh lower Florida and aquifer. Anybody that you hear has a deep injection well that is the aquifer
where um that stream is um introduced to. And the reason why I asked for you to explain that was because I just wanted to make it clear that that's not the same place where we'd be pulling our water from it. Right. >> Not at all. >> Yeah.
>> Um there is significant um geohhydraulic modeling that they have shown. They've even done testing. Um so correct. >> Can I ask a followup, Mr. Chair? >> Sure. from my my own education here for
the reverse osmosis plants. Is that is that typical to do with the brine if if you will the leftover? >> Mhm. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Okay, let's go to the cards. We have Ruth. Hi,
they've already covered most of the health a lot of the health effects from having POS in your water. So, what I'm going to tell you is um the what the recommendations for clinicians. So, when you go to the doctor, if you have over two t two parts per trillion, you they
under that they tell you that you can just have regular medical care. Between 2 and 20, they tell you that um you need to reduce exposure, monitor for high cholesterol, hypertension, pregnancy complications, and breast cancer. My 13-year-old daughter
in that category, lifelong Boulevard resident because nobody warned us to drink what we call portable water. My daughter, our children, my nieces, and my nephews. Is it any wonder that we have so many reproductive problems here in Bvoulevard
County? It's cuz we're poisoning our children without our knowledge before they ever get a chance to thrive. And I'm sorry, it's personal. It's so personal because that's my mama sitting back there
who just got over colon cancer. And we won't talk about what the future holds for her because what the treatment did to her. this, not this board, but the previous board knew this was in our water when they joined the lawsuit two to three
years ago and they notified no one. They let us drink it. They let our children play in the bathtub and they didn't care. So, I would like to say thank you to Commissioner Bellini for being brave enough to bring this forward and protect her residents because we deserve nothing
less. And if someone's going to hang their hat on the fact that it's not required, I'd like to say we're not required to die for your silence either. Our children aren't required to suffer because nobody told them what's in their
water. There's a thing called ethics. Ethics over requirements. people over this. North Bard, South Bard, we deserve better. We deserve to be treated like human beings and like our lives actually
matter. And keeping this under wraps for so many years. By the way, what happened to the money that came back from that lawsuit? Do any of you know, did it go to the systems that are going to protect us? Because I can probably guarantee you it did not. Maybe that's something though that
should be looked into because that report specifically says that those wells in high amounts should be decommissioned and there should be something put in place in the interim until that ARO plant can be put in place. But there isn't a plan only the courage of one person to bring it
forward so at least people can protect themselves when our county didn't protect us. Rich Richard Hefflefinger Richard Hfinger District 1. I I don't know much about PAS, but I know a lot more tonight than I did before. My question is I live in Coco, right? So I
get my water from the city of Coco. >> Are they required to test for PAS? >> They are. >> Yes, they are. >> And and and will they will they alert me when I get a flag on PAS levels going over? Is it four? I I don't four, >> but I won't get a flag from Coco in their water test.
>> I would ask for one. >> So, they currently they're not active because I get that little thing says everything's okay. Drink it. It smells bad. It looks a little weird, but drink it. I'm I'm wondering, do I get a notification today from Coco? And is that what she's asking for? Because I would think that if we've got something
identified by, you know, the experts and and it flags, they should be testing for that. I I granted they can't test for everything but if this PA thing and it looks like it's becoming more and I guess in our area Bvard right talk about PASH contamination and I understand
that's a muck problem too. I don't know if that's true but we're spreading that stuff around on the ground. So, if they're not notifying me, if Coco's not going to notify me when it when it triggers, I'm a little concerned about that because half the time it says everything's okay or it's going to be a
little weird because we're going through a broomemide cycle that's coming up. And so, I get those notification they have now. I'd assume everybody that gets water from a water provider gets a notice of compliance, right? So, if all we're asking for is to get that added, I
don't think it costs anything, right? It just becomes a category of true or not because we always when these things come up, they always ask how much is it going to cost? I would hate to think that, you know, if it's important enough a little bit, can't you just call Koko and say, "Hey, you guys are testing for that,
right?" Yeah. If it tags, you're going to trigger it. or is the EPA not haven't they got their stuff together because I think the EPA requirements would drive them. So, I don't know what what what exactly what we're asking for, but if PAS flags in my water, I would think now
that I know what it is, I would actually honor my wife's request to get a filter because before I just said, "Oh, honey, come on. There's nothing in it. Look at this report. I'm not spending four grand. I think after this I might reconsider."
So, that's all I want to say. Thank you. So, I just Googled it. Um, yes, City of Cocoa Beach. Oh, this is Cocoa Beach. I thought it was Coco. We need to answer that question. It's a good question. City of Cocoa Beach has conducted
testing. Um, it says, we'll look at we'll look it up. See, >> I I can add um it's a requirement that everybody tests. So, all um water providers have to test. Now, the notification piece though doesn't start
until 2027. Is that right, Eddie? Um so, starting 2027, we're going to be required to notify, but um right now we're not. Sorry. And that's why I'm coming to the board. >> If you ask
your water provider, will they tell you? >> Yes. >> Do you know that? Um, you would probably have to go through your p uh public record request. >> I mean, you couldn't call your water provider and can you call them and say, "Do I have PAS?" They'll tell you
>> if you can get a hold of them. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That's good to know. We're all learning something here. Okay. Still Bailey. >> Still Bailey. I grew up in Bvar County right here and what flowed through my
taps became a big part of my story. In 2013, everything changed. I watched my uncle die of cancer. Our family dog riddled with tumors. Then my little brother was diagnosed with cancer. Then I was diagnosed with cancer. And then my
father was diagnosed with cancer. Now mind you, this was all within the same year. We had to learn to become caregivers and cancer patients within the same year. Multiple cancers, one family, one hometown.
Every doctor asked us the same question. Where did you guys grow up? And when we said Bvard County, their faces would change. Genetic testing showed that we had no mutation genes. And my medical records actually document this as
environmental exposure because it was so unusual. When I went into remission in 2014, I made a promise to myself that I was going to find out why this happened to my family. That's when I learned about POS
chemicals, the so-called forever chemicals that moved through groundwater and underground plumes from past industrial and firefighting use. They quietly enter drinking wells decades later. They don't disappear when the source stops. They stay in water and
they stay in the body. And guess what? I had my blood tested and my POS levels were higher than the health agencies considered safe. I am still living with that exposure and what that did to me to this day.
My family was never given the power to know to know to simply know what was in our drinking water. I promise you as a mother myself, if my mother and my father were told that there were these chemicals that build up in your
children's body, by the way, they drink more than we do as adults. You're feeding them formula. They're drinking more water. They're developing. This crosses the placenta in pregnant women. So it is impacting growing
children. That's why I have spent the last decade helping communities across this country fight for science-based drinking water protections and accountability. And that is why I am currently in federal court fighting against this current
administration on the current national drinking water standards to ensure that we keep that low amount. I'm not asking you guys to solve PAS tonight. I'm asking you to do one simple thing and that's to tell the truth to build trust between a government and the people.
And I promise you if you don't I will end up sending postcards and they don't want to hear from me. Don't make me do that. Please do not make me do that. I'm asking you to be that bridge and to be collaborative and to and to show people that they can trust you. Thank you.
>> Stell, where were you drinking water? What was the water supply your family had? >> Cape Canaveral is where I was. Yep. City of Coco >> and then Coco and then Mims. I also My dad lived in Mens. My parents were divorced. Right.
>> Thank you, Elizabeth Baker. Good evening. Um, I too was going to go through some of the health effects of POS, but I think you guys are pretty clear on that. I was actually really thrilled to hear your your response to Miss Bailey's um,
presentation. Um, I have family members here in Bvard County, a cousin that I lost uh from Port St. John at 55 years old, completely riddled with cancer. It started in her bladder, moved through her whole body. She left behind three
children. Um, I have a family member in Titusville. My drinking water tested at 176 parts per trillion. Um, I'm I'm one of the lucky ones though because I found out and I installed a reverse osmosis
system. Um, by telling people, you give them that ability. And not all ARO systems are $4,000. Some of them are just a couple hundred and you can use that just for your drinking water. And that really reduces people's exposure. It's
important that we do that. And the way that I look at this is we live in a stand your ground state. We have literally the legal right to take someone's life if we feel threatened
physically. By not telling people what is in their drinking water if it could harm them, you literally take away their right to defend their physical body. And it's not
okay. People have to be able to do that. And if you really think about it and you give people the opportunity to do so, a lot of people here in Bvard will probably spend that money and put those RO systems in their homes. And by doing that, you're reducing the amount that
goes back into the system. It's a win-win. So you look good. You're the heroes by telling everybody and you're reducing what's going back to the system from all of us. Do the right thing. Y'all know what it is. Thank you.
Okay, thank you. Uh, Kimberly Bter >> Benton, I apologize for my appearance. >> Benton. >> Yes, >> I apologize for my appearance. I do not regret my uh actually at all do not regret regret my vote, Miss Delaney, at all. In fact, I want to be the
uncomfortable truth that you all look at today because we all are clear on the problem. We all know it's there. I've called Coco multiple times about the water supply. Number one, dumping fluoride in the water is we all know is a neurotoxin. So, that needs to be cut.
Um, I've been calling Coco for years and bugging them about the water. And everybody here, you can look up the environmentalworkingg groupoup.com. Go to their website, put your zip code in, you'll get all those little numbers. All right. So, I'm slit from here to here. I
woke up in a VA Morgan Nashville in 2012 due to the irresponsibility of the government to take responsibility for the water at Camp Lune. I was there in 1997. I want you to know that there's still a 12-oot fence around that base
and the head doctor at ASRD. So, if y'all want to know what special diseases that you await you and your loved ones that have been here forever, unless you stand up and make the change, there's a whole list there. And my story is is my
bile ducts filled with with tumors because the water was so toxic. I fought as a single mother, my son filled served a full term. I'm eight generations in service people. I'm a direct descendant of General Clayool. My family has served
the space center. My grandfather paved US1 on my maternal side. My paternal father wired up that damn shuttle launchpad. We're smart. My cousin owns a business that still works out there. My dad cancer twice, one kidney, prostate
gone. Man's still kicking cuz we're just too salty to lay down and die. And then my cousin, my first cousin who lives in Sat Beach in the hot zone over by Gleon Park. You all know about it. Double masectomy. They're gone. And
let's talk about our health care. Health first needs some work. Let's just be honest. That's a whole subject for another day. But we know there's a problem. Miss Delaney, I want to commend you for being responsible, taking accountability. Mr. Alman, I like your attitude as well. Miss Atinson, I plead
to you to please be more compassionate. Do realize I understand commerce is a big deal. It's not so much about being an advocate as like safe water is an important issue for everybody and there's an opportunity for innovation
here. You know how we got our little algae steamboat that cruises down the lagoon converting the nitrogen. I have a solution for every problem. Okay. See light chipultate also can filter some of your salts there sir. Um you've got
mushrooms. You take look up Paul Stamuts and the host defense program. Smallpox, agaricus, you have uh mushrooms from the old growth forest that will grow and clean up these oil spills and these toxic spills. Like there are got to be
grants out there. We got options. Just put those RO systems in, y'all. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Sandra Sullivan. Sandra Sullivan. So, uh, I would like to see a commitment
as what in in addition to transparency in disclosing this to the the people drinking the water to also make a commitment to spend the 3M settlement for POS contamination to addressing these problems. So from what I looked
up, so if you may remember, Commissioner Felner on December 5th, 2023, an agenda item proposed 3M Corporation class action settlement um for district 1. And from what I
understand, the county has already received one payment and that there are some additional payments coming. I would like to see a motion tonight that you commit to spending that money to go towards treating the water to make it
safe for people and because under from what I read it can be spent on a couple categories within the water system but not necessarily to fixing PIOS. I think that's a reasonable expectation to to make a motion that when you get that
settlement it will go to making that water safe. Now I want I live in South Patrick Shores. I live in close proximity to Patrick Space Force Base. In 2018, I was happily very happily never went to a commission meeting.
Didn't know what a commission meeting was. And I was just homeschooling my kids and having a great time and pinching myself every day how blessed I was where I lived. And then I found out about the cancers Beachside and all the women with
breast cancer and the brain cancer and other cancers affecting young people a 18year-old or 17year-old brain cancer lost her life a student that played football with my son who lost who had lung cancer and
testicle cancer. It is the young people is affecting. I want to say that I do not appreciate that the re remedial investigation from Patrick was done in 2014. It was hidden from us. It wasn't until
this cancer hit a big thing that we even found out about it in 2018, four years after the remedial investigation. I'm gonna say something. You guys have right now a vendor link for a vendor to
go put the muk out on on egg land and in your contract and I would appreciate just a little bit extra time today on this one issue. I've rarely ever asked for it. You have in there a liability immunity for putting this on egg land.
Now, if you're looking at the news and looking at the cattle, the cattle that are being put down because they're being poisoned by POS, it is irresponsible for this county to not test the muck that you're dredging and then putting
out on egg land. And I'm just going to say I believe that the muck tax and I call it that in response to the RARI, the remedial investigation that came out from Patrick in early 2015 because the language in the newspaper
article says it's not legal to use it for muck judging. That law was never changed. It was called the muck tax in the beginning. And I just want I just want to just say this. We PEOS is a very mobile chemical and it spreads. It's in
our groundwater. EPA came out with a study that it is a semiv volatile organic. It comes up into our homes beachside. That's a conversation for another day. But we are being exposed to this from multiple ways. Stell, the the
study that you did with UF, some of the most contaminated places in Bvard are our sewage waste systems. This is why AWT and for the reclaimed water that you brought up is so incredibly important to address. And we we we the health study
that was done, I'm almost done, did not address breast cancer, brain cancer, some of the cancers that have been tied to POS. It looked like a coverup to be honest. And I still live there, okay? Because I fight for the people there and
I fight and I stay on this issue and I have come to these meetings for seven years. I live on top of a military dump in addition to it. Guess what? The core put in monitoring wells all through
that. You could vote at the next RAD meeting, which is in a couple weeks. the county could support me in a vote to putting for Patrick to do testing in those monitoring wells. They're already in. The expense is done.
Let's work towards solutions. Incineration, what they call um plasma incineration. There are technologies that can reduce this and make this safe. It exists. The technology is there now.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, let's go back. That's our last card. Um, let's bring this back to the board. >> I have a couple of questions if I may. >> Okay, >> Eddie. Couple of questions.
>> Um, who tells us when to test and how often do they tell us to test? >> Uh, so the FD notifies us that they're given direction through the E. >> Can you speak up just a little bit?
>> Sorry. And I apologize if my throat is raspy. Um, so the EPA gives direction to the FD. We do it quarterly, but then there's also supplemental testing done at the request of the EPA. When those are,
they're sporadic. Um, but when they notify us, we do it immediately. >> Okay. One more. >> Absolutely. >> And and what do we do with those results? we continue to um we include them in our
report and it gets reported back to the DP on the results and those results get sent to the EPA for statistical analysis or what they do. >> So, do we as a county put them out on our website anywhere? Are they available
for the public to see those reports? >> Currently, no. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> I have a couple. >> Yes. >> Um Eddie, if you wouldn't mind, how um have we looked into the source of um the
contamination? >> We as a entity of Bvard County Utilities? No. >> And what would be the process to do that? Would we instruct our consultants to do that? Would the board have to give direction to ask you to
>> I I I think the I think that's more of a state level commissioner because we're getting into um the source is multitude. So if you know going back to what I described was the surficial aquifer. You asked me the
question explain the aquafers. The same aquifer that I described which is the 35 to 150 foot deep. That aquifer goes through central Florida and I believe it stops short of the Georgia
border and central. So, um I I'm not aware of the state. They may be already doing some form of analysis. The water management district are I I'm I'm just I think it's a much more holistic item to tackle.
>> When I when I looked at um how how that goes about um what came up on my search was PE POS fingerprinting. Um, and this is something that uh I guess all the different types of POS, it
has its own unique um makeup and um so it it literally describes it as fingerprinting because each uh each chemical is so different and depending on what it's from and um where it's made and all of that, it's it's unique. it
has a unique compound and um the research that I've that I've done um which isn't crazy extensive but it's you know a little bit um this is already used by state agencies and utilities to
to assign responsibility and so that's one of the things that I'm thinking about like is if if there are industries or if there are polluters out there that are um polluting our wells. They should be paying for our RO system,
not the the rateayers. >> And um the there's also um total oxidizable um
precursor to OP. And it says that um some sources release precursors that don't show up in standard tests. So this top testing um identifies specifically
um industrial or landfill derived contaminate contamination and um it can distinguish firefighter foam from manufacturing waste which I thought that was really interesting. And um also groundwater flow and plume modeling can
also help us find where where this stuff is coming from and where it is going to. Um because one of the things that I saw in this study was that the some of our wells had next to no POS and then other
other wells, you know, could have had quite a bit. So, um I feel like it's not um it's not a stretch to say that there's a possibility that we could possibly get some
um we could hold some people responsible for this contamination. Um, and I also found that this is a pretty standard practice in um, super fund investigations, cost recovery and litigation cases and state enforcement
actions. um spatial sampling. Uh so this also says that um POS patterns typically increase closer to the source. So that can also give us a idea and it
changes composition as they migrate. So this allows the investigators to draw a contamination gradient um pointing upstream which will help us zero in on where is this coming from because some some people have you know put out there
that you know um you know so we we already know that the military there's a lot of um PAS that has come out uh from military bases. We have a whole advisory board that you know has been established because of the contamination at um one
of the military bases and um you know if if the federal government has contributed to some of this they should be you know participating in this cleanup and I know that they are sort of to an extent but the when they came here and gave us when the army corps came and
gave us that present presentation. It was I won't say what I really think. It was not enough. Um and then when they went out and dug in people's yards, there were I I've had constituents come to me and say, "We literally told the Army
Corps that you're digging in the wrong spot. There's no stuff there." And they they insisted on digging where they were going to dig. So even that data that they bring back to us is not going to be truthful. It's not going to be um full and unbiased. It's going to probably
show, you know, I'm sure it'll show something, but it it's not going to show the extent. And so, if we used our money wisely and instructed our our consultants that were already paying to do some of this work, um I mean, we
could have RO systems for the whole county if if we can pinpoint, you know, where this stuff is coming from. Um so the current technology that's out there it can um it can narrow sources to
small defensible set of of um of things and it can eliminate unlikely contributors. So basically it can it can narrow the field of what what could be
um contributing to this problem um and it can support regulatory or legal action. Um some of the things that have that are happening elsewhere are um I know that we are all um testing now um but running
TOP tests on select wells. So maybe those wells that are higher um uh in this study performing fingerprint analysis, map concentrations and groundwater flow compared um to known
source signatures uh and identify probable source zones and engage regulators and legal counsel. And so these I feel like are some of the steps we could be taking um along with
notification of you uh notification to our residents and that there is um so much information out there on these technologies on the EPA website. Um there's a PA source tracking um and
forensic uh system. the Iowa Department of Land and soil PAS sampling and source ID guidance SLR consulting um PE pas fingerprinting and
source um uh basically there's there's all these things out there and so I'm just wondering if maybe in addition to notification we we get a task force together we we do something to try to
battle this thing head on. Um, and maybe even see what some other areas are doing to combat this issue because like I said earlier, this isn't a Bvard County problem. This is a everywhere problem. And so it's uh Right.
>> Right. So, and um let's see. I'll let that be for now. Thank you. >> Okay. Um, any other discussion?
>> I just have a couple of thoughts. >> Commissioner, >> thank you. Um, Morris, I apologize for putting you on the spot, but um, I mean, clearly we all know that POS is horrible. That's not a question. Um, my question is
if we make ourselves look like we are experts. Um, now I'm not talking about just putting out the results of the testing that we might do, but if somehow people got the idea
that whatever we put on this website was the truth of the matter. Um, are we opening ourselves up to any kind of legal problems? Can you see? I don't I don't want us to to put ourselves out there as being the experts and then being wrong because people got cancer or
didn't get cancer and just got scared. What are your thoughts on that? >> As long as we only publish data from testing and we don't make representations about the meaning of that data, we can publish the data as well as the established standards by EPA for example. Then there's no liability for something like that.
>> So publishing the testing, the results that we get, not a problem. >> We do something similar already with all kinds of other things in a water quality report. It's just that um the the various POS contaminants haven't been part of that historically. Those are
going to be phased into water quality reports going forward. >> Gotcha. Thank you. >> That was my only question. >> Okay, that's all right. I don't think there are any other questions. I just want to um point out that the um temple terrace uh
example that I I put out in the um attachments, it it gives basic information to to queue people over to where they could find out more information. And I would hate for
us to just put out blind data that nobody knows what what any of that means. I mean, the EPA has standards and there's I mean, countless organizations and health organizations out there with information that shows um with certain
amounts of this in our systems, different um health effects could very well come. And so I just I caution us to just put out numbers because
the masses are not going to know what to do with that. And so I feel like, you know, um our neighbors around the state, they've put out this information. I'm sure they have great legal teams just like we do. And so I can't imagine we they would be
putting out something that was going to um open them up to legal liability. So, I just caution us being too cautious at the expense of not truly notifying the public of
um you know, the steps that they could be taking to protect their health. And of course, you know, um, like this one says somewhere on it that, you know, you should always contact your doctor, you
know, for any kind of medical advice and so on and so forth, which, you know, we would we would always, you know, I would never pretend to be a a medical expert. Um, people should talk about this with their families and their their doctors and whoever else
they need to talk to to make a decision um about their health. >> Could Could I say one thing? Yes. Uh, I think to your to your point there, Commissioner Delini, um, I I think links going from a county
website to what? The EPA, is that is that the standard? Because obviously, you know, you don't want disinformation here either or misinformation. I don't I don't think that's going to help anybody. >> So, is is that is that part of this?
>> Exactly. Do I'll pass this down. Um, this is what was on the projector earlier tonight. And that kind of gives a And it doesn't have to be exactly that. It's just I wanted to bring forward some examples so that everybody could see what some other areas are
doing. >> Okay. So, at this point, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We're I'm sorry. Go ahead, Eddie. Go ahead. Uh no I was well there you know just going a little bit what you're saying commissioner there's the the conversation of PAS it's very new um I
will tell you I've gone on websites uh some of them look rec reputable some of them if you read some of the information it can I think it's kind of misleading sometimes and with
recommendations for a great example um you know well I'm going to go I'm going to put a private RORO system in um in order to know the functionality of the private RORO you have to get it tested it's a question are you going to believe
the brochure and so there's you know just to put a blanket thing well the solution is an RORO so um um you know the the factuality the data um EPA right now a lot of util
ities as I talked to with other utility directors and we're all going through this. Um right now, you know, where we feel comfortable is with FD and EPA. Um they're putting they're, you know,
they're the buffer in that. >> Okay. So, could I could I say real quick is is the the website that you're proposing here only go to EPA. I I think at least in the early stages of whatever the county
would do that would >> my my initial thought for the website was um a basic what is POS and we can get that from you know any reput any of the reputable
sources EPA um whoever and then put our um results and then um maybe just a a prompt that says, you know, um if you have any concerns, you know, consult
your medical professional or, you know, something like that. um the the two websites that are uh in the agenda packet, they they show, you know, slight variations of that, but I'm honestly if we get any anything out
there to the public um to start and we can massage it from there, you know, depending on everybody's comfort level, I would I would be happy with that. >> Mr. Chair, say something real quick. I think tonight we're we're only given
direction, right, to staff to to look at what would go into a website and then bring back to a future date. Right. >> Correct. >> Okay. Um and and so I think maybe in a in a motion make me feel better that uh
a a website in the future um or maybe it's it's for the next discussion goes to a a governmental website and not to something that would mislead the public. to that. >> Yes. >> Along that kind of line, we are already
paying a consultant, right, to to to do this for us. So, could that consultant make Cliff's notes that are more understandable that we could post on this website? >> I mean, the simple what if uh what is it
questions, those are provided by EPA and we can obviously cut and copy that. um the data that we already received, we could tabulate that and put that on there. >> Mr. Chair, I'm sorry if I can interrupt a little. Sorry, thank you for letting
me interrupt there. Um just many years, um I I think we'd probably we'll come back, you know, depending on board direction. I think we'd probably be more comfortable having us to link or copy off of EPA or whatever the recommendation. you know, many years of government, the easy part is putting a
list together or a database. The hard part is making sure it's up to date. I just I'm a little nervous to say I'm making up a number here, guys. You know, this is me always say making up a number. The standard is four divided by 10. Well, if all of a sudden the standard is now 3 and a half divided by
10, I rather have that linked to who's making that standard than us because we may miss it by a month or two. We may not catch it up. So it's always hard to make sure you're up to date on your data. So along so we'll look at you know I'm sure we can cut and paste the EPA questions some general but if there's
some ways we can link this so people can get the data from the EPA or DP I think that would be a better way to go. I mean, yeah, our results will be our numbers, some standard whatifs or FAQs that are, you know, from the feds or the state, whoever it is, and then we can provide some links somewhere and and
rely on the federal. Well, God, I'm saying rely on the federal government, rely on the experts to make sure they have the data up to date, not add um I I'm also requesting for some kind of notification to go out to the users
relatively soon. um because we've already had these results now since August. Um and so something like that that one pager from Temple Terrace or whatever whatever else um
we feel comfortable with, but something relatively soon that we could maybe put into a a water bill or something like that or I know we have an email system that um already notifies people of boil water notices and things like that. Um,
and I had a question about um the city of Titusville because if I'm correct about this, Eddie, they get twothirds of their water from from us or from MIMS.
>> Um, they have they have wells that are outside of their city limits, but they're their wells. So there it's totally through their water system. >> Yes. >> Not through ours. >> Correct. >> Okay. And so I just wanted to make sure
that any um any of our users that they would get notified even if it's through a mun municipality, but if it's if it's through their systems um their government agencies have to deal with that, not us. Um, but anybody who's
listening to this meeting definitely you should contact whoever your representatives are to find out this information so that you can be notified um and prepared um for your family. So,
um, love the idea for, um, staff to come back with website recommendations, but I was hoping that the board could make a decision tonight about, um, sending some kind of
uh, notification out to our users so that they can be aware of these results um, relatively quickly. I Okay, I play devil's advocate here. Do you know the scope of that or um the cost or any of those? I mean, if it goes
in the water bill, there's going to be some printing and and something there. I don't I don't think that's, you know, huge money and something that's already going out there. I'll give you that. >> Or like in the email system >> or Well, that's cheap. So I think and I don't I don't know what other um you
know agencies in the county or uh other other related offices um the kind of email list that they they maintain. Um, so I mean, you know, that >> Eddie, what um to to blast an email to
our user, our Bvard County users through utilities, is that just making a template and then pressing the send button? >> Pretty pretty much. >> Okay. >> Answer. >> Yes. >> So,
>> thank you. I'm I'm not sure how I feel about the um user notifications, but I wouldn't be opposed to asking staff to check into it and see what it would look like. I mean, >> yeah,
>> if the board isn't opposed, I'd just like an opportunity um to kind of visit that idea and see what we can come up with because um I would like to consult with EPA and FD on some suggestions that
they have to make sure we're doing this factually correct. So, couldn't they come back with the notification when they come back with the website? Um, >> I I personally can't. I I mean, I I
barely could sleep at night knowing knowing what I knew when when I um when I when I did. So, I'm I would like to make a motion to um to direct staff to come up with an email
that we could notify um our Bvard County users um within the next 15 days. >> Okay. Is there a second to that? >> Well, hold on. >> Is that even I mean, is is that that
workable? I mean, it's easier for us to say that here, but >> we're not going to be the one to send it. So, >> we've had this information for years. >> I I'm just trying to work I'm just working the problem. That's all. >> Okay. >> I I mean, we can do something. I don't
know if it's going to appease the level the board would want. Again, this is a relatively new topic with regard to PAS about federal legislation. I would like an opportunity to consult with the state to make sure we're doing
this correctly and factual. >> Well, hold on. Is there is there maybe another municipal government who has done that? >> I gave you one. >> Well, well, no. I I I only want to get it right. I just want to want to get it right rather rather than rush.
>> So, that's that's all. >> So, is is it >> we will contact them. >> Okay. There's a motion. Is there a second? >> So, um perhaps what we need to do is is direct
staff to come up with a report, something more comprehensive, taking a look at what other local governments are doing and we can kind of move from there. It means we're moving ahead. We're moving in that direction, but we're not we're not just operating
blindly because we didn't I think that's meets the intent of what you're wanting to do. >> With all due respect, chairman, I mean, we have two members of this board who have been here for four years. Y'all have known this information. This
isn't new. >> We're talking about public health here. >> We're talking about trying to come up with a solution. We're wanting to give staff the time to do it. >> I gave you all I I gave you all three examples of of this. I asked Eddie two
weeks ago about to look and do this research in preparation for this meeting, which I'm you know I I'm guessing you haven't done because you left that question out of the email >> when she's done. We when we saw this agenda item, we
wanted to obviously get an opportunity to get feedback from the board. >> But the I asked you to do this research two weeks prior to that. >> We >> Okay. Um, is there a motion? Well,
let's deal with the website because maybe we can deal with the let's let's deal with with the website issue. Commissioner, do do you want to make that motion? Sure. We can we can take steps tonight. Do you want to take you want to make that motion? I'll make
a motion to um direct staff to look into the feasibility of a website or web page on our website um to provide information to the public about the results we
receive from our POS testing and um links to um EPA and other credible sources uh to help in fully inform the public. >> Okay, I'll second that. >> Okay, is there any discussion?
All in favor signify by saying I. >> I. >> I. >> Okay, motion passes. >> Okay. >> And we'll we'll bring that back to the which which let's give a date certain. >> Do we have a date?
>> Um well, commissioners in the agenda it says within the next 30 days. If you did it with the next 30 days, that would be the February 10th meeting. >> Um, it's actually a little bit less than 30 days because, you know, we have to put the agenda out a little bit earlier. So, it's February 10th or February 24th,
whatever the board prefers. >> Okay. >> And if I may just add, um, I just want to give >> We'll do that February 10th. >> I just want to give the board a heads up that, um, I will be reaching out to my constituents before that meeting. I'm going to be reaching out to the
constituents in Barefoot Bay. Um, unless Commissioner Atinson chooses to do so. Um, that way I can sleep at night. >> Cam. >> Okay. Um, that concludes that agenda item. That is
J7. >> Nope, that's J6. All right. The next item is J7. Legislative intent. staff direction preparing a resolution to reinstate the PACE program for residential properties. I know I asked this issue to be placed on the agenda.
PACE has been something that has been around for quite some time. It's an opportunity to give uh consumers the ability to provide capital improvements. I had to ask the question, are they able to prov? That's a good question. You know, all
these improvements ladder up to public policy issues. So, if not, then it should and I could certainly look into that and obviously very serious issue that you I appreciate the board taking seriously. >> Okay. Well, thank you. >> Uh Chris Peterson for Fortify. So,
I know that this item has been in PACE has been in Broward or Bvard County before and um it was eliminated uh uh in 21 I believe um after Commissioner Tobaya came forward a few times trying
to get rid of it and he finally did and you know to his to his um you know to his you know he he understood a lot of the issues that were going on and so we we took a lot of of what was what was what had happened in here in Bvard seriously. And what we did
is we went to Tallahassee and on July 1 of 2024, we passed SB770, something actually Commissioner Altman U and Commissioner Goodson both voted for in the legislature. Comprehensive PACE bill with a host of consumer protections that addressed issues that we had seen
in the market, pain points that we needed to rectify. Um, and we're going to go through those in a little more detail. I know I've had time to speak with each of you on this issue and so the benefit of the public we'll we'll go through this presentation as quickly as we can here. Uh we've >> a general description of PACE too a
refresher. >> Absolutely. So the the point of PACE is there is a gap in the market um folks that had been responsible homeowners. They have maintained equity in their property. They've made all their um mortgage payments and tax payments on time. they're on active bankruptcy, but
maybe they have other challenges um creditwise that uh kind of prohibit them from getting an equitable rate to make critical home improvements um such as new roofs, um impact windows and doors, HVAC units, um and more recently septic
to sewer, septic to septic replacement, uh seaw walls. So again, these aren't vanity improvements. These these ladder up to very specific public policy issues. Mitigating an insurance crisis, um keeping people in their homes, right? being able to get that new roof at a rate that's, you know, right now we're
about seven to eight%. Um, which is much better than than than what you can get without a credit score. Uh, so we are we are this is a voluntary program. I want to make it very clear there's no government money. There's no public dollars, taxpayer dollars involved in this. This is completely private
capital. There is a zero fiscal impact to the to the to the county. Um, and it is voluntary. If you don't want to use it, don't use it. If you don't like it and if you read a story in 2018 that said it was bad, then that's fine. That's your choice. As this is this is
about private property rights. It's about folks being able to make to make their own decisions about how they want to finance these critical improvements to stay in their homes and and to protect their primary asset from wind events. So I want to make that very very very clear. Um
so it is a non voluntary non-advalorum assessment and it is payback on the property tax bill. The only way we can offer a competitive interest rate without a credit score is by putting it on the tax bill. If there was a better way to do this, we wouldn't be here
right now. This is the option that that folks have have wanted to use. And by the way, 1865 residents have reached out to the Florida Pace Funding Agency asking when Bvard County will have this program back. I have every one of their email addresses and names. I'm happy to provide that information as long as I'm
not violating any PPI. Okay. that is attached to the properties to the property, not the property owner's credit. However, you need to be prepared to pay this off at the time of a sale or refinance transaction. Just like a heliloc, it's a lean on your property. Just like your mortgage is a lean on your property, so is this. It's a record
of of a transaction that will need to be satisfied before you move forward with a property sale or with a refinance transaction. Okay, this is so people say it's a lean on your property. Your property taxes go up. Yes, it does go up because you are paying back a loan. This is how it's paid back. This is how
you're able to get that interest rate. Yes, your property taxes go up. That doesn't mean the county did that. It doesn't mean it doesn't mean there's a new tax. It means that you chose to repay it in this particular form. Just like your credit card balance goes up when you use your credit card. There is no difference. So, we got to be again
very clear about that. Uh that it is a fixed term and a fixed interest rate. We don't give different interest rates to different folks. Whatever our published rate is at the time that you apply, that's the rate you're going to get. If the rate goes down before you before you uh move forward, you get that better rate. If it goes up, you get to keep the rate that you're at. Just like when you
go to get a mortgage, uh the term does not exceed the useful life of the improvement. So, it's a 20-year max. That used to be 30 years. We've dropped that down to 20. All right? And you can't get an HVAC for 20 years, right? Because that that's that exceeds the useful life of the product that we're installing. Roofs, impact windows, and doors are going to have a higher term.
HVAC systems are going to have a lower term. You can pay off at any time. Okay? Although the the 20-y year max, our average assessment life is seven and a quarter years. Most people are either refinancing or they're moving and during that time. It's very rare to see that go to term.
And again, these are payback on the on the tax bill. So again, applying for PACE, let me just kind of sum up here. We don't have door knockers. We do not go and have aggressive marketing tactics. That's not how we operate. Contractors, on the other hand, oftentimes have those types of of
marketing. They are not just offering pace. They're offering unsecured. They're offering, you know, how are you going to pay for this, right? I mean, they have sometimes they have their own in-house, sometimes they have other vendors that they work with. We are an option, one of several options that that property owners have uh when they decide
to finance these types of home improvement. Okay? It is an option. So, impact windows and doors, roofing, HVAC, you know, solar is one of those divisive ones. Some counties have chose to not have solar. They think if you if
you're going to have to use PACE for solar, then maybe you shouldn't be getting solar. I'm not going to say I disagree with that. That's one of the great things about about having home rule is if you decide that this that's not what you want to do, then you can say, "I'd like to do this program, but we're going to omit solar." I know Hillsboro County did that just recently.
Others want to have that option available for them. Just depends on what your constituents want, what the county feels is best. So, uh, we did have a couple of new improvements with this with the new, uh, SB770 and the host consumer protections. We did add septic to sewer and septic
replacement. Again, these are public policy issues. Red tide mitigation is something that's very important. Uh, so being able to offer PACE for that in conjunction with other county programs has been very successful. And then of course uh flood mitigation is also another uh new improvement uh as
well as seaw walls and generators. So we do cover up to 100% of the upfront costs is not credit based. That is the the the way this program is intended to work. Um again interest rates are based
on uh the selected repayment term. So um actually that's not even really right. Right now it's just the same term. I mean, we just have it's just it's just one one interest rate regardless of your term. We used to have a fluctuating when it was um if you had a 5-year term versus a 20-year term, that might be a
better interest rate. We don't do that anymore. It's just one interest rate. So, I apologize for the outdated slide. Uh you can combine this with utility, local, federal incentive programs. Uh it's already available commercially here in in um in Bvard County. You can uh so we're here to talk about residential.
Um you know, I used this program when I bought my house in Sarasota. Uh, we had out outdated windows and doors and where I was in Sarasota, $175 mph run rating we needed to have. I got new impact windows and doors, I secret shop my own company. I didn't tell them I was doing it. And I had a great experience. My
payment ended up being $185 a month, which I was able to to add to my escrow payment, right? I was able to escrow that, add it to my impound account. And when I notified my insurance company, my insurance rates dropped $100 a month by putting all those new impact windows and
doors. 27 impact windows and doors. So net $85. That's was pretty darn reasonable for what I got, which by the way was looked beautiful and increase the value of my property. Now that's not necessarily going to happen to everybody, but it certainly was my experience.
Uh so again, must be current on property taxes for the last three years, current on mortgage, not active bankruptcy, no involuntary leans on the property, max funding of just 20% of just value. that is set by the property appraiser and this is not some model that we use internally to determine your home's
value. We use the publish rate that the property appraiser uses. Uh an ability to pay test. That's one of the biggest improvements um that we have on the heels of SB770. Again, before July 1, 2024 was not required to have an ability
to pay test, which seems crazy and frankly maybe it is or was. But here we are today with the new ability to pay test. It has to be verified by a third party. We do not do accept stated income uh as your as a as your ability to pay test. We have to verify that. Uh several
different ways of commercially available ways to to verify that. And if we can't verify it commercially, we have we it's document collection just like uh if you were to get a heliloc or mortgage. Um to me the one of the the best consumer protections that we have is
during the application process um when you're applying for financing we will actually call each and every applicant and we go over every single term of the contract. Do you understand this is going to go on your property taxes? Do you understand this amount is going to
be added to your property taxes? That it's this amount annually, semiannually, monthly. If you choose to escrow that, here's what that monthly is. Here's the documentation you're going to need to get this added to your escrow account. Do you understand that you're going to need to be prepared to pay this off in the event of a sale or refinance
transaction? Do you understand that that you know this is a lean on your property just like a heliloc is just like a mortgage? Do you understand all of these terms? And again, recorded phone call. We learned that people were saying, "Well, I didn't know I was I didn't know this or that or the other thing." Well, let's just solve for that. Let's just solve for that. And it's an incredible
lift on our part. Takes a lot of of humans to do to do this. uh and bilingual at that both English and Spanish. But that's the the way to do this. I mean, no other no other type of property improvement, home improvement finance offers this level of consumer protections or this level of detail to
ensure folks that maybe maybe the contractor said this was a free government program, right? Oh, you oh, don't you don't have to pay for it. PACE is free. Contractors say all sorts of the darnest things out there, right? Well, they don't. This is going to reconcile how this product was discussed with each and every property owner. And
once we learn that a contractor says something that's that's that violates our marketing guidelines, we we terminate them. And then we tell all the rest of the providers that we just terminated this contractor. So, keep an eye out. Right. So, we want to make sure that, you know, we we're we're invested in long-term viability of our program.
Uh we do verify all contractor's license and permits. Um we do background checks. We want to make sure that we're working with folks that are uh that are that are not unscrupulous players. Another big consumer protection is we don't pay the contractor until the work is done and
the and the homeowner signed off on it says I'm satisfied with the work, right? And then we do an inspection to ensure that what you are financing has actually been installed on the product. So asset verification then and only then does a contractor get paid. So that gets rid of half of the contractors that are
borrowing from Peter to pay Paul, right? that that are that take your money, your down payment, and they go and they finish some other job. That does not happen. You can't do that with PACE. You have to you don't get paid until the work is done. So, that is again one of the one of the the best methods of getting rid of contractors that maybe
shouldn't be using this program. So, again, I went through most of these with you and and and you all have a copy of this presentation. I want I wanted to remind you that this mot this this this item today is to direct staff to to bring back a resolution. There will be
further discussion. You will have time to go through all of this information to use myself and my colleagues. I have Mark Shuffle from Wy Green, Rachel Hobbs from Home Run Financing and Matthew Choy from Renew Financial. All the all the industry is here. There's only four of us, right? And we are resources for you
during this process of due diligence, right? To make sure that you have all the answers to the questions that you that you that you need answered. So again, lots of different stuff that came with this. uh can't use this. If you have a uh if you have a reverse mortgage, you cannot use this program in
statute, right? There's a lot of these these little things that you should go through and take a look at and make sure that you understand what it is that these changes are. Um auditor general, so we have accountability to the state uh state of Florida's auditor general. So, we're already in the middle of a of an audit
right now. They didn't waste any time diving right in. So, anything that's going to be happening, that's all going to be published uh information. And so again, accountability is one thing that I think everybody needs uh regardless of who you are. We need a little bit of accountability and we definitely have that with PACE now.
And that's it. Home rule. Home rule has been codified. So that is why we're here today. So do you guys uh have any questions? I'm going to stop here. Um see if you guys have any questions for me. >> Any questions? Yes.
>> Yes, sir. Uh, Commissioner Feld, >> how do how does the uh so my primary lender um if you or you know my mortgage um how does how does the bank know that I got a PACE loan and they they need to start escrowing the payments?
>> So that you do or is that something the customer >> It's a two-part process. Um the the first part is how do they know and and the answer to that is that we notify them via a letter. Uh that is part of state statute as well. we are required to notify the the primary mortgage holder. The second part is how do you
escrow that? So we provide the recorded the recorded document and that is what escrow needs in order to impound add to this to your impound account. So that is something that the customer does. We walk them through that. That is actually one of the questions we get more often. That's usually a follow-up question when people say, "Hey, how do I do this
again?" So we we will walk you through those steps of how to do it. It's very straightforward, but it does require a little bit of action on the property. I asked that question because if you go through the process of getting a a PACE loan and then you know the tax bill um
when when that when that happens and all of a sudden the bank didn't escrow that and now I've got to pay I don't even know what the you know $1,000 or something um I I see if people were surprised by that in the past. Um I I can understand one of the problems but
so um it is it's in your interest right as the as the lender for the payments to be escroed. >> Yes sir. >> We encourage that very very much so. >> I mean I think for most folks it makes sense um to to spread out um the
payment. Can I uh Mr. Chair I have a couple other questions. Okay. >> What's the I'm curiosity. What's the current interest rate? >> Ours 7 and a half%. >> And >> now when mortgage rates were down at 3 4%, we were at four or 5%. It's we we're
very close to mortgages. Uh just a little bit above. >> What what's a typical term? >> Uh usually it ends up being 20 years because 90% of the improvements that we do are new roofs that impact windows and doors. Uh the HVAC are also a very big product. Those are typically 10 to 15
depending on the actual unit that you're installing. there's guidelines uh federal guidelines around around the useful life of products that we that we will follow. >> Um cuz I you know I noticed on your your slide with the some of the things that you could do um even down to insulation
and such. I I wouldn't think that's something that you would do a PACE loan just for that. Right. That would be part of an HVAC sort of overhaul. >> Correct. And and that is and that's one of the other things that gets that that gets a little bit misleading. You might get a a pace assessment for an HVAC, but
there could be duct work, installation work, all of, you know, pouring a new pad for your new for your new HVAC, having to cut through, do siding work, do trim work, do drywall work. I mean, there's all sorts of stuff that goes into installing a new HVAC system, uh, versus just swapping one out. So, yes,
that is typically in conjunction with other products. >> What's what's the typical amount? What's I mean, your your average uh amount that you're doing loans for? >> About $25,000. And out of curiosity, what's like the smallest amount that you will do?
>> 5,000. >> Five. Okay, that's your minimum. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Yes. >> Um, so if a better interest rate comes out, I can refinance my mortgage. >> I'm still waiting for a definitive answer on that. >> Got it. >> Do you do you'all know if we can
refinance, >> Mark? >> You'd have to clear it. >> I believe that we can. Yes, I know you asked that question earlier and I did ask that from my team and >> um haven't heard back, but I believe that that was the case. Um we did we did address that. >> I follow up to that just real quick. So
what what I think um I I refi because you know interest rates have gone down on my on my on my mortgage and the PACE loan stays there by itself. Is is that what you're saying? I don't I don't have to clear it in order to do a ref. depends wholly on
your lender. U when I did like I ended up getting um or I did a refinance and and my lender actually allowed me to keep it on title. Others don't have that same experience. They they would they were asked to pay it off before they originate a new force a new first mortgage. That's why we tell everybody
this is this is what you need to be prepared to do. So it is important to know that just like because if you got a heliloc they're going to make you they're going to make you pay off the helock before you get your new first mortgage. This looks very similar. It acts very similar to this on title. The only difference is our method of repayment through the tax bill versus um
you know on just on title >> and that's the that I'm sorry just for a quick followup. Um and that's why you've got to have you know the equity first. >> That's right. >> Right. Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Okay. We're running over. I'm going to ask the
board if we could have before we do that have another 10-minute break. >> Sure. Okay. Okay, >> we have a lot of cards. So, >> hey Heat. Heat.
Hey, hey, hey. like a Hey, hey, hey. Everybody. Hey. Heat. Heat.
Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Hey, Heat. girl. Hey, hey, hey. Dancing
really. Danc. I think we are item J7. We had a few questions. We do have some cards. Um and the first card >> Oh, I have >> Oh, you had a question. That's right. Okay. I don't know if he's back in here to
come up for question. Oh, there you are. Sorry about that. Um, I was wondering if you could explain more to me about the ability to pay test and what that looks like. >> Uh, yes, it is. Yep. It's a the annual assessment can't um payment amount can't
exceed 10% of the uh household income. So, we have to verify that a you're employed, b that you make x number of dollars, and that c the final payment, the annual payment doesn't exceed 10% of the income. >> Okay. And then I was also wondering about um
so the the person t taking out this loan, they get to choose if they want to do monthly, quarterly, or yearly. >> So, property taxes are paid when they're paid. they have the they have the ability because of the nature of property taxes and and and when you have a mortgage how how you can impound your
escro amount, right? And then that gets paid annually. So you have the ability to impound the additional pace obligation uh as part of your escrow payment that that will then end up getting paid uh by your escro serer right for the true up that happens every
year. So, um, if you if you choose not to, um, to to do that, you just want to pay, maybe you have already opted to pay your property taxes outside of your of your mortgage risk or you don't have a mortgage, then it would just be paid as a line item on your property taxes. >> Okay. Um, but say you do have a
mortgage, um, with this loan, the the property owner gets to decide if they want to have monthly, quarterly, or yearly, or whatever their situ. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Um, so I was wondering about would
the PACE providers be able to um fund and include a disclosure in the tax bill um that says your property taxes have gone up by X amount because of your PACE loan. >> Yeah, if that's something the county
thinks would be helpful. We do have you know that comes we have disclo paper disclosures as well as our oral uh oral confirmation terms call um and settlement papers and typically there's the county will almost ex like almost always and throughout the state of
Florida every county has our own disclosure that they typically like to include we can include that language in that if you want something separate we can do that as well I think we're pretty flexible I mean transparency is pretty important to us we want to make sure that everybody has all the information that they need to set everybody up for success so whatever the county feels is
right, we can work with you to to figure out the the nuts and bolts. >> Okay? Because I just didn't want an additional um it's it's already additional work for the tax collector, but I didn't want addition like even more additional um uh expenses um on on
them. Um >> yeah, we wouldn't we would we would certainly happy to to make that part of the deal. that just to be clear though the tax collector actually does she she is uh both she and the property appraiser are both entitled to the 2% of the annual payment as a fee.
>> So some counties choose to take much much less than that. Um others choose to take the full amount. Um so it there is additional funds that that get uh distributed to the tax collector for their efforts as part of that's a statutory requirement by the way
>> and that comes out of >> what you guys make or that's on top of >> that's on top of the propert that's something the the property owners end up paying. >> So that's why we try to you know encourage counties to not go as high as
2%. And many like I know Miami date I think was a.1%. They they almost went to just have something in there. Others others look at the actual cost that they incur incur and will you know adjust appropriately and others just take the
2% um due to whatever reason >> right and so when um I guess this question is more so for for Jim or um Morris or even commissioner Felner if you remember um because you were on the board at that time the board decided
back then to get rid of this and so I was Just wondering um was the legislation change were the legislation changes in place at that time? Um what what was the conversation around then?
>> If if I may, Mr. Chair, and respectfully, Commissioner Felner wasn't quite on the board yet. This was in August of 22, so it was shortly before I returned to county and a little before >> Commissioner Felner was elected in November. But the the changes in the Senate bill that the gentleman
referenced didn't happen until 24. So those statutory protections he discussed were not in place in 2022 when the program was rescended. >> Okay. Um as far as
complaints you've gotten since the the new legislation has been put in place, what what are some of those things? 99% of the complaints we receive have to do with contractor behavior, >> not the financing itself. Because of our
comprehensive communication uh efforts, it's very rare that someone comes back to us and says, "I didn't know this was going to happen." Um it's just we've kind of eliminated that u particular pain point that we had
experienced in the past. So again, almost exclusively have to do with the contractor left nails on my driveway and I popped the tire. They left the door open, the cat got out, they didn't do X, Y, or Z. And and and we will work with property owners to address those contractor issues because remember, they don't get paid until the
property owner says, "I'm happy." Mhm. >> Um and so, you know, that's we do spend quite a bit of time kind of playing referee between, you know, the contractor and the property owner, which frankly is unique to Pace because if you got a heliloc, the bank doesn't care if
you get a tattoo, buy a bow, go to France, they can do whatever you want as long as you make a payment, right? >> With our method, we we are an intermediary. We are somebody that the the homeowners can can look to for help. We've had situations where a contractor left the job and we ended up paying
somebody else to come out and finish it. Home owner was not put out by that process, which again, you know, luckily the contractor wasn't paid yet, right? And so, >> you know, it's it's it's again one of the benefits. It's very unique and I know being on the tax role, it is a unique program. It's it's
unconventional. It takes a while to wrap your head around, which is why I'm glad that we have some time after this to take a beat and and and ask questions and really do some due diligence cuz it it is a little bit to to wrap your head around. I'm sure you're going to hear from people holding up pictures of people saying they lost their homes and I'll tell you, I've got a lot of data to
support that that's not the case and I'm happy to share that. So, I would ask anybody that has, you know, certain things like that to to show us a little bit more data. Um >> if I may from a staff perspective in response to that same question though about complaints received and again this is pre
>> changes >> pre-staturator changes but we got we received many calls and many of the commission calls that went to commission offices would be forwarded to my office and this is after the board even had ended the program but with regard to financing that had taken place before the program was ended and FPFA actually
continued to finance even after we rescended it because of a um a bond >> judicial bond validation. >> Yes. Which I take great issue with. But at any rate, uh those complaints we receive from consumers generally
involved things like being surprised by a $2,700 increase on their tax bill or complaints that they were upsold, you know, when they needed a roof and they ended up with impact windows all around and things like that. Of course, some of those protections uh visa things like
the the um amount of financing in relationship to the value of the property weren't in place then. Uh but but those are what we heard and we we heard from people who are in fear of losing their homes because you can when it's on your tax bill and >> and Homestead doesn't protect against
that. >> I guess I can share a couple of my biggest concerns. Um, one of one of them is that we uh this program is targeted towards um people who can't necessarily
qualify for other means um because of credit history and whatever else um that's prohibiting them from, you know, going through refinancing or um any of the other methods. Um so that is a concern as far as
uh making sure that people are not taken advantage of. Um, and the piece about uh it being tied to property taxes, I'm a little
uncomfortable about now all of and I know that this is, you know, it's going to sound a little far-fetched, but um you guys now have a list of all these homes that you know are part of this
program, say they don't pay. Now you have a list of all these homes that could be bought up based upon their tax um situation. And so it's
and I'm not saying you in particular, I'm just saying like I have to protect, you know, 40,000 people or 650,000 people. Um so I'm I'm just thinking of what could possibly
come from this? What do I what would I what would I have to answer for being a policy maker? Um and I know that that is, you know, quite a thing to say and I'm not accusing anybody of doing that, but I'm
just saying it's these are just some of the things that um that keep me up at night. So to >> Sure. Commissioner, if I could respond, it's um and you know, it is a >> I won't disagree as is a little farfetched. We don't have any kind of real estate division. I won't say that
that question hasn't been posed before, but there is no, you know, nothing to support that that's something that we would be involved in. I haven't heard of that. Um tax certificate sales are, you know, those investors are all very public. They, you know, have to to do
with filings and and we certainly aren't tied to any of that. It's it's not in our best interest to put people in danger of losing their homes. I we don't we're not trying to this isn't a scheme to, you know, collect real estate holdings. It's it's it's pretty documented. That's not what we're doing.
Um but I appreciate your concern. And to be clear, the policy has been made. Uh this is an authorization to acknowledge that that you are allowing us to to operate under 163.08 in the Florida statute here in Bvoulevard County. So, you know, there is a a layer there
between you and the actual policy itself, but whatever. I certainly want to help you to feel comfortable with what we're doing. So, I encourage you to continue asking the good questions. >> Thank you. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Could could I say something just as a technical thing on on that? Every uh tax
certificate um sale is is published in the newspaper and then every tax deed auction before that happens. So after 3 years, right, of of unpaid certificates, then uh the the clerk uh will will do
tax deed auction after um the tax collector in instructs um to do that. But that's all published. So if if you're a >> I'm aware of that. >> I mean, if you're a real estate investor or whatever, that's that's the source to go to. >> Well, and and actually, I will forward you, Commissioner Delaney, I will
forward you. We did a study using only publicly available data, tax certificate sale data, department of revenue data, tax collector data, right? We use zero internal data. And what we did is we looked at since over the last since 2016 like 16. Um we looked at all the
properties in and we started with Palm Beach County, Miami Day. That's where the bulk of our assessments are. Thousands and thousands and thousands of 100,000 plus assessments. We looked at those properties that had a PACE assessment and those properties that didn't. Properties with PACE assessments
went to tax certificate sales significantly less than those properties without. And I think the reason for that and maybe this is conjecture that's fine, but is these are people trying to improve their homes. They want to stay in their home, >> right? And so they weren't like the data is objectively clear and I'm happy to
send it around. I'm happy to to post it online. I'll do whatever I can. I've distributed it widely. So if there is documented facts and oh by the way zero tax deed sales >> of pace properties properties with a pace assessment zero. >> So I'm not saying that people haven't
been forced to leave but financial situations can change for multitude of reasons. It's very easy to blame pace and and I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole but I will say that according to the publicly available data that is the that is the gospel. the I chairman may I um
I have one more question about the ability to pay test. Um so that is based on the end result the end the end number. So, like say they originally say they want to um get a new roof and this kind of go off going off of Commissioner
Felner's um comments before and then the contractor comes and he upsells them impact windows the whole the whole shebang, you know, do it. It's the end number that they go through the ability to pay test. >> So, there's there's really kind of two
layers to it. One is that you're going to have an approval amount that's based on the equity in your property and and um you know and then the project amount and then you've got from there you you'll come up with an annual payment and and based on the term and whatnot and that annual payment is what you
would then need to qualify for from an ability to pay perspective. So it's like a there's almost like a property qualification based on the improvements and then there's actual ability to repay after that. So, it is a couple layers cuz so if you if you like, oh, it's a $57,000 deal and the you know, we come
back, we're not going to tell you and certainly not going to tell your contractor what you're approved for. We're either going to say, yeah, yay, or nay. Right. And then from there, you need to be able to to demonstrate that you can afford that payment. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Could I ask a dumb follow-up question just real quick, sir?
um on on the to qualify for a PA pace loan that has to be my homesteaded property. Um or typically uh I don't you know if I had a rental or something I'm not seeking PACE funding to put hurricane protection on it. >> You can use this for rental property as
long as you're on title or if it's an LLC or or a you know a trust then it would be the members of the trust would need to be uh you know involved in the process and we need that documentation. Is that a typical thing? >> 100%. >> That >> because if you had 10 rental properties and you wanted to make improvements to
all of them, you're going to your your DTI from your bank's perspective is going to be really hard to work with. This this allows the property to really be the subject of the of the um of the abil of the financing. And then of course your rental history and all that stuff is going to play into the ability
to repay. >> I suppose the landlord um you know since it's a business that's part of their whole calculus, right? Um, and they're going to get a better probably maybe even a better rate um from PACE than they would in the in the
market because it's not their primary resident. >> I can't remember what that's called first rider. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's an investment, you know, investment property. Yeah. You typically pay a different rate for that. >> Thank you, sir. >> Yes, sir. >> You mentioned um you tested pace. You
did your own financing for windows and after the insurance savings you were only paying >> $85 a month. >> Did you factor in energy savings? >> I did not. >> So you were saving even more than that. The u it's hard to quantify because usage tends to go up when your energy
efficiency goes up. And so it's it's kind of an interesting dynamic. So I tried to stay stay away from that that conversation. But I'll tell you we are a lot more comfortable and a lot a lot healthier and a lot safer. So >> yeah. But if you were to have lived at the same level, I think in my house it
it wouldn't have made a difference individual. >> Yeah. >> Um the other question I have is did you factor in the useful life of the existing windows and amortize that, capitalize that? See how much savings you were making there? >> Probably not.
>> I mean, this is well above my pay grade, sir. I >> Well, you were very conservative. You were probably saving a lot more money than you realize. I >> I I I hope so. Um, but yeah, that's a lot of math for my brain. >> What the, um, are you aware, and I'm sure they're out there, there are PACE
financial programs where consumers actually are saving money by getting better winners, better insulation. >> I mean, everybody's different. I I would have to imagine that statistically there are those people out there, but, you know, I think it's, you know, I don't
want to lean too heavily on that um, just simply because everybody's usage is different. Everybody's goals are different. Saving money or saving energy may not be your primary focus. Um maybe reducing your insurance costs or staying in your home. And if the result of that is reduced uh energy bills, I think
that's a bonus. But typically, it's not the primary purpose of the folks that are using our fun. >> Yeah. My point is there probably individuals and there are individuals that are very scrupulous and frugal and they look at this program and see the potential of economic gain. And so it's
a it's a potential for actually saving consumers money. >> Yes, sir. >> And I think that sort of feeds into your point where PACE loans or homes are forclosed at a lower level than non-paced. Typically these programs are individuals
that are thinking them through and they want to improve their homes and then many times they want to save money. I think septic to sewer is another example of that when you look at the cost and the difficulty of getting there. So, so I think I think that there's opportunity
that we're giving the consumer and it it would penalize the vast majority of consumers for just the few of the bad outcomes >> that have been mitigated through the legislation, but I just was curious if you had factored in. I think you were very conservative
>> in your analysis and and that's good. It's good. You don't want to oversell. >> No, sir. That's probably the problem that we had with this program prior to the legislation was overselling. So, I respect your approach there. >> Thank you, sir. >> Uh, any other questions? We do have
cards. Uh, let's go to our first card. >> May I sit down, sir? >> Yes, you may. >> All right. Very good. >> Unless you're cold up here, you can jog around and warm up. I'm cold. Okay. Uh, speaking of pace, saving energy. Um,
Richard Helenfinger, >> Rick Hefinger, District 1. Um, I only had a couple questions. We We know that in 22 that uh a commissioner put together some information and said this was predatory lending. Maybe the answer is that the program has been improved. I
don't know. It's always buyer beware. But um I guess one of my questions is this was on the agenda says uh in control was who in m was miscellaneous. I think I just want to know I realize these guys are asking permission of you
to provide a product so that you will accept the fact that they're going to put this on the tax bill. So you guys are doing billing for them or at least the tax assessor is right. And I don't think this had a cost. Has the tax assessor been contacted and said, "Hey,
because it turns out I think there's a fee for the T 2%. I heard a 2% number, >> but that but that's the the lender paying that. Is any money going to offset the cost to the tax assessor who has to deal with this
situation?" >> I think what he said that there is a fee that can go to the tax assessor to reimburse their cost >> and that varies. It can go up has the tax assessor been asked that question that >> it can go up to 2% >> in Bvard >> and most don't even yeah I've personally
spoke to the tax at length about this issue >> and they don't want any money >> well no that's not the case if if it costs the tax assessors money they have the ability if they so choose to have a fee up to 2% to reimburse their cost so the
general consumer is not having to pay for the overhead that may be incurred by the tax assessor If if I may if if I remember what um the gentleman said before was that this fee does go to the consumer, the person who
gets the the PA loan, >> they pay it. Was that >> Did you want to Did you want to respond? >> I I just I just don't how the county because I think we're asking for additional work on you guys, which is why he has to ask, right? Because we're he's asking the county to perform. You want to say you're you're collect.
>> Let him answer your question. There's a 2% pass that does get passed through the consumer as part of a fee of cost of doing business. So that fee does offset the tax collector's um uh labor for putting these on the tax roll. County doesn't have any obligation here. We
actually provide updates or or reporting to at at their discretion, but um there is no real county involvement outside of the property appraisal tax collector and they both get 2% up to 2% if they choose. So, so the tax collector does get additional resources to handle your
work. >> Correct. But, but that's 2% that the lender paid and that that gets passed. >> Okay. So, this is a revenue source somewhat. >> Yes, sir. >> To the the tax assessor's office. >> Correct. >> Oh, okay. Well, that's that was my biggest question. I'm I'm still a little bit, you know, I guess it's buyer
beware. I don't have a problem providing a lending opportunity to somebody as long as they realize that, dude, you just put it on your tax bill and you could be foreclosed for it. Right. >> Correct. Yeah. Or could they pay the county their part and screw you on the tax bill? I don't >> I ask that question about garbage all
the time. >> Okay. Thank you. Stell Bailey. Next speaker, >> Ste district 1. Um people in Bvard are barely hanging on right now. The insurance is exploding. Roofs are failing. We have flooding. We even have
victims of flooding here in um the room. And I do have some concerns about PACE because of their history. Um, if you research PACE's history and the predatory practices and a lot of the articles that you bring up, it's very,
very concerning. It seems to be disgu debt disguised as relief. It puts a lean on your house. It gets paid through your property taxes. And if you fall behind, you don't just get a late fee. You risk losing your home. and we already have people risking losing their home here in Bvoulevard County with the flooding and
they say that this will help but the board shut it down in 2022. Um, another thing that I want to bring up and I I'm a big believer in transparency especially when it comes to lobbying because they are paid to convince you guys to do something.
And so I just want to put it on the record that I realized that Renew Financial had hired Satellite Beach Mindy Gibson and Courtney Barker as their lobbyist. And this question matters for the sake of transparency. That's all. I'm curious if any one of
you met with any of these lobbyists or this company prior to this item appearing on this agenda. Again, I'm a big believer in transparency. I think there's a lot of people in this community that would agree. They would just want to know. As
simple as just knowing. Did you >> I'll say that I met with Mr. Peterson. >> I appreciate that. >> Yes. >> Just having honesty. >> That's it. >> That's it. Um >> and and and I did I intentionally I reach out to individuals so I can learn as much as I can and and these issues.
But >> I did I might say spent many many hours in the legislative process as well when pace when pace came before the Florida legislature. We address these problems and you know we believe in giving
consumers choice and options and we thought it was a good thing. It's a good thing. >> Absolutely. For me it's a consumer. appreciate your honesty and I I wish we could do that more with government because I think that builds trust between the people and their representatives that they know who they're meeting with and they're speaking with. Um because there's people
that live here and that was my concern because this company um especially the one that I just mentioned looks like they're from California. Uh I believe Bvard needs more affordable insurance, stability, protection. I don't know about bringing this back. Um I think
people need to do their due diligence. I'm really not for them exploiting families that have been impacted by POS contamination just because um the government is responsible for the infrastructure and to expect people to get a loan that could go against their
house for contaminated water is crazy to me. Same thing with septic to sewer. I think that we could be uh addressing that in different ways than than PACE loans. But thank you, >> Senator Sullivan. Sandra Sullivan sells Patrick Shores.
So, uh, just an easy search here. So, while the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau finalized new stricter rules for PACE financing in early 2025, applying truth and lending act till Tilla requirements to treat them as mortgage
loans. Significant issues remain unressed. Controversy persists because the changes did not fully resolve the fundamental risks associated with placing a super priority lean on residential properties particularly for vulnerable homeowners.
Um this means that in the event of foreclosure the PACE loan is paid before the primary mortgage keeping the risk to homeowners high. Uh they do not prevent high it says um while the new pace creditors new rules require pace
creditors to verify their ability to repay they do not prevent the high interest rates and fees that often make these loans costlier than traditional financing. Um, it also does not address the predatory sales tactics often used by
third-party contractors who are not traditional lenders such as door-to-door marketing that misrepresents PACE as free government money. Inadequate energy savings which fail to deliver promised energy savings failing to materializing
leaving homeowners with both the debt and high utility bills. lean stacking with some consumer advocates calling for a total overhaul or ban on residential pace impact on low income proace programs continue to target lowincome
elderly or cognitively impaired homeowners who may not understand the long-term tax lean. And it says um also that in Florida major lawsuit involves
local tax collectors challenging the statewide expansion of a quasi governmental agency highlighting the tension between rapid private financing expansion and local public accountability. I'm going to just say this. They have a history of predatory
practices and I would not assume that that's going to change. Here are a couple from the 2022 presentation that was done. And um this one here, they lost their home. And so unlike 2022 when
the commissioner when Tobaya brought this forward with his presentation with facts, what I see is a lobbyist comes down and sits down with you. Your mind looks already made up. year ago for this already on something with a company
known for predatory practices. Stell posted something about a about a federal law a federal investigation into them. I mean, you should be airing on the side of protecting the public on a on an entity that has been known
for predatory practices and according to just a simple search still has predatory practices. Shame on you. Mindy Gibson. >> I told her to get her camera out. Hi, Mindy Gibson, Satellite Beach, uh, 110
Sherwood Avenue. Former council woman. Um, yes, I was hired by this organization to help them navigate their way through the city and through the county, um, within Bvard County. And, um, I wanted to speak to you a little bit about this program. Uh, our city
manager, Courtney Barker, we have had the PACE program in Satellite Beach for about 5 years. Indian Harbor Beach also has a PACE program as well as Cape Canaveral. Courtney Barker, our city manager, actually utilized the PACE program herself in her previous home,
had um hurricane windows put into her home that was built in the 1960s and uh then proceeded to sell her home, which it was paid off and bought another home. It was very seamless. She's unfortunately not able to be here to explain her process, but I I if you want to talk to her about it, she'd be more
than happy to do it because she wanted to test it out and see if it was predatory. As they say, there is there's predatory practices in the construction world regardless of PACE program. And to say that they're the problem when the lender is just simply giving you a pathway for people that might not have
the credit to be able to buy, you know, these these necessary necessary upgrades such as roofs, windows, um you know, septic to sewer if you're not by the water. Um yes, those are those are things that sometimes, you know, homeowners have to do. So, I would, you
know, implore you to consider taking this on, working through it, finding out what makes you comfortable. It's not forcing anybody to use it. They they have an option. You know, a heliloc loan could put a lean lean on your house just like anything else and take your home from you, you know, so can a mortgage.
So, I think that as long as it's transparent, as they said, I think the Florida legislature has said that it's okay. They've worked through it. They've worked through the issues. There's almost 30 counties almost half the counties in the state have approved this and I'm sure that more cities within in
the county will also follow suit. So I would just ask you to consider it. You can work through whatever issues you have and again the the it's the people can make the choice. You're not forcing them. You're just giving them an option to make that choice. So that's just all I have to say. Thank you.
>> Thank you and thank you for your advocacy for your residents. Okay, Rachel Hobbs. Uh, good evening. Excuse me. Good evening, commission staff. Um, Rachel Hobbes, Home Run Financing. I just wanted to say, uh, thank you for your
consideration. Um, I'm with Home Run Financing. We're one of the four, uh, PACE providers here, um, in Florida. And, yep. Thank you for your consideration and happy to answer any questions as you work through the process um with further consideration.
I'm happy to provide any details um as as your questions arise. Thank you. >> Thank you Mark Sheffle. Thank you, chairman, commissioners. Uh Mark Shuffle with Y Green Energy Fund, also one of the PACE financing partners,
providers, uh referred to in the statute as a third party administrator, and I too would like to add my voice to the chorus of applauding you for taking this on and considering this and would encourage you to continue the process. Uh it does not end here tonight. And I believe your your um continuation tonight instructs us to work with staff
and prepare documentation for your further consideration where such things commissioner Delaney where a bolstered disclosure could be considered. PACE at its heart is about attracting and deploying capital to much needed improvements into your in your community
and that has been done all over the state. This was not done uh done by trickery or accident. This was a policy decision by the legislature in Tallahassee in 2010 to encourage investment in a very limited number of projects that has been done literally as
was pointed out um well over 100,000 projects deploying over $2.5 billion mostly in the area of storm hardening and hurricane preparedness. um that was completely re-examined in 2024, part of
a nearly five-year project with uh legislative partners in Tallahassee to take a look at the details of this program. Any of the naysayers that talk tonight, none of what they say is surprising to anybody. We're aware of all the stories. We're aware of all the articles. We're of all aware of all the
situations and literally sat down with the idea of how can you take the good, leave the bad. Everybody knows that the weak link in this whole equation is the contractor. That's that's something we all know and experience daily. That's you especially see that in unsecured financing. And so the question is how can we do this? How can we take this
this four-legged stool of financing and the homeowner and uh the the consumer and then the contractor and figure out how to do that? And that's what what uh 770 which was passed in in 2024 did. And it was mentioned we we've seen great results from that. um mostly because
heart and soul of this program is to inform and educate folks, make sure they understand. That's the source behind the recorded phone call. And just a reminder, all the things that we've been talked about, my colleague did an excellent uh presentation. All of those things are are they're all codified. All
the things that we're talking about is was contained in what was a very dense 40-page bill out of Tallahassee. all the things we're discussing about the uh disclosures and the um contractor oversight. There's a provision in there that as this advances and you consider
this, you actually um work to do a contractor registration process that we would work with you on so that we know who these folks are so they can be delisted if they're breaking the rules. Marketing restrictions so that you can't promise this as a free program or sponsored by you all. And so, um time is
short and you've had a very long night and you've you've considered some very critical things. I just would encourage you to continue the process and we look forward to working with you. >> Could I ask a quick question, Mr. Chair? >> Sir, are there any um today was the first day of legislative session. Are are there any bills going through the
legislature this year that No, that's going to affect you. >> Something we monitor very closely. >> I'm sure. >> And uh No, >> I was just curious. Thank you. And >> we'll continue to monitor it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Matthew Choy. Good evening, chair, commissioners. My
name is Matthew Choy. I work for Rene Renew Financial and I'm one of the four companies here in Florida that's able to provide pay statutes. Um, I will agree with everything my colleagues earlier said. There was just a couple things that I wanted to highlight quickly and not take up too much of the commission's time. The first is just the idea of transparency. One of the things we do
now, and I just worked with Hillsboro County on this because they opted in in 2024. I'm sorry, 2025 is that they actually receive quarterly reports about each type of assessment, the dollar figure, the home, you know, what that assessment is on a quarterly basis. So, there's really no gotcha, there's no
surprises here. We very much want to be as transparent as possible to make sure that you got you folks know what's happening inside your county. And the other thing I'd like to highlight just as this continues to uh h we continue to have this discussion is that residential pace is a very unique financial tool,
right? And it's not necessarily intuitive about where the money goes, how it works, because it's, like I said, it's just a unique financial tool. So, what we look forward to is having the discussion, maybe even a deeper dive than what we were able to give in this presentation through the workshop or through one-on-one um interactions or
and meetings to really deep dive into all of specifics in case there are questions that you guys have that we weren't able to answer tonight. So, the but we just want to say that we're going to be a uh a resource for everyone and please feel free to reach out um if we can answer any questions. Thank you. Okay, thank you. That is uh the last of
our cards. Uh any uh discussion? >> I have some >> I do have a mo Well, I have a motion. I can pass the goblin and do that if that >> I have some discussion if you don't mind. >> Sure. Um I um I guess the thing that I'm wrestling with um in
my mind is am I comfortable with the government's taxing authority to enforce a private home improvement loan? Um and that I'm not quite sure of. Um, one
of the things that I talked to Morris about in our briefing was, um, what is it? Look, what since the legislation, since the new legislation, are there still things out there that
um, this could possibly not go well for the homeowner? And unfortunately, it was yesterday, so it doesn't give them a whole lot of time to, you know, research that. Um, so I I'm
proposing possibly tableabling this item to give Morris a chance to give us um that information to um that way if we do decide to go forward with this then maybe we can put some things into
the language that could add to consumer protections. If I can ask just for clarification, I think we're talking about maybe some additional consumer protections at a local level. I'm aware of some other counties. I think Hillsboro County was mentioned by Mr. Troy. I I know I'm in a
group with some other county attorneys that have discussed this sort of thing. So, I I can put together some options for the board if the board would like to see those in addition to the uh additional protections that were put into statute in 24 if that's something the board's interested in.
>> Thank you. Any other discussions? Um, I'm going to pass the gravel. Uh, I make a motion. I'd like to make a motion that we uh direct staff to prepare documentation for us to uh
consider uh PACE program here in Bvard, including uh the items that uh Commissioner Delaney uh mentioned some of the additional consumer protections that we could consider to strengthen the uh the protections that was discussed.
>> I have a motion. Do I have a second? >> I have a question. Um, so what we're doing right now is not approving this. It's approving us to go to the next step to see language. >> Correct. >> Okay, I can second that. >> We have a motion by Commissioner Alman
and second by Commissioner Delaney. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Motion passes unanimously. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. Appreciate that. Thank you. Okay. Um, we have one more item. Um,
>> no, we got two more. That's true, Adam. Letter to legislative delegation relating to Senate Bill 180 and potential legislative changes. >> I don't know who put >> That's me. >> That's you. Okay, good. >> Thank you. Um, so I know that we've all
talked repeatedly about SB80. Um and it has come to my attention that many of our legislators um our delegation in fact didn't quite understand
uh what they were passing and how it was going to affect our county individually. Um, I've sat down, like I said before, using my relationships, um, to get a feel for how they feel about this this fix, which is SB840, which goes some
way, uh, towards rectifying some of the the problems that we have, and and if we will all bear with Billy, and if he doesn't mind, could you just give a a short synopsis of the letter that we've put together um, and how that's going to
help educate some of our uh legislators so that when they're talking to their colleagues in Tallahassee, they have facts. Um, specifically, one of our legislators thought that we had not turned in um necessary information on time. >> Uh thank you, Commissioner. Yeah, I
think the letter does a a good job of summarizing uh how we got to where we are today, the history with the uh the county going through the ear process as well as the implementation of the area critical state concern. um properly meeting all timelines and then SP 180
passing and then having that having section 28 in particular of SB80 having retroactive effect leading the county into its current condition of non-compliance as it relates to its comprehensive plan and then in additionally he talks about how SB840
fixes some of the problems that SB80 caused not all of them but most importantly at least from my perspective is from planning Um, it sunsets section 28 early in June of 2026, which would effectively restore
home rule authority over development uh, regulations moving forward absent a future storm. And then in the event of a future storm, it also makes some improvements to section 18 of SB 180 that applies to in the future. So,
ultimately, like I I think like you said, uh SB840 does a lot of good for the county. It's not perfect. Um but, uh it is nothing but good things, >> right? >> May I? Sure. >> So, um the other thing that's important
is right now our unique area of state critical concern is at risk because um SB80 well puts it at risk. We'll just say that um 840 helps with that. And again, sitting down with some of the
legislators as I did, uh they were all very positive about receiving this letter to help them, like I said, talk to their um colleagues in Tallahassee. So, and I've also asked for my signature
to go on it just because I am so passionate about the fact not just because it's area of state critical concern, but because it affects all of Bard County and how the county is functioning. So, oh, also um it didn't get a companion bill, but but today um
it went through um the state or the Senate community affairs and it passed 800. It has uh two more committees to go through, but that's promising that it it passed 800. And obviously our legislators know more about what that might mean for it in the future.
Now I'm quiet. >> I have a question. >> Not a legislator. >> I wasn't. Um Go ahead. Sorry. >> More experience. >> Morris, didn't you say um am I remembering this right? That there is
now a House bill that's a companion It's not >> when I talked to you that was the case. But there's a House bill. They're not identical, but there was a House bill filed at the end of the day Friday. Um >> HP 1465, I think.
>> 1465 is it? Yeah. >> Okay. And it is or is not a companion. >> Well, >> sort of. >> Yeah, it's Yes. >> Okay. >> Can I say something real quick? Go ahead. Yeah, I was say I'd like Billy to address that because my understanding is is it's pretty largely incompatible with
with 840. >> There are significant differences. It could be used as a vehicle, I think, to match SB840. Um, it does touch on a lot of the same subjects, but there are very large differences between the two and it does
not help Bard County in particular like SB840 does because it does not subset that problematic section early. Instead, section 28 would still apply to us until June of 2028 and continue to significantly limit your home rule authority, although not as much as it
does today, >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes. >> Say something on that real quick. Um, those those two bills are are not identical to your to your point. Um, and that was filed by a member. I I think it would be realistic that this all could
get wrapped up in a committee bill as you well know in the House. So I you know if you're watching this and what's going to happen I I would suggest at least on the House side you're going to you're going to see it later. So to that point, Billy, we like the House version
better current or we like the 840 um Senate uh bill better. >> From the staff perspective, it's the Senate version, >> right? Absolutely. the Senate from county attorney perspective >> looking at the bill it's house bill was sponsored by very respect respectable
and capable house member so >> it probably was intentional different um there was it's going to become probably >> came late though >> but >> came late >> came late but that's probably was by design too very little happens by mistake there >> and it probably will become one of those
issues that will be negotiated ated >> in session to be held hostage for other priorities and issues, but Andrade is a very good legislator >> and so I feel better when I see who sponsored it. It's >> it's going to be that typical making the sausage process and probably will be
part of a bigger package of many many other issues that are going to be fought over. But I think it's positive that we have a companion um >> Oh, we have a card. >> One card. >> Oh, one card. Um, Senator Sullivan,
Sandra Sullivan, very short. I see conflicting uh opinions on whether as a county you can increase impact fees as a consequence of Senate Bill 180. And if you could if we could clarify as it
stands right now, can you because you have a study out there that you're bringing back and then do if the answer is no, do either of these bills fix that. >> It's a request to ask.
>> Okay. Well, that's a good question and I probably I don't know what probably the most I mean you never know what a judge is going to do and how you interpret a law and this is a relatively new law but do we have a staff responsible? >> We we would take the position that we can increase impact fees that you can
>> that we're not prevented from doing that by the existing legislation. But it is an open question. And if I could just answer the second part, SP840 resolves that question as of June of 2026. >> All right, answers both your questions. They're good. >> Sorry, Mr. Chair. I can answer the
third. We didn't let it slow down our impact fee uh study. >> Okay, we're moving ahead. >> Okay. Um so I think a motion to uh approve Commissioner Atinson's letter and for her to sign it. Vice Chair.
>> I'll second. There you go. That works. Sign it. However you like it. >> So, okay. There's a motion second. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Passes unanimously. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Now, our final item, the Bvard
County Commission letter to the >> Does anybody want to introduce this? Yes. I'll let you do that. >> Um, so I brought this item forward. I'm requesting that the board of county commission sign a a joint letter requesting the community engagement
meeting to be moved to a larger venue with adequate parking and live stream access and formatted with a structure um a structured presentation question and answer and time for formal public comment. Um, I I understand that we
can't dictate um what the FT does, but we can certainly advocate. And I've been a part of these sidebar meetings so many times. And as a citizen, I just felt so um frustrated
because it was just um a lot of gaslighting and you never knew where your comments were going and it was just very frustrating. And um so
I reached out to um our our delegation and basically the answer that I got from them was um we can try to talk to FD but this is really the governor. And so I I reached out, you know, of course, to the
governor's office and um I don't I don't have his phone number, so, you know, it's uh um I I haven't really gotten much of a response. Um, but I just feel like this is too important of an issue and it impacts our
community so um so severely that our community is owed a real um civic engagement opportunity here. And with the venue that they have, um, even with I believe that staff has figured out
some extra parking situations, um, to get more people in the doors, but the the the room is still considerably small. And I remember being at the, um, the community meeting where we talked about Lorie Wilson Park last year or
about a year and a half ago. And um I mean we packed the house out of a room that probably could fit 500 people. Um it was standing room only and this is so much bigger of an issue than that was.
So I I mean just the idea that they're going to host this in such a small room. Um it's extremely concerning to me. I've had so much um so many people reach out to me seeing if there's anything we can
do. I I'm sure your offices have been reached out to as well. And um I'm I I worked a little bit with um to get some staff feedback on on the letter that I provided and um so that we could you know I just wanted
to make sure that it was right um so that we could send it to um the right people and it be the right thing and um hoping to get support. >> Got to say one technical thing here Mr. Chair. Yes, >> if you don't mind.
>> So, when I suggested the Simkins Center, I did that for several reasons. One, also I I think it's kind of it was central to where a lot of the, you know, I think the the public would come from Merit Island and what have you. Um, good
parking, all those things. So, I so I defend I defend that. Um, but I think I understand in the meantime that's not available now. Um, so either it wasn't booked timely or, you know, they need such and such notice or if there's there's something
else. So I think I heard that secondhand that that's that's not a possibility anymore. So >> just technically with your letter, I think you'd have to strike that and if the board's going to vote for it tonight, then possibly email it to um the chair and then, you know, he could
print it tomorrow and send it from his office. I think that's what you're going to have to do. And you know, if there's something else to suggest in there as a as a large venue. I mean, I the reason that I suggested that in the first place was I think it's unreasonable to ask a
state agency to come here and then expect them to book the ballroom, >> right? >> I don't I don't think that's, you know, a smart thing to do. So, but >> how about this? How about our chambers? >> I think she says that here a government
center campus. >> Okay. because we have multiple um overflow areas as well that people could be in. >> I agree with you on the parking. Um I I mean I you go there for a lunch,
>> right? >> And I think it's a known fact. Uh you better get there 11:30 for a 12:00 lunch or you're you're not going to park in the parking lot. So anyways, >> there's a safety concern as well that >> Anyways, I think you'll have to fix that. But with with that change,
commissioner, I'll I'll go with you on this letter. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Motion being ordered. >> So moved. >> I'll second. >> Motion second on the letter. All in favor say I. I. Motion passes. That is the >> Thank you, board. >> No problem. >> Good letter.
>> All right. Public comments. Do we have comment cards? Looks like we do. >> Did we have a card? I'm sorry. We missed it. I was late. Well, let's go ahead and Okay. Is that okay? Richard too and stealth.
>> Okay, it's good. Sand. All right. Thanks. >> All right. So, just pertaining to the Blue Origin one, Sandra Sullivan. It's it I appreciate you stepping up on this. Um Katie, you've done a lot on this. Um it just is a a bad optics when you
choose a location for something as highprofile and as many people that if there's a perception of dissuading people from coming in and participating and so I just want to say thank you for taking all of you supporting addressing
this and you might you know I I see it's addressed to the secretary of D but it's easy enough to pick up the phone too and give Aaron Watkins a call, the director, and uh have one-on-one as a as a chair. I'm sure you know him really well.
>> Thank you, >> Richard. Hell Helenfinger. >> Are we public or >> public comment? >> Yeah, public comment. >> Yeah. >> Rick Hefinger, District 1. Uh I just wanted to use this opportunity and in the past I've done this to to make comments generally about the meeting and
I will give kudos to Mr. Alman about the way he's running the meeting. Um you you engage people and again that idea of me about wanting to have fornowledge of things so I can give stuff to you so that you have staff here. That's kind of why I wanted that. And you're willing to use staff and I appreciate that. So
that's a good thing. I also think you should have chairman on your placard man. >> Oh yeah. And because because the public when I I do a lot of the watching it up there and I also like to when you guys use staff I see that every once in a while that somebody gets put up there. It's important for me to kind of know
who's answering a question and it helps me understand the the pol the procedure or who the people are that you guys are calling on to to make these decisions. So I'd like to see more of that. But other than that um maybe you can answer one question. We got a garbage contract this year to negotiate. Is that true? I
don't know if you got anybody here for that, but I think it is >> on the garbage can. >> Do we have >> I'll be I'll be interested. I think it is this year. All right, that's that's all. >> Thank you. >> Do we know that when the when we >> Yeah, let me Tom, if I'm telling it
wrong, jump up and yell at me that we could have a garbage contract this year if Waste Management is not interested in extending and if we could agree to terms on the extension. >> Okay, thank you. Thank you for that, Nancy. >> Albert.
Well, we spent all this time on pace. Okay, I learned a lot. But all I want to do is save our houses in North Peard. We lost 30 homes. I was here last month. I told you all about it. Uh, the ditches
haven't been cleaned. Nothing. I've met with the St. John's manage water management. They came out. They can't find Tom Goodson said there's an artisian well. There's still water in the streets.
Um, the ditch line is so full of trees. The trees are bigger around than I am. And how do you expect drainage? Everybody's lost their houses. 30 houses. So, can we please get a little help?
And all my neighbors would be here tonight, but they all work and they can't do this. So, I'm here representing all 30 neighbors that lost their house and one of them filed bankruptcy. >> Thank you.
If if I may, um I I just want to let all the neighbors know that um I'm going to be going out there again with um one of our staff members on Thursday. And um so I look forward to seeing everybody and let letting them show us around again.
Um, and uh, I also just want to put out there that our first budget um, workshop is January 29th and that's at 100 p.m. Um, and that's going to be talking about the um, public works, storm water, and
utilities. So hopefully that can be kind of part of the conversation that day between the board. One more thing. I'm a breast cancer survivor since 1999. That's a lot of years of being clean.
My cancer was environmental. I'm a Mims girl raised on a well and I've drank Titusville water all my life. So, this water situation, which I didn't
know how to address that, but wow, that just opened my eyes. Thank you, Katie. You're doing an awesome job. >> Okay, that concludes our agenda and we will go I think it's all the public comments, board reports.
Uh, we'll start with county manager. >> I have no b no board report, Mr. here. >> Uh, county attorney, >> no report, Mr. Chair. >> District one. >> I just have a short one tonight. Um, I just want to put out there we are looking forward to seeing everyone um,
seeing the thoughtful submissions to our SpeakUp Bard program that has a closure date of January 31st. Um, if you have expertise that you would like to share with the county that could help our effectiveness and efficiency to what we
are um and improve what we're doing, we want to hear from you. Um, you can you can even make a submission as a group or with a nonprofit. You could um all you have to do is go on to the Bvard County website um or you can type into Google
Google speak up Bard and um it'll pop right up and um as of 1 p.m. today there have been 23 submissions so far. Um, my newsletter
uh that's on my Facebook page and in our North Bard Libraries um has information on this and as well my Substack has a Q&A on how to make uh submissions. Um all you have to do is
Google Katie Delaney Substack and you'll find it and it's one of my articles that is in my citizen toolbox series. Um, and basically this program helps connect citizens with the government. So, make
sure you um get those submissions in before uh January 31st and we can't wait to hear those things. Um, and I just want to um make one one note about the POS conversation. Um,
some of the reason why I brought this forward today was because, um, there are people out there who, uh, some of the feedback that I've gotten, they've it it's been, well, it's not coming from the government, so, you know, we're not worried about it. They'd tell us if it
was a problem. So, um, you know, that's that's why I'm bringing this forward because there is an a a feeling out there from the public of if it was a problem, we would tell them. So, I just wanted to share that. >> Okay. Thank you. Um,
Commissioner Atkinson, >> no report, >> Commissioner Felner. to say very quickly um we had great public participation in two lagoon workshops in Titusville and Palm Bay. Appreciate everyone who came
out for that. I appreciate all the staff. Thank you again to City of Titusville and City of Palm Bay for their hospitality of making the chambers available to us and all the rest of the staff. We had clerk to the board came to
those two meetings. Thank thanks to them >> and everyone uh greatly appreciate. Also, I'll say that um for the first time in a while went to a women's basketball game at um what's BCC to me, but Eastern Florida State College. My
wife played college ball and um it's at the Melbourne campus, so their current uh season. And uh unfortunately BCC lost by three points in overtime. So, it was it was a very tight game. It was a lot of fun. It
>> the I I I think we'll we'll do that next time. Uh we'll we'll get that information together. But anyways, it's free. Okay. So, if you're looking for something cheap to do >> and thank you to Commissioner Felner for snacks and food at the workshops.
>> Yes. Thank you. Appreciate that >> for your good work in that workshop is very >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Very helpful. I have no report and I think that concludes our our meeting. Meetings adjourned. >> The opinions expressed by any member of the public during any period of public
comment do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the board of county commissioners of Bvard County, Florida, Space Coast Government Television, or the program sponsor and are solely those of the presenter. The board of county commissioners of Bvard County, Florida, Space Coast Government Television, and the program sponsor hereby expressly
disclaim any and all responsibility or liability for any defamatory or slanderous statements expressed by any member of the public during any such period. Hey, hey, hey.