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[Music] [Music] Good afternoon everybody and welcome to the TDC council meeting. We uh hopefully
we'll have a quorum here. Um let's do the pledge of allegiance and then we'll do roll call. Okay. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. >> Well, we know the mayor of Palm Bay is here. Happy Veterans Day. I didn't see it yesterday. Okay. Uh let's call the roll. >> Lily Braa, >> Mayor Connor
>> here. Chair Felton, I mean, I'm sorry. Vice Chair Hermanson >> here. >> About that. Larry John >> here. >> Alex Litress >> here. >> Mayor Medina >> present. >> Wayne Sar >> here. >> John Moran. >> Chair Felner
>> here. Is that a quorum? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Quorum's present. We'll call the meeting to order. Any uh disclosure? Anything anyone needs to say before we get started? No. We'll go on to the minutes. Everyone had a chance to review
the minutes for October 22nd. Questions on that? Is there a motion to approve the minutes? >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. >> I have a motion by Larry JS. Is there a second on the minutes? >> Second.
>> Okay. Have a second by Wayne Sword. We'll call the role on that. >> Mayor Cons. >> Yes. Vice Chair Hermanson, >> yes. >> Larry John, >> yes. >> Alice Litra, >> yes. >> Mayor Medina, >> I >> Wayne Sword,
>> yes. >> Chair Felner, >> yes. We'll show those approved. Thank you, uh, members. Appreciate that very much. And I guess we'll go right into Mark Peterson. Peter. So, >> yes, sir. There had been a couple of questions, I think, that the um TDC had
a few months ago, and um, Mr. Peterson and I believe he's brought someone with him uh was gracious enough to come and answer some of the questions. So >> Mark, you're very welcome and thank you for coming today. We greatly appreciate it. >> Um
my I'm Mark Peterson. I'm the assistant finance director for county finance for the county. Um I have been with the county for number of years. Um, and I brought with me, um, Andrew Walcott, um, who I'll be
retiring here in less than a year, and so he's going to be taking over on the investment piece. Um, I said, actually, I've been with the county for 43 years. Um, so I've been been around and seen the investments grow throughout those
years. And my understanding in talking with both Peter and um Commissioner Felner is giving an overview of the investments, how all the funds that come in, what happens to it. Um we have one
single bank account. Um and from there we pull all the funds together. some monies that comes in for TDC monies that come in a big piece this for the last several years is soil funds um large
amount of money comes in. So how do we invest it? We don't invest it specifically for on behalf of a department or on behalf of a particular program. We consolidate it. We consolidate all the investments and then
we have an investment committee and we'll then piece that out between what's long-term, short-term, um those that are even longer term and over the years we have expanded that. At one time it was
just all invested by myself and um in the finance department, but we created an investment committee. We we went out with the long-term portfolio is we outsource that to a fin a investment
advisor and they've been with us and they invest that long-term piece. We continue to invest short-term which is a year in in um one of the primary places that we invest those funds is is in local government investment pools. It's
basically a money market account, but they invest in a multitude of of things. So, we invest we pull pull all the money together, which right now we're exceeding a billion dollars in
investments. Um, that portion of TDC money is about 38 million. So, from the grand scheme of things, that 38 million is really minuscule to the to the total. To give you an idea, soil funds, the
cash that soil has is about 450 million that's been collected over the past seven years. Um, we have separate funds for every department, every program has a separate fund. So, we account for those monies
individually. So we can tell you TDC whether it's for um say beach nourishment or whatever we can tell you how much money is in that of that pool this amount of money is just
for that. Um so as far as the investment of of the funds um the board had approved administrative or yeah administrative order 49 that highlights what we can we can purchase what we can
do that's been amended over the years back probably around 20 years ago it was very plain vanilla and that's treasuries agencies um the the various home loan banks. Um, and
so it's very very safe, but we're also not getting the benefit of investing in corporate notes um or municipal bonds or things. So when we brought on the investment advisor then we expanded and we have the
investment committee that meets on a quarterly basis to to review uh to ensure that we are kind of basically what's happening with the market what are eligible things and over the years the committee has things have come up to
say hey can we invest in super nationals can we invest in assetbacked securities can we invest in some of these other instruments that can give us better yield. And so the committee has discussed it. We've talked with
commissioners and we I mean in the past the com the commission has said yes let's go go go for for that. Um we do diversify the portfolio so not everything we have restraints we cannot invest more than 5% in any one entity
um and within even the sectors exception is US treasuries we can invest 100% of the portfolio in treasuries but we're not going to do that um because when the market no matter where the market is we want to continue to to
generate a a sizable earnings. We do we are allowed to invest in CDs with banks but as a public fund if I you might see along the the side of the road I mean banks or you might talk to a banker and say hey what kind of interest rate can
you can you give us say hey we currently can give you 7%. as a public entity, I'm not going to get that 7% because for every dollar that I put into that bank, they have to put up security with um the
state to ensure our public funds. One of the requirements with within the state of Florida that's unique, we have a qualified public depository. I cannot put money in just any bank. It has to be in a qualified public depository. What
that means for for the county as a whole is if that bank went under, they would first sell the FDIC insurance to try to make us whole. If that doesn't make us whole, then we would go to the state and the state would then pay us
the balance. So, public funds are secure. Um there are municipal entities that do put money in banks that are not qualified in the state of Florida. Um but that's that's a risk that they are
taking on. We could also invest in CDs outside the state of Florida. And there's instruments out there that people consolidate buying CDs in the amount of like $100,000 and they buy from 10 different banks. So
they're securing us by saying, "Hey, we got money in 10 banks, but I just have one CD." Well, CDs usually do not compare with corporate notes, asset backs, so we really don't do a lot in that that
arena. Um again the portfolio is very diversified um with the LGIPs local government investment pools. I don't know how familiar you are with those. Those programs are established either through
uh local agreements with a a state agency or from a um a broker that um invest on our behalf. And these are sizable ones. The largest in the state of Florida is a state board of administration.
And like I said, it's like a money market account. The money can be pulled at any time, any amount. But one of the the concerns if it's a smaller um LGIP, if I've got a hundred million and the
total of the portfolio for that LGIP is 300 million. If I need a 100 million of it, they might not be able to liquidate all of that at one at one time. They might need to take some time. So I don't want to be the largest fish in the pond.
I want to be around others that are are large. And again, being that with a billion dollar portfolio and it continues to grow, um, this is liquid money that can move in and out. The longer term portfolio, we don't have
to sell it in order to meet payroll or or things like that. Uh, about five years ago, the the county commission approved us to go into what is referred to multi asset classes. um is dealing
with equities. It's taking advantage in the um business world. You know, you invest can invest in equities. Generally, county governments don't invest in equities outside of their
retirement funds, but we we determined and the committee determined and the board approved it is that, hey, we could probably take 10% of our portfolio and put it into longer term instruments and at least be able to stay ahead of
inflation. And so the with the board approving that we've got about 120 million in our MACM portfolio and it's doing a tremendous job. But I don't have to sell any of
that to make payroll to meet our accounts payable. you know those funds. I mean every every quarter when the investment committee meets we also have um the budget office comes and they will
do a presentation on cash flow needs. We try to identify needs like beach nourishment. If you're going to need $10 million next month, I need to be aware of that to say, okay, do we have money available to be able to meet
that that need? So we'll we'll identify those things and make sure yes we have securities maturing or we've got money in our LGIPs that when the market when the bond
market is high oftent times the the LGIPs have a lower lower rate. Um, so we want to move money into the longer term bonds. When the market starts declining,
that's and it stays low for a while. The LGIPs can respond a little bit quicker because they are they're money market accounts. They're going to respond quicker and we can get good yield from those things. That's as far as on the investment side, as far as what we do
with TDC's money and with all departments. Um, I'm going to ask Andrew to come up here and talk about, okay, we get all this money. This last year we earned $63 million in interest
um on our portfolio. Um, last year we earned 50 million. So as the total portfolio increases you know the everybody benefits from it. If I was to invest on say TDC money
separately go to a bank put the money there might be hey this is good but it's just right here I'm taking benefit of the whole marketplace. Um, and if I have to take something out prior to really I
wanted to, I'm going to suffer. But having that pulled concept, we're all together and we get a higher yield. But I'm going to let Andrew talk about how we allocate the interest and how the TDC funds get their interest earnings.
Good afternoon everyone. So the short version is that we we have a a spreadsheet calculation of all of our investments and monthly what we do is we
we calculate our our monthly interest earning and that rate it could be right around right now it's right it's just fallen under 4% it might be about 3.8 or so 3.815 815, but that rate is what we
use monthly to to calculate and appropriate the interest earned. Um, and that's based on the on the cash that is available in the different funds. We have funds in the dep in the county from
fund one to fund 7,999 um excluding 7,000 which is which is um tpo from 1 to 7,000 there's maybe a couple of hundred funds in between there and those funds are they get an
appropriation monthly based on what cash is there at that time get an appropriation of the interest and that that's that's how it is it is calculated from the beginning of the fiscal year from October 1 through the end of the fiscal year and then at the end of the
year we we pretty we calculate the total that we had received from um you know from our investment firm and all the other interests and pretty much just use a a calculation to shore up
what was you know what's what's finalized through the entire year and this this is how TDC C and all the all the other departments get their their precise appropriation of what was collected through the through the year.
TDC for example has um has nine different funds from from 1440 to from 1448 of and those you know get their own appropriations and likewise throughout the rest of the county all of the funds
have you know their appropriation um you know based on based on cash. I'm not sure if there was there was any specific tourism questions that you all had for, you know, for the funds itself.
>> Okay. Questions for um Mark and Andrew. Just Tom, >> I think I'm to blame for the presentation, so I'll go first. Uh Andrew covered it here. So, if it's just arithmetically the interest earned on a
monthly basis split between all the funds based on average balance for the month, that really was the question that I sought a couple months ago and it came out of the review of uh last year's final numbers and next year's budget. And it just struck me because I'm a bit
of an interest hound, you know, in my own businesses. Uh it just struck me that there was a pretty large variation between interest earned on various funds based on my assumed average balances for those funds. You know they varied from
kind of 3% to sub 1% based on the balances. Now that could be because of timing differences as funds are expended uh monies are expended in various funds at a different rate between funds. So out average balances would be different
but like we all know in the last year we should all have been getting you know around 4% in money markets or short-term treasury bills and there was just a big divergence between the interest earned on on balances that I could see in that presentation. But if you're saying that
it's just the total interest taken by all hundreds of funds split by average balance then it is what it is. The answer has to be differences in average balances, >> right? Um, one of the things that we've
we see is a department that might have a greater balance at the beginning of the year >> versus the end of the year, be it positive or negative, that definitely could sway it. >> Sure. Um but during each month we
calculate um here's the average interest rate that is earned on our funds and then at the end of the year we do try to true it up that if there were any gains or losses that are received during during the year
that we factor that based upon the average of all the average months. So we're not just giving all the money to, you know, somebody that has a high balance at the end of the year and at the beginning of the year has a small amount. So we do systematically
I mean do what you're saying is that um we're we're trying to be fair across the board >> um with those funds. >> Great. Thank you so much for your time and explanation. >> You're welcome. I'm glad we could be to to help you all um understand how how
the investments are handled because it is unique for for governments. Um you know you can't quite do the same things that the private sector would do. Um we have statutes that we to adhere to. Um,
I know some governments lately have actually gotten into uh cryptocurrency or getting into to gold or other things and it's like >> talk about risk. >> It's like no, >> let's play it safe. This is public funds.
>> Incredibly volatile. >> Yeah. >> Uh, Peter, I saw you reaching for your light. You have a question, sir. >> Yeah. No, I mean I think you answered it in the in the um detail. I was just curious if you knew of the 38 million
uh for last year was what was the interest um gleaned on that total um then but I'm guessing it would be if it was 3.8% then it'd be 3.8% percent of the 38 million. >> Yeah. During the year, I think we're we
averaged a little over 4%. >> It's around 4%. >> So, >> so 4% of the 38 is we would perfect. >> And again, it could vary by monthto monthth as far as what the cash balance is.
>> Yeah. Another thing if you look at our um in the ACER is that we we do distribute it but it's we have to mark the all of our investments at year end to market value
and that's a tremendous increase or decrease. Um 3 years ago we experienced something that hopefully we won't have to ever deal with again is when interest rates went from down into
the low 50 basis points 30 basis points and then all of a sudden interest rates shot up and it's like the the valuation of our portfolio took a tremendous hit. We had an we actually had a net um loss
on our interest earnings of about 20 million >> but that was paper money that was not actual reality. We didn't lose I mean 20 million in interest that was just book value. Um in subsequent years it's come
back. So, we've not only recouped, but we've got tremendous gains because of longerterm rates. And now, as interest rates start to decline, all the purchases that we've made at higher rates, the value is going to be really
tremendous. And that's where the advantage of having a a company investment advisor to be able to come in and help us manage that long term to say, "Hey, let's let's sell this and invest out, you know, maybe a little bit
longer and we don't have to use those funds to meet again the the daily requirements." Um, so we're very appreciative of what our investment advisor does to to assist with the county's investments. Um, any other
questions? >> Any other questions for Mark or Andrew? >> Thank you very much for uh coming here today. We we greatly appreciate it. Thank you for having >> And Mark, I think you already retired once before, didn't you?
>> I was very close to it. >> Oh, okay. All right. They they changed the law to allow me to stay. >> I see. Okay. >> For an extra three years, so I took advantage of that. >> That was your investment? Another three years and dropped. Okay. I got you.
>> We we understand now. Okay. >> Very good. All right. Peter. >> Yes, sir. Okay. So, um on page 10, uh we just got uh tourist development tax numbers in this morning. Thank you to Marty and his team uh some of whom are
here today. uh we greatly appreciate it. Um they were working very diligently to to get September's in. Um September came in at 1.6 uh just a little over 1.6 million. Uh we were up uh 1.8%.
Um and more importantly uh what that uh told us is our total for the fiscal year ended up at 25 958 uh million which uh was um significantly
over last year and then also about 400,000 over our highest year which was two years ago. Um so this is officially a record year was a record year last year. Um and uh very uh very excited about
that. Uh we just missed 26 million. That was sort of where we had targeted and thought we were were going to land. Um but we just fell a little short of that. But uh obviously a very good result and um very pleased with that. Anytime you
can you can grow um you know from year to year that's a positive. So, uh, particularly, you know, some of the things that we were hearing throughout the year, um, concerns about business travel, concerns about international travel. Um, you know, we were seeing a
little bit of a softening in, uh, occupancy and I think ADR slipped a little bit. Um, but in spite of all of that, you know, with new inventory, um, we were were able to get across that line and and, uh, be up. So hopefully
that will continue as we go into the next fiscal year. Next on P unless there's any questions on that, I'm going to go to just quickly highlight uh our budget final sort of our final budget report for this for
this group. Um obviously we'll come back in January with with uh numbers for um the new fiscal year, but this is sort of the final report for se ending September. um which was last fiscal year. There's
still on page this is on page 11 and 12. On page 12, there's still a few outstanding items that hadn't posted yet, but most of the major things have posted. Now, you can see uh in the marketing and the first uh page on page
11, 1441 is that fund. Um we landed at um just a little over 13.8 million. Uh we had a budget of 14.96. So that will allow us to carry forward that amount. So there's probably some things that haven't quite reconciled in there, but
we'll we'll be carrying forward about a million dollars, which is uh what we obviously put in the budget. So that's great. Uh we have that and then in all the other funds accordingly, anything that we were under um will be carried forward until the next f next fiscal
year. Um and then those will show up on uh as we go month by month into next year's um budget reports. You'll see you'll see that in there. So other than that, uh any questions on the budget?
And then I just have one more item. >> Any questions for Peter on that? >> Commissioner. >> Uh Mayor Connor. So, I have a question about the capital's facilities fund and the money that was expended for the the flame. >> That's going to be my next topic. So,
yes, sir. I was going to address that in a minute. >> I'll wait then. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I want it back. >> All right, Peter. >> Okay. So, um United States Law Enforcement Foundation received two grants from us um over the last uh four
years. Uh the first grant was for a little over 714,000. I think about 714 a.5,000. Um and then uh two years ago they were granted an additional $5 million for their full basically a full project to build a $50
million expansion. Um the 5 million was awarded a million a year for five years. um the last two years in in year one of that grant they um expended all of the first million this then last year they
uh were reimbursed for about 944,000 so a little short of the million so the total amount that they've received was um just under 2.7 million. uh we were informed uh formally by them that they are not going to be seeking any further
grant reimbursements that that project is not going to move forward any further. Um unfortunately they've um you know they the total project was 50 million. We were you know a portion of that they were not able to collect the
funds that they needed. Um and beyond that it sounds like they're having other financial difficulties. So, um you of course we've immediately suspended any reimbursement payments, anything like that. Um but there were three more years on that $5 million grant. Um that will
just, you know, at this point stop. Um as far as, you know, we've had a number of internal discussions with the county attorney, with the county managers. Um I think uh the next step will be to go to the board of county commissioners, go to the to the to the board and seek um that
uh we take you know the first step which would be to do a an audit um to see you know just to verify although all remember all this was reimbursements. So we were provided um expense reports we
were provided uh canceled checks. So, you know, they the reimbursements were appropriate, but to go back and just do a deeper dig on um everything and just make sure that everything was done uh properly. Um and then further uh
investigate whether, you know, there's any assets that we could potentially, you know, go after. Obviously, if they are, you know, in whatever 501c3's form of bankruptcy is, um, if they do not have any funds in the bank, then obviously it would be difficult to kind
of get, uh, recoup, but, you know, in a perfect world, we would love to get some of those funds back. Uh, since that project never went fully forward. Um, but, you know, that'll remain to be seen. I think it'll be a bit of a process to get to understand what, you
know, what's available, what's not available. So, with that, I mean, I can answer any questions, but right now, I think the next step for us will be in December, we'll go to the board, get permission to do an audit. Um, we'll, you know, figure out who we want would
like to do the audit, uh, for us, possibly the the clerk's office, uh, since they're they're taking over some audit duties for us. Um, so, we'll we'll determine that and then, uh, we'll go from there. and that'll most likely take
take a bit of time to to conduct that. >> So, the county attorney is just looking at this overall right now. Is that kind of a short version for today? >> Yeah, I mean, I think the the county attorney's office has looked at it. Um, and that's the recommendation is to is
to go forward with an audit and that's what we'll seek from the board. See if that's that's what the board would like to do. >> I do have one comment after we do questions. Other questions for Peter on this? I have >> questions, Mr. Comment. >> Go ahead with your comment.
>> Well, I think it's important that like with other projects, and I'll have to go back and look at minutes and notes to see how we got there on this one. Uh, but I know, for example, the aquarium,
the the monies were set aside and held in reserves for when they break ground. And so they're paying all their design and upfront cost out of private donations. And the $15 million that the TDC's committed isn't going to be paid out until they break ground and have a
viable project going. So yeah, this is a big uh hit for a project that isn't going to proceed. And I think we should just keep that in mind as other applicants come forward and we consider capital grant funding requests
that we limit it to um limit the timing to understand when projects are fully funded and certain. >> Um I'm pretty close with you and what I was going to say because I think you and I have learned this over many past
years. Uh I said to Peter just recently that I think for us going forward um we were talking about the design and all these things where you know you don't really have skin in the game until you break ground that maybe we shouldn't
be the first 5 million for something. We ought to be the last 5 million uh for something. And I think if we just took that mindset in in the future, maybe even codify that here, we'd probably be in a better position.
And I agree 100%. With a caveat that it's okay like the train station, you know, Coco TPO came and you know, everybody piled in with a commitment. It's not money spent, you know. So, we necessarily, to your point,
>> we can we can be the first to kick off the fundraising in principle, but not be the first dollars out until the project is fully funded. That means the capital is there, the loans are lined up, and the banks are committed. >> And so, yeah, absolutely.
>> Yeah. The other thing I was going to say is we did um pull out the um capital grant guidelines that applied to uh to that grant or at least the last ye year that we had that program. Obviously, we haven't had it the last two years. And
um you know, there's a number of things that were allowable in that as for reimbursement that I think we will strike out of there. And one of those things is design and engineering because that is usually the very first thing to
happen. And if a project's not going to go forward with construction, that's usually the money they've already spent and then that's where it stops. So I think that's that's something that's a way we can kind of control it as well. um is really just apply it to
construction funding itself, the actual, you know, whatever it is coming out of the ground versus any design or architectural work. So that's, you know, that's one thing. The other is um you know, clawback and other clauses in there. I think, you know, we we can
really tighten that up and uh we're we're looking through that right now. So, and that'll come back here um you know, uh probably in January or February. will come back and you know have a have decide if we want to have a committee review that and if not the TDC
can review it oh sorry >> carry on sir >> no I just had one quick question I don't remember anything like this happening was this is this the first time that something to this dollar amount's happened >> yes okay >> yeah pretty much all all of the projects
that have been awarded um that are are not kicked off yet so the aquarium and the uh Bright Line station are two that you know we're holding dollars for but haven't kicked off yet. But all the other projects that kicked off
previously. So um you know the the amphitheater in Merit Island, you know that's coming out of the ground that's almost completed. That project will be done in January. Um there was, you know, money that was given to the Merit Island Wildlife Refuge for a building that was
built that was fully constructed. Um the Cape Canaveral Lighthouse, they built several um sort of museum components with you know different um uh buildings on the property. Those were built. Those are done. So, you know, yeah, that's
this is the only one that, you know, really started the process and started getting reimbursements and then it didn't happen. We've had a couple of projects that just didn't happen period, but no money was was expended. You know, there was uh in Titusville, there was a
um indoor sports arena when I first started. They had awarded $7 million, but then that project just never went anywhere, so no money was exchanged. And then uh in Palm Bay there was um >> campground. >> It was a campground and that that never went forward. So that nothing was ever
exchanged on that. But um yeah, >> right along that same vein, uh this organization were recipients of previous grants. they were that they had gotten so four years ago they had gotten the 714,000
and then they came back asking for more because they they had a bigger scope that they were trying to to execute. So yeah, they they' gotten two grants from us. >> So they had fulfilled their obligations with the first grant. No, the first grant was to that that was originally
designed to build the um eternal flame that they were going to construct and they they never actually built it because they couldn't get the height variances they needed from the FAA, but they had spent quite a bit on design and and architectural and engineering and
things like that. So, that's that's kind of what I was saying is in the grant guidelines, you know, we should probably eliminate that and not allow that to be a reimbursement. You know, that's to Tom's to Tom's point. So, yes, sir. >> Thank you. >> And what happens to the other dollars
that haven't been reimbursed, the three million or whatever, >> right? So, so there's a million in this year's budget that will be unallocated. So, that'll just go into the, you know, be shifted into the unallocated category. Um, and then next year, same thing will happen. Another another
million. And then this board will get to decide ultimately, you know, um what to recommend to the board as far as, you know, do we do uh future capital project, other capital projects, future capital projects? Um is that money used for other things? Some of some of the
funds in the capital facilities fund have been used to pay for lifeguards for instance, you know, is that going to be something that would would continue? um you know so all of that would come it would come before here and then ultimately be decided by the board.
>> So Pete for for the record I just wanted to stress that the Sacrifice Park had already had design work already squared away and that project was fully completed. >> Yeah, it was. Yes, sir. And it was well done.
>> Mayor Connors. Sir, >> thank you very much. I I know this is this is tough, you know, for our city to to lose something like this that did draw quite a few tourists and um not only that but memorial memorialize our law
enforcement officers, not just locally but nationwide. Um our city also did commit a grant to this project as well. Uh but it was to everybody's point not until construction has begun. So, I think it'd be a good process for us to
implement and and look at. Now, personally, I I hope uh we can still keep some of those capital funds up in Titusville. I know I know everybody's like, where are we going to put this money? But, um you know, I'm sure there's more things coming around the corner. So, >> yeah, I was going to also mention Valley
Air Command was another big project. You know, we gave uh funding for that. That was a big project and they just finished. They just had the grand opening of that facility. So that was another example of a project that got completed. I know I'm probably by myself,
island of one in this thinking, but if you pull the tapes from the the sports arena that never came in Titusville and this uh police hall of fame, um both of those came out of the
mentality of dollars in districts and uh in all the years I've been on the TDC here. I've tried to advocate for the highest rate of return with respect to tourism irrespective of district
and u so as projects come try to be agnostic about where they are and try to use these very limited funds for the best projects with respect to tourism because so the aquariums in D2 uh it's going to have spillover effects for the
whole county the zoo is in D4 you know it was still a phenomenal project continues to be a phenomenal project. So I would hope that as new projects come online we look at them first and foremost the quality and the impact to tourism which is the intent of this and and not
as opposed to you know trying to split the pie based on the five districts. >> And to your point I I completely agree it's about our county as a whole not any particular area. Um, and it was just I just wanted to say don't forget about
Titusville because it seems like both projects have failed deal we talked about we're we're in Titusville. So I just wanted to make sure that that we're still an optimistic uh point of view for for our city. Um but something to be considering of down the road is I know there's a a big push uh it seems like
countywide for um what was it science center? I forget what it's called. Um, and I don't know if that's something that maybe we just want to keep funds available in the capital expenditures or capital improvements for for a rainy day or something maybe bigger down the road.
So, just want to throw that out there. >> I think we all appreciate your position. Uh, so, um, yeah, to your point, I I've advocated for more stuff outside of district 4. I mean, there just isn't a lot of tourism component in the center
part of the county. the UTSA um ended up being a a good alternative use for the Space Coast Stadium when they lost um spring training. That's that's how I explain it to all of my neighbors. They they had a just, you
know, what's the what's the opportunity cost? What's the next best um use for that? And and that's that's been and then the zoo certainly is um it's always busy. I've never been to the zoo when it's when it's not busy, so that's good. Even in my district, it's hard to
it's it's it's hard to spend tourism dollars on on things in district 4. So, I think we all appreciate I hope we do that where the most of the tourism taxes is generated. So, that's that's not lost
on me. Um, other comments on this issue? No. Peter, you have anything else? >> Okay. Um, did we have any public comments? No. Marty, anything else from the clerk
since you're here? >> No update from last. Everything's wonderful. Still have PTSD from the last one? Maybe. May I ask a question? >> I Okay. Uh,
do you get this uh sense that is is there still confusion two months in? I'm sure there is with all the tax collectors with respect to uh remittances going to the tax collector versus the office or has a trans transition been as smooth as you would
have hoped? >> Well, I mean I I think the the the total bears that out that >> can we get point of order, sir. Can we >> Yeah, I think you have to say that to Mike. I'm sorry, Marty. I don't I think the amounts that were collected this month kind of bear out that there's
there wasn't a lot of money left over on that side. There is a slight uh there's going to be a a difference month. I don't know what that's going to be because there is another platform Mr. B&B uh European uh based company out of France
spent a lot of time trying to correspond with them. Didn't have any real contact information with them. Their last VCA was probably like six or seven years ago and only had their emails, but uh they were getting no responses and then out of the blue last week uh they reached
out. Um so we're quickly trying to uh onboard them. Um there was a an issue with their u international business status. They didn't have a you know registered in Delaware fictitious in doing business the state of Florida. So
we are we sent them a notice that they have to comply with that but in in the meantime please send your checks >> uh you know but they're so they are sending those uh they're on the way and we're working on getting it you know electronic transmission abilities for them because obviously sending a check
from Europe it's not really feasible >> they stop stop checks in Europe like 25 years ago. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Sounds like it. >> But uh yeah so there will be some some hiccups obviously. you know, we're still working with our vendor. We're still
trying to kind of bend and mold uh that that program to meet our needs, especially for, you know, on Peter's uh uh sake. Uh you know, the allocation amounts that are coming in, you know, where where they pushed out. My idea was, you know, it's got to be quick and
easy, and I'm hoping that it I can get it so that Peter can just, you know, get online and see what that is at any point during the month. um you know that's gonna that's going to happen. So we're still kind of just working out those bugs on the monthlies and the customer side. So we're doing a lot of work on
the customer side making it easier for them. You know the less hiccups they have the the better off we are. And once we get completed with that and we feel real comfortable with that then we're we're really going to break off and and start you know taking deep dives into the compliance of it and I think that's
where you know the real meat is. So, um, looking forward to getting to that that spot, but you know, we have to make sure that the the monthly is is running smoothly. So, >> y >> um >> I think it's good though. >> And the big VBO and Airbnb, the
agreements that the tax collector had, did they transition to your office as sort of corresponding county departments or are you >> direct? We had Yeah, we had to initiate new VCA agreements with them. Um and and
and we will with Mr. B&B as well, but uh >> it's just going to take a little more time for us to get with get with them. We're going to start speaking on that I think the middle of this week uh when uh Jim Stokes, our attorney's going to be in and we're going to sit down and kind of hash that new VCA out see where we
stand. And um but um I think it' be the good thing is I hopefully it's just kind of status quo. you know, we were just really make wanting to hit those benchmark numbers that Peter was expecting and uh and we did so maybe a little bit better. So, I feel pretty
comfortable with our team uh and the work they did to get that uh get that collected and then we'll start kind of honing our skills on the compliance side and hopefully, you know, kind of increase those returns. On the compliance side, I reviewed, and this is
going to vary by municipality, Cocoa Beach and Cape Canaveral, obviously the majority of short-term rentals in the county, if probably more than half, uh they are, you can actually pull the minutes, they are doing a monthly report on VRBO
compliance or short-term rental compliance. uh and they are after 20 years uh or 15 years getting more aggressive uh in cross referencing available rentals with licenses and
issuing fines and there may be uh I'm sure they'd be happy to share that information since it should be public with respect to as they slowly they have like a a score sheet you know how many more applicants came in and and
registered with the city in the last month. Um, and so that from the compliance side is a source of information to make sure that they're actually collecting bed tax once they're licensed by the city. >> Yes. Yeah. I think with our program, we we really can see them all out there.
Um, and like I said, you know, we're just trying to build that collection side right now, >> but we can see it they're all out there and I can see ways and that's kind of the way it works, right? you get the the program gives you a lot of data and then you got to sit down and see how does this how how can we utilize this to to
drill down and that's what we're going to do but I think we're in a you good good place I think can roll actually has the same program that we do rentalcape >> so uh yeah from from that I think we surely can do that >> and I would if I may raise one more
issue there is uh I participated with the commission when they passed this probably over a decade ago, but there is ordinance, which I'm sure you're aware of, uh, in the county to fine for non-compliance of bed tax
collections. >> I think it's up to $500. I don't know that compliance or a fine has ever been issued by the county for failure to collect bed tax, but it's certainly a tool at the county's disposal. >> Yes. Yep. We're we're well aware and
that's kind of our our roadmap is to uh to give everyone a little bit of time, you know, because it's it's on us to to make sure that we were uh you know, these people have been paying for years that the hotels have been paying, you know, moving right along and then >> no fault of their own. Now they have the
hiccup. Um you know, we really can't, you know, start hitting people with fines without being assured that it wasn't our fault. Um, so, uh, we've given kind of a reprieve until January 1, you know, with with registrations, giving that everybody that opportunity.
We're sending out, uh, you know, everyone that we can see out there that's not registered, even if they're a VRBO or Airbnb. Uh, we're sending out those those kind of compliance letters to to let them know, you know, got a set of three. You know, the first is, hey,
here we are. We know you're there. Hey, you still haven't registered and this is going to be, you know, the problems you're going to run into. And then three is is going to be the actual compliance letter. So, uh, we got to work those things out. But, yeah, long term it I
definitely can see where we can make it strides on, uh, increasing that return. >> Can I say something to your, um, your point about Cocoa Beach um, and and there you have to register. Correct me if I'm wrong. Cocoa Beach um was
preempted by the state uh um because they didn't have an ordinance in place, right? >> They had one ordinance in place >> that was no rentals west of A1A. >> Okay. >> And so had they had a multitude of
restrictions >> plus no rentals, they would have been limited to the restrictions on the books in 2011 and then 2014. But when the state preempted the ability to ban it outright, they ended up with no restrictions. >> Right. Okay. So, ironically.
>> Yeah. So, that's I I understand. And so, I that's why I thought they're they're one of the handful of cities that basically were preempted by the state. And so, their means of enforcement is having to register um and and remit some
kind of fee for an annual registration um to Cocoa Beach. Yep. So, uh it's a short-term rentals by state statute is uh less than six months is a commercial activity. Any commercial activity in any
municipality or county requires a business tax receipt, >> you know, insurance registration. >> Mh. >> And with respect to short-term rentals, you're required a license with the Department of Business Professional Regulation for lodging, a DBPR license, and you're required to have a fire inspection. Mhm.
>> Those are all statutory rules that have always existed. >> The problem has always been enforcement. >> Mhm. >> Uh tax collector unwilling to do compliance. Uh fire marshals overworked and unable to check all fire
safety issues. DBPR leadership unwilling to find people and we had these discussions in Tallahassee unwilling to find people that were doing short-term rentals without a DVPR license
>> to the point of telling their agents do not force compliance. >> Um, and so it's always been a it's always been a compliance issue and through lack of enforcement. I >> we can see in these programs and you can go on VBO
airdna.com and you can literally count you know they list the purple dots >> and there are hundreds in Cape Canaveral and there's last time I looked over 1,600 in Cocoa Beach and you go in and you say just you know what's your number
of business tax receipts BTRs any business has to have a business tax receipt and they're in the low hundreds. >> Mhm. So, it's a massive lack of compliance. >> Um, so I think the cities though are going this direction when they were preempted. Um, and I and I think a
couple others. It's interesting though because that's that's enforcement of, you know, we want you to be registered, do this the right way, etc. because we don't have any kind of code enforcement mechanism that we can do now other than,
you know, you got to have the fire um safety, you know, stuff, etc. So they don't it's not for tourism tax collection though uh because the city doesn't quite have that interest. Uh not their immediate interest. I mean there's
some of these other grants and such. But I don't see any reason why they can't share that with um the clerk. >> Yeah. Since we're going to be >> my staff has uh has called meetings with city Cape Canaveral uh to go meet with
them to see you know >> I think Indian Harbor Beach. >> I think Indian Harbor Beach is also doing a registration >> harbor beach Cape Canaveral they they all have >> I don't know if Indian Atlantic I know they were preempted but I don't know if they're doing a a registration um for
their short-term rentals. So that's interesting uh because I mean they're closest to it. They're they're you know I don't know what the fees are if it's if it's big that they get every year if it's a lot of money. >> I can't believe that you know if they have a program uh it's scraping the
internet. I really can't see that >> they would spend that kind of money if they're they weren't already in the business making money. >> Uh so I would I just always assume that if they had that program they were they were registering short-term rentals as permits. I think it gives them, you know, very, you know, there is very
little room for >> for uh, you know, quality of life problems with VRBOS and >> the like. >> Uh, so I think they were using the permitting >> as kind of that important to know where they were to kind of enforce their
>> sound and and occupancy levels and and that's what the program does. And our program is pretty much set up the same way. That's why when you register, it says you have a permit. We really don't we don't have permits but we have accounts but that's the way the program set up is set up for that kind of
extensive compliance from code to TDC collection all the way through. Senator Mayfield has tried for years to do a very simple one of several items, but the one that's very simple is to require each rental
listing to have its DBPR license number that you can look up and tie to the owner. >> We require that you have when you register an account with us, you have to provide your >> but on the listing on VBO and Airbnb that successfully fought to prevent
that. They'll never do that >> because you should be able to find the owner. Um >> well, if you're going to do that, then you might as well put the address on there. >> Yeah. Yeah. You should put the address on there as well. >> When you go to these platforms, you don't see the address, right? >> Sometimes you don't get the address until the day before.
>> Why, you know, why why should >> Well, there's a reason for that. There there's a reason for that because because you can do elicit short-term rental, okay, in a in a zoning classification that you're not allowed to do it in. And if they put the address, all local governments would be
able to go in there every day and just say, "Okay, give me everything that's that's in this area >> and it would just list all the addresses." And they go, "Okay, this is real easy." And uh except we're not proactive in code enforcement. We can't initiate code enforcement based on that. But I'll tell you what, there are
neighbors out there who know where these things are, and that's how we get code enforcement. They they call and they make a complaint. Well, when you go on Airbnb, it doesn't show you the specific house, but it puts a bubble over like a three house radius, >> some something like that. >> To your point, the cities are doing
various levels of registration and fines. I believe the last round of legislation that did pass either last year or the year before was that it needed to be costneutral. >> So, you can't find them out of existence. uh if it's code enforcement, then you need to actually spend the
money on code enforcement and justify it. >> Um but yeah, Cocoa Beach uh being the epicenter of this has gotten pretty aggressive. >> And uh from a hotel vantage standpoint, you know, and I talk about this all the
time. I spent hundreds of hours back in the teens fighting this from a compliance standpoint and a tax collection standpoint. the tax collection stamp was fixed with the agreement with VBO and Airbnb. The compliance and the cities and the noise
ordinance was not uh I lost my train of thought. Uh but the proliferation of these and it's pretty staggering. Airbnb and VBO if you count the number of listings and there is overlap we
exceeding 9,000. And we don't know what the overlap is because they don't show that. But let's just say you haircut it by a comfortable 30%. You know, call it 6,000 listings. Let's just call it 5,000 listings. >> I was going to say half. >> Let's just do half.
>> There's You can see this on AirDNA. There's 2.2 rooms per listing >> on average. So that's 10,100 rentable rooms. >> In the county, there's 11,000 and change hotel rooms. So 50% of the lodging
supply in Bvard County >> is now short-term rentals >> and that, you know, LA and San Francisco were there, you know, a decade ago and went to a conference a long time ago. I was like, God, hope we never get there and here we are. >> Mhm.
>> And it keeps growing faster than than lodging supply, hotel lodging supply. Now, as a commissioner, certainly I get push back from uh constituents who own a home on a quiet street, and that's not what they bargain for. And it's because
you can list these on an online platform. The address isn't there, and it is hard. It is It's difficult for us to do um enforcement. It always starts with a neighborhood complaints. and it's going to remain that way because the county can't can't uh
initiate uh code enforcement. So, we're we're talking about two different things, but we did this last meeting, too. We did this the last meeting, too. >> To your point when you were talking about, you know, the bubble and and where it is. I mean, we know exactly where the where that listing is. We know
not only the listing, we know where the mailing address, >> the illicit rentals are. We know exactly where they are. If they're if they're on a platform, we know exactly where they are. Not a not a bubble. We know the exact address. Not only that, we know the contact. We know the who owns it. We
know who hosts it. We know on, you know, you're on seven different platforms and we can show you the listings from each one. We can do historically. We can show you back. You know, that's kind of the part the compliance level. if we find them and they're not paying, you know, we're going to go back and that evidence
is you've had, you know, seven years of of listings and here's all the platforms and here's all of your reviews from those platforms. So, we know that you're actively renting. Um, I mean, we have that ability to your point. We Yeah, we did meet with uh I met with uh code
enforcement Billy Prasad last week just offer that you know if they wanted to uh utilize that information. It's countywide license. >> Well, I I think uh I think it's kind of chicken or the egg kind of thing. They get a code enforcement complaint and
then maybe they could come to you and say, "Hey, do you have a lot of um short-term rental information about this?" >> That would be different. I don't I don't think they can come to you >> provide them that information and and and let them do it so I can stay in my lane and you I don't want to get drugged
into you know my job is to collect as much money as I can. >> Yeah. But the being the being proactive part is is the problem. What I'm saying to you is I think they can come to you or any governmental agency and say do you have do you have supporting documents that says that they're renting um here? Yeah.
>> They can do that after the fact after code enforcement. Am I wrong in that Justin? Does that sound right? I know some of the stuff might be um exempt related to the >> to the public. Yeah. >> To the public. Yes. I can't accept them for like public business
>> for for the purpose of collection and enforcement. I have to >> I think it's for I haven't looked at the stat for like official actions or >> Yes. >> I've got one, you know, couple was a couple weeks ago we got a public records request to identify, oh, I want I've got
this address. I want to know if they if they are a short-term rental. They have a lot, you know, they're doing business that I can't provide because it's exempt. Even just acknowledging that they do, it would be a violation. Um, but for
>> I thought the amount would be a violation, not necessarily that we have an account for. >> Well, I mean, if the attorney like my attorney describes and it was actually a good point that just acknowledging that they have one or there is a license short of even saying
yes, here is the license uh that they requested. just acknowledging it would be well because the statute says all account information which acknowledging you have an account is part of the account information. Okay. >> Are there further questions for
>> I have just one. It's kind of for maybe Peter and everybody. Um does our budget for the next few months take into account any lagard in getting um collecting some of the tax on the people that they might not be able to get signed up or
Yeah. So our budget for the next fiscal year is 27 million. it. We didn't really take any, you know, that was the number that was plugged in. So, you know, whatever happens happens. Like, uh, Marty said though, um, September ended up a little higher than our projection,
so that was good. Um, I'll happy to share, you know, as we get our October projection. Happy to share that one as well. And we'll see how we do against projections. But, we use um, you know, we use STR's numbers to to come up with projection numbers. And, um, it's been
pretty close. It's, you know, sometimes it's up up a couple of percent or down a couple of percent, but it's usually within certainly within four or 5% of uh of the total. So, I'm happy to share that if that helps. I just wanted to just curious if the new software growing
pains was going to affect our collections at all, but it sounds like it's just kind of something you're working through. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's about it. the majority we're talking about, you know, compliance and those individual unit owners and you got to keep in mind some
people rent short-term part of the year and other year part of the year they're it's a vacation home and they're here for 6 months. So, but those are on the fringes. You have the hotels, they're all going to collect to the penny and then you have Airbnb and VBO and so as long as they're collecting sales tax and
bed tax on checkout, the county is going to get their check. And so, you know, I would say those random pickups, people unaware or willfully not paying would probably be in the low singledigit
percentage of overall collections. >> A government shutdown is going to have a bigger impact than failure to collect from individual short-term rentals. >> All right. Thanks, Marty. Uh, we'll go into u
>> board reports. Um, Mayor Connor's board report. Sir, >> I just want to say thank you to everybody here and the work that we're doing. Uh, last week I had an opportunity to speak at uh, UCF's space symposium that they were doing out there
representing Bvard County. Uh, I think it's going to be very very exciting to what the future holds, especially given all the things that were talked about that I did not understand. So that was that was pretty cool. So thank you. >> More rockets are more better.
That's all anybody needs to know. Um, Vice Chair Tom, >> uh, the mayor and I were at the state of the port. Um, that presentation, video and slide deck is on the port authorities website. Uh, just tremendous
numbers and growth uh, uh, at the port. They're doing a phenomenal job. Uh, kudos to the the board. And we should mention the loss of Wayne Justice, speaking of the board, uh he just unfortunately passed away. Um
but the staff there from John Murray down and the cruise lines, everything's just kind of firing on all cylinders. So that was a great presentation. Other than that, looking forward to government reopening today.
>> Uh Larry JS, >> nothing too crazy to report. just wanted to, you know, I'm I'm involved in a lot of different things all over the county and uh there just seems to be a lot of positive momentum right now, a lot of good good up uptick to people's um
uh sentiment and really looking forward to a positive 2026 and wishing you all a very happy Thanksgiving. >> Very good. Alex Latros, >> nothing to report, sir. >> Mayor Medina, >> happy Thanksgiving everyone.
Wayne Sword, >> nothing to report. >> Um, Peter, >> uh, just a quick thing. Um, you know, want to thank, uh, Commissioner Felner for his leadership this year. Uh, this is our 10th meeting of the year. Um, we
meet, um, and do a briefing every week before this meeting. So, um, some definitely he invests the time in and I have a little award for him, uh, to present >> and, uh, we'll do a little picture, uh, moment here.
>> Okay. And then I'll I'll finish I'll finish up here. Um, I I always ask this, um, toward the end. How's season? How's season looking? How's your pre-ell? I know you you said it. Uh, the government shutdown. You're glad it's over. Uh but
uh other than that, so between you two gentlemen here, what how are things looking? >> We had a good October. Um but you know, we still continue to suffer without the government spend this year. It'll be about $400,000 in revenue that we're short compared to last year. Um making
it up in other revenue streams. But the um looks good. Our booking window is um 50% of our business doesn't book until 14 days out. So, super hard to tell you what December looks like right now. >> Wow. >> Uh, so is it is it fair to say that 40%
of what walks into your door is is gov mill uh sector >> uh contractors? There's no gov mill anymore. So, >> it's all contractors and other private um commercial. Is it is it so that's mostly PDM? Is are they are they PDM
travelers or >> sometimes they contract the PDM rate but it's not PDM because they're not government but it same rate in a lot of cases. Yes. >> Okay. Curious sir. >> Uh don't have an accounting yet of lost
business. Um but it's you know the last story that Florida today wrote got picked up. So I'm trying not to say anything. I don't want to see my name and then my Google news feed. Government shutdowns are bad for businesses
across the board that do business with the government and it's huge. Economic impact of government paid travel is over $33 billion a year. Uh a large percentage of our demand in Bvard County is from government and government
contractors and and that's bad. As far as for bookings, uh it is uh it's not optimistic. I'm not optimistic. Well, I'm optimistic that this two shall pass, but uh they are uh softer than they otherwise should be at this time of
year for the spring. >> Well, maybe uh to Wayne's point, it'll all book within 14 days. Um well, I wish everyone uh a happy Thanksgiving, Peter. I appre I appreciate in advance whatever it is
that that you got there. So, uh >> All right. All right, everybody. >> Get out of that. The opinions expressed by any member of the public during any period of public comment do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the board of county
commissioners of Bvard County, Florida, Space Coast Government Television, or the program sponsor and are solely those of the presenter. The board of county commissioners of Bvard County, Florida, Space Coast Government Television, and the program sponsor hereby expressly disclaim any and all responsibility or liability for any defamatory or
slanderous statements expressed by any member of the public during any such period. [Music] Hey, hey, hey, hey. [Music] [Music]
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