WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=116y2NaAr4Y

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: 116y2NaAr4Y):
- 00:00:00: Meeting Commences, Flag Salute, Roll Call, And Agenda Overview
- 00:02:00: Application Announcement & Courtesy Review: Pilot Fiber Introduction
- 00:05:29: Board Members Questions Pilot Fiber Representatives
- 00:09:17: Extensive Questioning Continues Regarding Fiber Infrastructure
- 00:14:58: Fiber Network: Clients, Existing Infrastructure, And Enterprises
- 00:20:54: Fiber Installation: Existing Businesses and Future Uses
- 00:26:44: Fiber Installation: Service Access & Fire Suppression
- 00:29:15: Planner and Engineer Review; Expansion Strategy; Coordination
- 00:32:00: New Jersey Expansion and Fiber Route Considerations
- 00:37:25: Application Approval: PSNG Substation Hardening Due to Ida
- 00:38:15: PSNG: Planning Board Testimony and Exhibit Introduction
- 00:44:04: PSNG Planner Introduction: Credentials, Experience and Overview
- 00:47:31: PSNG: Exhibits Showing Hurricane Ida Damage and Impact
- 00:51:29: PSNG: Building Elevation, Safety Protocols, and Equipment.
- 00:58:25: PSNG: Existing Infrastructure, Proposed Upgrades and Landscaping
- 01:06:11: PSNG: Improved Views, New Fences, Tree Removal, Variance Overview
- 01:12:16: Questions for the PSNG Planner Regarding Testimony
- 01:13:14: PSNG - Storm Recovery, Redundancy Plans & Tree Removal
- 01:16:15: Professional Feedback: Clarifications, Landscape and Planning
- 01:21:19: PSNG Testimony on Three Requested Variances.
- 01:29:30: PSNG: Impacts on Town Industries, Economic, Master Plan
- 01:36:17: PSNG: Proximity to Fence from the Property, General Operations
- 01:39:50: Civil Engineer Testimony begins: Educational/Professional Background
- 01:48:19: Civil Engineer: Storm Water Neutral Impact and Characteristics.
- 01:50:51: Stone Grading: Thickness, Use For Grounding & Structure of Buildings
- 01:54:01: Concrete Slab and Lot Coverage Analysis
- 02:02:19: Civil Engineer Testimony: Review Flood History And Protection
- 02:03:31: Board member comments - Hazardous material, Soiling, Water
- 02:07:17: Building Layout: Discussion of Sloping/Grading Issues
- 02:11:12: Emergency Response and Fire Suppression Protocols Discussed
- 02:15:28: Electromagnetic Field Study Needs, Configuration of Equipment
- 02:19:25: Solar Power, Employment, Flood Level, Outage discussion
- 02:26:19: Cyber Terrorists - Security Protocols, Fencing and Walls
- 02:32:02: D Permits and NJ Discussions with Applicant for Approval
- 02:36:27: Additional Questions: New Signage being Proposed in Project?
- 02:37:56: Conditions For Approval: Landscaping and Load Coverage
- 02:38:34: Public Comments: Close. Conditions for Approval. Board Response
- 02:43:55: Motion for Dismissal, New Project Approval!
- 02:45:10: Calendar Items and Library Date. Adjournment


Part: 1

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Bridgewwater and posted on the bulletin board in the municipal building. Please be aware of the public planning board policy for public hearings. No new applications will be heard after 9:30 p.m. and no new testimony will be taken after 10 p.m. Hearing assistance is available upon request. Accommodations

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will be made for individuals with a disability pursuant to the Americans with Disabilities Act or ADA provided the individual with the disability provides 48 hours advanced notice to the planning department secretary before the public meeting. However, if the individual should require special

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equipment or services such as a CART transcriber, 7 days advanced notice excluding weekends and holidays may be necessary. I'd ask that everyone please rise to salute the flag. I >> pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Miss Pro, could have a roll call, please. >> Chairman Vesio, >> I am here. >> Mr. Bonjouro

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>> here. >> Councilwoman Isla. Mr. Papis. Mr. Mora. >> Yes. >> Mr. Wang >> here. >> Miss Sakura. Mr. Banga. >> Here. >> Miss Chardawitch.

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>> Mr. Chowdery. >> Yes. >> Mr. Atkins. Mark Pek, board attorney >> here. >> Bill Burr, board engineer here. >> Katherine Sarmad, board planner here. >> You have a quorum. You can proceed. >> Thank you, Miss Propes. At this moment,

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if there are any members of the public that wish to address address the board and any uh items on the agenda that are not listed on the agenda this evening, please feel free to come forward at this time. Seeing none, moving along. As many of our resolutions are still in pending phase, we're on to our

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application portion of the evening. And I'd like to just make a quick announcement that the application 26-006-PB from Mark Mueller. This is an announcement only that will be carried from 42126 not proceeding tonight. This

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matter will be carried to 7726 with a receipt of proper notice pending. Any other items for attention, Miss Proach? No. >> So, we are not carrying notice for that because >> correct. >> They did not notice for this. Okay. Very

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good. >> Okay. Very good. I'm going to move along and I'm just going to do a little reshuffleling on our agenda this evening. Item number 10, the courtesy review is pilot fiber 26001-PB. I'd like to begin with this this evening. This is for pilot fiber in various locations throughout Bridgewater

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Township. and who is here to represent and make this review and display this review this evening. Please feel free to come forward. >> Thank you very much. >> Uh good evening. My name is Fred Brody. Um I am a government governmental

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affairs consulting consultant for pilot fiber and also uh here is Joe Fone the president of the company and um we are here to explain that uh basically what

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we're looking to do is to extend even though this is not a a hearing and it's only on the courtesy review I think it'd be best if you just be sworn in. >> Oh could you each just raise your right hand? Do you swear that the testimony you're going to give in connection with this proceeding would be the truth and nothing but the truth? >> I do.

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>> Thank you. And again, your name is Fred Brody. >> Fred. B R O D Y. >> Correct. >> Joe Fone. F A S O N E. >> Okay. Now you're clear to proceed. >> Okay. So, yes. So, Pilot Fiber is based

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in uh based in New York. uh they're in the process of building out a network uh from New York through New Jersey and actually it's going to be going into Pennsylvania. So what the company what we're doing is we're building out a fiber backbone which is like you know

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one line of fiber. We're not looking to go all over the municipality with with this fiber uh dark fiber as it's called. um we're just building a backbone that connects the clients of um of of pilot

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um in a in a redundant uh manner. So uh we look to get these rightway agreements. They're required by the owners of the telephone infrastructure, the telephone poles or conduit. um in case you know the road is is one that's

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been redeveloped for any reason there's no telephone poles then there's adequate uh um conduit that that Verizon provides so it's all using existing infrastructure uh we're not digging or anything it's either aerial and that uh

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I was asked to uh provide a document that shows what the infrastructure looks like and it's it's wires on a pole um and in the telecom space. The top part is power then the telecom space and that's where we would be. Um and again

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this agreement is required by the owners of the infrastructure so we can uh negotiate and design a route uh because that's that's how they require it. So >> thank you very much Mr. Broy for that initial review. Any comments from Mr. Pone?

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>> Yeah, I think Fred did a good job of articulating it. You know we serve 3,500 business customers in New York City. We have a lot of interest from businesses in New Jersey. Uh, as Fred mentioned, you know, our right of way in the township is all really on existing rights of way. So, these are PSEG polls,

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Verizon poles, Verizon conduits. Uh, we're not seeking, you know, blanket authority to provide fiber to the home or anything that would be disruptive to the town. It's really uh you know we have subsequent agreements with the county with the state that allow us to do this in state and county right of way but we do have to get the same approval

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from every township. So that's why we're here today. >> Thank you very much Mr. Pone. Does that conclude your testimony and your review? >> Yes. >> Okay. At this point maybe we could open up to the board members here in the day. See if we have any questions. >> Begin on this side.

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>> Um how many customers do you have in Bridgewater? >> Zero today. We don't have authority to operate in Bridgewater today. >> Okay. Um and how you said this is a backbone. So how much traffic can it handle? >> Many terabits per second. You know the

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average cable could have anywhere from 144 to 1728 strands of fiber. Each one is capable of handling thousands of gigabits of traffic. So it's it's a pretty high high number in terms of the fiber capacity. And and how many sites

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do you plan to have to do some work >> in terms of work work? >> Well, I'm looking at this picture and it looks like you got to do something. >> Yep. >> Right. You got to splice into an existing something. So, how many of these I'll call them installs for lack

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of a better word. How many installs do you have to do in Bridgewater? >> It would probably be feasible to say you'd be anywhere between 25,000 and 100,000 linear feet of fiber. And how many poles that attaches to is, you know, they could be 200 feet apart on

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average. So that would give you a pretty good range. 500 poles that we're on. >> I'm just trying to get at um will there be a disruption in traffic while this happens? Will you need a police presence to monitor or do

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whatever? >> That's that's subject to town rules. So if your rules say we need a police presence, we will have a police presence. We pay for that presence. We do a traffic mitigation plan. Uh we also have a work zone mitigation plan, but it depends on the road. So some of those are obviously in in Bridgewater are

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going to be state roads that would be coordinated with state police versus Bridgewater police, etc. >> I'm still trying to understand um how many you mentioned so many feet of fiber optic cable. Um is that what

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you're doing? You're putting in one long fiber optic cable. So, it's only going to be one area, one road that's going to be impacted. >> The cable will probably have to zig and zag as we don't determine exclusively which poles are suitable for our infrastructure. So, Verizon or PSENG

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could say this pole is full, so we need you to swing a right and swing a left. And so, the cable won't necessarily be a straight line, but we will work with them to make as direct of a route as possible. >> It is a sort of a a right field question. If we were to get a um an

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application for say a data center, would they sign up or could they sign up for your service? >> We sell we sell to enterprises. We sell to other telecommunications carriers. We sell to data center providers. Uh we do have a facility on Frontier Road

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already. Um that's not a facility that we own. We rent space in it. That's a pre-existing data center facility that would probably >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, >> any other questions? Mr. Chadri,

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>> oh my goodness, this is a good question for me. >> Let's hear it. >> Thank you. Uh, you mentioned about 144 obviously. How many strengths? It'll be different strands from New York to Pennsylvania or it'll be basically uh standard strengths like a 256 or something.

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>> It'll vary along the route. The average would probably be 864 fibers at any point along the route. and uh 854 it'll be you have big cables then >> about an inch and a quarter it's pretty small >> and so it's all poles are obviously PSNG

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or Verizon or anybody else and these are not designed equally so you're going to analyze all the polls then whether it can hold the winds and the snows and all the things >> it's it's on us to make a proposal and then it's on them to validate whether they agree that the pole can hold the

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weight of the cable >> okay >> it's not a significant amount of weight between the poles because they're only a few hundred feet apart. But if they say this pole needs to be replaced or repaired or it's better off if you go a different direction, >> right? They're the ones who guide us in getting the approval uh to be on the

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right polls that could support the cable >> and splicing and everything else will be done by your teams uh with the supervision of either Verizon or PSNG or who will be the who will be the supervisor of the entire uh fiber layout

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>> once we are given the right of way by the town and then once we're getting the attachment permission from either PSENG or Verizon then our crews would be doing the work and we would have police presence for traffic and safety. Uh and then at the end of the work, Verizon and

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PSEG, they would come out and inspect our work to make sure it was done to their standards on their property. >> And this will be mainly in the aerial no uh digging for any any areas between New York to Pennsylvania. >> Well, some areas might require digging, but there's no digging proposed in the

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town of Bridgewater. Um in Bridgewater, if there's existing conduit that Verizon says we need to use, we'll use their conduit. >> Okay. won't need to be new excavation or restoration for what we're trying to do. >> And what is the road map for how many years of um data that you'll be you are

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planning? 100 years or 50 years? >> It's probably between 20 and 50. 50 on the high end, 20 on the low end. And that's really it depends on how much fiber we place in a given area. So in Bridgewater, if you're doing an 864 count cable, you're closer to 50 years.

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And if you're doing a smaller account cable in let's say Vernon Township and it's 144 fibers maybe that's guaranteed for 20 years but the cost is commensurate with the amount of capacity we need. So if you say in Bridgewater suppose there's a you know like uh

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suppose there's a 10 customers you know I'm sure you'll be happy about that 10 customer needs uh at least six trends of the fiber then you obviously gone out of the 60 already there so do you have a plan for uh that kind of

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access fiber already on within age 60 that's what you're counting about 50 years or so so I there's totally sufficient capacity on that cable and we needed more fiber in the future. >> Uh you know there's various techniques to reuse the existing pole attachments >> right

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>> uh to place new fiber but hopefully we won't have to do that. Uh would you are you also thinking and even though it is not bridge water um using the railway infrastructure for carrying the fiber >> using railway right ofway >> railway infrastructure the railway poles >> it's uh it's tough it's certainly tough

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I mean a lot of people have done that already and so there's not actually a lot of latent right of way available along the the railways so it's something we would consider on a case-byase basis but the design isn't hinging on a railroad providing any sort of rightway

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to us So since your company does the all the fiber do are you also considering WDM technology for using instead of the fiber all the way the uh whenever if the demand exceed >> y so we we use DWDM today across all of

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our network and we operate 300 plus miles that we've built over the last 10 years um you know we serve a thousand commercial office buildings in in New York City so it's a pretty big network and every single one of those uses DWDM so we're not uh we're very fiber efficient I will say we're not trying to

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just say one fiber >> right that's what I was thinking that you will do it if you use it okay uh so basically it will be mostly aerial bridge is mostly aerial um or all of the bridge order distance will be aerial then

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>> yeah I think we can't we can't guarantee it would be entirely aerial what we could say with near certainty is it's all existing infrastructure whether it's conduit or poles that we're not looking to do any digging or restoration of roadways. It's all existing right away. Yeah.

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>> Okay. And would you also give the tap to the um any residents area if they want it? Although I don't know what residents will do it, but uh there's no plan. You only tapping to the enterprise. >> Yeah. So, we don't sell any residential fiber today, but we have a lot of

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customers who do. And so, in the event one of our customers says, you know, we plan to expand to Bridgewater, we're going to get our own subsequent approval from the town. There's probably a way we could sell fiber to them in the future, but that's not that's not really the plan for the network today and we don't do any visit.

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>> But you are interested to do the enterprise if there Okay. >> Thank you very much. >> Anybody else? >> Mr. B, >> thanks uh for doing the courtesy review today. Um I'm sorry. So you said do do

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you have any um clients today in Bridgewater? >> Not for our fiber. uh we have clients on our data center footprint which is on Frontier Road but they use what's called lit services today. So Pyet's presence in that facility is using existing fibers from other carriers. Uh once we

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have approval and obviously township approval is actually phase zero, right? There's tons of work, probably six months plus of work before we could ever get a cable on on a pole from here on out. uh once we actually have a firm route committed then we could start selling to our potential customers but

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nothing today. >> Okay. >> And you said um so on you said there's a data center >> y utilizing fiber kernel >> correct there's tons of fiber going in there today. Y >> okay and then um maybe you guys help me understand a little bit. So I know that

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there's Verizon there's optimum you know uh and you had said that there's this is like a backbone. So is this completely new infrastructure that is kind of being built on top and this is not >> correct. Other than the the telephone

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poles themselves the networks do not touch. So they are you know diverse from each other. If somebody says I want one network that's Verizon and one network that's pilot and I want to guarantee that those two networks are totally separate. That's the diversity that we could offer.

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>> Okay. And when you say fiber, that's fiber optics, similar to similar to cable vision type of >> uh I think cable vision is unique in that a lot of their fiber is we'll call it in the middle of their network and

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not to the customer. Um you know FiOS would be a good example of a network that's all fiber from end to end. But both of those I would call uh consumer products and we operate kind of in a different segment of the market for enterprises which would be Verizon or Crown Castle would be names that you

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know uh light path which used to be affiliated with Optimum you know these are all companies who do true fiber to the business type offerings which is what we would do. So based on the profile of Bridgewwater like what enterprises would you say

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would subscribe to something? >> What's an example of an enterprise? Uh >> in Bridgewater for example. >> Yeah. Qualcomm right here would be a great example of of somebody uh the data center facility which is 365 data centers. Um Johnson and Johnson Ro you

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know any of these uh businesses would be prime candidates for our service. >> And is there a key difference between what drive versus the existing >> speed of the network, customer experience, the fact that we own it all end to end. We do it all with our own

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construction crews. We don't outsource anything in the network design or engineering. Um we're local. A lot of these companies are national presences and you know the the inmarket expertise might be lacking and everything we do is in the New York City metro area. So, um, that's typically how we compete. And a

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lot of the businesses, for example, in Bridgewater, they may already be our customers in New York City in their Manhattan offices. So, it's a natural expansion point as we expand our network as well. and um you've received written approval

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from Verizon, JCPNL with regards to so we have blanket agreements with all three Verizon JCPNL and PNG. Uh the blanket agreements cover the overall terms of the relationship and then those

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agreements say here's the process to apply for each individual poll. So, we haven't applied for polls in Bridgewater, uh, for example, because we don't have the requisite authority from the township to do so. But, as soon as we do, then we'll start applying for those polls. Some will be approved, some

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will be denied, some will be denied with a caveat that you have to help us clean up this poll before you can use it. Uh, and it takes about, you know, 90 to 120 days to get the approvals for each poll. But we do have the requisite agreements with all three today. >> And then regarding um like the township

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point of contact, It's a great question. >> The township point of contact. Well, I've been working with Mike Papis and and his office because uh if I may, the the usual way uh that this has been

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working um is that we approach a municipality. We work in conjunction with the uh business administrator uh the the township attorney uh to to approve the agreement, right? Then once the agreement is approved, that's when

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we can go to the people that own the infrastructure as Joe said, then we negotiate the route that way and then we're responsible to pay for the attorney review, engineer review, and the police safety detail if that's required. So in other words, this

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doesn't cost municipality any >> and I would also just add that you know as a state regulated utility we have the requisite authority with the state and with the county and so the Bridgewater authority is really only for township maintained right ofway. So, if it's

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already in a state rightway or county right ofway, we would be working with them to permit those roads, working with the uh utility owners to permit those poles, and they wouldn't necessarily need township authority. But to the extent we get off a county road and we're on a township road, that's really

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where uh this right of way is is >> we have the agreement with Summers County in place and there's no agreement, so to speak, necessary for the state roads because the state issued our authority. >> Yeah. just unique to Bridgewwater because you have so many state roads in

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your township. Uh so just worth flagging that as well. >> You've been through the BPU. >> Yes. >> You said you have 5 approximately 500 polls that you could foresee. I >> think it's a good estimate. Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> Just a reminder to everyone, this is a courtesy review. So the process will not involve an official approval at the end of this. It's not the board's jurisdiction here to actually approve any application this evening. are here to actually listen uh have provide commentary and ask questions regarding the pilot fiber installation here. Um

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I've got a couple myself here. So when I heard this there was a fiber background I said to myself, okay, we're going to be digging. We're going to need back hose in town. But then when I saw that this is on a poll, understandably it's not a transmission or a pass through. This seems to be an installation that's going to essentially be used for a future use, whether it's data center,

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whether it's small business. Um just a quick understanding. Um you've obviously seen the township map and uh you have an idea of where this is going to be installed. Could you give us kind of like a high level overview? Is this going to be an installation on major corridors or how would this work as far as uh some of the residential

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areas? Are these on major roads, county roads? Where could we foresee the installation of the pilot fiber? >> I think it's going to vary. Uh again, some of some of that is up to us in terms of you know the ideal distance for fiber is as short as possible, right? The longer the fiber mileage uh the more

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signal uh you know the more light you have to send at the the near side to reach the other side, the more risk that the fiber could be broken or damaged by a tree limb or a car hitting a pole etc. So we don't want to be taking a long route uh you know through the township if that's what you know what we're

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proposing. Now, doing that could be, hey, a state route could be the best option, but the the poles on the state route could be the most congested. So, really, it's going to vary by the pole condition, and we don't want to deviate uh as much as possible. We want to again

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travel in that straight line. So, it's hard to say without understanding the conditions of all the poles. But the most recent builds have mostly all gone down 202. That's historical precedent. But the polls now on 202, as you've seen, there's a lot of cables on those poles, right? So the condition is uh questionable I would say as to whether

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or not another cable could be permitted. >> Okay. Are these are going to be single lines that are being installed or is there any plans for redundancy line redundancy or is that something that's going to be considered down the road? >> Down the road I think initially getting one one cable up would be the goal. But uh most customers you know that do want

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fully diverse services where you know you have two diverse paths where those cables never cross. Sometimes they want two separate providers. Sometimes they're saying I would love pilot to do both. And in those cases, we would need a diverse line, but getting getting one pole up would be great.

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>> Okay. And you mentioned already um that you'd be providing services to some of the um existing businesses here in Bridgewater. Uh would you be uh up to providing services to small businesses as well? And when I say small business, I mean 100 employees and and fewer.

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>> Yeah, that's that's a large percentage of our business in New York City. So of the you know 3,500 plus business customers we have I would imagine a good you know almost probably a majority would fall into that 100 or less category. You know any any modern

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business of we'll call it five employees or more might require a dedicated fiber service especially if they're in a large bandwidth environment like architecture post production uh professional services you name it. So you've seen a huge rise in bandwidth requirements where previously these smaller businesses

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wouldn't have been target customers for a company like pilot but over the last five years right the average number of employees has trended down as more bandwidth is needed. you mentioned earlier what was that number of terabytes that could be transmitted on the line >> terabits and it's thousands yeah

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thousands of terabits um which is a a number that if we keep using DWDM which is converging multiple signals onto the same line at different wavelengths that number could theoretically infinitely increase. So >> what does or at what point do you

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achieve maximum saturation on this type of line? How many approximately data centers or businesses would or how many terabits would you have to arrive to before you hit is there an 8020 rule there? At what point do you require upgrading the line? >> It would be a a raw number of strands

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that are sold. Um, you know, that's kind of once you're out of strands, you're out of strands. Uh, a large majority of the strands that we light ourselves where we're providing the electronics, you know, those are going to use DPM. The capacity is virtually infinite,

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right? But if somebody says, um, I'll use a random example, Johnson and Johnson, if they wanted, uh, 12 strands of fiber and I only had 12 strands left on the cable, once I'm out, I will need more strands. But it's not typical for a customer to be buying bulk fiber like

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that. It's typically two fibers at a time or a wavelength on a individual pair, you know, fibers. >> Understood. Slightly along the same lines, so a different question. How what is the service life of the cable? So not regard not talking about capacity at

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this point. What's the actual service life of the cable? At what point would it require replacement or upgrade? At what point? What are we looking at? Yeah. >> So we have I guess anecdotally we have fiber placed in the 80s. Not that we placed but fiber that people have placed in the 80s that's still in service today. Right.

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>> So it's only been 40 years but it's still kicking. Right. So, we could feasibly presume with better fiber, better jackets, better installation, uh, you know, everything we've learned in the last 40 years that today's cables could last longer than 40 years. But that's the historical precedent we have to go off of, right?

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>> Okay. And the last quick question here, is there anything that would prevent you from working with the municipality for any particular cases when it comes to small businesses, any types of installations that need patching into? >> No, we we encourage the collaboration. I think we we have a lot of flexibility

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perhaps where other larger organizations don't. So if there are needs of the township or needs of constituents that are unique that haven't gotten attention from other telecom providers, we're happy to to help in any way we can. >> Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Pone. Any other questions?

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>> Yeah. Um I have a question. How do clients access your service? Do they have to be wired in or there hotspots? How does that work? >> Yep. We would have to extend what's called a drop from the pole to their

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business. So, typically not pictured on this particular poll in our proposal, uh there's what's called a riser that comes off the pole and that goes underground to their office building and we would place a new cable down that riser under their lawn into their office building

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and it's a physical wire. >> So, there are no Bluetooth connections or hotspots that clients can tap into? Nope. They would bring their own Wi-Fi. We would be the wire. They would provide the wireless. >> Um,

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say our um EMS people wanted part of the service, how would you charge them? >> How would we charge them? Uh, typically you would tell us the bandwidth that you would need. Those bandwidth tiers have different pricing from 100 megabit to

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100 gigabits. And then we have a pilot for nonprofits program. So typically they would be eligible for a discount. >> So do people typically ask for a particular line themselves where they control it? Is that normal? Like if you

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know you were setting up an office somewhere and you ordered like a T2 line or something, is that something that you do? >> Uh T2 is a a copper term, but we certainly Yes. If a company says we need a one gigabit line, that's the most

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common. Uh the company typically requests that our team will validate the requirement saying oh you know one gigabit either sounds small or it sounds like uh a lot of bandwidth for your organization. What's driving that need? We always make sure that they get the right service for them. But again the

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same cable can do 100 megabits to 100 gigabits. So, it's really a matter of making sure that the the company or the organization is choosing the right size of line for them. Uh, and I say line, but it's actually the same size cable no matter what. That doesn't change depending on what bandwidth they use.

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And all of the bandwidth can be upgraded or downgraded remotely. So, it's not really a limiting package. >> Just to one last question. Um, the data that goes across it's in packets. Thank you. One one final question, Mr. Chry.

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>> Yes, thank you. Uh would you be needing any repeaters uh within this 300 miles >> because we have the facility on Frontier Road if we ever needed to do any amplification? It would probably be at our existing facility outside of the township.

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>> Okay. Thank you. >> I'd like to hear from our board of professionals. How about from our planner, Miss Sarmment? >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um just so the board's aware, Mr. Brody is exactly right. He contacted the township. Um it got filtered through the land use office. Um he did provide a lot of

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information that clarified um what Pilot Fiber does and what they're seeking to do. Um provided their BPU approval, provided boilerplate right of rights of way use agreements, etc. And and this step is not required. the planning board

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um courtesy review. I had recommended uh based on previous board actions on you know Verizon small cell antennas and things like that that they come for the courtesy review even though it is very different from the Verizon one in that the Verizon was a a poll specific agreement right it was a different um

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technology a different impact right but regardless um this step I thought was important for these good questions in particular because even though this board is not taking action the council is the one who would be entering into the rights of way use agreement um which

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would then allow pilot fiber to utilize and to you know um put the cable in township owned rightaways. So um I think you know I think this discussion was very good. Um I think that any any

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commentary and I think in particular the ones about construction um about traffic about police and safety and traffic control. Those are all things that are going to get put into that rights of way agreement. As they noted, they will pay for those services. They will coordinate. They will be

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required to in order to in in conjunction with that agreement um to abide by those terms. And um again, the township attorney will be the one who will be working on getting that agreement put together. The council will be the one who will authorize ex execution of that. But I think either

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way, it was good that this board I think you all had very good questions um to walk through it. But I just wanted to make you aware of kind of where the process lies and where it's going. Um, and uh, and kind of the history here. So, um, but but again, this is this is a a good step in that you you all got to

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ask questions, but not not necessarily one that was necessary, just just good for transparency and for questions. >> Thank you very much, Miss Sarma. >> Board engineer, Mr. Burr. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, just a couple of quick questions. So, as you guys look to expand into New Jersey, how

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would you describe, I guess, the current state of that expansion? Are is this at the infant stages? Are you already uh through this rightway agreement process with with several of the adjacent towns? Just give us a flavor of where things stand overall. >> Yes. So, we today have not only our

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state authority, I want to say we have six county authorities and 13 other municipalities uh as of today. And in January, uh, we made our first acquisition of an existing cable system that goes from Manhattan under the Hudson River, uh, through Hudson and

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Bergen counties, which, uh, gives us our first 50 miles of that network. Uh, that acquisition will close in a couple of weeks, and, uh, subject to BPU approval, which we don't expect any uh, problems with, but that is the initial leg, right? 50 miles is a significant head

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start into the expansion. And so we will be uh building aggressively off of that network uh kind of southwest and we have basically every municipal consent to start designing and engineering and permitting that that route.

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>> And does that include Bridgewater as far as being part of that initial 50 mile route or is that a next >> No, the 50 fiber miles is mostly concentrated in Weihawk and Jersey City, North Bergen, Sakus, etc. >> Yeah, this is you're just planning for future expansion. Correct.

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>> And do you have other municipalities already agreed to in this in this immediate vicinity or issue? >> You've already met with some other towns in the area. >> Correct. >> And you had mentioned that the final route of the fiber is still to be

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determined based on coordination with whoever owns the various polls, whether it's Verizon, JCPN, and LLPS, PSNG. But do you have um kind of an A to B goal of where you need to get to or where you're where you're coming from to where you need to get through through Bridgewater?

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Can you give us any sense of of where you're trying to run or is that still to be determined? >> Still to be determined, but I think based on our existing presence at 999 Frontier, that would be a stopping point for sure. Um and we would want to stop there and continue going. So, uh that's

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the you know, it's ironically right around the corner from here. So it's that's one easy place where we say we know as we come into the town we'll want to hit frontier on one side and continue past it. Uh but nothing else is necessarily a set in stone rule for the design. Yeah.

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>> And just just to reiterate some of the other questions I heard at this point in time you have no plans to require new pole pole installations um or any underground connections. Your your plan right now is to utilize existing infrastructure. Is that is that the way

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it's it's shaped out in other municipalities or have you run into a snag where all of a sudden you're like shoot we need a dozen new poles and >> if we needed new poles they were replacements in kind where Verizon replaced a pole that was failing and the only reason they knew about it was

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because we went out to survey it and it was going to be replaced in the next 5 years anyway but it was replaced in kind. And last question, are are any of the other municipalities you're working in requiring road opening permits or street opening permits as part of the actual work effort once you get to to

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construction? >> Uh it depends. We've actually, I think, successfully uh navigated away from road opening permits more often than not depending on where the poles are. Uh and because we're not actually doing any excavation and and many of the proposed areas were

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were set pretty far off the right ofway that uh so long as we follow the town's rules and traffic safety plans permits. The road opening permit in particular uh in a lot of townships came with additional engineering review, planning review where it was primarily meant for things that required excavation and not

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for this off the off the roadway type work that was aerial. And but the bottom line is even if >> the road opening permit process isn't the appropriate mechanism, >> you're going to work with the municipality. Yeah. Whatever whatever the rule is finalized, we're going to

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sit down and go through it all because quite often we do have utility work come into town. We're not told about it. It doesn't happen often. It's it's pretty well under control. But occasionally somebody comes in, does work, there's a traffic issue, and and we don't know that it was taking place or we can't

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respond to the appropriate um folks. So, we really need to coordinate the effort and make sure that there aren't going to be traffic impacts, etc. But sounds like you're on top of that and you're going to you're going to work with the town. >> Yeah, I think the the biggest thing in this process, and Fred can attest, is articulating to the various

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municipalities what we're not doing is really important. And so I know there was a comment about uh prior uh board matters with small cells. We do not do any small cells. We are not in the small cell business. We do not want to be in the small cell business. And so Fred can tell you with one municipality we spent

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six months trying to in every way, shape or form disclaim that we are doing small cells. And so uh a lot of it is just yeah making sure we're doing a good job of articulating what is and isn't happening and making sure that is done to the township standards and liking. Mr. >> Stay on the bright side of Congressman

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Papis. >> Perfect. >> Any final commentary from the board? >> Okay. Very good. Mr. McGore, anything? >> No comments. >> Very good. Okay. Well, Mr. Brody, Mr. Fanton, thank you very much for that review. Very

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comprehensive. Thank you for answering the questions, taking the time to come before our board. Thank you for coordinating with our board planner, Miss Sarmmed. and we look forward to uh to seeing the service shortly within Bridgewwater. >> Take care >> and good luck. >> Okay, moving along this evening back to

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item eight, our applications. We have one and that's application 2525 PB for PSNG block 347, lot 101, South Pis Lane. Who is here this evening to represent this applicant?

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And and who are you, sir? >> Um, most of the time I'm Glenn Kez >> from the Weiner Law Group. I've appeared on other applications for public service in the municipality. >> I believe I recall that.

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>> Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, just before we started a few things. We brought a senographer. Okay. >> That'll create the record. So, if you don't want to do minutes, we'll provide a full transcript. However you want to do it, just let us know. You're good. And we'll get you that.

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>> Yeah, I believe that's a definite for the board secretary. >> Now she likes us a little bit, right? >> Yeah. >> Uh second thing is I think everything was in order. We were deemed complete. Uh you got all the information for notice.

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>> Notice looked good. The affidavit look good. >> Thank you very much. And uh in spite of having the whole tabernacle choir from Utah here, uh I have two witnesses tonight on this application. >> Very good.

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>> I have a planner and I have a civil engineer. >> Uh we have tried to pre-mark exhibits. I will give you some brief preliminary comments to try and um make this clearer and more simple. I've

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also had the chance to talk to both of your professionals. We have their reports. Uh we can respond to those reports on an asneeded basis. But I guess what I really should start out by saying is that the application before you is as

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a result of Hurricane Ida. Uh Ida beat up this facility pretty badly. Our feet got wet. our equipment actually got wet and it created a need for us to we

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use the term harden the facility to make sure that that doesn't happen in the future. This facility has been uh in existence since about 1960 in one form or another. Some of the

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equipment actually I was told at dinner tonight is actually old and you might even see it in an antique museum at some point which means that it has certainly outlived its usefulness and it's time for us to replace that. We are in

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essence replacing many of the things on the site. But what we really have to do is elevate it because DP changed their standards as to what level you have to be above mean flood elevation. We are doing that. We had our own standard. It

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happens that our own standard was very similar to what D uh required. But uh ac across the state we've been in a process of trying to harden dry up make sure the feet stayed dry these sites. So we are

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now before you to do that here. This is not expanding the use. I mean we will have additional capabil uh capability but it's not like we're putting a whole new substation in to provide for a whole another neighborhood or something like that. uh previous applications indicated

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and I think Norine would confirm this that we had about 15,000 residential customers along with about 5,000 commercial customers using or working through this facility. The lights

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in this room are because of this facility. The lights at the stadium are because of the facility. The lights at uh the mall Bridgewater Commons are because of this facility. So all we're trying to do is improve it. There's a fence right now around the entire site.

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That fence as a result of some additional requirements is going to be replaced by a new kind of fence that is less uh likely to be intruded upon, I guess, is the best way. The fence does circuit uh encompass the entire site. It

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does, as I was talking to your engineer, uh some of the fence improvements are actually in the steep slopes. That's the only work except for a small thing that uh Norine might talk about. That's the only work that we're doing in the

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steep slopes. The rest of it is all on the existing site. Now, you know, it's funny when you go through life, you try and think of analogies to try and and bring home to everyone what it is that we're doing, why we got dressed up to come here before you. And um

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if I could use this, uh it's the best one I could come up with. Just picture yourself moving in to a home. You're living there now and you look at the kitchen and you say, "Oh my goodness,

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some of the equipment in the kitchen is getting pretty old. The microwave is 30 years old and the refrigerator is x number of years old and the wall oven, oh, the burners don't even light up. And then you have the countertop stove and that's not working so well."

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Essentially, what we are doing is replacing that kitchen equipment on this site. It's a little more complicated than that, but that's the best analogy I could give you, and I'll get personal about it. Uh, that's what we just had to do in the townhouse that my wife and I

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moved into. So, it was pretty easy analogy for me. Uh, that's the application. The site is fully developed. We're improving it. We're going to improve the resiliency. That's it. With that, as an attorney, I should just shut up and get my witnesses

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up here. Uh, so I'll bring uh Norine, who's appeared on a number of occasions before this board and your sister board. So, she'll come up and bring her notes. I would also, while she's coming up,

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note that we did receive all of your uh professionals reports and as I said, we did have a chance to briefly talk with them about it. So Norin, would can we get you sworn in, please? >> You swear that testimony going to give

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in connection with this hearing will be the truth. >> Thank you. Could you uh state and spell your last name? >> My name is N. >> Can she Did you say she can sit? >> Why don't you sit and then you can hop

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up? Keep that one in case you go. >> Good evening. My name is Noren. N O R E N. Last name Morener. M E R A I N. I'm a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey and my license

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is current. My employer is Public Service Electric and Gas Company. The address is 4000 Hadley Road, South Planefield, New Jersey 07080. I've been with PSCG for 28 years and my title is licensing project manager. What

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that means is I'm responsible for securing land use and environmental permits for company facilities. Prior to working with PSENG, I worked 10 years as an environmental planner with a local engineering and environmental

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consulting firm. >> And you're a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey? >> Yes, I am. >> And your license is valid as of tonight? >> Yes, it is. >> And have you been accepted as a licensed professional planner before other boards and accepted as an expert in the field? >> I have. And have they also accepted you

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as knowing a fair amount of what public service electric and gas does based on all the projects that you've done with them in the past? >> Yes, and I've testified before this board before. I was here in 2018 and 2022 for our North Bridge Street

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substation which is on Route 22 and well North Bridge Street which is not very far from here. >> And you're sure it's on North Bridge Street? >> Yes, it is. >> Okay, good. Good. All right. Are you familiar? Any questions on her qualifications? >> Board has no objections to the

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qualifications. >> Are you familiar with the uh development regulations for Bridgewater Township? >> I am. >> And uh this station is located in what zone? >> This station is located in the M2

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general manufacturing zone. That zone allows essential services which public utilities are. >> Okay. And uh what are we requesting tonight? You heard my summary. Did I mess it up too badly? >> Not very badly.

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>> Oh, good. >> You don't know how big a compliment that is from her. >> Officially we have to mark. I'm sorry, Mark. I'll try and watch for you popping your head through the door.

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>> This will be exhibit number one. What I have for you are some photographs taken the night of the storm and immediately there. And we also have this to Anna White over here.

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>> We have pictures to hand out to the board. >> What are these pictures? the same ones on the board. >> Yes. What these photos are. >> All right. Let's let's hold up. Let's get that board up. And we've marked that as white. >> That was a >> right.

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>> Please do. Sure. >> Thank you very much. Did you take these pictures? >> No, I did not. Actually, our substation mechanics took these. >> These do. So, I will explain.

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Hurricane Ida became a tropical storm once it hit New Jersey. That was September 1st and 2nd, 2021. The official name of the storm is remnants of tropical storm.

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So what had happened the night of the storm is we had troubles or union employees who were trying to get inside the station to shelter the night of the storm. They were unable to get into the station. They went into

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lane to the entrance way and there was about 2 feet of water there. What happened is the motorized gate was not opening. So what they had to do was get out of their vehicles and personally go clear the gate of debris and then go in.

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This is the photograph that they took from the driver's seats so you can see how high the water by the photograph. She's pointing to the top left one, which is also the same one on your sheets that we handed out. Go ahead.

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>> Now, I have a personal affinity for this because that same night I was part of a volunteer team with PSENG in the Somerset County OEM office. So, we were monitoring the boards showing what customers were out and what were any

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problems with the station. So, at our station, this Pis Lane substation transformer did not know why at the time, but like everyone in Bridgewater saw the extent of the storm damage in the next couple

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of days. So, going clockwise, I'd like to show you how high the water got at the station houses. You can see water mark on the buildings. In fact, as I continue around, you can see the dirt

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that ended up at the station. And my particular favorite which is kind of in the middle on the left hand side is the condition house dirty water and a floating this is what we experience now certainly

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town is a lot of damage you remember what happeneds essentially were stranded generally in the area from mountain all the way over to North Bridge Street. You

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of course remember the poor lady was at the dealership on Route 22 swept away the storm. You of course know >> Okay, let's go to this building now since this is part of the application. This building is one of the ones that we seek to replace. Is that correct?

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>> That is correct. >> And we're going to elevate it. Is that correct? >> Yes. >> And you talked about troubleshooters. Let's cover them while while we're talking about them. We have troubleshooters that are on this site. When how does that work? >> The troubleshooters are at the station.

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There's one during the day and one during the night. Troubleshooters are union employees who are stationed at the site. What they do is they come into the site, park their personal cars, and take a company bucket truck or company vehicle and go about their day. Their

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shift is a 12hour day, 7 am to 7 pm. So once they're there in the day, once they're there in the night. There are some cases where we have two troubleshooters there during the day and two during the night. What we do is we keep vans and utility trucks parked at

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the station so they can easily go to tasks uh for maintenance. Now, our central division headquarters is located on 472 Weston Canal Road in Franklin, Somerset County, 5 miles south of here.

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But if you're on 287, it's not always a quick journey. So, that's why we do have people here at the station. >> All right. Are those the only people that are at the station? >> Correct. What happens is for most of the equipment, we just have substation

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mechanics come once or twice a week. What they do is they come in a light duty pickup truck or a minivan. They come into the station entrance which is on Polus Lane. They use the card reader and

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an ID badge to come in. They enter the motorized gate, park next to the equipment, do their checks, and then leave. We do have some control houses at the site and there is a bathroom there where there can be just like to go back to the troubleshooters

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troubleshooters building which near as I can tell was built in the late 1960s and I used historic aerials to determine this troubleshooters building is in the far eastern portion of the site. It is

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actually in the floodway of How did this happen? In your application packages, I provided photographs of the station does not look like much of anything, but we all found out during this storm that

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water really has a lot of power. In 2007, Federal Emergency Management Agency designated the floodway of Brook. Lo and behold, our building's in the floodway. It's time and past to get that building

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out of there. In fact, what we are going to do is take out troll houses that are in tan and move things as far away from Brook as possible.

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So we report a reporting building also known as troubleshooters building out of the floodway elsewhere on the site control buildings elsewhere on the site. So what we are doing is rearranging

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existing equipment elevating. Two years after this storm in June of 2023, NJ promulgated rules dictating how to define a flood plan. Lo and behold,

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almost the entire station is now PSG typically do elevate. After Hurricane Sandy, we elevated dozens of our stations above blood.

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This one's in a flood. We're elevating. The other choices were put a wall around it. Well, that's maybe good for us. Maybe not so great the other industrial users down on Polus Lane. Another thing you could do, you could abandon the

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station. This has been here since 1960. Millions of dollars of investment and rateayer money went into this. We're not abandoning it. We're fixing it. We're elevating it and we're moving buildings

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and equipment around to protect it in the future. >> What other buildings are we as long as you got that exhibit up? What other buildings are being raised up? >> Control houses that are here in tan out.

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They're going over here and it'll be one big building. The other things that we're elevating are equipment. We have switch gear that is being elevated and transformers that are being elevated. >> This is to ensure that there is no break

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in service. Although as it happens because we have redundancy there was no break in service but that's not how we operate. Is that correct? >> We managed to dry out the station and what we decided to do after Hurricane Ida is we said how high do we have to

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elevate? So we actually went to the watermark and we said let's try to elevate a foot above that time regulations came by in two years turns out that is the proper elevation. So that's what we're doing. Everything gets

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elevated. The reason this is important is because this facility provides a lot of energy to the surrounding municipality. We have 10,000 plus customers and you don't count them

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as the residential or commercial. They're customers to us. They are served by substation on this facility. Also, this station connects to other

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substations in the area. So we're connecting to North Bridge Street in Bridgewater to Find Substation and Find Avenue in Bridgewater that is going down towards Manville. We're connecting to Brown substation which is

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in Middle Sex Burrow and we're connecting Somerville substation. It's in Somerville 206 South. So the customers we serve the largest ones are pharmaceutical,

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biomemed, and financial companies in Bridgewater as well as a water utility >> and a ball stadium. Let's not forget that. Okay. So, let's let's stay in the bill.

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I'm trying to do this in a little bit of a logical order while responding at the same time to comments that were in your professionals reports. Do we have fire suppression systems in these buildings? How how do we deal with fire on site and how do we how do we discuss things with the fire

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department also? What happens? >> Is it water? >> No, it's not. >> Station has been since the 1960. The station

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inside station absolutely necessary. deize the station or fired into the station. >> Do you have a halon system? >> Do you have a halon system?

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>> Not to my knowledge. >> You said there was fire suppression, not water. >> The fire suppression, as I understand it, is in our control house, and I will leave it to our civil engineer to explain. The answer is it's it's a chemical system.

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>> Yes. >> How many buildings are you going to be moving and what is the exact height you're going to raise them? >> I'll try to explain. That's a piece of equip. 26

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>> outside. >> They're outside in the elements. >> Yes, they are. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> They're outside now and they'll be outside tomorrow, too. Okay. So, it's so far it's two buildings. >> Yes. So when we say

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it's essentially equipment does it matter the the switch. >> All that's going to be raised as well. >> Yes. >> And what's the height of the buildings going to be?

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>> Civil engineer deal with that. There is no restriction utilities at Got a question. >> No mention. >> Oh, okay. >> Thank you, Miss Mar. You can proceed with your original testimony.

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Well, we'll have any other questions answered by the engineer when it comes to the structures. I think at that point it'll be more appropriate. >> I'd also like to explain what we're doing with the exterior. >> We have 85 that surrounds this facility.

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This is what it's made of. This is a nonconductive fiberglass material. Seemed like a great idea decade ago. However, the world has changed. Security standards have changed. So, we instead

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will be using 8 foot high anti- cut anti- climb. This you cannot easily climb existing. You can get fingers in this. This can be cut. No good.

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This is what we're going to use. However, not in the area of Cles Brook is quite interesting. It actually restricts us.

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This is the norththeast corner cuts through diagonally. Brook also has freshwater wetlands associated with it and

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area otherwise we have not touched this area. We had spoken with NJ about this application for this project with NJ told us from the beginning you change

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the fence by Couplesbrook we may not allow that. So we are leaving fiberglass fence right along the frontage with Couples Brook. What we are also going to do to protect transformers and there are

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four transformers currently at the station and we will have four in the future we are putting isolation walls around the transformers. This is to protect the transformers. It also has an added benefits

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into the station. You know that the station is on East Main Street. As you go down, there are some fairly heavy duty uses there. The Somerset Ritan Valley Sewage

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Commission all the way at the end. Also the Somerset County Recycling Facility. right for mention railroad which is also used by New Jersey Transit Valley

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22 to the St. East Main Street East Main Street. We do have one residential town located. will be obscured. I'd like to introduce some more exhibits

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for all of you. >> Yes, please. Sure. >> Very much so. >> As you go down, this is the current entrance to our station. That entrance will remain.

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However, you can see on the bottom proposed view where we have the new and transformer walls. If you compare the two, you'll see that a lot of the equipment is now obscured. I have some more photos for you.

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I need my assistance. being marked as A3. >> This is A3. What's existing is on top. What's proposed is on the bottom. This is if you were on East Main Street looking right into the station. This is

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what you see. What we're also doing >> that's just for the board. That's the fourth sheet in the packet that I handed out. You can see you can see the new >> Can you speak directly into the mic?

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>> You can see the new anti-cut, anti- climb fence, and you can see concrete there. What you also can see is some new landscaping. Our concern was to put landscaping on East Main Street because that's

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generally where people are passing by. So, we thought that's what people would want to see more of, more landscaping. Because, as our plans show, what we're doing is bumping out the front fence of

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our station 260 ft by 13 ft. There is already a >> landing. >> Oh, I'm sorry. 13 feet closer, 260 ft wide. >> Okay. There's already a landscape BM at this facility. We'll be cutting into it.

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We're moving the landscape BM closer to East Main Street. We think this provides a better opportunity for the community because this way views of the station are obscured. >> Now along with that, uh you have a

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landscaping replacement plan. We're willing to provide any funds that are necessary as a result of the landscape alterations that we're making on the site. Is that correct? >> That is correct. Here's another view of

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it. And this will be exhibit A 4. This is if you were looking right at the corner into our station. >> So, if you would compare what have at the top lots of A-frames, lots of equipment. What do you get after this

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improvement? A lot of this is block less clutter for people to see. The last board that I wish to show you will be marked A5. This is showing

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>> that's the second that's the second page of your handout. What this is showing is views of this. >> I apologize. The first page, >> my bad. First page of your handout. >> You just can't get good help these days. >> This is showing what it would look like

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if you were coming up from the sewage treatment plant or the recycling facility. The rails that you see here, these are the Conrail tracks and also the New Jersey transit tracks. If you're looking right into here, what we have

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right now are 17 Land Cypresses that were planted about a decade ago under a previous project. Security standards have changed. Our fence has changed. The world has

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changed. We can no longer have plantings inside the station. This violates section 11 of the National Electric Safety Code. Also, for security, we cannot have these trees here. We propose to take these

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out. Frankly, there's no one who really benefits from these trees. Truck drivers, the county property, I think it's better take these trees out, put them in front of the station. What we can't plant in front of the station, we

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will to the township's tree fund. That way, these will actually benefit someone. >> Well, do we have any other site improvements or site issues that we need to discuss? >> You think you covered them? >> I think I covered

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>> the lighting. The lighting is staying the same. So, that's a nonissue, right? Yes, I can tell you what's in the troubleshooters building if you're interested, but that might be somewhat super. What I'd like to then discuss is the

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types of variances that we need. >> Why don't we take a why don't we take a moment actually and based on testimony given the last 1015 minutes, let's see if there are any questions based on here on now before we move to the variances. Mr. Chairman, >> with that I'll open it up.

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Not yet. This may be a very effort. >> I believe that the 8 foot fence is actually permitted for public utility uses. So it's it's the fence height is treated differently for essential services, public utilities rather than

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the normal fences for commercial and residential properties. You're welcome. >> Anybody else? >> Yeah, let me ask a few questions. Um do you have any uh obviously you'll have to have a disaster recovery plan

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because you know suppose this plant uh when it was basically uh you know almost like a destroyed or not working conditions there's the uh the feed can come from uh what do you call the floor of

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other other uh stations near 287 Seven. >> I'm not sure I understand the question. >> Okay. So obviously you know you probably have made the design for some 100 years flood or 200 years FL or something like that when you were planning proposing

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for the new building or the height. So in case of problem comes in I mean there's obviously IDV Sandy those type of things will happen again. So in that case if this is basically incapacitated then do you have a plan to automatically

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recover from the other stations? >> Yes. What I think you're referring to is do we have a redundant system? Yes we do. In this particular case, this station, the transmission lines come out south of the station and they actually

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connect to Middle Sex County as well as Hillsboro. This station actually is connected to Branchburg switching station in Branchburg on Route 202. It's also connected to the east to Greenbrook

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switching station which is generally at the intersection of Warrenville and Route 22. And we do have redundancy. So if a transformer goes down, another station will pick up the load. Yeah.

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Really good. And the tree that you are removing you are basically putting in front of um station or you are just removing it at all. How many trees? Does only I see only one tree. How many trees you are removing it? >> We have a landscape architect. What we

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are doing is putting nine trees and shrubbery in the front of the station. >> Okay. trees we cannot compensate for it will be the tree flood we have to be very careful with this because we do have

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to answer your question also your professionals say we think you're wrong we think you should put in two more trees we think this is a good plan but if your professionals don't agree Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

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>> Thank you. >> If our professionals have any questions at this point, Miss Sarmat, anything related to the shrubbery or the the tree removal? >> No, I don't I don't have any questions right now. >> Covered most of it. Thank you. >> Great.

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>> May I please, Mr. Burr? Norine, the the exhibit you just went over, A2 through A5, if if I look at A4 and A5, which I think is the main street and Paul Hamus Lane view and then the main street view,

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I know you described the difference between the existing and proposed, but can you just quickly go over it again because they look other than the isolation walls being being superimposed on the proposed, are there any other changes? I feel like you were describing

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landscaping being moved closer, a burm being moved closer. >> Believe it or not, the landscape was >> the landscape BM was required by former township planner Scarlett Doyle, as you

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know, very interested in landscaping. So, we are moving that BM forward. Mostly what you're seeing is the isolation wall and this new fence. And I will defer to our landscape architect who can tell you more about the types of

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trees that we will be planting. >> Are they shown on the >> They are shown on the plan. >> And just just one follow-up question. So the the existing burm is it landscaped now with mature plants. >> So then they'll be removed and then it's going to be moved and replanted.

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>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. And uh your prior testimony was then other than I guess one or two troublemakers, troublemakers, trouble shooters, >> shooters, >> I have a couple trouble makers at home right now. I'm trying to make sure

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they're behaving other than um the one or two troubles that may be on site at I guess 12-h hour intervals. >> Yes. >> Is is this otherwise an unmanned facility? >> Correct. >> It is. And it's all remotely monitored

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and correct. Is there at least one troubleshooter on site at all times or do they bounce from station to station? >> They mostly stay at the station, but they do bounce around as needed. >> And you had mentioned u last question is the motorized gate that failed during

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IDA. There's a mo we may hear this from another witness, but the motorized gate that's proposed as a replacement on this project. How do you prevent those failures on on this this new project? I guess we pray that we don't have a storm like Ida. But this was a problem because

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the transformer had gone out and the provisions we made. We have a we have this gets a little technical but the things that operate and the thing that keeps the the equipment up and going is called a station light and power

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transformer. That's what keeps essentially lights on in buildings and things like that. We even have an emergency generator at the site that powers things up. However, with a catastrophic storm, about 21 in

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of water in the station, >> this is going to happen. >> The plan is to elevate those critical facilities so that hopefully it doesn't happen again. >> Exactly. So, >> thank you. >> Hopefully D has come up with the correct

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numbers that we agree with avoids. >> Use that mic. We have 32 people watching on the live stream. >> My bad. >> I was trying to talk loud and that wasn't good enough. So, I apologize.

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>> Okay. Sorry. >> Thank you. >> Um, >> are there any questions from our public? >> They're my people. If they ask any questions, they'll have to answer to me. >> No questions from the public. that I'll close the public portion of his testimony.

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>> Would you like to proceed with those variances discussion? >> One one quick one I may. >> Okay, let's squeeze it in. Sure. >> Yeah. Um on the the brook, it runs through the property, the cook brook. Um is building a three or four foot wall

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along the top of the brook. Is that viable? >> I don't think if you go to D that's going to be viable because they're not so keen on that. Norin will correct me if I'm wrong, but I work for D and that would be something they wouldn't want. The stuff that we're elevating is basically we're not bringing a whole

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bunch of fill in to do it. We're just elevating the buildings kind of like what you would see at the Jersey Shore where they're putting new houses in and there's nothing much on the on the ground level >> by sure. Okay. No wall. Thank you. >> I had a question regarding the elevation

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as well, but I'm think I'm going to save for the engineer. So, we'll proceed with the variances for now. >> Thank you. We're asking for three major variances. East Main Street, also Polus Lane have

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150 ft front yard setbacks. As I explained, we're trying to get away from Cucklesbrook. Therefore, some of the equipment ends up in the front yard setback of East Main Street and heis

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Lane. Another variance I'm requesting is for maximum improved lot coverage. The ordinance allows 60%. At this second we have 74% which was approved in past applications

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and all those applications and approvals are in your application package. What we are requesting because we're moving the station fence slightly north towards East Main Street, we are asking you to

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allow us to have coverage of 75.5%. Most of this is crushed stone. All the gray you see on the site plan with your application package, that gray, it's all crushed stone.

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Since we cannot fully build out this station because of Cucklesbrook and the environmental constraints, everything here goes on the developable station that we currently have. So those

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are the variances I'm asking for. If you want, I can tell you exactly how close equipment will be >> which is shown on the plan. And we have dimensions >> shown on the plans, right? >> It is shown on the plan and we have dimensions. In fact, I should mention on

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Pis Lane, we are measuring to the new fence, not pieces of equipment, but to the fence and I believe it's 2.6 feet. I can go into more detail if you like and if you would like I can explain the

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variances that we are asking for. So >> you're asking for three major variances. We covered the front yard setback, the improved lot, the maximum improved lot covers. And what was the third one? If you could just >> There's two front yard setbacks. >> Two front yard setback. >> There's one for the East Main Street and then one for Paul Hemis.

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>> For Paul. Okay. >> Yeah. I think just go through the uh the positive and the negative criteria for the variances. >> We doing this under a C1 or a C2? >> All right. Tell me about C1. C1 is for undue hardship from a physical

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feature and also for an extraordinary exceptional situation a specific in this case and its associated environment building is in a floodway.

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We cannot keep it. It has to move. I'm also requesting permission to upgrade the station into a C2 vector which is an opportunity for building and planning that will benefit the community.

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The substation is an inherently beneficial use. Certainly energy is a critical component of everyday living. Now to surrounding properties, but in this case we're trying to res make the

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station more resilient special Obviously safety disaster in the state view of lessening such

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more efficient use of land. Abandoning this station is not worthwhile. not with all the investment that has been made over the years. So it makes sense use what you have

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in the bridge zoning are the same as the municipomic development. diversify the municipal base tax. The provision of the master plan is to encourage the retention of existing

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light industrial and high technology uses with an emphasis on corporate clusters found in the region such as pharmaceutical, biomed research, life science. I had already mentioned that major customers served by this facility

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are pharmaceutical, life science, financial and another public based on going through the analysis based on what we put on the record. No, but that's sometimes you can do it

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that way. But I think there's so much testimony on the record, it almost speaks for itself. >> I'll move this along if that's all right then. >> I would agree. >> I think it's required in the rubble here. >> You meet the positive criteria because the station's an inherently beneficial

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use. As I've said, electricity is essential for a modern way of living. The station security and aesthetics will be improved by newimeare. The improvements will not adversely health, safety or welfare of existing

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residents, surrounding area or alter the character of the neighborhood. The character of the neighborhood stays exactly satisfied because the purpose or intent of the master plan development regulations safe, reliable

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and sufficient supplies are needed to promote all the objectives of the master plan municipal land use. all of the township's planning. There is no adverse public safety or health impact, no substantial public welfare or fiscal or

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visual benefits outweigh any deviations of the zoning. So it's my opin zoning ordinance master plan. >> Any more variance testimony? >> Those are the three variances we need.

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>> Anything else you want to share with the board? >> I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. >> And that's exactly what we're going to ask for at the moment. Thank you, Miss Marina, for that testimony. Very thorough. Any questions, >> Mr. Banga?

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>> For the testimony so far. Uh, so just a couple items. Um, you quoted specifically the master plan. Can you just help me understand the impact of each of those areas? >> Certain township industries

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need electricity. municipal certain resid of Route 206 north of Washington Valley Road also west of country club road that's JCPNL territory most of Bridgewater is PSG

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you need the electricity we're gonna get it to you >> as you mentioned economic benefits tax exempt. So all of our insting station, North Bridge station, substation,

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substation, the utility command center, >> and anything else that she doesn't remember? >> We all pay taxes. No tax exemption for us. Just the one item and well mentioned that um you know

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obviously this location has already had substantial investment primary reason you would abandon but if you did abandon the site what would likely scenario >> I'm certain this would not

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>> this mariner possible. Perhaps the microphone, if you would take a seat, that one might work a little bit better if that one doesn't project enough. >> I'm also not >> Either way, we'll just need to record that audio a little bit better. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I'm also not sure she can speculate on what corporate would do, but for a site of this size at this

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investment, I can't imagine that happening based on the work that I've done, and I've represented them over a hundred times on applications like this. That's fine. >> Uh, with regards to the max improved lot coverage, so you said that's going to be mainly gravel,

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>> correct? >> So, I don't get yelled at. Um, so you said it's going to be primarily gravel. where um h has is there going to be testimony from uh another per you know someone else to talk about where potentially the water

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uh and that will likely >> that's in your whole storm water report but the engineer can certainly address it but it is addressed in the storm water report that was part of this application >> okay I just didn't know that was going to be part of the testimony as well >> we weren't going to spend the time because it's all addressed in the report but we're happy to answer any questions you have sir

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>> okay uh maybe I'll come back to that then uh and just the last item that uh you know I think you had mentioned in exhibit I think this was exhibit A1 is that correct? So uh you had increase the how much exactly did you say that the um

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the elevation was going to increase? You said it was up to this plus another foot or so. >> Yes. So this shows the water mark that was at the station. We first said all right we're going a foot above that. And it turns out that's what NJ's

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regulations specify. And our civil engineer is here to describe all of that for you. >> Okay. And just I'm sorry I missed the I missed your question. We're elevating. You had the line where the water was, right? >> We're going at least a foot above.

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>> Right. No, I I understand that. My question where I was going with this was uh with regards to the fence. So, the fence height was going to be or is currently at what? >> Eight feet. >> And then the new fence will be at >> 8t. >> 8t. Um, so with this elevation increase,

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is there a possibility to increase the the um the height of the fence, I guess, is my question. >> We didn't see a need to elevate the the fence height. We could certainly do that, but the ordinance only allows 8T. >> Okay. Remember, we're not bringing a

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whole bunch of top soil and everything else. It's just the buildings are going up. Think of it on stilts or >> it will be on peers. >> On peers. >> On pier. Okay. All right. That's fair. Thank you. >> Any other questions? >> Did I hear

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on peers? >> Yes. >> What? >> Concrete peers. >> What's on peers? >> The equipment will be elevated on concrete peers.

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So you would be increasing the um you would be decreasing the lot coverage by having an elevated structure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Free flow, right? >> Yes. But there'll still be something on

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the on the ground. >> Trying to get out. is that you have 74% lot coverage, which is a lot. And I know that in Kentucky and West Virginia, you go out in the back haulers, you'll find substations and

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switch gear and eight, you know, 8 10 feet up in the air on steel columns and pedestals, which I'd like to see because we have the water passing underneath any sheet flow water passing underneath being absorbed out of soils.

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I looking at the drawings I saw a lot of concrete slabs. >> I'm just trying to What's happening there? >> I will defer to our civil engineer. But what I'd like to explain is that we >> Okay, >> he's already nodded. Yes, let's go with

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the guy. >> I appreciate that, sir. >> I think we'll have quite a bit of line of questioning regarding the structure and the slab itself when we get to the engineering as well because that's exactly my thoughts. Okay. Does does that conclude your testimony? >> That concludes my testimony.

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>> Okay. Mr. Chadri, any other questions? >> Uh on the 150 ft uh setback, can you just explain in the in uh showing the picture where actually the fence will be coming in or how many fits you u you can just show from the picture itself

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because you need a mic. That's the whole problem is. Go >> go to the big board so everybody can see. >> Which page are you on sir? uh any one of these drawings because the fences are there right so we just wanted to make sure that how how much the fence will be

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coming out from the setback you have a 150 so you are moving the fence towards the street I guess right >> yes and it will be 2.6 six feet from the property line. >> Okay. >> On PES Lane.

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>> Uh 2.6 from the propert. Okay. >> And I'm pointing to Pis Lane. >> Mhm. >> Right here. >> So 2.6 is from the road or from your property line? >> From our property line. >> And how much will be remaining from the

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road to the uh fence? How many feet will be from the road uh edges to the uh fence? >> I am going to let our civil engineer >> use this handy tool to figure that out.

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>> Okay, no problem. Thank you. >> Figure it out later on with other questions. >> Miss Sart, any questions? >> No questions. I just wanted to elaborate that and I don't know if Miss Mariner had had a chance to review but the

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township had undertaken under with its MA comprehensive master plan last year um it was required by state law in doing an updated land use element to um prepare what's called a climate change related hazard vulnerability assessment.

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Um while it didn't talk a lot about resiliency, redundancy and electrical or any kind of utility infrastructure, it did note under the section that relates to the other plans within the comprehensive master plan, including a sewer and water utility uh element that

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the future planning of new infrastructure improvements should seek to avoid areas that are topographically impacted by potential flooding. Utilities that exist or cannot pract practically avoid areas of impacted flooding should incorporate construction techniques that reduce storm water

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intrusion or flooding impacts such as erosion. So I just wanted to make that clear because it is something that is um or what is being proposed is something that is um you know promoted by the township's master plan. Um it identifies

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on all the maps within that element the that this is clearly in a flood hazard area. it identifies um you know the flood hazard elevations etc. So um obviously that is that is a serious impact to the site you saw the evidence

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and so I just wanted to add that that's something that's you know it wasn't specifically thinking of PSNG but it was thinking overall that we have critical infrastructure that make sure people have uh electricity safe drinking water all those things in in in a time of an

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emergency. Thank you. Right on that clarity, Mr. Norman. >> No problem. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Burr. Any questions? >> Um, Mr. Chairman, just a couple of quick ones. Norian, on on the plans, there's, I think, four construction trailers

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shown. Are they for for temporary purposes? >> Can you just describe what they're for and how long >> they'll be on site? >> Generally, we anticipate construction will take about two to three years. At the height of construction, we expect

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about 50 workers on site. They will all be accommodated inside the station. The trailers are for management, the electric crews, the testing and commissioning groups, and the civil crews.

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We rent these trailers. So, we're paying for them each month. We are not going to leave them there forever because we're paying for them. So, they will be removed from the site when construction is complete.

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>> Okay. >> Um the plans show lightning mass, two of them, 85 ft tall, >> correct? >> Are they required? Are you electing to put them in? Um just briefly describe

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what they're for. I'm going to give you the planner's explanation of this, not the electrical engineers explanation, but essentially what the lightning mask does is it provides a cone of protection around the electrical equipment and it

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prevents the equipment from being struck by lightning. So the lightning mask is a protective feature and I believe there are three of them at 85 feet high. Are there lightning? Are there lightning masks on the site now? >> Yes, there are. So, as I explained,

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we're rearranging the equipment. So, as the equipment moves, you need to have the lightning mast to protect it. So, the lightning masks are moving. >> Okay. And last question, just want to touch back on the lot coverage issue.

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So, it was a little bit unclear in in the first review what the proposed lot coverage was going to be. And I understand now the proposal is to increase from 74% existing up to 75 12 which quick math I think we're talking

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probably five or 6,000 square ft of new coverage and I understand most of that is stone. Have you guys taken a look at the plan to see if there's any way to economize that coverage and just get that back down at least to the 74 that you're playing with now and and not

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increasing or exacerbating that pre-existing condition? >> Part of the concern is we have to cover the surface with something. We can't have vegetation in the site. So grass is not a consideration.

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Generally we use crushed stone extensively because it prevents erosion and also it pro provides a good driving surface if we need to access things. Permeable pavers we have had a lot of trouble with that because you have to

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keep them clean. So in the winter when we have to plow the main driveway we're obviously using salt and things like that. It gets in the permeable pavers. >> Yeah. Now they're not really working. So the crushed stone is for erosion control

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and stabilizing the surface of the land. >> Is there a way that vehicular access could be restricted to some of those stone areas? Restricted away from some of those stone areas so that they truly do function as a pvious surface and

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they're not subject to compaction and siltation from vehicles. >> You already do some of that. The main traffic is in through the road that goes across the station, the McAdam driveway. Many areas are not traversed by

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vehicles. So the crush stone doesn't get compacted that much. However, after 60 years of actually 64 years, >> yes, you've got compaction,

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>> right? >> Yeah. Are you suggesting that we might be able to get a credit if we limited circulation? I mean, I I love it, but >> Well, so so Bridgewwater's ordinance is interesting in that there are some types

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of ground cover that are not considered to be lot coverage. So, a residential deck, for example, although it doesn't apply to this, if what's under it is pvious, the deck doesn't count towards lot coverage. >> So, dirt would count. But if I put stone

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under my deck, >> correct, >> I probably have a having impervious coverage. >> There's also there's also an allowance for um instead of wood mulch, if you used river like a riverstone product for landscape beds, that's not considered

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lot coverage. And I suspect that's because it's not subject to the compaction, the loading, etc. that truly would make it coverage. You can argue the stone itself has some imperviousness to it, but that's the way the ordinance is written. So, you know, when I saw the

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75 and a half, I'm just thinking, gosh, is there a way to get that down a percent and a half, eliminate that variance? And that's where my head went is is if we restrict traffic, if it if it's a material that truly functions as pvious material and it's never going to

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be subject to that to that compaction, maybe that's kind of a, you know, a happy medium. Maybe I'm kind of curious since you've brought it all up and since one of the board members brought it up whether or not when my engineer gets up, he's going to be able to say, "Well, you

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know, on 20% of the stuff that we have sitting there, it's only on on pilings or it's only on a little footing, right?" And that there is impervious that we're not taking credit for. Uh so, but I don't know where that I don't want to ask that question yet. >> Fair enough. Fair enough. That's all I

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have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Any members of the public wish to question the witness at this time? Please come now. No members of the public close testimony for this witness. Thank you very much thus far. And uh who's your next witness? >> My next witness is my civil engineer,

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sir. >> Okay. Would you like to bring up Hansen? did. I just want you to raise your hand. More natural stance. Very good. You swear the testimony going to be given connection with this hearing will be the truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Thank you. Could you state and spell

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your name for me? >> My name is Bryce Hansen. Uh, first name Bryce, B R Y, last name Hansen, Han Sen. >> Bryce, by whom are you employed? >> Uh, I am employed by Black & Beach and have been working for BV for over three

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years. Um, it's that's about 2022. >> Okay. What's your educational background, Bryce? >> Um, I obtained a bachelor's and masters of science and civil engineering from the University of Minnesota, Duth. >> Uh, what's your professional background? What do you do to keep yourself busy during the daytime?

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>> I have worked as an engineer in industrial settings since 2018. Um, I practice civil and structural engineering. Um, I currently hold the professional engineers license in New Jersey and in five other states. Um, I also hold the structural engineers license in Illinois and Georgia. Um, my

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experience in recent years has been explicitly focused on substation work. Um but I do have a broad experience in oil terminals, mining facilities, hydraulic structures such as dams, uh rockfall hazard mitigation, utility skills, solar and coastal structures.

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>> What's your what's your current title? >> Um I currently hold the position of senior registered structural engineer and group supervisor at Black & Beach in our Bloomington office. Um in my current position, I manage civil and structural engineers who perform work on substation

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projects. Um I am responsible for quality assurance standards implementation proposals client development and leading the SC the civil structural scopes on projects >> and you're licensed in New Jersey and your license is valid as of tonight. >> That is correct. >> Like to offer him as a licensed civil

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engineer. >> Does the board have any objections to Mr. Hend's qualifications? >> None. Please proceed. >> Okay. You heard all the testimony. You heard all the questions. Where do you want to get started? Uh we we know that you

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designed it. We really talked about preparing stormwater testimony. The board has had a couple of other areas that they want us to explore. You want to start with the storm water, brace? >> Yeah, sure. I um I can definitely do that. Um

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can definitely do that. So the proposed work um in its entirety will have a neutral impact on the storm water within the within the the station and the site. Uh the proposed work will alter the pavement areas in the station slightly and increase the impervious areas within the station um slightly. Uh however, we

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are increasing the station zone thickness and and a fairly significant area um about an acre of the station um which actually leads to an improvement of the storm water characteristics on the site. >> Okay. Can you expound on that? You heard some questions from the board. Is there

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a way that we can improve the situation? Do you have any idea what's going to be under these structures? Is it going to be stone? Is it going to be dirt? Is it going to be Tupperware? I don't know. >> Yeah. So, I would say at this time the the plan would be to put um a clean

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cross station stone underneath the buildings. Um that is pretty typical in this in this situation. Usually, it's about 4 in thick. Um that does a it does a good job for grounding purposes. Um you know protecting the workers and protecting the public on the outsides of the station. Um this stone in these

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areas could be increased to help improve some of these um characteristics such as um infiltration and things like that. >> Let's talk about structures and the fact that we're not completely encasing them. They're going to go up on on what footings. How's it going to work?

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>> Yeah. Yeah, that that is correct. So, there will be a concrete mat that'll be buried some distance below ground um to get below frost um levels. Um and then there will be concrete peers um a mix of round and square depending on where

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they're at uh to support the buildings. Um >> so that's basically a footing for the transformer or the building or whatever, right? >> Yep. And and just to be accurate, there is one um piece of equipment in the northwest corner of the station that will be on a slab. Um and it was

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feasible just the way the grade works out on the site to put that on a slab instead of landed on. >> So that one's on a slab, but the other items that Norine talked about, they're all going to be basic, not basically, they're all going to be on footings. Is that correct?

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>> That that is correct. >> And then we're going to have the stone underneath. >> That is correct. So I guess the question is with the stone underneath and the fact that except for varmints maybe wandering around on them, does that stone give us any credit uh based on

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your deck example for impervious? So that maybe we aren't at 75.5 and maybe we're approaching the 74 or something less. And I don't know what the answer is. I think the buried concrete slab might

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>> the concrete slab there's no qu that one's out of play that one's out of play mark but the other ones seem to only have footings on say the four corners >> footings and then the crush stone >> and and then you got crushed stone underneath that nobody's going to be walking on you know

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but I I don't know whether that makes a difference or whether that could go to some of the positive proofs as to the fact that we are at the uh >> but Just so I'm clear though, so the concrete pad would be for equipment that would be on, but then the pierce with

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the crush stone underneath would be for the two buildings. >> Is there's one piece of equipment in the northwest corner of the site just because the grade is a little bit higher. It'll be on the slot elevated, right? >> And everything else will be on peers just because it is it is further and for

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minimizing the amount of fill that we're bringing onto the site to stay net zero. We would not put that on on a slab. again concrete pad equipment crush stone structure. >> Yes. And there was terminology and testimony regarding buried concrete slab. Could you speak to the testimony

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of buried concrete slab and where that would be? >> Correct. So underneath um the buildings that would have the peers coming out of the ground, there would be a a slab of some sort that would give us enough bearing capacity or you know enough structural support to support the building.

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>> Okay. So that is covered then. >> So that will be basically basically even in the building there'll be concrete slab >> buried and yes

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>> yeah buried but it'll be concrete slab >> to some degree. Correct. Yep. >> And over the concrete slab there will be crust stone and then the peers will come. >> Yeah. So the that slab that I mentioned will be buried at some depth. So there'll be several feet of of soil over

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that and then there'll be stone on top of that. >> Do you have a drawing that we can see that? >> I do not believe that had been provided in the permit um site application. >> Okay. I don't know the the professional

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can actually explain whether that will be covered as a you know the covered ground or within 75% or >> word engineer Mr. Burr. Think some of the questioning right now lies within this buried concrete slab that sounds to contain based on the testimony. Dirt on

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top and some additional CCS on top of that. >> Yeah, it's coverage. That's that's law coverage. Um 4 in of soil on top of a buried concrete slab is not going to allow the water to infiltrate into the ground. So I don't know if that was accounted for in the 75.

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>> Yeah, that's the question. >> If it wasn't, it has to be. And I think um Miss Sarmad may have raised it in her report. I think I may have as well. One of the one of the um revisions plan revisions we'd ask for is for uh an updated table to be provided on the

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plans kind of showing the existing coverage as well as the proposed coverage. But yeah, I mean a buried slab uh if it's not going to be removed, it has to be counted as coverage there. Okay. >> Um >> so that will be considered as a coverage then even though it is underground.

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>> It should be. Yes. Oh, okay. That's probably the reason they have put 75% or 75.5%. >> It's not going to allow water to infiltrate into the ground if there's, you know, buried slab under there. So, I

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think it has to be >> Thank you. That's coverage. >> So, the bottom line is the exercise that we just went through was a nice try, but it didn't help because it left us right where we began. Well, it it >> it was a good it was a good try in that I think you're still in the variance

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condition for coverage. >> What I do appreciate though is that that added stone thickness does provide for some storm water management capability because you have the void space in that in that stone. It it's like a dry well.

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>> You can picture an underground dry well. Now we do um you know concrete tanks with stone on the bottom. The old way of doing it was to big dig a big hole and dump clean stone in it and all the water would fill into that trench. So it it

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essentially um functions as a as a storage as a capture area for that runoff. So you know I I'm pleased with that. Um obviously we'll need to make sure that those areas are maintained. So, we'd ask for an O andM an operations and maintenance manual on the storm

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water system. Uh, and that that should be a condition of of any approval by this board. Um, but yeah, I think it's still still a variance condition. But from a drainage perspective, I'm encouraged to hear about the, you know, the stone areas. Certainly want to make

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sure that they they are kept clear from traffic if we can avoid it. Um, you know, and and and frankly, even even by putting some stone under the elevated buildings, it's still going to have some some pvious nature to it because you're

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not going to have vehicular loading under the buildings. Um, I agree. You wouldn't want to leave it dirt, exposed dirt. I think that's going to be messy. The the stone will help with some erosion control, etc. um and and stone that's not subject to vehicular loading is still going to have

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pviousness to it. So the area under the buildings I'm less concerned with. Uh if there are some areas on site that are going to be stone, I would love I would love to if PSNG could figure out a way to where they're going to be off limits for any vehicles

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in the future. There's got to be some space on this site where they can't possibly envision any future equipment or or or vehicles traversing certain areas. Maybe they can they can keep those off limits and that's going to help as well.

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>> Perhaps provide some demarcation if possible to areas that shouldn't be traversed upon. >> Be creative. But >> it's an awful lot of stone out there and I I can't imagine that they're going to need every square inch of that stone for vehicles in the future. So maybe there's

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there's a way to work with that. >> Interesting idea. >> I'm sorry. There are high higher authorities that we have to check that are not here tonight to see if we can do it. But if we could work >> So would it be a condition be

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appropriate that you work with the board engineer regarding potential means to reduce the law cover? >> Absolutely. Council, >> if if I might add to it, too. I think that there's maybe some other things that we could talk about doing as far as minimizing that concrete slab or burying

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it such that it it improves uh water's ability to infiltrate into the into the earth there. It's appreciated any and all means of potentially reducing the coverage and these these attempts are are very very much appreciated. Absolutely.

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>> We understand since that started the whole project. So >> shame on us if we can't come up with something. >> Okay. Mr. Pek will make that a condition potential means and of approval. Okay. Okay. Okay. Were there any further

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questions regarding the lot coverage at this time? If none, we can continue with the testimony. >> You have other testimony that you want to >> Would you like to talk about flood uh you know, what we're doing to protect the station from flood flood waters, elevations, and such? >> I I think they ought to hear a little bit about that because it is in your

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storm water report that was submitted, but a little bit live up close and personal would be good. >> Yeah. So, I guess, you know, the station out there right now generally has a grade between 45 feet and 46 feet. um above, you know, sea level. Um the NGDP

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climate adjusted flood hazard elevation varies on the site from about 46.2 ft um and 48 ft. Um that observed flood elevation during tropical storm Ida was about 47.7 feet, which I believe that

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Norine loosely testified to earlier. um buildings and structures and critical components are being elevated to an elevation of 49 feet which gives us about a foot of freeboard from those um reference elevations. Um and then as as

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Norin noted in 2023 the NJP updated the definition of a flood plane placing the majority of the site in the flood plane. Um there were some questions earlier um I think maybe about transform elevations and I think there was a question about the gate um the gate operator itself

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would be elevated to that 49 ft elevation so that it would be out of the flood water um with the transformers and like the breakers and such those pieces of equipment the bases themselves aren't necessarily being elevated to 49 ft but the components that cannot get wet would

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be above that 49 foot mark. and the and the control mechanisms and the like for the gate. That's all going to be above the flood elevation. So, we shouldn't have unless it's jammed up by debris or something, we shouldn't have a

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problem with it being nonoperational. Is that >> that is correct? >> What else you got? Um, so, uh, one thing I I just wanted to make note

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of here also in regards to flood is that Black & Beach did perform a net fill calculation on this site to make sure that we're not bringing more uh, material into the site than we're taking out. Um, so basically how that works is we add up everything that we're taking off of the site and then we add up

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everything that we're bringing into the site and we are increasing the volume of flood water storage so it' be above grade to the um to the reference level to make sure that we're not um pushing water into adjacent properties. Um so I

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I say that to say that we are having a negligible impact if not an improvement on impact as far as flood water um is concerned. >> Anything else come into your fertile mind before we turn it to the board for their questions?

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>> Um those are those are the main things that I had in my list that I wanted to >> and that we had talked about I think. >> Yep. >> Okay, Mr. Chairman. >> Very good. We'll open it up for questioning then. Start on this side,

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Mr. McGor. Sure. Why not? >> Question about the soils. Uh, is there any history or knowledge of any transformer oil spills with PCBs? >> I am not aware of anything specific

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though there was an environmental impact statement. I am not sure if it looked into that or not. It's like a 60y old plant and was common use back then. I was wondering how report to it. >> I am not aware of any

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The answer is we have no knowledge of any transformer leaks on the site. >> That was pretty much the question. >> In the process of the elevation, some of the improvements that are taking place, uh will there be any hazardous material uh remediation going on on the site?

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There may be. Um, I'm not certain of any. I'm I'm not aware of any to be honest. >> The answer though is we will have the appropriate professionals with I don't think we're going to need an LSRP, but we'll have the appropriate professionals

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making sure because we got to make sure that we take care of our property because it's our public responsibility, too. And actually, you know, going back to 1960, that's probably it was small. it wasn't doing that much and then we were coming in for continuing approvals. So

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my suspicion is this site while it seems like it's old, I was arguing with them at dinner. This is a relatively newer site that just it started in 1960, but you guys started your development. It's not like we're up in Hudson County or something in Jersey City, you know.

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>> Well, to to Mr. McGor's prior question, what sort of what what types of materials were in use in 1960 for a facility such as this one that perhaps would have to be remediated today? >> Um, I am not knowledgeable enough to

425
02:05:00.880 --> 02:05:16.960
know what may or may not be out there as far as existing um hazardous materials. I, you know, as our attorney said, you know, we'll have the appropriate people out there that'll be looking at these things. um >> we have a duty to report and we we we

426
02:05:16.960 --> 02:05:34.119
can't we can't do it under the cloak of darkness. >> So such that the municipality is alerted when these uh >> I Mr. Chairman I think that's a terrific idea and I suggest that's a condition of the resolution assuming we get an approval. >> Okay.

427
02:05:37.280 --> 02:05:52.960
>> Okay. Moving down the questioning. Mr. Chowry. >> Yeah. Um so that you're basically bringing two new transformer 26 KV and 13 KV. I think >> there there will be one new transformer on the site um permanent. Um there are

428
02:05:52.960 --> 02:06:09.520
two temporary mobile transformers that will be on the site during construction. >> Okay. The new transformer I don't see any issue about any leaking anyway because these are made very ruggedly. So yeah, that's why I ask so there be old

429
02:06:09.520 --> 02:06:26.719
transformer al will be continuing to work. >> Um the other transformers on the site are newer. So there the other ones are not being replaced. The one that is being replaced is a is an older transformer if that answers your question. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Uh also

430
02:06:26.719 --> 02:06:42.880
I wish I would have seen any topological map there because you are putting the 49 ft on the gate main gate in 49 ft and the building is in 49 ft and uh equipment will be in the 49 ft. What will be the in between uh you know spaces will be it will be up and down

431
02:06:42.880 --> 02:07:00.159
and also you know also on your northeast corner there's a flood zone there. So in during the flood um I don't know how you're maintaining the slope that if you can kindly explain or at least show somewhere that you know how the slope will be maintained in entire property.

432
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>> Sure. And in those locations where those items such as the gate operator that will be elevated that would be elevated on a concrete pier. Yeah. >> Or a small u structure for example we wouldn't bring the grade up to match it. So the existing grade on the site is not

433
02:07:17.040 --> 02:07:34.800
changing um from its existing stance. Um there's some minor grading that is occurring but it is not changing how the site drains or uh functions >> but how the cars or person will be going from 49 ft to the in the building again

434
02:07:34.800 --> 02:07:52.320
there is somewhere in between what uh I probably did not understand how it'll be done. Oh, I I apologize. I I maybe understand the question better. So, in these pieces of equipment that that um workers will need to get into, there will be stairs that will get up to them um and small platforms and things like

435
02:07:52.320 --> 02:08:10.000
that. So, where they need to uh get themselves up to 49 ft. There'll be a a few step stair basically. >> Okay. So there will be some some way to go down and that will be overall how many ft elevation will be because uh you know

436
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from the flood zone area in northeast corners >> um the I mean the stairs will be will be you know the standard 7in rise 11inch run you know stair to get up to the building. Um if that answers your question.

437
02:08:26.000 --> 02:08:42.079
>> Not exactly. So the just show me or at least tell me where you are going to do the uh grading from the flood zone in the northeast corner to the main gate or to the building

438
02:08:42.079 --> 02:08:58.960
the new building that you are develop uh making it. >> So the question is it specifically in regard to this building that's in >> no from the northeast corn the flood areas. Yes. from here to just tell us if you consider that 47 or something that

439
02:08:58.960 --> 02:09:14.320
you mentioned then how much the grade will be it is we already know it is a 49 ft on the building new building will be 49 ft so there will be grade there from uh that areas to the new building

440
02:09:14.320 --> 02:09:30.960
>> yeah so all the grade in in all these areas is effectively staying unchanged so these buildings are going to be you know elevated a a few feet above the ground and then access into them will be via stairs. So we we're not changing the grading in these areas.

441
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>> Okay. Okay. So I understand now there is no grading change at all in your locations. You'll be using the stairs or platform either from the front gate or otherwise from the building itself. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you very much.

442
02:09:48.880 --> 02:10:06.079
>> There was a question earlier about fire suppression. and the type of chemical that's used for fire suppression. Is that an appropriate time to ask that question? >> Sure. >> Yeah, I'm more than happy to to answer that question. So, ju just to um be really specific and clear. So, the site

443
02:10:06.079 --> 02:10:22.480
the reporting building trouble troubleshooters building would use fire detection um and that's installed to PSNG standards. Um and the way that would work if there was a fire event that detection would notify PSNG and then PSENG would coordinate that response.

444
02:10:22.480 --> 02:10:36.800
Are >> there fire extinguishers in the building though too? >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. So, there's no chemical suppression on site. It's only available when the fire services arrive. Is that is that what I'm understanding? >> Um I I guess what I what I'm able to say

445
02:10:36.800 --> 02:10:52.880
is that um what I'm knowledgeable on to say is that PSENG would be responsible for coordinating that response to make sure what is being used to suppress that fire is appropriate for what is on fire. >> Okay. >> If that helps. If I could perhaps rephrase the question, are there any

446
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containment units on the site that contain chemicals that are used for fire suppression? >> Not to my knowledge. Unless I'm not to my knowledge. That isn't to say there isn't, but not to my knowledge. >> Okay. >> Okay. Any other question? I'll ask Mr.

447
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Burn a bit. I'll continue on. Any other questions? Uh just to go back to what the chairman was just talking about where you don't have a real fire suppression system. My question is why not? >> Um I guess I will defer that question um

448
02:11:31.360 --> 02:11:49.840
guess to PSNG I guess. Um >> is there a representative perhaps that would like to testify? >> Well, I will find one. >> Okay. come back to that. >> That's a good suggestion. Why don't we continue with the questioning at this stage until uh the expert, the relevant

449
02:11:49.840 --> 02:12:05.040
expert comes up? >> Mr. Buner, did you have any other questions? >> I'm good. >> Okay. Uh so just had a couple of questions here. Um regarding the current equipment installed, do you know the voltage ratings and the capacity levels?

450
02:12:05.040 --> 02:12:20.880
Um voltage ratings um are 230, 69 KV, 26 KV, and 13. Um I do not have the the amperage capacity off the top of my head. >> Okay. Um and regarding the new installs, the transformers, capacitors, switch

451
02:12:20.880 --> 02:12:38.400
gear, uh are those higher or lower in terms of the voltage ratings? >> The voltages, um the the name plate designations are the same as what is what is out there? >> The same. >> Yep. There's no change to the the name plate rating. >> Okay. And then has an electromagnetic

452
02:12:38.400 --> 02:12:53.679
field study been conducted for the proposed new equipment configuration? >> Um I will let uh PSENG speak to that. >> Okay. >> We are not making really any changes um

453
02:12:53.679 --> 02:13:08.400
that would impact that as far as I'm aware. >> Okay. Okay. So, I'll I'll I'll wait to question the PCG representative on the on these questions if you're not unable to ask answer them at this point. >> Any other further questions?

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>> No, just those and a few other ones that follow the EMF. >> Okay. But I can hold. Standard practice is we do not keep fire suppression any longer on site. If something comes up in one of the buildings, they may bring it on to deal

455
02:13:27.679 --> 02:13:46.960
with it, but it's not kept there. >> What's the average response time if there were an issue or an incident that required an electrical fire to be put out? >> What is it? About 10 minutes, five minutes. >> See, we have troubleshooters there. So,

456
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the response time will be faster here than it would be on most others. Uh, and the whole thing is that if it's a transformer fire, we kind of just get out of the way and then they figure out what to do. Uh, people showing up on site may show up

457
02:14:03.440 --> 02:14:20.400
with things, but it's just something that the utility has certain requirements and apparently they're changing at times. >> As you can imagine, it's very top of- mind questioning, especially now with EV vehicles and EV warehousing and batteries and and the amount of time that the destruction that could cause.

458
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So >> understood. >> Right. So if there were any or any testimony at all that could help us determine whether or not you know the response time is within half an hour time frame a few minutes we just >> response time for this site would be what?

459
02:14:35.440 --> 02:14:53.520
>> Our central division >> our central division headquarters is five miles away. >> Okay. >> So as fast as they can get there. I would guess 10 15 minutes. And I believe you included in your earlier testimony that's the one that's located down in

460
02:14:53.520 --> 02:15:09.520
Somerset Franklin. Is that correct? >> Yes. Western Canal Road. >> Okay. >> So it would be just south of this station. >> Okay. So proper protocol would be the troubleshooters would identify the issue or do you have automatic identification of fire in place?

461
02:15:09.520 --> 02:15:28.800
>> We als Yes, we do have remote capabilities to tell what's going on on the site. Okay. >> I would expect response to be about 15 minutes. >> Okay. Thank you for giving your best efforts at answering that question. >> There were also questions about EMF.

462
02:15:28.800 --> 02:15:46.719
>> Yeah. So I don't uh but I don't believe that the engineer is prepared to answer those questions and I'm not sure if there's a >> I'm not sure >> what's what's the EMF issue. >> Never mind. >> Yeah. So just has there been an electromagnetic field study with this new configuration with the capacitors

463
02:15:46.719 --> 02:16:07.599
and the switch gears? Is the output expected to be the same? Is it is expected to be higher? Has there been any study done in this configuration? Has any have we had Kyle King do any study on EMF as a result of the new configure on the configuration on the

464
02:16:07.599 --> 02:16:23.920
>> if it if it helps since I know this subject very well >> I'm sorry >> if it helps uh if you have a transformer specification it should be written their EMI uh index so it is all every equipment has to have that EMI index

465
02:16:23.920 --> 02:16:43.439
every equipment >> okay >> yeah Right. >> So, uh >> well, perhaps uh perhaps you can go back. >> Yes. >> And you know, I don't know if we're going to finish tonight, but if you can come back with the uh with those with

466
02:16:43.439 --> 02:17:00.639
what Mr. Chowry is is asking for. >> We have We didn't bring him tonight because nothing is changing on that. He is here on new applications when we're putting a new site in just to answer public questions but his is answers >> no actually this question is very valid

467
02:17:00.639 --> 02:17:14.719
again sorry >> I'm not I'm not sorry to interrupt question so what will happen is specifically if any worker or employees drive with the electric vehicles near the transformer then it may affect

468
02:17:14.719 --> 02:17:31.519
significantly negatively or at least you know life and death situation will be but nowadays just to let you know that nowadays most of the transformer are protected for this one right so we know it very well but at the same time I think the question is very valid to know about the electromagnetic interference

469
02:17:31.519 --> 02:17:48.319
informations so that at least it's it's for the knowledge purpose as well as the recording purpose it is important to note it >> okay >> and I believe Mr. tragedy. The purpose of his questioning is for safety purposes. >> Yes, exactly. >> Safety purposes mingling with

470
02:17:48.319 --> 02:18:03.519
>> the electrical vehicles on the side. >> Not only electric vector, anybody in you know in fact you and me everybody has a different index of catching out. That's why sometimes you may not have any problem with touching the paper. I do. >> Okay. Um let me ask

471
02:18:03.519 --> 02:18:18.559
>> could we provide some of that documentation to the appropriate parties? >> That was the question I was going to ask Mr. chairman because I think I can provide it. My experts up in Connecticut, but I don't think I don't think this is a hard one for him to

472
02:18:18.559 --> 02:18:35.399
provide to your professionals. If there's a problem, then we can come back. >> We could make that a condition in order to provide the documentation to the necessary professionals. This way, you could at least have a condition of approval that things are met to the proper spec. >> And you got something in the file. I appreciate that. Thank you. >> Okay.

473
02:18:35.439 --> 02:18:52.160
>> Does that satisfy the crest, Mr. Chad? No, no, it's >> No, I think that uh only because I don't believe New Jersey has a uh EMF requirement, but I think for the general public and for rec recording purposes, if there is a configuration change, you know, and there is an output that's

474
02:18:52.160 --> 02:19:08.800
greater, then it's just good for us to be able to to recognize that for future purposes or whatever. >> We can certainly we we as we say in Hudson County, we got a guy. So, we can have Mr. King take a look and respond to your questions. And if it's all right if

475
02:19:08.800 --> 02:19:25.519
uh he can talk directly to your engineer and if necessary one of the board members he'll be happy to answer the questions. >> Great. >> I think that went more. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Uh I may have some few questions but I want to finish it. You have some. >> No.

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>> Okay. We'll segue from the topic with additional questions. >> Okay. No problem. These are may not be directly related to uh the construction or the or at least you know witnesses. Uh you are the utility company. Are you thinking anything about using uh solar

477
02:19:41.760 --> 02:19:58.000
cells either on the parking lot or otherwise on the roof? >> You think those days have come and gone? We're not doing solar souls cells on any facility like this are we? Are we even thinking about it? >> No.

478
02:19:58.000 --> 02:20:14.479
No. We did solar around landfills. I did a whole bunch of them where we we capped landfills with solar panels and everything else but not on facilities like this. >> Okay, no problem. And also with the improvement of the buildings are we increasing the employment uh or

479
02:20:14.479 --> 02:20:31.120
employment will be same as before number of employees. >> I'm sorry I missed it. Are we what? >> What are the number of employees that are going to be on site? >> One troubleshooter. >> Troubleshooters.

480
02:20:31.120 --> 02:20:46.319
>> Two one >> two shifts. >> Two >> two shifts of two and then we have bi-weekly or whatever inspections where somebody comes in and kicks the meter or whatever whatever they do. I don't know.

481
02:20:46.319 --> 02:21:03.600
>> Okay. Even though you are um designing as per the New Jersey D for the flood level 249 ft 1 ft higher than the what flood level was um how many years of this flood plan that you have this is a 100year plan

482
02:21:03.600 --> 02:21:19.680
50 years plan or >> the uh NJP flood hazard elevation is a 100year uh hazard elevation a 100year mean recurrence interval. >> Okay. Also as a service provider company

483
02:21:19.680 --> 02:21:35.600
do you have any KPI that you know I have built a new plant this new plant will be able to provide say 10 years only 3 minutes of outage and like the telecom company always does it and the utility

484
02:21:35.600 --> 02:21:51.680
company actually should have it by the FCC rules. Do you have any KPI yourself? How many minutes of the uh you know way so-called outage you will have at certain number of years 5 years 5 hours

485
02:21:51.680 --> 02:22:11.439
10 years. So we don't believe in >> I say that with a smile but public service takes great pride in trying to avoid the outages and they really really try and do the enhancements and you know this is an example of what I do for

486
02:22:11.439 --> 02:22:28.880
public service. So the answer is we try and avoid all outages with all the redundancy that Norine talked about. Uh the fact is they're all interconnected also. So there are circuits that automatically flip and begin to energize whatever is

487
02:22:28.880 --> 02:22:46.399
down and there's different roots to get the energy to where it's got to be. I mean it can always happen that something bad happens. It it could be just an outage. I mean we had a squirrel get into a substation once.

488
02:22:46.399 --> 02:23:03.040
Squirrel had a really really bad day. Uh, and it it caused some stuff to trip, but they restored it. >> Well, thank you. But I'm not satisfied because last 15 years, Bruter and

489
02:23:03.040 --> 02:23:18.399
everybody in New Jersey have seen lots of outage. >> Uh, no question. >> Other other than that, you know, Sandy and Irene. Okay. So, that's what I'm asking. I'm I'm hoping I think we're all hoping that the DP numbers that we're

490
02:23:18.399 --> 02:23:36.080
now building to will hopefully make things better as we go through whether you believe in global warming or whatever the reason is that we're having all the stuff that you're talking about. I mean, I've been doing this for 40 years and I haven't seen this many hundredyear storms and I

491
02:23:36.080 --> 02:23:52.880
worked for D when I first started. I mean, it's just crazy now. >> I'm done. Thank you, >> Mr. Mr. Chadri and Mr. Bur Mr. Chadri asked a question about the flood plane and uh as such it is with larger establishments such as data centers and especially power generation stations

492
02:23:52.880 --> 02:24:10.560
this correct me if I'm wrong this lies within a 100year flood plane area is that correct? Uh yes. >> Okay. Do we have any information or is there a current rate of change in which that let's say 100 years from now we had or even 30 years from now we had another storm to which the 49 ft elevation of a

493
02:24:10.560 --> 02:24:26.080
lot of the equipment that's being proposed here that this would not be sufficient today in 50 or in 50 years. Well, it it's their best guess. Um, and that's why they've they've changed the rules twice now in the last in the last two years trying to account for the

494
02:24:26.080 --> 02:24:42.640
increase in future storms. But I couldn't sit here with confidence and say by elevating these buildings to 49, elevation 49, there's going to be a 0% chance of of future flood impacts. I don't think anybody could could say that. I don't think anybody thought that

495
02:24:42.640 --> 02:24:59.680
that we'd get, you know, Ida level impacts when it happened, but um it's it I should say more than a best guess. It's their educated guess. They put a lot of time and effort into the science behind it and I think that that's what the state is comfortable with and I

496
02:24:59.680 --> 02:25:15.600
that's frankly what I think we have to go by because those are the permits that they need to obtain from the state. Um certainly going to be be a lot better than it is now. That's for sure. >> I don't know if I answered. >> No, you did. I I appreciate the

497
02:25:15.600 --> 02:25:31.040
applicant's willingness to adhere to the master plan and try to reuse the existing location. I'm just curious at what point, you know, they're already again going up 49 ft for a lot of the equipment. At what point do they at what point, maybe I should ask the applicant, at what point is abandonment truly the

498
02:25:31.040 --> 02:25:47.520
option? What would be too high in order to keep um the power generation in this area, in the station? Um I I guess you know in this testimony I would not be able to give a number as to what that is. That's going to be really complicated. You know we'd have to there would be costs associated with it and

499
02:25:47.520 --> 02:26:03.200
you know weighing the pros and cons of that. Um I will echo what Mr. Burr said in that this is our best guess and this is reflects current engineering standard practice. um you know the climate adjusted flood

500
02:26:03.200 --> 02:26:19.920
elevations are 3 feet higher than the FEMA elevations. So that is is significantly higher. Um so that said this is our you know best crack at that. Um anything beyond that would be speculation on my part. >> Okay.

501
02:26:19.920 --> 02:26:35.200
>> Much appreciated. >> Any questions? Mr. Mr. Po, >> in today's climate with cyber terrorists, um, what has PS&G done to protect the

502
02:26:35.200 --> 02:26:50.560
grid from a cyber terrorist? >> Well, we're here tonight and that's a good example because they you heard about us putting out other walls inside the station, so that helps. You heard

503
02:26:50.560 --> 02:27:05.920
about the new fencing that we're using. They're doing all kinds of things to try and and enhance, >> but you have remote access to the site from somewhere and that means that

504
02:27:05.920 --> 02:27:23.280
somebody could hack that. So, one of the my, you know, one of the big things that we worry about is somebody doing something to the water supply and our power grid. And that's where I'm coming from right now.

505
02:27:23.280 --> 02:27:38.399
>> There's not a whole lot though we can do or that we're implication over, you know, cyber crimes or cyber, you know, this is just the zoning ordinance. And this is >> I understand this, Tony. Yeah, I mean

506
02:27:38.399 --> 02:27:53.600
this is a separate issue. I I'm not allowed to bring it up. >> Well, you you can, but it's not I'm just saying it's not relevant to the site plan variance question. That's all. You know, it's getting farfield from

507
02:27:53.600 --> 02:28:12.800
>> if I wanted to get an answer, where else would I go to get that answer other than PSEG right here tonight? >> Ask the man. I'm not the guy to answer. Okay. Well, I did ask them. >> So, are we talking about cyber as in

508
02:28:12.800 --> 02:28:30.080
electronic, somebody coming into our computer system in central headquarters, or are we talking about we talking about random acts of violence and vandalis terrorists? >> I think what you're seeing based on Norine's testimony is that we are trying

509
02:28:30.080 --> 02:28:44.720
to enhance the site. We're putting additional walls up. I mean, you all heard about the incident out in uh I think it was California where somebody decided to use transformers as target

510
02:28:44.720 --> 02:29:01.600
practice and they were taking shots. We are now putting up walls to try and prevent that. I did a big application by way of example uh up in the Meadowlands where we had a big

511
02:29:01.600 --> 02:29:17.120
facility off the turnpike and we did all kinds of things so that nobody had a clear line of sight to the equipment. We are trying to do that. Again, the fence that's up is

512
02:29:17.120 --> 02:29:33.520
another example and Norine obviously has something to help me. Sir, if you wish to give me your name and contact information, I can have our corporate security department confer with you. Would that be acceptable? >> Thank you.

513
02:29:33.520 --> 02:29:48.640
>> I I think I think Mr. Bjorno's line of question is appropriate in that it is a site plan, but what types of physical features I think he's looking could deter a cyber crime. Uh as far as uh some of the other issues with with cyber hacking, perhaps those are more uh adept

514
02:29:48.640 --> 02:30:05.359
for cyber security protocols that are in place on a business or from the organizational perspective and that's a little bit more isolated to the business. Um so but but from a land use perspective, I I do appreciate the questioning regarding any physical. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. And I I do also, and that's why

515
02:30:05.359 --> 02:30:22.479
I'm emphasizing, for example, this this new fence material that's that's brand new. Uh because they think that this is the way to slow it down. I mean, before it was just was just fence and maybe some barb wire on the top of it. They're

516
02:30:22.479 --> 02:30:39.439
not doing that anymore. And you know, the other side of the coin is uh there are a lot of coins invested in facility. These are incredibly expensive. So they're doing everything that they can to at least protect it. But I think if we get your name, sir,

517
02:30:39.439 --> 02:30:56.479
we'll get a response or put you in touch with the right people. >> Thank you. >> Uh Mr. Chairman, just to follow up what Mr. Von you are saying. Okay. Now I think uh with due respect to you, I think you understood the physical security. The physical security will be

518
02:30:56.479 --> 02:31:12.000
controlled by your security forces as well as the equipment itself how it is designed and manufactured. But main thing is that he was really emphasizing on cyber security whereas because the nowadays every equipment is somehow or

519
02:31:12.000 --> 02:31:29.359
other could be connected remotely. So it is highly likely that you're putting so many millions of dollars of building here but that means mean nothing if you do not have a cyber security plan. Now I am absolutely sure PSNG has it. The question is when you

520
02:31:29.359 --> 02:31:46.560
reply uh Miss Morin kindly make sure that at least cyber security and physical security both are included in his response. I >> we we will do that and I think I think quite frankly that's a good idea. I mean it's just the world gets crazy. How many of you have had credit cards compromised

521
02:31:46.560 --> 02:32:02.399
or hacked or something else when you did nothing wrong as far as you know and yet somebody hacked it. So I get it. We'll get you the information, sir. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate the line of questioning. When you come before this board, you're going to get bombarded with a lot of different questions from a lot of different angles. No

522
02:32:02.399 --> 02:32:19.920
>> complaints. You're doing your job. You're doing your jobs. >> Very good. With that said, any questions from our professionals? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Bryce, the D permits that we've we've talked a lot about, can you just tell the board what

523
02:32:19.920 --> 02:32:36.880
what exactly they include, where uh everything stands in terms of the process, have have permits been applied for? Have you had a preapp meeting with D? And what permits have you applied for? >> Um, I guess as where we exactly sit in those permits, I I will definitely defer

524
02:32:36.880 --> 02:32:51.280
to Norine because she's been the one that's been preparing those. um some time ago we did have a have a meeting with them to kind of discuss the project and and things like that and um as Norine touched on with the part of the fence that we're leaving that was part of that conversation but I'll I'll let

525
02:32:51.280 --> 02:33:07.920
Norine add add to that. >> Thank you Bryce. Yes, I did submit an application to NJD and it's primarily a flood hazard area verification. a copy of it is with your municipal clerk's

526
02:33:07.920 --> 02:33:27.520
office and it was deemed complete earlier this uh sorry in March uh on March 27th I added additional information if you like I can get you the file number

527
02:33:27.520 --> 02:33:43.520
it starts with 1806 I'm sorry I don't remember the rest of it the reviewers ers are Mark Harris and Karen Ashwood. I think I have that right. But the application is at your clerk's

528
02:33:43.520 --> 02:34:00.160
office and there is an engineers report included with it. One of the concerns we had was if you remove that troubleshooters building, does it create create downstream impacts? So, we had Van Clee engineers, specifically Peter

529
02:34:00.160 --> 02:34:15.680
Olman, do a study that demonstrated there would be no downstream impact from taking down the troubleshooters building. But if it's all right with you, uh, may I send you an email tomorrow with the pertinent information? Thank you.

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>> And don't don't go anywhere. Just a just to follow up. So, um, the the concern that was raised about the troubleshooters building, did that come about as a result of preliminary discussions or a pre-application meeting with D? >> When well, after this storm, we then

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decided what we would do with the station and we did have a conference call with NJD about a year ago and explained what we were doing. This was a Zoom call, so obviously you could share drawings. And we showed them our idea of possibly a new fence by Cucklesbrook,

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and they said, "Don't even go there. Do not do that." >> That's what I was going to get at next. So, it was a result of those conversations. Your fence um conversation came up. >> Absolutely. They told us they would not approve a new fence by Cucklesbrook,

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which is why we will leave the existing fence in place. Can I ask you one additional question unrelated to D but something that I think is going to fall under your umbrella, Norian? Um, we talked a little bit about emergency response, fire

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protection at the facility, etc. Um, and it it was made clear that PSENG typically initiates that in connection or in concert with the local emergency responders. Do you guys participate in annual training or training as necessary

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with the local uh fire departments, rescue squads, etc. I am told that we do or >> Okay. >> You would also be amused to know that we have a number of employees who are volunteers on their firefighting squads. >> Uh in fact, I can think of one person in

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Warren Township who's actually on the fire squad. And to your knowledge, is there any change condition as a result of this application that would require you guys to meet with the fire and rescue squads to update them on um new

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firefighting protocols, etc.? >> I believe it is part of our normal standard to do that anyway. >> And if that was incorporated as a condition of approval, you'd have no problem with that. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You are welcome. >> Um just one one followup, Mr. chairman for for Bryce as far as and I hopefully

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you can answer this but as far as signage is concerned any new signage being proposed at this facility >> way your site plan >> yeah so the signage um was I believe shown in the in the drawings that were provided as part of the application um the signage should generally be you know

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similar to what's out there but it's being replaced um with new signage >> and last question in um our engineering report um there was a memo iss issued from the fire official. There was a memo issued from the township sewer utility.

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U Miss Sarmad probably had some some comments in her planning report. Any issues with any of the comments that we've raised where we specifically asked for plan revisions or additional calculations? Are they all something that you can address uh as a condition

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of approval? Yeah, I did my best to work through those um late last week and and myself and my my civil counterpart at PSNG, we did not see any major red flags um as far as things that we wouldn't be able to directly change or work through with you.

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>> Very good. Thank you. >> Just one comment that I one comment that I resonated in me is the fire department is looking for a lock box and public service doesn't do that, but we can certainly work with >> Yeah. No, it's stuff like that. It would be a condition of approval, but

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ultimately that's going to be the next step in satisfying your conditions of approval with the fire officials. Understood. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. >> Thank Thank you, Mr. Bird. >> There any additional questions? Any questions from our members of the public?

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No questions from the public. That'll close the quest the public portion for this witness. Thank you very much for your testimony. Do we have any further witnesses or any further testimony this evening? >> No, sir. I'm all finished. >> Very good. Port attorney, Mr. Peek, have we

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satisfied all conditions that we spoke of this evening? Any requests? >> Scott, even though it's a formality, I have to open it up for public general comment. >> Okay. Any members of the public that wish to comment at this time? Please feel free to come forward. Seeing none, hearing none, that'll close

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the public portion for this meeting. >> So, if you'd like me to review the potential conditions, >> Yes. >> that we discussed. >> Yep. I have and I'm sure I missed a few uh n uh they will work with the board

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professionals regarding landscaping that uh work with the board engineer regarding any potential means to reduce lot coverage. uh provide an EMF report to the board engineer and there are no issues with any of the

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review reports uh except for the lock information that was requested for cyber security but that's that's separate to could be a condition if you want the information if you absolutely want the documentation provided to you >> as a compliance thing or they indicated they were just

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committ I think think we had a condition of approval uh to have documentation on hazardous materials. >> Okay. Documentation on hazardous materials >> and to work with said professionals in

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the municipality or to convey. Yeah, >> that that's all I had. >> And then of course the conditions of general applicability, pay your taxes. es >> paying the escort importantly make sure that escrow is promptly replenished

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>> and to our professional has all the questions in your reports been addressed >> they have been on my end Mr. Chairman thank >> thank you >> yes and I believe the conditions took care of anything that was still open-ended >> thank you Mr. Okay. At this time, what I'll do is I'll

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open it up to any general final commentary. >> I'll start on this side of the day over here. Mr. Bunjou, >> I have no further questions at this time. I think you've done a lot of work in preparation for this and uh I'm happy

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to say that I think you've done a good job, >> Mr. Wang. Uh thank you chairman. Um I think um I uh the presentation is very um prepared and um um I have no objections. Um you

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know I'm in line to approve it. Thank you >> Mr. Mccura. >> I'll start off by saying that the project is very well documented as we will receive these manuals and drawings.

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We do know that the area is subject to tremendous flooding every 10 years and that's of concern to me and everybody else who has public service as a supplier.

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I just hope that your elevations are sufficient for the next uh storm that comes through 10 years from now. your lips to God's ears. >> Mr. Chowry. Uh well first of all the nice

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documentation information that's why oh that's the reason I actually selected to be last because I would like to say that at least you know some of the technical information would have been much more better prepared uh than what

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you have come up with but nevertheless uh effort has been put and hopefully at least we will have an uninterrupted that electricity at our home and at least in Bridgewater. Thank you very much. >> Yeah, I appreciate the um you know the

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efforts and the preparation for today. Uh of course obviously electricity is a benefit as um Ms. Marine had mentioned and and does power quite a few homes and businesses. Um, so I appreciate the um looking at this from a very robust angle

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and and you know ensuring that we can try to um think about the future as it relates to some of these hundred-year floods and and making some of those changes. So appreciate that. Thank you. >> I echo the sentiments that just stated as well and I think the applicant meets

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requirements for the hardships and the C1 and C2 variances. Uh I also appreciate the fact that the applicants also tried to adhere to the master plan by repurposing the structure. to the reestruction non-abandonment. Um it's important to realize that whenever we do have these large storms that the most

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important services are hospitals, critical utilities and data center and data services. So uh this definitely falls within that category. And uh on a last note, this is what my basement looked like during Hurricane Ida. I don't want my power substation to look like this here in the township of

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Bridgewater. So I thank you very much and I would be supporting this application as well. Port attorney Mr. PC will need to have a motion for approval of this application with all conditions satisfied in a minute. >> Yeah, the motion would be uh to well if

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someone chose to make it would be to approve major site plan uh and the three requests of both variances subject to the conditions uh that were previously received. >> Who would like to make that motion? >> I can make that motion. >> That's Mr. Banga and a second. Mr.

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Chowry, Mr. Banjaro. >> Yes. >> Miss Prosp. I have a roll call, please. >> Okay. >> Almost forgot that. >> Call on the roll. >> Yes. >> Yes.

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>> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Keynes. Congratulations. Thank you for your testimony. Mr. Hansen and Miss Marer, very much appreciate it and good luck to you during the project.

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>> Thank you for your time. We appreciate it. >> Thank you. Have a good night. >> You too. Thank you very much. >> Okay, there are no other items on our agenda this evening. However, I will ask Miss Propes for calendar items on the next meeting.

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Next meeting is 519 and it's just a continuation of Wheatsworth. Um, and just as a reminder, we have a special meeting on June 2nd. >> June 2nd, right? >> And that would be offsite at the library.

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I'll be sending out um more information on that. >> Where is the library? >> That's the Somerset. >> Where is the library? on um >> the location of the library.

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>> One vote drive V O GT drug. >> What? >> No, it's an address. >> It's near. >> It's at the public library. >> Near Prince Rogers, I believe. >> Yeah. Off of Prince Rogers. >> It's in the notice.

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>> All right. I think we need to journ. >> Okay. Make a motion for dismissal. adjournment. Mr. Chowry, Mr. Banga second. All in favor? >> I >> thank you. >> Good night. >> Very much. >> All right. Welcome