written notice and electronic notice to the Courier News and the Breeze posting on the website and bulletin board in the municipal building and filing with the township clerk. Roll call, please. >> Councilman Bako >> here. >> Councilwoman Isla.
>> Councilman Kersh. >> Yes. Here. >> Councilman Ring. >> Good evening. Here. >> President Ger >> here. Will everyone stand for the pledge of allegiance. Welcome back, Mayor. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag. the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay. Item number four, minutes for approval, June 25th, 2026. Is there any discussion with respect to the minutes
of from June 25th, 2026? Can I have a motion to approve the minutes? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Township council reports. Councilman Ringan, I'll start with you this time.
>> All right. Thank you. I apologize. I meant to bring a prop with me tonight and I forgot. But I know at our last meeting we talked about the I use the term newspaper extremely loosely that uh are placed at the end of driveways
whether you want one or not. Um I received one yesterday and two things of it there there's no news whatsoever and it is purely a plastic bag of ads for various vendors but I did call the phone number on the bag. It's interesting. It
the phone doesn't the bag doesn't say if you wish to opt out. It says, "If you're missing any ads, please call this number." So, I did call 1 800 376-6222 today. I was on hold for about 2 minutes. Got a very pleasant person. In
matter of 30 seconds, she said, "Give it at least a week and it should stop." So, we'll see. I've allegedly opted out of it. But, um, you know, I I agree those things are very annoying. So, um I don't know if anyone from this group is
listening tonight, but um I know we received a copy of a petition from a number of residents relative to some land on Foothill Road that I guess is going to be appearing before one of the land use boards um acknowledging it, but
also uh for residents, please understand situation like this. Uh generally speaking, the township cannot accept a position uh petition especially before a land use because in order for this to be admitted as evidence or or discussed,
the other side has to have the right to cross-examine and they can't cross-examine a piece of paper. So, um, I say that because to the people that signed this petition, if and when this goes before a land use board, highly recommend you go to the land use board
and share your opinions there, um, so they're officially on the record. Um, other than that, um, I have some updates we can do in discussion, I guess, regarding the two potential ordinance chains we discussed
at the last meeting. >> Okay, >> that's my report. Okay, thank you. Um, I will give my report. So, on June 28th, I attended yoga day at the Bridgewater Temple. U, it was a great event. It was really good dancing, food, and hospitality and information about all
the types of yoga for seniors. So, next year, I recommend that to anyone who likes yoga or just wants to be healthier. Um, on July 19th, there will be a health fair at the um, temple in Bridgewater. It's a huge event. anyone who's interested in health issues should
attend. And the Bridgewater RAN High School American Lung Cancer Screening Initiative um students will have a table there to give information about lung um cancer screening. Uh Fourth of July, I attended the Hopkinson flag ceremony at
the Washington Conteonement. Um I'm going to let Councilman Kersh and Councilman um Bucko talk more about that. They were there as well. Um July 17th is a day of remembrance for John Lewis. He died on July 17th um 20uh 20
and he was still in office after serving for 17 years when he died. And for my fun history fact, um on June 5th, I acknowledged that it was Jewish heritage month and I spoke about the um Litzgator family who were very strong Jewish
patriots from Bound Brook, which I think at the time was also part of Bridgewater. And I mentioned a Sergeant Aaron Lutz Bader um from the family who served in the Continental Army and participated in several major
engagements in the area. So this week I get an email from his great great great great great granddaughter fifth fifth gener she she he was it five times great. Um she heard
that I had mentioned his name and is also researching his legacy. So that was really it was just really neat to have. Um that's my report. Council Kersh. >> Thank you madam president. Um uh on the business side, substantial number of
meetings and work has occurred over the last uh couple of weeks as we pledged. We meaning uh Councilman Bucko and myself along with uh Mr. Papis, other members of staff as well as as other expertise and and we'll certainly discuss that at at length in the
appropriate part of the agenda. uh you know, three of us attended uh the the Hopkinson flag uh or I should really better call it the um uh uh Middlebrook encampment uh Fourth of July ceremony. I'm on the board of trustees there. Uh
it it is a a truly unique and and proud uh Bridgewater story. Um, and that's celebrated was celebrated on the 4th of July despite the heat um with the uh lowering of essentially last year's Hopkinson flag, the raising of a new what we'll call this year's Hopkinson
flag and the reading of the Declaration of Independence. Um, you know, my very brief commentary is that, you know, I think most people know the story. The Hopkinson flag uh the Hopkinson designed flag uh is the first flag that was authorized in America in 1777 and raised
here in Bridgewater Township. Despite what you might have learned in school about Betsy Ross in Philadelphia, that didn't happen until 1792. Um and and you know, my my view on that is that each and every American flag since that time, wherever and whenever it's flown, does trace its heritage to
Bridgewater Township. So, that's not to say we're better than anybody, but it certainly is uh a unique uh uh you know, a unique part of our history and something for all of us to be proud of. Uh I also had the opportunity because, you know, one Declaration of Independence reading is not enough. Uh
on Tuesday evening, I went over to Bound Brook uh and there was another reading of the Declaration of Independence, this time by a person in um uh a patriotic garb. Uh and that's my report. >> I have a question. the Hopkinson flag in the back of the room. Do we know how old
that is? >> I the the the um the plaque there probably tells the story of that specific one. That that flag is close to the Hopkinson design. >> Okay. >> Um the Hopinson design has six pointed stars. The reason for that is is that's
the standard of General George Washington representing uh when when and where he was in residence. Um, so that's really the key difference is not just the configuration of the stars in in I guess what you'd call a rose pattern, uh, but also that it is a six-pointed
rather than fiveointed star. So that that's close and I know there is high s high historical significance to that particular flag. Um, they're they're close. that that flag there. There was a gentleman who lived in the end of Miller Lane, Herby Bullo, and he actually had a
barn that he built a museum in uh to the history of America. It was a very big history person. He passed away a couple years ago that came out of his property, was given to the friends of the Bridgewater history who have loaned it to us.
>> Yeah. The Hawk Watch. >> Yes. So, if you're going back, there's one point the road curves to the left. Uh, he had a big house and barn back there. Um, very historic piece of property when I was a kid. Uh, before
insurance was what it was, it was known as the old man's home. Uh, they used to rent rooms to elderly people um who would Yeah. In exchange for their uh social security check, they provided a board room and board to elderly
individuals for housing. >> Okay. Um, [clears throat] Councilman >> Bucko to the bank. >> Uh, thank you very much, Madam President. >> The third of the month. That's how I do that. [snorts] >> Um, uh, very uh, very brief. Um as uh
Councilman Kersh mentioned uh we met with the uh administration regarding um uh the uh bond issues that uh we will we will um uh touch on later this evening.
There was uh much discussion on that and uh I also attended the uh flag raising ceremony at uh the Middlebrook encampment and on the the 4th of July and even
though it was cut short due to the weather um it was a very very uh nice uh ceremony and and very proud to have been part of it this year. It is um a a reminder to all of us of the the rich
history that Bridgewater has and some of it is not told the way it should be. That is my report. >> Thank you, Councilman Bako. Councilwoman Isla. >> Hi. So, thank you. Um I just wanted to
add to the health cam of New Jersey that um President Gger has already mentioned. So it is a health screening and disease prevention fair fair. I'll I'll share it so everyone can uh register if you're interested. It's at the Hindu temple uh right here in one temple drive in
Bridgewwater the Balology Mandr. [clears throat] And um what's important here is that if anyone is uninsured or underinsured uh of age 40 or older there's a list of screening that will be available to you.
So a complete blood panel test, uh, EKG or electroc cardiogram, eye exam, eye exams are very important. You don't want to wait until you start losing your sight. Early prevention is critical. Um, you know, definitely go in for the eye
exam, cardiac evaluation and counseling. Over the Fourth of July weekend, uh, one of our family members was actually in the hospital. He had a blockage. Um, my my husband's uncle. So, you know, he had to get some emergency surgery. Luckily, he's in stable condition now. But again,
don't wait till, you know, you you feel like you don't have health insurance, you can't get it done, you have a blockage, you're just going to let it go a little bit longer, a little bit longer. He was just sitting on his chair and then he just collapsed. So, luckily, his family was there in New York City and they were able to take him in. And
then there's other things available, dietary, weight management, dental screening. Like I said, I'll I'll I'll share this uh in in uh social media and anywhere else. So, you can pre-register. It's only $10 to pre-register, but you get this whole list of exams for free
and a lot of doctors will be there on site. So, you don't have to be South Asian, you know, just go there. I know South Asians have higher risk of certain cardiovascular diseases, um, as I know from my own family, but definitely take an opportunity. It's just a few minutes drive from here. And then this week, um,
I was at the planning board. A lot of good, uh, a couple of really good applications. uh not just first or second generation Bridgewwater. There was an application where we're looking forward to have a third generation hopefully growing up and and living in Bridgewater and then a second application that will hopefully bring in
good good jobs and um and and stay compliant uh with with our our current neighborhood. So that was on Tuesday. So, you know, if you're interested in joining outside of the council meetings, you know, come to these planning board meetings. There's a zoning board meeting coming up on Tuesday as well. Um and
then the youth council did meet uh yesterday on uh Wednesday. So the uh Bridgewater Youth Council is planning to come to the council to the mayor and and present some ideas for some uh uh uh hopefully some new type of legislative policy work that actually
impacts their rights, younger folks 16 and above, not just adults um who who who we mostly talk about here. So just stay tuned for the next hopefully council meeting when they're here and they'll speak to us directly. Um and that's it for today.
>> Okay, that concludes. >> If I could just amend my uh my report, I did forget to mention uh something at the previous meeting which I then proceeded to once again forget. I had the uh opportunity to attend uh the um
youth rugby uh tournament that was held at Crim uh the Crim soccer fields uh three weekends ago. And uh it was a lot of youth teams from all over uh central New Jersey came together for uh for
rugby matches. um flag rugby, not uh not any uh of the real uh rough uh prolevel rugby that probably are used to, but uh it was a a very nice day and uh I think a lot of uh a lot of uh fun was had uh
for all. >> Thank you. That concludes the um council reports, mayor's report. Welcome back. >> Thank you. Um I have a couple items. Um, first of all, I believe council president, you probably mentioned at the
last meeting, but I want to publicly thank you for the invitation to accompany you to the uh Canadian consulate and I think I have Councilwoman Islo also thank uh by proxy um uh for for that opportunity. Um so uh
it was a really great night and I appreciate that experience. Um a couple other things for today's storm. So far there's no reported flooding issues. there's some trees that came down um and there were some temporary road closures, but there shouldn't be any or not aware of any widespread reports of flooding or
major issues. Obviously, if residents become available of of items, they should contact the township. Um and uh we'll continue to monitor the uh you know, the river levels to make sure that uh there isn't flooding uh later in the night. Um the trees for tomorrow tree
planting began last week in Bradley Garden section of town. Approximately 20 trees were planted. Um there are photos on display that you can take a look at. >> Um the uh chiefs of all the volunteer fire departments have written a letter asking for assistance um asking for us
to do an ordinance to provide assistance in snow removal around fire hydrants. Uh Mr. Christini's office is taking a look at that in terms of providing a potential ordinance for consideration uh and you know more discussion with the council on that matter. The 2025 audit has been received distributed to the
council. I want to thank the acting CFO and the finance office staff for their hard work on this. Um, the only recommendation uh was addressed in the 2026 approved budget and that was the unanticipated uh overtime cost for public works uh for the snow removal at the very end of December. So, the amount
of $18,000 was funded in this year's budget that was related to last year's expenditures. So, that was the only um notation in the audit uh that you all have. And of course, if you have any questions, you want to meet with staff on anything, just obviously let us know and we'll we'll arrange for for all of
that. Um, two other items I just wanted to point out and and I'd appreciate the council's consideration for potentially taking them out of order. Um, the uh the first one is we have an appointment on the agenda tonight for Kirsten Foresight, who is um here with us this
evening um for the appointment to the Youth Services Commission. Um, Kirsten I met with uh a couple weeks ago now. Um, but uh, you know, she I don't I'm not going to um share all of her story. If
she wants to, she can she can share all of it. But um her um she has um her family has had their own experience um significant experience over the past um this past year with um
issues of mental health and issues of um uh social uh social interactions with students both in the high school, outside of the high school. Um, and I think that her uh her
story, her experience um as a as a parent, as a resident um would be uh give the youth um youth services commission a um very different perspective of somebody who um can understand the need for certain services
um that the youth service commission does provide or could provide in the future. And I think she would be um a wonderful opportunity, a wonderful asset to the township. Um and I think it would um give the township a lot of benefits as well as uh Kirsten an opportunity to
um uh turn a tragic uh situation into one of positivity and um help for others. So um she is here tonight. You have her resume. Um, so I' I'd ask you at some point in time if you could consider
potentially um I mean she can sit here through the whole meeting, but um I don't know if um the bond discussion is as um you know if we could um consider that >> it's gripping >> um what's that? Yeah, the bond discussion. Yes. So um >> so she is here um uh tonight and uh
we're also um very uh glad to see Eric Murdoch is here with us tonight, our our local Bridgewater star. Eric, uh uh thank you for all your partnership with um with the township over all your your years and everything you do with the recck department and for all of our
kids. Um Eric is here as many of you know we've been working with him on improvements to um to the Hopstown area whether it was on uh roads and now of course tonight we have the award of contract for the improvement of the Philip and David Miller Park. Um, you
know, that was really started with Eric's vision and advocacy on getting that park back up to something that we can really be proud of and maybe bringing a little bit of that history um and what that park used to be. I mean, I know some of the stories Eric would tell
and hearing some of the events that were held there about um uh you know that we would be able to um do. So, uh that item, the award of contract is uh is on. and it's item D on the um on the on the agenda. >> So, um that one uh same thing. I know
Eric is here and uh you know to see that finally move forward. Um so those uh those are the two items here and um that concludes my report. >> Thank you, Mayor. >> Does anyone have any objection to doing the appointment to the municipal
alliance? I was going to suggest that if we went through open public comment, [clears throat] >> uh then before we do any of the ordinances, I just confirmed with council, we could actually do all the resolutions in consent before we have
any public hearings on the three ordinances. >> That makes sense. Um the only thing I would say is uh I think we want to do B separately the the uh >> Okay. Well, we can do the resolutions. >> Okay. >> So, you just make a motion motion to
amend the agenda the Yes. Steve, you want to do it? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, >> okay. >> So, um can I have a motion to open the meeting to the public? >> So moved. >> Second. All in favor? >> I. >> Members of the public wishing to address
the council on any matter will have three minutes to speak which may be extended in the discretion of the council president. An additional minute will be allotted for responses to comments from the deis. Um so anyone wishing to speak there is a signin sheet. You can put down your name and
your address. Okay? And then when you come to the podium just say your name and if you wouldn't mind saying whether or not you're a resident of Bridgewater, I would appreciate it. We would appreciate it. And Madam President, we may also want to clarify that uh despite
the change in the order, we we will be holding public hearings on 10ABC. So comments on those three subjects can and should wait until that time. >> That's correct. Basically, those are three bond ordinances. So anybody who's here to
talk about the bond ordinances, you will have a separate open public meeting portion. Hello, sir. Go ahead. Uh, good evening. My name is Joseph Charelle. Uh, I am at 102 Delaware Lane,
Branchburg, and I'm here today. I'm also with the Somerset Indivisible and with Food and Water Watch. So I will tell you three reasons why the entire surrounding area will be negatively affected by the
400,000 square foot AI data center at Greyark. Now Greyark is a beautiful building. It's has a gazebo and has an elegant lobby. It also has a lot of professional
services, primary care, orthopedic, eye, dental, neurological, and so it would be a shame to destroy this beautiful building and to also lose these professional services that are
there now. Now, I urge the council to consider the following three reasons impacts on the community. First, huge power demand. This AI data center is estimated to draw approximately
six 60 megawatts of power. That's equivalent to 30,000 homes. >> 60 did you say? Just >> 60. >> 60. >> 60. Yes. >> Okay. Introducing this level of demand
introduces a risk of straining our energy infrastructure and higher electricity costs for all. Two threatened water resources and aquifers.
A this AI computing uh generates immense heat which requires huge cooling. The facility is projected to consume 1 million gallons of water each day.
That's equivalent to 10,000 residential homes. >> Or what is that based on? >> You're you're sharing statistics as to how much energy and how much water is going to be done. Let me just clarify. There's no application before any land
use board. This property is tied up in litigation right now. There's active court hearings. There's no nobody has submitted a plan to say we're going to build a data center there >> of any size. >> Of any size. So what are you basing the electrical and water use off of when
there's not a plan for a data center there? >> A similar vine facility in vinand a data center. >> Okay. >> But >> okay. >> Is it apples to apples? We don't know because pretty much >> you don't how do we know that? There's not a plan. >> Well, you could ratio it.
>> Okay. Okay. Well, uh, do you want me to finish my third point? >> Sure. I just wanted to point out for the purposes that >> there's no active there's no active >> there's no active plan. So, we can't we can't take what you're saying, right, >> and review that to a plan because there
is no plan for anything there right now. >> Okay. I'm just giving you >> or please continue. >> Okay. Thanks. Okay. Third, disruptive and continuous noise pollution. These centers operate 24/7
and their massive cooling fans and diesel generators produce a constant humming sound. In Vineland, a similar data center has driven local residents to file a class action suit due to the
unbearable noise pollution. It routinely hits 55 dibels and this is from 1000 p.m. to 7 a.m. and severely disrupting sleep and diminishing property values. In
conclusion, town council pro prides itself in protecting Bridgewater residents and the surrounding environment. While proposed as a ratable project of scale brings minimal employment while extracting exorbitant
toll on our water, power and peace of mind. So, thank you very much for your time. >> Okay. So, you have a minute to respond, but I I want to I want to respond to you. First of all, I want you to know that this council is taking the issue of data centers
very seriously. There are no specific detailed plans for there to be a data center in Bridgewater at this time, but >> we're all concerned about it because we all know if there's vacant land, it could happen. This is my file on data centers. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay.
>> We're taking it seriously. >> Okay. >> Okay. I want you to know that, >> President. Um >> I want you I want you to also know that it is my understanding, and I could be wrong, but I think it's worth further research,
that two days ago, um, Governor Mikey Cheryl >> signed legislation that would limit the number of megahertz mega mega >> megawatts, >> megawws to 50. And if they're if they
want to go over 50, >> if they want even if they want to go under 50, but if they want to go 50 or more, and I I could be my numbers could be a little bit off, okay? But they have to get special permission from the utilities companies. And it's my understanding that the the way the
legislation was passed, they will be p they have passed legislation one that does away with tariffs. Um I mean that adds tariffs. Two, that does away with tax incentives that were given to data centers in the past. So that's gone.
Three, that the legislation would require the data centers to pay for their own electric cost. So it wouldn't be spread out to all of the um citizens, >> any expansion of the electrical system needed for the data >> even more, right? >> Has to be covered by infrastructure
>> the infrastructure as well, right? if they have to build a new what would you call new substations >> power lines. >> Okay. So >> they don't want the electric company taking those costs and spreading across all >> spreading it out to all the residents. >> Right. So that that problem
>> you're on. >> Knock on wood. Knock on wood may be taken care of. >> Okay. >> The water issue I'm there's there's there's multiple layers to that. Um it could be water. Some of them are looking at cooling systems in coolants instead
and that brings a different set of problems. Okay. The noise issue. Bridgewater has a noise ordinance that limits the amount of of noise that anyone can make. Um and right now it
would be difficult for a data center of any type of meaningful size to meet that criteria. Um and and I think that those are my only comments, but I do want you to know this council's taking it very very seriously. We are very much on top
of it. Um that particular property is tied up in litigation, so we can't say too much about it. Okay. And I don't know if anyone else has any comments. >> Madam President, just one one item. Um the front building you talk about 1,200 um that will not be replaced. Uh in your
the opening of your comments, you talked about the the beauty and the functionality of that building. that building is unimpacted, >> okay, >> by this. This is um a second essentially a second lot that's behind it that is currently vacant. >> So, you know, first I mean, thank you
for being here. Thank you for your concern, but you know, I think it's critically important that, you know, everyone everyone do their homework um and and not necessarily run with the worst part of the story. >> And I do want I I I want the public to know we are receiving more emails about it. We are getting
questions from the public. I mean, we are reading every every line of every email we get. Um, we are doing a lot of research. We are looking at it very very carefully. We're very aware of it. >> Okay. It's it's probably number one on my, you know, concern list.
>> Okay. If I if I could, I was going to uh bring this up in the discussion section, but um since uh since it is been brought up, I I um will uh I guess add a little bit of
of context that uh I I also cons u I also share your concerns with the impact to um the environment uh specifically the the water system uh and and just clean air in general. Um, I will I will
point out some some information um that has uh been in in the news from uh other areas of the country. um a uh a a data center that was uh that is
in uh Cheyenne, Wyoming, um ended up uh contaminating the wastewater system because of um uh of some issues with uh with the discharge of of water that was
contaminated with a bacteria virus. um bacteria, not a virus. That was um ended up uh requiring the uh utility, the wastewater utility to say you can't send your wastewater here anymore. Um on the
subject of of wastewater um the uh uh data center that is uh in Memphis, Tennessee that is operated by um X the um uh one of Elon Musk's
companies. Um they they had uh promised that the data center would reuse water and uh build a uh water recycling plant instead of uh dumping it into the uh uh sewer sewage system. Um they ended up
not coming through with that promise. And uh I guess my uh my point in in pointing this out is that if the richest man in the world's company can't be bothered to fulfill the promise to uh clean up their wastewater, can we really
expect uh anybody else to do so either. Um, but I I do thank you for for bringing this uh this to our attention and and as the the council president has said, we have uh received lots of uh of emails uh about uh this topic in
particular and uh I think there there will be more uh to say on it uh both later later this evening and and uh in the coming future. >> Sir, you have to speak into the mic. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> You have to speak into the mic. You're
also being broadcast. >> I was I I have a back problem so I needed to sit down. Uh yes. Is that any other comments? Can I >> Yeah. So in addition to getting questions from the public um you know we
we have trainings for planning board members and zoning board members. So I attended the one at RVCC this year and you know the keynote speaker I think it was Judge Menon you know we did talk about a little bit about AI data centers and this just it's New Jersey is not
ready for that was the judicial kind of background at at at a local level that we're just not ready you know the the power that we've spoken about we would have to build up a lot of infrastructure that's required to do this the right way. So um you know we had playbooks for
all these other upcoming zoning and planning issues but it didn't seem like AI data centers was really you know something that's ready to go and that's just from my perspective. >> Also just came out AOC introduced a bill
in Congress to put a moratorum I think a one-year moratorum on data centers nationally. So that may be passed nationally. >> Okay. Thank you very much sir. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to address the
council? >> Hi, good evening. Uh, my name is >> Just hold the mic down a little bit. >> Short. My name is Mona McCale and I live on three Bogart Drive and I'm here to ask the council here to close down PCEL
at Waltersbrook. It has caused us a lot of problems over the years. Traffic has increased quite a bit and traffic has caused us uh garbage being thrown out on our lawn. Uh buses and and school buses going through. We have 18 wheelers going through because it's a basically a
shortcut from uh Waltersbrook down to 28. They raise down 40 45 miles an hour going. It's a 25 mph zone. We need to They don't stop. They don't stop. They don't just zoom down just to get to to 28. It has caused us a lot of problems
with accidents. We have cars that hit uh brick uh mailboxes. They've hit cars on the sidewalk. They hit cars going in into the driveway and hit the car inside the driveway and the the garage door and went and hit another car inside the
garage. It would hit ricocheted three cars in. Yeah. I have a picture of a car that turned over in front of my house at 12 midnight at night with two people trapped inside the car and I was out there trying to help him out to get him out of the car. Me and my daughter. My
daughter was uh at the time is an EMT and she had all her friends hanging out in front of my door because they were all hanging out trying to figure out how to get this pe these people guys out of the out of the car. Literally, I was there trying to open up the the door so they can climb out. they couldn't get
out. So, we had to open the the raw the roof of the car to get them out of the car while the car is leaking stuff all over the the street. And I'm thinking maybe the car is going to blow up. And here I am trying to get them out. So, this this situation has continued over the years. It wasn't designed that way
initially when the first we first moved in. Now, it's become out of control. So, um, there is a list of streets. Um, I met with the with the chief of police and with our traffic safety officer.
We're we're well aware of the fact that there are a multitude of traffic problems in Bridgewater. >> Okay. Um, it's you're not alone. Okay. Um, and there is a list of about 70 streets, Chief, if you remember. I think it's
about 70 streets. Um, I can double check and see if if yours is on that, but I know usually when someone from the public comes and makes a comment like yours, usually um, town administrator Papis starts looking into it. If you want to make a comment or mayor, if you want,
>> we can take a look specifically. I think one of the problems actually, if I remember correctly, Buena Parkway, I think, is didn't wasn't always open if I remember correctly. And I think that's probably what uh, >> it hasn't wasn't open and then all of a sudden they opened it. So when we >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, it's been open probably for a little, you know, for a while, but it's um yeah, which 20 years
ago wasn't open, I don't think. >> Right. And I was one of the first ones to move in that area. It was nice and quiet and peaceful >> and now our homes are worth a million dollars and we can't even enjoy our homes because all these cars running through the through the stop sign. I literally drove >> down to the stop sign where someone just
passed me while I was pulling out of my driveway. >> Tell them, "I got your license and don't you do that again because I'm going to report you to the police." I shouldn't be policing my street. I called it several times. People have the police had come and put a um a speed thing on and they say, "Oh, we can't keep this
thing here for too long." A week and it was gone. I asked them to come again. They didn't show up. And then I asked them to come and police the street and they said, "We can't because as the cars come down the street, >> they see the cars. They see the police car at the end of the road." Said, "We can't police it." >> They literally said that to me.
>> Yeah, it's it's out of control. >> Yeah, it's tough. We'll have the traffic safety unit take a quick look. I mean, if they have data on it already, then we'll we'll, you know, make sure we have it. And >> my request is that that sidewalk on Walters Brook on Purcell to be extended and closing down the street. I've called the um
>> You say closed down the street. >> We don't have the authority. >> Extend it. Extend the the sidewalk. So, basically, nobody can turn in. It's not a It should be a shortcut. >> Yeah. I I don't I don't know um if that's possible, but what we can do is is look at a couple things. One of which is um if you're saying that there's
trucks going through there, there may be there may be ability to look at um you know truck restrictions. Um none of this stuff is as easy as you think. Even with truck restrictions, there's rules that we have to follow that are outside of our jurisdiction about when you can and can't do it. >> Is something that happened in in uh
Raritin where they shut down the street by by extending the sidewalk and nobody drives through it. >> And basically it's just a half a mile down the road and they're on 28. I'm sorry. They're on to 22 and from 22 goes into 28, right? >> And with this the problem is solved. >> Yeah. Well, well, look, I I what I don't
want to do is is over I don't want to overpromise something and and set your expectations. You know, right now what I can tell you is that we will have our traffic safety unit. If they haven't already, you know, the administration will make sure we get whatever data we have. If we need more data, then we will get it >> and we will ask whether it's
>> traffic study would help, but it would it has to start in September, which which is accelerated traffic. We will ask our our you know the our lawyer. We'll ask any of our you know professionals that impact this what type of solutions um fit that we can do. Um
and then we will come back with a discussion over you know internally or with the council or with you and other residents about you know what we think is is feasible. >> I live over there too ma'am and I agree with you. It's a total mess. Um I live over there as well. I live like two streets over from you. It's a total your road and that little like is a total
mess. Absolute mess. Yeah. >> Can I ask if that's a school bus route? >> Uh, no. I guess just a few people stop at the the bus stops at the home to drop off a younger child. >> Mhm. >> But not the older ones. >> Yeah. Cuz I I
>> going through the our neighbor for today. >> I've seen people run school buses when I pick up my child. So, it's really dangerous if that's how fast they're going. >> Basically, they can come out the other way through uh Buenov, >> whatever it's called on the other side. Mhm. >> So for the younger children, but my
daughter didn't have had to walk all the way to Walters Brook to get picked up by the bus. >> Mhm. >> So it's it's not a it's not a a very simple situation to correct. >> Yeah, we we'll take a look. We obviously we'll look at it >> both.
>> Okay. >> Sir, just make sure you sign in if you haven't already. Okay. Thank you. >> Uh and President Ger, thank you for inviting me. I had messaged [clears throat] you online and you responded that I should come in and and state my position about this. I live
around >> Oh, state your name for the record. >> Steuart. I live at 23 Purcell Road. >> Not the not Steuart, the lawyer. >> Yes. >> Oh, the You are the Steuart Esome. >> I don't know if I was ever the but now
retired. I don't know. >> Um >> I've been practicing a long time. I know the name. Uh, so I live around the corner from from Mona. I live on Purcell and there's a stop sign that separates us. And she's right. This problem has
gotten worse and worse over the years. I don't intend to pile on the same facts, but I want to tell you how it affects us. We can't pull out of our driveway because the cars coming around that corner through the stop sign are
traveling so fast that if I look and see there's no car at the stop sign, by the time I put it in gear and go back, they are right teed to my car and yelling at me and with the finger out. And the
reason is that intersection is not a T intersection. It's caned to the side of Purcell that goes to Waltersbrook. So they don't have to slow down. It's a stop sign. They treat it as
a turn in a curve. And so there's no deaceleration. They are flying through that turn. And just two days ago, that same thing happened. It was one of those hot days. A guy had his window down. He was tee to my car as I pulled back. And
I said, 'You know, you just went through a stop sign.' He said, 'I've been driving this way for 20 years, and if the cops don't care how I drive, I don't care. So to me, that's an indication there's no enforcement. We know there's no enforcement. And we've had the public
safety officer out. It wasn't a recently, so there's probably a different officer. He said, "This is not a policing problem because we're not going to police it. We don't have the resources to do it. you need to go to the engineering department and you need to tell the engineering department
something's wrong here. And I called the engineering department and never got a response. So my request to you is I heard the mayor say we're going to look into it. There's got to be an engineering solution to keeping the
people from speeding down uh speeding down uh uh Bogart going through that stop sign and leaving the neighborhood because it's just a cutthroat, >> right? >> And uh I think Mona's solution seems
radical, but it's great idea. If it's not a pass through, they're not going to be there. So there has to be some engineering approach. I know you said or somebody said, you know, we can't do that. We don't have the authority to do that. It's a it's not a state street. It
it's a Bridgewater street. A Bridgewater board at some time, you know, looked at the engineering plans and approved it. And the public safety officer at the time said, "What do you want from my life?" You know, I didn't design it. So
that's where we are. And we're victims at this point to the speeding cars, the cars that don't honor the the stop sign. And you know, it's it's worse uh it's worse in the fall, it's worse in the
spring when people are back in school. Um but it's bad all year. You know, there's there's no time. >> Uh and I've suggested to my neighbors, we set up a camera to show you, but it sounds like we don't need to prove there's a problem. Everyone knows who's been in that neighborhood that that is a
terrible intersection. That is a terrible stretch. >> Parking creates a bottleneck too that I think when cars are speeding down that going too fast, you can have a bad act not a bad accident but a bad bad result. >> I don't even use it anymore >> with the um with the engineering issue. So, you know, there's two points which is, you know, I I don't know if there is
a solution. which is why I'm saying we'll look at it because there very well may be multiple uh solutions that work in terms of redesigning an intersection uh impacting um you know sight lines. One of the things that we look at when we talk about you know potentially closing roads is not just um you know
when you do traffic studies it's not just what is the impact there but if you're redirecting cars are we creating another problem somewhere else. So the traffic study when it comes to changing traffic patterns looks at you know the impact on on Bogart look on PCEL but also you know what does that mean other places so it's it's a comprehensive uh
issue but we will look at you know having engineering look at it whether it's an enforcement issue a design issue a road um you know if there is a solution that come we can do we will we will pursue it and see if that is possible um there's issues that come up
with you know right ofways and roads uh which is I mean I law you practiced. But uh you know certainly you may you may recall that um you know towns often have right of way uh where we can expand roads if we have the right into into someone's front yard up to a certain point. Um, but depending on when the
houses were built, I don't know, an example in your neighborhood whether we still have uh the inherent right to expand the roads there if we wanted to um or you know uh but anyway we will that's why legal council engineering traffic safety will look at all of that and be able to see what the options are.
>> Thank you. I'll give you one in one. Uh I I think four, five, six years ago, I read in the paper that there was a grant for traffic control and they wanted to put it on I forget which street
>> uh but in our neighborhood someplace and the neighbors didn't want it. It was like speed bumps or something. >> Yeah. >> And I called up and said, "What about our street?" I never got a call back on that. >> Yeah. I I I will say I wasn't going to say this, but you would be surprised that sometimes when you um uh propose
some of these things, um if if we came here tonight and said we were closing down um Bogart, I guarantee you at the next meeting, we also would have a uh a several people who would then be here about why that's a problem. So, none of this is easy even from that standpoint. Um we did something with sidewalks at
one point in time I thought was a no-brainer and we had literally two competing petitions of 50 residents on each side about one in favor, one against. then you know you you can't win but um we will look at it we will see what we can do. >> Thank you for your time ma >> madam president just one very brief comment because I live in this extended neighborhood so I certainly understand
the challenges of cutthroughs and people not paying attention to speed limits but one thing that I think needs clarification is a comment was made something to the effect of um we don't police it, we won't police it, we won't enforce it. I I mean the chief is is in the room. Perhaps he should be given the
chance to state the fact that um we do enforce laws. Um we cannot enforce every law on every street at every time. But to make the statement we won't enforce it, we can't enforce it, I do not believe is the position of the Bridgewater Police Department in this
neighborhood or any other. I will tell you that's what we were told by and it might be a prior public safety officer who came out because it was several years ago and what he said was we don't have the resources to sit here and make sure people use the stop sign.
>> Yeah. >> Well, I I mean again I don't know if the chief wants to comment or not. I I think the answer is we do we do not have the resources to to to put a police officer at every stop sign in in the municipality. That is an absolute >> I don't blame them. Of course they don't. That's why I'm saying we need an
engineering solution. Something has to stop this because the police, whether they can't or won't or not in a position to, something has to be done and something could be done. And, you know, having somebody stop by the stop sign, you
know, X times in a month, you know, isn't necessarily going to do anything, but that's what we were told that this is not a police issue. >> Thank you very much. Is there anyone else? >> Ah,
>> hello. Hello, council. >> Thank you. >> My name is Eric Murdoch. I'm a Bridgewater resident um in the Hobstown section of Bridgewater. I was raised by my grandmother. Um
my mother died when I was six months old. Um there was no sidewalks. She was walking along North Bridge and was hit by a drunk driver. She was tossed into a ditch, uh 6 in of water. She fell face
down into the water and drowned. >> Oh my god. >> Um but my grandmother had nine kids of her own and she took me in as if I was hers. uh to this day she's 99 years old and uh I live
with her and I take care of her. We watch NBA four nights a week and uh she's an avid uh Golden State Warrior fan and I said she's not going to die of old age, she's going to die of yelling at Draymond Green. So um but uh she
raised me and um also um the park raised me. Um, after school, I would go down to the park every day, every day until the lights came on. And, uh, honed in on my skills, uh, honed in on, uh, how to be a
great teammate, uh, work ethic, um, integrity, everything that, you know, makes you a man. And, uh, I owe everything, uh, to that park. One of the main reasons why I made it to the NBA is is that park. And the park is named
after my uncles, Uncle Dave and Uncle Phil, Philip Miller, who are not with us. And right now, that park does not represent, you know, what they stood for as um you know, leaders uh in that community. Um
I want to thank the mayor uh for um hearing the issue, seeing the issue, and promising me that we would get this thing moving forward. um you know he is a man of his word and this was maybe a year maybe two years
ago and he said we're gonna get it done and uh right now it looks like we're going to get this this basketball court done and I'd like to thank you I'd like to thank you for introducing Mr. Phil who is back here u for really coming on board and really really moving this this
project forward. So uh I don't have any issues. I came here to just thank you guys for uh you know making Bridgewater Township one of the best places to live in in New Jersey and I I really appreciate that. >> Come anytime and repeat that. >> Yeah. [laughter]
>> And I should I should point out two things. One, there is a grant that also helps offset some of the costs of this which is great. And the other thing is uh you know don't let Eric fool you. He's just as good a politician as us sitting up here. I'm pretty sure at the um the event that he hosts which is also
coming up to give away backpacks to kids that's on uh the >> August 22 >> 22nd Saturday >> um which is a fantastic event. I'm pretty sure it was I think it was last summer but one of those summers when I got there um Eric made sure to get me on
the microphone in public uh to make sure that it was committed to the part to the fe to the to the court project. So uh uh don't let his nice guy opinion fool you. he was shrewd politician and uh got that public commitment. So, thank you all for everything that you do. You're running camps right now, I know, for our kids in
the summer >> and uh what you do with the wreck program uh is an experience that the you know, every kid raves about. So, thank you. >> Yeah. Well, it's uh it's a difference cuz I see the mayor at Lifetime working out all the time and I see him in the gym when I'm working out his son
Jackson. And so, mayor, it's good to see you marrying right now, man. Yeah, that's right. It's a >> different thing, but uh again, I'd like to thank everyone involved for uh getting this uh project done. Um it means a lot. It means a lot to me. It means a lot to uh the people of of the
community and um you know, we need to see kids in the park again. You know, obviously they have a lot of distractions um you know, with everything going on. So, uh really really appreciate you guys and thank you so much, Mayor. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Murdoch. If you didn't, please sign
in. I signed it. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hi. Good evening. Uh my name is Tim Deal. I actually live at 76 Culver Street in Somerville. So, uh not from Bridgewater. >> Did you sign in? >> I did. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> No problem. Um I currently serve as the chair of the Somerville Environmental Commission. So, um you know, I just wanted to firstly congratulate you guys. um at this council for reestablishing the environmental commission here in Bridgewater as a neighbor. Um you know, I find that really encouraging and I
hope that it does a lot of good for you guys in your town because it's a kind of a pillar of of our community. So I I hope the best for you guys as well. Um so I'm actually not here tonight in that sort of capacity. I'm here as a small business owner in the local area and as
an organic farmer by trade. Um I am unable to make the zoning board meeting uh next Tuesday. Um and I understand that that's when the board will be voting on whether to accept the variance application for the Melik farmstand property and you know if that's going to
become a storage facility. So um I just wanted to come here tonight and share what I've found. Um so like I mentioned I run a small business. Um it's called Twisted Root Organics. Um, and I teach people how to grow their own food in
their own space. Um, but more widely and and um, historically, I I've been part of the local food movement for over a decade. Um, and with a degree in botany um, and environmental studies, I'm looking at this issue both from the lens
of the human and community impact and the scientific impact um, specifically when it comes to the nutrition of the food available. So, I just wanted to um go through a few um items that might be of note for you. Uh most people don't
know that the nutrient density of all produce decreases as soon as it's picked. So, that means that the farther something travels to get to you and onto your plate, it means the less nutrition nutritious it is for you chemically. So,
of course, something harvested uh nearby and sold within a few days of when it was harvested um keeps a lot more of its vitamins uh and the content um than something that was picked far away and shipped um across the country. Our
agricultural system has ballooned in size over the last century and a half and local farms are becoming harder and harder to find. Um New Jersey is uh one of the outliers in that. We do have a lot of local farms which I think is great as the garden state. Um but
another benefit is that the produce that comes from a local farm was picked when it was actually ripe. Um so that may seem obvious but uh in comparison um to be able to ship produce across the country, factory farms harvest food
early and use a synthetic method of pumping gas into the trucks during shipping to ripen the produce. So this considerably affects the flavor. I think anybody who's tasted a viner ripened cherry tomato versus what you get at the store could attest to that. But um
research also suggests that it also affects the nutrient density of your food. So compounded with the um issue of it traveling far uh you know local grown food is is significantly better for you. There's also an interesting food
security aspect to this as well. Um we experienced many varied impacts over the last few months when our supply chains were disrupt disrupted for different global reasons. Um so it's a net benefit to you and your community to have food
coming into the town from a hyper local source. Um especially if in the future relying on the global supply chain continues to be less consistent. Um, in addition to those kind of more scientific um impacts, there's also a
community impact. And I'm almost done, I promise. Um, at the uh risk of being a little bit cheesy, uh, a farm stand is a meeting place. Um, you see your neighbors there, you know the cashier, and even more
rarely at this point in time, you can sometimes know your farmer, which used to be a really common thing. Um, this specific farm stand has open space and it has a lot of trees. Um, so that's beautiful in and of itself. Uh, it's
access to food grown a few miles away instead of a few thousand miles away. It's the kind of place that people build memories around. And the charm of this place, specifically at the Melik Farm stand, is becoming the sort of thing that you don't only that you only read
about in classic Americana literature at this point. A storage facility isn't any of that. And even more concerning, recently storage facilities have been used as stepping stones to other businesses down the line like data centers or worse.
So, uh, getting to my point here, you can see how this issue as an organic farmer myself and a small business and a neighbor to you guys here in Bridgewwater, um, you can see how this would have piqued my interest. Um, and since I'm not a resident here of
Bridgewater, um, I decided to do the one thing I could do. Um, I ended up making a video to raise awareness of this issue and help people understand what they can do, um, if they're concerned about this possible transformation.
I want to note that nobody asked me to make a video. Um it's really just because this is an issue very close to my heart and my values and um I I wanted to do something about it because um Melik is a place that I go all the time.
We get their cider and um you know it's just a really special part of our community. Um, so I figured that as a small business here locally, I have a a small following on Instagram and figured I would I would use my skills um my
limited skills in videography to post a video. Um, but I was really not expecting the response that I would get. As of 5:30 this evening, the video was viewed 37,000 times. >> [laughter]
>> Um, it has 2,600 likes, 200 comments, and was shared almost 900 times um between friends. So, you know, I don't have any other videos on my page that are anywhere near as um you know,
engaging as that. And to me, that shows that this issue is important and resonates with people in our area. Um, uh, if you wouldn't mind wrapping it up, I I'll tell you why. >> Yeah. >> So, um, so, uh, I just wanted to kind of
pull the common threads between the the comments. There's just a couple. So, um, people who, uh, there were a lot of people who grew up with the stand and recognized it and worked at it themselves, which I thought was interesting. There were a lot of cute little stories that were shared. Um
there was anger generally about the idea of um trading a farm stand for storage. One comment said consume consumes consume. Oh wait, now you need a place to store all the crap you don't need. Um that one comment got 90 likes. Um and uh
people kind of pointed to presidents um from other towns about how they were able to um potentially stop something like this happening in their area. And um there was a lot of people uh asking people to show up at the zoning board
meeting on Tuesday and Melik's farm stand actually commented saying thank you for all of the support. Um so I really just wanted to come here to relay these these findings to you. I did not expect this video to make any sort of um
a splash and this is really just a PSA to you guys. um I can't be at the zoning board meeting and I really just wanted to report back on the response that I got and um you know I think overall this really just kind of gave me hope that um
you know people are really concerned about this um and uh I think that that says a lot about our community and um I think that what I'm ultimately asking is I hope that the zoning board makes a call to reject the variance because
That's what the people are asking for and it's what's scientifically and socially best for Bridgewwater. >> So, I'm going to ask our attorney to comment first before anyone from the deis makes a comment. >> Just the governing body can't really comment on this at all because it's before the zoning board. Um, so we
appreciate your comment, but we have there'll be no other comment on this. >> Great. Yeah, we can't. So, >> sounds good. I really just wanted you guys to know the overwhelming response that that I got. I would not make two well first of all I I'm not going to comment on subs anyway but just to not put anybody else in a
position um because the uh the zoning board can appeal to the to the council which is why the council mentioned it but um I would like to um just comment about the uh environmental commission and uh because that's one of the uh things that has been um we're proud of
um over the past year um getting that up and running and it reminded me that um uh that information also is being posted on our site way more visibly than it ever has before and our um environmental commission is taking a much more expanded role in some of the things that they're doing. So, uh, if you have ideas
on that front too, we will take a look at your your commission and if you have ideas, please share them because our chairman, uh, Jeff Fouse, who was on the the zoning board, um, has taken, um, a really, um, impressive leadership role in trying to, uh, take that board from,
uh, not doing anything or much of anything to being very proactive and um, a board in the community. So, thank you for uh, your service in and your town's environmental commission and for reminding me. I wanted to talk about that earlier, so I'll take advantage of it. And hopefully you'll come do some videos for us because if I if you can
figure out how to get 36,000 views, I I could use a few of those myself. So, thank you. [laughter] >> Yeah. And I I wanted to extend your not regarding the zoning, but um last year I was invited to the Somerville Environmental Commission and I learned so much and thank you for your
willingness to help us now that we have it going as well because you guys have amazing expertise as well. So, look forward to working together. >> Thank you. Yes, of course. We're we're neighbors, so I'd love to collaborate more. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you, everybody.
>> Okay. Thank you, >> Carolyn. Did you uh No, you're going to sign in now. Where would we go? >> Good evening. I'm Carolyn Joya, 1402 Paleley Court. Um, thank you for
extending time for this comment. I have had the honor of going to um an environmental commission meeting in Somerville along with some of our council people here and um they run a nice really really good ship and um it
was so inspiring to me that now I'm going to all of our environmental commission meetings. Um there would have been one tonight. There's not, but I would have been there if there would have been. >> Was it canceled because of the weather or just >> um I'm not really sure. No, it was >> we did get notice.
>> Yeah, it was there was a question about whether or not um we weren't sure that the meeting notices got up in a way that we were it was posted. They could have done it, but um in talking to the chairman, we didn't feel like it was enough public notice to make sure that you know it was we were comfortable with
it. >> Okay. Interesting that you do mention that because I was that was one of the comments I was here to make is that in the past because I've been getting very involved not only in environmental commission but with zoning. Um there have been some instances where meetings
were not posted as quickly as usual. It wasn't a violation in any sort because they're all announced in the beginning of the year and I put them in my calendar so I know in January. Um but just to make sure that you know who's ever monitoring the website with the
meeting notices to get them out you know with plenty of time especially if there's a change that's very helpful especially for this one coming up on Tuesday uh which I will be at I cannot speak um I already did speak and gave
sworn testimony last hearing but um the fact that um several people here were speaking about Bogart and Burcell and I know the last council meeting this was addressed very effectively by Chief
Mitsac that um a study had been done um regarding stop signs and a conclusion had been made. But my concern was um um if specific speed study was done or if it was just a study about the actual
accidents that took place. it seemed as though it was reported that there was not a sufficient number of accidents um that were occurring that were not dry or error um to further study the area. So, I wanted to just follow up on that. I
wasn't aware that it was going to be addressed and I did speak with the gentleman who did the petition and he couldn't make it here tonight, but he may have some um feedback on that as well. And then on Friday, there was, I believe it was Friday, a
horrific accident in front of Melik's. Um, you couldn't recognize the front of the car. I have the photo and I wanted to follow up because I Council President Guyer said, "Please don't just come to us directly or come to the police chief." I'm just curious the
circumstances around that accident because it was exactly what we're so concerned about in that area on 28 as you're heading towards the 22 ramp and the addition of the the cars and trucks and U-Hauls and box trucks that could be in that area because of the storage
facility might exacerbate an already bad situation. So, I wanted to bring that to your attention um that that accident happened and I can certainly follow up with the police chief. I don't know the circumstances. It doesn't look like anybody could have
survived it. Um but this was just on Friday and it's continuing to happen. So, that being said, plus having been going to zoning board meetings, um I'm aware that um there's an application for a very large church, one that I'm very
fond of and I've attended for years, um is opening or trying to open a campus, um that might house some 900 parishioners and increase traffic on Sunday significantly. Now, I don't have a problem with that and I think it's a
good addition to the community, but I think it's hard for the council sometimes to understand everything that's going on in the big picture with zoning and the type of traffic that we're going to be bringing into this town over the next two years could
significantly impact this community. So, I just wanted to update you on all that and go ahead. Well, I just I actually I wanted to ask you about the environmental commission. I wanted to make a comment. I wanted to ask you a question about that. Um because I have
gotten some inquiries from people who are very very interested in it. And it's my understanding because I know you go to a fair number of them. When you do go, whether you're on the commission or not, you do have an opportunity to participate and they >> absolutely I am very much an active
participant. So for anybody who's watching this or listening, if they're if they've stayed away because they're not on the commission, it doesn't mean that they can't go and participate and be heard and, you know, make their voice heard as well, right? I mean, I just want to confirm that for
>> Oh, everyone should come. I mean, they do their meeting and then at the end there's a public comment session. Actually, things that are brought up in public comment are followed up on. And I mean, Jeffus goes to, you know, no end to get answers and and make sure that
people's questions are um and concerns are addressed. So very open and um you know, user friendly. So, um, all that being said, um, again, I think it was smart to come and do sort of this little PSA because Tuesday night
for anyone here and people who are listening, um, everybody knows about it and everybody's watching Bridgewater and everybody's watching the zoning board and this is not the zoning board, but what the zoning board's going to be voting on is
going to have a significant impact on the implica or the um implementation of our mass master plan and that's something that you guys did have a big part in and what they're planning to do is very much against the master plan uh what the applicant is planning to do and
I'm sure that the zoning board is is very well aware of that and I've been very impressed with how studious they've been about what's going on and you know especially our planner I mean kudos to her because she has keep kept on the size and I can't talk about it okay what I mean
>> no I just the planner is Katherine Sarmat I'm just >> yes yes she's been fantastic shout out, you might as well mention their name. >> She She's on it. She knows everything. I'm so impressed. And if the zoning board listens to her, they will agree it's too big for the lot. Um and it would cause, you know, significant harm
to the community. But that's not for tonight. Um, but be aware that this master plan that calls for Bridgewater to, you know, protect and preserve farmsteads and to uh protect and encourage, you know, the the garden nature of our of our of our township and
the and the beautifification of our township and to keep residential neighborhoods free from truck traffic and those kinds of things are are in jeopardy. And um I hope that you pay attention and watch the zoning board hearing. Um, >> we're not permitted to. >> Oh, you're not allowed to watch.
>> Interesting. >> We're not permitted to. >> We serve potentially as a uh a as an appeal to something on the zoning board. So, while we are certainly able to be aware of it, we are actively discouraged
from attending, watching, or being intimately familiar with cases on the zoning board. And Mr. Corsini, you know, like like we need to we need to have a separation because we may be called upon for any
case in front of the zoning board to uh to to to serve as as as an as an appeal body. >> I maybe you want to watch the evening news then. I mean, I'm I'm interested in this because I I have attended zoning board
meetings, so I want to make sure I'm not doing something I shouldn't. >> I'm loathed to disagree with Council, but you can absolutely go to zoning. >> Yeah, I I've been to one and I spoke to the um lawyer that's on the zoning board at commission and um when we took a break and he just said, "As long as I
don't publicly comment on anything, >> I mean your residents also, this affects you." So, but >> well, but but while we're asking, you've been to several of the zoning board meetings or all of the zoning board meetings for this case. >> I went to I didn't know about the first one, but I went to the last three and I
was sworn in and I gave testimony in the fourth. >> Okay. All right. >> Feel free to watch. >> Well, no, I I I just I just wanted to know because I'm sure I would assume that during those hearings, uh discussion, thorough discussion was held about access to that property. And, you
know, I'm I'm sure that was discussed. >> It was. and I played video and I gave picture testimony. >> Okay, >> I can't talk. >> I think maybe Yeah, maybe we ought to just >> real quick >> any further on this >> one unreal quick comment for regarding the accident. I don't know anything
particular about Friday's accident, but I have seen many accidents over my 30 plus years in EMS. I will tell you today when you see cars sometimes you look at a car and you say you don't know how somebody survived. Cars today are actually designed on the outside to
crumble to protect the compartment where passengers ride. So from a car safety point of view today, cars will crumble a lot more on the outside than they used to. >> And I but I don't know anything particular about Friday's accident. >> I'm telling you if someone had died, it
would have been in the paper. So I don't think anyone died, but it was serious. >> Um I think I went over my three minutes, but um that was what I wanted to say. And um thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Does anyone else want to address the council?
>> Seeing no one, I move to close open public comment. >> I'll second. All in favor? >> I >> I. >> Madam President, I'd like to make a motion to modify the agenda and move item 12 prior to item 10.
>> All in favor? >> Oh, I need a second. >> Second that. >> All in favor? >> I >> Okay. Um, so we're on item 12. We're going to do these by consent. Uh, authorizing the refund of sewer overpayment for the property located at
754 Route 202 Bridgewater, New Jersey 08807. Do I don't need Do I need a roll call for that? Is there any discussion on it? >> Uh, could we just uh get some um more background information of the nature of the overpayment? It was [clears throat]
incorrectly build to uh business there and it's a full refund. >> Do we know how much it is? >> Yes. $6,890 relative to the sewer year 2025 according to the paperwork in our packet. >> Okay.
>> Do we know the root cause of this kind of error? And does this happen often? >> No, this does not happen often. This was uh an error. the uh the the owner of the mall should have been built and this is a new business and they you know by
error which we think we've corrected this occurred and should not occur again. >> Okay, great. Thank you. >> My first time for a sewer one in six years sitting here. >> Okay, good. [snorts] I have a roll call. >> Need a motion first. >> I think I did I have Didn't we do the
motion? Oh, no. We did a motion to move to the resolution. >> I'll move it. Can I have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Can I have a roll call? >> Councilman Becko. >> Yes. Council >> woman Isla. >> Yes. Councilman Kersh. >> Yes. >> Councilman Ring.
>> Yes. >> President Geger. >> Yes. B. Appointment of the Bridgewater Raritan Youth Services Commission. Kirsten Foresight. Would you like to uh address the council? You don't have to, but if you want to, we're we're happy to have you.
>> No. Okay. Mayor, you already made some comments. I don't know if you want to comment any further. I think you >> Yeah, I think I the council has any questions. I um uh as as council knows, I haven't moved uh you know, a lot of appointments. This one I feel very strongly about and I think that this is
a wonderful opportunity for um us to um bring on somebody who has a I said a passion and um uh where we could turn a a tragic situation into one that um is a
brings good to the public. Um, and uh, I feel very strong and very um, uh, I would say excited that that we have an opportunity to work with Kristen and and get her involved. >> Can I have a motion to >> Yeah, I I just wanted to add a little
comment. I don't think you remember me, but when I worked at J&J, we would go over to Redstone quite often, the big groups with the 40 so people. So, thank you for everything you you did for us and thank you for joining.
Can I have a motion? >> So moved. >> Second. I'll second. Um, can I have a roll call? >> Councilman Bako? >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Isla? >> Yes. >> Councilman Kush? >> Yes. >> Councilman Ring? >> Yes. >> President Gger? >> Yes. Congratulations.
>> Congratulations. >> And thank you for offering to serve, for stepping up. >> We will um the uh clerk will reach out to you with regard to uh paperwork for you to to sign. um you can come in and and do that and then you'll get on the
list for um you know getting the information you need and we'll get you all acclimated and ready to go. Right. Great. Thank you. >> Okay. A resolution amending resolution number 260507125 to revise the date for the Somerset
County Park Commission fireworks display from July 3rd, 2026 to Friday, July 7th, 2026. I believe it was canceled >> 17th. I'm sorry. July 17, 2026. That's important so people know. It's July 17,
2026. Is there any discussion? >> I think if we don't do this, there'll be tens of thousands of people upset with us. So, I will move it. >> I will I will second it. U with the comment that I will not be attending the fireworks. It's >> I won't either, but >> very hot and very crowded and very
buggy, but otherwise it is great fireworks. Um, can I have a roll call, please? >> Councilwoman Bako. >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Isla. Yes, Councilman Kersh. >> Yes, >> Councilman Ring. >> Yes, >> President Geger. >> Yes. And moving on to D. Award of
contract to Pave Wright, Inc. 40 Ray Avenue, Bridgewater, New Jersey 08807 for the Philip and David Miller Park Basketball Improvement Project in the amount not to exceed $133,55.50. Mayor, I'm going to ask you um if you
would just briefly explain the work that's being done. I've seen it so I have an idea but for people um watching the tape or in the audience they might not know exactly what's going to be done there. >> Yeah. For those you know um who are familiar with the the park that is the the courts that are there um they will
be uh redone. So it'll be uh actually good surface to play. So uh we'll do that. There'll be improvements with regard to the um uh I think the parking >> yeah lighting will be done as well. So that way um you know it's more opportunities for people to play and it's going to be a real nice uh a real
nice opportunity there. So >> I think sometimes it floods there and that's going to be fixed too. >> Yeah. As part of that all the lands you know all the um when you go into the drainage and all the you know engineering that goes with it it's not just going in simply paving the you know paving the court it will be redone so that way um it has a you know it's a
proper court and property moving forward in future. >> What's the time frame? Yeah, I mean this year, I mean, as soon as we get this approved, we want it done. We were we were hoping to get it done in time for uh the backpack giveaway. I don't think that's likely, but um uh we want to get it done as you
know, soon as we can. So, >> probably going to have to delay the work until after the backpack giveaway so that >> it's not I'll do whatever Eric wants, but I think if I tell him that we're delaying start this project, uh I think he'll he'll dodge uh you know, pavers if he has to. So,
>> okay. Um, can I have a motion? >> So moved. >> I'll second. Can I have a roll call, please? >> Councilman Beco, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Isla, >> yes. >> Kersh, >> yes. >> Counciloman Ring, >> yes. >> President Gger, >> yes. All right. So, that brings us back
to the public hearing and final action ordinances. Uh, this is 10 A. So, a bond ordinance providing an appropriation of 4,25,000 for emergency radio communications system in and by the township of
Bridgewater in the county of Somerset, New Jersey, and authorizing the issuance of 3,994,750 bonds or notes, bonds up or notes of the township for financing part of the appropriation.
Um, with respect to this, I think we're going to have council discussion first and then I'll open it for public discussion. Um, do you have a a pres did we do did you have a presentation for it? >> The only I mean >> the breakdown of the >> Yeah, we do have the breakdown um and we
can pass those down for anybody who wants it. Um, you know, I know that there was um there was discussion at the last meeting um and at the council's been aware of this issue in general, but I will just like to make a few quick comments and I would note that um uh
former councilman Alan Cordilla is here and who who may be the expert on this uh you know um along with you see some of our first responders in the audience of course our our um our police command staff. But just as a reminder for the council, for any of the public who's not familiar, who may be watching with this
issue, um there has been uh changes or is being changes kind of forced upon us with regard to the radio system um such that our first responders, whether they be fire, rescue, police, anybody who
uses first responders, um our radios won't work starting in January. uh you know somebody back here can uh can speak more uh technically on this. Um Jim Edwards is here our um coordinator and so this is one of these issues where um
if we want to be able to respond to fire, EMS, police, public works emergencies, anything. Um our first responders need these radios. This is not something that we have decided um as kind of a you know we just want to
upgrade because we think it's time to upgrade. This is a um as close to a dire um emergency as we get in terms of being able to provide emergency services to uh
our public. Um, so what is um before the council is a bond ordinance that um would uh cover all the needs of our first responder community. Now, the council may of course be aware that um
our our fire districts um do have, you know, they're um they separately tax, you know, we're not we don't um and the township we don't provide for um fire. However, in discussion over probably two
years or more looking at this issue, I'm trying to figure out how to resolve it. Do we have what we the options are um to have the fire departments districts all go out and separately bond um purchase radios doesn't make any sense. Financially doesn't make any sense
because we can get better deals by doing it in one time. There's less cost for the bonding that goes with it overall. Um, and at the end of the day, um, it's still the same group of, you know, other than wanting to to, um, you know, have a
typical government argument about whose, uh, budget it comes out of, the reality is is that it's this, it's literally the same taxpayers. Um, and so this is the most efficient way of providing um, you know, for these radios as opposed to us just telling the fire districts to all
fight amongst you know, fight for themselves. Um so that is what is being proposed here. Um and the breakdown's been given in terms of you know the the radios um where they would be distributed, how that would be broken up between the fire districts, the fire
departments um you know and uh the first responder community. So um and I would note also just as a as a reminder to everybody um while fire districts do have taxing power through the fire commissions, our volunteer rescue squads
do not. uh they are not supported by anybody other than the generous donations of the public. Uh we do give a little bit of money. The fire directors might give a little bit of money, but the bottom line is that they're um they're not getting um money directly through taxation to fund their their
budgets. That's largely coming from their work and the generosity of um the public. So they are probably in the worst shape overall of any of the organizations about what are they going to do about these radios. Um and uh so we're asking uh the council to um to
move forward with this so that we can get the radios um get the money set for the orders, get this moving. And um the other aspect to keep in mind here is that the um uh because we're not the only department or
only town dealing with this. There's also a concern of making sure that we get in our orders. We can't wait until November to say give us all the radios. We have to get them. We have to get them set up. we have to make sure they're working. So, there is also a timing concern there. So, um this would be done through state contract. So, that helps
the process. We don't have to go through some of the same um rigamroll as if we were going out for completely on our own. And the last thing I'd like to add is we are continuing to pursue funding sources. Um Rob uh deputy administrator
Field has been working um with um you know, our federal elected officials, with Senator Kim's office, with Congressman McCain's office. um you know working to see if there's federal money available. I know councilman ring uh and council have been working through when when council was on to council. Um so we
are still pursuing other sources of money to help cover and offset these costs and if we get that we will certainly uh of course um you know continue to pursue that but in the meantime um this is a something that we need to move forward with.
>> So um I have a lot of comments. First of all, um, anyone who watched the last meeting, um, I created an ad hoc committee of Councilman Bucko and Councilman, um, Kersh to look into a different bond issue. And then
Councilman Kersh came back to me and said, "Well, you know, I'm looking into this issue. Somebody has to look into the bond issue, the 4.2 million dollar um, issue," which was his way of saying, "Okay, Joan, this is your project." So, um, thank you.
>> We we worked together. >> We did. We did. I learned a lot. >> Yeah. Thank you. I learned a lot. Um, in terms of this particular handout, just so the public knows, it's
a breakdown of the 4.2 million. Um, and I'm going to ask, can this be made more public so that the public can see it, too? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, and I I don't I'm not I don't want to be I don't want to criticize anyone, but this is the kind of thing that um is really helpful if we have it
more in advance. And to that end, I want to compliment the chief, Chief Mitsac. I also want to compliment Lieutenant Edwards and Officer Grime, Officer Grim. Um I met with them and I met with um the
town administrator Papis, I think it was last week. Uh, I want to say the police department was 100% prepared. Officer Grim, I mean they were 100% prepared. They were able to answer every question that I had and they were able
to really give a full breakdown as far as the police department was concerned and I have a lot of confidence that um, Officer Grim and Lieutenant Edwards are really on top of this. Okay. Um, and I want to add a couple things that I learned from that meeting. one, if we
pass the bond uh at this meeting, there's about a 99.99% insurance assurance that we will have the radios on time. I'm an attorney. I will never give you 100% guarantee of anything, right? Um >> other than taxes and death.
>> That's true. Um but the goal is to have them earlier to allow for setup and better pricing. Okay, so that's the goal. Um there are if there are ancillary costs they would be very minimal. The county will pay for the
programming. So that that was very helpful. Um I'm not 100% clear on who pays for the programming for the fire and rescue, but I believe that will also be paid for by the county. Does anybody know? >> My understanding is the county is not
paying for the programming. the county is actually increasing the number of vendors that they authorize to do the programming for a fee. Um, so the county what happens is when a radio is
purchased, that radio comes in, that model number has to be programmed into the county system that gener it's a radio ID. My understanding is that the county is paying for that >> that they do, but then that radio has to
go to a third-party vendor who actually programs in all of the frequencies and makes the radio operational. >> So, so there are going to be some costs. I don't I don't know if they're listed here. >> Lieutenant Edwards is willing to come up.
>> Hi, good evening. Yeah, the quotes all include all programming and installations. So the uh their state bid price we deal with one vendor um and just double check and the quotes include all programming and installation services. So it is a very complex process.
>> So if a radio cost $6,500 that 6,500 includes that that the portion of the program that Councilman Ring was talking about. >> Correct. There is a it's very complicated because county communications and the trunking radios are very complicated. I think perhaps what we're talking about is the
>> radio >> county programming aspect of it. There's programming in the channels, but then Somerset County has unique identifiers for every radios, which is one of the safety systems that are built in. So if I click my radio right now, it should say Edwards. So if I were unable to speak, they would know that I was
clicking the radio. And every radio gets programmed with a unique identifier, if that makes sense. >> Yeah. And you have to have you have to have a radio ID that the serial number had the county has to load that into the system otherwise you'll get bonked every
time you key that radio. It prevents somebody from gaining access that should not have access to those channels. >> And since you're here, I'll let you confirm or or tell me I'm wrong. Um, so
it the bond itself it talks about a 10-year time frame for the lifespan um of the radios, but it's my understanding that the the general feeling is is that these radios will probably last a fair amount longer than that. That it
>> depends on the manufacturer, but generally 10 years is a fair assessment. So for example, the police department, our radios are 10 years. They're out of warranty, out of serviceable life. So they're they're nearing the end of their life. We're hanging on by a thread. Some of the and the goal going forward would
be to set up a program on a rotating basis probably seven years down the road to start replacing some of these. But however they accomplish that, the individual agencies. But what this bond ordinance does is it kind of does a shared service where we're providing radios for police, uh the fire
districts, and for the EMS agencies. um it gets everybody um with new radios and gets everybody the ability to communicate with each other which is one of the things we talked about uh Madame President is interoperability which is a I'll throw out some key words from emergency management it's interoperability we have shared service
and one of the things that we're being told in emergency management is to think about the township. So, we're we're like the mayor said, we're sharing the load among all the taxpayers as opposed to the individual fire districts um and so on. And and the rescue squads obviously have uh private funding. They don't get
government funding except for our small stipend. >> Okay. >> Interoperability was something that actually came out of the 911 commission and is been identified. It's critical. >> Remember that >> interoperability end of life means the manufacturer doesn't support it. So
their radio may work, but if it breaks tomorrow, they can't necessarily get it fixed. So, so you could go well past 10 years depending upon, you know, does that officer not drop his radio? There a lot of different factors into it. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Um, I don't know who I should
address this question to, but um, thank you for this breakdown. Uh, and I know the public hasn't seen it yet, but like the model numbers are there for a lot of them. Some of them just say mobile, portable radios, and accessories. And then the pricing per unit is also very
different. So for example um for almost double the number um again different models for the police department you're paying around the same amount for like Martinsville volunteer fire department and then in North Branch for four
quantity of four you're paying almost $270,000 but it's it looks like it's for a car van SUV. There's different. There's portables, there's mobiles. Portables are cheaper than mobiles. >> Okay. >> And we're dealing uh the fire
firefighters have different needs. So, some of a lot of our firefighters go into uh adjoining counties which have different radio systems. So, the cost is a little bit higher because they need dual band. >> Um I'm not the radio, but yeah, UHF versus VHF. And that's a more expensive basically doubles the price of the
radio. >> Yeah. >> Our police officers, we're all on uh VHF, so we don't need dualband radio. So that's why our portables per unit are cheaper. Um >> and it's not even >> and then some of the fire departments and rescue squads. This bond also covers
um base stations for the ability for them to dispatch and communicate with themselves from their stations. Mobile radios for their apparatus. Mobile radio was the radio that's in the car. These are portable radios. Um so >> we were trying to just the quotes were pages and pages long. So we're trying to
oversimplify things. So, this provides for the fire and EMS to um kind of fend for themselves and dispatch and communicate amongst themselves. Gives them the equipment to set them up to succeed. >> Yeah, that's great. >> It's also important to note though too, we talk about the county system. We have
Warren, Wong, and Franklin that come to mind that actually do not use the county. They have their own radio systems that the municipalities spend large amounts of money to maintain. So like our fire department, you know, they go mutual aid into Warren, it's a different radio system than the rest of
Somerset County. So that to to Lieutenant's point, you know, they they need more complex radios. >> Yeah. As long as it meets their needs, you know. Yeah. Thank you. >> I didn't say it made sense. >> I know. I know. Just >> But Warren,
>> that's what it is, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I have a quick question. uh the for council um Chris I'm am I correct that you know this is um ultimately still you know the bond ordinance that uh the final equipment purchase will still come back in front of the council or is there
anything unique about this that um changes that >> so the procurement would still council either by state contract or bid >> right okay that and and yeah I want to make sure I was I was right about that so >> my conversation with administrator Papis today is that some of a couple of units
may have already been purchased >> right >> yeah through the vast majority. >> That's one one of the questions I have because I understand district three purchased but yet they still have stuff on here. >> Yeah. And and I wanted to just point out that is that for for council you know we
have the the breakdown here but I just you know there's no problem making it public but just keep in mind that you know between now and the time that actually gets purchased it's possible that somebody comes back and says that you know we actually need 22 radios some anybody in the audience don't don't increase your requests guys. Uh but um
but theoretically I mean you know this is what we estimated as it's possible by the time the final order gets in that it could be we need two radios rest somewhere less somewhere or two radios more um so this is not a locked in stone number >> clarify something councilman ring said
uh one district three uh from the fire department that's green all country hills and north branch they were proactive and ahead of the curve so they've um obtained some of their own equipment and so the ask is a little bit different for them. For example, I think null is not looking for anything for their fire company, but Country Hills
and North Branch, which are part of District 3 and servicing the township, they have uh some equipment that they're still looking for. So, that's why it's not the same as some of the other uh agencies. >> Gotcha. I appreciate that supplement. >> Madam President, >> can we take a deeper dive here? I'm
sorry if you were still speaking. um don't need an answer tonight, but I think with Country Hills and North Branch, I'd like to know Country Hills and North Branch are unique in out of all the organizations on here in that they serve both Bridgewater and
Branchburg. And I just want to make sure that we're not absorbing 100% of that cost and that Branchburg is doing something similar to support those organizations. Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and say we're not because they're ask, for
example, Country Hills is for eight uh mobile portable uh radios as opposed to, you know, 20 or 30, which one of the other agencies is looking for 54 portable radios. So, I think we're they're sharing sounds like they're sharing the service in District 3 has already absorbed some of these costs. >> District 3 has
>> uh br Yeah. >> And Bridgewater is, but what is Branchburg doing for Country Hills and North Branch? >> It's a good question. Okay. >> And I don't need that answer tonight, but I would like to know that before we award a contract.
>> All right, Madam President, if I could take a deeper dive here because I I I think this is a very important point to understand. So, first of all, I support this purchase 100%. Um, but I think some of the devil is in the details. I am concerned about what's gone on with this
pre- purchase in District 3. um because those who those taxpayers who live in district three um already through their fire district kind of paid for their own solution or at least part of their own solution. Now we're going to ask the voters of the entire township including
district 3 which is a vast swath of the town to now pay for the overall solution. So, it feels to me like unless there's some kind of equitable solution figured out here, the voters or or the residents, the taxpayers of District 3
are paying far more than their fair share because they are essentially going to pay some amount of the whole solution that does not include the part that they already paid for. So, you know, they're kind of double paying here. Um, so I
again, I don't I'm not going to stand in the way of this. Um, but I I think it's not a small point that especially because of the size of district three. Um, and of course the complication that has just been raised about the fact that I guess two of the, you know, two of the
companies are in other towns. Yeah. I guess what I want to make sure is that this this this is being shared equitably as it should. That as a community, we are we are paying for what all of our
first responders need, but that we don't have a situation where at the end of this exercise, oh, by the way, if you're in district three, you kind of paid a little too much. So, I I you know, I don't know how that's going to get resolved. Um, but I I I to me it's not
it's not an asterisk. It's it's an important point because, you know, each of these each of these line items is is, you know, a couple hundred,000. You know, I mean, if at the end of the day it was like, all right, well, this resident paid 12 cents more than that resident, you know, it would it I I
wouldn't really have a leg to stand on. But when we're talking about a couple hundred thousand here, I I don't think that's 12 cents. I I I sense it's more. And I just want to say I share those concerns. I just share the concern of it just seems to me that all the fire districts should be treated um equally.
And maybe there's a little bit of a difference here because Country Hills and North um North Branch we Branchburg needs to contribute to that too. And I we're looking at you but you're not the person that is responsible for this. So you just happen to be standing at the
podium. But I you know I just want to I do want to acknowledge that I share that concern. I I raised it last time. Um and I I think >> that shouldn't stand in the way of making the purchase, but I think when we ultimately figure out transfers back and
forth and and and whatnot. >> Listen, I'm in District 3. I wholeheartedly agree. >> I think that is up to the residents of District 3 to take that message to the board of fire commissioners. I don't think it's our problem. They chose to go out and do it ahead of time on their
own. And there may be some reasons. I've heard different stories and I don't want to speculate whether it's true or not, but um I don't think that that's our problem. >> I I I look at it differently. I I look at it as potentially a problem of districts 1, two, and four where they
need to go to back to their constituency and go back to their voters um and explain that over even if it's a couple year period to pay it back to to to get to get to equity, they need to budget for it.
One way or another, I I think it's important to get to equity and whether there's some there's some kind of payment that comes out of one, two, and four, or if there's some sort of a of a credit or or money back or something into district 3, some somehow we need to get to an even playing field. >> Here's my recommendation, Mr. Kers, to
to the administration was that for this project, Bridgewater Township retains ownership of these radios. It's not uh they're going to be issued to the fire companies in district 1, two, and three, and four and into the EMS agencies. They're not going to be given to them. So, these radios will maintain be
maintained or be owned, excuse me, by Bridgewater Township. That's our recommendation. U but you have an excellent point about the uh other fire districts not being ahead of the curve. But let me just say fair to say that this project had a lot of communication issues along the way. This is the mayor
mentioned I think three years ago this started and uh it probably could have been you know communicated a lot better earlier on down the line. So I applaud district 3 for trying to get ahead of the curve and taking care of it. But uh what we're asking for tonight is to uh
deliver you know communication equipment to the emergency services unit in Bridgewater Township and to everybody. Then then perhaps the solution is that if we own it, we pay for all of it and then a credit some amount is given back to district 3 just so that again we're on that even playing field.
>> We can get some more information in terms of you know because district 3 is a little bit unique for a couple reasons. You know one of it I think it is uh it's the largest fire district. They have the most funding. So I think they're probably the most um uh financially independent of the Yeah. I mean they're
just the largest. I mean they just have the bigger the you know the biggest budget I believe of the other three. They also have the component of Branchburg which um you know I don't know to what extent Branchburg has or has not uh participated. So I think what we can do again ultimately because uh
one the ultimate purchase and then distribution is still going to have to come back in front of the purch to come back in front of the council. We have another opportunity to obviously look at exactly what's being purchased and how it's being um you know given out. Um, and uh, in the meantime, we can look at
a couple of these issues. Um, I don't know that we'll ever get the perfect parody necessarily, but we can certainly look at different solutions to make sure that and get the answers to your questions about like, well, how much is, you know, what has district 3 paid already? What have they invested? What is that impact? We actually know, hey,
what is if there's a a double payment somewhere? We do know what we're talking about with regard to the impact on residents and to what extent we need to um, you know, address it. So, we can we can get those concerns. I don't know if we'll get the perfect parody, but we could definitely >> And I'm not asking for a perfect parody.
I'm I'm asking for our greatest effort possible to make sure that everybody pays for radios once and nobody pays for them more than once. >> Yeah. >> And I agree. I I I just want to make it very clear that I agree with that. Um I just think fair is fair. Let's be fair.
You know, fair is fair. Um and we need to just bear that in mind. Um, and I guess the other thing I would say is, um, I I get how complicated this was, and I'm not I'm not criticizing anyone, but I think one of the things we're all
realizing is we all got to make a we we all have to make as much of an effort as we possibly can to stay on top of these because there's a multitude of issues. I don't I'm I'm looking at the mayor and I'm I'm looking at uh town administrator Papis the to-do list and I'm I'm looking
this way too because the to-do lists are pretty long. >> Um >> and and we did confirm, by the way, just now, we'll get the breakdown, but Branchburg did um give money towards all of its um >> uh for radios, but we I don't know specifically as we're sitting here what that breakdown was as to how much went
to district three versus its other u its other fire and EMS. So, but they did something um some money into their first responding community and >> and I just want to comment too on the grant money. Um it is I just it is quote
more likely than not that we will get the grant. No guarantee. Okay. But the assumption it we are very hopeful that we will at least get some of this reimbured. So that will that will definitely help the taxpayers. And right
now, we're not spending $4.2 million. We are spending enough money to float the note to buy the note um and pay the the cost of the note that will last for about a year. Well, we're waiting to see
what we get from the bond money, from the grant money, and that won't be any sooner than October, the end of October perhaps. Okay, that's deputy um administrator Field just said it won't be any sooner than the end of October. It probably won't be much before the end
of the year or the beginning of next year because we're dependent on Congress potentially for that grant and we won't probably won't have that money before then. Um and I just want to ask you are current radios for and I know you can only speak for the police department but the
current radios are at or about the end of their lifespan >> for the police department? >> Yeah. And the needs for the fire and EMS are because of changes being made to the county radio system. Um and so they need to go to a different band and and upgrade those radios, >> right? From like what 400
to 700. >> So >> and now everybody will be able to talk to each other better because we'll all be on the same they'll all be on the same band. >> Not on the same band. We'll have the same ability to communicate. We have an interoperability channel so we can talk to each other if we need.
>> And then um I want you to answer this question. um one resident um questioned me as to why can't we why can't everybody use their cell phones and I I thought that deser I mean I I think there's a perhaps you can explain that
better than I could explain it I get it but >> you know so our trunking radios or portable radios they give this ability if if some county dispatches a message right now everybody on the radio can hear it if you use your cell phone you know you'd have to you can't do that realistically
From a safety standpoint, I mentioned the um each radio is programmed with a unique identifier. Uh as I understand it, for the firefighters, any interior firefighter by NFPA, what is it? National Fire Protective Yeah. standards has to have a portable radio on with a
unique identifier and a man what they call a man down button, which is a a button on your radio. If something happens, you can't speak. You know, under a fire, you'd have your a self-contained breathing apparatus. You press the button and it has that unique identifier and helps to locate you in an emergency. That's a, you know, safety feature, but they're required.
>> They have to be fireproof, too, right? Or fire retardant. >> Fire radios are designed for >> intrinsically safe >> temperature and also intrinsically safe. And you read anything about cell phones, they tell you, you know, avoid the heat. >> And to that point, you have an
emergency. Oh, let me dial 911 versus I can hit a button. Lieutenant, when we when >> when everyone gets updated to the uh fancy radios, does that mean that um Martinsville Fire Department no longer needs to blow the horn as the method of letting people know that they're
>> for the fire commissioners? Uh but I understand the question. >> Anybody from Martinsville's listening? I'm only joking mostly. >> Whistle though. >> Madam President, just a couple things. I I want to just make sure that I heard you correctly on the police side. We are
at the end of the lifespan. >> Correct. >> So, this is fairly good timing. >> Yes. >> How about on the other side? Um, did we get our relative lifespan out of existing equipment or did we leave a lot of tread on the tires for >> the police department?
>> No. For for any of the other >> We don't own >> We don't know. >> We don't own >> But again, >> we don't own those. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> And they're they have to go to a different type of radio. So, >> no, I understand what my question. I'm just trying to understand the timing seemed good on the fire on the on the
police side. >> Yes. >> On the fire, EMS and DPW side to the extent that they have communication equipment. >> Did we get our money's worth there or unfortunately did the timing result in leaving a lot on the table? >> Speak to again the police department
where the timing is right because our expenses right now and our cost to repair these radios are astronomical because Motorola stopped servicing them. But Officer Grim is doing a great job trying to piece them together and get us across the finish line. This is going to give us uh restore service, radio
service for DPW, which will allow them their trucks to communicate better in storms, allow law enforcement uh and DPW to talk to each other. Uh and again, the fire and EMS, I can't speak to their individual inventories, but I do know that, you know, this is going to get them to the right system on Somerset
County. So theoretically, I think it's December 31st, Somersault County is shutting down the trunking system that exists now and these new radios are needed. >> In part, Councilman Kersh, I can answer part of your question because actually when PD got these radios that they have
now was at the time the migration from Bridgewater Dispatch to County Comm. There are portables that Bridgewater had that they owned at that time, dualband portables that were then reissued
to EMS agencies as part of the migration from township to county dispatch. So, at least on the EMS side, I will tell you that they've gotten more than their lifetime out of those radios side. Yeah, I'm happy to hear
that because at some point some taxing authority or some taxpayer paid for these things and and I just want to make sure even though we can't control it that hopefully we got as much life as we could and now we'll get as much life out of this new system. >> The district three used to maintain
their own radio system. So when we talked about Warren watch District 3 had a whole another separate system um that was nearing its end of life. I understand. I don't know that for a fact. So, >> all right. And and then just one just one final comment. Um you know, there
was there was uh commentary before about the $4.2 million grant. Um and we're going to discuss this as as probably part of the bonding conversation for uh 10 C and you know what what we've bonded and what we have capacity for. You know,
unfortunately, you know, an IOU for $4.2 2 million is terrific, but until we have it in hand, we have to we have to anticipate that we may be on the hook for 4.2 million. And to the extent that that impacts our our bonding capacity for other things until
we get a check for all or some of that money, we have to presume it's encumbered. So, Lieutenant, I'm going to ask you to stay here if you don't mind because we're I think we're going to have a public comment session section.
Um, so if anybody has questions from the public that you can answer better than we can, which I assume that would be true for a lot of the questions, uh, you're here. You're still here. So, uh, can I have a motion to open this to the public dis for public discussion? Um
just just one uh just >> okay sorry >> one item before we we we do that. Um the the question was asked about well could cell phones be an alternative and cell phones rely on being able to communicate with a cell phone tower um
which we saw after um >> 911 >> Sand uh after prolonged power outages some of the cell phone towers just stopped working and I I if you don't know the answer to
this. Um, that's okay. I'm not expecting you to. But do you know if the radios work pointtooint as in, you know, you broadcast from your radio and the all the other radios pick up that particular broadcast or does it go back to a central uh
the central system and then >> trunking radio system. So it I don't know if it does do that, but if I key the microphone, it finds the closest Somerset County tower. uh off the top of my head, you know, uh Mount Prospect Road has one and there's I think 10 or 15 throughout the Miller Lane and it
finds the closest radio tower retransmits it from there which goes back out to the radio. >> Now, it just said Miller Lane. We were talking about the Hawkw Watch earlier. There there's multiple towers throughout the county. >> Okay. Okay. But >> so it's not it's not pointtooint on the
radio, it's pointto tower to point. So it still it still relies on on a a base station somewhere to work. >> I don't know if it's actually a base station but a tower >> tower tower. >> But you know to that point the reason I
mentioned Miller Lane when he talked about Mount Prospect is the border of Washington Valley Road with Pluckin and then you also have one right off of us. Like there >> a tower does there's overlap in tower coverages >> in [clears throat] a good portion of the area.
Understood. Thank you. >> Is there any further council discussion? >> Can I have a motion to open this to the public? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay. Um all in favor? >> I. >> So members of the public wishing to address council on this issue. We'll
have three minutes to speak which may be extended in the discretion of the council president. An additional minute will be allotted for responses to comments from the deis. Would anyone like to address this issue? Mr. Cordilla, it's a pleasure to see you again.
>> Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here, Council President. Sitting and listening to the discussion, it's it's something that I've lived with for a very, very long time. You're getting into a world with fire departments and emergency services
where, as I mentioned at the the last time I spoke, your head spins because you don't get straight. The answers are always convoluted. But what I will say is the importance of this. 49 years ago, June 30th, 1976, Sterling
Converting burned down, 300,000 square foot building and I was the fire chief. At that time, there was one radio, one frequency. >> Wow. >> The assistance that we had uh in
communicating that night was from the Bridgewater Police Department. I believe Captain Vorhees at that time uh reached out to officer Jimmy Atfield. He's shadowed me during that event for two days. We had two radios. We had the
high band fire radio and I had a police officer with a radio who could then take our concerns, go to the dispatch center in Bridgewater and get things done. So any way you look I look at it this is a
the radios we have today is a major improvement over what we had at that time and what we're going to be talking about and hopefully funding tonight will be address a major improvement over what we currently have. you know, we we talk
about pointtooint with cell phones and cell towers with the time I spent with the county uh with OEM, you know, with the I think there's five five cell towers I think Tim around the county and there were dead spots and so forth and a
significant amount of time was spent in upgrade working with the towers and checking soft spots and so on. And I know with the uh current radios, a lot of work has been put in to correct that. Uh Miller Lane was where the Miller Rain
Miller Lane tower is where Bridgewater used to dispatch from to the east end of the township. The problem was the phone cable that provided signal to that was an old phone uh Bell telephone lead
cable and it used to get water in it. And I I'll find the article where I got called to the mayor's office because I complained the mayor thought that I was complaining about dispatching and all I was trying to say we got a bad we have a bad connection and it turned
out that yeah the mayor mayor Dowin finally did reach out to Bell Telephone and they did replace the cable. So there's a lot of history with this. There's a lot of history with the fire districts speaking and trying to work this out and I'm the details of it all
I'm not going to go public with but some people cooperate and others don't. So I I ask each of you I commend each of you for your concerns and your questions. I think they're all valid. Uh they truly
are. But it is the when you get into the communication schedule with the programming and the the registering of the radios, I stay away from it because it just gets crazy. You know, as Tim will explain,
you know, we get called into, of course, we have a RIT team. We're called all over the county. We're up in Wong. We're in Warren. We're in Middle Sex. We're all over the place. We got guys walking around with three radios. So this fixes that problem. So I
commend everybody for your thoughts of support. I also commend you for asking questions even though to me the questions are very frustrating because I've lived with them for a very very very long time. And as far as moving forward, I know in
our budget we're going to be working contributing to the capital plan every year. So when we get down the road, we're not in this position again. We can it's a lot easier to do, you know, a $50,000 aotment over time to build up a
fund to replace radios. So, but you know, the the request right now with everything we have going on was just too much to uh too much of a burden. So that's why we're asking for help. And for everybody on on the dis, thank you.
I just want to um ask you when you the the fire that you talked about in the beginning you were I just want to acknowledge you were a volunteer firefighter. You've always been a volunteer >> strictly volunteer. >> Yeah. >> At that time the
>> Thank you for that. >> Looking at that call you grow up fast. You really do. and you realize the significance of being a chief officer with the responsibilities that you have >> and you're amazed at what people will do
when you work as a team. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Albano. >> We do know who you are and we do know where you live. Good evening, distinguished members of
the council. Mr. Mayor, nice to see you again. >> Current neighbor, permanent neighbor. Current neighbor, temporary neighbor. >> Future neighbor. >> That's right. >> Future neighbor. >> Future neighbor. >> Another current neighbor. Yay. >> I can hit his house with a with a
baseball bat. With a baseball. Not Not that I would, but Mr. Tap is learned council of course the esteemed town clerk. My name is Robert Albano.
You know that already. I live on 1149 Papin Road on the corner of Roger Avenue. I think you know that also. Anyway, um want to give you a number. I joined the rescue squad in 2004
and the number I'm going to give you is over 21,000. What does that mean? It's the number of calls that Martinsville responded to in the Martinsville area, the Greenall area, somerville, some Bound Brook, some
Watchung Warren, Bedminster. Communication is absolutely important and communication amongst the fire and police is essential to public safety. Now, why do we need the new radios?
Tell you the truth, I don't know why other than the system has changed. Why did I have to buy a digital television? I don't know why. Except my analog television did not work. Why'd you have to get rid of your flip
phone >> or my flip phone? >> I know. >> I know. Um, so I am in full support of this and I believe you're doing the right thing and spending the money.
Public safety is at what we're talking about. And Allan Padilla told you about what it used to be like. And yes, I was on the squad when we had the old VHF radios, Tim, the handheld
ones that had the dead spots around town. Well, used to be on a tower, but um in where was uh Jamie, where was uh was it in the in Joe's old quarry? Where's the tower that Chip had?
>> Oh, no. On Long uh um Mountaintop >> Logan Road. >> And Lo Yeah, Logan Road. That used to be an old tower on Logan Road. >> Yeah. >> That system worked off of. >> Yeah. Well, anyway, we had problem >> always had phone line problems, too. >> Yeah. Sometimes you'd have to whip out
your cell phone, hopefully at work, but that's not the way you can communicate in the event of an emergency. So, we need the radios. We can't afford them. If we had to buy the radios, we'd sell the building and then we could buy the
radios, but then we'd have no place to dispatch out of. So, I support this and as a taxpayer, I'm willing to pay for it and then some. So, I commend you all for the effort you're putting into it and I thank you
for thinking about it, but we're dealing with public safety. It has to be done. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And I wanted to thank the um especially I know everyone I can't remember who showed up, but like 5:00 a.m. I had an emergency. The
Martinsville Rescue Squad, the police department, the EMT, everyone showed up. It was literally the perfect storm. snow. They shoveled my driveway just to come up. My cell phone regularly never works if people have called me, but your
radios seem to work that night. So, thank you again for saving my life. And um you know, I hope this new technology helps you save even more lives in the future. >> Is there any further comments? >> Seeing no one, I move to close public
comment and move for final action. >> I'll second. All in favor of closing public comment and moving to final action. >> I I >> So, can we have a roll call uh on the approval of the uh bond ordinance for
4.254,25,000? >> Councilman [clears throat] Burko. >> Yes. >> Council Councilwoman Isla. >> Yes. Councilman Kush. >> Yes. >> Councilman Ring. >> Yes. >> President Gger. >> Yes. >> Congratulations. We now will have new radios. Can we take a a short break? No more
than five minutes. >> You're the council president. >> Okay, we're going to take a five minute break. Okay, meeting is resumed. Um, so moving on to 10B, bond ordinance providing an appropriation of 1,900,000
for various road improvements, including but not limited to Country Club Road, Arsley Lane, and Goldfinch Drive, otherwise known as NJ do, FY 2025, Municipal Aid Project, Vanveton
Drive, and South Avenue, otherwise known as NJ do FY20 2024 local transportation projects fund project and Garrettson Road, New Jersey DOT FY2024 safe routes to school district
preliminary engineering including curbing, milling, paving, drainage and other miscellaneous improvements and various road overlays throughout the township in and by the township of Bridgewater in the county of Somerset, New Jersey, and authorizing the issuance
of 1,85,000 bonds or notes. of the township for financing part of the appropriation and it just a comment I'm going to this is going to we're going to do council discussion first and then public discussion but it is my
understanding that um this will we will be receiving grants to um fund this but we have to front the money and then we get paid back is that correct >> correct >> okay any is there any further comment
>> well I mean I'll state that for right now that is sufficient. I think as we go to 10 C in a few minutes we'll give a much more detailed explanation about our bonding condition and how we should be looking at our incumbrances. But I I I think just to advance this part of the
conversation now you've you've hit it on the head. >> Okay. >> It's not it's not free money. It but um it it will be returned to us in in a timely manner. >> We do pay we we I think we have to pay for the note initially. It costs us something, but it's we're getting a lot
for it. >> We get a lot more for what it costs us, >> right? It's not free money, but it's a but it's a huge help. >> Yes. Um, can I have a motion to >> motion to open public comment? >> Okay. Members of the public wishing to
address the council on 10B. No, no, no. >> Oh, sorry. Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I I >> Okay. Members of the public wishing to address the council on any matter on this matter in particular on 10B will
have three minutes to speak which may be extended in the discretion of the council president. An additional minute will be allotted for responses to comment from the deis. Is there any member of the public that would like to address this issue? Mr. Albano, you don't have to sign in.
You're already signed in. Honorable council, I compliment you on your effort, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Administrator, and learned clerk and council. Um, I'm specifically want to talk about the uh the road ordinance.
Several years ago, Pen Road, Papen Road, um, was repaved, did a wonderful job, except the last >> the last part. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I know that you know about it, but I would just like to
see that last portion of the road paved so that the new residents who bought the last house on PPI road can actually use their baby stroller and that um the
original anoriginal owner who lives on the second to the last house on Papen Road can walk on the street because it is so broken up and crumbling. that it is not so good. So, I don't know what you
can do about it, but you're going to spend some money and do a whole bunch of roads, but maybe that job could be completed. >> We're still waiting for the road plan for >> Yeah. So, I was going to say, I don't know if it was commented as I was walking in, but the um what we have, you
know, tonight with regard to 10B is the the roads that we have grant money for. there there's a timing issue with those. Um and I anticipate as part of the larger kind of bonding question that I think Councilman Kersh alluded to with that starts the conversation with 10C
but um you know may continue the administration still intends on proposing uh you know additional road work to be done this year. Um I don't know yet whether that portion of pavement road will be on there but it is something that I can obviously I know my kids can't ride their bikes that I mean that's a really bad section of road. It's not um you know should have been
done when it was done at the time. Um and uh you know so whether that section will get on this year I don't know but um we we do plan on proposing additional road work um you know throughout the town. >> Maybe something could be done temporarily for some of the really bad
ruts in the road. Um >> the potholes. >> Yeah. >> More than you've described more than potholes. >> It's like broken up. It's I mean some sections of that road it's almost um >> nonro. >> Yeah. I mean it's this is like just the whole parch is being torn up. I mean it's not like a pothole or two.
>> It's it's the the gravel is >> Yeah. It's bad, >> you know. >> And unfortunately when it gets to that sometimes it's not as easy just milling and paving because >> you have to do clean up. >> Well, they got and make sure the base >> that's where you get into complete reconstruction and and >> that's exactly what happened with that.
>> Unfortunately, that may be what happens to roads that don't get taken care of. That was one of the issues that when we first did the road plan is trying to avoid situations like this where you have kind of um you know one roads that need to be rebuilt and two almost these orphan pieces of road that now it's a
lot of money for a smaller piece that's not connected to other aspects. At one point I was hoping that we could do it um with when Roger Avenue was repaved something we also stopped um it was done if anybody familiar with the road it has half of it's paved half of it's not like literally from the center line over you
know we stopped doing that with because we partnered with the gas company the water company that when they do that we don't have that occur anymore in Bridgewater we work it out in our plan so that uh we work with them to make sure entire roads get paved so the problem with Roger is that half the road's in okay shape the other half of
the road needs to be redone done. But it's like you'd like to try to do Roger and then Pen at that same time, but Pen needs it probably before Roger will. >> Anyway, no, I remember when the water lines were put in and they paved that half of the road and I'm saying, "Why
isn't the whole thing being done?" Now it is being done that way. Anyway, I appreciate your consideration. I know you will do the best you can. >> Thank you. >> I'll be back. >> Since Mr. Albano has concluded his comments and there's no other members of the public here. I will move to close
public comment and move for final action. >> Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> I. >> Can we have a roll call? >> Councilman Bucko? >> Yes. >> Councilwoman Isla? >> Yes. >> Councilman Kersh? >> Yes. >> Councilman Ring? >> Yes.
>> President Geger? >> Yes. >> All right. Moving on to uh 10 C. bonded ordinance providing an appropriation of 2.5 million for various drainage improvements including but not limited to Spring Run neighborhood area, 1024
Brown Road area, Brown Road/Carter Road area, and other miscellaneous drainage improvements throughout the township in and by the township of Bridgewater in the county of Somerset, New Jersey, and authorizing the issuance of 2,375,000
in bonds or notes for the of the township for financing part of the appropriation. Can I have a well is there any there is there's council a fair amount of council discussion on this I believe >> I yeah I mean I would say that's
probably an understatement that there'll be considerable conversation so I don't know if you want to allow me to lead the conversation for a little bit >> of course of course. Um, first I want to acknowledge um uh the partnership with with Councilman Bucko um the
subcommittee that we formed um in the intervening time since we were here two weeks ago. We we took our charge very very seriously uh including getting to work that night um via email and requesting uh availabilities for meeting that started um you know within hours of
the meeting conversations. I know we spoke while while I was in transit that weekend. Uh, Councilman Buck and I sp have spoken numerous times on this. The highlight is that we had a meeting on July 1st uh that included I'm sure I'm going to forget people, but it included,
you know, Councilman Bucko and myself. It included uh Administrator Papis. Uh I believe it deputy administrator Field was on that call. Uh, I know that it also involved um it also involved our engineer Bill Burr. It involved our um
bond advisor Anthony Verso and our um bond council John Dracoitz. I'm sure I'm forgetting someone. It's not because Oh, Sarah Houseman. Correct. Our CFO is on there. Thank you. Um so we covered two areas. one was um the specific
engineering circumstance um with with uh with these projects. I'd actually like to parking lot that for a moment and really talk about the underlying question of um our bonding situation, our our bonding um uh posture, if you
will. Um, so we held that meeting. Um, and and just to, you know, report out, I know I sent the email to each of you that has all this detail, but for the interest of the public for the recording, anybody who might be hearing us, um, you know, our current state, I'm not going to read the whole thing. I'm
just going to highlight it. Um, we have had a strong reputation as an investment vehicle, Bridgewater Township, and we do have a very strong bond rating right now rated at double A. Um we are certainly mindful of the importance of maintaining a high bond rating and that's why we
took the steps to uh increase our surplus uh for 2026 and presumably that'll be a trend in the coming years too. Um we there there are outer limits and this was one of the biggest things that that we were interested in understanding. There are outer limits
for the amount that Bridgewater can comfortably bond from the investment community standpoint. Um, but considerable capacity, that doesn't mean we're going to use it, but capacity does still exist. Um, Bridgewwater holds $85 million of debt right now. Um, and we
are paying back 4.5 million of principal in 2026. Um, and we have an equalized value, and this is important, of 122.1 billion. And the reason that's important is that feeds some other ratios that I'm going to talk about. So, as far as thinking
about what is our outer limit, >> could you just just repeat that though? We have $85 million. >> $85 million of current debt. >> Okay. And what are we >> paying back four and a half >> in principle >> of principal >> every year or
>> Well, that's the plan for this year. >> Okay. >> Um that's the plan for this year. Um so, and again, I can repeat as many of these numbers as is necessary. I think it is important to to spend the time to really understand this both on the day as you know as well as you know anyone you know
who in the audience here or who who may be watching the recording. Um so municipalities this is a very important point can bond up to 3.5% of their equalized value. In our case that would be $424 million. Um but it
would be highly irresponsible to go anywhere near that. It is instead recommended that bonding remains less than 1% of your equalized value. 1% of 12 billion is roughly 120 million. So that number is certainly an very
important outer limit for us to consider. Our current debt of 85 million is roughly.7% of equalized value. So again, you know, there is that if we were to choose to go to 120, that would give us about a $35
million capacity. Again, not saying for a moment that we would go there. That's sort of that outer limit. The second outer limit to consider is the annual bonding impact because we have a carrying charge. Our our carrying charge
right now is uh roughly 13%. Um, a preferred carrying charge, generally speaking, preferred car carrying charges are going to vary between 10% and 15%. Preferably 10. So, we are between those
numbers, but clearly we're not at the lower end of that number. >> And and by carrying charge, you mean the the interest or just the interest? >> Interest only. >> Okay. >> The interest only. >> It's 13%. It's we're not paying 13% interest. It's 13% of our budget of our
budget. >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 13% of the budget. >> 13% of our budget is going to service debt. >> Sure. Yeah. The interest and principal. >> Okay. All right. So, okay. Interest interest and principal. >> Debt service overall. Yeah. >> Thank you for that clarification. Um, so
again, typically the numbers 10 to 15. So, we're in we're in that number. So, that's good news. We're not at the lower end of the number. We're in the middle part of that number. Um, generally speaking, municipalities that exceed 15% and especially those that tend toward
20% and there are municipalities that do that exhibit what would you consider a troubling behavior that could definitely result in negative consequence as they attempt uh to finance further than that. So if we use that 15% as our outside
number um that would allow us to go up to roughly 100. Um, so by the first measure you could go to 120. By this measure really 100 is kind of the where where where the the warning lights would start to really really flash. And as I
said we're at 85 minus the principle that we're going to pay back. Um, important to note that um, sewer bonding and use of the I bank while part of our full debt structure debt picture not part of these calculations. Um, our current utilization via the sewer
utility, I don't have the exact number, but it is on the low side. I know we're not talking sewer right here. That's why I didn't dive into that. Um, short-term debt that is quickly repaid. And again, we just authorized 1.9 million um is uh
is is uh you know considered, but there's a bit of an asterisk there because we're going to probably pay it back before it becomes or needs to become a long-term note. So again, it's not free money, but it, you know, it's it's it's seen in its context. Um, and
the other comment that I have, and then maybe I I'll stop and see if there are any questions on what I've said so far, see if Councilman Bucko if I might have missed anything. Um, short-term blips, um, as may be needed for what we just did a few moments ago. 4.2 million for
the communication equipment are generally recognized and accepted. um you know, municipalities don't necessarily have an ability to to bond the same x number of million year after year after year. There there can be these instances where we have a $4
million purchase. Um you know, that's going to be maybe not a one-time thing, but certainly we won't have to revisit that for 10 or 15 years. Um so let me um actually let me go one more section and then I'll stop and see if there are any any questions. So the likely reaction to
our potentially exceeding bonding from previous years from a Wall Street perspective, we definitely have the capacity. So there is low likelihood of negative consequence. But with that said, mayor and council will have to decide where is our
comfortable level. And and I just did did some math here uh you know as we were as we were completing our work. Um, we just authorized $8,65,000 of spending. Now, there's two asterisks on that. 1.9 million of that is going to
be replenished very, very quickly. So, if you discount that, we have or or you know, put that in a different bucket. We authorize 6,75,000. >> We only authorized 4.2 million so far, right? >> Well, all right. >> Okay.
>> Assuming we do all three of these. >> Yeah. No, I just I want >> I'm sorry. You're right. I'm sorry. You're correct. >> I just want to be clear in my head. >> You're you're correct. Assuming that we do all three at a point where we do all three, >> um we would be at 8605 8,65,000.
If you put that 1.9 million in in sort of that special bucket, right? >> We still have 6.705 million. Now, there's another asterric though. That's the 4.2 million. Now, the challenge with the 4.2 2 million though is we don't have a check for that. You
know, we have high hope and reasonable expectation, but until we have that money, we don't have that money. >> So, that would put us at at about not counting the 1.9 million, but if you take 85 million and you add to that uh
4.2, yeah, 4.2 and >> well, you also have to subtract the >> but you subtract the principal payment. So, so you know, again, we're we're we're still in an okay range. Well, I shouldn't say that. each of us will have to come to their conclusion. Um, you know, it seems though as though we are
still in a reasonable range, but we are bonding more than we have before. >> We're getting close to, >> you know, you know, we're we're we're getting closer and it bears noting and then and then maybe I'll I'll stop. I I will definitely stop and first ask Councilman Bucko if there's anything I
may have missed or anything that he may have incremental on his notes. I tried to be as thorough as I could, but I'm sure there must there might be something missing. Um, you know, the the critical piece here is, um, you know, we're we're getting closer to having a challenge.
And oh by the way, we have not even had a discussion of the PSEG restoration roadways or the NJ uh American water prep work or even one inch of additional roads as part of our
>> pay for the when the water company digs up the road, the water company does the work. >> But we ha we have a responsibility for part of it. We have according to the document I have here, the NJW coordination prep work. No, if the road company digs up the road.
>> No, no, you're you're talking Apple's ar. So, I think what you're right and Michael's right. Um because we work with the the the water company, the gas company to get more road work >> Yes. >> done >> for some of their projects, we've reached agreements with them with
regards to work that we would do um to to further the road. We want >> credits and stuff. >> Yes. Yes, but but ultimately you know what we if to get these roads paved we we there will be a partial payment that we need to make. Same thing with the PSCG. There will be a certain amount of
money and and in addition any other what I'll just simply call discretionary roads including but not limited to the fact that we had we we decided the council last year decided to cut back on our originally intended 2025 roads program. So, there are some roads that
we committed to last year that we didn't get to. And then there's also a potential list of 26 roads. And of course, each and every day, whether by email or people we see in the supermarket or people we have come to
the day to the to the podium here, each and every day, more more request and more need is coming. I just want to clarify one thing based upon because I know a lot of numbers have been thrown around, but we started at $85 million.
We're going to pay back 4.5. We just agreed to 4.2. So in round numbers, round numbers, we're still at 85. We just then, hold on. We then have 1.9 that we're going to get reimbursed
for these grant projects. So in reality, we're not yet. Yes, there's an impact, but we're not increasing that as Councilman Kersh said long time. So, despite the fact that $6.1 million in bonds were just approved tonight,
when you factor in >> it's not a net, it's right. >> When you factor in we're $4.5 million reduction and the fact that the 1.9 will be reimbured, we're at a net zero. Well, we're in net zero until we take action potentially on two and a half million.
>> No, I understand that. But I just >> Right. Right. But but you know, it bears noting that there will be other needs requests. >> Understood. Um so so by my math um you know even if you kind of take the the
the 1.9 and put it in a special category you know we will be at a plus 6.7 take out the 4.5 or whatever that number is that we're going to pay back you know we do come out even with the 1.9 asterk about a plus 2 million give or take um
you know and and that's without having had a conversation about all these other things. So now that now it's up to each of us, you know, to say that's an acceptable amount. That's not an acceptable amount. We are painted into a corner. We're not painted
into a corner and how we're going to handle future requests. So I did I did I capture like hopefully some high percentage? >> Um yeah, I I believe you you did. Um, I mean I I think the the the
key takeaway is that um the money is not free. Um the the bar borrowing uh now reduces the capacity to to borrow in in the future
obviously and also increases the amount of debt service that we will be committed to paying in in future years. The the question that um all of us need to need to consider and
answer is that what is to to to what you said. What is the level that we're comfortable with? What is the level that is appropriate and what is the level that um fulfills the the needs of the the
members of the community? And I I think that's a that's a key point that you just made about that because part of that the um the analysis is is the one what is the cost on you know what is the impact on the budget each year right so you have capacity the numbers that councilman Kersh mentioned about you know which which under those
numbers about just just talking pure capacity um even assuming we don't get any grant money for the for the for the radios that would still say theoretically we could bond another 11.5 million or 12 million you before you're up to um you know that mad the hundred
number which is already kind of that conservative uh you know range but nobody's suggest you know we're not suggesting that we we do that but the other part of it is the cost of next year or future year's budgets um but I think council bucko it's also the problem that we always have is um you
know uh the being able to provide the services that residents want right we could come back and say you know um we're not going to do more roads this year right that's certainly something that that could be done I don't think that uh that you that that's ultimately
what um you know I won't speak for the council but I mean that's not what we're proposing obviously of course but it's you know that's the challenge is how do you do you come back and say guys hey we don't really want to borrow you know bond an extra little bit of money this year but we're not doing the following 10 roads >> or do we say you know we're going to do
those 10 roads but we also have to do radios and we have to do this other stuff as a result of that there is there's your point there's a cost and you know and that was the >> question is you know at at at what point does the the cost come due. Now, it's um
you know in in the uh sphere of of roads, it comes due if there if we borrow now and and repave roads, well, obviously the the borrowed money comes due when the bonds are due. On the flip
side, if no action is taken, then it comes due when the roads disintegrate to the point of there being nothing left >> and more costly later, >> right? That you know that comes due in a in a different way. But it it is still
uh it is still it is still a bill that has to be paid. Just the question is how how and when uh do we pay it? And I think it's also important to the balancing all of this. You know, I think it's pretty safe to say, Mr.
Papus, that the these proposed uh drainage issues, these are some of the worst of the worst that there's more like if we had an unlimited budget, we could do a lot more work. >> Yeah. And and um if I could real quick
uh I'll speak about the the drainage in a second but kind of from a broader point what um the other aspect we talk about roads a lot because that's the most public facing you know I mean roads is the get best bang for your buck it's the most visible depending on what roads you do you can get the most pardon the
pun mileage out of it. Um, we have a whole host of other things that we haven't done. Now, drainage, we've done some drainage. Drainage projects are tough because they're very expensive and often times, um, it's not like a road where thousands of people throughout the
year are going to be using the road and you can go and say, "Hey guys, here's the road we did." The problem with drainage is expensive and sometimes while it may have a more limited impact, the residents who are impacted can be severely impacted. I mean, it's a one of those things that and so that's always a challenge. You sit there and say, "Do I
spend a million dollars on a project that impacts a small number of households or do I spend a million dollars on roads?" And the answer often times roads, but it gets to a point where we can't ignore those other projects. And so what you have with the the projects are proposed in in 10 C are
projects that uh you know one has been on the um uh you know the the Brown Road uh the two different Brown Road projects that we've been trying to work through certainly I think they were coming before I was on the council. I remember some of these residents coming forward.
We've been trying to work through them for, you know, six and a half years to get it to a point where we tried to avoid, you know, other solutions. Um, and got to the point now where, um, you know, the residents have been patient. They've been working with us. Um, but at
some point, we can't keep kicking it down the road. Um, >> we delayed we delayed spring run some of the roads for repaving because we didn't want to repave and have the flooding issues ruined the paper. >> Right. So, spring run. So, so the two
brown road projects, those have been literally been working on them since almost day one. I think I've been in the mayor's office um trying to address those problems which are localized. There's no question that those are local um you know the impacts are not widespread but for those residents
impacted it's enormous. With Spring Run, what we'd like to be able to do is start doing roads in that area. But it would be foolish for us to spend the money on paving those roads if we're not addressing the underlying drainage, which is either going to then, you know, cause the road work we do to be uh not
last as long or could even make the drainage worse because now we're, you know, got roads that are um more surface that they're they're being done. So that's how those projects came about. Um but for the purpose of the kind of larger discussion about bonding, you know, keep in mind that although we also
have roads that we'd like to do this year and and in future years, there's those other less than public facing um uh needs that are also at some point in time, you know, I mean, I don't want to talk publicly about some of the security issues in the building, but you know,
the building needs security upgrades in a way that would probably concern a lot of people if they understood um you know that those issues. Um, you know, surely has needs. We have other that stuff that it's, you know, the public's not going to be coming down our coming in here
yelling at us about certain things, but at some point in time, if the infrastructure fails and we can't provide, um, you know, internet services and everything else in the building, um, that's going to be an issue if we can't get the trucks that we need. Um, so, you know, we have a list, I think you've you've all seen it, of I think, you
know, $15 million worth of stuff that we're not proposing obviously in one shot. Um but there are certain things that um could you kick some of that ne you know this year? Yeah, of course. Um could maybe could you push some of it to two
years? Yeah, maybe. Until all of a sudden the system fails or all until you know there's a problem and now it's you know it's the equivalent of the road who's now being rebuilt. It's now we don't get to do this on our timeline. We have to do it because it's an emergency because we did not address something. Um so anyway so my point is that you're
thinking about you know bonding needs capacity it's also a matter of you know what services do we need to provide to the residents park improvements I mean all the stuff that we talk about that we want to be able to deliver um we can't do everything that's why we have a discussion over prioritization and where
do we want to go um but um there is some stuff that um if we want to provide it to the residents um you know the the only mechanism to do that in any significant way um in any short-term method a short-term delivery
time is is through bonding. One of the things that we are going to hope to present to the council is you know some of these bonds come due right so we talk about how much each year I think in two years um we're still paying off the mispell building you know those bonds come off right I mean because these are fixed terms so you
>> do we know how much is coming off >> we do I don't know it as we're sitting here right now but there's a schedule so we know you know they they can project out for instance if we did no more bonding we just stop bonding there's a chart it obviously goes like this because part of it's just how much you're paying each year the 4 million or
the 5 million or whatever we in a budget we agree to do. But these bonds are fixedterm bonds. So every year some of them just come up unless we happen to refinance them which is we you know we do sometimes if there's better rates and things like that with the refunding
bonds. So, what we're hoping to do is to present to the council um something that is in some ways similar to how we looked at the road plan, which is if we were to bond for whatever the needs are, okay, the roads,
uh drainage, parks, whatever you want to put into that bucket, what would it look like over the next, you know, five years? You can do 10 years. It's kind of hard to project 10 years out in terms of the needs so that we can get to a point where, you know, if we're at that 13 number that Councilman Kersh mentioned,
if the goal is, let's say, to get to the 10 or get to the nine, how can we do that with regard to a combination of maybe putting a little extra money into the budget each year so that we're paying off more principal? Obviously, paying off quicker is is better. Um,
using more ca cash for the purchases so we're bonding less. and then being able to come up with a priority that says, "Hey, if we bond at this level for the next 5 years and we contribute this much money in terms of extra principal
payments or cash instead of bonding, in five years, we're going to be at this whatever this level is, the goal that the council ultimately sets so that we have a roadmap so that every year once we have that plan in place, we don't have to go through
um I mean obviously nothing binds the council, but we can kind of say, hey, we've agreed kind of as a group. We think this is the right plan. And then every year we can kind of debate within that, okay, we we've agreed that X is the amount of money that we can tolerate. We know what the impacts on the budget are going to be. And then we
can just fight about fight. We can have discussions about is it parks, is it sewer, is it roads, is it um what those what those are and we can make sure that the public understands what that impact is going to be shortterm and long term so that it's kind of within um you know
with within a set plan and we're not kind of guessing each year what's going to happen. The only thing we can't control uh exactly is those one-time things like the four million for the radios or, you know, some short-term bonding that could come up like the the 1.9. Camp Cromwell's a challenge.
>> Camp Cromwell's actually baked in. >> Yeah. Yes. >> So, so the way that we did Camp Cromwell is um we have a $4 million grant, >> but it's a reimburseable grant. Last year's council, I believe we um encumbered a million, >> right? um we'll get that million back,
but only after we spend it. And then theoretically that same million can be what I'll use the phrase recycled, right? >> Um and that's how you get to the four. And then when you're finished with the four, then you get the million back, right? >> Um that's baked in to the 85. Um so, you
know, and that was an important point for me to understand because you know, I I would rather we not have any surprises. I I would rather we not you know you know have and this is a difficult conversation um it's a difficult conversation for us here and it's a difficult conversation for people who are listening to it. I
mean this is you know this is serious stuff. Um and you know I I it's all baked in here. So it it sounds like you know we'll all have to come to our own conclusions about the numbers. You know the numbers basically are what the
numbers are. the the concern that I have and you know two weeks ago I I was the only one in this category um was um if we spend the full 2.5 um on this ordinance and fix all these problems in one year you know every
dollar that we encumber now is a dollar that you know we you know we have the consequence of from encumbering you know we get the improvement so that's positive but then you know we we owe the interest and potentially the lower flexibility to to bond to bond for other
things. So, you know, I don't I don't know if it makes sense to now pivot into these individual projects and what we're buying for the various uh amounts. I mean, are there any questions on the numbers at the bonding level or does or
you know, do we kind of have to say, okay, how is this two and a half what are the components of the two and a half million? Well, before we do that, I want to thank you for the presentation. >> Yeah, >> it was really helpful just have knowing about the 85 million and the 4.5
million. I mean, that's very very very helpful to me. Um, and the breakdown of the 13% um very helpful. Um, and I and I think the mayor's comments, you know, these are these are really important big
issues uh and concern. And I think we've already delayed I just want to confirm we've already delayed the roads for one year. I don't think we want to delay the roads for another year. >> We didn't delay roads. We didn't we did not delay roads. >> Okay. So
>> last year we we the original plan was for $8 million. >> I remember that. Yes. >> For five years. Last year we did 8 million but there was some other grant part of the 8 million included some of the grants whereas in prior years we
spent 8 million that we bonded 8 million and then we had grants. So is that true for the 1.9 million is some of that road work that we that >> that is all grants, >> right? But that so that's that's we we we >> would have paved those roads if we
weren't >> the grant the grant stuff. If we get the grant, we're we're doing the roads. It has nothing million. No, >> in in past years in up until last year, we would have done 8 million plus two >> last year. Last year we did eight, but we included the two because we were
trying to cut back on. It looks like that would that's the proposal for this year too cuz the road propo prop and this is way down the road. Correct. >> But it's 6.8. >> Correct. And that was kind of the you know the hope with the when we committed to the road plan um you know the hope
and which is what we were largely successful at doing was to say we need to we need to jumpst start this plan to begin with but also we want to avoid as much as possible roads getting you know again we get them to them quickly before they deteriorate. We've done that largely. I'm not saying every road, you
know, as I mentioned, you know, the pave, but there's a couple segments of still the roads that are um, you know, yeah, that really need real work. Um, but, uh, the hope was that you could then start dialing back the eight. Um, and whether it's lowering the bonding
overall or whether it's shifting priorities a little bit to say, okay, if we're if you're bonding, you know, or combination of both because, hey, we spent we focus was on roads. Now, do we say we're bonding, you know, less for roads and we're putting money into um more money into parks, more money into
the drainage projects? Um, you know, the decision to move forward with the specific proposals in 10 C was not made lightly because of the concerns that Councilman Kersh has mentioned in some of the you it's a lot of money. And so when we're talking about trying to
decrease uh overall bonding um and you know we have other concerns like the you know other priorities with like the radios and things like that um it was not a decision lightly to say let's move forward with these as opposed to other
projects. Um but from from uh my perspective they you know it's they're they're different but it's um we made a commitment following um Ireina that we were going to try to start addressing you know drainage. It's been tough
because it's not the we couldn't do it the same approach. We tried to do it kind of like roads. It's not that way. It's it's such localized to try to find each easement that's that's not maintained and which pipes are not the right size anymore. And again, these are all super costly projects that are very
difficult to do. Um, but the with with these projects, um, you know, the the first one that's listed on there, which goes into the, um, uh, up in Spring Run, actually was the first one, but yeah, Spring Run there. Um, that is a precursor to being able to do the roads up there. And I think um, I don't
remember if they came in this year or they came in last year, but you guys may have been in the audience if it was last year. >> Part of it, >> right? We started to do >> but the the >> we got to a point where we just >> the east side was done but the west side of correct development was not done. >> Correct. And we had residents that were came in. Um
>> some of those some of those again they were getting a little bit ahead of ourselves but some of those streets uh you know are on what I'll call the discretionary the potential discretionary list. >> Right. >> But again you know we we still have to get there. >> Right. And and I think with those roads
whether whether they're done this year as part of drainage or whether they're like the next year's roads where hey we do the drainage this year and then next year we come back and do the roads. We can't do those roads until drainage is addressed. Um whether it's simultaneously in the same year or whether it's drainage one year roads the
next. We can't skip the drainage part and then just do the roads. And those roads up there um those need to be done really need it. And as as the council knows, we've been trying to do where we don't we complete neighborhoods as opposed to because it's always easier to go back once everything's done to repave
an entire neighborhood in the future. One job. It's cheaper. It's easier. It's consistent. So you don't have neighbors saying my street, you know, turn one corner and it's now like a third world country. And then this one is like, you know, brand new and sparkling. Um so that's the goal with with with um that
portion of that. The other two are addressing um you know the concerns coming down Brown Road where it hits Carterette and and um down there is the problem. >> It goes like this. And so you have >> um you know two separate issues but
they're in the same area. Uh one is impacting residents that it's really kind of two uh two residents. This is one of his examples of where it is um it is localized but for those residents it is a huge impact and problem. >> Yeah. So, but didn't we last year have
that same problem where the the car the people were in a car and they were driving and there was a bowl. That's how I understood. >> It's not as dramatic as that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes. >> All right. So, so just to describe those two cuz I was up there on whichever day
with Mr. Papis. Um, and you have to go there to see it because on the map it's not intuitive because Brown Road goes downhill from 206 to uphill at Washington Valley. >> I've driven it a million times but can't be >> it's not exclusively uphill. It it it
you know es and flows. This particular place is is I don't this is an engineering term. I'll call this a bowl. So even though you think that water should be running down from
uh uh Washington Valley to 206 in this case the water is running from 206 in the other direction because it's it's it's following the curvature of the land. >> So but my point is didn't last summer didn't we have the same issue where
remember when the the I think it was all a never say his name right. No, not that. He was the fire guy. [laughter] >> Sorry. But where a car was driving down, there was a flash flood. The the road curved in. They didn't see. They
couldn't tell that the road had curved in. Their car gets stuck in the >> That was on the water and then they had to be rescued. >> That was Brookside. >> That was on Brookside. Yeah. >> Right. So, is this that same type of situation? Brown had issues uh during the snowstorm.
>> Yeah. There were there was a pile up there of cars. >> Yeah. >> Because then it doesn't just affect two or three homes. It affects anybody who's potentially driving down that road. Not that anybody should be driving down that road when there's a flash flood, but you know, we're all guilty of it.
>> I don't I don't want to um you know uh you know be too sensationalistic. Brookside has a has a a stream that's there which makes it even worse. But there is in the back of the properties on on um Brown Road that kind of you know go towards that Carterette side. There's a there is a stream that goes
back there. There's a lot of water that flows down um down that mountain. So there's been times when you've had flooding right at that lull part on um the property that um is on the corner right there on Carterette and um and
Brown um next to the um I remember who that >> the road was closed last year when when >> yeah you know uh Louisie um is there um and their property can get flooded. It could be there could be a little lake that's there. So, um you know, it's uh
absolutely possible that you can in a bad storm event, you could get pooling, um you know, down in that area. It could be incredibly dangerous for the homeowners and of course the first responders that then have to go in and address what can be significant flooding. Um now, what's going on there
is there is there there is municipal uh infrastructure. Mhm. >> Um and I think it's it's this is this is not an unimportant point for for us to align on. Um there is municipal infrastructure meaning there is a drain a lawn drain for lack of a better
phrase. >> Um that lawn drain either when it was designed or over time is overwhelmed. Um and that's what causes the flooding. So there there you know there is we do have infrastructure there. The infrastructure
is not sufficient. Um and I think it this is an important point to make where as we decide which projects we do and when and to what extent that there be a tie back to a Bridgewater responsible
engineering solution that needs to occur versus oops this property is wet because we've got wet properties all over town. I I live in a very flat area, but my property gets quite wet. You know, we can't be in
the business where we're helping everybody be bone dry on their property. That's just not a reasonable expectation. So I I I think at a certain point we each have to come to a decision and then collectively a policy of when
will we expend the taxpayers's dollars to fix something and when unfortunately do we have to say to a homeowner that's kind of a problem that you bought into. Um because you know we can't say no to
everything and we can't say yes to everything. I I think there's a sweet spot in the middle and mayor I if you see it the same or differently I I' I'd like to understand that. I think that we need to understand is there a bridgewater infrastructure component. Um
um you know in the case of spring run I think the trigger is that the area is so wet we can't construct you know the flow is so bad in that area we can't con we can't re we can't reconstruct the roads. In the case of this area,
um it, you know, the the engineering solution that we at some point put in is no longer sufficient. Um and I think as we look cuz we haven't mentioned it, but the other the fourth piece on here is the is the 500,000 of what I guess is just being called smaller projects. I I
think as we look at those smaller projects and prioritize and size them, you know, I for one think it's going to be important that we identify which ones need to be done because there's been an engineering failure or there's the there's the the um risk of an
engineering failure versus a person happened to happen happened to buy a house in a in a wet spot in you know in in a wet area of the mountain. You know, you know what I'm trying to say without being cruel is at what point are we responsible and at what point is it buy or beware?
>> Well, my question is how long has this particular problem we're talking about the Carterette Brown Road area? How long is is this something that existed 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 5 years ago? I mean, how long has this existed? This
has been there's been issues on this property um that I I'm pretty sure go back this area um since I've been on the council in 2008. Uh Councilman Albano may also re he may recall I won't put him on the spot, but I he might even
been on the council dealing with um uh you know these uh these properties because it's it's been a to fix them, right? there needs to be a commitment of capital and unfortunately um you know I think in the past everyone
has tried to do band-aid type improvements because you want to make the homeowners you know you want to address a problem but you don't want to spend the money to do it and we've been trying to um you know put band-aids on some of this stuff in a way that just doesn't solve the problem
>> and and I'm assuming this property is not in in a in an officially designated flood zone >> correct and Just so so the public understands, you can have flooding in your house and not be in a floods and not be in a designated flood zone. It
just it just happens to work out. But in this instance like Councilman Kersh mentioned that you know we do have and we have you know drainage infrastructure um throughout the town and you know there's other you know there we're aware of other projects that are you know kind of situation where at some point in time you know it could have been 50 years ago
but at some point in time township resources were put in over the course of time those those pipes have either you know either can no longer handle the capacity because of you know whatever whether it's development whether it's just changes in topography um or they've collapsed they're no longer functioning
um >> at a certain life, >> right? That's it. I mean, some of this stuff is just it's just it's no one's fault. It just doesn't work anymore. Needs to be replaced and um you know, and like that Carter area, there's other spots along there where at some point we're going to have to come back because again, it's all down that mountain. So,
you have some of the pipes that go down from Carterette towards Pen and then kind of back up again. Um you know, are issues. But for today, we're talking about these two. Um and uh council president they've been you know they've been promised for a long time which is why you know despite the fact that um
you know it's not a small amount of money. Uh we felt strongly enough that said we can't just in good conscious um put it off again. Um they almost got done last year and we we ultimately um you know pulled them and uh you know I
that's why they're here. All right. I will >> real quick >> important to note last year we've paid for the engineering work to be done on these projects. So they've been designed and they're now for the lack of better terms shovel ready. Subjects are going
to D and it's it's going to be a pretty lengthy process. I mean you know just cuz dep regardless of how we vote tonight if there's rain tomorrow we're not we're not fixing it tomorrow. It takes time to fix anything.
>> And I wanted to um add that in addition to all of the good conversations we've been having, it's gotten a lot of attention. You know, two weeks ago in our last council meeting and then obviously the press and then today I received three emails about I think most
of us did on Dale Homes. Three different residents contacted me. Um you know, so other roads are getting you know um flagged now because we're having this conversation. And so I think on the other side of things, you know, regardless of how we vote today on on
these three, um, this last one, the communication needs to get a little bit better with those people also that are now seeing that we're having all these conversations for certain roads, but what about those roads that they're emailing us about?
>> Did you have a comment because then I do want to address that. Um, yeah. I I just I just wanted to to ask since we're we're now into the um the nuts and bolts of of what is
being proposed, what's the level of confidence that the uh uh work will actually uh solve the problems in the uh uh in in the uh Brown uh Brown Road and Carteret
Road areas. >> All right. Well, I'm not the engineer, but you know, I I've I spoke to the engineers a great deal and and also got Mr. Papis's input. So, you know, certainly looking at 1024 Brown Road and Carterette, they need to be looked at
together. They are literally right next to each other. Um, I believe, even though I'm not an engineer, that um the the the what we're calling the the um Carterette Road project
could make the 1024 Brown Road project unnecessary, depending upon how we solve uh the Carterette and that that that lawn drain, for lack of a better phrase, and get that water out and get that
water underneath Brown road and get that water out of that area. I believe that that there is there's at least some possibility that we we may not need to do the the the 1020 the solving the
Carterette Road could solve the 1024 Brown Road problem. So, you know, no, you know, no guarantees. If if we're talking about phasing though, um you know, my preference would be that we put all effort into the carterette side
first and not solve the small problem that then gets subsumed by the big solution. >> You're talking about about um the Brown Road Carterette as as kind of phase one in 1024, the second one as a as a
>> Yeah. I mean I mean I because because you what I don't what I wouldn't want to do because again resources are very very tight here >> and I'm not playing one neighbor off against the other but I would hate to have us spend $200,000 to solve the problem on this side of the street. >> Yeah. >> And then we spend a million dollars to
solve the problem on this side of the street and the solution on this side of the street is so good that and because bear in mind the water is flowing is kind of flowing you know counterintuitively at that point. you know, theoretically if this fix if this million-dollar fix could work, um, you
know, we could have a situation where that intersection is dry, that street is dry, you know, and and then what's what's happening further, what I'll call up Brown Road, is really just runoff from your own property or maybe a
neighbor, not, you know, an inundation. So one thing that we could consider um you know to think about is um council should keep in mind first of all that when you approve bond ordinances um we don't actually bond tomorrow. I
mean for some of them like for radios we might bond I mean you know bond council but in in many respects you know what you're doing is you're giving the council you're giving the administration the the ability to bond but we don't necessarily do it right away. I mean there's some instances where for one reason or another you know a project
gets approved and you know you see that the it's you know next year is when it actually gets bonded because a project you know it stalls winter comes up and so um what we what we um could consider is I'm not an engineer. I don't know the
answer to um as I sit here right now to Councilman Kersh's question about whether one could fix the other. I also don't know if there's any economies of scale in terms of, you know, from a pricing standpoint of, hey, if you're going to be out there, do you want to make sure you're doing both projects at the same time? I don't know those
questions. But before any money can, you know, like anything else, we have to go out for public bid. Um, you know, if you approve the bonding, we don't actually borrow the money until we need it. We have to go out and get the bids first. So, what we could do is if the council
is um you know, generally, you know, okay with the bond ordinance as is, if you approve it uh tonight, that lets us get started on on you know, the spring run, moving that part forward to go out for bids. we can make sure that from an
engineering standpoint, we can go back and get more information with regard to um you know, from our engineer about whether or not is what Councilman Kers is suggesting possibility and if that is a possibility, do they have recommendations on on phasing um and uh
you know, making sure that there's um you know, not we're not spending uh more money because we waited, but at the same time, hey, we don't need to spend it. That's that's also great. Um so we can do that and then um you know again the
council would have to approve any ultimate expenditures. We can get all that information and if the if the answer comes back from the engineer that says yeah you know you really could just try one project first and then you can come back and do the second one. We don't go out and borrow the money. you know, we we it's the authority is there,
but we can wait and see. And then if it turns out that um it probably doesn't work, then you know, at that point in time could be next year, we go out and we do the second part of it. >> And it bears noting all this has to go through D, >> right? >> And that's going to take time. And what
we what our engineers think is possible, they may may or may not, >> right, >> agree to D as part of design? >> No. No. So, so again, when you're thinking about bonding, you talk about capacity and the 85 million, 81 million, all that stuff. Approving the bond
ordinances doesn't increase, you know, our debt. That doesn't happen until we do a bond sale. And there are times when, you know, Councilman Kersh may remember where we've come back into the council and said, "Hey, you know, we actually there's there's unfunded bonds from 2022 because there was extra money
left over or we've canceled bonding authority because the council at some point in time gave authority that was never used for whatever reason. So, um, approving the ordinance tonight alone does not spend money or um, so my
recommendation uh, you know, because I think Councilman Kush has a good point. I don't know the answer to would be in order to not delay the projects which would have to involve you know either at a minimum pushing off this ordinance possibly having to restart the process which would would delay certainly moving forward with spring run and with the
Brown Road Carter Road is approved the ordinance you know as is tonight. um we can then pursue more questions with regard to that phasing of the of the project and um ultimately anything that we do is going to have to be for expenditure is going to have to come back in front of the council
>> and and you have to approve the bid. So if you're not happy, if you're not comfortable with whatever the ultimate proposal is, you can vote no on you can only you can vote to just approve the contract for one of the two and we don't actually bond until we get to that point. So, if for some reason the
council doesn't approve it for, you know, some time period, we're not incurring debt costs, we're not impacting our budget yet till we actually bond. >> What concerns me, and this is what happened at the meeting two weeks ago, is at what point are we painting ourselves into a corner potentially, um,
and and then we have to really start saying no to other things because we've already said yes to so many. you know, the comment was made about, you know, we're getting a lot of emails from this street or that street or the other street, and we should take every single one of those seriously. But what the administration did um when it came in
and and our team on the council that came in with it um was we got away from the time of the loudest person, the person that that complains the loudest gets their road paved because for a while that was kind of the way things happened. We went to a datadriven
approach where we looked at the true condition of roads. Now, that was a few years ago, so we probably need to get back to that again. Um, but as far as communication goes, what prompted the couple of emails we've gotten, um, it I don't think is lack of communication. I
think the the those homeowners were told some number of months ago, we're considering you, but they know we haven't done it yet. But the answer is we haven't we haven't taken action because we we haven't discussed a single
paving of a road until today. So, so you know, could or should residents should there be a tickler where you're reminded, oh, if you haven't gotten back to someone for 6 months, you know, remind them again. I I I don't know. I don't know if that's even feasible or desirable. But, you know, in in this
case, those residents I believe have been well communicated with. I think that for whatever reason they got impatient again and that's why they and they're and they're entitled to that because they look at that road every day. One thing I'll mention though is I drove over there yesterday and I I I I
went over to I also went over to Heler which is right across from from the post office. Sorry to tell you Heler was like a hundred times worse than Holmes in my opinion. And I, you know, I I didn't have the cameras out, but you know, just
driving my car, I thought Heler was worse than Holmes or Dale. And that's the problem because because >> what's that? >> Heler. >> Yeah. I thought it was a disaster. >> You go up and it curves to the right and goes down to the culde-sac. >> The part by by North Bridge is barely a
street. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And the residents. >> All right. But but but here's the point. you know, we we don't we don't we we don't have the data from it anymore because we did the road survey a few years ago and unfortunately like
>> for a road ugliness is in the eye of the beholder, >> you know? I mean, you know, you might look at the street be like, "Wow, this thing is awful." But then, you know, if you are as we know and as our staff knows, >> it's like, hey, that's it's actually not that bad. >> Yeah. And I I think when we joined
earlier, you know, this year like the the township engineer, he did a great job, Bill, to show us the prioritization of of the roads, right? So, I think that's that's what I mean by, you know, just that continuous communication like they they you know, it's it should be an
engineering driven decision why they haven't gone to them yet, right? >> Well, but but we haven't gone to any any of them. >> Yeah. And and the Yeah. They they told me clearly in one of the emails today that like it was the article they read like oh they're hearing all these bonds are going up. When are they coming up?
So it was the newspaper article they read that drove us drove them to write to us. >> Well that's part of the problem too like where you see um you know when when you keep saying to people like hey it's you know we're waiting we're waiting and they say what are we waiting on? I think I mean even um I forget it was Bob
again. Sorry I keep picking on Bob in the audience here but I think when when Mr. Alano came up it commented like hey like some other roads. like well this not the road ordinance though like this is not necessarily what we're proposing but I think kind of bringing this back is when we talk about capacity just based on the numbers that um we've
talked about tonight even assuming that the 4 million in radios that we don't get any money back on um using what RAD 85 the the bond the radio is essentially a swap for what we are um we're paying
back >> and um the 1.9 is we know that money is there. So, the majority of that's coming back. So, really what we're when you talk about um capacity based on um Councilman Gersh's uh you know um
you know 100 million number from a capacity standpoint you know there's a there's $15 million of capacity u coming within the the levels using those those metrics. Obviously they're actually technically more but from that
from the fiscally conservative responsible you know maybe most con not you know small C conservative uh but um you know so the answer here is that of the $15 million of of capacity um you
know this this is you know two you know 2.5 of that um and I would anticipate you know that we would be with further discussion with the council making sure that when we talk about rest the rest of capacity would be that you know we're going to want to propose um you know
another you know four or 5 million of of road work because there is a lot of you know work being done. Now obviously if the council comes to me as a whole and you guys say you know we think five's too much give us your best list for four well that's what we'll do. If you say we want to do three million but we want an
extra million we want to do a million of of parks or the other priorities on that list that we put together obviously that's what we're here to work with. I mean, I can't, you know, this is not me uh just saying, well, this is what we're doing because obviously I need, you know, not only three votes, I need four votes. So, I can't do anything without us working together. So, it's a capacity
coupled with a prioritization. And I think, you know, the drainage is part of that. Um, you know, roads, if you'd like to put a little money into some of the other stuff, but um, you know, that's of the 15 million, this is two of it. We're obviously not proposing
using all of the remaining 13 uh you know um right now, but um there's road work that needs to get done. There's uh park projects that we want to do. There's you know infrastructure needs and um you know I think that probably looking at trying to to you know do
another uh four or five million dollars of bonding is probably um you know in that range. But >> so um I I don't want to interrupt you. >> No, I'm done. I'm done. I'm saying but that that's just kind of a you know that's obviously uh you know I think what I would where I'm you know generally at but I'm not
it's not a hard number I could you know if council says we need more we need more we need less we need less is a collaborative effort in terms of what additional road you know additional capital work we would do through bonding. So, um I have a couple comments. One,
I'm uh I'm leaning yes, but I want certain asurances. Um so, but I want to go back. I want to backtrack. One of the reasons I'm leaning yes at this point, and I just want to acknowledge when I talk to Councilman Kersh, I'm a no. When I talk to other people, I'm a yes. I'm
going back and forth. So, this is a very, very close >> Well, if you're yes, let's go right now, Council President. Let's go. We still have to have public comment. But um one of the things that tends me in the direction of yes is that the and I think that the public needs to know this. The
useful life of this project is estimated to be 40 years which is that's good in my you know as opposed to the radios where the useful life is 10 years. We're spending 4.2 million and we might only get 10 years out of it. All right. This
we could spend 2.5 million and get 40 years out of it. That's good. Um my concern and and by the way we're looking at you know the sheet with 15 million. If we did the whole 15 million this year that only leaves us and and we're paying
off 4.5 million that only leaves us with the ability to do 4.5 million next year because we're at the hundred. >> Well we'd probably pay back four and a half. So some of it gets recycled but we're closer to that credit. >> We're at the 100. >> We're closer to the credit limit. >> So we're we're getting we're we're
getting really close. But I think what I need to get me to yes is all of those asurances that every step of the and within the bounds of the law, I need to understand what further input does
council have or will council have to say yes or say no so that if we don't need the whole 2.5 million, we don't have to spend the whole 2.5 million. And that applies to the 4.2 million too because
in my mind that number justifiably so you you're you're applying for a grant. You want to make sure that you cover yourself and you and you know if it ends up being more than you estimate. You have a little bit of wiggle room. But again, what are what and you were talking about the mayor.
What are those asurances that this will come back to council so we'll be able to say >> it >> has to come back because even though we approved the bond ordinance it's just like the radios are going to come back to us because we have to award the contract
>> to to each individual that it'll go out for a bidding process >> right and then the lowest bidder presume well it's not >> lowest qualified bidder we don't have to we don't have to necessarily accept the lowest bid correct What we what we almost always do
>> be it would be some defect. It would be a defect. >> It wouldn't meet the specifications. >> Yeah. Hold on. For for for the for the radios, it's a state contract. There's no bidding there, >> right? Okay. >> But but for for the radios, you would the council would still have
to approve the purchase. So, um, if we all of a sudden said we want to, we're adding a bunch of radios on there or you have further [clears throat] comments, >> um, you ultimately have to approve it. >> Okay. >> Um, when it comes to the the sewer, uh,
the one 10 C, um, that we're talking about or the number 12 C, whatever it is. Um similarly uh you assuming for any um you know material time and material contracts like going out we'd have to go for that would be bid we've already done
the engineering work um so that would have to come back to you to ultimately approve the contract you know approve award of contract for the work. Um we bid that stuff would be bid out unless we went with a state contract. We don't usually go with state contracts for for that those kind of localized projects.
we would bid them out presumably. But either way, no matter what the procurement method is, the council would have to approve the um approve the the contracts. So if you change your mind uh about wanting to move forward with the projects, you would not approve the
contract. >> What if what if like with Councilman Kur like what if we say what if we want to say look let's do the um let's do the Brown Road Carter. We we want to have input in terms of let's do Brown Road and Carterette first because if that
solves the 1024 problem then we don't have to spend the money. >> That's right. You approve the contracts. So I can't um by approving the bond ordinance. I can't just go out and say I now have a you know a $2 million check from the council. Let's go. Um I have to come to you and say
>> 2 million a spending authority subject to approval of what you want to spend it on. >> Correct. Right. So, we could say we could say no to approving the work on 1024. We could say we're not going to approve that contract because we want Brown Road and Carter Red Road done first.
>> That's correct. You would control the award of the contracts or the scope of the contracts because you have to approve the contracts >> and we would be able to um have that input intelligently to be able to give intelligent input with respect to that because our engineer will be back from
vacation. >> Correct. with firm pricing though because the bids have come back. >> But we will we'll also have the opportunity to have our engineer here and ask those qu ask the question that you just you know the issue that you
just raised about look if we if we do because I found that really fascinating. If we do Brown and Carterette first, is there a possibility that that will mitigate or help solve the 1024 >> or make the 1024 problem much? >> Right. Right. Tonight we don't have the
engineer here, but if we I'm more inclined to go yes, if I know the we can we can have the engineer back here and we can ask those kinds of questions. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so the the answer question is absolutely. So, first of all, legally, um the answer is yes. First of all, because you have to
approve all the contracts. Second of all, I give you my assurance even if I if I, you know, didn't have to, I assure you that I will make sure that we do not move forward with those projects. Um, you know, you will have input even beyond what, you know, you know, the
minimum of the law requires, which would be coming to you with a contract and saying approve or not approve. >> What I wanted you to say record. >> So, I will make sure that everybody is satisfied. Um, that it's not just me dropping a contract on you and saying, "Hey guys, yeah, you're net. That's it." but that there's meaningful discussion
about the scope. So, if there's policy decisions to be made, you're involved in the policy decision-making process about what gets put in front of you um to consider and um you know, and some of that may be out of our hands, too. D may give comments that impact this. Yeah.
>> Um you know, engineering my my understanding is engineering design has begun but is not necessarily completed yet. So when Bill is back um as soon as the engineering design is is you know done or done enough or he's ready to present it we can sit down with uh the
council members um you know in in the office here wherever the right uh most productive um forum is for going over all the options and those considerations we will do that um but uh both based on the law
and my and I promise that we'll go beyond that you will have inut put on it. Um, and uh, you know, that's not an that's not an issue. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Does that make you more comfortable, Councilman Kersh? >> It makes me more comfortable. You know,
I I should say, by the way, if for some reason we move forward with our discussion on other bonding items and the council kind of says, you know, mayor, you sold us on the the the drainage projects, you
know, at that July meeting, but now we're sitting here in August and we think that maybe the priorities need to shift a little bit from what we thought. Again, I can't spend the money um you know uh without the approval. So if we needed to come back at a future time
after looking at the engineering and saying you know even though we approved the 2 million of bonding we really think we should shift uh you know some of it to another priority we can do that. Um whether it's you know by cancelling the bond ordinance or whether it's by s you know not doing the
bonding and saving it for a future year. Um that doesn't lock you in until the money is borrowed and spent. It doesn't lock the council in from um you know still having input overall. But if we delay
moving forward with the these sewer projects um you know with the bonding one if we start from scratch we'll now be you know further down the road. And two um you know I I think it's unless the council tells me differently I'm not
hearing any concerns about moving forward with spring run. Um, and I'm not hearing, you know, the concerns on the on the brown carterette is >> clarify, >> right? >> I don't have an opinion. I if we were going to eliminate a project or delay a
project, >> whether it's Brown or Spring Run, >> I want that recommendation from Bill Bur. >> I am not going to sit here and say, "Yes, we're we I you know, with all due respect, as Councilman Kersh said, he's not an engineer. There's a suggestion
there, but to make a decision to say we're going to fund this project and not this project. I if we need to lower that number, I want the engineer to give a report to say this would be the priority. >> Right. Understood. But that's what I'm saying is that right now if we delay um
you know if if we council decides hey to we're going to carry this or we're going to you know vote no and start over again it's going to it's going to delay spring run which I think again I don't hear any any objections to doing that and it will delay us moving forward with uh advancing both of the projects to get to
on Carterette Brown to get to a point where we can have those discussions and make the final call based on what we get from Bill Burr and what the council wants to to um so we can move forward with this for now turn to the discussion
about roads and other other capital projects and what I'm just saying to the council is if if in part of those conversations you change priorities um based on input from from everyone from the engineer from the you know from administration from Mr. Papis from, you know, bond
council, whatever. Um, nothing is irrevocable or set in stone in a way that the council can't have further conversations until the money is borrowed and and allocated towards a awarded contract. Um, you know, I can't,
you know, it's not undoable or or can't >> let me just react to this question of delay because first of all, there's been no delay in this. I mean there has been light speed because the first time that we got anything on this was on June 19th.
>> Yeah. And I've actually so so you know you know I know I don't think that that it was used as a projorative but I just want to be really clear there there has been no delay you know you know on on the part of of of of this council. >> No no I if I insinuate that I didn't
mean to say that. I'm just saying that right now if the council was to not vote on this, >> you know, if if the council doesn't vote on this tonight, you know, if you carry it, which you certainly could do, it just, you know, it just pushes the project um, you know, further out. What we're trying to do is get the projects
that we can get moving um because obviously engineering department also can't do everything all at once. So, we can get this moving, we can then turn to discussion on uh on roads, on other capital uh projects. um you know and and this year uh you know we we um focused
on the budget uh first um make sure that was all done of course and um you know we didn't present the council with the bond ordinances until we got through the budget and make sure that the council had an opportunity to get more comfortable with the financial condition
of the township um you know obviously you know with obviously the three new members we didn't want to I did think about trying to drop a bunch of bond orances on you early and hope that maybe I would uh you know be able to just push them through. But I didn't think that was actually the most um useful,
productive or collaborative process. >> Let me just clarify two things and then I I think we're at a point where everyone's opinion is known. Um the two points is I I want there to be no no miscl miscommunication that I am trying
to play off 1024 Brown Road versus Brown Carter. I am not doing that. I'm trying to look at and and everyone should go up there and see it and and not just see it yourself, but see it with either Mr. Papis or or I'm even willing to go back because I could explain it or with Mr.
Burr when he's back from vacation. You you really have to see it to understand it. >> I drive it every day. >> Well, then maybe you're exempt from that, Ne. Um but like you know cuz as as I said at the beginning of this conversation, if you look at a map, it looks like water's flowing uphill.
Obviously water doesn't flow uphill. Um so so that's the other The other thing I am not trying to do I am not trying to to to to play spring run against Brown Road. Like I this is you know this is this is not uh you know you know a battle of the network stars going on here. I mean I'm not doing that. Um you
know I do have concern I have had concern about every every dollar we're we're bonding or in this case every million dollars we're bonding is a million dollars that's encumbered that we can't spend on something else. That's the reason why I took the position that I did last week that I preferred to do half of it now and let's get some of
these open questions answered. I also took the time to prepare in case there is not sufficient support to move forward with the 2.5. I took it upon myself to prepare an alternative for 1.3 so that then if there wasn't support, we
would have have the opportunity in two weeks to then pick flavor A or flavor B. It sounds like that is probably not necessary, but again, I did not know how this how this discussion was going to go. >> Can we um have a motion to open to the public? >> So moved.
>> I'll second. All in favor? >> I. >> All right. >> Come on up, Mr. Oano. >> I guess technically I should read. >> You don't have to greet each of us again. >> Okay, good. Do I only have to read it once in the very beginning? You're good.
>> Robert Albano, 1149 Papen Road. >> God bless you for staying through all that. >> I actually enjoyed the conversation. >> Good. >> It brought back memories, [laughter] but I also want to compliment you on the thoroughess in which you discussed it
without any animosity or regrimation or acrimony. Reminds me of how it was when I was there. >> We like each other. Anyway, um, [clears throat] water flows downhill. You all know that water from Brown Road
Carterette flows through my backyard and the amount of water flowing through there in the last 47 years has increased dramatically. Yet, there's no development going on. Mhm. >> So I think that means there may be
something else happening to water in this town because I know exactly where the brown road and you did say the man's name, right? His first name is Arie and I know his kids. I know his wife.
When I used to meet him and talk with him 47 years ago, he did not have a problem with water. So something's different and I think the flows are greater than they were.
Now, the water from Carterette and Brown and Arie's property flows through my backyard, which is why I'm here because the gabons that the township put in about 35 years ago have reached their
useful life and they have been collapsing for several years. As you may recall, Mike, as you may recall, uh, I passed out pictures, but it has gotten bad. And sorry about the quality of this, but
basically the Gabons on here on the other side are collapsing because when the water gets high enough, it gets behind them and then erodess the back. And that one Gabon in that picture has gone from being this way to being
this way. >> That's the water that's coming from the what most of the discussion was about tonight. So I would ask you that when you consider what you're going to do with with Brown Road and Carterette,
consider that the water is going to go through the backyard. >> So I just want to recap what you said. You're you're if I understood correctly, I want to make sure I understood it. What you're saying is this problem has gotten worse over time. It's not hasn't been consistently the same. Yes.
>> And and then secondly that there were repairs at or there were well there was a fix to it at one point but again that fix is ending. It is at the end of its useful life. >> It was done in the mid 1980s.
>> Okay. after many years of coming to the council and >> did that get >> and and and correct me if I'm wrong, but and you know, please I'd look for you know, Mr. Mr. Papis or or Mayor Mench to weigh in. This is exactly what we have in mind in that $500,000 bucket, right?
These relatively small fixes that are become the pun downstream consequences of potentially other things that we do. So yes, except that in this particular case, this may even be included within the scope of work that cuz when
engineering looks at like the Brown Road, Carterette 1024 projects, they do look at what happens downstream and um you know, whether it's the effect just from that fix. I mean you know uh obviously that project itself doesn't directly rate the cavons but if we can
we will look at the downstream effect and fix other related drainage as part of that project. I don't get your hopes up that that you know um I don't know as I'm seeing here not the engineer I don't want to make it say that this is specifically part of it but we will look at those downstream effects on any drainage projects but on this one
specifically is what happens when you fix it here and what parts come down. So whether it's included in the actual 1024 Carter uh brown project or is part of the extra money the extra money the the miscellaneous um is always our hope that
we can fix all parts of one problem whether it's streets in an area or drainage is one um one project and I think you're also the drainage the Gabons's there they took a big big hit during was it Ida what was the because they used to be that the the rock where
the snakes would uh sunbathe on they just got like a washed away. It was >> the whole base got washed away. >> Yeah. >> And it was undercutting the the bridge and the county came out and dumped in dumped >> multiple tons of stone. >> Next big storm. Most of it was gone.
>> I don't know how many words we used today, but a picture is worth a thousand words. Definitely. >> Come on down. I'll buy you [laughter] a cup of coffee. >> And you got the young kids on the other side of that, too. >> Yeah. >> The other side. >> You got the family next door with the kids that uh you know are down by that river there. >> Oh, yeah. My grandkids were in there
during the when they were here in May. >> Yeah. >> What the hell are you doing? Am I saying I'll just say that? What are you doing down there? There are snakes. >> They didn't care. >> Yeah. >> But uh anyway, uh I I just >> Yep. >> I know how difficult what you're trying
to do is. And Mike, I compliment you on on digging in and understanding what our bond ratings are. That's all good work. I'm sure that nobody's listening anymore. Mhm. >> I I really compliment you. >> We could pass anything now. >> Huh? [laughter]
>> We could pass anything now. >> I got a bunch of suggest. Listen, if you guys are ready. >> Mike always has a couple things in his back. >> Even got tired and left. >> Michael was able to out talk the reporters. I mean, we've been here a
while. >> Poor officer that has to be here tonight. >> If he's getting overtime, he's more than happy. He's all right. [laughter] >> And roads are important. Every time I hit a bad bump, I have to get a a wheel alignment. $200 all >> true. Thank you.
>> Motion to close public comment and move for final action. >> Second. >> I'll second. >> Favor. >> I I >> All right. Uh before we uh before we vote, uh could we get either uh next
council meeting or some some subsequent one a uh a presentation on the problems that uh we're looking to solve uh or fund the solving of through this bond ordinance? >> Absolutely. Yes. Uh, I would just say
until without talking to to Bill, I don't want to tell you it's the next council meeting or because I just don't want to. Yeah, we will we will do that at a public meeting. We will do it >> private and public combination of both, whatever. >> Prior to a request to award contracts. >> Yes, prior to a reg. Absolutely.
>> Certainly. >> Yeah. I I I just think that for the, you know, for the transparency and and for the information of of the public that >> we'll bring we'll bring them here. We'll have it when the before the contracts are are uh awarded, you know, either at the next council meeting, two whatever
the right timeline is to be able to present the right information to the public, we will do that at a public meeting, >> right? And uh hopefully it will also, you know, solve the the uh issue of, you know, we're not engineers. We don't have the ability to really measure the the
problem or the solution. So we need the the experts to uh not civil engineers but uh need the experts to to um provide that >> level of detail
>> and yeah the engineer I guess like you said in the future when he's here just the risk benefit from his perspective would be nice. >> Yeah absolutely >> if we you know delayed the project you know. >> Absolutely. Well, I mean, just for discussion, I mean, you know, because I don't want to
be I don't want to be caught by surprise here. I mean, I would have preferred a st a staggered approach. It seems as though the will of this council is to do this full this full project right here, right now. Is Is that accurate?
>> We're gonna find that out. >> We'll find out how agile we are. Well, I I mean, you know, after being through this together, I I think kind of a simple yes no answer wouldn't be unreasonable. >> All right. >> All right. Because, you know, you know,
my preference would have been to would have been to to to to do this in phases, but I I I don't think I don't think I have any support for that. >> Councilman Beco, >> yes. >> Councilwoman Isa, >> yes. Councilman Kersh, >> yes. >> Counciloman Ring,
>> yes. >> President Gger, >> yes. All right. I know. >> Close session. No, I'm only kidding. >> No, very quickly though on the discussion site items. >> I don't I don't I promise it's not 17. Um, real quick, I follow up on
properties destroyed. Uh, our township planner came back with a couple revisions which you will see underlined in there. I think they're all fine at this point. Unless somebody has tells me specifically they have a concern, the expectation is that Mr. Corsini's firm
will have a uh ordinance for introduction. It's >> already been prepared >> at our next meeting. >> All right. >> Followup. >> This is a followup. And the next one is also a followup. Um had a meeting earlier. Whoops. Here. Let me keep that one. All right. >> I don't I do.
>> No, you didn't. This is an updated one. >> Yes. had a meeting today with the township planner regarding the indoor >> regarding the indoor entertainment. Um the term that came up with kind of on the fly is enhanced indoor commercial
recreation. So we would keep the indoor stuff and then have a separate one for the stuff that is currently not allowed. Um and kind of gave some thoughts as to what zones. And then I thought it was very good the planner also came up with she'd like to expand it even further
with things like laser tag hatchet throwing. We talked about the golf simulation place that's really a restaurant and that's their entertainment on 22. So trying to broaden it even more. If anyone has any concerns on this let me know. Otherwise we will have something to introduce as
well. There are a couple things that I will bring up. We have an ordinance about the snow. >> So moved. >> Second. >> I
>> I was 17. >> What's the latest? signing boards long agenda. to be