##VIDEO ID:FlOF46t-VuI## e e e e in January 28th 2025 it is 703 both adequate and electronic notice of this meeting specifying the time place in manner in which such notice was provided in accordance with the open public meeting Act njsa 10 col 4-6 specifically on January 15 2025 proper notice was sent to The Courier News and the Star Ledger and filed with the clerk at the township of Bridgewater and posted on the municipal bulletin board Please be aware of the zoning Board of adjustment policy for public hearings no no new applications will be heard after after 9:30 and no new testimony will be taken after 10: p.m. if you're able please rise for the salute to the flag to the flag the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands all right good evening Nancy if you can get a roll call please chairman fo here Mr W Deli here miss Amin yes Mr Sweeny here Mr Fresco here Mr bonjourno here Mr gesi here Mr sikat here Mr kulak is absent Mr uh vessio here Mr gabit here you have a quarm you can proceed all right uh do we get the professionals on the record sad Mr bur present Kevin zoning officer excuse me board secretary also great thank you all right we have some minutes uh first up December 10th 2024 comment changes okay very one or two typ so a motion with some typo Corrections you'll give them to Nancy and to Kevin thank you you have a second please second Mr widley with a second I'm sorry um that was December December 10th okay show Mr bonjourno Mr gki were absent so oh I'm sorry yes Mr bouro I'm sorry Mr widley uh yes Mr Cat yes M mean yes Mr she made the motion chairman yes Mr vesio yes Mr Fresco yes Mr G yes all right next up is January 10th comments Andor changes January 10th no no correction okay all right Mrs Amin with the motion can I have a second please I second Mr Deli Mr Sweeney yes Mr bonjourno yes Mr widy yes Mr Cat yes Mrs Zin yes uh chairman fuss yes Mr gesi yes Mr vesio yes presco yes Mr gab yes all right next up we have professional agreements we have an agreement to appoint board attorney appoint board engineer an agreement to appoint board planner an agreement to appoint our Consulting planner a professional agreement to appoint R our RF engineer so it's 1 two 3 four five professional agreements looking for comments or changes on any if not can I have a motion please I move that we do all five as one Bunch okay do I have a second Mrs am second all right chman F yes Mr widy uh yes Mrs Z yes Mr Sweeney not eligible Mr Sweeny not eligible Mr Fresco yes Mr bonjourno yes Mr gesi yes Mr Cat yes Mr KAC I'm sorry Mr yes Mr gabin yes all right next up we have solar landscape uh number three and five ferin Avenue looking for comments and changes can I have a motion please I move Mr Wiley seconded Mr bonjourno chairman F yes Mr widley uh yes yes Mr Sweeney I don't believe I'm eligible Mr Fresco yes Mr vanjo yes Mr gki yes Mr Cat yes Mr kol I'm sorry Mr viio yes and Mr gabbit yes all right we're going to move on to our Land Development applications Rich why you take us through who's being carried to win and then we'll get to tonight's case so we have uh several so we have uh first 1,00 route22 land investors is being carried to February 11th um there'll be new notice with respect to that application visions and Pathways is being carried to February 11th also uh new notice there Rockland APV Bridgewater energy LLC is uh also carried to February 11th uh again new notice there uh 821 Bridgewater LLC and Jewish Community Center is now carried to uh February 25th of this year um also with new notice uh the St Bernard Church application is being carried to February 25th with new notice uh belly Holdings is being carried to March 11th um also with new notice CX Towers uh was being carried to May 27th however we didn't receive their EX signed extension um of time for which the board can act so what I suggest we do with CX Towers is that we um um dismiss it without prejudice and then when we have their signed extension we can reinstate it and then there's uh also gmunk oil is being carried to March 25th that notice is also pending new and Bridgewater Self Storage is now on March 5 as well also with notice so we should talk about CX towers and again since we don't have um an extension of time in which to act I suggest that we uh dismiss that application without prejudice and the applicant can reinstate it once they provide us with the signed extension all right very good so the board we're going to uh entertain a motion to dismiss without prejudice I move Mr widely you have a second please second Mr bonjourno yes yes yes yes yes yes Mr gki yes good right moving on anyone that's here for the Starbucks case as rich just mentioned that has been moved uh they were deficient in their notice so tonight's only case is going to be the Paul Miller group Re 22 West Mr silbert all ready to go good evening good evening Mr chair board members Mike before you do that let me just back up to Starbucks again okay because they they did send out their certified mailings which it were fine they had a problem with the newspaper getting it in timely so um that application just has to publish so I'm going to announce the new date which will be March 11th for uh Starbucks so anyone in the audience here for Starbucks that application is being heard on March 11th um there'll be no further certified mail notices from the applicant but there will be a publication notice okay thank you rich thank you um so my name is Michael silbert I am an attorney from the law firm deep franccesco baitman located in Warren Township New Jersey and I have the privilege of representing the applicant this evening Paul Miller Auto Group LLC this is an application for preliminary and final major site plan approval with c and d variance relief concerning property located at block 559 lot 5.02 as shown on the Township's tax maps now known as 1207 US Route 202 two sorry US Route 22 West the property is located in the Township's GC Zone and is the former location for The ganet Courier News building the property is now large largely vacant uh it's it's an honor for me to be involved with this application which has truly been in the works for a number of years the applicant has paid very close attention to exist dealerships throughout the township and has tried its best to incorporate successful design elements from those dealerships while also working to eliminate those certain design elements that have not worked as well for other dealerships so over the years we have taken in feedback from various Township uh professionals to revine to refine the design before you this evening this is a zoning board application because the GC Zone District does not explicitly permit new car dealers ships notably the GC Zone conditionally permits existing car dealerships and their expansion uh however D1 use variance is required because the proposed car dealership constitutes a new car dealership which is again not explicitly listed as among the permitted or conditionally permitted uses in the GC Zone this location is ideal for the proposed use with the Honda dealership to the west and the accurate a dealership to the east among many other car dealerships in the immediate vicinity of the property we feel that the proposed use is is benign so there are no nearby Residential Properties this use is not a hi trffic generator limited truck traffic for example and we believe it will help attract a high-end clientele to Bridgewater which will support many of the nearby retail businesses and restaurants in Bridgewater property is I ideal for Land Rover in case I mentioned this is for a Land Rover dealership uh due to its close Highway proximity not withstanding the ordinance we believe this this is a proposed use that fits very well with the surrounding area not only does this add significant value to the Bridgewater Community but it also benefits all of Somerset County residents by providing a convenient location for Land Rover vehicle services this will eliminate the need for residents to have to travel long distances to either Edison or Princeton so Somerset County and Bridgewater Township in particular deserves a dealership of this caliber to serve its residents and further support the areas already vibrant in successful retail and restaurant establishments uh the applicant is also seeking bulk variances which will be discussed in further detail during our presentation these include relief related to signage the number of loading spaces loading and parking space sizes and setback relief for the proposed building and parking area notably all the setback relief being sought is consistent with the setbacks of the surrounding properties and buildings within this portion of the Route 22 Corridor uh Mr McDon will testify uh that the properties in the GC Zone fronting along this section of Route 22 due to their size and configuration physically or realistically would not be able to comply with the setback requirement set forth in the ordinance um I thought the board and the public may be amused to know that this application is part of a national roll out or rebranding by Land Rover so I'm going to refer to as as Land Rover but Land Rover will no longer be known as a single brand moving forward there will be three distinct Brands Range Rover Defender and Discovery so again while I may refer to the umbrella Land Rover term throughout the hearing The Branding structure is is partially uh the reason or or or really the main reason why we've submitted the signage pack signage package in connection with this application so just some major points of emphasis I would like the board and the public to be Ware of uh is that the applicant went to Great Lengths to design the site plan to ensure that no parking would be located in the front the front of the property only has display areas for vehicles with no General parking spaces I also just want to add that due to locations of the proposed storm water detention basins in the front of the property vehicles cannot and will not be allowed to be parked in the front yard in the grass areas the applicant as a condition of approval is willing to stipulate that all vehicles must must be parked in the appropriately designated parking spaces on site and again the applicant took concerns about front yard parking very seriously and was committed to creating a model dealership uh in appearance for Bridgewater Township similarly the applicant formally commits not to parking or allowing any cars to be parked in the fire access Lanes or emergency lanes um in preparing for tonight's hearing I and our team recognized that signage would likely be a major sticking point for the board so I like to take what I perceive to be any of those sticking points head on uh and early on in the application process so the need for relief for the three fre freestanding signs stems in part from the presence of three distinct Brands as IID mentioned earlier the the square footage uh of the signage may appear like a large number on paper but the actual design is is tasteful Simple and Clean the the signage proposal comes directly from Land Rover's National rebranding strategy to ensure consistency across all dealerships Nationwide so this sign package it's it's Land Rovers hope that this sign package will be implemented across the country it's envisioned that that each vehicle brand will have a freestanding sign um and the idea is to create a recognizable brand image but yet with low impact um another thing I just thought the board should be aware of right off the start is that the signs will sit back approximately 90 ft from Route 22 if you include the 70 foot right of way thus F further minimizing their visual impact so while it's technically a setback at 20 feet from the property line its impact will be felt by the public based upon uh approximately 95 ft of a setback from the highway um the applicant intends to call six Witnesses who will provide testimony and support of this application our first witness is David fcy he's uh development manager for Paul Miller and a represented of the applicant and he's going to start off by providing some operational testimony and some background to the board about this application uh Mark Walker is our professional engineer uh we're going to have two architects um address the architectural testimony Dan Balo and James Hunter we have Craig perago here our traffic and engineer and traffic expert and then we're going to conclude with John mcdna who's going to put the proofs on the record to support the variance relief for seeking this evening um I just have a few few housekeeping items from the professional review memos I'd like to just discuss and put on the record uh the application received no objections from Traffic Safety in the police department zoning officer and environmental uh and health officer we did receive a fire review memo uh dated January 27th 2025 from Mr Scalera which I I thank him for getting that over to us it's very helpful and uh I'll leave it to our professionals to discuss that in Greater detail although we don't have I don't believe there's any issues with complying with the with the suggestions and we'll confirm the fire truck template that we used to calculate the turning radius we also received a store utility memo dated January 10th 2025 for Mr goova director of store utility and the appli can comply with all of those review comments we received an engineering review memo dated January 23rd 2025 from the board's engineer Bill Burr uh we will obviously provide testimony as requested we can comply with most of the requested revisions unless we otherwise indicate this evening uh notably I can go through these um I'll try to say them slowly but we can comply with A6 on page three A8 and B2 no Mike I'd rather do that with Tony fine no problem um so on that note uh Mr chairman if I could have actually let me just confirm that the that our notice Mr oler was was proper there's a couple things so yes so uh the board does have jurisdiction notice was in proper form sent by certified mail on January 3rd published on the same day so the board has uh jurisdiction what I'd like to do is get your six Witnesses up we'll swear everybody in and while they're coming up let me just make a correction on something I said before I just heard from a little birdie that um the Starbucks application is going to be um uh heard on February 11th I think I previously said what did I say March 11 March 11th before so Starbucks is being carried to February 11th with no further notice from the applicant other than the publication okay for the public all right so why don't we get your six Folks up here and yes it's not February 11th No 3 here correct the record Mr Starbucks we announced from the agenda would be the the original announcement was fine on that it's 1200 route22 they were initially scheduled for 211 they've requested an adjournment for scheduling that for 325 so with I'm sorry Starbucks Starbucks I just care about Starbucks right right so starbox is correct the continuance on 311 on 311 so I was right the first time so 1,200 yes I don't care about that that's a new notice anyway yeah okay so so again for the public Starbucks is um being carried to March 11th without further notice okay everybody else is new notice anyway so I don't care all right if you guys would all stand up Raise Your Right hands everybody do you solemnly swear that the testimony you give to this board would be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God okay go my left or right if you would just for the record State your names please M Mark Walker thank you everyone we're good to go I'm going to call my my first witness which is David FY and you want well m m Mr silbert I got to ask you so you wanted to talk about signs up front you wanted to take it on head on I mean do you want to talk signage first first off that's a good suggestion would you are you okay doing that no these are your words I know if you want hear was my words do you do you want to see if we can tackle that issue sure it's not a problem I don't know if you wanted to hear the history and every you know why we're here listen I just Mr silbert said he wanted to attack at head on I know some of the other board members wanted to talk about it I'd love to talk about it all right let's let's look at the signs ma'am can I help you in the green shirt back there hard to hear okay gotcha we'll make sure we'll get everybody on microphone can you hear me hi can you hear me okay yeah sometimes people don't talk in the microphone so we we we'll keep on then yes ma'am not right now that's going to be for later not Starbucks can we clarify mam okay okay okay okay we have proof we have proofs from the applicant's attorney that they were mailed on time that's all he has to do if the post office doesn't deliver it it's not on the applicant so however long it takes for the post office to deliver that's just what it is the law says that he has to mail them at least 10 days prior to the hearing which he did Rich just clarify I thought I heard her say that this is Starbuck is oh and this is not the Starbucks application are you here for Starbucks this is the Paul Miller auto application no no those are for Paul Miller Starbucks is is bouncing around a little but it Starbucks is on uh will be March 11th March 11th correct correct three times I understand they they had to they had to be adjourned so Starbucks is not tonight Starbucks is March 11th yes okay you're welcome all right Mr silbert all yours you Mr all right so for the record can we just have your name please no hello can you hear me now better James Hunter registered architect in the state of New Jersey for 26 years um and that was Hunter h n t t r okay okay and for the benefit of the board can you just give a little bit of more information about your background so that the board can accept you as a uh professional witness of course I'm the uh senior vice president of design with EI Associates I have been in registered architect for over 30 years in different states I have provided testimony in New Jersey and Pennsylvania on a variety of different projects and uh I am well aware of the uh the intention of the signs and the nature of the design so ready to speak on all right this board accepts you as an expert in architecture and on signage great thank you very much why don't we Mark that before we get too far into what it is okay A1 we can Mark that exhibit it looks like proposed layout exhibit mark it as A1 yep date on there let's see the date is 12825 yes and this exhibit is prepared by Mark Walker who will be our um engineering expert okay all right so I'm putting this uh relating to the the site plan just to indicate location of the signage there's signage on the building as you can see in the in drawing this is exhibit two so this was submitted with our application so I don't know if you want to mark it well it's let's mark it because so we which shows the signage that will appear on the building as well as freestanding signs that we're proposing what sheet is that we so we'll mark this exhibit as A2 and it's entitled site and building signage details sheet A3 of the architectural what page is this on A3 in the archit tal we'll mark it as an exhibit A2 only because we're going to keep bouncing back to it so that's fine site and building what is it sight and building signage details thank you so drawing A3 indicates the different signage that we are proposing for the building some of which are on the building and others that we were proposing three freestanding signs out front as Michael had mentioned the Land Rover name is changing to three separate Brands Range Rover Defender and Discovery because of that change the idea is to have three separate signs each with The Branding image of those different names these will be staggered relate back to the site plan here in this location as you're driving up to the site okay so it's in this location right here so the idea that these are staggered these are three three different signs to indicate the three different brands that this the dealership is come out one more time where the three are going to the location sir please okay right down here right at the entrance to the site why can't you put why can't you put three names on one sign well this aligns with the image of developing and being this the national uh first uh store uh dealership with the with this branding it's a strong image to present three different signs just as it would be if there are three different dealerships on the site we went to emphasize the fact that it's three different names for three different vehicles that are being uh sold at this facility couldn't you do that on one side well again this is relating to how the we want to Brand the the uh the sales of the vehicles to give each its own image and it aligns with the signage that would be on the building itself um do we have the building elevation here this is drawing A2 elevations Mr rer do we want to just mark this architect hands yeah why don't we do that uh the application so the the building mounted signs there are also three separate signs one for each brand yes correct right here you can see them here I can't see them from that far so I can help help me just tell me what they say Range Rover Defender Discovery okay three different brand names that align with the the rationel why we don't have the three different signs out front thank you that's facing that's this is the front of of the building facing the stre on the drop off area side or on the five display spaces on I'm looking I'm sorry what was that question sir I'm facing we're looking at the building the drop off area is here and then the five display spaces is on the left is that on the right side facing the building yes right is that uh design element part of the corporate branding guidelines or is that uh a franchise decision that's the The Branding for the corporate it's it's corporate decisions it's notor decided by the by the ultimate operator and and Mr Hunter notably what's what type of sign is not there what name isn't there Land Rover okay so there there will be no signage indicating Land Rover correct okay talk about the color is there are those in color I see the plan the print out obviously it's a black and white print out are there are those letter is that lettering in color and also the sign the freestanding signs free standing signs will be different colors and we have samples that we'll be sharing shortly yeah and the letters are all white and we'll be illuminated from behind Mr chairman I have a question and maybe this is for Rich if if we do approve the three different signs would that be setting a precedent that you know Ford would say I want one for Mustang and all of their different vehicle types I'm surprised it took more than five minutes to get to that question so you know it's um it it potentially could lead to other car dealers requesting individual signs for their various model types right because this isn't three car dealers shop right when when you when you when if I were to go there to buy a car am I dealing with three different car dealerships or one that's what I wanted that's why I wanted to call Mr FY cuz he was going to explain um this is if you don't mind would it would it be okay if if Mr FY testified to this all right I'm calling a time out so Mr silbert yes you did your first case here you've done a lot of cases here I saw you did a great job with the Chick-fil-A in front of the planning board you know how this works MH you teed off your case said you'd like to take the signage head-on that's okay so now I get to say something okay I've been on this board for 11 2014 uh Sweeny Mrs Amin have been on here a lot longer um the corridor that you see that runs you know essentially from the Bridgewater Commons all the way through Greenbrook does have many auto dealers each of those auto dealers has one sign in front there's also been particular attention paid by previous zoning boards and planning boards to create an aesthetic along this Corridor this includes trees it includes design elements that are conducive to why people move to bridgew in the first place so that's all I'm going to say I'm going to put it on the record that each of those dealers and I can rattle them off because I drove to them all last night and today Volkswagen dealer one the Jeep Fullerton has three dealer has three different types on one sign Acura has one unlit sign which I I was surprised by Lexus one sign Chevrolet one sign Nissan one sign uh infinity one sign for sades Benz one sign so with that said um I'm not going to kick off tonight an arms race amongst the dealers because that's what happens and it started with Chevrolet came in here asked for a a 100t triple digit sign and this board said no Lexus came in 2 years later asked for a 65 ft sign and I think they Ed the term that the sign we wanted was unavailable and myself and Mr Sweeney we called Lexus we went on their website and we found a design package element lo and behold that fit our criteria so a lot of people have been here before you did your first case and have worked very very hard to prot protect the aesthetic and the design elements on that Corridor we don't want it to look like Union Springfield we want it to look like Bridge Water so that's all I'm going to say so you can do your case however you want but you brought up the sign I wanted to put it on the record but it's your case so please feel free noted thank you and um so I'll I'll wait to to call Mr finy to address the board's questions about the The Branding um we can Mr Hunter if you want to just conclude your testimony on on the signs obviously we're getting good feedback from the board here and it is noted and I just want uh Mr Hunter to conclude his testimony and um after he's done our team will will'll huddle up if that's okay Mr chairman okay thank you um again the signage on the building is indicated on the drawing and we've discussed the three sign situation and the specifics of the proposed is is listed as well here um and the materials that these signs would be made of we have an example that we will share with you at that at a later for our second testimony by Mr Baro couple questions um the actual lettering what's the size of the lettering the lettering is three inches high three inches high right so do you are you concerned at all that the um motorists will be able to see the the lettering or is that not really the intent well obviously we would get the name there so people can see it but there's not a glar it's not you know something of of being an eyesore this blends with the nature of the building and uh again goes back to the different names of the of the I guess I guess what my question is is the intent in your in your opinion is the intent for motorists to recognize Land Rover dealerships in the future because they see these three signs configured or is it because they're supposed to read the the language or the the writing on the sign well the signage is of course the the lettering is the most important because you want to see the name Nam and obviously the three align with the different brand names so so just looking at the plan I just want to make sure that I have this right and we'll move on it looks like if the if the lettering is only 3 in it looks like it'd be very difficult for a motorist that's 95 ft driving westbound on Route 22 to see the sign lettering you any any position on that no I'd agree that you know from a distance it's difficult to read but you would get the image of the three as being the indicator of you know the building okay all right so um do you have any simulations that you could show us that could prove that fact I'm sorry sir any simulations any photo Sims that you could show the board that would represent what this would look like in this situation uh nothing more than what we have here what dealership are they looking for though if it's not Land Rover it doesn't say Land Rover what is the dealership that they're trying to find I that's an excellent question and I would like to defer that question to my my next witness who's going to explain the rebranding from Land Rover and perhaps it's very misleading for me to continue calling it Land Rover um because there are there are going to be three distinct Brands here um I've used that umbrella term you know early on in the application process and learned that they were doing this National roll out with three distinct Brands but if I could have my our next witness uh address that question while we're there you you keep emphasizing you know three brands once a a client or customer is in the dealership and say they want to finance it are there three separate Finance departments good question I'd defer that again to our next witness but it's a good question okay TR do you have anything anything further on concluded okay unless there's any other questions that's a great question thank you very much other questions in the board yeah a little confused here all right you have three signs you want to put out close to 22 correct correct how tall are they 11 each one is about six 16 foot three High 16 feet I and you're saying how big is the lettering the lettering is three inches three in how why would on Earth would you put up a 16 and2 foot sign with 3inch lettering I mean I wouldn't be able to see it depends on the distance that from the sign yes sir what I mean 3 in is this compared to a thing 10t taller than I am I'm being realistic I mean at least if you drive past Acura and I did the at least you can see where you going I wouldn't be able to see it to turn in so most of the signs are going to be empty empty space so why would you need three signs to Brand yourself when you you could probably put 15 different names on 16 and a half fet it's my point is it if I can um piggyback off of that question and and perhaps it's a I'm I'm hoping it's a good example but is it similar to the the the McDonald's golden arches you see golden arches it doesn't have to say McDonald's you know it's McDonald's obviously this is a totally different business model but is that possibly what corporate is going for with with this yes it's it's an image of the three I so my question is do you have a place where you have this set up somewhere else in a different area where we can actually see what it looks like to me it looks absolutely ridiculous this is the this is the first this is the national roll out thanks Bridgewater Township has been chosen to uh as the municipality uh in the country to have this National roll out Sil you're a smart guy you understand what an armed race is Right advertising I do understand so so what do you think I'm saying here I I um Mr chairman your concern is that you're going to start an arms race with all of the other dealerships that look at this new dealership and they see that they have three signs where the heck is their three signs why is the stealership special do you think this would be a similar example if Lexus had a 45 foot sign and you were asking for a 46 foot sign I think that that would be um more reasonable of a request based upon the the very minor deviation where in Bridgewater Township one freestanding sign is is permitted and we're requesting three and and and you're you're in agreement with my assessment of the aesthetic and you know what the the different land use boards over the history of Bridgewater T have tried to achieve in this area Mr chairman I am okay all right thank you thank you and follow up again sorry so um to sort of piggyback on my finance question when a client walks into to the dealership are there going to be separate salesmen for each of the three brands as you call them I call them models but stick with Brands I I don't personally know the answer to that question so that's why I'd want our operational uh expert and our pal and our representative from Paul milary answer that question the next witness I will call all right let's just any more board questions uh professionals question I'm just going to weigh in things can you just provide I know these are three separate freestanding signs but from the plan they appear to be very close together can you just provide what the distance between the signs are believe it is three feet they're staggered they're they're staggered so visually if there if it's three feet separation is it does it look like a three foot Gap or does it look like less than three feet do they look closer together it depend as as you would go travel by it because obviously they be sorry i' got my mic in hands but it would be like this and then another one back here so they can almost appear like one wall in in some from some perspective um you mentioned um that the this is this is the color scheme the Grays and black we'll have some samples that of that mimic the colors okay um as far as the ratio I think this has come up you have a ratio of the of the lettering to the total square footage for each panel 2% here's the samples I do not have that off the top of we can calculate it give me give me one second it's about 1% of lettering to to square footage I only bring that up in the context of the variance which will be under the purview of the planner to to testify to but um you know that's just something to consider for the board that's about 1% of of word to to the total sign area and and signage I understand it has an aesthetic it has an artistic element to it it has a branding element to it but signage is also intended to be a wayfinding a place finding sign it's supposed to be for safety for Motors motorists so uh just keep that in mind I guess for the board really um and for the applicant to consider as um if there are any revisions um I know we've been talking about um this being um kind of a a corporate identifier for the new branding um have you looked at signage on Route 22 other signage not necessarily car dealerships but other signage for freestanding masonry signs things like that I've done some research on that to to align with this but obviously it's this is three are there any other signs that are similar in nature not necessarily for uh for a car dealership again are there any other signs that are you know just kind of a wall like a a larger sign I imine there are I can't think of any off the top of my head but again you know it's something that as you travel by it it does change its imagery there are there are I will say that there are signs that I I find to be similar they may have um name panels or things like that on it that may look different but in the dark they may look very similar to this um and so I I also want the applic applicant to consider of how this sign May uh appear at different times of day to especially to motorists who are trying to find a place and may um if this is the only identifier without words how they may perceive the sign especially when there are signs that are similar in nature that may not be lit like this one um so that's just considerations I guess for as we're as we're looking through the sign package and then the final thing is that if this is the first corporate roll out it's not the first time I've seen a corporate kind of um from the top down of how signage packages or Aesthetics need to look but if this is the first one then it's not really Bound by other other existing ones and I think that that should be a consideration to be brought back to corporate um about the feedback we have here because hopefully it will be helpful and I hope they're not set in stone about what the package has to look like in Bridgewater thank you the only question I have is will you be providing testimony on the architecture of the building and the exterior lighting or you have another architect for that absolutely have another architect who's going to be tested not Mr Hunter correct correct this is just uh to deal with the signage okay that's all I had thank you thank you Jeff can I ask just one question of our board professionals so if they go to a sign back to their sign company and they say listen make these thing make us one sign put a little angle in it and make it staggered as it's one sign and they come back is it still too big if they make it the same size as it is right now yes combined together all three together 250 sare ft right now in sum um so like they they're only allowed 100 square feet exactly okay I just I just want to make sure personally I don't really care what your sign looks like I mean as long as it conforms to the zoning but that's basically that to me is a is a big deal you know just saying you know it's not just necessarily about the fact that it's three for me it's that it's put all three together you could see in this image you can see it's a wall you can see it's a staggered wall so okay thank you all right thank you Mr Fresco uh members of the public questions on the signage testimony you've heard all right seen none back to you thank you um Mr fce if I can have one minute based upon all the feedback that we just received to consult my team and I would like to call our operational uh witness but I just want to consult with the team for one moment if that's okay y thank you uh in the meantime why don't we use this to I had skipped the public portion of our meeting so rich with your permission I want to open it up to members of the public that are here tonight that would like to speak on any land use issue that is not on our agenda and let the record reflect that no one is here to seek the public comment portion and we're going to close that we're going to reopen the case that we just heard okay Rich yes all right thank you yes on there all right so um Mr chairman of the board thank you very much for for indulging uh indulging us here so I would like to uh call David fcy who's a development manager at Paul Miller uh he's a representative of the applicant and I'll uh I'll let you introduce yourself if you could just spell your last name for us uh epison Frank yep I is in India n is in Nancy T is in Tom Z is in zebra Y is in yellow thank you sir welcome what what is your title with Paul Miller uh dealer development director thank you so I do all the construction real estate the dealership all right um so just to kind of give a little history first I guess based on what we just did I'm going to talk a little bit about Land Rover um obviously a few years ago we kind of started to make a deal on getting a dealership in the Somerset County area um and there was a lot of talk about where to have it and all that kind of stuff and they look into a lot of demographics and things and how luxury brands do in in an area and that kind of stuff and the population and highways and all that stuff and obviously between them and us we decided that Bridgewater was the perfect spot for it also being distances away from other Land Rover dealerships so when people driving um it wouldn't take that long obviously we have a Land Rover dealership up in Paran so it's a 30 35 minute drive to get to that so it's it's a long way to get to any land any dealerships and when we started with them it was a Land Rover dealership and that's why the application was Land Rover by the way um fast forward just in in that part now that they gave us the letter of intent and we had to look for land and we're doing all that stuff Land Rover which is is a company out of the United States decided to change their name and not just change their name where you guys and I know what you're thinking it's three different it's cars it's not three different models it's three different brands so it's to them it's like putting Toyota Honda and Subaru in the same building that's why they did this whole three signage thing um it is new obviously the actual image and that's why he talks about where the initial one hasn't officially been brought out for anybody to do it yet we would kind of be first on that if we get approvals um they have gotten a lot of dealer feedback on their signage just so you know um it's not something that already not necessarily about the three sign is it's more about what you talked about it's a big sign threein letters it's 95 ft from the road no no one could read it and they go that's not what we're going for it's an image it's a look each sign is a different color the way it's staggered it's a luxury brand look not that you know it's cuz someone coming to get a Range Rover they were coming to get it it's not like they were driving down the road and they go Range Rover and they turn in so it's kind of more of an image than it is a signage to them and as dealers and maybe it's just in the United States we feel differently but in the end we're a Fran franchise kind of like McDonald's we don't get to say we want different arches scenario so that's kind of been our problem and just so you know we have argued against it because we're thinking it's advertising to have your name up there and nobody could read it you know making it so small so we we that's where all of that came from just so you know um just to give some overview on that so it is three different brands not three different models like so um are these vehicles are they manufactured in the same facility Well they have more than one plant but yes a couple of them are thank you yeah and I get it it's it's them well again we're a franchise not a manufacturer so we're we're we're Bound by certain things um I do appreciate all the feedback because it's not back didn't expect and we haven't ourselves brought up as an issue um so it's it's one that's understood but there more on it's a an image and a look more than it's a sign excuse me I I get the impression from your comments and the way you're delivering them that you do not agree with what they're proposing to do and it sounds as though many of the US Steelers may agree with that I can't speak for other dealers okay just we speak for ourselves yes yes I would hang on hang on I'm not done I like what they have hang on a minute hang on a minute is is that true do you agree that this is a good move for I don't even know what to call them Paul Miller Land Rover Defender da you know that they should be doing this what's your opinion my personal opinion is no your your opinion as the dealer development man my opinion is for those of you that go out and look at these cars Range Rover is its own standard no one goes calls it a Land Rover Range Rover it's a Range Rover right no one ever uses it it's not like it's a Toyota 4Runner or to where you put the name in front of it that brand unto its own does kind of have its own image least do so I understand why they're doing that why they are separating it out um because of the panach and all that stuff of that image so I don't I dis I agree with that the only thing I personally and it's personal it's not necessarily a PO is that 3-in lettering on a signment that you know you can't read it doesn't make sense to me either but it's not something I get to change we could argue it but if in the end they say you want the dealership this is what it's three-inch lettering or nothing else I have to do three-inch lettering that we don't want three giant signs that puts us in a different position if obviously the town if a town came and said you can't have it well right now that that's what the reg said I get to go to him and go it's not our decision now now you know that were you were you in the room when I spoke to Mr silbert a few minutes ago seriously were you in the room yes I was yeah no I was did you hear what I said I did hear what you said how many other dealers have more than one sign designating their brain in front of their dealership in Bridgewater Township none that I know of in Bridgewater okay I know in other towns I don't know of one in Bridgewater like our BMW store has more than one sign out front in Bridgewater what in Bridgewater in Wayne no I'm saying in other towns we have it so you heard what I said yeah in Bridgewater I don't know of one I don't for any other zoning boards in other towns I work for for Township of I work for the the people of of bridge order Township so you heard what I said I heard what you said I and please no no disrespect I didn't nothing that you said I said we won't allow if you I mean if you say you won't allow it I'm I hear I could hear that I know you were trying to say do you understand what I mean Mr FY if I could just ask a question we've heard a lot of feedback already on the signage uh component of this application can you commit to going back to is speaking to to Land Rover uh about the signage now that we've heard the feedback from the township yes if the based on the feedback being no absolutely because no no there's been no vote feedback is one voting member and I put on the record the fact of there's only one sign in front of each dealer designating what brand they represent now I do know in Somerville the Jeep dealer I just looked it up on Google Maps they happen to have one sign that represents four of their brands right but that's not Bridgewater that's Somerville but they found a way to do it and I said that's I said I I I hear your feedback and based on the feedback sounding like the answer is no I will go talk to that yes we will have that have that if Mr silbert would like us to vote I can call for a motion and no thank you Mr chairman okay no no we we've heard the board's feedback and we're going to do what we can on our end to change the sign plan but thank you very much for letting us present the signed plan we have a lot uh more of the application to present this evening and I can say 100% uh definitively we hear the board's feedback we understand the board's feedback not feedback or or the facts that the board is pointing out understood not feedback it's facts surrounding area and Bridgewater it was there's no opinion put on the record regarding your signs I just wanted you to understand that every other dealer has one sign designating their brand that they represented and Mr Fry I think we should um we we should move on okay um so obviously we were rewarded the Fran the franchise um with a letter of intent based on us finding property just so you know we've I've worked with a lot of properties to try and find it and obviously you only have one zone that allows car dealerships which is a little area on Route 202 um I did speak to Eminem realy multiple times and negotiated with them multiple times and sat with them multiple times um but uh having had already had their approvals for a warehouse they were unwilling to uh that would be a manufacturing facility yes I know they he calls it a warehouse just more facts for you because it's not a warehouse manufacturing I apologize I don't know what it was he just says Warehouse want to correct the yeah um I even went to the couple of uh Office Buildings just north of them one would not sell the other one would consider selling but had leases till 29 and 30 which our letter of intent will expire and therefore we wouldn't have the franchise at that point anymore so obviously I couldn't do them either so we did make efforts there made lots of efforts up and down Route 22 um I spoke to center point I spoke to that property next to Mercedes on both sides of Mercedes which was the holiday in at one point and then across cross the little Street on the other side that I think also was doing either manufacturing or warehousing um I spoke to the motel but they have that shared entrance and stuff which is a problem for a dealership um and the guy with Red Lobster wouldn't give up and then of course Red Lobster went out of business um I spoke with Safa um I've been up and down the strip talking to a lot of different people trying to find the right property um this property was not actually for sale I just ended end up calling the dealer and saying what are you doing with that property next you know that other piece and he was like well eventually I might just use it for parking would you want to sell it instead so that's really how this property came about own it you own it or you have a letter with we own it um so that's how this this property came about um you know the the other interesting fact about this property just give you a little bit of History uh I'm Paul Miller so Paul Miller's father was the president of ganette newspapers which owned The Courier News and from 1974 to 1977 Paul Miller himself was in that building as the publisher before he went into the car business in 1978 so it's kind of a full circle moment buying back the property he actually worked at when he was a young man in his 20s um as a publisher so kind of funny how that turned out that after all the property I looked at I ended up comeing with that and I did not know that when I came to him with the property and he was like you're not going to believe this so kind of an interesting footnote there um I guess uh moving on to operations and I'll get to hours and do that stuff but I just want to answer I know you had some questions everybody in the store deals with all three brands there'll be one business manager there'll be you know three salespeople you know one one sales manager one general manager you know one service department so for for everything so it doesn't break up internally other than internally in the showroom there's three sections each designated with the name in that section and stuff and their car is only in that section separate sales people for each car no no everything's is one inside except that like I said this the showroom will be like when you walk in you'll see a sign over here with a wall that says Range Rover and that's where the Range Rover stuff is and then there'll be a Defender section and a discovery section according to their current image plans that they've given me which by the way is confidential but I know there's a public meeting and this I told them there's nothing I can do about it it's going to get out there I can't change the fact that I have to talk about it thank you so is it going to have three but is it going to be po Miller Defender Paul Miller Range Rover yeah they don't let us use the the name Paul Miller in so it's three different address it's just Range Rover Defender and Discovery so you're going where are you going I'm going to the Range Rover store or the defender store that's what you that's what they think is is how they're doing The Branding yes three addresses and yes we're like I said we are is that true you could have three addresses no no no it's one it's like three destinations one address and I don't know if it matters but obviously we were given an address of 1207 which we didn't initially have so and Paul Miller owns numerous dealerships yes so I was going to so Paul Miller we we currently own uh 11 dealers you know brands in dealership so we have a bunch of high lines so I mean I can go through where where Rolls-Royce Bentley Porsche Land Rover uh BMW Audi any of those premium brands have three monstrous signs uh BMW actually has two monsterous signs we got like a 60 something foot sign and we got another 20 something foot sign not in Bridge order right not a brid one got you right um so at the three signes um or the three different brands yes could you open up a dealership with just one of the brands or is it all or nothing it it's all it's well when I say all on none so many of you might know there's currently Land Rover Jaguar is a combined in dealerships we're not bringing Jaguar so we we said we would not we're not doing that brand okay so excluding Jaguar if you if you wanted to sell one of these Brands you have to have all three you have to have all three okay so the identity would never be sort of an individual correct brand on any of these properties I think they pair well together so they want to keep it together because obviously again building a dealership for just discovery might not make Financial sense with how much it costs to build the buildings for just the one of them so that's kind of how you pair kind of that's why you like you know Chrysler does that with Jeep and other brands because you know just to put Chrysler on its own or Dodge on its own they can't make it on their own they need the other brand to support the the building would they ever stand alone they're always they're always all going to be together they're all what they're always all going to be together there's not going to just the three of them yeah it's four of them but we're not taking the it's always going to be the Land Rover cars in the same yeah won't just be range right and jaguar just rebranded as well I know that we're not doing Jaguar I'm not sure they sell cars anymore we will not have Jaguar there but the the defender at all company is part of jaguar and jaguar also rebranded correct within the last two months oh so again so Land Rover has these three that we're talking about currently right Land Rover bought Jaguar so they're they always stay as two separate fans but they're both under the umbrella of tat important and Mr Silber can probably address this as you're his client is that land use approvals run with the uh site we don't care about what happens with the brands and the rebranding and the companies and the corporate ownership ultimately if you get approval for three signs those three signs can run forever so again that's why we take this so seriously L we're not trying to to to create a problem for you from a marketing or a cash flow perspective but ultimately that the land use approvals and again Mr sber can advise you further that they run with the property that's why there's such a push back against three signs when every other dealership in Bridgewater has won I understand just so you know that where we're coming okay I understand y Mr Mr FY let's um we've spoken a lot about branding so there are a lot of things that are um routine or or normal about this dealership let's talk about um things that are consistent with this dealership with other dealerships in Bridgewater can you talk a little bit about the number of employees um hours of operation get into that that sure so you're you're talking about you know 24 employees um when we open you know things go really well it couldn't go up over years to to another four to eight employees maybe kind of thing over time with where most of that would be like another salesperson and maybe a couple more mechanics and an answer you know and a service writer or something like that so it's not a lot more people um you know based on the size that it that it's projected to be and if and if you have uh 26 employees or 30 employees in that range are they all working on the on the same day no and so you're you're talking on any given day uh probably two to six off because there's more off on a Saturday so any given day you're going to have two to six people that are not there so initially when there's 24 probably on the biggest day on a Monday there might be 22 people working and on a Saturday they might be 18 working and we haven't gotten into to the actual site plan layout but um will there be uh designated employee parking on the property yes there will okay and then since you kind of spoke about this a little bit when you were speaking about the number of employees expected let's talk about the hours of operation you can um so Monday through Thursday it's uh 7:30 to 8:00 p.m. uh Friday 7:30 to 6:00 and Saturday 7:30 to 5 or 5:30 I can't we haven't really decided so it's going to be somewhere in that range okay and Sunday we're closed um overnight storage of vehicles speak to that a little bit what what do you anticipate new car uh invent inventory vehicles that you're servicing used car yes so obviously uh you know we're going to try try and keep when you look at the plan the new car inventory in the back for safety reasons um unfortunately Land Rovers are highly sought after installing vehicle um so they're going to be in the back I mean we're talking about having probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 to 50 maybe in stock um in general obviously there are times Co when it's a lot less and there could be times where it can go up a little bit too but 30 to 50 each brand or total total of all of them so you going to have used cars also selling them and then there's going to be used cars which we also we have out kind of on the side MH with on that number that number you're probably talking about somewhere near 30 you're talking approximately Le 60 cars new and used there most of the time yeah yeah you know and yeah and and I'll leave it out because it's not a lot in the showroom you're only going to be talking about three or four cars in the showroom obviously that then there'll be obviously service cars that are left you know that that can't be fixed same day kind of scenario or someone drops off and can't pick it up for doesn't come back for three days have loners we will have loners for people so you know you're you're talking in on the service side probably another 40 to 50 cars with the looners and people's cars being on the lot in terms of the parking you're going to have handicap parking yes and uh electric charging station yes both correct thank you and uh Mr feny can you just talk about uh deliveries because we we spoke about that yesterday different types describe common deliveries to the property whether it be new vehicles or yes so you'll get new vehicle deliveries obviously with what you're hearing I'm saying it a month it's probably maybe two to three a week at maximum and they will be dropped off on the lot we've made it so that they can drive in unload and then drive back out um and I'm sure someone will attest to that part yeah we'll have her we speak to that you know that's really our biggest vehicle there's a parts delivery which isn't as big anywhere near as a car carrier U more of a box truck kind of thing a 48t kind of or smaller um those deliveries are actually in the middle of the night when we're closed when no one's there they just come they have access to get into Parts drop off their cages and leave um are they part of your group then the delivery people what's say it again people that come and deliver at night can get in an access and they par yes they have their own access they they just stop unload and leave are they part of your group or no no that's that's from the manufacturer hires a company to deliver Parts um like any car dealership it's a same for that um outside of that obviously you're going to have some tow trucks a car had to be towed in um you're going to have UPS you know Amazon those kind of trucks come by and deliver stuff and you're going to have uh an oil truck for the local oil to change the oil in the cars security at night no so that gets into a little bit of lighting and we have some fencing in the back to to protect the uh some gating security Personnel no security Personnel at this time um other than the the signs the brand branding thing is there anything else in the application that's about branding that you can tell us about inside outside where that's what I said the inside is just the show will be in like three sections there a a range over section there's a Defender section and there's a discovery section that's the only thing like inside that's going to make it different so the only branding thing is really those is a signage and the and that brand because each of those sections will have a branding of a sign inside also that says Range Rover and stuff yes thank you um just few other operational questions uh based upon the size of of of this store or this dealership what's what's a good day what type of uh of traffic would you expect to the to the site how many customers are coming in are they predominantly service customers are they in the business of pying a new car what what what do you see you're going to get more service customers than you are sales customers you're probably talking on a on any given day you know on a weekday probably sales-wise five customers on a weekend 8 to 10 on sales uh service you're probably talking about about 5 to 10 a day on a given day I think that that covers the uh operational questions I had Mr fency said five to 10 service service calls a day yeah how many bays are you going to have in the building I don't have the pl it's 10 Bays right now thank you so what it works the way Land Rover works I mean I I wish to say something better but way you end up getting a car it goes up on the lift you find out what's wrong you got to order the park s it stays on your lift you do a different car on a different lift and it's stuck on that lift till the when the parts come in you don't have a parts depart so although you have 10 lifts it's not like it's equates to 10 technicians all right are you planning on having a parts department we do but there's a lot of parts that to have for for a Range Rover and a and a different because in within Range Rover there's models of Range Rover so there's five six different models are there like customary parts that that you would have there yeah there customary obviously Phil when you're changing your oil and regular maintenance Parts you have but when some wiring or some you know things that break the car down you might not necessarily have that stuff in stock Mr silbert this is the only witness you have from the Paul Miller group itself correct correct all right so I I'd like to ask a few questions on your Volkswagen dealership which is about a quar mile West that's not our Volkswagen dealership that's not yours that's open road okay the concern that was expressed to me by a councilman they thought it was your dealership but apparently it's not is that when their cars get offloaded that it blocks the fire lane so they asked me to ask you for a stipulation that under no circumstances whether used new or any cars that are delivered that you would not block any fire lanes and put that in the resolution if that was okay if you were to be approved yes great stipulated thank you and and just as as an aside I you know looking at at the design I know um you know people don't necessarily like car dealerships because of all the cars that we stack in the front of a dealership and I I took pains to change this dealership and convince Paul Miller and lar to clear out the front and not have that whole front of cars I mean I passed that Volkswagen store where they go down the whole drive out to the highway that stop which looks terrible but zoning officer has has stopped it and I think it stop you if you guys but I we took pains to get rid of that cuz that is what the car dealership is because you want to people to see what you're selling not put it in the back and I'm putting it in the back okay and try to make it a a much more pleasant front so there'll never be any cars out front there are some like we you I'll have to show the thing there are some like like a like where we like the demos like you'd come and you'd want to drive a car and you get there's like five cars of those and a couple on display right outside the glass of the showroom like on the on the patio I'll call it but nothing out in like the front line kind of scenario and nothing that'll ever block a fire lane and nothing will block fire gotcha very good yeah you're still up in talking I just have a general business curiosity question also sure you're having three brands of cars there we did discover whatever yeah so you said new car inventory would run between 30 and 40 yeah 30 and 50 so that 30 and 50 that's not considered a high level of inventory for three different brands much less one so do the majority of people buy the new car off the lot or do they order one uh currently I would say at our current Land Rover store we're probably doing about 35 to 40% it's not on our ground okay so they order that so that just justifies having or it's an inbound or that kind of or eight week just to get into like what the what they figure are planning volume is they figure it's 30 cars a month new selling 30 cars in this market so 30 to 50 cars even in stock is that new and used or just just just new just new okay thank you other board questions board profession thank you I have a few um some of the estimations you've given are they based on your current operations at the other at your other location estimates on not the planning volume this number of service customers a day yes yes they're based on on on our Pary location and it's a similar size to it's much bigger bigger than this one okay yes much bigger okay um it has 36 Bay You' kind of heard a little bit about um some of the car dealerships and uh overflow of inventory and the site conditions as a result you mentioned you know a total of about anywhere from 60 to 80 new and used cars on the lot and then additionally like service customers laner cars all that stuff there's 145 spaces right now dedicated just to new and used storage plus display uh uh so that's another you know 65 spaces than what you're saying is you know estimated what what are those extra 65 spaces there so obviously everything I base is on what we think it is today and like any business obviously we hope to grow over time um I could tell you every one of my dealerships which have been there a long time don't have enough parking because if if you keep growing so the my current Land Rover here dealership as an example started at Pro I was there in the 90s at it we were selling 15 cars maybe a month now it sells 100 so different Market amounts of people in the area but we always want to prepare for more plus I want to prepare more even if I had to if service grew but sale again the we can't know how many are going to come from service it's not everybody that buys is going to come there are many people in this market that have to travel long way for service so if the service becomes bigger I might need more service spaces a little bit more and we just want to be able to have the flexibility that we didn't lock ourselves in and now we have too many cars and now where do we throw them and we got to go on the grass and we got to go you know which we don't want to do we want we want to look professional through and through yeah forever yeah there's a limitation on that certainly um that the cars will have to be parked in and paved parking spaces but I was just curious about the volume so the estimates you gave about inventory that's kind of your estimates based off of conservatively starting the business correct the planning volume they think we could do right off the bat okay [Music] um as far as the um storage of vehicles and I just wanted to make this clear on the record there won't be storage of vehicles from inventory from other dealerships on the site um you know it's going to be strictly for the for the business that's being conducted here correct yes as far as the used cars are those only um Range Rover Defender Discovery brand used cars or are there other used Brands within there obviously we will take trades of other brands there so there will be but you will if you were to go on the lot in general probably at least 70 to 80% is normally normally I can't say exactly because it varies based on trades but is normally your own brand on when I look at my other Highline stores okay um I think that's all I have for right now thank you just a couple questions um you had testified hours of operation starting every day 7:30 a.m. is that is that just for service service only when to sales won't open till 9: 9: okay and sales will be open till 8 and service will probably close depends on business anywhere from 6 to 7 so oh I I was going because it's one store so you said Monday through Thursday 7:30 to 8 that's total hours total hours between service and sales and sales right so then Friday and Saturday sales would go beyond 6 or 5:30 no so sales on Friday Sal Clos early we close early on those guys yep all right so 8 o'clock is the latest um how do you handle extinguishing or lowering your lights at your other dealerships in the off you know the close times so in the in I honestly at our other dealerships currently we don't actually have a A system that lowers lights um we've had a ongoing problem and are actually working with towns to fence in properties because of the ongoing theft problem at at my Highline Stores um is it something you would consider looking into as I'm not consider looking into it we definitely need enough light to deter and for cameras to see people to be able to call the police because unfortunately people will be coming on the lot and attempt to take cars I I wish that wasn't the case but you know we do everything we can we've even let police actually station on our lot at Land Rover in Paran and cars I mean we've had people running with a gun into the shop and steal and hold our people up and steal a car like it's just is that a frequent occurrence no the gun thing only occurred once in the last 10 years but okay theft of cars occurs they don't always get the car because of all the cameras we have but theft of cars occurs there a few times a year or the attempts unfortunately I think here we're in a different demographic and market and it's a little it'll be a little bit different and then right there as soon as you leave the lot you get in the left lane and you get on the highway it's it's a tenth of a mile the on-ramp so it's a it's a quick you're going 80 miles an hour you researched the Police Department response time have not we've done a much better job now in how we position our cameras and all that so when I do this store versus an old store right I'm going to have cameras out on the light poles right now everything's on the building because there's no wiring out there on our Lots now I get to actually position it like we just built a Porsche service center I have cameras everywhere we have not had a single incident yet car getting taken who's monitoring the cameras again I don't want him to divulge his operation okay on our fair enough so it's it's not critical to land use I don't want to cause any crime at your other D yeah I so right now the way we could set up cameras we could do a much better that's your business that's your business Mr bur we just need some lighting obviously you need lighting but you'd be willing to look into ways of lowering lighting when the business close that's fair yes need be yes okay um I want to revisit the deliveries just CU I didn't pick up on it you said your most frequent delivery is for parts that's once once that's Once a Night Once a Night you get a part five days a week currently five days a I'll say six because they only currently do it five but obviously some of our other manufacturers do six Land Rover happens to only do five but they could always change so I don't want to I'll say six just to be safe and what about the new vehicle delivery how often were those again with the number of cars we're getting that's probably a two to three times a week two to three a week we're only getting 30 cars in a month y you know they don't normally come just bring you one car it's kind of expensive so you bring a few cars each time and how do you envision with the current layout the drop off of new vehicles taking place they're going to they're going to again I think someone else is going to speak we can if can we ever engineer testify to that that's fine I think we heard the the chairman certainly raise a concern about Vehicles being parked in fire Lanes don't want any unloading can have any unloading on Route 22 so we want to make that would be a condition I'm sure if this is approved but I just wanted to hear how yeah definitely no unloading on Route 22 okay um back to the security issue you mentioned there's a fence that's going to be placed around just the new car inventory yeah for the back area of around the rear of the building rear of the building chain Leng found is that chain link chain link do you know chain link but probably with the slats okay so you can't see through it you can't see through but it'll if it's let's say it's a black fence it'll have the black slots it would largely be hidden behind the building is that fair behind the building yeah I think it's it's on the plane I think it comes off the it comes off the back corner and then comes off we can we can certainly touch on the fence momentarily perfect um I notice on the plan and I recall from the prior Honda approval that there's a cross access easement on your Westerly property line the Honda's easterly property line there's not going to be any business overlap there's going to be no need for vehicles to show again we're separate company like it's a separate ownership okay no no affiliation and you mentioned that there may be tow trucks bringing I guess broken down vehicles to the site on occasion but not Vehicles am I correct that have been in an accident you're not doing we don't do body work there body work there so accident again we can't stop a tow truck showing up with a car that was in in a fender bender okay but we don't do body work there we might take it and tow it to a body shop okay if the customer wants like we have we own a body shop but and if if that happened would the vehicle be stored behind the building on the rare cage that you may have a yeah but it it wouldn't stay again going to be quick it's going to be quick to go away cuz we can't really do anything with it so to keep it there you got to get to the body shop so they can call the guys insurance and get get it move get the ball rolling if it just sits on a lot nothing's happening okay um only other question I had is this is probably out of style now but do you guys you guys don't use any overhead speakers or trying to get you know salesmen into the park so the only speaker nothing to in that the only speaker we have is with the security system okay so when they see someone on the lot the first thing they do is go you are being watched if you stay on the lot the police will be called that's not their exact wordage but it's one of those things that's after hours after hours typically right like if someone comes to look and is looking at cars on a Sunday you know I'm sure everybody here has been to a car dealership and you've done that before they're not telling you get off the lot right but they're watching you just to make sure you're not and that's back to trying to break into's question is you guys are remotely monitoring the site at all times we have a company that will remotely Monitor and it's and again it's all sensored so once you draw through don't put it on the record because weird things happen and yeah let's just leave it at that very good that's all I have all right thank you Bill very much uh members of the public questions on the dealership development testimony you've heard all right seeing none we're going to take a quick break before your next witness we're going to take 10 minutes uh it's 8:30 now let's call it 8:40 we'll be back thank you oh man e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e might have more fun without it I can see all right we're going to come back in session the time is 8:41 and Kevin could you call a quick roll call please chairman F here Wy I here this is a mean yeah Mr Sweeney here Mr Fresco here Mr bonjourno here Mr Mr gki here mrat here Mr vesio here here thank you very much Mr Silber chairman so I may I'd like to uh call our next witness our professional engineer Mark Walker and Mr Walker if you can I'll give you the microphone here um just please put your uh educational background and credentials on the record sure uh my name is Mark Walker um I hold a bachelor's degree in civil engineering from Northeastern University and a master's degree in environmental engineering from NJIT been licensed to practice Engineering in the state of New Jersey for 33 years I don't know how that happened and I'm a principal at the dyra Walker Design Group I've testified in front of boards across New Jersey uh planning boards and Boards of adjustment all right thank you Mr Walker we accept you as a professional engineer okay thank you thank you and uh Mr Walker did you uh prepare or supervise the prep the site plan that's for the board this even I have yes we actually did the survey work the Wetland delineation and the flood Hazard area verification excellent so why don't you uh okay so uh before we get to that uh we handed out an exhibit package there's three exhibits in the package um the first exhibit A1 was already introduced by another witness let me just quickly uh explain to the board what that is that's a colorized rendering of our site plan that's superimposed on an aerial photograph and it's entitled proposed layout exhibit uh with today's date sheet three in the packet sheet three in the packet and then uh next exhibit um that I want to introduce is entitled existing conditions exhibit will be we've referenced that as A3 with today's date again it's a it's a colorized exhibit uh superimposed on an aerial photograph and then uh exhibit A4 with today's date is entitled overall area exhibit um this Photograph uh with our site colorized it's intended to show what the generalized setbacks are uh on the Route 22 Corridor adjacent to our subject property so starting off I'd like to start with exhibit A3 which is the existing condition itions exhibit okay so looking at the this exhibit um the existing uh property is known as uh block 559 lot 5.02 it's Route 22 westbound located on the north side of Route 22 backing up to 287 uh the property complies with a 5 acre lot area requirement in the GC Zone however it's rectangular in shape with a very shallow depth since the property is uh west of the Somerville traffic circle the front yard setback requirement is actually 200 ft in this area uh the rear yard setback is 75 ft once you uh apply the 200t front yard setback and the 75 ft rear yard setback you see that our actual building envelope is very shallow you could see that on exhibit A3 very long narrow uh building envelope um and this condition is uh really setting the site up for some variances just based on the existing conditions in the setback requirements um the site was as mentioned was pre previously developed as a gat Courier News building um and there was a large building with Associated uh parking uh the the site was subject to a minor subdivision the improvements were removed um the lot that was developed is an adjacent lot which now houses the Honda dealers which is to our West all previous improvements uh been removed on small SE except for a small section of gravel parking that exist that's adjacent to the Honda dealership which we show on exhibit A3 in the top left corner um the property is essentially after the improvements have been removed is essentially an open field with very minimal trees and scrub brush in the area where the previous development took place uh with the exception of the cuckles brook which is located to the uh east of the site um we have some wooded area located adjacent to the brook um and then you can see uh based on the exhibit that we have a uh the brook is actually piped across 287 discharged onto the subject property and then picked up again by another pipe and then discharged further to the to the South within the cuckles brook area which meanders its way down to Route 22 um the property uh does have a little bit of slope to it um it basically slopes from that gravel parking lot um and it slopes to the east to cuckles Brook and to the south towards 22 uh only a small section of the property has regulated slopes that area is located adjacent to the cuckles brook and is not proposed to be disturbed approximately only 10% of the property has slopes that are greater than 10% no disturbance of slopes greater than 30% are proposed um cuckles Brook is approximately 14 feet lower than the proposed Development Area uh the brook has a repairing buffer and we've established a flood Hazard area associated with the brook as well um within the exhibit uh A3 there's some colorized areas the yellow area represents the reparan buffer and the Blue Area represents the actual flood Hazard area that we have defined and you could see that on on this particular exibit the uh there's a red area that's located in the uh the north easterly side of the corner of the property adjacent to 287 there's a small pocket of wetland lands located in that area and we're showing the Wetland area as well as a 50ft wetland buffer um also the uh the open Waters that are associated with cuckle Brook um we are anticipating a 50 foot reparan buffer uh for that particular area um let's see so as you can see by this exhibit there's really only a small portion of the site that's impacted by those environmental constraints from the brook uh which has the stream uh and also some Wetland areas we do also have um some easements that run along the property that are also uh um a constraint to the subject property along the Northerly property line adjacent to 287 we have a 30ft s sanitary sewer easement and then running along the easterly property line there uh the 30 foot easement also runs on that easly property line there's also a 15 foot Somerville water company easement and a 20 foot drainage easement uh and the majority of those easements as you can see especially on the southerly end of the property are located within those environmentally constrained areas as as we mentioned uh the property's located in the GC General commercial Zone District uh where car sales and service is not permitt is not a permitted use move on to exhibit A4 A4 is the overall um overall area exhibit which is the second one in your packet and again the the purpose of of presenting uh exhibit A4 was to give the board a sense of what the neighborhood looks like and our planner probably has some other exhibits as well that that he'll be presenting relative to this um uh the purpose of this for me is to establish what the parking setbacks are and what the building setbacks are uh within the site so if we wanted to start from the left side uh going to the right side um we've got lot three which is an Atlantic health building the parking area is 48 ft and the building's 97 ft and these dimensions are all measured from the RightWay Route 22 and then further to the south on the same lot there's more parking that's 51 feet um moving on to the adjacent Honda dealership uh the parking is 55 ft the building's 95 ft and and then uh further south there's a larger parking lot within that same property uh is 96 ft um and as you can see uh the subject property uh we have parking on the uh Westerly side is 50.5 ft the building's 100.5 ft and then additional parking on the south side which is 80.8 Ft uh continuing to the right on the exhibit there's a furniture store on lot six the building is 95 ft and the parking is 110 ft uh moving on to the Acura dealership the building is 100 ft and the parking is 28 ft and then one further down there's a restaurant lot two uh which is 57 feet for parking and 15 ft for parking and the building is 118 ft so just going through that exercise I think it's safe to say that the what we have proposed for the parking setbacks and the building setbacks fit in with what's going on in the neighborhood I think one other thing that you can gain from looking at this exhibit is the depth of the property if you look at the depth of the Lots on the right side and you go to the left side you can see how the Lots get narrower and narrower and narrower as they get into the subject property can I ask you uh one quick question testif property is west of su Circle it isn't it east of sumerville circle oh which is okay but I'm gonna get there yes okay proper is east of Summerville Circle I just bring that UPS as interpr 12711 walk thank you very much appreciate that um we also just took a look at a little further beyond the limit of this exhibit and and we've noticed there are 11 car dealerships along this stretch of highway um also with respect to the site and the utilities there's a water sewer gas and electric utilities that will serve the site I'm taking a look at exhibit uh A1 which is the proposed conditions proposed layout so as you can see uh on the south side we have cuckles Brook we have a large green area that we're preserving uh the gray area is the building parking is the is the driveway and parking the orange area is the proposed building and then we have some proposed uh landscaped uh areas shown the proposal is to construct a two-story Land Rover dealership with a 24,8 31 Square ft building footprint um there's one way in and one way out from uh Route 22 Route 22 is a three lane Highway in this particular stretch uh the building will contain new and used car sales 11 service Bays uh an enclosed uh drop off and pickup area Car Wash and three detailed Bays um we have five display spaces which are osed on the Westerly side at the front of the building and then we have a drop off and pick up area on the uh actually actually on the North side on the south side of the building um we have 76 uh customer and employee uh parking spaces which includes our EV bonus uh parking spaces um there are 164 used new and Service uh parking spaces as well um we have proposed 3 adaa um parking spaces two EV spaces and two EV Make Ready parking spaces um 63 spaces based on um uh based on uh Auto Service bays and office because the ordinance doesn't have a specific um designation for uh car dealerships so we use those designations to calculate uh the number of parking spaces required for the dealership just a quick point on that as well those we used very conservative numbers by relying upon the ordinance is that accurate uh yes our traffic engineering we'll get into that absolutely but just wanted to to highlight that there are obviously I standards conserv yeah I parking should not be a problem here and our traffic engineer will dive into that um so uh so 63 parking spaces are required and as I mentioned we have 76 proposed so we're we're 13 spaces over um our the plan the board's planner pointed out that um in our parking calculations we have not provided Provisions to accommodate for wholesale and Retail Parts um spoke to Mr FY about that he said maybe they get one two maybe three people a day that would come in and buy a part so um given the fact that we have 13 more parking spaces than are required we should easily be able to accommodate uh one one car for uh picking up parts uh so we do have one uh 12 by 32t loading space which is proposed in the back of the building um this loading Space is really designated to handle daily deliver deliveries from UPS and FedEx um standard parts and supplies are div delivered at nighttime um and then car deliveries uh will happen on the Westerly side of the site uh the car carrier will park along the front of the building where the display parking spaces are are located um and no vehicles will be unloaded on Route 22 as previously discussed it's anticipated as Mr fcy discussed that there'll be two to three deliveries uh per week the site's been designed to handle the car carrier tractor trailer and uh and as a recent discussion with the fire department this week um they actually gave us a different fire Tru uh we selected one from the web site they in a discussion with them they wanted us to use a very specific fire Tru so we were able to get the model of that fire TR and Route it uh through our site we're able to show that it works and accommodates uh this particular fir truck which is called the green green null fire Pierce velocity Tower truck so the site can handle that we'll we'll confirm that with the fire department we'll show them the the truck turning move movements uh with respect to the fire Tru we do have a relatively large trash in recycling area that's located in the back of the site adjacent to 287 um and it's anticipated um that pickup will happen once a week you know if it's determined that uh there's more garbage than that then then the the owner will arrange for additional pickups the pickups will be from a from a private hauler is that in the upper leftand corner that's in in the top leftand corner of the exhibit two slots there those two rectangle darker slots thank you they will be the block enclosed or they will be enclosed with a fence right that was actually the B next thing I was going to say Thank you so uh they will be screened by six foot high solid fence um there's uh the rear uh car inventory which is located directly behind the building uh they're triple stacked behind the building as discussed those uh that area will be fenced in for security purposes um the site's been uh designed to keep the customer activity to the Eastern section of the site which will eliminate conficts with service operations and deliveries that occur on the Westerly side of the site so just I threw a lot at you um about parking and spaces I just want to kind of bring that all together and run through this exhibit so U westbound on 2022 car pulls into the site we've got our our customer parking is the first Bay of parking that uh a car would see as they pull into the site they always want to park closest to the building anyway um so our customer parking will be located in this particular area the customer if they're coming in for uh service they'll pull in in front of the building building and pull into the Service drop off area located in the building and our architect will discuss this a little further in depth there is the uh the lobby area for people who are waiting for their car to get serviced which is directly adjacent to the customer parking um so we do have the customer parking we have used cars directly on the on the easterly side of the site our employee parking are located in the northeaster side of the site um the the new car inventory as I mentioned are located directly behind the proposed building and then we have 26 service spaces on the Westerly sideline directly adjacent to the Honda dealership um so the way the the circulation works for tractor trailer or the fire truck uh fir truck would pull in driver around the building and exit out through the site uh being able to access completely around the back of the building um there will be a nox box for the gate uh that'll allow the fire department to gain access through the security gate that's uh providing security for those Vehicles behind the building um we do have uh service entrances located at the back that'll be used by the staff we also have detail Bays three detail bays and in the back leftand corner of the building we have uh Car Wash proposed so that's basically the site how it's going to flow um can I just ask a quick question about that don't mean to jump the gun if you're going to get there but talk a little bit about um any like signage on site that'll direct people to the designated areas if you can right okay so let's so we do have the infamous signage not that signage okay well I just wanted to talk about that I have a feeling we're going to end up with one sign but we still may need relief from that sign right so I just wanted to wanted to bring that up we are proposing a sign um that's located 20 ft from the RightWay um the sign would be 95 ft from the travel way located in Route 22 so although we're a little close to the RightWay I don't think the ordinance contemplated such a wide right of way so it's incredibly far from the traveled way which I don't think was the intent of the ordinance but as far as the signage goes for the site we really don't have that many directional signs um after we did receive the reports we we thought that it would make sense to have uh have a sign located at the back of the building uh if somebody is pulling out of the site uh customers picking their car up that that would direct them to the right keeping them on the easterly side of the site to direct them out uh onto Route 202 um we can also have uh a directional sign that shows that this is the customer parking and to continue to head left in order to get to the service uh service Bay Area where is that or where would that be Mark that would be in the first island that you enter coming into the site um and uh as I mentioned we've uh water sewer gas electric will be extended uh from the public RightWay to the building um the fire department in our discussions with them also wanted a fire department connection which we'll put uh on the W in front of the Westerly detention Basin across the parking lot from the front of the building Mr Walker you're referring to the January 27th 2025 letter yes I am okay thank you and also we we actually had discussions with them before they issued that report right so you're in full compliance and the ladder truck you mentioned before was also on the letter and you're in agreement with that as well we are in full agreement with them thank you sir um moving on to storm water storm water detention everybody's favorite subject could we before we go to that cuz that's a big issue sure the car wash yes is that hose in an area that you're going to wash cars down it's not a public access no it's only for the cars on the site and our architect will talk more about the function of the car wash and and how it works it won't be open to members of the public to pull in for a wash after a salty snowy snore not that's my understanding okay so why don't we stipulate that because it did sound like that your testimony did indicate a car use car wash use and I just want to make sure you're not asking for that we're not it's specifically for the dealership I'll clarify specifically accessory to the dealership great and and for use by the dealership got it um so with respect to storm water we we've done a number of developments with Paul Miller group and a lot of the sites that we've worked on are are much smaller with less setbacks less green area and we've been forced to do a lot of under the parking lot storm water designs which are incredible expensive and not truly meeting the the BMP requirements that the D is looking for I he meets the requirements because there's no other option but in this particular instance we're really fortunate to have the space to be able to provide uh the best storm water that we can design that that's intended to be designed under the BMP um so we have five five different storm water management are areas and just looking at exhibit A1 uh going from the west side we have a bio retention Basin and in the middle of the site at the front we have another bio retention Basin then we have a slightly larger Basin on the uh on the easterly side of the site and then there are two smaller basins that are actually located in the dot right away um and those are interesting uh the dot actually allows you to provide storm water management within there right away if there's no other alternative but clearly it's the applicant's responsibility to maintain those basins even though they're in the dot right away um so um in our traffic engineer will discuss this a little bit but we do requ are going to be required to get a DOT permit so they will also be reviewing our storm water so the DP has jurisdiction on our storm water we file for D permits we've gotten a round of review comments from the D and we've addressed those so we're very close to getting our our D comments um once the do permit is submitted we're going to get more review comments from the do the do is typically more interested in how we're impacting their system rather than providing environmental uh environmental safeguards so the DP is more concerned about uh the environmental safeguards and the dot is really more concerned about what's the impact of their system and then we also have um you know the review from your board engineer as well um and we received some comments from him but let me just get into the design a little bit uh so everybody understands uh what we're trying to accomplish um we have a couple of drainage areas we have a drainage area that goes to cuckles Brook and then we have a drainage area that goes to 22 so what we've done is we've we've broken the site up into drainage areas that maintains the drainage pattern basically as it exists today and we have a discharge for the Basin number three which is the Eastern Basin which will discharge directly into cuckles Brook and then we have Basin one and Basin two and the two um in the two uh smaller basins in do right away that will dist charge directly into uh piping infrastructure uh in Route 22 the uh okay we talked about the rain Gardens and the project as you might guess is a major storm water development and it's been designed to meet the d d storm water regulations for water quality infiltration and rates of runoff um as I mentioned we've filed applications with the D and we've received review comments and we're anticipating uh approval from them uh in the near future um so one of the one of the applications that we also filed for was the letter of interpretation which is about the wetlands small Wetland pocket in the uh northeasterly corner of the site and we've also filed for what's called a flood Hazard area verification which is deals with the flood Hazard area aspect in streams so uh that flood Hazard area ver verification will um um will indicate most likely that we have a 50 foot repairing buffer and that the flood Hazard elevation that we have uh that we have designed based on the rules is accurate the way that we designed the flood Hazard elevation there's no flood Hazard elevation not a studied stream per the D and it's not on the FEMA Maps as being a flood area but because the flow through the cuckles brook is larger than 50 acres we need to establish a flood Hazard elevation for the site so there are a couple Alternatives we could have done a more detailed study which is actually a model of the stream um and which cost a lot of money application fees are very expensive or we could just say hey the flood elevation is 11 feet above the brook the DP is good with it because they know it's incredibly conservative and we'll establish the flood elevation that way and because of the because of the repairing buffer length the flood elevation fell within that repairing buffer and we didn't really want to disturb much of that repairing buffer you know we really need a good reason to disturb any of that repairing buffer so we took the easier permitting route but more conservatively we selected the estimated technique which gives us 11 feet above the brook uh for our flood elevation so that's how we established the flood elevation and that's the premise for the permits that we are we're seeking uh with the D get some clarification on that um so you're you're saying that the elevation is is very conservative in terms of your flood elevation it's very conservative yeah um the flooding would occur from like a cloud burst event like what type of what type of event kind of caused the flooding the all right so what the D is done and you may know this about a year and a half ago they changed the flood elevations and they if it was a studied stream they increased the flood elevations by 2 feet so they're basically the new D flood elevations are three feet higher than the basic FEMA studies that are out there for flood insurance purposes so for permitting what we have to deal with is basically elevations that are 3 feet above that they also in modeling the streams they also took the rainfall intensity storms which used to be 8 in over a 24hour period and they increased that by 50% to 12 in so they've really looking out to the Future they've based these new changes based on the year 2100 so this is what they're anticipating in the year 2100 and currently now 70 some odd years earlier we're designing for the year 2100 so it's creating a lot of issues in towns that have flood Hazard areas um and really limiting any development potential uh within those particular areas okay so for in year 2100 would you say your elevation exceeds like a 100e storm and 2100 or 500 year like where yeah so where are you in that kind of met this this is how before they went from 8 in to 12 in okay the the study was to take the 100-year storm event and add 25% to it that's how the D is established their New Jersey flood Hazard elevation higher than the firm Maps right higher than the flood insurance Maps now they've just added two feet or 50% more um rainfall that you have to account for so it's a difficult question that asked I you have a sense of of the extent that they've increased the Flow Design This is not the actual flow this is what we have to design for okay I think I think I understand your your response I just want to kind of get that you're saying that this elevation here will suffice a major storm in 75 years from now yes okay so you see no concern with the property and flooding and not on this property this property is uh design elevation is about 4 14 ft above the cuckles brook okay and on the repairing area what's the purpose of that kind of yellow what's the purpose of a repairing buffer all right so good question so especially in this particular instance there's no Wetlands associated with cuckles Brook so 20 years ago you could build 25 ft from cuckles Brook right no permit no design criteria no issues at all so they introduced uh over the years they've introduced uh repairing buffers for waterways Lakes streams ponds things like that and those uh repairing buffers can be as large as 300 feet but but the majority are 50 feet so if you're not draining to Trout production or if you if you're you have threatening or endangered species within the area your repairing buffer could go up to 300 feet we don't have that in this particular instance the likelihood is we're going to get the 50 Foot repairing buffer thank you Mr Walker could you give the board a sense of where the guinet building was because this was a developed piece of property before it had a use and you know the coules brook has always been there you know just give the board kind of some it doesn't have to be exact but just some sense of what was developed um and kind of where in terms of the bound of this land that building was and and operating on a daily basis almost identically to what we have shown here okay that's it thank you it's an easy answer that was easy building or the parking lot the building and the parking lot and the parking lot the the footprint was essentially the same it's it's essentially in the same area and how many trees were you proposing to remove here so um we actually got a waiver from that particular item um for submission to to the board um but we did uh locate trees um as part of our agreement uh to getting the waver so in our revisions when we address the plans for the planner and the engineer we'll be showing uh we'll be showing those trees and I'll be able to give you an exact answer so so ballpark me how many trees are going to be pulled out of here I think it's less than 20 all right and would the applicant be willing to stipulate that we'll find somewhere either on this site or in water they're going to plant 20 trees absolutely okay whatever the deficiency ends up being okay and if it's 25 or 30 you're okay with whatever the number is I just would would point out and the board's it's already bit said to this but this was a fully developed sight up there are there is vegetation we'd have to it's very difficult to see what no I understand the scrub rush and whatnot but but we're talking about you know fully formed trees yes that have designation in this in the lot we're gonna make every effort to replant them on site and if not we'll put them somewhere nice in Bridge Water we will comply great thank you I have a question please Mrs on this particular drawing on the right hand side of the building you show new car delivery spot it says new car delivery um speaking to the mic new car delivery in the building on the building and then there's another door next to you so are there two delivery spots or just one the way you show is is one delivery spot for new car inside the building right so the new cars are going to be outside the building in the back of the building no see see from the outside to go into the building uh on your drawing you show one spot one spot for new car delivery it says new car delivery it says right right when you're drawing yeah yeah so the new car deliveries going to occur no on the on the right right hand side of the building uh the vertical line you see that yeah on the right side car delivery car delivery inside the yeah that one that one yes so so right underneath there's another door so you have two delivery spots that's what my question yeah our architect will discuss that a little bit more in detail but when you go to pick up your new car that's where you'll go into that space sit in your new car they'll explain it to you and then you can drive out I see believe that's the intent of that space Oh okay okay I didn't do that last time you bought a car you didn't bring inside teach you how to work it so um should I proceed oh please okay thank you um so with all these D rules and regulations we are required to add a substantial amount of of plant material within these detention basins uh what we currently have on the plan for the detention basins are River Birch winter Berry red dogwood Button Bush sweet pepper bush and high Bush blueberry so there's a mixture of all those plants uh Within These these five detention Basin areas those are species required by D they are that's correct yes um and again that's being uh that's being um reviewed by the DP um within the site itself the front uh building foundation and parking uh Island areas will have creeping junipers Sergeant junipers dwarf red spiry a fitzer juniper variegated Lily Turf Little Richard gloss Alia a floss flower carpet pink roses and uh we also have some horn beams proposed which are columnar trees against the building and we also have Coler trees proposed along the uh RightWay uh on Route 22 at every 50 ft um our project architect will address uh site lighting um see so with respect to some general zoning comments um the building will be uh two stories 27 feet in this particular Zone we actually allowed three stories and 45 ft so the building is subst Al smaller uh than what's allowed um the project complies with impervious cover uh and Fa even after uh it's adjusted for the slopes that are within the property um the project complies with the sidey setback and combined sidey setback uh the combined sidey setback requirements 100 feet and we have proposed 366.50 ft um we do has been discussed we do have some variances uh for the project I just would like to identify them we'll have other Witnesses that'll provide more proofs for them but as part of the site plan I just wanted to be able to point those out uh to the board um so the use variance for the car dealership in the GC Zone the front yard setback for the building5 100.5 were 200's required the front yard setback for for parking 50.5 where 100's required uh the width of the parking stalls 9 by8 where 9.5 uh versus uh 9.5 uh by 18 is required let me just touch on that a little bit like 9 by8 is a pretty much an industry standard parking space I could see the 9 and a half by 18 space if we were in a in a more uh turnover type scenario where where customers are coming in and going and there's a lot more activity on the site we don't anticipate that so the the 9 by8 which is the industry standard will function quite well on this particular site um and the ordinance permits the 9 by8 for the other parking spaces right it does right that's correct for the for employee parking um loading space size 12 by 32 where 12x 50 is required um so we had some discussion about that sign sign setback 20 feet were 30 FTS required uh right currently there's a variance requested for three freestanding signs where only one is allowed um the freestanding sign area of 25.3 Ft which is 84.4 2 feet is allowed uh is also up for discussion um the average uh lighting foot candle uh which our architect will discuss is two foot candles uh where 1.5 foot candles is allowed um also in reviewing um the engineers report um he had pointed out that there is a substantial Landscaping ordinance um that uh we've gone through actually this afternoon uh and I had a couple of conversations with Bill about it um and so I just want to uh bring this up it's not referenced in our plans it was referenced in Bill's report for us to discuss um so let me just run through those uh really quick um so we're referencing section 126-1 199 in the ordinance uh one of the requirements is to have more than one type of street tree currently all we have are the horn beams every 50 feet on the RightWay so we will comply with that and add in some variety uh of trees in that area um there's also a requirement based on our disturbance um that we need to provide 114 trees so as as discussed the site is was previously developed totally demolished and it's just kind of sitting there with scrub brush it's not a site that's a wooded site um so in this particular instance we will be seeking a variance uh so we are proposing 15 trees on the site um where 114 are required uh the next is uh dealing with the number of shrubs required again it's 10 shrubs for every 5,000 sare ft of disturbance which equates to 228 shrubs required we actually have 316 shrubs proposed um however currently we don't meet this requirement because uh there's a specific list of shrubs that we can have uh and under the D requirements they give us a number of choices of shrubs that we can put within the basins we've selected six different shrubs that we could put in the basins three of them don't comply with your requirements so we can we can change those shrubs and have less variety of shrubs or the board can grant us a variance to allow the variety of shrubs we we really have no preference and whatever the board chooses we'd be glad to go along with or alternatively we we would be happy to work with the board's professionals on that perfect okay um so there's also a requirement that there's one shade tree for every 10 uh parking spaces um we are uh a car dealership with brand new high-end beautiful cars car dealers do not like trees they do not like them so we've been specifically instructed no shade trees and most of the storage is in the back of the lot and our Landscaping is all in the front part of the property which is what everybody will see when they're driving by on Route 222 and when they pull into the site so a variance would be required for that um there's also a requirement to have curved islands that are 4 feet um uh in width which we do have uh for the customer parking and in front of the building and again this uh variance requirement occurs at the rear of the site where we have uh car storage and most of the backend operation uh of the facility uh the last one um there's a requirement that if you have 20 uh cars in a row that you need to have a brake and again have some land have a landscaping Island so this uh situation occurs only in two locations one is along the uh common side with uh with Honda and as you can see on exhibit uh A1 uh our parking is going to be way more organized than what they have on their particular lot and and again this is on the service side of the site this is not on the customer side of the site and then the other area where it occurs is in the back of the property where we have the new car uh inventory located so a variance would be required for that so taking our plans and reviewing uh the Landscaping ordinance there there were uh seven seven items that we needed relief from we spent a lot of time looking at this this afternoon and we were able to eliminate uh two of those uh and as we've indicated we're also willing to try to plant more trees on the site plant trees somewhere else within the town and if needed uh provide um provide some capital for the uh landscape fund so we're very willing to cooperate um with the board and and try to meet this requirement the best we can no I I appreciate that and just keep working with with uh bill with Katherine on that and we'll we'll make sure that you know either the trees get on site or they'll get elsewhere in Bridgewater I think that's good discussions to keep having right I can ask just a couple of questions unless do you have something to interrupt uh nope I'm go ahead all right um you had mentioned uh easements earlier on in your testimony you listed them uh do any of the in the easements impact this development uh no they do not actually we we developed the site to be outside of those easements that I discussed excellent and you did mention the um the loading space size we're also providing one loading space instead of two loading spaces so I was just running from your professional uh opinion do you think that one loading space is sufficient and a um a loading space that is smaller than the size required yeah because the larger loading is going to occur after hours um for the parts and other supplies so that loading area is really more for the FedEx trucks and the UPS trucks and maybe some smaller single unit deliveries uh deliveries that we get but the the bigger deliveries are going to occur after hours and then as we discuss the the car unloading will take place uh where the display parking spaces are shown okay thank you um just a couple questions um can you just talk a little bit about snow plowing removal things of that nature sure yeah so the way the way that that will work since we have inventory on the site um each area of the parking lot will be targeted for snow clearing those cars uh within that area would be removed uh the snow would be plowed along the curb line um and then those cars would be brought back into place uh and then they'd move on to another area and perform the same same duties so if we if we did happen to get a larger uh snow event uh and the curve line areas couldn't handle the amount of snow the snow would be uh collected put on a dump truck and taken off the site uh and that that would have to be arranged uh with the management and a company that would handle that great and then I Mr Burr probably would bring this up I'm going to get a little specific there is a uh notation uh item h on page five we talked about this um yesterday I was wondering if you could just address the the recommendation in the engineering review memo about amending the storm sore uh layout yeah so I guess one of the comments also in the report was you know is there any impact because of the flood Hazard elevation the flood Hazard elevation comes up and then we have our storm water detention Basin that's filling up with storm water and the water has to get let out of the Basin and discharge into the stream that under an extreme storm event would be full of storm STM water and what the impact of that would be so there is a tail water calculation that we're willing to do but in this particular area where we will be discharging the flood elevation is actually 2 feet below the bottom of our Basin so we don't anticipate uh any issues relative to that and then the uh other uh other items that he brought up relative to inverts and pipe flows will work directly with him to resolve uh any inconsistencies on that great and then just right quickly two other items um uh this might be better question for the the architect but um can you just confirm that the uh roof area from the new building will drain to the proposed onsite storm Water Management Systems yes it will okay and then and then and I think the other part of that comment was will the leaders and downspouts be sized for 25e storm so the answer is yes great and then I you might have touched upon this I'm sorry but can you just talk about the um soil logs and whether they're included with the storm water management report yeah so we have we did as part of our design we need to do a number certain number of soil logs within each Basin area we did those soil logs and they're all on the plans the uh the depth to seasonal High groundwater is between uh 9 N9 and 12T deep so there's no impact to seasonal High groundwater with respect to our storm water design great so unless otherwise noted we can comply with all the uh revision requests of Mr bur there's just just a couple other items go ahead so there was one one comment about the earthw work and soil movement um so we did a earth work study uh and we're showing that we need to import uh only 380 cubic yards for this the development so the site is essentially balanced uh relative to earth work there's also one other comment about uh flood flood damage prevention ordinance um and we're actually uh that ordinance does not apply to this particular site um because we're not in the spe special flood Hazard area for Bridgewater as defined in the ordinance I have no further question question all right thanks Mr silbert um I have a question on the coules brook obviously you know just as a Layman it makes me nervous and the proximity to Adamsville Lane um so I went back to 2021 and I pulled the resolution for that case which was called the gateway 70b resolution and a Titan of Industry named Jeff Lair was the attorney in that case and the specifically it's block 221 lot 101 um essenti the cuckles brook goes under groute 22 and goes to that Gateway property I I just want to make sure because the engineering memo that Mr Burr put together was incredibly Technical and I think very thorough but ultimately if the cuckles brook has an issue with maintenance and there's debris in there all bets are off and I want to make sure that the township has a right of entry and the Gateway 70b 2021 resolution and I'll give you a copy it's on page 19 it's condition 10 and I'm just going to read it in the record for you and you can come back to us with the how you want to word it um the applicant shall dedicate an easement an access easement for RightWay entry so that it may inspect the Waterway located in the vicinity of the southeast corner of the property obviously that will change and it's Sole and reasonable discretion and at the sole cost of the applicant or a successor the township may clear or otherwise maintain the Waterway on the applicant's property in a reasonable way but not but shall not be obligated all right right so you guys need to work on that but again I just look at that in terms of of logistical critical area if the Cocos Brook needs maintenance or has an issue and the town you're not responsible to the town or a future owner of the property is not responsible and and and essentially returning the calls of the township we got to get in there we got to fix it so I want to make sure that you understand that um fortunately I drafted the easement for that and uh never hasn't been constructed but um I have an easement and I will recycle that Jeff took all the credit you did all the work no no Jeff did the application so he did the behind the scenes work all right fair enough but um we can agree to that thank you Mr silbert board questions none board professionals thank you Mr chairman um Mark you had mentioned in your testimony that when you did your lack coverage and F calculations you took into account the hillside development just give us a quick overview of where there are steep slopes on this property and is there any disturbance plus 30% yeah sure um we actually have a slope map uh in our this guy's the best attorney ever he picked up my pen I just dropped oh he's gonna send you a [Laughter] bill um so looking on at sheet eight of 14 in the plan set we do have we do have one area that's being disturbed for the pipe discharge down to cuckles Brook but that that uh disturbance is allowed under the ordinance because it's for a utility line other than that there are no disturbances within those darker slopes so the dark if you look on the slope map the white area is nonregulated slopes less than 10% and then the slight the grayer is a little steeper and then when you get to the dark color those are the slopes that are greater than 30% so we're not disturbing any slopes greater than 30% except for that one storm water connection down to cuckles Brook and so you would also testified that there are a few permits that are necessary from DP I think you mentioned you filed for an Loi delineate the or to to get their acknowledgement of the delineation of the Wetland um and then likely will require a Wetlands permit is that no actually we don't need a Wetlands permit we just need flood Hazard area permits uh so it's uh individual flood Hazard area permits for our storm water discharge and some minor disturbances for parking lot construction all all within the limits that the de allows and you you indicated that you have already filed for those permits and D already gave you comments back right that's correct and what was the nature of their comments was there anything in there that would lead you to believe that you can't address no they were they were pretty mild comments so you would expect to to be able to acquire those permits we're expecting to get our permits relatively soon okay um from a from a storm water perspective I I won't do a deep dive I think the comments in my report tell the story we did a very very thorough storm water review of this application because there there has been a lot of concern a lot of scrutiny a lot of review over the last number of years of that cuckles Brook Corridor um what I heard from you though was you're willing to revise either your plans or calculations to comply with all of our comments essentially I correct yes all right I mean I think I wanted to discuss with you a couple of of the pipe comments I I don't think they're they're not impactful for our storm water designer but I think we can work that out but in the grand scheme of things your design meets all D requirements the township storm water Control Ordinance requirements and your testimony is that this site will not have a negative impact beyond what it it's contributing Downstream now that's correct and you know just to you know make the board feel a little bit more comfortable about this under the storm water regulations one Basin is allowed to take 2 and a half acres of runoff we have five basins in here and the whole site's five acres so we've we have really spread our storm water out in a very large area which helps uh the Water infiltrate into the ground uh in a over a large area than in a really smaller confined area so I think that's a major benefit to this project and it also helps soften the look of the site because we did add in So Much landscaping associated with those basins and and one of the facts that I guess allows you to make that statement is that all of these basins will be maintained by the applicant that's correct and there will be an operations and maintenance manual prepared and submitted if the application's approved that's correct that'll be filed on the deed of the property with the county as part of the dp's requirements when we get the permit they will require us they they don't require the maintenance operation maintenance manual until they know they're going to approve the project because it's very specific uh relating to specific documents that they are approving with specific dates so once they get ready to approve it they'll call us and they say we're ready for the operation and maintenance manual and we'll provide it at that time and that's a document that gets recorded uh I believe in your office correct with the county with the county you'll provide us with a copy of it but it'll be it'll be recorded with the county right okay okay um just a few few more questions in the front of the proposed building I guess it's it's the easterly portion of the building which would be the the the sales showroom there's a drop off area that's shown that's TW 14t by 35 ft did you mention in your prior testimony what that drop off area is going to be used for I didn't mention it but it's uh so if somebody is uh somebody drops their car off to get serviced and they get picked up and they come back later on that day they can they can be dropped off in that area or if somebody wants to test drive a car they'll bring the car around and park it in that area so it g it gives a lot of flexibility for the site that little drop off area but operationally the service activity there's going to be a center driveway with a rollup door that's correct how that functions and service Vehicles people that are dropping off for service will be able to drive their vehicle right into the building that's correct okay y all right we're going to hear testimony I think about lighting you mentioned that's your architect correct that's correct um there's an emergency generator being proposed is that correct or is that the architect yeah so we have a uh a Transformer and emergency generator proposed in the front left portion of the building on the service side of the building um so that's on the uh I guess the southwesterly corner of the building do you know how big that generator would be um I'm going to let the architect talk about that fair enough there was prior testimony about chain length fencing with perhaps privacy slats and closing the new car inventory correct do you know know how tall that fence is proposed to be I didn't see it anywhere on the plan I could be mistaken I believe it's uh it'll be six feet perfect lucky for you 6 feet is a maximum allowed so that's that's good it's like we knew that yeah exactly four four feet in the front yard six feet in the side in rear yard okay um I think we heard testimony about Landscaping you've made a commitment to address or remove some of the prior relief I think there were two items that you had sought relief for you're going to take those off the table add some additional plantings and also provide compensation for the trees that are going to be removed as a result of this as well that's correct yes very good that's all I have Mr chairman thank you thank you one just major correction on this document this is Somerset County it says moris okay yeah to be in the right County fair enough welcome thank you um I just had a few questions um it was brought up kind of early in um Engineers testimony but I'd identified that some of the architectural plan programming for the building um was kind of not captured by the parking calculation now there is no set um bless you prescribed parking ratio for car dealership in our ordinance but they utilized um Auto automobile service station um which relies upon the Bays the bay areas and the number of them and then the sales area as um office space which is a 1 per 300 um I know that it was mentioned that they are overp parked based on the calculation and there was some anecdotal testimony about the ability for parts and things like that to be captured under that excess parking that they're providing but I what I really wanted to see was a parking calculation that's reflective of the site so we can we can actually guarantee that a parking variance isn't required um not necessarily that operationally it'll work but that the parking is sufficient for for the for the ordinance requirements um and that uh doesn't isn't just the part section but it's that there is future Bays that are included on the plans that the car wash which I think you said there is no Car Wash U portion but that those areas are currently as far as square footage not not captured in the parking calculation so they should be in some way shape or form we we can have our traffic engineer address that a little bit more in detail those two future Bays though those are going to be detail Bays they're going to be relabeled on the architectural plans I think I regardless the square footage right now is not captured and that's what I think in some sense needs to be okay understood as far as the the landscape deficiencies I know you had some correspondence with Bill um to address that can those notes be added to the landscape sheet um so any variants or waivers that you're being that are being sought just revise them on the landscape sheet I think it's sheet five of 14 yes we will that would be helpful and then as far as the species choice for the Landscaping um most of the choices right now as far as trees and shrubs are non-native and then the bu retention PL plantings are native probably I think D requires that to be um so if there if there are any revisions to Landscaping plan as you look back at it if there are other options uh it doesn't necessarily need to be all plantings are native throughout the site because sometimes that's not the best either but if you could choose a mixture of of some native trees yeah I well I will follow what the ordinance has they have a whole list of plants that we can use for shrubs or trees we'll we'll follow the ordinance okay and I know you'd mentioned that you know trees are aren't necessarily something a dealer wants there are some choices on here that are you know fruiting trees which may not be great for cars um and fast growing fruiting trees which are you maybe not great so um keep that in mind and um I'm sure we we could work together on that that's fine thank you um other than that I don't think I have anything else for this witness great thank you very much members of the public questions on the engineering testimony you heard tonight all right seeing none I have 952 Mr Silver you got eight more minutes it's a Brian um partell was sworn in he's he's an electrical engineer he's just going to talk about the lighting plan that was included in the site plan let's just get his credentials real quick on the record and we'll utilize your 7 minutes thank you so Mr harzel if you can and I'll give you this microphone here just for the uh for the record and the benefit of the board can you just provide us with your educational background and credentials please first start with your name and spell your last name please yes hello my name is Brian harsel last name is spelled h a r t z l um I I basically have a bswe from University of Missouri from 1992 I've been practicing electrical engineering for over 30 years um I've been working for EI Associates for five and I received my PE degree in 2022 so I've been a practicing PE for three years with over 30 years experience and licensed in New Jersey I am licensed in New Jersey in Louisiana all right great we accept you as a expert in engineering thank you in your packet of drawings you'll have a drawing A4 this is the basically the sight lighting for the car dealer um we have basically picked three fixtures um an E1 that provides lighting throughout the parking lot uh around the perimeter of the parking lot itself we have a uh sea fixture which provides uh down lighting basically wall wash along the east the North and uh west side of the building with a few down dile down lights in the front uh near the main entrance to the building the reason for we picked the fixture E1 is it especially along the property lines it provides a excuse me a cut off in the light so that there is no flow or uh flooding of light into the on the other property so it basically cuts it off at the poles and that would be along the nor uh sorry the west and the east side of the parking lot as well as well as the North and the the South based on our calculations we are well within the boundary line requirement of one foot candle we're actually less than one foot candle at the property line at the um entrances you're allowed to a maximum of 3 foot candles we actually have less than that we're between 1 and 1 and A2 at each of the entrances um on the property line the where we where we kind of differ in the ordinances the total uh average foot candles for the whole property where it's supposed to be 1.5 we actually have it set at two foot candles uh as our average and the reason for this is because we needed for security of public and the safety for personnel and for the use of cameras to monitor the facility after hours so we got to have proper lighting um unless are some questions I I don't have any questions questions board questions board professionals just um two quick questions the there was a variance mentioned I think 1.5t candle average is what's required you that is what your that's what your sorry that's what your ordinance requires and we're looking what we we get a a foot candle level of two and it's we need this for our the security and the proper functioning of our security cameras okay and um will all the exterior lighting be shielded so as not to create nuisance or Hazard to adjacent Properties or the muttering public we well along the perimeters the way the apertures are set for the fixtures there is no flooding of excess lighting into other properties like I said it cuts it off at the actually at the poles themselves and the way the lights are set up and because we're you know up to 70 ft from the main Drive uh the main uh 22 that there wouldn't be no influence of our lighting onto Route 22 from our building building just because of the distance and I I had asked earlier about the ability to dim or lower the lights at the close of business that's an ordinance requirement is that something with the lighting package that's proposed can that be accommodated well we'll be in discussions with the ownership on how they want to proceed with that piece and then we'll you know take their advisement is or design but it is possible with your design to lower the intensity of the in the off hours if that's a condition of the board's yes okay y thank you and and I just want to put on the record again I'm not an expert in security cameras but you know I have security cameras on my home they pick up details in low light so you know your camera technology has improved vastly in The Last 5 Years that's something that maybe you should look at in your Design Elements versus the foot candle elements and I just want to put that out there something for you guys to look into well the other aspect is is we need to especially when people approach the dealership at night they can go up and they go wander around and look at cars so I mean we do have to have proper foot candle for people who F I'm talking about 2: in the morning on a Sunday night you know I want to make sure that the astronomer that lives up the hill isn't getting any lights cast and is going to be angry at the zoning board because he can't see Jupiter I understand that gotcha thank you members of the public oh I'm sorry Katherine did you have any questions I have no questions for this all right members of the public questions on the lighting and Engineering testimony you heard see none time pretty good one more minute yeah you got one more minute are you done um am I allowed to call another witness sure you got one more minute um I I don't remember the board's rules if they're cut off at 10 o'clock or no new Witnesses after 10 o'clock no new testimony after 10 p.m. all right well then I think um yeah it's over tried I really building yeah all right we're going to uh we're going to wrap up here members of the public I apologize for not opening up the questions immediately but it seems that we we had none again I just want to make a call members of the public that would like to speak in any land use issue that was not on our agenda now is the time to approach again let the record reflect that there was none um the next meeting Nancy could you help us out with packets what we're hearing at our February 11th meeting I know we handed out a number of different packets should the board members all have the materials they need for those two cases that night February 11th yes you should have no you have visions and Pathways I have Rockland okay okay so there will be delivery that will go out members of the public our next meeting is February 11th 2025 700 p.m. in this room there's no other board business I oh we need oh we need to tell you when you're coming back we close yeah we would love to be back here as soon as possible all right the uh what's the next available March 25th I I was going to suggest March 25th no I'm sorry I was going to suggest March 11th because Starbucks needs to R notice Deli Holdings if they're not ready to proceed at least if we 11 slot and if somehow belly did come back could we make sure that March 25th would we can get them in March 25th is the two new applications including um storage facility so what would happen if Starbucks so if 311 didn't pan out we'd have to carry have to carry 41 41 is technically the first open meeting I'm sorry 48 48 okay we're booked double booked or triple booked every meeting yep till April all right so Mr Silber it sounds like we're going to attempt to March 11th sir do we do we have priority over uh applications that haven't already commenced I would just don't know customary how it works Starbucks is is been not Starbucks right um Nancy had mentioned two that hadn't started but I'm we could work it out it's Le Holdings though I mean they've been scheduled for 311 so technically we did start that case and it in the first 20 minute but it did start so fair enough we'll let the lawyer you guys duke it out but you know I I do want to get you back in here we're going to put you down for March 11th uh worst case it would come back on 48 if both of those applicants let me just confirm and make sure unless you want 48 now so you know you have it that again unless you want the April 8th date now so you know that you have it because on the 11th you know I don't know how much time you're going to have um the Starbucks is a definite I don't know about belly but Starbucks yeah I mean the chances of actually proceeding on the 11th are SL yeah unless belly back out again yeah and and and Mike Starbucks is is resubmitting a whole new site plan it's not like they're coming back with some tweaks it's a whole new site plan we if we take April 11th April 8th I'm sorry April 8th um we are guaranteed per Mr orer suggestion that that we would be I I think you could have the whole night yes yeah [Music] okay we will take it all right thank you sold to you all right so this case is going to continue April 8th 2025 700 p.m. in this room our next meeting again will be February 11th 2025 zoning board members will get a delivery a packet delivered to them um with that motion to adjourn Mr Wy Mr Boro thank you everyone have a good evening thank you