ednesday, April 14th, 2026, and this meeting is hereby called to order. Adequate notice of this meeting was provided in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act, NJSA 104-6.
Specifically, on January 28th, 2026, proper notice was sent to the electronic news sources of record filed with the municipal court at the Township of Bridgewater and posted on the municipal bulletin board. Please be aware of the zoning board of adjustment policy for
public hearings. No new applications will be heard after 9:30 p.m. and no new testimony will be taken after 10 p.m. And then you can read the rest in terms of hearing assistance and other accommodations should they be required. You can make the arrangements for those
in advance. Uh all of our meetings are recorded and we have transcribers here as well, but they're recorded and broadcast on YouTube and people are able to um not only watch live but also make the replay. So when we're addressing
each other, when we're providing testimony, we need to speak into the microphone and make sure that everybody can hear us clearly for that two-fold purpose of having anybody in the audience hear us and the recordings as well. So, with that, I'm going to invite you
to stand if you're able and salute the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. So, we have a few missing people today, but Nancy Propes, who was our expert at just about everything, is not here this evening. Katherine, who's the expert on all other things,
is going to lead us through and and play some of NY's role today. So, you're gonna um start with a roll call. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh Mr. Koulak, >> yes. >> Mr. Widelli, >> uh here. >> Mr. Sim >> here. >> Mr. Franco >> here. >> Mr. Fresco
>> here. >> Miss Henderson Rose >> here. >> Mr. Gi >> here. >> Miss Wisman >> here. >> Mr. Vasio >> here. >> Mr. Kucci >> here. >> Mr. Mcnella >> here. >> We have a quorum. >> Okay. And our professionals are here. >> Professionals. Mr. Oler >> here.
>> Mr. Burr >> here. >> And Miss Armed is here. >> And Mr. Armed is here. Very well. Um, before we get started, I'm going to open the meeting to the public for any matters not listed on on today's agenda. So, if you're a member of the public and
you have a matter that you need to address this board on that's not part of tonight's agenda, you have a few seconds to come up. But seeing none, I'm going to close that portion of the meeting. Thank you. Now, we have some minutes that we'd like to approve. And chatting
briefly with Mrs. Zamin we the the minutes that we're approving is for the zoning board of adjustment regular meeting minutes December 9th 2025 and Mrs. Zamin has gone through and made the various changes but
I will make a motion to approve the minutes uh as changed by and Nancy made some changes on it. So, uh, the revised version was already emailed to everyone.
>> Everyone got an email >> with the revisions on it. So, >> um, >> and Rich, they were just editorial type >> changes. >> They were just editorial. Yes. And you have them in your >> Yeah, I saw that earlier. Okay. >> Okay.
>> So, Mrs. Amin has made a motion to approve the minutes and Mr. Widley has seconded. Do we have a roll call? >> Yes, we have six eligible members. Uh, Mr. Kulak, >> yes. >> Mr. Whiteelli. >> Uh, yes. >> Min changes >> with the changes. Yes.
>> Min. >> Yes. >> Mr. Fresco. >> Yes. >> Mr. Geski? >> Yes. >> Mr. Basio? >> Yes. >> Thank you. So, we have a few applications today. The first on our agenda is an initial
hearing for application number 2524ZB Solar Landscape LLC. It's block 303, lot 8.04,22 Vanvetin Drive. And representing the applicant is
>> Good evening, Donna Jennings from the law firm of Will Goldman and Spitzer. >> Welcome, Miss Jennings. So, we're going to let you get settled, but at the same time, um, let us know how you would like to proceed and with your opening statement and perhaps who
you're going to call first. >> Yes. I'll start with my opening statement and I'll introduce the uh, witnesses. >> Very well. Thank you. >> Okay. As the board is aware, the applicant is seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval, a D1 use
variance, and if deemed necessary, bulk variances for existing conditions to install rooftop community solar panels with associated ground and roof mounted equipment on the existing buildings on property located at 22 Vanviton Drive
and identified as block 303, lot 8.04 on the township's tax map. As some of you may recall, we were here about a year and a half ago also seeking use variance approval and site plan from this board for a similar project on Van Durn. And
for those that aren't here, I'm going to give you a little bit of background on community solar. So, Solar Landscape is the premier commercial rooftop solar developer in the country. As a leader in commercial real estate clean energy development, the applicant has invested heavily into its building capabilities
to support the next phase of its growth. Over the last few years, the applicant has secured approximately 847 million in project investment and financing enable it to grow its growth and contrib to power over 50,000 households.
The state first launched the community solar program as a pilot program in 2018, and the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities has since established a permanent community solar program. Individuals and businesses are now able to greatly benefit from solar energy systems without needing to install solar
panels on their own property. Instead, solar energy is generated offsite for use by members of the program who receive several benefits, including paying a reduced energy bill. Significantly, these community solar program projects are required to serve a
majority of low and moderate income households. The record will reflect that the applicant satisfies both the positive and the negative criteria required to grant the use variance. The positive criteria satisfied is a matter of law because the municipal land use law specifically recognizes solar energy
facilities as inherently beneficial uses or a use which is universally considered a value to the community because it fundamentally serves the public good. The record will further reflect that the applicant satisfies the negative criteria because the impact on the
surrounding properties and the impact on the intent and purpose of the zone plan and zoning ordinance are dimminimous. Generally, the proposed panels and equipment will not have any impact on the surrounding land uses with respect to noise, odor, aesthetics or glare. There are also existing non-conforming
conditions with respect to minimum required lot area, front yard setback and one sideyard setback. While variance relief is not required because the application does not worsen the deviations, the board should grant the use variance. If the board grants the use variance, any bulk variances would
be subsumed pursuant to Price Vimei. In support of the application, the applicant rely on the testimony of the following witnesses. Courtney Breeze, who is the applicant's representative, Ryan Hosi, the site engineer, and Andrew Janu, our planner. As a matter of
recordkeeping, we are in receipt of the following reports. The planning department report dated April 10th, 2026. The engineer/planner dated April 9th, 2026. Zoning officer dated March 27, 2026.
Environmental/halth dated April 6, 2026. Fire official dated March 27th, 2026. Traffic safety police dated February 13, 2026. Sewer utility dated February 12, 2026. and code enforcement dated February
12th, 2026. So, with that, I'd like to call up our first witness, Courtney Breeze. Uh, we can have her sworn in and we can begin. >> So, Miss Breeze, would you raise your right hand? And, you know, I'm going to have our professional stand and raise their hands as well, please. You
solemnly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help your God. You >> and your full name for the record? Britney Breece. >> Spell your last name. >> Uh, B R E S E. >> And we also have
>> Thank you. >> And Courtney, you can sit right over here next to me if you'd prefer. >> Or do you want to stand? >> It's your choice. >> Okay. >> And hopefully this works. >> Sounds like it's going to work. you
would please recite for us a little bit about your background, credentials and so on and what you're doing here tonight. >> Yes. Um, so I work at Solar Landscape. I am a preconstruction manager. Um, so you'll find out, we actually go over it. I do a lot of the due diligence on the
properties for these projects to see if we can even use them for community solar. >> And she's more of a fact witness as opposed to an expert like my other two witnesses. >> And you work directly for solar landscapes. >> Correct. Yes. >> Thank you. And if you could just for the uh board's b benefit, can you just give
a brief overview of solar landscape who they are? >> Yep. Um so Solar Landscape is the leading commercial and community solar developer in the US. Um we develop, install, and operate solar projects on commercial and industrial rooftops. We've deployed more than 400 megawatts
of renewable energy projects across hundreds of projects and leased rooftops. >> Okay. And when when was Solar Landscape formed? uh in 2012 and we've been the forefront of the community solar program since it started in 2018. >> And where are you located?
>> Aspbury Park. >> And approximately how many employees you now employ? >> About 350 employees. >> And could you just you indicated that you help uh with the due diligence site selection? So can you indicate to the board why this particular site was selected? >> Yep. So we do the due diligence again to
see if they're even able to be used for these projects. Um so that involves utility grid availability um and capacity, amount of roof space, the age of the existing roof and the integrity of it and then the structural stability of the building.
>> Okay. And in this particular project, do you have a lease agreement with the property owner? >> Yes. >> And can you confirm that you already have the equipment and panels and are ready to proceed if the board would grant an approval? >> We do have the equipment and are ready for installation. if you could just explain for the board uh how you go
about the BPU approvals. What's the overall approval process and how do you get awarded? >> Um so these projects are awarded through the community solar energy program that is run by the board of public utilities. So this project was actually awarded to
us in the 2024 program. Um the process for the BPU is submitting an application for review and at minimum with the application we have to provide a initial site plan of what we think we're going to be working with um conditional
approval from the utility uh and submission of non-ministerial permits which would have been our zoning application for this. >> Okay. And what benefits are there of community solar? >> Um it's electricity at a discounted rate. And how do you market that?
>> Um, we like to work with the towns to send out uh newsletters, have hosted centers and libraries, senior centers, wherever we could possibly work with you guys on doing that. >> Okay. And how do you ensure that a majority of >> I have a quick question for you. Are your installations both commercial and
residential or commercial only is part of this program? >> It's just it so it's a commercial installation. We use commercial rooftops, but these systems actually feed back into the grid. So that's what we're being awarded in these programs.
They feed back into the grid and the customers who sign up for the projects will be assigned to specific community solar projects because we have hundreds of them. Um and then they're awarded that discounted rate. So it goes through the utility and they get a discounted
rate on their bill. And part of your site selection and due diligence was you mentioned the structural integrity of the roof and the building. Do you hire professionals who make that um determination? >> Yes, we hire professional engineers.
They actually go out and do the investigations on the on the buildings um and do the calculations, reports, all that sort of stuff for us. >> Okay, great. Thank you. And if you could just indicate how do you does solar ensure that the majority
of the affordable housing uh households receive this benefit. >> So it is a state requirement that 51% must go to low moderate income households. Um when a person is interested they apply and that is covered in the application process. Um
the 51% can't be diverted to nonLMI customers or households um or to specific individuals. So LMI was just short for low moderate income. >> Correct. Yes. Okay. Sorry. >> Um can you explain how customers receive the benefits and their discounted utility bill?
>> Yep. So it recently happened that the utilities moved to consolidated billing. So that's what I was explaining is they will still get their one bill from the utility and it reflects the discount that they are receiving from the solar
program that they're assigned to. >> Okay. Okay. And if you could just um talk a little bit about the maintenance and security of the panels, like how do the panels get cleaned? How do you deal with snow? Those kind of things. >> Um so we don't clean the panels, we rely on rainwater to clean them naturally. We
don't move snow or remove snow, sorry. We allow it to melt naturally. Um and then our solar systems have monitoring systems that connect to our computers. They let us know if anything is not working properly. Um, whatever the case may be to let us know that we need to
get out there to check on the system. >> And how do you get up to the roof? >> Uh, we use ladders or whatever is needed for the particular building. Um, in this case, we're able to use an extension ladder and proper safety to access the building. >> And can you explain why Solar chooses
wall-mounted versus ground mounted equipment for the projects? >> Yep. Um so the utility requires certain equipment for these installations to be operational. Um due to the size and functionality, some equipment must be ground mounted. Um while other equipment
can be wall-mounted, but we work with the utilities to determine like best location on these properties to you know least disturb the area. Um and like best way to connect to the existing electrical infrastructure for the
utility >> and it is ultimately the utility company who dictates where the equipment is going to go. >> Correct. >> Okay. And can you address your construction timeline and any required staging that you might need for this project? We're looking at August, September to start installation and then
um mechanical completion by December. >> And when would the um facility be operational? Do you go online right away or is there a certain delay? >> We don't go online right away. We wait for the utility has to install their certain equipment. Um and then they also
require their own inspections along with town inspections. Um and then once they do that they will then issue we call it PTO which is permission to operate and then we get the thumbs up that that system is on. >> Okay. And can you just confirm the panel lifespan and address your
decommissioning process? >> So the panel lifespan is sorry 25 years. We have a decommissioning plan. Um and if that wasn't shared with you we can absolutely share a copy of that with you. Um, per
Solar Landscap's agreement with the property owner, all facilities must be removed and lease property must be returned to its original condition that it was in prior to the installation. >> Just so I understand the decommissioning process, is that at the end of the
useful life or if the property hypothetically were sold, does that trigger a decommissioning? >> No. So, you're you have a lease agreement. So, whoever were to buy the building, they would be buying your lease agreement. Okay. So, the lease agreement would govern and so on. I got
that part. And then with respect to damage though during the normal course of operations, we have some pretty nasty storms, hail, things like that that could potentially damage solar panels. How do you deal with that? >> Um, that's what we're talking about. We have our systems that let us know if
anything is down, which would even be a cracked panel, damaged panel, anything like that. We will be able to tell that certain panels are not operating properly. And then we have an operations and maintenance team that we send out to upkeep the system. So they would replace we we would replace any panels that need
to be replaced. Anything like that. >> I see. So if anything's damaged as we were describing your team comes out, evaluates and says we can replace this. I doubt it can be fixed, but if they could, they'll fix it. What have you, those kinds of things. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> That's all the direct questions I have for this witness. >> Okay. So, I'm going to ask the public if they have any questions. Um, I'm sorry. >> Let me start with the board members since I don't see any members of the public anyway, but I will start with the board members. Miss Rose, >> yes. How do you select the site? Does
the does the property owner come to you and say, "I have this wonderful building," or do you drive around and say, "That's a wonderful building." >> So, it's kind of a little bit of both. Um, this particular property is a client that we have multiple buildings with them. Um, so they will kind of let us
know what they're working with and then exactly that like we have to look into the property first to even be able to see if we can use it. But sometimes, you know, we do go out to promote and see if anybody is interested in le leasing their rooftops to us. >> Thank you.
>> Did you look at any other uh sites in Bridgewater? >> Yes. Yeah. So, we already have uh three and five federine federine. >> Vind approved by this board about a year and a half ago.
>> Um at at the end of life, do you have to decommission or can you refurbish? >> Uh we decommission and then there's a recycle program, but I'm sure if possible if we could sign up for, you know, if we can get awarded another project through the BPU, we'd be able to
install another system. Correct. >> Yeah. So, you would just update the >> the whole system? >> Yep. >> And are the panels um fed independently or they're in series? >> I don't know if I know. >> So, each one does a home run back to the inverter.
>> Um they're all connected interconnected current and then run back to the inverter and then that feeds back into the or transformer and then into the the grid. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Questions from any board members for Miss Priest's testimony?
Who who is the owner of the uh building? >> It's National Storage Associates. >> Okay. It is storage facility, >> correct? >> Is it a concrete structure? >> Um I do I'm not 100% sure on that. I would have to double check.
>> It appears to be a >> believe so >> clad with steel. I'm presuming it's got a steel frame inside, but honestly, I didn't go inside to look at the construction, so I couldn't answer that directly. I'm sure somebody knows which would be useful. But you're saying the
um that your structural engineers have evaluated the building itself. >> Correct. And they provide the calculations to us to let us know that it's able to hold a solar system like the load of the solar system on it. >> Okay. >> They installed similar rooftop solar
panels on similar storage buildings. >> Yeah, we've done at least 75 in New Jersey alone. Well, >> you're asking specifically about a self- storage facility. Are you asking? >> A lot of them are on the self- storage facilities. >> Well, this this company in particular, National Storage, >> Cub Smart, we do a lot for them, too.
>> Public storage. >> Thanks. Board professionals, questions for Miss Breeze and her testimony. >> Just for a moment. >> Oh, please go ahead, Mr. Vesio. >> So, um there's been instances with fires on roofs, uh with solar panels. We actually had one in town at the ice
skating ring um north of 22. Is there anything inherent to the kind of design that you're providing here that helps mitigate uh fire uh hazards? >> Um I'm not sure I completely understand the question.
>> Right. So we've we've had fires actually in town um with with solar with solar panels uh on roofs. I guess it's a it's a hazard that kind of comes along with these especially if you know maintenance is not performed. Is there anything sort of um kind of you design for to help
mitigate fires from potentially spreading providing roof access for you know fire department anything like that? >> A lot of like a lot of that comes down to installation um where we have a safety team and a quality team that actually goes out through the process to
double check to make sure everything's installed properly. A lot of the times your fire happens. Sorry, I used to do resi solar. A lot of the times fire happens of something not being installed properly or connected properly. So, we have a team that goes out and double
checks and like they go through photos, go to on-site visits for all of that. Um, as for like fire safety plan, I I don't have one on hand, but we could absolutely provide something for that. Uh we do have a safety and hazard plan
that we could provide as well. >> Okay. Uh is it possible make a condition for the applic and and provide maybe any access ladders as needed? >> So the fire department signed off on it on February 26 and had no objection. So
the building code requires certain uh setbacks between the panels and stuff like that and the ridge line and everything so the fire department can get up there and quickly put out a fire etc. So your fire department has reviewed the site plan and the layout of the but we could you know if there's something else that you're looking for
we can certainly um speak to them but they didn't have any comments. >> Are the panels mounted um at an angle or on the flat? Uh >> they're going to be flat on your roof. Okay. I have a question >> please. Mrs. I mean
>> I don't know if you will answer it this or someone else will what is the total uh kilowatt rating of all three buildings together when you the the rating power rating of the all this >> so the site engineer was going to
address that but if you're asking the total number of homes that would be powered would be 69 and the kilowatts is 572,828 okay >> total Any other questions from the board members? >> Board professionals, questions for Ms.
Breeze and her testimony. >> Yes. Um just uh I noticed that in the in the submission there was a um report for the decommissioning of a rooftop solar array. Um, in your experience, have you been has Solar Landscape had to
decommission any um facilities? >> Not just yet. No. >> What's the typical lifespan of a of one of these rooftop mounted? >> About 25 years. >> Okay. Um, >> so we have not hit our mark just yet. >> And so they're only typically decommissioned, you know, after 25 years. There's usually not a period
where, you know, the techn is outdated or something and they decide to decommission beforehand. >> Correct. And if like again if they're not operating properly, we're going to go out and you know swap something out whether it's panel whatever it may be. >> Okay. Thank you very much. That's all I had. >> Thank you Mr. Bur.
>> Thank you Mr. Chairman. Um just a few questions. So as far as the approval process, I think you mentioned the utility company. Have they already reviewed and approved this? I I assume PSENG or is that still pending? >> Yes, we have to get approval from them
at the beginning to even be able to apply. >> Okay. for the community solar program. >> And are there any other approvals outstanding at this point or do you have everything in hand pending this board's approval? >> We have everything in hand. It's just everything after that we would need to
get. >> Okay. And earlier um we heard mentioned by Miss Jennings the prior project from a year and a half ago that was approved at the end of Vanveton at the intersection of Findern. There were a few conditions in that approval. Um, one
of which dealt with some enhanced signage, safety signage. I see there's some signs on the engineers plans. I just want to make sure that to the extent uh that we can replicate that condition with this approval. If we get to that point, that's something that's reasonable to you? >> Yes, absolutely.
>> Okay. And then also there was a condition and there was a little discussion, but a condition requiring a decommissioning plan, a safety manual be submitted, which I know was submitted for the other application. You would agree to that as well? >> Yep. I have those already. >> Perfect. >> Put together.
>> I don't think they were submitted, but you will submit them. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> You just mentioned the that you have to get the sign off for from the is it the BPU or is it the local utility itself that you're in partnership with on that approval?
>> We have to go through both. So, the actual installation and like initial approval is with the utility. So, this is PSEG. Yes. um we have to get that initial approval to even be able to apply to win projects for the community solar program. So we got their approval
then submitted our application to the BPU and then we were awarded this project. Right. So, would I be correct in saying that it's the public service, electric and gas, so to speak, that that you're the strength of their approval is
what allows you to move forward and have that um assure the public that there's a level of safety here that you couldn't assure them yourself. >> Correct. Yeah. because they'll look into if there's grid capacity or availability and that's kind of where we go through
like go from there with the utility. >> Okay. Thank you. >> One more question if you would. Um are nonprofit historic properties part of the are they eligible to apply for the electrical
benefit? >> It's I'm pretty sure it's just residents. Um I have not heard anything about like nonprofit but we could absolutely like find out and confirm too. >> Thank you. >> What happens if your organization
goes out of business? >> Um so if our organization goes out of business, this is a profitable system. So it will be sold if if anybody wants to purchase it and you know again it's profitable. So somebody buying it is
very very very likely. >> Can I make a comment on that? >> Um about a year and a half ago I put solar on my house through a program and shortly after we went live the company went bankrupt the financial end and sure enough they do sell off and now I just
deal with a different company. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> That answers >> yes. >> They do there the big demand for the there is profit in it. They just had other issues. >> Correct. So, if one's not going to have it, another's going to take it over.
>> But right now, your organization has that um alliance with the Board of Public Utilities and the utilities themselves. Um and so that would somebody coming in as a qualified buyer would have to meet those same requirements. >> Yep.
>> Okay. Thank you. Additional questions. Board members, professionals. Miss Breeze, thank you for your testimony. Miss Jennings. >> Yeah. This time I'd like to call the site engineer, Ryan Hosi. >> I think we didn't swear him in yet,
right? We don't see that. No. Give it a minute. >> Okay, it's up. >> There it is. >> Would you uh let me swear you in before we get any further? >> Would you raise your right hand, please? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony
you'll give to this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? the help you got. Your full name, please. >> Brian Hosi. >> And spell your last name. >> H O L L O S I. >> Thank you. Donna, this document that's being handed
out will be A1 and he'll describe what that is once they're handed out. Yep. And so Ryan, if if you could for the benefit of the board, please give your background and qualifications. >> I'm a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey since 2024. Um,
I've testified in front of numerous boards across New Jersey, but never in front of this board. >> Board accept its qualifications. >> Your license is current. is current and in good standing. >> Any questions? >> Um just just so I understand the
affiliation, you work for Short Point Engineering or Short Point Engineering? >> For Shortoint Engineering. >> Okay. And is it yourself or is many members of the firm? I'm just curious because I don't not familiar with that. >> Yeah, it's a it's a small firm. There's about five of us. >> Five of you. Okay. Great. You want to share anything about your educational
background, things like that? >> I graduated with a civil engineering degree from the College of New Jersey. Um, and I've been working in the civil engineering field for about seven years now. >> Great. Thank you. So, the board accepts your credentials. You can continue. >> Thank you. And just uh for the record, Ryan, you just handed out an exhibit
that we're going to mark as A1. Can you just describe it for the record before we get into your testimony? >> Yes. Um the first page of that exhibit is a zoomedin um equipment um just show showcasing the um equipment location and then the second page is an aerial
exhibit which the existing um aerial with our proposed roof mounted solar panels in blue and the ground mounted equipment in the southwest location. If you could see my cursor circling. >> Okay, thank you. If you could then um
just confirm that your office has prepared the site plan we're going to discuss this evening. >> Yes. >> And if you could describe the existing site conditions. >> Yes. The property is known as design designated as block 303 lot 8.04 and it's containing about 12.3 acres and is
located within the M2 zoning district. It has frontages along Vanvaten Drive and the surrounding property is industrial use. Um the site is currently developed with two three two-story warehouse buildings and one-story office building and those will remain. And the
existing building has a footprint of 4 44,232 ft and the height of the storage buildings are about 15 ft. >> And if you could describe the applicant's proposal. >> Applicant is seeking approval to construct roof mounted solar panels and
an roof mounted inverter and associated ground mounting equipment on the existing building. Um the ground mounted equipment propo proposed includes one new utility pole, a transformer, a building mounted panel board, um and other associated equipment as located in
the brown hatch where my cursor is located. Um the roof mounted the roof mounted inverters is about 7 ft to the roof height, but it will not exceed the building height limitation on the site, which is 45 ft. And the panels will lay
flat on the roof and add approximately five inches of height to the building and once again not exceeding the height of the limitation in the zone. >> And if you could provide some statistics on the panels and the power. >> Yes, the total amount of modules is 921
and it will power the power produced will be 572,000 kilowatt hours per year and this will power about 69 homes annually. And can you just address existing non-conforming conditions? >> Yes, there are three um existing non-conforming conditions. The first one
is for minimum lot area where 20 acres is required and 12.3 acres is existing. Um the minimum front yard setback where 150 ft is required and 76.6 ft is existing and the minimum sideyard setback where 75 ft are required and
55.9 ft is existing. And you had an opportunity to review um all the board uh review letters prior to the meeting. >> Yes. >> And are there any specific uh comments that you need to address or is the applicant uh going to be able to comply with all the comments? >> We will be able to comply with all the comments. >> And there were a couple of outside agency approvals. Can you just go
through those outside agency approvals and indicate whether the applicant has received those approvals already? >> Yes, we have um the Somerset County Planning Board approved and we resubmitted the new plans on April 6, 2026. Um FAA, we have exemptions. um
PSENG um a conditional interconnection approval and the community solar acceptance extension. >> That's all the direct questions I have for the site engineer. >> Mr. Sorry, Mr. Hoosi, when you put together your renderings, your plans and
so on, did you find that any of the ground mounted equipment or any of the ground facilities that are required to run this in any way affected any of the setbacks that you mentioned earlier? Or are they within the the scope of the
property as it appears on the on the pictures that you sent us? >> Yes, there's no issues. And if you look at the first page of that equipment exhibit, it shows that um the setbacks for each the side and front yard and the utility pole is a function of
doing what? >> That is what PSDNG has to for us to tie into the existing grid. >> And that's a new pole. >> Yes. >> And is that something that you're responsible for constructing, erecting? I believe that
the solar works with um PSENG. >> Okay. So, one one of them will be responsible. I don't know whether it's PSENG or solar the company itself. Do you guys know? >> It's usually the utility company. >> Utility company.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. You're adding a new overhead um electrical line that connects to this proposed utility riser. Um what's the height of that? believe the height is I don't want to
quote me. Um we could provide details. I'm not exactly sure what the height is, >> but usually they're around 14 ft. >> Could that impede uh fire department ladder truck? Any trucks that use this site? 14T would actually be lower than
the posted uh typical highway bridge clearance. I'm pretty certain the utility company works with fire and safety and just the design standards of New Jersey and the basically util basic utility poll will be provided.
>> Okay. Any reasons why you didn't go underground from the existing utility poll? >> So, as Courtney was stating previously, this was what PSDNG proposes to them and they don't really have much wiggle room to work with.
>> Okay. Thank you. So, Mr. Vesio, you're asking specifically about the height of the utility pole. Um, and I think you reference the fact that this is an industrial site. Not only the self- storage facility, but the whole area has
warehousing, logistics facilities, and so on. A lot of very large tractor trailers using the area. Is that what your concern was, or >> Correct. There's an overhead line across one of their access roads here. Um I'm hoping it's higher than 14 feet because
that actually um I think overpasses in this state and or at least 146. Um so just want to make sure it doesn't conflict with any sort of track uh truck uh traffic or you know the fire department as well. You know their ladder truck uh that's where you have
your transformers um and uh I guess that's where your inverters are there as well. So that's going to be a you know We could definitely >> higher risk area of the facility >> of the utility pool. Once we have that, I just don't know the right now. >> Whose infrastructure is that though?
That's PSCG's. >> It's PSCG structure. They're going to put the poll up. >> You guys don't have anything to do with that. >> Yeah. >> What's that? >> I don't think they would have anything to do with that, I imagine. Right. That's PSG. >> PSG, the utility company. >> Yeah. >> Mr. Chairman, I have a followup.
>> Please. Where does how does the power get from the the building that's on the top of the picture to the second building to that pole eventually? Where's where's that power running >> there? If if you refer to our site plans that we previously submitted, page two,
there is an underground trench that will go connect each building. >> You're trenching in the You couldn't do the same possibly to the PSCG pole or like have PCG put it
on the other side of the uh the driveway. >> I can't speak on PSNG what they wanted, but I'm assuming since this is a motor detention basin, they didn't want to go through that. But again, I don't
>> I'm not sure what PSCG's idea was, >> but I'm sure your client will will stipulate to the fact that the utility pole working with PSCG is an appropriate height to clear the various commercial kinds of traffic that are there and if necessary make that a condition of
approval. But the idea is just to acknowledge that we have an industrial site. We've got very tall trucks running through it. We want to make sure that the poles are high enough to provide safe passage for that those trucks and any fire apparatus that might go through. >> Yeah. No, we'll we'll certainly confirm
that. >> Okay. Thank you, >> M. Rose. >> Are you designing for the hundredyear rainstorm that comes every 20 years or so now in terms of where you've put things on the ground? >> It's wet.
>> So, this is in zone Z um zone X. Um and there is no design standard for zone X. is out. It's outside of the flood zone. >> Okay. Yeah, maybe in that 20-year storm, but those these big storms that we've been having lately, they're wet. But
just keep that in mind. Someone should keep that in mind when you're putting your stuff on the ground. You might want to just raise it up just a tad. >> Any other questions from the members of the board? board professionals. Would you like to talk to Mr. Helosi about his testimony?
>> Thank you, Mr. Pulak. Um, I really have one question, I guess, to follow up on the underground or the overhead wire. There is a requirement and in the joint review memo, there was questions about um compliance with the design standards for all renewable solar energy
facilities on roof and ground and one of them is that electric and utility wires be buried underground. So I think a design waiver would either need to be sought for that even if it is PSENG driving that or if you're willing to comply as a condition to work with PN PSENG to get that wire underground. Um
that those are two options. >> Yeah. No, we're going to seek the design waiver because getting trying to get PS&G to change the design is like almost impossible. >> Okay. And then I would just um if the applicant's willing a condition related to what Mr. Vesio brought up about the
height of that wire being checked with um at least the the fire department as far as height. Um I think that a sign off from the fire official would be warranted. >> Yeah, that's agreeable. >> Thank you. I have nothing further.
>> Mr. Bur, questions for Mr. Hosi. >> I just I want to I want to just touch on the exact improvements that are being proposed. I know you gave us an overview um of the the roof mounted solar panels. Does each building then have the
inverter or is it just one building that has an inverter? >> It's just the one building. >> It's just the the smaller building. And can can you describe for us the height, the size of that inverter? I know that the panels I think you testified are going to be flat and they're only going
to be about five or six feet or six six inches high. What about the inverter? The inverters are about seven feet high and there is a detail on the um site plan sheet two but yeah they're about seven feet tall. >> Can you just describe for the board what
that inverter looks like? Is it just a metal cabinet? Is it >> I believe it's a metal cabinet. Um again I don't design the inverter so I'm not sure what it officially looks like. >> And is it going to be visible? I know it's an industrial area. Can it be
screened or is it set back far enough to where it won't be visible? it can be screened if that's something that you would prefer. Um, but right now there is no parapit on the roof. So, >> okay. Um, and then as far as the ground mounted equipment, I see you have a a
transformer and it looks like there's um a PSNG cabinet and panel board. Is is that all that's proposed to be mounted on the ground? >> Yes, the um panel board is going to be building mounted. The transformer is
going to be ground mounted. >> So the the panel board is mounted to the side of the building. >> Yes. >> Okay. At at grade level or is it elevated? >> Um it's at grade level, but it goes about like 7 feet tall. >> Okay. And and how big is that
transformer? >> It's about 50 square feet. >> That is about six feet tall. >> Okay. So, in terms of imperous coverage, uh, disturbance, you're really talking about minimal, >> correct, >> increases, correct? >> Okay. And, um, I know Miss Sarmad
mentioned or I think your prior testimony was the the flood zone X. Um, as far as any other environmental constraints, wetlands, flood hazard area, repairarian zones, are you out of all of those other areas? >> Yes, we're out of the wetlands area.
>> Okay. So, no D permits are necessary? Nope. >> Okay. Um trying to think if I had anything else we had, um in our joint memo, there were two comments in our miscellaneous
portion of the review about updating the signature block um revising the construction details to provide um trench pavement details for the underground connections. You have no problem with making those revisions, correct? >> Yep. No problem. All right. Very good.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, Mr. Burr. I'm going to ask if there are any members of the public who would like to ask questions for Mr. Heli about his engineering testimony. And seeing none, we'll close that
section. And Miss Jennings, >> I'll call my planner now, Andrew Janu. >> Very well. Good evening. You >> raise your right hand, please. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you'll give to this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do.
>> And your full name, please? >> Andrew Janu. J an i. and Andrew if you could for the benefit of the board give your background and qualifications. >> Certainly. >> Uh again, my name is Andrew Janu. I'm a principal in the firm of Beacon Planning
and Consulting Services. We're located at 315 Highway 34 in Colts Neck, New Jersey. Been a principal in that firm for the past 28 years. have a bachelor's and master's degree in civil engineering from the New Jersey Institute of Technology. I am a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey as well as a member of the American
Institute of Certified Planners. Currently serving as the planner for the Burrow of Carter, Middle Sex County and the Bureau of Freehold in Mammoth County as well as redevelopment planner for Bayon and South Amboy. Uh in 2022, Governor Murphy appointed me to the state board of professional planners. I've testified throughout the state as
well as before this board previously. >> The board accept his qualifications. We accept your qualifications, Mr. Janu. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> If you could, Andrew, just for the record, you've had an opportunity to visit the site and area around the site. >> I have. I visited the site. I reviewed your ordinances, your master plan, as
well as the correspondence and review letters related to this application. >> And you understand that the relief that the applicant is requesting this evening and if you could appine in your professional opinion as to whether or not the applicant has satisfied both the positive and negative criteria. >> Certainly. Uh starting the site is
located within the township's M2 general manufacturing uh district which permits fabricating, printing, publishing uh uses, research laboratories, and the like, as well as uh the existing uh infrastructure that's in place today. Uh pursuant to your ordinance section
123-335, roof mounted solar and photovalttaics facilities uh are designed and designated as accessory uses within this district. meaning uh if this were a facility that was proposed that was
feeding the power back to this uh the buildings that are on site, we wouldn't be here tonight. It would be an acceptable accessory use. The differentiation uh and what distinguishes us as a second principal use uh pursuant to the interpretation of your ordinance is that the power is
being redirected from the site to the grid to be resold to residential customers, 51% of which will be low and moderate income households. Um while technically it is a second principal use on the site, it's a very passive use, meaning the uh there are no moving
parts, there are no employees, there are no visitors to the site unless there's a malfunction. Um there are no customers that come to the site. This is essentially a stationary installation uh with a redirection of the power to the grid. Um and that's that's an important distinction when you're looking at a
second principal use in terms of uh it doesn't add any uh essentially intensity to the use of the property. It's not adding any traffic. It's not adding any person's noise. >> It's very passive. >> When you when you talk about that specific issue that we're addressing,
and that's essentially why you're here. You have a second business, if you will >> on the site, >> on the site. >> And that that business is a forprofit business. >> Yes, it is. >> Are the owners of the business and the building, the stealth storage facility
the same or are they different? >> Separate. So they're separate. >> Is there any relationship, any affiliation at all? Just completely separate. >> Completely separate and distinct. >> Completely separate. So they have or will enter into a lease with the building owner in order to create the
second business. >> Right. >> And what the board was wrestling with in private discussions had more to do with what happens if kind of questions. And maybe you can address some of those. What happens if they want to sell it? Does that change the the approval that
we've given? Does the approval run with the the lease and so on? It got it got to be before you answer it just got to be a little bit confusing as from my point of view as I was looking at it and wondered if you can help us clear it up. >> So the the approval like any land use
approval runs with the land. Um there is a lease agreement that uh will survive any kind of sale of either of the companies. Quite frankly, there's an obligation for the lease term uh by both parties to fulfill the terms of that lease, to have that equipment in
operational uh condition for the full term of the lease, and then the obligations to dismantle and decommission the system at the end of the lease. So that survives all of that if you will, but the uh nothing changes in terms of what this per what this approval will require, what conditions
there are that runs with the land and that survives uh whatever ownership changes there may be. >> Okay. Um thank you. >> Welcome. Uh so the the application tonight as uh as I mentioned is to
construct a photovalttaic facility on top of these three self storage facilities. We are seeking a D1 use variance because this is now a second principal use on the property. It is an independent business uh albeit as I had
mentioned. Uh so we will need that D1 relief. Uh we also have existing conditions on the property uh that were previously approved meaning the minimum lot area where 20 acres was required 12.3 exists and will remain. Minimum front yard setback of 150 ft required
where 76.6 six exists and will remain and minimum sideyard setback 75 ft where 55.9 ft exists and will remain. Those are to the existing self-s storage facility. We are not aggravating uh any of those setbacks nor can we
create any more land in order to become more compliant with the minimum lot area. So those are uh existing deviations that are not impacted or affected at all by this application. Uh, additionally we are seeking the design waiver uh to put the electrical service
line uh between the transformer and the existing electrical service uh via overhead utility pole. The uh existing PSENG service that runs along the southerntherly property line is an overhead service and that is why PSEG is
connecting through another utility pole. They're going pole to pole essentially and that that and as was testified to before that's predetermined by them in terms of how they will interconnect it to their grid. If it were underground um they probably would have put an underground service in but this is a
utility pole running along the southerntherly property line. So they'll be going overhead here. Um, and having dealt with these previously, I do I am aware that both PSEG and JCPNL do uh respect minimum fire clearance and truck clearance under these lines, but certainly that's an acceptable condition
of approval. >> Um, with respect to this application, as you know, we have to reconcile any and all applications with your master plan as well as the municipal land use law. Um your master plan's goals uh in uh specifically state to provide a balanced
land use pattern in the township of residential, commercial, industrial, public, semi-public uh conservation, public open park spaces that support residential neighborhoods. Maintain and strengthen existing commercial districts. Preserve some remaining industrial areas. Uh increase parks,
recreation, open space. Protect environmentally sensitive natural features. accommodate community facilities and facilities for local and regional circulation without placing undue demands on infrastructure including roads. We're on point with that. So, we are supporting a business
that's on the property by providing additional income source to them essentially through leasing their rooftops. We are providing green energy uh to the community at a discounted rate. uh we are doing so within a site that's already been disturbed and constructed without creating uh any more
uh infrastructure requirements other than a simple connection to the line. Uh there was a question from your engineer about what we're doing to imperous. I think we are at 110th of 100th uh in additional but we are certainly below what impervious uh coverage is permitted
on the site. it is minimal and it is essentially the 50 square foot transformer pad that's uh the additional impervious on the site. So we will look at something that's uh properly located. This is an industrial area. Uh this is an existing building that's capable of
housing these uh facilities after you know being scrutinized by our structural team. Uh so I think we're absolutely on point with the goals of your master plan. Uh with respect to the municipal land use law, this board is aware that variances are not granted for the sole benefit applicant. There has to be a
public benefit and I believe there are numerous public benefits uh that are encouraged by this application. Uh Donna had mentioned earlier that uh this use falls under what's known as inherently beneficial within state de uh definitions. So under the municipal land
use law uh a would be to encourage municipal action to guide the appropriate use or development of all lands in the state in a manner which will promote the public health, safety, morals and general welfare. Uh inherently beneficial uses are absolutely on point with that.
They're deemed inherently beneficial and photovalttaic systems are defined within the uh municipal land use law as something that is inherently beneficial because they address an important community benefit that is green renewable energy uh and add that this is
a community uh solar system that will then sell back the power to uh low and moderate income households at a discounted rate. There's certainly something that promotes the health, safety, morals, and general welfare of the community. Uh there is also G, which
is to promote sufficient space and appropriate locations for a variety of agricultural, residential, recreational, commercial, and industrial uses uh in order to meet the needs of all New Jersey citizens. This is uh an industrial property in an industrial zone. We are using existing rooftops. Uh
this is something that will not have any significant visual impact as these panels will lay flat. They're six inches above the rooftop. Uh visually they won't be a nuisance. They're not creating any noise, additional traffic, additional uh trash and the like, which could be a nuisance. So they're properly
located. They're located within a district that can easily uh absorb the impact of these uh of this system. Um and quite frankly, they're in an area that uh is appropriate for this. And in fact, under the municipal landing, had this been a 20 acre site, it would be
permitted as of right in any industrial district. We are 12.3 acres that's under. So again, we're here for the D1 variance. Um, but is something I believe that is appropriate. Uh, and finally, N is to promote the utilization of renewable energy sources. So, uh, we
can't get more on point than that. This is a renewable energy source. It'll have a 25-y year lifespan. It'll provide lowcost uh, green energy to the community. So I do think we uh meet at least three of the criter three of the criteria under municipal land use law that demonstrate public benefit for this
application which brings us to the D1 relief. Um as I previously mentioned this is something that's defined as an inherently beneficial use. uh inherently beneficial use. Uh that term was created to deal with a relatively narrow range
of en enterprises uh so universally considered to be of community value that m municipalities should favorably dispose towards their inclusion. Uh these uses are universally considered of value to the community because they fundamentally serve the public good and promote the general welfare. Uh and
these uses defined within the MLU include but are not limited to such uses as hospitals, schools, child care centers, group homes, wind, solar or photovalttaic energy facilities and structures. Um
the uh use of the term uh inherently beneficial stems from a case known as SECA vo board of adjustment of township of wall uh which dealt with a head trauma center. Uh the SECA court held that they recognized the inherent beneficial use of having the head trauma
center in area and instead turned the focus to the negative criteria. Is this something that can be uh installed and operated as a benefit to the community without creating any undue harm to the immediate neighborhood or to the community. So the SECA court created
what's known as the SECA balance test which is a four-prong test uh to go through the negative criteria. Uh the first prong of the SECA test is to initially identify the public interest at state. In this case, the public interest at stake is the generation of clean renewable energy for use by a
community solar program. Solar array and associated equipment are part of a solar community effort in which community members can join to receive a reduction in electrical bills and it will generate uh energy in a clean uh green fashion. This is a direct community benefit uh
and a contribution to the welfare of the community. The second prong of the Sika test is to identify the detrimental effects that would ensue from the grant of the variance. So these are roof mounted solar panels that are essentially flat. Uh technically this application is for a second principal
use. Uh but visually it will not have a sufficient impact and as I said operationally uh it's very passive. There's going to be very little if any disruption to the operation of the property as it currently exists today. Uh there was some comment about the inverter being 7t tall on one of the
rooftops. We certainly uh think it's reasonable to provide some sort of screening to that if the board so determines that they'd like a visual screen around that. And I think it's practical. Um, but again, this is in a relatively isolated industrial area.
It's not having any meaningful impact on any of the neighbors. Uh, three is to determine whether it can reduce any detrimental impacts. And there go uh we talked about the screening that we can do here. Um, and certainly uh with respect to how it's situated um nothing
else is really visually noticeable. Uh we do have the issue of the design waiver with respect to pole but that is something that's dictated to us by the utility um and they are connecting poleto pole and quite frankly my experience over the years has been not
going to get them to change their minds once they've determined this is how they're connecting. Um so again we can address the detrimental impact of the visual uh of the equipment on the rooftop but I think it's a dimminimous impact at that. And
then finally you have to weigh the positive against the negative criteria. Again this is to permit a regenerative energy uh source. It's a low-scale application. It'll provide sufficient energy for up to 69 homes uh of which 51% will be low and moderate income
households. Renewable energy is widely accepted as something that should be promoted not only on a local but on a state and federal level as well. Uh and we believe when we look at this on balance that in terms of what little if any negative impacts we've identified
that this certainly is a variance that can be granted. Uh with respect to the uh design waiver certainly it can be subsumed uh under the case law price be vamey which supports any bulk relief and design waiverss in cases involving use
variances where the use was not considered or has some special impact on this. Again the uh the one design waver we're seeking would be for the uh poleto- pole connection uh with the wire and the utility pole to be placed by PSENG and again reasonable condition
would be that the safety provides fire, emergency vehicles, and truck traffic underneath that wire. Uh so having said that, that's the conclusion of my testimony. I do think it's a good application. I think it's uh something that this community has embraced before and quite
frankly, we're doing a lot of around the state of New York. >> Thank you for your testimony. Does the does the fact that the underlying building operating as a self-s storage facility in any way impact the business that's on
the roof? And by that I mean we always think about safety first when we look at making any decisions in Bridgewater. So I've got a solar panel which is a passive use as you were describing. Um underneath it I've got individual rollup
doors. I don't know what level of scrutiny the businesses residing in those rollup doors have. Um, and my concern is are they is access to the site uh limited? Do you have to have a key card to get in? I saw a big gate
when I was there today, but it was wide open and I could just drive in to the the storage facilities in the back. So, there was no restriction to that. And I'm asking the question as to whether or not the level of security provided by
the self storage facility is sufficient for the kind of solar business that you're operating. >> So I'll I'll speak in terms of self storage um kind of more generally, but my and >> well this one I'm going to be very specific about. >> Yeah. No. Well, I was going to say I
can't speak to why the gate was open today, but the time I visited I had to get access through stopping at the office to get there. My understanding is >> I did both, by the way. I stopped at the office and the gate was wide open. So, >> uh yeah, my understanding is that typically that gate and is operated by a
key card. Only uh actually only uh tenants that are in good standing can access the facility because they don't want someone taking out their facilities with unpaid bills. Right. >> My understanding is there is security, there is uh limitations in terms of how
access is controlled uh with respect to the buildings themselves. Um self- storage buildings are something that this is commonly associated with. They're again they don't other than move in move outs there's not a lot of activity on these sites. Um,
>> I would say that's generally true, but my observation today was a pretty active um guys pulling up with their vans and trucks and stuff, unloading different kinds of equipment. Well, I would describe them as contractors or businesses operating in that way, which
is quite different than the more uh some of their applications we've seen more recently for self- storage, which really does seem quite um passive in some ways because people put their stuff there and leave it there and exchange seasonally different things.
But this looks a little different to me and I was wondering if you evaluated that as part of your criteria in terms of providing a safe environment. >> Again, knowing there was a gate and when I spoke visiting the site in terms of
getting access, I I was satisfied that there was adequate control. And yeah, certainly uh contractors are people that typically do rent in self- storage facilities, whether it's a plumber or an electrician looking to pick up equipment for the morning run. And my my
experience and the own my own uh experience with my own self- storage facility where my office stores files is typically we try to avoid those between the hours of 8 and 10 and 5 and six when the contractors are coming and going. >> Um they're generally passive and then the other experience I've had is you
know unless there's a college nearby you know you have move in move out for college kids that are taking things for the summer. Do you know if these are open to the roof the the individual storage units if they're >> No, they typically have like a chicken wire across there so that you can't climb over.
>> But these are these are metal frame buildings. These are structural steel, tube steel, >> right? >> So they are very rigid structures. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And I would just add this is a lot less volume of people coming in and out than some of our other sites. We also put these on shopping centers and industrial
warehouse buildings. Sure. >> This is pretty benign use. So the self- storage facilities are actually a preferred roof because there is not a lot of activity. >> Okay. >> But is that is that entrance shared that's shared by the the tractor trailers behind the property? >> Uh yeah, they seem to be storing a
variety of vehicles u behind the the storage facility itself. So if you drive just behind the last building, you'll see all kinds of trucks and other things parked there. And it's difficult. It seems to me that that was the only way to get there. But I mean, I'm looking at
the aerial and if you expanded this, you would probably see three dozen tractor trailers back there. So, I mean, and there's only one way in and out of there. So, then that goes back to this poll too that Mr. Vessio brought up as well from
the safety issues on the site. I just think it's a very different site than >> Yeah. Again, we we we are committed to the proper height on the wire to make sure that any vehicles. But what's typical and what I believe is happening here is self- storage facilities do have
outdoor storage because you're not allowed to in many communities not allowed to store commercial vehicles at your residence. Commercial vehicles may be stored there, boats may be stored there, RVs may be stored there. I think that's what that open space for. Are you are you telling me or are you supposing
because right now it appears that >> I've saw a mix of those types of vehicles there? >> Yeah, I do too. And I'm just I'm wondering out loud is that a separate business than the self- storage business? So, this would be like the third business on the site.
>> I don't know. I mean, I was led to believe that that's part of the self- storage business that you can rent outdoor parking for those types of vehicles. Um, but again, I can't speak as to whether it's the same operator or we just know that that's that site is operated by our landlord.
Having said that, it's still one of the more least conflicted sites that we work with because we do work with heavy industrial sites, heavy warehouse sites, shopping centers where you shopping centers with supermarkets where you have trucks coming in all day and they bring food as well as customers coming in. So
the activity on this site even with that element there I I think is still very favorable because it's it's much more passive than a lot of the other rooftops that host communities. >> Other questions from board members. Johanna,
>> I do have a question. Um, so your application relies on the concept that the power that you're generating is going to be beneficial to the community and you've set aside 51% for the low and moderate income. So the rest of the
power that's being generated, is there any precedent for adding a condition that that that surplus energy not be sold to data centers and therefore taken away from the community? So, I think Courtney testified that she believes it
all goes to residential customers. So, there'll be a a community interface where there'll be signups that are promoted through Bridgewwater's website essentially. So, it'll be strictly available to homeowners and 51% of those homeowners have to qualify as low and
moderate income. >> Okay. Thank you. >> They don't have to be homeowners. They could be >> Mr. Chairman. Just go going back to the the question our chairman had, Mr. Koulak um do you know with with safety um do you know what type of materials
are stored in these buildings do they classify as any sort of like high hazard uh materials you know the occupancy use of these buildings do you have happen to know that >> I I don't know what the terms are um I do know generally self storage does not
permit you to store chemicals or fuels paints and the like um but I can't speak specifically to what restrictions there there are on these but they they are subject to inspection and code. Um and my understanding is these are not hazardous uh storage units.
>> Okay. I mean I would be okay with that. I mean would you agree that if there was let's say a high hazard occupancy occupancy within these buildings would you reconsider the appropriateness of putting solar panels on such buildings
>> not knowing what the restrictions are? And again, we're not the land owners or representing the land. >> Other questions from the members of the board. Let's see if we can get at least hold that question off on the side for a
moment in terms of how that would impact your decision if you had known hypothetically that there were um hazardous materials being stored in those units. But we don't know that that's the case and we don't know what's not the case. So certain how to address it. >> I guess I would say we have fire sign
off so I would assume that they would know what's in the buildings. >> I just I I really >> we did have the buildings checked out structurally. Yes. >> Yeah. >> I would have went in the buildings and everything else and I'm sure if they had seen I doubt your town allows the storing of these types of materials.
>> Yeah, we do not. >> Right. >> Okay. Well, I appreciate that view. Rich, do you want to add something to that? >> Question for you on um I guess this was in your package, but there's a letter dated June 6, 2024 addressed to Sean Keegan at Solar Landscape from uh New
Jersey Clean Energy. And you know it's the letter indicating there's a conditional acceptance into the program and um it indicates that final acceptance is conditioned on completing the solar installation and commencing commercial
operation on or before the expiration date of 20 uh December 6, 2025. Has that been extended? >> Yes. So we'll supply that letter to you. >> Would you please do you know the date? 18 months from that date we believe. We
do we we looked at that because we do a lot of these so we know what the expiration dates are. So we were just talking about that yesterday. >> Somewhere we're around June then. >> Yeah. >> Of this year. >> June of 27th. >> 20 27 18 months. 10 months. >> Okay. June of 27. So you should be fine, right?
>> Board professionals. >> Questions for Mr. Jand? >> No questions for me. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Miss, >> um, just two things that came up. One is in looking at in the question about the the other uses on the property, I guess
the the outdoor vehicles, it looks like from the survey, I guess the sheet two of their plans. There is a note because Vanveetton is interesting because it dead ends here. That circular portion is still Vanveetton, I believe, because there is an easement for access that
leads to that property or leads to that other use is on the same property, but it looks like it's fenced off. So, I I can only we can only work with what information we have from the applicant, but it appears that it's not connected to the storage use. It's connected to the industrial building next door, even
though it's on this property. There's a chainlink fence shown on the survey that surrounds that whole portion and and separates it from the self- storage building. So, I don't believe, and I could be wrong, that they're not I don't believe they're connected, but maybe they do lease it and then they have to enter the property separately, but they
appear to be separate uses. >> In your opinion, do you feel as though that's an impediment to any of the things we're considering this evening? Honestly, it makes if they are separate businesses, it makes me feel better because I I think that the self storage
and then leasing that number of spaces. It's not like one space for an RV or a boat outdoors, that's a big field of parking and trailers. And I it just the way that it's set up from an aerial that you can see and the way it's disconnected from the self- storage buildings, it appears to be to the
building to the east. >> It appears to be connected to the industrial uses. So we have but it's on the lot >> be on the same lot now. I don't I I think the separation of them makes me feel better that they're not connected because the industrial self storage is
is not really an industrial use whereas you know that warehouse or whatever manufacturing building next door is an industrial use and I would prefer the separation of those two so that this doesn't rise to a level of you know a more intense industrial use for the self storage that the solar panels are
proposed on. Um but I do think that um I do think that it leads to the other question of you know h how much is going on this property. We did hear testimony from the applicant that this additional principal use seeking the variance for itself not being permitted in the as a
the community solar not being permitted as a principal use in the zone as well as it being an additional principal use. We've heard testimony for both of those variables both of those variances. So, um I do think that it shouldn't I it in my opinion it doesn't impact because I
think the testimony we heard is that this is a passive the solar is a passive use. It's not an additional impact as far as um traffic or things like that. It's not bringing in more customers. It's not bringing in more people or things like that. But I do think that the questions related to hazardous
materials and things like that are definitely valid. I do believe that the from talking to the fire official, they they go in and regularly inspect these types of facilities. >> Yes. >> Um I do think and that brought up for me the one question or the one condition um
that I don't know if was raised that the fire official has has at least one condition in his review memo and I think one being the um the placard for the solar be put on the building and be visible. That is also a design standard for renewable energy. So I think that
needs to be complied with. I would also add a condition to make sure that the fire official signs off on or provides an additional inspection to make sure that no hazardous materials are being stored here. I believe they regularly do it at least annually do inspections. Um if that helps the board make their
decision. Um but I I would just include that as another layer of condition um that the fire official be able to to check for that. >> Mr. Chairman, >> please question. Miss Rose, >> um, is that not in the lease agreement with solar energy?
>> Which part? I'm sorry. >> I'm sorry. The fact that the building doesn't store hazardous materials. I would think you would want that in your lease agreement with the the building owner as a stipulation. No. >> Well, even if it is, it doesn't mean
it's not happening. >> Oh, I I I understand that, but I'm just concerned that that's not included in the lease that you have with the owner. But whatever. >> Well, I didn't do the lease agreement and I haven't read it. Um,
>> no, that that's okay. >> Yeah, I just want to go back to what Katherine mentioned on, you know, potential third use on the on this property. I don't think it impacts this applicant, by the way, because I think the proofs are all the same, right? But but if there is a third use on the
property, I think the land owner would have to come in here for an amended site plan if that's the case, right? And a potential additional devariance if they're going to lease out the rear of that land to the adjoining neighbor.
>> And I haven't looked at any prior approvals. I don't know. I I don't know what >> I don't think it impacts this application, by the way. I just think it's something for zoning to look into. Right. >> Yeah. And I will take a look. I'll take a peek to see if there is a prior approval within, you know, the last few decades that we can uncover because it
may include that that exactly that may been part of another site plan application that just hasn't popped up with this one, but I I'll take a look at it. >> Yeah. And Don, I assume that you um you did an Oprah request for prior resolutions. >> We did. >> And did you find anything dealing with
that? >> No. >> Okay. >> Okay. If I could add maybe a stipulation that you know if the building occupancy according to IBC is in the H use group being hazardous use group maybe that is
something um that uh would be considered you know upon approval of this application or being able to proceed further. >> Well does the condition that the fire official would perform an inspection satisfy that? I think that would be I mean specifically for that would be
equal. >> Yeah, I think so. >> Mr. Chairman, I I have a question for >> Donna. >> You know, this was like 3 years ago or more than 3 years ago. I don't remember exactly when
there was an application before us exactly in the same complex, two buildings, right? So, was that approved and and did that get installed? >> They're under construction, right?
>> In construction. >> Okay. >> Because it is the same company. >> Same company. Correct. >> Company. Yeah. >> Additional questions, professionals, board members. So, Mr. Oler, where do we stand right now?
I can review with you if there is an approval um some conditions that we discussed. Um that would include um add the solar emblem signage required by the fire marshall. Uh provide a safety manual to
the satisfaction of the township engineer and I suppose the fire marshall they'll comply and they agreed that they would comply with all agency comments and all the township reports. Um, we'll verify with PSENG that the
height of the proposed utility riser pole is sufficient for truck traffic to pass under. There's a list of four, five or so um conditions in the township engineer and township planners joint report that you
would comply with. And then one thing that is a little open is uh for discussion yet is whether you would require the applicant to screen the inverter which I think you said was 7 ft. >> Yeah. >> In height. >> And uh the fire official would perform
an inspection to ensure that there are no hazardous materials stored on the property or within the building. >> And Katherine or Bill, do you have an opinion about screening the inverter? I would like the condition if if the board agrees and the applicant agrees to
be that they as a if this is approved that as part of resolution compliance they demonstrate proposed screening to the satisfaction of the board professionals. >> Okay. Okay. >> That was the uh entire list of conditions.
So yeah, we should just um open to public and then the board can entertain a motion um to approve subject to those conditions. >> So let's open the floor to the members of the public who would like to question
or offer an opinion about this project. And seeing no members of the public present, I'm going to close that portion. And at this point, I would make a motion to approve this application with the conditions as
outlined. Do I have a second? >> Second, Mr. Chairman. >> And I'd like to have some deliberation here, some opinions, please. Um, can we start? Jim, why don't you start? >> Uh, I don't really have much to say. It's a pretty to me it's pretty
straightforward application of all the ones I've heard and I was here when you did the one year and a half ago and that went through. So I'm in favor of the application. You're not really doing more good than harm in my opinion. >> Okay, >> Mr. Ginsky.
>> Yeah, I generally I I don't have a problem with the application. I I really would like to see just if PSNG would entertain putting that underground. I mean, look, if they say no, and if they won't do it, they can't do it, that's fine, right? It is what it is. You have no control over that. But if they will
do it, I think it improves the safety on that that lot. You got active trucks coming in out. It's not that they could hit it. They could actually hit the pole, right? So, like that's the only thing. >> Look, we'll certainly ask, but uh we've been down this road before. >> I get it. You can only do what you can
do, right? But that's certainly just, you know, if >> we don't want to cause an issue. >> They could do that. That would If you would do that, I think that would be great. Otherwise, I'm in favor. >> Miss Rose. >> Yes. It's I believe it's a simple application. Um with the conditions, I would I would vote in favor.
>> Miss Blake, >> I'm sorry. Johanna, >> I'm in favor of this application. Yeah. >> Okay. And Tony, >> yeah, it seems that the public benefit outweighs I don't see any really negatives here. >> Thank you. So, who do we have all the
way at the end there? Jack, >> one question. They just solar panels. They don't give off any radiation or anything like that. No. Okay. That's all. I'm in favor. >> Mr. Vesio. >> Yeah. I'm in favor of this application. I think it's a great use of empty roof
space especially in a in a manufacturing area. Uh I just had kind of my risk hat on here and just trying to understand that there's a little bit of hazard with solar panels. Doesn't mean you know we don't do it. Uh but just want to make sure it's done safely. That's all. Thank you, >> Mr. Franco. Um I think it's inherently
beneficial and I'm in favor of >> Mr. Fresco. >> Yeah, I echo the other board members. I support it. >> Does that mean? >> Yeah, I approve it. >> Very well. There's a motion to approve the application with the conditions as
outlined by Mr. Oler. Um we have a second on that. And did we have a second? I can't remember. >> We have a second. And then we would like to have a roll call vote, please. >> Mr. Gi, >> yes. >> Miss Henderson Rose, >> yes. >> Mr. Fresco,
>> yes. >> Mr. Franco, >> yes. >> Miss Amin, >> yes. >> Mr. Wedelli, >> yes. >> Chairman Kulak, >> yes. >> Thank you so much. Have a good night. >> Congratulations. Thank you. We're going to take a 10-minute break
and we'll resume at the end of that 10 minutes. And we're going to ask for a roll call, please. Miss Armad, I know it's double duty, but would you lead us through a roll call? >> A reminder. >> Chairman Kulak >> here.
>> Mr. Mr. Widelli >> here. >> Min >> here. >> Mr. Franco >> here. >> Resco >> here. Henderson Rose. >> Mr. Gi >> here. >> Wiseman >> here. >> Mr. Vasio >> here.
>> Mr. Kuchi >> here. >> Mr. Bandela >> here. >> Mr. Oler >> here. >> And Mr. Klein >> here. >> And Miss Armad here. >> Very well. Thank you. Um, this is the second hearing this evening. This is
application 24-029 ZB Rockland APV, Bridgewater Energy LLC, block 338, lot 9, 760 East Main Street. And um, we will open up with Mr. Pantel.
>> Good evening. Uh, pleasure to be before the board again. Uh you're correct. This is obviously our our second meeting and uh to I'd like to let the board know where we intend to go this evening with testimony. Uh we do >> I'm just having a little trouble hearing. I want to make sure that mic is
on. Is that light lit? >> It is on. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Good. Thank you. So I do want to let the board know initially what we intend to do tonight with respect to our testimony. Uh we did actually receive from your engineer on Friday, this past
Friday the 10th, his uh April 9th uh engineering report which uh did raise a number of technical engineering issues which our engineer Mr. Styers will be addressing and will be presenting in testimony but not this evening. >> Okay. >> Okay. I think it makes more sense to let
him work through those issues in the interest of efficiency and perhaps confer obviously with Mr. Klein who provided that report to work out as much as they possibly can. So in lie of pro proceeding with testimony from Mr. Styers u by the way whose plan is upon
the board that was exhibit A3 just to orient the board from our last from our last meeting. Uh we will proceed with testimony with a little bit of wrap-up testimony from Joe Brown who was the last witness uh at our first meeting who had been testifying Ruth as the
representative of Trina Solar which is installing and will be operating and maintaining uh this the system that we have here. Uh he you he already provided extensive testimony with respect to installation, operation, maintenance of the facility and of course how the best
is an integral part of the grid's uh storage and utilization of solar generated power including somewhat coincidentally the sort of power that of course could be generated into the system from the application that was just approved by the board because that
was apparently here before this board because it wasn't an accessory use. are going to be generating solar power into the grid, if you will. >> Right. >> Um, and we also have with us this evening, uh, Leonard Deionarin, uh, who is our fire safety expert. Uh, we heard
from you indeed personally, Mr. Chairman, at the last meeting. How safety is obviously a question that the board has would like to have addressed. And Mr. Dion is here to testify. Uh, in that respect, he has prepared the emergency response plan. He was in prior
contact with fire officials in Bridgewater as well as in Somerville and also prepared a report that responded to uh some issues that had been raised as a result of an incident that occurred in Arizona some seven years ago. Uh and we
produced a very specific report responding to what transpired there. Uh essentially without I think stealing Mr. Diana's thunder pointing out how our current application uh is kind of a textbook case of fixing and imple issues
that had arisen at Arizona situation and very importantly implementing the recommendations that had arisen as a result of that Arizona incident. So that's all I'll say about that because I'm safety raised two issues. One has to do with that original inquiry about that
fire in Arizona that took place some time ago, >> right? >> But you can do a a search anytime and find fires as recently as December of 2025 in lithium battery and energy storage facilities. Some of which um
quite frankly just are mind-boggling to to watch. So, it's not only that one particular fire that I hope he addresses, but looking at the industry as it's matured and still suffering from some of the um early technology perhaps.
I don't know, but I'm sure he'll have an opinion about that. >> Yeah, he clearly will address that. >> Right. The other thing that you you raised though, and it's it's a concern that I have and I think the board has as well. You mentioned that uh you had met with the fire official from Somerville
and from Bridgewater and yet that meeting uh did not take place be with any participation from any member of this board or its professionals. So, we're relying on the original report that we received from the Somerville fire official and the amended report of
the Bridgewater Fire official because I don't know how to erase something that we had no knowledge of with respect to the conversation that supposedly took place between the Somerville fire official and representatives of your
company or whomever it was that was part of that meeting. So, I'm not sure what to do with that. As a and as a legal matter, I'd ask Mr. roller to opine as well. >> Uh yeah. Well, let me explain. The genesis of that meeting was that in connection with the submission of this
application to Bridgewater, reports were rendered by Bridgewater fire official as well as a summer fire Somerville fire official. So, in order to attempt to resolve some of the issues and explain better the nature of the application, we felt it was appropriate to meet with
them. uh not I wasn't at the meeting, wasn't a lawyer's meeting. It was just our consultants met with them to address those reports. We're not asking the board to accept the outcomes of a meeting. We're obviously the reports speak for themselves that we've received
from Bridgewater and uh Mr. Dianarin was is certainly prepared to uh respond and address the reports that we did receive. It's not uncommon for professionals, engineers for that matter to confer about reports that they receive in advance of a meeting. And that's all
that it was. It wasn't uh >> see we had no representative of this board present at that meeting. And none of our professionals were present. >> And when you say representative of the board, you mean a board professional, >> correct? A board member would not
>> No, a board member would not be there. But a board professional, right? So that that really did concern me and I know that um trying to accept the outcome of a meeting that we're not privy to just is asking for uh for us to
make decisions on information that we we can't possibly have any record of. So >> as I said we're not asking you to make a decision based upon the discussions that were had with the various fire officials. But what I think would be useful is to hear from Mr. Diana to hear
what we are proposing in response to the reports that we have received. We you thereafter did receive a report from the Somerville fire official essentially signing off on the application. There's a there's a subsequent report from the Bridgewater Fire official which still
has raised some issues that Mr. Dion will respond to. So, >> it concerns me that a fire official would change their opinion based on on testimony or conversations that we had no representative that was privy to. So, I don't know what took place in that
meeting and it makes me wonder what took place during that meeting and I think it's wholly inappropriate for that meeting to have taken place the way in which it did. And it brings into question without trying to impugn anyone's integrity the integrity of the process because that just was not an
acceptable meeting. >> Um as I said before I don't think it's in improper for an applicant's professionals to meet with or have discussions with uh reviewers from a board in advance of appearing before the
board. They were reviewers who had submitted reports from both Somerville and Bridgewater. We met with them and we're not asking the board. There was no formal resolution or anything close to that coming out of the meeting. Was a meeting of people who had from the fire departments who presumably have some
expertise. Wanted to hear from our our people with respect to explanation. And we're prepared to present to you on his face uh testimony from our expert and ask that you consider that testimony. uh and as well as the reports that he
submitted. He submitted a very detailed emergency response plan which was asked for in the reports >> and a very detailed report from Jensen Hughes his Mr. Deanna's company addressing that Arizona situation because you'll recall at one point
shortly before a meeting that had been scheduled we were provided with a report from Underwriter Laboratories uh regarding specifically that Arizona situation and we actually deferred the hearing uh as a result so that we could
take that report under advisement prepare an appropriate response which we have in fact submitted to you. So I think it's all totally obviously 100% above board number one and number two uh we obviously will rely on the testim for
the board's purposes of the board's decision rely on the testimony that we'll be providing number one and number two the reports that have been issued. So, will you be providing testimony that would indicate to the board or andor its
professionals as to why the Somerville fire official would have changed his mind about his report given the discussion that took place outside of the purview of the board? >> Um, of course, we can certainly have Mr.
Ghana uh explained this what transpired at that meeting. But to suggest the meeting's outside the purview of the board, it kind of goes without saying when professionals confer in advance of a zoning board or planning board meeting as with an applicant's professionals as they often do or with not
>> or professionals do not confer though. >> Well, I I don't I don't know that that's the case. >> It is. Well, you're um it's I can tell you that I've been practicing land use for uh more years
than I care to admit. Look at my gray hair. >> It's fair enough. >> Well over 40 years. And uh I'm sure Mr. Aller in his experience has seen any number of situations where uh applica after reports are received from a board's professionals or from boards
others commenting on behalf of the board such as a fire official or environmental commission or whatever it happen might happen to be that there is some discussion. We didn't force anybody to go to the meeting. uh we didn't view it out of the ordinary and we thought it
would be a constructive exercise to have that sort of constructive dialogue in advance of the meeting. That's all that we did. >> So, and it certainly weren't purporting to suggest that there would be discussions with any board members. Obviously, no one is suggesting that. No, >> we haven't. >> It's not unusual that engineers would
confer about reports outside of this meeting. I think the concern is that Bridgewater wasn't involved at the same time at an in-person meeting, not something that just happened on a telephone or Zoom call or
even a Zoom call we could have been, you know, involved in. So, I guess if Mr. Dehonory was at the meeting. When he comes up to testify, he can tell us in detail who was at the meeting and the
topics of conversation and what happened at that meeting. >> Sure. Of course. And the whole purpose of the meeting was to explain better what was submitted because obviously the application, the bare bones application didn't address in the level of detail
that has since developed in the emergency response plan. and the other reports that we had. So again, it was the only purpose was to have some uh constructive uh dialogue. >> Yes, of course. >> I've had I couldn't even begin to count
the number of D variance and site plan applications that I've had over the years. uh battery energy storage system. I say this is probably my first battery energy storage uh application, but legally it's not distinguishable from any number of
other site plan and variance applications heard by zoning boards and planning boards. >> I appreciate that. >> Sure. Of course, understood. And that's why we're here with uh the expert witness that we will be profering testimony from tonight to address in
detail uh the fire safety issue that's been alluded to. Uh we we realize it's out there and it's incumbent upon us to address it. We certainly intend to do that. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Anything else, Mr. Oler, that we should address on that line? >> We can move forward. >> We can definitely move forward. So, you
were going to ask Mr. Brown to come back and continue uh his testimony. I think we're at the point at which we're going to ask our board professionals to ask questions of him. >> Yes. And there was just the end of last meeting, you might recall, I had just asked him a question about the
comparability of what we are proposing on the one hand as opposed to what would be proposed by a governmental authority or public utility if they were developing a best system. And that's when we concluded the meeting. He didn't really have a response to chance to respond to that.
>> So did you want him then to continue answering your question? >> There'll be just some very brief wrap-up of the direct as of just a hand of just a few points to make and then we certainly would more than welcome questions from the board and from your
professionals Mr. Brown. >> Thank you. >> And if anyone's from the public, but doesn't look like we have anybody from the public here. Great. Fair enough. Okay. Thank you. You have to swear in me again. >> Yeah, but I'll do Mr. Brown, would you raise your right
hand, please? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help your God. >> I do. >> And again, for the record, your full name, please. >> Uh, Joseph John Brown, a resident, longtime resident of Warren. Um, I know I reviewed last time, but
just a quick overview of credentials. I've been in the power industry for 28 years. Worked for three different utilities, Duke Energy, PSENG, and Khan Edison during that time. And now I'm on the sales side, all always in power industry. Great. Thank you. Uh so as you
just heard could you address please uh the comparability of the construction operation and maintenance of our proposed best system with what might be proposed on the other hand by uh a governmental or public utility
>> and just foundationally have you installed those similar facilities for a government entity or public utility? >> Yes. the same battery energy storage system we're looking at this evening. >> That's correct. >> Okay. >> Municipality. So, still a government
entity. >> Sorry. >> A municipality which is >> but not a public utility. >> A municipality is a public utility for that. >> The municipality is the public utility. Are they regulated by the board of public utilities? >> That's correct. >> And can you share with us the municipality in question?
>> Uh Mweek, the municipality of Massachusetts. >> Okay. uh MMWC um is the most recent one that we did for that. >> Okay. >> The rest of them have mostly been private. >> Okay. Please continue. >> Um so good evening everyone. Um the
installation, construction, operations and maintenance of this facility would be the exact same as any government entity, any utility similar to what PSCG, Duke Energy or Con Edison would do. there's no variance on how any
of those things would be operated by Trina or its service companies in order to do that. >> Okay. Um couple of other notes that were leftovers from the last time I gave testimony where I think we ran out of time on questions. Um there is
additional benefit uh for the battery energy storage system apart from lowering electric costs for the consumers, minimizing power outages. The fact that this is actually being funded by private equity means it will not go into a rate base and will not cost any
of the end users any additional funding from that utility such as PSG in this case. >> I'm going to have to explain that a little better for me because I'm having trouble following you. >> Okay. If PSEG was to own the property
and the site itself, it would go uh apply for a ratebased increase to the end users, meaning the community and the residents in order to get them to pay for the capital expense to install and start off the plant, the battery energy
storage plant. So in other words, is the case when a public utility expends significant capital as would be involved in this installation that goes into their capital rate base which in turn justifies their going to the BPU for instance to increase their rates to get
an appropriate return on their invested capital. >> Correct. >> Is that correct? And what as opposed to what we have here which is what >> so in this case all the capital funding is coming from a private equity who is spending that money and hoping to be able to get a return over the course of
7 10 15 20 years on their investment while at the same time that return will be providing additional benefit to the residents. So you're suggesting though that they would not sell the power that they acquire for little to no cost at the
highest rate possible. >> Uh no, they will the way that the grid works here is they will put into the auction and the utility PSCG will set that price and if that price uh can be met then the system will go into operation.
So they do not dictate the price. The price will be dictated by the public utility uh which is regulated. So >> they So they can't lower >> jack it up to Yeah. >> They can't lower it to save us money. >> Correct. >> But they can refuse to accept the price, right?
>> Yes. But in this case, because it's not a generator of power, it's going to charge when the price is very low. Sure. usually in the middle of the day or in the middle of the night when solar systems such as the previous um will be operating and generating power that is
not needed. It will charge at a low price and then it will discharge when everyone gets home and cranks their air conditioning on and the demand is very high and there is no solar being generated at that point. So that variance from when they charge to when they discharge is how the capital
private equity will make its money. As a side benefit, the residents will gain the benefit of not needing to send that power in from a far distance away uh from a power plant in Pennsylvania or down the shore because that generation
was stored locally from the solar and then will be discharged. So because of that that rate that PSEG sets that the customers will pay will be lowered as a result of the batteries. >> Well, I'm not certain I follow the lowering as a result of the batteries. I
understood everything you said up until that point because I also understand that the way in which the grid functions and the way in which prices are controlled as you alluded to. Um we're in a situation where the private equity company benefits from selling at a
higher price than they acquire the energy. That's just simple math. >> Yes. >> And as such they and they can't lower nor can they raise the price other than that which the auction had dictated. >> Correct. >> Correct. So where I lost you was when you're talking about power to the local
grid because the grid is the grid. I don't think you can control whether the power goes locally or not. >> No, but the local nodes, the local area where the power is is going to be set based on what power is available in that area or if it has to be sent from a
distance. So let's say it's a very hot day in Bridgewater in the evening and there's a very high demand. Everyone's cranking their air conditioning. There's not enough power in this region, which happens during the summer every day. Power has to be sent in from Pennsylvania from a coal plant or a gas
plant or whatever. And whatever the cost of that power is, which is usually higher than the price of the batteries charge and discharge, it also needs to be sent hundreds of miles over wires which have losses. Because the batteries are local without those losses, separate
from being able to charge low um low price and discharge at the higher price. It means that that rate that the consumer is going to pay that PSEG sets will be lower because there is a local source that can provide that power without those losses coming in from hundreds of miles away.
>> And my understanding was that the way in which the grid functions is that it's incidental. It's blind to where the power comes from. >> Uh if there's a generation source local, it will drive that price down from the utility when it sets it.
The utility looks at all the generation in the area and they determine what the price should be for that and anyone that wants to can take it. Anyone that doesn't want to does not take it. The batteries will always take it because they charge low and then they discharge during those peaks.
you. So, regarding the that statement that it's reducing costs, do you have any statistics from prior installation that shows energy costs dropping for consumers after one of these installations went in? >> Generally speaking, uh, a battery system
will be able to provide power at about 25% the cost of what it is usually generated from from a power plant, not local. So, I can't say a general statement, but because we know there aren't many power plants in New Jersey
during the summer that can meet the demand, that 25% will hold fairly true because those batteries are charging when that price is fairly almost zero. And then they'll discharge um and provide power locally without
those losses, offsetting that high rate from a gas plant out in Pennsylvania. >> Right. But you you you can't You can't reference say look the utility rate in neighborhood X went from 13
cents a kilowatt an hour down to 12 because we installed this battery. >> No, I can't give the specific for each neighborhood only that the batteries will provide that power for a significant price lower. >> Right? So if you're not buying the power
when it's low, then the consumers are using that power when it's low. So if you're buying 20 kilo megawatts of power, >> you're essentially using capacity and you're raising the the the cost,
you're raising the the cost of that power. >> No. So >> the higher demand of power, >> you won't charge unless the price is very low. If if the price is very low, the consumers will use it first. And if the there's excess power, that's going to drive the price down. And when that
price is down, that's when the decision is made, charge the batteries. Now, if the price stays high, we won't charge the batteries and it won't affect consumers at all. It only offsets the high demand peak in the evening from the low demand peak during the middle of the
day. So the the battery in order for it to charge more for consumers, the battery would have to do the opposite and charge when the price is high and discharge when it's low. The batteries cannot hurt the consumer electric rates because by its very function, it will
only charge when there's excess power and only discharge when there is more power needed than can currently be provided. >> Okay? So at the low rate when it's off peak and you're buying that power to charge your batteries. >> Mhm. >> You're not you're saying you're not
increasing the power cost now at the low rate because now there's more demand. >> That's right. Because because there's excess power they don't know what to do with. A lot of times that price is zero or even some cases negative and you're getting paid to charge the batteries. >> Are they throwing that power into the ground when there when there's excess
capacity? >> Say that again. >> Are they throwing that power into the ground? Let's say when there's excess capacity, >> uh they're trying to send it somewhere else because it's not needed here in New Jersey. So in most case it gets wasted. >> Okay, understand. Now >> that's the whole point of the batteries
is to avoid wasting the energy that's already been generated. >> Okay. So why are utility companies not installing batteries then? If it's if it sounds like, you know, hey, we can balance the loads and add more capacity, why are they not installing batteries? >> Uh because they're expensive.
You can you can do it cheaper than any public utility >> pretty much. >> Uh no. So uh in the case of PSEG, >> the utility is not allowed to own batteries themselves because it would be a monopoly. So the state of New Jersey has opened it up to private equity to
come in so that it's not a monopoly and they provide a competitive bidding process in order to do that. for the answer of why everyone doesn't do batteries. Um, batteries have quadrupled in demand every year for the last 5
years. So, everyone is starting to do more and more batteries because of the benefits that they provide. In some cases, you just can't make the batteries fast enough in order to meet the supply currently. And you were saying too that uh some of
these batteries um are associated with solar farms. >> Yes. Yes. Uh originally there was a tax incentive that was only authorized for the batteries to get that tax incentive if it was paired with a solar farm. Um
that changed uh several years ago where batteries were allowed to get a government tax incentive federally um if they are a standalone in a node that demands it. that is not near solar. And that drove a lot of these battery projects to areas that have higher
demands which are not in areas where there are very very large solar fields. >> Please continue. >> Uh some other questions that we had uh were um technicians and response time. Um, we have uh 30 minute time spot that
we're going to allow from any incident that occurs that we'll have a local technician be able to arrive on site. Um, before I mentioned it was a little longer, but the owner of the plant has agreed to subcontract local, so that would be 30 minutes.
Um, the plant is operated by HVAC to be able to go all the way down to -22 degrees or all the way up to 130 degrees Fahrenheit. If the temperature is beyond that, there is still no safety risk, but the batteries will not operate just because the HVAC cannot keep the
batteries warm enough or cool enough during that operation. >> And I believe that testimony that you just gave is consistent with your prior testimony, but there you were testifying in Celsius. >> Yes. So we translated to Fahrenheit >> and we appreciate the >> accomodation that
>> um there was another question about the life expectancy. Um these systems are guaranteed to last 20 years but many systems uh are expected to go 25 plus the guarantee is set at 20 and that's what this system is expected to operate.
>> The guarantee is by the manufacturer. >> That's correct. And >> uh when the end of that lifespan occurs, the decommissioning process would look something like all everything would power down. All electrical connections uh would be disconnected and then all
the recycle all the battery parts would be recycled for beneficial use. They have uh some high value and the rest of the products that's left over would all be scrapped um for scrap metal. There's um really nothing that would be left on the site after that. So, but on that point, I noticed that
the lease that was provided is a 30-year term, right? So, what would happen at year 20? >> Uh, the batteries can no longer be guaranteed, but they will still be able to be operated. And the guarantee is not a safety guarantee. It's a performance guarantee. So, the batteries are still
guaranteed to be safe, but they're not guaranteed to have the same amount of energy, just like your flashlight won't work the same now as when you bought it 5 years ago, uh, when it was brand new from that battery. Is it still economical? >> Uh, it is depending on what the market
is, how much the batteries have been used and they've degraded and in some cases if there's a better technological answer to replace it. >> Would you expect that in 20 years? >> Uh, I I can tell you in 10 years that the battery technology has advanced to
the point where it is significantly better and um the answer is yes. I I would expect that in 20 years the technology would be better and we probably would not keep the system in but that that would be up to the decision of how long it's been used up to that point and the owner of the
plant. >> Right. Yeah. And by the way under the lease which has an initial term of 30 years it also has a renewal option for additional 5 years. Um there is some space on the site for expansion that is not currently intended
to be utilized but if future uh technology is deemed to replace or whatever that could be utilized but right now there is no uh current plans to expand the unit beyond it >> and we would of course have to return to the zoning board if there were to be any proposed expansion but I can tell you
that none is envisioned now. And the very last thing I'll go over is just to reiterate that um Trina Storage, my company, the same company that's making these batteries, um has about 250 sites worldwide that are operating. It has had zero fires or battery incidents.
I'll also expand a little bit about a previous comment um with fires that are still occurring today. I would say that the majority of those fires that are occurring today are not new installs, but still from previous designs where there are significant difference. Um,
specifically the chemistry that's used was much more volatile. Not to get into a big thing, but it was called nickel magnesium cobalt. Almost all battery systems that were installed from 10 years ago to about five years ago used that technology which was much more
volatile but it was more energy dense and that's why it was used. There's been a shift in the whole industry to go to LFP lithium iron phosphate which is much much less volatile and has had significantly less incidents than those previous chemistry um that were used for
those which are still unfortunately receiving incidents today on those older systems. Aside from the the chemistry being different and the the newer technology being available, the newer technology has not been installed for as long a period of time as has the older
technology. So, we're having trouble >> envisioning a safety record that's two years old versus one that's 15 years old or five years old. It's it's not an applesto apples comparison. >> Understand? And that's where from a
safety perspective, we have to be um hypervigilant given the site selection that you're presenting us with. >> Yeah. And uh my colleague will go over some of the other things as far as the safety systems that have been improved on those the training. Um he would be
better to go over that. But from the technology standpoint, we can measure the level of volatility from previous and the level that we use now. and it is substantially less um much safer just from a numbers perspective.
>> Right. >> Um and that's it for the recap unless there are future questions before we hand it over to my colleague. >> No, what I'd like to do is ask if there if the board members have any questions of you, Mr. Brown, at this point and then our professionals have questions I'm certain that they would like to ask
as well if that's okay with you. >> Any board members questions? >> I have one question. Uh please I listened to the testimony as I was out at the February 10th meeting. Um so part of this project is being you receive a grant or you receive um sort of subsidy
for for installing these battery power. >> Yes. A federal uh incentive. >> Okay. Is there any by America requirement as part of those federal incentives? Because I know these batteries say were made in China, Thailand, and Indonesia, right?
>> Yes. Um so currently um unfortunately the political landscape changes quite frequently. Currently there is a buy America clause for that incentive or I should say a uh non-Chinese supply for that incentive. That's a better way
of saying >> and all of your products are still made in China. >> Uh we have China uh Indonesia and Thailand. >> Indonesia Thailand. Gotcha. >> So how do you no by American clause a non-China clause? >> Okay. and and and you will be and that's
kind of you'll be procuring from other countries. >> Yes. Well, we we have we have all those options on the table if if the owner wants to buy uh Chinese supply and not get the incentive that is an option or what's more likely is by a non-China
supply to go for that incentive. And if that by America clause were to change, I'm not sure if you're grandfathered in um and actually you would have to have batteries produced in this country. Would your operation be feas uh viable? >> Um with the supply currently in the
United States that's available, it would be very difficult for about 80% of the projects to move forward if that was required. >> Not to say they can't go forward, but they wouldn't have that 30% tax incentive. What's the typical cost of constructing
one of these? >> Um, so the price of this project would be somewhere around maybe 1012 million for the equipment. The construction piece would be maybe $2 or $3 million, I'm guessing. Um, and then
the operation and maintenance would be extremely low because there's very little that needs to be done. I have a question regarding the operation like uh you will be operating from remote and uh will there be anyone visiting the
site every so often? How often would they go? Yeah. So, the site will be operated out of um a US company that manages the uh software to run that out of North Carolina. And the only people that will be visiting site are
maintenance personnel to check both the air conditioning and the batteries for safety checks and performance checks and those um visitations would occur on a quarterly basis. >> The next question I have is the would be
visiting uh system it uh gets electricity in to do the charging and when uh public service needs electricity it sends it back. So is
there a a difference to give the income to operate the system and all that? I mean when you send it back you get a higher rate or you get a little bit higher rate so that you can operate the system and do all the expenses. Yes, in the summer it would run all the
time, like on a daily basis. In the winter, most days it would run. In the spring and the fall, the variation in the price peaks aren't large enough because the air conditioning isn't used that much. And there there isn't much. So, it it wouldn't necessarily be
operating every day. >> You mentioned the maintenance. How many maintenance personnel would be visiting quarterly for for how long would they be there? system uh owned by public service or will that be owned by some uh some other company?
>> Some other company. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Public uh PSENG is currently not allowed to own them um because it would be a monopoly tying into their grid and a conflict of interest. >> Okay. >> Um to answer your question, it' be about
two or three people that would be there for one to two weeks on a quarterly basis. >> I got a question. Excuse me. The last time you were here, I asked you how you communicate between the site and North Carolina. What
>> kind of a communications that is in case there's >> it >> a storm, there's a give me an answer. >> It is internet. It was last time. Yeah, I had to go check. It is the internet. If the internet goes down, we simply just will not operate the site when it's there. >> Site will shut,
>> right? The site cannot operate without a connection to the North Carolina company. >> I feel better now. >> Board professionals. >> Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Wy. >> Um, since you have these, I guess air conditionings and all this equipment running and everything, how far away
will people be able to hear this operation noise? So, it's tough to answer that question from how far away, but I can I do have numbers to give. So, uh if you were right up against the machine when
it was operating at full capacity on a very hot day, the HVAC system would be about 75 dB. To compare, a lawn mower runs at about 105 dB. I understand with this plant uh or with this specific site, there will be trees that will be
placed around the perimeter um from the east side. Um that will dampen some of that sound. And then every distance further you go away, so at 200 ft, that 75, just like a lawn mower that's further away, will sound significantly
less. So, it's hard for me to say at what distance that sound would be, but I do know 75 dB is what it'll be if you're right in front of it. And there will be some sound dampening landscaping occurring. And any every bit further you're away, the quieter it'll sound,
>> right? And I can also stipulate, if I could, that we will certainly be in compliance. The township and the DP have noise performance standards which are noise regulations which are performance standards. So all businesses whether or not they're even before ever before a
planning board or zoning board have to comply with your applicable Bridgewater Township and D noise regulations and we will be in compliance with those. I can also mention that the site the PSCG substation across the street has
some very large transformers much larger than what we would have and this would be quieter than those because of the size difference. >> Okay. Because I know like at 2 in the morning when it's very still no wind and very still air I mean >> you hear a lot more than
>> Yeah. We will comply with the standard but maybe more importantly we will be quieter than what's across the street. >> Public service. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me just ask you though, that's it's 75 times each cell or 75 to >> uh 75 is the loudest it could get
>> per unit. >> Yes. Per PCS. The inverters, the batteries are a little quieter. The inverters are about 75. And there would be five of those. >> 75. It's five. >> Five things that are generating 75 dBA. Mhm.
>> Board professional. So, Miss Sarmad, Jason, do you have a preference as to who would go first? >> If you don't mind, just because I have the microphone. >> Fair enough. You have the microphone. >> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I did have questions when Mr. Seeker provided his
testimony that I believe were deferred to you. So, hopefully um we can answer some of those questions. >> Um, first and foremost, what percentage of the existing New Jersey grid is is made up of renewable energy sources? H
um I'm I can't give an exact answer, but in my experience with PSEG and just knowing the market, I would say that right now New Jersey um has less than 5% renewable currently. They have goals and incentives to try and increase that
drastically. But because there has been no local incentive to try and provide tax benefits for people to bring that here, a lot of those renewable sites uh occurred outside New Jersey and then send the power in. >> I believe New Jersey did have a SRC program for a while. That was an
incentive program. Um but I was just asking the question as it relates to um kind of the questions of where the the energy is where the batteries are getting their energy from because we've heard a lot about that these batteries will be charged when the grid is mostly
renewable energy. And my question really is if the if the if the grid is made of 5% renewable energy that means 95% is not renewable right overwhelming majority of it is is nonrenewable energy. >> Yes. So on what basis are these
batteries being charged with renewable energy? >> So New Jersey is 5% or less. But New Jersey does not provide the majority of its power to its consumers. It is all imported in from other locations and in
those cases mostly it's cheaper in Pennsylvania or in Delaware or other locations that send it and sometimes in some cases even further than that. So the excess power and I'll give an example um of Pennsylvania. I don't know necessarily the solar but there's an
extensive amount of wind in Pennsylvania and that wind does not generate at the time you want it to. It generates whenever the wind blows and that is excess power that is not needed that has nowhere to go necessarily except to be
wasted. Um and Pennsylvania has a lot of wind a significant amount of solar but I'm not sure how much. I can't speak to New York, but I can say that that 5% that I'm speaking about in New Jersey is very small to your point, but a large portion of New Jerseyy's power demand
gets supplied outside of New Jersey. >> And you don't have that percentage? >> Uh, no, I don't. >> In terms of though, are you able to provide some estimate as to the power that is going into the grids during off peak demand, say at noon time when we're
taking power in? believe you had previously testified about that. >> Yes. >> Could you comment on that, please? >> Yeah. So, I can mention on a very on a very hot day where the sun is shining, there aren't clouds in the sky, and everyone's going to be running their air conditioning, there's a very large
portion of the energy that's being generated at noon, up to 50% would be renewable at that point. and at the evening of say six o'clock that number might drop down to 10 because the solar is gone and the wind would be a fairly
smaller portion. So although I don't know the percentages for the entire state or the adjacent ones during that midday bright sunny day it's a very large portion that goes renewable that
all falls off by six o'clock. And and in the New Jersey Energy Master Plan, they talk a lot about energy, the composition of the grid of generation as and as well as, you know, storage. And on a challenging, what they call a challenging winter week, the energy is
not, you know, sun. That's that's not all the time. So, how is there a guarantee that these batteries will always be charged at times when the when the grid is renewable? Well, >> yeah. If if if there's not a large gap from the low price to the high price,
then the batteries will not charge or discharge. They'll remain dormant unless it makes sense. And that absence of a gap means that there is not a sharp discrepancy between excess energy being
wasted and needed from noon to 6. So I would say the batteries aren't going to be used in those cases when in let's say in the winter on a cloudy day where there is no sun then there might not be allowed renewable but the batteries just simply won't operate then because there was no excess energy to charge them at
that low rate. They'll only operate when it's beneficial from an economic benefit and for a demand benefit for the end user. >> The batteries don't care if the energy is renewable. They just care if the energy is cheap. >> That's right. And is there any guarantee that the energy that New Jersey imports
from other states is renewable? >> No. >> Is there any idea that that imported energy isn't from a coal plant? >> There is not. But there's a direct correlation with excess renewables and the cost of electricity. >> Understood. Now, um, if this battery facility was connected to a wind farm or
solar or, you know, a ground mounted solar farm, how much of that energy would be renewable? uh it would still have the ability to charge from the grid or from the the wind or solar farm. So it would be no different >> if it was connected to a solar to a solar farm. >> If it was if it was storing energy from
a solar farm, would that energy be 100% renewable? >> No. So the solar the way it works when you have a coll-located site is the solar is going to generate and if there is demand for the electricity it will send it out to the grid. If there is excess uh energy and no demand at that
point it will charge to the batteries 100%. >> So are the batteries being charged by only renewable energy in that case? >> In the case of excess energy and low demand, yes, the
batteries would be charged 100% by that renewable source in that case. But whenever that price is high enough, the solar will discharge direct to the grid and the batteries won't operate. >> That wasn't my question. My question was, are they charging by only renewable energy?
>> No, they can charge from the grid or from the solar plant or the wind. They don't care where it's coming from. Even if it's at that >> battery would too, >> correct? >> Would it ever it would charge from It wouldn't just charge from excess solar.
Maybe I don't understand your question. So >> I was asking because I had asked the question previously. There's a solar location about a thousand feet away from this site. And the answer was that's a competitor. That's why we don't have a battery facility being proposed directly to a solar farm essentially. And my
question is wouldn't that be as we heard a question about why doesn't PSEG install a battery facility? Why wouldn't a solar right at the source basically take in excess energy from the solar that can't be utilized that can't be sent back to the grid? Why wouldn't they
save and reserve excess energy within a battery? >> So the battery can do that. The reason why that many times that doesn't make practical sense is because the highest demand areas for electricity do not allow for a large field of solar panels. And that's why batteries are more needed
in areas where you can't put windmills or large field of solar batteries. >> Okay. Um the New Jersey Energy Master Plan has a battery storage target by 2030 of 2 gawatt. Y
>> what does this um facility's um total you know energy storage sess generation or potential generation represent as a percent of that >> 20 megawws uh out of the two gigawatts so that would be 1% is it um
are you speaking in uh gigawatts or gigawatt hours >> gigawatts >> okay yeah so it would be 1% 20 megawatts is 1% >> so so in order to achieve the 23 30 goal 100 facility of these facilities would be built. Do you know what the status of
that target is in the state? >> Oh no, I don't because the incentive has not been strong enough for batteries until recently. So I know there's a very low percentage of operating sites in New Jersey because the incentive hasn't been strong enough until recent.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um you'd mentioned that um the lifespan of of this facility is or the guarantee is 20 years. The lease is 30 years. Are you have any Trina storage facilities, battery storage facilities been decommissioned to date?
>> No. >> They've all continued to start up and continue to operate. There's been no need for de >> That's correct. >> Thank you. Um the you'd mentioned that kind kind of the whole decommissioning plan what that looks like. I think at the last meeting when you'd brought the prototype out and
showed that there's kind of these batteries within a larger battery pack, right? That there's kind of modules within and that if they are damaged or needed to be changed that they can be changed out individually, right? Yep. >> How are those lithium phosphate batteries recycled on an individual basis? Oh, so yeah, we have a company
that we send those to and they extract whatever materials they can out of it, but I can't speak to the details of how they extract it. >> Okay. So, they're recycle at a special specialized facility. >> Um, and in kind of in line with that question because you you'd mentioned that the technology has changed, specifically the chemistry has changed
from these batteries. Are there any other emerging technologies or other alternatives to lithium lithium phosphate that are maybe better but more expensive? >> There are many alternatives. I would say there are none that are currently at
scale capable of providing large um scale battery projects and yes of course the expense is significantly higher >> scale because of demand or supply and demand or scale because of cost >> manufacturing capabilities currently in existence.
>> Understood. Thank you. Um I think I think I don't remember if you had provided testimony about the fire testing that was conducted and you know the temperatures that raised one of these two. >> Are you aware? I wasn't able to find anything about if there were certain
controls or multiple um kind of an experimentation or a scientific method if there were controls for that or if it was just undertaken on brand new batteries um at a certain temperature. Were there batteries that were subjected to extreme cold, extreme heat damage, um
you know, puncture, anything that that would have added a variable? Were any was anything added? >> So, I'll answer in two two questions. So, all those um issues that could happen to batteries are tested at our facility and by UL, a third party as
well. Specific to the large scale fire test, we put uh brand new batteries in there because they would have the most energy and generate the most heat and be the most volatile so that we could see what the worst case scenario is. And we
turned off all the safety systems, again, looking for the worst case scenario, and put heaters in to force that whole container into a thermal runway incident to catch it on fire. And then we put containers next to it like they would be in the same spacing um at
this site or any of our other sites. And the container that's only 4 in away, which is the closest spacing that we have, um did not receive any damage. Uh in fact, the inside of the container that was going thermal runaway, got to a
temperature of 2351° inside the container. the container next to it um just to measure what impact it has never went over 111 degrees Fahrenheit. So the barriers in the container itself
uh with all the safety systems turned off proved there's no propagation and the method for that test is not something we came up with. there's a standard for it um that is run in order to what process you use what heaters
where you put it and everything and that was followed and I think publicly displayed on video and then we have reports that we can submit as well >> and that was one time >> yes >> and it was not repeated >> correct >> and to answer my question none of those batteries were subjected or no variables
were added to that test no cracked batteries no damaged batteries no >> no by by process um that's not allowed in order to follow the process for a true test of what is generally accepted as good business practice. >> Okay. Thank you. Um
I know Mr. Vesio asked about federal incentives. I believe Mr. seeker had brought up that there was a PJM subsidy for for these types of facilities and I specifically remember that because I asked a question I believe it was you know re relayed as a benefit but I asked
did this does the consumer essentially pay that cost at the end is the is are the rateayers the one who pay it and he said yes and so just to your point before about the benefit of a private company building this and it not having an impact on a rateayer I think that
kind of contradicts the idea that there is some cost to the rateayer because there is a subsidy incentive um to from PJM that trickles down to the customer. >> Uh I would have to defer to Mr. Seeker on the PJM subsidy. It's not one that I'm familiar with. The tax incentive I
was referring to earlier was a federal one and because this is not owned by PSEG, um there would be no rate base applied to it. But I'm sorry I can't speak to the PJM subsidy out outside of the equipment that I design and sell.
>> Okay. Um, as far as those those peaks that you've kind of mentioned on a daily basis of when the batteries would charge, um, PSENG uh, now has programs particularly with smart thermostats um, that kind of are supposed to be one rateayer friendly. So
you air condition your house before the demand. It sets up these smart thermostats are now set that um you can you can opt into these programs and it automatically does that for you so that there isn't brown outs and blackouts and things like that. Um how does that impact um if they're going to be sharing
or they're going to be spreading out demand? How does that impact um when the batter is going to going to charge? Is that going to have an impact? >> So it does help the grid try and balance it. Um, it's not a huge percentage, but it doesn't change the fact that the
excess renewable power is always going to be in the middle of the day when the sun's shining the brightest, and people need their air conditioning the most in the evening. So, the majority of the drive for the batteries to charge in the middle of the day and discharge at night
and that cost variance may be impacted, but it would be minimal. >> Okay. Um, You'd mentioned that kind of the the the local this being local would have a benefit to
the community especially rateayers because it doesn't have to you don't have to distribute the power from far away >> for a company like PSEG which is not just a Bridgewater specific company it's it's regional you know throughout different parts of the state um does
that get taken into account that if another portion or another municipality or whatever um that PCNG serves is getting power imported doesn't have a local facility is that offset or does that go in the mix and then get redistributed to rate payers? So are
local really just question you on what you provided is the local rateayer because they have this facility right next door actually benefiting or is it you know shared amongst uh every PSENG consumer? So I'll say it's it's shared amongst all PSSE consumer consumers
slightly, but there is significant more benefit in the local area surrounding the battery site. An electron is going to go the path of least resistance and the path of least resistance is going to be less wires to travel. So it will support the area around it much more
effectively than area surround. But you cannot control turning left at this wire or going over that one. But it will provide more power locally than it will externally. >> Sure, it'll provide that power. But is PSENG setting the rate overall? Are they
setting it to those consumers that are that are getting the benefit? >> They set it at separate nodes and the nodes will have a higher or lower price and that is measured and that node will be affected by the batteries in a positive way if they're local to that node which is really the case here in
Bridgewater. >> And and Mr. Vessio would ask a question. Is there any evidence of that? I I can't provide numbers for what they have for that. Um PSEG trading, I don't even know if they release all of those, but no, I don't I don't have the specific numbers that I could share.
>> I'm curious if um these battery facilities are being um you know, pushed at the state level as part of uh grid resiliency. If that why, you know, those numbers wouldn't be shared, you know, >> I don't have an answer for that. >> Okay. Um,
I think I have one more question. Oh. Um, this area, believe it or not, is subject to earthquakes. Had pretty significant one a few years ago, at least two years ago. Um, have these batteries been subjected to any kind of earthquake
testing? Yes. Uh they are seismic rated uh for high dense areas. I can't remember if it's called zone four or five, but um they can be placed safely in areas like San Francisco uh or in other areas that are prone to that. So these are rated for high seismic and it
is a standard not like an optional increase. So what is being placed here is the same thing that would be fine to be placed in San Francisco in a much higher earthquake zone because of its seismic rating. >> Have they been installed in San Francisco? uh our batteries specifically. Our batteries have not.
>> Okay. Um and then you know as far as the context of this site, I don't know if you're aware um of there's a truck um the waste transfer station right down the street. So heavy load trucks um are going by this site daily, hourly, you
know, all the time. It's a regional truck transfer station just up the road about a mile or two. There's a quarry um that does blasts. There's a there's quarry trucks that drive this road. Um it's, you know, a heavily industrial road. Not only just normal truck
traffic, but like I said, industrial trucks um that do and and people, you know, around feel the impact of that with um sound and and you know, vibration. I know you'd mentioned earthquake ratings, but have there been, you know,
consistent vibration testing? Yes, we've done that in our lab and each container actually has a vibration and impact sensor in each corner. So, um four of them around uh because the risk to be
honest is not necessarily after it gets installed but during shipment. And those sensors remain active even after installation. uh even though they're basically used to protect it during shipment, it's overkill to make sure that it doesn't experience anything post
installation. >> Okay. Thank you. Um are you involved at all in sight selection or just Okay. Um so you wouldn't have any idea about, you know, the size of the site per per battery or anything like that? >> I just make and sell the equipment. Sorry.
>> Okay. Um this site is adjacent to a flood hazard area. Um is there any and and is subject to a lot of flooding? Um is have there been any tests about you know the batteries going underwater? >> So I can speak to the battery uh side of
things. So the batteries are fully sealed. The only thing that's open to outdoor air is the HVAC and that HVAC is a separate compartment. So even if water was to raise up, you know, over half the container and get to the point where the HVAC intake is, the water would still
not intrude into the battery compartment. It would simply trip the HVAC, which would cause the batteries to stop working until things go down. And then in any flooding incident, uh, we would not restart the batteries until we come inspect, open all the doors at
every single container to make sure there isn't any damage and intrusion, even though they're sealed, just to be sure. >> So that no matter the height of the water, it couldn't penetrate the batteries. That's right. >> If you could completely submerge it and it is sealed.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um I know you'd mentioned before that if there's no internet the site just wouldn't be functioning. Um how is that if there is no internet to check how do you know that that it's turned off? So uh the site each battery container has a
receiver for the control and if that control is not read to be receiving anything. It has an automatic uh ping every like 2 milliseconds or something. And if that uh is not read then the site just goes into shutdown mode and standby
until the connection is restored. >> And I'm just asking you know what if that malfunctions and and overrides what is there a chance of that? Uh, no. I mean, even even if somehow you were manly able to operate the battery, it
still has protections in the battery itself to prevent it from operating beyond its normal parameters. >> Okay. >> So, even if something happened uh you know the remote monitoring center, you couldn't force it to do something bad. >> Okay. And so, I was just going to ask
that question about cyber security. If it is connected to the internet, is there a way that these that this facility could be hacked? Um I can't speak to the specifics of all the cyber security but um we use uh an
American company that runs the control system for it and they have extensive experience a large market share um but I I can't say specifically what they use for their cyber security. >> Okay. Thank you. I don't have any further
questions Mr. Chairman. >> Mr. Fine. >> Some of mine. >> That's okay. >> Okay. As long as they get answered, we're okay. >> No, the two of the one was the the vibration question, too, because I'm thinking about uh there's
instrumentation in there that's very fairly precise and precision instrumentation is not a fan of vibration. Uh similarly when you said that it was why uh internetbased permissives that was my next question is because
remote utility installations that rely on the internet cyber security makes me a little nervous. Um yeah even when I worked at PSCG we have many uh peing sites that were remote operated as well and I believe it's all the same standard uh
cyber security used for those as well. >> Yeah I've dealt with cell towers quite a bit. Um, >> and I apologize if I'm kind of bouncing all over the place. >> Okay. Okay. >> I hadn't had a chance to digest all of this previously. Um, you list a 20-year
guarantee on these cells. Uh, most of the literature that I've run into and in my digging and reading is listed 10 year lifespan. >> Oh, sorry. uh you're you're guaranteeing a 20-y year
lifespan for these LFP batteries and most of the resources I'm seeing are listing like a 10-year lifespan. Um 20 years kind of become a standard originally. 10 was considered useful. Um battery technology has advanced since then. Um almost, you know, even all my
competitors nowadays, uh 20 is kind of a standard. 10 might have been common three or four years ago. >> Okay. Um, piggybacking on the chairman's comments about the lack of of uh incidents on batteries for these LFP
batteries, is this because they're that safe or because there's no track record or is there a mix of both, would you say? Um so the from the numbers and the chemistry of it just because the volatility is lower I can confidently
say they are significantly safer than the first generation of battery storage sites that were put into place. I do agree they have not been in operation for as many uh years but I would also say that there's probably 20 times as many LFP sites now as NMC
because each year the number of battery sites is quadrupling. So although the number of years maybe is not as long, the cumulative overall annual um duration of how many of them in operation um far exceeds what the older
NMC has been in service. >> It it sounds like the NMC are being phased out and the installed base is going to be largely this chemistry until it's replaced. >> Almost everyone has gotten rid of their NMC technology for stationary storage.
Okay. You were talking about recycling uh in decommissioning. Do do you discharge the batteries down to a discharge state and then ship them off? >> Yes. >> Um because I'm assuming we don't want to ship energized >> cells. Well, I mean just to be
completely transparent, the batteries are shipped new with some charge in it because if they're sent uh with zero charge, it will degrade the battery. But that charge is stipulated by national transport laws at 25%. >> Storage charge.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um the test that you spoke of earlier, is that the 9450 test that was listed in the in a literature? >> No. The 9450 test proves that each little battery cell, which is like the size of my hand, if we force that into thermal runaway uh fire incident, it
will not propagate to the next cell adjacent to it. The test that we recently conducted was of the entire container. um the 42 ton uh 20 foot container that we set on fire and documented and released the public.
>> Okay. Um you said the batteries only charge when there's a gap, right, in rates. So if if you have an absence of gap, you're going to have the batteries in a discharged state. >> Don't remain in standby. Yes. Okay.
Okay. Um, and you you changed the response time from an hour to 30 minutes. >> Yep. >> And you mentioned in your previous testimony a remote control. Is the only real remote control a shutdown order or is there more that's
done there? >> No. So the it's remote control and monitoring. So the control obviously tells it when to charge, when to discharge or when to stay on standby. Those are the three commands, but the majority of it is remote monitoring to check all the temperatures of all the
cells, make sure it's operating correctly, determine what maintenance, but that control is really just those commands. Do you charge? Do you discharge? Are you on standby? And then there are 5,000 other things that they monitor in addition to that to make sure it's performing and staying safe.
Okay, I only have two more. Um, you had given testimony about uh emissions caused from a thermal runaway um and a lot of the emergency response. So this may not be you that miss this this may be the other witness
>> um deals with venting to avoid accumulation inside and how does the venting impact the potential >> downwind uh exposure of uh emissions. >> So the emergency response plan uh
dictates that you evacuate to an area of 200 feet which is deemed full dispersion without any hazardous materials. um that 200 feet is dependent upon wind direction, but 200 feet around this site is um wide open of any residence or any other uh structures. So, it's considered
fully dispersed at 200 feet. >> I just have to correct you 200 feet of that installation, their residences within 200 feet. >> Uh I don't I don't believe that they're within 200 feet of the batteries. No, >> of the batteries themselves, you're
saying, or of the in of the your res? Yeah, we're not talking the like the fence line, just where the batteries are. That's why they're saying >> that's a that's a pretty loose standard for us to for you to maintain that I'm going to be 250 ft from a residence. Is that what you're saying?
>> Oh, no. We're just saying simply that at 200 ft the batteries are considered fully dispersed without any hazardous um combustibles or inhalants present. >> And I've got residents right across the street. And that that line that you're
drawing is not a line I'm >> bringing up the map. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And >> you can show me that it's 300 ft, but 300 ft. I think it's 800 or something. >> Provide me a safety measure. >> Uh >> I believe that we're about 600 ft actually. So three times the 200, but
Craig, our engineer, is with us. He can pull up the plan to respond to that. But clearly the relevant distance is the distance from the batteries themselves, not from a boundary line of the property. >> Well, you're saying that within the
within 200 feet of the battery itself that where does that put where does that 200 foot line put you still on the property? >> Uh, yes. >> And does it put you are the batteries within 200 feet of the Somerset County
parking garage facility or any of the vehicles? Well, you know, I think we're starting to get into site details that perhaps >> Okay. But a lot of I'm sorry, Mr. Klein has something who's offering just tell me what it is. >> The emergency response plan lists the
distances from the best enclosure to the neighboring buildings in on page 15 of their emergency response plan. >> And what does it say? I'm sorry because I'm having trouble hearing you. >> Active disposal is 200 feet from the enclosure to the building. The electrical substation is 160 ft.
Somerset County Transportation Office 300 FT's truck repair 400 nearest resident 560 ft. All of those are approximate. >> So I'm I'm not I'm not um what I hear from you and I appreciate your testimony and your cander. You have a lot of data
that is we're supposed to infer from what you're saying that it's acceptable. But it's it's data that you are sharing with us without um an industry standard by which to measure it again. So, at least you don't have any evidence of that. And as your as your role as a
sales representative for Trina Storage, I get it. I understand the presentation. What I don't hear are enough specifics to make me comfortable. And when you draw a line of 200 feet and say there's not a residence within 200 feet, I don't know how accurate your 200 foot claim
is, and you're the only one backing it up. Not only you personally, but your company. if your company has a claim against it and goes bankrupt, there's nothing backing it up. >> I understand. So, part of that reason is that our fire expert was going to be able to speak more intelligent on that
um when he gives his witness testimony, right? >> And I appreciate that. >> Mr. Klein, did you have something else? >> My my last one was when he gave the 200 foot dissipation. What's the source of that or where is it from? Um
>> um so I defer that to our fire consultant as well for that. It's backed up by data, but he can give a better answer. >> That's why that right. >> Yeah. >> Mr. Gaskki, do you have a question? >> Yeah. I just a couple things. What incentives are you getting for this project? Is it federal and state or is it just federal incentives?
>> So currently there is a federal incentive of 30% uh offered uh if you meet certain criteria, >> right? Um that's the only incentive that I'm fully aware of what the exact number is. There is now I believe a state incentive that I don't know all the
details which came about after we started bidding this project um based on the goal for 2030 and I'm not familiar with the details of what that >> that's fine. I'm I'm asking if you will be applying for it if you're aware. >> I'd have to defer to the owner.
>> Yeah. Just speaking to my do you the details of that require some public benefit as I understand it. So if you were to you were to do that it would require to provide a public benefit which I think is one of the things you're saying is part of this application. And then what percentage of
beds facilities that are going in globally are LFP technology today? >> 95 plus percent. >> Right. So there really this is it there's nothing else. This is a pretty standard um facility >> and is there any way to defeat these
safety measures you put in that you're talking about with the isolation the thermal runway? >> So we have some systems that are actuated um but the majority of the systems are passive systems are barriers in between
the the cells barriers in between the containers the chemistry. So most of the systems are passive. That being said, you know, we even though we haven't had any incidents, we cannot 100% guarantee there will never be an incident. It is stored energy. So, if that was to
happen, we have uh systems in place that hopefully never have to be used, but if they are used, they're supposed to minimize what that incident will occur. So, the majority are passive that cannot be defeated. There are several other systems in the container which were all
shut off when we did our test to prove there wasn't propagated that minimize that. >> So the answer I'm sorry the answer is yes it can be defeated or the answer is no. >> The majority of the systems are passive and cannot be defeated.
>> Right. That's all >> I have question Mrs. in just a moment. Even if those systems, as in the barriers that you're describing, degrade over time, they can't be defeated. If they degrade over time and are no longer effective,
>> I'm not sure how they would degrade over time because there are hard bears. >> Part of part of the re part of the possibility that exists is with the constant vibration of which the professionals spoke on that road constantly wearing away as the batteries rub up against their barriers. over time
they degrade and they're no longer as effective as they once were. It's potentially possible. I don't expect you to address it specifically. Those are the kinds of things we're worried about. >> You had a question. >> Oh, sorry. >> I have an operating question. The uh
capacity of the batteries is 20 megawws, right? >> Uh that's the Yeah, the power output of the batteries is 20 megawatts. And uh it can uh hold enough power for 4 hours. After 4 hours it gets drained
out completely. >> That's right. >> Now what happens if public service needs more power for longer then this uh is out uh or is there some way of charging it back again or
>> public service will not be operating it. It would be operated by the owner and the owner will dictate when to charge and discharge the batteries. >> Now, uh once it's discharged, the charging is
done through from public service or does it have a generator or something to >> No, it's it's charged from public services grid service. >> It doesn't have enough power to to charge it up. So then >> yeah, it will only charge when there's
excess power driving that cost down. >> Okay, >> Mr. Rose. >> Yes. Will customers of JCP? >> Um I'd have to ask. I'm not sure. Are the two connected in their grid?
>> Yeah. So my my answer is if they are, yes. I don't know if they have separation between them. I don't believe that's the case and because of that I believe the benefit will be given to where the electron has to travel least. Um there is a potential that there is a
disconnect between the JCPNL service customers and the PSCG customers and if that is the case then it will favor because it won't connect over into the JCPNL >> question that the internet goes down and
Somebody come to the facility before >> Yes. >> Everything goes back online. >> Yes. Chic. Yes. >> I have a question. Uh the previous applicant that was here was putting in a roof solar array and they said that that
it would uh power 69 homes. M >> can you give us a comparison of how much your facility will will power as compared to what they were saying the 69 homes? >> Um I believe we did that analysis. Do you remember what the number was Glenn?
It was all the houses in Bridgewater. I >> think it was some 20,000 homes over 4 hours. >> Yeah. >> Over a 4-hour period. >> So 20,000 for four hours. >> Yeah. >> 20,000. I believe we had prior testimony to that effect, but And I know it's in the papers. I believe that we submitted
as well uh 20,000 homes over a 4-h hour period. Those homes are likely to be >> once >> can go anywhere >> into the grid. Yeah, it'll be it'll be dispersed in the grid. So there's no
guarantee that service but how they are serviced is really >> virtual >> and it's not it's not exclusive to homes your battery storage >> correct it'll be dispersed to the grid >> properties >> that's right right people just use
number of homes as a state of measure and I think when we calculated what it would be it was around 20,000 homes a little more than the size of Bridgewater on on that 20,000 homes. If there's a full I think you mentioned a full power outage, your batteries don't supply the grid. Correct.
>> So, if there's internet, they can still supply fur and that is typical. >> You're not going to be able to Well, how do you how do you do that? You don't have that much power to power the entire grid. Well, >> the batteries have their own power luckily. um they can self-supply their
own power and to make their connection. So you know your your internet just like you pick up your phone your internet can connect >> the grid your power your your batteries will still operate and power on the grid. >> Oh yes that's one of the big benefits of it to minimize power outages >> without a voltage drop. They can do that
>> without a voltage drop. Yeah. I mean the batteries have the ability to cycle way faster than any power plant because it's immediate on and off. Okay. >> So, they will be able to act just like your home generator in your backyard turn on and power homes in the immediate vicinity
>> or industries. >> And one Katherine Zartat, our planner, had a question about the UL. Could you provide her the UL evaluation report or testing report? >> Yeah, we have all the UL reports and certifications and they are uh can easily be distributed. >> I think that'd be good for for professionals to review.
>> Do you know do you don't have those yet? the UL reports the documentation >> I believe we only have I have >> if not it'll make it easier we'll put it at the top of your inbox >> that would be great >> thank you >> we have all those certifications we
don't sell any products without getting that >> they're not ulisted correct >> they're not ulisted they're just you have test UL testing not UL listing >> yeah UL certified >> you do have certified >> you have UL number >> yes uh so our facility is actually UL
well certified number, but yeah, I'll have all the certificates and we can send them over to you. >> Mr. Chairman, do you do you mind if I ask one more question? >> Please go ahead. >> It just something that Mr. uh Brown had said just reminded me of a question I'd written down but missed. Um you just mentioned that this could go on faster
than any, you know, gener generator like residential generator, >> a traditional power plant. >> Traditional power plant. Sorry. Um I meant to ask that you've talked a lot about scale, about this project, about how it can power a lot of homes. Is there any market or any reason um
why individual homes couldn't have a battery power generator just like this one? >> No, not at all. >> And is that is there any market for that or any opportunity for that as the state starts to turn towards renewable sources and battery storage? Um are individual um residential homeowners capable of
also drawing power, charging a battery when the grid is at low demand and having a generating source? Yes, there are systems out there right now mostly combined with uh like a rooftop solar on your house that can charge a battery in order to do the same offset for a charge in the middle of the day and then
discharge to offset your air conditioning at night. >> And is there one with when if someone didn't have a um a solar, you know, installation on their roof? Could they still charge their generator off of the grid and, you know, pay for that energy? Yes, actually there are some uh locations, I can't say for sure which
that use their EV cars to offset grid and they charge and discharge their EV car battery in the same function that I would be using these batteries. And if that that market became more popular just the way that you know EV is an emerging market u where it wasn't you
know a little over a decade ago how would that impact a facility like this if everyone's homes were at you know a large number of homes because there was let's say an NJ incentive program started to charge up their own batteries when demand was low. How would it impact
um this? So would would there be a new kind of low for energy that would then still make this you know a valuable venture or um would it basically nullify the need for you know largecale battery facilities? >> Yeah. So if everyone's home had it in
New Jersey, it would definitely impact how the batteries would operate at a utility scale like this. However, those batteries that are in the system that you could put in your house are so small in comparison that you could put one of
those on every house in Bridgewater and it would not be the same as this specific project. So, you cannot outweigh the size. Even if it's in every home in Bridgewater, it's probably only 20% of what could be produced at this
specific site. Would they be I I don't and I don't mean to go, you know, like for like, but could those individual residential, you know, homeowner batteries provide enough power for that home individually?
>> Uh, typically the ones that they sell now are not large enough to do that, but offset some of the cost. So, um, not to speak in actual numbers, but a generator for like a whole house generator is typically 20 kilowatts. Typically the uh the current solar paired with batteries
is something like 5 kilowatts or less. So it's about 25% of what the house would normally need for a whole generator. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. That's all, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you. So Mr. Brown, thank you for your testimony. We appreciate you coming
back and sharing your information with us. Um Rich, where are we now? because we have >> first just for the record there's no public and no public cross-examination of this witness >> correct >> and um is there any redirect
>> u no not at this time >> okay so I think we're done with this witness right >> u right and yeah unless we decide to bring him back for some redirect but at this point I don't intend to have any redirect tonight >> okay >> fair enough okay thank you thank you
>> so then um you know it's the bewitching hour uh time to pick another continuation date. >> Um I believe the next available date is and I'll give you a few options uh
for your team Mr. Vantel. July 28th is the next available night. Um and then thereafter August 11th or August 25th. Uh, if you give me a moment, please himself. I don't
>> Yeah, I'm just curious. Yeah. >> Scheduling. If it's July 28th, would we be the only item on the agenda? Katherine, if if it is July 28th, are they the only uh item on the agenda right now?
>> Right now, the night is open and we can we can keep that that way for for you to be the only >> good. And that would be the same if we if we had to choose the August 11th date. >> Correct. There's nothing on those nights currently right now and we can hold them. >> Okay.
>> Um just I mean there there's an option maybe for a half a meeting, but I don't know you want to do that again. That's you may be better off with a full meeting that and we'll whatever date that you pick, we'll just hold that. >> 14th of July. >> The 14th is a half meeting.
>> Well, I'm I'm a little confused because I see >> Let's see. Oh, I see. It's on the 23rd. There's nothing on the agenda or there is a >> No, the 23rd has two applications that have rec recently been deemed complete. >> Okay. >> Completeness letters went out last week.
So, they've been added to the 23rd. Okay. the 14th which there was an application that had we had previously heard the hingle application was carried to the 23rd but they've requested an adjournment to the 14th which will be announced on the 23rd they right now are the only application on the 14th so you could share the evening with them on
July 14th or have the whole night to yourself on July 28th >> well okay give me another half half a moment this obviously is important >> I understand here What I'd like to do is have us on for
half the night on the 14th and if at all possible also because we know we're not going to be able to finish everything on the 13th of July with half half a night and then also please put us down for the July 28th. We're talking about you know three over three months from now.
>> I understand. >> We would appreciate that if you could >> I'm not sure if on the schedule how that works. You tell me. >> So we generally I think this came up at a previous hearing. We can't hold that date because we have between now and then we have
one we have probably six six applications that may need to be carried and so we can't hold a date because then it's only going to backlog further other things. So as those are heard we can't hold a date for anybody. you your carry date is the only date we can guarantee
>> and that would be the 28th >> that' be well or >> want the whole day >> or July for 14 14th did you say July 14th would be half a night >> July 14th you can have half the night if you end up getting carried then it's an unknown if any of the other dates I provided to you will be available highly
doubtful I'll say because we have other applications that have yet to been dee be deemed complete homeowners and big applications and we have at least Like I said, probably six applications between now and then that will be heard. Some of them will be resolved and voted upon. Some of them will be carried to future
dates. >> So, it sounds like your safest bet is the 28th. >> I believe that's correct, Mr. Chairman. >> Might be. One more second. >> That's right. >> July 28th. July 28th. >> Yeah, we'd like to have that whole night on the July 28th. If we could have an
announcement made by the board that will be carried to July 28th with no further notice, 7 p.m. in this meeting room, I trust. >> So, for the purposes of the public, this meeting is being adjourned at this point. It will be continued on July 28th at 7 p.m. in this room and there will be
no further notices from the applicant. Okay. >> And we are going to hold that for uh the entire night for you. >> Great. Thank you. I appreciate that >> Mr. Pantel. Thank you. Thank your witnesses. We appreciate it. >> Thank you.
>> July 28th. >> So there Rich, is there anything else we need to discuss or can we adjourn this meeting? >> I think we are good to adjourn. >> Get a motion. >> Can I get a motion to adjurnn? >> Second. All in favor? I
>> We're adjourned.