oh no really where you going my inlaws go down there twoth that's good you have no idea once they get all right we're going to call the meeting to order good evening everyone uh it's Bridgewater Township
Zoning Board of adjustment regular meeting for Tuesday February 11 2025 the time is 7 p.m. adequate notice this meeting was spe was provided in accordance with the open public meetings Act njsa 10 4-6 specifically on January
15 2025 proper notice was sent to The Courier News and the Star Ledger in with the clerk at the township of Bridgewater and post in the municipal bulletin board Please be aware of the Zoning Board of adjustment policy for public hearings no no applications will be heard after 9:30 p.m. and no new testimony will be taken
after 10 p.m. if you're able please rise for the salute to the flaged Ali to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all
hi there Kevin can we get a roll call please here Mr White Deli I hear yes Mr Sweeney here Mr Fresco here Mr
bonjourno here Mr gayeski here Mr seat here Mr kulak here Mr vessio here Mr gabbit here thank
you very much we have our board professionals here and we have board attorney all here as well great uh at this point I'm going to open up meeting to members of the public that would like to speak on any land use issue that is not on our agenda this evening if you'd
like to come speak just come up and give us your name and address please all right seeing none I'm going to close that portion of the meeting and um we're going to go on to minutes which we have none we have one resolution that's the Kravitz resolution
1823 Middle Road looking for changes or comments please no comments all right have a motion Please Mr widley second second it thank you Mrs Amin we just need roll call vote who
made the motion uh Mr widley yes Mr W Deli uh yes Miss Amin yes Mr Sweeney yes Mr
Fresco yes Mr bonjourno yes Mr ESI yes Mr secat yes Mr kulak yes Mr vesio um do you need my vote on this um
no we don't have we don't we don't need his vote we're good you can vote if you want though Mr Rio yes okay wonderful all right all right next up we have um Let's do an update to our docket Rich if you can take us through real quick please
sure want me that's the first one please y so the first matter on our agenda this evening is the Rockland APV Bridgewater energy LLC application for property at 760 East Main Street that application is not being heard this evening um it is
being carried to April 22nd at 7 p.m in this room uh there'll be no further notices from the applicant so if there's anyone in the audience this evening for that application it is now going to be heard April 22nd without further notice
um we have visions and Pathways will be heard this evening we have several other matters that are on our schedule which are um 821 Bridgewater LLC and the Jewish Community Center that is on for hearing on February 25th the St Bernard
Church is on for uh February 25th as well Bridgewater realy which is the Starbucks application is on for March 11th as belly Holdings also March 11th and 1200 route22 land investors and 1200
route22 LLC holding that matter is scheduled now for hearing on March 25th uh Bridgewater Self Storage um is now scheduled for a hearing also on March 25th as is German oil LLC um again March
25th and we are also um continuing with Paul Miller Auto Group on April 8 and there's no further notice from Paul Miller the others will be on separate notice all right great thank you Rich so with that let's uh dig into 8 Third
Avenue visions and pathways [Music] good evening Mr chairman and board members uh Steven hail representing the applicant vision and Pathways I'd like to thank the board and the board professionals and public for their time uh in hearing us this evening um we're
excited to be here for an again an exciting project uh for uh for Bridgewater uh visions and Pathways already has a presence in Bridgewater and it's uh and the gentleman to my left
uh David will explain a lot more about what visions and Pathways as I'm sure some of you know already it's a it's a 501c3 nonprofit and this site will be used for the purpose of providing permanent housing for displace use over
the age of 18 David will explain in more detail there's a lot of uh trols related to that but he'll touch on that we're looking at construct 10 studio apartments to accommodate the individuals and who have basically aged
out of forer care we're going to have on the ground floor two offices a conference room laundry room kitchenet activity room and the first floor we also have four studio apartments and a second floor with six studio apartments uh we will explain and touch on any
relief being sought uh this use it and we'll have testimonies an inherently beneficial use how however it is not technically permitted in the zone and therefore we need the D1 use variance and we will have planning testimony to address that uh and then there are some
bulk uh variances that our site engineer will take us through so uh with that being said and again we appreciate we did get the reports from your board professionals they issued a joint report we're prepared to address all of those and Nancy is great about getting them to
us well in advance of the hearing so we we're prepared for that so Hill why don't we just check notice and we'll swear everybody in and then you can bring your first witness up sure okay so Mr chairman I did review the notice it's imp proper form certified mail to uh the
200 foot list on January 27th published on January 31st so the board has jurisdiction and why don't we swear in all of your Witnesses at once this way they can jump in Witnesses if you would stand please raise your right hand do you solemnly swear that the the testimony you'll give
to this board will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God and my left to right if you would just uh all your names for the record please and spell your last name please thank you great thank you
everyone thank you all right uh Mr Walker you've been sworn now so if you could uh take the board through a little bit about your position tell them about Pathways and then focus on what's
realiz great great and and once again this is real a very exciting project for visions and Pathways um we've been in existence for over 54 years and we've been a pillar um a partner with Somerset County and Bridgewater throughout um our
tenue here in Somerset County and Bridgewater so this is a very exciting project are you with visions and Pathways yes I am the executive director director of visions and pathway your position there executive director thank you I'm sorry I should have stated that at the outset I I'm the executive
director of visions and Pathways I've been with the organization for over a decade um and once again is a remarkable organization that's been in existence for over 54 years um myself I'm a retired attorney that went back to
social work school um and since going back to social work school I've uh been involved with Community Based Human Services for over 30 years um visions and Pathways um our mission is to help abused neglected and missing youth to
become self-sufficient we're the last stop before our young adults are expected to become live alone as adults the Bri child's project will be 10 units efficiency units um uh of independent
housing affordable housing for youth who have aged out of foster care all of our youth at Visions and Pathways go through our prosperity Independent Living skills program what Prosperity does is it teaches our young adults um life skills
um job search um how to be a responsible tenant how to be a responsible member of the community so before our young adults move into Bridge house they will have gone through our prosperity Independent Living skills program we will be assured
that they will be contributing members to this community that we're so proud of that was good that was good clean my throat was good so Prosperity is a core component
of this program so the young adults who will be residing at Bridge house will have gone through our prosperity Independent Living skills program so we'll be assured that have the life skills to be contributing members of our community it will be affordable housing
so each one of the residents 10 residents will pay 30% of their income towards the rent the rent will be subsidized through public sources the sources that we have already
obtained for this project are all for affordable housing we're committed to providing afford housing is this project we manage own and manage six properties in Bri I have a question um
how are the uh C how are the candidates selected to live in the house yeah there there there will be a screening process and there will be a um Lottery process but our funding sources have restricted it to
youth who have aged out of foster care so that limits the pool significantly so through visions and Pathways in our partners within the service Community we will identify youth who have aged out of foster care who are ready to live
independently into studio apartments thank you 13 years ago I don't know if it was you or somebody else right was in front of this board asking for variances related to what at that point was called a group home those variances were
granted yes since then nothing's happened yes you the same applicant that we listened to 12 or 13 years ago different executive director changed organization over the course of the last 13 years we have strengthened the organization in many ways one of the
ways that we have strengthened organization is through our prosperity Independent Living skills program so it's a organization you're different however we're different very different why has nothing happened funding the last 13 years funding in our our
capacity to ensure that the program that we bring to you is strong that we can provide the support that these young folks need to be contributing members of our community so over the course of years we have obtained the funding
necessary to move the project forward and we have built the infrastructure within the organization to make make sure that every one of the young adults who reside in Bridge house would be prepared for Independent Living move on
in their careers move on in their personal lives and be contributing members to our community so the funding and the infastructure are in place today that's correct were they in place 13 years ago they were not why did you come here 13 years ago if you weren't ready
to do something and how do we know that's any different today I I cannot speak to what occurred years ago I was not the executive director at that time um but um they were in the process of attracting the funding uh many things have changed over the course of the last
13 years for example the support for affordable housing is more plentiful um not enough you you all know that there's a dir of affordable housing within the state within the nation um but funding for affordable hous is far more plantable now than 13 years ago than 10
years ago so that's one of the major changes and within visions and Pathways within our infrastructure our ability to make sure that anyone who moves into Bridge house will be ready for Independent Living has strengthened tremendously over the course of the last
decade so if you get the variances you're here applying for tonight when will we see something happen on this lot where where as anxious as you are to make something happen on this lot well that doesn't help me because I think you were very somebody was very anxious 13
years ago but that translated into no action whatsoever how can we feel comfortable that you're not wasting our time again that you're actually going to go ahead and build this house we have a remarkable team in place we have penon
Engineers we have Buckman Architects we're partnering with Monarch housing Associates which is um the premier um organization within affordable housing within the state of New Jersey and we have secured adequate funding to
move forward there is a small gap between what we secured through Public Funding and What needs to move to move to complete the project securing these approvals will move us forward in securing the
additional funding necessary so in order to pull down the funds that we have for which we have commitments we need these approvals so we want this to happen our
our community meaning the Human Service community that wants to ensure that youth who age out of foster care have a safe stable supportive environment to to move forward we are anxious and ready to move forward with this project maybe you
could identify question funding the type of funding maybe I know you have group homes in the area differentiate difference what's being proposed here
with the independent living as opposed to group home and and again identify yeah our primary funding source is through the county through uh the County Department of Human Services a
$1.4 million Grant towards this project um so that that's a Maj uh source of support for restricted to affordable housing um we also have funding through foundations and charitable contributions that amount
to another two $400,000 um so through the county funding and the foundation in charitable contributions we have close to $2 million moving towards its project the what was the other question the other
was differentiating we were here none of this right for a group home I know you have group homes in the area the difference between traditional group home and what's being proposed here yeah we have uh four four group homes within
Bridgewater two of them were within walking distance from bridge house the difference between the group homes and the bridge house project as we call it is the level of self-sufficiency that the residents will have um in Bridge house in the group
home we're preparing the young folks who are about to age out of foster care to live on their own become self-sufficient in Bridge house they would have achieved a high enough level of self-sufficiency to live independently in apart in the
apartment however there will be close monitoring through our prosperity Independent Living skills program there will be security cameras 247 and through the Staffing at the group homes one block away to the east one block away to
the West um or is it North and South north and south there will be Staffing 247 to provide support for the Young Folks at Bridge house so changes the funding strengthening in terms of the
program ready to move forward so you mentioned two other group homes or whatever you call them at this point are they though two buildings on Fourth Avenue there's one on Fourth Avenue which we call um passages there's another on Third Avenue which we call my
place my place is a five bedroom group home passages is a 12 um bid Group Home in addition to the group home at passages there's administrative offices where we have our case managers my office is actually on the Fourth Avenue
site as well as other support services so the support services um for bridge house will be right across the Street at 4th Avenue there will be additional staff support on Third Avenue um in the group home
so the individuals living in Bridge house will be capable of Independent Living affordable housing they will contribute 30% of their income towards the rent they'll be ready to move on in their lives and this will be a major stepping stone for
them thank you um I have a question uh Mr swy was talking about the application actually it was in 2012 that's when you people uh came before our board and at that
time uh you didn't have the funding or you didn't uh did you get the state funding from for uh afterwards uh after that 2012 yes the funding that I describe we obtained uh
within the last two years um so the funding that I described to move forward with the construction of this project was not secured at that point in time when I started a little over a decade ago that was the major hurdle for
moving this project forward they had come before this board have received their approvals but they did not have the funding to move forward major difference also once again the support services that are very strong at this
point in time we have a remarkable behavioral health staff those did not exist in in this form um a decade ago I have a followup question does the state fund the entire uh project or do
you have to get a loan and and and actually I I I should I must have misspoke it's funding through the county not through the state um the other independent funding through foundations and individual contri contributions we actually have some of our donors here
tonight um rooting us on um so it's through the county funding that is a pass through from from federal allocations did I answer your question the state uh gives you only a
certain amount and then the remaining you will be funding yes um the the the government funding that we have currently there is a gap um but we will be able to access for example affordable
housing trust fund um support um this is very attractive project for affordable housing trust fund um after we move forward in the next step in the approval process so this is a major Lynch pin in pulling down other funding government
as well as private contributions so for your operating expenses uh do you charge the people who use use the space or how how how does yes it's affordable housing um and so in
order to be a tenant at Bridge house they will have to be employed um and we will charge rent uh 30% of their income and that that is the concept that you have someone perhaps their first job
perhaps working two jobs more often not working two jobs um having affordable housing is clearly important for them to be able to move on in their careers in advance so studio apartment one person
in each apartment they get their uh stabilize their lives save as part of prosperity we expect each individual to save 30% of their income um and then after they save um have stability in
terms of unemployment they can move on and move out a bridge house we anticipate that that each resident will be in the tenant each tenant will be in um Bridge house for approximately two years so you have stability um not a
high level turnover but you also will have some progress in that these young folks will get that Foundation that they need to move on in their lives so uh if I remember correctly way
back uh when I was reading something the affordable housing that can be the township can use that as the uh count of uh number of housing that's required yes yes this is
a project that will meet towards um the municipality's uh obligation affordable housing obligation so it's a win-win U it's a win for the young adults who will be the tenants Bridge house is a win for
Bridgewater and then it helps meet the affordable housing obligation okay that's all I have uh yeah I have a few questions for clarity actually when you're talking about
you're a nonprofit so you said that you have the grant money ready to go to build this project correct yes that is correct okay so I'm correct on that end now the next step is
the 10 tenants there in the 10 studio apartments or whatever you want to call them rooms they pay 30% of their income to your group that is correct now my
question is if that's not enough to cover the overall operation who is your nonprofit then where does the rest of the money come from yeah that's one actually one of the benefits of being a nonprofit that we can attract Foundation
support and other public Monies to cover any sort of Gap such as s such as a department and childrens and families on Department of Community Affairs um actually Bridgewater has a a a program
called Community Development block grant so through um local state in federal funding um we can cover any gap between uh what is being paid by the
tenants and our need for ongoing upkeep that's one of the benefits of being a nonprofit a for-profit um would have to depend entirely on the tenants income for ongoing um operations that is not
the case with us and it so you're able to use all the government resources cause your status to be able to fund any gap between the income from your tenants and the gap of what you need to operate
exactly okay it better than I did thank you thank you um so my next question is now you have two group homes right in the same area which you have an office in yes can you go over again what what your
definition of a group home is our definition of group home is one the the the residents do not pay rent um our funding is exclusively from um public sources for example um with the passages
group home that's the building on Fourth Avenue it's fully funded through the Department of Children and Families either through a grant or per DM payments um there is age limit
on the residents resident as compared to a tenant the resident ability to stay there so in our group homes they age out at 21 and that's one of the challenges that we have right now that we work with
a young person for approximately year help them obtain the skills to be self-sufficient they cannot live with us Beyond age 21 and there no avail ability of affordable housing so that's one of
the major differences group home age out um affordable housing there's no aging out and you pay rent okay is that also considered nonprofit then that part of it too yes all the programs that we provide are nonprofit okay so in your group homes
then they're there basically for a year or less maximum age 21 yes at the at the group homes um uh passage is my place excuse me in Whitney house at those three group homes yes
they age out at 21 we also have another home called Brahma house um and that's our largest facility actually and that's for youth age up to age 17 13 to 17 so once again that's one of the major
differences between the group homes and the affordable housing program with the group homes there are age limit and other restrictions with the affordable housing program The Bridge house project Bridge housee affordable housing
complex okay there will not be a aging out and the tenants will be working and pay rent okay okay thank you I'll more questions later about that Mr Walker if I might I I think what your response to Warner Mr W deli's questions was that
the residents will pay no rent but I thought heard earlier that they 30 I apologize I misspoke in the group homes the residents do not pay rent what about this in bridg house the the tenants will pay rent 30% of their income thank you I
I apologize for I have a question yes um this goes to just the daily operation of the house just curiosity um does does the project provide meals for people or do they have to do their own shopping and their own
cooking they have to do their own shopping and cooking but we do Provide support for for example we have another program called um Prosperity impendent living skills actually that there are two components for Prosperity we work with the kids young adults in our group
homos as well as young adults in the Greater Community um with the young adults in the Greater Community we help them um with chopping and affording food we also have a uh condom in um two bedroom condominium in
Bridgewater same thing there is independent living they pay rent um they live on their own but we do help them because the cost of food oh my goodness but we do help them um meet those ongoing expenses same thing with
Transportation with Bridge house um they will be part of our Continuum services with Bridge house and other programs we do provide limited Transportation but we also teach our young adults once again
self-sufficient to use public transport Transportation so luckily there is a bus route nearby walking distance um for people younger than me walking distance from um the facility so they can use
public transportation there's also um van service available through visions and Pathways so we teach them to cook into independently we help them a little bit food is expensive we teach them to use public
transportation but we also help them save so that they can buy a car our experience has been that our youth young adults do not purchase a car while they are living with us right now none of the residents in our group homes own a
vehicle what will happen is as they're about to move out preparing to move out that's when they will purchase a vehicle so we do not anticipate many of the bridge house tenants will have a vehicle
so each of the studio apartments we'll call them they all have refrigerators and stoves and things like that yes and is there a general cleaning service or is everybody responsible to clean their
room or their condo and the rest of the house how does every everyone is responsible for is it Independent Living Apartment Complex affordable housing complex so they are expected to maintain the upkeep of their individual Apartments once again that's why it's so
important that we prepare our young adults for living independently before they move into Bridge house these candidates um how do I say this um they
are not developmentally challenged no no they they are fully capable of living independently thank you wel I have a question um so you said this these are for individuals that at the earliest um are
out of foster care yes aging out of foster care what age would that be I'm not clear what that age typically a young person ages out age 21 and that's one of the differences in the system actually if we were having this conversation 15 years
ago the the age of Aging out typically would have been 18 um and that's simply too young um 21 is something of a challenge but that's why we provide such strong support so yes 21
okay so minimum minimum 21 yeah they won't be kids they'll be young adults okay is there a maximum age uh no no so the the goal is bring the young person in they will be around 21 years
old um work with them to move on to a higher level of self efficiency get a better job where they can afford to pay me rent more rent within two years that has been our experience with the two bedroom condominium that we own that two
years or less typically um is the amount of time that um the tenants live in our condominium so so we we do have a model um best practice um that we're using um to replicate with Bridge house okay so
there um is there a maximum of how many individuals can live in one unit yes one their efficiency apartments one person so no if if any of these individuals have children or what what happens what's the procedure um no if we will
help some if the Young person does have a child um we will help them find a more appropriate uh apartment complex for for them um and once again one of the things that we do um hopefully um the young
person um if they conceive um are at a point where they can afford to raise a family um but we do help um our young adults learn about en tyent programs food stamps um there are subsidies for
child care and such but the the the model is single adults what would be um criteria for someone to not qualify or to be involuntarily removed
um disrupted behavior um non-payment of rent um we do not discharge we do not evict immediately um when someone becomes unemployed but of course um it
will have a detrimental impact on their ability to pay rent okay and so it's 30% of rent and I'm assuming it's based on their income so that 30% is flexible yes it's based on their income okay and is it expected that we
spoke about the group home that the people from the group home will this is like the next step for them to move into this unit yes okay thank you uh one other question when this is built you said you have the funding is
there going to be a mortgage on the property um a a deed restriction so um as part of the Public Funding that we received um there's a 30-year commitment um for it to be used for affordable
housing that okay but will you be paying off the construction and for out of your funding or will there be a mortgage the cost for the construction will be covered by our funding not by a mortgage
so the the funding is to cover the construction costs did I answer the question yes it does so going forward the operating cost to run the house what is what do you anticipate that yeah the operating cost to run the house that's
part will be covered in part by the 30% paid by the tenants subsidies um for example there's something called wraparound funds for youth who have aged out of foster care so those wraparound
funds will help cover the cost between the rent that we would charge ordinarily and um the 30% that the young person is able to pay um once again the the model being our
condominium where we have residents at our condominium that pay 30% of income but through wraparound funds that are available through the department and Children and Families the Gap is made up um by that funding thank you just wanted
to um follow up on some of the questions that Mr ccat uh asked before um would your organization be committed to holding the maximum occupants at 10 oh yes definitely okay definitely no no no we we we take great pride in our
properties MH um and we take pride in being contributing um neighbor uh asset to the bridgew community so no you're not going to have overcrowding okay at any of our
properties right Bridge house um or the group homes okay what are like um visiting rules you know typically it's Independent Living so um the rules would be the same as any other apartment
complex however once again um every one of our tenants will be attached to our prosperity independent living sales program um or our um transitions program depending on where they are and their
stage of self-sufficiency so they will be expected um to maintain their apartment as any other tenant in any other apartment complex um they guest one night let's say they they go out and then they people can sleep over
apartment it's an apartment okay now if this application um let me go back to another question I have um regarding sort of the you know public benefit you know as part of the variant application um is in terms of
your applicants that would be living here would there be preference given to Foster uh children that were raised in Bridgewater yes our funding gives preference to youth who have aged out of foster care in Somerset County residents
um after that it will be open to non- Somerset County residents and um young adults who are not aging out of foster care but unfortunately um there are so many you you who are aging out of foster care in need of housing that we would never have
to go beyond that pool um just within visions and Pathways Alone um looking at the youth who have aged out our program within the last two years we could fill those 10 units so you you you mentioned the model
so where where else is this happening where else are these types of uh yeah um within the state uh comparable model is they um through Catholic Charities they have a rental assistance program called
my first home um it that's similar to what we're doing except it's rental assistance not within a uh apartment complex in itself we also well our two bid room condominium that's another
model um we have our Village House program which is similar to Catholic Catholic Charities of my first home program and our village house program is rental assistance here in Somerset
County and Mars County um so the rental assistance programs um sometimes called scatter sight housing programs are comparable models we're we're we're unique in that we will have a small
Focus setting for the Youth who are age out of foster care so that's one of the things that's so very exciting about what we're doing that you're going to have a small affordable housing um complex with
social servic social services rally available um and independent living okay so if you fast forward assume you get this you're a year from now ready to go how many applicants you think you're going to have 30 for 10 50 for 10
it's hard to say but but easily 20 for 10 and and the majority of those applicants would be young adults who have been affiliated with visions and Pathways doing great work you know it's
important and not true we all this just sounds great throw that in there but you know I of course have to think that if I'm a neighbor you know sudden this genu pops up and it's for you know abused neglected youth that have aged
out of foster care you know we we all want this it's great but um if if you guys are just coming up with your own model I mean convince us that you know
this is safe for the Neighbors oh very much so so so once again um as we discussed protocols in place and I know you don't have to go back through it I know you said cameras and I know you said um the displaced youth program and all that
but right just like like when it comes down to it I mean it's going to work that's one of the reasons that we took our time I mean in all cander um there were two issues one funding but also making sure that we had a strong program and now we
have both and we did have two meetings with neighbors um to discuss this project there was no opposition to this project from the neighbors um and there was a good turnout from from the neighbors um the only issues that we
heard from the neighbors were were drainage issues with that we don't control so yeah we we we we have a excellent relationship with our neighbors thank you thank you Mr Fresco
M Mr Walker that's a good point I think what what Mr Fresco is trying to to put out our concern from the board is to make sure that the neighbors are on board and I think that's great testimony you just gave that you did meet with the neighbors and you did get by in I just want to you know reiterate because we had a lot of questions and there were
some repeats for your funding to be complete it's predicated on these approvals correct yes and unlike 2012 that you will be fully funded upon those approvals yes that's all I want to know thank you and and and thank you for what you do for our community sounds like you
you've put your life's work into this and thank you for making our community and our our our Township better real quick could you tell us why you you chose Bridgewater and why this exists in Bridgewater and why you know there's a lot of other towns that maybe this could
be easier to put in place why Bridgewater is that a personal question or visions a Pathways question no no it's actually something I probably know the answer to already I'd like the board to maybe hear this and members of the public to he why Bridgewater Bridgewater
is a remarkable Community um for me person personally when I was seeking new employment um I was working for agency in marown for a decade I I wanted to find a community that was welcoming to
nonprofits and a nonprofit that was respected within the community um for our young adults this is fantastic you have young folks who have experienced tremendous trauma um our
young folks in order to be in a group home they have experienced so much hardship um most kids similarly situated kids are either living with extended family or in a foster home our
kids it hasn't worked for them what we provide at Visions and Pathways is an opportunity to thrive so why Bridgewater but because it's a supportive community and it's an
environment in which our young folks can Thrive want me to throw it to the board professionals you have more testimony s well let's open up the board professionals case they have any questions and then we'll open up the members of the public they can ask questions and then we'll go to your next Witness
perfect thank you um thank you for your testimony uh just a few questions um are you you'd mention that there's kind of some Gap funding or to help with the rental payments um to for the individuals that wraparound funding from the DCF are you a licensed enti are you
licensed with the state do you require license with the state yes now this particular um apartment complex will not be a like LIC facility but um for our group homes we
are licensed um that's the only way that we could operate the group homes so we we're licensed um as a provider for group home services um in our group homes also we have a program called Pathways Community Counseling which is a
therapeutic behavioral health program um and there's a additional licenser associated with our behavioral heal program so we're licensed through the group homes and licensed to provide um therapy Behavioral Health Services okay and so
for um the individuals who are applying for you know these units to you in order to qualify for any that wraparound funding is there any kind of voucher program or anything that they need to do at the state level in order for that to come through yes they have to have
completed an independent living skills program such as Prosperity so what another level of assurance that the young folks who move into um Bridge house and will be El eligible for wraparound support have succeeded in
terms of uh an independent living skills program okay and so so you you basically have a captive audience of of applicants right because they're likely going through your program they're familiar with your organization already yes the vast majority I once again I swore um
the vast majority will be graduates from our program there will be um maybe not initially um because we have a pool through Visions Pathways so right now we could fill the 10 units um at some point there may be applicants
from the larger Department children families um Community but once again they will be rigor rigorous rigorously screened in the same way as the visions and Pathways young adults um I think I raised it in my review memo
affordable housing in the context of how it how it assists the township is a little bit different than just subsidized rents so you'd mentioned the deed restriction which is good um the the more complicated portion of the
affordable housing is that as a group home each bedroom count when it's an alternative living Arrangement or supportive needs or group home that's licensed through the state um those are generally covered by each bedroom counts um and they they usually have shared
kitchens and shared facilities these studio apartments or if you looked at this as like 100% affordable multif family right um it's a little bit more tricky and this is why I asked about the licensing through the state um because there are the uniform housing
affordability controls do also regulate bedroom distributions this now you can seek wer waivers for those things the township can you know figure out how their entire bedroom distribution fits out but I I was
curious if this could be captured as an alternative living Arrangement based on the fact that you have a specific population that you're targeting so there's kind of a resident preference put in there about who can apply it's not open to the general lottery which is how affordable housing otherwise would
for apartments would run so um I think we could probably work that out uh through this process uh you know through a deed restriction but I would be um I know we keep kind of making this distinction that it's not a group home and that it is affordable housing but we
need to kind of meld the two of those for the purposes of how it qualifies to best benefit the town and be creditworthy through the state regulations maybe Mr hail or Mr Walker can clarify I I got the definition of a group home is 18 and under and you know I want to make sure that when we
go and get our our 10un credit upon approval that you know this group home designation doesn't hamper the town's ability to take credit for these 10 affordable housing units I I I think that is something that we can't address here as the board and maybe that's something that in a resolution I'm not
really sure how to handle that yeah I was also going to ask who's going to qualify the residents and because there's something in your application that they would all be very lwi income residents right yes so who's what's the process for qualification then and
that's that's part of what my other question was when when there's a group home that's licensed through the state the qualification is basically when the Stout the state approves that Resident offers them a voucher to pay for their their rent and then they find tendency somewhere wherever a group home that they get selected for
um in the case of a general multif family apartment building there's an administrative agent they income qualify it's a lottery system which is what I was mentioning before that the preference you really there there's no allowance to um provide preference by location so it's um throughout the
region that they get to qualify uh it can't be just for Bridgewater it can't be for certain age groups um I think the only preference that's really stipulated is that you can do a Veterans Preference for some multif family but this is why um initially this was approved as a group home it shows up in our housing
element as a group home which is a little more simple because you don't have to worry about bedroom distribution you don't have to worry about income qualifying like I said I think um we're we have to walk a fine line between how that is captured in the deed restriction and the ultimate restriction on the
units so that the township can capture them and not get penalized by the state regulate the state affordable housing regulations and and for those bedroom distribution income qualif all that other stuff um and Mr W have you w have you worked through that issue yet and
and qualify can you we're working with uh Monarch housing and they are the the experts in affordable housing um in in terms of qualifying my experience is that we do
work with the local monitors but we um do the income verification make sure that meets the U definition of low or very low income and
in turn um that's the process that that I've used before and Monarch is a highly qualified they do a lot of 100% affordable development I don't know if you plan on having them as a witness as part of your testimony as part of the application um it may be helpful um to
help iron that out um because it was it was a piece of the old approval it was something that as a part of the original approval ended up in our thread around housing element as 10 credits which has now put us on the hook for 10 credits I'd like at a minimum to see Monarch
write something you know of qualification letter that you know at least stipulates that this does meet the criteria and we can utilize them as an expert should there be a problem with the state verification I think there's there's other layers here not just the income qualification the bedroom distribution is
um uh there are requirements for that there's a requirement that if you have studio apartments that they be offset by two-bedroom apartments that you have to have no more than 20% one bedrooms no more than oh you have to have a minimum 20% three bedrooms that's obviously not the model here that's for a typical
multif family inclusionary development but we could spend the whole night talking about this oh absolutely so you know it doesn't change the fact that it's inherently beneficial use yeah doesn't change the fact that this is a in need project doesn't change the fact that Mr Walker has two for one
applications lined up for this so I I think this is something as an applicant and again it's your case and you can proceed as you want it sounds like the planner is asking for some verification from your expert which is monarch Mar and you know maybe we can start with a letter addressing some of these concerns and maybe they can reach out to
Katherine directly and and pen that you could submit that to the board and if you think it's necessary let's get Monarch in to testify but you know I'd like to keep the meeting moving and ab yeah I I didn't mean to hold it up I I think that's I think that's a great idea I think if I don't want to lose what's
already in our inventory this is a 2012 approval you know this is a third round approval so it's in our inventory is Bridgewater Township you know to replace those units is is is burdensome on on the township at this point we don't want to do that and we don't want to hold up your project and I'm certain we can get the
the letter from from Monarch that would be helpful uh I just had a few other questions more about operations than about affordable housing um so I noticed that there is there's the off in the office space there is a security office
there's an admin office um can you just describe the Staffing and kind of security uh like the typical number of employes that are going to be on site typically we will have at least one employee on site Monday through Friday
um during work hours um we do have facility staff um that that's available 247 so Monday through Friday during working hours there will be a staff person present um 247 availability of
facility staff and that's um where the security staff would also um I know that we've mentioned a few times that these are Apartments I was just curious based on the security cameras and um some of the program intentions if there were curfews imposed
um particular no no it's independent living and apartment complex no no curfews no curfews um I think that's all I have for this witness thank you Mr Burr thank you Mr chairman just a couple of quick
questions Mr Walker um you had testified that you guys take um great pride in in maintenance of your properties and and upkeep of your properties just walk the board through how a property like this is maintained lawn cutting snow plowing
Etc yeah um we we contract for um lawn care and snow removal um sack telli we they've worked with us for a number of years um in addition we do have our maintenance staff to supplement um the
the contract with with saell um same thing with uh garbage removal um we have a contract um for removing trash um so we have our um in-house staff to take
care of minor um repairs um if it's a snow not as large as what we're anticipating but if it's a small accumulation our facilities team can address those issues and there's some overlap with the
maintenance staff with your other facilities they're they're familiar with the operation ETA very much so okay yes okay um we talked a little bit about the age of the tenants and I recall seeing in some of the application materials
that it listed for this property ages 18 to 24 years old but then through some of the testimony I'm understanding that this property would be available to to prospective tenants starting at 21 years old is that is that correct yes it would
be available for youth who have aged out of foster care and typically um a young person ages out at 21 on the material where it shows um 18 through 24 that is referring more than likely
without looking at it at our prosperity Independent Living skills program in general um our prosperity Independent Living skills program in general works with youth ages 18 through 24 okay so this facility youngest you're going to see
are tenants 21 years or older there though is not a cap of 24 years old you you stated through your experience the typical tenant would stay likely around two years so if they're in that 21y old
starting point typically 21 to 24 is the average is that is that a fair correct that's correct yeah okay is there could there be an occasion where somebody would need to stay as a tenant for much longer than that have you
seen in our experience no um but it's not something that we would exclude in our experience um once again uh our tenants stay less than two years okay um
last question question has to do with parking on the property and and the way the project has been laid out there's six parking spaces in a small parking lot in the rear of the proposed building and I
understand the rationale for developing that number but you also mentioned that these apartments Independent Living it's it's like any other facility with visitors Etc so I'm just curious in your experience I know you said most of the
tenants will not have vehicles but if visitors are coming on the property do you feel like six spaces are going to be sufficient for folks coming definitely um our experience has been with our condominium in our village house program
that less than 10% of our tenants have um Vehicles themselves um with visitors um tend yeah 10 would be sufficient based on once again our experience with our rental assistance programs in our group
homes um also note that in our um property on 4th Avenue there's ample parking as well um so you have the six at Bridge house and you have parking available right across the street at our
passages facility as well I'm glad you brought brought that up cuz I actually took a look at the passages facility and I noticed quite a generous parking lot at that facility for only 12 bedrooms I think you mentioned yes 12 bedro size
but much more parking is it is it just over parked um is there a reason uh it's staff it it's staff and um collaborative Partners um so during business hours there's always ample parking um but but
it's used primarily by staff and collaborative Partners um so during off hours yeah there there's more than the Apple Park so it's not a fair comparison to look at that facility and compare it to this one and say you need more parking because that one has it no
that's a unique very unique and your testimony is in the event that at the bridge house additional additional parking overflow parking is needed for whatever reason that folks would be able to use the parking lot at um passages
passes on Fourth Avenue right across the street okay very short walk yes okay thank you thank you Mr chairman all right members of the public you have questions for Mr Walker on his testimony Now's the Time you can come up and ask questions you got to come up to the microphone because tell us your name
please yeah my name is yenan sp h u n g I live at4 Avenue yeah 147 you know nobody have us
to object or not object this project nobody yeah number two your question is very nice the parking space ading to my driveway okay and uh
my the first is very busy a lot of school bus and a lot of senior bus you know pass by and the low condition very bad a lot of P hole you know they just P it never P it in case they have more car
and more trophy come in I project the conjuction will happen in my corner okay number one number two you know I have a compassion this is really just a time for questions right do you have questions for him okay and
there'll be time when you can come up and you can give a statement to the board but right now it's just questions at the end of all the testimony I'll open it up for members of the public and they can speak for or against I'll give you as much time as you want to make comment on but right now we have to ask questions on the testimony of Mr Walker
is the management will be the same as the existing for home across the street are they the same management or different same man the same management it's the same management okay my question is this my house has been
broken in twice since I live there since 2000 and I report to policeman I complain you know because you have a low cor rate in Bridge Water but the the policeman told me know your
area is different except your area my corner area so I told you candidate I don't know how do you screen do you check there in know Rec before although I have compassion to them you know or
sympathy to them but even you have a good project you have to Cate the good location for example like a fire like a power project everybody need power electricity but you put a power
plan you know just adjusting to my house and the neighbor I will OB it different because my house value you're going down you know you can choose another location I don't know why do you choose Bridge War why don't you apply for a show
here Mor time or hill side or whatever you because that's close to J side is very important if you have a job in New York City you know across the New Jersey Jersey Transit railroad area there is a lot of good area yeah and they have a
good communication you know I mean uh they have a good Transportation go to some je side that's very important you that's my suggestion so my question is are you going to increase the traffic in that area and
number two well let them answer the first one engine one at a time um we we don't anticipate a increase in in traffic um the the staff um that will be associated
with the project will be existing staff just relocated so there would not be a increase in traffic based on that we do not anticipate many of our tenants having vehicles um I wanted to start by
apologizing um to my knowledge we did reach out to every neighbor um within what is it 200 yards 200t 200 feet for the open house that we held and some neighbors did show I I
apologize if we miss you um it was not intentional and was not intentional we did we did intend that um when it comes to screening for our group homes there is a meet and Greek
process um so there is a meet and Greek process where we do screen um uh youth who participate in our group homes and we do not uh admit youth who are inappropriate for the bridge house
apartment complex there will be screening through the uh Prosperity Independent Living skills program and other controls to ensure that the tenants are good neighbors um with
respect to the two break-ins it one I'm not aware of any of my kids and I call them my kids um being involved with uh any break-ins um it it may have occurred
prior to my tenure but during the decade that I've been with visions and Pathways none of my kids have been involved in a in a Breakin another question last question how are you going to have fire
engine maneuver the same as it used to be or you have a more difficult difficulty you know in the future because your variance your Maxima uh FL area ratio will be increased from 35% you get approv to
46.5% so your parking space your manuver space for fire engine will be more difficult in the future that's I I think that might be more of a question for uh yeah I think so too he didn't really testify about the F but we'll get there okay and you can come back and ask more
questions when the next witness talks about F's floor area ratios okay all right thank you sir all right any other members of the public have questions for Mr Walker all right seeing none we're going to CL oh come on up we just need your name and address
please hi I'm K I'm live on night 963 Third Avenue so I do have the U two group home one the group home right across from my street and the other group homes on the four basically on the other side of my house um question is
are you anticipa could be the noise level because from from what the way manage for the two group home that's you know I see that good but we are pretty close to during the day I mean we have a lot of traffics and Route 28 280 7 is right
behind us and it's always constantly noise um I just kind of wonder if you know the noise could to be a problem because you know you know typically at night I also hear a lot you know when no other car gone by but the noise simp PR
Amplified because of you know approximately to you know 287 understood um we do do not anticipate a large increase in vehic vehicular traffic um associated with the
apartment complex um through our prosperity Independent Living skills program we do teach our young adults to be good neighbors and um being respectful of other folks not making not
Noise online is is is part of that also um we will have once again we have 247 Staffing at our Fourth Avenue um property as well as our other group
homes and so that we'll know if if our tenant are making too much noise and we will self- police as they say um because we're we're very um conscious of not being disrupted to to our neighbors okay
and the second question would be is like you anticipate the the the area the the building because you know 10 10 studio right full uper Studio I don't know how big at the propos of the building overall building
size got look like I haven't seen the layout right but um it's there simp like a big uh piece of building I guess in my opinion next is s engineer exhibit showing where it sits
oner and all right okay and and currently I know your group home uh in the last I think two years or so have been relatively empty like this past year uh or last
year have been very quiet I haven't seen anybody moving in on my on one of the group home across from my street are you expecting that that could be um going to be fill as well at the one that the bridge home that you been doing so
because you know obviously you know thing have been quiet but if everything going be full to capacity was that going to be like in term of you know noise and traffic and all yeah one I take that as a positive that you haven't heard a lot
of no ways from no no that's fine you man the way you manage the group home I have no complaint I think you've been doing a great job with that one and the work you guys do for GR on the record right no no and the fact but that did something defin you're proposing thank
you um but also yeah the the census in our group Comas goes up and down um based on referrals from the the state so sometimes we're at full capacity sometimes we're at low capacity so that
that's what you're seeing is up and down and part of that up and down just for for the record is that if a young person is inappropriate we move towards this charge once again I'm making sure that
the next move is positive for the Young Folks we move towards discharge as expeditiously as possible we don't want any problems in the neighborhood okay Mr Walker what's the vacancy rate currently at U the low the
two other group homes in the area yeah um currently uh for uh let's say we're at once goes at 8% capacity of the group home that that's currently functioning thank you that's what's again off the
top goes up and down but about 80% of capacity is at the operating group home I have no further question thank you any other members to the public please we just need your name and
address Ronald picato uh address 123d Avenue uh so I'm right at next to the property that's getting built uh how do I know and assure my family that I don't want to point fingers but you know but how do I assure that I'm going to be safe you know like if we have 10 kids that are aging out of foster foster care
how do I know that they've been background checked and that U you know I can let my two-year-old kid play outside safely our prosperity Independent Living skills program so for our group homes we
do not accept um young adults who are have committed arson or felonies so that will be the pool from which we are pulling for bridge house so uh yeah
let's just look um we currently have a water issue on the road so I don't know if there's a lot of Springs of water or Wells cuz my house isn't a well water we're going to talk about that go through that okay all right just wanted yeah okay all right thank you thank you all right anyone
else all right seeing none your next witness please yeah thank thank you Mr Walker by the way thank you just get your full name again and your qualifications yeah it's Todd M he hay uh am a licensed professional
engineer have been so since uh 1999 in New Jersey yes I've been a bachor I got my bachelor science and civil engineering from Tempa University have a masters of Science and civil engineering from New Jersey Institute of Technology I've been licensed in the last 25 years also in
eight states I also happen to be represented at least 10 to 12 different zoning boards on the municipal side I've represented numerous different uh high-profile clients in the Private Industry and appeared before about 150 planning and zoning boards within this
state within the last 25 years all all right thank you Mr hey we accept you thank you [Music] no problem um Mr chairman if it's okay I don't know if there's a way I could go ahead and put up um on a screen or I
could mount it to a board if it's okay colorized rendering there is a way I don't know if we can make that happen you have an HDMI hookup Drive I do I have both I have everything can you put the thumb drive drawings
up and now Mr chairman I could go with the traditional matter if You' prefer we have hand out yeah for members of the public too I'd like them to be able to see it very good give me one moment if we do have another meeting which is likely if you could just let Nancy know that you've got a thumb drive and we'll
make sure that we can get everything yeah yeah is there an HDMI connection right there you you can try it and we can open up the screens but are you usual technology Guru is not here tonight Steve he's just checking to see if we
can get that on the screen for apologize that Mr chairman I want to make sure the public could see um well except we can't because the screens you know a a regular it person's night here so we're just not want me to turn that
around about if you set it up in the corner here where we can all see it that's perfect I think everyone can see that yeah and and and Mr hey just if you could be aware that members of the public are also watching at home via
YouTube so when you go and reference a drawing just you know kind of give us a you know a reference point what you're looking at where North and South is so people at home can follow along with you understood thank you and before we get too far we're going to mark this one as A1 okay and then if you just for the
record describe what A1 is please yes Council so the uh this drawing that's being depicted is actually a colorized version of the site plan and the site plan uh which is in your package is known as
cs101 and that was dated April 19th 2024 with a revision date of approximately uh on December 19th 2024 entitled revised site plan thank you
so so uh Mr chairman so what what this uh shows is a site plan of the property the subject property was commonly referred to in the past via survey that was performed by a subc consultant of ours um number eight and that's uh
number eight Third Street um Third Avenue I should say and the the property we we've visited site extensively we've looked at the property the property is an existing site uh single family home with some perous buildings as well as a
a driveway um all of that would be removed and replaced with this uh building this two-story building that we're proposing of a footprint of 4,294 ft and then there would be a parking lot with six parking space including a handicapped parking stall
and then also a 10t x 12T enclosure uh essentially for garbage um the site does onto the west side or the left side of the plan has a uh a fencing and that area would enclose basically the front yard are or the rear yard area as well
as the side yard area and on the easterly side or the right side of that plan uh there's also proposed a a vinyl fence as well that's a 6 foot vinyl fence uh it is proposed as white as we speak over the board if they choose to have something else we
certainly will listen of that um but again um this area will be fully enclosed on the side yards from the front yard projection back uh which was essentially the face of the building going back all the way to where the driveway is which is off of 4th
Avenue and uh to go ahead and talk a little bit further um about the plan um you know we picked this particular layout with the architect that this would fully function for the 10 units as well as the parking um I know six spaces we would be looking for a rsis um
exception on this um we have looked at we've discussed I think what Mr Walker said previously about the testimony of the uh of the parking uh we feel also the parking is adequate you know for for this type of facility um you'll also notice um there's a number of different
Landscaping uh the lighting is not shown but on the Landscaping side there happens to be 10 shade trees being proposed and also 14 trees as well and on the side yard which is to the lower right side of the plan there are five
shrubs as well there will be a sidewalk that will come off of Third Avenue and uh that will go to the front of the building and as you notice there is also in the lower right hand corner or the Southeastern corner of the building there is also which our architect will
describe um a deck and then also to the north of the building which is in the interior the yellow portion that is also a both a outside and also enclosed deck so that's kind of um the the the the function of the layout uh of how we laid
out the site uh to make sure we can maximize a building site fronting Third Avenue and of course putting the parking in the rear you'll also notice the line work the lower I want to say the upper leftand corner or the northest West
corner of the site that is where there'll be a but we're proposing a bior retention Basin and that will basically function to go ahead and make sure that storm water that exits the site that post construction conditions will equal
preconstruction conditions so we're proposing that as well that simply takes the storm water from the building which again I will mention is in brown and takes that back out to Third Avenue and then along the frontage of lot one which
is at the very corner of Northbridge Street and Third Avenue and the northwest corner there happens to be uh a a storm line that will go down Third Avenue to a basin existing Basin to hook up that drainage uh from that site to an
existing facility and that Basin would be rebuilt and then also that area along where the pipe will go there will also be uh and you I want to say the public can't see it but it is on your plans within the site plan there will be an area that will replace uh the asphalt
that is existing now with that pipe so that's kind of an overview of the site the lighting does meet all the levels Mr chairman I will tell you that we have found that the lighting levels are slightly above what is required by the township but we will be amending the
plan to show that the light levels will be below U your foot candle requirement in terms of what is considered maximum at the property line other than that I do not see any impacts with the residents because of the fencing because
of the extent of the Landscaping um we do have a number of variances uh that we are seeking those Varian are are actually listed uh and I will refer to cs001 which again is the cover sheet and
it is revision number two revised site plan December 19th 2024 within that there's a schedule of District regulations that regulations are specific to Zone r10a and you'll notice at the bottom of that box there
is a variant summary that Varian summy covers the following maximum floor area ratio where 0.25 is required and 0.40 is proposed our architect will discuss that a little further that if you take away what is known as the seller from the
definition of f that percentage drops it still is above what is considered a maximum um but it's slightly above and are both our architect and planner will go over that maximum impervious coverage 35% required where 42% is proposed that
is not so much of an extent of just the building itself remember this is an r10 a Zone and because you're proposing this type of structure and this type of use a parking lot is required that's why you have the extent of impervious coverage
within the property and we would be asking for relief of that and again both our architect and our planner will discuss that further there's an also a variance for minimum driveway parking lot setback from side side yard prop line which is 10t required and 4 and
1/2t proposed that is the parking stalls that lie and for the public and for the board Mr chairman on the I want to say northeast corner of the property you'll notice there's a parking area that's designated in Gray there are parking stalls along the sidey yard and are
basically a backing an existing property that is where the 4 and 1/2t lies if it was to be increased to 10 foot it would take away the function of the bio retention Basin which we're using to make sure that we can attenuate uh what
is really the storm water regulations within the township where preconditions are supposed to be equal to or less than post conditions this application yes let me interrupt you for a moment given the fact that you've got insufficient space
between your parking stalls and the property to the east why don't you put in some f some some plants a buffer well we we it's it would be difficult to do that but we could certainly see you have to remember there is a fence there there
is a there is actually a solid 6ot vinyl fence that we we're proposing there so they won't be able to see that that you know shrubs admittedly you're welcome M Mr hey what what in 2012 what was The Proposal what did you have a fence I
mean you guys already had a false sight plan approval here it's my understanding Mr chairman I I I had a chance to take a review of that and take a look at the my myself and and that approval is completely different than what this approval is with why is it different a lot of those board members are still
here uh as I understand it the building is different the functionality of the building is different so there was no fence uh for def fencing what have you I didn't see anything with respect to fence from the previous application so I did look at that to understand you know what the security was going to be for
this facility and even though it wasn't defined as a group he didn't ask you about security he asked you about buffering and understood yeah understood but yeah we wanted to take a of making sure that we could fit the parking module within the property as well as the best management practic which is the
storm water basin in the rear so what buffering did you have in the 2012 resolution I I did not prepare those plans and my office did not either I can only tell you that I reviewed it and this is completely different than that application in terms of functional go back and take a look at the 2012
application I mean that's just common sense why didn't you do that well you know when we go to put together a new plan what have you we do it based off of whatever the programming is for this site I don't look at it from what the previous application was I look at from the program
not I mean isn't that a natural place to start how are we proposing this building that's different from what this board approved 13 years ago I mean that to me that's common sense I can't understand how you just
say give the board a break I'm going to ask that you review the 2012 resolution because it was signed by Scarlett Doyle our former planner no I know Scarlet and Mr Sweeney Mrs Amin and Mr wi Deli I wasn't on the board yet it was a year later but I think it's disrespectful to the people that gave up their volunteers
that gave up their nights gave up their dinners gave up their Boy Scout Girl Scout meetings to help you to help you know this project move along so why don't we take 10 minutes it's 8:30 we're going to come back at 8:40 I'm going to ask you to review that resolution and let's get it back to at least where it
was in 2012 thank you I I give you credit for it what's that right I'm [Laughter] fine side I don't know the building was
in the other right but but the neighbor the North is North is up on that plan I don't know you know one of those
of so the HDMI port is right here and then he's got to hit a button IDE J but I don't know how many units were included in from the first time around same number 10
a conv hello how are you doing yeah I almost literally get my specialy was so like build but like I'm sorry I
didn't mean to cut you off it's just right yeah from builds FM okay all right you want me to call it give you the language to use doesn't fit into any of thees it's not a group right right
and they were able to capture that okay what happens this process when yeah yeah yeah but we've made a best efforts to go and Supply that inventory we can't control you know I just don't want to create liability
Monarch can relieve a little bit of that liability yeah I used to I'm calling this a supportive all right I'm ready right toate EnV off Market
housing it's not it's not Market base that yeah right throws were not accurate enough to stay there short and second I could do but not okay I just wanted to honor Scarlet
whatever she wrote look at the ball everywhere you guys black oh for what maybe get Burger King at there everybody need I'm going to your favorite place
tomorrow the Animal Hospital the employee I'm sure the planning board people all right we're going to come back in session it's 8:41 8:42 and Kevin could we get a quick roll call
please yeah no problem chairman fo here Mr weddelli uh here miss Amin yes Mr Sweeney here Mr Fresco here Mr bunjo
here Mr gesi here Mr seat here Mr kulak here Mr vesio here and Mr gabbit here um Mr hay where are we at here we I I did have a quick discussion with our
planner and it sounded like board on board was preferable over the vinyl that's okay with your client okay all right yeah Mr chairman I I had a chance to review the plans which I did review approximately one year ago the
resolution however I did not have a chance to review until now I'll talk about the plan changes first plan changes from the prior Stars plan that was approved back in 2000 I believe in 13 um the the footprint of the building is much different than this footprint
that's up here the footprint was actually smaller um and the configur of that building was actually um much deeper than what is shown now on the plan so that's one major change the other addition of a driveway to the want
to say southwest corner was also prevalent on the site that is also not being proposed here as well and then I think uh two more aspect or three more aspects Mr chairman um on layout with the uh want to say the driveway as well as uh the parking stalls um the styr
plan approved 10 parking stalls this is only asking for six um the reason for that is is for the accommodation of the storm water system um at the time I believe the storm water rules this was Prior before the storm water rules actually changed and that is why we are
uh going ahead and uh providing for and proposing a system that you know is consistent with what the uh New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection um seven colon8 uh requires so that is a major change from that plan to the other
um the water sanitary gas electric all pretty much so the same from our plan uh and CH no changes uh from the prior plan as well I will also mention Mr chairman I think it's very important important to mention that I noticed in the star's resolution which I didn't have a chance
to look at one of the big changes was also Landscaping we are proposing an extensive amount of landscaping as opposed to the Landscaping that was in that resolution that resolution only called for four trees we are proposing approximately 24 trees as well as five
bushes so that a substantial change defense and and offense that is correct but I want to make sure that also you understand as well as the board that in the prior plan the Landscaping was not on the side yards was not around the building envelope it was only in
strategic places on that approved plan which I do have up on my screen I'm reviewing that um I also wanted to mention as well there were particular variances that were approved or allowed for um the variance which I was going to get into and I apologize this Mr
chairman because I wanted to finish that up and that was for the parking stall whiff on the design waiver summary um the prior resolution also allowed for a 9ot proposal in terms of wi um so this application does the same as well um we
would ask for Relief as residential site Improvement standards do call for a 9- foot width as well as well as an 18t length um so the last variance Mr chairman that was not discussed which uh would be okay with you I'd like to discuss and that's number four uh under
the variant summary on that sheet CS 00001 um and that is with respect to tree replacement um the amount of trees if you look at the Landscaping plan and I want to turn the board's attention to that um if you look at CS
20001 which is the landscape plan with a revised site plan layout of number two uh December 19th 2024 that plan shows the Landscaping plan in detail it shows the plant scheduled to the lower leftand corner of the sheet it also shows the tree
replacement summary if you look at the tree replacement summary you will notice that there are replacement trees requirement for 2-in caliper trees as well as replacement trees required for 4-in caliper trees that requirement for 2in required 2in caliper is 38 trees the
replacement trees required for 4-in caliper is 20 for replacement trees provided we're asking for uh 14 trees as well as for 4in caliper we're looking for 10 trees um Mr chairman the reason for the relief is as you can see from
the rendering you'll notice that because the fact that we already have an extensive amount of shade trees of the property it's almost very difficult to place that remainder of trees within that property we do need the buo retention Basin to be open we do need to
be able to function uh for the storm water management for the site Mr hay if I may if I might looking at the resolution ution that was passed back in 2012 M it refers to number of parking spaces I'm
reading parking spaces reduced by two to a total of 12 the same number of residents that today why you get by with six if you needed 12 for the same number of
residents last time again I I I want to mention the fact that after reviewing the two other sites with uh Mr Walker and looking at how many parking stalls would be utilized at the site the re reason for the request of relief is
because of the fact that most of the folks that will be in this particular apartment is as was defined by Mr Walker are not going to have transportation are not going to have vehicles it's a little bit different this time proposed back in 2012 yeah I can't speak to Mr Styers
because I'm going to say it again I'm not the one that did the testimony nor did I sign it and seal those plans um I only understand based on what this particular program was meant for I also will mention the fact that I think that there was an opportunity back then to
look at maybe the storm water a little bit differently but from what Mr styes prop proposed it was based at a whole different function of storm water management regulations we're in a different territory now being able to provide this type of system and this is the only place where we could provide it
in terms of the relief that we got on the the site or we were able to go provide oh it's storm water that's responsible for the smaller number of parking spots that you need today as opposed to what you told us you needed 12 years ago is that correct again I did
not testify 12 years ago I I I understand that but you know for storm water management purposes and what Mr Walker told me about the programing of this and the fact he has two other facilities of Bridgewater which I'm very familiar with I had told him I said I think we'll be okay and be
able to show that we do need this variance we do need this type of system uh this type of system is very prevalent in storm water management design guidelines throughout New Jersey and we felt it was best app
group home where this is theend living grou home that's why Eed here and we felt that having more certainly Mr hey you're you're creating a credibility
issue I'm looking at what you're proposing today compared with what you told us you needed 12 years ago very very different tell me why I don't get it yeah it's that one
I was sitting here and I didn't hear much about the differences between a group home and this apartment building you're proposed let's bring Mr Walker back I I have a comment M Mrs A Min Mrs A Min hold on Mr hay could you
accommodate more parking spots if you had a lower threshold of water management like you had in 2012 so basically what I heard was you saying that there's a higher threshold higher requirement for water management Now versus the 2012 case and that's
necessitated the reason that you had to remove parking from the site that was what yeah that was probably the main reason Mr chairman absolutely okay do we need Mr Walker back I I I really would like to get you through you've seen our agenda sure I'd like to
keep pressing forward if possible why are we calling Mr Walker back as lovely as as a man as he isine that's fine yeah I I do have a a comment and a question see the way your building is laid out you have
two offices in basement uh conference room and uh there are 10 Apartments so if you get visitors for those people who live in the apartments plus the office workers and all that I don't think six
spaces are enough uh from uh that perspective from um my viewpoint six is not in the F we don't want uh people to be parking on the street I'm going to defer to our architect to answer that as well as our
planner M Mr Walker if you could just grab this mic real quick yeah yeah test will you have office workers at your project facility here the I'll start with difference between the group home and and the perfect the
apartment complex with a group home there's a tremendous amount of Staffing you have case managers you have a behavioral health staff you have the prosperity Independent Living skills um workers on staff at the group home with the
apartment complex you do not have that level of Staffing so you're talking three four times level Staffing for a group home that you need for Department complex at the department complex the Staffing that we will have
there will park over at 4th Avenue I I I can't speak to the plans from 10 years ago maybe they anticipated that the staff would park at that facility because it was a group home um that
level of Staffing four times level Staffing for a group home as compared to a apartment complex is not required under the current plan you're welcome Mr chairman I think that concludes all of the aspects that are in
the plans obviously if there's anything else that the board has questions with I'm willing to take questions yeah we're going to have to talk about water management and um the bio retention Basin and you know basically I'm going to open it up to Mr Burr how you want to handle this and you
know again we had a you know a full sight plan approval in 2012 he reviewed it what we have now how can we make the neighbors feel safe how can we make the board feel safe about what's being proposed um why don't we just open it up let's start going through it uh sure I I
I have a couple questions for Mr Haye but I'll just give the board my take on the drainage design quickly um I would say that the drainage layout that's proposed with this application is vastly uh improved from the prior application
and mainly due to some of the changes in regulations um there was not that I recall a bio retention or detention Basin proposed on the prior approval so that in and of itself is a huge Improvement um right now all of the the
drainage or or the water flows from fourth a down to third AV and I think we have some ponding water along third AV there is I believe a seasonal spring um near the existing driveway that I've seen photos of I haven't seen it in
person but I do think something is going on out there but by and large I think the drainage proposal that's currently being proposed um M much improved and I think it's going to improve the existing conditions if this application is
approved of course like anything else um facility is going to need to be maintained you know they have a detention Basin with vegetation I think there's an underd drain system there's pervious Pavement in the parking lot um
so all of those features are going to need to have a high level of Maintenance and the applicant's going to have to put an operation and maintenance manual together um for my review and and ultimately um be filed with the county on the deed of the property so uh that's
an important factor but yeah to just just to give give the board my my take I think the drainage plan overall um is sufficient um there's a few you know few few tweaks here and there I I I picked up a couple of you know minor issues in
the storm water report that I can talk to Mr hay about won't change um the end result of what's being proposed now um I did mention there the existing driveway gravel driveway that exists on the
Westerly side of the of the of the existing home does look like there is a spring out there some type of groundwater seage that does spill over onto third AV one of the questions I was going to have is is there a way that the applicant can take a look at that and
perhaps try to manage that so that it's not causing an icing issue in the winter time get that connected into the existing storm sewer on the street I think that's going to be a big Improvement um that's one question I have I don't know if that's something
that Tod you can yeah M Mr bur I can answer that yeah if if there is a I want to say a perch water condition or some type of you know a a a subsurface water condition to manage that as you know an underd drained system would be appropriate uh a
system with such as a French drain obviously with some type of piping that could actually go ahead and connect back into uh the main pipe that flows the Third Avenue uh yeah we will provide that and we will uh review that and we would accept that as a condition of approval very good
um and just to be clear as well the bio retention Basin that's being constructed or being proposed in the rear that's to capture the runoff from the new structure correct the new 4,000 plus square foot home that is correct building right so there will not be and
then and then the parking lot in the rear will also be managed through the drainage in that small parking lot such that there won't be any runoff leaving impervious surfaces from this project correct being managed yes corre yes Mr bur all that is correct
all and it is shown in our storm water report for board reference as well as public reference the building will be captured by the bio retention Basin the impervious uh and I should say perious Paving uh will capture all impervious area within the rear of the property and
let me ask you while we were on the topic of comparing your current proposal to the 2012 approval from a lot coverage perspective can you Todd just touch based on the numbers that were approved previously compared to what you're
currently proposing if you give me more moment I'll find those numbers Bill while he's looking for that what you were mentioning before were you saying tie in the roof um leaders underground to third no so so I wanted
confirmation that all of the new impervious coverage on this project gets tied into new drainage features on the property so the new building the roof runoff is going to be directed directly to that new detention
Basin what I wanted to make sure of is there seems to be a spring of some sort perched water some some type of groundwater condition in the front of the existing home what I heard as a condition of approval the applicant
would connect or or I guess capture by way of a French drain or an under drain that water and tie that in into the street drainage so two issues the the management of the water on site and then the conveyance of that that ground water along the frontage Mr
I have a question um in terms of the natural spring what type of flow rate are we looking at flow rate yeah I don't think there's much flow rate at all to be honest with you I think from what I've seen in photos it just looks like a very small amount now I could be wrong I
haven't seen I haven't seen it in person but what I've seen in photos is just water accumulating at the edge of Haven it I up you can see a little bit ofing along a very slow seepage I think it's more of a nuisance
safety type issue as opposed to a heavy flow of of water where it's really impacting properties to my knowledge thank you I do have the answer to your question you might uh I just want to let you know so the plan that I'm referencing is the previous styes plan
that was approved back in 20133 in the zoning data table uh which was located in the right center of the sheet um there is a line for maximum approved lot coverage required 35% at the time with the existing lots for and 18 um it looks
like that was before there was some type of a lot merger um that happened to be 12.9% the proposed impervious coverage at that time of approval uh was uh 50.7% uh as you know with this proposal
we are proposing 42.1 16% so that's nearly an 88.5% reduction in impervious area Todd can you equate that into square footage sorry to make you do math on on the spot an 8% reduction and coverage would
amount to it's nearly 1,800 square feet 17 to 1800 square feet ruction and coverage okay so that in and of itself is a benefit to your to your design and the drainage design that's being proposed having less coverage correct
that is correct and to take it further it appears that from the original styes plan the drainage was going towards uh Fourth Avenue and not Third Avenue at the at the time of approval okay um in in one of your prior plan
revisions your driveway access actually came off of third a through the course of making some re divisions now we have the parking lot with your access to four half correct give us an overview on why that change was made was it in an effort
to reduce the coverage or address some drainage issues or was there another another reason why that was made it was done it with reasoning for the resident sake to obviously go ahead and take it off a Third Avenue and put it in Fourth Avenue so that there would be also
functionality between the existing group home across the street since they'll be shared staff as well as concealing the driveway if you look at um one of the other facilities it's very similar to the other facilities in terms of where the staff park behind a building where also you'll find a lot of the impervious
area and we have a site like that in Bridgewater as well so we felt that was best but it did reduce the amount of impervious area that is correct okay um your plans show you propose utility connections sanitary sewer um I think I
believe gas coming off of third a and then I think your water connection comes off of fourth a yes that is correct and that is the same as the sty plan and approval back in 2013 with your sewer connection you show
a pavement repair area in front of your proposed building that is correct which is a typical trench size pavement repair that is correct what I will note though is that that sanitary sewer on third AV is anywhere from 12 to 14 ft deep so in
the course if this is approved your your utility connection and then pment repair is very likely going to be much larger I wanted to make you aware of that and make sure that the applicant would um do the proper pavement repair whatever is
necessary to um like I said rep repair the pavement in front of the building if it's okay with you as a condition we will revise the plan to show the current TR with based on the depth that would be perfect thank you you're
welcome any signage being proposed no there is no signage proposed and any any building signage will be discussed by Mr Buckman his testimony as architect um lighting I think what I what I recall
you testifying to was the exterior lighting where you are exceeding the current ordinance standards you're going to revise your plans to make sure that any exterior lighting is now in compliance with the ordinance is that a fair statement that's correct and it would be two different ways of doing
that one is by readjusting the ballast or going ahead and eliminating that light or moving that light away from the property line okay and all of the exterior lighting will be cut off uh down shielded pointed away from any of the adjacent Residential Properties yes
and as additional condition we will provide a note to say as such okay uh last question I have is just um the dumpster refu enclosure enclosure area at the corner of the parking lot in your
opinion that's appropriately located um a garbage truck can get in to the parking lot and access that or how how will that function yes that is correct um so it looking at cs101 with a revised site layout of December 19th
2024 uh we did address your letter with respect to that with the garbage truck turning template an appropriate uh turning template showing um a waste collection truck that does show in the upper leftand corner of that particular plan how a garbage truck will maneuver
in and out of the driveway to get to the garbage uh area um that dumpster enclosure could be four yard dumpsters it could be something maybe two two yard dumpsters uh but a garbage truck can safely Traverse in and out based on that turning exhibit and that's going to be
huler and they're going to come however frequent is necessary that is correct very good I think um I think Mr chairman that's all I have I don't know if if you or any of the board members have any questions for me I want to open it back up to the board if they have any storm water questions or either Mr Burr
or Mr Mr hay I have a question about storm water but um on your plan so you're showing on the I guess easterly sidey yard that there's an existing brick wall over the property line you see that the northern
side of it uh you're saying it's on the northeast corner Council yeah at northeast corner yes so and then you're showing the fence kind of like right through that wall what's what we could put as a condition Council to go ahead and work with the property owner to
obviously relocate that uh obviously dur construction that's something that we will have to do and we could put a condition into that and we'll also revise the plan to show it as such okay and if there's any proper building department approvals that are needed because of Any wall that's over 4 foot
in height per New Jersey Code we'll go ahead and also put a note on that to say that we'll get proper building department approvals for that is that a retaining wall there now yes only about a foot high right yeah but you you know I don't know the extent of the depth there we have not done we've done
limited geot technical work and environmental work on the property okay Mr chairman minor comment on the lighting I notice for the driveway you have like a commercial light fixture with a 20 F you know 20 foot tall pole there I mean this
is a residential Zone could could we could you change that type of lighting to be more residential we not so high so you know we sort of cast that light on the Jason properties we we could look at the height of yeah that's correct you can look at the height of the poles and
what have you as well as changing out the ballast and the light level lels that is something that we could explore and we could work with your engineer to make sure that it's acceptable within the area right but it's a very commercial life fixture I mean this is a residential zone are there residential
type life fixtures that would be to be honest with you the in a lot of different apartment buildings which I've done in Multistate um there really isn't they do you can make them kind of want to say invisible and what I mean is visible make them very minimalistic where you don't really see them and
they're shorter and that's something that I think could work with Mr Burr on to come up with something that makes sense for that area okay thank you you good with that Mr Burr okay great all right any other board
questions all right Catherine I have one more question absolutely thank you Todd I I don't know if you can answer this but um I'm gonna ask anyway so going back to the 2012 approval and I want to
your attention to condition number seven so when when this application was before the prior zoning board there was a condition of approval that the applicant was going to construct sidewalk along fourth a from the rear of
this property out to North Bridge Street I believe I I think forth AB only has sidewalk on the Northerly side of the road is that something that um the applicant would be willing to honor we would be willing to honor that because
of the fact that we already obviously putting against uh concrete within our property um yeah the survey the current survey which we did within the last year um with Mr Burr is referring to does not show sidewalks but if we have to provide them within our Frontage and may be a
connection Point yeah we we would provide that catch Bill thank you that's that's good stuff we we really do want to honor that 2012 agreement in every way shape and form because that board did convene they did have multiple meetings and they spent their time on it it's important it was important then
it's an important point now no problem Katherine thank you um as far as the I know you answered some questions from Mr Burr regarding the trash enclosure and the and the garbage truck circulation um and just looking across the street at
the trash enclosure at the other property it it is um fenced in and it's not in great condition is there any chance that instead of using fencing around there it could be a masonry uh trash enclosure absolutely if that and again you know this was an open
discussion with the board to determine if they would want to have something other than uh some type of vinyl fence but masery uh in my experience that is uh simply another alternative if the board wishes that uh I would just need to know what the Finish is um so that I
can make sure that um our you know our applicant knows and our Builder knows how to price it out the Finish should match the or complement the materials of the building best possible um the only reason I offer ma masonry is it's just going to last
longer particularly when trash cans are coming in and out of there I mean I looked at the condition of the other one across the stre it's not in great shape um and this will probably help maintain it over a longer period of time we we should be able to provide uh Mr chairman I just would defer our architect to maybe talk a little bit more about what
type of treatment could be there to put in a resolution okay that's f um I know that we looked back at the um the prior resolution um I don't think it gave a lot of detail um as far as where the Landscaping was I think some of the
Landscaping was around the dumpster enclosures where they called out those four our variety but I think they were offering some um landscaping or at least they gave a nod to the idea that the park the variance from the distance of the driveway between the property line um which very similar to this one is
about 5.2 feet and it seemed like they were offering Landscaping which satisfied the board um I know that there's a fence between there I know that the Gap is probably only four feet and it looks like there might be a brick wall but if there's any chance to put some some plantings um along that property line I think it might do some
service to the um the neighboring property there simply because the headend lights and everything um you know I think it might offer some nice some nice screening for them you talking about the the frontage on Third Avenue or yeah between the two prop between lot three to the East and the and the head
in parking okay well remember you have a six- foot vinyl fence there and board on board fence on board board on board right but it's Bo it board on board and that you think that'll be satisfactory to to to screen yes okay much yes okay
then that's fine um and I I I think I the rest of my comments are going to be for the architect very good thank you members of the public questions on the engineering testimony you heard please just get your name and address
please Bill Linville 1021 say that again Bill lynville 1021 tulo Farm Road this is not my neighborhood but a close family friend owns the house next door and thank you for your service I
know being here these long evenings is uh is really giving up a lot um very quickly third does not have a water line um the hydrants are on the other
side of bridge street and over on Chasta wouldn't water be appropriate in front of the wood frame building when you mean water do you mean potable water you mean storm water pable and and and hydrant
the regular water line the regular water line is mimicking the same approval that we did back in 2013 going to Fourth Avenue but now you have a 10 unit apartment building quite a different application um it's not that much
different to be quite honest with you um you know even one extra unit is not going to cause cause for concern in terms of having to put let's say two extra water lines in or what have you we also looked into where available water would be and we were told to use the
Fourth Avenue water meain and that would be by the fire fire department or it will be required by based on whatever the municipal Authority says we need to connect into we did talk to uh I believe we talked to
the township a little bit about that and we were told to use that line do we have a letter from the chief on this project we have not gotten a letter Mr chairman we have not seen one and we we have not seen a letter you request one uh we we always make a request but no we have not received one
we'll adhere to whatever requirement there is all right well that's going to be something at some point that we need the chief to weigh in on on this thing you know I think it's a great question this resident has and we want to make sure that the chief puts on record that this is safe and it's appropriate for firefighting absolutely okay thank you
you got it any other members oh just need your name and address again yes uh I'm Karm 9633 Avenue so so you proposed the this's a two story
structure what is the what what is the high what the could you just talk in the microphone please the microphone in front of you yeah the what the height of this property from the ground you mean you're talking about the height of the building what have you um
so the building height right now that's being proposed of 34.6 Ft okay um in in in term of the in term of the construction time how what how long is the construction from start to finish
you anticipate that that will take I'm going to defer that to the architect because the architect would be able to answer that question okay and do you know when the the construction will begin because I know you know this
propos back in 2012 or 13 right um just just curious from my point that's testimony I believe that Mr Walker had offered before that's that's all I have right thank you sir anyone else going once going twice
all right Mr hail your next witness Please Mr ha David Buckman [Music] yeah you're good in that department I uh got a bachelor of architecture uh last century in 1985 from Pratt
Institute I've been um managing partner or U main owner of Buckman Architectural Group for since 88 um I uh I've been before many boards I believe been before this board but it
was a long time ago so I don't I'm not sure but um I've been doing this a long time I I am I'm licensed in like about 12 states of which New Jersey is uh is my main one and is current and I'm uh uh
New Jersey 11806 all right thank you we accept you as an expert in architecture uh all right um Buckman if you could take us through the uhst structure that's going to be here floor plans elevations and I believe you also have
aor R yes Steve we're going to mark that one A2 please and then Mr Buckman once we Mark that A2 would you just describe for the record what that is yes yeah but tell yeah thank you
okay thank you okay I hate to make you juggle but there's a handheld mic there if you're going to be standing near the your exhibit then you can use that
yeah Kevin why don't we sacrifice your mic there hello hello there we go thank you okay so I'm going to uh walk through the building and uh I'm going to use sk1 SK
2 and sk3 uh which which were submitted and you I hope you guys can see I'll stand over here so um basically uh this building has
uh Apartments uh on the first floor and apartments on the second floor I'm going to stand here so one would walk in the main level of the first floor indicated as proposed first floor there's a front porch for the building which would face
Third Avenue that's uh to the South and then to the north there's a secondary or another entry into the building off the the uh back the covered deck in the rear and this is in the same orientation as a
site plan so the parking is on this side passages is part of the uh V visions and Pathways complex that would be up here the offices and the uh and the group home and then across the street from
third is uh my place which is another is a group home that has five five homes as you has been testified this will have 10 Apartments studio apartments affordable and uh I think you've heard testimony on on the residents who will
be there uh the first floor we show the front of the building a small porch and off that a space labeled Lobby basically that's where the the the mail would come in we have an area for
packages uh then we have the stairs to go upstairs as well as an elevator uh also going upstairs and and downstairs by the way to the seller we have a small office here it's not intended that it would be staffed but it might be needed
once in a while uh there will be some services offered to the residents here and uh that's a space it could be we also have spaces in the seller that that could handle that uh when there's there when there is Services needed um and
then a small area here we just labeled it security we don't intend that that would be staffed but we figured for growth and just we put we put that little area there uh to if if we ever need control of who's coming in and out of the
building uh move the second floor we have six Apartments there oh by the way we have four on the first floor we have six upstairs basically that's all that's up there two stairs one on either side of the corridor and then the elevator
and we have each unit each unit is about the same uh they range they're they're about uh over 600 square feet uh they range from 588 to 622
square feet and uh those are bigger good considerably larger than the uh the past approv plans of 2012 that is one reason that the building was made considerably bigger it had to for regulations of of the the
each unit has changed since then uh plus these are apartment and not group home so that was another reason uh the building got bigger and that's it for those two floors if we
go down to the SE seller plan we thought it made sense to have a full seller uh and uh especially since it did not count for the F it made sense and once you build something you can't go back and
add a seller later so it makes sense it's a it's an easy way to get more space uh we do have we we have a requirement for storage space we have a requirement for utilities and an electric machine room as well and so we
have all that we wanted a laundry room we for these uh these folks we and then we have two offices they're large mainly because there was space left over that could be made smaller but it was space left over um and
they're big offices but we we show them as offices because we never know they have they might need a social worker they might need this there's all kinds of need because visions and Pathways does offer that service and this is part of their larger complex so the staff is
at the other other uh in some of the other buildings anyway so if anyone here needed Services they could do it here we and then we'd have some private space which needs to to be private the previous
application had some small offices as well they also had we have an activity room here uh that would be more that would be for group activities um uh and sometimes maybe group it's it's unknown what all
the needs would be but um thinking of growth it could be some uh group health health to get togethers and and yeah we lost it I have a question for
you the the lower level of the building what is the height height of the ceiling heart to the ceiling for the basement basement or seller whatever you call it what is the
height it should be less than 7 ft that that's what okay okay my question is regarding yeah the ceiling height for the lower level yeah so that whether it should be included in the floor area ratio not
based upon ceiling height it has to be less than 7 ceiling height yeah it would be 8ot ceilings less than S feet or is it no no less than 7 feet no no no and that's what make sure because I couldn't find
it on the drawing so I'm sorry I could not find it on the drawing so that's why I had a question yeah we have a 10 foot floor to floor uh we'd have to when we do construction documents that would certainly we have to be over 7 feet anyway but we wouldn't be low we
wouldn't be that low anyway so 8 ft um we might get more than that depending on when we do the construction drawings uh what it works out to be with 10t uh floor to floor generally we get certainly 8 feet sometimes we can get 86 depending on
the uh is the uh layout of the units the apartments does it allow two beds to be put in there uh so you can put in two people in in
there can you can you hear me can you hear me now okay uh is the layout of the apartment such that uh you can put two
bedrooms uh two beds in in uh that apartment is that space you but uh is a space laid out that you could put two
okay I mean uh if someone comes two people come and then occupy that apartment uh we don't have any control I guess well I I if I understand the conditions that we've been kind of
accumulating one of them was going to be that there'd be a maximum of 10 residents in the building correct and each of the units would be single occupancy single occupancy right I our board attorney a question on that if Vision Pathways
does say sell the property for some reason is the next owner held to 10 Single use part part of the deed restriction yes okay thank you all right so the exterior of the
building um we are proposing the uh we have well we designed I know one of the questions was the design and how it fits into the neighborhood we want this to fit into the neighborhood which we have uh five other homes on East on both on
uh on on uh the North and South yeah if you could just talk into that Mike I'm sorry I I just texted the mayor and asked him please get us wireless mics in the next budget sorry about that I I should be able to yell louder but can everyone
hear me yeah yes okay so Fourth Avenue and Third Avenue both have H five other home phones homes on them uh and then plus uh the the other parts of the visions and Pathways complex which would be passages
which consists of two buildings and is the office part and the apartment the uh group home part and then my place on on third uh which houses five and that's a group home so all those 10 Building
Homes around there all have uh except for one which is a hip roof they all have gable roof so we decided be best to put a gable roof um what we like about that is is it it's angled away from the street and so it doesn't look seem as
tall um and uh so that's what we've done with the design you can see here and uh the materials we using are typical res more residential materials for most homes which is like wood siding this we
propose Hardy Board Siding I'm sure as a board you're probably familiar with that it looks like wood siding it's actually a cement ious board so it's safer in case of fire uh and it's also low maintenance doesn't have to be painted every few years it looks like wood
siding it's very common in residential uh homes on buildings so uh we have the front porch and we have details details would be around the windows and and the trim and the uh the pilers uh very
residential uh look and that's what we went for to to fit into this neighborhood bless you um so we've got the height the building Heights party board material and now as I said I refer to
the color rendering and we did it we may as well show it uh that that helps uh you visualize what it would look like uh the other materials are all pretty much residential what you'd find on most single family houses uh the asphalt
shingles on the on the roof uh and uh and the wood trim uh and it was mention uh about the the dumpster As I understood it's requested to be a vinyl to match the building is that is that correct I think she said
masonary I think we'd be able to do that yes that's Mr Buckman would you comment on the mass of this proposed building and how it specifically Compares with the other homes immediately adjacent yeah um
immediately adjacent and in in fact uh these are both on pretty short roads Third Avenue only goes to the end to it butts in it's a they're both dead end roads one uh is only one block and it butts into
287 there's five homes there they're all Gable roofs so we matched the massing uh to be the same as all those there is one uh one roof that's a hip roof on third um um but I don't see it's a very
similar look for as far as massing on Fourth Avenue it goes a couple blocks but it also it dead ends to dead ends into a park large parking lot which is a large apartment building I believe eight stories high uh so it's basically a dead
end there too there are five other homes on on that uh on Fourth that uh all do have Gable roofs and will be similar this will be similar to those much bigger but similar well I'm concerned about the much bigger aspect that you
just mentioned mass of this building I don't care about the Gable roofs mass of this Building compared to those immediately adjacent that's what I'm looking for oh okay well massing is is very similar but it is larger in scale just because it's a larger it is an
apartment building I'm trying to come to grips with how the mass of this building compares to the immediately adjacent okay I can say I do know I I didn't mention measure any of the homes but
there're single family homes I can say right across the street on Fourth is passages and that is uh a 5,000 square foot um square footage and the massing is about the same uh two and two stories
high and um and this is 8,000 SQ foot footprint it is larger but um the height is the same and and the height is actually the same of a lot of the homes the two twostory homes um what about the single family homes
immediately adjacent to this proposed building this this is a larger building that is correct the scale is is is a good bit good amount bigger of course the property is a lot bigger thank you I hope did I not did I
answer that I mean no you didn't but that's fine I know I notice your plans have stairs that one stair goes up to the attic um I'm sorry one of your stairs appears to go up to the attic what is the attic the attic will just be um um
HVAC equipment it's not habitable so okay so the residents wouldn't have access to the the attic space okay and just utility space that utility well really duct duct work Comm area the the hallway it won't be meant to be used
really for except for uh maintenance okay is the um building sprinklered in your proposed design uh it's not it does not need by code it but sometimes the fire inspectors want them to be and in which
case we would comply with whatever they wish I don't we did not get the any review yet but okay sounds good a question for you while you're talking about this is it going to be Universal Air Conditioning Heating or individual air conditioning um individual individual so everybody canol that's our
intention um yes individual so they'll have control it'll be kind of like um well kind of like a hotel would be or or other small small studio and a small apartment what type of air condition are
you going to have then it would be a a a unit that has both heating elements and cooling we would have a a separate system for the the hallways and the other the the B the common area spaces the stairs the bathroom that's the
offices uh and and downstairs great thanks can um I just want to get confirmation that the seller space will there's no plan to ever make that into additional units the seller space would
could not have uh any housing and no dwelling at all or in the future correct make that a condition yes thank you no problem making that a condition any other board questions or
professionals thank you um I I think to answer mr's questions about massing I don't know if you're asking for what's surrounding it but the
East if you're looking from third looking to the east you've got a ranch on the other corner on Fourth you've got a ranch so massing wise the ranches are much lower they may be wide like this one but they're lower and then to the West you've got more narrow Lots so they
have the entryway on the narrow side of the home um so they may they're they're longer than they are wide on the Lots because of the configuration of the lots and that's more interior towards um I think Shasta
over there so um it's going to look different but I think it'll be an improvement to to what's there on third um but it will it will look different and it will look much bigger than the other homes that are there right now
thank you um as far as the I don't know if it was touched upon um I know it was something that was provided in the supplemental review memo but um can you describe the change to the categorization of the the basement area did anything change about the basement
use as it was programmed on the plan on the floor plans um and then you know how how did you come to the conclusion about categor changing the category of that the uh the basement it's always been a seller un very often the word basement
is just used for below grade but uh sellers are are different and by building code different uh and that they're more more below grade than they're they're at least least half the floor below grade as a seller a basement
is is usually less than half half of a grade half the uh height of the grade we always intended this to be a seller because the intention was to get all the programming to fit for this building and all the regulation changes since
2012 the building had to get considerably bigger and um and the seller was at at the time you know was our understanding if the seller would not count for the F so it was always intended to be a seller once this
redesigned and and coming back to the board was necessary so so nothing to answer I'm sorry Kathleen that nothing changed except the designation of of seller okay just so the board knows the original plans that were submitted and reviewed back last year when it was
originally to be heard um included an F of 67 which since the plans have been revised dropped to 0 40 effectively with no change to the building as the architect just mentioned it was really just a reclassification of the basement to a seller um and
so as he just stated per per building code that's kind of how the definitions in the ordinance read as well about how to classify a seller in a basement what I'm curious about is is does the building code capture use categories in
a seller um or limit them in any way such as do the use for for occupied space like offices does it have any egress requirements um that are different from maybe a basement classification no as as long as it meets
the the size and the construction and all the if if if it meets for building permits uh there's no other other classification there's no other needs to it so the answer is no okay we would have obvious we would definitely meet
all the all the code requ requirements okay um so just so the board knows you know I it's it's a used space normally it's a it's a it's an additional story that I would count towards the F in calling it a seller but still using it for everything it was when they
called it a basement uh it technically is more below grade so it meets the code the definition in our code for seller the F calculation excludes sellers so that's where they where the calculation F comes I would
still keep it uh in consideration by this board that there is a an entire use use story below grade that will contribute to not not to the massing of the building because the massing building is all above grade but um it will contribute to the use of the
property um and as you know testified to there was potential for use in that basement in addition to the departments um and so um I I would I would maybe um not go down that path of using it for
anything besides the the residents of the area because it will only generate additional um traffic and parking needs so I would be careful that that area and I recommend this to the board be restricted simply to the use of the um
apartment to the users um because there are two pretty large offices down there and I I know across the street here that that's going to cover this problem yeah no problem at all at all with that okay yeah I just don't want to see office space start to get
utilized by employees outside of this apartment use this residential use and have parking issues kind of arise because of something like that so we're going to write a stipulation that's going to cover that no no problem great that was my big ticket item on
architecture so I'm glad we put that to bed um as far as the r the colored rendering this is the first time I'm seeing the colored rendering um Can can you describe if those colors are um just for display purposes or is that kind of what's been landed on they're well both
they're for display area we came up with these colors they're they're complimentary to passages which is not that color more of a yellow but but also these happen to be the logo colors for visions and Pathways and we thought it might be kind of cool to use those but um I'll defer to the Border on if they
want to have any input on the aesthetic and and the color of the materials um I'm not particularly thrilled with green and blue but um I think for it the architecture and the materials and colors should
should help conform with the neighborhood it will be probably the most massive building on this side of Third Street third AV and I think that they should keep that in consideration to help with the massing and having brightly colored materials may not help
with that would you be willing to work with our Township planner coming up with something that is appropriate to the neighborhood great for full B prior bill just pointed out to me that the prior approval called for Earth Tones called for what Earth
Tones we'll be happy to go with Earth Tones okay thank you um I do not believe I have anything else for this witness okay M of the public questions on the architectural testimony you've heard what oh I'm sorry Bill Burr I
right over you that's all right sorry if we were just trying to move along I'm not I don't have I don't have much um you described the building you agreed as a condition to work with with Catherine on the coloration of of the building no problem describe quickly for the board I
think your layout also shows a covered deck and then an open deck can you quickly just give the board an overview of what they consist of their sizes and materials and yes the deck uh Mr bur is is referring to is towards the parking lot on the
north side of the building and this is a small deck uh in which maybe 60% of it is covered it would be under so the sun wouldn't be hitting anyone there or rain uh and then there's a a part of it that
is open like just a regular deck uh that would also be the rear entrance to the building so anyone who is coming from the parking lot uh would enter probably enter that that area
um it's kind of will will the decks be um composite material pressure treated hasn't the has the material been selected yet no it hasn't been even thought of yet until we didn't want to presume we'd get approved here but but um it would be a composite deck chances are yeah that's usually what we use for
uh for residential decks like this and you touched on my other question which was access to the building for tenants and visitors there's a front doorway with a with a covered porch off of third AV that is there also a rear entrance off the decks from the fourth half side
from the parking lot side that is correct on the the the uh South Side uh would be a front porch it's F we say front cuz that's really the front of the building the address is off of third and that's where the mail would come in that's where uh probably on Halloween that's
the door they'd come to uh U but I I would imagine the rear the the the the door off the deck gets used probably more by the residents that's where uh they'd be walking from from the bus uh
from bridge and and uh North Bridge uh but there are yes there are two two uh two um entry spots oh and by the way there are two doors on the East one on the east and one on the West Side those are off the stairs those would be for emergency
eress only on the east and west yeah and just operationally as far as how the main access points are going to function will they be self-closing and locking doors will the tenants have like a key fob to
in and out how how do you envision yeah we most buildings like this today are key fobs uh yes they would they would uh probably be self-closing they're not fire doors per se but we'd probably have them self-closing uh certainly locks and
key fobs is kind of the way to go these days with buildings like this um last question I have for you is regarding lighting exterior lighting and I I don't I don't see detail on your plans or on
the rendering but on the penon plans it looks like there's facade lights being proposed around the exterior of the building am I reading that right that looks like quite a few of them is
that looks like a building mounted facade light there's one two 3 4 5 6 7 8 n but we do propose lighting but I'm it wasn't intended to go around we would have we would need a light over each door that's the exit doors on the east
and west uh we would have lighting at the entrance but in this case we have a porch and we have a covered deck I I imagine most of the lighting would be in the sofits of those so you you would agree to a condition that any exterior building mounted lighting uh would be
just for code purposes Code Compliance purposes and and function or under a canopy yes you know down is correct we don't have decorative Lighting on there's not going to be anything on the building itself correct except the exit lights got it thank you yep thank you
thanks Mr chairman thank you Bill give me a question um I'm actually good Bill had answered the question on security so how does the um they get the mail and stuff inside then well we'd have um we haven't picked out exact how the you know what kind of mail but it would be a
a mailbox that you no but can the mail you have a place for packages and the mail thing inside yeah would' be in we'd have it inside we have how would the male person get inside we have a through wall you can he doesn't have to come in to do it they can open it from the back
but but um he puts it in the front we also uh would have a package room that would have a door from the inside and a door from the porch from the outside okay so they wouldn't sit outside all day and stuff like that who's that oh the packages no we don't want that nope
we'd want them under locking key or fob so that uh people will pick them up themselves when they when ready when they're home members of the public you had a question please come on up just need your name name name and
address name is Yen hang hu n g my last name I have some question for you okay no problem stuff for the Stu is that gas Stu or electric Stu and all we haven't got that far but we we
figured would be a gas stove in each of the there'd be a there would be a stove in each in each apartment and for heating what kind of heating heat pump or be a heat pump system it would be would be um both Cooling and and and
heat that's heat pump yeah heat pump yep do you consider use the SAR panel you know that's was subsidi by a we would would love to use solar panels uh something that I actually am a lead
professional who loves Sol feels we should be using more solar than we are in this world but um that will be looked into uh as far as uh you yes you are you have a good it was nice to see all your solar panels out there thank you
um we would love to do that we haven't it until this approval you know until it's it's going we we will look certainly into that we do have some uh some South orientation of of the pitch so it could work for solar and there
aren't too many uh adult trees so I think we we could and Bri Bridge uh visions and Pathways would love for for bridge house to have some solar as well you can see we have enough smart
detector and also Caro more absolutely by by code we we need that yes thank you please come forward Bill Linville on the ground
floor and I looked at the application some time ago so I don't know whether there are any changes when I looked at it it's two offices a conference room closets storage room room two bathrooms elevator access laundry room kitchenet and
activity room now by changing the nomenclature you were able to take this out of the F correct but it's still in addition to 4,410 square ft of a massive building
and a fully used commercial use in the lower level a little disingenuous I would you're absolutely correct in everything you said I would um except I would I take a little exception of commercial use
because it really isn't it's all for residents used for an office might be a social worker coming once a week once a month I didn't conference room this is office space this is commercial space on the lower level it's it's really not
intended for that and and you're that way and as this project grows you already have two in the neighborhood this is the third I can see this used quite a bit May perhaps the board puts puts
limits on that and Mr Walker wants to discuss that chairman I and Mr Lindell I I believe that the condition that I had raised the same the same issue um and we I think it was agreeable to the applicant that we basically said
that there's a condition that that that commercial space as you've couched it will only be used in connection with the residential so it'll be practically amenity space for the residents it'll be those rooms will only be used by the residents so no outside commercial
because it just opens up a can of worms for that parking for traffic generation it's not a separate use it's not a separate office space you can't rent it out to anybody it's just used for the residents basically as their common areas his staff here they didn't ask for
conference room they didn't put it in the plan unless it was going to be used and we've put the limitations on them and hopefully they will if they are approved they will abide by that we did hear testimony from operations that about Staffing that there will be basically one staff member on on call um
and then one basically maintenance person so um if they go in violation of that then that's you know they'll be back here they're coming back here if they violate that so we're hoping that those stipulations will help to control it cuz we have the same concerns all right thank you just to clarify that
that's for use by the residents and for services to be provided to the residents right so it's not the social workers and people coming in can be in there we're not limiting it to the residents only right no but I just I want to caution
that it would not be used for like day-to-day offic yes of course but I justlo there could be people in there absolutely if they had there aren't residents providing them Services correct so if they wanted to come in and benefit of the for benefit of yeah I just want to make sure but it's not going to be a got it a usual you know 9
to5 thing where that's being used for by an employee exactly y it absolutely won't be right wait Le come on forward again Ronald picado 123d Avenue right next to the building proposed uh so my house is 86 squ ft and this building is going to be 5,000 ft from
what I'm hearing in so it's five times the size of my house just to keep that in as the mass five times more than five times the size of my house thank you any other questions I have I have one is there a generator planned for this building you
have an elevator right so what happens in the event the power go bu like this we generally do not I mean if they want if we want to put a generator we could but it's not it's not needed for any code like medical would be or or just
it's not necessary all right we're approaching 10 o'clock is that the completion of your testimony just in terms of this witness this witness yeah yeah we we're going to wrap this up you know it's 10:00 we don't have a fire marshall letter you know to get to a vote I still think
there's some outstanding items here um I just want to make sure that this witness is complete members of the public got a chance to question him um yeah it it it's it's 10:00 so we have available to you for our next meeting
date May 13th does that work with you there's no after Starbucks right yeah yeah there's noer is almost done Mr H you have one more witness so he's about an hour you think no we need testimony on the record not
just question this is this is too important I think to do abbreviated and and try and Rush this through and and I I don't want you to rush your testimony I'm just trying to get a feel because April we could do this after Starbucks on on March 11th but that's a complete
new site plan we could go the night of April 8th we have Paul Miller which has gone fairly smoothly I think they only have one they have one witness left as well so I I'll leave it up to you May 13th you can have the whole night which doesn't sound like
you'll need or April 8th you could go after Paul Miller they have one witness saying want to get moving on this project okay well you had a chance in 2012 to get moving on this project
yeah all right so we're going to push this the rest of this testimony to 7 p.m. April 8th in this room what are we going to do about notice so for the for the members of the public it's being continued to April 8th in this room at 7
p.m there'll be no further notices from the applicant okay so you have to remember or call Nancy okay Council I'll stipulate T appropri decision yeah why don't we go out through I don't know where you are TimeWise but why don't we go out through um what date inil through
the first meeting in May is that the 13th the first me May 13th May 13th yes all right and our next meeting is going to be February 25th in this room we're going to hear The JCC case and and St
Bernards as well so with that could I get a motion to adour I move all right Mr widley and Mr bonjo thank you everyone thank you very much great job end over time