Okay, we're recording. All >> right. Um, good afternoon. Welcome everyone to the uh October 21st, 2025 meeting of the policy subcommittee. Uh, I'll start by moving the minutes from September 9th, 2025. Thank you, Betsy, for writing those up. Uh, do I have a
second? >> A second. >> Thanks, Jesse. Um, Mariah, how do you vote? >> Yes. >> Jesse, >> yes. >> Okay. And I vote yes. Um, no. Uh, thank you, Bella, for joining us. Um, I I I thought you had might have another
meeting at 5. Uh, do you have any constraints on when you can be present at this this meeting? >> He's muted. >> You're muted. >> Val is attending the other one. It's here and then she's there. >> Okay.
>> Um, okay. that that may work out well because um I believe uh part of uh at least part of your reason for being here today might be to provide us with any updates on the principal's views on building access. So um Mariah asked that we move that agenda item up to be the
first one. So let's start with that policy. Um so this is uh possible updates to section K of the policy manual. Um, so Jesse, do you want to introduce your current draft, some of the background to this, and maybe how you envision this fitting into the that
section as it stands? >> Uh, sure. Thanks. Um, hi everyone. So, section K as it currently exists in the policy manual was last looked at over 10 somewhere between 2014 back to 1981. So
um there were there besides there being terminologies uh in there that were somewhat old. Um there the uh the goal was to um sort of take a new look at it regarding security regard regarding how
outside um users um approach our town facilities which are the buildings. So the um the uh some key input that uh we had gotten was from both afterchool programs and enrichment programs about
consistent and timely protocols for making reservations and being charged fees that allow them to operate and us to make the revenue and not to obviously go negative. um and um the use of you know and and people and and there's a
whole section in the um in in the existing one about how the how the public should conduct themselves on school property. Um in in taking a look at a draft of of a new version which I did send out I think to Betsy on Sunday. Um I I took a sort of a little different
uh view of it and basically I wanted to immediately start by saying that the public schools of Brooklyn buildings are primarily for of course school and that um because it's because of the size of the investment though and the square
area of business of space that the schools represent within the town that when possible and when um when available um done correctly it should be available. able, you know, certain parts of the schools at least should be available to uh um both uh families
after school time as well as to programs whether they're school related or not school related but under control of the um superintendent and the office of administration and finance. Um so um
again uh some some points that I made in the newer version was that um the scope of all uh the scope of all access and usage would be under the direct responsibility of the superintendent that in in general um their access time
is for school only and things related to school and then um access and security need to be guaranteed. Um there's a there's a issue that's come up over the last year and a half that I've been involved with um security after hours so
that um enrichment and um um after school programs don't have to be uh taking their staff to meet people knocking at the door or kids that are playing in the playground after hours and need to get to a bathroom or something like that. So the security
measures part is another set. Um there's a section that respects the way the classrooms and facilities have to be used in a way that does not damage anything and provides for methodologies for cleanup and um and and supervision um handling things after hours and uh
and then and then a large not a large section but a but a significant paragraph had to do with the afterchool programs. And so as I mentioned um just prior to the meeting started um that um I had that I um last year that I had
been approached by several of the afterchool programs to discuss the timing that we use to set up the contracts with these programs so that they can um adequately prepare and market to the community. Um and then the
co and the cost structure um that their concerns with some of the afterchool enrichment programs about how how what what facilities they're offered, how it's decided um uh whether it can be money uh even neutral for these programs
or whether they have to go to the parents in addition you know to to to uh to raise additional funds because of the way it's being charged or that they feel in discussions with some of their other peer enrichment programs that they're handled differently in different schools because of historical reasons. The whole
gamish of that was basically that it would be appropriate, I think, for us to ensure that we have standardized protocols, improved timing so that um we're we're contracting with the programs um on a schedule that works for both them in particular because they're
providing the program and of course with the schools. And then finally, a section about um emergencies. Um so um you know I didn't look at this um Andy as a way of of um specifically um folding it into each and every
paragraph of section K. Um because again that's 11 years old right now. Um but certainly we can take a look at doing it that way if uh if that's the way the committee wants to do it. I'm happy to work on it that way as well. Um yeah, I mean I didn't have any particular vision in mind for that
because going through the existing section K. I mean there's some overlap with um with what you've provided here and then there's quite a few things that uh are you know that aren't addressed here. I don't know how much of that really needs to be addressed in policy in general. Of course it would be great
if we could uh slim down the policy uh and still have it do what what's needed. Um but I don't think we've done that work yet of figuring out what in the existing section could could go. Um yeah so anyway thank you for providing this this new draft. Um so I guess I uh the
the changes since April that I noted in comparing the the two. So you had added in section two a sentence saying while the superintendent is responsible for the broad strokes of this policy the director of the of OAF and the director staff shall work together with school
and external building users to ensure consistency. So I think that's an important change and maybe is actually the main motivation for uh addressing this now. Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, I think the other things I noted that were new was uh you added a sentence in section five saying use of
these special areas is contingent upon the scheduled party adhering to all rules associated with such areas. And you also added a sentence there on rental fee schedules um being recommended by the superintendent and approved by the school committee. >> Right. Right. And then the only other
change I noticed was that you deleted the word promptly from uh um Oh, no, no, actually you um you add Did you add the word? No, no, it's still there. Okay, sorry. Never mind. Nothing there. >> Um you moved it to a different part of the sentence. Yeah. >> Right. I think the issue about the
rental fee schedules again is that there's some lack of I think transparency about what the schedules are for the fees when they have you know how how the contracts are set up. It seemed it, you know, when I spoke to like for example at Driscoll or at Hayes or at uh F FRR for example, the
different folks gave me like different narratives about how how it works um or doesn't work smoothly for them and especially because in some cases this could be potentially a revenue opportunity for for the school for PSB.
Um it's important that we you know sort of get this um properly codified and ensure that our our like our machine is running smoothly you know in terms of when the the enrichment programs or after school programs are identifying that there's a need how they reach
either you know Susan or Jose you know that that kind of a >> yes sir >> oh sorry yeah just you know who who they reach out to that should be you know there's some a little bit of that in the original policy maybe we can fold those two together in that area. So that is
just a very clear um set of protocols about how to how to how to how how to uh how to set it up and how the actual you know fees are fees are to be set. An example would be is it per head or is it per room? In other words, if I have 100 students, am I paying 100 times some
unit price? What if what if I need to use a certain room? Is a multi-purpose room or some other room more expensive? And if so, in some of the cases, it prices them out. I mean, it's just no way to do it. So, or if there are other programs that come in and rent a rent a room for an for an outside thing. I
don't know if Booksmith is doing something in the school and they pay for a rental yet a enrichment program is paying every day during a different set of hours, but they're paying differently. So, all that stuff needs to be because people talk I think it just needs to be in black and white so that like the school committee is clear,
superintendent's clear, and the community is clear on how we're handling access to the buildings. >> Yeah. Um, so Mariah, you probably have more experience than any of the rest of us in trying to mediate uh building usage with uh with these other programs. So how does this seem to you?
>> Well, I think Jesse, you're saying things which I think um I think reflect the that you are new to the committee, so you haven't lived through fee setting on buildings. We have a published we have all the documents published that define the different rates and the
different setting for the different programs because they operate differently. Some of them are running once like an hour, once a, you know, month and some of things are running every day for four hours a day. So there there's absolutely stuff published on
all of the fees. And um but I think that what you're also alluding to is for example, some quote unquote enrichment programs are standalone, some programs are run by PTO's. We have all of that accounted for in the documentation.
I guess my question is is is this policy meant to address the fees because the the issues you're mentioning um don't necessarily seem to be covered in this uh policy like the scheduling questions
um is one thing the rental fees which you're saying is an issue is as you say it's it's it's a a different document that we have worked with. So I guess I'm not I'm not really clear like are we trying to what are we trying to do
relating to the fees there just so I understand >> would it be appropriate that the fees um is are are available through the policy or should should they be linked somewhere else so that they're >> they should be linked somewhere else
because the policy is meant to be basically static unless you want to have to revise the policy every year. It doesn't make sense to the policy incorporate the fees, >> right? >> In the same way that we vote all the other fees separately every year. We don't have any of our fees baked into
policy. They're all separate. >> The um the um um existing policy doesn't refer to any documentation. So maybe that would be an improvement if we were to uh you know do what you said to link to
where they really are so that we can um so that the policy takes the person reading the policy or wanting to do a program to where that information is. >> Well, I think they should talk to the director of operations or the deputy for admin and finance which is those are the as I think you did allude to. >> Yes.
>> These are the person or the people who are responsible for that. >> Sure. Um I have >> Betsy has scrolled to schedule of fees. The DSAF shall develop and maintain a fee schedule and payment process for community use. Right. So it's sort of it's mentioned in the current
>> section. >> But I mean like in in discussing things with parents different you know after school programs it's like helter skelter. That's what I that that's sort of the >> I think Jesse, you need to differentiate between a couple there's a couple of things going on and I think you're
taking like you know that parable about the the different blind men looking at the elephant says it's a snake and one says right you're give you're talking to people who have certain like limited narrow windows into the system >> as opposed to um I don't know if you
actually talked to Susan or to Joe or anyone who's actually running the system but let me give a little bit of background which is um Matt Gillis was here um and then left to go to a different school system and then we had a year without a director of operations and then Joe came in and this is the
we're now in the beginning of Joe's second year the very start of Joe's second year >> right >> and so um when Joe came in a lot of the systems that one would like to see around contracting and everything else were not necessarily in place and so Joe
was going to take his first year to live it so that we could have recommendations be made this year for how things should run. So, for example, how should contracting run, how should booking run, all of those kinds of details of what you're alluding to. Now, people who use
the system in and out, they have much more familiarity with who they need to talk to and so on. Um, and I would I'm pretty sure that the people who you're talking to are people who are frequent flyers and and know that they probably they're reflecting
though the fact that we had a um a different person in charge before and maybe the systems weren't what they needed to be and then we had a gap and then we have a new person. So, I wouldn't like my sort of takeaway from this is let's let Joe um
there's there's Joe getting himself up to speed on the systems he needs and we shouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bathwater and sort of saying, "Well, there's no systems or anything." It's that Joe has literally said to us last spring, "Please let or even last fall, please let me get the time to see how
this works so I can make recommendations for how this is going to work." >> When are we going to get those recommendations? we'll have to follow up with him. This is the first conversation that we're having um regarding this topic and so we
need to have like this was the point was starting this fall we would have those conversations. >> So maybe what we should do is put this aside for a second and to and schedule that time with him possibly with Susan as well. uh that will provide some additional meat for the bones here so
that we have those sections sort of um captured based on his experiences first year. >> Well, I guess my question though Jesse is like his side is operations to me this is policy. So like things like security measures all exterior
doors will remain locked during school hours with access controlled. Are we is that policy or are we essentially defining procedure in this policy document? Because I think that there's a a blend here and I'm not sure what that's what I am trying to say is what
is this document trying to uh trying to do? Are we trying to talk about like locking doors? Are we trying to say for example are things sort of like philosophically about how we want the building whether or not we want the building to be
available after school or outside of school hours and you know if we have any sort of priorities as to who gets access or like those sorts of questions to me seem like more appropriate rather than waiting into the details of exactly how our buildings are going to be maintained
secure. Well, I guess in the same way that the existing policy in involves that provision of certification of Corey checks on all program staff, uh certification of liability coverage, copies of state licenses, that's pretty detailed stuff as well. Rather than just saying follow or that we don't
discriminate based on, you know, color, religion, origin, gender. >> I'm not sure that I don't I'm not saying that the current policy is good either. I'm saying do we actually want not like what does the current policy have? Um, I think I think where I was trying
to uh proceed was to discuss the philosophy of the way that the that the public schools of Brookline welcomes use of its buildings outside of school hours and that what framework we want to put around that. >> When we talked about building fees, some
of the things we talked about we essentially enshrined in the fees, but we don't have a policy that supports. And I'll give you an example. One of them is that we don't charge PTO's for space because PTO's are their funding is returning fully to that school. We don't
charge them for space because that's essentially just deducting the funds that they're going to give back to the school anyway. But that's something that we put into the fee schedule which isn't necessarily which is not reflected in policy. So things like that sort of our philosophy about who we want to be able
to use the building um when and at what cost I think might be very valuable in the policy. The other thing that we've been talking about with recreation is that they have a first um it's not again it's not complete but this idea of having a first right of refusal for some
of the spaces um after hours and so how we talk about for example PTO's and Rex because the other thing that I think that those uses which are at zero cost they go you know there's this tension between revenue generation and who we
want to be able to use the buildings at no cost. And I think that if the school committee could articulate sort of what we want in that domain, that would be very helpful to help everyone understand what we're trying to do and why our revenue generation may be limited given
the priorities that we're making. You know, for example, we might choose to offer the space to the Brooklyn Senior Center at zero cost, some space. That's great. And so, you know, how do we um we need to talk about why we're doing
that though, right? Because I think especially as we're going into this override year, those kinds of like philosophical decisions are important for us to articulate as opposed to >> some of the more operational procedural aspects. >> I agree. Mariah, as someone who has
worked on the fiscal policy quite a bit, does this resemble that in the sense that there's this whole area of our operations where like a lot of practices have grown up over time? Some are, you know, a lot of institutional knowledge goes away when people leave, >> but there's sort of a way things are
done. And then there's this question of what's worth codifying and what's better left to individual judgment, right? And then also what what's worth elevating the policy in particular. Um yeah I mean so the all the questions you're raising seem to arise there as well but you know
we somehow you know managed to get a policy uh underway so I don't want us to be paralyzed here by you know well you know some a lot of people know a lot of things but you know >> I don't think it's about knowing a lot of things Andy I think that like they
should be writing down their procedures procedure like an SOP manual or whatever it is how they track things there's just a difference in how they operate. operationalize that and how they might make modifications to their operations routinely which is very different from
our policy manual right if this isn't updated for 5 years will that be a problem right I mean questions there's a lot of stuff here that's very detailed so I would like us to not overstep on whether it's at the building level or at the district level in terms of
operations which I agree with you there should be documentation that's that's that's that's not saying that documentation doesn't have to live in our policy manual. We can say things like the superintendent should direct her staff to create app, you know, appropriate
SOPs relating to security. >> I mean, the the community interest here is just so that people who might wish to use our buildings, like know where to turn, have some sense of the principles that they're going to encounter when they negotiate with us, right? >> Yeah. >> So, how best to achieve that, I'm not sure. Um, Bella, you have your hand up.
I just um I am a little so thank you Jesse for the draft. Um I'm looking at the current policy and it's actually quite clear on scheduling and fees. It does say that administrative guidelines
should be um created for the use of school buildings. I have to say I don't know if such a guide exists or not. Maybe it does exist. Um but that is more typical of a of a policy sort of outlining there shall be fees. The
administration has to produce the schedule. There should be guidance on use of school buildings and so the administration is supposed to have created them. And again I don't know if they exist or not. It's it's just cuz
I'm new. Um, if I if you're concerned about what the rules are, then then I think school committee can ask for a review of the guidelines, right, of the building use,
but to be prescriptive about generally like a policy won't say you have to lock the doors. It'll I don't know it'll it'll ask for development of safety protocols that should exist and it may be embodied in these guidelines
for use of school buildings. But Jesse, there must be something you thought wasn't being addressed by the current the current policy that you felt you needed needed to draft it. I wasn't sure if you were suggesting this should should replace the one
that's there. I think I think it's probably going to be better if uh I try to merge the two together. >> Okay. So, you must think there's some things in here that that Yeah. that isn't aren't being met. Okay. It it did
seem pretty comprehensive, I guess. So, again, I was just wondering Oh, so like embedded in your draft. I see it says security cameras may be installed.
Um >> that's a that's a policy statement. You know that's >> Yeah. you might. So, I wonder so the current policy covers fees and it and um general uses and stuff, but maybe
maybe you're looking for a a like a security policy like safety and security policy, a standalone or um >> I'm not Yeah, I'm not sure that really
exists. So, >> well, I'm wondering if that's what you're looking for as opposed to in in putting it into this. >> Um, >> yeah. The the other thing is, um, if one takes a look at section K on the MASC
site where they have, you know, district after district after district, the community use of school facility section is like onetenth the length of our Brookline one right now. It's like five paragraph, five sentences, you know, kind of thing. >> And it's very very very very high level. Leaves a lot I think the last reviewed
in 2022 and it leaves a lot to like to wonder about like where does everything else happen, right? And if it's not in the policy, how do you find anything? So to me it seemed very very that's filed KF very very thin Bella. So um I felt it
was important that we um put a little more you know meat on the bones again about um other than you know saying that the use of the buildings by other by any organization will be permitted only when a worthy cause will be served or a substantial group of citizens from the
community will be benefited you know and then to say school facilities will be used according to the regulations and rental fee schedules recommended by the superintendent and approved by the school committee to me says very little. It's a oneline thing. If I want to know anything about that, I got to start trying to, you know, work my way in
somewhere to find out who is it up to date. Is it the same as everyone else's? You know, there's a lot of unknowns in in there. So, it's very so high level as to be not very useful in my opinion. >> Okay.
I um so just what so it's so I'm unclear how how you want to integrate this or it sounds like you might want to just try to integrate it to the current >> Yeah I think I think that might that that that might be you know the next ones >> Andy if I might just make one more
comment. Sure. And then Mariah. >> Okay. Um, just when when you were talking about when the group was talking about who gets to use building space for free, I just wanted to remind everyone there's also ST STS. They're another group
that gets to use School Space without a fee. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> I'm sorry, which one? >> Steps to Success. >> Yes. in for after school programming. >> Who who um who who takes care of like
building maintenance in those situations, cleaning, you know, whatever going at going through afterwards and getting everything ready for the next day of school, >> right? So that's the so that's a good point. So when you when we allow building use after school by other it it
makes it it's wear and tear in the building and of course it makes it harder for custodial staff to clean those areas in time for tomorrow. It's just part of part of the understanding. So you don't just because you have this is something to keep in mind when
scheduling um the spaces for use by for other uses besides the school. No different than for anything, Jesse, when when we allow the building to be used. Yes. And so the fee is supposed to cover that. But there's some things like
Mariah mentioned, PTO. Um STS is another um are groups that we we don't charge. >> Okay. >> Partly because we're recognizing their their mission, their charter. PTO is all about supporting the school. all
volunteers and STS um supports our students that are in the um that live in the housing authority, but also students are eligible for participation in STS that um
are of a certain socioeconomic status that that they also have that. >> Yeah, no problem. >> Yeah. So, so as part of their charter, we're recognizing they're clearly not not for profit. Um, >> Sure.
>> Yeah. So I think I think um Mandy maybe the next um the next step with this one would be for me to take it back based on the input that was shared here and um uh provide a a a draft um maybe for our
next meeting even you know in other words I'll try to do this uh in in in you know in due time rather than like you know by the spring try to do it for our next meeting so that uh we can look at it next another time. I wonder whether before you uh do the do all that
work of um putting together a new draft um we should at least check in with the um the staff member who who has to live with this policy um and figure out uh you know in his I guess one year of experience so far. Are there areas where he might have wished that the policy were more explicit? Are there areas
where he's found the current policy helpful or unhelpful in various ways? just so we get a sense of um of that cuz I do think that we're we we have some understanding of what the community might need from the policy which is you know just to to have some predictability
and understand kind of who they need to talk to and uh some general guidelines. I'm less clear on what staff would need out of a policy >> and beyond Joe it's also the principles and the people who are in the build like the building leaders and also the people who are working in the buildings after
school. >> Yeah. because I I don't think this was an area where we were approached by staff saying, "Oh, you know, we there are these gray areas and we really need some guidance in order to be able to, you know, point to this when when we're working with folks in the community." U
I haven't heard that for this policy, which that is often how, you know, our policy work originates. Yeah. >> Yeah. One of the things that did come up at the PTO meeting where I represented the school committee at at Ridley uh when maybe two weeks ago or something
was about building access after after school is out. Meaning that in that particular case at F FRR a large number of middle middle school students stay after school to play outside and if any of the kids need to use the bathroom the doors are locked and they have to knock
on the door until someone you know comes over to help you know to get let a kid go in to use the bathroom. And we also discussed things like if you forgot your backpack whatever but let's just use the bathroom case. So there were parents who volunteered, you know, in in the ensuing discussion after I spoke about it for a
minute or two, they said, "Well, you know, we could have had a have a rotating schedule where a certain parent who's there every afternoon um takes an hour and they're going to be sitting by the door and they'll make sure that they're checking who's coming in and coming out." And I said, "Well, we'll need more discussion about that because
I'm not I'm not going to say from the school committee perspective, of course, without talking to superintendent or anyone else or Jose about whether that's, you know, the security approach you want to take after hours is having parents um you know um more or less hopefully not too distracted deciding
who comes in and out of the building after school is finished. And at the same time, we don't want the doors propped open and and yet um kids who are spending a lot of their hours after school playing with their friends if they need to use a bathroom uh do we need security guard there to let them in? How's that supposed to work? So I
discussed it with them and said needs more work. We're working on a policy and you know sort of uh hope to get back to you know in one or two PTO meetings from then about how far you know where where we're going to develop this so that there is some kind of support for that. And I imagine, you know, a haze, I see
the same thing. It's in my neighborhood. I see kids playing after school at RNL in my neighborhood. So, it's not a not only a Rley thing. Um, and so this is something on not on the usage side as much, but really on just how do we prop what's our policy for um providing
access to our to our kids, our students after school's over in terms of just access to the building after the end of the official school day. Just another piece of it, Andy. >> Okay. Now, Mariah, you've had your hand up for a while. >> So, this this um is exactly what I had
my hand up about, which is that the policy um the after hours access and spec specifically after school use. I think we have this challenge and it's not just like for example students who want to use the bathroom which I think is an
edge case that could fall in either direction about whether we want to let people into the building like loosey goosey after school. Um but things like wreck renting the basketball um
court after or not even wreck a au renting the basketball court after school and then um the coach shows up and it's 6:00 p.m. and no one is necessarily there to let them in. So what our systems or what the school committee expects of buildings, I think
we need to sort of have this moment where we say, well, if we're going to rent buildings until 8:00 p.m., who's the party who's responsible for making sure that person so and so, like whoever it is who's who's the responsible person has the ability to get into the building, right? And the other issue I
think we have is that for example um extended days are not employees of Brooklyn public schools and they're being asked to for example um let in like answer the doorbell and let in people and they don't that's not their job and that's not they can't be
responsible for that um and they shouldn't have to you know that should not be something that they're being asked to do. So I think we have this gap still between >> um specifically in this area of like what does it mean and and you know to have once the once the front office
staff is is gone and even sometimes once the extended days are over we still have building use. So who is >> right who is sort of um controlling access to the buildings and I think we have a problem especially um because multiple of the buildings are not
designed where for example to access the gym it's not like we have one like there's not like an external door which can be left open to just access the gym essentially you have to be let in the front door and that opens up everything. So our buildings aren't designed for
this and there's a problem. So, I do think that the policy could sort of really help articulate what our expectations are because there's budgetary implications of, you know, being able to have a building openly. And I don't think we're because we haven't provided any money for this in
the same way. Like, I don't necessarily think we're managing it the way it should be. But I do agree with you, Andy. There should be something that's talked about with Joe. And if Bella has already gotten input from the principles about this, like it would be helpful to hear that too. Um to really make sure
that the building that the policy is where um the staff are having their needs met, the the school committee is making sure our priorities are clear and then the community understands who they need to go to. So what would be the most efficient way
of checking in with the director of operations and with building leaders about sort of what you know whether the current policy is meeting their needs if there are gaps or unclarities like whether those are the kind that can be addressed by policy or not. >> But did Bella talk to them or no? I I
did, but I t I this is um this I don't think this I I wasn't aware this draft existed until just recently. I and so I didn't ask them about this. I asked them about something very specific. Mhm.
>> Um I do I do worry about um after school access that's sort of random like you're describing. Um there's you'd like to think that it wouldn't
happen, but there is when it when there can be a lot of damage done um to student work that's on the walls. um just moving around things and also soiling areas that have just been
cleaned in preparation for the next day. It's it's um when you when you allow after school use to a group that's a little different cuz you know you know they're responsible for the area but it's I'm a little wary
of just opening up access so they can access the bathrooms though I understand that's like a practical need but um to open the school up for that I
I don't you know, it's a it's sort of just concerning about maintaining security of the space. Um, but this is not something I talked to them about it. I talked to them about something more specific. >> Yeah. >> So, before we leave this policy for the
moment, um, Bella, do you mind saying what uh what they told you? So, I think the thing you were going to check in with them about was specifically caregiver access at pickup and drop off. >> Yes, that's what I talked to them about. And if uh I'm happy to go back to them
to talk about other things, but I'm not I I would need more clarity about what it is I'm asking other than does the policy as it exists affect you? Either way, they're probably not going to be able to respond. Um >> cuz I I don't think it's been an issue
for them. But if there's a new policy there, then I can run that by them. Anyway, on the question of whether um allowing access by caregivers, that language before, during, and after drop off and
pickup that does not interfere with the safety or operation of the building, the that draft language. >> Yes, Andy. >> Yes. >> Yes. So, um I believe it was something that was they addressed in the in the
spring. So they were familiar with the language and they pretty had a uniform response to this. They do um they do have a consist they are all they say every single one I asked every single principal um at the K8 they have they
have drop off outside the building and they have pickup outside the building. There's no difference among the schools. There is some difference depending um for the preschool program. If they're housed in a school, they adhere to the
school rule. If they're not housed in a school, but definitely that in that case, parents may walk their children more to the classroom. Um but it but otherwise, if they're in a school, they adhere to the school rule, which is pickup and drop off are all outside the
school. Um >> what about pickup from after school programs? from afterchool programs >> like extended >> yeah that I don't know >> because I know I know >> that I don't know >> I know from I know from personal
experience of picking up my grandkids um >> from an after school program may be different >> yeah because you have to go in to sign them you have to go in to sign them out and you have to go to the room this is when they were younger obviously >> it's a that's a good point to see I only asked for a regular drop off and pickup
um they did say too like when they had affected a more uniform policy across the schools. The teachers report having more time on learning because they are able to have a more uniform start and end. Um they were not in favor of a
policy that would allow caregivers access to the building um to come in dur or at drop off. >> That's interesting. Okay. things must have changed because in my visits to schools I you know a year ago, two years
ago, three years ago um >> um between 10 of 8 and like 2 minutes to 8 there was quite a lot of there were quite a lot of young parents with young kids dropping those young kids off at the door to their classroom and then parents leaving. >> So >> Well, that's that's interesting. That's
not what they're reporting, not what they allow. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> But I can check I know which school you're at. So I'll ask again. >> One of the things that we have heard is for example
whether or not that is the policy. Some schools like Driscoll has this activity where once a week um a classroom I can't I think they call it like the classroom leads an open house or something. They have something that they do and all of the classes in the grade are invited to
come. all the caregivers of the classes in the grade are invited to participate >> and that seems like a way for to invite in a controlled manner the caregivers into the life of the school. At other schools you may only enter the school
for example during openhouse in the fall and never come back during the school day for the rest of the year except perhaps you might have like a a classroom breakfast or something like that. And so, um, I think that if there was a way to look at what some of those
practices are that are happening in some schools so as to increase the controlled access as opposed to uncontrolled access, but controlled access and participation in life of the school, I think that would be quite valuable. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And again on a pol from a policy
perspective versus what's actually done in my experience um um some schools have a table when you come in after they buzz you in and you really have to sign in and potentially
even getting a sticker to put on your shirt that you're a visitor. Other schools nothing. They'll buzz you in and after that you can walk to wherever you want to go. There's nobody no adult asking you to sign in. there's no notebook for you to sign in. No one stops you to say,
"Can you please stop in the office and sign your name?" So, it just could be that, you know, we know what the policy is, but how well, as I think um Mariah mentioned, how well they um the actual how well these things are actually implemented and practice on a daily basis may be different.
>> Well, there is no policy, right? Nowhere in our policy does it say caregivers do not have access to the building at pickup and drop off. It's it this uh this the practice grew up during the pandemic and then was codified in a memo from Jim Marini >> a memo an email that was flung against
the wall on a f the last the last day the last Friday that was the last day of school >> and that's been the practice ever since. Um and as far as I can tell the building leaders are happy with that practice. Um I can also as a teacher myself understand why most educators would probably be happy with that practice. So
and that's the way it stayed. Um, >> and I can understand that too and I appreciate that. And I and I think that there's just there's an opportunity here as educators appreciate that the community feels less engaged with our schools and that has there's short-term
and long-term drawbacks to to that. >> Yeah. I just think trying to reverse this practice um by writing a policy to address it would would not go down well. And that's that's my view. I will I will say again too that the teachers are reporting
um more time on learning like they have a more they just know they can start and they can end as opposed to a fuzzy start. And you can imagine like some classrooms some classrooms had a fuzzy start versus another class that starts on time. Um can
you know can can erode sort of that equitable experience across the classrooms. um over time. >> Sure. But again, how how can we foster more opportunities for engagement, you know, so that people feel a little bit
more of that life of the school that they do not feel >> the way they used to, right? The pendulum doesn't need to go all the way to where it is right now. I thought that idea that you have um what you said that Triscll does a regular activity that's
more like this is the time you can come in. I mean we can talk about it >> before we leave this policy for the moment. I'm not like I don't think that going to the building leaders about the um the after school access is something we need to do right now. But is there um a quick way to check in with at least
the director of operations just to find out like does he ever even refer to the current policy? you know, are there are there times when >> up? Do you ever look at it, Joe? >> Yeah. Well, you know, it's fine if he doesn't, but like, you know, does does he ever have occasion to refer to it? Are there like, you know, does he think
it needs to be rewritten from his from where he sits right and after a year of experience actually managing this? >> I didn't definitely should. Yeah, absolutely. >> Andy, I actually disagree with you too. I think the building leaders live this
in a very very intimate way and so they really are quite experienced and understand the challenges and where the policy might help bring clarity to the process or might provide additional needed guidance >> for for after school and enrichment. You mean
>> correct? Because they're that's their building. They're overseeing that building and certainly they have quite a lot of them might be the last person in the building. They might be the one answering the door after hours. >> There's a lot that they
>> Joe Joe's important because they um it's the cleanup and >> yeah, >> sometimes things aren't left the way they there's repair. There's in fact during the summer, you know, they they have things that are broken. Um,
>> well, I mean that should be policy. >> I think that was that's how I read Andy's comment was was there more >> that could be done in the policy. >> Well, I just heard Andy saying I don't think we need to consult them and I think that we would >> I said that at this moment I don't think
it's the highest priority given how many there are and that they've already just been asked about this policy in a different aspect. Like I think I would like to have some understanding of like Joe's thinking on this because he's sort of the central person here.
>> So I guess the plan there Andy is to um get some feedback from Joe and then to based on based on that to potentially >> um have me sort of maybe do another draft with a closer merge as Bella had suggested maybe between the existing one
and and this to Actually, if there are parts of the existing one that are, you know, a dead letter or not necessary or even should be changed, right, then with that. So, Bella, would it be convenient to check in with with Joe about this um and just see whether he has thoughts?
>> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> All right. Well, so thanks for that discussion. Um so we're now almost 50 minutes into our 90-minute meeting and um two more policies left to discuss and new business I expect would take 5 to 10 minutes because there is some uh just
discussing you know upcoming um activity. Uh so yeah Mariah do you want to >> Sure. >> Um discuss I guess the first one will be the section J on class size and sectioning. >> That's not what I have pulled up so it won't >> What do you have? What do you have pulled up?
>> I have the other one. Uh, I'm just trying to open up my >> I'm still here. I'm just turning my camera off. >> Yeah. Thank you, Bella, for joining us. >> Uh, here we go. So, you can see this is the flag, the pledge
of allegiance. So, most of it, there's two pages here. Most of it doesn't change. The only edits here on the first page were just to refresh that it's now called select board instead of board of select bins. So, that is very minor. >> Yeah. And then um this was just a um it
looked like a hanging sentence like the pledge of allegiance will be preceded with the following statement. Um but then there was no statement. So I think I just cleaned that up. And then >> did there used to be or is it >> No, I don't think so. I'm just looking at this. It looks like it might just be
dead language. I'm not sure. So then the non-coercive environment and so I updated this wording about like because it used to be respect for human differences. We had modified it and then it says the pledge of allegiance will be proceeded with the following or this is the part I added or a substantially
similar statement by the principal head of school or their designate designate. We will next recite the pledge of allegiance in our community of many nationalities and beliefs. We recognize that the United States pledge of allegiance is less meaningful for some community members. Reciting the pledge is not required. A respectful silence is
expected from everyone who chooses not to participate. And that's the only edit in rereading this now. So, I wrote this a long time ago. In rereading this now, I think I don't I don't necessarily love this this sentence that I'm highlighting here. And I don't think it's necessary.
Can you see what I'm highlighting? >> Yeah, I agree. I was just that. >> So, I think it would just say, we'll read next recite and then reciting the pledge is not required. A respectful silence is expected from someone. That would be my only edit to this. And then it's just so that like it's affirmed
that like we will do this but it's not required and that you're expected to be quiet and then that's it. >> Well, that's what's how does that reflect I mean that seems to be repetitive with this with the first sentence in black after the red part >> because that is this this is what is said out loud to them. You there were
the the statement this is what's read aloud. The principal says we will next recite the pledge of allegiance. Um, you're right that this is repetitive, but it's not asking them to read this bit aloud. This is the part that they would say aloud. And we can delete this sentence if you
like because it's in the the statement. That's fine, too. >> That's yes. >> Okay. Um, >> so why did this not advance? Um, because we it was last taken up in January of 2024. I don't think we actually took it up.
I'm not sure we actually ever took this up. I remember sending it to David and I'm not sure it ever went to policy. >> Oh, >> yeah. I don't like I said like I want to do this. Betsy, do you remember? I remember sending it to David, but I don't think it actually got anything
happened with it. Maybe Betsie's not there. >> Anyway, so so it's a very it's a very small edit. I agree with we can delete out this sentence and I would delete out that middle sentence and that's it. >> Sorry, I was muted there. Um I will find
my notes. Can you give me one sec? It was it was um before policy in January of 24. >> So if you give me one sec, I'll find the notes we took that day. >> Oh. Um at the bottom of that document in the last paragraph, Maria. >> Yeah. Sorry. Let me pull it up.
>> Thank you. >> Yes. It's still black. Uh, what does it mean? The the capital Brook Brooklyn learning expectations. Is that an old state an old concept from somewhere else? Like Brookline learning expectations and
capital letters? I don't know what what that what that refers. Is that something from an old strategic plan or something? for my recollection, but Bella, you should correct me, is there used to be separate learning like we used to have separate learning objectives for each grade and the state has now um done
promoted um gradewide learning objectives and so that's superseded the documents we used to have as a district. >> Does that sound right to you, Bella? That >> I'll tell you I'm not You mean as part of the curriculum
guides? Yeah, there used to be really specific, right? Now it's pushed up to the state level, right? That they're statewide curriculum sort of learning objectives and such. >> They always would have been part of the curriculum guides. Yes, that would and then they they're the basis for the MCCAST.
>> Is that what you mean? >> I was just asking, Bella, where it says Brookline Learning Expectations. That phrase is like coming out of nowhere to me. So, I'm trying to understand. >> Yeah, it does look like it's coming out of nowhere. If we can just say that supports uh curricular objectives and that's it.
>> That makes sense to me. >> Okay, I'm happy to. >> And then and BSC at the beginning is for Brooklyn school committee. >> Yeah. >> So Mariah, you're correct. It was a very brief discussion at the January 22nd, 2024 policy subcommittee meeting. Um it
was referenced that there was additional language in the non-coercive environment section so that it's clear that the pledge is an important civic tradition but acknowledges that it is not required to be recited. It was agreed that Dr. Gillery will be asked to discuss this draft policy with school leaders for their feedback. So that was the last I
could find in terms of official work on it >> and I don't think that ever happened. >> I don't think so because I think that would have prompted it to come back. So, >> right. >> I mean, it didn't happen between May 24 and after I joined. I never heard of it. I heard of it only the first time I
heard from you when you mentioned you were going to bring it up. >> Um, >> so I'm a little confused actually as to what the policy is um even requiring. So, it says a PSB principal or head of school shall allow a member of the school community an opportunity to recite the pledge once a week. So, are
principles being required to allow recitation? meaning like you know like we'll get us we'll get a student or a staff member to recite it and it and the only thing that's not required is that like everybody join in. Oh so so it is required that the pledge
be recited by like one person in the school. Uh it's just not everybody has to participate. >> Well that's the other thing about the last paragraph what it said in the pedagogical section I was a little concerned about where it talks about debates about compulsory recitation. We've already covered that in an earlier
part of it. It seems to me since pledge of allegiance doesn't even appear in the MASC policy manual at all any for any school district that this seems like a a one-off at Brookline maybe or something like that where at some point it was um a a practice and there was a policy
written around it. And uh at least to my knowledge, I've never heard from any principal or student I've talked to in years that it's ever been done. So >> it's it's now done quite um it's it has been resurrected.
So um a couple of years ago it was not being done for quite some time routinely like it was sort of just at the building leaders discretion whether or not it was done and there were some inquiries made about our compliance with our own policy
>> and Lionus asked the building principles to confirm that they were adhering to the policy and now my recollections is it happens maybe every Monday morning. Um is that right Bella? Do you remember is it every Monday morning? I'm so sorry. I was reading texts from Val. Go
ahead. Ask me again and she's on the screen here. >> Yeah. Um, just about when the pledge of allegiance is it Monday mornings it happens? Do you remember? >> I actually don't know that. I am sorry. >> Policy is currently being read as requiring that the pledge of allegiance
occur in the school. It's just that students can opt out of actually saying it while it's being broadcast over the intercom. I guess I guess yeah I guess while you're asking Bel the superintendent of anything with the building access thing and be I'd be um just curious if if and how often any
schools are doing it. Not to my knowledge have I ever heard from any parent in years at any school when asking that it's been done. It could be done. >> I was in Lawrence last year and listened to it myself on a Monday morning. So I I know it's happening and um >> and all my other visits to schools in
the mornings I've never >> But again it's once a week. might not have been there a Monday morning or whenever it is. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It'd be good to know. It'd be good to know what the current practices, you know. Yeah, that's good, Maria. No, I'm just curious. >> Thank you. >> Anyway, does it make sense for next
steps for this one that I um will clean up those small edits and then send it to Betsy and Andy and you can send it to Bella or Bella and she can run it by the building leaders and make sure everyone's okay with that. That would be the >> Yeah. before going to a first reading of full school committee. >> Okay. >> Yeah,
>> sounds good. Then the next one that we were gonna talk about um >> was it class size? >> Yeah, the class size document. Betsy, do you have that handy? >> Yes, I do. Yep. >> Okay. So, you'll pull it up. >> Mhm. >> Thank you. >> So, it's in this section. Jay, um you
what you were really adding was here at the end on um me get there. >> Yeah. class sectioning and then you made some other cleanup edits when you looked at it. We focus on this last section like there are quite a few changes earlier in in >> Hold on. But hold on. I what I was going
to say is I'm pretty sure all of the other cleanups didn't they already get um voted. Um Betsy, >> no. >> Oh, they didn't? I thought we had done all of them >> like everything except this because I thought we were trying to clean up the
mess about districts versus I remember that. Um, but no, it >> Okay. >> So, are these red the earth changes now, Mariah? >> Yeah. So, yes, they are.
>> Okay. I'm just trying to understand where this came from. >> Yeah. Okay. So, do we want to go back up to the top then and review them all? I think most of them. So, um, I just changed the he, she to
everywhere. And then the second bit J2B because PSB is a school district, not the school department. Um, and then there's a lot of like complicated wording here. So
E was about like um codifying current practice um because a lot of people want to have their kid come in like when they're maybe like say you are your
your birthday is in September and then they want to get accepted into kindergarten even though they're September birthday and this sort of codifies how you're allowed to enter, what you have to do to get into grade one if you've done your kindergarten somewhere else.
>> Yeah. Was this based on input from Megan? >> Yes. My Well, I can't remember if it was Megan or Sus or Megan via Susan, but it was like through that pathway of >> um Yes. >> Okay. And it was felt by them to be
useful to sort of codify it in this way rather than just relying on sort of them knowing what our practice is. My recollection was that specifically they wanted it to be this is a while ago but my recollection was they wanted it to be in policy to sort of help them like be able to point to something but that
is it's a while ago so I'm like recalling that >> now >> then the section three wording was really just updating like head of school teaching and learning um and then I think I deleted out the high school
parents because I just consolidated all into the um it's the same thing. It's basically just it had originally elementary and high school. I just rolled it into one thing. Um and then
again, I deleted out like elementary school and high school. So that's for JB2. Same thing. >> Um >> if I could pull this back. So my notes from January 22nd, 2024 for the school assignment policy. I I just wrote still
waiting to hear from Megan. So Oh, >> we may not actually have gotten her feedback on on this draft. >> Huh. >> I could have sworn, but I don't know then if it came from Megan or if it's like somewhere on the site, the wording that they use and I >> but I don't think I created that wording.
>> Um my notes in our shared document is that we had a discussion at finance subcommittee on June 26, 2024. So at least Andy, that's later than Jan. This may reflect Megan's um comments. >> Who is Megan?
>> She's the registration and enrollment coordinator. >> Oh, okay. Thank you. >> More sauce in a little bit. Um >> so I can go back and look at that. So then um the B one I had also flagged, right?
This was um this was a question of like basically promotion. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I didn't I just again that was a question in my mind. Um and then the wording for three I think was just standardizing the wording from
an earlier section. >> Um just little wording like little minor updating of titles and whatnot. Um Yeah. So, I think that one also had a
question because this was about um which grade sections you get access to and it's not actually true that all classes and sections are open to all students. So that's what I was flagging
because for example we don't have co-taught honors classes >> right? >> So that's something to work out. Then that is just minor grammar stuff and then >> page four again it's mostly just grammar
stuff and then we get into the class size and sectioning bit. Um and again the goal of this was to um >> rather than traditionally is there some other background we can put in the
policy about you know like between the years of n >> 1995 and 2020 or something. >> No this like sprung from Zeus's head fully formed. No one knows that's more that's more documentation than what we have actually.
Why don't we Why don't we just say >> historically >> or just the district uses guidelines of and that's it. >> That's fine. Yeah. The district uses guidelines of less than >> Yeah. >> LA. These guidelines are not a firm cap. That's fine. And then >> um again the idea was that people were
confused about who made the decision to open up an additional section and we wanted to make it clear that this was not a school committee decision. This is what like this is an operational decision handled by the principal with the superintendent. >> They've said the same thing. Yeah, that's right.
>> Right. And so, um, but that like a class size, you know, maybe a class is I'm making this up, but like it might only have 22 students in it, but the classroom itself can't support that. So, there's a whole bunch of different things that they look at to balance class size and whether or not um
what's appropriate. Okay. And then there's one little sentence there now at the end about what happens when class size exceeded exceeds deadlines. And this is one that I think we had we did have debate about. We said the school committee supports the district leadership in identifying ways to ensure
student learning is maximized. And we have including multi-grade classrooms. No, do not do that. Um and additional classroom supports. And you just need to be patient for a minute. I'm sorry. Um >> taking out. >> It's not. Can you just wait please?
Anyways, so um the question was like we don't offer a lot of multi-grade classrooms or we don't offer any multi-grade classrooms and we don't necessarily have the budget for broadscale additional classroom supports beyond what we do for like K paras and grade one paras. So the question is do
we want to include these things that we really have no history or funding for? Do we even need that that paragraph at all? I mean, why not just end with >> We don't necessarily. >> Um, we had talked about it at the committee >> and so I really like really was just
talking about I was writing down some of the things we had verbalized but we might not want to commit to them in a policy. >> Yeah. I mean, I think the purpose, as I understand it, of the adding this section is mainly uh for public education purposes. Um to make it clear that this is not a school committee decision and to lay out some of the
complexities that do have to feed into uh what the superintendent and the building leader decide. Right. So, I think that purpose is served if we just end it with the bullets. >> Okay, I'm fine with that, too. >> All right. Do you think do folks think that this is ready to move at least to a
first reading at school committee? Maybe if we check, we we should double check that those the the changes in the earlier sections are actually just codifying um current practice which is thought to be appropriate if that's true. Well, I
think this raises like it opens a can of worms, which is um at the high school co-t talk classes are not available at the honors level. >> And so um >> it's probably a can of worms that should be opened, but you know,
>> I think that we should probably maybe ask Bella to take that to Anthony and sort of like, you know, this is the way it's written right now >> and what do you think about that? I don't think it's an issue at the elementaryaries. I think it's only an issue at the um high school.
>> Yeah. >> I would also suggest that your budgetary feasibility comment at the end might become the sixth bullet and then when you take the paragraph out that way that way we're adding a financial component to the uh not limited to section.
>> I don't I personally would not include budget feasibility in there. I think that like to me that's first off these are not exhaustive bullets, >> but I do not think that budget feasibility we should say we're going to run our classes up because we don't have
um funding for that personally. >> Oh, well, no, that's Well, the other direction that we'd like to we we we realize that opening up another section may uh >> Oh, I see what you're saying. like, oh,
everyone would like to be in classes of 12, but we're not going to do that because we don't have >> Well, yes, Mar, that's the far end of it. I You went farther than I did. Okay. I I was thinking I was just saying that yes, that's true. But but there is a
financial component. Um just like teacher experience is a component. The potential budgetary implications >> are a are a um are are a guideline that a lot of people are going to think about like you know if you have empty
classrooms if if you have not you know uh you have to have another section because as you say you have 22 kids or 20 kids but your classroom is only big enough for 15. So you got to go to two of 11 each or something. So that's a budgetary thing because you got another room and you've got utilities and you
got another teacher and blah blah blah. So I'm just suggesting that if this is as Andy said particularly designed for people to understand how we how we approach class size and sectioning I think the financial part of it should be
alluded to somehow. >> If it doesn't >> Bella's hand is up. >> Yes. >> Hi. So, so there's no class guidelines for the high school and you want me to ask Anthony about how that how that has
worked for them? >> No, the thing to check in with Anthony about are the implications of um Betsy, are you scrolling up to that um >> that thing earlier? Yes. um >> this paragraph here, >> that paragraph there, um
in particular, the uh the marginal comment there is what's um draws attention to the issue here. Um, it it can be challenging. It it can be challenging for for us at the high school.
>> Can you repeat that? I didn't hear it. >> It it that this can be challenging, >> but this is current policy. So that's why we're asking like given that it's current policy, how do we manage that? >> I don't know that it's any different
anywhere. It should be it. It's just sometimes there isn't an agreement. >> What do you mean by sometimes there isn't an agreement >> about what the appropriate placement is? >> But I think my issue is that it says all classes and sections are open to all
students. >> Yeah. And that's not necessarily the it's not necessarily that there's a disagreement over placement. it's that a student who might wish to take an honors class or AP class and is qualified to do that cannot because you know the co-eing
model doesn't exist for that class and providing that could be you know extremely costly >> well if someone is qualified for it and with support they could do it I think that's something that should happen I I don't know why if a student is is
qualified fight for it that they wouldn't be able to do it. >> Yes. >> But that's what's happening is students who have co-taught classes on their IEPs are excluded from taking those classes. So I think many of us agree with you, but that's not what happening in practice.
>> Yeah, but it but it might be even with that support, they're not able to be successful. So there's other factors, but I would think >> Val has her hand up, but I don't think that that's what's going on here. >> Okay. No,
>> she's muted. There you go. >> I'm not sure if I'm allowed to speak. >> I think you are because we're sub quorum for the school committee as a whole, right? Or I don't know, Betsy, you're the >> There's still only four of us here. >> Yeah. >> But is that okay, Betsy? According to
Okay. Yeah. So, I just wanted um to add for sort of Bella's con context when um IEPs get developed between 8th and 9th grade, my understanding is that
anybody who um had a onetoone parah in uh K to 8 and was successful in any level of academics in K to8 with a 1:1 um that seems to track automatically to co-taught classes. So I think that's the context with which
this comes up is that um that seems to be the the lane that gets uh assigned to kids who may have been performing quite well academically in the K to8 setting um with heavy support.
Uh, and that's just it. You know, I I I don't know legally or the barriers and and there certainly would be financial, but I just wanted to give context for um I think what happens uh at that transition from those meetings that
happen in in 8th grade. So there so students are going to co-t talk classes and are you all suggesting that they they would be able to access different classes if they were to continue to have their oneonone?
I think what I at least what I have heard is that there are students who would be able to do honors work if they were in a co-taught environment with a special educator but because there are not co-taught honors classes they are
essentially not able to access those classes. >> Okay, >> got it. So, it seems it would be valuable to have um yeah, Anony's input on because it's not this isn't something we're proposing to add to the policy. It's in the policy. Um and you know,
anecdotally, we're not ne necessarily able to live up to this paragraph right now. Um and so just what his perspective is on uh on the difficulties here. >> Okay. Okay, I got it. >> Yeah. So pending that it seems to me
that this is about ready to like be looked at by the full school committee. >> I agree there >> already been quite a bit of work and discussion on >> I would like to go back and just refresh my memory or confirm with Susan and Megan that that wording about the K1 transition is okay.
>> Um I'll go look in my email and see, but if not, we can definitely check because I just I don't want it to go to policy to the committee without confirming they're okay with that. >> Okay. Um do we do we want to take a vote now to um to not necessarily recommend the
policy but at least to bring it up for a first reading um you know pending what we learned from uh from Anthony and Mariah your checks. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All right. Um Mariah >> yes. >> Jesse
>> yes. >> And I vote yes as well. >> Can we do something similar with the other one? Presuming Bella gets an a thumbs up from the building directors. >> You mean the the pledge of allegiance one? >> Yeah. >> Uh do we feel ready for that one? I think that's all right.
>> I would move that again. Like if Bella's like, "No, actually they had more substantive feedback, we could bring it back. But if they're like, "Yes, it's okay." Then I would move it ahead for first reading. >> Okay. Actually, before we just want to be clear on what we've just voted. So we did make a couple of changes in the last paragraph, right? So, we agreed to
remove um that last everything after the bullet points. And then Jesse suggested adding another bullet about um do we want to add a bullet about finances? And if so, how do we want to word that? >> I thought it was something like um
budget. >> Jesse had wording. He said it out loud at that moment that I liked. >> Budget constraints. I think it was um financial implications, but I mean at the end of the day, I guess Betsy can go back to the recording to see what phrase
I used exactly. >> Okay, I'll do that. >> Okay. So, that's what we've just voted. Um sure. Does anyone want to move the um the pledge of allegiance at least for a first reading? >> Yeah, I'll move it. >> Um I'll second. Mariah,
>> yes. Jesse, >> yes. >> And I vote yes as well. Um, okay. So, that brings us to the end of the policies that were on the agenda today. Um, I do have a couple of items of new business. Um, and anyone else who wants to raise new business can do that
now as well. Um, basically it's about uh like workflow and scheduling. So, first thing is that um the MOA that we reviewed in school committee recently with the town uh calls on the school committee to um you know continue and complete our review of the fiscal
section of the policy manual uh and to quote unquote document any changes. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but we're supposed to get it done by March 1st. uh but which I assume that that means that we're supposed to pass the policy or be on the brink of that and be able to say like here are the ways in
which it differs from what was there before. Um so I think we need to definitely set up a a timeline and a workflow for getting that done cuz that's a huge uh a huge section. So Mariah, you've taken the lead on this in the past. Um so what are you thinking about the best way to proceed here?
Also, how much work should finance be doing and how much work should policy be doing on this one? Um, it's my plan to bring the draft to Susan in the next couple weeks. We can look at it and then it could go to a joint finance policy in
maybe early December, >> early December, >> which the timing is rough because they're going to be full on into budget season at that point, but >> it doesn't get better before March 1st. I would just highlight though that the MOA doesn't have us to it doesn't require us to have actually voted anything by March 1st. It just requires
us to document what we're up to. So, >> still I just want to get this done. >> Yeah. I mean, if we can get it done, we may as well get it done uh before that before that. >> Yes. My plan is to have it um maybe we could have the Do we have something for the December finance meeting? And if
not, can we docket it? I'm sorry, the December policy meeting. And can if not, can we docket it for that? >> Yeah, I don't think there's anything specifically scheduled yet for December. So, okay, that would be a good meeting to uh to put this in. Okay. I >> do you think it would Do you think we can dispose of it in one meeting? I
mean, it's a it's a it's a monster. >> I actually think we can probably get through a lot of it because the thing is that like the last time I did it, I I I gave more deference to the current policy. And with the years of wisdom,
quote unquote, that I've gotten since then, I don't think I would do the same. And so I think I would adhere much more closely this time to the mass school committee policy. Um, and so I think I would do that with some
smaller tweaks. So I actually think that like we could probably get through it at least as a first like we could get through the whole thing now. If people want changes or additions to be made, we probably have to come back, but like we can get through the whole thing in one sitting. >> Okay. Um, but we should clear the decks
for that meeting and not have >> I think so. Yeah. based on what happened last time. Um, >> and I think too that like what would be really helpful from for me um is is if the I don't know if we can do this with OML, but this is what I would like is if
the two of you were willing to look at the finance policy and tell me what you thought was good policy and what wasn't or just tell me what you like and care about like what you think is good policy. >> Well, we we work independently on it, Andy and I, and then send you input. That's not an OML issue, right?
>> Well, I think because you're sending it to me, but like I think we just need to do a little bit of offline. >> So, I I guess we're I'm just going to ask you if you can do that and then I won't share your results with each other, but I would appreciate that kind of input of what parts of the current finance policy you think are really
valuable. >> And so, like should should we be looking at the the but when you talk about the current one, do you mean the current draft? >> No, I mean Brookline section D as it exists now because basically I'm not going to I'm going to only take the like
meest like the minimum from our current section D. Remembering that like a lot of that policy is from the is 40 years old and so it predates the education reform of 1993 or four whenever that was. So um >> so should I even bother going back and
trying to look at sort of the last stage that the draft reached? Don't bother because my mind's in a different place now. >> And um I just want to know if there's anything that you're like, "Wow, this is so great. I love this." That's all I want to know >> in the current one that we'll get from the current policy manual.
>> Correct. The current Brookline policy manual. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We Yeah. >> How soon do you need that input? >> Um in the next week would be helpful because I'm starting to like pick through it all now and put it all together. >> Okay.
All right. Okay, great. So, thank you. We have a timeline and workflow for that. Um, so I just >> see just so I know, will you um is it possible for you to just flag that policy meeting to Susan? Whatever that date is, >> the December meeting that is.
>> Yeah. >> Yes, of course. Y >> Thank you. >> All right. So, then we should figure out what we're doing at our next meeting. Um so something we do have to take up is the competency determination. Uh so that meeting will actually be a joint one with curriculum. Uh so we can get it all
get it through both subcommittees in one sitting. Uh Robin Benoy thinks that it shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to discuss that and so we do have time uh to take up a couple of other items um in November. Um I think the two policies
that we had um noted for November were the civil rights policy and instructional materials. Um so if if it's all right with the other members, maybe we can plan to spend 30 minutes on competency determination, 45 on civil rights, and 45 on instructional
materials. And Jesse, you're taking the lead on on that one, which is partly about integrating the uh MASC uh model policy with with ours, right? >> Wait, you're spending We have a two-hour meeting.
>> No. Uh oh, did I Yeah, sorry. I I didn't I screwed up. I meant 30 just so we touch on all of them. We may not get through everything, but >> so just just so I'm clear then, um, instructional materials is the one you're talking about having me look to
the model in the MASC one for Brookline. Is that what you're saying? >> Right. I mean, I think you you may have been the one who raised it at our first meeting as that was something that we needed to take a look at. >> Well, it came up at the resolution at the May 1st meeting of last year, this
year. May 1st, 2025 meeting. That's when the instructional materials thing came up. >> Yeah. Um, and yeah. Okay. And then the civil rights one was one I had given you. I handed you the work that I had done. So is that that's on your plate still? Right. >> Right. So that's that's on my plate to
kind of coordinate uh the the various drafts that we've gone through and figure out uh what we can move forward. >> Right. So that I believe is there's some requirement out there that we get that done. Right. In other words, >> it's different than like even finance.
that finance we don't do for I mean okay theou is pushing us to do it but even if there was none finance could sit but I think the civil rights one there's some Rebecca had said that there was some mandate or regulation we're supposed to have it done.
>> Yes. Uh there it's not like a a strict deadline but uh it is something that we we definitely should get done as soon as we can. >> All right. So I'll I'll look at so I'll just make a note here. I'll look at the instructional materials one. Okay, I think the in we don't have one
>> if I recall section I or something. I don't believe we have one. There's some >> some stuff embedded in um I'd have to look it up right now. There's some something embedded in uh in our in our policy about
curriculum or something. I don't know. I I'll go it. It's It's back from May, so I really haven't paid much attention, but okay. No, thank you for reminding me about that one. I will I will follow up on that one while I'm also going to do that finance one review that Maria asked us to do.
>> Um, okay. Any other new business? >> Um, yes. >> Hi, Bella. Go ahead. >> Sorry. Um, we do have a request that maybe you would take up the um, code of conduct
policy um, for possible revision. I thought in talking with Karen maybe we would provide some draft language for it. We don't have any prepared at this time. >> Okay. Yeah, that's something that had come up last year. Um, and we couldn't
get a handle on it because it wasn't even clear. It wasn't even clear what kind of policy it was, right? And where we could get some purchase and you know what needed revision. So if um if staff in working with it have clearer notions about what
should change um that would be really helpful cuz Yeah. >> All right. Thank you. >> We we sort of talked around it last time without ever really coming to grips with it substantively. >> Okay. So we we're just in practice we think maybe there it would be helpful to
have some revision. So, I just wanted to put it on your on your radar. >> Okay. Um, >> and is that is that um for that's for teachers and staff >> for students? The code of conduct for
students. >> I definitely have some things that I'm interested about the code of conduct. >> Code of conduct for students. Okay. >> It's um J >> in J. Okay. Yeah, that's what I found. >> Page 59. And on
um I'm sorry, Jay. What? >> It starts on page 59 through >> page 59. Oh, yeah. I haven't I was in a different policy manual. So, >> okay. >> So, that's code of conduct for students. How does this interrelate with the handbook? Student handbook.
>> I'm sure there's a reference to it in the handbook. Yes, the student handbook references it. It does not duplicate it. >> Right. I remember Mariah we had this discussion last year about that. Yeah. >> Student. Okay. Student code. So this is student code of conduct.
>> Yes. >> Student code of conduct. So this so this includes what things like like activi you know what like late night activities travel hazing bullying I mean
what what dress code I mean is it everything >> I mean >> in particular I'm like we're interested in the section on suspension >> okay that's what it' be good to know what
>> thank you for the clarification Okay. >> So, another policy that um we'd heard from the some principles that it would be useful to take up was attendance. Um and that also sort of didn't move forward last year, but I I think some of
the principal at least were saying that um you know it would be useful um yeah basically it'd be useful if um they had more tools at their disposal um including a loss of academic credit for uh for missing too much school. Um and
so that you know that uh that didn't move forward last year not because there was opposition but because we got overwhelmed with other things to do. Um but if if that's still something that uh building leaders want us to take up um then I think we probably will have time
for that as well. >> I think um yes I've heard it brought up. >> Mhm. >> Um whether whether staff have leadership to work on it might be the question. But I would definitely put on the list. The
change might be as simple as, you know, just adding like a phrase saying that that it could that the consequences could include loss of academic credit. Um, so if it's something like that, then it wouldn't necessarily take up much staff time. Um, >> okay. >> Yeah.
>> Um, so so Bill, is this a um you're looking at like an upgrade of the current student discipline like JIC? Is that what we're referring to? um >> like to review the current suspension
policy rules and notices and removals and stuff. Is that what >> I think is it's just some mod some editing to it. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Mariah has her hand up. >> Um
>> I didn't mean to cut you off, Jesse. >> No problem. Can you remind me um is is the um is the Oh my gosh, I'm losing my words
at this moment. The use of isolation rooms in code of conduct as well or is that elsewhere? >> Um I'd have to look at it. >> Okay. because I I think or I thought that the state had just or or is about
to update um guidance on use of isolation rooms too. So, it might be good to check on where that's at. And there's also some thoughts I have on that one too if it's not in code of conduct.
>> I doubt it would be in code of conduct. Um >> it might be somewhere else in that section, Jay, though. I guess maybe I'm getting the word together. >> I mean, I'm scanning I'm scanning the topics and I don't it's not obvious. >> I don't recall seeing it anywhere. >> Yeah, it Bella, just for some context,
at least my reading of why we had such trouble um coming to grips with the code of conduct was it wasn't quite clear what kind of policy it is, right? Like there there are at least three main aspects to it. One of them is it it lists like desired norms of behavior.
Okay. And then number two, it also has procedures and protocols for how we respond to instances of misbehavior. And then number three, it spells out consequences for for some of this stuff, right? So that's all in what we call the code of conduct, but some of it is
really about how uh how the schools respond to, you know, possible violations. Um and some of it is yes, like here's how you should act and then some of it is yes, here's consequences for misbehavior. So it's all one big it's all there in one big heap and it's
kind of hard to get our hands around it. >> Yeah. In our last discussion about isolation though Andy it was not related at all to punishment or discipline. It was related I think it when I had the discussion with Lisa about the Driscoll. It was about um students who needed time
outside the classroom because of particular challenges they had. >> It wasn't code of conduct. >> Yeah. So Betsy seems to be highlighting physical restraint um in >> or is that an E >> E? Yeah, in support services section
number five. >> That doesn't seem to be the right place. or >> well I think it would be helpful um to just check with Karen on whether the state has or maybe Val do you know has the state done the update on the isolation
um room use yet >> I thought they did that already >> that's what I thought too but I don't think it's got it's gotten reflected in our policy so >> the last update was 2022 so doesn't sound like it Okay. So, yeah, if staff can give us
pointers about like what what specifically in in the vast code of conduct um you'd like us to look at. >> I think actually we were looking at a more um discreet portion of it. >> Yeah, that'd be great. >> Now, I feel like I opened Pandora's box. >> I'm happy if we don't revisit the thing
as a whole because that was you said you said the key word you mentioned Bella was suspension, right? So, if we focus on that, I think >> parameters for suspension. >> Yeah. And there is may not be comprehensive of now. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Oh, good. I didn't mean to open the whole thing. >> All right. So, I think we can end only four minutes behind schedule. So, thank you all for your work. Thank you, Bella, for being here. >> Our next meeting is scheduled and our
next meeting is scheduled for when, Andy? >> I think it's now going to it's going to be November 18th. that that was our original meeting date for November and it's now going to be partly a joint meeting with curriculum. So the first half hour probably will be joint with curriculum where you take up
the competency determination but then curriculum will leave and we still have time for uh policy take up the two students >> five right five on the 18th which is just before town meeting starts so we'll be done on 6:30 that's fine thank you
coming okay >> thank you >> thank you >> Bye >> bye Amen.