##VIDEO ID:QJcP1CfJ0Qg## welcome everyone to the what's today January 27th 2025 meeting of Poli and subcommittee today's agenda is um hacked we're spending the first two sessions on uh a possible civil rights policy for PSB which will um take the place or complement or be part of what is currently j6 in our policy manual and then we will go on to a brief discussion of possible revision to our building safety policy and a brief discussion of a possible generative AI working group um before we do that let's just have a quick possible approval of the minutes do I have a motion for that so moved I second it Jesse your vote I Carolyn yes and I vote I as well okay I think Sarah's on oh Sarah well Sarah hi no vote for you um yeah I'm not on this subcommittee yep Andy Lou is on the subcommittee as well but he is not able to make it today so the bulk of this meeting is I'm going to share a document right now is on a possible student civil rights policy um and I'm going to turn it over to Lisa for an introduction great hi there let's see hi Sarah so good to see you nice to see you well Matt Claire Christy Becky and I all appreciate the opportunity to be with you and after I make some introductory comments I'll turn the presentation over to Matt and then to Becky first I wanted to introduce Becky to the to the committee um Becky is our district consultant who launched homeg ground Consulting in 2024 after three decades of uh fostering welcoming workplaces Colleges and Schools through civil rights compliance equity-based decisionmaking and proactive diversity and inclusion efforts um under her leadership from 2015 to 2024 the Boston Public Schools office of equity addressed thousands of student and employee requests for assistance including investigating student and employee concerns applying an equity lens to key initiatives facilitating inclusive team building responding to a accomodation requests mediating conflicts and training and coaching principles and department heads Becky's PRI work also includes 15 years as director of training at the Massachusetts commission against discrimination mcad where she delivered hundreds of internal and external training programs uh including an award-winning 12 Day mcad certified course for equal employment opportunities so thank you for being here with us um regarding the agenda at hand did set the table um we understand that creating policy is the responsibility of the school committee and we also understand that District policies provide that robust framework for the work of District staff in developing and implementing protocols and skills-based training and age appropriate instruction so as such our team really focused our civil rights work focused on developing clear standards and procedures but in the interest of full transparency we quickly realized that our efforts kept leading us back to what is written in current policy and so we did make the decision to create some suggestions for the committee's consideration some suggestions can be considered small and others can be considered more substantive we did not address employee relations as they relate to policy and procedure but we know that our director of Human Resources Alvin Cooper does want to mirror uh both policy and District procedures he may be someone to include in the future and to date we have not made any proposed changes to the code of conduct so as we're thinking about complimentary elements um I did want to say that in general Brookline has gone above state and federal law in our policies and procedures and as students are a work in progress this perspective is very much appreciated I think it's part of make what makes Brookline wonderful and in thinking specifically about students civil rights we really want to address those microaggressions and other beh behavior in its more minor form so that we have a chance to educate our students in the learning process before Behavior escalates students civil rights policy and procedures are closely linked to the district's bullying prevention plan and this plan requires a review every two years a timely complement to our civil rights work and when you hear from mat next you'll undoubtedly hear that um um the proposed edits to the plan are not substantive for your consideration more focused around the universal screening work that we've been doing in our schools and then once you've heard from mat we'll turn things over to Becky with your permission um and we can begin by reviewing either the policy as it's um shown on the screen or we can begin with our protocol and procedure work whatever you think makes makes the most sense um and um we hope that the suggestions that we've made will become part of the the backbone of uh a backbone document so that we can continue to ensure that PSB Remains the welcoming and affirming place for for uh all students and staff to work and learn so with that thank you and take it you um so you see on the agenda we have a number of things for everybody to review um I'm going to start with the The Bullying prevention intervention form um as a note for a little bit of context so each of these forms that you're going to see here we we're pretty um uh deep in the the process Orly not finalized but so you know bution plan the incident reporting form that you're going to look at yes so right now I'm going to talk about the buing prevention intervention form yeah but just for context with all the things that we're going to show you so you know we have sof feedb sorry I'm sorry okay are you the form of yes yes and the other so this plus the other things that Becky are going to talk about okay um so you know School leaders have seen all these and had an opportunity to provide feedback uh central office leaders had a chance to look at and provide feedback um we've presented them recently to Jennifer King one of our attorneys to be able to review and provide feedback um uh yep as Lisa um these are offered um as part of um well specifically with the bullying prevention intervention plan so we update this every two years as part of our policy we have an open feedback period for the community we're currently in that feedback phase right now so last week Dr B shared this out with families um and with staff when we did that we actually presented all of these documents Becky's going to talk about today the families that were in that open feedback period right now um and taking a step back sorry sorry I have a quick question yeah so I think it's it's confused because there's differences in wording and I'm I'm guessing I can see where so our agenda says bullying prevention form correct that should say bullying prevention and intervention form or plan sorry say bullying prevention intervention plan it's a typo yeah okay that was confusing y y thanks y thank you um and that's really important uh because that is what we're looking okay otherwise I feel like looking at the wrong thing okay absolutely yes um and and that that's a super important distinction and the purpose of this plan that we're looking at is ATU as the the title describes uh for us to describe detail the work that we're doing to vent respond um intervene on bullying and retaliation um so you know um this plan in terms of implementation in buildings you see that principles are designated as to people to implement a plan that said when we in true for allil rights also with bullying that definitely is a community approach so all leaders throughout the district have a really important role when we think about this work our Educators our students our families who all play important roles you'll see that um in this plan just just to pull back for one more moment so in policy j7 The Bullying prevention policy there's a section section three that's not doc at this meeting but just to frame what you're discussing which is stockhead in this meeting that is the district prevention and intervention plan that says the superintendent and or his or her design shall oversee the development of an a bullying prevention and intervention plan which is this correct that is updated by annually yeah so the this plan is not um within the the perview of the policy subcommittee that's within the purview of the PSB Administration correct so you're just just for the clarification sub commmittee and anyone watching you're presenting this for the broader context correct this is something that's submitted by PSB Administration and fulfillment of j73 the district prevention and intervention plan yep okay for broader context correct okay sorry I just want to just to what this is part of in terms of the policy subcommittee okay go yeah AB absolutely and so um and sort of um as you look through uh the plan obious we're have time to do that uh the this evening but um at the top part of the plan we describe the resources that are available to all our schools to prevent responded bullying uh Lisa then referenced um where the most substantive changes are so if you held this drafted this version up against the the the plan that was developed in 2022 you'd see the most substantive changes we're talking about what would we actually doing to try to prevent bullying in our schools and so you'd see references in prek through five second step that's an curriculum that we use with students you see increases referencing to the restorative justice work that Christie is is leading a ton of within our buildings um you're going to see increased reference to advisory programming within middle school and the high school and then what spelled out in really concrete way uh ways that are um health and wellness classes what specific um lessons are are related to buling vention um and then in sort of previewing what Becky is going to talk about more here you'll see the processes for reporting bullying staff students Educators principles um you're going to see processes that we then use for responding to allegations for bullying and's going to talk a little bit more about that and at the end um we describe what supportive measures can be put in place when a student experiences bully bullying then also what next steps are for um students who engage in bullying be um so that's sort of the broad outline for the plan but any any questions that folks have in that in that description that was great okay great I guess I guess my question has to do with uh is there some opportunity at some other meeting to look at the quantitative piece behind this I know the state requires it but say are there you know are there two bullying incidents a year in the district are there 202 are there you know 90% of the high school 10% of elementary schools flipped around the other way so there's a reporting requirement where where as per the current I believe there's a required submission by by this month right by by January every year Mar somewhere June June of every does it say January we'll we might we might do it in June but it might not be do like you might have to report it in January for the previous year so might be slightly early but typically historically we presented um those data in June well and you may be right cool we'll get to it later but there there's a there's a policy requirement for when that report is due to subcommittee for the for exactly that reporting so the subcommittee has like last year's yeah or so or the year before is January like the June and year January was five and we'd be happy to come back and and Report out on that as well especially as we're transitioning to our new forms yeah thank you yes yes thanky all right so as Lisa said earlier as we started to work together on the pro protocols um for the district June and the forms that would be helpful um both for folks reporting concerns as well as the folks charged with investigating concerns we realized there were some gaps in the um student C rights policy would you like me to start by talking about some of the key changes in the policy or would you like me to first introduce the forms um I have a question but Stephen go ahead uh go ahead with your question Caroline um well it's a sort of an answer to Becky's question with a question okay um so the civil rights now I'm seeing something that says bullying prevention and intervention plan is this civil rights policy within no no that's okay so this just thank and is did we have something called a civil rights policy before is this brand new or or um So currently updated we have j6 which is our closest policy so far as I know which is our policy against discrimination harassment sexual harassment and retaliation so so I guess the first question is is this intended as a whole rewrite of j6 right and it incorporate some other pieces as well for example the 504 accommodation section is also pulled from you so I what I try to do is put everything in one place and you're going to hear that as a theme tonight that in General trying to make things as easy to find as possible as consistent as possible as checklist oriented as possible because the feedback I was getting from school administrators is we don't know where we're supposed to look for what we can't find it we we do it this way the other school does it the other way but we're not sure who's doing it the right way um and you know these are coming um challenges in this Arena so we aim to have things as consistent as possible clear as possible as few documents as possible um so that things will be easy to find for the so this would replace completely j6 which I apologize I don't have in front of me the title Stephen is it's it's this right here it's policy against discrimination harassment sexual harassment okay okay and then I'm sorry but I'm gonna ask another foundational question because Becky just kind of spoke to it and maybe it's a bigger question for later um I've had kids go through the high school berkline high school so I'm a little bit familiar with the handbook which is enormous and has a ton of this type of stuff in it much of which is like Student Government generated and so I am curious without distracting this now sort of um how how how this sits in relation to mostly the BHS handbook that has a ton of its own sort of rules as well as protocols don't have to answer now but that's a question that's I me I'm not familiar with the handbook but the piece I can speak to is that the folks at VHS are very excited about these changes because they are eager for to have it be able to easily find what they need to be assured like okay we did all the steps we did number one two three four and a very um user friendly format um so I know that the folks on the ground there are really eagerly anticipating they're they're asking when is this going to go into effect so um that's the part I can speak to I don't know if you want to say anything else about the handbook can I make a suggestion for how we proceed now absolutely I think it would be helpful just for two more introduction three comments from from you all one is why the reorganization instead of following this reorganization and two with what are we being brought into compliance specifically with this rewrite that we were not previously because there weren't any additional legal references in this document and then I think we should just go Section by section and get through as much as we can in this this meeing great um I remember your second question so I'm going to start with that one about compliance so um as Lisa said earlier the goal is for the public schools of Brook line to go above and beyond what the law requires why is that well one reason is because we want to be an affirmatively welcoming District right we don't just want to say well you know we followed the rules isn't that enough we we want to make sure that we're we're going above and beyond for our students and for every member of our community but it's also because um when student conduct is off track we want to address it the moment it goes off track not wait till there's a legal violation right so I'll give an example there are some behaviors that we might consider a microaggression we don't want to ignore the microaggression because if we do it sends a message it's okay to be ignorant in this moment and then when we get to the behaviors that are more serious that could be a policy violation we don't want to ignore those in they could become a pattern of behavior that's much more serious right so sooner we address conduct that's off track the better a school environment we have but it's also protective of the district in terms of liability under the law as well so one of my beliefs about this work is you'll notice that in the policy there's very little reference to the law what that what's important here is did the student violate the policy we're not trying to make a legal determination and that's for a few reasons one is it's not great to make an admission like oh we violated title six we don't want to make those admissions that leaves the district vulnerable but even more importantly we are not a civil rights enforcement agency we are not a judge a jury we actually don't have the authority to make a legal determination so the goal here is to assess student Behavior based on the policy rooted in the law absolutely consistent with the law but not trying to make legal determinations um at this level does that make sense I think so Sarah Henry go ahead Sarah sorry I couldn't take myself off mute for a second um that makes a lot of sense to me I just don't really understand when it comes up because I I very much understand when we're training teachers or when teachers are trying to direct a conversation and they're thinking in real time that that they that they will be thinking about these issues but as a policy where is it needed to have this written down as a policy not sure I understand your question so I I I I get discipline right like you would go to your policy in order to decide how to characterize what went wrong in the classroom and you would say like oh here I can sa it in our policy that this is what went wrong how else would a policy be used because my thought about school culture is school culture you get at by having well-trained teachers by having conversations in classrooms it's something that happens you know EV every day this school culture and following up on it what's the relationship what's the procedure that happens because of this policy that you're looking for what's the outcome of this policy that you're looking for okay I I'll do my best I think I understand your question but I'll check when I'm done whether I've answered what you're looking for so I think the policy first of all communicates something about what our values are that um as a district as a school as a classroom this is who we want to be to one another we want to be a place where um every student feels they can flourish that they're respected for who they are that they're affirmed for who they are so it's a statement of values and that's that opening commitment that's on the screen right now second it's trying to clar verify as much as possible what the rules are here are things that are not okay to say or do to someone else um in your classroom on your football field Etc um so it's trying to make clear um what the rules are what's what's okay and not okay and if there is a concern what are the steps we're going to take to find out what happened and to address it appropriately so it's about um values it's about clear expectations it's about clear guidance for how we address issues um and uh it's about what our individual rights and responsibilities are whether we're a student whether we're um an educator whether we are a custodian an administrator no matter what our role is what is our what are our rights and what are our responsibilities in terms of student civil rights okay and how we get there is through um a lot of the work that Matt does is the social emotional education and all of that that's the that's where we go to next of how we get to these goals absolutely that's part of it um I think having uh each school have at least one person hopefully at least a few people who are familiar with the protocols so that they're ready to respond when concerns arise is another piece and in the long run um I think everyone's aware that we are trying to hire full-time person to carry on this work I hope that that person will also engage in broader prevention efforts that are specifically aimed at bias prevention prevention of sexual misconduct and you know I'm looking forward to um even even if it's in a very small way um supporting the district to head in that direction so we're not just waiting for problems to happen we're affirmatively particularly at the middle and high school level um encouraging our students to know what constitutes acceptable and unacceptable ways of relating that's that's exactly what I wanted to hear thank you very welcome I I just want to make sure I understand a point and then let's move it to the substance so we can solid hour on this so when Dr Giller presented this to me I I I understood that that there was work being done on on bring the policy into compliance with new title 9 regulation was that not correct is it mostly really about strengthening the culture that is being promoted through this policy and roine or is there also legal legal requirements that we are broad to C yeah so there were some things that were missing that were and I will highlight those for you that are bringing the policy into compliance the Title Nine question is a little complicated at the moment because originally we were aiming to make sure the policy was consistent with the Biden Administration revisions to the title 9 regulations which are now pry much out the window um so we're going to have to see how things evolve so for the moment what we're trying to do is the right thing I see okay then as we go through it maybe you could help highlight how each section is being specifically strengthened from the previous absolutely to promote the culture along the lines of what you stated absolutely so I'm going to highlight uh one two three four seven areas where we made some I think significant changes some changes were you mind doing it section by section or would you prefer I think I organized it that way so so I think I'm going to be able to do that so okay if you go everyone should have go Jessie um Carol want asked for a clarification about what what we were looking at and it was a bulling prevention and intervention plan but this is not okay that's the thing that's being said got but that's not really something we need to approve of that's just yeah we're just looking at should read it memorize it for we're just looking at the student civil rights policy which is submitted for our consideration right potentially to replace j6 or as or potentially sections that repace sections under j6 well the version that we're looking at I tried to highlight each section to to say what it mats to under j6 so so if it would help maybe you could look at j6 or I could flip back and forth um Stephen Caroline's hand is raised go ahead Caroline um sorry it just it is a lot to follow here so what's on the screen is different than what's in I'm trying to follow along in my own meeting materials it you got it highlighted it incidents sorry I clicked on so this is the student civil rights policy right that oh okay sorry because that's the bottom one got it yeah um and I really don't want to I know we need to get on with this but I guess I also feel like as a Committee Member I do have a an orienting question that I that I do want to ask so apologies for continuing to sort of that this is a lot and so and and a bunch of people have been working on this but this is like just just coming to us so I do have the question um which has nothing to do with how much I do or don't um value or appreciate this work so you're saying we want to go above and beyond the law and we worked on this I guess I'm a little confused where the school committee's Authority is to do policy and and now this is sort of this was kind of new to me coming to us for the first time so I'm a little confused about who's the Wii that decided Carol I would say that this by the by the administration as a recommendation from them to the school committee for our consideration that that's how I'm taking this in this meeting yes so I think it would be useful for us to go through it now just to really understand what their recommendations are and since we have this docketed again we could further consider it but it's it's now within our purview to I think understand and consider their recommendations and whether they I understand that I completely understand that and I'm there as a process I guess it's I still don't really understand how decisions were made to go through all of this work outside of school committee but that's just a question and and if it's okay with you I think I'd like to table that question and just get to the substance of this that's fine okay just because we don't have a ton of time and it is a lot of work I understand completely thanks so so Becky if you wouldn't mind starting with absolutely the first section is largely unchanged you can um continue scrolling down actually I think it is it is somewhat different this commandment to non-discrimination compared to what was previously the general statement and the first C because it references the these these uh the vision and then there's there's a difference there's there's different Preamble one supposed to be just general statement policy it's the general statement and it was mostly pulled um there was an interim document um that Claire did a beautiful job working on around a a proposed protocol at one stage and I largely lifted this from that document okay but this this Preble I think is I guess all I really want to ask here is is the the changes made here were they what was the purpose of the changes what were you trying to push them towards so that when we do a more quos reading to compare them to what's here in the first place what should we be considering and how it was changed I think one of the things we'd like to highlight is that pregnancy is a requirement that was missing and so uh that was one of the substantive additions that we made in this commitment statement okay so that was one um I don't believe this section highlighted bringing over the 504 accommodation pieces that's pregnancy was the the main main change so so in the section in section row numeral one of the current j6 yeah not this where it talks about prohibited discrimination and harassment already list quite long list why is in pregnancy just it was missing that no no would it be in that section or is this new commitment to non-discrimination number one taking in everything general statement prohibit discrimination that was my disability discrimination what's that that was my understanding is that how far does it go in terms of I think it goes all the way until a with my read disability discrimination that the Preamble extends until a and again that will be something you'll want to consider and I I'm sure uh with attorney consultation as well but this was our first right I'm just saying that in order to meaningfully compare these we need to be able to look at maybe the tabular fashion or something what is what is this one and then what's this one saying because going back and forth this way is not going to be I guess for the purpose of this meeting I I just 100,000 feet I get it but I mean you know I'm not try to detail it because we won't get past this this one you anything else that you'd want to highlight in this section for our not that I recall um I think you know so for example I well like one more thing you'll see you're in a perfect spot right here right at the bottom of the page where it says um derogatory intimidating statements threads acts of exclusion or other mistreatment regarding students membership in or association with a member of protected group whether made in person or by phone mail email text or other messaging social media posting in most places in the old policy there was no reference to electronic communication which has become obviously very important and our students and sometimes their parents and caregivers don't always understand they think oh that's my phone why would the school have a right to see that I texted this um you know anti-immigrant uh comment to a classmate who is an immigrant so that is another I'd say significant um edit that's throughout the policy making sure to remind our students that this is not just about what you say um in person but it's also other forms ofation so it sounds like that's just an a um an expansion of the word electronic that's already in the policy which probably was covered in 2021 right but it's basically uh being much more explicit exactly right okay what about the section two this also seems like part of the Preamble this wasn't really part of the this wasn't part of so I think what's important in this section first is trying to make sure we have clear definitions of certain terms so and this is um aimed so that we have the same standards for what constitutes misconduct um across schools and that was one of the comments I heard and when I would be speaking with school administrators well you know a student said this at school X and all that happened was you know this happened but at the other school they said X and this whole other thing happened and why whatever so trying to be as clear as we could about what would constitute a violation of the policy is there an extension of the policy is this all is this is this list at the top the top paragraph here the list starting raise Color age is it going to be the same everywhere like for example pregnancy's missing here but hairstyle is still here pregnan is up on tub so is this going to be like should as we begin to identify you welc subcommittee at your service I mean just be identical everywhere okay is it's going to come up yeah it should be identical throughout yeah um Sten Sarah just raised go ahead Sarah beautiful thank you sure so I think the other change that it that was apparent to me was that we used to talk about microaggressions and um harassment and discrim mination and then the other thing that I saw um added here was discomfort and I was wondering where that change came from SAR can you point to where you are um so if you scroll down a little bit further oh sorry this is going to take too long I need to I sorry um I think what I'm going to need to do is refer Carolyn to section um by looking at it separately on my computer um but in in in two could we try one more time you and stop there please thank you um it seems like microagressions are only mentioned in the last two paragraphs of section two okay go down there you you got students sometimes experien and no no and the one above the paragraph about starting student okay if I if I scan it the goal here in this section as well as the section right above it is to give a range of examples of what might constitute a policy violation and a range of examples of what might constitute a microaggression meaning something that could can absolutely be hurtful but is not going to rise the level of a formal investigation for example so the first section just above where the Highlight is right now gives examples of things that would lead to an investigation and be addressed in a formal Manner and the second section of microG questions is um incidents where yes we're going to coach a student we're going to explain maybe we're going to have a lesson tomorrow for the whole class about why that's not the appropriate way to handle um that particular kind of um situation or communication and the reason for this level of detail is that often staff students families are confused about sort of what's a one alarm fire versus a five alarm fire um and of course you know speaking as a mom whose daughter went all the way through the public schools in Boston what sometimes in my heart it feels like a five alarm fire and I have to kind of sit back and say wait that's actually a mic progression right and other times there's some um you know individual students who have a thick skin and they're like oh it didn't bother me and we're like what that is not something that is ever okay please if that ever happens again come forward right so in different situations people have different sense of what's serious and what's minor and we're trying to be clear about some of the things that are actually serious and need to be addressed formally and other things that should still be addressed but not in a formal manner if that makes sense and did you see and did you see that as being apparent in the past policy and um or is that part new that is largely knew the past policy had less level of detail in examples of what might constitute a violation and or what might constitute microaggressions when you brought that forward the language is that our own or is that from somewhere else so you might have caught that on the first page of the policy I do credit the Boston Public Schools um because we did lift some of this not always word for word but sometimes word for word sometimes the gist from Boston Public Schools policies um because those are the ones I'm most familiar with I've put a lot of ears of work into honing them um until I left there recently and they've held up under a lot of scrutiny by you know by desie by um the um office of civil rights for the US Department of Education by the courts they've been tried to and tesed tried and tested and so I feel confident um borrowing from from those policies so that was thank you that's so that's so helpful in this conversation about what's different in this policy versus what we had before so thank you for explaining that you're very welcome Carn do you also have something you want to ask um I did and I don't know if this is going to be the right place I mean maybe this is going to be discussion I'm just I'm very interested in something I think I just heard you say Becky in terms of and and I guess it has to do with implementation of this but this notion that that's that a student could say I'm not bothered by something and I think you said that someone else under this policy could say oh yes that was a microaggression and a policy violation and now it gets reported and a protocol goes into place when a kid is like I don't care is that is that my is that a correct understanding of the suggestion I think what I was saying is something slightly different which is we can't um determine our actions based on how upset someone is in some cases people are extremely upset about something that's relatively minor and we're going to talk to a student say don't ever use that word again it's that's not cool other times a student might be not upset at all about something that's very significant and must be addressed that we have an obligation under the law and under the policy to address it so we can't use people's feelings as a guide to action we can use the policy as a guide to action so when a um getting getting back to the quantitative side that that if this the latter happens who enters the incident form ining on that sorry Jesse I want to follow up if you don't mind I guess and we can again we can discuss this more but I my initial reaction to what being talked about is when you especially when you are talking about what is being called microaggressions and it's really um could otherwise be called you know characterization or interpretation like insulting what's insulting and so I think you're saying that you know somebody else is going to say to a kid oh yes that you were insulted and what if the kid is really like no I'm actually I actually don't feel insulted so I'm interested in sort of understanding more um because it raises a little bit of red flag for me um so well I guess to I mean um I'll I'll just say ask it as a simple example a Jewish kid another a non-jewish kid assumes a Jewish kid also celebrates Christmas tells them in school what'd you get her Christmas I celebrate I haven't celebrate Christmas is that a microaggression that the that the kid just assumed that everybody in the world does absolutely that's a great example get reported so there's no obligation to report that but if it was reported then what we would do is say let's talk about all the holidays that we celebrate in this classroom and let's and maybe we didn't do the best job this year of talking about all the different cultures we have here and and this is a reminder to us as Educators that we want to make sure everyone understands that some children celebrate right but to get to get back to Carolyn's point I would say that the the the Tipping Point is not when another student says to a student oh you celebrated it also and the student says no I don't and then like just to Carolyn's point you just you keep going like okay it was a statement it's like something in the playground you mention it like oh you missed the first step where you can't climb that well you know one time you slipped but but if if it became a taunt right exactly you know it became a you then then we're shifting up to that next level right so I think Carn what you're saying is like something could just be at the level of an insult a mere insult but once it crosses into a derogatory slur that would be a policy violation and even if it's not received by the student who who who had been against whom the slur was plar even if that student didn't feel offended or was able to just Slough it off it's still a policy violation that has to be dealt with as such I basically think there's a lot of gray area trying to that that makes that distinction so that there can be a response by the school that doesn't allow for subjectivity in the response so that we have a way of responding in a standardized way I I if I understand you exactly I hear what you're saying too that there's gray area but if I understand the purpose of this policy is to say at what point does it rise to the level of a policy violation and every well I I you know again we can talk about this more again I've seen this in practice I have 23 cumulative years in the public schools of Brooklyn as a parent 23 different kid years I mean I've seen things happen where somebody says something that is literally innocuous somebody else says oh you're insulting me and then an investigation ensues which is a really big deal yeah I'm looking at the last bullet here I mean what if somebody doesn't know what somebody's preferred gender identity affirming name is or pronoun is that's why it says refusal to use it doesn't say um forgetting to use or not using because you didn't know or whatever it's a refusal kid is going to say I didn't know and then other kid says well I stated it okay so I think this is something we could talk more about when we consider like is there sufficient Nuance in this in this this section of the policy recommendation I I know for instance when we're considering uh hate speech uh prevention recommendations we talked a lot about for instance um use of slurs among members of the same ethnic or racial group whether that could be considered an exception to a category uh of um and how that would be we would carve that off as a as a as an exception how does that F here as written what was that car I guess I'm asking staff how how does that fit in here is that covered here all I mean to say is I think there's a level of nuance or complexity that we can add to this if we don't think it's efficiently nuanced harn so I'm not saying I'm saying that this doesn't have to be the end of our discussion on this I think it's overly nuanced but okay I'll continue listening okay okay can can we go to section three on finding sexual misconduct so I think so section three and section four seems to me to be um replacing sections 1 C and D pretty straightforward and actually was confused about CN and the distinction between the prohibition of sexual harassment and the prohibition of sexual harassment under Title 9 I don't know that I really understand the difference there are only certain forms of sexual misconduct that are covered by Title 9 but as I said earlier it's my recommendation that the policy not directly reference Title 9 that we hold our standard as a district and let others determine whether something is Title 9 violation but this is currently under review by Jennifer King from a legal lens well in any case three is now sexual misconduct towards students and four is the reporting of that sexual misconduct correct so that's what I'm mapping that's onto with our current policy Y is there do you want to just review for us briefly how we strengthen those SE yes I think the most important change in section three is trying to be as clear as possible about what might constitute sexual violence versus more um less serious forms of sexual misconduct and the reason why that's very important is it has to do with making sure that school administrators are very clear of when a 51a has to be filed um it's a really common concern report it exactly when we have to report to the Department of Children and Families that the definition of sexual violence is where we cross that line into mandatory report and it's one of the areas that school administrators feel often the most nervous and vulnerable is like did I analyze this correctly did I need to report this because on the one hand of course they don't want to Sherk their responsibility her mandatory reporting and on the other hand they don't want to over report because of course it's very upsetting to families to find out that their child was reported um to the Department of to families they get you know understandably very concerned does this mean my child will be taking in away does this mean my child will be criminalized in some way so trying to be as clear as possible of what crosses that line into possible sexual violence and therefore needs to generate asking so again by doing it in this way you're responding to requests from school-based uh administrators to put this all in the same policy collecting like One Stop Shop for them ex the reporting requirements okay yeah then really helpful to exactly trying to be have it all in one place where they where in that moment when they get this upsetting disclosure they remember where to look and where to find the guidance that and this section section three this has been expanded considerably is there anything that you want to highlight for us on defining sexual misconduct towards students that's been expanded from the from the previous I'd say the two things are that making as clear as we can that distinction between sexual violence and less serious forms of sexual misconduct and then the same thing we just talked about in section two which is to say very specific examples to try to help guide our school administrators so that they know which things requireed which respect really section four is the reporting I'm just there it is section three well reporting is section four yes but if you go a little higher so now here we're getting that detailed list of what could constitute a violation I see so Carolyn Jesse any questions that you have about section three I know there's a time eror yeah I mean I'll say what I said before it's the first time we're looking at it so it's carine you any thoughts on 15 minutes I'll tell you I I don't see anything I want need to comment on at the moment okay okay more examples are better right I me that's that's clear ex although I'm scrolling through this I do have um go ahead is um does this section include um um phones emails whatever you call it digital communication online communication yes okay electronic is it there again okay let's talk about um oh actually and the reporting part this is actually part of that I'm sorry I misunderstood so this is part of that section where you just specify to whom it's reported such they report allegations it's in the reporting allegations it's like main heading my mistake okay so that's go up just a little bit I do want to highlight that where it says um encourage versus required to report this is an important change so we're encouraging students to speak up or parent to speak up and say something happened that you know was harmful to my child but we are requiring employees that if they become aware that there may have been a bias incident sexual misconduct toward a student they must reported and um this is a very significant change that we are saying that internally in the public schools of Brook line every employee is a mandatory reporter internally not to DCF I'm not talking about IL legal thing I'm talking about internally that if I am a speech therapist and I I'm walking down the hall to my first appointment of the day and I hear one student call another student something very appropriate for a group that they're a member of I have to then go to the principal and say I don't know those kids' names one had shirt one had a yellow shirt and he just called her a b right so we're creating a culture that says we don't just walk by when these things happen and um that piece of it has important implications in terms of expectations of employees and eventually will require us to be comprehensive and training our staff so that they know how to recognize something that triggers that responsibility so and and how is that report reported to a building leader is just that could be the uh the end of the process but what what do they do with it so then the building leader has responsibilities to ensure that it gets addressed where do they enter it that's when we get an internal we created three form it's a PSB form yeah I see they that go so they're required also the building leader would be required yes not encouraged right um if the if the speech therapist comes by and says X Y they're required to turn swivel back to their desk get open up the form from the dsb website and enter it in as building as long as it's a potential policy violation if it's a micro then knock it off don't say that right but yeah tell me if I'm getting this wrong you guys but wouldn't that be under Section G instead of J though if for if the policy is directing um staff doesn't that this is the student section of I'm sorry so the reason that that's here is this is about protecting students from their rights being violated in terms of um protected categories so in it's um we're violating the students rights if we don't but we're directing the staff to act in a specific manner there's there's a separate policy for that I think isn't that staff conduct that's I would I would hope it would be mirrored there right but but I would want to I would want to docket that separately so that it would be in that policy because even though it would be nice to have a One-Stop shop for all bias based and sexual misconduct matters the policy divides it up between directives to students and directives to personel how we did this and and you know there's a lot of possible ways way to do it and you may prefer to organize it differently and that's totally fine but how we were focusing is what are the rights of students and it's the right of students that if an adult hears something happen to them that it will get reported so it's about a student's right you're absolutely right that it has implications for employee expectations so it's kind of one of those what do you do in the v diagram you know but um it's so it I would recommend that it stay here but also be mirrored in employee expectations separately but it's a legitimate like you know very legitimate point is you're right it is about an expectation of Staff in regards to student civil rights I think that's probably something we should consider that's a g I think that's g16 staff conduct so let me just make a note that we might want to either cross reference it or move it okay yeah staff conduct I mean in the masc one is it doesn't even get close to reporting anything just says to really yeah it just expects the school committee expects that teachers and others will conduct themselves in a man that not only likes credit to the school district Al say worth the model worthy of emulation by students that's it this is a significant change expected to carry out your well I think what you have in here is a lot of that's the F right that's for sure I guess you may maybe it should stay here but let's consider whether I mean for now I think merging them in the same one makes a lot of sense until unless we come up with a really strong reason to split it okay um okay then you have the reporting I think toie where it reports to just addresses um okay investigation this is a section that exists this is section seven of the current policy and this is also a significant expansion of that section oh no it's actually a pretty big section already so you want talk a little bit about section of section five which would replace the current section seven corrective action record keeping and Report yeah so it's really outlining you can keep scrolling down a bit um the steps that um a school administrator been trained um and how to investigate will take depending on the nature of the allegations it's an outline so it's much more detailed than the protocols that we'll look at later um but it is an outline of the key steps that are needed depending on the nature of the incident okay does it say what the report will include do you mean the what the form requires you to report so I so in section seven currently there's this paragraph about what the report will include at a minimum that says here's why I'm asking so [Music] um you're on the reporting so sorry I'm sorry to in section five investigating possible bias based and or sexual misconduct so in the parallel section section seven of our current policy at the end of it is the is the thing that the school committee receives which is June 15 each year that's when we get the report and it says what actually in the report so it says total number of allegations the the allegations made by a student the number of students etc etc so this doesn't have anything like that in here like what the reporting requirements are what exactly would get reported to the school committee that's a great addition and I welcome on Section no I'm just like I'm losing my mind in in our current policy SE s investigation I have it I'm looking at it no no it's fine I get that where is it in this new where is it okay well that's why I couldn't see that's an oversight on my part I that's a good idea we put that so three paragraphs start in seven at the end of the be reported to okay preparing it's all the part about the annual report right yeah happy to add that okay um maybe an addressing this is the same this is a another I would just add while you're doing it is that it would be useful since it's going to be online where when the public looks at the policy that's a link to the posted in a manner accessible to the general public should be a hyperlink that goes to the page where all these are being stored so they you don't have to like call someone like how do I find it should be immediately available since it's in the public domain got it gets back to the question I asked earlier for last year's love to see last year's um okay making and addressing inves about that so it should be available I think this is still part of the investigation section of the still maps to the same [Music] SE um yeah I had the same comment here that um employees might be a separate section of the policy yeah I mean we organize it based on whose rights are being violated rather than who's engaging in the misconduct um but there are other legitimate ways to organize it and certainly open to the subcommittee's references on that I mean Jesse made Jesse I think made the point that maybe you should all stay in here so so maybe we should consider it that way I don't know carollyn do you have a preference on whether we should keep this all together here or whether we should move Personnel based stuff to section g just off the top of your head or youna I kind of like it like this yeah um I mean I've always found it as long as it's clear that every even though sometimes when I've read this I've been like oh that's kind of weird I mean our previous like the Personnel stuff is in here at the same time as long as there's not then like a whole separate extensive yeah sorry what is g is that Personnel he is personel personel section but it's really not I mean I think Carolyn I'm with you on it I mean I think the the Personnel part all the G stuff is really about just how you do your work as a employee it's not your response to much of anything like you shouldn't you know keep a drug-free workplace don't use tobacco in school uh how you use your personal technology okay here's one um online fundraising activities I mean these things aren't related I like I like the way that you have it words I agreein and here's how you implement it okay but I would add um your paragraph that you put in the note on the right about what was missing that one that had the July the June 15th thing July 15th I'm just saying is that there's three paragraphs of information there we like to have back it starts you know what I mean we it's the last three paragraphs of section six okay we on the home stretch everybody okay this is the new section I think nondiscrimination on the basis of gend agcy there was a separate policy um that would the district had um I think it's still on the website that I dropped in here because it fits as another section of civil rights um I did update and actually shorten if I recall some you tell me what policy that was um probably thanks and you know this piece is one that um I will be curious to see what council says because we do are seeing dramatic changes at the federal level that will be legal decision this was written before yes inauguration yes so to me these are best practic but it will be a legal decision I won't pretend to have you know I am that is that will be that's above my pay gr so but this was written to be consistent with best practices and how we handle these issues in you know 2025 a separate policy on I don't know if technically it's a policy guidance or so if there's a separate something they're looking okay did you find it I'm still looking okay um I know that I drew from something that already existed was this already it is yes but this is the non-discrimination on the basis of gender identity I don't know if it's it says policy well that what's top ncri it's not it doesn't have like noral top stuff BP that it's notation a it says policy here maybe as you never made it it was developed by some this is non-discrimination on the basis of we definitely do not have an approved one it's not in our policy manual so it may have been yes and I can look to see if there were prior discussions and maybe just stalled at some point I could find that I don't know why this would stall because it would have been on the my like list of never got even no but but I had the list of stuff that was stalled that I don't even have maybe it was not stalled but just written and never submitted so it exists somewhere I found that by Googling it so it's definitely in the UN the online universe but the plal status I don't know so I did draw from that I shortened it a bit I updated it to 2025 language um because this is obviously an area that I think we want to know where it came from because um that's important a great question don't know the answer see this document for go ahead question um and sorry there were there were multiple people talking so I didn't follow all of what was just said there um I'm that's not a complaint I'm it's just a statement in gender markers on Student Records for example upon request by transgender gend student whose gender identity is male for example or their parent caregiver if they are under 14 so is that a legal where is the 14 as a as a line coming from that's yeah that's law Student Records law can you say more so the Student Records law says that at the age of 14 the student has additional rights regarding their record but 14 so that's why Becky wrote in that distinction what are the additional rights mean does the law speak to this particular issue it it speaks mostly to access to the student record so what happens when you're 14 as a in terms of access yeah no that's a question what change what's you want to know what change you can refer me to the okay what changes at 14 I we should just reference the the law because because typically we just at the bottom these documents we reference we just provide the legal references so we can insert the legal reference Caroline well I'm asking whether the law is addresses this particular issue because the answer that I just heard was at 14 certain changes happen so I just would like to learn more what what the changes are at 14 and whether yeah law say at age after at age 14 a student can change their gender on their record there is guidance from the Department of Elementary and secondary education Massachusetts um along these lines and it references General law 76 um that is the one that protects students from gend Identity discrimination um just searching for a piece about 14 but if this all of this is consistent with desie guidance I honestly don't recall exactly which is guidance versus regulation versus law and I guess we shouldn't spend too much time on this because this is so in flux right now that Jennifer King may tell us that she recommends we take the entire thing out I have no idea so I don't think we should spend too much time on it because this is seriously in flux and yeah so okay but I can certainly share with you um or or you know you can find it in 10 seconds if you put if you just Google desie gender identity guidance perfect thank you so much you're very welcome okay almost done we have 10 more minutes on this and then we're g to go to our last session um expectant and parenting so this is that piece that is required by law and was missing so I've added it in a very simple what's the law um okay or if you can send it afterwards that sure absolutely that's a memory test but yeah there are requirements in terms of protecting the rights of pregnant and parenting students right um and then this section section nine this is a replacement yes for section in the beginning actually it seems to me for one a so there's an existing which is actually almost almost nothing at all in the current policy it's a disability discrimination and a combination section it's it's it's like two sentences referencing uh one 88 one one long sentence one long sentence but now there's something more in here so there is defition 504 a parent guide to Section 504 um sorry sorry sorry I thought we were on the eight did we just go through eight so eight is a newly compliant section and Becky's going to get us the the legal reference for that section so we know how we're newly complying so I just moved on to section n unless you got a question on eight yeah no similar just to sort of like minor not minor um like um staff must not disclose information about a student expect or parenting status without their permission I'm not saying I think one way or the other but does that includes a 13y old um if it does fine but I'm curious about that because like you'd want to make sure a 13-year-old is getting health care if they were pregnant Etc so that's just where my mind went on that whether there was any sort of age references there I will double check that I don't recall not that I would have wanted my parents informed but I mean I get that it's super personal it's just it's also you know sort of a health issue so just curious so with 504s I did draw on um so there's a document called the parents guide to Section 504 that exists for um public schools of Brookline and uh that's an internal to Brook line document yes and then there's also public schools of Brooklyn Section 504 grievance procedure so I did review the existing documents and draw from them um full disclosure 504 is not my wheelhouse um and I have disclose this from the very beginning right Lisa but it is part of student civil rights and in the interest of keep putting everything in one place we put it here I did the best I could and had the experts review and I'm sure Jennifer will give it for the review well just so the purpose of expanding this section is just to more fully inform uh students with disabilities of their rights correct okay great I'm sure we can run the section by CPAC also and get their absolutely okay and section 10 is a replacement of so there is existing um yeah existing documents that um I tried to draw from here um but again putting it in the same place with all the other student civil rights and I really appreciate the district's policy around category one and two and three holidays I that is a cut and paste from your existing guidance and I it's very well done way to bring it up yeah I I thought it was really well done and think G to be changed yeah well that's fine um but it's a stting place I I shouldn't flag it actually because it's probably where we would review I mean given the school committee's interest in reviewing the definitions of categories here it is yeah and note that it doesn't say which holidays are which that I assume will fluctuate with the demographics of the schools and other yeah um the one in the upper paragraph that was the one that caught my attention the one that said this the uh the one in the middle as far as a reasonable accommodation online fund that that that one um can be actually interpreted in the other direction as well so I'm glad that this is what's in here the opposite of that is is tremendous guidance to the school comme that a reasonable combination is one that would not pose an under meaning in the reverse if it would pose on the district by being underly costly or substantial that it would not be a reasonable comination so that is a that is a lot of yep a lot hanging on that sentence there if we if we go with that sentence that has huge implications and that is mirroring the law um okay but that doesn't mean you can't that doesn't mean it has to be the district's policy but that is mirroring the law right right okay and that thank you oh there's more we're almost there almost there retaliation that also that is that is that is making a section briefer section three has been reduced shocking tried what are you thinking yeah I mean just basically trying to um be clear what could constitute retaliation for any of the first 11 sections that we've already looked at so this applies to all of it you can't retaliate against someone for exercising their rights for reporting something for participating in examples were removed from this session is there any particular reason sorry go ahead I mean honestly I wasn't on my part and if you feel like we need some I could put some in honestly it's very rare um okay very very rare because where it tends to come up is a student will say I don't want to report my teacher for having said this to me because I'm afraid that she's going to give me a worse grade um but proving that that actually occurred it's just extremely rare um so I guess that I think maybe unconsciously that's probably why I didn't put examples in it's just so rare okay um the very last thing is wait wait there were two sections of the policy that did not move over and I just want to ask you about them um they were highed them over here I'm sorry rushing at this point I just want to leave 20 minutes for this last section oh there was these two right here one was something called other prohibited actions which I get it and then here was the real one this one called duties and responsibilities that talks about principles really um it it sort of elaborates the roles and responsibilities principles and then staff um it talks about what the superintendent is responsible for was did you happen to look at the section and determine whether there was anything in here worth retaining or did was this not something that you looked at I be honest it's so long ago that I don't recall but my guess is that I looked at it and did not think it was worth retaining because I did try to look at everything I think some of this might be other yes some of it shows up other places um so you know okay for example the reporting responsibility right there it turns up other places I think we thought it was redundant but but it may the committee May believe it it ease of finding for ease of finding to beated there okay 619 does anyone have 20 seconds worth of questions for Bey else thank you for for share this preliminary yeah thank you for putting so much work into this I I appreciate your orientation of trying to put us Beyond compliance and into a really strong posture with respect I think majority will not all and we're happy to come back and should I spend literally two minutes talking about what those other documents are no no okay we have two other things that we have to get to thank you very much for the conversation all right thank so GNA talk everyone thank you have a good we have two topics to discuss briefly about uh our future work one is building safety policy so um penciled in what are we doing with the rest of two here like theun the form and the this and there's five things here those are just um it's that placeholder for the next preut meeting no those those were those other documents submitted alongside the yeah they're here but I'm saying we didn't read we don't have uh we don't have um like their forms we're not going to look at before they post them I mean what's the no those are just submitted to to help us better understand the Poli I'm sorry for not being clear about that those are just to help us because it even said discussion and possi v i i agenda what I read it under two first line discussion possible vote since well we're I don't think we're ready to vote right on the policy but I I don't think we have any um I don't think this committee should be overseeing forms and protocols just policies so I think um a through D are just there for are elimination so e is the only one e is the only thing that we consider subject sorry for the confusion on that okay I'm learning I could have talk at that a lot better okay safety policy so for two so okay bigger picture is um we're trying to fulfill our promise to the principles to docket everything that they express should be a priority yes two items that they asked for uh in back in August were a consideration of a reconsideration of sro's and a consideration of building cameras so let me just take those both separately so I talked to chair Andy Lou earlier today about sro's and he said he'd like to docket that for the school committee rather than for the PO sub committee for for the full school committee since the we don't we did we have an SRO policy before we did not okay so that makes so I I had thought that since that could be docketed under um building security no student safety excuse me no that's not what they're there for and you would be right okay great and so we are I don't think we need to further discuss sros in this meeting um for the policy subcommittee for the policy okay great Carolyn any thoughts on that um no agree makes sense it was aou or MOA yeah perfect sense thanks yeah I wanted to I just wanted to close the loop on that because it was something the principal had brought up and Andy said he wanted to docket it for sometime trary so yeah I was only gonna say as long as I hopefully it'll be docketed you think it will be dock February is like tomorrow I mean I thought with the budget stuff going on who wants to do once once the budget once the budget season over so that would be like March I think late February was this intention um so the second part was we have a league meeting in February I think there is right um bety we have a late school committee we have a late in February remembering that it would be early March it's not my agative to do at it but um since he said that was nothing last week of February there's a curricul I think the last one is is there school vacation in February somewhere yes but so we'll get there yeah so the other thing is is school cameras so um something we've gotten a number of emails about it's something that's come up in capital it also is covered in policy um and it's covered in the building safety policy so I I do think it's worth us taking out it up and reviewing our policy on this yeah go ahead car oh you're opening them mouth to talk instead of to yawn Carolyn um no I'm squ squinching my hair and yawning so I think um for next week's for the 211 meeting we should uh we should Dock at the uh the building safety policy to review it and to review our policy relating to um the use of cameras and to coordinate that with the the capital subcommittee and with Helen because I know they've taken that up already anyway any thoughts on how and move forward on that just that so do you mean like have Helen come and just debrief us on what capital Did or maybe get us something ahead of time so I think we could either request uh or how I don't know yeah yeah we could we could do anything from requesting a joint meeting with Capitol to requesting just a debrief from one of them on it that's you sus on uh I was just going to say that uh during this meeting H followed up with with me to share some documents that he found yeah um one from Newton uh which talks about cameras and then one from Cambridge as well so we do have some other documents that we those are from policy that's good timing yeah C is definitely a policy okay on surveillance cameras he said that Newton um has a broad policy that references cameras though much of the language details deals with both exterior and interior cameras and a detailed protocol that speaks to the use of information gathered by those cameras so I have both of those that I can I'll start to circulate I just got that would be great it would be great to invite to invite him as well to talk about it yeah to to understand the the case the need for it um do you have a preference that's what happened at maybe people maybe people could even just watch the policy subcommittee discussion which wasn't particularly long I mean rather than us asking how to come I mean I don't mind that but it was like the the the capital subcommittee meeting and Hal's presentation was like cameras were going to be part of the BHS renovation and then they got taken out and we want to put them back in and here's where we want to have them and um and then somebody said like can you get us some you know how other towns kind of the word used wasn't policy but it was like Betsy what word did he use or did Mariah use uh oh what did she use um it's late in the day like a global statement or in any case I'm not sure I want to put Hal on the spot to try to justify I hear you I hear you policy he's just like we want cameras right so point being let's make sure that that meeting is informed by previous meetings and in coordination with capital um let's let's um we have about 12 minutes left and I want to move to the last item on the agenda which I would like to invite Gabe to brief us on it is a a brilliant idea of his and I'd like to invite you to discuss it with us go sure thing um thank you Stephen good to see I say it's also responsive to a principal to request from both principles and teachers so with that go ahead yeah um so for uh folks viewing I'm Gabe McCormack senior director of teaching and learning um and one of the things that we've been talking about is uh generative Ai and District practices and so one of the questions that has come up I would say in ad hoc ways is like is there going to be a district policy on the use of generative AI and I've had some very preliminary conversations with uh Dr Giller and also Steven as chair of policy and um I think especially at this time um my main concern is that that would be Hasty um our academic honesty work all happens at the uh School handbook level it doesn't really happen at the policy level in terms of what's what's cheating or what's plagiarism um schools have abilities to do that and um while there is definitely um um I would say some educator nervousness there is also educator excitement about what the possibilities are for generative Ai and so um part of my hope is to essentially ask you all not to create a hasty policy not that I think we're in the practice of hasty policies in general as the Civil Rights one may be an example of um but to um give us the opportunity to do districtwide learning and exploration and um really think about how we want to address this one of the uh comparisons that an educator gave was you know years and years ago Math teachers had to reckon with calculators and there are Math teachers who said yes this is cheating you cannot use a calculator we ban it and then other Educators figure out no calculators are here to stay we're going to think about how to use them and times when yes we absolutely want to use a calculator and understand the tool and at times when no you need to do this without a calculator and math has figured that out uh the humanities right and my background is is in social studies Humanity Humanities don't know what to do with a tool that can generate an essay and so um yeah we want to take an opportunity to do some learning we have some uh members of the community who have already volunteered their expertise and have offered to either give talks or be on panels or advise um we have some folks who are not directly tied to our community that I've already reached out to through connections at Harvard or Buu and some other places um and then we have a lot of Educators especially at the high school who have been engaged in a profession learning cycle um and have reported real excitement about the opportunity to just learn and see what various tools can do and then um we have a number of folks who I think are interested in learning more and so um really it's kind of the idea of creating a working group we haven't announced anything publicly this is all very early and very preliminary um as you all know we have a lot going on with budget and with uh literacy roll out and other things so um we want to be thoughtful and use the resources that our community has access to in this area Gabe I just Jesse here I just going to mention that I've been in contact with a friend of mine also who has been deeply deeply involved uh in AI um in fact when I spoke to him over the weekend um about this he pointed out to me that at the conference in Hiroshima recently that he presented that the one area that he felt um he he challenged the group I think to not make that he didn't expect any good progress in the next year's education because of these concerns so you're right on in terms of uh it's his challenge to them at the conference was basically you're not the educators are going to keep pushing back and you won't have any you know you won't you you won't solve it yet so I'm I'm talking to him privately to sort of see if I can engage him to see if he might might be willing to you know volunteer some of his time to work with us in the district as well um he's you know very involved originally from MIT and um his own company and Google and all kinds of stuff so he's sort of full time in this um his kids are already out of high school but I mean he'd be an amazing resource um and I completely agree with you that we should definitely not rush to um get policy because you know you can I mean this is I guess just a joke we could have it right the policy now um but we don't you know e easy shmey you can give it all the requirements and in any language you want so um I think that it's so pervasive you know that's not a joke I mean it could write the policy for how not to use it you know and um and and and and there all the tools out there to determine if what students are contributing is actually made by them or made some you know made made some other way because the tools can sort of um um track themselves in a sense as well and it's moving too quickly for any of us to get our arms around it anyway so um it's you know the promise of what what kids can do now with it is just so much more expansive than a human teacher could do it's just clearly more than a human teacher could do but there are things that humans can still do pretty well as well so I think by embracing it that's going to be the best we can do I mean we definitely want to embrace that technology we just need to get more used to how we're going to interact with it so Gabe um despite all of the busyness so this is exciting um what are your initial thoughts about sort of what this looks like and sorry I will say one other thing as I'm thinking about it so I agree that it would be Hasty to do a policy and you're involved in the high you're at the high school now you're the high school guy around Anthony is the high school guy but um I I mean I work at all the schools so yeah it is the high school it is confusing at the high school right now um in terms of how it's How how te teachers are using it to try to sort of cat kids um as the parent of a of a high schooler um I hear a lot of stories of just a lot of confusion that's a separate story I'm super interested in just and I and seeing that it's already 633 or 34 what are your initial thoughts I think it's really exciting yeah um like I said it's extremely preliminary and so like really in uh an imagining state but I think um part of what has worked well in some other areas in the past um is taking time to learn right taking time to be thoughtful it's a thing this community is good at we have a lot of access Like Jesse was alluding to or named right we have people with access and so one of the things that teachers in the high school strand um for professional development has said there's like a combination of things right one is understanding the capabilities um a lot of Educators just because of the nature of the job don't have time to sit around and play around and figure out what the capabilities are another is um time to experiment with the tools themselves and you know see what's available um there's considerations about how do we plan lessons differently right so again I use the calculator example but another example is you know just access to the internet and so I'm of the right age that access to the internet opened while I was in school and so I have an experience of no internet access and going to the library and just looking for the books that were in our library and being able to research through the internet and the additional opportunities that provided I also had teachers who said we're not using the internet for anything right it was a full band from that teacher and then teachers who embraced it to Jesse's point and so I think opportunities for folks to figure things out um Carolyn your point about Clarity is extremely important and um we have a community and a school system that has prized teacher autonomy in a lot of ways there's a blessing and a curse to that um and we're getting that from teachers as well some teachers are asking what's the district position on this and I'm like I'm not sure you actually want a district position because as soon as I say it a 100 people might love it and the other 900 teachers in the district might hate it and so um that is part of the encouragement to not be Hasty and again like the math example with the calculator there are times in class when we use it and it's correct and there are times when we don't use it because there's things we need to know as humans right um and so really the intent is to learn and explore and then make some choices once we have better understanding I think um I'll just thr this out there I loved there was a student who came to public comment and talked about AI who was awesome I don't remember my son asked me who it was and I looked and I don't remember this might be a really good opportunity to have some student voices um I think that's essential so to my knowledge the policy subcommittee hasn't been used to uh to con to call for and then constitute uh an Advisory Group or a working group I don't see why it can't be um I I think it's a good idea I like this idea to to ask for uh expert advice um on the formulation of uh an AI and education policy it doesn't bind us to creating a policy it can give us some information with which to start to build a policy um I I would be in support of trying to create a group like that within the usual restrictions yeah and I think probably at this stage the thing I would ask is like let me go back to the drawing board and come up with something a little more concrete right um so that I can think about like what makes sense from an educator standpoint what makes sense for our schools and then again we can figure out if policy is relevant and maybe policy is not relevant right I mean to the extent that policy is relevant I I personally would be supportive from this subcommittee but I think we'd have to take it before the full school committee and I think we'd have to have a clear and time-bound mandate for it maybe it ends up as an ad hoc or something but whatever Gabe I have to support this so whatever you need Gabe great or if you need nothing from us great I think the main thing um as I was thinking about it and talking to Dr gillery and other folks is um we're starting to see the calls it's very early but we're starting to see calls for like what is the district policy and I think Educators often use policy in a way that doesn't mean capital P school committee policy and um I want to make sure you all are equipped to say if you get those requests from the community at large right especially again Stephen as the chair of policy subcommittee it's an easy Avenue that we have plans we are thoughtful we are working on it and we want to avoid um some kneejerk things to so I looked on MC's website for any Ai and education policies I'm and I couldn't find any yeah right on the other AI is kind of a hard time to search hard to search I also looked on artificial intelligence so I'm not sure that those kinds of policies exist yet along the lines of what you were saying and are I mean um so Gabe are you are you just using like a personal network of folks to start to build this ad hoc group or how's that is it I would I would say honestly we are not even at that stage like this isent the idea is but um we do have access so we are um a member of what be calls their Consortium um so it's a number of uh schools that take a lot of their student teachers so I've reached out to the folks at be and they've T put me in touch with someone who's doing it kind of from the higher ed perspective for The Bu School of Ed but then also Folks At The Bu School of Ed who are um looking at it from a K12 perspective um based on the educational ethics work we've been doing um with Harvard um Professor Mira levenson is very interested in the ethical impacts of AI right and so not just the like practical elements but kind of when is there what is the ethical use um in a variety of different ways so um yeah again very very early stages um so really like you're coming in almost before the ground level okay that's good to know well Sor right and just one last thing um as principles have um had parents or family members or caregivers reach out um they've forwarded that to me so I have a couple names kind of referred that way but again um nothing has been formally announced that's why we're talking now um and I'll um kind of start to sketch up some ideas at this point okay well as you move forward if it if the there seems to me if there seems to you to be demand for something at the policy level I think I think wece yeah to build build that some advisory committee or task force or working group the other the other question I had had to do with whether or not um desie or the governor has you know convene um I can ask my my friend about um whe there's something through you know State Department of Education that already has people looking at this as well because this is not unique to Brooklyn correct I mean it's everywhere every operating system you turn on wants to stick an AI co-pilot tool which is good thing um and every app you know if it's Microsoft Word or if it's whatever else it is they want to you know do you want to add this in as a or or or or do you want to turn it off it's already G they'll be in there before we know it and then you'll have to like opt out of it so we need it's here so thank you yes this will be a um very interesting to do yeah so I will follow up initely with you yeah all right all right any new business from any of the subcommittee members and with that we conclude our meeting see you all next time thank you thank you bye