Okay, we're recording. Good afternoon. It's Tuesday, November 18th, 2025. This is a joint committee uh meeting of two subcommittees, policy and curriculum, and we are going to look at the compens compens competency
had trouble [snorts] with that one. Determination um as required by the state. I believe that we have to submit our requirements by end of December. That's right. Yes. >> Okay. Okay. And we will be taking this
to the full uh committee for a vote. But this is our first this is a draft and our first presentation. So um who is going to lead here in this >> Thanking lead off.
>> Yeah. So I'm going to start um just kind of frame it. >> Um so the competency determination. And so what we're really looking at in terms of this policy is as you remember um the 10th grade MCCAST tests in science, ELA,
and math were the former um measure for competency. So students earning a passing score on that test in 10th grade along with our local graduation requirements. So those two things together
certify a student for graduation at the end of their time at BHS. So um with the vote that happened last spring um the MCCAST was removed as the measure for competency determination and then it
became up to each um school system to determine to create a policy to determine competency. So we still have these two measures that have to be in place. competency determination which really um assures that a stu any student
graduating from a Massachusetts high school has had completed coursework including assessment of that coursework that shows that they have met the minimum they have met the standards for 10th grade you know ELA math science and
now US history with is the most recent addin that course in US history for um for high school students um and and local graduation requirements are still in place. So what we're bringing before you today is what we are determining as
our measure of competency within the Brookline public schools. And I would also frame that in terms of a lot, you know, framing the policy and the language of the policy. A lot of it comes from the MASC model policy, right? and where and we're we're
inserting the coursework that we would use and some of the measures that we would use and the procedures that we would use um in terms of um if there's an appeal or uh for or for students who are late arriving to the district or some of our other populations. So that's
what you're going to be seeing today. So I think I'm handing it I don't know if there's any questions for that or if I can hand it to Hal who's going to present the actual draft policy. Robin, I thought I would just quickly um just before we kick it over to Hal who's
done competency determination work for the public schools of Brooklyn and Brookline High for many years. Um I think just one thing I wanted to emphasize in addition to agreeing with Robin is that >> [snorts] >> um in advance of this meeting, we met with our EL director Mindy Paulo. We met
with our new guidance coordinator, school counseling corer co coordinator, Alexia Thomas, uh, and with Robin Fabiano, our director of special ed. You're going to hear policy tonight. We want to make sure we have the procedures in place to make sure that we're
enacting this well. And so policy is tonight and then we can share more about the procedures that we need to have in place to make sure we're appropriately flagging kids who might not be meeting competency determination. and then working with students, families,
administrators. So, um, Hal, if you're up for it, I think this is you. >> Hal, one of the few times in your life you've been described as muted in your response. >> Okay. All right. I I picked that up as well. Uh
so this is our draft of the competency determination and uh as Robin noted this this comes largely from the MASC and also comes essentially from the state. state ran a uh se a webinar over the summer and whereas at first it was sort
of a wild west situation where people weren't sure exactly what uh standards were going to be required or if the state was going to require anything then the state came through and several things that they strongly suggested would be parts of the policy and all of that is reflected in uh what you're
going to see tonight so uh as Robin noted it's the three it's the four areas now the English language two essentially two years of English language two years of math, specifically algebra 1 and geometry. Algebra 1 uh is a course in Brooklyn that's taught in the eighth
grade. That contingency was addressed by the by Desi that you certainly can use the eighth grade uh algebra 1 or equivalent as one of the two years of mathematics that's required. uh one year of science and uh this begins with the
current junior class uh one year of uh US history. So all of these things of course are kids that are are are classes that Brooklyn High School students are taking. They're they're a subset of the much larger graduation requirements. Uh and for most kids, uh these would be
classes that they would be taking but and have completed and would have earned their local CD by the end of the sophomore year. You'll see here that we've uh listed out the specific courses that students would be taking that would qualify. These include the respond to
literature and the humanities courses in the ninth grade, our English one courses uh for special education, world lit, future world lit, real world lit, the typical junior uh sophomore year courses along with the English two courses. Uh mathematics as we said eighth grade
equivalent or our version of algebra 1. We have a handful of students every year who come in who have not taken algebra 1. they're coming from a different school system or for any number of reasons and they would be taking our algebra 1 course and then a geometry or the other way around. Sometimes they could take geometry first and then take
the algebra one course in the sophomore year. Science any number of the science courses that we offer uh the physics courses, chemistry, bio, uh the applied science courses uh and those are also pegged to the same standard. the applied science uh 1050 is is the physics
course. The 2050 is a chemistry course. The 3050 is the biology course. And finally, as mentioned specifically for the um uh class of 27, but certainly this is a course that everybody will be
taking anyway, uh one version of our US history. That could be the uh uh American studies program. That could be US history. That could be AP US history. It could be any one of those courses that would satisfy the standards for US history.
>> Um >> we have a couple of h hands raised. Does it make sense to stop now before we get into the next sections and talk about the questions specific to the um coursework? >> Sure. Andy, what do you got? >> Yeah, thanks. Um, so, uh, our students
who are enrolled in some of the special programs, are these, uh, does this list include all the courses that they would naturally be taking sort of on their path toward satisfying our graduation requirements? >> Uh, it depends on which special programs you're talking about there. So, we'll
we'll get to that. That's still coming up. Students with disabilities, as you see, is the next section. So, >> well, I'm not I'm thinking, for example, of SWS or any of the any number of programs, not necessarily for students with disabilities. Um right >> the course work might be unorthodox and doesn't fall under necessarily these
traditional course catalog numbers. >> Uh yes so the the course catalog numbers are meant to be um uh representative but certainly any other course that is meeting the standard uh if you're taking the SWS version of US history or the ACE
version of US history certainly uh that would count. what we might do well to be explicit about that and list them out just so that there's no question that as long as you're taking a course that you know meets this the standards it doesn't have to be one of the listed ones here >> right >> um
>> good that's a good point >> thanks >> Sarah >> you obviously have such a knowledge of these students and of this you know what happens in the building so I really don't have anything for you because I
you know I just don't have the same understanding you have I just I'm really reliant on you for your evaluation of things and to tell us that. So um like you know in terms of are you happy with this? Um who was the type of student you were thinking of? Do you think that this
will be a hurdle for somebody? Will this be an encouragement? Like where what's where's your evaluation of this document fall? >> It's a really good question. Um, you know, I would say ultimately it's probably a lower bar just because of the
some kids have such stress and anxiety around testing and not having to sit for that test and instead being in a course where they have the teacher and have supports necessary uh in certain cases should it should be I I would imagine at
the end of the sophomore year I'll be sending out fewer letters than I have in the past saying you need to work now on retaking this exam. So, or you need to work on take retaking this uh coursework uh over the next uh two years in order
to satisfy the composite determination. So, you know, >> yeah, it's probably a slightly lower bar. I you know, then again, there are kids who struggle sometimes and it takes them an extra year to to get some of those credits. So, uh, but but again,
this is this is really a a a minimum standard of what you'd expect a high school student to have and uh I would expect that almost all of our students will be able to pass this uh without too much difficulty. >> Hal, I might add, and Sarah, it's a
really good question. And I think students that we would be concerned about are kids who come to us with interrupted or limited formal education. And so trying to figure out algebra 1 is a good example where the overwhelming majority of kids take that in ninth
grade and have taken algebra 1 in 8th grade within the public schools of Brooklyn. We then sometimes find kids who have that need, 9th, 10th, 11th, sometimes even 12th to go back and um take algebra 1. And and just to get a
sense of the scale, there are currently 22 students um enrolled in algebra 1 at at Brookline High School. So, we think about uh some of our EEL students and some of our students um with disabilities in terms of just wanting to
make sure that we're um identifying those students and helping them um meet the competency determination. >> Great, >> Mariah. >> Thank you. Um maybe I missed this, but I'm not sure. When does the competency
assessment take place? Is this at the end of their senior year, at the end of their sophomore year? Like when are you deciding this? >> Well, there'll be a break-in period obviously since we'll be passing it as soon as the school committee passes it for this year. We will then go through and make sure that students have done
it. We have already warned uh guidance counselors over the summer that this is coming. These are the courses that we expect to be on this list. make sure that any kid on your uh register as a senior for this year has satisfied this requirement andor put them into those
classes for senior year if necessary. So we we've done that part of the backwork, but we haven't issued a CD yet because we don't have the policy. So we'll have to do it for the seniors immediately. We'll do it for the juniors shortly thereafter. And then following that, I would assume this would be an endofear summertime after the sophomore year. And
then would become sort of a process analogous to what I was alluding to before when we would get the reports of MCCAST. I would insert a letter saying, "Congratulations, you've satisfied competency termination. It's one step on your journey to a high school diploma and we congratulate you." And it's a little moment, hooray. Or, "Wonderful,
you passed two out of three, but we need you to get extra help in science. Mr. wiser or now Miss Brown's going to contact you about that bio that you're taking this year and setting you up for the bio impass. That's the the letter we used to send. Now we'll send a similar letter saying congratulations, you satisfied or or uh you're doing great,
you need that one more course, you got to make up that math credit from freshman year or the physics credit, whatever it is. Uh so I I imagine it'll become a pro I it will become a process like that uh following the completion of the sophomore year. >> Okay. >> So go ahead,
>> Mariah. Can I just interject for a second? Our obligation has always been, as Hal's alluding to, that if a student doesn't pass the, you know, the the in the case of MCCASA, it was a test given at a particular moment in time, um that
we then had to create a plan for that student and work with that student to help them move toward competency um by, you know, taking again at a different date um and the support in between. I think what maybe what you're asking about is where's where's the um the
assessment and the assessment is actually embedded in >> that's not what I'm asking that's not what I'm asking I think how answered my question which was essentially in the study state this process will occur at the end of sophomore year and then essentially just like with MCCAST >> which you're talking about like
basically people have junior year and hopefully not senior year to sort of get through the process if they didn't pass it successfully at the end of because that's not written here I don't think But it's helpful to understand that that is your plan is that this all sort of happens in the same sort of time frame
that it would for students. Um, and so I I just find that helpful to understand because I think as as a lay reader of the policy, if you come along and you read this, you say, "Wait, recline only expects their graduating students to have two years of blah blah blah." But
the point is that this is a point in time registry at the end of sophomore year, which also I don't think is alluded to at all. And so it makes it look like we have very low standards when really these are point in time standards for students completing their second year and possibly needing some catchup after. >> No, that's super helpful feedback for
the draft and we certainly could add that in for to clarify it for >> I think it is I think it is helpful. >> I think I think it might be helpful to just I mean within the policy understand that and it maybe this is at the beginning again we're using the draft language from MASC. The competency
determination is not the graduation requirement. It is a piece of the larger Brook of like it's a graduation requirement for all Massachusetts students and it is the complement part of the complement of the full graduation requirements of the Brooklyn public school they're two things together right
um and then the last thing I wanted to say is because this is policy as opposed to your actual what you're going to what you're going to actually do I would be zooming out and not including things like specific courses specific course numbers it's just going to get outdated
And um and so I don't think you necessarily need that. And I think to Andy's point earlier, it implies, at least the way it's written now, that those are the exclusive things to pass. And I think in the policy, you probably want to be a little bit less explicit and give yourself latitude to be able to
thus >> flex around whatever your current course numbers or whatever you think is right. >> The MSC draft policy um basically requests that districts uh list specifically the courses that will satisfy the requirements. But we don't have to do that. >> We don't have to follow that. But I
disagree with you in this case. I think we need clarity. Like everyone needs to be able to pick this up and see exactly what the requirements are. So, >> but what happens if MA 1020 turns into 1020 something else in a year? We're going to have to revise that over and over. >> Why can't it say algebra 1 and geometry?
>> Otherwise, there's just too much clarity over exactly which courses um count that. No, no one's going to go and look up like the actual, you know, state standards and then ask them look at the syllabus and ask themselves whether the course fulfills it. Like we need to list it out for for the community. >> Hello.
>> Yeah, Bella wants to say something. Bella, >> thank you. So, I I understand Mariah's point. Um, typically there there doesn't exist a subcommittee like this the subcommittee or this anyway the curriculum subcommittee as it does in
Brookline. So this requirement to the school districts is that we have to come up with a we have to submit something that's been approved by the end of December. But when they gave us that requirement, they then later announced Desi being
they that they were examining new requirements. So that makes us hesitant to um that makes us hesitant to really like oh be creative with this. It makes us feel
like okay why don't we do something as we're required to do. Um and I and I think for families they kind of need to know exactly what they have to take to meet the minimum competency. But this
isn't like a regular policy review as we understand it going through the Brooklyn subcommittees. This is this is the state requirement they're making us submit. And it makes sense because these subcommittees do exist here in Brooklyn to put it forth through
you. But I understand your point, but this isn't like a this is this is what requirement at the state is making us do and it's not like a it's not like a typical policy that we're drafting. So So I understand your point, but that
but this is >> so this is just so I'm clear. This is there's this is not the policy. This is literally the document that everyone's going to use. In that case, I retract what I said. >> Yes. >> Thank you for clarifying that. Yes. And it's just it's just unusual because makes sense to go through these
subcommittees, but it's not a policy. It's to it's what we need to submit for the um state >> Suzanne. >> Yeah, there's two things. One is I think that there under American history or not, yeah, under history, I think
there's a typo. It's >> well, it says earn full credit for the mathematics course as listed above. So, I think you might >> I thought Oh, yeah, there it is. I see it. Yep. I thought [clears throat] I I had that I saw that earlier today in the science course. It had the same thing. So, yeah. Okay. Thank you. We'll fix that.
>> Yep. And then the other thing just I maybe it muddies the water again, but you know, if if a student comes from another school and they've had algebra 1, if they have a passing grade on that that you would just assume that they've met that requirement,
>> right? They don't have another test or anything. Correct. >> Okay. >> Would if they're coming from another Massachusetts school for sure. >> Yeah. >> You know, I there'll be a transcript review. So that you know, someone could come in from We get a lot of kids in
from foreign schools and the course names are in translation and it's hard to get descriptions. So we I can imagine there'd be cases where we'd be questioning and we'd be doing math, you know, tests like we would with anybody to to to determine what course a kid
should be taking. >> Okay? >> And that'll really be the determinant as to whether or not the the child has met the requirement when they come in. >> So for the so the the the assessments they take is just the end of the year end of the course test. So they could
take it first year, sophomore year, junior year, depending on when they take the course. Is that correct? >> You lost me with the assessment part of that. The the the the requirement is that they pass the entire course. It's not just a single assessment within the course.
>> Okay. So, but if >> end of year assessment, >> if they have a passing grade, >> yes, >> and a subject, then that would assume and there they did that here at Brookline. We would assume that they have passed whatever it is they needed
to pass. So they get credit for that, right? >> Absolutely. Yes. >> And they may do it after they would do it after as part of that course. So whenever they take that course, that's when they would do it. Take the they that's when they complete the requirements. >> Correct. >> Okay. Okay.
>> Yes. Exactly. And there there's big talk, though I don't think it's gone very far, about courses having the similar same courses with different teachers having similar assessments or the same assessments. We we aren't doing that at
this point, are we? >> Not across the board. I mean, that's the Thank you, Suzanne, for mentioning that. We're certainly engaged in common assessment work and I think in some subject areas you have similar or same common assessments in particular in in
science and in math. Um but that's we're still very much in process on that >> and that's not required by this by this. >> No. Okay. Okay. Thank you Carolyn.
>> Thanks. Um, and I'm going to expose my I don't know free range parenting. You would think I would know the answer to this about algebra 1 by now. Do is algebra 1 ahs course or I'm a little confused about
the reference to eighth grade. >> Algebra 1 is typically a course and the skills the the state uh frameworks for algebra 1 are covered by the eighth grade math curriculum. So students in Brooklyn uh would be taking that course and the required skills in eighth grade.
>> Okay. So the So I was going to say to answer your question, Caroline, they're actually high school standards. So the algebra 1 course has to be aligned to the high school standards for algebra 1. And in Massachusetts, many schools offer both grade 8 math to the eighth grade
eighth grade standards and algebra 1 as options for students. It just happens in Brooklyn that most students will take it as an eighth grader and we have allowance under the way that Desessie's framed this to accept that as long as it's aligned to the the high school standards. So where like Hal alluded to
earlier, if you have a student who's not coming from a Massachusetts school, you'd want to make sure that that algebra 1 is experiences, even if it's labeled algebra 1 is actually aligned to what the expectations would be for Massachusetts high schools. Do we call it algebra 1 in
eighth grade in Brooklyn or just math? >> I think we might just call it math. >> I think we call it math. But to your earlier question, Carolyn, we do have an algebra 1 course, but it's for a very small percentage of students. Um,
>> typically running two two sections a year, 25 students between the two of them typically tops, maybe 30, but occasional years, but two small sections usually of that course. Okay, thanks for clarifying that. >> Sure, Jesse.
>> Yeah, thanks um Hal. Um to to um Andy's question about different programs that BHS might have and how do you cover um the terminology about course offerings and to Bella's point that this is something that Desessie's asking for, it's sort of need to stay close to the
boiler plate. I was just going to point out that in your table at the bottom of page one under courseer coursework requirements in each of the middle uh cells you do say the equivalent of. And so if this was being used in Lexington or this is being used in, you know,
Plymouth, same thing. It's the equivalent of. And so the fact that you put the specifics down at the bottom are interesting for BHS. But in terms of any district that would use like everything but that, this equivalent word that you have in each of the looose would cover, you know, equivalent programs, similar
programs, similar courses that are used by students across the um the school. So I think that would that would cover it cleanly as well. >> For sure. And and Desi over the summer in their call stressed that they were really leaving the schools and leaving
the curriculum coordinators or equivalent positions with the authority to make that determination of what courses fulfilled that um that standard. >> Absolutely. Thank you. >> So I don't see any other questions. Let me just go through the rest. There are
some other contingencies we cover. We have a section here about students with disabilities and some of the and out of out of district placements. And again, in that case, there's going to be a a an IEP team and a transition team that would be making the determination uh about the the det about competency. Uh E
is a special case of course uh and this is as Anthony mentioned we had Mindy on the call with us the other day and we would be expecting students to reach the level of EL3 uh for the the two years of English taken and reaching the level of EL3 uh
for the the uh English portion of their learning. There's also some other courses that we have. There's an EL course in US history. There's EL courses in science that would also qualify for students. There's a special contingency here for students who arrive late and this rev essentially involves transcript
reviews guidance counselor registar guidance coordinator and then ultimately I would make the determination that this is that the the review of the transcript uh satisfies what we're looking for and or would create would help to create the plan or the guidance counselor would create the plan and I would approve the
plan for what courses we would want the student to take 11th grade 12th grade or just in 12th grade whatever it is uh to satisfy the requirement We have notes here about an appeals process which is fairly straightforward. And then there is also an interesting
note at the end. Uh this was part of the state policy when the desi changes that this now uh essentially undoes any student that would have been previously denied graduation solely because of MCCAST. So any student from 2003 to 20
to 2024 who passed all their courses but had not passed MCCAST or uh well or is in is in that situation now is eligible to have a review processes outlined here uh that could determine whether that student is entitled now retroactively to
a Brooklyn high school diploma. Andy? >> Yeah, thanks. Uh can you talk a little bit about why um EL level three is the level that that you're setting? So this is the WEDA level three so-called developing. >> Yeah. And getting into that. Uh so I'm sorry. No, that that might be a little
confusing. This is the EL3 course. >> Oh three, which is not a terribly high level of proficiency. So >> no, no, thank you [clears throat] for Yeah, it's a good question and I'll clarify that in the language here. No, that's the specific course that we're talking about. we would want to see a student and and this would be the level
that a student would have had to have attained most likely in order to pass the MCCAST exams previously. I see. >> So, uh you know the student who's who uh a student who's struggling in EL1 is unlikely to have met the other parts of the graduation requirement in terms of
credits. But, uh for most of our EL students, it is a nice progression where they come in, maybe they're starting in EL1, but they're moving up to that EL 3000 class really uh by junior year some or senior year. And that's the standard of what we would want to see, you know, two years leading to that course. It's a
slightly different way of wording it for them. But that that would be the what we would see as a necessary course for the EL student. >> Great. Thanks. It was my misunderstanding that this was the WEDO level. >> Yeah. >> Right. Mariah, >> thanks. Um,
Andy's question just makes me think, why doesn't this have the same level of specificity that the other things require in terms of course numbers? But you don't have to answer that. It just made me think of it. Um >> I I can I can answer it. We were just trying to match what we got from the
from the mass superintendent. >> Okay. Then my two questions are where is this going to go if it's not policy? Is it going to go in the BHS handbook? Where does this live is an official document? I think it it has a it has a um a policy
number from MASC like that's a consistent so it does live in the policy. >> So it's a policy that doesn't live in is that is not a policy. Okay. Um >> can we come back to this later after we've discussed the substance? Mariah I had some thoughts on this. >> Then my my next question is can you just
clarify for me? Maybe you said it and I missed it. Why is US history, which I thought was a junior year class, but I guess maybe it's not, getting added into this with sophomore. >> Uh, you're right. It is a junior year course. You're absolutely right. So, this starting for the class of 27, which
would be the current sophomores. Uh, this would actually push everything back to the junior year. >> So, how are you going to do the competency determination at the end of sophomore year if you haven't finished? >> We uh we as we do now. So, again, we can't make the full determination.
You're absolutely right. I I that was just an error on my part. So yes, the we will do the full determination at the end of the junior year. Then uh we will continue to issue letters as we have in the past about their stat the status that they have toward competency uh
after the sophomore year. >> Got it. And then I this was the typo that Suzanne flagged, right? The mathematics or the history paragraph. That was okay. Thanks. >> Yep, Anthony. Sorry, one thing I should have caught before just the nomenclature on late
enrolling students rather than guidance counselor and guidance coordinator. I'd love it if we could use school counselor and coordinator of school counseling. Just updating the language we use for those titles. >> Jesse,
>> thank you. Um, first of all, just a typo for you. You're right. You're right there. Last sentence of students with disabilities. Y must be has like an underline between must be just for you. >> Yeah, I see it. Yep. >> All right. So, or maybe it's part of the draft something. I don't know. I don't know. It's some weird thing. Um so,
maybe it's with the draft overlay. I don't know. Um but anyway, just to have it in mind. Second thing to this con this idea about policy that Mariah was mentioning. She sound she sounded and I am too skeptical about this not being a policy. It probably should be. If I looked at MASC for a bunch of districts
and I was scrolling through there's IKFE competency determination policy um in different um districts and it's it it's in in reading through it while you were talking about these they're pretty similar. They don't have not all the districts have all the course the course
numbers but they have the course um categories. Okay. So, so um I'm I'm um concerned as um with and I agree with Mariah um and I'm not sure I agree with Robin that this is a policy in the MASS
manual for like I don't know 15 districts. as I was scrolling through and if it is a policy then it is if it's a policy then it lives in the policy manual and if there's if there's additional information that the high school or the district and OTL provide to parents or an online document in the
handbook about details about it protocols and practices that's fine but it reads to me um very much like a policy and and and it is probably based on what I thought we were going to be doing will be living in the policy manual
So I mean >> I would agree with you Jesse that it is it is a policy. I mean it had it was put out by MASC. It has an MASC number. So I would assume that it would live there. I think it's a little bit different in the way that we've been asked to create it. I think but it I would agree with you
that it is an a school committee policy. >> Okay. Yeah. So the qu so so I think to Mariah's question Robin the um the the inclusion of the actual course numbers as compared to I'm looking at Danverse for example right now they have ELA 9
ELA 10 algebra 1 geometry biology US history 1 but they don't have all the course numbers and so I think that's where the you know I mean if if the rest of the team is is is okay with that I think if we simplified it by taking the numbers out because it's a whole process every time we have to go through policy
subcommittee if anything changes is, you know, anything. So, I would >> You would deny us this opportunity to come and sit with you in the afternoon, Jesse. >> Um, we got plenty to do, man. You could come help us, but I'm just saying is that uh this particular one um could uh
could probably be smoother from a policy manual perspective without all the um without all the uh the details of the policy of the course numbers. And to Anony's point earlier, somewhere between guidance counselors and the student handbook, I'm imagine I'm imagining
house since you have plenty of time a a a process flow that provides the um parents and students with the flow to get to competency. Right? So these are the courses and these things. So I would I would recommend removing the course numbers and just leaving the titles, you
know, the categories that'll make it more in line with what MASC is showing district by district as well. Um, and I would I would agree with you that we can re I think we can remove the course numbers. What we do need to make sure is if any of our courses have unique names that meet the requirements.
So like if you think about English one like if any of our English our first year English courses have a specific name, we should include the name even if it's offered at multiple levels. Um, so I think that meet the um would meet the requirements. So
>> that makes sense. >> I think that that's the only place where I would kind of split it a little bit. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, sure. Sure. >> Robin, do you mind repeating that again? What was it you said? >> So, so for instance, you know, like what
Jesse referred to, something like English one or English, say it was labeled English nine, it might be in different high schools or things like that might be offered at multiple levels, right? like so the same course but maybe it's at an honors level and it's at a college prep level or whatever it is. So having the names there is
important. What we also do need to make sure is that if we have a specific name for a course and it doesn't necessarily like we need to make sure that the name is at least there even if the number like if it's you have to have all the numbers but like if we call our English
n course like you know whatever it happens to be you know like the responding to literature for instance should be there as a course name that that meets this requirement but you don't necessarily need all of the course numbers after Yeah, going back to Andy's earlier point
though, that's going to make an awfully complicated entry when I try to account for SWS English, which kids start taking in the sophomore year >> because they're inventing courses. They're changing names all the time and kids could be taking any number of courses. So, we'll figure out a way to do it, but it's going to make it, you
know, some some encompassing category. >> Yeah. the the one um so how the the one other paragraph that a bunch of these um districts I'm looking at mash be one of my favorites I have a connection there so um um um credit recovery options
meaning students who don't meet the required passing grade at that in those courses can uh do we give them an option to take a path through summer school or credit recovery course or additional coursework by their counselor that meets the same standards is there any comment that we want to add in our policy about that so if you didn't meet the compet
competency requirement you get another you get other opportunities to meet it for graduation. Uh >> yeah, I was going to say that might be I mean we might but we as we can also cover that under some of the other ways um in the paragraph below but I do want
to just point out in the guidance that we are given by Desessie again the policy requirements say the coursework requirements in each subject of the required subject areas including the specific courses and district the district considers applicable for the purposes of CD. So we do need to label
the name the specific courses that we think are applicable. It's interesting only because the polic you know may maybe what some of these um the online policy sections ITF in a bunches of these districts maybe they have two versions Robin you know a
simpler version for the policy and a detailed version that they gave back to desi per what >> they may only offer English nine as their English nth grade English course but it could be offered for multiple levels but it's English nine right >> y
>> so >> okay I'm Just my my question was about the other, you know, credit recovery. >> Yeah. >> Great. >> If we're going to be explicit about that. >> Well, and also, you know, we'll do this
and the best that we can. If we have to come back and revise it, we will do that. But >> so because it's something new. So, >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Jesse, there are some avenues for credit recovery for students in summer school. Depends on number of absences, depends
on grade. So there are some avenues to do that. Uh or kids can take classes over again the following year. >> No, I agree. I'm just saying it's not explicit in the policy that you showed us. >> Yes. >> Maybe that's all. Maybe maybe >> and maybe it's part of the um the
student must earn full credit for the like I'm just looking at English language arts courses listed above or by completing a subject matter portfolio aligned with the state frameworks and approved by the English department curriculum coordinator. And that's true of each of the areas. Maybe like that.
Maybe it's the review of, you know, outside coursework meant to or summer school coursework or whatever it is. But like maybe it's that it's really encompassed by that you complete these courses successfully or there's this other space and that's really for that
alternative. >> Okay. Mariah, >> um, which classes aren't included? What have you decided does not meet your competency determination in these grades? Have you listed everything for sophomore and freshman year? Like are there classes that you're like, "Nope, this
one would not meet our competency. We offer this, but it doesn't meet determination of competency." Uh I don't think there really is any course that wouldn't meet the you know all of the courses in all of
the programs be they ACE or SWS or special ed would be aligned with the frameworks and would and therefore would qualify. >> Okay. I wonder if there's space to make that kind of statement in addition
to complying, but essentially like yes, if you take a class here, it's good enough to meet the state requirements. I I wonder what do you think about language that says that um the the classes that are designated in the stu
in the in the in the in the curriculum I mean sorry your course of study cuz your titles might change from time to time and you might add another course or just change a course title.
Um, >> this is the point of being not being too prescriptive in the wording and it is a good point. It's it's gives you the flexibility. >> I mean, what happens if someone takes a pilot class and making this up? But next year there's an innovation fund class in
>> blah blah blah. Are we if it's not here, are we going to say, well, they didn't actually meet the criteria, the competency? I doubt that's what you intend, but that would be >> I think it it could be restated in the course of study. you know, these classes count toward the competency determination because each year the
school committee has to approve that course of study anyway. Should we do that? I I I can see like you might. So, we honestly that Desi is looking at competency determination again. I think that led us to think, oh,
they're going to change the requirements in another year, but maybe they won't. Maybe we'll have this for a while. So maybe we should refer to the course of study. >> So Bella, are you suggesting for example putting maybe an icon on each of the
courses within the course of study that that qualifies within the within the course catalog for each course >> something you know in little in the in a footnote somewhere and again school committee has to approve that course of study every year anyway. And I'm just saying that so that the
members on the on this meet will understand that they will they'll get to approve the ones that that count. >> Okay. >> It's a lot it's a lot easier to amend your course of study
>> than to um amend a school committee policy. [clears throat] >> Right. That was my point earlier. If we simplify it Yeah. Andy. >> Um, yeah. So, before we leave this, can we get clear on where this is supposed
to sit in the policy manual or how to integrate it? Because currently what we have is um section I1F, high school graduation requirements, right? Which are more all-encompassing than this. And then currently we have a section I1G,
uh, which is basically a protest against the use of MCCAST as a graduation requirement. So we we can happily get rid of that section. Um and it might it might be natural to replace it with what's in front of us or some version of it. Um and add I would add like one
sentence to the beginning of the high school graduation requirements policy just saying in order to graduate from BHS students must satisfy the following graduation requirements. And that's what we have currently and then we can just say in addition to the competency determination requirements in section
I1G. Right? So just a pointer to the next section. Um, and then we could incorporate this into the policy manual as the next section. Um, and then maybe with Bella's suggestion that instead of listing the courses directly here, we just provide a pointer to courses of
study. >> Andy, I believe I believe this one is IKF. >> Yes, that's right. That's what I mentioned earlier. It comes after IKF, graduation requirements. Andy, I don't see an I1 and uh online for the other >> I'm looking at our I'm looking at our policy manual,
>> not a not an MASC one. >> Right. So, I'm saying in in section I which is instruction, right? >> Yeah. >> There is um there they're you know 35 or 40 in the Newton one and the Newton IKF is competency determination standing on its own. Sort of comes right after IKF
which is graduation requirements. >> Yeah. I mean, where wherever it I mean, so if we were to do the same, it would be section I1G, I guess, in our in our handbook, just to have it immediately after graduation requirements. >> Yeah, it makes sense. >> Okay. So, does that seem reasonable to
all that that's where it would sit and that we would streamline it by removing the direct references to um to individual courses here? >> Okay. My only question and Bella maybe this is a question that you and I can find out because the guidance does ask
us to specifically name courses um whether that's you know like whether we need to do anything regard like whether a statement about the courses designated in our course of study will will be sufficient. I would think that maybe um we submit it
and then we we attach the course of study. >> Okay. So, um Andy, so we're going to present this to the school committee in early December, [clears throat] I guess. >> Um yeah, I suppose. So, so I guess we'll
have to discuss with the chair, but um I'm hoping it can be docketed. I don't think it needs to go through subcommittee again. >> No, I don't think so. No. Okay. Um so, I am going to you're you're going to continue, right, with um policy, Andy? >> Yes.
>> And the curriculum folks and um Hal and Anthony, thank you. Uh Robin, I guess we get to um go and enjoy our evening. So, thank you everyone for your input. I appreciate that. And um curriculum is
officially over, but policy is going to continue. Thank you all very much. >> Thanks everybody. Thanks Susan. >> Thank you everyone. >> Hi everyone. We're on the same link, right? We're not going >> link. Yes, same link. >> Y >> I just wasn't sure because there was a link in the other calendar invite. I was
confused. >> Yeah. Which actually didn't work. It led to the agenda and not to a Zoom meeting. >> Betsy. >> Yes. and Andy. Um, I'd be interested in leaving this on just to listen. Do you want to
unpromote? Do you want to like perma mute me or something, Betsy? Or I'll just I won't say anything. >> I mean, maybe I'll just >> But I may as well keep it on and listen because I'm going to start dinner. >> Okay. Maybe I will make remove your co-host permissions if you don't mind. Okay.
>> I don't mind. Thank you. All right. Okay. Uh so welcome now to the uh rest of the uh November 18th, 2025 meeting of the policy subcommittee. Give me a second here to um get my papers in order and get the competency determination
stuff out of the way. Okay. So, uh, our first item is approval of minutes from the October 21st, uh, subcommittee meeting. Uh, I'll move those. Do I have a second? >> I second it. >> Hey, thanks, Jesse. Uh, Mariah, had you vote? >> I'm gonna abstain since I forgot to read
them. >> That's cuz what? >> I forgot to read them. >> Oh, okay. Um, Jesse, >> I I I read them. They're fine. Good job. Thanks. >> Yes. They're they're actually outstanding. So, >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I vote yes as well. Thanks, Betsy.
>> Thank you, Betsy. >> Um, okay. So, uh, uh, our first item is the draft building usage and access policy review, discussion, and possible vote. Um, so Jesse, do you mind, uh, describing to us sort of the additional work that you've done since the last
meeting and how the draft that you just sent around relates to the draft that we discussed a month ago? >> Yes. So um in light of the discussion we had in the at the last meeting and the questions that came up regarding why I made um sort of structural not even
structural changes but actually re recasting the policy I um while I was waiting um for feedback I think that we were going to get from Joe Albuquerque which uh still hasn't happened um but I did I did see him a few days back and
we're going to meet so we in any case in in in in the absence of that, I thought it might be more prudent um after what I saw Mariah had done with the flag policy to simply go back to the building usage and access policy and apply the lessons I had learned from our discussion in our last policy meeting to the existing
building usage and access policy. >> So, would you like me to share anything, Jesse? >> Yes, please. Yeah, I was looking for it, but I'm still like in the middle of competency over I guess I'm incompetent at moving so quickly from one to the other, but >> sorry about that. Yeah. Okay. So, so this is Thank you, Betsy. >> Yeah, sure.
>> Um, thank you. So, um, so this is from section K. And what I did is made the um, uh, changes um, about a week ago. Um, only relevant to titling and a few
based on um, u conversations I had with people in advance um, that were part of the other one, but very very few. And again following the theme that I that I heard from both Mariah and Andy in the last meeting was not to come up with brand new ideas and not to overload this
with procedure because that's really up to um the office of of administration of finance to do. So anywhere it said um you know deputy superintendent I fixed it to office of administration of finance so it became DSAF. Um there were places where it said principal sometimes
it said building leaders. So um uh it's all building leaders. Um then um the it continues. Okay. And then down here um this red section has to do with um u
some again without a discussion yet with Joe. some um couple of highlights of what the guidelines would be from OAF about about after school or enrichment programs using the building. First being that um
they need access to school buildings and spaces. So the directors should really have access to the keys that'll open the doors used for the program. And talking to some of the programs, they're often calling a janitor um who might have a maintenance person who might be there in order to get a key. um they might not
have it for one of their rooms. Um and you know generally what you want to do to maximize time that they're using um um and the program while they're while the students are there is not have a room locked you know unable to get in. So um whether it means key cards for
staff uh that are involved in the after school programs or whether it just means having keys to the rooms that they're renting or for another kind of program that that needs to get in that need you know we want to maximize their ability to get into the space that they're renting. Uh the second one is um if
which I think holds true for most um B is that employees of afterchool programs again this could become part of the pol pro protocol or steps that um that um Susan and Joe could come up with but it just I didn't want these ideas to disappear tell them sort of what we're
thinking about that um if employees have passed the employee guidelines like Cy checks and these other things they they could be provided with swiping cards so they can get into the buildings. they shouldn't be knocking on doors if something locked and then you know unable to get in or pulling people away uh other staff in the after school
program in order to get in. And then um uh the third one which I heard from you know different programs Mariah may have heard it as well um is that often at some of the buildings u there visitors coming to the building could be a parent could be a kid who's not in after school but forgot their backpack whatever
they're knocking on the door to get in and this is something the after school programs for example should not be having to manage um so while the programs are running their staff need to stay with their students and so um OAF should uh develop if There isn't one
already, a guideline for how they'll make sure that the key entrances are monitored in some way so that the um the programs that are paying for um for the space and are running their program don't have to be diverted to um to
visitors at the door. Um then uh section 71. Yeah. So going down to se to section seven there um Betsy at the bottom. This is not meant, Andy, to be a um to be included. I just referenced it because
um chapter 71, section 71, where where it talks about what the school committee is supposed to do to review these schedules and guidelines. Um um at least I mean it's possible it happened last year. I don't really recall. Maybe uh I just don't remember which is possible.
Um but but but I thought it would be useful. I mean I read this section 71 like three times here now and I put it in here just so that we are um we are familiar with what's with what's in there um and um without interference
you know it says you know act fourth fifth line and consistently without interference with the use of the premises for school purposes allow the use of by individuals and associations for educational recreational civic philanthropic other purposes as the school committee deems for the interest
of the community and um uh it's just helpful to have that for in case someone you know hasn't read what that means um because it's only you know a footnote maybe it should be a footnote in the policy is what what what our team thinks so um and we don't probably we probably
don't need a little piece at the end that says this section shall not apply to Boston but that is in the state law and then um on the requirements um I took out all the stuff about how fees might be said it's all related to what Joe and the team would come up with um
uh violations um you know resulting consequences and then the rest is really um the very tiny changes um it said select men so you know change it to select board and things along those lines and um that's
pretty much it I mean there are a couple of minor changes as you'll see in the tracking that I made um that are you know these are under special circumstances But it really it really updates the policy to sort of our current terminology
provides a little bit. Okay. Now number two coming up now is um yeah use of the school building by district partners, town partners and independent partners. This is the second section of the policy and uh after school and out of school programs. So again the school committee
encourages the coordination to provide the opportunity. It should be the school committee's agreements with these agencies, departments, organizations. And then it defines what they are. This is again straight out of our policy manual. Yep. Continuing down.
And then um this this relates to what we said earlier about the that they need to provide certification of background checks on their staff. Um I I suppose that's something again that has to be done between the the after school or out of after Yeah. the out the
after school out of school program and and OAF when they're making their um application. Uh and then certificate. Yeah. This is all >> Was Joe okay with that? >> I haven't heard back from him. We're going to meet >> Oh, you haven't heard back? Oh, I
thought I missed that you I heard you'd reached out to him. I didn't catch that he >> he actually walked in to a meeting on Friday. I was having a marathon another marathon meeting with food services and >> I didn't realize he actually sits out at the Baldwin. Mariah >> he said he said he said I heard this
voice that I looked you matched that picture on the website. Are you Jesse? So I said because we hadn't met. So he I said yeah. He says oh my gosh we got to meet and I have answers and I'll get back to you. So, um I I I need to give him a call. Um but I don't think >> I don't think he's gotten this copy of
this policy. So, you know, that's to to answer your question. >> Bella's hands up. So, um, I had the original policy and I haven't been able to run it by the building principles and I didn't know and I did send it to Susan to let Joe know, so she must have passed
it on to him, but I haven't talked to Joe personally about um, the policy. And I looked and I didn't realize another version had been posted. So, I will check with Betsy why I didn't I couldn't
find this later version. Um, but I haven't read it by the principles yet. I do have some concerns about security of um school property and shared spaces. So, I'll have to look more closely at
it, but I'll I'll look at this updated version, Jesse. >> Okay. >> I guess I had other question. Is this updating a current policy or is it a new policy that's being drafted? This is updating the current policy to okay
>> to essentially um um ensure that all terminology is up to date >> and to provide the basis under which um Joe Albuquerque and team >> will will share with us um you know I
don't want to say more transparently just will share with us the processes and procedures that are being used for entities that want to utilize our buildings after Sure. And um All right. So, it's so I can It was my my fault because I had questions
about it and so I haven't run up by the principles yet. Um >> and then we will. Okay. And then before you do, Bella, can I make comments because a lot of this actually is not consistent with other things we have. >> Okay. >> So, I think it might need a little more
work. It's not your fault, Jesse. It's just that you didn't know like you did a whole bunch of cleanup, but there's some other areas too that need some more cleanup. And um and I'll just give a couple of examples. The wording, if we scroll up a smidge,
um like the definitions term here, I don't think that this matches um what we used uh Betsy in the other documents that we've prepared for building fees. And also this doesn't reflect um some of the discussions we've
been having with the town and specifically wreck about theou um regarding to regarding Rex's use of space um and some of the separate documents there. My general concern with this document is and if you could scroll down a little bit Betsy and again this
is existing language from before Jesse. Yes. Personally, I would feel more comfortable with um I'll just give one example like there's a lot of here I'm I'm using my I'm channeling Andy or at least what the lesson that I took away from what Andy said about policy which is that as we were doing some policy
last year which is like we need to be less prescriptive in the specifics and we need to direct the superintendent and the team to develop the specifics. So like unless we truly want to have financial statements and demographic data by October 31st every year, then we
don't need to write that in there. We say that they need to create their own processes to decide that. Um so so I think that there's some other things in here which are a little bit too specific in my opinion and or don't comport with
um current practice. >> Yeah. So, I think there's a little bit more to do before it goes to the principal because my worry is that the principles, if they read some of this, >> might think that this is the goal of the school committee as opposed to a true document for discussion. And I don't
think that we necessarily want to do some of these things. Um, we might want to back away from them. So, it might be worth um >> again like having one more draft at least before the principles were asked to weigh in on this. >> I'm happy you know there's a problem the
Okay, two two comments. one is um you note in section B Roman numeral 2 Mariah that I actually put in after part you know demographic data I don't think legally you can require the programs to do so so they won't um if it's you know
if it's not if it's something that's not even legal to ask for so that's like it's like hiding in the background of the policy that no one's reading so that's why it's sort of living over >> so and the second thing was I'd be more than happy um thrilled you know if you and I could go through this together in
a separate meeting. But if it's discussion and then it's sort of OMO breaking cuz there's only three of us. So if you want to take it on your own, look at it, send it back or have it reviewed on the next meeting. If there's someone we can do it without breaking open meeting law, sure I mean there might be some information you have about
other, you know, parallel efforts that will update this policy to make it even more modern that I tried to do, but that's because you have more information. So, um, >> you know, I'm happy to I'm happy to sit with you and do it or remote and do it, >> right? >> If we if we can do that without OML
issues or have you do it alone and then bring it back because, >> you know, it'll just wrote it'll just cycle around then because I'm going to do based on what I know and then there's information that you have. That's >> Yeah, Andy, does it make sense for me to take the next crack at it? >> Um, yeah. The question would be um um would it be best for Mariah to take a
crack at it and then and then for um Bella to check with Joe and building leaders or other way? >> I think so. I think I think it probably is better to make sure because like the way it is now doesn't even comport with current practice. I would rather flag where what current practice is and you
know at minimum um >> okay >> and that way I just don't want people to worry or start to spin about stuff which we're not we don't want them to worry or think too much about >> that's true that's true that's why we haven't yet so it's sort of good that it hadn't been sent out to to building leaders yet
>> so for efficiency Jesse if it's okay with you I would suggest that Mariah have a crack at it and then it doesn't need to come back to subcommittee before um Bella checks in with uh with staff. Would that be all right? >> Yeah. I And And where do you want Joe to be um integrated with it then?
>> I would Joe. >> Yeah, I would include Joe. >> Sure. Okay. Okay. >> Okay. So, if you're willing to take that Yeah, I don't mind. Will you send me the doc version as opposed to I think we only got the PDF version, right, Jesse? Or did we get the doc version?
>> I think I sent um No, no. This this is a >> I PDF I PDFed it to upload but I do have the word version. >> I sent her the original Word document. >> Yep. So I'll share that with you Mariah afterwards. >> You can do tracking and all. You can just >> I think um
>> yeah I was just looking but now I don't see it since you have >> I can share I might have shared it with you in just you know docs but if not if I if I might have done it in word or anything >> you just wrote I sent Betsy the new draft. I didn't get it. We didn't get it directly. So yeah, if you don't mind
sharing it, Betsy, I'd appreciate it. >> Okay. Overall, I I mean, I like the direction this is taking where we're I think we're, if I understand right, uh we're focusing now on just um getting greater clarity on sort of what our obligations are to people who use our spaces and what their obligations are to
us in terms of, you know, whatever they do and also what information they provide. So >> right now I think um the issue I think we have in my opinion is that at least as far as I know it's pretty hard if you're a user to understand what your
rights and what your rights and what your responsibilities are if you're a if you're a user of the building. Um, I'm not sure where Joe is at in terms of updating the contracts, but like if you go to Newton's website, just because I happen to be looking at similar questions this week unrelated to this
policy, it was pretty handy like all of the ability to reserve or to to request a reservation of space is all on the website and it's like a little bit more forward- facing. And again, this is not like a a blame statement at all because Joe is relatively new in the position and has been getting his arms around
many things, but I think that to the extent our policy can say things like that should be set up and then leave it to staff to work out the details or you know, I liked the statement you put in here of like building like people who rent the building need to have and whether it's whatever the appropriate
whether it's a swipe card or a key or whatever it is, but like PSB needs to provide that. To me, that's the kind of thing where we just need to give the direction and then walk away on the details because we're not we're not in the place to manage the details. >> The other one that the other one that that that's could be problematic, which
is again on OAF's side, not on us, is the fee structure. For example, is it by room by hour? Is it by facilities? >> It is on us. We have we that's a that's a school committee vote that was already done a couple years ago, refreshed a couple of years ago, but school
committee sets fees and um staff had a structure and some of them were modified and some of them haven't been. And Joe when he came in asked to have a year to really understand how things were working before he made recommendations. We're at the beginning of the second year. So this is a very timely conversation,
>> but it also gives us the chance to >> step the policy back away from the details that it's saying too much at the same time as it affirms that staff need to develop the right SOPs and guidelines and such. >> Another one, yeah, another one has to do perfect in that is the um timing of the
contract renewals. For example, let's say you have a program that wants to start and advertise to people wants to start, I don't know, October 15th and your contract comes out in December. like the timing is not right for that because they don't know what their costs are going to be. So hearing again not from us but again from OAF having a very
clear protocol for contracts for after school programs you know we'll make sure that it's like I don't know one month before your program starts or whatever it is some that's all on OAF's side to be more transparent about that so that everyone knows what's going on. So I I
agree with you 100%. Should not be in the policy, >> but we but we want to read what the process is and that's for them to do. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you very much, Jesse, for that and Mariah for u for taking this forward.
>> Okay. Uh our next item is a draft instructional materials policy. Um so yeah, Jesse, you want to update us on that? >> No, I I haven't seen anything. So yeah. >> Okay. I don't know if I missed it. >> Instructional materials. I don't
believe that was in my list for this meeting. Was it? >> Uh, okay. Um, I think it was part of the it was part of the the overall plan, but that's fine. We can defer it. Um, >> I'm saying I don't think it was even I don't remember being assigned it unless this related to >> I thought you had talked about it,
Jesse, when we were having our planning meeting and you flagged it because it was part of the resolution. Well, yeah, I would have been I'm saying I would have been happy to work on it except that when we gave out what was going to be done for each meeting, I don't recall that this was on that list. Okay. >> Okay.
>> I can definitely u Okay, I'll I'll write it down now so that I'll make it happen. That's all for next video. Okay. Instructional materials policy. Yeah. Okay. I got it. I'm sorry if I misunderstood. >> Um no worries. So, we had also originally been planning to discuss the civil rights policy. Um, I was supposed
to bring a draft, but I I pulled that from the agenda because um, we had the competency determination, so I didn't think we'd have enough time. >> So, that leaves us um, actually quite a bit of time for new business. Um, so, you know, we're not supposed to be discussing in a real substantive way
these items, but I did list two items that, um, based on communications I received, I reasonably expected would come up. I think that's that we're obliged to do that if if like we can p we can predict that something will be raised. Um and so those two items are um
possible sorry uh possible revisions to the personal electronic device policy that we passed last year and a potential policy on acceptable use of AI. And again these are we're not supposed to be discussing these substantively more just exploring whether this is something we'd
even like to bring up at a later meeting. Uh so Jesse yeah go ahead. >> Yes. I'll just say that um um I took a stab at the at the um at the at the um this is at the high school level because last year in our policy again this is
open information. Everyone knows this that our elementary school one is off and away. It does on an enforcement side. What some parents tell me is that um kids that bring smartwatches to school that are not just smart because they're digital and do like track your your steps but actually connect to the
network um are you know there's maybe an enforcement gap there even in K to8 that you know we have to figure that out but on the BHS side I think we've heard it at school committee also that in public comment that there's a um concern about having kids even in passing time or in
lunch um having um personal electronic devices available to them that are not you know school in the classroom kinds of devices. So, I did take a stab and sent it into Betsy a couple days ago um that that works to simplify what we
passed last year and provides a very brief um set of guidelines on um like violations. In other words, what are the consequences as you step through having it happen to once, twice, third times. So, I'm not sure if the um you know, I I suggested maybe we could share that with
um with Anthony and Hal and see what they think and maybe then docket it for you know, an upcoming um an upcoming policy meeting. It's not I mean controversial maybe, but I'm saying it's not complicated in terms of uh what the wording needs to be because we'd like to
we'd like to essentially we're getting ahead of where the attorney general's offices which when um I heard I heard I heard Andrea Campbell talk at a meeting uh a few months back and this is something that's you know in their center of their target is off and away all day. So it just hasn't worked its
way through all the legislature yet. So, you know, it could be the school districts are just like we did a year ago are sort of jumping to try to get their arms around this earlier. I think Bella has >> Yeah, >> thank you.
Um, Whoops. Well, when um I I would appreciate if actually I'm aware of um policy discussions and I totally agree. Um we would seek the input of the building
leaders especially age appropriate building leaders but um but I just would I would prefer it come through me and then I I delegate just so I know so I so I don't miss things. Actually, it's just
so I don't miss anything like I know it's happening. Um, >> so anyway, just >> so I I sent the ped one to Betsy. I'm happy to either have her forward it to you or I can send it to you, whichever you'd like. >> Sure. Or Betsy, I don't know. However
Betsy wants to manage it because she'll know what I need to see. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And probably Betsy needs to know where the copies went so she knows who got what. >> Oh, no. Oh, it hasn't been sent out to anyone else. >> Okay. >> Just the sub just our policy subcommittee.
>> Yeah. So, I think go through Betsy because then Betsy will know who got what in in organizationally. Yeah. >> Yeah. This is very early. It has been for any outside discussion external to this subcommittee. >> The question is even whether uh whether
there's sufficient uh interest in taking this up to the point where we would ask the superintendent to check in with staff about it. I think we're we're at that earliest stage in my view that that's what this discussion would be about. >> So I would defer to you on that and then
when you're ready for it to come to to the schools to school administration to look at then I can take it from there and it wouldn't be to stand in the way um for the review by all appropriate staff. It's just so I know >> so I I know what's happening. All right.
Thank you. >> That's great. Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. So I guess that's the question. Is there sufficient interest in taking this forward? So Jesse, I assume that you having drafted something means that you are interested in um in having the
school committee work on this. Mariah, what do you think? >> Um so remind me how does this compare though with the legislation that was like why are we >> the legislation hasn't been passed yet? It is the legislation if passed and
approved by the attorney general's office would be off and away all day. So we we essentially are not there yet. K to8 is off and away all day. The high school allowed students to um use their phones during passing time. Uh bathroom
breaks and I guess in the cafeteria. So it's sort of a you know it's sort of like an intermediate thing, right? It's not all the way yet. and um it when it's when the law finally is passed and the AG office let's say is what they said they're going to pass it um then it will
supersede our policy. So is >> so my feeling is unless unless Bella hears from the building leaders that they think that our policy needs to be updated at this point I don't I wouldn't move on it does >> that answer the question I mean that was a new policy so it and there's
legislation pending so I don't feel a huge amount of Well, the thing was is that there wasn't any The reason that our policy last year, Mariah, was put in in the first place was because the building leaders came up, if I recy, help me here. I'm
pretty sure the building leaders the summer before when they met with us uh and we brought the building leaders in to meet with us on their highest level priorities. Um they in unison almost all said, you know, we got to we got to deal with these cell phones. So
>> but then they dealt with it. So that's why I don't understand what >> they worked over the summer to come up with a bunch of different policy versions and then it ended up in the school committee to look at a you know at a formalized policy that after the school leaders looked at building leaders looked at what policy
subcommittee came up with they all agreed I mean it went to Lionus and the thing you know >> right and I said Mike my point is there process very recently >> right well a year ago. So now, so, so the thing, the thing was the early the early one, >> if I recall, I could go back way back,
said that even at the high school level, it's off and away all day. And the BHS came back saying that after it was reviewed on the school side, they said, "Well, we we're going to, you know, our our our intermediate position is passing time, lunchtime, um, bathroom time. They
can pull it off the little holder on the way into the classroom and use it." And so that was sort of a compromise. you know, we we we agreed um as a school committee, we voted to go with the current uh peed policy that allows this
a bit of use during the day for 9 to 12. Now, >> what's the problem we're trying to fix, though? I'm still like, what? >> Well, the problem is to to um extend the off and away that is currently in K to 8 all the way up to 12. Just kidding.
>> High school asked for that. >> Well, you mean administration? No. >> Correct. >> I don't believe so. So, >> Bella has her hand up. So, I want to like Did the high school ask for that bill? >> So, I I think um I feel that Jesse's is trying to be responsive to what he heard
at public comment. And so, public comment there. So, obviously a staff member expressed their opinion about it. I couldn't tell you if that represents where the the high school wants to go,
administration and or staff. Um, so that could be something I could bring up to them and so on and your I can do that and see. Um, I really don't I don't know what the answer is to that. >> Um, but I do think it probably is worth
a check in. Um and and respectfully, you know, people who come to public comment are expressing their their voice as they should. Um but it doesn't necessarily represent the body. And I and I and maybe it does,
maybe it doesn't, but I don't know the answer to that. So I can do a check-in with them. I'm happy to. >> Right. Right. I mean, I think I think um um Bob made a comment um I think last week uh if I something along the lines
of that, you know, the social interactions that occur um from not having this device in the way um has been shown through the research um and uh and you know through studies as being
um dramatic if they don't have these if if kids aren't you know besieged with these devices and the issues about bullying, just bullying and harassment. It goes on and on. So, we know it's a problem, I guess, in a sense. Um um yeah, I mean, if you can take it to your
leadership um and the schools and and and float the idea and see if they think, yeah, well, you know, it's sort of like we're waiting for it to happen. Once it happens at the state level, it's going to be taken out of our hands. So to to to be to be, you know, ahead of the
curve a little bit and to say um the Kaid building leaders agreed we don't want them at all during the day and the high school went part way. So let's see what they think and then we can always circle back. I agree with you. >> Yes, happy to check in with them and I I
appreciate that your your interest in it and everyone actually all your interest in it. Um, but let me check in with them. >> And I just want to say >> just please make it clear that it's not that the school committee is going to do [clears throat] a policy and we want
their input. It's um we're at the stage where we're checking to see whether whether they feel there's a problem that needs solving here. >> Okay. And and just to like add, I heard Bob and I heard the public commenter and there's a whole bunch of different feelings and
student needs that we can't presume. And like I just want if we're going to have this conversation, it needs to be an actual conversation. And I don't presume that the state legislation legislate legislation is going to pass either. like there's a lot more to this and
acting in haste and swinging wildly from one extreme to the other to me is not appealing. So to make a change so quickly after the first change it would truly have to be because there is an actual problem here
>> in my opinion again just my opinion. >> Okay thank you. Yeah so the the goal of this uh discussion has been fulfilled in my view. Um, okay. So, the the other item that I reasonably expected would come up uh was um a potential policy on acceptable use
of AI. And we've already heard from the superintendent on that subject at a school committee meeting. Um, and you [clears throat] know, that that that is reinforced by actually MASC guidance around this subject like in their policy newsletter. You know, they're not providing any any any kind of a draft on
AI. And in fact, they're, you know, they're saying if a district wants to develop any policy in this area, like we advise taking the approach of crafting an overall statement of intent and deferring specifics to the appropriate administrators. The overall idea here is that it the field is in flux and it
touches on so many aspects of how we do schools um that it's really not for a school committee to weigh in at this point. But, you know, I know there's been a lot of public interest in this. So we're we're hearing quite a bit. Um and so I wanted to check in with the subcommittee
on you know >> clarity. Have any of the schools wasn't it was it a DT who'll tell us the high school administrators were >> I thought someone told us somewhere that the high school administrators were
working on some sort of AI guidelines. >> Actually was that you Bella? >> Yes. So, um, Scott was working with and actually >> Scott, >> yeah, Scott. Yes. And also other high school administrators and other high school staff have been working on it and
they've been doing PD um over the summer and actually there's a conference this week that I'm going other other principles are going. It's something that we're deeply interested about. It's not it's but I don't know that we're ready
at all to say what that policy should be. Um I have been personally tapping into other colleagues that are working on this. So I would say we're all looking at it. If there's if a if a model policy pops up, we'll definitely
grab it and look at it. Um I think people agree it's just not something we cannot think about. Um and I think it's fair to say that um
we'll probably integrate some some youth. It's just a the guidance is tricky like oh you know how to do that. Um, curiously, I think about a year ago, I looked to see what MAC and Desi said and they both said there's going to be
guidance coming out and then they both backed off. So, I so I know that that changed and it's a it's a indication of um how developing a guidance will be tricky.
So I sent you last week fella the guidance on teaching and I just want to say I wanted to just share quickly if I can. So Nor Eastern has an actual policy around use of AI overall and it breaks it into several different areas. I'll just scroll down but there's standards
for AI and administrative work for research and then for generative AI in teaching. And the reason that I bring this up is because often we think about the issues around teaching but there really are these other things right like how are we going to use AI in you know some of our operational things and other
things that are happening and it also thinks like has you think about um the systems having about using attribution about checking for accuracy about ensuring that you're not including confidential information in them. So again, this might be a resource as
you're thinking about what a policy could be versus the guidelines and some of the overarching things about data safety um attribution and sort of quality like fact-checking and ensuring the quality of product. So I'd be happy to share that too if that would be interesting just as a
>> right >> comparison because the guidelines are not in the policy. the guidelines are much more active and evolving um reflecting the but the policy is really about these overarching issues that we really need to be continuing to be aware of and how we don't just start throwing
in a system without having it being validated at you know for these confidentiality safety and quality and accuracy um >> so that so the dilemma is there might be very sound guidelines already out there
but then how do you support the staff to be able to implement those guidelines. Do so, so you see. So that's the dilemma. So they because that's that's another level of training. And um I'm
going to say people have different capacity to adapt to new technologies faster or slower than others. And um so so it's I'm going to say that's the dilemma. So I don't well so I'll say that at Nor Eastern again I'm just using
it because I think it's actually gone pretty well at work but what I will say is Nor Eastern is sort of a institutionally an early adopter and there's a lot of people who are not interested in adopting and so I think that you're and and actually are like ethically opposed to the adoption for
myriad reasons right so so how you make space appropriately for that I think is really valuable >> so there so there you go so so Yes. So there so there there may be guidelines that sound reasonable and there you're going to have a difference opinion but also difference in capacity
>> to be able like to have a guidance can you implement it. Um so we will figure out the the thing is we do have to figure it out because it is here. So, and um >> and I think there's a value to model to
model good adoption, healthy adoption, ethical adoption, responsible adoption for students, right? Because >> it Yes. So, they make so they make the decisions about the use of it. Um and again, it it runs into a capacity issue
about how to do that. It does require some training. it's it's um to ensure there's some thoughtful support about how to use it. Um so so we are looking at it um
and and definitely looking at um our our comp our neighboring districts, other districts, what they're going to do. So it's it's open. It's open right now. I to so I think I said at school committee for us to know what that policy should be. um that's practical that could be
applied practically in our schools um I think is a little further away than than now. >> Okay. Thanks. So I think as far as the school committee is concerned uh I'm content to leave it there for now. >> Yes. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Can I add in one more thing? Sorry. >> We're still on new business. Yeah. >> Okay. North just as related to this that Nor Eastern also has a um NSF funded program um for the it's to address the critical need to address AI competency
in STEM educators in K12. And I think there were some Brookline faculty who participated in this last summer. They've had the first summer of this. So there might be some opportunities too to do some peer sharing at least among the STEM faculty. And if not Bella, I'm sure that there would be an opportunity as
well if you're interested. I'd be happy to. This is something that's led out of my college and if there's some interesting for some interest in PD around this area. Okay. So, I'd be happy to connect you with the um with the program leads on that. You're on mute.
You're still on mute. Bella, you're on mute. >> All right. Thank you. Um I was aware there was definitely formal training done um in the summer but I don't know ex I don't know who they trained with. So maybe this was one one one thing that
they did but I thought there was yes there was a a study group that >> yeah there might have been and I'll check and see. >> Right. >> And there is also um a conference at the Hines um this Thursday. So, actually
some of the K8 principles are going. Um, I am going and unfortunately the group that was on the call earlier, they're in Philadelphia, so they can't go. So, those of us that are here, some of us are going that are are in town on Thursday.
>> Is this the IMEC or something else? >> We don't know. >> Um, AIX maybe. >> Okay. >> All right. >> I was thinking Okay. >> Yeah, it's at the highs. So you probably >> there's another one at the hinds at the same time that other people are going to, but >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Great. Is there any more new business before we um quickly go over what we might take up at our next meeting? >> Okay. So for our next meeting at at the least we I think we should be looking at the civil rights policy that was originally supposed to be looked at
today. And then Mariah, I believe you thought that um the fiscal section might be ready to look at by December. >> Okay. So glad you mentioned this because the um we're talking about December 15th. What day are we talking about?
>> December 15th, right? >> When is the subcommittee meeting? >> Remember? Oh, no. You weren't there, Betsy. Last night, expenditures and revenues we talked about. >> It's currently December 9th. Mariah, >> December 9th. Yes. Okay. So, expenditures and revenues
got moved to December 9th at 5. And that's the budget presentation. That was apparently the only time Bella could do that the committee could do. I wasn't involved in the scheduling. That's when it got scheduled for which overlaps with this meeting. So this meeting needs to
move. >> Yes. >> Okay. That's and I have not had the chance to meet with Susan. So I would like to push finance if we could to January. >> Uh say that again. >> I haven't had the chance to meet with Susan. So I would like to push the finance section to January
>> January policy. Yeah. >> Okay. Just remember that uh we undertake in theou to you know to >> report out >> to be able to to publicize some updates or what we've done on the updates by March 1st I believe it is. So we should make we should be making some progress before
>> we'll clearly make progress by then. But [clears throat] which um which which expenditure on revenues is it? Schools sub >> school subcommittee because that's when the because the presentation to school committee on the budget is the third sort of with more details the next level down and then >> it was going to be the 8th but can't be
there so it'll be the nth. >> No problem. I just didn't have enough clarifying. Okay. No problem. Thanks. >> Okay. >> Okay. So then we'll figure out when to hold the next meeting and also what to put in it. Um since fiscal is going to move out to January. Well, I I'll I'll
look at instructional materials. Okay. I mean, I have that on my list. >> Okay. Bella. >> So, we were So, this is the This is the number that we were told to produce by 12:30 and so it's at 129. Okay. Okay. Thank you.
>> So, you're going to present it to school committee on the 3rd and I said to them, you need to watch the tape on the 3rd and then you can ask questions on the 9th. >> Got it. We meet We meet on the 4th, not on the 3rd, though. Just >> I'm sorry. The fourth. >> Okay. Okay. Whatever it is. >> The fourth. >> The fourth.
>> Yeah. >> Yes. Sorry. >> Thank you. >> We don't have a final meeting before that. That's fine. >> Okay. Thanks. >> All right. Then uh if that's all then thank you everyone and we'll work out um the next meeting. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Good night everybody. Bye. >> Thanks.