Okay, we're recording. Thank you. Um, welcome to the September 26, 2025 meeting of the full school committee as well as a subcommittee finance subcommittee meeting. Um, before I turn it over to Mariah, I just want to
give a lot of thanks to Bella and Susan and Karen for all of their work on um the questions that were submitted. They were not easy questions to get at. some of them were um not things that we track nor should we
track. Um but I but I I just wanted to say thank you to your team before we get to that section. And um I know Mariah's going to go through the minutes before we get there, but um thank you for getting on that and getting that um ready and just about in shape to go over
to the ENR subcommittee. All right, Mariah. Okay. Um, first item on the finance subcommittee agenda before we go to the discussion of the document is um approval of the September 10th, 2025 finance subcommittee minutes. And as we
um as Betsy noted a moment ago, there um was one edit and that was distributed this morning. Um can I get a motion for approval? Yeah, I'll I'll move to approve them with the one sentence edit. Okay, I'll second it. Thank you. Sarah, how do you vote?
Yes. Um Carolyn, how do you vote? She's not on the subcommittee. It's Donna and Jess. Oh, it's Donna. Sorry. And now Donna is working. She was going to try to make it, but of course she's at work right now, so Okay, gotcha. And Jesse, how do you vote? Yes.
Okay. And I vote yes. Thank you. Um, so next item is the document that Bella um and Susan prepared along with Karen and um probably other contributions along the way. So, thank you to everyone as Val said, Bella, if you want to pull
that up, Bella, what would be helpful to the group? Do you want feedback or or just are you showing us this to just to show it to us? What how do you envision this being useful? Sure. I appreciate that and I um thank
you for for um your comments of support um especially to Karen and Susan for creating the responses in this document. I also want to thank Malcolm and um Margaret and Joe because the there were some related questions to
beep to me and um just to some questions around space use. So I wanted to also appreciate them. I also want to um acknowledge for all of us that this is a new process for any of us because again
we are we're several of us are new to to our positions here at um PSB but also new to this process, new to these committees. And so, um, we appreciate the patience that was given to us while
we, um, while we, while we resolve the answers to the questions that were being asked, I do want everyone to know that, um, it it was a lot of work to do, but, also because we wanted to make sure the
answers we offered were accurate. And so that required um any one of us to be looking at records or seeking answers in in areas that weren't created by us but are in the but are in the archives or in
our histories. we can speak more um personally to FY25, FY26, some of us um but just so you know that our endeavor was to make sure that all the
information is correct. Um and then we'll we'll go from there. And so when you ask how best to do it, I'm going to offer and you can always make comment because again this is um we haven't done this before. I think um the
committee members got a copy of the doc and so I think it's best to scroll through and then Mariah do you suggest we we scroll through the whole thing or how to take questions or comments and I
thought we'll take a record of the questions and comments and I think Betsy will help us as well so we may edit the document further. We are hoping that's essentially g is the document that we
would share with R& also um we realized as we were preparing this for the revenues and expenditures committee that it was such a substantial document it didn't occur to us when we were looking at it initially that it should go before
school committee before it went to another body and so I want to thank all the members that were able to make this meeting on short notice us and so it was um we didn't we didn't think about it didn't occur to us at first but it we
realized that it was something that we needed to do before we sent it off. Okay. So, should we So, I'll go ahead and share. Do you think it's best? Why don't Why don't um before you share, what I'm what I'm wondering is if maybe we take sort of big picture rather than
like nitty-gritty questions, we if people want to make like very overarching comments and questions and then maybe we can do some scrolling if people have detailed questions. What I'm going to ask people to do is if you have typo questions or like stuff like that, park it and email it to them. Let's not
spend time on that at all. Let's really focus on like um first big picture and then we can go through some of the questions. I think is the document I'm trying to remember. Is it 10 pages long? Nine pages? It's um 23. It's even longer than I It was so
well written. It just flew by my eyes. It felt like a shorter document. Um but why don't we again why don't we start with big picture questions and then we can maybe go down from there if that sounds okay to you Bella. So we should go through the whole doc or just
I want to start with some just have people give their sort of feedback generally on the document and then I think maybe we will go through the document page by page and let people if there's anything specific they want to comment. I don't want you to read things but maybe just have people comment on if there's anything on a certain page so we
can scroll through but I don't want us to we have a limited amount of time and I want everyone to be very conscientious of the amount of time we have. So to the extent their comments can even reference multiple pages like as we get along.
So why don't you go ahead Caroline with the first big picture comment. Oh, where'd you go? There you um so I'm glad you said that because my my question is a sort of big picture question. Um so I was working my way
through the question document when the answers came. Um, and I've I think read most of it. So I guess my kind of question to I guess Bella and the team is knowing
the charge and the work of the expenditures and revenue study committee um and and given these questions, what was sort of your approach? I mean whatever the very
specifics of the question and whether they referred to things that you know we may or may not have um information on. So, one, when it came to things like that, like things that we might not track in the way that they of course understandably might have been asked by
people who aren't school department people, were we going back and saying like, "Hey, can you clarify this cuz this is how we think of that and this is how we do track that." And in order and like what are you really driving at? And then that's also like an overarching
question like what is the sense of the the approach of both the questions from the committee and then the responses from PSB in the context of collaborating on uh
working towards an override ask. what was sort of the the approach and to to providing the answers? I think to answer your question, um it was clear to me that that this group of
um members of the revenues and expenditures committee that they they're charged with determining what they might recommend to the select board on whether there should be an override or not. And so they
collectively created questions that they felt they needed answers to to be able to make that decision. And so I think we addressed the questions in good faith
that they were asked by the members of the committee for that purpose. So I think we just looked at everything in good faith and how we could best answer those questions. There were times um where we
the way the questions were worded, we tried to um read into what the question was asking for and providing the information we thought the question was asking for. So sometimes there were terms used that we thought, no, we think
they really we think they're looking for this. So again, I think we approached everything in good faith that these are questions being asked and to answer them with the information that they were looking for. There are there are
sometimes where we felt um we didn't have it's we didn't have the information in the way that would have been able for us to access to answer the question. We noted that when that when that was the case.
Yeah. Um, and so very occasionally though, I think that that happened very occasionally, we were answering what we felt were the substantive big questions around um big cost drivers in in the budget.
Um, we I have to say that um I want to be clear, we haven't been working on the responses since July nor August. we really needed to open schools
first and quite literally we needed to make sure the buses ran on time before we could move on to these other things. But really there are a lot of things around school opening that we made we needed to make sure but it has been a concerted effort once we were able to
turn our attention to that. All right. Sure. Of course. And sorry, I'm going to follow up quickly. And of course, we all assume that everything is approached in good faith by by everyone. And so um
I guess and I'd be interested in hearing at some point and I suppose we will like so my understanding of the committee I suppose there's an if but I I guess I assume I suppose it's possible that they won't recommend an override but
my understanding is that it's um sort of a how much and what the justifications are for the public, not just the if. So, um, so hopefully the questions were sort of ones that will will be I I whether
they're looking for kind of data to be able to um to make those kinds of determinations or answer questions about I guess efficiencies and stuff. But so I'll I'll be really interested to hear um the the conversation.
Can I follow up on that? Um I don't see any other hands up and and my big picture comment was and I'm not sure this is a question necessarily for you B. It might be for um members of the expenditures and revenues committee or or I guess you were there as well is the
very first section of the document that they provided um right at the top talks about like need to haves, cost control, revenue opportunities. But then the questions were quite specific and didn't necessarily
allow for um didn't necessarily allow for you to openly discuss for example cost control measures or revenue opportunities the things that they were requesting. So I'm just sort of curious whether there was any direction to you about um or not
about just answer the questions or really we're trying to understand these top things through the lens of some of our questions. Do you understand what I'm trying to ask about the difference sort of it seems like there's two different intentions right? So um the document that you see
we didn't change any of the wording right of the questions or the preamble. So you can see where our responses are and we wanted to maintain the integrity of the document as it was presented to us. So I think we were just
we were we were told that we should well anyway it was our these are the questions answer the questions but I have said um alternatively that once these questions are done we would like the opportunity to address the bigger
questions that you've alluded to as part of the process of building the budget next year and forecasting Um, and this is something that we've talked about in our other conversations. This is more or less the topics in the in the guidelines that we've been talking
about. Jesse, I see your hand. Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Bella. Sorry. So, we so we really hope to be able to present this and then be able to move forward to the to the to the next part. Jesse, do you have a comment about the intent of sort of the front the
background section versus the detailed questions? Right. Yes. So, just to follow up on um what Bella said, the reason that um that our little subcommittee that put the questions together from the revenues expendure side left those six bullets at
the top was to sort of play fair. In other words, what what what I made sure to say there is that this is what we asked from every department. And in a sense, you know, the school is called the school department. So it was seemed very fair to share with Bella and the
team the same um focal areas that we were looking for even though um we said in the next paragraph that we're not expecting PSV to do comparison in comparable districts. We're not you know we're if there's a comparison they can do yes but if not we're not requesting it. So what we wanted to do is just give
them the parameters that we asked, you know, the same thing from public works and the same thing from veterans affairs, right? Was to ask the school district. These are the kinds of areas that revenue and expenditures is looking at and we wanted them to know what we've asked other people so that they could um
place their answers in some context. We were not expecting them to necessarily have the same kind of um need to answer all those six bullets as others as uh as the other departments did across the town. Um the second Go ahead.
Oh, go No, go ahead. Second thing I I Yeah, three comments. The second one was that there um I want to be clear that this looks like a draft that's partially completed. Uh in reading it through, there were areas said data have not been compiled yet. nothing has been written on this at this
time or something like that which reads to me if I'm you know if I'm sitting on the expenditure and revenue side as here's here's some of the a whole bunch of things have been answered um but there's still areas that have not been answered and they weren't written in the
sense again it was a lot to look at in the last you know two hours between everything else but there were as I scan through the entire thing there were some areas that are you know have data to to digest and there are other areas that don't it doesn't say we won't answer this. It just says we haven't done it
yet. So I just wanted to ensure that we're not looking at this as the official response to expenditure and revenue. Um the third was and I don't know I don't know if it's been sent already. I don't know. And then the uh
third thing was is that there was a question about Desi in there. Um, I did send Susan um before this meeting uh the report. I mean, I'm not sure uh it wasn't difficult to find, but it said they weren't clear, and I'm not
if we made a mistake in not giving them the clear link, I apologize for that, but she does have it down from page six. Um, go ahead, Bella. I um so I had written Bernard
to get clarification on what the reports were because I thought that was the right person to ask and so they are what they are there. I think I think our responses to the other questions though
address what might have been um what they were looking for. I will say actually we consider this um we thought we consider this complete um but we um are open to your comments.
We um invested a lot of time and we do feel that these are complete. Is it it was it um in the materials fee part I Mariah maybe I'm not sure I remember exactly but Mariah isn't wasn't there something when school committee looked
at it last time there were two columns in the materials fee thing in the meeting when we voted on it one had to do with like if your first child and if you have additional children and there were different values or something like that there's a discount for a second child there's not a different value necessarily a discount
yes that would make the the income different if you had two or three children in the system, right? I mean, in other words, in terms of the data that were provided showed it only as one one fee, but I thought that
we voted on something that had like, like you say, a discount for additional children. So, that might be a good addition. Those are the kinds of things that I think we should be providing feedback on outside of this meeting. Just like little factual Sure. you know, little details like that or
typos or anything like that. I think we can provide those kinds of things offline. Um Val, go ahead. Thanks. Um I just want to say that that Bella and team in the context of the bullets and the the way that you
answered the questions, I thought that you did a great job of when you could um talking about both um potential revenues and where we had already uh sort of maximized revenue. for instance, in the uh possibility of
tuitioning in for some of our um special ed programs and as a new revenue source and then also the increases that we have made to beat tuition that really put us um on the higher end of the the public
school early tuition. So, um I I I just wanted to call out that you you did I think a great job of um adding where you could comments on um where the district has made uh efficiencies and increased revenue already and where we still
perhaps could could do so. Um, and then also I I read the uh the responses that Jesse was referring to is we we just don't break down our kids by whether they're MECO students or um a resident student
for some of the special ed costs. And tell me if I'm misinterpreting that, but that's how I read that as as something that wasn't going to be able to be determined. Not in any easy way. I was I was conf I don't know if confused is the right word
but there was multiple places where I think this is what you're alluding to Val. It said like uh the question had to do with student services and the answer was more or less student services includes um you know guidance nursing um as well
as special education. There was multiple categories and we can't provide that breakdown. Um, I think that I guess my question was if it had said if the question had said special education instead of student services, would you have answered it differently?
We did produce information on whether students were on IEPs or not and we even categorize, you know, out of district in district services. We did do that. So that is something that is more document and we
broke it out by the groups. It was the other the other interventions or supports one might we we didn't we just don't tabulate the students that way. Well I just I'll give one this example. Brookline's responsible for providing
the required student services for materials fee students. Please require please provide the annual expenses incurred um for these services in the past three fiscal years. So just so I'm clear, can do we are we able to I guess you're saying we can't fractionally
attribute special education costs or any of those costs to any direct students like we can with tuition because all of them are like how do you count half an hour of a group pull out or something like that? Like you can't really attribute costs like that. Okay, that's helpful. Um, I think that it'll be
helpful just to have to have that understanding of everybody up front. Um, are there other Sorry, I have and this might be a little bit detaily but it might be appropriate just responding to what you're saying Mariah but but we can
when it comes to like one-on-one paras for example that would seem like something tabulable. Is that not right? I guess the like but then it would be incomplete data, right?
It would just be like one cost. But there's the question's really asking I'm just saying that generally that's that if the question was asked how many one-on-one paras are we
employing there's an there's an answer to that that's just sort of a a fact answer that has a that has a dollar amount connected to it. Correct. But we're not we're not so obviously we we track the number of
students that are receiving different levels of interventions. um like if but we're not tracking the questions asking us to track it in a way and actually create
databases that we don't have and I think the preamble suggested that they weren't expecting us to do that. It was so there was quite a bit of time invested in just actually pulling the data and cross-checking. Um,
but it it's not it it's just not tabulations that we have ready to access. Thank you, Bella. Donna, just to reinforce what I think Bella is saying and what I think you are saying,
Mariah, some supports, tier one supports are not special education supports. So, not all tier one supports or special education supports. Special education supports are are
likely um can be likely monetized in some way. Okay. And I think Bella provided that information to some extent, but not all paras are special education paras. Um, and not all services are being delivered under
special education. So maybe if they are delivered under special education, that data is more likely to exist in some form or is that right? Is that does that make is that right? I don't think that's what we're saying. I think it's that like the the that
there is as I'll reuse what Bella just said. There is no database that for example attributes 0.03 of of teacher X's salary to certain students. So there's no actual
calculation of like student student X costs $4,000 in special education cuz we do not ascribe specific fractions of effort. It would take like a whole fleet of people to do the to do this sort of
like work of actually linking um instructional effort to individual students. And so like any data that would be provided would be like just not necessarily even accurate. Does that make sense, Donna?
Well, I was thinking more about grid services, but I don't even know that, you know, look, I don't even know that it's what the return on investment is to providing such detailed information. So yeah, that's my point of like the amount of work it would take you to accurately
have that updated for like how much each student is using if they are a again I give my example if they are one student in a five student pullout group for speech once a week like does it actually make sense to do that math or would we spend more money doing the math
right having someone do the math right so but we have some idea given the the given the the data the table that Bella provided with um how many students are in special have special education services like a very rough number
but I think that part of this that and I my interpretation of this document is that the expenditures and revenues committee is interested in discovering whether there are excess costs associated with materials fee and metco students right and so to the extent that you the data
that was presented is aggregate but it's not attributable to MECO students or materials fee students. We do segregate out um the special ed services but just not not the other
generalized supports. Right. That's what I was trying to say. You could come up with a dollar amount for the or you just you can say you could calculate the minutes on their grids. Like when you say you segregate out the services, what does that mean? just that if they were they were in district
substantially separate fully included partially it's in it's a nut right and we separated out by all all and macco material fee students
yes but not at like a dollar amount I guess if they wanted to say oh you could save x dollars by we would have to pull out you know kid by kid and do that analysis it's not It's not in a database for us. We certainly have our kids in the aggregate.
Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Carolyn. Oh, my sounds been on. Um, thanks. So, and I mean this to be helpful completely and not argumentative, especially because again like uh I've sort of with
one ear attended some of the committee meetings. I just read through these questions. I didn't even finish it. I didn't completely finish reading the answers. Um, so Mariah, like I think you just said, the question was designed to
tell us or they were a they were asking whether there are excess costs associated with materials fee students and METCO students. Um, so I if it's helpful,
what I read this document, my my take on this document was that the committee is trying to understand what the costs are. Um, and it doesn't feel sort of that directed and and it makes sense to me um
that there's a need to understand like where where the big drivers are. Um, and you know, perhaps whether funds can be allocated differently. I
don't know. I mean, I'm guessing, but um and and I didn't read it as sort of looking for like super specific um granular data
about specific students. But again, like my assumption is that the, you know, everybody's rowing in the same direction on this committee and just trying to get a handle on what are the big drivers,
you know, and and I don't know, are there going to be other ways to look at things or what do we what do we do with that? Um, so I'm not sure what my point is exactly, but just as someone who hasn't been deeply involved, like I sort
of I read this as as a kind of just kind of general questions um for for people who aren't part of the school system to just get some data on what's going on.
Okay. Um, if there's any more overarching questions, maybe we can just go to people's specific questions. Um, if you want to pull up the document, Bella, I think what we're going to do is we're going to scroll page by page and
then it's going to be I'm not saying it's going to be a total speak now or forever hold your peace moment, but we're going to try to not dwell on page one or any specific page. Agreed. And again, this is not for you to correct typos or anything. This is like big picture.
So, is this situated correctly for you? Good. Okay. Yes. I think that's a good size for people to you know, you've chosen the leadite to share the screen. We can have someone else share if you want Betsy to pull it up. No, no. Betsy needs her handsree.
Okay. Okay. To um Okay. So, I go ahead. Yep. Just scroll. And then I'm gonna I'm gonna have people yell or call out Don't try and raise your hand, but just call out if you'd like to make a comment on things and then we'll stop for you. Um I was going to say on this section,
um um Mariah um when someone's reading the first bullet in the public or from ERSC, they're not going to they're going to see this this paragraph answer that doesn't say anything about the cost. So it might be helpful for Bell or someone editing it to put something at the
beginning of the first answer saying see table below just so that the first three bullets by the time you get to page if you're reading on page one there's no answer even for the second one there's no answer then suddenly there's a table so or maybe the table would just be moved up or something like that just so
that the question that says where's the analysis undertaken of the costs associated isn't a paragraph answer but actually the costs Just a suggestion there. So we can say for the um other bullet see below C chart below something like that.
Um but we this is there is no cost analysis um in doing this. It's it's about cost avoidance. you would have to do
I guess you could take all the students that are in programs and if you didn't have the program what it would cost to send them out a district then you would have to come with a range of out of district programs that would have been the alternative I don't know how you
want to do it if you want to come up with that average that is quite so I mean that that's a lot of work but that would be how you would do it So this is generally explanation of cost avoidance. If you really wanted to monetize it,
again, you take all the kids, figure out what it would cost to send them out of district plus the special ed tuition. I um you know, talking about big drivers in in in this part of the budget, we've
we are we've shared the tuition numbers um and their special ed transportation. We've also made it clear the MECO students and material fee students actually aren't aren't they don't they don't receive
tuition services or special ed transportation. So in a way I think the answer to that question may be implicit in that in that assumption. I think that I'm gonna agree with Jesse that the way the question is answered
does not necessarily clearly respond to the question and there might be an opportunity to tweak the wording a little bit while still keeping what you have in there Bella a little bit too. Um, so okay. So like putting in
I don't think we need to do it now. Let's do it offline. But I just think let's put a pin in this question to tweak the wording a little Yeah, I'm just trying to clarify what you're look you mean like maybe give tuition ranges like if we didn't run this program this many student and the tuition ranges are such
well I don't think we're looking at the avoidance I I I saw this completely differently I didn't look at it as avoidance I think the question from expenditure and revenue is what does it cost to have out of district programs and how much are we spending on settlements and
you know one of the things Dr. Schwanker told us last year is obviously if we can avoid settlements which are a big payout then we reduce an exposure. So um out of it's just a clarity around what is our added district placement which are
required to do for because we can't provide the service in house. We're not looking I think as at an entire analysis of what would it look like if we brought everything that out of district does into back into the district. What would that cost versus what we're doing now? I think it was to in my view more of what you have in that table. This is what it
cost two years ago, this year, you know, three years, this year, and you know what where we're budgeting for next year so that there's clarity around around it. So when someone looks at the second line that says claims and settlements is going to go from Jesse, I'm going to park you now. I think your point has been made and there can be some adjustment of the content
here to for clarity. Everyone else, if your hands are up to talk about the clarity of this section, we're not going to keep talking about the clarity of this section. Point has been made. If you have something else you really need to say about the special education bit that you can see on the screen, the content in the table, hands up. But
otherwise, and I'm going to be brutal on cutting people off. Donna, go ahead. Donna's hand is down, Susan. Okay. Wait, no, no, my hand went down because you scared me. Not that I am scary considering. Go ahead, Donna. No, no, I'll be really quick. I think um
and I'm going to say this very respectfully, but I think the question was asked in a way that demonstrates that there maybe needs to be some education around how we get to the settlement part. So in my mind, the question isn't how do I
guess what I would say, Bill, it's not necessarily how much would it cost to take the programs out and people put people in out of district placements, but the reverse like if we built the pro if we built the programs in house, this is how much it would cost us so that they don't have to go out of district.
That's all I wanted to say. Susan, you're on mute if you're talking. three bullets are interrelated and in other sections um like for I agree. Let's not talk about that bit right now. Let's rewrite it in a larger chunk. If you're saying
I was just saying just put it all together. Exactly. Put it all together. Caroline, go ahead. Um apologies if this was said and I missed it. I was away for a second. Even though I'm on the school committee and I've probably received presentations
about this, I'm embarrassed but not too ashamed to say I still don't fully understand what settlements refers to. The question here is asked in the first bullet under special education underlined settlement placements.
I don't know if settlements is placements or settlements is when we pay for services that weren't received. So I wonder whether sort of what someone else was saying there might just be some um for the for everybody who doesn't
understand this granular that would be helpful. Sarah. So, I was thinking when Bella was speaking a second ago that the way that the document was given to the school department that there's a list of different questions doesn't really allow
for prioritizing what like the um either the biggest cost drivers are or the easiest levers to pull to make impact. And I was wondering if I could invite Bella after we have the conversation today to consider putting in a paragraph
at the beginning at the introduction that kind of sets um up the story by putting by um evaluating what might be the most important part of the story. Bella, do you think that that would be helpful?
Um there might maybe there's a to me this there's a lot of disperate questions so I I don't know if there's a cohesive story but um and so I actually have some thoughts on that that I think and honestly I'm sorry I put this part
in and I'm sorry we should just said C chart below. Yeah that's fine. So we're we're leading we're reading the questions quite literally says costs associated with our out of district and settlement placement. So, we interpreted that. Let's not get into the words of it,
Bella. I hate to cut you off and don't take it personally, please. But we're never going to get through this if we don't keep going. And I think Well, I absolutely do not have clarity on how you want us to address this part then. And I think you can tell me offline. Yeah, I can tell you offline. I think we have a good sense of what we need to do.
Okay. Yeah. And I I am frustrated because honestly I want to get past the questions and I really want to be working on forward thinking and so I want to be clear like we want to be done with this so we can go on to the real work. Yes.
Um keep going. Okay. Yep. Keep going. Keep going. Keep going. Again, if anyone has something they really want to weigh in on, um, they can.
I'm just moving till you tell me to. One comment on this one is that um I'm surprised that the year on your revenue information um that we don't have that because we file the paperwork. So, this should be something that's available through OSS because I thought OSS
submits it to the third party processor. Some of that Mariah is when does it get posted and then when is it showing up in Munis and there's a gap between the two. So I don't want to publish information that is in one record that nobody else sees and then have them look in Munice
or an official report and see a different number. I would still think that PSB should be very clear this is a lot of money and even if it's hasn't you can say I can't I don't know if the revenue has posted but this is what we have claimed. I think it's important to be very clear
about that, but it's significant and it's I think worth noting and not letting it go by unnoted here. Um, moving for tuitioned in students. I thought that two of our programs had already
been approved. I thought that the Winthrop House and ALC have been approved. Is that I I though I know we're not tuitioning in but I think it would be good to we're not just evaluating it right we've actually gone as far as getting the approval from the state. No that that isn't accurate on Winthrop
House. We have done all the beginning preliminary steps with the state. We've costed it out with the change of leadership. We put it on pause in terms of moving forward with actually tuitioning beginning the process. So we we don't have the final pieces from
DESIE for Winthrop House and ALC. We're beginning that process. So we haven't we haven't finished either one of those. Thank you for that. Sure. Um on this one about the special education stabilization fund, I was surprised to see that we have a neutral
stance on it because we had had a meeting as a as a committee in the spring possibly where we had um we had expressed interest. So, it seems to me like I I was just surprised because at
our previous meeting um this was not the this was not the discussion. Right. Yes. So, I wouldn't have been there in the spring. Right. Right. So, this would be so this I would say that represents the administration's
stance at this time. It's a neutral dance. Andy, you had your hand up. No, you don't want to. Okay. Not anymore, sir. Okay. Um, I would I think it's something that
Well, we can talk about it offline. I think that there's there's maybe we're on record as being interested in it and it sounds like things have changed. So, maybe there's a little more subtlety to some of how this is framed. Um,
okay, keep going. Jesse, for is a quarterly frequency more attainable than a monthly one? Um, what was that referring to? Was it referring to the report or the meeting of the team in the prior message? I didn't understand what that was about. The staff seems to have taken it as in
preparation for the quarterly report. But I was confused because if you scroll up a little bit more, Bella, they'll see how it says please outline the process for these review meetings. It seemed to me it was talking about the the internal staff meetings, but those
are already happening monthly. at least monthly. Yeah, I I believe may maybe the bullet ref the bullets were moved to the left as if they're like separate questions. I think these are all underneath something higher up, but I think the intent was um
Susan comes before the full school committee once a quarter with financial updates on about the budget. And I thought this was the question about whether that could be um produced monthly the financial report and I think Susan
had mentioned given the amount of effort it takes and the work the work that it takes to put it together and waiting for things to post and things like that I think quarterly would be more accurate. I see. So you're saying that one actually belongs to the one below. If you scroll down a little bit, Bella, um,
monthly report to school committee. You're saying that is bimonthly more appointment is quarterly frequency more attainable actually belongs to the next question. It maybe I'd have to look at the original document again yet. Maybe. Okay. You're right. It doesn't relate to one of them.
Okay. I would just highlight too that this document says PSB has placed quarterly reports. That's not a new practice. So, but this reads as if it's new. And I really want us to be clear to the committee that we are already having quarterly financial reports and um so I
would just make sure that that one is emphasizing this is a long-standing practice. Yeah. Yeah. I had flagged that too. Thank you. Yeah. It should just be a fact meaning rather than a like a new proposal.
Exactly. Exactly. Um, if there's no more comments, we can keep going. So on that one, um I I guess I was confused um and should have put the link in there. Mariah, if
you just Google Desi report grants Massachusetts, poof, that the Excel spreadsheet pops out and you can subset the Brookline part out. I sent it to Susan at 5 to 5, 5 to 4, so she has it. That's where the 4292991
is for, you know, FY24. So, it's uh that part's, you know, easily accessible. Um, we just didn't know what it was, right? But no one asked me either. No one asked any of us if it went to Bernard. It didn't get I'm sorry. I I asked Bernard because I
thought I asked Bernard. to ID in um no in fact the only reason you got the questions Bella at all was because I took the final document and rather than having it come from me in school committee ERSC I sent it to Bernard as the chair to then send to you so that
was that so that there was like a official from the head committee to the head of the district you know sure I didn't know that um because it came to me from Bernard so I didn't know that's how it happened right that we wanted to do it the appropriate method and not just have a member of the expansion revenues shoot
you the questions. Well, now the good news is this is why we're doing this process so that we have some right. So I mean this is needed. Yeah. In in this regard um Bella, so Susan has the report now in her inbox and perhaps a little bit of analysis of
that report may give you an opportunity to uh to give the team an opportunity to respond to this question. I believe the data actually is already given elsewhere in this report because really the expenditures for out of district I think are basically going to be in circuit breaker if that's within those. So it's
probably pretty um straightforward. So you're saying they're asking for in district versus out of district, right? So both but I think it's actually already written elsewhere, but we can keep going. Yeah, sure. Um Tell me to tell me to slow down if you
want. I thought just that this information in this chart actually would be very helpful to move up towards the top in the larger discussion of special education, but we can take all that offline. It was a good it's a very helpful data point. Cool.
So um um yeah just up just slightly. So up yeah okay fine that that's fine where beep starts. So like 10 paragraphs up somewhere it said see below for the B budget documents and then it says here please provide the budget documents. Are they still lower down somewhere or is there a link in there that we missed or
something? There's there's um so it's all collected down here. So are those those it's it's all the financial information that was sought, right? I guess the question maybe from maybe someone else from expensure revenues might have a question about
this. In other words, a real budget document that shows you know here are our costs. Here are our our um you know expenses. Here are our revenues. Here's our net. Here's the staff cost. Here's you know the the entire like a budget. This is like disperate information here about B. But
um you're wanting a breakdown of not the not where the funds the revenue sources you want an actual breakdown of the expenses. Yeah, I think that's what I mean I don't want to speak on have the entire expenditure and revenue committee Mariah but I think that's what the
it's being requested members are requesting. Yes. Yes. And that's in the budget book, at least for budget, budgeted expenses. Um, so maybe that could be brought over into here. I mean, you know, that's one possibility.
[Music] Yeah, thanks for that clarification. I'm sorry, I'm also take writing down notes. Caroline, go ahead. Scroll down. Okay, Caroline, I think has a question. Wait one sec while she tells her.
I'm sorry, I'm sort of trying to keep up here. If I go um all the way back to like page um say six for example where there are um tables with enrollment numbers. Are
those from last school year or this school year? You're talking about the one that's below the one with the blue header right there. example just because I'm looking on page six where there's a grand total and I think that was
Yeah, those two tables match in the summary. So, you're asking if that's numbers for this school year or last school year. Correct. Yeah, I had the same question, too. I wasn't sure where these which year these numbers refer to.
I have to ask the team to respond. I I'm not sure on the upper table. The lower table is um early September numbers 2020. They match. So match. Yeah. I I'm saying I don't know the special education information like
they match. So if your lower numbers are are September, the last line in the upper table came from the information I shared on the September numbers. Karen would have to answer where the um special education
data what what date that is from. I'm Oh, I see. This generally speaking, generally wait, Caroline, Karen's going to answer. Um the special education numbers are current. Okay. I think it would be helpful then just to have another column or something that
that dates this so that other readers know row and for the the blue table. That would be Let's go back to page 13. Yes. Sorry. Thank you. I'm not done. So, thank you, Karen. And then, so Susan, you're saying also the
lower table with the blue band on top on page six, those are current numbers as you have them. Not current, but early September. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Okay. So, I'm going to 13. Yeah, I think that's where we were. Yes. Keep going. Okay. Are are um can you just back up a half a page please? So in in this section here
the cost supported by the grant there is no cost number provided though right this is grant per pupil money spent per pupil from the grant but are there costs what other costs are supported by the
grant is that answered in this answer I mean is it is it reflected there it's it's in this paragraph so for example Well, the second sentence, METCO salaries and transportation is the cost. Yes. Okay.
And the literacy specialist and the math specialist, etc. Y Great. I I think it's a complete list of the categories and and that tracks back to the METGO grant like the that's in the um budget book.
Yes. Okay, great. Thanks. Okay. One thing that might be helpful is if you want to flag um I know this question doesn't necessarily address this, but the size of the MECO special education supplement grant um and any prior year funding that
we've gotten from that. I don't I think there was a question that was specifically MECO and special education and maybe flagging that that is the size of like I want to say it's 400,000 for the entire state um and applications we made might be helpful. Okay. I think that data is pretty
readily available. Thank you. Very readily available. Yeah. Should I keep going? Please. Thank you. So, oh, okay. Are the for the blue that just went off the top there? Yeah, that one the annual expenses incurred these
23 24 and 25 numbers. It just says we're not going to answer it at this moment. We don't have we don't have the like the capacity to dig out those numbers. Is that correct? This is the same question we talked about extensively earlier. Okay. Yeah.
Those are generalized services that are listed. Student services is beyond special ed. Correct. By guidance. Yeah, sure. Um, may I make a comment on this one about the comparable programs? more
districts were contacted. Not everyone responded. So if it feels but I think many districts don't charge for the material don't charge for this um I don't know the privilege. [Music]
Well it's a real benefit actually. Right. It's a great retention tool. It is. Yeah. So most districts actually don't charge for it. I think that the additional context you might you just provided a that you reached out to more and b that it's a retention tool might
be valuable addition information to actually include in writing. Oh I agree Mariah I was going to say just that. What page is it on? I just want to make the note. Um what page? Oh great. Susan, you're taking notes.
17. Is there sorry I'll raise my hand and sorry because I didn't get this far and I'm trying to speed through. Is there anything in here with respect to materials fee that sort of sort of
addresses um how we set the fee like what the fee um supports? Yes, it's uh above. I believe it says that it supports um
there was somewhere here where it says that it pays for some staff position. I believe it's right underneath the where the tuition numbers I provided are enough eight teacher salaries. Yeah. And the amount of money that it offsets in our budget right now.
So the materials fe funded eight teacher salaries. Okay. Thank you. What I actually meant was and maybe this is in writing somewhere in policy but what how the set is how the fee is set like
because we know that you know it's called the materials fee. So we assume x number of dollars is spent by the district on materials per student or just where does the what does the fee
represent? kind of addressed elsewhere um where it just said that it started out at $300 way back when and then it basically it's been our practice every year to raise it by 2 or 3%. It's not like we go back and look at how much is the cost of paper this year. It's just sort of like any other fee goes through
finance and we typically raise it by 2 to 3% right there. To be fair, I did an analysis of costs and the school committee did not. Right. But we didn't end up acting on your analysis, but rather more. I'm just saying you're right that actually what happens is but someone has
done an analysis and it just was not accepted. Is it okay? There's nothing in our policy that I thought that there was some description of sort of how it's calculated. No, we set the
fees. We set the fees every year for everything. And it's I don't want to I don't love this word, but so it sounds like what you're saying is other than it being sort of raised by some increment, it's sort of arbitrary in terms of what
you're paying for. I actually well the analysis I don't like waste too much time on this, but the analysis showed it's actually pretty close to the non-salary costs historically. So, it's um until very recently during COVID years, it was actually pretty spot-on.
And I would say it probably still is, but I have not updated my analysis since I did it three years ago or two years ago. And and um Mariah, we did I see upstairs it was like 40 students or something or is it I did I not remember that
40 upstairs? You mean at the beginning of the document? Yeah, I think it's like 40 on this right over Yeah, it didn't say 40. 40 has students in special education I believe from materials. Yes. Oh, so there many more that are Oh. Oh. How many require in district sped? Okay.
But to support a teachers got to have a lot many more children and uh you know material feed. Okay. Got it. Remember it's not just teachers eligible for the material feed application. Yeah. Staff as well, but town staff as well.
Town staff as well. Town staff as well. Not just school staff. Right. So, it it's it's a retention tool across the board for this one. Um, this is the revenue. I just think you
should be clear that this is the revenue and expenses to the account, not necessarily the all expenses that are um yep that are applied to summer that are relevant to summer programs and extended days. So, I just think that this is not
it's not necessarily presented clearly. These are just the charged expenses. You have that, Susan? Yep. Okay. And is it is it correct when I looked at this earlier that they flipped in 25 and estimated for 26 in terms of revenue
being more than expenses? That's correct. Right. In other words, that it switched 22 34 uh expense expenses were lower. We were making Well, no, I guess it even in 23 there was a huge disparity between the expenses and the revenue. I see. Okay.
And and some of the issue there is just um when the um uh revenue was collected. So there was revenue collected in 24 that was attributable to 20 uh 25 that was u attributable to 24 and 23 because nobody followed up on the billing from
those years. So that we've gone through this process of of trying to collect uh prior uh receipts from some of our renters. also on the expense side because there was a balance that had accumulated. You can see the revenue in 22 was higher
than the expense that had been true um in other years. It had accumulated a balance and in 23 the year before I arrived um that fund balance was uh spent out um when the uh 452,915
was charged against that fund. So when we started in 24 when I started there was uh appreciably no money in that revolving fund. I think it would be helpful too to make it clear that it is a revolving fund. It's not that this is running into
deficit in yours where expenses exceed um revenue. Go ahead, Donna. Wait, am I muted? No, I'm not. Okay. Sorry, I'm on my phone and I can't see the all the buttons. Um, uh, I was just gonna ask, uh, at some
point, Mariah, if you can share that analysis with me offline, I'd be interested in that. Sure. It's posted on the, um, materials page of the Oh, awesome. Yeah. So, it's even public. It's not like I have to share something private. It's public from a couple years ago. Um
I think it might be helpful too. Um the revenues program like the revenue the question here on school facility rent rental revenue does not necessarily answer the question because it's asking about allocating. Um and I think you need to make clear
like that it's not allocated. It goes to PSB for the building use. Yep. Okay. Um, and I also think that, um, I think you talk about this. They didn't ask this, but you talk about wreck, which I
thought was really helpful to contextualize building use. Um, or I thought you did, but now I don't know. I'm looking. It was somewhere. And it was really helpful, but I almost think like it belongs here, too. or a
reference like hey look at this information about like building as long as we have this arrangement with wreck which is you know supportive of town activities it doesn't mean that the buildings are completely free they are quite busy at zero rent so that's important to note
I think I might have done that under building utilization but it it was it was somewhere yeah yeah it was tough you know it's when it's not your questions and you're trying to translate it in the way that um we understand it and know it in visceral way. Sometimes the it's it's
difficult to um where to place certain content to answer their question but not you know go down a rabbit hole that people would find irrelevant. So, I felt it was important. Um, it's down at the It's down at the end though, Susan, where we're talking about
like additional things 22 23 page 23. So, if we if the if the rec department has the, you know, sort of first call on the spaces, then if we're doing that in an efficient way, then we're we are able to offer the spaces to aid users that
want to rent it. And um I think that that is something that we we need to show that we're we're trying to do in order to bring in revenue. Um yes. Can you go back up Bella to 17? And Donna, is that an old hand up or a new hand up?
No. No, that's a new hand about page 18. Uh 18. Sorry. Go ahead. Um um Susan, are there expenses that are reflected in that expense column that we would be incurring whether or not
extended day and summer programs were running? Um or might there be? I mean, I know that like is Yeah. Well, we allocate out. So, let me make sure I understand your question. The question is, if we were not renting
our buildings out or using them for anything beyond the schools, would we still incur these expenses? Is that asking? Yes. Or if Right. If it Right. Exactly. Yeah. So, um, or some of these expenses. I know it's
to the best of your ability. Yeah. I perhaps a small portion of the custodial cost, but for the most part, the overtime we're charging 150,000. Our overtime expense is 270. So, it's not
all of our overtime. The overtime would happen after, you know, school hours or standard hours of operation. And so we were just trying to um attribute the expenses as you know um closely as we
could to what those costs are. I I don't know if we don't use our schools at all for wreck or anybody else. It would be hard for me to say off the top of my head exactly what our uh staffing profile would be and expenses for just school purposes, but I feel it's
reasonable to say two. Um and uh at least 150,000 in the overtime. Okay, got it. Thank you. Um did I go? Where do you want me to go? Mariah, hang on one second. I want you to stay here. I just want to say that really when I look at this the information
that's provided here does actually belong more in the building usage because this revenue does not is not generated from ex is partially generated from extended days but it is not fully generated from extended days and the expenses do not um as Susan's pointing
out they're not fully attributable to that either. So I don't I think the answer to this question is really that we don't have necessarily a strict analysis of extended day and summer program costs only. Right? As it relates to the opening
statement, these programs utilize school property. That's what I'm saying. It's really hard to unpack when you're you're trying to answer the question exactly what the nature of the question is. I didn't find connection on some of these in but I think that the section on building utilization this content um is really
like a preface to the building utilization um conversation. So I think it needs to be clear like the implication is that this revenue and these expenses are attributable there because that's the question they're saying the cost associated but we don't have the information on the cost associated with extended day and summer
programs. like there's a much more nuanced conversation that needs to happen and and um and again the facility rental revenue. It's like not related to those programs necessarily. It's related to the building to the revolving fund, but
that has nothing to do with it has only partially to do with extended day and almost nothing to do with nothing to do with summer programs, which is why it was confusing. And most summer programs we're not charging anything for except for a little bit at the BHS. That's why I'm saying it's when the author of the question is writing,
they have something on their mind, but we're not privy to what what they mean by what they're saying. So, it it is subject to um I mean, I have some ideas for how to adjust this too that I think would make it a little clearer again because you have a compelling
narrative. You've just divided it up into ways to try to answer it, but I don't think it it was hard. Yeah, it was hard. Exactly. It was hard. Let's keep um let's keep going. for these ones. Do you want to I don't you probably don't, but like there is
the old data um that was public during our last negotiations, but it's kind of irrelevant at this point. Yeah, I think so much has changed. We did compile a sort of spreadsheet in 2022 when we last engaged in collective bargaining with the BEu, at least for the first question, the steps and lanes.
um not so much not so complete for contractual requirements. Um but I think it would probably be misleading to put it in just because we have a new contract almost everyone else does too. So yeah, we're going to be doing that that work again of course this coming year as we
prepare for another round of collective bargaining, right? Couple of months. Yep. To that end, I was just going to say I I don't remember um if it's in this section, but it might be useful to mention when the current contracts
expire and when we're when we go into a new um yeah, that might be exactly helpful to say because we're going into negotiations like that the that hasn't been happened yet. But yep, we can add that. Okay.
And again, I think some of that other information might be nice as a preface to this section. It's not necessarily answering their questions exactly, but it's in the right section here. you have data Farah's point showing room utilization not the classroom analysis
that I think you have here where you said some classrooms were available but for example percentage of the day that spaces are used I don't know if you're if the system used to reserve um rooms allows for that
but here it says um analysis on room utilization I'm just curious whether we can say to Sarah's point that like I'm making it up, but from 2 3:00, so let's say 3 to 8:00 p.m. in the afternoon,
um, we use x% of of space and, you know, of that half of it is wreck and half of it is not and the other half is paid. Do we have any data on that or no? I don't really. And and you know, to Pella's point earlier, when we read the preamble, it was asking us not to create
data we don't have. Yeah. Yeah. Rather to provide information that we did. So it's not that you know uh none of this can be done. It's a it's it's a time um commitment and to Bella's point the the real work is in projections getting
ready for contract negotiations and being able to do some comp information look at efficiencies and that is really where um our work lies. So, we didn't um as much as I could and with what information I had, I tried to be as thorough as I could, providing as much
data as I as I had um available to me without having to go in and take any um uh to create um new analysis for this response. So, the um so do you have even like anecdata? Is there a sense I guess m
like could you or Joe come up with a sense of whether there is still time that could be scheduled in buildings or are we close to sort of natural capacity? Obviously no one ever hits 100% but if a building I don't know what a building is maxed out at 80% or like what's considered highly efficient. Do
we have any sense of that or no? I don't I don't have I I don't even want to throw out some thoughts. And the other thing too, Mariah, is is in with our internal conversations around uh the rec department's desire to use our
facilities um in a more substantive way. Uh I don't know what that's going to look like in in the in the end, right? The town seems to have a higher need than we're we're fulfilling now. And um there
is some thought that between school and recck department that it could push out some of our ability to to um rent space out to other parties because they would want more prime time and you know the same prime time that a
renter might want. And so I'm not really sure how that's all going to play out. That's the sense I can say that's the sense that I have after talking to um you know Hal and uh and uh the coordinators and and all staff that are
involved in um you know um kind of managing our space and using our space internally and and uh the partnerships that we have currently. Understood. Donna, you're on mute, Donna. Yeah, I know. I'm trying to find the
stupid mute button on my phone. Um, oh, I wanted to say about that specific question, the one about building occupancy or I can't remember exactly how it was phrased, but um it reminds me of conversations that were happening during campaign season around
um like the percentage of classrooms that were unused in particular buildings. So, I don't know if that's sort of what they were what they were getting at, but I if that is the conversation that is echoing in people's heads and that's what
precipitated that particular question. And I know it's hard for us to know that, but I think we could we we maybe should meet it more head-on. I don't know how, but I think that I think that the problem is that the questions were pulled apart because they were talking about after
school use and during school use. They're not realizing that actually it's a more complicated question, which is why I think we can adjust the writing a little bit to reflect that the actual question asked is really about after school use during school use.
Got it. So, yeah. Um, and I think that's the other hard part because after school, we use our schools after the standard school day for school purp and people think that school is let's say from 8 to 3 or whatever the right
hours are, right? But we have all kinds of programming after school that's that's you know co-curricular or athletic um and other such programming. So um it it's really hard to define what's school versus non-school. But I don't think even the question is school
versus non-school. It's used versus unused. So, right. And so if it's if it's used, it's used for a public good or it's used for a re revenue generating private good. Like those are the two. Um and either way, people say those are both acceptable
uses, but that like unused or or unu less used than it could be. Obviously understanding that there's some level of like normal amount of not used. um due to transition times and whatever. Um but I think it's I think this is a helpful
conversation and and the content is here or you've just articulated some of it. So that's really great. Right. So Mariah with the the framing that you just gave I think maybe um actually I'll talk to you about it offline because I'm wondering if if we can answer the
question and well we'll talk later. I have to I have to get what's in my head. on that on that question. Um, Don, I I was going I was thinking if the regular person not only on our um expendure and revenue
committee, but off the street, you know, parents or whatever that say, oh, there's so many open class, you know, so many empty classrooms we're not using. I see that answer on the top of that the prior page. Yeah. Uh, that one. Yes, except uh you're right there. Yes, except for the six classrooms at
Driscoll. That's the answer to the question, right? During the day when class is in session, if you go to Lawrence, there are no empty classrooms whatsoever. I mean, you know, everything's used every day. And you go right to every school, you'll only find Driscoll with six empty classrooms.
That's how I interpret that answer for the public. So obviously I think you know as Susan mentioned a after you know um 2:30 and after 1:30 or something on Fridays there you know the number of rooms being used goes way
down um and I think that's part of the challenge is to understand how potentially we could use that as a school department to increase revenue by increasing utilization of that open space. I think the other
yeah that I want to point out though is that there's this I think idea that we can raise revenue without raising expense. And so what we have found even with the recck department is that there's no supervision while people are using our space. So our
space and classrooms um and teachers complain about um their supplies and materials and equipment being used and damaged and then not available for school use on the next day. So if if we're going to become um a a center um
after school for community and private use then you almost have to have a whole management structure to support that. So yeah, it's not just and again I think it's helpful to talk about that too, right? It's not just raw. It's not just the gross revenue.
There's a significant associated expense and it's not just like keeping the lights on. It's really just like it's a large public building. It can't be just left empty and and unmanaged. It's it's also some very expensive school personnel, sometimes the principal
having to go answer the door. If the building was just closed and a parent shows up to try to find the sweatshirt that was forgotten during the day, the building is closed. But if the building has programs going on in it, then you know the public comes to the door and the you know principal or whoever has to
go answer the door. So there there's a lot of expenses. Yes. That you don't see. Um, I think I'm going to close the meeting at this point unless there's anyone who's desperate to say anything at this point and with um the offer to
adjust things a little bit if you want to send me the document and then you can have the last crack at it. But I have some ideas on it um that I think will work and then we can um do you want me to stop sharing? Sure, if you don't mind. And I just want to say thank you to you all because it's
so clear how much effort again how much effort went into this document. Um really really significant um content there. Donna, do you want the last word? Oh yes, thank you. I actually also wanted to say thank you um to Bella and
Susan and Karen and everybody else who worked on that. I have to say that um before yesterday I think we received the document. I hadn't looked at the questions. Um, and when I did look at them, I had some of the same reactions.
And and this isn't this is not meant to be a dig or anything negative about the people who put the questions together, but it they they are hard to answer because um it's there's not a a clear understanding of like school operations
or certain functions of the school. And so, um, I think that I think that added extra angst and extra I don't know what the word is, but I guess my point is just to say thank you because I can see where it was difficult.
Bella, go ahead. Now you get the last word. The last last word. Okay. Um, again, I thank the team and I want to remind everyone that that um three of the four corners are interim. None of us have been through this cycle
and so Susan remains the anchor. And so while we while we tap into her capacity on this, we're not able to tap into her capacity for other things about moving forward. Um, I want to remind everyone too that
at the central office level, we're working with fewer staff and we are doing our um working hard to keep the standards high, be responsive, give quality answers, give accurate answers, but we are working with fewer staff and
so Diane Johnson left us. Um, sorry. Did no longer um Why don't we let Bella finish and you can
Yeah. So, um anyway, I just I just appreciate your support, but also we're we are um we're we're trying to do the best we can and I appreciate what everyone is doing and
we do really want to be able to move forward. Yeah. Thank you. Sounds good. Thanks, Mariah. Thanks everybody. Have a good weekend. Hold on. Yeah.
Would someone just in terms of staff I haven't been I don't think it's inappropriate to ask in terms of staffing that school committee sort of liazes with is is Dian's position. Actually I think that is a personal
question not for the for this agenda. Oh okay. I just was wondering why we weren't seeing her. Thank you. Thanks everybody. Have a good afternoon. Bye bye.