Okay, we're recording. Okay, here we go. Carolyn, did you get a chance to look at the documents that Betsy had sent us? Yeah. Um, what are you thinking about where to go from here?
Um, sorry. Let me Well, I mean Oh, there there's Sarah. Okay. Yeah, we'll wait a sec for her, I guess. Uh, let me make I need to make her a co-host. One moment. Okay. So, she can speak.
Hi, Sarah. Hi. Sorry about that. I I was actually on the phone with Suzanne. Oh, and didn't see the time go by. No worries. Um, welcome. We were just starting. So, I I had just said to Carolyn, "What are you thinking about the documents?" And she was gonna talk and then you came on, so we're
waiting for you. So, I mean, we kind of um Would you like me to share it? Anybody? Does that help or not? No, I have them open, but I have them open, too. Okay. If an audience member joins, maybe we could turn them on. Okay. Sarah, you have them handy, too, right?
Um, let me go get them. Okay. I guess I would sort of roll back to Mariah. Were you in this group last year? Okay. Sorry. it was such it I think of it as sort of like a nebulous kind of as
needed sort of group. Um but that's how it just seemed last year. So there's the roles and norms and then the communication and engagement norms. Um,
so in terms of I don't know. I'll start with I'll start with the proposed school committee communications and engagement norms because that's what I have open. But um you know I generally speaking my my
thoughts on these documents is I I find them slightly perplexing. Not all of it, but some of it is just um I don't quite um I'm not really clear on sort of what
the genesis is or what anybody ever felt a need was um for like conduct of meetings, public comment that's in our policy. um like I kind of assume collegiality
and that sort of you know we're all grown-ups and we'll treat each other as colleagues. So I'm not even really sure what the genesis of this is or what anybody felt would it be helpful if I I don't I can't answer the one about the school committee norms but the communication
norms were um well I actually can answer it but let me start with the communication ones. So before Um, I joined school committee. I often found that I would write school committee and no one would write back.
And it was frustrating to feel like you might be speaking to people and there was never a response, right? And so when I and Andy and I can't remember there were some other people who were really interested in like how do we make it so
that when people um so that we're making our our communications a little bit more intentional and proactive. Now the document that you see that is the one that's um proposed us see communications and engagement norms. Yeah,
Stephen modified it quite a bit if I recall unilaterally. um not like it's not completely dissimilar, but I think there was like some more sort of explanation about some of this stuff at some point and it and it melted away a little bit,
but part of it was um because I don't think it even includes like the calendar now. Um, oh no, it's sort of in there in like the 3B one and two, but really it was like everyone can
like so that if the member of the public writes to us that like they're guaranteed to get at least one response. Everyone can feel free to write two, but like they'll at least get one response so they know that their message was received. Betsy's already elevated that too because when they write into the school committee
address, she acknowledges their email too, right? She usually will say to them like, "Thanks so much for writing. Your email has been forwarded." Blah blah blah blah blah. So that often already at least has people getting a response from Betsy. And then someone each week is supposed to be on whether they do their job or not.
It's hard for any of us to know, right? But like at least we feel like, oh well, if I'm busy one week, I don't have to feel like I'm obligated to write back to all of them because there should be someone who's writing back to all the messages they get. And there's like an escape hatch in here. like what happens
if you get like 50 messages in one week and you can't deal like right there's ways to reach out to other people and ask to share the burden which we've done in prior like last year I think we had a couple of times when we had very heavy email traffic and people asked for help and and so really it was about how do we
improve the email communication in and then how do we really be more proactive and intentional about going out to the community. Um, and so you see some of that in like section, I think it's like two, like proactive. So it's like thinking about attending community
meetings like the PTO, seniors, right? Like school signature events. Um, school committee members as you see in 2D, they're encouraged to initiate and hold sessions and then as you see in D1 in and then they're requested to inform and invite the remainder of the committee.
So those are the kinds of things that like we really wanted to sort of be more present and be more responsive and that's what the genesis of this was was to share this. Now the other thing of it is people often write to us when we're when it's an operational issue. And so that's
why in that document there was this whole section about it's on page four I think or three sorry like who's the person who should handle um like the staff member and the school committee member. So, if it's like sometimes if it's like a school committee issue about
curriculum, you might say, "I don't know." Even if you're the person on that week, I don't know, but let me CC my colleague Suzanne who's the chair of curriculum or or whoever might be that person. Or if it's really a staff thing, like maybe you just send it straight over to Robin or maybe you CC them both. Like, but that basically we don't try
and necessarily we don't feel like we have to cover every single thing that comes at us. We can just pass it off to people whose expertise might be better at responding to the question. Sure. And I do want to speak to that if I can, but did you want to say something first, Caroline?
Nope. Does that help Caroline sort of understand the the background for that document? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, my observation is that we're having trouble with that that the part that you just talked about. Um, and you know, I I think about it as like say, so um, for example, we just
had Jesse and Donna go out to Oh, this is a recorded meeting, huh? Yeah. Okay. Um, so we just had an we just had an issue where um I thought that school committee members elevated issues to um the the
level of uh the school committee that were operational issues that would usually take place in a communication with the the principal. And when I thought about that, I thought that especially at a school where a principal is new to come on to, that could be really intimidating and really kind of
getting us involved at a level that a principal doesn't um want to go to, you know, right away. And so I see these norms as important because we we do have to make sure that as people come on to the school committee, they understand
what is under their purview and what is something that's better left to management. Well, but I I saw that email. It's a little bit different. I saw that Jesse. Can you guys tell me what you're talking about? Jesse sent us an email this morning saying, "Here are the questions brought
up at the F FRRPO meeting." Oh. And Donna wrote back and said, "Thank you." All Jesse said was, "These were the questions people brought up." So, and so, sorry Sarah, is that what you're talking about? Yes. And why is that problematic? Well, and I'm saying I don't see it as
problematic because we don't know if he said if I don't know what he how they responded if they said these are things like you should talk to the building leader about them to me. I don't know that he to me he wasn't elevating them to the school committee to talk about. He was just letting us know what had come out of people's mouths at the
meeting. Yeah, it was a report. Yeah, that's how I interpret it. So, I'm not report on the parent leader meeting this. That's funny because I I see that completely differently. If I were a principal, not even just a new principal, if I were a principal and there were issues that were reported to
the school committee before there was kind of like a chance to the for the principal to deal with the management side, that would be a a real tough thing for me as a principal. But most of these things aren't building issues. Like ICE procedures and support, what is the district's plan? That's not
a building issue. Like restoring OEE, what is the like what is the plan? world language expansion. To me, the like to me it was a mix. You're right. Some of them are very specifically building questions, but not all of them are. I don't I didn't see it necessarily as a complaint. And for all I know, Principal
Yuen was there. Yeah. I And I'm not speaking for her. I'm just I'm just saying that in in the way that schools operate to elevate something to the school committee um level that quickly would would as a
school leader would really really bother me. It's like minutes from a meeting. We're if we're going to have community meetings, people are going to speak and like I would expect school committee members I mean not expect but I think it's great to report back. Here's what
people are talking about. I have a completely different understanding of it. My understanding of what we get involved with is governance. He's not asking us to get involved. He's reporting what people talked about. It was like minutes. That's how I interpreted it too. Not
like Nobody at first I interpreted it the way you did and then I looked at it and said it just says questions that came up and so I took a different read of it my second time through. I mean that's like there's nothing in there where anybody is asked to do
anything. So if that's what you mean by elevate well I don't know what you mean by elevate. Yeah, I mean I I mean that it's if it's not under our purview, if it's not governance, I feel that that conversation is between the parents and
the principal. And I I I just know maybe not that particular principal, but if I were in that situation, that would not that would not fly well with me. But what's the point of school committee going to a PTO meeting for example
if like like I guess my question is why should they be there at all if there's supposed to be no interaction between the parents not supposed to be no interaction but you know um for schools committee to report on how we're working through um you know the leadup to a potential
override that seems to me um is world sorry about that I've got a very excited dog next to Here, I'll put it in a crate. Um, for for um issues that that go to that are about governance, I I completely understand
the school committee's interactions with with parents. I am surprised by and don't understand um school committee inserting themselves into the the conversations that really should be between the principal and the inserting themselves. This was reported
to them. I just thought he was basically writing down the questions that came up and just like basically these are the things that people asked questions about it all. Not that they were saying school committee get involved or anything else. Now I will say I had a different take on the email we got from a parent.
Um I won't get into the like that was also relating to that visit. Um but but I think that like this list was just a list of questions. Let me take it like not to get too much into the weeds but are you saying go back to this? Sarah, like are you saying that there is something in the in that do in the
communication norms like that would say that Jesse shouldn't write those kinds of emails or like what's your what was your intent in bringing up that specific email? The way that I read the the norms is that I I think that what we do when
we go out to the school committee to the PTO's is that um we talk about the things that are under our purview in order to update people. People talk to us about the things that rise to the level of school committee issues and
that's what we engage on. And I'm worried if we engage on management issues that it looks like we're taking that back to like okay you you can expect an answer to this you know by next week you know or or something to be done on it.
I think it is worth perhaps clarifying that when people go to these things they can say like I'll ask about things but they shouldn't to your point sort of say like I'll get you the answer or whatever right like or you can as you say you can expect an answer by next week. I mean,
it's no different than receiving an email. We can't control what people email us about. But you but but Sarah's point is you can control what your responses. If you say, "Right, I'll get you an answer on that by the end of daytoday." You're presuming theoretically
and I mean I don't I'm not super comfortable sort of picking apart Jesse's right. I'm divorcing this from Jesse's email. Yeah. And I guess I didn't see back to generally speaking like I approach school committee
from a collegial perspective. I assume and hope that everybody does that everybody's a grown-up. Everybody's coming in with good intentions. Um, and so some of this like I would I would
tend towards sort of less attempt by documents to sort of um really control um people's um speech and actions and I
think sort of general guidelines are helpful Um and sort of where to take things is helpful. Um I mean you know
if we have to have a document that says when someone calls a a colleague they call them back then we have a bigger problem than trying to finalize this document. Like my agree we have a big problem.
Call a colleague they call me back. Caroline, I would disagree with um I think that it is helpful to have norms. It is helpful to write things down. I think that some things that are implicit in one person's mind are not in another person's mind. And so I think having
a document that points to shared expectations is actually really helpful. Um, and so even if just because like some of this document has things like do this specific thing and if no one ever tells you to do that specific thing then
you're sort of at a loss, right? So just having like a list of these are the things we do is helpful even if it's not all about behavior. Um, and I think that you're probably right that some of the bits about like and I don't know exactly
where this is. I think it's in the October 24 document. Um I don't know exactly. You were pointing to somewhere about collegiality. I'm not sure where that is in here. I don't know if that's in there. That's just kind of my that's a word that I
like because I feel like it encompasses things that I um believe in in Okay. I was going to say like those kinds of words, one person's one person's colleial might not be another person's. if they're hard to define, it makes it more
tricky. Um, even if you you could say them and hope that people understand. I personally think it would be valuable to um there's a section of the handbook, I think it's section one, that's all about school committee, I'm pretty sure, and
like how we operate. You mean the policy? Yeah, the policy handbook. Exactly. that is all about school committee, but it in doesn't it includes some things and it doesn't include other things. And I wonder and and part of what Andy was going to do last year, which he didn't
do, was this governance handbook. And I wonder what you think about as a group taking section one and refreshing it and turning it almost into like a handbook that includes some sort of more practical norms, but also some of the
things that are already enshrined in policy. Um, and I'm just pulling up the policy. Are either one have have either one of you ever read section one? I'm just curious. Probably. I have in the past. Should we all go there now? Yeah. I'm just thinking it might be like and or maybe it's section B. There's
foundations and basic commitments is A and board governance and operations is B. Um, it might not be B. It might be A. I'm just trying to look back at like board governance is B. It's B. Okay. So, there's some of it
that's like um Do you want me to pull it up? Anybody? I don't want to be jumping in, but tell me if you want. No, I think it might be I have it up. Yeah, I have it up, too. Do you have it up? Um I will in a sec. Okay, go ahead.
Anyway, I just sort of wonder like when you are a new It's sort of like how do you get a new school committee member up to speed? And when you're a new school committee member, it feels like or it felt like to me and you both have had different experiences. You joined at different times. It was really hard to
understand what was going on. And I'll give one example that I think has gotten better. When I first joined, every single meeting we had that was a school committee meeting, Robin would send us like a folder and it would have like um just like all the information for that
meeting and there would it would be like in a random place. And then I said like, Robin, can we just get one folder for the entire year and like, can you just put all these subfolders in there so we don't have to get like all these folders? And then Betsy built on that and now she has that school committee folder that has like some subfolders in
it. So, it's almost like rather than having all this information sort of splatted at you in different places and people are not necessarily like giving you all of it in one consolidated place, like could we be really giving this document that sort of is like a shared
understanding of like what school committee does and and what it doesn't do to sort of alluding to some of Sarah's earlier points and sort of like some of the key philosophical underpinnings of school committee so that we do all sort hopefully have a stronger shared understanding of what
we're up to without having to like look in a hundred places and that kind of thing. Do you feel that that the school policy manual does address the issues that you would like us to I think it addresses some of them like
the commenting practices I think is helpful for school committee members. Um I'm not buying that for you. No, you're not having that. No. No. Sorry. Um, I'm not buying that for you. No, we're not getting that because you already had
that on Thursday. Ouch. You get You did. Come on. I'm on a meeting. You did. I'll be right back. I'm sorry. One, do you mind if we keep on speaking? No. Go ahead. So, when at one point at one point you
were saying in um in how is that different than emails? I actually see this issue happening. How is what different than emails? How is it different that somebody um went to meet with PT PTO with a school committee member went to meet with PTO
um a PTO and took issues back? How is that different than somebody sending in an email? That had been your point. I was going That wasn't my point. Okay. What was your point? When we go and talk to people, we can't control what they say to us the same as
we can't control what people email to us. That's just what people talk about is what they're going to talk about. Exactly. So, what I think that we need to address is not only in how we respond to people during a PTO um meeting, we also have to have to address how we
respond to people who write in. And so there are norms that I had thought we had about us addressing things that are under our purview and not kind of implicitly saying that we were going to address things that aren't under our
purview by you responding to somebody and saying, "Oh, I understand how hard that is or that you frustrated by that." And getting back to them about it. So I do think that the communication needs to be something that the nine of us understands together.
So, um, sorry, jumping back. Okay, I hear what you're saying there. So, Mariah, you're now going to the policy manual, but I guess now I feel although I'm sure it's going to make sense to look at the policy manual, too, but we
started with this document, right? So I guess I'd say to you Mariah are there you you started by asking I just sort of what we thought is there in terms of the
proposed school committee communications and engagement norms are there things what's your feeling about this document as it stands are there things that you feel strongly need to be there that aren't or are and shouldn't be
well what I feel strongly about is what Andy was hoping to do last year was create that governance handbook and and we had talked about these communication norms and the the other document that was here um the
roles and norms and some of this other stuff all coming together into one document and it didn't happen but I really think I thought it was a good idea then and I still think it's a good idea and so what I would like to have is like can we get this going you know can we come up with something where
we um where maybe some of the like very structural like I don't know exactly what's in B but like some of the stuff that's really like you know we were founded due to MGL like you know some of that sort of very legalistic stuff stays where it is but some of the thing that
really has to do with school committee operation among themselves really comes out into this handbook. Um and I I just think it would be really beneficial. It's almost just like something small we can refer to as we're thinking about our norms. It's like the Robert's rules of
order except it's like school committee rules of order and it's like we do this and we do this and this is how we talk to each other and this is how we talk to the community and things like that. And some of it like just to add like Stephen very clearly was like this
should be the format of your signature on your email and maybe it shouldn't be like that specific but it should be like have a signature that like includes like your email address in case I don't or like have a signature that includes your phone number or it doesn't. It just says
you know you don't need to have that. I think that this is the kind of thing is like what do we care about and what do we not care about or do we want to say consider having a signature and here's one example. you know, there's like it's sort of some of the stuff is small and petty, but it really helps people in when they're communicating with you. Um,
but some people might care about it less. So, I guess it's really about like having people understand the options too of like what they might care about. Um, it might also be things like like operationalizing the calendar, the communications calendar a little bit
more cuz like when Steven went away, he was the one plugging in the dates and then I think we went a month or so without anyone um realizing that no one was responding. So, how do we like fix that kind of a thing? It's just I I think that we should sort of really be intentional in this and it might be nice
as more of a like the policy document is sort of meant to be very stable and this one I feel like could be a little bit more of a living document. Does that make sense? Yeah. What do you think Sarah?
Yeah. Um, and one example that I think of um that's like helpful here is like um the um having the like I said the the public comment policy is really helpful like
school committee relationship to superintendent, school committee relationship to staff like how when you talk to them, how you talk to them. I feel like um this is one of those things that I think is implicit and some school committee members think that they should
be able to talk to staff, some don't think so. Some staff think that school committees should be able to talk to them, some staff don't think so. So I feel like having this document where we all understand that this is the shared understanding would be really valuable. just like that kind of thing. It seems to be creating a lot of friction and how
do we make sure that we that we're all operating on the same shared set of assumptions. I mean, this is I'm this is this is really not going to be I mean, I'm I'm going to say this because it's responsive to what you literally just said and I'm not really sure sort of how
it fits into these questions of documents. M but one of the things that happens naturally is that whatever the rules or norms and shoulds and shouldn't
in practice as a matter of course there's not like there's just not going to be total consistency on that like you Mariah for example have total access to
staff at well I mean like you go to town hall you meet with Susan um like I've never I never meet with staff I because I'm finance chair right but like I've never met with Robin I've never met
with Karen in my role as school committee so like that's not a sort of I'm just saying that's not a criticism of you it's an observation of that in practice there are lots of good reasons. Um, but that could be like something people
are working on or like I and communication is good, right? Like collaboration is good if school committee and the superintendent and her staff are all going to be rowing in the same direction. So, I'm just sort of
putting out there that I guess that's where sometimes and I totally get and I'm on board with having these documents like I'm not I'm not opposed to these documents, but I also think guidance is
really really helpful. And then there's always going to be some variation for one reason or another. And and again, I think um it's incredibly important as a functional healthy committee um for us
all to give each other the benefit of the doubt in terms of our different relationships and different interactions um and that kind of thing. So I I think that's what I'm sort of getting at. you
know, we I we're never gonna like operate completely within the confines um of sort of every word on a page, but I do think but but I don't I'm not opposed to to guidelines
for sure, which is ultimately kind of what this is. And then in terms of having kind of what you're saying, did Andy start something like does he have a No, I asked him and he did not. Okay. I think life got the better of everybody
last year. Well, and that's the only other thing is like I mean, is it um is it aspirational or realistic? I don't I mean Sarah, I'd be curious
what you think, but I don't think it's aspirational to put something like this together because it's never going to be perfect, but if we start with something and we iterate, that's okay. What do you think, Sarah? Would you like me to take a try? Yeah, I think it's possible. Would you like me to take a a stab at
it? I could um make a draft for us and then we could discuss it. Sure, we'll be okay with that. Caroline, would you be okay with that? Sure. Yeah. especially thinking like if you're willing to sort of tease out which bits of policy you think should
come out of it into a handbook. So, um would you like me to start with the document that we started with and add to it or would you like me to write it as one section of a handbook that we don't
yet have that we might have in the future? I think we should I in my personal goal is that we have a handbook and that like communication norms and all of this is part of the handbook and that the
handbook might also say to people for example you might want to look at the MASC website PSB policy like it might sort of tip them off to like useful places in the world like for them because I don't think Betsy do we have any sort of like cheat sheet for on
onboarding new members. We don't, right? Um I I again only because I have it because Robin did it. Everything I do is basically based on what she did. Uh I do have an introductory email I send. I think the problem is I send it the next day, right, when they're brand new. And it has a lot of information that, you
know, probably doesn't make sense that first day and might make sense later. But now I'm so curious. Did I get that email from Robin? Probably my first day and I never even It's called welcome to the school committee. I think I even kept the subject line that she had. So,
I'm so intrigued. I'm going to go back in time to my very first email to see if and in the vein of that and I don't know if this sort of maybe it does fall under this. I don't know if it does. So, like I think it would probably be useful
if after um you know every June or July or August or whatever after an election assuming um that any new members join the school committee um that at least some part of
our next workshop would be dedicated to exactly this kind of topic. That was my hope and expectation of what was going to happen. When was our workshop? Early fall, late summer. Um, you know, was for
us for the a new group to talk as a new group of individuals um and talk about how they, you know, are are going to work healthily healthfully healthfully um work well as as a group of
individuals and and all of that kind of stuff. So, um I don't know, maybe that can be sort of a recommendation or something if people agree, but I think that was I think that's missing. And and even even if you
know there's if there's one or two or three new people even just kind of like going back through and you know talking about things that came up in the prior year or refining um in person in discussion I think would
be I think would be really useful. I do too. I agree that. So that's something that like it would be really helpful for again shared understanding of norms and and then if they need to be tweaked they get tweaked through that process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah, you know what might be helpful too is um I think that there are other school committee handbooks that exist and so it might be it might be helpful to go see what other school committees have and like snag theirs. I was taking that. Yeah.
Yeah. So, I I'm not right now offering to to write a full school committee handbook. I'm writing I'm offering to write the communication norms section for a future school committee handbook. Is that okay? Right. I'm going to write some notes down about that.
And then how would we sort of if Sarah drafted something? Mhm. Ultimately that would go as if this was this is called a group but as if it was a subcommittee it would ultimately go to
the full school committee for discussion. Correct. it um even though we are as you say a um a working group, we're still a subcommittee. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Um Mariah, does it come up that we might need um a leader or is does it does this work well for you that we're all three equal? I there seems to be some like impression
that I'm in charge of communications working group and I am not in charge of communications. No, I know that. Yeah, it is. It's not a subcommittee. There's no chair as far as I know. So, I am fine with our approach of the three of us. If either one of you I'm if someone wanted to be chair, I would be
happy to let them be chair like to vote for them to be chair, but I do not. This is fine for me too. I think this Caroline, are you at all interested in being a a chair of this? I just think it works this way. I don't I would agree with Mariah. I don't particularly see a need
for that. Um, so but the thing too I just want to go back um Sarah is while you might not want to write the whole handbook and that's okay. It can be something like understanding how other committees have it. We might choose to adopt a whole
section from another committee because we think it's well done, right? And and I don't even know what other sections like handbooks might just be about communication. So like that could be it, right? I'm not So I I'm very happy to bring forward to you a um a a short draft of a handbook
and then it's not me just writing it because of course the two of you will um you know weigh in and tell us what you think. So, okay. I'm very happy to bring forward a a handbook to the school committee. Thanks. I think that would be helpful.
Do we want to set a time frame like for our next meeting this time? When When do you think is reasonable? Do you want it like in a month? Do you think I can do four weeks? Yeah. That would be the third. Does that work
for you, Carolyn? Monday, November 3rd, 5:00 PM again. Sure. Betsy, is that okay? And things we don't know. That's open. The next day is election day. You know, the state election. Is there a state election this year?
Well, maybe not. Actually, there's no school on the 4th, right? Sorry, it is PD day. I always think of it as election day, but you know, if we're going to do five o'clock, um the third I have something that I'll be bumping up against and the 10th I don't. Would the 10th work
or the 27th? I don't. The 27th I can't do at 5:00. Um, so why don't we do the 10th if that works? Should work for me. Okay. So 5:00 p.m. on Monday the 10th.
Also, eve of no school. Mhm. November is such a fun month. There's like three days of school. Um I know I think that would be helpful, Sarah. Like that gives you plenty of time to just poke around. I might do a little
Googling, too, and see what else we find. I'm just in a meeting, honey. Grab some yogurt to start and then I'll make you some dinner. Um Oh, sorry. I I meant to click audio and I clicked video. Sorry.
That's okay. Um, okay. And I know there's only three of us here and Bob is here, too. Betsy, I think Bob can join, right? Because we don't I just want to like Does Bob want to add anything? Because he can, right? Because it would still only be four of us.
It's a bit of a jump call. I'm not exactly sure. We certainly will not have a school committee quorum. You're right. Yeah. So, I think it's okay. It's We couldn't have a quorum, but as long as we're four, we're fine. Bob, do you want to add anything? You can unmute yourself now. Hi guys.
Hi Bob. Hi. Hi. Do I want to add anything? No, this is it's interesting. I think I think the work that Sarah has agreed to um do checking out some of the handbooks on communication um would be a good idea. I think, you
know, anything that's formal that helps us behave, I like, you know, behave in a way that's helpful. Uh, so I'm, you know, I'm listening. I'm happy about what you're doing. And, uh, do I have any brilliant ideas? No.
Okay. Well, I like it. It's an endorsement. We'll keep going the way we're going. Thank you for inviting me in. Yeah. Okay. Thanks everybody. So, I guess we'll wrap up, right? We're done. We're done. Good to see everybody. Thank you. Appreciate it. Bye. Bye.