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one. Good evening. I'm Bernard Green, chair of the Brooklyn Select Board, and this is the meeting of the select board, regular meeting for September 30th, 2025. First item on the agenda is moving into
executive session. I move that the select board go into executive session for the purpose of discussing strategy related to a litigation matter and approving executive session minutes. The litigation matter must be discussed in executive session because an open
meeting may have a detrimental effect on the bargaining or litigation position of the town and the chair so declares therefore that an executive session is necessary. All in favor, please indicate by saying I. John Vanscoyak,
I. Paul Warren, I. Michael uh Rubenstein, I. And chair votes I. We will return after our executive session uh at approximately what do you have down? I've slated it for six. Six. Six. We'll see.
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one. Good evening. I'm Bernard Green, chair of the Brookline Select Board, and this is the regular meeting of the select board for September 30, 2025. Let's start off with announcements or updates from the select board. Michael, I understand you have something. Uh yes, I
have an announcement from the uh Brooklyn Public Health and Human Services Department. Uh Brookline Public Health and Human Services encourages all residents 6 months and older to get vaccinated for the fall respiratory season. The first flu clinic is this
Sunday, October 5th, from 9 to noon at Brookline High STEM Commons. Additional clinics will be held on October 16th at the Baker School and October 22nd at Ruffen Ridley, both from 4:30 to 6:30
p.m. Limited walk-ins and highdosese vaccines are available. Visit brooklinma.gov/ flu clinics to schedule or learn more. A homebound flu program is also offered.
Sign up through the same page. Please note that COVID 19 vaccine is not available through the town this year and you should check with your pharmacy or physician. Thank you. Very important u message. Any
other updates or comments from the SL John? Couple of them. Um, one of them I I apologize for the fact that I I don't feel like I'm totally in control of the details here, but um I think it's worth letting people know that uh the Brooklyn
Public Library is um has an opening in the position of director and uh that doesn't happen that often. And good for the library trustees. They are hoping to spread the word um about this opening so that um people who might not have heard
that there's this opening will and who have you know the requisite experience and um uh and all of the other attributes of of a person you know who would be a terrific future um leader for the Brooklyn Public Libraries. Um I I
hope people who get the word will um figure out for themselves. I'm sure it isn't too difficult um how to go about the process of uh learning more about the opening and and learning more about the process of applying um because um
the library trustees um uh very much want uh the this this to be widely known and so I'm going to do my part right now and just let everybody know about it. I'm sorry I don't have more specific information but uh I'm sure people will figure it out. The other thing that I do
have specific information for is a really uh important um upcoming event that is a great social event, but it's also for the most worthy of causes, and that is the Brooklyn Food Pantry, and they're having their annual um party for
the pantry. I love that name. Um and it is going to occur on Saturday, October 25th. But the important deadline to be thinking about is that they really do want people to RSVP by October 15th. So that's um you know a mere two weeks, you
know, and a day from now. So I I I hope people who have supported the food pantry in the past and those who maybe will be supporting the food pantry for the first time will um pay attention to the deadline and um order their tickets for this this coming October 25th party
for the pantry. Great. Thank you. Any other updates or announcements? Okay. Well, let's move on to public comment. Tiffany, let let people know what the rules are and let's proceed. Thank you for joining us for public
comment. This is an opportunity for us to hear your perspective on the issues in Brooklyn that matter to you. Each person speaking tonight is limited to three minutes. You don't need to use the entire time, but you may if you like. Once 15 minutes has been met, there's an opportunity at the conclusion of the select board's business for additional
comments. Members of the public sometimes raise questions during public comment. We may be able to provide a quick answer to a question, but are more likely to work with staff to get a more thorough answer and respond over email. The on-screen timer will flash orange when you have 30 seconds remaining and red when your time is nearly up. Please
conclude your remarks at that time. If you have more to say, you are welcome to send an email to board members expressing your thoughts in greater detail. Any person wishing to speak must begin their comment by identifying themselves with their full name and either their Brookline precinct number or street address. The first individual who signed up in advance is Carol
Spitzer. Hi uh Carol Spitzer. I'm uh in precinct 3 and I live on Baler Street. So, I'm here with some of my other fellow uh mothers
out front, which is a climate action group, as probably most of you know, and we are concerned about a development at 429 Harvard Street. the developer there uh was able to skirt the uh new tree bylaw because they came
in a little before the bylaw was officially passed and updated and working and they just cut down all the trees on the property and now they're asking for a waiver from complying with the tree bylaw this the rest the second
part of it. So there's another whole part that is about preservation of the trees that are near the site. I think there's a specific designation of 30 feet within the construction zone because what we've seen over and over
again is the trees that are, you know, along the property line or in the con near the construction zone are ruined by the construction and it's the neighbor's tree. It's not even on the site. So they've asked for this waiver and we just feel like given what they've
already done, they shouldn't there shouldn't be a reason why they should get a waiver from doing the rest of meeting the what's necessary for the tree bylaw. And in 2021, we had an urban forest climate
resiliency plan which showed us that we are losing more trees more quickly, way more quickly than we are planting trees. Every year we're losing like 700 trees, planting about 350. So situations like
this, you know, are a way that we can help not lose the trees we have. So we're just asking you to consider not to give them the waiver. Thank you very much. Thank you. That concludes the individuals who signed up in advance of
the meeting. If there's anyone else who wishes to speak during public comment at this time and online, please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature or if in the room, please make your presence known. All right, there are about 10 individuals in the room, 31 online, and no one else is indicating their desire
to speak. Okay, thank you Paul. Yeah, I just have a if it's okay, Bernard. Um I know this is not typically what we do with public comment, but I did have a question about that public comment. I received a phone call about this uh last weekend of this
past weekend. Um raising this concern that there was a waiver being seek, but there I didn't know if there was actually something filed, who would file it, who actually has authority. Do we know if there's been a waiver that's been I am unaware of this. That hasn't reached me yet, but I was just talking to the chair. I will reach out, get
information, and circle back to the board on that and lay out the timeline, who that goes to and all that. All that it would be really helpful to get some confirmation what's going on. Thank you. Okay, any other comments or questions? Okay, let's move on to um our
miscellaneous calendar. Uh first, the minutes for September 16, 2025. Any corrections to those minutes? I I believe I sent you. Okay. Any other corrections or edits? Okay. I move approval of the minutes for September
16, 2025 as amended. All in favor, please indicate by saying I. John Vancoyak. I. Paul Warren. I. David Pearlman. I. Michael Rubenstein. I. Chair votes. I. Next. Uh, we have items 6B through 6T.
I'd like to take items 6 C to 6T in omnibus fashion unless someone wants to take anything out for further discussion. And with respect to item 6B, the report of the PCAC, I'd like to take that out in case any of the select board
members would like to ask questions uh of um um Paul Ye, who I understand is uh uh online remotely. Yeah. uh on at the meeting uh and available for any questions. Um I mean it's an excellent report but it it
uh I think raises a lot of questions and I think it's important for the community to know about the PCAC and what they do. Uh it's a very important committee that is very very helpful to the select board with respect to uh uh police issues and
related issues. So um why why don't we u vote to approve 6 C to 6T and then talk about and then deal with the U PCAC item. Uh any other items you want to take out of order. Okay. I
move approval of item 6 C through 6T. Um all in favor please indicate by saying I. John Benoyak I. Paul Warren. Hi. David Pearlman. Hi. Michael Rubenstein. I chair votes I. Okay. Uh item 6B. Um it's
a report that has been presented to the select board. Uh it's an excellent report in my opinion. Um do do any select board members have anything to ask of Paul Ye who's the co-chair of the PCAC? Michael. Sure. Um first of all, I I'd like to
agree with the chair. It is an excellent report. Um, and it's very helpful to have both the committee and the report that they produce um to provide oversight and advice to the select board in uh our roles as police commissioners
for the town of Brooklyn. Um, I had some questions uh three questions specifically about the uh the information in the report and I will uh present those one at a time um to Mr. Ye. Thank you very much um for your
answers. Um the first has to do with the civilian feedback survey. Um I believe the report stated that there were 59 responses uh to that survey to date over a period of greater than four years. Um, and I'm
just trying to get a sense of the scale of the number of incidents that might possibly warrant a response as indicated by the uh, civilian feedback survey to determine whether like 59 is that a lot of responses relative to the amount of
interaction. Is it very few? Is it statistically significant? Um, good evening. My name is Paul Yei. I'm one of the two co-chairs of the PCAC. Um uh the answer to that question is the 50
um nine uh responses are from 2021 since started. So for this past year, so for uh when I say past year meaning uh the summer of 2024 to August of 2024, 2025, excuse me,
there's been six Mhm. six are in detail that that we set out, right? What I'm trying to understand is of all of the possible police interactions that could have occurred
that would generate civilian feedback, is this a large number or a small number? Are there thousands of interactions, tens of interactions, hundreds of interactions? I'm just trying to determine whether the data that we're getting, the positive responses and the negative responses are actually statistically significant
relative to the amount of police interaction we have or it's just ane fundamentally anecdotal. Um so the police interaction in my opinion would be anecdotal but yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um um this
this other two questions have to do with the responsibilities of the PCAC. You mentioned in your report a number of responsibilities that you have not yet undertaken but are are intending to undertake. Um were there specific
responsibilities of the PCAC over the next year that you intended to take up? Uh, one of the responsibilities we we've discussed is is um um having a person uh
being a resource person to a civilian complainant uh if he or she uh wishes to have one. Uh we've talked about perhaps somebody from the office of diversity or the police department uh who's not uh
directly a a police officer. Um and uh perhaps we should have more discussion on that. Um and falling back to what the the charge says and perhaps one of the members uh maybe on a rotating basis should should be that resource person to
a civilian complaint if he or she requested. Thank you. And my last question um is to the extent that your committee is requesting resources, there were a couple of references to requesting resources in the committee. Um through
which department would you be making those budget requests? Do you do you have a plan to to make those requests and get them integrated into uh the fiscal year 27 budget or future budgets? We have uh we have not
discussed that with with other members yet. Um and uh so after we discuss that then we'll we'll were will present it uh formally. Right. I I I would encourage you to work through the departments that are presenting their budgets in order for
them to um champion the resources that you're seeking to do your excellent work. Thank you. whether that's the police department or the office of diversity or other departments in the town and thank you very much.
Any other question, Paul? I don't have a question. I just a brief comment and thank you uh for for the report, Bernard. Um some committees come before us and they they present to us and I I I can't remember if the PCAC came to us and presented um in the past year. Uh but
they presented a year ago. It was a year ago person or was there a report? I believe last year it was just a written report as well. Yeah. Um I just I think that this um you know this is such an important advisory group to us. Um it might be helpful to have this be a next time be a presentation to
us for a full board kind of interaction or discussion versus just a filing a report and the consent agenda. Just a thought. I think it's it's really really important. That that's a good point. That's why as Paul Ye is up here so we can ask questions and sort of expose the
PCAC to the community so that people know you know what it does. I mean you know there are thousands of interactions between police and residents uh almost on a daily basis maybe not thousands daily but you know over a period of time. Uh and you know what the complaint process is intended to identify are
those interactions that um are problematic in various ways. It may just be the officer was rude uh or or not as friendly as he should be. It may be something more serious. And and the fact that we have a few just a
few complaints, I think reflects not only the um the quality of policing we have in this community, but also the town's proactive steps over many many years to turn our police department into the type of department that you know we
are very very proud of. Yes. Um I I would wholeheartedly agree. Um and uh I I also uh encourage that we have both a complaint process and we also have the civilian feedback survey
which has a range of different responses from negative to positive. And I was particularly interested in the whether the civilian feedback survey was itself uh mostly driven by people who had very strong reactions because most of the results there were uh extreme on one end
or the other either highly positive or highly negative. I'm just wondering if that's typical or as I imagine most interactions are relatively benign. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Thank you. Okay. Thank you uh Paul.
Thank you very much. Okay. Okay. We've u we should vote to accept the transmitt of that annual report. I I was looking for my language. Um I move uh not approval, but I move
acceptance of the report of the PCAC um as presented by um by the PCAC and Paul Ye. All in favor, please indicate by saying I. John Vancoyak. Hi Paul Warren. Hi David Bowman. Hi Michael Rubenstein. Hi chair votes. I
Okay. Main calendar first licensing question of approving the application for a change in corporate name from Mary's Caviar Boston LLC to MCB Gourmet doing business as Mary's Caviar Boston at 420
Harvard Street. Um, is there someone who's going to Yes. So, good good evening. I am remotely uh my name is Ifa Quitman. Uh, I'm one of the owners and managers of Maris Car
Boston. Um so currently we filed the we filed the application to change our corporate name which was which has been already changed uh with the secretary of state with the corporations division. Uh so we
want the correct name to be um to be reflected on our licenses. Okay. Any um any questions from the board? You also have that concurrent application for your change of Oh yes also there was a sorry we worked
for like uh two months and there was the feedback from our uh from our customers so that they would prefer the working hours to be not from 10 to 7 but rather from 11 to 8. So we just uh followed their feedback and uh wanted to and
decided to change the the working hours. Okay. Okay, so we have two items on the agenda. Any further questions? I would just say the reason why this is on the agenda, you usually don't hear these directly. They're usually heard by the licensing panel, but there was a scheduling issue with the applicant and we decided that in this instance out of
fairness because it was a minor application that they should they could be heard here. We'll be brief. Um, and so we've let them we asked them to come in and speak to you, but ordinarily. Thank you so much. Yeah. No, thank thank you. We appreciate your your business in the town. Was it a public hearing or This is not a public hearing. No.
Okay. Okay. Any other questions from the select board? Okay. I move approval of first question of uh approving the application for a change in corporate name uh from Marquis Caviar Boston LLC to MCB Gourmet LLC
doing business as Mary's Caviar Boston. And secondly, question of approving the application for a change of hours for Mary's Caviar Boston. um 10 um 10 am to 7 pm Monday through Sunday. Uh and 11:00
a.m. to 8:00 pm Monday through from 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. Monday through Sunday to the new hours 11:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Monday through Sunday. Uh all in favor, please indicate by saying I. John Vancoyak. I Paul Warren.
Hi. David Pearlman. Hi. Mike Rubenstein. I chair votes I. Next, grant of location. This is a public hearing and it relates to the hearing we had at our last meeting um with respect to the MBTA's uh renovation of their stations
um to to to bring them up to standards for accessibility. So, who is going to enlighten us on on this matter? Again, the team from the tea is here. And let let me just say this hearing is
related to the hearing that we held on September 16 uh to approve the recommendation of the tree planting committee to permit the MBTA to remove certain trees in connection with their renovation of these two stations uh to make them more accessible. Tonight we're
hearing a request by the MB MBTA for a grant of location that is to define the area within our public streets where they can construct the stations and place their utilities. um the area outside that granted location will still be under our
control. So, introduce yourself and uh and present your information. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good evening. It's good to see everyone again. Uh the select board will require just as the chair said, we were here on September 16th when we presented information about the C branch accessibility project. My
name is Matt Conover at the MBTA. I'm responsible for ensuring the su success of major projects that are of interest to the Federal Transit Administration. I'm joined this evening by Gwen Dun Levy. She is the deputy chief of integrated transit programs and she leads the GLT program. I should note
that I have a personal interest in ensuring this project success as a resident of Brookline and also a C branch rider. Today we're back in front of the select board to request an amendment to the 19 to excuse not 19 no 1897 grant of location between the town of Brookline
and the MBTA based on the changes to Englewood and Tapen Street stations which we discussed at the last meeting. This evening, we'll provide a brief reminder of the key elements of the project and present the details of the requested grant of reloca the grant of location at Englewood and Tapen Street
stations. The select board's approval of the grant of location is a necessary step to proceed with the final design, permitting, and construction of the project. The MBTA values the town's long-standing partnership in facilitating safe and effective public transportation.
Currently, there are nine inaccessible stations on the C branch. This project is designed to improve those stations. Accessibility is a shared priority at the town of Brookline and the MBTA. This project will upgrade six of those
nine stations by raising the platforms to 8 in. Currently, St. Mary's and Koolage Corner are examples of stations that are at 8 in. We will also combine Brandon Hall and Fairbbrank Street stations to improve travel times and ensure that the new type 10 trains can
serve all stations on the C branch. Lastly, we will eliminate Kent Street station due to its proximity to H Street and improve travel times further. These significant improvements require trade-offs which our team and the town have actively engaged on. For example,
the recent change in emergency backup power, which will now be provided without generators, and the reconfiguration of shelter locations to preserve parking are examples of how the MBTA has modified our designs to minimize negative impacts.
For those familiar with the nine stations mentioned, the challenges will be familiar. Our team has heard from numerous individuals who cannot access the green line from the station in front of their own home due to some of these challenges. Starting from the top left,
no protection from traffic. Stations like St. Paul shown here do not offer barriers from automotive traffic. Platforms are often overcrowded. Again, at St. Paul, customers are standing on the curb but hanging out into the traffic because of the lack of space
available. Narrow platforms. The image here of Tapen Street shows customers waiting in the limited space between Beacon Street and the yellow safety line. Devices like strollers, mobility scooters do not have enough room to fit in these locations. Limited wayfinding.
Stations like Haw shown in the top of the last column have limited way finding. Customers are not able to tell what stations they are when they are on board the train. Steep slopes shown in the first picture on the second row. Platforms are not level and have steep slopes which are
inaccessible and create challenges for mobility devices, strollers, and shopping carts, not to mention treacherous conditions when it is rainy or icy out. Uneven surfaces. Stations also have uneven surfaces like the ones shown at Dean Road. This makes using a mobility device like a wheelchair or a
walker impossible. Platform obstructions. Station platforms are obstructed by trees which mobility devices cannot pass. Further, this creates a pinch point and a safety concern for all customers and in some cases a physical conflict with the new type 10 train
shown here in an example of that condition at Dean Road. Lastly, stations are poorly lit and most rely solely on adjacent street lighting. This project will address the challenges that I just described. At the completion of the project, the entire C branch will
be accessible. In working with the town of Brooklyn, we have designed a project that will preserve the look and feel of Beacon Street, which is a unique Brooklyn asset. Through station consolidations, closures, and by platforms that are being shifted to ensure more reliable
service, the MBTA expects to see a 3 to 7% decrease in travel times on the SE branch. The project will bring improved wayfinding and lighting for our customers. In partnership with the town, we are minimizing impacts to the public shade trees and we have developed a
replanting plan to plant a consistent tree lawn along the Beacon Street corridor. Our team has refined the design to ensure that only the minimum number of parking spaces are impacted. And through various design changes, we've ensured that this project will not preclude the future bridal path, which
will further enhance Beacon Street. This project has taken a significant amount of work from both the MBTA teams and the town of Brooklyn. This effort started back in 2022 during the initial design phase. To date, we have held numerous public engagements including open houses and various presentations to
town board. We have also provided required environmental MEPa outreach. We look forward to additional engagement as we continue along with the project. Once underway, the project is anticipated to move relatively quickly, completing construction before the end of 2026.
Now, we'll provide details on the requested grant of location for Englewood and Tapen Street stations. Hello. Uh, my name is Gwen Don Levy. I'm the deputy chief of integrated transit programs who oversees the Greenline Transformation Group. I've been delivering projects for the MBTA along
the green line for the past five years, including multiple projects within Brooklyn. Uh, thank you for having us back here to share with you our requests for a grant of location for the Tapen and Anglewood stations. Um, our current grant of location, originally signed in the late 1800s,
only includes the 25 20 foot wide stretch encompassing the tracks themselves, as pictured here. Um reviewing the current station at Englewood, most of the existing infrastructure, including the platforms,
walkways, and shelter are outside our grant of location. We have worked with the town to find the smallest, least impactful footprint we can use for the new stations. The requested additional granted area for Anglewood includes the two platforms,
the slope walkways needed to reach them, and the electrical equipment to supply the power for the platforms. It does not include the location for the shelter, the curb ramps, or the tree line, which will be outside the main station and will be handled through a memorandum of
understanding that will be signed in the future between the town and the MBTA. The outbound station requires just over 2,000 square feet and the inbound location is just over,600. Here we show the details of the new station to highlight the components of
the grant. picture of the platforms, walkways, and equipment which are within the area of the grant request, as well as the shelter shown behind the inbound platform outside the bounds of that request. Some people may notice that the location of the electrical equipment and shelter have changed from the last time
we presented. We are still actively working with the town to build the station that best suits their needs, and this change comes from that effort. But these modifications will have no additional impacts on trees, parking or crossings, any of those items that we've gotten the previous approvals on.
Uh the final angle with slide is a rendering showing the view looking west down the tracks towards Cleveland Circle. Uh visible on the left is the inbound station and its various amenities including the signage, lights, benches, news, new raised and widened
platform and the tree lawns. Uh similar to Englewood, the current granted location from the late 1800s only includes the 25 foot wide stretch of tracks here at Tapen Street. Also like Anglewood, most of the existing infrastructure at the Tapen,
including the platforms, walks way and shelter are outside that grant. Uh the requested additional granted area for tapen includes again the platforms slope walkways needed to reach them and the electrical equipment that powers those platforms does not include the
shelter or the curb ramps. Um the outbound station requires just under 2200 ft uh square feet and the inbound platform just under 1,800 square f feet. Uh here we highlight the station components for tapin. uh the platform,
walkways and equipment again are all within the granted request or request for grant while the shelter behind the outbound platforms are outside the bounds of that grant request. Uh like Englewood, the station is designed to be compact and minimize the impacts to all
uh town infrastructure around it. Uh closing out the presentation is a rendering of Tapen looking east towards St. Aries with the inbound platform on the right and the outbound platform on the left. The view again shows what the final station will look like with all its amenities and improvements. We hope
these renderings help showcase the large difference you will see with the stations from what is present today. Lastly, I would like to thank the select board for its time reviewing this extremely important project with us. We are hopeful that the select board will approve our request for this grant
allocation, a necessary first step in the process to delivering this important project. Uh we look forward to the major improvements to the safety and user experience of everyone who uses the station this project. If there are any comments or uh questions you would like to share with us, we're here and happy
to listen and answer. Okay. Thank you. Any questions from the select board before we open up for the public hearing? Michael. Um thank you very much for your uh presentation and your ongoing presentations to the uh select board and
all of the committees within town. It's been uh a very helpful collaboration. Um I have one question about Tapen Street. Um you noted that the proposed shelter is outside of the grant of location um
which is an exception to all of the other equipment um and infrastructure for these platforms as so it seems. Um, and I just want to understand why that choice was made to put the shelters outside of the grant of location. Are
they being managed in some way by the town? Does the town bear any responsibility or is that going to be part of a me part of the memorandum of agreement? That will be part of the memorandum. Um the reason that they are outside it was a town staff request u and I believe
it's because we do have uh future plans still quite a ways out maybe 10 years from now to make further upgrades to these stations which will include uh canopies that will then make the shelters redundant. So those would go away and that would mean that that future work would not necessarily change
that part of the granted location. Thank you. Yep. Thank you. Um thank you for the very clear presentation. Um, and this may be a question to you and also to the town administrator. The last time you presented, I had mentioned uh the lighting and how we would, my
preference is to see it be more consistent with the historic uh nature and character of Beacon Street. We have you've seen the lighting that we have existing lighting. Um, while I like the new lighting, it's still it's a little too modern and not consistent. Is there a way uh Jazz or whoever can we include
this in the memoranding of understanding or agreement? I'm concerned that we're gonna those lights are going to go in and they're never ever going to be changed. So, it's you know the memorandum of understanding is what comes after the grant of location and yes, we can absolutely work that out with the I know it may may require us to take on
some cost but it could be worth it um to improve what's being proposed. Yes, we are and we can obviously discuss that with with the MBTA but yeah, that would be a part Thank you. Uh John, um thanks again for um uh appearing
before us and for the work to uh especially the work on um bringing all of the seaine into compliance with the ADA. Um I think it was largely be you know on the strength of that the importance of the ADA compliance that um
you know people uh including myself who were hoping for a better outcome uh with the trees and in particular one tree at Tapen Street. um you know were were disappointed but sort of resigned to
uh the outcome that we got at the last meeting of the site board uh which was a determination by the MBTA that um they didn't think the tree could be saved um and uh the weight of opinion of the other of boards that had reviewed this
including our tree planning committee um and some who testified uh to us especially from the commission on disab ility was that um there there was not a path towards saving the tapestry tree um
that anyone could see that would justify u getting in the way of these important disability uh enhancements. Um since then, you know, there's been further discussion of all of this. There's a town meeting Warren article that
actually addresses tree tree protection in Brooklyn. um and proposes to add to tree protections in Brookline the inclusion of excuse me of a hearing process uh to make sure that the work
done by the town um you know is is equally as compliant as the requirements that we're going to place on private entities. Uh, I'm just wondering if this grant of location can and should include language that um
says that the grant of location is based on uh the understanding that the work done on the on these two stations, but also all future work on the sea line will be in compliance with the town's um
uh tree bylaw, which there's a new tree bylaw. I'm not sure whether it's been approved by the attorney general yet. Is can we have a quick word on that? I don't believe so. I will double check right now. I think we're they asked for an extension. So, let me double check. I
just got in the information on that today. So, maybe we're talking Oh, no. The Sorry, the tree protection bylaw was approved. I'm sorry. It was approved by the approved by the general. So, we have approval from the attorney general. We have a very clear um tree bylaw. Um, I'm having a hard time
understanding why we should not uh include in our grant of location language that says, you know, this is on the understanding and agreement that the um work by the MBTA uh in this case will be in conformance with the requirements
of Brooklyn's tree bylaw. Well, John, doesn't the I think the tree bylaw does not apply to the public way or public lands. It's only to private lands. Correct. Well, it can apply if we put it in the terms of the we could apply it anything, but that's
not and there's a warrant article currently that would apply it essentially to work by the town. So, I don't know how that warrant article is going to turn out, but um the idea that uh work uh that that compliance that we require of
individual property owners in Brooklyn and contractors who do work on on property in Brooklyn um uh is somehow not applicable to work being done by an entity such as the MBTA. I I don't get the logic there. I mean, I think if we want to apply it, we should apply it
because couple things here. one that article that's now pending is a non-binding resolution. So, and and unfortunately, we can't put conditions on we can't single out the tea. Basically, we can't single out the tea if we've already said the law doesn't apply in other contexts. And um Susan
Harris is here from town council's office and can explain more, but we can't put a condition on a grant of location that's not, you know, that's not a un we can't make that law apply just to the tea and to nobody else, unfortunately. So we can't be in a
situation where we say it's you know for this for this particular case the law does apply to you even though the law says it doesn't apply in every other context. So um but Susan if you have anything to add on that front. Hi thank you Susan Harris associate town
council. Um Susan sorry the mic. Thank you. um the MBTA statute um exempts it from essentially certain local zoning and other bylaws. So the M the town's tree preservation bylaw does
not apply to the MBTA. Um and with respect to grants of location, we're not able to encumber grants of location with other conditions that were not part of the original grant of location. So essentially we can grant a location for railway purposes, but we can't encumber
it with other types of conditions. Well, as a followup, um, in that case, uh, what is the point of of a hearing on a grant of location? Is there any reason that we could offer not to give a grant of location to the MBTA?
Um, the town's not required to grant the location to the MBTA, but the the MBTA has requested it in order to do these improvements. Um the land that is being would be utilized by the MBTA to make these improvements is town land that hasn't previously been granted to them.
So they are coming to us to ask for um access to that land to make the improvements. Okay, Michael. Um, without debating the merits of a warrant of a warrant article in in the November
warrant, um, my understanding was that the the the T followed I believe it was chapter 87 um, with regard to our tree planting committee and that entire process was properly and correctly followed with
regards to um the disposition of trees along even within their grant of location. Is that is that correct? That is correct. Um um general as chapter 87 applies to public shade trees. So that's um different from our
tree preservation bylaw which doesn't apply to public shade trees. So the MBTA did follow that that process. Okay. Well, yeah. But I do think you know John raises a question. I do think it's worth answering if there's an answer available. Um, if this body decided to
not grant the location, does the MBTA have any recourse? That's a great question. Um, the MBTA does have the power to seek to take the land by eminent domain. Okay. Thank. And that and and if that if they did seek to take the land by eminent domain. Would the conditions that we've negotiated with the granted
location understanding hold or could they be invalidated and they could just take the land? If the MBTA sought to take the land by eminent domain, they could just seek to do that regardless of these other conditions. Okay. Thank you. Okay. John,
I had another point to make. I I'm worried that people listening to this conversation are going to think that um somehow uh you know uh we're we're refighting the the relitigating the issue of the Tap Street tree. I wish we
could, but that isn't my intent. Um, what's at issue here is the is the in the terms of the town's tree bylaw is the specific requirements as to replacement of removed trees. And the tree bylaw is very specific in in its
terms as to what is required when trees are removed um as to how they can be replaced. And that is the aspect of the tree bylaw that I I think is worthy of writing into um any memor memorandum of understanding uh that we have with the
MBTA um um in this matter. Um uh I'm getting you know a strong uh indication from my left here that uh that shouldn't be written into the memorandum of understanding. I'm not sure what the consequences would be if we were to
write it into the memorandum of understanding just as a way of letting the team know where we're coming from. I I know for a fact that there has been a lot of negotiation and a lot of give and take. um starting with the MBTA, you know, conceding practically nothing and
then good for them coming around to making lots of concessions as to how they are going to try to remediate the removal of trees as as part of this project. All I'm trying to do is get to a more specific understanding of what we mean by the remediate the removal of
trees. And I think a, you know, a good place to start and to finish is with our tree removal bylaw, which has very specific requirements on how to remediate the removal of trees. Well, yep. Uh, John, and I I really appreciate
your adding that this discussion because I do think that it could be a proxy for uh for public benefit, but it doesn't really apply to the situation. And here's why. Uh, the tree preservation bylaw applies to private land. So, if I have a very large tree on my property,
as you know, and I decide I want to remove that and I get permission to remove it, I either need to pay money to the town per inch or replant trees equivalent to and there's a formula. Um, because the public benefit or based on the logic of the bylaws, that public
benefit is to remove the carbon and help with climate change. The MBTA has a much different equation. the public benefit that they're that they're giving in return for removing the trees in addition to adding some trees is making the tea and be accessible uh ADA
accessible requirement by law. Well, but but but it's also it's requirement by the law. But but you know, John, they could also say, you know, bag uh let's forget uh these stations and just shut them down. uh which would be a tremendous detrimental
uh consequence to Brookline if if they were to no longer continue to service Brooklyn along Beacon Street. So there's tremendous public benefit. Um and I know the loss of the tree is is upset everybody. It's it's it's upset me although I think the accessibility
outweighs the value of the tree. It's a much different uh value equation. Um, and it's not it it's just not apples. It's not apples and apples uh with with private land ownership in a private tree. Could the T maybe talk a little bit about their replanting plans for this
once this is done? Absolutely. So, as I think you all know, we've presented to the tree planting committee and to yourselves about the tree impacts this project is going to have at least at these two stations. Um we are working diligently with uh RLE's tree commission and arborists to find
the best plantings we can do at these station locations. But also on top of that once we are done doing the up or doing the presentations finalizing designs for each of these individual stations um we have even if
they are not part of the Brooklyn town bylaws there are laws about replacing replacement of trees and things like that which we will be following and if we cannot find enough space along Beacon Street at these stations to replant the trees then we will offer to the town to
replant in other locations based on their preference. to make up for whatever else we owe. Um and we have a you know budgeted money for this and if we end up realizing that we can plant more than what is required we will do that as well. Um so we are committed to
work with the town. Obviously you know there are other mitigations if we don't get approval but that is an antagonistic view and not something that we want to pursue. We want to be partners in this. You know this is a shared priority for both of us. It looks bad for everyone if we stop surfacing Sea Branch or we do
land takings or any of that. And that's definitely not what we want. We want to make this a partnership where we give something that makes everybody happy. Train riders, tree lovers, everybody should be happy when we're done with this because it should be improvements for everyone involved. Michael. Um,
I would also uh add um on top of Paul's reasoning that um that I believe that the chapter 87 process that was actually used in this case that resulted in the presentation
and the negotiation and agreement to replace trees and to pro and to uh position the stations where there would be minimum the to in order to minimize tree loss and to provide additional
trees um is actually potentially a better process especially for public shade trees than the process that we have for our private trees. The big difference between those is that the
private uh the process we have in the warrant article does not include any part of public process. It's an administrative matter. You file a you file a form, you you go through the the rules that have been established, but there's no public aspect to that
process. And the addition of that public process and the negotiation that results with the tree planting committee from my perspective more than mitigates the the downside of not applying the particular
set of rules that are established in the tree bylaw. Okay. Okay. Uh why don't we move on to the public hearing? Uh Tiffany, you like to open that up? Yes. Now that the chair has opened up the public hearing, there are no individuals who signed up in advance to
speak on this grant of location. If anyone online wishes to speak at this time, please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature or if in the room, please make your presence known. Yes, Brian Kaine. Uh thank you, Tiffany. Brian Kane, I have the great honor to chair the transportation board. I live in precinct
6. Uh just to update the select board, I know you received a letter from the transportation board. Uh we held a our own public process on this topic on the 17th of September. Um and at that time voted to send you the letter which you've received expressing the transportation board's support for the
MBTA's proposal with respect to Anglewood Avenue and Tapen Street, including uh proposed parking changes and the shift in crosswalks at Anglewood Avenue. We look forward to voting on proposed elements within the transportation board's jurisdiction specifically related to parking and
crosswalk modifications once the select board itself is done with the grant of location. Uh obviously we can't uh take action until we sort of know what the boundaries are. So we look forward to the select board finishing up uh its uh work on this and uh and we look forward
to following up and doing our bit assuming it meets with our standards. And just um wanted to thank uh Miss Dunlevy, um Matt Conover, Mr. Zho, uh M Desiree who's here, as well as the folks from the from the DPW, uh Commissioner
Shu, Dan Murphy, uh Dan Martin, Amy Engles, uh lots of folks worked very hard, very diligently on this to make this um I don't know if everyone's happy, Miss Dun Levy, but everyone's not unhappy and sometimes that's the best you can hope for. So, uh, I think most
people are are not unhappy with, uh, the proposal, and I would urge you to, uh, to do this. And by the way, it's pretty cool that we get to amend something from 1897, too. So, that's, uh, that's pretty cool. So, thank you very much. Thank you. The next speaker is Shaun
Lynn Jones. Sean, I'm promoting you now. Thank you very much. I'm Sean Lynn Jones, president of the Brookline Greenspace Alliance and a town meeting member from Precinct One. Um I uh listened with great interest to the discussion that was initiated by Mr. Van
Skoryak and um you know leaving the questions of what bylaws say whether they're applicable um and whether the state process which was an excellent process uh is more important than the town tree preservation bylaw. I would
just say that um it's important somehow in this process uh to ensure whether through the any conditions which may or may not be possible to attach to a grant location um other understandings um
memoranda of agreement uh and so forth that the plans for tree preservation, tree planting and tree protection during construction that have been discussed um in great detail by the MBTA, by town
staff, by several boards and uh committees, including this one, are followed and implemented. And it seemed to me that that was the most important point that Mr. Vansoic was trying to make. And I'm not sure what the best avenue is to make sure that going
forward we do um you know have full adherance to everything that was painstakingly negotiated uh and which I think Brian Kaine just said may not have made everyone happy but at least didn't leave everyone completely unhappy. And I'd be the first to say that I'm very
sad to see that 36 pinch pin oak destroyed. Uh but I also having followed this for well over a year now know that the current plan for Tapen and Anglewood stations is far better than the original plan. More trees will be preserved, more
trees will be planted and I hope more trees will be protected from damage during the construction process. And I hope we see that going forward as we do this multiple times for the additional stations that will be renovated. All of which will require a plan for trees and
um a vote I assume for a grant of location. So if there's any way to make sure that this is you know adeared to uh implemented as understood uh whether through conditions or otherwise uh I think that would be uh productive just
to reassure everyone that we're going to get the outcome we thought we were going to get. Um imperfect but still better than where we began over a year ago. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any other individuals who wish to speak at this time?
There are a little more than 10 individuals in the room, 32 online, and it looks like no one else is indicating their desire to speak. Okay, we'll close the hearing and uh unless there are any other comments or questions from the board, I'd like you do have one. I I do have one. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. And
I'm sorry if I'm taking too much of my time, but um uh you know before we close this um I I just hope people will ask themselves um because it's been said many times over and and it was said very effectively by um Erin Chute um our our
head of DPW last night uh at at at one of the meetings where this came up. um very effectively she said at the that there has been real progress made um in dealing with the MBTA on their plans for
this project. But as part of that she said at the beginning of the process they weren't going to concede anything. I mean, basically all they would uh, you know, say they were going to do was we're we're going to do it the way
we we we have to do it. Um, but not make any promises, you know, um, as to, you know, interventions by the town and saying, "No, you know, not if you do it this way, but if you do it that way." And it it required, according to Aaron, um, and I take her word um, for this.
Absolutely. Um it required lots and lots and lots of tough negotiating to get them to where they are today. Um, if people would ask themselves uh what what is it that would have led the MBTA to
after sort of coming on strong at the beginning and basically just saying we're going to do it and here's our plan um to agree to all kinds of um tweaks and you know and uh uh preferences from the local level and so on. What what
caused them to do that, as far as I'm concerned, was that there was the uh provisions that applied to Beacon Street uh in terms of preservation of trees that they had to meet through an agreement by the select board to um
agree with their plan on how they would meet the those those provisions. And then the only remaining thing is what we're faced with tonight. It's the grant of location. So, they knew they had to get that first vote and I'm assuming they have to get this vote. Um, and after this vote is taken, there's
nothing left. And this is two stations out of what eight um on the sealine. Uh, and uh we we are at risk of, you know, the possibility in the future that what the we thought the MBTA had agreed to,
they're not sticking to it. And now, how do we hold them to it? Um, well, years have gone by. Two stations have already been done. Uh, so I I'm a little concerned that without an expression of what our aim is in terms of requirements
for replacements of trees, um, they'll basically be at liberty after tonight to either go along with what we thought they were saying they would do or to change what they are saying they will do. Um, and if trees die after one year
that they, you know, after they've been planted, one year after they've been planted, um, and they say they won't replace those trees that died, we're stuck with that. Yeah. Um, so, uh, I I I just wish we had some kind of language we could apply here, um, that would at least
give us a little bit of remaining leverage so that, um, after tonight, if things go wrong and we find that they're not doing what they said they would do, um, we have something to lean on. Paul, yep. So, uh, John, and I I do think, uh,
you're raising a good point, and I think there's a number there are some things we can do, but first, uh, to take a step back about Erin's comments and your comment about how how much progress has been made on this specific project. I I I think that, uh, a lot's been made, but
I think the MBTA has a a newfound appreciation for partnership with Brooklyn. That's that's the bigger picture because it wasn't always this way, right? We weren't always working together. There'd be decrees, things would suddenly change. We didn't hear uh
you know, we didn't get notice. Suddenly, there'd be people doing construction work along the public way or uh having to, you know, cross Brookline property in order to access the TE's without any communication. And I think the MBTA has really recognized the importance of working together. Uh
and so is Brookline. So, I think that's that that's a very important step. And I hope that after this project is done, these two stations and the rest of Beacon Street, that that will continue because it's, as you can tell, it's a better outcome for everybody. The other thing I'd like to say, and this is may
irk some of my my peers a little bit. It's not not intended to, but the real reason why the MBTA was kind of put into a process to ensure a local collaboration was our town form of government. If we were a city, I predict
that we would not have been able to have these public processes. We would not have had the risk of uh a couple of members of the community appealing uh a a tree outcome or even a a decision of the transportation board. Um it's our
town form of government that got this outcome. And I think people need to make sure they weigh that as they consider our form of government in the future. And I'm not saying one way or the other, but it was an important aspect of it. With respect to um John's point about
guarantees, I assume first that we're only granting the location for two stations tonight. It's not the entire quarter. So, you know, we're going to see how these two go. I assume you're going to come pretty quick for the other ones. But um I do
think it's important that uh in in the spirit of the agreement you do what you say you're going to do but also it may be helpful to have number of trees and quantities in our member of memoranding of understanding. Are we able to do that to have a a basis? I think we can you know the memorandum
of understanding is much more flexible than the grocation. Yep. Um and that's where we're going to be able to kind of have that level of back and forth on this. It would I think it would be good to have some of that in there at least as a minimum. And I'm encouraged that you're saying if you can exceed, you'll exceed. You'll go above and beyond, which I think would be really great. You can see
how important our urban tree canopy is to us. So, um, the more that you can do, the better. But I do think it would be helpful is to to get at what John is raising a good point, um, that we should have is somewhere written. It may not be to the extent of our current tree
preservation bylaw that supplies to, you know, private private land, but it does at least uh codify and memorialize the agreement that we have on how many trees are going to be replaced at a minimum and then possibly the opportunity to do more. Thank you.
I heard reference to a memorandum of understanding. So, is that something that's going to come later? You know, it comes later. Yeah, it comes after the grant of location. After the grant of location. Okay. So many steps. Okay. Okay. Be Michael, you want to add something?
I I just want to ask ask a question now that there's a memorandum of understanding coming after this and we know the transportation board. Um I'm wondering if the T has any current estimates as to when construction for these two stations will begin. Um right now we're working with our
contractor to find out um what their timeline can be. The one thing we're trying to avoid is starting construction, which would start with removing trees and starting to, you know, dig up and move utilities, uh, making a mess of the stations and then leaving until the spring because doing
this kind of civil work is very hard to do in the dead of winter. So, we are working on the timelines both based on this approval and based on what access we can get with other work to find out. But I will say that we will make sure that if we are to start this work and start to impact the town, we will work
continuously um to finish these stations and not come in, make a mess, then leave for 3, four months during the winter and then come back in the spring to finish it. So I cannot say for sure if we'll be able to start and make significant progress this
fall or not. That'll really depend on some timings that we still have to work out. But when we do come in, we are going to work until we're done. Thank you. Did you want to speak to Thank you. Just wanted to add to the
extent the select board is concerned about sort of holding the MBTA to what's been discussed. Um we could add language to the the motion something about you know conditioned on the asurances that the MBTA has made to the town.
Okay. You want to give any language? I'll write something down. Hey, we're gonna vote in a little while. So, I have one other question if I may. So, um could could the MBTA tell us when what's the timing of coming back for the
other stations? Do you have a sense of of the timing for those? I know it may not be all at once, but how it's going to work out. Um I would expect right now that we will come back at least twice more. Um I think that because uh the changes to
Fairbanks Brandon Hall will be so significant. We might want to discuss that as a individual station, the other ones that the impacts are smaller. We will probably come back as a group as we did these two as a group. Um I am hopeful that we will be able to come back for most if not all of them before
the end of the year. But if not, it will be shortly after. And a lot of that will depend on um how much we are working with the town to change how many changes we have to make to design. Um you know a lot of these ones like I think I mentioned in one of our previous meetings um these stations are first
because our original design and our final design are fairly similar. The rest of them are lagging behind because there are more significant changes with our you know conversations with the town and the um the changes we can make to reduce those impacts. So, um, those ones
got set back to the beginning of the design process through this process that we've been going within town. Um, but I think they will follow along in the next couple of months. So, I guess my my may I just comment on that, Bernard? Um, just briefly. So, um,
we've spent quite a bit of time together over the past few months and you've seen how it g has gone. Uh, and these weren't really complicated. Some of the other stations are very very complicated. So, I would I would encourage you to set
your expectation appropriately for how quickly you could come back. Um, build in all that public input, public hearings, listening. It's very, very important in time for adjustments. Um, because these two seem to be easy. Uh, haha. Um, the others are very
complicated. David, just a couple questions. You mentioned when uh you anticipate that the projects might begin because you want to work continuously. So I infer from your answer either very soon or you'd probably wait until the spring. How long
though do you think it would take to complete? I understand you would work straight through. But how long is this two months, four months? Um so we wouldn't likely work at all the stations at the same time. Uh just the level of disruption that would be to the town and to the tea would not be great.
um we'll probably work at a couple at a time. Um but right now we expect that even if we don't start any of these until the spring that we will be done by the end of next year. All right. And then another question I have that you just alluded to in your answer that you don't want to create a
lot of disruption. So can you explain what type of disruption we would anticipate when you're working on a particular station? Would we need to narrow Beacon Street somewhat? Where would you be uh storing some of these construction vehicles, equipment?
Uh so we have done um some significant work along Beacon Street in the past. Uh and we know that there are certain things we have to be careful of. Um one that we've heard a few times is contractors using Brooklyn parking uh for their for their personal vehicles. Obviously construction equipment will
have to be right at the station locations where they're working, but um that is something we've heard before. Um the stations on the westbound side of Beacon Street uh likely will not have many impacts to the
the street itself because we have that angled parking area that will allow us access to the station without impacting traffic. On the eastbound sign, there will likely need to be one lane closed while we're doing our construction. Um just to allow for the construction equipment to reach over to where the
construction is happening. Um, as far as two tea service for people who ride the tea, um, we expect that there will likely be uh a few weekend closures, maybe one more extended closure, but if that happens, that will be in conjunction with other work that needs
to go on in the corridor. Um, and likely a lot of this work will be done through station bypass where the train still running. Um, but that specific station is closed while it's being worked on. Thank you. Great. Do you have some language for us?
off the curses. Well, you have a little printer down there, too. Oh, the asurances. Okay. The asurances the MBTA has provided the town. That's That's what you want to add
to the um vote. The whole the whole vote is is this whole language. That's right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So the um the proposed language can't hear you. There you go. Thank you. The proposed language you have uh reflects the grant of location
and we've suggested conditioning the grant of location on the insurance the asurances the MBTA has provided the town. Um if there are specific aspects of that you want to call out, we could try to include those. But I think there are a number of a number of things that have been discussed back and forth in
this process. So as insuranceances uh provided the town when do you want to leave that just open-ended? you say throughout the um development of this request.
Okay. During the development of the accessibility project of this request, pardon me, she said of this request. I'm saying something else. Okay. So that is clear. Okay.
during the development of the um what are we calling this? Beacon Street uh C branch accessibility project. C branch accessibility project. Okay. So, it reads it would read if people agree. uh the lawyer person. I'm
just wondering if we could be a little more specific such as including and then the portions we're most interested in because this is very generic about I actually think generic is better because if you say including but not limited you know you're you're starting to
then then you're the more you narrow it the more the potential is for someone to say oh well you what you really meant was that as opposed to everything else we agreed there's recordings of public meetings all I think I think this I think there's a good paper I'll hear of everything that's been agreed to. Yeah.
Did you Did you have your hand up? No, I did not. No one else. Uh, okay. Let me tell you what's going to be in the uh in the vote. Uh, conditioned on the asurances the MBTA has provided the town during
the development of the C branch accessibility project. Everyone okay with that? Okay, let's vote. I move approval of the following. Okay. How do we make this into a motion? Excuse me. I move. Okay. Uh, let me just read it
and then we'll consider it an appropriate motion to deem that public necessity and convenience require granting the MBTA and amended location on Beacon Street in the areas of the Tapen Street Station and the Inglewood Avenue Station for the purpose of
operating the so-called C branch of the Green Line and approve conditioned on the asurances the MBTA has provided the town during the development of the C branch accessibility project an amended
uh so we're approving an amended grant of location substantially as shown in the sketch okay information and documents provided by the MBTA and filed herewith constituting the MBTA's petition with
the final plan and language of the location to be developed by the MBTA incorporating the aforementioned conditions and approve approved by the town administrator and that this amended location shall supersede prior grants of location in substantially the same area
of Beacon Street for substantially the same purpose. Everyone okay with that? Okay, I've moved approval. All in favor? John Vancoyak. Hi. Paul Warren. Hi. David Pearman. Hi. Michael Rubenstein. Hi. Chair votes eye. Thank you everyone. Thanks very much.
And I want to thank the DPW team again. Everyone who's been here tonight. A lot of work went into this. We really appreciate you coming out. Hey, thanks to the team. Paul, could you give this to Tiffany for the record? Okay. Next discussion and possible vote
on warrant articles for the November 18, 2025 special town meeting included but not limited to although we only have one so it is limited to article 17 resolution regarding tree preservation practices.
How relevant. What a nice coincidence. And this one has actually been postponed at the request of the petitioners based on um based on how it went at advisory. They want to um do some revisions and come back to you in October.
Okay, good. Good. Sorry. Didn't I didn't read my script. Okay. Boards and commissions annual report presentation of the trustees of Walnut Hills annual report to the select board. Um, I see uh Mr. Mikl John is uh
at the mic. Good evening. Um, I'm Randolph Mkel John. I'm uh the current chair of the trustees of Walnut Hill Cemetery. Um, and uh I'll be brief. Um it was it was
nice hearing about uh the uh 1897 grant of location from the MBTA because you know with at Wness Hill Cemetery we're very comfortable in the 19th century. I've spent a lot of this year uh observing the 150th anniversary
of the 1875 uh opening of that cemetery. And if you um if you all have book brookline.news news bookmarked. Um you should see a short article um uh coming up within the next week
timed to coincide with the October 5th consecration day of the cemetery in 1875. And the only reason that this is appearing was that the journalist um who covers uh parts of Brookline
um read the minutes of this of my appearance here before you last June, heard about the anniversary, started following it. Next thing you know, we you know, she came on the tour, she interviewed some um folks in uh in TPW and you know, all this for, you know,
probably a couple lines of of text, right? Um, so you know, uh, that cemetery from 1875. You may also know, um, we have the old burying ground from 1717. Um, you can't be buried there anymore, but these
are both, um, important public open spaces, uh, with significant benefits uh, and opportunities for the public. Some of them some of them still unrealized. In the memo that I sent you, and we're not going to go into detail about it, um there was just a recap of
our activities um since I appeared before you last. And then, uh the back page was a look at um some what we're working on now. um and uh which includes regulations which
includes a review of of spending from the special cemetery trust funds and a move towards a renewal of the master plan uh for Walnut Hills, which is something I mentioned last year and I've been in an ongoing conversation with um
the the two parks directors who uh have been in place um since I joined the trustees, actually three, and then the the DPW W Commissioner. Um, as I say in the memo, um, everyone acknowledges the value of of planning. Uh, this is this
is how you make your cemetery last 150 years and still have space. Um, uh, I would like us to be planning for the next 50 years. Um, and I and I think that's doable. As I said in the memo, clearly the one of the constraints on
this is the time of the um senior town staff responsible for open space. So this is one of the starting points for me as the chair, which is to try to figure out how to work um work smart and efficiently with the limited bandwidth
those senior staff have for one this one open space among the many we have in the town. Um, worth mentioning this is the second largest open space in the town that you can wander around in. Uh, second only to Lars Anderson Park. I don't count the golf course because it's not really safe
to go wandering around out there. um a few um it's been a sort of year of of synergies between our public events and the regulatory work uh that trustees have been have been working on over the
course of our typically four meetings a year and also synergies with some um other things going on in town. I was uh like many of you, I was at the uh Koolage Corner Theater a couple of weeks ago when um Chris Dempsey and Jeff Speck
appeared and talked about the the um the planning effort for the the the Center Street Lots. And um I uh uh ran right out and got the uh 10th anniversary edition of of Jeff's book. And in the
introduction he one of the planning ideas in his introduction is that it's worth um looking at uh areas where the physical environment has been planned uh for one purpose where it could actually serve many purposes. And we
have a version of this uh in the cemetery that we discovered through some of the ongoing discussions on our public tours and within the trustees about green burial or environmental burial. Um, in regulatory terms, it is currently prohibited in Brooklyn, although other
cemeteries allow it, including Mount Auburn Cemetery, which it was sort of a a um, you know, a private aspirational appear of ours, and it's a cemetery that uh, Walnut Hills tells is modeled after. And um there are regulations on uh on
the books from the 1960s when um Walnut Hills began to require that uh casket burials um be placed in concrete vaults. And uh um one of the main purposes of this is to make it easier to mow the
grass with lawnmowers. And this is Jeff Speck's point that, you know, if you have if you have streets that are mostly designed for easy snow plowing or mostly designed for easy trash removal, um then they might not be as as human and usable
and enjoyable as streets that are designed for all the things that, you know, he would like to design streets for. Um so this is a planning opportunity at the cemetery. Um we could be um we could be looking for ways to be
um a more environmental and sustainable cemetery. Um that of course involves taking care of the the tree canopy which was already substantial but also offering more benign uh less uh um
chemical and fuel dependent options for burial. And um in the last master plan which began in 2001 that was actually the point of introduction of um small lots for burying cremated remains which wasn't
available before. And going forward you know over the next 50 years um it might be possible to offer these more benign forms of of of uh of disposition including scattering of ashes which uses less land. And we do have a finite
amount of land left. Um as well as uh as well as uh as green burial. Could you explain uh what green burial is for those of us who Sure. not used it. Yeah. Green uh green burial
um is a form of burial where the body is placed in in um biodegradable material. It can be a a plain old wood casket with wood pegs. It can be a bamboo wrapper. It could just be a shrouding cloth and it's placed in
the earth um and earth is placed on top. And of course, this is this is in fact how all burials were done even at Walnut Hills um until the middle of the 20th century and all over the world for for thousands of years. And um we went over
the trustees had a field trip to Mount Auburn Cemetery to talk with the operations people and to understand how they did it. Um it's not that complicated. Uh it's a it's a somewhat different protocol from what they do now, but uh to place those concrete
vaults in the ground there. It's actually a backhoe that goes out and digs digs the graves. Um you could you could dig less, you could use less machinery. um and you could have a a quieter, greener uh burial experience. People people who came on the tours um
in May, which we did jointly with the Hutteran branch of the public's library, asked about this because they know it's offered in other cemeteries and some of them expected that Brooklyn uh would figure it out. Happy to take any other questions
otherwise I will let you carry on. Any other questions? No. Very interesting presentation. Yeah, you're always interesting. Yeah, it's great. Bring new information to us and in fact that it's such a large open space that
people can go and enjoy the uh fresh spring or winter air. I I should mention because again this came up with in the tea presentation um the tree canopy there was some of you will remember the I'm not going to get the name of it right. I think the urban
tree canopy replace study or something like that from 2021. We actually we we brought the graphics. There were many maps of the town that used GIS data. Um the two of them that we used on the public tour were of the density of the
tree canopy and the surface temperatures measured in July at noon. And in both cases, Walnut Hill Cemetery was the shadyiest large public open space in the
town and the coolest. And you know, of course, you can thank uh public works and parks and open space for their good care of the trees. Um it's um but that's that's one of the that's one of the the benefits of this space and I hope the public will come enjoy it more.
Yeah. Great. Uh Paul, yeah, I do have one question. Uh thank you. I you know little known fact I worked in the Allington Cemetery for several years. Okay. Um when I was in my my younger years although I didn't operate the backhoe I did see those very large cement vaults
get put in and process and does take it's a lot of work use a lot of energy takes a lot of space. Um you mentioned uh your desire to have a 50-year plan. Yep. And your struggle a bit to uh be able to get the cycles that you need. Um, one,
what cycles from the open space team because you know they're busy. Um, h how are you going about this? You said you have you're going at it, but I'm curious about how you're going to do it. Um, the short answer is I'm I I bringing
it up frequently. Remember, our parks and open space director is relatively new. She came in the spring. Um, I I I bring it up several times a year. Um, I ran into I don't think the DBW commissioner will mind me telling you that I ran into her on the street and I
brought it up then. Um, it's a it's a this this question of staff bandwidth is a real one and I um um the time frame for this or starting it um you know maybe a couple of years. We,
as I said in the memo, we we had done some work um in 2023 and 2024 to create more space for burials, which by my estimate will last us about eight years. Um I don't want to wait the whole eight
years. Um but um let me answer your question a different way. Um parks director of course does not work for me. Um, but I'm just uh I I feel like I I am making the best case I can about the value of the planning
work. Um, and you know, the age of the current master plan that we have is is on the record. Um, and it it answered questions that were questions in 2001. We have different questions now. So, so I guess it's safe to say we need
an update to our master plan. I assume that there are uh agencies or you know third parties that could assist us with developing that master plan. I don't know if we did it by ourselves last time. No, no, no. The last time it was done by there are landscape architects who
specialize uh in this sort of work. Uh one of the things I'm doing in the meantime is gathering some information from other municipalities. I just pulled a a summary page um from the city of Cambridge um uh
uh announced the release of their their their new master plan in August 2024. Um it's uh just the um and and and their their cemetery has hardly any space and
hard hardly any trees and they're just they're um it is it is it's it's a it's a more built out less green space than we have. But of course they they they are they're a larger city and it's it's accessible to many people. It's adjacent to another historic cemetery. So um
they've got a they've got a good menu as an example. Uh this is I would say this is the kind of thing that the trustees are trying to offer um uh parts open space to to try to to be helpful inident identifying what are the questions that
a plan would address. Do you have a sense of what a what an updated plan would cost? I don't I mean is it okay because any I guess my point is it would be good to maybe start thinking about putting some money in the CIP or reach into one of our many buckets
and this is also unique and this is the trustees are responsible for you know the trust the and so right and and and the and the is it to be funded by the trust or we we can't fun it this is this is this is this is one of those topics where we have to figure out how much the money can be funded by the trust where can we fund in the CIP all
of those things so we've got to there's it's a it's a complex funding environment. Yes. Okay. Um, thank you. Thank you. Nice to see you all. Next, Chesn Chestnut Hill commercial area study a presentation by the U
planning department. I see Meredith Mooney coming to the microphone. So, good evening. One moment, please. Sorry, two seconds. The trust is for purp. may not be available for other things.
Should we take a break now? Yes, please. Sorry, I got to call the sign in. Let's take a five minute break. Get up and stretch your legs. Check the score of the ball game. [Music]
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[Music] one. Hey, we are back and uh Meredith Mooney is at the at the DAS and u please speak. Thank you. Meredith Mooney, economic development director. Um here to present an update on the Chestnut Hill
commercial area study. I'm also joined this evening by Zach Tesler, economic development planner, who's joining us via Zoom. So, this is one of our periodic updates to the select board with a status update about the project. Um, and uh, you know, it's an
opportunity to give you a sense of what we've been working on recently, what the next steps are, and to address any questions or concerns you might have at this point in the study process. So, um, an overview of my presentation tonight. I think my goal is to try to keep the update to under 10 minutes. Um, so, uh,
it's going to be broadstrokes, but I'm happy to return to any slides and go deeper on, um, any of this update if you're interested. Um but in general we're going to be um I'll pro I'll provide an overview of the status of key project tasks and deliverables. Um we'll give an overview of the strategies uh
we've developed to advance the core study objectives and then provide um some highlights of the current draft zoning which we made a lot of progress on this past summer and then we'll provide a quick update on the status of city realy's most recent redevelopment
concept. So this slide is a uh a summary of the key components that will be included in the Chesna Hill Chestnut Hill commercial area study. Um and in no particular order uh we'll be including resoning recommendations, design guidelines as a complement to those
resoning recommendations. Uh transportation infrastructure upgrades, commercial area vibrancy enhancements and uh some town protections related to the zoning proposal. and um town protections would be a memorandum of agreement and tax
certainty agreements with some of the large property owners with near-term redevelopment interests in the study area. So this is a um sort of summary of our progress towards uh the completion of key tasks and deliverables in relation to the springtime meeting warrant
article submission deadline. Um the so the the first section these are all the um components that will be included as sections um or chapters of the Chestnut Hill commercial area study report. Um and then the uh bottom half
are the act the deliverables um that we'll be um preparing as part of this process and um follow-up tasks. So uh to the right is a spring 26 town meeting in May. The dotted line indicates the
anticipated filing deadline for um warrant articles. So that would be late February. And then uh this indicates sort of the timeline of the key project deliverables and um where they're at in terms of completion. So for the this the zoning um we we're preparing a special
district overlay zone. Um we're about halfway through the zoning process for that. We made a lot of progress over the summer. We presented the draft zoning which is also included in tonight's board agenda packet. to the community advisory group earlier this month. We received some
very helpful feedback. Um it was helpful to hear public comment and get initial responses to where things stand in terms of the draft zoning. Um and uh we've also had back and forth with the large property owners who are giving us feedback about the feasibility of some of the zoning compon the zoning u
requirements that we've proposed. Um, and so it's it's a work in progress, but I think uh over the past several months, we've made a tremendous amount of progress. The design guidelines, which will be a complement to the draft zoning, um, and that will ultimately be
um, approved and considered before the planning board, will be uh, diving into that next week. We're bringing on a consultant to help us um, uh, put together those design guidelines. The there are two existing sets of design guidelines for the Chestnut Hill area.
and they are um uh maybe 15 10 to 15 years old at this point and they are both uh multi-page word documents. And so we have made the decision just given how the zoning proposal has evolved and our consideration of multiple distinct subdists that it's important to have
more visual design guidelines um to really represent the the visions and distinctions between the subdists and the Chesn Hill commercial area as a whole. Um, so we're excited to to dive into that and provide updates to the community advisory group and select board transportation infrastructure
upgrades. We're about a third of the way through the transportation study for the Chestnut Hill study for the Chestnut Hill transportation study. Uh, over the summer uh there was we're working with our consultant on data collection analysis um and sort of an assessment of the existing conditions in terms of the
area's transportation infrastructure. and we are now moving into the exciting second phase where we're really going to start um uh hashing out concepts for um improvement. So at the upcoming community advisory group meetings in October, November, we're going to be presenting those concepts, getting some
feedback direction um and then refining those proposals. As a third phase, we're still finalizing um and sort of narrowing the scope of this work, but um it is our intention to pressure test the area's infrastructure um you know in light of the additional density that
they were considering with this resoning. And then the commercial area vibrancy enhancements. There were some examples of uh what types of enhancements we're going to be recommending. I think the scope of what we'll be um recommending is is pretty well defined at this point.
So, uh, the Chesna Hill commercial area study report, we in addition sort of in parallel with, uh, finishing up, um, or continuing to develop and putting finishing touches on these policy and planning recommendations as part of the study, we need to start drafting the actual study document, which will
provide an overview and record of uh, the study process, the community input that's really informed uh, the recommendations and gotten us to this point um, in the study process. town protections, as I mentioned earlier, that's uh memorandums of agreement and tax certainty agreements with uh large
developers with near-term um propert redevelopment interests. So, we've been as we're working on the zoning and um have had the benefit of uh some back and forth with the large property owners and a better understanding of what they might be interested in doing under the town's draft zoning. Uh we've been
making notes of items that should be addressed in uh the MOA agreements. We also have uh a lot of helpful recent examples in terms of MOAs negotiated with other developers in the context of other special district overlays. So I think once the we're on um we're a
little bit farther along in the zoning and feeling more confident in those components, the town protections will start to to take form pretty quickly. And then the zoning warrant articles. I did just want to talk a little bit about the anticipated package that um we'll be presenting um for your consideration and
town meetings consideration um several months from now. So it would be sort of three components. There would be the zoning warrant article itself which would have the amendments to the zoning bylaw that would incorporate the special district overlay zoning but then would also um include any additional amendments that would be required um to
integrate the special district zoning into the zoning bylaw. And then there would be additional articles related to um town meeting authorizing the select board to enter into um MOAS and tax certainty agreements with the developers. So that's sort of the anticipated package um that we are uh uh
preparing um in anticipation of springtime meeting consideration. So uh just to wanted to give you an update on the strategies that we have been developing to address the study objectives and um as you'll recall there are two uh main objectives for the the
Chesn Hill commercial area study. One to incentivize significant net new commercial tax growth and to enhance the livability and identity of the Chesn Hill commercial area. So these next series of slides are you know the strategies that you'll see um present in
the draft zoning and that uh are going to be you know the underpinnings of all the other recommendations that we've just talked about in the previous slides in terms of expanding the commercial tax base uh strategy of expanding the allowed uses particularly in the Chesnut Hill office park which is currently zoned as
office 2.0 0 which is very restricted commercial use limited to just office where there's um really no demand for um office or now or in the foreseeable future. Um providing adequate dimensional requirements. So examples
would be height and F um to maximize the commercial parts uh and components of any mixeduse development proposals. And then for uh subdists that have high impact economic development potential um requiring a minimum amount of commercial square footage to be included in any
mixeduse redevelopment proposals in order to utilize the special district um overlay zoning. So those are strategies to uh really focus on expanding the commercial tax base. In terms of enhancing livability and identity of the area, uh we're you know seeking to
promote mixeduse development to enhance area activation. So daytime, we're looking to really add um additional commercial use and density um so that there's greater activation of the area with customers and employees of commercial tenants. And then for evenings and weekends, we're looking to
add additional residential density um to activate those areas sort of during non-working hours. Um and that steady um consistent flow of foot traffic is going to really help keep the ground floor, the most visible part in the commercial area, um vibrant and healthy.
As we talked about, uh we're launching into the design guidelines which are really going to help um promote a cohesive uh aesthetic uh districtwide for the commercial area. And then um we're working on uh infrastructure improvements and a pedestrian and bike
network proposal uh that will make Chesna Hill feel safer and easier for all modes of transportation, but particularly focusing on the pedestrian experience. We're seeking to promote a mix of housing types, promoting a continuous tree canopy um related to sustainability goals as well as enhancing that
pedestrian experience. And then a series of commercial area vibrancy enhancements like public garden installations, wayfinding, branding that are really going to elevate the area. And then another recommendation will also be uh the town supporting um and participating in the exploration of um forging public
private partnerships with the property owners in the area uh to help make the public realm enhancements um sustainable in the and successful in the long term. And finally, uh I do think it is important to point out, this was something that we talked about very
early on as we were uh starting conversations with the community and the community advisory group for this project is that we're we're not looking to replicate the street. That's not feasible um uh for a variety of reasons. What we're looking to uh promote is a
diversity of a greater diversity of retail offerings in the Chesnut Hill area and to complement what currently exists at the street. So, we're looking to promote commercial uses um such as hotel events and conference facilities, medical office that are a complement to
um the offerings at the street. And then really in response to uh what we heard through the community input and from that initial community engagement process uh where there's a real desire to have more uh services and products offered um from local businesses that
meet the neighborhood needs as opposed to sort of the luxury or upscale offerings at the street. So we're looking to incentivize smaller scale groundf flooror retail space that eventually will lend itself more to or align more with the needs of small independently owned businesses. um to
help u you know meet that um community uh wish top priority community wish list item. So I did want to the draft zoning is included in your packets. It's um still a work in progress. Um has a lot of uh moving parts, but I did want to
provide just a brief overview of sort of the the framework outline of that. This is the existing zoning. Um you can see particularly the multif family and sort of the m mint green color and then the general 1.0 in uh the orange color
uh sort of a mashup. Um this is the existing zoning and it will remain as the base zoning. We're not looking to make any modifications to the existing zoning. What we are proposing um in the resoning recommendations for Chestnut Hill would be an overlay zone uh which
would have four subdists that you see here. And I'm going to quickly run through um each of those with some highlights. So, the zoning components that are tackled in the draft zoning and that we're still fleshing out. Um this is not
a comprehensive list of all those components, but it it hits the highlights. So it covers you know what are the allowed uses in the area what are the maximum uh what are the height restrictions setbacks floor area ratio parking requirements open space requirements tree canopy site
circulation just to to name a few. So the transitoriented mixeduse district is um on the north side of Boilston Street. It's about 1,000 ft from the Chestnut Hill T station. Um, so we're really uh envisioning this as an urban
transit oriented subdist. Um, so we're considering increased density with limitations on the unit mix and size. Um this would be an area where we think it would be appropriate to have lower um vehicular parking, lower to minimal vehicular parking requirements, increased um bike parking requirements,
and that similar to the commercial subdists, which I'll go into detail in a few more slides, requiring um probably a lower threshold, but still having a requirement for a minimum amount of commercial space to be included in those um mixeduse development proposals as
well, just to capitalize on the um adjacency to the street in the purple. This is the neighborhood mixeduse subdist. So envisioning this more as sort of a neighborhood main street. Um this is a more modest uh
proposal in terms of upzoning that's uh more in scale with recent uh development in this area. Um there are two commercial subdists uh in so there's the commercial 3.0 which we're characterizing as sort of this
transitional commercial oriented block um the maximum proposed height 10 stories uh 3.0 know F. Um, and that's assuming that they meet the minimum amount of uh required commercial square footage, which there's another slide in a little bit that talks more
specifically about uh the mechanics of that requirement. Um and then uh if developers um meet uh so exceed the minimum requirement and meet sort of a second threshold in terms of um commercial included in a redevelopment proposal, they would be able to access
um the maximum bonus of 3.5 F um with the max of around 12 12 stories. The Chestnut Hill 4.0 district um which includes the Chestnut Hill Office Park area which we've discussed um previously in the select board updates. This is a high impact economic development
potential area um for the town. The depth um and size of these parcels are extremely unique in Brookline um and in our commercial areas. I would say the only other comparable sites um in terms of their economic development potential would be the stop and shop and the TJ
Maxx sites and those are half the size of the Chestnut Hill Office Park. Um so for the uh and sorry just to go back to this slide so for the 4.0 the um max F 4.0 know with a maximum height of
approximately 12 stories. If they meet the minimum commercial requirement, if they meet that higher threshold of the commercial percentage, um they'd be able to utilize the bonus which would be um maximum of 14 stories and 4.5 F.
The minimum recurs commercial requirement um that has been referenced several times. Um so the minimum is 51% of the gross floor area has to be commercial. So, in order to a core requirement in order to make use of the
special district overlay zone in the 4.0 is that your development proposal has to have at least 51% commercial use. Um, and then if a developer is able to get um beyond that and above 60% to pencil out um they'll have access to the bonus
height and F that we've built in as an incentive. We've also developed a mechanism um for developers to sort of roll over commercial square footage between phases um which we don't need to get into this evening. Um and then in terms of calculating the minimum
commercial requirement uh I did so this is sort of our um working template for uh how we would do that calculation. We have waited for uses that are particularly um attractive in terms of their ability to contribute to the commercial tax base like hotel for
example. We have assigned a greater weight to those uses in the calculation of um the commercial aspect of a redevelopment proposal. We've also added additional weight to small-cale retail speaking to um you know the the
neighborhood wish of of having more um independent small independent businesses that are more aligned with neighborhood needs. City realy's most recent proposal. Um so at the the last community advisory group meeting that I I referenced, we provided an update on the draft zoning and then
city re realy presented their most recent concept um for the Chestnut Hill Office Park. And so I'm just going to provide a broadstrokes update on that. Um so it's uh three buildings. Um you have a sevenstory residential
14story medical office with ground two levels of um ground floor retail two levels of um parking and you have a 14-story hotel um hotel and events and conference facility, luxury condo with ground
flooror retail um on the the bottom floor and the medical office building and the hotel building. um both the ground floor commercial um pieces of that will be oriented
towards a central plaza area here. So in terms of the site circulation there's um as in previous iterations there's no vehicular connection to heat street all the circulation is internal to the site. Um
what I I would want to point out is that based on the previous iterations which were the buildings had this orientation of um more east west running parallel to Boilston and Heath Street. A key difference is that they reoriented the building so they had more of a north
south orientation. Um the previous concerns when um with the uh west east orientation running parallel to Heath Street, there were concerns about sort of this wall effect along Heath Street in particular. Um and then also concerns about sort of
internal uh shadow impacts internal to the site um that would undermine the value of the green space that they were proposing at that time. Um so it does seem that the reorienting more this north south orientation has addressed a lot of those issues um and particularly mitigating the um impact of the
perceived height from the Heath Street perspective. So what I I would underscore is that city realy's most recent proposal is not in compliance with the town's most recent draft zoning. Uh there are still several uh components that we are
summarized on this slide. specifically the proposed step back requirements along Heath Street to sort of mitigate the impact of the height um open space and ground floor requirements that we're still working through. Um and we're looking to appropriately balance, you know, the concerns and interests of
neighbors, the town and developers. In terms of next steps, we do have uh community advisory. So this is the um previous timeline that we were just talking about with the addition of upcoming community advisory group meetings. Uh late October, November, and then mid December. Um we'll be
presenting updates on uh design guidelines, the transportation study, and our progress uh on the zoning to receive feedback um and direction. At the end, that's the end. A little more than 10 minutes.
Okay. Any questions from the select board? Paul, I have a couple of questions. Thank you, Meredith. Sounds like you've made a lot of progress. Um, it's been a lot of work. Uh, three quick questions. Um, one, why
don't I give you the three questions and you can answer them if you want. The first I wanted to understand affordable housing, how it's going to work, what's going to be on site, what might not be on site, and what may be a contribution to the housing trust fund. um what has been the the feedback from the community
um so far in this on this latest proposal? I'd be curious. And then you had mentioned the net tax increase is one of the goals. Do we have that kind of penciled out yet as to what this one would be? Yes, I think um we'll we'll take those
in reverse order. Sure. Um and I might in ter so it is our intention to do uh once we have a once we feel more confident in the scope of the zoning um to do sort of a ballpark analysis of what we think the potential uh in terms
of tax growth could be um you know given a certain set of assumptions under the the zoning overlay. I'd say most concretely at this point we do have uh the city realy uh development program and we do have a fiscal impact model um that we developed earlier on with our
consult on RKG which is also working on some of the comp plan work um and the fiscal impact model allows us to plug in different development programs and uh get an estimate of um you know considering the um additional costs of
that could be associated with the development what's the net fiscal impact of the development. Um, I guess I don't want to make I guess my question may have been more complicated. Can you just give me a range of a number of the net increase in taxes, not the fiscal impact?
So, I don't have that's that's on the to-do list, but I do think for uh well, I guess I would look at select member Rubenstein. Um, we're not giving a number yet range. Is that it? That's fine. That could be the answer. Um, so like Sam had said 15 million
originally. Oh. Oh. But my that's the answer from the staff. Yeah. So in in the conversations that I've had, I've been using the RKG model and you know uh fixing a couple of problems with it to align it better with the
program. Um uh that number has thus far been consistently over $5 million annually net of uh additional costs to the town. Okay. So, more revenue, subtracted costs. The the program for
the Chesnut Hill office park has been more than $5 million. Um, but it's been bouncing around a little bit as as their program has been changing. Mike, was that is that a net increase or is that what it would generate? That's a net increase. Oh, that's a net increase. Okay. So, that takes into I don't mean to corn you into a number.
So, No, no, no, no. I I I I rec I I'm putting out that $5 million number because in my work with both the staff and developers um that is a number that I am targeting to exceed. Okay.
Um and thank you working well there's one question answered and then the question regarding community input. Yeah. Just you know that I know there was a lot of feedback from the community uh on various iterations. Um, is this directionally
uh in line with support from the local community or are you still getting the level of push back that you were getting before? I so I I do think there something about the reorienting the north south connection and sort of how that um sort
of shifts the perception of the height and the density is uh was acknowledged as a step in the right direction. There are still a lot of concerns about the height and the density being considered. Um, so we're working through that, but I I think that we there has certainly been progress made um in terms of addressing
the neighborhood concerns. I'd also want to point out I should have mentioned this with the city realy um uh concepts that there they did also shift the height away from the western residential border towards Tully Street. Okay. So that's helpful. And uh then there
you'll also notice there's sort of the large vegetative border and sort of like a mini forest um at that corner which is going to be an important visual buffer um certainly for for the neighbors. Then the affordable housing question. The affordable housing um so I think
that's still a work in progress. Um providing affordable housing is a a priority certainly. I think the only very concrete conversations that we've had, you know, in consultation with the housing advisory board was several months ago and included in one of our select board updates where um the
housing advisory board indicated that they felt um it would be reasonable to um receive a a cash in loo um for the the condo piece. Um and and I think that's kind of as far as we've gotten with the details of the
affordable housing. Um, go ahead. Just a a question I have. You referenced the Ches Hill commercial area study report and it looks like that's going to get going in October from your first slide. Can you describe what that will
entail and how that will inform the various options presented with respect to small retail, hotel? I saw a brewery mentioned. Sure. So the report is going to be um packaging of all of the different study components that we were included on the
other slides. Um and so I think the the draft zoning would be included as sort of an attachment and an appendix to that report. Um and the I think the in anticipating town meetings consideration of the zoning.
We feel it's important that the draft report and all of the recommendations be finalized by the end of the calendar year um and sort of have a bow on all of that in early January so that people who are reviewing the war article proposal have the benefit of looking at the broader um vision and recommendations as
part of the Chesn Hill commercial area study to really understand how that zoning piece is facilitating a broader vision and set of goals for the area. Okay. Um, I have a question that's actually related to um concern that may
he may be overregulating success. Um, Newton's a city and that makes a big difference, but I always wonder why Newton's side of Route 9 is so vibrant
and our side is not. and the fact that they're city is probably one aspect of the reason, but I don't think it's all. Can you comment uh or give me some insight as to what I'm missing here? I
it's it's an interesting observation. I think I can the only thing that comes to mind is sort of the observation that um in terms of commercial activity and what uh Chestnut Hill Square, the street and um the Simon Mall is contributing to Newton's tax base. I think certainly you
could describe it as vibrant and impactful. I would also note that it's very car- centric and autooriented and it for the Chesn Hill commercial area study I think the direction and the focus is really on how do we um make
this a uh feel like a less car dominated place. Um because I think that the commercial area vibrancy that we're looking for in being realistic about the geometries that exist in our stretch of Route 9 and Brooklyn, um I we we really
have to um think through some strategies that uh would make the success of the area less dependent on the abundance of parking that those other developments have. So, so what you're saying is that we're willing to give up development in order
not to have as many cars around as as Newton allows. I I guess you know my concern is it can't be that you know that that I'm not sure where where I'm going here
but I I just don't think that it's a it's an adequate answer that Newton allows massive parking and therefore that is why they're what I call vibrant and we're not going to be able to get there because we're going to
restrict uh parking in an area that is not a neighborhood uh commercial district. I I don't um I don't know if I was trying to make a point, but I just to clarify if you're referencing the other
shopping areas, if you compare the amount of just surface parking that they have as part of those developments. Um, I think in terms of geometry and what developers had to work with, they um that was sort of a a benefit that the
Brookline properties don't have. Um, if you're looking at within the context of Brookline, the depth and dimension of particularly the 4.0 sites is very unique. Um, but that's really just within the context of Brookline. David, I was going to say something similar that I think the limitation we have is
the depth of those parcels. So the Newton side is extremely deep and it's beyond just our values about whether we're okay with surface parking or not for cars. There's just way more land on the other side. That's just one factor it seems to me. You know what are the other factors that
Newton is getting right that maybe I don't know maybe we're not getting right. Michael, well, one thing that I would add and I really commend uh the work on the zoning uh for this realization is that the
street is all basically owned by a single developer who has a a very large property and can organize a program over a very large space. Um and um on the Brookline side there is a less uh less
concentration of ownership um over large spaces. Some of it allows them to just add more parking but uh there are other benefits to common ownership over a very large space. And one of the things that we are trying to do um I think in the
zoning is um both to encourage the the common ownership of larger spaces. So for example um larger developers who are aggregating smaller properties into larger programs. um and
also to make sure that the designs of those spaces are designs um that lend themselves to larger areas. Um the second thing I would point out is that um the current zoning um which uh or the
chop side is restricted to office um I think has been pretty um limiting uh in terms of what can be developed there. So the work that has been done in this in this study um I think will unlock a lot
of opportunity within that space. Bernard I think you raise a really interesting point. Um I don't necessarily agree with it 100% but you're raising a point that a constraint a macro constraint is being put on the site which is to not be a car centric
right to be more walkable. Um and I and I'll use St. Mary's as an example. I've lived in St. Mary's now for eight years. Um I've seen its decline and I've seen its kind of rise from the ashes. Um the the local walkable businesses weren't
viable. There just wasn't enough business for the hardware store, right? There wasn't enough business for there just wasn't enough walking business in the neighborhood to make these small uh kind of mom and pop type of shops viable. Um until we had the density of
restaurants and remember we have we have St. Mary's te-top right there. We have we are on the sea line. Um and a huge number of students and population because of Fenway and and the colleges. Um we're getting a ton of traffic now. Foot traffic, bicycle traffic, car
traffic, and tea traffic which I don't think they have up in Chesnut Hills. So there is something to your point uh that I think we're placing a potentially placing a constraint and have a vision for something and if those neighbors and the butters don't actually shop, those
businesses won't survive. Um Mike, first of all, I would agree with you um that the vibrancy of the St. Mary's neighborhood is a is an example of lots of different modes of of transportation
all working together in order to add to the vibrancy of that space. Um, and I I would hope that the objectives of the Chesnale commercial area study is to provide uh a better level of balance uh
in order to add to the vibrancy of that area. Um and some of that is supplying um uh parking for cars and ability of cars to access that space and properly uh easily eress from that space as well
because there will be residences uh as well. Um the fact that we are uh allowing mixed use within that space also provides um more uh opportunity for vibrancy um as well as um
aspects of the design that integrate that area into the broader neighborhood. whether it is the tea, whether it is the neighbors to the west, uh, or cars coming from more distant locations.
Has there been any further discussion with Newton around a pedestrian bridge that would connect to the other side and that would allow people to potentially park on at the street and cross over by foot safely?
about that specific idea. No, I think we are gearing up for um conversations with Newton about opportunities to collaborate um on a vision for infrastructure improvements and how we can um partner to maybe work
with Mass DOT to get more priority and resources invested in um making it easier to go back and forth across Boilston. Yeah, just to add there the the the holdup here is not Newton, it's the state, right? You know, the state really controls and limits what we can and can't do. And
I think if we were to wait until such time as the state was ready to have that kind of conversation, we'd be waiting forever. Um it's it's not to say that we aren't having those conversations. We are. But they just move at a different pace than we do. Um and it's one of the
kind of tragedy of the commons problems or what is it joint not treasuries joint action problems right because Massachusetts doesn't allow communities to do joint projects. We can't for example do joint bonding with Newton for a project.
It's harder for us to do that kind of work. It's one of the areas that we have been internally talking with our legislative delegation about solutions for. But it's harder than it should be for communities in Massachusetts to work together to get infrastructure done. Well, I'm certainly not trying to suggest that
we wait. I definitely want this to go forward. My point is just as we're talking about the viability of businesses and the potential lack of parking, there is an abundance of parking on the other side. And so, I hope that there will be some parallel tracks pursued to try to get approval
for uh a safe crossing between the two sides. I think that would help immensely. Absolutely. And I mean it's it's a it's a it really is an ideal it would be any you know something above something below something better than what we have now. Um and that's going to be in that's
going to be in increments. It's not going to be overnight. You know we my guess is that we'll do work with the state to get the surface crossing in better shape than it is now. Then we can start talking about do we go under it? Do we go over it? you know, but that's going to take time and it's going to take action at the state level for us to
really be able to make a substantive long-term change. Um, I will just also note that one of the fiscal year 27 goals that we recently approved is actually to take on this
very issue. Uh, John, well, I think, you know, Bernard, I I think you're on to something. Uh but but I I I also think uh the answer is not um resistance to to parking or or wanting
to make it walkable. That's the the problem here. Um as others have said, um yeah, the street works because uh in large part it's it's a much bigger area than the area we're talking about here and most of it is parked. You know, we
can't do that here, you know. I mean, it's just the the whole uh area itself that we're working within is not big enough to get a reasonable amount of development to pay back um a company that spent $40 million for this
property. Um and also, um you know, provide for lots and lots and lots and lots of parking. Um so, what do we have? we have um a a a se section of Chestnut Hill, excuse me, that um isn't achieving
its full potential. Pretty clearly that is true. Um it would be more um open to possibilities, excuse me, if the ownership of the adjacent parking lot, there's this adjacent parking lot that runs along
Tully Street. if the ownership of that parking lot were brought into the process of planning um so that the area that's being planned would actually expand by the size of that Tully Street parking lot and then you could you know really talk about some some exciting
things. Um but so far that hasn't happened. So what do we do now? Um, what always mystifies me about these processes is we seem to start from the assumption that that that the developer needs us to tell the developer what is an
economically viable investment for the developer to make in in the property. I I I always assume investors um kind of have an idea of what would be an economically viable development or they wouldn't have bought the property. Um, and before you know it, the the
discussions get off track because the developer doesn't know if he has to say certain things or see or she to please, you know, the people who are showing up at meetings, even though the developer doesn't think those are actually very good uses for the property. And the public keeps sort of coming to the
meetings assuming that the future of this development hinges on, you know, um, them deciding what the development should be. And yeah, sure. We want to honor that as much as possible. I don't think I I live in this area. I lived in
this area ever since we lived in Brooklyn. I was on one side of Route 9 one in the beginning and then I was on the other side of Route 9 later. So, I know both sides very well. Um, I've actually ridden a bike to the Chestnut Hill uh that whole street area.
I think I'm probably the only person who's ever done that. Nobody walks to that to the street. Nobody takes their bike to the streets and it's not because they don't have enough bike infrastructure, you know, or enough pedestrian infrastructure. It's because it's not, it doesn't work that way. Um,
I hope the developer is not going to be shy about what the developer thinks is going to work. And I hope that we will to the extent that we can and still sort of satisfy the interests of all of the abuing properties. I I hope that we will
at least start from the assumption that if we tell the developer our idea for the development is something that the developer thinks is is not feasible economically, we're not going to get anywhere. And so we got to keep pushing towards, you know, what does the
developer say is economically viable for development of this parcel and how can we help the developer get there while at the same time respecting the wishes of of the neighbors. speech. Okay. Yeah. I would just say, John, that you
have uh very well articulated the balance of stakeholder interests that I think the staff is doing a commendable job. Um, and I would also add Mike Sandman as the chair of the committee um to balance the stakeholder interests of
the developer, the town and the neighbors and community members who uh have expressed those interests. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Matt. Next, uh, Chaz is going to talk about
the expenditure and revenue committee, updating us on some developments. Yeah, I want, you know, where that committee is headed. So, we head into the home stretch of the expenditure and revenue study committee work. um which is the nuts and bolts of
the key questions that you have asked it to answer which are what are the opportunities for additional revenue development in Brooklyn other than raising taxes? What are the opportunities for expenditure reduction modification for efficiencies?
And if there is to be a question on the ballot to the voters in May about asking them to raise their taxes, what does that look like? How big is it? What is it? What is it for? um and what is the explanation for why it's necessary? Um the committee has uh elected preliminarily to split into three
subcommittees to answer those questions and do the writing necessary to get a preliminary answer to you by the forecast date of December and have a full report out by the end of January. So that by that point um the process
then shifts to the select board um to uh and that's in advance of the budget book being published both the budget books for the school and the town so that if there is a recommendation for an override of some kind that the um we we
on staff have the knowledge necessary in order to put together a override budget and no override budget. what we do in those circumstances and then you have the ability as the select board to hold public hearings to hold whatever u process that you feel is necessary
before you need to make a final decision as to what goes on the ballot in March in mid-March um 60 days before the election um so actually early March um so um the expenditures and revenues
committee will split up into a group focused on the school side of the budget into a group focused on the pound side of the budget. Then, you know, and this is focused on the current met and unmet needs, the priorities of the bodies and what's being met and what isn't. And then there's a third group focused on
sort of the uh broader questions of how to um uh how to seek uh longer term uh revenue increases and expenditure uh reductions. Uh previously, there was a subcommittee that has almost concluded its work on the structure of the town
school revenue split. Um as you know uh we currently have a system where we have share every all the revenue dollars that come in except for to certain specialized funds come in. They are uh shared expenses are paid for first and
then the remaining money is split roughly 6040 currently more of like 5941 between the schools and then all the other municipal departments. Um there were some questions there about whether we should shift that model, whether we should change it in any substantive way,
whether we should shift to a model that just breaks all those things out. Um ultimately the recommendation was to keep the current sort of town school split model but to as much as possible
um where practicable um eliminate um sort of what they call the above the line expenses. Expenses that uh don't go directly into the budget of the town or the schools but are classified as shared expenses. Now there are some things for which that's not practical or a good
idea to do. For example, debt. Um, but there are some things where that's a good idea to do. For example, health care. And the reason why is currently we pay for healthcare as a shared expense. Which means that neither the town nor the schools when we hire or let someone go realize how that impacts our bottom
line because we don't see it in our budget. It's already paid for. And all we see is the potential for the reduction in revenue as opposed to actually seeing the impact. And shifting this over actually in our current model will give the schools a slight benefit in their budget since the town is actually currently somewhat the
beneficiary of this relationship. We get a little bit more of a benefit than the schools do from having that as a shared expense. We talked a bit about shared services. This remains, you know, frankly a point of contention between the town and the schools. Um, you know, I but I will say that, you know, both
the superintendent and I are committed to having those conversations and working through them. um figuring out what's working and what isn't in terms of how we provide services, how town departments provide services to the schools uh and how those things are then reflected on the town side. Um you know,
I know there was great progress made with uh the rec department taking on adult and community education. That's a big success story. Um but you know, that's one of many areas where we need to have revised and up-to-date guidelines on what services are provided
and who pays for them. Um so that work needs to be done and needs to be you know the focus of our attention um as we go to as we potentially go to the voters and have and provide you know provide
them if we're to ask you know if if the town is to ask the voters for additional funds I want us to be confident that we are at least moving in the right direction in terms of shared services that we're not leaving money or on the table or having these situ situations where it's unclear what the role what
the roles and responsibilities of the various parties are. So updating all of those memoranda of understanding having clear functions set forth is a priority certainly on the town side and I know on the school side as well. I just think it's a question of what are those
services. Um so that's the that's the update in terms of where we are. Um, I will say that I think one of the and and I will say that the um the school the team on the staff side of the school uh schools have
really been working um under very difficult circumstances you know with an interim superintendent coming in in the middle of this process really not having leadership senior leadership around having you major turnover in that uh in that office losing some of the support
staff that they relied on to do some of that work. So, I just want to acknowledge the incredibly hard work that the superintendent Bella Wong and the deputy superintendent Susan Given have done um in doing their best to both one open the schools on time and two
address the serious issues involved with at this committee. Um they have the committee has submitted a number of specific questions about school related projects and issues that have been identified that track the CLA report um that came out in the spring which you
know which the select board paid for um and the schools are providing a response to those questions at the next ENRSC meeting which will be early next week. Um we postponed it from Wednesday because of the holidays. Um and then I think from there the big question on the
school side is going to be what is a level funded budget? What is actual what is what and what does that mean? Um when we talk about level funding do we mean doing nothing different? Do we mean proceeding with the sort of services that the schools want to implement
particularly the what they call the stepped approach? you know, that allows for in-classroom um interventions for students that need additional help short of um special education plans. Um you know, does that mean implementing the
literacy um curriculum that the schools are trying to move forward with um as they've implemented the math curriculum? Um those are the kinds of questions that the school subcommittees are going to answer. On the town side, the question is going to be about comparable communities. you know what the how our
costs have increased compar compared to other communities. Um what the source of the overages in certain departments are. Um you know we continue to look obviously at overtime and public safety. Um we look at the cost of um uh roadway
work uh in the department of public works because we know that those are community priorities and the questions there are going to be you know where where are the opportunities for efficiencies uh and then what are the community's priorities in that regard
right now in the initial outlay of the community priorities that I laid out to the expenditures and revenues committee at the end of the summer the focus was on public safety uh restoring the cut, not the cut positions, the held open positions. Those positions are not cut, but we're realizing savings from them in the
police department. um controlling the fire overtime budget. Um and then uh dealing with uh roadways and um sustainability in the Department of Public Works and where possible also addressing um the um issues identified
in terms any remaining issues identified in terms of pay disparity um particularly within the um the classes that currently don't have steps within the Department of Public Works or the salary is flat and there's no opportunity advancement. Um but that's
part of a broader analysis that was conducted of the public works budget um that's going to take more time to phase in. So all of those things are on the table on the town side. Um in addition to you know the maintenance what we call the maintenance of effort. Um, right now
based on the healthcare numbers and everything else that we're looking at, the gap, the projected gap between revenues and expenditures on the town side, assuming we did nothing different, is around 3.5 million. Um, that's up from 3.2 million earlier in the year. We
expect that to go up again. Again, healthc care is just the runaway driver of costs here. Um, we're looking at another banner year of healthcare cost increases. Um and you know it's a compounding problem. Um we really are um
struggling with our health care costs. Um and there's no immediate relief in sight from the state or elsewhere. Um we are also looking frankly at a tough environment with our grants. We heard this weekend that our UASI allocation has been reduced significantly by the
federal government. Um we've heard on the uh emergency services side that the mass uh MIMA administered grants that passed through from the federal governments have been reduced. Um which has an impact on things like cert you know our emergency our volunteer
emergency response teams. Um all of that plays a part um in what any sort of final recommendation is here. Um, the reason why I wanted to bring this update to you was because I wanted to one hear your thoughts, concerns about any of the
foregoing, but two, just raise the um raise the issue that one of the things that may come out of this are conditional recommendations from the expenditures and revenues committee. That is to say, we recommend you put an override on the ballot if the schools in
town agree to do X, Y, and Z. um you know for example if the town and schools are able to come to an understanding with regard to shared services if the town and the schools um are able to you know implement the the findings of the CLA report. Um I will say we've made
significant progress towards a memorandum of understanding which was contemplated as the next step and I again I want to thank the superintendent for her work on that. um we should have a document ready to present to you in the next two weeks, I'd say, um reflecting the CLA report and the recommendations there. And then in the
fall, um the director of the office of student services is going to present to the school committee on the issues that were identified in the CLA report regarding special education and student services there, what's been done to correct for those issues and how to prevent the um issues identified in the
report going forward. So, I think in all those areas there's trending in the right direction. I just want to be uh clear um to the select board that it's entirely your call what goes on the ballot and why um and what the
conditions of that ballot access are. So, as we move towards as we on staff work with this committee to move towards a potential recommendation, um I and as you remain tuned into this, we welcome any feedback that you have in terms of
what you're seeing, what you're hearing, what you need to hear from us, um and what the potential caveats or conditions uh on any ballot question would be. Um I would also just flag one last piece of great news which is that we were
selected um by the Harvard Kennedy School Field Lab uh as a project um for them. So we now have support from a number of uh masters in public policy students um who are going to be working with us on the structure and layout of any potential override. Um, for example,
uh, looking at past practice with regard to is it a cafeteria override where you have a number of questions on the ballot for certain things. Is it a single question override, which is what Brookline has usually done? Is it a pyramid structure override where you say vote for question 1A or 1B, which is
what we had last time, question 2A passed and 2B did not. Um so um they're going to be doing some deep digging into that um and into the strategies for um how such a you know how such things are
messaged um so both a look at the data uh the processes and the outcomes across other communities. So that's the update on that front. Thank you for your time and I welcome any thoughts you have. Any questions or comments? John? Well, I
was going to say tell the academic team if they want to know, you know, or a case study of how sometimes bundling questions on a ballot can lead to disaster. Yeah. Uh they need to look no
further than bundling of a couple of uh bonded debt items a few years back. Um, and that be that can if you're not careful become the issue. It's like if I like this but not that, why do I have to
vote for both? Right? I'll just show my displeasure by voting against the whole thing, you know, and that's the only way I can show my displeasure. So, it can be dangerous. Um, this is a hypothetical question and I don't want to be misunderstood um in
asking it. Um but uh I if the if the schools came to us um at the end of this process and said we really have to have uh an override for our purposes. Um would would we ever, you know, just say
that's their business, you know, let them put an override on um regardless of whether we think, you know, they've done their job. Uh um how much autonomy do they have to try to meet their own needs by accessing the
ballot for override money? None. None. None. Right. Okay. You are you are you are the only people who decide what goes on the ballot. But we we can hardly um expect to uh say
we've you know we've dealt with them fairly if you know we won't allow them access to the ballot. And that's why I think that the this committee process is so important. The comedy of it, you know, we got comm sometimes there's comedy with a D, but
come with a T um is so important. You know, we have to stay engaged together in this the town and the schools, the select board and the school committee. If if we if we just fall to fall to pieces, if we go back to our corners and if we're at loggerheads with each other,
it's not going to work. Um it's it's you know we've we've got to we've got to listen to one another and hear the needs. And I think that's an area for example you know I think the school leadership the the staff team has done a
good job of communicating with our staff on our side about the issues they identified in the special education world and how they've been resolving them. Um and then kind of the message that we've been giving in return is this is great and now community needs to hear how that work is being done so that the
confidence can be restored and we can do that in such a way that people if there's that question on the ballot people feel confident that okay the schools are the schools have their housing and it's the same thing on the town side. You know we have to demonstrate to the community if we're going to ask for an additional
amount of revenue from property taxes that we're good stewards of that money. um that we're not sending good money after bad. Um and so that's our, you know, that's our commitment. Um but it requires us to work together. We really do, you know, it's not there's
not a town side and a school side to this argument. There is a community side to this argument. Um, and it's just there are two separate elected bodies that have to figure out how to make that case to the community that what the about what their needs are
and whether or not a ballot question is the right way to go about it. And and this is my only other question. Um, when I when I discuss this with people in general and I'll say to them, well, you know, it remains to be seen. Uh
yeah, yeah, it looks like we might have a a ballot override question in 26, but maybe not till 27. And people's reaction, no. Are you kidding? It's not going to they're not going to wait till 27. We keep hearing that it's we need it now. Yeah.
Um so they they sort of feel like it's already been decided. There's going to be an override question. Has it already been decided? No, but I do think it's more likely than not. I've said that in the past and I just so I'm not trying to hide the ball there, but I ultimately, you know, I also want to be respectful of the fact
that again that the buck stops with you. You know, if you're not satisfied that the work hasn't been done, that the work has been done to justify that, then we shouldn't expect to have something on the ballot. Um, and that's the level of confidence that
I want us to have coming out of this. I don't want I don't want this to be an idle exercise and where at the end of the day someone says, "Oh, you know, this is the number that will make us feel better about our budget." Like, no, we've got to we've got to justify what we're asking for and we've got to demonstrate that we're going to be good
stewards of that money if that's what we're asking. Oh, did you have your hand up? Yeah, I did. Thank you, Bernard, and thanks, Chaz, for for for the update. Um, so I guess the first I'm going to have a couple of points, but I'm I'm going to ask a question. I want to make sure that I understand this. Um, and I'm
going to do it in the form of a question. The revenue expense study committee is not going to filter information to us or options, right? They're not a decision body. They're not a recommendation body. They are an analytical body that says XYZ.
These are the these are the CR, you know, the factors. These are whatever. Um, and if you know, I'm going to make something up, but let me just first ask. Sure. The revenue expense study committee is not filtering to us. No, it's so it I do think it is a
recommendations making body. It is tasked with providing you with a recommendation. Yeah. But it is not going to do that by g you know it's it's going to be providing you the data and the materials for Yeah. So I would want the the revenue expense study committee to make a to make a vote on the accuracy of the data.
I wouldn't want the revenue expense study committee to take a vote on whether we should have an override or not because you've got a mix of people in there, anti-ax people on that group and protax people. So, I don't think that it should be a raise your hand uh
type of vote on, you know, should we put this operating override for the schools forward or for the town forward to the select board. It should be do we believe that this this information is accurate to the best of our knowledge and due diligence. Um, I do not want that
committee selecting my options for me uh as a board member and I hope they wouldn't select the options by filtering information to this board. Well, they're not going to select our options, but they are going to make a recommendation because the committee is analyzing the data
and determining whether it's accurate, right? As opposed to us getting all this data that Well, that's what I'm saying. Exactly. And then us trying to analyze it, right? So So let me let me take it I'll peel the onion a little bit further so you can get it where I'm getting at. So
let's take the town side for instance, right? Our costs are growing at a certain rate and our ability to raise revenue is capped at two and a half%. I know some sometimes it's three, right? Plus growth. So sometimes it's like 3% I
think is on average. Um I would hope that the committee would say we have validated the efficiency gains. We have validated the potential revenue in the future. We feel it's in line with expectations. These are the costs. We
vetted the cost numbers. And I'm just going to make up imaginary numbers, very low numbers. you know, um I I if if our costs grow as currently planned without any changes, it's going to be I'm making up just funny numbers, $100, right?
That's what our budget is. Um and our ability to raise revenue would limit us to $95 because that's two and a half. And the select board would then have an option. Do we want to make up that gap and put that in front of the voters and make a case for it? and that helped them
understand that if we didn't raise that money what the consequences would be right these this this would be the the consequences of service cuts I would want to do the same thing on the school side so when I say that I I I'm hoping that the study committee will present I
want them to confirm that we've identified the efficiency gains we've confirmed the revenue growth we've confirmed the expense numbers um and this is what the trajectory is and if you select board you can decide to put something on the ballot or not. Um, but
you know, we need the information to be able to provide it. What I don't want to have happen is the committee to go the school spends too much money. They've been spending too much money for decades. We're they want 10 million. We're going to only give them five.
That would be detrimental to the credibility of that committee. And I would hope that that information would flow directly to us and not filtered. Not what we're doing. Okay. Understood. Uh, Michael.
Um, so I have a couple of sort of more detailed oriented questions and then I want to make a comment on what Paul was talking about just to understand the process a little better. Um, so first of all, thank you um for
the report and please thank the committee for all of their work. um when you were talking about um efficiencies and potentially cons consolidated services, I've heard of things like you
know legal or IT etc. Um and I am aware that some of the concerns about that consol potential consolidation on the school side has to do with the level of service that they might get from the consolidated services. Y. So my question is, has there been any
discussion about implementing service level agreements as either as part of the memorandum of understanding or um um or in developing consolidation processes?
Um and are those service level agreement discussions if they are occurring helping to assuage any the concerns that come with consolidation? Yes and no. Um I would say this is a matter of building trust, right? And I
think it's it's also just a matter of and being able to demonstrate that we're not doing this because it's the way it's always been done. We're not doing this to maintain structures that aren't working. It's about, you know, assuaging that fear, which I think is a legitimate one of, you know,
if we don't control, if we don't have any sort of, you know, meaningful ways of controlling this, then we're going to get ignored, um, or our priorities aren't going to be respected or we're going to have to jump through unnecessary hoops to do basic things that we want to do that we view as core
as core mission. So, I hear that from school committee members. I hear that from school staff. I hear that I I hear that message loud and clear. And so my goal on this is to demonstrate the utility of this by building that trust. And so where we're actually starting is
we're starting small. We're starting with a project to be build a working group to unify our MUNS activities. Munis is our financial system of record. Um and for a while now we've had all sorts of different users in there. You know, the schoolside operations and the townside operations have gotten better.
Um, but there's still a gap between how we use the system and when we don't use the system, how it how we talk to each other, how we verify all those things. And again, trend in the right direction, but we need to do more. And so I've said to the superintendent is, you know, I'll sit in whatever meeting
you need me to sit in. You know, if you're concerned that you're not getting the results you need from town staff, then let's escalate it. Let's make it happen. Let's make sure that you feel confident that your needs are being heard and addressed. Yeah, but also
let's get those on paper. Let's let's put that out there so that we have a clear understanding of what it is that you need, what it is that you need and what it is that we can and can't provide. Um because it's also, you know, I think on our side, the team has really done great work. You know, for example,
Fang Yang, our IT director, um was, you know, did the deep dive necessary in thinking about, you know, we have two different entire systems of um we have two different operating platforms. the schools use Google and the town uses Microsoft and you know I looked at that
and said well why do we do that that's you know it seems to me that that would be a way that's that's a waste and fun has done the deep analysis on it and says well you know realistically when you factor in the cost of adaptation the cost of rebuilding this out the cost of
the licenses it's roughly the same um so you really have to think about the efficiencies in terms of security and technology um but not necessarily dollar value when you think about shifting either the schools to Microsoft or the town to Google um which I think would
probably be the more likely option as much as I hate to say it since I'm a Microsoft I'm more familiar with the Microsoft ecosystem um but you know it's what it's what it's it's not about what I want it's about what works best right so so the fact that you said and get this on paper yes is is very
important and I would lift up and encourage that that is the same goal. Same goal. Um so that was question number one. Question number two was um you didn't talk about uh ARPA funding and the fact that that funding is
sunsetting. Yes. um in terms of the override and necessary programs and I'm wondering whether um whether that sunsetting of ARPA is being incor how that sunsetting of ARPA funding is being
incorporated into the question of revenues. Great question. We are incorporating that in there. I will say and not to pat ourselves on the back but maybe a little bit. We have done better than most communities in terms of not putting operating expenses into ARPA. So whereas
other communities are facing a larger ARPA cliff than we are at the end of calendar year 26, ours is around $400,000. And of that, some of that is for example, you know, our budget analyst position. That's because that's our, you know, our ARPA specialist position. So
that's a significant chunk of that money. Um the other big things on there are um you know payments for some of the hybrid services that we we receive um our Zoom licenses. So it's not nothing um but we and we are taking that into account factoring in what a potential
the contours of any potential override ask or efficiencies would look like. Okay. Um thank you. Um, so the comment that I wanted to make to feed on top of what Paul was saying, um, in terms of what the ballot question, what a ballot question might be, um, I've sort of
heard two different things that I appreciate clarification on. One is the idea that we might go to the voters um for an override that seeks to support critical programs and name those
programs uh specifically, you know, such as, you know, the world language program in past years or the sport the afterchool athletics program or something else within the town, the roadways budget for example. Um and the
other thing that I heard from Paul's explanation is um you know there's there is the level of revenue that we can get and then there is the level of the increase in our costs and there is a gap um and if we don't fill that gap then that has ramifications across our entire
budget. So the question I have is in terms of of how you're making recommendations on the budget or how you're thinking about how we talk about this to the community that seems like two very different messaging styles,
right? Um and do do you have opinions or are you coming up with recommendations? Um this may not be a data analysis question. This may be a marketing
question uh in terms of how to talk about whether this is an override that's intended to support the entire budget or an override that is intended to support specific critical programs in the presence of increasing costs across the
budget. And I really think it's going to be more the latter than the former. Right? I view this as more of a meat and potatoes style situation or a keeping the lights on situation. Pick your metaphor. You know this is a we are what we are facing is a continuity of service problem right
if if if we don't come up with the revenues in some way either by reducing expenditures or increasing the capacity of revenue that we bring in we run the risk of cuts um and that's a very real risk and we wouldn't necessarily in the process of the ballot initiative
identify those cuts as we would we would absolutely identify those cuts um you know I because we have to right in the event that an override doesn't pass, right? And that's that's our budget. Um, so and that's what we go to town meeting with, right?
Um, and so you know what that would be it would be very we would make that case as clear. You know, it's a negative case unfortunately. It's a if we don't do this then this will happen, right? Um, the positive case is more complicated. You know, I think last the
last override that passed was a was a mix of being able to say, "Look at all the good things we can do and also, you know, particularly on the school side, but on the town side, too, there was $500,000 in that override for continuity of service." Um, you know, look at what we would have to lose in the event that
we didn't do this. Um, this is more this is we're we're just in a different position than we were, particularly again with those drivers and cost. So, I don't want people to feel as though you're looking at a situation where, oh, we're going to get all these great new
things out of a potential override. I don't think that's the case. I think what little would remain in terms of the anything beyond continuity of service would be for critical things like public safety, like public works. Um, with that
said, obviously all of that filters through your priorities. Um, and so, you know, the area that I've been, you know, hammering on in particular is sustainability. Um, you know, the benefits that we reap from having a well-developed sustainability division,
I think are worth the investment. Um, and I think it's a message that I've heard from you and the community that's of importance. um that we have that well-developed service that then provides those dividends while also creating the positive externality of
fossil fuel free moving towards fossil fuel freedom. Um so that's an area where I think you make the positive case but you also unfortunately you know then are on the negative side of saying we don't you know we've been very fortunate to have the capacity that we've had um
thanks to ARPA the generous anonymous donation all of those things to get to where we are now and now we need to figure out what the long term you know we have we have the we have a clear we have a clear message in terms of how successful it's been um and what this
what the future success looks like and then we just need to make that case if that's the case we're making to the voters. Got it. Thank you. David, you talked about looking at efficiencies with the school department and specifically uh Munice and Office of
Town Council. Uh what about HR? Where does that stand? And are there any other efficiencies you've been exploring? We are we already do some um sharing of services with HR that's going to be important to codify. for example, some of the benefits work that we do um is uh
is shared. Um HR is is unique. You know, we've done some digging into this. Um I I I agree with the school department. We don't want to be in a situation where we're, for example, hiring teachers where where the town side is also dealing with the hiring and discipline of teachers. That's a very more that's a
that's a complex subset of HR that we're not equipped to handle. Certainly not at our current staffing levels. But in terms of where there are duplication of efforts in terms of benefits administration and so forth, yes, we are looking at efficiencies there.
Okay. Thank you, Jazz. Thank you. Yes. Next, uh we have some warrant articles articles to hold public hearings on. first warrant article 14 resolution regarding contact information for public
officials and I see Regina Frolley is volunteering to be the person speaking for that uh Regina Frolley town meeting member constable for the town of Brooklyn resident
public and it's really geared only to elected officials I'm not including all officials. It's about elected officials. Um the desire is that what many call a no-brainer that if you
ask people for their vote, you should also be easily accessible to them to answer their concerns or meet their needs in the future. So when I was first elected as the constable um in 2019 as I
recall we were on the town website and until this January I had no idea that allegedly for years I haven't proven yet but they claim since 2021 we were taken off the town website. Um,
one of the constables noticed that, but my concerns are broader than that and and that I've run it by the state ethics commission and and they're on board with this that this is about all elected officials because
you are elected by the public and you're responsible for those even you who didn't elect for you, residents, etc. because you're you're elected officials and you should be available. they should ring your phone and say um a tree fell
on my street and nobody's doing anything about it and hope that you would help them get that service. So we each as elected official have our missions that we are responsible for and the the issue of constable is merely because that's where the evidence came that it wasn't
happening that not all elect officials were on on the town website. So, and because e emergencies do happen, not just trees falling, but but emergency court cases that are done I've dealt with one myself where suddenly it had a
there was an emergency even on a holiday had to a judge had to come in and handle a situation uh a human situation. They needed a constable to be able to serve those papers. So, it's that simple. Um the as you know the subcommittee last
night voted for it but they had one amendment. They don't want your addresses of the actual physical home addresses. Um I have rather reluctantly agreed to it because I think that they should be able to come
with a a a poster in front of our house and complain if we're not doing our job. I mean I really I really think it's over overreached and worrisome and unnecessarily so but fine but the phone
contacts will be there and the um email address for those who access the internet there are we have residents very highly educated residents who do not have the internet so the phones do have to to be there for them to reach
you so that's pretty much it um We are declared there's a mystery as to why this ever happened because we are according to the state ethics commission in 1971 the board of selectman then declared us municipal special municipal employees
and that is always geared toward conflict of interest. So in other words, there's more latitude because you need the services for your community in this case constral uh could be other other elected officials um and that they're
given a certain latitude for uh the so-called conflict of interests that um in order to provide it because this the need for the service is greater than the potential for the conflict of interest. Now that would not include egraious
fraudulent behavior on the part of somebody but it definitely is most of the the fact that you just uh can charge fees for your services does not constitute a conflict of interest under under this law. So we have in the audience two of the other co-etitioners
and I don't know if they'd like to add something um before you have questions. uh Joe Figler, who's the most experienced of all our uh constable for sure. Um and Arthur Conquest, who's not
a constable, but he cares about public process. Okay, any questions? Just a quick one. Thanks, Regina, for bringing this up. Um I never thought of googling myself and see if where if I was on a low I am because they call me
that about rats and trees and all the other stuff. Um but it is a but it is a um it is a a good point you make under the um and I don't know why they disappeared if you're saying they were around before but under the town clerk uh section of the website there is a
state and federal elected officials enlist everybody. seems like it wouldn't be very complicated to add our other local elected officials, but I'm not sure if that would be a big uh a hard thing to do, but it seems like a
reasonable thing to do. And so, I think you happen to touched on something that seems to be correct. We should be publishing, you know, elected officials. Doesn't the uh clerk currently list the town meeting members who are elected? Of course, they're on this on the uh town website.
Yes. Yeah. Okay. out of the team site though. Is that the town site or is that the town meeting's office? Um and uh no the it's important to know we're talking about the town website the official town website. Okay. So separate from the clerk. Yeah. Mhm.
Um any uh um first of all thank you for bringing the thank you for bringing this forward. Um I had a couple of questions. Um so section 3.4 four of the general bylaws, which I'm sure you're familiar with, um,
outline the roles and responsibilities of the town clerk. Um, and this section already contains um, other uh, routine functions such as sending notices to people um, according to resolutions passed by town meeting. So, I'm curious
why you made the choice to structure this as a resolution as opposed to a bylaw change for section 3.4 for to require the town clerk to take this action. Absolutely. Uh contrary to some perceptions, I'm actually very well
trained in diplomacy and one builds up structurally. And so I started with inerson meetings. I in March sent a letter to town council that was never responded to asking
simply for the legal foundation. something if if it turned out there was a legal foundation that would be the end of it. Um and then I met with uh our town uh state rep rather and we talked about um whether this should be binding
and I decided it should be a resolution of good faith. It's about good faith negotiating if you will and everybody should be in good faith and right now I am and I hope that you are and um my goal though is to get a commitment from the
board of selectmen that this will be protected going forward that that this will be a policy decision that only you can make that that elected officials will be uh on the town website so people can find the people they vote for.
Yeah. So the one of the reasons I asked this question is because the town clerk is also an elected official. Um and their duties are are prescribed in that section of the bylaw. And you know as a
in order to get the commitment that I think you are seeking and um I support um I I I think it being clear in their roles and responsibilities that is actually a an easier
um um result to maintain over time. Um you know the town clerk may change, the select board members may change. Um, so, um, from my perspective personally, um, I think I think, uh, converting this
resolution into a actual bylaw change, um, would actually make things easier and more consistent and clear over time. Um, so I appreciate your diplomacy. Um, and I, um, also appreciate the need for clarity over time.
Um so my second question uh specifically has to do with the question um the determination of contact information. Um when I read the article I didn't see any specific definition of what contact information um was to be specified and
you had mentioned in your remarks that addresses would not be included though I will note that addresses are included in the TMMA list which includes all of this. That's not my wish. That was the amendment last night. Fair enough. Um, but do you have
thoughts on like what who should be the body that determines what contact information is provided since it's not specified in the in the resolution? I you it may not seem to be specified,
but it's generic. It's people need to be able to contact you which is why I prefer also the address be there because some people can walk up to your door right uh by not putting the address unfortunately this this is again one of those
questions where I think clarity is actually helpful in specificity. So, um, if you accept an amendment that that is negative that says we do not include addresses, uh, I think it would be helpful for everybody's understanding to
include the things that we to specify the things that we do include. All the discussion has been a, uh, email address and a phone number that they actually can reach you at. I think that including those in the resolution would be helpful.
I can't I'm not sure that the mo will call him but I'm not sure he'll allow it because he might perceive that as expansion. I just don't know. But from the beginning that's all we've ever said. I think I think the motor is usually pretty generous with resolutions
resolutions. He can be. Okay. Uh, John, just to point out something because I I this is a a really uh important um question and and I'm grateful to Regina for raising it. Uh at the same time, I
think it's a little bit more complicated than people might immediately perceive. Um, for example, um, even though on the page that contains the names of the members of the select board, um, on the Brooklyn website,
uh, my name and the other members names are are listed, but not their phone numbers, not our phone numbers. If I Google search the question, how do I reach John Vanco, member of the Brooklyn Select Board, my name and my address and my email address and my phone number
come up because there's a directory um that is embedded um somewhere on the town website. So, in a sense, if what is true for me is true for the other members of the board and for all a lot of other people on boards and
commissions, we've already done it, you know, and so I'm a little confused as to the status of things. I we actually argued last night and uh it was universally accepted that when you run for elective office and you're on the ballot, your address is there.
Right. Right. Your full address is there. So we most of us did not see a reason in the original u just before they took a vote before somebody raised the question of the address they were all happy with having all of it there you're going to
have to ask them why they why they think it's okay but I guess anyway just to move it along I certainly said well I won't fight it but yeah yeah yeah but if if you're out there asking people for your vote and in order to do that it's out there who you are where
you live what might imply apply your B your biases or your reason why you might like whether you live on one side of Route 9 or the other side of Route 9. As you talked about, there could be could be uh reasons for knowing what your about what your purposes are.
And people should be able to say, "Hey, you either did it or you didn't or I'd like you to do it." They should be able to find her and they should be able to find all elected officials. And that was what they called a no-brainer last night.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Any further discussion? Let's open up the public public hearing. Yes. Now that the chair has opened up the public hearing, there were no individuals who signed up in advance of the meeting. If there's anyone online who wishes to speak on war article 14,
please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature or if in the room, please make your presence known. There are five individuals in the room, 16 online, and no one is indicating their desire to speak. Okay, let's close the public hearing. And um what do you want to do?
Vote now or Well, actually, I don't think we can vote now because we we don't really have a final warn art and and not including addresses is very important to me. And we live in a period of time when um you know people can find
your address one way or another. But um we should be aware of the fact that uh that has some risk. So in truth there is I'd like to you know defer the vote until we have a final uh resolution.
Well, the fact that the constables themselves, what I would I would argue the third most risky elected or appointed job in town after the fire department and the police, the constiples go out there and they they're at risk when they do certain services
and we don't mind having our addresses. That's all I can say about that. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it seems like the the purpose of this resolution is to uh help compel the town clerk to be able to provide this
information. So, you know, I agree with you both that, you know, if you use the internet and want to search for this information, you're going to be able to find it. But it's really a question for those people who want the town to support a standard process through the clerk that that's where this resolution
has value. Um, right. And and you know, individuals could if they they could opt in to have their address published or opt out to not have their address published was through the town clerk. Sure. Right. I do think you were sent the the final
wording that of the amendment. I believe that was sent. I was online last night when she sent it. So, I'm pretty sure you got it. Maybe you didn't find it, but you got it. And it was approved by the moderator currently as an amendment. Could we have a better understanding about what the
requirements are for publication of addresses? So when you're on the ballot, your address appears period. Is that the full extent of it in terms of publication of address? Beyond that, municipalities have choice. That's my understanding. All the town
council is online. Um did you have a chance to see all the examples? I zeroxed and yes, most people have the full number and address for just about every elected office in any community I was able to
research. So, um I Joe Callan, town council, I understand David's question was about um if you're an elected official and um your name and address is on the ballot um you know, would that be a problem uh repeating that information on the
website? No, it is. It wouldn't be. But also there's kind of an obligation to have um some type of form of contact for elected officials. This is the first amendment right to um red petition and redress your grievances. So you need some way of being able to get in touch
with your elected officials. I think this issue and Ben Kaufman is much more familiar with issues related to constables. Um the issue was whether we could connect on the town's website their business addresses like their business website. um and that we can't
do. But if it's strictly, you know, giving their name and address or name and email or email or or phone number, that is certainly something we can do. And as one board member pointed out, we do that for the federal uh elected officials. But we point out their office address. We don't point out their
campaign address, for example. Or their personal address. Or their personal address. Right. Yeah. And a Google voice number. But our elected officials don't have offices like that. They're uh select people. You're you're
literally just people that organized in order to keep things orderly in the town. That's what representative town meeting was all about to begin with. I had an office until the busy be closed. I thought it was open again. Not yet. It's coming back.
Okay. So, what are we going to going to do here? Um, could we um I we usually vote on these things the next Okay, we'll do it next time. Yeah, I'm inclined to support it, but it would be to see if there's any more changes that come just Yeah. to get and I know Michael, you may want to
get a little bit more specific. Yeah. Yeah. So, but if you do need it to eventually be a bylaw, whether it passes or not, there's also the court to go through because there is some issue here that that you're denying people the right to know
who their elected officials are. I told you I researched I I appreciate your diplomacy. Yeah. Um I I'm just looking at the the version in in version 10 of the packet and and I don't see where the specifics of the contact information are
enumerated. If they are um and if they are then please let me know where. That's all. Hey, can you u identify where I think the goal if you see it's 24 hours is one of the uh requirements also be available at the clerk's office by
any staff member because currently they're not doing that but the 24 hours is important because things do come up and that's the website then some communities I don't know if I if you went through it enough and I think I did print that out there's at least one
community the their website refers you to the local police who will give you that information on a 24-hour basis. So they they make it very clear on their website that if you want to find these people, the police will be able to provide it at any time of the day or
night. We're not like that. Okay, that wasn't my question. My question was what is the contact information that is being provided? It does that that does not seem to be you have to ask yourself what what what
would the contact be for you let's it's whatever it takes to contact you question okay it's generic and it's inclusive so Michael I'm wondering if maybe for our next time if you have some specific language that you'd like to tweak run it
by the moderator and bring it and see if there's some enhancements okay but I my sense is you're supporting this you just want it to be a little bit more specific that's Gotcha. Okay. Thank you. I'll send up smoke signals if you prefer to be contacted that way. But thanks.
Thanks, Michael. Warrant article 19, resolution regarding the use of the 25th Amendment to remove Donald Trump from office. Mr. Margolus, tell us how we're going to do this as a select board for a town.
Thank you. uh John Margolus, town meeting member, precinct 7, and also a library trustee. Neither of which are particularly relevant here except as a citizen. Um you have probably heard
people who've said that if Donald Trump were your grandfather, you'd take away the car keys. Well, Donald Trump is a grandfather who has the keys to nuclear weapons. Uh, I think it's at least a matter of
debate as to whether he has the mental capacity to continue as president of the United States. Fortunately, the 25th amendment provides a mechanism for dealing with situations in which a president
lacks the capacity to continue in office. Whether it's mental or psychological capacity or physical capacity, uh the vice president and a majority of the cabinet
can move the president temporarily. the president can then seek to be to get back into office and it goes to Congress and if Congress does not support that then the president is permanently removed. Um this resolution calls upon
the vice president and the cabinet to move under the 25th amendment to remove Mr. Trump from office. Now people who believe that he is of sound mind will vote against this resolution. People
may have no opinion. That's fine. But this is an opportunity for Brooklyn to speak out at a time when there are a great many of us who believe strongly that Mr. Trump lacks the capacity to continue in office. And I'm not talking
about politics. I don't know that there's a single issue that I agree with Mr. Trump about. But this is simply the the relatively narrow question. Is he competent to remain in office?
That's what this is about. Any discussion? Michael, will you have your hand up? Sure. Um, so [Music] I don't know whether you expect this resolution to lead to the removal of the
president. Um, I don't. Um, but I'm curious as to what is your goal in asking town meeting to adopt this resolution and what is your broader strategy for reaching that goal of which
this uh resolution may be a part. Well, if town meeting agrees that Mr. Trump is incompetent. My goal is for the town of Brooklyn to go on record as urging those who have the power to
invoke the 25th amendment to do so. Okay? To speak as a municipal body. I would note that in 2005, someone who was not there then in office in town meeting brought a resolution to
impeach George W. Bush over the Iraq war. It passed. I remember it well because I was the sponsor. It didn't lead to his impeachment, but it was speaking out. It was doing what the First Amendment allows us to do
as citizens and as a body of citizens, the town of Brooklyn. That's what this is about. Okay. Um, and my second question is, do you think that this resolution will have any impact, either positive or negative, on the function of the executive branch
of Brook Linestown government? No. I mean, I suppose it's possible if you believe that the federal government would take revenge on the executive branch of the town government because the citizens through town meeting, if
they pass this resolution, express the the opinion that the the uh resolution embodies, but I would say the answer is most likely no. Thank you, John.
Um, I I confess that this isn't what I I thought it would be when I saw there was going to be a town meeting article, you know, dealing with um expression of of opinion as to Trump's continuence in office. I thought for sure it was it was, you know, impeachment on the basis
of all of the various um overreaches um that you know people have identified with him. Overreaches in terms of the courts, overreaches in terms of you name it. Um and and this is very different This seems to be predicated upon, you
know, a part of the constitution that seems to be written for the purpose of dealing with uh when there's in as you say incapacity but I I I think what was envisioned is you know unable to perform the duties of the office maybe had a heart attack maybe you know is on one's
deathbed whatever and it also relies on the people in his administration to bring the action. So, I'm confused. If if I had drafted the 25th amendment, perhaps it would have been drafted differently. Uhhuh. That is what the system is. Yeah.
Um I I will tell you as a matter of personal opinion, I don't like Mr. Vance's politics either, but I think he is sane. I think he is psychologically competent. I would note
that there is actually a historical example where Woodro Wilson suffered from a stroke which was largely hidden from the public, remained in office, I believe, for 19 months after the stroke. Yeah.
Um I would say that's probably a case where he was not psychiatrically competent to remain in office today. Perhaps he would have been moved aside. Would that have been better or not?
That has to remain unknown. I I I I just worry that um you're walking down a path where a lot of people are going to want to express some displeasure with Trump, but they'll find this to be not the right way to do it.
And so they'll feel like, oh, now it's gonna say Brooklyn rejects, you know, criticism of Trump and and people are gonna feel like there's no way to come out of this with the public clearly understanding what Brooklyn has done. It's funny because as you answered that,
you asked that question, my first reaction was, well then fewer people will line up to speak for on the resolution, which might be a good thing at that point late in town meeting. David, I agree with John. I think that the last point he just made, do you have
any concerns about the broader message if this does not pass town meeting? Is that going to be construed as supporting Trump? So, I agree with John that when I first heard that a warrant article was coming before town meeting, and I agree with many of the whereas clauses that it
was going to be the impeachment route. I'm very concerned about using the saying that we believe the 25th amendment is an appropriate route when very clearly its origin was more around medical and physical incapacity.
Uh I think that this borders more on politicizing what has a medical origin. Uh I I read some more background information on this and Congress first took this up seriously when Eisenhower was president. He had a heart attack. He was
hospitalized for seven weeks. He was uh barely in Washington. Communication wasn't the greatest. He worked out sort of a side agreement with then Vice President Nixon. Uh which looks somewhat like what the ultimate 25th Amendment
became. Basically, I'm not available to discharge my duties now. So, uh, you, Vice President Nixon, will be acting president, and when I'm ready to come back, I will resume the position. And that very much mirrors the language that
eventually got adopted in 1967 uh, after the Kennedy assassination. I think if we politicize this, we run also the unintended consequence of seeing this weaponized against presidents who for whom there aren't really any medical or
mental health concerns whatsoever. And what we'll see is whenever it's a Democratic president, Republicans are urging 25th amendment and when it's a and it'll just be back and forth also realistically the mechanics of the 25th amendment. So there's the twothirds of
both houses of Congress would have to agree that the president is unfit in order to make it stand. There's no way that would ever happen. Republicans have a majority in both houses. And even if they didn't, they're not going to be such a minority that you would get that
twothirds threshold in both houses. So even if this came to pass that somehow his own loyal cabinet members turned on him that both houses of Congress would go along with it. Uh so I'm inclined not to
support this, but I don't want that to be misconstrued as we support Trump. It's not that at all. It's we don't support the mechanism. We'll figure it out. Thank you. Yeah. Let let me just say something. Um
my concern is that you what we do in Brooklyn has very little impact on anything right in this this but what we are saying is that we want to set a precedent that when we
agree disagree with the president we use mechanisms like this like impeachment etc in order to change the outcome of election. So like you know uh David said it's it's it's a back and forth world
that we are proposing be uh created. Um and I think you know in addition and and um probably more important it's sort of an impotent complaint about you know someone who clearly is you know off his rocker but
it it it sort of sets us up for ridicule. I mean, you know what? How's Fox News going to play this? And that's important because it's that type of ridicule of, you know, progressive ideas and and and approaches that, you know, motivates a
lot of people in the middle, right? Not Trump supporters, not Democratic supporters, but just sort of looking around seeing what, you know, which way the wind's blowing. And you know, for us to sort of set ourselves up as you know, this sort of um
you know, uh uh set itself up to to you know, just be pushing something silly actually supports that tendency within the electorate. I mean, in a small way, but still. Well, I don't think this is silly.
Well, in terms of whether this can go anywhere, it sure is. For all the reasons that people have have mentioned, if I may say, there's I I wish I could recall who it was. There was a man who was standing I think it may have been
outside the White House every day for an hour holding a sign protesting something. And someone said to him, "You're never going to change them." And he said, "I don't want them to change me.
And this may be a step that will go nowhere. It probably will go nowhere. It may not be noted anywhere, but it will be Brookline saying something. I assuming that people agree with my with the view of the sponsors that Mr. Trump
is not psychologically competent to remain in office. as I don't want to get into political issues over this and I tried in drafting the article to stay away from political issues. This is a
question of is this man competent to remain in office as I said to have the the keys to nuclear weapons? Uh Paul. Yep. Uh John, first you know I have tremendous respect for you. I read all
your stuff. Um uh and I I I appreciate your perspective. Although I don't always agree with it. Usually I agree with it. You've taught me to write instead of type. So that's a wisdom that you imparted on me a long time ago. Um but I you know I kind of agree with
my colleagues a bit. Um I uh I think they all make valid points. I think it's the I think it's the call to action, the mechanism. everything's good up to the point where you say let's invoke the 25th. Um, you know, maybe convert that
to, you know, town meeting encourages everybody to come out on Saturdays when we hold our rally, right? Make it something that could that that could be a show. I just I do I do worry uh if you just take the collective
comments um I don't I don't think this is a silly resolution but I I I do think that um it it it may not be sent getting the intended consequ you know the intended result that you're looking for. Um and I
mean we all know it would it would never I mean Vance isn't going to carry your water for you so it's not going to happen. But I I just I do I do think that that it could be worded in such a way that's a little more constructive in what Brooklyn can do uh to affect change
um versus this current form. Um that's that's my that's my feedback. I would I will discuss it with my co-etitioners and see whether they they believe we should change it. I would say Mr. Warren, that the the thing that you
suggested about encouraging people to go out and demonstrating something is exactly what I would never put before town meeting because there are people in this town who support Mr. Trump. I don't expect that. I mean, I don't want their town saying, "Oh,
taking a political position on a in that way on a national issue." But that's what you you're exactly asking because this is a I mean, I know you're saying it's not political. Come on, John. It's political. This is a polit this is a political statement. Um that's what it
is. And and it's it's how it's going to be perceived. And look, I'm not dismissing the fact that you you you have every right to make that political statement. I'm just wondering what is in the best interest of town meeting of the town and and to have some constructive
activity as a result of this versus you know the pending ridicule. I will discuss it with my co- petitioner. I what I Oh, Michael. Um, so first of all, um, I I I want to
acknowledge all of the comments that that the other select board members have made in terms of the political nature of this. Whether that whether or not that is the intent, I agree with you that that will definitely be the impact. Um the reason that I asked the questions that I did at the beginning about the
goal and the impact on the executive branch of the town is because uh this might actually be a case where the uh petitioner is asking the legislative body to take a position. Um, and it may
be more prudent for the executive branch in our role to simply not make a recommendation and to step aside from the matter. And you know, we may as members of town meeting choose to vote our position, but given that this is not
a a a um warned article that is intended to uh impact the executive branch, though I take your points, chair, that um there are potential negative repercussions. Um but in the interests
of balancing that issue with the interests of the petitioner to uh bring forward such a such a petition through the process we've established. Um it would seem perfectly reasonable um for us to simply not take a position and
leave this as a question to the legislative body and not have the executive body weigh in. I think that's a valid approach for us to take. But uh you know what what what I was about to say is that you know instead of telling a body that's not
going to listen to us what they should do. I mean I thought your resolution was going to say because of all this you know the the behaviors the mental evidence of mental incapacity um etc etc
etc. town meeting expresses its concern that uh Trump is putting America in mortal danger because of I mean you I mean that that as an alternative to asking you know the cabinet and Congress to do something that they're not going
to do and you know we kind of look um you know not silly but you know we look like we're just you know spitting into the wind. We're saying this is what we believe right? Um and and here that because of you know all the things you
list there. So that's my idea. I I I I think that's a good idea. Again, I've got several co-partitioners. Let me discuss it with them. And as to what Mr. Rubenstein said, I would have no objection if you want to say we're not
taking a position on this. But we want to give you our best counsel. Exactly. Okay. Did we do a public hearing for the last warrant article? Um, we Yes, we did. But, uh, this one still has a public hearing. Yes. So,
open the public hearing. Yes. Now that the chair has opened the public hearing, there were no individuals who signed up in advance to speak on warrant article 19. Um, if there are individuals online who wish to speak at this time, please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature or if in the room, please make your
presence known. Yes, Regina Frolley. Thank you. Uh, Regina Frolley, who's been a town resident for over 60 years and who proudly marched in 1969 on the Vietnam War in Brooklyn was the first town to do such a thing. You can't, you
weren't here. You're not even old enough. Some of you, you can't imagine the opposition we had. But it was the pebble in the pond. And town by town did the same kinds of things. But we were the leaders who did it. And it
encouraged people. It gave them a voice. If it does nothing else, it brings you together as having a common concern. And I think we can stand for that as a community. we did it in Vietnam and I'm
very proud of that and I think even if I'm not out there marching with John because I'm too old now um I support his right to do it and I think it should go forward. Thank you. Are there any other individuals who wish to speak on this
warrant article? Hey, there are three individuals in the room, 15 online, and no one else is indicating their desire to speak. Okay, I'll close the public hearing and we'll take this up at a future meeting. John, thank you. Thank you for your consideration and your thoughts.
Next, I see Heather Hamilton moving up close to the mic. Uh because the next Warren article is Warren Article 18, resolution regarding the recording of public meetings, which she has a definite interest in. Good evening. Gosh, I've forgotten how
late these things can go. Um, okay. First, uh, just want to reintroduce myself. My name is Heather Hamilton. Yes, my hair looks different. Um, I now work at Brookline Interactive Group. Um, which I absolutely love and I get to use
some of the stuff that I worked on, you know, on Select Board many years ago. Uh, but now I get to concentrate on educating and empowering young people to have a voice on, you know, social media and, uh, on our cable channels. So, in
doing so, I uh one of my initiatives was to really beef up our civic channel and I knew that there were there were no shortage of meetings going on in town and now because of Zoom, lots of them
are recorded. So, I, you know, have gone on the town website and I've been pretty uh judicious about downloading the meetings. And I just want to uh say how much I really have um uh
been impressed with especially the work led by Tiffany on the handbook that I believe you guys took up earlier this summer really giving a lot more guidance to boards and commissions to post their meetings regularly. That being said,
there I've noticed a couple of things when I've gone on the town website and I've tried to access recorded meetings. The five uh boards and commissions that uh have been taken up uh previously
um I'm just finding the the side conversation a little distracting. Sorry. Um the the the five boards and commissions that uh we took up as a body in the select board a couple years ago,
zoning board of appeals, um diversity, transportation board, public health and PAB, the housing, they're pretty good at uh putting up their recordings on a regular basis, but I have been really surprised and a little disappointed that
a lot of other boards and commissions don't um and because of my work on select board I happen to know that there are recordings of planning board of conservation commission of preservation commission and I also happen to know who
to ask. So when I don't see a recording I usually find the staff member that was most likely to record that meeting and I ask for the recording and usually I get the recording. I think a lot of people, especially staff, record the meeting
because it helps them do the meeting minutes. Um, but I'm troubled that those recordings are not making their way onto the civic platform. So, this warrant article is really just to um hopefully
amplify the work that was started with the select board, which has been carried through with Tiffany's work. But there are some boards and commissions that don't fall neatly under the purview of select board. Um I've never seen a women's commission meeting posted. I
haven't really seen Indigenous People's Day celebration committee even though they meet almost exclusively via Zoom. Don't really see those recorded. Don't know whether or not they're recorded but usually when I ask for the recording I
get the recording. So I think there are recordings but they're just not being posted. So this this article is is seeking to do two things and I want to clarify one thing that it's not seeking to do and that is I did not say that we are going
to record all meetings. I was very specific in not including that. I think that is a that is something for the select board or somebody else to file a warrant article to take up at another time. I personally think that if we have the capability of recording a meeting,
it should be recorded. But that's a discussion for another time. This is only aimed at recordings if they exist. They should be made available and I believe they should be made available within I wanted to put 48 hours. I was
told to to do about four days and then I just came from an advisory committee subcommittee meeting and they really pushed me to um change the language to 10 days which I accepted as a friendly amendment. Um so that that's something
that you know I I didn't intend to do which is to force all meetings to be recorded but I really wanted some sort of uh mechanism to educate all boards and commissions that if a recording exists they should really try to make it
available. And then the other thing in working with big, we we zoom record a lot. And one of the things that I've learned is the administrative account in Zoom has access to any recording that was saved to the cloud. You can have
seven employees and any one of them can hit record to the cloud for some meeting. Now I think a lot of people mistakenly think that only that employee has access to that recording. Not. So the administrative Zoom account has access to those meetings and I would
encourage the town IT department to meet with the Zoom government uh liaison or whoever you guys deal with to try to figure out how to automate this process because what I'm finding is you're this process
is predicated on people remembering to upload the Zoom recording onto the website And that's where the disconnect is going to is is happening and is going to continue to happen. That's the end of my presentation.
Okay. I apologize for the distraction. Sorry about that. That's okay. It happens. Yeah, as you know. Any discussion, John? Uh great to see you again and um this is
one of my favorite topics and uh I I hope that indeed we achieve what you um are are expressing and maybe even more and I've had conversations with Tiffany in particular um on this subject and I've expressed myself on this subject in
the past. Um there's other systems. I'm not saying we should use a different system, but just to let people know um you know there are systems for example where not only um is it just sort of automatic that the
record the the video that you was made at the time of the meeting then becomes part of the record of the meeting. Um but also the agenda becomes part of the record of the meeting and you can go down the agenda and highlight an item on
the agenda and the video advances to that. You know that that's how you know far you can go with this and is really a huge step forward in making government accessible to everybody all the time. Doesn't matter what board, what
commission. And so the goal is absolutely one that I agree with. I haven't had recent conversations with our staff about this. Um I don't know what they would say in terms of how much we can improve on the select number of boards and commissions that we started
out with saying but you're absolutely right that they are doing a good job. the rest of the PE boards, committees, and commissions, which is, you know, a couple dozen or three dozen at least. Um, it's very spotty and and it's kind of frustrating because it's like, oh,
you know, I can always look at the latest meeting of the select board within a day. Um, but I can almost never even find, you know, the meeting from three months ago of, you know, some of these boards, committees, and commissions. So, uh, whatever happens as a result of this resolution, I hope that
we do continue to just, you know, cultivate improvement in in the system and make it more widespread among all our boards, committees, and commissions. So, I'm I'm glad you're proddding us on this, David. So, a couple questions. So, you mentioned uh that initially you were
advised provide 4 days instead of 48 hours and then 10 days. What reasons were you given for these periods of time? Everybody's always worried about the weekend usually. Um, so two days seemed, you know, too soon. Although I would
argue it is simply copying and pasting if you're going to continue to rely on people on the human element, which I strongly strongly advocate that it look at a way to automate this. Um, I can use
an example from uh our experience on big. I know that there are two platforms at play, Zoom and uh civic clerk. Uh we had a similar issue at big with zoom and uh cablecast which is actually the the
program that is allowing this to be aired over our airways. The two programs are very different. They do not play nice. We had a very ambitious intern use chat GBT this summer to create a program that allowed the two programs to
communicate with each other. So um I have my own ideas of you know it if there is no recording uploaded you could just simply say don't see a recording check this other website and redirect people to you know something that Zoom
just you know backends has everything listed by date but um 4 days seemed like it it's not as um problematic the guidance from the handbook book says all
other boards and commissions are encouraged to post that week that the meeting takes place. So, one could infer that 4 days is in line with that. Um the advisory committee subcommittee that I met with the earlier this this evening,
they were, you know, nervous that that's not enough time should somebody go on vacation, whatnot. So, they wanted me to soften it to 10 days. I'm just hoping that more boards and commissions post their meetings. So, and also you mentioned that the the
purpose of this more broadly speaking is to have it on a civic channel. Yes. So, uh is big envisioning having all these board meetings televised at some point? Obviously, it doesn't sound like it would be live. Correct. I would make that distinction.
So what I do on Mondays is I go to the town website and I look at the Zoom uh meetings and I used the program that was developed by our college intern this summer and he wrote a a program using
chat GBT that actually did Python code to to tell the computer go to this website look for any new Zoom links that have been uploaded download them then reformat them because Zoom files are in
25 frames per second and Cablecast will only upload things that are set to 30 frames per second. That was the disconnect between our two programs. So, it reformats it, saves it, and then
uploads it to our old p uh other software that we use to upload everything. So, I am doing my best to try to, you know, make these Zoom recordings available on TV so that you can literally just turn on your local
civic channel and watch economic development, you can watch zero emissions, you can watch um BCAN, anything that's been uploaded, I download and I run on our channel. Yeah, Paul. Yeah. Uh, Heather, as you know, the the
best warrant articles are the most simple. Uh, and this is a very simple warrant article. Um, and I fully support it. I watch most of um the meetings at 3 in the morning when I can't sleep or, you know, when I have a moment of time. Um, I very rarely am
able to attend meetings publicly, but I'm always very interested um in in in the content. And like you, often I'm reaching out to the staff person that I know has the recording and asking for it. Um, even when they've already published it because I can't find them.
Um, but you know, ultimately, and I think this may resonate with Mike, Mike's also a technology person, this is really a technology workflow issue. Uh, I mean, it shouldn't take four days, it should take four minutes, right? I mean, once the trigger happens that the meeting's done, um, we need your intern
to help us write some code that could go grab it and post it to the right location based on a descriptor or or whatever. Um, but yeah, I think this, uh, this is something that we we should do and we just need the vision and impetus to do it. So, thank you for
filing the article. Okay, Michael. Uh, sure. Uh, you're holding up our our hearing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you. Um and I would agree with Paul. I I I firmly believe that that there are technical solutions to be applied to
this to this problem as um your intern did and I am fully confident that um chat tpt or other um large language model AI can produce such programs. Um it's
the challenge is is more in defining the workflow. Um, and um, I look forward to supporting this article and working with Tiffany and the rest of the staff to make sure that those workflows are well defined and accelerating this process.
Great. Okay, this is a public hearing. Tiffany, could you open up the public hearing? Yes. Now that the chair has opened up the public hearing, there are no individuals that signed up in advance. If anyone is online and wishes to speak on Warren article 18, please raise your hand using the
raise the hand feature at this time. Or if in the room, please make your presence known. Okay, there are two individuals in the room, 15 online, and no one is indicating their desire to speak. Let's close the hearing. Then what would the board like to do? This is one of
those non-controversial Yeah. articles. Pro tonight if you want. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if I may make a suggestion. Um, you don't have the latest uh language. Um, so I can I'm happy to send that to
you so that you guys can take a look at it and vote at a later date. Uh, I will say the only substantive change that was made. Most of it was word smithing in the where whereas claus clauses, but the most substantive change was going from four days to 10.
Okay. Uh, we'll wait. Thank you. Could I actually make a suggestion on that, Heather? Sure. Can we say up to 10 days? Yeah, it says when um I forget. No more than as soon as practicable but no later than 10 days or something. We could do it in 40 seconds and then up
to 10 days. Right. Right. Okay. Great. Thank you. So Chaz, talk to us about um foreign articles 11 and 12 because I understand that there are some developments with respect to them. Yes. Yes. And I'll let the picture for
one article 12 speak as uh Miss Murphy if she sees fit. Um my understanding is that um the two articles basically try and do similar things and we have no objection to the language for both of them being there and I just don't know
what the procedural mechanism is for making that work. Um but my understanding is that um that when the advisory committee or subcommittee asked about it that one was accepted as a friendly amendment of the other. Um but I don't know what I don't know necessarily know so I may not have the
latest information. Um but whatever it is we're happy to move forward either way. If I may. Um Joselyn Murphy town meeting member precinct 16. I'm operating seven hours ahead. So I'm just back from a
from traveling. So, um I'll do my best, but uh no, what happened? I was away and I received an email from uh the chair of the um land use subcommittee which is taking up these articles and it was Carol Levvin who apparently had
suggested um incorporating the language of article 12 into article 11 um in proceeding. But I I pointed out that of course that would require the authority of the petitioner of article 12 and I needed some time to think about that.
Oh, sorry. So that has not been agreed to. I I actually have a different proposal that I'm happy to run through when it's my opportunity to talk about article 12. Thank you. I think perhaps why don't you take that opportunity now?
Certainly. Article 11 precedes articles. Yes, of course. And you know they largely try to accomplish the same thing although 11 is more limited of course than article 12. Are we able to have a hearing for both
of the articles together? Yes. Yeah. I assume that would be the case that you would hear them together. So if you'd like me to proceed with 12, I'd be happy to do that. Yes. So recently I was informed after 27 years of service as a Walnut Hills Cemetery Trustee and three years of
service on the advisory committee that I'm no longer eligible to serve on both bodies based upon a provision in the town's bylaws as it has been interpreted by town council. Without addressing the merits of that interpretation, I ask that you consider the advantages
of appointing members of the advisory committee who are typically conversant in municipal finance to other town committees. For example, in my own case as a cemetery trustee, I advocated against unnecessary expansion of the cemetery,
preventing a large swath of carbon capturing trees from being cut down and saving the town nearly half a million dollars in related expenses. I also recommended against the proposed expenditure of cemetery fees to support a part-time administrative assistant
because under state law, these funds may only be used for the expansion or embellishment of the cemetery. Of course, this was only a recommendation because it is the commissioner of public works and not the cemetery trustees who controls the expenditure of cemetery
funds. This evening, you'll be appointing the chair of the park and recreation commission to the naming committee. Is there a conflict in that role when park and recreation facilities are being named? You will be appointing a member of the school committee to the revenues and expenditure study
committee. Does that pose a conflict? Should a member of the advisory committee be denied his seat on the standing taxation aid committee? Should the chair of the advisory committee be excluded from serving on the standing town school partnership committee because there is a danger that he will
steer funds toward a personal interest? Of course not. In each of these cases, including my colleagues and my own, our conduct as members of these bodies, is strictly governed by the conflict of interest law. As former town council, I also believe
it is a mistake to carve out a single exception in a bylaw, especially where the impact of this interpretation is unknown and is likely to impact future interpretation of the bylaw. How many other bodies will it impact? Will it unnecessarily prevent otherwise
qualified individuals from serving on public bodies where they have particular expertise? And finally, despite this interpretation and an early and an earlier opinion regarding the service of a butters, I have continued to serve in good standing as an active participating cemetery
trustee since this decision was made without incident. For these reasons, it is my suggestion that I will likely move that articles 11 and 12 be referred to a select board or moderators committee for further consideration and study and that
in the interim members of the committees impacted by this decision, whomever they may be, be authorized to continue to serve in their dual capacities. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Ch uh Chaz, what do you what do
you think of that? I have no I have no object obviously this is the first time hearing of this but I have no objection to referring the matters and you know as was said you know there were I believe three different individuals serving on different committees in one case there was a shift of the responsibilities of
that committee me of that committee on which an advisory committee member served that let that put public funds out of the responsibility of that individual. So that conflict was removed. The potential conflict was removed. That leaves just two members
who are pot who are currently serving um without um or you know who are currently serving in those positions where town council is opined that there's a potential the conflict with the current bylaw. With that said, we have no capacity to remove members for that.
There's no there's no provision for removal of a member. It's just a matter of appointment, reappointment, and so forth. So, I don't think there's any issue necessarily with referring this matter and for people to continue serving for as long as that's as as long
as they're on the board. So, again, no no procedural objection on my end. The question is where to refer it to. You said moderators committee. Well, I I'm suggesting it's likely a select boards committee since you are the appointing authority for all committees and commissions other than
the advisory committee. It seemed to make sense. Okay. Well, I I I just have a question about the original intent of the original bylaw uh that we're trying to change or enforce or whatever the case may be. When do we know the history of this,
when it was put in place, why it was put in place, what the intent was? I don't know the history of this particular one. I don't know if Miss Murphy does. Um I I would say that I serve on the um MMA committee on forms of government. Um and recently uh committee community reached out to that
committee asking some questions about this particular issue whether or not members of finance committees could serve on any other committee. Yeah. And that the trend that they identified was actually that if you're on the finance the equivalent of the advisory committee in other communities, you can't serve on any committees whether or
not you have money. So, but but I I would say that I think to Miss Murphy's point, this Brooklyn's law is more nuanced in the sense that it tries to carve out it tries to address that problem in a more targeted way. So, my you know, I've raised this I think when we originally talked about
maybe putting an article on. I I thought we didn't even need to do anything. Um but, you know, my my concern about this is that the advisory committee is the appropriating committee, right? They recommend the budget to town meeting.
Um, so they're appropriating the money and then members of the appropriating body are then on committees that are spending the money. That to me is a conflict. Um, that's not a separation of duties. Um, so I, you know, I I firmly
believe that we should have that separation. um now doesn't cause you a problem because you cover a person of integrity but um you know when you from a from a perception standpoint the the appropriate the person who's helping to
appropriate the money which is the recommendation to tell meeting is also serving at a committee to spend the money that's where I have an issue maybe I'm misinterpreting it the I'm interpreting it the wrong way but that's where I have a problem well and that may have been the original intent of what the what the bylaw was
for yeah I mean if I respond to that. I I suspect that the language in the bylaws is somewhat antiquated. I did look at other communities. Some communities have this provision, some don't. I don't know where it falls. The conflict of interest
law, I believe, was um enacted in the mid60s. I don't know. I was unable to determine when the language in the bylaw was enacted or when the bylaw was amended, but clearly it's intended to prevent conflicts of interest. And the
conflict as I said earlier the conflict of interest law governs all of us on boards and committees. Well I I had a different continue the the the advisory committee is does not appropriate money. It recommends the appropriation
a recommendation um and similarly but I'll speak for the trustees. We have no control over the expenditure of money which is the actual language in the bylaw. We we're an advisory body and we are empowered to to supervise the
expenditure of cemetery fees which are voluntary fees paid by individuals for the right of interment. They're not taxpayer dollars. It's not an appropriation. It is a fund that is paid into the cemetery solely for the purpose of um interment. And then those funds by
statute can only be used for the embellishment or enlargement of the cemetery. So there's no danger of a conflict. So I I guess my issue with this interpretation is that it's contextually it just doesn't fit within the intent of the language of the bylaw.
Well, and maybe your fix is what clarifies it by saying no direct. Right. Yeah. Honestly, I don't think a fix is necessary. There's another provision in the bylaws that says that the words in the bylaw shall be construed in their common as they're commonly understood. And so what I simply did was insert the
dictionary definition of uh standing committee and and of um control of the expenditure. Yeah, that's all I did. Yeah. Um but frankly, I I think this requires more study because it's my understanding that Mr. Gordon is a member of the
taxation aid committee. Technically, town council's opinion would apply to him. um presumably would also apply to the chair of the advisory committee who serves on the town school partnership because if you go by the technical language of town council's opinion they
have some control over the expenditure of of money. So I I just think there needs to be more evaluation and study. There could be other committees in the f with respect to article 11. It's it carves out a single exception that causes a problem
in the future because people when we're long gone, people will say, well, why did town meeting carve out a single exception? That means that they must have meant it didn't apply to this committee or that committee. And that's sort of boxing the town in. So that's largely the purpose for my
recommendation for a study committee. Okay, this is a public hearing. So, why don't we open the public hearing and and go from there? Now that the chair has opened the public hearing, if there are in um there are no individuals who signed up in advance for this public hearing, um and sorry, just
to be clear, are we doing 11 and 12 right now or just 12? Sorry. Yeah, 11 and 12. Okay. Um so, this public hearing is on warrant article 11 and 12. So, if you wish to speak on either warrant article, um please raise your hand using the raise the hand feature at this time or please make your presence in the room known.
Okay, there's one individual online in the room and 15 online and it looks like no one is indicating their desire to speak on either of these warrant articles. Okay. Um let's close the hearing then. Um what do we do? What do we do next? I You're proposing that um this be
referred to I guess the select board committee. Both articles, pardon me, both articles to a select board. Right. Right. Um I should clarify that I'm it's something I'm thinking about. I'm likely this will be taken up um jointly by the CTO and S and by the
land use subcommittee of the advisory committee on Monday. So my thought was I've been away for 10 days. This relatively recently came to me. So I I'll likely be making that motion on Monday night. Um but I'm interested in
your thoughts. Yeah, I I think it's a great idea or a good idea. Great idea. I'm sorry. Um I I guess what I'm looking for is what do we do now? And and we we can't vote on it. Uh so we just put it on the agenda for the next meeting. So
it it would be really helpful, Bernard, if someone could do the research to find out what was the where did this what was the source of this and what was its intent. I know it's one that's actually one of the things that COS does very well. Um and so we can we can work with them on that. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. I'm sorry. I just want to clarify since since you're here. So, so it it's your belief that the language of the statute of the bylaw as written actually doesn't require either of these changes. Is that
Yes, that is my contention. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, getting close to the end, boys and girls.
Um, we have board uh three boards and commissions appointments. Uh, first uh Clara Bachelor to the naming committee as park and recreation commission representative. Uh, any questions or comments about that appointment? If not,
all in favor, please indicate by saying I. John Vancoyak. I. Paul Warren. I. David Corman. I. Michael Rubenstein. I sir votes. I next um a question of updating the membership of the revenues and expenditure study
committee by appointing Mariah Nrea as a school committee representative uh in lie of or replacing Sarah Martado. Any any comments or questions about that? And is there still an alternate? Is it Jesse? Jesse remains the alternate. Okay. So,
welcome Mariah and thank Sarah for her service. She did a lot of work on this committee through the summer and and spring. So, okay. Seeing no one having any questions or comments, I move approval of replacing uh Sarah McAda with Mariah
Brag on the on the expenditures and revenue study committee. All in favor? John Vancoyak. Hi. Paul Warren. Hi. David Pearlman. Hi. Michael Rubenstein. I votes I. Next question of appointing Melissa Mukin to the Brooklyn Commission for Women. You may recall that Melissa
was interviewed on September 16. And it's my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, Tiffany, that she has been in communication with the chair of the Commission for Women, Eileen Lee, and the chair supports her appointment. Okay. So, that's correct. That's my understanding
as well. Okay. That's all I need to know. Uh any questions or comments? Okay. All in favor? John Vancoy. Hi. Paul Warren. Hi. David Crowman. Hi. Michael Rubenstein. Hi. Jerichols. I.
And that is the end of our agenda. Wait, let's see if anyone wants to speak at the end of our meeting. Is anyone online raising their hand? No. Nope. Okay, then the meeting is over. Thank you. And
the Red Sox. [Music]