WEBVTT METADATA Video-Count: 1 Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=Dpe3peGGtpQ NOTE MEETING SECTIONS: Part 1 (Video ID: Dpe3peGGtpQ): - 00:00:45: Meeting Commences; Agenda and Minutes Approved Quickly - 00:01:53: O'Gorman Variances Public Hearing Begins; Project Overview - 00:04:42: Public Comment: Mr. Gorman's Frustrations on Project Costs - 00:12:43: Public Hearing Closed; Discussion on Variances Begins - 00:13:15: Clarification on Alley Paving and Construction Observation - 00:17:16: Exploring Approving Variance Before Final Plat Issues - 00:21:13: Motion to Approve Variances Carries Unanimously - 00:21:46: Discussion Begins on Final Plat and Development Agreement - 00:24:47: The Alley's Status and Unique Paving Assessment Issue - 00:32:53: Debate Continues: Developer Costs, City Standards, Past Practices - 00:34:33: Developer Declares Departure; Future of Project Unclear - 00:35:54: Final Plat Approval Contingent on Development Agreement - 00:37:32: Motion to Approve Final Plat (Conditional Development Agreement) - 00:40:41: Final Plat Approved; Meeting Adjourned; Announcements Part: 1 1 00:00:45.440 --> 00:01:07.520 10. >> I'm not on that part. >> 5. The Monday, May 11th, 2026 meeting of the planning commission of the city of Canon Falls will come to order. Roll call. >> Diane Johnson 2 00:01:07.520 --> 00:01:20.960 >> here. >> No >> here. >> Douglas >> here. >> Knots >> here. >> Chad Johnson >> here. >> Agenda is before us. Do I hear motion to approve the agenda? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. 3 00:01:20.960 --> 00:01:38.560 >> Uh Novach or Yeah, Novach moved. Um Douglas second. All in favor? I >> I >> opposed. Nay. So moved. No public input. >> Uh minutes. Approve minutes. >> Oh, never mind. Mot motion to approve 4 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:53.840 the minutes. >> Motion to approve. >> Okay. How about moves? Is there a second? >> Second. >> Uh not seconds. All in favor? I >> I move. No public input. Now we will move on to 5 00:01:53.840 --> 00:02:11.360 the public hearing on the O'Gorman variances. I will turn it over to Vizzy. Okay. So today public hearing for the O Gorman variances. Uh just a public hearing on the variances, not the final plat only. The variances need the public 6 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:26.480 hearing today. Uh the preliminary plat we approved back in August. Um so all of the changes that um we required are changed and updated on the final plat. So in form the final plat is pretty much 7 00:02:26.480 --> 00:02:43.120 the same that you saw in August for the most part. Um so variances are for the lot depth and the front yard setback um on certain lots within the plat. Um so a decrease in the required lot depth and 8 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:58.959 then front yard variance from 25 feet to 17 um for the setback there. So the variances are for those two items um in conjunction with the final plat. Um so the variances and the final plat are 9 00:02:58.959 --> 00:03:16.879 based on approval of each other. So they need each other in order to be approved. Um, so in terms of I'll kind of just do an overview since we're we're all here of everything. So the only things that we have questioning on on the final plat 10 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:32.159 are again these variances which we're presenting tonight and then one item um from the development agreement um which we require construction observation for the public utilities. um developer was 11 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:49.599 like to just have asbuilt surveys rather than construction observation. So the variances and that one item are just kind of the the two items that we'll have to discuss tonight. Um otherwise we're comfortable with the variances and the final plat as they are. Um so first 12 00:03:49.599 --> 00:04:10.879 we'll just have the public hearing on the variances and then we can discuss um both um the final plat and the variances. I will open the public hearing at 6:30 6:32 p.m. >> Would any So then uh just as a for the 13 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:26.160 record the developers here the applicant and they have the right to speak and provide information about the project any public hearing. Yeah. So and there's no limited time to that. So the public hearing is for residents or anybody uh that's interested in the project to 14 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:42.800 provide their their comment for the record. But the developer does have the opportunity to provide and answer questions as needed. So there's no limitation on >> here, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I want to go over what I he was just telling me telling you guys 15 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:57.759 this this plat is basically the same as it's been for the last 25 years and I've owned it for probably about 30. Um in 2018 I had a guy approach me and wanted to make the streets private. That's one of the oldest plats in the 16 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:15.039 city of Cannon Falls right there. And uh really nothing's changed. All that I've done is spent a whole bunch of money for nothing. And John and I have gone over this and over this and over this. And I went over it with them last fall before 17 00:05:15.039 --> 00:05:31.039 I left. And I thought I had it all cleared up with them. But there's still more engineering and more surveying to the tune of $5,000, which it's all money. Okay. I put the 18 00:05:31.039 --> 00:05:47.280 utilities in in 2018, I believe. It was all engineered at the time. I paid for it in full and it was overseen and I provided asbuilt plans to the city of Canon Falls. I can assure you that there 19 00:05:47.280 --> 00:06:04.800 have been many many projects in the city of Canon Falls decades ago. You don't have the asbuilt plans and you can talk to Wes about that. And I'm not sure that Jed understands totally what's going on, but 20 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:22.800 I know that Wes now knows and I fought for that and fought for that to try to get the engineer to provide those. And believe it or not, you don't have squat. Okay? They all went by memory of who was here before. And it's a cluster 21 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:40.199 farm there. But I did this right and I did the asbuilt plans. I know exactly what I'm talking about. And I've been in this business for a long, long time. Not necessarily in the development business, but I've been in the construction business. 22 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:56.479 when she talks about the as you said some verbiage there Izzy about I did not want to have somebody oversee the utilities they're all in they've been in for eight years they were overseen by an 23 00:06:56.479 --> 00:07:13.360 engineer well the engineer really never came on the property but they were overseen by a city representative and approved and done according to H oil Um, they are asbuilt plans. That's more 24 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:29.520 than has been provided most of the time for decades. Not that they're not doing it now, but but it didn't used to quite go that way. And they're talking about oversight. And I think the utility that you might be 25 00:07:29.520 --> 00:07:47.520 talking about is Blacktop because that's where John and I disagree. And we're going to continue to disagree. The city started paving alleys 12 or so years ago at city expense. Nobody has ever been assessed to my 26 00:07:47.520 --> 00:08:03.520 knowledge. And you can ask Matt Montgomery. He his was done two years ago I believe. So nobody gets charged for them. I have the only alley because it's an alley in Cannon Falls that I'm going to be 27 00:08:03.520 --> 00:08:21.599 responsible according to John to pay for and we are at odds against that and we've talked about that. Okay. I'm not pissed yet but but we've discussed it. There are three other buildings car 28 00:08:21.599 --> 00:08:38.880 wash. Pete Christensen owns a property. So does Becky Young Mark. I'm paving for them according to John. Now John's going to disagree with that, but the fact remains I'm going to pave for those two houses 29 00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:55.200 because I own the property that encompasses their driveways, too. So they get off the hook for nothing. I get to pay for it all. According to John, I'm not going to pay for that. And I can assure you that this project will probably go in the trash can. My kids 30 00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:10.320 can develop it someday. When somebody else decides that they're going to take it in the shorts, but I'm not going to. I don't have to. It's not a big deal. Somebody would still have to pave from the end of my property to the car wash, 31 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:26.160 which you got a new blacktop road up on Dakota Street. So, there's another 200 feet or so, but it's going to cost me about 25 to $30,000 to black top that. Well, it's not going to cost me because 32 00:09:26.160 --> 00:09:43.600 I'm not going to do it. Okay. Um, just for the record, this variance that you guys charge me $450 to come and get, John saw to it that 33 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:59.440 I had to have a surveyor survey 8 ft beyond the 16 foot of alleyway in the entire city. That is depicted by ordinance. They're there. You'd never know it because people have built right 34 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:14.320 up to the alley. And I can show you dozens and dozens of instances. Some are even encroaching the alley, but they're right next to the alley throughout town in several spots. 35 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:31.600 John saw to it that I had to depict this in an survey. So, I'm 26 ft from the alley to the front of the garage. Izzy's a foot off. Okay. 26 ft. I got to 36 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:47.839 have 25. Now, John makes me steals eight feet from me and I'm here to beg for it back for the tune of $450. It's redundant. Okay. Now, the $450 isn't bothering me too much. Diane 37 00:10:47.839 --> 00:11:03.519 agreed to pay for it for me. I think today anyway. But the $25,000 or whatever it's going to cost me to black top it is a thorn in my side because nobody else has to pay for that. 38 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:19.839 You go 150 yards straight south of here. It's called Stelton Street. It's been there since 1972. It is a city street. It's still gravel. Look at the garage. It's on the edge of the street. There's 39 00:11:19.839 --> 00:11:36.240 no set back, okay? And and there are easements through there, but they are less than adequate, believe me, cuz I had to get sewer and water off of that roadway out there. But it's gravel. It's 40 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:53.680 been gravel. Never has had any black top on it whatsoever. Not that it matters. I'm just saying that you guys don't even pave your own streets, but you want me to pay to pave my alley when it's not only my alley. It's 41 00:11:53.680 --> 00:12:11.519 actually your alley, but you want me to pay for it and provide blacktop to the neighbors. Doesn't make sense to me. Not at all. So I think that's the utility she's talking about because these were put in 42 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:28.959 eight years ago and it's all done recorded up to snuff with asbuilt plans. >> Can we can we clarify that? Can we just make sure? Let me let me ask, are we actually still in the the public input 43 00:12:28.959 --> 00:12:43.360 time? Because I >> So you can you can open and close your public hearing because there isn't anybody there isn't anybody in the room that could comment on >> public uh hearing then we really aren't supposed >> We can all see there's nobody here. So >> Okay, go ahead. 44 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:59.040 >> Let me Yeah. So are there any other comments on for the um public hearing? Anyone else? >> No. >> For public hearing? Anyone else? Then we will declare the public hearing closed at 6:41 p.m. Now >> I misunderstood John. I thought he 45 00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:15.680 wanted me to talk during the public hearing, but that's okay. >> I don't care. >> Okay. I can't do that. Well, you know that. >> Now we move on to the discussion. The first discussion is on the variances 46 00:13:15.680 --> 00:13:32.160 which you have been speaking to. >> Correct. And now I believe Chris and Chad each had a question. >> Um well I mean if we're just talking about again these go hand in hand it looks like but I just want to clarify I guess from the city's perspective. Um my 47 00:13:32.160 --> 00:13:47.839 understanding is the recommendations from Bill city engineer is that we want to do construction observation the the pavement not utilities corre we have the asbuilt we have the planned records for for the water and sewer. right 48 00:13:47.839 --> 00:14:03.360 >> utilities that will serve this site and we've accepted those those are >> so it is just >> construction observation was on the pavement of the alleyways >> okay be >> and for explanation from our perspective and 49 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:20.639 interpreting the code and what it says is that our requirement is that alleys are part of the street network the public streets of the city and they are all required to be paved when a developer is platting a project. The current standard for right ofway must 50 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:37.920 have at some time uh been increased to add the 8ft rightway requirements in addition to the 16 ft of the pavement for the alleyway. So that's in reference to what Mr. Gorman's talking about in in the additional 8 ft from from where the 51 00:14:37.920 --> 00:14:56.639 setbacks required. The lots are zoned in the RB district. So the lot depth requirement for those is 142 feet and uh one of them before the rightway uh addition would have uh qualified for it 52 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:13.040 would have been right at 142 ft uh maybe slightly under but the other lot was never anywhere close to 142 ft. So that going back there would have been a variance requirement for that other lot development. Um anyways >> and the one on the south 53 00:15:13.040 --> 00:15:29.760 >> I guess one of the questions I have it appears to me that this is the exact same I mean the preliminary plat that we approved those v these variances already existed in that >> they were conditions of the preliminary plat >> right so this required to be applied for in ter to approve the final plat 54 00:15:29.760 --> 00:15:46.320 >> but this is no different than what we saw essentially back in >> the and the preliminary plat included the 8 foot of rightway from from both sides of the alley. >> Okay. Yeah, we're not disputing anything between conditions of the uh or the differences in in what's been presented 55 00:15:46.320 --> 00:16:02.720 from the preliminary plat to the final plat. The conditions were requirements of the at the time that were approved um from the planning commission and the council to be included in the addition of the final plot which is includes this this variance. And then the record 56 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:18.160 drawings for the asbuilt plans have been provided to us. the grading plan, all the other requirements are where we differ is the code states that alleys should be are required to be paved and our development standards are that we 57 00:16:18.160 --> 00:16:34.000 would provide the observation for those so that we could accept them as public infrastructure when they're completed. >> Okay, let me clarify that actually is part of the development agreement, the alley paving as opposed to the variance. 58 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:51.440 >> Correct. Okay. So the V so yes. So there so of of the decision tonight the variances are not subject to this development agreement that can that those can be approved on their own >> regard the final plat as part of an ordin or part of our ordinance 59 00:16:51.440 --> 00:17:07.199 requirements to approve a final plat is that we do have a development agreement or yeah development agreement requirement when public infrastructure is being constructed. So that's what was in here. um developer acknowledgement conditions of the final plat is what it 60 00:17:07.199 --> 00:17:24.400 was presented as under there and that's where >> well what I yeah what I was trying to get to is if the variances requested and the little drawings we've got were the same thing pretty much that we saw back in August and already a tenative or preliminary approvement to I'm just 61 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:39.840 wondering if we could move on the actual variances and then deal with the questions that would come up >> with the final plan >> that that certainly can be done because I don't the varian actions are separate from the final project. >> So I'm on the same like I'm almost ready 62 00:17:39.840 --> 00:17:54.799 to move on it. I guess the only question I have is because babe had talked about potentially walking away from the project. So if we approve the variance and not in the final plat just what whatever happens in 10 minutes happens. But if we approve the variance and babe 63 00:17:54.799 --> 00:18:11.440 decides not to develop this does does that variance stay with the land? Does that stay? >> Yeah. with the final plat is recorded the and the variants are recorded. Yes. Then that >> that is issue. >> You're only allowed what's on here though. >> Neither one will happen without the 64 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:26.720 other. >> Correct. >> We are you're you're allowing everything the the standard then here. Can I I'm going to walk through a little more. >> Yeah. Go for the procedure. So the variances are first the first action. So 65 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:42.240 those can be approved. If those are done and the final plat as a condition of the final plat, then you take up the action of the final plat. The final plat can be approved, but as our ordinance states, it is going to require a development agreement when there's development of 66 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:58.000 public infrastructure. So it may be conditions of the final plat that you need to develop that they have to have a development agreement over the you know construction of that infrastructure and those requirements are going to be negotiated between the city and the 67 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:13.760 developer. So you could still approve essentially approve or recommend approval to the of the final plat but it's going to be with those >> correct you know I was just trying to say we can go ahead and vote on the variances and then have the discussion 68 00:19:13.760 --> 00:19:30.960 where it seems to be more problematical. So, so what happens is if the final plat is approved and with the conditions and the conditions are not met, then the final plat, you know, may not be recorded or there may be other uh contingencies related to the final plat 69 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:47.600 that um one of one options are, you know, that the city may not approve a building permit for construction of the property or the homes on the property if they don't meet the conditions of the final plat. that that's something that can be 70 00:19:47.600 --> 00:20:04.960 finalized and negotiated. >> But at this point in terms of getting the land into a position in which something can happen with it, we do need to get through to the final plat. >> Correct. >> Any questions on just the variances? 71 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:20.559 >> Well, with the alley, uh, I thought people were able to build right up to it. Unless it's a fence, then it's two feet back. Is that not >> so the alley standards at some point they can build up to the alley but in this instance the alley serving almost 72 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:36.480 like a street public street. So there's a front yard and sideyard setback. So the front yard is going to have a 25 ft setback. So they can't build the house right up to the alleyway anyways because you still need you still need to have those front and sideyard rear yard 73 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:54.000 setbacks. So in terms of like normal normally an alley serves as the rear in the rear of your property and those have different standards for setbacks and this they'll be in the front. >> Okay. 74 00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:13.200 >> Any other questions on just the variances? I guess I' I'd like to make them >> either deny the variances, approve the or recommend to the city council. There's you've got two >> got both things there. 75 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:30.000 >> I'd make a recommendation to or a motion to approve the variances in front of us. >> Yeah, I'll second that. >> No. Uh Chad Johnson seconds. Any further discussion on the variances? 76 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:46.240 All in favor say I. I >> oppose. Nay. Stay. >> Now we Now we'll go on to the final plat and the development agreement which we do have in our packet. 77 00:21:46.240 --> 00:22:01.840 um which is the one that looks like >> I didn't >> you just and I or John would you like to comment before we ask Mr. or Gorman to 78 00:22:01.840 --> 00:22:19.440 comment. >> I guess so in in terms of our recommendation is that the based on the ordinance that the alley should be paved and the paving requirements would be in the area of the development. So what Mr. Gorman said about uh portions of the 79 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:35.919 alleyway that won't be paved are correct that there's a portion on the north end that would not be paved because it's not subject to the same part of the development. So, in this instance, because I mean, we're talking about creating multiple or moving around 80 00:22:35.919 --> 00:22:50.880 multiple lots and creating an uh access for for public infrastructure, which includes the the alleyways, which will serve as the streets for um for the lots that are built here. And they'll be public to to everyone. if they were uh 81 00:22:50.880 --> 00:23:08.320 as he said in his comments earlier when this back in 2018 when this was originally built brought forward for a preliminary plat the plan at that time was to develop them as private streets so the alleys were vacated um as a reminder that's why you know we're 82 00:23:08.320 --> 00:23:24.640 coming back to this since the alleys were vacated that was recorded at the county in order to rebuild these as public infrastructure we had to go through this platting process So, it is our recommendation and our standard that the alley should be paved because that's 83 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:42.159 as what it says in the in in the code. Um, our interpretation as well was with the 16 ft of of surface for the alleyway and then 8 ft of rightway on either side. I think serves well because one of the requests that came in from when we 84 00:23:42.159 --> 00:23:57.520 presented the plat was from the small utility providers like uh fiber and gas. They wanted to have a 10-ft easement on either side of the alley. And because there's eight feet of rightway already there, they can operate and serve within 85 00:23:57.520 --> 00:24:14.000 that 8ft zone. There are um some other private streets in town that have like two-foot rightaway easements which um actually I could say uh based on the project uh with Frontier and the fiber that's going in has you know certainly 86 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:30.000 creates some challenges where you're trying to provide put that infrastructure in in a two-ft zone um gets to be very tight and complicated. So um I think the 8T will serve this project well. It'll serve the utility providers. They asked for 10. We're we 87 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:47.919 we're not in including that into their what they're asking for. We're not adding that as an easement to this or requirement to the final plat to add that as an easement. We're leaving it at 8. So, >> they're all in. >> It would just um I can't see anywhere 88 00:24:47.919 --> 00:25:02.559 either the development or maybe I'm missing where we're requiring the alley be paved. >> Do I see that written somewhere in this? That's a part of that's a standard of the of the city code. >> Okay. So, it doesn't have to be written 89 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:17.600 in. >> Well, maybe I can help you here a little. This would be the only alley in the city of Canopulse that has a right away depicted in a survey. It will be the only one that is getting 90 00:25:17.600 --> 00:25:32.960 assessed to be black topped. No other alley in town that I'm aware of. that that's why I'm a little adamant about I don't need this >> and I certainly don't need to build this 91 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:50.080 and I can assure you that it's going to cost about threequarters of a million dollars to put a twin home up there. >> Yeah. I I just being that in effect is not really an alley where you have your garage sitting 92 00:25:50.080 --> 00:26:06.080 there and then the garbage truck comes through. It's more of a it's it's the actual only access to the building. So, in effect, it becomes the street. Even if it is called an alley, >> it's always been an alley. >> Yeah. >> There used to be two homes there. You're the only one here old enough other than 93 00:26:06.080 --> 00:26:23.120 me to remember that if your memor is that good. There used to be two houses set on each side of that alley. >> Right. And and there again, what we've discovered over all of the years is their zoning codes change. 94 00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:39.760 Things that were allowed originally or however they came to be as we look back say maybe that's not the best way to do things. And I think I know at least I personally want things to be done uniformly 95 00:26:39.760 --> 00:26:57.600 according to code. If we don't like the code, then we change the code. Um, but I, you know, to me, being this acts as the access point, the street type alley, um, I would certainly 96 00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:13.520 want it to be paved. >> It's an alley. You can call it a street all you want, but it's an alley. It does not have a name. It's surveyed. It's in the original plat. It's an alley. That's what it is. And you can call it whatever 97 00:27:13.520 --> 00:27:28.799 you want, but >> that I would say that I go back and say, "Then you can't build any homes on an alley. >> They don't have street access." >> If you really want to get it sat there for 30 years, in another 30 years, I'm probably not going to care much, >> right? But um 98 00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:44.480 >> so I guess >> Go ahead, >> Diane. I would I would tend to agree with you actually. I mean, I just and and as far as construction observation goes, I mean, my understanding is this gets turned back to the city once it's built. Correct. >> I mean, we'd want to make sure I I'm sure whoever does it will do a great 99 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:59.200 job, but that's just part of what we do when we have >> that's a street common standard that way. >> Why is he got to pay for the whole alley? And why why can't >> we would make any developer pay for it? >> But that's the thing. We do one talk about, oh, we want housing, we want to bring in development, and then we bring 100 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:14.480 in stuff like this. It's just this is the kind of stuff that hinders people from wanting to build around here is we can't split the cost. We can't do something like we he's building for the neighbors too. Like they're the whole it's not a big developer. 101 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:29.840 >> Bill Bill Angerman says that he wants to observe this. Correct. >> That's what I'm hearing you say. >> That's that's a stand that's a that's a common standard. >> Where's Bill been the last 12 years when the city's been black topping alleys? 102 00:28:29.840 --> 00:28:45.200 There's been no observation. I know. I've checked. I know what's going on around here. Okay. I just I don't know what to tell you. I know Billy Robinson's been paving every one of them. And the city crew has been 103 00:28:45.200 --> 00:29:01.720 prepping them rough roughly grading them. Bill takes over from there and black tops them. I've been pave I've done a lot of paving. I can take you out and I can show you some paving that I've done. 104 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:19.360 >> So can I provide just perspective too? So like what essentially is happening is this is this application is like a development. So it's a smaller scale lot smaller scale than any developments that we see. 105 00:29:19.360 --> 00:29:35.679 But he's looking at developing three residential lots. two of them would serve to have twin homes and um according to the plans there's a possibility that you could put a single family home on on the third lot but at the at the time you know when we've we've discussed what he has building 106 00:29:35.679 --> 00:29:51.520 plans for two twin homes on two two lots since I mean we have to kind of walk through what in 2018 the alleys were vacated that process went through the city council it was recorded with the county so in terms of the records with 107 00:29:51.520 --> 00:30:08.960 the counties. Those alleys do not exist. >> That's not his fault. >> He is the applicant. He is the applicant for that very that vacation, that alley vacation. He initiated that and the process at some point stalled out, didn't get through to a final plat. 108 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:24.880 We're trying to come back and and >> do it the right way. Okay. So, because the records are your original plat, yes, they were they were there in the original plat, but they don't exist today until this final plat would would 109 00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:43.840 go in. The ordinance says in 151.109 streets and alleys that the streets are going to be paved. So, if we're going to accept something, we accept it as to the to the standards that that we have. So streets also include culdeacs, major 110 00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:59.039 collectors, minor collectors, residential streets, service roads, and alleys. So it in following that that logic, that's that's where we get to. So hardwood estates, we're the the city is the developer on that. The city is even have has a development agreement with 111 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:14.559 ourselves that we're going to build things to the standards standards of the of the city code to accept them as >> this this alley is there. This would be paving an alley that's already there. >> This is a new construction, Chad. >> So the the alley well the part partially 112 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:31.120 though the alleys moved. >> Is that correct? Because the alley was not in alignment before the al portion of the alley. >> The alley needed to move. >> The roadway moved, but the alley never moved. This is exactly where it's always been. where the where the gravel was 113 00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:46.159 that is that is being used to drive over >> and and it goes back to Bernice Smith's old place and it's running in the railroad right away has for a hundred and some years. Okay, I'm that's what it 114 00:31:46.159 --> 00:32:02.880 is. And yeah, it's my fault because I had a guy that wanted to buy it, but he wanted them privatized and it the deal fell through and I put it back to and that's why I just got done moving to Culvert cuz that's where the platted alley is. 115 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:19.840 >> Okay, your entrance connection from Fifth Street. >> Those lots are 142 feet by the way in depth. I have a survey that tells that >> this the south lot in the survey did not >> the south lot does not because it runs 116 00:32:19.840 --> 00:32:37.919 into the ease or the rightway of the railroad. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Oh, so that just I that was my point of the south lot was still at in our very first conversation the south or earliest conversations south lot was still going to need a variance to meet 117 00:32:37.919 --> 00:32:53.919 the >> the pay for that cuz if you just go down that road there that it goes up to the railroad are they going to pay for their half >> no because there's no black top going there that that alley >> that alley serves that alley >> so back to back to treatment of 118 00:32:53.919 --> 00:33:11.279 developers so as in in the process of developing land within the city and creating public infrastructure. The developers are responsible for the cost of that infrastructure. However, they choose to allocate that cost after the 119 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:27.600 fact once it's been developed. That's been the practice of the city. That's what it is with Hardwood Estates. That was it is with Timber Ridge. that that is the practice when things have existed and we've gone through and made improvements like we're doing with Fourth Street over by Canon Equipment 120 00:33:27.600 --> 00:33:45.080 that's existing infrastructure that can be assessed and portions of that cost can be split between the property adjacent property owners not but when things are platted and put in they are those costs are developer costs. 121 00:33:45.279 --> 00:34:02.000 So, let me cut to the chase. Just >> I really don't know. >> I just Yeah, go ahead. You're the boss. >> I'm looking at maps. Course I I pulled up Google map, too. So, this alley wouldn't actually be paved all the way up to is that Dakota Street, the 122 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:18.639 >> because that's not a part of the development in which this the developer has control of the property. So, that would that would be what it is existing because he's not responsible for developing this. >> Seems silly. >> I'm sorry. I did. I understand there's rules and regulations, but you're you're paving 20 ft cuz he's doing 20 ft or 123 00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:33.520 whatever. It's just you go this far and then you stop. And if you naturally go, you could keep driving and you'll be on gravel. It just doesn't make much sense to me. >> Well, I'm sure that John would love to just come and pay for that part portion 124 00:34:33.520 --> 00:34:47.919 to have the city, you know, that couple hundred feet while I'm doing oh, 8,200 feet, something like that. But let me cut to the chase. I I I really don't care what you decide because I've decided I'm not going to do anything 125 00:34:47.919 --> 00:35:06.320 anyway. I'm going to give the lots to a general contracting kid that's my a my kids' age over in Northfield. And I told him, you want to have at it, have at it. If he wants to go stick more money in it, let him. I don't care. >> So, in this instance, may I Sorry, Madam 126 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:21.359 Chair. May I ask a question? >> Go ahead. So in this instance, if you don't want to serve as the developer for the end of the project after the final plat, can we work with that developer to transfer the development agreement? 127 00:35:21.359 --> 00:35:37.440 >> Can't we approve the variances and the final plat with me standing here because I'm not going anywhere soon. >> There will be there will be a requirement for a development agreement >> for the code, >> right? as a to be added on, you know, as >> and and I'll bring Pat in and he can 128 00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:54.480 >> and we can negotiate the final plat negotiate the development agreement after the final. >> I just kind of decided that I probably work hard enough and at my age I probably don't need more work. >> Okay. So, and what happens is I just end up working all the time and I don't I 129 00:35:54.480 --> 00:36:10.160 don't need it. So in terms of what we're accomplishing tonight would be the recommendation for the variances which has already been approved. The final plat with a contingency of establishing a development agreement with whomever is going to build on the property so that 130 00:36:10.160 --> 00:36:26.400 once homes are plans for homes are going to be built. We have an agreement with whomever is doing that building to develop the alleyway as acceptable to the city. But but I want you folks to all understand that Bill Angerman has 131 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:41.839 never been on that property to my knowledge. He has never overseen any alley that you have paved in this town and no one has ever been assessed for any alley before. So you're making me an 132 00:36:41.839 --> 00:36:58.800 exception. Just so you know. That's all. Oh, Julie noted from >> You don't mind making me an exception. >> I don't make any exceptions. >> Okay. >> Unless we change the code. I 133 00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:15.200 >> Well, I I can't say I never, but I mean I I would prefer we follow code. Um and I I understand we cannot go back and fix anything that has not been done correctly in the past. >> I mean, we just we just made an exception for you with your variances, I guess. 134 00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:32.400 >> Yeah. But so then when we >> you made an exception >> for the var. >> These are exceptions. >> Yeah. >> To the code. >> Right. Um so you took you took 8 ft from me which you don't in any other alley. >> I'm asking for seven of it back. >> Okay. So if we're going to approve the 135 00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:47.920 final plat we do it without the development agreement then based on >> contingent that you will negotiate a development agreement with whomever's filing for a building permit to build homes on the property. I'll make a motion to approve what's written. 136 00:37:47.920 --> 00:38:05.200 >> The approve the final plat subject to >> whoever decides to build would have to submit and have approval of of a development agreement. >> Y >> which would be taken up with the city council. >> This this recommendation will go to the 137 00:38:05.200 --> 00:38:21.599 city council. >> No, but I mean the development agreement >> development agreement would be yes can be with approved finally by the city council >> with the planning commission. Correct. you would be done with the planning commission. >> But we're not >> Hey, I'm not through with you yet. >> We're not but we're not in but we're not 138 00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:37.720 approving any development agreement tonight then. Just final plat >> with the condition that whoever develops it has to >> have a development agreement approved. And Chad, you made that motion. >> Yeah. >> Would someone like to second 139 00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:54.240 roll? I I yeah, I I I'd second that. I I mean, I like what we see here was the same as the preliminary plat. I get that a lot of different things have happened since then, but I understood the preliminary 140 00:38:54.240 --> 00:39:11.359 plat. I liked it then. I understand it now. I'm still in agreeance. That's why I would second that motion. >> Okay. So, >> before can we say one thing? Okay. Just >> Well, well, if let me get a motion here. So, we have All right. Move. Second. >> Chris, did you second? Okay. Now, further discussion. further. Just ask. 141 00:39:11.359 --> 00:39:28.599 I'm looking at Sixth Street North. Is that paved up to the alley? I'm trying to remember. I drove back there and I'm trying to remember. >> Six Street. You're never going to drive on Sixth Street. >> Okay. Cuz I show this Sixth Street North. >> That's gravel. >> And there's the alley down here. >> This is This is 142 00:39:31.680 --> 00:39:47.680 >> by the Pete Christensen and the Muddy Duck. >> Here. See? >> Where did you get this map? >> It was in this is here. This is Sixth Street right there. Got your pen. This is Sixth Street right here. Right there is Sixth Street. Okay. This is wrong. 143 00:39:47.680 --> 00:40:02.079 >> Oh, okay. >> That is an alley. >> Okay. So, it's an alley all the way through here. >> See here? >> 16 foot paved alley right? Yes. It's an alley all the way to Dakota here. Okay. This is Dakota. >> See, and that's what I was I was getting confused because I'm like, why is this on GIS? Because you got that off the 144 00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:17.040 county and that's wrong. Sixth Street is actually over here. It's that long and that's it. And then it goes on the other side of the malt house over here and shows back up. >> I saying it's weird if it just >> this address is Sixth Street. >> Yep. 145 00:40:17.040 --> 00:40:33.920 >> Okay. And the mailbox is out here for it. Always was. >> I didn't even notice that. >> I remember I remember driving back there and I thought that was that was an alley. >> There used to be two homes here. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Are you clear where you're at now? 146 00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:49.440 Okay. >> Thanks. Okay. Other Other comments, discussion on the motion and this is just to approve the final plat with the condition that whoever develops it has to have a development agreement 147 00:40:49.440 --> 00:41:04.720 approved. >> It can go to the city council now. >> Yeah. This is our recommendation to the city council. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Are we comfortable to vote? >> Yeah. All in favor of approving the final plat conditional upon a 148 00:41:04.720 --> 00:41:22.480 development agreement with future builder say I. >> I. >> Oppos? Nay. >> So moved. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Uh motion to adjurnn. >> Oh just yeah I I was going to say two 149 00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:39.280 two things is next council meeting is week from tomorrow May 19th. I believe we've now established an extra planning commission meeting on June 1st at 6:30. And then the comprehensive plan openhouse 150 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:57.119 meeting is uh a week from tomorrow on May 19th from 4 to 6:00 p.m. Everybody is invited. Not only people who live in Can Falls, but if you work here um uh shop here, dine here. Uh everybody's opinion and insights and suggestions are 151 00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:14.160 welcome. They'll have it all set up and spread the word. We have posters if anybody needs them. Any other announcements from anybody? Now we can have a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Does that mean who moved? Chris, 152 00:42:14.160 --> 00:42:31.240 >> you did motion. >> Chris Chad. All in favor of adjourning say I. >> I thought it was like a whole book that you had. Okay. No, no, no.