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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=6osySjAM9kc

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Afternoon everyone. Today is June 9th, 2026. We are at 100 Pulk Avenue in Cape Canaveral, Florida at the city hall council chambers for a Cape Canaveral city council workshop meeting. I call this meeting to order.

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With that, Council Member King, would you please lead us in the pledge? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all. >> City clerk, please call the role. >> Mayor Prom Jackson, >> here. >> Council member King >> here. Mayor Morrison >> here, >> Council Member Shiaak >> here, >> and Council Member Willis >> here.

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>> City Council, thank you all for being here. City staff and everyone joining us from the community today. Greatly appreciate your time at this time. Uh we we have public participation uh on the agenda as the next item, but uh if the council uh

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desires the the first item 5.1 beach in paid parking program, we are receiving a presentation and it is up to the council, but I thought the

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community would have the opportunity to hear the presentation first and so the idea would be we receive the presentation allow the entire room to hear that and then uh open it up to the public and then we'll come back to the council. So

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we'll hear the presentation all together. We will then be able to hear the public and then the council I think will have all the information to conduct this workshop. Council any thoughts on that or

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>> I think it's the way to go. Let's do a motion. >> Make a motion to adjust the uh order of um the agenda to allow presentation first and public participation. >> A second. >> Got a motion by council member Willis

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and a second by council member King. Any further discussion on the matter? City clerk, please call the role. >> Mayor Prom Jackson, >> Council Member King, >> Mayor Morrison, >> four. Council member Sharia, >> four.

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>> And Council Member Willis, >> four. >> All in favor. Thank you. And for those of you that do intend to speak during the workshop, we do ask that you please fill out a comment card. Those are provided up front. And if you uh provide that here to one of our deputies or city

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clerk, we'll make sure that you're heard. You got some time to do that. So, uh, city manager, at this time, do you want to go to the presentation or do you have some opening remarks you'd like to make? >> I have some remarks, mayor. Thank you.

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And thank you, council, for entertaining uh, these two items today in this workshop fashion. Uh, the concept of paid parking has been something that was brought to my attention when I was hired back in August. And, uh again, thank you for the public for being out here. These

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are two important issues that bear discussing uh publicly so that we can get community input. Uh I think it's important to note that there have been no decisions made on whether or not the city of Cape Canaveral is going to implement a paid parking program. The only decision made is to direct staff uh

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to review the issue and present to council its findings. And part of that review is to present to council the comments that uh you know the community has to make whether they're in person at the podium or via email or phone call uh

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however those comments are presented. Uh this council is dedicated to hearing from its constituents uh in a manner that is appropriate uh to conduct this business. And so that's what we want to do. Uh implementing a paid parking program does not happen overnight. It's something that takes time. It takes

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research and it takes diligence on the part of your city staff and on the part of your elected officials to do the right thing on behalf of the citizens of Cape Canaveral and anyone who should visit here or be a seasonal resident. Uh so this is not an easy decision. It's not something that anybody takes

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lightly. It's something that we want to make sure we do our due diligence. And I can tell you that your staff is dedicated to finding out all the information and presenting the facts to this council and to the community uh to the extent we're able to uncover them. Uh we it also didn't come without some

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data and that we gathered and we worked diligently to do that. Uh but this is a five-step process and the f after being directed to look into paid parking which happened last uh August last August and we've been talking about it in public

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meetings for some time. So, I just want to, you know, uh, dissuade any opinions that this is something that happened overnight. We've been talking about paid parking since last August. And there is a brief history, as many of you know, that the city did entertain a paid parking uh, initiative years ago, and it

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did not implement that initiative. It did involve the use of parking meters. This initiative does not involve the use of parking meters. Uh, so that is something that the the citizens can, you know, listen up for. But it's a five-step process. We already had step one which was staff did its homework and

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you know probed uh the best ways to pursue this matter and then present what it felt was the best way to pursue that and that resulted in uh you know a vendor emerging and that's T2 Systems and they're here today to present uh to the council uh what they have to offer

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in the way of its platform uh and and the city council will have an opportunity to ask all those questions as will um the community and and then it will make its decision. Do do we like T2 or do we want to go with another vendor or do we want to scrub this idea

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altogether? You know, so we're in a factf finding mode and we're in a public presentation mode and everyone's input is relevant and I'm sure the council will be receptive to that. So that's step two. Step three, should this council want to continue with this initiative, will be potentially another

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workshop at a date to be set uh to discuss what it would look like to have an ordinance and internal policies that would manage a paid pay to park policy or program. And that workshop will be advertised and will be open to the public and public will be able to

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comment. And once the directions are made then then uh if if we are to continue to proceed then the city attorney will be directed to promagate an ordinance. It's a two meeting process and uh the comment period will continue during those two council meetings and

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then ultimately if council decides then uh it'll be implemented and there will be a lot of things that would happen. So it's not going to happen overnight. Uh we're, you know, the community, the council and the staff are very sensitive to community concerns and so we just kind of wanted to address those things

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before we got started. Uh the desire to not charge residents has always been expressed by this council and that has not changed and I think you'll hear that throughout these proceedings. Uh but it would it bears you know discussing on how we go about that in ordinance

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format. So the purpose of today's workshop is to hear from the vendor and to ask the vendor questions on how it can best provide services to the city of Cape Canaveral. The council is going to weigh in, get their questions answered, and the public will also be able to weigh in and get their questions

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answered and then a determination on how we proceed from today will then take place. So I appreciate you all indulging me in that regard. And mayor, thank you for the opportunity to make those comments. >> Thank you, council. Any comments before

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we go to the presentation uh from T2 Systems? >> Not at this time. >> Thank you. Okay. Representative here from T2 Sensitives >> Systems, please come forward. Welcome. >> Thank you.

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>> The floor is yours. >> Thank you so much. >> Uh good afternoon everybody and thank you to the council for inviting us to be here today. My name is Sebastian Ortega. Um, and I believe this is not the first slide if you Oh, I think I have a remote

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ring. There we go. Yes. Uh, so I'm the regional sales manager for Florida for T2 Systems and I actually live in Miami. So, and on a personal note, my son is starting later this month at UCF as a freshman. So, I love the opportunity to

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be up here more often just from that standpoint. I have uh 20 years plus of uh parking experience both on the operations side and then obviously on the technology sales side. I do want to say uh like it was mentioned this is a

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platform that can be used if the city moves forward with this program and if it doesn't you don't need it. And then I also have uh with me Jack Dwire. He works for its partner of T2 Systems. They're more involved on the parking

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space station installation side, but he was um the um manager for for the parking program program at Narna for over a decade. They they decided a while back to start paid parking and he went through that whole ordinance process. Um

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the agenda is very simple. I'm very briefly just going to tell you who T2 Systems is and what what sets us apart. Uh and then I'll get right into it. How can visitors pay for parking if it's implemented? How can residents sign up

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for their permits? And I heard a commitment those permits can be zero dollar. Um and uh then how will the city enforce parking? Because as we all know, um you know, if we don't enforce it, the visitors that do come will figure that

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out pretty fast. Uh and then for the uh for Keith and his office what the management portal looks like um on on that end. And then finally we also in our proposal we can handle all the

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citation and collection services for the city. So there's no additional administrative cost uh to the city beyond the implementation costs of this solution. And at the end you'll see how much it costs. Very very very cheap. So if the program doesn't work

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out after feedback from the residents, the city will be at a net positive in revenue. I heard the nightmare from the past. So uh T2 systems uh these are our values. We want to cultivate our

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customers into raving fans. the customer being the city and of course they want the residents to be ra fans of the administration and the commissioners. So that's very much aligned. Uh we strive to be the leader in the core markets that we serve and presently we are uh

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and we internally want to do the same thing for our employees so that people love what they do. They want me happy and I am happy. So uh we've been around for over 30 years doing just this. Uh we have over 300 employees, over 2,000 city

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customers and universities. Uh we do $2 billion plus of revenue that we collect for cities and universities and that gets transferred daily by AC. Um and we have over 9,000 municipal and university

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customers nationwide and we have a couple dozen right here in the state of Florida. T2 was acquired by Vera Mobility. So we're a public uh company. So um in addition to T2 serving municipalities

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and universities, Vera Mobility has government solutions. They do the road safety cameras and the toll by plate out on the on the roads. They do the fleet management um for car rental agencies in the commercial sector.

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And as you can see, we did n over 900 billion last year in uh revenue and we're publicly traded. So you can go check out all that information. It's available. And we have the largest most active uh community of customers,

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meaning um city officials, enforcement officers, police departments, we have a way that they can get online and talk to each other, answer their own questions or talk to us on the technology. And a lot of our technology is actually has functionality and features that are

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based on feedback from this community. So usually when city of Cape Canaveral has a need, it's say bet other cities have it and we implement it and that is all automatically then uh updated on a late daily basis to everyone. So you

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don't have to ask can we get that you'll have it. >> Okay, Sebastian, if you don't mind, I'm just going to pause for a second. the microphone. Is that picking him up? I think we have people that potentially I just want to It sounds like it is. >> My finger hit it. >> It Yeah, it's certainly on, but I just

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want to make sure. >> Stay close. >> You're aware that if you speak in the mic, that would be really helpful. I think it's turned up because I hear it amplified. But are we able to confirm it's picking him up? Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it.

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>> And uh if someone gives me one of these, I'll talk louder. Should I start over? >> And these are a bunch of the aspects of our overall solution that we provide. We're not going to be going over I'm not going to bore you with stuff that the city doesn't need. I'm going to jump

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right in into the actual things that would be implemented if you move forward. >> I'm not an expert with these microphones, as you can see. So the core system that we propose is our up safety um parking and enforcement

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solution. Uh so it's really how does the city collect those revenues if they move forward? How can residents easily without any heartburn register their vehicles for their their permits? uh and

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how does the city enforce you know how do you check quickly if someone has a permit or if someone paid for parking um and other aspects which we will get into. Uh our support is 247

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365 days a year. Our systems rarely break or experience problems, but when they do, our standard level agreement is that within an hour or less, we will be working to fix that system. Luckily, the

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proposal for City of Cape Canaveral has very few components and is very straightforward. So, I don't see that we would have downtime very often, if at all. And I mentioned earlier, new features that come from feedback from our

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customers are updated regularly and they automatically become functionality that is accessible to all the cities and universities that we serve. We don't send you a new bill for new stuff every month.

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Our real time enforcement is done on the street. It updates immediately into the system. So the city can see in their management office what's going on on the ground. We're going to show you a picture of our handheld devices real quick, which is

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how you're able to see if somebody has paid for parking or has a permit. And the patron portal is fully customizable and white label. What that means for you as residents is you go online to the city's website and let's say you want a permit. It's the city's

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website. You don't see T2 or any commercials or advertisements. You just get to do uh what you need just like every other service that you're used to. And uh for the city, you'll give us the right logos, the right branding. You know, you can customize the verbiage. If

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you proceed, you'll have ordinances that that can become part of the of your website. I thought I would start with uh visitors and uh residents. What you'll see at the uh beach parking, which is not much of a change from now. This is what a sign

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looks like. It's obviously generic. It'll have your city logo and specific information uh just for you. So, if you're visiting, not a resident, you just pull up, you take out your phone, you can scan the QR code, it'll

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automatically take you to the the web portal, or you can text the zone number, which will be on the sign, and it'll just take you straight. You'll put in your vehicle information, your payment information, and you'll be all set.

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Um, and then later if you're on the beach and you decide you want to stay longer, you can extend your parking. You don't have to have to go back to the car. And and like we said earlier, there's you won't see much of a change besides a couple of these signs. For the

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residents, you don't have to do anything. You'll already have your permits. The patron portal is an e-commerce portal. It'll again be part of your uh website. uh residents can go on there. You can register your vehicle. You just put in your vehicle description and

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license plate number. The city as part of the ordinance and your feedback will decide uh should you maybe put your car registration do you know uh different cities do different things. They might want a copy of the of the electric bill. One thing that we will do is

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automatically upload all of the resident addresses into the system. So, the system will already know if it's a valid address. You just might have to show some form of uh proof that it's actually you. And you can register multiple cars. You can get multiple uh permits. It's

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not just one one per family. And and as far as permits, that'll be decided here, but they can be anything from 1 hour permits to one year. >> Yes. Am I being signaled?

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Um, and these systems are fully encrypted with federal level uh protection of customer data. Like I said, we're we're publicly traded, so we're held to a higher standard than companies that are not publicly traded.

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This is what the e-commerce site would look like except with your label and logo. You don't have to go on a computer. You can do it from your tablet. You can do it from your phone. As you can see here, there's a couple of examples of the different types of permits. If we proceed with this program

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at Cape Canaveral, that'll be based on your feedback and the city commissioners what type of duration the permits have. And again, they can be zero dollar They don't they don't have to cost. Also, if you're a visitor and you

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receive a ticket on your car because you didn't pay for parking or it expired, you can pay that directly from your your phone as well. These these are the enforcement handhelds. You can see they're very simple. the the base component is a

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Samsung Galaxy smartphone. Uh in our proposal to the city, you have the all-in-one device which comes with a rugged case. It's very difficult to break. It has the attachment there which has a you know a scanner. So whoever the worker for the city is that has that

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they just go through to all the beach areas and scan the license plates and it tells them if someone hasn't paid for parking. It tells them if this is a permit. Um, also, uh, scuff flaws, like you might have a visitor that decides to take advantage of the city of Cape

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Canaveral and constantly get tickets and say they're not going to pay them. Well, this will let the enforcement officer know that. Um, and part of the ordinance can include, you know, after the third time you get towed or, you know, there's all kinds of things that that you can do

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as far as consequences. Um, and it's also in a lot of, you know, let's say you forgot to get your permit and you do get one of these, it can it'll be set up u with the ordinances that you just say it's you. You do the

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um the uh the word is not complaint, but you just right there on the portal you say, I'm a resident and you get the permit and that can be uh taken off. Again, it's not us. It's all part of what the city chooses the rules are going to be.

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And also it it has a printer. So it literally prints the citation and all the information on the citation will uh be what the the city wants it to say. It'll have a picture of the license plate so visitors can verify that indeed it was their vehicle that got ticketed.

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It'll have the date stamp and it has uh tire chalking. So you you know you can add up to 10 pictures in the portal but only the license plate picture will be part of the ticket. I already covered all these points.

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This is what it would look like for the enforcement person. Um, they would take a picture of the car. We have integration with the Florida DMV and many out of states. So, it automatically populates the registered owner of the vehicle.

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You can see in the green it says no scuff law. um you know this is a permit and so the other two things are not necessary. It's we don't have an automatic in uh integration with the uh police department but the police department can

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send if um to the the city operators. Let's say there's a stolen vehicle or any kind of other license plate um and it can be put on a blacklist here. So the enforcement officer would know right away to contact the authorities if one

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of those situations came up. Um a lot of this is the rights that you put in the parking because a lot of different cities do different things. This could be unlimited as long as you pay. It could only be during certain hours. Um it's easy to change the the

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you know some some beach each where I live on holidays it's a different rate or on weekends it's a different rate than during the weekdays. So all of that will be instant in the up in the handheld device and in the back office system.

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And this is what the city employees would see as far as the the dashboard. Everything is in real time. These tiles is just drag and drop. So you can change this up. Uh the system's very user friendly like any of your favorite

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websites already. Um and in fact the first time you log in it'll take you on a it'll take you on a little tour of the main functionality um and how to use it. And it handles everything from the revenue collection to the uh citations

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handling to automated letters and notices. Uh let's say somebody does get a parking violation because they didn't pay for their parking. It has let's say a 14-day you have to pay and then after that we start taking over with some of that

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collections process and it's all here in in one system. the reports. I mean, we have so many uh cities and universities that we have over 25 custom reports and they're probably going to be more than enough

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for you to see the information that you need to see as far as from a operation standpoint. But these reports, you can take your favorite ones um and you can say I don't need this field and I want that field. The back office is very easy to use. Of course, we have 24/7 customer

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support if the city needs help with that. Um, but uh it's extremely robust system and it exports to Excel to to aid in all of the accounting functions and you can uh set

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up automatic reports of different types to go let's say there might be one that the city manager wants to see on a weekly basis. uh accounting will probably want to see a report on a daily basis so they can reconcile with what's in the bank. Um

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or you can run it anytime you want, but there's a cadence that you can set up. So it's very easy and I won't beat a dead horse, but I mean there's a ton of customization and enhancements that you can do on a daily basis based on feedback. One thing I

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didn't cover earlier, but when you when when you have the um on your phone or tablet or a computer, the city can also put uh you know uh businesses in the area can also put advertisement like coupons that they might be offering for

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residents and stuff like that. And you can also send uh public service messages through that that involve parking and it'll show up right on your phone. And this is just a couple of screenshots. These are this is a heat map example which shows you where all of

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the paid parking and enforcement activities are are uh going on. You can see which route your enforcement personnel are taking, how long are they staying somewhere. It helps you later analyze, you know, we need more enforcement in this part of the beach um

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because it's more popular, less over here. It helps you allocate resources efficiently. And each one of these little dots is where citation has uh been issued and when and you can um in operations zoom

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in and see the vehicle, the information, what were the scenario, you know, exactly what's going on with it. And there's a hearings and dispute uh function that was not part of this uh uh proposal um because we are doing the

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citation and collection services that we proposed and I'll show you that in just a moment. So, our collections and services department is licensed with the American collector uh collections association, ADA, fair

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housing debt collections. This is all they do. Just paid parking violation uh collections. They don't do uh any other any other type. Uh we have experienced agents which are not emotional. They're

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just there to call you and and work with you to get your citations paid. It doesn't matter if you have a hundred of them or if this is uh your first first one. It's all very fair treatment. We have access to all the databases. For example, if someone is going through a

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bankruptcy proceeding, uh you know, then we know to stay stay away stay away from them. Also, state debt um relief programs, we have those databases. So, um you don't have to worry about uh this

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department offending visitors, right? Because we want our visitors to come back. If they have a citation, we want to collect it. But, um we more importantly than that, we we love our visitors to our cities. And we do uh skip tracing. And what that

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just means is that we have several systems that we pay for that we can find accurate information as to people's uh addresses and contact information. And our call center system can make uh 300 calls an hour. I think we do 11,000

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uh a day. So when someone picks up, we can talk to them. Um this is we were asked by the city if if there was some kind of a revenue uh projection. So obviously to calculate

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some possible uh revenue benefit to the city we have to use numbers. So these numbers are are nothing that is part of uh this particular city. For example $3.50 50 cents an hour. We have to put in something that we're going to charge

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an hour. That's not that's not an actual number right now for you. And then these are assumptions. If the parking program is implemented, we'll know for sure how the city of Cape Canaveral works. But this basically says

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parking is open 365 days a year. You might have someone from the city. We just put 16 hours a day, right? Uh uh I don't think there's a lot of uh parking going on in the in the overnight. Um and a turnover of twice per parking space.

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It's probably more during the week. It's probably less on weekends. Occupancy is probably sold out on weekends and holidays um and launches. And right now I was just there this morning uh and there's not you know that many vehicles.

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But based on these assumptions and also you know let's say that uh we collect we do six citations 6.5 citations a day. These are kind of the numbers we were playing with. Again they're assumptions but as you can see uh the total

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potential uh revenue if these come to fruition is over 475,000 to the city for the year. As you can see because there's no big pay stations. It's all mobile and subscription services to the city.

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You'll see year one, the capital cost to the city is about $10,000. If you do the math on these numbers, that's paid the first 5 days the parking program is implemented. After that is it's all revenue to the city. Um, and if these assumptions are too aggressive,

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probably within two weeks and after that it's all revenue to the city. And then after that it's about $4,400. Um, and that's just the annual subscription for the up safety solution and all of the u stuff that goes on

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behind the scenes. That's per year. And that's all that I have. >> Sebastian, thank you. Thank you very much for taking the time to present that to our our community and this council. Uh

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it I assume that's all you have at this time. We are going to go to public comment and I think we're going to hear some >> uh from the community and questions arise. I assume you're able to stay here and in the event we can >> uh ask questions

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>> from council first. So, so the goal was to receive the presentation uh and then go to public comment. There are any initial questions uh before hearing from the public? >> We we can we can ask now. Mayor Pertim

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Jackson, >> um I just wanted to uh thank you Sebastian for coming today. We appreciate you giving us this information. Can you step me through um the enforcement process with because

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what I'm seeing and you have to bear with me because I'm in technology um is very great process you all have. You have the a customer portal that's uh nice nicely designed. Uh you can text or

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use a QR code. So that takes away some of the technology challenges for people that may be um technology challenged. >> Yes. >> Being able to do a text instead. But can you step me through the enforcement

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process because that's the most manual process for your whole product. So uh can you step me through what happens with that? Because when you look at manual, then you look at the fact that we might miss some of the enforcement.

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>> Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for the question. And you actually just reminded me in addition to the the text and the QR, there's also going to be a phone number there. Some some people love to call and speak to somebody. And some people love to go to s like for their

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permits uh go to city halls and talk to the people that work there and and they need help. So, you'll just be able to help them with that, too. I should mention so totally uh the the technology for people that are not familiar with technology or don't like it there's

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plenty of options. Uh so the enforcement is manual only from the standpoint that you'll have someone holding that uh device which again is a smartphone with the attachment. Um, and they'll just go from beach node to beach node and walk

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by the vehicles and the device will scan the license plates and it'll show them right away, keep walking or it'll say, "Ah, uh, here's here's a person that hasn't paid and doesn't have a permit." And then right then and there, the system populates the information from

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the vehicle based on the license plate. and the ticket prints out and they put that ticket citation on the windshield and then keep going to the the next vehicle. Uh but that's really all it takes.

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>> Okay. So, in your cities that utilize this for beach parking? Um are there cities that choose to just not charge for parking after a certain time? For example, beach parking you'd charge for

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might be on weekends from, you know, 9 in the morning till 5 and then you're not charging after hours because of the fact that you would have someone that has to go through all of your beach spots to to read them. So, I'm I'm

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asking this because at what point um does this become a situation where we're not really generating revenue because we have to have someone available to enforce those manually with a handheld

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who has a salary, >> right? >> So, at what point are we making money or when you consider that and how do the other cities do that? Uh so just by the fact that you'll have signs and there is paid parking there's many people like me

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that you know I'm not going to wait around. So you will immediately start collecting revenue. The enforcement is for frequent visitors that you know uh pay attention and they say well you know I wonder like if I'm here for just 30

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minutes right I just want to go for uh a walk and then uh next time it's an hour next time it's 2 hours. So you have the enforcement more so that folks like that can see that you know they will get a uh a citation. But to answer your question

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directly during implementation we'll help you set all that up. Maybe not so much from an enforcement standpoint, but maybe during the week, uh, you know, when it's not a holiday or or a special event, maybe you do want, uh, zero

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parking during certain hours, or maybe you want a different rate. Uh, likewise, maybe on holidays and launch days and really busy periods, you want maybe a higher rate. Um, so we'll do that all

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for you in the implementation and we'll train you how you can change that any time that that you want. The the beach that I go to a lot during the week it's per hour. On weekends it's you have to pay for eight hours uh no matter how

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long how long you're you're there. Uh, right. Holidays usually have different rates. some of our beach customers, it's uh you pay for two hours. Let's say instead of 350 an hour, it's 350 for two hours and then you extend. Um you can

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even set maximums like during holidays like maximum eight hours. Uh so you can do all of that stuff. The enforcement just comes in again like I said to uh ensure compliance from from those folks that sometimes try to bend the rules or

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see what kind of rules can be broken. Okay. And that is I appreciate all of your answers and this will be my last statement. We live in a city where literally I had a one of uh uh our residents that let me know a situation

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he runs into is literally people park right in front of his house in the middle of the street. He will advise them uh you can't park in the middle of the street. You're blocking my driveway. and they say, "Oh, I'll be brought back.

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I'm going down for a launch and I'll it just it will be a few minutes." And they just leave and leave their cars there. So, we have challenges within this city that a lot of other cities may not have. And so, it's going to be a challenge, I

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think, to capt capture the data on things like that. And literally, they won't be in a spot, you know. So, just as we look at what we're doing, I think we're going to have some challenges that other cities don't have. And thank you for all your answers.

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>> Yeah, that's a great point. And actually, >> uh not every city has that, but many do. Um and already part of the the system is you could do that type of uh violation and you can issue a warning or you can issue a citation. Of course, uh during

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this initial phase, there won't be somebody in those streets with a handheld. Uh but if we decide to add that to uh to the up safety solution, it can maybe be the the the the police department has a public aid officer that

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has another handheld and when the resident calls and says, you know, I've already been nice to this guy, but day after day he keeps parking here, then that officer could go issue that. So, we could literally utilize this on our city

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streets where parking is not allowed on the street. And I've seen it myself. I've u texted our city manager after hours, bless his heart, um and said all of Surf Drive has people up and down at

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parked on the sides. And in this case it was a holiday I believe and the sheriff have had already been there and cited the people. Um but as we look at parking we have multiple challenges. So this

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would allow us to utilize that tool in that circumstance also when there's not a spot where they can pay and they just should not be parked there. >> Yep. This system has that already. It's already part of the pricing. The only additional would be like a handheld or

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we even do uh vehicle LPR, which is a little bit more, but the public aid might have a vehicle, right? If you're going to go to different neighborhoods, maybe you just have that LPR and it goes directly to the handheld and you have the printer for the citation. >> Okay. I promise that was my last

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statement for now. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Council Member Willis. Uh, yes. On your on your example of your numbers, I know you had to put something in the >> in the spot, but um was 70%

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something that uh you run into. What is what is the norm? >> Yeah, 70 there is no norm unfortunately because of the popularity of certain cities over another one combined with how many available parking spaces. But

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that 70% is if you you know 365 days a year because right now it's you know like 5%. So typical is 50 to 70% for uh for beach towns. Uh no actually up to

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85%. So 70 is like a middle number. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um but I can send that uh spreadsheet and maybe um u maybe Keith's office already has it and and you can do different actually the finance um

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director. >> Yeah. >> Ask me to run put different scenarios in there. I think they're collecting information for you. So you may be getting different scenarios soon. >> So are we getting a sensitivity table? Okay. All right. Well, where we I ran

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some cursory numbers and wanted to be a little more pessimistic. >> Sure. Yeah. >> So, even if we went to 35%. I mean, that's $147,000. But, you know, what what does that cover? But, you know, just to just to

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give it some reality because as you said, you can go down to the beach ends today and there's not many people parked there. But now to uh Mayor Pro Tim's part um comments about uh additional parking. When we have a launch, people

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fill up the beach ends and then they're on the streets everywhere. So if if we were to go to something like this, we need the ability to police all of it, the good days and then the overflow that

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comes from those good days. >> Right. >> So that's my main concern on that. So, thank you, >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes, Council Member Keane. >> Thank you. I do have a question. Um, dynamic pricing. Is there the ability

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for us to charge more if a certain percentage of the parking spaces are taken for, in other words, charge more for the vacant parking spaces because of that level that has already been achieved? >> That's a great question. And you can set

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those uh parameters uh in the system and you can play with those um parameters if they don't work the first time. Yes. Um uh it's not yet to the point where it's we're obviously working on it because everyone is but implementing AI into the

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system where you can now just instead of setting the parameters based on the feedback that you're getting in the future, you'll be able to give the AI within these boundaries. You can adjust this in the minuteby minute. But right now it's not that dynamic. But it is

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dynamic enough that anything that you select to put initially, we can put it and then you can adjust it as as you go. >> I don't like the airlines. If you're late getting a seat, you pay more. >> Yeah. >> Thank you, >> Council Member Willis. Uh yeah, a

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followup to u Council Member King's question. When an individual goes to your app to pay for parking, are they notified of what that rate is? So, if we go to

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something more dynamic, they're going to know right then. >> Yes, absolutely. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Council member Shoryak, any questions at this time? >> No. >> I've got a few questions. Uh, but I think I'm going to just pause for now.

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All great. checking back. Anything else, council, before we hear from the public, city manager, any at this time? >> Uh, no, but just a reminder to the public when they come to the podium to state their name and address and please speak into the microphone.

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>> Thank you, Sebastian. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. I'm sure you'll be close. And uh with that, we'll go ahead and hear from the public. >> Thank you, Mayor. It was my pleasure. Thank you, everyone. >> Okay, great. just to re uh overcommunicate. I've got looks like

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I've got four cards here and if it is your intent to speak, you can bring it to our city clerk and we'll make sure you're heard. U try to take them in the order that I have them up here. As the city manager said, ask you please state your name and and speak clearly into the

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microphone. This uh little light system in front of me, we have 3 minutes for public comments. When there's about 30 seconds left, uh the yellow light will come on and then at the end of the 3 minutes, uh the red light will buzz and end. And we do ask that you please uh

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wrap it up at that point. Thank you all again. uh just want to emphasize that our appreciation for this uh time out of your day to come help us as a community make make it learn more

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at the phase we're in and ultimately if uh anything advances per the council's desire we're doing this together and so I know that this afternoon's time is not good for many working families and folks and I think our next workshop will will

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be factoring that in to to potentially uh hold it at a time that's um available to another um group here within our city. So the first card uh that I have is Kelly Harrington.

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>> Hello. >> Oh, I am sorry. This is uh never assume I assumed. Uh yeah, this looks like it's on mobility mats on the crossover, but it's not related to the parking issue. Is this

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just a general comment? Uh I don't related to either of the two items that we have tonight. Uh let me just check. We've got parking, parking, parking, and parking. The remaining are parking. City attorney, uh

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we got four cards. one of the four is not related to either item on this. Uh would it be appropriate to >> the sub the subject matter is for a workshop is on the stated on the agenda. So that's typically you you entertain

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public comment relevant to the agenda. I mean that's the general rule unless the council wants to make an an exception. There's also a council meeting next week um where the person can come and present a different issue comments in writing.

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>> I don't want to be respectful of your time, Mr. Harrington, as well as we're going through this. Uh council, uh >> Mr. >> It would be my Yes, >> Mr. Mayor. It's three minutes. I think we can give one of our people three minutes.

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>> Does anyone oppose to let Mr. Harrington go up front? If you'd like, we we'll go ahead and hear your comments now and please come forward. State your name and >> hi, my name is Kelly Harrington. I just live on Jackson Avenue and I may not be

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the only resident that's ever inquired about this, but as most people know, there are several mobility mats on several of the street crossovers. one of which was one street north of me. I did go to public works several years

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ago when I first moved here. That's where I was told to go to to who's in charge of the mobility mats. And uh the individual I spoke to said that it's all based on turtle season and your

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street doesn't meet ADA. And that contradicted because I went over to Monroe and there's a steeper incline to cross over for someone maybe perhaps with a wheelchair or walking devices

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than what Jackson Avenue possesses. So I guess I'm just asking why can all the streets not have it or have them? Why can we all have them? >> Thank you for your question. as our city

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attorney said, uh, because you you've raised a good one. Uh, we'll we'll be having a council meeting at the next one and, uh, I I'm sure if you were able to reach out to our city manager, he can certainly answer your question. In short, I know there's a

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process to get those, but uh, I know that that's something this community has expressed, so you're not the only one. Thank you. Are there any other comments not related to the agenda? I'd just like to get those out of the way up front.

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Everything that I see is here. And with that, we'll move through. Mr. George Eustace, we ask that you please state your name and address before speaking. Thank you, Mr. Eustace.

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>> My name is George Eustace. I'm president of Artisia Condominium at 425 Pierce Avenue. Um, we just want to consider some exemptions to or people for free parking. Like we have a worker that comes during the week to work and

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sometimes we don't have parking for him in our uh overflow spaces and he has to park in public parking. Is there a you have to consider that kind of thing and perhaps give him a freebie like a

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resident because he's working there otherwise he's going to be losing 250 an hour on his pay if that's what you're charging. That was one consideration. The other one is you have some volunteer events that you run on the beach

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and uh somehow you need to set up so the volunteers don't have to pay to volunteer. uh like when you do the uh sea oats planning, the turtle people that come and check the turtles daily. That's

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another one that happens. Those kind of things, beach cleanups. So, you want to consider somehow giving an exemption to those kind of groups. Maybe you could give a one day exemption for people that sign up if obviously the organization

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has some leader that could give you a a list of license plate numbers. Seeing this thing whole triggers off the license plate number. And the only other thing that I was thinking about is some of our residents have their kids come for the day visiting. Uh but it appears

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that they could just sign up their kids as part of their their unit if they wanted to because like the kids live in Orlando and they'll come out for the day to visit, you know, Sunday dinner, that kind of stuff. Just something just to consider some of these

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off the types the normal things. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Eustus. >> You're welcome. >> You have count comment. Council member Willis. Hello. >> I just wanted to ask if u the

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application if we were to go with something like that, could it >> could it be suspended for certain events at a keystroke? >> Yeah. Actually, what you can do in the back office is uh set up a different

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permit type, right? Like this is a SP like the we were talking about the the sea turtles. That could be a permit that's good on on those days and the person could be a zero cost permit where you register the visi visitor registers

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their vehicle and maybe they um you know you have them show some proof that they >> Well, my my question is more when we have uh seats planning those are at every crossover in the city. Um we don't

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exactly know who is going to be coming that day. So would there be any possibility within your application to say okay on this date between these times we're suspending all fees? Yeah. In a scenario like that you yeah you'll

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be able to uh do it in the back office uh portal. Um and um when when somebody that doesn't know goes because they see there's a sign to to paid parking and they go to put their vehicle

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information, it'll just say Z. >> Okay. All right. That that's it. Thank you. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. Um addressing Mr. Eustace's uh suggestions. I don't see him there. He's kind of behind the um volunteers for doing beach cleanup are

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typically residents. So they would already be um absolved through permitting, right? No. Am I wrong? >> Really? Okay. >> Beautiful. >> I'm sorry. >> Okay. Okay.

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>> We want to make sure to keep it not go back and forth with the public. But excellent question. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mayor. If I could interject. >> Yes. Uh so um these are great questions and that's what we have ordinances for and what if if the council should choose

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to move forward with paid parking then we'll have very thoughtful conversations about exemptions um is it just residents or do we want to have do we want to empower the city manager via ordinance to you know create events where we just

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don't even enforce I mean I'm sure the system can do whatever it is that we want it to do but if we don't want to write anybody any tickets for planting sea oats on a Saturday between 7 and 10, then we're just not going to go out and enforce our ordinance. You know, that's that's discretion on the part of the

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city manager and the and the department that would oversee this process. Uh but, you know, we could tailor our ordinance to however is best suits this community. It sounds like uh your platform can accommodate whatever it is that we'd like to do through that back office um

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capacity that you're talking about. And and so I I've been taking notes. I've seen council take notes and I'm not trying to stop any conversation, but be mindful of the fact of what we can regulate in ordinance and policy uh knowing that the platform uh can account for that if that's what we want the

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platform to do. >> You any further comments, Council Member King? >> No, that's it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Next card I have is Mr. Bill Dearden. And I'm sorry if that is

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Rearen. >> I got it. Thank you. >> Yeah. My name is is Bill Rearden R and I'm at 298 Chandler Street. U being very adept at public speaking. I've got

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my little cheat sheet which I uh sent to the city clerk this morning. Uh thank you. Well, for the opportunity. >> Yeah, here it is. >> Okay, here we go. Dear council members, I am opposed to

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any restriction of public access to the beaches in our community as well as the imposition of parking fees at those accesses. I believe this goes against the historical traditions of Cape Canaveral and will diminish the charm

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and attraction that this community has to offer both residents and tourists alike. There is an article posted on www.surfrider.org titled The Hidden Cost of a Beach Day: How Parking Restrictions Threaten Public

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Access. With special thanks to my Cape neighbors, Annie and Charlie Gracetti, for sharing this with me. This article clearly illustrates my sentiments and experiences living and working in tourist attractive towns on

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both coasts. And it does so more eloquently, factually, and in only a few minutes more reading time than I could express today in my allotted three minutes. I sincerely beseech all city council members and decision makers on

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this topic to read this article thereby yeah thereby benefiting from the experiences of communities where these policies have been enacted to fee or not to fee that is the question and it is a very complicated

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one for countless re reasons I yield the remainder of my time in the hope that city council members will apply that time and a few minutes more to read the article and better understand what it is at stake for the community and city of

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Cape Canaveral. Thanks for your time and consideration in this matter. >> Thank you, Mr. Rearen. >> This was emailed to clarify. >> Yes. >> To us. Yes, I believe we got that. and our city clerk's office has uh provided

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a printed copy for us which we've had the opportunity uh to look at. So, thank you very much. >> Brought one extra. >> So, >> did everyone get a copy? >> Okay, I think we're we're good here. Appreciate it. So the only additional

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comment I have after listening to the presentation and everything is that um the simple joy of going to the beach involves finding the parking place, getting out of your car, going to the beach. When you pull up and you see a

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parking meter or something that holds that process back, it's not, oh joy, a parking meter. It's more like uh you know what. So um that's something that I think bears consideration in the

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attraction that Cape Canaveral has for both the tourists and residents alike. And uh I think that the all of the spreadsheets and and uh powerpoints and whatever else do nothing to really

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streamline the process of the joy of going to the beach, which was one of the main attractions of being here. And uh I think it does exactly the opposite. And I think that the the the general feedback that I've heard and I would

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venture to guess that anybody in this room going to the beach does not get excited about the parking structure. Thank you, Mr. Rearen. You're welcome. Thank you.

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Next card I have is Shannon Roberts or Dr. Roberts. Shannon Roberts, 703 Sonner Shores Drive here in Cape Canaveral. And I think one thing that would be helpful to the residents is to have a scope of the project envisioned because to date right

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now, I still don't know what parking spaces we're talking about that would be required to be permitted. I'm just a little confused about the scope of the endeavor from the city city's perspective. that would I think would be a good overview for us uh to understand more clearly what's anticipated also the

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intangible cost which is Mr. Rean just spoke to um the history, the culture, the welcome to our city environment that we have that I think is so unique and so special to our precious historical city. Um

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one of the things that is also a questionable area are the resident guests. I think some brought that up. A lot of our residents um will have guests that come in. They may come in from Orlando or other parts of the country, wherever, but it's not real clear. Also,

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rental cars. A lot of people will use rental cars, you know, when they come in um for one reason or another, including our our part-time and full-time residents. Um the culture of stickers. I know that I can speak to eight of our condos in this community that do not

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have stickers, and that's intentional because they don't want the burden of managing that process. I mean, it's really very cumbersome to do that and finding out who's a resident, who's not, who's a guest, and who's family and so forth. It's a nightmare. It really is.

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Um, there are other revenue sources. If the purpose of this is revenue, which I'm not sure that also would be clear, I think to the residents takes place. What is the purpose of this? Is it revenue? Is it to to help, you know, enforce the quality of life for those that are on

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presidential streets? I don't know. And I think that's something else that I think should be clear to the residents. And how much is a ticket? Now, I've never asked this question that a sheriff will administer if there's a parking ticket or whatever. Do we even enforce that now? I'm not sure that we do. You

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know, hearing some of the people talk about parking, you know, in their driveways or whatever. Those are real issues during the launch environment. And do we have a parking ticket approach by the sheriff's precinct? I'm not sure that we do. If we do, how much are those

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tickets and do they generate revenue for our city? Um, to me, this is managing by exception. And to me, the intangible costs are incredible when you look at the administrative nightmare in my opinion of this whole approach. There

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was a reason the residents rebelled against this several years ago as was mentioned by our city manager. There was a reason why this was rejected at that time. And I really sense from looking at social media and talking to my neighbors, this is wholeheartedly rejected now by our residents. And I'm

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truly not sure why we're why we're pursuing this at this point. And if it's revenue, I would recommend that we look at the revenue sources that have been generated and suggested in many times from the before the council in other sessions. Thank you. >> Thank you, Dr. Roberts.

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Brad Pll Mr. And then next after Mr. PL is Mr. Gary Rickle and last is >> officers >> Mary Loose stand is the last >> Brad PL 777

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Magnolia Avenue Cape Canaveral better known as the blighted area first to the city council and city manager. Have we looked at section 544 of the municipal code? Uh, how does this fit into that code about commercial

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solicitation as we're giving up our parking spaces to a commercial entity for profit? I'll be a little disjointed because I have some notes here. That's question one. Or is T2 going to be considered a franchise? And where are

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those bids? Um, my big question is what is the split on every dollar? How much does Cape Canaveral get and how much does T2 get? Because I don't want our city to get into a situation like the electrical vehicle thing that in 28

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months we generated $12,000, but it cost us $15,000. I look at his numbers that he put up there. He does he does $2 billion a year with 9,000 customers. That averages out

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to only $223,000. not the $400,000 that's up there. Plus, he put another 10% as upfront fees of that $4,000. I appreciate the city council putting this in a public workshop, but to save

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everyone time, this probably should go on the ballot when people are voting and can and it'll be quick and easy to hear from the city how your constituents feel about public parking. Where does the money go to if we're

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going to generate plus or minus $300,000? What is that split? Will Park and Rhett get at least 50% of that? Because this is recreational spending. Uh, excuse me for being Oh, who funds

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the enforcement? If the city funds the enforcement and based on $15 an hour, you're looking at $65,000 a year out of that 300,000 potential. Um, I don't know if that makes sense.

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Um, in addition, Cape Canal has a very high concentration of senior citizens. They may not all have smartphones. Uh, it may be inconvenient. Um, and really that's all I got. And

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basically, let's keep Cape Cape Canaveral like uh Vermont. Live free or die. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Revel. I um I do think that's New Hampshire,

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though. Excellent. >> Thank you. >> Mr. Gary Rickle, Miss Mary Lou, I think you're next. Thank you. >> I'm Gary Riel. I live at 8472

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Rididgewood Avenue. >> Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor. Council members, thank you for the opportunity to speak. I've been trying to determine what kind of problem this proposal is trying to resolve.

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Best I could determine, the problem is that the fine citizens of Cape Canaveral are allowing people to park in a few free parking spots at the end of the streets that terminate at the beach. Then these people, their families and

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friends are allowed to enjoy time at the beach and go home thinking how wonderful it was to have such a fun experience. The solution to this problem is to attempt to make this a diff different diffult experience for them.

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We want to spend money to force them to use an app to pay for the experience and of course find them to make more money if they do not follow all the rules we want them to follow. We know that our neighbor to the south

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is making a lot of money with this and we want to do the same. Of course, they have a lot more parking spots, but we can show that we can make a few bucks if we do the same. Of course, we won't charge our citizens

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because they would be very upset if we did. Maybe we can do that later. This is a freedom that many have enjoyed for years. Many years ago, someone told me a story that I have never forgotten.

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They said freedom was like a roll of meat that they slice for you at the deli. Nobody will miss one small slice. But if you continue taking small slices, your freedom will disappear.

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This is one of those small slices. More government, less freedom to solve a problem that doesn't exist. In closing, I will share a comment that someone made about this proposal.

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They said the juice is not worth the squeeze. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Eckle. Okay, the last card I have is Miss Mary Lou. Stand. If anyone else intended to speak, I

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that's all I have. We do ask you Come forward when you're ready. Thank you. >> Hi, I'm Mary Lant. I live in Oceanwoods. Um, did do we only have one vendor with a proposal? I guess we can answer my questions

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later, but that is a question, only one vendor. And um, do we know who Cocoa Beach uses and um, what the pros and cons they were faced with? In other words, I'd be interested without any

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history because I'm new. Um, how does this vendor address the cons that have kept paid parking from coming to Cape Canaveral? That would be my question. And then I agree with you. I forget your name,

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but the scope would be better because don't we have um a park that has a huge parking lot with free parking for people to have access to the beach with a lifeguard and everything? And then if we're only talking about a few um paid

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spaces um you know again the scope of the project would be helpful to understand um whether or not it would be useful but or helpful because and and the purpose like to me I just assume it's revenue for the city and I think

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it's a good idea. Sorry. Um I you know any way we can generate revenue and uh I I'm in favor of and um secondly um the

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well oh yeah this was sort of with um in line with Commissioner Jackson's question. What I thought she meant was you know the $4,400 startup fees or what or or subscription

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fee. um you need a person to drive a vehicle around with a little device. You have to pay them. And um you also just can't say to finance or anybody, here's a whole bunch a whole new job for you.

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Um go ahead and just add it to your um you know, regular um job duties. I there's other startup costs that I perceive in implementing a revenue generating kind of program and and that

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would take away from the estimated cost or the benefits of the program ultimately based on the uh current estimates. But anyway, those were just my questions. You know, who does Cocoa Beach use? Man, they created parking spots that they didn't even have before.

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They marked them off and now you have to pay and and everybody just pays. You have to pay to go to a restaurant now. Um I don't pay. I walk two or three extra blocks and resent the fact that, you know, they don't extend to the locals the privilege, but we we sound

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like we're going to accommodate the people that live here. Um I'm done. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So, that uh completes the card to city manager.

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>> Yes, Mayor. I think um Sebastian can address some of the issues that were brought up. I did take some notes specifically about dollars. Um I don't think that was made clear what the city's paying for for your services, how much that is, and then obviously what

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what the city gets in return. >> Yes, thank you for the question. Uh so a lot of our competitors do have a revenue split model where let's say you charge $2 for parking that vendor gets a dollar and the city gets a dollar. We don't do

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that. That's why there's a annual subscription and it's like a software subscription just like if you have any apps that you pay for you pay a subscription. So we don't do a revenue split. Most of our competitors uh do. So

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that's one answer. >> Well, yes. So, uh, the proposal that you made to the city of Cape Canaveral over the span of three years, the city can expect to spend how much? >> I think the total for the three years was 19 uh,000. So, the the it's like a

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little over 10. The first year, the handheld all-in-one device with the scanner and the printer, that's like 2,800 uh dollars. But, which by the way, if it doesn't work, we overnight you one. that's part of the agreement. Um,

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so that's like $3,000. Obviously, the first year also has the subscriptions, which is the the 4,400. And then the rest of it is just an implementation cost that we work with the city to get your logo, embed everything into the

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city's website as a service for the city. um the the training that uh whoever's using the system will will want to have. Um and that's it. Now, you've probably all gone somewhere else and paid for parking where you saw it

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was like whatever $2 an hour and then the 29 convenience fee. So, those we also do those processing fees through our credit card processor. Um that's paid obviously by the the parker.

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So it would be $2 plus the 39 cent fee. Uh we get that fee most of it goes it's what we get charged by credit cards. So Sebastian just to clarify over the span of three years a city during this initial contract and expect to pay under

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$20,000 spread out over three years and the revenue generated from the parking citations goes where? >> No, not 120,000. No, no, under 20,000. >> Oh, yeah. >> Sorry, maybe I spoke too quickly. So, under >> Wow, my commission just uh went up six

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times. That's wonderful. That's correct. >> And the revenue goes where? For the citations. >> It goes to you. >> It goes to the city of Cape Canaveral. Okay. And u So the next question I heard asked was stickers. Does this system involve uh the the issuance or

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application of stickers on any motor vehicle at any time? >> No, there's no stickers. It's the uh license plan. By the way, also part of the like you Yeah, you probably have a lot of family and friends that want to come visit you cuz Cape Canaveral is beautiful. You could have like the resident permit for your one or two or

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however many vehicles that maybe it's a year permit, but you could have other let's say one week resident guest permit stuff stuff like that. >> Um so thank you. And back on the revenue question, where it goes to the city of Cape Canaveral specifically is in the city's general fund, which is used to

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offset the expenses of running the city to repair infrastructure that's damaged due to the high tourist traffic that this community uh creates on our roadways and to maintain beaches or crossovers or whatever it is that the general fund dollars are used to offset the cost for the high impact of being a

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tour city. So that's where the the money will go. Thank you, Sebastian. I just wanted you to clarify for everyone. >> Uh, absolutely. Thank you. >> That's great, council. At this time, I think we should uh take a quick break.

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Maybe five, no more than 10 minutes. Uh, allow us to process and then I think we can get right into it. So, we are at uh 218 now. Let's try to get back by 2:25 say no later than 2:30 and we'll be able to uh

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to keep moving forward. So with that let's recess All right. >> All right, everyone. We're going to get started here in 10 seconds. Uh, and we'll call the meeting back to order.

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Uh, so with that, if we're ready, call the meeting back to order. It is 2:39 p.m. We are just took a recess here in our workshop. Uh on item 5.1, the Beach End

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paid parking program. Uh since that over the recess, I did receive a comment card. Maybe I overlooked it or not. Are there any other comment cards at this time? I'm going to ask the council if we can hear this one card. And just want to

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make sure we take it all up at once. Council, I got one extra card. We closed public participation, but I think we'll good open it back up. Mr. Joe Downing. >> Please the council. My name is Joe Downing. I'm the chief

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grounds officer and vice president of finance at 301 Filillmore Avenue where I've lived for 24 years this month. >> I just have one question to put to the council and to the city manager. Uh it seems that we're we're considering

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raising revenue in anticipation of Tallahassy's decision to put on the ballot that maybe we should reduce or eliminate our property taxes in Florida. My question is, wouldn't it be prudent to wait until

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after the citizens of Florida have spoken in November before we decide whether we should raise more revenue via parking or not. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Downing. 301 film.

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Okay, seeing no other uh comment cards up here and no one else coming up, we'll go ahead and close public participation. Brought it back to the council. Our city manager asked a few follow-up clarifying

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questions in the comments. First, I just want to say thank you all uh who who again has taken the time out. uh how we're doing business here as our city manager is. We are in a workshop. There's no votes that's going to be taking place and the council's only

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going to benefit from having as much public input as possible. And today we heard some excellent comments and points. I saw everyone up here taking notes and listening closely. Um so with that, I've I think we all have questions

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questions that were asked from the the community as well. and Sebastian, our vendor, is still here. Okay. I think what's really important because this this came up a few times throughout is it's

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whether it be scope or why. Um, and I'm sorry I wasn't making sure you were still here. I don't have a question. I think this might be for uh just the the city manager and the council is let's talk about and we don't have to go into

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great detail. Um it's in followup to Mr. Downing's statement why are we doing this? What problem are we trying to solve? I think that's important for the community to to be on the same page and understand because the

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the goal and clearly defining what problem we're trying to solve, what we're try or why we're doing this, you know, that will determine the path we take and and how we we approach this. So, city manager, if you want to maybe

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give a just a brief overview for this council to to reaffirm and and understand uh with the community really why we're doing this. >> Absolutely. Thank you, mayor. Um, so cities are not in the business of making

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money. We're we're not for-profit. We're government, but we do have operating costs and those costs are paid for uh in a variety of different forms. You know, first and foremost, as everyone is aware, is the advalum taxes. Uh we have

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enterprise uh accounts that generate fees through things like storm water, sewer, if you provide water service or what have you. And those uh departments tend to operate themselves based on the fees that are generated for those services specifically. Uh and then cities have the ability to levy some

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other taxes, but it's very limited. Cities are very limited in how they can tax. Uh we have a gas tax we can implement with all our gas stations. So if we up them a couple of pennies, who's going to buy gas in the city of Cape Canaveral? You know, the there there there's there's cause and effect and and

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pros and cons. So um we have a lot of hotels in the city. Everybody knows that. and and if you know we have very limited ability to gain any revenue from those hels based on the way that state law is written unless we engage our

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state legislature uh to help with laws that we can generate more revenue. It wouldn't be just as it applies to city cave Canaveral be all municipalities in the state of Florida. We're also next to a port and in 9 million passenger movements a year. Uh we understand that uh there's potentially well there's

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always concern about how can we get more money from the port. Well again we would need legislative assistance in that regard and I can tell you that the city of Cape Canaveral is reviewing those options having conversations with state and federal um elected officials on what those things would look like and those

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those conversations are not going to you know happen overnight and produce immediate results. So, it falls back on then how can this municipality generate revenue to support its um services and its infrastructure and so forth. And and I and I pause for a second because it's

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it's almost like generating revenue is a bad thing. I mean, we're not for-profit and we understand that. But it's what's interesting to note is the number of people who do come to the city of Cape Canaveral to recreate. We are a touristbased community. 1if of our residents roughly are homesteaders and

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the rest are not. Uh the vast majority of the people who access our beaches, 97% according to statistics we've gathered, don't live in the city of Cape Canaveral and they are driving on our roadways. They that the the the vehicles are, you know, on our infrastructure and

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there are studies that show that our you know enhanced traffic on roadways can adversely impact those roadways. And so the city is looking at ways to generate revenue so that ultimately it does not have to, you know, increase the burden

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on the taxpayers. At some point in time, the community is going to come to this council and say, "We want you to repair our beach crossovers." That was mentioned earlier. Well, the next time we repair a beach crossover, we're going to have to elevate it to FD standards. We can't just replace repair it. We're going to have to replace it. And that's

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going to cost money. And and so money doesn't grow in trees. And we want to reduce the burden on our taxpayers by generating revenue in a lawful manner that we're allowed to by law. And paid parking is all over uh Bvard County. We are the only community that does not

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charge people to park. Cherryown Park is in our city, but it's not our jurisdiction. It's owned by the county. There will be no paid parking applied there be from this city. uh and so this is just uh the your government doing its due diligence to explore all options

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available to it to generate revenue not at the expense of its residents and we understand the the theories and the ideology of you know the going to the beach and so forth. We we're not insensitive to that, but we have to look out for the big picture. The cost of

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providing services to this community are going to continue to go up. And as far as the reference earlier, to Mr. Downey, uh to the um ad valerum tax measure before the state and and voters in November, you that's not something we're not doing this in response to that. Uh

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we've been talking about paid parking since I got here and long before we heard of any initiative to go after um you know homestead exemptions, but we know for a fact that the House and the legisl uh and the Senate approved it. It's going to be on the ballot for uh

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residents to vote on and we may end up being a situation where roughly 15th of our adalarum taxes will will be gone. And then what do we do? we we can increase taxes on those who

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still pay commercial, industrial, but what does that look like in the long run? You know, so these are conversations we want to have with our community. This council is faced with many big decisions. They've been having these conversations. We've been having them in our one-on-one meetings and they're very concerned and they're very

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concerned about how the residents are going to view this. That's why we're having a five-step process to be completely and totally transparent with this community. So, so you can weigh in and and have your voices heard. No one wants to change the face of the city of Cape Canaveral, but everybody's coming here. And I'll I'll close with this. Uh,

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we were entertaining a software from a company that would charge us an annual fee. Uh, everyone's IP address on their cell phones. We're tracked everywhere we go, folks. And you can, for a service, you can pay the fee and you can find out, you know, exactly who's in your community and where they're from. And we

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got a snapshot of what that would look like a few months ago by just drawing a rectangle on Ridgewood Avenue at our beaches. And the numbers were staggering. The people who come to the city of Cape Canaveral from all over the country and they're they are on our beaches. They are on our roadways and

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they are parking in our free spaces denying residents the ability to park when they're here. And and we're not insensitive to that. But we just think the city of Cape Canaveral should be able to support its residents in a manner that's reasonable and prudent and lawful by implementing a paid parking

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system and this council has the courage to address this matter and we appreciate everybody coming here to speak out and speak your mind because your voice does matter. Did I hit the points, mayor, that you were looking for? Yeah. And I would just ask the the council, I mean ultimately um

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to sum up that u generating revenue I is the the goal and and the burden and the way we we uh obtain revenue through property taxes. that burden that we pay for these

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services comes out of property taxes. And um overall, if you look at the history of Cape Canaveral, uh we over the past and this is many cities have seen a large increase and

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we've worked hard in the city to to keep our taxes low, but expenses has ri risen significantly. Um and I can say on the other side of this is uh we are looking at ways to reduce expenses as well and

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taking a very hard look at that but we have a a tough decision to make uh and I think we're going to continue to make them. Uh so council is that are there any comments from the council on why uh we are we are doing this and any statements

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to follow up from our city manager? Yes. >> When you have a moment after Mayor Pro Tim. Thank you. >> Yes, Mayor Pro Tim. >> Okay. In 2012, Airbnb and VBO lobbyed the state of Florida to allow short-term

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rentals into every residential community in the state of Florida. Back in that day, I was not on council. I was not in government. And I screamed my head off. I literally deal with short-term rentals as a lot of you know right now. However,

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allowing those into residential communities changed the face of many communities within our state. Now, we have a R1 residential home that is a single family home and then the home next door is a short-term vacation

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rental. Those changes change the fabric of communities throughout the state. Okay. So, um, now we have around, as our city manager was saying, around 1/5if of our

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city are full-time residents. Um, I've seen people that have had concerns over Cape View closing and talking about this in relation to that. Well, if all of your your residences are short-term rentals, there aren't going to be kids

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to go to those schools. And when enrollment drops, we don't have the control over those schools. So there's been a lot of changes that our community has gone through. I personally moved here and bought here because of the type

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of community we were. We were small residential city by the sea and we're that's literally in our city charter. I personally loved that and I still do. Now we are a city by the sea,

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residential city by the sea with a lot of visitors. Since the the pandemic, we have had many people invest in our area that are second homeowners and we welcome them to our community just like we do anyone that moves here. But we

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don't have the number of full-time residents that we've have had in the past. And the full-time residents that live here 20 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 12 months a year, are the ones that will vote on what they want if we

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did a vote on this. Um we we see that now with the debate about property taxes as well on social media and that type of thing. So when we look at the low number of residences in those spaces, we do

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know that we've had an influx of people into our county and that influx of people have have flocked to our area with the space race um and have vested in our area, invested in our area,

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buying property and coming here. Some are full-time and some are part-time uh people. But regardless, our area has exploded. And when you look at that and the changes that are occurring based on the sheer explosion with the space race

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and what has happened since the pandemic, we've had a change in the way that our county is looks as well as our city. Um, as our city manager said, we have the port. The port's charter doesn't allow for us

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to get money. Um, we have the bed tax for short-term rentals that goes to the county. Meanwhile, the county's exploding, bursting at the seams compared to what we used to be. So, it's a challenge that we all face. Um, we

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have to look at how we want to handle and manage that as a city. and your feedback is key to us. Um, and just so you know, there's we have gotten other um, emails in regards to this that are in support of it. Um, but as we look at

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this, you know, it we have to question ourselves, do are we the are we the city that says, "Nope, we don't ever want to do that. We know we have a small population of our own that are going to that beach and

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we're good if even if our taxes go up with us maintaining that free parking because when you come to expenses and revenues, you've got to have yourself covered. So, it's it can be an easy choice and everyone gets to look at

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those choices and give us their feedback. and I'm interested in listening to what our residents want and then moving from that spot. But we've had changes in this city. It's been it's been a lot of change. And as we have

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seen with these numbers, a lot of those people are not from here. So, how do we want to handle that? And how do we do the traffic management? I've seen people on the beach bury covering up a hole so that someone doesn't fall and break

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their leg. I've seen ones that that have said, "Can you fill your hole up?" And they've said, "I don't care." And they walk off. I've seen ones that are picking up trash every day and making our community a better place. And I've

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seen ones that have said, "Can you pick up your trash?" And they, "I don't care." And they leave. So, it just depends on what do we see as a community. What do we want as a community, but we definitely have had changes. A lot of those changes came about way back when with the Airbnb

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lobbying the state because that changed what neighborhoods look like. And so to me, we have, you know, 21% of our property owners, one is what our city manager had said, own here and live

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here. And regardless of what options we choose and what direction we go, we have to live with the financial consequences of that. So if people are good with, you know, we have to charge more in taxes to cover this so that people can come to

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the beach for free that are not necessarily our residents, then that's good, too. But we have to look as a city council as being fiscally responsible for the residents within our city. And that's why even exploring this becomes

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an option that we should all look at. >> Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim. Council member King, >> thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you, Mayor Prom. Very well put. Um, when I moved to this area in 1982, it was a scrubby little

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beach town. Many of you probably were here at that time and you remember and we've watched it evolve rather rapidly since co uh into a resort town. That's what we are now. Um I argued with a friend of mine, a neighbor who said,

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"Face it, Andrea. It's a resort town now. It's not what it was and you're going to have to deal with that." That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to deal with it without imposing a burden, maybe a heavy burden on the the people who are here full-time, the taxpaying

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citizens here. I attended a a conference this past week. Uh there were 41 of us from all over the state, mayors, vice mayors, some newly elected or appointed uh members of council. And just about

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all of them, we didn't talk, this was not a topic for discussion at this conference. We had other things that we were dealing with. But amongst all of us, there is a real deep concern about this ballot initiative because some of

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these smaller towns who don't have maybe less than 1/5if of the people that we have, they're going they're not going they're going to go under because they're not going to be able to provide the essential services that they that their taxpaying neighbors expect. So

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there's deep concern about this and we're going to get into this later on in in in more more discussion at another time, but I would urge you to do your research on this ballot initiative. It is not what it seems. Okay? It just

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sounds wonderful, but do your research on it because it's going to impact all of us. And coming from my perspective, the state government, the governor is assuring us that if if a community doesn't have enough to survive on, the

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state is going to make sure that they are taken care of. Personally, I think less government is better. Local government, we want to be able to control our future and not leave it to the legislature in Tallahassee to do it.

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And that's all I want to say on that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, council. Uh, anything on the on the topic as far as, you know, why we're doing I think all the points have been hit. >> Yes,

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we've lost uh the biggest reason we're doing this. The city has no reserves left anymore. I mean, we have and that's we're trying to raise our reserves up to our required levels and we're coming through a really tough budget season. So, it's either we've tasked the city manager would find an extra revenue and

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he's done a great job doing that for us. So, we can have paid parking for people that don't live here or we can have a large tax increase. That's what's boiling it down to. It's going to be a very difficult budget season because we we also have to we required to have some reserves and right now we don't have a single penny in reserves for

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contingencies. >> Thank you, Council Member Willis. Well, I think u most everybody has u at length talked about the financial burdens and what we're needing to do and this is uh going to be a tough choice. I mean we

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it's not an easy decision. It's not uh something anyone on the day takes lightly. Um but we do have some tough choices to make. A lot of times the public only sees the choice that we did make and might criticize it. But uh you

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have to understand there's a lot that goes behind it. You don't always see the choices we're given just the this the decisions that we've made. So just please try to bear that in mind. We're trying to do the best because all of us

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up here pay taxes too. We live here. We go to the beach. We're we're doing everything that you do. And it's not that simple to just say that we don't care or follow the money or whatever it is people on social media will say

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because we're we're just your neighbors as well. So just please bear that in mind. Thank you. >> May I say one other thing, Mr. Mayor? Thank you. The bringing up social media. Thank you, Councilman Willis. Social media is not the best place to find the

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facts. Okay. If you're if you're relying on what people are offering, opining on social media, keep in mind that a lot of it is without facts, without the the backstory. And that's why I am so

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delighted to see all of you here today. I I really am. I wish we had all of you here and more for our council meetings so you can see how we deliberate, how we angst over some of these decisions that we have to make because again it affects

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all of us. So thank you for that Councilman Willis and I'll leave it at that. >> Yeah. And just on social media the the public opinion is largely against this. I mean 80% was my rough numbers and I went on the media sources, the city's

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posts and I'm so proud of our city because you know there's councils and commissions that move very quietly on big decisions like this and we this is why we wanted to put it out there so that we can talk and discuss these things. uh the path that

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we're heading down to the point 3 is is not sustainable and the decisions that were made prior um on large capital expansions in the city whether it be the C5 the level of

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architecture and design of this very building is we're talking 2016 2017 just prior to that say 2015 15 uh the city started taking on debt and expanding and

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many of you who are here today were raising concerns many who were residents or on this dis were raising concerns about the overhead. Um and at that time we didn't have the council we have

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today. Uh we are uh responding largely to a lot of those expenditures um that we warned about and that council is no longer with us at the time. I I was the only one but a majority is

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three. Um it was bad math really bad or just math that was ignored on the overhead expenses um for for these facilities. And so in addition to considering paid parking, we're also looking at how we can make

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decisions on all property assets to be sustainable. That while it might be impossible to have every single property as a standalone revenue positive, we are we are putting forward any ideas to say

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can we monetize this? And this council, I believe, is the only council I could say very confidently that two years in a row we legitimately decreased taxes. Uh, and a lot of people are uh, elected

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officials say, "We lowered your taxes." Yeah, they lowered the rate, but our property values went up and they didn't lower it below the roll back rate. This council did that and we are now take uh I I do not want to uh I want to continue

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to decrease taxes. I think Cape Canaveral as our city manager said because we're so uh tourist heavy. I can't speak for all cities and what comes out on the ballot, but we are in a position due to the heavy tourism and 1/5if being the the the homesteaders to

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where we can leverage the traffic that comes into our city and it only uh gets me uh motivated to know that but can we turn around and continue to truly

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decrease taxes? Can residents live live here as the lowest tax rate? Um and depending on how aggressive we get, I mean we can and if the state gets involved largely decrease taxes um much lower and we bear the cost. Cape

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Canaveral. Uh the hotels are happening here and a lot of it is in response to Port Canaveral and the port's decisions to continue to drive their metric which is tourism and boy they've been successful

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busiest cruise port uh in the world. And while we uh watch that, that's on our backs and that the traffic and the impacts on our beaches, we are looking at how can we survive without increasing taxes. And I would say how can we

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survive and decrease taxes and if that ballot initiative referendum uh or goes out uh we'll be forced to to make that decision. And so today, I think we've got the right council to say if you had

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to pick one, and I'm speaking for myself, uh I don't I know we always say no one likes taxes. Uh I'm taking it a step further. I think property taxes are flatout unethical and immoral. I've always felt that way that

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why just because the property value increases uh should should we continue to have to pay more in taxes? So, I agree a lot with what the governor says there and the legislature made its decision, but I want our residents to have minimal and

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yes, I dream of a day that could we completely eliminate it. And I can tell you if the port, whether it be limitations in the charter, if we were able to capture some revenue from the cruise passenger traffic, 7 million

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passengers at a dollar a passenger would be $7 million. that would completely eliminate our property tax because that's roughly what we bring in taxes. But we are working as this council said on all sides, not just revenue, but

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we've done it. We've our city manager has worked hard. We've we've decreased costs. And I can tell you when I'm looking at revenue, it's not additional revenue. It's to reduce the burden on our taxpayers. Because if we're going to be 1/5if of the homesteaders and bear

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the busiest cruise ship in the world and see hotels continue to to come up in our community and and deal with Airbnb and short-term rental businesses operating in residential communities, uh we we have got I think to to really look

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at how we can if it's going to be that way and as our mayor pro Tim said the tourist development the bad tax we do not get that goes straight to the county to go into marketing and more billboards to drive more traffic here. But it's all

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happening in our city and the the so the all of the above. It's not just parking. It is uh potentially uh working with the port. Um it it's we've advocated and we've discussed tourist development uh

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taxes and I think it's all the above. This is one and the big difference from the decision we're considering today and in the past is the biggest argument on a lot of the capital expansions whether it was the C5 community center and many

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other investments was um the workshops were not happening. Some of them came long after the fact. But we are well I can speak for myself. I'm not going to move faster than our community is ready. Um, I I would be willing to make a

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decision maybe that the opinions of many do not agree, but I think that if we looked at the options between property taxes and fee for service, I think the fee for service is better only if we could genuinely decrease taxes, not keep

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taxes or increase taxes and then add a new revenue. And so that's where my heart is and I know that many of the council members up there feel the same way. the vendor that we have who took the time to present where we are kind of step two. It was first in uh discussed

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publicly at the last meeting is here to talk about how we can best serve the community with their programs and if everything's a consideration um and if this advances it'll be crystal clear if this is

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something the community does not want. Um, and so I think that as we get to first and second readings, uh, I think more and more people will will show up and we will make a decision together and ask all the questions. So with that, um,

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I've got some questions if if we don't that that's kind of a high level from all of us on why we're doing it. But, uh, if our vendor Sebastian, I got a few questions that, um, again, I can speak for myself on this. Can we talk about the privacy uh

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issues? That's a major concern for me. I'm not a fan of flock camera systems. Um I understand the intangible, the indirect benefits. I understand how it's legitimately saved lives and and helped, but um it's what happens when that data

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gets in the wrong hands. And the first question would be uh how long is the data who owns the data is the first question. Well, I'm I'm glad that's the first question because out of all the questions, that's the one I know about. You own the data.

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>> Okay. Um uh what we do is our systems comply by all the local, state, and federal laws regarding privacy and data protection. Uh and when those change, our system has to adapt to those. I can get very specific details about how all

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that works from an IT standpoint, but I would have to get that from my uh sales engineer because I don't want to misstate something. So there is no uh

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the data is not in your company's uh T2 T2 systems that there's no there's automatically deleted or >> no we does that data is it on a cloud that that we exclusively own or

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>> No we host the data but it's you're the owner in the standpoint that well there's two parts. One, if you find the different provider, right, we have to completely migrate that data which

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belongs to you and it gets deleted and you have in the contract details about how we delete it. But again, it's in compliance with state uh local and federal laws. Um, but while we're hosting it, it's in, you know, we're

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hosting the cloud, but you're the owner of the data. >> Okay. >> And as far as how long, um, you can we can hold it at the city's behead. Obviously, we have to hold it as long as it's required by law, but the city will

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decide if you have additional requirements and we need to hold it longer. And then we don't hold it any longer than that. So is there there's an um a standard section I would imagine in your contract that addresses this if I'm hearing you

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correctly. >> Correct. >> Is that something even if a boilerplate agreement if it exists today that we you could send to the council uh just so we understand yeah >> those terms because that's really what it comes down to. So, two things. A lot

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of our, and you know, I'll just bring this up. A lot of our city customers procure our systems through the Sourcewell uh contract that we own. That's a national nationally um solicited and negotiated cooperative agreement.

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>> Um, and I'll send a link to that, right? Because your procurement and your finance and legal can can see what that looks like, but then I'll also send you our boilerplate. We can also contract directly with our T2 uh contract and I'll send additional uh information

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regarding the data privacy and collections and storage. >> The name of that you what was it? >> Sourcewell >> and and what is source well? >> Uh it's one of there's cooperative contracts that are nationally bid. So

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you have to go out to RFP and then when they're awarded like T2 Systems uh was awarded the Sourcewell contract for parking uh products and services and related. Okay. >> Um and that's kind of an easy button for procurement departments because it's

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competitively bid um competitively negot uh I'm sorry negotiated for you know blanket terms and then it's easy for any procurement department at zero fee. Sourcewell doesn't charge cities to you to to use it. Uh I'm and it's also

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there's Omnia contracts. There's many out there. There's state contracts um that are competitively bid and then and then any agency can piggyback on top of them. But the two main ways that our customers choose is either the source well because it's got a lot of the your

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concerns that are already in there or our direct contract. And I'll send you both both uh templates. And then of course our when it comes to our direct uh contract uh all the customers that we have redlinined and added sections and

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negotiated all that stuff which we will gladly do. >> That's excellent. So yeah, the piggyback I'm familiar with that. I'm sure we could probably find one of those online. And as far as um

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so we are the only owner under those terms of that data there's no the source well or T2 would have no access to that data if >> yeah source well is just a procurement contracting vehicle they don't touch it

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in any way form or another we we host the data is fully encrypted and tokenized and protected by local state and federal laws But you do own it like um you know again if you fire us and hire someone else it it goes all back to

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you and completely deleted from our cloud solutions. We host on Microsoft Azure cloud. >> Okay. As far as maybe this is a city manager question or city attorney question. If a resident or anyone for that matter under

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public records law was to do a records request of of the data that the city owns, would we be obligated um to turn over or would there be an exemption uh on all license tags that were scanned

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for the past week in in in Cape Canaveral under this system? Is that something you can speak to, city attorney on That's something mayor I would have to research. I mean there are obviously there are some protect pro protected

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information. I mean to to the extent it is protected. Um you know it would not be accessible for public records such as um like driver's records information might be um might be exempt from public records disclosure. But, you know, I'd have to look at the data that's actually

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captured to really analyze and give you any, you know, certainty on at least my opinion on whether or not there are exemptions applicable. >> The license tag is captured then the number. >> Can we just use that as an example? Do

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you happen to know if someone requested the spreadsheet? I think it comes in an XLS. Yeah, you can export it >> is >> and it was just license tags with just say date and time. If you're not ready to answer today,

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that would be of interest in this example of what could >> uh if in the wrong hands, right? >> Just think about privacy. This is a concern. Uh >> so mayor >> you have a right to know I mean where

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somebody was on some day at some point and that doesn't make me feel well you know to know that because that can be manipulated and used and so if it's exempt um this is for reasons not even related to

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parking. I think you know America we have privacy and um I think some of these things are getting out of hand but yes city manager >> so what is public record is if a citation is issued will maintain a pro a paper record of that and it would be processed like any other say if it was a

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law enforcement agency you have uniform traffic citation uh those are all discoverable they go to court they they go to the clerk of the court in that case so any parking ticket that's issued we would have a paper copy I think it's an important uh issue to address a how long or the lifespan of the information

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is in the database. Uh, you know, license plate readers, for example, typically have a 90-day lifespan and then they're purged from the system. >> Uh, and then our own departmental policies and ordinance would even regulate how we access it, why we access it. Plus, there's already laws in place

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that state what you can access it for and why. Um, so we have all the ability to control that as we want to based on on how we want to proceed. >> Do you Thank you for that. Do you have I mean are toll booths. Yes. Are those public records? Basically you could see

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every license plate >> absolutely occurred on a public roadway. It was scanned by a device. You you traveled on that roadway knowing that that was the c that's how those fines are paid. Um same thing if you if you pass by a school bus where um license

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plate readers are unactive. If the stop signs go out and you pass by them then it's a civil penalty that you pay. That happens here in Bvard County. So, >> okay. Well, I'm going to stop there. I think these are some of my biggest concerns. And the goal would be, you

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know, can we could we implement something that protects privacy for folks. I don't like the fact that you can obtain license plates on date. I don't like the school bus scanning every I understand the safety, don't get me

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wrong, but to me, it's it's too far. as I've said whether the just it I mean fourth amendment constitution I I feel very strongly about that and so like the flock camera systems I think this uh we got to be careful here and I

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know cities are going all in and you hear some wonderful stories but it's the balance of of what else can be uh used and um yeah I don't so those are some questions maybe we can work through or

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have a solution that would protect it, but it can be difficult. >> Mr. Mayor, >> yes. >> Just No, it's me. >> Oh, sure. >> Uh I think Keith can verify this, but the public record might be the license plate number, but it doesn't come along

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with uh personal information, names or addresses. Um, and I just want to say that I'll send to uh the city manager and his office not just the contracts for you to review what they look like that address privacy, but also you the

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uh IT documentation on how it's actually treated in in our system for your IT department to to look at and verify if it's good or not. It should be good because it has to comply with all laws. Yeah, it it will all privacy data that

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is part of state, local, and federal law is already protected and we'll give we'll let you know exactly what data could be requested in the uh public record, but I believe it's just the license plate number, day, and time. >> Thank you.

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>> If there are any reports that have that data, if you could give us example an example of those. Yes, absolutely. I can I can examples. >> Thank you. And Mr. Mayor, I have one more question. It's a legal question.

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So, if we did this um so um um to you, city attorney, if we decided to go this route and there there would obviously be an ordinance on the beach parking. Um, can we add within that ordinance that

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residents, whatever we decide for residents, if they're not paying or whatever, that that's in perpetuity and cannot be superseded by any other laws going forward unless I mean, what how would we handle that? And the reason I'm saying this is

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with there's been criticism in certain areas about implementing paid parking and the residents were told you won't have to pay and then lo and behold a year or two later they had to pay. So is there safeguards we can put into the

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ordinance where we don't have something overlay that supersede that? Well, just like any any ordinance, it always can be looked at, revised, supplemented by future city council. So, this city council can establish a certain rate

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schedule. Subsequent city councils can adjust those rate schedules. >> Anything could be undone. >> Yeah, no. >> You can't bind the hands of uh the council can't bind the hands of the future city council on those general

442
02:23:24.640 --> 02:23:40.240
ordinances. I want I want if I say free, I want it to be free. >> I understand your point, but >> the intent could be I mean it would not negate the the the intentions of that and it would you know it requires a vote

443
02:23:40.240 --> 02:23:55.520
sunsetting is another thing that for Yes. >> Council member Willis Sebastian can you possibly provide us with a data map for what you're collecting? I mean, the city is going to be requiring a

444
02:23:55.520 --> 02:24:12.319
registered license plate and proof of residency in some of some duration. What What does your application is going to have that data and is going to return? Yes, they're they are approved

445
02:24:12.319 --> 02:24:27.760
for parking free or whatever. Um, I'm interested in where you're going out to get other information and how much of that you bring back and store. >> Uh, thank you for the uh question,

446
02:24:27.760 --> 02:24:44.800
Councilman Willis. I will uh get the details on how that works. But I believe that like if you show them some proof of of residency that does not part have to once the system approves it I think it's uh purged or but I I have to find out to

447
02:24:44.800 --> 02:25:00.399
give you the correct answer. >> Well you also mentioned a a length of permit will you be say for instance myself I'm going to register my vehicles. Do I need to do that every year?

448
02:25:00.399 --> 02:25:18.720
that that's definitely part of the ordinance. >> Okay. So, we could >> Well, I guess there's going to be some purging that is eventually going to need to be made. >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. >> We again just the retention policy, but

449
02:25:18.720 --> 02:25:39.840
required by law. Any additional that you write into law through the ordinance and no more? No. Well, I'd be very interested in seeing the data map for what is external to your system. >> Yes, me too. It'll be a good learning. >> Okay. So, the the devices have license

450
02:25:39.840 --> 02:25:57.160
plate reading technology. That's >> correct. A scanner. >> And is that an in-house proprietary? Is it with a partnership with another company like Flock or >> No, it's in-house propri. It's it's our hardware. Okay.

451
02:26:00.399 --> 02:26:15.120
>> Oh, but just because it's public record, obviously the Samsung the actual smartphone is not ours. >> Sure. >> Okay. As and as far as the cost go, it says and the table provided it says

452
02:26:15.120 --> 02:26:31.040
expenses in year one is 10,162. I know these are estimates. Um, and then annual reoccurring is the 44,428. Would we add those together to get year one or does the 10,000 include that reoccurring?

453
02:26:31.040 --> 02:26:48.560
>> Yep. Great question. The 10,000 includes year one. >> Okay. And does uh year I see that revenue year two and three I guess I could back into the math but is there any

454
02:26:48.560 --> 02:27:04.160
escalation of the costs in in year two three four continuing? >> No. Most of our um municipal customers like that three-year contract and then, you know, they might want three-year with a one-year option or a two-year

455
02:27:04.160 --> 02:27:22.880
option, in which case that uh dollar amount is contracted for that term potentially at the end of the three-year or at the end of the three-year plus the two-year extension. Uh I imagine our rates probably will be uh adjusted.

456
02:27:22.880 --> 02:27:38.000
Um, you some municipalities ask for a 5-year contract with three years. I mean, whatever term you want to do, >> mayor. Yes, >> Sebastian. Uh, there's also the um the number of devices, right? If you want to

457
02:27:38.000 --> 02:27:55.840
explain how that affects cost and why ours is the way it is versus how it could be if we had more devices. >> Yeah. So, a device um is about $2,800. Uh, and the but the subscriptions

458
02:27:55.840 --> 02:28:11.600
um, uh, go up a little a little bit, but not $4,000 each each device. Uh, I forget the exact number. I'll have to send it in. But basically, if you have two device, no, actually two devices would then give

459
02:28:11.600 --> 02:28:27.520
you two back office light and it would still be $4,400. I'm sorry. It's just each device is like 2,800. $2,800, >> right? But initially when we got a proposal from you that was based on the number of devices and we reduced the number of devices which thereby reduced

460
02:28:27.520 --> 02:28:43.439
the annual co or the cost that we are now that you are now proposing. >> Yeah we we initially had uh three devices and I believe it was like $500. >> Yeah more span of three years it would have been over $50,000. We reduced it to

461
02:28:43.439 --> 02:28:59.680
just one device and that reduced the cost to just over three years. A little under 20,000. >> That's right. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> When we purchase the device, do we own the device or do we have to return that back to the company? >> You own the device.

462
02:28:59.680 --> 02:29:16.880
>> Okay. Hardware and then then the sub. >> Yeah. >> Are we able to It was recommended for three devices. Uh 206 spaces I think. Is one device sufficient? >> Yeah. When we did the the demo in the system with our sales engineer who's

463
02:29:16.880 --> 02:29:32.560
been with T2 since the beginning again I've been here 3 months. He was like no you don't need for 205 spaces you don't need three devices. He said one would be plenty. It's and it's easier to start with one and then if you decide it's not plenty you could add the second one.

464
02:29:32.560 --> 02:29:47.840
>> If the device is dropped or broken like devices do how is that handled? We do. We have a warranty which the first year is included um in that cost uh and I believe we included it in years

465
02:29:47.840 --> 02:30:12.640
two and three and you get replaced in 24 hours in addition with free shipping for the old device. We always try to repair the old device. >> Okay. So, three to five year contracts, we would

466
02:30:12.640 --> 02:30:29.280
negotiate the expenses. These are rough numbers. $10,000 year run one and then annual is about 4,400 year after. >> Yep. Correct. >> And that's how you got to that $19,000 number. It's for the whole three years.

467
02:30:29.280 --> 02:30:54.080
>> Yes, that's correct. The question uh council member Willis asked about the 70% average I see it twice. I think he was talking about average occupancy that is 70%. I think your answer made it sound like it was based 70% of over it was on time or the

468
02:30:54.080 --> 02:31:12.160
year. What is the 70%? It's 70% of what? Uh so if you have 10 available spaces, you know, it averages out to seven are used >> every day of the year on average.

469
02:31:12.160 --> 02:31:28.240
>> 70. So it is 70% of the total spaces. >> Yes. >> Per day, year. I mean it same over >> which would be 70% of the year. Whatever the math is. >> I was out cuz you've all seen it right. Right now I don't know right now, but when I got here there was only three

470
02:31:28.240 --> 02:31:44.720
cars. um at the end of the street and on Saturdays I'm sure it's completely full all day. >> So we have 205 spaces and you're saying I if I multiplied that uh by 70 that's what the the model here you ran ran it

471
02:31:44.720 --> 02:31:59.840
on. >> Yep, that's correct. >> It's 143 spaces is what that would >> come out to be. Yeah, you could do the math like that. And that's assuming an eight hour parking stint, right?

472
02:31:59.840 --> 02:32:14.720
>> I put enforce 16 hours a day. Okay. >> But that that enforcement period more plays into the the the violations for someone that doesn't pay, right? Because if if it's 24 hours, there's going to be people that pay 24 hours.

473
02:32:14.720 --> 02:32:43.760
>> Thank you. >> So you see the average hours per session, sessions per day. >> Mhm. Is there another community nearby that you've provided services for? T2, I keep saying you, excuse me, for the company

474
02:32:43.760 --> 02:32:59.840
T2 is providing. >> Uh, yeah, I can get you the full list of uh communities in all of Florida or up and down the uh east coast. Um Jack, that's been with its long. Well, New Smyrna, for example, but I think that's

475
02:32:59.840 --> 02:33:18.399
an hour and a half away. What's the close? >> Yeah. What's the closest one on your list? >> Well, just I don't know which one is uh closer, but Delray Beach, that's not close. Neptune Beach, Pompo Beach, Hollywood Beach, city of Boca Raton,

476
02:33:18.399 --> 02:33:33.840
city of Fort Lauderdale, New Smyrna, and all of Alia County. But these are the the uh our customers that use our our pay stations. Uh and some of them there we have other customers that just use up safety and they collect revenue some

477
02:33:33.840 --> 02:33:51.120
other way. So I'll get if none of those were close enough. I'll look for the closer ones. >> You sa would have been the closest or another village county. But I guess I would like to know who not just proximity to us is le less important than who would be receiving a similar

478
02:33:51.120 --> 02:34:07.040
service than what's proposed. >> Technology. >> Yeah. same technology um on what we're considering so that we can understand that and

479
02:34:07.040 --> 02:34:24.319
if there's another community that uh yeah I have to go into the the database because we have different solutions that are used. I don't want to give inaccurate information but we have plenty that use up safety for enforcement and mobile pay. I'll just

480
02:34:24.319 --> 02:34:39.200
have to tell you which the exact ones are. >> Okay, council. I'm just chime in at any point here. Um, and we do have another item. I think the big thing and I I'll

481
02:34:39.200 --> 02:34:56.000
so privacy. We talked about those concerns and the uh the numbers. This is a I think a highle estimate. The city council made a decision. Well, for we this was brought

482
02:34:56.000 --> 02:35:12.560
up in in the in the sentiment of the community of the first uh time the city pursued this very different approach. It was striping and metering and uh I think some some decisions were made administratively at that time prior to

483
02:35:12.560 --> 02:35:27.600
our city manager, prior to the council being able to make it. And basically we had we had a bunch of equipment that uh the council ultimately due to a change as well did not desire

484
02:35:27.600 --> 02:35:45.120
and so um that was that was a loss. It created a bad taste for good reasons. the residents and today uh but but the one takeaway was again the the math that was done at that time

485
02:35:45.120 --> 02:36:02.000
um and this is what we've seen was cost it was cost prohibitive you know that that those indirect unforeseen cost and looking at it and being more conservative with it I think if this council desires is we would want to take

486
02:36:02.000 --> 02:36:17.120
this and really make sure we've got a good handle on what this would cost the city of Cape Canaveral and are there any expenses in here that we're not considering for us I think between now

487
02:36:17.120 --> 02:36:33.280
and the next workshop to be I think a little bit more take this and and drill down closer and say you know is this a reasonable accurate model we could even do average worst worst case, best case,

488
02:36:33.280 --> 02:36:50.240
and make sure we're really factoring it because there is going to be time. The the largest cost for us that's not included in here is the time from an employee, right, in the city that's not factored. No, >> payroll. And I guess are there other

489
02:36:50.240 --> 02:37:06.080
costs that we're we need we should be thinking about in addition to payroll >> are are for the mobile pay the that pricing right there includes five signs but because you have I forget how many

490
02:37:06.080 --> 02:37:23.040
total beach parking nodes like this one at the end probably has like over 10 spaces right you might want two right cuz someone might not be able to see the code or their phone pick up the QR code so you get Each additional sign is $38 um if we get them for you, but you're

491
02:37:23.040 --> 02:37:39.280
also free to use, let's say, a local sign printer. We'll give you the the graphics um and the right QR code and you can print them locally because you'll have need the additional signs and then obviously a poll to uh maybe some concrete work to hold the sign in the ground. So, there'll be costs

492
02:37:39.280 --> 02:37:53.920
associated with that. >> That's an excellent point. Okay, so five free signs come with it. If we go through you' be $38 a sign. It sounds like you're recommending a sign per 10 spaces, two for 20. And our city manager, I think, would know a little

493
02:37:53.920 --> 02:38:10.560
bit. And that's a good example of if we could expand on a financial model for this council and the community to see that, hey, we've crossed our tees, dotted our eyes, this is everything that we can see. Um,

494
02:38:10.560 --> 02:38:33.359
>> Mr. Mayor, >> if there's 200 spots, that'd be >> Yeah, we'll just Was that 50 sign? Uh, yeah. 20 signs. Sorry. Um, so 15. That's not a large expense, but

495
02:38:33.359 --> 02:38:48.240
we don't want to miss it. Yes, Mayor Pro Tim Jackson. on these projections. Um, I really the the occupancy concerns me as far as us looking at actual revenue that we might

496
02:38:48.240 --> 02:39:04.560
generate simply because if you're not looking our busy season starts right before Christmas around the 24th, 23rd, goes through midappril really slows off in April at the end of

497
02:39:04.560 --> 02:39:22.240
April. that May slows down, June slows down. During those that May to December, there are really what we would be looking at is who's here on the weekends because you go to any of our parking

498
02:39:22.240 --> 02:39:39.600
locations at the end of the presidential streets and they're empty a lot of the time. Now holidays not as much and um you know holiday weeks will be busier but when we're looking at projected revenue if we're not looking

499
02:39:39.600 --> 02:39:55.600
at that it's like our EVs where we think we're going to make a ton of money during on EV chargers during the peak period and then everyone leaves and come to find out we didn't make what we thought. So, I think that we need to

500
02:39:55.600 --> 02:40:11.120
adjust those figures and look at both sets of figures because if you're not looking at it that way, I don't believe it's going to be an accurate projection >> of potential revenue. >> Mr. Mayor, >> may >> Yes. Okay.

501
02:40:11.120 --> 02:40:28.800
>> Um Joey is already committed to making us a sensitivity table which is going to be adjusted. I'm going to think anywhere from 20% up to 70% occupancy. >> And we also have to factor in that there's going to be days where we're

502
02:40:28.800 --> 02:40:47.200
going to have a Blue Origin maybe a launch, >> crude launches. >> Um, but you know, and that that crowds the city. I mean, we we've already witnessed the traffic issues and uh all of that, but uh you know, we don't know.

503
02:40:47.200 --> 02:41:02.720
We really we don't know when those launches are going to be. So that's going to be an unknown uh for us when those parking lots are going to fill, but I think if we if Joy provides us with that sensitivity table at those

504
02:41:02.720 --> 02:41:18.160
variances, then we're going to get a worst case scenario and then, you know, pie in the sky. So I think I think finance has got that covered for us. >> Mayor. >> Yes, sir. So other factors to consider

505
02:41:18.160 --> 02:41:33.439
is the power the city has through its ordinance and when you decide from a time wise from a time slot when you want to regulate parking when you start charging when you stop charging. Uh number one. Number two the frequency and the volume in which our code enforcement

506
02:41:33.439 --> 02:41:49.920
officers make their passes. They can make a pass right behind them. Someone goes to park. They may or may not pay or they do either way and then the enforcement officer comes back around uh to enforce. So there's it's not just the people who are paying to park that we're looking to capture, but it's also the

507
02:41:49.920 --> 02:42:05.200
manner in which we enforce the frequency and volume of our passes. The way we can alter our employees schedules so that we are here, someone is working throughout the entire time that paid parking um time slots are designated by our

508
02:42:05.200 --> 02:42:20.560
ordinance. And then of course granting the city manager uh in the ordinance the latitude uh to um elevate fees or not if necessary based on event specific times. Uh do you stay fixed all the time or do you grant that latitude for these

509
02:42:20.560 --> 02:42:36.880
special events where you know it's going to you know bring in more frequency and volume of travelers. So uh I think it's a best guess scenario is what it is. And as I've said to many, you know, all of you privately, I think we're going to have to realize a full year if we were to go this route. We're going to have to

510
02:42:36.880 --> 02:42:53.359
spend a full year really to understand truly the amount of revenue that the city will generate to return to the general fund. >> Thank you. The the residents uh the 15 to 20% you

511
02:42:53.359 --> 02:43:10.319
know we the residents would not pay. There was discussions about, you know, what about Bvard County? Um, we are elected to represent the residents of Cape Canaveral. Obviously, Bvard County uh is a is our county and community.

512
02:43:10.319 --> 02:43:26.479
when just taking not getting into that necessarily but when we say no cost to the residents as uh the statements were made today and I saw as well is it's no cost today but in the future I think

513
02:43:26.479 --> 02:43:42.640
Milton Freriedman said there's nothing more permanent than a temporary government program and I I've seen that and I know that's that can happen no matter what we do to protect it. But no cost.

514
02:43:42.640 --> 02:43:59.040
What does that mean? Is I mean there would be a cost for the residents, right? I mean time at a minimum, right, to download the app and it's there's no no app because it's

515
02:43:59.040 --> 02:44:13.040
it's web- based. You just need a smartphone to access and you you can create your login if you're a resident. Um you don't need to download an app >> or or a computer >> your home if you want to >> computer or a tablet.

516
02:44:13.040 --> 02:44:30.240
>> Um now and you're looking just at the rate table with the assumptions, right? Not the not the proposal for the so there's a there's a a fee when you typically when per a lot of permits are

517
02:44:30.240 --> 02:44:45.840
not free, right? There are different types of permits that cost money. And just like when you pay for your parking on the beach, there's that few cents transaction fee. There's also a transaction fee for the permit. So, but if you wanted to do zero, and it's on

518
02:44:45.840 --> 02:45:01.279
the proposal, which I believe will become, you know, part of your discussion. uh if it's 0 uh permits for residents, the the city can choose to pay the transaction cost

519
02:45:01.279 --> 02:45:16.960
that we charge for the permit. So there is a cost. >> What is the cost that T2 charges for the permit trans? I >> believe it's $3.50 >> flat fee. >> Yeah. or or up to or up to four and a

520
02:45:16.960 --> 02:45:33.520
half% whichever is greater which is their zero cost permits it's going to be the 350 >> okay 350 flat or 4% or whatever whatever's greater those two >> in the future if you add another parking area that's like constru you know

521
02:45:33.520 --> 02:45:49.200
permits for a construction company you might charge them and then it would be greater if the permit cost money >> so that's an expense to the the resident or the city could absorb orbit. Is that factored in the expenses here? >> No, it's not.

522
02:45:49.200 --> 02:46:06.399
>> Okay. And is that every how often does a permit have to be obtained? >> So, if you do one-year permits, then once a year there would be the transaction cost. If you do two-year permits for residents, then once every

523
02:46:06.399 --> 02:46:21.600
two years, it's just a transaction uh fee cost. So per per transaction. So once a year if you did a guest permits, you know, if you allowed residents to like add a vehicle

524
02:46:21.600 --> 02:46:37.200
for a week or something like that for their family or friends, then there would be a transaction fee on that one permit, but you decide how you want to do that ordinance. >> And what does the permit cost typically?

525
02:46:37.200 --> 02:46:52.640
Is that something we would set or >> Yeah. Yeah. Like uh you mean permits that cost money is up to >> if a resident wanted to download go online and get >> something for their family member visiting.

526
02:46:52.640 --> 02:47:08.800
>> Yeah. Uh >> because it would be a if it's a percent, it would have to be applied to some amount of money, I would assume. >> Well, the percentage is never in these scenarios going to come into effect. Again, if you had permits that cost like 10,000 a month for a a general

527
02:47:08.800 --> 02:47:26.319
contractor to use public parking spaces, then the four and a half, but when you're talking about, you know, uh a Z permit, it's just the flat 350. >> So, but a non-resident could buy a one or twoyear.

528
02:47:26.319 --> 02:47:42.479
No, a non-resident could not buy a permit because they wouldn't have the documentation to prove that they're a resident that you decide to require in the ordinance. >> Is the permit like an annual pass essentially? Is that >> for in this scenario if it's a one-year

529
02:47:42.479 --> 02:47:59.840
permit? That's what it would be for the resident for their vehicle. >> So, a a non-res or an annual pass would not be >> right. If the city wanted to sell annual passes for non residents, that could be

530
02:47:59.840 --> 02:48:16.399
something that you could choose to do um you know now or in the future. So you could >> sell permits to non-residents. >> Hey, if I could, mayor, real fast. Um >> I think I know what you're asking. So,

531
02:48:16.399 --> 02:48:33.920
if we decide that we um let's say somebody from Orlando comes over here and wants to buy a permit, that way they can come over here every weekend, park at the beach, >> and they don't have to pay for parking. That parking fee would, let's say, we put in the ordinance that we all agree

532
02:48:33.920 --> 02:48:49.439
on $75 for the year. >> That $ 350 that he's talking about would be within that $75. Does that make sense? >> It is. So, we would have the decision to offer an annual pass, correct? If we if we >> chose

533
02:48:49.439 --> 02:49:05.680
>> the T2 would make a flat 350 or 4 and a.5% uh that's going to be greater of the 350. So, that's a good example. If we charge $75 for an annual pass, you would

534
02:49:05.680 --> 02:49:21.200
collect the the 4 and a.5% of that, which uh five I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Well, yeah, it's going to be close, I guess. Um Okay. No, that that's helpful. I know that. Um, so the residents that

535
02:49:21.200 --> 02:49:39.880
that we would still have to pay as a city to avoid the cost on the resident 350 times however many 5,000 well I mean we have 10,000 people. Um,

536
02:49:42.560 --> 02:49:59.520
okay. So, council, do we want to h uh maybe take these numbers and and think through we've heard signs, we've heard payroll. I think as council member Willis said, a sensitivity analysis is being completed by our fi interim finance director.

537
02:49:59.520 --> 02:50:15.040
Thank you. I think that will be helpful. the proposal that I think you referenced. Um I think if between now and the next meeting having that would be the the second thing.

538
02:50:15.040 --> 02:50:32.640
Uh the boilerplate or a sim a contract would be the third thing and the last would be I think a community that has implemented a similar solution to us I guess would be the the fourth thing. trying to summarize some of that the

539
02:50:32.640 --> 02:50:48.800
requests before we meet again. >> Any any data mapping or >> and the data mapping of how it's architecture set up under software >> where where they're going out to get additional information how that is going to be gathered. So

540
02:50:48.800 --> 02:51:11.680
>> council is there anything else that we want to review prior to us reconvening and miss anything? Okay, >> good. Any final questions? I think that is Are we at a good stopping point on

541
02:51:11.680 --> 02:51:28.720
this particular item? So, >> okay. And I know that I recognize the questions that that some of the residents asked uh in here and I think we've got those captured um and we're going to work through those.

542
02:51:28.720 --> 02:51:45.520
So with that, um I did get a question or another card uh in it. Dr. Roberts, you've submitted another card. We've closed public comment, but it is a workshop. Could is it related to this

543
02:51:45.520 --> 02:52:00.720
beach parking or is it on the next item? >> No, it's related to this. Um, >> okay. >> If I could just make an observation >> is I Yeah, I'm going to just check with the council and coun or Dr. Roberts

544
02:52:00.720 --> 02:52:17.760
wants to make an observation. Council, are we opposed to that? Any issue? Yes. As you're coming forward, um, I think after this comment, we can transition if that's okay with the city manager. >> Absolutely. We got everything you need there. >> Get back to where the I have comments

545
02:52:17.760 --> 02:52:32.880
>> real quickly. Uh what worries me is I know we keep saying a fifth of our residents are full-time and that worries me that we're misrepresenting the demographics of the city. And this to me is giving a a distorted view of what in

546
02:52:32.880 --> 02:52:49.200
particular this proposal is giving as well as anything else that we're dealing with because a lot of our non-homestead uh owners, you know, are still living in our city at least 6 months or more. And I just hate for us to we just continue to in my opinion misrepresent the

547
02:52:49.200 --> 02:53:05.279
demographics of the city. The other concern I've got is affordability because a number of our residents as we know are trailer part and trailer parks they're not necessarily I was just looking at what we do have. It's like 10% of our residents are below the poverty line. We're assuming they have

548
02:53:05.279 --> 02:53:21.279
smartphones. We're assuming they can deal with the administrative requirements. And it just worries me that we're having a distorted view of our city. So, I would just recommend that we go back and ask the finance department if they would to or whomever

549
02:53:21.279 --> 02:53:37.920
to give us a better representation of our city because I think we're in my opinion misrepresenting it to our residents in workshops like this and that just worries me tremendously as may it may worry others too, but I think we're getting a distorted viewpoint of

550
02:53:37.920 --> 02:53:53.359
our income and our burden and opportunity. >> Thank you, Dr. Roberts. It's an excellent point. We have long-term 15, 20 nonhomestead residents who call Cape Canaveral home

551
02:53:53.359 --> 02:54:09.600
and uh they are in that nonhomestead class. Absolutely. And I think the property appraisers office I think uh as we head into this budget season um we've discussed it recently, but we do need to

552
02:54:09.600 --> 02:54:27.520
take another look at that as we're considering it. Thank you for that. With that, I think uh do we want to transition now, council, or do we >> have anything else? Can >> can I throw one question in? >> Yes, please. >> Sebastian, you said there was a phone

553
02:54:27.520 --> 02:54:43.040
number for people who don't have smartphones. >> That's correct. >> So, they can they can dial in. So, the no smartphone thing is really not an issue. >> That's that's right. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Wouldn't they need a smartphone to dial in from the beach? >> They would need any kind of phone. Really? >> No. Any uh Well, it has to be a a mobile

554
02:54:43.040 --> 02:54:57.920
phone. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> With internet access. >> No, they can call the number. >> Oh, >> yeah. >> Sebastian, before we transition, I just want to say thank you again for your time and sorting through it. And I appreciate you talking to the whole room

555
02:54:57.920 --> 02:55:15.840
today. >> Yeah. Well, it was a pleasure. Nice to see everybody. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. And the T2 team. >> Okay. I got a I uh I'm at 356. I think I got a request

556
02:55:15.840 --> 02:55:31.439
here for a quick break. Uh before we transition, I think that allows some people to to transition out as well. Does that sound good? Let's uh as soon as everyone's back, we'll uh get started. Try to get it

557
02:55:31.439 --> 03:10:15.680
like five or no more than 10 minutes. So, with that, we'll reconvene. I'll be back. I was I didn't hold my word last time. >> You know what you were asking? All righty. We'll call the meeting back to order. It

558
03:10:15.680 --> 03:10:30.880
is 4:11 p.m. We are at our June 9th uh Cape Canaveral City Workshop. We have just finished up item number 5.1, a discussion item uh beach in paid parking program. And now we are moving on to

559
03:10:30.880 --> 03:10:48.240
item 5.2 which is titled parks recreation and community affairs department fee schedule. With that I'll ask our city manager to kick us off. >> Thank you mayor. Thank you council and thank you community for participating in this workshop on this item. So, this was

560
03:10:48.240 --> 03:11:04.240
a um an issue that was brought to my attention uh back in September about some services that we were offering to our residents uh through their insurance providers and uh resulting in the city council not receiving or I'm sorry the

561
03:11:04.240 --> 03:11:20.960
city Cape Canaveral not receiving its full fee scale that it was charging uh and there was money going uh to those providers and so uh this was a subject of many conversations dating back to September. He's been before this board before. Uh we did a joint workshop with

562
03:11:20.960 --> 03:11:38.319
the culture leisure services committee board and the council about two months ago uh to hash out the issues and that board went back and they created a fee scale and some did some other work and today they want to present that information uh to the council for your

563
03:11:38.319 --> 03:11:53.840
consideration and we have staff on hand to answer any questions and take it from here. >> Great. Thank you. All right. So, um the summary that I provided, um I think

564
03:11:53.840 --> 03:12:10.160
May 19th was the original time we were supposed to discuss this and the the meeting ran very very late. Um, and it is kind of a complicated topic because um, first and foremost, this council has not been presented with a full

565
03:12:10.160 --> 03:12:25.040
departmentwide fee schedule in any recent history that I've been able to track down, probably since Nancy Hansen developed the recreation department and she passed away in 2001. So, um, when I

566
03:12:25.040 --> 03:12:42.319
took over this department, uh, in March of 2022, um, I kind of I had been with that department previously, so I understood some of the general workings. I understood the fee schedules and whatnot. But as I grew in my role as a director, I got more familiar with the

567
03:12:42.319 --> 03:12:57.520
code. And one of the things in the code says that city council may establish a fee schedule for the use of its facilities. And as I started digging into things because we had a couple new buildings coming online, which the council needed to set fees for or

568
03:12:57.520 --> 03:13:13.920
consider fees for, I started realizing that the fees hadn't changed for any of the existing facilities in many, many years, um, more than a decade. And there was also no real record of this council

569
03:13:13.920 --> 03:13:30.399
approving the fees that were out there. I'm not saying that they didn't. I just saying I couldn't find the record. So I thought it was time with uh as uh Mayor Pro Tim Jackson indicated and um well actually everybody on the dis indicated there's been a lot of changes. We've got

570
03:13:30.399 --> 03:13:46.239
new buildings. We have uh increasing expenses um and we have a lot of uh new people here. So it's time to kind of revisit the entire thing. My first objective was to get some fees

571
03:13:46.239 --> 03:14:02.479
established that had no records for their approval and their blessing by council. And then once those were in place so that we could continue renting our facilities within the good graces of our code, the next task I had in front of me

572
03:14:02.479 --> 03:14:20.479
was to get a combined fee schedule. And one of the things um that needed to really be addressed within that fee schedule was the structure of it. And um the there were several goals and this is

573
03:14:20.479 --> 03:14:37.680
outlined in the um in the feast in the in the summary for this item. And the first and foremost goal was to reduce the overarching tax burden for residents and subsidizing recreational activities. Um

574
03:14:37.680 --> 03:14:52.479
the city manager mentioned the third party insurance providers. Um we needed to reduce the revenue gap that those had inadvertently created. You know the law of unintended consequences. Um and then balance the need of the facility users

575
03:14:52.479 --> 03:15:10.960
and the city. Um, and beyond that, um, one of the things that that really stood out to me was the fact that at a lot of our facilities, there's only one, um, group in our differentiated structure that ever paid a full flat

576
03:15:10.960 --> 03:15:27.760
rate. Everyone else was provided a discount for one reason or another. regardless of where they lived, how old they were, where they came from, how long they stayed, everybody seemed to get a discount. And that's not really a very good um business model for

577
03:15:27.760 --> 03:15:43.840
long-term. And that's also not in the best interest of our residents who are the ones that are the the most frequent users of the facilities. So, it took me um over a year's worth of research and

578
03:15:43.840 --> 03:16:00.399
um back and forth with our board. Our board was heavily involved in this and I was finally able um to restructure something in a way that seemed fair to me. And when I brought just the sample of what that would look like to our

579
03:16:00.399 --> 03:16:18.239
board, they decided they didn't want just a sample. they decided they wanted to turn that with a couple tweaks into a full-on proposal for your consideration. So that is what is in front of you today. So some of the other goals that came out

580
03:16:18.239 --> 03:16:33.439
of that were to create membership and fee categories that encourage more flexible and frequent use of city facilities with the intent to improve community access to wellness opportunities and social opportunities. Um and then we were also trying to

581
03:16:33.439 --> 03:16:49.120
acquies requests from the current patrons related to combined facility use access and membership options. So, oh thank you for bringing that up. Um so there's a lot of different changes

582
03:16:49.120 --> 03:17:06.560
and I don't want to um overburden you with reading all of this um because what you guys ended up with was a four-page version. and the original one I wrote was six pages. So, um, thank your uh, city clerk for the mercy on that one.

583
03:17:06.560 --> 03:17:23.600
But I am prepared to, um, address any questions, um, go over the changes if you want me to, um, and what they mean in the long term. U,, this is kind of a bold move because it's it really is

584
03:17:23.600 --> 03:17:39.920
restructuring the way we do our daily facility use. Um, and then it also adds some new revenue opportunities that are based on requests. I've had requests, particularly since we did the um,

585
03:17:39.920 --> 03:17:56.800
upgrades at Veterans Memorial Park for people that would like to rent it for different activities. Um, and I've also had requests for people that wanted to rent different areas of our facilities that uh, were not rentable before. and I couldn't charge people because I didn't have a fee that was approved by council

586
03:17:56.800 --> 03:18:11.760
and I wasn't going to violate our own code by just making that up. Um, and there's also a couple uh other areas such as um the city runs its own leagues, athletic leagues for adults.

587
03:18:11.760 --> 03:18:28.399
And we also have a couple athletic leagues that are independent such as USATA leagues and Space Coast um Space Coast Ladies Tennis League. And they're not community partners, but they do call our courts home and they have for many

588
03:18:28.399 --> 03:18:44.319
years. So determining what to charge them added another layer that we needed to consider because sometimes they're taking up all the courts and our local regular players aren't able to play on those courts. So, we needed to account

589
03:18:44.319 --> 03:19:01.439
for the fact that, you know, if if we're not going to be able to let people do their daily routine of coming and playing in the mornings or whatnot because of this or that, we should have a a rate schedule in place for those nonpartner leagues. So, um at your

590
03:19:01.439 --> 03:19:17.040
direction, Mayor, I can either keep going or you can steer my comments so that um I'm not reading all of this. And you're referring to the agenda summary on the screen here in front of us. I think >> yes.

591
03:19:17.040 --> 03:19:33.840
>> We we might need to pause or try to get a copy. Does any of the council have a copy of that? Can we get five copies of the agenda summary um at some point? I think if if available

592
03:19:33.840 --> 03:19:50.080
>> I brought one from last meeting. >> Oh, is it the Okay. So, >> yeah, it's the same one from it just rolled over. >> Okay, now I definitely have that. Um, all right. >> We can go make copies if you want. >> I mean,

593
03:19:50.080 --> 03:20:04.960
I think it's important >> you're going to be working off that document. >> It's already on the printer. >> Uh, make it four. I don't need one. I have mine. >> Thank you so much. So, >> that's very helpful. I think

594
03:20:04.960 --> 03:20:27.040
>> no. >> Okay. >> So, the fee category one, so how many categories are there? >> Um, for the purpose of this, I kind of separated it into two different areas. >> Okay. Um

595
03:20:27.040 --> 03:20:42.640
the first area for that is facility use which is the people that come in to use the workout room, people that come in to use the gymnasium and people that come in to the Nancy Hansen to use utilize the courts. >> And then the second area is facility rentals. The people that rent our

596
03:20:42.640 --> 03:20:59.760
pavilions, the people that want to rent spaces at our parks. um people that want to um one of the things that this city was known for for quite some time and I've heard uh that we had a very affluent clientele to include our own Sheriff Ivy once upon a time there was a

597
03:20:59.760 --> 03:21:14.800
uh raetball tournament that took place here every year for about 30 years and those the organization that hosted that rented the entire Nancy Hansen facility at that time. So, that's a that's a

598
03:21:14.800 --> 03:21:29.359
consideration as well. So, um facility rentals and the daily or general facility use, I've kind of broken it up because there's different goals and different ways to look at how

599
03:21:29.359 --> 03:21:47.120
that's done. Um. >> Mhm. >> So, Molly, behind the definitions, I see what you're looking at and I understand that, but behind the definitions >> and attachment to

600
03:21:47.120 --> 03:22:04.640
>> it gives us that information about well, that's the the attachment to is what starts with our gives the other meeting. But if you keep going, it's attachment three. I'm sorry. That's

601
03:22:04.640 --> 03:22:20.399
that's where you see how it's broken out that you're discussing. Correct. >> Correct. That would be the proposed fe >> for the general facility use and then also the facility rentals. And based on those definitions, I went

602
03:22:20.399 --> 03:22:37.120
in and and put a description on each one so I know cuz based on those when you're looking at that attachment three >> Mhm. >> Um under the general facility use, >> you have different levels. So like the

603
03:22:37.120 --> 03:22:53.840
C5 um daily court pass would be monthly or annual membership opt membership option allowing unlimited visits to utilize the court. Am I right? >> Okay. And then C5 basic basic monthly or

604
03:22:53.840 --> 03:23:10.640
annual membership option for the C5 allows for use of upstairs workout room and walking track only. >> Correct. And then C5 premium um daily pass or premium membership option allowing for unlimited visits to

605
03:23:10.640 --> 03:23:26.640
utilize the courts at C5 and the upstairs amenities um workout room and walking track only. >> Okay. So those definitions at the beginning are the ones that define that.

606
03:23:26.640 --> 03:23:43.760
I just I just highlighted I put it into a PDF and highlighted put the definition. So the C5 premium um is the one that gives you access to the courts and the gym and walking >> everything. Then NHRC court pass is for

607
03:23:43.760 --> 03:24:00.000
the annual monthly or annual membership option allowing unlimited visits to utilize the courts >> only at the Nancy Hansen. Right. Um there's a there's the option for that and then there's when when you get into

608
03:24:00.000 --> 03:24:14.800
the monthly and the annual and this is based on some community feed a great deal of community feedback that we've gotten over the years. Um the all access pass, the court pass can give you it's

609
03:24:14.800 --> 03:24:29.600
it's dual. It's either either or. So if it's raining at the Nancy Hansen, you can go to the inside. Okay. According to the >> So you see the duel and the duel is only offered under the daily, >> right? >> Okay. >> Yeah.

610
03:24:29.600 --> 03:24:45.520
>> Um and then you have all access uh for the and the monthly plan, >> right? >> That gives you access to the C5, the NHR, the Nancy Hansen, and the upstairs amenities of the walking track and the workout room.

611
03:24:45.520 --> 03:25:02.560
>> Correct. Then you have annual passes and you have resident um and then you you have the different levels resident, non-resident, resident, senior, first responder or veteran. Uh

612
03:25:02.560 --> 03:25:18.560
non-resident, senior, first responder, veteran and or child. Right. >> Right. And then you have those same levels dual C5 basic, C5 premium and all access. Do I understand that right? >> Correct. And I can elaborate a little

613
03:25:18.560 --> 03:25:34.319
bit on on all of those if you want. >> The definitions are great. Thank you. >> Yeah. I as I was developing things, I had another screen going where I was adding things so that the to ease the communication. >> That's why it reads well. Okay. Thank

614
03:25:34.319 --> 03:25:54.160
you. Yeah, cuz >> I see dual court pass. Okay. >> Um, I have one more question for her. I'm sorry, Molly. >> So, Molly, where would our senior programs

615
03:25:54.160 --> 03:26:09.840
like Silver Sneakers and >> the other ones fall in on this? So, one way that I part of the uh purpose of separating it like this with the basic and the premium membership packages is

616
03:26:09.840 --> 03:26:27.279
so that we can continue taking those those insurance compensation programs should the council decide to and still allow access without creating that gap. Um when with within the contracts of

617
03:26:27.279 --> 03:26:41.680
these programs, which we've determined to be very non-negotiable in many many respects, they're boilerplate. Um we are required to provide access for those um clients of them to whatever we consider

618
03:26:41.680 --> 03:26:59.200
our basic membership package. So, if our basic membership package includes only the upstairs and the gym, that means if they would like to play pickle ball, basketball, volleyball, anything that uses the courts, they would have to pay the fee for that.

619
03:26:59.200 --> 03:27:16.080
>> Okay. And when I I've looked at the contracts on these um so for example on silver sneakers it was $27 for

620
03:27:16.080 --> 03:27:33.439
a number of visits that it would pay for. So it was like 20 it would cover $27 a month of visits >> maximum. >> Maximum >> and they could go as many times as they wanted. >> Oh no. down in the contract. I didn't see that going as many times as they wanted.

621
03:27:33.439 --> 03:27:48.640
>> Yeah, they only would that was the maximum monthly payout. They would pay us per visit up to 10 visits. >> Okay. >> So, if you wanted to go every day, we would still only get $27. >> Okay. But that's not really how it's

622
03:27:48.640 --> 03:28:05.120
defined in this contract that I saw. And that's why I'm saying, "Oh, no, wait a minute." because I literally pulled this out earlier today and maybe city attorney can you help me with that because I was reading the different contracts and they're different. >> They're different.

623
03:28:05.120 --> 03:28:20.720
>> Each one's different. Um and I noticed this one that pays $27 period for the month. >> But I didn't see the part that says unlimited visit visits. There was a definition in there. I'm just trying to

624
03:28:20.720 --> 03:28:40.720
find it now. Um, >> and that con that contract is between who are the two parties that the one you're referring to. >> This one was um the SKM uh Silver Sneakers. What it's uh let me

625
03:28:40.720 --> 03:28:55.040
get to the top of >> I think Silver Sneakers also goes by Tivity. >> Tivity is the one I'm looking at. Tivity Health Services LLC. And um so it goes through the 27th of 2027.

626
03:28:55.040 --> 03:29:12.080
But when I was looking at terms, let's see. Um program utilization. Um okay. Silver Sneakers um fitness program offering basic access

627
03:29:12.080 --> 03:29:29.520
to program participants. $3 per program visit up to $27 per program participant. So $3 per visit. >> So if you take $27 and divide it by three, that's how many visits are supposed to be getting, not unlimited

628
03:29:29.520 --> 03:29:47.200
for the month. And so I was like, why are we saying unlimited for the month? >> Because they only pay us for those visits. Their members are allowed to continue to come. >> Who allows their members to continue to come? because our contract doesn't say that. >> The contract and all of the

629
03:29:47.200 --> 03:30:02.399
representatives I've spoken with said that we're not allowed to limit how many times that's just the maximum number of times that they will pay. >> Okay. Well, let's figure it out. I mean, I think no matter what it you're saying

630
03:30:02.399 --> 03:30:19.520
that'd be nine. So, nine are you saying the way you read it under nine visits? >> Yeah. It says >> on So, what happens on the 10th visit? And that's what I want to know because that where in the contract can you point me to where it says that we have to just

631
03:30:19.520 --> 03:30:36.479
allow them to come any number of unlimited number of times. >> I will have to pull that up cuz I'm look I didn't see that. I'm not arguing Molly. You may know you may have seen it and I may and that may be fine. I'm not but I didn't see it when I went through.

632
03:30:36.479 --> 03:30:51.279
And so to me, it looked like we could limit it based on that. They pay $3 for up to $27 a month and then after that seems to me it would be billable. >> Wouldn't Wouldn't that operate just like

633
03:30:51.279 --> 03:31:06.720
any other health insurance plan? I mean, you can go get so many tests >> until your deductible is met, but uh and they'll, you know, they'll pay for it, but uh you can't have unlimited

634
03:31:06.720 --> 03:31:25.520
doctor visits. >> They're only going to they're only going to pay for X amount. >> Yeah. >> Because once once you go beyond that, they're they're going to lose money. And they're not going to lose money. It has another program in pricing note for

635
03:31:25.520 --> 03:31:41.120
activivity >> that says 250 per member visit up to $20 per member per month. But I'm not finding where it says oh and you just have but here come all the conditions. Um but I'm not finding where it just

636
03:31:41.120 --> 03:31:57.279
says you have to let people just keep coming. >> And is that I don't know if I've got that agreement which is okay. Was that sent out to us or is that something you just requested? >> Yes, I asked for it and he sent it out to um yesterday to us all. So, we have

637
03:31:57.279 --> 03:32:13.279
gotten a copy of this, but if you look >> Mhm. >> So, there's >> where's this section you were referencing on the uh shall not exceed. >> It doesn't say shall not exceed, but it

638
03:32:13.279 --> 03:32:28.720
says this is what they pay. Programs and pricing. Silver Sneakers Fitness Program Basic Member access$ 250 per member up to $20 >> and then on up it had it had the $3 for

639
03:32:28.720 --> 03:32:45.840
27 bit uh $27 is what they pay but I haven't found anywhere that it says oh and by the way you got to just let them come as many times as you want for free after that. I hadn't seen that part but I'm trying to find it. That's why I asked >> I mean it's a 14page contract so there's

640
03:32:45.840 --> 03:33:03.520
there's a lot to the >> the standard terms and conditions >> also the basic >> and that link it says uh I don't know if you have is that something that would further >> well it's on a portal and I don't have

641
03:33:03.520 --> 03:33:18.800
>> but you know that's these are the things we discussed this in our first workshop of how are we going to monitor how many visits someone has and ensure that their facility is offering the right service

642
03:33:18.800 --> 03:33:36.080
per the contract. I couldn't find it in this contract, but I'm looking still and that's why I was hoping you might know, Molly, but I know there are three contracts and I've looked at different ones. >> So, that basic says $2.50

643
03:33:36.080 --> 03:33:53.600
per visit >> and 20 business >> with a cap of 20 >> of cap of $20. Okay, that's the basics. So, >> and the other one in this referenced, >> it seems to conflict because one place

644
03:33:53.600 --> 03:34:09.680
it says $3 up to 27 and then toward the end it says 250 a visit up to a maximum of 20 >> for the same service or >> for the basic. >> Oh, they're both basic. But this one, the one that is $350 up to $27

645
03:34:09.680 --> 03:34:24.479
>> is the actual addendum where it renewed, I believe. And that's where we're getting the >> uh the conflict. >> Okay. >> Okay. Is that it was a a renewable addendum. Oops, didn't mean to do that.

646
03:34:24.479 --> 03:34:42.800
But if you look at it, um where is it? Let me see. Okay. So, I would think that the amendments would supersede our city attorney the >> the original agreement. >> Yeah. See, this was 312

647
03:34:42.800 --> 03:35:02.960
and it goes down and talks about >> $3 per person up to $27. But I don't I haven't found anywhere that says the city has to keep continuing to provide services under these contracts if they wanted to

648
03:35:02.960 --> 03:35:21.120
come in 30 days. I don't see that >> $3 per >> Well, that that's just defining how much they are willing to pay, >> not >> Yeah. Well, and that and here and you're exactly right, uh, Council Member Willis, but as we talked about this

649
03:35:21.120 --> 03:35:37.279
before in the prior workshop, we talked about and even it was discussed, we don't have a way or supposedly our system will not um, keep up with how many times someone's been here. And I was going to try to make my way over

650
03:35:37.279 --> 03:35:51.760
there and look at the system, but just haven't had a chance with all of this going that we've had going on. Um, but is there a way for us to modify the systems that we use, Molly, to be able to keep up with how many? Because if

651
03:35:51.760 --> 03:36:07.520
we're billing people for coming and we're putting these fees in place, we have to have a way to track these fees and that includes these the senior programs. So, for silver sneakers,

652
03:36:07.520 --> 03:36:26.640
oops, I hate iPhones on the Silver Sneakers website because some of this stuff actually came through during my multiple phone calls with some of these um places. Silver Sneakers website, Silver Sneakers program does not impose a fixed number

653
03:36:26.640 --> 03:36:43.840
of visits per month on members. You may attend as many classes and use the facilities as you like as long as you are enrolled in the program and the location is participating. >> So enrolled in the program maybe that's not the basic program. Maybe that's like

654
03:36:43.840 --> 03:37:01.439
a premium. I don't I'm just shooting from the >> Yeah, their their program is their program. We determine what's basic and premium. You're referring to silver sneakers program >> specifically in that case >> which is the Tivity Tivity Health.

655
03:37:01.439 --> 03:37:17.920
>> Okay. And then I do see one of the conditions in there is access to the program at no charge. The facility will provide all participants access to the program at no charge to the participants.

656
03:37:17.920 --> 03:37:31.920
So that makes me wonder >> what's the program? >> The program is a silver and sneakers basic or whatever we're offering and if you look right here >> Mhm.

657
03:37:31.920 --> 03:37:49.359
But is I mean how can a city attorney how can a vendor that is we're providing a location for their service that's discounted dictate to us as a c as as a city that we have to provide it above and beyond

658
03:37:49.359 --> 03:38:05.359
what they're paying for for the entire rest of the month without with no charge. >> Is that is that really how this works? >> I mean that was my understanding. Um but I mean it's a contractual arrangement right so the city doesn't have to accept

659
03:38:05.359 --> 03:38:22.239
these programs right into into the uh you know the center right but once you accept it I mean there are terms and conditions my understanding was that they had um a maximum payment cap but

660
03:38:22.239 --> 03:38:41.840
have can can go to the center every day >> but >> and that's how it was always explained to me by each of these providers because one of the specific questions I asked was can we start charging them after the 10th visit and their response

661
03:38:41.840 --> 03:38:57.680
was no >> the top of this page what's this title the standard >> okay well I think >> and that's just one of the programs so you know as I looked through these

662
03:38:57.680 --> 03:39:17.600
>> and then if you look at let's see which one's this one. Let's go back to page one. So fitness passport. So optimum health. >> Mhm. >> On that one specifically. I just looked at the

663
03:39:17.600 --> 03:39:42.560
um what does it say? visits to the participant. >> So there's individual contracts with every >> person and those contracts within the same silver sneakers can be different.

664
03:39:42.560 --> 03:39:57.760
>> No, there's three different providers. One is Silver Sneakers and one calls there something else. sash calls there something else and then there's another one and so it's different providers that we're just using a term of silver sneakers. >> Okay.

665
03:39:57.760 --> 03:40:13.040
>> But the the thing that is astounding to me is that we accepted a contract that is giving them the power to dictate to us what we're willing to pay for. and the fact that these facilities have to

666
03:40:13.040 --> 03:40:28.560
be open to accommodate these people once they're past that amount that they will pay. And that's a low number on the payment for that. Look at the fees we're looking at putting in compared to that.

667
03:40:28.560 --> 03:40:44.160
>> And so, um, it makes me question those, although and I love the fee schedule and the way you broke it out, um, Molly. think it was for me once I copied those in from the definitions I understood

668
03:40:44.160 --> 03:40:59.680
exactly where you were going with that. >> But this was still an outstanding item from our prior workshop, >> right? that and and so when I got the contract for that and started looking at it, I mean, this means that, you know,

669
03:40:59.680 --> 03:41:16.800
some of our residents could possibly Well, let me go back to what the residents are paying >> on page three of the optimum contract right at the top. >> Uhhuh. >> Sorry, I'm not used to only one screen.

670
03:41:16.800 --> 03:41:34.080
Um each participating facility should should provide all members with unlimited visits to the participating facility and all standard network services during the hours um of the operation as advertised in by the participating facility. Um yada yada

671
03:41:34.080 --> 03:41:51.600
yada um in connection with the participating in the fitness passport program. Each participating facility will provide members with unlimited visits to the participating facility at the rate set forth in appendix A. And that's optimum.

672
03:41:51.600 --> 03:42:08.239
>> Okay. And I think optimum is this one right here. >> And there was language like that in the other provider, the t um trivia or >> tip tivity >> and it see and it appeared to conflict.

673
03:42:08.239 --> 03:42:23.200
>> Mhm. Cuz if you take the language you read, does this one have any type of conflicting language or is that the only thing? >> This one is >> like a cap of >> 20 or $27.

674
03:42:23.200 --> 03:42:47.359
>> This one's a service agreement and it had that but then obligations network. This gives the pricing down here. So it's like talking about coverage here, what what we would accept as a

675
03:42:47.359 --> 03:43:02.880
facility. And so if you do the math and run it under whether it's one of the providers, there's going to be a good deal and then you know or >> and then I found that exact same language on page 8 of 27.

676
03:43:02.880 --> 03:43:19.120
>> That's where I just found it too. And on the Ashg agreement, the Ash Fitness agreement. >> Yeah. Unlimited access. And their visits. Oh, it even this one even goes so far as to say, "And their visits may exceed the number of visits compensated per month."

677
03:43:19.120 --> 03:43:33.439
>> Okay, that's important. So, I think Are you on the optimum one here? So she to get >> ahead is No, I think what you have here says $320

678
03:43:33.439 --> 03:43:53.600
per facility with a maximum of $32. Okay. And then but it has what was read and then the ash. Is that the third provider for silver sneaker? >> Well, they're not all silver sneakers. >> They're just insurance compensation programs. got. Okay.

679
03:43:53.600 --> 03:44:10.960
>> And that one, let's see, I've got that one, too. >> Silver Sneakers is just the most established one. It's been around since the '9s. And that's the one that's tied directly into Medicare. >> Okay. But see, they all have it written in

680
03:44:10.960 --> 03:44:27.040
that we just have to >> Yeah. I don't understand why they would have these limits with a cap or a deductible and then have language that says well disregard that. >> It's the same as any other insurance.

681
03:44:27.040 --> 03:44:45.040
>> It's so that we pay for stuff they don't have and they don't have to pay because all it's doing is limiting what they will reimburse us while telling us we have to let them do however many visits they want. So it makes the taxpayers responsible for the equipment up, you

682
03:44:45.040 --> 03:45:01.840
know, equipment we're maintaining all that anyway. But you look at a weight room, if I'm coming every every day working out, that's a that's a lot of work, wear and tear on equipment. >> So for walking, it's not a big thing,

683
03:45:01.840 --> 03:45:17.760
but for a weight room, it might be. You know, over time, >> the weight equipment is expensive to maintain. Exactly. So it it puts the taxpayers on the hook for um for maintenance cost to the facility because

684
03:45:17.760 --> 03:45:35.120
they have limited the amount that they will reimburse, >> which is why the I hate to say the word loophole, but that's what it is is to adjust what the definition of our basic membership is

685
03:45:35.120 --> 03:45:52.560
because all we're obligated via these contracts should council decide to maintain one or all of them is to provide access to the basic membership. >> So as you look at the basic membership option on your um on the

686
03:45:52.560 --> 03:46:08.800
>> attachment three. >> Yeah. Um, so is this how we would transition over if we I mean tell me how that lines up with the the health programs

687
03:46:08.800 --> 03:46:23.040
>> at this at this juncture. you could adopt this um structure as presented and you won't be how can I I think I went

688
03:46:23.040 --> 03:46:44.560
into greater detail in my notes. Give me one second to get back to that page. I am very spoiled by multiple screens and and let me ask you this if you don't mind while you're look while you're getting there. Um, Miss Molly,

689
03:46:44.560 --> 03:47:01.680
>> um, on a non-resident daily visit. Okay. Let's say I was one of the three programs that were contracted with >> and I come in and I use the C5 basic

690
03:47:01.680 --> 03:47:17.600
on the on the uh gym part. Okay, >> that's the only thing you have access if the under this that's the only thing that you would have access to is the weight room upstairs. But if I'm on the

691
03:47:17.600 --> 03:47:34.000
program >> for silver sneakers, let's say, >> um, and I come and use it, how is it going to work factor in with this? >> If you wanted to play pickle ball, >> you would have to pay. If you wanted to

692
03:47:34.000 --> 03:47:50.160
use anything in the gymnasium, you would have to pay. >> Okay. What if I had the um premium package, the C5 premium, and I'm a daily person, non-resident, and I

693
03:47:50.160 --> 03:48:05.600
come in to the C5 and I'm going to use the gym in the court >> and I and I do it for 10 days. >> What happens on day 11? Oh, if you're using silver sneakers and you want to

694
03:48:05.600 --> 03:48:23.920
use you want all access to the Yeah. The >> What is silver sneakers give them access to? Is that what you're asking? >> Well, I'm trying to determine how these are layered together if I'm in silver sneakers because I understand how you've broken these out, but we don't have them

695
03:48:23.920 --> 03:48:41.120
broken out defined separately. So, they would fall in under these the fee schedule packages that you put together. if I'm understanding this correctly. >> Well, they would only if you came in as a non-resident and you wanted to use both areas of the facility, you're more

696
03:48:41.120 --> 03:48:56.479
than welcome to go upstairs and utilize the walking track and the weight room. But if you want to go play pickle ball, volleyball, or basketball and do something in the gym, you will have to pay a fee for that because and that's where the um

697
03:48:56.479 --> 03:49:10.720
as you see at the very top lefthand corner, it says C5 Court Pass. You could go up and work out in the gym, but if you wanted to go and play pickle ball or anything like that, you have to pay that $3 fee for the court pass.

698
03:49:10.720 --> 03:49:27.040
>> Okay. So, for our programs that are health service based, and I'm sorry, Molly, I'm I'm not trying to drive you crazy. >> It's very I want to make sure I understand this. If I'm part of one of those healthc care

699
03:49:27.040 --> 03:49:43.199
things that silver sneakers or one of those, what does my silver sneaker stuff give me access to? >> Under this fee structure, it would only give you access to the wait room upstairs and the walking track. >> That's that's the answer I was trying to

700
03:49:43.199 --> 03:50:00.720
get to. >> What were they? The walking track. them. >> So, Silver Sneakers would give them or the health other providers >> would give them the walking track or the wait room upstairs. But if I want to go play pickle ball, I'm going to have a

701
03:50:00.720 --> 03:50:16.239
court fee. >> But if we were using the same the C5 court pass, basically Silver Sneakers will not give you everything the C5 court Pass, >> correct? >> Would have nor would it give you >> What about C5 basic gym? Is that what

702
03:50:16.239 --> 03:50:31.439
that >> the basic by defining a basic membership package >> which only provides you access to the workout room upstairs? >> Mhm. >> Not the court, just the gym. >> Yeah. However, it's defined

703
03:50:31.439 --> 03:50:48.239
in the second column. C5 basic gym. Let me use my Would silver sneakers be the equivalent or allow what a normal? >> You could only use the weight room upstairs. >> And if somebody who did not have silver

704
03:50:48.239 --> 03:51:04.479
sneakers and they had the C5 basic gym, could they use more than the weight room? >> No. >> Okay. >> Because that's our basic membership package only includes the fitness center upstairs. So they would literally have to buy the passes or the package that will

705
03:51:04.479 --> 03:51:21.199
cover the additional services >> that they wanted to use >> that they want to use and none of our agreements tie us into just letting them use whatever they want. >> Correct. >> So we can restrict it to the gym or the

706
03:51:21.199 --> 03:51:37.600
walking track and the >> weight room. >> Right. >> And then charge for the additional services. Yes. >> Okay. >> So that way and and you'll notice that I reduced some fees on on some of that to make it affordable for people. But one

707
03:51:37.600 --> 03:51:54.399
of the things that I'm trying to prevent and um I'll be very candid in how I say this is how is one of the things that um we're finding is that um when people go on cruises they are overwhelming the

708
03:51:54.399 --> 03:52:10.399
pickle ball courts that are now on boats. And so we will have people that will come right off the boat and come with their silver sneakers which will allow them to come play pickle ball, come use the facility completely for free because we are not able to restrict that

709
03:52:10.399 --> 03:52:25.359
and then they hop on the boat and they never come back. >> Now you were just saying that with these programs that we could restrict them from the courts. >> Mhm. >> But you're saying we can't just then >> right now.

710
03:52:25.359 --> 03:52:41.920
>> Oh, okay. That's that was the point of restructuring was to eliminate that. And the other the other part of this restructuring is that discounts for seniors, first responders, and veterans.

711
03:52:41.920 --> 03:52:59.040
And obviously those those people wouldn't um be able to get a resident discount. Those discounts wouldn't apply. They would just pay a flat non-resident fee because they're not from here. >> Yes. Okay, city attorney, did you have a

712
03:52:59.040 --> 03:53:16.479
question or I >> I've spoke with Molly a few times about this. The city council and the city that we have the discretion to establish the basic membership. So once council establishes the basic membership, these

713
03:53:16.479 --> 03:53:32.479
programs get unlimited access with a monetary cap for the basic membership, not defined by them, but defined by the city. So what Molly's trying to do is set up a rate schedule that defines the

714
03:53:32.479 --> 03:53:50.000
lowest tier basic membership, and that's what these participants and these programs will get. Now everything else is a different enhancement. >> So it's not part of the basic membership. And that's how

715
03:53:50.000 --> 03:54:07.120
>> that's how you avoid allowing these participating members to have unlimited access to every single aspect of the facility every single day the facility is open. Right. >> Correct. >> Yes. And it's also makes it affordable

716
03:54:07.120 --> 03:54:24.800
for people that still want to come and use it and still get the wellness benefits of the the indoor walking track to get out of the heat or the random 25 degree cold. Um but it's still it's not exorbitant,

717
03:54:24.800 --> 03:54:42.640
>> right? Um and on the resident costs, how did we choose those uh dollar amounts for them based on research over multiple years,

718
03:54:42.640 --> 03:54:59.040
multiple facilities, multiple places and local market? >> Okay. Because I mean >> on the facility rentals >> on the general facility >> use. Okay. >> Yeah. Just because so the general facility uses what I was talking about

719
03:54:59.040 --> 03:55:14.479
for residents >> because I would like I mean I see you know we have the $2 discount form on daily on a court pass for example monthly their court pass would be 42. There's about a

720
03:55:14.479 --> 03:55:32.479
>> there's an advantage to buying in bulk, >> right? >> Not only with this um and and the other the the package that we currently use now gives you kind of a a small break on

721
03:55:32.479 --> 03:55:48.880
monthly and annual memberships. But as it stands now, literally every single person that walks through that door gets a discount with the exception of the non-resident adults. And that's that's not really working for us,

722
03:55:48.880 --> 03:56:07.199
>> right? >> Um, and then my last question, I've actually understand where you went with this, so but I have these questions. I'm sorry I'm driving you nuts. Oh, >> you're okay. Um, so how do we compare on

723
03:56:07.199 --> 03:56:26.080
pricing for the services? We've got apples to oranges. Okay. Um, on current fees and date past users, the revenue, proposed fees, the estimated revenue, the differences, um, and is in

724
03:56:26.080 --> 03:56:43.840
the apples to oranges. Um, what are we what are we comparing? Are we comparing years >> that with the apples to oranges? Because we're changing the total structure of what we're looking at. It's hard to give

725
03:56:43.840 --> 03:56:58.880
you an apples to apples because we're changing the whole structure of what we're looking at. >> Okay. And do we have do we have things that we could draw upon to make comparisons? for example,

726
03:56:58.880 --> 03:57:15.680
a gym that has weight a walking track or um other pickle ball courts to see if we're lined up with, you know, competitively. We are they are all over the board between private and public.

727
03:57:15.680 --> 03:57:31.600
>> They are all over the board. Okay, that was >> and and there's actually um another municipality municipality that was brought to my attention by Marcy who is our facility manager for the Nancy Hansen and that is uh I believe in West

728
03:57:31.600 --> 03:57:51.600
West Melbourne or Melbourne Beach, one of the two, the Ugi Civic Center. >> They were so low. I'm not sure how they're keeping their lights on. >> Got it. Okay. All right. That's the end of my questions for now.

729
03:57:51.600 --> 03:58:08.800
>> And I also have Joey here to to assist because I'm I'm not a numbers person. I'm a research person. So, and >> Joey had to assist with >> with tabulating for me >> because it wasn't I can compare apples to apples all day, but when I start

730
03:58:08.800 --> 03:58:28.880
restructuring things because you're getting different amenities >> for what compared to what we have now. And one of the um many debates that kind of came out of the multiple discussions

731
03:58:28.880 --> 03:58:45.520
of our board is you can argue the pros and cons of an indoor facility versus an outdoor facility. And some people like me, you're not going to catch me outside in the sun, especially

732
03:58:45.520 --> 03:59:02.120
in the summertime. But some people love that and they get cold in the AC. So for every plus you have for indoor play, somebody else has a different plus for outdoor play. So,

733
03:59:10.560 --> 03:59:26.479
>> it's quite a matrix >> when you draw it out and you you got C5 core, Nancy Hansen rack court, dual court, basic C5, premium C5, all access and >> you know, >> yeah, I I feel like the guy in Sunny in

734
03:59:26.479 --> 03:59:41.920
Philadelphia with the strings on the on the board. >> Well, will our systems that we have in place for keeping track of Will our systems we have in place for keeping track of visits and that sort of thing is is is it going to like burst into

735
03:59:41.920 --> 03:59:59.359
flames when we try to do this? >> No. and and before we even took this to our um board from this standpoint, we did have a meeting with our reces folks and discuss what it looks like for a total overhaul. So, that was part of the

736
03:59:59.359 --> 04:00:13.760
reason we wanted to bring this to you early in the session as we're, you know, trying to implement. And that's actually one of the things that I discussed a little bit in that agenda summary was that there's some of these things that we can implement tomorrow if you want or

737
04:00:13.760 --> 04:00:30.319
upon adoption of the actual fee structure because we're not making decisions today. This is justformational because there is so much to talk through. >> Um but it's something that could be implemented in phases and it will actually clean it up a lot.

738
04:00:30.319 --> 04:00:47.120
Um, once upon a time, if you looked at that screen over at at Nancy Hansen, for example, they literally rang in a different button for every sport, for every category of

739
04:00:47.120 --> 04:01:04.560
member or user. And it looked like the POS system at a McDonald's. It was so much margin for error. So, this will actually clean it up dramatically because your monthly and your annual passholders will just be able to swipe their card.

740
04:01:04.560 --> 04:01:23.840
Whereas the daily folks, now it breaks it down. You're either a resident or you're a non-resident and that's the end of it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> So, I mean, we're in a workshop. There's a resolution. Ultimately, we were not

741
04:01:23.840 --> 04:01:40.960
adopting that today, but at a future meeting, the goal was to >> work through this outside of a regular meeting so that we can go in and potent consider adopting a resolution that would establish these new fees, right? >> Yep. >> Is that And so is it um

742
04:01:40.960 --> 04:01:56.319
>> I believe um I believe Amanda and Esther have it on the agenda for >> next week, >> for next week. If I may, mayor, this is a complex issue and um >> we can it's on the agenda for adoption. Like you said, it doesn't have to be. We

743
04:01:56.319 --> 04:02:12.160
can continue to discuss it and then, you know, we have the budget cycle that we're entering into if council chooses to view this fee scale in relation to our budget discussions. We can bring it back at a later time, but you do have an opportunity to speak about it again on

744
04:02:12.160 --> 04:02:28.560
Tuesday as you do the paid parking. um we had to put those items on the agenda now because of the deadline agenda deadline um that we have for the council meeting, but when we get to those two items, you can do whatever it is you you want to do.

745
04:02:28.560 --> 04:02:43.840
>> That's helpful. Thank you. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. >> Yes. >> Um Molly, >> yes. >> All three of these contracts, when are they up for renewal and when can they be negotiated?

746
04:02:43.840 --> 04:03:00.720
Let me pull that one up. That one was provided in the snapshot a while back >> as I look at this Tivity contract. >> That one is up in 2027. >> Okay, >> that one's longer. The other ones and

747
04:03:00.720 --> 04:03:18.640
and we do need to give them a heads up. Um the other ones we will need if should you want to make any changes and there's not much negotiation apart from the dollar amount for the per visit which all of them are actually fairly close to

748
04:03:18.640 --> 04:03:35.439
what is being presented. Well, I'm more interested in negotiating the conditions because even on the >> there is no negotiating conditions. >> Even on the Tivity, their definition of program

749
04:03:35.439 --> 04:03:52.000
doesn't refer to our facility. >> That's what I was cur Thank you for finding that. It's like >> it does not it it mentions program and program is activity not the facility. So my thought process is that minimum

750
04:03:52.000 --> 04:04:08.880
amount we're getting per visit per month just stops. >> It's not an unlimited. the way I read the Tivity contract. >> Check it. Dana

751
04:04:08.880 --> 04:04:29.279
>> now maybe I glossed over if it's some open-ended visits. Sorry, I'm >> Well, I think your intent I mean we're not attorneys, but the intent would be the the limit that says after n eight

752
04:04:29.279 --> 04:04:47.520
visits is doing the math it or nine whatever that is is that's the those are the conditions we will honor >> and then the other statement is not applicable if if that interpretation is correct. >> Yeah. Um, I think that's a good question

753
04:04:47.520 --> 04:05:03.840
is I think is it our intent as a council to allow unlimited visits >> and I I don't think it is. >> Well, based on the Tivity contract, it doesn't sound like that is a requirement of the contract >> and I think the city attorney can a can

754
04:05:03.840 --> 04:05:20.239
affirm. I would I I don't I can't imagine that there why would there be conflicting and yeah, the definition of program I think answers the question. Yes, council member. I'm pretty sure they they advertise to their members that they get the unlimited visits. I don't know that whe I guess I think our options with them would be either we

755
04:05:20.239 --> 04:05:36.080
don't take the program or we give them the unlimited thing is where the way I I used to had that from my health insurance a few years ago from Tivvity. They have one for people under 65 and I paid like 30 bucks a month and you could go a bunch of different places. I don't know what they got paid but it was

756
04:05:36.080 --> 04:05:51.040
unlimited. You go as many times as you wanted. And I guess my other question is can we split this into two different things? We have the new fee schedule which we may want to make part of the budget process, but I think our biggest opportunity for more revenue is to tell the silver sneakers and the other

757
04:05:51.040 --> 04:06:06.720
programs that they only get access to the gym and the walking track. If they want to play pickle ball, then they pony up the three bucks. That I think I'd like to see that happen as soon as possible and see how much we can generate from that. >> That's already that way >> because they get the basic.

758
04:06:06.720 --> 04:06:22.479
>> That's the way she just >> is that is that the numbers are figured that way? >> Yes. that the that the Silver Sneakers people don't have pickle ball in here and these numbers. >> You can change if you want to adopt the structure, you can do that at the the

759
04:06:22.479 --> 04:06:38.000
meeting next week. >> But with what you provided us, >> Silver Sneakers and the other healthc care or providers of that type of service, >> you said that they get base the gym.

760
04:06:38.000 --> 04:06:55.120
>> Mhm. And they get the with the walking track and then the wait room. >> The just the wait room and the walking track. >> The weight room and the walking track. >> But they currently get pickle ball as part of their silver. >> They currently get access to the courts. >> Courts. They currently have everything. >> They have to pay with what she's done.

761
04:06:55.120 --> 04:07:11.359
They'll have to pay for court pass. >> So what you're saying needs to be done has been done in this revision. >> The C5 basic as Molly or city attorney and shared

762
04:07:11.359 --> 04:07:27.840
would be essentially what the silver sneakers allows today. No courts, no pickle ball and then it would not if a resident or if they wanted to have access to the courts, they would have to

763
04:07:27.840 --> 04:07:44.640
add on they would have to purchase the premium >> a court pass. >> Yes. Yes, the C5 premium which includes the gym, the basic plus the court. >> Well, their basic would be paid for.

764
04:07:44.640 --> 04:08:00.800
>> They already have the basic included. We just wanted to pay >> for through silver sneakers, >> right? >> The court pass. If they wanted to play pickle ball, they could add the court pass on their own. >> But if Yeah. Well, they would have to make that decision how the math works out because it's be if they're getting

765
04:08:00.800 --> 04:08:18.960
basically the value of $3 off of their silver sneakers. Well, that's the same on one of them and then they would basically pay another $3. I'm just working on the daily here. Okay. Well, for >> Yeah. So, basically, we're defining what

766
04:08:18.960 --> 04:08:34.479
these contracts are going to cover by saying the basic. >> Yes. And I I want the council to know I've just uh received a card from a resident. Um I think it'd be important. Do y'all want to stop here and hear what the the

767
04:08:34.479 --> 04:08:51.120
resident it is related to this item? >> Please leave the last name Burgger. Jody Burgger. Is that Did I say that correctly? >> Hello. Thank you. If you don't mind, say your name and address, please.

768
04:08:51.120 --> 04:09:08.000
>> My name is Julie Ber. live on Harrison Avenue and Cape Canaveral. Um my question isn't it's really more to you about the way you're structuring. Um which personally I think is great. >> Um because I think they need it.

769
04:09:08.000 --> 04:09:23.840
>> My question is as someone who just went on Medicare this month, thank you very much for screwing me up. Um I'm just kidding. Um, I think most gyms only have gym access and maybe the

770
04:09:23.840 --> 04:09:39.359
walking court. That's my impression from what I've heard from other people who have Silver Sneakers or those kind of insurance programs. So, um I think the only people you're going to piss off are going to be maybe the people who have been using your courts under Silver

771
04:09:39.359 --> 04:09:54.880
Sneakers and that they would have your um but they could certainly drive to another facility that does that. Um, my question to you would be, is there a way in this that you've already created,

772
04:09:54.880 --> 04:10:11.600
could you add, if someone had silver sneakers and they wanted to add the courts or they wanted to add the all access that that would be a line item as well. So, that would be very clear. Like, let's say, oh, I want to go play

773
04:10:11.600 --> 04:10:28.239
pickle ball. I want to add that to my silver sneakers. Do I get a discount for that or am I having to pay the full price of somebody who's paying for the gym and the court already or the all access already? So, because I think you

774
04:10:28.239 --> 04:10:44.160
could I don't know maybe capitalize on that and maybe calm some of that >> from that. Um, other than that, that's all we >> So, that was one of the considerations. And one of the things that, um, has come

775
04:10:44.160 --> 04:10:59.359
up and and this was discussed with the city attorney because he had a very similar question is I'm not allowed to charge them differently. So, when it comes to folks with silver sneakers, they would just need to either

776
04:10:59.359 --> 04:11:14.560
pay for the court pass or there's an option for a monthly or an annual dual court pass which would allow them access to both facilities. >> Okay? >> And just that that's only for the courts. They don't have they would not have to pay anything additional to

777
04:11:14.560 --> 04:11:30.720
>> So, that's their it's basically what I just asked. It's just that's their add-on. It's just called something different than what I asked. >> Yep. >> Yeah. It's like an Yeah. >> Yeah. So that that way we don't get in trouble with the insurance providers for because the one of the questions that

778
04:11:30.720 --> 04:11:46.399
also came up was well can we just charge them the difference between what we normally charge people for access to the facility compared to what you know we're being compensated for. And all three companies that was a hard no. >> Yeah. Yeah. I figured that would be no.

779
04:11:46.399 --> 04:12:02.800
So this this way if council wants to entertain and keep all of them or some of them, we still have a balanced and an affordable way for people to stay healthy, stay active, and stay social. >> Okay, that's all I had. Thank you.

780
04:12:02.800 --> 04:12:22.560
>> Thank you. That's a great question. Mhm. >> This probably been said and do we have an indication of how many silver sneakers members rough estimate that we have and how to Miss Burgger's point. >> It changes by the day >> but the last data that um I provided

781
04:12:22.560 --> 04:12:52.880
this council with is the snapshot workshop summary. Which one is that >> right here? This is activity activity on program. Did you see

782
04:12:52.880 --> 04:13:13.680
>> under the definition? >> We have approximately 200. Let me just pull it up for rectus and give you today's today's data >> programs are >> so for Ash Fitness we have 122 members

783
04:13:13.680 --> 04:13:28.720
today >> 122 >> 122 for Ash Fitness >> okay >> for silver sneakers we are up to 299 and for AHS which is also called

784
04:13:28.720 --> 04:13:43.680
optimum >> sorry wait ahs AHS is Ash Fitness. I don't know why they all have to have different names. Um, Renew Active, which is the OPTIM, has 175. And I did provide numbers in terms of

785
04:13:43.680 --> 04:14:00.080
percentages of how many um how many of those are residents versus non-residents. Obviously, that does not account for the folks coming into town that are using it as a day pass feature. Those are just the ones that are formally registered with the facility.

786
04:14:00.080 --> 04:14:18.319
596. I got 122, 299, and 175. >> Yep. That's today. >> Ash 122. >> Yep. >> Cuz one of the documents I provided for the workshop actually broke it down into how many percent what percentage of those uh members were residents and what

787
04:14:18.319 --> 04:14:34.239
percentage of those members were seniors. When it comes to silver sneakers, unless you qualify um on a disability status for um Medicare, you you have to be a senior in order to be eligible for it. For those other two, you don't necessarily have to be a

788
04:14:34.239 --> 04:14:50.080
senior for it, but the overwhelming majority are seniors, which um our city has traditionally defined senior as 62. Well, like council member Shoryak said, he was not a at the qualifying age, but

789
04:14:50.080 --> 04:15:05.279
you were still able to sign up under it. >> Yeah, activity has one for non seniors. It's called it was fitness your way or something. It's the same thing, but under 65 or non-medicare, whatever. >> So, the all of these the way we

790
04:15:05.279 --> 04:15:21.359
understand the the wording of their contracts would essentially be the equivalent to the proposed basic. >> Yep. To Miss Burgger's point, if they are utilizing the courts, we have a

791
04:15:21.359 --> 04:15:37.279
mechanism to say that whenever I guess the timing that is no longer accepted under that and in order to add on the courts, you can >> you can you can do that >> and they would but they would be it

792
04:15:37.279 --> 04:15:53.520
would be advantageous the way it's priced that they would keep their silver sneakers. >> Mhm. >> Okay. and and pay that that one alocart kind of fee and collectively they basically have a premium or a duel, you know.

793
04:15:53.520 --> 04:16:09.040
>> Yeah. And they would actually get they they could either pay by the day they visit or they could get kind of a reduced rate that would allow them to come as much as they want uh for monthly or annual. >> Um and then to Mr. TRIK's point. Um, one

794
04:16:09.040 --> 04:16:24.560
of the things and this date is contingent on this passing relatively soon. Um, changes that can be made by or before August 1st if adopted. Um, all of the new revenue streams, which are the new things that we're offering, which is

795
04:16:24.560 --> 04:16:40.479
mostly the um facility rental stuff. Mhm. >> Um, see, updated fee schedules for general facility use, updated fee schedules for facility rentals, and then, um, we would need to notify our thirdparty insurance programs of the

796
04:16:40.479 --> 04:16:55.760
changes to our definition of the basic membership package. Now, there are changes that would have to be implemented in phases, and that is the current monthly and annual memberships would be a gradual conversion. When a person's membership expires, they will be prompted to enroll

797
04:16:55.760 --> 04:17:11.439
in the new membership type that best meets their needs or become a daily drop in fee user. Um, any of us that have ever had subscriptions to things, it's the same thing when your thing sunsets as they often call it, you just have to sign up for, you know, whatever their

798
04:17:11.439 --> 04:17:28.960
new package is. Um the other thing that could be imple that would be implemented in phases is um should the council decide to withdraw from the third-party insurance um providers or let these agreements expire without renewal. Participants in

799
04:17:28.960 --> 04:17:42.800
those programs would need to sign up for the new membership type that best meets their needs or become a daily drop in user. And it would be most fair to those users to provide them with as much notice as possible before that happens.

800
04:17:42.800 --> 04:18:04.159
That's great. Thank you. >> I got I got one. Okay. >> Thank you. Yes, sir. >> We're good. We're not taking any action. Do we have another comment card right here? >> Okay. Council, we have another card.

801
04:18:04.159 --> 04:18:29.520
We'll go ahead and hear it. Mr. Sllayton, please come forward. You want to state your name and address, please, Mr. Sllayton? >> My name is Steven Sllayton. I live at 555 Filillmore Avenue, obviously Cape Canaveral. Um, I just want to give you

802
04:18:29.520 --> 04:18:44.960
some some information. I'm kind of crazy about working out. I belong to five gyms. Every one of them accepts silver sneakers. I've never spent a dime to go to any of these gyms. No matter how many

803
04:18:44.960 --> 04:19:01.600
times I go, if I'm if I'm reading this right, I still I think I can come to the C5 and not pay anything and I can go as many times as I want. >> As long as you're only upstairs.

804
04:19:01.600 --> 04:19:16.960
>> Yeah, I'm only upstairs. I agree with the downstairs. >> Mhm. can't stand that pickle ball. But anyway, >> it it does kind of echo for the folks in the weight room. Yeah. >> Um, now the other gyms that I belong to, none of them have even a walking track.

805
04:19:16.960 --> 04:19:32.960
So, you're I think we're still getting a great benefit out of it. Uh the only one that that is sort of comparable um when you go to Planet Fitness, they have another room where you can

806
04:19:32.960 --> 04:19:48.080
>> tan >> like I don't know. I don't know what they do. I never went. You can get a tan if you want. I know that. And there's some crazy things in there with water underneath. I don't know. But that's included if you pay extra.

807
04:19:48.080 --> 04:20:03.600
So >> I think that's called their black card plat. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Thank you. That's all I had. >> Thank you. >> And he I can confirm he is there every single time I go

808
04:20:03.600 --> 04:20:26.800
>> in the morning. >> That's awesome. >> You're a good role model for myself. Thank you. Okay. So, I think we we we're starting to get there and under at least understand it.

809
04:20:26.800 --> 04:20:47.040
Um, council, is there any >> that was arguably the most complex part of it? The facility rentals are pretty cut and dry. >> Yeah. on the facility rentals. Yes, sir. >> The cleaning fee 50% of what?

810
04:20:47.040 --> 04:21:04.159
>> 50% of their total cost. it for in the mind of both myself and a lot of our board members um when it comes to some of the lower cost rentals like the ones that are like $25 for for an hour or so it I I wouldn't want to charge

811
04:21:04.159 --> 04:21:19.920
somebodyund or a large cleaning fee for something that's so small especially when we're talking um and looking forward um we are we there's been a the IP that's been

812
04:21:19.920 --> 04:21:36.960
presented that will include um uh some extra picnic shelters for in front of the splash pad. I wouldn't want to outpric a family that wants to have a birthday party and reserve something like that for literally just a a shaded

813
04:21:36.960 --> 04:21:52.560
picnic area. So, uh 50% of whatever they're using um was determined to be more fair. So like on the last page on the the the fees we just add it up. So like manate

814
04:21:52.560 --> 04:22:10.080
sanctuary park pavilion is 200 $250. There would also be a $50 cleaning fee. So total out of pocket would be $300. Well >> it'd be there's a $150 deposit. So $450 is the out of pocket.

815
04:22:10.080 --> 04:22:33.600
>> Out of pocket >> with the refund if everything's okay. you get your 150 back. >> Yeah. And it's been very rare that we've ever had to >> take from that. Just in my experience with the city. >> Okay. And uh council, so we we've got

816
04:22:33.600 --> 04:22:48.479
the general facility use table, which we spent the most time. I'm assuming there are increases on all of the facility rentals. um the addition of the cleaning fee. >> The cleaning fee is okay. >> And and that came about not only as um

817
04:22:48.479 --> 04:23:04.560
some as part of feedback from our board but also industry standard. I just started looking at other places and it was like okay our prices are fairly in line but these guys are adding cleaning fees just to delineate the fact that it does cost time to reset. >> Yeah.

818
04:23:04.560 --> 04:23:22.319
>> Even if they do leave it, you know, as they found it, there's still cleaning that has to be done between rentals. Yeah. >> And just sanitizing, you know, general >> Molly the on page three of three of the proposal.

819
04:23:22.319 --> 04:23:37.279
>> It's financial impact. It'll generate approximately 108,772 annually. Is that in addition to what we already have or is that going to be the total revenue? >> I will let Joey speak to that one because he's the one that had to help me come up with that part. >> Are you referring to page three of the

820
04:23:37.279 --> 04:23:59.840
summary? the this part the couple. Yeah. Page three. There you're right there. >> Uh that part is the total revenue. So that is not the um additional revenue that is just the total revenue. And we can provide some uh projections

821
04:23:59.840 --> 04:24:16.080
of what the difference between the current prices and with the projections Molly has provided the new prices. I guess my question is on the schedule that we got at the last joint meeting that we had, it showed revenue for C5 of

822
04:24:16.080 --> 04:24:32.319
120,000 and 46,000 for Nancy Hansen. So that's 166,000 and we're only going to get 108,000 now. So we're losing. >> It's not that we're losing. We are we are going with conservative numbers which previous administrations did not

823
04:24:32.319 --> 04:24:51.760
go with conservative numbers. So we actually have the potential especially since we're reducing some of the impacts on the individuals that are using this that that number will be much higher. It just looks to me like we're losing

824
04:24:51.760 --> 04:25:08.399
what is this? Uh 50 grand in revenue. >> But it's off. You're saying from the actuals? >> From the actuals from the actual for FY25. That's not Yeah. >> Yeah. So I think >> I show 120 140 for

825
04:25:08.399 --> 04:25:24.479
>> C5. >> Mhm. And then 46,150 for Nancy Hansen. 60% but >> 166,290 >> and then our new revenue is going to be 108

826
04:25:24.479 --> 04:25:47.359
>> 772 57,518. We're down. >> Am I making sense? Is that >> Where's the revenue for C5? >> I It's not there. It's on the schedule that we got >> at our joint meeting a few months back. Oh, okay.

827
04:25:47.359 --> 04:26:04.000
>> So, you want to do you know what the difference between that that revenue schedule and these revenue schedules? >> Right. >> Oh, I see. I couldn't see the headers. >> Yeah, that's community center. That's Nancy Hansen. >> Mhm. >> That's >> 259,000 or no

828
04:26:04.000 --> 04:26:18.399
revenue. >> The 259 is the loss loss >> and then 46 of Nancy. >> Okay, I see. Let us pull this up. So, let us pull up this one so that we can see which one

829
04:26:18.399 --> 04:26:42.159
you're referring to because we're only looking at the um the membership and daily usage 59 March. This was that schedule that was handed out at the workshop a few months ago.

830
04:26:42.159 --> 04:27:00.479
>> That that includes programs and everything else. >> That's that's not just that's not just the people that are coming in for daily use. That includes programs and everything else. >> Okay. So,

831
04:27:00.479 --> 04:27:16.960
what else is in this is not just memberships. I guess these are not those items. We are we apples to apples or apples to apples? >> We are not apples to apples because this includes like summer camp registrations and other things that are generated by that facility more than just people

832
04:27:16.960 --> 04:27:31.920
walking in and using the gym or playing. >> Can we get an equivalent of what that would be? Cuz then then we're going to be apples to apples. Right now we're apples to bowling balls. But >> we have equivalent for this >> of what these would be. not not these here, but at least we have the

833
04:27:31.920 --> 04:27:48.000
equivalence for the daily fees and the monthly memberships. Um, we currently do not have the the apples to apples for the total revenues here, >> but at least right now we have the apples to apples for these numbers these

834
04:27:48.000 --> 04:28:04.319
days. >> I got a bowling ball and an apple. >> Mhm. >> Oh, well, I can explain where where those numbers come from. >> Um Oh, no. I get that. I get all that, but I'm I'm comparing these numbers to that one, but I wonder what's >> Molly. Is there a reference that can be

835
04:28:04.319 --> 04:28:20.720
shared with the public that you're looking at from a previous meeting we can send to the clerk or send to the public? >> Oh. >> Yeah, I will I will email this to you, >> Council Member Shereak in full workshop mode here. >> Yeah. And that's that's great because

836
04:28:20.720 --> 04:28:35.920
that's absolutely great. We just want to be able to provide the public with the same >> Oh, >> yep. Yes, this this this was one of the attachments from the >> it's attachment number seven

837
04:28:35.920 --> 04:28:53.359
>> from the um February 3rd >> now. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Great. >> You can come back to the floor, >> council member. That was awesome down there. >> If you need to. >> No, I think I'm okay. I just want I want

838
04:28:53.359 --> 04:29:09.760
apples to apples is what we're looking for. And I don't I think we have apples to bowling balls but with the two number I just want to know what's in the 160s something that we had in actuals. How much of that are the program things that aren't included in our our revised fee schedule?

839
04:29:09.760 --> 04:29:25.199
>> So that one I can break down the program fees. It'll just take me a little bit because I'll have to separate it by building. We don't separate things by buildings because a lot of things go back and forth between buildings and different facilities. But the program

840
04:29:25.199 --> 04:29:41.439
revenues that we have um were provided um as part of your request and those are for the whole department and that is to date um to include

841
04:29:41.439 --> 04:30:00.239
um camp registration which depending upon the year can come then can come in at almost $20,000. Um the camps are largely associated with the C5 um at least currently. Um daily fees and memberships

842
04:30:00.239 --> 04:30:16.800
like for example to date the daily fees and memberships from the C5 are 61,000. Um the Nancy Hansen daily fees and memberships to date are 24,000. And if you look at um one of the other

843
04:30:16.800 --> 04:30:34.239
documents that uh Joey was able to assemble for me um let's see recreation daily fees and memberships to oh that was 2024. Yeah, we would have to provide that data

844
04:30:34.239 --> 04:30:57.439
for you for 2025 because those include everything that that building generates, not just the people walking through the door to utilize the facilities to include retail sales. >> Well, as our city manager said, you know, we can we got it on the it's

845
04:30:57.439 --> 04:31:14.080
scheduled to be on the agenda. >> That's correct. this if we're not ready. We I think we can use that time to to maybe >> but I guess what I'd like to do is can we that's why a little earlier I asked can we break this into two separate things. Looks like we still have a little bit more work to do here but on

846
04:31:14.080 --> 04:31:29.920
our next meeting can we just vote to say hey if you're silver sneakers you have to pay for your pickle ball. That's an easy one. And I think we can probably do that pretty quickly without having to revise the fee schedule and at least pick up some additional revenue between now and the end of the year.

847
04:31:29.920 --> 04:31:45.439
>> We would need to provide an effective date and notify those people. >> Let's let's get going because that's been four months since we talked about it in February. So >> I think uh >> except for that there's no such thing as a court pass right now. Am I correct, Molly?

848
04:31:45.439 --> 04:32:02.479
>> Correct. So, part of the fee schedule does have to be approved to be able to bill for that. >> Okay. >> Oh, I think I know how to explain this a little better. The the apples to oranges page that you have, one of the things that I can do for

849
04:32:02.479 --> 04:32:17.840
that, that will give you apples to apples. If you look at the the 24 25 daily pass users and the next page offers the per building um

850
04:32:17.840 --> 04:32:36.279
revenue for monthly members. That's where those numbers would come from. That's the that's the those are the apples that you're looking for. >> Oh, sure. On that they add up to the 108,000, right? >> I don't know. >> That's on page three. Is that

851
04:32:36.960 --> 04:32:53.680
Um yes, the that's the projection >> for that's just comparing fiscal year 25's uh daily memberships for Nancy Hansen and C5 and the uh monthly memberships. Those are the

852
04:32:53.680 --> 04:33:10.320
appletoapple comparisons we currently have. Um, but I believe what you're asking for is in addition the the program revenues and the the 120,000 revenue you were talking about. >> Yeah, I'd like to get those the 120 and then the what the 46. I'd like to see what those numbers would be with this

853
04:33:10.320 --> 04:33:39.520
revised fee schedule and I think that will allow us to make an applesto apples comparison. So just in daily use for fiscal year 2425 using the numbers from the third

854
04:33:39.520 --> 04:33:57.359
category. So that's just those are actuals that were from last fiscal year that total was $94,415. I'm sorry. Can you repeat that? >> $94,415. So the 108,000

855
04:33:57.359 --> 04:34:12.240
even if that is the low number is better than >> Okay. So that that's all I wanted to know. What was what was that equivalent revenue last year? So we without the special event things in that's on the schedule that's on the screen now. >> Yeah. Daily facility usage.

856
04:34:12.240 --> 04:34:29.439
>> Okay. And that's for C5 or is that Nancy Hansen as well? I guess is there special event stuff in Nancy Hansen too in her? >> Well, Nancy Hansen runs the um Friday Fest >> and it also has its own leagues. Esther, >> can you scroll to the totals at the

857
04:34:29.439 --> 04:34:53.520
bottom? Okay. So, the 12140 the equivalent it would be 94415 or >> for Nancy Hansen and C5 daily use. >> Okay. to include monthly and memberships.

858
04:34:53.520 --> 04:35:22.561
Your your regular general usage of that facility pest control. So, what that tells me is we had about 72,000 in other revenue other than memberships >> roughly. I'd have to verify that and work with Joey on that. >> Okay.

859
04:35:22.561 --> 04:35:42.719
>> To separate it by building. >> Okay. Thank you. >> But based on our calculations and the estimates that Joey came up with, it's on the very conservative side. It's a it's still an increase in revenues.

860
04:35:42.719 --> 04:35:58.959
the the fee schedule that we have in front of us. Um Molly came up with um a low projection and a high projection for some of the facilities that have a lot of variables to them. And our final projections that uh the third page

861
04:35:58.959 --> 04:36:16.799
number you're talking about the 108,000 that number is taking um in between the low projection and the high projection we went with 60%. So instead of right in the middle at 50%, we went 10% slightly higher since we think the the seniors

862
04:36:16.799 --> 04:36:32.879
who are going to play pickle ball that demand's going to be a little more inelastic. So we think it'll be higher than just half in the middle. Um so that's where that 108,000 financial impact number came from. And that

863
04:36:32.879 --> 04:36:49.439
108,000 compared to the fiscal year 25, the previous number we have is um including the additional rental revenues at the bottom of of the fee schedule we're looking at is going to be about

864
04:36:49.439 --> 04:37:04.959
13.5,000 more dollars per year. So that's the apples to apples just daily fees and monthly memberships and additional rental revenues >> is that comparison

865
04:37:04.959 --> 04:37:19.600
an additional 13,000 >> that's what I was looking for thank you >> so our ability to understand and get comfortable in the numbers which we're doing we're working towards that I think is ultimately going to give us the

866
04:37:19.600 --> 04:37:35.920
confidence to say let's go then allow city staff plenty of time and notice to notify the folks about whatever decision is made >> and update our software >> and internally do the software updates and probably three or four other

867
04:37:35.920 --> 04:37:52.080
unknowns we're not thinking of like all things and surprises and probably some accounting changes potentially whatever that is um and then the just the community the citizen responses and managing that when we make changes it's one reading though right on the

868
04:37:52.080 --> 04:38:08.160
resolution I I know our city attorney is not here, but because it's parks and wreck, it's not a >> utility fee, we don't have to do an ordinance. >> Correct. >> So, one reading resolution. >> Um, all right. So, I think the benefits of trying to get it done next week uh is

869
04:38:08.160 --> 04:38:28.320
obvious. Um, and the I mean, as far as council decisions, right? I mean, the administration of it >> and we'd be able to to to hopefully realize and see those

870
04:38:28.320 --> 04:38:45.199
um reflected in the budget and positive impact. The last thing in the spirit of rentals and revenue and bowling balls and apples or whatever uh not to throw uh

871
04:38:45.199 --> 04:39:02.000
another one in here, but actually city attorney and we've all seen this is have we looked into advertising. I see that like you see partnerships with big organizations. Orlando help. I think it was city of Winter Springs

872
04:39:02.000 --> 04:39:17.840
put something on the center of their basketball court and you know just we got real estate. We got little leagues and so I would say let's get this put behind us and if there are I mean locals that have approached you or work for if

873
04:39:17.840 --> 04:39:35.600
willing is that a fe a fee schedule that we could maybe add on in the future to say here's what our >> advertising >> we can sell the naming rights and put the sign on the building >> you will be >> oh yeah we'll sell all that building side for enough >> you will be very happy to know that um

874
04:39:35.600 --> 04:39:52.160
week before last Anony's office um has sent us the draft um sponsorship policy. >> Awesome. >> Because we needed a policy before we could start, you know, doing things like that. Um >> because we have to be careful of who

875
04:39:52.160 --> 04:40:08.480
we're, you know, not all partnerships make sense >> in the long term. And I'm I don't need to provide examples, but there's there's a lot of examples out there in the news where people partnered with people that they probably shouldn't have for the purpose of their their sponsorships. So

876
04:40:08.480 --> 04:40:24.080
with that sponsorship policy, um I have uh requested a meeting with the city manager and our economic develop community and economic development director because obviously she is you know tied into our business community

877
04:40:24.080 --> 04:40:39.280
>> and um we'll be working on getting different sponsorships and what I requested from the city attorney was three different forms which we would be able to tier our different levels of opportunities for these businesses or even indiv individuals if that's you

878
04:40:39.280 --> 04:40:55.600
know uh foundations, trusts, whatever >> um to sponsor events, projects and um events, projects and programs. So we would be able to start generating revenue that will help offset costs to

879
04:40:55.600 --> 04:41:12.160
either reduce our overall when it comes to maintaining our facilities or reduce the costs that participants in programs would need to pay to um take advantage of those. >> So that's awesome. I think like you know

880
04:41:12.160 --> 04:41:29.600
I'm just using because it's tangible and a center of the basketball court tasteful. we have our brand, we can set our but if annually they put their sticker up and then every year and it was city attorney who was sharing how they're eager to

881
04:41:29.600 --> 04:41:46.080
>> to sponsor is the right word, not advertise. >> Banners along the side of fences, uh banners along the side of the walking track, just like any other um sports venue, big or small, the high schools do it, too. the local vet for all the dog

882
04:41:46.080 --> 04:42:01.600
bag stations, you know. >> Yes. Yes. If you'd like to adopt a dog bag station, please let me know because that is now a line item in our budget >> to sell the naming rights. It'll be the SpaceX arena or something. We >> collect a fee.

883
04:42:01.600 --> 04:42:17.200
>> Passive income. >> Yeah, these are >> passive income and positive promotion for our local businesses. So, it's a win-win. >> Awesome. >> You could do that with pocket meters. Just kidding. Yeah. Yeah. Every beach crossover.

884
04:42:17.200 --> 04:42:35.200
>> I thought we were going to open a bowling alley over there, too. I don't know. Heard that a couple times. >> M. >> Yes. Okay. Well, uh, I want to go back to our city manager. As far as

885
04:42:35.200 --> 04:42:50.480
the recommendation is to approve the resolution. Um, I think at a future meeting this workshop is a step to get us closer. Is there anything else that you think we might have missed or need to know at this point?

886
04:42:50.480 --> 04:43:06.718
>> No, I think you engaged the item well and you have another opportunity to do that at the next council meeting and we'll continue to put this in front of you until you come to some resolution. >> Yeah, I think we want to keep it on for sure now. I mean, it's on the agenda's

887
04:43:06.718 --> 04:43:23.040
published, but I look forward to taking up. Thank you very much for all hard work and um God, it's a lot. >> It's a lot. >> It it is. I mean, the legal, the financial, the operational side, it's full full.

888
04:43:23.040 --> 04:43:40.080
>> And we're very eager to get the Cape Center on the fee schedule so we can start collecting. >> Yes. I I did want to commend the parks the leisure services committee though too, mayor and council. They spent a lot of

889
04:43:40.080 --> 04:43:55.520
time on this and they've done a lot of hard work >> and several of them were in attendance. Um >> u but they've some most have gone now but >> you're exactly right. they and it's been going on for a while and I I mean really passionate group of

890
04:43:55.520 --> 04:44:16.480
>> advisory board members and without that it'd be a lot of weight on us. So thank you and you're in the middle of it. So thank you for everything. If there's anything else please speak up now.

891
04:44:16.480 --> 04:44:25.080
Otherwise what do you think? Looking for a motion to adjurnn. >> Motion. >> All right. Meeting adjourned.