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seconds. Thank you all for being here. I want to let you know if you do intend to speak tonight, we ask that you please fill out a public comment card. Those are provided in the foyer and uh please provide it here to our deputy and we'll

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make sure you're heard. Thank you again. >> Good. window. >> Yes, I lost my agenda. All right, good evening everyone. It is 6:01 p.m. July 21st, 2026. We are at the Cape

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Canaveral City Council regular meeting at City Hall Council Chambers located at 100 Pulk Avenue in Cape Canaveral, Florida. I call this meeting to order. And with that, Council Member Shoryak, would you please lead us in the pledge?

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> City clerk, please call the role.

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May prom Jackson >> here. Council member King >> here, >> Mayor Morrison >> here, >> Council Member Shiaak >> here, >> and Council Member Willis >> here. >> City Council, Mayor Pro Tim, thank you all for being here with us today and

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city staff and everyone from our community. We appreciate you taking the time to be here for our regular council meeting. Now, this time we are on item number four, which is to approve the agenda as written or with amendments. I think there are some changes

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uh we want to make here. >> Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mayor, I'd like to move the um employee handbook to the consent agenda. >> Okay, >> that's item 9.5. >> Mr. Mayor.

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>> Yes, sir. >> I'd like to uh take item 9.6. six off the agenda. Move it until a later date, probably October. Okay. Yeah. And if this is actually good, if

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we just want to address if there's more, we can do it, I think, all in one motion. So, we've got what was the number, Mayor Pro Tim? I'm um >> 95.

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>> Okay. So, u Mayor Pro Tim uh would like to move item 9.5 under consent agenda and just below it, council member Willis had mentioned uh m uh postponing I guess item 9.6 which is

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side by side and city manager was I think you and I was there moving one up. >> It had to do with >> Yeah. dealing with the policy city code on uh code number 210. >> Mhm. >> Uh speaking uh about that in advance of

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the millillage discussion. So if you want to replace 95 or 96 with that item. >> I think we'll keep the number the same. That might be confusing. But we uh move it just below 9.4, right? So it' be technically 9.5, but

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10.1 to the 9.5 spot. Okay. Any other changes? If any council member would like to courageously make that motion, we could do it. I'll make the motion to

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change 9.5 to the consent agenda to hear 10.1 in its uh place and to move 9.6 city manager performance metrics out to the October meeting. >> A second.

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>> Got a motion by Mayor Pro Tim Jackson and a second by council member Willis on those changes. Any further discussion? City clerk, does that motion clear? >> Yes. Thank you. >> Please call the role.

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>> Mayor Pro Tim Jackson >> four. >> Council member King or Mayor Morrison >> four. >> Council member Shiaak >> four. >> And council member Winnis >> be presenting. >> Excellent. Let the record show the

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motion to approve the agenda as amended passes. 50. Which now brings us to uh presentations and interviews section number five. The first one that we have is number 5.1.

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The 250th anniversary of American independence celebration recognition. We want to take this time uh to thank all the citizens and the volunteers, city council members, sponsors, and city

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staff for your incredible dedication and crossf functional teamwork in making the city of Cape Canaveral's 250th American Independence Celebration an absolute success. From planning across three insightful council workshops to

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executing a truly patriotic event, your collaborative spirit brought our community together in a profoundly meaningful way. We are deeply grateful for your hard work, shared vision, and unwavering commitment to honoring our nation's historic milestone. The Cape

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Canaveral City Council would like to recognize and appreciate the following who made the 250th anniversary of American independent celebration. It was held at Manatee Sanctuary Park on

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Sunday, July 5th, 2026, and it was a success. Council members, starting with Mayor Pro Tim Jackson, Council Member Willis, Council Member Shoryak, and Council Member King. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to be a part of the event,

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but I was uh able to participate in the planning. A lot of work went into it. Thank you all very much. City Council, appreciate you. and of course our our city staff as well. But the sponsors uh

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nice list here of uh charitable generous sponsors. Uh starting with George Bell, the bag piper. Thank you, George. Brevard chapter of the Sons of the American Revolution.

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Canaveral meets in Delhi. Coldwell Banker, Coast Realy, Robert Bob Petty, DGX Direct Graphics, Don Sumer, Ellie May's Tiki Bar, Fishlips

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Waterfront Bar and Grill, Moon Hut Restaurant, Rising Tide Tap and Table Restaurant, Cisco Wholesale Restaurant, Food Distributor, Ryan Schuman, Twisty Treat,

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the Veterans of Foreign Wars, VFW Post 10131, WastePro USA Incorporated, and Zorella's Italian and Woodfire Pizza. Want to also recognize the volunteers, over a dozen

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citizen volunteers and advisory board members, starting with city staff Rich Davis, Laura Gandandy, John Mayberry, Brandon McCay, Michael Schaefer, Molly

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Thomas, Lisa Wilson. Thank you all. And additional support was from Bvard County Sheriff's Office, Canaveral Fire Rescue, the City of Cape Canaveral Clerk's Office, the City of Cape Canaveral Parks, Recreation, and Community

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Affairs, and the City of Cape Canaveral Public Works. And at this time, uh, Mayor Pro Tim and any other council members, if you'd like to make any remarks being there and being a part of it. And I want to specifically thank our

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mayor pro Tim uh for filling in and and representing our city very well. We appreciate your lead on that and the entire city council. Mayor Pro Tim. >> Well, it was just a great day. Um I'm really appreciative that council member King brought it to council. It was a

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great idea and the feedback that I received from people that attended just really love this event. Um, it gave us an opportunity to celebrate our nation and our 250 years. And with all of the,

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it was a short short time frame to turn around an event like that. Without all of the people that volunteered and all of the supporters that came together, that would not have happened. So, um, just a great job and shows the heart of this

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community. >> Mr. Mayor, I'd like to say a word. for our staff. >> We could not have done it without staff. Um Molly and her group, uh parks and recreation, uh the folks with public works, um everybody who was involved and

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I don't want to leave anybody out, but honestly, we did not have a lot of time to pull this together. And uh we would not have been able to pull it together without the help of everybody involved. And as a special surprise, later on in

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the day, our city manager and his wife came and enjoyed the festivities with us, which was a nice surprise because he had other other arrangements um prior to that. So, all in all, it turned out to be a wonderful day. Um it was just Yeah,

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it was all that and a bag of chips. So, thank you everybody. Thank you, >> Council Member Willis. Well, I wanted to give a special shout out to all of the citizens that joined us and volunteered for the day, especially my wife.

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Otherwise, I won't be able to go home tonight. So, thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member Shoryak, you were a part of it. Thank you very much. Yes. >> And I did notice our city manager's name wasn't there. You were a critical part

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of those. Uh, thank you supporting staff. So, thank you very much, Keith. And happy birthday, America. 250 years. That was a big one. And happy we were able to pull it off. Thank you. Very nice. Okay.

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So, at this time, we are at 5.2 on the agenda, which is an applicant interview for the planning and zoning board. This is to interview recommended applicant, Mr. Lewis Brewer, for the appointment to the planning and zoning board. Mr. Brewer, if you're here, we would ask that you please come forward

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to the podium and uh take your time as you're coming up here. And when you're there, our city attorney is going to ask you couple of questions. And we thank you for

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for being here and willing to serve. >> Good evening, Mr. Brewer. >> Good evening. So, just a couple of quick questions. First, all the information in your application. True and correct. To the best of your knowledge. >> To the best of my knowledge. Yes. >> Okay. And then please uh briefly explain to the city council why you would like

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to serve on the planning and zoning board. >> Well, I lost my my previous job as the uh chair of the uh uh appeals board when the uh it was statutoily re revoked. So,

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I just wanted to keep serving in the community if I can and I think I can make a contribution to the planning and zoning board. I'm an attorney. I have experience as a uh administrative law judge at state level and spent uh the

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last 15 years or so as an arbitrator and that's what I still do today. So, I I think I'm used to hearing disputes and listening to facts and trying to sort out things and see where the what the law applies and and help make a good decision.

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>> Thank you. Thank you again, Mr. Brewer. Council, no particular order. >> Well, I'd say he's imminently not qualified. Thank you for uh volunteering to do this. Certainly, I appreciate your willingness to serve in the past and to

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continue. And thank you very much. >> Thank you for serving our city. We appreciate it. >> Mr. Brewer, I see you were JAG Air Force. >> True. >> And I see that you were director of the West Virginia Ethics Commission. So, I

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feel certain you'll have no problem with sunshine laws >> or any or anything that we may have come before you. When I was there for about 8 years, I wrote almost all the opinions that the state published on the sunshine law in West Virginia, which is very

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similar. Main difference is that in West Virginia, it's by statute. Here it's it's constitutional in Florida, but this but the rules are very similar. >> Well, I think we have a a great advantage having you on that board and we appreciate you volunteering to do

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that. um when you look at planning and zoning, legalities do arise. So, I think you're going to be an asset for us and thank you for I hope so >> for being willing to fill that role. >> All right. Yes, Mr. Brewer, I want to

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thank you. I remember we had the opportunity and your willingness to serve on P&Z. I heard some of those meetings and your input brought so much value to the city and perspective. But I would say while planning and zoning and land use is debated, some of those culture and leisure service board

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meetings have some arguing in themselves as well. So, thank you for your willingness to do it and uh we look forward to working with you. >> All right. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. Okay. We are now on to a proclamation

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declaring July 2026 as Parks and Recreation Month. I've got a proclamation. I'm going to come down front here and I think we've got some of our team and director here from the parks department and council. When we're done with this, if you'd like to come

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down for a photo, please do. Thank you. This is an official proclamation of the city of Cape Canaveral, Florida. Whereas the city of Cape Canaveral recognizes that parks and recreation services support an integral part of the so

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social environment and economic health of our community and communities worldwide. And whereas the city of Cape Canaveral exemplifies its commitment to providing parks and recreation services through the conservation and maintenance of 27

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acres of green space, which includes 10 parks, four playgrounds, two youth sports fields, numerous athletic courts, and three brick andmortar facilities that provide quality of life programs and amenities for all ages. And whereas

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parks and recreation services promote time spent in nature, which positively impacts mental health by increasing cognitive performance and well-being and alleviating illnesses such as depression, attention deficit disorders,

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and Alzheimer's. And whereas the city's parks and recreation services increases the community's economic prosperity through crime reduction, increased property values, expansion of the local tax base, increased tourism along with

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the attraction and retention of businesses. And whereas the city's parks and recreation facilities provide essential and adaptable infrastructure that makes our community more resilient in the face of natural disasters. And

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whereas the city's parks and natural recreation spaces ensure the ecological beauty of our community and provide a place for children and adults to connect with nature and recreate outdoors. And whereas the US House of Representatives

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have has designated July as Parks and Recreation Month. Now therefore, I Wes Morrison, mayor of the city of Cape Canaveral, Bvard County, Florida, do hereby proclaim July 2026 as Park and Recreation Month in the city of Cape

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Canaveral. Hereby recognizing the immense value of parks and recreation services to our beautiful beachside community. signed and sealed this 21st day of July, 2026. Thank you very much.

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Three, two, one. Yes. >> Thank you. Thank you, sir. >> Uh, thank you, mayor. Uh, thank you, council, and thank you, city manager. Um, uh, it's very difficult to get my

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entire team in the same room at the same time without leaving something unattended. So, I am very grateful for the ones that were able to come here. And a special shout out to Ian who is our maintenance superintendent because his day starts at 6 am and he does not get air conditioning aside from when he

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is in his truck traveling between facilities. So the fact that he came back today I'm thank you very much. I appreciate it. Um what we do improves quality of life for the folks in Cape Canaveral. And as all of you know as residents here people don't really like

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to cross bridges. So, when it comes to having things to do and places to go and things to make their lives better, whether it's the arts, whether it's walking their dog, whether it's having an event, whether it's you name it, Zumba to yoga to

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restorative meditation, we do everything that we can to provide quality of life services for our community. And we appreciate this recognition. It means a lot to our department. So, thank you very much. Thank you.

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We are lucky to have each and every one of you. Thank you again and everything you do for us. Okay. So, now we are moving on to public participation. I do have some cards up here. Now, some of these might be

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designated or related to a specific budget item. And so if uh it does mark the number, I'm going to push it to the side. However, if it was your intention to speak up front, uh you're more than welcome to come. We can pull that. And

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so if you don't hear your name called and you want to speak up front, please just uh proceed. Uh and if it does not have a number checked, uh I'll assume you'd like to speak at the beginning of the meeting. And I I should just say that Mr. Brad Pell, I see you've got

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item number nine. Uh, Angela Raymond, I see you got budget uh written. Let me just go through them. Mr. Bob Bogger, uh, no items are checked, but the West Control Storm Water, we I think we have a agenda item coming up on that one. Uh,

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Theres Smith, uh, Nancy Hansen Rec Center. Item number seven, short-term rental minimum time. Uh, no item. I'm going to assume that's up front. Uh Mark White House, Nancy Hansen Rec Center, item seven as well. Brian

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Stevens, uh item number one, and also Miss Don Mays, item number one. And JP McKibben, item number one, and Eric Rowan, item number one. Uh first,

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really, everyone's kind of designated for something, maybe with an exception of Mr. Timothy Scully. Tim, are you here with us today? if you'd like to come forward, please. >> Sure. >> Oh, boy. I'm getting nervous. >> Mr. Mayor, ladies and gentlemen, I uh appreciate

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you coming and allowing me to speak. Uh my family and I moved down about a year ago, 8 months a year ago from New York. We got a property around the corner, Pierce Avenue, 323, 325, and we are getting into the shortterm rental. We're

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going to try that. And we notice, as you know, that there is a uh minimum rental time of I think it's 1 week, 7 days. And uh I noticed right around the corner, three or four blocks south, you get into

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Cocoa Beach. I think they can rent out minimum for one or two days, something like that. So, it's kind of makes it a little a little hard and uh was just wanted to view my

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uh I guess concern and let you know if if it it' be great. Uh you know, the city could make more finances if we lowered it a little bit from 7 days to whatever you agree to. I think we all

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would make a little more money. Knock on wood. That's really about it. I didn't prepare for this. I'm sorry. I'm just kind of winging it. So, >> thank you. >> Yes, >> we understand. We'll take your comments

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under consideration and I would encourage you uh to feel free to reach out to our city staff and um thank you for coming before this council. That is a code we're very well aware of and >> we appreciate you taking the time to share with us. >> Okay, you got it.

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>> Thank you. Thanks guys. Have a good night. God bless. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Excuse me, Mr. Mayor. I would like to speak. >> Please come forward, Mr. Pavll. Absolutely. >> Thank you for doing that. And I know that some folks uh time constraint and

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if you'd like to speak uh sooner about an item later in the agenda, totally appropriate. >> Thank you. Uh my name is Brad Pll. I'm a resident in the city of Cape Canaveral in the blighted neighborhood. As you know, I am the current chairman of the

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cultural leisure uh volunteer board, but I'm here speaking out as a citizen. Mr. Mayor, thank you very much for all those kind words you said about what park and wreck does for the citizens of our community, uh for the mental well-being

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for our citizens. It's extremely important. But I'm here to talk about and I apologize for not making the workshop, but I'm here to talk about that. Mr. Thornberry, you walked into a hornets's nest. Sir, good luck.

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To our elected officials, I'd like to know how in two years did you not know we were below the 16.7% reserve? Um, so you are so you

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were not notified by someone that we were below. But the city is a business. Doesn't anyone from our elected officials check where our finances are at least on a monthly basis with our finance team?

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Shame on you guys for not following the money. and it took two years to find it or lack of it. I hear that you're proposing a possible millage rate of 7.1%.

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That's almost double, if not more, than our current millage rate. And possibly we're changing city code or going against city code. That's what I heard at the end part of the meeting this afternoon.

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Due to this lack of paying attention to financial details, remember the citizens trusted or elected officials. When last year in February, I believe the current CFO at the time said, "You dropped the

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millage rate. You're going down a slippery slope." And I believe our city attorney agreed. But I believe, Mr. Mayor, you made, this is paraphrasing, I'll take that chance. Well, the chances happen. We rolled the dice and it looks

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like we've lost. Now, here we are. The ramifications possibly are. The C5 building will be closing at 3 p.m. There will be no Easter egg Easter egg hunt for kids.

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That's one of the cuts that are out there. No repairs to our little league field, which supports our kids. possibly no reindeer run. Don't know about any parades. Okay. But that's all a part of the cuts I believe that were proposed to

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the city council and city manager. This administration, please. This administration is forcing families out of Cape Canaveral. This is not what we want. I presented to the city in February a proposed plan for $8.50 50

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cents a month for every address that would self-fund park and wreck. Park and wreck cost is $4004$450,000 before labor and we would have generated $750,000

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on that. >> Thank you, Mr. PL. >> Thank you. But you all looked at me like deer in headlights and you waste time at Mr. you waste time talking 40 minutes about how to hamburger. We're going to go on to the

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next speaker. You've made that clear. You can Yes. Come forward, please. >> Angela Raymond and I'm a resident. I live at Salana on the river. I'm going to start a little bit differently than Mr. PL,

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but along the same lines. demographics. Why do people, especially retirees, move to Cape Canaveral? Many of us have finances so that we can move anywhere in the world. Anywhere in

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the world. But we chose Cape Canaveral. Why? Close to the international airport. Some of us like to travel. Beautiful beach, small community, great recreational and leisure

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activities, especially tennis and bike riding, totally solvent city, good property values, religious options, in my case, our Savior's Catholic community.

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I'm very involved. Now what I want to say over 60 years the city of Cape Canaveral had an excellent audit report. I read the audit report.

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We had plenty of money in reserves over 20% when I left office. I was the mayor of prom and on city council for six years with uh our mayor John Deo the our finance director who

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was fired worked for the army for over 20 years. He worked in finances. He worked with budgets. He told the city council last year that a higher millage rate was necessary to

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cover expenses and to fund the our reserves. Did you listen? We have a reserve commitment. Our city council chose not to listen. Consequently, now you're grasping at

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straws for money. Paid parking. residents overwhelmingly said in the past they don't want it and they don't want it now. People who live west of uh A1A often

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take the car. I ride my bike because usually there's not a parking space for me, but I have connections so I'm okay. But a lot of people aren't recreational fee hike. Excuse me. A lot of us

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retired. We have fixed budgets. That's why we came here. The recreational facilities. We have an educated group here in Cape Canaveral. We have a vision for the

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future. We like the idea of moving forward. I said that often. We want to move forward. Budgets were always presented to the public with full transparency within the laws that govern our city and

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state. Please, please, I beg of you, calculate a reasonable budget that is achievable and then take responsibility for it. Thank you. >> Thank you. I think the remaining cards have

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numbered items. Again, if anyone would like to speak now, I did my best to state everyone's name. We got it up here. Or if I you did not hear your name, that means I've misplaced it or just haven't turned it in. Is there anyone else that would like to speak um

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at this time other than those we'll absolutely hear soon? Yes, please come forward. And >> have you filled out a card, sir? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> White House. >> Thank you very much. >> I got you right here, Mr. White House.

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Thank you. >> I think u what the two previous speakers said that actually was point on spot on what I what I had to say. one I moved I moved here uh four years ago in my camper and came through Cape Canaveral

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and uh didn't know anyone but one of my first interactions was at Nancy Hansen and the group at Nancy Hansen Marcy all her staff was so welcome welcoming that

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uh I formed a formed a community and felt at home here at Cape Canaveral and since have made it my home and I uh want to say it's a wonderful place a wonderful place and um but at Nancy Hansen specifically

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and doubling the rates as being proposed is u I don't think the answer to solve your uh the problem I think there's other ways that you can do I don't unfortunately I don't know how the what the answers are but I know that doubling

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the rates is on It's only going to aggravate the seniors and the locals that are paying that. I've already we have a a text thread that meets, you know, we're going to play at Nancy Hansen a certain certain time. There's

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already people saying, "Well, we're not going to play there. We're not going to pay that." Even though you know it's not the money, it becomes the you know as just a a doubling of a fee for a service

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is uh it's just not setting well with the community. I think there's other ways that you can uh you can raise that money. So, but uh thank you very much for your time. >> Mr. Mark, just clarify, are you doubling which fee? the uh the monthly rate for

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Nancy Hansen. >> Thank you very much. >> I I know it now. It it includes Nancy Hansen facility and C5, but there's a lot of us that have moved to Florida because I love the out outdoors and I

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see it in the wintertime. The snowbirds, they're not coming to Florida to go inside. The majority of them, they're coming to the state, you know, they come to because we love the weather. We love the people, the community, you know, surrounding that and they're not going

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to use that facility. So, I don't feel like it's right for us to pay pay for that uh that service, but >> thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Appreciate it. >> Yes. Thank you. >> We'll get to you next, Bob. Yes. Please

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>> take your time. Come forward. And I If did you fill out a card your name? >> Yes, Mr. Mayor. I didn't. >> Thank you. >> My name is Theres Smith and I just want to say I was born and raised in Rocklage, lived here all my life except I moved to raise my kids in California. My dream I lived in I was born in

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Rocklage, lived in Coco. Um then lived on Merit Island, grew up mostly on Merit Island since I was 10. And then my dream was to always move to the city of Cape Canaveral. That that was where I wanted to be. And since I've been here, um, I

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played tennis at night cuz I worked at my dad's law office during the day and with the group and the Nancy Hansen wasn't very big back in 2010 when I moved back from California. And there was basically tennis which I

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played in some you know but since then it has grown tremendously and all the seniors here vastly appreciate everything that they've done at Nancy Hansen everything that the city has done to resurface our courts to that for the tennis for the pickle ball to have all

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these classes for exercise that we need for seniors and I just wanted to shout out to the parks and rec crew because they've been fantastic and they do their job well and they're hard workers and all of us seniors really appreciate them

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and we meet so many people playing at Nancy Hansen because because of the cruise ships people come down here for a week too and I'm not just saying this but they say this is the bestrun facility from New York to Delaware to

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New Jersey to Maine because all the people are welcoming the players and all the staff. So, I just wanted to shout out to City of Cape Canaveral for that. >> Very nice. Thank you, >> Mr. Bogger. I saw your hand raised. If

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you'd like to speak, please come forward. Um, Bob Ber, I'd like to speak on West Central storm water system. At the end, uh, where out falls into the river, we're still blocked. 70% is my guess. I

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have paid for two studies. One study before uh uh the city took action uh and I had it surveyed at my expense and then I uh uh had another study performed after you guys spent money.

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First of all, thank you for spending some of the money. I think you're up to $35,000 trying to fix it, but the reality is it's still blocked. If you stand in front of the storm water pipe as I did and I sent the pictures

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along with the study, it comes up to my waist 41 in. If you stand where at the edge of where the outfall is at the river, I'm in 8 in

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of water. The pipe is 54 in. only 4 in of free flow is coming out. If you take that information and punch it into AI, AI is very good at doing math

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and say you have a 54 inch pipe and you pile a stand 50 inches up, it will tell you your block 70% flow for storm water. That's where we're at. October 25, we had a

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rainstorm, not a hurricane. I came within an inch of uh losing a 100 rooms. Uh it was not an event during a hurricane. I bring in pumps and pump the water out. So this has happened because

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of neglect on maintenance over 39 years. I have three choices. work with you. I have been trying to do that. I had a meeting on Friday. I offered to loan the city the money to fix it, but

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it has to really fix it. We've been at odds because I said you did not need permits. City's position, they need permits. Tonight when I walked in here, they told me we did not need permits. Bottom line is

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if I lose a 100 rooms, I will lose $6 million and $10 million worth of revenue flat out. My insurance will cover the $6 million. Insurance company will look for who's responsible.

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State law requires the city to maintain the storm water system. My offer is if you're short of money, I'll loan you the money, but I cannot sit here and take no action. It's been

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nine months. So, I don't know what to do. The city is harder to communicate in the 30 years I've been doing business here than it's ever been. Okay? So, I would like to open up a line

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of communication. I'd like to get this problem fixed. But it got to be a rational and reasonable way to do it. And that is the state law requires us to maintain the storm water. I'm not asking you to do. I'm just

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saying restore it to the 1989 design. The city has a copy of the the plan and just restore it to that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. Anyone else like to speak? I got four more cards remaining. I'm Those are for

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the later agenda items. Seeing none, we'll go ahead and close public participation. Thank you again for taking the time to be a part of public participation. Which now brings us

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to item number seven titled managers matters. Our city manager, Mr. Keith Touchberry is with us. Thank you, Keith. The floor is yours. Thank you, mayor. Good evening, council. Um, first item is facilities update, Nancy Hansen Rec

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Center. Um, bids are out and they're due Thursday the 23rd. So, we hope to open those up and get that project going once we do that. Manitary sanctuary park lighting. Um, actually that lighting has been installed and we're good to go on that project. It's complete. the villas

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of Filillmore. Um we are ready to proceed with our instrument uh for the expanded drainage easement document that residents have to sign. The plan was finalized by our engineer and the legal descriptions have been

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prepared and the instrument is also ready to go. So, we plan to present that instrument to the residents tomorrow and that will start the two week uh time limit on getting acquiring all of their signatures. So,

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and the Filillmore Avenue streetscape project, we had a a um meeting with all the residents uh on Filillmore to have a preconstruction meeting with Massie um and with our staff and it was very well attended and it was very well received

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by the residents. Um, I think it was a great opportunity for the residents to meet with the contractor and go over all their specific issues. Uh, every property owner is different and, you know, if you have a mailbox that might be adjusted or a fence or what's going to happen with this type-c inlet over

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here or what have you. So, it was a great conversation and I know the the residents on Filillmore Avenue truly appreciate it. So, I want to commend Tim Carlile and his staff for hosting that event and making it happen for us. Thank you, Tim. city personnel update. We did have a

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round of promotions um and consolidation of positions. We promoted uh June Clark who is our public works services director. She still retains that title and she is now our deputy city manager. Joey Blacker has been advanced from interim finance

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director to finance director. and we vacated the deputy director's position and we also offered a position to an accountant and they should be starting soon once they pass all of their background checks and we promoted Zack Icults to community and economic

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development and we vacated his position as the resiliency division supervisor. We still have one vacant clerk's position that we are remaining vacant and looking to eliminate next fiscal year and we have a full-time and a part-time position still vacant in Parka. Um, all of those promotions,

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transfers, and vacating positions saved the city $126,000 in salary and benefits. We And that's your vacant position update as well. And we do want to recognize, as you know, we've added employee recognition to this time slot

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because we think it's important uh to let the community know and the council know just how dedicated and hardworking our employees are. So, Zach IILZ put in a little accommodation for Abigail Holmes who works in resiliency and Abby had the opportunity to represent the

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city um during a and help me out here Zach if I stumble. She um is our uh resilience planning and servicing manager and she participated in the first ever panel discussion at the 2026 Florida Flood Plane Managers Association annual conference in Orlando and she did

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an excellent job representing the city and a fellow panelist highly commended her um informing us that Abby did a great job and represented the city positively and so we just want to give Abby a big shout out. She's been making a difference in our resiliency division.

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Thank you, Zach, for putting in that that letter. And we have a grants update also involving resiliency and Abby Holmes. We are looking at pursuing an FD coastal grant coastal partnership initiative.

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It's called the CPI. So, it's FDCPI if you want to commit that one to memory. and it's uh pertaining to restoring shorelines and wetlands um and other me measures that mitigate the effects of um natural hazards. And this is going to be in partnership with a

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community partner. We are in conversations with one right now and uh we hope to finalize though and perhaps if we can make this happen uh we'll make the council aware of who we're working with. that is a local business and um several about $60,000 I think is the

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match that we're looking at and the window doesn't open until September I believe. Yep. And and so we'll keep council apprised of of that one. Uh this is along the Banana River. We're always working to stabilize that shoreline.

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And final is the auditor selection committee update. As you know, we formed an auditor selection committee chaired by council member Shoryak and we did have one meeting where we um had an agenda. We finalized how we operate and you know worked over the RFP, put that

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out. We had a lot of exchanges on information on the RFP and uh so we have possibly eight or nine firms that have applied to be our auditor, if you will. And the bid opening is also July 23rd at 1:45 p.m. And uh the evaluation and

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short list meeting will occur a week later on July 30th. So, you know, we hope to finalize this and have a new auditor in place. Our current auditor is certainly welcome to apply and we'll see what the committee selects moving forward. And that is my manager's

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matters. Thank you, council. >> Thank you. Excellent update. And council member Shoryak, thank you for chairing that very important board and look forward to that. Council, any questions on managers matters? >> No, but I just want to say

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congratulations to Abby. That's great to see that kind of recognition. So, um, if she's not here, please share that with her. Okay. Thanks. >> Excellent. So now we are at uh item number eight which is the consent

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agenda. We moved item 9.5 the employee handbook into the consent agenda with 8.1 and 8.2. However, um I'd like to propose that we um adopt the consent agendas uh items 8.2 and 9.5 and uh

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postpone on 8.1 of the minutes. talking to the city clerk. I believe that's be helpful. So, council, if we're okay with that, I would uh approve the consent agenda with a motion specifically for those items 8.2 and 9.5.

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>> Make a motion to approve the consent agenda 8.2 and 9.5. >> Second. >> Got a motion by council member Willis and a second by council member King. Any further discussion? Seeing none, city clerk,

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>> mayor protein Jackson >> or >> council member King >> or Mayor Morrison >> four. >> Council member Shiaak >> four. >> And council member Willis >> four. >> Motion passes 50 on the two consent agenda items.

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Which now brings us to the item for action. Item number nine. Making sure where I'm moving around here, I'm not overlooking anything. This is a development agreement in a conceptual site plan application for 8810 Astronaut Boulevard, Petitioner

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McKibben Hotel Group, property owner, Sheldon Cove LLP. I think we got some city staff team members here and our city manager. I think um we get a overview council. If we have any, you know, technical

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questions, we can ask them. I do have some cards here. Uh I believe some of the applicant and stakeholders involved with this uh item and so after our city staff, I think gives us an overview, we'll have an opportunity to hear from

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them and >> thank you councel >> talk. Yes. Thank you. Just check in. City manager. I believe we're gonna >> we're ready to go in our team. >> Mr. Colult is going to lead us off here. Thank you. Yes, we are. Thank you. >> Thank you, Joey. Sorry, I had to get kick you out of your seat. I'll give it

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back. Um, so council, this is a motion to consider the approval of a de development agreement and conceptual site plan application in accordance with section 001-222.2 of the city code for 150 plus room hotel at 8810

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astronaut boulevard. Um, so the site is 2.61 61 acres uh on astronaut as said and is existing parcel that has development on it in the form of a commercial building is home to several tenants right now. Um the property is own commercial manufacturing and has as

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I said a commercial land use designation and it's importantly located in the A1A economic opportunity overlay district or the EOD. Um the applicant is McKibben Hotel Group and they've submitted an application for development agreement and conceptual site plan for review.

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Um, and important to note that while hotels are not generally permitted for use within the C2 zoning district, the EOD allows for hotels as an added use within the C2 zoning district. I wanted to note or uh direct council's attention that at the July 1st, 2026 planning and

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zoning board meeting. Um this item was showcased to the board members and it was voted unanimously to be recommended for approval of the development agreement and conceptual site plan or recommend rather that council uh unanimously vote to approve it uh with a condition added for pedestrian oriented

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site orientation. You'll note in the agenda that the uh planned the the site plan shown to the planning and zone zoning board is now different. Um the condition was the applicant shall reconfigure the site layout to eliminate all but one row of surface parking

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currently positioned between the front of the hotel building and the public rightway establishing compliance with active streetscape and design criteria of city code section 001-669 for the EOD. So the new site plan was submitted. uh

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the applicant wasn't able to get it to us uh in time for the agenda to be brought to you, but shortly after that, we were able to work with them and our city engineer, Rich, I have to give a lot of kudos to him, he shephered the applicant through and the applicant came back with a new proposed uh concept plan

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that you can see where the building was reoriented 90° uh instead of in the north south configuration into the east west configuration generally uh where there is one row of parking now between the building and A1A. Um there is it meets the number of uh stories, the

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number of hotel rooms that are required uh and the number of parking spaces that are required while adding uh some more green space which was nice to see. Um I can let Connor Ford, our senior planner, take over for any some technical details now and then we do have the applicant group here that they can uh if you want

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allow for more discussion so they can uh tell you what they would like to do with this site. >> Sure. Yeah, just a few minor things to add. Uh, you know, this is different because typically the planning and zoning board would approve site plans or things of that nature. And it's

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important to delineate that while this is going through a conceptual site plan process that it's different from the normal site plan procedure and that it's using section 11022.2. And under that route, city council is able to consider a development agreement

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and conceptual site plan prior to a site plan approval. So, I mean, I could read that whole section of code. It's a rather short section of code, but what it says is that the review by council is to be based on a preliminary evaluation

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of the site plan review criteria to the extent feasible at the conceptual phase and that it is not binding on the council's subsequent consideration because when they come back to actually submit a site plan, you guys would see this again. So, this is not the one and

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only time that council would look at this application, but what it's meant to do is come to terms on a development agreement and conceptual site plan. Uh, what that means is that you can still add conditions, work things through with the applicant. Uh, but it's not the only

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time that you'll be seeing the application. And yes, we do have folks from the applicant team, so I'm sure they're happy to talk to you about site design choices or anything of that nature. I will point out that this is a project that would likely happen many years from now as those tenants inside

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that building have leases that are yet to expire. Um yeah, so if you would like to hear from the applicant group, they are here where we can field more questions. >> Thank you. I we will absolutely I think uh hear from them. If that concludes the the brief overview, we might come back.

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Just want to uh check with our city manager or city attorney. Is there anything I think that that you want to go over beyond what we've learned from our director and senior planner?

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>> Just touching base with you. >> Um the the only thing I would just emphasize kind of touched upon it um mayor is in council is that um this is following section 110-22.2 two, which the city council adopted to

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help streamline the um review process for development projects. So, under this section, as Connor indicated and and Zach, you know, th this propos this agenda item proposes a development agreement and conceptual plan for a proposed hotel. Um the agreement and the

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conceptual uh plan just lay out a a blueprint, so to speak, regarding the proposed project. As Mr. Ford uh indicated uh this is just a preliminary uh look for feasibility and possibility uh to get the hotel approved. Um at the

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appropriate time um within the certain time frames stated in the development agreement, the developer can submit the formal applications to go through the formal re site plan review process and development permit process um for final

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consideration of the project. So again, this is kind of laying out uh the blueprint for um a possible proposed hotel in the future. Um contingent upon uh later the applicant coming in and submitting all the formal applications

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and go through a site plan process. Um there are any variance requests that may be necessary during the engineering process. Those would be identified. In addition, concurrency review, right, which is an important review. Um that would also have to occur at at that

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time. And that's where the projects are evaluated for compliance with um sewer levels of service, water level of service, transportation levels of service. All that would be done at a at a later date when the applicant formally submits.

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>> And I think the only thing I might add to that is that at that same time that the attorney was talking about, they would also have to complete a thorough storm water review. >> Good point. I will say too in terms of the Ping zoning board's condition from a

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staff perspective, we believe that condition has been fulfilled at this point in the reorientation of the building. So I did want to just give appreciation to the applicant for doing that in the time that they had to make this meeting. So thank you guys. >> Thank you council. Before we speak, I

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would disclose that I had the opportunity to meet with the property owner, Miss Don Mace, who is uh I think going to speak tonight and chair that I received a basic overview. This was prior to the PNZ board meeting to learn about uh what was coming forward and uh

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not knowing how PNZ would advise and weigh on it. Uh got an overview and and we've all received the packet. nothing beyond I think what we've learned today um being quasi judicial and I think if any

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other council members had that opportunity or took that opportunity I wanted to share that I I did have knowledge that this would be coming before us thank you >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes. >> I also got an update from Don Mays on uh

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what was possibly coming and it was a very high level layout of the proposed plan. Thank you. If uh this time council, any questions from what we've heard here uh from our staff? And

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>> I do have a question. >> Yes. Council member King. Um, I'd like to ask the uh applicants, what is the uh longestterm lease currently in existence that would prevent them from beginning the project anytime? >> I think what we could do here is if we

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want to go to the applicants, let's take that one first. But would are are there any questions for city staff at this time? I think before we shift over >> Well, I do have a question. Yes, I have a question related to that with >> if you want to come back or the order

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matters. We can go straight to your give the applicants a chance to speak and then >> Okay, let's do that first. >> You got it. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh I'll let you you decide the order. I have Mr. Eric Rowan, Mr. JP McKibben, Don Maize,

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and it's Brian Stevens. Please, as you see and desire to come in the order you'd like, please. Thank you. Good evening. Good evening. Uh my name is Brian Stevens. I'm with the Lounge Law Firm serving as legal counsel for

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the applicant given hotel group. Thanks so much to the staff for the great introduction. I know we have a long agenda tonight, so I'll be brief with respect to my comments. I really just want to emphasize u who we are, why we're here, and and what exactly we're asking for. Um,

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McKibben is a long-standing hotel developer. Uh, I think everybody on council knows about the existence of the the current hotel that they have within the city and the quality of the product that they build with respect to the Hilton Garden Inn right up here up the

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street. Um, as staff indicated, uh, we received an affirmative and unanimous approval at PNZ with respect to, uh, this proposed concept plan through this particular path. And what we're asking for from council tonight is

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similar approval with respect to this this path with the development agreement and the concept plan attached. Um, the reason that we are asking for this, and I I just wanted to touch on this a little bit more deeply than staff did,

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and we have uh representatives from both the executive team, the current property owner, as well as the engineering to try to address some of the questions that have already been posed. But specifically, the reason that we're not uh already closed or in the process of closing on

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the property and submitting for a site plan is, as staff indicated, there are tenants in this property and we have no desire to oust those tenants. We we want them to be able to remain in the property for the remainder of their leaseold. So, uh, we had to choose a

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different path and, uh, thankfully, uh, through council with the city attorney and the staff, we came up with, uh, the utilization of what your ordinance already provides with respect to this development agreement and concept plan.

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So, what we're asking for in the in the development agreement itself is actually uh quite narrow in my opinion. Um, first it's confirmation that we're able to build a six-story structure similar to the other hotels and namely our hotel um

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right up the street here. Second, we're looking for uh and the reason that we have gone to such great lengths to produce and revise and revise the concept plan is uh we're looking for confirmation as to footprint envelope setbacks, stepbacks or lack thereof as

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indicated on the concept plan. Third, uh, and as we've already alluded to, the the the principal purpose of the development agreement is to allow us the time needed to permit the tenants to enjoy the remainder of their leaseold.

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Um, importantly, and I wanted to emphasize this, I know staff did as well already, this development agreement is um, references a conceptual plan only. It is not site plan approval. It is not uh technical review and approval as

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attorney Garganis already indicated. We will have to come back and go through the city's normal process in connection with the tenants vacating the property to secure the final approvals to actually develop what we propose to develop on this site. Another uh beautiful hotel.

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So again, what we're asking for um from the city having received unanimous planning and zoning approval is for city council to vote to approve this proposed development agreement along with the concept plan as um director ITZ has

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provided you tonight and forgive us for not being able to get that to you sooner. It just is what it is sometimes. >> Okay. >> So thank you again. We have representatives from the executive team, the seller and um engineering to be able to answer technical questions. So I'll seed to them.

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>> Okay. But before you do, sir. Sure. Um what is the longest term lease currently in existence in that building? >> So not representing the property owner, we have a representative from the property owner here. Would you mind if I just deferred to answer that question? >> Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

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>> Hello, Mrs. May or Miss Mazize. Hi. >> Good to see you. Um the current the there are two tenants in the building. The larger tenant has three years on their current lease with an option for an additional five after that. So it's a potential of 8 years on that tenant. The

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second tenant, the smaller tenant has their current lease uh runs till 2028, but that is only about 3,000 ft within the building. But the main tenant in that building has potentially and most likely 8 years uh lease left to go

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>> with your with your agreement >> with the current leases that are there. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yes. >> All right. Thank you. >> Now, >> oh, sorry. Go You had another question? >> No, I didn't. No, no. >> If we allow them to They've filled out comment cards. Let them finish. We can ask them, I think, our questions.

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>> Yep. >> Welcome. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, good evening, mayor, council members. Um, just wanted to introduce myself for those that don't know me. I'm JB McKibben with McKibben Hospitality and McKibben. Uh, we're reper celebrating 100 years as a

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familyowned and operated business this year. Uh, but we develop, own, and operate hotels primarily in the southeast. We're headquartered in Tampa, Florida, so just on the other coast. And has already been mentioned, um we got the exciting opportunity a few years ago

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to enter lovely uh Cape Canaveral, which I've been chasing for a long time with our Hilton Garden in um project up the street, which is closing in on one year of operations. Um just a little bit, you know, uh about the benefits of the project um from a

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tax basis and sounds like there could be uh some some budget challenges with the city, but versus the vacant lot that occupied our Hilton Garden in uh site previously, you know, 10x in terms of the value uh that's going to go to the city. That's not counting for the county

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and everybody else who gets their share. uh for this building, the proposed redevelopment um likely at least five times from the intensity increase in use for the taxable basis um for that property. So adding to the city's coffers, hopefully helping pay for some

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of those resident amenities via the commercial property. Um obviously jobs, we've added 50 to 60 uh full-time jobs with our hotel and restaurant with the first project. Similar estimates for the second one. Um, beyond that, you know,

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we don't just uh develop boxes in different communities. We're stakeholders in our communities and when we find a community we like, we want to invest more and more. Um, we're big donor for the aquarium uh that will be built with uh Breard. Very excited um about that project. We have an arts

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program for all of our uh hotels. So, all the art that's been curated throughout the hotel from the guest rooms to the public spaces is all procured with local artist. Uh many of those are commissionable works. So um if you haven't been there, please uh you

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know stop by. You'll probably see some names you might be familiar with from the community, but everyone you know the idea is to try to keep as much money as possible in the community from GC artist etc. Um and then just additional community amenities. So with the Hilton

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Garden in um one opportunity I saw on the market was just a lack of good restaurant product uh in the market and so we came up with an independent concept and even though it's in the hotel I do hope everyone here will come and patronize this but we've got a

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scratch kitchen great team putting out great food and trying to put an elevated experience and offering um not just for our hotel guests but for uh others that are in the community. So happy to be here. I'm happy to be looking at a potential second investment even though

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it's uh quite a ways down the road. Um but again setting up roots in Cape Canaveral here to answer any questions if you have them. Thank you. >> Thank you Mr. McKibben. >> Hello. >> Good evening. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Good evening Mayor uh Mayor Prom and city council members. Uh my name is Eric

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Rowan. I uh am uh part of the McKibben Hotel Group team. I've been with the company 23 years. Uh we've uh built new build hotels all over the southeast. And um before I answer any questions, I wanted to commend the city staff for

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working with us. We work with a lot of different city staff. Um uh groups and uh the experience we had here with a challenging oddshaped site where we didn't believe that we can get within compliance due to great

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communication. several meetings. Uh they helped us through. You hate to admit you're wrong sometimes, but uh they helped us through to be uh to make our plan in compliance after the planning commission meeting. I apologize that we got it to you so late, but uh we really

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do appreciate uh the city staff that you have here and I'm happy to answer any questions uh related to the design and the the site plan layout. >> Thank you, Mr. Rowan. Don, I know you came up, Miss Maize, and

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you asked a question or answered a question. Obviously, if you'd like to. >> Certainly. Um, good evening everyone. Um, thank you to the members who had the opportunity to meet with me. I know I sent emails to all the council members and offered to meet with them if they

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had questions prior to the council meeting to discuss this project and why our family chose to redevelop this piece of property in this way. Um, as many of you know, our um, family has been in the community since the mid9s buying properties and mostly in the commercial

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real estate space. We had the opportunity to work with the McKibben group with the Hilton Garden Inn. Found them to be an amazing organization and when the opportunity came to sell them this site for redevelopment to become a hotel, we felt they would be the perfect

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partner in Cape Canaveral because of their commitment to the communities that they work in. Also, being a family-owned business, working with another family-owned business is something we really appreciated. We are excited about this project for the McKivven Group to

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develop it. This site needs redevelopment. For those of you who may or may not know, this was originally built as a Bible college in the '60s. We took the building down to the slab in the '9s and rebuilt it, but it's time for this building to become something else. This is a great use of the space,

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adds to the tax base for the city, and allows a needed use within the economic overlay district. Um, and that's why we're we're part of this project going forward with them and we are excited about this opportunity for them.

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>> Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member King. >> Yes, >> you had the floor. You actually >> Well, actually, >> appreciate all of you taking the time to to be here. >> Thank you. Thank you. Um, and we like doing business with family companies,

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too. Yes. Um, but my question now is for our staff. um talk talking about the traffic the existing traffic on A1A um the transportation level of service uh with with the addition of that whole

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area being developed even further and in this case a 162 room hotel um that's going to add to the the level of the level of the traffic the transportation right there. uh what what is our staff

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doing to um address that, to anticipate it, to ameliate it? Because right now we're we're despite what FDOT says, I think we're practically at max max uh capacity at certain times of day and certain days of the week. So, what can

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you tell us? I would say that as it relates to this project specifically under the framework in code there wouldn't be a requirement right now to do a detailed transportation study

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>> um you know as some sort of development agreement addition. You could always consider the possibility of, you know, guaranteeing a compliant transportation impact analysis, but that would typically be required during the site

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planning process later on. Um, I think that, you know, multiple city departments are always monitoring our local roads and like you alluded to, there's only so much that we can do with state road A1A, but with our local roads, we do have a lot more control

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over those. And I think a lot of it would come down to access management, you know, understanding the best way to have cars flow in and out. But transportation concurrency is something that is considered during a site plan. And if you cannot show that your project

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will not lead to adverse transportation impacts that trigger a certain level of service, then that means that you'd fail your concurrency and that would be during the site plan process. >> Thank you, Connor. Just on that to

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>> you know as Connor indicated just to add just a little bit when the applicant comes forward with site plan approve final site plan approval they have to go through transportation concurrency review and you know they there's a certain code provision technical code provision that

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they have to measure uh the traffic concurrency um I just wanted to add an additional note is that they also have to pay transportation impact fees, right? And there's a possibility to mitigate trans uh transportation impacts uh through the use of those impact fees. We've done

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that before. Mr. Barger's hotel, we had transportation impact fees allocated by the county um that were collected for his development projects to be used on transportation related improvements that were um related uh to the to that hotel

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area. So there there are those opportunities to mitigate against transportation impact impacts later on in the process. >> Thank you. >> Question. >> Yes, Mayor Pro Tim. >> Um so city attorney, is that the 1,500

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that we they're looking at in their contract paying annually towards road upkeep? Because to me, >> that is like an amount that you might as well give us nothing because you can't fix anything on a I can't fix a pothole for that.

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>> I mean, here's there's a related issue and it's unrelated to public roadways. Imperial Boulevard is a private roadway. So, there's a private contractual arrangement with the property owners relative to the maintenance of um Imperial Boulevard or Imperial uh Avenue. Um,

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>> so is that for this >> that's related to the adjacent Imperial Street and but it's a private transaction and maintenance of a private road, not a public road. >> Okay. >> Yeah. The 1500 seems a little low. Um, but you know, that's the private

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transaction there that they need. Now in the event that you know when we get the final site plan review and there are um you know some conditions that need to be addressed um in during site plan review that may come up related to Imperial. Who knows at which point you know there

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might need to be some um improvements related to final site plan approval. I can't predict that but sometimes that kind of stuff happens. >> And uh Mr. Mayor, I I had a question for one of you as you please. I'm not sure

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who would want to answer this or but one of my concerns with the new uh layout and thank you so much for making the alteration that because I saw the old site map and the way that you moved it to accommodate all of the code for the

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parking. But I do have concerns about the ingress and egress on central because we've got the apron coming in for you know entry and exit. um that's east on the east end of the property and

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then an ingress and egress that's a little further west. Now that the the thing that concerns me on that section is that we don't even have a right turn lane there. So adding 162 cars if you

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were completely booked out, you know, could really impact traffic during um you know high peak times like when people are commuting to the space center and that kind of thing. So is there a possibility for that? And I know that

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you're not going to want to hear this, but I was wondering if that could be moved to Imperial so that the entry remains on that road since that's where the entry for Hilton Garden in is located and I think that would help with

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traffic in that area. >> Well, I could at least I could at least start the conversation on it. Um, the current existing condition has curb cuts maybe about 50 ft off of Astronaut Boulevard. And we we had similar concerns, which is why we located uh the

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new curb cuts much further to the east um to try to create some stacking area and also pull it in further into our site. Um, and uh, so that was the purpose why we eliminated the existing

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curb cuts cuz we had concerns about stacking and and just its proximity to Astronaut Boulevard. >> And and thank you. I'm I'm appreciative to hear that this truly is just a two little two-lane small road. You know,

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there's not three lanes at the light, one for left, one for straight, and one to turn right. Um, when you look at adding all of that traffic in there and it gets crazy. I've seen someone literally drive up the wrong side on the opposite side, you know. So, I've seen

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some crazy driving there at that intersection. Um, wow. >> So, I just have concerns with adding a bunch of traffic in that spot. Um, that's that's why I was uh I w I wanted

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to just mention that that road um has more traffic than most of our roads that go east because it's the first one everyone comes to. It's the one that they turn left on and head down to Ridgewood. Um we have problems with

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speeding. You know, we have people that walk on that road, too. And I'm just letting you guys know that that's one thing that does concern me is just how will it flow because that road and and you know Miss Mace that it was designed

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a long time ago, right? So >> I just wanted to say um you know one we have the existing office building that's there now. So it does generate a significant volume at peak times and part of concurrency and traffic engineer will be looking at this but um you know

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the way we laid out the building you know since we're oriented towards central you know we want our front door there but we've got the access on both sides I do think we'll see uh folks that naturally gravitate if they're parked in the back to go to Imperial. If they're parked towards central they'll probably

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take central. a more timid driver or somebody uh who wants to take a left might gravitate to central because you have a lighted interchange there and that's a safer configuration than having to cross through the middle. Uh but the the main thing for us was um trying to

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improve the configuration that exists today which you know in my opinion there's there's a lot to be desired in terms of no traffic sacking and and pretty dangerous configurations for the curb cuts. And so this was our approach to again keep our presentation for

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central for our front door um so we're oriented in a proper direction but we've still got traffic flows um on both sides of the site in and out which should help alleviate some of that. So and so council I will just say it's my

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opinion if we're going to do it this way city needs to redo that street because it needs to have additional lanes to keep the traffic flowing. That's my opinion. one of five. >> Um, just to echo what Mr. McKibben

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mentioned, um, having the, uh, the exit over on um, Imperial as well will help diffuse and spread out the traffic coming coming through as well. But thank you for your comment. We will definitely, you know, being this is a

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con conceptual site plan, we'll definitely take it under consideration as we move towards a formal site plan approval process as well. >> Council member Shory, >> I have a question I guess maybe for the city attorney. If we approve this

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conceptual plan and then just say five years from now they're not we agree there's we find out there's a problem with the traffic it it it's going to generate too much traffic or you know not fit in. What what's our recourse? Are we obligated to let this go up anyway? Can they come back and say

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hey well 5 years ago you said it was all right. You have to let us build it no matter what it does to our traffic. >> So so the use is permitted under the code. Um it would it would would be dealt with at the transportation um concurrency evaluation process to the

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extent that there is a traffic um um situation that needs to be addressed. In some cases there'll be there can be imposed conditions to address and mitigate traffic impacts. There are proportionate share mitigation agreements. Without boring you with all

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the details that may or may not be required under the city code. I mentioned transportation impact fees that will have to be paid and they get paid to the county, but the city has the ability to work with the county to claw that those transportation impact fees to

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be expended to deal with impacts caused by a specific project which we have done um in the past. So those issues are very legitimate. They will be reviewed at nauseium at the site

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plan process and then the impacts would have to be mitigated um to the extent that uh the transportation information reveals you know these impacts that have to be mitigated. Is that is that >> yeah I just want to make sure we weren't

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obligated to do this no matter what it does to our traffic I guess is our thing. So we can stop it if we determine that maybe the roads can't handle it and that kind of thing. >> That is very unusual and rare. What my point is that the impacts would have to

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be mitigated. >> Okay, >> that's how it typically works. um you know development has to um you know pay for itself under when payment of impact fees right for growth related issues that money has to be used to address

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impacts and there are other mechanisms to mitigate impacts as I mentioned proportionate share mitigation agreements that the code addresses it's it's a in the this is hypothetical in the event that you know a develop a site plan could not meet a specific

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concurrency requirement permit like water, sewer, transportation, right? If you can't meet it, then the development permit cannot be issued until the impacts are addressed. And sometimes the impacts are addressed through

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agreements. Sometimes they have to be addressed before the permit can be issued. Depends. I mean, I I'm just speaking very generally and very broadly. >> Thank you. >> I had a question for you, city attorney. I know that we just had an impact or

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that we have an impact fee study that we're going to be it's either completed or being worked on. So, um if we approve this conceptual site plan now, does that tie us into our current impact fees?

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>> Okay. It's the impact fee at the time the permit the final permit is issued >> and also the impact fees some of the impact fees are not >> while they can be used to mitigate impacts within within the city they are imposed by other agencies right like

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water impact fees imposed by the city of Coco transportation impact fees on BVR county um the city establishes it sewer impact fees for um locally but some of the impact fees are imposed by other jurisdictions um but are are expended to mitigate

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impacts in our community. >> So those are those happen at the time of the building per permit process. >> They're required at that time. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. And then I had a question for you all just because I'm interested. Um

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if if the tenant is there for potentially eight more years, why is this a um something that you would planned for that far in advance? Because I'm not sure that Hilton Garden in when

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you did it was that far in advance. So I'm just curious on that one. >> Yeah, I mean uh mostly we want to be able to close on the property now. We want to know that we can have this future opportunity and if we didn't think we had the future opportunity to

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be a hotel, then we wouldn't want to close on the property. So, I agree with you. Uh it is a lengthy time period and atypical even for us. Um but the development opportunities in Cape Canaveral are limited and we're a

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patient family business. >> Thank you. I was curious about that and the reason being is that we have another property in the city that we did a quite lengthy um process for them for development but it was a phased project

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so I just couldn't figure out why. But if it's tied into your purchasing the property I understand that um that makes a little more sense to me since this would really be a singlephase project. So I was curious about that. Thank you.

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>> You're welcome. Um um city attorney, I have a question for you. Um and maybe to the city manager as well. Um don't we have an overlay, a zoning overlay in that area of the city? >> And if we do have that overlay, how long

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is that in place before it expires? >> So there are well generally speaking two overlays I'd like to would like to just mention. One is the um zoning overlay called the economic opportunity overlay district >> that um is a code that was adopted by

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the city council. It's a land development regulation and you know it's in existence and it's controlled by the city council, right? Council modifies and you know can do whatever it wants to that code at appropriate times. The

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other overlay that's worth mentioning is that it's also within the community redevelopment area. Um, so this property is is is in the CRA area. Um, to the extent that this property were to develop into a hotel

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and commence paying advalone taxes while the CRA is still in existence, then the city would get um, you know, the the additional tax increment taxes um, both from Brevar County and and the city.

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>> Does that have an expiration? has an expiration date of 2041. I think I'm going off the top of my head. >> So, if they're going to develop and provide tax increment financing for the CRA, they need to develop this sooner

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rather than later. >> All right. Thank you. >> Oh, one one >> Oh, please. >> Just one thing. Um the uh the city's overlay we that can be removed anytime the at the at the at the behest of the

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council. >> Uh generally speaking, but before Senate Bill 180 um I would say that's not an option at the moment. >> And Senate Bill 180 expires when?

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>> The well yeah October 1, 2027 unless otherwise extended. >> I see. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. So, I got just some questions. Um, first of all, thank you again for for coming forward. The I'm just trying to

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get an understanding of the timeline. I was trying to to read through it. Is the uh effective date I guess when would maybe I'm overlooking. Can we talk through when the effective date theoretically

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would happen so that we could get just a basic idea of these? I see 10 years site plan submission deadline. I see two years after section 8.1

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through 8.4 just a ballpark estimate of what that looks like. Timeline. >> Sure. Yeah. Um, so of course your council for the city should weigh in as well to the extent that I'm overlooking

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anything, but our expectation with respect to the effective date is that it would take um effect prior to us closing on the property so that the uh Sheldon Cove LLP, the current owner of the site, would execute the agreement with the

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city and then it would, as we say, run with the land for our benefit as it takes over. So, as soon as the city could execute the agreement, it could start the timelines. And again, I'd be happy to converse back and forth with um the city attorney about the same. So

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just in talking in years if it if that happened say by the end of this year 2026 >> am I reading correctly that there's 10 years that the developer would have uh to file applications

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for site plan approval that's to submit the application so 2036 I guess easy math >> correct correct and again those uh to a question that was asked earlier about the timelines. That's that's based largely upon the tenants's existing

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leaseold >> and the potential for if the council's not aware a holdover event where the tenant does not vacate the property in a timely manner for whatever reason good or bad that may be. So >> is that the 8.5 about tolling and

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correct those sections? >> Correct. >> Okay. So in the event eight years I think we said if that happened just say it takes a full two years or 10 years what happens I guess on the 11th year if there the

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tenants are there's no issue there does this expire this opportunity >> well I saw your your city attorney chiming in there but I think The the answer to that is we have a timeline with respect to

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when we are supposed to submit for site plan approval and then we have a timeline that we have to prosecute that site plan approval within. Um and again I might be talking over your your city attorney there.

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>> So I see submission is the key word >> years and a file. Yeah. So the the effective date is when both parties signed the agreement. The parties currently are the city of Cape Canaveral and then the current property owner, Miss Maize's um uh family's entity um

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because there has not been a um sale transaction completed between the McGiving Group and and Miss May. So, the way it would work, if council were to approve this agreement tonight, the agreement would be executed by the city, exe executed by um Miss May's Corporation, and then recorded against

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the land. That triggers then the 10-year time period, which is the development schedule, which is laid out in the agreement. The um develop the owner would have 10 years to file the site plan and other final development permit

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applications with the city. If they do not complete the filing within the 10-year time period, ei the party may terminate the agreement by providing written notice unless the part, you know, or the parties can extend the site plan submission deadline. Once the once

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the site plan is filed with the city, then um timely file, then the developer will have 24 months in which to obtain the final site plan approval or either party may terminate the agreement. And then generally at once site plan approval is completed developer has 24

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months after final site plan approval to submit plans for construction, building permit review and any compar um any other technical review requirements. So um that includes all not only the site plan as I mentioned earlier it includes concurrency review. So the concurrency

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application would have to be submitted to within those time periods because it's required by the code. So, the agreement lays out a very clear um and detailed um uh schedule for going through the permitting process.

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And there's a 10-year time period only because we've been advised that the um the current owner of the property has existing tenants. They're unsure whether the lease is um would would would end five years or a couple years or if the

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lease gets extended, it could extend eight years. So we had to address the time period based on current occupancy of um the existing building. Also once the agreement goes effective the property own is required to submit a list of existing tenants with an

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existing expiration date on the lease. So that information is on file. the city will be um you know monitoring that obviously with the owner um um and determining whether or not um you know that may impact the submission of the

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final uh site plan application. So it's all kind of laid out in the agreement. I left out a lot of stuff but I think that's the general development schedule. >> What is the normal time frame for that?

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you know, all of this to go on because we're looking at with these time frames that are defined in the contract, we're out to 2040 on this thing. >> So, and I'm going to tell you, I'm I'm

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not a huge fan of leaving things for the next council. You know what I'm saying? That's a long time and who knows what will happen. Um so what is a normal t uh time frame on a project uh city attorney from the site plan submission on

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normally I mean is it because this is a 10 year on the first step >> I mean it it depends I mean it depends on the existing condition of the property I mean that we're dealing with a different little slightly different situation with an ex existing building

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with existing tenants um if this was a vacant piece of property. I would imagine that the developer could get through the process in three or four years. >> Okay. So, um let's say it's an existing property. Just I'm just trying to get a feel of

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what's typical. Let's put it that way. Let's say it's an existing property that has no tenants or the tenants are going to vacate >> if if there were no tenants. >> Mhm. or if they were going to vacate.

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>> Um >> I think you're asking about this from the time of site plan submission when they submit it's 24 months. >> It can be up to 24. I mean the >> that's the same the contractor has to get mobilized. There's usually a two-month mobilization period and then

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20 to 22 months for construction. >> Okay. So we're so truly we're looking at a plan that goes out to 2040 >> versus 24 months if the building was

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available for development. That's what I was trying to determine. Thank you. Yeah, my understanding is that uh as the applicants explained obviously the existing tenants the first period there that 8.1 site plan submission deadline

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is really what's different about this that would give some sort of certainty of of the intentions. But everything else from that point of sub like if somebody submitted a site plan today this is not

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is this different than the normal from site plan submission and one of the things is what if the code changed and it became shorter period of time or longer does this agreement supersede those procedures?

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No, I mean the um some of the 24-month time period, some of that's consistent with the existing city code. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I I just want to weigh in as well with respect to the 10-year period. Again, that's based on the life of the

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tenants leases with a little bit of buffer there. With respect to the submission of the site plan, excuse me, once we have to submit the site plan within that 10-year period, we're prosecuting that, I think, as your city attorney indicated within the current

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time period that's allotted within your current city code. >> Uh, subsequent to that, once you have site plan approval, and I think this is an important point that may be being missed, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's a 2-year period subsequent to that that you can actually file for your

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building permit approval. Correct. >> Correct. And then there's a period of time that lasts even beyond that for you to prosecute your building permit, meaning starting to bring the building up out of the ground. So >> right, >> the comparison I think of 24 months if

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the property was vacant, shovel ready, ready to go. With all respect, I don't think that that's that your law as currently exists allotss for a slightly longer time than that. Not slightly, but the two-year

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window plus the uh the post period after the building permit approval. I I would generally agree with the councelor on that and um I would agree with the mayor that the really the issue the focus is the um site plan submittal deadline and

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that is due to a ten existing tenency issue >> and and one more thing that I wanted to bring up to uh council's point um if I could draw council's attention to section 33 the periodic review

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um the city has the right to inquire about the status of this project on a regular basis. So that includes the status of the tenants, the status of what we're trying to do with respect to our development approvals etc. So uh we want to I think we have been an open

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book and we want to continue to be that open book addressing the issues that come up as and when appropriate with respect to the technical development questions that have been raised namely through the site plan approval concurrency review process. when that

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time comes. >> Thank you. >> That you don't want to hear from us more than once a year. I see here >> for free. >> Once every 12 months. >> Call me anytime. >> I'm teasing. Thank you. Well, and and >> you know, if we did this with everything

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we ever developed, we'd have staff having a lot of extra time they have to spend following up on something that's going to be built 10 years from now or 14 years from now. >> You know, that's really and so as we look at the budget and efficiency and

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trying to look at all those things, this when we go that far out, that's followup we have to do to stay on top of it. And that's staff time, which staff time is money and it costs the citizens and taxpayers for us to do that. So, it's uh

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I know it's a different circumstance for you all with um with your tenants in there, but um that is money that our taxpayers literally it comes out of their pocket when staff has to do that. So, >> thank you.

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>> I had a bunch of questions. I appreciate you all. We we appreciate the inquiry. >> Council member Torres, >> and I'm not sure if this is a concern for us, but what would stop the uh developer from buying out the leases of the current tenants and start construction tomorrow or would we have a

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concern with that? >> Forgive me. I don't know if the question was directed to your legal counsel. I guess maybe the city attorney or >> I again I can't speak to the private lease arrangements that currently exist

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and whether or not there are buyout options etc etc. I'm sure the developers being very careful here and choosing their words carefully because there are existing leases on the property. >> Yeah. our ability to unilaterally

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acquire that leaseold interest it not not really permitted under law it's got to be it's a two-way street with respect to the tenant cooperating with respect to the buyout >> but I mean in the past people have gotten bought out of their leases to develop things just to speed the speed

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the process up >> sure it's a it's a legal possibility for sure however it's a two-way street >> and it. I mean, still from that site plan submission, theoretically they would have they could apply sooner if

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that was their desire. I'm reading an 8.5 to get I think closer to council member Shoryak and the city attorney's statement. It's talking about uh there will be a list of tenants that will be provide uh with

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documentation evidencing the expiration date of each lease or other occupancy agreement. What is that exactly? I guess what would the instrument or be? >> Um, yeah, in so far as the questions

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directed at us, it's it's simply again attempting to be an open book, sharing with the city, uh, so that you don't simply have to rely on the representations that we're making verbally here tonight, providing you with the backup documentation necessary to know that we do actually have tenants in the premises that do have a valid

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leaseold and it is for the term that we specified. Thank >> Yeah, thank you. I I think that's helpful. My my um because it's and I understand the circumstance because it's so far out. I see that the

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opportunity desired to to build this is is really what's happening. But I I'm hearing that it's nonbinding. And so my question is what why could this I guess what's the risk

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what risk does this eliminate if it's nonbinding >> um >> either one forgive me attorney Gorganise I'll maybe start and have you weigh back in but the instrument is binding with

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respect to the um provisions as provided, namely uh as I indicated earlier, confirmation that we're able to build when we go to submit our site plan, >> the six-story facility that's proposed

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uh as evidenced under the concept plan that's attached to the development agreement. >> So that again is the principal ask of the development agreement of the city and and that's what I was alluding to earlier. Um otherwise the conceptual plan also indicates matters like the

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footprint, the envelope, the setback and the stepbacks. Um >> so as I think I heard your city attorney say, the concept plan and the development agreement bind the city to this blueprint.

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So we still have to submit for site plan approval within the time frames that are laid out in the instrument and prosecute that site plan approval within a timely manner and subsequently process our building permits within a timely manner. Uh I hope that answers your question.

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>> It does. Thank you. I think so today and we I know coach changed uh to go in that economic overlay district and build if it was 45 ft. There's no I think community appearance board. What

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I guess what can't you build to 65 ft per the code the overlay without I mean normal site plan approval >> with the city council's approval >> but that's always been the case. I mean, no, community appearance board, I guess,

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made recommendations and weighed in on that. >> No, the the other process was community appearance board as part of aesthetic review would consider uh building height extensions above 45 ft. And it was an aesthetic review um approval process,

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but that did not even address all of the other requirements on site plan review and all of that. I mean the CAB had a very limited narrow jurisdiction. >> Okay. So by right 45 ft there this

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being one of the main motives that this wouldn't have as much weight if the desire was to build 45 ft or needed necessarily. I heard step back or stepbacks in >> I do have the way that the code is written now. that increased building heights above

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four stories or 45 ft may be proposed and considered up to six stories or 65 ft if approved by the city council in conjunction with a site plan approval and height mitigation measures may be required by the city council. So it's

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not a buy right, it's a hey, you come to city council and they might require that you have height mitigation measures if they choose to. So, we're making a decision today in 2026 for >> of the height, correct? >> A height that normally a future council

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would approve. >> Correct. That's one of the large reasons they're pursuing the development agreement is for that height. >> McKibben Group, beautiful work. I compliment and absolutely uh the the things that I our council

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whether it be traffic storm water we're approving we know that future future concurrency um is still going to have to be met and those are views. So any concerns about that that's not within our view today. If our wastewater

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treatment plant or any issues there I I understand that the mixed use that Mr. McKibben brought up with the hotel uh or the restaurant as well. Is it a desire to be strictly a

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hotel? I know it's early, but or is there going to be because I I mean that's two separate businesses. One >> that that >> Yeah, just adding a hotel. >> Mostly what we're focused on is we're making an investment now so we can have

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a future project. What we don't want is to not have that optionality in the future and now we own potentially an office building that we can't redevelop. That's the risk we're trying to mi mitigate. The conceptual plan we've presented is one that we can live with.

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We believe will be viable. Um but ultimately eight years down the road, who knows? Maybe hospitality is a bad use and maybe we don't move forward with that plan if it's not economical at that time. But to go back to the mixeduse

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component, um, again, we're going to because the time horizon is so long, it's really hard to to kind of guess uh too much, but you know, we're going to look at the best use, what's going to be welcomed in the community, if it has a restaurant component. Um, the the

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concept plan we have technically does have the FnB component, but whether it's an independent brand or the exact concept that that it is, you know, that's still to be decided. Thank you. I can say, you know, because 45 ft that's largely by right. The

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the addition of the restaurant under that aesthetic review that CAB did um certainly gives a a stronger uh position for the community and I would assume you

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would have to give up rooms. So, I don't know how many room 150 or whatever the rooms are. That would be a tradeoff. So, if you dedicate a floor Mhm. >> to a restaurant that's less rooms, and I

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know the the math might be different. Is that the right way to think of it? Is if there's five stories for rooms and one story for >> Yeah. Ultimately, we're excuse >> we've got to meet 150 rooms. We got to

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meet the parking requirement. >> Um those are minimums in the code. So, we've got to meet those in one way or another. And then you know the question is frankly what is left um in terms of additional program space and what what

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can be economically included within that for the Hilton Garden in we had uh plenty of space there to to get a restaurant great outdoor experience um have a full-fledged you know concept that we thought would be wellreceived. I think we have enough space and we do have that programmed into our conceptual

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plan. Um, again, all the details are not worked out. Uh, but generally speaking, we try to build to the top level with our hotels. Um, and if we think another restaurant concept is going to be successful, we're going to want to build another restaurant concept. So, thank you. I think we've crossed over a

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thousand rooms in the city of Cape Canaveral. The residents, the the traffic that comes along with it, the success of the the port and naturally this being a destination, it has brought a lot of strain and and concern from what the city was 20 25 years ago. But

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we recognize the economic overlay district. I can tell you that when restaurants are a part of it, I think some have taken advantage of that kind of top floor. Um, that's ultimately, I think, your decision. But to make a

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decision for what would be built in 2040 on a council that everybody up here by term limits would not be here, we take that seriously. And I think uh I'm going to that date and saying, well, why' you do that? And at concept,

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it's hard to see it by its name. It's just like it's hard for you to predict what you're able to do. it's hard for us to predict whether or not that's going to be a good decision. And so, uh, we're working through it and I know that, uh,

401
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when you meet all those minimums, you don't necessarily have the room, but as a community stakeholder, and thank you for your comments about investing and partnering in the community. I think that uh those that mixed juice component

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uh gives the average resident who lives here at least an option to it would be rare for a resident to book a hotel room and uh we we've really taken a beating uh from tourism in our community and you're responding to the market

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naturally. We've lost our school. We've lost our homestead. Our base traffic is getting worse. the aquarium we're all excited about, but we understand that's going to probably add another night and and increase that with a very thriving

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Airbnb market. Uh, so those are my comments. To sum up, we are looking at a piece of property that if we did nothing, a future council

405
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could potentially vote this through. But if we vote it through, a future council could not undo it. They would have to live with our decision and there and it is binding. I'm learning and

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understanding. So is that right? The agreement is a binding legal instrument and >> that would a future council if it meets concurrency and the things we talked about >> the city council at that time would have to determine whether it complies with

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the city code when it goes through the final site plan approval process. as the ag the the legal instrument the development agreement with the attached concept plan that's a binding legal instrument and um it lays out the blueprint

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to proceed with all the final development permit applications at a future date and at the future date the planning and zoning board and the city council will have to review the engineering plans for compliance with um all existing codes at that time and

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adjustments will have to be made to comply with the code. >> What are reasons the code would say 65 is not allowed? >> That's the way the code has been since the EEOD was adopted.

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>> So, is there any reason 65 ft would not be permitted or have we historically ever seen 65 ft? When it comes to the other existing hotels that have been built in the last 1015 years, they've

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all got they've all gotten 65 foot height approvals. >> I think that in the instance of a project getting conceptual development agreement approval and then later on them going for a site plan approval, the height would not generally be the thing

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that makes a site plan get rejected. It would be other things like the concurrency. So I think to get to the root of your question, the the height would very typically be the thing that makes a site plan get rejected later if you gave that approval. Now >> I think I understand that. I guess the

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point I'm making is is >> if there's no reason well history is a good predictor of the future that 65 or any criteria that we would apply that would stop uh or address an issue and say 45 foots approved. for these

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reasons, fill in the blank, 65 ft is not allowed, then we really aren't making that decision. That decision by the code, if I understand, is is made for us. It's a ceremonial

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approval that there's not a reason why 65 ft. And maybe I missed your point. There is the distinction that a current council or future council could require height mitigation. So that would be the only kind of condition and that's why it

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goes through a separate approval is because in certain instances you may say hey we'd like to have a step back to where it's not as tall close to the street or something like that. So the code allows for the approval conditioned upon height mitigation but more often

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than not historically the council has said that there's not a need for height mitigation or it would be the planning and zoning board CAB that height mitigation has not really been something that's historically been required but that is the only thing that would hold up a height approval like that

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>> and that's what I I don't think I fully understand is why when a circumstance of height mitigation would be needed I think if there was another maybe they there was a they were able to develop closer to the road. That's >> yeah, I think it would be a lot of

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instances like that and that's probably why probably why it hasn't been required. But it all goes down to wanting it to be a design that's in alignment with the design guidelines of the EOD. And there's never been an instance in which the board or the

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deciding party said, "Hey, this is inongruent. We're not going to approve it. it's been approved. >> It was essentially a design approval >> with the CAB, but that approval was just a paper approval, frankly, because um it

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required a building permit within one year and it was being the aesthetic design was being in some cases considered so prematurely. It was ridiculous, frankly, if I can be frank. um because they didn't even they weren't even didn't have jurisdiction to even

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consider a concept plan or you know site plan approval in conjunction with the with the aesthetic height design request. So this process um considers the 65- ft height um

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request as part of the concept plan. So you are seeing far more detail and and uh than the CAB um and the CAB's approval was was a much different like design type situation.

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So, um, at the end of at the end of the day, um, mayor, this this is, um, a binding binding development binding development agreement that approves a concept plan, a blue blueprint, including the 65- ft

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height um, requirement and um, you know, the rest of the process um, has to be complied with at a later date. So while we have more information than CAB had the if I understand our senior planner it wouldn't be until the

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concurrency that even any scenario that we could we wouldn't have enough information today to address what might be a future height concern but it also would allow a future council to still address use height mitigation if there

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were valid. the code has some binding that they could address even though we approved this because it >> I think if this was a normal site plan process that would be the case but in the instance of coming to an agreement

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on this development agreement the development agreement does expressly say that hey you can have 65 ft. though unless that condition is added. The way that I read the development agreement, you guys would be giving that authority and the 65 ft couldn't be taken away. If

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the site plan were to get rejected 10 years down the line, it would be for a different reason. That wouldn't really be much of a discussion. >> Not sure I can understand that last comment, but the the 65 ft height approval is in conjunction with a hotel.

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If the if this if this hotel didn't proceed, there would not be a 65 foot height approval for any other development project. It's for the proposed hotel. >> Mr. McKibben, in the event or anyone that a hotel I think you are you

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entirely in the hospitality hotel business or do you have other types of developments? >> 97%. I we do have maybe 10 restaurant concepts. Um we have some residential buildings but the vast majority of our

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business is hospitality. >> Okay. >> To to the question though to emphasize what your uh legal counsel said that the height is tied to this concept plan. This concept plan contemplates a hotel. So in so far as the concern that in so

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far as the concern is that we are asking for a 65- ft approval for whatever will be built there. That is not what we are requesting. Furthermore, I I think I I just wanted to clarify. I think I heard that there has not been a circumstance

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with respect to any of the hotels be built within say the last 5 to seven years where the 65 ft limitation has been denied. that that would be correct. >> Okay. >> So, in so far as we're evaluating the risk that we're asking the city to

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approve tonight, >> you know, is is a 65 ft hotel really worth >> um denial of the application. I would >> No, I thank you. >> Plus, mayor, I just need to just make sure the record is clear on it that the

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development agreement does address under built section six building elevations. There there are building elevations that are attached. And it says further other aspects of the building facade and roof line signage, height mitigation measures, color scheme and architectural

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features depicted on the buildings may be required and adjusted during the city's final review and approval procedures to satisfy the requirements of the code. >> Six. You said >> six. Yes. So there is an express acknowledgement that you know 65 foot

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height yes is approved. building elevations from a conceptual level are attached to the agreement. But when that final site plan comes there before the city council in the future, it will have um as required under the site plan

439
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ordinance final elevations and at that time the city reserves that other other aspects of the building facade and roof lines it's and height mitigation measures etc can be required at that time during the approval process. >> Excellent. Thank you. That's helpful.

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Council member Willis. >> Uh, this question is for Connor and possibly the city attorney. Other than the fact that the other property that I'm referencing is vacant. >> Mhm. >> Is there any substantive difference

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between wave district and this possibility? >> They they were done through two different mechanisms of the code. Um, so this is through the conceptual plan and development agreement. The Waves district was done through Anthony, you

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may have to check my wording. Is it vacation resort campus? Uh a different sort of master development agreement framework. >> It was a um port of I think >> port of Yeah. Yeah. Port of port of call facility. So yeah, it's two different

443
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frameworks and they are you know when when these folks came to us they did kind of use that as one of their templates because it was the precedent that you know the council had said of you know hey this is a development agreement framework we've used but it is two very different things but they are

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similar in that with Waves district and with this project the applicants still have to come back for site of plan approval afterward >> but it's substantively the same thing. It's two different code sections, but they're similar in that they both have to come back for site plan. Yeah.

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Procedurally, they're similar. >> Yeah. In term procedurally and in terms of when the porttool facility was approved for for the Wave Village, um it contains conceptual um plans that were attached to the agreement, blueprints,

446
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so to speak, that you know, the the property owner still has to come back for all the final approvals. But in that agreement, the 65- foot height was was included in in memorialized in that agreement and the development schedule and uh port call is a little bit

447
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substantively different and that the port of call facility uh provisions under the city code require um a mix of uh port of call allowed uses. So that it's more of a a mixeduse

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project with a port of call umbrella designation over it. >> I'm going to ask something and so I know we have a 150 room minimum. >> Yes sir. >> And I heard Mr. McKibben talk about hey

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trying to meet that they're they're um how they do their business and use the space. I firmly believe that that they're have a natural vested interest to to you to use it and optimize it, but I'm just talking openly here. I would hate to think that if the math worked

450
02:05:48.639 --> 02:06:03.840
for them to offer a mixed use and they were excited about it and they could do it, but it was because of this 150 room minimum that they could not. >> The contract >> the contract that they provided us has

451
02:06:03.840 --> 02:06:20.320
162 rooms just FY. Okay. And and that might be the case that there's never a scenario where a mixed use would ever make sense. And I'm not going down that path, but I would hate to think that well, we would, but after we apply the 150, there's no space. I if this

452
02:06:20.320 --> 02:06:36.000
agreement, for example, like like you said, the market is thriving for some use that this community would do well and they had an opportunity to add that use and it was a win-win that was complimentary for the residents. Could this agreement have a

453
02:06:36.000 --> 02:06:52.239
simple statement that would give them the option if they chose to uh reduce the minimum um for for another use or would that open up can of worms? I'm not thinking about

454
02:06:52.239 --> 02:07:08.719
that. But does that make sense? You'd hate for the the intent of the 150 rooms written many years ago. Uh today we've we've seen a lot of rooms added. This might be a moot

455
02:07:08.719 --> 02:07:28.239
point. I'm not in the the know on how all of it works, but I I just looking at the policy. Would that option for them cause any issues for the city or do we want to keep a minimum of a

456
02:07:28.239 --> 02:07:46.639
150? could I don't how many rooms per floor usually I'm just thinking I could speak real quick to that point absolutely well um first if I could express that the current conceptual plan we have has

457
02:07:46.639 --> 02:08:04.320
incorporated a food and beverage program just as part of the the conceptual design but we also have 12 rooms over that 150 um requirement which is those That area alone would be more than

458
02:08:04.320 --> 02:08:21.520
enough to provide a food and beverage commercial operation as big as the one that we did next door at the Hilton Garden Inn. So we I can't see a world where we we wouldn't be able to do that if we chose to and stay within the 150 room requirement.

459
02:08:21.520 --> 02:08:38.719
>> I appreciate it. >> Yes. Thank one more thing I'll just add. Uh I'm new uh to Cape Canaveral, but what I've heard previously is um prior prior city councils uh there was smaller hotels and disrepair and there was a

460
02:08:38.719 --> 02:08:55.119
feeling that requiring a larger threshold would bring in more quality developers and operators and that was the genesis behind kind of this 150key metric. Um, I would say our average hotel is around 130 uh for the type of

461
02:08:55.119 --> 02:09:12.480
hotels that we do. But again, I believe that was the genesis and um seems like everybody's been able to comply with it so far. So, appreciate that. That's my understanding as well. And going back through the the minutes and reading those uh back in I think 80s 90s I I

462
02:09:12.480 --> 02:09:30.239
don't know. But that's my understanding as well. I just think that every room key is another drain, another toilet. And if the math worked in their business model where it's like we we want to go to a market

463
02:09:30.239 --> 02:09:48.239
of bigger rooms or more spacious, you know, being able to use the property, it could be a winwin for all to address the capacity, the cars on the road. It's if the market opened up to say you're going to have 20 rooms on where you but actually no

464
02:09:48.239 --> 02:10:04.159
it's these now we're only going to do 10 we cut it in half because it works not forcing anything not binding I'm looking us going you can't do that in Cape Canaveral you can't even reduce it because that was the intent and we're in a circumstance where maybe reduction is

465
02:10:04.159 --> 02:10:20.320
something we should start looking at um without giving up the at the time the little hotel motel that were popping up everywhere four six rooms and so city attorney or anyone if could speak on that is this agreement the type time to

466
02:10:20.320 --> 02:10:37.199
address that is if if so >> I think you're talking about a code a code change >> okay >> because the city code as you indicated mayor requires a minimum of 150 >> y >> and the more recent hotels have had to comply with that

467
02:10:37.199 --> 02:10:52.719
>> I understand So perhaps maybe the hotels are bigger than what they originally wanted to develop. I don't know. But um there is that code requirement that minimum threshold 150 units. >> And I had one question in regards to

468
02:10:52.719 --> 02:11:08.159
that, Mr. Mayor. Um city attorney on the econ economic opportunity overlay district. Um our island right now is 90% built out. Is there an end date to that? I know it

469
02:11:08.159 --> 02:11:25.280
was put into place uh to work along with our CRA. I believe is when or actually it was before the CRA quite a time >> right around that time period. >> Um so how does that work you know because

470
02:11:25.280 --> 02:11:40.880
at some point you know we're getting you know built to to capacity or could be. So, how does that work as far as that document? Is it just never ending?

471
02:11:40.880 --> 02:11:58.000
>> Yeah, it's a unless unless otherwise modified or repealed by the city council in the future, it is a zoning overlay district. So, it's a zoning code. >> Thank you. >> Get a public comment. Councilor, any

472
02:11:58.000 --> 02:12:14.000
comments here anymore? Council member Troy, >> I just think this is way too early for this. I hate to burden a council 6, 8, 10 years from now with our decision. This year, we're burdened with dealing with cleaning up the mess of prior councils who spent all the city's money

473
02:12:14.000 --> 02:12:34.239
on whatever. And now we have to clean it up. And I hate to do that to the future council. Got a familiar name on the card. Haven't spot him, but is this Mayor Cape? Are you with us today? Please come forward from Cocoa Beach. Thank you for joining

474
02:12:34.239 --> 02:12:51.280
us. >> How's it going, guys? Not not to butt in on your on your politics here. I know uh I got my own in my city, but um I I am a home or I I own uh many properties here in Canaveral. Uh I have six long-term

475
02:12:51.280 --> 02:13:07.360
rentals. Uh so property tax is also a concern of mine as well. Uh that being said, um I understand the position of these guys wanting to to do a and I don't know them by the way, but uh I understand business. I understand

476
02:13:07.360 --> 02:13:22.719
investments and uh this is a really important project I think for them to to move forward. Um, the reason that I decided to to butt in is because thinking about my city as well, uh, the highest and best use of of properties,

477
02:13:22.719 --> 02:13:37.280
uh, an office building on A1A in the middle of a a bunch of hotels is not the highest and best use of that property in my opinion. Uh, I don't think that you're going to see a lot of good redevelopment on that property unless somebody with resources buys it. It's

478
02:13:37.280 --> 02:13:53.199
going to be it. I'm not to to say it's not it's not the best looking property in your area, but I think if you had an entity that had good funds to rebuild it, it could be uh you know an asset or or something uh to beautify your city.

479
02:13:53.199 --> 02:14:11.760
Uh I also think depending on uh the way our taxes are going here in the city, um it it is a potential to to help with the the tax problems that you guys have as well uh with, you know, creating much

480
02:14:11.760 --> 02:14:28.960
larger tax base for the for the city and for my future investments as well. Anything you could do to keep taxes down would be appreciated and something that doesn't affect the residents. One thing is it it is a six, you know, story building, but in the midst of another a bunch of six-story buildings. Another

481
02:14:28.960 --> 02:14:44.800
thing to think of, it's away from a bunch of residential communities. So, it's not like it's impacting residents as much. In my opinion, I see a benefit uh for for taxes and for beautifification of your city to to go forward with with something like this. >> Thank you.

482
02:14:44.800 --> 02:15:01.199
>> And it you're representing yourself. Thank you for investing in Cape Canaveral. did not know that about you and uh speaking as a as a taxpayer and a property owner and serving our good friends down in Cocoa Beach. Thank you for joining us today in those comments. Uh since we opened it up, if anyone else

483
02:15:01.199 --> 02:15:27.119
wants to comment, I just want to offer this time. Council, we've worked through it. How what's how are we how we doing? Okay. Well, if you want to talk through anything you're >> thinking it'll >> Yeah.

484
02:15:27.119 --> 02:15:46.880
>> All right. I move that we decide on the approval of this development agreement and conceptual site plan. Um, one way or the other. That's my motion. point of >> feel a little better.

485
02:15:46.880 --> 02:16:04.000
>> It's more than what we've accomplished, >> but I'm not sure. It's where we >> That's that's that's great direction to the city council. >> Not necessary to be put in the form of >> Well, I'll I'll accept any suggestions if we can get this on the table.

486
02:16:04.000 --> 02:16:20.480
>> Sounds like you want to call the question. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, uh, >> do we still need a motion? >> I don't think we >> have a motion. >> Well, is is council ready to to take a

487
02:16:20.480 --> 02:16:33.599
vote on this? I mean, maybe I'm being premature. >> No, we we've certainly given it time. I I think um >> Okay, >> Don, you look like you're ready to >> to I I'll tell you just my my thoughts. What I've learned about this and after

488
02:16:33.599 --> 02:16:52.639
reviewing is that if a future council that our economic overlay district is zoning district that's here as mayor uh pro Tim Jackson they are pursuing a a specific hotel project which is the only

489
02:16:52.639 --> 02:17:09.519
re uh type of developments that's allowed to go 65 ft. Historically, these have been all approved. There's not a strong compelling reason to ever deny other than some height mitigation

490
02:17:09.519 --> 02:17:25.519
based on some scenarios we haven't observed. That ability is under section six still there for a future council. That's really what I was thinking is I don't want a a cons a a valid concern that a future council could not make a

491
02:17:25.519 --> 02:17:43.599
decision on. And if uh we vote this today, there will be a 10-year period to to submit site plans, which is a couple year buffer roughly after the tenants are gone. and the the rest of the

492
02:17:43.599 --> 02:18:00.000
sequence procedures are spelled out which is consistent with our code site plan submission. There's no different there. Um and in those approvals, uh that's where the attention to detail and concurrency and future storm water or

493
02:18:00.000 --> 02:18:15.760
traffic issues will be addressed. In no way are we saying it's going to be okay, then they're going to have to go through the same hurdles. And if it happens early, if a legal reason a lease contract goes out, I don't think that changes anything here either. We're

494
02:18:15.760 --> 02:18:31.519
we're approvening. I think um in more recognizing what our code allows uh if anything. So, I'm ready to move forward. >> I'll make a motion to approve the uh

495
02:18:31.519 --> 02:18:50.399
item agenda item 9.1. Seconded. >> Got a motion by council member Willis and a second by council member King. Now that we have a formal motion and the direction that is being pursued, is

496
02:18:50.399 --> 02:19:06.880
there any discussion or thoughts? I think council member Shoryak you had some concerns and um >> my my concern if they were going to build the hotel right away. Okay. But I just again I don't want to burden the future council with our decisions because we're kind of going through that

497
02:19:06.880 --> 02:19:22.399
now ourselves. >> No one can attend that option. >> I I guess I wouldn't disagree with you. I'm not sure how we're burdening them after working through it. Maybe I'm thinking about >> obligating them to something that Yeah, that's maybe poor choice of words. I

498
02:19:22.399 --> 02:19:40.639
were obligating them to >> I'm with you. in 2026 that it might not happen in 2033 or 2035, whenever when things could change. And when I look at it, I'm not sure that

499
02:19:40.639 --> 02:20:02.960
anything could change that would stop. Every decision we make has some possibility of impacting a future council. So I mean, you know, is it one year or is it 10 years? >> Mhm.

500
02:20:02.960 --> 02:20:32.000
>> But we still have to make a property rights decision. Any further discussion? Well, I'm just looking at the the other property that's mentioned tonight that that is their other property and the tax bill on it for 2025 was around $21,000.

501
02:20:32.000 --> 02:20:49.600
I have no idea why. Probably because it wasn't finished being a hotel, but I look at the total amount of the hotels and that concerns me, you know, but regardless, that's something out of our hands. Um, but I'm I'm

502
02:20:49.600 --> 02:21:08.319
along the lines of what council member Shoryak says because this is so far out. I mean, it is so far out and it's a binding legal agreement. >> So, the attorney, what could change that would prevent this if the zoning

503
02:21:08.319 --> 02:21:24.720
changed? Is that a risk for the developers and applicants that the future council changed the zoning? Um, that's a good point, mayor. Yes, it would be a risk uh for the property owner, but also be a risk for the city. >> I understand that side as well. And

504
02:21:24.720 --> 02:21:39.840
that's why I I guess I'm I'm not I'm I'm not sure we can change it without substantial risk in this in today's environment with with the state law and our code the way it

505
02:21:39.840 --> 02:21:56.319
is. Um, but I'll leave that up to our city attorney. And I'm having a hard time seeing that my clear and where I gain a lot of confidence is I openly admit learning about our wastewater. I have

506
02:21:56.319 --> 02:22:12.479
concerns there today. But that I mean so I would say if if there is a desire to build it soon they would be uh have a vested interest to to do that because uh I have a reason to believe it's only

507
02:22:12.479 --> 02:22:26.399
going to grow and those issues are going to have to be addressed and uh I'm not sure so that future council would have the full power to address I think those valid environmental

508
02:22:26.399 --> 02:22:46.000
um public safety issues. Um, but I'm I'm I think we all feel the same way. Um, and we're not taking that away, I don't think. >> Council member King, I know you seconded

509
02:22:46.000 --> 02:23:01.920
the motion. That is not necessarily uh, you know, in for or against, but how are you feeling about it? >> I'll let you know when I vote. >> That sounds wonderful. I love the suspense. >> Okay. Well, is there any further

510
02:23:01.920 --> 02:23:14.880
discussion? >> None here. >> Sounds good. Thank you all and thank you again for working through this with us. >> City clerk, please call the role to approve the development agreement and the conceptual site plan.

511
02:23:14.880 --> 02:23:32.240
>> Yes. Okay. Um, mayor prom Jackson or >> council member King >> against. Mayor Morrison >> for. >> Council member Shyak >> against

512
02:23:32.240 --> 02:23:52.399
>> and council member Wis >> for you. >> Let the record show the item passes three two. Thank you very much. We we wish you the best of luck. >> Let's take a quick recess if if that's

513
02:23:52.399 --> 02:24:22.840
okay, council. That was a long run. Mhm. >> That's the first time I think we've taken that up and I made our first. >> Wow. >> I like that's exactly what Yeah.

514
02:35:22.160 --> 02:42:08.479
See it does. The feedback's not uh I think no he's What's that? >> Uh, yeah, I think we're okay. All right, call the meeting back to order.

515
02:42:08.479 --> 02:42:26.160
It is 8:42 p.m. We are now on to item 9.2 titled River Breeze Residential Planned Unit development petitioner BNB Enterprises of Cape Canaveral, Florida. This time, same routine with our

516
02:42:26.160 --> 02:42:41.600
>> director and our dynamic duo over there. We'll >> we have a fan. >> I'll defer to them. >> We have a lot of fans now. >> I'm not talking about personally speaking. >> Okay. Council. So, this is a motion to consider a

517
02:42:41.600 --> 02:42:59.200
plinary development plan application in accordance with section 11042B of city code for a residential planned unit development or RPUD at 6419 North Atlantic Avenue and 260 Cape Shores Circle. The R RPUD proposes 39

518
02:42:59.200 --> 02:43:16.080
single family uh dwelling units and three common tracks on 4.97 acres under the name River Breeze. This area is also now currently uh the uh location where Aerial Adventures is located for reference point. Um the applicant BNB uh

519
02:43:16.080 --> 02:43:33.040
Enterprises of Cape Canaveral LLC has submitted an application for a preliminary development plan review and a tenative zoning designation for the River Breeze RPUD. The request seeks authorization to construct, as I said, a 39 single family residential units and three common tracks on 4.97 acres. The

520
02:43:33.040 --> 02:43:49.439
submitt represents a proposed density of approximately 7.84 units per acre, which complies with the maximum density threshold of 15 units per acre permitted under ordinance number 072025. Um, the application uses flexible development provisions of the city's

521
02:43:49.439 --> 02:44:03.920
updated RPD regulations requesting specific modifications that include reduced lot sizes ranging from 3,400 ft to about uh 4,100 ft, reduced lot widths of 36 feet, reduced interior setbacks of 0 feet on many of the lots, and building

522
02:44:03.920 --> 02:44:19.600
overhangs ranging from 2 to 5 feet. Um, I think something interesting and worth noting to talk about with this project, you know, for a while now in Cape Canaveral, we've been looking to try and enhance the resiliency of our built environment and with the private property elements of our community,

523
02:44:19.600 --> 02:44:36.160
especially with single family housing. So, this project is striving to construct resilient housing units with u unique floodable first floors which are intended to protect occupants on the second and third floor living spaces from something like a dangerous hurricane storm surge. That's something we've been looking to have in the

524
02:44:36.160 --> 02:44:51.359
community for quite a while now and incorporating uh hardened building techniques. And the project team has indicated that these units uh are going to be designed to withstand category 5 hurricane wind speeds um ba and are based on a successful realworld proven

525
02:44:51.359 --> 02:45:07.760
waterfront single family residential unit development in Cortez, Florida that did survive several major hurricanes on that coast. The application was properly noticed in accordance with city code uh within 500 ft and based on the findings in fact demonstrated compliance with review

526
02:45:07.760 --> 02:45:23.920
criteria outlined in section 110 4425 of ordinance number 072025 uh city staff recommends that city council approve the riverb RPUD plary development plan and additionally just for the council's information at the July 1st 2026 planning and zoning board

527
02:45:23.920 --> 02:45:40.399
meeting board members unanimously voted to recommend that city council approve the river breeze rpud D plenary development plan as written. These recommendations are ground in the applicant's current submitt which is consistent with the goals of the city of Cape Canal's comprehensive plan mitigating environmental and traffic impacts and providing highquality

528
02:45:40.399 --> 02:45:56.960
residences and amenities. Before I hand it back to council, I also want the want to let you know the applicant team is here so they can be interviewed by you if you'd like. And I'm also going to hand it off to Connor really quickly to better explain the RPUD because I believe this is the first time council is seeing such a method or such a procedure.

529
02:45:56.960 --> 02:46:12.960
>> Yes, correct. So, this is very important that we are informed based off of ordinance 072025, which is an ordinance that you all approved last year. Um, we've had RPUDs, residential planned unit developments on

530
02:46:12.960 --> 02:46:29.760
the books as an option for a while, but they had never been acted upon. A big reason why was because the minimum acreage was 10, and part of the ordinance that you all passed last year lowered that down to four acres. Um, but for the most part, the structure stayed

531
02:46:29.760 --> 02:46:46.319
similar, but there were a lot of things that changed. Uh, so it's always good to reference ordinance 072025 to make sure you have the most up-to-date code. In general, a residential plan unit development is supposed to provide a development that has unique development

532
02:46:46.319 --> 02:47:03.600
standards and requirements uh as you know recommended by the city. So it's intended to provide flexibility, desirable land use patterns and developments, create a sense of place, community or neighborhood identity, uh really reach that higher level of design

533
02:47:03.600 --> 02:47:22.479
and innovation. And in doing that, uh a lot of the times there are things afforded in terms of deviations like lot size setbacks um or bulk zoning where things are more clustered than they would have been according to our normal zoning code. So the developer, you know,

534
02:47:22.479 --> 02:47:38.960
has a right to develop this property, but they chose this route because they had a more inventive route for what they wanted to do. Uh, you know, they potentially could have even stacked a greater number of units if it was done a certain way in a multifamily style, but

535
02:47:38.960 --> 02:47:54.479
they chose this uh, you know, dense single family development that has individuallyowned small single family home lots that are three stories. When we're reviewing a residential planned unit development, the code provides a

536
02:47:54.479 --> 02:48:11.600
number of finding effects that are supposed to be looked at when you're when you're checking it out. And that's in the code in section 1104225, but it's also included within your staff report and that we have answered those

537
02:48:11.600 --> 02:48:26.720
finding effects for you so that you have some rough guidelines on, you know, staff's interpretation of the review criteria. So, you know, those are things like degree of departure from the surrounding residential areas, which is part A,

538
02:48:26.720 --> 02:48:42.399
compatibility with the surroundings, which is part B, prevention of erosion and degrading of surrounding areas, but similar to the uh hotel that you guys all just looked at, this application is doing what is called a preliminary

539
02:48:42.399 --> 02:48:58.720
development plan. Uh that is an option that is provided by the code. Um and it has already gone to the planning and zoning board, but you all are looking at it through that lens with an understanding that they would have to come back to you for their final

540
02:48:58.720 --> 02:49:12.880
development plan where they would have their fully engineered documents. They would have to do their full platting. So the division of land because right now it is two parcels of land that they would end up having as fe simple divided

541
02:49:12.880 --> 02:49:30.240
lots. So the things like concurrency and uh platting and the final engineering review would be done during that final development plan. So this is the first time that you guys are looking at this but it would not be the last time that

542
02:49:30.240 --> 02:49:47.200
you are looking at it. Um, that being said, you know, this preliminary development plan is somewhat binding in that it charts the course for what the final development plan will look like. So, we are here if you have questions. The applicants are here as well, but this is something that we haven't

543
02:49:47.200 --> 02:50:03.120
necessarily gone through in the city before with it being a residential planned unit development. So, what that means is that you guys do have the flexibility to request certain modifications as more of a negotiated back and forth. That is all.

544
02:50:03.120 --> 02:50:18.000
>> Thank you. City manager, city attorney, any comments further than what we heard from our team? >> The only the only additional comment I want to make is that um the RPUD is a reszoning of land process. So this is

545
02:50:18.000 --> 02:50:34.160
just the first step in going forward in the reszoning of the land. And the code requires, as Connor said, a preliminary development plan to be submitted first and foremost for review by council. And that serves as the road map to then

546
02:50:34.160 --> 02:50:51.520
proceed with the final development plan application, which includes the reszoning of the property, site plan approval, uh concurrency. Um, in this case, it's probably going to be a comprehensive plan, future land use map amendment. So, this this is a you know,

547
02:50:51.520 --> 02:51:07.840
one step in a multi-step process, and I just wanted to note that that for the record. >> Thank you, city manager. >> Uh, no comments this evening. >> Council, I don't know if the applicant desires to speak. If so, do we have any questions before or do we want to go

548
02:51:07.840 --> 02:51:24.240
ahead and hear from Mr. Bogger? >> Please proceed. I'm Bob, >> my sons of the property. Uh we purchased this in uh November uh 2012. Uh right after the recession. Uh it was eight

549
02:51:24.240 --> 02:51:40.319
lots. It's one lot now. We sold off. Uh it was 8 1/2 acres. We sold down to three and a half and we put the uh one and a half acres back under contract. That is the aerial venture. that makes

550
02:51:40.319 --> 02:51:58.080
the uh just shy or 5 acres u of the land. We looked at this uh 50 ways to Sunday on how to develop it. Uh when we first bought it uh uh we were contacted by Capeshor's attorney informing us that

551
02:51:58.080 --> 02:52:15.520
there was a private road and we could not use it. I looked at it in great detail and the fact is Capeshore Circle is a private road. There's two owners. It's the Zale family up front to Kaz uh uh the commercial piece. I bought an

552
02:52:15.520 --> 02:52:31.920
easement from them because I was before this council a long time ago when we were going to do a Cumberleman Farms and then we moved it where are we? Moved it down here and and it worked out for everybody. So,

553
02:52:31.920 --> 02:52:47.520
uh um I disagreed with the uh Cape Shore attorney, but what I said is we can litigate it or we can try to work around it. So, I choose to work around it. Why I thought I had a right is uh uh in

554
02:52:47.520 --> 02:53:02.880
state of Florida, you cannot uh uh sell off land and not have an access. So there was three lots that since 1943 had ex access off Cape Shores Circle and so

555
02:53:02.880 --> 02:53:20.000
when they developed Cape Shores uh uh the developer allowed that to continue. Now there was no written agreement but the uh state law does not let you uh uh take access away from people. It's just

556
02:53:20.000 --> 02:53:37.520
impossible to do. The second reason is there's a a law called prescriptive easements where you're adverse and they notified the various owners. They actually sent me a letter that this is a letter that in ' 83 we blocked it and we've been adverse and everybody in

557
02:53:37.520 --> 02:53:54.640
their brother has told me it's private. That's the definition of prescriptive easements. If you go 23 years and it's adverse and they tell you every day you can't use it, nobody does it. It's the legal case of it. That being said, I

558
02:53:54.640 --> 02:54:12.319
believe to be a good citizen in this and so I did everything in my power not to use Cape Shore Circle even though I had a right to use it. So we bulldozed a triplex on Holman and we took 50 ft of

559
02:54:12.319 --> 02:54:29.040
it and tied it into the land. When we sold off the uh uh area of venture, we kept an easement through there in case I was never buying it back. So, my intent was to honor my agreement with the city, not the city attorney, but Capeshore

560
02:54:29.040 --> 02:54:47.040
attorney uh uh uh that I would try not to use Cape Shore. So, we gone out of our way. Now, I looked at how to develop this as apartment. I've looked at it as a condominium. I looked at it single family. All of them requires a removal

561
02:54:47.040 --> 02:55:02.640
of the bulk of the trees just because storm water takes present and and with the storm water uh you cannot have it run off and so we're going to retain it into the sand dunes. We're blessed in

562
02:55:02.640 --> 02:55:20.000
this area with sand dunes and it perks better than any air any area in the city except the dunes on the beach. is pure sand dunes. So, we decided to uh mimic a development

563
02:55:20.000 --> 02:55:37.760
over in Sarasota for a survival uh three-story uh uh unit that uh will not put a burden on the city if we ever have a cap five here. Uh uh the first floor elevation on all these units are 10 ft

564
02:55:37.760 --> 02:55:54.960
which is extremely high for barrier round. second is 20 ft. Uh so uh we dropped the density down uh uh if this was developed as a uh uh 5 acre

565
02:55:54.960 --> 02:56:12.720
project condominium. It would be 75 74 units and it would be a big uh 45 ft story building with parking underneath it and and it would be a major structure. So uh uh this fits in

566
02:56:12.720 --> 02:56:30.240
uh I think as best as I can do uh for a survivable building and less impact. Now, the reality of the world is that for 14 years, I've mowed the yard there and I pulled up the weeds and yes, uh,

567
02:56:30.240 --> 02:56:47.680
the city got phone calls, but I only large track of land that mowed it for 14 years. And so, when I don't mow it, people complain. The reality is Cape Shore has used the land as a private park and I can no longer afford to have

568
02:56:47.680 --> 02:57:04.479
a private park. So, I got to do something with it. I was in talks with the city. They wanted it. I'd be happy to sell it, even give you guys a discount. But obviously, the market value is pretty high. So, here we are. Uh uh I have worked

569
02:57:04.479 --> 02:57:19.680
with this gentleman Dave Mensel for 40 years in development. And so, we came together with a plan to reduce the density. It's private road, so there's no you get the tax value and you do not

570
02:57:19.680 --> 02:57:36.960
get the the burden of the expenses of maintaining the road. It's a it's a private development. Early on, I met with the city manager and different people and took their input. We moved a lot of stuff around. Some of the

571
02:57:36.960 --> 02:57:54.640
improvements, we did a study already on traffic. I could run everything straight out to a A1A and not put the light in uh the road to the light on Holman. Uh but I thought it

572
02:57:54.640 --> 02:58:12.960
was a better development for going out because uh uh you can go out the light. We made it a oneway, not a two-way. So we're trying to keep as much traffic off Holman as we can. So, the one way is a left turn out only to the light. Uh, if

573
02:58:12.960 --> 02:58:29.520
I did not put that road in, it would have saved me probably two $300,000 and it could have been open green area. We put a very elaborate retention system in under the road. We're required to sign an agreement with St. John's on a

574
02:58:29.520 --> 02:58:46.000
maintenance on it. It's our burden or eventually the homeowners association. What we're asking here is to prove the concept so we can mo move forward. If the city would rather have a big apartment building or a condominium,

575
02:58:46.000 --> 02:59:02.560
I would rather do it before I spend another $150,000. We did spend that amount once and the city changed the code on us or the management changed in the city hall and I was told I was operating under the

576
02:59:02.560 --> 02:59:19.200
wrong code. And so I got back to square one and a year and a half later. So this is where we are. Technical questions go to Dave Menzel, my engineer of record. >> Thank you, Mr. Bugger. Any questions for

577
02:59:19.200 --> 02:59:37.000
the applicant? >> Yes, I have one council member King. >> Thank you. Um, that property that you own now, was that purchased, was that originally Porter property? >> Yes, it was originally out of the Porter family trust. Okay. Thank you.

578
02:59:38.080 --> 03:00:02.240
>> It's a beautiful piece of property. >> Yeah, nice property. >> Is there an illustr or a map or overview of the the the design that shows the Holman Road and the access that we could maybe zoom in on? I have a zoom.

579
03:00:02.240 --> 03:00:19.279
>> I think that the most detailed sheet is page 83. Um, and that shows the exit only into Holman. Uh, so it would only be going southbound on Holman. Folks would turn left and then they'd get the light. But if they wanted to go in,

580
03:00:19.279 --> 03:00:34.880
uh, they'd have to do it directly off of A1A. That something we can pull up. Oh, wait. 83. Oh, I had it, but I It's really hard for me to see. It's smaller. >> Yeah, it is smaller.

581
03:00:34.880 --> 03:00:49.760
>> We already uh did a traffic study on both uh in and out and and uh we're good either way, without Homeman or with Homeman. Okay. So, it's safer uh uh if

582
03:00:49.760 --> 03:01:07.439
you go Homeman without a light. Uh so and of course uh >> okay >> but it takes up green area. >> Guess I'm just trying to understand H Homeman takes up it runs >> that >> north and south and then it heads

583
03:01:07.439 --> 03:01:24.319
straight east to A1A and goes I guess McKenley on the other side of A1A. Um >> is this it right here? >> Yes. Yeah. If you just shift it over a little bit to the right, to the east, you'll see the homeman exit bottom and to the right.

584
03:01:24.319 --> 03:01:44.800
>> Thank you for doing this. Yeah. Okay. So, oh, it's right there on the >> Yeah, it's that skinny strip of land behind the Dollar General. >> Uh, >> and >> I got to get oriented here. I'm all

585
03:01:44.800 --> 03:02:00.720
turned around. Maybe if you zoom out just the tiniest bit, we can get the full perspective. So the far right of that image is A1A. And now that it's bigger, you can see all the way at the bottom on the far south end is Holman Avenue

586
03:02:00.720 --> 03:02:16.720
>> or Holman. Yeah. Holman Avenue. So >> Road. >> Yeah. Yeah. So the west the the left side of it is the Banana River Lagoon and then the south side is the exit onto Holman and then the right side the east side is A1A.

587
03:02:16.720 --> 03:02:31.760
>> Oh I I see. >> Okay. So, home and base. Well, >> this property has a boundary that's a weird uh eye shape sticking out of the south side and that has an addition for

588
03:02:31.760 --> 03:02:49.600
a roadway that's one way going south onto Holman. >> So, Holman is that thing that you see at the very very bottom of the image. >> It's actually wide enough for a two-way road. It's 50 foot wide. We we we looked at it as no road, green area, bike path.

589
03:02:49.600 --> 03:03:06.960
We looked at it as a one-way. We looked at it as a two-way. This was we all discussed with city staff and and everybody and we decided this was a a a good use of that land.

590
03:03:06.960 --> 03:03:22.880
Uh uh because some people have trouble pulling out on A1A without a light. So down along the bottom of this image here, that's where homeman, it doesn't show it, but that runs east to A1A, right? >> Yes. Uh >> okay. That's what was confusing me.

591
03:03:22.880 --> 03:03:40.479
>> The two pieces of land land that uh are east of this is the Dollar General and Golf and Gator. Okay. So basically this is a separation of commercial between the homeowners to the west and and this.

592
03:03:40.479 --> 03:03:58.720
So, uh, we have agreed to, uh, wall that in on both sides. >> And that's a oneway. That's that'll be a private road. >> This plan here is a oneway at this time. >> That road won't be named Homeman. It's a private. >> It will be named whatever you guys want

593
03:03:58.720 --> 03:04:18.160
it to be named. >> Just don't get too weird. >> Goes up here. Yeah. No, >> Bob. Now I understand. I couldn't see >> vogly. Yeah. May I ask a question, Mr. Mayor? >> Oh, please. >> Okay. Um, and former mayor uh John

594
03:04:18.160 --> 03:04:33.200
Porter lives in that vicinity. Does this property about his >> uh he sold off the uh piece that is uh next to the river to a gentleman from Boston. uh uh he's a lawyer and I

595
03:04:33.200 --> 03:04:48.640
believe he uh uh spoke at the uh uh hearing and I met with him and uh uh uh he did not like that we put the um the uh uh clubhouse next to his land there

596
03:04:48.640 --> 03:05:04.960
but in my defense the city wanted it on the river so I put it there. I can move it back. But I thought, guys, we need to get through the process and and and and see where we want it. Okay. We put it

597
03:05:04.960 --> 03:05:19.840
there because it was the smallest riverfront lot. Okay. >> So, the the property between you and John Porter, there's there's a piece of land that separates you from his property. He he now is one lot uh uh

598
03:05:19.840 --> 03:05:37.040
south, but right here uh where the road on Holman bends >> uh he he has probably >> the first uh uh 150 ft is residential. >> Then then uh there's like two 1 and a

599
03:05:37.040 --> 03:05:51.200
half acre lots in there. He's the first one and a half acre lot. >> I'm just trying to orient myself cuz I've been there. And so the the uh the homeowner has an easement through >> Porter's land to get to Holman. >> Okay.

600
03:05:51.200 --> 03:06:07.840
>> So everything east is commercial. Everything west is residential. >> Thank you. >> So this this road here is a buffer line. >> And where the legend is depicted, that's your golfing gator and the rate the

601
03:06:07.840 --> 03:06:24.000
little electric car. >> Dollar General and then golfing. >> I'm sorry. I'm off. So, uh, Council Member King, uh, Mr. Porter owned the home he lived in and then to the Jean, his mother on the the property to the north, right?

602
03:06:24.000 --> 03:06:39.760
>> As he said, he sold that. That would have directly abuted up against this. >> But Mr. Porter's properties does go, if I understand, all the way to the east and it will come up against uh the wooded area that you mentioned. >> Mhm.

603
03:06:39.760 --> 03:06:54.800
>> But because he doesn't own that, >> I think that there's quite a bit of uh >> I I met with John and he wanted a wall >> and and I told him I'd give him a wall. >> So >> So you're going to build a wall?

604
03:06:54.800 --> 03:07:11.279
>> Well, here you got to make it work. Okay. So, nobody gets everything they want. Okay. >> You just got to make it work. I believe in middle road approach. >> No, never mind. >> So, there will be a privacy like a

605
03:07:11.279 --> 03:07:25.359
retaining wall. >> We're talking about a concrete wall >> for storm water. It will have to go up and down. Uh uh there's some uh uh uh a lot of fuel coming in on this project. A

606
03:07:25.359 --> 03:07:41.439
lot of fuel. So uh uh this is a dune and the actually the topo if you look at it it goes from 12 ft and and 50 ft away it's down to like six feet and then it goes back up. So uh to build a road and

607
03:07:41.439 --> 03:07:57.279
a subdivision and all that stuff you just had to you know pick an elevation and move everything around. That's why none of the trees really would have survived no matter what you do. Okay. It just didn't fit in. So the the biggest

608
03:07:57.279 --> 03:08:14.720
thing uh because we're on the Banana River is storm water. So we have a very intense storm water system there. Okay. Uh uh and uh uh we I I have I can speak for myself. I

609
03:08:14.720 --> 03:08:31.000
have confidence in your experience in managing storm water in a much more difficult area of the city. It doesn't drain as well. >> Well, no. I'm saying uh your other projects this is um

610
03:08:31.040 --> 03:08:48.240
your timeline for this. Let's just say what are you >> Well, we're going to move through the process. We're farther along on this. It's just that the environmental like I have contracts. I already did traffic studies. I just stopped everything because I don't want to keep spending

611
03:08:48.240 --> 03:09:04.080
money and and if I come into this commission, you guys say no way. I like to know it upfront if there's there's a fundamental thing wrong. I don't want to get right to the end and spend another couple hundred thousand and you guys say no way. So I just want to know does this

612
03:09:04.080 --> 03:09:19.279
fly or doesn't it? If you don't you'll get something else that I won't have any any uh uh I would not buy that land back until you guys approved it. That's in the contract. Okay. I've got a one-off

613
03:09:19.279 --> 03:09:34.560
outside the box just preliminary statement before any and the reason for asking timeline. My understanding especially back behind Porter's property and a lot of reason those hills there is there's archaeological value. The IE >> the first thing I did is I came let them

614
03:09:34.560 --> 03:09:52.000
go in and I even paid for the uh uh when whatever they found they dug all they wanted to do and then when they couldn't afford the test I paid for the test. >> Appreciate that. Well >> okay. So, >> uh, under the future development, you might uncover more if that's obviously

615
03:09:52.000 --> 03:10:07.600
that would be your property, but we would >> that the purpose of that is I got a letter in my file that cleared me that this this is not they they I literally let them I wanted to address that up front and I did it like 10 years ago. >> Thank you.

616
03:10:07.600 --> 03:10:22.560
>> But I'll show you the letter. No, actually I was just saying as if if it might be worthless, but I know if we find something, you'll be the first to know >> the community. We have a museum and if it's something you wanted that those leaving little pieces of broken pottery

617
03:10:22.560 --> 03:10:39.439
like 1500 years old stuff is back. They found some stuff. They found some stuff. >> I believe it. They found a lot back there, the mounds. And so I don't know where that is in the process, but thank you. Okay. Well, let's keep working through it. So, this is residential development.

618
03:10:39.439 --> 03:10:54.560
Um, three stories with the bottom floor that West Coast Florida style. Uh, you you have on the first floor oversized double garage. Uh, uh, and then you have a

619
03:10:54.560 --> 03:11:12.240
foyer with an a stairwell and elevator and you have a back porch. So, we're assuming it will be $10,000 or less damage on the first floor. All the power boxes and everything else will be up up on the second floor. Uh uh we have we

620
03:11:12.240 --> 03:11:29.279
have not committed to but we will look at solar options and all that so that these things are uh operating uh whether you believe in climate change or not all that stuff is the way to go now. >> Well, we know the power goes out and

621
03:11:29.279 --> 03:11:49.520
>> we know the power goes off in Florida. I I'd like to talk to you about that someday because your for power franch franchise is uh doing a disservice to everybody on the A1A. >> No comment.

622
03:11:49.520 --> 03:12:04.720
>> That's not in disagreement I at all. What what my comment on that is they have temporary pigtails five years later after they changed out the and and temporary pigtails go out two or three times a year. So my generators that I

623
03:12:04.720 --> 03:12:19.920
put in a town place are going off on a regular basis because they will not pay for a permanent pigtail. Uh uh and and and and it's just beyond me. Uh, I had to threaten to sue them at

624
03:12:19.920 --> 03:12:36.000
Ratis until they actually changed out the pigtails. They gave a contract for the line. They then gave out a contract for the temporary pig pigtail. They never gave out permanent pigtail contract 5 years ago.

625
03:12:36.000 --> 03:12:53.279
>> Bob, the northern uh property line that abuts Cape Shores, you might have said this and if I missed it, what is uh is it going to be like a vegetative? Okay. Not required. Not required. >> I understand. And then uh we've got a wall so along the the west.

626
03:12:53.279 --> 03:13:09.200
>> Well, here on the >> the only thing that would change there is if uh somehow the fire marshall or somebody said, "I wanted access to uh uh something there." You know, again, life safety takes uh uh over over everything

627
03:13:09.200 --> 03:13:25.520
else. So, >> um again, I believe I have a right to access it. Uh but uh uh I'm trying not to infringe on them. The other benefit the city gets is you have two water lines. One dead ends on H Homeman and

628
03:13:25.520 --> 03:13:40.160
one dead ends right there at the front of um uh uh the aerial venture. We will tie those in and so you will be fed from the north on that uh other dead end

629
03:13:40.160 --> 03:13:57.120
line. I am uh I had preliminary uh conversations with the city of Aoko and I'm almost 100% positive they'll make me tie them in because any chance they get a private guy to pay for their water line, they make them do it. This is

630
03:13:57.120 --> 03:14:22.319
their chance in between the homes. Will they be fenced or or is it open plan? >> I'm I'm 75% >> in between the homes. Will there be fencing between each home? >> Uh will we have different

631
03:14:22.319 --> 03:14:38.800
>> or open? I mean >> well we gave you an example what they look like. We we have not done a final design because when we were in a uh uh what what was the meeting we were in? >> Oh the development review or planning and zoning? Not the planning and zoning

632
03:14:38.800 --> 03:14:55.200
one long time ago, twice >> the development review committee. >> Yeah. Yeah. Everybody was giving us feedback and we had to uh uh but basically uh it's going to be a Key West Florida style looking house. We might have a couple different designs, but the the

633
03:14:55.200 --> 03:15:11.840
the base footprint is the same in all of them. There's going to be push to a property line. There's going to be a whole series of easements and stuff so people can do their maintenance and stuff and but we're creating private green space for each owner.

634
03:15:11.840 --> 03:15:29.200
>> So there will be each individual parcels and on that line I'm not seeing I'm I'm just curious if you privacy go over all that with you but >> I think based on our understanding of conversations with Bob there are not fences to be included.

635
03:15:29.200 --> 03:15:45.520
>> Okay. It doesn't mean that someone couldn't apply later on and see if it applies with our zoning code and is good, but he's not planning on fencing them off because it's pretty tight lot lines. >> Power lines will be underground. >> That could be. >> Are you the power supply? Power lines.

636
03:15:45.520 --> 03:16:00.640
Will those be underground through there? >> I believe everything should be underground. >> Amen. >> I can I'm Dave Mensel with Mai Design Build and we did we're the engineer. >> Thank you. >> on the project. the there is zero lot

637
03:16:00.640 --> 03:16:17.600
line. So, one side of it is zero and then there's a space through it. There's no uh we're not showing a f a fence there right now because the idea was to create these so we could get a breeze going through it. >> Sure. >> Rather than a big building where you

638
03:16:17.600 --> 03:16:34.080
don't get that. Okay. So, that that's kind of the the design that we provided. Um, >> and we did move it so you have privacy, no windows and stuff that intrude on people and all that. And all you have is an easement to do maintenance. >> Thank you.

639
03:16:34.080 --> 03:16:50.160
>> Yeah. And these come with elevators. Okay. And like he mentioned, the garages are oversized so that all the things that you normally see outside somebody's house and the sidewalk, there's room inside and the HOA docks will keep that

640
03:16:50.160 --> 03:17:05.359
inside so it'll be under control. Each one has an elevator each year. >> Yes. Yeah. It's a threetory building. >> So it's um they're they're about 30 I think to to the peak at 38 ft. We're

641
03:17:05.359 --> 03:17:21.040
allowed 45. So they're not even as tall as them. But your height is >> part of this the point the peak on the roof. So >> the um uh it's a ceilings I think the first floor is 10 ft. The second floors

642
03:17:21.040 --> 03:17:38.080
I believe are nine 10. No, they're 10. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, but the um the the things that we're asking for in it are all done to complement the building design where by that new RPU we can modify the setbacks

643
03:17:38.080 --> 03:17:54.080
and we tried to make the buildings as nice as we could and uh that's how we came up with this concept and again the the density is about 36% less than what we could do with a big building that's

644
03:17:54.080 --> 03:18:10.479
45 ft tall. And we've done those. I've done those. So, um, the only thing that Bob, a couple things that Bob didn't mention was is there's a wetland. Obviously, at the shoreline, there's a wetland. We have avoided that. We set everything back and there's a buffer

645
03:18:10.479 --> 03:18:24.800
between the wetland and the construction. >> If you look at the building to the north, >> Tom, we'll need you to I'm sorry, to speak into the uh microphone. >> Look at the building north at Cape Shores. We're behind there. >> Yeah. So the building that is on the

646
03:18:24.800 --> 03:18:39.920
water immediately north, our f first building on the water is behind them. So we choose not to infringe on the wetland. We looked at it uh uh uh so that uh should

647
03:18:39.920 --> 03:18:56.880
we put up a seaw wall and uh we went back and forth on the wetlands. We even paid uh uh to get a glimpse at it. And wetlands is a gray area at best. Everybody that comes in and lays it out, if you have two guys on two different days, they'll

648
03:18:56.880 --> 03:19:13.520
give you a different layout. Then the third guy comes in is uh uh St. John's and they they have a third interpretation. So it's a negotiated settlement. Okay? And I swear if you take a soil sample, they all it's the

649
03:19:13.520 --> 03:19:28.479
same soil in my front yard cuz I put a swell in and I've been mowing there for 30 years and it's the same soil. But that's just my belief. But anyhow, we just said we don't want to fight with anybody on the wetland. So, we just

650
03:19:28.479 --> 03:19:44.479
pulled everything back. Okay. So, we did a preliminary. We're behind it. We're going to go in. If we nip it or something, it's we think it's going to not really be we're we're a whole

651
03:19:44.479 --> 03:20:00.160
building back behind Cape Shores. >> Okay. And if you go look at it, it will look like your mode yard that they call is wetlands. >> I do have another question. >> They've been mowed since 1940. >> The question I have for you is, are

652
03:20:00.160 --> 03:20:17.600
these buildings as you've described them here? Are they going to be facing one another? The porches, >> those all face the road. There's only five on the water, which one is the the clubhouse, unless somebody wants it moved. So, so if I if I'm living in this

653
03:20:17.600 --> 03:20:32.399
one, I can see my neighbor across the street >> on where their with their porch their porches. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, you got them on both sides. If you see go back to the uh site plan, those lots have a building footprint on it and

654
03:20:32.399 --> 03:20:47.920
Yeah, you got 39 lots and they're on both sides of the street. >> Okay. Okay. I see. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. >> Mayor Pim. >> Um, hello Mr. Robert. How are you? I have a question for you guys. So, it

655
03:20:47.920 --> 03:21:04.080
looks like we've got one, two, three, four boat docks out into the >> We were not building them. What we're asking the city to do is allow future owners if they want to spend a boat dock there is going to be extremely expensive

656
03:21:04.080 --> 03:21:19.760
because it's shallow and they're going to have to go out. So, somebody's going to have to spend $100,000. We're willing to put for the clubhouse a out to the water and then stop. Uh uh but all we're asking is when people buy

657
03:21:19.760 --> 03:21:36.160
waterfront homes everywhere else they have a right to put in a boat dock. We're asking them to give them similar rights but we are not going to put them in. We just don't want to take away. If you have a single family house you can

658
03:21:36.160 --> 03:21:50.800
put a dock on. Now they're very hard. There's all kinds of things you got to do. I estimate each of those docks are $100,000. I am not putting them in. >> Right. And if you have any type of boat

659
03:21:50.800 --> 03:22:07.279
that's under power or even sailboat that's so shallow over there, >> that's why it's 100,000. You got to go to 4 feet and it's out there. If you look at Cape Shores, they have a little marina out there. It's a good distance offshore.

660
03:22:07.279 --> 03:22:23.920
>> Okay. Thank Thank you. I had just noticed that was added in there. Now, um >> they're going to be paying waterfront taxes. They should have waterfront use. That's my position. >> Um and those would apply for whomever

661
03:22:23.920 --> 03:22:40.960
was in this subdivision. >> It would be reserved for the coastal lots. So, the coastal lots, he wants to >> reserve the ability for them to pursue putting a dock there. they would not put the dock in. And even more, those homeowners would still have to go

662
03:22:40.960 --> 03:22:57.279
through the Florida D process. They'd have to get an exemption with the state. So, they still have state controls on docks as well. It's just the note says future dock location for riverfront residential lots, but they still have to go through the state process. I I'm just

663
03:22:57.279 --> 03:23:14.560
asking the city to allow them to go through the process. Not to not not to say no here, but let if you can get it, have at it. >> Understood. Thank you. And I know that you you've always with your projects

664
03:23:14.560 --> 03:23:31.279
spend a lot of money and time trying to be concerned about our flooding >> and concerned about storm water, which I appreciate. It's a little bit It was a little bit of a shock for me when I first saw it because of it wipes out all

665
03:23:31.279 --> 03:23:48.399
the trees and it looks like a a lot of units on a small amount of property, but I think they look like lovely units. Um um I'm I'm not a fan of taking out the trees, which you you've heard me say

666
03:23:48.399 --> 03:24:04.239
that before, but I also know that you do spend your own money and that kind of thing to ensure that your properties are good with storm water. >> Yeah. Well, we we're fighting storm water, so we understand it. When we did

667
03:24:04.239 --> 03:24:20.160
the front of the Rison, uh uh we did what nobody else ever did in Cape Canaveral. We went down below the muck level, the whole front and pulled out uh up to 12 ft down and brought in beach sand. So when our chambers fill up, they

668
03:24:20.160 --> 03:24:36.479
actually perk down. And so uh we uh uh understand that we have a flooding problem and until we fixed uh uh most of central, not all west central, uh that intersection flooded. It has not really

669
03:24:36.479 --> 03:24:56.800
flooded much. Uh, now I'm flooding. I want to address it. And so that was my little speech earlier in the night and the the tree trees will new trees will be planted.

670
03:24:56.800 --> 03:25:13.600
>> The trees uh the process now is uh there's 29 trees or whatever trees are affected that we will hire an arborist. They will uh present their findings to the city. The city arbanist will then uh

671
03:25:13.600 --> 03:25:29.040
>> will negotiate a settlement. I will >> mitigate. >> We don't need to take that up today. >> It's a process back and forth because everybody has to agree. And again, it's a gray area because uh uh I've been cutting down oak trees in my neighbor's

672
03:25:29.040 --> 03:25:44.880
yard and you will be shocked uh uh how rotten some of these big trees are in the center. Okay. Uh uh so uh I dropped a tree that was wider than this and when it dropped it it split right down the middle was totally hollow.

673
03:25:44.880 --> 03:26:00.479
>> Hopefully your neighbor wanted you to do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. He wanted me to do that because if I didn't do it like tree removal. >> Well, you marrying up a good point. That's another approval as our staff that if it's this council depending on

674
03:26:00.479 --> 03:26:16.560
your timeline we'll we'll cross that bridge when we get there. council. Um, I think the the resolution tonight is a motion to consider preliminary development plan application

675
03:26:16.560 --> 03:26:34.960
in accordance with section 11422B of the city code for a residential plan unit development RPUD at 6419 North Atlantic Avenue and 260 Cape Shores Circle. The RPUD purposes 39 single family

676
03:26:34.960 --> 03:26:50.960
dwelling units and three common tracks on 4.97 acres under the name River Breeze. If we are we can continue to ask questions and discuss. I'm looking at the time. We're coming up on 9:30. So,

677
03:26:50.960 --> 03:27:11.279
if we're ready to do a motion for preliminary development plan application, >> I'll make a motion to approve the preliminary development plan for the River Breeze residential planned unit development. >> I'll second.

678
03:27:11.279 --> 03:27:28.800
>> Got a motion by Council Member Willis and a second by Council Member King. Is there any further discussion? >> I got one question. City attorney, >> city applicant. Uh, Mr. Ber, you indicated that you're going to put a a concrete block or concrete wall buffer.

679
03:27:28.800 --> 03:27:44.399
Install that somewhere. >> Concrete wall. >> Yeah. Where is that on the plan? Preliminary development plan. >> I don't I don't believe it to be marked specifically. No. >> No. It's not. It's noted on there. It's on the It's on the north north property

680
03:27:44.399 --> 03:27:59.040
line. Okay. >> It's on the south property line and it's down both sides of the oneway road that goes to the uh >> it's required on the commercial section. That's where it's required on on where I

681
03:27:59.040 --> 03:28:14.800
back up to commercial. It's not required on the other stuff. But again, >> uh it's probably a half a million dollar expenditure, but I I just don't want >> I just wanted to get clarification because you you said you met >> I said I'm on record. We're putting a We're putting a wall in there.

682
03:28:14.800 --> 03:28:34.640
>> Okay. It's It should be on the plan. If it's not before we get back here, it will be on the plan. This is why we come before you guys to use guidance uh in and uh we we need we

683
03:28:34.640 --> 03:28:50.960
we just don't want to spend money and then you guys are 180%. No, we rather have what are the issues so we can deal with them. Okay. >> Mine was just a question of clarification whether or not those

684
03:28:50.960 --> 03:29:07.840
discussions that you I think you if I remember your comment you had discussions and you agreed to put up a concrete block wall and my question to staff is is is that on the preliminary development plan? If it's not we can just add that simply as a condition. Yeah, I would be in support of adding it

685
03:29:07.840 --> 03:29:23.120
as a condition because I do not see it clearly demarcated on there. >> Okay, >> I can I can send you when I go back. I I actually have takeoffs of it >> for for to help us draft this condition. Where's that wall? >> How many blocks are and how many yards?

686
03:29:23.120 --> 03:29:39.279
>> Maybe Mr. Manzel can answer. Where where exactly is that additional concrete block wall that was referenced? >> Okay. The the the the the site is shaped like a T. Okay. So, the the north the north property line from

687
03:29:39.279 --> 03:29:57.359
the from the east all the way to the west is a is a concrete wall. Okay. The south property line all the way from the east to the west is a concrete wall except where the road goes through. Okay. Okay. And then the 6ft wall turns

688
03:29:57.359 --> 03:30:13.439
and goes south on both sides of that roadway as it goes down to >> Homeman and and it will go down to 4T at the uh when it gets within 50 ft. >> So So it's pretty much all the perimeter of the site.

689
03:30:13.439 --> 03:30:28.880
>> Yeah. And just for the record, there is a marking on there that says 6 foot height opaque buffer on a number of the site area, but it doesn't explicitly say wall or masonry or anything like that. Okay.

690
03:30:28.880 --> 03:30:44.000
>> Well, you remember you're not approving the plan. We're going back. >> Uh so send us back with anything that you're and we will argue at planning and zoning. Then we'll come back and argue with you guys. I thought we didn't want

691
03:30:44.000 --> 03:31:00.160
to argue >> if it's too grievous. >> No. Okay. >> So, I just just to make >> the block wall, we conceded and we moved we moved the uh the uh >> we we made a what I was making

692
03:31:00.160 --> 03:31:14.800
concessions behind the scene. >> Okay. >> And and not on the plan. not a very good negotiating thing because then you come in here and you don't know what concessions we already made and then you start making concessions again. So I rather make all

693
03:31:14.800 --> 03:31:31.120
the concessions at one place. >> Thank you, city attorney. >> Well, we appreciate the concessions that you made outside of the meeting. I just want to make sure the preliminary development plan is clear. So Mr. Manzel said there's going to be a sixoot concrete block wall right along the

694
03:31:31.120 --> 03:31:46.720
north property line east to west. Yeah. >> Also along the south property, >> next to me, it will be well laid out. >> East to west. >> East >> and then a concrete block wall. I think you said along Holman Road. >> No, it's it it runs.

695
03:31:46.720 --> 03:32:03.760
>> Can you put the picture back up? The U >> Yeah, along the T part >> along the T heading across the top on the north north and then across on the south and then it drops. It's also a retaining wall because you had different elevations

696
03:32:03.760 --> 03:32:19.520
>> on the other side of the property. >> You could potential >> potentially title that bottom condition as along the property boundaries of tract B because that's how it's labeled on the plan. That southern stuck out. So along the north property boundary,

697
03:32:19.520 --> 03:32:34.720
the south property boundary, and tract B's boundaries. >> Is that correct? >> That's not the right one, isn't it? >> Yeah. Okay. There there's there's a difference in elevation on the properties in different locations. So that acts as a small

698
03:32:34.720 --> 03:32:52.479
>> as a retaining thing on one side. I got to put the wall in so that I can have it as a retaining wall too. So in some areas there is it acts as a retaining wall. So it's all not my generosity. It's also I want to level the the field

699
03:32:52.479 --> 03:33:07.439
in certain areas. I met with the two property owners, Porter and a gentleman from Boston area and and uh uh both wanted concrete walls. So, I didn't want them down here complaining too much. So,

700
03:33:07.439 --> 03:33:23.200
I said I would put them in. Thank you. I think we we've talked through in making it more detailed in a manner for city attorney and staff that this council would support

701
03:33:23.200 --> 03:33:38.880
our staff's discretion on that and if that's the condition that needs to be made. We do have a motion. Um I'd like to do all the conditions at once if we're going to amend it. Thank you. City attorney or do you need to work through that a little bit more? But I I think if

702
03:33:38.880 --> 03:33:55.520
you want to make a recommended motion that would give you the latitude to work with Mr. Bugger and >> yeah I think I haven't heard any other additional clarifications for the preliminary development plan. So it's to the motion is to approve the preliminary

703
03:33:55.520 --> 03:34:13.279
development plan subject to the following condition that there's a 6 foot concrete block wall along the north property line east to west along the south property line east to west and I need condor's help on the

704
03:34:13.279 --> 03:34:28.319
track B because I can't >> and along the property boundaries of tract B. Okay, we're >> it's basically the whole property line and all we have to do I would like to reserve how we end it going into A1A and and Hullman so I can step it down

705
03:34:28.319 --> 03:34:43.439
>> section of the roadway that goes to Homeman >> give some wiggle room to the staff >> uh to prove as we approach the road I can step it down. >> Okay. And then as as Mr. Ford indicated along track the boundaries of track B. >> Yep.

706
03:34:43.439 --> 03:34:59.920
And I just wanted to point out it was also going to be used as a retaining wall because I cannot change the topo on their land side. Okay. >> Okay. >> We're going to finish. Let us work through it and then we'll get back to you.

707
03:34:59.920 --> 03:35:15.520
>> And then Mr. Ford said along the boundary of track B. So that's the condition. It's one it's one condition about the concrete block wall that's not referenced on the preliminary development plan. Um and then other than

708
03:35:15.520 --> 03:35:32.160
that um it's okay to to go move forward with approval and then Mr. Barger will have 2 years 24 months pursuant to the code to present the final development plan application and all the engineering drawings um

709
03:35:32.160 --> 03:35:48.399
consistent with the preliminary development plan. Okay. If you want to state the desire, it' be better if one of our council members would say uh I move as stated by the city attorney and before doing so. Uh Mayor Proim,

710
03:35:48.399 --> 03:36:03.920
>> yes, on the wall addition, I know that we have one other complex where a retaining wall was installed in a wetland area and it has caused flooding on an adjacent lot. So, can we get some kind of drainage calculations for storm

711
03:36:03.920 --> 03:36:20.720
water management so that we know that >> Oh, you'll get it. St. John's uh there will be there will be a certified St. John's agreement. >> Okay. Before we build it, there will be a plan that will come through a site

712
03:36:20.720 --> 03:36:37.040
plan. It will be part of uh and then there will also uh how they do it now uh you do an asbuilt of the system >> and then they take easements on it and then you have to sign a maintenance

713
03:36:37.040 --> 03:36:54.399
agreement now and they come in inspection every one or two years. So this is not like the old days. This is there is an ongoing interreaction with the property owner and St. John's uh to manage that storm water forever.

714
03:36:54.399 --> 03:37:10.720
>> Mayor Pro Tim. >> Yeah, that's good. I just wanted to make sure with the difference in lot elevations that we don't, you know, the retaining wall is literally built and has permitted storm water plans and all

715
03:37:10.720 --> 03:37:27.680
of that. And you just told me that, >> so I'm good. Thank you. Any other comments before our city attorney and staff work together the motion the amendment? Keep in mind we do have a motion on the floor to approve as

716
03:37:27.680 --> 03:37:44.479
written and so if you're ready city attorney I think uh we'll all be listening in and council can choose to move as stated. >> Okay. So there's already a motion on the floor. So I I >> consent >> if there's unanimous consent to this

717
03:37:44.479 --> 03:38:00.080
motion then you can proceed with approval of it. It's approval of the preliminary development plan. Okay. >> Uh subject to the following condition that there be a 6ft concrete buffer wall constructed along the north property line east to west, the south property

718
03:38:00.080 --> 03:38:16.319
line east to west and along the boundary of track B. >> So moved. >> Okay. You may call for unanimous on the amendment. >> It's because there was a motion on the floor. Rather than doing it as an amendment, I just said if if this is

719
03:38:16.319 --> 03:38:32.720
unanimous, you can just scrap the original scrap the original motion and adopt the second. >> Okay. >> Motion that I just stated. >> Does that make sense? >> Roll call to get you name. >> No. Do we do all in favor say I? >> I. >> Any opposed?

720
03:38:32.720 --> 03:38:47.680
>> Hearing none. >> I take that as consent. Now, the the motion that I just stated on the record would be the new motion. >> So, moved. >> Got a motion by Council Member Willis. >> Second. >> Second by Council Member King. Any

721
03:38:47.680 --> 03:39:05.279
further discussion? >> City Clerk. Is that clear? Okay. Please call the RO. >> Mayor Pro Jackson, >> four. >> Council member King, four. >> Mayor Morrison, >> four. Council member Shiaak

722
03:39:05.279 --> 03:39:20.239
>> four >> and council member Willis >> four. >> The record show passes 50. >> Best of luck Mr. >> Thank you very much and I will see you next round

723
03:39:20.239 --> 03:39:39.120
>> and we're not going to argue. >> Thank you. >> Thank you and help me out on that storm water in West Central. Thank you. Okay. So, we are I think it's going to speed up here.

724
03:39:39.120 --> 03:39:56.560
It better. Um, so we are now at 9.3, which is a resolution. Uh, and I do have a card, Mr. Dan with us here today. Yes. Uh, >> 98. >> That's 98. Okay. We'll make sure you're heard. Uh, thank you. Uh this is uh 9.3

725
03:39:56.560 --> 03:40:12.399
resolution number 202605 pedestrian hybrid hybrid beacon. The motion to consider the adoption of the resolution and uh the substance follows. City manager. >> Yes. This is a Florida Department of Transportation in coordination with the

726
03:40:12.399 --> 03:40:28.640
city's advancing the installation of a pedestrian hybrid beacon at the southeast corner of Taylor Avenue and North Atlantic Avenue to enhance pedestrian safety and approve crossing accessibility at this intersection. To accomplish the installation of the

727
03:40:28.640 --> 03:40:45.040
safety infrastructure, FOT will need the city to sign a perpetual easement agreement attachment two for a small portion of property just west of the racket ball courts. And I defer to the attorney on any questions about the resolution. >> All right, this the resolution explained

728
03:40:45.040 --> 03:41:02.479
by our city manager. Any other comment, city attorney, before asking the council for questions? Uh, >> no, no additional comment at this point. Any questions on the resolution council? I don't have any public comments on

729
03:41:02.479 --> 03:41:21.200
this. Any discussion? Looking for a motion. >> Make a motion to adopt resolution number 20265, pedestrian hybrid beacon installation. >> Seconded. >> Got a motion by council member Willis

730
03:41:21.200 --> 03:41:40.800
and a second by council member King. Any further discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, please call the role. >> Mayor Prom Jackson, >> four. >> Council member King, >> four. >> Mayor Morrison, >> four. >> Council member Shiaak,

731
03:41:40.800 --> 03:41:56.239
>> four. >> And council member Willis, >> four. >> 8 9.3 resolution 202605 passes 50. Now moving on to item 9.4 titled North Atlantic drainage improvements. This is a motion to approve the proposal from Bowman

732
03:41:56.239 --> 03:42:12.800
Consulting in the amount of $68,155 for the design of North Atlantic Avenue drainage improvement project and authorize the city manager to execute the same. City manager, >> I'll defer to Tim Carile, capital projects director on this project. >> Hey Tim.

733
03:42:12.800 --> 03:42:30.399
>> Hey, good evening council mayor prom. Um, as you guys know, we have been dealing with uh numerous issues with the canal. Uh, historically, um, it's I believe it's a combination of,

734
03:42:30.399 --> 03:42:47.200
uh, impervious area along with, uh, rising water levels that's brought the canal to where it is today. Um, however, during the reconstruction of North Atlantic Avenue, and I'm I'm not sure

735
03:42:47.200 --> 03:43:03.920
what took place there, but um there was lack of curbing and lack of storm water drainage in that area of Cape Canaveral Mobile Estates and Mango Manor. And I know that there's many utilities on both

736
03:43:03.920 --> 03:43:20.319
the east and the west sides which actually kept it from us putting any kind of underground storm water system that we would normally do on a road project. However, uh we are unfortunately contributing to some of the watershed that's coming off that

737
03:43:20.319 --> 03:43:38.319
road uh down Cape Canaveral Mobile Estates. So to erect the situation to fix the situation um we have hired Bowman Consultant which is on our CCNA list to um do a study and design on that

738
03:43:38.319 --> 03:43:55.279
portion of the roadway. Uh which will mostly consist of pitching the driveways a little bit more towards the road. um instead of flat curbing, putting Miami curb in like we have through the rest of the city and uh putting type F curb in

739
03:43:55.279 --> 03:44:10.720
which is the higher curb in that area to direct storm water mainly towards the central area where there's actually an underground storm water system. Now during our discussions we wanted to make sure we didn't inundate that portion of the storm water system. That's why we're

740
03:44:10.720 --> 03:44:28.319
having the study done also a hydraulic study in that area. So, with that being said, um that's that's where we're at with that project. >> That is some of the best news I've heard all day. I think this is uh a direct response and something this

741
03:44:28.319 --> 03:44:47.680
council can look to as a hope to fix a significant issue on that street. So, thank you, council. Uh any questions for our city staff on the proposal? City manager or city attorney, any further comments on this one? Seems

742
03:44:47.680 --> 03:45:04.479
straightforward. >> No, mayor. >> Okay. >> Well, we're ready. >> I'm so happy this is happening for those folks that those floods were something for them during that last round go round.

743
03:45:04.479 --> 03:45:21.520
I'd like to make a motion to approve the um agenda item number 9.4, North Atlantic Avenue drainage improvements. >> Second. >> Got a motion by Mayor Pro Tim Jackson, a second by Council Member Willis. Any

744
03:45:21.520 --> 03:45:40.399
further discussion on the item? Hearing none, city clerk, please call the role. Mayor Pro Tim Jackson >> four. >> Council member King >> four. >> Mayor Morrison >> four. >> Council member Shiaak >> four. >> And council member Willis

745
03:45:40.399 --> 03:45:55.920
>> four. >> Motion passes 50 on 9.4. We moved item 9.5 and voted that through in the cons uh consent agenda. 9.6 we voted to postpone. We moved 10.1 up

746
03:45:55.920 --> 03:46:12.560
which is now the one uh we'll be taking up next. So, we're going to jump to 10.1. Now, I'm looking here. 9 8. Oh, we're going to get there. So, uh, Mr. did you want to speak on 10.1

747
03:46:12.560 --> 03:46:29.040
or it just says 10 or was it 9.8 and you were rounding to 10? >> 10.1. >> 10.1. Okay. We're going to go ahead and just get an overview and then uh once we we're done with that, we'll make sure you're heard. Thank you. Right.

748
03:46:29.040 --> 03:46:46.080
This is titled uh fund balance policy ordinance 1820. Spoke about this uh during the workshop. City manager. >> Thank you councel. So just to resume our conversation on this item. I

749
03:46:46.080 --> 03:47:01.920
think we left off where the council was considering a two-year fund balance restoration plan, but had to address how this particular code words the timeline of

750
03:47:01.920 --> 03:47:17.279
implementing a two-year restoration plan. And I think we had a consensus that the two-year time frame would start now. And we've had some conversation about this ordinance offline. the attorney and

751
03:47:17.279 --> 03:47:34.960
um Joey the finance director and I just would uh ask you and the council is you know are you still what your thoughts are on what you want to do with this? >> Thank you. My understanding is the two years we would adopt it with the budget and we even debated including it in the

752
03:47:34.960 --> 03:47:50.160
budget and that the two we would have two years it says to take action. and I was trying to find it to restore it. But we could actually worry more about that timing as we get into the budget to see what's realistic um as opposed to

753
03:47:50.160 --> 03:48:06.640
starting the clock today. I think that that today we were noticed as a council together and uh a plan needs to be submitted and over the course of the coming workshops uh we

754
03:48:06.640 --> 03:48:25.840
will be working with you to develop that plan and then the clock would start. We approved the budget. It would just run with the normal calendar. We'd approve a budget and a uh and a fund balancey or a fund balance

755
03:48:25.840 --> 03:48:41.920
restoration plan. That was my understanding. If that's >> so perhaps you're going to uh move to um discuss a two-year fund restoration PL um plan during the normal course of our

756
03:48:41.920 --> 03:48:57.920
budget workshop as outlined in this particular ordinance. Would that be a fair motion then? as the prop uh the I think we would adopt a budget and a plan >> correct budget >> together and probably be prudent to have

757
03:48:57.920 --> 03:49:16.319
a first reading or maybe that's not necessarily at least incorporate that and and maybe we separate it out but yes I think so um >> well okay so the ordinance do we have a proposed ordinance here in front of us

758
03:49:16.319 --> 03:49:30.880
for >> that will come at a later time. It sounds like you're going to you're going to proceed in the spirit and intent of the existing ordinance as you move toward a fund balance restoration plan.

759
03:49:30.880 --> 03:49:46.800
And that would be the two-year period until such time as you determine ultimately what your plan is. But you're basically going to honor or be, you know, act in keeping with this ordinance. Yeah, I think it would be we're going to adopt this mo uh budget

760
03:49:46.800 --> 03:50:04.000
with these revenues, these expenditures, and this budget would have to support the plan to restore. And we know that it's going to probably impact next year's budget, too. >> And I think that's the way I understood

761
03:50:04.000 --> 03:50:19.040
it is we aren't just going to pass a budget. We're going to pass a budget that has an accompanying two-year restoration plan. That's my understanding. >> That put that in the form of a motion

762
03:50:19.040 --> 03:50:36.800
and we'll get on to the next item. >> Okay. Yeah, I think it would be um appropriate. I move that we adopt uh a budget uh a plan for a two-year restoration

763
03:50:36.800 --> 03:50:52.880
in tandem with adopting a budget for fiscal year 27. >> Beautiful. I'll second. >> Got a motion by council member King and a second by council member Willis. Before going any further, it is hitting me and appropriately. We do have a

764
03:50:52.880 --> 03:51:08.479
public comment card on that. That is the motion on the table. Mr. we'd love to hear your comments on the item. I do apologize. >> Withraw my comments. >> You withdraw. >> Are you sure? >> Yes. >> It sounds like you're meeting the intent of the You're meeting the intent, not

765
03:51:08.479 --> 03:51:25.279
changing. >> Doing our best. Thank you very much. Anyone else that would like to speak on the item? We'll be talking about this more. So, we hope if there is anything you want to talk about, we we'll be here. Um any

766
03:51:25.279 --> 03:51:40.399
further discussion council on the motion? Seeing none, city clerk, >> mayor prom Jackson >> four. >> Council member King >> four. >> May Morrison >> four. >> Council member Shiaak >> four. >> And council member Willis

767
03:51:40.399 --> 03:51:56.239
>> four. >> Okay. Item 10.1 which we moved up in the agenda as stated in the motion on the reserve fund res or uh fund restoration

768
03:51:56.239 --> 03:52:11.920
plan was adopted 50 and now we are moving seems backwards but 9.7 we are now into our public hearing items. Uh this is resolution number 202609

769
03:52:11.920 --> 03:52:28.239
which is a proposed millage rate adoption for fiscal year 2627. This has been on the agenda. We've scheduled it. We had some discussions about um due to the nature of what we would be voting on. we could have the

770
03:52:28.239 --> 03:52:44.960
option to adopt it tonight, but we did schedule a meeting that was ahead of the next deadline. Uh, which is what our city staff ultimately needs for is it August 4th or 5th? Uh, >> August 3rd.

771
03:52:44.960 --> 03:52:59.359
>> The meetings on the 3rd and the deadline >> 4th is the deadline. >> On the 4th, >> yes. uh we could move tonight and uh they would obviously have enough time before the deadline. But my understanding is even if if we do not,

772
03:52:59.359 --> 03:53:16.640
we do have a reserved date on uh that that August 3rd, which would be enough time to submit the the documents to the property appraisers. So, city manager, being this is a public hearing

773
03:53:16.640 --> 03:53:32.080
item and resolution, if I was just kind of given a recap of what we discussed at the workshop, uh we talked about this quite a bit and we received the presentation. There's anything else you'd like to add or discuss?

774
03:53:32.080 --> 03:53:48.319
>> No, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're going to defer adopting any millillage until a future workshop >> if I mean any council member could make a motion if they wanted to. I would I I would like some more time before and I think we kept it open. Uh

775
03:53:48.319 --> 03:54:04.720
>> I think you have plenty of time to do that. It would be it would be prudent to discuss all of your options before you set anything. >> And that workshop uh which we had today was in the middle of the day and council member Shoryak and the whole council I think supported. This next workshop will

776
03:54:04.720 --> 03:54:22.479
be in the evening. And so our goal is to get as much citizen engagement between now and then. and folks to attend that workshop so that we can make a decision with the community. And uh yeah, that that's correct. Uh I would

777
03:54:22.479 --> 03:54:39.680
agree with the city manager. I I think we will defer, but is there any council member that wants to take action on this tonight? >> No. >> No. >> Okay. And just we can discuss it if is there any discussions or any afterthoughts? We talked about it at length, but

778
03:54:39.680 --> 03:54:54.960
>> I'm worried about the fact that we're having this meeting the next one on the 3. >> Mhm. >> The millage rate is due, the proposed millage rate is due on the the very next day. >> Mhm. >> And we spent 4 hours today just coming

779
03:54:54.960 --> 03:55:10.000
to this conclusion. So, I'm a little concerned about actually taking a look at the budget and what direction we want to go because there could be a situation where we're doing, you know, some

780
03:55:10.000 --> 03:55:25.279
cutting as well as looking at the millage rate and that sort of thing. And I'm worried we're cutting it really too close. It's going to be tough, but as council member King said, I mean, the while

781
03:55:25.279 --> 03:55:43.439
it is a proposed rate, it is not um >> right, >> it is something that we have the ability to go down. I've never liked that or loved that as a reason. Always want to try to to get it as close to what you actually think, but I think we would

782
03:55:43.439 --> 03:56:00.880
absolutely if there we are a lot of residents show up. You're right. at five. I mean, there's a point where we're going to need potentially an hour or two, if not more, to work through it, and we'll have to make a decision. I mean, that's just the reality of what we do. Um, do you have a suggestion on how

783
03:56:00.880 --> 03:56:17.840
to overcome it? I I think we received a lot of info today, too, in the workshop that we're going to have a chance to process, >> right? And I and I understand that. But until and luckily staff has made a bunch of cuts already.

784
03:56:17.840 --> 03:56:33.439
>> Um but I think that >> you know even the you know when you go above 10% you have to do with the new state law you have to do a budget cutting exercise. So under the circumstances, I think it would be wise

785
03:56:33.439 --> 03:56:48.960
for us to make sure we have the time to look at the the actual budget and talk about what's important and how we might be able to do things better. >> Um, and just doing it the day before the

786
03:56:48.960 --> 03:57:03.600
proposed is due. We just need to be aware that whatever we're sending in is more than likely going to change. You know, it's either that or having a budget meeting to look at the actual budget itself

787
03:57:03.600 --> 03:57:19.920
>> prior to that budget meeting that is to set the proposed military. >> I agree and I understand that concern. city manager. >> I was going to suggest unless you want to have another meeting to discuss it the budget in more detail, I'm open to

788
03:57:19.920 --> 03:57:34.080
meeting with all of you one-on-one if you like and we can have finance staff be there as well like we did in advance of this meeting uh so that we can go over your concerns and budget cuts. I know you need time to make a decision on the dis, but we're happy to meet with

789
03:57:34.080 --> 03:57:51.040
you outside of the chambers if you like. >> I think that's imperative. We set that at 5:00 pm for the public. Another idea would be we meet an hour or two earlier and then you know it's we're coming together to talk hope if we had our one-on- ons we actually get to talk to

790
03:57:51.040 --> 03:58:06.720
each other through it which is really the the helpful and then the workshop open invite the public could come in if we came in an hour or two earlier just an idea. >> I thought we had set dates. We did and we were saying

791
03:58:06.720 --> 03:58:23.680
>> I think council member Jackson's concern was the three hours tonight that we you know wanted to potentially work through those items. I mean it was a lot of information that we had to receive. We haven't had a chance. The the the wall is high to cross over. And so we're

792
03:58:23.680 --> 03:58:40.800
coming in at 5:00 p.m. on the 3. >> And if there is a lot of public comment, that could be hour or two hours of public comment. And uh will we get it done? Would we have to call an emergency meeting the next day? We don't want to have to do that. So the suggestion was

793
03:58:40.800 --> 03:58:58.000
keep the date we set at on the 3rd at 5. Mhm. >> encourage residents to come in at that time. >> Your plan, >> but we could come in an hour or two earlier public meeting, but that is for us to get to business and to to really

794
03:58:58.000 --> 03:59:15.120
talk through it. Yes, city attorney. >> Okay. We're going to need a uh Thank you, city attorney. A motion to extend. >> Make a motion to extend to 10:30. >> Second. Got a motion by council member Willis and a second by council member King to extend to 10:30 p.m. Any further

795
03:59:15.120 --> 03:59:30.160
discussion? >> Seeing none, city clerk, >> mayor prom Jackson >> four. >> Council member King >> four. >> Mayor Morrison >> four. >> Council member Shyak >> four. >> And council member Willis >> four. >> Thank you. Motion passes 50 to extend to

796
03:59:30.160 --> 03:59:45.920
10:30 p.m. I think we keep the date. I think we take our city manager up on the advice. Absolutely. we can process this information, work with Lisa and them to get on the schedule and the team have our one-on- ons. We come in at a time

797
03:59:45.920 --> 04:00:02.560
earlier, say it's 3:30, 34. We've had our one-on- ones. We can now go, "All right, so what are we thinking? Let's talk together." And then the people, they can come at that point, but we're going to really open it up to the public at 5. Give them a chance, and

798
04:00:02.560 --> 04:00:18.960
then we won't vote until after that. So, >> so regardless what the public says, we're going to take a vote. >> It's basically like a just a different format. We're going to put public comment in the middle. >> All right. >> And but we're not going to vote until we

799
04:00:18.960 --> 04:00:33.920
hear public comment, >> but to work through it. I mean, one way to look at it is we could do a 3pm workshop with a special meeting that we have set at 5. We already got this. So, we could just frontload it with a workshop, but it need to be a working

800
04:00:33.920 --> 04:00:50.479
workshop. And let me ask you this, Mr. Mayor. When we've done this before, we've looked we have looked at this literally line item by line item to determine >> Y >> what our spending is and where we want to cut. Are we wanting to look at it to

801
04:00:50.479 --> 04:01:05.520
that degree or are we just going to trust what staff gives us because this took longer than that as a process when we've done it that way before in the past. >> Yes, it has. And so if we're just going

802
04:01:05.520 --> 04:01:23.199
to take what they've given us and make a judgment that way, then we may not need to do this extra time. But we're talking about an hour or two extra and that's not going to be enough time to go through the the actual budget.

803
04:01:23.199 --> 04:01:40.000
>> I can state this and we really haven't done it. My feeling is uh we're going to have to make some major decisions and it's not just revenue. There are there are uh things that are going to need to to change. And I'm

804
04:01:40.000 --> 04:01:56.239
thinking more of a cash flow instead of setting a budget for the year. What do we need to do over 90 days? What do we need to do over 180 days? And I've got some things I want to talk with the city manager and the council and our staff about about thinking about it a little

805
04:01:56.239 --> 04:02:13.439
bit differently. And I do think that's going to take some time. Uh I think city staff has said they've got it as far as they can at this point. They're doing cash preservation thankfully to get us through this existing budget. if everything goes our way, we'll end up

806
04:02:13.439 --> 04:02:31.920
hopefully in a in a better spot than had we executed on the budget we we adopted. But, um, if if I had to say, uh, what city staff I think is is proposing,

807
04:02:31.920 --> 04:02:46.880
what's in my head is very different in many respects. And that's not any disagreement. I just I have some some different thoughts that would probably take a minimum of, you know, 45 minutes

808
04:02:46.880 --> 04:03:03.120
to an hour uh realistically talking through it, but I wouldn't call it complex. It would just be No. And that that's fine. >> It would take some time. >> Yeah. And that's what that's all my

809
04:03:03.120 --> 04:03:20.479
concern was. Um because we've got five of us left here that need to agree on our direction and give direction to the city manager with a deadline for that on that for I mean if and I'll come in here

810
04:03:20.479 --> 04:03:37.760
and keep my mouth closed and listen. >> Well, we don't have to have that level of detail for the proposed millage rate. We really we did those in the past after that. I do think we need to accept, you know, that

811
04:03:37.760 --> 04:03:53.120
we'll we'll meet the deadline for the proposed if we do a good job of our communication on that. Um, and then we're going to do the best we can. I think that's when we're going to dig in a little bit deeper and and that's where the most the time is going

812
04:03:53.120 --> 04:04:09.120
to be needed and that's usually historically when we spin it. We just didn't have this tension on the proposed, >> right? Uh, so I get it and I and I don't disagree. We got a five. I mean, that's 5 hours till 10:00 p.m.

813
04:04:09.120 --> 04:04:25.199
>> Well, and and I'll be honest with you, if we're going to do it that way, that's different than we've done it before. So, it doesn't matter if we start earlier because the proposed rate will change. >> Yep. So, I mean, literally, if we're

814
04:04:25.199 --> 04:04:40.800
going to do that, we could propose it tonight because it will change. >> Yeah. I' I'd like to have a little some citizen feedback before we go out with the proposed. Um, but technically, you're right. I mean, it's

815
04:04:40.800 --> 04:04:57.439
there's a chance it wouldn't change. Uh, we know what it would require for it to not change and I think we go in with a little bit more info. This will give us an opportunity. We do need to maintain that thought though that this is our goal

816
04:04:57.439 --> 04:05:15.439
is that we want to do our best, right? And and we don't want to come in high. I think we could all agree on that. And so, do we want to keep it at five? I think we'll have enough time and I think we'll be able to utilize that time as our city

817
04:05:15.439 --> 04:05:38.279
manager said throughout the day leading up to it. So, and if we do a good job of communicating what we're doing, I think that'll help keep the peace a little. Okay. This is item 9.7.

818
04:05:39.040 --> 04:05:55.199
Is there any uh comments on this one? I don't have any. Anyone from the public want to weigh in? uh put on the record we have I think we we did a roll call vote on scheduling the 93 meeting earlier at 5:00 p.m. or do we need to do that?

819
04:05:55.199 --> 04:06:10.160
>> I can't recall >> on the screen I think. Let me see. 93. >> We did 5:30. >> You're committed to 8:30 at uh 6 p.m. >> 8:30. >> It's on the screen. >> I'm sorry. >> It's 6 p.m.

820
04:06:10.160 --> 04:06:28.479
>> August 3rd 6 p.m. >> It's on the screen. Yes. And we voted on that in the workshop. That's sad. I have to ask. >> We did. >> Okay. That was that was a while ago. >> Is there any further discussion? I don't think we need to make a motion here. We just move on to the next item. City

821
04:06:28.479 --> 04:06:43.920
attorney. Is that right? Take no action and we'll go to the next one. >> Okay. Council, any opposed to moving on? >> Let's do it. So, now we're at item 9.8. I do have a card on this. Just checking

822
04:06:43.920 --> 04:06:59.359
in. Do you intend to speak? We'll call you up in just a second. Thank you. This is 9.8 first reading and hearing ordinance of synthetic turf permit. City manager. >> Uh thank you, mayor. This item came to our attention during the site plan

823
04:06:59.359 --> 04:07:20.720
review, and we're going to have Zack Icults come up and address it directly with you. >> Thank you, Zach. Sounds like a hurricane. It's pointed the wrong way. Okay, just get my Okay, council. So, this is

824
04:07:20.720 --> 04:07:36.000
ordinance number 042026. Um, this is an interesting one. Um, so ordinance number 042026, which is being read for the first time tonight, establishes local regulations to provide for local review of synthetic turf installations on single family

825
04:07:36.000 --> 04:07:50.880
residential properties 1 acre or less in size for limited purposes of ensuring compliance with applicable Florida Department of Environmental Protection regulations. The planning and zoning board met on July 1st and unanimously recommended approval or that council

826
04:07:50.880 --> 04:08:08.399
approve ordinance number 042026. Um, and just for some more background on this, Florida statute 125.527 uh2 regulation of synthetic turf became effective on July 1st, 2025. And it actually uh prohibits local

827
04:08:08.399 --> 04:08:24.640
governments from unfortunately adopting or enforcing any ordinances or policies that prohibit certain prop property owners from installing synthetic turf when that synthetic turf otherwise complies with applicable Florida Department of Environmental Protection Regulations.

828
04:08:24.640 --> 04:08:42.000
In that case, um that is FD rule 62-304. establish and authorize the statewide standards for installing synthetic turf on single family residential properties of 1 acre or less. So, uh to protect the health, safety, and welfare of citizens of the city, a permit will now be

829
04:08:42.000 --> 04:08:58.239
required to install synthetic turf on single family residents of 1 acre or less. The purpose of the permit is to ensure that the proposed synthetic turf meets the minimum standards set by the FD to allow us some level of protections. Um, with that I could take any further

830
04:08:58.239 --> 04:09:13.520
questions or if city attorney wants to add anything. >> Yeah, I thank you, Zach. I think the city attorney being this is ordinance 042026. Is this something you need to read verbatim? >> Not verbatim, but I'd love to read it in by title only. >> Okay. >> Trying to shorten the meeting. Ordinate.

831
04:09:13.520 --> 04:09:30.239
Okay. This is an ordinance of the city of Cape Canarville, Florida, amending chapter 102 vegetation article 1 in general of the city code to create a new section 102-1 establishing local review requirements for the installation of synthetic turf on single family residential property 1 acre or less in

832
04:09:30.239 --> 04:09:46.479
size in accordance with the minimum standards adopted by the Florida of uh Florida Department of Environmental Protection pursuant to section 125.572 Florida statutes providing for the conflict severability cut notification and effective date. Again, this is first

833
04:09:46.479 --> 04:10:02.319
reading also a public hearing item. One additional point that is worth noting um you know the syn synthetic um turf requirements that were established for the single family uh properties was established as by the department of

834
04:10:02.319 --> 04:10:17.199
environmental protection at the direction of the Florida legislature. This ordinance is not establishing any new requirement on synthetic turf. it doesn't conflict with the FDEP rules. Um

835
04:10:17.199 --> 04:10:34.319
so the only intent and purpose of all this is to provide a review mechanism for the city to be able to enforce those rules um to the extent necessary um and to educate the public regarding the rules that the Florida Department of

836
04:10:34.319 --> 04:10:51.199
Environmental Protection has adopted. So, it doesn't establish any new synthetic turf substantive rule requirement at the city level. It's it's a state requirement and um we're not changing that at all.

837
04:10:51.199 --> 04:11:06.239
>> A question. Uh so, does this mean that if somebody wanted to install um synthetic turf on their property, they need to pull a permit for that >> if it's a single single family under one acre? Yes. >> Okay. Wh what what what are the dangers

838
04:11:06.239 --> 04:11:23.199
inherent in uh synthetic turf that would require monitoring? >> Sure. Um so synthetic turf can be good or bad. It's really we want to make sure it's installed properly so that it can still allow for drainage through it. You sometimes can do it on property where

839
04:11:23.199 --> 04:11:39.680
you know you'll actually install a concrete slab and then they'll put turf artificial turf on top. That's not really helping any way in terms of storm water mitigation. So making sure things like that are done. uh the color, the materials as laid out by the FDEP rules. Um things like no heavy metals are are

840
04:11:39.680 --> 04:11:55.279
are intentionally added like PAS like forever chemicals which are really bad for human health. Um just making sure the subgrade's okay uh and things like that. There's a whole list of requirements like the city attorney laid out that FDEP has that we'd be basically fact-checking to make sure they're

841
04:11:55.279 --> 04:12:11.600
complying with FTEP rules before they put it in. >> So it's a public health a public safety issue. Oh yeah, it public health, storm water controls, just making sure the aesthetic, you know, we don't want synthetic turf that's purple. >> I don't know why you do that, but making sure things are green and whatnot.

842
04:12:11.600 --> 04:12:26.239
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I hope that answers your question. >> It does. It does. And it gives me some ammunition for when I'm asked about it. >> Sure. >> Because I will be. I'm sure. >> We did develop a cheat sheet. I don't think it was able to be or um our city

843
04:12:26.239 --> 04:12:42.880
engineer developed a cheat sheet. I have to give credit to Rich Davis. he helped bring this item through. Okay. >> Um we can make the cheat sheet available to council that he put together. >> Is it that would be great. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Thank you, >> Council. This is a public hearing item.

844
04:12:42.880 --> 04:12:58.960
Thank you, Director I Colts and our city attorney here for uh helping us understand it and read the title. Are there any technical questions uh further beyond what council member King has asked before going to the public? Great question. All right, public

845
04:12:58.960 --> 04:13:15.600
hearing item. Mr. I think we're time has arrived. This public hearing item, we'd love to hear you. >> All right, Dan Dan 226 Pulk Avenue. Um, I'm glad to see some regulation here. Pretty trashy looking

846
04:13:15.600 --> 04:13:33.040
turf around the neighborhood. Um, and definitely health concerns with all the plastic. I uh intend to install some myself at our residence because it when installed properly looks very nice and uh it's a great aesthetic. I'm concerned here that this is single family

847
04:13:33.040 --> 04:13:49.439
residents and the majority of our property is zoned R2. What's the extent of application and what's the motivation there? Mr. Pun, happy to be in a public hearing

848
04:13:49.439 --> 04:14:05.920
item. R2, >> that's something I need to defer to see attorney. >> I think we have single family in R2. >> We Yeah, we may. >> We do quite a bit of it, >> but it doesn't mean you don't have a good point. I'm I'm thinking what would

849
04:14:05.920 --> 04:14:21.760
not >> not to jump in, but what a town Well, I live in a town home in R3 >> or duplex. I think that's considered a single family home, >> right? What about duplexes, triplexes? >> There's a bunch of duplexes. They can do

850
04:14:21.760 --> 04:14:37.600
whatever they want. >> The property appraiser calls mine a duplex. I think the city calls it a town home, but it's I don't a single family home. Uh >> yeah, why single out just single family? I I I don't get the logic in that. Yeah,

851
04:14:37.600 --> 04:14:53.279
that's the Florida legislaturator's uh directive to the Florida Department of Environmental Protection was to create um this this standard for properties that are zoned or used for single family residential. >> Maybe do they have a definition for

852
04:14:53.279 --> 04:15:08.560
single family that maybe would include all all? Is it more vague general? >> So multifamily would not >> to Mr. Coon's point. I don't think the rule um defines

853
04:15:08.560 --> 04:15:25.520
>> um single family. >> Okay. >> It's not unlike them to be nebulous. >> We're going to have two readings of this. >> Yeah. >> And I didn't mean to come chime in. I think we're we're looking into it as you speak and going to try to get our arms around it and that's why we have two

854
04:15:25.520 --> 04:15:41.760
readings. You have the floor, sir. Is there anything else or was >> Oh, no. That that was my point wanting to know why. >> Yeah. >> Single family was uh being called out. >> Mr. Coons, you you you have a duplex, right? >> No, no. Single family. >> It's a single family on Poke.

855
04:15:41.760 --> 04:15:58.159
>> Yeah. So, it would it would apply to me, but not my neighbor. >> Okay. >> Mr. are you building the new construction right here? >> Uh, yes, sir. >> Very I think we've all been watching that as we come come here and work. You're doing a great job. >> It's a really cool architecture in the

856
04:15:58.159 --> 04:16:14.000
south facing roof and >> All right. Just want to make that point. >> Thank you, >> council. We could find more clarification for that and upon the second reading we can make sure those answers are clarified. >> But it wouldn't surprise me if the Florida legislature did >> something like that. >> No, it's just not defined.

857
04:16:14.000 --> 04:16:30.880
>> Yeah. >> Well, there do you think that they one thing I would look at is did they define it in the building code? Because when you're dealing with permits, that's dealing with building code. And there is a definition in the building code. And that is that single family home is

858
04:16:30.880 --> 04:16:46.880
defined as a residential dwelling unit that is not more than three stories in height, has a separate means of egress and is not part not part of a multi- family structure. So if we could just verify if that's what it meant.

859
04:16:46.880 --> 04:17:05.359
>> Sure. That would be every duplex, every that means I would live in single family under that Gregory. >> And it seems somewhat discriminatory to me. >> Well, the intent of the state legislation was to preempt municipal and

860
04:17:05.359 --> 04:17:19.600
county home rule. >> Yes. So the city city cannot adopt an ordinance that prohibits the use of synthetic turf on single family properties either zoned or used as

861
04:17:19.600 --> 04:17:35.840
single family. So it's a preeemption and as part of the p the preeemption kicked in under the legislaturator's the law when FEP Florida Department of Environmental Protection

862
04:17:35.840 --> 04:17:53.680
promulgated and adopted the synthetic turf rules consistent with this with the statute and that that occurred a couple of months ago that Florida Department of Environmental Protection adopted the rule which immediately kicked in the

863
04:17:53.680 --> 04:18:10.720
preeemption taking away municipal home rule and county home rule to regulate synthetic turf on property zoned or used for single family residential. But they have a whole bunch of rules. You in order to get the preeemption, you

864
04:18:10.720 --> 04:18:28.720
have to install the synthetic turf in accordance with the rule. And the enforcement of course falls upon the local jurisdiction. For example, you can't install synthetic turf in within storm water areas,

865
04:18:28.720 --> 04:18:44.720
right? You can see the the importance of that, right? you wouldn't want to impact negatively impact the storm water system. So, the city's in the unenviable position now to actually have to look at it and make sure it's installed with the

866
04:18:44.720 --> 04:19:01.120
right materials with the, you know, in the right places. Otherwise, nobody would be in enforcing it, frankly. >> Yeah, we haven't closed public comment, and that's a good thing. I know we're just talking through it here. I got another

867
04:19:01.120 --> 04:19:20.399
card. Mr. Keith Capezy, as a property owner, how are you representing yourself today, sir? >> So, I do Yeah, I own, like I said, I own six properties, none none that are single family where I could put turf. Uh, they're all condos, but um that's

868
04:19:20.399 --> 04:19:35.680
not to say that I wouldn't buy something in the future and want to put turf in. I I personally I don't have it at my personal house. I I don't anticipate ever wanting it, but at the same time, I don't want the government telling me what I can and what I can't do on my

869
04:19:35.680 --> 04:19:52.479
property. Uh I think artificial turf is relatively harmless. And I think the the majority of people aren't really interested in in messing with it. So, I feel like there's a little bit of government overreach to try to tell somebody what they can do on their

870
04:19:52.479 --> 04:20:09.040
property when we're talking about the likelihood of them concreting their whole yard and putting turf over it is is not financially feasible. If they're going to do it, they're going to they're going to probably put um crushed aggregate or something and then and then go over it, which could uh mess with

871
04:20:09.040 --> 04:20:26.560
some drainage. But, uh, I think it's such a small demographic of people that are actually going to be using it that it's it's just a non-issue to try to make more rules. Uh, when I'm in favor of less less is more when it comes to

872
04:20:26.560 --> 04:20:43.359
government in my opinion. So, thank you. >> Thank you. There any other public comments on the item? Ordinance 20 26 04 2026 synthetic turf.

873
04:20:43.359 --> 04:20:58.000
Very interesting way we got here. But >> you know it it Mr. Mayor it makes one wonder. Don't they have more important things to be doing in Tallahassee? You know it just they reach down into

874
04:20:58.000 --> 04:21:14.239
the minute and just aggravate people. I I agree with you. I I just is less government is best. Anyway, my two cents. >> I think about someone who like paved their whole lot and got rid of the minimum green space and then to cover up

875
04:21:14.239 --> 04:21:31.359
they ran like green down to say Yeah, it's very >> But I agree. I I'm just thinking through the city there's that one on a Jackson and Ridgewood. It's It's such a little It's like a little corner piece. It's very small. on. So, I'm once we get into

876
04:21:31.359 --> 04:21:46.960
this more, I think I'll notice it now and and think through it. >> Obviously, if we have to do something, we'll I think try to make it as especially if they're going to mandate our staff's time, >> mayor

877
04:21:46.960 --> 04:22:01.680
>> to work on it. Yes. >> Our engineer is not here tonight. Um he's out of town, but um perhaps prior at the next meeting, he can weigh in on the issue as well. I think it's important to hear his opinion before. >> I agree. I agree. >> I think this came about too because like

878
04:22:01.680 --> 04:22:17.520
you said there isn't all that much but we have noticed um more starting to be installed in the community as a means of you know I could see I understand you know it's you don't have to irrigate it. >> Oh yeah >> it's not really any maintenance as opposed to actual sod. So we have

879
04:22:17.520 --> 04:22:33.520
started to see a little bit more. So this comes I guess a good time to do a house cleaning you know just to make sure everybody's crossing their eyes and dotting their tees. I said that backwards, but um I'm just making sure you're still awake. >> I heard um Thank you. But that's my two cents.

880
04:22:33.520 --> 04:22:49.600
>> Yeah, I get it. As a absent landlord owner, out of state, short-term rental, you got that little strip on the side you've been dealing with. Just turf it. I there's times where it might make sense. Either way, look forward to hearing from our city engineer. So, I think that's great. And

881
04:22:49.600 --> 04:23:06.560
thank you again. And this is a requirement for the state for us to monitor this. Okay? And see, if I was looking at what state laws am I following or not, I'd be telling them to pound sand on SB

882
04:23:06.560 --> 04:23:23.040
180. >> Pound turf. >> Okay. >> That I would pick a good one to not follow. All right. So, but Mayor Kapzy has a point because we're getting to have so many laws. There's

883
04:23:23.040 --> 04:23:40.399
absolutely no way to enforce them and it's getting crazy in our world these days. Will you lock arms with us in Cocoa Beach if we tell them? >> Okay. We love our neighbors. All right.

884
04:23:40.399 --> 04:23:57.359
If there's not anything else, council, I do think there would be a benefit to get through this first reading with a vote that does not represent anything of finality. So, what do we want to do? Uh, I mean, I guess we could vote against it and we

885
04:23:57.359 --> 04:24:13.279
it wouldn't come back for second reading, would it? And I want to hear from Rich, so I don't want to do anything. >> No, sir. You might Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, Rich isn't here. He would add more color to it. There's an education component to this and just trying to make sure

886
04:24:13.279 --> 04:24:31.840
>> that the synthetic turf is if it's used, it's installed properly. >> So, if we vote >> against it, there's no second reading. >> There is no second reading. >> Okay. I think we should >> and Rich might come back and say, would you consider it? >> We want to push it to a second reading

887
04:24:31.840 --> 04:24:47.680
so we wouldn't have to start it all over again. Council member Shoryak, you look like you don't want to do that. >> More needless regulation. >> That's my opinion. >> Well, I think >> you could vote for a first reading and deny on the second.

888
04:24:47.680 --> 04:25:03.199
>> That's what I'm thinking is uh it's worth talking through it a little bit more and then we'll know we made the right choice. Uh because if we learn something and then like, oh, then we got to advertise it for two more readings. we at least get one of the two readings

889
04:25:03.199 --> 04:25:20.560
done and it'll be final. So, >> and Rich does have extensive background given he deals with this a lot in his dayto-day. So, he'd love to talk to you. I know that >> if you want to keep your voting record pristine, Council Member Shoryak, I

890
04:25:20.560 --> 04:25:36.159
think we got a majority here that'll get it through and you can vote against. Do we want to try to go to second reading with the concerns? >> Let's make a motion. >> I move that we go to a second reading on

891
04:25:36.159 --> 04:25:55.120
ordinance number 04-2026 uh relative to synthetic turf permitting. >> Does that does that make sense? >> It does. All right. >> Tough second though. >> I'm listening.

892
04:25:55.120 --> 04:26:12.080
>> Looking for a second. Second. >> Oh, there you go. >> Got a motion by Council Member King, a second by Council Member Willis. Any further discussion on the ordinance on first reading? >> Seeing none, city clerk, please call the

893
04:26:12.080 --> 04:26:26.159
role. >> Mayor Pro Tim Jackson >> for. Council member King >> for Mayor Morrison >> for >> council member Shiaak >> against >> and council member >> four.

894
04:26:26.159 --> 04:26:44.479
>> All right. Ordinance 04 2026 passes on first reading 41. We are now moving on to and point of order. We need to extend the meeting. >> Okay. Uh, and let's we got one more

895
04:26:44.479 --> 04:27:01.120
public hearing item. We got three minutes before to to Mayor Pro Tim's point. Um, I I think this is this is the last ordinance. Um, yeah, let's go ahead and extend and then

896
04:27:01.120 --> 04:27:21.840
I think we should knock that one out. >> Uh, let's extend though for sure. Make a motion to extend to 10:45. >> Seconded. >> Got a motion by council member Willis and a second by council member King. Any

897
04:27:21.840 --> 04:27:35.199
further discussion? City clerk. >> May pro Tim Jackson. >> Council member King. >> Council member No, sorry. Mayor Morrison. >> Council member Shiaak. >> And council member Willis.

898
04:27:35.199 --> 04:27:53.439
>> Four. All right. Motion to extend. Was it 10:45? Yeah. >> Okay. To 10:45 pass 50. We are now on item 9.9 which is the second reading and public hearing for ordinance 032026

899
04:27:53.439 --> 04:28:08.560
titled repeal of the community appearance board city attorney. Ordinance. >> Okay. Ordinance. Second and final reading. Ordinance number 03-2026. An ordinance of the city council of the city of Cape Canaveral, Bvoulevard County, Florida. Abolishing the community appearance board. Reassigning

900
04:28:08.560 --> 04:28:24.000
the community appearance review process to be performed concurrent with the site plan or building permit process as applicable. Adopting conforming amendments providing for the repeal of prior and consistent ordinances and resolutions. Incorporation into the code

901
04:28:24.000 --> 04:28:40.080
severability and an effective date. So this ordinance uh was passed by the council first reading um at your last meeting and then um we were a little bit out of sequence our normal sequence. It went to the planning and zoning board for review and recommendation. Planning

902
04:28:40.080 --> 04:28:55.120
and zoning board looked upon the ordinance favorably and recommended approval. Um but the board also made one uh small revision to the ordinance that um in their opinion they felt that um

903
04:28:55.120 --> 04:29:10.080
when when the regular site plan is required uh to be um processed and um for a development out for a development um that the um that the elevation and

904
04:29:10.080 --> 04:29:26.560
aesthetic review re occur concurrent with site plan review. And um the previous version for first reading gave the gave the applicant the ability to um have the option of having it done

905
04:29:26.560 --> 04:29:42.560
concurrently with site plan review or not. There was an incentive to do it concurrently. There would be a there would be no fee. The PNZ board felt that um that aesthetic review in all cases should run concurrent with the site plan

906
04:29:42.560 --> 04:29:58.000
process. So, that change was made uh to this version that's currently before you this this evening. >> Thank you, city attorney council. Any questions before we ask the public

907
04:29:58.000 --> 04:30:15.040
to comment and we'll bring it back. This is a public hearing item. Ordinance 032026 is read by our city attorney. Second and final reading to repeal of the community appearance board. If you choose to speak on the item, please come forward.

908
04:30:15.040 --> 04:30:36.159
I don't have any cards. Seeing none, we'll go ahead and close public participation, close the public hearing, bring it back to the council. Council, any discussion? If not, we can move. >> Well, I'll jump in. I move that uh

909
04:30:36.159 --> 04:31:03.120
ordinance number 03-2026 abolishing the community appearance board um undergo its second reading and be completely abolished. Waiting for a second. Is it that hard?

910
04:31:03.120 --> 04:31:18.159
Got a motion by Council Member King, second by Council Member Willis. The way that uh Council Member King said that, it was way more intense than the way. It's like

911
04:31:18.159 --> 04:31:33.520
>> I think you spooked you spooked them, >> I guess. I don't know. >> No, it was great. Thank you so much for jumping in there. We've got uh discussion. Any discussion on the motion? I would like to say something real and I'll say it real quick since we're at

912
04:31:33.520 --> 04:31:49.920
this point of the night. Um I have a couple of concerns with the way that we're handling this with it coming to council simply because we're doing a job that we're not accustomed to doing. And just

913
04:31:49.920 --> 04:32:07.680
like we had tonight where we have someone come in where you know the the foot the height was 45 ft but because we've allowed it before in that zone you know 65 is allowed and then the parapit

914
04:32:07.680 --> 04:32:23.760
wall was allowed to 69. Um, I think I would love to see us have some way of identifying during that initial site, you know, plan, conceptual site plan

915
04:32:23.760 --> 04:32:40.960
where we identify anything that could be not compliant with our code. What we see with Mr. bogger is that he comes in and he will he will take the most restrictive city code and follow that.

916
04:32:40.960 --> 04:32:56.080
That's the way his pattern that he's used before in the past. But as we deal with different developers, they're going to try to do what works well for them. And we are all new at this and need to

917
04:32:56.080 --> 04:33:12.000
be really on top of are there variances in that very first thing how it might impact us and maybe we need language to that or at least training on it some sort. That's all I

918
04:33:12.000 --> 04:33:29.279
have to say. >> I I I the one thing I noticed is the time. I mean that we those two were as a full P&Z board meeting tonight and we put it with the council member and so >> uh

919
04:33:29.279 --> 04:33:43.199
>> but isn't that what we wanted? >> It is we're just feeling it >> and we may have to literally put those meetings on a different night. >> Yeah. where we have the time to devote

920
04:33:43.199 --> 04:34:01.600
for them and not have our normal agenda items in there just because of the fact that it is going to be and boy council member King who's been on PNZ knows >> now we're seeing because this is the first time that we've been involved in

921
04:34:01.600 --> 04:34:16.959
the process so there may need to be just a couple little modifications we make is in regards to the community community appearance board and the adjustment board because we've abolished both of those >> and really understanding that P&Z board

922
04:34:16.959 --> 04:34:32.719
is they still work through it and make recommendations >> and that that was discussed at the planning and zoning board meeting because essentially you're you're replacing the the public process, right? And you're putting it before the planning and zoning board,

923
04:34:32.719 --> 04:34:48.561
>> right? and then before the city council, you're still getting the public >> process and review, >> but it's as as the council directed >> over well over a year ago, we have substantially streamlined the

924
04:34:48.561 --> 04:35:05.199
city code and development permit process, exactly what you wanted. And um you are feeling it for the first time tonight on some major changes that you made to make the process more streamlined, but these issues all get worked out too at

925
04:35:05.199 --> 04:35:21.439
the planning and zoning board level before the you know before they make a recommendation. You know, um yeah, sometimes it it takes it takes a little bit more time depending on the project like how how long the review are. You you you may get some projects that might take you five

926
04:35:21.439 --> 04:35:37.760
minutes to look at it and and approve. Some take longer >> and you may you may need to maybe in some cases if it's a big project have an additional meeting on that off night >> right >> on an as needed basis. on an as needed basis.

927
04:35:37.760 --> 04:35:54.639
>> Well, I can tell you this the land use city staff or community that train of thinking and then jumping into finance, that's a different train of thinking that that'll cause natural fatigue. I mean, so if you had to group them by category, community appearance and land use

928
04:35:54.639 --> 04:36:10.879
decisions and we try I mean we we we did I think the agenda is as good as we possibly could respecting that. But I hear you. I think uh I mean do you still want to move forward or is there something within this

929
04:36:10.879 --> 04:36:27.279
ordinance that you try to address? >> I believe we need to move forward. I agree with the principal but I think as we look at how we handle it >> Yeah. >> as a council we may want to direct our city manager that if we have two of

930
04:36:27.279 --> 04:36:43.119
these big projects come before us >> that we see them on their own in a meeting. so that we can devote the time we need to that and still conduct our business we need to conduct later.

931
04:36:43.119 --> 04:36:59.039
>> That's a good idea. That makes makes sense. >> Better. >> Mhm. That makes sense. >> So, we've we've got a motion and a second. >> We do. Any further discussion? >> That was all I had. >> Don't want to rush you. Is that it? >> Yes, sir. >> Thank you. Good comments.

932
04:36:59.039 --> 04:37:18.959
Seeing none, city clerk, >> mayor prom Jackson, >> four, >> council member king, >> four, >> mayor Morrison, >> four, >> council member Shiaak, >> four, >> and council member forgotten Willis. Sorry.

933
04:37:18.959 --> 04:37:36.000
>> Four. >> Thank you. >> Eight. >> Item 9.9, ordinance 03 2026 passes 50 on second and final reading. That ends our public hearing items which now brings us to uh 10.1 which we moved up. We've

934
04:37:36.000 --> 04:37:53.039
already taken that item up and we have uh four more items remaining 10.2 through five. The first one is the public EV uh charging station revamp project proposal. Just let making you aware it's

935
04:37:53.039 --> 04:38:09.199
10:38. I'm going to step out. welcome any other council member, but I think we keep the meeting going. I'll be as back as soon as I can. I'm passing the gavvel at this time. Uh, city manager item 10.2. >> Uh, thank you, mayor. The, um, you know,

936
04:38:09.199 --> 04:38:24.561
we have several EV charging stations, and this is a project that we assigned Zach Icults to look into to determine how we can can manage these better and potent and generate more revenue. So, Zach, take it away. Thanks, city

937
04:38:24.561 --> 04:38:41.920
manager. So, also thanks to Mayor Prom Jackson for helping to initiate this item. Really appreciate it. As you know, we're looking to cut costs while generating revenues. And to put it bluntly, we're not doing that right now with the current um the current way that

938
04:38:41.920 --> 04:38:58.080
the charging station program is set up. And that's not good. So we were tasked with basically finding a way in which we could either significantly reduce expenditures while raising revenues or put expenditures at zero and only generate revenue which would be great.

939
04:38:58.080 --> 04:39:14.959
Now we went through several companies to try and do this. Um it seems the market has shifted more towards um companies that come in and they uh will go to a a municipality and the municipality will act as a host site for their stations while they can uh just recruit

940
04:39:14.959 --> 04:39:29.520
reimbursement through the electricity cost that's dispensed for the charging stations or get a percentage of the revenues and just be done with it and they just live there and the city doesn't really do anything. So we identified um a company that could do

941
04:39:29.520 --> 04:39:46.080
that uh out of five that we looked at and funny enough it is the company that we currently have. Shortly after we installed them they shifted over to a model that became available because called a charge as a service or Cass. Um

942
04:39:46.080 --> 04:40:01.200
and I'm glad that we've made it to this item because Nova Charg's CEO is here and has waited to explain this program to you uh this whole time. So, I'd be happy to turn it over to him, but just as a high at a high level, what this would basically entail is that every

943
04:40:01.200 --> 04:40:16.718
charging station that we currently have would be returned over to the original installer, Nova Charge. Um, and a fixed pricing rate would be set at 0.35 uh cents per kilowatt hour plus a $20 per hour idle fee once charging is complete

944
04:40:16.718 --> 04:40:32.878
after a 30-minute grace period. And the city as a host site would be fully fully reimbursed for the power used and additionally receive 10% of all revenues generated. So it would therefore become a net positive revenue stream. It wouldn't be hundreds of thousands of

945
04:40:32.878 --> 04:40:48.080
dollars every month, but it would be something. And it would eliminate a $6,000 uh m um networking cost from our budget each year, which is great. >> That was one question I had for you. >> Yes. >> Was so that 5,400

946
04:40:48.080 --> 04:41:04.638
for the AI network monitoring fee >> that goes away. >> Okay, thank you. Sorry I interrupt. >> No, you're good. So, I'll turn it over now to Nova Charges CEO, uh, Oscar Rodriguez, uh, Nova Charges based locally in Orlando. They've always been

947
04:41:04.638 --> 04:41:21.440
actually really responsive to our needs. Um, I will say though as a point uh that the council will need to decide is two of the stations are currently out of operation at city hall due to something that happened um with uh a power surge and unfortunately they're not working.

948
04:41:21.440 --> 04:41:38.320
One station still is. Now, as I understand it, and Oscar could clarify this, but we would have to pay for the um the repair of those since it happened while we were still they were still under our ownership, which would be about $8,000. If council doesn't want to do that, we could just forego those charging stations and keep the ones that

949
04:41:38.320 --> 04:41:55.600
we already have and just go towards this model or we could um repair them on our dime and then just forego them and let them be and then start recuperating more reimbursement back just with more stations. So, that'll be up to you. I just wanted to make that point of of clarification. But Oscar, take it away.

950
04:41:55.600 --> 04:42:13.920
>> Oscar, I am so sorry. Thank you for your patience with us. Can I uh can we extend the time just by all in favor? I mean, and is that or do we need a roll call? >> Well, whatever the council wants to extend it to, but just the time of doing a roll call

951
04:42:13.920 --> 04:42:28.718
seemed it's a lot faster to >> I want to say 11 11:10 because we've got to give him time if we're going to do this. >> Yeah. I didn't want to to put you in a situation. We got three minutes, two minutes now and you'll be in the middle of speaking and we'll have a point of

952
04:42:28.718 --> 04:42:45.520
order. Um, can we can I uh take consensus by saying all in favor? City attorney. Any opposed? >> It's okay. At this >> I would take the role at this point because I'd have to check the code to see. >> That's okay. That would be good to know in the future. Council, let's do that so

953
04:42:45.520 --> 04:43:02.320
we be respectful time. >> Make a motion to extend to 11:10. >> Second. Got a motion by council member Willis and a second by council member King to extend till 11:10 p.m. >> City clerk, please call the role.

954
04:43:02.320 --> 04:43:18.798
>> Mayor Pim Jackson, >> four. >> Council member King, >> four. >> Mayor Morrison, >> four. >> Council member Sharia, >> four. >> And council member Willis, >> four. >> Oscar, the floor is yours. Thank you. >> Thank you very much, Mayor. Uh, and city council members, uh, thank you very much and staff. Uh so first of all let me let

955
04:43:18.798 --> 04:43:35.120
me say that you are our customer and we value that very highly. Uh we we've had a great relationship. I think our entire team thinks Zach is the best guy in the world. We love working with Zach. Um and and the team here has been just phenomenal. Um I understand where you

956
04:43:35.120 --> 04:43:50.718
are. Uh we we do a lot of business with municipalities and uh government entities uh not just in Florida but around the country and everyone's looking for a way to kind of tighten the belts and stick to the core and we understand that. Um, we as a company

957
04:43:50.718 --> 04:44:06.718
have evolved, as Zach said, we've evolved from being a a uh creator of technology to realizing that the market has shifted and so therefore we're offering our knowhow effectively to run the stations on your behalf so that you don't have to worry about the vending

958
04:44:06.718 --> 04:44:23.920
machine, if you will, right? So, um, and like all vending machines, they every once in a while need maintenance and every once in a while they need to have a little bit of, uh, care, uh, and maybe even some adjustment as to stay attuned to the marketplace. So, uh, if I, you

959
04:44:23.920 --> 04:44:39.440
know, I came here armed with some data, I'd like to share some data with you because I think it's it's important to to understand where you make money, uh, and where your costs go away. So, your costs will go away, right? And and Zach, I I I know with all due respect to Audrey on my team, we could probably do

960
04:44:39.440 --> 04:44:55.520
better than the $8,000. So, we'll do we'll do better than that, right? But my uh what what I really want to say is that you have a growing EV charging community here. And what's interesting about it is because you've taken the step, a very bold step by the way, to

961
04:44:55.520 --> 04:45:11.760
differentiate between residents and non-residents. So those folks that are signed up to be residents as a part of your program, all they simply do is they submit the email address uh that they've used to log into our app, right? So they're log in. We identify them as

962
04:45:11.760 --> 04:45:27.360
residents and they get charged a different rate because they're part of your community. Uh only 8% of the of of the charges are from residents. That means you have a lot of visitors here, by the way, including myself and my family which come here uh to Cape

963
04:45:27.360 --> 04:45:43.200
Canaveral. We you typically park at one of the presidential streets, right, the avenues that you have and go to the beach here. Uh and so I've used it. Uh I know people that have used it and there are a lot of folks that passed by. What that means to you is this, right? Is

964
04:45:43.200 --> 04:45:59.600
that you dispense at city hall alone 11 megawws in 2025 and year to date you're already at 13 megawws, right? Just city hall alone. And if we look at um uh interestingly enough, the community center that has

965
04:45:59.600 --> 04:46:15.600
only two charging stations, it's neck andneck with city hall, which means that if I were making a vending machine decision, I would say if you have the parking spaces, because sometimes you don't, and you have the power, because sometimes you don't, you could enhance

966
04:46:15.600 --> 04:46:32.160
that site and maybe move some stations around, right? And put the cook machines in the places where the thirsty people are, so to speak, right? Uh, and so there's a way to make more money. There's also a way to make more money here with raising the price a bit, not a

967
04:46:32.160 --> 04:46:47.760
lot, but also remember if you differentiate your residents, right, from the visitors, the visitors often will pay market because if they go down the street, they're going to pay market anyway at another's charging station. So, you might want to consider these types of things. And these are the

968
04:46:47.760 --> 04:47:03.520
things that we would suggest, right? as if we took them over, we would say we want to maximize your revenue and by the way we maximize our profits as well. So we have a vested interest in and you're on kind of on the same team here and our goal is to make sure that we keep cost

969
04:47:03.520 --> 04:47:20.638
low by making sure the stations are running to the top condition. We run AI software that runs in the background all the time. I I think some of your team is definitely definitely associate well well acquainted with this and that allows us to have our costs low which

970
04:47:20.638 --> 04:47:37.040
means that we can then have more profits to to share with you right and that's our goal in all of this. So uh our model is a little bit different than some of our competitors. Our competitors uh will often you know unfortunately be able to claim yes you'll get x amount of

971
04:47:37.040 --> 04:47:52.958
revenue. I'm not saying that. I'm saying it will grow. And right now you're on a growth curve from last year to the first half of this year of 23 and a half%. Growth, right? So the revenue has grown that much. So it will continue to grow. Um the one thing I would I would also

972
04:47:52.958 --> 04:48:10.160
recommend is that collectively maybe we stay open to putting some more stations around town. We we'll also be going, by the way, to uh the property owners and asking property owners, maybe this gentleman back there, if they would like to host stations because if they do,

973
04:48:10.160 --> 04:48:26.080
then that gives more density and it gives peop more people, especially the residents, uh places to charge, but the visitors, reasons to stay and actually spend more money in your town. So, we have a casino here in Florida that we do

974
04:48:26.080 --> 04:48:41.600
business with. And what they've realized is that while everybody's chasing fast charging, they're they love slow charging because as they like to say, you stay in play longer if you have slow charging, right? And so there's more entertainment that can be served up to

975
04:48:41.600 --> 04:48:57.440
res to those visitors that are coming in if they have to linger just a little bit more for their battery to be at the right level to get back to Orlando, Tampa, wherever they're going. Right? So EV charging can actually be useful, right, in terms of creating revenue and

976
04:48:57.440 --> 04:49:12.638
we have a lot of those strategies, right? And the one thing I can commit to you is that we're not going to implement a strategy would you wouldn't agree with, right? And so I think if you delegate to your staff to make sure that they bring common sense to the table, we'll also bring common sense to the

977
04:49:12.638 --> 04:49:28.958
table as well because we want people to be happy charging and fueling and want to keep coming back and the only way they do that is if they're happy. So, let me let me stop there because I I know I'm throwing a lot at you. And I I want you to to to to understand that we know where you are. We want to help you

978
04:49:28.958 --> 04:49:44.400
with your problem. Eliminate costs, still generate revenue, maybe not as much as you would have generated if you owned the vending machine. I understand. But it's costless at this point, right? >> Thank you, Oscar. Sure.

979
04:49:44.400 --> 04:50:05.200
>> I was trying to get to the All right. Council. >> Yes. Mayor Pro Tim. >> Hi, Oscar. >> Hi. >> Um, okay. So, I've I've been in big tech, so I can relate to all of this.

980
04:50:05.200 --> 04:50:20.718
And I was one of the ones that wanted to look at this um as a service versus owning the equipment. Yeah. >> Um, and so typically on this contract, how long would it be? And would there be any cancellation clauses that allow us

981
04:50:20.718 --> 04:50:38.320
to get out of it if our projections aren't what we thought they would be? >> Uh, yes. So, there are clauses to get out of it. We can certainly adjust the clauses. I we're open to doing that. Um, some folks care about performance, other folks care about quality. And so there

982
04:50:38.320 --> 04:50:53.520
are different ways to kind of look at uh out clauses if you will. The the very typical thing that we do is or the typical uh program we have is anywhere from 5 to 10 years, right? So and and it can be structured with an automatic renewal or an automatic one-year

983
04:50:53.520 --> 04:51:10.560
renewal. However, whatever we mutually agree to is fine, right? Um so I I you know, we my belief is that if we don't provide a good service, you should kick us out. I mean, that's I think that's true for any vendor, right? And >> that that's good because that shows

984
04:51:10.560 --> 04:51:27.600
you're confident with your product. Um, now >> on some of the terms and conditions like the host agrees to sign over the title to the installed EV charges to Nova Charge. Yeah. >> Um, literally we paid for, you know, the

985
04:51:27.600 --> 04:51:44.560
first generation of equipment. >> Then we paid another $115,000 for an upgrade. Now, I know the price isn't much, but can't we get some kind of equipment trade in? Because that's going for four to 800 bucks for each

986
04:51:44.560 --> 04:52:00.638
charger based on features and that kind of thing. I hate just signing over something that we literally put all of this money in to you to where you all own it without any kind of equipment credit.

987
04:52:00.638 --> 04:52:18.560
>> Yeah. Um I Okay. I I don't disagree with you. I would feel the same way. So I'm like uh because I'm a little confused as to the first generation, second generation. >> Mayor Pim, are you referring to the original original? >> Yeah, we had >> that we still have >> Well, we had the original and then we

988
04:52:18.560 --> 04:52:35.280
upgraded them, right? Correct. Right. >> Okay. And the first year we spent 120,000. What was it Josh that we spent? >> 111. >> 111. Then when we upgraded, how much did we spend on that? that that's the only upgrade that's ever been done.

989
04:52:35.280 --> 04:52:50.480
>> Okay. >> Yeah. The first generation that you're referring to were free to use Clipper Creek stations. >> Okay. >> Which we do, to your point, still have the equipment for at the water treatment plant cuz they were still good. We just, you know, they're just kind of lying around. So they're old Clipper Creek

990
04:52:50.480 --> 04:53:06.958
stations, Oscar. Um >> creeks. Yes. >> Yeah. >> But the ones that we have now, >> we paid 111,000 for them. >> Yes. >> And we haven't had them. I've been on council three years. Yes. So that we haven't had them that long really.

991
04:53:06.958 --> 04:53:23.840
>> And so as we look at and we had 12 of those, but we have some that had a lightning problem. Two of them had a lightning problem. >> And as we look at just turning over this taxpayer funded equipment to you,

992
04:53:23.840 --> 04:53:40.320
when I have dealt with other equipment for networks and all of that, >> let me let me clarify. Let me clarify. So the the majority of the of the costs of this of the upgrade was really the infrastructure if you will, wire breakers, things of that nature. And

993
04:53:40.320 --> 04:53:56.320
then there were chargers because there only 12 chargers here. So of the 12 chargers here, it's probably I would say about $25,000 worth of chargers, right, of the 110,000. The rest is really infrastructure. Um and um and that is

994
04:53:56.320 --> 04:54:13.280
now it's new, right? and it's in place and it's appropriately sized for what you need. So you could kick us out, put somebody else in and that infrastructure is still good. It's your infrastructure. We're not asking for title of your infrastructure. Excuse me. Because we we you know that belongs to you and it goes

995
04:54:13.280 --> 04:54:29.840
all the way back to your panel. What we're saying is the charger itself. And the reason we ask for title that is because we want to have the right to change it out whenever we want to, especially when it gets to the point of being beyond the warranty period and it begins to fail or begins to have issues. We'll change it out. No cost to you.

996
04:54:29.840 --> 04:54:45.360
Right. So you you you kind of are, if you will, you're you're in the third year right now, if I got this right, Zach, third year of a four-year warranty. So now the charger has a reasonable useful life. I mean I had a hand designing it so I can I can say

997
04:54:45.360 --> 04:55:00.958
this with confidence. Useful life of about seven years right meanantime between failure which means that by year six you may get some of them that fall out and then some may last a year nine right but and so that's that's up to us to make sure that we replace it because

998
04:55:00.958 --> 04:55:16.560
now the charging as a service means that thing is our responsibility not yours. Okay. So you don't pay for that going forward. And so what you've already paid that's your infrastructure is kind of your sunk cost, right? But it's the sunk cost that's going to be there for a long

999
04:55:16.560 --> 04:55:37.440
time because unless it gets hit by lightning, that stuff doesn't wear out. Does that answer your question? I just want to be >> it answers my question in respect in regards to the fact that >> the $111,000 that we spent a good good

1000
04:55:37.440 --> 04:55:54.638
portion of that was for infrastructure. It was not for the charging. >> Yeah, it's the installation and the infrastructure around that. >> Okay. So, um I mean that would have been good to know, you know, because truly that's labor that's, you know, and things that are

1001
04:55:54.638 --> 04:56:12.560
not recoupable. If we had a situation where these don't pan out, >> y >> that infrastructure is not helping me in the parking lot anymore. If we said, "No, no, we're not doing chargers." And we're turning over all the equipment

1002
04:56:12.560 --> 04:56:30.160
that we spent 111,000 for. >> Yeah. >> Over to you guys for nothing with no equipment credits whatsoever. So, so that's just like not normal for me because normally when I deal with

1003
04:56:30.160 --> 04:56:47.920
networks, uh, equipment, you have the network, the infrastructure, the labor and all that priced separately and then whatever your servers are or your equipment that you're providing and then that way you you know what you have. And

1004
04:56:47.920 --> 04:57:03.600
so I hadn't I I mean >> for clarity they were priced separately. If you look at the at the original quote, there were there line items in there and the line items say this is how much for installation and and we describe in detail what the installation is. We do this with all customers there.

1005
04:57:03.600 --> 04:57:19.360
All customers have similar questions and then there's line items for the equipment, right? And the and and that in installation so you know using your example, right? I'm so I'm a telecom and data uh in data center guy as well, right? If you build a data center,

1006
04:57:19.360 --> 04:57:35.200
right, and you want to house some some equipment in there and then you say, "Hey, I want to get out of the computing business, you still have a data center, right? And that data center has value, right? Even if you want to remove all the equipment out of it, the data center itself has value. Consider the

1007
04:57:35.200 --> 04:57:51.600
infrastructure is like that data center. You put something in place that has lasting value, right? Now, you could use it for something else. If you could, I don't know, put flock cameras at the end of it and you have power for flock cameras if you want to do that. >> I don't know if that's controversial, right? But but but the reality here is

1008
04:57:51.600 --> 04:58:05.840
you have an infrastruure >> alternative use. >> Alternative use >> anything other than that. >> You you can tell you know why I'm not on your side of the podium. So I'm >> uh I I but I want you to understand that that has value for you regardless of

1009
04:58:05.840 --> 04:58:22.480
what vendor is here, right? >> And and you you've already paid for it, right? It it's like putting conduit in place, right? You've already paid for it. >> Yes. But you know what? Based on what I'm seeing on numbers, the amount of revenue that I might make is really

1010
04:58:22.480 --> 04:58:36.480
small. >> I can take and sell the equipment I've got for $4 to $800. Not put it in because the return is so small, not have to worry about the electric bill, not have to do all those

1011
04:58:36.480 --> 04:58:53.360
things. And guess what? I'd probably end up with more money in my pocket than I would otherwise. Um, so >> yes, ma'am. >> You know, that's why I was thinking an equipment credit

1012
04:58:53.360 --> 04:59:08.638
would make sense, but that's fine. I understand you're not that's not something y'all do. But I >> Yeah, I'm I the the the truth is we're we're running something that's already in place, right? and we're sharing that with you and we're taking on the risk of

1013
04:59:08.638 --> 04:59:25.280
the the cost that goes with that where if if something happens to the equipment, we handle it, right? That's the difference. Um and >> so we're not >> here's what I here's what I would say, right? >> We're not paying a maintenance contract then. >> You're not paying a maintenance contract. >> Okay?

1014
04:59:25.280 --> 04:59:41.520
>> You eliminate a maintenance. So the whatever whatever you are paying us, right? It flips now. We pay you, >> right? >> Okay. Can I just do some quick math? We got $111,91294 upfront capital investment. Is that right?

1015
04:59:41.520 --> 04:59:56.718
>> Just let's call that from a cash flow day one. >> Then we're paying $5,000 a year roughly. >> Yeah. 5,400 for networking. >> Okay. Are there any other costs? No.

1016
04:59:56.718 --> 05:00:12.798
>> So there's the upfront capital outlay. >> Yeah. Yes, that's correct. Electricity would be the only other cost. >> Fair. Okay. So, we got that number and that was I just saw it. Um >> I'm just putting this together. >> It was

1017
05:00:12.798 --> 05:00:27.680
>> to uh the end of Q1 >> I see >> 26 from the beginning electricity was 5,300. >> That's from the from the >> all of them >> from day one December of 23. Okay. So

1018
05:00:27.680 --> 05:00:42.480
111 down 5400. We've paid that twice. 10,200. >> Yes. >> Total life. So 10,200 plus the 111,912,

1019
05:00:42.480 --> 05:01:00.718
right? Plus the electricity costs of 5,372 or 327. So, if I add the 111,000, I'm just going to call it 112,000

1020
05:01:00.718 --> 05:01:17.280
plus the 10,400. Is that good math? You would add those together? >> Yes. >> So, that make 12123 plus the 5,300. We're like 120 130,000 in. >> Mayor, I was just going to say that

1021
05:01:17.280 --> 05:01:32.638
those financial things that you're doing the quick math on, they're at the bottom actually on the financial impact. >> Where is that? Oh, I see. No, that's what I was using. I don't have a total I don't have I know I'm I'm pulling from but I'm adding up total costs for the

1022
05:01:32.638 --> 05:01:49.760
life of the system. So the 111,000 plus those that you just pointed to, I'm got roughly just under $130,000. >> Yes. Add up. >> Just quick math. >> Perfect. >> So 130,000 on the negative side. >> Yes. And then on the positive, the total

1023
05:01:49.760 --> 05:02:04.400
cumulative revenue that's come in from these since it began is 12,568. >> That's as of Q the end of Q1 2026. It's a little more now, but that's probably about what it is. >> Okay. Well, average quarter is about

1024
05:02:04.400 --> 05:02:19.600
looks to be about 12,500 maybe 1,200. So we can just round that up. Call it $14,000, right? Just >> so if I take for the light since this is since December of 2023. >> Yes.

1025
05:02:19.600 --> 05:02:36.080
>> Okay. So, uh December of 24, 25, we're coming up on 26, right? So, we've cleaned three years and uh eight months because we're coming up roughly. Over

1026
05:02:36.080 --> 05:02:51.120
three years, eight months, we've made $14,000 roughly. But we got a sunk cost of 130,000. So we're negative 115,000. >> Yes. >> So if we're making

1027
05:02:51.120 --> 05:03:09.040
four roughly whatever a year it is 40 4,000, we're not going to see our money back. Uh do you see the situation we're in? >> It's going to take uh >> Yeah, I get the the upfront cost and the

1028
05:03:09.040 --> 05:03:25.120
infrastructure and that's out. I I did solar. I know fiveyear payback. This payback doesn't look great, but I understand the strategic side of being able to put stations out. Thatif that that that annual fee is what I didn't

1029
05:03:25.120 --> 05:03:40.400
know going into this that we would pay. And that I'll take responsibility. the 5,320 uh I'm sorry, the uh the $10,200 that you know that makes it just from a an annual standpoint.

1030
05:03:40.400 --> 05:03:55.920
>> We got 15,000 out with electricity costs in your fee and we're only bringing 12,568 in. So, it's got this negative cash flow and plus all that initial upfront. And so when we're talking about alternative

1031
05:03:55.920 --> 05:04:12.240
uses, right, I understand there's scrap value. We could rip the copper out and all that. Sure, I get that, but we need some help. I think we need to figure out a better way to do this.

1032
05:04:12.240 --> 05:04:28.400
>> Yeah, I'm I'm not proposing you rip anything out. What I'm what I'm trying to explain is that what you put in the ground has value for 30 years, right? And if you jettison your your business case in the third year, yeah, >> you're always going to be upside down, right? Because there isn't enough

1033
05:04:28.400 --> 05:04:44.958
utilization yet at the stations to be able to make the vending machine work. It's kind of like putting a putting a a gas station in the middle of nowhere, right? Eventually, the traffic will catch up to you, but you have to be patient. >> But a lot of that cost was trenching to get it out into those remote locations.

1034
05:04:44.958 --> 05:05:00.958
>> Oh, yes. Yeah. It's trenching. It's the panels. So if we're going to run if we go from so teeing off from those I get that you got a shorter interconnection run. That makes perfect sense. A great casino style place would be the beach. That's where people hang out. Slow and

1035
05:05:00.958 --> 05:05:17.120
low tier level two maybe the Clipper Creeks. We've talked about that. But we're going to have to sink massive amount of trenching costs to run electric assuming the nearest power pole or whatever, right? It's like a $100 a foot, I think, or thous

1036
05:05:17.120 --> 05:05:32.638
it depends on what power is already there. There may be places where you have power there already. >> There's not in most of those, especially the convenient beach spots. And so, >> if we take it where we invested, where we have the money, and we tee off and you're like, what you what made sense

1037
05:05:32.638 --> 05:05:49.680
was the C5. Hey, that utilization's higher. We got one there. It'd be a lower cost to tee off maybe. I'm just saying that, right? to parallel daisy chain a few others I guess you could there's yes let me also say this >> over time you get your money back better

1038
05:05:49.680 --> 05:06:06.320
or at a higher rate >> yeah we we have one of the things that our our software does right is that it actually takes the available power at any given location >> and you could put more stations to dispense more because it will share the power amongst those stations right now

1039
05:06:06.320 --> 05:06:23.280
you can't produce power energy cannot be created out of nothing right so whatever energy is there, what happens is more people get to connect. They get a little bit less, but you're still dispensing, right? And so, as a result of that, you you're able to actually drive your revenue up if you do it the right way.

1040
05:06:23.280 --> 05:06:38.160
The other thing is that our software allows for parking fees to be applied when the battery is satisfied, right? That's another angle to in order to to be able to increase revenue. So there pl a few levers here, right, that can be

1041
05:06:38.160 --> 05:06:54.560
thrown to increase revenue, but the real lever comes as more automobiles are available in the marketplace. And at $4 a gallon, it actually is kind of working in the favor of this, right? Uh and so with more automobiles as EVs, even by

1042
05:06:54.560 --> 05:07:11.280
the way, even plug-in hybrids, right? Those those folks that want that say, I don't want to pure battery electric. Yeah. The plug-in hybrids are very efficient when because they have about 50 miles of pure electric, right, before they kick into starting the generator, right, on the car. And that gives you

1043
05:07:11.280 --> 05:07:25.840
distance so you don't have to worry about range anxiety. And so those folks typically learn very quickly that by plugging in as often as you can, like topping off your phone, >> you're able to get great efficiency because you're on pure electric for 50

1044
05:07:25.840 --> 05:07:43.280
miles, right? And so anyway, these are these are all the things right that to kind of be aware of is utilization will come up as utilization comes up and then you and then you throw a few of these extra levers that you know parking parking that's you know in order to

1045
05:07:43.280 --> 05:08:00.320
encourage people to move their car and in the process you get an extra dollar out of it that sort of thing all of that adds up right adds up as the owner of the station. So I mean one thing one thing I I can say to you right you have you have a choice right the choice is we

1046
05:08:00.320 --> 05:08:18.000
would be more than happy to to provide you the service of charging as a service right >> what was that >> we would be more than happy to provide you the service of charging as a service which is what Zag has proposed >> or you could you could keep the charging stations right as your own right and

1047
05:08:18.000 --> 05:08:36.040
wait for utilization to come up right >> afraid we're going to need to extend and um let's get let's do it and then try to wrap this up. And >> I know it's getting late. That's part of the >> I need a charge.

1048
05:08:39.360 --> 05:08:58.878
>> I make a motion to extend to 11:30. >> Got a motion by Mayor Pro Tim and a second by council member Willis. City Clerk, >> Mayor, Mayor Pro Tim Jackson, >> four, >> Council Member King, >> four, >> Mayor Morrison, >> four,

1049
05:08:58.878 --> 05:09:13.360
>> Council Member Shiaak, >> four, >> and Council Member Willis, >> four. >> Motion to extend passes. Thank you, city manager. Thank you for your patience, Oscar. Uh, not your fault. We took up some heavy items today and, uh, we've been going since 1 p.m. >> I'm I'm here at your service, please.

1050
05:09:13.360 --> 05:09:30.560
you're dealing with a bit of a delirious council at this point. I think and our city staff has been here since uh uh hours before we got here and so my heart's go to them too. Thank you for working through it. Sure. >> I think those proposals that you were talking about and those models,

1051
05:09:30.560 --> 05:09:47.200
I see attachment list of proposals. Do we have some of like some specific strategies like the data you shared about those things and some of the things you're verbally talking through >> have has something you put together that if you looked at us and maybe some

1052
05:09:47.200 --> 05:10:03.360
specific recommendations to >> I can I can say I I'm not sure. I would have to talk to Audrey uh to see what's been on our team who interfaces directly with with your team, right? And and with Zach specifically, right? But but well, we want to do what you want to do. We

1053
05:10:03.360 --> 05:10:20.000
want to alleviate your pain the most possible, right? One one thing that folks are some some municipalities are saying whatever it is, we got to cut the the cash cost going forward, right? Can't afford it. So they treat the infrastructure as okay, that's a

1054
05:10:20.000 --> 05:10:36.080
decision that we made. It's already there. It's not going away. Let's let's utilize what utilize it in the best way we can and utilize it by doing a revenue share and that way you're not you're not incurring any costs and you're getting some incremental revenue out of it. But

1055
05:10:36.080 --> 05:10:52.878
it will take a very long time at that rate because we're we're we're taking on all the costs and so therefore we have to be able to pay for that too, right? Uh and so but if you keep the vending machine which is the alternative the the first path you were on then you will get

1056
05:10:52.878 --> 05:11:10.560
more more of the margin you get to keep the margin you still have to pay the electricity obviously to the electric company I think it's FPNL here you still have to pay that and then we you know we our technology is really the software license is what it is right and so but

1057
05:11:10.560 --> 05:11:25.600
as utilization comes up you should be able to have enough because I'm seeing 11 megawatts being dispensed and if if you're dispensing 11 megawws and you set it at market price, right? So meaning

1058
05:11:25.600 --> 05:11:43.120
the visitors come in and they they may not pay 25 cents a kilowatt. Maybe they pay 35 cents a kilowatt, which is market price in most places in Central Florida, I would say. If you're >> 35 cents >> 35 cents, yes, sir. >> Oh, I'm sure gas prices go up. the the

1059
05:11:43.120 --> 05:12:00.400
charging trays to compete. >> Well, I think you know speaking in megawws and stuff that we're talking about dollars and if that if 35 cents times 11 megawatt hours or kilowatt hours, whatever it is, >> I think you see our pain, our challenge. I see it. >> Uh we're staring at a a big uh

1060
05:12:00.400 --> 05:12:17.040
investment. I do understand that we sunk that cost. Maybe there's a hybrid approach where we can do some test some other models. But how can we recoup this? Um if there are alternative uses, if there are strategies to get uh the

1061
05:12:17.040 --> 05:12:32.320
payback one of obviously the the annual overhead, we think you have direct control over annually the 50 >> uh $100. Um and so anything any new proposals I know

1062
05:12:32.320 --> 05:12:50.638
that's all I have to say. I we appreciate you. It was unfortunate that they went down and uh now we're looking at $8,900 to get them back working again which add that to that's we haven't made it take

1063
05:12:50.638 --> 05:13:06.240
us two more years of charging just to replace them and it sets us back basically two years of charging revenue. >> Right. One of the things that I always recommend to folks is um in property insurance, right? that would pay for this uh whenever because this is really

1064
05:13:06.240 --> 05:13:21.760
it looks from our perspective a lightning strike is what it was, right? >> And so and we live in Florida so uh lightning strikes happen. Property values that will pay for uh the the electronics being damaged on a lightning strike um is I think an important

1065
05:13:21.760 --> 05:13:37.760
consideration. >> That's a good idea. Thank you. Yeah. >> Council, any more questions for Oscar at this time? Discussion item. >> Thank you, Oscar. >> My my pleasure. I wish I answered all your questions. I and I and I I really I I want to put myself at your disposal.

1066
05:13:37.760 --> 05:13:53.200
If you have ideas, if you want us to consider things, we will I will turn every model you want, right? But um I I you're my customer and I want you to feel as though you've gotten the value uh by engaging with us. >> Any ideas that you can observe for us to

1067
05:13:53.200 --> 05:14:09.920
do? I know our team here, we love Zack too and the whole team. >> Oh yeah. No, I mean you you you can't find a smarter guy, right, doing this for you. So, for sure. Thank you. >> Yeah, >> Zach, I'm going to come back to you. >> Anything else?

1068
05:14:09.920 --> 05:14:25.040
>> I was just going to say if just staff just advise if you could provide direction. My recommendation to given the budget situation would be to defer. We've already sunk the cost. defer off to the the the cast model and forego the

1069
05:14:25.040 --> 05:14:41.440
the down stations essentially and reduce the scope of the program. We know they'll be well used still. There's thousands of units or um thousands of charges, plugins literally that have occurred. >> Yeah. >> Um I see a lot of individuals actually from Blue Origin over here that come

1070
05:14:41.440 --> 05:14:57.600
over and they charge up. I've met them. Um, >> so that way it could just be completely moved off our dime while still providing the service. >> And maybe we can mess with the the or test some different rates on them if that doesn't we're to acquire too much.

1071
05:14:57.600 --> 05:15:12.480
>> Yeah, we we can also always go up with the rate. If we moved over to the to the cast model, it' be a fixed 35 cents per kilowatt hour. And right now we're pretty far below that actually. Uh the resident rate is 15 cents that goes up to 20 and then the non-resident's 20

1072
05:15:12.480 --> 05:15:29.040
that goes up to 25 after four hours. So >> well that would triple the payback price. >> Couldn't hurt. >> Okay. >> And that the idle fee is more too. >> And if we had a flexible contract where if a year from now it wasn't panning out

1073
05:15:29.040 --> 05:15:44.000
for us where we would be able to get out of it without paying huge fees, that would be that would make it worth it. I I think if it's mutually beneficial, I'm open to to exploring whatever language you you believe is there, right? Um

1074
05:15:44.000 --> 05:15:59.040
because um look, >> uh again, u our goal is to make sure that people have a great infrastructure that works well, right? And and because if they do, then they keep coming back, they don't get upset. Um and and and it's human behavior, right? If if you go

1075
05:15:59.040 --> 05:16:16.400
to a gas station, just use that model for a moment. Go to a gas station and once or twice the pumps don't work, you may decide not to go back ever again, right? And so our goal is to make sure that it's working, working in the best way possible, that we're able to repair

1076
05:16:16.400 --> 05:16:32.240
it quickly and effectively. And uh then you and I don't have to have a conversation about, hey, how come how come the quality is not there? Um, we we may still have a payback uh discussion because we still all collectively need to have enough cars out there uh to be

1077
05:16:32.240 --> 05:16:49.760
able to stop and charge, but um my goal is to make sure that uh you guys get, you know, the best service you can possibly get from us. >> Thank you, Council Member Shory. I'm just curious, what what do our competitors charge per kilowatt hour? >> It's usually around that range.

1078
05:16:49.760 --> 05:17:04.718
>> 35 >> 30 35 cents. I I guess my concern will be we're because we're kind of nearly doubling the rate. If we're charging 20 and 15, are we going to is that going to drive people away? >> I think that if the person the other PE reason people leave gas stations, not

1079
05:17:04.718 --> 05:17:18.878
because they don't work, but if they paid 15 cents yesterday and then tomorrow it's now 30 cents. I don't think all of them go away. I think some of the locals are just going to >> Yeah, I think it's they could, but I foresee them not for

1080
05:17:18.878 --> 05:17:36.320
for maybe two reasons. one, we have a condoheavy population that would probably utilize these because they have no other choice and also because there's only technically one other public charging site in the city and that's the Tesla Superchargers by the Mango

1081
05:17:36.320 --> 05:17:52.080
Marketplace. The others are on hotel properties that generally I I asked I was like, "Do you guys provide public charging?" And they're like, "No, these are really only meant for customers." Um, so in a sense, we have the market They wouldn't really be able to go

1082
05:17:52.080 --> 05:18:08.878
anywhere else. So, I think they would come and 35 cents is still not all that much for a fill up. >> I mean, do we know how much Tesla charges? >> I'd have to look. It's definitely more than what we charge because they're giving a higher level of service because it's faster. You know, those are the ones that pump in so much electrons.

1083
05:18:08.878 --> 05:18:25.040
You're charging in 20 to 30 minutes. Ours don't do that. So, they're paying more. >> If I can add something to that. Uh, so Tesla has a tendency to vary by sight. So, the price varies by the site. it's not uniform. Uh location, uh also time of day in some cases as well. So, you

1084
05:18:25.040 --> 05:18:42.320
know, 6:00 p.m. to 10 p.m. is a very heavily used in some of the metros and so between 6:00 and 10 p.m. you pay a little bit more and they call it a convenience fee, right? So, um that that's the other thing. Uh again, uh we have we don't call it a convenience fee,

1085
05:18:42.320 --> 05:18:59.120
we call it an access fee that could be charged and still leave the kilowatt hour price lower, right? So there's a few levers that can be thrown here uh because we've got lots of price flexibility in our system. And um uh I I

1086
05:18:59.120 --> 05:19:15.920
think there's there it's it's worthwhile kind of investigating those because we want to work with you, right? We don't want to turn anybody off. We want drivers to be happy. We have over 150 daily drivers that use our system. 150,000, excuse me, daily drivers. And

1087
05:19:15.920 --> 05:19:32.480
and those drivers um you know uh people that are new to EVs always are learning. They don't understand the difference and they don't even understand the the equivalency between a kilowatt and a gallon of gas, right? Which uh you know sometimes is difficult to tell depending

1088
05:19:32.480 --> 05:19:49.040
on the automobile that you're in. So everyone's learning and as they learn they get used to something and then you know changes are the things that they react to really. >> Thank you Oscar. >> I think we're going to committed to work through it. We want to make a good decision on the investment we made and we appreciate your willingness to work

1089
05:19:49.040 --> 05:20:06.480
with us. >> Uh our director recommends uh basically hold off for now and uh I agree with you. I think if we can explore ways to to to to

1090
05:20:06.480 --> 05:20:21.360
test on what we do have working, that's probably the most prudent way. I did have a card on this. Mr. Capezy, you are uh going to win the citizen engagement award here tonight. This is your third comment. >> Please come forward.

1091
05:20:21.360 --> 05:20:38.718
>> I'm used to being a part of the the process, so uh I I always feel like I have something to say. Um I agree. I think you guys should should push it off as well. um you've already spent the investment on it. Um or if you do have him take it, well, for one, cities just

1092
05:20:38.718 --> 05:20:53.520
should not run businesses. We can't run businesses. We we're just we're not good at it. We don't know how to make money. But um uh the thing is you guys you guys spent you spent the investment. If if he

1093
05:20:53.520 --> 05:21:08.718
did take it over, I wouldn't say here we're going to pay another 8,000 to fix that too and give it to you as well. that he's talking about expanding uh more that there you could expand those two that are that are messed up. So that's your expansion in my in my

1094
05:21:08.718 --> 05:21:26.718
opinion. Um also if you guys and he's talking about beach, you know, expanding maybe beaches, more places. uh if you if you do go to charging for parking, you're going to lose money on those spots compared to you know if he puts uh you know electric charging stations

1095
05:21:26.718 --> 05:21:41.760
because you'll make more money charging for parking than you would charging for or getting his secondary uh revenue from from that. Um so you know I I don't mind giving stuff away but I don't want to give stuff away

1096
05:21:41.760 --> 05:21:58.718
pay to give stuff away in my opinion. So that's that's the way I look at that. But um I don't want to take up more of your time. Yeah. >> Do you have >> Do you have uh a charging stations in Cocoa Beach? >> So we we do, but I I honestly I think

1097
05:21:58.718 --> 05:22:15.280
the whole the solar thing we just aren't quite there yet. I think that the EV charging stations I think we were sold you know the the the green idea that uh you know you can make all this money on charging when the on a slow charger for a city you're not going to make the

1098
05:22:15.280 --> 05:22:32.160
money back because the kilowatt hours you're not going to it takes so long to charge to make that money is just not worth it. So, in theory, it's nice, but you're only going to make the money on a fast charger because you can pump that that electric in there and make that

1099
05:22:32.160 --> 05:22:48.320
money quickly. >> Most people, uh, especially the condos, they're going to have slow chargers at their condos because they're living there. They're staying there overnight and they're plugging them in there. They're not going to go to city hall and charge their phone and then ride their bike to their condo, you know, and use them long term. Unless they're going to

1100
05:22:48.320 --> 05:23:04.080
do uh 5 hour meetings, you know, maybe they'll make you guys will make some money. But uh no, sorry. >> No, thank you. >> Yeah, >> it is a weird time. I think uh market will determine and uh sounds like we got

1101
05:23:04.080 --> 05:23:20.560
them. We're going to continue to talk through it and work through it. And I know um this is all we can do at this point under the circumstances we're in right now. So, council, is there anything else we want to do on this one?

1102
05:23:20.560 --> 05:23:35.840
>> Mr. Kapzy could sit up here next meeting if he wants. You could sit up here next meeting if you want. >> Honorary seat, >> honorary honorary staff member. >> Thank you again, Oscar. >> Zach will move on,

1103
05:23:35.840 --> 05:23:50.560
>> I think. Okay, if that's okay, council should say. Okay. All right, folks. We are at 11:24. Uh, public EV charging. We got three more. reindeer run budgeting parking

1104
05:23:50.560 --> 05:24:07.680
revenue prohibitive permanent board at properties. Do we want to move one or we want to stay in the order? Uh >> so mayor, if I may, we have a director that's been here all night for the reindeer run and >> then stay in order. >> She can be heard on that item if that's

1105
05:24:07.680 --> 05:24:33.040
fine. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Do what you need. Okay. All right. Item 10.3, reindeer run budgeting and beneficiary. >> Good evening, council. >> Good evening.

1106
05:24:33.040 --> 05:24:49.440
So beyond the explanation that was provided in the summary as far as the history of what this race has benefited, the bigger discussion that you need to have is do you want to put a minimum, and I do mean minimum, of $10,000 that

1107
05:24:49.440 --> 05:25:05.120
I've already removed from the budget, the one that you guys are considering to host this race with the knowledge that there's never a guarantee on how much

1108
05:25:05.120 --> 05:25:20.958
we're going to generate with it. We did not get an abundance of support. Um I think with this most recent event, you saw how hard it is to get cash money, not gift cards, cash money when it comes

1109
05:25:20.958 --> 05:25:38.400
to donations. and cash money is what's needed because gift cards don't really cut it when it comes to this type of event. So, not only do you have to decide whether or not to put this in the

1110
05:25:38.400 --> 05:25:54.878
budget, but you also need to decide ultimately where it would go, where the funds would go and how much investment city leadership wants to take in helping to support the event. because it does

1111
05:25:54.878 --> 05:26:12.878
not exist the way it once existed where you have one part-time employee whose job is 95% this race and running around beating the streets, knocking on doors and and doing all of

1112
05:26:12.878 --> 05:26:28.160
that fundraising work. So it's it's a very different world when we look at this race going forward than we ever have in the past 30 years of its existence. So do we want to do it? Where

1113
05:26:28.160 --> 05:26:45.120
does the funds go? How are we going to support the root mission of making it successful? Those are the three questions we have to answer. >> Thank you very much. Um I'll go first. We all love this race.

1114
05:26:45.120 --> 05:27:04.080
But my uh initial reaction is we would only spend the money needed to find another organization to take it over and we would I think potentially want to have some sort of say in or request in

1115
05:27:04.080 --> 05:27:21.280
where the money goes the cause. We were just talking like sea oats a cause of some sort. Um, that's my initial thought and I know the strain that put on the city staff. I remember Mary Jane working tirelessly to pull off the event that

1116
05:27:21.280 --> 05:27:39.040
she did. Um, and but it will take some time and resources to potent I hope that we can find maybe a large corporate sponsor. Those are just initial thoughts, council, if there's better ideas and the city, I think, can be involved in permitting and

1117
05:27:39.040 --> 05:27:56.320
and I mean, I'm I think having it here would be great, but that would be where my initial thoughts are is we're still willing to host it, but as far as managing it, collecting the funds, getting the sponsors, and all of the work that goes into it,

1118
05:27:56.320 --> 05:28:14.080
I don't think that this year we should. But we could put the time and energy in to find someone to take that template and do it. I just jumped out early on. So, >> okay. I have a meeting tomorrow morning with the representative from SpaceX. Is

1119
05:28:14.080 --> 05:28:30.558
that something that you would be okay if I approached her about it and said, you just kind of threw it out there and said, "What do you think? we would love to do this and splash SpaceX's name on it if you'll sponsor the whole thing. >> Well, I think getting into the

1120
05:28:30.558 --> 05:28:46.958
sponsoring absolutely, but what I'm saying is is this an organization needs to lead the sponsorship efforts, right? Because that's a lot of the time that went into it was getting the sponsors, collecting the cash.

1121
05:28:46.958 --> 05:29:03.200
>> And so SpaceX, I think, absolutely is >> if they were the sole sponsor But who's going to organize the all the work that goes into planning the race? >> Any swag. >> So it's not just the money to print the

1122
05:29:03.200 --> 05:29:19.440
stuff we did that's in that little >> Yeah. And my department is smaller now than it was. >> Yeah. In December. >> So I think step one is to find the host, we'll call it. Well, we're the host, the physical site, but the >> the Justin May. Yeah. >> So, races like this tend to be

1123
05:29:19.440 --> 05:29:36.000
successful when a an independent body takes it over and runs it, an an association of sorts, a nonprofit, and it becomes their event, and they determine, you know, where the proceeds go based on whoever they are. And the

1124
05:29:36.000 --> 05:29:50.638
city just is involved from a permitting standpoint, public safety standpoint. We we make sure the roads are clear. you you dot all your eyes and cross your tees with our ordinances but you just take care of the whole thing. So a suggestion would be if instead of making

1125
05:29:50.638 --> 05:30:07.120
a decision now I know it is July if there are some thoughts on the dis or even with staff about an association or group of folks to approach that might be interested and then see if they would take it on and then we just assist them

1126
05:30:07.120 --> 05:30:22.240
transition toward you know them taking it over. We support them like I said and then it just becomes their event moving forward. >> Yeah. >> We would like it that to retain the request and rights to have it here. >> Sure. >> If I absolutely unless I'm missing

1127
05:30:22.240 --> 05:30:38.798
unless that comes with I know that's time and resources but >> setting up the stages, the awards, the medals, all that we did the city staff and and that was an immense amount of work. I think that is it is

1128
05:30:38.798 --> 05:30:53.280
>> hand. >> I agree to find an organization and an association that'd be willing to lead and then we can point SpaceX and the sponsors to it. >> And what better thing I mean this would be so good for SpaceX and that's how I'll pitch it because this is Cape

1129
05:30:53.280 --> 05:31:09.440
Canaveral. >> I mean it's a natural fit. I think all of the, you know, Blue Origin, SpaceX, every we know the the corporate sponsors that are in this area and interested, the hotels. Um, I think that the

1130
05:31:09.440 --> 05:31:26.080
organization that can be the management company of the funds and the is is the work that we should put in as good stewards to hand it off. Can I throw one more monkey wrench at

1131
05:31:26.080 --> 05:31:41.200
you? >> Sure. >> Ready? >> We're not the only local race that happens that day. >> They do the 10 mileer up on the space center that day. >> Oh,

1132
05:31:41.200 --> 05:31:59.440
>> so your sponsors might be double booked >> given that maybe this is the year we don't do it. Could they do it on a different day or is that like a significant Well, again, we're getting into the planning of that. >> They've already actually um rented the

1133
05:31:59.440 --> 05:32:16.240
Cape Center for their packet pickup. >> Oh, >> h interesting. >> Cuz the Rison was unable to host them this year. So, the Cape Center will be enjoying the traffic of approximately 3,000 people

1134
05:32:16.240 --> 05:32:30.240
over the course of that packet pickup. Can you get them to run down Ridgewood wearing Santa hats >> the day they pick up? We'll just change it >> and turn it into a 10 a 10 mileer instead of a 10K. >> Yeah.

1135
05:32:30.240 --> 05:32:48.400
>> Are they remunerating us for that use of that building? >> They're paying the rental fee. Yes, >> they are. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. They're not hosting the race in town here. They host it up on base. Right. Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, given given the situation, the budgetary

1136
05:32:48.400 --> 05:33:04.718
concerns that we have, I don't think we'd be out of line if we said we're going to be assisting them, but this year we're going to not do it and maybe we'll resume it next year. Take a year off for for legitimate reasons.

1137
05:33:04.718 --> 05:33:21.520
>> Yeah. I think finding another I think between now and the next meeting if we can think about an association or an organization that could manage it and the worst case would be we we take the year off >> right >> and it could hit us tomorrow and we go

1138
05:33:21.520 --> 05:33:37.440
we got it and >> if we had strings attached location that'd be great >> if that's the case I think we can put it under maybe managers matters I don't know if it will require a vote um just put it under managers matters to revisit it and if there's somebody if not we'll

1139
05:33:37.440 --> 05:33:52.958
get some guidance at that point. >> How does how does an organization fairly select another organization to take over? >> I think that would it was a vote for the city's council to fund it.

1140
05:33:52.958 --> 05:34:10.320
I don't know. I guess that came along with the >> Well, in in the beginning ito it went to the United Way. I don't know how that was decided. When we partnered with BCSO, it funded PAL. PAL went away to an

1141
05:34:10.320 --> 05:34:27.280
extent. The city assumed control over it until it couldn't handle it anymore because our partners in Cocoa Beach were unable to provide the police side of the police athletic league. So, at that point, how do we go about

1142
05:34:27.280 --> 05:34:44.160
selecting an organization? Is that a bidding process that we would have to do? >> I think that's a good question. >> Mayor, we have a point of order again. >> We might as well just camp out here real quick.

1143
05:34:44.160 --> 05:35:00.080
>> Let's just extend it to 12:30. >> Said that it's like the millage rate. You can go high and finish earlier. >> Yeah. >> Let's just extend it to 12:30. We've got two more agenda items and then report five minutes. Yeah,

1144
05:35:00.080 --> 05:35:18.558
>> I have the hurricane hot cots in the back >> life straws. >> Lost 10 minutes in motions to extend at least >> roll call is not required. It's a procedural It's a procedural motion.

1145
05:35:18.558 --> 05:35:34.080
>> That is the best news. >> All right. So, make the motion. Make the motion we extend to 12:30 a.m. >> Second. >> Got a motion by Mayor Pro Tim Jackson and a second by

1146
05:35:34.080 --> 05:35:50.000
Council Member Shoryak. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? >> Okay. Let the record show we extended to 12:30. >> All right. Before we go any further, do you want me to broach this subject with

1147
05:35:50.000 --> 05:36:07.760
her tomorrow when I meet with her? I think it might be a little early. Is it premature? >> Samantha. >> No. Um, uh, Kate, >> Riley, >> Riley, Riley. Um, Riley is aware of the race. We just have not approached any type of sponsorship with them, but they

1148
05:36:07.760 --> 05:36:24.080
are aware of the race because we weren't quite there yet. >> We already in are in a conversation with SpaceX about another project. >> Oh, okay. >> So, um, All right. >> We should probably Yeah. coordinate efforts. Well, that's why I asked I I didn't want to step out ahead of my

1149
05:36:24.080 --> 05:36:40.958
skis, as they say. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> I think between now managers matters, we can answer that question on how we would do that if needed, if we have the rights to it. I don't know if there's an LLC or an incorporated entity with Reindeer

1150
05:36:40.958 --> 05:36:58.080
Run. I mean, do we have any ownership rights and have time to look at that? >> It's just our event. >> Okay. Well, if that's the case, uh I like the idea of managers matters given an update and maybe we can find an

1151
05:36:58.080 --> 05:37:13.840
entity that can take it over. But my thought would be when we get into the budget this year, I don't think it's something we should fund unless there's just minimal cost to go out and find someone to take it over. But

1152
05:37:13.840 --> 05:37:31.798
we can vote about that the at the budget >> and if that be gives heartburn for us, uh, Council Member King said maybe it's better to just do a year off and see where we are. >> Mhm. >> So, yeah.

1153
05:37:32.798 --> 05:37:47.840
>> Thank you for being patient, hanging out with us. Mayor, if I may, just to Council Member King's point, your meeting with SpaceX tomorrow, I would not be afraid to ask things like what you proposed, reindeer

1154
05:37:47.840 --> 05:38:04.160
run or not. SpaceX is um I think really trying to get out into the communities and they have instructed us, the same person you're meeting with, to just ask. The worst they'll say is no. But they they've been very uh complimentary of what we have so far

1155
05:38:04.160 --> 05:38:20.718
asked of them. And we we're steadily building that relationship. So, I would definitely encourage you to ask. >> Well, I don't I I don't given what the uh city manager has said, I don't want to >> actually I was going to withdraw that because Zach has been working more

1156
05:38:20.718 --> 05:38:36.718
closely with SpaceX Blue Origin than I have. Okay. And I just said that because I know of another project, right? But he's more uh in line with what tuned to it. >> So, if he suggests that then feel free. >> Okay. All right. All right. I'll approach it with

1157
05:38:36.718 --> 05:38:53.840
>> we have in writing if basically to the tune of if you have ideas >> please let us know >> really all right >> the worst as they say is no >> okay that position was created to strengthen the relationship in the east coast they did it out in Texas and then

1158
05:38:53.840 --> 05:39:08.320
once the >> the vibration started going pun intended >> uh they uh >> they advertised that position and I haven't met Riley yet that I look forward to. >> I think you'll enjoy your talk with her.

1159
05:39:08.320 --> 05:39:28.878
>> Also, um would we be willing to change the date of our run so so as not to coincide with the uh space center run. >> We could we've already locked in our date for this year. >> Um we could try to change it. Um that's

1160
05:39:28.878 --> 05:39:43.520
something that is done almost a year in advance. We already have people registered for this race. Okay. Well, how many I mean hundreds? >> A dozen? >> No. >> Okay. I mean, if if it's if that's the

1161
05:39:43.520 --> 05:40:00.718
only sticking point, can we get Can we get around it? >> Absolutely. It's our race. We can do whatever we want with that. >> There you go. That's what I was I was hoping to hear that. Okay. Good. Good. >> But just know that when you >> you have to lock in a date with those timing companies.

1162
05:40:00.718 --> 05:40:15.680
>> Yeah. >> Because without them, you don't have a race. Yeah. >> And there's only so many weekends and so many Saturdays >> where you can do something like that >> in the state of Florida. I race I do

1163
05:40:15.680 --> 05:40:32.400
typically between eight and 10 trail races a year. >> I only do them between the end of May and I won't go do my first one until October. It's just too hot.

1164
05:40:32.400 --> 05:40:47.920
So, >> okay. All right. Well, we can play with that. If if they if they're agreeable to taking it over, maybe they'll set the date. >> Yeah.

1165
05:40:47.920 --> 05:41:02.638
>> All right. >> I think it's great. >> It's worth a try. >> Thank you, Molly. Hopefully, we clarified a few things, but we'll get through it. All right. Um, if

1166
05:41:02.638 --> 05:41:17.840
we're ready to move on, item 10.3 done. We're now on item 10.4, parking revenue. We get city manager or >> Well, I'll defer to council member Joryak. >> Yes, floor is yours. >> Actually, I got the idea from the city

1167
05:41:17.840 --> 05:41:34.878
manager and I don't know uh you got it from somebody some I don't but to use the uh what we call now the million-dollar parking lot and generate some revenue by renting it out to cruise ship passengers. I I guess I'd like to see find out how we can do it. Can we just do a test of this park app or

1168
05:41:34.878 --> 05:41:52.400
whatever apps are out there? Let's just do something to try and make some money off of that >> piece of piece of uh land until we can do something else with it. So, I know you've told me that I guess Zach is working on Yep. >> something. >> Zach's back. All right. So, um yes, we

1169
05:41:52.400 --> 05:42:08.480
had a staff member look into this. Um, the park app seemed to be a peer-to-peer app specifically for uh a private property individual to rent out their driveway. But so that one didn't seem super

1170
05:42:08.480 --> 05:42:24.400
applicable to what you were talking about, council member, but there are obviously many other parking companies, paid parking companies that could be uh investigated. And we went through two or three and kind of came to the conclusion based on what they were saying is that

1171
05:42:24.400 --> 05:42:39.280
because a lot of these systems are now virtual, there really isn't any physical infrastructure. It's all softwarebased. Really, anything could technically be done. You could set it up in a way where it is for long-term parking for 3-day cruises, 7-day cruises. I think there'd

1172
05:42:39.280 --> 05:42:55.120
have to be some level of infrastructure, that being said, put in place to make sure it it is identified as a specific cruise. long-term parking facility if that's what the council wished. Um, but to that I would also say if if the

1173
05:42:55.120 --> 05:43:11.760
council is so interested in continuing the beach and paid parking discussion for the sake of efficiency and um, you know, just just having the right context, it would probably be prudent that the that the system be the same if that is something that you wanted to do

1174
05:43:11.760 --> 05:43:28.878
just you know to to make it easy to talk to. it'd be it start to could be conflicting to have multiple companies with multiple lots, but I do think it's possible. It's just we'd have to do the the leg work. Um, and uh and understanding also that the lot would uh

1175
05:43:28.878 --> 05:43:44.320
be closed off to residents that use the Nancy Hansen or the dog park and we'd have to navigate that. And then also for how it works with Friday Fest because I know that's now become a pretty integral area for staging Friday fest which has been actually been very helpful. I don't think we kind of u determined that it

1176
05:43:44.320 --> 05:44:00.958
would be that helpful, but it it ended up being. But I think with enough research and investigation and time, anything's possible, but we just didn't want to overlap. If council had a direction on the beach end paid parking, they should probably be the same entity and that could be configured probably

1177
05:44:00.958 --> 05:44:17.280
pretty easy on their end software-wise. So, it's it's just up to you guys with what you'd like to do. >> So, >> does that make sense? >> Yeah. And one of the consideration is we have a CIP looking at um the Nancy Hansen and how to expand the grounds over there for our use. We have been in

1178
05:44:17.280 --> 05:44:32.080
discussion about we have some shuffleboard courts possibly converting those into pickle ball. We have the handball courts over there and just expanding potentially we want to bring this back to council at some point. potentially expanding the footprint over

1179
05:44:32.080 --> 05:44:47.680
there to where we can increase the number of vendors that come to Fridayf Fest and just make more proactive use of that space that's really just green space now and not being totally utilized. So, if that is a concept that this council wants to pursue, it should

1180
05:44:47.680 --> 05:45:03.440
take that into consideration with this conversation. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, well, you know, I was talking with a friend recently and she was talking about going to Europe at Christmas time because she wants to

1181
05:45:03.440 --> 05:45:20.160
visit all these countries that have these Christmas villages and maybe we don't do a reindeer run, but maybe we do a kind of pseudo Friday fest only call it Christmas fest and use those areas and and and have vendors set up whatever

1182
05:45:20.160 --> 05:45:34.638
and make it a Christmas theme. >> Just a thought. We do that with the December Friday Fest. It's called Holiday in the City. >> Well, let's expand it. Let's expand it and utilize, you know, the areas that we're talking about, the shuffleboard court, etc., etc.

1183
05:45:34.638 --> 05:45:53.200
>> I do like the idea of >> expanding >> in the grass. Yeah. So I think the concepts that we're weighing again, you know, weighing out here are we have a parking lot and can we generate revenue through just that parking lot or can we generate revenue

1184
05:45:53.200 --> 05:46:10.160
from the area that that parking lot supports? In which case do you want to charge in that parking lot or do you want to focus on generating revenue through those events >> or or using the parking lot for vendors

1185
05:46:10.160 --> 05:46:26.000
>> to set up their set up their their tents their Yes. Yes. >> Yes. Something we talked about instead of I mean parking revenue one I like the idea of testing. I think if it's low friction, it would be >> a test >> because I went on their website parked

1186
05:46:26.000 --> 05:46:44.240
and just put in that I had I think 25 spaces I put in and it told me you could make $7,000 a month, some kind of right around that area. So I, you know, just for maybe city attorney can tell me, can we just test that out for a week? I don't think it's a permanent commitment.

1187
05:46:44.240 --> 05:47:00.080
>> Just to see see if there's a market out there. See if we could try and make a little bit of money off of that million $1.2 $2 million investment >> agency. Basically, you list your lot. >> Yeah. And I I told him I had 25 spots and it said, "Okay, you potentially could make x I think it was like seven grand a month

1188
05:47:00.080 --> 05:47:16.160
>> in revenue." So, I mean, that's >> when you're not using it as a Christmas place, >> right? But and we can we could not it doesn't have to be a permanent thing. If we decide during December we don't want to rent it out for cruise parking, we don't rent it out for cruise parking. But the rest of the year, >> why don't we look into it?

1189
05:47:16.160 --> 05:47:32.480
>> Yeah, that's that's what I'm asking. tower. That's all we can do. I'm interested. >> I am too. There are people that are doing this with their driveway >> and we've got a big driveway. >> That's what >> it could literally end up making us more money than a Friday booth.

1190
05:47:32.480 --> 05:47:48.638
>> If we could move on that and test it quickly, it would not be anything with the beach in paid parking. I think you could probably turn it off just as fast as you could turn it on type deal. >> Yeah. And uh >> I mean if I if I was renting out a spot

1191
05:47:48.638 --> 05:48:04.480
in my driveway and I you know what it's Christmas week I'm gonna have company. I don't think you're obligated to rent it out all the time. I think it's a when you want to do it like just like Airbnbs and stuff like that. >> Yeah. Open and available. So with that,

1192
05:48:04.480 --> 05:48:18.638
my thought and I shared this with the city manager expanding on we do a great job with Friday fest themes Christmas all that through the year and I think expanding it under there but thinking about and this is things that I in

1193
05:48:18.638 --> 05:48:36.798
fairness to our director have talked is that parking it is an important staging area but what you said council member King about not just parking but getting back to you know think of that as a available space for outdoor events and

1194
05:48:36.798 --> 05:48:53.040
food trucks. We could test that potentially. Now, this stuff takes work. You got it. Somebody's got to get the word out and do it very different than the parking. But if we had a food truck day once a month, we have that. We got Friday fest once a month. Maybe we go to two that theoretically you could say a

1195
05:48:53.040 --> 05:49:10.000
food truck could rent there. You could list it if you want to come set up every day of the week. You're basically buying four spots, right? And if that be good barbecue or any of the other ones wanted to come, >> that requires inspections before they serve it every single time they set up

1196
05:49:10.000 --> 05:49:24.958
by the fire department which incurs a charge. >> Well, maybe we can work on our code. I know we made it a little bit more friendly, but those are the things that uh I'd be interested in. farmers markets,

1197
05:49:24.958 --> 05:49:41.200
>> you know, you basically uh you're >> you're booking that site for different types of events >> and it's so visible. It's right out there on A1A. >> This will take time. This isn't overnight, but the parking's fast. >> Yeah, the parking thing. We could start

1198
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that tomorrow and just see if there's demand for it and just try it out. But we don't try anything, we'll never know. >> That's true. So, I mean, there's a pile of money sitting there potentially that we could have and help us out with our budget, and it wouldn't be I don't think anybody would uh have an issue with it

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in our city like they do. I know I think there's an issue with uh people are parking there for Nancy Hansen. Well, the parking lot for on the other side of the tennis courts is always empty because they don't want to walk the 100 feet to from that parking lot. And they're going to exercise and play

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pickle ball anyway. So maybe that's a good warm-up to walk 100 ft from where you're supposed to park and free up free up the other parking lot so we can make some money off of it. >> Starting in the end of September, the parking lot on the um east side that you mentioned will be used for the staging for the Filillmore project.

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>> I was just about to say that we just have to consider We just have to consider that >> there will be no actual handicap accessible parking for the Nancy Hansen property at that time for that duration. >> So this is a good >> But we've got I think we've got plenty of parking. the library, the other spot next to uh where we actually have have

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Friday fest. >> So, are we going to charge them for the amount of spaces that they're taking up for their staging? >> Set the park set the park tap up for that >> parking lot. I think the idea is wellreceived and I think we can do we

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can try what we can try and do what we can do and um >> and and we don't have to rent the whole place out. We can say hey we're only we're going to do 10 spaces or something. >> Yeah. >> Just >> little bit incremental revenue.

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>> This is budget related. We're going to be coming back here. Maybe we haven't updated our next budget hearing and we can talk or we can choose to talk about it openly in that and so >> very good. So we're tableabling it until future budget discussions.

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>> Yeah, I think council member Shy I wanted to get some feedback. I think we can't do it if we got staging, but maybe we can look in a little further than what >> How many spots are there in that lot? The Nancy Hansen lot. Do you off top of

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your head? Do you know >> which side? >> The east one that's going to be used for construction. >> I don't know. >> I mean, I don't think there's as many there. >> Maybe 14 including the ADA. >> Yeah, there's probably 14 15 off. >> So, we've got 35 in that lot. So lease

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14, there's 21 we can rent out. >> Why don't we lease you the rights to the >> I I'd be happy to do it. I'll pay you a commission. Yeah. >> Well, you taught us you can make $7,000. So the city our city attorney draft it. We have to put it up to bid. You buy it

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for $5,000 and then you'll make your 2,000 when you rent it. I think that app might have been optimistic. >> Yeah, >> I think it's I don't know. >> Is that 5,000 a spot? Sign me up for several of them.

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>> Okay. Well, thank y'all. Uh, Council Member Shoryak, >> my next one. Okay. >> Okay. We're moving on to now 10.5. Yes. >> Prohibit permanent boarded up properties. >> This is the one we've been waiting on. >> The last one.

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>> Yeah. And this is really regarding uh the parcel on Jackson Avenue, the corner dormatory, whatever that place is. It's been boarded up for four years so far. >> There's a pile of rubble on the parking lot >> and the city's really not doing anything about it. >> We actually aren't doing anything about

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it. We're we're we they've painted the boards and that's now it's acceptable. And I to me that's not acceptable at all. And >> anybody sitting on this dis shouldn't be acceptable to them either. The city needs to do something about that building. It's been four years and

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that's that's one of the reasons I'm I'm sitting up here is because of what the city tried to do to the person that complained about it. You know, retaliate against the person complaining rather than fix the problem. And it's really easy to say, "Okay, they painted it. It looks great now. It doesn't look great. It makes our city look like crap

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>> that we have that." And apparently there's a building inspector. I'm not sure who says that's fine as long as they're painted. And I don't think that's fine. I I wanted to see how does the rest of the council feel about that. I think if there's a violation of the code, we need to enforce the code. And >> and if there's no code to be in

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violation of, we ought to make a code that says >> what we have. It appears that what I didn't mean to >> we don't have anything specifically saying you can't leave your property boarded up permanently. But I think that's that's the definition of blight right there. >> Boarded up, unused, decrepit. They

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pulled a demolition permit, I know, in 2021. >> So I saw something in the BSA with that. So, I don't think they have any intention of fixing it up. >> Why don't we direct city staff if uh to look into this and to see make sure

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there's no code violations and because >> and there's a lot of people in the city who feel the same way. I was going to have Peg get her crowd out here. I would have had hundreds of voters out here complaining about that. And I can do that. I can have those people show up to one of the meetings and let let the council know that that is not acceptable

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to the residents of Cape Canaveral. I don't think that's necessary. I think >> enforce the code and if there is a code boarded up, if there's a path, maybe we can change the code to give our building team more teeth. Uh

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>> I think we're open to that, >> right? >> Okay. So, what what what do we need to do then to to make that happen? I think direct city staff to uh uh ensure that that uh property is code compliant and if not

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the specific concerns of the boarded up windows is there a path we can do to pass a code that would make that enforceable >> although I'm sure Tallahassee has has passed some legislation that makes >> it take two months to get it passed and

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then we can enforce. >> That's all right. We'll do it. >> Let's do it. Yeah, >> let's do it. We've done nothing for four or more than four years. >> It really was the beginning of that. >> Yeah, that was the first council meeting I attended was August 2022 when that issue was raised about the parking requirements and they're, you know,

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trying to shut our business down because of that. >> I just ridiculous. And four years later, >> there are circumstances and hardships where people, you know, boarded up their windows and whatnot, but we're talking >> the permanent. This is permanent. >> We have to, I think, define that word

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permanent. City attorney, you hear us? >> Well, there should be a time length. >> That's right. >> Sorry. >> No, I mean, these are these are all valid comments. It's a legitimate issue. Um, the code city codes do not currently

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provide a duration limitation on the boarding of windows and doors >> currently. And I think the code enforcement officer stated that in that email that's in the package. the the the

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dilemma that we have right now is for the city to establish a duration time limit uh would likely um run a foul of Senate Bill 180 which prohibits cities and

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counties from proposing or adopting more restrictive or stringent um land development regulations because today there currently is not a time duration if the city were to impose a time duration.

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>> But is this really a development? It's it's enforcing uh I guess maybe an appearance standard or because I I got when I first bought my house here 2019, I got a code enforcement violation threatened with fines. I was missing one picket off of my fence. I didn't even know the thing

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was missing and I got written up for it. And that's and boarded up buildings no problem. >> The >> that's it just seems I don't know. Yeah, it we're talking about the possibility of going forward and adopting a new code. You know, I I I think it would

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likely fall under a land development regulation to impose the duration. I think in other states there's some case law authority that would support putting a time duration, but for the fact that we're we got Senate Bill 180

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>> that the Florida legislature has adopted prohibiting the city from proposing or adopting not just adopting but proposing any new land development regulations that's more restrictive or burdensome. was what wasn't

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>> if somebody has a boarded up property and the board's nuisances right the uh dilapidated you know may violate existing uh international in maintenance codes that the city's already adopted because

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they're not being maintained in a in a non-blooded way then there may be code enforcement opportunities there but I think the time duration may cause a potential problem at this time. >> I want to say too >> until October 1st, 2027.

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>> Don't we have something in our ordinances to prohibiting blighted buildings? That's >> yeahcredible. >> Burman health health issues >> property maintenance. My point is if it's not being maintained, >> I would say if I my house was boarded up, I'm not maintaining it. That's

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that's definition of not maintaining your property. Pile of rubble in your parking lot and boarded up windows. >> Well, you see a lot of boarded up windows during hurricane season. It's a time issue and and isn't there a a a limit to the time that you can keep those boards up after a hurricane? You

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they have to come down. >> Well, I think our city attorney is saying I think if you can we can direct you to look into it >> in between now and then. We hear you all in October. But if there's a path that

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we could take, exercising an interpretation of our own code or passing a new one, >> I would support that. >> Yeah. >> On a casebyase basis, >> find one rat over there and that that's a health issue >> there. That's what I've heard from

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from Peg and Ellie May. There's rats and all kinds of stuff going on in that building. And I mean, I haven't personally seen it. And we have the beautiful firehouse right across the street. we paid millions of dollars for. >> We got junk right across the street. >> Again, the city has plenty of codes regarding property maintenance,

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>> right? Addresses vermin and all that um >> dilapidation. Those those codes clearly exist, but and and the code also has a issue when you have uh

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windows or doors that aren't functioning. the it does permit in hurricanes the um damage the boarding of windows and doors there there's some existing language in the city codes

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but on the other flip side of that is once they're up there's no specific time limit >> that would be the clearest way to address the issue it's a valid municipal issue right for the same reason that Councilman Shorak is mentioning is you

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know it's It's it's it's you know in eyes of many people blight and it's kind of like the broken window syndrome right once you allow it to be maintained it it it feeds on itself and spreads right I mean legitimate issues

1241
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no doubt I mean we could have an ordinance prepared very quickly on that I just think the moment that you attempt to enforce it somebody could raise that Senate Bill 180 issue which is I think is going to be a legitimate issue at

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this time. >> Mhm. >> Um that we have we would have to deal with. But I can I mean I certainly can go back talk to Gerald city manager and do a little bit more digging to see if there's any other angles

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>> short of the adopting time durations. >> Um >> and if it's the risk of them suing, maybe we take that risk. >> There's >> we test it. There's there's >> Yeah. I mean, I just like to see that cleaned up. I just And I

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>> It just been a long time. >> Yeah. I >> mean, it's a great I mean, it's a it's it's a great issue. >> Yeah. >> And legitimate issue. >> Got some unfortunate problems with Senate Bill 180.

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>> Thank you, Council. I think you got the support of the council and the concern of the city attorney and we're we're not giving up on it, but we'll trust that you'll keep this >> in front of us. Okay.

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>> Well, it's well received. Thank you. >> All right. We technically have reports, but I technically don't feel like going any further. But I speak for myself. You do. We want to adjourn.

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>> I make a motion that we adjourn.