Pulk Avenue in Cape Canaveral, Florida. I call this meeting to order. And with that, Mayor Pro Tim Kellum, would you please lead us in the pledge of allegiance? >> I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. City clerk, please call the role. >> Sorry, I'm having blind moment. Um,
council member Jackson >> here. >> Mayor Prom Kellum >> here. >> Council member Willis, sorry >> here. >> Mayor Morrison >> here. >> And council member Davis >> here.
Thank you council for all being here and our community and public and city staff. We are on item number four of the agenda to approve the agenda as written or would we like to make any amendments? >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes, Council Member Willis.
>> I'd like to add a uh discussion item if we may. >> Okay. >> Um let's uh discuss Cape View Elementary and any position we might want to take as a council. Thank you,
council. Before we uh are there any other amendments that we would like to consider other than adding Cape View Elementary as a discussion item? >> Just one moment, please. >> Want to get to that or any changes to the order?
Did you have one, Council Member Jackson? >> Well, I had questions on a couple of the um consent agenda items. >> Okay, we'll get to that, I think, on the the next one or the in a few after presentations,
I think. But as far as the order, uh, adding items, striking items, >> I'll make a motion to approve the agenda with the add-on discussion item of Cape View. >> I'll second.
>> Got a motion by Mayor Proim Kellum to approve the agenda with the amendment to add on Cape View Elementary as a discussion item. Seconded by Council Member Willis. Is there any further discussion? I have one discussion uh to clarify. We
have tonight one item for discussion numbered is 10. is the uh the council's desire to consider this the 11th item following the if if we were going to have any members
of the public here. I would prefer that we discuss that ahead of that item if possible. >> Okay. I think we do. We've got quite a few folks here I think with for Cape View Elementary. Um, we do have some proclamations and presentations which
should go pretty quickly and then we'll hear public participation before moving into the manager matters. Um, Mr. Mayor. >> Yes, sir. >> I would imagine a lot of the public might want to go ahead and just speak in
public participation, but for us to discuss it, it we could do it either before item 10 or after. >> Got it. So, yeah, I was wondering if we even did it earlier in the agenda, but I think that's uh I think we're clear.
There's not anything. Well, let's clarify. Uh let's 10. Do we want to do it 10 and move the item for discussion on to 11 or 10.1 10.2? Well, and the other option since we have these two public hearings,
um, if you want, I can move it to a special meeting or to a workshop to discuss that item that I have. >> Okay. So, I think whether we do that or not, you're okay and this council is okay with moving it at the first discussion item. No issues. Okay. That's
all I had for clarity. Any other discussion? City clerk, please call the role. Council member Davis >> here. >> Council member Jackson >> four. >> Mayor Prom Kellum >> four.
>> Mayor Morrison >> four. >> And council member Willis >> four. >> And council member Davis you're four. >> Yes. >> Okay. That's what I >> said roll call. So I >> thank you and sorry. >> I'm four >> here and four. We're all with you on
that. Thank you. Okay. So uh the agenda is now set and we are moving on to the presentations and interviews. Uh the first one uh agenda item 5.1 is Florida
City Week proclamation. I have a proclamation up here. And I believe we have someone here uh to receive the Florida City Week proclamation. Mr. Touch Bear, I believe
uh you we'll present it to you. And with that, we'll go ahead and head down front and present that. Thank you. All right. This is an official proclamation of the city of Cape Canaveral, Florida. Whereas city
government is the government closest to most citizens and one with the most direct daily impact upon its residents. And whereas it is important for residents to understand how their city operates and govern services it provides
which enhance their quality of lives by making their city their home. And whereas city government is administered for and by its citizens, is dependent upon public commitment to and understanding of its many responsibilities. And whereas city
government officials and employees share the responsibility to pass along the understanding of public services and their benefits. And whereas the Florida League of Cities recognizes Florida City Week, helping member cities to join together to teach citizens about
municipal government through a variety of activities and offers an important opportunity for elected officials and city staff to spread the word to all citizens of Florida that they can shape and influence this branch of government.
And whereas the city of Cape Canaveral encourages all citizens, city government officials and employees, and other organizations to participate in events that recognize and celebrate Florida City Week. Now therefore, I, Wes Morrison, mayor of the city of Cape
Canaveral, by virtue of the authority of set office, hereby proclaim October 20th to the 26, 2025 as Florida City Government Week and encourage all residents to celebrate
our city by engaging and partaking in its events throughout the week and take pride in what makes our city so great. Thank you, >> Mr. Thank you for all you do. >> Absolutely.
[Applause] >> Okay, I have another proclamation here. Florida Water Professionals Month. Do we have Wow. Thank you all for being here, for all you do.
>> Thank you. Yes, if you'all want to come over here and uh we'll we'll take a photo. I'll read it. These are our city employees who uh are water professionals and ultimately serve the residents in the community. So, thank you. This is an official proclamation of the city of
Cape Canaveral, Florida. Whereas in 1966, the city of Cape Canaveral took over the operations of the former pollution control facility from Boulevard County, underwent its first expansion in 1985, which was reclassified as a wastewater
treatment facility, and in 1996 with the completion of the second major upgrade was designated as an advanced wastewater treatment plant. And whereas the public works services department has combined its infrastructure maintenance, collections and reclaim field systems
and water reclamation facility WRF operations which are permitted to operate at an annual average daily flow of 1.8 million gallons per day and utilizes a five-stage modified
Binfo biological nutrient removal system. And whereas the department's operations with the provision of utility, storm and wastewater, laboratory, reclaimed water, the city's infrastructure and facilities, and street maintenance services are all
managed to serve the general public. And whereas dedicated public works and utility employees work around the clock 365 days a year to ensure that clean drinking water is delivered to every household, waste water is collected and
treated, streets are cleaned, and official and excuse me, and crucial natural water resources, wetlands, and environments are protected and preserved for future generations. And whereas these professionals, utility workers
play an essential role in maintaining and operating critical infrastructure to restore service and prevent future damage. And whereas the month of August was dedicated to honor the city of Cape Canaveral's public works services staff
efforts in protecting public health and the environment with the Florida Water and Pollution Control Operators Association playing a crucial role in its observance by promoting the professional status of these operators and providing resources for training and
networking. Now therefore, I, West Morrison, mayor of the city of Cape Canaveral, Florida, by virtue of the authority of set office, hereby recognize and celebrate our Florida water professionals in the city of Cape Canaveral and encourage citizens to give
the city's utility workers the deserved recognition and respect by honoring this vital workforce with significant role they play to operate and maintain drinking water, wastewater, and storm water systems in the community and thank
the men and women who work tirelessly to protect Florida's precious water system signed and sealed this 21st day of October, 2025. Thank you.
[Applause] [Applause] All right, our Last item in the presentations of and interviews is an applicant interview the planning and zoning board. Mr. Michael Hartman, you
here? Hello, Mr. Hartman. If you want to come forward, our city attorney, I'll ask a couple of questions and council have the opportunity. Thank you. >> Good evening again, Mr. Hartman. >> Good evening. >> Um, all just a couple formality questions. All the information in your
application, correct? To the best of your knowledge? >> Yes, sir. Um, please explain to the council why you would like to serve on the planning and zoning board and specifically um address your prior experience with zoning and uh serving on governing governing boards. >> Oh, certainly. Um, I've been on four
boards in the county. I was the chairman of the county housing authority for 5 years from 2009 to 2014. I was chairman of the county budget committee in 2015. Uh, I join I am the vice chair of the
county housing finance authority since 2015. Um, in 2019, my wife and I moved into Port of Del Rio, uh, a condo there that we bought, but we've got roots that go back in Cape
Canaveral to 1989. My in-laws bought a house at 116 Jefferson Avenue in July of '89. We started visiting Cape Canaveral from up north in August of ' 89 and kept coming back and we loved it. I was a CPA
at the time. In 1993, I came down to do some work for a client and the client hired me to be their chief operating officer of their development, construction, and property management companies. So, since 1993, I have been doing property development and property
construction. Um, I probably dealt with most of the plan and zoning codes and just about every section of the state all the way from Pensacola down to Key West and numerous points in between. I've done about 100 developments in my
life. Uh, so I'm retired now and I want to just bring my expertise to try to help the city. Um, I'm not necessarily prodevelopment. I love Cape Canaveral since we came here in ' 89. I, you know, I don't mind the growth, but I love the
small town feel of it. I grew up in Baltimore in a 14t wide rowhouse. We had 90,000 people per square mile in Baltimore at that time. So, I love the fact that we're small. I love the fact that we're spread out and uh I just want
to try and serve the city as best I can and the people that live here. >> Thank you, Mr. Hartman Council, no particular order. This is an interview. Any questions? Or Council Member Davis? >> I was going to say thank you for being for the city. I think you'll be an
asset. >> Thank you, ma'am. >> Mr. Hartman, good luck. >> Thank you, Councilman. Um, I know we've had a relationship on in PDR neighbors
for a number of years now and appreciate everything you were doing while you were on our board of directors and uh, wish you could have brought down our dues a little bit, but that's okay. Thank you. >> We're working on the 2026 budget as we speak. We're just in the second
iteration. So, >> yeah. Well, that's that's enough of that. Council member Jackson. >> Um, thank you, Mr. Hartman, for applying and and for being willing to serve our city. I did have a couple questions for
you. >> Okay. >> Um, especially since you said you're not necessarily prodevelopment, but you've been in development all the way from Pensacola to the Keys. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Um, so we're 90% built out. Mhm.
>> What is your vision for the remaining portion of our island as far as development is concerned? >> Well, for one thing, um before I retired, I looked at redeveloping one of the
trailer parks that are currently in the city. Um and looked at it. Unfortunately, with the way construction costs went up in 19 2019 through 2022, I couldn't make the numbers make sense,
but um I think we need to try to get some housing that's more affordable for people. Um I mean, it's very hard. Uh you look at Porta Del Rio, a two uh you know a threebedroom goes for anywhere from 2500 a month to
3500 a month. And there's not a lot of people that can afford that. And we've got a lot of people in the hotels in the, you know, we're in the people business. We're in the tourism business. And we need to figure out how to provide
some good, clean, safe, but affordable housing for those people. So, >> okay. And I'm not through. I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor. Okay. So, having been on an adjust adjustment board, how important
is it for you as far as following current code? >> Uh, I think it's very important because it's been set by the city council. Um, when I was on the board of adjustments for the county, the variances they gave
we gave were usually because something had been grandfathered in um or something like that. So, that's where we gave the variances for the most part. >> Thank you so much, Mr. Hartman. I appreciate your responses.
>> You're welcome. >> Mayor Pro Tim Kellum. >> Yes. Hi, Mr. Hartman. >> Hello. Thank you for applying and being part of the very important planning and zoning board. Um, you have a lot of experience and there's a lot of people
in our community that have experiences such as yourself and we're glad that you have stepped up to join our planning and zoning and we welcome. >> Thank you very much. >> Just want to say thank you, Mr. Hartman. I'm thrilled that you're willing to step
in and get involved on a crucial board. Known you uh back since I first elected because you have been, as you said, very involved in in the in the community and the county. Have a lot of respect for, you know, your approach and the way that you think through issues and I look
forward to your contributions to that board. So, thank you. >> Thank you very much, >> sir. Council, any other questions for Mr. Hartman? We'll uh I think take up a resolution to formally appoint, but this time I think we're finished. Thank you.
>> Okay. So, now is public participation portion of the meeting. We are on item number six. If you do intend to speak, we do ask that you please fill out a card. Um I've got a few up here now. uh and whenever you uh can get to it uh and
please bring it forward to our deputy and we'll make sure that that you're heard. First card I have here in front of me is uh and I'm sorry if this is not the exact order but uh Veronica Clifford.
Yes, Miss Clifford. We got 3 minutes. So, uh, when the light I should have said for everyone when it goes yellow, it's about 30 more seconds left. And thank you. If you don't mind, tell um tell us your name and I see here you want to speak about rules here. So, thank you.
>> My name is Veronica Clifford. I um relatively new to the Cape Canaveral area. Um, I am, as you guys were saying, you know, how does the city operate? So, I've had some issues with code enforcement. So, I'm trying to figure out how the rules operate. And I'm
thinking city manager might be the person to help me. So I put some treason and code enforcement said uh reason city property needs to be removed. I need some help here.
I I I don't know the rules. And I went and I took pictures of everything. And I'm actually using a lot of the trees and things that you all are using to beautify it because that's what drew me to Cape Canaveral. as was mentioned, it's a small community. Your open areas are fantastic. Um, so I didn't really
understand because I have pictures and everything which I could set something up and show, but I need to know why they're telling me I need to remove these when palm tree roots are a ball system versus the oaks that you have that's spread out. And so
I figured I'm going to come and ask because a lot of the things I ask, they're telling me no. And my question is is who do I go to to say, "Hey, let's review this. Is this okay? Can we do this?" Your rules might say no, but are
the rules accurate? I want to follow the the code, but I'm just not the kind of person that's when you just say no because it's our property. I didn't know to ask. So, who do I go to ask and how do I go about how do I go about this for
various other things? >> Thank you. I'm happy to our city manager, if not himself, uh could point you in the right direction. >> Absolutely. Our community development director, Tamson Bell, is seated behind you. Uh waving her hand. There you go.
And if you want to set an appointment with her, uh she can discuss the matter with you. >> Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. Second here I've got one from Mr. Dale Cox. Now that it's to speak on the public hearing
item. Now when that when we take that item up, we will open it up, but if you need to be somewhere or you want to speak now, you're more than welcome to. >> Yes. Thank you. I'll make sure. Brad Purll.
Okay. Good. Good evening everyone. >> Good evening. >> What you do for our community? >> I got two cards here. I think um just making sure. Okay, I think we're good. >> Which one would you like me to start with? >> Well, I just wanted to make sure it
wasn't like the last card related to any item. I think you want to make some general comments. Nothing's okay. Yes, sir. The floor is yours. >> My name is Brad Pll. I live at the corner of Jackson and Magnolia. Um, the last time
I gave some public information, I wrote a book to every one of you, elected officials and appointed officials, and it was about spending our money. And what I want to say is thank you very much.
Listen, uh I understand that you have kept in the budget for this coming year the San Piper Park project for that to be redeveloped and updated. Thank you. I thank you and our kids.
Thank you. Secondly, I understand the batting cage has been approved also for the little league. Again, I thank you for that. Um, I still disagree about the concession stand and the negative 85%
ROI on that. I believe that money could have been spent somewhere else. Um, hot dogs don't recruit kids. It's coaches and equipment. And talking to some officials, apparently we are going to try and update the dugout. So, I want to
say thank you very much for that. uh believing in the children, believing in uh Space Coast Little League. FYI for fall ball, Space Coast Little League has five teams, most they've ever had for fall ball. Um
and they're growing. And lastly, go Blue Jays. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. In the second card, I think it looks like it's related to Cape View. We obviously added that as a discussion item, but if you'd like to speak on that
as well. >> Yes, please. >> Thank you. >> I didn't know it was going to be added as a discussion item. I had no idea that was even going to be brought up. Uh before I get involved in the elementary school, I want to put a shout out uh to
the park and wreck department. Trunk or treat was hilarious. It was a wellattended event. So, the park and recreck department needs to really get a round of applause. But Cape View, what is the city going to
do or planning on doing regarding the possible closure of our school? Can the city buy or do a lease purchase agreement with the board of education in Bvard County? Rumors have it that that
their final decision is in January. Rumors have it that uh a developer is going to buy the property and develop the property. Perhaps we can come up with a creative idea and create a charter school there
or an afterchool program, something for the children. That land is highly valuable and it's an asset to the city. Here's my snarkiness. If we can spend a million dollars to
tear down a building to have a dog parking lot, how come we can't buy that property if they are going to close the school? it that property can be an asset and will be an asset if the city can annex
it, buy it, lend lease it. You go to a charter school system, now you have revenue because they'll be renting it from us. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> That is the last card I have. If um want
to make sure Is there anyone else that would like to speak? If so, please come forward. Miss >> Miss Bass, >> you can bring them forward there when you and we'll make sure to get them. Thank you. >> Yes, I'm sorry. We misunderstood. Do I
need to bring this card to you? >> No, you're good. If you want, come on forward if you're ready now to speak, please. Thank you. >> All right. You ready for me? Yes. >> Okay. I'm Melissa Bass. I've met some of you, but some of you I haven't yet. I'm
a parent at Kate View Elementary. I wanted to speak to you guys about the school. And here it comes. Um, we love our school and there are three things I want to get across today that we see the idea of consolidating our school and um,
losing the public school as a bad idea for our city in terms of turning away families and uh, not getting more families in. and the families we have could leave and the school is such a valuable place as the heart of our city. We really uh really want to keep it. And the idea of
busting all of our kids to Roosevelt is a problem for many reasons. One of them being this bikable, walkable uh program that's been going on in the city for the last decade or more. And the idea that our kids can't bike and walk to school would seem to contradict
that. So, I don't like that. Um, and we I just don't want to see us turning into a a place that's basically parking lots and rentals and there's no soul to our city. And having kids and having a school makes people come back and makes
people stay and makes it worth being here. And um, we have a lot of low-income and at risk kids that go to the school that walk to the school because their families don't have cars. And so the idea of a kindergartener getting on a bus in the
dark to get to school on a possibly an hour bus ride both ways, it's just not not okay. So we want to uh look at that issue. And so, um, there's just a lot we could talk about here, but the main thing I want to do is talk to you guys
and see if we can set up something where you guys can work with the public, with the parents, and we can try to get something going so that we can uh when the school board meeting comes, there's one coming up next week, but it's not the official one for this issue. But when that comes, we would like to have
the elected officials with us so that we can speak the language of the board and have real solutions and not just be upset parents crying, but we want to really try to fight for the kids in a smart way. So like to ask for your help.
>> Thank you. >> Mr. Rajes Ravven Sakar. >> Good evening. I am Rajes Ravi Sankar. I'm the uh PTO president of Cape Elementary. My um my child goes to Cape View. And well, before I start, thanks
to the um sheriff's office. They um helped us with the trunk or treat. So, I want to recognize them before I start. Um the first thing is Cape View Elementary is the only school in the city of Cape Canaveral. Now I want to um
bring this to the attention of everyone. What is going to be the economic impact if the school were to be consolidated and moved out of Cape Canaveral? What is the economic impact to the city? And um
like Melissa touched upon, our school has 90% of the kids that are walkers, meaning the parents uh walk the kids to school. They do not have um a vehicle. So if the school were to be consolidated
to Cocoa Beach and if there was an emergency, there's no way for the for the parents to go and get their kids. So that is a um huge um problem. I'm not I'm I'm not sure if that was thought out. But um the third thing that I want
to you know um bring to the forum is um we would like to have um some representation from um the elected officials at the school board meeting which is happening on the
28th at 5:00 p.m. at um BPS um building in Vieira. so that um they would um definitely um recognize someone from the city and when their um
opinion is voiced about the school's uh potential closure. And um I also want to um request um the mayor and the uh members of the council to work with u PTO because we have a
team that is strategizing the action plan to um to prevent the consolidation because we want someone from um the city to work with us to brainstorm to collaborate and see what we can do to um
you know stop this I would say this huge disruption that is going to affect um the community, kids, parents, everyone. So yeah, I I am the PTO president and we
have um a uh website that we started. It's called keepcapeopen.com. So if anyone wants to um go check us out, we have a petition going on and we have um social media presence. We have reached out to um mainstream media
outlets to create awareness to uh the community so that people do not wake up at the last minute and we're like well we we've just missed the opportunity to rally gather and uh protest to uh
potentially stop this from happening. So again, um we're we're requesting someone from um the city to uh work with us to see how we can put our best foot forward. So that's that's pretty much it. We we
do not want the school um to be closed because one So thank you. >> Yes. Thank you. And we'll have that discussion item I think this at the end of this meeting to to get into I think everything we heard. Mayor Pro Tim Kellum,
>> I just have a question. Do you have a a date for your strategizing brainstorming I uh meeting with the PTO? It is it is ongoing like but we're gonna we had a meeting yesterday but then we're going to have um what we heard from the
principal was the board is going to have a town hall that's that was planned for the last week of October but now it has been moved to the first week of November so like we will have to um do our strategizing before that so that we can
when we um have the town hall we have uh talking points >> so there. The information on that would be in the website that you're talking about. >> Uh yes, like we also have our Instagram page like it's the same handle, keep KP open. So, we're going to we're going to be posting regular updates on there.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Last card I have is John Benton. Okay, I'm here asking you guys for my code reduction hearing again. If you would have given me one 10 years
ago when I came and asked you because Randall said he knew I didn't live in that warehouse that I lived on Tyler. I don't even know the man, but he knew me. Said I mowed his yard two times back in ' 91. He wasn't even the mayor. Didn't know who he was. And this board should
have given me a code reduction hearing then. You should have pressed charges against Kevin man that owns the spaceman storage up there. He lied under oath. Said that nobody was living in his warehouses up there. I said I gave the board pictures of them up there. Some of them had their
pants down at the dumpster brushing their teeth at my warehouse door. And you find me guilty of living in there with a cop in the unit next to me. I knew sitting in that meeting when they were mocking me and laughing at me that if I didn't blink an eye, they were
going to find me guilty and I was going to get every one of them in that meeting and fired. Where are they? They aren't here, are they? You could have put him in jail, Kevin man, for lying lying to the cops. Oh, I don't have anybody. And then when Mr.
Dicki, the only one that helped me out, says that he had in the email that he asked Kevin man, "Hey, does your son live in the warehouses?" He says, "No, he's security guard. Why didn't he have him come in and testify?" Because he's a
pedophile. He's on the sex offenders list. And you want to look at what's going on with Epstein or whatever his name is. He gets 13 months in jail in Florida and convicted. What is this man? This old boys club
here where you don't do anything to the pedophiles. You got a lawyer over there. It's his fault cuz his lawyer wouldn't let me defend myself that night after Kevin testified against me. If I would have had a skull Jew hat on, that would have never happened. Or a
Catholic collar, but he picked on me because he probably knew that I came forward on the Jew school in Winter Park when I was 37 years old and the preacher, he got five to eight years in jail. I only did it to help the people out. It was hard to come
there and tell a female detective what happened to me. And I know for a fact that six people came in the day before me that she asked if they would testify and they wouldn't do it for political reasons.
What's wrong with you guys? You fired everybody. You fire you made you made David Dicki there sign a clause so he wouldn't defame you because he knew that all the things that was happening all the favors to the people
that was that wasn't getting fines and ones that was it was the board they were [Music] Is there anyone else who intends to speak I think thank you for getting those we had three more there
seeing Seeing none, we'll go ahead and close public participation. And I still have Mr. Cox, your card here. When we get to the public hearing item, don't let me forget. You can wave. I've done that before, but we'll make sure you're heard. So, excellent. Thank
you. That brings us to uh item number seven, which is are the managers matters. And just for the public, um, with our new city manager coming on board, this is something that, uh, he
proposed and has implemented and I found it to be find it to be very valuable. Things that maybe aren't necessarily on the agenda that he wants to bring forward to this council. And the goal is that he he goes through all of them. And council, if we have any questions, we
let him get through them and we can certainly ask in the end. And with that, the city manager. >> Thank you, mayor, and thank you, council. So, item 71 is the vacation rental report, which you have in the backup documentation. I'll entertain any
questions or we can just move on to 72. 72 is community center membership. And this is an item that I'm bringing to the council's attention for future discussion uh in meeting with you all prior uh individually prior to this meeting. uh giving you the background on
the the procedure we have in place at the C5 center where um numerous residents both city and non- city residents through membership or um participation in insurance programs um
pay their fee to use our facility and then the city gets its cut of the fee and the fee cut that we're getting is not in line with our city ordinance. Uh so it's a program that is has some merit. Um and um the leisure services
committee would like to conduct a joint workshop with the council to discuss all those things that they have discovered and I think they have some proposals on maybe how the city can move forward. So given that this is an ordinance issue when it comes to our fee structure, it's
important that council get involved uh so that we can chart that course forward. Uh so mayor if you wanted to discuss uh having a workshop yes or no and if so propose uh some a date and I know we have uh um John Mayberry here
from recreation who can take any information back to the committee. >> Okay. Yes. I would think that if the um some dates were sent out to the council we can we can accept that on via email and and try to find something that works for all of us council. Does that sound
okay for a joint workshop? We did that with P&Z on a different land use matter, I think, and it was very valuable. I >> I think they're going to prefer that you meet on their next scheduled uh meeting if that's possible, but I'll get with John after uh council and with Molly uh and the director, and we'll discuss how
we're going to approach that. >> Great. Thank you. >> Thank you, mayor. Thank you, council. Uh the next item uh is a community I'm sorry, a city facilities update. And John, if you don't mind, come forward. Um, you've had your finger on the pulse of that. I can give an update, but you
can do it far better than me. You've been out there actually probably slinging a hammer or two. So, is this on? Okay. Good afternoon, good evening. Okay. So, right now we started I don't know if any of you have been over by the
uh Cape Canaveral Park, but we began uh the installation of the upgrade components on the splash pad yesterday. Today, we completed the plumbing portion. Uh Thursday, we have the crew that's coming in to hook up the electrical, the new ultraviolet systems
that we're uh installing. And then we have uh the department of health has to come through and do their inspection to make sure everything is good to go uh as far as chemicals, the feeders and everything and everything is brand new and it is all uh industrial commercial
grade equipment this time. So we're anxious, we're hopeful to uh be up very soon, have it running again. The other thing we're is uh getting close to finishing up our portion of the concession stand. The only uh component
that's left to install is the mini split air conditioning system we purchased. Uh one head is going to be downstairs in the concession stand and the other is going to be upstairs in the announcers booth. Um, we discussed before we purchased a brand new scoreboard year
before last and I think it was used in one game to try it out and um, it's just so uncomfortable up there in the heat in the summertime that nobody wants to go up there and sit for an entire ball game. So, uh, we're taking addressing
that um, and making some minor changes upstairs to the floor. We've done some work uh where there had been some leakage over the years and cut that old rotten wood out and replaced it and going to paint the floor uh and get the uh the head for the AC up there and then
that will be ready to go. Uh currently we're on schedule for the third week of November to have that done. That's the quickest I could get a contractor in to do the installation for us. Um I'd like to point out um and thank uh Hogue
Electric. They did the uh electrical for us that had to be redone completely and they did it uh as a gratus for the Space Coast Little League. Yes. >> Uh and did a very good job and so just want to thank them publicly for what
they did for us. And the other thing we have is the roof repair or replacement actually over at Nancy Hansen. That was begun yesterday also. And those guys are moving. I mean, they're doing good work. They've ripped
out the old fashcia. Uh, and you can really see it was in worse shape than we ever thought it was now that you can see. Uh, but they've got approx maybe between an eighth and a quarter of the activity room on the front of the building. that part is already ripped off and they've got the new subroof and
everything on up there. So, it's they're doing a really good job. So, and then the tennis courts, pickle ball courts, uh that's moving along. They're out painting this afternoon. I went over and visited Marcy and uh just everything
that's going on. You know, every we wait and wait and wait and chase vendors and contractors and then everything hits at the same week. So, we got a lot going on. got a lot of balls we're juggling right now. But you have any questions? >> I do not. Just a comment of thank you so
much. shall know that obviously the splash pad and you know my position on it was I knew that our city staff was doing everything that they could and when permits are in higher regulatory authorities that's not us the state waiting and I look forward to seeing it
all finished doing it right and and I know some of these are uh take much longer than I think anyone wanted but uh very encouraging. Thank you. >> Well, we want permits. We want to, you know, like you said, do everything by
the book and uh plans, things that we didn't have when we came when Molly and I came along. So, whoever comes after us, they want to have a firm foundation for those people to be able to go back and see where we started and, you know, whatever direction they may choose to go in. But,
>> Council Member Jackson, >> I had just a couple of questions for you, John, if you don't mind. Yes, ma'am. >> Um, one thing is I love lights. Um, that's a strange thing for me, but I do. So, what kind of lights are going to be on the splash pad? >> On the splash pad?
>> Yeah. You were saying new lights would be installed. Is that what you said? >> I'm sorry. >> No, it's a UV light. It that cleans the the water. >> Oh, man. I got all excited. >> We're always looking though for things
to to upgrade and make things nicer though. >> Okay, >> that All right, that's Thank you. And then that was my that was one of my questions. Then um let's see now I got so flustered. What is my I'll if I if I
figure out the second one I'll get back with you. But I was hoping I was excited thinking it was going to have some cool lights. It has a UV light which >> might be >> it needs it but okay. Thank you John. >> Yes ma'am. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> City manager.
>> Thank you John. Item 7.4 city personnel update. So, we began our interviews for the city engineer position. Uh we have another applicant uh in the queue to interview and we're waiting to hear back from another and um we'll keep the application process open until we find
just the right person for that position. Uh we do have an opening for a permit clerk at our front desk and we're looking to fill that position internally. So, we hope to have some some news for the council on that uh soon.
75 is a Patriots Park Community Garden. And this is another item that just opening it up for discussion. The these two amenities are side by side as you know uh north of our city and they're adjacent to a car wash. Um there is
currently no parking for either one of the amenities. Um the um community garden has seen less activity over the past several months than in in the recent past. uh the park the the the community garden is not closed. I heard
from some of you that that there was a belief that it had been closed. Um there may have been a miscommunication on that. However, if the the statement about looking to move it um might have lead folks to believe that why bother trying to plan something if we're going
to move that um community garden. So, we just want to open up some dialogue about these two amenities. They are side by side. Um there is no parking, public parking. Uh there is private parking and there is gate access to that private
parking. Um but as I've expressed to all of you in individual meetings prior to here, um you know, the frequency and volume of that use and and not having any parking, we would like to see about fixing that and maybe moving the community garden to another location uh
that was is suitable for that and converting that space into some parking. um but not pave parking. It would be parking where you know the the water can go somewhere and you know permeate into the ground. Um and there was also a previous plan in place I believe for Longpoint Road where there was some
other parking proposed for that area. So um just to kick it around with council, see how you feel and we'll move staff in in whichever direction that you decide. >> Thank you. So the um final update is for 7.6 city
hall air conditioners. You all have some backup documentation and we had the conversation about the AC unit last budget um during our budget hearings. Uh this is an item that was not funded in the current budget uh with a plan to
fund it uh should we have to through contingency and our RNR account. Um so there could be some other money available uh this budget cycle uh depending on um how we spend on certain things. Uh but at the end of the day you
have the report that was sent to us by our service technician. Uh the information that you received I can walk you through it very quickly is um >> and just to make sure we're thinking the same thing Mr. City Manager the ex not in the packet the printouts that are
stapled. >> Thank you. It was a it was a handout uh provided to council prior to the meeting and uh there might be um a document we can put online or no I'm not sure. There you go. So there's a document online for the the community to see. So, Southeast
Services of C of CFL Incorporated, uh, they they serviced our units and, um, they provided a breakdown for those items, um, that are in need of, um, replacement. And rather than go through them line by
line, uh, we've tallied them up. And um it would appear that if we were to replace all of those things that need replacing, uh the city would be looking at $128,000 estimated to just replace the parts that
the two units on the roof need. Um that is uh the estimate. You also have an estimate that shows our repair history between two different vendors. and uh the the total uh repair history
of 101,000 on the first uh through Southeast Services. >> That's this table here. >> Yes, that every >> That's impressive. Thank you. Since we've had it >> and then if you look at the Johnson Controls at 6939,
uh that's another vendor. If you tally those two, our rip repair history is 115,000 583. I'm sorry, 8,779 for our total repair history. Um, we've obviously have a service
history at over 11,000. Uh, so between our repair history and our service history, those AC units have cost over the years uh since their installation. actual activation I believe was 2017 or 2018 2018
2016 they were installed. Yes. We didn't uh occupy the building in right away. And so we didn't have any repairs those first few years as you can imagine. Uh and that's when we blew through the warranties. So there are currently no warranties on these units. Uh but the
total uh repair and service history totals 120, 363. Um, that's that's repair and service history. And then if you if you go back to your last page, and I know I have you
flipping actually it's the memo that we had on the screen for the the community. Um, the estimate uh to uh replace the entire unit, both units uh 300 to
350,000 at this point. So, I've also given council a one-page uh document that outlines the the city employees plan should the events should these units fail. And you could just see
at your leisure what we're prepared to do to work in the building should we have to repair I mean replace one or both units at the same time. We have a combination of working in the building with fans um working from home remotely depending on the position. Um, but you
can go through those items at your leisure. So, we uh we certainly have a plan in place to to re replace these units unless we're directed to repair only. Um, either way, I think this is one of
those things that's going to continue to plague us every year until we just replace them. >> Wow. Thank you. The >> Is that the last one? Yeah, on the manager's matters. I think it is.
>> It is. Yeah. >> So, just to make sure I'm referring to the table with that uh totals up the the historical record, basically maintenance records with cost is very helpful. And it looks like yeah, the Southeastern
Services was a vendor providing support there. That totals, to recap, 101,840 with the first one in January of 2020, example, a condenser fan blade for $700.
Um, all the way to, you know, I see compressor leaks at 18,000 and as you said, $ 101,000 and then Johnson Controls, I think a separate vendor. Is that right? goes back to
>> we engaged a separate vendor to do some services for us and those were the costs that uh that they charged. >> So November of 2019 I think is the first one there and it totals just under 7,000. >> Yeah.
>> And that is are those to the total? What was you said? 120,000 or is it 108? >> So, let me get back to my >> if I add the >> Yeah. So, what I did was I I gave you
several numbers. >> One number was the total to repair um the units as over time as charged to us by Southeast Services which was 1018.40 40 and then during the uh a
separate period where we contracted services with Johnson Controls their total was 6939 and so adding those two numbers we came up with 108779 that that's the to the total repair
history you know parts whatever um but there's also the service history that coincides with that number and that was on another document where over the course of the years of these units um the repairs and service calls
>> preventative maintenance. >> Exactly. >> I see that's 11,583. >> Yes. >> Okay. Now I see. So 108 plus that we're looking at roughly 120. >> And in one hand you can say that's just the cost of doing business because you
have to maintain your equipment. But when you're repairing parts, replacing parts that go out and they continue to go out and the units get old and you know this the situation here with the salt air. Um I did not mention also that
their memo contains a comment about the um um it's a device that that they don't make anymore and they've had to just kind of lock them in the open position so they continue to function. And um if we had to repair those, they would have
to be custom made uh because York uh AC does not make those anymore. The um the they're called the the economizers and the units are seized and are just manually opening to a minimum. It's about 34 of the way down in that first
paragraph, last sentence. They would have to be custom made. You can't get them from York anymore. That's city manager. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> So, if council decides that they do want to do this, we will have to do a budget
amendment. And basically, the way that'll work is we've already identified where we would get the money from uh three different sources within the budget. And so that budget amendment would show the council is approving, you
know, maybe a CIP for the um AC. And then it would show in the amendment how we reduced the different areas where we're taking the money from RNR, contingency, and potentially uh the reduction in the cost of the fire truck.
Those things would be contained in that u in that amendment. So everything would be extremely transparent in terms of you know we had the money within the budget in different places and then we will just have to move that money to pay for
the air conditioner and you got to do a budget amendment though because it's not in the budget. >> I had a question. >> Yes, council member Jackson. >> Um so uh Mr. City Manager I see that this was a York. >> Yes. >> Okay. And I know personally because I
was one of those that bought a York with a 10-year warranty. Oh, our warranty covers corrosion and all these things. However, upon the unit being installed for a while, it was corroding half much
quicker than other manufacturers brands. And we had discussed in the past the fact that there are some vendors here that have treated um AC systems for um coastal
environments. Have we looked at any other brands other than the Shark? >> Yes, we have. And if I can invite Lisa Day to come to the microphone, she obviously is our building manager. before Lisa uh jumps in here. Uh yeah,
York is not even will not even be a consideration because it does it is not the type of AC that should even be this close to the the ocean. And Lisa is going to give you the other uh elements to get the right AC. And of course, this
will take time because it's not like you could just go buy that at Home Depot. So there's going to be a long lead time on this, but go ahead, Lee. >> Okay. Um, the vendor that we currently use has told us right from the beginning
that York was probably not the right product to put on our roof because of the um, salt air and that um, a carrier or a train uh, unit would probably be better. They're better suited for the
salt air. Uh to answer your question, um I did ask Southeast probably about two years ago when we first brought this to council about the coating that goes onto the air conditioning systems and they said that they can do it either from the
factory or an aftermarket uh type spray on uh formula. Um obviously that's going to cost more. So that could be something that we ask them about, but we're going to have to, you know, add in that additional factor.
>> Okay. And and see, I hear that you spray on, for example, that that answer that they've given us. >> The other one, the other vendor that I know of, they dip theirs. So they're dipping components and it's a different
process. spray on worries me because if that was that easy, we'd all be spraying our cars and everything else, right? Because I'm going to tell you everything else out here. >> So, I'm not excuse me, I'm not 100% sure, but I think if it's from the factory, it's dipped. If it's
aftermarket, it's a spray-on. So, I wanted to clarify that >> and see I and my point is we're looking at one vendor. Was this a vendor that put all of this on our roof before?
>> Well, the I went to the vendor that is servicing the products now. If this were to be put out, we would have to go out to bid for it and get different quotes and bids from from that involves Tim. So, I went to the
vendor that we currently use because I have a good working relationship with them for service for our current air conditioner system. >> Um, I wanted to also clarify on the other sheets where we had Southeast and Johnson Controls. John Johnson Controls
does the programming of the system when we had issues at the beginning. um Johnson Controls did worked with with Southeast because we weren't sure if the problems were mechanical or or if they were control
related. So that's why Johnson came in at the beginning. They were charging us for their services, but we found out that Southeast could do the same services for us at a lower cost. >> Okay. So, Southeast is not the one that
installed the units when the building was built. >> No, I believe I'm um the contractor for the building. I'm not sure who he had used. That was before my time. I don't know if you >> obviously, you know, obviously went out
for bid and uh they gave the that contractor for this building. They gave them the contract and of course they're the ones that chose that AC for this building, >> right? And and I get I get it that it would have been through the contractor
process. So I'm not saying anything about staff or anything like this and I appreciate all y'all's efforts, >> but even myself learned a hard lesson about York, you know, so I want to make sure whatever we have has the best coastal rating that we can get.
Absolutely. And that's why I was asking. >> Yeah. Abs. Absolutely. How they New York, I don't know, but maybe it was lowest cost. >> Yeah. And hearing um hearing you Lisa tell us that it'll we you know there will be a bid process for it. And that makes it
>> yeah it will go. I mean >> the only thing is if it fails tomorrow I you know we would have to probably look at the bid process versus you know a sole source type thing because the bid process is going to take a while. I
think, you know, with Tim and Laura going out, it probably would take, you know, 60 to 90 days for putting a bid out and then, um, we would have to work beyond that as far as what's in stock, what units we get, and that, um, if it
were to fail tomorrow, we'd have to make that decision whether you wait the three months to put it out to bid or if you go sole source. >> And I think after that, Southeast, I think, gave lease an idea. Would they say, Lisa, it could take four to five
months to actually potentially get AC's like that for this building? >> So, it depends on the unit. >> Yeah. >> Uh, one of the other factors involved is something called the curbing. I don't know if you've all been up on the roof or whatever, but the curbing wraps up
around the air conditioning system. >> That curbing is built um for the current York system. Um, it's not that we have to rebuild the curbing, but what happens is you put an a um a piece in there, an
adapter to fit the new floor plan of whatever shape air conditioner you have. So, that may be a little bit extra, but we we're not tied to that type of equipment to fit that floor plan. >> Okay. Thank you. Those were my
questions. I'm done. City manager and mayor. Any other questions? Council member Willis. >> Um, >> is there any sort of a facilities contract with other municipalities or Bvard County that we could tag on to
>> a piggyback? >> We we could certainly ask that question. I could get with Tim tomorrow. We could we could delve into that. A lot of times with a lot of things, yes, there there there is something, but uh we haven't had to delve into air conditioners. So
that's a question that's uh >> I mean it it could be worth it to >> Oh, we'll ask the question. >> Well, we believe, you know, time is of the essence. Council approval is to replace the units. we would look to say that this is something where we need to
go sole source and get the process started now because of the time it could take to ultimately happen versus like Lisa was saying going through a bid process and adding that time on to the order and waiting for the unit.
Well, the >> but at the same time, Don, we are >> right. >> We'll be able we'll be able to look at answer your question there. I think >> Okay. Well, >> relatively quickly. >> Just just reading over the uh what happens if >> you know it's it would be not that I'm
asking for the calisthenics on putting a number together, but that's got to impact staff and costs and everything else with Well, my biggest concern in this building, if the air conditioner
malfunctioned and it was months and we were using blowers or whatever, it's going to have an effect on things like the doors and things like that. That could cost us thousands of dollars. So, that that's a concern. >> Humidity is humidity is going to be impacted. Not to mention, I'm sure the
uh the server room is probably >> over there. There's a special air conditioner in there, so that's unaffected. >> Yeah. So >> that would be one of my concerns is all the other things that we're not putting out to bid that it's going to cost us.
So, >> and one other thing just so you know, I mean this wasn't something this was something we discussed in the CIP workshops and that a possibility maybe we can hold off. >> Um, this kind of came
to us really last week. They came in to do a preventative maintenance on the equipment um and showed me what was failing on it and I brought the city manager up to the roof and they actually showed us what
was failing. um our unit one um we've had a condenser that's been down for about a year and we've been running it on 75% knowing that do we put the money into repairing that knowing that we wanted to replace it because it's an expensive
piece to the puzzle. Um now we've had our second condenser on that one which is failing. So if that fails we're now running 50% on the first floor for air conditioning. So that's it became critical as of last week. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Any other statements? I just want to say when it's not I guess optimally running the electricity cost is something as well that I would assume is >> with a new system or working well is going to improve and over the life of
the system that matters. And the last thing is like uh you know with the the solar array and the other things that we're looking at might already be all over this but there are some um maybe it's just related to heat pumps but some pretty aggressive tax credits
that obviously the city isn't a taxable entity but the direct payment might help but it might be one of those things where you got to kind of buy up so high that it but with the credit it it might work Well, and thank you so much. I've
learned that air conditioners are expensive and it looked like 2024 is the date of those was not fun. A lot of repairs and it makes sense. Uh yeah, 6,000 about 1,600 a month rough math uh
over the six years just preventative and well preventative is the small part of it. And so thank you. I hope uh I don't think we'll get it installed before the concession stand mini split, but it'll
hopefully be soon. So, any other comments, city manager? >> No, just looking for for some direction from council >> uh on how to move forward uh between the proposed uh there's basically two
options. I see we got the 300 to 350,000 for replacing the two RTUs and that would resolve >> I mean that's a new complete replacement >> and then the total for the going in and
making parts repairs is on page uh >> right >> that was on the last page of your hand >> the last one oh well >> to repair everything that they've proposed is $128,000 That was the Okay, thank you. The 128.
So, to me, I think it's really about where the the warranties can come into play on this one now that we're actually controlling our destiny as opposed to the mercy of a contractor and who they subbed and the products they chose. And so I think that, you know, with a good
warranty that we can lean on and rely uh so that we can, you know, it's 10 years on paper, but is it really 10 or I mean we're in year six and so it's unfortunate that uh but I think that's that's just what they're doing.
>> It would actually be 10 because the this building the architecture was done in 2015. Okay. >> It was built in 2016. um 2017, you know, was when the 2016 2017 was when the air conditioning was installed
and we moved in in January of 2018. So the air conditioning has to be in the building to condition the air when they're doing all of the woodwork and that. So it was actually 2016 when it was >> exposed for a year and a half before we even >> it will be 10 years.
>> Okay, got it council. Uh, but those are the the repair or a full replacement. Is that right? 128 to repair. It's kind of hard to see how much runway that would give us. Uh, you know, I don't think it would come with any warranties or anyone would
give us warranties. >> I mean, maybe on those particular parts would have a warranty, but certainly not for the unit. I don't know if you've gotten that information. >> I haven't, but the other thing to consider is what the city manager was saying about the um the louvers. Those
are seized open and they manually adjusted them um to give us a medium air return air flow. Um they're supposed to work with the system to open and close.
So those um York does not offer replacement parts for >> if we were to do everything in in that 128,000 would be an additional for those parts and those would have to be custom made
>> and they told me that that would not be cheap. So to redo everything would be upwards of 128,000 >> minimum I think. And plus with >> plus those louvers that are key for adjusting the air. >> Okay.
>> Air flow. >> Got it. Mayor Pro Tim Kellum. I just think that um you know instead of throwing good money after bad, if we can maybe piggy back with the county or find the money
that we need to replace, I think that would be the way to go. Um >> for a new system >> for a new system. Just let's find the money and get it done. >> So I don't know what we need a motion or
well repair or new. I think your lean word new. Do we want to do new system? >> Yeah. >> To get >> I I think I think it behooves us to take that $128,000 and put it towards a new system. >> Yeah.
>> Because we can replace 128,000 parts and then we could have another 128,000 something else. >> So we have system into funds
were at that point that I was afraid of. >> Council member Jackson. >> Well, if if it's as old as it is and it's a York, it's going to be rusting a bit soon if it hasn't already. I can I can personally attest to that. Um, I think it's ironic that just last month
we were discussing this and it's already something we have to act on. I think that's ironic that's how things work. Um, but I say go with a a best coastal units that we can find
because however those Yorks got installed, just like my said, mine, hey, I fell for the 10-year warranty. Yeah. They keep attaching parts to rust if if they can. So,
um we can't have people not being cool during summer. Right now, we're pretty good what temperature- wise, but otherwise, you know, we have to look at what we have to do. So, I'd say but I'd say new versus putting parts in.
>> Just my quick math to what we're saying. Uh and this is very rough. If I'm just eyeballing it, 2024 of the those 101,000 repairs that were detailed, half of it was in that year. So, it's getting more expensive each year.
>> Good point. So, I think we're all uh city manager, it sounds like consensus for a new system and we heard, you know, if we can piggy back great ideas, if we can get, you know, great warranties and I think we're going to go with this one kind of the benefit of going through
that is obviously we're going to navigate our way to not do that again. When we look at this too, something that really concerned about and that we'll we'll do our homework on this is that >> let's say we got a train and we want to
know that the unit we're getting five to seven years from now, somebody doesn't if something goes out or something, the company doesn't come back to us and say, "Oh, you know, we don't make that part for that unit anymore. We don't we want to know that for the next 10 years that anything that happens with that we could
replace the parts and we don't get that from York >> and frankly where are the parts coming from is important as well >> because where they're manufactured can impact the amount of time it takes to get them here if they don't have them in >> in inventory.
So, do we need a motion there or >> I think this is looking for direction out of those two. >> I heard five votes. >> Yeah, got some consensus. >> I don't think we need >> to do it. I think consensus if anyone opposes not going new, I'm hearing
nothing. >> And yeah, there's got to be good scrap value on those old systems, too. Maybe the new vendor will credit something. >> Or you just put it near the road. You put it near the road and somebody will pick it up. I don't. No, I think uh yeah,
>> you'll need a crane to pick those up. >> Thank you, council. That concludes manager matters. >> That's great. Thank you. Really important items. >> Thank you, Lee. >> Okay, so now uh we're at 7:20 here. Uh
we've got our consent agenda items. Looks like we have 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, and 8.4. Uh, Council Member Jackson, uh, you had mentioned potentially pulling one to discuss. If there, uh, are any others
that we'd like to pull, we can do that now and then vote for the remaining consent agenda. So, Council Member Jackson, which item >> 8.3, the rooftop solar array on the Bvard County Sheriff's Office building.
>> I had a couple of questions on it. >> Okay. 8.3. Council, any other items that we want to pull? We've got a set of minutes 8.1, a resolution uh for the PNZ formally appointing Mr.
Hartman to our PNZ board and the Canaveral Fire Pumper Replacement. So, >> I'll make a motion that we approve the consent agenda A1, A2, and A4. 84, I'm sorry.
>> I'll second. >> Okay. Got a motion by Mayor Pam Kellum and a second by Council Member Willis to approve consent agenda items 8.1, 8.2, and 8.4. Any further discussion? Hearing none. City clerk,
>> council member Davis, >> four. >> Council member Jackson, >> four. >> Mayor Prom Canam, >> four. >> Mayor Morrison, >> four. >> And council member Willis, >> four. Agenda items pass 50. Council member
Jackson, item number 8.3. >> Thank you, Zach, for staying here. >> Of course. >> Okay. >> Hit me with it. in the project details. I had a question um because it's it says I had two questions.
>> Sure. >> One is the rooftop solar array array will be designed to be battery ready meaning that in the future it can be upgraded with internal battery banks to hold electricity produced by the panels and work in tandem with the existing
generator prolonging the off-grid operations. um thereby therefore providing an enhanced level of energy redundancy and security. So what we're going in with for BCSO will still be running off a
generator. Is that correct? >> That's correct. But it would be in tandem. So also something to keep in mind that I didn't put in here is that the generator that runs BCSO right now also co-runs the Cape Center if it goes out. So it's doing a double duty. >> Okay. So the batteries would help to
prolong the uh fuel fuel life essentially because it could take load off uh say like midday um or at night when the panels are not functioning because there's no sun. They would be discharging into the building's
electrical grid. >> Mhm. >> And the generator could take a break essentially. Okay. >> And then as it would >> uh as they would drain, the generator would kick back in, do its job, and they would continue to cycle forward. But the way this is written makes it sound like
we don't have the batteries that that's an additional >> option. That's correct. So it's a phase project. So at at the start um we we start with this to actually get the power source a secondary power source. And then once that's finished, we would come in with a second project um to add
the banks uh as needed. And because battery technology's in increased so much and gotten a lot more advanced, we could even be looking at systems that could be brought in as like a mobile option that plug-andplay where you could plug it in so you could leave the island
with it if you had to. Um you know and uh and whatnot. So um yeah, it'd be looked as a two-phase project. This is phase one. >> Okay, that that clarifies that. Thank you very much. And um I did mention this to the city manager when I met with him.
Um and so uh uh city manager, I would still like to see if we can get on any of the buildings, Cape Center. Um or >> help me with the one next door. I just had a brain for you.
>> H uh >> Cape Center. >> Yeah, Cape Center. >> Cape Center. >> Cape Center. And then C5. >> C5. We have it. >> Um, >> I was hoping that we might be able to get some information as far as analytics on what our FPL bills are for those
buildings. >> I have that >> before and after so that we can um have those in our records as far as >> Sure. >> the cost savings for the solar arrays. >> Yeah. So, we did um certainly do that after because since it is a grant,
they'll want to see statistics. Uh but also we have stats for the community center. Um we believe the current system there is saving about 12,000 a year off off utility bills about $1,000 a month. Um so it's pretty good. And it's offsetting about 54% on average of the
building's usage uh per year. >> And on C5 it has batteries? >> No, >> not yet. That was one of the ones that we have on a CIP. >> We have an independent system now that we were able to get really low cost um that we is mobile. Uh they're literally
little like look like backpacks that you wheel up and you could take them out because I really like the ability to a have it be mobile in the sense you could go power other things >> like Friday fest activities or you know um movie in the park or whatever
>> and if there's ever a disaster event where you know there's going to be massive flooding or just some calamity where we shouldn't be here you take the system inland and move it use it for whatever you need then bring it back and deploy deploy it as needed. I love that versatility. I vision that for probably
doing something with BCSO. So, >> okay, wonderful. That's those were my questions. Thank you very much, Zach. >> Thank you. >> Or host a city council meeting on the beach. >> Or host a city council meeting on the beach.
>> Zach was brought that wonderful idea forward there and uh that's great. So, Council Member Jackson, those were concluded to clarify how this was going to provide backup from the generator if there were
no batteries. That didn't work with me. Now, I know it's two phases. Thank you, Zach. >> Yes, it would be kind of a useless project. >> That would be a difficult thing to do without the second phase. >> Yes. >> Okay. I'll make a motion that we
um approve consent agenda number 83. I'll second that motion. >> Got a motion by Mayor Pro Tim Kellum and a second by council member J uh Jackson to approve item 8.3. Any further discussion?
None. City clerk. >> Council member Davis >> four. >> Mayor Prom Kellum. >> Four. >> Mayor Morrison. four. >> Um, oh gosh, I'm sorry. Uh, >> Willis, >> Council Member Jackson, >> Council Member Jackson,
>> four >> and Mayor, I'm sorry. Um, Council Member Willis >> four. >> Thank you. Pass consent agenda item 8.3 passes 5. Which now brings us to our first item for action, item 9.1. We're at a hour
and a half point. We typically try to take a quick break. Council, do we want to keep going through or take a five minute break? Let's take a break. Recess. >> Yes. City clerk's office. >> That's why I had a brain fog. Um, don't you have to approve the consent agenda
as amended um with >> Thank you. >> everything. >> Or is that the way we went about it? Is okay. >> No, you I think the the council approved three of the items and then approved the last one separately. >> So, you have two separate motions. Yeah, I mean that's acceptable.
>> Okay, thank you. >> Thank you. Okay, so uh we're going to take a break. We're roughly at 7:30. Try to get back in here in 5 10 minutes. Whatever we need. When we're all back, I think we can get started. So, we'll reconvene
shortly. Thank you. >> Yeah. Well, you know, our AC's going out. >> It is warm in here. >> Sorry. >> You want a new AC? Let me smoke them. You should have
the uh the city the mayor's office was We we did have we did lose our signal earlier. I'm not sure if our signal is up yet or not. Um Michael, we got a thumbs up. Okay, looks like we're good. Call the meeting back.
>> Call the meeting back to order. It is 7:45 p.m. We are continuing our regular city council meeting here. We just finished the consent agenda and we are now at item number nine uh item for action. We have one tonight, item 9.1,
which is a resolution 202516. Mr. City Manager, if you want a quick overview here, the agreement for offsystem construction and maintenance with the Florida Department of Transportation. So, uh, this evening, Mayor, sorry, I
was getting a message about our live feed. Uh, so this resolution pertains to a project with the Florida Department of Transportation, and Tim Carile, our capital improvements director, is here to elaborate on that project. Go ahead, Tim. >> Thank you.
All right. So, as you guys know, in the past, they uh wanted to do a roundabout down there in front of uh the gas station, North Atlantic Avenue in that area, and uh it was shut down um because residents and and and uh people in this
area did not want it. Um so, their next phase of project that they wanted to to kick off was the uh North Atlantic Avenue realignment with International Drive. Uh to do this realignment though, they would have to buy the parcel that's across the street from North Atlantic
Avenue. Um a parcel, actually a partial, which what I'm coming to understand, a partial purchase of that property. Um and they are going to end up putting International Drive right there across the street. So it's a clean uh over over
whatever you want to call it. Um, but within saying that, they're also going to kind of uh level off A1A to where it's not like the Daytona International Speedway. Um, I call it the Daytona International Speedway of Cape Canaveral. Um, so that it's not a big
hump and it goes over. Uh, within this though, this is one of the the phase of project that they're going through right now is there's four areas. There's International Drive, there's Jackson Avenue, um there's I believe Harrison,
and there's also Longpoint Road where they're going to put some additional storm water infrastructure. Um I have reviewed the plans. We had an engineer review the plans. Our attorney reviewed the plans. Um and we feel like it's not
going to have any negative impact on our storm water system. And if if anything, it's going to catch the water before it impacts the uh closest point, which would be the intersection of Poinsetta and that road on on Harrison and
Jackson. Um, which I I uh strongly agree with. Um, the one on International Drive is just a matter of putting additional storm water infrastructure in for the newly the newly paved road that they want to put in there. Um once they're
done with all four of these sections, uh they will liter they'll pretty much deed it back to the city to maintain. Um everything's going to be on FDOT's dime. They're paying for everything. Uh but we will have to maintain it once it's deed
back to the city. >> Thank you, city manager. Anything else beyond what our capital projects director provided? Okay, great. Council, we got a resolution. This is a one reading. And uh
>> I think >> Mayor, just one other one other point. Um Tim, we just need to mention that um >> Yes. >> Yeah. There there's also um a perpetual uh stormwater easement that the city would convey to the Florida Department of Transportation
um over um um small segments of the right ofway intersection with A1A and um near the um proposed realignment of uh International Drive. and that's all covered in the documents,
but it's just worth um noting that um >> that point. It's also in the title of the resolution. >> They'll be doing uh some some minor improvements over in the stormwater improvements um on several uh
intersection sites um on A1A um and the presidential streets. And this this agreement would require the city to convey a small uh storm water easement to FDOT over the portion of right away that FOT is going to uh enhance.
If anything, I know you said we don't think it's going to have a negative impact. That's fantastic. I think it should imping international drive across that vacant lot there on the I guess north side of the Wells Fargo building, right? um are fortunate that it should improve
especially flowing east the 100 block. I know we all think further south fill more but are they increasing the pipe size or anything in that area that would further improve that we know about? Uh,
no. The the main line, we have a main line that runs from A1A out down inter the old international drive. Um, and it actually goes through a baffle box system and then out to the, uh, the river. Um, with that being said, they're
going to leave the infrastructure that's already there, um, and then tap into it for the new system. Um, I told them I didn't want I told told them I didn't want to get rid of the old system. It works well. that's actually on the international uh basin which we have no
problems with. >> Um they're not going to increase pipe size. I believe they're going to use, if I'm not mistaken, I'd have to look through the plans down International Drive. I think they're going to either be using a 15 or an 18 inch storm water pipe uh with your type-c inlets, your normal inlets that we put throughout the
city. So, um, one thing to note though is that a lot of people, and I've been asked, well, isn't that going to add to your the amount of storm water that's going through that basin? And to be honest, it's the same amount. It's just being caught earlier before getting into the neighborhoods.
>> Great. >> Yeah. >> Thank you, council. Council member Willis, >> I would uh make a motion to approve resolution number 2025-16. >> I'll second. Got a motion by council member Willis and a second by council
member Davis to approve resolution 202516. >> Have some questions. >> Is there any? Yes, council member Jackson. Discussion >> on the motion. >> Um okay. So, hello Mr. Carlile. >> Hello Mr.
>> Thank you for all your help with this. I'm I'm wanting to verify what is a a raised urban curb because we have those cement blocks that were installed on 192 down in Palm Bay
that they're now removing because it gives people nowhere to go and vehicles are literally crashing into them. So, and and although this sounds great and I know we've talked about F DOT even I was
involved as a citizen with the roundabout. I just want to make sure I understand and have clarified. >> What What portion are you talking about so I can get on base with you? >> I'm looking within the within the states
right away. Um it says re reconstructing state road A1A to an urban curb and gutter section. >> The first recital I'm sorry to interrupt in the whereas it's >> Yes sir.
>> of the resolution. Is that right? Right here. >> Um actually the beginning of the agenda. Yeah. The summary. >> Same thing. Okay. >> Agenda item summary. >> Sorry, Council Member Jackson. Thank you. >> Oh, thank you. Um, and so it looks like they're they said
with 10-foot travel lanes, is that going to be the remaining two lanes, north and south, even though we're adding the pedestrian islands? Am I correct? So, you're actually asking about the the
plans, the the the plans that they sent >> is what you're requesting. >> Yes. And I looked at the plans and just trying to um make sure that I understand them because it doesn't we don't see the lanes marked on each side.
>> So, I want to make sure we have two lanes going north and two lanes going south. >> On which part? international >> um on A1A. >> Oh, no. That's going to be Yeah, it's going to stay the same. All they're adding to A1A is a median. >> Okay. Median in there.
>> Okay. So, the urban curves that they're talking about >> in the summary on this agenda item and also within that resolution, um I'm I'm wondering is that those curves that they make the corners more curved? Is that
>> a type F curve? >> H >> like a type F. Well, I don't know what >> it's a trying to explain. It's it's about a curb this high. Instead of Miami curb, which is kind of transition like this, a type F curb keeps people from running
off the road unless you hit a big curb. >> Okay. So, will we have I guess a better way for me to ask this. Okay. So, we're going to have two lanes both north and south and have an island >> for people that are walking to cross. >> No, no,
>> no. These are just medians in the middle of the road. I think later on they would like to put some midblock crossings in. >> That might have to do with islands. Uh but for this purpose of what they've given us, it doesn't have any midblock crossings. They're just strictly islands
with with turn lanes. >> Okay. So, it will have islands all the way from the north end of our city down to International Drive. >> Uh all the way down to Longpoint. >> All the way down to Longpoint. Yes.
>> Okay. Um and a a the medium will be 15.5 ft. >> It depends on which median you're talking about because there's multiple mediums. >> Okay. And I'm looking in the agenda item
summary just so you know. That's why I'm trying to verify this. >> Yeah. These are these are just u this this resolution is for the international drive extension the realignment of international drive. This does not have
anything to do with the actual state road A1A project. That project's not ready to go yet. >> Okay. That helps that helps me because in the summary all of this is in there and I'm trying to figure out how we can have 10ft travel lanes have four of
those those that'd be 40 ft 15.5 ft and then 9 ft I think on each side. So, I was trying to make sure I understood that. And I also was concerned about those perpetual curves or perpetual the curbs that they have down. They're
removing them in other parts of Bvard County due to accidents. We don't want any more accidents. Our first responders have enough to do. Um, so that was one thing. Um, then
we won't end up with any of those any of the speed bumps like they had in Cocoa Beach that appeared, right? >> Yes. No speed bumps. >> Okay. Well, the boat almost went into the landscaping thing down there when a guy with a trailer hit it. So, wanted to
verify that. >> And I think that's it I had on this. just I was wanting to get a clarification because it did include um part of the diagram the phase submitt for January 2025 is in there and like
that second page shows some of the medians. So I was trying to make sure I understood. >> Yeah, I believe that's going to be the next phase when they actually start doing that part of the road >> if I'm not mistaken. >> So this is only Longpoint.
This is uh storm storm water on Longpoint, the entry to Longpoint, the entry to Harrison, the entry to Jackson, and along International Drive that they're proposing. >> Okay. Yeah. >> All right. And then the the last the last question I had on this was um when
they place they're keeping a perpetual easement and they're adding storm water pipes like you're talking about and then the storm water pipes will be owned by the city after install for us to maintain. >> Correct. >> Okay.
>> Correct. I wanted to make sure that was understood as well because we're adding into the the cost for maintaining infrastructure. >> Right. I can tell you that storm water infrastructure has lasted quite like since the '60s. The original
infrastructure was placed in the '60s and we actually just had it um lamped by Tetratech to get the GIS coordinates and stuff like that. And they they had told me that our infra our storm water infrastructure is actually in really good shape. That's that's the difference between storm water and sewer. Sewer
will eat away at the the pipes and stuff and storm water can last over hundred years. So >> Oh, that's excellent news. It's not going to be that. Yes. >> Okay, that's all I had. >> I do want to add though that the uh I'm not sure if I included this, but they do have a timeline for the project. Um
right now we're at the negotiation and the local support for updated plans uh timeline. Um the next major steps are going to be the final RW order of taking which is uh December of 2026. Um then the demo and clear work which is 223 of
2027. And >> what was that? That was 2023 2027. >> Uh the final RW order of taking. I believe that stands for rightaway if I'm not mistaken, does it not? >> And then uh the rightway demo and clear work uh not until uh 2027. Uh that's
February of 2027. Um, and then, um, I'm looking at monumental map recorded when they actually record everything that they've done, not until August of 2028. So, you can see this is going to be a very long drawn out project. It's FDOT.
>> And so, the construction piece of that, um, what will be the dates for that, Tim? >> The actual construction. >> Uhhuh. I'm looking at possibly >> the February 27 start and it looks like
to J or August of 28 correct and that's recording. They probably finished the construction prior to that but yeah >> is that I didn't mean to jump in but that sounds about right. >> So February 2027 to what I'm >> August 2028. >> Thank you. >> Yeah.
>> Is that right? >> Yeah. Yeah, it looks like they're doing the rightway demo and clear work in in uh February of 2027. Correct. >> Council member Willis, >> uh just to to clarify some of the things that Council Member Jackson was asking
about, the the project with the uh median and a lot of the improvements on A1A was what I reported on last month about being pushed out to 2040 by FDOT.
So those that that part of that project because of funding >> has been pushed way back. >> So they are going to be about 2027 they're going to be coming from 520 and repaving A1A >> working north from 520.
>> Working north from 520 and that's when they're going to be putting in the pedestrian hybrid beacon >> here at near city hall. and uh they'll be paving over a lot of the the work that they're doing here. >> Wow. >> So, what was that start date on that?
From 528 >> or 520. >> 520, sorry. >> Believe it's going to be December 2026 or January 2027 was when they're going to start. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. I mean, that's that's just what happens
when the budget goes from 11 billion down to four billion. They push everything back. So, >> way back. >> Well, you you also saw what happened with the the Bright Line station. So, >> delayed.
>> Well, the the funding went away and they have to they're reapplying. So, >> I just like to add one more comment that I think this is a really good um a really good idea of what FDOT and and I'm glad they're kind of going forward with it because I don't know if anybody's ever come out of International
Drive wanting to take a left on A1A. You got cars that are racing up there heading south. That's a dangerous intersection. >> So, um what's that? >> It's the worst right-hand turn or left. It is very dangerous. >> Neither one. It's bad. There will be a
entryway to Wells Fargo off International Drive. It will have its own dedicated turn lane. Um, and then to get out, of course, you can always go out on A1A from that that ingress or egress that's already there. So,
>> thank you, Mr. Carlile. >> You're welcome. >> Mr. Mayor, >> yes. Mayor Pro Tim Kellum, >> I have a question, Tim. >> Yeah. um on the the banking Daytona Beach Bank there. What happens to the um parking lot in
front of the lampost there? Will if they flatten that out, will that still be a parking lot for them or? >> Absolutely. Yeah, they're not they're not messing with any of that. As you know, there's a guardrail there for people that are taking the corner. uh that whole section I believe is going to
be uh lowered down with the with the road. So there's going to be a section of it that they're probably going to you know lower down all the way from I'm going to say and I I don't mean to speak for FDOT. I wish they would have been able to be here tonight, but um under my understanding,
um it's going to be right around the J just a little bit after the Jackson area and then over to uh North Atlantic Avenue. And that's where they want to start trying to paper it down. They're not looking to uh implement any future like any additional uh things over in
that area. So, they're not taking up anybody's uh private property or anything like that. >> And then that Jackson Avenue because of the fire department being there, that's not going to be affected by the alignment of International Drive. >> That is not I have I have kind of keyed
in uh some uh players with the fire department though when they go to put that storm water pipe in uh the FDOT, the city, and the fire department will work to make sure that the they they can get in and out safely. And the only
other thing I saw in here is um in the paperwork it says Alimont Springs for Tim Carile. Did we move city hall? >> What springs Tim Carile? >> It's a
big scribers area. >> This is FDOT. We're talking about >> page five of 13. Yes, it's a five of 13 and six of 13. >> Five of 13 and six of 13. I should have printed out. >> I think if they send you stuff there,
you're not going to get it. >> I don't think so. Yeah, that's uh I'm glad we we communicate on emails. Um I'll have to tell them to uh Oh, yeah. I see that. Wow. 225 Newberry Port Avenue supposed to correct that.
>> Wow. All right. We pointed that out to him, but they they haven't uh sent a corrected version apparently. >> All right. >> The budget cuts got him rattled. >> I thought he was I thought he was moonlighting so when I saw it. >> No, white out. They couldn't afford any more white out.
>> Oh my goodness. >> That's all the questions I have. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Yeah, you are right. I wouldn't get mail there. I'm going to have to call them and say, "Hey, have you guys any of my mail?" >> My goodness.
My comments after hearing this uh council member Jackson's concerns about what happens in that phase above ground the decisions for the storm water management system that design is based on that. So there was not anything I
think that we Cocoa Beach Palm Bay examples and it's I mean pushed out so far that >> it may never happen. >> Right. So, okay. >> Wow. >> I think >> Don will walk all of you across the A1A
at Fridayfest. >> No. No. >> Well, never mind. That's Council Member Davis. Is there anything? >> I'm good. >> Okay. Anything else? Council, we've got a
motion and a second on the floor. I think that's in for discussion. If so, city clerk Council member Davis >> four. >> Council member Jackson >> four. >> Mayor Prom Kellum >> four. >> Mayor Morrison >> four. >> And council member Willis
>> four. >> Resolution 202516 passes 50. Thank you all for helping. We are now on to public hearings. Uh tonight we have uh two public hearings
both on well the first one is quasi judicial public hearing resolution 202517 lot split lot split for 9009 and 9119 astronaut boulevard. The petitioner is part view in and suites LLC. The motion
to consider the adoption of this resolution as follows. Mr. City attorney. Do you need to read this one? The resolution? >> I can read it in unless I blow it up.
>> This is um quasi judicial matter. It's resolution number 2025-17, a resolution of the city council of the city of Cape Canaveral, Florida, providing for the division of approximately 7.19 acres of land owned
by Port View in and Suites LLC and located at 9009 and 9119 Astronaut Boulevard, Cape Canaveral, Florida. The existing tax partial IDs are 24-37-15-00-252 and 24-37-15-00-267
into two lots of record for development purposes providing for the repeal of prior and consistent resolutions severability and an effective date. >> So this is I don't know if you were going to do a presentation on this or do
the developer requested just make a clarifying note that this was never rejected uh as a lot split. It just has yet to be processed to match what is on record with the county. >> We've been here before.
The one the one the one difference on this one is that they went to the county and actually got tax parcels. They did not convey the land. The land is still owned by the same owner, 7.19 acres, but they did go to the the county requested
two tax parcels after um the hotel was uh the second hotel, the high place was constructed. And um at that point I I think they approached the city I believe um and submitted a lot um application.
The um the city planner, the city engineer, myself, we reviewed the application um under our respective disciplines. lot went into uh reviewing this application because the they're
proposing the two lots. Um and there's two separate uh hotels, one built on each lot. And um in reviewing the plans um you'll see that there's a a covenant
that's going to be required because there's a shared storm water facility. there's a shared access uh point and shared utilities. So, pursuant to uh the city's codes and regulations um appropriate asurances had to be given to
the city that um those shared uh facilities would remain shared if they someday they convey um one of the lots and it's under separate ownership. So, you know, based on the staff's review, um staff, uh is recommending
approval. I believe there's somebody here representing the applicant to Mr. Mayor, and at the appropriate time, you can give him an opportunity to speak. >> So, that's the resolution. Council, at this time, before we go to public hearing, are there any technical
questions on what we heard from our community economic development director and city attorney? >> I I would like to just clarify. I watched the um planning and zoning meeting and uh Connor was here and he
was talking about the original lot split was not approved by the city and then later in the meeting he said it was never reviewed. It never came to a board. So was it denied or did it never come to a board?
>> It went to the county first and then and so now this is uh be in compliance as opposed to going to the city. may have miss have misspoken if he said lots split in the context of what they did with the county. They went to the county and they had um call them cutouts um
created for uh two um uh geographically defined lots and they requested a tax parcel ID. >> Okay. So they they received an additional tax parcel ID um in addition to the one that they had for the So now
they have two tax parcels. They do not have two um development lots from from the city's subdivision perspective. So, um, so Connor, I think, was alluding to the fact that they they went to the
county first to get tax parcels, you know, and then they came to the city after that to seek approval for subdivision of land. I would have, you know, frankly, they should have done it the I would have done it the other way around, but nonetheless, um, they were told when
they submitted the application that there's no guarantee um that the two tax parcels would be, um, meet all of the city's requirements for developable lots. That all had to be reviewed by the city engineer, the city planner, and uh
fortunately for them um the tax partial uh geographical boundaries that they went to the county to get the tax partial IDs for um did not create any issues um in the opinion of the city engineer, city planner. Um so the lots
are in in in compliance with the city's codes. >> Thank you. Any other questions at this time before we go to public hearing? >> Well, all all I was going to ask and uh Mayor Pro Tim Kellum basically asked
that and Anthony answered the question, but uh you know, my only concern was if there was not a hotel sitting there and they hadn't gone to the county first, would we approve the the split?
would and Anthony said that there was no issue with the planner. So, um >> correct. It was found in compliance with all of our requirements and uh and approved uh by the PNZ uh planning and zoning board on October 8th
>> and >> Okay. So, PNZ >> they approve >> being a land use. >> Yeah, >> they recommended they recommended approval. >> Yeah. And so that was the meeting you were referring. So, yeah. >> Yeah. I just didn't understand >> that statement. M. Okay.
>> Council member Jackson. >> Um, I have a question about, let's see, and let's see, chapter 98, section 98-66 of the city code
four. Um, and this is on page six of eight of the agenda item. >> Okay. in regards to the uh driveways and no the finding was that there was no
driveways being eliminated and no new points of conflicts created safe ingress ingress and egress. Um and there's a map um city clerk if you would pull the map of the property up as it is right now I
think with the two sections on it. I'm a little slow on where you're you said page eight >> six of eight >> of the >> of the agenda item agenda summary. >> Okay. I was a little too far. I was on
another page eight and okay six of eight. I'm I'm following I did eight of eight for some reason. Okay. >> And then if you look at the plot map >> Uhhuh. It works for th this particular
company because it's two different hotels owned by the same company. Um if you look at the sketch to a company description >> Mhm. >> on exhibit one >> Mhm.
We have that right side of the parcel, the plot for uh what has the Hyatt on it. That right side would go back to the country in and suites. Is it part of the lot for the country in
and suites? And the reason I'm asking this is our code speaks to having a street for access. And if one or the other hotel is sold, then
that let's say country and then suites is sold or the the front hotel, the Hyatt is sold. Um, you know, are we going to have any access issues in the future if one of those properties is not
owned by the same, you know, if both properties aren't owned by the same company? because and so I wanted to to see who who would own that that would that is essentially like a street but it's really a driveway >> the flag lot.
>> Mhm. On the on the south side of the lot >> um for the subject parcel 1 250 acres. Is that part of um country and in suites lot the way it looks on this?
>> Not sure for me to address, but I'd be happy to try to answer that if you'd like to. >> I just I think right now would Thank you so much. You absolutely have a chance uh to do that. I think if was your question? >> Yeah, my question is
>> is there going to be access issues? >> Yeah. And the reason being is that our code literally uh speaks of on that page six of eight >> um in the summary it refers twice to our
uh code stating that we need um it has to have the land shall be such as to provide by means of a public street each lot with access to the existing public street. So
want, you know, I'm wanting to make sure that >> can I address that issue, please? >> Yes, please. >> Yeah, let me cut to the chase on that. So you'll see in the package, it's a it's a it's a rather lengthy exhibit and and it's called a declaration of reciprocal easements. So you are correct
that the ingress and egress along the southern boundary is going to remain the in the ownership of the um of the country in suite hotel. Um however under the declaration of reciprocal easement there will be a perpetual ingress and
egress that requires that both the higher place and the country in have that shared access which technically is access to A1A street access to A1A. So that that's a shared access point. Same
thing with the drainage. They have a shared drainage arrangement as well as some um some shared utility arrangement. And they also have um um will have shared access throughout the site. So the cars can traverse um across country
end uh pro uh cars would be able to traverse across uh the higher place property through shared access. So that was a big condition of this in order to ensure code compliance with with street access among other things. Um and they
have agreed uh to this uh perpet this this um declaration of reciprocal easements. Also they're agreeing that it affords the city's right to be able to um you know enforce um this perpetual nature of these shared shared facilities
to ensure that um you know the properties remaining remain in compliance as as intended if this um lots split is approved. And thank you, city attorney. And if one or the other were sold, will that
continue? >> Yes. >> Okay, that's what I wanted to make. >> Perpetual forever, if they want to make any amendments, they have to come to the city of Cape Canaveral for review to determine whether or not they do any damage to what we have required as conditions of approval.
>> Okay. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Great question. Any other at this time? Mr. Cox, thank you. I think we are ready to hear from the public. Mr. Cox had provided a card, but if anyone would
like to speak on this matter uh when he's finished, more than welcome to speak for questions and the attorney did an excellent job so far, but I am available if there are further clarifications or questions anyone might have. I am
intimately familiar with the document he was referring to. Correct. >> And Mr. it would be helpful for the record. Your role with this property? >> Yes. I'm I'm part of the ownership group of the property. >> Yeah. And full name, please, Mr. Cox. For the record. >> Full name, please, for the record.
>> Dale Cox X. >> And I got his card here as well. Okay. >> Council, any questions for Mr. Cox? None. Thank you again. Any other public comments on this hearing item?
>> This is a one reading, city attorney. Okay. >> One reading. Um if approved, you know, it'll go and um the ownership group was going to sign a joiner to the resolution as well as they have a lender. The lender will also sign a joiner agreeing
to all the terms and conditions that the city council um would approve in the resolution. >> Thank you. So, we'll go ahead and close public participation. Council, there's a motion. I'll make a motion to
approve resolution number 2025-17. >> I'll second. >> Got a motion by Council Member Willis and a second by Council Member Davis to approve resolution 202517. This time we've heard uh answer questions
and given the opportunity for public participation. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, >> council member Davis, >> four. >> Council member Jackson, >> four. >> Mayor Prom Kellum,
>> four. Mayor Morrison >> four >> and council member Willis >> four you resolution 2020 202517 pass 50 on first and final reading. Thank you.
We are now on to and thank you again for your help. On to item number 9.3. This is our last public hearing item which is ordinance 07205 city attorney. This is first reading of a proposed
ordinance. An ordinance of the city council of the city of Cape Canaveral, Florida, amending chapter 110 zoning article 8 residential plan unit developments of the city code to update and clarify procedures and standards providing for the repeal of prior inconsistent ordinances and resolutions
incorporation into the code separability and an effective date. This uh draft ordinance was reviewed by the planning and zoning board and recommended for approval. just to kind of start things off because I think Tamson would like to say a few
things too. Um the uh there's been um a property owner that's expressed some interest in doing a a PUB residential project. The city currently, interestingly, has two uh PUD processes. Um one for mixeduse
commercial projects and then has a residential PUD process. So, um, this ordinance only addresses the residential PUD process, city's comprehensive plan, uh, requires, um, or or encourages the
city to have, um, a planned, uh, unit development process, um, that's intended to, um, provide some flexibility regarding um, various land use, land use patterns, developments, etc. um all of those comprehensive plan
policies um are set forth in the recital of the ordinance. So this this ordinance is consistent with those uh policies. Um, and the RP the issue with interesting issue with the RPUD process. As far as I can tell, this residential
plan unit development process has been on the books since the 80s and it has not been used once in in the um since it since it was adopted by the city council. And frankly my view of it is it hasn't been used at all is because while
PUD processes are supposed to be flexible the city's current RPUD process is anything but flexible. So um you know developers usually tend to come to the city and and deal with traditional um the traditional zoning district
regulations that the city has on the books. So the purpose of these revisions is try to um in inject that flexibility into the residential plan unit development process. And fundamentally what you need to clearly understand is
that an RPUD is a zoning designation just like a C1 zoning designation or a C2 zoning designation. An RPUD um is a zoning designation. So in order for any project to be to utilize this
RPUD process, they have to go through a zoning process and and it's and it's a different kind of zoning process in that to get through the process, they have to have a development plan that is um travels in tandem with the
RPUD zoning designation. And at the end of the day, if the council decides to to grant the reszoning, the development plan and all the terms and conditions that may be warranted by the city
council get incorporated as if it's its own zoning designation. Okay? It's its own unique zoning designation that has its own plan, has its own terms and conditions. Um, so it
that's the way it's supposed to be set up and and developers are supposed to have the application flexibility to do things that sometimes are out of the box, but rest assured, nothing gets approved unless the city council at the
end of the day approves an RPU zoning designation for the specific development project that's being proposed. >> That's not what we're doing right now, though. Right. what you're doing right now is just trying to change the rules
um to provide the flexibility to perhaps entertain one of those projects >> and I just wanted to make that point. It's helpful. >> And I know we used outdated, but it's
really just did we have 10 acres then in the city when it was, you know, it's hard to find in Cape Canaveral. 10 >> one parcel of continuous. >> Yeah. >> So that's the ordinance. We're going to have two readings of this.
>> Two readings. >> Ason, did you? >> Yeah. So currently there are no developable 10 developable 10acre properties in the city. So the current ordinance uh is not useful as written. >> Um and we have one PUD uh designated in
the city and then zero RPUDs. So if it were to happen, it would be shown on the zoning map as Anthony has outlined. And then this reduces the minimum acreage from uh 10 acres to four, which would be which would be uh uh commensurate with
reality of what our city looks like. So um so this uh also is intended to provide meaningful access to or coastal shared access to residents and um have uh more power over flexibility of these developments and um provide a stream
streamlined uh option if we did want to deem the plan favor favorable. Excuse me. >> How many acres? I'm sorry I just jumped in there. >> No, please. Um, if that's it, I think now is the time for some questions and it is a public hearing item. So, after
we're done with that, we'll hear council. >> How many acres do we have developable right now? >> Well, we're uh total >> like of the are you do you mean vacant land parcels? >> Yeah, vacant land parcels.
>> I can look that up for you. I apologize. I don't >> have Well, we know we're 90% built out, >> correct? >> Okay. And we and how many of those that vacant land if you know Tamson how how much do you do we know how many acres
are >> for each one? >> Yeah. >> Uh I can pull that up. We have a we have a listed um that we do track but uh but offhand I don't know the total. >> And the reason I'm asking is so that I can ask the city attorney this question.
um rather than approving new zoning, which is what this essentially is doing. Am I correct, city attorney? This is a would be a new zone added if I'm understood what you said correctly.
>> It it currently exists today, but there has been no designation of any property RPU. >> Okay. Okay. So, it exists today that um I I just indicated that to get an RPU, it's a zoning district.
>> Okay. So, it exists although no one's used it. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. So, we So, >> we're trying to change the procedures and standards to make it a possibility. >> And I understand. I just don't see
um since this hasn't been used I don't see why we would do this versus just giving a variance on side approval. >> No, I would that No, that's not you have a variance is a fundamentally different
concept. A variance for like side setbacks or any setbacks requires an undo and unnecessary hardship. Okay, th this is about you could get you could get deviations from existing code, but those deviations are not coming at you
from a hardship standpoint, but more of a creativity standpoint. You're giving developers, architects, the engineers flexibility to to to to make deviations from the code. Mhm. >> as part of the holistic approval of a
plan. >> Understood. >> A little bit different. >> I mean, the variance process is is very very uh stringent. >> Well, and my I still don't I don't see
we have a minimum amount of acreage left to develop. How creative do we want a developer to be on their own? I'm I'm I'm just seriously asking council this because we have minimum
amounts of that land but some of them are lumped together. So, how creative do we want allow, you know, it to be for a developer? >> And I think that's something council
really has to think about because of the fact that we have a lot of the lots together down along Ridgewood. We have multiple lots that have streets cutting them off, but that's all available acreage.
Um, we have different spots that So, it makes it hard for me to to understand um, do we just open this up since it's
never been used? Well, what it allows for is a lot more creativity as far as being uh uh aligning more with best practices and resiliency and sustainability uh protecting common spaces uh and um and
uh access, public access. And so we um and pedestrian connectivity as well. So I when we say creativity, I think it means being allowable for more sustainable design plans that we're hoping to encourage in the in the community.
Yeah. So it's reducing it. It has not been even a possibility. I mean maybe the large bill. So go because of one example in the summer the 10 acre minimum and the rigid lot sizes and those things.
So if it's lowered to four acres that opens up I mean it's easy the two vacant lots on central and north atlantic the one of columb on the other side A1A those are two big lots probably
combined double digits I don't know 12 I'm guessing one at 8 acres but 15 acres both of those fell under the 10 >> and those are vacant like your question
some few more um but there can't be that many more vacant 4 acre parcels and see a lot a lot of this falls into terms that I'm seeing in this thing okay so for example we we're
going to allow the pre preliminary application and the final application to be combined is that correct From what I'm understanding, city attorney on >> um it would be it would be an option. >> Okay. >> But
>> and then we're removing um like on page 10 of 27 preliminary development plan application where that could be meshed together as an option. Right. Um,
nothing uh herein >> or we we're adding nothing herein shall preclude the developer from bypassing at its own expense and risk the preliminary development plan phase proceeding directly to the final
um and then ensure that final and the preliminary requirements are met simultaneously. And just what keeps popping in my mind is Filillmore because we had them turn in the site plan. It uh they kicked it
back and said we need to make changes to it. They turned it back in again and it the changes weren't made. So how will we ensure on doing that kind of thing? uh city attorney that we're able to,
you know, ensure that the the plans are correct if we don't have that two-step process. >> Okay. So, it it little bit is it's a little bit different. Um in order to get the zoning the RPUD
zoning designation, you're correct. There's a there's a preliminary development plan followed by a final development plan. The ordinance does, as you indicate, allow an option of consolidating the two, but you have to comply with both requirements,
preliminary and final. The preliminary is intended for a devel and there's a lot of risk if a developer were to try to consolidate a preliminary development plan and final development plan um together in an RPUD
um context. But the way it's supposed to happen is that the developer would come in, seek an RPUD zoning, and the first first thing that would have to they'd have to do is have their their meeting w with the staff, and then they would have to present the preliminary development
plan through the process. It's more of less like a a a little bit more detailed than a than a basic concept plan, but it it it kind of sets the table for the developer to proceed to the more
detailed final engineering of a of a final development plan. So it it it there is a two-step process, but if they consolidate it, the developers got to take the risk of doing everything required under the final
development plan all at once for an up and down vote of the city council um because city council is the only one that can approve an RPUD. So there's a definition of a final development plan. Final development plan would include as
required for the specific development project, a subdivision, a preliminary subdivision application if applicable, the complete site plan for the development project, um any requests for deviations, all within an engineered set
of plans and and um for consideration without even testing the waters with a preliminary plan. So that's what I mean by it's more challenging and and risky for a developer to go to full engineering and say I want to I want to
have preliminary and final at the same time. There's an enormous amount of expenses and engineering and architects to to actually put that together. Um and then the council would would would process it
>> all at once. >> Have we had someone that wanted to do it that way? I don't >> Are we just giving them the option? >> I think it's just giving the option. Um but but
I would I would say in most cases it's going to be it would be preliminary first for the reasons I just expressed how risky and costly it is to get to the final development >> plan stage and and the ordinance doesn't get get adopted until you have all of
those um applications in front of you. Um that's the other aspect of of the RPUD process. The way it's the amendments are um the council is considering the whole application process
holistically together before it approves or denies the zoning designation. The zoning designation is like a cover of a book, right? The contents of the
book are would be the the subdivision, the site plan, the deviations, the development agreement. >> So, are we approving these terms that we're seeing in this or just the the zoning, the RPUD zoning,
>> just the process? >> So, this process including all of these details. >> Yeah. I the way I understood anything that's in the the 27page ordinance, anything that's >> well and that's >> stricken is being removed. Anything
added and that's what I I saw and highlighted all of that >> because we've got accepting a letter of credit for a maintenance warranty bond. We've taken out >> Yeah. Can I can I should have mentioned that too. You'll see some and I I think
thought we referenced it in the agenda package, but there are a lot of strikeouts on some detail because they're absolutely redundant. >> The definition of final development plan includes all of those other applications
that I talked about, the preliminary subdivision if applicable, definitely the site plan. >> Th those code sections have those require all those things, the letter of credit, right? And and and
those things. So rather than have the redundancy you would just rely on those code sections trying to streamline it. >> Okay. So like that saying in lie of any bond they can use an escrow account or a letter of credit and we already allow
that is what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Um and then the other one I had a question is termin termination zone on B city attorney. >> Can you give me a page and a line number? >> Yeah. 8-27
line item 39 and 40. >> What page? >> 8-27 of the >> is it this 8 of 27? >> Oh, 8 of 27 >> 40 >> 39 and 40.
>> Okay. So on that if the uh failure of the developer to submit a final development plan for the entire development then we're striking out that the site would revert to previous zoning classification. So even though that developer, let's
say, you know, I didn't get it develop developed for whatever reason, we're going to leave that designation on that property even though it's not developed now instead of reverting it to the previous zoning.
>> It would have to go through the resoning process. Okay, that's that was it. We'll have it together. >> Well, the >> See, and it wasn't before because we're striking it out, >> but under the new way, it would have to.
>> Mhm. >> So, the new developer, let's say they don't want to do an R rp. Thank you. um and they just wanted to do typical residential lots, then they'd have to go
back and have it reszoned. >> Let me Can I clarify? >> Sure. >> Let let me let me clarify. So if the developer fails to submit the final development plan
for the entire development um within the time period and that's uh laid out in the other section. So if they come in and and they get the preliminary I mean the fi the preliminary development plan they have a
certain time period to come in and get the final development plan and which it would be the actual RPUD zoning designation. If they don't do it within the time period then it the preliminary development plan is automatically deemed revoked. So there there at that point
there has not been any change in zoning designation. So there's no need to revert back. >> Okay. >> Misspoke. So this is clean up of language of the existing code. >> Yeah. >> See, and I'm going to tell you, I think it would help me as a council member to
know what is a change and what is cleanup of code. We've gone through this before with other code. Um, but for me it'd be very helpful because that way I know we're not changing something and have to look at each thing and determine
why are we doing this like like I'm doing right now driving everyone insane, I'm sure, or at least the city attorney. >> I mean, these are great questions and and if this moves on, I'd be happy to walk through the whole ordinance with you if you would like. Um there is some
significant cleanup in this because frankly the 1980 version of the RPUD process in my opinion doesn't even comply with modern times. It's inflexible. There were things that there's things in here that just don't
make any sense. That's one of them that you pointed out. Um because a preliminary development plan in in a PUD process is is not a is not a it's not a zoning change. It's not a zoning should not be a zoning change until the actual
RPUD designation gets approved by council as a zoning district. >> And and the ordinance was even it it was just it doesn't really clearly come out and even say that what it should have been intended to to to do it didn't it
doesn't do at least in modern times. >> Okay. And so, um, city attorney, I know you went through every one of these, all of this, right? >> Or did you? >> Did I? >> Mhm.
>> Uh, yeah, actually. >> In a lot of detail. >> No, I just wanted to make sure it was one of those things you would verify or that the legally >> I'm drafting it, too. >> Okay. You wrote this. All right. That's that's clarity. That is good to know as well. Thank you.
>> Okay. So, it's mostly cleaning up >> Connor and Tamson, but yeah, I spent some >> It puts more um uh uh power and control back to the council. You'll have to see every part of the plan as it comes
forward. So, you're more engaged in the process. So, that if if that helps clarify. >> That does. Thank you. >> And that's several meetings ago, you wanted to streamline. >> Yes. >> All right. And there's other there's other aspect other things that are going
to be done to streamline just the run-of-the-mill traditional way the city conducts development permit business. >> But in terms of RPUD process, >> this is streamlining it because everything has to be packaged up and presented to the city council
>> for the zoning change. >> Okay, that's can't get any more streamlined than that. Goes to the planning, goes to staff, goes to the planning and zoning board, >> and then everything comes to you for approval. So, >> okay. And that thank you for that clarification because I wasn't sure what
was going on with this and so that's very good to know because I am interested in making sure that we are streamlining this process. So, and I'm glad to know that it's cleaning up, you know, our old information. Okay. All
right. I halt now. >> All All good questions. I think I'm just going to chime in on one of the so like I see some improvements that you know on 11 of 27 line 14 adding in landscaping
and tree removal as a part of the uh exhibits that are required you know you'd think that we'd have that but that's that's important but on the next page 12 of 27
I what is the this is one that maybe the council was involved. I see a ship. We've got building official going to community development director. So on page 1227, line 10, uh 12 of 27 line 10, application review. Now this is
preliminary. >> Mhm. >> But it says preliminary development plan shall be reviewed formally by the it used to say building official and city council. And now it's to the community development director. And I saw that in a couple of other places and it struck
the city council. >> Was there I guess that's one example where the city's not involved, but maybe there's some good reasons for it. >> Yeah. No, that the council is involved that it kind of cleans up the application review process. So the preliminary de development plan is first
reviewed by the community development department to determine feasibility and suitability of the plan prior to submission to the planning and zoning board. And then the planning and zoning board shall then review the preliminary development plan to determine conformity with official plans and policies of the
city and the requirements of this section. And then upon completion of its review, the planning and zoning board shall recommend to the city council the approval approval subject and conditions or disapproval of the preliminary development plan.
So it it just removed I think uh I think a misplaced statement and city council. It's in the wrong spot of the process. >> Yeah. But it's but >> and I said director, but it's the department represented largely by the director.
>> Yeah. They have their um review um group that takes a look at it. Um it would, you know, the community development department would have the planner, the building official, the fire marshal, >> right? Every right, everybody's everybody's kind of involved getting their eyes on it. So the first step
would be to determine whether this is even feasible and suitable. Um and then it goes to the planning and zoning board. Then it comes to the council. >> So this is one of two readings obviously. I mean excellent questions.
But if we if this passes it means that the opportunity presents itself >> and then we're going to go through if we exercise this right that we're now learn the procedures that if a project comes it's going to go in tandem. we're going
to be able to see uh or be involved in the process and then we would formally go through two more readings and probably a lot more other meetings to actually change that zoning like we did the one time >> on the they wanted to develop the out
parcel for the storage units I think right that was the only other R but that wasn't I want to say RPUD that was CPU wasn't it the commercial the plan use development >> so okay So, I mean, yeah, you're right. I mean, if they if they went through the
preliminary, then go through the final development and all that. I mean, the council would see it at the preliminary would see it two more times as part of the reasonzoning itself. >> I mean, you'd see it you see a project like this multiple times um to have
multi multiple opportunities to make comments. One other point to be made too is another aspect of this while the four while the while the eight minimum acreage was reduced from 10 to four there's also another requirement that says that there needs to be a minimum of
15 dwelling units. >> Mhm. >> All right. In order to be eligible. So it adds a little bit more texture to that uh acreage requirement. And you know, frankly, you know, how many um 15 dwelling unit um you know, single like
single family projects has the city had, you know, you know, in in the last couple of decades? Not not too many, right? But um so anyway, that that's another another layer to the ordinance that doesn't even exist under the existing
and it's all about providing some additional housing opportunities. >> Yeah. And I know that we've added on the Cape View Elementary and that's what my head is thinking is residential housing is extremely important. But I want to make sure are there any more questions before we hear from the public on this
one if anyone chooses to speak. Mayor Perim Kellum. >> Yeah, I have a couple questions. Um, moving it from 10 acres to four. Where did four come from? Because if you look at the lots in the city, the vacant
lots, a lot of them are less than four. I mean, why why is it four and not six or three or where did four come from? Um, four came from some preliminary,
frankly, some preliminary uh, inquiries about um, a possible project. And it's more than four four acres, but I mean, four seemed to be um, looking
around at vacant land and opportunities in the city seem to be more of a realistic number. um certainly more realistic than 10. Um so >> I I I totally agree with streamlining the process and making it better for
developers and more creative for developers. I just think that um you know I looked at a bunch of um vacant land in our city and the only place I could find that was more than 10 acres
was the old Johnson Controls place. That's 10.86 right next to the church. >> Okay. >> Um but >> that's 10 >> that's 10.86 86. But everything else
that you I looked at and we you talk about access to the river and the things that scare me about that is, you know, we have mobile home parks along the river and if we change it to four, like
Cocoa Palms is 6.75. Are we going to have developers go in there and get rid of the mobile homes and put a development up? Um because a first of all, it's a lot of our senior citizens. It's the only real affordable
housing left in our city for people. Um a lot of people come down for the winters in these places. And I just think that, you know, as a council, we need to think about how this is going to affect the future, you know, like and
how, you know, we talk about hotels and and things that are going on down there. You know, the council that decided in the EOD district that you didn't need a minimum of acreage, >> could they see what it's happened down
there now? you know, um I just and the other question I have is it does this I mean is it it so it would come to the council each project because my also my fear is
150 units per acreage. Are we going to have 150 short-term rentals? And again, you know, we're losing our school because we can't we don't have families homes here. Um that's a concern of mine.
Um also on um you know, we're talking about one project. Um but also in this zone you could have single family detached dwellings Anthony and multi multi
multi-family residential dwellings including apartments it would that also I mean I'm looking at section 110 403 um page six of 27 >> right
page six of 27 >> yeah the top of the page age. Okay. >> Permitted uses. Yeah. We're not proposing any changes to that section. Um but you're correct. Um because it's an RPU process, a residential PUB
process. So you have single family detached bonding units and multif family residential >> um which are all residential projects. And what I mean, so again, it would be a project by project um authorization by
the city council. So somebody couldn't come in and say, "I want 150 units of short-term rentals. It would have to be go through the >> the the density um maximum density of 15 dwelling units per acre is in the
comprehensive plan and that's not changing." Um, >> so you have that that density cap in the comprehensive plan. Um, so that's going to put some guard rails on the scope and size of any residential project because
you can't exceed 15 dwelling units per acre. There' be 60 units on a 4 acre parcel theoretically. Same thing with all the other >> Yeah. I mean the theoretically. Yeah. >> Exceed that. >> Yeah. You they would not be able to exceed it. >> But you know I mean you got to do all
the infrastructure and and residential amenities and driveways and all that stuff. So that >> knocks down the density. Um, gross acreage tends not to be the best indicator of the maximum maximum density when you start doing storm water and all
that other stuff too. >> It gets knocked down. But you're right, 60 would be the max. Um the minimum would be would on an RPU would be 15 dwelling units a minimum of 3.75
um um dwelling units per acre >> because um that there needs to be at least some substance to um the residential project to even be considered right >> um because it's all it's all about providing housing. With respect to um
vacation rentals, frankly, every every residential unit that's approved in the city today could become a vacation rental. There's nothing that the city can do to prohibit vacation rentals. Um it's just the fact of life because of
the way the legislature um the legislature preempted municipal home rule authority. The other aspect of this is um you know if it's going to be single family there's I think there's I think it's in here too that there's oper there's opportunities to have private uh
private deed restrictions right running in tandem with with the project that may impose some limitations on vacation rentals but that would be up to the property owner right >> like an HOA >> like an HOA like in the declarations and covenants um like some of our
condominiums have you know provisions that have um you know minimum rental periods um which private private u property owners can impose um on you know they can't the municipality can't impose it but a private property owner can can place all sorts of limitations on
vacation rentals >> are >> one more question so if a property just an example >> the hitching post used to be the hitching post I don't know what it is now but they have 6.96 acres there. So
they would be able to develop four acres of that 6.9. Would that be how or >> No, it wouldn't the whole like it would have to have a minimum of four acres to be eligible to apply. >> Okay. >> So 6.9 would certainly be 2.9 acres more
than the minimum. So they, you know, that property would, if it was all together, >> um, be eligible. Also, you know, if you have smaller vacant parcels that are less than four and they can be aggregated, >> right, to meet the minimum four, then
they would be eligible to apply for RPUD. You know, RPUD is not for everyone, >> right? >> Okay. I mean, a lot of a lot of developers will just rely on, you know, traditional zoning. RPUD is a you know it's a challenging process um because it
provides more discretionary flexibility in the approving governing body than traditional zoning. Traditional zoning is if you come in and you apply and you meet the requirements, then uh there's nothing really too much the city can say, right? You meet the minimum
requirements. In RPUD, you have to design to a standard that the city council finds acceptable before an RPU zoning would be approved >> unless they're in an economic opportunity overlay district location. Correct.
>> We're going to talk about that one. >> Yes, we are. Let's not make apples and oranges. >> I know we almost I was like public hearing is not needed. >> Really good questions and I think the
hitching post in the uh >> today they're not a possibility. I think it's you know think about the impact that if this opportunity is now there I think it would be helpful
between now and the second reading is to get an idea on think how many 4acre just properties not even if they're developed to your question council member Jackson and really a redevelopment question of
Mayor Pertim Kellum is you know your existing that this would it I guess properties would qualify for and not getting into aggregating and merging that opens up a whole another you know if you buy two properties but
>> well to me I'm just you know like Mango Manor you know it's 6.51 acres I just I hate to see developers come in buy the land and remove >> all you know, mobile homes or whatever
because again, it's affordable housing for our senior citizens. I just I'm just thinking way down the line. >> It's good thinking. That's your job. Well, Mayor Prom, I do appreciate that
and we appreciate the level of stewardship and that's one of the reasons that we wanted to to change this process so council would have that uh ability to offer that stewardship and protection for those parcels because that a potential developer would have to
win you over in order to to they couldn't that we're taking I mean effectively we are putting the power and council to to be those stewards and that barrier of the of approval. So that's how this ordinance would impact uh these
parcels. We can certainly pull together the list of properties uh that way, but the goal of this is to make sure that level of oversight and stewardship does come back to the city. So, and and we and staff is supportive of that that
>> can we get it a a breakdown of how many when you look at those numbers of parcels, how many are in the economic overlay opportunity overlay district. >> Yeah, I have like the maps in my mind, so I'm looking them off like a lot of
them. Yes, I can look. >> It's easier to say what's not along A1. >> Exactly. Uh, okay. So, how many 4acre parcels and how many are in the economic overlay district? >> Excellent. I I'll pull that together for you guys before the next reading.
>> And and and do you want >> the the 4acre parcels that have a future land use map designation of residential? Because in order to have an RPU >> Yes. >> zoning, you have to have an underlying future land use designation of
residential. >> Yes. Thank you. Yeah, I think those would be the >> Yeah, that would be good. >> Yeah, the the possibilities without going through land use changes and
>> can't predict land changes. So, >> okay, those are all great questions. Council member Willis, Council Member Davis. >> No, I'm I'm I'm good. >> Okay, it's a public hearing item. Um, we've worked through some questions. It
is a lengthier uh ordinance change. This is one of two readings. If anyone chooses to speak on this item, please come forward. Open it to the public. Seeing none, we'll go ahead and close. >> I am so sorry.
>> You take your time. Thank you. >> That's okay. I Shannon Roberts and the question is does this deal with height? As you know, height has also been a concern by the residents and I was just wondering if there's any provision that we might
introduce that deals with height. >> Good question. It used to be 45 ft by referendum by the residents and then we made an exception for air conditioners and then it's gone on and on and on
to where I think I forgotten how the >> what the latest is but it's in the 70s. >> Let me >> as I recall. So, I just wanted to bring that up as a consideration for the council if you all want to make a difference in the height for the city
and the skyscape. I didn't see anything on height. I think our city attorney is might look into that or see if now is working. I don't remember really focusing in on that issue at all and these changes, but >> but if it's in the economic overlay
district height, you know, that's obviously the >> we're going to talk about >> while he's working on that. Excellent question. Is there Well, today the properties it we learned it has to be land use
residential. We know that 45 feet, right, would be the R3 zone. That's the highest. 25 feet for R1 and R2, >> right? So, >> well, we made we've made many exceptions
as as we know for the commercial development and so forth. And the intent from the referendum as I understand it was to for all residential commercial to be limited to 45 ft. And then we made an exception for
the air conditioning cuz that was the argument by the developers. They couldn't put sufficient air conditioning with a new air conditioning capability, you know, that was higher. So they asked for and got permission to do up to 60
and then since then we've just been as we know making special exceptions. So I'm not even sure we've addressed it to be honest and we've just let the hotels do what they want is my perception against his perception.
No, understood and it's >> obviously made that as a part of >> comments. City attorney, that question if >> I'm still researching it. >> Okay, don't worry. >> It's a great point. >> Thank you, Dr. Roberts.
>> I'm not sure I'll get a quick answer to it, though. >> Trying. >> Okay. Any other public participation? Seeing none, we'll go bless you. We'll go ahead and close the public participation. Uh council, um I think if
if we're ready to make a motion, we can still discuss further. Uh but I think that on this first reading, >> I think the height is >> I'm looking at that right now and I
think um something that we need to address before second reading. >> Yeah, >> I have that on the list. Uh, city attorney, would um would that fall under building code or any restrictions
already? >> It'll um it'll it'll fall under the um RPUD ordinance that gets approved for the project. Um, I think we might need to have a little bit more clarity on that in the in the proposed ordinance. >> Excellent.
>> At first blush, I think that was a good point to raise. >> The land use has to be residential. That's big. Some of these like the property the old Johnston controls that land use is commercial.
the jump spot. But I think that >> I think so. >> It would be mixed >> if that's true. Right. That's not they'd have to go through a whole another >> I think in the the the 4 acre sites that filters that. >> Well, in Johnson Controls, wouldn't that
be eligible for mixed use? So, >> through this path, >> but not through this path because this is fully residential >> and I think it's already zoned C1 anyway all the way to the river. Yeah, it's one big parcel. >> Okay.
>> So, do we make a motion? >> I'm I'm comfortable knowing that we're going to have a second reading moving forward. And I think we got a chance to ask some questions tonight uh around working backwards from height to you know understanding how many properties
this impacts uh how it's going to change procedures uh the council's involvement in the process and you know as an example of taking one that process looks to be like
a complex and difficult path that really the council could I mean we've done this a couple times in the commercial the the way village property was a very different form of this right that was a creative project that he could have went in and
built a hotel I think and he did what he he's or he's proposed there um council member Willis >> um just a question for Anthony on page 24 of 27 >> line one. Can we not just add a number?
>> Oh, that's where the height is mentioned. >> Yes, that's uh that's the the sentence that um I've honed in on. We could add a number there. I was just looking up the R3 zoning designation. The maximum height
in the R3's residential zoning designation is 45 ft as an example. >> So if you were applying for an RPU in an R3 area zone, then you could go to 45 ft
in an R3 zoning district. Right now today, you can you can go as high as 45. And I think it's the R2 might be the same. >> But if that residential
is there R3 in the economic overlay district, I think that layer of >> it's definitely not >> supersedes. That's the issue that Dr. Roberts has always raised is yeah 45 ft R3 but when
you in that economic overlay district >> well and that's why I'm going to have a hard time even voting on this until we talk to the on the next agenda item >> because of how all of this is overlapping 2012 I think that went in
>> yeah that's been in a while um >> yep >> so I I think for purposes of of this ordinance We'll just need to insert a um you know the maximum height of of some number um
you know R3 is would would allow multif family. It's maximum 45. if it's in the EEOD, you are correct that I think the maximum height would would be 45 unless there's
um a higher um height approved and in the works is the other uh ordinance streamlining the processes to return the approval authority to go above 45 ft to the city council, >> but the EEOD
allows up to 65 ft. Some say greater. Yeah. >> And all the property that I was talking about along the river is in the >> A1A. Yeah, the A1A frontage is
>> I'm not sure if the property actually adjacent and abuing the river is in EOD. I don't have the map. Um I can I can go to the other agenda item because I think the map is in that agenda item. >> I mean if if man road north is not EOD
which is a very decape shores or Yeah. I don't know. >> I mean, if if if the council's inclined to do a maximum of 45 ft in in the RPU, I certainly could take a stab at doing a um some language that notwithstanding the EOD, the 45
foot maximum height would prevail in our PUB. >> If if it fell in the EOD, this would prevail. >> I could I could I could draft some language >> unless it was an R2.
Well, that even exists. This would be RPU would be RP instead of R2. Right. >> Right. >> Well, the council member Willis pointed out that it said, you know, it says buildings shall not exceed the maximum height allowed in the zoning district. >> That needs to be correct.
>> This would be a new district, >> mayor. That needs to be corrected because the the height brought up that that Miss Miss Roberts brought up looking at that one line that Councilman Willis um referred to. >> Mhm. that needs to be cleaned up. >> Okay.
>> So, we need to insert a maximum height. I'm I'm suggesting at least for now, put the 45 feet as a maximum height um for an RPU zoning district. And if the council is concerned about going higher than that for an RPUD, um I can draft
some language to make it so 45 is the max in an RPU. >> Does it have to be 45? Can it be lower? Yeah. >> Right. If it's R2 in a >> Well, I mean, no, it RPUD, no matter where it is,
>> it's a zoning. >> It's the zone. >> Oh, I see. I'm sorry. It's just a complete >> Yeah. >> brand new. >> Doesn't even make sense the way it's written. So, that >> like R2 maximum height is um >> 25. >> 25.
>> R3 the maximum height's 45. >> R1's 25. an R1. Yes. Probably 25, too. >> I like the >> twotory single family home. >> Five is 35. >> But, you know, if you if if you know, multif family is permitted, you know, I
mean, >> well, if you're looking at 15 uh units per acre as a maximum, >> got to go up. It's it's going to have to be a certain height because you would have maybe five units on each floor or
of an apartment for example or so the height would need to accommodate those 15 units on an acre, right? Per acre, >> right?
But, you know, there's ways to deal with that. Um, but height going up a little higher is is one way to add add density, right? Um there are also designs that we've seen just floating around where
you know that they're doing um hurricane proofing of residential units >> where your first floor is basically an open garage >> and then your living units are on your second and and third story of a single
family home. >> Right. So >> style. Yeah. >> What what if we came back with like you said 45 ft and then in the interim of everything else we're looking at see if there you know what the
developable lots might tell us where something might happen or could happen or but for the sake of the argument make it 45 ft maximum no matter where it's going to be. My um if I if I could for um just to do like a quick recap of what we can put
together for the next read would be, you know, to come up with a a a height a reasonable height allowance um that allows for hurricane proofing and reasonable design without becoming a
large commercial space. Um and then um identifying the 4acre parcels that could be impacted with a future land use designation of residential and then also within an EEOD overlay and then also just determining what is cleanup and
what is an actual change in our um in the ordinance as well and then we can bring that to the table so it's a bit clearer uh for the next for the for the next read. >> Thank you. My my concern would be an RPU
in an R1 area where you're not going to have >> correct >> these higher buildings. >> Mhm. and you're suddenly putting 45 foot building right next to a ranch style
single family home >> or some type of um you know it should be uh what's the language that we use that there's um uh in accordance or character >> commenurate commensurate with the
>> with with the neighboring area >> well and if you think of it I'm going to give an example Um, in regards to what council member Willis said, we just talked about the Hyatt tonight and it was 2 some odd acres, whatever that was. They
have 150 units on that >> and 80% lot coverage. And if you look at residential and we're trying to get 15 units on an acre, >> cut that in your mind, cut that high lot
in half >> and then how tall would you have to go to allow that type of density on that lot, >> you know? Oh, >> and I'm I agree with council member
Willis that we have uh pe areas in the city where development has been allowed that you have a low slung building and then you've got one that's four stories or three stories or whatever right next to it almost zero lot line. So I agree
that we need to be careful with how we allow that. So, how how would we Tamson find out what would be reasonable expectations for code? >> Mhm. >> On an acre lot with 15 units,
heightwise, and size of the lot coverage wise. >> So, I I think the example you just gave was the hotels though, and wouldn't that be not a residential designation? Yeah. I'm just giving that as a figurative thing so that you can think of the size of the building. >> Absolutely. >> Right. Yes.
>> And the fact that's 2 acres, a little over two acres. So if you cut that lot in half, think about how would you fit 15 units on that, how tall would you have to go to do that and not cover the entire lot in concrete? Right. Right.
>> And so there's got to be some kind of example somewhere in, you know, building code and maybe the city manager can tell us how we can find that out for or Tamson or one of you. Okay, that's I
agree with Council Member Willis on that. Oh, let me let me also add in the u in the house policy legislative policy committee housing code.
There is a bill in going to be introduced in the Senate or the House this session restricting the ability to regulate consistency of
designs in an area where it's complimementaryary to other and we need to we need to have that buttoned up so that we don't get preempted on it.
Because if that passes it, you know, somebody can build anything anywhere, >> any design. >> Yeah. I mean, that's the big point of zoning. And if they do that, >> they're they're you know as well as I
do, sitting on policy committees. They're they're going after everything they can to preempt municipalities from doing what they need to do. So that if there's some way we can strengthen that aspect of it as well.
>> So So what I'm hearing is um the architecture design of the units being consistent with one another and and not so diverse from one another. >> Well, not so diverse from the other areas around them.
>> Okay. For instance, if uh where I live, if somebody was to come in and build on one of the lots next to us >> in between our condominium complex and um bayside, Bayport and all that, it all looks very Mediterranean,
>> but somebody could come in there and our code says it has to be consistent and complimentary to the to the surrounding area. They could they could come in and and just put collaborative siding up and whatever. It could it could look like a
farm. It you know it wouldn't be consistent. >> They're stopping a city's ability to prevent that. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I think teams in your summary was excellent. I think you captured everything we had asked.
>> Thank you. Plus I guess that coming down the pipeline at the state is So, do we need a motion to approve it or because there's other things that have to happen? >> I think if we were going to make any it
would be difficult to make amendments tonight >> if there was a desire. I mean, the one the height sounds like even that one give you a chance to make them in between now and the next meeting. But for us to vote for those amendments, I
think we could we've done this before. We approve it as written, but obviously the discussion reflects some changes and I think there's consensus on that that I can make those changes >> on the height. >> Yeah. On the height before second reading and then, you know, we'll
highlight those those changes for you before you uh consider second reading >> and the second reading will be November 18th. >> So, we don't need a motion because >> Yes, you do. for first reading our first reading
>> if we want to. >> Okay, I'll make a motion that we approved >> ordinance. >> I forgot where we are. >> Okay, it's a long one. >> The RPU ordinance like I don't think there's a number yet. >> Okay,
>> I think Wait a minute. No, 07. Yeah, 07-2025. 07-2025 on the first reading. >> Second. >> Got a motion by Mayor Perim Kellum and a second by council member Willis to approve ordinance 072025 on first reading. Is there any further
discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, >> council member Davis, >> four. >> Council member Jackson, >> four. >> Mayor Prom Kellum, >> four. >> Mayor Morrison, >> four. And >> Council Member Willis,
>> four. Right. Ordinance 072025 passes 50 on first reading. Thank you again. >> Thank you council. We appreciate it. >> Yes. >> Okay. Which that right there uh ends our public hearing items. And now we had um
obviously early in this meeting today we uh amended the agenda to um add on a discussion item regarding Cape View Elementary. Council member Jackson, I think at that time it's the
same as the item discussion that was on 10.1. My thought was let's see where we are at that point and obviously if you want >> I brought oh go ahead >> you're to >> let's get there >> postpone it and we I mean if we don't
take any action I think it'd go on as old business on the next meeting or however best suited. So if you're good with that I think we can roll in roll into the item for Cape View which is really just a discussion item and it's an important one. Council
member Willis, I know you made >> well the motion. >> Yeah. Um I would like to discuss what we could possibly do as a city council if um and I know Anthony can reiterate the the
position we're in as a city council with Bvard public schools and what we what we really can and can't do, what we can and can't say. But, uh, I know that when we were talking about the roundabout and we
basically created a resolution to submit to FDOT that this was not what we wanted, not what our residents wanted. And if it's possible that we could do something like that, uh, you know, Bvard
public schools is Bvard public schools, same thing as FDOT, but, uh, they they have their jurisdictions and their criteria, but I think we should at least make known how we feel about it as a
body and if it's something this council wishes to do to weigh in um, as a body. I would welcome that. >> Thank you. Um my comments, we heard some excellent public comments today and I
agree council member Willis. I think you know it's a if the the work product that comes out of as a resolution, I think that's a good idea. But as uh Miss Bass said, you know, speaking their language and understanding them and as uh
as as we and then the opportunity to meet um with and I think the date was predetermined, but Reash, if I understand,
we can work on a date. What you were talking about was what I thought and this just an idea was sort of two meetings. I didn't know what it looked like because I didn't know you were going to be here and speaking on it, but it would it in my head it looked
exactly like that is Cape Canaveral stakeholders obviously council members, members of the public, PTO principles, anyone. Let's have a meeting Cape Canaveral together. And then that meeting coming up on I think the 28th.
Uh, yep. October 28th is what you said. Um, I didn't think I was thinking more January. But hey, what we don't want to do is and and well, first I don't want to jump ahead is I would like to have
that opportunity to we know that we like the city we can do resolutions. That's something we can offer. you know what does the resolution say and the board members a majority of them
have the power to make a decision I assume it would be three members could essentially merge and dissolve so what what are the positions of those five board members and so we're not going into a a meeting in January
October emotional you know talk uh Cape Canaveral the city is not on the same page and I think I would and I'll wrap up my comments here is to say to have a meeting with
internal Cape Canaveral and when I say internal I mean not the school board. The second thing was if a town hall can happen and would happen. I did meet with uh chairman Trent briefly and he is in
the discovery the factf finding stage and is looking and acquiring and um I I the one thing that I want to share is it's a recording and I cannot speak for for board member or chairman Trent but
he said it was about enrollment is if there's a way to improve enrollment increase enrollment um and that was the big takeaway. So when we say speak their language, well for that one board member that was really important at that time to him. So
if we go just as an example, we're going to talk about you know what the city can do with enrollment potentially just brainstorming and I share the same questions on if Cape View if that happens what is that economic impact? I
think that's an excellent because that's what our jurisdiction is is what's in the best interest for the city of Cape Canaveral. That's what we were elected to do. And so if this school leaves, I think internally when we meet with with our the stakeholders, if we can all come
together and meet down and in with the city, uh that would be very good. And if it comes out with a resolution that we can bring to uh the board meeting to form, we don't want to go into that meeting not all on the same page as much
as possible. And a resolution, no pun intended, is a page. >> Yeah. >> Of being on the same page. So, uh I love that. That's it for me. Um love to hear the >> Council Member Willis. I think if you I think we all definitely wanted to
add this on and discuss it but to summarize resolution would be good. Uh obviously we need to meet to do that but if Cape View and the PTO teams and all the stakeholders there send us some
dates. Yeah, >> we would need to publicly notice it. And I think that would be great if all the council could be there and our city clerk's office would obviously have to be involved if we all meet. Could the city host or maybe it's better to meet at Cape View? No matter where we meet,
needs to be public accessible. Needs to be noticed and minutes need to be taken to meet Sunshine Law. And so if we do it at Cape View, we would just need to have enough le lead time to meet those public notice laws. And um my answer is
absolutely. If I could make it I I will be there and I think if we can coordinate some dates hopefully the rest of the council feels the same way we can meet all together count in in that meeting that we can >> um we we are running up against a clock.
>> Yes. >> I think we would have to do this before the next council meeting. >> Yep. >> Otherwise we'll be down one council member. >> Yes, I I think that would be excellent.
Uh if we could meet in the next Well, gosh, today's the 21st. We're talking about a week out from that meeting. If you would do, we just ask that you come forward, council. Do we have a problem with >> No. No. No. >> Please. Yes.
>> I think this is discussion. This is what we're trying to do is figure out what we can do, what's our role, how we can help. Okay, just just to clarify this meeting that's coming up on the 28th, >> we are not on the agenda. We're going for the public comment section.
>> Okay, >> that's still very important and we need to get there. The meeting where we are on the agenda is November 18th. That's when we have to go in there with everything we have and plead our case and then they vote in January. So, we
want to do as much as we can as soon as we can. >> That's council meeting. Excellent. You said October 28th is the next one. We're not on the agenda, but we'll have public participation potentially. >> Prefer to have council representation
there with us on the 28th, whatever that can look like, but the November 18th is when we really need our arguments in hand and need as much firepower as we can have. When you say we are not there that Kate View is on
that agenda. >> Kate View is on the agenda for November 18th to be discussed. >> That's our council meeting. >> Will just put it out. We have a council meeting on that date. So, thank you for No, this is good though. It's good that you I think we'll have to
>> What was the reserve council date for that one? I don't have it in front of me. Well, we we also have >> we have terms ending and yeah >> terms beginning and >> yeah I think
that's a big meeting for us right that into that's the point is that's our signed eye out with and and in it's swearing in um that one's difficult to to move however ever. I'm confident that one, if not all of
us, somebody can that October 28th meeting. My hope is that we can win this or get the communication, the message that we want prior to that meeting. Um, and if if a resolution, I mean, that
those are the words of the majority of council, right, is maybe not as effective, but having that for >> anyone to walk in and we can certainly deliver something if this council chooses to them prior to the meeting >> and if somebody there at a minimum can
emphasize that this resolution is here and and try to support with the key points. But, um, I think they if we do we are up against the clock and if we do a good job that they're not going into
that meeting not knowing where we stand that would be I think >> okay a lot >> well I mean the whole closing of the school to me is a self-fulfilling prophecy I mean we if they close the
school move the students young families areness necessarily ly going to want to come to Cape Canaveral. They're going to want to have be residing near the elementary school that their children are going to go to.
>> And if we don't have one, what what are we going to become? Especially that I mean that stat 90% it's >> well but I mean an even even more interesting stat was the number of the percentage that were having lunch and
breakfast at school. >> I mean that that tells you somewhat about the demographic. And to to a point made earlier in public comment about busing kids to Roosevelt,
if the family doesn't have a car, >> I mean, that's that's putting a burden on that family. What are they going to do? Well, they're going to probably have to move unless they work within walking distance, but more than likely that's
probably not the case. So then what happens? So, you know, it's there's there's a whole lot to this onion. And I think that thankfully we had the discussion but that's why if we can meet
before the November 18th meeting internally call it a workshop where this whole council potentially has the option to be there this city council um before the November 18th and
sort of like a joint meeting to where if we can have all the stakeholders and potentially even open up to any anyone in the city, parents beyond. Maybe it's kind of a two-part to where we can meet
and and sort out anything. And ultimately, it's to put a that this city council has a position that we can submit to the school board on what we believe is in the best interest of our city. I think that that's >> the goal. >> Yeah.
>> And I've heard a lot of good points. share some of those concerns. Um, and I've heard some really good ideas, you know, that some of the ideas that we heard like M tonight, you know, this
statement's been made that the city has got disposable income and money. Well, and the property next door was used example. I mean, that property was not just cash. that was a strategic purchase that was on debt and it was a controversial split vote. But
nevertheless, that was a decision that was made by the majority of the council, but it it was a debt. You know, we didn't have money laying around to do that. And but most importantly, it's not it doesn't seem to me that it's a money decision of the the school board. I mean, everything's related to money, but
it's this 250% enrollment. Do you move Roosevelt to Cape View or Cape View to Roosevelt? They seem that it seems Cape for you de Roosevelt due to the middle school campus proximity. Um, and I'm ready to step in and and play
the role that I can in any any capacity. Um, and I think that if they do not make a decision in January, is that the then >> they will not if it is not made by then, that's kind of the end, right? where
they could not come in much later than that school's about to that was >> start board member Trent was if they don't do it by January then it's going to go another year so that's important distinction
>> is there a date where we could meet have a town hall at the I can I mean before November 18th >> is Is that a large enough venue? >> I'd like to do a city. I mean here this would not be large
enough. But I mean, >> yeah, the gym at C5. >> What's the occupancy roughly at the gym? We do our employee lunch in there. >> Okay. as an option and I think that
>> Okay. >> Well, I I'll commit to be at at the 28 October 28th meeting. Um but I mean the the only date I'm concerned about is November 1. So So um
we're doing a charity golf tournament for the Cape View. So um but yeah I you know whoever I mean obviously as a council we we can't discuss it but you know just to be there to let them know
we are concerned and uh listen to what they have to say I'm I'm happy to be there >> and I think that you know we all get you know members of the community reach out to all of us right and then you know council member Jackson meets one-on-one.
I may not know about it and then I meet oneon-one. That can be really there's pros and cons to that, but just for our schedules and the efficiency is we can all anyone we can have one meeting.
Um >> it could be Melissa, I'm so sorry. I anytime we speak, we do need to go into the mic. That's my responsibility. Well, I think that that was the two-part meeting was to know that would be I think that having an internal meeting with key
stakeholders obviously and then perhaps maybe a recess and then >> open it up for an hour for public to come in and engage similar to how we do ours or flip it, do that up front and then we can have a meeting. city
attorney. Is there like executive meeting or any what other options do we have for if we wanted to meet with if the whole council wanted to meet with >> like it could could we do something just
that those of us that are taking action with the PTO just could we meet you know 10 of us or five of us whatever you guys and >> school guys and just get a game plan because only a few of us are going to be able to
meeting there's just a few a lot of support but only a few of us doing the hardcore ground make it as efficient as I can for everybody's time >> I think individually we could all say very quickly yes but if we were going to
have all of us there I just wanted to see I think >> council's going to be more than one council member is going to go and participate in discussion >> regarding in Cape View and it's some issue that the council is going to consider in the future as a body, then
you're going to have to notice and um you know notice that um appearance and meeting >> which and we don't necessarily have to give a public participation in that meeting, right? If it's a special meeting to discuss and with an agenda
and the business and >> if they were having a meeting, >> yeah, if they >> like if we have a meeting and invite you As long as we don't speak, right? >> If the council members are just going there to listen, then you know, it would not I don't think you need to put a
notice out for that. If it's a community meeting, >> would the community understand that they can't engage the council at that point? >> No. >> They'll have their council members there and they're probably going to want to hear him speak. >> Yeah, you're right. >> Yeah. So, and I mean really is there any
reason that all of us need to be there where you know you can go represent or Don go represent to where the sunshine laws and then come back and report to us and I'm h yes I'm h I just think that you
know as we're all listening if the opportunity that you wanted to be there you could and if that was the case to me it's better to just do follow the publicly notice. It takes a minute and do those things and we still don't have to talk
>> but we're covered. >> Yeah. >> And it it just allows us I think a little bit more >> so latitude. >> So if we want to talk like if I want to talk plan with Mr. Willis for the the meeting on the 28th then I just plan
individually with him. >> Yes. And if I go individually to you guys, I can work with you. I just at >> It's really about Yeah. Us communicating to each other through you or any third
party, anything like that. Yeah. I think due to time being short, I was trying to figure out >> the most efficient method. >> Yeah. I don't I don't want to crush any ideas. I just I'd like to get you guys involved in whatever way we can. If the only way is
a big thing, we'll take it. >> If your goal is to, you know, you that want to share information with the council, all five of us may not be able to make it, but in the case that we got two, at least two, it's a meeting. We
can listen. We don't still have to talk. We want to take action or vote, but we're covered and uh we could capture that. And uh we want to be I think immenable to your schedule and and and flexible and so
not a big meeting and I'm sorry to confuse I think having a small meeting is still the the goal >> and um have to also be open to the public. >> Yeah, I think
>> notice council appearance, right? So >> not quite sure what kind of meeting she's talking about. If it's a private closed door meeting, I would highly recommend that no more than one council member go to that type of meeting for
your own for your own uh benefit. >> Understood. Thank you. >> Yeah, I don't want to break any just trying to understand what what we're allowed to do. I don't want to do anything weird.
Okay, so where we need to go from here. >> I think that if there there was some design some ideas about we want to meet we want to hold a meeting. I think if those requests are made with some flexibility I know time is short and
send some dates if one or all of us or if you can make it I think that's the best path forward. Well, we have a date 11:4 is our alternate date that we could schedule a meeting
here for the council. >> Okay. >> I mean, that's that's on our calendar. 114. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, that's an important one for I think November 4th, which is technically
before the regular meeting. >> Only if you're voting. >> But we don't >> we're not having >> we don't have an election. >> That's true. >> You'll have to find time to vote outside of the meeting if you're voting.
What is the ballot? I mean, we can't have it at C5. If there's is there anything being voted on in Cape Canaveral? Nothing. >> Nothing at a county level. >> Any state >> county board?
>> School board. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's true. Well, >> oh no, not November. That's next November. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. >> Not in our district. >> No, District two, is it? Yeah. And I had a >> had a quick thought like will will it be
possible to have a um resolution that we can take into the um October 28th meeting like if that's a possibility. I know we're like we're real short on time but just wanted to throw it out
there. We'd have to yield to our city attorney if that was possible without us meeting. We'd have to vote October 28th, a week from today resolution, I think. But >> what would it say?
>> Right. We'd have to have to meet. Okay. >> And I think Yeah. resolution by the 18 on the agenda. >> Yeah. So that' be the November 4th we meet adopt a resolution. We could have
it for the 18th. But I think that if we meet or however it turned out, whether it's one-on- ones, a combination of what we said, if we can find that that that will shape our resolution and and so I think that that's important that we can
meet first so that we come into the fourth meeting and if it's at that meeting and get an idea of of what's important to include in it. So could one of us go to?
>> Yes, I think individually or one I think I think you I requested maybe to that we could meet I saw you out at the sign petition. Um I'm happy to meet I think individually any of us can
and I'm willing. >> Well, then you're in charge. >> Should we um >> I don't break my phone. >> Should we plan to meet before the 28th or is that like um or should >> I'm happy to meet. >> Okay. And I think each council member's
availability they can >> and if I understand it right it's like um with the PTO principal and and the uh council members right that is that is that the meeting that we're talking about or like are we
this is like bringing everyone everyone in >> we couldn't all go together >> I think if those members if we are all going to be together the mayor perimps the fourth would be the nearest reasonable date >> and if it's your desire to have those
people there, >> well, we can take action in that meeting. We assuming a majority of quorum show up and we're able to meet >> and u but prior to that, it's probably better to do, you know, maybe one-on ones, >> okay, >> due to short time
>> and uh if and so yeah, I think that's the best path forward. >> Okay. and then we'll go into that fourth knowing and I'm happy to relay but I think you
know we all have different ideas and thoughts and I'll defer to you on if you want to be there on the 28th or what whatever but I think if on our meeting on the 4th if we could have it earlier in the day
for staff's sake. I never I meetings work great for me. uh most days uh >> for the council meeting on the 4th. >> I'm just trying to be mindful of pulling
a pulling a medium a meeting on the staff this time. Huh. >> Who would what part of staff would need to be here? Just Well, we're going to have to have the city attorney. We're going to have to have Esther and her group. We're going to probably have to have Mike and him. So, everybody that
puts on a meeting. >> Sounds like I got it fast. >> Yeah. I mean, if we're asking the questions around economic impact, you know, Tamson, then you can keep going. >> Uh, >> yeah. on the 4th. Uh kind of anything
before 11's going to be tough. >> Well, I was thinking in the afternoon in the Absolutely. You know, just just so that we're not keeping people till >> Yep. >> 10:00. >> Agreed. And my mind works better that time than now. And we're three minutes
from I think our 10 PM. I feel that we're going to from the public comments about the desire to meet desire to have a resolution. Sounds like we could feel good about having it on the 4th. If we could meet prior with
whomever as long as oneonone's um I'm happy to make myself available the 28th. I will need to confirm if I can make that one and I'll go. It's schoolboard website. I assume the time or do you know the time? >> Uh, is it evening? >> Is it 6 or
>> It's 5:30. >> It's in the evening. Okay. I think Council Member Willis said, >> you can make it and really any council member >> October 28th >> the that school board meeting. >> Yeah. >> In VR 28. >> Yeah. >> In Okay. And just to clarify, so I don't
do anything I'm not supposed to do. I've started conversations with most of you over email. Am I allowed to conversations individually or do I have to stick to one person? >> No, I think you absolutely can reach out individually. City attorney can correct me or cut me off. I think where it gets
a slippery slope is if you start relaying messages from council member Will has said this, council member Jackson's, you don't want to be right that conduit third party of the middle. >> She can communicate in with you individually. I would recommend that she
not communicate with council as a group. >> No. Okay. As long as it's okay. I just >> Great. Trying to stay in my lane. >> No, thank you. >> Okay, >> great. >> We're gonna figure this out. >> Thank y'all for staying late to talk to us. >> Yes. And just for the record, I did
receive a letter from uh Pam Lancaster as well. Uh and >> Oh, yeah. Pam. >> I'd like to make sure that we get a copy of this to the council so you can read it. It was >> this the one about purchasing the property? >> No. Okay.
>> Pam is a sixth grade ELA and social studies teacher, >> a beautiful family. She used to live actually two doors down from me and uh really involved in the process and >> she wrote a heartfelt letter here and I think it's got some good points. So,
>> thank you both. >> Thank you. >> Good to go. Thank >> Are we going to get a copy? >> We didn't see this coming when you when we brought you on. had no indication that Cape View I mean it's been discussed in the past but we wish none
of us want to be here. This is not We love our school. That's for sure. >> It's this is the job. >> Yes. Well, agreed. It's We'll play our part in our >> do what we can. Thank you again. Um I
think that's it. Uh, council member, well, we're at 10:00 unless we're going to extend for reports. Council, what do we want to do? Do we want to adjourn or extend for reports?
>> Postpone reports till November 4th. >> Old business. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Wait, did you have anything? I did not. Mayor >> I don't need a motion city attorney to confirm. I know I've asked that to adjurnn.
>> Let's do one. Looking for a mo motion to adjurnn. >> I'll make a motion to adjurnn >> and then I can go down. Right. No roll call. Meeting adjourn. Thank you. I know I get that mixed