It is June 16th, 2026. We are Cape Canaveral City Council regular meeting at the City Hall Council Chambers located at 100 Pulk Avenue in Cape Canaveral, Florida. It is 6:01 p.m. I call this meeting to order. And with
that, Mayor Pro Tim Jackson, would you please lead us in the pledge? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. City clerk, please call the role. >> Mayor Prom Jackson, >> here. >> Council member King >> here. >> Mayor Morrison >> here. >> Council member Shiaak
>> here. and council member Willis >> here. Thank you council for being here city staff and all the members of the community. We appreciate your time to be a part of the meeting. At this time we are on item number four which is the approval of agenda as
written or with amendments. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes. Um I would like to propose that we take item 9.4 4 the beach in paid parking program and take no action tonight but move it to a workshop
later maybe in coordination with the uh budget meetings. >> Okay. Thank you. So uh under the approval of agenda as written or with amendment the amendment I believe I'm hearing is to to take no action with
item 9.4 four and at that time or now uh move it to a workshop. >> Yes. >> Is that right? >> Yes. I mean we can hear from the public but you know not not take a vote on it. Let's let's get more information.
>> Thank you council. That uh request has been made by council member Willis. I I think um >> take >> we will I have one comment card. Um I think if that is the end intent, uh we
can certainly consider that or take action now, but knowing that upfront is appreciated, especially for the community. Uh it's really a decision the council will need to make. So >> Mr. Mayor, uh I'm sorry. Um what item number are we discussing right now?
>> The 9.4 titled Beachend Paid Parking Program. >> Thank you. Yes. Thank you. >> Question, mayor. >> So, if we table it for the evening, can we at least have discussion on when the workshop would take place? Either maybe when we get to that item to do that if the council's prepared that prepared to
have that conversation. That way, the staff can plan. And I had a I had a couple little things that I wanted to mention just, you know, on this topic. Um, I agree with council member Willis that we need to move it,
but I think that maybe we should spend a little bit of time discussing the workshop date like you were requesting, city manager. And so I don't think I want to strip it completely out of the uh discussion or maybe moving it from
items for action to discussion. >> Mr. Mayor, >> yes. My intent was not to strike it from the >> agenda, but just no no action, no vote, and to plan a workshop in coordination with it.
Yeah, I guess one way to handle this under as we're discussing this proposed amendment, if it if no one uh on the council objects to the intent of taking action um to set that intent for the community. I
do think it's important. Uh I don't see a reason why we would have an issue with it. So, >> we can discuss it. We can talk about it. I think it's saying upfront >> we don't stating the the intentions
um and if this council is okay with that we can proceed. I think when we get to item 9.4 you'll have an opportunity to work through what you stated and I guess the benefit would be stating that intent in intention upfront for the community and
for the council. So, if that is uh something this council wants to do, just need to either second that motion or make a new motion. >> So, do we need a new motion?
>> Well, I think it might be helpful to state the the intended motion of the amendment. >> Yes. So, I make a motion to take item 9.4, take no action by this council, and to
schedule a workshop at a later date. >> Is that sufficient? >> Yes. Do we have a second? For the sake of discussion and not the vote, I will second it so that we can proceed with discussion. Second the
motion. Council, any concerns with the motion. I just have things I want to discuss and I can't make that motion yet until we get to the point that we're discussing those because I think there are other options than just going straight I don't
want to take an action on it as far as voting to approve it today. But we have a five-step process and I want to discuss that process and also discuss some other options that I think are important to our citizens. So that's why
I'm not seconding you. I'm sitting here quiet because I don't know how that would work if we approve this um to go ahead and move forward with a workshop when we had that five-step process. So, I think it takes more discussion than
that. Personally, >> the item stays on the agenda as it is. We're just >> I understand but you're saying take no action and move to work >> as a vote on it. Yes. And I'm saying take voting on taking no action now and moving it to a workshop when there's a
five-step process that council has not discussed. I have things I want to discuss in regards to that. So, I'm I don't feel comfortable voting on taking an action in the agenda to do that yet because I think the discussion needs to
occur. the I think discussion can >> the intent is discussion would happen. I mean, we're not changing anything, >> but we're already voting to go to a workshop. And there's something I want
to say >> to discuss a workshop. >> That is, but the motion says we're going to move it to a workshop. Correct. >> I I don't It's I'm hearing no. I think that it's to discuss moving it to a workshop. My understanding is the only
benefit is set those intentions upfront in this agenda so that as we get closer to it, the one thing it would I think preclude the council from doing anything would be to take we would affirm that we are not going to take action on the item. That's what the
motion is. We can discuss it as much as we want. >> And I'm good with that motion. >> Okay, that's my understanding Willis. If unless a council member I think says that they want to take action on the item, um I have no issue with the
motion. We can discuss it as needed. We can discuss scheduling a workshop. I don't think this motion identifies a date and time of the workshop. Uh we would certainly need to discuss that and and a new motion would be made to schedule the workshop. Okay.
City attorney, as we're working through this, is there any issue or concern with what we're considering? >> No. >> Thank you, council. We got a motion and a second to uh essentially uh the decision would be to take no action
tonight. We can discuss it, I think, as much as we want, and we would still need a new motion to actually schedule that workshop. Is there any further discussion? >> Nope. I'm good with it stated that way.
>> Thank you. >> Seeing none, city clerk, please call the role. >> Mayor prom Jackson >> four. Council member King for C. Mayor Morrison >> four. >> Council member Shriak >> four. >> And council member Willis
>> four. Let the record show the amendment and the motion related to 9.4 is adopted 50. >> Are there any further amendments? And if not, looking for a motion to approve as
amended. >> Yes. Council member King. Well, um before we get to the um the section, and I'm I'm hoping I'm appropriate with my timing of this, um to discuss item number five, the proclamation celebrating the year of American liberty
and the 250th anniversary of American independence. Um I would like to um make a motion for consideration to council to have a discussion on having an America uh 250 celebration. Um, seeing as how we've
really done le very little to next to nothing to uh observe the 250th birthday, I would like to uh uh have a discussion on it. I have some suggestions and if this is the appropriate time to make this motion, I do make the motion.
>> My understanding it would be is that I think this would fall under consideration of matters uh to be added on to the agenda. And if I hear you correctly, you'd like to add an agenda item on during the discussion portion. I don't see any items for discussion under
item 10. So, uh, that motion, if I've repeated back, I think is clear. >> Um, city attorney, I don't want to confirm, but I think add on agenda items requires a consensus of the council at
this time in the meeting for discussion in this case. >> Yes, it does. Okay, thank you. So, council, the motion's made. Is there any one opposed or do we have consensus to add on the discussion item regarding the
250 year >> anniversary? Not the proclamation. I think you're >> in addition to the proclamation. >> We'll proceed with the proclamation, right? >> And then we will also add on in a discussion item. >> Any opposed? Record that as consensus is taken. Thank
you, city clerk. Are there any other further amendments to the agenda? >> Seeing none, looking for a motion to approve as amended. >> I'll make a motion to approve the agenda as amended.
>> Second. >> Got a motion by Mayor Perm Jackson and a second by Council Member Shoryak. Any further discussion? >> Seeing none, city clerk, please call the role. Mayor Prom Jackson >> four. >> Council member King >> four. Mayor Morrison >> four.
>> Council member Shiaak >> four. >> And council member Willis >> four. >> Let the record show the agenda was approved as amended 50 which now brings us to our first presentation here which
is a proclamation celebrating the year of American liberty and the 250th anniversary of American independence. And with us here today, I believe we have the Daughters of the American Revolution and the members there. And I
think we have some representatives here who are going to receive it. I'm going to come forward and present this proclamation. And then uh after if you would like to take a photograph with the council, we would be honored to do that with you. Thank you so much for being
here. And uh and if you have any words you'd like to share at the end, you're more than welcome to do that. So thank you. This is an official proclamation of the city of Cape Canaveral. Whereas 2026 marks the 250th anniversary of the
Declaration of Independence, commemorating a quarter millennium of American liberty, self-government, and the enduring belief that all people are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. And whereas on July
4th, 1776, the American colonies declared their independence and announced to the world that governments are instituted to secure the rights of the people and derive their just powers from the consent of the govern. And whereas the
Declaration of Independence, principally authored by Thomas Jefferson, affirmed that rights do not originate from kings, governments, or legislatures, but are inherent rights bestowed by the creator which governments are established to
protect rather than grant. And whereas the American Revolution was inspired by a desire for self-government, individual liberty, representative government, and freedom from arbitrary exercises of power. And whereas events such as the
Boston Tea Party demonstrated the determination of ordinary citizens to defend the principle that government must remain accountable to the people it serves. And whereas generations of Americans have preserved and expanded
the blessings of liberty through civic engagement, constitutional government, innovation, entrepreneurship, military service, volunteerism, and a steadfast commitment to equal justice under the law. And whereas the city of
Cape Canaveral recognizes that the freedoms enjoyed today were secured through the courage, sacrifice, and perseverance of those who came before us and must be faithfully preserved for future generations. Now therefore, I,
Wes Morrison, mayor of the city of Cape Canaveral, Florida, on behalf of the city council, and the citizens of Cape Canaveral, do hereby proclaim 2026 as the year of American liberty and the 250th anniversary of American
independence and encourage all citizens to reflect upon the enduring principles that inspired the Declaration of Independence, liberty, and self-government, personal responsibility, equal justice under the law, and government by the consent of
the govern. Be it further pro proclaimed that as we commemorate 250 years of American independence, we honor the generations who secured and defended our freedoms, celebrate the remarkable achievements of a free people, and
recommmit ourselves to preserving the blessings of liberty for the next 250 years signed and sealed this 16th day of June, 2026. Thank you. Council, if you'd like to come forward.
Yeah. >> 3 2 1 2 3 2 1 And again congratulations as the daughters of the Cape Canaveral
chapter of the National Society of Daughters in the American Revolution. We are honored and to accept this proclamation um for the 250th anniversary of our country. Um it this
is a um our pillars in the D are patriotism um sorry uh veterans and history and um this definitely handles all of this and we're
very grateful to acknowledge since our family members served in the revolution that's why we are in the daughters um that this is a wonderful uh opportunity for us and we thank you very much for this privilege.
>> You thank you. >> What an honor to to time it out at the 250 years. An incredible >> Yes. opportunity to be amongst all of you who were here since the beginning. So, thank you. >> At this time,
we are at the public participation portion of the meeting, item number six. I do have one card here. If anyone does intend to speak again, we ask that you please fill out a card. Seeing no others, I will call the one. Dr. Shannon Roberts.
Shannon Roberts, 703 Salon Shores Drive here in the city. Um, thank you so much for your service. I want to start out with that, but I did want to mention something that has become particularly prevalent on North Atlantic and to bring it to your attention and the sheriff's
precinct as well. Um the prevalence of electric vehices in particular has been very harrowing I think for anybody that's driving down North Atlantic. Uh what's happening is the bikers are just crossing over at will you know not even
stopping for stop the stop signs and it's very very dangerous. Even on my trip here there were two that went right across North Atlantic to get to the major intersection of Central and North Atlantic you know because that's what they were looking at. But the cars that
are trying to figure out their direction, it's very very harrowing. Um so I just wanted to bring that to the attention. I as I recall um our commander was going to look into what Cocoa Beach is doing about electric bikes and I'm just mentioning that is potentially something that's already
been followed up on is maybe some ordinances or some kind of provisions that enable us to enforce safety. Um but it's really a major issue. I know I'm just one driver, but there were five over the weekend at one time that were
going christening and crossing North Atlantic and then tonight, you know, the two um riders. So, I don't think there's anything that's governing their behavior and it's hard for the sheriff's precinct to enforce it um given their limited staffing, but I don't know. The only
thing I can think of is an ordinance that might be have some teeth that would help govern the behaviors of those that are on electric bikes for safety purposes. And I would like I know that uh our city manager has got some wonderful agenda items on his uh
management matters and I just wanted to applaud him for having I'm not sure what he's going to say but the employee handbook is on there and also the electric uh charging stations and I just I ask if you don't mind for me just listen to what he has to say to maybe
make some additional comments if if that's so called for. Thank you. >> Thank you council. Do we have a I don't know city manager has anything but at a minimum when we get to managers matters ebikes I think we are all familiar with the concern in the community and I don't
>> anyone opposed to our city manager having the opportunity to at least give some update on that if >> please do >> if if he's if he's able >> if not I know he will address it as soon as can so thank you Dr. Roberts. Seeing no other cards, I will assume that is it
for public participation. Before moving on, I just want to make sure that there were some written comments that wanted to be I think stated on the record or written on the record. Want to um I need to find that.
We have it if anyone has it >> from Ann Migleprank. >> Thank you. Acknowledging on the record that there are at least three uh resident emails here
uh that were requested to be submitted on public record and uh the first one is from resident Ann Mitchell Brink which came in on June 15th. The second is from Eric Holland which came in on the same
day June 15th. The third is from uh Sebastian Ortega Schuber on the same date, June 15th. Uh these are a little lengthier emails. I just want to confirm if the council all had a copy of these
and we're able >> There's also one that we got an email about this afternoon from Esther from Sean >> Shaner. Okay. Yes. Uh, and I would say a fourth one from Sean Shaner which came in
today. I have that here as well. Council, I'm more than happy to to read these emails into the record. I don't want to move past the intent of the council. Some are short, some are a little longer. Uh, what do we want to do here? >> Uh, Mr. Mayor, I think they deserve to
be read. >> Okay. Thank you. And I will say if that's four, a fifth which I did not acknowledge at the last workshop um came in from Mr. Patrick Campbell regarding beach parking. I know we're going to get
to that item and I think at that time I'm happy to discuss anything that this council desires with that. The other one that we received during that workshop uh was physically present at the meeting and referenced it during public participation. So, council, is anyone
opposed to me uh going through these public statements that were submitted in writing? Seeing none, I will take uh them as I have them. The first one here is
this is all in regards to item 9.4. This is from Ann Mitchell which says, "I am writing to include what I hope are thoughtful considerations as the city works through the questions that exist around a potential paid parking program. First,
let me acknowledge that although totally free parking would be wonderful, I understand the reasons and support a parking program if it will be beneficial to the finances of the city. You seem to be aware of most of the obvious potential expenses to the city for the
system. you are looking at. But one thing I do did not hear specifically mention was the cost of data storage that will be needed either onsite or remotely for maintaining necessary parking records. One of the workshop discussions was
about the possibility of dynamic pricing particularly related to the launch traffic. Sounds good on the surface, but it brings to mind the following questions. Would it be for only certain launches or all launches? How many administrative time How much
administrative time would have to be redirected to consistent management of when these launches were occurring? Especially since they tend to get delayed and rescheduled. If the pricing changes are not a pro applied consistently, I see that it's a
potential area for problems complaints related as it seems that illegal street parking is a problem during these special events. I would support the ability to have patrol having a device so tickets could be easily issued. Also
during the workshop, the vendor mentioned that it was possible to have things such as coupons for local businesses or information included when visitors are paying for parking. As we only have one seasonal lifeguard station, this option would be a good
opportunity to inform visitors of weather related events and RIP current warnings when they exist. One additional item that everyone seems to be in agreement on is that no full-time resident should have to pay to park. The
vendor indicated that there is a charge parenthesis $3.50 question mark for each registration processed. The idea of the city paying that fee for residents was floated. The question in mind was would the city pay for all registrations for
each address? I'm thinking of homes where they may be multiple vehicles, excuse me, adults, adult children, golf carts. It may be worth considering a limitation on the number of registrations sub subsidized by the city to maybe two
and the $3.50 fee would have to be paid by a resident for any vehicles per address over the number. This would allow you to control cost. Will it even be possible to track registrations by address? Thank you for listening. Sincerely, Ann Mitchell Brink, 134 Manny
Lane, Cape Canaveral, Florida. So, that was the first comment. And uh, city clerk, if appropriate, I assume you should put the timer on me and I'll read as expeditiously as possible, but I think it would it would be a bit unfair if a seven minute email
came in here u at my reading pace. But I'll do the best I can to finish the time. Um, the next one is from Mr. Eric Holland. Uh, the comments here. Please share the members. Please share with the members of the city council that may be
voting on the issue in the future. A link was provided titled Beach Parking Ticket Sparks Federal Lawsuit against South Florida City's apps. That link was made available to all of the recipients of the email.
The third and final printed copy that I have here is from Sebastian Ortega Schuber. This email states, "Hi, Laura. Uh, this is to our deputy capital projects director. He's our He's our
vendor. Mayor, >> this is our vendor. >> Yes, it is. Yes, he is. >> Thank you. This is our vendor to our city manager with T2 Systems, the uh representative who also spoke at the the meeting and presented to us.
>> So, it's not a it's not a public comment. >> No, that's that's not a public comment. >> So, council, do we need do we need to read this? It's no mayor. It's not a public comment. >> I see him here. Hey, Mr. Ortega. Thank
you. Appreciate our city manager, I think that one is captured. And uh as stated, I think um when we get to the item and discuss it further, uh I would like to make sure that we acknowledge
the the other ones that were provided at the workshop, which is one other Mr. Patrick Campbell. And so with that, are there any other public comments that we received that need to be stated in Oh, Mr. Sean, >> thank you, Council Member Shoryak. I have that one here in front of me. That
one says, this is from Sean Shaner, 7028 Civil Court, Cape Canaveral. Hello, West City Clerk, City Manager, and Council members. This item is not on the agenda, but I would like the council's city manager, city clerk, and mayor to look into this. It has come to
my attention that my HOA has requested that the city arborist approve cutting down 15 mature oaks at Salana on the river. I've been informed that the arborist has approved the HOA request to cut down 15 mature oak trees. I have not
received any notification from my HOA board. The only reason I know about this issue is the yellow tape wrapped around the trees. I ask that you take a drive down Civilia Court and Marbella Court and think about what this approval will
do to our property values and overall community appearance. I understand that some of the trees are doing damage to the roads and parking lot, but not all 15 mature oaks are doing damage. City of Cape Canaveral is a tree city, and I am
surprised that an arborist approved removal of 15 mature oaks. The city just had a tree giveaway in April and plan to plant trees, more trees in the future. Yet, we approve cutting down 15 mature oak trees. The city of Charleston, South Carolina, and other cities throughout
the world have figured out how to not cut down trees that are hundreds of years old. Cape Canaveral has a very old oak tree near the library that we have protected and it has done damage to the sidewalk and we didn't cut it down. Please advise how the city council can
review this approval and provide additional solutions versus approval for cutting down 50 mature oak trees. Thanks for your time and support, Sean Shaner. >> Are there any other further public comments the council would like to be read into the record?
>> Mayor, perhaps a public response to that email is in order. >> For the record, our city arborist did not approve the cutting down of any trees. He was asked an opinion and he rendered an opinion in conjunction with an opinion that was offered by an arborist that was hired by that uh condo
association. Uh he cannot approve per our ordinance. It must be approved by the um building official and at this point in time and it we view this as a private property issue. the city has authority to approve a permit to cut those trees down when a permit has been
properly applied for this condo association or no representatives from this association have applied for a permit at this time. So that's the city's view on this issue. Um it's a private property issue and we've issued no permission or authorization to cut
any tree down. >> Thank you, city manager. Any further comments? Seeing none, we will go ahead and close public participation and move on to managers matters,
which is item number seven. I think just to reaffirm um the request during public comment from Dr. Roberts was to address an issue regarding ebikes. city manager if prepared. I know you're on the spot on
this one. It would be appreciated. >> Oh, we're not on the spot. We're ready to go. >> And one thing prior, if uh anyone who would like to if we want to take a two-minute recess for anyone to to leave, you're more than welcome to. I sure this meeting is thrilling, but uh
we completely understand if you we'd be honored if you stayed, but if at this time you are free to go at any point. So, we thank you for >> for joining us this evening. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Thank you, city manager. Absolutely.
Thank you. Yes, Mr. City Manager. >> Yes, Mayor. Thank you. And so, regarding uh the electronic electric bicycles operating on our streets, uh in conversation with our sheriff's office and Commander Neil is here. Um, we
learned that there was a a specific House and Senate bill pending in the legislation that would make certain um provisions for operating electric bikes legal or illegal. So, the state is has regulated this issue. And so, rather than enact an ordinance, uh, we thought
we would wait to see what that law looks like and how it could be enforced. Uh the the bills did pass and the law goes into effect July 1st and Commander Neil is here to talk about the provisions of that statute and how the sheriff's office will go about enforcing it. >> Thank you, Commander Neil. Thank you.
>> Good evening. How are you? >> Good. Thank you. >> A good city manager says I'm not on the spot alone. So, no. uh to to his uh uh point, we have had many discussions about this subject and we were waiting for this bill to be signed uh uh 382. Uh
and what it does, it adds some uh some into law that he will sign on or it'll go effective, excuse me, July 1st. Uh one of the things it does is uh limits their speed to 10 miles an hour on sidewalks within 50 ft of any person because that's one of the biggest complaints when they're wisdom by people
on sidewalks. So, that'll address that issue. The second part of that is they'll have to signal whether through a bell or horn or some type of noise or or or audible device that they're about to overtake a person walking on the sidewalk. The other thing it does, it establishes a task force and law
enforcement will be responsible for reporting uh injuries, crashes, things like that. So, this is the first step. I think you can see this will probably progress as we learn more and we start reporting it. I think that's one of the problems is it's a hodgepodge of reporting, right? But now this law will
require law enforcement to start reporting those stats so the state can take a better look at what's going on. Uh and there are other laws already on the books, ma'am, as you well know. And we do enforce and I can tell you come July, we will be uh running an operation
to be a soft start. It's kind of the honeymoon phase, the warning phase. We never want to come out heavy-handed. We want to start educating first and then start enforcing. So yeah, there definitely things in the works. >> Thank you, Commander Neil. >> Okay. Thank you.
to um and if it was stated I apologize but is there anything that we I understand the statute is coming but from an ordinance the city's control is there anything that we could do that my understanding is we we were limited
by what we could do due due to the state law and >> well it depends on how the law is written. Uh this is one of those issues where it's a statewide issue. And so uh the legislature decided to attack to tackle this at the state level as opposed to this for lack of better
hodgepodge of ordinances that are going to be going all over the you know the state. uh you can drive through one city, you know, and and there the ordinances and then you come to another city and but there's a different ordinances and and so to be more effective in enforcing making it a state
law. uh it would be more effective. And I think the best guidance I would offer is let's let the sheriff's office enforce state law and and see if it satisfies all of those conditions that we would like to see met. And if and then, you know, we can, you know, follow
back up with the sheriff's office and listen to the community and if there are other provisions that maybe um need to be addressed, we can certainly speak to it from an ordinance standpoint. or it might behoove us just to go back to our legislators and say, "Hey, you did a great job on this statute, but we're
seeing this. Maybe we can go back and amend it uh amend the statute." And and we've seen that happen with other laws. So, >> thank you, council. Any further comments on that? >> I'm just glad to know that they're doing something about it because it's very,
very dangerous. It really is, especially at our intersections in the city where the intersection of Buchanan and Orange where they fly through and they they don't even stop and it's a four-way stop. So, I'm hoping that the legislature will address that as well. Traffic adhering to traffic laws. We'll
see if they do or not. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Question. >> Yes, Mayor Perim. Um, city manager, do you know if, and maybe this is for Commander Neil, but are we locally as
BCSO keeping up with ebike incidences as far as accidents in Cape Canaveral, um, tickets and that kind of thing. >> So, we have ran an operation before and posted pretty good numbers on ebike
enforcement. Same thing we started out kind of warning phase and then we started issuing citations. So we have done that in the past year. So it is ongoing. Um I think the intent of what the law is is certainly for us to better do a better job of tracking those incidents of you know injuries and
accidents and such. So like anything we can always do a better job on that side. And that's I think you're going to see that law graduate to the city manager's point. I think this is just the beginning. Well, and my curiosity is um for us as legislators
working with you all as our partner, if we don't know the events occurred, we don't know if because we can wait for state law and I understand that, but it's still ultimately our responsibility to make sure our safety in our community
is handled properly. So, we may have things that they put in at a state law level and we need to add one thing or something like that, but if we aren't getting a report of incidences with ebikes and scooters or anything else, we
may not know those. So, is there do you do you all share that information? >> If there's a serious incident, uh, you know, a lot of times I'll text the city manager if it's something severe. If it's a minor incident, maybe not. You know, I I you know, certainly, you know,
we can look at how we're capturing that data overall. I'll just have to look at that and see how our analysts are capturing that data. >> Okay. And thank you, Commander Neil. You have to understand, I was in tech and I love reports, right? >> You're like, no, we don't like them, but
it's a lot of work for people >> that are not that it's capturing that data. But I think as we look at the new law going into place, it would be good for us to keep up with it locally to be able to tell what's going on and is it really are we just seeing it every now
and then or do we have a real problem? >> Yeah. And I want just want to clarify one other thing. You know, bikes that are on our roadway do have to adhere to traffic laws like a vehicle. So those are enforceable when they run stop signs and things of that nature and it is enforced. So I think a lot of people
misunderstand that. So those laws are already on the book that applies to bicycles or ebikes. >> Okay. >> And just to add to that, if we're talking about incidents like crashes, crash reports are filled out. They become a state record and that data is collected annually and and it can be
acquired at any time once it's available. Um uniform traffic citations uh also being issued in that regard. It wouldn't surprise me if they have to amend the uniform traffic citation to include an eBox uh or ebike box if they haven't already. Same thing for crash
reports. We classify the vehicle and as it's scanned in, it automatically records it in that regard. So, the data now that this state law is out here and crash reports are done, the data will be out there for us. Um, now if you're looking to collect data on any other type of incident involving an ebike that
didn't necessarily rise to the level of a crash report, uh, then we can certainly, uh, I would like to know what maybe you're maybe at another time find out what you're interested in or now and we can work with the sheriff's office. >> And I was thinking ticketed instances, >> okay? >> Like total number of ticketed incidents.
And the thing is, I know you guys are enforcing. I see that. But just this past week, I rode all the way down Ridgewood 5 miles an hour while while someone on a bike in the traffic lane, not on the bike path rode, and did not
stop at one stop sign. >> So, I ended up, and that's okay, but he's back in traffic up behind me, you know. Um, so we all see it and you can't be everywhere at the same time. >> That is absolutely correct. And I think
you know in the city the volume of bicycles and >> so you know being able to identify is how big of a problem it is or if these are oneoff issues where you can't control human behavior and they're going to do what they're going to do. You know
there's those cases. >> You know we're talking about ebikes here but it's it's bicycles as well. you know, they're they're blowing through the stop signs as well. So, >> yeah. And I was just >> it's a dual issue. >> Yeah, I was using that as an example, and I know y'all can't be everywhere at once. Well, that's what my question was. Thank you.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. Any further comments or questions? >> Uh yes, Mr. Mayor. Um Senate Bill 382 uh does allow shared path regulations for the local municipalities. So we
could if it rose to that we could restrict the types of vehicles, bikes and wear. So we could and I I appreciate saying that something I did want to say earlier is we can provide the Senate bill to the council for their own review and um if not whatever
statutes also um are referenced in that so you can see for yourself what what's going to take place effective July 1st. >> Thank you. My comments would be what we heard today is one of many stories uh as Dr. Roberts said would the the Senate
bill the statute if passed and implemented would that address that issue? You know, if we were to run it through and if so, that's that's a good thing. And with that, I think we're good. Thank you for taking that
up. >> The clerk has put it on the screen if you wanted to have any further dialogue or we can just make sure you get it for review later. It's your discretion. >> Thank you. I think we'll have take time and monitor what's going on at the state level and
>> uh be aware of what we experience every week in our city. Uh we'll have that resource available and thank you Dr. Roberts, city manager. The floor is yours. >> Thank you, Mayor. And thank you,
council. Uh for the first item under manager matters is a facility update. Uh as you know, we've been revising our bid package, our bid documents uh when we put something out uh to invite someone to do some work in our city. And so our
bid package, our final documents are completed. And now that we've done that revision, we're going to put the Nancy Hansen wreck complex out to bid. And if I've not said this before, all all projects like this that are put out to bid are are under Tim Carile, our
capital improvements uh director. So it doesn't matter what department is needing that project. He oversees all projects like that. Uh San Piper Park, if you haven't heard the good news, uh we did get it up and running and it's open uh for the public to use. Um, as we
talked about in the past, we had some some issues with the equipment. Uh, measurement of the placement of that equipment with the vendor and all that equipment was delivered on time in the very beginning and was ready to install. What happened was the, you know, the fact that the measurements were not
completely accurate and so that held things up. Uh, but everything is complete and ready to go except for uh, we have a um swing arch uh, that uh, we're waiting to replace. And I, you know, the ship date for that item is August. So, but that apparatus I believe
is still o is open anyway. I'm not sure. Molly can attest to that. Um, if she if she's here, is that open? Yes, it is open and we're waiting on that replacement part. Uh, Manatee Sanctuary Park Lighting. Uh, that project, if it
didn't start today, will begin this week. So, we'll get that moving. Item two, city personnel update. We have uh several vacant positions that uh we are uh entertaining remaining vacant or filling at this point. Records management tech, we have decided to fill
that. Uh we have a full-time and a part-time recckle leader position that are open. Uh we are uh scanning applications for the full-time recleer position and currently the part-time recck leader position is being held as open. and we want to get into some employee
recognition and we have three uh things to cover under that item and I'll turn the floor over to you mayor to take on the first one. >> Yes, thank you very much. This is something uh I'm excited to do. Our city manager brought it to the attention
under managers matters and I know the council will support and recognizing employees. We've over the past few meetings recognized new employees, but uh those that have served us for some time. Annually, we would do like a city managers hosted, you know, Christmas
time of the year employee recognition. We'd recognize employees 5, 10, 15, 20 years. And tonight is a special one because we're going to start or at least attempt with good intentions start recognizing employees uh who served our
city. And uh tonight is Mr. Tim Davis who is celebrating 30y year employment anniversary. 30 years of dedicated service reaching his work anniversary on
June 10th. Mr. Tim Davis served since 1996 as the city arborist and lead infrastructure maintenance specialist. Professional leadership. He holds credentials as an international society
of arbiculture ISA certified arborist and is an active member of the urban and community forestry society. Tree city USA legacy. His passion for arbiculture has been vital in retaining Cape
Canaveral's prestigious tree city designation for the past 30 years. Tree planting and maintenance. He has planted thousands of trees citywide and cares for a massive urban canopy which includes over 1,200 palm trees in parks,
medians, and the right ofway, public education and outreach. Mr. Tim Davis leads annual Arbor Day celebrations and regularly educates elementary students and the public on the importance of our urban canopy, public safety and
compliance. Tim maintains safe roadway height clearances for Cape Canaveral's fire and rescue trucks and conducts private property inspections to ensure specimen trees are protected. Broad infrastructure impact Mr. Davis is vital
to daily city operations, executing storm drain maintenance, sidewalk repairs, pothole filling, beach cleanups, and dune crossover repairs and staff safety training. Tim shares his expertise with colleagues by running the
annual chainsaw safety class for the city staff. Tim, are you with us here today? I'm looking out. >> Tim, if you want to come forward and our city manager, come down and join. We'd like to present you with this certificate. All right. It's a little awkward now.
Just hearing that one comment from the Salana Rivers, you know, residents. We do take being a tree city very serious. You know, you know that as well. You know, I've gone through a lot of council members, a few mayors, and a few city managers, but um we've always had strong
for our urban environment and um when I got here, you know, 30 years ago, the vision statement was to have street uh you know, treeline streets and um that's where I came in. So, um we do take that very seriously. It kind of upset me a
little bit. I ain't going to lie. Uh, but them people are mitigating stuff too if there ever comes to removal. So, they're not just removing stuff. It's just a wrong species in a wrong space. Everybody loves oak trees, but you can't put them in in little areas. So, you you got to pick the right tree for the right
spot, you know, and uh it's been a pleasure. It really has. I don't know where the times went, but um like you say, if you find a place you like to work, and I've had always good employees. I've got a good director, June and Cheryl. the only two that's been here longer than me and uh awesome
co-workers and it's just been a joy for me and uh I hope I can hang out for a while longer but um thank you. >> Thank you. I think it's I would be the fourth mayor, but we that includes the famous
Rocky Randos who served multiple terms and served this city for a long time. And u Thank you, Tim. Impressive. tree removal does get political because once their specimen it comes to this council
and I've always appreciated that your scientific approach to it, the evaluation, the whole process kind of allows us as a council to make a well-informed decisions. We've been through a few of them. They've been controversial, but without you, I think
uh we would have been in a tough spot. So, thank you for all that you've done and continue to do for our city. and I live on Ridgewood. Every time you come by in the truck drive in, I wave and you're you you wave back and you're not just me, the community, the people love
you here and and I know this council does, too. So, thank you very much. >> With that, I think uh back to you, city manager. >> Thank you, mayor. And I think it goes without saying if you hear everything that heard everything that you said
about Tim's career and you look at his suntan, you know he spends the majority of his time outdoors and it's arduous work and he's been doing that for 30 years. So good job. So thank you. Um the next item u we'd like to recognize um
from time to time we receive things from our public safety professionals and in this case uh we received a letter um from our sheriff's office authored by uh Judge Justice and I'm not making that name up. He is a circuit judge six
judicial circuit of Florida and um he wrote a letter to um the Bvard County Sheriff's Office commending one Corporal Andrew Marunis. He went on a ride along with Corpal Marunis and um I don't know if Commander Davis, would you like to add to it? The letter is in the record.
It's fairly lengthy, but um you know, I could tell you for a circuit judge to go on a ride along with a local law enforcement officer, that's a pretty big deal. And uh that to see the the the um job from the level of the person doing it, it just creates a huge respect for
the job at the um at the bench or on the bench depending. And um so we really appreciate you sending that letter to us, Commander Neil. And thank you. It's in the record and it will be in the matter of the minutes u for any the public who would like to see it and it's
also on the screen. So thank you. And then finally, we received some employee recognition from uh department director uh Mike Schaefer, who's in charge of IT. And this one we'll read very uh quickly. Recently, the city of Cape Canaveral personnel installed a
security camera system at the city of Cape Canaveral's public works facility and are worthy of recognition. Uh, in the words of director Mike Schaefer, the team successfully installed a security camera system at the public works facility to support compliance with requirements for securing the city's
mission critical infrastructure. The project involved trenching more than 2,000 ft while carefully avoiding disruption to existing utilities and infrastructure. They installed 2100 ft of conduit and pulled over 3,000 ft of Cat 6 cable while deploying 28 security
cameras and a dedicated server to aid in protecting the city's most valuable resource. By strategically procuring a high performance system at a competitive price and leveraging a highly skilled contractor for system design assistance, the IT team achieved an estimated cost
savings of approximately $39,000 compared to the original project cost estimate. And so we are grateful for the following personnel. of course, our director, Mike Schaefer, Duncan Grant, IT manager, Jessica Erdman, um, Pedro, uh, from Digital Guards, Pierro from
Digital Guards, sorry, uh, Duncan Grant, Josh Prior, again, Josh Prior, Mike Johnson, Gary Smith, Chris Whittington, Shannon Light, Nick Setliff, Donnie Robuck, and Milton Zaldunado. I never knew how to pronounce his name, so I apologize to Milton for butchering
that. And um, and I don't know what a Cat 6 cable is, but it sounds pretty big. And uh we appreciate the efforts of that team who did all that. Mayor and council, thank you for letting me give me the opportunity to recognize our employees. And I get the next item, managers
matters. I've lost my place in my book. Thank you. >> Take your time. >> Okay. Next item is grants update. Um we have not acquired any new grants as of yet. However, we are researching grants that can be applied toward research
research that could help our city from its tourism base uh understand how we can research some data to understand the impacts of tourism on our community so we can appropriately advise council on measures that we should take to um you
know manage the um you know that tourism impact. And so hopefully we can acquire some type of grant money to start researching data in that regard. Uh item number four is the employee handbook. As you know, two meetings ago, we brought
it before the council. The council did weigh in with changes as requested. Those changes were forwarded on to our consultant who is um going to uh incorporate uh some of those changes into the manual. Our goal is to get that manual back to the council before the
next council meeting so you can review the changes and then hopefully render a vote so we can adopt the employee handbook. Uh it just a reminder to the council but mostly the public as the council knows the purpose of the employee handbook is to deal with
employee issues, human resource stuff and then there are certain policies there. Um it is a handbook for employees. It is not a city department manual where we have policies and procedures that deal with other specific things. So, we are working on drafting
those department policies as we speak. And uh but again, we'll get that handbook back to the council for your review and adoption hopefully at the next council meeting. And the next two items, I'm going to turn the mic over to Zach IILs. Items number five, hurricane season
preparedness update and six electric vehicle stations. >> Thank you, Keith. Good evening, council. We thought it would be a good idea to quickly review uh our status for the hurricane season. I don't think we've ever done that at a council meeting before, and we thought it would be a good idea to get it out in the public to
showcase what we've done uh for your sake and for the public's. Uh there was an a piece of material submitted in the agenda packet called the hurricane prep checklist uh that you could have reviewed. I will briefly go through it. I'm not going to talk about everything on here, but if you have a question
about anything, please let me know. I just want to tick off some of the bigger items. So, the National Hurricane Center is predicting a below average hurricane season, but we don't want to ever take that uh for granted because all it takes is one. You never know. Good example of
that was Hurricane Andrew in 1992. Um, in terms of our preparedness, if you'll indulge me, our tropical cyclone preparedness and recovery plan has been updated. It is this document right here. It can be accessible to council if you wish. Uh, but it is not a
public document for security reasons. It has been distributed to our local uh partners uh including Port Canaveral, Canaveral Fire Rescue, Bar County Sheriff's Office, and the City of Cocoa Beach's Fire Department. Um, our uh, hurricane FAQ for citizens has been updated and I encourage all citizens to
take one. Uh, a version of this was emailed to you a few weeks ago and there are printed copies in uh, the lobby as we speak. Um, all remote sensor sites are up and running. We have nine now that are operational, most of which are publicly accessible in terms of
reviewing their data. Lightning suppression systems have been checked and are operational. Um, we have had our staff hurricane training in place a few weeks ago that involved all staff members in Canaveral Fire Rescue and the sheriff's office. All facility generators fixed and mobile have been
inspected. Gas and electric. Starlink is operational on the roof of this building for backup uh emergency internet if needed. Flood barriers and chainsaws and the Tiger Dam system has been checked. Uh, supply kits are up to date and ready to go. Um, our hurricane expo has been
completed. That saw about a hundred individuals attend, which was fantastic. It was more than last year with great partners that showed up. Uh, the hurricane web page on the city's website has been updated, as well as all importantly all items for, uh, complying with Senate Bill 180 has been updated.
>> Um, we have attended Port Canaveral's hurricane season stakeholder engagement meeting, uh, to discuss what they do for when hurricanes come. The city's municipal fleet has been taken care of in terms of determining ride out areas off island and on island which is good.
Um we have our seasonal sandbag supply in place of about 6,000 bags with 15 to 20 cubic yards of fill material if needed. Um, our debris site authorization letter has been acquired from the Florida Department of of uh Environmental Protection, which is a
requirement from Senate Bill 180 to have a yard waste disposal site in the city if necessary. The Center Street Pump Station has been checked and is good, as well as all mobile storm water pumps. And finally, um, we have attended BVAR County's annual, uh, hurricane training
and exercise in collaboration with other municipalities and appropriate entities in the county, and we have confirmed the readiness of the city's mobile teleahalth trailer in conjunction with the southeastern telealth resource center to serve as a backup medical site if necessary. So, with that, we are good
to go. Knock on wood. >> Yes. >> Any questions? council. No, >> I just wanted to I appreciate the invitation to attend. I thought Zach, you and your team did a wonderful job. I
think uh staff I didn't see anyone fall asleep in the presentation, so you were very uh uh energetic with it and I appreciate everything you did for it. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'd like to mention that uh ever since
we've uh uh ever since we have the warnings about the tsunami waves, that's all I've been reading about lately is tsunamis. I mean, do you have like an inside knowledge that we might get a tsunami wave? >> Just preparedness. That's all it is.
>> My goodness. >> It was ironic that there was an earthquake not long after we became certified >> in off the coast of Cuba, right? Yes. Yes. >> Maybe the universe is saying we did the right thing. I I have to wonder. Thank you. >> Thank you. If there are no further questions, I'll move on to the next item.
>> Question. >> Yeah, I had a question. Got one more mayor for 10. >> I'm trying to be patient. Everybody jumps. >> Yes, please. >> So, I'm just I'm being patient. Um, so, Zach, on the list that you have, we have the handheld radio test. That's all in
yellow. Last year prior to our current city manager and it might have been even year before that, we had discussed the fact that I mean sta we had a huge number of staff that had handheld radios during hurricanes and none of the
council out here had them at all and very at that time there were very few staff that lived out here. So we would be potentially going through a storm with little to no guarantee of a communic communication. So I know that
you all had kind of counted and taken a look at these and I don't know mayor did you ever get a handheld? >> I did. I don't remember on if it was the last hurricane but when we raised that question I was provided a radio.
>> Okay. on that >> and I know that we had discussed mayor pro Tim Kellum getting one at that time. Um but is it just one person and the reason I'm saying is because of you know how I am with the the emergency management training that I took and
you've been through all of it more than I have. Um, and there's a level of secession that it should be covered for the council in case of an emergency because if I get knocked out cuz I'm sitting beachside and it's hitting over
there and those of us on that side get knocked out, we got to have the legislative piece of it if you all needed something approved. So, um, city manager and Zach, I would request that we look at what that process looks like
for this council as far as who has radios because right now, from what I understand, you have one. Does anyone else have a handheld right now? >> Not on council. I know my comments would be if I mean the whole council could have just a radio just from uh just to
receive information and the radios would only be used in the event normal communication channels were down. My radio never made a sound. Well, >> that's a good thing. >> Yeah, that's a good thing. >> Which is Yes. But but yes, thank you for
bringing that up. And the reason I'm saying this is not because I'm worried about Zach's ability to be uh able to handle things because Zach, you're on it. Um I'm going to be over with Zach under his desk at the Emergency Operations Center of Bvard County. So
I'll be fine. No, I'm teasing. Uh but you know, we we need to make sure that people out here that are going through it that may not have evacuated are kept up to speed or can get to you if we need
you because that's the the thing that becomes an issue. I remember storms that we've had here um that weren't even big storms for us. Matthew, for example, it knocked all the satellite dishes wonky.
We had no internet. Uh, a lot of the cell towers needed to be adjusted before they could get cell signals up. So, that's that's why I was doing that. Landbased antennas communicate on different waves and just so I'm just
looking at that because I knew we'd discussed that before. So, that was my only comment. That was my only comment. >> Yeah, we could certainly look into that. I will tell you that um we will need to do a radio count to just see how many are left over. Obviously, we've had some staffing changes. So, we need to reallocate some radios anyways and we
need to still conduct the radio test and the reason we haven't done that is because of the recent staffing changes and whatnot, but we will get that done. My point that I was going to make was um we have access to uh getting additional radios if needed post storm through something like resource requests with
the emergency operations center in Rockidge or through uh say insurance providers that can provide resources like through entities like blue sky uh as well as additional things like Starlink units for internet access. So, we do have means of getting that communications out if all else fails.
>> And that's great except for that during a storm, if the mobile or Wi-Fi goes down, we can't get to you to let you know what's happening out here. And that's my point. Um, when I took my class, it was with a FEMA instructor for
emergency management and there was a town in Alabama that had severe weather. three of their city council people, they couldn't find them >> and they needed something voted on to kick in the emergency operations within the emergency operations
procedure and they didn't have a quorum. So that's you know that we are part of that process and if we're over here on the island by ourselves and we can't get to you let you know hey you know we got a big problem Zach there's like a title wave that just happened you know that
kind of thing then we got a problem. So afterwards is fine and and y'all do great. But that's that's something that I was we discussed it back a couple of years ago or last year and I wanted to mention it again as the council has changed.
>> Well, we'll definitely talk about it. So we have a tabletop exercise scheduled on Thursday. um pretty excited for. It's the first time we're going to try one in-house with the city's emergency operations team and that's something we can definitely discuss with all departments on hand to see what we could do for instorm radio assistance if
needed. >> For sure. >> Okay, that was >> it's a great update. Thank you and all good points. >> Yeah, >> so much further along than we were in the past. So appreciate >> it all and the council does. Any other further comments on this? And maybe we
need to after the tabletop. It's when appropriate. It's better to do it before we come together and add it as a discussion item so we can talk through. >> Sure. >> When ready. >> Yeah. Once we have the appropriate inventory for the radios and whatnot and see how it divies up with the emergency operations team, we could definitely
bring it back and see what's left over and if there needs to be adjustments or additional equipment added, we can have that talk. >> Thank you. >> For sure. One thing I want to throw in just and I know Council Member Willis can confirm this. I've seen storms on on the west
side of our island where the storm came in at a different direction and it was literally waves that were going up into people's homes and stuff and he's the only council member that would see that. >> See, so that's why you know what I'm
saying? So it's just it we're in such a a unique position. Okay, now I will be I'm I'm done. >> Valid concern. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any comments on the h word? >> Don't even want to say it. Knock on wood as you said. Yes. Hopefully we have a
quiet season. City manager. >> Uh so Zach has one more item and we'll be through with managers matters. >> Zach's back. All right. Um the next item is uh a status update for the charging station upgrade project. Um some good news. We're coming going to come we're tracking to have the item come back to
you in July for review. Um and we have identified companies that I believe are in line with what you requested from the business model of a leasing style. Um so we're excited to bring that to you. Uh good five companies. We we'll definitely have suggestions which ones we think
will probably be best to go with. Um and we even discovered that the current entity that we have, Nova Charge, actually has that service which they did not have when we started. So, good research to do and we're excited to see what you think. >> Thank you for doing that. I appreciate that, Zach.
>> Yes, it'll be in a nice little chart for you. >> All good. That's all I got. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mayor. That concludes uh manager matters. >> That concludes manager matters. Yes, it
does. >> I see Dr. Roberts is out there raising your hand. Doc, would you like to a brief statement? I can speak it into the record, but our city clerk and we do need you. >> I
ask. >> Oh, okay. So, the request is you would like to come forward and speak during manager at this time. >> Yes. Okay, council. Any opposed to Dr. Roberts coming forth? Take your time.
Yes, I I see no no issue. Thank you. >> I'm probably going to just ask a fundamental question about the electric charging stations. I know from my community there's been some questions about what the city is doing in the electric charging station business. And I'm just asking the fundamental question
here. I'm also noticing for those of us that have maybe parking challenges like tonight there was there the electric charging stations are those those spaces are staying empty and then those that really need to park, you know, they're sort of reluctant to park in the
electric charging station areas. But I think personally there may be a a cultural and a practical u issue here for our city in this regard. I'm not sure, you know, that I'm not sure why we need the electric charging stations to be honest. And secondly, I think they
preclude some of our residents from parking in areas that are very critically located um just because they see, you know, the notice that it's only for electric charging stations. So, PE vehicles. So, I'm just I hope you don't mind. This is something that's very significant in my opinion for our
community to address. Is this something we want to be doing? uh since we have private charging stations available now um that others have provided in the city and is this really a government function that we'd be wanting to take over especially if it's precluding residents
from parking in normal parking spots in the past that have been available to our residents tonight was completely full and and I'm just mentioning you know because we had a presentation and those two charging station parking places were empty so I'm just using that as an
example of where I just would ask council to reconsider the need for them and the appropriateness of them in our city. >> Thank you, Dr. Roberts. Your timing is good. This issue has been raised. We are all looking at it. I know our city staff and ourselves and I don't think anyone
would disagree about the comments that you've stated. In fact, I'll go on the record and say I had to park for the first time ever in an EV spot in a panic. I was coming up. There was no spots, but we're working through it. And I think uh I think we'll be hearing
about that very soon. Council member Shoryette, >> I I was also going to say it's I agree it's a business the city should not be in. We don't run gas stations and there's a lot of businesses that we're in that we shouldn't be in, but that's when we can probably save a little bit of money out if we get out of it. And
and this is exactly why I brought the um model together of going at least going to a lease situation because right now we're paying for those. We're paying software costs, monitoring costs for the
software that monitors them and that sort of thing. And when you go to the lease model, they all they pick up the costs. They pay us a lot of times. they will pay you for lease space where they
have them installed. So now we took it from we pay them to have this to they pay us to put it on our property. And that's what Zach will be bringing to us in July. Although I appreciate your
comments, Dr. Roberts because we've looked at this for three years almost three years for me and it has to be something that we want to do and there's been changes in that market. So I'll be looking forward to what Zach has to
provide to us about what the options are if we let them put their equipment there and we get paid for them to do it. That's that's a better scenario to me. So I'll be looking forward to that. >> I agree Dr. Roberts. There has been a lot of changes in the market lately and
moving to the the leasing model would probably be in the best city's best interest because it could become a nocost endeavor or a cost positive endeavor um because they will be be able to provide revenues back to the city where we don't have to take on that cost and obviously it's the council's
prerogative to do what the council wants. So we'll just follow your direction but hopefully what you see is a different way we could go that's much better. >> Thank you. That's all I have, >> Mr. Mayor. Great. Thank you all. That concludes the manager's matters and
that is greatly appreciated. You'd have to imagine this meeting going forward without all of those hot topics, you know, being brought up or the, you know, not discussing. And so, you've been doing that since the beginning, since August, Mr. Touchberry and the team.
Thank you all. It's greatly appreciated. Okay. So, we are now at item number eight. I think uh we got which is the consent agenda item approval of minutes. I need to touch base with our city clerk's office. I think we got a revised agenda. Do we are we deferring to the next meeting on that or we're taking no
action here? Is that >> correct? >> Okay. So, there is no items on the consent agenda or uh formally uh council. Unless anyone's opposed, we're going to take no action on this and it'll show up at the next meeting.
Any opposed? Consensus. Good. Okay. Uh before going on items for action, I would like to take a brief uh recess. As soon as we're all back, we can reconvene at 7:20 p.m. So, uh try to get back as we're all back in five. Great.
Hopefully, no more than 10 minutes. We'll reconvene no later than 7:30. So, thank you. >> I got We're about to get into the meat of it. All right, >> ready to go. >> Yes.
>> Awesome. Call the meeting back to order. It is 7:34 p.m. We're in our June 16th regular city council meeting. We just finished up with managers
matters. Got through uh the consent agenda item number eight and we are now on item number nine which is items for action tonight. Nine has five items. The first one is 9.1 titled the villas
at Filillmore. It's a revised version. Just want to confirmed or confirm, excuse me, that the council's got the revised version. >> The villas at Filillmore project drainage improvements status update
addendum additional material. This time I'm going to hand it over to our city manager. >> Thank you, mayor. So, if the council recalls last council meeting, we brought this item before you for discussion and
action. And the action that was taken was to direct uh staff to get back with Allen Engineering and present them with an option um for his consideration. Uh
another a third above ground drainage uh plan that that option was presented by one of the four residents that live at the Villas of Filillmore. And so as directed staff presented the engineer
with that plan with that option and Allen Engineering produced a code compliant plan which is listed in your backup documents as option three.
So to date, the city of Cape Canaveral, per the initial directions provided by this council in August of last year, has acquired three code compliant plans to
improve a defective drainage system at the Villas of Filillmore. All code compliant plans are within the limited legal authority that this city has to affect repairs on a private drainage
system with our dollars. And I do not see any residents here. All were notified of this meeting. One um email was sent to us by one
resident and it was inord included in the backup documents um for this presentation and it's there should the council want to address any of the resident's um statements or questions. The resident is not here to do that
themselves. Um at this point, if the council um were to so direct to move on one of these three code compliant plans, option three would
require that the residents in effect sign over or deed over or agree, that might not be the legal terminology, the attorney can correct me if necessary, but make available uh for um this that drainage system or that that plan I
should say at least 2 ft of their property that spans the backyards of all properties and that property would have to be included in the city's utility easement for purposes of constructing
the option three drainage system. In order to do that, all four residents would have to agree and any if any one resident does not agree, then the city would be in a position to execute one of the other two
options and we do staff does have a recommendation on which option option to execute. So the matter before this council now is to discuss the work that has been done since the last council meeting and to direct staff
and if I can offer a direction should you go in this in this manner direct staff to engage the residents on option three and and see if they are willing to allow their property to be used to expand the city's utility easement
and if one of at least one of the or residents does not agree, then further direct the city manager to execute another option. In this case, staff would recommend option two and staff will execute that option and
put this job out to bid um as discussed in prior meetings. Thank you. Okay. City attorney, any comments or clarification from our city manager's comments?
>> Thank you. Just give me a second. All right. So we have three options to repeat back. City managers looking for direction for uh option
three which would be contingent on four of the four property owners to approve. And in that same motion, in the event that that did not occur would not need to come the benefit, we
would not need to come back. >> Correct. >> That you could init uh proceed with next option two. And is it wise to say and if that did not occur, maybe you address this option one would
be the third. Well, I would need clear direction from this council if if I were directed to approach the residents to uh get them to sign whatever document that our city attorney would draft for them to allow for the use of their property
to expand the city's uh utility easement. Then we would present them with that document, acquire their signature, and then I would proceed uh to put the project out to bid to execute option three plan. If one or more
residents does not like option three, then the fallback direction from this council to me would be to go with option two, which is the option staff recommends. The reason option two is our recommendation is option one uh is without the bamboo. Uh the residents
have expressed the desire that that be put back in. It was we started to demolish as you know uh started this project and the bamboo was removed. They would like the bamboo replaced. So option one really is not one that they would favor. And then option two uh as
stated during our last council meeting uh the guidance given to us by Allen Engineering is when this project was initially con entertained several years ago. had the air conditioning units been presented to them and had the bamboo
been part of the um drainage system plan then option two is the plan that Allen Engineering would have drafted 5 years ago. Therefore, this that appears to be the plan that um would they would have now had things happen the way that they
should have then. So, that's why our recommendation is option two. >> Thank you, council. Any initial comments, questions? Yes. C Mayor Perim. >> Okay. So, option three is the 4:1 swell
with the slope towards their patios that um they would have is that option three that they would have to approve all four of them? >> They would all have to approve that, but that's not the slope. And uh >> Okay. Well, I have the slope problem,
but I understand the option then. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Okay. And I have concerns with that option. Um because as you go back and look at the storm water plan from the original um documents, >> it's not talking about a 100redyear
storm or whatever. And we're talking about water being close to 2 feet away from the backs of their houses. So, to me, that really concerns me. It concerns me as a council member that is worried about flooding in our city. Um, and I'm
not sure that if I was one of the homeowners there that I would want to do that. Now, as we look at option one, which was the alternative design without bamboo,
um, one of their concerns in the past has been that they had the bamboo before and that gives them some privacy on a small lot where they have very little yard to work with. And so I understand them wanting the bamboo. And I feel
lucky that um bamboo can be covered in the storm water plan under that second option that gives us the ability to put that into place with bamboo using storm water resource money.
>> Yes. Um I I did read the email from uh the hearse and that made me delve into the storm water capacities in more detail
because whatever option nothing has been as it was said from that builder and developer um and the plan that they had. So, we are tasked with the hard job of taking care of this and making sure these
residents get this build correct and that or this swale correct in their backyards. And there were things even, you know, structures underground and things of that nature. So, there's been many challenges. I'll say I've been
dealing with this. I'm I will be on the council for three years in November and we've been dealing with this my entire term. So, as I started looking at this, I do I did some diving into the storm water
document that was provided in 2020 on the property itself because I want to make sure that whatever our options are that we have done our due diligence to ensure that the water can be handled
with option one or two. Um, and I definitely, if I was in their shoes, I'd want at least two because of the fact that that gives them some privacy with the bamboo. Um, understanding that, you know, that
builder didn't put the I'm not sure where the air conditioners were originally supposed to go. I don't have the blueprints um to know, but in most cases with properties like that, if there is no place on the lot, they go on the roof, which would be ridiculous to pay for at
this point with the property built out. So, we've tough choice. We've got a tough situation. And I put together this that you're seeing on the screen tonight. And um it's a comparison because in the storm water diagram it gave us pre-development
um information and postdevelopment information for the inches that it can handle with a 5year or 24-hour storm, a 10-year with a 24-hour storm or 25 year with a 24-hour storm. It gave us
pre-development maximum flow rates into the inlet and postdevelopment maximum flow rates into the inlet, total discharge into the inlet, uh predevelopment and post-development,
and peak peak stages in the swale um postdevelopment for 5-year 24-hour storm, 10year 24-hour storm, or 25-year 24-hour storm. And I think everyone knows that's listened to me on council
to this point knows that I am concerned with our flood waters. I'm concerned of making sure that we can handle them. Fillmore is the lowest point in our city and we need to make sure we can get it right. But upon researching this, you'll
see the information for approved option one for those measurements in inches approved option two as well as uh the max flow rate into the inlet um uh for option one, option two, the discharge
into the inlet with option one, option two, and the approved uh or the approved option one and option two peak stages in the swailes. And so upon investigating that with the storm water actual storm water capacity
calculations, we found that indeed option one or two will work as function from the original design. So, I'm going to ask Rich to go into
more detail with that or explain to us if and or maybe council has some questions on this diagram, but we want to make sure that we we handle the capacities as it was originally proposed to these owners in this property and we
get their property to where they can utilize their property. So, Mr. Rich Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim. Um really uh and now now
the the engineer of record designed a system to and and with a goal of meeting and I don't know how deep we want to get into pre and post and u initially
there's a quality volume that we collect under our code uh so we designed it for that That's an amount that stays on site. It percolates through the system. Then there is a peak discharge.
And when you take a a site that was um a large grass field that there's very little discharge if any. when you cover it you know with
impervious then suddenly you create the opportunity for a much greater discharge. This system was also designed to uh discharge at the same or a lesser rate than the original and and that's
how our code's written. And and the the point being we don't want to do harm to the neighbors, overwhelm our system, but we also do want to make sure that the uh you know it has to be designed such that the owners of the property aren't
overwhelmed as well, right? Um the engineer of record put all these numbers together. Um the uh I'm not sure what question do you have any questions
regarding I mean the goal of the storm water uh it's I believe in in the the bottom line if I could put it this way is maybe do no harm right you you want to build a
nice property but you don't want to h have a negative effect on your neighbor s on the community on the system. This the the calculations that Allen Engineering has provided
tell us this. It's designed to do that. >> Okay. Would you tell us, Rich, a little bit about um the flow not even needing to reach the inlet in the two options, approved one and two, because we're
looking at the um 5-year 24-hour storm plan on approved option one and two with the max flow rate into the inlet. And you see those are at zero as well as discharge into the inlet. Um which once
again those are at zero. So, does that mean during that 5-year 24-hour storm that's 5 in it will drain naturally in the back in the soil itself? >> Yes, it should. You've got a um >> I believe
>> Yeah, the the discharge pipe should be at 9.25. >> Mhm. >> And the peak stage only gets up to 9.133. So, >> okay. So we look good there on both option as far as peak stages in the soil
meaning how deep the water gets right as well as it being able to drain in a natural fashion because of the zeros going into the um the max flow rate into the inlet
or discharge into the inlet. Okay. So you and what we're com what we're looking at there is a 5year storm 24hour that's 5 in in 24 hours right okay and then you go down and look at um 25 years
in a 24h hour and you'll see that those numbers are slightly higher on the approved option one and approved option two um with 22 on the 25-year 24-hour storm and 22 for the max flow rate into
the inlet. The max flow rate um in to the inlet for both of those options. And then the discharge is uh 0.91. And you were saying the 92
9.292 is also okay in this case for the depth of the water and the swell. But that the it will overflow a little bit into the inlet at that rate. And that's a 25-year storm,
>> correct? >> With 9 and 12 in >> of rain in a 24-hour period. >> Okay. So my point is, and I know that we've gone back and forth on this, um,
you know, over four years, but as we look at the letter that, uh, requesting to look at pipes or underground storage. Um, I have concerns with underground storage. And the reason being is from what what I understand is that we have a
a couple of condo complexes in our city that installed these in the 70s and they were not maintained correctly. Is that correct? >> I I'm I'm not familiar with those specific cases, but maintenance is
critical. >> Okay. >> And it's life life of the system. >> Yeah. the complex that I that I investigated that had the underwater tanks um on private property um they're now denoted by our capital improvement
projects director who is aware of them and they're literally concrete blocks now underground and if we put something in not knowing if they will be maintained in that swell area to accommodate this flow that's going to
happen naturally for nine nes rain uh with just a little overflow into the inlet. I'm concerned because where our Filillmore residents now, I feel like they would pay and take care of any storm tanks that may be there. However,
I don't know who's going to own that 5 years from now or 10 years from now and whether they will maintain it. and a concrete block under the ground is what we're already dealing with removing and definitely does not drain. So, under the
ground storage tanks are concerned to me because I do know that there are these complexes in our city that have those tanks and if you don't maintain them right, that's what happens to them over time. So drainage to me is important for
our residents in those four town homes. So that being said, council, that's that's why I put this together. I was wanting to do some investigation into the original storm water plan. Um, I wanted to see with my own eyes from the
original storm water plan what capacities we had with the two options that are given to these to the council to move forward with as well as that. Um, as well as talking about the swale, you know, being on a slope that's more
slope gradually sloped to their homes. I don't want water in anyone's home. I've had my I've been in a house that floods. It is not fun. and you move out and all of your stuff is ruined. So for me, when we're trying to eliminate storm
problems, to me it becomes important which option. So I'm just saying in my case with what I've seen with this I'm more in line to recommend if I was recommending I would want option two with the bamboo where they have their
privacy and we're still using utilizing as well that is very close to what they had and handles the capacities that I'm seeing that option handle. >> Thank you council member Willis. Um Rich uh these these numbers were supplied by
Allen Engineering. >> Yes. The um option one >> Mhm. >> on he submitted a um set of calculations updated calculations on I believe they're dated March 9th and we have
those okay in hand. I talked to him yesterday. uh the the criteria generally are are the same. We we're holding the same or providing the same volume and the discharge elevation is the same. So I
talked to him yesterday and I I said we both agreed that we would expect largely the same results for flow. So you can see a note I put down here. The
the calculations for option one and two are actually the option one calculations. He didn't rerun them because criteria didn't change for option two. We added bamboo but we picked up volume. >> Mhm. So
>> but nothing was done on the option three. >> No. No. That was not No. >> So we have no comparison. We we don't have a float now. The volume captured the same. >> Okay. >> It it it should effectively be the same
amount of water, the same recharge and flow rate offsite. >> Okay. So, the water reaches a certain level and then starts discharging out of the out of the swale. >> What is that level? >> The Well, the level should be roughly
the same. I >> Okay. on the >> I don't he didn't run >> three >> on the option three he did not run them. >> Okay. >> So I I wouldn't >> venture to to guess what that number is without running those calcs. >> Okay. So we're presented with an option
with no supporting data. >> Right. Okay. >> Which is option three. Three. >> Yeah. which and we'll get we'll have time to get supporting data if you wanted to get on that if you choose option three because we have to get agreements legally from all four of the
the owners. >> Well, but if they if they have no data, they're not going to agree to anything >> that would I would agree with the nature of the >> So without the supporting data,
>> we're we're shooting in the dark to go with option three. Mhm. >> My my comments. Thank you both. And and well, before speaking, Council Member Shriek, Council Member King, >> I'm it makes s I have to say option two
makes sense to me because it it it makes them whole, gives them the privacy and the and the land, not landscaping, but also the ability of the bamboo to take up a lot of that water. I mean, it's to me it's a no-brainer.
I I would have liked to have had supporting data for all options. >> Yeah. >> That we were presented with. I know these numbers were given to us just a few minutes ago. >> Mhm. >> So, not all of us have seen these numbers prior. Well, today on the screen
today and and I >> I see a tab for option three >> on on the Excel. >> Well, and council member Willis, this is something >> tab option three. >> And this is something that I put
together. Okay. All right. This is I I put it together to compare option one and option two with pre-development and post-development to make sure those were in line. And the reason I did not include option three is because there's
legal aspects to it. But also, we don't have storm water calculations on that. That was an option that was thrown out there. I was looking at the available storm water calculations and and does that swell option one and two meet what the
original design was. Now, why I did that? I'm the one that did this and he and Rich helped me fill in the data. Um, I pulled this original storm water plan from BSNA. The reason I'm not delving into option three is because I don't
feel comfortable with water creeping up towards her house on a gradual slope. Now, if we want to pay, you know, more money to Allen or maybe I don't know if there'll be additional costs for storm water calculations on option three when
we have two viable options that have been presented to us that meet what they purchased when they bought their town homes. So, if we want to do that, that's fine. Um, but it's not the way that I handled this. And this was something I put
together to assist cal uh council on understanding that the two options that we have do meet the storm water requirements because I had not seen any sidebyside comparison. And it's pretty hard to guess if you
don't know if it's carrying the same amount of water. Sorry, Mayor Pro Tim and Councilman Willis. It to let you know that the water I would expect it to be up in the
roughly the same elevation, say 9.1 9.2 elevation and with the flatter grading >> Mhm. >> that elevation as we've seen is fairly close to the patios.
>> Yeah. So, So the water So the water's going to get up there and and that's um I I think initially >> I you know I the water will will be up there. Um so and I'm not advocating for any one
option over another at this point. I just want to know why we don't have all the information on something we're supposed to be picking on. Now I am curious as to what is the legal oblig the legal issue with option three then
>> question >> Mr. Mr. City attorney is there a legal >> of course there's a legal issue because it would require the expansion of the private easement the private drainage easement and the expansion of the p of the public emergency easement. Okay. So,
as Miss Hurst indicated in her email, the property owners would have to quote surrender additional land for drainage purposes. So, that's that that would require a legal instrument, >> right? >> Expanding
>> that uh drainage area. >> Okay. Well, I mean, that was purely >> and that would require the four lot owners, >> right, >> to execute. >> Mhm. because it's a private swale drainage swale system and a private easement. They are responsible
technically under existing documents to maintain it. >> Mhm. >> Collectively for the benefit of each other. >> So, >> right, >> it would require a legal instrument. >> I I understand that. If I can speak to
the calculations quickly, the the data in front of everyone again was offered to compare um options one and two are the calculations uh sufficient based on the um two 2020
storm water analysis and they and they are but we have three code compliant plans. Option three is a code compliant plan, but it is a bit different than option two and a bit different than option one in that they have a different
slope. Uh but and it's more gradual, but the water could, as as Rich said, come up um differently toward the homes as it would if it if these other plans were implemented. So, I just want to clarify that the the data in front of you is is
offered as a consideration in comparison to 2020 for two of the plans, but we have three code compliant plans for consideration. Option three requires the residents, as Anthony said, to execute that document
to sign that document. I have a question. With the with the work that's being con uh considered for Filillmore, the street itself, does that play into this decision making at all? Does that ameliorate the situation at
all? >> No, that's a separate project altogether and there will be some work done on the front of these properties as it relates to the street project, but this is the rear of these homes and it is a separate drainage uh area. >> Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. I think option three requires all four property owners. But ignoring that, it encroaches on the private property. Right.
I mean, that's no one's debating that. That's clear. That's what our city staff presented as our city attorney, the legal side. Option two, which was my issue last time,
the pressure was put on that a 4:1 slope had to be met. This option two is not a 4:1 slope, right? And so my concern with option two remains
it today with the elephant in the room is that the original contractor had created what we believe is defects. the city is trying to remedy those and
the direction given by council is that we can hopefully recoup those dollars. And so if we move the goalpost, for lack of better words, and say, well, we did a 3 to one, I think that weakens our case
very much when we go to pursue any remedy from the contractor. And so neither option to me would be um ideal.
Which leads me to my question. Is there a way? because I know the direction given by council was really off of residents drawing up something but uh and I'd have to go back to the meeting and listen and and and go hear it but I
I think I did my best to communicate that yes this uh uh proposed design from residents not engineers would be pursued or if there is a better option and I guess I can further define what better
option would be is that it would not encroach to address Mayor Pro Tim and I think all of our concerns. It's not one against we're all working together through this. We don't want to encroach on the property if we don't have to. We didn't ask we didn't give the contractor
the ability to do that and then to not lower the threshold from a 4:1 to 3:1 which we did not allow the contractor to do. So before we pursue options two or three is it has Allen engineering or any
engineering firm if Allen said that that that it's not possible I would think a second or internal engineer and thank you so much for the work you're doing with this is it possible to stay within the easement and meet a 4:1 slope or
at minimum utilize our city engineers approval at a 3:1 on slope and not encroach on the 15t. Has that been explored or looked into by our Allen engineering?
>> If I understand, option two actually does that. It it stays within the 15t easement. It provides the bamboo um barrier shading
and it is a 3 to one slope on the back side. >> You're right. >> The reason it's a 3:1 slope is to make room for the bamboo. >> The bamboo we needed space along the back of the property line. So, and and
adding that those two feet and and what we're doing is or I shouldn't say what we're doing, what the engineer of record is doing is providing code compliant volume for as we discuss the water
quality and the water quantity to make sure it complies with code. The 3:1 I I have said I agree that it's acceptable in this case. Uh, it's a relatively shallow. It is a a
shallow pond. If it were um I believe I would I would have think twice if it were a deeper pond. It's relatively shallow. Um, but I the three
to one I've been behind I I think since day one when we wanted to return the um bamboo to the design. So option two, if I understand you correctly, does meet
that. >> And I think you did because I didn't I think state it the way I should have and intended is yes. Uh but is a 4:1 I think we asked this last a
4:1 is not possible without encroaching has that has Allen Engineering explored that problem that challenge >> you can't do a 4:1 and provide the
required volume without leaving the 15t easement correct it it would be some distance into the yard into the easement rather out of the easement into the private property. So >> yes, Mayor Bertam Jackson, thank you.
>> Um, sure. >> So I have a question for our city attorney. So if we looked at option three and the 4 to one and it slopes more into their yard and ends up that a flood occurs up
into their property because this is the option we chose. What legal liability does the city have in that case? >> I think we would have to address that legal liability in the legal instrument. I mean, that's a plan that's been
proposed by the lot owner. It obviously uh presents, as the city engineer said, additional risk to the lot owner. So, if the lot owners want to go in that direction, I think they need to assume the risk, not the city. So would that require that if we chose
that option because the lot owners want that that there's an agreement drawn up a hold harmless or something like that for the city. >> That would be my recommendation. >> Okay. Thank you. That was my only question. >> Yes.
>> Now option option two with the bamboo. Now the bamboo is considered part of the uh water mitigation issue. Correct. It's not just putting a screening up. This is
part of the the plan to remove water. >> Yeah. >> Part of the drainage system. Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. That's my question. Thank you. Sure. And a more broad ask is was that the the
resident's plan proposed the option that encroached the lease. There are no other options that would overcome the resident's concerns. My major concern with option two, while I understand it doesn't encroach, is that
it's very different than the expectation we put on the contractors. And and I don't I don't understand how that puts the city in a good position. >> If if I may address that, mayor, we did talk about this last time. >> Yes. >> And if that expectation and I just want
to clarify, if that expectation was based on the original plans >> that did not include the air conditioner units >> or the bamboo being part of the drainage system, which is allowed by our ordinance, then those were, for lack of
better, false expectations. We got the uh placement of those AC units which they are where they were always supposed to be to your point Mayor Protown. Thank you. >> Um once that data was incorporated in the
calculations i.e. the placement of the AC units and the bamboo. Then the correct slope calculations were revealed to us and they were not 4:1. That may have been the expectation based on the plans that were drawn without the
AC units. But it all goes back to had that information been available at that time and calculated at that time then option two is the plans that they would have had and their expectations would be the 3:1 not the 4:1 and I think that's
the position of the city but the attorney is can advise on that. >> Thank you. >> City attorney any comments on that? I think the manager addressed the uh impact that the air conditioning units
had on the original location of the swale on the sideyards. We've mentioned underground I think and and I I'd spoke, you know, the emails come a lot of emails come in and I think
that um the hearse and I that's the hearse. There's four property owners. I would assume that it's reasonable to say that the property owners would appreciate less. You know, 3:1 is more
steep than a 4:1, right? And so that's one of the issues. But so so being able to stay within the 15 ft and keep a 4 one dimension shifts can be possible
that that that I think is a win. But the the owners presented I wouldn't I I guess underground has been used as terminology using tanks that require maintenance but what they sent over was
a stone and pipe which the maintenance requirements with the weed barrier or the fabric right my understanding is actually less less than
like a traditional tank a where you're burying a a a container is is the cost of that I guess is is that something that we are just ruling out if
that could stay within the 15 ft keep the water away from the house are we saying no to that because of the maintenance requirements or cuz I I just want to make sure when we say underground there's two types we get like I did under little leak fields we
buried big uh infiltrated pipes and or plastic excavation or um I don't have the right terminology but underground plastic containers or the stone and pipe
which would satisfy or exceed a 4:1 or make the 4:1 in a hybrid system of some sort. Like that's what I hope that the the the engineers would do is to go how can we
make if it's not a 4 to one that can be done within the how can we respect the the the property rights of the owners and still create some solution. maybe half the yard is a hybrid like going out
of the way a little bit here under these circumstances that that that Allen engineering could say if we have to do it or is it saying no none of those options work a 3:1 is the only way to do it
um have we looked outside the box to ways that does not put the city in a position for flooding which I agree when you get that close. All of them, all three options bring the water very
close to their home. I mean, really, some more than others, but they're all very close. And I uh for I mean, the people in this room were not a a part of this. Like, we are all trying to fix and solve this problem. And so, I appreciate
everyone here. I I just have to know that the direction given was not one path. We got the one path that was presented from the residents, but it's just hard for me to to think
that like residents came up with the only option that we could do that requires taking property as opposed to like I said a hybrid system. Maybe half
maybe the the lower areas could be a stone and pipe. First question is stone and pipe and underground. Are we talking about the same thing? Is the maintenance requirements the same? Are there any other solutions outside that could respect the 15 ft? If not, we are back
to what tonight is about. So, thank you. >> Have a question. M I say something at this point. >> Yes. Council member King, I think, was just >> Thank you. Um, okay. First of all, what I've seen so far is communication from Miranda Hurst. Not to get personal
about this, but I'm stating a fact who seems to be speaking for all of the owners, but I know personally one of the owners, and that owner has told he is extremely frustrated, extremely vexed, used to be friends with the Hursts
initially, but won't have anything further to do with them because they, as he put it, keep throwing a monkey wrench into the gears. He's frustrated because he want he said, "I can't sell this place now. I can't do anything with it and I would like to because I don't want
to be here anymore. I mean, he's just fed up with it. And I'm thinking that, you know, we're we're we're looking at the granular level of all of this trying to figure out the right solution. To me, the right solution is pick one and do
it. The hearse be damned. I'm sorry. Caveat mour. They are construction people. They are builders. They should have known initially and done due diligence when they looked at that property and decided to purchase it. They've been nothing but
chronic complainers ever since. Much to the much to the the the like I say the frustration and vexation of this other owner who is just do it. And that's that's kind of how I'm getting the sense of this. We as a city have to protect
ourselves. I'm sorry if the Hursts don't like it. We have to protect our taxpayers. We represent them and I feel for them, but again, caveat mtor and of all the people of all the people who
bought in that complex. They're the ones who should have known better from the first pl in the first place. I find it hard to have sympathy for them even though but I can see the others points of view and they're tired of it. They want
resolution and and if we keep getting information from Mrs. Hurst that just prolongs the agony. I say let's vote on it. Let's do it. Let's move forward and and if they don't like it, fine. Get it fixed and sell it. She's already said
she's admitted. I've heard not directly that she's they want to sell it. They want to get out from underneath it. Oh, we don't like blah blah blah. Well, okay. Let's make it easy for you to sell it. Let's fix it and let's protect the city
at the same time. And that's what I want to say. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member King. I think um we got people in the audience that don't own or live in either one of these properties. They live across the street from these properties and and from the
very beginning they expressed concern about it. Um I certainly understand where you're coming from and we can't do anything on one of four property owners. Uh I don't think the the Hurst have ever claimed that they represent all four
property owners, but I think that it would be hard to find if at all concerns that the hearse raised whether the other owners agrees that were not
valid. I'm with you on resolution and I think the property owners are with resolution and I that's the one thing I do like about the our city manager having all four property owners that will speak for itself right so whatever
is decided all four will speak I'm concerned about obviously option one was a concern uh but resolution is the goal uh item two I I have concerns about u
from the city for in the interest of the city. I understand our city manager's ex explanation. Um and then option three I do think is the the better of the three but
each each of the property owners all four unanimous would have to agree and so that would overcome that issue. Uh there's way too much details here. The truth is, and if I could be as frank as
you, is none of those property owners, in my opinion, are at fault of anything. >> Anything. Uh, and I mean that. And it's I mean, we can quibble over some stuff, but there's
there's three parties involved, and they're the one party that I would have a very hard time. They as all four property owners, not the Hurst, any of them and all of their frustration, pain, it I can't even call it impatience. I it
is they have been extremely patient and through all their frustration. It's one of those circumstances for uh I I I I can't say anything other than they've they've been beyond patient and
I would not want any of our engineer or city manager or any of this council with an exception of council member Willis and and Mayor Pro Tim Jackson who's been through the the vast majority if not all of it to know that there's just too many
moving pieces to put it all together on how we got here. So, I get where you're coming from, but uh resolution is the goal. And so, we agree on that. You just get to a point to where
it's been so long. you do not want and that's what I'm sensing out of the comments from Mayor Pertim is and and council member Willis is we're not going to slop it up here in the final moments without good data without doing it right. If we're going to do it let's do
it through. So the real cost is time like the time we put on tonight and um those are my comments. Thank you very much. And I do understand uh and sympathize with with all the
property owners uh respectfully. So >> yes, Council Member Willis, >> can the city attorney give us an opinion on option two or option three if we were to have any
legal action somewhere in the future? Does anything assist the city or is detrimental to the city on any recoupment >> or if it if it's better not to answer.
>> I think you all understand I think the facts of the situation. you understand, you know, a lot of the legal issues because I talked to each one of you about it. >> Mhm.
>> So, if you in terms of the city's legal authority and the city's abil potential ability to collect, option two is is your best. I don't that in my my opinion. >> Okay, that's that's what I wanted. Thank
you. Yes, please. And we we can discuss. My permission is not seek during this phase. So just speak up respectful of each other. Um, so Rich, with the option of the pipes and concrete or rock or
whatever, um, instead of having a swell, a normal swell, where would that discharge? It would have to yet to be designed. I, you know, it it holds a certain volume.
uh if it were to discharge, it would have to go out towards the street. >> Okay? So, it would have to discharge into the storm water system >> the way it currently is designed to do, >> which means if we if we entertain that option whatsoever,
we need new storm water data because that goes into Filmore that we're getting ready to work on the storm water system for Filillmore. So then effectively then using that option
instead of a swell if we use that as the in only option then that would mean we take away all natural drainage in that swell area >> well >> or is it just discharging out into the
dirt you know the soil to percolate down >> you mean the stone Stone and pipe. >> Yeah, the stone and pipe option. Yeah, >> my understanding the stone and pipe system I believe would capture and percolate.
>> Okay. So, it would capture and percolate. >> But I think whatever you do, if under our code, if you're not going to discharge, >> you need to capture a 100redyear storm and retain it on site. >> Okay. So, >> so it's a whole it's a different
ballgame as you said. It's new calculations. It's it's going to be re engineered because it's not >> okay. What >> So then we're looking at city cost to re-engineer that project as well as you know uh
we're going to have to do some storm water calculations on that. >> So there's going to be some storm water design on that. Um, and instead of our storm water calculations like I showed you being 25 years, we have to look at
we have to accommodate for 100 years. Is am I understanding that correctly? >> That's my understanding and I'd have to look more deeply, but I know if we plan on no discharge from our site, we have to hold a 100redyear storm. >> Okay. So,
>> under our code. So, that becomes a question that I have for our city attorney and our city manager and maybe even you, Rich, because I've worked in construction, too, and understand what a change order is. And when you sign the
site plant map and sign that that's what you're getting. Then if you make a change that changes that after that design is approve is approved and signed off on then you have to pay for that change order
>> normally. Am I correct on in this particular environment? Okay. So in the original plan we accommodated for the 4 to one the 3:1 4:1 swell right and but we can't do that because the bamboo on
the back correct >> okay >> my understanding all right so if we look at changing to the pipe and the rock or whatever then we'd look at we've got to
get Allen engineering to engineer a new solution We have to get new storm storm water calculations, which storm water calculations aren't free either, right? Um, city attorney, would that be considered a change order?
>> I think it I think you're mixing apples and oranges. It's not a change order. That is a material different enhanced system. Let's go back to where the city's legal authority lies. is the city's legal authority lies
um to to um exercise its right under an emergency drainage easement. This is private property. It's a private drainage swale. The city has an emergency drainage easement to go in and and make repairs to the existing
drainage swale system. What you're talking about, yes, I guess would be a change order, not in a technical sense, but a material change to the entire system. That would be, as Rich indicated, would have to be totally redesigned.
>> That is not what was originally constructed. And frankly, and I'm going to be perfectly blunt because you all know in private conversations, I have serious legal and ethical concerns about doing anything other than the city staying within the guard rails of
exercising its rights under the emergency drainage easement and repairing the existing swale system. So, I'm on record and that's my advice. You all do what you want to do.
>> Okay. Here's what I I want to take a Yes. Council member Shory. >> So, that's would be option two. Is that the closest to that, city attorney? option two of the of the options that have been presented in my in my view from based on Councilman Willis's questions
from a legal standpoint is the best option that I've heard. >> Thank you. >> This meeting can convene I need two minutes uh at minimum. Uh we can all take a recess here for a few minutes and let's come back and try to make a
decision at a minimum. Be back by 8:40 if possible. Thank you. What? Council member King disappeared. your leg. We'll get started here in about 1 minute. >> As long as y'all not wear coffee, you'll
be doing good. >> As long as you don't try to dress us in it. That's one on Friday. >> Okay. >> Ready. >> Call the meeting back to order. It is 10:47 p.m.
>> Oh, man. I hope my >> y'all got to check on me. >> Something's not right. >> Watch. >> Gee, it's as clear as day. 8:47 p.m. Wow. Uh, so
>> maybe I should have got some coffee. Uh, call the meeting back. Thank you. The, uh, call the meeting back to order. The item we are in uh facing right now is uh 9.1.
The bill is at Filillmore. We just took a recess after some lengthy discussion and I think we we've got uh to a point to where we've heard from our city manager, city attorney. We've all discussed kind of the pros and
the cons and I think taken serious consideration of the residents um in in bringing the meeting back to order. We can continue to ask more questions if we choose. I'm not saying that we should be done with that.
Option three requires all four resident signatures. Um option two does not right that's my understanding it would be I think
the best option would be to pursue option three and if all four signatures were pursued uh we would then obviously go forward with option two
uh that that would in in discussion to me would make the most amount of sense but open to prior to making a formal motion on that discuss it. Um I don't see a whole lot of risk in that. Um
while one property owner to Council Member King's point has been largely more outspoken on the issues, um the silence of other employ or uh residents does not necessarily mean that
they're going to be in support of one or the other. And so I I I don't know. They will have to speak for themselves. So that would be what I think would be the best direction would be to pursue option three and then give this city manager the authority to move forward with
option two in the event that did not want. I can't imagine a scenario where option three was provided signatures from all four residents and then option two was the best option
considering the change. >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes. >> In Miranda Hurst's letter to uh to us dated on June the 4th. >> Yes. >> In the second paragraph, I want to make
sure this is noted. Thank you for your concern that the storm water will be within 2 feet of the patios. We were trying to eliminate the storm water that every plan has shown within two feet to our side foundations that has been reduced now to 1 and 1/2 ft in
crosssection D. Flooding the patio seems less damaging than the foundation, but it appears both are equally possible. As you stated, there's not enough property, which has been our concern the entire project. Um, then she goes on to state,
"Have we looked at any other options?" Um, and that's why I'm not a fan of that option three. There's a reason for it. It's because I don't want water in their home. Um, I don't want it on a patio. When you have flooding that happens and
pooling that happens, concrete degrades and um spalls and then people will have problems going forward. And if it's around their if it floods their patio, it will go up under if it's over the patio, it's going under the patio as
well. That's what I've experienced with flooding. Now, is that is that correct? uh I'm ask our city engineer instead of me making the being an expert on it. >> I mean if the if the yard's flooding
it's obviously there there would be nothing I mean to if it's flooding the property it's flooding the property. I mean >> right >> um >> so I'm that this is my concern for
option three. This is why I'm concerned is because I don't want water getting up in their homes. I don't want that. Um, and that's what my concern becomes because option three is where we're doing the slope that's going up to their
house. And with option three, is that a 25-year storm we have to accommodate for or a 100redyear storm? that would still be a 25 year because it would still discharge to have a positive outfall.
>> Okay. >> Um so without me having data, let's put it this way, without me having data on the possibility of water encroaching up on their patio or under the patio
foundation. I'm I'm I'm worried about that option. Is is one option more risk flooding than the other? Between two and three to simplify it. >> Well, two keeps water further away from
the pro from the house itself, the structures, >> but they both can hold the same amount of water. >> Yes. >> And one of them, what's the benefit over three and two? I think the homeowners would allow in three to not only have
the bamboo as option two does, but also have more usable space in their backyard. >> Uh I think the the effectively the edge of your treatment system is flatter,
>> but it's still part of your treatment system. I mean, you can't build any structures. You can't put a barbecue. I mean, that's now all going to be easement if all four property owners agree.
>> Yeah. >> So, there there's no it it's flat out there, but there's no building any other structures, adding I would say even a a shed or something like that. So, it it's
going to tie up that property. It It is flatter. I mean, if we're um I I don't know. I >> I think as the city's discussed, >> you know, option two is in in my opinion, option two would be
the best of the three options. >> Yes. I think to me, if option three got all four signatures, that puts the city in a strong position to go against any issues.
I I understand if option two floods, right? I mean, there's no difference. Just because it comes up closer doesn't mean it can't hold the same amount of water. Like you said, if it floods, it floods. To me, it
would be clear that option two is the point by not getting all four signatures and put us in a stronger position. Um, that's my opinion. I think it's the lowest risk. It it would confirm that
all four property owners sign as opposed to option two does not get any consent of the property owners at all and they're both equal in regards to treatment and volume according to
professional stamped engineering requirements. I do get the obvious optics of it coming closer, but one of them dramatic or changes the way I don't know what the slope is of option three
compared to option two or if it's a 3 one on two. >> There's a document. >> Is it um Thank you. >> It's in the backup and we'll put it on the screen. >> Okay. >> To show the general in the backup
documents. >> So, we're talking about 7 to one, which almost doubles. And >> I mean, I'm just putting myself I'm a town home owner myself >> right there. >> Uh my backyard uh is usable for the most part. It was built much earlier. And I
can tell you that uh if I signed a document that said this option is better uh I I don't know my recourse which would be the major concern with the city um being that I I agreed to it and most
importantly I'd be able to use that space much more efficiently than a steeper slope than what the contractor ctors were obligated to to to install and to to do um or and so
or the 3:1 is a much steeper slope. In fact, it'd be argued that they actually had a 3:1 slope at some point. I don't know. We can't go back in time. So, to me, if option two is the pick, it would be well, let's see if option three can
get across. It's been engineered. it's been stamped. If not, we're rolling with option two. Both of them get the resolution as I think we all agree with council member King. Um, and the concern valid without data. Mayor Prom and
Council Member Willis. The only other option to me would be if if we're going to move with option two, I would say that's riskier. We should at least have data for that before moving forward. And I'm not sure all four property owners
are going to be happy with option two. >> I don't know what data you're talking about. I'm sorry. It's a code compliant plan. >> It's code compliant. >> What is that? >> It is a code compliant plan. What data data are you referring to for option
two? The data would be that the city enforced the former engineer enforced a 4:1 slope and never gave the other contractors any option for anything less than that >> and made them revise that multiple times
and never disclose that the city engineer could in fact change it. So, if I could make a recommendation, um I know of at least two out of four residents uh appear to uh want option three and uh they presented it. It was
engineered for them. It didn't turn out exactly like their uh rendering because it wasn't a professionally engineered rendering, but it, you know, Allen Engineering got option three as close to that rendering as it could and it is a code compliant plan. So my
recommendation to the council would be direct staff uh to approach them on signing the document that the attorney has to um present with them and and if they agree to that because they asked for us to do it and we've done it and it
is an option for them then we'll present that option to them and we should um give a time limit for when they sign. we have to move so that get that time limit. Um and if we get the the signatures by all four within that time
limit then we will execute option three and we will put this job out to bid. If we cannot get all four signatures or we cannot m meet a reasonable time limit then direct the city and staff to execute option two. >> That's exactly what I'm saying.
>> Perfect. And so I just would recommend that you that that be the direction that this council goes. Mayor Prom's concerns notwithstanding. Uh they are viable concerns and they've been, you know, kind of the engineer has brought that to everyone's attention, but it is
nevertheless what they asked for and we have at least two out of four that say that they like that. >> So direct us to find out if we get all four. If not, we'll proceed with option two. >> It couldn't have said it better myself. Yes, that that is it. Pursue three and
and if not, it's clear. We're going forward two. We have resolution >> is that >> absolutely. So >> and option three is code compliant as well. >> It is. Yeah. So if it would be framed in the form of a motion uh recommend that we direct the city manager to uh
approach residents on um signing or turning whatever language that the city attorney drafts for uh the property becoming part of the uh storm water retention system. Establish a timeline for that. And in the event that we do not meet that timeline or do not get those signatures,
then the city manager is authorized to execute option two. >> So, council, assuming option three is something we even want to pursue, a time limit, I agree, would be a reasonable time limit, uh, would be prudent. And then unless there's folks here that
don't want to pursue option two, they would obviously be able to execute on that. So, any discussion? What if we option three? I guess this is directed to the city attorney. How because I know option two is probably our best bet for being able to
recover what we're spending from the original builder. Is option three so far off that we that would lessen our chances? That's my concern. I want to see if we can get that money back from the developer. No, >> I don't. No, I don't. When I was asked a question about the
fast option two is the closest stays within the existing boundaries of the easement. Both both options address the um construction defect in my view regarding the air conditioning units. Something has to be done to accommodate
for for that problem. But the air conditioning units were mentioned on the back side of the property. >> I mean to say that they didn't exist, right? that that that was a part of community appearance board review
then it moved and but on the back side of the property to council member Shoryak's question it was still a 4 to1 slope and I understand if you move it it might change the water quantity and quality requirements
I'm not sure why option two is is better than option three to address council member Shriek's question on recouping dollars both of them make major changes. And to me, uh,
if if if they're both at risk, I would at least rather give something that would mitigate the property owners from one of their major concerns is I can't use the back of my property and it's a steep slope. Now we're going steeper.
And so at least you take two I mean both parties could sue the property owners and the contractors, >> right? They both one of them at least would have to sign saying, "Hey, this is
better." And then that would isolate the the recoup ability. I I think that and I'm just talking out loud. That's >> and Mr. Mayor, I'm going to say because I keep hearing usability and I've owned
a bunch of properties. I've I've had them in multiple states and there's no guarantee of usability of the lot. Um that lot was covered with a huge townhouse and it then there's drainage required in the back of it for storm
water. So when I hear use Billy, I cringe a little bit because when you buy in real estate and you look at that, there's no there's no obligation uh for anyone to provide you with usability for something you're buying.
If there if the plan is that that lot coverage is that lot coverage and there's a swale in the backyard that it's an easement. >> But one of them said, "I can't maybe I can use it or not. I got a four to one. Now we're going to change it to I maybe
I can use it or can't but it's much steeper as opposed to something all of them would have to sign and agree to. >> I think that the biggest difference and I don't disagree with what you're saying is one has all four private property
owner signatures which is powerful. >> Right. That's I guess if to not get wrapped around because we don't have all the data and all the options and I'm I don't disagree. I think we're all this is not anyone up here's like but
>> I just >> I think that four signatures is powerful and if not two proceeds one of them does not have four signatures and that to me is a higher risk. Well, one of the one that doesn't have four signatures close matches more
closely the original design. So, there's arguments there in my opinion. >> Absolutely. >> So, >> but you now have two potential if one did not sign. >> Well, yeah. And and >> you now have two parties collectively.
>> And really, when it comes down to what our city manager is recommending, go for option three. If all of the the residents are good with that >> and that slope, >> it doesn't matter what K's concern is. It's their property there. This is
private property. >> If they want to sign off on it >> and and transfer some property over to city easement and have a little bit more of a slope or less of a slope, then you know what? I'm I'm good with that. I
didn't gather that when I read Miranda's email. That's why I was concerned is because um she thanked us for looking at the how close it is to her within 2 ft of the patio and then discuss the fact
that they were looking for, you know, a way to make sure the storm water was accommodated for. That's when I went into the sideby-side comparison >> because I don't know if it's accommodated for with all these options without looking at it that way. Although
option three, >> we didn't have any storm water water data on it yet. >> Right. >> Okay. So, if we want to go forward with option three, um once again, um you know, I'm I'm
I term out in November. So, no, I'm teasing. I don't term out, but I'm at the end end of my my term. Um, but seriously, I hope that we're able to move forward with it after this amount of time. And storm water calculations,
we'll have to get those to make sure what we're doing. Or I think, am I correct, Rich? That if we do option three, when we need storm water calculations or we know that it's going to accommodate what we already have. I think if option three is chosen, it
would make sense to go back to Allen Engineering and ask them to run the calculations. >> Okay. So, we'd have to run calculations, but we wouldn't have to re-engineer, right? >> That your concern? >> No, I mean, well, >> so we wouldn't have to re-engineer.
>> And we know it's an approved plan because the city manager has told us that. We know that the city attorney is going to put together legal documents to So, you know what? I'm good with try the try plan three if the if the residents are good with it than I am
>> and then >> yeah until they sign >> it's just going to take longer you know >> them moving forward with it so I'm good with it if that's what they want to do >> and we will see I I think we're saying yes to option two
but if all unanimous option four works council member Willis do you >> didn't know if the city manager had a >> No Just needed clarification on what our engineers said about going back to Allen Engineering. Um, I thought we have everything we need from him to execute
any one of these three options. >> Well, I I know he has given us the volumes. So, um, >> what question are we trying to answer? >> The only other thing with um
the March 9th calculations he did. >> Yes. for option one. Option one and option two are very very close to the same. >> Yes. >> You know, with very little change. This other one's different. I mean, it it's
different enough that I would at least like to talk to the engineer of record. Ultimately, he's going to have to sign and seal it. So, if he's >> Well, he's ready. I thought this is a draft. the backup document says draft
because it was presented as a draft but it is will be the document >> um you know if that's what the the residents are going to go through I'm just trying to understand for the purpose of a motion what more work has to be done um if we're going to exe if
we're going to approach the residents and and get their consent for the the use of the property what more work has to be done I'm under the impression all the work's been we have a code compliant plan. >> I would like to talk to him and make
sure that he's agrees that the the discharge the pre and post discharge are met and they there's no reason they shouldn't be met with his design and it might even be better because of you're
using more of the yard as treatment system. >> Where are we if they do not is the question. If they do not, >> we're being given direction tonight and coming back before this body >> uh is really not my desire.
>> Sure. >> I want clear direction. >> If Allan, if the calculations don't if he doesn't run the calculations or >> I'm saying what if he runs calculations and now all of a sudden this is another wrench in this plan and it's no longer a
a viable code compliant plan. That's why I'm confused. I thought I we have a code compliant plan. >> Well, he he hasn't run as you know. Well, he hasn't run the
um calculations on option three. Now, I haven't seen them. To me, it's due diligence in that regard. Um the I
I don't know why this plan was presented to this council as an option if it's not now an option is my quandry. >> Is that what I'm >> I believe it I believe it is an option. >> Okay. >> I'm just saying I would like to see the
him to run the calculations with this exact configuration. >> Okay. So now we're in an if situation. The motion has to be phrased so that we're going to get back with the engineer of record and he's going to run
these calculations and if >> they meet the standard then this is a plan for consideration that we present before the residents for signature or if not then where are we with option
three? Right. Can Can I just say to Rich, I mean, on the plan that Mr. Allen prepared, >> he has the bubble and he says the proposed treatment volume is 1,312 cubic feet. Okay. The previously
approved treatment volume is 1,243 cubic feet. So, he obviously ran calculations otherwise he would not have been able to determine what the proposed treatment volume is for option three. Maybe he doesn't have all the you know supporting data but it seems to me
>> it he he did calculations >> he did run it and it does it does consider the volumes both volumes required >> the modeling hasn't been done is the only thing that I haven't seen the modeling >> okay >> of the system they you don't do models
to do what he's provided >> modeling was done on options one and two >> on one on one. >> Yep. And it's significantly and that's where we come up with the peak discharge numbers, the actual
numbers for peak discharge and the rates. So I have no reason. Well, >> we're happy to make the motion to accommodate that. I think that if I I don't want to interfere with any
discussions, but um we'll address anything that you feel is needed in the motion to give to avoid any chance of coming back. Willing to I can speak for myself. Council member Willis. >> Well, I was hoping to make a motion.
>> We have one drafted sort of to help that. Well, can I can I make a motion to direct the city manager to pursue option three and get the supporting data, confirm
supporting data that is comparable to option two and or do we need to go all the way back to option one? >> Option one is not an option for the res.
>> Right. But I mean, but the volume >> Yes. Okay. >> is what I I mean, if that's the only numbers we've got, >> I think if option three cannot work for the modeling or whatever reason, we don't necessarily need to state. I mean
in good faith I believe you would we would have some expectation that for >> sounds like a chance that >> Thank you for not trying to speak for the the engineer of record >> in the event that a surprise I'm
assuming when I say that would come back and something would change I think >> our motion doesn't need to state that our city manager would address that. I'll make a motion to direct the city manager to present option three with the
appropriate legal ramifications uh to the property owners and if there is not unanimous support for option three we proceed with option two. >> And could you include a time limit?
>> I would I would include that we give them 14 days to sign. That's reasonable. >> City clerk and city attorney just asking you to respond to that motion from each perspective. One from the clerks is that
it was captured and understood and city attorney does it comply with your >> as what was stated. Um I don't know if the city attorney wants to add any additional language to that.
>> You have it. Yes, city attorney. Whenever you're ready and then the second is at stake. >> I think just a couple of points. I I don't know if it was captured, but I think it may have been understood. I'm
looking at the current the current agendas to talk about selecting the option. You know, the prior agenda that the council um had that's in your package from May. Um >> let me see. you know, had the other um
um direct directives which I where are we >> are included >> in this motion that's once the option has been selected manager attorney they have to go out they have to go out and get the bid um
get a new contractor and manager would be authorized to approve other incidental construction wave expenses is and then I'm assuming that authorization would be included in this in this motion
as well. >> I don't think it was stated but that's an excellent point >> to put it out the bid imitation of bid. Yes. Yeah, >> was you know to the extent that he did go forward with actually completing this project is then uh the author previous
authorization that was given for the mayor city to consider possibility of filing action against the development team regarding the cost incurred to uh repair the
construction defects. So I would assume that would be included as as well. I mean all that stuff is written in prior directives. I don't think the manager recommended any change >> those prior directives. So we can just rely on what the council previously approved some time ago on those
directives >> and for purposes of tonight I'm pulling up. >> It's just the selection of the option. >> Okay. Option three, unanimous cons need be need the unanimous consent of the property owners for the appropriate legal instrument to expand the easement.
And if um that consent is not obtained within 14 days of of presenting that document to the property owners, then um the manager will then execute on option three. >> I'm captain if we get the consent of the
property owners on option three, the manager is a rights to execute on opt option >> couldn't have said no issue >> okay so the big terms are pursue option three which would be represented by unanimous consent within 14 days
councelor are we okay with that >> in the event unanimous consent is not obtained within 14 days city manager has full authority as city attorney said to pursue option two which would include going out to bid
step before and uh in parallel or after at the time it's all best seek legal remedies and pursue those. So, those are kind of the four
>> components as I'm not trying to restate anything our city attorney said, but I'm just summarizing as as I heard it. And >> if we all want to go through that exercise, we can. That's my understanding. >> Four big parts. >> Yes. >> And you mentioned invitation to bid, correct?
>> Yes. >> Pursue option three, unanimous p. If not, option two require a bid. And then the fourth part would be legal remedy. >> So I think our council member Willis had
stated uh the majority of or at least half those. I think that we could you could continue on with your motion and say and add on if if Robert's rules applies or
we could let that motion die and you could restate it all again. To me, I think um be probably easier to add on the the bid and the legal remedy. Well, add to the motion that uh
once the options are agreed upon, we put it out to bid and then follow on at that time with legal action. >> Council want to take a 30 seconds. Does everyone understand the motion before any second so that we don't have to
amend it? Uh be easier to let it die for lack of second. Respect to council member Willis. And if we could go down, council member King, does that make Do you understand the motion? >> I do. I do. And I I
>> Yes, I do. >> Council member Shoryak. >> Yep, I got it. >> Mayor Pro Tim. >> Yes. >> And then when ready, we will need a second. If our city attorney is okay, we'll we'll make a second. And I know
it's that maybe the language is not in the motion per se, but I just want to make sure we're we're clear. I mean, if you look at the agenda for tonight on June 16th. >> Okay. >> Um I just you know notice that you'll see A, B, and C.
>> Mhm. >> Um A is is is what you mentioned those key components. It's option three. If you have unanimous consent of the property owners on the legal instrument to expand the easement if that and that has to be obtained within 14 days of
presentment of that easement in document if that consent is not given then the manager moves on to option three. I would just ask that you know the motion you know it doesn't need to be stated but B and C on page one of the agenda
is the previous directive that the com council gave that sums up you know the the managers authorized right to approve construction related expenses deemed necessary etc. And then sub paragraph C is to approve initiating legal proceedings if warranted to seek
recovery of any costs or expenses. That um that's the the direction that I would want to make sure that the council is clear on. Obviously, it would be subject all of this is subject to city manager approval. Um but th those are as the
mayor indicated before I think key components. >> Council Oh, sorry. City attorney. Yeah. >> Take a second to read B and C in our screenings before you and uh just consent that the motion as Council Member Willis made. Your intent is
represented in those as city attorney stated. I can amend it to authorize the city manager to approve construction related expenses deemed necessary to complete the draining improvements to include the replacement of any bamboo removed from
the property for soil erosion and storm water management purposes in accordance with the final plans and approve initiating legal proceedings if warranted to seek recovery of any cost or expenses available under law against
the developers related to a remedial project undertaken to repair drainage improvements. >> If any council member objects with those amendments or additions to the motion, please
when ready, let me know. And I appreciate consent when ready. And then we'll go for a second if ready. So is that what is what council member Willis just read the final version
>> amended >> or this is the amended version >> of the initial motion. Yeah >> of the initial motion. Okay. Was getting so long I don't remember what the initial one was. >> Well, I think there's very little change
to what >> the agenda summary if if council member we all went through it all. There's very little change with an exception of the order of pursuing option three first. So, I'm not sure if we changed anything and the city
attorney was adding in kind of some key points that >> So, it's these three points >> plus we're going to look at option three. If that is not acceptable, we will use option two. We will um get the
owners to sign off on option three. >> And if not, we will use option two. And that's the full full >> motion. Okay. All right. I'm good. I'm good to go. >> Before all can anyone object? Council members and >> the the 14 days. Is that in there
somewhere? Okay. >> With the 14 days, right? >> I that was clearly stated and I think we all agree with that. Okay. >> I think >> um with Councilman um Willis's description reading from B and C that it encapsulated everything.
all the all the all the points that we want to make. Pursue option three with unanimous consent from the owners within 14 days. If none, pursue option two. Um and then and and then pursue a bid and then pursue legal remedies and these two
things added on. There it is. One big package. Let's vote. That's good. >> The clerk has it down. Second the motion. >> Okay. A second by council member Shoriaak on that fancy motion.
>> Jeez. >> Final check. City attorney. Are we good? >> Any further discussion? >> City clerk, please call the role. >> Mayor Prom Jackson, four. Council member King, four. Mayor
Morrison, >> four. Council member Shiaak >> four. >> And council member Willis >> four. >> The record show item 9.1 passes
50 as the motion stated. Which brings us to item 9.2. Woo. Resolution number 20263, parks and wreck and community affairs department fee schedule parenthesis revised
confirming council's got the revised document as written. Mr. city manager >> just a maybe a brief overview or we've obviously had a workshop which certainly helps with this. Um
absolutely mayor we did have a workshop on this item and the history of course goes back to the joint workshop that the city council did with our culture and le leisure services committee. Uh last um meeting our parks and recreation
director presented the findings of the recommendations and presented some fee scales uh or fee schedules, excuse me, for consideration. Uh our director and staff is here to answer any questions uh continue on with any presentation that
you may need um unless you're ready to vote. Council any discussion or questions? Let's start here. Let's handle it like a public hearing or any other item. Just to for the record show, this is a change in the
fee schedule. This is one reading. Our city attorney can confirm we do not need to do two readings due to the nature of what these fees it's. It's nonutility related fees. So, I think we're we're going to be able to uh move forward on this tonight. This will be final. um
we've discussed it. I don't think we had any amendments from our workshop as presented and so uh if there's any technical questions at this point before seeking a motion. >> Seeing none, I'll look for a motion. Oh yes, council member or mayor pro Tim
Jackson. >> I'm sorry. I'll make it short. Um, city attorney, um, is this are the contracts with Silver Sneakers at a point where or I guess I should have asked maybe Parks and Recck or Molly what the date um, the
ending date for the contracts are because we discussed them being boilerplate last time and really we need to try to negotiate every contract we have. Not nothing's boilerplate. When you negotiate, you can do that. So, um,
what are the dates of the contract that the contract ends >> for Silver Sneakers? The contract expires on 4:30 2027. Um, for renew uh slop, that will be um, if we're going to make
any changes or end our agreement with them, we'll need to let them know by 91206. Um, and then for Ash Fitness, that'll be a notice required of any changes or termination by 93 2026.
>> Okay. >> 2026 >> is the last one. Okay. >> So, um, Mr. City Manager, when these contracts come up, I politely request that we try to negotiate these. um having been with phone vendors the
majority of my life where all of them will tell you, "Oh, no, we won't negotiate that." All kinds of negotiation techniques come out when you're getting ready to leave them. So, um we really need to look at um those types of things when they're up for
renewal. Um and then I was going to ask the city attorney, so Mr. city attorney. Do you find that these types of contracts are able to be negotiated with other municipalities? >> Um, I frankly don't have any other
experience with any other municipality regarding these >> types of contracts, so I don't know. >> Okay. And do you feel like contracts can be negotiated? >> Of course. >> Okay. So, there's my my feedback, Mr. Mayor.
>> Great. Quy any other questions at this time? Thank you, Mayor Perim. >> I just Mr. Mayor. >> Yes. >> I I just think that it should be standard operating procedure to seek negotiating contracts anyway. So, >> anytime they come up,
>> as our director stated, it sounds like two of them are in September of this year. >> So, hopefully enough time to get in front of those. And the other one's got a little bit more runway till April of 2027, the first one you mentioned. And >> yeah. Yeah, we're locked into that one
till April unless we want to um pull whatever uh process they have in terms of Well, rarely do I have to move a microphone up. Um, but in terms of their termination agreement, >> well, I think in good faith, you know, that that our city manager and the team
here will pursue any termination clauses if it makes sense. If not, let it run out and and all that needs to happen to address this council is going to communicate a broad concern and I think we're going to address it and I'm confident thanks to
the workshop that our city staff will work with our city attorney to um choose to exercise as Molly, our director, has stated anything beyond just the the end
of the contract which both happen in September. Um, are there any other questions at this time for our director or city manager, city attorney, or anyone? >> No. I'll make a motion that we accept resolution or pass resolution 2026-03
revising the fee schedule for u the parks and recreation. >> I'll second that. >> Got a motion by Mayor Pro Tim Jackson, a second by council member Willis. Was that Willis?
>> Council member King. >> I need to choose one. >> I'll be it. >> Council member, a second by council member King. >> Is there any further discussion on item 9.2 resolution 20263?
Seeing none, city clerk, please call the role. >> Mayor Prom Jackson, >> four. >> Council member King, >> four. >> Mayor Morrison, >> four. >> Council member Shyak, >> four. >> And council member Willis, >> four. >> Item 9.2, resolution 202603
passes 50. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much for all your work and the willingness to do the workshop on that item. 9.3 is our next item which is the titled save our Indian River Lagoon local infrastructure sir tax renewal of
interlocal agreement the uh proposed motion to consider an approval of the Savar Indian River Lagoon SIRL soil local infrastructure certex lo renewal of the inner local
agreement which has provided to us city manager any initial comments or overview of what's going on here. >> Uh just that the county commission appro um approved or is set to approve this referendum and it was subject for uh to
voter approval for an additional 10 years and that attachment is um part of the backup and we do have city staff that can speak on this matter and we also have a representative from Save Our Indian River Lagoon who's walking to the mic now.
>> Well, you been patient with us. Thank you so much. Please introduce yourself. >> Yes. Um, good evening. My name is Terry Breeden and I'm the program manager for the Bvard County Save Our Indian River Lagoon halfcent sales tax. Um, on I believe everybody was given a handout and then for everybody in the audience
there's handouts on the um table outside, but this is the brief overview of the Save Our Lagoon plan. It's otherwise a 350 page book. So, here it is in a colorful uh pamphlet. It explains the half cent sales tax. So we
started collecting funds January 1, 2017 to address the water quality issues, the fish kills, the unusual mortality events. Um over the 10 years, we are anticipated to collect $583 million going towards 14 different project types
in the plan. So everything from public education, wastewater treatment facility upgrades, septics uh to sewer, septic system upgrades for people that cannot connect to sewer. um storm water projects, aquatic vegetation harvesting
in storm water ponds, muck removal, oyster bars, planted shorelines, and we're doing clam restoration as well. Um this tax will end collections in December of this year. So, as um the
city manager just said, uh county commission has authorized us to put it on the ballot in November. So, we are waiting to see what happens. But um part of this interlocal agreement is to uh have the county uh manage the
trust fund and then continue with how things have been going. So um if you have any questions, we've I'm happy to answer. We have just completed 134 of about 400 projects. Um we've spent 120
million of the 583 million, but we've also been able to leverage these funds to collect more grants. So the county alone has 115 million in grants going towards these projects and the cities have all been also working on leverage
leveraging those funds to get their own grants as well. >> Thank you so much. The 583 million was collected from 2017 to >> that's the anticip we've collected 522 million to date uh around there. Um, so
by the end of the calendar year, we should have close to 583 million. >> Okay. And is there a place that this council or the residents could go to see kind of >> annually how that came in? I wouldn't assume it's >> We have Yes, we have monthly meetings
and everything is presented. The monthly financials are presented there. It's all on our website as well. And then we have quarterly meetings where we go through every project and give the status update on that. So our last one was what month are we in? June. >> June.
>> Uh May. So um that meeting we presented um all the project updates. >> Thank you. >> And it's all recorded. It's all on our website. It's on our YouTube. And um happy to answer any questions if the public has any questions to our >> council. Any questions?
>> I'm just amazed that uh we have a half a penny and over the course of what 10 years? >> Yep. You've raised that much money, half a penny. >> We've had a lot of uh crazy things happen with the economy the past couple years. >> That's amazing. That's amazing. Well,
good. Congratulations. >> Yeah. Half a billion. Over a half a billion, right? >> Half a do. >> I have a question for >> Mr. Mayor. >> Yes, Mayor Burton. >> Thank you for being so patient. Bless
your heart. We should have moved you up front. Um, but I do have a question. How and and the mayor did ask about how we could have uh or where we could find some of the projects and that sort of thing. And do you all give um I know
I've seen some progress reports with you all. I know that um and I I'm little miss honest and blunt. You know, a lot of the people are questioning whether that tax is actually helping or not with
the increased space launches and all the activity we have in Bvard County and all of that. So, um is there somewhere where we can point people that it gets into more information is one question uh that
I have for you >> that. So, yes, our website has all of this information. We track all of the nutrient reductions for the projects. So once all of the projects are completed in the plan, we'll have 1.3 million pounds of reduction per year. Um with
all of the projects combined that have been completed, we're just at a cumulative total of 1.1 million pounds of total nitrogen reduction. Our area um has seen significant growth in the past few decades. So
it take how do I want to say this? Uh we haven't kept up the way we should have and so we've got to do better and this tax is helping us get better. Um the water quality has improved. Um our overall
average of total nitrogen for all sublumes, so Banana and um North and Central was around 1.7 millig per liter of total nitrogen. when we started in 2016. We're now down to about 1.1. So,
we've have seen a decrease, which is good. So, things are working. We just need to keep going. >> Okay. Perfect. And then, Mr. Mayor, I wanted to just make sure and say this for the public record, for our citizens and people that are watching, this
resolution that we're about to accept is not necessarily the city being in favor of the lagoon tax. It's us being in favor of them adding it onto the ballot v for v via referendum. So, it needs to
be signed by the cities saying we want it to go out to the voters for them to decide on the tax. And I just wanted to verify and make sure that we were aware that that's what this is. It's for it's to put the refere the referendum on the
ballot so that our citizens can vote on it or not. >> It's an excellent point. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim. Council member Willis. >> Uh yes, I I can look out my back patio and see the Banana River and how clean it has become. But we do have some
significant issues with the shorelines >> along the Banana River. And I think it would be behoove us to uh participate in this to seek whatever funds we can to reinforce our shoreline along the Banana River here in Cape Canaveral. We do a
lot of work on the beach front. We need to do some on the lagoon front. Thank you. >> Thank you, Council Member Shyak or Council Member King. Any comments? I can just say that start date 2017. We saw
how fast things went down in the lagoon. The the algae blooms at Brown. I mean it was rapid like what is happening to our lagoon. >> Then we saw and when you say growth, we saw the COVID and the economy grow and then we saw the the the development. And
so the fact that when that went into place, not only did it help, but it the net benefit in the face of that growth is clear. I mean, I go out on the lagoon, I see it. We all drive over the bridges. You can
see in the summertime, you can see I mean, winter time when it's clear, okay? >> But in those summertime months when it when you can see that even a hint of aqua blue gives great hope. And the fact that we're measuring that nitrogen
removal is amazing. So, as Mayor Perim said and all of us I think echoed here uh tonight, we I can speak for I support this. I think it's a good thing. Thank you so much for sticking with us and uh we will certainly go to your resources
or at least point our residents to those resources. >> Looks like they pulled it up here. So yeah, everything's here if you just go to um Roardell Save Our Lagoon uh and everything's on here, all the latest documents and then all of our meetings are recorded and we do project videos.
So it might be too much information, but no, thank you. It's up on the screen here as city clerk just helped us and um >> we appreciate. Are there any other further comments? And >> well, I mean, we we see a significant
benefit economically >> Mhm. >> from a clean lagoon. >> Mhm. >> So, no one wants to go swimming or fishing in in a dirty place. So, thank you. >> You're welcome. And Mr. Mayor, >> yes. >> Our city attorney needs to clarify my
comment >> when appropriate. >> When appropriate. >> I think we're good. City attorney. >> Okay. Just to clarify, um the county is already um commission's already decided to put the referendum question out. Um the what's being asked of the city
council is to the approval of the interlocal agreement renewal, which is basically as a participating municipality. It lays out the framework of the um of the program itself and the city's ability to participate in the use
and distribution of the sir tax. assuming um it gets approved for another another 10 years. >> So referendum's going out on the ballot. It's just >> this is a participation agreement. It's like a renewal of the existing in a
local agreement. >> And I interpreted the point. Thank you, city attorney. Does council all understand the city attorney's clarification to make sure we understand? >> Yeah. I just have a question. If so, if the referendum fails, which probably won't happen, but if it failed, then
this interlocal uh agreement would be null and void, right? >> Correct. >> Yeah. It would not uh go in really go into effect. This is being done in advance. >> Correct. Yeah. But the program would continue um through you know with the the sir tax
collected under the first referendum is my understanding. So when that gets exhausted then the program would then uh close close its doors. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> The average uh I think or it could be
understood that we were voting on the tax increase. You know if you just tuned in I think that was your point. That's not what we're doing. >> But very important as our city attorney said. And uh most importantly, are there any other questions on this decision?
Assuming it passes, as you as council member King said, um thank you again. >> All right. Thank you. >> If there's no other questions, I'll look for a motion to approve. >> Make a motion to approve the renewal of the interlocal agreement.
>> Second. Got a motion by council member Shoryak, a second by council member Willis to approve which is item 9.3 save our Indian River Lagoon local infrastructure certex renewal of
interlocal agreement. Any further discussion? >> Just one note that's ordinance 2026-06. What is >> that's the ordinance that we're voting on? >> No, that's that's actually the county ordinance. >> Oh, that one is >> calling for the referendum. That's backup.
>> It's just the in local agreement renewal that >> So, we don't have a resolution on this one. >> No, just an in local. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. Sorry. Clarified that. >> Any further discussion? >> City clerk, please call the role. >> Mayor Pro Tim Jackson
>> four. >> Council member King, four. Mayor Morrison, >> four. >> Council member Shriak, >> four. >> And council member Willis, >> give it four. I'll take it. >> Record show that 9.3 interlocal agreement as stated and discussed past
the note. >> Brings us to item 9.4, which is beach paid parking. At the beginning of this meeting, we uh sort of uh agreed to an intention to not take
action, but uh this item is an item for action. And so with that, we certainly can discuss. I think the intent was that we can maintain discussion. And so with that, I'm going to ask our city manager to give us a quick overview. Uh we are
but prior I think it would be prudent to address the clock 9:48 p.m. and look for a motion to extend. >> Make a motion to extend to at least 10:30. >> I'll second the motion. >> Good.
>> Got a motion by council member Willis and a second by Mayor Pro Tim Jackson to extend the meeting till 10:30 p.m. Any further discussion? City Clerk, >> Mayor Prom Jackson,
>> four, >> Council Member K, >> four, Mayor Morrison, >> four, >> Council Member Sharia, >> four, >> and Council Member Willis, >> four. The record show that we extended till 10:30 p.m. We are addressing item
9.4, beach and parking, as stated. I'm going to ask our city manager to give a quick overview after our workshop. and Mayor Pro Tim, please hold the gabble. I'll be right back. City manager. >> Thank you, Mayor. So, just a brief
recap. We conducted a workshop on paid parking for the community to participate last week and um the council voted to continue the conversation at the meeting here this evening. The item was placed on this agenda as an action item for
voting uh due to our deadline to get our action our our agenda together. Um and it was very clear after the workshop that um council needed some more time to discuss and it's clear you're going to establish a workshop date here this
evening. Um so uh this is a big item for the community. We understand and that's why we have been as transparent as we can be with uh putting information out there. We've been uh giving updates uh along the way. We updated the community from our workshop. We put it on all the
social medias, our weekly update, and we will continue to update the community on this important item. Uh we we want people to attend and weigh in with their comments so that the council uh can make the best decision for the community after hearing all input from the
residents and that's really what government looks like and uh whichever direction the city goes with this item, we will execute that direction. Um so for this evening just to remind the council that the vendor Sebastian Ortega Chuber is here and if you want to
discuss this item I think we should take advantage of his presence. He did drive up here from several counties to our south and um so he's here at your disposal. That's how important this item is to him. And we have Laura Gandandy from our capital projects uh division or
department here uh to answer any questions as well. So mayor prom. Okay, thank you so much. And I wasn't wanting to derail another workshop, but I felt like we needed to discuss this a little bit more. It's been a very hot topic
online with uh social media, and it's something that has not um has not been embraced in the past. And to me, as far as my thoughts, um, I really, we're at
this point where we're getting ready to get engaged in budget season. And for me, budget season becomes important this year where we really need to look at the things, see if there's cost reductions that we can handle within our budget and
make sure that we don't have any things that are literally things that we could cut. The prices have changed, contracts that could be looked at, various things like that. So, as we look at approaching and discussing parking,
um I think it cutting expenses is extremely important and making sure that we've done that in the areas where we can do that before we start looking at we've got to charge you to park. Now,
having said that, um I've seen people that are our residents and they don't want it at all. And I've seen some that are I've seen commenters on social media from Hawaii and California or at least that's what their Facebook pages and
their social media pages say. We have had people from Orlando that come over and do business on our beach and they don't want it. We've had other people in our county that don't want it. U but when it comes down to it for me it's what do the residents of Cape Canaveral
want? And unfortunately this is a broader discussion in my opinion because um it's one way to look at minimizing um or helping us with revenue while
trying to minimize expenses and the minimization of expenses we're a little premature on because we haven't gotten to our budget meetings yet. So, for me, um, as I look at this, um, scheduling the workshop, I wanted to make sure that
we're looking at, um, making sure that we've had that first budget meeting before we push this. I don't think that this is a topic that we should rush. And I feel like, and I'll be honest with you, okay, with
and putting this on the record right now, I want the people to vote on it that live here because you know what? I do not want to make this decision for you. I will if I'm in a position to do that, but I would love to see this go on the
ballot because this is too passionate of a topic with people. People are literally on fire with this. So, you know what? I I'm me I'm all for if the citizens want to decide on a ballot
initiative, but one thing that we have to do is we're going to have to cut expenses and find ways to bring money into our city. And that's just the way that it is right now. We're looking at property taxes that'll be minimized next
year. Um or potentially with the homestead exemptions going up if people vote on that. And you can't um and we're in a difficult situation where we're trying to make this um budget work for our city. And I'm I'm like the mayor. I
am not someone that wants to tax everyone and keep taxing and tax and spend and tax and spend. So we have to look at what have our patterns been, what have we done in the past, how can we change those things, what ways can we
be more efficient and um you know work smarter and not harder and things like that. our staff. We gave them a directive to go in and look at ways to generate revenue and to go in and cut expenses. And you know what? They've
come to the table with these things for us. And there are hard decisions for us for us sitting up here on council. But I'm almost I'm almost at the point I want to look at the budget. I want to
address looking at where we are right now and then look at what to do with parking. Um I also have concerns and I expressed this in the last meeting. I have concerns about um well and our rep
told us at T2, these are sample numbers. And you know what I have seen all over social media where everyone thought those numbers were set in stone. Those were sample numbers. Do we really have a projection for Cape Canaveral? No, we really don't because you know what? We
don't know what we're going to make. We've never done this before, right? Um but we know that in our city this time of year, beach parking's empty during the week. It's overrun on the weekends and then it's empty again on Monday. And
this is a normal pattern for us. So, as we work with a vendor to look at this, we have to look at what's realistic. Um, our peak season is right before Christmas or about midappril
and the month of January can be busy with families. Um, and then we have, you know, the weekends that are busy. So, are the numbers that you saw as um in the workshop, oh well, we're only going
to make this amount of money on those comments that I've seen online. We don't know what we're going to make yet. This is a this is something there were no projected numbers that were really truly what we've chosen as a council or
discussed. It was a sample of what could happen with our city with parking. But I think that we have to before we go in and charge people, we have to take a look at where are we right now and how do we make sure that we're um looking at
our budget and ensuring that we don't have any fat in it that could be trimmed just like you know looking at contracts that have been in. I know that our city planner, he had looked at something he
brought to council and he did our he did his first contract negotiation. He got a reduced rate on that. That's the kind of stuff we're going to have to do. So, that was where my concern was was going ahead with a workshop. I think at this
point it'd be beneficial if we're doing the parking to do it a little bit later than the budget meeting, the first meeting that we have set up. And I think it's essential that we've got to look at expenses before we come at charging for
making revenues. And then there's also a couple of emails that we received in regards to lawsuits um with municipalities and I had some questions for you on that if you don't mind.
Um because that's being brought Thank you, city clerk. that's being brought up as well about beach lawsuits, federal lawsuits against South Florida cities of Boca Raton s um
Palm Beach, West Palm Beach or Palm Beach and um Delray Beach I think was in there and they're saying the lawsuits I looked them up and looked on Pacer um the lawsuits were saying that it is
because the signs didn't meet federal guidelines and there was another issue. But have has your how is your company how does your company address ensuring that we
are covered? I know our city attorney would have to work with you but I know as a corporation that's a major corporation and you guys are literally a major corporation all over the US providing these services. what
compliance um measures do you all take to ensure that we are following federal guidelines, state guidelines, local guidelines, and all of that? >> Well, thank you for your question. Um I
can't go into too much detail because I just don't know. You know, we have our own uh attorneys like like you do. Um, so I'd have to give you details from them on what protections we take. Now,
when we contract with different municipalities, obviously there's hold harmless and indemnity clauses and all kinds of stuff that can be negotiated. Um, and Del Re is a big customer of ours. I was just meeting with their city manager and their parking folks two
months ago. Um, I did not hear about that lawsuit. I'm not familiar with those, of course. Um, but I can find out specific. >> Well, and let me tell let me tell you what I saw with the lawsuit that I
looked up that included those cities. We had a retired attorney that went to the beach and he parked where he always parks and when he parked there, he got ticketed. And so when he returned, he decided to
look at the companies that provide that service because he felt like the sign that had a dolphin on it and a sea shell and here's the QR code and all of that didn't meet the federal guidelines. So I
think he was not happy, you know, with getting a ticket. Um, but it's a he's saying it's, you know, it didn't meet federal guidelines on the site. So, as we move forward, and I won't put you on the spot anymore on that, but because
you hadn't looked it up, but as we move forward, you know, we want to work if if we ended up going with you guys, it's it's absolutely essential that we're working to ensure that our city doesn't
get sued over a sign. you know that that was I was kind of astounded when I saw this the article and looked up the case. One thing I can say with the the signs that we provide you, well, we use your graphics and then basically we're
providing the the QR code. Uh they meet federal guidelines, right? But of course, a citizen if he ends up being right and what happens with this uh lawsuit, those changes would have to be made. But in addition, our signage uh sometimes different cities have
different aspects to ordinance that require some additional information. So that becomes part part of the signage as well. >> Okay. Well, and thank you. I know those are strange, but there these are things that we've had coming at us. We've gotten a lot of feedback from our
residents, and we've had I mean, frankly, I've seen things in support. I've had a lot of people that have told me personally as I'm out walking on the street that they support it. Um, and they're tired of
One of them gave me an example. She and her husband went to Sherry Down Park this past weekend early just to walk on the beach and see if the sargasm was still out there. Parked and someone came in and parked behind them
their car and left. Went to the beach and they couldn't get out and they only wanted to go down there and see if there was sea seaweed. So, you know, these are the things that make it a challenge for people um for our residents and they
give you these stories, the people that live here. Um but it's going to be, you know, as the mayor said, we're going to have to listen to everyone on this. And um you know, and so I didn't mean to throw you throw you some curve balls.
And my opinion is I would like to see the budget meeting happen to see how we could cut expenses um and that sort of thing so we have a bigger picture. >> Mr. Mayor, I'm giving it back to you. >> Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim. Council Mayor
Mayor >> or Council Member Willis. Uh we received a lot of information tonight that none of us have had an opportunity to fully go through. Um, that was the reason for possibly doing a workshop. But I did
speak with uh, Supervisor of Elections Boanic, and if we were to put it on the ballot, we have to have the ballot uh, language into Supervisor of Elections by August 17th
to make to make the uh, November election. And we have a I think it's a 75word or or so limitation on that item if it were to be on the ballot.
So it's going to make it a little difficult with the time, but we just need to be aware of it. Uh but I I'm anxious to hear from anybody in the audience tonight and that was part of the reason
to keep it on there as a discussion um so we could give everybody the opportunity to speak and uh I would personally I would like to go through all of this information that we asked for. We received the uh sensitivity analysis by the uh finance department
and I appreciate that Joey. Thank you very much. and uh it at least gives us a little little something more realistic maybe to to consider. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I do have a question, >> Council Member King.
>> Thank you. Um how how long, this being my first goaround with the budgeting process, how long will it take us to firm up a budget and will it be will it overlap that date for the referendum question? I mean will we be timely with
that or >> if I can address that uh the first the first budget workshop is scheduled for July 21st which is your next council meeting. Uh we will meet in advance of that in budget work budget workshop fashion. Uh so I think the question uh
for this council tonight is when would you like to workshop paid parking in relation to that budget workshop? would you prefer to do the budget workshop and then no you know what whatever you find out then you can carry that information
over to a paid parking workshop and I will remind council that we plan on having individual one-on-one meetings with all of you in advance of the July 21st budget workshop so when you get into workshop you will already have a
good um sense of where we are headed from a staff perspective So, >> but we still don't know whether or not we will have accomplished the budget prior to that date. >> Correct. >> That supervisor of
>> you you can work the workshop the budget as many times as you feel you need to at some point in time. The millillage will need to be established and that happens in August, right? >> And then uh a budget will be uh adopted at some point during the two meetings in September. And I would ask the clerk how
long it would take to work up a referendum for the ballot in November in relation to that. >> Oh no. Um could I make a little correction? We have a regular meeting on July the 21st. >> Correct. >> We have the first budget hearing on
September the 3rd, but we have no budget workshops scheduled to my knowledge. >> Yeah. So the timeline uh presented by the finance department is a workshop for July 21st and that's what what we need to discuss this evening as far as this council
goes. >> Yes, >> that workshop would be at 5:00 p.m. on the night prior to as our city clerk said the 6 p.m. regular. >> Well, you have to establish that. Okay. We don't have a budget workshop, I'm
afraid. I'm trying to look for um the what is it the dates for reserve meetings if necessary. I'm pulling that up on the screen. Um >> okay. So the calendar we approved. Yeah. I see
it shows the first budget workshop is on July 14th. I would have to >> July the we have the budget workshop at 5:00 on July the 21st 2020 >> plus budget workshop >> right >> July 21st >> oh
>> oh you're right you're right >> when everything has to be >> oh I see >> yeah right >> okay I followed thank you >> yeah okay >> I mean got this >> so the deadline per our code which I think
our city manager is going for is the budget su or the budgets are received to the council by June by the end of this month. >> June 30th. >> June 30th. And it's your intent prior to the council receiving them to have a a
workshop or you're okay with sending them out and then um having a workshop after. >> Sure. Let the council get a look at it on June 30th. Again, we'll have an advanced one-on-one meeting sometime between June 30th and July 21st.
>> And then with the the budget in hand and the one-on-one meeting, you'll you will be prepared for the budget workshop on the 21st. >> Okay. So, we're okay with the July 21st as being the first budget workshop
publicly, assuming, you know, we can all meet and hold the one-on ones prior to that. Yes. >> Okay. City Manager, any comments in regards to council member King's question or
response to that further? I guess I should ask council member King >> to answer your question. >> Well, council council member um Willis gave a date that he got from U. Supervisor of elections Bobic. >> Yes. >> Of of what was it again? August 17th.
August. So my question is, are we going to have the budget wrapped up and with a bow by then so that we can determine whether or not we need to put that on the referendum >> as a referendum question? That's my question. >> So if the I don't know if the those two
are related, if the goal is to put paid parking on the referendum, is that contingent upon the budget >> or it sounds like we're hearing the council wants to do referendum? No. Well, that's not my view on it. My my
view on it is is if the budget show if if during the budgeting process we we see we really could use some revenue from paid parking and but we want to put it out to the community to have them decide it. Um will we be done with the
budgeting process like I said with a big bow on it before that August 17th date? No. Okay. So, it's a moot point. >> It's a moot point. Okay. Well, I think I can't speak for Mayor Pro Tim Jackson, but I think if I heard her correctly, I see you, Council Member Shriek, was that
we will it's not so much that we have a, you know, bow on and a done budget to to by the the date that council member Willis shared, August 17th from the supervisor. It's that we don't hold that workshop
prior to at least having those discussions. And we won't know until we get there. For all we know, we meet, we all receive our budget books on June 30th. We meet uh July 21st, and within a couple hours, we're like,
>> we absolutely want to put this on the referendum. Now, that might be highly improbable, but we won't know. And I agree, if we were at that point where it's done and ready to go, we would absolutely know by then. But we might
know very quickly within that budget the first budget workshop that we could do it. Let's just assume that for a second that like at the end of that meeting on the July 21st we said we absolutely want to put this out which I think meets your
we have our first budget workshop. We decide on the 21st we want to put this out to referendum. we would then have to come back and meet with enough time to meet whatever the technical requirements are of Mr. Boanic's deadline is probably a formal
submission and some format. City attorney could probably uh help us. We've done this before. Um I don't know if that's even let's assume that the 21st without creating any new dates we come out of that meeting and we say we want to go to referendum. Is it
reasonable to think that in what is that 3 weeks we could actually have a deliverable to meet the requirements of the supervisor of elections? Reasonable. I think we met every day anything's possible. But is that
>> well and we could literally make it a moot a true moot. If that's not possible, then >> we could literally approve the in the July meeting before the budget meeting the referendum and have them hold it until after
the budget meeting. But for me, I like seeing a big picture and I already know that staff has gone in and made cuts to expenses, but I don't know what all those are, >> right? and I don't know what we're looking at and we're getting a little bit late of a start because of uh
circumstances this year that we're all working on. And so in order to be ready, we could have the referendum ready in the end of July and then when we have the budget meeting, like you said, Mr. Mayor, we may walk in there and go, "Oh,
yeah, we need to get this to voters. Let them vote on it because we're in need of this referendum." Mhm. >> Um, you know, it's that or we choose for our citizens instead of giving it on a referendum.
>> Um, but I mean, I'm I'm willing as one of five >> for the citizens to vote on this. But I think that they need to be aware of uh our budget for the the year the coming year and all we have all our ducks in a
row about what we're looking at because it's hard to vote just to to charge when this is such a hot topic without knowing the situation knowing where we stand. Council member Shy, >> I guess expanding on that, I'd like to
see the referendum anyway, whether we need the money or not this year. Maybe it's kind of a vague language. We say we the voters authorized the city, not necessarily with anything specific dates or anything like that, but if we don't need it this year, get it on the
ballot in November and we might need it next year and at least we'll kind of be authorized by the voters to do it. Can I >> Does that make s I'm not sure I'm fully follow Are you >> I guess we have a referendum either whether we need to determine during the budget season whether we need the money
or not. Maybe we put a referendum out there and that answers the questions if if we need to do it next year this budget we don't have to go ahead and do a referendum again next year. We just got it out of the way. Hey just ask the people what do you think pay for parking or not pay for parking. >> Well I see you're saying the risk is low
just to pursue it this year. >> Yeah. And then, okay, I I do want to go to our city attorney at some point, but I see council member King. >> Yep. If we put it out for referendum, we'd better be dogone sure that the residents
understand all of the facts because right now they're running rampant on social media with all kinds of misinformation and all kinds of whatifs, etc. I think you don't put out a referendum, kind of like the property
tax thing, unless you tell the people, here's the pluses, here are the minuses, you give them all the facts. If you have to spoon feed them, you do it because otherwise they >> they're not going to be making an
informed choice. I think I think I think having the budget figures and and and keeping being transparent with the community about the budgeting process and where we are with it is is one giant step toward making
them understand what why why we're requesting this of them. So So I just caution, you know, that we need to educate them and keep them informed about what's going on and why why we're moving in this direction. We certainly
don't want to adopt something to put it on the ballot that does not come with >> that goes down >> at least a strong position of the council. >> Exactly. Oh, and a strong position for either way. >> I mean, so that they're making an informed decision. >> Okay.
>> City attorney, anything you need to comment on there? Um first um procedurally to adopt a referendum question the city council would have to adopt an ordinance. The ordinance as uh
Councilman Willis indicated you know would set forth the referendum question has to be maximum 15 words for a title maximum 75 words for the description of the of the referendum. This type of referendum for paid parking
is not mandated by law. So this is not a mandated referendum. This would be what I would consider a non-binding referendum. So the non-binding referendum would have to describe what it is you're asking the
voters to say yes or no to because the referendums are a yes or a no, right? So to the extent that you don't have any meat on the bones on paid parking, you may not be informing the the the voters
about details that you would ask you would want them to vote upon to give you guidance. Um you could generally put a refer non-binding referendum out there but it without any meat uh it would be very
general um because at the end of the day when you get the voting results on a non-binding referendum really it is a bowl of tea leaves for you all because the final decision on moving forward with paid parking simply requires a
legislative act of the council which this council has the authority to adopt. without a referendum. So you you you would be using again this ref type of referendum as a non-binding bowl of tea leaves to help guide you on the decision
on paid parking and how much you want to give the voters um to educate them on on your non-binding question is going to be limited to 15word title and a 75word description
>> and no guarantee that people will read it. >> Right. I mean to to be educated. >> Don't misconstrue it. It's nonbinding, right? So, um >> um I have a question for you
uh city attorney. We had I'd asked about in perpetuity for for um making the uh residents free free status as far as their permit. And you said we couldn't just make it
unending. Could we put in a clause that gave a time period that no uh future law can supersede of like 25 years in the in in a resolution if we ended up doing
paid parking that says if you're homesteaded in the city, you'll get free or a resident of the city, you know, homesteaded or resident, you get free parking at the beach for 25 years. And
at that 25 year period at you know 20 you know whatever the date is um it will go before council for an extension or and define the terms of that. Could we put a time frame on that if we ended up
doing that ended up doing parking? >> Yeah. Well again you're you're subject to whatever the city future city council decides right. So in terms of you setting a term >> for it, that term can be, you know,
amended by future city councils, the only way to really I don't want to say tie the hands of the city council, but to direct the city council to do something a certain way would be to put it in the city charter, right? So that I mean paid parking in
the city charter, I mean I've never seen anything like that. um you know that's more of a legislative act that councils uh can approve, they can unwind it, they can modify it, you know, future councils. So, I I don't can't really,
you know, >> it's amazing to me that we we can't put a time frame on giving our residents free beach access, but our economic overlay development
district doc supersedes our old code. And it's because of the state and SB 180, our hands are like this with development. It's just amazing to me that's how our legislation >> council I mean the council could adopt some sort of term you know put a term on
it right or duration um in the ordinance when you get around to actually adopting the paid parking ordinance but my point is >> someone could change it in the future >> the council can change it in the future >> but I I think what we would put in right
if we put something and said till 2040 we're going to do something right a future council would have to undo that right it puts them in a position that they would have to do like you just undone a 15-year intention. We wouldn't want it where they couldn't do that because the opposite could be true. We
could put we could bind the residents for 15 years of something awful. And so you would want to have the ability to come in and it's all subjective to the interest and the will of the people and who's elected at that time. So, I think that that we hear from our attorney, the
charter can be uh very difficult, if not impossible for a council to change if it's put in by the people. It can only be undone by the people, right? And so, the same power that made it happen would make it very difficult on a future council. And I do think that gives that
some merit. We're just talking right now, Council Member King, or >> Yeah. Well, I'm looking at the time and we probably should make I would offer a motion if you want to continue beyond 10:30. >> Yes. >> Are you expecting the motion?
>> I'll make a motion that we extend the meeting for >> um 30 minutes. >> I'll second that motion. >> Okay. Got a motion by Mayor Tim uh Jackson, a second by Council Member King
to extend for 30 minutes, which would take us to 11:54. >> Yeah. Loads, >> y'all. Y'all, what are we going to do? >> Oh, yeah. Let's just round it up to >> 1154. 10:54. Thank you. Um,
any further discussion on the matter? Seeing none, city clerk, >> mayor prom Jackson, >> four, >> council member King, >> four, >> mayor Morrison, >> four, >> council member Shiaki, >> four, >> and council member Willis, >> four. >> Motion to extend to 1054 is approved.
50. We are now continuing the discussion. I think it would be wise first to let's get back to where we are on this item. Not that what we're talking about is not
addressing it directly. I think it absolutely is. and um we had our workshop. The the city staff is looking for direction and instead of I I think
what I what I would like to say in regards to this is and and it came up very direct by council member Shoryak and I think all of us spoke about what the residents Dr. Dr. Roberts is here and talked about
the scope and why are we doing this? What is the intent? And I think that's absolutely important and the the question of what problem are we trying to solve um was stated about reserves, right?
>> And so I've had a chance, we've all met with our city manager and while it might be hard at this time of night, I I don't think it will because we went through it so many times. The problem is reserves, but it's it is a problem,
but it's not, for a lack of better words, the problem. What got us into that circumstance? And I think we can all debate it, but the reasoning doesn't matter as much as
the rationale of you can say it two ways. Revenue was lower than expenses or you could say expenses was higher than revenue, right? We we all agreed that's deficit. Both of them equal deficit.
In the audit report that we received in response to management for no folks who are here with us today, it was stated that the reasoning was because the tax rate was not set high enough which in other words states and my interpretation
is that the deficit occurred because we did not have enough revenue. That's one way to look at it. in discussions with this council through the years and understanding it. I think
that the the budget that we passed was intended to be balanced and the expenses were higher than the actual
revenue we passed. The the the presented revenue appeared to be okay, but the actual right was was not there. when we when we back into it. So the way I interpret it is our expenses were too high and as our mayor pro Tim said
that to me is the issue and so if we go okay reserves are low why are reserves low expenses are high. I want to say this before going any further on high expenses. I think parking revenue is a
very reasonable way to make money. I really do is and I think that many of the residents and I'm a resident. I go to the beach. I don't want meters. I don't want that. I love the culture and the freedom of our beach. I love being able to walk down. When a friend comes
over, I say, "I'll go park my car down at the beach. You can park in my driveway." I like contractors coming to the our neighborhoods and being able to park the same thing. That's our our freedom today. There's no codes that would prohibit that. Yes, we are the
last, but at the same time, I'm like, well, it is uh as stated in the city world, lowhanging fruit. I do think that the majority of them from the data we've learned about and just the obvious reality that the majority of residents
do not park at the beach. That those are rare. We walk, we have means, we know people. It's not going to impact residents. And I think the full intentions of this council has been to figure out a way if not explicitly to pretty much eliminate all costs on
residents if not make it no-brainer minimum. So a lot of the noise that we hear, right, is just really like you'll read an issue and you're like that's we're going to address that. You'll hear another issue. We're going to address that. The one thing uh is the math. And
as we got tonight, as Council Member Willis said last last meeting, we really requested some things. Sensitivity analysis. I just want the record to state I think we got that tonight. The other thing that we had requested was the proposal that was submitted. I don't
know if we've got that yet. Um, but I think there was a proposal submitted to our city staff. I'm still fumbling through what we received tonight. Do we have that? Okay. So, I think that's crucial, but in
the end, we we'll see if it's needed. We talked about a boilerplate contract. This is me going back to the meeting and listening to it uh and trying to I was literally writing it out just sort of like what are the because a lot of the questions will come down to what the
contract states. We talked about privacy. We talked about revenue. Um I think having an idea of some sort of we got the proposal is one thing but what are the terms and conditions? What is your basic contract is the third thing.
The fourth thing was asking for a community that is receiving anywhere in the United States similar services that they're proposing to us. Not proximity. We don't need a community that's near us. who's got one device
as close to us as possible. Uh and then with last item, the fifth item was data mapping. I think that was that was requested, which do we have something that would help with that? >> It it's irrelevant at this point. I think if we don't have it now, we can
pursue getting it. I'm not necessarily expecting it. I'd feel better about making a decision which ultimately I'm saying the workshop at a minimum I would want to have those items before any
workshop and as as far as having a workshop before uh any type of budget meeting. I agree with our mayor prom. I think that we have time to get these items because I do think we need to take a a look at expenses. And so those were the five big
items. Some of the major questions from residents as we all heard uh which was I would call the the sixth thing that accumulated a series and once we get the minutes on that and and I think approve it we'll we'll be able to better
understand it. But my understanding is, you know, issues about residents um the the representation of rep residents. Dr. Robert talked about, you know, we're saying I think we all agree that homestead does
not represent residents. If it was referendum, homesteaders don't vote, not only homesteaders, but all residents. You could be renting here for one year. If you're registered to vote, you are not required to own a home here. And so, I think we all agree with that. It does
represent a community of more than just uh homeowners. Renters love this community and and it's not an indication of anything less. Um we talked about affordability, questions around uh
you know, being able to to to pay for it, access to a smartphone. I raised questions on privacy. We talked through that and some of the concerns there. Had a great talk with our city manager who helped understand a little bit about that. The um exemptions for contractors
as I stated was brought up. Volunteer events we addressed like the uh co planning. I think we got a good response for our city manager on that. Um and then you know what are the the the comments from uh Mr. Rearen who talked
about uh you know the the real cost of going to the beach the uh intangible costs and he talked about the joy of going to the beach and and that really fits into a lot of the comments
I'm seeing to you the culture um and a lot of the things that Mr. Campbell, Pat Campbell wrote about and and spoke to us about the scope was hit hard, the hidden cost, resident guest. We all sat in that meeting. We all heard. We can all go
back and listen to that meeting. I'm not going to go through every single one of them, but I did want to address kind of some of the open-ended questions before we would want to make a decision in addition to even if we had every one of
these answered as the mayor prom said and I I think we've got to look at expenses. And so to to wrap up, I'm not going to keep rambling on. I actually wrote out what I wanted to say on the
record and so I'm going to read it and I'll be done. I believe we should pause the discussion on paid parking. Not because I impose it. In fact, I believe there is reasonable argument that visitors who use our beaches should
contribute toward the cost of maintaining them. If after doing our homework, paid parking is necessary, then I am willing to have that conversation. But today, I
believe we are focused on the wrong problem. Our reserve shortfall is not the problem. It is the symptom. The real problem is that over many years, our
local government took on expenses, facilities, capital improvements, debt, and obligations that residents at that time who are elected here today on this council addressed and residents who
are with us today addressed as well without fully accounting for the long-term operating costs Today, this council has inherited this council has inherited many of those obligations and
is being asked to solve problems that we did not create. Some in the community have suggested that our deficit exists because taxes were not increased. I, as mayor, reject that premise. The
deficit did not occur because we failed to we failed to not collect enough money. The deficit occurred because government spent more. Our local government spent more than it could sustainably afford. If we immediately
pursue new revenue before addressing expenses, we are effectively agreeing that the answer was always to charge more than rather spend less. In other words, we are agreeing with the statement in the audit report on the
reason that we've failed is that only strengthens the argument that uh was stated which I think I reject and I believe uh many in the community if not this council as a whole rejects. So can
the questions we need to ask is can services be delivered more efficiently? Should some operations be restructured? Can partnerships with the private sector reduce costs? Can we pursue revenue sharing opportunities with the port or
tourism related funding sources before creating new local fees? Dr. Roberts had mentioned vaguely, but I think I know what she meant. pursuing other revenue sources that have been discussed in the past and I I perceived it as these
discussions we've had. These conversations will be difficult but leadership requires difficult decisions and I believe each one of us have it. So I am proposing that we pause on the search for parking revenue. Let's
focus on reducing expenses, restoring our reserves, and building a sustainable model for the future. Let's rethink how our local community operates. Let's focus on core services and examine whether certain functions are better
delivered through partnerships, private operators, or alternative models that reduce long-term cost to the taxpayers. And if big if after making those tough decisions, we still need additional
revenue then we can have that discussion honestly and transparently. The question is not whether paid parking is a good idea. The question is whether we have done everything possible to control expenses before asking anyone to pay
more. I believe we owe the public that effort first. So, I hope that we can address the cause before we address the symptom. Let's put our financial house in order. Then, and only then should we consider asking for additional revenue.
None of these statements are directed to anyone in this room. In fact, it's the latter. It's people that we've already made to it's not people. It's collectively a group of people that we've made decisions about. And I want
to say that we have certain departments that that could be absolutely underfunded and we've got certain departments that could be overfunded. So I am not speaking of an acrosstheboard problem
here. I think there are legitimate needs within our city within departments. But when we look at the budget, that will speak for itself. And until then, as our mayor Pertim said, I don't think we can go to the public. We've seen the
resistance. I could take them all one at a time and argue with all of them and go, "Let me tell you why you're wrong on that." But but taking a step back and after having an honest conversation with with myself, our community, our city manager,
and listening to those residents and reading hundreds of comments, there's a few that really stood out to me and they started attacking us. And those very few were the same ones that made decisions that put us in this
place. And I'm going, you know what? Why don't we go right after? >> We're not going to swallow that pill. >> Right. >> That that is and it's no one here. It is. You are not going to sit on the
outside and say, "How dare you, you know, raise, let's go and address the problem. We have it. I'm not going to point the finger. I think we need to address it. And I'm not sure what the problem is. We
might walk away and go, "No, there's nothing else." I'm just saying it seems to me we should absolutely go and take a hard look at that. I haven't said anything that I think our mayor Bertim didn't say, but uh that's where my heart
is and I hope this council seriously considers. Those are my final words. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. >> Well said. >> Thank you. So, I I I don't I think as far as the item goes, no action is
needed. I agree with a workshop. I think we've raised another layer of when that workshop occurs. Um I'm not sure we can meet this referendum. I do agree with council member Shoryak on putting it out, but I
hear council member King on the risk of putting it out before we we're ready if it's something we truly want and need. And I do lean that way. I really do think paid parking is is a good thing because I do think the majority are uh
tourists. Um, I just I think we're talking about waiting potentially it would be a year be another year and we could do it right and be successful then rush it and lose it. That'd be I guess the cost if we don't meet that deadline. We're talking
about November 2027 which 2026 is a midterm voter turnout's a lot higher >> 27 voter turnouts a lot lower. So there are those implications too. >> Or we move forward with it this year for with with residents having a clause for
a longterm period of them getting a free, you know, permit. >> Yep. >> And then putting it on the ballot to continue or not the next November would be another way we could handle it because we have that legislative power to do that if we make it through the
budget meeting and see that that's something that's necessary. But I think I need the big the whole picture, the big picture. Um, just like I asked when we looked at the C5 and was a citizen in those meetings saying, "How much is this
going to cost us to maintain this going forward?" We've got to look at all of those things and have better better real numbers. Uh, because um, you know, estimates don't really quite cut it. And
so for me having that conversation around uh you know once we've had the budget conversation it's going to be more meaningful as to what we can look at. And it also is going to give Sebastian more time and staff more time to give us
projections numbers with the case study that we're saying okay if we charge this much and we have traffic mostly on Friday, Saturdays and Sundays and all of these months it stays packed they can get a
more realistic estimate of what might be in expected out of the the gen revenue generation. for it. So, I think that's um I agree with you, Mr. May, >> and I'm willing to put in the time in
the meetings. It would be intense, but we could do it if we want to get it on this referendum. As Council Member Willis has said, the deadline and our city attorney talked about the non-binding. I mean, if we want to push for this, I'm willing to do it, but I
don't think we would move forward until we we can see it. And our city staff is working hard to get those numbers. We obviously know the setbacks. I don't want to put more pressure on them, but um I'm just saying I I'm open and I will
lead the charge on parking revenue um on what I believe uh as far as for the community, but I'm not just punting to 2027. I know we've put in hard work, but I think it would be prudent that we have these
questions answered and we have a strong understanding of the budget and then we can we can run full speed. But with it being June, we're a little over a month out. So, >> Mr. Mayor, >> yes. >> We have 15 minutes left.
>> I'm finished. >> Okay. >> You have nine minutes left. >> I think I rounded it up to 11, didn't we? >> Zoom out. We've got uh we're at 9.4. We've got a discussion on or an action on 9.5 city manager performance metrics
and then we've got one public hearing item. I think it would be prudent to at least due to the advertising to at least try to get to that public hearing item if we can. Um do we want to take no
action and seek our city attorneys if our intent is to take no action? City attorney. Uh do we need to make any motion or can we just proceed uh to the next item? >> Um you can proceed to the next item if
you're taking no action. >> We can keep it simple and go right on. >> Yeah. >> Any opposed? Well, I don't want to I'm not forcing a position on it, but >> was this for item 9.6? >> 9.4.
>> It's actually we're at 9.4 4 right now, but 9.5 I want to just look over to our city manager and take his guidance on handling that. No, we want to do 9.6. >> Can I can I make a suggestion? City manager.
>> Um, we had discussed this with him. This was in regards to your uh reviews and Okay. >> Um, the city manager and I discussed him meeting with us one on-one quarterly. Is that correct? every six months.
>> There were a couple options presented. >> Yeah, I liked the one where he discussed that we could meet with him in November because his review is due in dis in February and that way goal setting can be
>> um addressed six months ahead because you need to give someone the ability to meet those goals. They need to know what they are to be able to meet them. So, I kind of like that option. Sure. >> Um, and now I'll let you >> Well, thank you. In the interest of time, I mean, this item can be tabled
until next month if if you'd like to. I mean, essentially what you're going to do is schedule a workshop to set the goals and objectives that you have for me. And Mayor Prom referenced one of several options that, you know, you can consider when it comes to evaluating the
um accomplishment of those goals and objectives. But for tonight, if you want to table this to July's meeting, uh I would recommend that you definitely schedule a workshop by August then. So talk about this in July to schedule a workshop in August and then we can discuss the options from there.
>> Okay, just to be clear, we are moving on from 9.4. >> Okay, as stated in 9.5, um and our city manager, what do we want to do here? I make a motion that we table the uh the subject until our next meeting in July.
>> Which item? 9.5. >> Item 9.5, city manager performance metrics. >> Thank you. Got a motion by council member King, a second by council member Shoryak. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, city clerk, >> mayor Tim Jackson,
>> four. >> Council member King, >> four. Mayor Morrison >> four. >> Council member Shiaak >> four. >> And council member Willis >> four. >> Record show 9.5. It's adopted to be tabled.
Moving on to our public hearing item 9.6. This is the first reading and public hearing of ordinance number 03206 repeal of the community appearance board. Before going to our city attorney, I want to let know that this is a public hearing item and we do have
a card on it. So after our city attorney reads, we'll ask any technical questions. We'll go to the public, come back to the council. City attorney. >> Okay. First reading of ordinance number 03-2026, an ordinance of the city council of the city, Cape Canaveral, Bvoulevard County, Florida, abolishing the community
appearance board, reassigning the community appearance uh review process to be performed cons concurrent with the site plan or building permit process as applicable, adopting conforming amendments, providing for the repeal of prior and consistent ordinances and
resolutions, incorporation into the code, severability, and an effective date. So, >> that's uh you know it's his first reading and uh we don't have anybody from the community development department on this one, but um I'd be happy to give you a quick summary.
Um it was requested that um the city council consider um abolishing the community appearance board similar to what the council did with the board of adjustment and then consolidate those responsibilities um for for um streamlining with the site
plan review process. And if a site plan is not uh you know concurrently um necessary with a community appearance review then it would be done concurrent with the building permit process. So this ordinance would streamline the
process and um incorporated into site plan or the building permit uh process depending on um you know the the the issue. So, this ordinance does not revise the community of parents standards that are uh that have been on
the books for for a number of years. Um I can tell you from what staff relayed to me um that the city is having um issu serious issues with um board membership
and I think the cab is down technically to just one member. Um, so that's impacting the ability to uh conduct that business. So the the thought was um you know by presenting this ordinance for um for the
city council's quick review um you know that would solve the the recruitment process and um staff relayed to me that um and this would also you know limit or reduce the the the workload and the time
and expense to actually present agenda items, conduct meetings after hours etc. So it has a you know a small I think financial um uh benefit as as well. Um so I' I'd be happy to answer any
technical questions this um if the council approves this on first reading then um it's scheduled to go to the planning and zoning board for review and recommendation um at its meet meeting coming up here in early July. The thought process was, you
know, since it involves the potential abolishment of a board, uh the feedback from the council, I was thought that we get some feedback first before presenting such an ordinance to the planning and zoning board. So that's why the ordinance is being presented to you
on first reading before P&Z recommendation. Mayor, >> yes. Thank you, city attorney. Any questions for our city attorney or city staff? >> No question, Mr. Mayor, but the time is running nigh again. >> Let's extend it.
>> I'll make a I'll make a motion to extend for 15 minutes. >> I'll second that. >> Got a motion to extend for 15 minutes. Any further or by Mayor Tim Jackson and a second by Council Member King. Any further discussion?
>> Seeing none, that will take us to what is that? I'm scared to speak. 110. >> Bless you. >> But the records show the council's got my back and stated basic elementary math of 11:08
at this hour. Thank you. Any further discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, >> mayor prom Jackson for council member King >> four. Mayor Morrison >> four. >> Council member Shiaak >> four. >> And council member Willis
>> four. So, we were at any questions after our city attorney read and explained the summary of the ordinance for him or city staff. Seeing none, got a card. Dr. Roberts, please come forward. When you're ready, take your time.
And if anyone else would like to speak on this item, this is a public hearing item. First reading of ordinance number 032026. More than welcome to come forward after Dr. Roberts is finished. Floor is yours. Um, one of the concerns that I'm just
expressing the the value of the community appearance board in the past has been in terms of its early years was really to look at the harmony of colors, design, etc. with the neighbors in that particular area of whatever proposal was
being given to the board to look at. And it's not clear to me in what's being proposed as the alternative to the community appearance board as to whether how that will be addressed, who will be taking care of that. And in my observation, we went through a period of
time with the city kind of almost deactivated the advisory boards and that includes community parents, beautifification, etc. Some boards that really had some very meaningful citizen participation and value added. And I think what's worrying me now is if we we're going to
eliminate the community appearance board, you know, and give that assignment to another capability for the city, but I'm not real clear that they're going to take on these broader appearance of the city roles that were envisioned originally with the board. And you may remember that we in the
visioning effort um back in the 2010 time period, we did look at um the facades of this of the city businesses um in terms of coming up with some kind of a maybe a cultural um
implication for the city through whatever facade was decided. And it to me the community appearance board was dealing with that that type of thing. And so when we eliminate it, I'm not sure that we're assuming that another capability is going to take that type of
review on as part of the responsibilities they would have. So that's my first concern because it's not clear in at least what I'm reading, but I may not have read it to the point that I should have because I'm just looking at the agenda. I'm not looking at the
back here. Um, and secondly, to me, it's suggesting a healthy review by the um, city council, city staff of our advisory boards altogether because I'm just really worried that we're losing the sense of their original purpose. Maybe they're not to be here, maybe they are,
but I'm just sensing as a long-term resident that we're losing the intent of the advisory boards that were originally created. And I just think a thoughtful review of the boards would be extremely timely. Um it it's just like you were
mentioning uh Mr. Mayor that the lack of resident interest in serving is sometimes resulting from this. So I just think that it's a I know we've got a lot to do right now as a as a city and certainly you as council and staff. I think there's a healthy review of our
advisory boards reactivation or initiating some um to where they really have an intended clear purpose and value added. So, I'm glad to see the council taking on some of these decision roles. So, I just wanted to compliment you all for doing that like with PNC coming
forward with your site plans so the residents are not u blindsided by some of these developments. So, anyway, thank you very much for the opportunity to comment. And I apologize for not reading the ordinance. It may actually clear clarify some of those questions I had.
>> Thank you very much. Anyone else would like to speak on this public hearing item? Ordinance 03 20226. Seeing none, we'll go ahead and close public participation. Bring it back to the council. Council, I just want to
initially respond to the public comments we heard from Dr. Roberts and directly to Dr. Roberts who's with us here today. Um, all I got to say is amen. I think you know that I'm going to be very open and transparent here. Uh when I ran, one
of the the points that I stated to residents and I said this to our city manager was that public input had diminished and that the question was well what is
evidence of that? And I pointed out that may not be perfect but one example my theory was that the board participation the number of boards back when you served in prior had actually
diminished and so here I am today behind the dis honored to be here and we are literally abolishing boards so I don't feel good about this. But as I'm working through it and I'm and we
haven't made the decision, the proposal is there. We made the decision of one, which that one was never one that I took issue. But correct me if I'm wrong, the board was the beautifification board. And I think the role and intent to your
first point of that board, I think we all want that board. What happened was that the that board was abolished. It was repurposed to the community appearance board. The economic overlay district was created and they were given
significant responsibility on major projects i.e. 150 room minimum hotels that stressed a lot of the residents out and caused and who approved this and it it it was a weak answer for the council to go
oh the board the board approved. That wasn't us the abort. And we and I think we've been really focused on trying to get the liability and accountability back to us. Is abolishing it the process? I'm going to dig into this one. We're
going to have another reading. I think abolishing the process at a minimum is that it would go through that board. But I am with you. I do not want to lose residents giving advice on those things
that you talked about within our city cuz there are so many residents that are passionate about the be the just the beautifification of the city. giving the council feedback, true advice on the aesthetics of buildings, but prior to
that is just the aesthetics of our public property, our spaces, beach crossovers, and those things. And so before this uh the second reading, it would be good if we had a chance to get together and to address your your
two points on if this is going to abolish all functions of their roles. Who is advising the council on that niche of beautifification? What was the old
responsibilities of the beautifification board? And my understanding was we had a beautifification text, we had a fire or beautifification millillage, we had a fire millillage, we had a police mill, we had a library millillage, we had like five millages. Those were all
consolidated into general government and a lot of the boards. It's Joanne Muny. I'm just naming old names of folks who were so passionate and got involved in so many others who really cared sort of had a distaste and a new direction was
set to respect the decision of that council. But I always thought that was special what I would call old Cape Canaveral that was turning a leaf. My hope is that this council we can work together and restore that function.
But the priorities what I'm reading today are very high for me on the procedures of this board. That's all I want to say. Um if the best path on this first reading, I think we should move my opinion is unless council has further
discussion, we move forward this. But before second reading, if it makes sense to amend it to maybe with our city attorney's advice, can we should we keep it alive and repurpose other functions? Would that save us time and be more efficient? Rename it, whatever. That'd
be fine. Or do we just start over? Either way, that's all I got to say. I am in support of this, but I hear um Dr. Roberts loud and clear and I share the same concern and spoke with our city manager about it. So, if we need to move forward, I know it's late. I'm happy to
do that. >> Are you ready to entertain a motion, Mr. Mayor? If there's no further discussion, seeing none, please. >> Okay. Uh well, I'll move to uh consider the approval of ordinance number 03-2026
um on its first reading. >> I'll second. >> Got a motion by council member King, a second by council member Willis. Any further discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, >> mayor prom Jackson >> four. Council member King
>> four. >> Mayor Morrison >> four. >> Council member Shiaak >> four. >> And council member Willis >> four. Let the record show item 9.6 first reading public hearing ordinance number 03206 passes 50 which takes us to the
end of our public hearing items. We have an item for discussion that was uh consensus was taken to add on. We'll call that 10.1. Respecting the format of our agenda to
discuss the 250ear anniversary. This is a write in agenda item. It would not appear. It was added on. Council member King. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. um had a conversation with our city manager uh last week during our one-on-one in which
we discussed the fact that um there is very very little being done to observe and recognize the 250th anniversary of our country and um I understand that staff is very very
worked and so I thought well let's let's have the council take this on. It doesn't have to be anything big, but it can be something memorable to, you know, again, observe the 250th birthday. So,
um I happen to uh I put together a group of a list of things that we might be able to do and um I just happened to mention it to Laura Gandandy who was outside when I was leaving the city hall and she said, "Oh, I've got all all
kinds of ideas." So on her own on her own initiative, she put together a list which you have in front of you of different things that we could be doing now at this late hour. I don't think we want to go through this list and dis
discuss this. But if we could if Huh? What? >> I just I just saw one I want to discuss. >> You do? >> No. >> Excuse me. >> Okay. So we're looking at the time here on the clock. I think we've got three minutes left on this particular motion.
So, Mr. Mayor, what would you like to do about this situation right now? >> Follow your lead. >> Okay. Um, Council Member King, can I jump in real quick? >> Please do. Um, one of our vendors about two and a half weeks ago contacted me
and he was surprised that we didn't have something on our website for the uh, America 250 and he called me and he said, um, you know, Mayor Pro Tim Jackson, I'm I'm wanting to check on you guys cuz you always have everything
going. I said, we really have full plates right now and that kind of thing. he has offered up a uh to bring their grill trailer over and pay for hamburgers and hot dogs if we give a
headcount. So, um if we decide that we can do something and if it's a picnic situation, I've got that covered. I think that I could probably get a couple of the restaurants to donate lettuce and
tomatoes and condiments, things like that. Um, Tom has a Sam's membership, so we got paper plates covered, right, Tom? Um, >> we're looking at the clock, too. I I don't want to I don't >> Five minutes.
>> All right. Okay. All right. So, it sounds like sounds like you've you've got some balls in the air that can help us with this. Okay. May I suggest that you take a look at the memo that Laura Thank you, Laura,
very much. uh put together and also she designed a flyer that we could use >> as part of our um time is of the essence tonight and also for this. We've got two weeks to pull this together. And I I'm
wondering if we should have a workshop to discuss it as soon as possible so that we can get our affairs in order. We can decide what we want to do and then move forward. and I will need to check and make sure, you know, based on what date we do this
with the vendor, but he was really wanting to help. So, do we need to have another meeting? >> I think we do. >> And we're running out of time. Yes. I think during normal work hours for our city staff, if if our city manager would be fine. >> Well, my question that motion of a time
>> Well, and my question is this. Does a city manager does city staff who I know is stressed have time to assist with this? >> We will make time to um because I mean I'll order things, coordinate things.
I'll volunteer up my time to help >> because it's important to me. It's important to our city. >> Sure. >> I know. I'm sure I'm sure Tom will go to Sam's >> Councilman. Sure. He's like the greatest shopper
ever. That's why I keep saying that and I'm sure count. So I think that my point is I'm willing as one of five to jump in and help if it puts stress on staff. >> Well, we're here to help. I think the question is is do you need to workshop
to discuss what you're going to do? Uh and if you do, when is that workshop going to take place? And uh we can have staff be present for that workshop to fac help facilitate these conversations. Yeah. I don't have to go to work until Saturday, so I'm free. >> And you have public advertising
requirements to meet. >> Yes. >> Or a workshop. Yeah. >> So, let's start there. What would be the soonest that our city clerk, if we confirm tonight, could advertise? I think 48 hours would be >> right
>> minimum. And I'm not >> That's what I'm told. >> Out of turn here. They would have to speak. >> What? We're at Tuesday. >> I know. >> Well, I mean this Friday. >> This Yeah. At the >> absolute soonest.
>> If a if a decision was made to meet this Friday, city manager, would I would that be >> absolutely >> coordinating with our city clerk. >> Okay. >> Now, assuming I've got a I've got a leave, but I might even be able to dial
in if it's later. Okay. So, let's do um >> let's make it early Friday. >> Yeah, I get later in the afternoon. I could meet earlier. >> I will say we have coffee with the city manager at 10:00 a.m. That goes from 10 to 11. >> Okay.
So, what would be most convenient for you, city manager, post 11 or prior to 10? Um I don't know how I mean I'm available as and we can have staff doesn't come in until 8:30, >> right?
>> Um and um I'll need to duck out next door for the meeting at 10:00, >> right? >> If you want to do 11 if that's not >> 11:00 is fine. How about the Let's Let's pull the group here. 11 o'clock on Friday morning here at city hall.
>> I would have to dial in. I have plans. I need to extend the meeting 10 minutes. >> Oh, that's right. >> I think if we have a few, we're we're fine. I mean, if we all can't be here, but it's crucial, I think, that >> you're there and I'll be there 11:00 Friday here.
>> Here, >> here >> and not at the Cape Center. >> Well, coffee with city managers at the Cape Center at 10. >> Well, I was thinking, would it be easier to just >> do it at the Cape Center? >> You mean right when that wraps up? Oh, that would be fine. >> Your preference. Maybe the public will be there still to participate.
>> City manager will already be there. >> Either or. I think we stay flexible. Yeah. But for advertising, you need to know the location. So, yeah, it's not that easy, is it? >> Um, >> what about recording and all that minutes?
>> Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I mean, I'd be willing to pick up some lunch or I mean, just if it's a few of us. >> Sure. It's right during lunchtime. And >> yeah, chicken tenders at Publix. Everybody likes them. >> Absolutely. Um Okay. So 11 is that the
11 o'clock at the Cape Center. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Cape Center. >> Yeah. >> Friday. >> Does that work? City manager. >> Well, does that work for the clerk to have a workshop at the Cape Center? >> Okay. >> City attorney doesn't need to be there.
>> But he's invited if he likes chicken tenders. >> He's invited. anyone. I'm just thinking like it's it's very short notice. So, >> do we have to take a vote on that or is that just a >> We do. >> Yeah. I think to schedule a meeting, we we should >> uh roll call vote. So, if you want to
move the time, location, yeah, and uh >> day. >> Okay. I make a motion that we meet together this Friday. What is the date? Friday. >> For a workshop. >> For a workshop. um the 19th of June uh
at 11:00 at the Cape Center to discuss America's celebration. >> Excellent. >> Thank you. >> I'll second the motion. >> All right. >> Got a motion by Council Member King, a second by Mayor Prom Jackson.
Any further discussion? City clerk, is that day, time, location, and subject of the meeting sufficient >> for you? >> Thank you. >> Okay, >> city attorney, final check with you. Any issues on the legalities of that
meeting? >> Okay, excellent. Seeing none, city clerk, please call the role. >> Mayor Prom Jackson, >> four. >> Council member King, >> four. >> Mayor Morrison, >> four. >> Council member Shiaak, >> four. and council member Willis
>> four. >> Okay, >> thank you everybody. >> Hey, thank you. >> I'll report it. >> We are now at reports. I got some preliminary notices from council member Willis and mayor prom Jackson if we
could uh extend for five minutes so that we can do reports unless both of them want to forfeit. So otherwise we could adjourn but reports are important. Our city manager needs to >> uh take a hotel room tonight. He's he's going to be doing a U-turn.
>> Make a motion to extend the meeting five minutes. >> I'll second the motion. >> Got a motion by Council Member Willis, second by Mayor Bertim Jackson to extend the meeting for 5 minutes, which would take us to 10:20 or 11:20. >> Oh no.
>> Any further discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, >> mayor prom Jackson, >> four, >> council member King, >> four, >> Mayor Morrison, >> four, >> council member Shiaak, >> four, >> and council member Willis,
>> four. >> Let the record show 50 to extend to 11:20. Reports, we'll start with on council member King. >> Um, I'm going to keep it very, very brief. I I attended the IMO uh this past
month in Bokeh and um found that it was very very informative and um eager to go to the next one either in Orlando. So anyway, that's that's basically it for me. Thank you,
>> Council Member Shory. >> I also attended the EMO training in Boca Raton. was very informative. Learned a lot about how to be a council member. So, and met a lot of people did a lot of networking and very interesting program.
Um, also did meet and greets with the our fire and rescue and the finance department working my way around the city. And also I wanted to throw in there um I guess I I don't know if this is an item for discussion or something but I I know we've addressed Filillmore
and the other half of that is I've always heard Filillmore Jackson. Can I wanted to bring it up can we create an ordinance to to um prohibit people from keeping their boarding their buildings boarded up permanently? I guess is the question. I wanted to see
what the council thought about that briefly. I don't want to make it an agenda item for tonight, but >> I'd be interested in discussing it if you want to add it onto the next agenda. >> Yeah, >> absolutely. >> And then the other thing we've kind of pushed the paid beach
parking out, but parking on our what I somebody coined the term the million-dollar parking lot. That's we have other names for it, but we won't say what they are. But um I'd like to look at using one of these apps to do something to generate some revenue there. And I I'll go ahead and
put that on next month's agenda as well. And another revenue I think we should do that no matter what. That's easy money. And that's it. >> Thank you, >> Council Member Willis. >> Uh yes, I'll just make it this one item.
uh at everyone's place you have a document that is a draft document by the National League of Cities Transportation and Infrastructure Services Committee and I serve on that committee and we had
the opportunity we were addressing the FAA and we had the opportunity to add in um concerns about Cape Canaveral and the Space Coast operations comparator and dealing with
launches and the document um the issues that warrant review. We're asking the FAA general accounting office to re-evaluate the FAA's approach
and it consists of a document that the city manager had mailed on our behalf to the FAA regarding the um the Starship launches and the impact on
the area. And this is just a good opportunity for us to keep our name out there that hey, we're having to deal with this. And I think it would be very good to keep us involved and be part of
the National League of Cities effort to have the FAA re-evaluate how they address impacts on communities. And if I would I'm just asking for consensus about from the council to
proceed with it. >> Um is your role in that committee to proceed with encouraging the FAA to I see here on page 11, >> right? Page 11. Yes. >> Um to proceed with the review.
>> Well, to proceed with uh this addition to their document and submission to the GAO and the FAA, uh I I think upon I mean having a chance to review it, review and understand it, I can speak for myself. If it's
something that's good for the community, I I think I would support it. When is the next meeting? Yes. >> Uh the next meeting I believe will be next week. >> Okay. And so you want you would need to know prior to that. >> Oh yes.
>> Okay. >> Preferably tonight if possible, but >> Oh, no. I understand. >> May I ask a question, >> please? >> Um Council Member Willis, how does this fit in with airports? Because rockets and airports are two different things.
>> Well, no. The FAA, the GAO, General Accounting Office is looking to have the FAA re-evaluate the impact of airports, noise, vibration, pollution, all of that. >> Uhhuh. >> And as it states in here, this example
is not presented as a traditional airport case study. Rather, it serves as a comparator for how rapidly evolving FAA regulated transportation activities may require adaptive life cyclebased review as operations
scale. >> Okay. >> So, it basically would be reiterating to the FAA the previous letter that the city manager sent. >> Okay. that we need to >> and andust. >> Well, and I'm trying to understand what
um you know, National League of Cities is doing here as far as what they're going for by lobbying for this because they lobby for everything. You know, these groups lobby for things and so I want to understand what's going on
before I say, "Oh, sure. I'm good with that." And so, um >> they're they're applying old metrics >> to new technology at airports
and they're wanting GAO is uh we're trying to get the GAO to look at having the FAA update what they do, how they evaluate things, and it just gives us an opportunity to
be part of the conversation. Is it a public meeting or is it recorded? >> No, it's not recorded. >> Okay, >> it's just a committee meeting. >> Yeah,
I think Council Member Willis is looking for uh support, which uh first of all, I want to say thank you. Appreciate that. I think this is a good example of us working together, so we all left hand knows what the right hand's doing. Um, I think some concerns were raised by Mayor
Pro Tim Jackson Jackson, my opinion would be in good faith that proceed and Mayor Pro Tim Jackson or any other council member at this time or any future raises concern they would address that to our city manager or directly if
not respecting Sunshine Law. I think city manager and upon review uh proceed and and go forth and just I think that's just the best way to handle it at this hour. >> Yeah. I just and I'm not going to keep
everyone over this. I mean, whatever the council wants to do on this, I just don't we're we're not termed a, you know, we're not, yes, we're part of FAA regulations and they license the ships for Starship and all of the launch
vessels out there, but we really don't fall in with the airport. What to me is important is for uh spaceport regulations to be put into place. And so I'm not sure lumping with airports is the way to do it. And council member
Willis may be able to communicate that to the board that you're on. That's my only concern because airports have different standards and they're under different federal regulations than launches and even though they report to the FAA. So that's my only thing. But I
think it's good to communicate with DC and I appreciate you doing this, Council Member Willis. I just wonder h what's the best way for us to approach it and what will this help us with as a city
because we're not responsible for the base and we're not responsible for NASA and we're not responsible for you know the spaceport so as a city um and I know I'm seeing the issue changes and all of
that and emerging operations and that kind of thing. So, you know, I'm just I have questions, I guess, and I can ask um the city manager and then he can get with you, Councilman Willis.
>> Well, thank you. But, um it only helps us to remain in the conversation, whatever way we can. It helps us and our and our residents deal with what is coming. So, thank you.
>> Thank you. I I think uh everyone take a look at that. Know that council member Willis is is going to try and keep the city in the conversation on issues that could impact our community. And um as you said, Mayor Pro Tim
Jackson, I think working with our city manager on any concerns on that is the best approach. Otherwise, thank you all and uh Mayor, anything else council member Willis at this time? No sir. Mayor Pro Tim Jackson reports.
>> Mine is going to be very quick because we're running out of steam and it's almost midnight. So, um I have one quick one that I'm going to cover and this is something that has been is out there floating out
online and I want to give an update on it so people know what it what the situation is. Um there's multiple media reports about a 94 unit townhouse, luxury townhouse development in Cape
Canaveral with um launch viewing decks on top >> and um they make it sound like it's a done deal and it's already everything in the works. I did verify with staff the
name of the company. Uh the location is Ever Home Living and he is his founder as you see from the report it says that he grew up in Cocoa Beach. That's not exactly true. He's a developer from
Miami. He develops in the Caribbean. He's also lived in New York. He has he says he surfed Cocoa Beach as a child. So, he has roots to the area. Um, but he is doing this in another location in
Sarasota. Um, and looking at developing, which is what his company does. Um, but I wanted people to know where all of these articles make it sound like this is a done deal in Cape Canaveral, it is.
Um he we have had preliminary meetings with our community development department about building and all of this. No meetings have happened since and no permits have been turned in. This
is the property in between Zerellas and Puerto D del Rio which literally that was property after I investigated I found out it was property that was owned by the condominiums and they were
already approved to build on those lots. So those lots are already have approval for development back from when the condos were built. Okay. So as this goes forward, it's just
something for our citizens to be aware of is that this developer is interested in building out with 94 units. I want to I my concern as I talked about earlier tonight is storm water management and
ensuring that that plant and Thurm Boulevard doesn't go underwater like we did have with the 14 in in December when that was flooded over in that area. We need to make sure that the people in that area can get back and forth to their homes and that the storm water and
and it's probably good for the city to be able to actually get to the wastewater plant which was flooded down that street. So, as we look at this, we're going to have to ensure that we're looking at the storm water requirements for it, but it was approved back with
the original condo development when it was put in. So, that's just a little update so that people will know what the situation is versus everything in the media that makes you sound makes it sound like they're dropping the shovel tomorrow over there. >> Mr. Mayor.
>> Yes, Council Member Willis. >> That that property was never part of the condominium complex because I live there. Um that was part of a assisted living plan development.
um the potential development will infringe upon the existing storm water. Um so that in my opinion, if 94 units were to go in there, they're going to have to significantly alter their storm
water situation. So because what we have now services the property for the condominium complex. So, thank you, Council Member Willis, because that's what sta what I the information I gave
was what staff told me and I knew you'd know because you're involved with that condo. But I'm concerned about the flooding over there as well. So, thank you so much for that info that y'all that wasn't owned by y'all.
>> Um, Mayor Prom, was is that um is that the area that now has uh the fencing around it? No. >> No. What? That's behind it. >> Oh, okay. >> Between it and and Puerto del Rio, there's a little retention pond and a a
green space around. >> So, so the fact that there's this very obvious fencing, um, does that indicate that there's something going on with that property now? >> I would assume silk fence. >> I'm talking about adjacent to
>> It's a different prop. Oh, is that the Wave Village property? That's >> W. That's a different owner in parcel, >> right? Okay. So, we don't >> butts it, I believe. >> Right. But we don't know that something is happening. I guess we check with our building department, but Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> But just wanted to give that update so people wouldn't see these articles and think that it's already we're out there with shovels already. So, that's all. >> No, and I think we'll we'll get better with that and we'll learn. I mean this city internally is going through so many
leader I mean just changes whether I I sympathize with our city staff who is trying to keep all the balloons in this air during this economy. My reports are simple. I just want to echo a community
concern and um my hope is that we can at the next meeting or shortly give an update. I know our public I've gotten a few comments on the accessing the public records and my communication is we're we're working on it. I think we had
heard some things and so I just want to communicate that my hope is um there's anything that this council can do to support those efforts to as we're working through those challenges. I I I believe we would all support it and
thank you for all the hard work that you're doing today. But um that's it. I I have nothing else. >> Mr. Mayor, thank you. I make a motion that we end the this uh meeting tonight. We conclude.
>> Motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn.