##VIDEO ID:ZtnlPTck8J4## good evening everyone it is 6:00 p.m. we are at the cape canaval city council regular meeting at the city hall council chambers 100 pul Avenue Cape canaval Florida it is November 19th 2024 and we are here thank you all for being here I call this meeting to order and with that would like to ask our mayor protim to please lead us in the pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all okay at this time is the oath of office for the mayor mayor roll call pardon me city clerk please call the role council member Davis here council member Jackson here council member Kellum here mayor proen Kellum mayor Morrison beer council member Willis beer little zealous I believe we can proceed thank you all for being here with the oath of office today my brother I'm honored to have sworn in here and City attorney overseeing this uh Reverend scooter Morrison and my mother is here thank you for being here wife daughter and all who are here to support very much appreciated so with that I'll come forward thank you I just want to thank all you may Pro Council City Manor city clerk City attorney brother it's be here just to thank you for take part in this for our family so my brother I wish you happiness help success most of all God's richest blessings would you repeat after me raise your right hand I West Morrison I West Morrison you solemnly swear you Solly swear that I will support protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America that I will support protect defend the Constitution of the United States of America and of the State of Florida and of the State of Florida and the charter and ordinances of the City of Cape gaval and the charter and ordinances of the City of Cape canaver and that I am entitled to hold office and that I am entitled to hold office in the city of cap canaval Florida in the City of Cape canaval Florida and that I will Faithfully perform and that I will Faithfully perform all the duties all the duties of the office of Mayor of the office of Mayor of the city of cap canaval of the City of Cape canaval so help me God so help you God congratulations Mr Mayor [Applause] speaking of the record sir it is 6:04 p.m. we're going to do a quick 5 to 10 minute recess um and allow some of the folks to go home uh who may not want to stay for the whole meeting and uh yes so maybe uh come back around 6:15 and uh we'll reconvene with the meeting if we get back sooner that's great so with that we'll reconvene here shortly thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e so all right we ready council member Willis ready go you I'm going to work this way you ready you ready to go ready yeah ready okay we'll go ahead and call the meeting back to order it is 6:14 p.m. thank you all for your patience and the opportunity to get some folks out of there and take some photographs I am now moving right along we are at the approval of agenda as written or with amendments uh so at this time Council Mr Mayor yes mayor Pro Tim Kellum I would like to move uh item number 13 to right after the consent agenda we have people that want to speak on that and um they one of them has an family emergencies she has to get to so I would like to move it number 13 to right after the consent agenda please okay so may P Tim Kellum item number 13 is of under the discussion item uh to be moved right after the consent and consent ends at item six would this be uh okay to do before the public hearing City attorney if we took item 13 as a discussion okay all emailed that but I'd like to um add on to discuss having a special meeting so we can dedicate time to that and make sure that we get this to move um you know get attention to the issue okay so the discussion would be uh about scheduling another meeting when we get to that item discussion for uh wave Village Development agreement future meeting date yes okay understood uh these are so we have two one moving an item 13 to essentially just in between six and seven and adding on 15 are there any other changes oh and uh removing item four so we actually have three excuse me uh changes anything else mayor city manager um I'm wondering in in respect to the fact that Mr G is having an attorney paid by the hour if Mrs council member Jackson wants to put that at a certain place in the agenda or wait till the end I I really would rather it have be further Upfront for that very reason um so uh I know uh mayor protim Kellum had said Coral drive because she has people here waiting could we put it right after Coral Drive oh that's good okay so addon uh but still be added on as item 15 just for purposes and now we would move item move it up uh following the former okay 13 okay are there any other changes proposed okay so let's take them uh one at a time pulling item four from the agenda I think we'll need a motion for that one I'll make a motion we um approve the consent agenda 1 2 3 5 and six wait we're approving the whole agenda here we're consent agenda oh gotcha okay I guess just pulling item number four completely uh was an amendment make a motion we approve the agenda as written with amendments as discussed as discussed yes I'll second the motion city manager okay we got a motion by council member Willis a second by council member Jackson City manager do you want to go through those amendments make sure we're on the same GL to just to clarify my understanding is um the revisions on the agenda are to after consent agenda or at consent agenda we're pulling item four uh not considering it for consent and then after consent agenda we're moving item 13 which is 243 Coral drive to be heard right after that and then finally um council member Jackson wants to discuss the potential meeting date for wave Village uh development agreement and that would be held discussion held right after the um 243 Coral Drive discussion and then on to item seven after that council is that in line with the motion yes yes City attorney any issues any further discussion city clerk council member Davis four council member Jackson four mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison four council member Willis for okay the Amendments pass Five 5 which takes us now to the election of the mayor Pro Tim city manager or City attorney yes sir mayor um in the past the city council has um elected elected do the ballot um and where that simply we just pass these down and you put a check mark by the person that you want to be May potim and pass them down to the city attorney and he reads them I have these prepared for that purpose if you'd like to use these tonight or you could select another method I think that worked well council do we have any issue the process that take one we did last time works fine they're all the same okay okay so every year our code requires us to uh appoint a mayor protim uh vice mayor essentially to assume the duties of Mayor in the mayor's absence okay so these are okay got it and uh the the what we're passing here are essentially ballots uh with the options uh the the council and we will all check a box submit them and the results you only need one of them yeah we only need one plus there's a tie then that's why there okay so the City attorney do we need to pass them to the City attorney yes please okay just confirming is there any discussion um or anyone not willing that could save some time to to run or to be appointed mayor protim no I'm good okay no it's oh there's two for okay I that should be three four e one more time City attorney two for Willis two for Kellum one for Jackson okay for did the procedures talk about a tiebreaker was it removing one of the options one of the options the council could elect is to only um vote on the two top tied vote Getters oh was that what we were supposed to do on that round that's that's an option you can do okay I think that would that would help identical is the last same counts identical okay Council are we okay with that to so those two would be who City attorney nowel is that okay okay so current mayor protim Kellum was reappointed as mayor protim for this upcoming year fiscal year 2425 AB or receive the most amount of votes mayor P Tim Kellum well thank you and I am honored and thank you for the faith in me on the council I got big shoes to follow behind but I do my best I'm honored to be mayor protm I love our city and um I welcome being mayor protm again so thank you thank you okay with okay looking for a motion to appoint mayor Pro Tim Kellum I'll make a motion to appoint U mayor Pro Tim Kellum I'll second got a motion by council member Jackson a second by council member Willis to appoint mayor Pro Tim Kellum any further discussion seeing none city clerk council member Davis four council member Jackson four council member Kellum I mean mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison four council member Willis for okay great and thank you all for your willingness to to do that mayor per Tim Kellum thank you all right so now we are at the presentation interviews portion of the meeting we at 6:27 p.m. the first one we have is the Canaveral fire rescue in Bard County Sheriff's Office hurricane Milton appreciation presentation I believe that's right here okay so the City of Cape Canaveral experienced impacts from Hurricane Milton that required numerous preparation and Recovery activities over multiple days the storm made landfall near CEST Key Florida at a category 3 on the evening of Wednesday October 9th 2024 from there the storm moved past or moved Eastward over Central Florida and into Bard County by the morning of Thursday October 10th as a category 1 Milton exited the state over Cape Canaveral bringing instances of high winds extreme rainfall and nearby tornadoes within the vicinity of the city over a period of 48 Hours of about 48 Hours canaval fire rescue and Bard County Sheriff's Office Personnel performed near continuous operations throughout hurricane Milton and for many subsequent days afterwards to ensure the safety and security of the city's residents and its infrastructure even as weather conditions worsen such operations included patrols of City roadways to ensure that they were clear of Fallen debris monitoring storm drains for blockages performing resident Wellness checks and relaying upto-date information to the city's Emergency Operations team amongst o others the city would like to thank all of its First Responders for their dedication and bravery to the community during this storm event I have a Canaveral fire rescue certificate of appreciation and a Bard County Sheriff's Office certificate of appreciation as well if we have Representatives lieutenant in thear County Sheriff's Office here from [Applause] recogition um it's a testament to the the great men and women that we have working next door they were the ones that are out there at night um removing the debris cut using chainsaws moving moving Limbs and and keeping the drains clear you know along with with public works and so thank you you have both for the fire dep thank you very much Lieutenant M yes and Echo and thank you for all you've done through the the storm our First Responders uh done an excellent job and and Zach Thank You For Preparing that and continuing to to keep us updated and our city manager uh throughout the storm and so with that we will now move on to the second presentation of special recognition to OG Enterprises and Canaveral meets in Delhi for their support and contributions to the City of Cape Canaveral and The Bard County Sheriff's Office National Night Out event each year The Bard County Sheriff's Office and cooperation with the City of Cape Canaveral participates in the annual National Night Out event at the City of Cape canaval Community Center National Night Out is an annual community building campaign that promotes police Community Partnerships in neighborhood camaraderie to make our efforts safer more caring places to live National Night Out enhances the relationship between neighbors and law enforcement while bringing back a true sense of community furthermore it provides a great opportunity to bring police and neighbors together under positive circumstances this event would not be successful without the cooperation and support of local businesses in the community who believe in this campaign this year we would like to recognize two of those local businesses that partnered with us to achieve our mission canaval meets and Deli have partnered with us for many years each year they provide food and refresh freshman items for the event o Enterprises donated $1,000 for this year's event to help cover the cost of entertainment and kid-friendly activities the city and The Bard County Sheriff's Office applaud the support of those businesses myself commander kek and bravard County Sheriff's Office Lieutenant Scott maleno will present the special recognition plaques to both OG Enterprises and Canaveral meets in Delhi both business owners are here come [Applause] forward e e [Applause] was very nice thank you okay that concludes the presentations and interviews portion of the meeting at this time is public participation if you tend to speak and have not filled out a card please pick one up at the front provide it here to Lieutenant Malo and we'll make sure that you're heard I do have several cards here uh just going to take them one at a time the first one I have here is Mr Brad PLL and as Mr PLL is coming forward as a reminder we we have a light system here you can go to the congratulations Mr Mayor I remember thank you Brad appreciate that uh the lights here when they go green you have three minutes yellow it's about 30 more seconds and when it's readed started quick thank you uh good evening what I want to talk about is a sense of urgency as many of you know I live near Sandpiper Park my backyard I get to see all the trees so a little story last week uh or maybe it was yeah last week I didn't good to war America they were talking about how Legacy trees are stressed out by drought excessive water Etc and the trees fall on kids several kids believe it or not this year have died because and there was no wind the tree just collapsed I see some dead branches not Twigs but branches I didn't know who to call I called the deput or I emailed the deputy director and the director of parks and CNL whatever we're called now they called Tim the arborus Tim came out within an hour I met with Tim he picked out some tree limbs and I happened to show him a power a power light or electrical light from the overlines that were hanging through a tree for several weeks he said oh no he got Ian and himself got cones blocked off the area with yellow tape they said they'll come back on the next day to cut down those dead tree limbs and then a white City car pulls up and Parks right in front of those cones I don't know what's going on son of a gun 45 minutes later an FPL truck shows up takes care of the electrical wire hangs it back up and I'm like I've never seen things work so quick then the next morning at 8:00 when no one's in the park that's when Tim and his crew start cutting down tree limbs in San hyper Park the dead the dead branches so I just want to tell everyone here that's what a sense of urgency is and the city did such a great job understanding what dangers there could be and how they handle it I just want to say thank you very much for that you guys need to be recognized on that because I know there's some businesses here that all they do is chirp at you guys so thank you very much thank you Brad very nice to [Applause] hear Rita perini actually if Rita if you don't mind I I am going to group a couple of these here um to make sure we're being expeditious here okay all right Mr John Benton okay I'm here for my code reduction hearing that you won't give me it's because of a a code violation living in a warehouse I did not live in the warehouse and the lawyer wouldn't let me testify after your witness Kevin man your Deacon and he also testified nobody was living in the warehouse and his son was on the sex offender site said he lived in the warehouses he didn't even arrest him for a year using a false address Kevin when asked by Mr Dicky here said ask him is he's if he's living in there since he's on that website he told him no he's working security so his son should have been in that code enforcement hearing testifying I lived in that warehouse no police reports where they met the security up there for a year that board and lawyer and coach enforcement officer laughed at me thought I was homeless the first council meeting I came in here Randall said I know you don't live in the warehouse John you live on Tyler since ' 88 now because of this happening in here taking you won't do anything has gone out in the street your supporters half a dozen of them was right up there at the corner on the on the corner to the curb and this one lady was walking up there didn't want me to hold my toy sign up there didn't what they she on that corner I try to walk away from her she'd run around and jump right in front of me one foot I turn around and go back to this went on for two or three minutes then all of a sudden I step off the sidewalk I don't I'm not going to be out there with those cars going 40 miles an hour and her husband comes up and pushes me from behind towards her she could ended up in a road all over this right here because they don't like the way I come in here well you're sticking for a deacon a Kevin man he screamed at me don't hit his wife I I never touched her somebody told him I guess I don't know or he thinks he saw it then he went after me again and it busted my knuckles I had two had two scars on there I sent you guys pictures of it where I me his teeth no charges I don't fou charges on these people homeless people do that to me and I don't when I'm holding that sign it's a toy sign there was no raymen people out there probably they chased them off too why don't you deal with this before somebody gets hurt might not be me he's the one that got the worst of it you owe me a code reduction hearing you didn't let me defend myself you trespassed me when the judge told me to bring the sign over here a toy sign my goodness man they're taking this and here out on your street okay the next one here Kim renka number 15 ashrey Gul same thank you okay so uh we have Peg schaer with a few cards one for item four okay 11 I see uh no general public comment Miss schaer is there any do you want to wait till the items come or is there anything general public comment I okay you can come forward thank you very much it's great to see everybody here it's also uh congratulations uh Mr Mayor on a very uh significant win and I'm excited about the progress the city is going to have here in the next three years um so uh regarding item number four I know it's been tabled but it's difficult for me to to uh want to see the city spend another 71,000 52,000 on a software that has not been used properly in the past uh we had a a meeting here back in March of 2024 and um we were told that the software works perfectly when used properly but wasn't used properly and I don't know that spending more money is going to make it used properly so I have an issue with that um as far as item number 7 is concerned it is listed as rooftop amenities on multif family mix use in commercial buildings but it's really a height increase ordinance the ordinance and the the the um language in it only is addressing those that are already at the maximum height and to give approval to go higher so that ordinance the name of that ordinance and everything around it needs to be changed because it's not a rooftop bar amenity because there's already codes in place for that there's already building codes and you already have a city code what you are trying to do is extend the height and then I and personally I'm I'm fine with it but it don't lump all all businesses into that ordinance then further restricting what we can do when it's really only addressing the hotels and the height that they have and then number 11 I'm just again curious where we are at with um an update from the January 24 for special meeting cuz we're at 11 months now and if the question has been answered I've missed it and I would like to know the answer if we know that the um the a complaint wasn't made on 524 23 but it was in the software it was in the system then it got put in there by someone and it got taken out by someone and we still don't know who it who it did so there's there's that information I think it's been asked five times now five months okay so there's no way that it could have been in prior to the work being done we don't know who put it in we don't know why it was there and we don't know how it got taken out so it's difficult for me and that goes back to bsna if you can upload a document and then un upload a document that doesn't seem like uh official records to me in fact it seems like manipulation of records and that's it thank you thank you Miss Scher there was three cards I think you went through all three together okay great items four 7 and 11 okay thank you uh and just to clarify Mr perll you you provided two cards as well yes uh is that second one okay they're separate they're separate okay emergency yes a lack of sense of urgency it's not what you think um lack of a sense of urgency November 8th late on a Friday the Waste Pro Truck came by my building and dumped well over 10 gallons of hydraulic fuel in the city streets they had to put dams up to block the flow of fluids after a few hours the repair truck came by they dumped uh some absorbent material on it uh fixed the truck the truck left um that's the last I heard of them then we had a rainstorm and all that Schmutz went down the storm sore that was Veterans Day weekend I called them up Tuesday morning that's the earliest that they were open they said send us an email about everything cuz I asked them when are they going to come to clean it up so sent them an email heard nothing Friday sent them another email last Friday and I told them if I don't hear anything by the close of business yesterday Monday I'm coming to the city so I'm at the city okay I have pictures and that shows a lack of a sense of urgency when it's could be I don't know if it's a Hazmat Hazard but it's an environmental hazard hydraulic fluid um so I have pictures if anyone wants to see it but my comment is Waste Pro has no sense of urgency and you compare it how the city worked on the safety of our kids in handling things in less than 24 hours got to tell you someone needs to complain the Waste Pro I gave them fair fair notice now I'm coming to the city I welcome you to look at the stains in our streets thank you we I'd love to see the photos if you provide them can I go up there yeah we got to ask now that's after abor material ran down I didn't know was okay I thought they would come the next day sweep up and clean but it's Magen magia thank you 7 777 Magnolia Avenue yeah in between Jackson and Harrison thank you very much guys I hope we don't kill fish with that hydraulic fluid thank you Mr pel and [Music] manties oh there's more oh they're multiple copies oh it's different shots yeah they they all looked unique thank you okay Mr Robert McGregor hello my name is Robert McGregor I'm a resident here in Cape canaval I spend most of my time over here at Nancy Hansen and I noticed that the Civic Hub has been pushed back and they had a nice design to what they were going to do with the uh property over there has been pushed back no problem also noticed looking through the budget adopted budget that there's possibly possibility of new tennis courts being built at the city park by C5 but I heard that was not going to get done because of public push back now there's possibility I guess in the budget to resurface the courts at Nan which they really need I don't know if the council if the council has been over there or not but there's cracks in them there's hazards in them I know they drilled through to look for some wells over there so there's tripping hazards and stuff so hopefully it's been budgeted for next 2425 that you spend the money to resurface the courts it doesn't pertain to pickle ball or tennis the courts need to be refurnished and apparently the way I understand now is that it's not just going to be resurfacing they're going to have to tear them all up because I guess there's some issues with uh depressions and stuff so hopefully the council will Vote or spend the money to update the courts over there at nany Hansen thank you thank you okay I got a few more cards left these are all related to the same item I believe group uh Rita perini oh they're for item 13 wait till the item Susan Denny uh Nancy Dean wait thank you and the other ones was Mr zanka and Mr Gul waiting if anyone submitted a card and for some reason I've overlooked it please come forward or raise your hand we'll make sure we do not have the two-way participation I believe tonight city clerk okay so no one online and with that seeing no more hands raised or intent for public comment we'll go ahead and close the public participation portion of the meeting which now we can move to the consent agenda the remaining items on the consent agenda after the amendments are items 1 2 3 5 and six do does council or anyone want to pull any of these items for discussion or would we like to approve them all together make a motion we approve one two three five and six I'll second okay got a motion by mayor Pro Tim Kellum a second by council member Willis to approve items 1 2 3 5 and six any further discussion on these items city manager does that aine yes sir everything okay seeing none city clerk council member Davis four council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis for passes 5 consent agenda items 1 two 3 five and six which takes us to uh the Amendments that we made we decided to which one did we decide to do first was it the add-on item 13 is next that's the um 243 Coral Drive two thank you so we are now jumping to item number 13 is a discussion to address the concerns of neighbors of 243 Coral Drive in Harbor he subdivision submitted by mayor protim Kellum mayor protim if you want to maybe introduce it we've got the three cards we can then go to the public and then come back but the floor is yours thank you um yes I brought this um to the attention of the council so we could discuss um the the house 243 Carl is in Harbor Heights Harbor Heights is a unique neighborhood that has been there since 1962 um the height of this property compared to the other houses at 243 has been a concern since the dirt arrived uh neighbors have emailed and talked with staff um they are getting runoff on both sides of the um of the house on the east side and the West Side there's been other houses built in Harbor Heights because the houses are old so they usually demolish the house and build new ones but none of them and I have a picture all passed down none of them were built to the height that this uh property is when they um when they poured the dirt right away um the neighbors called the city because they were concerned about the height um I have a picture here too that shows the height um of the building or of the uh plat um so the neighbors have some questions that they seem not to get an answer to I know recently they had a meeting with the city manager and Brianna and hopefully as answered some of their questions but I just want to try to get us all on the same page and see what uh we can do to I've been there I live right down the street they are getting flow in their properties and in the back property um so how we how do we fix this releve it uh get relief for the Neighbors um and there's just a few questions I have I I did some attachments to this um item uh the first one is the survey uh which does not show the pool in the backyard which was added later which I think has a lot to do with the drainage um of the of the property um and then you know back in November 4th 2022 uh John Bard was our city engineer and he um because the neighbors were complaining about the height went out there and did some um measurements and everything and he measured that the plaque was 10.88 the dirt um and in his memo which is attachment to it says that the fill is approximately 10.88 Which is higher than the adjacent properties and in his few um memos to Mike German Dave Dicky he says several times that these this property is going to flood the other properties so my question is why it wasn't um addressed um before the plumbing went in and before that um you know the building went up uh attachment number three is questions and statements from Rita Pino who has a lot of knowledge of of um construction um and then you know then they decided to put a swimming pool in if you ever been by this place it's a very small of well it's not a small lot but it's a big house on a small lot and there's not a lot of room and uh John Bard again said he didn't see any way there could be a pool back there so they applied for the pool um and they then they uh withdrew the for the permit and then they applied again and they were turned down on on and they I have a letter um to the owners from the staff and it says um and it gives the reason why it was denied it's the staff's determination at construction of the proposed pool and its placement on the property will create unreasonable logistic and safety concern for city workers with future maintenance in the utility easement um so my thing is why why I mean they turned them down but now there's a pool there what changed and what from there the staff's concern about the um utility easement and it being so close to the pool and for workers safety what changed it said that altered pool and deck footprint needed to happen and addition structural conditions for the wall and the deck section I did that get done and you know if the neighbors had gotten that report after this on how they were going to fix it for the pool they might have felt a little better about it and then we come to kimly Horn on uh September 25th 2024 um that were sent out there to take another look at it and they asked for different um confirmations on the Swale and this and that and I don't know if they ever got it um and then their last the last one from Kinley horn was um 243 Carl driveway permit and site plan submitted has been reviewed to ensure compliance with the City of Cape canaval Code and it says the overall site plant is substantially compliant what I mean and it says that um the Swale in the back has has been reduced from 8 feet to 7.6 I just the neighbors there are do not have faith in that this is not going to um flood their properties and they're very concerned about it and substantially compliant what does substantially compliant mean that things need to change there needs to be upgrades in what has to happen before they are fully compliant or that that's my questions and um I know the neighbors are here and they have a lot to say so I'm going to let them talk and I just want to see what we can do the main thing is this is going to happen a lot in our city because the houses are older but do we ever take in consideration like this house is way higher than the other houses the character of the the neighborhood and the things that we um need to consider does it go between to the beautification board to for them to you know agree that this will fit in this neighborhood and again again you know we did the lid uh workshop with different ways to build and raise um houses because of the flood zone and extra fill was the wrong way to fill to raise houses um there are other ways to do that uh I just you know it is a concern and um you know we talked about in some workshops the the footprint of the house and the pool and the there's nowhere for rain to go if they're all if it's all covered so my concern is not only for this property but down the road for the whole city the codes we need to change and the things we need to fix so this doesn't happen so that's where I'm coming from and I would like the neighbors to speak on this yes thank you mayor Pim for introducing this before we go to the public I want to for the whole Council are there any comments need to make it this time we'll bring it back and discuss in no particular order uh Miss Dean Miss Denny Miss Pini hi my name is Rita Pini I own uh my house at 247 Coral Drive since 1998 and prior to that I own 234 Harbor Drive so I've been in the harbor height Community for well over 30 years um just a little bit on my background I have a bachelor's degree in environmental science from Rollins College and I recently retired from the Bard County bard of County Commissioners 37 years as an environmental scientist seven of those years I worked with the Environmental Health Department where I was responsible for uh reviewing and uh approving septic tank permits so I have an in Intimate knowledge of building procedures setbacks setting up uh site plans setbacks uh we we were oneman survey teams back then we had to set the elevations for the blackwat and uh gray water Plumbing pipes when there's no an unincorporated Bard when there's no sanitary sewer you have to you have to obtain a septic tank permit before you can get a building permit so my concern with 243 uh Coral Drive started the day the Phill was placed from my experience and knowledge I recognize that it was way too much fill we're not on septic tank there I notified the city official at that day the city uh responded accordingly and the Sur surveyor came out the next day which is a Friday he shot the fill pad there was no form boards in place at that time he just shot the fill pad that they put the fill on um he returned again Saturday the next day and asked me if he could take a shot off my floor so he did thus um the the memo that Mickey uh referred to from John barar the S city building official uh that was dated December 8th 2022 addressing my concern uh this memo I I feel is pivotal and has significant value uh for several reasons first it confirmed the proposed grading plan of with the elevation of 10.88 that elevation is a finished floor elevation uh Which is higher than the injac properties uh Mr marar also noted greatting comments for the AC pad on the west side which was going to require a Swale modification uh the rear rear Southern Swale slope requirement on that boundary survey was at 3.1 the city requires a 4.1 slope and most importantly um he noted that the rear rear Southern Swale is directed towards the southeast Corner property Eastern property that's my property Mr par car recommended special infiltration oh God I'm not of time you're okay yeah Council are we okay with extending you need how much time just a few more minutes okay typically we try to keep it to three but please um thank you okay Mr rard uh noted special uh infiltration swell that designed to be constructed um again large buildings with higher finished floor elevations cause problems for neighboring properties with that being said at this the time that memo was wrting the original bu boundary survey dated August 23rd 22 did not include a pool the it was modified and uh now the pool is on the survey as of February 3rd 2024 with the pool and now the major concern for storm water runoff is Amplified um and my property has had and continued to have runoff from 43 it's bringing silt and dirt onto my property um as a matter of fact at this time last year I was because of the dirt accumulation on my West fence line I was unable to open my West Gate fence I've had to have I've had to dig it out three times in addition my brick paper driveway has been damaged as a result of construction equipment thank you and I just have a a few pictures that you're welcome to look at yes please you're fine thank you just wanted to ask one quick question no R Miss perini I'm sorry if that totally fine you a couple of minutes whatever you needed to extend there and I think council member Willis has a a question for you your home is located on the east side of this property correct okay all right I I have a photo I went out there and shot the photo of the uh silk fence and yeah just wanted to be sure that was you with the pull up that's a that's a huge liability there's at least a two and a half to three foot drop on the East and Southern sides and if somebody falls off that they're going to get hurt okay thank you any other comments at this time okay so was Miss Rita perini 243 Coral I have Miss Nancy Dean or Susan Denny okay good evening my name is Nancy Dean I reside at 235 Coral Drive in Cape canaval that's also located in Harbor Heights um I'm also very very concerned about the storm water runoff um at the site for this property um 243 Coral Drive I learned of this uh when I saw the pad I saw is very high it's very elevated I've never seen anything like that in our neighborhood immediately was concerned about the storm water runoff coming from that new construction um I had learned that there was going to be a pool built there uh that just concerned me even more all the cement where's this water going to go pavers um I I called the city several times to you know voice my concern about all of this my calls were not returned my emails were not returned um it was it was very very difficult for me to get anybody to help me just answer some general questions um I also spoke to Mr Bard and he was so kind to go out and look he said Nancy I'm going to go out there I'm going to look I'm going to report back to you and uh he he called me back he said I've looked at the original survey and he said uh there's no pool on there and from what I'm observing there could not be a pool built in that backyard due to several things um so I took that to face value that there wouldn't be a pull there later I learned there is going to be a pool there and I called the city again and asked for some questions people wouldn't call me back um you know it I just really really super concerned about the storm water rut on off uh you have to retain your own you you can it cannot go on neighboring properties I do have photographs I'd like to show you when I'm done here the silt fencing is doing absolutely nothing for the water I don't think silt fencing is designed for water and I have some pretty good photog gaps I've been keeping an eye on it cuz I'm concerned um to this day uh the reason why I'm as is concerned about the storm water runup as I am is because I learned two Builders have been involved in this there's been many changes for the staff through the process of this staff will not call me back will not communicate with me there appears to be many changes to the boundary surveys the latest revision was May 19th 2024 and also has Kimberly horn reviewed this I think they should see this from start to where we are right now uh all all all kinds of concerns um uh I had I had no choice because the staff would not contact me I had no choice other than to contact our mayor of our city and ask him for help uh I know my time's run off I've got two years of of questioning and watching this pro project and I knew my time would run out in 3 minutes uh uh but I will tell you this to me the house on the lot looks too big just by appearance the house looks too big and it's really pretty simple uh the property must contain the same amount of water post construction as preconstruction so what the bottom line is there can't be any more water to run off this property when this home is finished than what was previously there that is a concern of mine always has been I've got a lot more to say but I respect your time I would like for you to take a look at these photographs I have of the water intrusion on the west side I have observed the water intrusion on the east side which is Rita's house I've seen them both it's really happening the silt fencing is not stopping the water you also see in here there's more than water so could I approach with my photographs please and I am available also if anyone wants to call me back up there's a lot more that I'd like to go over but I'm being respective of the 3 minute yes and during the public comment the council's going to come back and discuss that we encourage you to stay and in the past we've even went back to the public and and needed so yes if you just want to provide them uh thank you Miss Dean we've got some photos here there's provided in addition to miss pini's photos they've got some comments on the back this is the home to the West backyard of West Property standing looking west west side to the right side of stake is Neighbors picture of 243 Coral backyard that makes sense to me this last one West property 243 Coral looking West so yeah that's it and one more card here miss Susan Denny hi I'm Susan Denny and I reside at 236 Coral Drive I have the across the street view of of all of this stuff going on um I'm a retired mechanical engineer and I'm also on the Planning and Zoning Board boy when they put that fill in I too was concerned because it was high I did not contact the city immediately because I knew these lovely ladies were already in contact and I've been through that where so many people talk to you and you just kind of go crazy um I did join the effort after seeing my neighbors distraught from all their efforts they had a feeling that the city didn't care well I care which is why I'm here to try to help them out a little bit um an email was sent to the city council on October 25th describing the situation and requested to stop work until the drainage report is provided and deemed adequate the drainage analysis and letter stating that everything is to code were provided the draining analysis is based on an ffe of 10.88 which Rita told you was shot with no form boards okay um so the city is stating that everything is all right right it's up to code you got a drainage report yet the runoff remains to go into the neighboring yards the city came out said they observed that all protections required were in place and in working order yet the neighbors are still getting run off in their yards the protection is that black silk fence that half the time it was down anyway um Houston we have a problem right are the codes adequate or is the drainage an analyst flawed do we need to use more substantial protection when an elevated home is being built I believe the codes and policies and processes need to be reviewed and updated we've discussed this at a January 24th Planning and Zoning meeting um it was to discuss amend review requirements and fee requirements for minor site plan reviews we talked about early drainage review from the city to ensure adequacy prior to building we haven't talked about it since in March March 27th there was a joint Workshop between the city council and the Planning and Zoning it was a a joint educational Workshop green storm water oh jeez I thought I had low impact um basically what Mickey had already said the gentleman who performed that Workshop said how not to build an elevated house and 243 was built exactly how he stated was the worst case to do when you want to elevate your house looking out for the 00 year flooding so we had a nice meeting with uh the city manager and other people we talked about the FF and was it really correct because if that 10.88 was taken just at the fill level then you got 4 Ines of concrete that you're going to pour on top of it now we have a piece of paper that says the ffe is 10.88 but we also discussed in that meeting possibly sending somebody not associated with the city to go really measure that FF so that way we know that the drainage and Analysis is correct or not you know we need to figure out if the codes are correct or not because this is going to go on and I'll tell you what I I've been monitoring it from the pnz but to see my neighbors just distraught over everything is is um not acceptable so I do recommend you at least measure that all right and if everything if so we know that we're getting a runoff into these neighbors well then is the drainage report right you know do we have the city's already talked about addressing codes and policies that was part of the workshop we need to do it now so I'm recommending we do it now and I'm sorry I'm over my three minutes and I appreciate your time and I'm the one that has the emergency so I'm going to leave thank you thank you okay so those are the three cards there uh mayor Pro Tim Kellum I'm going to bring it back to you if is there uh anything that you need to add and I want to hear from the council and uh the city manager um as well but if you'd be okay the city manager I think could yeah I just would like to ask I guess Brianna um when this letter went to the owners on um February 21st uh 2024 about the denial for the pool and what they suggested they fix is there a report after that or was it approved um do we have something that says this is what they changed and this is now approved EX of that will hopefully address any lingering or questions for the first time to people hearing the issue for the first time um one point of kind of discrepancy is the difference between the definition of a site plan and a survey a survey you know surveys is what's there a site plan is what's planned to be there and so just making sure that we're um addressing those correctly because there wouldn't be a pool on the survey if there's no pool there right um and so I we staff um myself city manager building official um code enforcement manager deputy director we've spoken with uh Miss Nancy Dean several times on the phone and over email and had a meeting last week um where we discussed the need for the formboard form board survey um because it is correct like you have to have ffe from the form board survey not from the plan um which was approved you know in theory per se and so since subsequent to that meeting last Wednesday staff was able to locate the form board survey and it showed 10.88 um now you know if we want to do further um investigative work we were happy to do that um the could you clarify it showed 10.88 as the top of the form yes yes yes that is correct um it is up to speed on permits that is correct that there was um denial of some type of full permit and of my myself and the building official were not here at the time um unfortunately but um done a lot of research here to figure it out for youall um and so right now the house is not final um it has been undergoing inspection um and since our meeting last Wednesday we actually have um been inspecting every single day oh that fell down um either code enforcement building staff um inspectors every single day to make sure that we are um ensuring best management practices as well as um things are being built you know more frequent than a typical inspection is performed throughout the life of a construction project um so yes there was an submitted application for a pool later that was approved again it was before my time I believe so I can't speak too much to that right now but um we do have here our building official as well as city engineer um and before you know if you have questions for them I I think especially um Robert our building official put together a permit history and he's got copies of this for anyone who'd like it um for this project as of today um and our city engineer so the city kind of went and did an extra review of this project usually it's a staff review um to review the permit application and sign off and then it goes through inspections passes final and they can move in right um well we did a second review with our the new City Engine engineer once they came on board and they found the same things um the same findings which um you brought up a point that I think our engineer can can clarify for you um in addition we have in our code nothing that requires a discretionary application for single family homes um like you mentioned cab that's something I've seen done um but just to keep in mind it would apply to every single single family home um and so you know once again that's a code update that could be done should there be um desire to do it and an update on an update per se the Peril of flood comprehensive Plan update is going before Planning and Zoning Board next month which is December 11th um what that will do is Planning and Zoning Board will hear it because it is an ordinance to update um the coastal management section of the comp excuse me element of the comprehensive plan um it will then go to you all actually the following week so you're member meeting you'll have the first reading of that ordinance should things go should should Planning and Zoning um recommend approval um subsequent to first and second reading and adoption by city council code updates in direct response to that and anything else that we'd like to add in you know we've got some new staff on board that have a lot of good ideas um that go beyond state requirements it sounds like there's ideas here too um we want to get that done as soon as possible right every second counts with storm water um so I will introduce our city engineer if you'd like to ask about that specific question mallerie okay just to restate the question re ask the question which question was it may for Tim callums um I just had a question about um when they denied the pool permit and then I guess they reapplied mhm what changes were made I mean the sewer pipe is still the sewer pipe what changes were made to the pool area to make it acceptable the second time I we don't have that yeah I don't have that information immediately available but Robert who put this together he might and if not we can get it to you tomorrow and then my question for um kimley and Horn was what does substantially compliant mean I mean is there there's things that need to be done but for right now it's okay or no um hi mallerie Clancy with kimy horn um substantially compliant referenced the site plan that was reviewed so the proposed site plan um meaning the SketchUp of the sailes on the side and elevations proposed around the proposed building that meets uh city code city Land Development code and that's what substantially compliant me means that the site plan if constructed as proposed would meet city code referring to treatment um and other you know offset requirements so when they decided to add the pool to me pool and deck area and all that would change the drainage plan um but it's still compliant with the city code the final site plan provided that was approved did show that the drainage would still flow off you know towards the front off of the property um and still meet the treatment requirements okay all right that's all I have right now thank you thank you do you want me to St mayor yes city manager I would just like to state that um this project will not receive a CO until we have demonstrated compliance with the city code and kimley Horn's approval as well so that leads me to discuss something else that's very important and that is those changes to city code that we might consider and I was talking with mayor protm Kellum at length about this yesterday and we agreed on something that I think was kind of profound the height of the concrete pad the first floor the first concrete finished floor elevation is not at issue what's at issue is the height of the yard that's outside that those walls we currently don't have any regulation for either of those for a maximum you can go as high as you want on that first floor there's nothing except 25t height you can't exceed we also don't have anything that says you can't bring in more fill around your outside yards as long as you don't violate our code so with with the profound thinking in my mind is maybe what we should be considering is a code that will look at it require an analysis of adjacent properties yard grades and can only be within point so many inches of that higher or lower so you can have a house over here with a yard that's a foot or two higher than everybody else around them you can build your finished floor elevation as high as you want protect your contents from flooding and whatnot but at the yard issue that's what's at issue here I think and I think that code a code like that would help lot and I'm want to ask kimley horn to think about that when it's time to to bring these revisions in that will help pre prevent flooding issues in the future thank you um I have one more question um on this Memo from kiman horn on October 4th 2024 um it says the Swale because of the pull deck the sale width will be reduced from 8 foot to 7.6 does that make a big difference on the runoff um I mean is that in code the 76 yes so the original plan that was given I believe had an excess in treatment volume Pro provided and so that reduction still directs the flow in the right direction and just reduces the additional amount of treatment that was being provided so in that case it did still meet city code requirements okay Council a lot of everything that you've talked about i' I've expressed concerns over I expressed it in regards to cape view that is being developed and some of the other areas in our city um the elevation of the lot is a problem and for K view for that project it's well above the 10.88 but it's measuring from the city street from the from the street versus the other Lots um when we had our meeting and they talked about elevating Lots I discussed and everyone said alleged so I'll say alleged although I read the verdict um the Surf Side had a problem with drainage from a lot that was overbuilt built across the street and water ran under the Surf Side so as we look at this and look at our code we have to be cognizant of the fact that these properties that are the developers coming in and trying to maximize property um the footprint for the the structure that has been you know uh built there as well as the fact that we're not sure really I mean I haven't gotten a good answer on what size swell will handle how much water but we know that in some cases the swells aren't enough so as we look at what we're going to do to remedy these things we've got a multitude of issues in my opinion one being the the swell and how much water can it take um it might be time to investigate if you're going to be building these huge properties or structures on a smaller lot maybe we need to require a storm tanks under the the property to handle the runoff um but it's not right to have people that have been in this area for 50 years um having their properties flood and another what um mayor protim said I'm concerned I hear perious and impervious and and oh will you allow this much there's no restriction on how high you can build your lot up you know we're supposed to you know get to a certain height on the form board but we've got to look at these things and we've got to tie this down Hammer this down because as developers build we're going to be creating flooding and I don't want to have anything to do with creating flooding I want to remedy what is going not so I see the not just how much is impervious and how much is perious because guess what if you're taking a 50 style bungalow home on a single family lot and covering the majority of the lot with those combined surfaces it is not going to drain off the way that it did before so now we've got to look at that as our city grows because we want people to be able to fix their homes um or build a home and utilize their you know put something in but we've got to be respectful of the neighbors that have been here a long time and so all of these things concern me as well as the fact that we heard when I question K view we did hear that cap that um Kimberly horn cannot guarantee us as a city that whatever plan is approved by code will not flood so that means it's on us to ensure our code is minimizing the conditions for the flooding they're just checking to make sure that the lot is built to code so we've got to do something and um I think you know looking at our code and making changes it's a time now where we really need to do that that it's past time and we don't want to create flooding in our city by not addressing it at the root issue and that is looking at everything that we're allowing and whether we are actually shooting ourselves in the foot on our own code we got to change with the times um now we have people that want bigger places and some of those things might be you know alleviated with the flooding if we allow them if we look at saying h okay well you know what put some storm tanks on that lot you know but trying to find who's going to commit to us that our ideas for our code work that's the other thing because all of it's really an educated guest at this point Briana do you have any um clue as far as your experience on places with flooding and things that they found that work and okay can you tell me about some of those uh well so there's there's a lot um and the city is doing a lot of those just a few short for example our code um has maximum building coverage but lot coverage in terms of perious surface that is just that surface like patio with that's not covered and things like that um in places in our city it is not regulated and that is a massive impact okay and see that's exactly similar to what I'm saying because when you're looking at what we're allowing on the lot and the square footage we're covering up that we're natural drainage areas on a 50 style Bungalow it's going to make an impact if we overdo yes and and that's going to impact the neighbors next door that may have been there for 50 years or 10 years or 5 minutes it doesn't matter we're not supposed to do that so okay any other um just off yeah and actually um multiple of our staff we attended the annual liid conference a few weeks ago put on by the Marine Resources Council and I'd love to share a lot of the stuff we learned there with you um we've taken a lot of it back and um probably should still meet to talk about um things that we can translate here and so my my statement on all of this is as I said as councilwoman I don't want to be involved with creating flooding don't want to don't really care how we got there on our past code we need to make sure that people can utilize their property and do things to the properties they have and have the correct code in there to minimize flooding and and problems for the neigh and however we need to do that we've to me we've got to change with the times because we're um Coral Drive is a perfect example of that we've had flooding on Filmore same way we've got a lot of things that we're living with as a city that were done decades ago and now it's not working now so we've got to be more open-minded about what we consider and um taking a look at that code to see what we can do to alleviate the pain of these things I will say too you know code we can require the code is the teeth that staff has um I know that several of the staff has given recommendations and so we do our best we do our kind of due diligence cuz it is too late with storm water or not too late but it should have been done a while ago um more uh beefed up requirements but in the meantime we can do our best to recommend and ask develop velers and whatnot to redesign based on those principles that's what I had Mr thank you council member Willis or D yes um Mr Mayor I think we're all in agreement that we need to re look at re-examine our code we need to make changes to code that takes some time that's not going to alleviate these problems right immediately I think we need to task Brianna's Department with helping find solutions to remedy the runoff issues exactly right not I mean we're we're all going to be moving forward on changing code but that doesn't help them now that doesn't help them when they're going to the Builder is going to be um trying to get a CO for this home we need to we need to eliminate those flooding issues we need to task our staff with helping them find Solutions and seeing if there's any way the city can impose the will of alleviating those things upon the developer yes we have issued stop work orders when we found noncompliance and um they come into compliance at that time um my concern is that storm water that may have been an issue before how do we where's our teeth to enforce them to scaled back on that and I I'm not sure how you how you would prove what was there before or now um but it's something that we like I mentioned we're having daily inspections we're happy to do more frequently um to ensure that not only compliance with bmps but also the permits as well um so any ideas we're we're willing to PRI it is priority well I I think we need to approach it with a sense of urgency Mr Mayor I have a question now but yeah I just want to make sure we I'll have a chance to speak first council member D this time council member Jackson um one one of the problems that I've seen in multiple locations within the city is the height which we're talking about is that 10.88 on that form board and them building up the lot is there any reason we can just take away the ability to elevate that lot right now because if that's in our code allowing them to elevate the lot that's causing flooding around them around wherever they're building and if they're going to build up don't didn't we in that Workshop didn't they say build up with the base of the the you know the slab of the house instead and the reason I'm saying this is the elevated lot is causing the flooding and around these areas and we're allowing that right now aren't I right um city manager you and I discuss this for a little bit you rephrase the question I'm sorry well we allow the lot to be built up with and we don't really have code or there's no maximum buildup as long as they comply with other codes right and I think we need to put a maximum buildup on there for now as the first thing we look at so that those are not overbuilt and if they developer or the Builder wants to make or the owner you know the new the owner that's building if they want it elevated they need to pour more concrete well um Todd and I had a conversation about this and and um you know the codes that are in place now are old codes it doesn't take into consideration the flooding problem you know sea level rise all that stuff and we were talking about the footprint of the property and you were saying it goes by the acreage um they they can do up to 40% yeah for R2 I believe it's 40% um or maybe it's R1 is 40% and R2 is 35% and I think that we had talked about changing the code to make it like 30% that would be another code change that that's an option um Council would have to consider you know you're making a lot of properties non conforming which could make them uninsurable well I we talked about that to make it of a date like yeah anything built after this could not exceed this percentage Yeah council could do that um lots of things like that that that we can address that we need to address we haven't addressed before previous councils were more concerned about the overall height of a building not so much about the height of the pad or the slab um but I think we we've all learned to be a lot more sensitive to that so these ideas are all good ideas that we need to be bringing into our codee well and mayor protim I know that when we discussed cap view we discussed that as well because R2 for a townhouse is bigger allows more lot coverage than R2 for residential structure so and of course if I'm an investor I'm going to want to put as many of those on that lot as I can to sell because it's more profit for me and I get that but we need to look at how to do that well I think that um you know our city is 99% built out so we're there's going to be a lot of people's houses that are demolished or changed or um you know made better I I think that tasking Brianna's Department to bring us the codes we need to change in the future so we can get this done and then tasking your Department also to help them the 243 Coral to get them the information they want in need to understand better what's happening and hopefully you know before the cosos are issued the flooding problems will be gone um we also talked about with Todd um you know when somebody comes in with a plan for in a neighborhood like Harbor Heights if it should go to the community appearance board because here this big monstrous house is next to these little houses and you know are the neighbors happy with that um something like that I'm not sure exactly how to go about it but that would be something to look into too we have if I can recap mayor some very specific things we know we want to look into one is a code revision for future reduced lot coverage across the board for new homes new new commercial buildings not affecting existing ones another one is I believe if council's interested is maximum yard height height of yard as compared to neighbors and the other one um I believe council member Jackson is alluding to is a maximum impervious surface ratio I think those are all wonderful and actually I say we need to look at both the impervious but also combined because when you take grass away which Dr trins and you put something on it and you cover the majority of the lot I think we're asking for problems so I think it we need to look at it and quit putting compartmentalizing that into oh well it's impervious it'll drain you know what I know of one place in the city that that's not the case and so I think we need to look at both how much surface are we covering those lots with thank you uh SI city manager had there was a meeting recently with the residents who spoke were you a part of that meeting yes sir how did were there any open-ended items from that meeting that that were not resolved that we that we committed to the residents yeah at that meeting um we we did not have a form board survey okay um we committed to them that we were going to find one and we have since found one has it been transmitted to those residents Robert they have it that was a big question in in our minds because if the top of the dirt pad was 10.88 and the form boards are 4 in above that that puts him at like what 11.13 or something that's and and if kimley horn is reviewing based on 10.88 and not 11.13 that's going to make a big difference well the fact that we see the form board survey was at 10.88 that means what kimley horn reviewed was what was approved so that that's good and that's that's quality followup right there okay and were there any other open-ended items I don't recall I other than I mean what we heard today the general concern I think was clear and in the spirit of fixing the problem today I think that's the heart of the issue is first addressing I think some really good questions yeah but it's also about addressing what's happening every day if if if something is blown over knock over or not working and creating an impact on an adjacent property and there's a Code Compliance issue with that happening that can be caused for a stop work order make it right fix it and and that's what Robert has been instructed to do on a daily basis is go out there and inspect for these things make sure nothing's blown over not working or causing a problem if there's a code violation every day stop work order every day other than the sil fence were there any other stop work order code violations that were submitted um building official is Robert here you come up Robert yeah was as he's coming up this has brought to my attention I don't know a few months back and I think that stop work order was whenever that was was when I really started becoming familiar but it was related to the silt fence yes Robert DKI building official um so I wasn't here the house was built when I got here so but since then there was a silt fence issue that we addressed it was fixed and now the silt fence is in its proper application currently um we had some other issues I think early on I wasn't here but when they did do the uh Foundation height in the in the fill there was a stop work done then and then that was addressed and then it moved forward from there once that was addressed so other than the silt fence are were has there been any since then for the Code Compliance uh there's been a couple of cod compliance issues they weren't sto worked but they were addressed there were some pipes drainage pipes that were moved towards the fence that we had the code enforcement go out take a look at told the owner they moved the pipes so those were addressed thank you and today it's at of the last I guess inspection it is in compliance it's in compliance as of today okay I have a list if you'd like them this is a excuse me a list of all the inspections that have been done and all the permits that have been pulled I think that would be very helpful thank you is it one copy yes one copy in two thank you yeah I will uh pass this why don't we start down there and pass it back this way uh okay and yeah the the issues around this property hopefully uh we can figure out I I think changing the code and some of the comments we heard is really good moving forward projects are underway as we speak uh but it just doesn't make sense to me um and and that's where I think we as a city really got to overc communicate with the residents here I think that that's where a lot of the tension will arise is that we will meet um and I think as we heard from Miss Dean today's state that and and even miss Denny at at some point we start to all get involved and and that this is and then it ends up on a meeting and so whatever we can do sorry um to to make sure that that we're staying in front because because I think this one's been on the radar for a while and when those denials back for whatever reason attempt one attempt two for a pool and U the chairman of our pnz board talked about a there's another property I guess with a pool in the yard and I I drove by it not not an engineer but it's certainly if it was my neighbor I would be concerned and I think that's how we're all trying to treat it today as if it was our neighbor and if there's anything more and more exhaustive um inspection that would allow you to uh for budgetary get more resources uh to to take a deeper test inspections whatever you have at your disposal um I I would think that that would be a good idea as far as tasking that the department I don't I think it's we're saying we're going to test the city manager that we we can figure out what's going on because it it's the documents that were provided I can't remember on the photographs or of three properties 2020 build a 2021 build and another 2020 build 321 Coral 393 Coral 8811 seashell Drive the grade height of those I guess the question is is why aren't other properties built up this high and and why is that inconsistency there if so it seems like people would all you know continue to build higher if they could and so how did these current projects get done uh and some of the questions was what was the grade high it could requirement when this house was built and so I'll pass this down this was provided to me was it Miss one of the was it you miss okay I'll pass we can go down and back but those are the three and I think May for Tim K might have reference that as well um is there anything we're missing that we can do a lot of times we're kind of pulling and trying to figure it out and can you help with anything I I would just say that this house is under construction meaning that the storm water Provisions are actually not in place yet there's a temporary silt fence in place that's keeping the silt from going off the property but it doesn't keep water from going off the property that's not its design it's just for silt so once all those uh you know swells are in place and it's all complete then it will it will perform its proper function but currently it's not doing that because it's under construction so the swells haven't been dug out they haven't they don't retain the water so I think as soon as they get as we get closer to final and those things get in place I think it will get better thank you the common sense if I pull my hose out and I'm spraying water on the neighbor's property that's not allowed and I know understand but just that that basic understanding of the neighboring properties CU we're here on some other properties too um have a responsibility to contain their storm water yes and I also think Communication in this case and overcommunication as you said will help and ban if you will assign a team member perhaps Robert or someone else and a point person among the residents who are here tonight perhaps Miss Dean if you want to be that point person for regular communication and update on a perhaps weekly basis to make sure that all all concerns are addressed we know what happened out there this week that kind of a thing communication will help a lot I agree with that and I think that if we can have the property owner or developer like every every perspective at the table I think that would be productive so we'll make an effort to do that agreed let's let's do that and the last resource City attorney have you been involved in this project it I I think it would be a mistake to not get you involved immediately um if that's a task of the council at least to review it and to to your perspective to uh our community and economic development director bana's P Point um Council City attorney yes I um I think I asked to is also um the difference when when you guys denied the poll and then you approved the poll the changes that were made from that denial to the approval how did they change their plan or whatever to be in compliance to get an approval we'll send that to you as well as the residents that we have thank you yeah and it was my understanding looking at the record that those requirements were met and so then they approved the pool there were some concerns those were addressed and then the pool was approved and you're asking for what those concerns were yes okay yes well thank you all for the sake of time I I suggest that we uh try to move on uh same as we've done for previous items if we would need to continue to keep this in front of us thank you mayor ptim for for putting this on the the agenda and thank you all for coming and and speaking on the isue coming and I hope that we can help you out there yes thank you okay are there any other comments before we move on seeing none that concluded item number was that 13 yeah lost my sheet there for a second give me one moment okay so we now have 13 done and then we added on what is uh we're calling 15 and we agreed I think to take that one after this uh this was an an add-on item I believe we got consensus for uh and just to be clear we do have consensus before to to to to to add this on I did we all receive the email uh from Miss rosenka and Mr Mr go I think we all were copied um this is discussion on the w w Village at this time we do have two cards um council member Jackson I know you uh made the motion to to add this on are there any other comments that you want to make I would like to give uh Mr zanka and Mr Gul an opportunity to speak and that's what I wanted to do um but basically I would like to take a look at this and getting it in front of council because it's been going on for quite some time it would be a great um addition to our city with some of the things that um are being discussed uh so we need to work and uh give this the attention that it needs so that we can get Mr G moving forward with this project so I thought bringing it in and letting everyone discuss it and getting it to us is uh important so that we can Hammer this out and get this done thank you Council any further discussion before we allow public comment I'm kind of hesitant to do this because we have to remember that council is councel and administrate and then there's ad an ad administrative stuff that is that you know Tod handles and the staff Handles in the past we have never dealt or interfered with any anything that is with this or anything like this until there's been a final proposal my understanding they're going back and forth and with Anthony and they have not settled on anything and I don't mean this this company in particular I mean in general just because they don't like the answers that they're getting from staff does not mean they should be able to come to councel and we interfere with the process that they're doing I think this is an administrative thing I don't think we should get involved until it's the very end and let them do their agreements and disagreements and get it settled so I think we're getting into grounds that we shouldn't be in thank you council member Davis okay any other comments before um uh my my comment I'd actually like to address that before we go to public because I think it's important because I think you're suggesting to to move forward under interference of some sort I see no interference um I want residents just like the Coral Drive I want uh businesses within our community just like the ones we've seen in the past to come the exact opposite respectfully of what you said is it who else do they go to when they get to a point and from my understanding of this is that the other side development Agreements are not approved by the city manager no I understand that but it's administrative but this has been ongoing because the the plan has been expired and extended and expired and extended and now they're having a difference of U opinion on how it should be settled that we normally don't get involved in that's what I'm saying when it's it's City policy on how they usually um do this type of thing and they want to change it something different yeah there's a but there's a point and from my understanding what I was going to say is that the the property owner the business into this case and uh reached a point to where they they are ready to bring the proposal to the council despite any uh uh concerns that I see but it hasn't been approved we approve I know but it hasn't had any final approval through the staff we are the final approval but usually it goes through staff I think yeah there there's there's no recommendation yet from City staff that's not required by code at some point especially the history of this this project uh there's a point to where the property owner and this isn't specific to this can only get so far and and I think you're exactly right they may not like mutually each other's uh point in the road at that point that the the private property owner pursuing the development agreement in legal council how it's it's appropriate at that point to bring it to the council under this case you may have more information on this than I do so I'll go ahead and listen I mean because I don't have all the details it was it was uh for a lack of better words the the original development agreement took some time it was in a standoff and it was not moving this was former city manager um it was brought to the council I had no idea the council had no idea there was a pending development agreement and upon reading it the council approved and move forward with it uh we've reached a point here to where time has become the issue for my understanding and I think the private property owners from from my understanding uh went far back uh started this process a long time ago and today they are requesting the council to review and so with that um I just didn't want to proceed without understanding that that I think we are the only place they can go at this point yeah but my understanding is they want to instead of go by years of you know to develop the next phase they want to go by occupancy when the city has always gone by years not by occupancy so that is City policy that's not something you know so anyway let's just go forward and hear everybody body out and I could be wrong or whatever but let's just hear it out thank you m okay any other comments Mr zenka good evening mayor member of City's Council uh Kim rosenka Lacy L renka 1290 US1 in rockl Florida I'm here on behalf of OG Enterprises with me is uh is my client uh MOS it's interesting as I Was preparing for this tonight I went back to August 20th of 2019 where we did this exact same thing because we couldn't get Mr Green to move us forward and it was because at that point it was it was Mr Green it wasn't Mr Morley I I don't want to put him in that same light in any respect but I mean I was looking at my notes and it was because we couldn't get the city staff to move and we've now been talking to City staff about a minut ending this since February 6th of this year and we've had many reiterations we started with just a one-page Amendment and uh Mr gargany thought it would be easier to do it in a full amended and restated so that took some time we've had some site plan changes and the need for this is the concept has changed the times have changed since this came in 2019 and as you may know he wants to do a food Hall Mr go to a food Hall he wants to change the elevations a bit actually make it more attractive especially now that Central Boulevard is the town center and there's been a change in your vision there's been changing a lot of different things in the town since 2019 uh Mr G has not intentionally delayed we've had covid as you all are aware we had Central Avenue that the whole street was busted up for storm water there was some issues with that in infrastructure that was not done properly and cut off Mr G's property from the storm water system so this has been a long process and now Mr G has this vision and he want wants you all to see it and we we've been asking to get to City Council um as recently as October 4th we met with the city and said hey this is what we want to do they don't agree with it I'll agree but I think this is only your second Port of Call development agreement in the city so it's not a policy that it's never it's not done it's just never been done and uh so we're here to try to get move forward we'd actually like you to hear it tonight we're prepared to go forward I see no evidence of why we can't I know Mr gin is will say that there's a due process issue and your code does have a due process provision but it doesn't apply to development agreements in my opinion I know that's probably not something you guys are going to want to do but your next meeting I can't be there uh and so a special meeting that was intended on the 12th I can't be there I'm at Bard County Commission so we would like to go forward we would like to show you what we are thinking and if you disagree and choose to go with your staff we understand but we need to get before you so he can move forward yes this has expired but we started this back in February never thought we'd still be here talking about it in November we thought we'd be moving on we'd be in site plan approval and U Mr G has spent over $500,000 in plans for this phase two and we want to move forward and I'm not saying that's on you so with that um we'd like to be heard tonight if you're not willing to do that I understand but we do need to get this move forward sometime in December that's acceptable to all the parties that need to be there thank you thank you Mr Gul uh thank you thank you Council for hearing me tonight uh I'm here ready to present the project if that's something you guys want to do or if it's something that you want to table we will accommodate that as well um I'm here to answer any questions I'm here to to uh fill you in Kim Davis uh I know you're fairly new here on the council but this has been uh ongoing for about 5 six years uh and I just want to be heard um staff and I could have our disagreements that's fine but ultimately it's Council who decides the direction of uh the future of Cape Canaveral and I hope to be a big part of that and if the city council doesn't agree that's absolutely fine I have other uh uh things that I could do on my property uh but I am trying to be committee oriented if if you do uh just look a little bit at what we do and how we do we do everything with community in mind uh perfect example is Coco Beach if anybody heard about the controversial uh parking garage uh even though I got a 50 uh approval on a parking garage the community uh really disliked it and I ended up uh yanking that because I do believe obviously in making money because I am a developer but I do believe in uh creating nice Community oriented spaces which is exactly what I'm trying to do here all I'm asking is to be heard if you don't like what I'm proposing that's absolutely fine and uh I will respect that decision I just want to be heard thank you and and I think uh Council decides we can I'm sorry consider that and come back to you okay thank you so my issue with this was uh that the starting back in February there was a request to be placed on the agenda um from from the email correspondence that I reviewed provided by our city manager I think that they did their part and they responded very quickly in the comments we heard earlier about not getting calls back from citizens that's where that's where I take issue you take out the specific technical issues it's that that responsiveness and for them to reach out I think to to the council I knew it it didn't come before patience and so I think I think that was demonstrated I'm still not clear why this was not placed on the agenda because tonight uh was the opportunity and now they're fighting and asking for a space that I think by right and and far I mean it it why could we not add them to the agenda was it because we weren't ready based on the terms we did not have a uh finalized development agreement proposal ready to present my and I think that my understanding is that the the property owners presented the development agreement and said we want this the city says no and they say well we're basically done at this point they they do not agree with the the the response and at that point they have a right to go to the the city Council the exact issue in 2019 and that that's where that's where I got involved and and I when I learned that from Mr Gaul and immediately brought it to your attention and the email Mr zenka finally sent us they they had an opportunity to be heard and this was an example of where I think the council wouldn't have known I had no idea that something was pending at this this point I don't think any of the council would have known because they respected that they didn't reach out to the council and there's folks out there that do that they're telling everybody all the time they respected the process and I'm not sure about the due process applicable to development agreements but I like Clarity on that I would like to learn about this project I think they deserve the opportunity if City staff has an issue I asked an email a couple days maybe there was a response I didn't see it is what are the specific ific issues with this agreement and I don't think I've gotten a response and the City attorney can talk about the due process the process and also the specific issues if you care to ask him um yes if there's any technical issues but the idea to to push it is going to to I think it's going to it's going to be basically a year they brought this up in February so City attorney I think that would be helpful the the the the points uh within the development agreement where the city uh does not agree or yet still working through how much more time do we need and how how can we move this along um okay [Music] so let me address it this way I think back in I think was back in October of this year we had a meeting uh with Mr Gul and and his attorney for and Mr rosenka uh went over the project again and as Mr renka indicated we did an amended restated um Port of Call agreement um I mean the P AOL agreement is is I would say 95% complete the there were some technical inconsistencies in the exhibits we received those I believe on November 1st um I haven't had a chance to really kind of hone in on it since it wasn't put on the agenda but it looked to me at first glance that they addressed the inconsistencies um so the only issue um for the council and there's a disagreement between your your staff and and the applicant is the um phasing schedule for phases three and four um phase two phasing schedule um and the other amendments to the agreement I don't think the staff has any issues with it's just again the phasing schedule phase three and four Mr Gul uh proposes a phasing schedule um based on occupancy of all the previous phases so phase two would be based on a calendar time period that he would file applications two no later than two years after the effective date of this amended and restated agreement then and he would move forward with um phase two and then phase three would be based on occupancy um of phases one which is the existing building that's been in place for years um and phase two and um you know staff recom uh position has been that's a little complicated that o determining occupancy for the next phases um something that the city hasn't done presents some challenges regarding that determination and would prefer to have calendar dates so uh this based on the city manager's um suggestion I went back and presented um an 8-year calendar um date between phases two and three and then phases three and four and that was rejected and resulted in the email that we received um asking and requesting to be put on the agenda so the the the only issue that I'm aware of that that staff has a disagreement with again is the phasing schedule between 3 and 4 Mr G's proposing this occupancy methodology staff was proposing eight years and that's the disagreement Todd I don't know if I think I covered the disagreement at this point I mean assuming that the exhibits you know staff is okay with the amendments to the exhibits I mean there were some you know there was some inconsistency there that I picked up that had to be cleaned up and you they did provide it on on November 1st the revised exhibits they have up to eight years do pH two well that's the staff went back um to um the last time staff went back was eight years now there is a we also had an issue um that we resolved in our October meeting because a phasing schedule shouldn't be open-ended I mean if the council's going to agree to a development agreement that needs to be at least some concrete deadline and the way the agreement is is worded um we put in that concrete deadline between phases it's rather lengthy time period um but nonetheless it is a definitive time period that if they don't make that phase by a certain time period then either party would have the ability to terminate the agreement or propose an amendment to the agreement to address it you know whatever the issues may be at that time so it's really a phasing schedule issue now due process this is a portol agreement there are no specific notice Provisions in the um city code regarding the council's consideration of a portol agreement given that that's the only issue technically there aren't any local notice requirements or statutory not notice requirements for this amended restated uh development agreement nonetheless it is a Land Development issue and you know you know adjoining property owners and property owners in the vicinity tend to like to know what's going on um and being proposed for development before the council takes final action I'll leave it to you whether or not you want to uh um under these circumstances move ahead and trying to make a decision tonight or whether you want to put it on a subsequent agenda that has a little bit more formal notice than what was provided this evening thank you very much that was helpful I'd like the opportunity for either Mr G or Mr renka to either confirm or clarify anything that was just said as far as the sticking point between phase three and phase 4 and yeah I guess the notice is a separate but is that no I actually think Mr gesi did a very exceptional job of narrowing it down I mean we wanted to be on the agenda they said eight we came back and said 10 if you can get us on the agenda for this uh tonight and we it was November 11th staff was an in and then I was told on the 12th it was too late and I wasn't clear why it was too late so other than that yes I mean that's basically the the phrase what's what's happened and that is the phasing is the only issue remaining and how to uh evaluate the time frames for the phasing with the occupancy and and which actually we have done occupancy Mr G and I for his up in Titusville for a grant program through the north perard Economic Development Zone very similar to an occupancy and Workforce calculation so that's why we were able to come up with those forms and the thought process behind it so it's not unheard of to do it based upon occupancy thank you it it was certainly new to me to me it was not as much I didn't I wasn't concerned about the the time in between the phases which I guess collectively it's more about you know if we if we approve a development agreement that's you know doesn't have an end date it's 20 years later you know who knows what the city's like and they haven't you know even started the project just the end termination date of whenever that that would uh come to an end if development is not completed by I I certainly think that makes sense by a certain end date in between the phases I think the original development agreement you know it was a couple of years I think we learned to the point we haven't done a lot of these and so the the city is at eight years and the property uh Mr Gaul uh is it it's 10 years and that's that's the the Delta the difference right now 10 years between two and and a ma okay so City attorney 10 years between phases two and three I guess that's a counter uh or no did we suggest eight years between phases two and three and then 8 years between three and four yes so the way it would work would be 2 years for phase two mhm then eight or 10 years between two and three and then another 8 to 10 years between three and four now phases three and four are the um vacation apartment rental buildings as defined in the agreement one of the reasons I wanted to do an amended restated agreement just so you know is most of you weren't on the council when the original one was so having an amended and restated agreement gives you the complete picture of the agreement as amended rather than just a pinprick um Amendment showing only the amended sections you wouldn't be able to get your head around the entire agreement without reviewing it so you that was one of the reasons why you know I went recommended that route um so yeah that that's that's the that's the issue I mean if if the council's all right with 10 years between phases three and four and assuming you know upon final review by staff that the exhibits are correct I mean I we're I mean we're arguing about nothing um plus he has a proposal I mean he has a presentation and I'm sure he's probably knowing him he's probably itching to show everybody publicly what he wants to do for this project but um I'll leave that leave that to you and and the last thing I'll say on this is you know 10 years eight years there's a vested interest to want to get this done as fast as possible from more on on their side than ours because today just owns land pays taxes on it that land doesn't generate very little if any revenue for them and so at some point they want to convert that liability or that ass into it grow grow that into something and I think the thing that you know the location of this from a notice perspective I mean 2019 we talked about this I would like to uh certainly give uh Mr Gul the opportunity to to present um what was provided in the email or or Miss rosenka um I think I might have been the only one on to your point City attorney and and I think uh mayor Tim Kellum came on shortly after this yeah and so that makes sense and and that was a big part of that you if we go back two weeks ago before the agenda cut off the city was has made a little bit of progress but in the future it would make sense to me that that we we try to to get this in front of the council and say here's where we're stuck and we could have this conversation and it would afford this Council the opportunity to read it and um that's it so Council if we want um I know it's 8:24 now we got to watch the clock this was an issue that came in as an add-on but I think they've we've identified a very small difference it I think it's a matter of getting comfortable with with the project and whatever we need to do to do that I think is of Interest the a proposed date later in the month I think is an issue with them plus you know in my opinion is we the council are need to I think be here absolutely um and and I would if if it if more time is needed I I'm thinking in days not weeks uh to come in as a standalone only and and to to knock this out or whatever else is needed I think it's a win for everyone yes council member Willis we do have 123 available 12 December 3rd yeah and that would afford US to properly advertise what it's going to be and it gives both Miser zinka and uh Mr gargany a chance to go back and iron out if there is really any difference but we will be portraying it to the community that this is going to be happening this is going to be the presentation it'll be out there for everybody to know what's happening and it gives them a chance to prepare us to be in the mindset and uh I think it uh I think we can reach a resolution we we did a matrix um of staff and a city attorney's availability to see what ones worked out and the only one that worked out for everybody was was the 12th there's varying degrees of availability for others but who who must be here a majority of the council I think it's important the City attorney be here December 3rd yeah I don't know if I told you I I had a meeting but it's been rescheduled so I'm available on December 3rd will this be open to the public yes yeah that's that's new that's good news because uh I think everyone well Brianna are you available on the third not after uh work hours I'm not that day so I think everybody else could be here except Ranna on the third um what I don't want to just to stretch out for us to come back in and go 810 do we have an issue I think what's most important is that we all read this agreement and that we we've seen the position of um Miss Ranka and and Mr Gul bet I think we heard tonight the position of the city 8 and 10 [Music] Council I mean that's 12 days away um I think we need to talk to the property owners now and see whether or not that that would work um the date yes December 3rd is being considered to bring it back um yes ma' that date would work yes sir let's just be extra cautious and have a back up to if not the third when would be a second I don't have any problems with any date okay and that's the soonest we can meet is the third when's that the 10th de 10th December oh December 10th is an option just throwing out a date later okay so at 10th could potentially work if the third is not good and the third is the soonest we can do with your scheduled changes City attorney by phone U I'm not sure I'll be available on the 10th right now I I have a meeting my calendar at 6 I certain I can do um I can I can do time before that but I can't do so what about on that day on that on the 10th yeah okay well if it started what Monday I have another meeting at I think we could look at the fourth and the fifth the fifth is uh boa meeting about the 11th that's Planning and Zoning Board is the third for Miss renka yes it's the time on the third the issue Mr City attorney oh I can make the third at the council's normal meeting time if that's the time you want to set on the 10th and on the 9th on 9th I'm not available the 10th the meeting would have to be um earlier in the afternoon for me to attend because I have a a conflict at at 6: p.m. okay so it sounds like I mean we're the 19th today it's Tuesday next Tuesday's the 26th that would give one week notice we would have a standalone meeting to come in if anything add on if we're going to do that I'd like to take advantage of um possibly holding a CRA special meeting for an item a housekeeping item that Brianna Lear F conference needs to be addressed we could possibly knock that out in the same day very quickly well I think we can add on that and maybe then but my importance is that's the first item banna's not here right on the third here oh okay well so well for this item my only concern for staff operations wise was the occupancy so that's not part of it I don't need to be there and for the CRA meeting um I'm preparing it but Anthony could probably speak to it in my absence that's a good point I mean if the city staff makes a recommendation and the property owners have no issues it comes down to this account just doing their due diligence making sure that we're reviewing everything and we understand what we're agreeing to and we can move forward um okay so would council member Davis be able to call in no so we have four out of the five for the third um the ninth was suggested or or uh I I how about this let let's go for the third unless there's a another date that's mutually agreeable by the other parties where all the council can make if they agree uh then then I think we can do that sure in a CR board meeting on the third as well well have to be no she can prepare the item and Anthony can present it if he's okay with that when yeah when it's finalized sure I mean I can I I can present anything this would be a special meeting I prer to be here a special meeting under the city council's purview and yeah I think with during reports let's do a c or discuss that as well okay uh I think that's good um okay what council we've all received the presentation um I I would be willing to to listen to it uh if we want I maybe we'd take a break and we've got the rest of the agenda items s and eight both on second reading of public hearing and we have one uh item for Action I don't I think these are going to move pretty uh quick and uh two discussion items or excuse me three do the presentation on the thir if we're having a meeting about this that makes more sense to us is that good for youall public will be yes and I would like for people to see what we're seeing in the presentation because one of the concerns that citizens have continually brought up to me is the fact that we've got so many hotels up there now and you hear them all the time and even online no more hotels so this brings a different flare and that's why I wanted to to look at how we can work together to to make sure that we're covering what needs to be covered it gives us ret h space that's very much needed in our area and some different things like that rather than just another hotel going on that corner options for restaurants as well yes so I think that working together is you know a good thing so I would like for people to have the opportunity to see that be noticed and know that that's going to be discussed so they can be an active participant in something going on in their city that could end up being something really beneficial possibly so there is no other Bri I would like to hear the presentation I would like to have information too he sent it to us an email I know but I would still like to be here I understand if I'm the only one that can that's the only day I'm sure you would like to be here too well I think that the the presentation was sent to us in the slide format Mr G's willingness or M renas to present that to the public was what they wanted to do today that was a big part of their request and they and they met the deadlines to do that and so I'm not this is an after effect in my opinion they met the deadlines and it it got stuck for whatever reason um we have the third it's got some limits I think City staff will work and try to find another date maybe that more people I would like to not I'm sorry Bri we met I was double booked so I remember I had an interview that's true I remember we only talked about your other project I think we should go with the third unless there's you know because then you're getting into the Christmas season and people are busy and the third is good it gives us time for the public to get here if it's on a special meeting about this and more people will come to see what's happening I think it's a great project and it's What the residents are asking for more retail more restaurants you know I think it's a good project but I I'm I think the third would work the best okay M propose something uh Kim if you would like I could give you a presentation uh anytime you would like and Bri could be present over there I could whenever you would like I give you a presentation so you know exactly what I'm mayor is it um accurate for me to say that we have consensus to have the CRA board meeting at 5: on the 3 and this meeting at 6 on the 3 yes I as long as the CRA item isn't going to be we come up to that S I don't want to put pressure on that that's fine okay thank you that helps us a lot I don't think it's a major issue the major time issue is doing the staff report Gathering writing the resolution with Anthony in advance of next Tuesday so the the reserve date council member Willis brought to our attention 123 and I think our city manager did message earlier on this I don't know if there was that date so thank you um and and if there's another date that's good do we need a motion for the third I think consensus consensus any any opposed okay City attorney I think for that for that meeting um based on you know the applicants um comments we'll go ahead and prepare um a final draft and then the council at the at the meeting can decide what it wants to do uh with respect to the phasing eight years 10 years or whatever um could leave a little blank there for you to decide and we can fill that in later but so I think the council's given us some direction on on the calendar dating rather than the occupancy that fair fair to say okay anything else Mr zenka Mr Gul anything else on your side thank you both appreciate your patience thank you no issue with those dates city manager are we good good works works for us schedule it thank you okay uh so jumping around we have knocked out uh item the or item number I shouldn't have called it 15 because we have a well it would have been 15 to move that one to 16 the add-on items has been hand uh addressed we've rescheduled that meeting I think which was the original intent of that and the public will have the opportunity to get involved on December 3rd and we've handled item 13 um which now we're jumping back up correct me if I'm wrong to the public hearing portion of the meeting correct that we following the maze correctly item seven is next it's 8:40 I uh need to take a quick break if anyone else if if we want to proceed mayor protim Kellum you can continue or we can take five and come back together U I need two minutes 3 minutes at most so um I'm if we all want to take a I'm off for taking a break been a while but I'm older and I need more want to hold this up okay two minutes it's 8:39 let's try to be back well before 8 8:45 what 8:43 okay that's better 843 okay I'll make that e e e e e e e e e e e e e e it's 8:47 7: p.m. I call the meeting back to order reconvening we are at the public hearing portion of the meeting we got two public hearing items the first is numbered 7 on the agenda ordinance number 202 24 Mr City attorney this is ordinance 20-22 24 an ordinance of City Council of the City of Cape canab bravar County Florida amending chapter 82 buildings and building regulations to adopt regulations to allow the constru struction and installation of rooftop amenities on multif family mixed use and commercial buildings which satisfy the requirements set forth in this ordinance providing for the repeal of Prior and consistent ordinances and resolutions incorporation into the code severability and an effective date this is second and final reading of this ordinance also it's a public hearing item as you know um the council requested some changes to the um to the ordinance during first reading staff has um identified and described those changes in the agenda item um in addition there was a little bit of word smithing that I think the manager want us to go over um um that was made to the ordinance after the agenda went out um other than that uh the ordinance is ready for a final consideration by the city council mayor thank you City any questions city manager yeah the uh word smithing that I discussed uh with so the the request for that was that we just simply say the light source or the light must be compliant with City's Turtle lighting code that could be you know one of those Amber lights or red lights I forget what spectrum Brian knows what color Turtles don't get attracted to is it red or is it yellow Amber Amber yeah so I mean they could have that and it be compliant with the turtle lighting code so I think that's a a good clarification and I do have another one um mayor that um I haven't had a chance to discuss with the city attorney if I could bring that up now it's very it's a minor one I think if we go to page two of four of the ordinance Mia um starting on line 40 40 yes sir um so 40 reads when the rooftop amenities are constructed and installed on a multif family building or for residents living in a mixed use building the ameni Shall Serve the use and enjoyment of all residents and shall not provide exclusive use to any specific units I think in context that mean when we say all residents we mean all residents of that building but it could be misconstrued in the future as a standalone statement shall be use in benefit of all residents meaning anybody who's a resident of the City of Cape canaval so I think we should just clarify that Anthony does that make sense yeah I mean if that's what you want to do sure my my proposal would be the amenity Shall Serve the use and enjoyment of all of the residents of the facility building of the building yeah one more time um in insert in line 42 enjoyment of all of the residents of the building online 42 add in of the building yeah after the word residence okay City attorney that's okay from your yeah that's okay from my perspective and that's all I had mayor as the City attorney said those uh the changes were enumerated um and we could go over them there there's six of them there some of them were just actually taking things away from the ordinance because we had regulations that already covered that uh for instance sign ordinance we didn't need to have special sign ordinance regulations our sign ordinance takes care of that uh another one is the safety barrier regulations that's items three and four there in the middle of that page um because the building code takes care of the safety barrier regulations it's going to require a guard and a certain strength of that guard and how it's constructed uh and lastly the noise ordinance item five we we felt it wasn't necessar or the council directed it wasn't necess Neary to um have a special noise ordinance regulation because our existing noise ordinance would still apply and still be effective in this case so three four and five were were strikeouts removals from it the other ones um relies on the zoning ordinance floor area regulations um rather that was another strikeout too for maximum square footage um but we clarified and I want to review this one number two clarifying the allowance of a maximum size of both open air and covered structures so an open air structure would be like a gazebo rain can fall through it but a covered structure could be an enclosed structure where you actually go in the door in your an air conditioned environment so we clarified the size of that and that is um if we could go to page 304 Mia of the regulations over and specifically what it says on page 34 starting at line 12 says rooftop amenities may include open air shade structures such as Cabanas Gaz Zeos pergolas or trellises that are at least 50% open to the sky in addition one or more covered roof structures exclusive of elevators and stairwells may be permitted provided the total amount of the covered roof coverage does not exceed a maximum of 200 square ft so that's the maximum of that enclosed space and we we believe that's consistent with council's um Direction last time we heard this item covered covered covered or and or enclosed no just covered okay so the stairwell and the elevator thank you for that clarification and that's because there's a limitation in the building code for rooftop enclosures okay talking about roof uh roof uh covered roof structures and what section is that in um se6 yeah B6 b line 12 oh okay oh oh this page thank you I see it okay covered structure so will what would be the the change to these lines 12 Anthony can you discuss what it was before you recall or oh no this this as written is revised no clarification or toe ex needed to this the the I think the original just talked about um talked about the um open air shade structures with um at least you know at least 50% open to the sky that was in there then after the first reading I believe we had the discussion about um also providing the possibility of having a covered structure for example what we talked about was let's say there was a um a bar like a rooftop bar then the bar area while it's not completely enclosed can have a covered um roof structure to keep the elements off the bar so that would be U the way it's proposed not to exceed 200 square ft for um a covered roof structure that adds an additional amenity to the rooftop rather than just the um the open air air shade structures I think that's what right Brianna what we clarified list of types of uses that could be here were not changed um but is is just the structure so you know if you think of Ryan's Pizza in Cocoa Village um you know you've got your register there all your bottles and whatnot um napkins to you know not allow the elements to hit those you might have a bar like maybe Tiki Hut type whatever design they decide um but fully accessible withd doors on the sides the issues we heard are concerns from Miss schaer today public comment I was trying to jot and she spoke at length on the last one to as I understand uh the property that thate she owns now this she is allowed as a property owner today at that building without this to do a rooftop structured yeah I I I understand her comments so where she's located in the C1 District the maximum allowable height is 45 feet and she's well underneath that I'm going to say that she's probably at maybe 20 or 25 ft so her point if I understand what she's saying was she could do all of this now without having this code she what she's saying is she thinks this code should be defined or couched in language as being an an exception to height regulation and it's an interesting way to look at it and I would certainly like the city attorney's opinion on that we have a section of the code already in 110 about exceptions to height regulations and if if if it works out that way we could insert that in under that just a thought now there's there's there there's I mean we're so far down the road with this ordinance to then back up and then amend that section and my I don't think it would be a constructive use of time in my humble opinion but we went down this route as I think as the manager is alluding to because when tall structures are built up to the maximum height then they are limited as to what can go above the maximum height of the building per code and there are very specific limitations um so this ordinance started months and months and months ago on on going down the road of well let's just address the tall buildings adding additional rooftop amenities and that evolved through the process including at the planning and zoning board to open it up this ordinance to all uh rooftop amenities with some you know clear guidelines to assist uh property owners that want to have this type of amenity regardless of height so this ordinance is not only addresses those above maximum height buildings above maximum height but provides the guidelines to help guide people with doing a rooftop amenity and they're I think they're good the they good guidelines that have been discussed by the council by the Planning and Zoning Board um you know so I mean it's up to council but it it you know they are you supposed to be uniform guidelines they're not you know all-encompassing but they they lay out um a pathway a clear pathway uh for for building owners um eligible building owners to to do this rooftop amenity without imposing any real you know major restrictions I I think the the concern would be there is for instance a a building of 25 ft height where a 45t height building is allowed are they restricted by these restrictions for example the 200t roofed area I mean that's what do you mean restrictive I mean because every building is going to have limitations okay because there's utilitarian functions on the top of rooftops in many cases some buildings aren't even going to be able to accommodate according you know a building official could speak to that rooftop amenities because the way they're they're constructed um there are going to be limitations under the building code about keeping occupants away from certain utilitarian like equipment right that they're not supposed to be near so there there are a lot of restrictions for Public Safety purposes and occupancy limitations um that any building owner is going to have to jump through these these hoops with the building official so you know there are limitations this this ordinance proposes that if you're going to have coverage structures then yeah manager that they're going to be limited to a Max maximum of um of 200 ft Square fet um but it doesn't limit um I don't believe it a total amount of covered roof structure does not exceed maximum of 200 I'm not sure you we even discussed or interpreted this to mean that um you can't have more than one it's just you know providing some guidelines so it's up to council what you want to do um um if I didn't step on your toes there building official but I'm trying to because there are a lot of technical building code aspects to this so if the building in in a lower building and they build it up 25 feet they can put a a big addition on the roof because that's still allowed and then they can have a roof deck area that would be independent of this code adding a floor or adding a roof yeah because you're adding a floor you're not you're not adding a rooftop amenity at that point so you could you could have half the building say a bar and you walk out the doors onto the rooftop then the rooftop ordinance would come into play so there's lots of things you can do on a building that's not at its height restrictive height and I think this ordinance was intended to apply to buildings that are maxed out in height right that's what I'm saying number so those ones that aren't are have a lot of options and it I mean it could be simply that the um a um in the first part of it there m if you go back to page two on line 20 item a could the intent and purpose of rooftop men are utilize underuse rooftop space on buildings which are at the maxim maximum allowable height I think on B is where it would go cuz a is just the intent but B is where you okay B yeah B bur any commercial that are at the maximum allowable height and that that removes that story argument from lower buildings yeah yeah okay so the city I'm not sure I follow that what do you mean it removes the story there there are no if you want to build a story that's a that's a whole that's a whole story on top I mean if they're not at the maximum height a story is not a rooftop right correct that's what I'm saying you go half you could do half a story and the other could be rooftop that still would be allow that' be a deck it wouldn't even be a rooftop amenity at that point right this does not as I think what building official is trying to advise you is that this doesn't address or impose any limitations on a building owner's ability to add another story that's correct okay this is just about the the rooftop which is defined in the Florida building code as the top top deck right like a roof deck I think is the definition the final story yeah above the final story okay so the roof has to exist first before yes and and your the statement earlier about these being guidelines if if if there was new construction just say well there is uh happening around and they were to build at 25 ft and build a rooftop amenity from what I understood you were saying they would now still need to follow these guidelines even though they're under the 65 foot if it was a true rooftop amenity if it's if it's on the yes correct if it's on the roof deck but prior to this getting passed they still could have done it correct but this gives now city manager said some restrictions but I understood some well yeah I guess they have to be followed and down on line 27 gives us more definition of that because it says not intended increase the sto Building stories height or accommodate functions that could otherwise occupy enclosed spaces within the building such as but not limited to fitness centers Spas enclosed restaurants locker rooms retail shops and other similar uses so it's restricting it to it just being that rooftop amenity with whatever coverage over the roof so it's talking about enclosed spaces there because would be another story y right even if they only used a portion of that story and rooftop on the rest yep you can do that you can do that makes sense only in the economic overlay District recommendation of the planning and ZM in the in the charging language yes but in the little area of commercial outside of the uh overlay District under 45 foot they could still do a rooftop amenity correct but they would not be subject to follow this as long as it stayed within the height limitation within the height limit that' be correct they're not if they're not within the um overlay overlay not a lot of properties I think that okay that that was helpful um so under these scenarios where you're 65 foot they've already went to the community appearance board to get that right it's and and this would basically be an additional approval through the Cab community appearance board would this go through yes anything above that 45 ft for example on see1 I think the mayor means in the case of an existing building that's already built would the rooftop amenity have to go to the cab per our code um yes we do have the triggers it might also require site plan approval depending by by pnz recommended to staff depending on the scope and which is based on percentage of increase it requires approval just a matter whether it goes to the board or not and they have the ability to approve cab can approve or deny and planning and zoning can recommend to staff so once this goes out it's it if if passed these aren't going to come back to the council we're basically given the unless there's an appeal or a plot variant okay okay that's great uh very helpful to understand Council Willis council member Jackson okay city manager anything else you need to clarify I don't know if there's anybody in the public that wants to speak to this yeah we we heard the comments earlier um yeah I think and and like all codes uh if we get down the road we we can run it back through the process and and try to to stay in front I'm very interested in the the um I think representative last time with the uh he said they were interested in it uh that was the first I that I had heard and I and I think we'll learn a lot from from are they they here today yeah oh you are oh that's great I this is a public hearing item yes it is thank you city manager let's go ahead and uh put this out to the public thank you very much and can I can I add Clarity um at the planning Z zoning meeting the consensus of course was to add the EOD requirement but that to see how it's doing and come back and potentially expand it okay Council any we'll go to public hearing this is open to the public item number seven ordinance number 2024 if anyone would like to speak on this item you can come forward now okay with that we'll go ahead and close public hearing bring it back to the council make a motion we uh adopt ordinance number 2024 on the second reading I'll second ments with with amendments he said yeah manager enumerated just want to clear m per Tim Kellum yeah with the uh with the changes or the amenities that I mean the changes that we made to the language uh about the turtle turtle lighting and also about uh residents of the building yes okay okay city clerk was that clear got a motion by mayor Pro Tim Kellum second by council member Davis any further discussion seeing none city clerk council member Davis four council member Jackson four mayor protim Kellum four mayor Morrison four council member Willis four all right ordinance 202024 passes on second final reading as amended which brings us to the second and final public hearing item ordinance number 21 2024 City attorney right this is ordinance number 21-2024 second and final reading and um second ordinance of the city council the City of Cape canaval Florida amending section 54-7 of the city code related to hours of operation and general use of city parks the city electric vehicle charging stations providing for the repeal of Prior inconsistent ordinances resolutions Corporation into the codes severability and an effective date again this is second final uh reading also public hearing item there haven't been any changes since the council passed this on first reading at the last meeting mayor thank you City attorney city manager no no change to this at all from last reading mayor okay we're on item number eight public hearing item any technical questions for City staff Council before we go to the public council member Jackson just a technical question on um page two of three under e other terms of conditions of usage um are those Parks correct with those hours do we need to update that I believe what a previous resolution it's not the current one yeah it's the previous version and I'm wondering if we need to update that previous resolution okay so you reference attachment one yes thank you no attachment two sorry you're right attachment two page two of three and then okay good and so so uh yeah I don't think that's the curent exactly I don't think that's the current charging rate resolution that's the old one yes I think that's council member Jackson question update the old one there was some discussion we went back and looked at the old one um to see whether or not that needed to be amended in light of the council considering the ordinance um you know that's before you for second reading tonight and we determined that it was already covered um in the new rate resolution which unfortunately is not attached to your agenda package so I think um if this ordinance passes the the rate resolution is is currently adequate okay okay thank you I just was curious about that so I mean when we look at attachment to the resolution the changes for the sake of time that we want to make there's not a big difference here right it just be the or do we need to to wait if it's not substantial we've done this in the past City attorney I don't know if he has the resources made with to to make those changes if they're not substantial today could even or do we want to no I think the mayor I think the um the ordinance as presented is correct the the the ordinance states that um um you know as you well me back up the the ordinance today says that the city council by resolution or the city manager by administrative rule May adopt extended hours um in city parks on a case-by casee basis if legitimate circumstances warrant hours of operation different than those set forth in paragraph a of the of this section and when the city council considered the rate resolution for EV charging stations the most current one the council established extended hours for EV charging stations in Parks mhm so that resolution was passed okay this ordinance now adds some language saying that you know those the legitimate basis includes but not limited to um allowing certain limited areas within a c city park to be open for extended hours to allow the charging of electric vehicles at city-owned or controlled electric vehicle charging stations etc etc so all this ordinance does is it expressly states that extending the hours in parks for EV charging station is a legitimate basis for extending the hours which the council determined in the last rate resolution was appropriate okay so that's what this ordinance does all right thank you thank you any other technical questions for City staff seeing none this is a public hearing item we are on item number eight ordinance number 21 2024 open to the public if anyone would like to comment please come forward seeing none we'll go ahead and close the public participation portion of the meeting back to the council make a motion we adopt ordinance number 21 2024 I'll second got a motion by mayor protim Kellum got a second by council member Willis any further discussion city manager are you good yes sir City cler council member Davis four council member Jackson four mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison four council member Willis four ordinance 21224 passes 5 which brings us item number nine that concludes our public hearings items for Action we have one tonight appointed council member as the 2025 alternate delegate to the space cush Transportation organization governing board representing the north Beach's Coalition we're at 919 PM think we can do this city manager yes sir yes sir um currently council member Willis serves as this we're in the second year of our alternate and um I believe council member Willis is willing to serve um you can confirm that um and then appoint any person the council desires to to fill that yes thank you council member will has she been serving assuming you're willing to serve again uh yes I would love to continue serving um wanted to add to it that uh the U secretary for District 5 appointed me to the uh District 5 um safety planning committee for all of Central Florida and I am the only representative from Bard County that's fantastic but Cape Canaveral is the number one priority so I'm willing to serve if Council would like for me to in the event that council member Willis is not able is that addressed here that the Coco Beach we're the alternate so Coco Beach would handle those duties and it it can't go to one of us it has to go to Coco Beach's first right of refusal yes sir okay as it historically um we tend to be representative each time mhm because there's not perfect attendance on all fronts there so okay I make a motion that we appoint U council member Willis to the alternate I'll second that motion as written no changes I think right mayor protim motion by mayor protim Kellum and a second by council member Jackson to appoint council member uh as written which is the 2025 alternate delegate to the Space Coast Transportation Planning organization governing board representing the north beaches Coalition just reading the item there any further discussion City or manager sir okay with this yes go city clerk council member Davis for council member Jackson for mayor protim Kellum for mayor Morrison four council member Willis four pass is 5 council member Willis thank you for your willingness to step in and do that take time out of your day and schedule and then very good news about more of a regional Florida representation on that Safety Committee that's excellent thank you for sharing that um okay so now uh unfinish business item number 10 uh we're at 9:22 and we have uh two items here item number 10 and 11 looking forward uh I just want to point item for discussion uh we've got item number 12 and 14 remaining so four more items total the first unfinished finished business item is discussion on City of Cape canaver Code Enforcement metrics and any applicable policies excuse me submitted by myself council member or mayor Morrison now this was postponed from the October 15 2024 meeting it's one that I put on uh I think we've had a chance to take a look one of the things I just want to EMP emphasize I did not get to I think introduce it last time was that this is just a start starting point I had a chance to meet with the city manager and uh Community uh development uh director bana and my message uh to both of them is you know it's it's not about getting maybe all these are a bad idea um it's about finding something uh maybe from here or an addition that all we're already doing we want to add on uh with the bana taking over that role um I know there's a lot of new things happening uh and and I just wanted to emphasize that I think the timing is is right to not necessarily implement but to at least plant the seed because this Council I think all of us at some point strategic planning meetings we talked about metrics and and things like that I had a good talk um Ranna went through each one of these and kind of provided a framework of of of how she thought about it I thought it was really helpful to see uh what what works and I think for today in the sake of time perhaps if okay maybe if we go down the line on these and give a just a quick we're going to we we're already doing that one this one we're looking into and and maybe ones that are not a good fit or any others maybe we want to consider adding so with that I should go city manager sure I'd like to turn it over to bana she's excited about doing metrics by the way thank you Rihanna the floor is yours I'll make it short and sweet um so I haven't looked at these I think since we met so I need to bring my brain back into this so um response time to complaints so that is something we do already measure um compliance rate that is also already measured and um this work is managed by our code enforcement manager and deputy director Brian he does a good job at keeping this thank you ask that um I didn't know you're walking up uh number of inspections conducted um that's also something and just we the way I approached it when I met with mayor Morrison was kind of like an a thought of what's the return on investment of dedicating staff resources to doing these things because um that we need to maximize field presence not office presence from the code enforcement staff for multiple Reasons I'm sure you all know um and so you know is it worth having another staff member working on this behind a computer when they could be out in the field enforcing storm water violations for example whatever it might be um we also have um three staff members that started this year as firsttime Code Enforcement Officers um who are still working on their certification first one set to have the the first class in January I believe um and the other two still on boarding um as well so we are getting the team together and I do believe it would be inappropriate to start measurements now because the data would be skewed because of all of those reasons um but is something that we'd like to start soon excuse me not start but build upon the efforts that Brian already does um so jop back on number four um repeat violation rate um I will let Brian address that because we we do already um have a mechanism through the special magistrate regarding that um community outreach he does oh all you know what I'm just going to pass it to you yeah um but I will add just real quick on number six resident satisfaction surveys are you're it's going to be very polarizing if you've been complained on you're going to give a bad review if you complain you're going to give a good review most likely so it's not something that uh we can really do anything with that data um and then cost of Code Enforcement per case is also done um at time of redu code reduction hearing um on a case-by Case basis and it is a very time consuming process for each case so I'll pass it over to our manager um yes everything that we look through on this it all takes um you it all takes a little bit of uh time to gather this information the uh system itself doesn't necessar it it gathers some of this information but then when we put it into our um what I do with the uh City manager's report that I do once a month that I sent to you guys once I put it into that it it creates that spreadsheet then I have to go in behind it and I have to create all those columns on the right hand side where it shows you all the calculations and I have to do all those calculations and then underneath where I put the averages kind of show you where we're at I have to calculate all that so more information that we add to these the more calculations that we have to do the more calcul or the more um Fields I have to add into a spreadsheet and stuff to that effect um so what I would like to do is and what I did with the city manager when we met we came up with the top stuff that we really want to track and we really want to keep eyes on um you know the time that it takes to get out there after a complaint's filed the time we go from that complaint to to the first notification the time that we go from that notification to the notice of violation so we can keep eyes on this so we're not having that repeat that we had before where we have this long case um you know process where it's taking forever to uh resolve these cases um there are I'm sorry the um just real quick with the uh repeat violation we don't have a huge amount of repeat violators a repeat violator is someone who's already gone to the special magistrate and been found in violation and then they reviol after they come into compliance that doesn't happen a lot of times once they go to the special magistrate and the special magistrate finds them a violation and they come into compliance they seem to stay in compliance after that because they speak to the magistrate the magistrate gives them the big you know you could be fined you could be leaned you could do this so that kind of gets them a little bit more motivated so we don't have a lot of repeat violators the um we can do the others like I said there are some others in there that we can do um I think we need to look at it as what we're doing now compared to this and like the mayor said maybe all maybe some of these aren't you know what we need to do we need to do look at something else um but I ask you to look at that spreadsheet that I send you if there's some things in that spreadsheet that you think well we really don't need that along with the city manager I know that we have we changed that spreadsheet what six seven times because we were like well maybe we really don't need to track this or there's a better way to summarize this information by color code or something like that exactly and I have done that for him I've color coded it I I didn't put color code on it for you guys cuz we didn't have that discussion and I didn't want it to get too busy in your what's going on here but I have done that for him I colorcoded it so the majority of the stuff you can go oh okay these are green they have they have permits on them they're waiting the permit because once a permit goes on it kind of takes out of our hand goes in the building official's hand and we wait until the building official says okay they've expired or I've revoked it or whatever um maybe doing something like that so you can quickly see you know what what we're what we're looking at but I want to make sure that the metrics that we're doing are really geared to improve our process and not just to do metrics I want to show and I do this because we do it once a month I bring the code officers in and I show them these metrics and I go over these metrics and I tell them this is look look at this and I I show them that outliers and I say look at this this is taking you too long this should have already been in in the special Magistrate's hands and it's actually working because the guys are coming to me now and going hey this has taken a while should I be doing something different with this and I say yes where are you at in the process oh well I just sent him a a comp or a courtesy notice okay you should have already been gone you you should have already gone to the notice of violation you take Tak too long we need to go ahead and get that out today so it's actually working because they're coming in and actually asking me what do we need to do what do we need to do and keeping me involved with all of their cases thank you it I yeah I was looking at it after a city manager and and it'll be a constant evolving process that I think we'll get better at and it's you know compared to what we were doing before even if it you know it's not where we want as an organization uh I would argue to anyone it's better than what we had at least we know now and we're working we and and we have a you know a new team um so thank you bana is there anything else on that um I would just say we do have uh leis was able to schedule us meetings to go over what's in the spreadsheet I think the it' be extremely helpful just to reiterate what Brian Mr Palmer said um officer Palmer that if you can let us know if what you're looking at and what you're not looking at because if we're doing unnecessary work we want to be more efficient with it also we have the bsna service um I Brian actually has hosted or offered to host a training for um all the new well the whole department and we're going to do that because there's got to be a way to automate some of the stuff in bsna hopefully there is and we're going to figure that out that's great and eliminating the need to customize after you export it takes time but within bsna might be able to get it where you hit a button and it's just the way you want it that takes time thank you automation's awesome um yeah and and I I mean just one of the initial things is and I talked to the city manager oppon my first review is it's really important that from that noov being sent compliance state established yeah yeah yeah that that was actually I would I forgot about that one the compli I mean that's important the goals compliance well you know how how do we measure that are we all saying the same thing thing and and understand it to be the same but from the time from notice of violation sent to a notice of hearing scent we weren't measuring that I don't think and that was a that one is more valuable I would say you could even add that one and probably eliminate to uh but for this it'll get bigger and wider and then we'll shrink it down I think over time but adding that one in I actually did it uh just added that column the very f just to see and so helpful to see I I don't mayor yes real quick officer Palmer yes just real quick when you um like that like the um the notice of violation to the uh the notice a hearing going out you know sometimes you'll have like I've discussed with the city manager sometimes you'll have those outliers and those need to be explained so when you're looking at a spreadsheet you don't see the explanations to those okay so I just want to make sure that everybody is aware that if you see those outliers and somebody wants information on that on hey why is this one here a notice of violation was sent out and the you know notice of hearing wasn't sent out you know within that time frame that you gave them there's a lot of outliers we have a just a real quick thing we have a a lady over in um Harbor Heights that we helped and we helped her get her lawn moded we helped her get her garage door fixed and everything it took a while but we helped we contacted people we got her in contact with people we got stuff like that so some of those cases do exist so if you see those and you reach out to me or one of my guys or or Brian we can we can explain those that's great yep and and they're just you have some serious life safety issues that you I noticed on some no courtesy letter sent I'm like actually you don't have to to send it and there's certainly almost irresponsible to send it you have to take action and so that changes the data too but potentially the second thing was flagging those types as hey this Pro the officer upon investigation believes this is going to follow a little bit more expedited process due to you know having life safety box checked or whatever is best but there's a few I could say you could eliminate and I will email those and I would just add that this spreadsheet is an outcome from the January 24th special meeting and it's been I think maybe four months or five months we've been putting it out there and as you said it continues to evolve it's a management tool and it's going to have some things that we we need to discuss internally but there are things there that may not apply to the council that you know we'd like to hear feedback if you you don't feel that's necessary we can take that out but Brian I just wanted to take the time time to personally commend you for your professionalism and dedication and getting us where we are thank you very much thanks it's a big difference and I want to provide some context as well um the number you don't normally get compliments of Code Enforcement because their job is to enforce right the number we've gotten um is a lot the most I've ever seen from a code enforcement crew so um officer Palmer and um Natalie from HR done a great job at getting people hired on he's done a great job um training them getting them on boarded extremely quickly and the first officer who's been there I want to say nine months now it it seems like it's every day there's a compliment on the quick turnaround time for example specifically um 1 hour at the site from point of Complaint to visiting so um just some context there and I saw it I mean I saw you know because you're tracking a initial visit and they were almost so many were same day you and then then one more step courtesy letter same day if not a couple days after which is fantastic and and you know hopefully it gets into compliance but that noov following and and following the process thank you for getting this out I think uh we got a lot of great minds up here and and organization all the way through the um our new team members always have great feedback too and and I I I think they're getting their shts and and that's kind of a a cool thing too it's kind of their for all they know is is Cap Canaveral and their first uh experience I guess in into it specifically code enforcement backgrounds maybe related but that was it Council I'm done if there are any comments add-ons my recommendation would be that continue to communicate to to the city manager and team and uh for improvements and anything you see today Mr Mayor yes council member Willis just wanted to command Brian on a good job with this spreadsheet um this plus your item that you brought to council uh Mr Mayor should be an organic document and it's going to grow and I think if we use this document as a trigger or areas of improvement or whatever but we can in the future as um technology becomes available to us that um this could be a road map for whatever we're using to make a job easier exactly exactly yes I mean I've already seen a couple of places where we could probably throw another column in there and calculate a few things but you know I think it's great for us as a council to be able to see everything that you are actually seeing and doing I mean it may not be applicable to us but it only reemphasizes the fact that you're on it so thank you very much yes sir council member Willis council member Jackson no May protim council member Davis say thank you yes thank you very much I I look forward to where this goes the last thing I'll say is one way I I've already used it uh and I think this is that level the council is when we get an inbound of any sort that you can say go check oh I do see it before we we really you know we'd reach out and and our city staff was always well just reach out give us a call let us know what was very uh amenable to to what we were trying to do but this allows us to go no they're they they've been working on it you know no one's done anything a complaint actually no that's not the case I can see here or it's a new issue that comes in goes we don't need a new issue it's already an existing issue and so um those are the ways just feedback I've already used it on a on a couple of them um and with that city manager any other comments no sir thank you okay good deal let's go ahead and move uh to the next agenda item number 11 update to the January 24th 2024 special council meeting uh postpone from October 15th we did not uh discuss anything one thing I want to clarify is that the document provided um the agenda cover actually the agenda summary so item number 11 the one that's thank you uh in in front of us and the basically the column the item and the status as we go down the line This has not changed I not saying have things I'm not asking have things happened I'm saying this is the same version going back our city manager we were looking at that was it August I guess when would be the last time the significant updates took place in September um as right there at the talk talked about September 17th on the 19th there was a meeting meeting uh further down there's me you can scroll there was a meeting on the 24th on and on the 30th um where we were really drilling down as far as we could drill down on when was the note Cowboy complained about rocks in the Swale in 524 um and to to get to that sense of closure on that um what we what we what we know is that the former enforcement officer stated that he put that record in there uh he also stated that he did not put it in there in bsna he stated that he put it in there um separate from bsna on his computer and that document was later uploaded into bsna so that's where that statement came from I know there's been a lot of speculation about how that happened but that that's the story that we have um because it was an uploaded document you can't trace it to keyboard Taps and mouse Clicks in bsna all you can show is it was uploaded a document was uploaded on this day that I think that's about as far as we could to take it we had um Mike Schaefer and Rit director in there uh helping us with that and the City attorney and that um I I don't know how further we can drill down on that Brian did I miss anything no sir we did we have changed our process on that so we can track who's putting information in when information is being put in um nobody else is allowed to touch another code officer's case inside of bsna anymore um if an information needs to be put in the case um the code officer is the one that puts it in there if I believe that something needs to be put in the case like a note or something I go to the code officer the code officer and puts it in the information in there nobody else can con nobody else does anything in inside a code enforcement officer case except for them um we also changed our process with the letter or the the word documents we don't do that anymore now we use a different portion of bsna where it actually tracks every per every input and who put it in there so we weren't using that before we were not using that before no okay so it wasn't that we didn't have the capability it was that we were not using the system that that way we we started using the system that way we moved to a different way of of doing it of logging it and tracking it thinking maybe this would be better obviously it wasn't we learned our lesson we went back uh to a previous um way of logging it so it does track everything that you put in there and then I implemented the um from now on nobody goes into another case I go into the cases I just don't put anything in there I have to go in to look at the cases to make sure things are going right smooth make sure everything the dates are good um but if I see a mistake I call the code officer into into my office uh we go over it and then I follow him to his office they input the information um making sure you know we agree on it I'm not going to make him put something in there that he doesn't agree on we agree on it and if he's good with it then he puts that information in nobody else touches their case but what I'm trying to determine and it's for probably future things and anytime we're implementing anything or anything like that is when we rolled out bsna before I know that that was during the pandemic so training was online and things like that um did were we not aware that we had the capability to track inputs at a user level or did we I don't understand why that wouldn't be happening we were aware of this we were using that uh portion the port that portion was not uh viewable by the public so we decided to go into a different way of doing things to allow it to be viewable by the public and what happened was when we went to that these documents were starting to get saved on people's computers and it defeated that user tracking yes and so then we said this is not best practice we need to go back to where we can track what's being put into the system and by who right okay thank you yes okay uh the so so that's on the the Jackson Avenue side um and the last update it really since September um is is is there anything well well let me just close on Jackson I think it's important that I was in a meeting with city manager um City attorney officer Palmer IT director Mike sh is anyone else was that believe that was it and I I when I as I I think say last meeting I did not walk away any clearer um and I think that there's some items on that that that still to this day do not make sense I think we've always had the audit capability within bsna but the decision to change documents I just want to clarify before Filmore the former code and enforcement officer stated that he put the record in there what record did he put in there that on 524 Cowboy complained about rocks in the Swale the entry he put it in a document not in bsna on his computer separate from bsna he he stated that he created that document bsna but who put it in the document that was provided he stated he stated that he he's the one that typed those words into a Word document saved on and saved it on his computer and then how did that get to the council though because we were that's the question that that was I don't know who loaded it somebody put that in as as the as the document itself there are several documents that we found that were uploaded it would have been one of those documents it was in one of those documents that was uploaded but that code officer the the sent point is the code officer said he created those words and typed them out on that document and saved it on his computer he stood by that to the very last day that he created that and saved it on his computer do we know when he said he created that um I don't think we asked the investigation during yes that's a big Point did he create it after or during I think at some point it reached the report that you provided yes and so somewhat I think you stated that you completed that report and so at a minimum it was I guess passed through but when I go through the a features on bsna there's there's logins during that period of time and there's a lot of activity I understand some of it but we're deleting records and I don't understand how if we have a backup like every organization can back up it's backing up why we can't back up to that period of time and find those records as is I want the council to hear that was a major confusion point the whole point backing up is to go to a date and I think today you know is one thing but can we go back and see a change prior and and I remember walking from that meeting thinking no and at that point I had nothing like what was the record on this date Mike can you speak to that and the capability to do that and that's my last question on Jackson and sort of an update for the council so make sure I understand the question right you're asking can we go back to a previous date and pull a previous status of what is actually in bsna at that date is that the question it uh in be just in Word documents on just on a on hard drive so so the the hard drive if the claim was the former code enforcement officer stated that he that he wrote that can't we go back on wherever that document was well if that document doesn't exist anymore because I think that was another indication was how can we go back and track the city manager report that was put to us and and and see who put that in and then work backwards so I have a multiple part answer to your question there uh the first part is within bsna when you delete a document out of bsna it is actually deleted from the database so it is not archived and I confirm this with the bsna tech support so there's no way for me to go back and retrieve and say this document in this format was in the database on this date so I cannot recreate a previous date of of the bsna status of that date that that capability does not exist so what about a Word document Independent by itself as what I understood the former could or is is that that document on a hard drive typed in the document okay so two parts to that answer the first part is in bsna you can see that a document was entered and it will show you that a document was deleted it will not show you the contents of that document that was deleted so I can see that that a a document but I cannot tell you what the content if that statement was in there on that date or not and that was consistent with what I found within bsna it would say a letter was deleted you would click on it and you even say view letter and and it it doesn't it does not archive as you said however if that word document was created on a hard drive and then it was uploaded into bsna which is I think what happened yes that word document began on a hard drive exclusive of bsna so I I looked into multiple hard drives I looked into archive records of personnel um personnel's user shares that we have and I was able to pull documents and the document that is in question or the statement of the document in question there I have found absolutely no evidence anywhere that that previous code enforcement officer ever wrote that statement whether in a document or in um or entered that statement in bsna okay um I I have seen it handwritten on a on a piece of paper that appears to be the same handwriting as as other notes on that paper from that code enforcement officer but as far as any digital signature I have absolutely nothing no evidence whatsoever that that person ever put that information in there so the only written record that you saw was the handwritten record and and I don't know and then now there is in the comment section of bsna someone else added a comment with that statement in bsna in the comments field and that one you can actually pull in out of the audit and you can see that statement um and and that will show you who who made the statement um the date it was entered and it was entered I believe it was like five or six weeks after the date it was after 524 um the other thing we looked at was to see if the code enforcement officer was at that location we used the uh Sams vehicle detection which routes vehicles um but that datea only goes back 6 months so I was not able to pull that data but there were two statements additionally put in bsna one from um the lead code enforcement and one from that code enforcement officer that's appear to coincide that said that the code enforcement officer was there on I believe the day before for the 23rd of May um as closing out an inspection thank you so it appears to me that that inspection was was in fact closed out on the 23rd and the statement was documented on the 24th which would be consistent with I would think how you do business documenting something within 24 hours thank you yes sir that's all I have for now yes sir yeah so I'm going to continue to try and follow back up with the city um if that's okay with the city manager and and uh the parties who who need to be involved and work through some of those we had one meeting uh I think one more is needed and I think we've learned some things since then um that written record I would like to get a copy of that that was provided I think that if that's ex something that if that's the only written record and the second written record is what was provided to us where's the gap happen between those two did someone see the written type it whose fingers put those words in we don't have an answer to that that was a concern is we don't know and that's a track changes feature but the author of the document and in the edits of the document through tracking changes um where that's all I have for now if there's not any comments on on that um it it just sort of gets to a point to where you know you're not getting there there's there was some changes in procedures as officer Palmer says we had static documents unstatic but it it just didn't make sense to me and so um I want to give the public an answer that that I can say uh uh hey I I've looked at this as hard as I can and I can't do that today but I hope we can get there um and give an answer that makes sense if Mr Robinson stated that could are we allowed to meet with former employees here we have able to invite him in and to get him to provide that statement in in person I I would defer to the City attorney on that there is there is a separation agreement signed but I I don't know if that prevents that okay yeah I I don't want to reach out or unless okay so he's okay we'll need a motion to extend we're at 10:00 or uh I'll make a motion we extend to 10:15 I'll second the motion got a motion by mayor B Tim Callum got a second by myself mayor Morrison it's okay any further discussion city clerk council member Davis against council member Jackson for count uh mayor Pro Tim Kellum for mayor Morrison for council member Willis for okay um as far as Filmore Avenue goes there's no comments that we can State on this at this time or should State no updates that we can provide I think some emails were exchanged I'll defer to the City attorney yeah I mean there as you know we at this point we can comment that as you know a notice no 558 notice was sent to all of the U um developing developers team we did receive um couple of responses some of the parties uh declined to respond um we never heard back um so I am working with the with the manager regarding um you know him and his staff finalizing some information I am uh discussing the matter with an attorney representing one of the parties I'm be happy to talk to council members at this time individually and and give you a more thorough update than that um but we're trying to get this in um a posture where the city council can um make a decision and have I mean with the choices that are available um so um more to follow soon on on on those choices but in the inter term I'd be happy to talk to the council members individually and give you more detailed update is the city currently under any type of formal lawsuit for this no sir okay nothing's been filed or nothing no okay um we're approaching with caution if I understand and I will continue I did have a chance to meet with the city manager and City Attorney at least for an update and I would encourage uh those of you are interested to take advantage of that opportunity as well I think it will be helpful um with that we will move on to item number uh discussion yep that's unfinished business um item number 12 yes sir mayor this is an item that I I put in there um because of um after Hurricane Milton hit and left certain areas with standing water notably Cape canaval Mobile Estates um and I know Mary you were trying to provide relief there and working with me and uh there were some questions asked and some answers given But ultimately the the city did not uh Um send a pump over there to pump anything out and he was able to pump it out himself and we met um with that manager the next day and he came up with a plan for the future to include how he wants to be prepared for pumping out in the future but uh the reason I I set this item up was because I noted that our city adopted budget had some hund I'm forget how many dollars we put in 140 $140,000 for a storm water pump and it was put in and I read the CIP very closely and and it said for for flooding stresses encountered in by the in the city like in the presidential streets or in other areas where this pump can come to the rescue and and I think it's great that we're getting that and and because the previous pump that we we were talking about is the D pump for for sewage spills it's not really appropriate for that kind of a thing but this this pump can be used to pump down flooded areas so the question in my mind was okay we're in we're in an emergency situation in the future we like we had we were in emergency situation Declaration of emergency order and obviously if we have a flooding situation in the presidential streets yeah I mean just go dispatch that pump and do what you can or or anywhere North Atlantic or you know Harbor Heights or it makes sense to dispatch that pump but when it comes specifically to the concept of dispatching it to help private property I know we all want to help and certainly if there's if there's risk to life or limb in an emergency that a a a person's life is in Peril or a person's property is in Peril of being flooded if we don't do this that that that way is obviously higher higher on that scale and then there's lesser ones where it's an inconvenience because our street is is flooded um there's different levels of emergency so that's one part of it the other part of it is it's private property um used on private prop public funds used on private property is that appropriate in this emergency type of situation and because we we were faced with that and we were struggling with that at last month's meeting I I I felt it's a shame if we don't learn from this about how we want to position ourselves in the future from a policy perspective of do we do we say yes uh on the private property um or are there levels at which we have to pass thresholds before we say yes or do we say no on private property and just make it an educational piece and and I don't know that we have to answer all this tonight mayor but I I wanted to get the the questions out there so that we learn from this and so that I learn from this and my staff learns from this um what we can expect in the future and that that's really the nuts and bolts of it and we can discuss it or we can we can come back to it later if we want to and think about it but I just wanted to throw it out there I want to learn from this thank you for putting this on the pump the temporary pump we had at Center Street was that that was a storm water pump was no that's the D pump correct Tim yes yeah but I thought it was to help with the negative flow at the Center Street to help move the water out that's what June would you mind it coming to the we need to so we initially purchased that pole we voted as a council to install a temporary pump to move storm water and we're talking about an a different D order required for Waste Water June can explain we have two pumps okay and we used one of pumps for storm water because that's the only pump we have to use for that now we put in a budget for a storm water pump but the pump that we had that we dispatched was purchased for purposes of waste water not storm water Li stations yes that's a backup for Lift stations is required by our D operating permit um at least one we have two but you want to have that whether it's required or not if you got hair is or Harbor going down you don't want the streets flood you want to be able to pump them out mhm so we don't have generators on all over those stations so what was the temp so we own a Wastewater pump today only used for Wastewater well that's what I'd like to use it for because you got to sanitize it I mean do you really want to be putting storm water into the river that's been using with a waste water pump I mean I don't and if it's an emergency situation it's just kind of hard to clean those pumps that fast can we use an emergency situations yes no I understand I think it makes sense you know having but we have a second pump today strictly for storm water we have no storm water pumps the two pump no portable pumps for storm water the two pumps are Wastewater mhm we're just using the one for storm water we're not using anything for storm water we we did position it to be used at one point yeah we yeah yeah the temporary pump on on Center Street Center Street that operated to help with flooding yeah and that didn't um I don't know how much that helped I mean we didn't have the it just recirculated what's the ball that closes off the title valve we didn't have a title valve at that time so it was limited Effectiveness but that pump that we bought is it where that pump's installed that's that's on Center Street that temper temporary pump that's not temporary pump okay is so a permanent pump right which I remember the permanent but I thought the the permanent came in in the temporary went back to Wastewater I believe what happened was it was cleaned before using I know what you're saying it was cleaned before using it at the end of Center Street and that's all it was used for at the time yes so when it went back into commission with Wastewater of course you don't have to clean it going from storm water waste water was just used with waste water when needed so before it was commissioned down at the end of Center Street to help with the flooding issue it was cleaned up first then positioned at the does that make sense it does we have two pumps though today that are mobile pumps and we have a third permanent pump we have a one coming as well for Wastewater cuz these pumps were from the '90s I send them out every year to get them completely overhauled but I we don't know how how long they'll last one's 96 and I think the other one's 2001 they're old pumps okay we have a new one coming it should be here I would say in a couple weeks and that's for Wastewater yes but we also have in the budget to purchase one for storm water yes five pumps if my Math's correct yeah one of them's per minute yeah one permane two we have plus one sewer coming and one storm coming okay but today we've had a pump that we've used okay the first storm water I thought we purchased that pump mayor perm correct me if I'm wrong that was a few years back I felt like so I guess we bought a pump that was dated back an older pump or did we just use an existing pump we had the pump that we used to yes was silent night it's a Thompson pump 6 in pump okay it's existing we've had it for years maybe my brain is not right so for some reason I thought we bought a a new pump no we had a pump last year's budget and it was not bought you are correct was a budgeted item for a pump for a storm water pump last year but it was never bought so I think it rolled over to this okay those are the things that takes a little bit of time to work through thank you very much that's all I had for now um in this policy on how to use those pumps no matter where they are or what they're on I think is a good discussion that we should continue yeah I would like that mayor if we could just kind of stop here on that one and bring it back next month and we'll have had some time to think about it yep Council we move on from 12 to 1 oh sorry 12 to 14 thank you uh I think this is the final discussion on a charter review 2009 I think we had a charter Review Committee um you know whether it's that level or not I think the county some cities every 10 years every five years it's been it's been a while Charter's not seven pages I think if you print it 12 font it'll be longer but I just wanted to start that conversation is that going through the charter could we at an appropriate meeting in the future learn about maybe an expedited process to go through the charter even if we broke it into a couple of meetings and sections as at least an affirmation and and a review together and if there are items that were like hey that's not clear this we want to change we love this l'sen um that process would be I guess one way Council would the charter tells us what to do on how to we all know we could put it I guess on the ballot right we would approve it and then it would go out to vote and the voters would ultimately decide if there was a charter change we didn't put put on uh there's a process for them to to do that as well my Hope was that we could find um a time and the idea was um and I think a big reason we we've always got more than than the time we have to handle and so this is something that well we're barely getting through our meetings today without extending uh if at all and so one of the things and we're talking about adding a meeting and then the CRA and we all probably got oh we can do that that two or that one extra um was that we've talked about 5:00 p.m workshops and I've thought about this for six at least five years is that the old way is there was a 5:00 pm standing Workshop prior to the meetings and throughout the week the month as we bring stuff into the city manager and we're you know fighting to figure out agenda spots and what goes where and when is the best time and not seeing what the city staff and duplicate efforts I think we've all been there is that there there is an opportunity for all of us to come together and say you talking to a citizen let's let's bring that up at the workshop right it's just a brain NK we don't have to do it every meeting but I wanted to talk about the idea of coming together at 5: and one of the things that we could at minimum consider is even if it's for the first few just going through the charter together and understanding if we if we don't want to do that so I'm trying to create the time the space to do this um as a as kind of a charter Workshop to begin we might get to one workshop and say we're done with this let's move on but I am also saying uh from meeting to meeting we might want to consider as is the benefits of having that 5:00 pm Workshop to offload to sort out to help prioritize things we've talked about second meetings I think the better fix would be to come in and have a place uh even presentations that we do sometimes you know like like the the example that we had today a workshop we could point that or I missed the agenda cut off well at least come to the workshop and and Pitch so I think that's all I have for now um it wasn't anything specifically in the city Charter is more of it's been I was going back to the history looking at that process the council created a committee and I would encourage us to come together and consider do we want to do that and we don't have time tonight but at least on the next agenda if not five 5 p.m prior to the next meeting just to hold a workshop review um dedicated to that uh or Charter review at a workshop if we don't want a workshop we can put it on the agenda but that's it that's all I have I'm definitely interested in it there's questions I have on it so I think so too we just adopted well this next meeting we had already adopted last no November so that's on December our next council meeting is it 17th is the regular meeting we just reserved I guess we're close to a December 3rd so yeah as an example December 17th do we have enough room on the agenda or do we could we come together at 5:00 p.m. and say we're going to run through the the charter council's prerogative yeah I don't know what the like we don't know what all is going to be on that agenda at this point and we might do it on the third we no we plan to do it on the third yeah okay so I would I think if we can do a 5:00 pm Workshop to discuss the charter so you're aware I'm back working and I work till 5:00 now okay that's really important um so six is even I mean is six an issue for you are you able to make the six I me I guess these things happen Okay um Standalone workshop at 6 pm on another day is another option I I think it's really important that we try to come together on this and yeah I I third yeah okay so we'll find a date and I just want to remind the council that any council member can request a special or Workshop meeting at any time during the month we don't have to do it tonight yes it's uh okay and it we wrote some procedures for this I think some new ones all together tonight so I mean if to the extent that you can facil fac itates baates I mean that and from our view save the clerk a lot of headache but and the council the clerk has I believe the toughest job and from us it's very limited view you know and and we now actually have a process with the form but agreed with our City attorney uh I can meet at 5:00 p.m. um we have a hard stop at 10 in if we're starting at 6 we got 4 hours across 12 meetings is 48 hours in a Year's worth of business it's a week's worth of work so we we don't we're not giving ourselves enough time to get the ambitious things we need and solve the issues we need done I don't I don't think we can meet later going to have to either find another date the December 3rd what sounds like it was a date that we're going to hold a CRA meeting by itself and a speci and a special meeting um perhaps that meeting we could do it at the end of that meeting could make it a another item on that meeting if if we get to it I would say after that um so we we can we can t the deadline to submit for that agenda oh wa tomorrow not different different oh yeah my wife's birthday my birthday all December um maybe in addition to the holiday January yeah um well a workshop if we can do it uh I'll just follow the process uh I I think that's as far as we can go um but that December 3rd does work for me if we're already going to be meeting I will probably not I think it's more of a council discussion okay okay well that that that was it um so I think we are at the end there's nothing else else informational item any reports we're past the extended time looking up now no reports I have a lot to report but it can wait another Workshop I mean at 5:00 pm right a lot of folks they do their reports at the beginning I think the county does that they do them right up front and and that there's just little tweaks I think we can make that that will'll give ourselves enough time because if it's 4 hours tonight we have to deduct two 15 minute breaks right off the top my delays I I'll I'll own them all uh obviously getting sworn in as a procedural two presentations so when we actually get to the business we're actually not spending as much time as we think and so I just want to take it easy on ourselves um that's it I have one report and just thank you all of it's it's an honor and I hope that the next three years we can see some um some of the things we all we hope to see happen within the city I think we're seeing some of those things happen today and I look forward to another 36 months with you and I with the reality is is with this Council so we really have one year left with this this specific group so I look forward to talking with you uh over the next year in the city staff thank you all thank you Happy Thanksgiving anything else yeah all right move to adjourn