Good evening everyone. It is 6:01 p.m. April 15, 2025. We are at the Cape Canaveral City Council regular meeting in the City Hall Council Chambers located at 100 Pulk Avenue in Cape Canaveral, Florida. Call this meeting to
order. Council member Davis, would you please lead us in the pledge? to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. Thank you. City clerk, please call the role. Council member Davis, here. Council member Jackson here, Mayor Prom Callum here, Mayor Morrison here, and council
member Willis here. Thank you all for being here and all who are joining us here today in public and online. This time council, we're on the item number four to approve the agenda as written or with
amendments. I do have one thing Uh just like to I guess pull take no action. Um and and we could just take no action when we get to it. But on the consent agenda, item
7 A1 for the January 28th, 2025 meetings uh special meeting minutes and the uh verbatim excerpt for the January 28, 2025 special meeting. I'd like to just
clarify a few things with before we do anything with this uh with the city attorney and if the council can uh postpone it or or take no action. I don't know if the city attorney recommends if in the event I don't want to move forward with that right now um
and the council's willing. Mayor, one suggestion would be to um approve the agenda in removing um the January 28th, 2025 special meeting draft minutes and the verbatim excerpt.
Okay. And that would be A1 and B. Yes, sir. Okay. That was all I had as far as the structure of the agenda. So we would essentially when we get to the consent I mean we can approve really all of that together and for
clarity could approve A two and three um if the council chooses to to withhold. So, are there any other changes, reordering, additions to the agenda, council?
Are we approving the agenda as written without without those two items? With deletions. So, we need a motion for that. Yes. Yes. Make a motion to approve the agenda as written with deletions.
I'll second. Got a motion by council member Willis, second by mayor per Tim Kellum. Any further discussion, city attorney. All good there. City clerk, council member Davis, four. Council
member Jackson, four. Mayor Potm Callum, four, Mayor Morrison, four, and council member Willis, four. Okay, we are now uh to the presentations portion of the meeting. We have three today. Very exciting. Um, and
due to a limited mobility, u I'm going to go down and usually I go back and forth for all three, but we'll do well, we'll do them in the order that they're there. I think we have some representatives for each of them. The first presentation is the Arbor Day
proclamation. Then we'll do the National Pickle Ball Month proclamation and then water conservation month proclamation. So, I will go ahead and bring these forward and if those representatives are here as we get
to them, more than welcome to come up, say a few words, and uh certainly take a photo together if you choose. So, just give me a moment. I'm going to head down to the podium. Thank you. I I actually got it. You did? I do.
Can you get to this? I know. I fell off a ladder into a bathtub and didn't break anything. So, okay. Oops. First proclamation is an official proclamation of the city of Cape Canaveral.
Whereas in 1872, J. Sterling Morton proposed to the Nebraska Board of Agriculture that a special day be set aside for the planting of trees. And whereas this holiday called Arbor Day was first
observed with the planting of more than a million trees in Nebraska and is now observed throughout the nation and the world. And whereas trees can reduce the erosion of top soil, mitigate storm water flooding, cut heating and cooling
costs, moderate the temperature, clean the air, produce lifegiving oxygen, sequester carbon dioxide, and provide a habitat for wildlife. And whereas trees are a renewable resource, giving us
paper, wood for our home, and fuel for our fire. And whereas trees in our city increase property values, enhance the economic vitality of business areas, beautify our community, and are a source
of joy and spiritual renewal. And whereas the city of Cape Canaveral is celebrating its 36th year as a recognized tree city. Now therefore, I, Wes Morrison, mayor of the city of Cape Canaveral, Bvard County, Florida, do
hereby proclaim April 25th, 2025 as Arbor Day in the city of Cape Canaveral, and urge all citizens to celebrate Arbor Day. Support efforts to protect our trees and woodlands, and
plant trees to gladden the heart and promote the well-being of this and future generations. signed and sealed this 15th day of April, 2025. Do we have a representative here? Yes. Thank you. If you'd like to say a few
words. Sure. Uh good good evening. I'm Dana Susman. I'm a forester with the Florida Forest Service and I'm really glad to be here to accept the Arbor Day proclamation. Although you've declared one day officially Arbor Day as a forester, for me every day is Arbor Day
because trees are such an important part of our communities. You've shown your commitment to trees by being recognized for 36 years as a Tree City USA. I'm sure you love trees before the first Tree City USA award and will continue to. Uh so again, you know, it's really
nice to be here for uh the chance to say thank you and I'm sure the residents of the city of Cape Canaveral appreciate all you do to um take care of the trees you already have and plant new trees. And just finally, Arbor Day is one of those days
where we're doing things that we may not reap the benefits from in the near future, but the the next generation certainly will. Uh so again, thank you and congratulations on the Tree City USA tenure. If you'd like to take a pres.
Oh, okay. We can take a photograph together. Sure. Can we do it right here? Yeah. Okay, we do love our trees in Cape Canaveral. So, thank you and thank the city staff and and all who's been a part of making that
happen. This next proclamation is an official proclamation of the city of Cape Canaveral, Florida. Whereas pickle ball is a rapidly growing sport that promotes physical activity, social engagement, and a sense of community for people of all ages and skill levels. And
whereas the city of Cape Canaveral recognizes the importance of recreational activities and enhancing the quality of life for its residents and visitors. And whereas the growth and success of Cape Canaveral's pickle ball
program would not be possible without the dedication and hard work of enthusiastic volunteers, staff and players who have contributed their time, effort, and expertise to organizing events, creating leagues, and
introducing new players to the sport. And whereas these volunteers have played a pivotal role in fostering a welcoming and inclusive environment that encourages sportsmanship, camaraderie, and active living. And whereas while
Cape Canaveral has the luxury of enjoying pickle ball year round, April marks the beginning of peak pickle ball season in most communities nationwide, making it a fitting time to celebrate the sport's positive impact on the Cape
Canaveral community. Now therefore, I, Wes Morrison, mayor of the city of Cape Canaveral, Bvard County, Florida, do hereby proclaim the month of April as National Pickle Ball Month. And we express our deepest appreciation to the
dedicated volunteers whose efforts have strengthened and expanded the pickle ball community in Cape Canaveral, making it a thriving and enjoyable activity for all. Signed and sealed this 15th day of April,
2025. We love our pickle ball. Jamie, I think I saw somebody here to receive her. Love, we can come here and take a little photograph and then if you'd like to say a few words. Thank you.
I'm not competitive right now. At least we know. At least we know we didn't have three, two, one. [Applause] Absolutely. I just want to say thank you as well for
your efforts. I think we've been active about six years now and we're growing. It's a beautiful community. It's It is inclusive like you said. It's all ages. There's a lot of younger members coming out. The staff has always been supportive and we appreciate that. There
are several club members and that just means you volunteer, you help, and there's a there's like a lot of those, 80 to 100, but there's probably 20 to 30 that volunteer all the time for every event. um tournaments, leagues, and we
really appreciate them as well as you all for letting us have that opportunity. Thank you. [Applause] Sorry. Last and certainly not least proclamation is an official proclamation
to the city of Cape Canaveral, Florida. Whereas water is a basic and essential need of everything, every living creature and whereas the state of Florida water management districts and the city of Cape Canaveral are working
together to increase awareness about the importance of water conservation. And whereas the city of Cape Canaveral and the state of Florida has designated April, typically a dry month, when water demands are most acute, Florida's water conservation month, to educate citizens
about how they can help save Florida's precious water resources. And whereas the city of Cape Canaveral has always encouraged and supported water conservation through various educational programs, outreach, and special events. And whereas every business, industry,
school, and resident can make a difference when it comes to conserving water. And whereas every business, industry, school, and resident can help by saving water and thus promote a healthy economy and community. And
whereas efficient irrigation design, programming, and maintenance can conserve water, the city of Cape Canaveral will encourage citizens and businesses to evaluate their irrigation systems for potential efficiency enhancements.
Now therefore, be it resolved that by virtue of the authority vested in me as mayor of the city of Cape Canaveral, do hereby proclaim the month of April as water conservation month, the city of Cape Canaveral, Florida is calling upon
each resident and business to help protect our precious resource by practicing water saving measures and becoming more aware of the need to save water. For this the 27th year of water
conservation month, there will be a special focus on irrigation system evaluations signed and sealed this 15th day of April, 2025. Take a we have a special guest, the rain.
Oh, I love it. Jack and I had routine worked out. [Applause] We can take that with you if you Okay, Mr. Mayor and uh city council, thank you for once again recognizing uh
the importance of water conservation month. This is the 27th year that April has been designated water conservation month in Florida. Uh and it's an important way, easy way, but an important way uh to put this back on everybody's radar uh to help conserve this this vital resource. As the mayor
mentioned, as the proclamation mentioned, there is a focus this year on irrigation systems. Every year there's a theme uh to kind of get some more specificity to it and give people sort of a mission uh when they get home. So, it only takes a few minutes. Make sure your irrigation system is functioning the way it should. There aren't any
leaks. Uh and if there are, try to get them fixed. Um but that's it. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. And just as a real quick shameless plug, the city does have a rain barrel program for residents. Uh we get them free from
a local aloe vera company. So they're food grade barrels ready to go. 55 g. Uh that's an example of one right behind me that uh our on staff artist painted recently. It's really beautiful. So if you want to take advantage of that, you can as a resident. And you can also get
a $50 rebate from Cocoa Water if you prove your installation through the city of Cape Canaveral. So just want to throw that out there. [Applause] Wonderful. Thank you all again. Love the
presentations and proclamations every month, but this month was special. Um, excellent. So, now we are on to the public participation portion of the meeting. If you do intend to speak, we have some public comment cards at the front. We do ask that you please fill
those out. I do have a few up here and if anyone's listening online uh would like to speak uh please uh digitally raise your hand and we'll make sure that you're you're recognized after the folks here have an opportunity to. And with that the first card I have here is Mr.
John Benton. Mr. Benton. Okay. We know why I'm here for a code reduction hearing. And I told you 10 years ago that I wasn't going to stop until I came in here. You didn't allow me to defend myself in that meeting.
Kevin man, your deacon up at the Presbyterian church, came in and lied to everybody and everybody's lost their jobs counting morally because of that. And Dicki, he shouldn't have been fired. He took the blame for a lot of stuff. If he if it wasn't for Dicki, I
wouldn't have known that Kevin Man's son was a security guard up there when his son was living in the warehouses that you accused me of living in. Why don't you ask the lawyer? I'm talking to the board. Why don't I Why
don't you board members ask the lawyer why his employee, the lawyer, would not let me defend myself? That's like the fourth amendment. Everybody gets a chance to defend themselves. Kevin gets up and sinks me. If he would have let me defend myself, I could have told you,
take the fire truck up there that night, pull it into the A and B units and turn the sirens on and those guys would be opening the door because there was a half a dozen of them in those units that night. He lied to you. Everybody, he lied to the police. And because Officer Nettles didn't tell you I had a police officer
in my unit, you took it out on him and sent him out to the jail to work. That's a demotion. Going from a nice cushy job in the city to the jail, it's he's not supposed to tell you that part of that. If he would have told
anybody, he would have told the co he would have told Kevin Man. Kevin man would have told those homeless people and my renter, the cop from Cocoa Beach, he would have never had peace because he ended up moving out of the warehouses because there was nothing up but problems up there. They all want to come over there
and drink beer with them. He has his back to the door. They hit him on the head and kill him. Everybody's going to blame me. Hey, John, you should have kept your mouth shut. Everything was fine. Kev, I sold Kevin man two warehouses of mine and that's the way he's going to come in there and try to
get my other two. That's what he wants. He wants 75% of those warehouses and he can force a sale. Everybody have to sell on if somebody has to buy the whole complex at one time. He has 67% out there. You got to no more
anonymous complaints. And that you know why? Because Kevin man went over to Merit Island to a guy named Jim Harper, a retired army guy. called the code enforcement on them because when I told Jim Harper about it, I said, "Man, Kevin went in there and got me in trouble." Said, "I lived in the warehouse, kept
calling code enforcement." He looked at me, he goes, "That just happened to me." He's been living in that house for over 20 years. He couldn't he couldn't figure out who who his neighbors would do that. And the code enforcement officer told him that whoever did it knows code enforcement because it was on the side
of his house and and was told to code enforcement, "Oh, you can see it from the sidewalk. You can't convince him that it wasn't Kevin because Kevin was trying to buy his units for 5,000. [Music] Thank you. And the last time I was here, some woman out here when that red light
came on said, "Dad light's on. You need to get your people under control." Thank you. Okay, the next one is Mary Scabona. Hello, I'm Mary
Scabona. I live in Winter Haven, Florida. I'm here today because on November 14th of last year, I was attacked, mauled, and nearly killed by a dog on a Cape Canaveral
beach. This was on the news, so I'm certain it's not news to any of you. You know that it happened. I've tried to um reach out to the mayor and uh I've kind of been unsuccessful in in getting a meeting with you. Um I I know that it
was in the news so you all are aware of it. Uh I just want your help. Please, let's not let this happen to other people. I think there's some simple fixes. We can raise fines for dogs off
leashes. We can raise fines for um dogs that are on the beach and they're not supposed to be. This was just kind of brushed under the carpet and it's horrible. I have been going to therapy two, three times a week. Uh I can walk,
thank God. I can move my arms around. For a while, I couldn't even lift my arm over my head. My psych psyche is uh horrible. I'm just absolutely scared to death of dogs, even little dogs. Um I was not afraid of dogs before. Uh it's
just a absolute horrible thing. And I think you guys can do something. You can make new laws. You can raise the fines so that people don't do this. They don't bring their unleashed dogs out in public and allow them to attack people and hurt them. If you guys have seen half the
things that I've seen on Facebook dog bites.org or all these different things. There's kids with their faces ripped off and and people with their own dogs biting their nose off, biting an arm off, a leg off. And I get nothing. The
person that owned the dog had nothing. They have no insurance. They had no leash on the dog. The dog didn't belong on that beach. And nobody has even reached out to me to say, "Hey, are you okay from that?" That was pretty horrific. If any of you saw the pictures
that were on the TV, it was pretty horrific. My genitals were attacked. My right thigh was attacked. It was shredded. And my arm was attacked. And a big hunk of my arm was ripped open. It's horrible. It's really horrible. You guys
need to step up and change laws. In Ohio, there's a mayor there that's working on this to try to change laws and make it mandatory that if a dog does that one time, it's done. We this person that owns the dog is a felon. He went to
jail in February. He was in jail for a month and a half, almost two months, and the dog was left with someone else. Well, that woman, which was his girlfriend, I guess, she had enough sense to have the dog put down because she couldn't keep up her end of the bargain. It was a dog that was a
dangerous dog. It took it took so long to get that dog's name on the dangerous dog list. Uh it took over three months. Um, but it was deemed dangerous. I think it was in December. Thank you all. I appreciate you
listening. Mary, if you don't mind, I'd like to first of all, you did reach out. Um, I want to thank you for coming forward today and I know that takes a lot of courage and very sorry. I can confidently say on behalf on the entire council, very sorry for what you went
through. Um, I don't know when the best time is, but shortly after that meeting, Council Member Willis and really the whole council took up an issue and had our deputies in animal control. But I wanted to
um circle back with you and with the whole council and see if we can't listen to some of the ideas. Very valuable to have your input experiencing that directly. Um, I I was able to respond to you, but you're right. I have not been
able to solidify a meeting. And I think every third Tuesday of every month, we have a meeting. We have one this. And so, if it'd be okay with you between now and the next meeting, if we can get together potentially, if the council chooses, we can circle back on some of
the actions we looked at and took to address this issue. So, I really appreciate talking. Thank you. Thank you. The next card I have here and the last one. Now, this is there's an agenda item
uh tagged to it, which is item number eight. Um, this Lillian Meyers, if you'd like to come forward now, you can. Uh, if you wanted to wait, that's the last card I have, too.
Wait then. Okay, I'll put that one to the side. If there was anyone else who intended to speak, uh that's all the cards. Please come forward now. Raise your hand, let me know. And anyone who online, uh seeing none, I will go ahead and
close public participation until we get to item number eight. And to clarify, uh, item 8 has 8B as in boy. Thank
you. 8B. All right. We are now to the consent agenda. Uh unless council chooses to pull, we can uh take action on the remaining items that were not deleted uh
until further action, which was A 2 and three. Make a motion to approve the consent agenda A2 and three. Second. Got a motion by Council Member Willis, second by Council Member
Davis. Any further discussion? Seeing none, city clerk. Council member Davis, four. Council member Jackson, four. Mayor Prom Callum, four. Mayor Morrison, four. And council member Willis, four. Consent agenda
items 7 A 2 and 3 pass unanimously. Which brings us to item number eight. Our first item for action 8A, City Hall office buildout project.
uh for with JCKC Construction LLC. This is a motion to consider the approval of city hall office buildout project invitation to bid number 202405 to the
most responsive and responsible bidder in the amount of $53,731 to JCKC Construction LLC and authorize interim city manager to execute the same. Mr. Interim City Manager
John, is there anything you'd like to give us an overview here? Anything we need to address? Uh yeah, Mayor, the uh the uh this buildout is is definitely necessary because we are taking on a few more employees and this is going to
allow them to have actually have a work area. It'll have we'll have three extra um work uh spaces and one big room where this is going to go on the second floor of city hall.
There's also another um the enclave there when you get off the elevator uh next to where my office, my finance office is, there's an area there too that we'll be we'll be working on. But this bigger room with the three offices
is is much needed and we're starting to bring on new employees as we speak. if you need additional information, any additional questions. Uh Tim's here, my capital projects director and he could talk to you more
about the actual buildout. Thank you for that. I mean, we have the agenda summary here, which is very helpful. Uh the construction documents were included. Um, I would just ask as city attorney, is there
anything that you think the council should be aware of as far as the contract? Um, pretty standard as normal from a legal. It's the um it's the most recent uh form construction contract that um we use. It just needs
to uh be filled out for this specific contract. Thank you, council. I have a question. Yes, Council Member Willis. Tim can go ahead and get up. Several years ago, we had budgeted
90,000 for the buildout. What is the difference now? How much? $90,000 was budgeted for the buildout two years ago. What is the difference now? I have no clue. Okay. Um, if I may, if I
may cut in there, uh, Tim, does this particular this 53k, does that include the enclave, uh, that's between um, the city clerk's office and my finance office? Does that include that also? Yes, that's that's we did
this kind of in a phase one, phase two pro uh, kind of projectwise. And uh I told all bidtors to to give me phase one and phase two just in case it ended up being astronomical or something. Um I like to give myself
options to give to you guys to approve and not approve. Um but when it came back it was decent and I was like that's not bad at all. Um but that's including the enclave and the oversized room. I'm not sure, you know, I I somehow remember
the 90,000 but I don't think I was part of the project at that point. I believe that's where an estimate came in at the time and uh it came in at 90K, but surely it's uh definitely very refreshing to know that it'll only be
53K. So, I'm extremely happy about that. Of course, I just wanted to be sure that we weren't leaving anything out. No. Okay. Thank you. I have a question. Yes, Mayor Perim Kellum. In this year's budget, the 2425, it was budgeted for
50,000. So, it's 3,700 over. Correct. I believe that we had extra funds for furniture and stuff like that that we can put towards this. We Yeah. 15,000 $15,000 which we will not have to spend. So, um uh the the additional 30 some
hundred will come on um general fund which again another win-win for us. So, that'll keep an extra 12K in the general fund too. And my other question was um how many more employees? I mean once
we do this is there any going to be any more room for more employees? My my point is that you know in in 2022 we had 9,800 people in the city. In 2023 we had
10,000. So, we've grown by 47 people in 10 years. And I'm just wondering, how many more employees do we need with the growth that we have in our city? Um, and where are we going to go
after after this? Hopefully, you know, when we do these new offices, that will be the end of putting more money into the city hall. I'm hoping. I just that's a that's a very that's a very good question and and I have a very good
answer for you. Okay, good. Uh actually three there's like three more positions. We we def the city desperately needs a records management um uh officer which um we'll be bringing uh that person on
uh soon. Um, and then in addition, uh, something the city hasn't had is a it's going to be like a contracts manager. Um, and there's one other position. Uh, actually, they're the only
two positions right now that we're bringing on. Uh, and so they would occupy that room, but that leaves us an extra office. But these are these are positions that the city was doing without. and to operate more efficiently
and whatever. I think it it's very important. So, uh but that would be it. I wouldn't foresee in the next two to three years um or maybe even be beyond that we would need more employees than that and um I think our plate would be
full. Uh and also city hall would be full. So, um I I think we finally we we just never got to get to that point um based on all the different things that were happening, but now we have a
there's a window an an opening here for us to really get the staff that we need to support these things for the future. So, these were things were actually missing that were being absorbed and now could be done and accounted for much more efficiently. Thank you.
Thank you, Tim. Council member Jackson. Um, the one thing I noticed, Tim, is the these bids are all over the place. I mean, we've got one at 74, one at 53, and one at 40,000. Um, and I noticed
that Doug Wilson is in Merit Island, the other two are over in uh the Orlando area. Uh, I mean, how can they be that far off? And what what would keep you from going with the lowest vendor? All right. I'm
glad you as Tim is handing this uhformational packet out. I will tell you that staff has done extensive work and kept kept uh extensive records
detailing not only for for staff and for council for the taxpayer on when this uh particular city hall was built the things that we had to go back to um and and get fixed through that that
contractor. Everything here has been provided to council um and they could see all the work that staff did to um meet the shortcomings and um and also
the uh financial impact uh with that particular contractor. Well, with that being said, uh although the cost that we selected may be a little bit more, in the end, we believe it's a much better
um better path because we're not willing to take a chance on a contract that might have cost us thousands of dollars in the past. Um we have to go with what we believe is going to be better workmanship and and in the end it'll
save the taxpayers money. uh without having to go back and for products that were um not fitted right uh or or or just uh just malfunctioned, whatever. But um this uh this handout that I had
staff do will back up that uh uh and that's that's one of the prim and you have you have to do that and and I think uh the citizens know too that you know sometimes uh if you go with the lower bidder you get what you pay for. So you
got to be very careful with that. And uh the last thing is like yes Tim these pri these prices are all over the place you know and it is sad and this is the world we live in that if we got six quotes
they'd be way all over the place and and and at times you you see that people you maybe they're taking a little bit of um advantage of inflation or whatever but uh sometimes contractors to charge just
kind of what they were to see what see what they can get and this is a smaller job. So sometimes on smaller jobs that's what happens that you know they'll try to get as much as they could. Well, we got a reasonable price here on this second quote that we took. So um staff
and I feel confident that we'll get a good job done here and uh we'll be worth our money. So thank you. I appreciate that. Um and that that helps me understand the decision-m process in that such it is a wide disparity on all
three vendors. Yeah, this hasn't happened the first time. There's been plenty of times and I I actually go through very carefully on all the bid packages and I will call uh people that they've done jobs on, ask them questions, see if they've had any
problems. Another thing I look for is change orders because if they have a lot of change orders, there's evidently something wrong with the way they're doing the work. Um, I take that into consideration. There's a whole grading thing that I go through and make sure that, you know, um, we're going to get
the best of the best. I have one other question just as someone that hasn't worked on one of these construction projects yet with you or been up here when you've been doing that. Um, so how does Okay. When they contract
with us to do this project, are they allowed to subcontract out the work? They are. Any contractor that we have can subcontract. Normally within the bid package, they'll tell us who they're subcontracting with. Um, it's within the bid package. They'll just name them and
what they're actually are going to be doing and then what the contractor themselves are going to be doing. Okay. Now, can that contractor that they contracted to contract it out? So, like a sub sub Yeah.
I don't think that's ever happened before projects, but I don't see why not. I've seen it happen in the federal government. That's why I was asking that. Um, where literally they'll go four vendors deep and then when something goes south, the project goes south in any way, you're kind of stuck
holding the bag. So I was curious if that's something that we allow because or if they would potentially do that. So Right. Okay. But we haven't ran into that. Council member Jackson, you are absolutely correct. In the federal government that happens a lot because I
used to be connected also with the federal government, but um I could tell you here at the city, I haven't seen it go beyond to like third and fourth, you know, right? Um and uh so I don't see that happening. I I don't ever recall
that happening in a a third scale or fourth scale uh level contractor, but we they do have of course they do have subs and whatever. I mean you have your tile if you have tile you have your tile layer that's a subcontractor contractor, right? But then they get the tile from a
manufacturer if you consider that a sub sub. No. Okay. just this would be like four layers of subcontract and the prime is ultimately standing there is what I've seen happen and the prime is ultimately the prime is
ultimately responsible right but that's a good that's a good point council Jackson because the federal government that is rampant and third and fourth they have a heck of a time getting paid on time too exactly and I don't think I don't think that would be the case with the amount of money that we've got that
they've given us for a bid on this, but I've seen it happen, so I was just curious. Right. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Tam. I'm glad I had to deal with a little bit. They're not pleasant. Any other questions on this one,
council? No, I would just like to say thank you so much for the additional information. That really helps us and um clarifies the questions that we have. Thank you. And I give a special credit to to Lisa, our office manager, who who tracked uh
was involved every time a contractor came in to say, "You need to correct this, you need to correct that, and she worked diligently on this." So, thank you, Lisa. I know she can't be here tonight. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Do I do I just have a few basic questions? How do we know roughly how many offices
are in city hall on both floors today? Well, that that's a trick question, mayor, because I'd have to count them in my head real quick. I don't I never really I I would say 14 upstairs, maybe. 14 upstairs. I know how many
downstairs. Zack, I'm thinking about Lisa's directory. 12 downstairs, 14 upstairs, maybe. 13. Okay. So, say 27 offices total. Mayor 13 downstairs, 18 upstairs. 18 upstairs. Oh, thank you, Mike.
So, 18 on the upstairs, second floor, and 13. Yeah. 30. That's 31. Are you counting the mayor's office? Okay. So, said 32. Okay. And this would take us to Well, then we'll have 35
because we'll have three in that big room. And that big room was not counted as one of the 18 upstairs. No. Okay. Not counting doors, just basically office or spaces being used
for for office today. Um and the timeline phases when do we think Tim I'm sorry Tim timeline I guess when it would if the bid is once
this moves forward um how long do you when would it start roughly and and finish estimated? Um, normally I leave that to the contractor to tell me, but I'm going to guesstimate that they should once it's
approved by the council, I'll send them a notice of award, JC a notice of award. Um, and then once I get that out, I'll send them the contract to sign, get notorized, everything, and then send them a notice uh to proceed. Once that happens, normally on a job like this,
it'll take probably about a week, a week and a half for them to assemble everything and get get me a good timeline. Um, I'm going to think that probably within a couple weeks to 3 weeks it'll start and then I'm giving it probably
about 90 days it might be completed. So by the end of the year, yes. Yes. Okay. the I heard a lot of the the comments. I agree. Mayor Pro Tim the and it looks like it's going to help.
My concern which might tie in more to what the mayor pro Tim was saying is that the the new hires capital asset or an asset um contracts manager. Contracts manager.
And then what were the other additions? There's a And then there's the re records uh a records manager. If I could real fast, don't forget there's also people doubling up. Well, and that's what I was going to say. And then mayor, we have the HR assistant, Kelly, who's
sitting next to Natalie in the HR director's office. So, she would move across the hall. Okay, that makes sense. And that's the three and then but it'll be and then so there'll be two more potentially because there's other shared I think it is is another one but that's
that that basically gets everybody's one then we we were Kelly coming out of the HR director's office. So the contracts asset manager would that would fall under like a finance actually right now we're determining whether that comes
under the administrative director at so when we get a new city manager that administrative director that person would come under me or we're going to look at a little deeper because this could actually be a line uh right under and work directly for the city manager
as the executive assistant Lisa works for the city manager. So, what we're going to make that determination. Uh, we got to discuss based on duties and Okay. So, it potentially could work for the it's either going to work for the city manager or me and the Thank you.
And then the other one would be more of a a records city clerk city function. Okay. and then the split. My concern I understand the existing would be that the
the new city manager would would it be better to to wait uh for the new city manager before making expansions? Not not the expansion side. I understand the common sense of just
optimizing our space like that is I get that and that makes sense. But the hiring of new positions and things like that is the only thing that may gave me some pause just talking openly about creating new positions before the the uh a new city manager
came in. Um and those are my comments. Yeah. Yeah. Mayor, I will tell you that the previous these were discussed with the previous city manager who did support these to be part of this year's budget. We actually delayed a year. We talked about this
last year, but um we actually delayed and this was part of that plan and we saw the the need for those positions to help us be stronger internally. So, we were going to do do that, you know, and get it in this year's this next year's
budget. Actually, actually, the records manager will be the the contracts will be for next year's budget, but the records management is going to be brought on soon. Okay. And the the um the the asset manager would be
brought on till one October, but both of them in the year 2025, right? the the the asset the contracts asset manager 2025 but the records is going to be brought on here in a few few weeks. I would be for you know 100%
making the office upgrades expanding for the sake of this agenda item moving. I'm just concerned with we have not adding a new position that seems like it could be a good idea. um just don't want to build
the office space for something that maybe we don't have the ability to hire. However, uh it's not a big concern. No. And we did in recall for council just for councils uh we remember we did let
go two of two employees. One uh was um William and um Melissa. They were they were doing all the records and we did let let them go because they were primarily scanning and things of that
nature. So we you know those people that was a part-time position and uh the other position I believe was full-time um a little lower grade what have you. But now we're up in the ante here. But so basically as terms as funding goes, it's not we're taking it all in the
pants, you know, because we actually had those people on on staff before. Yeah, thank you for that. Um, okay, that was it. Just wanted to talk openly. I think the project better used in the space is is is great and I mean if if my concern
was valid and it becomes an issue, it really doesn't change, you know, optimizing the space. Uh the only thing I would get heartburn is if there was another project or something or we end up having to do, you know, fee increases or tax increases. And uh for $50,000,
that's why I say it's not a large uh expenditure that we would be I think in in that circumstance. Tim, I'm finished. I promise. Thank you. Yes, Council Member Jackson. And so Tim, from what I could see, and I just want to
make sure I'm thinking along the right w uh lines, we'd have some studs. We'd have some sheetrock possibly to enclose that al cove would have electrical for the correct outlet outlets and that kind of thing. Uh finish out if if there's
baseboards, doors. Um in the extra room, we would have some walls gone. Are we talking walls making three offices in the one large office? So, originally that office that Melissa was in that the
big room, it's kind of used as storage right now. That was originally made, if I'm not mistaken, as a I think David Green wanted to make it a workout room. Well, the room never ended up being a workout room. It just ended up being a huge room that people just kind of put stuff in. So, it was a it was wasted
space. And I think as as the city saw more and more of a need for certain people to do certain things within the city, they said, "Well, why don't we take this huge wasted space and just make it into three offices?" So, each office is going to have its own
door. The the neat thing about this is the doors are already there. Okay. So, uh it's just minor work on some AC stuff. Uh this fire suppression system, uh walls are going to go up. Um, no walls are being torn down. Uh, some light switches are going to be moved
around, some plugs are going to be added, and that's about it. So, even demolition would be minimized in this case in both cases. Yeah, there's no demolition. No demolition at all. Just moving stuff around. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. I just wanted to understand the
scope a little bit. Anything else, council? None. Thank you. I'll make a motion to consider the approval of the city hall buildout project. I'll second the motion. Got a motion by
Mayor Perim Kellum, second by council member Jackson. Any further discussion on the motion. City clerk, please call the role. Council member Davis, four. Council member Jackson, four. Mayor Pro Tim
Callum four. Mayor Morrison four and council member Winnace four passes unanimously 5 on the agenda item 8A. We are now to agenda item
8B or second item for action which is the rocket launch impact monitoring study with the Florida Institute of Technology. This is a proposal or mo motion to consider the approval and of an agreement between the city of Cape
Canaveral and the Florida Institute of Technology to begin actively monitoring rocket launch impacts to the built environment. I do have a public comment card on this one as we referenced earlier prior to going council if we
choose we can hear those public comments but are there any technical questions on this for city staff at this time prior to doing so? clarify. Mayor, I have some questions, but let's go ahead and hear the Okay. public comment first. And um just so that you
are aware, um Zach is going to give us some more information on this and give us a little presentation about what he has included. That's great. Thank you. Okay, Miss Lillian Meyers. Good evening. Thank you, Mayor Morrison
and council members. So, I'm delighted to be here with you tonight to talk about this. Um, this I'm I'm sure we're all aware that launch frequency has increased dramatically and certainly has in the 8 years that I have been a resident here in Cape Canaveral in a
fourth floor condo on the Banana River at the very tail end of Cape Canaveral with a little bit of water coming right around the building all the way around a five-story building. So on the river with a uh a little water area back
behind us. So we're really susceptible to changes in the environment in the built environment. Not just the natural environment, but also what happens with the vibration and noise. Noise we'll talk about, but vibration is probably the more important element of what
happens with launches. So I do I do have some proficiency in this. I'm an entrepreneur and resident at Embry Riddle Aeronautical University. have been in technology and have done a lot of things around investment in space technology as well. So I think about it quite a lot and um certainly as the
years have gone by and the window rattling has gotten to be worse and the crack in my ceiling has appeared and a crack that goes all the way from the base of our building to the fifth story that was recently repaired uh began to illustrate for us the potential impacts on the built environment here. And I
don't know how many of you live in condos of you. Uh it's a little frightening to think about what the impacts could be. It's enough with what we have going on today and I think how many we had 36 launches so far this year. That number is uh projected to
increase by quite a a wide margin. And with the first tower being built out for Starship, um it's really important that we reflect on what's happening in Texas today as a result of Starship launches. And there have only been a few. So as
that becomes a part of our world here and the impacts on South Padre Island uh have been investigated and even studied by uh Brigham Y Young University with some recent really important findings in November of last year. They issued a
report in the let me sorry here read uh in the in they published it in the journal of acoustical society of America where they registered that the impacts of launches there is about 10 times what
a Falcon 9 launch is in a single launch over a 100 dibels in South Padre Island far away that's about the equivalent of a gunshot right beside you or fireworks at 500 ft away. So, it's really
crucially important that we pay close attention to what this means to our environment going forward. The other issue, of course, is that it we have, you know, the natural world around us. We're working hard to protect our river. We're working really
hard to protect all the other important environmental aspects here, including wildlife. And I know that that's not the purview of this city council, but it certainly is related and is something we should be looking to our friends in the state to be thinking about as well. Um,
so I have been thinking about this a lot and have been reaching out to poor Zach, thank you so much for for listening. uh reaching out to him with some regularity on this issue and am delighted to hear that he has made forward progress in
finding ways for us to do what has been done in Texas today and that's to monitor what happens seismically and sonically around launches to ensure that we have some recourse as a city as
residents as homeowners and as the built environment here to assure that if we see impacts we are able to address them and address them with those who have the right and authority to
respond. So those are my comments and I thank you very much. Thank you. That was the only comment card heard I had for that one. So we'll go ahead and uh close public participation. Bring it back.
Uh, Council Member Jackson, um, thank you so much for coming here tonight. We have had, uh, plenty of our citizens that have been really concerned. I myself had cracks all around my slider
now. So, um, it's a it's a scary thought with the power of this rocket. I had followed the Bokeh Chica village plight that they've had for years and they are getting reported damage as far as Port
Isabel, Texas, which is 150 miles away from the launchpad. So, literally there are lines set up for making claims and that sort of thing. So, I cannot tell you you once
again, thank you so much um for coming and I can't tell everyone how appreciative I am with Zach doing the work that he's done on this. We have clay pipes, we have claytorm pipes, we have older infrastructure. He has
recognized this and I am absolutely thrilled with the progress that he's made with what we're about to see tonight. So, Zach, I just had to throw that in. I'm so excited. I had I couldn't wait until after you spoke. So,
that's what I have. Thank you, council. Any other comments before Zach? Interim city manager. We're good. Yeah, we're good. I'll just say this. This is it is concerning because it the
houses I live in Cocoa Beach and the windows are shaking pretty darn good down there and there's supposed to be I think 120 launches. I thought I read something and she said there was 36 and it's going to be like 120. It is it's concerning. So I think this study will
be very important. Very important. And what they told us in a a tour that Zach and I both were in, they were shooting for something like 360 something launches by
2027. So that's a lot of launches. So Zach, the floor is yours. Thank you. And thank you to the residents that came out tonight. Um so you know a lot of what we try and do here is to mitigate risk but we can't
mitigate risk if we don't understand the risk in the first place. So this is our first steps at trying to understand what is exactly happening in regards to the rocket launches that are occurring um right next door quite literally. The city owes its identity to space travel
and the space economy. Um, you know, we're certainly supportive of it and like to see what it's done for the area, but we do need to understand as it grows what it will do to us. Um, and we have a lot of older infrastructure that will certainly feel impacts from this. Um,
just some of the things that I wanted to highlight. Last year, there were 93 rocket launches that occurred from either the Kennedy Space Center or the Cape Canaveral Space Force Station. This year, it will be upwards of 120. Um, and these are mostly with rockets that are
not even Starship. Um, the FAA recently released a draft environmental assessment that analyzes the possibility of 120 Falcon 9 launches annually alone from Space Launch Complex 40 at the Cape Canaveral Space Force Station. an
increase of 70 launches annually with 34 of those set to be booster returns to the landing zone which create the sonic booms. So that's with Falcon 9 alone, let alone companies like Blue Origin or Rocket Lab
um or United Launch Alliance. And then comes the real big question literally and figuratively, Starship. So, Starship is set to most likely make flights out of the Cape. SpaceX is shooting for 2025. Realistically, it'll probably be 2026. Um, but they are in active
development of their launch pad right now at pad 39A, and would like to also take flights out from uh Space Launch Complex 37, which is a few miles closer to the city. and they do intend to do dozens of Starship launches per year from here, probably making it their
primary location because I don't think residents in the Caribbean enjoy the Starship blowing up over them uh that much anymore as it has the last few times. So, I think SpaceX would prefer to shoot it off from the Atlantic coast uh instead of over the Gulf uh to
mitigate their risk from any potential launch failure. Um what this study will see is basically the Florida Institute of Technology which is one of the premier engineering schools in the country right next door to us in Melbourne. They will come in with a team of researchers to include
student researchers um that and they will start installing at uh public facilities and in private uh properties of our choosing um with written consent. um instrumentation to analyze air quality impacts, structural vibrations,
accelerometers, uh seismographs, things of that nature to see what is going on. Uh we really want to see what's going on with Starship, but this will show us what's going on with any type of rocket launch because the sensors won't just be turned on for a Starship launch. They'll go all the time, 24/7. Um so that will
be really nice. And they'll also conduct a literature review for the city to take any type of data and analysis that's been done already, which there has just in Texas, not here. Um, and they'll give us that. And then the data collection will continue for at least a year. And
everything that will be uh analyzed will be made public through the city uh with a hand with a report handed to us. Um, I do think we need to do this sooner rather than later. Uh, given that SpaceX does tend to work fast. Um, they
go quite quickly and given the prominence of Mr. Musk and the administration, I think they'll move even faster at this point. Um, so, you know, it's going to happen. We also have rockets like Blue Origin's New Glenn that will take off from Space Launch
Complex 36, which is very close to the city. That one is at the uh about the the tip of the geographical Cape Canaveral. Um and that is also a very large rocket. That's one of the largest rockets ever built. Uh and they want to do that with a a regularity as well. So
looking at multiple launches here with vehicles that could affect the stability of the city. Um, we'll probably end up installing some of these at city hall, the water reclamation facility, the community center, and then probably a few others at some private locations to
see what is being or what is happening there. I also want to point out that, you know, if we were to use a private engineering firm, I think the cost of this would be at least three times what we're getting for FIT, which is great. So, we'll probably save a lot of money here. And um what we could have in terms
of data because knowledge is power, we will uh be able to use in the future um if anything does happen. Um and and also to point out that this is to monitor launches and landings, but also it would give us amazing data and hopefully it
never happens, but if a launch vehicle was to fail on the pad or near the ground, that would be a very large boom and one that we don't want to deal with. So if, god forbid, that ever happened, we would be able to record that in this study period. So that's really all I
have. I'd be happy to answer any questions. I have a question for you. Is that Yes. Um, so could we would it would it be beneficial for us to have one of the monitoring stations further north in the city
closer to the port and closer to the beach side since we have Blue Origin out there so that we could compare the north end of the town to further south like at the community center. Yes. So the sensors would be spaced geographically across the city in a strategic way that
would show us the sound waves going through the city from north to south. So we could see what the difference is from one end to the other um and get that that data both in an east west north south direction. So the reason we have language in here for uh public and
private properties uh again with consent is that you know we don't have any public facilities really at the extreme norththeast section of the city. So that's where we'd have to rely on installing these at uh like say a private condo association so that we
could get the best data and the closest data that we can and compare that to a site further south say at like city hall. Okay. And then a second question I have for you and that probably will end up in it. I know that in Bokeh Chica and some of the surrounding cities that they
have the ability to um file claims with SpaceX when damages occurs to private and public property. Do you know I know that uh the city has sent a letter that you were actively involved with. Have we gotten any kind of response on that?
We've sent a few letters actually and we have not received a response. Okay. And if that does come to fruition, will this data this I would think this data would help us Yeah. with recovering um any
type of damage to property? That would be the hope. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That's what my question was. Thank you, Council Member Willis. And follow on to that, um, can we get any anecdotal
information on insurance claims from Texas? Yes, I think we could do I think that could be a part of the literature review and what they're doing. And I think we as a staff could also follow up with our uh our municipal friends over in Texas to see what they're doing.
Brownsville, uh, South Padre Island, things like that. Port Isabelle, I believe, is the one. and see how they've done it since they have a year or two under their belt now with some Starship launches. So, yeah. Well, the problem's going to be getting
reimbursed from SpaceX or whomever, right? Is going to take a lot longer than it even would for an insurance company. Absolutely. Probably similar way to how a hurricane once once your home has been damaged, you can't sit and wait around No. for a government agency
to deal with it. No, it's a good point. We need the data. It's similar to how FEMA works with a hurricane. Yes. It takes forever. And when you speak with those cities down there, if we can find out what they
have in place, if anything, to help those citizens that have damaged property, that'd be good to know. like you were saying. Well, I'm I'm as about as far north as I can get in the city and pretty darn close
to but you know, we're all dealing with it. I think we have a public comment again. Yes. Yes, please. And if anyone else chooses to speak on this, you please uh come forward. Yes,
Miss Lillian, I just wonder uh given that the city attorney is here if there might be some opportunity to ask or even demand once we have some baseline data that SpaceX and perhaps even the other municipalities that SpaceX establish a
fund in each of the domains or areas regions of the country uh that would be drawn down by local municipalities to help with these things both in municipal infrastructure and in homeowner claims so that there's they are the insurer of
record and not insurance companies as the insurer of record. So it would be a recommendation I'd make for associating city uh attorneys to to try to address this in a in a collaborative way.
Thank you. That's a that's a very good point because anytime we as citizens are going to make claims on our insurance, it's going up and we're already facing difficulties with a lot of people being able to
reside here. So, let's let's don't add any more to it. Sounds like reparations funding almost. Well, I think the uh complexity of this is even greater than that because say you have damage to your
condo and now you're going to get it fixed. Well, the launches are just going to continue. So, this could be very repetitive. So, you're looking at something that's like it happened, now it's done, and it's gone away. This is
going to just be this is a way of life here. We all know that. So, it's very this is a very complex issue. Very complex. Can I ask one question? Can I ask where your your address is? Okay. Thank you. I thought it was mine.
Okay. Thank you. And I have one more question for you. Council member Davis. Good. Yes. Council member Jackson and Zach. Do you do we know when the EIS will be back? We've been being promised that since last December. We have. this when it was
supposed to be. We have and we don't know. Um they still haven't made a final decision on whether or not they will. So construction of a launch tower has resumed at pad 39A at Kennedy. They've started to build the flame trench and
the launch mount where the vehicle will take off from. The big decision is uh space launch complex 37 where the old Delta 4 heavy used to lift off with United Launch Alliance. SpaceX has acquired that pad on the Cape Canaveral Space Force station and is looking to
disassemble it and rebuild it with a launch tower suitable for Starship. Uh um that's the one that concerns me more if that that's the one gets approved. The alternative is they build a completely new pad slightly further north that would be called Space Launch Complex 50. That doesn't exist at the
moment. And then there is a third scenario which is a do do nothing scenario, but we know they won't take that option. Um, so that's the one that we're waiting on to see what they want to do and that's one of the ones that we did send a letter for saying basically, hey, what are you going to do if
something happens? And we have not heard back. Um, they also, like I said earlier, it's in the agenda cover. The FAA did release another environmental assessment for subsequent Falcon 9 launches from uh, LC40. There's actually
a public virtual meeting for that tomorrow at 6 that I was going to sit on and see what they were saying about that, but we haven't heard back yet. Would you mind sending me the link to that? Thank you. Absolutely fascinating. I'm just all of
it. It It's if Yeah, we learn that and I think we we are learning that just one of the risks is the vibration. That's a big one. and the hairline faction to our interim city manager's point if if you know you noticed some cracking in your
wall on a Falcon 9 or you know to your point right when the 100footer steps the starship steps up right and we heard the decel 100 ft 100 dB at 500
feet or whatever it is I mean substantially more that hairline fracture that maybe you notice or whatever, it's only going to more than likely continue. And so they're going to help us understand, look into, you know,
what are the risks, things we may not even be thinking about. um animals, trees, nature, just the impacts of that is is all and you know my mind jumps to I mean when humans intervene for the for the
betterment you know there's times where we have to intervene it typically there's negative externalities negative problems the port is a is an excellent example of digging that canal back in the 50s and since then we celebrate sea oats and the sand dredging timely that
just finished or that class action, you know, lawsuit. It's a good example of something and it's this intervention, but you know, Cape Canaveral is on the front lines and we're over here talking about our different properties, but zooming out, we're all a big star right there. And so, I really appreciate
Council Member Jackson and anyone who's been involved in this. I haven't um even really registered. I mean, 120 launches, I've heard, you know, two or three a day. The open uh competitiveness of the space industry
and and you know, the expansions we're seeing at the county in Space Florida with the the sewage and those environmental issues of Sykes Creek and capacity. So, uh, thank you and thank you for, uh, getting this in front of us and Lillian, all your comments and
efforts to, uh, understand it, right? I mean, that's what this is about because it it's a lot without the data, without the evidence, it's very difficult. This is always the debates in college and schools. Yeah, but how would
you prove it? You know, you can't. And so, I think we're going to learn a lot. And um yeah, just my my input is wherever the sensors are is that there's and I know there will be some thought you wouldn't want to to some lagoon side
certainly northern side as you said council member Jackson southern side or beach side um and the different types of structures how they might impact a single family home versus a condo versus a townhouse. We kind of got some diversity up here.
on where we live infrastructure. Yeah, our pipes, the clay pipe, all all that is is u that's a good point. We'll get a diversity of structures. I think a lot of condos are representative of each other. A lot of them were built around the same time. Um and then you can
compare that to, you know, a building like the community center, which is brand new. Cinder block, hurricane proof windows through and through steel. You know, what does what does it look like in that building? So you can get a good diversity of structural analysis.
Now, if it down in the Center Street Basin, a little crack starts to form in the street and all that flood water goes down, we're not going to complain about that. That's right. All jokes aside, thank you. I would like to make a motion that we
approve the $10,1910 to uh work with FIT Mr. for the deliverables that Zach has discussed. I'll second. Okay. Got a motion by Council Member Jackson and a second by Council Member
Willis to essentially approve as written and proposed. Mayor Pro Tim Kellum. Yes. Um I have a few u things to that I've thought about, excuse me, through looking through this.
Um we live next to the port. The port is majorly gearing up to help the space center to provide more things for the space center. Um what you know you say that things are
happening in Padre Island and all that. Do we have data on how they are um re recouping um losses that they have? Do we have any information on that? Um my other thing is um what can we ch I mean what is the
recourse if we come up with this and it says we get all this information and they say you know oh this is bad or whatever are we going to stop the space center from doing what they're doing and that the money that they bring into the
county to our city to the state um I just I you know and the $10,000 for the study. I just think it's it's not that much money. Like Zach says, if we had it from, you
know, an engineering company, it would be much more. But right now, I think the $10,000 we I would like to see us spend that money maybe with a college or whether to analyze the air quality and
the um things that are happening in this end of town with the giant rock mountains behind neighbors that are in their yard and they're breathing this stuff and it's affecting their real estate value of their homes. Um, I think
that's more personal and something we can actually do something about. Um, and I would like to see the money, the $10,000 spent on something like that. I just don't see what the recourse would
be. I mean, I understand cracks and condos. My house was built in 1962 in Harbor Heights, which is north. Um, I have cracks in my house, but you know, things settle. Um, and how would you prove that it came from, you know, the
space center? I just think that it's a money, a lot of money right now, $10,000, and we need, you know, we have cardboard coverings in the Nancy Hansen over electric boxes that we could spend that money right now. I mean, down the
road if maybe in the next budget we could uh allocate money for that, but right now I can't see spending that kind of money on something that in the end, what's it going to do? What are we going to do? Are we going to stop SpaceX? And
I mean, it's we're in the race for Mars. It's, you know, it's happening. And, you know, people that come and live here, it's called the Space Coast. It's, you know, I hear it all the time and, you know, there how many shuttle launches
did we have and it shook the windows and um I just think I I can't support the money for that right now when we have other things that really need attention and um really concerned about those houses down there with those rock piles
behind them and they just keep getting bigger and bigger and these people, you know, they have asthma, they can't breathe. breed. They're moving out of their houses. It's just I can't support that money for that right now. But I understand where you're coming from and
it's very important. I just think the money could be used for other things that we need right now. Thank you for that, Mayor Peram. Mayor Mayor. Yes, sir. Inter city manager. Yeah. Um let me add let me add
some perspective to this. Um the uh and if there needed to be a study or for what you had mayor prom we do have the dollars available and we do have the we have this $10,000 available but I would just want to look at it in this context
is that the space industry and the launches are only going to increase and if it's causing internal damages to structures it's good this study like this takes place because we can see the intensity and how far this is going
because as if they could get an idea if just based on the launches we have now is causing this much damage and as they increase then they can measure that and if it's going this much the only thing I would say and god forbid it ever happened if a structure ever
collapsed then that's where there'd be a national outcry like what happened in Miami when that condo collapsed and then now they you these guys have all these expenses, right? They got to have certain things done or whatever. So, the
point I'm making is is that the attention has to be brought just for the safety and concern of those because we we don't know what the long-term effect will be when this stuff increases and these rockets get bigger. So, I think
the study is well worth it and um uh this is money well spent. I mean, you know, peace of mind and I only think that this is probably going to get even more fiercer and um you know, it's better to be monitoring something like
this than, god forbid, somebody's house collapses or something. You just never know. That's my two. I'll say too for the you bring up good points, Council Member Kelm. It's it's it's good points in regards to the space shuttle which
happened. It's a 30-year program. great success for that. The space shuttle comparatively only flew a handful of times a year. And when you're now talking about a vehicle that could launch upwards of
50 times per year, that is three times as powerful, that becomes a problem. Um, and should, as city manager said, there ever be a situation where, god forbid, there was an incident and we
don't have this, that's it. Those calls are coming and we best be prepared for that. I'm not saying that's going to happen. You just always want to be cautious about it because that if Starship went off once or twice, boom, program's over, failed, whatever, done.
Yeah, I don't think it'd be that big of an issue. But when you're talking about that regularity, that that is something that needs to be monitored. And I think a really good example is Port Canaveral and what they did with the harbor cut that cut off the beach's natural ability to renourish itself. And the city and
the city of Cocoa Beach, I think one other entity, they did do something about it. They went up against Goliath and they got something back. And we now have beach reourishment every few years because they made a damage to our city and they're paying for it now through
the federal government, the Army Corps of Engineers to give us a beach so that homes don't fall into the ocean every few years. So I think it sets us up strategically. The issues you're talking about with those rocks are definitely pertinent, but in terms of a threat to
the city, this impacts everybody. You, you, everybody, this building. So, it's a long-term strategic mitigation strategy for us to be ready just in case the worst ever happens. And when there is that level of frequency, you know,
air travel, great example, one of the safest, if not the safest form of travel in the world, but stuff does happen. So, when you increase the frequency of these things, it increases the frequency of risk that something bad could happen.
That's all I got. And it would give us a gauge to go by because if it happens on the back side and we've had all of this vibration that has increased and we've done nothing beforehand to judge what it was with the number of launches we have
now. We don't have much argument. We can't how are we going to prove that those things happened or it potentially caused it. whereas and Bokeh Chica has gone through quite a bit of that and
there were even you know discussions of Elon buying the entire village and there were some holdouts and there were about half the people that sold out and weren't happy because they didn't get the money they wanted and they were very similar to this community where they
were this small town on the beach but they didn't have cruise ships and all this they just had nature um and they're saying we can't find a place anywhere where that is like what we had. And so as we look at that and look at what happened down there, because there were
a mile from the launchpad, there was debris landing in people's yards when they first started. And as we increase that frequency, like Zach is talking about, we're talking about a massive rocket. When you look at the information
he included, this is a massive rocket. This isn't a little little guy. Um, and that's where we have to think, in my opinion, we have to think ahead when we talk about condos, um, and we talk about cracks and things
like that and damage. Yes, we all know building your house on sand, it's going to settle. But we also have many condo complexes in this city right now spending millions of dollars to do concrete
restoration due to the SBD4 legislation. And if it's got a crack in it now and they do the restoration for it and it vibrates again and gets another crack, it's going to be unsustainable for the condo complexes to
keep fixing those with what they're having to pay. right now to do that because there are people with assessments that are getting hit with 50,000. Down south we I haven't heard of anyone here, but I I know down south there was a $400,000 assessment in Orman
Beach there was a $200,000 assessment and you can't even sell your condo that way. Now, with the number of condos we have in the city, if we aren't proactive to be able to define how much vibration do are we getting before they
start shipping up, sending up this starship, uh, we have no gauge at all. And that's the the reason that I would I support it is because to prove anything, you have to have a before and after to
really prove anything. Um, I know there's a lot of things in the city that we need right now. Um, but I think that in protecting our city for any potential damage after what I've investigated that's happening in Texas that this is a
smart move. So, I'm in favor and I already made a motion so I'll I'll Yeah, we got the motion on the floor to please approve and we're in the discussion. Um, council member Willis or Davis? No. My comments in response to Mayor Pertim and some of the comments that we had
today are I agree with you on uh the air quality issue as far as priority relevance control what we actually was with within our environment what we have uh those issues need to uh be resolved.
Our role in that is where I'm a little gray. Um, I want to do something. You know, me and I I uh that's that's salient and it and it's we've been made aware. Um, and I know that the former
city manager and I had talked about some sensors and some things. So, as we head in, well, this Thursday is our budget workshop, right? The first one, 17th. let's make sure that that we we we can go in and and tackle
whatever our role is and maybe our city attorney can help understand where that is at at that time. But thank you for bringing that that up. That's um when I put those side by side that's I agree where
I think but it's I the substantiality of this massive rocket and the impacts and the benchmarking and the data point um I think we should do this as well and
I look at this I'm like geez uh you know we're we're why do we this is a federal federal program that's, you know, on federal property. And I think uh the worst thing that could happen is
$10,000 goes back, we get data uh that that gives us some sort of uh confirmation or acknowledgement. But uh I agree it's it's going to be very
difficult. However, we at least have a chance and uh it it's not, you know, war on the space program or we are all we love our space. We support it. Um it's going to grow. I think we just don't
want to be in a position to where uh should a coulda and uh you know there's still a chance at that point in the event you can go through. Um, but my hope is that we could I will learn more. more. I know council member Jackson and
Zach and everyone who's been Liliam involved as a public is that if there are other entities um I just had a chance to meet at the um Congressman Heridopoulos, our new uh
US Congress asked to meet with some of the mayors within the port district over and uh Captain Murray at the port and his one of his big open questions is just you know how can I help? What can we do? We just got back and before
circling back um we were supposed to set a time and meet again and this might be something that we I want to plant that seed. What is the fed's role here? And certainly the state the $10,000 is there a grant. Is
there anything that we can do to get that money back to address Mayor Pro Tim Kellum's concern with or without it? I think it's uh I do think it's a good move and a and a good opportunity with them
um to learn and if we can somehow work to recoup those dollars or say why why is little old Cape Canaveral footing this bill? Well, it impacts our residents um and businesses and community and geography and wildlife and
quality of life overall. Um, and I think that there's going to be avenues. Certainly the port is to your point whether you're northeast Shorewood. I would think Jetty Park is technically the most northeastern on this side of
the channel and um, Council Member Willis, I think you're on the the the other side of the lagoon, most northern, and Council Member Jackson just south. I I guess I'm the most southern of the impacted the
the least, but uh I think it's a good plan. It does come with some risk, but those issues that you raised, I would rather cut other things or trade off other things than this one. Um, and I think if we do a good job and
FIT is going to be far better than me about, you know, making the diversity and making sure that we're approaching it from a academic standpoint. I I I have a lot of confidence in that program and in the relationships uh that we've
already seen and some of the uh things that they've helped us with. So this is an impact study that's just to recap $10,000 roughly timeline it. I think it May 26th I think it would it would be a
start we'd start tomorrow and then it would go for about a year to next to next May and then we could continue it if you want or we could discontinue it. It was it's you know to see how it goes. And in that period of time we'll have an
estimated 90 launches roughly. Probably more. Yeah. Probably 150. Okay. Some of them will be New Glenn which is outside Starship. One of the largest vehicles ever made. And there will probably be at least one or two Starship launches from
the Cape by that point. It's massive. Yeah. Yeah. It's twice the size of the Saturn 5 rocket which brought us to the moon in the first place. Thank you for your illustration on the last page there. That's really uh eye opening. But new blend yeah 45 ft double.
Um there'll also be a space launch system launch which is NASA's primary vehicle with the Orion capsule and part of the Artemis program. Artemis 2 will go off with first manned crew to orbit the moon since 72.
So that is also not a small rocket. One of the comments that's relevant to this was in our advertisement for the city manager like how did I connect it to this when we say you know we're selling Cape Canaveral which we all love
Cape Canaveral and we talked about the proximity to the space pad. I think it was less than a couple miles it mentioned in that program and and it was brought you know it's at least 5 miles but it is a couple I mean 29A
which I don't know Astra or one of the smaller in New Glenn will that is assuming that one is that the closest one if it is will there be any operations on that one this
year I don't know about Astra probably um because there's a lot of left. But Astro is a very small rocket comparatively. I wouldn't be too concerned about them. New Glennon would be my biggest concern to the closest launch pad, which is third uh launch
complex 36. 36. Okay. That's the one with the giant blinky towers when you look out across the beach and there's a water tower. It's actually I believe it's tallest water tower in the world, believe it or not, at that pad. I watched that last launch. It was incredible. Um we have front row seats.
I guess my question was launch complex 29 and 25 are the two that are the the closest oh at a bird's eye view. I could be wrong on that. I'm just looking here. Those might be inactive pads if they're okay left over from the space race. So
that would be the ones that if anything ever popped up there and became uh after the 26th of the year, you know, that would certainly um but again the benchmarking if we got data further away from us, we could make some assumptions
and at least back into right to assess that risk. So I've said enough. I think uh I'll I'll say one more thing too and then I'll be quiet. But I think another good applicable example is we can't stop hurricanes, but why do
we study them? To try and make ourselves safer. We've changed building codes. We've changed building codes to deal with them. You know, not saying we change building codes based on this, but you know, if things got to a point where it's like, okay, we have to have the
city here. We have to have a functioning space program here. How do they live together? This is the start of how we figure that out. So, that's all I got. Mayor, mayor, mayor, if I may, uh, before we close this out and you vote vote on this, would the council be um,
supportive of we're going to do this study to, uh, make it more publicly known that the city of Cape Canaveral is taking part in this study because it's concerned with the um, effects of the
launches. Would you want to go to that length to to publicize it more or no? I I'm open just in my head my thoughts the city attorneys weigh in the legal things we may not be thinking of.
It's the only thing I I pause at. But yeah, as far as the marketing or like if Zach's going to be be be saying, "Hey, somehow through some venue, just to let you know, this stud is going on and the city Cape Canaveral is taking note of the effects, the potential effects of
this." Yeah. I mean, the public will know one way or another. They'll know right now. We're talking about right now in a public meeting. Um, other cities have done this obviously in Texas. So, you know, I don't think it's an issue that people know we're doing this. I think it's a proactive approach and I think it'd make a lot of people feel
good that we're doing it and then all the data will be made available through FIT's reports. So I don't see why not. And the last thing is the what Mayor Prom brought up. I support I I do support that mayor temp and I think that's something when we talk on
Thursday in the CIP meeting um let's let's see what avenue we have to go down to um you know maybe get something in the budget in one October from that. And that and I had a one comment on that
because I was thinking of it when this came up before council prior. Our um ex city manager had said we have money for the air quality test and we were going to be moving forward on that back then. So did anything occur with that?
I don't believe it did. It might have gotten lost in the shuffle with their departure, right? But you know me, I love sensors. if we want to get that train back going on the on the tracks. We can talk about that. I do remember that he was going to pursue that. I I don't recall anything that went forward
with that. I would have known because he would have come to me for the money. So, I don't believe I don't No, I don't remember uh that ever being pursued. Okay. I wasn't sure if it got budgeted for or not, but we can definitely do
that. Okay. Thank you. I think it's valid as well. something that uh we were supposed to be getting some concession from Martin Marietta or whomever to install them on their property near the residents. That's what I
remember talking about. Well, also it's it's a code enforcement issue, too, because they're encroaching further than they should be and and I, you know, um the city manager addressed it and code enforcement addressed it and then we had
the big change and now that it's moving again. Um so it's something that we need to stay on top of but you know those people are suffering there and you know a lot of people are moving or you know there's older people there that can't
breathe from that dust and it's important so we need to definitely take care of them. Well thank you and I think we um we'll have that in front of us here soon. It's certainly top of everyone's mind and thank you again. In regards to
this, the motion on the floor is to approve it as as written. It'll be for for a year and uh we'll communicate it's public and I was just reading in there about you know anything using the city cit. We've done this they have our
approval prior. We got that in the agreement and uh not concerned anyways about that. I'm excited about it. Um, mayor pro Tim Kllum if we can get those other ones through your concerns. Do you
Yeah, I mean I I I Zach made a good point. You know, why do we study hurricanes? So, we can't stop them. That's for sure. But yes, I I see where I I just am concerned with the things in the city
that really need our attention. But I will support this. Thank you. Anything else, council? Okay. Uh, and Lillian, thank you again if you're still here for your comments. Zach, thank you and all who've been involved. City clerk, please call
the role. Council member Davis, four. Council member Jackson, four. Mayor Prom Callum, four. Mayor Morrison, four. And council member Willis, four. All right, that was item 8B. Passes
unanimously. 50. Uh, approving the agreement between the city of Cape Canaveral and FIT to begin actively monitoring rocket launch impacts to the built environment. This great. Thank you again. And with that,
we can move on now to uh item 8 C, six, solar light fixtures, Greybar First Light Technologies proposal. And it's a motion to consider the approval
of a proposal from Greybar First Light Technologies in the amount of $34,2356 for the purchase of six solar light fixtures to replace existing lights in the parking lot at Manatee Sanctuary
Park. Mr. Androme City Manager, anything here? I mean, we got the agenda we need to go over a highlight. Uh, no. if Molly would like to say anything about uh this. It's a budgeted item. Uh we've been waiting to do it. Uh and I
appreciate staff getting all the leg work done so we can move forward. Council, is it is it in this budget 25 CIP PRCA6? It's for 30,000. Oh, it's right in the
summary. CIP PRCA6 budgeted cost of 30,000 and this one's a over. Yeah, it's a bit over. Okay. Yes, Council Member Jackson. on these lights since there's no images of the lights
themselves. We have some Tim, don't you get mad at me. Uh we have some solar lights on Ridgewood and throughout the city and they don't give out much light and it makes it very dark in certain areas. Uh, so I was wondering on these
lights if it's that same type of light because these are solar. So I just to chime in, I Yeah, the Well, it's the M Oh, no. Sorry, just jumped up page.
Um, so they're about $3,600 for six of them. Yeah. For those six, we have the 2008 9 OG, you know, the solar lights
that put on Ridgewood with the larger uh module, the panel on top, those are like wind sails. A lot of those through tornadoes and hurricanes went out. And I think after, you know, 10 years, those warranties on those inverters that are
built in and the ability started to go out and some technical problems above my head went out and had some trouble with parts getting them. And then they were those bigger ones with the kind of the traditional dome were replaced with a smaller, more efficient
um I don't know that if there was a difference in lumens. I know those old ones are right, those were orange and low light, you know, turtle friendly, but you know, you have a big LED FPL light right down in the halo and the glow of that. And then this one, some of
them are low. I'd love to be able to control uh lights eventually. Uh but yes, good question. Are they going to be similar to those new versions, Tim? All right, so I'm glad you brought this up. Um, the ones on Ridgewood were purposely
bought for Rididgewood be to be turtle friendly and they're only for the Pedways, not roadways, not parking lots. So, they're a lot lower, okay, ambience wise. The ones for parking lot, if you go out to our wastewater treatment facility at night, it's lit up and
believe it or not, it's all solar. So, those are the kind of heads we're pro you're probably most likely going to use in a parking lot. Um, they also have another light that they've come out with which is called a uh a
BFL. I'm not going to say what that stands for, but that's what they called it. Um, but that one is a roadway light. And that one's like really powerful. But that's not the one we're using here. it's going to be for uh she's going to be using the one for parking lots that
has a good and I agree the ones with the sails, you know, they they kind of outdated themselves. Um and and I remember going over to this brand um afterwards and the only reason I did that is because it was more low profile since we're hurricane prone. We're on
the shore or on the beach. Um they're easier to take down. They're on uh hinged uh poles, believe it or not. But um yeah, I think they'll be a lot better than what we have out there right now. Okay. I just want to make sure because there are spots of Ridgewood that if there's not an FPL, you're totally in
the dark. And it's so that's scary for a lot of people and they tell us that. They tell me that. Um okay, the other question. So these go in the parking lot at Manatee Park. Um and the park doesn't that one get a
Doesn't that have a gate? Well, no. We changed the gate closing at dusk, right? That's open for part for the chargers now. So, that's why we need the lights. Okay. That I wanted to make sure I was thinking had it right on that. Thank you. I just wanted to come up and speak
on the the lights themselves. I've done a lot of studies with them and stuff like that and trying to find the best uh the best priced lights, but the ones that will last the longest but won't cost the city long term because they're
solar powered. Thank you. Do do we know the water? So that's uh obviously on the Ridgewood side closer to the beach, those orange turtle friendly lights. The you referenced the ones at the wastewater treatment facility. Well, do we know what those the wattage
or the limits of those are? I can get that for you if you want. I don't know it off the top of my head. Will these be as bright as those? Yes. Okay. Yeah. If you if you're going with the IPL, I think it's the IPL. Do you have that in there or the
schemats? Okay. Sccl2. Okay. Yeah. I'm I have no idea what that means, but I see Sccl2 here. Okay. Each one Yeah. Each one has his own little, you know, threeletter code code on it. Product number. Okay.
So, my question is is we budgeted. We talked about lights. Solar was like two or three years ago. Prioritizing lights. Just to recap, we talked about phase one was fix all
broken lights and we phased out the older ones at I mean they reached 10 years. [Music] Um and then we were going to this was more I don't know if we deliberated talked about it but then focused on the dark
spots in the city like we might need to add lights or we have you know too much light too lights inefficient because it was used as space and we've went through and and got to different places these lights the inventory or the of all of
our solar lights do we know if they're all operating and functioning city. I I guess June, I would let you the Ridgewood group. I know that there's still quite a few
lights that I've seen as I drive around that are still the old style. The new styles haven't been put and I believe most of those are on North Atlantic Avenue if I'm not mistaken. Um but what's that? Mostly mostly replaced.
What was that? The last thing you said. We have a few left to go. Okay. And three of these are unoperational at Manatee Park. So, they're they're installed, but they're not working. No,
there's lights that have been out at Manatee Sanctuary Park in the parking lot for over a year. We're replacing those. They they don't work. Three of them at least at Manatee Park. Yeah, it's it's
in the description. It's in the summary. Yeah. I do total replacement cost for all solar lights. Um because we also have a program out there that operates in the evening and as they're walking to their vehicles, it is dark.
So, this is only for the parking lot lights in Manatee Sanctuary Park. Got it. The wherever there are those should be replaced. My thing is we want to replace them all and buy
them all. And so on this purchase order if we've the next time we do a log or an inventory a survey we did to to I don't know if the parks were part of public works inventory. Yeah, if that's
the question. It wasn't on it. You know, it so we said all solar lights, but to your point, you know, it was Ridgewood. I remember kind of 15 out and these were a lot of the old ones. And then now we've got it down to maybe one or two. I would want to, and this is a dark spot
issue, people leaving. definitely want to do that, but make sure we got enough inventory to replace all the lights that are not working that that are solar powered
assuming it is a few more. So, are we out of inventory or all the or do we still got some? We still have your number. Oh, that's great. So to your point, you know, parks and recck, I guess looking at it citywide,
uh, and that's a question I have. Why would parks and wreck be handling lights when we've got a public works group? Wouldn't public works handle lights? And that way we make sure that we have inventory for the entire city, whether
it's a park or a street. Molly's just referring to the park. June is referring to public works. No, I understand. I just don't understand why public works assisted me with getting the quotes and identifying which ones needed to be replaced and which ones
were outside of their service. And and I understand that. I'm just questioning um why we have it lights broken up between two groups. To me, it's makes more sense for one group that handles lights to handle it. Um, but I get it. I think it
was more budgetary because this is my CIP over a public works or infrastructure maintenance, but Jim can speak to that. She's been here a lot longer. Okay. Yeah, it's mostly budget, but we help Molly out. Okay. I mean, she just has to
let us know. We'll help her out, but Dave does all the checks or we have one of the guys and I am that does one of the checks. So, it's strictly for budgeting out of the right bucket. Okay, that's I mean pretty much it. I support replacing all lights. That's
all I'm saying. And so abs and I do like the solar lights uh because when the power goes out and the grid goes out, those things are working. And uh I think we we were that technology in 2010, it's advanced so much. Literally
that panel was like this big and you get the same power in 10%. They keep on getting smaller and so much more efficient and you can you could put the as many uh kilowatts and watts on them and and power them up I think as we
heard as we want. Um so we're going to be talking budget. this conversation that I think we're having is going to come back up here uh if not this week when we circle back for the workshop, but um being able to make
one purchase order for all the lights if needed. You might have enough inventory, whatever's left over. Um, that's going to be a priority this year for me is to see what it would cost to get them all working and then also
get out of this, you know, we need three more lights game, maybe store some inventory so we don't have to keep coming back. So, the inventory is what I was getting at with why we're not doing it together. Because if we're going to do this, if if it's due to the budget
bucket, I want to make sure that if we shouldn't have lights out for a year in a park, we should have at, you know, we should have one or two to at least go in and and make it brighter than it is so that we don't have any kind of, you know, public safety issues with that.
So, I hate hearing that. And I want to make sure we have extras for them included however we need to do it. Budget going forward we make a mass procurement. So the mayor if like the mayor says if there's multiple lights out you know
we'll do a mass procurement get the best cost and then of course get everything we need and if we need reserves then we'll have reserves too. So that's how I operate. But we are, you know, we are budget department driven, but we also we also want to do things smartly and get
the best price. That's what my next question is. Do we get a discount, you know, based on quantity? I I I believe anytime you you buy quantities, you're going to get economies of scale. Yeah. Gray bar normally does. That's why I
wanted to ask as long as they're all the same lights. When you start switching lights, like the directors were saying, when you start mixing lights, they're different prices, then all those economies go away, right? You know, so Right. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Thank y'all. That was all I had. Anything else for
them while they're up here, directors? Thank you. Okay. Where are we? Have we had a motion yet? No. I'll make a motion that we approve the proposal from Greybar to buy more lights for Manatee
Park. I'll second. Got a motion by Mayor Pro Tim Kellum, second by Council Member Davis. Any further discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, please call the role. Council member Davis, four. Council
member Jackson, four. Mayor Prom Kellum, four. Mayor Morrison, four. and council member Willis four item 8 C passes unanimously 50 to purchase some more lights. Thank
you again. Which takes us to item I believe the final action item here 8 D records management software laserfish cloud upgrade quote and it's the proposed motion to consider the approval
of MCCI's quote dated March 25th 2025 in the amount of $28,48929 to upgrade the current Laserfish Avante system to the laserfish cloud records management software. Mr. Interum city manager, any
overview or highlight needed here? Um, only mayor that I think uh if we need additional comments or whatever, I'm going to have Mike Mike's going to come up and even um our city clerk make a couple comments on this um because um
they could basically tell you what the the driving point is for the laser fish and um uh so let me know when you get to that point and then he could come up and speak if if Thank you.
Uh, council, any questions on this one? Ready to hear what they got? Yeah. Mike, would you like to come up and give your four cents? Everything's double now. Good evening, council.
Um, just real quickly from my standpoint, this is a uh just a technical upgrade for um this would be moving us off of a serverbased system to a cloud-based system. Uh this be very similar to what we did with our CRM
recently. Um the primary users are not it. The primary user is really the city clerk's office and the public. And this um would be an improvement technically, a drastic improvement to the system
we're currently using. Uh the one we have is single source and it's quite frankly the system is obsolete. The cost I believe went up 15% per um this year. Is that correct? 15% for to stay on the baseline that we
currently have. It was a substantial jump and increase. And so from just an IT technical perspective, I believe it would be advantageous to us to switch over to a cloud-based system. Thank you very much. City clerk, question for you
on in your experience, have you worked in laser fish prior to this or did you use a different program? No. This is Yes, I do. It seems that almost every city is
using the MCCI code for the most part. Yes, because I did a survey um and the majority of cities have been using this and has the county as well. Not all but most of them. Thank
youelcome council. Mr. Mayor. Yes, sir. Council member Willis, I think it's a wise move to go to the cloud on this. Um, it only going to enhance our um efforts to be transparent and allow
everyone access to to records and I think it would be beneficial to us and the public to go to the cloud. So, That's great. I was going to say the same thing, but I same words. I agree
with it. That's important. Is this um is it $28,000 a year or is it a onetime fee? Is the initial purchase 28? It's 28,000.
What what is the yearly? The annual subscription. Yeah, the annual subscription will be different. Lower. It's 22,000. It's going to be lower. I I because I think the current one we had and correct me if I'm wrong. I'd have to look in the budget. Is the
current one we have like $5,000 a year or something. Is it I I don't I don't even know. $22,4983 a year for the subscription. It is a grand total of 21,000 uh
4725. Okay. For the service package and then you see they've given us some credits for support credits as well as training credits. Yeah. I believe last year there was a
there was a change recently. I'm I'm trying to think uh that um because of where we were at, we had like a $10,000 break. Uh that's why I'm trying to think is it five or $10,000 because I remember in the budget uh Mia and I actually were
able to adjust the budget down by 5,000 or 10,000. It looks like 5,84077 for an estimated existing support credit. The thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around here is
we've got 22,4983 for the an recurring annual support and subscription, but then it gives a grand total of 21 um 4725. So is that those two different
separate costs? It doesn't look like it with the way that the bottom line is with the total price. So that's where I'm trying to I see that's the M MCCI service package and
one's a support. Right. Right. That's that's not the Okay. So I don't think the other those are the other parts of those are we're incurring the cost for that. But I see where you're saying a
recurring annual support subscription 22,000 laserfish training center. And this is where I'm a little bit confused. Mike or Esther, if you could help me out here when I'm looking at this. Is this whole package something
like on page five? Is this something we just This is recurring so we get the same service every year. Is it the 22,000 or is it the It's a bundle packet which is
incorporating more than what we currently have. Right. Because there's a certain amount we're paying already because we have laser fish and then we would be giving that up to go to the cloud. That's the part that probably isn't reflected in here, Council Member
uh Jackson, to show you what the net would be. Well, and that's why I'm Yeah, I This is the first time I've seen this. Of course, I know y'all just been working on it. Think I have the net, but I understand what the annual subscript recurring subscription is. We know we're
going to have that every year. But when you come over to the service package, that's usually an addition. And you see it's got the data migration for moving us over, the records management configuration for them to go in and
configure the um the cloud server for the for our account. Um the repository administrative training, user training, implementation management. So this is all implementation which normally would be
in addition to your subscription fee for a year which would make that not what we're looking at bottom line for this. So so that's where I'm trying to understand and then they came in and gave us all of our support credits for
this. So um you'll see you know where it's coming in and giving us the the existing laser fish software support credit total of 382619. Then it comes in and gives a subscription total of
201459 for a total credit of 5,8477. But it's like part of this is not added in unless they're not doing one of these things because over on the left page on page five, that's the um annual
subscription that is in here. Um the supplemental Oh, okay. Wait a minute. Here we go. Manage support. Nope. Yeah. Training center. That's the recurring annual cost, right? I understand. And
I'm looking at they've got but then we have we have the total laserfish project cost which includes the migration and our credits which end up being 28,48929. That would be the this
one-year cost. But this that's not including the subscription cost. It is. where at where you see well I mean it's the grand total of that subscription but you're bringing it in or should be bringing it in right I I
I think what's what's what's going on here is so to get the cloud and correct me if I'm I'm wrong it will cost us 28 uh400 to go to the laser uh fish cloud
then what would happen within the budget is that whatever the laser fish is now whatever that cost is we're being charged now and I and and my apologies I should have that I should have that in front of me that is going to be replaced by whatever the cost annual cost is for
the cloud that's where the the the differentiate the differentiation would be for this so we are paying the 28k for the cloud but now as we move forward
what will it be in the budget each year? And um so I would have to look at what we're paying right now. And I wish I had the computer with me for the look for the invoice and then I would be able to differentiate between what we're paying
now and what we will be paying because that's going to be the difference. So the whole thing right now council is voting on is the investment in the laser fish cloud. But the piece that's missing is to convey to council what what are we
going to pay after that annually because the old one's going to be removed and the new one's going to come in just like kind of what we did with um BSNA cloud when we got that we actually got money reduced because we went to the
cloud and we didn't have the net anymore which I think in that case was $46,000. We got uh credit for something along those lines. So, um thenet version was costing us 46. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm
just saying that that based on what? No, the the $46,000 was it was it was two parts. There was the 46,000. Mike, do you recall the I'm
there was two figures to bring on the cloud was what uh the total was about 98,000 there. Um and then but over time because we already had put money into it for the annual fee, it was 40 something,000. So that that rolls down
and the longer we waited to approve it, our costs went down over that because we were burning money that we'd already spent basically. So that over time that rolled down. So the longer we kicked that down the road, it was actually cheaper for us instead of going up in price. Just kind of the way the pricing
model worked. And this is kind of a similar situation. Now this one is not my project, so I really can't speak to the details to this, but when we did meet with MCCI, it was a very similar model in that there's an existing cost that we've already funded and then that
would be attribute um rolled into this cost and then so it would it would lower the cost. Now, those I don't know the deltas on because like I said, it's not my project. Okay. To to Council Member Jackson's question. I just broke it down. And all of the If you take the uh
grand total plus the installation over on the right hand page, total that minus these credits, it's going to bring you down to the 2848929. And then our annual subscription fee
is over here under the 1573583, but they add in the manage support um site license and see that site license won't be applicable next year um for the 2300
or the 2790. So it'll be a little over the 1,50073583 for next year. So it's all those credits that brought it down. And in answer to your question, just to give you an idea, yeah, that BSNA, our manual maintenance fees for the year were like
21,000 every year for BSNA. So to answer council uh member Willis's question. So that was that was like 21,000 uh that we were paying for the BSNA net. But so now now it's different of course
because we have the cloud. But yeah, that's a good all all of these credits brought it down, but it is the the page five and the top of page six was the total they gave us and then they gave us credits to bring it down to and what Mike was talking about is that now
whatever's sitting in the budget on Laser Fish Now based on the timing of buying this and what's been paid in and then whatever that fee was then, you know, that'll be adjusted for the first year and then after that we would be
paying the uh you said the 157 1573 157 so it's it's a little you know that's what it costs for software for these credits I mean we paid that money it's just it rolls over into this
new one from our last so we really paid 40 2,000 and then it'll be 15 a year roughly roughly 157 not the 22 it'll go up. Well, of course. Um right. And and
then um u yeah the price the price over time will will will change but there will be by changing over. We're not going to get double charged. we will get a credit on
what we currently have and then going forward we will pay the rate of what of the partial rate of what the annual fee is you know for the remainder of the year and then when that's over we'll have an annual fee and we're going with
the laser fish cloud so on page one on the licensing guide are we doing the the business to the far right. Yes, the one you have pulled up. Is that the or the
It's starter, professional, or business. See, and that doesn't even apply to us because that's 25 users. Well, that's a minimum of 25. Oh, I thought it said max. Oh, no. Minimum. Thank you.
It would have Well, they all say minimum. I think your question though is like there is a maximum. Um, and it was 40 something in the what I saw. Mhm. Somewhere in here 40some users. Uh, the well the public portal web link view
under the down to Yeah, it's on this same page that we have pulled up. Um, under it modulate base license. that says 1,000 views, blocks of 10,000 views, and then
the the prof business goes to unlimited views. But it says the site license for the um Mhm. what population is for a population of 15,000 or less.
I guess today we had issues because this came up several years back. I mean prior to there was like something about the license subscription like we had eight or 10. So if you left it on your you know work computer here some people had
it on it was limited and there was some other technical the server and all that stuff. But today we don't really know what we pay in laser fish today. If I had it in front of me, I could tell you exactly what it was. I I don't know that number. Do we know if this is more
or less than what we're paying ongoing? I believe that this is going to be more to go to the Yeah, this I I believe so. Yeah, because I think I want to say it's currently if this is 15,000, the other one's more like 10 or 11,000. So, we're going to be paying a
little bit more. Yes. Mr. Mayor. Yes. Over time, these server-based local applications are only going to get more expensive to support. Mhm. And we we will end up paying more
in the long term. Oh, I'm I'm not agreed. I I didn't think it was smart for us to go on the server base from the beginning. I like the moves we're making and I think as long as I mean I asked if you worked with it in the past I'm
assuming being this is that you want to continue. Yes. Esther, please tell us how important this really is for the city clerk's office. Let tell the council how important this is. Okay. We're entering hurricane season and um
we will be doomed if anything happened to our server because this is on the server and um you know when it's cloud-based at least you know you have that more security you know knowing that your records have not
be destroyed or destruct you know destroyed based on um any potential impacts. However, um the searching will be much easier once we get the records in its proper form.
Um it be less expensive in the long run and unfortunately next year they're no longer going to support this system that we currently have. Um the support is going to go away and um the version that we're using now is not the current
version at all, you know. Uh so um that's what's happening too. You're almost being forced to just like we were with the BSNA cloud. Now they they basically it we it's almost like an ultimatum, you know, it's like it's going away. Um you could keep it a
couple more years, but it won't be supported. So this is what's happening. This is I'm basically I think this is pretty much a a racket the way they they do this. This is how they make their money. But you're almost pushed to move
over to something else. And and here we go. You know, a laser fish. We just did it with BSNA. It it's an industry standard. That's just the way software as a service is going to work. It's like 10 years ago industry standard. I mean,
the fact that I'm a I do not I never understood why everything was so closed here. And so I'm very excited about this. But we were working in the cloud. I mean, Salesforce was one of the first cloud programs out there. They kind of
started it. Now, obviously, Salesforce took a lot of people's money and they're big 800 pound gorilla and now there's more and but I think that this is the right move. Just knowing the costs, uh, it's going to be worth it.
Eliminates interruptions. It provides security. That's all great. Um, and the the other thing I would say is the MCCI uh program, they write our code book, right? Yes, they do. And I saw that you can request a printed copy. Are there
any I would like to get a copy. I don't know if that comes to barter in this or a part of this negotiation. At least the council has a a current printed copy as well of the code of a printed copy of
the of the code. Yes, of course. And they provide ongoing updates. So when we change our code and submit it, they'll they'll handle Is that how that works? and much more because say for example if you enact an ordinance today Mhm. and um
it can just go right out on the web um within a day or two um because you've actually made that action they work on that so expanding yes I know they offer maybe we don't utilize all their services so if that's
something that I'm very interested in utilizing more one that can provide services they're trusted reliable especially if it helps you and much more you can comparisons to see what other jurisdictions are doing at the same
time. You know, say for example, the fees or um you know, similar ordinances at an instant you can see what Oh, I love that. Thank you. You're welcome. Council member Jackson, I just have one last question just to make sure we're configured correctly is what I'm looking
at. Um because when you look at the licensing guide on page one, we've got add-on um option minimum of 10 for participant users. And then we've got the community users defined within the
bid, but I don't see the uh participant users defined really. So, I'm wanting to make sure because we got 15,000 um you know, less than 15,000 on the population. So, that's the um you know,
the community users. And then you'll see on page six under training center they they accommodated on our old system 25 thou uh 25 to 49 users but I'm not seeing
that participant user add-on over here in the annual subscription. So, is that in there? And I'm just not needing to worry about that, um, Esther, city clerk, or am I
missing something because I don't see the definition of what we have for our employee users. They're licensed meaning that um there are different categories whereby you can
be read only the users who are um licensed to monitor the actual um module um and um it gives certain security controls over as to what one
would be able to do with it. Um, as I said, the users can be the license holders or uh but it can be broad whereby the public staff or anybody else can access it. So, okay. So, they're not separate
add-on modules. No, for the participant us or the community user and the education users like it says. Okay, that's all I needed to know. I wanted to make sure we had those covered. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you.
Okay, we Okay, Mayor Pro Tim Kellum, I'm just going to go down the line. Anything on this? No, I'm ready to make a motion. You got it before. Well, ready when you are. Go for it. I make a motion that we um approve the upgrade to the cloud for
$28,48929. I'll second. Got a motion by Mayor Pro Tim Kellum, second by council member Davis. Any further discussion? Seeing none, city clerk, please call the role. Council member Davis, four. Council member Jackson,
four. Mayor Prom Kellum, four. Mayor Morrison, four. Council member Willis, four. All right. Item number 8 D passes unanimously. 50. Thank you. Thank you. Which brings us to item nine, unfinished
business, which we have no items. Uh, moving on to item 10, items for discussion. No items. And, uh, finally, 11 reports. We have two, uh, the monthly financial report, February
2025, and the quarterly Q4 2024 public EV charging station program report. Slight change. I just want to understand it. We used to put these underformational which we always I think defined as and please correct us if we've been wrong as hey
they'reformational. You don't discuss them under the reports here. Is it the desire that there's going to be a pro report provided or are we saying these are the reports provided? Do we need to take these up? I I I think just with the
change um and you know with the with the the city clerk I I believe that um in a sense they're named reports right that's the name of them but in the past basically it'sformational we don't need
no one has a matter to to take action on our vote so as they right I I could see where that was put under reports because it says reports But but in essence really these things are just informational and that's something we're
just we're adjusting mayor to uh new you know the whole me too. Yeah. Yeah. No that's Yeah. So that's all we just dropped that Esther. That's that's all. Yeah. Yeah. It's not not a big deal. But well, with that, I I guessformational if
there's not anything uh there. Did Did we We certainly can do our reports with this at this point, but I don't want to jump to our reports if there was anything in there that needed to be
addressed typically underformational. If not, I'll ask council. Are we ready to go on to our reports? City clerk, are we rowing along okay here? I'm city attorney.
Yes. I know that was time for reports. You got it. Let's do it. Mayor Pro Tim, you want to kick us off? I don't have any reports. Council member Willis, we hosted the
um Central Florida um FDOT safety steering committee at the Cape Center last week and it was well attended. We had good representation. Um, Zach presented uh information and a
presentation on the C5 and we also had a report from Space Coast TPO on projects in our area and I attended the Space Coast TPO governing board meeting this
past week and we have the confirmational vote on our crosswalk. So, we are fully funded now for the crosswalk. So, that's going to save us a half million dollars.
Thank you very much. Fantastic. Anything else, Council Member Willis? Not that that wasn't enough. Very, very good news. Thank you for sharing that, Council Member Davis. Council member Jackson,
I'm going to have a fun one and uh kind of an interesting one because I think at some point we as council need to discuss this. Um, I think we're in really good shape, but we all saw that uh the city did receive a Doge letter from the state
and John gave me that we were able to to answer positively on all of our questions that we had. However, just so everyone knows, they are looking at a that mentioned this 4 to 8 months or
longer um look at each city and cities are standing stepping up all over as well as counties in Florida because Governor DeSantis did just uh just he he went out
and and asked people please step up, ask to you know, opt in and volunteer. I think we're in good shape, which is great because we got those questions answered correctly. Just to give you an idea though, Bake County has opted in,
Jacksonville has opted in, Panama City has opted in, Penllis County has opted in, Walton County has opted in, the city of Gainesville has opted in, and Hillsboro County has opted in. So, these counties um in some in most cases,
they're saying this in a positive aspect. You know, we want to opt in. We want to get this um over with. It's going to occur. We think it's a good thing. We think we've got ourselves taken care of and we're ready to go. So, but I didn't know if some of you had
heard this through about um Governor DeSantis and his request for cities to step up and say, "We want to be transparent. We want to look at our efficiency. We think we're doing a good job, but
we're opting in." So, I just wanted to let you all know that that's something that's happening. Um, and just bring that up. I thought it was interesting how many have gone in and proactively opted in that I've seen so
far. Is there a place you can go to see centralized? They're I guess each independent city website or county. I heard counties and cities. Yes, they're doing uh from what I have learned, they're doing every or 67 counties in
Florida and every municipality. So, I think that's what the drive was with Dantis is trying to get the ones that know they're in good shape because it's that when you can't answer those questions positively in the
letter that was sent, those are the ones that are they're going to be going out and trying to help them and make sure that they're set up correctly and everything. So, I think that's what's happening. Um, for example, one of the council members in Jacksonville
um said, "This is great for transparency. I think this is a good thing for us to do to look at efficiency." Um, and he said, you know, he want he wants to do it. So, there are different people, different cities and different uh counties that are stepping
up saying, "Yes, let's get it done and get it over with, you know, so we can move on." Um, and then there are some that are, I believe, are dragging their feet and a few that are saying, "Whoa, no, we don't want to do this." But I wanted to give you an update on it
because, um, I found it quite interesting when the League of Cities sent that information to us. Um, you know, I wanted I wanted to keep track of this and see what's happening within our state. So, I just thought I'd give you an update on that.
That's helpful. Thank you for that. Is there anything else? No, I attended the Space Coast League of Cities last night. That was a wonderful night, wonderful speaker and um several of us were there
and that was my report. I didn't have anything as monumental as Dawn. We were all there and it was nice to have all of us were there and many of our city staff uh were there. So, yes, echo that. Thank you all represented.
Well, to add on to what you said about the Doge, the League of Cities is cautious. Florida League of Cities is going to be cautious on this because we already are being uh preempted enough by
Tallahassee with them telling us what we're going to do, what we need to do, and on top of all the unfunded mandates that are coming down. This is just another thing to make us have to do something else. So, it's it's going to
be cautiously monitored. Thank you. My reports uh would just be I'm I'm always the doge at the federal level, state. Yeah. When you get at the city level, I'm interested. I think we're always looking at efficiency, but to
formalize something to create a board to go through it. The state demanding it, I don't like that. I don't think we ever like that. Um, the state has functions and, you know, operational audits and things to measure program efficiency. You can look at wherever you want. There's obviously have costs. We've done
audits. We do financial audits every year. I think we did some IT audits. But right now where Cape Canaveral is in transition, it's for me my gut. It's just it's not a great time for us to go
launch into this in any type of doge is we're strong. We're mighty. We're fragile in a in a good way. I I I think we're banded together. We are re we're re we have new people. We have new exciting things, new programs. We're
transitioning obviously a big transition potentially in front of us here. And so my hope would be that that we continue to learn and figure out well what can we do and when is the best time knowing
that the state can speed up time and force us and uh preempt. Um, I I would like to begin uh kind of talking internally and maybe coming up some ideas in the next meeting too
without um pushing our resources right now with with the team we have and and John is the steady hand on the wheel with the support and I don't want anything right now to disrupt that. That's really
important to to I think that is in the best interest of the the citizens of Cape Canaveral. However, uh I'm very interested in, you know, a new city manager coming in to say, "Hey, we want to do this. We want to to figure out
what is the best way to retain our home rule that we can uh serve this." really rather surprised to see they are going to do like the four to five month thing because I haven't found any description of what that will be
like. So um interesting interesting that so many are stepping up but I think a lot of them are in situations where they want to get it out of the way. Mhm. So, but just to give you an update and the
questions that we received in that, all of ours were in a positive state, which is a good thing. And um that makes a huge difference because they're going after those that are not. Mhm. To do a
little more uh deep of an initial audit as from what I'm understanding. It would be great to say, "Hey, thank you for asking. K, you know, a year from now, look at what we're already doing in the spirit of efficiency and
improvements, you know, that we decide upon. Maybe we appoint our own citizen advisory committee that, you know, we can call it whatever we want. I'm not going to get but but the goals can be and the missions aligned." That's all I wanted to say about it. I think it's
good. certainly comes um if we can con lead it outward instead of being compelled that would be desired. However, citizens start coming up and and you know certainly top down
uh I'll be ready and thank you for for bringing that up council member uh Jackson and all the input we've heard. I don't have any other uh any reports other than uh things are moving along
and I'm really excited and continue to remain optimistic uh on the city of Cape Canaveral and extremely thankful to the city staff and everything y'all continue to do. I know every day we don't even have we don't know all the problems. We don't see
them. Uh but just know that we know they're they happen. They're they're always going to happen. And uh if there's anything I can do or we can do to support or help further, please let us know. Excited about some of the things we passed tonight, which I think
are the things we want to do right now to give you the tools you need uh in in records management and our IT department and some of the the pains and frustrations. Um and then uh the expansion um of of the city hall uh or
optimizing city hall. Um and with that interim city manager, any reports? Uh two small things. Uh for the meeting on Thursday, please make sure you bring your budget books. And the only other
thing is and uh to support my IT department, Mike and Duncan are sitting in the same office. I didn't say that during the expansion things, but we'll have room to where we separate, but I just wanted to make sure I care about you back there, Dunk. I just want to let
you know that. So, they are sitting in the same office. I'm aware. Oh, I think I mumbled it or mentioned it. Yes, I could remember that. You said it was an efficiency though from time to time. It's nice having the person there. We were small talking and passing. You know, it's Hey, you're right there. I
can ask you. Totally get it. But um that that's it. And in staff, yeah, the the new people on staff, our current people on staff, our IT department so strong and our city clerk and but our whole staff, it is so refreshing on the
positiveness, the motivation, and everybody is just given 100%. I am so thankful. That's all I got. Thank you. We appreciate you, John. Thank you. Appreciate it. City attorney who we also appreciate. How any reports?
Hopefully you appreciate that. You do. I like that. City clerk. Thank you. And you know you're appreciated. We're all appreciated in here. Everyone is appreciated. Bart County Sheriff's Office. Anything we
need to know? Reports. Report. Seeing none, we'll go ahead and end the meeting. Meeting adjourned.