The first um roll call. Mary Mascara >> here. >> Betsy Rock >> here. >> James Stoby >> here. >> Brad Purll >> here. >> Mary Lou Stant >> here.
>> And Jenny Scott is not present. >> Okay. >> And Madame Chair, if I can hop in real quick before we actually get to any of the action items or anything. Obviously, roll call is done and public participation is done [snorts] or public
participation is first, >> right? >> But before we get to action item one, which is approve or amend the agenda, uh we were able to coordinate a interview for an applicant to take our uh current vacant seat, and she is available today.
So, I've uh had Samantha place that agenda item. [snorts] So after public participation um when you go to approve or amend the agenda, you have the opportunity to add this if the board feels appropriate. And uh Miss Downing, the applicant is
available to be interviewed here today. >> Great. Oh, the first order of business is public participation. We do have a speaker card uh from uh Ward. Is it what's
>> Joyce Ward if you'd like to come up and speak? Is this on? So, I have been um attending exercise classes at the community center and had the fortune of meeting Mr. Perval there
and um we got to talking and he told me that he was on the board for the parks and wreck and I said I had some issues that I would like to bring up and he suggested that I come and speak at the meeting. So here I am. Uh my name is Joyce Ward. I live at Bayport Condos in
Cape Canaveral. I've been a resident for 10 years and I'm right around the corner from Manatee Park. Um, I have been enjoying the park ever since I moved in. Um, I was early on I discovered that there was exercise classes being
conducted there and um, I was lucky enough to find um, some professional trainers that were doing classes there and I've been attending classes there ever since. Um, we've had three trainers over the last 10 years, uh, conducting boot camp classes at Manatee Park, four
nights a week. And so, all this is to say that I've spent a lot of time at Manatee Park and I really enjoy it. I wanted to commend the city for having established this a well-used park and doing a good job of maintaining it. Um, there are there are lots of folks that
come to run and walk, exercise, walk their dogs. Uh there's lots of visitors that come to watch the sunset and look for manatees. Um and I'm wondering, we're all wondering where all the manatees are at Manatee Park because if I had a dollar
for every time someone asked me where the manatees are. Um over the past few years, I've been in touch with Mr. Mayberry to report some minor issues that need addressing at the park. um things like broken uh electrical
outlets, tissue in the bathroom, um and even a pesky raccoon amongst other things. Um he he and his team have been prompt to address them. Uh but I'm here today to raise one of the more frustrating issues to me and that is the
parking lot lights in Manatee Park. um for the past two years have been reaching out to him about the fact that of the five parking lot lights, overhead lights, only one at most is functioning at any given time. And it's been at least 2 years, probably a little bit
longer. Um when dusk arrives, it's often hard to you know get safely back to your car. So, um, we've g gone back and forth with emails a few times and he has suggested I think the last email I got from him was last year saying that there
was um a project that would be underway soon to replace all of those lights. Um, and so far I think they're still not functioning. So, I [clears throat] I wanted to bring that up to the board and see if there's anything that can be done
to uh get those lights working quick more quickly. >> I can help with that. >> Okay. >> The lights have been purchased. >> Okay. >> Um they are installed inhouse by city staff. >> Mhm. >> And one of the things that we have is
limited city staff when it comes to park maintenance. We are up to three um maintenance staff members specifically for parks and for the last 6 months they have been building the um concession stand. >> Okay.
>> So now that that project is completed and they are getting caught up on everything, the installation of the lights will happen within the next six months. >> Okay. All right. Well, thank you. That's good to know. Um, and then one of the other issues at the park is the water
fountain in the pavilion area. It's been very dirty for a long time. People approach it and they go, "I don't want to be drinking from that thing." Um, I think Mr. Mayberry's group has tried to address it, but in my opinion, it needs um replacing. It's I don't think
salvageable. So, >> it is not. And another one has been purchased. >> Okay. >> So, the lead time on that is several weeks. Thank you. >> So, yeah. >> Um, and then another issue I'd like to bring up at the community center. Um, it's a great facility. I'm happy to have
it. I've been attending a variety of classes there at the workout room and they are really great classes and I believe they deserve further promotion. I don't think they've been getting the promotion that they deserve. Um,
although the classes are listed somewhere on the Cape Canaveral website, they're difficult to locate. you really have to dig deep to find the right location for the class listings. And as a result, I don't think a lot of people are aware of them. Um, I'm just
suggesting that perhaps someone can take a look to at the see if the class schedule can be designed to be more front and center on the website. Um, I didn't find the class on the website. I I saw it promoted on the neighborhood app called Next Door.
um a class participant was raving about it, so I decided to try try them and I've been attending ever since. Um and then circling [clears throat] back about promotion of classes when we had um personal trainers uh conducting classes
at Manatee Park, they have to pay the city 25, as you know, I'm not telling you anything new, 25% of their revenue to use the park to conduct the classes. And I don't think that they were given the proper advertisement either. And I
think that's one of the reasons why our last trainer left the park. So I would just um request that at some point someone talk think about promoting classes better for the for the city residents and for others outside the
city. Um and that's all I have. Thank you for listening. Thank you very much for giving us your thoughts and and letting us know um how you enjoy it and things that that could
be uh upgraded and are in are in the pipeline to be fixed. But a lot of good thoughts and ideas for us to think about especially about promoting >> um the exercise classes. >> Um I have a question for Molly. Is there
being that the lights that's pretty much a safety issue, could that project be kind of pushed up in the maintenance schedule a little? >> It has been. >> Okay. >> I'm just not going to put a a date a firm date of completion on that because
anytime I try to do that, something >> preempts that. >> I I just wanted to make sure that it was >> because that's something that's going to be a joint endeavor. Three people cannot do that. Three people. It takes four people to actually hoist the light up
itself. And they will re removing and replacing all of them. Um and it also involves um adapting the current pads because of the bolt pattern on the the lights themselves. >> Oh. So it's a whole new structure. It's
not just >> Yeah. We're not just Yeah. the the the lights that were put in there um as as my maintenance team refers to them, they are close to what they call first generation solar. So, everything about them was it was time to replace the
whole thing. We do try to retrofit as much as possible, but when things are out in our amazing, wonderful, beautiful beachside atmosphere for so long and we go to get quotes for retrofits and the
company's like, "You better be sure that your poles can handle these still before you move forward with installation, then we have to consider the entire apparatus instead of just changing the head on it." So, but the lights um that have
been purchased and have uh recently arrived are going to be light years better because they're much more modern. They're probably closer to third or fourth generation solar outdoor lighting than that first generation because those
were installed before me. So, that was at least 12 years ago. >> Wow. >> So, they we had a good run. >> Mhm. good run for solar lights in a hurricane zone. But yes, that is a priority for us because it is a safety
issue. >> I have a question. You allowed to just That's my first meeting. So, >> uh, ask the chair. >> Oh, may I ask a question? >> Yes. >> Um, how do we how do we respond to the
question about um, you know, how we can better promote it besides thanking it? Is there any takeaway for us or how how do we I don't you know what I mean that Molly had answers to the first two and
the third not. So that's what I'm just wondering. I would expect that most of it comes from the staff, but it this was a a place where Joyce could let the city staff know when we have this meeting,
which was wonderful that she cares so much about the park and has all these, you know, thoughts about it. And so getting her public views out there, it gets passed on to the city staff also.
besides it sounds like she's been communicating directly um >> also with staff. >> So that's something that we will brainstorm with our our [clears throat] PIO and our facility managers to find
out better ways to promote and get those schedules out there. >> Okay. And >> and you'll want to talk into the microphone. I was also thinking just the first thought rather than rearranging the whole web page to make it easier to
navigate to the schedules just have a link on the page that takes people right there or something like that. You know what I mean? On the main page, >> right? >> So, okay, that's all. >> Yeah, fewer clicks the better. >> Mhm. >> Well, I mean, yeah, just being able to
find it in the first place is great, too. Thank you very much, Joyce. >> Thank you. >> Uh, next we move on to our action items. And before we um
approve the agenda, we have an an addition uh to the agenda. We have a um board applicant, Joyce Downing, uh who will be considered for recommendation.
And >> I I'll make a motion to add that um agenda item um after as number three after the minutes from last meeting are approved. >> Is there second?
>> I'll second it. Mary Mascara >> four. >> Betsy Rock four. >> James Stoy >> four. >> Brad Perll >> four. >> Maryl Stamp >> four. >> Okay. So, is there a motion to approve
the amended agenda? >> I make a motion to approve the amended agenda. >> I'll second that. Mary Mascara four. >> Betsy Rock >> four. >> James Stovey four. >> Brad Pll
>> Mary Lou Stant four. Uh next we have um minutes from the September 25th meeting. Um is there a motion to approve those minutes? I'll make a motion to approve the
minutes from September 25th. >> As written, >> I make a motion to second it. >> Mary Mascara, >> four. Betsy Rock, >> four. James Stoby >> four. >> Brad Pll
>> Mary Lou Stamp >> four. >> Okay. So, um we have the applicant. Um Joyce Downing, are you here? Wonderful. Um
uh if you'd like to come up and uh talk with us. Uh I haven't had the chance to to look at your application, but um thank you very much for being interested and wanting to be involved
and um to be part of it. Um maybe you can tell us a little bit about yourself and why you want to be part of the advisory board. >> Okay. Um Joyce Downing. I live very near here. Um I'm a 25year-old resident. No,
I'm not 25. [laughter] I would like to be >> I feel like it though, >> but I've been here 25 years and I feel like I'm an integral part of this community and I would like to see it succeed. Um I partake of all the
activities that I can in this city. I love the parks. I try to volunteer all the events. Um I'm always thinking of things to improve, but I don't always like to get up and make my voice heard because I can be a little pushy. [laughter]
But um I love this city as I say and I see it's I don't know it's kind of under attack from all sides at the moment. So that just makes me think I really need it to be the best it can be and its recreational and leisure activities and
cultural activities, you know, are are developing and are [cough and clears throat] encouraging people to stay here. And you know the more that we can offer as a small city the better off I think we are able to retain who we have and attract
the people that we want to attract. I have a background in health. I was a physical therapist for 30 odd years. Before that I was a trained dancer and before after that I was in casinos for years. I was on cruise ships. So, I have
a a background in entertainment, but I really am more interested in the community health and I realize that all the things that we have to offer here are things that will make people age in place better. And um also I have the time now and I'm not always the one that
wants to do the work, but I feel like it's my turn now when I should do it. So, I would love to be on this board. Well, thank you very much and we really appreciate it. Are there any questions uh from the board members here would
like to ask? >> Hi Joyce, my name is Brad Pll. Um you mentioned a few things and I have really two questions please. One, you said there are things that need
to be improved that you have noticed in the city. Can you name two or three things in your opinion that we need to do better? >> Well, I just go straight to Manatee Park. It is just a jewel. I am there
every day with my dog. >> Um, [clears throat] that's really funny about the manatees because I spend half my time down there on the boardwalk and people are going, "Oh, where are the manatees?" And I go out my way to explain that they are there sometimes, but mostly they're at Banana River Park. and I tell them where
to go and look there. Um, but it's not very safe to get into the park nowadays. That back road is getting very busy with traffic uh going to the port. And when you cross to the park, there's no walkway in there's only a driveway.
That's it. So, you have to walk yourself and your and the traffic down there. Um, and I think we could certainly create a pathway on one side or the other so that it's safer to walk and um, also create areas where you can walk into the park
without actually going in the main drag. And well, I'll just go on about the safety there a bit more. The um, the fences there are in terrible shape. I last week I had to say to a family, "Please don't let your kids jump on
those fences because they're falling apart. I go through them every time with my dog, so I know they're very shaky." And you know, I thought they were going to do something about it last week. I got really excited when I saw everyone there, but they were painting the lines
on the park, not the fences. So um also um I don't have a lot to do with the young children so I don't really want to talk about that but my background was in geriatric population which I am part of
now thank you very much. I always really wanted us to have a little coffee morning somewhere that we could invite people that were lonely in the in the area to come and sit maybe for an hour and chat with somebody maybe to lead them and then just to to chat amongst
themselves. So those are a couple of things I' I've thought about I would like to work on. >> Very interesting. Thank you for your ideas. >> Thank you. Uh, one other question. You said, you mentioned, and I'm going to
paraphrase, that the city seems to be attacked, being attacked on several sides. Can you expand on that, please? What do you mean? [laughter] >> But, uh, yes. Um, I'm very stressed at the moment
[clears throat] with the port and the the other things that we heard about recently about the U, Manity Park not going to be available. maybe for a while. Um just the fight to remain a a stable
community and I think that um we need leisure activities to offset that stress. So that's what I meant by being under attack. Too much stress. We need some more d-stressing activities here.
>> How does the port I'm I'm confused. that we have no control over the port. >> We have no control over the port. I'm just saying that they're an entity in this area that puts a stress on the activities in this city. >> Do you mean >> like by the traffic flow or
>> traffic? >> Mhm. >> Not being able to use Manatee Park for what? What is that? Does that have to do with the port or >> Well, it's something that's we heard from the city manager this week that
it's there's a an activ there's something happening. >> Yeah, I can expand on that a little bit if the board wants um there and I I don't want to waste too much of the board's time with it because it's still
in the exploratory phases. Um, if you're Is everyone familiar with the muck that is off the coast? >> The what? >> Muk. >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. If you if you pull up your Google Earth or your Google Maps and just look
at our coastline, the the the lagoon side of our coastline, and you can go when I sat through my first um meeting with the Indian River Lagoon folks that are working to mitigate the myriad of
problems that that water has. Um, I was floored because I did see and they were pointing it out and they had a lot of graphs and they were talking a lot of highlevel science and um, when they were showing the maps, I kind of tuned out
what they were saying after a little bit and I pulled up the maps on my own phone and just started going down the coastline. When you look at the satellite images of that side of the barrier island shorelines, you see this
weird dark line that follows all the way down goes all the way I mean literally all the way down to St. Lucy. That is muck. And one of the things that is a solution for
addressing that because manatees need seaggrass, seaggrass needs an envi a proper environment to grow. And in order for any of those things to happen, this muck has to go away in some capacity.
There's a lot of different methods to removing it, mitigating it, burying it. There's a lot. And one of the problems that they're having with these muck projects is it's very um
equipment and labor intensive. It's very hard to vacuum the bottom of a river. And it's very hard to uh one of their methods is capping it. If you're familiar with uh other um I don't know, I don't want to say toxic waste dump
strategies, but a lot of times you bury things to create a fresh layer. So there's it's very fluid. They're just doing exploratory stuff, but with the building of the aquarium, they just lost a staging ground. So, one of the
potential staging grounds is Manatee Sanctuary Park. It will take up u a portion of that if they are able to move forward with the project. But if they don't move forward with this project in some capacity, whether we're involved in
it or not, that muck will remain. It will get worse and we'll still keep getting the calls that there's no manatees because there's no grass and it's >> is that under the opaces of the St. John's River Authority?
>> Um it is done through um the soil group the save our Indian River Lagoon group and me uh employees of the county and they will be they've done um a couple meetings with staff. They're obviously working with the county level elected
officials as well. City of Cocoa Beach is actually currently in the middle of a project. If you look at uh the waters around their golf course area, >> it was really bad because that's what
the muck is coming from is the >> fertilizer and everything else. So, if you see uh like when you're looking at the map, if you see a very beautiful green grassy, lush property, go a little
offshore and see how dark it is right off the side of it because it's from it's from runoff. >> I'm surprised that it's not the St. John's River Authority because you can't do anything in the in the river without their >> Oh, well they will be very involved in
it, but in terms of the use of our property, those are conversations like the project needs to happen. They have the funding for the project. Um they have the support for the project. Right now they're at the part where they're figuring out the logistics because you
can't go vacuum. You can't run the sweeper if you can't park the sweeper. Right. Right. >> So there it's all very um preliminary, but in in my mind as a resident of Bvard County, you're not going to fix your
lagoon unless you fix your lagoon. And that means somebody's going to have to park it somewhere. So that that is being decided on um a much higher level than us. And we don't have all of the details yet because they haven't ironed out
everything, but in the preparatory phases of a project of this magnitude, they're looking at as many options and talking to as many other agencies as possible because the Save Our Indian River Lagoon, they don't own any land.
It's all municipal or private or other enterprises such as >> NASA and those type of properties. So, right now they're working out their locations, but Manatee Sanctuary Park is one of the locations they're looking at
for the purpose of equipment staging. And it won't take over the entire park, but it will be impactful to people that are trying to use it. But they're not going to dump the muck
in the park. >> No. No. It's only for the staging aspect of it. >> Expected potential start date and number of months. >> Um, >> just number of months. >> The the initial timeline that was presented to city staff at the last
meeting says that they're not going to really get anything started until 2027 2028. So there's there's going to be a lot of boxes for them to check based on not only St. John's requirements,
um FD requirements, and then of course our city council who's going to have to be the one to make the decision on whether or not they can utilize our property for that and to the degree. And of course, um, like Joyce mentioned,
man, that road's going to get busy if they start doing that. Um, but, uh, the good news is the other two things you mentioned are already in the works. So, muck project aside, because we don't have a whole lot of information on that,
they're doing a lot of research and they're crossing their tees and dotting their eyes. And um I believe they are on track for a presentation cuz it's great that they came and told us all this. Now it's time to talk to mom and dad. Um, so
they're going to have to make a presentation in front of council and I anticipate that if not at the February meeting, the March regular city council meeting and I have a feeling it will also break out into a workshop because it is a ton
>> of information and a lot of it's very impactful and it takes time. >> So >> So madam director, you're guessing 18 months possibly the start date. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, it's a good spend for the lights to put up then.
>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. They they'll have a nicely lighted parking lot by that time. >> And I had one more question. You said that because of the aquarium that can't be a staging. >> Yeah. >> Who owned I thought that was Bvard Zoo
and I thought they were really active in saving our lagoon. >> [clears throat] >> They have responsibilities to maintain their lease and they will be breaking ground on the aquarium before this is even scheduled to start because this also has to go through a lot of approval
processes on the state and St. John's River. And if you've ever tried to get anything permitted with St. John's River, you would have a better chance of getting something done faster through our federal level of Congress because
they are very particular about all of it. So, the the permitting process will probably be longer than their how much is this going to cost process. So, by the time they get going on it,
the aquarium will probably be underway. I believe they're planning on doing a ceremonial groundbreaking within the next three to four months. >> It's been very informative. We've learned so much from that the the items
that you brought up and then that we learned uh from Molly. Um are there any other questions for for Joyce? >> Joyce, thank you very much for answering those questions for me. Thank you. >> You're welcome. Thank you for your interest.
>> So, um do we uh now make a recommendation? >> Yep. You can you can make a motion to make a >> Is there [clears throat] a motion to make a recommendation that uh Joyce Downey join the culture leisure advisory
board? >> The motion. I I'll make a motion that she be recommended to city council. Yes, >> I'll second it. >> I'll second it. >> Mary Mascara, >> four. >> Betsy Ron, >> four. >> James Stoy,
>> four. >> Brad Pll >> Mary Lou Stant, >> four. The next item is appointing a board chairperson and vice chairperson. And um
first of all I guess uh according to the way the process goes um any member who does not wish to be considered um to let us know. everyone want to be considered?
>> I don't I wish not to be, but I don't think anybody would anyway. I'm too new. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Right. [laughter] Exactly. Jump right in
all the way. I'm not sure how to ask questions, let alone we're all still learning. Yeah. [laughter] >> Okay. So, uh now um all of us will members will mark our selection from the remaining members on
the ballot and then the board secretary will collect the ballots. >> [laughter] >> You want both of them at once? >> Um, we can do one and then the other. I think you'll repeat the process for >> Which one do you want? Uh, we'll do
chairperson. >> The chairperson. >> Okay. >> I was like, okay, we have two ballots. I wasn't sure what we were doing here. >> One one of the the options that was in Robert's rules
um was what I call the old version of the presidential election, which I don't remember when they disbanded, but in the early years of American history, We got the most votes was president. The person who got the second most was vice president.
>> We could have done it that way. [laughter] >> Presidential streets have more electoral votes. [laughter] >> But we will not have any hanging chads. We're pasting chance on this. >> Unless we go back to all papers. [laughter]
>> Samantha, >> she's too young for that one. >> Al Gore did start the internet. [laughter] >> Uhhuh. Um Brad, you have been awarded chairman.
>> Wow. Thank you guys. >> Our new chairman. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, we'll um Next step of that would be um candidate has acidated person has accepted
um so we'll need to have someone make a motion anyone but you um that makes a motion to accept the candidate and then we'll do the roll call again. >> I move that we accept the candidate. >> I second it. All right.
>> Mary Mascara, >> four. >> Betsy Ron, >> four. >> James Stoy, >> four. >> Brad Purll, >> of course. [laughter] >> Mary Luc and let's do it again for vice chair. >> Brad can't be both.
>> Oh, I can't vote. >> No, you [clears throat] can't be both. >> You can't be both. [laughter] So, we'll cross your name off. >> That would be a uh >> there's checks and balances here. [laughter] >> Then then you'll do a no kings day. >> Exactly.
>> I'm sorry. I'll be serious. >> We'll bring signs up here on the days. >> Let us know when you're ready. And this time, John will run around and get the [laughter] >> Now John's going to run around. >> Just grab their Now you have to do it because Molly's
hemmed in. >> Yeah. Yeah. Samantha and I are both trapped now. [snorts] [laughter] >> Jeez. >> You are now. >> There's your promotion. You can pass that gabble over if now. [laughter] >> Don't be too loud with it.
>> I need that. Thank you. This? >> No, this. >> Oh, that's right. This is what you bang it on. >> That's That's where you put your water, >> right? [laughter] >> Otherwise, you'll break it. >> Are you guys saying I start now? >> Yep.
>> Okay. [laughter] >> Are we going now? And Betsy Rock has been awarded vice chair. >> Wonderful. [applause] >> And I accept. >> Can I make a motion? >> Yeah, you can make a motion now. She >> I make a motion to accept Betsy as vice
chair. >> I I second it. >> Okay, we got Mary Lewis Stant. Okay. Brad PL >> four. >> James Toby. >> Four. >> Betsy Rock. >> Four. >> Mary Mascara.
>> Four. [laughter] >> Now it's official. Oh boy. Now we have to >> pardon. >> Yes. Okay, moving on.
>> I guess the next item on the agenda is approving the 2026 meeting schedule for uh the culture and leisure services advisory board. Uh we all got a list I believe. >> Yes,
>> I have no conflicts currently. Does anyone else have conflicts on that schedule? schedule. >> It's in the agenda materials. >> Yeah, >> it's on the back side of
>> it's every other month. >> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> The the only strange one is the fact that Thanksgiving would be an unpopular day for a meeting. So, that one we have to adjust every year. >> Always adjust. We always go to uh Western Sizzler and
have a turkey dinner. [laughter] >> As long as we publicly notice it, I think that might be a popular meeting. >> Will someone make a motion to approve the meeting dates as listed, please? >> I make I'll make a motion to approve the
2026 meeting schedule. >> I'll second it. Okay. Uh, Betsy Rock, >> four. >> Mary Mascara, four. >> James Stoie, >> was looking I left behind at home. >> Four. >> Brad PL >> four.
>> Mary Lucant. >> Four. >> Madame director, can you resend that schedule out to uh the board? I believe some members are not in possession of that. >> Possibly via email. >> Yep. We can send that out and we'll also
accompany that with the broader city one which includes all of the council dates. It's it looks very similar, but it also includes our holiday closures as well. It's super handy. Um >> Okay. >> Uh Samantha just updated that one. So, we'll we'll make sure everybody gets a
copy of that, a fresh copy of that. And for those that are new on the board, um that first the the first date in the column, that's the day that the agendas go out. By law, we're required to get the agenda and the packet to not only
our board members, but also to the public one week prior to the meeting. Um we do the best we can to get agenda items out before, especially if there's a lot to digest, but it's not always possible. But at the very very least you
will get it per code to the one week prior to the meeting. So >> I have a question um how does it get distributed to the public? >> Um for public for publicly advertised
meetings which is all of our meetings plus all of the other advisory board meetings planning and zoning special magistrate and city council. It is published to our website. It is published to social media. It goes out on Next Door as well, which is a
slightly different format, but still social media. It is required to be posted in front of our uh building. That's what those little boxes are out there that are full of everything. Um, and then for our board in particular,
uh, we include links to all of it in our weekly update. And we also post a little notice at our facilities so that the people that frequent our facilities like uh, Miss Joyce, Miss Well, Joyce Ward, I
forgot we had two Joycees here today. um so they know that we're having a meeting and this is a good place to come to voice concerns, ideas, opinions and all of that as residents. So >> any other questions board?
>> Then we'll continue. >> We have a discussion item. We're running about 15 minutes behind schedule. um review board discussion and history is related to the joint workshop topic
of third-party insurance providers. Uh madame director, is this a point where we ask questions or you give an uh give us an update? Uh how >> can you actually my this was my request of Molly?
>> Oh, okay. um when we talked about having the um board um meet with the city council um and they were going to prepare the agenda for the city council. I asked that we put this on our agenda because
of the new members here. Um, it's unfortunate Jenny's not here so that everybody was brought up to speed on where we were and it's been it's been over a a year's worth of time that we've kind of gone back and forth on this and
um and so um there's a lot of data here and a lot of information um that um I don't know if everybody remembers that was here for the whole last last year or especially the new
people uh would like to have more information on what we had discussed at some of those meetings. That was kind of why I thought it would be helpful so that we did sounded as if we knew what we were talking about when we meet the city council.
>> Great idea. Yeah. And and we've received many thanks since then because not only do we have new board members, we have brand new council members and some of them are more engaged in the recreation aspects, some are less engaged in the recreation aspects. So, they're getting
a a crash course in all of it. Um, and when I started putting together the timeline, I felt there was value in going all the way back >> to the beginning >> to the first time that these things were
mentioned in a public meeting because in February um, 2022, I was not the director of this department and I had nothing to do with the parks and recck side of it. So um for me it was good catchup to find out
where this idea came from. As a former employee of the leisure services department, I had heard um you know while sitting in a very tiny office my previous director um exploring the
silver sneakers opportunities because we had a lot of requests for that and this is long before the the community center ever existed. And then Nancy Hansen was never eligible. And he even tried to do a couple different like what if I start offering this, this, and this. And
they're like, well, you're still not a fitness center, so you're still not eligible for it. [snorts] So, a lot of the the the workings of this were laid before me. >> Um, >> I think Mary and I were the only ones here during all of this. We were on the
board when this all before the C5 was built. And so we we kind of have this history. >> Yeah. >> But it's still confusing. >> Yeah. It's still and and when you when you think of how fast andor slow government moves, our our
board only meets every every two months. Um city council does meet monthly and sometimes more than that with workshops and special meetings and emergencies and whatnot. But to to get everything through both boards and then actually
affect change, there's there's so many processes involved that I also wanted to make it clear via this timeline. um why it took so long to get a full year's worth of full fiscal year, a
proper fiscal year worth of data because when you change your your fee schedule, even if it's not mid fiscal year, now you just messed up your data a little bit and now you have a bunch of footnotes in your report saying, "Okay,
well then the prices changed this year starting this date." And um you probably noticed there was a big footnote in well there's many footnotes in the um stuff that was published for the upcoming meeting and I don't want to get too in
in the weeds with that but there was one area um where the price changed because we had to negotiate something mid year. So that now now we're back to okay well I only have half a fiscal year's worth of actual data. So, it took from August
2023 to January 2025 in order to have not only the the fiscal year's worth of data, but also to be caught up because these companies run one to two months behind. So, in order to have all of that money hit accounts,
we have to wait. And then at this this stage um the finance department is in the middle of our annual audit and they tend not to get their final numbers from you know the review of the audit until end of February, beginning of March. So
our finance director always tries to target um the February meeting because it makes life easier for him and his staff to just audits done. Let's present our data on to the next one because we immediately roll into the next budget
planning session. Like I'm already starting to make my list for next year. So, um having this timeline is and all the attachments. I'm sorry. I really try not to make 38 page agendas. Um, and I'm
also very sorry that the workshop one is 98 pages, but I promise all of it is relevant because not only um was did I need to get our members up to speed on what we were talking about. I wanted
city council and the public to know what you guys have been hashing out for two years and what's already the the ideas that have already been thrown out, the discussions that have already been had. That way hopefully we don't have to relive
everything and make it even longer. Um I and going through this I did note and and we may want to adapt this that there was uh something missing on the timeline that I
thought was somewhat important >> and that was at the July 2025 meeting. Um, there was a motion that passed for the fee schedules that you presented when you presented all of those
differential and the simple and the this and the that. And so we did we did make a motion to accept one of those and to pass it on to the city council which I'm and I think that was when it then the wheel stopped
>> because then it got to the the city manager and the city attorney and and then it all bogged down. But I thought that possibly that schedule that we did agree upon that we wanted to move forward with
>> should be noted um in here. So they knew that we had looked at these all >> uh with a fine tooth comb and had agreed upon what we thought might be the easiest to um implement and the fairest
to um to put forth for the community. And I think you I think you've got an excellent idea there because one of the things that I when I was typing this sometimes I type things knowing what I know, knowing what you
know, but not everybody knows what a differential fee schedule means. Um I take for granted sometimes the the the lingo. Um, so one of the things I did include in the larger packet was the agenda item for that so they can see the >> Well, I yeah, I saw the all
>> I just need structures, but I I I didn't couldn't even remember. I looked through back through my notes and then I looked at at the minutes and everything that which of these I mean you gave us in the in the workshop package all of them but
I don't remember which one it was that we >> you landed on that we passed >> and I can what I can do is um in preparation for that meeting I can pull the minutes from July because I believe it was there was simpl there was fully
differential simplified and streamlined. >> It was a simpl It was simplified. >> I believe it was the simplified, but there was also a little caveat there where we added >> added with the added um >> like all access pass I think it was.
>> So that's what I'll that's what I'll have in preparation for that. Okay. Um and then the other um document that we were able to get together um I gave you guys all a copy of it and we will
provide counsel with it as well. And in my big list of >> is that the estimated insurance provider compensation one? >> Um I think what you're referring to >> it's the it's the revenue report.
>> Oh, she's putting it up there. Yeah, you got a separate page that was just our revenues. >> Item two, attachment one. There is the fully differentiated structure a >> right and there's but then there's
there's a lot of them in there. Yes. >> Yeah. And I I went back through our notes and I couldn't remember because we looked at all of these and spoke talked about them and then I saw Joel made a motion and it was approved of which one
to pass on and I I wrote down that it was a simplified one but I don't know if it was A or B with the full act with the all access pass added. So, um, that's where I missed which one
we had agreed upon. [laughter] >> So, oh, I made a note to to have those printed and prepared. Um, but the other the other document that they'll be provided with looks like this. We put one in front of you. These are the preliminary. Um, like I said, they're
still going through the audits. Um, one of the documents that's provided in one of these agendas, I'm starting to lose track. [laughter] Um, is the on andm for each of the
facilities. That is not a comprehensive list of the revenues because not all of our revenues are tied to a facility. So, this is the comprehensive revenues for the entire department because some things aren't tied to a
building. >> Yeah, I had asked Molly cuz I was looking back through the prior budgets um to see what the actual revenue was and I saw that they hadn't finished the audit. So, we didn't have the 2425
um anything but the original budgeted amount. So I asked her could we get just around you know a close number on like did we hit our budget or did we not hit our budgeted amount for the revenue and according to this we we did so
[clears throat] that was good >> according to this we exceeded it by 45,000 right am I reading that correctly >> no I I was just looking at at the line item that says daily fees and membership for this mainly for the C5 that's the 347300
100 line item. >> Okay. >> And it's with the budgeted amount was 100,000 and we made 108. >> That's the C5. >> That's the C5. That that line item is for the daily fees and memberships for
the C5. And Nancy Hansen's broken out separately above that. That's the second one line there >> because I just felt that, you know, the council is going to want to know uh especially when we go move forward
with this nice comparison that Molly put together on the compensation that was possibly, you know, could be recovered. Let's put it that way. how that's going to impact the budgeted
>> amount or the revenue amount. So, um, and you know, have we been at least how we have we've been doing and like you said, it's hard because we haven't had good, uh, full years of revenue, >> right?
>> So, this is this [clears throat] is good information that I'm sure that they'll be wanting to know. >> Yeah. And then when we go into this upcoming budget year, obviously um the PAL program went away um in a large
capacity. We're ref >> um the police athletic league. >> Um where I grew up, it was mostly athletic things. I wasn't familiar with the secondary layer of the Nationwide
Police Athletic League where they focus on the they try to target the kids that aren't necessarily athletes and it's more leadership, community stewardship, volunteerism, that kind of thing. Um, and we had good participation in it for
a long time, but when the uh lady that ran it for many, many years retired, she she was done. She had she had given so much for so many years. It was time for her to to to focus on her new grandbabies and spend time with her
family. But in doing that that their main event was our um reindeer run. The reindeer run had been going on for 30 years. And um it had changed incarnations a couple times. And I believe I don't know is Amy here? No,
Amy's not here. She's back in the audio vision back. Um, prior to me coming on with the city, Amy actually was working for the sheriff's department at the time, which is why she was involved with it. Um, the
reindeer run shifted from just a general fundraising type of activity to specifically raising funds for PAL. And that was the city's give and take with the sheriff's office. But when the sheriff's office abandoned the program and said, you know, we're
we're doing away with this. Um the previous leisure services director and the city manager decided to try to keep it afloat based just, you know, internally run instead of with a partner agency. But you really can't have a police athletic
league if you don't have police. and our partners with um uh city of Cocoa Beach when the new city manager came on board. Um he touched base with them because obviously he's a retired police chief so
he's very familiar with PAL programs. Um in speaking with Cocoa Beach, they were no longer able to be that police backing agency. So, um, we're regrouping the program, but the revenues
anticipated for that will be certainly amended in the coming year because this is not a realistic number for what we will be doing going forward. And I would rather bid low and get more than bid
high and come in under. Does the reindeer run then now just going into the just the regular general >> event? >> Yes. Yep. For for for now at least. >> For now. >> Okay. Because I know we still have it. So I think >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We we we still did it. Um we
operated in the green this year. Um we scaled back on a lot of things. Um we got some good feedback. We had a lot of new runners this year and um we learned a lot of lessons. every time you host an event, even if you've done it 30 times,
31 you learn something you didn't learn at 29 and 30. So, um I don't foresee the reindeer run going away anytime soon, but we will definitely be taking a very hard look at
what type of expectations we have for that because we no longer have that one full-time employee. Well, she wasn't full-time, but she was employed year round to operate the PAL program. And because PAL was supported wholly by that
reindeer run event, um that was her only job was really fundraising, coordinating that event, and getting the kids to and from activities and mentoring them themselves. So, that position is gone, and we're just going to have to look at
how we can build that event. um maintain our revenues in terms of that and and where that goes looking forward. >> Can you explain what the to us the what the wreck sponsorships are that that's a
interesting uh you know budgeted amount here. Um, rec sponsorships has been one of those accounts. When I first started, we would occasionally, we didn't do a lot of
sponsorships because our city manager at the time, Mr. Green, was not of that mindset. There's two kind of mindsets when it comes to sponsorships, engagement, and and whatnot. There's the people that are like, "Absolutely, everybody will take everybody's
sponsorships." And then there's other people that are like, I don't want to put my hand out because they're going to expect something. And Mr. Green was of the I'm not putting my hand out. We'll figure out how to pay for this kind of thing. Um, so we always had the recreation
sponsorships line item in there. And prior to the roughly current administration, that was typically for situations where people wanted to donate money to help a
local kid go to camp. And that's basically all it was. So, you don't want to anticipate a huge amount of donations when you don't know what these donations are going to be for. [snorts] And so now we have [clears throat] multiple
activities and events that actually solicit sponsorships, the paddle battle and reindeer run, but we still have the occasional person that'll come in and say, "Hey, I want to pay for two to three weeks of some child's summer camp." And so that one I'm never going
to bank a whole bunch of money into it, but it'll usually come in higher than what I budgeted because I can't I never want to count on volunteers to show up for something if that it's a critical need. And I also don't want to count on
donations because anything can happen and you could lose that donor. They might become financially unstable. They might leave the area. I'm not going to bank on something every year if I don't know it to be true. >> Thanks for that explanation.
>> I have a question. It [clears throat] sounds like all the information's been gathered and the recommendation is ready to be made basically to council during the workshop kind of thing. No. All right. So that's one thing. Uh the
second one is in this uh summary report that you handed out. So it says normal and then abnormal is in parentheses. [clears throat] So I mean >> abnormal would mean negative.
>> Boss. >> Yeah. Well, I see some losses that aren't in parentheses. >> Not not losses as in not making the mark, right? >> But oh >> having a negative balance. >> Oh
>> yes. Like, so if instead of >> zero, it was >> zero, it was I lost $4,000 on [clears throat] something, oh, >> there'd be a much bigger conversation happening. >> All right. >> Um, but abnormal is is not so much a
shortfall, it's a legitimate money is lost. >> Okay. And then, um, independent contractor fees. >> Um, way up. Mhm. >> Didn't we talk about that? Did I miss why that is? >> We have more instructors
>> classes. That's the >> And that's another thing that we really don't have a lot of control over. >> So, hiring instructors or >> we don't hire anybody. These are people that run their own businesses and they are paid directly by their students >> and then they pay a portion to the city.
>> Yeah. >> Oh, so we don't budget it. I I budget that I know I'm going to make some money, but if, god forbid, one of our instructors hurt themselves or died tomorrow, were out everything that they would bring in.
>> Okay. All right. >> That's a hard one because if all of a sudden some class takes off or you they you have instructors willing to provide more classes and you have space, >> right? >> Uh I mean that's been a great thing this year obviously. Yeah, it's it was a very
good year for that. But there's been years where uh and and when you have physical activity classes, sometimes the instructors hurt themselves. >> Um and we had one year where one of our most popular instructors had a baby. She
was not zumbaing for over a year, [laughter] reasonably so. And so that revenue wasn't coming in. >> Okay. So, I I am very conservative when it comes to my budgeting and that's why
is if there's something that I can't nail down and be confident on it, I don't make bets that I lose. >> Okay. And so, the purpose of the meeting with the board to discuss is
your overall budget or raising fees or anything in particular? You >> mean with the council? with the council. >> It's specifically for the insurance programs. Um, and the reason that that that is connected to the larger picture
is because if we're going to keep keep collecting from these third party contracted people, we need not only council but the public to see that it's a much broader conversation than just
one little building and what people pay. So, >> okay. and the council will need to make decisions on how they want to approach the situation. So the purpose of the joint workshop is to eliminate
we'll call it a board phone tag of you guys having lengthy conversations, doing a ton of research, me doing that. We send something to council and they come back and they're like, "Well, we don't like any of those ideas. What were you thinking?" This is the opportunity for
both boards to sit down in a legal in the sunshine public publicly advertised meeting where people can come up and make comments that all of you can hear and that way they can provide some direction on what they're looking for from you
and sorry >> no go ahead. Well, because then the question becomes if we raise the fee or we start charging extra for the third-party payments. In other words, uh
my insurance pays for my membership. >> And so there's discussion on whether or not I would have to supplement that to be a member. Well, I think there's [clears throat] multiple >> options >> things on the on the table at this point if I if I kind of,
>> you know, >> okay, >> that they really we could be presented to the board to the council that um I, you know, as you kind of dig through this, you might find, but one is that if we keep the insurance programs, was it
not that they would have to change some um code >> somewhat? some statute or some uh something or other that um >> yes >> there was something that they that a legal thing.
>> Yes. Um the city code says that in order for the city to charge a user fee for a facility that fee must be set set by council. Meaning if you come to me and say hey
I've got this this and this can I get a discount? Sorry I can't. This is a fee set by council. One of the things that council was not aware of when they gave the original directive in 2022 to accept these things was the notion
that these companies were not paying us dollar for dollar what the fee schedule was. So, they need to update the resolution to say something like if they wanted to com to to keep all of these companies and to
accept them at the rates that they're offering because they say they're negotiable. Not really. >> Yeah. >> Not really at all. >> Yeah. We we don't have that power. >> Yeah. So, >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, go ahead. As I remember in
April or July, we were talking about because we couldn't change what the uh insure providers were going to pay that we would change perhaps what it covers because like it was brought up that a
lot of people felt that they also had access to all the the court in uh the C5 and the thing was to distinguish those so that the the insurance would only be paying for the exercise part of it and
that people would have to pay extra for use of the court. >> And that was one of the questions I thought was is that going to be the type of thing that would come up before the >> this is city council or are we just looking at the numbers basically?
>> I don't know. I think that's that's a biggie because you'd be >> finding a way to get more revenue. Well, they'd still have to agree to change that because now they still have to um say that yes, we are going to allow this discrepancy in pricing between those
who, you know, use the upstairs, let's just say, or the the court. So, that still would have to go into place unless they decided, let's just scrap all of this insurance stuff. They which is an option they could do. They could just say, "We're going to
just not take any of that insurance. We're losing a lot of money taking the insurance. We have to change all this because it's not equitable. It's a hassle for staff. Let's just forget about it." >> And we have to reprogram the computers
if we separate the wait room from >> Well, they'll have to change it anytime you change your schedule. any anytime we change our fees or program formatting >> and you have to really have someone out there to make sure that people don't violate their >> we losing money. Um
>> but the thing is if we don't accept the insurance you're going to have a lot of unhappy people. >> Correct. >> So >> well that Oh sorry all my questions have led up to this last question that I haven't asked yet. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Do we have because I know from my gym
that >> he can't >> What is your gym? >> Oh, Cocoa Beach. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um that he cannot bill the insurance company unless I show up a certain number of times. Is that everybody's understanding?
>> Oh, that's not true. >> That's that's not what our agreements are. And I I find it a little maybe he might not understand because these are literally boilerplate. They do not adjust for anything. They just make you think that you're part of this
negotiation process and you're not. >> Okay. >> Um >> so people can um not use the gym, but um we can still get paid if we send the bill. >> No, we don't we don't get compensated unless you show up. And every single
month for all three of these companies, we have a staff member that has to send those reports to these companies and then they send us a check. >> Okay? >> Now, that said, all of these companies have a couple things in common. And one of those
things is they have a maximum payout every month. That varies from company to company, but they're only going to pay if you go to the gym 10 times, that's what they'll pay. If you come back on an 11th time within a given month, we don't
get paid for that. >> Okay. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. They have a max >> they have a per visit and a maximum payout. >> I have a few questions. Um, [clears throat] one about the
payment. You said it's a 60-day lag when we get a check. Is that correct? >> Depending upon the company. >> Okay. Do we offer terms to those companies? >> Terms. >> Yeah. >> It's a one year >> 2% 30 days. >> No.
>> No, you can't do that. >> How come you can't do that? >> It's in their contract. >> Well, it's everything's negotiable. >> Well, no, it's not. You have to read their contracts. You have to We had the contracts. Maybe that was probably before you started. And so we looked at all the contracts and the
>> and um and the and like Molly said because part of it was well why can't we re renegotiate better fee schedule on this? >> I remember that. >> Yeah. >> But I don't think terms ever came up. Uh because I think the city would rather
get their money quicker than later and give up 2% for an example. >> But we're not getting much from for this program. these programs. Anyway, you know, >> another question [snorts] at the workshop, if there's another alternative,
can we bring that up at that workshop? >> Absolutely. That's what the workshop is for is for ideas and everything. >> Thank you. everything like that because um [clears throat] council is going to be and this is just my
feeling on it 100page um and I feel so bad I killed so many trees with this. Please don't print this. Um, council's going to be very amazed in my
opinion by the amount of work that this board and staff has done trying to sort through this. There is a ton of material and there are 600 people that are here in the city, most of which are seniors, most of which are residents that are
going to be impacted one way or another by whatever decision happens. So, this isn't something that should be taken lightly, and it's one of those situations where when the facility was built, I don't
know that the staff at the time knew what they were getting into. And I definitely think that what we were getting into was communicated effectively to the leadership at that
time. And now everyone's gone to include city leadership, city manager, and the director of this department at that time. Everyone's gone. And now we actually now we've bought the car. We've got to figure out how to keep it running
because >> okay, I have >> you don't know until you get into it what something costs. >> A few more questions and going through your 95 pages. >> Okay. But it's not really that. It's just the agenda that you sent. And there
and I just need ballpark numbers, please. >> How many total registered members do we have at the C5? >> Is it about 600? >> I mean just total not not from the [clears throat] these programs, but just
total >> total total. >> I would have to look that up for you and provide the data because just in these programs alone, we have 585 of these three. >> All right. So, okay, that was another question. How many total third party members? We have 600.
>> About 600. >> Okay. >> And mind you, these change by the day. One of the things that I really tried to drive home with council is that if I decide to pause my membership tomorrow because I twisted my ankle, my number comes off that list.
>> Understood. Shooting at a moving target. A on average we have about 600 third-party insurance members at the C5. Okay. >> Uh I still would like to know how many total registered members we have. >> That I can provide.
>> How many total resident members do we have? >> I can provide that. >> And how many total out of town members do we have? Because when I look at your spreadsheets here, the one year it I'm a little
confused because it looks like one week per month that we took the data from. >> Okay. >> And I look at whatever this provider is. Uh we have resident at 295 uh total visits uh non-resident 102
739 total visits for a senior and a senior non-resident 268. So I I understand that's an average or or a >> Well, these are actual check-in numbers. >> They what? Actual check-in numbers for that week. >> Mhm.
>> One week per month that you did. Is that correct? Not the full month. No, I didn't do the full month. >> Okay. Um because it was >> tremendous. >> You would have had 200 pages. >> Yeah. No, understood. [laughter] Understood. >> And I also made it a point to when I did the math to take the first full week, so
no Monday that we were closed, no voting day that we were closed. And I also took into account how many days a year on average we are closed. >> So that we broke it down. >> Sure. No, that's how open we were. Um I
am not questioning any numbers. I just need to get wrap my mind about how many people use the facility. >> I can provide those numbers. We provide that number every year also in the state of the city which I'm currently working on as well.
>> And so you we already did the state of the city, correct? >> I'm in the middle of it. >> Oh, >> I had to stop the presses. >> Did we do last year's? >> Yes, >> that was in there. >> Why don't you give me last year's? >> Don't do any more work. Just give me that. >> They're going to make me finish the state of the city.
>> All right. Well, it's close enough for government work. [laughter] >> Well, that's what I I was wondering. >> Go ahead. Go ahead. >> Now, one thing we do not account for. >> Is people who go to the independent
contractors. I go twice a week. I don't sign in anywhere. I'm a resident. You mean [clears throat] you mean to class? Class. >> Your instructor reports that to Samantha every month. >> Okay. So that's the book that I signed
there. >> Yeah. >> But you know that's because then you don't require people to have to have a membership to take a class. >> Correct. And that was a that was something we definitely did not want to
make people do because that was never that was never the the case even at Nancy Hansen or anything. Right. >> So that we wanted to continue that and and that was part of the reason >> when we were designing the C5 to set it
up such that they didn't have to go past the registration desk. you can go right into the classroom without you know >> okay >> and pay the instructor directly >> correct >> and then trust that the instructor turns in all the people and the money and the
>> or your contract is canled [snorts] >> okay you keep going because you're asking a lot of the ones that I want to hear >> now where on this uh GL list I see that we have the fees for the independent contractor when you say fees is that the
money generated that 25%. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> All right. You done? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Sorry. Because I was I wondered like don't you have family memberships and
Okay. No. And then if um a man and a woman are married and they're seniors, >> um they each you bill them separately to the um insurance company. >> Yes. >> Okay. And then so I was wondering
what percentage of people in that are members are this free lunch. It sounds like the majority. >> Well, that's that's the number I have to get the total number of people of members.
>> 600 people a member of the third party insurance program. >> I don't know how many others there are. We don't we don't have the total >> total total >> total total. We don't know if it's 7,000 people. >> Separated it it out. We have all the total check-ins
and then >> only for insurance >> only for insurance >> only for the insurance companies. >> Okay. Because what I'm thinking is >> well here's an example. Now you did give us at one time this was for fiscal year 2324.
Uh if somebody wants to >> I say I have provided those numbers in the past and it's probably still pretty close. >> There were 133 uh annual memberships for the C5. So that that's non insurance people obviously
and there were 157 monthlies but we don't know how many people that was. That was just that 157 monthly memberships were were purchased >> for what period >> for the year. So I could have purchased
12 or I could have purchased >> or you could or you could have purchased six every other >> you know whenever you come. So all we have here or the numbers that we have from 23 24 that Molly had provided um was that was all we had. What we didn't
have is um so those because we were looking at how many people really use the um the monthly and the annual fees, you know, >> so and how does that impact so you know that was uh that's u
90 uh pe 290 memberships purchased whether it be annual or monthly. Not people but not the daily checks. >> Annual is a very valid number. Yes.
>> Uh the monthly number is >> not at all. >> No. >> So >> because that doesn't tell you if you join for a month. It doesn't tell you how many people. >> Well, >> no. It tells you it's one person. Like if if I want to join the C5, I'm going
to go in there February 1st and say, "Here's my $35, right? I'm going to enjoy the C5 for the month of February where I whether I use it for one day or 28 days, >> right? >> All of a sudden I get relocated. I know that. Then I come back in the month of
April. I want another monthly. >> Right. >> Okay. They don't track by the name. I believe they track by the purchase. Is that correct? >> Yes. It has to be an they call it an active membership because you can >> active membership
>> means means you're means you're paid >> means you're paid >> by purchase. It's not by name. >> Like if you walk in and it makes the uh-uh sound instead of the happy little ding, then we know that you need to pay for your membership.
>> Now, is there a way on the daily people, they didn't purchase a membership and they don't have insurance? I just came and wanted to just use it for the day and pay the daily rate. >> We track that. >> You track that. But do you track that by
person or do you just track that as a daily? >> By transaction. >> By transaction. >> Okay. So, so there again we're not really finding out that you know you have 200 people who come or you have 200
bodies who are interested in coming. I mean >> versus 200 times that 20 people came, you know, you know what I'm saying? So what we're kind of looking for is how many bodies
use the C5 in any way. Now, we do have that for the Yes. for the annual and for the the sponsorships. We use that in the daily reports too because I any anytime a transaction happens >> but but you just don't know if I can't
if a certain body is showing up. >> Oh, I can tell you how many times Mr. Wrong has visited >> since we opened. >> Well, that's >> so we can track it by body. >> You You can. Okay. You have all those people's names. >> I have their names, birth dates,
addresses. [laughter] >> What you want, right? >> Okay. I wasn't sure. And that was exactly what I said. >> We we can we can track it down. >> You will kill me with data in doing that because it is incredibly timeconsuming to go to individual members
>> and find out how many times madam director >> I can provide daily check-ins all day long. >> Over invent the wheel on that. Okay. I mean we're we're getting way too deep in the weeds. Um,
>> yeah, go ahead. >> Okay. I I'm curious like I I I would think memberships uh whether they were monthly or I I guess daily.
What I'm curious of is the number of people in the system that show as free. I'll call it free. You can call it insurance, right? Um, and >> 585 that's 600, right? >> We know 600. 600.
>> Okay. >> And then how many people we build the insurance company for. Um, in other words, to pinpoint exactly where the shortfall is. I think we're the short
example. >> Okay. >> The shortfall is >> hang on a minute. It's $ five dollar a day to use it on a daily basis, right? Whatever that magic number is, right? >> I go in there on a daily basis and I'm going to show my silver sneakers card. Right.
>> Okay. So, I go in for free, right? >> Okay. However, silver sneakers will pay the city $1, right? >> And they'll get that dollar 60 days later. Right. >> Okay. And that's and that's the $4 is the shortfall that we're talking about.
>> I get that. >> Okay. And that's her shortfall. >> But I'm just so So what? So what are you asking? >> Well, in my mind, we have um let's just say we have a hundred people show up a
month. >> Okay. Not one time, but they're members. We have 100 paying members or and I'd like to know how many people are not or paying or we're only paying a dollar and
how many people the insurance company is paying us. Is anybody ever reconciling the people who are in our system monthly? >> Monthly because you >> the usage of the >> if you if you have silver sneakers, right? You are registered in our system
as a Silver Sneakers membership. We never touch your money. >> We never do anything except for at the end of the month. We have a list of all the Silver Sneakers and all the other people that checked in by name and their membership number via Silver Sneakers
because they have like a 16-digit membership number that's assigned to each of their customers, >> right? That report with all of those individual people and all of their names, their date that they checked in, all of that is downloaded and sent to
the Silver Sneakers Corporation and they send us a check based on the individuals because if if Mary Smith goes 12 times, we only get paid >> for the 10, >> right? And all I'm saying is, do we know
how much we would be making if we just charged them the regular >> fee? That's what this >> you got that figured out. >> And that that was provided in the large agenda packet for the workshop. >> Okay. >> Because that's that's >> and it's significant. >> Well, it shows that what we're losing if
they if we got rid of the insurance program, that's what this is, and people just paid the regular rate, >> right? You know, >> we let everybody do it. Even if you're a snowbird, you can come and see. >> We can't control that. >> You can't control that. And you can't
control where they live. >> If a if a snowbird from Michigan came down, I couldn't say, "Sorry, it the silver sneakers program is for residents only. >> We're not allowed to." See, and that's part of the problem, too, because >> we're saying that Cocoa Beach,
>> if you are not using insurance and you live in Cocoa Beach and you want to use the C5, you're paying the non-resident rate, >> right? >> But if you're in Silver Sneakers, we can't differentiate based on resident or non-resident. Everybody gets the same.
And so we actually are saying that the amount of revenue lost by having the insurance programs over just saying forget it. We're just going to make everybody the same and they pay as is. We're we're losing about 40 to $50,000 a
year on that. >> That's what I thought. I thought about 43. Yeah. >> Yeah. It depends. It kind of that you can kind of rejigger the numbers, but so that's that's significant money, you know, >> net loss >> because when you have all these uh gains
over here that were unanticipated, >> I'm just wondering if um you know what I mean, what it nets out as a loss over the whole >> looking at what's your budget expenses. you know, the C5 is very expensive to
run and so obviously your revenue is not going to take care of the expenses. So $50,000 as a I I'm just talking from I know how the council is going to look at it saying $50,000 is not any small amount
of money to not have. And um so we've kind of we've kind of gone through this a lot and even to the point of saying well the resident people seniors who are mo
mainly impacted by this insurance thing >> right >> um are not going to be happy. So even if you were to nyx the insurance >> and they quit. No, I'm saying if you were to NYX the insurance, you could do
it and then say and we will decrease the senior resident rate >> because we can you could do that for the seniors residents in Cape Canaveral. >> All right. Why >> so you you could you know you can try to help make it a little bit more palatable
I guess is one of the things. the 600 people, what happens if they all say, "Well, if you don't take my insurance, I'm going down the street where they do." And how much money would we lose? And what would we net loss on that? >> Well, we're only receiving right now,
the actual amount that we receive is is uh is 30 thou is about $33,000, $34,000. Um, so but I but you can't believe that all of those 600 people wouldn't still come,
>> right? You don't know that. >> Just a quick question. Why do you go to Cocoa Beach, Jim, and not the C5? >> Um because um >> take the silver sneaker thingy. >> Yeah, it's it's bigger. There's more to
choose from. The gym is kind of smaller here and than Cocoa Beach. >> When you say the gym, are you referring to the weight room area? Are you referring to where the basketball courts are, the running track?
>> I need a little more specific. I I And the reason I'm not picking I I want to know why people do not go to the C5. Well, actually, um, another reason was when it first opened, I went there and
there were too many young kids and, um, that just I don't want to work out with a bunch of high schoolers that are, you know, picking their nose and using the machines and this and that, whatever. And so I the age group of Cocoa Beach is
more appeal. I would be at Pro Health at the um gym on Merit Island above all of them. Yeah. And I like Vieiraa, but I'm not driving 45 minutes to the darn gym. So, yeah, it's I guess more of
demographic uh was for me and but I wasn't working out and I've been threatening to go over there at 10:00 in the morning when I work out now. Used to be when I was working, you know, I'd go and kids were, you know, it was just I don't know, whatever. And there's music.
Um, uh, there's no music at this gym, is there? There wasn't when I was there. I like the music. And >> we would encourage headphones. You're never going to make everybody happy with music. And that's the last email I want to deal with. >> I plan to do at Cocoa Beach. >> That's also a private, not a government
agency. [clears throat] >> What? Cocoa Beach. >> Private. Private, >> but they take the insurance. >> Anybody can take the I mean, I go to Cocoa Beach, too. >> Yeah. >> But why do I go? because they don't offer what I want here. You know, they don't offer cycle classes. They don't
offer >> included in the yoga classes and a lot of the other classes aren't included. And that's what I like. >> But Vieiera charges extra. Did you know that they um you you can use your silver sneakers, but even if you're a member,
you have to pay extra for like the TRX and all that stuff. >> Well, same with here. If you wanted to take the Zumba class, >> it's five bucks. >> You have to you have to pay for >> I like an instructor, so I stay because I really like the Zumba instructor. >> Yeah. >> All right. All right. Excuse me, guys.
[laughter] >> So, Molly, excuse me, madam director, Madam Mr. >> Molly, [laughter] >> Mr. Mate, >> deputy director. So the real purpose of this [clears throat] upcoming workshop
is to come up with a simplified billing, lack of a better term, a fee structure for the C5 building for the citizens and non-residents of Cape
Canaveral that satisfies everyone's needs and also minimizes the revenue the potential revenue gap. Is that correct? That's the goal of this upcoming meeting. >> It is >> what we have to give them.
>> It is the secondary goal. >> Yes. The first goal of this is for council to tell you where their heads are regarding all of this because the last thing that I would want is to spend any more time of this board's
discussion on coming up with a solution or and a recommendation to council for council to come back and say and no back to the drawing board. So, this is an opportunity. The purpose of this meeting is to let them know what we've been
talking about. Let them know that there's actionable items for them to do regardless of which way. And to give this board the clear direction on what the fee schedule they have in mind
and what the objectives for revenues, etc., they have in mind. So you guys can work with me and produce something that is palatable to them. >> Can can you kind of give a um because I was just looking at the agenda package
for the for this. How does that usually work with the council? I mean they obviously kind of run it and I I mean I don't know how much they're up to speed or are we there to answer questions or how how does it work? >> The whole thing. >> There's no real agenda. So that's why
it's kind of as much as we have. >> Well, it's it's very much um this is only the second joint workshop that's ever happened in the history of since I've been here. >> Oh, yay. >> So, and uh good newsish maybe everybody that did that other one is no longer
here. So, [laughter] um so we're not reinventing the wheel. Um it will be a discussion type. There will be no one up at this dis. It will be done in this room. The room will be arranged so that everyone's on the same level and looking at each other and it's
very conversationbased. I'm probably going to do a lot of talking at the beginning just to recap everything to make sure that they read all 100 pages of that. >> Um, >> so you're going to start with 15 minutes
of recapping 100 pages to bring to make sure they all know what we're what they need to discuss to us. Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah, there there will be an introductory because obviously we're hoping that members of the public and people that have stock our our
stakeholders will come and throw out some ideas so both parties hear them. Because with that, I'm hoping for some marching orders that aren't going to get kicked back because we all talked about
this. Let's move forward with it because how long this is taking um >> too long the years. >> Well, we also have um proposed fees for the Cape Center that I need like tomorrow,
but one of the things that needs to happen and this is at the direction of the city attorney is Molly, stop it with these resolutions. Bring me an entire fee schedule. So getting the entire fee schedule onto a single resolution,
this city's never had that in a sense. And the only time it really did have it, it's because they only had one building and they only did four things there. That was it. So we are all grown up now with three different facilities. We need
to have this big beautiful spreadsheet like Cocoa Beach does. If you've seen Cocoa Beaches, that is every bit of an 11 by17 and 10point font of every fee they have because they have a golf course, they have a pool, they have an
abundance of different facilities and services that their leisure services department provides. And we're not quite there. Please don't buy a golf course for me. Um, please. Um, but we need to
get to the point where we have one big confined combined fee schedule. It's discussed every couple years, not every 15. And it's passed to keep up with whatever um financial trends, demographic trends, and everything else
that the the city needs to operate smoothly. So, we're just it's it's growing pains at this point. >> And our target date should be October 1st, the beginning of the next fiscal year. Correct. >> God willing, >> if I printed out all these 90 pages, if
I could get the answer from my questions, you just refer me to the >> We can print it out for you. >> Okay. Uh because um did you say that if I have silver sneakers, I can play um raetball for free?
>> Not ra >> or pickle ball. >> Yes. For now at C5. Not outside. >> Oh, okay. Inside the building. >> Yes. >> Oh, yes. >> Oh, >> you have no access to the Nancy Hansen because the Nancy Hansen is not a qualified facility.
>> Okay. >> For Silver Sneakers. >> Okay. Okay. And then finally, um this is like a section of the budget. And so at the end of the day, does that
$50,000 turn your whole budget negative at the end of the year? that loss. >> Okay. >> No, revenues and expenditures are totally different. And you'll never find a park and wreck agency that pays for itself. >> You
>> Oh, okay. >> What was that last thing you said, M director? >> You'll never find a park and wreck agency on a municipal or state level that 100% pays for itself in revenues. >> Okay. >> Should be our goal. >> Okay. But we're just going after the
biggest gash in the >> Let's do that. >> The 50,000 is the biggest >> on par or better with all national and state level recreation agencies. >> So I just wondered how this uh the rec center got picked.
>> Well, how this how did this get started? It it was mainly because >> the facilities are being used the C5 is used a lot by Cocoa Beach people. >> Oh. But yet they
pay the same as Cape Canaveral people >> because of the silver because of those programs. >> And there's no way we can make the Cocoa Beach pay more because that's not the way the programs work. And so we're like, you know, our whole concept was to
give the taxpayers a break in using the C5 and it's kind of now become negated by the insurance programs. >> Huh. Historically speaking, if you look at every fee structure that's been passed since the inception of the recreation
department in the 1970s, there is always been a strong distinguishing factor between resident and non-resident, senior and non senior. At one time they even differentiated
between times of day. >> I do not recommend doing that again. Not at all. >> So that's kind of how it started because we started to realize how many people were using the C5 that are coming from
Cocoa Beach. >> Okay. I guess because the pool does in Cocoa Beach doesn't um use the insurance, they can charge outsiders twice as much as Cocoa Beach
residents. >> Yes. >> Oh my goodness. So if we didn't use insurance, we could charge Cocoa Beach residents. >> Well, they would just fall under the non-resident rate. >> Oh, okay. Oh, okay. >> Which exists for those who don't have insurance.
>> Good night. Could we make it any more complicated for us? >> Wait till you dig into that packet. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Just our current fee schedule alone looks like u something out of I don't know [clears throat] what. >> Okay.
But this board has worked really hard to to help streamline that. And I'm I'm anxious to see um council look at the same things that this board looked at. And I have a
feeling that some of the same conclusions are going to be drawn. And that's what the hope of this workshop is is so that everybody's on the page same page with where we've been, where we're going, and how we're going to get there. I hope they read it and they don't look like deer in the headlights or they're
going to have hours of questions. >> It starts at 4, >> right? And and the city manager um before any type of obviously he has an open door policy, but before meetings, the city manager makes it a point to do
one-on- ones with as many members as available to air out the questions that would be time wasters in a larger meeting. So that and he's new, too. So I'll be sitting through those just to make sure
that the Oh, yes. And this happened. Oh, and this happened. And all right. Yeah, here's this. So we we do try to make the meetings as efficient as possible. So as a new member, if you're you ever have questions about anything, you can reach
out to John and myself or Samantha in advance and we'll get you on the calendar so you can come in and ask questions as well. I I need to be quiet and listen, >> but I don't want to be deaf, dumb, and blind, >> right? Yeah. There's so Well, there's so much information sometimes.
>> They have a very good open door. >> Okay. >> They have a very good open door policy. >> Yeah. >> Well, >> I even meet you at the parks for me. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I'll let you know. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Any other comments,
concerns, questions? Go Seahawks. >> It is 7:17. I make a motion that we close this meeting. >> I second that. >> Um, I don't really have any major staff
updates. Um, >> yeah, I know. Sorry. You've got uh two little QR codes in front of you. Um one of those is the um city manager. It is time for his
sixmonth review and he has requested a 360 degree review. For those that know what that means or don't know what that means, that means uh you get input on how well you do your job from literally everyone, good or bad. So, um, kudos to
him for saying, "Hey, make this hurt." Um, so he wants not only not only do we as his, uh, direct reports get to answer, but all of my direct reports get to answer and all of the residents and city council respond as well. So,
there's a QR code for that. And then Amy gave us one more um, and I don't remember what it is, but you've got it in front of you. Yes. Um, we are a member of an organization called Florida League of Cities. It's a loose-nit
federation of a bunch of municipalities. And it's uh maybe maybe a lobbying kind of organization when cities are all facing things like Airbnbs and all of these other, you know, hot topics in communities. The Florida League of
Cities um acts as a lobbying agent to get people talking, to get people organized, to put people in touch with Tallahassee and so forth. So, uh they put out a lot of publications and one of them is their annual report and that
photo is been submitted to be on the cover. So, >> you're in fourth place, but we're number one, so make it happen. [laughter] But other than that, that's all I've got. >> Splash pan open
stands completed. >> Yay. >> Lights are coming to Manity. >> I believe we need to change the name of the splash pad to Cape Canaveral Dancing Waters. >> We need to put some speakers out there
and play a little Frank Sinatra, a little Dean Martin. [clears throat] for the little kids >> and just being like the Bellagio. >> Oh, [laughter] >> but not >> Brad. Would you like to make the motion again?
>> No. >> Okay, then. >> Um, it's 7:20. I'd like to make a motion that we bring the meeting of the Culture and Leisure Services Board uh meeting to a close uh to a close. Do I have a second?
>> I'll second it. Okay. Mary Mascara, >> four. >> Brad Pll >> James Stoby, >> it's hammer time. [laughter] >> Betsy Wrong. >> Mary Lucian. >> Okay.