How you been? Okay. >> Doing good. Yeah. >> How about you? >> Yeah. Real good. a lot of Janet's family here this week. >> Okay. >> So, we're in
>> family family summertime mode. >> Yep. So I started doing those here. >> Here >> morning.
Um, first order of business is uh old business, a report from the city manager. Paul, you're ready to give your report. >> Well, the first thing I wanted to make sure everybody's aware of, if you haven't been on Lafayette and Broad, uh
they've uh the county has installed some flashing uh pedestrian crossing signs to kind of amplify the uh the pedestrian crosswalk at Broad Street on Lafayette. Um they're not the push activated ones. They're the ones that flash all the time. um that's what they kind of had
the budget for. So, I'm going to see how that works out this summer and and maybe push for them to put the uh push button activated ones because I do think that they're a little more um effective uh for for pedestrian movements, but at least it's a little more advanced uh
information uh for pedestrians. uh public works has completed uh uh re a restriping program uh centered mainly down Columbia and around the mall Congress and and Ocean Street Perry um
where we uh freshened up and repainted all the crosswalks, bike sher and and and sign you know stuff on there to kind of make it you know fresh for the summer and for everybody to see. Uh no new
update on the uh safe streets to school project from the county. Uh my understanding is they're still on schedule for >> the safe streets uh to school project on Pennsylvania.
>> The one going out to the uh Coast Guard >> Coastg Guard base. Well, no, it's really from the coast. It's really from Pittsburgh heading back into town because I believe from from Pittsburgh heading into the Coast Guard base already has the bike lanes and everything. It's really the It's the
other side of uh Pittsburgh that they're going to be working on. >> Yeah. Pittsburgh to Michigan, I guess, >> I believe. Yeah. Eventually. >> Yep. Um our contractor doing the work on the sidewalks
has been a very big disappointment. Um he's very very very slow. Um so >> yeah slow. >> Yes. Uh sloths have moved faster than he
has. Um so he's probably going to be shutting down for the summer and then having to come back in the fall to finish up his project. I mean he's probably done about 25% 20% of the of the work so far. So, it just um I mean
part of it was he had to order we had to because we were replace resetting the slate, he needed to order custom size slate. So, that I mean that did slow him down, but he didn't pivot and really get and finish all the concrete sidewalk
areas. So, it's kind of he just kind of has let it languish a little bit. Um so that's we won't unfortunately where I was hoping to have a completed project for this summer season um that project's going to be kind of you know carried on
in in the fall after the summer season. Um uh most of our roadway projects have finished up uh you know they've did the final course paving on Illinois,
Idaho, um Stockton Place. Uh they're currently still installing the services on Winona and Swan. And next week they're going to get I'll say base paving in there. So that'll be covered up. And then next
week on those streets, the line stripers will be in and put all the stop bars and crosswalks and necessary line striping for those projects. And the one of the final elements of the prominade project starting next week,
the uh I'll say the the surface coating on the surface of the proomenade to kind of make it cooler uh will be going on. So there will be limited access to use the prominade as you would walk along the prominade uh east west. You'll be
able to cross the prominade to get to the beach. Uh so that if you're if you're looking to move east and west, you're going have to use the ADA mats out on the beach. Um, but you know, it's going to be a period of a couple days where there's going to be major stretches where you won't be able to
walk on the prominade because obviously they're painting and you got to wait for the paint to dry. And unless you want gray bottoms of your shoes and leave footprints all over the prominade, we're going to prefer everybody stay off the prominade for those days. So, that'll be
next week. >> Uh, just just a question or two on that. That's effective for both pedestrians and bicycles and any any movement on the >> common. Yes. Yes. >> How are you how are we going to police that?
>> People, signs, sticks. We'll just have signs up there and it'll be >> caution taped off and you know, you'll be able to cross over and everything will be >> cautioned off. It'll will there be barriers to Yeah. Yeah.
Yep. So that'll that'll be next week. I'm >> sorry. Could you touch on um the uh concrete work that was done at Broaden and St. John? >> Oh, so we we were able to the the contractor that's doing the police station building was able to connect,
you know, on if as you're coming up broad towards St. John on the I guess it's this the west side of the street there that intersection you could never walk you always had to kind of cross over the
street and get to the other side to the south side of St. John to walk down St. on you couldn't kind of you always had to step out on the street to kind of come around the corner if you were coming around there. Um I was able to get the contractor in advance. He I think a couple almost a month now he
installed the sidewalk access so that you can continuously walk. So it's you know it's it's now safe for the the the children from Kate May City Housing to kind of walk along that path and then they don't have to walk up and along St.
John and Lafayette along the the construction activity at the police station building. They can kind of cut right into Lafayette Tree Park area and and be safe. So, that was a a good addition from a safety standpoint to uh have that installed.
>> I for one happy uh it's been an ongoing concern of this committee that that 10 gap sidewalk. Oh, you you need to turn your you need to turn your mic and get you got get closer to otherwise you're not going to get picked up on the >> I was happy to see the change.
>> Yes. >> Uh it's been an ongoing concern of this committee. Uh and happy it's done. I've driven by it. One question I have and I don't know what what how wide a street lane should be. >> It's 12 foot wide. It's 12 foot wide. >> Sorry.
>> The traffic lane is 12 foot wide. >> 12t wide. Okay, that's good. >> That's standard. >> Okay. Okay, that's actually well the minimum is 10. >> Okay, it looked narrow to me that's all. So, okay, thank you. >> is 12. >> And um that sidewalk will connect it
does connects not only to the path where that leads to the school, but that's also going to continue around when the sidewalk is finished in front of the police station as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Eventually, eventually there will branch out going in both directions. >> When it's all >> Yeah. Yeah. when the when the final police station's been done, we'll we'll
finish off the sidewalk on St. John, of course. And I know that I've gotten a couple requests regarding uh that with a guy wire on uh park at one residence. Um you know, unfortunately, Lance Electric, that's what they do. If if if there's
ever a time where that that homeowner is in replacing that sidewalk, we'll make sure that he can skirt that around. But that that's I won't say it's uncommon, but we have a few spots like that around the city where um Elency Electric or
Verizon facilities have narrowed or limited uh that sidewalk areas uh in different locations. But, you know, until until that the that homeowner does anything, we're you know, we can't we're not going to actively go
out there and do that. Uh we lacy electric needs that guywire there to support their pole. Unfortunately, um that's where they put it. That's all I had for this morning. If anybody has any questions or
>> Thank you, Paul. Appreciate it. >> No problem. if if you could could you stay for a little bit because we we have um some ideas to go past you and the uh police department in regards to ebikes. >> Yep. >> Okay. Paul, can I ask a quick question?
I'm not sure it's in your category, but for those for the QR stickers, is that a Paul thing? >> Uh well, they're they're they're provided by the city, but >> Okay. Um >> question now, Tom, deal with it. I'm trying to get I want to copy those in
bulk for bike rentals. U right >> I just want I don't want to do it without permission. That's >> me being the law abiding citizen that I am. >> Yes. Yes. You're you're free to copy and distribute those. >> Okay. Excellent. Thank you very much. No problem. It's a great piece by the way. >> Yes.
>> Thanks Tom. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Um the next order of business is um old business with ebikes which are one of the hottest topics in this in the city these days.
And the the other day, uh, Tom and Jerry and I met and see how, um, how this committee can be, uh, be of assistance to the city, particularly the police
department in uh, education and enforcement. They're the they're the two arms of the ebike situation that we're most interested in in promoting safety.
Uh so the over the overall thought thought is um maybe one of the ways we we can help out the city is gaining data, amateurish data because we're we're not
official high highway engineers by any stretch of the imagination or or things like that. that we do have an interest in ebikes, pedestrian and bicycle safety. U and our charge is to advise
and assist the city manager and council and and through that and includes the police department obviously. Um, so a a thought we came up with was have have members of the committee here
personally monitor on um the most used streetways in Cape May City where there are e ebike
traffic is there and really how How much ebikes traffic is there? Now, I'd like to hear from the police department. You do you already have statistics and data in regards to at
rush hour, let's say, how how many ebikes are there going by compared to pedal bikes? Um and u you know what what what is what is the situation and where where should we be
looking as a team and I include the police department uh the bicycle committee uh and city manager to see okay let's say between uh 7 in
the morning and 9 in the on uh out by Duckies on on Broadway, the extension there. We know there's people coming into the city uh for work and between between those hours. Uh are
there three ebikes per hour? Are there 30 ebikes per hour compared to that? And so just that the city gets some has some data as far as policing it. uh
and promoting safety, etc., which could be a number of things. Um, so anyway, I I I throw that idea open. Uh, Tom and Jerry, you you may want to add in based on our conversation
on Monday when when the three of three of us met to discuss that proposition. >> Yeah, I I >> I go ahead, John. I was uh the idea of me sitting in an intersection with a clicker is is not very appealing. Uh I'm wonder are there smart cameras uh that
that can detect and and count these things? >> Our cameras have some capabilities, but you want us to be out there. >> Could no decipher between like a bike and ebike. or for that matter if the bike is the ebike is wearing a helmet or underage
where we could if we do that manually and I'm going to volunteer for one. So if we do that manually we can check off under 15 or under 17 wearing a helmet and so forth. So it's and get sheer numbers. So >> yeah.
>> Yeah. I guess what we're not asking you to gather the data, you know, we're not recommending, right? We we can't ask anything. We're not recommending. >> No. you supply if if you assist us in supplying the numbers, we could certainly gear our directed patrol towards >> that time frame for sure.
>> Well, I I guess our initial question is does this data exist? And I think the answer is >> not yet. Not yet. Okay. All right. So, that that's helpful to know. >> Then the next question is how shall we gather the data? And you're willing to sit out. >> It's me, not you.
>> How shall we gather the data? You know, sit out there with a clicker. Well, I guess you have a choice. >> I always I mean I pictured I pictured me sitting on a corner. I live half a block off a seashore. So, um I pictured, you know, just a tablet with columns going
ebike. I mean, I can do bikes also, but the f focus is ebike. Uh bike, ebike, helmet, approximate age, approximate type of ebike, you know, e-oto or or bicycle ebicycle, excuse me.
So, Did would would this be of value if we let's say starting uh the week before the 4th of July and do it for for two weeks through the Fourth of July week and we come back to
you with and I'm thinking maybe there's two or three different locations, one out by Duckies, maybe one on Pittsburgh, um maybe one on Colombia or Beach at certain times and uh Uh hopefully
we'd uh most or all of the US committee members would be out there collecting some data for you and by uh possibly the July meeting of our group come back to you and say okay here's here's what it is and it looks
like we have a situ you know a difficult situation here not so much here uh it it's much more lack of helmets or whatever as opposed to bikes going 50 miles an hour down.
>> No, we could certainly gear patrol towards that like we do for speeding complaints. You know, if we get a speeding complaint, we'll do a directed patrol in that location for, you know, uh for you know, this month we're doing a bic one squad is doing bicycle safety again. Um I think as since the last
meeting, we did conduct 25 stops for bike violations. Um a lot of that was education. So, we are out there enforcing it. That's just >> bike or bike and ebike. >> Everything bike >> both. >> Do you categorize uh violations by
number of ebikes versus pedal bikes or is it it doesn't matter? >> No, but we can start gathering that information in our log like if if the bikes, you know, if the officer conducts a stop on a bike, we can have them clarify somewhere. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, for sure.
>> So, okay. Uh I guess I'd like to hear from other members of the committee. Joe U, Bob, you know what you think of this proposal? Would you be able you two, George, participate in this at all? >> There's one more intersection I'd like to include in it, and that's Pur and
Jackson where they meet there by the little bridge going over the creek. That's that's like a disaster waiting to happen. They're coming in off of Myrtle like this way. And nobody wants to ride down Perry Street. >> West Perry and Park Boulevard. you talking about? Sure.
>> No, further up by where Bud Holmes used to be >> by the miniature golf course. How about that? >> But that intersection because people from Westgate May are going up Myrtle the wrong way >> and then they get there and it used to
be the traffic stop was right there, but now the traffic stop has moved further down. >> So, they're coming in right into the middle of the traffic and there's people coming all sorts of different ways. I think if we use that spot, we're going to pollute the data we get off a seashore road, which is in my mind a
necessity because they're going to come Seashore Road and whether it's Park Boulevard or Broadway, turn left on the West Perry, we're going to get we're going to be counting the same people is what what I'm concerned with. Um I mean, I would suggest you say Duckies, but I'll do it right at the end of my
street, which is too easy. Um tough commute. Um, so Seashore Road, I would do Perry at Beach or Decatur at Beach. And then you brought up Pittsburgh, which I thought was a great idea because then you're getting the major influxes in and out. >> People coming in and out. >> Yeah.
>> If you're going to do it, I I suggest you do it at the firehouse so you can actually see how fast they're actually going because there's radar. >> Good idea. >> And you can add the speed. Sure. >> I got, by the way, I have all the data now. >> Does Does that pick up the the speed of the >> I would assume it will.
>> Yeah, it does. Yeah, >> I ride there. So, >> what I ride by, it picks it up on my bike. >> Okay. Yes. >> But I think you have to have a minimum speed. >> You're pedaling or you just >> I'm pedaling. >> How fast? >> 10 miles per hour. Something like that. That's not fast. >> How fast you run?
>> I believe you've just been >> miles hour. >> Yeah. So, that'll give you an opportunity just to look at the sign. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I love it. >> Helmet. >> Yeah. >> This guy's going 25. Sure. This, you know, he should have, you know, >> I love it. another day.
>> And if you want to, you're welcome to sit on my porch. I can't I don't have time to do it, but you can sit on my porch and watch them go northbound, which is actually faster. They go faster. Cars go faster going northbound than southbound and bikes. >> Yeah, they don't. Uh, it's interesting.
Wonder why. Any idea why that is? >> Why they go faster? Because they're getting the heck out of Kate May. No, I I >> And they know >> that the stretch >> they're out of work and shortly north of there. I'm sorry, George. Go ahead. >> Yeah, the stretch between uh coming out of Leming and the end of town, people
already up to 40 miles an hour. >> Yeah, it's I was just going to say the same thing. It leads into 40 >> because it leads into a 40 mile speed limit. People tend to be breaking coming into town because we put the we changed the radar to 25 even though it's in a 40 section. Yes. Out on the other side of
Stimson. So people do make an effort most part to >> we do have a directed patrol schedule this month for Broadway. So you will see officers out there. >> Yeah, I have the I have all the data since March. So I did literally just got it yesterday. >> Okay. You definitely see you pull out of
Canning House Lane and you can see the traffic increasing or both ways. It's just it's just really really really trying to get through safety. I mean this is all about safety and >> absolutely. So I think if you know the speed that you'll give us much more data points which is good. >> Yeah.
>> So if you're proposing what are we proposing three lo three three different locations what three locations I mean great suggestion but the more locations the more uh difficult it is to arrange for coverage and there might be as Tom
said there might be you might there might be an overlap. So, is there a suggestion at Duckies or I'm sorry, the firehouse which would which would essentially be cover that area and then you're looking for an area on the um
coming across the other bridge on Lafayette or where where are you proposing in that um on on the Pittsburgh side of town? uh you know without without giving it a whole lot of thought or analysis
somewhere somewhere on Pittsburgh halfway between uh Wawa and the beach >> Pennsylvania Avenue the um which I understand it's a u so that
would that would not capture um traffic coming all the traffic that may be coming over the bridge >> or or out >> or out of the gas. So, >> and you have missed Washington Washington Street turnoffs. So, yeah.
>> So, at the tuna club. So, if I could add something, I don't know how valuable individual statistics would be for these locations we're talking about, but it sounds like, and myself I'm included in this, we can all
name intersections, locations, streets where there's daily violation of speeds, misuse of ebikes. For example, coming out of Waw Wa, you know, out Michigan onto West Street and Indiana over to the
water tower over to Colombia is, you know, a favorite route for people going from Wawa, a favorite uh venue to downtown. I mean, they're always flying down that street, turning it at um Michigan on to West Street. I mean, it's
I I don't have to count them. I can tell you there there it happens multiple times a day. >> You know, >> well, illegal use of >> there's multiple opportunities out there, but we we can only do so much as
with a handful of us here co coverage. I I'd rather probably limit it to two places um and do it for the next three weeks, you know, starting >> uh the week before Labor Day or July 4th and uh
by the time of our next meeting seal at one of those two places and what it's it's a small sample >> is is we're not talking about every day are we or weekday weekend day or just weekend. >> Yeah. Uh but it sees I mean the first
thing I uh we got to do is if we if we agree this is a good a good idea and a use of our time. Uh and then two how how many of us can sign up to participate in this and you know I'll I'll try and organize it as far as
time and you know who who's doing it. And you, you know, you may say, "Well, I I I can afford to do it uh two times a week for an hour and a half each." I'm just making up a number here. Uh but how it fits into your personal schedule. Uh
or if you don't want to do it at all. Uh so but I guess the first step is you know continue here with our ideas and se select two spots um where we'd like to
start. We may do it again if it we if it seems productive may do it again in August um at two different spots. Uh I don't know. I just want to take it take it a step at a time and see whether we as a committee whether we approve of the
idea or not and then um put uh m make it an official okay here's what we're going to do here's where we're going to do it and which of us are going to be able to participate and how much in the survey
and Tom I would you have you have an idea of a form in your said, "Let's make it uniform so we're all using the same form." >> Yeah, >> I lay one out. >> Yeah. Yeah, I'll do it. >> Yeah. I would think most people you're going to catch broad, especially coming
in Broadway between 8 and 9 in the morning and between 4 and 5 at night when the beaches are clearing out when people are coming to work. You know, that's when you're if you want to get, you know, the heaviest >> agre you go at 11 o'clock, you're going to be sitting there twiddling your thumbs. But that's I think time is a
very important when you do it. >> I can tell you from living on Kenny House Lane. Um it always floores me when I'm leaving town how many ebikes are coming in with workers coming in for whether it be restaurants or hotels. It just it stuns me in in the summer
particular. >> This is a great form of transportation. It's absolutely it is >> and unfortunately they're the ones that are going to get hurt the most by this the new legislation. So we can document it. a little help. >> Yeah. >> And it might be interesting to do it in
the evening also. Um just particularly headlights, tail lights, helmets, those type of things. You know, you you got a family of four, mom, dad, and their two kids. They don't they're go going down
Beach Drive with taking up the whole road. >> Yeah. >> Wrong direction. Yeah. That never happens. So, if I could make a if I could make a suggestion, it's it seems as though there's a consensus that this would be um a good idea. Um if if I may,
you know, Jim, you >> you it's um Jim, you and Jerry and Tom had met and had talked about this. Um I think that if knowing that there's a um agreement to
move forward with this if amongst the three of you if you wanted to refine this to a couple of locations as far as with a time um maybe that would be a you know that would be the appropriate step to take and then we can discuss as far
as how to do this including even the method of how to get the you know get that information. Tom, sounds like you have an idea as Jerry indicated. Um, so instead of I think it might be better suited for just a couple people just to kind of drill down on as opposed to just kind of like roundtabling it here at
this point. That would be my suggestion. >> I'm also going to forward to whoever who anyone who volunteers some quick gauges and guides on what is an ebike, what is an e-oto. Um, my hope, you know, one of my many contentions of this legislation
is the people riding properly on bike on ebikes that look like bicycles are the ones most affected and they're not causing the problem. But if we as a group can't tell that it's an ebike or a bicycle, which is very common now, um,
the the data will be flawed. So, >> well, look, it's we we know that and you're correct. We know this is not going to be a scientific in that in that sense. Best it's a it's an effort to try to provide data to the police department. Uh which which um you know
and also did one well data it also it'll give information for you know for us as well as opposed to just anecdotal information that we see. we all see things on a regular basis, but um this gives some some structure to that. Um
and pass that information along to the police department. And Lieutenant, I know you had talked about the idea that the the police department did directed patrols last year. Hopefully, this is the type of information that could be of assistance to the police department um
you know with uh in enforcement measures. Yeah. >> Measures now. So Jim, I don't know how you want to proceed um with this particular issue. If you feel that there's more that we need to be done at the table right now, I just want to also
mention I know um Lieutenant and captain are here to discuss issues regarding BayAC as well as um issues with enforcement, director patrols, and also to respond to questions from us today. So I also want to make the best use of of their time for their uh for their
discussion points too. But I don't want to rush things along. I just want to make sure that we have a complete discussion with this. But also um you know be mindful of of we appreciate their time. >> Well, okay. My suggestion is I I'd like to put it up for a vote of the committee
whether we proceed with this idea and then if we get a yes um have Tom and Jerry as our two leaders in the ebike uh issue put together the out the
outline of a program of a form to use where we're going to use it and how we're going to get the other the other members all members of the committee involved in participating in this or who's not able to do it for whatever their schedule or or they don't believe
it or or whatever the reason is. So, I I I make the uh the motion that um the bicycle and pedestrian advisory committee move forward with an effort to
gather data in regards to ebike um traffic at two locations in Cape May or West Cape May or maybe Where's Duckies? Is that in uh >> West?
>> West Cape May. Okay. So, Cape May, West Kate May, uh, going forward. Do I have a second on the emotion? >> Okay. All in favor? >> All opposed?
Okay. Looks like we got we got we got an idea going forward here. Uh, Jerry and Tom, would you >> this afternoon? >> Okay, great. Thank you.
>> Can we just make sure that when we're looking for certain violations that you guys are all on the same page with the same data so that way we don't have different feedback from different people in different locations? If we're going to keep it, could we just keep it standardized? >> Okay.
>> Yeah. As straightforward as as possible would be would be uh I think best >> speed. >> If we can do that, that would be ideal. And I just also want to put out there that from what I'm hearing it's speed, lights, just general how they're driving. Like that's all stuff that's
>> Yeah. But but also like the violations that you're looking for, >> that's all stuff that we're already enforcing. Correct. Like that's nothing new, >> right? >> That's nothing new from anything that we're already doing. So I just want you the committee to understand that when we're out there doing these these you
know details that are monthly like they are looking at all of those things that so there's nothing new in the legislation that we're not looking for already that's taking >> nobody's saying you're not doing >> I just want to make sure we're all on the same page. >> One one of the problems you run into and I get this constantly >> there's people speeding down my block.
Well, unless there's somebody there to catch them speeding, you know, and there's a probability if they're doing a a directed >> uh >> force on that street. Otherwise, >> you don't know. And it's not every single car. So, but people say, "Oh my
god, they see three cars speeding in a day and they they're upset and you know, they have to understand that can't be everywhere at once. Everybody doesn't get a police officer on their block." A and just like we're trying to balance bike safety, we're also trying to balance general calls for service, the
the the other normal traffic enforcement duties that we're doing. So, I just want there to be some reasonleness and understanding that we're trying to fit it into the larger scale of policing as well within the community, too. So, >> I'd like to bring up uh now this is
purely anecdotal, but uh on I was interviewed from a new Facebook page called Kate May now. Um it was a half hour of of interview and test ride and um it got
posted and there were hundreds of replies to it and I did a you know a quick gauge of what the complaints were and almost to a tea was underage kids, kids going too fast, kids not wearing helmets, kids
riding down the wrong side of the road. I mean, it was kid kid kid. So that I would suspect would be the first focus that's coming from all over the place. So, uh, >> yeah, and I think we could all get behind the fact that we want the kids to be safe. Yes.
>> At the end of the day, if we could prevent a child being struck by a car because they're riding unsafely or if they're not wearing a helmet. I think we could all get behind. Yeah. The kids. >> Yeah. The helmets are Yeah. >> But I mean, just recent just within the past couple of days, a five-year-old
>> hit a car on an ebike. >> And now, boy, am I guilty on this. I'm not sure it was an ebike. Could have been an Emoto, but an E machine. So, >> it's an interesting one because I mean, I live on Broadway. I'm outside all the time
>> and I see every time somebody's run down the street the wrong way and doing things. It's not that many. >> The bigger issue that I see is is low speed vehicles and >> cars. It's the cars turning in front of people not stopping at crosswalks that
kind. It's not the they've made this issue of ebikes because there's been some dangerous situations that have occurred because people don't know how to operate them safely. >> Yep. And they're d it's not like you're riding a bicycle. You can actually go faster. So I part of me thinks a lot of this is overblown as somebody can I'm
there. I see it every day. >> Yeah. >> And I back out of my driveway and believe me I know when somebody's come up the sidewalk the wrong way and it's happened. >> Yeah. It happens. Yeah. >> This spring it's happened twice. >> You know on an e a bike they do that too. But I can they're not coming fast
enough that I I can already know. But so to me I don't I mean I sit I see this. So you're gonna going to do it your own evaluation. I don't see a ton of people being crazy on ebikes. I see cars >> speeding almost running over people all
on Broadway on crosswalks at the crosswalks. It drives me crazy. >> I mean because I cross that street a lot >> and and we see it. Is it happening? Of course it is because our in our enforcement squad they're they're they're seeing it. >> So like just want you to know that like we're addressing it. It's just we have
to address it in a balance along with policing the all the other duties that come along with running a police department. >> Well, I for one commend you guys because I was told of a police bicycle stop this morning when I was grabbing coffee. So, I know you're out there. Thank you very much. So,
>> yeah, >> Tom, I see in front of you a helmet. I I see a helmet in front of you. I was I was supposed to bring one and I forgot. >> He has that NTA. There's different standards for hel
if it is what I think it is. lights turn signal. It's a very specific ebike certified helmet. This is a middle. This is certified 20 most are
doing. It's not >> that's a those are just facts that we intend to share with the public. Not looking for any action on that. Yes, >> I mean there's legit out there71 capital of the world and
there >> a little bit later. Does the new New Jersey ebike law require a certain type of helmet? >> You know, I'm hearing two different things and maybe Scott knows now, Lieutenant Christ knows now. Um, there
are reports of requiring DOT >> which would be a motorcycle, right? >> But a motorcycle, >> right? >> But I'm not hearing that everywhere. I mean when I say I'm hearing I'm reading reports from Trenton and reports from
people that are reporting about Trenton. It's all so we'll see if if D approved are required we will have but that's $100 that's your
>> so my $20 Amazon helmet is not >> well I know I don't go I don't go over 15 I mean I when I do look at my speedometer 13 at max. >> Yeah, >> but the car that hits me would be gone over 50. >> We just brought up Amazon. And part of
um the reason the legislation has gone so extreme is not just Amazon. I don't want to target one, but uh it's funny. I I printed an article from um uh Congresswoman or assembly woman.
Somebody in Delaware is now pointing out how dangerous it is to buy e- machines from the internet because that what they're doing is since the enforcement has been so subtle over the years, they're pushing and pushing and pushing.
They get away with what everything they can. So these 50 mph e- machines are being sold as an ebike. You know, it's it's proof in in an ad. It's just it's just improper, illegal, and
unscrupulous. So dastardly deeds. So um but yeah, it's it's I mean that's all what is being part of what is being discussed in I assume this in Trenton now. So I know there's conversations going on behind closed doors that uh amendments are going to be made.
Hopefully that's one of them. So that's the reason why internet bikes were not were part of that legislation um is because of the guys that are lying. I mean it's and they're I mean if somebody goes to sue them they're gone. It's a Chinese company with no insurance, no
liability, anything. They're just gone. So >> So um do u Lieutenant Captain do you have any update on any of this information? >> Okay. Yeah, that's what just what I was going to say. >> Thank you. I well we sat through a Jersey Shore uh working group seminar on
ebikes. Um just some of the updates here. The ebikes licensing begins NJ at the NJMVC Wednesday July 1st. Ebike registration begins at NJMBC Monday, July 13th. So it
doesn't give you much time from the time. >> Say that again. So registration is July 13th. That's what I'm That's what we're just >> That's actually two weeks better than what what it was because they were stating July 1st as registration. So >> July 13th. >> Well, this is when it starts.
>> Not the deadline. >> July 19th is when the enforcement >> correct. Sure. So >> I know what it was. July 1st is when motor vehicles said they were going they will be ready to register. So they've committed to that date. So, >> um,
upon registration, lowspeed electric bicycles and motorized bicycle operators will receive two license plate stickers that shall be placed on both sides of the vehicle's front fork. Did you hear that part yet? >> Of the what? >> The stickers are going to go on the front fork. >> Really?
>> I have a picture of it >> on both sides. >> Both sides. >> Scott, I'm missing that last word. The front what? the front fork of the bike. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I guess it look like that. >> Okay. >> I would share this with you, but I was
advised I'm not allowed to. So, >> now is it anticipated that these stickers will be available by July 19th, the enforcement date? >> That's that's what is being pushed out. Yes. >> That's the information we have now. >> Yeah. >> Is that's what we're being told now. So,
we can't make you any promises after today, but as of this meeting, this is the latest and greatest information that we have. >> But we can't register an ebike now. >> No. >> No. >> What's the date again? >> They're saying July 13th. You're saying July 1st?
>> Uh, I saw a a video of a meeting and the director of D New Jerseys DMV said they will be prepared July 1st. >> Do you know when that was? >> It was I'm going to say five or six weeks ago. >> Okay. But July >> the latest and greatest information is
>> that just came out July 13 license July 1st registration July 13th. >> Yes. >> Now when you say let's just say that on July 25th you're out walking down the street and you see an ebike going by and it doesn't have a sticker on it. What are you going
to do? Anything? >> I think that gives grounds to stop at that point at least. Yeah, I think it's >> understand we need like anything else, we can't just arbitrarily stop someone >> just to stop them. I think if it's not stickered appropriately and the law then
allows us, I think then we're we're in an okay grounds to stop that. >> I suspected you would stop them and advise them that they need to get it registered and direct them to the to the site and tell them this is what they need to do, right? So that would be Yeah,
>> I think that would probably be the most appropriate at that point. That leads to the biggest question pertaining to Kate May and registration of ebikes. What about guests coming into town? >> That's the question I pose to the deputy
attorney general and um what we're being told now as to lensure assume that if the individual's home state has ebike lensure requirements then those requirements should be enforceable here. Um so my question I posed was can out of
state visitors bring their personal ebike and it are they exempt from registration insurance laws? Um they stated that that question is being referred to the administration but typically there is forgive me there is reciprocity between the between the
states and she said as you know no other state has the same as New Jersey. See to but to me again our number one charge is safety. >> Whether or not a person has registered a
bike is not nearly as important as to is this a 12y old out there on an ebike or is this 9:00 at night and there's no lights or no helmet. You know those those type of things are going to cause injury or potential
>> whether it's registered or not. We would agree with you on that. >> Uh I mean to me this I have no interest in following up on on that as far as this commit committee goes as opposed to let's let's let's make sure >> let's hammer down the safety issues.
>> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Interesting enough um just about all ebikes come with lights. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's you got the most dangerous the the uh availability to have the most
dangerous ebike machine in the world and they have lights. >> Anything else that you have that you can share with us? >> Um the topic emotos came up. Um and and that's essentially like like Tom said that's going to be a motorcycle essentially. You're going to have to have it registered. You're going to have
to have a license to operate a motorcycle. So, anything o over 28 m an hour, we're going to treat like like as such. Um, if you're intoxicated driving that, there's potential that you could be arrested. So, just keep that in mind.
Um, licensing, if your license is suspended, that topic came up. Um, certainly over the 28 mph, the emotives, you're you're you're going to be issued a summons. >> Um, >> what's what's between 19 and 28? What's
that called? >> It never been answered and it's 20 to to 28. What I mean what's that window? It's not because a what formerly class one is no throttle up to 20. Class two is
throttle to 20, pedal assist to 20. And then class the former class 3 which is I forget what their phrasing is is uh throttle to 20 and up to 28. Well, there's a big void there. Beyond 28 is a motorcycle. >> This is Beyond 28.
>> I I I can kind of walk us through this. The low-speed electric bicycles has two pedals, two wheels, pedal assist up to 20 mph, no throttle. This category most closely relates to the former class one category. Second category is motorized
bicycles, has two two has pedals, two wheels, and a throttle with a top assist speed of 28 mph. This category most closely relates to the former class two and class three categories. >> The last is the electric motorized
bicycles. Has pedals, two wheels, a motor of 750 watts or higher, and a throttle that drives the device at speeds higher than 28 mph. This device is an e- motorcycle, an e-oto, and does not fall under prior definitions of
low-speed ebikes. This category treats e motorcycles as motorcycles. Could I the second the class two formerly class two bikes I thought that >> they had the the pedals the throttle and
a maximum speed of 20 miles an hour >> 2020 20 pedal assist >> 20 I I thought Scott said 28 when you were 28 >> that's 20 that's class three >> 28 >> 20 or 28 >> two for the motorized bicycles that has pedals two wheels and a throttle with a
top assist speed of 28 miles per hour. >> 28. He's saying >> I read it. So Tom, you might be familiar with this. >> And I thought it was 20 miles an hour >> for class two, the former class two >> significant difference. >> Was that your understanding?
>> This is the new one, right? >> Can you read class two and again? >> Yeah, I could. So low speed electric bicycles is that that first tier, right? >> That says has pedals, two wheels, pedal assist up to 20 mph, no throttle. >> Right. That's closely relates to to one.
And then the second category here is motorized bicycles. Has pedals, two wheels, and a throttle with a top assist speed of 28 m hour. >> Well, that's very different than the old laws. So, >> so a three-wheel. >> Yeah.
>> A bicycle three wheels is not this >> three wheels. >> Yeah. >> Um that was kind of brought up like like a tricycle. You mean? >> Yeah. And that's going to fall under like the just pretend like it's a standard ebike. Like if it goes over 28 miles per hour, it's going to be
considered illegal, per se. >> I'm a lawyer and I don't protect. >> You're a lawyer going to argue it? Yes. Yeah. The same they were bringing up the same thing with the one wheel. >> Yeah. Yeah. They hoverboard like me.
>> How fast do those go? I have to say what I see is you guys are going to have your hands full just having these discussions with with folks on the street which candidly that's a discussion for you to have with those folks and address that from a safety standpoint. That's really
I think a a primary concern among amongst us. Appreciate the fact that you're doing the directed patrols. I think they send a I think they're very helpful for the city. Um I think people knowing that they're out there. It's just like when people know that there's they're doing drunk driving enforcement
or speed enforcement or seat belt click it or or ticket enforcement, people modify their behavior and they're just it gives them an awareness that they just they do modify their behavior. Is there anything that you can anything else you can tell us about um your the plan the city's plan for directed
patrols um on the island this summer? Um we are continuing this month with uh believe it's Sergeant Gibson squad is doing the bicycle safety. So they're totally geared towards bike safety laws. Um we will know more information. The Chiefs of Police Association we just heard was going to put out new
information June 17th or June 18th. Um that they'll be putting that information out to um all the chiefs of police. So hopefully we'll have more information there. Um also I just emailed you this morning. I was still gathering information. Um, Kirkley Heights. Was it the
>> the ordinance? >> The ordinance. Um, >> they're not really sure how they're going to implement the education side of it, like if they stop a child, like how they're going to get them into some sort of educational program. They're still working on that, but they did give me information on um a group called uh
these guys, and they come out and they're going to be doing like um bicycle safety um presentations and training for the officers. And also they'll do a secondary presentation for uh just for the public. So you have that information. It might be free to the
city. They're working on a grant for us. So we'll see if if that comes comes along. >> Okay. Okay. So, what the lieutenant is making reference to is there was um an article recently recently Berkeley Heights, which I believe is in Union County, uh passed a municipal ordinance
regarding um ebike ebike safety and one of their a component of their ordinance is that for a violation that violators could be sent to an education program. Um and the the we uh went back and forth
on it to part of the discussion was so what is the education program that they that they have? Do they have something that's already created or is somebody saying we're having an ordinance and now handing off to somebody to say come up with a program? So, um I'd ask the um
the lieutenant to take a look and see if the the county or DOT had created some type of education program because it's something that could be utilized um as an alternative when there when there are violations that are observed instead of
as part of the the process instead of saying hey you get a you get a ticket but um the a consequence would be person has to go to an education program regarding regarding ebikes So, we're at that stage where we're still looking to to find out that information.
>> Yeah, I I spoke with the lieutenant at the pro our prosecutor's office and we don't have anything at the moment, but we'll continue to work on that. >> Okay. So, my my thought is Berkeley Heights already passed the ordinance. They're in a position where they're going to have to come up with something.
So, um from my standpoint, look, if if the if the if it was going to be something put together at the at the Kate May County level, great. If it's put together at DOT, great. But Berkeley, they're on the clock already because they have an ordinance on the books. Somebody there is going to have
to do something. And and if for um so I would just ask that we continue to monitor, find out, check in with them periodically to see what they have in place. And it might be something that we can adopt and utilize here. Um or we could use it as a base to, you know, to
to try to work with. So, um I appreciate you keeping an eye on that just uh as time unfolds. >> Yes, sir. >> Could I ask one question about um uh the license requirements for people under 17 who obviously don't have a driver's
license, say a 16y old, >> how do they acquire the license they need to ride, drive an ebike? Was there any in the seminar you attended, was there any discussion? It's essentially the same thing the NJMVC said and has on their website on how to go about that.
They they would go to MVC on July 1st. Um >> they need to get it's not available now. >> They need to get a moped license. That part is actually available. So >> Okay. >> That's a standard moped license. So >> and it's 15 and 16. Am I right, Scott? >> 15 and 16. Yes, sir. Your schedule road
test >> above that it's a stand. >> So under 15, you can't even ride. Correct. And above that, it's just a standard New Jersey driver's license. >> Thank you. >> We're aware, trust me, we see the
hurdles already like >> Yeah. >> But I think >> again, as we said, like we're concerned with the safety portion of things and that if we could hammer that home this summer, I think we're really >> we're doing we're doing something. >> Yeah.
Sorry. And and again, ways of informing the education arm of the public, the ebike, uh renters, you know, whatever is I mean it's a challenge to be able to do it particularly with visitors. You can
do it with residents under a structure. With visitors is a little little more challenging. >> Yes, >> for sure. >> Yeah. I think we we again you hold the visitors more accountable to the safety portion of it. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I could see that coming out of that. >> Yeah.
>> Anything else uh on your agenda to report? >> No. >> No. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much for your uh time and attention and took a lot of your time. >> Thank you, Captain. Thank you, Lieutenant. Appreciate you. >> Thanks. >> Yeah.
>> Um any other new business? Uh, >> could I ask a question of Tom? >> Yeah. Um, wait till we >> soon. Yeah. >> Uh, be before the meeting started, Tom
said to Bob, "Don't buy the uh liability insurance." He was quoted. What? >> Well, there's two things. Um, and we were discussing it the other day. This is not fact yet, but uh there were I'm part of a a bicycle dealer group that
has a hundred 150 dealers involved with it, which are all ebike dealers. That's why they're all grouped together. And there's a there's a a handful of us that are leading the group, but the assistant to a senator who was in a behind closed
door meeting of ebike legislation flat out said as an example class what was I mean it's low-speed vehicle which was formerly class one already doesn't have to have u insurance. So again not fact >> under the current law.
>> What's that? >> Under the new law >> under the new legislation. It's changing. It's just not fact yet, as Jerry pointed out. >> Not law yet. It's not law yet. >> Um, but secondarily, he he was quoted, was it $150? He said >> 150 149 per
>> Yeah. That's absurd. It's I mean, every quote I've heard from numbers of of dealers across the the state, it's like 80. So, he's being quoted per bike. Yeah. >> Per year. >> Per year. >> He's being quoted by somebody that
doesn't know how to do eBike insurance. So that that's what it comes down to. So >> and there is a I should have told Bob this, but there is a group called Vevel Insurance that ensures it's VEL ve s u r
a n ce I guess um that ensures individual ebikes effectively and affordably. Vel. V E L O. >> Real. Yeah. >> Insurance. Okay. >> Assurance.
Insurance. >> Okay. Any any other issues besides the ebike program here that anybody would like to bring up to the committee? Okay. Um, the one thing I skipped over was approval of the minutes. Uh my my
suggestion is that we take these home with us. >> Good. >> And read them rather than taking the next 10 minutes to uh to do it and come back to our next meeting in uh in July and approve the minutes. Then we can if
you want we can and I'm willing to stay and read through them. I have not read through them yet myself. >> So let's let's take them home and and We'll approve them at the next meeting. >> Uh I picked this up in the foyer. What a
topic I was going to bring up today is pedestrians and cyclists in crosswalks. It's already printed and right up there. I I was happily floored. So >> it's here in this building. >> I just grabbed it right there. Literally
right there. So, uh, it details out what pedestrians are supposed to do in crosswalks or non-crosswalks. My why I was going to bring it up is I see cyclists all the time. Uh, again, this affects me, but I don't want anybody hurt. You know, Aunt Millie once said that, you know, you're if you're in a
crosswalk, you're a pedestrian. Not the case. If you're on a bike and you're you if you're on a bike, you're a vehicle. If you go into a crosswalk, you're a vehicle in a crosswalk, not a pedestrian in the crosswalk. So, they have zero pedestrian rights. So, Get off the bike and walk
>> if Correct. Get off the bike and walk it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. And they have that button for the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And Well, maybe you're addressing this, but I think there's also a difference in
enforcement between if if you actually have a a foot on the crosswalk, you're in the crosswalk. Others say that if you're on the curb above the crosswalk, you are in the crosswalk.
So, and someone someone was told me, I don't know if there's a fact that Pennsylvania has a different law about that than New Jersey does. Um, as far as car automobiles should stop if they uh see
somebody on the curb above the crosswalk. that's actually addressed in here. I'm not finding it real quick, but the the uh intent of walking into a crosswalk or the road for that matter. So
>> then there are the people who stand in the at the in on the curb couple feet from the crosswalk, you stop your car, you flash your high beams at them, and they still love them coming. Yes. Okay. >> Well, they're having a conversation with somebody standing in the crosswalk, >> right? Or not. even they just assume the
car has a right away. >> Okay. Uh I don't think we're going to have any public comments. Uh so I uh can I ask a question of u Steve and George um local ordinances
are and state I believe reference 750 watt motors. Why is that pertinent? I don't know. >> I know it I seem to be piggybacked off of what lower did, but as an example, a
250 watt motor can go over that speed limit that's required or or mentioned with a 750 or a 500 watt motor. It just it seems everything should be based off of speed, not >> weed standards that were there. That's that's the that's the answer. We didn't create the standards.
>> Yeah. So, um that's the reason Uh I make a motion that we adjourn. Do I hear a second? >> I I I meeting is a journ. >> Thank you. Thanks everybody. >> Thanks.
>> Yeah. >> You're seeing a lot of bikes in Western. >> Well, coming from the wall. >> Yeah. Come from out Massachusetts. Oh, then >> west left and right on Indiana. You know, they're working their way into town and that's the fastest route
really. >> You know, Indiana out to the water tower, then on Columbus. >> Yeah. Make that job. That's a that's a very popular route >> for bikes and cars. >> Right behind you.
I was going to say it's weird. At the same time, Saturday night, >> okay, thank you, gentlemen. >> Thanks, Jim. Good to see >> you. See you guys. >> I am prepared.
>> I'm going to England for a week next week. and leaving Sunday and coming back Friday. I'll be out of town and then I leave it to you and Jerry together available by phone or by email or something like that.
>> Okay, I'm going to get the corn out tonight. I'm going to volunteer. >> Oh yeah, or somewhere on >> Candy House. >> Yeah, after drink >> the other one. We'll just need somebody else to do >> Beach Drive or Pittsburgh Avenue. Well, get the jury to see what what he
suggested. But I'm here