All right. Good evening everyone. We have a uh city council me uh regular city council meeting of the city of Kate May. We are here in the Kate May city hall auditorium. Today is Tuesday, May 6th, 2025. The time is now 5:00 p.m.
Please join me for the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. Thank you. Under the open public meetings law, notice of this meeting was sent to the Kate May County Herald and the press of Atlantic City and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council, posted on the city website and city hall bulletin board. Notice is
hereby provided that Kate May city council meetings are audio recorded and/or video streamed live. Live video streams are posted to the Kate May city website. The city of Kate May is not responsible if audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable. Roll call. Council member
Bald Baldwin here. Council member Bodner here. Deputy Mayor McDade here. Council member Meyer here. Mayor Mullik here. City Solicer Gillan Schwarz here. City Manager Dietrich here. Deputy Manager Riggs here. Deputy Clerk Turner here.
And CFO Haney here. Any additions or deletions tonight? Council, any additions or deletions? Council? No. All right. Employee of the month. Okay. On to employee of the month. Thank you. Um, always the good time of
the month of the year when we get to do one of these. So, um, Kyster, come on up, please. So, Esther Chico, she's one of our new employees in the tax collector's office. And if you haven't seen her, she's a a bright new addition that we have there.
Uh she's really a great caring and individual, always real patient with uh everybody that comes in and has to pay their taxes. So, she's a warm, friendly pace face uh in there. Uh we were fortunate enough, she came from a really good financial background. We stole her
from Sturdy Savings Bank. So, you know, we kind of brought her into the mix. So, she's been a great addition. And, you know, just just really a little story just to kind of highlight some of the stuff she did. So, on a cold, this was back I don't know when it didn't tell me it was few weeks back. It was really
cold out. We had somebody that walked over from Beach Avenue. I think they'd walked up to beach tag thinking they were going to buy beach tags. Came in here really tired, really out of breath. Esser sat out in the hallway with them getting them water just making sure that they're okay. Their husband was going to
go pick them up, walked them over to Victoria Towers just to make sure that they made it through. So, it just kind of just highlighted some of the dedication that are that we have some of the new employees working here and it's just a great addition. So, I just want to, you know, congratulate Esther on being chosen as the employee of the
month for K. [Applause] Okay, one more. Deb, come on up. Come on. Come on up. Sure. Come on up, please.
the whole department here. Thank you. Thank you very much. And uh thank you to the whole department. Um I think we had a return rate of of of 99 36.
So, uh, really, really high and we appreciate all your hard work. So, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. Okay. With that, we have our updates and old business. City manager, do you have any updates for us this evening?
Thank you. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you. A couple. Uh, first, um, I just wanted to be be aware. So this it's actually the 2004 state plan is going through its cross acceptance process with with the state and it's you know
it's the state plan says 2004 we're in 2005. It's still in draft form but it takes the state a long time to do stuff. They're now engaging with all the different counties and municipalities to just kind of go over things. They're not changing if you probably remember some of the old cross exceptions processes.
It actually changed town center areas and what we could what towns could do within those areas. This is not this type of a process this time. This is really a more traditional plan across acceptance planning process where we're just looking at
identifying key things and moving those forward. Um, so really the document that you see is really a list of some of the planning documents that we've done during this last planning recommendation as well as some some areas where we did make some recommendations uh for changes
or clarifications generally whether it was directly for Kate May city or um to the state plan itself and most of those went were relying or regarding some resiliency and consistency specifically
with, you know, you have one state department, the D enacting or proposing the NJPAC realal rules that was looking at a 75- year planning horizon, whereas the state plan, even in their resiliency standpoint, is only looking at a 25-year
planning horizon. So, you know, they need to really have consistency with within the state as far as planning e efforts. and we should all be working towards one goal, not you know having mixed goals and different planning efforts. So that was I'll say
the largest uh recommendation and concern that the our the city made back to the state plan. So I just wanted you to be aware of that. It was really a document that went through the uh planning board process and then was submitted up to the
county for uh submitt to the state. That's great. And then it's now we're gonna we're in the middle of our regular budget process, but now we wanted to really start our capital budget process.
Uh specifically because there's one specific project that we kind of need to move forward in our planning process. Oh, come on. So, here's our our what we're asking for for a budget timeline. You know, we're looking at, you know, we're discussing
the major project lists with council and obviously introducing this to the public this evening. Uh we're looking for a uh introduction of the bond ordinance on June 3rd. Uh have a more discussion on the 17th for the public direct
discussion if if you council so chooses. Uh and then we would have a uh public hearing and adoption on the July 1st council meeting. And then then we could have uh that those funds available 20 days after the July 1st. That's an important time frame for one of our
specific projects. Uh as we move forward, um when we look at just a summary, the general capital bond, we're looking around just over 9.6 almost $9.7 million. Uh we have $500,000 in the
capital section of our current budget. So we'll detail how that those funds that are in the budget will be spent. Uh then we're looking at 2.355 in the water sewer capital and then another two for beach capital. Um here's an overall project
summary of of the um different sections and how they all uh look out. On the bottom left is the uh 500,000 for that's in the um municipal budget. That's a $450,000
that would be a match to a potential $1 million uh re rehabilitation of the brick facade here at city hall. Um as well as a $50,000 um invest additional investment on an additional phase for security cameras.
Uh we need to expand cameras up and around beach tag in the one side of convention hall uh and the welcome center and a couple other uh I'll say blind spots that that we've kind of identified as we've rolled out the uh camera phase. Um I also believe at our
next council meeting uh we're anticipating having a presentation uh of the total camera system. most of the system, at least on the Washington Street Mall, is up and operational. And that way they can come in and kind of really give a nice demonstration and and
show in real time uh how the system works and um how it is going to aid uh our police department and um making sure that the city is safe for our residents and visitors. um to kind of go over the projects. Uh
20 for road improvements. Uh we've done a lot of projects lately where we've kind of leveraged grant funds and trying to do a total road reconstruction. Um where we're replacing water line, sewer lines, storm water, and doing a road
total re road reconstruction. However, in doing that over the last couple years, there are some some streets that don't have or need those infrastructure repairs. So, we're kind of taking a a pause this year and trying to do a a
section of streets. This is close to a mile of streets within the city that we'd be able to kind of do a a larger chunk of streets because obviously if we're not doing all the other infrastructure work, we can get more mileage done uh per dollar, so to speak.
So those are some of the streets. Um talked with public works and uh road road and I mean water and sewer and you know based on they all have good infrastructure not a good road surface. So this is why we're recommending uh this section of sheets for streets for
roads. Um this is probably our critical I didn't update this slide. Um critical process and I'm going to go back just to work at the dollars because this has the correct dollar amounts. So that it's an additional $2.643 million on the police station
headquarters and then for site work and uh upfitting of the computer network and furniture and the other site pertinances generator um you're looking at another 1.857 million. It's important to get this project moving now or from a
bonding perspective so that the anticipation is to go out to bid in June so that we have uh bids due in August so that we can have a potential council award in early
August so that we can break ground in September which then would put us on a timeline to have a constructed police station building in the early spring of 2027. So that's that's kind of the the
timing of why I've kind of moving this presentation up a little bit just so we can kind of move this process along for this project as well as a couple others. Um again, here's the renderings of the police station. They they really haven't changed as far as the exterior
and the layout. you know, uh, we've had our task force working with the various consultants on the interior layout. I know chief's been working with a lot of his other contacts in the department of corrections and on the state side to get the various approvals that he needs to
do on his side. But it's moving forward and and both our engineer and architect have are ready to be able to have a plans available final plans for council's approval in June so that we can continue this bidding process. Other
projects that we're looking at within the capital bond, uh, holiday decorations, uh, looking at installing several poles and lighting along, uh, Washington, Lafayette, and Ocean Street, uh, to have, you
know, this kind of gives you the the display across the street. Um, you can kind of see the pole wraps. I can't really see it. I have to get a better picture. Zoomed in. On the left side of those poles, they put Reese or
decorations up the sides of the poles also, as well as putting some Reese and uh other decorations around city garland around city hall and the community center. Um the the majority of the the the I'll say the lighting fixtures is
around the $35,000 cost, but the the poles are another 70,000 and then about another 60,000 65,000 to uh run the electrical lighting for that. So we could either do that in phases or um
however council wanted to uh proceed with that. Um the other projects are you know continue we started a project but we need to fund for the uh convention hall concert lighting. Um we've been working on we had one bid that we kind of rejected put back out to uh we're
going to be putting that back out to have a better fine-tuning of what the lighting needs are for the concert and um hope to have that funded. And then there's also been some discussions about possibly adding a uh bathroom along
Jackson Street along the mall uh to provide some more another comfort station for the public in that area. Uh and this is the model that we've kind of look that you see here. It's actually a self-cleaning restroom. Um it's almost if you've ever gone to
like a an automatic car wash where you're you kind of drive in and and uh get your car cleaned. uh what happens is every time you leave the bathroom or every after so many times it actually internally washes itself and cleans
itself. Um and uh that's one of the things we're looking at possibly adding for uh the Washington Street Mall. um equipment purchases. Uh we're looking to uh convert uh our enterprise leases
into a bond so we can make better capitalization on uh the lease purchases. Uh right now our lease purchases are are taking away a lot of our O&E within our budget. So in order to free up some of our O&E space, uh we want to move those to a capital bond
purchase. Uh and then some of our equipment, um an ambulance, we're going to put in another ambulance. We still have not received the ambulance that was bonded for two year two or three year 2023. Um
and it's still I think another year out or at least eight months out from now. Um and they're telling us now that it's a 900 day lead time if you order an ambulance. So, uh, in order for us to kind of get into the queue for another
ambulance, it's about time. Uh, the recycle truck, not the residential collection trucks, but the smaller, um, beachfront and mall recycling truck that we use needs to be replaced. Uh, as well as a chipper and some other shop
equipment. Uh, we'll round out the equipment purchases that we shown on them. Paul, can I just ask you one quick one on the beachfront recycling? Yes. Will that be under the beach utility b uh bond or or will that be separate? I mean, we could talk with bond counsel
on whether or not that that could, you know, because it I mean, it's whether it's beach or tourism related. You know, we could we could talk to bond counsel on whether or not either one of those utilities could handle that cost with look at splitting it because it's going
to serve those two those two functions. I mean, that's something we can talk with bond council and and get their recommendation for sure. Um, how many vehicles in a small vehicle fleet? We're evaluating that. We have there's about a half a dozen small
vehicles, pickup trucks and other small vehicles that we're looking at. um as part of the enterprise feed if you recall it was kind of upgrading everything to try to get into a that program where everything was within a five to six year
life. This is kind of I'll say the final phase of what what wasn't done during that initial enterprise purchase was looking at the balance of those vehicles. At this point, we're trying to maximize and figure out the exact
vehicle, but we really put ourselves, this is a dollar amount, and then we're going to try to figure out really what vehicle best fits that purchase price because the vehicle pricing has changed and is really fluid and you know, from month
to month, it seems like pricing is changing on some of the vehicles. Some of the state contracts haven't been reawwarded. So, you know, we have less flexibility in some cases depending on, you know, normally, you know, years past the state contract was renewed pretty frequently. So, you always kind of knew
what that pricing was. The state hasn't been as quick at renewing some of their state contracts to have some of the pricing of the vehicles that we're looking for. as well as looking at some departments that need energy efficient or fuel efficient type vehicles that that can use them compared to, you know,
where we know some of the emergency vehicles aren't the best for I'll say electric or hybrid vehicles where we're having some issues. So, we just want to maximize that. Thank you, Paul. Just a to kind of continue with that with the
enterprise. Um, can we get clearly you're making the decision based on some data. Can we receive that data as far as you know we're moving away from that we're sure yeah we'll give you the ultimate yeah once we have the list of which vehicles that were moving into
this bond you know we can provide council with that list of that and then how far we are actually into that enterprise program because there's there's a lot that you know well this this I think we put in our last order of I'll say small dump trucks out of the
enterprise order and some of the enterprise vehicles We won't be buying out because because of some of the hybrid and electric vehicles. We have to maintain title under the lease for at least a year as part of the tax rebate and the pricing because of the electric
vehicles. So there's some of them that we won't be able to move over directly. Um but yeah, we'll provide council a itemized list of those vehicles before we go out and purchase. M but I even think um I would go back and say if you could just give us a summary that talks
about how many vehicles we have flipped or turned into um you know and um you know what we got in turn from and the uh what the sort of life term is for those. Yes. You know are we in a threeyear and we're in year two whatever it might be.
So, I I think a more detailed back um breakdown for not only where Eric's been Eric's been working on that whole spreadsheet on that vehicle inventory and and and how we're programming and trying to track which vehicles are moving forward. So, we'll we'll share that with council
before the next before we move forward. um public safety purchases um sec you know I mentioned the security cameras will go in uh to the uh municipal uh budget capital section uh but we have a police body cameras police and fire
safety equipment and then we're uh OEM is looking at an automated weather system I'm sure you hear that the the flood sirens go off every once in a while um they are manually operated so a somebody has to physically drive out to
within close proximity to that siren and activate that siren to make it happen. Um, this automated weather system would work on tide gauges and based on weather forecasting and be able to to do those
alerts and not only alert from a audible soundpoint, but also do a email or a text alert to people uh that would register and sign up for that service of of flooding. um which just makes it more automated and u much more effective
because obviously in the current system you have to rely on a person to go out and a identify the flooding and then make sure that the siren works when they press the button and and I think that um you know assistant chief deputy act has been doing in the job is really taking a
look at trying to get things a little bit more state-of-the-art number one and number two looking at systems for not only residents to be aware of, you know, a potential storm coming in, lightning strikes, things of like like that, but also to incorporate, uh, people who are
visiting. Um, so being able to use the text leverage system to get people to sign up um, so that they can be, you know, informed in a pretty timely manner. So, right. Is there a subscription associated with that? Similar to how we had sign, you know,
there will be a registration process to do it. that we'd ask people to to to register. No, I mean for the city to use with this technology is Yeah, that's part of the it's part of the scription because I mean a lot of description is cellular
data because at each tide station it's got to have a cellular communication back to computers to communicate with the sirens and the the the system itself. So yes, it's a subscription service I
assumed. Is it it's similar to that Nexol system? It would be similar to that. Yes. Okay. And we couldn't use utilize that as well see the Nexel can't you have to buy the tide stations that to measure what
the flood level is at actually so that to send the alerts and to trigger the that we may be able to tie it into Nixl to use Nixl as the backbone for some of the pushing out of the text and and email notifications. But as far as the backbone of the tide level and all that
other stuff, that's a a physical purchase that we need to do. We don't need to get into this uh now, but I do have a a legal question on notification, and I don't think you would know this off hand, Chris, but
um is there any liability in that system not operating as it should and an issue occurring? And I I don't want that answer now, but I just want to talk about that later. That's all. Um, now we move on to the beach capital.
Uh, we've been looking at, you know, we're in the process of doing the prominade rehabilitation. Um, I've discussing with the contractor. So, when we did be the work with beach on Beach Avenue with the county, they installed conduit before they paved for us to run
electric services through. Um, I've asked the contractor to give us some pricing on about five or six locations from Cove up to convention hall to essentially run our city electric service and put it in the conduit that
we had previously installed. So, um, we're looking to get those prices out, but in order to do that project, you know, we would need to to fund that, but that would help remove all of those services from Cove, the Second Street, Comfort Station. um Beach Shack,
Lifeguard Headquarters, um and down towards Convention Hall and uh Beach Tech. Um the other one would be to uh renovate Lifeguard Headquarters. That's about a $ 1.5 million project. Um here's
the the initial rendering. We've been working with an architect uh to kind of come up with a scope. If you if you look at this, the the top elevation is the view from the ocean. The the middle elevation is the view from uh Beach
Avenue and then obviously the two lower elevations are the sides. Uh the one on the left is from the cove and the other one would be looking from uh Convention Hall. And essentially this does not change the total height of the building.
This not does not change the width of the building. Um, all the expansion is moving and and I'll kind of show it on this next slide. Uh, this is the plan view. You can see in the front of the building where the handicap ramp now
goes down towards the the east. That is going to be expanded out and expand the uh restroom facilities uh and and locker facilities. And the the intent really the purpose of this whole project was to equalize the size of the the men's and
the women's uh locker room, bathroom, shower facility so that they had equal um facilities. Um if you've ever been in and visited the facility, I'm sure everybody's fully aware of the the men's facilities is probably two to
three times the size of the women's facilities. And that was okay 25 years ago when you know the lifeguard population was probably 75 80% male and 20% female. Now
it's about 5050 give or take a person here or person there. So um it it's only appropriate that we kind of upgrade those facilities and make them equal size. when you look at that, they have the same number of showers, the same number of bathroom uh fixtures, and the
the square footage is about the same. So, uh the architect really did a good job at using the space that we had. Um that does expand towards the ocean. So if you if you kind of think the new building will be at the end of where
the deck is now and then the deck that you see portrayed on this plan view would be cantalvered out over that. So it from the ocean side it would go out about another six feet of canal lever deck but that where the railing is would
be the essentially the end of the building that way. So, but as far as width, there is no really change in width. You you will notice I'll say on the right on the this plan view it's on the right side the handicap ramp will be
down that side to sim essentially the handicap will you'll go up from the from the prominade go up the ramp to towards the rear of the building or the oceanside and then you'd enter from the
rear of the building um for the handicap access. And this really um the the other views that we're looking at we're going to extend into the prominade and this was the solution we kind of came out. So I guess the only to the only extent we are expanding to the sides of the building is really for this handicap
ramp which really poses no detriment to the public as far as the neighbors on the other side. And the architect feels that we can do this renovation in one off season. So depending on when our bonding gets funded and when the
architect could get done the plans is whether or not we would do it during this off season or wait until the off season in 2026. Hopefully we can push it a little bit. But uh I just want to commend you and and the uh architect and all the council
members up here that have worked on this. I it's um an obvious one. Um, obviously we've gotten some complaints about it and then and and you walk in and you realize, okay, this was designed before we were 50/50 and in terms of,
you know, who's on the even the number of total staff, right? So, um, to be able to do it without blocking someone's view, which we understand people would be upset about, um, but to be able to, um, make some pretty significant
upgrades, um, you know. Yeah. And I I think it's uh it would be wonderful the the sooner we can get this done. Um and um Captain Beck back has reviewed this and all on board with it. So and I think it's a positive message to send to uh the female guards who have been sort of
you know tolerant for a while but um now we've got something to actually show them. So that's cool. So the big thing on the timing is this is the same architect that's working on the police station building. So if if council is acceptable to this project and want to move it forward, you know, maybe at the
next meeting I can get a resolution authorizing to proceed with the the final design of the building. Um that way I can um could we have Mr. Connley here and give a little presentation? I could I could uh I don't know if we want to do it the next meeting because next meeting if we have if we have the camera
and we have the budget on for that meeting. I don't know if you want to have a third presentation, but I think I in order to keep the project moving, I would need an authorization for him to proceed with the design work. Um, but I could have
him come back at that. So, if we're going to present this capital bond at the July 3rd meeting, I could definitely have him here at Oh, June 3rd. I could definitely have him here at the June 3rd meeting to make more to really go over some of the details and questions that
council may have. Um the water sewer bond really we are going to move forward on the uh water tower refurbishment at Madison Avenue. um had I've had some con I was anticipating having a proposal for council this evening um to award a
proposal to to design the painting. However, we met with a um consultant that we may have from a financial standpoint, it may be better to look at a more long-term where this company will paint it but also maintain the the
project for a 20-year life cycle. Um, and that the next paintings would be significantly less than a $2 million investment in painting and then in like eight years or nine years do another $2 million painting and then in another
nine years after that to do another $2 million painting or escalated at that point. They have a model that can um do a more economical maintenance over the life of that system to have a overall less life
cycle cost over the a 20-year life cycle compared to painting it and then waiting and inspecting it and then painting it again. So, um I'm gonna we met with him and I'm hoping to have a presentation on that that life cycle cost. But June
possibly. Um and then the other the smaller cost the improvements to the water system was another 300,000 in some parts. Um and then this is just kind of a summary of some of where some of the projects that were left over from last year. Uh the we
have that road the combined water sewer and road project that we received a $5 million grant from uh the DP to work on uh the last block on Ohio Avenue, Stockton, Washington, Idaho, Buffalo, Winona, and Swan. Um but that's all
inclusive of a $5 million grant and the city cost is about 1.5. So that was a good parlay of grant dollars with city dollars to get that number of streets and those were will be some of our last lead service
lines in the road as well as some aging uh sewer pipe. So um we're moving along pretty well on that. That's awesome. So that's where we end. I'll go back up if anybody has any questions on if you had any questions on
specific dollars and I didn't go through the act individual dollar amounts. They're kind of summarized there. Um but that's how we got those are the the various projects that we're looking for. Um individually they're all right there.
There's also the I think I did not have I don't remember. So, we do have I missed a slide. The um there's the har match for the Harbor View Park. Um just was talking with the engineers today on that. They're working on the final details that ready to go the bid, but we
do have to fund the match for that. Um and uh there's also we've been talking about the First Avenue pedestrian bridge. Uh that's looking at what the Kate me city's cost after we would get a 50% grant from the county and that would
be a joint project with West Kate May and the city. Um our cost is probably looking at between 135 and 165 if we want to move that project forward. Uh we actually have a pre-application meeting with the county set up later this month which that would kind of tell us if
they're going to be acceptable uh to that project or not. So, Mr. Dietrich, the one um item that is on here, I I would like to um have some further discussions. Sure. Maybe offline about the holiday decorations and the budget associated with that.
Yes. I know that Councilwoman um Baldwin and I have been talking about it. So maybe we can set up a time for the three of us to sit down and take a look at what the options are and then come back and um ascertain whether or not uh what the budget the capital I know we've talked you know over the last two months
we've been or three months we've been talking about this and trying to move it in different forms or fashion and and that's why we brought it back here to bring it through a more formal uh process to uh really look at the options and mayor and the other council members are you fine with that with council
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. Okay. Great. So, the the three That's good. Perfect. Okay. Okay. And just one other thing if I may to bring up uh because I love the water
tower and uh I remember when I was a kid one of the uh my friend's grandfathers would tell me how he used he would be the one to change the light bulb the red blinking light on top the light when he worked for public works Larry Mirs and uh I haven't seen that light been
working for a long time. So just keep that under. What's that? Oh, there you go. Maybe we can get from a drone. Maybe take it up and screw it. I'm just saying, you know, good to have it up there. That way planes know not to
uh do some emergency landings around us. And I know it will be addressed, but you you said it before, Mr. Meyer. Uh the uh uh the lettering of just raising that up a little bit. Actually, the the new if we go with the people that would that
have that longerterm maintenance, what they're recommending is on the towers like this that they're looking at with the cell towers is um that really the way they've been attached to our water towers, not the proper manner. They actually put a cradle system up and it's
a a better structural system that properly attaches to the um tower as opposed to the individual antennas attaching into the tower. They create a single cradle system and so then when the antenna people have to go on and off
on and off they're not doing some of the structural back and forth. So so what it is that cradle actually will go above the lettering so that the lettering is not impacted. whatsoever. That's good. Good value. Okay. Okay. Anything anything else, city
manager? Um the at some point I mean we're up at the end of our ability to renew or to award the trolley bid. I know that you had some questions, mayor, about it. Um, but
we have we're at our if we don't award at this point, we'd have to rebid it based on the 60 days. Okay. So, either if council doesn't act, it'll be essentially a withdrawal of the bid. Okay. Have to go out to bid rebid in the future. Let's discuss that then. I'm
sorry. I you know that's Yeah. If if we if we weren't up against the the the time frame. What is the deadline? Um about I think this week. this week or Yeah, maybe Monday next week. The 11th. Yeah, next week. Okay. We have to do something
formal. I would either need a recommendation this evening, a motion vote to accept the bid or reject the bid. Right. So, this was something that, you know, I had a um an interest in. I wanted to see uh us as a city, as a town, um develop
more of a uh transportation type program. Um being able to offer uh accommodations for people all year round for for seniors, for people who are here. We wanted to get around town. Um we talked Paul and Casey and I talked about, you know, a a flex schedule, all
sorts of different things. Other uh municipalities have it. A lot of um areas like us uh in Florida have these these types of services that they offer for moving people around. The the price point is much higher than I thought it
was going to be. Um you know and it that is what it is. It's just um so I I in in my opinion even though this was something that I was very much uh supportive of until we would understand sort the value proposition um and really
understand what uh I think um the residents would want to see in this kind of a program um without an other source of revenue to support it. I think it might be um a bit um much for us to undertake at this time. That disappoints
me personally, but you know, I just see that um kind of investment at this point without more data. Um I think we can get creative with some of this as well. I mean, we've done the jetneys for the past quite a few years. Yeah. I I I think my concern with not with the
jitneys, not with the service is that we don't own it. We don't own the look of the buses. We, you know, any of those things and we've tried some of the bus wraps and that hasn't worked. Um but you know that that has been my sort of disappointment that it doesn't really resonate to be Kate May now. Um are
there other opportunities? Maybe we need to explore what they are. Yeah. So I mean I just wanted to say this was in the bond from last year. It is within the budget amount of the bond but it still doesn't solve the programmic how do we operate? You know it's one thing
to capitalally buy the capital purchase but it's it's how do we function? How do we outsource somebody to operate them for us? You know, those are all the things that, you know, to make that investment today, I think is so what um I know
um deputy mayor, you've been working on uh the uh is do I have another volunteer um from council to maybe work on this? I would really like work on this. Is that is that good? I'm I'm very I have a the part of my heart just so um are you Paul
are you saying we need to we need to reject and then we we could re re I mean the bond is still authorized so it's not like we have to go out and do this today tomorrow we can do it next year the the bond authorization remains how about the
grant that's what I'm concerned the grant might not be there because these these grants are you know There's a lot to talk about. I I think considering it's not even really on the agenda tonight, I I' I'd rather have you two
look at this if you would and um and see if we can come up with a better solution because I I thought we even got more grant money than I thought it was 190. I thought it was a lot. I I thought it was a bit more than that, which is, you know, um So So let let's have uh if
you're okay with that, Absolutely. I'm fine with that. Yep. I I'd like to have the two of you take a look at at that with uh the city manager and see if we can come up with a good plan. But if we have to reject it this evening, then I think that's the only option we really have. Just talking with Chris, we might
I think the next we might be able to squeak it in because April 4th was the the uh bid date. So, we might be able to Is that the opening for I'd rather not take action on it. So
like we can take take a hard look at it. Yeah. I I thought it was after I I thought we were I thought this was I thought we had to act for this. So I didn't think we had enough. Yeah.
Well, I mean mayor even if you don't even if you don't take action the inaction would be the same as Okay. So let's not take action. You mean yes no matter what even if it is not taking action the bids
would not be able to be authorized anyway. So if you uh yeah we'll put together deputy mayor council if you could get together with Paul on this and give give us a recommendation next meeting. Let's look into that that grant again because for some reason I thought it was more than that. But anyway, no
that we we had that was one reason why we took we had Jim Rotella go back to the state and verify the because the grant amount is based on the GVW of the vehicle. So it's it's within that category. Okay. Okay. All right. All
right. Anything else, city manager? No, that's all I had this evening. Thank you. City solicitor, anything this evening? I don't have anything tonight. Thank you. Council, any updates or old business? Okay, moving on to ordinances for introduction. Yes, we have
559-2025, an ordinance amending chapter 7 of the Cape May city code regarding meter parking and incorporating the Cape Island Baptist Church parking lot pursuant to the city use agreement. Do I have a motion? I'll make the motion. Do I have a second? I'll second. Any
questions or comments, council? Roll call. Council member Meyer. Yes. Deputy Mayor McDade. Yes. Council member Bodner. Yes. Council member Baldwin. Yes. Mayor Mullik. Yes. And I know I speak for the rest of council. Thank you to Cape Island Baptist Church for working with the city
on this. I think it's going to be work out good for everybody. So, um, of course, we still have second reading, but thank thank you. Uh, on to ordinances. For second reading, we have 556-2025, an ordinance amending section 368-2 of the city code regarding
prohibited conduct in park and recreation areas to regulate use of the Lafayette Street Park Nature Trails. We have a public hearing on this. Is anyone here wishing to speak on ordinance 556? This is uh this is essentially uh not
allowing bicycles. That's correct. Right. On the new nature trail, correct? and other electronic type vehicles like scooters and stuff. Okay. Do I have a motion, council? I'll make the motion. Do I have a second? A second. Any questions or comments, council? I do,
Mayor. Go ahead, sir. I um I have I have a concern about dogs being on this trail to be honest with you. Um and the second part of the question is if dogs are allowed on this trail, are they allowed on the trail while
school is in session? and possibly using the trail at the same time. There's no time limitation on the It's just the requirement that they remain leashed and that owners pick up after them. And I I mean it's it's I mean no brainer. We for some reason we have to
put it in this ordinance that you have to put up pick up after your dog, which is it's just another addition to why I don't think dogs are necessarily appropriate in this location. Um it's going out into the wetlands. We clearly have a uh an ecosystem that's, you know,
precious to a lot of us. You know, I think uh having dogs out there and possibly seeing animals that they're not used to, possibly even a deer, can cause them to go berserk. Uh we we're already building a facility for dogs adjacent to
this location. I think there should be more thought putting put into that. Um, and then, you know, does the school want dogs uh going out behind their uh, you know, secure zone? I just think there's
a number of questions there. And, uh, I I I think we could we could table this. We have time to table this because uh, I would like to have more input from what the board of education would want us to do. Um, they're very much they're
the biggest champions in supporting this project. uh after all. And uh I just that's just my concern, you know. It's not there's no dog bad dogs out there. They're just bad dog owners that you know what and people come to Kate May and they forget to pack their brains,
you know. So I just think it's a concern of mine. Well, and also as you're talking about children, you know, dogs coming up, you know, dogs can be large, children can be small. I mean, you know, that interaction, I mean, it's not I mean, the square the the the width on
the trail is what? Six feet. Six feet. That's not a lot of personal distance. You know, just to say if you are someone who might be intimidated by a dog or, you know, there's not there's no place for you to go, you know, on a sidewalk you can walk out into the street or
something like that. I mean, I I do appreciate your concern. It was one of the things that when this came up, I wasn't necessarily enamored with it. I'm thinking six feet is not a lot of personal space. If you're trying to maneuver, it's not like you can go anywhere. So, you're either standing
still and waiting for the dog owner to pass or, you know, um, as you said, you know, hoping that everyone um, plays by the rules and acts accordingly. So, you know, I'm not I'm I'm not sure what the answer is, but I certainly appreciate your concern. So, I'm I'm just saying I
can okay I mean I can be okay with uh voting yes on this. I just think that there might be a chance or a position that we're going to be in where we have to change back. That's Mhm. Yeah. There I mean there's something to be said for that. It is the when um this first came
up and it was discussed um thinking in terms of candidly, you know, the people that are going to be out there and um that people are going to be out there and and you taking care of their dogs in the right in the right way. But you do have
to plan for the worst case scenario unfortunately as well. and the fact that it's also going to be used by um maybe by children during during the day, it does throw another element into this as well. And we do have a dog park there. So, there's there's something to be said
for for that as far as um you go in a lot of different places in Kate May and you have an opportunity to take your dog. So, I guess you know, it's a it's a good question as well even to bring up at this point to say, you know, should we tap the brakes and say maybe this is a place that that's just
Do we really want that to be to be here at this particular location just for the for the reasons that you raised? And I think the elementary school is going to use this as an extension of their of their school day or you know the environmental science classrooms,
you know, walking trails, things like that. So I I fully understand what you're saying, Council Member Meyer. Um what what does that do at this point? I mean, it substantially changes Sure. We would if if we wanted to take that part
of it out, um it would be a change. We'd republish and then we'd have another second reading. Can I can I make a make make a recommendation on that? Um I'd much rather pass this this evening because we're looking at a May a couple weeks opening and I think we
need to have some ground rules in place. No bikes. No. Plus, Plus they I think I have to order the sign, right? Yeah. I think there should be more things on there than just
rollerblades and talking about no drug school zone everything. You know, signs. Are there signs posted in that area already? I'm just I personally haven't been Well, I I just I go hiking a lot. So, they you
have all the nose Yes. pictures, you know, and then you also there's a disclaimer under there. Anything not mentioned is also Oh, sorry. Sorry, folks. So, Mr. Gillan to and
mayor, you would like for us to pass this this evening because of the timing, but then it's opening. I mean, the other issue with dogs are I mean, the reality is enforcement. You know, it's different. Like on our beaches, we have beach tag people at each beach entrance. It's easy
for them to stop, leave at this is an unmanned location. It's it's it's practically, you know, it's hard for I'll say law enforcement to enforce no dogs on the mall, which which they
almost can't enforce. And you know, you know, I I don't disagree with everything, but I'm I'm just looking at the practicality. What's the practicality of that? And so, can I Yes, Chief. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. I
mean, I just want to say, not all the time in Cape May Point and almost every other time I walk that there, there's somebody with a dog or even two dogs. I'm not the type of person say, "Oh, you know, you're not supposed to bring dogs here." But I'm just saying that if an incident happens that gives us extra uh
protection for ourselves and for and for the person that possibly gets in injured. I'm saying let's vote for this at the next meeting. Let's let's amend the the ordinance. Then we can solve both things. I I think we should vote for this tonight and if
we need to update the ordinance, I'm fine with talking about that. Um go ahead, Chief. Well, I just want to weigh in uh just just from the enforcement side of things moving forward as we create this open space for the public and we move forward for the police
department and the park. Will we allow dogs in the park? I think we should not. You have a dog park there, you know, because it's just going to create more bite issues, more clean up and mess. Some people clean up, some people don't. I've got little dogs and big dogs. I clean up,
but not everyone does. So I think if you restrict if if you're going to restrict it eventually for the park itself, I think you should restrict it for that walking trail as well. There is a bike I mean a dog park right next door to it. It's not like we're saying no, we hate dogs. We're making an available space
right next to the botchi ball court and it'll be very beautiful for the dogs and that's where they should be held responsibly. That's just from the enforcement side of things. That's my way in. I think it's definitely a hazard if you let them roam free and because I'm trying to think like the county park you're not allowed to bring your dogs to the county park. No, you know I mean you
have because of the ducks and the geese and you know like I think someone said about new animals back there there's sal there's different things back on that walking trail that these they're going to be chasing and losing dogs. Someone doesn't like it. We we're sorry but that's that's my way in. Sorry. So chief just a question and somewhat related. We
were we talked we touched on the security cameras. Will there be a security camera at each end of this entrance to these nature trails? I believe that's a phase that we're we as we move forward. I I'm not asking. I'm just There should be. Yes. I think as as we do when once we look at the police
department and put the cameras in, we're going to attach that probably if the manager allows to the park itself. We manage, you know, you'll see in your demo next week how much we can manage. You can have up to 900 cameras on the system. I mean, I just think, you know, it is a I would say definitely at the entrance because, you know, he's
definitely at the entrance and if we as we move forward, I don't know if there's power on the trail or not. I don't know if there's power out there because that makes it easier, but if we're running manager, if we're running power or anything, lighting out there for the entrance, there's no lights, right? So, there's light there'll be something in the park we can grab, but and there's only one entrance to the trail. Okay.
But I'm just I would absolutely say yes, the entrance going into the trail. We don't want to monitor people with their actions going through, but at least something happens. We saw the face of someone walking. Exactly. That's what my point is, you know, it's or at least the camera in the park that points there of of that. Okay. Thank you. Y I don't want to complicate this any further. He's
going one thing missing and and just so chief's here too. So we're we're amending prohibited conduct, but there's a whole section that goes right before this that's not in the ordinance because it's really long, but we're not touching
that. and that contains a whole list of A1 [Music] through 31 of prohibited conduct in parks. Okay. So, it's not like the park won't have any rules if we don't adopt this tonight. So, I want to
make that clear, too. what the baseline what we would have if if council tabled this to or amended it and tabled you know to the next meeting for second reading removing the dog portion and
preserve you know adopting this don't ride a bike or anything else on there it's for pedestrians part of it for another meeting what we'd be left be left with is the standard conduct governing all parks in the Kate May which is already on the books
And among that is uh language about don't ride a bicycle without reasonable regard for the safety of others. So we might have to tolerate two weeks of people riding bikes, but they they can't be out there doing wheelies
on the trails. Um so that I just bring that up so that it's not like we don't have rules for the park. We're just making specific ones for the trail. So, I would be comfortable that there's at least something on the books for this area. Um, it is a Kate May park and it
would be covered by these. We're just This is a specific one targeted towards the trails. So, um, with that context that might kind of inform what council may do here. My one of my least favorite topics is dogs on the mall. And we hear this
all the time. And I hear from tourists that write the mayor of Kate May and say, "My dog in a stroller was kicked off the mall or my dog on a leash who's very behaved was kicked off the mall and I'm not coming back to Kate May." I So I
get those. Um I'm a dog owner myself. Uh they're also not allowed on the prominade as we all know which is a wonderful place to walk your dog but you're not allowed up there with your dog which again I understand and I understand them all but I do think there is a nice thing to be able to say to
people when they complain about their dog and I do say this to people that they complain about the dog not being I say look there's Kate May's over two and a half square miles and you can go with your dog to just about everywhere except
the prominade and the mall. Um, I think there's something to be said about this trail being a safe place for people to walk with their dog. Um, because I I do get that, you know, where else are you walking your dog? You may be walking
them, you know, basically in streets all around town and, you know, as we all know in the summertime that can be pretty hectic. Um, so the dog park's there. So, I I understand that, but I do think there's another side to this that says it would be nice to have a location
that you can safely walk your dog outside of any vehicle or traffic. Um, no bicycles or anything else. So, um, I I honestly see both sides of this, Mr. Meyer. I I hear your points certainly. I think obviously the problem always
becomes misbehaved dogs, but to me I think that's something, you know, you kind of try to address on an individual basis if you have a repeat offender or something, you know. I don't know if I'm complicating the issue anymore, but
you don't want a repeater. You don't want a single. Sure. Sure. But to access the trail head, you're really going through that park area. Yeah. And and that and so we have a real conflict because now we have pe we have people with dogs in the park that we say
that they can't and then to access it. I'm still about the the sort of the physical safety issue and and just the lack of a lot of space for people to be able to move around. Um, and I understand sort of the desire to give
people a location, but we wouldn't have the conversations we have around the issues of the dogs on the mall and the dogs on the prominade if we didn't have people who weren't respectful of what the rules are. Um, and I know that we're it may seem like we're punishing
everyone for the behavior of the the few, but um, with children involved, I just I think that that's a really hard thing for me to, you know, see a large dog coming up, you know, and and small
children in front of them. There's no place for them to go. There's not like you can pull them aside and, you know, it's six feet. So I that's what I visualize in my mind. I can't, you know, may never happen, but I just I kind of
see that as a a potential concern as a that a parent would would would freeze. So, I don't know the answer other than I think we need to pass it tonight so that we have something on the books. Yeah. And then have and I think ultimately
let's my recommendation is let's pass this so we we have something on the books. But uh certainly would entertain any changes to this at this point and and have an an amended ordinance. Right.
If you want to revisit the dog portion of it or any other portion right afterwards, do an amendment. All right. Well, I'm committed to doing Is that good? Fine. That's fine. Okay. Yep. Okay. Okay. There. Oh, no. We already had a public hearing, didn't we? Right. Do we
have a Do we have a motion? Yes, we have both. We have both. Okay. Okay. Roll call. Council member Meyer. Yes. Deputy Mayor McDade. Yes. Council member Bodner. Yes. Council member Baldwin. Yes. Mayor Mullik. Yes.
All right. Next we have 557-2025. An ordinance authorizing the grant of a conservation restriction easement to the New Jersey D for property known as block 10,000 um 1,000 uh lots 60.01, 61.01, 01 62.01 63.01
63.02 63.03 in connection with the Kate May Seaw Wall Madison to Wilmington Avenue project with a public hearing tonight. Council Okay. Is anyone here wishing to speak on ordinance 557? Ma'am,
please if you would. Thank you. [Music] I live at Victoria's Walk and Hi, ma'am. I'm sorry. Could you state your name and address for the record? And you can move that if you'd like. Speak right into that, please. Okay. Okay. Yep. Um, my
name is Patricia Reagan. I live at 1621 Beach Avenue, unit 2011, Victoria's Walk. And I've had conversations with some of the other residents and with a Mr. Lee Snyder who lives on Wilmington
Avenue. I believe it's one Wilmington Avenue and he has asked me to present some of his opinions because he couldn't be here tonight. Some of his comments. He's a engineer and he says he has talked to the engineers from the core of
engineers involved in the project and recently to the team of engineers and designers from Collier Engineering. He he thinks that replacing the existing seaw wall with a wall 8 to 9 ft higher
will only create more flooding during major storms because any water breaching the wall will remain trapped and each additional breach will again in his opinion raise the water level and cause more damage than what we experienced
during Sandy. The sand will settle to the bottom, enter the catch basins, and clog the pumps, whose sole purpose is to pump the overflow back into the ocean. He says he's had conversations with the engineers and he was asking could they
design something that they why the design could not include a stainless steel flapper or a check valve so that when it's pressed closed when the water is pouring against the wall but it opens when the water level
on the landside is higher than the ocean allowing the water to return to the ocean. He says that this principle is used utilized at the bay of funy and if anyone on the planning board agree with his thinking he think that the concept should be presented so that the
engineers in attendance from the core and collers could respond. Now I'm not an engineer but I kind of understand what he's saying but do we have engineers here? Could I just really quickly u really this ordinance has nothing to do with the what you the seaw
wall itself. I just want to be clear and I'm happy to talk about it. It's not that's not the issue. I just this is um basically the um area that needs to be dedicated to be able to do the work through the D. Correct. Um so uh having
said that I just just want to be clear that that this this is basically allows the project to occur but not the project itself. It's a condition of it's a condition of the NJP permit right there's mitigation required. So this is about like plantings along the proposed
seaw wall in connection with uh the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. Right. I I can see that when the water comes over, it would be trapped though, right? No. How would it get back? So, just as this past weekend when the rain
when it rained, it rained on that side of the seaw wall, it went into the storm basins and then was discharged. So, just as if I mean if after the seaw wall is built, if that seaw wall is breached, we have many
big problems. The least of which will be a little bit of extra water that will be sitting at the surface because at that point there will be we'll have lots of other problems with a lot of structures. But what I can tell you is any water that breaches over
top of that will drain off in its natural course just as if it when it rains today. And and what about the sand with the pumps? Because the sand, it wouldn't affect the pumps, but you know, just as sand comes in today, that that would be cleared off and taken care of.
Kind of reiterate to what you're saying just to at 8t higher right now. This has been since Sandy that we've been designing this just, you know, to be clear. So, this has been over 10 years. And I know uh some of the folks
in in in your area were really concerned when the Army Corps's project was quite literally a 13t wall. Okay. And so we we worked extremely hard to soften this to to get this to be the same protection level, but not just some cinder block
wall on on Beach Avenue or a cinder block covered with brick to make it look nicer, but a big brick wall, right? So, we basically slowly sloped it back,
kept the timber, right, the timber uh uh facade uh off of the street. Slowly slope back with a dune and that would have dune planting. So, frankly, it would look similar to how it looks today. Very nice. And then a prominade and then a a seating wall. But
that seating wall is 20 to 30 feet depending on where you are on Beach Avenue off of the street. So it's it's set back. And when you look at and we've had multiple um demonstrations of this and everything, but when you look at
that seating wall, it's actually below the height of some of the bushes that currently exist there today. But to get to to the point of the pumping, if this wall was in place, which increases the height, I think 13
feet in total, right? It if this were to be breached, that means up and down the our co up and down our coastline in Cape May will have been breached as well. Because if it's breaching at what basically becomes
almost our highest point at that point, it's almost going to be breaching everywhere, which I mean it's going to be that's utter disaster for Kate May. So, will we be able to pump that water out? We won't be able to pump that water out anywhere. Okay. I mean, I mean, I'm
just I just the and I about the flapper. I thought that the flapper makes all the sense in the world, by the I mean, we've looked at flappers in in other locations for regular coastal Makes sense to me. Storm drains. We've we've installed them on uh Texas Avenue. So, his point
absolutely is true. And um I don't know if you remember, we used to get a lot of flooding around Rigggins, the gas station there. We replaced the flapper at Texas Avenue and have had far less. we it's still you know full moon high tide we still might get some water but
that flapper has prevented some of the backflow of some of the water so I mean he's absolutely correct I just to reiterate what Paul's saying is if you had over topping of this new wall you will have I mean we we might not have a
town all right thank you thank you Stacy Shan 928 Columbia I just want comment on her comment. Anybody that was here on Sandy knows that when that water comes over that wall, it runs downhill to Frog Hollow where it's pumped out.
So, it really is no problem with sand because at that point, it's already been laid off into the street on the way down. That's true. Thank you. Anyone else on this? But we appreciate your concern certainly. Uh thank you. Um anyone else on this
ordinance? Okay, roll call. Do we have a motion? We don't. Do I have a motion on this ordinance? Motion. Do I have a second? I'll second. Roll call. Council member Meyer? Yes. Deputy Mayor McDade? Yes. Council member Bodner? Yes. Council
member Baldwin? Yes. Mayor Mullik? Yes. Next, we have the public portion on the resolutions only. Okay. Do I have if there's anyone looking to comment on the resolutions listed? Stacy Shan 928 Columbia. Um, one quick
question for that ordinance that you're you passed for the park. I think one of the most important thing is that you put on no smoking because you have children there and you want people having marijuana smoking in there or anything else and that's more to me it's more of an issue than the dogs are. I think
that's I think that's in the as Chris iterated I think that's in that other section. So we'll have no smoking sign just yeah just mainly on the sign I think is the most important. Yeah we'll we'll have no smoking. Um my question right now is just around um the report on the quality of life workg groupoup
report. I guess I'm talking about that because I know when Paul developed this workg group, one of the disappointments was that there's no public interaction with the quality of life that pertains to the public and it was centered around the people that work in city hall which
most of them don't live in Kate May. So my comment is what are you going to be taking any suggestions from the public for this quality of life group that you're working with? I take comments from the public every day about the quality of life and and I don't know
where this misnomer started. It's not centered around the employees at city hall. The employees of city hall are charged with improving the quality of life for the residents and visitors of Kate May city. you know, whether it's code enforcement, zoning, fire
prevention, police department, myself and administration, we're all charged with improving the quality of life for the residents and visitors of Kate May City. That's what we do. That's what we discuss and that's what we look to do. We're not we're not
looking to improve the quality of life for us. We're looking to improve the quality of life for the residents and visitors for the city. And that's what we do. Well, a couple times I brought up suggestions, you know, and it was shot down by you
and that one of them was the fact that we wanted a the box put back for water bills and tax and I didn't I talk to you about that. You did you said you're getting it, but that was after I went up here three times and you told me you were not doing it. But not not every not every discussion, you know, we
discuss things and some things are taken upon, some things are not. And it that's just how things are. and and I did get back to you and say now that the job's done, I've got a spot for those boxes to get moved and they're going to be moved.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else on resolutions this evening, Mr. Ralph? Good evening, Jules Graph 1010 New York Avenue. It's really a a part of revolution the resolution 176 for approved bills and I just want to make a
comment that I think it's great that you've made an application for a caffer permit for the 4200 lineal feet of of u of seaw wall. I that's a correct statement I believe. Yeah, we've received a caffer permit for
the seaw wall. Okay. In in reference to that, it appears as that that that's really the beginning of this project actually gaining some some momentum over the next few years to become a reality.
I think less than a few years. Okay. One of the things that I think is really important for the public to understand is what this project is going to cost. How much is it going to cost in total? And then how are the costs going
to be allocated? Do we do we as taxpayers pick it all up? I don't think so because I there's been conversations about grants from the federal or government or one of the agencies or low interest loans or grants or low interest
loans from the state. Certainly the county it's on a county road. They will be party part of this project. But we've not seen a definitive um estimate, and I realize it would only be an estimate of what these costs will
be and who's going to bear the the brunt of those costs. From the taxpayer standpoint, I think it's important that the taxpayer understands that you can't build a $50 million project, if that's what it is, and not incur some long-term
serious debt. And then how much is that debt and how is it going to be paid off? We as a as a as as a body that's going to have to bear these these bills and our next two or three generations should know what that is going to mean in terms
of increase in tax costs on an annual basis going forward for the next 20 40 years. I don't know whether it's been forecast as to how you would bond this kind of a project, but I think that's one of the items that should be brought before the public so that when city
council is asked to make a decision to go forward with this project and commit to it, they know what it is that they've committed this community to for the next 30 to 40 years. So, I'm I'm a cost person. I don't get involved in doing
anything in my life. When I built projects, I knew exactly what I estimated at the beginning and I would look at those project costs throughout the project so that I could, you know, maybe change course if I needed to, but we need to know what those numbers are
going to be and when the opposition Mr. Rous. Yeah. I mean, I think we can kind of answer your question. That's right. Um, uh, the city manager can speak to the estimated cost, but we we have been approved for a $25 million grant from
FEMA. So, that's huge. I mean, 25 million. We have, I think it's $4.8 million from the county, uh, committed. Um, and our engineer has been working off of those numbers, you know, as as
somewhat of a budget. Um, I don't know if you have the numbers in front of you, Paul, but the uh est he he he knows those amounts and and has been working uh and frankly as part of our FEMA um application obviously they asked those
exact questions themselves. What's it going to cost to do? So he he has they've had estimates and have worked with FEMA and I don't know if you have any numbers Paul or if if I mayor if you don't it's okay right now but I think it's great that you're able to say well
we got a grant for this much money and then there's comments made for some money coming from another source. I'd like to see in a line. I'd like to see exactly who's putting up or who's saying that they will put up or who's saying maybe we will put up so we can look in
front of us and see what it is that this thing is going to cost. So, so would I at some point gentleman in his back room and say what is it going to cost the taxpayers? So, so would anyone up here believe me. Now, we've shown obviously
the the county amount that we've received. Now, that's been about two years or something. So, it's been a while. Um, but we've shown that at a public meeting. Um, at a council meeting. Um, we've shown FEMA uh accepting the 25 million, but we don't
have the check yet. So, I I don't want to. Is it in the mail? I don't know. That's so but that's why you haven't seen th those numbers like on a on a line because we don't have it yet. So I I hear you and I'm hoping that in the
next two months which is what we're hearing. I don't know for sure but within the next two months we are approved for that 25 million and the check is in the mail. And once that occurs, I mean just to be clear, we will
then have exactly that line by line with the estimates from the engineer and then we'll bid out the project. Now the project as you know we don't know what the bidding will come in at and and at that point we'll have to make a a sound decision. But do you have anything? I
fully understand once it's bid it's you know there you know then you know what it really costs. Correct. And then you might have to go back and re-evaluate exactly where the allocation of costs come in. I understand it's just I would like to see a defined number given to the public and with the understanding
that at some point when it goes goes before this committee council is going to be voting and committing to the community for the next 30 or 40 years. Y thank you very much. Absolutely. And we agree and will Okay, that's great. So maybe within two months we might get a
complete outline as to uh what the what the funding funding once the checks in a certified mail I I will I will do we'll do that. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Thank you Stacy Shan 928. On Jules's response
though, wasn't that $25 million? Isn't that a lot of grants and loans that are part of that? the 25 million of grant from this the federal government. Okay. Typically we would be our cost share would be 25% of that 25% of the of the five of the 25 million or no yeah 25% of
the 25 million 25 million was the 75% of their cost is a 75 the 25 million is a 75% of the project cost. Okay. So we would be 25% as the mayor said we have 3 million of that 25% cost covered from
the county. So, um, but a lot of a lot of those final numbers won't aren't known because the design hasn't been completed yet. Okay. But what was the um thing last week that you you voted on the fact that it was a loan that you were going to get? Was that for So that a different project? That was for the water. So that
was the water. That was for the I bank. That was for the I bank. What was the I bank for the loans for the the D South? Okay. Thank you, Moren. Anyone else on this uh on the consent
agenda? Okay. Do I have a motion? Do we have anything to remove from the consent agenda? Council, are we good? Other than council member Bodner abstaining from the minutes. Anything. Council, do I have a motion? I'll make
the motion. Do I have a second? I'll second. Roll call. Council member Meyer. Yes. Deputy Mayor McDade. Yes. Council member Bodner, abstain on the minutes. Vote yes on the resolutions. Okay. Council member Baldwin. Yes. Mayor
Malik. Yes. New business. Okay. On to new business. City solicitor. Any new business? Nothing tonight, mayor. Thank you. City manager. Um I did have some other numbers, but the meeting's been long. Um, just want
to announce that the city's holding a citywide job fair. So, it's not just for the city, but uh, all the businesses are gathering at convention hall tomorrow from 4 to 7 Convention Hall for a job fair. So, anybody out there looking for interested work within the city, all a
lot of businesses, restaurants, retail shops, the city itself will have a booth there. So, if if you need a job, come on down. We've got people looking for jobs. Great. All right, city clerk. Yes, just um spreading the word that there is a
property tax relief information session scheduled at the Crest, excuse me, Crest Arts Pavilion at 6301 Ocean Avenue in Wildwood Crest. This is a virtual presentation from the Division of Taxation on the new PAS1 book and
qualifying for property tax relief in New Jersey. If anybody is interested in attending that, that is not my wheelhouse, but I'm sure if you have questions, you can reach out to the burrow of Wildwood Crest or to our own tax collector's office. Yes, there is actually a phone number. So, if you're
interested in participating, I think it is you can do so virtually. Okay. Um because I did look at it. Um and just very briefly, it is a combined program for tax relief in the state for the anchor program, the senior freeze, um
and uh property relief. So they're doing one application versus maybe any others that you have participated in. Um so there's forms and instructions. Um, but if you the the best thing to do is to participate in this and they have the uh
phone number on the link that you sent out that you can call and you don't have to register, but I guess it'll tell you how you can participate virtually. Okay. Yeah. Great. When is that? Oh, I'm sorry. This Tuesday, May 13th at 10 a.m.
Okay, great. Thank you. Anything else, city clerk? No, that's it. Thank you very much, council members. Uh deput deputy mayor. Uh yes. I just want to update um on the Lafayette Street housing um property uh for the
affordable housing. Uh the three-bedroom unit is finally uh rented. Um the tenant moved in May 1st. Um and just to give you a little bit of background, there were over 800 applications for the two two units. Um they reached out to 374
applicants. Uh this was a very this is a very detailed process. Uh there's a lot of information that's needed uh to evaluate the applicants um their uh creditworthiness uh job history etc. So it does take some time. The two-bedroom
unit which is the very low uh income that is still uh they are still vetting through those applicants. So when we get an update on from um Triad Associates on that I'll report back. But um it's uh yeah uh it's been a a bit of a process but we're finally making some progress
which is good. Just reiterating 800 applicants for one a part uh for two units to two units is amazing. Um sorry about that. Uh Council Councilwoman Baldwin, just two quick things. Um the opening
center of the the community center that was just a wonderful um city event. Uh, I'm glad that that's opened. Um, everybody who put effort into that, um, thank you. And then, uh, Jazz Festival, uh, is coming up May the 16th through
the 18th. And a big headliner here this year, uh, Samra Joy, who two years ago when she was 23 years old, uh, won the Grammy. It's fabulous. Um, but there's going to be some really, really good headliners here in the city. That's awesome. So, that's all, mayor. Thank
you. Thank you, Councilman Bodner. On May 15th is going to be the next uh beach cleanup. It's going to be on the Queen Street Beach at 3:00. Um supplies are provided to help clean up the beach. I know the last one was very successful
at um at Poverty Beach just a couple weeks ago. So, look forward to seeing people there. Um, additionally, later that day at 5:00 p.m., the citizenship awards ceremony will be taking place at the Washington Street Mall. Oh, that's
great. Thank you. Okay, Councilman Meyer. Yes. Thank you, Mayor. Um, I'm just going to be a broken record to everybody. The trees have bloomed. The leaves are growing. Look out for the tree of heaven. The tree of heaven is where the uh the lantern flies, you know, are attracted to it. So, if you
have any in your on your property, the city got a $20,000 grant. We want to help you remove those trees because the removal is expensive. And if you see them on public property, let us know, too. That's great. Thank you, Mr. Meyer. And I just want to echo uh the comments
and thank uh the council and and uh city manager and deputy city manager, all uh the department of public works, uh recreation department, all worked really really hard on getting the community center together. What a really wonderful event to open it up. If you haven't had
a chance, go check it out. It's really great gathering space. Um there's a couple exercise bikes in there, card tables, little couches, TVs. It's it's a really nice little space. Um, and also that same day, uh, I was there with, uh, the city manager and and police chief
for the and and, uh, deputy mayor for the, um, Kate May cares, uh, event, um, which was really another heartwarming, uh, nice, um, work with our local youth here in the city of Kate May. So, that that was a wonderful event and kudos to
all the volunteers in that group. Um, with that, I'll open it up for public comment. Anyone wishing to speak, please come to the microphone, state your name and address for the record. Uh, Peter Cole, 1075. Are you paying attention?
Sorry. I I know all of your addresses by heart at this point, guys. 1075 Michigan Avenue. Five minutes. Five minutes. The clock is running, Peter. Right. I I'm definitely not talking on
behalf of the taxpayers tonight. I'm talking on behalf of Sims. Sim Sinclair, his name is, and he's a cockaoo. He has been waiting for
years to have a stroll around the park in the country. He can't go to the prominard. He's never been to the prominard. I've told him, I said, "You can't go there cuz the cops will get you."
And he can't go in the mall. The same reason. The the the cops again are going to get you, boy. So, just hold on. But tell me something. Is this park pathway is it all elevated?
Yeah. All of it. So you can't step off the side. No, it is half of it's elevated. Half of it's not. Well, I don't understand that this decision you made here tonight at all. I mean, just to be clear, I because I I
want to hear you, but tonight we passed the ordinance as is, which is allowing for leash dogs, and we said that we're going to have a further Yeah. leash. Just goes to show I've been sitting here and I didn't hear a thing. No, no. I think what you heard is correct, though.
I just I didn't want to I'm not trying to throw you off your game here because I understand what you're saying. Uh it was stated that we would look at this again perhaps to amend it to not allow dogs so that we have a further conversation coming. Well, Sims likes
being on its leash, so he tells me that anyway. Yes. Well, and Sims will have a lovely new dog park. He was hoping that the lovely entrance way to the walkway would say welcome S Sims Sinclair walkway. But um anyway, I've made my
point. I'm I just hope that uh we will allow dogs there because we all know about the rest of it. Prominard. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Now you can sit down. Jules Rous New York Avenue. I hate to
beat this drum again. I've been a dog lover all my life. Also a bicyclist up until I fell. Dog owner. It's like not allowed to have a bike ride anymore. I've got a new hip. However, we've got as a city to make a
decision whether we're going to enforce the dog bicycle rule on the prominade and and and uh Washington Street Mall. Either enforce it or get rid of it. We were I was up there with Peter today. Both of
them had bicycles and dogs in both places. Just just to be clear though, Mr. Rous, and there might be some l like a little bit of lag and confusion on this, city council did update not the mall, but the prominade and the beach to make inseason
and offseason rules. And right now, we're still off season, which means bikes can be up there and dogs with leashes and clean up after your dog. It's not a free-for-all up there. So if you saw in other words people with dogs on leashes and bikes on the
prominade right now that's permitted under the code until I think May 15th is around when it shifts to in season. It's just you know t time is coming on and we will soon be under the new regul what I call the permanent regulations. It's
just it's it's just um I don't know I like regulations and I like them adhered to. It's just very very easy once you know the regulations and you'll follow them. We've got a number of uh what I call accommodations in this community and they make it clear that dogs are
that they allow dogs and that they're permitted in town. Well, that's a that's not a na natural or a complete statement. Um I I have a question u uh of our clerk. Any idea where we stand
with with the merkantal licenses percentage wise? How many people do? Off the top of my head, I haven't checked in for a few days. I think last week we issued like around 900 what um ballpark 2/3 maybe
13 out of 13. We had about over 1300 last year. Yeah. Um we're still getting a lot in. We have had a lot of people who are not giving us full complete renewal packages particularly the insurance has been a nightmare. um 3
years, we're 3 years into this, the state required insurance and it's like pulling teeth. So, we're still navigating through an influx of paperwork at this point and trying to uh see who's missing what and who owes us what. At what point do you do you say
you're not in compliance? You can't open your door. Oh, no. Nobody gets a mercantile license issued if they are missing those items. So they should not be operating without a mercantile license. I think it'd be well for the public to for the for the merkantile community to understand that they do
need a license to be in business. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um I will say we still are again we're waiting through a lot of paper still. Um so once we kind of navigate through all that, we'll have a better idea of who is still, you know,
struggling as far as compliance goes. We'll we'll shift more into compliance once we finish going through this. We had an influx of paperwork at the very end right before the deadline naturally. Just make one other comment about trolleys.
Um, I think before you get too far involved in this, I would suggest that um that you talk with some people that have had experience in managing uh fair-free trolley systems, not unlike
what the county has offered, and inquire as to what it is like to have to manage that type of system. It is a great deal more than I think many of us recognize. I've been dealing with trying to find out more and more details about that.
I'm not prepared to bring it here this evening because you're you're going to work on that. It's just that you know the the county has has a system, the uh the uh furry has a system u and they're all using internal
combustion engines. So think about that as as as well as going when you're going through this operational what you're going to do when you find out you can't replace a battery driven vehicle right quickly. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Hello. Uh my name is Bob Edgler, five Jackson Street. Good evening. Um, I wanted to say that uh I've been retired three or four year four years now and uh living on Jackson Street, I've noticed that uh when people come up into town,
they come up Lafayette, especially people who have never been here, they come up Lafayette, they get the collars and they either make a right or a left. Most of them make the left, which is great. And if you notice as you come down that street between the beautiful homes, you can literally see the water
in your car. And I wanted to point out about the proposed bathroom. While I think it's a great idea, is there possibility to have it located between Pur and Jackson Central rather than right at the end of Jackson Street? Because if you all take a ride
down there and you you'll see what I mean. You'll see you you're you're all them homes you're taking at. It's really impressive. uh when you drive down the street. Yeah, the the location was going to be up by the mall, not down at the Oh,
beachfront waterfront. I'm sorry if I I apologize. I should I thought I thought I I thought Yeah, cuz I'm looking at I said that looks is that the prominent I thought you meant Jack the street at the at the beach. No, no. Up. Yeah. Where exactly are you talking about? right there in where one of the um
loading zone is and part of the loading zone we would use for the bathroom. So you want to put a $350,000 bathroom a block away from another bathroom. It's a block and a half. It's on the other end of the mall. No, there's one in the middle, right? No, it's it's Okay. I I
have no more issue. Thank you. Thank you. H Street and and uh whatever that road's called. It's only a block away from where you're proposing it. Behind I I just I'm speaking my mind out loud. I just hope some of you people are
thinking too. I mean this the the the bathroom that we're talking about here in my personal opinion selfcleing it looks pretty futuristic for me to me. Uh it's just a historic part of town and
um I think we need more bathrooms in Kate May. I I tell you what, I took a walk with my uh mother on the prominade. She wants me to help her walk some more and uh so we'll do the prominade. That's perfect because the bathrooms will be open. The one by the cove wasn't even open. So I'm I mean if we have the
bathrooms, let's open them. And two, let's if we're going to put another bathroom in Kate May, let's not put it what is that like 150 steps away from another bathroom. Just that's a thought, sir. Uh yes. Uh my name is uh Peter
Garcia and uh my wife and I own 705 Carney Avenue and have been paying taxes to Kate May since 1984. I I have comments on four topics, but I'm really only here because of the first one. Um the first topic relates to
the exit from Soldiers and Sailors Park to Colombia Avenue. A year ago, almost to the day, I think it was May the 7th actually. Uh I requested that warning be for drive to drivers and pedestrians be posted at the cross at the crosswalk
exiting soldier soldiers in Sailor's Park. uh on to Colombia Avenue. I went to several safety meetings after that with the encouragement and really kind assistance of uh Council Member Jerger and also uh presented my concerns
verbally and um and and then in writing and he encouraged me at all all three times. Uh but to date there's no added warning at that has been posted. As I mentioned back then, a neighbor of mine
was severely injured, hospitalized, and could have been killed at that crosswalk. Her injuries were sustained on on September the 3rd uh 2021. A person coming out of that of the
exit from Soldiers and Salis Park uh uh goes directly onto Columbia Avenue goes directly into the traffic lane. Uh there there is a no parking buffer lane. One step out and you're in it if a car comes
by. Uh a lapse in attention can really be deadly. And I don't know if there have been other accidents. This is the one I've focused on all these years because I was when I went there after she got hurt, I was shocked at how dangerous it can be, especially when in the summertime. Um it's a very unique
hazardous crosswalk. If nothing else, I I suggest that when you pass there, please stop, look, think, and before you cross uh there and then warn all your loved ones to to do the same. Can can I ask you one question? I should probably
know the answer. I just don't. You went to the bicycle and pedestrian meetings. Do you know if it got included in the um master plan that they were working on? It was that corridor was included in that review. But I did I did actually
speak with uh him I think was it? No, two days I forget earlier this earlier this week I think on Saturday and I was actually out I was actually out with the public works superintendent um yesterday and uh we're going to order we looked at
several of the intersection because Columbia Avenue has several crosswalks. So, we're we're looking to add several uh pedestrian crossing signs on Long Columbia to slow the traffic down on there to uh make make motorists aware of the pedestrian crossings. So, we are
ordering signs for that loca those location. That exit is unique. I mean, if you're on the other side of the street, you got the parking buffer lane come out before you hit the traffic lane. I remember you bringing this up and my understanding was it was going to be
included in the ma the bikewalk Kate May we call it but basically the master plan in a year now and no there's no added warning and I know it's a you know it's a touchy spot I mean historic really historical area whatever sign is put there probably should be looked at by
HPC you know but but it seems like a simple sign one side says tells a pedestrian stop and think and the other side tells the driver, uh, you know, stop for pedestrians and crosswork or coming out of the coming out of the park. But, uh, and it it doesn't have to
be in the middle of the street. There's no room there to be in the middle of the street. There's a there's a grassy patch at the end of the park there where I think you could put something there. Okay. Um, but can I go on? Yeah, please, please. Ju just to answer one other
thing. the the master planning does take a while and I and I I'm I I appreciate your patience. But as you said before, the season is coming and yeah, traffic whips through, you know, Memorial Day. I mean, I as I said, I don't know if there have been other accidents, but it's it's
a it didn't exist before the park was rebuilt, okay? because you couldn't pass through it like you know one of the resolutions we passed today was ba is based on the bike walk plan which is that the bridge going across on um 1 Avenue too I just want you to know we're
I think that was the first real step that we've taken based on the walk bike plan but in any event sounds like the city manager's on it so hopefully you'll have some signage out there soon then okay continue I'm sorry second I would
like to comment on the hazard of being doored while biking. Uh getting doored happens when a driver without looking opens a door into the biker's path or um skater or skateboarder, who knows what,
but it's I was actually a victim of such an accident and it took months to recover from my injuries. Um getting doored can also be deadly. Uh, I asked that the city develop a two-sided handout about the size of a parking
ticket, uh, which can be given to bikers when they rent bikes and put on cars by volunteers uh, to warn drivers, you know, every now and then. But uh one side can warn the driver, one one side
can warn the biker, but maybe a little picture could be put on or cartoons showing the door opening and the bike hitting and uh and bikers are often drivers, too. So, if they could give be given one of these when they when they rent a bike, you know, maybe it'll help
because the the the bike lanes and the parking lanes in Cape May are just ripe for this accident. And I can't I don't know how many there have been but I know I was one but I don't know how many you've had but and my third comment relates to the memorial benches on the
prominade. Very few of the benches are broken in my opinion anyway and most are solid just need some sanding and painting and and I I think they should not be trashed. Uh um I would also like
take this opportunity to request the city to designate at least one bench as as a quote chatty bench. Uh because I think it might even be a tourist attraction for a lot of towns around the world have done it and they
supposedly it helps with uh issues of isolation and loneliness. Uh but it might be worth a try just to take a shot at it, you know. And finally, I'd like to comment on the issue of recycling in Cape May. My wife and I are members of
the taxpayers association and agree with the position that profit-making businesses should be responsible for removal of their recyclables and trash. In our opinion, if the city wants to pick up more stuff, it should pick up
residents garbage and make Cape May a more peaceful and livable place by improving the current system where multiple noisy and stinky garbage trucks are or always roaming the city during the day. So, um that's my final comment
that I want to thank you all for the work you do. I mean, I just here being here today, the kinds of things you have to deal with are just beyond my my comprehension in some ways. But uh and I we love Kate May. I know you do too. And and I want to say one last thing is that
if there's no warning at Soldiers and Sailors Park by next Bay, I'll be back. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Anyone else this evening? Stacy Shan, 928 Columbia. Um, I have a couple things, but one of them is on the
from the zoning board, we had pool applications. I want to put it before the board about no pools in sideyards and maybe think about doing something like that. I didn't What's you have a lot of pool
applications. Is that what you said? One of the ones that brought it up was this sideyard for a pool in the historic district on Decar Street. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Was a one that actually the zoning board agreed with HPC that it should not be placed there, but only HPC does not
allowed does not allow pools inside yards. Okay. The whole zoning in Kate May as a whole allows you to put a pool in the side yard. Okay. I see what you're saying. Okay. And that's the only thing I'm bringing up because somebody afterwards approached us on how they get that for all of town. So I thought can I
ask a question on that? Um that would be a change from city council then or zoning. It would start at the it would start at the planning board as a master plan examination. So really the zoning board makes an annual report to the planning board and that's really the zoning board should make that as part of
their annual report would go to the planning board and then the planning board make that address. Stacy has that been done? Well, and we just had it last week. Okay. On on on Thursday, but um I actually thought it was that the council could make a suggestion to the planning board is what I how I thought it can go
that way, too. It can go that that's what I one of the reasons that got to the zoning board because the planning board couldn't find a zoning reason to say no to that. Right. But the the HPC Well, I I personally would just be interested for the planning board to
discuss it anyway and give us a recommendation. Does anybody have a a Well, we can No, I mean we have a meeting coming up on the Yeah, I I can request anyone on the planning board could bring it up as a
discussion. Yep. Okay. So, are we all in agreement to bring that up at the planning board meeting? Okay. I support that. Good idea. My next uh statement has to do around the Jacob Jones monument. I just want to take another look. I think that's a very dangerous
intersection to put it at Howard and the beach. You know, people are always distracted as it is when they drive down Beach Drive, let alone to put a monument there. I think you're going to have car accidents, people getting hit because people are going to be walking in the street to look at the monument. I just don't think it's a very good location
for that monument. My next question has to do with questions for Paul. In that capital bond, I was surprised to see items such as security camera, police body cameras, and safety equipment not put in the departmental budgets and being bonded instead. To me, these are
items that should be in departmental budgets. They should be budgeting for things like this on a regular basis. And we shouldn't be bonding for something that we're going to be paying for basically some on some of these items long after they were were at their welcome. and all that money that goes
into bonding for materials adds to that cost. My second question has to do with lifeguard headquarters. Um since we're going to be expanding that six feet out, are we going to require a CAFA permit? Yeah, we've actually started that process. We already and have met with
them regarding that. So, yes. Okay. So, no approval, but you met you're starting the process. Yeah, we started that process. Okay, great. Um my next question is on the roads project. I saw my street up there, Columbia Avenue. I wasn't sure what that was for since it was just paved maybe three years ago.
Sidewalks, I think. Right. We have uh a sidewalk project for Columbia Avenue to just work on sidewalks. Oh. To have people replace their sidewalks. Yeah. Well, we're it's going to be a combination city uh resident projects where we're going to go in and reset a
lot of the the old slate and un uneven concrete. So, the city is going to be paying for people to have their to have people's There'll be a reimbursement requirement for the residents to help fund that. Okay. So, you're going to make the residents replace their sidewalks, but you're going to pay for a
portion of it. Yep. Okay. And then my other question has to do with can you explain, maybe I came in late, where the passenger bridge is going to be on First Avenue. Foul
Street by the Sunset Liquors. Sorry. Foul Street by Sunset Liquors going down towards the ocean. The First Avenue connects to where will connect where FA Street is through the a passenger bridge. Yes. It's going to be a bike and passenger
bridge to uh get people off of Broadway. Okay. And go on the back and the trails. Okay. So that so if you coming into town, you just pass the firehouse and you're going to have the first right would be Landis Avenue you can make. So right right from there you can be off on
Broadway all the way to the beach. So over the next couple weeks before the next meeting how long is this bridge going to be and how wide about a 200 ft just a connector okay I'm just trying goes on the construction website under
the future projects I'll be adding just now I heard of a of a bridge that's why I'm like where did this come from? We've talked about it one other meeting, but I'll add that as one of the projects on the future projects to show the location map and a a preliminary sketch of the bridge. Okay. But you said West Kate May is going to be paying part of this also.
West Kate May has taken the lead on the project. They've had their uh engineer working on permitting and and the some of the preliminary designs. So, they're taking the lead on the project. Is open space helping out too? That's what we have a meeting with open space to hopefully fund 50% of the pro project
costs and then West Kate May would fund the other 25% and we would fund 25%. Thank you, sir. Mr. Moser, welcome. Thank you, Mr. Mullik. Mayor Mollik. Um, my name is
Matt Moser. Um, I live at 1351 Delaware. Um, over in the Village Green and also a lifeguard out of our pool. A lifeguard at the pool. Thank you. Helped teach over at Wildwood Catholic and a lifeguard up at Beach Club. Thank you.
So, thank you. You know, I enjoy doing what I'm doing. So, it's fun, too, right? Um, so the question I had is and it came up a few of us who were neighbors were talking and a lot of times a question asked or a question not asked is never answered and so one of my
neighbors said they wanted to get some more space. They love living where they live. I love living in the Village Green till we moved there. we bought six years ago, moved down here three years ago. And so we thought rather than change the footprint for
permeability and stuff like that, why not build up and utilize the look and feel architecturally of Kate May? When you do build up, make it look really, really
nice. Peru designs, things like that. And so I guess what I'm asking is like the zoning for it is R4 which I believe I'm summarizing here
20 foot high right and so I drive around and I see a number of homes that are up over 20 foot. Um, I see some that are I'll call it had add-ons that were a
little bit um above 20 and it's not a knock to them. I think like the work that they did looks nice, right? So, and then I see some blocks when I look at, you know, I downloaded the um
the map and I I see a number of blocks that it seems like they're one side of the street is R4, one side is R2 and I'm going what are the impediments to building up? Like if the design was a
beautiful design, I'm just curious. Sir, are you a twin? I am a twin. Yeah. So, um I'm the president of the Village Green Association also. And um so some of the um things that have been
evaluated for those houses that you saw with the hats on them. Um a lot of that was done um prior to sort of more of an enforcement. It's always been 20 ft. Um, for those of us who have been in Village Green, you know, since the beginning,
um, to have one house up and then the other next to it, not, um, has always been a concern. Um, making those twins look a little lopsided. Um, the quads are another issue. Um, because there's four units attached to those. Um, you
know, I'm not speaking as a zoning person. I'm really speaking more so as someone who lives there. Um, if my neighbor wanted to do that, then my house would look a little bit out of out of space, you know, or a lot, you know, not look conformed. Um, because you're
attached as an attached dwelling. Um, the other piece of this has always been as part of the master plan for Village Green as was to maintain the campus-like setting um, which was the original intent and design. Um, at times that has frustrated homeowners. Um there's been
some mo you know changes and modifications um over the years but that was the sort of the original de design when the when that was developed back in 1969. So I don't have an answer for you because I'm not speaking as a council member. I'm speaking as a resident of that na that
area. I I know the frustrations, but I think if we were going to go about that and look at at it as a community um part of the village green community and presenting something, it would have to be that conformity, meaning that you would want to raise your then your
neighbor more than likely would be put in a position of maybe having to make modifications in order to make it look from a streetscape standpoint um not awkward. Um, and that's one of the things that in in that neighborhood we've we've tried to maintain some of
that. Um, maybe not all the time successfully, but some of it. So, right. So, I'm agreeing with you. I think the look has to look good. Right. And it was funny just speaking with my neighbor next door after my neighbor to the left
said, "Yep, that sounds great. Love be able to do that." And another neighbor said they'd love to be able to do that. my neighbor my neighbor who's connected on the twin side they said just show me the design right and then if like you know
as you drive down Kay you see dormers you see everything else like that you could put up a beautiful design and maybe as one of the requirements you go if you're going to adjust the front of the home it has to be both parties to agree to the same setting I think it
would improve property values down there I think it would selfishly give more room for my grandkids when they come down, right? Um, and that kind of thing. So, that's what I was kind of wondering what the impedance were. I do agree with you. Like, look, I would not want my neighbor building just up on one side. I
wouldn't want it. Well, there are some other considerations that would probably be part of it just having been on zoning is parking, you know? So, if you're adding to the square footage that increases the parking requirements and Yeah. I mean, I considered that too, but we've never really had that problem when people come down for vacation. We just
No, it's it's a it's a requirement in the code. In the code. It's in the code. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. So So that would need an adjustment as well. Yeah. Right. Yes. So if you're adding square footage, you know, and I'll turn this over to Mr. Gillan Schwarz, then you're um you're increasing the amount of
parking that you're required to have on your property. On your property, right, on the street. My grandkids don't drive yet. Okay. Yeah. considerations to go into it. Yeah. Right. So, if if I could add to that as
well, I also live in Village Green. My mom has a house in Village Green and my sister has a house in Village Green. So, we're familiar with the issues that you're talking about and um um you know, have have dealt with that as well. I would say you one of thing we one one of
the issues that we also have not issue but we don't have an HOA association in Village Green, right? So, um, when you when you look and face it, over the past 5 or 10 years, the look in Village Green has changed dramatically. You know, forget about the going up just the the
the front of the homes. I know there's been discussion um I also served on on zoning board and there's a discussion as well as far as just the uniformity and the look of of the different of the homes particularly when you know you have one on one side um one on the
other. I've seen some really beautiful projects where there's been a cooperative effort where people have made it look really well the same front. On the other hand, you see two that look um they're clearly mismatched, you know,
and that that does go contrary, I think, to the the look that um has been desired in Kate in Kate May and in Village Green, contrary to, as a deputy mayor said, the the campus environment that the campus look as as far as how Village
Green was originally um designed to be. Um, but the the other issue as well with going up in particular is I believe concerns about construction there and the weight on
considering the the property the the soil that it's built on. I mean that's the Yeah, that's that's Phil from where the harbor was. Um, correct. I had an engineer come out and take a look to see whether or not they thought it would support and their feeling was based on
the foundation was that it could. But whe you know whether he's right or wrong, I can't say. I can just say that we you know we took that step. So, I've seen it change from property to property and you have one property there that is wet and you have another property that's
dry and there's almost no rhyme or reason to it, right? On the same even on the same street. Um have seen some major renovations that have taken place um on, you know, not with the second floor, but people building out and maximizing the
space on their lot. And when they go to dig to put in that foundation, there's um you know there's there have been different strategies used. Some have used pilings, some have not used pilings, but what you consistently see is a lot of water from where they start
to dig. A lot of water that ends up getting pumped out and then um you know people are coming up with uh you know and building from there. So I mean not I don't know that engineer that may be a valid opinion but what I would say is I
think it does change from lot to lot within Village Green right um and I I know that has has been expressed as a concern um with that weight and I've also had the opportunity to walk through certain homes that you can clearly see issues that took place with the
foundations starting to um starting to deteriorate, starting to collapse and some floors and walls just uh just you know really being in in awful shape and a lot of significant um structural work need to be done to
just repair it to maintain a onelevel structure. Oh, something else just to add to that. Um, you know, the original homes were built in ' 69 on Ohio and then they moved towards the Bayside, right? So, your home was built in 85, right? Mine was built in 75, right? So,
when you look at those homes that were built in ' 69 when they started that development, I know homes that on my block that have been renovated, they have had to take them down to the studs. They've got two sump pumps under their encapsulated, you know, um, crawl space.
So, you know, there there's a lot I think what uh Councilman Bodner is to say, there's a lot to consider that because that development happened over many years, almost 15 years from the time it started to the time that got to Delaware and moved onward. Um it's not
perfect, but I I do think that this is something that the the Village Green community and we aren't an HOA. We have about 215 members in the association, but it's really much more about me provi and us providing information to people, you know, about what's going on in Kate
May, right? Um, it really would have to be a decision that was somewhat made at least jointly amongst the the residents. There's many people that have lived there that may not be able to tackle a three or $400,000, you know, addition. And so
then it's a neighbor against neighbor because you want to go up but you can't. Um, we also don't want to see a lot of, pardon the term, McMansions down there because it's been a campus-like setting and a very, you know, small and intimate
community. Large homes is not really what that was designed to be. And that's why people enjoy living there, to be honest with you. Like, I'm a dog lover, dog walker. Not to get to the dogs thing again, right? But long story short, when I walk my dog around the block, just going around one block, I see nice,
beautiful twotory, well-designed, well architected homes. They look beautiful just walking around the block. So, I get people get attached to what they're in. I really, really do.
I'm now there three years and I thought I'd bring it up, ask, see what the impediments are, see what some possible solutions are if there's other people that want to discuss it. Yeah, we would have to. It would really require I'm open to that. But that's the reason I
wanted to present this today is to go, you know, what can we do? And like the homes built in 1980, their foundation has been built differently than the ones that were built in 1960s, 1970s. Yeah. Like completely different. Right. Right. the piling peers that have rotted out from underneath the homes. They weren't
put in place at those. So anyway, that's why I just I wanted to bring it up to you guys' attention. I definitely appreciate the time. Yeah. And you know, I think there would be a lot of consider discussion at the planning and zoning board, you know, to to figure out what the you know, the the construct would
be. Um and um some weigh in from the community would be what I would like to see. Um, you know, just because I think everyone should have sort of an understanding of what the changes that it it could affect. I'd be happy to work with anybody offline or online or as a
group, whatever it would take to at least see what we could do. Okay. All right. Perfect. All right. Perfect. Thank you very much. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else this evening? Seeing none, we'll close public comment.
Do I have a motion to adjurnn? I'll make that motion, Mayor. Thank you very much, everyone. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you. Time is 7:04.