Good afternoon everyone. We have a special meeting of the city council of the city of Kate May. We are here in the Kate May city hall auditorium. Today is Monday, November 3rd, 2025. The time is now 4:30. Please join me for the pledge of allegiance.
>> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America >> and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Under the open public meetings law, notice of this meeting was sent to the
Kate May County Herald and the press of Atlantic City and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council posted on the city website and city hall bulletin board. Notice is hereby provided that city council meetings are audio recorded and or video streamed live. Live video streams are posted to the Kate May city website. City of Kate May is not responsible if
audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable. Roll call. Council member Baldwin >> here. Council member Bodner >> here. >> Deputy Mayor McDade >> here. Council member Meyer >> here. >> Mayor Mullik >> here. >> City Solicer Gillan Schwarz >> here.
>> City Manager Dietrich >> here. >> Deputy Manager Riggs >> here. >> Deputy Clerk Turner >> here. >> We have one resolution is 310-11 2022. A resolution providing for a meeting not open to the public in accordance with the provisions of the New Jersey Open
Public Meetings Act NJSA 104-12. This is to discuss the Atlantic City electric work order for relocation of electric poles and overhead lines relating to the new police station and the city manager position. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second?
>> A second. >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade? >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner? >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin? >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik? >> Yes. >> Public portion mayor. >> Is anyone here wishing to speak on this resolution? Seeing none, we can close
public comment and go into close session. The time is 4:34. Good evening everyone. We are coming out of a closed session and need to uh adjourn that close session. We will be adding one addition to the agenda.
Um, clerk, could you? >> Yeah, there'll be a resolution added to the regular meeting agenda. We'll detail that once we get there. >> Okay, great. So, do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> I make a motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Okay, with that, we will open up our
regular meeting of the city council of the city of Cape May. We are here in the Kate May city hall auditorium. Today is Monday, November 3rd, 2025. The time is now 5:35. Please join me for the pledge of allegiance.
>> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you.
Under the open public meetings law, notice of this meeting was sent to the Kate May County Herald and the press of Atlantic City and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council, posted on the Kate May city website and Kate May city hall bulletin board. Notice is hereby provided that Kate May City Council meetings are audio recorded and or video streamed live.
Live video streams are posted to the Kate May city website. City of Kate May is not responsible if audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable. Roll call. Council member Baldwin >> here. >> Council member Bodner >> here. >> Deputy Mayor McDade >> here. >> Council member Meyer >> here.
>> Mayor Mullik >> here. >> City Solicer Gillan Schwarz >> here. >> City Manager Dietrich >> here. >> Deputy Manager Riggs >> here. >> Deputy Clerk Turner >> here. >> And council, we have one addition to the agenda this evening. It's 319-11 2022. Resolution authorizing work order for
Atlantic City Electric for the relocation of electric poles and overhead lines for construction of the new police station. Do I have a >> motion to add to the regular agenda? >> Thank you. Do I have a motion to add? >> I'll make the motion. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer?
>> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade? >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner? >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin? >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik? >> Yes. >> Any deletions or other additions? Council? >> Any deletions? Council? >> No. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. Up to updates in old
business. >> Updates. Old business. City manager. >> Thank you. Um on the agenda we had for the uh employee of the month unfortunately uh Logan could not be with us this evening. So when I when she's going to be available, we'll have her come to a future meeting and we'll
recognize her at that moment. Um couple of updates I wanted to talk to council about. Uh we have posted last week about the dog park being closed. Uh that's in advance of starting work on the um uh new police station headquarters building. Uh, I've also getting
follow-up questions of, okay, we've kind of built most of the the new dog park. Uh, we haven't I haven't asked council for a full opening of that yet because they've installed the fence a little bit too high so small dogs can kind of get
in there, get out of there, maybe get stuck underneath the fence. And so, I know some people have probably already been in using it. We haven't locked it up because I don't want people just trying to climb the fence and get in. Um, but it's not officially open, but the future home is very close and I've
been working with the contractor on getting that open. Um, in regards to the police station headquarters, uh, we've announced that the groundbreaking is going to be on November Wednesday, November 12th at 3:30 p.m. And that's when we'll be doing the official
groundbreaking of the police station headquarters. You probably have seen they've the contractors put up some construction fencing uh just to kind of start the process, but you will see the contractors start to mobilize in there and in the coming weeks. We have
scheduled for budget hearings. Uh I know uh clerk's office will be putting those out to advertise, but we're looking at Thursday and Friday, November 13th and 14th, starting at 9:00 am each morning. Um we've almost finalized the schedule.
Uh but after by the time the we have it advertised, I'm sure we'll be able to have that uh the full list of the calendar as far as the schedule to be able to post on the city website. And I know that back in the spring, we talked about having a recycling update.
The public works superintendent is on vacation this week, so we have it have him penciled in to come in and have a discussion with a memo uh at the next meeting to kind of give a update on the recycling. And that's all I had this evening. Thank you. >> Thank you, city manager, city solicitor.
>> I don't have anything tonight. Thank you. >> City Council, any updates or old business? >> Okay, seeing none, we'll go to ordinances for second reading. >> We have ordinance 580-2025, an ordinance to update the uniform salary and classification plan for the department of personnel positions in the
city of Kate May with a public hearing scheduled for this evening. Mayor, >> okay. Is this Are we >> We're going to table this one. So, um, >> city clerk, if we could table that. >> Sure. So, um, I don't know if you guys want to undertake any discussion or
maybe let the public know that you intend to maybe make some changes and bring it back at the next meeting to reintroduce. Is that >> That is my understanding. >> Yes. Well, we're going to uh Councilwoman Bowman and I will be meeting with uh Mr. or Dietrich um
making some changes and then um figuring out where that timing is to be able to bring it back hopefully the next meeting. If not, we may wind up tableabling it based on the timing until after the first of the year. So, we will keep you informed. >> Sure. >> As to the status. >> So, I believe generally historically
when this has happened, we've already published for a public hearing this evening. There might have been people to come to comment on that if council's interesting in still holding a public meeting or a public hearing. obviously knowing that we might be bringing back a different version of this. >> Is anyone here wishing to speak on uh
ordinance 580? >> Seeing none, we'll close public comment and please know that it will be coming back to you. >> Um with that, can I uh do I have a motion to table this? >> Table indefinitely. It would be recommendation. Okay, I'll make a motion. >> I'll second.
>> And indefinitely means that we're going to have to reintroduce introduce it anyway, right? >> Yeah. depending on the uh the state. >> I'm gonna let Chris handle that one. >> All right. So, if if the intent was to table it for purposes of considering
some changes within the calendar year and maybe considering second adoption, I would say let's table it to the next meeting. But if we anticipate this taking longer than maybe one or two meetings, we're running into the end of the year and we should just table indefinitely. And in that case, we would
reintroduce whatever >> whatever amended uh or changed iteration of this comes. >> We should know by the end of this week um where we stand. So we will let >> and I just would say we really need to introduce something to get a lot of the
guard bargaining units in line just so that we're in compliance for our audit for the end of the year. >> I'm going to work with you one sometimes this week. the the benefit of maybe just tableabling to the next meeting is that um we can let everybody know that this version may be considered for adoption
with maybe some changes at the next meeting. And if you want to make those at the table, we may be able to get an adoption under the wire before the end of the year. You'd of course have to republish any changes at the after the next meeting, but it would kind of keep it in quue for adoption.
>> Is that the intention of your motion? >> That is the intention. >> Yes. So to uh table until the next meeting. >> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> So we have a motion to table to the next meeting. We have a second. Any other questions or comments? >> Just the next meeting is Monday uh
November 17th. Just so everyone knows because of the league uh conference that week. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Are we ready? >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDeade. >> Yes. Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik.
>> Yes. Okay. And we have the public portion on the resolutions. Mayor, >> is anyone here wishing to speak on resolutions on the agenda this evening? >> Seeing none, we'll close public comment on resolutions. >> Anything to remove from the consent
agenda this evening, council? >> Anything to remove, council? >> Yes, mayor. I'd like to remove 312, please. >> Okay. Okay. Anything else, council? Okay. >> And I believe there might be some
abstensions from minutes. Do you Would you like to go over those, Council Member Meyer? Shall I? >> Yeah. Would you please? >> Yes. So, it looks like Council Member Meer is going to abstain from the regular meeting minutes uh dated October 7th. Um as well, >> Nope. You can vote on the next one. So,
just October 7th. Okay. >> Okay. Thanks. >> All right. Do I have a motion on the uh on the um >> consent agenda? >> Consent agenda. Thank you. >> Yep. >> I'll make the motion, Mayor. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Roll call.
>> Council member Meyer >> with the ex ext Oh jeez. Absion >> for October 7th. >> I'm sorry. Yes. >> All good. Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik.
>> Yes. All right. Going back to 312-11 2022. Resolution providing for the insertion of a special item of revenue in the budget pursuant to chapter 159. This is for the Kate May County Open Space for Harborview Park. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion.
>> Do I have a second? I'll second. Any questions or comments? >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer? >> No. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. Yes. >> Mayor Mullik. >> Yes.
>> All right. And on to the regular agenda is 319-11 2025. A resolution authorizing work order for Atlantic City Electric for the relocation of electric poles and overhead lines for construction of a new police station. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second.
>> Any questions or comments? >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDeade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. Yes. >> Mayor Mullik. >> Yes. >> Any new business? Council, >> new business. City solicitor.
>> Nothing tonight. Thank you. City manager, new business. >> Uh just one thing I wanted to update. Uh this afternoon uh we received the our NJD permit for the construction of the uh the new water plant today. Uh so that allows us to uh that's really one of the
last permits that we need still need. I think we still need a caffer permit, but yeah, that's one of that's the technical permit for all the the nuts and bolts and schematics and and how the plant is constructed permit, but we still still need a caffer permit. That's
>> excellent news though and great work on that. That's uh obviously extremely important. So, >> uh city clerk, any updates? Um, I did just mention, but to reiterate, the next meeting is Monday, November 17th at 5:30 p.m. due to the League of Municipalities
Conference the rest of the week up in Atlantic City. Um, also obviously tomorrow is election day, so get out and vote 6 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. That's it, Council. >> Great. Thank you. Uh, Councilwoman B, uh, Baldwin. >> Uh, just a reminder, Jazzfest this weekend and that's all, mayor.
>> Nice. Yeah, that's fun. Uh, Councilman Bodner, >> nothing tonight, Mayor. Thank you. Uh deputy mayor, >> I think this tonight. Thank you, mayor. >> Councilman Meyer. >> No, thank you. >> Well, okay. I'll just say go out and vote if you haven't voted yet.
All right. And what were the times again for voting tomorrow? >> Uh 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. >> 6 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. >> And the ballot boxes are still open, too, if you have a vote by mail until 8:00 p.m. >> Thank you, city clerk. >> No problem. >> With that, we'll open it up for public comment. Uh, anyone wishing to speak on
any and all matters, please come to the microphone, state your name and address for the record. Stacy Shan, 928 Columbia Avenue. Uh, my first question has to do with um the Jacob Jones Memorial. Have it have we gotten anywhere with that? They have a
new spot on where they want to put it. And one of the reasons why I'm asking this is because I received an email saying that um I guess there was activity or a group of a couple council people um and
Mr. uh Becker I'm going to say Bodner. I knew it wasn't Mr. Becker down at the cove. Just wondering if the cove is now a new spot that they're looking at to put the Jacob Jones memorial. >> That that meeting was that that was down
at the cove was two months ago, maybe two and a half months ago and that that was regarding the prominade reconstruction project and had nothing to do with the cove. >> Okay. Just I just like I said we have no new update as far as >> that project moving forward yet.
>> Okay. Thank you for the clarification. Um, my next question has to do with a topic that will be coming up having to do with the new with the contract with West Kate May police uh patrolling over there. So, I'm I'm just calling or I'm actually bring this
up because of the difference in what West Kate May pays compared to the taxpayers of Kate May. West Kate May taxpayers pay roughly $550,000 for the police to patrol in
West Kate May. Um at the same time, Kate May pays West Kay to use the substation over there around $45,000 for the year. So roughly West Kate May pays about $500,000 a year for police coverage in their
city. Meanwhile, in Kate May, uh salary and wages are around $2.1 million. Other expenses around 250,000. County dispatch is 195,000. Now, this is retirement for fire and
police, so I know it's a combined. So, that was 1 point around 1.3 million. So, I'm going say about 700,000. What's not included in the budget I could find was health care for the police. Cars and equipment were not included.
Also, any lawsuits that the city um might acquire because of the police patrolling in West Cape May, we pay for and of course, you know, um anything else that comes along the way. So, comes out to be around and this is rough, but
probably more than that, $3.4 $4 million that the city taxpayers pay for police protection, not including the $8 million police building that we're going to be building soon. So, my point is that when you go for these contracts or not
contracts, but um shared services with West Kate May, just keep in mind the difference in what is being paid between the city taxpayers of Kate May and the West Kate May taxpayers. Roughly if there's four patrolman on and that's one patrolman in West Kate May and three in
Kate May that's 25%. Westgate May is not even close to being 25% of that $3.4 million budget. >> Thanks go into anything private obviously. So um Miss Sheen just to respond and I'll just give this very briefly. There is
currently there has been for the past several months and I'm the council liaison a workg group on the shared services agreements for police services both on uh in West Cape May as well as Kate May point. We have completely deconstructed the entire police budget
and rebuild it around health care expenses, pension expenses, operating expenses and all expenses associated with police services and have presented a budget to them on what the appropriate cost share should be as we enter into a
new contract. Uh what has occurred in the past unfortunately was not um based on objective metrics. This is all based on objective metrics and so I can assure you that the numbers will look different in the future only because we're doing
it in a much more transactional way. >> Thank you. Uh anyone else uh from the public this evening? >> Good evening. Jules Roush 10 New York Avenue. I'd like to make a few comments if I may please on the workforce housing
which I understand is coming up uh at the next meeting. Um, first I think it's it's uh incumbent on the on the city to notify everyone that is in the C1 district to receive a
notice or some some basic information as to what this change means because it's a significant change and as a result of that I think they should know what that is. Um, and I would suggest that it be be made prior
to the 17th, which was a hearing, so that if they have a comment, they would be able to to come and uh and make their comments known. As I've said in the past, I think one of the things that's very disappointing about this entertainment of a change
this significant is that there's been no, to my knowledge, no study by the planning board of the numbers that deal with uh the the properties within the C1 district. Uh frankly, I was not prepared
to talk about anything other than the mall itself. There there roughly 55 u two-story buildings in the mall area. Of those 21 have a third floor.
Uh there's approximately 130 parking spaces around the mall. If you take the numbers of of 55 buildings and you equate that into some form of how many apartments there may be and if
you discount it by 50% which I've done, you can come up with somewhere close to uh uh 33 apartments. Of those 33 apartments, they're they're permitted to have four persons per
apartment. as you know, it's 550 uh square feet of habitable area. Uh that that could equate to, you know, an increase in in people of, you know, we don't know how many, but certainly
somewhere between 50 and 100 and maybe even more than that. None of those are required to have a parking space. I think it's uh incumbent on the city to to evaluate what kind of impact is that
going to have if you have that many new people living in an area where the most important or the most critical issue for the entire town is parking. you're you're loading up an area that's heavily
dense that's heavily uh populated by single family houses who which already and I know some people that live on Windsor as an example and they have a terrible time parking anywhere close to their house. There are many residents
that haven't had the opportunity to park on their street and if we throw in another 50 to 100 residents in the center of town, the impact that they're going to have is significant. Uh I think you you need you need to look
at that. I'm frankly really disappointed that there hasn't been a study done to look at the impact of not only the the mall because you've now thrown into this equation of including the entire C1
district. Uh and I have no concept frankly myself of how much impact those that additional area may be. I think frankly frankly this is this is a rush to judgment. I think you you've you've taken the subject of workforce housing
which obviously we all know is a problem. It's not just unique to Cape May. It's up it's frankly throughout the country uh more so in resort areas but um housing is is a difficult subject and
we're going to we're going to compound our problem. But the solution that we're seeking is to take an area and say we're going to call this workforce housing slash long-term occupancy.
Now I understand uh from the last meeting that I watched of the planning board that the chairman of the planning board has asked that the the title be changed from uh to include workforce housing along with longterm housing that
it be significantly different when you add to that long-term housing. What does that really mean? That means that every apartment that is in the C1 district is going to be
potentially longterm housing with no parking. That means that we could we all know that the short term uh 90 days or less is not in good interest to the to the city because that that's too much uh
turnover. However, long-term housing is from 91 days on. So we could have theoretically in a in a given year a number of turnovers in a given apartment and with that comes a lot of changes.
Are these apartments going to be furnished or are they going to be vacant where every time you get a change of a tenant you're going to have a move of furniture in and out >> there. >> We all know the difficulties that exert
that that exist with loading zones on both sides of the mall. the backsides of the mall. It's it's it's murder with the the deliveries just to the uh the commercial businesses. I raise these questions because I think it's very very important. I think as a
result of fact there's not been a a a study done to determine the validity or the val the the basic uh u uh importance of of workforce housing.
But I think without having done a study, it becomes arbitrary and capriccious. It's not it's there's no basic understanding of why we should do this. When you look at the the uh the definition of workforce housing, which
I've done in a number of different areas, even the the uh urban land institute refers to workforce housing. And added to that is not only workforce housing but the economics of making workforce housing available. Our our
definition does not refer to anything dealing with economics. So the apartments when they become available, they become available at market rate or whatever the property owner deems desirable on his behalf. So I submit to
you that it will be very difficult for quote a workforce housing individual to pay the kinds of rents that the the the area will command. Um I I frankly feel that we have gone beyond what is
reasonable to give up the the provision of parking. I don't feel that there's an overall benefit that's that's uh to be gained and quite frankly this ordinance really in my view is a
subtrifuge to enable the commercial and investment community to benefit by having the ability to convert their second and third floors into apartments which are revenue producing. They will not solve the workforce housing. They
will only benefit themselves. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else this evening? >> Seeing none, we have a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll make that motion. >> Thank you everyone. Have a wonderful evening.