All right. Good good afternoon. There we go. All right. Good afternoon everybody. We have a special meeting of the city council of the city of Cape May. We are here in the city hall auditorium. Today is Tuesday, August 19th, 2025. The time
is just what 1. The time is 2:31. Please join me for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. Thank you. Under the open public meetings law, notice of this meeting was sent to the Kate May County Herald and the press of Atlantic City, and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council, posted on the city website and the city hall bulletin board. Notice is
hereby provided that Kate May city council meetings are audio recorded and or video streamed live. Live video streams are posted to the Kate May city website. City of Kate May is not responsible if audio recording or live video streaming of the meeting is unavailable. Roll call. Council member
Baldwin here. Council member Bodner here. Deputy Mayor McDade. Yes. Here. Council member Meyer here. Mayor Mullik here. City solictor Gillan Schwarz is in route and will participate in the close session. City manager Dietrich
here. Deputy Manager Riggs here. Deputy Clerk Turner here. We have one resolution 25308205. A resolution providing for a meeting not open to the public in accordance with the provisions of the New Jersey Open
Public Meetings Act, NJSA104-12. This is to discuss collective bargaining negotiations for UAW local 2327 Middle Management. Do I have a motion? I'll make the motion. Do I have a second? A second. Roll call. Council member Meyer? Yes. Deputy Mayor McDade?
Yes. Council member Bodner? Yes. Council member Baldwin? Yes. Mayor Mullik? Yes. Public portion mayor? Anyone here wishing to speak on the close session? I see no one in attendance. We'll close public comment and move into the close session. Time is 2:34.
Thank you. All right. Good afternoon everyone. We are coming uh out of a closed session um which we need to close with no further action. Do I have a motion to close the executive session? I'll make that motion and I'll second. Thank you.
We don't need a roll call, right? Okay, great. With that, we will open up our special meeting of the city council of the city of Cape May. We are here in the Cape May city hall auditorium. Today is Tuesday, August 19th, 2025. The time is
now 4 minutes past 3 p.m. Please join me for the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. Thank you. Oh jeez. Under the open public meetings law, notice of this meeting was sent to the Kate County Herald and the press of Atlantic City and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council, posted on the city website and
city hall bulletin board. Notice is hereby provided that city council meetings are audio recorded and or video streamed live. Live video streams are posted to the Kate May city website. City of Gate May is not responsible if audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable.
Roll call. Council member Baldwin here. Council member Bodner here. Deputy Mayor McDade here. Council member Meyer here. Mayor Mullik here. City solicitor Gillan Schwarz here. City Manager Dietrich here. Deputy Manager Riggs here. Deputy Clerk Turner
here. And CFO Haney here. Any additions or deletions tonight? Council, any additions or deletions, council? Seeing none, we can move right on to presentations. We have with us this evening uh Vince Orlando of EDA and uh
his staff here if they want to come up and introduce yourselves and council. Okay. Good afternoon, member and council. Um again, my name is Vince Orlando. I am a partner in firm of engineering design
associates and we've been working Thank you. have to hold. We've been working along with uh of course uh the council and uh the staff here on a couple different projects to my meteorite is Nicole Welsh. Nicole I
think has been here a number of times. You know she was integrated into the Kuanas Park and she has been the project manager on the Harborview park. And to her right is Patrick, our one of our newest engineers. Patrick is working on
two projects. He's working on the uh rehabilitation of sidewalks and curbs in the community uh which will be a project that'll take place hopefully this uh fall. and he's also working on the ADA
compatible sidewalks for the tennis courts along with the improvements for a restroom and some ADA ramping. So, since I don't know very little about the projects, not really, but um I'd like
Nicole to present the Harborview park. But before I do, um I did have a brief discussion with the manager and the mayor, and I know some of the residents here are concerned about some of the trees. Um Danzel and I go back uh 40 years
probably. So, one of the things I had recommended to the mayor is that uh before we make the final selections, we would sit down with a group of you guys uh kind of work through some of the treat selections of the placements so that at the end of the day, everybody's happy because the idea
of the park is not only for people that are coming there, but also the people that live there. So, um obviously you'll have an opportunity to talk, but the mayor wanted me to extend that we would have a small group come out. We'll meet at these house and uh we'll be able to
present you with the landscaping that we have there. Vince, if I could just add because I know um you already have but and Nicole as well, but uh also just adding in the shade tree commission to the mix just to make sure we're we already have their approval. Yep. Perfect. Thank you.
With some minor recommendations. So I I've been relinquished to being the hander out. I do have a couple of extra copies. Thank you. [Music]
I have I'll share. I have a couple extra um small ones. That's okay. Okay. So, before Nicole gets started, I just want to kind of
talk about the whole theme of Harborview park and what was the intent. Um, I think you know, Deputy Mayor McDade uh kind of headed spearheaded uh this initially along with
Councilwoman Baldwin about keeping kind of a passive park. Um, a park where you could go and sit and relax. Um, not an active park, not a playground. Um, really kind of just a destination
just for some tranquility. So, the park has been designed to really introduce those elements of tranquility um by providing a whole lot of amenities that uh Nicole will get into. But, uh that was kind of the uh guidance that we
got from city council uh on this on this project. So, take it away, Nicole. All right. You may want to take the if you don't mind. Yep. You can right up to your mouth. Thank you. Good afternoon, mayor, council, uh community. My name is Nicole Welsh. I'm a landscape architect uh with Vince
Orlando at Engineering Design Associates. Um so he just gave a a small little intro of Harborview Park, but for those who aren't familiar with it, it's a triangular-shaped park um at the end of Texas Avenue, uh right at the waterfront of Skellingers Creek, kind of caddy corner across the water from the
Lobster House. Nicole, before we go any further, I just because we don't get to see you very often and um I just want to compliment you um on Quantas Club Park um because we see you here to talk about the design and then we don't see you again. But I just want to share with you how um
beautiful it is to see those kids playing. Anybody here in Kate May knows we have Camp Kate May that just ended and I want to thank all the uh our people involved with Camp Kate May. It was really, it's really a wonderful program, but this was the first full season that they had to use Kuanas Club
Park and um all of your uh thought that went into that in regards to, you know, even the braille on the naming of the trees and just learning the kids being able to learn about the ecology within the park and and frankly just the play, you know, they had just just a wonderful
time. I uh those little design details that you added uh probably to a very rough plan from Vince uh was really a wonderful thing. So I I just want to thank you on that first and then sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. Yeah, I appreciate that. Um okay, so yeah, so currently at
Harborview Park um like Vince said, it's a passive park. It's it's meant for watching the boats, watching the sunset, um reading a book, just you know, hanging out in nature. Uh there's currently uh three gaz three gazebo structures um which are a little bit in
disrepair. Um you've all seen them. They're uh not quite dilapidated but you know almost there. Uh there's a existing boardwalk prominade along the water that is um a composite uh boardwalk and it's warping and definitely needs repair on that one. The vegetation, a lot of it is
overgrown or uh invaded with invasive vines that are uh killing some of the trees. Um and uh there's site furnishings. Um a lot of benches and tables that are a mishmash. Nothing is cohesive. None of them match
and they don't really make sense. Um and uh there's also existing I think 12 parking spaces um in the front. So um our plan what we're proposing we will um first order business more parking
right. So, there's existing 12 parking spaces. We're going to um remove part of the curb and continue the parking spaces to a total of I think there's 18. I'd have to go back and look. I'm sorry. Um and so, currently there's an existing um
concrete walkway system that goes throughout. Part of the walkway we're going to keep. So, if you see the dark um gray concrete walkway, we're going to keep that. But then everything else that's highlighted in yellow uh concrete walkway is all going to be new. We'll have new walk um concrete sidewalk along
the entire park, the perimeter. A new uh prominade and instead of wood or composite, we're going to use a concrete planking um uh boardwalk for the proomenade. A new railing along the proomenade that'll be um wood and steel
framework um like a a mesh screen kind of railing. Um we're going to have new seating uh along the entire prominade. Um and then uh a new gazebo in the center um where it's highlighted in orange. Um around
the gazebo, this will be a new walkway that kind of ramps up to the the gazebo will be slightly elevated. So there'll be a couple steps up to the gazebo, a ramp on this side, and a ramp back down. And then this is all new concrete here. So, this will be um a new concrete
walkway along here that abuts um a concrete retaining wall that will um have a be retaining all of this earthwork here that'll be burmed up and landscaped. And within that area, we'll have uh a lot of landscaping and then seating. The seating will be for
picnicking and also some of them will have chess or checker game tables. So, um people can go and and play games or picnic. Some of the seating will um be four-seater and others will be three-seater to allow a wheelchair for handicap accessibility. In the center
here, there's a triangle that's going to be a planter, a raised planter um with a large ben, you know, one uh bench along the water side to view the water. Um this rectangle right here, that's going
to be a terrace seating system. So thinking about like just the opportunities we have to to sit, to view, to contemplate instead of just a bench. Um so this terrace seating system, it's modular and you can lounge,
you can climb up to it, you can get to a level. So it gives you a couple different um levels of viewing so that you can view the water and uh the boats. Um all of the um the seating elements here will be the same consistency of
materials. So they'll be these are all wood and the bottom will be powder coated steel. Um along this retaining wall that curved dark line will the front of the retaining wall will be a long linear curved bench like that. And we're going to provide lighting
underneath the bench. So it'll just be very subtle um just accent lighting. Um this is an image of the triangular planter um that I mentioned. And then throughout the park there's three red asterisks. One right there, one right
there, and one in the center of the um the planter. Those are going to be kinetic sculptures. So they'll move with the wind. Um these sculptures right here, we did work with the uh local art commission and um picked out a couple really nice
pieces. So those will just add movement and um just a flow into the space. It kind of reminds me very nautical themed with that. Um there is an existing anchor right in the very front where the sign is. We're going to replace the sign with a brand new sign. and the existing
anchor will be repl uh will remain but just be repositioned. Um these are some of the images of the uh seating available with the chestboard seating uh the benches along the prominade as well and those those are all the same company
so that'll be a co cohesive uh language with the with the seating elements. So um the grant through the open through the county had the open space uh grant. Now, we're not required to use a lot of their placemaking um elements, but
there's really nice furniture that they have. So, we kept with some of the placemaking elements. However, we um altered them slightly um just knowing that it's going to be against the elements, you know, with the salt water and the air and making sure that we're not going to um have these things
corrode very shortly. So, these companies that we're working with, they all do an e-coating, which is a like a primer before they do a powder coating. So, it protects it against, you know, the elements that um that we're facing. Nicole, I think uh people may be familiar with the benches from uh the
new nature trails, at least for Yes. Same benches, different color. Yes. Um and then so then the trash receptacles, the railing that we're using here is the same railing that we used on the nature. Oh, that's great. Same railing at the nature trails. That's great. And and we've gotten a lot
of compliments on that. And the trash receptacles, I believe, were the same at the nature. So, same just different color. You know, these will be blue. Um, and then also a just a regular style picnic table that's ADA accessible, so you can have a wheelchair um on one side
of it. Some other seating that we're going to be providing is aderondex style seating, and those are highlighted on the plan. Um, there's just little red squares and yellow boxes throughout. So what those are going to be are regular
style aderondex seating. Uh along the water on the prominade there's going to be double aderondex like it's a bench style. And then on in the gr grass area there'll be some loungers. So all in the aderondex style of um of seating but
then gives you a place to just lounge in the grass, get some sun, read a book. This is an image of the gazebo that we're um proposing. Yes. Sure. How are you anchoring those deck chairs? They're all going to
facing directly to the wings. They're very heavy duty. So each one um I don't know how much they weigh, but chairs on my deck. Mhm. Doesn't matter what the wind. So, excuse me, guys. I have We're going to need a microphone if we're going to I don't know if we're
taking questions at this point. Yeah. Just just so we stay in order. I I'm going to open it up to questions for any for all any anybody. Yeah. But just to answer that right now, um I do have concrete pads at each of the bases of all of the aderondex style seating within the grass and they'll all be
anchored into that pad. Um and that also just cleans up the space so that um maintenance-wise there's not an aderonduct chair and then you know getting damaged by the weed whacker or anything like that. So it'll just be a nice clean concrete pad underneath each of the sections of chairs and they'll be
anchored to the concrete. Um where else? Yeah, here's an image of the railing like we said just like the at the trail system. Uh a new Harbor View Park sign and there's an existing compass um stone lay that's inlaid into
the concrete walkway that's located right there. We're going to keep that but just repair it. There's it's just a little bit of um repair that's needed around the stone. Um and as far as landscaping, oh let me go back to lighting. Um, we have some
Ballard lighting that we're going to provide along the walkway. They're very lowlevel lighting. Um, an amber kind of uh color to it and they they're it'll be frosted glass within the Ballard. So, it's not going to be a very bright light. It'll be a very nice um subtle
light and then the hood on the Ballard light kind of deflects the uh the lighting down onto the pathway. um because we added any concerns. I think the lighting at Kuanas Park was a little bit bright for that
neighborhood. So, we took that into account here. We did some research. So, the light will not be visible. It'll be a downward light with a a hood. So, we're trying to be a little bit more sensitive to the residential neighborhood that And in addition to the Ballard lighting,
like I said, there was there will be um a little accent lighting under the benches. There's also going to be a single pendant light in the gazebo and then a couple spotlights that'll just be um focusing on the sculptures and the front the main entrance sign just to
illuminate, you know. So, they'll be lowle again. Um and then as far as uh landscaping, we have there there's currently um some burm uh raised berms planted on in the park. Uh I really like that feature. And
this f front front one um I'm going to keep in the same exact position and uh just remove the vegetation that needs to be removed and replant it. The other two are going to just be reoriented, but we're still going to keep those burm structures and um plant them with native
shrubs, uh perennials, evergreen trees, uh flowering trees, and then some shade trees, some small flowering trees along the proomenade. Um, I have some areas where it's focused on screening. Um, and then
other areas where it's focused more on some perennial um, pollinator gardens like kind of at the base of all of the sculptures will be a lot of perennials, butterfly weed and um, some dillies and muigrass and lavender. No, not lavender.
I took that out. Cat mint. Um, mui grass, which is a really nice grass. It uh it's an ornamental grass. It has pink uh e fllororesence on the seed heads and it's really nice when it blows in the wind. Um yeah, I think that's pretty much it.
Any questions? Any questions from council first? No, I would just like to make a comment. I was the council liaison on this project working with Vince and Nicole and you did a fabulous job. you kind of really took the the idea that I had
about this park living down in that end of town. I've been there many times over the years. Um it's used by people just to go and sit, have a cup of coffee, meet somebody, have a quick lunch. Um so I'm really pleased that we were able to
maintain that the ambiance of that and really leaned into it. And the county, I have to say the open space was so receptive uh to this design and the concept. this is not something that really quite frankly exists anywhere else in the county in this kind of form. So when they heard what you know our
intent was um to maintain it and really lend itself so that it could be used for you know residents and visitors um for that purpose and intent they were very supportive of it. Um, so I'm really very happy with the way things turned out and those of us who live down that end of
town. Um, are really looking forward to having this done and being brought up to um, the standard that it should be. So, thank you both for your involvement. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, Nicole. Yeah, just one more thing, the irrigation of it. Yes, we are going to have irrigation. So
there there's yeah there's existing um water spets throughout that um we'll use that and then relocate to the irrigation box location will be where the electrical boxes are. And right now the electrical is is kind of exposed. So we'll create you know a formal
electrical box uh cabinet that the electric will be in and then right next to it the irrigation controls and yes the whole site will be irrigated. I would like to say that it's a beautiful design. I really like the gazebo. Uh really ties in the whole town feel with that. Um I could see some
weddings being here. You know, small, you know, intimate weddings. I think the adding of the parking is a no-brainer, but it's still brilliant because I've, you know, I've spent so many hours parked there with, you know, a family member or a friend just chatting and people just love looking at that view,
having their lunch there, and I think it's, you know, great design. Thank you. Thank you. Uh and and Mr. My thank you to the shade tree commission as well for reviewing these and and sounds like they might have a little bit more work, but that's good. So, um
environmental also do an environmental commission. Yeah. Thank you. And I just want to add um a few months ago I had lunch at the lobster house and I was looking across the creek trying to see if I could see where the park would be and and envision what what the proposed is. Um, and I think this this
uh kinetic sculpture that is located near the water, I think you're going to be able to see it from outdoor seating at the lobster house. So, I think that'll be an exciting element to bring people, you know. Oh, what's that over there? Let's go check out that park, you know. Yeah. Very cool. Uh, with that, if uh if
everyone's comfortable, I'd like to open it up to public comment if anyone we'll keep it just to the park at this point, but if anyone and by the way, if you're here for something else, we will have another public comment. But, uh, for the park, if anyone has anything they'd like to say, please come to the microphone,
state your name and address for the record if you would, please. Good afternoon. My name is Ununice King and my husband David and I live at Two Harbor Cove, which is really between Harbor Cove and Texas Avenue. So, we
have a dead-on view of the park. And for a long time, we've looked at that and thought, "What a beautiful park that could be. And I thank you for paying attention to it and working on this beautiful design for it." We really do. But I'm here on behalf of
my neighbors because we do have some concerns about the number of trees that are projected to be planted in the park and the height to which they may grow. Uh as we count up the quantity on your
on your graph, we total up 87 trees. That seems like an awful lot of trees for this park. It's not a really big park. The other thing that we're concerned about is how high these trees can grow. Now, I also
looked at the height that is listed in the list of the plantings and most of them are 5 to eight or 9 ft at this point. What's the height of plant at planting? At planting that's very different from maturity. Correct. I looked up each one
of these species of trees and most grow up to around 60 feet and some of them the willow oaks grow up as high as 100 ft. That is really really high. Okay. And our concern is that having that
density of trees is really going to obliterate the view that you're so carefully planning for people to come and sit in the park and enjoy. Would also obliterate the view from anyone driving down Texas Avenue and for many
of us who live around the park. So that is our major one of our major major concerns. The other thing that we're concerned about is the overall maintenance of the park. Uh maintaining 87 trees properly is a
very expensive proposition. I know because I've maintained lesser numbers than that and that's a lot and I don't know what the budget for that will be. I'm assuming that there's no money in the initial grant to pay for maintenance
forthcoming. So I think that's another thing that really needs to be addressed. And then the other concern and it sounds like you have addressed this is the kinds of materials that are being used for the railings for the uh non-tree
structures for the seating and that kind of thing. Um, so I would say the two points that I'd like to make are concern about the number of trees and the height that those trees can grow to. And by the way, I did some calculation and some of
those trees could be up to 20 feet within 5 years. That's high. That's about the height of a twostory house. Um, so that is our concern. I would say going forward um please give some
attention to reducing the number of trees. Maybe consider using fewer trees to three or four nice trees I think would be plenty in there and ones that would be lower that aren't going to grow
as high that maybe spread out a bit and shrubs. I think that would make for a beautiful, really tranquil park that everyone could enjoy from many different angles. So, thank you.
[Applause] Thank you very much. Uh, any anyone else? Uh, Raj Johnson, 826 Lafayette Street. Um, my comment is more of on a practical manner. Um I visit the um nature trail
almost every day. Thank you very much and thank you for the sign. Um and the railing there is very beautiful. But uh many of the people that have visited there, especially um visitors with
families really complain about the seagull poop that is on the railings. the um the seagulls love to perch on that railing. And if you come there when no one else is there, you'll see the
seagulls lined up on the railing. And um if you know anything about children, um pretty much the first thing they do, they want to always jump into look over, you know, the barrier that's there. So
their first reaction is to go, "Wow, look at that." And then on their arms is full of seagull poop. So um I don't know. Um I believe there are some deterrence. Um of course we don't want to, you know,
do anything to harm seagulls, but if you could maybe think of something that would um I think irregular railings that they don't perch on. They don't perch on as much railings that are irregular. Um,
but the railing at the nature trail is perfect for them to um sit on and feel comfortable and that is wonderful to some extent. But uh as a parent and grandparent with little kids full of
seagull poop, not so cool. Thank you. Thank you. Hi D. Lancelotti from For Harbor Cove in Kate May. I just want to compliment you on the plan. I think it's beautiful. Thank you. It's really beautiful. I'm excited.
Worried about the wind. Actually, you'll find this incredible, but I live right across and after living in my house for 25 years, my Anderson sliding doors were bowing in. Now, they weren't hurricane doors. I did replace them with hurricane
doors, but that wind is such a force there that's it's a worry to me if things aren't anchored down properly that they'll be blowing around. So, thank you for taking that into consideration. And like Ununice, we all have the concern about how many trees.
And Vince said maybe we can all get together and meet and talk about that and come up with suggestions and ideas because it's a beautiful area. People really enjoy it. I watch people jogging there. The Coast Guard event is next week there. Um, weddings have taken
place there. It's a beautiful park, but it's underappreciated because it has grown so much and the trees are so high you can't see the harbor any longer. So, your ideas are great and I think that if we could look at the species of trees
and the height and and really maybe reconsider some of that, it'd really be appreciated. Okay. Thank you all for all your hard work. Thank you, D. I'm Mary McKenna and my husband Theodore and I live at 33 Harbor Cove. Hello to
all of you. And I also want to echo the thanks that's been expressed here, especially in the work that was uh put forth to get the grant. Wonderful to be able to get that. So, thank you all for all the hard work and the beautiful design. Um I want to specifically address the compass rose, the granite
compass that you've referenced because that was put in by my husband Ted when we had the stone and the stone business. We've done other things as donations in town uh at the nature center all the stone in there and at Kate May stage the bathrooms which Royce Steinberg said were the reason he came to the theater
so that's kind of cool um anyway um what I want to mention and it really goes along the lines of maintenance when we put that compass rose in um Ted had given the information to the contractor at the time who was putting in stained con concrete the stain disappeared very
quickly um we had addressed the issue of where the compass rose was placed because we had provided measurements to the contractor which he didn't um believe us. I guess didn't know we knew what we were doing and so he made the hole for the compass rose much larger than it should be. Now I know you're
keeping the compass rose. One of the things that happened was that once the compass rose was put in there were several inches of grass left between the concrete and the edge of the compass rose. That's really why the edge of the compass rose has been destroyed. Um, and
hopefully it can be put back together, but it's in a multitude of pieces. Um, the city finally, um, or the city initially at the time, um, I don't think anybody was where they are now at the time. Um, did say they were going to put concrete in or have the contractor do
that. I I followed up with the city many times, just never happened. Stone was put in there. In your pictures, you can't even see the stone any longer. It's all overgrown. So, I'm raising this and making a point of it to say that when this is redone, which I think is great to to do, um please make sure that
it is uh taken care of properly. It really should be surrounded by a solid surface. Um in addition to that, I do I'm sorry to interrupt. Vince, do you understand what what uh she's speaking about? I just want to make sure we understand what you mean. I do. Yeah, you do. And I and I actually
on the plan I do have a ring of stained concrete once the granite the the that's crumbled once that's repaired into you know new granite pieces. I have stained concrete that'll go around it to solidify so and make sure that it doesn't, you know, fall apart again.
And Ted and I have known and he's going to come out and nah, you know, so it's a it's a piece has been there and we recognized Nicole recognized that we wanted to save that and salvage it. So Ted, if I could get your assistance on
maybe the detail to re reestablish it and reconstruct, I'd be appreciative because, you know, something that we don't do on a a regular basis. Yeah. And we've known Vince for over 20 years, long time. Um, and know you to be
a trusted vendor. So, we appreciate your promises. Um, I also want to raise some concerns that I won't be I won't repeat. I just want to say that I do support the concerns that have already been raised. I especially want to point out that um the kinetic sculptures, I'd be concerned
if there isn't some sort of a wind rating or a governor put on those because that wind is terrific. Uh we have Anderson windows, too, and ours are bowing in. Um and it's the other concern I have is about the terrace seating being near uh the new concrete uh block
walkway. I really like that it's going to be the concrete walk, but um you mentioned the children. The ch I've I've been there many times and many people do bring their children there and those terrace seats are just waiting for kids to climb up on them and there multiple levels and they're right there at that concrete. So, I would I would be
concerned about that. Um I know that the purpose has been talked about as being a tranquil place, which it is and it can be. It's rare to have this kind of property right on the ocean for public use. Um people will want to continue to have weddings there. And I would think
that the the um uh uh the structure that's in the center um the gazebo should be closer to the water if possible. Also because it would provide shade for getting a real water view. There isn't really any shade that would be provided on the seating that's out
there now. So those would be the things that I'd bring up in addition to the points about bolting things down everything. Um, the last thing I'll point out, she gave me permission to. Ruth Foley is sitting over here. She doesn't want to speak, but she, you may see her, she she's been to city hall
many times. She faces the park as well, has raised many concerns about the maintenance of the park. That is our biggest concern. What will be different now to maintain it properly? And Ruth has had to call the police because if homeless people there, um, I'd be afraid if chases are provided, that's a great
sleeping place. So I would rethink, you know, just how how much use those chases would get and if that would be inviting activity that we really would rather not have. So those are the ends of my comments. Thanks. Thank you very much. Anyone else, sir?
I'm David King. We live at Two Harbor Cove. And most importantly, I want to say thank you. This park can really be so much more than it is today. I mean, it's a treasure. It's underutilized. When we first moved in 14 years ago, we
used to stand out on our deck on the second floor and wave to the people in the weddings down the gazebo and it was so much fun. It was a gorgeous place and it just fell apart from lack of maintenance. I think your design is inspired. Really brilliant.
But I think there are some real concerns in terms of the trees. the, you know, when you look through the list of the trees, the one tree there's more of than anyone else can grow up to 100 ft high. I mean, that's crazy. It really is. I'm
sorry, but a 100 foot tree in that park doesn't make sense. And beyond, you know, blocking the views, just think about the maintenance issues of those things. The wind is really I I would encourage you, you know this far better
than any of us, to reconsider the wind issues. We're right there. We're right opposite there. I have a uh a little deck out there. My we have screened in porch and the screened in porch has been blown in twice. We have 60 lb chairs
made of the polywood that get moved around by the wind on the fiberglass deck. We have a grill there that I've got two concrete blocks underneath it inside of it to hold it to keep it from moving around. The wind is really
staggering. I'm very concerned about what would happen with the kinetic sculptures over time because of that wind. The final thing was the comment that was made about the children and the walkway and the really brilliant unique seating. I mean, it's it really is
magnificent that you planned. Just be aware that we have a wonderful, wonderful place around the corner, dry dock, and all the children come down there in the middle of the summer after having their ice cream down to the park. And if they're climbing on that, you've
got rocks down just below it. And it's it's a real potential risk. And I would suggest that you reconsider or just look at that from a safety issue with children on it. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart all of you. this can be a treasure
to this city and we can't thank you enough for focusing on it. Thank you, Mr. King. And just to uh repeat, we absolutely uh want to work with you in regards to trees. So, we hear you loud and clear and uh I think Nicole does as well. So,
yeah. Yeah. Hi, I'm Kathy Ta. I live at 1411 Harbor Lane, which is across the park from D. Um, I just have some some questions. What's the timing of uh finishing the construction? But first of all, I do want to also echo what everybody said. I
am so excited to see something beautiful happening um at the park because we look out over it on all the decks in the house. Um, but what is the timing on the project being finished? So, the game plan currently is to finalize the drawings within the next four to six
weeks, go out to bid it this fall, and hopefully have a six-month construction scheduled to work uh and open the park sometime in June of 26. So, opening June of 26 is the hope. That's the hope. As long as we have a good winter.
Yes. Bad winner, I can't guarantee anything. Okay. Thank you. Um I'm happy to hear about the lighting. Um because like I said, we live right there and the lighting that's currently along the railing by the water is so bright. It's,
you know, you have we have to shut the curtains at night when it's when it's on. What's the timing of the lights? Because right now they last they stay on well into the evening. Are they going to be on all night long with a photo cell or um timer?
I don't know. Yeah. So, we could adapt this lights for a photo cell or timer. Um, we we opted not to put lights along the walkway that along the railing where it is now. Yeah. Um, we looked at that um and couldn't
find a good source that we that would take away from the view there. Yep. Vince, could you grab the microphone, please? Oh, sorry. So, I know that Nicole, we did do some underc carriage lights under under that
curve linear bench. We kind of thought that would kind of be a neat look, but one of the things and Nicole even made a ballard that she has in the office to simulate what was there. So, we were paying special attention to the ballard
look a to eliminate any off-site glare so that even when you looked at the light fixture itself, you wouldn't see a harsh glare. And a lot of people will look at a park and while the light doesn't affect their living room, they look out and they see a harsh glare and
they they take offense to it. So, yes, we were cognitive about that from the Kuanas Park uh project. Um but um we'll probably do both, have it on a timer and a photo cell, and as time goes on, we'll see what the city wants to do. So, we'll
have both options. One of my main concerns is about those spotlights that you talked about because they are the ones that's we're going to be facing up, I imagine. Um and if you look at where they're located, I think D, you might have a concern about one of them. I think it's near your near your
place. So again, the spotlights, I'm not sure they're going to be covered like you had had mentioned. Um, so anyway, please take that into consideration. Well, um, what what's happening with the current trees? Are they being taken out? Mostly,
thank goodness. Okay. Um, I agree with what everybody said regarding the number of trees and I appreciate the fact that you said that you'll involve the community in that. Um, but how will that work? Will you take comments and then take it under consideration and then do
what? Actually, I was going to take direction from the mayor, but my thought was to contact D, who I've known for 40 years, and for her to get her neighbors together and come out to the site and um you know, some I know I know the McKenna
is um and I'll probably leave it to D to kind of rodeo all the mayor the neighbors in and we'll come out. we'll take a look at it and we'll have a a discussion regarding it. I mean, I think that would be the best way to do it. Um to involve all the neighbors that want
to be involved. Okay. Um I also want to point out that when we first moved to the area, Harbor Lane was completely flat. There were no BMS and all there was there might have been a few bushes. Um, but for the most
part it was completely flat and the maintenance crew took care of it because all they had to do is mow the lawn and they're really good at doing that. Um, and then I think it was a nature center that put in all of the BMS. Am I right, Mary? Yeah. Um, and it looked lovely for
a time, but it immediately fell into disrepair. I mean, there it was never weeded. We have pictures that we can show everybody. I took them yesterday and and somebody else took them as well. um just showing just how invasive all of
the weeds are. Maybe you don't have a budget yet for the maintenance, but um like what do you plan on hiring like a professional landscape maintenance crew to pull the weeds and
deal with hopefully only bonsai trees, but we'll see. I don't know what is there a plan. And if there isn't a plan, then I I really do think that there should be a plan before any constru any construction gets started on this
because I don't know what's going to be different now than when the nature center did all of the BMS and planted all those trees. All I can say is that some of the things that we do as part of the construction cut down on maintenance. We put vapor weed barriers down and things of that
nature uh to help with the sustainability, but like anything it does need to m be maintained and you know that's part of the city's goal is you know once you have something new I think it's a little easier sometime to maintain and especially when it
you know starts out to be good. So I think uh I think the city will pay special attention to maintenance as they are at Kuanas Park. You know that it's now getting maintained. So I think as the we start to improve the parks there'll be a little bit more maintenance consideration.
I hope so. Um and one last thing I know that um Ruthie was the one that mentioned this yesterday and that is um to invite everybody here today to actually go to the park tomorrow or Thursday and experience the wind. I
mean, the wind actually opens my sc my doors. Um, and so unless they're locked, they the wind will just open them. So, um, it's really important, I think, especially for the, you know, um, landscape architects to experience the wind firsthand. And tomorrow and
Thursday, it's going to be quite bad. But, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else on the park? I'm Stephanie Snyder from One Wilmington Avenue. Um I just had a few questions.
Um are the kinetic sculptures already commissioned? Um no. No. Okay. In a previous um uh proposed plan, preliminary drawing, it said the sculpture could include
fixed permanent elements such as original sculptures, monuments, and memorials. Is that still true? We um we have a spot for a local commissioned um sculpture. So along the prominade, I have a 4ft x4t concrete pad there and there'll
be um recessed lighting at that area. So that could be a piece that is permanent. Um but that was our local commission spot. So we could find it might be a rotational thing. I'm not really sure, you know, what the plan with that would be, but um yes, we we still do uh plan
to incorporate the local commission piece. Okay. And then lastly, this might be more for city council and the mayor. Would passing resolution 254-08-2025 eliminate the possibility of the USS Jacob Jones Memorial being placed at
Harbor View Park. I don't think it eliminates anything really. I mean, the park could evolve over the years. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else from the public on on Harborview Park?
Okay, seeing that, we'll close public comment on Harborview Park. Um, council, any more questions on Harborview? I know we got two more uh topics, so uh thank you very much. Appreciate it. Great job, Nicole. Thank you. Um, Vince, you want to take
it away on um sidewalk maybe? And wish Nicole a happy birthday. Tomorrow is her birthday. Happy birthday, Nicole. Happy birthday. Maybe you can have a uh you can blow out the birthday candles at Harborview Park
tomorrow to check out that wind. win for your birthday. We're going to leave those exhibit boards with you, too, so you'll have those. Yeah. Thank Thank you, Vince. So, the next two projects aren't as sexy
as Harborview Park. They're I think we're okay with that right now. Uh um so Patrick has been working on um the sidewalk reverberation project and so
um we started probably in early summer looking at uh the streets between and help me Patrick with the streets. Uh we started off looking at Ocean A from Washington Street Mall all the way to Beach Avenue and then we did the entirety of Columbia Avenue as well as
Virginia Avenue from Col or from Madison, excuse me, all the way over. So what the project entailed was to uh go out do a visual analysis of what's there and come up with a game plan of sidewalk and curb restoration
um and keeping with the same type of elements. So, if there's slate there, we're going to reuse a new slate. If there's concrete, we'll do concrete and so on and so on. A brick. Um, so Patrick has done the study area.
Um, he's walked it, he ran it, he's uh he's a local, he lives in West Kate May, so he's very familiar with it. So, he was able to go out and do a quantitative analysis of of all the streets. And um I'm going
to let him describe what we what we did and some of our findings and the game plan uh would be is once we had the uh approval this evening, we would go out to bid. I know that your manager is
looking to contact all the residents because there's going to be a sharing um component to this with the residents. Um so that uh I'm not sure what that component will be but I know that the idea has to do a
collaborative so that um collectively I think the city could do it much cheaper and uh hopefully the public will buy into a cost sharing. Thank you. Um, right. So, in in trying
to do the quantitative analysis, what we did is we went to each street and really just tried to find anything of obstacle, anything that could cause you to trip. Anything for someone walking if they weren't immediately looking at their feet would cause some sort of
impediment. And even more to that point, um, accessibility. A lot of the sidewalks that we were looking at just due to the street trees and how old they are have either deteriorated over time. They've been repaired maybe uh not so
much from an engineering standpoint more so just to make sure that it's no longer deteriorating and and over time that's really compounded on itself. Um so on Ocean Street as well as Columbia uh the majority I would say uh slate sidewalks
and and and looking at that we aren't looking to entirely replace the slate sidewalks but as as Vince was saying um more on an as directed and maybe even if we can reuse some of what's there uh do
that and as far as the concrete would go it would be a full replacement. So when we started going out, it was more for a scope and it kind of grew. We started off with, like I said, the Ocean Avenue,
Columbia Avenue, and Virginia Avenue. And we've even uh expanded, excuse me, we've even expanded to some sites away from those streets where uh it was an extreme limit to accessibility. Uh we have some sites on Maryland Avenue, Ohio
Avenue, further in um even even on to Beach Avenue. I think a nice a project of this nature um allows the city to you know define a scope but as we move along and you know
depending on pricing we'll be able to expand that up to 20% if we have some other geographic areas. We thought that, you know, your direction from your city manager was, you know, let's keep it tight. Let's keep it to a certain geographic area for now and instead of
do the whole city. So, this was our first phase and I know there's probably subsequent phases that will occur over the years. Um, but I think this is a would be a good format um, a for the bidding purposes and for
the public. So as people are looking, they know exactly what our plans are, what the square yardage is going to be. Um, and we'll be able to tell what, you know, a definitive number to a person that living in a street. You know, we're going to replace your curb, your
sidewalk, your driveway, and it's going to cost $2,000. We'll have those numbers. It won't be any guessing. And there your fair share is X. So um
again it this was is instead of doing a project as where and needed direct it because that could get into a lot of different scopes. That's why we wanted to define the areas specifically so that somebody who's bidding it is going to be able to go out and see exactly what the
scope of work is. And I think accordingly we'll get a better price. So, uh, Vince, excuse me. Uh, will you be notifying the property owners prior to going out to let them know that they have been assessed and potentially you
I'll let Mr. Deers answer that, Paul. Yeah. The the hope is once council authorizes this project, we'll we'll start sending out the notices to the property owners identifying how much quantity that they have on their property that we're looking to replace. And then based on uh an engineer's
estimate, estimate what the price would be at this point so that they kind of aware of what we're looking at. And then uh when the project would come out and be before as we would award it, we then recont the the property owners and say, "Okay, we got the bids in and this is
the cost and this is the your share of that cost." Similar to what we've been doing with the Shade Tree Commission has been doing the 50/50 program. uh we were looking at a 20 to 30% kind of a cost share with a property owner to um share in that cost and if necessary they could make some
accommodation. We would looking at you know obviously just want to make sure that we're not we would be able to put them on a you know a kind of like a payment plan you can't pay at all right now but you can pay over five years or you know we'll work on okay uh that ultimate plan but that's that
would be the intent not to come out and say oh you owe us this next month. um but look at a phased in program so that they can pay for it over a couple years. But essentially this plan is to save everybody money in the bigger picture. Yes, it's exactly it.
That's exactly it. And I think the big thing is to increase public safety because the homeowners may or may not be aware that they're responsible for that sidewalk. If I'm walking down the sidewalk and I had a couple of beers and I trip and get hurt, they're
responsible, not the city. So, and and 100% responsible for replacement unless there's a shade tree and then there's 50. Exactly. So, I think this project is I I hopefully well received by the community because you know the sea is being proactive to avoid any problems
for you in the future. So, I I don't see Virginia on there, but you mentioned that. So, that we just got to the first sheet. So, each of those plan sheets have a different So there's not as much like when you saw Columbia Avenue, it was there was a lot
of slate in there. So you saw that. But here on Virginia Avenue, there's not as much as you as Okay. when they went down Virginia. Mhm. And then here's Virginia, Pittsburgh. So we, you know, we essentially tried to create a corridor from one end of town
to the other end of town. And then shade tree has been I'll say this year as they've been getting in the requests we'll be adding those we've added those uh also to the project as like an if and where directed and so to add them to the
uh the list and as been said the hope is I think if you recall last year the council budgeted $600,000 for sidewalk replacements. I I don't think that this this work is going to quite total up to $600,000, but we needed to figure out a
scope of what we could do. And then the anticipation is once this was done and once we had a good feel for how these are going to be contracted, how the contractors are going to look at that that that we'll start looking at other areas within the city and kind of create court I think we want to work on
creating corridors that you know of you know and we're going to start in areas where people are walking more and then work our way uh throughout the city that way. Right. And these are the areas I mean specifically Columbia and um ocean those
are more tourists there's more people walking around and even just with more people being here they tend to explore out from the mall a little more and this is the immediate area that that's taking place now. So the a little bit most necessary but also the most need to be
addressed. Yeah. Can you get into before you get out of the slate discussion? Um, we've obviously had this discussion, but I want the public to hear a little bit. Uh, most people recognize the Historic Preservation Commission requires that
you keep the slate, which we totally understand. Um uh and actually if if you look up the cost of slate today, it's like when you get a cost estimate for your slate or marble countertop, it it's not very
different for outside. Um it's very expensive. Uh however, the replacement that homeowners have done over the years really uh I would say is lacking in a lot of locations. I mean, obviously people who walk Columbia Avenue know a
lot of it is just basically on top of, you know, hampered down sand or or just dirt. Um, what what Patrick is talking about is uh actually putting down basically a concrete base first and then laying the
uh slate onto it. So essentially uh creating almost a concrete sidewalk with the slate on top of it essentially to some degree. something to be a little bit more sustainable. Yeah. In time. Yeah. Correct. Um and and what happens, you know, people don't want to get rid of the old
slate, so they're bringing it up and they're, you know, one piece now becomes four pieces and right, you know, so we are going to try to reuse as much as practical, right? you know, obviously, um, it it'll be a challenge, but I think
having the details that we have and having this in that geographic area is going to bring a better price because of the the amount of quantity because you call some, like you said, Mary, if you call somebody just to do 40 square feet or 80 square feet,
it's going to be a big number. But if they're doing 400 square feet, right, it's going to be a little bit better. It'll be a little bit more cost savings. Yeah. It's all about mobility, too. Yeah. People get them down here. Once they're here, they can do the work. Exactly.
Patrick, we interrupted you. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, no, no. That's that's quite all right. Um I was kind of just going to reiterate what you and and Vince both said with the slate. Um, I think with the areas that we determined actually need repair, uh, our our goal was to
take that specific area and, uh, even if, you know, next to a broken piece there isn't, uh, there's a piece that doesn't need repair. Uh, on that entire stretch, we take everything up. What can be reused, we will will be reused. What needs to be replaced will be replaced. But again, uh there will be a concrete
base, uh maybe some sort of leveling sand and then on top of the slate. So the appearance would be the same, but in terms of durability over time and especially people driving over it and say in driveways, uh it'll it'll extend
the life greatly. Great. Well, that's all we have with that one. Okay. Any any questions, council? Okay, move right on to uh tennis club. I
I'll kind of give the preamble. So, the the city was successful, as I'm sure you're aware, to receive two ADA grants um for handicap accessibility for that section of town. Now, one of the things that we wanted to
to accomplish here is kind of tie the Madison Avenue sidewalk through Kuanas Park into the tennis club. Um, so the idea is to create a contiguous walkway
from well Madison and of course other locations, but through the Quanis Park um down through the FSBook of the state and back out to uh Washington. Um, we also have part of this the
um renovation of the bathrooms there. all the I shouldn't say renovation, actually the inclusion of a handicap bathroom uh for the tennis club and handicap ramp into a uh patio area that the club currently utilizes.
Um Vince, can I just add for those who don't know uh in the public, the city of Kate May owns the tennis club. That that that's why one of the important portions of adding the handicap restroom. Exactly.
So Patrick's job here was all right, how are we going to figure out the route and and what is the best methodology to do this? And uh after a number of site visits and working along with your city manager who happens to be an engineer
who understands these things, um uh we came up with the plan. I'll let Patrick kind of describe to you uh what our intent is. And and if I could just jump in right before that, Vince, um we also met with the tennis club and with the
MAC regarding the physics state and and and really walk these routes with them. So, you know, they they have kind of their buy in and and they've said, "Yeah, this is the best way to traverse through the site." So, it has been, you know, we we've been working handinand
with both of those organizations to create this ADA access. And we may because of the bathroom, we may do it in two phases. We may do the sidewalk and the access to the uh pro shop and that
uh the gazebo on the tennis club as one project. And because it's a building with a restroom, it might be better to bid that separately than from a concrete sidewalk project. And that would be kind of a separate thing. And also reminder, we got this. We received the city
received two grants from the DCA as small cities grant to construct this project. So that's we're essentially using grant funding for this project as long as a city a 10% city match. That's great. All right. So again, just
to re reiterate, uh really the goal of the pathway is just to connect everything, connect the new Quantis Park, uh with the entirety of the tennis club and in working with the members of the tennis club, uh one of their biggest concerns as is around town parking. Um
so that kind of led to the current layout, uh that you see for the path where it connects with the sidewalk coming out of Kuanas Club uh where this little roundabout is. It'll go down and uh buffer just by a few feet along these uh southernmost tennis courts. All the
way over here there you can see a little bump up. There's a couple uh storage sheds that are currently there. We'll go around those, come back down almost all the way over to where the trolleys are kept and then make our way up all the way to the sidewalk here where there's
also I believe uh ADA crosswalk. Um, and so in staying down here, um, I don't know if anybody's ever been to the tennis club in the morning. It is packed. It's packed beyond packed. You can't turn around. You can hardly even park. And so what we're trying to do here is remain the turn keep the
turnaround and excuse me, keep as much possible parking as we can along the bottom. Um the the changes that have come about really have all been from the parking. We have a
couple uh possible pathways to connect the actual pro shop to this walkway. Um but but really it's it's just been the parking. Um yeah,
I think it's um a really good uh how you have it running right along the fence. Still can have parking there on the other side, but it obviously makes it ADA accessible. And when this is completed, I actually wanted to see um as included as part of the project a
sign on Washington um just directing people. I think we really need to come up with the bicycle and pedestrian committee some, you know, uniform signage for safe routes, you know, safe, you know, get off a Washington street and take this sidewalk to connector to
Madison, you know, and even for bicycles, which we don't want on the sidewalk itself, but, you know, going through there rather than going on Washington Street is definitely a safer route to go. Um, so it'd be nice if we could include some type of small signage, nothing big, because I'm sure
Mac doesn't want a big, you know, but um to hey, safe route this way to Madison, you know, to get off of Washington. They have one over on um Elmyra. They do. Yeah. Which tells you Yeah. to go back down Venice. And even to add on to that, keeping people off of Lafayette as well.
Exactly. Washington and Exactly. 10 to here. And to follow up on the on the mayor's remarks, as Kowuanas Park has become more established in um in in people's minds as an area to go, people have been cutting the corner and going
through Kowanas Park and going that way. So, which is first off, that's making the route shorter. It is making the route safer, but people are kind of learning on their own. So if we can do something to promote that more and uh utilize that and this provides a great pathway as
well. It's safer obviously navigating through there as well because we do have traffic going through there, foot traffic, bike traffic and as you as you um mentioned a lot of car traffic as well. So knowing that it just um forces the foot traffic in a certain certain way is
uh is really good for us and and even just to encourage more foot traffic. I mean, uh, there's, like you said, people are cutting across the grass, but some people may not want to do that, and they may take their car over to the tennis club to park for lessons, and this might lessen that.
That's great. Any other questions? I have a question for city council. Sure. And, uh, this has been brought up to me a number of times this summer. Uh, the question is, when are we going to put the striping in for that crosswalk on Washington Street? Because I think we should do that as that's one of our discussion items after
meeting, but go ahead. So because when council when we delayed installing the crosswalks when we were having the discussion about the brick crosswalks on on the whole street of Washington um the contractor kind of I'll say demobilized their striping
contractor and that contractors had a difficult time re-engaging with their striping contractor to complete that. the city still hold is holding his you know that project money as well as his you know um retainage for it. So you
know he had asked to kind of close that project out and we said I need you to finish that striping. So there's about six crosswalks from essentially Jefferson down to Sydney that need to be
installed. The one being here at Skellinger is is included in that. Yes. Okay. So, we we've been myself, uh, Eric at public works, uh, the project engineer, we've all been calling the contractor to try
to get him to do that. So, Councilman Meyer, I actually made the phone call last week, too, just uh, to personally hear from the contractor, and he guaranteed within the next few weeks. I said, "School's coming up soon." And he said, "I hear you." So, okay.
Yeah. So, that's all we have, Mayor. Other than I just, you know, one of the uh other projects that we just finished and I want to give a little accolades call again was um Franklin Street uh project was her project and uh I think the I
know I'm really happy with the outcome there. I really think that became really a focal for the community there. So uh really beautiful. That's you know she did a nice job there. Thank you. Yeah, beautiful. All right, guys. Well, thank you all very much. You're welcome.
And so the public should know if if the uh council moves forward, uh these three projects are on for on the consent agenda to authorize um Vince to go out to bid for these. Obviously with Harborview Park, we're going to have to revisit some of the landscaping before we finalize and put it out. But I will
start putting these project uh uh documents up onto the city's website so the public can have a full review of these plans and be more fully aware of the the schedule and stuff like that. So I I'll get that up on the website uh following this meeting as long as the
projects get approved. And I'll I'll take the time to go out and uh reach out to Danzelotti and maybe a small community maybe uh Deputy Mayor McDade. um we'll go meet with them and see what they want. I think that's the best way to handle it here would have
been timeconuming and um no absolutely agree I think it's all good feedback obviously they live there um you know uh they're in close proximity so let's get their input um and you know I'm I trust Nicole's uh judgment on what we can put in there
that is not going to be so Willow Oak won't grow 100 feet here so you know and and will you know be um able to be easily maintained and not over some overly burdensome So I'm h more than happy to participate. There's a compromise there and you know absolutely.
Yeah. It's that's the least of our issues. Absolutely. Nicole, can just on that when when you come to a closer to final decision on that, would you just make sure that Mr. Meyer's involved too for just to there's already been approval.
If you do have that meeting, just have let me know. I'll have my main shade tree guy go out there. He's our tree expert and he'll just be part of the conversation, not necessarily force it in direction. for the mayor. If we could pull environmental in on that, environmental commission in on that as well is um like to be able to have an opportunity to review that.
Well, maybe also at the end, Nicole, put it together the summary list. You might have what was planned and what has now been changed and will be part of the proposed so that it's a part of the record for shade tree and environmental. Um that way just in case we miss anybody but you
know any of the documented changes. Okay. what got switched out that way we call on all that. Um I I would appreciate if we could put it together sooner than later because as you know being a six-month project every month on this end is going to help us on
the uh July end. So I don't Yeah, we all know Yeah, exactly. I'll reach out for D and maybe schedule something for next week, maybe later in the day. That's great. uh you know and uh and Nicole, I think you heard loud and clear, so you probably already have some
ideas. I do. Oh, yeah. I'm sure. So, yeah. Great. Great. Patrick, Nicole, Vince, thank you very much. We really appreciate it. Oh, please. I'm sorry. Not a question really for you. It's I think it's more for our attorney and manager um with the um the ADA at the
tennis club since I think it's a great idea that you're putting it out into similar what we did at Quantas Park um just because of the concerned about the bids coming in at a better price and it makes sense. Um but with us doing it in two possibly you know a phase one and a
phase two um is it okay that we put it out or or that we have it the way it is on the agenda currently? Yes it is. Okay. And and that's just going to authorize us to do that portion. So when we get the bathroom portion ready, that'll come back to council, you'll see that phase
of that project and reauthorize that to go out to bid separately. Okay. So we'll reauthorize it. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We'll we'll look at that at a separate time. Okay. We did have a concern and Mark Blauer, your grant coordinator, did confirm with DCA that we could do the
project together and bifurcate the um the bathroom out that going to go in that old shed area that Exactly. Yeah. So, okay. And you're still able to get that walkway through there? I know that there's a lot of concern about that. I
play tennis there. We're working we're working with the tennis club on on that okay issue. Well, the vegetation has to come out and that's the that's the big one. Yeah. You know, but you know, can't have it both ways. And that's, you know, we Well, no, it's it's plenty wide to
meet that. But what what it's going to involve is the tennis club is going to have to spend some of their dollars to replace the fencing. Really, that's becomes because if you if you really get down and start looking at it, that fencing is old and it really needs that
needs a refresh. And then also if you take out the landscaping that kind of creates that visual barrier between the two tennis courts, then you got to put some screening on the fencing to kind of create that visual barrier for the the play of the tennis. We think the fabric is going to be a
much better alternative than that landscaping. I agree. I Yeah. So are there is there any um uh irrigation that runs under there? We have no idea. I don't think so because it's going to it's going to um
do something to some of those clay courts there as well. So, there'll be some rehab there, too. Yeah. Okay. I knew that was a concern. Thank you. Thanks everyone. Okay. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Okay. With that, we have uh updates and
old business. City manager, any updates? Uh just a few. First, I wanted to just give an update on uh the recycling uh residential recycling and commercial recycling collection. Um, I'm happy to report as of now
all of our businesses, commercial properties, multif family properties, and residential properties are in general conformance with the limits that council established with that revised ordinance. Um, you know, public works has done a good job at the public
outreach. I've helped out in just a very few minor occasions to try to work through some issues, but you know, I think everybody has done a good job at at adapting and and understanding the need for um you know, some some limits.
So, it's gone through really well and you know, everybody's at this point abiding from the controls. We're still doing some outreach generally on on part of our recycling ordinance that was in existence prior to this one. had nothing to do with this new ordinance as far as
putting recycling out too early and proper containers and lids and all those other recycling collection items. But um it's that's going to be a a phase in thing and that's just kind of their next step as far as their outreach. But I just want
to say we had a good outreach so far and just real quick, yeah, that's good news. I haven't really heard too much and from the bid it's been good. Right. Um we when we originally put this ordinance together, we were talking about having an a report and I just want to
So come I've been working with Eric has been collecting the data and and and going to have a report um by this. But I mean at this point everybody's in compliance. So I that was the the positive thing that you know that we'll be able to show. But
I just but yeah, he he kne we know that we're going to have to in the fall after summertime come up with a report to show just how you know what how how the amounts that we were collecting in the beginning and how they've diminished and how now how
they're meeting the uh ordinance requirements. Okay. Um, the next thing I just wanted to, um, talk to, uh, they've been working with Merkantile licenses. I think we're just down to a
handful of leftovers, I'll say, from their our mercantile list. It's a handful. It's a handful. Um, however, we've in now inputed that mercantile list into our rentalscape program and we got an initial report
back uh from them uh 900 possible properties that are in violation that are out there on the rental market and not in violation. Now, I'm going to assume there's probably going to be some duplications of some of those properties and, you know, maybe
some that have gotten a merkantile that were there, but it's still going to it's I think, you know, so we're now I just reporting that to council and now we're kind of going to be printing out that list. I'm going to be working with the
clerk's office and code enforcement and we're now going to move into the enforcement end of the um short-term rental program. Um but I just wanted to give council that's kind of where we where we're at right now. and and you know obviously the rental escape program
has a very good database and very good ability to show that they've been renting not only this year but in 2024 back to almost 2018. So it's a very robust program you know. So, if we get somebody saying,
"Oh, that's not me or that." We've got pictures. We've got the whole thing. And um we will be starting that enforcement here over the next couple weeks. And then finally, I just want to, you know, the um the city and the entire OEM team
in public works is been um prepping having uh update meetings on uh the impending uh K city clerk hurricane that is out in the ocean right now. um that's coming up the coast. Uh the beaches were closed today for bathing.
The beaches, you know, the beaches aren't closed that if you still wanted to walk the ADA path and you know, we're not preventing people from being out on the beach, but you definitely should not be in the water, you know, now through Thursday, um or until the lifeguard uh
reopens the beaches as far as bathing. So, I just can't reiterate that. Yeah, we have another call scheduled for tomorrow because Thursday is supposed to be the real day. Um, you know, the the last today and tomorrow are also, but Thursday's um very uh troublesome as
with regard to sort of the the current and the rip tide, right? Um we we put up on the convention hall marquee um messaging for people to know there so that they could see that. In addition to um Harry did put out signs
at each of the beach entrances. So um there will be another update at at 2:00 tomorrow afternoon. Yeah. So OEM will get back together tomorrow afternoon at two and lifeguard will be you know patrolling and manning the beaches and just directing people to to not enter
the the ocean. And you know, you may think it's fun to go out there and try to to do it in the storm, but please, you know, you need to be safe and just stay out of the water for now until it's safe to get back in there. So, can't caution people enough about
that. Um, and with that, uh, I just also want to reiterate because we, you know, our next meeting is essentially the Wednesday after Labor Day. that that week of Labor Day, we're going to have several of our construction projects will be starting
back up. Um, you know, we're going to have the rehabilitation of the prominade will be restarting. Uh, we have our water sewer project which they'll be starting on Illinois Avenue. Um, so just to be, you know, as we move into as as
the end of the official part of the summer ends, uh, so does our contractors, um, home construction starts to ramp up because piling and demolition can now begin. So, you're going to see more activity on that
front. So, just, um, just be aware of that and, uh, be cautious. So, thank you. Thank you. uh city manager, city solicitor. I just have a just a heads up to council um that there was a discussion last
night at the HPC meeting and there's there's two uh policy initiatives that they're were discussed and they're going to be recommending to council that you take up for consideration. And I'll get council more detail on this for you all to consider, but I just wanted to
preview it because it was discussed last night. One is uh sort of a preventative item in the historic district that many towns with significant historic resources have such as New Orleans which is a demolition by neglect ordinance.
Just provides some options in those rare cases where historic properties in the historic district fall into disrepair. It may be a portion of the property. It may be the entire thing. It just provides some options, clear, you know, roadmap for the city to engage with the
property owner and take some action whether it's preventative or just from an enforcement standpoint getting that conversation going. Um, so that's one and I'll I have uh sort of an outline of a proposal for an ordinance that council may consider. The second thing is a
little bit more straightforward and more on the proactive side of things. um public facing. We have three certificates that are issued when uh property changes hands in the city of Kate May. That's this certificate of flood compliance, fire
inspection, and then certificate of zoning compliance. Very straightforward certificate. If you look at it, it's one page, you know, big bold face indicating, you know, your property is either in conformance with the zoning code or not. Um, and the the idea is,
and everybody knows that ignorance of the law is not a defense. If you don't know, oh, I didn't know I was in a historic district, doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. Everybody knows that. But in order to get ahead of that and sort of get the HPC's goals and missions out front, it's been
recommended that information about the historic district be included on the zoning certificate that's issued in connection with closing. So that when somebody gets that at closing and say oh I'm in you know I have a multif family property in X location it would also
simply indicate are you in the historic local historic district yes or no what kind of property is a key contributing non-contributing and then just FYI about the code sections that are applicable so it it's more of like a PSA when when you
go to closing in addition to the zoning information and something that could probably very efficiently be rolled into an existing certificate process that we already have. Um Oh, I'm sorry. And and that process because our zoning officer is also our HPC compliance
officer, you know, that that's probably the best tie to tie them together because he he sees on both ends and he'll be able to kind of issue that and and state that right as part of his zoning compliance. I actually um I believe the another district that
because it has such a unique set of zoning requirements, the R4 could benefit from uh consideration of something like this. There are many times that I think um Bruce has gone out when he's doing these and um pointing out to the sellers of properties that they have um they're not in conformance
with some of the the zoning guidelines. I just put it out there as a point. um you know you have people who have um rehabbed um upstairs attic spaces as living accommodations that you know are that go on there because of the different housing type singles, twins
and quads that I don't know uh I would say talk to Bruce if he sees any applicability there. I think it might be beneficial but I know it's not along the same lines but um as um Mr. hurles often says that the R4 has the most restrictive zoning guidelines in the
city. So, I'm sure outside the HPC, just put it out there for consideration. Like, it might come as a surprise to some people that you pools aren't permitted in the R4 and all of a sudden that's some form of surprise when it's, you know, there's no secret about that in the city code. Um,
but that that kind of spirit is what the HPC was looking at is just kind of getting ahead of that that sentiment and just saying here's the information. So anyway, I'm going to circulate draft ordinances to council for council's consideration and then invite your comments offline and we can
potentially consider um you know that at an upcoming meeting. There was one thing that came up at the meeting yesterday. You know what zone? We just did the the initial historic zone. So there are certain things that the council might want to consider, you know, adding, subtracting, whatever. So,
um, and then also kind of to piggyback with what you said as far as the the going to closing, you know, are you a key contributing or you're not, um, the HPC is going to develop um, kind of like a brochure. It's going to be an easier
uh, easier read for somebody than most of the legal things that come at closing. And that would be updated should there be uh, more inclusion of a property within the historic district. I know that times they've expanded upon the the idea of that what
right what uh councilwoman Baldwin's referencing is the ordinance proposes amending this zoning certific certificate which is just a onepage clinical looking you're diagnosed with whatever zone and it's HPC or not
the HPC is also considering more of a friendlier fluffier letter explaining kind of you know the HPC's view on instead of condolences. You're in the HPC. More of a congratulations letter. So that
well that would be a twist. The the discussion that I had last night with the HPC was that is perhaps something that we don't need to legislate but that they can develop from a policy standpoint because it may change over the years but it's something that can probably be coupled with the
delivery of the zoning cert the formal zoning certificate. Yeah. which which you could probably piggyback that same type of a letter. You could almost create an R4, welcome to the R4 and have that similar handout that would go with that and just say hey I think it would be very
welcome to the R4 district. This is this is what you where accessory structures are able to be located, what you're permitted to do, what you're not. This is what your real estate agent forgot to tell you. Do you have parking or not? And uh as the tree hugger in this group, I think
uh there's a an option for, you know, we just had a person come to our board the other day saying that he lives in another state and he didn't know he couldn't cut his tree down even though he had two dozen pictures of it before he cut it down. Um I think it's important for people to know that they can't be trimming street trees and they
can't be taking down to personal trees because it will be a financial effect to them. That's all just a thought. Yeah. Thank you. Um, anything else, city solicitor? That's it. City Council, any updates or old
business? No. Seeing none, we can move to ordinances for introduction. Ordinance for introduction. Single. Yeah, we have 576 2025, an ordinance amending chapter 525 of the zoning code to promote workforce and long-term housing opportunities in the
C1 zoning district for introduction. Do I have a motion? I'll make the motion. Do I have a second? I'll second questions or comments. Council, this is great. About time we made this. Um,
any other comments? Yeah, I'll make a few comments. Um, I know that typically we we send ordinances to the planning board uh for the master plan um to make sure Yeah. consistent with the master plan.
Um, and that's in our code. Uh, and I think that if we could hold this up for 35 days instead of having them come back to us and have something maybe substantially reviewed, I'm concerned because the C1 district at this point is actually more than just the mall. Um, I
also know that there are uh I know of two current uh properties in the C1 district that are deed restricted. Um, so a deed restriction would supersede uh this ordinance. I just I just want to make sure that we have everything kind
of covered and I don't think this is a real rush to push this today, but I think that we can um you know there is some priority because I'll let you go. Okay. Uh can I just respond back? So it
specifically states in the ordinance that this was something that came out of the master plan that was ratified by the planning board back in 2019 and the language there talks to I mean this is language right out of the master plan. So this planning board has considered
this they considered it in 2019 and have most recently have had discussions specific to this issue. Now in talking with Mr. Herless uh this afternoon, you know, I said, you know, um are you concerned? And he said, Moren, this is following protocol and procedure. It
will come back to the planning board. And at that time, if they want to make any revisions to what is being proposed, we would do so at that meeting, and then it would come back to council with the modified or revised language. So, I mean, I believe that the the way this is
laid out, it is finally something that was in the master plan in 2019. we're acting upon it. Planning board will have the capability to be able to discuss it, debate it, revise it before it comes back for se second reading and adoption.
So this is just an introduction to us. Are we, you know, sort of um, you know, supporting this the concept. Now whether or not it's the C1 and whether or not it's just certain locations within the C1, I think the planning board can make make those recommendations back to us
without changing the spirit of what we're trying to int to do here, which I think is um finally supporting an effort that we all recognize and talk about about the need for workforce housing. Um, so I I don't think having a I mean
this process that we're following is absolutely Can I ask the solicitor about that? C can you comment on the process? So this the process is laid out in the ordinance that before we do a final adoption on
second reading, we want to make sure that this goes to the planning board and it's reviewed for master plan consistency, which if you adopted it on first reading in Senate, it certainly would. We've gotten into the habit of not even beginning that process before we send a draft concept to them. They
send us our comments and then we zip through first and second reading. You can do it either way. There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing illegal about it. The important thing is that by the time we get to second reading and we adopt this that at some point the planning board has reviewed for master
plan consistency before that point. we've just gotten into the habit of doing it for efficiency sake to make sure that we're not like volleying this back and forth and editing it and republishing and all that stuff. So, I think that's a good practice. Um, but I don't have a problem with this being
presented tonight because it is so tailored to a recommendation they've already put in writing o almost eight years ago or whatever it was. So, we're really reacting to something they've already indicated as a priority from a master plan standpoint. So, it's not
like completely coming out of the blue as like some concept council dreamed up. We're This is in reaction to something that's in the master plan re-examination report. Mr. Mr. Dietrich, you were going to say something. I mean, I think that when you look at anytime you change an ordinance,
you you always have a potential to have an existing use that maybe that this proposed use would make that nonconforming. So that if as long as if they exist and they can document that they exist today. So we, you know, we have I think Aaron went through and
identified several properties within the C1 district that that would fit this an apartment over retail that exists today. they would be able to continue infant item as long as they don't change what they're doing because that they
would just be classified as an existing non-conforming use and would be able to remain. I'm I'm not opposed to the ordinance. I'm just I'm just wondering are we jumping the gun. I think we might be a little bit it's only 35 days and at this point since 200 what 19 when the master
plan was written till now nothing was done. Let's wait another 35 days. let let's come back clean and take a look at some of the issues that you know you know as far as you know solicitor I don't know you know I I'm pretty sure I looked it
up I'm pretty sure a deed restriction overrides an ordinance um in terms of how there's there there was a there was an applicant that came in that was in the C1 district that um actually it's two
owners um that there was a deed restriction on the uh on the second floor use that it could never be used as apartments and this is in the district. So that would change this and that's what I want the planning board to look at to see but apartment but apartments are already
permitted in the C1 district. So really all you're doing is changing the how the apartment would be utili how the apartment would be utilized in the future not exist anything existing. Yeah. Ju just to be clear for anybody listening that's not at this table and that's why I said what I said.
Yeah. It's important to highlight that because people this can get out of control really quickly. This is a proposed permitted use change to encourage workforce and long-term housing. If you have a current lawfully operated merkantielicensed
apartment, correct? This is not going to change that. Okay. But the minute you start making changes to the building, oh, I want to change everything around inside. Oh, but I want to put an apartment. Well, then that's when this type of thing comes in prospectively. And anybody that's not
using any of that space above and it's not operated that way would have the opportunity to turn to this and say, "Hey, you know what? I'd like to start utilizing that." But we're not we're not looking backward at people that have lawfully existing uses right now.
So the timing of this is really up to council. It doesn't make really I don't I als I don't see the emergency. I also don't see necessarily a reason to wait on this either because we've already brought in Mr. Hurles to review this
before this was brought to council tonight. He's not a voting member of the planning board, but he's the engineer and he's going to he's going to be part of that essential part of that review of the master plan consistency. So, we're trying to get ahead of that. It actually did come out of the planning board conversation.
It was a very I went back and watched it. It was very general. It was, you know, kind of, hey, let's really not talk about it the, you know, okay, at, you know, at the point that they were trying to I will tell you that we probably end up about the same timeline if you send it
first and then we do first and second reading without it in the middle. 35 days. What's is that the next meeting? No, that's that's the that's in statute. Um, where we would send it to the planning board. they would have 35 days to review it, okay, and send it back to us with their um consistency with the
master plan. I mean, it's on their it's on their agenda for their next meeting on the 26th. So, it wouldn't even necessarily be 35 days cuz they're going to have to consider it. That's what I'm saying. It whatever way we do this, it's not going to really change the timeline. Just as long as they review it in a timely manner,
that's all that matters. If they review it first and they say, "Okay, this looks great." Then we just go around go back here and we can do first and second reading without have having to wait. You know, we can just So I'm I just personally I'm fine with that. Um I guess we would make a motion
to table this evening. Is that the idea? I I would make you you could make a motion to refer this draft ordinance to the planning board for master plan consistency review prior to to prior to introducing on first reading.
Okay. Before we do that, is there any other comments or questions on this on from council? The only reason I'm because the C1 district is way beyond the Washington Street Mall and I want us to really consider that. I'd like to have the planning board look at that. Some of those uses have changed
as well in that C1 district. So, I want I I really like the planning board to and it might take, you know, that that full 35 days for them to come back to us. And two of you sit on the sit on that board. So, I I you know I really think that we weigh a lot we weigh
pretty heavily on what the planning board says. Sure. Um Okay. Okay. You want to make a motion? I'd like to make a motion that we table this. Do I have a second? Uh not to table to to refer to Yes. To refer to the planning board. You're not You're not going to be voting to introduce tonight. You'd like to move
to refer it to the planning the draft ordinance for master plan consistency review before the planning board. I'll second that. I have a question. Go for it. What if they gave us some other recommendations that's not related to the master plan? Then we can consider that and potentially include them in the
introduction. So whether it's consistent with the master plan or not, if it's recommendation from the planning board, we can act on it. Yeah. Yeah, you can. And they typically do send in FYI comments that are not related to the master plan. And that's okay. We can then we'd have an opportunity to consider that before we get to second reading. We could do it at
the out the gate at first reading. That's why I'm saying the timing at this point is probably not going to make a difference because there there are a lot of parking issues in that master plan. So even taking a look at that I well I mean that that that would
undertake a much different so I would not want to tie that one one of those up with this. You're looking for general consistency of the master plan and and look but that's that's a separate discussion that's underway with another member of the planning board. So,
okay. So, we have just a I'm sorry, Mr. Solicitor, but a a point of clarification. We had an uh we had a motion and a second to introduce. Do we need to do anything with that? Uh whoever made the motion can I'll resend my motion. Resend the motion.
It was uh Deputy Mayor McDade. Oh, Deputy Mayor, do you I'll resend the motion. Okay. So, we we resend the motion and then we have a second motion from uh C Councilwoman Baldwin. Correct. Mhm. Seconded by Mr. Meyer. Um, so we we have
a motion and a second uh to send this to the planning board. Correct. Yes. Okay. I have a motion and a second. Roll call. Council member Meyer? Yes. Deputy Mayor McDade? Yes. Council member Bodner? Yes. Council member Baldwin? Yes. Mayor Mullik. Yes.
Okay. Okay. We appreciate that and we appreciate um the planning board giving us uh their recommendation. uh on to public portion on resolutions this uh almost evening. Um anyone here
wishing to speak on resolutions this evening Mr. Rous Jules Rous 1010 New York Avenue um I' I'd like to kind of review and um I'd like to thank Mr.
for an update on on the the the debt that the city has. My questions are relevant to uh to to the debt structure and correct me if I'm I'm wrong, but um according to the audit, we've got $44
million in uh net long-term debt. And but I believe that number has changed now as a result of the information that I got this evening. So, we're down to I believe that's 36.8 million. Um, and our debt, as I think
everyone knows, our debt is really structured based upon a state regulation of 3.5% of our our actual value of our real estate, which which amounts to u uh $4.9
billion. That's how we arrive at a number that we could have $171 million of total debt. And um the unusual thing is that our assessed value from real estate tax
standpoint is is a little over $3 billion. And uh that's where we come in with this revaluation which will probably take place in the next couple of years. Um, but correct me if I'm wrong that if if
the the audit number was 44 million, there was also an authorized 13.3 million that was authorized and not issued. Uh, this evening you're going to be considering two resolutions, number 260
and number 261. And in 61 you've got actually two amounts. Uh, resolution 260 refers to 8.7 million and 261 refers to 2 million plus a $7
million bond antic anticipation note authorization or those two amount to $35.7 million. My question, a couple of questions. Between the the three amounts this
evening that you're going to be considering, are any of those part of what has been authorized but not issued? Yes. Anytime we do a bond ordinance that gets adopted, um, it automatically goes
to authorized but not issued because that is us authorizing to go out for debt, just not issuing it yet. And then when we do an actual bond ordinance, it just moves from authorized but not issued to issued. Do you know about what how how much of the not issued
in effect will be cancelled by by authorization of approving a bond tonight? Um, it it would be a one for one. So, if we're doing a $20 million bond sale, anything that's authorized but not issued, it would be that same amount that moves over because everything has to be authorized through a bond
ordinance before it can go to a bond sale. Okay. So, theoretically, the 13 is not going to be is not going to even become relevant again. Correct. Yep. Um,
so the 35.7 million that you're going to be considering this evening and you add to that the current adjusted number, which I've received tonight, of 36 million, you're looking at a
significant long-term debt proposal, which goes well beyond what has ever been considered. considered by by this city in in my understanding it's not going to be exactly the um 30 million that number that you're mentioning. It would be 20 million
specifically for the current fund that's on resolution 26108 2025. The 7 million is part of a note that we already issued last year that we're just rolling over and that one's in the water sewer fund. So that has no impact on
that 3.5% limit that we're capped by. And then the 8.75 million under resolution 260. Um those are New Jersey Infrastructure Bank notes that we're taking out and there's some principal forgiveness involved in those. So that also won't be that full 8.75 million
there. It's going to be closer to 2 million I think when all is said and done. Yep. So what what will what will be the total amount of debt with the adjustments that you've just described uh in the current fund which is the one
that we have to play within that limit that 171 million that you meant it would be the 20 million. All right. Uh, and I've noticed and and I didn't have much of a chance to look at what I was receiving this evening, but um, bonding for 40 mill for 40 years
is a long time. And the amount of money that you repay on a on a 40-year bond is significantly greater, frankly, than than what I would consider to be reasonable. Uh, I hearken back to what we did with Convention Hall. that was
like a 12 or 13year bond and that that'll be paid off in another year or two. Um, and I know all these number all these terms vary significantly. There's no there's no set term, but I would like
consideration to be given to not look at 40-year bonding and try to try to try to pay down our debt. You know, some of the municipalities in our county are are looking at at at zero long-term bond debt. We're adding significantly greater
amounts every year to our to our bond debt. And frankly, what we're doing is we we're we're transferring on those payments to the next couple of generations. We're spending the money today and they're going to be paying it off in the next two or three or four generations.
Uh can I just comment on that also? Um, so the 40-year number when we do bond ordinances, all of the projects have to be assigned a useful life determined by bond council. So that's where things like buildings would get a 40-year useful life. When we actually issue the debt, however, we always issue just for
a 10 to 15 year term. That's our typical debt service lifetime. We never issue for 40 years. I just want to make that I hope not. We do not. We try to keep it short. we roll in some of the smaller projects with the bigger projects so that the average useful uh term of the bond is like I said 10 to 15 years
and there's been conversations in and previously that the the life of the items which were bonding uh particularly become um more expensive when they're five or six year life expectancy. I
would like those obviously not to be part of a bond long-term bond issue. It it really is to our to our disadvantage to do it that way in my opinion. Excuse me, Mayor. Um the other the other issue I guess comes in when you look at the amount of
bonding debt that you're creating. There's nothing in there for the delaw plant for the seaw wall. Um my concern and also is the the sand replenishment program and unfortunately hopefully Aaron doesn't come and visit us.
You stuck with me, Jules. [Laughter] [Music] But it is a concern. We've been very very fortunate for many years to not have any storm debt. We don't we don't and and I also understand we don't we're
not able to have reserves for that. But um I do caution ourselves as we move forward with this debt and think about how we have to repay it. And as if we're going to develop surplus
funds rather than sit on them, let's look at the bonds that we have and pay the bonds down. I also on occasion have mentioned to the mayor um even though we've not had a tax increase in the past years, I would
frankly like to see the city consider a 1 cent tax increase per year for the next couple of years. And that fund be used to pay down debt. I don't like debt. And that to me is is a cost that
frankly is is too burdensome on the generations to come. So um I I present those comments to you. Um a question for you, Mr. Manager. Are we going to take any kind of proactive movement of sand
in view of the potential for a storm? We're going to wait for a couple of days. There's really no for the size of our beach and and how we manage our beach. There's no really ability way to move sand from the lower beach and try
to move it up to the higher beach to save it. That doesn't No, we before that we we used to put sand up in front of convention hall. No, we're not. I mean, they're putting some a little bit in front of lifeguard just as to protect the underneath of lifeguard, but um as far as the the
beach is in sufficient condition that we don't need to do anything in front of convention hall. Um I have a couple of other questions. I don't know if there's someone else would like to speak. Go ahead, Mr. Um,
as as we go through the the projects that we have before us with the police, Harborview, the prominade, where do we really stand with regard to D approval and CAPFA permits? Do we have
those in writing in hand with our conditions? Uh, and and are they completely approved without any conditions? Oh, be before you answer that, I I do do want to just comment on one of the last things you said because I I agree with you about debt. Okay. Um, but I do want
to just make sure you understand in the last I think it's been now close to two years, if not three, we've been looking at a million dollars in interest because our debt has been costing less than our
interest that we're receiving. So I I agree with you and I think the day may come when we see those interest rates look the same. The interest looks the same uh on our uh debt as it is our investments. And at that point you say
okay we're going to pay down debt. But I just had we done that already we wouldn't have made a million dollars in interest. I just just say that to you. Look it's been about numbers. Well, for fortunately, a great deal of our our revenue is generated by users, the user
fees. Sure. Beach tags, room tax, parking meters. Um, and unfortunately, we've got interest on on our sweep accounts. Um, but I'm I'm talking really interest on
um on on um yeah, on on surplus, you know, keeping that cash, getting interest on it, you know, rather than just paying down debt has brought us in a million bucks. I I I fully understand what that's done.
Yeah. Yeah. I I just that's why that's one of the reasons. But going back to the D Yeah. uh where where do we stand with regard to the permits and and caffer so so we have for the police station building we do not need a caffer permit we have you know essentially we're just
going to need a construction permit um for I don't know if we have all the other projects that we have outstanding and currently underway we have all the necessary permits we are in the process of getting a permit a caffer permit for the lifeguard station expansion that
we're looking at Um, we've gotten the CAFRA permit for the Seaw wall expansion. We're in the final stages of receiving our CAFRA and treatment works approvals for the desalinization plant.
So, as far as permitting standpoint, we're in good shape for all the projects that we're So, it's safe to say then we're we're when we put things out to bid. When we go out to bid, we do have all the car permits or the D permits that are necessary for all of our current projects that we
have out to bid and authorized to bid. Yes. Okay. Um, thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Rous. Karen, stay away. All right. Anyone else? Anyone else this evening? Seeing none,
we can close public comment on resolutions. Um, can go to the consent agenda? Consent agenda? Yes. Council, is there anything you'd like to remove from the consent agenda this evening? Anything, council? No. Okay.
Um, I'd like to abstain from u August 5th council meeting. minutes and July 1st. Mr. Meyer, thank you. I'm going to abstain from the special meeting minutes um from July 15th, the closed session I'm voting on, but uh
that July 15th, but then the regular minute meeting uh July 15th abstain from as well. Perfect. Okay. Anything else, council? Okay. Motion to adopt the consent agenda. Council, do we have a motion? I'll make that
motion. Mayor, do I have a second? I'll second. Roll call. Council member Meyer? Yes. Deputy Mayor McDade? Yes. Council member Bodner? Yes. Council member Baldwin? Yes. Mayor Malik? Yes. Moving on to new business.
New business. City solicitor. Any new business? Nothing tonight. Thank you. City manager. Um, I did forget to mention, so, uh, we did have a wellness walk-in talk scheduled for tomorrow, but because of the pending weather, that will be rescheduled, uh, to another day
that hopefully will not be a rain day. Sorry, Mr. Bodner, it seems like you've been getting rained out every time that you schedule one. But we will we will find a day for you to get out there in the sun sunshine to do some walks. Otherwise, we're just gonna have to pick some rain jackets up for everybody and
we're just gonna have to walk in the rain. I just want to add it's not my fault. I know. It's Erin's fault. It's It's Aaron's fault. I'll take the heat for that one, guys. Sorry. Sorry to rant on your Okay. City Speaking of the city clerk,
city clerk. So yes, um manager uh Dietrich mentioned this earlier, but the city hall is closed on Labor Day, uh Monday the 1st, and the next council meeting is actually on Wednesday, September 3rd, and it's at 5:00 p.m. So this is the last 3M meeting for the
season. We're moving back to the 5:00 PM meetings um for the offseason. So through the remainder of the year, unless otherwise denoted, we will be meeting at 5:00 p.m. That's it, council. Okay, council members. Uh C, Council
Member Baldwin. So, I want to talk a little bit about what we have coming up next year because on the HPC, we've been working on um our uh national designation. It's going to be 50 years next year, which is really
exciting. We're bringing back um the HPC award plaques in a bunch of different categories. And then we're thinking about is there any way that we can do some kind of fun informative events uh for the public um kind of surrounded
around that and then furthermore the city is also uh at 175 years next year as well as the country is at a 250 year mark. So for the city of Kate May, I think it really marks a great celebration year and um I think it you
know maybe whether or not we have three separate committees working um doing HPC other you know two working on um you know the celebrations throughout the year and then all come together. I think it would be a really uh great thing for
the city to to celebrate. Um, and you know, we only have a few months uh until we're at 2026. So, um, yeah, think about it. If anybody wants to get involved, do anything. I have no problem kind of spearheading it and working with the
with the other groups. But I think it would be a a a great thing for the city of Kate May. That's great. And and we have been, you know, city administration, we have been working on some things. We also been coordinating with MAC because obviously their um
displays and and programs within the MAC they you know so we're looking at creating a um centralized logo you know to kind of celebrate all three of those events. Um also looking at possibly taking that that logo that we're developing and maybe creating a
commemorative beach tag um to kind of sell as a commemorative beach tag to celebrate. Yes. So yes, I I I think that we should continue to move forward. We possibly looking at a fun run in May because that's when the MAC kind of changes over their their displays
inside, you know, their events. So maybe looking at an early May race um to kind of, you know, commemor commemorate that season and looking at other events also. Um so do we want to make a subcommittee
now or what do you what do you I that that would be fine. Yeah. If anybody else is interested, I mean, Paul, we'll continue grab you and start rolling you in. You can give us updates along the way and I'd be interested in participating. Yeah.
Maybe in the city, maybe heading up the city portion of it. I can head up the HPC being on the HPC and then we can Councilman Bodner, would you like to join me on the city one? I'm volunteering. You be happy to. Shane
Shane it with uh council member Baldwin. Is that good? Yeah, absolutely. And then we can we can we can pick up the county and then or or the the the the country and then the I I'm thinking in my head, let's go look at some microfich and see what we got going. I like that. That's cool.
Fun. Okay, get your Uncle Sam outfit ready. It's amazing what the county library has up there. Yeah, that's great. They they had a lot of information about the uh the book brigade, you know, so you know that there's a lot that we can look into that
celebrates Kate May's history. That's a great idea. Uh Councilman Bodner, nothing tonight, Mayor. Thank you. Uh Deputy Mayor McDade. Nothing at this time. Thank you, Councilman Meyer. Lots of great stuff. Cool. All right. Um just to echo what
the city manager said, you know, it it's just very unsafe in the water right now, so please stay out of it. Uh, with that, we'll open it up to public comment. Anyone wishing to speak on any and all issues, please come to the microphone, state your name and address for the record. Good evening, council.
Um, Peter Cole, 1075 Michigan Avenue, president of the TPA. If I may, I'd just like to announce that the TPA taxpayers association is having their annual meeting on this Thursday. 1 p.m. here in City Hall. Uh we have guest
speakers Zack Mullik. We have Curtis Bashaw, Martin Van Wson, and I'd love to see you guys there and all our members, too. Although the hall couldn't take all our members. We have about 700, so I don't expect to see them
there. Anyway, thank you very much. Thank you, Peter. And thank you to the TPA. I'm happy to happy to be there. Um, and if there's anyone else uh as anyone else comes up, you know, our uh our deputy city manager handed me this
earlier and I almost forgot, but um you know, the city is uh lucky enough to get a lot of different awards and uh this one ranked Cape May number one beach in New Jersey from Trip Advisor, which Trip Adviser could typically be one of the uh
more difficult um review sites. So to get it from them is obviously a very nice compliment and I know that's kind of user generated. So that's that's pretty cool. So congratulations to everybody and uh especially all of our lifeguards and people that are on the beach who do such a nice job for us. So
thank Mr. Mr. Rous. Sorry about that. How can I Thank you very much. Please name and address for the record. My my comments frankly are relevant to the uh workforce housing project. Thank you. um or zoning changes,
ordinance change to uh 570. I'm I'm very happy that you are passing that on to the to the planning board. I I have some frankly some very strong feelings about the house the the workforce housing. I I think it's a great idea. No, thanks.
uh that we provide workforce housing and it should be designed for that purpose and I've indicated in in what I've I've handed out what I feel is is is the purpose of workforce housing and
not be conflicted with the potential for leaving those properties along the mall in particular for some other form of rental. Uh I think they're they're distinctively different and they should not be handled
as you've proposed in the ordinance that they are the same. I I'm uh missing your point there. I I apologize. Could could you could you repeat it? Workforce housing as as I understand it
is to be used for full-time city employees or people employed in the city. Okay. Can we answer that one before you go to the next? Sure. Because I because I want to hear that it is defined in the ordinance. Is that correct? Workforce housing in the draft ordinance
is defined and it's not necessarily tied to work. That's one option, but really what it's tied to is duration. So, we this is to encourage long-term housing,
which is most likely going to incorporate people that live and work in town or maybe live in town and work elsewhere, but live in town. What we're trying to avoid here is short-term rentals continuing to pop up in that
area. There's already some there. This ordinance is not going to change that. Those will continue on as pre-existing non-conforming uses. But if someone were to alter the building, you know, propose a new development or something like that, what we're trying to do is avoid
those Airbnbs and transient rentals from popping up, recognizing that those probably create more of a burden on parking in that area than would maybe somebody that's living there long term and maybe biking around town or not needing to move their car all the time
and that type of thing. Um, and also recognizing from a policy standpoint, we want to have a town where people live here and it's not just some place where people come for a few days and disappear and those are important, too. And it's a tourist community, but we we want to
make sure that there's a balance for that. So, that's what this is geared towards, but we're not going to be checking people's payubs under this ordinance. What we want to do is it's going to prevent people from pulling a merkante license for short-term rental
um if they have workforce housing uh designated for that for a unit there. And the flip side to that and the benefit of that is we're not going to charge you for parking. you know, in terms of a zoning standpoint, you're not you're not going to have to seek a variance because you don't have parking,
which everybody would if they want to develop something like that along the Washington Street Mall. Where are you going to create a parking space on the Washington Street Mall right now? It's just not going to happen. So, well, there is an alternative and that alternative would be that they pay in lie of a parking space.
Um, sure. And that's another that's another that's another totally different issue. This is the trade though under the under the I think I think we we we some we somewhat agree it's a matter of where how we get there. I believe there should be a merkantale license that is
designated as workforce housing and for that they get the waiver of not required to have provide pro parking and I you agree with that. Well, we we there's a a licensing component of this, like they'd
still need to get a fire inspection and they'd still need to register as a landlord, just like all our other long-term landlords in town. What they wouldn't be able to do is walk into the clerk's office and say, "I want to get a merkantail license for a short-term rental." It's like, "Hold on a second. You've worked for
I don't think they should be allowed to have that." I agree. And and that's already provided for in this. It specifically says you're not allowed to do that. and and they can they can be violated if they say they're going to do that and they vi and they start renting it.
But as as an owner of a property, I can do a long-term lease and totally disregard workforce housing. Well, there's the potential for workforce housing is a long-term lease. Yeah. But there's also the potential or
long-term lease and not have to require parking. Correct. And and that's the policy initiative on the table is this is promoting long-term housing opportunities whether they're working in
the building, working in town, working outside the building. The goal, ultimate goal, we use workforce housing, but workforce housing is defined to include anybody that's really living there for a long term. I think that's fine. I I I don't disagree with that at all. I think frankly if we're going to give somebody
a waiver of the ordinance and not require parking, they ought to work in the city. I don't want them working in Wildwood or, you know, lower township somewhere. So, what's your suggestion on that exactly, Mr. Roush? Pardon me.
What is your suggestion specifically to that? that it that workforce housing is a designation given to a property owner and for that workforce housing the individual has to work in the city and
as a result of that he gets the waiver of requiring parking and and I don't disagree with you so that's why I'm asking more are you how do we monitor that how do we how do we enforce it we understand that a merkantale license would be specific
as to workforce housing, a mer a workforce housing mercantile license, it would be it they would have to they would have to apply to the zoning uh official for an approval because it's a waiver of an issue that
would normally be required. So, we would be almost similar. We might be we'd have to have the copy of the lease to show who the person was and a payub. No, I not not suggesting that you need to know who it is, but the
owner is specifying that I am going to dedicate my rental property, right, for workforce housing. And that's what the ordinance says, but what what I think we we were hearing you say is that they have to work in the city. and and I'm just trying to figure
out how as a you know from the city's perspective how do we validate that just their addestation to that that no the owner of the property has to has has to monitor that I I would I understand completely what you're saying the reason that it's
crafted this way and not that way is because it recognizes the reality that we can have plenty of people that are living in this community a part of this community that don't necessarily necessarily work in the community, but they still contribute by living here.
They shop at Yakme. They shop at the local stores. They use the parks. They have families. That's really what this is targeted at. And so the policy lens is much wider under the current draft than would be in that. And I
understand what you're getting at, but also it provides a more practical means of enforcing this because what we're doing is we're saying, "Look, you can do anything beyond a short-term rental. Just don't do a short-term rental. You're not pulling a market license.
You're not putting on Airbnb. We want people with long-term housing opportunities to live up there and therefore you get a waiver of the parking requirements." That's what I'm getting at is I don't want to see a long-term rental
to someone that doesn't have to have a parking. You're you're Are you pointing to like the threemonth vacation? No. Somebody that just says, "I'll I'll rent this place for 5 years and works before that I get an exemption of my my part."
But it could be someone who is an educator, a teacher, someone who works as a nurse. and and that doesn't necessarily I think that those are important individuals to have in the community because you know they're they're here providing a very valuable
service and resource. So I think if we go too far to the extreme initially Mr. Roush I I don't disagree with you but I think that this is a step in us trying to establish some boundaries around offers of
workforce housing. It could evolve over time, but this will be a new concept to everyone in the city. Um, and I think that if we make it too restrictive, you know, people will not perhaps, you know, want to adopt it if we make we set up
too many rules in the beginning. That's just my feeling. I' I'd like to see us make some I would like to see more workforce housing and for that you you you get a waiver of your parking and just to be able to take to take a
second or third floor on on the mall and rent it out. I don't think you should be entitled to a waiver. Can I can I suggest something? Do you mind? Uh deputy mayor, would you be willing to meet with Mr. Roush in regards to this topic? Yeah. with the solicit. I'd be happy to. Yeah.
Because I here's the I why I think it's important to what you're saying is this is new to the city and it's basically a start there. We we could look at this as a bigger program throughout the town at
some point. I mean, we all understand the necessity for workforce housing in the city of Kate May. in front. Yeah. The other the other suggestion I'm making as part of this my comments are that we define how much space an
occupant has to have or that the prop the property owner must provide for an individual occupant. It's not a said to to to eliminate uh you know 10 mattresses in a room that um but they would still do fire inspections
and everything like I'm sorry there's a fire in there's a fire inspection but that what I think Mr. Ral is talking about is, you know, there are state standard codes that you can adopt that that require for certain amount of living space, bedroom
space per occupant that's that would stay in the apartment. And I think, you know, there are standards and and and different towns have adopted different standards. So, I think that's what Mr. Rous is talking about is creating those standards. We don't currently have those standards and
it becomes it's a you know it they're hard to implement because then you got to try to go in and figure out what do you what are you going to do with the potential non-conforming exactly housing stock that you have. So could I get and you can give us a
report back with the caveat that of course this is going to the planning board first. Okay. So they may have some of their own caveats. Yeah. and uh and and then we'll we'll review that, but I' I'd appreciate if you would meet with Mr. Rash on that if Certainly. Certainly. And and and you
know, some of these things might come up for discussion at the planning board. So, um you know, we could maybe try and meet beforehand. Um so, I can certainly opine on that with them. But, thank you. Y I appreciate the conversation that we're having. Uh I I frankly feel it's a a
very very important subject for the city to recognize workforce housing. We need to get the people in town to live here to work. Yeah. It's I mean I think we all understand that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Rush. Anyone else on any
and all topics this evening? Seeing none, do I have a motion to adjurnn? I'll make that motion. Mayor, thank you, Mr. Meyer. Have a wonderful evening, everybody. Time is 59.