All right. Good afternoon everybody. We're going to get started. We are here for a regular meeting of the city council of the city of Cape May. Today is Tuesday, August 5th, 2025. The time is now 5 1 p.m. Please join me for the
pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> Thank you. Under the open public meetings law, notice that this meeting was sent to the Kate County Herald and the press of Atlantic City and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council, posted on the city website and city hall bulletin board. Notice hereby provided that city council meetings are
audio recorded and or video streamed live. Live video streams are posted to the Kate May city website. City of Kate May is not responsible if audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable. Roll call. Council member Baldwin >> here. >> Council member Bodner >> here.
>> Deputy Mayor McDade >> here. Council member Meyer is absent. >> Mayor Mullik >> here. >> City Gillan Schwarz >> here. >> City Manager Dietrich >> here. >> Deputy Manager Riggs >> here. >> Deputy Clerk Turner >> here. >> CFO Haney >> here.
>> Any additions or deletions tonight? Council, >> do we have any council? No. Okay. >> On to employee of the month, city manager. You want to take it away? >> Thank you. How you doing? First, Rich, come on up here so that you get to
So, our employee of the month employee of the month this month is uh Rich Heim. He's uh one of our supervisors in the public works uh department and uh he's been with us since uh 2017. Started as a labor and has kind of worked up his ranks and just shown his dedication and
that's why he's gotten to a a supervisor level now. And he kind of he's in the buildings and grounds and you will see him zigzagging throughout the city. He always has his notebook in hand to take notes of what needs to be done, what,
you know, and that's kind of, you know, his his thing and his and his jingles with his keys. So, um, he is really just a great employee and just always wanting to make the city a little bit better. And that's really what um thing
uh and that's really what his co-workers, you know, between the jingles and the notebook. That's what his little nickname is with his uh fellow employees. And when he's off duty, he just loves to spend time with his wife, Kelly. Um that's what he does in his spare time is does that. So I
just he's just a great employee here. So I just want to say congratulations to Rich. [Music] Congrats. >> Paul did ask me if we should give you a key to the city. I said you already have all of them. So, um but uh while we have
a lot of uh our department of public works here, I just want to thank all of you. Um the city really looks beautiful and it's been packed. You know, we have we have a lot of people. So, uh it takes a tremendous effort and I just saw a lot of you all working out in front of the the convention hall this morning and it
really looks beautiful ready for our uh big event today. Uh I I don't want to give away the clerk's announcement later, but uh really appreciate all of your hard work. So, thank you very much. Thank you, >> Eric. Thank you very much. Great job.
Great job. [Applause] Okay, on to updates and old business. Uh, city manager, do you have any updates or old business? >> Um, the main I'll just wait two seconds while pokers
Obviously, we're in the heart of uh the the summer season, but um we are looking forward to starting up projects come this fall and um you know, we do have I will be meeting this week with both the uh contractor for the prominade uh
restoration work. So, we'll be looking at that work will start up right after Labor Day, as well as our uh New Jersey Infrastructure Bank project, the sewer and water replacement project. Um that'll start probably on Illinois Avenue and work outwards. uh that
contractor's already and with our city inspector Delasio Associates, they've been out in the neighborhoods of of that affected project handing out flyers to residents as well as mailing them to just make sure that they're aware of this upcoming project that will be starting in September, too. So, I just
want to, you know, especially let the public know that, you know, that's a legit city inspector coming out for a project that's going to be working in your neighborhood. So, it's important that if if they have questions to reach out to them or myself um because they will be doing work in front of your
house come starting September. >> Can I can I add something to that as well? Um I'm not sure as they're handing out flyers whether or not because we have that moratorum on the street openings if you want to be provided gas is that included in that >> that is that is also mentioned in the
letter that there is a moratorum uh for that and also before we do these projects we notify the utility companies of our pending work so that they if they have some planned work that they get in here uh before we do our work also. >> Thank you. >> Yep. Uh and then next I just would like
to follow up. I know the Jacob Jones committee had their uh little public session last week um fairly well attended and um they just wanted to pass along to to me and pass along to city council, you know, that based on the public comment both that we had here at
our council meeting and theirs, you know, that they'll be reooking at what location, the size and the scope of what they're looking at uh as that Jacob Jones Memorial Project moves forward. So, you know, they've kind of heard what the public has said as far as that
location and that size of a U monument is just out of scope and scale for that location. So, um they're going to be going back to the drawing board and looking for another avenue to uh commemorate the Jacob Jones Memorial. So, I just wanted to pass that along and
look forward to seeing everybody out there at National Night Out tonight. Thanks. >> Okay, great. City solicitor. >> Nothing tonight. Thank you. City Council, any updates or old business? >> No. Okay. On to ordinances for introduction.
>> Yes. We have 574-2025, an ordinance amending zoning code to confirm the intent and purpose of pool setback requirements for introduction. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make that motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any questions or comments, council? >> I
Okay, solicitor. >> We're going to continue our comments. Mayor, if I may, uh, one thing that, so this this is to clarify the it's not really changing any of the bulk requ. >> Sorry about that. It's not, this ordinance is not really changing any of the operative bulk requirements. The
setbacks and coverages are all the same. What this is is updating the intent of those bulk setback requirements so that if a variance application ends up coming before the board, it's not just fire safety access. It's still light air and open space. And there's other planning
considerations for why we have setbacks for pools. In reviewing this, uh, Councilwoman Bowwin brought up a good point, which is that our fire safety review does occur routinely
when pool applications are presented to the planning or zoning board. So, that'll get routed to the fire department. They'll get a letter from the fire department saying, "Hey, we don't have any life safety concerns." Or maybe they do have concerns. they'll provide comment. Council may see some value in having that review occur even
if there's not a variance application because this is a unique town where we may have a building that's closer on an adjoining property than you know the setbacks required because of existing non-conforming conditions. So there may be good reason just to have fire review in every case. And I actually spoke to
the fire chief before this meeting. He indicated uh you know he's prepared to do that. It's not a heavy lift. Um, and it it's going to give the fire department probably a good look at each of these properties when something is changing there. So, I could propose an
amendment to this so that we can include that as part of this uh amendment and it would read something like this. We'd keep the new language be the same. We just add a number six at the bottom and it would say all applications for the installation or construction of
accessory swimming pools whether or not any variance relief is required shall be subject to review by the fire department chief or his design prior to the issuance of a zoning permit. The purpose of this review is to ensure that the proposed lo pool location access and
surrounding conditions do not interfere with fire department operations, access routes or fire safety requirements. So, if council would like to entertain that, you could you could make a motion to amend the ordinance on first reading to include that and then we could adopt on
first reading and then this amended ordinance would then get sent to the planning board for review. >> So, I would make that motion. I concur with uh Councilwoman Baldwin's um recommendation. So, um I would make the recommendation that to make to include that language.
>> Everyone understand that what the solicitor said? >> I agree with that also. I think it's a good sound policy, sound idea. >> So, we have a motion. Do we have a second? >> A second. >> So, that's a motion to um amend the ordinance >> 574.
We have a motion and a second. Roll call. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik. >> Yes. >> Do I have a motion on the amended ordinance? >> I'll make the >> I'll make a motion.
>> Do I have a second? I'll second. >> Any questions or comments on the amended ordinance? >> I just have one um question. Um Mr. Gillan, this um the R4 does not permit swimming pools at all. >> Right. And this does not override that. >> Okay. I just want to make sure there's
clarification from from the public's perspective. >> In locations where pools are permitted, these regulations will govern. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions or comments? >> Roll call. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. Council member Bodner. Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes.
>> Mayor Malik. >> Yes. >> We have 575-20. >> Uh we don't have public comment on the original ordinance. You can we we have multiple public comments. So you'll be happy. >> Yes. And
>> I'm sorry. >> Yes. And and then we would have a second reading where there is public comment specifically on that ordinance. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> 575-2025, an ordinance amending chapter 310 of the code of City of Kate May concerning licensing and permits to update fees and
costs associated with special events and use of public property. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any questions or comments? >> Roll call. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin.
>> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik. Yes. >> And moving on to ordinance for second reading and consideration for adoption, we have 573-2025, an ordinance authorizing a lease agreement between the Mid-Atlantic Center for the Arts, Inc. or MAC for a
portion of the welcome center. And there is a public hearing tonight. >> These are the ordinances for second reading this evening. And we do have a public hearing on ordinance 573. Is anyone here wishing to speak on ordinance 573? Seeing none, we can close public
comment. Do I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any questions or comments, council? >> Roll call. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik.
>> Yes. >> Mac. Thank you. >> Uh please go ahead. just want just want to thank the um city council administration public works thus far has been phenomenal working with our staff and we appreciate your confidence.
Thank you. >> That's great. Thank you. Thank you very much, Jody. And and thank you to all of Mack and all the staff and volunteers. We um we've heard really great feedback and I did ask for the electric bill this this month and it was not too bad. So,
thank you. Okay, with that we can move on to uh public portion on resolutions this evening. Is anyone here wishing to speak on resolutions this afternoon? >> Hi Stacy. >> May we start? I was going to wait till them all.
>> Sure. >> Um my first question has to do with resolution. >> I'm sorry Stacy. I'm sorry. Thank you. Stacy Shan, 928 Columbia Avenue. >> U has to do with resolution 251. Um can get some clarification on what
this actually is. Um because it doesn't seem like it's an RF RFP, so I wasn't sure. You're advertising that you're going to go out for a contract. >> The first part. >> So um this is a unique process actually
provided under the law. So you normally we'd be proceeding through procurement for through the local public contracts law. The local public contracts law actually has an exception for water supply contracts and it's has its own specific process which this is the
beginning of and the resolution sought to outline how it was going to go. But yes, it's you send out a request for qualifications for potential qualified contractors and the statute specifically authorizes the city to then engage with negotiations on one of those qualified
contractors contractors to see if you can come up with a a contract that would meet the city's needs. And then ultimately um there's three agencies involved. we send out a notice of intent to to do that process to the NJD to the
DCA and to the BPO. Um so there's three agencies involved and then they're in the beginning and then also at the end they get a chance to review after the city conducts a public hearing on the contract. So we we're that's not tonight. We're trying to solicit
contractors to provide a proposal for tank maintenance services and then ultimately that would be subject to a public hearing. The contract would be in front of all of council, the public, ask any questions about costs, services, the whole nine yards. >> Now, is this are they looking to do a
40-year contract with this or just it's up to a 40-year contract? >> It's up to I mean, we're looking for a 20 year >> 20 years for tank maintenance. >> Yes. >> Okay. Cuz I guess my concern when I saw this that since we haven't really moved forward on the diesel that this was going to be gone to maybe New Jersey water for our water system and that's
why I was questioning that. >> Okay. My next uh thing has to do with resolution uh 243 which is the resolution of the city of Kate May approving the corrective actions for the audit that
was done for 2024. Uh my first question is are any of these audit findings a repeat from last year? Yes. um the item where it mentions the uh implementation of a general ledger that has been a repeat audit item for um a couple of years now.
>> Okay. So, we've had a couple years of audit findings where the general le ledger has not been accurately maintained. Many entries were incomplete and incorrect. Is that correct? >> Mhm. So after a couple years of this, what is the city going to do for a
corrective action since informing the CFO that this should be done and it's not being done? What corrective actions are we doing? >> So um I met with the city manager and the CFO um over the course of uh two meetings. We have put together a
comprehensive uh corrective action along with um the findings the corrective action plan responsible party and a date of when this needs to be rectified. I will be meeting with them uh the first week of every month uh through the end
of the year um and having the discussions to get status and updates >> right because this is like the third second or third year this has been done. So, I'm thinking letting them know that this should be done is not really a great corrective action. >> So, that I would say um I couldn't
necessarily disagree, which was why I sat down with the CFO and the city manager um and we've put together a comprehensive plan. It has been shared with uh Mr. Costello. Uh and he um appreciates the effort is underway. So, I think we're we're moving forward in in
a very good place. I'm very confident in the what the what has been put together. um Stacy as well as what the process will be going forward. >> Okay. Because there's a lot of things found in this audit. Another being that bank accounts were not reconciled timely. >> Some accounts were not reconciled in
2024, leaving expenses and receipts unrecorded. Um you know, >> your comments are um well taken. One of the reasons why I um met and sat down and we went through this process. Um, so
we intend to um not have these repeat. Um, and so that that is the the goal and the purpose and I can give you my assurance that >> you know we will be on top of this. >> Well, that's what I was hoping it was going to happen yet last year and it didn't. There's also >> Oh, wait a second. That there every
audit has recommendations. There's never an audit that says gold star, everything's perfect. That that happens every year. Oh, every year we have it where our ledgers are not correctly um >> maintained and we don't think that's a problem. >> That's not what I just said and you know
that. >> Well, okay. We have two years that that the ledgers were not time accurately and timely maintained. They were missing entries and wrong entries. We also had d payments were approved without sufficient funds in the capital
improvement fund. The general capital improvement fund was overspent and down payments for capital projects were approved without adequate funding. The deferred charge mitigates immediate harm but increases budget future budget
obligations. >> Michigan, I think we could all read from what the budget the audit findings. >> Well, I think a lot of people didn't see these attachments. So that's why I'm making sure that people understand what's happening with our budget and our audit. >> Let me give you the assurance that going
forward these issues will have been identified, a corrective action plan. There's an executive summary that was shared with council and the mayor. We've put a responsible party next to it and a date and time when these will be completed and I will be personally
involved in the process. >> Okay. My next question has to do with uh resolution 245 a riskmanagement consultant. I just need some clarification on what the risk manage consultant is going to do for the
services for Kate May. >> Well, I I can speak a little bit to it. Um risk management generally takes a look at everything from if you have contracts or you have a process or your operations, your HR policies. Um, so you know this it's a pretty broad spectrum
of services that a riskmanagement company could offer. Um, we currently have a a firm that we do business with. It's always good to evaluate whether or not there are uh different opportunities or different scope of services that could be offered. And this is really
what this is. It's not saying that we're making any changes. It's really to say let's go out see what's out there. Um, you know it's Go ahead. So, we already have a risk consultant. We're just going to go for proposal for another one. Yeah. Is that it what we're saying?
>> Okay. >> And that's just to basically make sure we're getting the best services at the best cost >> from what we what we already have. >> Okay. Thank you for your answers. >> Thank you. Anyone else on resolutions
today? Seeing none, we'll close public comment on resolutions. Council, is there anything you'd like to remove from the consent agenda this evening? >> Anything we'd like to remove, council? >> No. >> No. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Do we have a motion to accept the consent agenda? >> Do I have a motion on the consent agenda? >> I'll make the >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Thank you. Roll call. >> Deputy Mayor McDate. >> Yes. Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes.
>> Mayor Mullik. >> Yes. M >> I guess moving on to new business. >> New business. City solicitor. Any new business? Nothing tonight. Thank you. City manager. >> Nothing this evening. Thank you.
>> Okay. City clerk. >> Just a reminder, obviously everyone knows tonight is National Night Out. The uh police department is very busy on Beach A in front of a convention hall. It starts at 5:30. So we really encourage everybody to attend and participate. >> And that's it. Council,
>> thank you very much. Uh, Councilwoman Baldwin, >> just a quick question. Mr. Mayor, are you going to be in the dunk tank? >> We asked him to put some >> I don't know if he has much to say. >> I forgot to bring a change of clothes tonight, so I can't really do the duct
tank. I don't have a change of clothes. >> We can make it happen. Um, no, just on a serious note though, um, I attended a concert this weekend up at Convention Hall and the concerts this year have been fabulous. Uh, convention hall staff have been doing a really
great job up there. Um, but Mac Minelli has been here, the Bacon Brothers have been here. Um, Marshall Tucker Band will be here next on Saturday and then Domain on the 23rd. Um, >> just a really good, you know, nice lineup this year. Um, very well attended.
>> Um, so that's all, mayor. Thank you. >> Great work on that. Um, Councilman Bonder, >> nothing tonight. Thank you, >> Deputy Mayor. >> Uh, I just want to mention the community center. I checked in with Dave, who is the um, you know, sort of the lead person from the recck department. Um, he
said they're seeing some nice activity coming in for uh, people playing cards during the week, which is great. They have we play starting in September. Um the exercise program has you know it has ballooned um you know there if they're up on the prominade they've got 30 40
people um and I think they had over 30 um this past Friday when they couldn't do it. So it really has taken off. So um I personally very much appreciate all of the the the work that has gone into it and the support of this council and getting that uh up and running and I I
look forward to the fall. I really think it's going to be uh have even more activities and and more utilization. So, thank you. >> That's great. Um, just just a quick one. I think uh I working with um Councilman Bodner and and the bicycle and pedestrian uh safety committee. Uh I
want to thank uh Mr. Cassidy for joining on uh this this uh in this meeting. Um I think they'll he I think he'll I see him out on his bicycle every day, so I think he'll be a valuable asset uh to that committee. Um, also we did just get in a
bunch of stickers uh from from the on behalf of the bicycle committee and and u Mr. Bodner um with a um what do they call those codes? Those QR Thank you. QR codes that we're going to work with all of the bike rental agencies to put uh
right on the frame of the bicycle. So it'll just be a QR code that goes right to the um bicycle safety u um homepage of the city website. So, um, and it already has a lot of valuable information on that. It has, you know, safe routes that that, you know, are
alternatives to other locations, but as we uh advance the um mapping services and things like that, working with Google and Apple um to make specific bike routes, um, I we think that'll be really a nice uh upgrade to the website
as as we move that forward. Um, so stay safe out there. uh you know, especially as we're coming to the end of the season. Again, want to thank our lifeguards. Uh we've had no major events. Um but I did see a few uh issues come up recently and and all of them on
the Jersey Shore were after hours or before hours of the lifeguards swimming um on an unprotected beach. Um so I just say that as a reminder to everybody as we get closer to the end of the season, swim near a lifeguard. Um, thank you and we'll move on to the public portion to
this this afternoon. Um, anyone wishing to speak, please come to the microphone, state your name and address for the record. >> Thank you very much. >> Oh, thank you. >> Hello. >> Hi, everybody. I'm going to just do this a little. We can see you better. >> These do move, so you're welcome to move them up and down. Just make sure you speak into it. Okay,
>> there we go. Okay. Hi, my name is Sally Snyder and I live at one Wilmington Avenue and I am here to present to you a petition that has over 435 signatures that states, "We, the
undersigned, respectfully oppose the construction and the placement of the Jacob Jones Memorial Monument on the dunes of Parity Beach." Now on the back, that's what it says on the front of all these. And then on the
back, it tells the opposition and our requests. And as I will say that of these 435, I've probably personally seen 400 of these signed and they are from people as they are going on and off of
Poverty Beach to give you an idea over the last 10 days. Now, it's not only the residents that have signed it, but it's also all the vacationers who come and prefer Poverty Beach and understand the beauty of it. And let's see what I want
to say. Okay. The people that I've talked to in the last 10 days, some of them are there for the first time. I met a family this morning of five people. Their family has been coming to Poverty Beach over 100 years.
Many have watched poverty beach be transformed as I have from broken shells to a beautiful, tranquil, natural beach with dunes and wildlife. Due to all of you in your years of effort, due to the
core of engineering and all of the restorations, due to the many, many, many, probably miles of snow fences that has gone in, Hurricane Sandy, which deposited a tremendous amount of sand there, birds
and the wind. I'm also here to present you with letters. In the letter, I only want to point out one sentence on the letter. I urge the council to reject any proposal that involves placing a permanent structure in the dunes of
Poverty Beach, no matter well how well intended or funded. I am here to present you with the petitions and with the letters um to represent the residents as well as
all of those vacationers. I would like to submit these letters and petitions for legal record. Poverty Beach, it's our last sentence on here. Poverty Beach belongs to the people and to nature. Let's preserve it for future
generations. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Kirk. [Applause] Uh, good afternoon, mayor and council members. My name is Gail Wily Morrison. I'm the owner of a commercial property at 501 Lafayette Street. I'm here this
afternoon to address the proposed location for the Jacob Jones monument. On July 30th, I participated in the Zoom meeting dur during which John um Becker represented that the Jacob Jones Memorial Foundation stated they're no
longer pursuing the original design and location that was presented to council on July 15th and identified as site number three. While a new design has yet to be finalized, the foundation did indicate that Poverty Beach remains the intended location, though now outside of
the dunes, and that no clear timeline has been established for moving forward. Thank you to the city manager for notifying city council today that site number three has been withdrawn. On behalf of myself and other concerned community members, I want to express
strong opposition to any placement of the monument at Poverty Beach. As the owner of the commercial property at 501 Lafayette Street, which was honored with the Historic Preservation Commission's renovation award in 2005, I've always had deep respect for Kate May's history,
preservation, and thoughtful design. Growing up year round at 1015 Stockton Avenue, I have a strong visual memory of the power of mother nature and the Atlantic Ocean. The photos in this book I brought with me reflect the many
storms that my mom put together from 1962 to 1994 that my family personally witnessed from our front porch evidence of the vulnerability of the shoreline. On a side note, my father was a aerial photographer stationed in Germany during
World War II. So he was always taking photos. Placing a permanent memorial on or near the beach or in coordinating coordination with a pending seaw wall project raises serious concerns from an environmental standpoint. This area has
a long history of devastation from hurricanes, northeasters, and flooding. A monument meant to honor should be placed in a protected enduring setting, not one exposed to such known threats. Additionally, Poverty Beach is an active
recreational area, not a quiet reverence space. It brings safety concerns, including limited lifeguard coverage, inadequate parking, and street that lacks sidewalks. For these reasons, I respectfully urge city council to withdraw the poverty beach area from
consideration. Thank you for your time and your service to the city. And if anybody wants to see these photos later, I'd be happy to show them to you. >> Thank you, Gail. Um, just before everybody speaks, and we're not going to cut anybody off, but I just want to be really clear about a
couple things. One, this is not a city council proposal. Okay? This this was did not come from city council. This is coming from a group um of citizens just like many of yourselves who is proposing this to the city. I I just want to be very clear about that. Um and also our
understanding as a city council is hopefully what everyone understands here is that um that they have gone back to the drawing board is is so I just want everyone to know I know nothing more and I know no one up here knows anything more than you probably do. So, I just I
want to be really clear about that and also just to be clear that the reason we've been asking for these to happen at city council is so that everybody hears it just like just as we are and and you are. So, I I just want to make sure that's very clear to everybody. We don't
know where this stands just as much as you don't. Um and the next time that the their ideas come, we're asking again to do it in public, do it on live stream. And so I just want to be clear about that. But having said that, please go ahead. I apologize for interrupting.
>> I think your introduction was perfect to what I'm going to say. Okay. Um Jeffrey Morris, 1621 Beach Avenue. And I actually spoke to one of the committee members yesterday. And a lot of the questions that we have and concerns, uh,
they heard. Uh, but the feedback I got was that'll be up to the mayor. So whether you whether you'd like to say I'm a I'm a passive and I'm a passive guy in this until things come up. They're deferring to you on a number of things. And let me just go into some of
the suggestions and things I did tell to them. >> You know, I mean some the mayor always gets put on the hot spot. So I'm not >> I hear you. >> It's not a criticism. I'm just telling you what the committee said to me or at least one of the members and they were willing to bring some of my ideas to
that. But since they deferred to you, I want to give you some of what I told them. >> Sure. >> Because and I'm sure they'll be discussing it. So, thank you for that. So the Jacob Jones Memorial Project and the two presentations that I've attended start with the purpose of the project
and then and then they go to the select criteria the selection criteria and they clearly state it as their musthaves uh that the that the beach and the ocean must be visible that it must be in the city of Cape May and it must be capable
of harmonizing art and nature. It does seem and the reason I think they went back to the drawing board is what they really presented was shock and awe, disruptive nature and the change of the beach experience for those going there. As you know, people do come to Cape May
to enjoy many things. And one of the co's objections posted on the website was quote, "The cove the cove should remain a living unobstructed open space with no additional clutter or structure, allowing for visitors to create their own memories that serve as their
personal memorials. Since uh since one of the members kind of directed me to here, I would ask that the town council consider their own selection criteria and what your musthaves are on behalf of the
community, the residents, the homeowners, the visitors, the businesses since you are the guardians of our historic buildings and the guardians of our beautiful beaches. For example, how about the memorial cannot disturb or
diminish a natural area? How about it must not disrupt the beach experience that includes the view, the mood, and the natural environment? If it is near a beach, it must be proportionate size and design as to not force quote an
immersive war experience, that's John Boer's words, on unsuspecting beachgoers. And for example, no higher than waist high or bench high. It if it's going to be near the beach, it should be put on the prominade or an
already paved area or street side of the prominade and with embedded plaques in the surface of the walking prominade to provide additional educational experience but lower the impact on a resort area. It should ideally be placed near other monuments to enhance the
context, whether that is the Lost Sailors Memorial, the World War II canal, or the World War II Tower. And as many of you know, there is a World War II tower in the city of Cape May. It sticks through the roof of the Grand Hotel. And certainly
putting it close to that would add links and contexts. At the public Zoom, there were questions uh that was in a chat box. So it really was hard to have a discussion with them. Um uh
but when asked you know why they were creating the monument they were uh John Boer said we want visitors to experience the horror of war and the terror these sailors felt really is that what we want on our Cape May beaches. I understand it's an artist's interpretation. He's a
he's a great architect. He's putting his heart and soul into this. But that's the kind of thing that should be in a war museum and not when people are coming to the beach. These sailors fought to protect us from the horror of war coming.
They can be honored that with a solemn monument as most war monuments do and not bring the war to the beach, which is what they were trying to prevent. And let's talk about some other resort examples. Normandy, the most famous
beach of World War II, if you've been there. They have a few kiosks, they have a museums in the back, but the scenery is serene. The natural beach that the people can enjoy. The unspoiled beach is the tribute to those who lost in battle.
Hilton Head has a Battle of Port Royal Memorial. It is a stone monument with a tilted surface about chest high that explains the battle of a model that explains the battle and has a model of an intact ship. It directs you from
there to walk away from the monument to out and look out to the sea. It's really maybe a couple hundred yards. So, it's not where the beach is, but it directs you at the monument to walk, you know, 100 150 yards, go out to the sea
and look and see where the battle was. >> Excuse me, mayor. >> I did that. I was surprised. You know, I came upon it. I lingered. I read. I looked. I honored. I reflected. It wasn't a 32 foot or a 26- ft reflective metal attention getter. And who knows
what will be next? the Outer Banks. They had 70 ships that were sunk off the coast of World War World War II in the Battle of the Atlantic. Museum off the beach and they give you a map of the shore with dots to show where the ship
sank. Serene natural beaches. You can walk with the map and look at what was there and think about the ships that sank. My father was a World War II veteran in the Army Corps of Engineers. They were the first over the Rine in Germany in advance of the infant in
infantry. He and his company cleared mines, built and destroyed roads and bridges, often behind enemy lines. And when the inf infantry came, the army corps fought side by side with them. And afterwards, the company would stay behind, my father included, to put dead
soldiers in body bags. Should his monument be an artistic pile of bodies honoring the dead? They fought to protect us from the horror of war, not experience it at a beach. Poverty Beach. Uh I know the mayor
talked about a lot of projects that uh sometimes people are not happy with, but but in the end it brings joy or public safety and those are certainly important things. Poverty at Poverty Beach, excuse me, a seaw wall is coming. Some people
don't like that, but we know that's public safety. a prominade is coming. Some people don't like that, but we know in the mayor's words, it'll bring more joy to some people when they, you know, to the masses when they come and have a more a longer place to walk on the beach
and feel the wind and all that kind of stuff. We heard from a community member, a licensed architect, that putting a structure in an own storm surge area can challenge public safety. I'm almost
done. I'm asking council, you know, to not take away the joy of the beach, to not challenge public safety because almost all your other projects that e that even you mentioned, whether it was the whether it was the playground or the natural area, I mean,
those are things that brought joy or brought public safety. So, I'm hoping that you will have your musthaves and your um experiences that you want to go into this monument because, you know, I've
been told, well, the mayor's going to decide that. So, think about it. That's all I'm asking. And think about what I've said. I've told this to the committee. I'm hoping some of it will be brought to them. And I hope some of it resonates with you because we are a resort area. You know, we do have
residents, but a lot of people come to visit as it's already been said. Thank you for the time. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Anyone else, >> sir? >> Yes. >> I'm Lee Snider. Uh, I'm a resident of
one Wilmington Avenue, Cape May. I'm a registered architectural engineer in New Jersey, plus five other states. I um last July 15th I talked about the environment. Today I'd like to talk
about the safety concerns. The start of the handicap ramp is only 100 ft from the southeast corner of the intersection of Beach and Wilmington Avenue. The first 100 ft is actually striped, so no parking can occur. And
this is because navigating the curve a lot of times as I sit there looking at that corner, vehicles just encroach on that area. To have a wall
uh where the handicap ramp is uh just is a concern. uh vehicles that uh travel down Beach Avenue at a high speed, higher speed than what's posted.
Uh many vehicles uh like I said, don't navigate that curve as uh everybody would like. The bottom of the ramp is 6'6 in elevation, which is 6 in above the street level. The only thing that
protects the uh west edge of the ramp from the roadway is a 6 inch high curb. I'm I'm concerned about when somebody's traveling north on Wilmington Avenue. If uh when they make that turn, if they
jump the curb or somebody in a wheelchair is coming down and they lose control, they'll they'll be in uh the road, which is a concern. The existing overall width of Wilmington Avenue is 45 foot10 in the proposed
handicap ramp extends 10 ft into this area. Thus, it reduces the overall roadway uh width to 35 ft 10 in. It should also be noted that this road
does not have separate designated bike lanes. Uh, and a side note, the ramp's going to eliminate at least three parking spaces, which is already a challenge. The remaining distance from the west
edge of the ramp to the center line of Wilmington Avenue is only 14T 3 and 1/2 in. I'm sorry to be so exact, but that's my engineering background. >> Mr. Snder, can I can I just comment on that? I um we're talking about something that
isn't happening. Uh so I'm just >> Okay. >> It's an idea that was presented and I I'm I understand your concern, believe me. And to that detail would be what we would be getting into if we were going to approve it. But we have and and and
frankly, we've heard the concern. So I'm I'm not trying to cut you I accept and I'll just move forward here because I have >> I'm sorry. I was going to say this priority. >> Yes. I'm Stephanie Snider of One Wilmington Avenue.
>> I wanted to say prior to my talk that you might have heard and we heard on the Zoom call that this proposal is being reworked. However, on your city website, the current proposal that we saw in the
last meeting is still the one listed. And until a new location, a new site, and a new memorial that might be a little smaller, that might be a few feet further off the beach, this is still a concern. Thank you.
>> Yeah, that's my daughter. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm going to just my real concern whether it's located where it was shown July 15th is it's
it's constructed of aluminum. It was 41 foot tall plus a flag pole. It's going to it it's going to increase the likelihood of some of that structure being struck by lightning because
aluminum is a good conductive electricity. In fact, it's the predominant material used in the electrical industry when dealing with high amperage and voltages. Therefore, if struck by lightning, the monument will readily conduct a current generated
by the lightning, potentially causing significant damage to the structure itself, visitors, and nearby uh areas. The existing walkway to the beach, uh well, I'll skip that, too. So,
the coastal environments experience higher incidents of thunderstorms, greatly increasing the chances for a lightning strike. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, Mr. Snder. >> Hello. Thank you.
Hi, my name is Elizabeth Chus. My sisters and I own the properties at 1716, 1717, 1724, and 1725 New York Avenue. Um, I'm also here about the uh Jacob Jones Memorial. Um, and repeating again that
uh on the Zoom call uh we were told by John Becker, he gave us the eight names of the people that are on the foundation and he said that uh Mayor Zach Mullik and Lorraine, Councilwoman Lorraine were actually on the foundation. So, I think
that is the reason why we would like to present our um objections to a memorial being placed at Poverty Beach. Again, we understand has been said that uh they've told us
that the site number three loca location and design has been nixed. They're moving on. They're they're doing a new transformation of that, but they are still planning. They said to put it at Poverty Beach. They're talking about moving it up and integrating it into the existing seaw wall. And they're not
going to tell us though what the size is. They said it's going to be more personalsized. They don't know the materials. They said they will get back to us and then do another presentation. So we are just kind of coming out on a preemptive you know like looking at that
and saying okay are there any issues that might come up having any memorial at this particular place. You've heard a couple of other um people talk about that. Um I have a couple reasons that and things that I would like you guys to
consider if I don't happen to be around when they uh give their presentation. It happens to be on Poverty Beach. Um, this weekend I was on Poverty Beach with my family and I had a chance to talk to a long longtime local lifeguard to find out his perspective of having a memorial
of any size in the area of Poverty Beach and if it would have any impact on his job. He said the Poverty Beach is already too crowded and that anything um that would bring more people to the area or the beach would make it more difficult for him to keep people safe.
He pointed out an area up at the beach. I couldn't really see where he was pointing. I was standing at the lifeguard stand. The beach was packed. Um and he says he puts out cones every morning to clear a path for the lifeguard rescue truck to get through to his stand. He said um that there now is
so little beach at the corner of William and Beach, especially at high tide, that people disregard the cones and sit or play in the pathway. He told me that if he had a body that needs to be transported to a medical facility and a rescue truck could not get through to
his stand, people will die. I went out and the first picture that I gave you is a picture of the beach, which is the the supposed to be the pathway of where the rescue truck would go. and um there
is hardly any room and people are paying botchi ball and everything like that. So I I see his point. Um and that prompted me to do a little bit more research and I know you guys are all familiar with the um report from the Army Corps of
Engineers. I just wanted to read a section that uh pertains to this particular issue. Um and it says that the report itself the primary problem driving this study is over topping of the seaw wall in the vicinity of beach
Avenue and Willington William Wilmington Avenue in Kate May city. This studied section of Kate May seaw wall is the weak link in the city's CSRM system with storm water first cresting at this location for both high frequency and low
frequency events. And then they go on to say, "In an effort to determine why the area in the vicinity of Beach Wilmington avenues was the weak spot for flooding along the ocean front, the PDT examined recent survey profiles of the federal
beach project in conjunction with the seaw wall elevation survey date that was collected for this study. The PDT also discussed the built beach and Wilmington Avenue area with the USACE project manager for the federal beach project.
The project manager indicated that the area is considered an erosion hot zone where it is difficult to maintain sand which is placed during periodic beach replenishment cycles. Even when an additional lobe of sand has been added
as a buffer at the beach and Wilmington Avenue's area, the tidal and wave forces of the ocean quickly bring the area into a linear equilibrium with the beaches to the east and the west. The PTT has concluded that the underlying condition which makes the area so vulnerable is
the distance between the seaw wall to the ocean. The last two blocks of Beach Avenue angle out toward the ocean, which decreases the distance between the seaw wall and the ocean by approximately 300 ft compared to the rest of the ocean
front in Cape May during a storm surge event when the ocean service is elevated. Mr. Mayor, the corner's first and most susceptible point for wave attack. Frequent encroachment by the ocean is also the reason that a dune has not accreted and become vegetated in front
of the seaw wall as it has along the rest of the ocean front. So bring creating a monument of any size or any amount to bring more people to an area
that is one of the most delicate, fragile areas in all of the Kate May beach seems like a dereliction of, you know, protecting what we already have there. And the um issue also now with the fact that the federal government is
saying that they are not going to be funding the replenishment of the beach makes that area an even more delicate and more sone to erosion. So I am hoping that we can find another place. I think that all of us that have been learning
about this over the last three weeks are really interested and excited about it. I've learned more about the Jacob Jones Memorial, about the about all the the uh boats that have gone down, about the um building of the canal in order to uh
have the boats our boats go not out into the ocean and get hit by the Eboats. And I was hoping with the help of the council that there might be another location that has a view of some body of water if it's not the ocean, the harbor where it actually could create some kind
of an educational museumlike place so that children can go even on a on a rainy day and learn about these things because we all think it's really worthwhile and we just like to find the absolute best place that everybody could access it and um enjoy it. Thanks.
[Applause] Hello. Uh Raj Johnson, 826 Lafayette Street. Um I'm not a resident um of the area that near Poverty Beach, but um I have heard what these uh residents are
saying and it uh and respectfully so. Um, I feel as though they would feel a lot better if they knew what is the process of a project like this. In other words,
when do when does council get involved and when are there voices through the council heard by the people who are proposing this? So, you know, could you give us an
idea like what is what what comes first? What comes next? What comes next? And then when is there a yes and a no? And how is that how how does that come about? Um well there's no um definite process I
I would say but um frankly we've we were approached from this group to to do a monument and to and to uh recognize the sacrifices of those 130 souls um 31
I believe. Um and so we said come to a council meeting and present it. um we put their information on our website because we wanted everyone to see it. Um and and um obviously have had multiple meetings since then. So that I mean
that's the that's the way we've done it so far. >> And then what is the next step? I mean how long the the the one gentleman I thought eloquently said you know they have given you their must and it seems
very strongly they say it must be in Kate May. Um I per I anyway um when do you give your mus when do you say >> the process at this point not you know
just having sat through the presentations that's been my involvement at this point um not we've heard loud and clear that there have been concerns about every location about size dimension impact uh sustainability
So there hasn't been what they what they haven't come to us with a final presentation. One of the things that we wanted from the very beginning was that them to engage with the community that this was to be a transparent process. I haven't seen a presentation at this point in time a model a design a
location that meets the standards for that they've gone through and and had these discussions. So from my perspective when they come with something that has been accepted by the community to to the largest extent it can be there will always be people who will not be
satisfied um with a location. And what do you define as the community? Because apparently there is a a group of people um that have the money to do this and they are a part of the community. >> Understood. And then there is another
part of the community that maybe doesn't have as much money. And I mean, so like which part of the community do you listen to? Well, it's through this representation here. People come to these meetings and voice their concern. I don't ask them how much money they
have when they when they step forward to the podium. Quite frankly, it doesn't make a difference to me one way or the other. If you have a concern, you come forward. You you raise your concern. you present an eloquent or you know a cogent argument for it and we listen. When it comes to a vote, it comes to a vote
because they're coming forward and we feel confident that they have ex designed something that not only that the community is accepting of but also does meet our needs. So there are locations that they may define or they
may decide upon Roz quite frankly that I may not agree with. So but I haven't heard any of that yet. We haven't gotten to that point. They are still evolving this process. They are hearing loud and clear that the design scale and scope and location to date have not been
accepted and that has been recognized. I have not seen something that I would say that looks like it'll fit, that looks like it's an acceptable location and that I as a member of council, as a voting member feel is appropriate.
Everything that we've had so far is them coming, presenting options, and then telling them, "Please go out and make sure you're getting community feedback." Right now, what I understand is they are going back at to square one. Now,
whether or not Square One includes a new location, I don't know that. I read the articles like you do and I hear the presentations that, you know, or the comments that are made here, but that's all I know at this point. It it just seems to me like they should be
uh given some type of guidance like you know everybody's saying well the the challenge involved we're not involved who is involved >> well the challenge with the guidance is they're they're coming up with a proposal that they think you know is
serving the memory of these sailors. Um, and our job is to decide whether or not that monument, that location is conducive to the to the city of Kate May. That's my job. I for me to go out
and say to that group, um, okay, I want you to do this X or Y or Z, I don't as an elected official, I don't really feel that that's my role. What if I was a private resident and raised the concerns that you do, then I I would have I would do that. But that you know
>> so their new um their new proposal >> Mhm. >> what are they basing their new proposal on >> the feedback that they've heard through the three meetings is my understanding >> and that's a question for them to answer. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I Yeah. I mean again
you know I don't know what gets said or told to I'm not participating in the process. I'm waiting for them to come here and present to us something that they're asking us and that they've done their due diligence. >> So they'll they'll come a final point
where they will say this is what we've come up with. We're going no farther with this. Is it accepted or is it not? >> I don't I have no idea whether or not that that's what they'll do. I'm not >> we we can't answer for them. >> Yeah. Those are the questions you should
be asking them. But when do you I think I when do you make the decision? >> We don't dictate what people want to say to us. We that's not our job. I mean they they can be designing a McDonald's up there if they want. I mean that that's not our position.
>> I understand. But when when do you say yes? >> When when they officially request us to uh accept or deny their proposal >> and does that come in form of what? in a public meeting just like this. I'm sure everyone will be there and we hope
everyone's there. I mean, look, we don't want to push this on people that no one wants. I mean, believe me, we we care about everybody's feelings here 100%. And that's we have said that to the group, believe me. I mean, the a lot of the concerns that have been brought up
are exactly our concerns. you know, we we would like to give them the opportunity to come up with a a lovely World War II memorial. Okay? I mean, I think it's a extremely important event in the history of Kate May. Um, but we
have all said those same concerns that have been mentioned here today. We've said them to the group as well. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. [Applause]
Hi. Uh, my name is Leslie Fog. I live at 108 Trenton Avenue. Um, two things come to mind for me. Um, then of course I forgot the first one. Um, the there I am late to the party, so to speak. I was not part of any of the earlier discussions and all that. was not here,
but I've read up a lot recently and it, as we all know, various locations have already been um turned down and um and now we're stuck on on Poverty Beach at the moment. Um, a friend of mine who is
actually perhaps in this room u mentioned to me the other day um an idea of possibly putting it out at K Point State Park where there is a very large um history from World War II. When I was a kid, the Quanet huts were still there.
Um we've got the bunker out there. We have lots of parking out there. Now granted, I'm saying we it's not Kate May City. Uh and I understand these uh gentlemen would like to keep the thing in Kate May City. I would advocate that um it's not the right place especially
with so much opposition to it. Um and the gentleman consider another location. Obviously they would have to talk to the state. Um so that would be my suggestion after having reflected on because I initially told this person absolutely not in Kate May Point because I'm a Kate
May Point girl. Um I didn't want it. Um the second thing though that I wanted to mention um I think it might have been two years ago now. Um the arches and that we we had a whole slew of them put in and then there was a proposal obviously to put more in and there was
private money funding it and at the time I said just because you can do something doesn't mean you should and I feel kind of the same way about this particular project. I personally have a problem with private money coming in and almost dictating to a city of Kate May for
example. >> What's happening? >> Um well they have they're saying absolutely in Kate May cannot be anywhere else. >> We haven't said yes to that and >> well I know you haven't said that. I'm just stating my opinion right now. >> That's fine. But I just want to be clear. No one up here is being dictated
to because somebody has money. This is a >> I didn't say that. No no no no. You're taking my words out of context. I'm I'm trying not to, but let me let me say my opinion. This is for a World War II memorial. This is not for a condo that some rich
people are trying to push on us. I just want to be we I mean, we're not being influenced by like some underground money or something. I mean, I' I've heard a couple times from some folks about outside money or influence. I mean, this
is a World War II memorial. I mean, I'd like to see it as a plaque or something simple. Okay. But >> absolutely. >> So, >> um, excuse me for talking over you because I will sit down to let someone else speak. Someone mentioned, um, I think, um, in France, I've been to see
the the beaches, Juno, etc. Um, there are one or two big monuments, but everything is pristine. um and low monuments where you can read something in Wildwood um turtle gut there's a small
thing available for people to read. I don't I don't understand the need for something this huge. I do support the idea of of honoring these men and honoring our heritage, but again it seems pretty obvious to me that that
location is not going to work. And it's time then for those people who are involved to rethink the location. Rethink as they apparently are the size. Um I I don't really think that most people who object to that location
object to honoring the people involved. I don't think that's the issue at all. I think it's it's ultimately comes down to the location and the size. So thank you for listening. I appreciate your time. I'm Alice Morris, 1621 Beach A, unit
205. Um, I'd like to express number one my I guess my concern and frustration with not just the current status of
ignorance that we all have. um but with our process and we're asking for some help with that. Um mayor, you indicated that you are at this point and I assume you're speaking for council as ignorant as the rest of us.
Being in a state of ignorance about a matter of great importance causes great discomfort. The difference between your ignorance and mine is that you will make the
deciding decisions. You may base it, as you say, on having some wishes yourself, but this is really the first time I've heard them clearly expressed for the nature of the um monument.
I've heard you say that you have not yet said yes, but it does appear that at other points in the process you have said no. >> That's that's not correct. >> Well, I I'm basing that on what appears to have been at least a yearslong
journey of that. >> I'm just committing from sight to sight. >> I'm answering what you said. That's not correct. We >> Okay. we any locations that they rejected was on them. >> All right. Well, then maybe it's time for us to propose that there should be
either some mechanism for saying no or some better mechanism for ensuring that the community will be involved in in offering our opinion. We're all aware that you have many more
people present and able to attend to express themselves over the summer months. Frankly, it causes again uncertainty and anxiety that a meeting will be held in December at a time that most of us are not aware of or not
available to attend and it will it can be made to appear as if there's no opposition to a plan. that is a very uncomfortable position for us to be in. So we that is part of why you're being asked for more clarity about a process
so that we can feel more confident. Um, I'd like to just ask for your focus on this piece of what has been presented to us um in reference to this
proposed monument or memorial. Uh John Boer, the architect, stated, and it's been referred to before, that the purpose of the monument was
to have the observer experience the horror of war and the terror of the sailors on that sinking ship.
If this is their purpose, then I would have great concern about the nature of what is as yet an unknown new proposal for a monument.
I don't believe it is appropriate emotionally for a passerby on the beach to be emotionally assaulted
by such an image and such feelings. And I have to believe that part of what your role is on the council is to protect the well-being of the community.
So I need to ask you to pay attention to such motivations as however well intended they are by that committee. Um, I would I would view
a monument where an unsuspecting beachgoer or passer by in the city is it could be assaulted by such emotions as contrary to the well-being of the community. We
may not always be here to respond to every proposal and you are the people who will make the decision. I would really ask you pay attention, whatever shape or size it is, to what emotions and intent
is expressed. That changes what it should look like and where it should go. And I know we're not just talking about our beach location. And I thank you. >> Thank you.
[Applause] Hunter Cochran, 1429 New Jersey Avenue. In in light of the clarity of the opposition to this site at Poverty Beach, I am wondering if it might be possible for the council to help the
residents of East Cape May to maybe form a participation in this process for the Jones Memorial. maybe you all could facilitate our greater participation in their committee and try to eliminate this nimi
problem which is what we're clearly having. I mean I I have many other neighbors who have are here today to speak on the record because this is really our only opportunity to get on the record about how we feel about this. Now I have previously already gone on
the record. What do you think about that idea of >> Have you reached out to the committee and asked them if you could? >> Well, I I have had one-on-one meetings with Mr. Martell directly. So, >> okay. But have you asked to be some representation on the committee? >> I I have not specifically asked for that
yet. I'm I'm wondering if you all think that might be a good way to help to get past where we are at the moment. >> Okay. So, I have to reel this in a little bit. I I appreciate people's concerns. We and and believe me, if this was on our desk as proposal, we would be
talking about those very same concerns. I just want to be clear with everybody. We we agree. I I hope I'm saying we, but I think there would be many people at this table that would have very similar concerns, but we're not that committee. We aren't and we we don't control them.
But >> any idea also I just want to address this because it was also just said any idea that we're going to have some secret meeting in December when people aren't here is 100% false. That's you know this is why we're having these meetings right now asking them to be
held on online platforms so that the most people can participate. Believe me, we're we want this to be as transparent as possible. So I just want to make sure that's really clear. >> Well point of clarification in the online meetings you can't participate as a They're not our meetings, but we >> No, no, no, no, no. I I'm talking about
city the this meeting we're in right now, city council, if I was somewhere else and logged into Zoom, I can't participate in the meeting, can I? >> No. >> Exactly. That was the point she was trying to make is that Wait, wait, wait a minute. Am I No one's saying it's trying to be done that way. However, if
I was trying to get something done, I would be presenting it in the off season, not in the summer season if I didn't want participation. That's the only point she was trying to make. And >> I think we're right here in the middle of the season. So that's that's the point I'm making. >> I think the inference though is that we
would we would try and slip something through. And I can assure you there is no intention of doing that and we are listening to you. But if you wanted to be a participant in in trying to influence their decision, their design, their location, my I would be saying I'd
like to sit in on these discussions early on. and you should feel free to do that. Um, you know, having a discussion with them and saying, "Please encourage participation." They may feel like they've done that. I don't know. All I'm saying is if you really feel strongly,
and it was me, I would be forcing my way into those discussions if you feel that your representation for your area is would be best served. And perhaps they'll be open to that, especially if they want this to be successful, which I'm sure that they
want it to be successful. So, you know, you would think that they would be welcoming participation from the people who live in the area to make sure that they get a design and a location that is conducive and accepting.
I understand we your point is to approach them directly and and and you're outside of the process, but mayor, no different than a first reading. I wanted to have some input about this ordinance. When do I get an opportunity to have input about
an ordinance other than second reading? >> Please say it now. >> Do you really want me to bring up that subject now when we're still talking about >> whenever you'd like to talk to me after? >> No, my point. point is I the point I'm trying to make to you is there isn't an opportunity as somebody from the public
to be in involved in the process. An example I was trying to use for you is a new ordinance. I can't give you my opinion. >> Give it to us right now. >> Would you let me finish my point please? >> My point is the process is such you do
it at the second reading not at the first reading. the the the opportune time to have input is before it becomes an ordinance in a first reading second reading. >> That's all. That's just the point I'm making. >> The mayor's mayor is saying right now is
this point in our agenda is when we address anything that's not not that you want to speak about pre previous there's two two public portions of the meeting. One is on agenda items and now okay now you can speak about anything
you I think the point is that he would have liked to have influence over the design and the the actual ordinance and the language of the ordinance >> prior to it being entered as the first reading. That's correct. Okay, >> that is correct. >> Okay, let's go to the process of an
agenda. We published this agenda on Friday in its entirety. We not not I don't think there's another municipality in the county that publishes every single ordinance, bill, all of it listed online
by Friday. All we we publish the entire thing on Friday before a Tuesday meeting because we want you to see take a look. Um this ordinance that you're referring to about the pools, this is first reading. So we have
multiple public comments throughout the meeting. you have it on the resolutions or at the end of the meeting then we have it on uh the second reading which is weeks later after it's been published and advertised multiple times now um to for public comment if you have something
that you'd like to see changed in between too you don't have to wait you can call the mayor or any of the council members I mean so and and frankly right now and I'm I'm saying that as an invitation to you if you have an issue with it please let us know I'm >> frankly the The Jones Memorial Project
is way more important than the pools. So, I'm not going to talk about the pool issue today. I just was talking about the method and what one of my prior speakers was concerned about is getting involved in the process as opposed to oh no, it's
about to happen now. What do we do? >> So, there are many ways in which ordinances are, you know, evolve. This one in particular came out of the planning board. >> Yeah. But but >> let's not let please let's not talk about the pool or I I will address that
separately either at the second reading or at the next meeting. Please what's important today is the Jones memorial for me and I have many other local residents who have come today to to the meeting and I've asked them to come to
go on the record about their opposition to it. It seems clear that it's crystal clear how much opposition there is. I know for a fact that they changed the plans and are back to square one because of all the opposition that has been presented to date. So that's progress in
the process. >> That's all. And I I'm I'm happy. I just wanted to see if you thought there was a method involving the council to have better participation in this particular project. You you gave me the answer and it's and and I understand the answer and that's
how we'll address it. We'll go directly to them. Thank you very much. [Applause] [Music] Thank you. I'm losing my losing my paperwork. Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor. My name is
Joseph Carroll and I live at 1720 Merlin Avenue. I've lived there for 45 years. When I was purchasing the house, I was told nothing could be built on Poverty Beach because it was too environmentally sensitive. There's 14 houses there
today. I can't understand. There's a email that I was sent to come here and protest the monument because it was wildlife habitat
natural dune destabilation and environmentally integrity. All those ingredients are on Poverty Beach. Behind my home, the school track was such an environmental football for
40 years. We fought that. We finally accomplished the state came up with $19 million and bought that track. My opinion is the whole area, my house included, never should have been built on Poverty Beach. It's too
environmentally insensitive. I don't understand the Trxus family wants to build now three more houses up on the beach. I didn't hear any of that today. Is that the reason why they don't want the monument?
There's 400 signatures on that petition you just received. Everyone's saying, "Don't build it. Don't build it. Don't build it." I think council and the mayor have to make a decision. Do they want to take a
chance again? We don't have a seaw wall in the 17 or 1800 block to protect us. In a storm, we get clobbered. I was there for a hurricane, two hurricanes. I wouldn't want to be there for the third one. And now these hurricanes are coming. Can you pass that
around? That's a photograph I took after Hurricane Gloria. You couldn't get down the street. The street was like a river. behind the house was like a river. And what did they do? They built more houses.
So I think Mr. Mayor, you got to draw a line in the sand and say we're not going to do any more of this because that's where the storm's going to come. The core of army engineers wants to build a 17t seaw wall along Wilmington Avenue. You won't be able to
see this monument if they build that seaw wall. There's no talk of building a seaw wall from Wilmington to the jetty at the Coast Guard base. That's what we need. Now, there's talk in Washington they're not going to refund the uh
>> the monies that they're using to renourish the beaches. When I first moved into my house, you couldn't walk from Wilmington Avenue to Philadelphia Avenue. There was no beach. Now you have a beautiful beach, >> but if we don't get that renourishment every year, we won't have a beach again.
As fast as they pump that sand, sometimes it's washed away in a couple storms. >> So most of my neighbors, they don't want it. They all have signs all over the neighborhood. Don't build anything on Poverty Beach. I think we've seen enough
damage to this city, we don't need to see any more of it. the flood insurance is to the point you won't be able to get flood insurance in this city if you continue to do what they're doing. >> My comments. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Good afternoon. Elizabeth Hyde, 107 New Jersey Avenue. Um the comments I wanted to make today was from the perspective of new regulation and I know mayor that you've you've been following along with members of your administration uh the real rules and what impact that would
have on Cape May. So when I first learned of the monument um being proposed for Poverty Beach, I thought well that's kind of crazy if we really think that sea level rise is going to impact us. And the current regulation at that time when I first heard about it
was 5T and then subsequently the the rules were um changed from 5T to 4 feet. But still if that's the case, if we're going to see continuous sea level rise and if there is a continuous impact and less funding coming from Washington to
support our our beach replenishment efforts, just putting anything on the beach, I think is is unwise. um that entire area is going to be underwater if it's true by 2100 when certainly I will be long gone. Um and I just think we
shouldn't waste a lot of time on a proposal that's not going to make for a successful monument. Um the intent is beautiful. I'm a my father was a commander in the Navy. So you know you have that kind of attachment. So so anyway that's all I wanted to share
today. So thanks very much. >> Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Okay, thank you. Um, to sum this up, I we hear you 100%. I I don't think anybody on council is going to turn to
me after the everyone leaves and says we're definitely going to build that. I I don't I don't see that happening. Um, and let me just say this while we have this group of passionate people about Kate May. Um, you know, sir, you
mentioned the soul track. I mean, we have this proposal from the group that's before us. You're here, but I want to talk about what this city council has been working on. You you said it was a 40-year litigation, as many of you probably know in the soul track and and I know a lot of you were involved in
working on that for decades in part of that. Uh, the solicitor, myself, and several council members, we met with the governor. I mean, we worked really hard to make sure that that on multiple occasions, you know, and he wrote he signed off on that $19 million check
from the uh D. Um, and now that's preserved. And I say that because that's the type of things that this council has been working on. The seaw wall uh $25 million from FEMA that is going to protect that neighborhood. And sir, you
said 17 feet, which is true at a certain point, but that's not 17 feet off the ground. I just want to make sure everybody understands that that's 17 ft above sea level and and we we've shown renderings and you can see that on the website today if you're interested.
Frankly, I think it looks very nice. Um and and uh worked with the Army Corps taking them from what was a wall uh and and their original renderings of the Army Corps. And I just want you to know this because this is what this council
has been working on. The original renderings of that corner was a basically concrete wall and it went up um approximately I don't quote me on this but I think eight to nine feet off of the street. That was the wall to the
seaw wall that they had designed. Um we took that and said look and and but I don't want to give us too much credit that there was a lot of work with the historic preservation uh office, the state historic preservation office and many other volunteers. But what we did
was we basically pushed everything further back. We created that prominade and created basically a seating wall that was uh added essentially three feet to the height but was about 30 feet back off of the street. It that that 30t
varies throughout the the actual prominade area. But I think if you saw the difference between those two things, you would be very impressed about what the work that was done. And I'm only saying all this because you're here and this is things that I know you're very
concerned about, but just please know that those are the things that we've been working on as a council. This other stuff has been being presented to us. Uh that but that's a $25 million uh funding from FEMA, hoping that FEMA exists within the next two years before they so
they can cut that check. Um but as soon as they do, those are the important projects that we're working on. $19 million of course of course for the soul track. Those were really important projects for this part of town that that we we've been working on. I just say that to you and and please know that
this will not be a decision made when no one's here. Um we will not accept that. We hear you very loud and clear and and and I encourage you please to reach out to the committee. Reach out to them. I I I my understanding of them and the
defense of them a little bit is they they said they're rewriting the whole thing. So, it sounds like they're listening and and I hope that you continue to voice your opinions and um help them get to a better product because I think I think that they can come to a good product and and something
simple and I understand again all the comments. That's all I have to say. Um um is there any other public comments before we close um from the public? >> Just one quick note, we did remove the um the project location presentations
from the website. So they all that information is off the website. >> Anyone else this afternoon? Okay, we'll close public comment. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> Thank you. Hopefully, if you have any uh youngsters, you can come out tonight at
what time? >> National 5:30. >> 5:30 in front of convention hall. Thank you all. Everyone have a wonderful evening. [Applause] >> Is this yours?