WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=tga3HeYADMw

Part: 1

1
00:09:48.160 --> 00:10:05.720
Good afternoon everyone. We're calling to order the uh regular council meeting of the city of Cape May being held here in Cape May City Hall auditorium. It is Monday, June 1st. The time is 3:35. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance.

2
00:10:05.839 --> 00:10:26.959
I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Just a brief um Mayor Mollik uh sends

3
00:10:26.959 --> 00:10:43.040
his apologies. He won't be able to attend in person, but will be via phone. Perfect. Thank you. Under the open public meetings law, notice of this meeting was sent to the Kate May County Herald and the press of Atlantic City, and the copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council, posted on the city website and city hall

4
00:10:43.040 --> 00:10:59.040
bulletin board. Notice is hereby provided that Kate May city council meetings are audio recorded and video streamed live. Live video streams are posted to the Kate May city website. City of Kate May is not responsible if audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable. Roll call.

5
00:10:59.040 --> 00:11:14.480
Council member Baldwin >> here. Council member Bodner >> here. >> Deputy Mayor McDeade >> here. >> Council member Meyer >> here. >> Mayor Mullock >> here. >> City solicitor Gillan Schwarz >> here. >> City Manager Dietrich >> here. >> Deputy Manager Riggs >> here.

6
00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:29.600
>> Deputy Clerk Turner >> here. >> Any additions or deletions tonight? Council Council, any additions or deletions? >> Okay. >> Okay. On to the first item of business, the Kate May County Land of the Free Celebration 250th Grant Award from

7
00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:50.720
Commissioner Patrick Rosinello. >> Good afternoon. >> There we go. >> Good afternoon. How are you? >> Is that better? There we go. Uh my name is Patrick Rosinello. I am the newest Kate May County Commissioner. Uh but I have been around uh local government for

8
00:11:50.720 --> 00:12:06.079
a long time over in North Wildwood. As we're presenting this tonight or this afternoon, I was thinking, if I'm not mistaken, when I was driving around the county, I think Kate May was the first town I saw with the America 250 banners. I think like on January 2nd, they were

9
00:12:06.079 --> 00:12:21.200
they were installed and up and driving around town, it looks it looks amazing. Kate May, I'm not going to digress too far here, but Kate May is, as you all know, is an incredible town. Um, it's a beautiful town. as having been in municipal government so long as I go around like I look at the small things

10
00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:37.519
like the flowers on the mall and how clean the city is and the signage all matching and things like that and that is really a testament to everybody in this room. I know how hard it is to get those little things right and Kate May gets the little things and the big things right just about all the time. And I'm sure it doesn't feel that way

11
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:54.560
all the time from your perspective, but I can tell you from a visitor and a a fellow municipal um elected official, uh I have a little bit of envy with regards to Kate May because it's it's such a special place and you guys do such a really great job. That's one of the reasons why the county commissioners

12
00:12:54.560 --> 00:13:11.120
felt this year for America's 250 that we wanted to be directly involved with the municipal governments in the celebration. It's just such an important celebration. And if my research was correct, Kate May uh was here 250 years ago, unlike most of the other towns in

13
00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:25.920
the county that that were not here. I think uh I was at Congress Hall the other day and Curtis Bashaw mentioned that Congress Hall has been there for 210 of America's 250 years. So being in such a historic place for this historic occasion is is really something special.

14
00:13:25.920 --> 00:13:42.399
So, on behalf of the Kate May County Board of Commissioners, it is my um honor to present to the city of Kate May a check in the amount of $25,000 to help the city of Kate May uh enhance and promote your America 250 programming for

15
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:58.959
this year. So, I'd like to present this to somebody, deputy mayor, I guess, or the rest of the commissioners, whoever wants to come up. We're just going to grab a quick picture and um I hope everybody has a great season here in Kate May. Yes, thank you very much. We very much appreciate your support and we are

16
00:13:58.959 --> 00:15:28.800
looking forward to having a great 250th celebration. One, two, three, Thank you very much. Oh, I was put >> That's pretty sharp. >> Okay. Well, thank you to the county for that contribution um and to assist us

17
00:15:28.800 --> 00:15:44.959
with our celebrations. >> Yes. >> All right. Moving on to updates and old business. Any from the city manager tonight, this afternoon? >> Thank you. Yes. Um, I'm happy to announce um our own uh deputy city

18
00:15:44.959 --> 00:16:03.040
manager Justin Ridg was selected to serve on the New Jersey Municipal Management Association executive board. So, he was uh inducted last week into that. So, congratulations in that. He's a little busy. >> Um I I most of our construction projects

19
00:16:03.040 --> 00:16:18.160
are starting to kind of wind down. Uh they're just doing a little punch list work and maintenance work on the side uh on the prominade project. Uh I think I have they're still working on they're trying to clean up on Winona and Swan on

20
00:16:18.160 --> 00:16:33.279
the water sewer project. So they should be done that project uh by the end of next week and then they're just going to pave pave it the following week. So by the 18th they should be done work on

21
00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:50.480
that project. Um, Harborview Park. Um, I going to make an official announcement here this tonight, uh, July 2nd, Thursday, July 2nd at 11:00 a.m. Looks like we're going to have a ribbon cutting. Looks like the m all the materials got in and the contractor is

22
00:16:50.480 --> 00:17:05.039
going to be real full steam ahead. If you've been out there, they've got the gazebo almost about 100% complete. And then, you know, this week they're going to really, you're going to see a lot of fast a lot of a action over the la next two weeks. And um we should be able to

23
00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:21.679
have a ribbon cutting on 11:00 on July 2nd. >> It looks fabulous. >> And that's all I have this evening. >> Can I just ask one question for the manager? Um the prominade uh with the um sealing of it.

24
00:17:21.679 --> 00:17:36.799
>> You're talking about the surface coat sealing on the top. Um >> what's the status of that? >> So we're they've the the seal coating is backordered. Mhm. >> Uh we're he's anticipating the last I heard it was June 15th the material will

25
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:54.080
come in. Uh we will I've already had discussions with him about when that comes in. You know, we may be doing some off-hour painting. So there's going to be some closures in time. So the anticipation is still to have that surface coat sealed before um I'll say

26
00:17:54.080 --> 00:18:10.320
the July 4th weekend. That's that's the intent to have that done before then. And you know there just may be I'm going to try to push him to more of the evening or overnight hours and try to make sure that you know during the morning hours because that's usually I think when we see a lot of activity

27
00:18:10.320 --> 00:18:26.400
people getting out there to run and walk and exercise in the morning time to kind of keep that available and open as much as we can. >> Mr. Dr. Dietrich, you mentioned um that it um when you and I spoke that um they could probably do a run through and then

28
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:41.840
go back and start the second coat. Pretty much should dries very quickly. >> Yes. >> So, okay. Excellent. >> It it should move fairly quickly. >> Okay, great. Thank you, city council. Um Councilwoman Baldwin, >> no. >> Nothing.

29
00:18:41.840 --> 00:18:57.200
>> Mr. Bod, >> nothing. >> Nothing. Okay. Uh nothing at this time. Thank you. >> Okay. Moving on to ordinances for second reading and consideration for adoption. We have 602-2026, an ordinance amending chapter 7 of the city code regarding metered parking in

30
00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:14.240
the city of Kate May with a public hearing tonight. Council, anyone from the public wishing to speak on ordinance 602? Seeing none, we will close public comment. >> Do we have a motion to adopt? >> I make a motion.

31
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:31.200
>> I'll second. Any discussion, council? No. >> Council member Meyer? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade, >> yes. >> Council member Bodner, >> yes. >> Council member Baldwin, >> yes. >> Mayor Mullik, >> yes.

32
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:47.120
We have 603-2026 bond ordinance providing for various flood mitigation improvements by and in the city of Kate May County of Kate May state of New Jersey appropriating $35 million therefore and authorizing the issuance of $35 million bonds or notes

33
00:19:47.120 --> 00:20:03.440
of the city to finance the costs thereof with a public hearing council. Anyone from the public wishing to speak on ordinance 603? Seeing none, we will close public comment. Is there a motion to adopt council? I'll make the motion.

34
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:18.799
>> I'll second. >> Discussion. >> Council member Meyer. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik. >> Yes.

35
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:36.200
and 604-2026, an ordinance amending section 482 of the city of Kate May Code to prohibit conduct likely to result in long-term decline or death of trees with a public hearing. Deputy mayor, >> anyone from the public wishing to speak on ordinance 604,

36
00:20:38.080 --> 00:20:53.360
please state your name and address for the record. >> Hi, Martin Van Walsson, 329 Congress Street. I want to start off by apologizing. Uh it seems as if every time I come up it's to nitpick an ordinance u with the mission of making it better. Um but that is my objective.

37
00:20:53.360 --> 00:21:10.559
Uh so Chris, please don't take it personally. I think you do a great job. >> None taken. >> I wanted to share some personal experience that we've had with this subject matter. Um a few years ago we were advised by our arborists that we needed to have some trees pruned heavily

38
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:25.600
in order to restore their health. And uh we hired a company to do that. Uh we returned home and we were shocked to find that more than 75% of the canopy had been taken off by the company. So that would clearly be a violation of

39
00:21:25.600 --> 00:21:42.640
this ordinance. Um there was a mulberry, a willow, and a maple. Um the outcome of that is uh the willow is completely healthy and doing extremely well. Too well for from my perspective because I have to constantly cut the so I can walk

40
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:59.280
through it. Um the malberry took two years but has returned to health. So it saved the tree. Um the maple we don't know because six months later a contractor cut half the roots away during a construction project and killed the tree. So we had to take it down and

41
00:21:59.280 --> 00:22:16.080
we replaced it with another tree. Um, now if we had had that done and if there were a neighbor or a passerby that objected to the trimming that the extent of the trimming that we had done, we would be in front of the municipal court judge appealing the summones that we

42
00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:32.000
would have been issued. I'm not an expert at trees. My wife is more learned than I am, but um, the neighbor or passerby is probably not an expert at trees. The code enforcement officer is not an expert at trees and the municipal judge is not an expert at trees. So,

43
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:48.080
who's going to decide this? Well, then I'd have to hire an arborist. The city would have to hire an arborist. And those arborists would agree or disagree in in the court proceeding to determine whether what we did was prudent or not. And the reality was we wouldn't know for two years whether it was the right thing

44
00:22:48.080 --> 00:23:04.960
to do or not. So what winds up happening is becomes neighbor versus neighbor and the city is stuck in the middle. Um I think that the objective as I listened to the shade tree commission meeting of having giving code enforcement the teeth to be able to

45
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:21.760
go after somebody that has been turned down for a tree removal is absolutely point on. I think that that is just uh behavior that should not be tolerated. However, um in doing so, we wind up catching in the net a great many people

46
00:23:21.760 --> 00:23:37.679
that are trying to do the right thing. And now we're faced with a situation where there's a conflict. There's also a practice that um I have seen but didn't know what the name was until I asked today u called parding. I

47
00:23:37.679 --> 00:23:53.440
don't know if any of you are familiar with parding. It is where you cut a tree back to its very core very aggressively every year to three years until a knuckle forms and then the growth comes from that knuckle. And the

48
00:23:53.440 --> 00:24:10.080
reason that you do this is to be able to keep a large tree in um in in a space that in your yard that is not encumbering on on anything or is not hanging onto a sidewalk or isn't going into electrical lines. It's a accepted

49
00:24:10.080 --> 00:24:28.159
arboral practice and this ordinance would prohibit that. We literally have three trees within a tenth of a mile of our house where those trees are are pollarded every single year. So, I I think that what I'm trying to say is that um the ordinance is well intended,

50
00:24:28.159 --> 00:24:44.240
but has some inadvertent or unintended consequences that I think um probably would would benefit from being addressed either now or through a future revision to make sure that we're doing what we want through the ordinance and not doing what we don't want. >> Thank you.

51
00:24:44.240 --> 00:25:01.039
>> Thank you, Mr. Val Wel. >> Um Mr. Dietrich, >> I mean, I would just comment. I think that the the within the ordinance it it provides for um when I think when Martin was going over those four different items, it says in written determination

52
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:17.760
of the city arborist. So, I think that there is the ability that if if a homeowner has some I'll say a prescribed method to save a tree to trim a tree that if it's under the care of an

53
00:25:17.760 --> 00:25:33.919
certified arborist, they would be able to work with our city arborist and have that adjudicated. Will it will it cause some probably a call and have a h have have a discussion with the property owner? Yes. But that that's going to be hey when that homeowner says hey I've

54
00:25:33.919 --> 00:25:48.960
had this tree looked at by a certified arborist here's my report and and the care that he's going to undertake with the tree we'll have our arborist look at it and if the two arborists concur that that's the best method to preserve that tree then there probably wouldn't be a

55
00:25:48.960 --> 00:26:05.600
violation issued and that's how that would be handled at that time. But yes, it would. But we've had many instances over the last couple years where people unfortunately use that type of method to kind of get rid of a tree that they don't want

56
00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:20.880
because they've had some maybe unsuccessful success at the Shade Tree Commission and you know they've asked for a removal. They've said no. So they just kill the tree with a thousand cuts, so to speak. And that's what we're really trying to preserve. But yes, if if a

57
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:38.559
homeowner is is looking after a tree with a certified arborist, we'll work with that certified arborist to make sure because all we really care about is the health of the tree. >> So if the homeowner, just understand, gets an estimate and has a document in which the arborist indicates something

58
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:54.400
beyond 25%. So obviously the homeowner would have to have a conversation with the arborist to say this is our new ordinance. um you know if the conditions need to be greater than that document that submit that to >> I don't think you need to submit it. I

59
00:26:54.400 --> 00:27:10.159
think you just need to have just have that record that you said there would be a conversation between >> Yeah. But if it if that trimming occurs and then somebody reports it as a violation or a code enforcement or a shade tree commission member is out there observing it

60
00:27:10.159 --> 00:27:26.320
>> then that's when the discussion would happen. to clarify what the what expectation of >> it wouldn't be an obligation for that homeowner to submit it. >> Can I ask a quick question though? All of our um uh sub or contractors that are

61
00:27:26.320 --> 00:27:42.000
trimming trees in the city, they have to have a merkantile license. Um so I would assume >> not not necessarily because because because they're licensed because any contractor that has another state license does not need a mercantile license. So there's they have to be a

62
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:58.799
tree care there's a tree state tree care specialist license certificate process. So they're governed by that that's actually incorporated in our tree ordinance already. But >> I just want to be clear about what this is doing, what this is intended to capture. I appreciate Martin's comments

63
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:13.919
always. He's always, you know, coming armed with information and I also share the distinction of not being a tree expert. But when I drafted this um wanted to incorporate some generally understood principles in pruning

64
00:28:13.919 --> 00:28:31.120
practices based on objective standards like ANIE the ANIE standards are in here incorporated by reference. Could it be 19%? Could it be 20%, could it be 30%, yes, 25% is kind of within the range of

65
00:28:31.120 --> 00:28:48.640
general pruning practices based on the the reading of, you know, accepted pruning practices, but really what um the goal of this is not to drive by and see, well, you're at 27%,

66
00:28:48.640 --> 00:29:04.080
therefore here's your summons. It's really the shade tree commission understands and appreciates different pruning practices may be more appropriate for a particular type of tree. I'll give you an example. Everybody drives around and sees

67
00:29:04.080 --> 00:29:19.600
beautiful um uh crepe myrtle trees, all different sizes. Some of them look like bonsai trees, some of them are taller, but everybody can see like there's a a chop off of those. Every year they come back.

68
00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:35.360
It's sort of the method of approaching that tree that's not appropriate for an oak tree, but it's, you know, and and there are different pruning practices that are recognized that don't end up killing a tree. The Trade Tree Commission totally understands that and

69
00:29:35.360 --> 00:29:51.120
kind of was baked into the analysis of this analysis of this. This ordinance is, as I see it, trying to root out the wise guys that are just they get they either didn't want to they wanted to

70
00:29:51.120 --> 00:30:07.520
take down a tree or they applied and were denied and they basically, you know, you you say you gave it a haircut, but you send it to the guillotine, you know. So, you know, that's that's what this is geared towards is to to say, well, I didn't technically kill it. I

71
00:30:07.520 --> 00:30:23.840
just chopped off all of its arms and legs. It's like, come on, guys. This that is what this ordinance is targeted at. And that's reinforced by the second part of this, which is if you apply and are denied, there's a rebuttable presump presumption there that you're just trying to evade this. So, it's really

72
00:30:23.840 --> 00:30:40.720
geared towards the bad actors, not the the people that are consulting with an arborist or a landscape architect and saying, "Hey, you know, how would this really like to fit in? This is really going to bloom if you do this or that." If you if you're actually having those types of conversations and you have that type of plan, that's not what this

73
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:57.200
ordinance is trying to root out. It's trying to root out the bad actors that are just going around chopping things down willy-nilly without really much in a care in a world for this being a tree city. Not every town is KMA chooses to be. That's why it looks the way it looks. So therefore, if you're going to

74
00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:14.080
regulate to that degree, it makes sense to have something like this. we can see if this ends up being an enforcement issue. But I can tell you what is an enforcement issue right now is not having something like this on the books. So if this goes too far, we're going to know pretty soon. The good thing about

75
00:31:14.080 --> 00:31:29.679
that is we have the power and the authority and the discretion to lean into this heavy or not. And I think what I'm telling you up here based on my discussions with the Shay tree commission and based on the way the city enforces its ordinances, it's not trying to be heavy-handed here. It's trying to

76
00:31:29.679 --> 00:31:47.120
just save things that should be saved and not allow this sort of like wink wink, I didn't kill the tree type of stuff to happen. Um, but again, if it ends up being a problem, we have to modify it. I think we can deal with that. We can deal with it at this table with further discussion. Um, but I think

77
00:31:47.120 --> 00:32:02.960
this is a good starting place and something I think the Shade Tree Commission has been asking for to have just another tool in the toolbox to have that discussion with homeowners and remind them that yes, unfortunately this is a town that does regulate these types of things. Want to see them preserved

78
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:18.640
but not get out of control with it either. >> And understand too, this is an enforcement ordinance. The city would be the enforce the for enforcing party. Homeowners are entitled to due process if there's some explanation that will get flushed out in

79
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:34.960
the process. I know it's, you know, headache to go through that, but it's not just an automatic here's your fine in the mail. There's a there's a process and a discussion and engagement with code enforcement. So that's what that's all kind of baked into this, too. >> Thank you, Mr. Gillan. >> So there's I mean there there's the bad

80
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:51.279
actors, but there's also a lot of people are just simply trying to do the right thing. Um, and this is a direction in in doing the right thing. Um, but those people who are trying to do the right thing aren't necessarily tree experts either. Is there is there a way and I know this would be in the code and you

81
00:32:51.279 --> 00:33:05.919
go and you dig this up, you can find this in the code, but would the intention be I think it would be a good idea if something like this were easily searchable uh for people to find um off of the off the the Shade Tree Commission

82
00:33:05.919 --> 00:33:21.919
page. um in part like you have conversations with the experts when they come out and they're going to say what they're going to do with your trees. Um people people do their research and this there's a lot of really good information in here just in general about the nature

83
00:33:21.919 --> 00:33:37.519
of what should be done with trees as well. And I I could say for myself I'd feel much more comfortable being being able to locate this and read this before I had a conversation with somebody who was going to be doing work on my property. So, I would suggest if we can

84
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:54.080
um not just have it in the code so it's searchable. We have a lots of lots of information in the code. It's not always easy to find, but uh somewhere where there would be an easy link to be able to locate off the shade tree commission. I would highly recommend it. >> Maybe put it um right on the shade tree commission page on the website and put

85
00:33:54.080 --> 00:34:11.679
new ordinance. You know, please review prior to engaging with your you know, your arborist or tree surgeon or whatever. you know, if people are looking to figure out, as Councilman Bodner has said, what they can and cannot do just and and the other is can

86
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:28.000
we try and do um share this with the the known uh tree companies that come into the city because that would be very helpful too so that they understand and that, you know, they're helping the homeowner understand why they're making a

87
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:44.159
particular recommendation. Someone said 25%, you know, I I don't know what that would, you know, look like on a a tree. Um, so we're, you know, anyone as a homeowner is going to look to them to guide them on it. And if there's anything over that amount, I'm sure that the homeowner is probably going to want

88
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:59.440
to have something documented or have a discussion to make sure that there's no issues. So, as much as we can do about that communication, I think it would be very helpful. So are there Oh, >> listening to everything that's being

89
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:16.000
said, um I promise you I would have been cited in this situation. And um that's just the the outcome of having this ordinance. This gives a neighbor where you don't have a particularly good relationship. We have great relationships with many. We don't

90
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:31.760
have them with all. Um this gives them the ammunition to labber grenade at us. And now we have to hire the arborist for further um to further defend our actions. We may have to hire an attorney to go to court with us. And what winds

91
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:47.760
up happening is we now are spending more on professionals than it did to trim the trees. I think that um if we want to do this, one suggestion could be that we expand what needs to go

92
00:35:47.760 --> 00:36:03.599
to the shade tree commission to also include anything where more than 25% of the canopy is being proposed for reduction. Because now if I go ahead and do this and then the neighbor has code enforcement come over, I can't save the

93
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:21.599
tree. trees are already done and um I have no recourse if the city's arborist is more compelling than my arborist. Um I've got a you know a fine that I have to deal with with the city. Um and now two years later, guess what? The tree is fine. So, I I think that what bothers me

94
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:39.200
the most about it is that we are putting the city in a position, the city enforcement officer um and and the city in general in a position of trying to decide a dispute between neighbors. And I think that the intent of the person

95
00:36:39.200 --> 00:36:54.960
that wink wink nod nod just put that part of the ordinance in where it's simply if you were turned down and do these practices then you're going to be cited. 25% of a canopy is not a lot. I saw where you got it. I did the research. I saw that it's an

96
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:11.520
accepted practice of overp pruning depending on age and species. Um I also looked up what the um species that are excellent candidates for um pollarding, willow, lynen, malberry, popppler, sycamore,

97
00:37:11.520 --> 00:37:26.960
uh maple, ash, oak, elm. These are all the trees that we have in the city. So what we're say what we're saying is something that is healthy for certain species of trees is now we have an ordinance that says you can't do it. That's the problem that I'm having.

98
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:48.000
Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else for public comment on this ordinance? >> No. We will close public comment. Thank you. >> We have a motion and second to discuss potentially. >> I'll make the motion.

99
00:37:48.000 --> 00:38:04.960
>> I'll second. >> Any discussion? Council, are you ready for roll call? >> I I do just want to say one thing. Thank you for all of your comments. um it could be for a future, you know, addition to this at a future date, but um at this point, I think we're going to

100
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:20.480
move on with this. >> Can I add something as well? I I do appreciate >> Martin's comments and and um >> it's not We do have some ordinances that are kind of neighbor driven like the

101
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:36.240
invasive species ordinance, which really kind of does if you have an issue, report it. and it kind of initiates that process. This was kind of intentionally taken out of that realm to not be a neighbor versus neighbor type thing. Is it possible that

102
00:38:36.240 --> 00:38:53.599
that it could be used? Sure, like any other provision in the code. I mean, I spy an ordinance violation that can happen with anything in our code book. However, the operative portions in here for me are the substantive ones that point to actions that compromise the

103
00:38:53.599 --> 00:39:08.320
treere's structural integrity or materially reducing photosynthetic capacity. An arborist can kind of flush that out, but the idea is to avoid, you know, situation dependent conduct

104
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:24.240
that's going to, you know, deprive these trees of their ability to live on. So, I think that's really what it's geared towards. Um, and if we want to avoid this type of contact, this is a starting point. And again, we can if we have problems, if this becomes unworkable, if

105
00:39:24.240 --> 00:39:40.400
we can't manage it, if they can't manage it and we're getting phone calls about it and code enforcement can't do their jobs, we're right back at the table talking about updating it. >> Well, that's what I was going to say. I mean, we would rely on um Councilman Meyer being the liaison for the Sha Tree

106
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:55.680
and the city manager to let us know if we're seeing issues or problems arising from this kind of over 25% and being um how it's being defined and what is being viewed neighborto neighbor um kind of a thing. And I I think that's why it's

107
00:39:55.680 --> 00:40:12.000
advisable that we do as much as we can to get this out into the public so homeowners know, you know, to get that documentation when someone comes to talk to them about their tree and what they're recommending that they're doing. Um and uh making sure also that the um

108
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:27.440
any of the the tree uh landscapers coming into the city who are doing this kind of work are aware um so that they're you know prepared to provide that information to a respective client. So I guess >> and I I think council's demonstrated

109
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:43.440
that if you view the pendulum as having swung too far, we've made those adjustments in the past on things big or small. So >> are we all comfortable at this point? I just want to make a com. >> Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Um, Shade Tree Commission, we treat every case, every

110
00:40:43.440 --> 00:41:00.160
property, every tree as a case by case situation. Okay. We we try to work with the applicants or other people that may have violated the the laws and maybe not had known that there's so many laws. But we have created tools that help people. you know, we have the two for one tree

111
00:41:00.160 --> 00:41:15.200
program, but we also have the tree bank program because some places may don't have enough they don't have enough room to plant more trees, you know, so we've created more tools, more options for the public. Um, we we just want to let the people know that we're here to work with

112
00:41:15.200 --> 00:41:29.440
you. And this really comes down to the fact that I don't know how many times I can tell you that when a applica applicant is denied for a lot of times they want their tree to be removed from their property for often ridiculous

113
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:48.000
reasons. They will get upset and they will threaten us that they're going to at some point they're going to have a telephone I mean a telephone pole in their yard. And that's this is what that scared to the people that are going to hurt these trees. And um and I I hate to say it, but you know, everybody's part

114
00:41:48.000 --> 00:42:03.359
of this program. You know, we support the trees. Trees, Kate May's beautiful because of the trees and the architecture. And uh again, just talk to us. We're willing to work with you. We're willing to meet with you beforehand and give you our recommendations.

115
00:42:03.359 --> 00:42:18.319
>> Thank you, Councilman Meyer. >> Thank you. >> Ready for roll call? >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. Council member Bodner, >> yes. >> Council member Baldwin, >> yes. >> Mayor Mulliko,

116
00:42:18.319 --> 00:42:34.160
>> yes. >> Moving on to public portion on resolutions only. Anyone wishing to comment on the resolutions listed on the consent agenda or thereafter, please come to the podium and give your name and address for the record. Anyone for

117
00:42:34.160 --> 00:42:55.680
resolutions only? Uh my name is John Lynch. I'm here with my wife. We own the house at 714 Corgi Street in uh Kate May. Uh I'm here to discuss the resolution that's coming before you this evening about the uh renewal of the liquor license for the

118
00:42:55.680 --> 00:43:12.800
Southern Mansion. If I may, I have some pictures I would like to pass around for you. >> Um Aaron, which resolution is that for the record? Is it 220 or >> 226? >> It's 226 06 2026. Resolution approving alcoholic

119
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:38.560
beverage license renewals for 2026 2027 license year. >> Thank you. Um, in 2022, you passed a resolution 200-072022. That that resolution dealt with the transfer of the liquor license to the

120
00:43:38.560 --> 00:43:55.839
Southern Mansion. uh as part of that resolution which I have in front of me there's many paces places in here where it speaks to conditions that were going to be attached to the resolution and they are attached as exhibit A for that matter but also want

121
00:43:55.839 --> 00:44:10.720
to explain that at the time there were neighbors I was one of them that we met with the applicant with to express concerns and the applicant met with us there were meetings with the uh her lawyer at the

122
00:44:10.720 --> 00:44:26.240
time and we met and we agreed to certain things that she would do that would enable us not to object to this going forward thinking we were being good neighbors in terms of she needed a liquor license for this for the purpose of her hospitality for the guest house.

123
00:44:26.240 --> 00:44:43.280
Um and if you read through your resolution you're going to see the the language reflects that this this resolution was approved on that basis. Same thing with your meeting minutes. So, if you go I'm going to direct you your attention to I'll read them because they're short.

124
00:44:43.280 --> 00:45:00.000
Condition 12 of exhibit A to that resolution says the exterior lights facing Gorgeous Street will be placed on a timer which will be turned off at 9:00 p.m. each evening. Right. Pretty much black and white. Condition 14 speaks to

125
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:15.119
chairs and ashtrays will be removed from the rear patio area budding Cordia Street and no smoking signs will be posted in those areas. Again, black and white and it it seems black and white, but there are a lot of conversations and discussions at the time because we had a

126
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:30.640
problem back then where people were gathering at the rear of the southern mansion. They were smoking, they were drinking and carrying on through the hours and that's how we agreed to it. And she said, "Yeah, I'll redirect the attention. I'll sign it." And with regarding the lighting, the same thing. There was a problem that we have others

127
00:45:30.640 --> 00:45:47.440
we'll speak to this evening, but we dealt with it. Condition 15 was near and dear to all of us. It says that the hedro facing Corgi Street will be maintained and replaced within a reasonable amount of time if it dies. Now, the thinking of that, although the

128
00:45:47.440 --> 00:46:03.440
hedge does go around the entire property, our thinking at the time was that hedge was the buffer for Corgi Street. was a very narrow buffer. I mean, you have the building, you have a walkway, then you have a hedro, then you have gorge street. Um, so when she agreed to do

129
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:19.119
that, we we discussed, you know, a hedro just doesn't all the conversation we just had about the tree, I heard you about the trees. Well, hedros require constant maintenance. I mean, they they thin out, some of the old wood dies, you have to replace it with new plants. is meant to

130
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:34.240
be something that establishes of a buffer that's going to be in perpetuity but requires perpetual care. And uh the reason I'm here tonight or this afternoon is um whereas these conditions were not

131
00:46:34.240 --> 00:46:50.960
just promises to us. They were incorporated into your approval that you gave them. You relied upon those conditions in approving the transfer. we relied upon to get those conditions and improving the transfer and the hearing record reflects I was there other

132
00:46:50.960 --> 00:47:05.440
neighbors were here the hearing record if you go back will speak will speak to uh supporting the the the transfer of the license subject to the conditions being honored uh so that compliance with those conditions were material to the very

133
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:22.960
approval the very basis upon which that transfer was of liquor license was approved. So, let me direct your attention to a couple of things. You look at photo one in the packet I gave you. That is the walkway out the rear door of

134
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:39.839
the southern mansion. To the left, you don't really see it, but that's the hedro. But I want you to go go down go down the pathway till you see a like a vertical. You see air conditioning is on the right. Then you see the like a T-square. Well, if you look closely, there are

135
00:47:39.839 --> 00:47:55.280
chairs, there are tables, and there's cigarette receptacles. And there's no there there's nothing out there about signage. And I I wish to add four years, four years in the making, and the neighbors didn't want to come back to

136
00:47:55.280 --> 00:48:12.000
you folks and and to be the kind of people calling the city up saying, "We got a problem." And whining about it. But I'm learning that's that's the process. So, I want you then to turn to pages two, three, and four.

137
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:28.079
>> Deputy mayor, it has been five minutes. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> And pages two, three, and four show the condition of of the hedro as it as it sits. >> And I just took a couple shots. I mean, they're it wasn't meant to be representative of the worst. It was just

138
00:48:28.079 --> 00:48:43.760
these are shots. >> Thank you, sir. So it's it's pretty clear this hedro is is is a shambles. And what's not clear is in many of the places where you're looking at green in photograph, it's a single branch. Literally a single branch coming out.

139
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:59.920
There's no depth to this whatsoever. >> Okay? >> Nothing's been done. And and I went I wanted to bring that to your attention. Then if you look at uh where that puts us well I'm not the

140
00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:17.200
lawyer here and I don't pretend to be but I I think well I do know at the time the license was approved the discussion among council was this will have some benefits in addition to helping a guest house maybe thrive and the benefits was they gave council more control because

141
00:49:17.200 --> 00:49:32.480
this liquor license was going to be subject to annual renewal. Mhm. >> It wasn't by right. It was by annual annual renewal. >> So, I'm suggesting that four years is a long time. >> Sir, have you recently spoken to um the

142
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:48.559
property owner? >> I haven't spoken to her. Actually, we were at the uh hearing board Thursday. I did see her there. >> Okay. >> But that's when she was trying to get approval for 120 seat bar and restaurant. >> Okay. >> Which went south. Okay. >> As it should as it should have in my

143
00:49:48.559 --> 00:50:03.440
opinion. Okay. >> But in in all due respect, >> if I enter into an agreement with you, >> it's not your job to enfor agreement. I signed the agreement. I execute the agreement. There are

144
00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:18.240
conditions, active conditions to her operation, and it's her operation. You would think that she'd be attentive to the details, >> understood, of what's going on. So, as you consider your options this afternoon

145
00:50:18.240 --> 00:50:35.280
for the liquor license renewal, I guess you could renew it with conditions or I I would hope that you would consider doing what the council discussed back then, which was the liquor license gives you more control. And perhaps you you

146
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:51.280
don't renew it. Maybe first you say you have to address all the issues that are a concern before you before we renew it. Or if you're so inclined, you don't renew it at all. That's for you to deal with. >> Okay. >> My issue is I'm bringing before you before you what I believe is a material

147
00:50:51.280 --> 00:51:07.760
breach of the agreement the conditions to your approval on the basis of which that collision was was transferred. >> Thank you. We appreciate your time. >> Questions or >> No. >> Thank you. >> Is there anyone else from the public

148
00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:26.000
wishing to speak on resolutions only? Please state your name, address, um, and your marks to five minutes, please. >> Good afternoon. I My name is Jane Petleski Howard. We reside at 706 Corgi Street. We purchased

149
00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:43.599
it as a second home in 2018 and became full-time full-time residents in 2022. And I would like to continue what John has discussed if I may. Our home is

150
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:58.480
directly across the street from the rear of the Southern Mansion. John and I last Friday did go to the city of Cape May police department and code enforcement and have filed just a little closer to

151
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:15.280
have filed complaints. Um, and I would like to state my concerns. Um, my understanding is the liquor license cannot be in violations of alcoholic beverage control laws, violations of municipal liquor ordinances, violations

152
00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:32.240
of conditions attached to the license approval, misrepresent misrepresentations made during the application process, and conduct demonstrating the lency is not fit to hold the license. I would like to share that I have personally witnessed on more

153
00:52:32.240 --> 00:52:48.720
than one occasion wedding guests cutting through a gap in the southern mansion's hedro with their drinks in hand to stand on the sidewalk on Corgi Street smoking cigarettes and cannabis. Although cannabis is now legal in the state of New Jersey, it is not legal to smoke it

154
00:52:48.720 --> 00:53:05.440
in public. The hedro John spoke of was addressed in condition 15 under the 2022 resolution when the transfer of the liquor license was approved. And please refer to photo 4 for the gap in that.

155
00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:22.480
We have also experienced several nights of interrupted sleep when at 1 to 2:00 a.m. intoxicated and/or stoned people are ascending or descending the spiral staircase or sitting on an upper deck of the southern mansion talking and laughing loudly enough to wake us at

156
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:37.040
this ungodly time. Please refer to photo 9 for the view of the spiral staircase and the deck. There is ongoing light pollution from lights that outline the southern mansion's roof line and either side of the spiral staircase. They

157
00:53:37.040 --> 00:53:55.440
remain on 24/7, 365 days a year. They shine into our homes, especially our second level bedroom. This was addressed by condition 12 under the 2022 resolution when the transfer of the liquor license was first approved.

158
00:53:55.440 --> 00:54:12.240
Please again refer to photo number nine. And as John has already said, the lights were to be on a timer and turn off nightly at 9:00 p.m. which does not occur. Lastly, the roof exhaust vent emits sickening odors, cooking odors, and runs

159
00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:27.520
noisily for hours on end, and at times seemed to be forgotten as it runs all night into the next day. I've done some research and found that exhaust vents are to run 5 to 15 minutes prior to cooking, during cooking, and after

160
00:54:27.520 --> 00:54:44.400
cooking for 15 to 30 minutes to clear lingering smoke, grease laden vapors, and heat from the kitchen. This exhaust vent is clearly running much longer than that. Can you imagine living behind this as we do?

161
00:54:44.400 --> 00:55:01.280
Would it be possible to install a new quieter piece of equipment with filtering? And please see photos 10 and 11 for the view of the exhaust fan. Prior to this Friday, we hadn't gone to the police department nor code

162
00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:16.400
enforcement as honestly we were all trying to be good neighbors. However, we've collectively realized that this has gone on far too long and are here before you seeking your help with these matters. I thank you all for your time

163
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:31.599
and your assistance. Thank you, Jane. Is there anyone else wishing? Yes, please state your name, address, and five minutes for your >> Elizabeth Parker, 716 Corgi Street.

164
00:55:31.599 --> 00:55:49.119
Uh, I'm requesting that we if additional conditions can be included in any license renewal. Specifically,

165
00:55:49.119 --> 00:56:05.200
Corgi Street has been used as a loading zone for the Southern Mansion and most recently a tractor trailer. As a matter of fact, it was last week tractor trailer blocked Corgi Street for

166
00:56:05.200 --> 00:56:21.440
a total of 21 minutes. And I have pictures of that in this packet that was given to you. I think it's number six. Number six and let me say >> five and six.

167
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:42.480
>> Five and >> five and six, >> right? Yep. Five and six. Corgi Street is only 19 feet wide with parking allowed on one side. So the travel lane is about 9 to 10 ft

168
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:59.200
and that compromises any special emergency services that could reach residents in time as a cartw. It's just too narrow. Um, we also have more full-time residents with children living along

169
00:56:59.200 --> 00:57:15.119
Corgi Street than we did in 2022. And I think that this also addresses more public health and safety issues, frankly. Uh, and I'm hoping that that will be considered in renewing this license.

170
00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:31.040
Another complaint that I have or issue concern is the fact that uh they're not maintaining the streetscape. It's completely neglected as you can see in photo seven and eight.

171
00:57:31.040 --> 00:57:48.880
Um there's no grass. There's cement strewn across the um the uh shoulder and it's very unsightly. And there's been just total neglect of John as John has said with the uh with the

172
00:57:48.880 --> 00:58:05.599
hedgero. So, uh I think that needs to be addressed as well. And then the employees of the southern mansion should really park on site uh or use a municipal parking lot like

173
00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:21.920
many of the people do in town that work in at the mall rather than monopolize the limited parking on Gorgi Street. Uh last I think it was two weeks ago um there was an employee on southern uh from the southern mansion that parked a

174
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:39.040
huge van for oh I think it was about four or five hours um and I assume she was working in the kitchen because she was wearing one of those uh aprons and she came back and forth to check on her van. Uh the windows were down and I think she was

175
00:58:39.040 --> 00:58:56.000
checking on whether whether she had a dog or a cat in the van. So I I I think this is not something we want to continue having on our street. So I I really really respectfully request that these

176
00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:18.160
conditions be added to the renewal of the liquor license. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Gillan Schwarz. Um is there anyone else from the public? I'm sorry. on on resolutions only. >> Good afternoon, Jules Rous 1010 New York

177
00:59:18.160 --> 00:59:34.480
Avenue. Uh more of a question for Mr. Dietrich. Uh dealing with U 228. Uh we're spending a lot of money for the del plant and it's been ongoing now for

178
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:49.040
two or three or four years and will probably continue on for another couple years. At at what point are we in a in a position to look to those who we are serving water to

179
00:59:49.040 --> 01:00:05.520
reimburse us in some fashion for the monies that we are front fronting uh for this project? >> Well, I mean at this point we're not fronting any money. Um but that's going to be we are looking at that and that'll be part of the analysis as we move

180
01:00:05.520 --> 01:00:22.960
forward to make sure that uh all users of the water system are paying their share as as we progress through this project. >> So there is there is a there is a format that's established to for us to become whole. >> Yep. We've been meeting a couple times

181
01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:38.480
now and we're going to be presenting some some information to council at an upcoming meeting to uh uh to show how our current costs are going to be met as well as future costs for this project. >> Great. Thank you.

182
01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:56.319
>> Thank you, Mr. Roush. Anyone else from the public wishing to speak on resolutions only? Mr. Mr. Gillan Schwarz, I did want to go back to you on the comments from the public with regard to this application. >> Right. Thank you, Deputy Mayor. I wanted to make a suggestion for council as a

183
01:00:56.319 --> 01:01:12.640
way to navigate this one. We have a list of renewals. Um, and one of them is is the uh application that the neighbors are concerned with. The rest of them are not

184
01:01:12.640 --> 01:01:30.160
concerning. It it sounds like so they're part of the routine renewals. What what council might consider doing is and I think we're going to have another batch of these at the next June meeting >> on the 16th there will be another batch of >> we usually break it up. We usually have you know backtoback renewals on the June

185
01:01:30.160 --> 01:01:46.559
agendas because the licenses the terms of the licenses are July 1st. So and some there's no emergency or fire drill to do this tonight if there are concerns. Um, and what could I think the parties, the city being one of them,

186
01:01:46.559 --> 01:02:02.640
city, the neighbors, the uh lency could benefit maybe from tableabling that renewal, pushing it to the 16th agenda. And I believe that there's been some contact with code enforcement, and I would

187
01:02:02.640 --> 01:02:19.040
strongly encourage all parties to have these discussions about these concerns in advance of that date. The applicant's not here tonight. In fairness to them, they need an opportunity to receive these comments. Maybe they've heard them before, maybe not. Maybe not to this

188
01:02:19.040 --> 01:02:35.280
degree, but they need to be aware of this. Um, I'm sure they'll watch the meeting. They need to digest them and decide how they're going to respond. Um, and we did some problem solving on this application when it first came before council. There was two letters from

189
01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:52.160
council that ended up being baked into a resolution. and sounds like that conversation may need to be revisited, but give them an opportunity to respond before the 16th, which will be council's next meeting. >> And maybe these issues will be addressed

190
01:02:52.160 --> 01:03:07.280
or not, or maybe there'll be some new idea that nobody thought of yet. But, um, that's what I would suggest. I would suggest that there's no fire drill for council to take action on that renewal tonight. July 1st is the the the

191
01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:24.079
>> new term. we have another council meeting between now and then. You can table just that that renewal, approve the rest of them, essentially remove that from the resolution, let the other ones go, and then just push that one to the 16th and then allow these discussions to continue.

192
01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:40.960
>> So, the recommendation is is that we amend resolution 226 and remove the New Jersey Farmers Cooperative Group LLC >> from the resolution. Correct. >> Um, do I have a motion for that amendment?

193
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:57.280
>> I'll make that I'll make that amendment motion. I mean, >> I'll second. >> Okay, we have an amended resolution. >> We'll do roll call if unless there's further discussion by council. Is there any further discussion, council? >> All right. So, this is the motion to

194
01:03:57.280 --> 01:04:13.119
amend to remove New Jersey Farmers Cooper. >> I have something to bring up. >> Okay. >> When you have these discussions, are you going to discuss the loading as well? >> The new the new topics that were brought up. Well, I was part of I was going to ask after we did the roll call how what the process will be.

195
01:04:13.119 --> 01:04:29.039
>> Okay. >> For exactly along your the line of thinking, Councilman Meer, >> a vote now or just discuss that now. >> I would I would like to vote and then we could add we could talk about what we think the process should be and what we'd like to see before this is brought back before us. Is everyone in agreement

196
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:45.839
with that as far as the process is concerned or do you want to have the discussion first? I think yeah, my thought is is we just pull it pull that and make the the formal vote on the amended resolution >> and then at that point um >> discuss what we want to see.

197
01:04:45.839 --> 01:05:02.799
>> Well, >> I I would I'm prepared to make a recommendation on that too. Um for council's consideration, >> we're ultimately at some point we we should make a decision on this one way or the other. And that can mean conditions that maybe somebody didn't

198
01:05:02.799 --> 01:05:18.960
agree to either. Um it's within our authority to make conditions that are in the public interest. They have to be within reason. But um what I would suggest is the process here is there's been a and I mean this in the nicest way possible, a laundry list of concerns

199
01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:35.520
that were put on the record tonight. I would encourage the applicant to listen to those concerns. I would encourage code enforcement and I think speaking to the city manager, those should be routed. We're the enforcement agency. Uh neighbor complaints come in. It's

200
01:05:35.520 --> 01:05:52.160
ultimately up to us whether they're enforced or not. I would encourage a discussion to occur between code enforcement, the owner and the complaintants and see if there can be some synthesis made before the next is

201
01:05:52.160 --> 01:06:08.319
this going to be renewed or not or what are the conditions and those that discussion occurs on the 16th. So that's what I would encourage to happen, but that should occur be routed through code enforcement because ultimately what happens next is really going to be be routed through the city.

202
01:06:08.319 --> 01:06:24.160
>> Okay. So are we suggesting that the neighbors codify their complaints and present them to >> I think they have >> they have and code enforcement and Okay. So Mr. district. >> They've I think they >> the city coordinate talk talking with the neighbors as well as talking with

203
01:06:24.160 --> 01:06:39.599
the southern mansion and work towards getting a meeting together to facilitate that discussion. >> Mr. Dietrich, >> I'll work with code enforcement to see the validity and and work through some of these issues and concerns that the

204
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:57.280
residents have and figure out how they can be addressed >> because they've been slated now, too. So, they may you need to talk. There's going to be a dialogue with Southern Mansion for sure. >> And you know, the last time that we had a discussion, it was new. It was, well, liquor license is going here. What's that going to mean? And the applicant

205
01:06:57.280 --> 01:07:13.039
volunteered conditions in writing and those conditions were memorialized in a resolution. It, you know, that it could be, hey, we're going to fix this or that within X amount. I I don't know what it is. Okay. But they they need to there's

206
01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:30.160
been some concerns addressed. We have to make a decision on a renewal >> and maybe some conditions. Give the applicant an opportunity to review and respond to them. We don't know what they're going to say. Maybe it's okie do we'll take care of it or no way. I I have no idea. So >> So I think from from my standpoint I I

207
01:07:30.160 --> 01:07:44.480
start with this. I know this has been going they've had this for four years. Um this has been going on for four for four years and they have the liquor license is renewed on a yearly basis. I haven't been here for four years, but I

208
01:07:44.480 --> 01:08:00.480
was here last year and there wasn't any there wasn't any objection, there wasn't any commentary, there wasn't any discussion about it, which is all all well and good. Um my you know, at at the same time, if it has been going on for a long period of

209
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:18.880
time, um I think that it's reasonable to believe that the applicants may not realize that there were issues there as well. Now, they're subject to those conditions. They're supposed to abide by by those conditions. You know, on the

210
01:08:18.880 --> 01:08:34.880
other hand, we haven't heard from them. Maybe it is a big piece of property. I'm not defending them, but I'm just saying it's a big maybe they know about something, maybe they don't know about something. I think it it merits hearing what their point of view is um is on

211
01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:50.000
this because there certainly do seem to be points of contention for the neighbors. But um I think that you need to have everybody at the table for for that discussion and in part as I said didn't this for me this is the first time I'm hearing about any of these

212
01:08:50.000 --> 01:09:07.839
particular issues to to this degree um seeing some of these issues to you know for for the first time. So, um, yeah, I think that there needs to be some type of further opportunity to have a discussion >> and and that just to put it in context,

213
01:09:07.839 --> 01:09:23.199
if this was the initial application and we received this these type of comments, we would set it for a hearing. So, that's what we're do. We're just giving an opportunity for everybody to say their piece. If there's new concerns, old concerns, let the let the neighbors express their concerns, let the

214
01:09:23.199 --> 01:09:39.920
applicant respond and put whatever they want to put on and and council will have the benefit of all that information to make a decision. >> Exactly. >> So, we appreciate all of the comments. Um, and if you've already filed those complaints with code enforcement, Mr. Dietrich will u follow up with them and

215
01:09:39.920 --> 01:09:57.920
we will give the applicant their due process um to come back and um you know discuss how uh they're they're planning on remediating before we consider the application. Yes, sir. >> Uh it's John Lynch again from 714 CI

216
01:09:57.920 --> 01:10:14.719
Street. Just so I don't screw up the process, if the applicant were to reach out to me, for example, do you want me to speak to her direct directly or just deal with solely within the hands of you folks? >> I don't I don't think we would prevent any neighbors from having contact with

217
01:10:14.719 --> 01:10:30.719
each other if you want to have those discussions directly. I think what the city's proposing is that because we're ultimately the party that will be enforcing to offer code enforcement as an inter intermediary to have those discussions. But if you're comfortable having those discussions directly, it's

218
01:10:30.719 --> 01:10:45.840
just kind of we would like to know the outcome of that and that's why I think we're proposing to have >> Yeah. >> But you're not but you're not required to go. Code enforcement will review these and and reach out to them. We're not saying you need to go talk to the owner. We will be having those

219
01:10:45.840 --> 01:11:01.120
discussions. But but you can if you want to. I think that's >> um Thank you. But just to be clear, I discussed the I I filed one of the complaints. I dealt with the conditions. But another neighbor who spoke tonight was was Betsy Parker and she was asking

220
01:11:01.120 --> 01:11:17.600
to say, "Can we also address some some other conditions like we got real problems on Cordy Street with deliveries being taken there? We have the school children there." So with >> that's why I was suggesting have code enforcement route route this discussion. >> Okay. >> Yeah.

221
01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:32.159
>> Why don't I leave I leave it this way. Could you let code enforcement know that >> maybe I'll give my phone number. He can reach me anytime. represent maybe they represent a group if he wants to reach out to me and if there's going to be a meeting >> Mr. Dietrich will take that information from Mr. Lynch

222
01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:49.920
>> and we have your info Mr. Lynch. >> Yes. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you all for your time on that. >> So council we do have a motion and a second just to amend resolution 226 to remove the New Jersey Farmers Cooperative >> if you are ready to vote.

223
01:11:49.920 --> 01:12:04.400
>> This is specifically just to amend it. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh, Council Member Meyer, >> yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade, >> yes. >> Council member Bodner, >> yes. >> Council member Baldwin, >> yes. >> Mayor Mullik, >> abstain.

224
01:12:04.400 --> 01:12:22.400
>> Now, would we uh um vote on this as a consent agenda or Okay. >> Okay. >> And before council moves on, I just did want to have a comment on one of the resolutions uh the one that Mr. Ralph had talked about uh number 228, the water treatment bill. Just to note that

225
01:12:22.400 --> 01:12:37.840
is two just around $2 million under what the engineers estimate was for that project. >> Can I ask one additional question about that resolution or should I just pull it and then ask the question? >> You can ask it now and if I can answer it then we can

226
01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:54.719
>> um and I know we had a discussion about this specific resolution. Um there was one qualifier in that and I just want to make sure that the general contractor is able to um proceed with that >> with that one qualifier that that

227
01:12:54.719 --> 01:13:09.360
>> the one piece of documentation we did receive the sufficient documentation of >> So you're comfortable with that? Yes. Okay. That was >> that Yeah, that was that was the only pause I didn't quite know about and I wanted to make sure that we're okay with proceeding in the >> we received that so it's not an issue.

228
01:13:09.360 --> 01:13:31.120
>> Okay. Thank you. Council, anything else at this point? >> Can I have one other pulled? >> Yep. >> Um, the 227, please. And are we pulling 226 or we're >> No,

229
01:13:31.120 --> 01:13:47.640
>> I don't think you No, just 227. >> Do you feel strongly if it's on the consent? >> Might I think the mayor abstained. Oh, that's right. >> He did abstain. Yeah. Well, he abstained from amending it. >> Okay. >> And now New Jersey Farmers is no longer on that resolution.

230
01:13:48.000 --> 01:14:06.480
>> I'm okay if it's on the consent. I defer to you. >> Okay. >> We good. >> Is that okay? >> Okay. So, we are removing 227 the club licenses. Anything else removed from the consent agenda tonight?

231
01:14:06.480 --> 01:14:23.760
>> Okay. Anything else, council? No. >> Do we have a motion to adopt the consent agenda? Council, >> I'll make a motion. >> I'll second. >> Council member Meyer? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDeade? >> Yes. >> Council member Vodner? >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin? >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullock?

232
01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:41.760
>> Yes. >> And back to 22706 2022. Resolution approving alcoholic beverage club license renewals for the 2026 2027 license year. Do we have a motion in a second? >> I'll make the motion. >> I'll second

233
01:14:41.760 --> 01:15:00.320
council discussion. >> I'm just a member of the Corinthian Yacht Club, so I'm going to abstain from this. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other discussion? Are we ready for roll call? Council. >> Council member Meyer? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDeade?

234
01:15:00.320 --> 01:15:32.320
>> Yes. >> Council member Bodner? >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin, >> abstain. Mayor Mullock, this is just club licenses. Mayor, >> hey, you there? >> Oh, wait. We're gonna You're back on speaker. Could you repeat that, please? >> Yes.

235
01:15:32.320 --> 01:15:52.000
>> Thank you. All right. So, moving on to the regular agenda this evening. And I believe uh the manager might want to speak to council on that. >> Yes. Thank you. Um so, we I've spoken to the um both the uh 235 and 236 are

236
01:15:52.000 --> 01:16:07.120
regarding the same uh property and location. Um and and I think that we'd like to flip-flop the order if you wouldn't mind. Let's deal with the uh 236 first. uh which is the um for the special event

237
01:16:07.120 --> 01:16:23.760
portion of the project and I think the applicant's going to make a profer to u possibly table the other one so that we can combine a condition and bring it back for the next meeting but so let's if you don't mind the out of order of the the resolutions

238
01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:39.360
>> and just for the record uh the mayor will be recusing himself from both of these resolutions and our solicitor stepped away as well. >> Thank you. Good evening. >> Good evening, council members. Scott Silver from the law firm of Nimad Davis and Goldstein on behalf of King Edward

239
01:16:39.360 --> 01:16:56.560
Corp, which trades as a Sha Hotel. Before you is a special event permit. Every summer the shelf hotel offers entertainment on its veranda and it in conjunction with that files an

240
01:16:56.560 --> 01:17:12.320
application with the state division of alcoholic beverage control for a expansion of premises permit. The expansion of premises permit essentially gives more room to the audience who is out uh on the front lawn which is

241
01:17:12.320 --> 01:17:28.480
licensed for alcoholic beverage service and it asks that the division of alcoholic beverage control expand the liquor license out to the curb line that allows people who are uh w observing the

242
01:17:28.480 --> 01:17:45.199
entertainment to go into the building by buy alcoholic beverages es bring them outside and consume them not only on the front lawn but on the uh sidewalk out to the curb as well. The applications

243
01:17:45.199 --> 01:18:01.440
before the Division of Alcoholic Beverage Control require input from the city council and that's one of the things we're seeking. Secondly, there is the special events permit that is pending that would allow this in the

244
01:18:01.440 --> 01:18:18.320
first place because it's occurring on city property. This is exactly uh the same event that happened last summer numerous times. We're seeking 21 dates on Thursdays June through October. And

245
01:18:18.320 --> 01:18:33.440
uh there have never been, as far as I'm aware, anything other than good things, good feedback, good reflection on the city for these events. We would ask that you authorize them again for this coming summer for the 21 days that we

246
01:18:33.440 --> 01:18:48.400
requested. >> Council, are there any questions? >> Council, if if I if you don't mind. Um I believe that when we changed the uh operation to to allow them to go out the curb line actually improved the event

247
01:18:48.400 --> 01:19:04.880
and made it more secure and and more functionally operational because you know we weren't worried about from the property line to that curb line and and intermixing and and so I think it actually helped uh the police department control and help the uh applicant

248
01:19:04.880 --> 01:19:21.679
control the consumption of alcohol in that in a better controlled space. Uh, so I I do think that it's a recommendation and I think having a recommendation to kind of move this to an annual thing as a condition of their annual liquor license based on uh

249
01:19:21.679 --> 01:19:37.760
special events, I think could be something that council could look at recommending. >> So, Mr. Dietrich, um, are there any concerns that have been raised by the police department or fire department in the last year based on these new conditions? We have memos from both of those uh both chiefs that the that the

250
01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:54.080
applicant has worked well with both of those departments in making sure that they have a safe event >> for the public. >> Thank you. So, I would like to hear more about that as ongoing because when I look at the the special event um permit applications that we receive and this is

251
01:19:54.080 --> 01:20:09.600
a general a general remark not just directed at this at this one although I would say this is a thorough and complete special event um application package. It provides a lot of information about the different dates regarding your insurance. We have feedback from the fire department,

252
01:20:09.600 --> 01:20:25.600
feedback from the police department, um, and you know, essentially a lot of information about how the how the event is going to take place. One of the >> Go ahead. I was going to say I I

253
01:20:25.600 --> 01:20:42.159
um in in these the applications the information that we get I think um to me they provide a lot of really valuable information that and I appreciate seeing them on an individual application standpoint because with our special

254
01:20:42.159 --> 01:20:58.640
events that take place in town, everyone is really unique. um unique simply based off of the the location, the time of year, um the the hours, uh the circumstances, the the type of

255
01:20:58.640 --> 01:21:15.840
event. So, I I just want to say that in particular if we were looking to do something different. I really want to hear um in particular from our police chief because if we're adopting something considering

256
01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:31.760
adopting something as a condition, events can change and morph into u into different types of of events over over time. Um, I would note related to this particular special event. Um, I agree

257
01:21:31.760 --> 01:21:49.120
it's I and I appreciate the the the fact that this has actually enhanced the uh I guess the experience but also from the the experience from the the work aspect from the police department, the city's um ability to be able to enforce this.

258
01:21:49.120 --> 01:22:05.600
But this is this is the second year that we've had this application. I know the ramble's been going on for a long time, but in um with this model, this is the second year regarding um regarding in this in this particular manner. >> So the only thing that would be a

259
01:22:05.600 --> 01:22:20.320
condition as part of the annual liquor license would be that you're allowing the expansion of the liquor to go from the property line to the curb line. What would continue to happen annually would be their review of this. You you are not that condition would not automatically

260
01:22:20.320 --> 01:22:35.920
approve the event itself. That event and that application that you see would still be submitted to the city and go through its normal review process every year to make sure that all the eyes are dotted and tees are crossed to make sure that we're reviewing to make sure that

261
01:22:35.920 --> 01:22:53.199
all the um city costs are extended to to the applicant and and that they are paying which I just want to reiterate last year they paid all of the necessary city costs for this. So none of that would change. That would still be reviewed and you know that we're not

262
01:22:53.199 --> 01:23:06.960
giving them a rubber stamp of the event forever, you know, as part of the condition. It's really just your review of this. Instead of having two resolutions, you're having it as one resolution. you you would be reviewing

263
01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:25.440
the the liquor license and the expansion of the the liquor license on the special event days as approved by the special events coordinator. And that's why we need to work out what that language of that condition because it's only going to condition it for the special event

264
01:23:25.440 --> 01:23:42.320
days out to the curb line for that. We're still going to go through our normal review process and make sure that all the documentation submitted for insurance, his operational plan, their scheduling of offduty officers, and making sure that we're paying for all

265
01:23:42.320 --> 01:23:58.800
the city costs and functions. So, all of none of that is changing that that package that you see. The city will review that and and sign off on that every year. Um, it's just that instead of doing it with two resolutions, you're going to do it with one. So that's the

266
01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:14.239
assurance I'm looking for. I understand the efficiency that the applicant is is looking to to do and the reason for that. I just wanted to I needed that reassurance. So thank you. I appreciate that. >> It definitely will get the same review and scrutiny just like every one of our public events. >> Okay. >> Do thanks

267
01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:30.480
>> council. Is there any more questions on resolution 236? And then we would probably So if you act on 236, the followup would be to table 235 to the next meeting and it'll be

268
01:24:30.480 --> 01:24:45.840
revised to have a condition amended to it. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> So council, would you like to act first on 236? Are you prepared for that? Okay. So do we have a motion to adopt 236? And this is the resolution regarding the

269
01:24:45.840 --> 01:25:02.239
open temporary open container for the Howard Street ramble event. >> I'll make the motion. >> I'll second. Any further discussion? Council, >> no. >> Council member Meyer, >> yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade, >> yes. >> Council member Bodner, >> yes. >> Council member Baldwin,

270
01:25:02.239 --> 01:25:17.199
>> yes. >> And Mayor Mollik is recused from this. >> Yep. >> All right. Moving on to 23506. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. >> Moving on to 23506 2026. This is the resolution authorizing the renewal of

271
01:25:17.199 --> 01:25:42.159
the ABC license um 0502-3616004 >> to be considered by the director of uh the alcoholic beverage control pursuant to the conflict license. This is for the um King Edward license. If there is a motion to table that to the June 16th meeting. I'll make the motion to table.

272
01:25:42.159 --> 01:25:58.719
>> I'll second. Any further discussion, council? >> Council member Meyer, >> yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade, >> yes. >> Council member Bodner, >> yes. >> Council member Baldwin, >> yes. >> And Mayor Mullik is recused.

273
01:25:58.719 --> 01:26:18.800
Okay. All right. So, moving on to mayoral appointments. Mayor, would you like me to outline those those appointments for you or would you like to do that over the phone? No. Could you please? >> Sure. Nope. It's fine. All right. So,

274
01:26:18.800 --> 01:26:35.440
this was included in council's packet. It was on the website for public uh review. The mayor is appointing um Dr. Rose Trafocanti. She's moving to alternate one for the environmental commission. And Mr. John Becker is being appointed to the alternate two position.

275
01:26:35.440 --> 01:26:51.199
For the Shade Tree Commission, uh Miss Kathy Drake is moving from the alternate position to become a regular member. and Miss Anita Noino is being um appointed to a regular member position and Miss Melissa Robinson is being appointed to alternate one. There is still a vacancy

276
01:26:51.199 --> 01:27:08.000
in alternate 2 if anybody is wanting to serve on the Shai tree commission and is a resident of the city of Cape May. And those are the mayoral appointments uh for this evening. >> New business. >> New business. >> City solicitor.

277
01:27:08.000 --> 01:27:26.239
>> I just uh wanted to give council a brief update. I think this has been in the news, but the NJ D real pact rules have >> Mr. Gill Schwarz. >> Thank you. >> I will now scream this into the microphone. The um NJ D real pact rules

278
01:27:26.239 --> 01:27:42.159
which have been in the news. The the state has promulgated a rule to extend those. So, it was supposed to be implemented July 20th, 2026. They're proposing to extend the implementation of that to July 20th, 2027. So, it's giving some time, I

279
01:27:42.159 --> 01:27:58.960
think, for towns and applicants and breathing room to determine what is going to be the the fate of that, but as it stands now, those are not going to be implemented in the time period we previously thought. So, I think just uh heads up to council and to the public

280
01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:15.440
about that development. >> Yeah. And and what I really think is going to happen is it's it's going to give the legislature some time to possibly intervene. And I think that you're going to see the between the governor's office, the legislature is going to work with uh municipalities and and I think you're going to see a

281
01:28:15.440 --> 01:28:32.080
revision to those rules. So I don't think you necessarily need to plan for those rules. I think you're going to see um a change of those rules happen by the end of the year. >> Mr. Dietrich, any updates? Um, the only thing I would comment on, uh, we did

282
01:28:32.080 --> 01:28:48.400
start up the, uh, extending the Jity service into West Cape May. Um, though not all the Jity drivers got the memo. So, it's a it's a work in progress. We're working with them. Uh but just as a reminder, if you are heading over to this, this little plug for Westcape May,

283
01:28:48.400 --> 01:29:04.239
if you're heading over to the Strawberry Festival, we're kind of extending some hours of the Jity so that you know, you can kind of pick the Jitney up and and head over there to the Strawberry Festival from Kate May if you're looking to get over there without having to take your car over and park. Um be looking

284
01:29:04.239 --> 01:29:20.639
for the the Jitney and uh it will be running a little bit earlier so you can get over to the Strawberry Festival. Okay, >> great. City Clerk, >> just a reminder, the primary election is tomorrow. Polls are open 6:00 am to 8:00 PM, so get out and vote. Okay.

285
01:29:20.639 --> 01:29:38.000
>> Thank you, council. City council, Councilwoman Baldwin. >> Just a couple things. Um, a couple of months ago, uh, council uh wanted uh Mr. Council Member Meyer and myself to work on this signage task force. And just to

286
01:29:38.000 --> 01:29:52.800
give you an update of where we stand at this point. We've had quite a few meetings. Um we've been over to uh DPW to take a look at um their setup there and what is possible, what is not

287
01:29:52.800 --> 01:30:08.639
possible. Um we've taken a look at a lot of different signs in the city of Kate May that the city actually produces whether it's street signs, park mobile signs. Um and Shane, you can you can chime in any, you know, anytime. um and

288
01:30:08.639 --> 01:30:24.480
uh you know the the posts, the poles, the the color of them. So there's a lot of things that are really cons being considered um in this ordinance. Um we're probably looking at a draft resolution. I know Mr. Gillan Schwarz

289
01:30:24.480 --> 01:30:40.560
has provided us a um kind of a draft resolution, but we were looking at making some minor amendments here and there, and it'll come back onto your desk soon. Um, but I just really wanted to um, you know, let let you know where we are with that and we should have um,

290
01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:55.280
something ready for council to at least review uh, probably within the next month or two. >> Thank you. >> Um, and I Yeah, we have our meeting tonight because of the primary tomorrow and uh,

291
01:30:55.280 --> 01:31:12.880
Mayor Mullik um, good luck. >> Councilman Bodner, >> nothing tonight. Thank you. >> Okay, thank you. Councilman Meyer. >> Uh thank you. Among other things like uh uh uh Council Member Baldwin said that looking at the colors, styles of the

292
01:31:12.880 --> 01:31:31.040
signs, fonts, um is a and we have some members that are uh representative of the fund for Kate May. So this is a public private partnership. Um and one of the things that we've already accomplished and I mean one of the goals

293
01:31:31.040 --> 01:31:47.280
of this committee is to or task force is to reduce the number of signs that are not necessary. We've already reduced a lot of signs in town and it's it's about beautifying the town. I think it's been a lot of success so far and we've already had some uh some things that

294
01:31:47.280 --> 01:32:03.920
we've changed. Just to jump onto that, uh, public works has removed over 100 signs along Beach Avenue alone as part of this the work on that. So, it's really made an effort in reducing sign pollution. >> Yes, >> maybe that's what you could tag. Yeah.

295
01:32:03.920 --> 01:32:24.080
Visual decluttering decluttering project. >> Great. >> Um, you know, something that's going to be very appealing as well. >> Good. I just like to give a big shout out for Lorraine because she has done some of the designing herself. You know, we're not going to see these bright

296
01:32:24.080 --> 01:32:41.600
green park mobile signs. It's going to be something that's more fitting to this, you know, historic uh >> um classic nature of Kate May. And I think she's done a great job. >> Great. >> Nothing for me. >> Oh, I just want to say one more thing. Congratulations to Zach Mollik for doing

297
01:32:41.600 --> 01:32:57.199
having such a great positive campaign and I wish him good luck. I think we all do here. We all do. Yes. Um, anyone from the public wishing to speak on any and all? Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Mayor

298
01:32:57.199 --> 01:33:18.920
Mollik, my apologies. >> Mayor, do you have any comments this evening before we go to the public? >> I might take that as a no, Deputy Mayor. We'll see if he comes back. Anyone from the public wishing to speak?

299
01:33:19.120 --> 01:33:34.080
>> Martin Van Walsson, 329 Congress Street. Um, with the uh extension of the real rules, has any guidance been given to or to planning or zoning board about how to treat projects while we're in this limbo

300
01:33:34.080 --> 01:33:53.199
period? Well, I know at least one project was discussed at zoning that um the developer was saying, "I I need permission to build it higher because I'm going to have to make it higher." >> I mean, my recommendation to board is the the reason why you would make an application before the rules are in

301
01:33:53.199 --> 01:34:09.520
effect or to build under the current rules. If you're going to build under the future rules, you wait until the effective time period. So my guidance to the board would be, you know, you design for the current rules and ordinances. If if you want to go beyond that, then

302
01:34:09.520 --> 01:34:25.199
that's an a variance request if it's going to require a variance. >> That's how I would approach it as well. I But that wasn't the conversation that was had in contemplation of the rule being effective. The developer was pretty much saying, "Look, I'm going to have to abide by it by the time this project's done." And I honestly I do not

303
01:34:25.199 --> 01:34:41.600
recall the outcome, but I'm wondering if maybe it would be a good idea to reiterate to them, follow the current rule because we are anticipating it could potentially be resolve uh uh revised. Okay, >> thanks. And um from the public also, good luck to Mayor Mullik tomorrow.

304
01:34:41.600 --> 01:34:56.639
>> Anyone else? Seeing none, motion to adjourn. Thank you very Time is 5:00 p.m. >> Thank you, Emily, for your help. >> Oh, I'm sorry.

305
01:34:56.639 --> 01:35:17.440
>> Thank you. Wait a minute. Um, we will >> we will be going into a close session. Um, >> resolution. >> Council adopted resolution 22906 2026 authorizing um a meeting not open to the public. So, we'll be um adjourning into

306
01:35:17.440 --> 01:36:09.320
the close session at this time. We anticipate any action Mr. Gillan Shores? >> I don't think we anticipate any formal action coming. >> Just so anyone from the public saying okay thank you very much everyone. >> I'm in close session is 501 >> 501 Interesting

307
01:36:15.679 --> 01:45:35.840
to That's why I want to talk to you about the tree. I think our position They're shame. All You ready? >> Okay. We're coming out of close session.

308
01:45:35.840 --> 01:45:47.760
It is 510 with no official action taken. No action taken. Motion to ajouring. Councel >> motion. >> Second. Thank you. - 5