family plan. >> Okay, it's uh 2:59 on April 9th. Um I'd like to get the meeting started. We have a little bit of a time constraint uh to to to start with. So, let's take the pledge of allegiance and then we'll get right into it.
Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you.
>> Um, as always, please remember to turn on your mics when you're speaking. Um, I continue to be frustrated by certain committees and commissions where that doesn't happen. And as since I listen only to the audio, I have no idea what's
being said. Um I I'm going to defer the city council liaison for a few moments. Uh Ron has another commitment to take care of. So uh we only get him for a half hour and I wanted to make sure that he could participate fully in the conversation about the strategic review
of parking fees. So let's go into that. Uh I'm not going to really take us through the slides. I I kind of preface that um we have some sensitivities to consider, but um I I I will say that um what I've tried to do here working with
the subcommittee is to make sure that we and then in turn uh when this does become a public presentation u the the public has the opportunity to have context. So the the historical perspective on page three is intended to do that to demonstrate that we haven't
made any changes in five to seven years. Um and to talk about the reasons why changes were done and whether we agree with those changes or not that's what has happened in the past. Um
I I think it's also very important from uh Job had recommended I read a book um called Pave Paradise and it was very enlightening and it actually was goes into deeper than just philosophies about parking. It goes into how density of
houses is affected by the requirement that there be parking. that we actually pay more for parking than we do for homes um in terms of the way that land is is developed. Uh it's pretty interesting. I listened to it in the car. Um it was entertaining. Uh what I
learned from that is um and it's interesting I also learned that Jules Roush's father was worked in the parking meter business when it first started. And he has also made this same point, the one on page four, that the reason that we instit
that parking meters were instituted was to turn spots over in business districts, specifically Oklahoma City of all places. That's where the first parking meter was. And um we we definitely recognize that revenue has become a large component of it. Uh but
that revenue component and the free versus metered parking debate has been complicated by the fact that the number of cars per family has I think tripled in the last 50 years. Okay. So we we we
don't have one car families anymore the way that many of us may have had growing up. Okay. Um and then adding in the fact that the that when rental properties are occupied, it can tend to be more than one family. So now you've got two cars
for each family times two or three families. That's four to six cars for a single family home that may not have probably doesn't have the off- streetet parking to be able to to handle that. Um, so I I I think you know that the summary being we can't really just look
at this from a revenue perspective. Revenue is important, but it's it's also important to understand that we stay true to the intent of turning spots over. Um what's included on page five probably isn't isn't a surprise to anyone that's
fairly close to it, but I did feel as if it was important to uh to present it. And um it it does form the basis for a couple of the conclusions that the subcommittee and I arrived at. Um we we currently have when you look at the map that um is included in the city's
website and in the additional materials, roughly a quarter of the streets I would say are currently metered. There definitely is future opportunity, but that's not the purpose of this study. Um, page six, I think, is the heart of the presentation, which is this is side
by side what's in the additional materials that shows what the practices are in the different townships, municipalities. Um, they are very different. There's no commonality. Um we can see that uh that the rates in the
Wildwoods or at least City of Wildwood and North Wildwood are significantly out in front of the rest of the market. Okay. And significantly out in front of where we are. Um I use this information to develop an average of $2.58 per hour and a median
of $1.75. It's it it's interesting that the parking rates are so high they're when they claim the beaches are free. You got to believe me, people are paying more for the beaches there than they are
>> um here with parking. >> There's also a a local tax >> and local >> that the city gets to keep and you know so sure the beaches are free but um >> there is no free >> there is no free >> there is no free Um a a key observation
to support one of the recommendations is um business owners should not be opposed to performance pricing as they were in 2019. They should be in favor of performance pricing. um it helps to turn spots over and um I think it's important
that uh that we make sure that that objective is being um solved. Um we in earlier conversation today, you know, we hypothesized there probably are people that are parking near the mall that are going to the beach
and staying for six or seven hours >> even north of the mall. >> Sure. >> Even north of the mall. What I'm saying is where the performance pricing is there are beachgoers >> and that's not what we want parking around the mall. We want those spots to be there. Um there is by ordinance uh a
three-hour limit. Um my understanding is it's not being enforced and that will be one of the recommendations. Maybe we make it four hours. But >> well and I guess my my question on the performance pricing is do people even know? I mean, I have to claim ignorance, but I I never know what the rate is
until I log into the thing and it says here's how much you owe. >> You you you've been here longer than I have. Do you feel or or Bob, how about you? Do you think that people know what the rates are when they >> No, >> they don't care. >> I'm sorry. And yeah, and I I would agree with Bob. I mean, I I I think that
>> I go into town and, you know, I don't pay attention from >> honestly from one year to the next. I I do the same thing and you know it comes up and it 675 or it's you know 522 or whatever it is and you know my credit cards linked to it like everyone else
and I'm not paying that close attention. >> Um my view has always been and I've shared this with Martin is people park the closest to where they want to be. I don't drive around looking for parking because it's outside of that zone because it might be a dollar cheaper.
Um, you know, I I think we're all sort of um would say the same thing. And even if I go to another town, I don't drive around looking for parking that's a dollar or$2 dollars or three dollars cheaper. I pull into the closest place to the closest place I want to be. I think it's just the nature of, you know,
>> do we I mean, again, I apologize for my ignorance, but do we even have signs that even say I mean is >> could we even find what the rate was if we wanted to other than going on the web? >> It is posted. So the so what Paul was just sharing is that the the prices are posted near the mall by the kiosks.
>> Are there signs near the >> general sign >> general signs? >> So so m so if someone were to see that sign they could make a decision to park versus >> or go and get back in their car and then drive around and look for something else is I would say unlikely. >> I think they would know when we use when
we use quarters exclusively. Yeah. >> Okay. I think they would know, oh wow, I'm putting a lot more quarters in the meter for this parking spot than I'm used to. Yeah, >> I do think that there are budget conscious >> that wasn't the problem. It was getting the quarters to put into the meters. >> That was
>> Yeah, Marina, the only >> the only comment I'd make is that I do think that maybe Martin, you were starting it with this, but there are budget conscious folks. We know there are people are looking for free parking. I mean, it's all over. So, you may not be looking, >> but I think others do. I think that with
that um to be honest with you, Russ, they're fewer in a percentage versus people who want to park closest to where they're going. Some will um and park maybe a couple of blocks further out or, you know, especially beachgoers might,
you know, be willing to walk five or six blocks. Um they do the drop offs at the beach, uh you know, and then they, you know, um go and find a parking spot and and maybe they don't care. Um but I don't think certainly when you get into the business area. >> Yeah. I think it's less in the business
area. I agree with >> Yeah. Um and because you can just see what people are, you know, are circling and saying and willing to do versus, you know, I mean, look, we have the the shuttle service that's offered. People don't have to drive down in here. And you know, we could certainly see an
improvement on that utilization, but people want to have their cars and they want to be close to, you know, where they're going for dinner or shopping or an event. So, >> it's a separate discussion, Marine, but I still think the shuttle service is not as well
>> um use utilized, if you will, because I don't think people are comfortable depending on it in the same fashion. >> Well, the app is the app and so >> I understand. I'm just I'm giving you my perspective. Oh, no, no, no. I I fully I I I can't disagree with you. I mean, you know, I I've mentioned this before and I
won't take any more time, but you know, I when I've traveled to Florida, there's, you know, Anamarie Island has a free shuttle. You have to be patient for it sometimes. You know, you can go out there and it's going to say it's 22 minutes late, but if you don't want to get in your car and drive and then try
and find parking, you're not >> also not a solution for the beach parkers because it's not available. It's not run during the hours when parking is somewhat alleviated >> and beach parkers are carrying more stuff. Um, I did want to say I actually think you're both right, which is that there's the binary parker, the person
who's looking willing to pay a meter or wants to walk three or four blocks cuz it's not metered. And then there's the spectrum parker who says, "Well, I'm paying a meter anyway. I don't really know what's going to cost. It's going to go to my credit card." Um, so it is a question for consideration if there's a recommendation about the pricing because
maybe there's no distinction in utilization based on price whether you're parked along the beach or parked in the business area. >> Do we have data from Park Mobile that says like what percentage pay via coins or using the app?
>> Yeah, we do. >> That's been a discussion because obviously as we've taken away different areas with meters, you know, there's always been a complaint, oh, I got to use the meters or I want to use meters. Um right now last year meter coins were
about 4% of the total revenue and and in the last 3 to four years I'll say postcoid it has been a steady decline in the um now granted we've been pulling more meters off so it it's a self-fulfilling prophecy to some degree
that you know as we take meters away there's less opportunity to do it but um it's definitely been less and And our kiosks are probably only about five there again
5 8% of the total. So you know by far and large Park mobile you know paying through the app is is really where the lion share of the dollars but that has we've seen that steadily increase over the last three four years. And and do we
know how much uh what our cost is to service and collect quarters and all all those things versus the revenue that is collected from that? >> It is it is much more cost effective for the city to use Park Mobile. >> Um because I'm wondering at one point it
becomes even more just a money losing proposition I guess. >> Well it is because I have to have when I go around I have to have two people in tandem kind of working that area just for >> security >> security. lost control that you're not, you know, one meter for me, one meter
for the city kind of a thing. Um, and you know, maintenance of the meters and and just the the whole of of that issue. And then it's even becoming more hard. Our the bank is we're on the verge of having to
the local banks don't accept the coins to process the coins. So, we don't get the immediate deposit. they have to ship them out in bulk to get them counted in, you know, and I'm sure people see that nowadays. You know, it's hard to take a
bulk, you know, if you got, you know, if you've collected coins at home and you got your little bucket of coins to take it into the bank, there's not a lot of the banks now that will accept bulk loose coins >> and and process them >> or they charge you a processing fee. I
mean unfortunately they don't charge us but it is becoming increasingly difficult. It is labor intensive. It is you know cumbersome and at this point we're also having trouble. The meters are so old we can't fix them or even
adjust the rates on them. >> Having spent a good amount of time on other municipalities websites. It's incredible to me that they don't actually publish their parking rates on their websites or practices. It's it's but they have full-blown explanations on
how to use Park Mobile. Um I've also seen data that shows that the num percentage of people that have smartphones is gradually increasing but it's not at 100%. And the largest segment of the population that doesn't have a smartphone is
seniors. >> Well, that's obvious. Okay. So that's where the tech phobia is still a part of it. Um and and we the subcommittee understands that that's a part of the equation. But we also have to recognize
that there are significant limitations to what the city can even do with a coin operated meter because you can't have each quarter be worth $8 eight minutes and 32 seconds. But I but I will say to to combat or to
assist in that, the city over the last two years has added where initially we only had I'll say two kiosks areas to be able to pay. We now have 12 and we're anticipating trying to add an additional four this year. So um where we're taking
out coin operated especially on Beach Avenue, you know you know we're putting them there. We have them around the mall over at the Jackson Street lot. So, we realize that that is a concern for the residents and the visitors that come here that there are some people that have concerns with the app and you know,
so we're trying to put kiosk out, you know, to to allow that payment by credit card and not have to have that. >> And you said that that's about 5% now. >> Yes. Yeah. I I anticipate that n number could probably grow with with the kiosk as we increase the kiosk. I think we'll
might see that tally increase. O other observations included the fact that the performance pricing um gap narrowed in 2020. It was originally double $1 versus $2 and then the next year during COVID the city did raise the
rates to $150 because of the revenue loss from COVID. Um so now I don't know that it's really meets the definition of performance pricing anymore. It's just slightly more expensive. Um and then finally um there we've noted through social media
the significant amount of confusion that is in the current process particularly around the fall and early winter time period. Do I need to pay for a meter here? I got a ticket. I didn't realize I had to pay etc. So that kind of feeds into the recommendations. But the
conclusion on this page seven that based upon the current positioning the subcommittee is suggesting that we are that that an increase in the fees would be appropriate. Um Job and I love this quote. Uh we expect parking to be immediately available directly in front of our
destination and most importantly free. Uh it would be unimaginable to hold any other good or service to the same standard. Parking is an incredible topic. It's extremely divisive. Um far in excess of what it should be. Um
people have been killed over parking spaces. Uh there have been, you know, tremend the the the the vitriol that that comes out everywhere, not just Cape May. This is not a Cape May issue, okay? It it's it the the amount of opposition
that comes out from even even small changes to parking practices far outweighs the impact of the practices themselves. We can expect that to happen here, but that's not a Cape May phenomenon. Every densely populated
place has a parking problem. Every place has a parking problem. more severe than here. Probably in some cases, less in others, but for a certainly for a municipality this small, the magnitude of the parking problem, it's on
everyone's minds. Um, I did a little bit of math and honestly, even a small amount of turnover, even if only 10% of the metered spots turn over once more per day, that's mathematically equivalent to adding five more 5% more parking spots.
We don't expect the beach spots to turn over more than once per day. Um, some towns do. They they only allow you to park there two to four hours. So, they are trying to get those spots to turn over or get you to reup your meter. But, um, yeah, I guess I lost a little bit of
logic there. If >> if someone moves from spot A to spot B, it's it's definitely twice the turnover, but it's no I mean, you're saying if they if they leave town basically, then that's that's how you get the spots. >> I got it. >> Right. That's not likely to happen with
the beach parking, but it can happen in the downtown area >> again if we start to enforce the three-hour limit. >> That means chalking the tires and a whole bunch of different things. And you know, we that's not that's well beyond the operational concerns of this are not
>> within Amtrak's purview. >> Okay. So the the subcommittee exchanged quite a bit of information on what the recommendation >> I thought it was great. That was like very congratulations to you for leading that because it was a really interesting
exchange of ideas. >> Thanks. Um I I think that that's hopefully the model that we'll always follow that everything is collaborative. This isn't Martin's report. This is Mra's report. But um we we did
eventually land on um an an increase in the general parking rates. Um we've suggested $1.75 to >> I broke my own rule. >> I was going to say >> um >> you're just making a recommendation. >> Yes, we we we've we've we're making some suggestions here. Um but how to
operationalize it, I think we have to still consider, especially with respect to the coin meters. I I don't think that um I couldn't really in my mind justify having either a premium or a discount between a coin meter and an and a park mobile meter. So we you know should
probably be the same. >> Well, you would think you would think if we use money as a driver uh if people are coin operated then we would want to use the money uh the rate to drive the behavior that we're looking for. >> Well, and I think as Paul mentioned um the challenges there are that much of
this equipment is very old. >> Yeah. um there's a key that has to be acquired to be able to open them up and change the rates and we're not able to do that. So, we're sort of self-defeating in this by continuing to have them which is why we've been encouraging and having internal
discussions about trying to um up the number of kiosks to provide you know another option for people who are reluctant to have or don't have a smartphone for an app. but that the meters are really no longer um should not be considered a good option and we need to start sunsetting them sooner
rather than later um for all of the reasons Paul mentioned. I mean they used to represent close to >> um almost 20% of our revenue and think about the amount of coinage that would be um and so the fact that it's down to 4% and we've been able to affectuate
that you know over the course of the last five years is really good. And while you know we know that there are people who are not comfortable with the app, the kiosk has to be an option for them. There are many towns that don't even offer anything other than park
mobile. Um and so it really does not do us um you know it becomes cost prohibitive for us to continue >> expensive. We they are not without their $12,000. >> Yeah, exactly. >> But if we compare the cost to running as Paul said to run to run >> they're not that much anymore. they were
in the beginning 8,000. >> Yeah. So that's a that's an upfront cost that it's a takes a lot of >> I understand >> right >> but we want to be able to offer the option because of the the the feedback. >> I do think the kiosk is a is a good option for now to >> Yep. >> But I would agree with you Marine that
coin operated you I I go to a lot of towns and I can tell you I hardly ever ever ever see a coin operated meter anymore and everybody has a some kind of credit card. Well, and I I I think we've we've been able to see that these things don't really work sometimes. Number one.
Number two, you can't even see through the glass. And it's not as if there's replacement parts. They're more of, you know, something, you know, as an antique versus >> conquer Massachusetts just took the meters out completely. It's no longer you no longer pay for parking. It wasn't worth the hassle. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. And I this >> this is again uh we are changing the way we operate the entire city based on less than 1% of the population which is actually a lot of visitors. I mean
that's definition of crazy that you know got to be out of the business. And and I I just want to understand the the model you're again you're suggesting the recommendation of the committee I guess is $1.75 in some instances and $2 in another. >> No. >> Oh, nope. >> That's not
>> no. We're not talking pricing here. >> I apologize. >> That's okay. >> Um so the committee is suggesting that that the fees across the board do increase because they've been static for so long. I understand. >> And also based upon looking at the competitive information y Okay. where we had the $2 and 58 average and the median
of $1.75. We are below both of those. Okay. Got it. >> Um we we are not suggesting that meters um be increased by by inflation at this stage >> because you can't do that with a coin meter. Okay. But once once coin meters are taken out, just like every other
recommendation that MRAX makes, we would like it to see it be indexed to inflation in some way bianually or however it winds up happening. Um we also are uh we are suggesting with the committee's concurrence that we then reestablish the pre the premium for
performance pricing so that it is differentiated economically from um the other spots to drive a behavior of if you would like to park in a premiumbric spot for a longer period of time that's
your right but you do need to pay the premium. Um, and then we've talked about simplifying this the process. Um, honestly it probably won't matter in most of the town outside of the business district, but having the entire city be
December 31st just makes it a lot less confusing. The meters are on until December 31st because Cape May is different from every other beach town. We have a much more robust fall than other beach towns. And then we have the holiday season, which heck, even Easter
was crazy this year, my understanding. Traffic coming into the city for Easter. Valentine's Day. I've never seen the city as full as it was. Even in July, at least the restaurant that Deb and I had our dinner in was packed with people that didn't realize they
>> We have to somehow get to all the publications, magazines, websites, etc., and tell them they're no longer allowed to say Cape May is the greatest place to go. because it seems like every week there's another one. >> Well, it was just this morning again. >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> But the the the you know the reality is that costs are not staying the same. We can't raise the rates every year, but costs go up. The the labor costs go up on a on a fully loaded basis 6% probably. >> Yeah. >> Conservatively with healthcare. Okay. Um
that that includes the enforcement costs. um it's becoming more and more difficult to attract seasonal um um police officers and um class class ones which I think a lot of these are. Um so naturally if we want to attract people
from well from other towns we have to offer a premium so >> and the rates haven't changed in seven years. Seven years. Yes. >> I I do have a question. Is there meter enforcement at I mean I guess there isn't. The the city would have to hire someone to conduct that enforcement longer into the year than it currently
does. >> Well, but they so we do have them because they're enforcing it at the mall. It's a matter of the >> adding adding >> the decision that the city administration would need to make about how far around the mall are they uh do they
have the staff to be able to do the enforcement. And then um for whatever reason, just probably historical, this part of town is six o'clock, that part of town is 5:00. The committee subcommittee toyed with just making it 10 o'clock everywhere. And it
has no practical effect to make it 10:00 on the further ends of the town. So we're simply suggesting that it be six o'clock outside of the business district, stay 10 o'clock inside. So at least there's one less exception. Uh, we've talked about the coin operated
meters and um I think that I'm I'm going to pull the parking utility point. Um, it's a spill over from another um study that I'm working on on the budget caps. Um, probably doesn't isn't appropriate to be
here. Okay. It's um I I had a subcommittee member ask me why it was even there and I I did admit that it was selfish on my part. I'm taking it out. Um and then um we had suggested that we uh that there many of the suggestions
that the subcommittee members came up with um I pointed out were really policy not practice. And if there had been a parking advisory committee still, that would be the right place for those to be coming out of. Um, and perhaps if the
parking advisory committee had actually focused on policy, um, we'd still have one. Um, but we don't. We've suggested here that, um, that it be reinstated. The planning committee, planning board also has a subcommittee that's dealing with parking. So, that's another avenue that that could be done. And then we
talked about commissioning a study and uh did you want to make the point about the study or >> um I think at this point in time there hasn't been any um decision by council to undertake a study. We certainly don't have it in the budget for this year. Um
and uh given the number of other uh projects that are that are currently underway including the police station uh the prominade Lafayette Street park on coming online the seaw wall and del it's just um I I think in the list of priorities right now it's um you know um
has not gotten to that list. So uh it may be something that we want to take a look at for sometime in the next two years. Um it needs to be very comprehensive. Uh as a member of the planning board, this was discussed. I think that if you're going to do this, you need to undertake it in a way that
has all constituents in quot included. Uh and that could be quite comprehensive. And then at the end of the day, um what is the problem that we're trying to solve? Um and you know, uh sometimes I used to say in healthcare, you hire a consultant to tell you what you already know. Um, and
so, you know, there there are options and alternatives and, um, they would be both of them would be quite daunting to do. Uh, I'm not going to name them now. I'm sure you're all um, smart enough to figure out what those two might be. Um, but again, it those have uh,
implications. Um, and so at this point in time, there's just u we're not going to undertake it. Not to say it's not going to be done, but it's just not in the list of things that's happening for this year. >> Yeah. Yeah, and Marine, I I understand where where you're coming from. The only thing I would suggest is that um that I
do think that we've that I hope the city at some point stands back on this a little bit. Yes, we know that we have a parking problem. I get it. But we don't have a lot of facts. Quite honestly, we don't even use the Park Mobile data very well. It
doesn't seem in terms of understanding turnover, looking at the bridge traffic that's coming in, all the kinds of things that really should be done. Where do people park? Why do they park there? Uh and and yes, I mean eventually, at least from my perspective, and I don't know if others agree, I'd like to see
less cars on this island, not more >> less. And how do we get to that point? Uh right, Michael, >> I'm with you Paul shaking his head. >> You're saying yes or no? >> I think we do understand the data that comes out of Park Mobile for as someone
who's looked at that. I you know, not necessarily. It's not something that, you know, >> so we know all the turnover. We know >> I I won't say specifically we know all the turnover, but turnover happens differently in different areas. >> Well, sure. That's exactly the point. It happens differently in different areas, right? >> But we certainly know I mean all of us
that experience trying to get over the bridge at at 4 to 5:00 in in the afternoon after a beach. uh you know >> so I it just seems like a park a park a parking study could help stand back and and look at things holistically
particularly if you're considering making significant changes as it relates to you know >> yeah I won't disagree with you Russ I I just for right now >> I I get it I'm just I'm just saying I >> the cars coming over the bridge could be an entirely different study
>> yeah that's that's a different scenario plus you have to look at study. >> Well, the cars the cars coming over the bridge help pay for, you know, they pay they help pay for parking, they support our beaches, they support our merchants. So, you know, without them, you know,
there's a there is a balance there. And and I understand that, but but a true parking study is not going to give you the the holistic answer of >> I I didn't say less people coming on the island, cars. >> I want to be I want to be very clear for those of you taking notes. This is more
people, less cars. That's what I'm suggesting. >> Unfortunately, the reliance on cars and and no other public transportation that is either available or readily accessible to us here in in K County, I
think, makes that very question very difficult. It's not like we're in a urban area like Philadelphia where they have mass transit and and a robust transit >> right >> system. We don't have that. people relying on their cars.
>> Wouldn't there as an example be an opportunity to uh which I think we put in the here to look at employees coming in that we could provide some perhaps off island opportunities for employees to actually get on the island uh since they have regular hours. I'm not saying
what the answer is Paul. I'm just suggesting that maybe >> but when you but but when you when you just open it up with saying less cars on an island, you got to be more you got to be real specific in that discussion because one could perceive that as like hey I don't want >> I I just clarified.
>> Yep. That's perfect. Yep. I just wanted and that's the reason why I stepped up just to clarify that that >> I apologize. >> Yeah, no worries. >> I like the people. >> Yes. It's it's all part of it's all part of what makes that collective in what we do. So I I think that the message coming away from this is um the parking
committee that the the the planning board is already making the same suggestion and um it's not really within the >> it's not our charge >> remitt. Yes, it's not our charge. So let's pull the point but with the
understanding that as you said Moren that there will be representation of all constituencies when we get to that stage I would want MTRA to be involved because the paying for it is within our agreement. So whatever solutions we
might that might be considered and so we have a point of view on what information is necessary including how many people are coming across and leaving the bridges at different >> and that's why I do think it it is not directly our charge but if we recommend increases we would want to know what
turnover is or the number of cars coming over. Um, I do want to just say that I think these recommendations, if we keep them both in, are separate, right? I think that the city should move forward with increases. I think we all deem that appropriate even with our own eyes
without the data. And also for future recommendations, it would be helpful to have more data. And to Moren's point, like, oh, that's a traffic study. Yeah, maybe the recommendation is that the there's a parking study or maybe it's part of a much larger study about mobility and how people get to, through,
and from the island at all times of year. >> And I still wanted to see the study, the analysis of what is the capacity of this island because if people think that we are not close to the capacity,
they're not living here. They don't live here. So, uh, it would be great for that to be phase two or whatever. >> I I think we have I think we have agreement that there's that that the parking meter fees is not the
only topic that requires conversation. Um, that is the topic that is being discussed now along with some other changes to I think help alleviate some known issues. Yeah. >> And and so that's where the recommendations will center on is is
what was included in in in here. if everyone's comfortable with that. Hearing no objections, I'll skinny this down for a a little bit based upon the feedback that I've received and then um we'll we'll move it forward. Um I believe it's on going to be on the agenda for the 21st. And
>> we we have a spot um earmarked for that. Um it will be a presentation right at the beginning of the council meeting in the normal you know sort of 5 to 10 minute uh time frame and uh share all materials with council and the mayor in advance.
>> So I'm I'm sorry I I'm a little cloudy fuzzy I forget what this was all generated by council. >> Yes. >> So there was a request um as we were preparing the budget for this year. Um
this was a balance against uh tax increase and how much Mike versus um looking at parking fees because they had not been increased in the past uh seven years and as this committee has done with other areas taking a look at beach
fees and you know beach concessions and all of those other thing development fees and etc. uh we felt it was an opportunity for us to take a look uh at what we could and um understanding what generate what revenue could be generated to uh
temper down a potential increase beyond what we did from the uh taxes. >> So, >> and where the subcommittee kind of turned that a little bit was to say it's really not just about the revenue. The objective really is to make it more visitor friendly by turning over spots
more often and >> less confusing >> less confusing. Um that therein does lead to um additional revenue to be able to I think each cent is 300,000. >> Yeah. >> So if if we if we if this if the change
is netted out to a $300,000 revenue increase, it's offsetting a penny of taxes. But and but the the turnover increased turnover also increases the number of cars in town >> could potentially longer term increase the number of cars in town. Absolutely.
As I mean everybody should be aware that >> word gets around. Hey generating easier to park in Cape May these days because the turn the spots are turning over. >> Yeah. Right. >> But it could also reduce the amount of congestion for people driving around looking for a spot. >> It it could and it's good. I mean that
is good for the merchants which is one of the I for me it's one of the main reasons to get the turnover um that's good for them but it will increase the number of cars in this town could >> and it may be that I'm sorry Russ and it may be making these changes now in
advance of a parking study or a traffic study is gives us more opportunity to take a look at things and have a broader understanding of what these imp what making these changes what's the implic applications. Doing it afterwards after having done a study would, you know, you
might kind of shoot yourself in the foot a little bit. So, this gives you an opportunity to take a look at things in a different way. >> Some of these Was there money in the budget for traffic? >> No, sir. >> Hey, Joe, I I just I just wanted to if I could just to maybe close this uh Martin
is is I agree first of all that it it's not just it wouldn't be just a parking study. It's a it's piece of a broader study. Secondly, I I want to re-emphasize uh Martin that I thought you did a a great job in a with a very difficult topic trying to get different
viewpoints and work through the process. So, you should be congratulated for the work that you did. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. I mean, I I learned a lot. I re relied upon a lot of the skills that I used in my career. But, um it's important that everything
that we do, I I want to hear from you. I want to hear from you, okay? I want to hear other people's opinions because I'm not the smartest person in the room. I and I need to be able to get those those opinions. And you know, I I think that
Job and Russ were very patient and as we worked through the process um because they had a lot of really great ideas, but they were more about policy than they were about practice >> and how it impacts revenue. Well, and you know, and I'm even recalling that
when little history um I was actually I had actually applied to be on the parking committee and um I was at a city council meeting and Job was being approved to be on the parking committee and I wasn't and the mayor said, "What
happened with Martin?" And um Stacy said, "Oh, he's better for MTRA." And it it had never been discussed with me at the time whether I was interested on being on MTRA. So Job took my place on the parking committee and I remember his
his I think first meeting. Um Job knows a lot about this stuff from Mold City. He he has a great depth of knowledge about this issue and he brought point after point after point and every one of them was rejected. Every single one of them. And then he sent me eight points
and I think I rejected five of them out of hand. And I said I'm doing the same thing the parking committee did. So let me loop back and make sure that My batting average is a lot higher here. I do just want to add Pave Paradise is available for my recollection at the library around the corner. So, >> there's only one copy though, so
>> it's also on audio book. I listen to it and it's on Pave Paradise. It's a it's a it's a good read. It's a good read. Um, separately, some of these other points that we've been talking about about demand and other things are in the advisory report. Uh, we were asked to
give an an opinion on a very specific proposal and we don't need to get into the specifics. Okay. Um that uh the conclusion of the subcommittee was um not without a parking study honestly um
would be one thing and and second of all um it's it would be a relatively drastic um step and we we requested that the city um consider alternatives before this were done. I've provided you with the draft which the subcommittee has
endorsed. I assume that everybody else else is okay with that draft. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And so I'll present that to uh to to the city manager. Any other questions on parking? This is not the last time we'll talk about it because it's not the last time that we're going to have to be dealing with
the issue. >> All right. Now, I'll go back to the agenda. This the council leazison. I >> I actually don't have anything um to report on. It's been a very busy uh couple of months. Um, as I mentioned, budget uh presentation final is on the
21st. There is a open house that I uh understand Martin, you will be at on the 20th representing MTRA and other committee members. >> Yeah, we'll talk about that under new. >> Oh, I'm I'm so sorry. Um, so it's it's a very busy time. A lot of activities being planned for this year um around
the anniversary celebrations. So um that's it for now for me. >> I I have a question. >> Yes, I was going to say questions to the budget. Maybe Paul or Meen can could respond. Obviously, this uh the the state released uh initial uh school
uh funding for and the city of KMA this year fortunately had a better year than last year for that. Do we have any idea on timing or how the impact is? I know it's out of your hands, but I just didn't just as out of interest as well as the county since really the city's
only a third of or not even a third. It's just a portion of the three-legged stool. >> We do know the county, I think, indicated that there would be a decrease. >> Yeah, county's got a decrease in their county rate. Uh, I have not heard anything out of the school because
obviously they can't finalize their budget until they get their state aid number. So, I have not heard >> Well, the county decrease, however, doesn't necessarily mean a decrease, right? Because they re >> It did last year reassessment. No, the we've not been reassessed. Yeah. >> So they don't take into account the
increasing value of the homes. >> No, not when they do the county taxes. >> I thought I thought the rate was based upon the market value of the homes, not the assessed value. >> No, it's based on the assessed value >> and on the the school on um I do know
that uh I think lower had a big hit on health care costs. So I'm not sure you know about the moving parts on that. Russ, >> yeah, you you've got two different school. You've got the Kate May city elementary portion, but then you have the lower township regional school
district. So the the regional district, I would imagine, is going to go up. I don't think I don't think that their aid was as >> I think they actually had I think had a little bit of an increase in in aid for them. But but I think >> I thought I saw the aid was a million400,000,
>> right? But they but they as Moren said they had a big >> they had like a 21% increase in their healthcare costs. >> They projected for a 36% increase for the state. >> Timing wise when do they need to fin get those finalized for our property taxes?
>> I think early May. >> I mean >> so we should hear something over the next part of summer. >> Well, no. I think you No, within this month they'll probably have some budget numbers released. I I did take note in the in the local press that there will be a meeting in early to mid June on um
consolidation of the elementary schools. >> Yeah, there's there's actually >> June 16th >> June. No, I have hang on a second and I'll Yeah. >> And that's board of education. Yes. So there's there's actually three meetings. >> So if anybody has interest in that, that would be the place to go to hear about
whether but there is a consulting firm that has been engaged to >> opinion on consolidation. So, so there's three meetings. The the first two are public input before the stud is going to be released. So, uh the there will be one on April 20th 6 to 7 at the West
Kate May Elementary School. Uh, and then on April 22nd at the Kate May City Elementary School from 6:00 to 7:00. And then once all that information, I think that's the final bit of information they need to gather. And then on June 11th at 5:00 p.m. at Lower Township Regional
High School is where they'll make the presentation to the to essentially the both districts and all the residents uh on what their recommendations are. Okay. Thanks. >> Um so the other element of old business
we haven't covered yet. Um I we were finally able to the budget process had enveloped um Lauren Reed's time. Um so Paul finally did uh make arrangements for um us to meet on March 23rd. Um the
subcommittee members Mike was unable to attend for health reasons and Ron was still in the warmer clims. So I the next step is for the three of us to meet and I'll share with them what we discussed. It was a very productive meeting. It was a very informative meeting. Um Lauren
has a great deal of experience uh dealing with the budget caps um and the and the calculations themselves. Um I I I had done some mathematics on apparently a set of preliminary numbers that turned out to not be the right numbers. that I can apply the same
analysis to what I think is the right numbers so that we can sort of gain some conclusions. Um the and then that subcommittee will will bring a report out to this committee at some one of the future meetings, the next one or the one after that. So we're finally making
progress again on that. >> Yep. Um, so, uh, I sent an email out about the openhouse on May 20th from 5:00 to 7:00. Um, I sort of laid it out and I have a couple of I have a couple of
PowerPoint slides to do tomorrow. Um, which won't be a problem. I'm good at PowerPoint. But um it has to do with the fact that um the open house will include um
each of the chairpersons or designate in a case or two um to step up and sort of in two minutes explain what their committee or commission does. It's intended to help residents uh mostly residents of the city to understand all
the different tentacles of the city governance process of which we are one. And um then that will be followed by after an introductory uh comments by the mayor and by the city manager um and then each of the chairs
doing their two-minute speech. There will be breakout sessions and people will be free to go from table to table and we we will have MTRA will have a table with no visitors because nobody knows what we do. But um um the the kind
of dicey part is I hope each of you will be there at the meeting. We just can't have more than three people standing in a cluster at any point in time. Okay? Because it is a city meeting. Uh it has been sunshined. no official business can
be discussed. Um, but if four of us get together, that becomes a meeting and therefore, you know, so we kind of have to rotate in and out. If Russ wants to join the conversation, then Sarah's going to have to leave and that that kind of a thing and then, as I mentioned, hopefully those that do
attend, we'll walk across the street maybe to the new cares and get a beverage. >> So, so I'm clear. So, the open house will be basically presentations first by the mayor and by Paul sort of a general >> a general and then a general nothing and you'll present. So everybody will be
there for those presentations. Then you go to your respective corners. >> Yes. >> Tables and and people can mill around and ask questions. >> Our our job is a little easier because I think that I I think it's going to be very difficult for the HPC and the zoning board and the planning board to
not um be asked to address specific issues which they cannot. They can't talk business. Okay. So, we probably won't up won't run up against that, but we'll see. I'm I'm I'm being facitious about it. I >> Well, in some respects though, isn't it
important that we have a sort of a cheat sheet of what you can and can't say if people ask questions? >> I'm just saying. >> So, I'm think I'm you know, I mean, it's kind of hard to anticipate what people are going to ask. for instance, just uh sure you can't what can't you talk about
in a in a when they come to the table? >> Again, for us, I don't think that's I don't think there's a whole lot that's off limits. I think it's more >> Yeah. >> Um >> I think it's more, as Martin is saying, it's more planning, zoning, and HPC >> for city council
>> for city council. But you >> but you can't what you don't want to see is someone saying, "Listen, I'm thinking about putting on an addition. um I understand you know that I have to do this or that. Those kinds of questions cannot be addressed by any member of
those boards. For MTRA I think because sometimes our subjects are broad change and are more dynamic. There's not anything that you would really be >> well you're not you're not there's more to say you're not creating a conflict for yourself at the board. You then if
if as a board member you talked to a potential applicant and told them, hey, you should do this, you then should be then recusing yourself because you had input or you don't want to talk about, hey, you just denied me at the zoning board. Why did
you do that? So those are the discussions that those boards can't get into. So, thinking on my feet, someone could come up to us at table and say, "I watched the presentation you made at the city council meeting about parking fees." What on earth were you thinking?
Okay. Well, that's, you know, that's not a question that we should answer because that's business of the committee. Um or or trying to gain support for the parking study we want to do. So, I I I think um we're we're one of the things I love about this group is
that we're all really smart. So, I I think we can all sort of, you know, think on our feet at at the time. And I think that, you know, I mean, obviously, I'll be the one constant at the table. If I think we're getting into a direction that we shouldn't, I'll just punch you in the arm or nothing.
>> Kick you at the table. I won't be there. >> No, I won't. >> We won't be. Yeah, we we won't be. he is sitting at the the individual tables. So, >> okay. Uh let me let me open it up for anything that's on anyone else's minds.
What's what's uh what's what's floating around in your heads? I guess what's next uh to attack to tackle for the committee that do you see? Well, so the um wrapping up the uh the budget appropriations cap project I think is is
sort of next. Um I think that um what what I'd like to make sure that we all understand is my desire for this process to be collaborative.
Okay. I I I you know that comes with some responsibility that um we are trying to do these subcommittees not because we don't want to include everybody but because we can't but then the subcommittees do have a responsibility and I take that
responsibility very seriously. >> Who takes the minutes at the subcommittee? >> Um so they're so they're they're not published minutes. >> No, but they should go out to the rest of the board. You don't have you don't have a subcommittee meeting without telling the rest of the board what went on.
>> Well, so I think that you know what we've done here is this is what has what was discussed? >> You're not answering my question. >> Sure. So you're >> take some minutes. Do you have minutes? >> We don't have minutes currently. Oh, >> you should. >> Okay. >> I I uh I I'll take that point. >> Okay. Um
I will also say that in terms of planning you know this project this parking project had a very tight timeline and um I you know there was doubt whether we were going to be able to come up with recommendations. What we didn't do was the numbers because there
were just wasn't time to be able to to to do that. But the reason I say that is um each project should have some sense of a of a timeline and we we do need to be sensitive to the different deadlines
that are established so that things can proceed on time. Um trying to do it all in the last couple of days before it needs to get to the right people um can become a little bit burdensome of people's time. So, um, let's understand that, um, that that collaboration is
important. It should be important to each of us. Um, and you have my word that, um, you will each have the opportunity to react to anything that happens in the in the subcommittees. And, you know, I take your I take your point that um, if there is a formal meeting, we'll take minutes.
>> I've never heard of such a thing in municipal. Well, so in in this particular case, um because >> I was on the planning board for many years and we had subcommittee meetings that >> we never actually met. It was all by email and phone. >> Well, you snuck around the edges
out of by necessity. Um so, um you know, I but I do think that it's nothing there's nothing wrong with saying, "Okay, uh Job and I had a had a tone had a phone conversation. Let me let me summarize what that conversation was about." >> Okay. Yep.
There was something that I was going to bring up in in round table and I and it's escaping me now and I won't hold you to try to remember what it is. I'll just save it for next time. Any other thoughts? >> I mean, we we we we sort of went around before you had us go around and sort of
indicate what it was. I was trying to look back at my notes that we wanted to focus on. So maybe for the next meeting we can p pull that out again. I just couldn't find it to be honest with you. >> Yeah. You also you'll notice I haven't been asking people to approve minutes because I haven't gone back and watched
the tapes. So I will do that before the for the next meeting and I have three of them. But um and part of the last meeting was asking people what that what they they were interested in doing. >> All right. Motion for adjournment. >> Second. >> Second. Well, we're adjourned. Thank you
very much. >> Came back just in time. >> I'm I'm sorry. I had a >> Oh, I'm should have asked you if you had any >> No, no, no. I I'm not gonna I didn't know what you talked about for 20 minutes. I didn't want to interrupt it. >> You didn't miss a thing.