Okay, good afternoon everyone. We have a special meeting of the city council of the city of Kate May. We are here in the Cape Bay city hall auditorium. Today is Tuesday, October 21st, 2025. The time is now 400 pm. Please join me for the
pledge of allegiance. >> I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Under the open public meetings law, notice of this meeting was sent to the Kate May County Herald and the press of Atlantic City and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council posted on the city website and city hall bulletin board. Notice is hereby provided that Kate May city council meetings are audio recorded
and or video streamed live. Live video streams are posted to the Kate May city website. The city of Kate May is not responsible if audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable. Roll call. Council member Baldwin >> here. >> Council member Bodner >> here. >> Deputy Mayor McDeade
>> here. Council member Meyer is absent. Mayor Mullik >> here. >> City solister Gillan Schwarz >> here. >> City Manager Dietrich >> here. >> Deputy Manager Riggs >> here. >> Deputy Clerk Turner >> here. >> We have resolution 299-10 2025, a resolution providing for a meeting not
open to the public in accordance with the provisions of the New Jersey Open Public Meetings Act and JSA104-12. This is for the full service water storage tank asset management and maintenance program RFP number 25-13. Shared services agreement with the Bureau of Kick Point for law enforcement
and dispatching services. Discussion on healthcare benefits, the Allen AM Church lease with Eastland Theater Company and the enter Enterprise Fleet Management Lease. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> A second. >> Roll call.
>> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. Council member Bodner. >> Yes. Yes. Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik. >> Yes. >> Public portion. Mayor, >> is anyone here wishing to speak on this uh resolution? Seeing none, we'll close public comment and go into close session.
>> Time is 406. All right. Good evening everyone. We have uh actually we have to close out our uh close session with and there will be some action. Is that correct solicitor? >> We we have a couple of items I think that we're going to go through to add from the closed session.
>> Do I have a motion to adjourn the close session? >> I'll make the motion. >> All in favor? I >> I Okay, with that we'll open up our regular meeting of the city council of the city of Kate May. We are here in the Kate May city hall auditorium. Today is
Tuesday, October 21st, 2025. The time is now 2 uh 5:32. Please join me for the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. >> Under the open public meetings law, notice of this meeting was sent to the Kate Me County Herald and the press of
Atlantic City, and a copy of the agenda was delivered to each member of city council, posted on the city website and city hall bulletin board. Notice is hereby provided that Kate May city council meetings are audio recorded and or video streamed live. Live video streams are posted to the Kate May city website. The city of Kate May is not
responsible if audio recording or live video streaming of a meeting is unavailable. Roll call. Council member Baldwin >> here. >> Council member Bodner >> here. >> Deputy Mayor McDade >> here. Council member Meyer >> here. >> Mayor Mullik >> here. >> City solicitor Gillan Schwarz >> here.
>> City Manager Dietrich >> here. >> Deputy Manager Rigs >> here. Deputy Clerk Turner >> here. >> And council, we have several additions this evening if you'd like for me to go through them. We have resolution 305-102025,
a resolution authorizing an amendment to the lease with Eastland Theater Company regarding the Allen AM Church. 30610 2022. Resolution for award of contract for an extraordinary and specifiable services. This is for Delta Dental. 30710 20225
resolution for award of a contract for extraordinary and specifiable services for Delta Vision. 308102025 resolution for appointment of health benefits consultant Marshia Mlennon agency in a required disclosure manager
manner and 309102025 a resolution authorizing group enrollment for all Medicare eligible retired city employees into Hartford group retirey insurance plan one and into the express scripts Medicare pharmacy drug plan with enrollment facilitated by Benar employer services
trusts if you'd like to make a motion to add that to the regular agenda council. Do I have a motion to add uh resolutions 305 through 309? >> I'll make a motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any questions or comments? >> Roll call.
>> Council member Meyer. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik. >> Yes. >> Okay. On to updates and old business. >> City manager, any updates or old business?
>> Yes. I have a few things. Thank you. Uh, first I'd like to uh let everybody know that we had the pleasure of swearing in a new firefighter that uh replaced a vacant firefighter position that we had and we had firefighter Joel Hatch join the ranks of fireman today. So, it was
great to uh bring a fireman in and kind of f bring our full compliment back up to staff uh over at the firehouse. Um, the other thing is this evening, beginning at 6:00 to 8:00
a.m. Washington Street from Jefferson to the Physics Estate, we'll have intermittent road closures and detours for they're finally coming back to paint the crosswalks along the Washington Street project. So, it's been long
awaited. Um, but they're finally coming and they're going to do it in the evening. So, if you're along that stretch, I'm sorry. There could be a little bit of activity going on, some bright lights at a couple intersections, but uh by tomorrow morning uh before school starts, all the crosswalks will
be out there and ready for everybody to use. And I appreciate everybody's patience this evening and uh patience over the summer while we didn't have them out there. >> Uh the next item is as we've we had a pre-construction meeting for the uh police headquarters building and we're
getting that ready. So, you will see some light work starting out there this week. Uh, so they're possibly on Friday they're going to start putting up some of the construction staging fencing for their area. And we're anticipating that the dog park will be closed beginning
Monday, November 3rd. Uh, we will public works will be posting signs out there in advance of that. And we're anticipating having a groundbreaking on November 13th. That's a Wednesday at 3:30. I know that that's
a different we that's a different date and than what I had initially talked to you, but there were some scheduling changes with some of the other uh people involved in the project. So, we've moved it to that Wednesday instead of Monday. So, it' be Monday uh Wednesday, November 13th at 3:30 groundbreaking for the
police headquarters building. And that's all I had this evening. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you, city manager. City solicitor. >> Nothing tonight, mayor. Thank you, >> city council. Any updates or old business? Okay. On to ordinances for introduction.
City clerk. >> Yes, we have 581-2025, an ordinance amending chapter 7 of the code of the city of Kate May regarding on street parking permits. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion to introduce. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second.
>> Any questions or comments, council? >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. Council member Bodner, >> yes. >> Council member Baldwin, >> yes. >> Mayor Mullik, >> yes. >> 582-2025, an ordinance of the city of Kate May
amending and supplementing chapter 7 vehicles and traffic to regulate the operation of electric bike bicycles and scooters. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any questions or comments, council? >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer.
>> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McNade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. Council member Baldwin, >> yes. >> Mayor Mullik, >> yes. >> 583-2025, an ordinance authorizing an amendment and extension of lease agreement with the New Jersey Transit Corporation for block 1060. Bless you.
>> Lots 4.01 and 4.02, commonly known as the welcome center. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion. Do >> I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Questions or comments? >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade? >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner? >> Yes.
>> Council member Baldwin? Yes. Mayor Mullik. >> Yes. >> And 584-2025, an ordinance amending chapter 525 of the city zoning code to promote workforce and long-term housing opportunities in the C1 zoning district. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion.
>> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any questions or comments? >> I I do have a a question or two. Um I know that this was carving out just the Washington Street Mall area. Um
and just wondering how the discussion occurred at the planning board. So yeah um we after the um this was on for first uh introduction probably about six weeks
ago. Yeah. And so we took it uh to planning board at that time. Um, at that point in time, uh, I recall that you had some concerns about the expansiveness of this in the whole C1 district. We included that in the conversation, but the planning board basically looked at
this and said, you know, uh, for the units that are there. Um, we'd like to encourage workforce housing. Uh, there was no discussion that there was it should only be limited to that. I will say that first of all, there were other this probably occurred over two
meetings. We had discussions around parking which is uh you know something that we felt was important to allow for a parking variance not having to come for an application. Um also removing the caveat for a site plan review um to
encourage that it would still require a construction official to look at the unit and making sure that it was appropriate for um housing. We put criteria around it for the um habitable square foot per individual. Um and that
there would be a notification clause um not just having it as an ordinance, but there would be letters specifically sent to individuals who currently had units that were uh being offered as short-term rentals uh on the mall. And um there was
another one um Councilwoman Bulman and I'm just literally it just dropped out of my brain uh since I'm doing this all from memory. >> Um but I'm looking at at uh deputy
manager I'm sorry Mr. Gillan Schwarz. If I could just add to that, I think what I and I wasn't at those meetings, but I certainly followed them because there was a lot of amendments that came out of it, >> but I I think it really started with the master plan identifying the C1 and the
Washington Street Mall area as a candidate for this concept. Now the details of that were kind of flushed out in discussion but then I think the discussion really narrowed down to this is going to be a new concept and why not consider where that might be most useful
to deploy as like a pilot program and establish a definition and a process that people could utilize to maybe convert these spaces with limitations that might serve really what Kate May is trying to do which is bring yearround and long-term residents back to the city
or keep them there and give those opportunities some life rather than, you know, kind of leaning towards short-term rental, which is really where the market's trended. Um, and so looking at this as a a an opportunity to test a
concept in an area where it might be feasible, where there might be some storage un like a area that's used for storage, but maybe that could be a long-term housing unit instead. And then what that does is it potentially creates an opportunity to say look if there's some success with
that. You can take this concept and this program and this process and then deploy it in other areas of the city that you might think hey it might work over there and maybe you can go to if if you want to see the concept expand
it. It really is a a matter of just amending the code in those areas. And I don't know necessarily to be frank that the planning board would be um against expanding it and having an all-inclusive at least for the C1. I mean that was the recommendation that came out of the
master plan as Mr. Gillenwart said and it really was reinforced by Mr. um Hurles during the discussions. Um now whether or not you could expand this beyond the C1 certainly you know I think that goes to the to the logic that Mr. Gillan Schwarz puts out. So, um I from
my perspective, having been part of the discussions, I don't think that there would be any um concern about promoting this and expanding it beyond the Washington Street Mall blocks um and using this as sort of the beta test throughout the C1. So, if that was a consideration and the other thing I did
remember was that we were talking about those properties that currently do offer it as short-term since they they would be notified and plus they would be you want to use it grandfathered in so that just so that they're on notice that they should maintain that in order not to um
not being conformity. >> So, that was the other uh piece. Um before we go any further with questions, just to give anybody who doesn't know what we're talking about a little explanation, um we had received a couple applications through the planning board,
not not through city council, uh for short short-term rentals, Airbnbs, VRBOS's uh u on locations above stores on the mall. This has been a discussion in Kate May for decades, as some of you know. Um I think
on I'm oversimplifying this but but to explain it to people who don't understand um there are stores on the mall where above the first floor there's basically nothing on the second or third floor and the reason for that is that they cannot provide parking um under the
code uh for anything above the first floor. So, second or third floor had u traditionally been maybe storage or or things like that. We also kind of know off the record that there may be some people staying up there um because it's
not legal that's not being inspected and we really don't know what's going on. Uh so it obviously can can um be an unsafe condition. Um, and frankly, after receiving several applications to put short-term rentals above the mall, which
many people thought was probably the worst case scenario, and if you can imagine so many of the second and third floors of the mall now becoming Airbnbs, everybody turning over on Saturdays, cleaning companies coming in and out. Meanwhile, uh, over these years, it's
been sitting empty. On the other side of this, I think most people understand that we have a um frankly a bit of a crisis in regards to workforce housing in the city and and at the same time you have empty um spaces in in in important
areas and you kind of think, hey, those folks could stay there and work right downstairs. It's a lot of um planning, you know, um town town planning. That's kind of a nice way to plan. Anyway, that is was the genesis of this discussion
and um the idea of this ordinance and I just want to put it on the record and be clear that the idea for this ordinance is not for profit. This is to provide workforce housing for uh our workforce, which in turn may include a profit to
the business. You know, if you're able to hire good people that that can live and work in Kate May, I would assume those people could be very helpful to a business owner. Um but for the record, the idea here is not to rent this out at
a high uh amount to um people who aren't working in town. It's for workforce housing. Um and the discussion, if I can summarize, is whether it should should this be a smaller test case of uh the Washington Street Mall or should it be
all of the C1 and the C1 is a little further outside of of the mall. And I don't have an opinion on that. So I'm happy to hear from all of council. >> Yeah. So I guess my only concern with it is looking at the highly congested area
of the Washington Street Mall and then looking at the entire C1 district, which it includes maybe like a block around the mall in most areas. >> Um which is a little less congested. um if this is going to be a test, do we consider possibly looking at the outer
part of that or do we possibly look at con considering including this in all of that? So I'm not sure just just a thought you know >> if I could just add to the to the discussion um >> if I recall from the planning board
meetings we we also tried to take a look at through the lens of if we brought it back to council what would be the most palatable that that we could look at as that test case. So if we're going to go outside the purview again I don't if
that's the direction that's that's fine. Um I'm just sharing at least from my perspective it was what would be most palatable through that lens of hey we have this test case going on let's try to narrow narrow the scope but if we're going to go broader that's you know
>> that's why I'm saying either we nar keep the scope narrow and go outside of it where it's a little less dense >> but I think the other thing um councilwoman Baldwin one of as part of the planning board the intention of this also was to to make sure that we were
not expanding on transient accommodations on the mall. Um, and so this this targeting that area was specifically done in part for that reason. Also the encouragement of workforce housing. If we were going to
make a change to this, my preference would be that we expand upon itclude include this. Yeah. Washington. And you know, I look at this as an opportunity. I, you know, I think people will, you know, it'll take a little bit of time for it to get some traction. Um once we get one or two that come through and
find out that this really is, you know, something that would facilitate housing and and some of the conditions that people saw as obstacles in the past have been removed. Um that it would encourage others to take a look at it. I would say I'd like to see it expanded to to the
whole C1. Um and then that way we can at least, you know, have it on the outside perimeter where it might be more attractive and easier for some of the conditions. But that the C1 the the Washington Street mall blocks was an important consideration given the
applications that were coming through. Um and >> on a different different end. >> Exactly. Right. And wanting to make sure that we were very clear uh from a city planning perspective that that was not an area that we wanted to see that those kinds of applications um coming. Um and this we felt was a way in to sort of
accommodate or address that. Mhm. >> So, >> I would like to see it expanded to the whole park because then it doesn't look like it's a spot >> zoning within that C1 >> zone. Um, >> so, Mr. Gillan Schwarz, can we just expand it here um with an amendment?
>> This is council's call because I think the the the master plan re-examination report really points to the whole of C1. It was planning, I think, was trying to do what Mr. Riggs was pointing to which is just, you know, look at it maybe as a
pilot program, but if council wants to in incorporate the entirety of the C1 district, we can certainly do that, you know, by amendment here at the table and you can all discuss that. >> Okay. I'd like to support that amendment. >> So, um,
>> Mr. Mayor, before we make an amendment, can I see some of my concerns and thoughts? Um, I'm obviously in favor of, you know, workforce housing, what we are terming it as. Um, we need more of it in this town. Um, and I think because most of
city council's willing to look at this in any location at Kate May, I think it's a good opportunity to do a trial period. I also think the timing is perfect because we have these pl these property owners have the time to um, you know, uh, prepare and remodel these
units by summertime. Um my only concern about this is especially in this area is that say if you have a unit or three units, you possibly have, you know, up to three vehicles that might be sitting just on the outskirts of the paid parking area of town. And if you don't
have to go far from work and home, that car is likely to sit there all summer long. >> Uh ina, you know, until they have to leave the island or for whatever reason. Um, and expanding this is important to me because there's so much more
opportunities in this town where there's garages that can have units above them and mother-in-law units as part of houses and uh because the parking does not allow it. I think uh this is a good start and I'm willing to give it a shot.
>> I agree. Thank you. Um, so would someone like to make the amendment motion? Motion to amend. I I would make the amendment motion to include the entire C1 district. >> Do I have a second to that? >> I will second that. >> Any questions or comments on the
amendment? >> Okay. Do I have a motion on the I'm sorry. We have a motion. Can I have a >> roll call? >> Anything to add, solicitor, or are we good? I'll I'll adjust the language to reflect that. And um this will be sent
back to the planning board um further information, but it's already been determined to be consistent, but we'll send it back to them anyway. >> Thank you. All right. >> So, we have a motion and a second. Roll call. >> Yes. Uh Council Member Meyer, >> yes.
>> Deputy Mayor McDade, >> yes. >> Council member Bodner, >> yes. >> Council member Baldwin, >> yes. >> Mayor Mullik, >> yes. Do I have a motion on the amended ordinance? >> Mor question. I'm sorry. >> Uh in this resol or ordinance in the back there's a uh resolution by the
planning board and on the back of that resolution there's a um I guess a a table that tells everybody's votes. Is that an accurate table? Because I I think there might have been one dissenting vote at that. >> I don't know.
Um well >> I believe there was one abstension >> abstension. Yes. I was going to say I I don't think it was a um >> Mr. I believe abstained on on it. So >> I just don't I just don't think this table for some reason is not accurate
>> uh to the resolution that it's attached to >> and verify the accuracy of that for >> that's a planning board matter. >> I just wanted to point that out. Yep. It should be consistent and >> I'll take it back to them. Sure. >> Okay. So, we have a um we have a mo we
made a motion on the amendment. Do do I have a motion on the amended ordinance? >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any other questions or comments, council? I'll just say, and I think I speak for everyone, I believe, to say that um if the planning board does have
any comments on this between second reading, we'll be obviously happy to hear those. >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer. >> Yes. Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik.
>> Yes. >> And we have the public portion on resolutions only. Mayor. >> Is anyone here wishing to speak on any of the resolutions this evening? This this is public comment on the resolutions on the agenda.
>> Hello Ros. >> Yep. I found it. Raj Johnson, 826 Lafayette Street. Um, I'd like to comment on resolution number 302. Um, it states that administration needs to establish procedures of correct conduct
of employees, officials, etc. when uh dealing with each other and when dealing with the public. Um, it suggests training and monitoring and reporting, which are all great ideas. Um however it doesn't address um avenues of
appropriate discipline when the resolution and the procedures are violated. So um my question is will will consequences be established and included in this future document?
>> Uh Mr. Solicer, do you want or or or city manager, do you want to answer that? I mean we we certain we certainly have uh a personnel policy manual that includes you know disciplinary procedures. This is kind of in addition
to the the ways that we would already handle discipline. >> Okay. So >> certainly >> uh these types of considerations, civil rights policy, I mean these are kind of at the forefront uh of you know the
concerns and and the way that you know we want our employees interacting and this is a pretty common thing throughout uh you know m municipal employers, public employers. I don't know if anybody has anything to add to that, but I I see this as a supplement to you
know, uh, >> you know, it's it's just another thing that we need to comply with and and we have procedures in place for for dis >> Well, does it need to be written that consequences can be found in the manual or something? >> No, that that that's a standardized form
for the certification for that process. But our employee manual has >> Okay. >> a Well, >> so everyone involved knows. >> Yes. and employees get copies of those handbooks each year. They're signed off on those and >> there's a good process for that.
>> Okay, great. Thank you. >> Thank you, Ros Jules. >> Good evening, Jules Rash 1010 New York Avenue. within that um same same uh resolution 301. Would it be
appropriate for that um resolution or policy to have an the requirement for a procedure where before someone is offered a position if it is a what I what I'll refer to as a a supervisory
position before that's offered that they have a background check. I think it's essential that anyone that is coming in into an important capacity in the city before they get the job they have a security check
we do that process >> that is our that is our current I can't speak that is our current process of department head level or anybody that's involved with a minor um gets a background check
>> before the job is offered. >> No, >> not before it's offered. >> So when when to talk procedurally, an offer would a conditional offer goes out to the employee. They would kind of negotiate the terms of hey, I want X
salary, Y salary, X vacation days, etc. Once that person signs off on it, it's comes back to the manager's office. at that time is it's a conditional offer of employment subject to any of the things that you're talking about which includes
a background check. >> Uh >> so they still have to pass a background check if they were to be officially onboarded within the city of Kate May and that's >> our Mr. Riggs would it also include a physical for certain positions? >> Yes, that's correct. >> So blood test standard kind of thing.
Yeah, it's usually a it's usually conditional. Yeah. >> In 303, that resolution does not have an exhibit A. Do we have some idea of what Taylor is going to propose that they're
going to do on the on the beach? >> Mr. city manager. >> The the scope of their services, I described this at the last council meeting. uh their scope of services is to uh work between two to three different meetings with both the uh the
city army corps of engineers and this the D bureau of coastal engineering and evaluate what methods and procedures would be needed to analyze future uh design template changes for the
beachfill profile and to establish what metrics and and what procedures that that they would want to see in order for us to change the template to become a more userfriendly um beach profile, but while also
maintaining the necessary storm damage protection that that it that's the whole purpose of the beachfills is storm damage protection. And we want to try and find the balance between the two. and you know so it's a not to exceed
contract uh to to hold two to three meetings with those various agencies to kind of come up with a program to what would be the future analysis be >> okay thank you uh can we have a some idea of what you're you're going to
adopt uh 305 which is a lease on the AM church do we know do we know have some ideas to what that is >> sure so um Eastland theater is uh proposing to have uh they put on
their own events. They have theater events and they're obviously um promoting the arts and there may be an opportunity for other arts related organizations, maybe an artist themselves or another nonprofit
organization to put on event in the AMA church and for them to partner with those other organizations that are maybe doing something similar. And like like I said, it might be a it might be a a musician performing. might be a a group
performing. It might be another theater organization or an educational thing, something that's related to their nonprofit uh mission and goals and the types of events that they put on. And what they're proposing is that they have the ability to partner with these other organizations to put on an event in the
AM church. But um we have our own process already built into the city code for organizations that want to use public property. You have a use of public facilities ordinance with insurance requirements and hold harmless and a review process by city
administration and an administration fee for reviewing those types of things. So what we're doing here with this amendment is basically taking the process that's already existing in the code for someone that wants to use
convention hall for an event or something like that um and routing that through the same process. So, for example, if Exit Zero Jazz Festival wants to do an event at AM Church, they can route it through uh Eastland Theater, they route
it through the city and it it gets funneled through that same process that anybody off the street would be run through reviewing with city administration, hold harmless, insurance requirements, additional insured, um all those standard requirements, and then it allows them to partner with those
organizations to put on an event. The city also has the assurance that you know they they have some eyes on the event. What's going on in the building? What's the nature of it? What do you expect the attendance will be? All those types of you know uh public health and safety and general welfare concerns are
addressed because like I said we already have a ordinance provision in place. We're just basically taking that blueprint, dropping it into a lease amendment. And then the last part of it is we're going to treat this as sort of a pilot program like we talked about with this workforce housing. We're gonna
uh the term will be January 31st, 2027. So, we're going to try out this concept, see how it works, see how it works for them, see how it works for the city, and then evaluate it, re-evaluate it that at that time. >> Thank you. Uh in the bills, there's a
09732. Uh Service Pro has a bill for $26,400 for mold uh remediation in the new firehouse. Um it I don't know why that is a city bill
when I believe we still have funds being held uh by the contractor. This is a a failure of some sort some sort. So if the if the corrections have to be made, why should the city be making those corrections? >> The city has to pay for it. So to make
sure that the work gets done in a timely fashion. So, we made sure that the work was done in a timely fashion and we will use that as we do our final billing close out with the contractor to subtract off the different things that the city has done to fulfill that
contract and and subtract that off of what we owe him. >> So, it's safe to say the city will be made whole. >> That is our intention. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else on resolutions this evening? Sure,
Jim. Jim Moffett, 681 New England Road. And uh just for a couple minutes to uh my my thoughts on the ordinance proposed for ebikes and scooters.
Um, I I've read the ordinance and um agree with what you're trying to do. We should cracken down on ebikes and bicycles as well on P on pavements,
sidewalks, um, no lights on your bike at night, uh, no helmets for youngsters and things like that. So, I I agree with the ordinance. um with one exception
and and that is penalty and as I read it, it's a $100 fine for the first offense and a $200 fine thereafter. Now, is that what's really going to
happen in all cases? I know with bicycles and talking to the police department a couple weeks ago, uh unless it's a an offender that you know is a you know a continuous
offender, it's usually just a warning. You shouldn't be on the prominade. Uh you should have your lights on and things like that. It may be a verbal uh or it may be a written and and I I got to admit I don't know if
there's something in the regular ordinance for bicycles if there's a dollar amount for you know further on. >> Yes. >> But to put in an ordinance that is $100 first offense,
I don't think you're really going to be doing that. And Okay. Uh, so why not put something in there that says warning or if it's a habitual offender, you know, $100, two $200, but it it just seems
overly dramatic to me to say $100 first offense, $200 other ones. So that >> I agree with you, but I think the solicitor can comment. It it it's cons I would say it's consistent with all of our ordinances, but uh I see Lieutenant
Walker is with us this evening as well. Uh but the solicitor could probably answer. I mean it it is consistent with the other ordinances that we have on the books. But but you are I don't want to speak for the police. >> Why don't you Why don't you come on up,
Lieutenant? >> Let's grab a mic. Lieutenant >> Lieutenant Walker is going to join you if that's okay. >> I join you up here at the microphone if that's okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, sir, just because it says like a first offense, that warning can still be issued. Officers still have discretion. Um, that warning is not
going to constitute a fine the first time that they have contact with them. Now, on subsequent offenses, if they choose to issue a citation, then yeah, that's where that first offense would come into play, and that's where they would be subject to the fine in court. and then another subsequent citation
after that would trigger the other $200 fine, I believe it is in the the way it's written. So that first time, that first contact with that individual, that visitor, that's not going to require a $100 fine if we just take their information, add them to our CAT entry.
Hey, this is a warning. Just so you know, these are the rules. Have a good day. So, if that makes you feel a little bit more comfortable. >> Okay. But I think what you're saying is I think what you're saying is reality and what is put in the ordinance are two different things. >> No, I think the ordinance shows like if
you get a citation what the fines are and I think that if officers use their discretion and give a verbal warning for that violation, then that fine wouldn't need to be imposed. It's it's important to note, too, um, you know, we're statutoily
limited on the degree to which we can't just put in here like $10,000 fine for a first offense, nor would we, but >> that's that's good. >> Yes. >> But but what we do we do have some some room to work. I'll just give you an example like this this 100 and 200
that's within the range of what Chapter 7 already provides. we have a a not less than $50 nor more than a,000 and/or imprisonment for 90 days. You know, look, that's going to be the rare cases. But when we're talking about fines, I think we want to give our enforcement
personnel something to sink their teeth into in terms of look, don't violate this, something to put on the sign and say, look, we really need to follow this because these are the ramifications. the penalties and the, you know, what can come of an offense really goes to the municipal court judge and what their
discretion is and the prosecutor to sort of have those conversations. But I think we want our police to be able to say, "Look, you know, you got to follow this stuff when they're issuing a warning to say, look, I'm catching you this first time, but know that this is these are the penalties. So, can you put some lights on this thing and can you stay
off the sidewalk and and then and let that sink in? But they're not writing them a summons that says pay, you know, you got to pay $1,000. Usually, it's like you violated this and then that that plays out in the municipal court context. But I think it's good to give
give them at least something to sink their teeth into and make the ordinance have some meaning. >> One example might be maybe they want to hit somebody with the fine on the fir on the first offense. If somebody's zigzagging on the prominade between people and being really unsafe or, you
know, egregious, they may want to say, "Hey, this guy really needs a fine and to know that this is serious, you know." Yeah. >> It's it's another tool that our officers have in their toolbox now to kind of combat some of the recklessness that's going on. >> But like Lieutenant Walker said, it
doesn't eliminate the discretion and they can evaluate it on a case-by case basis. Like, look, this maybe this person wasn't paying attention. and they're remorseful about it and maybe that's a warning and then that's where prosecutotorial discretion comes in. Um, you know, and that flexibility from my
standpoint, I think, is a good thing to have in there, but not go overboard. You don't have like a $10,000 fine in there or something like that. >> Okay. Well, that's that's your decision. It was just my observation. I have another observation. Um, and I don't
think you want to necessarily put it in the ordinance, but I I think it would be very valuable if we had some good discussions about um things like enforcement. How is this
how is this going to be enforced? Uh I know enforcement of bicycles in my opinion still leaves a lot to be desired. It's it's not e if it were easy to do, we'd have already done it. Uh but maybe we do things like you know look at best
practices around the country maybe particularly at small town uh resort or uh places like Cape May. Um something like u education.
What are we going to do to uh try and educate ebike and scooter users about h how how they should be acting and the things that they're doing which are wrong, whether it be going down a uh a
one-way street the wrong way or riding on a sidewalk. Um can we do something in the schools? Can we do something as a a general service in the community? have uh
and I guess what I'm suggesting is maybe we have this um advisory committee, bicycle and pedestrian advisory committee get together with city council, the police department, uh the bicycle and pedestrian advisory
committee and o over over the course of a period of time. It doesn't have to be next week, but you know, try and set something for the goal for 2026. >> Jim, I I appreciate it. As you know, um
and for those that don't realize it, I'm the the leazison to the bike and pedestrian advisory committee. So, we've had an opportunity to discuss some of these issues and we're actually in the process of working on what our agenda is going to
be for 2026. One of the issues that we have discussed um and there's a myriad of them but one of them of course has been enforcement and uh just went to know Lieutenant Walker I appreciate you coming to our last bike and pedestrian advisory
committee meeting to give an update on >> I guess the state of affairs um you know through uh in Kate May over the course of this um this year. So I understand why the issue of enforcement and the issue
of ebikes resonates with Mr. Moffett who is standing here as a citizen but is also our chairperson for uh for the bike and pedestrian committee because these are issues that we that we have um have discussed. So you know I I I think it's
important for the public to hear as well. Um yes enforcement is important to everybody in the city. It's an issue that we hear, I'm sure, I know it's an issue that the police department hears about on a on a regular basis. And um
one of the one of the discussions that we had in a presentation that Lieutenant Walker made at the last meeting was about the directed patrols that the police department did in particular on the prominade and on the mall over the course of the I call it the busy the
busy season. Um, included in that presentation was well early in the morning until late in the morning having staff out on the prominade, out on the mall specifically um to look for issues about people
riding their bikes recklessly or riding their bikes when they should not be riding their bikes on the prominade or on the mall at all. Um, issues with dogs. We all appear here about dogs on the mall. Well, we heard specifically statistics from the police department
about their efforts to have the staff um advise people to take their dogs off the mall. Now, um there were I don't recall the specific statistics, but I know there were hundreds and hundreds of
instances because they kept track of the individual contacts that um that they had with those individuals to advise them of what the law was and to have them take their bikes, have their and remove their pets accordingly. to to
the best of my knowledge, I don't think one summons was issued under any of those circumstances, which candidly is really the best result. We just want corrective action. We want people to to comply um with, you know, with that. So, I appreciate the direct patrols and I
think that um they were affected this year. Um, and as we go into the as we discuss issues of enforcement in the future, I think it's certainly something we can discuss to even increase in in the future because they were they were effective. You know, the other issues
that that you've raised, Mr. Moffett, look, um, you and I are already scheduled to have a discussion to address some of these issues. I think you and I I think we have I know we have a good report to discuss these. I would I'm looking forward to that conversation that we're going to have next week and
I'll definitely expand that to talk with city council on. >> Okay. >> Very good. Thank you. >> Okay. And as the mayor just mentioned to me, you you're absolutely correct. You mentioned about education discussing the school. That's something we can reach out to them as well and bring them into
this conversation as well. So, thank you, Mr. Moffett. >> Councilman Bodner, we the directed patrol for next season. And if we know that that's some a direction that we want to take, that's a great use of our SLEO staff to start directing them to enforcement of the ebikes. And we have lead instructors that are in all of our
schools. So if we want to touch base with Detective Shustac, that's a great block of instruction for the younger kids and Detective Shustack and some of the officers that teach lead. So it's a good way to segue into that as well. >> Lieutenant, I just a comment too. I I um heard because I know some of those
patrols were later in the season like especially on the prominade and I heard from several people that were really happy to see that just for your you know I I should I should say that to you more often but but people were really happy about that. >> Yeah, it was in response to some of the complaints we got. So that's why it
wasn't enacted earlier in the season. It was you know just to address some of the complaints. >> We appreciate that. >> Great. Thank you. Anyone else uh for on resolutions this evening? Seeing none, we can close public comment on resolutions. We'll we'll have a
further public comment in a moment. Um I lost my paper here. >> Anything to remove from the consent agenda tonight, council? >> I got it. Serious. Sorry. Uh the uh all the additions are not on the consent agenda. >> They'll be handled separately.
>> Thank you. Any additions or deletions? No. Okay. Roll call. >> Um I do believe we have just some abstensions from the October 7th me uh meeting minutes. Correct for Council Member Meyer. >> Okay.
>> And we would need a motion and a second, please. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> A second. >> Now, roll call. >> Council member Meyer. >> Uh yes. With the ex uh abstension to the October 7th meetings. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. Yes.
>> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik. >> Yes. >> All right. >> Moving on to 305-10 2025, a resolution authorizing amendment to lease with Eastland Theater Company regarding the Allen AM Church.
>> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> This was obviously a a question that came up and was discussed by the solicitor. Do we have any other questions or comments? Roll call. >> Council member Meyer? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade?
>> Yes. >> Council member Bodner? >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin? >> Yes. >> Mayor Mul? >> Yes. >> 30610 2022. A resolution for award of contract for extraordinary and specifiable services for Delta Dental. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion.
>> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Uh, this obviously is in involving uh employee health care and I believe it had a 0% increase. Is that right, city manager? >> Yes. Yeah. >> Delta. >> Yeah. Both Delta Dental and Delta Vision
were a 0% increase for this. >> Thank you. >> Do we have We have a motion. >> We have a motion and a second. Council, >> any other questions or comments, council? >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner. >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik.
>> Yes. >> 307-10-2025. A resolution for award of contract for extraordinary and specifiable services. This is Delta Vision. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Questions or comments? Roll call.
>> Council member Meyer? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade? >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner? >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin? >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik? >> Yes. >> 308102025. Resolution for appointment of health benefits consultant Marshia Mlennon
Agency in a required disclosure manner. Do I have a motion? >> I'll make a motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any questions or comments? >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade? >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner? >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin?
>> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik? >> Yes. 309-10 2025 resolution authorizing group enrollment for all Medicare eligible retired city employees into the Hartford group retirey insurance plan 1 and into the Express Scripts Medicare Pharmacy Drug Plan with enrollment facilitated by
Benar Employer Services Trust. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any questions or comments? >> I like to make one comment. There was a lot of work that went into this and um
Deputy Mayor McDade, thank you. Um, management, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um, there was a lot of work and um and also the city employees. There was a >> a lot that you mentioned as far as the city employees really >> kind of making all this happen and
keeping the fees down. >> Um, so I want to thank everybody that was involved. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I I I wholeheartedly agree and um we'll have more on uh health insurance in the next cuping um meetings
most likely. But um to just adding on the uh compliment because it does take a heck of a lot of work. Uh I believe you said the state healthc care is going up 36%. >> 36.5% this year. 36.5% this year and we
are not in that anymore. But thankfully and um the city's saving a lot of money but that is because of the employees that allows us to have a um a good enough rating to go into private insurance. So, >> and it and it's also, you know, they had
a change, you know, so that's that, you know, this year, you know, when we left state health benefits into this plan, you know, not only do they manage their health care well to help keep our rates low, but they had to change and that, you know, anybody that has to go through
that kind of change, you know, is difficult. And you know there were some bumps in the beginning but you know thankfully the employees stayed with the program and you know they they really helped us get to where we needed to be and and and I do thank them very much
for helping us go through that process because we couldn't have done it without their help. >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh we do we have a motion and a second on 309? >> We do. >> Roll call. >> Council member Meyer. >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes. Council member Bodner. Yes.
>> Council member Baldwin. >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik. >> Yes. >> And I forgive me if I missed this earlier. During um the manager's update, I believe we wanted to discuss water tower. >> You can at the end >> at the
>> Got it. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Uh we're I think we're almost at the end. >> I think we're there. >> New new new business. City solicitor. >> Nothing tonight. Thank you. >> City manager, you're on. >> Thank you. I was waiting for the new business part to add it there. Very
excited about it. >> So, um I would like to uh request that we uh authorize an uh an approval through the RFP process for a nonfair and nonopen process. I think that's the the
statutory guidelines, but for a professional services contract to Remington Vernick in the amount of $63,000 to prepare the um bid specifications and then ultimately do the construction inspection for the repainting of the
Madison Avenue water tower. >> And ultimately there will be a formal resolution at the next meeting ratifying this, but I think there's some timing completely. We're trying to get this moving ahead and at that point you know the full their proposal will be attached
to the resolution. Um we did we did receive two proposals uh to do the work and uh Remington Vernick was the most you know they based on price and technical factors felt like they were the most qualified to continue and move
forward with this project. >> Do we need a motion on that? >> I would if we could have a motion please. Okay. Um, what would you have? >> The motion would be an authorization for the manager to to commence that, but it's going to be subject to a formal
resolution at the following meeting for professional services agreement subject to paytoplay and all the standard conditions that we would include in that. >> Do I have a motion? >> I'll make the motion. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any questions or comments? I'd just like
to add to it for the public's benefit. um the city manager and and um we we included um I don't know know how how much money in the budget for the painting of the water tower, but we included a good amount of money in it to
paint it. The city manager has done a lot of work um looking at different options um basically just painting it or other warranty options and and uh maintenance options. and so uh has really reviewed a
lot of different things to get to this point. So I'm very comfortable and also has gotten quotes from multiple engineers to move it just to painting at this point. So I appreciate that. Just to be clear what about what we're doing tonight, this isn't the the painting itself, right? This is to
>> bring an engineering firm on board to cover the RFP process >> to prepare the plans and specs to ultimately bid for the project. >> Wouldn't that be great? And the fact is we we really want to make sure we get this project started by hopefully the spring of of this year. So, we'll see.
Um, okay. So, we have a motion in a second. Roll call. >> Council member Meyer? >> Yes. >> Deputy Mayor McDade? >> Yes. >> Council member Bodner? >> Yes. >> Council member Baldwin? >> Yes. >> Mayor Mullik? >> Yes. >> All right. >> City Clerk, any updates?
>> Yes. Just a few announcements. Um, we have the Trickor Trails Cleanup is scheduled for October 30th from 3:00 to 5:00 p.m. We encourage everybody to come out and volunteer. Um, trick-or- treat night of course is on October 31st from 5 to 8. Uh, that I do believe there will
be a portion of Washington Street uh closed during the event hours. Again, I'm not sure if we know the exact location at this point. Was that last year was Union? >> Thank you, Lieutenant. We appreciate >> Mayor. We can do Union, I believe. Jefferson. >> Union Jefferson.
>> Okay. >> Union or Jefferson. >> That's great. >> Uh the next council meeting is a Monday, November 3rd at 5:30 p.m. Uh because election day is Tuesday, November 4th. The polls open uh 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. So everybody get out and vote. And
that's it. >> Thank you, city clerk. Uh Council Member Baldwin, >> just one thing. Uh, Jazzfest is coming up um November 7th through 9th and it's not just jazz for everybody to know. It's jazz, blues, and folk music. It's
an exciting uh weekend in Kate May. But the the day before on a Thursday on the 6th, uh there's a fundraiser and I have uh some flyers here for anybody that wants
it. Uh it's a fundraiser which is really exciting. The jazz festival actually does a locals music education and they have a um an artist in residence and they work with the local uh schools in the area. So, it's, you know, from mainly in the county, it's lower Kate
May Regional. I think Wildwood was involved, uh, last year or the year before, Ocean City, uh, high school. And then the students go and they're treated to a great concert and lower. Um, and that fundraiser, um, includes Jason
Morsales, which is exciting, >> and the Ocean Avenue Stomper. So, if anybody's interested, there's flyers here, >> and that's all there. >> That's great. Thank you. Uh, Councilman Bodner, >> tomorrow at 11 o'clock in the morning at
the nature trail. Um, gonna be >> um, >> does this mean it's gonna rain tomorrow? >> Yes, it I was going to say. Yeah. So, be be forewarned. Wear your hazard gear. So, the wellness walk is scheduled for 11:00. Um, yes, I've been rained out at
least twice. Um, so again, be forewarned. um myself um I think some folks from the recreation department will be representing as well and if you can come out um would enjoy walking with you on the nature trail and uh hope to
see you then. >> Thank you. Um Deputy Mayor. >> Uh nothing at this time. Thank you, Mayor. >> Councilman Meyer. >> Uh yes. Thank you, Mayor. Clerk, is are we open on Veterans Day or we closed that day as well? Just making sure. Um I just I don't want to steal
any too much of your thunder, mayor, but you know that was a really cool um event at the police fire station at the 50th anniversary. Great, >> you know, it's a really great event. Um everybody did a great job speaking. >> Uh last Thursday, the Shade Tree
Commission members and uh our deputy city manager and our and our public works uh representative all went up to Atlantic City for the tree federation. It was a lot of fun, lot to learn, and know >> and uh it was a 100th anniversary. So I remember thinking to myself, wow, the
spirit of the 60s and 70s really stayed alive. But if you think about it, it's a hundred years they've been thinking about tree protecting trees and how to incorporate trees into urban environments. And so there's a lot of great talks about that. It's really great professor. It was like watching a
a Baptist uh minister. It was just so captivating. Um, I also want to thank uh talk about the parade, the Halloween parade on Sunday. Um, I want to thank the judges that helped me with that. I want to thank Casey and Rachel that did a great job. Uh, like I want to thank
the fire department for bringing out the Lef France. I want to thank the police officers and the and the uh fire police for doing a good good job keeping us safe. Um, it's really special when you see some of these kids and parents and what they do together and their dogs and
uh, and you know, I think a lot of people's hearts melted when they saw some of the kids that were so excited to win at that event. So, that was really special for me. >> That's great. Thank you, Councilman. Um, I just echo uh, what you just said about the 150th for the firefighters. That was
really a great event and um and congratulations to not just uh the current firefighters but uh the many that came before them. And um also I'd like to thank the recck department and the police department as as Councilman
Meyer just said for the Halloween parade. I really think that was a wonderful parade. I think people had a great time. So and and our judges who did a wonderful job. Uh thank you. With that we'll open it up for public comment on any and all matters. If anyone has any they'd like to bring up, please come to the microphone. Just state your name
and address for the record. >> Public speaking probably mumble and hopefully get through this. First of all, I want to say thank you, Zach, Mayor, Zach, you have done an amazing job for Kate May. I grew up here. I'm back here. My mom still lives here. >> The community center was
>> We need your name. >> Like a gift. >> Excuse me, ma'am. I'm so sorry, but could you please say your name and address? >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Name and address. >> Julie Julie Shehy, five Jackson Street. >> Um, >> thank you. >> It and the fact that it was free, I was like, "Oh my god, I have I bike ride. I
had a a terrible accident when I was 17. I broke both my back. I was in pain for 45 years." Good news is I had two surgeries in the past two years. I'm now painfree. I can walk without pain. >> Wow. >> But bike riding is my jam. I I bike ride outside unless it's blowing a gale like
today when I had to do it today or raining. So to be able to walk out my condo and go over to the brand new community center, it's like it's I was like, are you kidding me? Like yay. So yesterday I was there and everybody there is wonderful. The staff is lovely.
They came up to me and they said, "Oh, Julie, we have to hang this sign, but we we wanted to talk to you first." And I was like, "Okay, what? It's going to be now $10 an hour to ride a Pelaton." And I was like, "What? I'll just do the math without the
vacation days. That's $3,650 for one person. That's insane." >> Yep. >> I And I I was so upset, but I was like, "You know what? I'm not going to be a 2-year-old and go on Facebook and say anything." Well, today I was like I was
going to go over to North Beach and join again. And I was like, "You know what? It's too nice out." I walked I went had to go to mass for a friend of mine. She had to walk over here and pay taxes. So, this is my second time in the building today. Anyhow, I went upstairs and I said, "I need to complain." Like, what the heck? And I just have I spent 3
hours yesterday looking to see when did this happen? Why? What? Anyhow, I said, "Well, I had, you know, my bike I posted a picture of me bike riding. It was like my map quest, whatever. I forget what you call it. I was outside for like an hour and 45
minutes. That would have been what? Almost $20 to go." I'm like, "That's insane." So, I said something and Mayor Zach said, "No, that's wrong." So, I'm just here to get some clarification. >> So, all the city council members that I
talked to in the just before the meeting, so not everybody. Uh we're unaware of the change. Um so, we are going to talk to the the uh city manager and everyone and see what we can work out. And uh I think I think we'll come up with a good
>> because I am a taxpayer. So, yeah. So, tomorrow am I going do I have to go north Kate May or can I walk across the street and go Marggo? >> It's an ordinance. I mean, >> so we're just hearing about this. >> Well, I have a piece of paper that actually shows a chart that you all said yes on.
>> Excuse me. No, we did. We voted on it, Julie. I'm sorry. It was an ordinance and we made changes to a a number of fees in that, including for the exercise classes. I I was sort of the one of the council liaison who worked on the community
center. So those fees were reviewed, but there were, you know, probably three pages of fees in there. And when um the mayor said it to me, I said, "No, that's for the exercise classes." You know, we raised those fees. They hadn't been raised in a number of years. I go to the exercise classes, so I know that we
weren't aware of this. So, it's not something that we could just pivot on on on the side here like because it's in an ordinance and we've have not had a discussion with the city manager. So, I would say give us more than till tomorrow because
>> but but I have a screenshot of Zach saying it's free for taxpayers like >> Well, that was our understanding. I'm just explaining. >> Yeah. And and I apologize. I I probably jumped a little quickly on that. I I didn't realize that the ordinance was on I thought it was just on exercise
classes, not on the bikes itself >> and that's fine. I'm sure like you know this is >> we didn't realize it and so we haven't had an opportunity to speak with the city manager. >> But we let me just say this. I totally agree with you and uh I'm going to do the best I can to to >> and let let me just say a couple more
things. First of all, um like I know I'm like not I'm not not the only person that uses that, but I'm like one of a handful. There's only been like five days that there's ever been anybody but me in there. And I know because I set the I set the bike the way I set it and
it's always the same. I understand if you want to charge people that are staying at Congress Hall and they have more money than cents, you know, $10 to work out because they're on vacation anyhow. >> I'm a taxpayer and I don't use it every like I will use it in the winter because I can't ride outside in the winter, >> right?
But if you you're not generating any revenue now for the people and it's free. You're certainly not going to get like I'm not going to go there if you're going to charge me $10 a day. I >> I hear you. I agree. >> I'm just saying. And I and I've been promoting it as like it's wonderful. People come like, "Oh my gosh." You know, I've met like a couple that got
married and they met at Notre Dame. They were in there last week. I'm like, "Oh, I never see anybody in there." It's like somebody walks in, I'm like, "Oh, yay." It's >> lovely. >> And that's the intention of the community center. So we we agree >> and the staff, they are just the loveliest people. So I just want to say
thank you. So yeah, >> where am I going tomorrow to work out? >> We we will get we will get this worked out. Give us give us a little bit of time, but I'll be in contact with you. >> All right. So tomorrow, where am I going? >> Uh tomorrow you may >> Yeah, tomorrow you're going to be outside. >> No, it's going to rain. It's going to rain.
>> Go on the nature trail. >> I'm going I'm going to the Taking my screenshot. Not with your bike. >> I'm going to the >> I'll see you tomorrow. 11:00 nature trail. But I will I I will be in contact with you. >> And I don't know, just as this is a funny thing, I don't usually come to city council unless it's involving a bike because I don't know 10 years ago
you remember bike gate >> when Mayor Mahaney clipped my bike. >> Yes. >> Oh my gosh. >> We will we will not take your bike. >> Anyone else this evening on any and all matters? Jules >> Julius
>> Juliet Julius >> Jules 1010 New York Avenue I'd like just to make a couple couple comments about the uh the electrical electric bikes um does the statute limit us at 17 years of
age for helmets >> what what do you mean >> well the the the resolution uh uses the age of of uh 17 of being everyone under the age of 17 has to wear a helmet. >> Mhm.
>> I think that's I think we ought to have it at least 21 years of age. Um, and I think the I'd like to see the expansion of exclusions where the the electric
bikes and scooters cannot go and uh to include the uh the the beach, the ADA uh beach uh walkway uh the prominade. We don't spell it out in the resolution. And I think it would be a good idea to
spell out where they cannot go. >> We already have a um just sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Rous, but we do have a prohibition on power assisted devices on the prominade already. Well, what what I'm going to indicate is I think it
would be a good idea for the for the committee, the bicycle committee to come up with a handout that describes what we expect people that have an EV to do or not do. And that should be given to
every motel, a hotel, the people that rent out these facilities. And frankly, if there's an opportunity to have it go out with to the to the taxpayers. so that we can give as many people as possible notice that, you know, if you're going to ride an EV, you're going
to be responsible. Do you know they they already know with the Guinness Book of Records, they're up to 280 miles an hour riding an EV bike. >> Mhm. >> And you can buy them out of the box for 60 to 80 miles an hour. Uh not at all
uncommon. We're going to see a lot of changes in this program in the next couple of years. And if we don't catch a hold of it, it's uh it could be an is a real a real issue. >> Mr. Roush, if I and not to interrupt you again, but just to give you a little bit
of a global view of this, what what was on the table tonight, I think um so we had a discussion probably last meeting about well, we'd really like the state to take a unified
approach on this. And I think everybody left that discussion feeling a little unsatisfied with the twiddling of the thumbs on that and uh reached out to lower township solicitor because they had just decided well we're going to do
something until the legislature gets their act together on this issue and and there might be something permeating out there with the legislature but it's not going to be an immediate thing. So, the advantage of doing this is it's we could we could craft this a
number of different ways, but what Lower Township did is they basically put these things on the same playing field as a as a car. You're not going to drive on the sidewalk. You need a headlamp. Uh you need to stop for pedestrians. I mean, you need to think of yourself as a car
when you're driving one of these things and use the road. and Lower Township adopted virtually the same provision. We got a copy of that. And if you think about kind of the entry points and exits for the city, there's an advantage to us
having something that's similar uh from an enforcement standpoint that lower township police see people coming on Skeleton's Landing and they know that the city of Kate May has the same provisions that our police can pick up when they come into town. So it's not like, oh, I'm in the city of Kate May. I
can ride on the sidewalk anymore. It's like, no, there's going to be a communitywide and almost a local Cape Island approach to this. And I think West Cape May may be considering a similar provision so that we're going to have all these entrances and exit exits
um following the same rules of the road until the legislature decides they want to do something different. So, no, it's not perfect and you know, there there may be some things that we have to change, but this does provide a definite
starting point for it can't be chaos out there with these things anymore because like you said I'm I step out the front door of my office and I almost get clipped by one daily when I'm trying to go get my mail and they're trying to stay off the road but you know that's not safe for pedestrians either. So the
helmet thing is a statewide thing the 17 doesn't mean we can't do something more than that but that's where that's coming from. >> There's there's two issues. One is is the ordinance which has to be presented in a specific way. But if we create or
if the committee crafts a handout that describes in a very simple way what what people that have these electric vehicles cannot do and it's handed out it might be a little more effective. So Mr. fancy
resolution. Yeah. So we have the we have the LSV one now. So, I was going to recommend to Councilman Bodner to take a look at that and for economies combine them together because you could be giving them out to the hotels. They're posted here in city hall. We meet with
the golf cart community, but you could meet with the people who are renting these bikes on the island, etc. So, there might be some synergies and saving and economies on combining the LSV and the electric scooter together. Um, potentially. And to pick up on that, um,
look, the LSV, you know, material that's out there. There was a there was we saw the issue that was coming up with LSV LSVs a couple of years ago. Um, and I think that educating people and having that out there to show that it's an issue. um to bring it to people's
attention. I think it I think there has been better behavior by LSV riders over the past few years. Couldn't agree with you more as far as providing some type of information for the ebikes. So, uh Mr. Roush, I definitely will discuss
this with um with the committee. Um and I agree with you. I think would be an excellent idea for us to have information to provide to the hotels um and to be able to just to be able to promote. I can tell you this much. I've spoken with um over the over the past
few weeks, I've had an opportunity to speak with the different um bike rental companies that are in town to just to talk about a variety of issues with them. Um each one of them that does rent
EVs out. I'm not sure if all of them do, but the ones that do rent EVs out, um, they they have discussions with with folks and they have told me that they that they talk with people as far as what they're supposed to do operating in
um, EVs and I know one of them at least one of them has told me that they will not rent an EV to somebody who is under the age of 21. Well then, >> so which is which I think is a benefit for all of us. >> No question about it. >> But um I I agree with you as far as
having some information out there and then we can discuss as far as how to how to combine that or how to promote that. >> Okay. I have some comments I'd like to make about the uh workforce housing. First of all, the the ordinance for C1 says that Yeah,
>> I'm sorry to interrupt you by I I just want to add one little thing. we've already talked about a lot, but the the with the um ebikes um and we said this really in the a prior resolution to really encouraging the state to make stricter laws, but I
just want to say that because it's so much of this is a state issue that I'm really surprised they haven't acted uh a little quicker than they have because two things that really stick out to me are they need a license plate just
like a moped. And you mentioned the other one of a speed limit which because as a parent who's had a child who's asked for an ebike because a lot of his friends have them and I've said no because if you look at the statistics
where somebody would typically fall on a bike and maybe break an arm and you add another 20 miles an hour to that and now they're having really really serious injuries. It's it's it's really scary the amount the the speed >> mayor they they now have motocross races
for EV bikes, >> right? Yeah. >> And I saw an interview on TV where the guy that won said that his EV is equivalent to a 500cc 500cc uh uh race bike, right? And uh I mean
these things they they fly and next generation everybody we all we all were young at one time. We're all gonna have the fastest bike in town, >> but but I just think the state really needs to take quick action on speed
limit and license plates very quickly. I mean, it seems to me I have bipartisan support. So, anyway, I apologize. Go ahead. um workforce housing. The the ordinance in the city classifies an apartment as
one something that has 500 square feet habitable area. That's the definition of a of an apartment. Um when you consider that that is the minimum size for an
apartment as the basis for what we are creating. You have to think what they can do with 500 square feet using the formula that is in the ordinance. That means that you can have four people
in each apartment. That's kind of scary when you look at what four people, four occupants would have in one apartment. You're now we're saying, you know, if you have workforce housing, you don't
need a vehic vehicle. Well, I want to remind what you classify as workforce housing. It also includes people that work full-time either in town or I'm sorry, they don't work full they don't
necessarily have to work full-time, but they have to be uh a a resident of the city and they don't necessarily uh have to work in the city. They can work anywhere they choose,
but they can come and class get classified have having a a year or two-year rental lease. And that property that they're occupying does not require a parking. And uh it to
me is is is not representing what I think of as workforce housing. Workforce housing is supposed to be for the people that work here, not for someone that works up in in Ocean City or >> Jules, can I comment on that? Sure. I I just uh
that was a discussion at the planning board and and we discussed should we exclude or not exclude and the reason that a majority of the folks felt that um it shouldn't be limited to the city of Kate May is obviously you have
West Kate May Kate May point lower township on Kate May Island but the thought was do we want to exclude perhaps a school teacher or a nurse verse that obviously adds a lot of value to our community. That was the reasoning
and I'm not saying it's perfect or correct, but I just want to highlight that for you. >> Your workforce housing uh it talks about workforce housing and long-term housing opportunities. Someone can occupy a quote uh workforce
housing, occupy it for a year, two years, three years, have four people in that apartment, and they don't require any vehicles at all, any parking spaces for their vehicles. >> I don't I don't think we're saying that they don't. out. >> Yeah, that's
>> I I think it's really quite clear when you look at the the definition under workforce housing, >> we're we're that's so that is the that is the incentive and the tradeoff to create long-term housing
opportunities and hopefully invite opportunities for people to be a part of this community whether they work here or not. And I think it recognizes the practical reality that we don't have an unlimited supply of jobs in within city
limits. So to artificially limit it to people that may and say you have to work in the city of Kate May, it's like you got to look at this as a as a bigger issue. Um and a lot of communities are struggling with it. You know, there's
there's examples of Breen Ridge, Colorado provides uh financial incentives for people that rent to locals versus Airbnb. This is not that. This is this is promoting providing not a financial
incentive necessarily directly. It's providing a zoning incentive to say that you know what, you may have a storage room above your store that is just loaded with boxes right now and you're really only using it for that. But what this would provide that person to do is
evaluate that space for maybe an alternative use that if you're able to meet the requirements in here such as you can't cram people in here like sardines. You got to have two people for per bedroom and asked to meet international building uh and and health
and safety standards that are cited in here. And it provides some guard rails to maybe get some use out of that and get more of a community um or bring back sort of a a community feel in the city of Kate May um and have people have a
long-term housing opportunity. So, yes, there is the opportunity for somebody that does not work here to have a long-term housing opportunity. We use workforce housing here. It's probably my fault to be honest with you. We kept talking about workforce housing. It's talked about in the master plan, but
that it's not limited to people that work here. It's a term of art and it really is intended to incorporate and specifically calls out long-term housing opportunities, people that are staying at least 90 days or longer. It's not supposed to be the the month vacation.
And it's supposed to be the, you know, person that is making this place their home. Eating at the restaurants, shopping at the stores, walking the streets with their strollers. Like, that's that's what this is shooting for. Is it going to happen overnight? Probably not. But this is a pilot
program to try and pursue those opportunities. But it does provide for an individual to rent an apartment for as long as they choose beyond I think the um well for for a year as an
example >> and you want them to become part of the community and you want them to be interested in staying here and serving on boards or volunteering or >> I don't believe the city frankly can um can accept
another 100red or 200 people living in the city without one parking space. That's that's the that's where I'm coming from. This this elimination of a parking space doesn't work for the betterment of the the city. It works for
a few people that own the real estate because they're the ones that don't have to provide it. Well, I would say on the on the flip side of that, if we had not worked um to put this in place, all of those apartments and those units could have become potentially short-term and
you would have had two to three cars overturning every Saturday with cleaners. >> I agree with you. I'm I'm opposed to >> this is this was a I think to address the issue of not wanting to have that accommodation on the mall. Um, and the
other part of it was we need to make some kind of a step forward to bring people back into this city. And if this can accommodate it, I think then we need to address how that works out with people with parking. But the demographics in this city and the
full-time residents, we all know what those are. If you're going to be able to continue for this city to be viable 10, 15 years from now, we need to do something. The parking problem exists. it would still exist regardless of whether or not >> we're going to add to it. >> We're not not necessarily. And that
that's that was important. There's a definitely uh a tension here about this, Mr. Rous. And it's not it's not to say like, oh, parking is not an issue. It's what uh Deputy Mayor McDade pointed to, which is these spaces are going to be
there whether we change this or not. And it's a policy choice about, okay, we wanna we want to do something with those spaces potentially. They could be converted to more commercial space, potentially inviting more customers to come in to use spaces that don't already exist. So that's another problem. That's
a zoning alternative there. What this is doing is saying, you know what, maybe this isn't a a zoning alternative that doesn't quite rise to the level of more commercial space and more cars for parking spaces we don't have or more rentals that are seasonal that are going to we're going to have six cars coming
in for the weekend. This is saying, you know what, maybe this is a lower impact use relatively to those other uses that may present themselves there. And it also provides this net benefit of building back a community. Now, that's a really rosy picture and it's probably not going to work out that way, like I
said, overnight, but it's it's to set that ideal and maybe shoot for that and maybe little by little you build back these opportunities. You're certainly free to disagree with that. And then there's there's undoubtedly yes, this is waving parking, but it it was a design
choice based on, you know, this is probably not going to impact those things as much as a short-term rental uh were. And that that's based on Mr. Hurles's professional planning kind of feedback on that as well. So this this was with professional advice and kind of
thinking about the relative impact of these things. >> You know the initial basis was you know section 525-22B where an apartment is requiring 500
square feet habitable area. Big difference between habitable area and just square footage. But in any way that you want to compare whether it's the using square footage or habitable you're still coming up with an ability to have four people in an apartment. That's
that's based on on your facts. The other thing issue is when you when you speak about grandfathering if there have been illegal or improper improvements made to a in a building.
You can't grant my understanding of the law is you don't you cannot grandfather that. >> We that that is a correct statement and that is not what this is proposing to do. >> It's not if you get in under the wire you're good. It's it's got to be lawfully existing at the time of the zoning ordinance adoption.
>> When you talk about the the need for not having a site plan, we're talking now about an apartment of 500 square feet for four people and you have certain requirements for fire and safety.
>> You've got window sizes, you've got handrails, you've got door sizes, you've got and and it goes on >> Mr. crash that all it will be required construction official has to >> but you're saying they don't need site plans I'm saying UCC >> a site plan is an overall survey of the
property and exterior you're talking about an architectural plan for building renovations those are two different things that's not a site plan >> there should be a site plan for that apartment submitted by the owner to show how he's going to meet the safety requirements >> and we're trying to say that it will be
reviewed on site by the construction official it will undergo a yearly fire inspection. They will be registered without not needing an American tile license and registered with the city clerk. >> So this is not this is not a pass. This is just saying they don't have to come
and file an application with the planning board and come and do a presentation in that form. That is that was again a decision by the planning board to make this a more attractive process but while while still safeguarding the occupants use of that
space by ensuring that we're meeting all of the other conditions. >> The other issue which uh is based upon the type of construction that exists on the mall. Many of the third floors of those buildings do not have fire breaks. So you've got one building next to
another building and there's no division, no fire division. I think the inspection that is done of those buildings should be done by the state fire marshall, not a local mar local fire marshal um by virtue of the type of construction.
>> But but they do all they in any new construction would have to provide a fire break and fire rated walls and that you know any of that new construction. The the other issue is it's an economic issue. We're going to we're going to offer the owners of property the right
to modify their building to create apartments and depending on the extent to which they they improve that property, the the amount of rent that they can charge is going to be based upon the market. And I
I submit to you that workforce housing is not going to be that the need for workforce housing is not going to be satisfied because the economics of it are going to be such that they're not going to be able to afford it. And that's a concern. So there's a number of
a number of issues, none of which is going to solve the problem. I understand that. But we need to before you start to expand areas, you know, if you're going to use this as a as a pilot, let's let's take a look at this before you start thinking about more areas in the city.
>> I agree with you there, Jules. >> We Thank you. We Everything you said is a is a concern. So, I I think that's one of the reasons we wanted to see this as a bit of a pilot to see how it's working out. By the way, if it's starting to not work during the process of it, that's
something we can change pretty quickly. [Laughter] >> Go ahead, Jules. >> Making change after you've created an ordinance is I yield to your solicitor. Um, that creates an issues issues unto
themselves. If if an owner of a property has made tens of thousands of dollars of >> I didn't I didn't mean of the properties that went through it. I meant a if we need you said the number I think of like 200 people or something. I don't see
that happening. But if I'm wrong and a 100 people start happening I think we can say hey I think that's enough. Well, I guess the question is h how many how many buildings on the mall would be available for having their second and third floors for workforce housing?
>> We don't even we don't even know that information. >> Quite frankly, that should have been >> we can't go in and >> the planning board should have should have done a study to evaluate and know exactly what the potential is for this. >> The potential is
>> almost limitless if somebody wants to pursue this program. This is, like I said, it's an incentive, a zoning incentive to shift towards this type of use. >> Yeah. But there's a finite number of buildings on the mall. So, if you've got 50 buildings on the mall, theoretically,
you can't have more than four one four uh people occupying a building. Well, theoretically, so if this exempts convert certain conversions from site plan review, but what it may do is if somebody's looking
at a major overhaul of a building, which we've seen or the planning board's seen at least, um it it allows that person to evaluate, hm, what's the menu of uses and what are the requirements? And it may incentivize the creation of this type of housing in connection with an overhaul of a building. And those can
happen and have happened. Well, there's no question there's several apartments or several buildings that have had improvements and they've spent a lot of money and the improvements are absolutely wonderful. >> But but now we're talking about they're not going to have to provide any parking.
I'm concerned about the the the the compar they were asking the planning board to give them exceptions. you do with these the short-term and transient they were coming to the planning board asking for parking variance exceptions and in some cases they were granted that so we were already
waving the parking >> we've been granting parking exceptions for the last 15 years >> I think we >> uh to our own detriment thank you >> I just want to say thank you for your comments Mr. Rous, this or ordinance is going to go back to the planning board. So hopefully they heard some of your
comments and discuss it there too. >> Thank you. Anyone else this evening? Martin, good evening. >> Martin Van Walston, 329 Congress Street. Um, so I am a dad that has a 25-year-old
and therefore I didn't have parental override anymore when my son decided to get one of these ebikes that like Jules said is capable of 60 miles an hour out of the box. And the way I I've wound up doing a lot of research because the night that he got it, he was um he
t-boned a car in an intersection that failed to yield. So he was in the emergency room and thank god he had a moto helmet on or he may not be with us. So, um I did quite a bit of research following that and I was appalled to see
this is at a federal level. Um these definitions of class one and class two and the way the manufacturers are skirting those laws in terms of licensing and and registration is they are you get a key that limits you to 20
or 28 miles an hour and then you can have another key that allows you to go to 60. Okay. I'm concerned that your definitions don't encompass those bicycles that are capable of doing 60 miles an hour. That these these these
definitions specifically say not more than 20, not more than 28, not more than not more than 25 miles an hour. So if the definition of a motorized bicycle is a maximum of 25 miles per hour, technically that bicycle doesn't meet the definition of a motorized bicycle.
Um they're in essence they're dirt bikes. They're electric dirt bikes. And um in speaking with another father here in town who has a a teenage son,
they're not buying bicycles anymore. They're all getting ebikes. So I I want to make sure that we have definitions here that are going to encompass what I realized at the state and federal level. The way that the by the manufacturers
are working around it is using the technology and the law is so far behind the technology. I want to make sure that we capture what's actually out there which are these bikes that are capable of doing significantly higher than 25 miles per hour.
>> Martin, can I ask the solicitor are we capable of doing that? Is that something we can do in limiting the Could you could you give your suggestion again as to what you about the speed? >> Well, so for example, um the motorized
bicycle definition to fall under that definition, it says a maximum of not maximum speed of not more than 25 miles per hour, >> right? So if they had this second key, in other words, and they were able to increase it beyond 25, your point is
this ordinance would not apply. Okay, that >> nor would motor vehicle laws because they're nonregistered, non-licensed vehicles, >> right? So it's kind of would be in a no man's land. >> I think I I'm I'm first of all, I'm sorry to hear
about this story. Um, and but this ordinance, someone would have to get really cute at the municipal court level to say that the faster bike is not a motorized bicycle. Um, that's the the intent of
this is to capture the power assisted uh bicycles and I understand what Martin is indicating. um we can this it's almost like too specific I would think because we can we can just say it's power assisted and we already
have those definitions in the code. So I look if if I was presented with this at the municipal court level we have other provisions of the code that point to these types of things as power assisted. This is providing color to that but that's really what we're regulating. So
I'm I I we can amend it or we can change the definitions, but we already have provisions in the code about power assisted and it's regulated. And if we look at imperry materia and we have to read all the code provisions together, I don't think somebody can seriously come
into the municipal court and say I had the faster key therefore I'm not regulated. That's not the intent of this. The intent of this is if you have a power assisted vehicle and you're riding through town on a sidewalk, no. So, that's that's the way that I would
look at this. Um, and you know, I don't know if we want to we can pick this up at the next one if we want and we can look at amending the definition section. >> So, how about putting the power assisted definitions in here? >> Yeah. No, that that's what I'm saying. I
mean, we we can we can >> Yep. instead. I'm I'm trying to avoid like chopping this up at the table right now, but we can certainly address that the next >> I I re I read what was happening in Lower Township and I understood that we were following suit. Okay. Um I I think
that a lot of this is to signal the intent to the ebike users that hey, we're serious. We we are going to for your own safety >> crack down on improper use. So, I would encourage us to make sure that when we
do this that we're pick we're picking up the entire market of these bikes. >> And I think I think it's there's some lot of kind of speeds and things like that to avoid the argument that it's so vague you can't even define what a motorized vehicle is. So, that's why there's more detail, but I think we can
probably hit a sweet spot on this. So, I'll take a look at that before the next meeting. It's a good comp. >> Thank you, Martin. I'd be happy if you met with the solicitor and and gave us uh his suggestions from there. That's great. Yeah, perfect. >> Yeah, I I my other home in Massachusetts, you
never see anyone riding a bicycle without a helmet. It's just unheard of. >> Okay, to for anyone to be riding these without a helmet there, you know, it's Darwin's law if you ask me. >> And and I just I mean, thank God my son was smart enough to and he was
completely he was doing the 28 miles per hour. He was using the right key, well lit, helmeted. Okay. Everything is fine. >> I think you're trying to make the point that accidents happen, >> right? >> Because I it was I mean it was so close
to being a tragedy that um >> please >> I got hit by a car once in my 40ome years of breaking down here and I I never wore a helmet. My husband said, "If you don't wear a helmet and you get a brain injury, I'm not going to spin spoon feed you." And I said, "Okay." So,
I wear a helmet. I used to wear the helmet, go around the corner, and take it off. >> Well, that helmet saved my life when I got hit by I was on Broadway and it was I had blinking light on. I'm in hot pink. I was doing 18 miles an hour and this SUV.
>> I think because I was going so fast, I didn't get hurt because I like bounced into the thing. But >> I don't understand how people don't wear helmets. I see people with like moms and dads with the carriers and the kids don't have helmets on and if I say something you know I get the finger and I'm like so I don't say anything anymore
but like you know what you're low to the ground if your kid gets hurt like I a helmet will save your life and after I had that accident Tommy Ross was like oh you have to get a new helmet because that's comp like so if you do get an accident you need to get a new helmet so
>> sure >> I'd be happy to be on any bike safety committee thingy we're looking we're looking for volunteers. >> The last thing I wanted to add was something that Raz pointed out at the last meeting where these are a lot of the people that are coming into the city to to work. So, it's not we can reach
out to the bicycle rental agencies. We can do those kinds of things. Um the largest in my I don't have any statistics to back this up, but to me in my opinion the largest percentage of the users are people that coming off an island that are workers here. >> Yeah, most definitely. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Raj Johnson, 826 Lafayette Street. Yeah, just uh quickly um on top of what Mr. Moffett said and Mr. Rous. Um it would be a great idea to hand out um these new
rules to employ to businesses um as the gentleman said because they are a a big portion of the people that are coming into town and they need to know the rules and there's no way of them knowing unless we tell them. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing none, motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> All right. Thank you everyone. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you. >> Time is 7:14.