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e e e e e e good evening everybody I'd like to call to order the St Pres preservation Commission of the city of Kate May March 17th it is now 6:00 on the
button in compliance with the open public meetings Act of 1975 adequate notice of this meeting has been provided if any member has reason to believe that this meeting is being held in violation of this act they should state so at this time hearing none how about the Pledge
of Allegiance of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible liberty and justice for all Judy could we do the roll call
please Mr Carrol here miss bagno here Miss Wilson stck here Mr Stevenson here Mr hammerin here Mr Tesa here Mr Becker here Mr Johnson here Mr CTS here thank
you so we have two sets of minutes to approve the first is for our last public meeting on February 10th everybody got a chance to review those Judy sent them out so I have a motion to approve those minutes so move so move
by second Janice Janice second it's a any discussion it's a race it's a race any discussion I'm sorry M Mr chair yes um I made an ER there was a second set of minutes to be approved for the February 20th meeting as well um HBC oh
you're going do separate okay thank you John yep so any discussion hearing none motion by Mr hammer and seconded by Miss Wilson strick Mr Carrol yes Miss bagno abstain Miss Wilson stck yes Mr
Stevenson yes Mr hammeron yes Mr Testa yes Mr Becker yes we have a second set of Workshop minutes this is for the special meeting held on February 20th which all of us attended it was the alignment Workshop everybody had a chance to take
a look at that as well I'd like to entertain a motion to approve those move to uh adopt those minutes moved by Mr Testa I'll second second by Mr Carol any
discussion Judy motion by Mr Testa seconded by Mr Carol Mr Carrol yes Miss bagno yes Miss Wilson stck yes Mr Stevenson yes Mr hamran yes Mr Testa yes
Mr Becker yes thank you and also we have payment of bills we have received one bill and you all received that as an email get a chance to review that like to entertain a motion to
approve payment of that bill so move seconded any discussion moved by Miss Wilson stck seconded by Mr Tesa thank you Mr Carol yes Miss bagno yes Miss
Wilson strk yes Mr Stevenson yes Mr hammerin Mr Testa yes Mr Becker yes thank you so we have three resolutions to approve Pro that we all also receive via email the first is white at 1623 New Jersey Avenue block 1186 slots 4 and 5
resolution 202-5336 resolution 20256 I would note that there are still some conditions that need to be met for this resolution which will be uh presented to the Review Committee and then lastly Roth Reinhardt at 1250 Lafayette Street
block 1129 Lot 21 resolution 20257 like to entertain a motion to approve those resolutions do you want a motion that leaves the Jersey development out until they have completed let's ask our solicitor no they're conditioned
subsequent I'm sorry say that again Chris there there's on the Jersey development there's a condition that was imposed it's outstanding um but but it's it's it's phrased as a condition subsequent yeah the the intent here I think my recollection of that discussion was that in order for them to pull the
permit they're going to have to provide plans compliant with this resolution so that for instance Bruce can just look at that look at the resolution look at the plans say they're compliant and at least for HPC purposes give them HPC sign off so I believe that was the intent not necessarily that we need those in hand
tonight but if they want to proceed with the project they're going to have to yeah those conditions are right in the resolution be fine right okay it's one it's one make a motion all three resolutions be approved moot okay motion by Mr Carrol
seconded by Mr Hammer Mr Carol yes Miss pagno Miss Wilson stck yes Mr Stevenson yes Mr hammerin yes Mr Tesa yes Mr Becker yes thank you so we also have a list of applications that have been
approved or denied in review it's a fairly long list so I would like to entertain a motion for approving and ratifying those applications I'll move so moved by Miss Wilson strick second seconded by Mr
Stevenson thank you Mr Carol yes Miss bagno yes Miss Wilson stck yes Mr Stevenson yes Mr hammeron yes Mr Testa uh yes with respect to all all of them except City of Cape May 405 lafette
Street um on which I'm going to abstain thank you Mr Becker same for me um yes on all of them except for the same project city of Kate May 405 Lafayette Street and I will abstain on that one thank you okay so now we are off to Old
business but before we move into Old business one of the things that we did together on February 20th this whole commission as we spent about four hours really working on why are we here what is the real purpose of this work and we
collectively after about 12 iterations have a very simple purpose statement and this is the purpose of our work at HPC so in order to sort of align all of us in why we're here this evening I'd like to read it to you very quickly so hpc's
work the purpose of it is to serve as a catalyst for guiding and valuing Cape May's historical cultural and natural resources in a way that inspires and unites or actually in ways that Inspire
and unite our community to Steward these resources for the benefit of all so that present and future Generations continue to express the unique quality of life in this place we love so if we can all hold that together this evening I think we'll
have a great meeting all right um before we get into the first project um there is one change in the agenda this evening one of the projects under new business Burton at 302 Howard has withdrawn their
submission for this evening and we'll be representing that in April so if anybody has their documents that were in their packet if you could please pass them over to me I can give them to Judy so she can reuse them at our next meeting and let's just open it up real
quickly does anybody have any general public comments they'd like to make before we get into specific projects okay trach y yes could you please and turn on the microphone make yourself comfortable wherever
here are two copies of our enabling I'm J Shotz uh the Kate May City shade Tre commission chairperson here are two copies of our enabling ordinance uh for you and several copies of
the tree protection requirements that we give to the the construction Department gives to every contractor to comes in for a construction permit I think I have copies enough here for just about everyone um I want to thank you for the
opportunity to come and talk to you today we're after the same things you to preserve the exterior uh of the buildings and Kate May a key contributing in other buildings and we try to protect the landscape that exists on the buildings so we're working in the
same environmental type of a thing uh and uh with only three or four exceptions we have control of almost every tree in Cape May uh 3 in or more in diameter measured 4 and 1/2 ft above
the ground uh the exceptions are Rotary Park that's run by a public private group the bid on the mall the physical estate and a tennis court we treat them as private citizens requiring approval
to take down trees again 3 in or more in diameter uh other than that that's about as far as we far as we go and we thrilled to have the uh HPC put an application in or mention in
or Copus on the uh ordinances or the uh requirements or the approvals that come in so we have a chance to make a statement or a viewing of the trees uh on the property that are not within the foot print of the house the driveway or
any outbuilding uh that's involved in uh in the new construction great that's it so I have a I have a document to give you pardon I have a document to give you you do based upon uh our discussion a couple of weeks ago we have now added to our checklist
for all applications an item that if any trees are proposed for for removal that must be checked on our applications so that we know about it and we specifically state that the shade tree commiss application must be completed so I'd like you to have a copy of this for your
record thank you very much and this is this is for you to pass to uh you to your members thank you that's what that's for that's the applique that's the U the uh letter that's handed out or the thing
that's handed out to every contractor that comes in for a building they must protect the trees before demolition starts the shovel goes into the ground and construct ction material arrives on scene excellent well thank you very much thank you very much for the
opportunity thank you thank you okay starting with old business Addis Incorporated 1317 Beach Avenue have we Representatives here uh good evening chairman members of the commission Keith Davis nead Davis and Goldstein on behalf of Addis uh
concerning the L uh beachfront Resort joined by our project architect Bill mcle welcome back gentlemen how are you doing well this evening how about you guys doing great nice to see everyone as you know we were before the uh commission last year received conceptual approval allowing us to go to the
planning board we did go to the planning board and we have received uh site plan approval for the project which consists of a a new uh banquet uh facility um and also uh replacement and renovation of uh certain hotel rooms uh within the
existing facility and we're back before you this evening for final terrific do you want us to have Mr MCC review the plans we did bring additional sets I'm sure they're in your packets uh and review uh the final uh version that
was approved by the planning board sure and perhaps the easiest way to do that is just address the issues that were raised in the conceptual review that Provisions that have been Associated just that that would be fine okay um so I guess probably
the one two four uh bullet point items that we really kind of focused on in the conceptual was a um the Landscaping kind of working our way in you'll see included in the submission
set excuse me landscape uh development plans from bow which were included in the submission to you thank you for that which um show the landscape buffer which was reflected in our plans um and I believe this was originally submitted in conceptual and some of the species may
have changed but obviously as you can see in that uh submission on sheet L1 that landscape buffer appearing again uh on a on a overall landscape plan it's accompanied with a plant schedule which
um delineates not only the um common name but obviously the scientific name has quantities and it has sizes for each of the species what I would probably call your attention to is the majority of the species that are used
for screening not necessarily ornamental they're all specified to be full specimen when they're installed so uh that goes for ornamental overstory as well as Evergreen and Street trees there
are a few Street trees that are proposed to be replaced due to the deteriorated condition of the street trees that are there that's been reviewed by our shade tree commission and approved they were they issued a letter actually fairly recently with no
exceptions to the landscape you're referring to L1 where those three trees those Paar trees are being replaced uh yes yeah okay yep in addition to that there's an existing cherry tree uh that's a street tree that is to remain um and the London Plane
trees that run along the balance of the property on New Jersey Avenue which are kind of outside of the footprint of development those are all existing to remain so just a quick question does your construction documentation take into account protection of those trees during construction yes okay great it
does so that was one topic that we were uh we spent a considerable amount of time on the second I would probably describe as the garage Frontage and the accompanying um the accompanying
uh fence or gate oh the proverbial gate whatever we want to whatever we want to call it so the gate is shown in detail on I can find the sheet for you the gate shown in elevation on the elevation
sheets but shown in detail on sheet 521 so there you will see um the radius top gate which is an ornamental Iron Gate well it's an ornamental metal gate I should I should say it's going to be uh
aluminum painted finish it'll be a Kar three coat uh finish to deal with the sea Seashore environment that gate is biparting on a rolling um Trolley system basically but rather than just deal with the existing ballards and the the
accompanying uh equipment that comes with it we wrapped it with a brick veneer enclosure so those are the brick pilers you see on either side they're also complemented with a pre pre-cast water table and pre-cast cap uh on the top of the brick piers and then
supporting the planter structure and trellis that we have over top of it creating the archway uh is structural steel tubing which will be powder coated that's nicely depicted on HPC 3.02 as a rendered yes nicely done yes
thank you um I guess the um third area was more over the the elevations in general and I think think that uh Mr car asked for a little more specificity in what was happening there um those elevations um fully develop now are
depicting finishes throughout um I should point out that um we're showing a brick water table wherever there is Brick so there's a cast on water table that accompanies the brick on the I'm sorry sir can you site the sheets you're referring to yes so the brick water
table is shown on sheet a522 um the break is shown on the elevations on let's see HPC 2.03 HPC 2.04
and to a lesser extent on HPC 2.02 so we Carri that brick around the majority of the addition and trans transition either above the water table to Brick in the areas where we have um
columns or stairs below the hotel Wing itself if it is part of the uh banquet facility it transitions to an ephis or a stucco finish above which is articulated uh and detailed on that same
sheet 5 uh 22 and I believe 5'11 as well um there are selected areas where we're incorporating cement board Clapper siding from James Hardy I think that was
included in the um in the cut sheets that we initially submitted that appears uh mostly on the hotel Wing itself and it's kind of recessed back so obviously the hotel units themselves have balcony area so kind of set back off of the
front face of the balcony where the railing is is predominantly where The Clapper siding shows with the one exception that um bump out that we introduced on the New Jersey Avenue side which is wrapped on all three sides of
that pump out in a Hardy plank um I guess the final topic would be I think we talked at some length about shutters the shutters themselves uh are shown on the elevations where they occur um
they're going to be um as manufactured by Atlantic Shutter and just a flat louvered um Vein on the shutter itself uh and we're incorporating shutter dogs with them as well great thank you but those those shutters are just fastened right dog
that is correct they not operable aluminum correct aluminum correct painted and with dogs somewhat custom sized due to this custom sized due to the um the application but yes yeah so Kevin shall we start with you comments questions
turn your mic please sorry I would assume you were taking down some trees and what we were trying to achieve of course was visual screening for the residents on New Jersey Avenue uh and New York I just want to make sure that that um you know as you take down trees you're having that discussion with the shade tree commission and The
Replacements uh we have actually this plan as developed has been submitted to the shade tree commission and they and it was a condition of approval for our site plan approval that they review and comment and they had no objection exception to okay other than that it
looks to me like they' met most of the things that we were looking for D seems to me like they've met everything all the requirements that we had thank you Jake okay I just had a question that I see
that on the um East Elevation all the rooms for the doors the sliding doors or 18 light C patterns and then on I believe on the south elevation you you don't have them or you don't have them on all sides they will actually be on
all sides okay absolutely consistent we're going to be consistent with the existing building so what the existing building has we're carrying all the way around so it we'll be those yeah okay yep I don't know why it's not showing up there anything else Jake no Janice I
have no comment it looks good Mr Tes that's that's a rarity no comment what no comments no no I not for me I do have comments um aside from um when we first met and you did the conceptual and you seem to refuse to believe that beach
is actually the south side Pittsburgh the East Side New Jersey the north side and your new Wing the West Side um I want to I want to compliment you on uh addressing the points that we made I I think that um a lot of us were concerned in the beginning that the new uh Center
would be far too close and its mass would approach New Jersey Avenue and uh and perhaps be an intrusion on the residential um section on the other side of the street I think you've pulled that back um the features that have been done on that facade soften um its approach
the mass has been reduced the features soften it um and uh I think in terms of the building construction uh I think it's it's a really really good job as you may remember I was concerned about the Landscaping buffer yes U and I what I see here and I'm I'm not going to try
to be an expert on it it looks really thorough it looks really sufficient and my my sole concern and and it's going to be something that I would propose in connection with your uh applications approval has been the maintenance of that buffer it looks really good U and
um we hope that we'll keep it that way because that will provide uh uh adequate uh protection for the residential section on the other side uh so a really nice job thank you just to follow up with that I'm
assuming that that section of landscaping that you're doing would have an irrigation system worked in it as well because with so much solid Paving around it uh there's very little chance that they would get enough rainwater yes particularly with some of these dry spells that we get comp compared to last
night yeah um I Al I would also like to comment on the fact that uh you know when we have projects like this coming in there's so much emphasis on the front of the building which is the sales Place uh where they're trying to attract people and the backyard always becomes a
little bit of a problem you really did work with us very nicely with that gate that you're putting in that little bump out on the new construction that looks a little bit more like a two-story uh building coming out from them those were great great cooperation and I really
thank you for working with us so much thank you I I think that the process this process has really benefited the the project overall yeah um really nice job I uh appreciate working with us especially like everyone's saying getting that back
elevation the rear elevation on New Jersey Avenue um the way it is but just a general question um you you did include the resolution from the planning board were there any major deviations from that as I was going through here there was a traffic study some other
minor things but it didn't seem like there was anything that really affected us um I'm just trying to go back through in my head I don't I don't think so there's really more the um there's really more the integration of the various approvals
that they need between you know uh at the county level with solar Ro cement control County planning board and of course D those are really the big yeah and justification for the parking you know we focused a lot on that which is more of a site plan issue of course sure
um and I had testimony from a traffic consultant on that right that ter architecture and Landscaping I can't I mean I I think they were happy with the landscape plan I think they were fine architecture I don't recall any real changes uh that were required is there
like additional like deceleration Lanes or anything like that and there they minimally talked about that and here I didn't know if there was any change to that on the actual plan no no okay from what was submitted no changes to the site plan okay yeah nice nice
application thank you thank you thank you than you no nothing from me happy that happy that we're here I know that you uh have worked with us I think was the first meeting that I was in was January of last year so it's been a long time yeah I think that was probably the first meeting hly when I saw name on the
docket today I was like I appreciate the the time the attention the partnership I think it's such the job well done and I look forward to seeing the results great thank you lovely my neighborhood you guys really did an exensive job of this thank
you thanks so I would just like to especially thank you for work so carefully with us I think we probably had three four maybe even five meetings about there was more than that but it was it was helpful like I said in the last one I think and no
extra charge I think it was a beneficial process that's hopefully what we're trying to do right thank you because you're highly responsive so i' like to uh entertain a motion to approve this project coming from somebody who has fought almost every big
Motel uh Construction in this town and how they've deviated with the town I'd like to make the motion that you've done a wonderful job and we give you our full approval of it thank you do you want to include the condition that was in the um
conceptual approval about the yes use the same language yes that'd be fine can you just recite that language and remind me what it is is uh condition to be included in approval is that the proposed landscape buffer along New Jersey Avenue shall be installed in connection with the development and be maintained by the applicant or their
successor in perpetuity unless otherwise Modified by subsequent action by both HPC and the zoning or planning board this condition is to be recorded in the office of the Kate May County Clerk in favor of the city so the last part I take exception with the recording part of it um we take no issue with the
maintenance obligation we take no issue with the maintenance obligation but uh I know we had a discussion about at the last meeting I think it might have even come up at the planning board meeting too I forget but um we take exception to a deed restriction we think the approval speak for themselves they're certainly
enforcable it's part of the approved site plan the applicant has a legal obligation to maintain it um but we don't want to unnecessarily record any instruments that would impair marketability of the project in the
future I mean the the purpose of recording would be to assure that future parties are on notice that's all it would do I mean if you're okay with the the substance of the condition all recording would do would prevent somebody from saying oh I didn't know about that well but there's case law
that charges a buyer with going to City Hall to find all approvals and when they purchase a piece of real estate they're also purchasing with not notice of any land use approvals that are granted by this board or another board I have to say I I think that um it's hardly
unlikely in the transfer of this property from the current owners to Future owners that it'll be other than a hotel motel Recreational facility I mean it's built for that purpose so um that being the case the the maintenance of
that buffer uh is to us an important factor and it seems to me that that ought to be known uh by anybody including any purchaser of uh the building and and uh of the property so it seems to me it's it's it's reasonable to put it in not only as a legal
obligation enforceable by the city because it's part of this approval but that it requires public notice and I think that was the reason why we said it the first time we think it's within our ability to impose it uh it's a condition that we would impose not not to try and interfere with any transfer of the
property I don't think buyers are going to my personal opinion is that if you have a landscaping buffer to maintain it's nothing that's going to reduce the price that someone's going to pay for purchasing Lam mer so I don't think our imposition uh for recording it is unreasonable at all well I appreciate
everybody's wonderful comments tonight and I don't want to be negative but we can't agree to it and we object to it and respectfully I think it as well beyond your jurisdiction guess guess we're going to have to find out about that if it's a condition of the approval as I would I would put it as a condition
of the approval as read I would vote to final approval if I could butcher that because I I disagree with that Mr Davis I respect uh I respect your opinion but I disagree and the reason for that is um you know putting a bunch of landscaping in
front of something to create a buffer is we dealt with this in a recent application is kind of the precisely the type of thing we're trying to avoid because Landscaping can die and Property Owners can change and nobody's going to take care of it I we don't I don't think anybody expects that to happen here with
this applicant but we we do have an oblig to safeguard you know prevent massing in a particular area and that's what that's there to serve respectfully I think if the applicants okay with the substance of hey that's no problem I just don't want to record it the recording is just to put on the off
chance that they sell to put the other party on notice seems to me this leaves us in a situation where the current applicant is bound by all these covenants you agree with that correctly they're not covenants there is maintain a landscape buffer is a covenant it's
not a covenant it's not not I I won't debate the legalities with you are they Bound By by this obligation the current current owners if if it is part of a condition of your approval then it is something that has to be filed yes yes so they're Bound by it yes they're Bound by so so if they why do you need a deed
restriction if they are bound by it what is the problem with the successor operator of this Motel being bound by the same condition they are anyway as a matter of law as my point you don't need a deed restriction I agree I AG I agree with you okay age well we we agree that
everybody's on notice of it right because there's also a statute out there that says whatever's on file with the county everybody's presumed to be on notice of but you and I both know that it's much better if somebody just it's part of the record so that when they get their title report if they go to sell
it's one of the things that shows up and they can't possibly say oh I didn't know about that even if they can't rely on that lack of knowledge to say oh it's I'm not bound by it it just avoids this back and forth over stuff that you don't need to argue about it's if the substance of this is okay okay I don't
frankly I don't understand why the applicant would be opposed to saying CHL we're all bound by it I'm Bound by it if I sell it somebody's Bound by it why why are we pushing back on putting that let me tell you why because this project is ever modified in the future we're going
to have to come back before this HPC processs we're going to have to go to the planning board again which is what that says if the nature of the Landscaping is altered in any way from what is now before you then that it's not just coming back before you for approvals we then have to to modify that
deed restriction we have to re-record it with a new plan and it's not necessary and if my client was sitting here and he apologizes this was scheduled last week and we appreciate it but he had plans to be out of town and couldn't be here I remember when he was here he said I
cannot agree to a deed restriction if he was sitting here today he would say the same thing this is a multi-generation business that we believe has generally been a very good corporate citizen here in the city of Kate may they are going to live up to their oblations to maintain the landscaping and they will
do so but we cannot agree to ad and if the commission wants to entertain that the only thing I ask is please vote on it separately and not part of the motion for the final approval itself so we have an understanding as to where every member particular issue is the the
applicants concern that if they pluck out this tree for that tree that they're going to have to figure out if they're in compliance with this yeah because then we we're not just defending an approval and and what the approval provides for then we have a a deed
restriction which has other common law rights associated with it we're in more of a litigation posture which we don't want to be we're we're not um try yeah we're not trying the goal of this exercise though is not
to you know pluck out this tree or that tree substantially complying with what was presented you know what the presentation that you guys made before and today was a good one and what I think what the board is trying to say is we want to keep substantially that
whatever you presented in place and if you have to pluck out this tree for that tree I think that there there's maybe flexibility for you know compliance in there but something that substantially resembles what was presented both before and today is really what I think the
condition it it had never been Our intention to micromanage the Landscaping plan and we would have done that if we wanted to do that um C certainly you're not going to get in trouble nor is your client nor is a successor going to get in trouble for removing individual trees and with respect to recording a
condition it's easy to record doesn't cost very much it's not a question of how f it is to record it the issue is that is how it impacts our property rights I understand that there are property rights affected by it and it's Our intention that not only is the current owner to be affected by it but
buyers who may want to purchase this facility they also are a notice of the requirement to maintain the Landscaping well respectfully we think that's satisfied with the condition there's no need for a recording I don't think we're going to convince each other as position you've heard where we stand we object to
it and I would respectfully ask it if you voted on SE your approval then we'll see how we phrase that so your request is you would like to have two different motions made yeah if you could vote on the condition that that this requirement to maintain the Landscaping be in the form of of a
recorded instrument I would appreciate it and then vote on the final separately Mr chair yes I would just like to comment that when it comes to maintaining Landscaping we've never treated that like maintaining the architectural features of a historic
building we know land land Landscaping gets old it dies it has storms it that and I've never had an instance where we've come back and said you have to go back and put it in a tree the exact same size of what you had uh that I think the
boards would always be working with that to say you should keep the same amount of landscaping and the same amount of privacy that gives the neighbors and the building inside I don't see a problem in making it a separate one as long as it stays with this because I've certainly
seen things where um people promise to do certain things that later on get undone and it's awful hard going back and enforcing that that's not what you had approval for I believe you made your motion but there hasn't been a second of it yes so there hasn't been a second so
modify it to to reflect that the conditions maybe we can clear this up you made the motion and I believe that you're fine with the first part of that statement that the proposed landscape buffer along New Jersey Avenue shall be installed in connection with the development and be maintained by the applicant or the
successor in perpetuity unless otherwise Modified by subsequent action by both HBC and the zoning or planning board stop stop right please is that we'll sever those conditions put them in as two Tom are you okay with that motion that's my motion do I hear a second second any
further discussion I'm sorry you you're talking about the second the recording part nope it's the second of Tom's motion without the recording part that's going to be a separate motion so the vote now is put them in to include that condition without the recording without the deed recording
requirement yep so that's been Mo made and seconded Judy Mr Carol yes Miss bagno yes Miss Wilson yes Mr Stevenson yes Mr hammeron yes Mr Tessa yes Mr
Becker yes thank you so like to entertain a a second motion that this also have the condition to be recorded in the office of the Kate May County Clerk in favor of this city AKA D District so so moved
a second I'll second been motioned and seconded any further discussion John explain the yes and no it is will you please so I think that we really need our solicitor to explain the distinction here thank you so all this
is is the difference between approving the project with a commitment by the owner to maintain in perpetuity the landscape buffer the second motion is now or requesting that it be or making it the second motion that it be recorded as a deed restriction County and
so if you vote Yes you're voting for it to have a deed restriction so in addition to the first in the deed so just to be clear okay the applicant has already agreed to the substance of the condition is that correct Mr Davis not
not the recording part motion that was approved we fully agree with okay right and and the motion that was approved was that they have to maintain that Landscaping in perpetuity unless modified in in substantially the form presented unless
Modified by the appropriate board so do you agree with that Mr Davis yes that's okay so they've already agreed to that that's not in dispute all we're all you're voting on all that motion would be is a motion in favor of
recording that so that people can be on notice recording it yes just the recording of that not the substance the substance not in dispute they don't they don't want to record it we can vote on whether we want that to be recorded you can move in favor of it one person one member has that that's the motion right
I think we've got the first part of the motion there's a second motion now to add the recording and and i' I'd like you to opine for the board U as to whether or not adding a recording condition to this approval is in your view enforcable yes it is um and for all
the reasons I indicated before the purpose of that is just to put people on notice and you you see this throughout the state of New Jersey you have these XYZ conditions and then 10 years down the road it's changed hands three times and then somebody says well I didn't know about that well there's a way to
avoid that you just record it and sometimes people just take the resolution put attach make it an exhibit to a recordable instrument recorded on county in on in the county records room and then when somebody pulls a goes to pull their title commitment get a commitment for title insurance it shows
up as one of the exceptions and they say oh gee whiz I didn't know that on xate that happened and and then they review it but it's just I don't I'm in favor of more notice because it puts everybody in a better position to make decisions about their property it puts us in a
better position to enforce so if you're okay with the substance I don't see what the issue is with notice but I understand there's a counter to that so the motion uh sorry go ahead said has has this part been made we've been debating I don't recall we actually made the motion to add the recording Condition
it's a separate motion I understand it has it been made mhm motion by Mr Tesa seconded by Mr Carol okay fine so it's been made it's being debated yeah the motion's been made I just wanted to make sure what the yes meant is and yes yes means you're in favor of it being recorded you're in favor of recording it
okay can I ask a question um you know our position we're asking you to vote no but I want to make sure if this motion is defeated the project has still been approved for final pursuing to the first motion so even if this is voted down final has still been granted correct correct correct correct been granted
with conditions yeah we agre to separate motion correct understood yep thank you okay any further discussion I think we're ready for a roll call vote motion by Mr Tessa seconded by Mr Carol Mr Carol uh yes Miss bagno yes Miss Wilson
stck yes Mr Stevenson yes Mr hammerin yes Mr Tesa yes Mr Becker yes thank you thanks very much we should have done that first and then done the around the room at the end Sor right I thought all the I thought all the Goodwill was just
going to go on and on thank you okay next on our agenda is granados and Ru rux is that am I pronouncing that correctly yes did I mispronounce it I'm the architect for them but no that's how
I pronounce it okay great so this is 50 five 500 to 502 West Perry Street and if you could just please turn on your mic state your name and your role in the project yeah uh Douglas Gusman
with the Highland group and I am uh the architect for the client and do you have um authorization from the owner to represent their interest this evening I do and they also emailed a confirmation great I have an email for
Mr Gusman yes Douglas the floor is yours uh ironically last time I was here for this project was the same time they were here so this is a little over a year ago we came uh I came before you to uh for a
existing uh garage to be demolished and uh it was granted uh and however there was issues and and actually the design of the garage was also in in schematic was approved however the uh building uh essentially
sits on the property line and so conditions uh was I had to get approvals uh and so we went to the zoning board and subsequently got uh zoning approval uh for uh locating this garage uh at and
on the property line uh the proposed garage has not changed in its design uh from the initial schematic its footprint and and elevations and interior are exactly the same it with one exception
which was you requested a larger door a garage door from 6 feet to 8T and so that door has been uh bumped up to an 8ft garage uh garage door um the materials uh and the material list has not changed it's uh
identical to what was previously presented uh the means of construction is uh a timber frame garage with the same vertical uh siding wood siding it
has a concrete monolith uh slab and footing system uh because of its proximity to the property line there is fire returant uh plywood on the exterior along the property line uh to protect it
from uh because of building code requirements um and I we are here for a final approvals uh based upon the construction plans that were provided excellent so if you need more
detail I I don't know I it's fine okay maybe some questions yes right Yi how about it be start with you I'm fine with okay see uh the main change was just the uh enlarging the the door and the
relocation of the footprint of the garage we did not relocate the footprint the reason that we went to the zoning board was was because we could not relocate it it was deemed a uh a historic site and and being a historic
site uh it was in conflict with the zoning ordinance so that's why we went to the zoning board to get approvals uh to keep it in the exact location that it previously is okay I think what may be missing from this packet is actually we we did a resolution for demolition
approving demolition there's also a conceptual approval for the proposed shed and including its location then the applicant went to the zoning board to approve the location because they wanted to take it down instead of doing it stick by stick take it down it's in a
bad condition rebuild it and I think you proposed a you know a design of that so and one of the recommendations of the HPC in that conceptual was keep it in the same location because of the reference in the uh surve requested if
we could move it over five ft to make it complying and I was made aware that it's a historic site in addition to being a historic structure and you've been approved by Zoning for that that is correct and the resolution is in the package from them as well and the material list all that that was
conditionally approved that's the same correct it has not changed corre the same package that was provided prior Tom or L I have nothing I'm I'm fine with it sorry it took so long it is
remarkable you you must have been busy on a on a little project um this was a was a really um e easy demolition this is a pretty look pretty looking garage somebody could lean against it and it can go yeah this this is a this is a great Improvement
congratulations Janice yeah it looks great I'm all in favor thank you Kevin sorry Kevin please put your mic on to to for the record will you repair replace restore any landscaping that's
damaged as part of demolition or reconstruction absolutely yep um part of this condition of the zoning board uh was that we had to do a storm water management and uh that's actually in the
front portion of uh closer to the property line uh as the recharge system so that Landscaping that will be excavated would then be re sided and and repaired okay so I have two questions okay just
for clarification what's depicted for the garage doors barn doors on your a101 drawing shows the the panel and then six8 window in each however the The Medallion series cut sheet you gave
appears to be highlighted with the arct top Windows no not the AR top the straight top that that's an error that that's I'm going to say that's an error I apologize for that that's one and the second thing is the only thing I see missing from this application is a cut
sheet of the lighting pictures that you you're right you're you are correct so um we would need to see those lighting pictures okay I we could likely make that a condition of tonight's resolution okay so yeah that said but anybody I
would move to give this application um final approval um but with the conditions that um the um correct uh door uh be be shown deped on detail 511 be shown and that uh lighting fixtures of the type to be used on the
garage be submitted to um the uh to to the Review Committee for its approval that Judy garage doors depicted on detail five of 8101 811 and uh Light Victor cut sheets do I
hear a second I'll second okay moved by Mr Tessa seconded by Mr Carol thank you Mr Carroll yes Miss bagno yes Miss Wilson stck yes Mr
Stevenson yes Mr hammeron yes Mr Tesa yes Mr Becker yes thank you thank you very much Doug thank you all next on our agenda is Ocean Club Hotel Kate May LLC 1 1035 Beach
Avenue well please come up and join us and if you could turn on the mic and tell us your name and your role with the project please uh my name is Neil berer and I'm you have to have a green switch just press a little button there you go good mhm good okay
my name is Neil berer and I'm director of operations at The Ocean Club Hotel and Sea Salt restaurant so you're here representing the owner correct yes okay just before we get started my sheet is not marked conceptual or final so I'm
not sure if this is so do you know whether you are a conceptual final review this evening uh I submitted all the paperwork and I thought does this have do you know whether it has to go to the zoning or
planning board I don't think so okay okay I'm sorry well that's good when whenever it goes to one of those other boards we can only give it a conceptual consideration if you had no other requirements to be approved we could consider it as f for
final Pur yes I I assumed that it was for final we did I did come down here several times to see what I had to do it's good to check the box so we know which one it is okay so this we're considering this for final approval
correct yes all right good is there any presentation you'd like to make or we just our responses um well I was told it's pretty straightforward we have we've had a lot of issues over the years with the we we're just covering the patio and it
will take it off in the winter time but uh we have garage doors on that patio and in the morning the Sun comes right in there and nobody wants to sit near there and also every morning there's dead
birds that hit those garage doors the glass in the garage doors so we had been using umbrellas and different things to help it out but we also have a problem every time every if if there's a rain shower everybody wants
to sit on the patio there's a rain shower and I've got a patio full of people and they all are in different stages of dining and they all have to get moved inside it's not a it's not a good situation for them or us but uh the awning is the same as the
awnings that we currently have uh in the picture on all of the Cabana rooms just an orange so the material fabric on that yes okay thank you so so it it' be a metal frame with canvas covering yes and the canvas will come off seasonally yes
and can can someone on the board remind me this is old business yes well and do does anyone remember what the original revisions or there wasn't any revisions that I had to make it was but I you have not been here
to the public meeting corre no I have not yes oh oh got it got it got it okay MH so does anybody have any comments about this rather than going all the way around um question yes we had another
Oceanfront Hotel that recently brought the uh the coloring of their roof materials down to a more subtle color where and I know we're not we don't uh enforce color but that applicant at the time said we're getting away from the
Howard Johnson's look and that the color that we're using is is our is the Ocean Club color we have it on our towels we have it on our awnings we have it in our umbrellas everything was that orange my point is that and it is such a large
area and it has such a visual impact on the front although we can't tell you what to do it's something you may want to consider I think I think they've already considered it frankly I do I do have a question about the size of the awning um and and
so you calculate it stretch out do I remember 168 in out on the frame is that right yeah so so is there a reason for that large size in terms of what it's supposed to be
covering uh it's a it's a pretty big we're not really extending I think just the normal overhang is from the actual patio it may look bigger on that picture because I can see that he just put in there I'm just trying to
picture the the yeah what you've stretched out here yeah it looks bigger than it actually should be it's showing it in the picture 14 ft deep in the picture it's showing that it's beyond the flag hole and it it isn't it's it's
just I don't know how many inches 54 54 feet is this long 54 by 14 by 14 and I just is fairly normal I'm I'm just trying to make sure that you what you've built here provides the shade and the protection and it
doesn't it doesn't Loom too large on the setting it's a big building it's a big setting um and and to me it looks on the large side but now that I'm look this is the this is a view with it project yeah and it shows that it's even beyond the flag pole you see they they just
didn't it's not 14 ft will bring it no it's just going to be just over the however much overhang I I don't know if it's a foot Beyond over the rails yes okay thank you I have a question oh I'm sorry Ahad
uh I do not have any problem with a color I know it's your signature color with throughout the hotel and everything coordinates with that I when I saw this I thought it's softened the look to a degree because it's it's a large more modern building it says that it has the
scalloped hem I maybe I'm not seeing anything but I don't see the skull here well um I'm not sure that it is scallop but I don't think in the because I thought that might soften a bit you have it scalloped it makes no difference to me if if you prefer it that way that's
fine okay so where's the scallop preference the only thing I would ask is that the um the post be painted material not when I was here you mentioned that so it will be aluminum we're trying to figure out there wasn't any company around that could uh powder coat
anything that big so we're but uh I'm working with blue water to find out what the best uh durable coating would be to put on those legs that that that are exposed but they will be painted they'll be white okay because on this rendering
they are are appear to be white okay yeah yeah well the posts that are there are white now and I don't want it yeah I do want it to match so so just so just to note that our standards require awning frame should be painted metal unpainted raw Metal Frames are not
appropriate so we just want to make that so even the underside would need to be cor Okay the reason why is because in the winter time when that canus is off the whole frame is painted yeah and You' be leaving rust Trails all over the place I wanted to ask while I was here
about this um they had recommended vinyl and we aren't going to go with vinyl good uh okay that's what I wanted to know whether canvas one quick question there drops around oh what eyes and glass well for the
wind so you can this is outside corre yes if it's raining and Rain um they will it does they do have roll up uh okay they soften this large look Yeah by by someone but it doesn't show right
right now you when you talk about the look people drive right by that restaurant and don't even realize there's a restaurant there and this is going to help a lot with that yeah it should we have Landscaping well uh we we
already was it the winter picture or something it is all we I think we do really nice Landscaping all front and rear that's just my opinion now to what Yogi was saying it you're talking about you will have like on in Clement weather you be able to
drop down because if it's my recollection I remember we had a similar proposal from the inter Kate May around their porch and we denied it and I mean that was different solid solid frame solid frame solid frame plexiglass um
winter protection I don't want anything like that I don't want to use them if I don't have to use them right so what we do have the question that I have for you is have have you gone before the um zoning officer Bruce Brittain to make sure that this do not violate anything
this is that Bruce Britain is where I started okay and and and he said I had to go before HBC but he didn't think there'd be any problems with it okay any other questions I really do
think this awning helps that building kind of fit in oh it does I don't know why they I'm a little bit concerned about how far out that's coming now you said it's 54t 54 54t L 14 how much out over over the
front railing just just a bit the I think You' testified about a foot or over no more than a foot over rail I I don't remember whether he said it was a foot or 14 what whatever the normal is well I think we should have a plan that actually has those dimensions on
it we do but it doesn't Rel it isn't relative to the building and also if it's going to have a scow up uh uh front on it I I think those things should be on the plan maybe a side view would show seems yeah it seems that because there's
no overhang on the actual metal framing right that it's just and this these posts are going to be sitting right on the patio correct I believe I believe they are but I'm not sure whether they are you're not protruding that out Beyond The Patio are
you the these posts relative to your railings post would not be they would not be okay inside the railing so they'll be inside the railings or at the railing at the end of The Patio okay so unless there's some extended canvas that means it's going to end and it looks
like it ends right there okay okay that's what the frame is showing that's fine I'm just a little concerned about the looseness of some of these things so I have I mean in the one picture we have of what it's going to be
even has the the umbrella is coming up behind it I I asked I I called because I had never done this before and ask you know what is there anything that I should provide or be prepared to I can give you a list so um the five things
that have come up this evening one is verification that the metal will be painted yes two um isn't that on there that it would be painted it is not no it Sayes metal awning okay and two is a a cut sheet of the fabric that you're
going to use a umbrella fabric yes we'd like to see a cut sheet from the manufacturer that way we know what we're approving three is verification that you do not require any zoning implications here how do I go back to Bruce Britain
yes yes we could get a very simple statement from Bruce four is a plan a floor plan showing the dimensions of of the patio relative to the dimensions of the awning that you're installing that way we know
is it extending beyond the railing or on either side or in the front and then lastly if you would like to do a sculpt awning whether or not you're going to do that or not so I think those are the five things that we I have listed here
would you be willing to um table this for the next meeting so that it would give you an opportunity to bring that forward to us so that we can see everything and then we can approve it when is the next me another month uh April 24th I believe right 21st April
21st how about Review Committee yeah there's there's a lot here well the problem with that is there's a lot we we we're trying to limit the number of conditions that we approve in Review Committee because it's starting to get really untenable I see
uhhuh maybe a copy actual I mean thisy he's G he's going to furnish an actual piece of the canvas so so the so I think I think a good way as as John
has suggested rather than vote on this U because we don't really have a solution other than sort of a conceptual approval and not a final can give you a final approval would be for you to table it and come back to us with all the all the that's a even better
solution we could Grant you conceptual approval tonight should that motion carry based on these conditions okay and then you would come back next month with a final submission with the documentation we request you does that work for you makes you feel better to have an approval of some sort anything
way better than I think we plus it's going to be into our season and yeah of course but the man who blew water I I don't know if he's been before you before or not Blue Water awnings they're they were the ones doing it and he he
was going to do uh more a an actual drawing he has to come over and make sure we don't have to do anything but anyway he's in the hospital so that's he's out Mike they they're up on 47 so yeah
don't they us can do all stainless they well it looks like stainless but it's aluminum it's a a marine it's marine grade aluminum okay so um I think what we're doing make sure we're in agreement about this when we open up this discussion you had said you were here
for final but we're revising that you're actually here for conceptual approval okay okay so right now what we have are and I would suggest that on your materials checklist instead of saying metal aluminum awning you say metal
aluminum frame with fabric cover okay I didn't even bring a pen with me I'm sorry here that would be on the materials checklist you so that and I would say painted
metal aluminum frame so what we be looking for the conditions of the conceptual approval would be that verification that the frame will be painted cut sheet of the fabric you're going to be using a a statement about
needing any zoning approval okay a plan showing the dimensions will he give me a written something he can do that via email which would be fine okay and and we would even we would even accept your testimony that you did that you sure yes
we Mr Burger just on that though you you want to confirm the reason we're talking about a overhead plan which I think the Chairman's going to get to two 2D showing the overhangs okay that you're proposing you're going to want the zoning officer to review that
to confirm that that that's compliant with zoning the overhangs okay see see cuz right now we're between a frame that you show which is chopped off with its vertical supports ending at the railings and your statement that the frame and
the canvas might overhang a bit over can't really get there from looking at your simple drawing like this shows there's the building there's the railing you show us the dimension in its length of the railing and the dimension in its depth from the building to the railing
and then just show a dashed line of where the awning will overhang that okay that's all we need how about fans or Lights under that I hadn't planned on it there's none there I hadn't planned on it you're not planning on any lettering
on the awning either tiet because that's not allowed no just okay plain bright orange just plain bright orange neon bright orange I clear okay so let's just review this real quickly the five
conditions are painted metal frame need a fabric cut sheet zoning uh approval essentially a plan showing the dimensions of the patio and of the awning itself and a verification
as to whether you are proposing a sculpt or not okay okay so if you want I will make a motion to Grant conceptual approval based upon those five based upon those five conditions and here's here's the good part or at least some of a good part um you actually get a confirmation of conceptual approval and
and a letter that shows the conditions in it okay oh okay so so so your your note taking is fine but but you'll get missing you'll get you'll get a letter with your conceptual approval you will get the conditions in that conceptual approval satisfy those conditions and
come back for final approval okay okay do I hear a second to Mr Tessa's motion one second Mo motion made by Mr Tes seconded by we're done okay Mr Carol yes Miss bagno yes Miss Wilson stck yes Mr
Stevenson Howard Johnson hide yes Howard Mr hammerin yes Mr Testa yes Mr Becker yes thank you Neil thank you thank you Mr Burger see you next month yeah i'
just like to let you know that you have to resubmit a whole packet before next month's meeting okay so call me and we'll talk about it so just those five additional things that's all okay thank you okay next we have 119 stocked in
place units A and B Howard and delile Hi how are you good evening if you could just please state your name and your Association or your role with the project go ahead I'm I'm Maurice delile we this is my wife Beth we are
the owners of 119b stockt in place okay and uh we're not sure the best way to to approach this um we don't know who you'd like to hear from we also have our our roofing company veterans Roofing here
we're looking to replace the roofs on our property we are in an HOA with another home um 119a one one main so there's an A and A B there's an A and A B yes so so this home is if I don't know
if you're familiar with it or not but this used to be Dr tanon bomb's home in the tanon Bal in the 70s and and 80s and Beyond I believe and and our home is actually his original doctor's office oh thanks um so his the the folks the
Howards own 119a and at some point uh his doctor's office was converted into what is now our home 119b M so that just sort of gives you a sense the homes are actually connected by what used to be a Breezeway
from the home into uh the doctor's office which is now their separate homes uh and the Breezeway is now our laundry room so they are separate properties you can't get from one to the other but this is a joint application it is correct I
mean you each submitted a a an application but yes it is a joint application for both of them I'm holding an A and A B so I assume yes that is correct yes okay thank you okay so what you are requesting yes I believe
is to remove the existing asphalt shingles correct and replace them with similar asphalt shingles as you've shown us with your cut sheets is that correct yes that is correct okay can I ask another uh procedural question you just yeah are
you doing anything to the exterior other than the roofing no no okay and that you may have heard this discussion on the prior application but you I believe you checked F or conceptual here you're here pursuing final you're not going to the Zone planning board for roofing this is
a replacement of a roof yes got it okay so this should be final yeah so one of the questions that we will be asking is do either of these units have evidence of um historic
wood roof shingles the original home under the roof were discovered under two layers of asphalt shingles or Cedar Shake on the large original house 119a 119a ours was built later and has always
been asphalt shingle okay um our roofs uh on the first level interconnect so um doing two different m materials would it's not possible yeah would cause a we met with your roofer at
a review meeting and the ability to do two different roof types simply will not work here functionally because the flashing that be required would not do it do its job exactly right okay so obviously we are hoping to be
able to do the asphalt roof so so if that wasn't clear so so so the guy who has the underlying asph fault shingles is easy yes correct okay yes and and and the question here is what about the guy who has the cedar shake roofy so our
standards for this is a contributing house our standards on page 21 they state if the if there is physical document a his historical evidence of the original roof it is encouraged that the new roof replicates the original in shape line pitch overhangs and materials
we're aware that so functionally even though it's encouraged your testimony is is that that would not be feasible because of the two different roofs would need two different materials that are incompatible is that accurate that is correct okay um our standards also state
that substitute materials closely rep replicating the appearance of the original Roofing may be appropriate if replacement of the historic roofing material in kind is not feasible which we just determined M The Substitute material should closely match the original material shape scale and
texture so with that said is there any desire on your part to use a synthetic wood shake shingle material we not I don't know the answer to that because we haven't explored it we have
not considered that I mean sir can you just uh step up to the mic just identify yourself for the record so Kevin Alberto with veterans Roofing um that was one thing that we were going back and forth I know
from Howard and Robert from Unit A they do not want anything with asphalt um Cedar Shake y they they don't like to look they bought the home with the asphalt shingles on top of it okay so a unit wants asphalt correct yes therefore B unit is also wanting asphalt well we
are so we are B unit and yes we want we all want asph see having two different two different types of B unit never had a an example of no C excuse me excuse me can you repeat your name again you're not Alberto can you spell that please
sir a l b e r t o and yes on the unit B this all ton in Groove so there's no um resembles of Cedar Shake ever being on the home so tongue and groove covered with overlayment asphalt on top so so since we last spoke MH um your roofers were
here you guys weren't able to be in here Tuesday morning we did a little research okay with our state historic preservation office and we are told that since this is a Rehabilitation project not a restoration project that the use of asphalt shingles in this case would
comply excellent with the US Secretary of interior standards and that the asphalt shingle roof replacement on contributing properties with current asphalt shingle roofs the functioning actual roof replacing it with asphalt chingles would have no effect on the
contributing status of that house so that's the research for doing that research I appreciate we WE John did and and it's idual resarch it's not necessarily the position of the the commission at this time but John does very thorough research and wonder and
and there are lots of things that affect whether a property is contributing or not but obviously some Authority here thinks that you're not at risk for um putting asphalt shingles and destroying the contributing status of your of your structure you you do understand though
that it's it's our objective wherever possible of course and we have a contributing structure to do all the things necessary to maintain it as a contributing structure of but but I I I and I and I don't think I've ever seen an AB situation one has one hasn't and
the only it seems to be the only feasible thing to do regardless of John's excellent research is to just to consider that asphalt is so shall we open this up to further discussion anybody else have any comments or I I have a point of order I mean I'm
confused I now have three full applications here one dated February 18th one dated March 7th and I now have exhibit a that you submitted now is this replacing the other two in full that would be that would be finalizing
everything the first one was from when we came here for the subcommittee the second one we sent out um and dropped out the copies we were missing the photos in the data cut sheet and the third one is is the completely packet of what was missing from the first from the second sorry okay so this packet is
replacing the other two correct yes you did not include the tax certification in this final packet so could we just yes move and it's marked as concept was noted however however I do I just like HBC to know I do have a tax
certification from February 18th I think that's fine okay just to let you know I'm going to I'm going to include it on exhibit a okay thank you okay thank you so what you gave us this evening are the final applications for both properties correct with the exception of the tax
another appr form that Judy's going to include from the prior submission yes so that's your submission for correct that's your there's no conceivable way you could have to pay new taxes that certificate and not to be nitpicky but they are marked conceptual so we just have to reflect that as final yeah
except this would be final yeah so are you willing to change that from conceptual to final yes let's do it Judy did you get that no I'm still putting this packet together this isn't exactly what I asked asked you to bring in the additional information not a whole new
application so and are the is the other party here are the Howards here they they were not able to be here are you going to present separately for Howards yes and you have verification to present for them I rece correct yes okay okay so any other questions or comments from
anybody else on the commission for these folks yes just a quick question what what's the age of the the two Unit A and Unit B one with when were they constructed Unit A was under construction in
1933 we are actually not exactly sure when the doctor's office was built we we think the 1970s but we are not sure like like early 80s we're not we not positive when okay the doctor's office I can
since I lived right across yeah you would know I we were it was not there in 70 when we bought the main stay in okay that nether either one of those oh but I know the doctor's office was at it later on it was and the the house a that whole
area was the Stockton Hotel so everything in that four block area happened after the Stockton Hotel got torn down in right about 1911 okay so it would be sometime after that and and it does look like kind of a colonial
revival it does yes yeah yeah any other questions or comments for these folks just just seeing the reason I asked that question was the original building had the evidence of the cedar Shake shingles it's pretty unusual for two compatible structures that are built simultaneously
that was really why as the question that one would have Cedar shake and one would have you know it's extraordinary yeah so I mean there were really true two totally separate eras then it's pretty logical that you could have one that still had
evidence of the cedar Shake underne that's I remember that came up at the uh small group the record's house Tom what was this Dr record's house Dr Ten Ten or tenam yeah oh I was
thinking records okay I've got this in I know exactly okay thanks yeah and are kind of tied together by a one-story segue through there so he didn't have to go out in the rain to get to his lunch and uh yeah right and and they
they converted those to condominiums in about the early 19 I'm sorry 20 20 25 26 27 in that area okay thanks so just one quick reflection for me it's a really
important one um I noticed when you're uh colleagues the roofers walked in they had um boxes with them and I was really hoping that they were gonna be cookies or cupcakes or something but turned out they're just packets of applications so
for future reference not ask somebody whether or not I should bake cookies for the we do we do accept cupcakes and cookies it's it's been known to it's been known to sway our decision so okay all right um so I would love to
hear a motion to approve this if that somebody would like to make that motion just say uh we have a cut sheet here of all the different shingle hours which of those are you planning on using Williamsburg gray it says so on the ISL e says that you said the williamburg oh
the williamg yeah on material checklist yeah that it's about as close to slate and slate would have been a common roofing material at that period of time and for the style as well yes yep MH I'm sorry do we have both in front of us or is there going to be another presentation no there's not another
presentation so this motion would be for both of these properties place a and place B at 119 Stockton do I hear a motion I'll make the motion to approve final hold on John I'm sorry to interrupt I do not have a
tax certification for the other one Al we have to do it separately no they have to they have to supply a tax certification why thought you said you had one I have one for delile I do not have one for Howard it can be a condition of approve it's it's automatically a condition of
approval they also I guess I would like to know if the two sides are going to have the same color roof yes yes okay thank you see at the bottom where it says to sign it this has so just it just has to be conditional upon the tax
certification for the tax collector yes yeah yeah just part of the application except except not at I have to tell you they're really efficient it'll take you about five minutes Chris down so so since these are two different tax Parcels shouldn't it be two
different motions Okay resolution for each property we can do we can do a joint uh approval resolution yeah it's because they're connected the unique nature of this structure I would be okay with Janis seconded K's motion so we have a motion to approve the roof
replacement at this joint application for both place a and place B at 119 Stockton conditional of course on getting the tax form for um one of the two units I think it was B correct it was a a sorry a got it and that motion is same
materials same color you know uniform for both both both properties okay any further discussion Judy Mr Carol yes Miss bagno yes Miss Wilson stck yes Mr Stevenson
yes Mr hammeron yes Mr Testa yes Mr Becker yes thank you thank you thank you so much much we really appreciate it I'd like to tell you a little bit of history of that house i' love to hear A and B uh the owner had had who bought it when I
was still across the street yes uh was a gun dealer from Elmer PA and he his son was in the Marines and he wanted to paint the house bright blue Richard white and fire engine red
for the door so we finally approached him and said how about like a slate blue a canvas white and a little more of a you know a barn red to tone it down a little bit and and I think his wife helped us get him to go along with
that if I can tell you a story in the 1990s I we used to come here all the time for vacation my mom brought my my grandparents down for vacation my grand my grandfather they were staying at the Queen Victoria uh my grandfather kicked his toe against the bed broke his toe
guess what Dr off he went to TS I own the place where my grandfather go and and we didn't know that until after we had purchased it have a good night and good luck with your new roof tabon had an exhibit of Fish Hooks on his wall and
if you asked him he could tell you all the body parts he'd remove those Fish Hooks from I had known do do you know that he's honored on the uh front inside cover of our H really right on our stand
he was one of the original he was one of the original proponents of the historic preservation yeah he that's great thank you folks thank you so much welcome okay moving on to new business
um as I stated at the beginning the Burton submission application is being held into April so if anybody has their Burton submission please give it to Judy okay all right so moving on to 290 Windsor Avenue kimy this is for adding
solar panels good evening all right hello hi you just kimy I'm sorry could you there you go there we go I'm David kimsey my wife Don
hi good evening hi so we're before you um second time the first time was with Katherine Lawrence behind me we redid our house at 290 Windsor and we had um solar panels on it previously and
then you guys approved to put the same solar panels back on again so that's been done and um we want to put in a additional six panels up they're going to go on the same roof
that's that the panels are on now and it's not seen from the street uh it's a shed roof up there so the pitch is not very steep so it's very you know you don't even realize they're there so we're just adding another six
panels it says eight in the application well but we weren't approved for eight right yeah the problem is they come in evaluate how much power you use and like Tesla won't let you put anything less than 10 they won't come in and put
anything less than 10 so we went with another company car but I think if we had eight they would be reew be viewed from the street so said do six so we want with six so we should consider this an application for six yeah yes six
yes okay what's the existing array how how many do you have up there now I think there's eight up up there now okay it's on the picture I think okay it should be yeah so just one quick comment before um are you done with your
presentation great forward it's very detailed gave right um with one exception and that is that the photographs that you gave us don't quite give us views from the street so I went out there um actually a month ago um when I knew this is coming and I would just like to pass these photos around oh
okay this is both from um Windsor and Al the street in the next BL behind your house we we we did submit them from Grant took a photograph from there as well yeah so did we I gave them to I think to I believe those photos indicate quite clearly that not only are the
panels that you're putting on there or have on there now but panels you would be installing are clearly not visible from the street no correct that's what we feel so I I think I could actually get there without the photographs by looking where the other panels are on the new
panel sure I think I only have one set here but I'll pass them to photos that I John doesn't produce exhibit yeah yeah I'll give them to you so just to be clear and make sure that I'm looking at this the right way if you
look at PV sheet pv3 and or pv4 it's those eight modules kind of towards the lower part of the building that we're looking at at yeah except like it's six so how yeah that's so that's my question how I guess we turn them the other way to get three in a
line as opposed to four sets of two you would rotate them 90 degrees right so they would be in alignment with the ones you already have correct yes so that's correct okay yes so I do have one question for you folks um based upon let see which drawing this
is um there are two drawings that I pulled out here well let's ask anybody else you have any other questions while I pull this up no other questions all right so on drawing pv3 and pv4 a which I can show you you submitted I'll give them to you in a moment it indicates um what appears
to be a new inverter panel yes as well as a new um two new powered wall mount units but they but they look like they're ground mounted so I'm a little bit confused by that and I can't tell what the dimensions are because that one photograph that I brought actually you can see the control panels from the
street and I'm just wondering what additional panels and what'll be ground mounted as part of this new installation well there's a I guess they'll need one more inverter which the inverter that's up there now is mounted
on the wall it is and it'll sit next to that and there's also I think a power unit a power wall power wall that could be Power Pro wall mount yes yeah that could be mounted on the wall or it could
be mounted in the basement inside and that's what we prefer in the basement and i' prefer it to be in the basement in the in the inside the house so would we for for instance what's what is it thickness of the of the the Powerball
yeah they're like that thick foot something like that a foot yeah okay yeah I think we would prefer it inside my my only concern with that is are they going to is the Construction office going to allow you to install that piece of equipment below base flood
elevation I'm I'm not sure the answer to that I I don't know either it would be at ground level okay I'm not it's not where where I would put them is at Grand level not it not down at the bottom of
the base not below yeah I don't want it down still might not be high so so ground level though may be below base flight elevation right it's certainly a better my point is it's certainly a better HPC outcome that's just completely out of view I'm just right don't want to create I don't want to plug the hole in the dam
over here and then create a over here I neither do I you know right so we wouldn't make that a condition of approval yeah I want however that's a engineering decision on we don't want to lock you into that in case there is a a base flood elevation
right implication here right right and there are ways to screen some of that out Outdoor Equipment sure there sure we'll do whatever it's an it's an Alleyway between me and Us and Kate Wyatt if they get boxed in a little bit
and yeah swinging lattice door that right or even just one little panel that so when you view it from the street it blocks a line of sight down the building it's so one other comment and that is our um standards for um mechanical and
Utility Equipment state that when you're when you're mounting on page 51 when you're mounting these kinds of units on the sides of of these contributing structures that the mounting hardware and Supply conduit should be finished to match the adjacent surfaces so we can't tell from what you've given us is what
the supply lines that contain the conduit up to the from the from the inverter up to the units on the roof what the path of that conduit is so what you have now goes straight up and disappears into the sopit now runs I believe along the bottom edge
of the sof right at the bottom edge of the s yes okay so it what my point is that when you look at it it's pretty clean and it disappears so all I'm asking is do you know have have any way of knowing yet or can tell us how the new conduit supply lines will be run
from the inverters to to the PV panels I don't know if they'd have to actually run like new condo it they might be able to use the existing condo because they're just tapping into what's already there but I'm not an electrical
engineer so I nor are we I don't know you're talking about split splitting well it's a new inverter so I guess it's a new inverter so if they did have to run new cond conduit it I would imagine I would want it neat in fact I told
these guys that did this work that's why it looks neat I said it has to look you know nice and they I think they did a good job so I mean they if they ran a new condo I imag it be right next to the one that's there parall parallel you
know right about right to it one way to hide things like that it's used quite quite a bit over town is to put them in a a a gutter system that's not really a gutter but it's a gutter pipe which is
frequently seen on many houses coming down just like that so you could feed them through that give them their protection and not make it look like a mechanical uh system running up there right well I think what uh Mr Booker's
referring to is the conduit that's running down the whole length of the building right you say that's underneath of the S yeah it disappears pretty well yeah yeah that's it's yeah and where it comes up it goes vertical piece the vertical piece goes around the corner it's in the back and you don't see it so
they did a neat job with it it's they did I was actually pretty impressed by it see them sometimes where they're just run with no yeah all over the place okay so I think what we're saying here is two potential clarifications to your
application is one is that it's six panels instead of eight correct and the second is that you would in fact be finishing the service lines and Supply conduit in a way that matches the adjacent surface okay so will you send us an
email on that regard well we'll get a letter and then we can send it to our contract or whatever first we have to approve it however okay okay say I'm sorry I'm just concerns to ask these folks about uh no I this this wasn't checked either
final or conceptual but I think we're talking final with conditions would you accept that this is a final submission sure why not right yeah moves you down the path and and and it just it just means that that you
won't have to come back as long as you satisfy conditions that are in the approval right as long as we and they'll told to the office we had one of those conditions and we did the house to about the S it they wanted it run in parallel so we're familiar with that
okay I would like to entertain a motion I'll be happy go ahead Kevin what's your motion approve fin okay do I hear a second second the motion okay motion made by Mr Hammer seconded
by Mr Testa the two clarifications six panels and the finish on the Conduit what was it about the conduit I mean you're not going to get these conditions until you get your resolution at the end of next month's meeting unless someone sends it to you
just so you know you get an approval tonight but you don't get a final approval with all of that in it until the following meeting when it's ratified but I think you can you can think that that the final approval will allow you
to so if we get the conditions from our contractor we can submit them to the office and take it from there anytime you want to submit them and prove that you've you've satisfied them that then you're good okay and it's really it's really very straightforward right it's just that the supply conduit finish
matches what's what's there you can get them teed up you can explain to them what happened tonight the construction permit will be available after next month when the resolution is approved okay thank you okay just you still have to and there's just one one more thing
and that is you might want to consider and though we didn't put it as part of the conditions the location of the inverter inside and high that's what I would like to do so so I mean although you have the approval with conditions that were just stated um putting that
second converter inside and high is a recommendation okay can we say it's a it's a preference a preference okay okay yeah we would like that to be honest with you I mean that would work for us and and I think all you would do is you would just specify what you're really
doing in in in place of U just what we've said here that you've changed it to put the inverter inside okay so Judy shall we do a roll call vote please motion by Mr hammer and seconded by Mr Testa Mr Carol yes Miss
bagno yes Miss Wilson stck yes Mr Stevenson Mr hammeron Mr Testa yes Mr Becker yes thank you thank you folks you thanks for supporting renewable energy we need is it working out well
for you excuse me is it working out well for you so far yeah they finally figur out how to make the UR work that was the problem yeah but you you also have a house where you can put them so people can't see them yeah yeah very we love our you got lucky we've had it for years we love it
put it on my I can't do it on my house get shot I wouldn't even put any pencil okay all right who's here we have uh batty and Gorman at 11:42 Washington Street good evening folks could you please tell us your name and your role
of the project uh Mike Bey and I'm the uh owner y I'm deah Gorman I'm his wife I'm the owner and uh looking forward to having our house renovated we're going to move down here in a few years and likely my mom's going to come with us
and we're really glad to be here Mrs Gman can I get your first name Deborah Deborah okay b o r a h uh Mike and Deborah before we get started I want to tell you that my family rented this house maybe three summers ago and it's been a July there so it's a wonderful
home and uh I look forward to hearing your presentation I also have to state that this is a very important house in my family my wife and I when we first came here we we actually made an offer on this house six years ago yeah and third third person you want to
introduce yourself my name is Katherine lorence I'm the architect um I thought first uh what I would do is um just describe in a nutshell what we're going to do and then
we can go through some of the pertinent uh papers uh in the application so this house was built some somewhere between 1860 and 1880 and over the years a various additions were added to the house on the
side and on the rear and what we'd like to do is to take a rear deck take that off and rebuild a screened in porch with railing and columns that would match the front of the
house and then also we are going to turn the the front parar into mother's bedroom so we need to enlarge uh the living space and we're proposing to push
out the side of the house 8 feet for one story um we are asking for final approval and I will go through the pertinent sections of the uh application
if you look at the page two we're asking for final approval for the addition which would include the screen porch and increasing the size of the living room on the left hand side of the
house page three indicates that everything that we're going to add to this house will be matching existing so the roof the siding the
windows um The Brick around the base of the foundation all of that will match existing and um cther so there isn't a new term but it is asphaltic shingles right yes there are under roof the roof
is existing asphaltic shingles and we're uh I was up in the attic plywood underneath I I I see your certification about the original I thought I thought you actually invented a new term because
you've written as asitic shingles you meant asphal I meant asphaltic yes okay um then on um if we skip a little bit here we can go to page
eight which is the survey and I want to bring to your attention that this is a very long lot uh we have no problems with f or lot coverage for this addition so we are
within all of the rules of the city page nine and page 10 uh indicate the city survey the building is a contributing building and
when we look at the plans it's the first two rooms that I believe are the original portions of the house and then you can see all the additions that were added over over the years if we go to page 11 I'm only going to point out that this
house has been um has a a main twostory house with an attic and it was uh built between 1860 and 1890 if we go to page 12 the photog
phhs these photographs will be added to the architectural drawings so that the contractor is obligated to copy the details of the columns and the front railing because we're going to replicate
that in the rear porch um if we go to page 13 the right side of the house which is an addition we're not touching we're leaving just the way it is
um the next page 14 shows the rear of the house at the top there is an existing deck happened to be the truck was in the way when I took the picture but there's a there's a
deck right behind there that's where we propose to put in a new screened in porch with a balcony that would be accessible from the second floor so we're adding one door we're going to get rid of the bay
window and just make it look uh more traditional to the house um if we go to page 15 the top photograph shows the side of
the house where we're intending to put the addition and then and the bottom photograph I have learned now from experience that I am going to add this Photograph to my drawings so that the
Builder copies any roof details to match existing no more pork chops as I was talking to someone else before about um if we go to page 16 I think everyone is familiar with the beginning
of Washington Street this is the streetcape uh one thing I want to point out and we will see it more clearly in the architectural drawings or the site plan is is that this addition is added towards the back of the house it will
not affect the front elevation of the house so as you drive down Washington Street you're not going to see uh neither the rear screened in porch or the increase the 8 foot bump out on the
left hand side uh 17 and and 18 talk about uh meeting all of the zoning requirements 19 we are going to specify
any new windows that are being replaced will be wood primed for painting uh I'm specifying Marvin Windows uh these windows uh that are in the house current currently do not have any
moons so they're just a single one over one and then the final last page shows the brick veneer that we're going to put at the foundation wall of the new edition uh and I I noticed that you have
a new requirement elevation certificate I've included the elevation certificate on page 21 not that anyone could read it so I blew it up on 22 the house is uh it's a flood zone of
eight the first floor is at 11.5 so not not that we have to but the addition is going to comply but the rest of the house also complies with the free
board so that's the application um the drawings I would suggest that we go to skip the first page that's just zoning requirements we go to page
two page two shows the site plan at the top and also it indicates on the bottom an enlarged plan showing the new deck in the rear and then the hatch lines show
the one story Edition on the left hand side so um it's been pushed back and it's a one-story addition we can skip the next page and if we go to page four of
13 this is the uh existing first floor plan the existing second floor plan other than the second floor other than adding a door which you will see on the proposed plan nothing else is being
changed other than some uh interior upgrades the first floor uh you'll see more clearly on the proposed plan and elevations if we skip all the way to page
eight on the right hand side of the floor plan you show uh I show the new screened in porch on page eight and I also show the addition at the top of the house or on the left side
if you were facing the house this is a one-story Edition that would include a a bathroom for mother and a large kitchen and a bigger dining living area uh on page page
nine we show the door at the rear of the house leading to the deck that would be above the screened in porch and then finally we can skip I think all the other
Pages the last page we would look at would be 12 of 13 the top elevation shows the existing front of the house it shows the addition that had been added in the
1940s and then it shows the rear screened Imports I don't think anyone is going to be able to see the rear screened import from the street but we are being very sensitive and we are using all the um same materials that the
front of the house would be and then if you look at the bottom elevation the bottom elevation shows you the original front of the house on the right side on we're on page
12 the right side shows the addition that had been added in the 1940s and on the left side shows the addition that we're proposing now same size window same wood shutters on the
addition it's a one-story shed at and I think that a a a shed addition would be quite appropriate for this style of house if an addition were added uh and also I don't know that the photographs do it justice but there are
uh bushes and trees in front of this Edition and then finally uh page 13 shows you the side of the addition uh where we have a new window that would match the existing we
have three windows in the dining area that would be the same size they would also be wood and then it shows the porch at the rear Again The Columns the railing and
any of the uh lattice would match the front of the house um and that's that's uh my presentation okay so Kevin how about if we start with you um just a couple of things the the
two windows that are in the front of the new edition and the one on the side of the new edition if I understand the blueprint right that's a rest bathroom right say this could you repeat yourself sure the in the in the proposed addition to the side of the house the window in
the front that faces out onto Washington and the first window on the side look like full windows but that's a bathroom is are you yes we're going to we're going to it's going to be a full window window okay there the one was behind the commode that's why I thought you know surely that can't be a full window it's
got to be a smaller one that's one of my when when I design a house I don't want people to say I know where the bathroom is okay we can get Shades all right the other thing just just as a point is our the way our standards read um when you
have a contributing or a key contributing property an addition to the side of the house generally is not considered appropriate because it affects the streetcape of the house and the visual front of the house which is what a lot of the conditional the um
contributing approval is based on so this is a change to that and you know you are going to affect the streetscape by that side addition so I guess I would just say I mean that is not totally consistent with the standards the rear
addition sounds fine I mean I it's not visible from the street you can't see why anyone would object to that um but that side addition does in fact affect the streetcape appearance which is a key part of the contributing feature of the
house can I comment yes please I i' like to hear what your thought is it I will say I I know the house um you know have walked by it many times um and I I acknowledge the idea that there is pretty good screening in the front with a set of trees and some shrubs and
things like that um nevertheless that is it is changing the the character of the house somewhat so yes go ahead please I'd love to hear it okay um well three things to to one is there is natural uh a natural buffer
already in front of there uh and I believe it's a holly tree so that it would it would uh be a buffer all year long uh secondly I I think that it it's push it's pushed back about 10 or 15 feet
from the street so the first thing that you see is going to be the front of the house you're not going to see this addition because there is the tree behind it and then thirdly if an addition had been added at that period let's say the house is built in
1860 and many times they added sheds or or little little rooms extra as a family grew I think this would be keeping in character particularly since we're using the same material it'll be painted all the same color I don't think that it
affects the streetcape in my humble opinion my my my thought process is that the addition on the right side of the house as you face it was part in effect of how the contributing property was assessed so it it it's old enough that
it fit into the you know the contributing structure the house and I think that's why that doesn't seem to affect the the contributing you know um approach but I'm not sure about the the left side I have to be honest well the
right side was put on before there was any HPC and there was no consideration for uh period appropriateness um so well it's a and the right side is very visible because there's a driveway right whereas the
left side you're right up against uh the lot line and and other trees on the other property it is not uncommon for houses of that vintage to have put on a you know a heavily screened porch or something like that that ran down the
side of the house um I think that that was you know often fairly consistent sometimes those were called invilet porches um so there was there was reasons for them as well the Practical reasons as well as just com comfort and you know those sorts of things
okay I too have problems with the left side of the house one of my questions was going to be to you is it flushed with the front and you've already answered that it's pushed back is it push back in proportion to where the
other side starts could uh no uh the other side is pushed back uh a little bit further okay than this side is uh I can't give you the exact Dimension but oh you don't have to
I was just wondering if they were lined up the same way no but I have trouble with that too um I don't know but you go this is a really poor this is
a really poor uh description and that's why I'm an attorney not an architect but I'm sorry Chris we can't hear you this is a really poor description trying to answer your question but I think the existing addition on the right side lines up with the end of
the Gable or uh you got two windows at the Top If you look at the side view of the of the main part of the structure the existing uh addition begins at the end of that the proposed expansion on the left side
which is proposed tonight begins on the other side somewhere in the middle of the second window at the top it's it's 5' 7 in closer to the street thank you for the translation
arit it's drawing A8 drawing A8 okay thank you actually A7 shows it I think on a so I just want to clar um with regard to additions the idea that it be minimally visible to the rear side yard let's look at the
definition of minimally visible able to be seen but does not call attention to itself or detract from the significant architectural features of the building and from my perspective it qualifies as minimally visible because
it's very low in scale compared to the height of the of the the building it's back an additional 16 14 and a half fet from the front facade of the porch and it certainly is not calling attention to itself can I can I jump in on this okay
I I too find that this addition um and I'm looking at our design standards relating to additions which talk about them being smaller than the historic building clearly clearly is and subordinate and when I look at our side and rear yard additions um the the
examples that I see for appropriate um make this this seems to be one of them particularly because as John just mentioned it doesn't call attention to itself um and it's it's both subordinate smaller it doesn't it doesn't detract from the overall facade of the building
as far as I'm concerned and and it also although we sometimes disagree about minimally visible and what what you get to count on visibility um to me this is minimally visible as well so um I I have no problem with side addition sorry to interrupt I just wanted to clarify so do
you have other questions or comments B no I'd handed it over to Jake Jake all right um regarding on page A1 John for photograph of the from Washington Street the front yes shows a small picket fence going all the way across the front of
the property yes on A2 you have the area where it's Belgium Block is that all new going in there no no what is the purpose of that is is it a driveway or that's that's an existing Belgium block block
that's there okay we're not doing we're not proposing any site work this is this is an existing uh from the survey we just took the survey and blew it up okay so it looks like there's like some trees or something in front that's
not okay all right I don't a question well thanks for the clarification John and and um cine about the about it being farther from the front and um that was a concern and as
you probably heard us talking the Landscaping as an obscuring element is not exactly um well not always reliable but the design is sensitive it is subordinate and it's backing off from
the road so I think it and I can see you need it I mean for the use so also when you come down the stairs you have about two feet before you hit the hit the side wall of the house so
it's somewhat of a hazard of more than one I know the dog is hit his head coming down the stairs oh well no I've said my piece um I'm I'm in agreement with everybody but I'm also studying the
inside plan and I can see it's coming with a very workable area inside for uh mom's place with the bathroom uh the dining kitchen living room it's not a big house this is like a just a nice
little addition to get light coming in on both sides uh and i' I went down there today and just to take another look and that side of the house is very much uh uh uh very much hidden I would have liked to seen both additions start
at the same point just like everybody else on the line but I think I would mess up your interior plan so terribly hard to you know get that one element a little bit more hidden so I I'm I'm happy to vote for it as it is thank
you I have no no questions no Steve yeah just a couple things for me I think I I agree with uh first of all Katherine thank you for your time and your presentation um it's always nice to have you in front of us and you understand our process very well um I
agree with my colleagues that the side um addition is kind of appropriate as far as the way that we review or view our um standards and so I think it lines in there well unfortunately I don't know if
you know this but on page 55 of our design standards the house is listed there as a thing it is to not do uh but that was 1940s and something that we can't go back on uh but it did create a secondary front entry on that on that
side um on that side addition that was added in the 1940s so I'd ask a question and you can say oh that's a decent idea or not a great idea I wonder if there's a way as we build this review these designs if there's a way to reclaim that front entry space so that we have that
front porch that does not have um access to the yard or to you know uh to the street I wonder especially in the in the in the idea that it's a bedroom for um you know a mom you know
I wonder if we should think about that as like an additional at fire you know access point and way kind of you know let's get a little bit closer to what I think our design standards are trying to do and at least demonstrate that that that front porch is Central
Focus but um just a thought from my side does that resonate with the group no no the the door out to the front porch stays in the addition yes it does so architecturally if it stays just like
that Mom has a way to get to her porch uh from her room and the front of the house looks like the front of the house but there's no way there's no stairs yeah that's what I'm yeah would you be willing to add steps to the
front porch yeah okay course you're probably going to have to go get AI Steve in response to your com yeah I think that when the house had originally been renovated or renovated
numerous times at one point they took away the front steps to the front porch and I think it would be an appropriate um design decision to put back those steps on the front
porch so that Not only would it resemble what the original intent of the house was but now Mom can escape and get out to the street when the kids start to get too loud yeah exactly and the dog can too without
hitting his head so yes that is that that's specifically called out in our standards this house as a matter of fact so yeah so that would be wonderful if you guys can do that okay so so wait a minute uh anything else Steve no other than that I I mean the
the D design looks intentional understand what we're trying to do to to make this a multigenerational home um oh I did have one question so large backyard are we planning is there plan I see that there's like are we adding pavers or anything to the backyard area
well um the owners have been working every year to uh transform the backyard and it is now turning into quite an oasis it's beautiful it's wonderful beautiful there there's a gravel path
and SE it's like a Vineyard back there it's it's it's unbelievable how deep it goes uh to the back okay but no formal plan you're not proposing any Landscaping plan we not proposing any landscape that's back to the wetlands it's really quite yes it goes back to
the wetlands Steve anything else no you I I I kind of agreed with Kevin at the beginning with the addition but the more I look at it I'd like the fact it it makes fills the the property out makes
it look like it was always there the only thing I don't get is the deck on the new screened in porch because I that's a big side lot and you see that uh uh from the street walking down the street you're it it's
just I don't know that you're going to see I don't know that you're going to see that deck from the street but I there's we have a porch uhhuh yeah we have the porch there we have the porch with the in screen in porch on the first
floor yeah and I I kind of like the the pitched roof look on if you're going to see it it just very Square looking to me with a railing on top of it um I'm I'm looking at uh
a12 I mean you see this big big Bank of Windows you're going to see the new screen in porch well I mean the only people that are going to see it might be the neighbors if they're in the backyard I don't think anyone's going to see that from the street that's a pretty big
driveway over there pretty big parking area yes it is a big yeah yeah I mean I'd live on the street as well it's it's nice I mean I and I have one put on the side of my house just screened in porch but I I just can't
even imagine the de a deck being on there but uh I don't know it's that's that's my yeah it's a nice place to have a cup of coffee in the morning because you get to see the sun sort of come up kind of yeah if if you're going to have
the porch and there's the ability to put a deck on top for additional views yeah that seems to me a practical thing you have very sharp eyes to be able to see back there okay uh I mean i' I've I've I've always noticed house because I
go buy it 10 times a day uh and and and the first thing you see is the wind you see the window so it automatically pushes you to the back yes but uh yeah that's just uh my thought on you ask me my thought and there there're my I just I just
don't think it's that cozy John is that a good word this architect sure I like the design POS houses so take a different approach to it I really like the deck and the reason I like the deck is you put a roof on it
it would increase the mass of that form and because it's a railing it has a transparency to it so it's almost a diminishment of that mass as it goes from the ground to the sky so I think it actually is atically more pleasing than if it had a roof on it plus you get to
use it so sorry no that's that's fine hey um thank you for keeping that really obscure little window in the back the funky triangular trapezoidal window up on the second floor I do have one
comment though so part of the thing about the addition the addition works great everywhere except for the proposed East Elevation the only reason it doesn't quite work there is because it almost appears now as if that addition
on the back elevation is not distinguishable from the existing house because the back wall is now in perfect alignment and you could fix that if you were to put a piece of trim there but you have a big window in the way so you can't
because the window actually spans the connection between the original pass and the addition so I'm looking at the and I'm thinking all right well I see why they did that but I think it's fixable if you would be willing to slightly relocate in other words you can
put right where right where the the addition joins the main body of of the house all you would need to do is just put separate the window like that so it LO like there was a structural yes piece right there but right now the sink would be
centered that would up your view out of the sink so you'd want to sh the sink the other right follow that well what what I think we would get then really would be three Windows instead of a four B go yep and
just ship them so that the window doesn't act as a a kind of visual Band-Aid or and then bring down the trim yeah so we can see the window is either in the addition or in the existing house or both but not spanning that connection
because clearly that you can't just take the addition away which is what I simply stting you have to be able to sever this is straight out of our standards yes that it should the conditions are acceptable still have theoretically you
take them off and the old house would still be there all right y so we'd have one window by the same move the sink over to Windows do can rearrange I could okay okay you
right with that only other comment and I could be convinced of this so there's something really absolutely beautiful about the full height windows on both the first floor and second floor those 10 Bays that they talk about in the historic report and
the last three and I see why you did it is you made them into a little square so you get a piece of milor on the inside of mud room right right and you have a problem with that I guess maybe go to your wow good
question here's the thing stick to your guns yeah it's so far back so that's and there's so many windows and the windows are really I mean I if if I could spend my clients money I would redo this side of the house too but I can't because it
really does add a nice feature into the house when you're inside the house you have all these windows beautiful faces South I mean in the winter it's so warm it just fills the whole house with light both floor it's amazing actually all right um I would suggest that I am going
to be convinced because this was an addition and it wasn't part of the original House therefore I'm not as critical of it so I'm going to withdraw that comment great you scared them
that's PL problem just give him enough time in complete circle can I one more thing sure um you know just thinking about that I I mean I I've got to say I think to some degree approving this is tinkering with the
designation as a contributing structure I I do I mean whether we think it's obtrusive or it's not obtrusive that's a matter of opinion and I think you know we we have we are flirting with whether this house could could in fact lose its contributing designation and you know I sat and looked at this thing a long time
when I when I saw this in the package I mean one thought I had was well would it make sense to take the front porch and wrap it around to that addition so that it it you know kind of conceals the addition you know it makes it sort of part of the front porch but actually if
you read the standards it says that that you you don't want it to you want it to mimic it not appear to be part of the the contributing property so you know I don't think that necessarily gets where I'm going although I I actually I kind of like that design a little better
making it part of the front porch um I just think it it hides it a little better maybe but but I I I just you're not suggesting that you think that the the proposed addition destroys the contributing I'm not sure okay so you're suggesting it might because it it it
comes down to an opinion as whether it's it's obtrusive too obtrusive or not you know it it's a house that enjoys its designation I think because it is a you know a smaller house that that has a very really nice charm appeal from the street streetscape is important to it
that addition on the right actually is is so far done in the past that it's actually part of the history of the house rather than something new so I think it you know it it it obviously had the contributing status with that addition in it so that would that would be the point I would make that would not
be the case on the other that's a good reason I think that it likely won't jeopardize the contrib reading status of the house as evidenced by the addition to the South that now that it's 80 years since that addition was been put on perfectly acceptable and the
reason why yeah I that's what I said I think that I think the one on the right side of the house what whatever direction that is Southside my point is that the one on the left side will eventually reach that status will this is a folk Victorian house this is not a fancy house it's very simple details there's no brackets there's no frr I
mean that that front porch is about as simple and I would say stoic in a way and and altering that in any way I think would really violate the simpli the simple beauty of this this little piece are also like to interject that by re by
by bringing the steps back to the front which was original you're counterbalancing the idea of putting an addition on the side that will be subordinate because the steps when they
were removed which would be interesting to see if there's any photo documentation of that but um bringing the focal point of the entrance of the house to where it actually
was is one of the more uh significant signs to a passer by that this is this is an old house where you enter the front yes I agree it's I I agree with you about the steps
in the front and I think that uh that's an important addition yeah I agree with that too okay I I I know there are other houses on Washington Street and other streets in K that are this house I mean this this house is a was a commonly
built house um none of them that I can think of have an addition to the side I say that just have one question so I have a question Catherine the front steps that you proposed would they come down the center of the porch and the center Bay or the side bay where the
door is no they would come down uh well lined up with the I got I got a little bit I might have a little bit of a problem but uh the the the front steps would come down uh in front of the door y uh the only problem I might have with
that is is I might have to get a zoning a variant because it might you know it might uh infringe on the setback Zing has changed that ordinance in terms of being able to put steps on porches I think that's correct
right that is correct yes so that likely won't be an issue likely will not to the extent that they're not counted as part of the structure correct if if they're just the steps that go into the into the and you're recre that was changed what about a year ago about a year ago do you have that CHR I there's a little bit of
give for the steps yeah um um depending on a certain width but I I can look that up actually in a second but I had a question about the um AC condenser what what's the plan for that that's currently on the left side in the sidey yard and then where's that going to go
it's in this where it sits now is where the addition is going so where's the AC condenser the the AC would go into to the rear of the house adjacent to the um New Wooden uh screened in porch
mhm so it'll be in I just I'm looking at uh 13 of 13 it looks like there's a lattice enclosure on the side so I wasn't sure just I'm thinking you're talking about setbacks Katherine I was just thinking about where's that going to go in relation to the setbacks
and that's more of his zoning concern but I wanted to just flush it out as we were talking I'm not really sure I understand which I I know that there's an AC unit over there that we're going to move and that's going to go into the rear yard adjacent to the
porch so there's no there's no zoning problem with that I'm not saying there is I was just wondering where that's not likely to give a setback situation give the size of the lot no but it I was just wondering where it's going to go so you it's going to go in it's going to be relocated to the rear is is the plan got
it okay that's all I need to know thank you so there's one other issue and that is there's a dash indication at the southeast no that would be the northeast corner of putting a shower in what's the configuration of that shower
what's it made of what does it look like it's not included in the elevations it's just shown in the plan uh I didn't show the shower uh because I didn't design the shower and uh to be honest with you it was going to be just
the minimal size that you need which is uh 4x6 wood Cedar not painted and um adjacent to the rear screened in
porch so I have a question for you cther since we now have four issues would you be willing to um revise this to a conceptual approval this evening with the four conditions and come back to us for final come
back because the four issues are not in substantial right put the front steps back reconfiguration of the East kitchen window the um shower configuration location and elevation and the location of the uh condensing unit whether it
needs to be screened or not and elev and what and elevated too and elevated yeah and what elevated elevator elev elevated yeah no elevator probably would be uh uh sure I
guess uh I mean we don't have any choice in the matter right I know that so that's where we're discussing this oh sorry just a moment please sidebar so so they're what they're
say Condition it's up to you approve okay there steps Catherine would this have would this and and to your owners would this have a significant implication on the schedule of your project if we were to delay this a month because we could work out an
alternative if we needed to can I sure you consult with your John can I have a sidebar too while they're done uh picking up on Yogi's Point there's a huge porch here and sometimes when we add do an addition we didn't
want the walls to all line up so we'd have a bur break between you that's a good point so you know if this poor if if we just took some of that off no back fo that would be a foundation Dimension masonary Dimension good point
okay you got a problem do you have a problem with that spun around I'm talking about reducing that thing so as you look down there it's over but look at the size of it my God
it's got a table for four seats and a whole another section okay so the question is this um this would not impact our schedule I would prefer to do the drawings and not rush them not show you
a front elevation that I haven't taken time to study uh to look into where the shower is going to go maybe I do want to do a little something different on the shower um and the location of the condenser so we would have revised
drawings for you and and but these are the only items that conceptually we're not going to revisit I just want to understand that we're not going to revisit the issue of it being on the
side and it's we're not let's that's a really it's a good point because technically we're able to do that and I know you've seen us do it but I think you have undertaking that we wouldn't so one other one other minor but not completely insign
one of the ways that we could also mitigate perhaps the impact of that deck because it's in direct alignment with the South Wall just to cover these if if that South right where the deck is if it just moved one foot or to be a masonry Dimension if you're put using a masonry Foundation a foot4 it wouldn't really
impact much at all and it would be it would clearly be an attachment to the back as opposed to continuation of the South elevation leaving plenty of deck too plenty of deck is there a reason the the reason the two aren't
lining up is we don't have enough space I'm trying to I'm trying to give space in front of the stair um if if we were to align oh oh it actually helps you if you were to move the the South Wall of the of the back
deck 1 foot4 in masonry Dimension to the north it would actually shift those steps over a little bit more so that they'd actually hit the paving a little more cleanly than where that Cur are you talking about yep right there y right there move that over no no no
yeah if you just shift that South Wall of the de to theth on here yes that wall was just yes right you could move that over a foot four if you need to make up for that and
would actually ship these stairs over so they might be more cleanly addressed a more straight line here than hitting that curve no problem y just another service okay so that so that would be um
the fifth issue in the in the in the conceptual approval so shall we list them please okay so the first is put the front steps back in the right Bay meaning the further right Bay can I comment on that yes briefly um so
section 52 25-4 the definitions changed 525 D4 it's the definition definition probably okay and building setback line was CH amended a master plan recommendation and one of the things that changed was projections
into the front yard setback by entry stairs and Landing shall be permitted and limited to 5 feet provided that the entry stair and Landing is less than 10 ft wide and the principal building is currently conforming to the current front yard building set back
requirements of the zoning District which that may present an issue for you guys I depending on where this sits but perhaps you can deal with that by way of front yard averaging which I know you're familiar with too in the city they look at I mean we have we have done the
averaging okay we we did that already in anticipation of other things so I will have to well the good the good news is that is this is going to be treated as conceptual approval with the things that John has has mentioned if it does turn
out that you have a problem you're still only in the conceptual stage and you can go where you have to go so Katherine I bring that up because one of the benefits we've talked about tonight is adding that front stair and I talked about earlier like plugging a hole here and creating another one over here with
zoning so it just it's just running it by maybe something to run by Bruce in terms of your front yard averaging and then this change to see if you can fit that stair in and then that gives you a better picture coming back into here of what you want to include in the plan yes
so that that's it just on that I'll go over thank you yes it's a it's a it's a tapestry okay but you did so I'm going to the F okay so the five what we're proposing is uh conceptual approval with the
following five conditions to address front steps to the right further right Bay configuration reconfig uration of the East kitchen window um configuration of the shower including its depiction in elevations the location of the uh air
conditioning condensing unit and moving the back deck South Wall slightly to the north to differentiate it from the existing South elevation yep yep anything else
folks no then what about Kevin's concern that the um oh being a contributing factor with that the concern that the house might lose that as a result of the uh the left
addition if if you believe that you can vote no vote against it what if you believe that that then vote against it okay well I I was asking you yeah I don't believe it will with that that you would so it's my I'm only one vote I know I know that no I don't want to ask
you what you would vote I just want to so you don't see that as a significant enough problem to add it I do not because I don't believe that it violates our standards with the secretary of interior definition of additions that's my opinion I'm not the person doing the architectural assessment okay that would
be my opinion having having stated the five conditions on conditional approval did you make a motion if you don't I will I I move con conceptual approval will be given to the application with the five conditions uh uh that were just
by John great do I hear a second I'll second it okay moved by Mr Tesa seconded by Wilson strick Mr Caroll yes thank you Miss bagno yes Miss
Wilson strick yes Mr Stevenson yes Mr hammerin thank you Mr Testa yes Mr Becker yes I would like to just add that um I do keep a list property reports that are
to be updated and I will put this house on that list once this addition is done and then on architectural historian will re re-evaluate the house and I it's not just I'm not signaling signaling you out or anything but that's just something we
do if a new house is built if a significant addition goes on a house if a house is Dem demoed we then put it in for um a new property report so it'll be reassessed at some point in the future not right away we we'll see we'll see you again
shortly what about this one I guess they no show I guess yes exactly yeah we we put our we put our offer in that house about 12 hours after you guys
congratulations and I just welc practice good that was a really good Land good night okay Catherine it's your show again I am here representing uh
Bob and Mary Beth Drake 17 Broadway 17 Broadway we are asking for final approval um I'm going to do this in a nutshell again uh hopefully and then go through
the uh pertinent pages uh we are here for final approval uh we are looking to add 40 square fet in the rear of the
house uh it is my opinion that you will never see it it will blend in and uh we have the F uh available to us we are renovating a kitchen and that's the purpose of taking
this 40 square ft uh I'm going to start with um the first page number two uh final we're going for final
approval uh page number three I want to point out that uh we're going to use the wood siding to match the existing roof is asphaltic roof we're not even going to disturb the roof with this addition which you will see on
the drawings any suets or wood or sighting would be wood to match and I want to clearly uh point out that we are indicating that uh we are adding two windows and they will be wood
primed um because there I discovered a typo towards the end of the uh packet that I made Katherine sorry to interrupt isn't one of them a salvaged window we we had talked about this project yes no no no in in the floor plan it says
that one of those new window locations is a salvaged window that you're relocating that's no we're we're we're relocating uh there is no window to relocate we're adding two two new windows okay so what it says on the plan here is I I'll find
it but there was one that says was salvaged window which I found interesting I couldn't figure out where you got it from so thank you I will I will uh the what we're resing is the door says it's actually on A7 in the lower right hand corner right at the
um okay it says reinstall salvaged window unit so it's not a salvaged window now okay thank you um so just to get back to the uh uh
application we're above flood so we don't have that to worry about um on 13 has a description of the building it's a it's a crafts craftsman style house two and a half
stories that would be on page 13 uh the page 15 indicates that this is a contributing building uh page 16 and 17 16 shows you the front of the
house and the right side of the house 17 shows you the rear of the house I want you to just sort of keep this picture in your mind because this is where we're adding the addition um if you look at the picture on the the front
of the uh the rear of the house we're adding on the left side of where the porch is we're not changing anything else uh the left view picture nothing changes the
streetcape I think people are familiar with the street it comes it buts right into the beach Avenue Broadway this is uh what is wrong on the U application if we look at page 19 it's not an Anderson window that
we're replacing it's going to be a wood Marvin window as I I stated in the front it will be wood Prime to match so I think that that goes over the materials
uh Mr Beer is ahead of me on the drawings but I wanted to uh bring your attention to page A2 in the drawings A2 the first floor plan
indicates the existing layout of the house as you can see on the bottom bot where it says existing first floor plan and I have highlighted on mine in an orange this is the area where the
porch sort of wraps around a little bit this is the area the 40 square ft that we want to take over it in no way impacts in my opinion the rear view of the house the
porch is still usable if we go to page A5 you can see the South elevation and we'll come back to that but you can see the South elevation when we look at the
proposed I don't think that there's going to be any um a notice of of the addition added A6 is the rear existing elevation so you we may go back and forth between
the two um A7 again it's what what we're doing is is we're taking a little portion of that that porch to include into the new
kitchen uh then I would direct you to uh I guess the elevation where did that go FL sheet sorry A99 so if you need to toggle between the
two uh I would understand but A9 is the rear elevation uh number two we still have the rear porch but this is where I'm adding a new window I I I really don't think that we
can uh reuse any existing window might actually there isn't a window there there's a door there so that's a incorrect statement on my drawings um then the partial South elevation the addition is going under
the roof of the porch certainly we're going to reinforce the roof we're going to put insulation in this addition uh but the roof is going to remain the same so we're not changing the roof at all
and um that's it okay you want to go around the room or just offer comments and questions relatively straightforward any comments or questions anybody has everyone's
tired it's just it's just that you're work your work is so good uh you got a problem with that c I know I don't normally clap from this side of the table so are are you going
to put that comment and spout off too you a motion for approval of this as a final approval M will someone else please make it by Mr I'll second seconded
by Mr Carol yes Miss bagno yes Miss Wilson strick yes Mr Stevenson Mr hammeron yes Mr Testa yes Mr Becker yes thank you thank you Katherine thank you so we have nobody in the audience this evening
but is there any public comment yes not okay um moving on to just the three minor discussion items you may recall that we had sent a a proposed new ordinance to the planning board regarding the storage off Street Storage of trailers Jake you the one who with
the primary author of this office I did a I know I did a lot of research on it originally but uh it wasn't the the author of I think actually Chris did it so this is this apparently will be on the agenda at the April 25th meeting is that right no March 25th meeting wait a
minute a week from tomorrow tomorrow whatever date that is 18 25th uh you just jumped them up March 25th yeah planning wordss March 25th right so I'm planning is it so late we're confused about so my only question is I'm going
to go ahead and go to that meeting um but I would like to invite you to join me if you would be able to and maybe even present this if you'd like sure would you like to do that yeah sure okay um just so you know the city engineer always reviews these ordinances to see
whether they're consistent or not in his opinion okay um with the master plan he assessed this as um may find the proposed changes are consistent with the master plan as proposed and is consistent with the stated goals objectives blah blah blah so it sounds like this should not be much of a
challenge but of course it'll get discussed by yeah and and our main concern was just Street skate we didn't want to have thanks trailers parked on somebody's lawn or on the in front of the front of the building exactly and it's it's well written and that that's the that's F's review of the um
consistency when is that again John um 6:30 next Tuesday 25th here in this room I guess right okay um next is the historic district map and why did we why are we calling this a
special meeting do we need a special meeting for that Chris well first of all what do we intend to do all right so Chris you want to give us an update on that Chris sent me a letter this week that requires some work by me and then we want to give it to everybody to take a look at but yeah
um the process to to effectuate any change to the historic map starts here um and this some members of the board have already kind of been a part of that vote to vote on what the the lines would be to to
kind of like eliminate some of the teeth that are sticking out and eliminate the you know one property being in the district and then a string of them not and then you know the appearance and you know kind of uh SP zoning yeah it's not spot it's not
technically spot zoning but it's what looks like it looks it looks like it just looks out of place you have one property that's subject to a range of regulations other's not so uh but procedurally that starts here with a vote you vote on the map and then that goes to the planning board they have a
hearing they do a publication and then they have their own hearing on that and they review for consistency with the master plan but they also open the floor to have a hearing and if it gets past that stage then it goes to city council and they would adopt the map as part of
the zoning structure first reading publication second reading that's two Council meetings that's a lot of public meetings to get to you know updating the map one of the uh um we're not updating
the zoning map we're updating the local historic district so um if you were updating the zoning map you there was there's a pretty robust publication requirement I can see a reason why that's not the case and it's not in our
code necessarily that that's the process that we go through but one of the recommendations that came from the planning board when this concept was last floated was well did you let anybody know and and the the technical answer to that may
be that you don't have to it's not it's not a requirement in the code um I don't necessarily think it's a requirement under the municipal land use law but even if you come to that conclusion you may view the answer to that of well why don't we and just avoid you know um and
evangelize the idea of being in the district as not such a bad thing and the people that may be included would be included as non-rib which doesn't mean that you can't do anything to the building it means you got to maybe use this material and not that but as this board's familiar a lot
of that stuff can get approved in review it doesn't hold up projects um May mean you have to come here in some capacity but it's it's something that people can live with it's not the worst thing in the world and and in fact it probably contributes to a lot of the the general like positive appearance of the town and
how people view Kate may as distinct from other Shore towns so even though you technically don't need to give that notice you may view this as an opportunity to get out in front of that and Juan addressed the planning board's recommendation that
that be done and do it at the ground floor where the questions about what does this mean to be are best answered by this board not other people that it's going up the line it's not best answered by city council all due respect it's not it's not best answered by the planning
board this board is the one that does the work this is the one that understands the standards it understands what it means to the city and is in the best position collectively to answer questions about what is this going to mean to me as a property owner and the answer can be it's not going to be that
bad and you may find that you you're able to work with us as many people do on a you know monthly basis and bi-weekly basis at some of these review committee meetings so the process that I have suggested um
is to provide that notice that some may view uh as definitely recommended but probably not required but get that notice out at at step before step one so we may have reviewed a map before let's
start it over let's let's set a meeting a special meeting for review of that map give the people uh that will be directly affected by that a a direct notice of that and invite them not command them invite them to come to that meeting and
have their questions answered and the notice uh I suggested include the entire process to show them that if you have questions at this stage this is the best spot to come get you know come see what the map is ask your questions but
understand that there's a step-by-step process in public at multiple meetings and if you have questions or comments or if you miss a meeting there's going to be opport unities to be a part of that process and um to put that out front so that people understand that um and they understand what it takes it's not just
going to get past here and be effective we have to go through this process so but as part of that too I think um John and I had discussed including uh not just oh by the way here's a meeting and you know Municipal Lane law use law that um you
know technical stuff but give them uh you know as best we can a summary of what that may mean on boots on the ground what does it mean to be part of the HPC as a property owner yeah so it be so Chris did a really nice job here outlining this process as the first half
of the letter this is what's being proposed as the process second half of the letter is basically to all the affected parties how does this affect you and and I mean none of the properties are contributing parties so it doesn't affect them a lot the although we've approached this topic
many times and we've seem to have had a number of votes on a number of men Maps the the strategy I think for all of us ought to ought to be to tee this up in a way that maximizes its chances for getting passed and whether that be through the planning board and city
council there's no better way to start than to start completely which is which is what we're proposing to do now so that's the special meeting and and that makes good sense because nobody can say they weren't told nobody can say they weren't it wasn't explained to them U they can always go somewhere else and
and and and go one of later steps but why not have them on the first step and be on board with us and maybe they might even support us so the letter is an invitation and it's an invitation to come to a special meeting of HPC where we are we are discussing and
Fielding questions and talking about the changes to the historic district map right we do have we will decide at that meeting hopefully they passed a resolution with the map on it we did M so you would include that in the letter
with the map who passed should y yes I would I would suggest we we can say yes we've we've passed uh the map but we are still at the start of this process um this is the currently um how would you
word that this is the currently um recommended map from HPC because we're the only ones that voted on it right yes do you remember our conversation with all change he seemed to think it was need to
be noticed so he might want to talk it is this would be a notice certifi right and and this is you know this is what we had discussed is is look I the worst is someone that's going to be involved at the beginning and the end if this gets to council the
last thing I want to say at a council meeting at the end of this process if somebody comes and says well I didn't know about this I don't I don't want be saying uh well you weren't legally required it's like flip well they had that at the planning board so we want to
get in front of it a little bit more yeah and it's not it's not such a bad thing and we can get out front of this and and one thing I know it's like kind of the million dooll question is that the naal you know the national register looks at the entire city as being a
National Historic Landmark and we're one of the few places that enjoys that designation so where's the distinction between the whole city and our designated historic area the map that's the map that's
exactly what's on that map but I mean but the the the national register doesn't say that historic district is it says the entire city of K May and is a National Historic Landmark as a whole as a district but within within the we have
a historic district exactly which which which specifies Jake as you know all the things we do for contributing properties and but I mean a lot of towns have a designated historic district but they don't have that the whole city presumably if you come to the meeting
someone can explain that right and and why we're really here to do a district map even though the whole city is a national historic land it it either is or it isn't right so so this is really nice so Chris has drafted the first part of this letter so this is basically what
and then the next part that I'll be doing is why and then lastly how will it affect you right so good question is when do we what's what do we think our time frame is for having this special meeting I I by the time you get the letters because
you're what's what's the certifi certified letters fairly long notice fairly yeah so I'm not talking about this month by any means I think this is probably you know no sooner than May what's what's the requirement in terms of early May 10 10 what I mean 10 days
notice give at least 10 days oh yeah a lot more I think yeah I I would want to give more actually 30 I would less than 10 all right so guys so so we could be talking B yeah so what what so this
would be all of us it would be a special meeting and could it happen do it have to be a separate time frame from this meeting could happen before yeah people to attend right I would suggest that it not be our regular meeting okay don't even try to tether it to that because
five people could show up or the whole neighborhood could okay I I think also if we make it a special meeting it attaches the importance that we want it to have so would would it would a Tuesday evening generally be good for folks if we start thinking about dates well for some
people it would Council meetings oh Monday I'm sorry Monday sorry Monday Monday Mondays are our days so yeah so I'm thinking maybe third early to miday is like right before Memorial Day let's see if we can get this pumped out
or strategically that a mistake we should wait until people are in town say that again Kevin okay some sometimes it makes a difference but may is a pretty I mean people are starting to be in here right so if you if you have a ownership interest in a house you're you're
generally going to be here in May so why don't we target miday let's say the second what our meetings are usually the second Tuesday 12 our meeting is the 19th 19th yeah so the Monday before that is the 12th I can't make that night I can't but you know
there's other people okay so maybe we do it after so then that would be why don't we do how long do you want it to be job I think that meeting well it depends on how many folks show up could be long it could be 5 minutes it could be 5 hours right I was thinking
like four to six people a lot of people are out of work and they come and then go out to dinner afterwards yeah but let's let's pick a day first before we pick a time right first um so are are you traveling I don't think that's enough time to get
the letters out May fth is pretty tight for me I'm part-time commitment that night I can't change what about like 86 of them something like that the 19th was bad the 19th is our you're our meeting
you're looking at June John sorry you're looking June because 26 is Memorial Day all right let's look at June maybe the first first Monday in June the second that's June 2nd June 2 all right so I we also have to we have to ask the clerk's
office if the room's available soend by June 9th we could do the 9th because then our meeting would be the 16th do the 23rd yeah it would be really nice if we could do this before our meeting that month right then then we can act on it at that's what I'm thinking yeah that's
so want to Target is the best thing I've heard so far we go yeah well I got I got okay so that means Judy you and I can talk about when you need the letter from Chris and I to be able to make all that happen you get the certified letters out some of us
would like to see that I know on a second it's the our meeting get it done and then um we'll get the draft Yeah we has to be advertised letters have to go
out okay 80 some so John are we doing June 9th um yes so right now guys as long as as long as the room's available so guys could you all please put on your calendars could you save June 9th for
this meeting let's say 4 to 6 on June 99th sounds good and we'll verify that because Judy has to make sure the room's available and what Chris and I will do is we'll get this letter done within the next two weeks is and get it out to you for all of you to look at and give you a few days to get back to us about any
comments or edits how's that sound do you want a red line copy you can just K I want purple like purple all right all right good great sounds sa all right lastly um
you may recall that at the end of the alignment Workshop we talked about having another one but this would be to identify activities that we want to prioritize over the next two years specifically the remainder of 2025 and one of them of course is this Historic
District map but there's other things that are are merging and I asked all of you if you would make a list of the things that you think are really important for us to be addressing so that we can have a meeting to discuss all that and a line around what are the outcomes we're seeking and then maybe even road map of process for how we're
going to get there and that would be probably another 4-Hour meeting I will provide Mandy Subs you really know the way to our hearts don't you yeah Pepper's on the side Pepper's on the side so I don't
know when that's going to be I think we ought to focus maybe on get this getting this District map done um and and I'm thinking this is probably a July is thing maybe even August when it's a little kind of hot hot yeah Yogi that great all right guys um any other
comments questions thoughts to discuss before we adjourn the meeting I just wanted to let the board know that on March 27th we the HPC will be arguing the appeal of that Hugh Street pool application that came in a few months
ago so um there's no testimony or anything like that but the applicant did end up appealing so I'll be arguing that on behalf of the HPC before with the Zoning Board in this room March 27th um it'll be on live stream if you want to watch and I'll certainly update
everybody at at the next meeting about the outcome is there any advantage to any of us being present at that meeting um there's not going to be any like kind of speaking part of that but um certainly if you're interested and want to monitor it you're more than welcome to come I'm sorry you said it was 27
March 27 zoning yeah it's uh Kevin I think I think they meet at I think it's at 7 let me March 27th right yeah I don't want to give you the wrong time while Chris is looking that up
anybody else have any other thoughts or questions comments before we 9 no on the 27th Chris is looking it up it's the zoning it's at 6: PM is when the zoning board starts that's with zoning
yeah oh John yes uh we also received this um in our packet is there one particular article we should read or no I saw that too and I thought why did we what is that that's a Judy Judy tell us about
this uh this oh um yeah I just included that I thought you might like to um review some of the projects that are going on nationally there's a couple of African-American projects that I thought were kind of interesting and that is a a National Historic preservation conference that was I think it was was
it Texas so it's just for your information so one comments about Saturday yes so one other comment guys um I would strongly encourage all of you if you can to make one or both days of the June 4th and fifth um State historic
preservation office in annual Workshop there were four of us who went to uh actually the first half of the day was all legal stuff very interesting believe it or not you mess with HP yeah it was a good day no it was a good day we learned a
lot I thought it was really I mean Judy it was really good don't you think yeah yeah aside from some of the food snafus and things yeah and I and I think that we we were probably about 20% of the topics in the
positive light Kate May was really highlighted it was wonderful to be there all theal stuff they went through national state Stu I think we're actually already in the right place probably in 80% of the stuff at least we
have an answer for the rest you know and I to me it felt good to be kind of a Feeling I I I think we you know wi without without feeling in any way Superior we just felt comfortable it
was a it was a feeling that we're we're we're definitely following the right tracks to the uh to the goal so guys I'm going to strongly recommend something else in fact if you'd like me to I'll I'll get copies of this for everybody this is an extraordinarily important document the municipal land use law and
it defines exactly what we're supposed to be doing and there are sections 107 through 112 that are directly related to our work I really would like to make sure if I could mandate it i' I'd give you this a homework assignment but this is this is important stuff I think we
can find it you can find it yeah um and interestingly this open public meetings Act is also quite interesting less interesting than the this one but so they want us to use Robert's Rule of Order and all that sort of business can we can that be sent to us yeah I'd be
happy to scan this and send it to you great yeah came out of the session Kevin on Tuesday Kevin could you put your mic on thank you I guess one of these days I'll remember that um on Tuesday we have a project coming up and
it's one that the the the um applicant has has been cited by our code enforcement people they're coming in with the plan to do some updating to the to the site but it's minimal um they're not attending at least yet to safety
issues as well as what I'll call aesthetic you know appearance issues um and and I asked the the attorney I gave you the you know her card I said you know does do hpcs have policing powers and the reason I asked that is it's clear that they there's some some level
of policing power that the hpcs do have under article four of the Constitution and under the appropriate equivalent in the state constitution so the the the reason I bring this up is I think one of the things we're going to we're going to
probably have in the conversation with the applicant on Tuesday is you're not going far enough this is not acceptable and furthermore you need to do something with your facility it's an isore it is it's got you know additional safety issues that need to be addressed just
because they're part of a citation already issued to you and there are others that clearly affect the appearance of the of the site uh the functionality of the site the you know the that are inconsistent with our standards for our historic district and
so on and so forth and you know I want to hear your plan for for doing this you know kind of a thing um and I and I guess I believe that that so I asked her you know do we have that kind of authority to you know to bring this kind of a matter up and and force an answer
if you will and she saidou know if you'd have asked me that a decade ago I'd have said no today I'd have said yes and the reason is that it's become clear through case law and through other things that yes you do have the ability to to go in and require somebody to bring a place up to a better standard of appearance and I
think that's important to to understand and know that first of all if you agree with that I mean it's very important that you agree with that or not um because in turn then it's important the city council understand and know that and I don't don't think this group wants to trigger off a fight necessarily but I
think it's important that we we take a look at some of the places that you know that that are on that um Quality of Life task force for instance and some other things and and play a role in you know in in really encouraging requiring the you
know the the individual to to you know get in the game Kevin are you saying that this is an application coming in it has not been filed yet this is an application it's already fil it's on our calendar now to be seen by the Review Committee yeah and it's and it doesn't
go anywhere near far enough to cleaning up that property yeah it's for what for the record it's the beach theater property oh without getting into a particular uh property I will say that there's definitely some statutory Provisions
particularly in New Jersey that support um local ordinance provisions for deteriorating properties and giving a broad range of powers you know things like going in and fixing it yourself if you need to um and there but there's all
sorts of notice Provisions um as part of that but the HPC construction and Zoning like those I see those from an initial standpoint as part of the same fabric I agree and but leaving the enforcement to the you know making those decisions
what's appropriate what's not and then you know but we have we took the step of having a uh HBC compliance officer specific for that those types of issues there's all sorts of things you can do um the best thing to do is to if you see
a gap in the code to you know fill it in so that's that's what I would say about that but yeah largely I agree with that okay you're also working on a uh demolition by neglect ordinance because we don't have one right um well I think there's an opportunity for strength strengthening the city code you know to
provide some options there if if the city needs that that has nothing to do with us right no not necessarily good could might depending on what happens to a property yeah yeah okay good all right any other comments folks Warr Warren
cookman said in the list of seven properties I was uh before he left it he thought fell into that category yeah that uh and and and I know from code enforcement that I'm dealing with on things like being a the Harbor Master uh
there's an awful lot of steps you got to go through before you can do much of anything and that's what the code enforcement is running into and that's what we'd run into there but you you got to start yeah yeah twice do we have a motion somebody make
a motion you can say I moved okay yeah thank you e e