I would like to call to order City of Cape May's Historic Preservation Commission. It is now 6 o'clock on the 19th of May. Greetings everybody. Thanks for attending this evening. In compliance with the Open
Public Meetings Act of 1975, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided. If any member has reason to believe that this meeting is being held in violation of this act, they should state so at this time hearing none. Shall you join us
with the pledge of allegiance, please? Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Have a roll call, please. Judy. Mr. Carol. Yes. Miss Wilson Strick. Yes. Mr. Stevenson, here. Mr. Hamron, here. Mr. Curts, here. Mr. Chester here. Mr. Becker here. Thank
you. So Judy earlier or I guess late last week sent out to everybody a copy of the minutes from our April 21st meeting. Has everybody had a chance to review those? If so, could we entertain a motion to
approve them, please? So moved. Second. Moved by Mr. Tessa, seconded by Mr. Stevenson. Is that correct? Mhm. Yes. Yes. Roll call, please. Judy. Mr. Carol. Yes. Miss Wilson Strick. Yes. Mr.
Stevenson. Yes. Mr. Hammer? Yes. Mr. Ta? Yes. Mr. Curts? Yes. Mr. Becker? Yes. Thank you. We have one bill that is called for payment um to our solicitor. Um that was also in the packet. So, everybody had a chance to review that.
I'd like to entertain a motion to approve the payment of that bill. I'll move. Second. Moved by Mr. Carol, seconded by Mr. Hamron. Judy. Mr. Carol. Yes. Miss Wilson Strick. Yes. Mr. Stevenson. Yes. Mr.
Hammer. Yes. Mr. Ta. Yes. Mr. Curts. Mr. Becker. Yes. Thank you. There were a number of resolutions that were also included in that packet. Gorman at 1142 Washington
Street. Resolution 2025-13. 230 Grant Street, resolution 202514, Taylor Gordon, 1921 Washington Street, resolution 202515, Thompson at 829 Kierney,
resolution 2025-16, Reinert at 216 Perry Street, resolution 2025-17 and Carlson Glazer, 820 SU Avenue, resolution 2025-18. resolution from someone please to
approve those resolutions or ratify those resolutions. I'll make the motion to approve the the foregoing resolutions. Moved by Mr. Tusa, second by Miss Wilson Strick. Judy, Mr. Carol, yes. Miss Wilson Strick. Yes. Mr.
Stevenson. Yes. With the exception of 216 Perry. Thank you. Mr. Hammer. Yes. Yes. Mr. Ta. Yes, Mr. Curts. Yes, Mr.
Becker. Yes. Thank you. And finally, uh, to conclude our introductory business here, there are 24 applications that were approved in review, would like to entertain an emotion, a motion to approve those and ratify them. I will
make that motion. Okay. Moved by me. I'll second. Okay. Moved by Mr. Carol, seconded by Ms. Wilson. Steric. Judy, please. Mr. Mr. Carol, yes. Miss Wilson Strick, yes. Mr. Stevenson, yes. Mr. Hammerin, yes. With the exception of
Sheffer, 1011 Washington Street. I recuse on that one. Thank you, Mr. Curts. Yes, Mr. Ta. Yes, Mr. Becker. Yes, with the exception also of Sheffer at 101 Washington Street. I must abstain. Thank you.
Okay. So, as most of you know, we have had since the beginning of the year two full commission alignment workshops outside of these Monday night meetings. And at the first of those, we aligned around a a clear statement around what
is the core purpose of HPC's work. So, Mr. Stevenson, would you please read that for us? Okay. The purpose of the AP HPC's work is to serve as a catalyst for guiding and valuing Cape May's historical, cultural,
and natural resources in ways that inspire and unite our community to steward these resources for the benefit of all so that present and future generations continue to express the unique quality of life we share in this
place we love. Thank you. So, now on to our old business. Uh, the first project is Heathcoat at 1283 Lafayette Street. Pam, if you could please just state your name and your
role on the project, please. Good evening again. I'm Pam Fine. I am the project architect and I am here on behalf of my clients from 1283 Lafayette Street, the Heath Coats. Um I was here last month.
Uh the application was tabled for a few different changes requested and so I submitted a new packet with those changes included. I can run through it if you want. I think it may be unnecessary. The reason I would say that is because what Pamela had submitted to
us was the full package in response to what we had requested of her and we reviewed it in in the review committee and found it thorough and acceptable. So if unless anybody has any other comments, I would like to either hear those or entertain a motion to approve
this application. I I've no further comments. So I'll make the motion to grant final approval to the application. I'll second. Moved by Mr. Tusa, seconded by Mr. Curts. Judy, roll call, please. Mr. Carol, yes. Miss Wilson Strick, yes.
Mr. Stevenson, yes. Mr. Hammer, yes. Mr. Curts, yes. Mr. Ta, yes. Mr. Becker, yes. Thank you. Thank you. That may have been your shortest presentation in the history. That was a record. I appreciate it. It will go down as one of Even though I love talking.
Does that make up for your three-hour wait at the last meeting? Yeah. No, I mean, hey, you know, it is what it is. You guys have an easy application and a a list of applications tonight, so I'm glad. So, make the next one just as easy for Yes, I will. I aim to. Thank you
very much. Thank you. Moving on. Thanks, Pam. Um, next order of business is Burton at 302 Howard Street. If you two gentlemen could please state your name and your role on the project. My name is Kevin Oan. I'm the project
manager at Fenwick Architects. My name is John Burton. I'm the owner of 302 Howard Street. Thank you. Please proceed. Um Mr. Burton was here last month's meeting and received conceptual approval for this project at
um 302 Howard. It's a non-contributing building and the project is is to lift the house and add um to a story and a half. It's a currently a one-story house. Uh there was a couple comments at the meeting
that we have addressed. Uh first uh we did get a zoning approval from Bruce Britain on Friday the 16th. Um and then um on the front facade we added shutters on the new windows and on the side
facades we uh took the double windows in the in the attic story and separated them to be two individual windows on each side. And then the third item was we added brackets on the existing front porch. That's it. Pretty
straightforward. Okay. So, uh, I I'm not convinced we need to go around the room here, um, given that it seems pretty straightforward, but do any of the folks here on the commission have any comments for this afternoon or questions?
I just like to say looking at the house next to you now and what you've done and that whole street, I think you've made really handsome improvals that will really help that house to fit in. Thank you. Yeah. And thank you for that. That's great cooperation. Yeah. You you
may be setting a trend in lifting houses on on the street, particularly inspiration to the one next to you. Um and uh and I thank you for following through from your conceptual approval to provide all the things that you were asked to do and that you said you would
do. Glad to. Any other comments? Looks good. I make a motion to approve the application as presented. Final approval. Final approval. Second. So moved by Mr. Carroll. The motion is
to grant final approval as presented. Seconded by Mr. Stevenson. Judy. Roll call, please. Mr. Carol, yes. Miss Wilson Strick, yes. Mr. Stevenson, Mr. Hammer, yes. Mr. Curts, yes. Mr. Ta,
yes. Mr. Becker, yes. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. That was short and sweet. That's the second fastest. You guys are getting out early tonight. You never know. Yeah. Okay, moving on to new business. Is there a representative here for Terruski
at 925? Yes. 4G. Good evening. If you could please state your name and your role in the project. My name is Donald P. Terroski, Senior. I'm the owner of the property with my wife and my son and his his wife. Okay. The floor is yours, Mr. Terruski. Well,
we're proposing a new deck on um I have a hand up, too. Excuse me, folks. I have to recuse myself. I'm within 200 feet of that the neighborhood. Yeah. Really? You can't hear him?
No, I can't. I'm sorry. No, I can't. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. Extra one, please. So, I can give it to our secretary. Thank you. I got John.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Just for the record, we'll call this A1. It's two pages. You submitted 27 pages previously. Okay. And uh your secretary said I should
uh get get the dimensions of all the the uh wood. Uh it's going to be a wooden deck. Uh previously we we said it was going to be a composite deck and and then we just
changed that. No doubt about it because um the deck is 15 by 15 with a roof. Okay. The the uh roof on our house was replaced in 2021. We're going to match that and
match the brand and the color on that roof. Um we bought the property in 2018. Since then, we did a lot of things. We did a fence and a barn, paved the
driveway, we replaced uh uh the barn, uh painted the whole house and the driveway in 2022. We have a really great backyard, but no shade. Uh and that's what we
want. Uh 1515 deck. Uh and uh I think it's pretty simple. Uh if you have any questions, please. Yeah. So on this one, I would like to go around the room. Okay. And if we could start with
uh Mr. Hamron, please. So just a a quick comment. the generally speaking when when an addition is put onto a contributing property, we try to keep the sides of the house straight rather than having anything bump out to the sides. Um, this looks to me like it
maybe bumps out of all of them about two feet. Not Yeah, three feet. But the uh we had the driveway paved and and then uh it was a sidewalk in there, so we shut it out three feet. Is there Is is
the project compromised in your mind if you pulled that back with three feet to get it flush with the side of the house? No. So I I wanted to ask a clarification about that. Thank you, Kevin. Just not to interrupt, but on your application it
says 17 ft by 15 and you just said 15 by 15. So what what are the dimensions? Your application just says 17 by 15. Yeah. Yeah. We enlarged it by that that uh 17 was out there. So we'll
do 15 by 15. Well, that that was my question. Is the 17t dimension the one perpendicular to the sidewall of the house? Hold on. My son did he does these drawings and he's away now and and he did a really nice job too. I did first while you're
doing that I just wanted to say this is one of the few applications that actually came to us with the principles we're supposed to apply actually set forth in the filing. So really for us this is a very interesting way to to do the application. Actually I've answered my own question. If you if you look at
page 24 the 17oot dimension is parallel. That's right. To the side of the house. So if you were to pull it back two feet, that means the dimensions would be 13 by 17. Is that acceptable to you? Yes. Kevin, more questions.
So can I ask Kevin on page 13, is that the what you were referring to? Yeah. Okay. Right. The blue part 12 and 13. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We debated on that for a while too. I
just found the application a little confusing and that the the CAD drawings are very well done but they seem to contradict one another. If I look at like page 19 versus page 20 that one it look on page 20 it seems like it's flush with
the existing shutout and then on 19 it looks like it comes out further and in that we were only provided with an existing site plan. Perhaps a proposed site plan would have given us a better look to see how far it really sticks
out. You kind of see that on 13, right? 13 and and 12 and 13. That's a 2D direct head-on look at the building rendering. And I think what Kevin's comment was,
right, if we reduce it by two feet, we should get rid of that that blue should essentially be eliminated. That's right. So it would be flush with the current side setback. Yeah. So from the front, you wouldn't see you wouldn't see the addition. You're going to see it from the side, but not to the front. Right.
And and just to point out one other thing, there's a chimney there in the existing house and that actually adds a little bit more to the, you know, to the screening effect. So that was my only comment. Thank you, Janice. Um I I think that addresses the
only reservation I would have. Thank you. I I find myself in the same position as Janice. My concern was the um the um extrusion or intrusion of that piece. But since you've agreed to make it a 13 foot um extension that makes it
level with the front view of the house, it doesn't protrude. It it doesn't raise questions that might have um called into question whether or not we could do this for a contributed. So so that my my questions have unanswered. Okay. It's a
13 foot um proposed deck. Thank you, Tom. Whatever it is, the uh we'll measure the side of the house will be So, you pull it back to align with the bump out. Whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm sorry. The what we
what we don't want to see is a protrusion beyond the side of the house, right? And whatever it is that you can do to make it not protrude, two or three, we don't know. Yeah. I'll measure it. It actually is shown on the survey. I think this this is page five of the
submittal. I think it shows a 42.5 foot setback to the current side of the building so that if if the idea is to make that flush, you would just carry that through. Yep. Okay.
I just wondered if there was any more specificity regarding the type of wood that you're going to have on the decking and as far as the railings. Cedar cedar cedar paint and cedar or stained cedar. See, not not that you're going to do
this with us much. Your your materials sheet is is is perfectly compliant when you say wood, but if you tell us what kind of wood it is, then we don't have to ask you those questions. Any others? Mr. Ta. Uh, no. Thank you. Mr. Carol, when you have to do this many
pages to complete something, there's bound to be some things wrong. Uh, on page 12, it shows this building to have windows on the ground floor and the top. I assume that is
uh nothing to do with what you're really trying to do. Wait, wait, windows. Yeah, the the blue the blue that you have on on page 12 that shows essentially a not only patrun but a kind of a porch with
windows. Actually, it doesn't. Does it? No. This these are actually railings and what you're seeing is the penetration through. You're seeing the railing over there. Ostensibly, it does appear to be windows, but it's not. Yeah. Yeah. Well, your eyes don't work. Tom and I withdraw
that comment. That's right. that I don't know what but it it's it's you could actually Arkansas. It's a bit of hallucination we get. Well, in this picture uh the white box that I'm seeing I take it would be an outdoor shower. Outdoor shower. Okay. And that would be
done of the same materials and everything. No, that's that's now. Okay. Just the deck. Yeah. U just a suggestion. Cedar uh uh regular cedar that you get down here uh loves mold and
can get a moldy appearance. Uh uh I would certainly suggest that you stain that after you put it up. Maybe even wait a little bit but then stain it. And if you want it to be white to match other trim, a a solid uh uh stain is uh
a very good thing to use. I've used that on a lot of fences. Our fence was cedar. Yeah, it's but like five years. It's pretty good. Uhhuh. Uhhuh. Painted cedar, but we're going to stain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You that are going to be out there power washing pretty regularly. I did. Okay. I have a power
wash. That's all I have. Okay. Just because there there you're only doing the deck because there is some uh fencing in the back. You're not doing any fences at all. Okay. It's just shown on here. I just wanted to make sure
we're all fenced in already. Yep. Okay. Kids and the dogs. We've got both. Yeah. Well, I am very surprised that my colleague, Mr. Carol, has not discussed the railings. Mhm. Oh, wow. So, still
time, Tom. Yeah. Do you want you want another shot at this? With wood railings like that, the square pieces, we do suggest to be in compliance with railings of that period of time earlier and a little bit later
that there only be no more and for a real 2x4 have any more than three inches between them. Three inches with true 2x4s, no more than uh or no less or no more than three inches between them.
Even though the ordinance says you have to have a 3-in opening, that doesn't match the railings of that period of time to have that kind of opening. 4.5 center to center. Okay. Yeah. Now, that is acceptable. Yes. So, this says
between railings, but if it's Oh, it does say center to center. So, yeah, center. So, if these are 2 by twos, then you've got three three inch space and inch and a half solids, right? So, they're real 2 by twos. No, no, no. Inch and a half. Yep. Inch and a half. Okay. But then they're still on what's what's
the center on them? Um they're in four and a half inch centers. So it means there'll be a three inch space. Okay. Three and a half inch. Okay. Which I think is Yeah. Fine. Right. Another thing that really helps railings to match the existing ones is a stronger top rail. Yes. Uh and it's also good for
the longevity of your whole system to have something that where rain hits it, it can flow off to the sides and not down everything all the time. So, I would suggest a little heavier top railing system on
that. Maybe uh uh you you're using 2x4s, but if you got a 2x6, which is really five and a half, and beveled the top of that, you could get a very handsome looking top rail, meet all the safety
requirements, and that would help keep it dry and last longer. Since since we're proceeding so quickly and Tom has made these good points, I'm going to make a couple more about rail in construction. U in addition to shedding water at the top, you want to make sure
your bottom rail does the same thing so that so the water isn't picked up by your uh your end grains on on your spindles on your ballasters. And I would also suggest that you give serious consideration to end priming the wood before you install it. Say that end
priming. Yeah, you want to end prime your ballusters or spindles. That way any water that does get through will tend to be resisted and not get sucked up the grain of your of your spindles. Okay. And to continue with what Mr. Test is saying, it looks like the the bottom
rail, it does look like that it is sitting on the deck top. I just want to make sure that that wasn't your intention. No, it's not. Okay. So, and to complete Jim's comments, wow. If you're working on the the spindles
coming down, if they get a upside down Vcut in them that matches a a right side up cut at the bottom, you know, they go they fit right into that and that makes them drain uh naturally and that will also help them last a lot. As you know,
we put railings out there to rot away and that they're great at doing that no matter what kind of wood you use. Uh, so that's one of the best solutions to get, you know, to get the water draining away from them as soon as you can. Does the porch have a slope?
Is the porch hang? Yeah. Uh-huh. We don't have a contractor yet. Yeah. Uhhuh. That's the hardest thing. Yeah. The problem is we have to get it approved, then get a quote. Yeah. So, okay. We're going to get three quotes.
Yeah. So, I also have a few comments. Um, I would like to do a little bit of clarification about the railings. Ballusters, I think, are fine, but let's start with the bottom railing. If it is a 2x4, that the long dimension is
horizontal, that would not at all be consistent with the construction of the 1910 to 1920 time frame when this house was built. the height of the bottom rail would be
higher than just that inch and a half. And the reason for that is very simple. And that is if I were to take this as a 2x4 and push down on it, it deflects. But if it's got a taller dimension vertically, it doesn't because it's got more material to push up against that
weight that's coming down, which is why they're built so that the railing height is usually at least the height of its thickness more often its height is greater than its width. Make sense? And it would be at least a couple of inches
above the deck, which I think Lraine had identified. So that's one. Second is the top rail just looks like a board looks like a board where it would have some detail to it. Uh some sort of
uh I would say shape that would be more detailed than just a square board. We're talking about again a railing the top rail. Yeah. So I think what we need to see before we can approve this is a more detailed drawing of the construction of that whole set of railing components.
Bottom rail, ballusters, top rail. just just just illustrative of something that might serve as perfect something that might serve as a sort of inspiration for the shape of the bottom and top rails. I mean, basically what you want to do is give it a profile profile instead of
instead of having a a just a squared off piece of lumber. So, this is our this is our uh one of our attorney commissioners being an architect, which is great. We love it. You're supposed to laugh at that. Well, it's the best I could do. At least I'm not an artist. I actually have a couple
more drawing too. Yeah, I Well, it just is suggesting because this is this comports with what we've been saying. So, I have a couple comports. I also have a couple couple more issues that I that bear mentioning and I think um we would like to suggest as um if a strong
suggestion or maybe even a requirement. So, these posts that you're putting here are 4x4s. Mhm. Is that just a pressuret treated 4x4 that has no cladding on it or what is that 4x4? It's going to be
cedar. Stained cedar. Okay. So, this all of this construction is not painted. It's just stained cedar. Is that the intention? Yes. Okay. So, I would suggest that you're not going to be happy with the
4x4s at 8t tall. they're going to look pretty spindly. So, I would suggest very strongly that you consider 6x sixs. The other thing that I find um a neighbor has 4x4s and they in the front
of the their house that that that may be but what we are trying to assess is what might be um best for this particular project. And I I appreciate that your neighbor has done one thing, but what we're trying to assess is this project on its own
merits. The other thing that that I'm kind of concerned about is this is a contributing house. And this deck construction looks very modern. And when I say modern, it has
expressed all of its elements without any sort of detailing of those elements. That's why I was asking about whether the columns were clad. And one of the most important ones is if you look at the photograph of the front of your house and you look at the front porch. So these porches are almost
always built so that the beam that comes across actually the the actual supporting beam at the top of the columns is not actually the height of the space underneath there. There's almost always a lower structure more
close to what the top of a window head height would be. And I looked at your dimensions and this is at 8 ft. So in section it would look more like like that where this beam actually comes down as a lower sophet to actually enclose that space a little bit as
opposed to it just being a pure beam that wraps around at the height of the top of the columns. So if you look at your front porch now, it was a front porch at some point that's been enclosed that you will see that the way that was constructed would have been that it had a drop sophet across the top of the
columns which was lower than the actual supporting beam capturing the rafters. Just needs a little more character to be in character with that period of house from 1910 to 1920. So what I'd like to suggest is that
instead of this being a final approval because there are at least four or five issues that have arisen, I would like to suggest that we consider conceptual approval and ask you to come back. What What do folks think? I'm I'm
proposing that I I would agree. Yeah, that's torturing our client a little bit. I'd like to add one more thing. Your lattice at the bottom is uh you know not cross-checked in it. Uh which
is the typical lattice that you find where one runs like this, the other runs like this. Uh and there is an advantage to that. it the appearance is in keeping with others, but it also has a natural draining effect since all those things
drain rather than have ledges for water to sit on, which might have been why people started doing that. So, I'm sorry, say that again, Tom, about the lattice. Talking about diagonal diagonal lattice diagonal lattice instead of vertical and horizontal. Yeah. And
additionally, it would be wood lattice. Yeah. See the the I would say the advantage but one of the details of having conceptual approval is that you will get notice from us about conceptual approval and the things in the conceptual approval that we'd like to
see in connection with final will be detailed for you. Okay. So it's I mean take the notes but but you'll see what we can't take them fast enough. So you'll see Mr. Trust Wright them Mr. Trusky. What we're really trying to
do is is actually be in service to you liking your addition even more by virtue of it maybe being a little bit more cogent with the existing historical contributing house. So, I'd also like to suggest that we meet here in this room
every Tuesday morning and starting tomorrow and between now and our next meeting, if you would like to come and sit with us in our review committee, be happy to chat through this a little bit more to make sure that you have a a clear understanding and maybe even
propose to us some ideas that you might have about how you would respond to these comments. That way, we can do this collaboratively if you'd like. Okay. When the meeting again, so we meet every Tuesday morning. Um, all we need to have you do if you'd like to meet with us is simply call Judy Decker, our secretary,
and make an appointment anytime between 9:30 and 11, and we can sit and chat through this and collaboratively improve it. All right. Want to My son should be here with that next Tuesday. Yeah, make make him
do some more work. Yeah, it'd be great. He did all this drawing. So, one of the benefits of of going that route is we've all been taking notes and this is what mine look like right now. But what what you could end up with is it sounds like your son's helping you with like some of
the design of this and he did a pretty good job like of giving an idea what's going on. But you could end up with a picture of what the end product would look like, the railing that with, you know, material this and it'll be painted that and then that's a really good reference point for your builder. It's
also a really good reference point for the HPC compliance offer to say, "Yeah, that's that's what got approved and that's what's being built." So that's when you get the speed What's that? That's when you get the speed. It moves everything along quickly. This
part will take a little time, but then once once you get to that point, should be off to the races. Yeah, maybe next Tuesday if Matt's way. Well, that could also work in the sense that um you'll do that
and it would really then speed up the process when you just come for the final approval. Having had discussion, having had the details, your final application will reflect all those things and you might even join that ranks of the people we pass on in five minutes like we did
before. Hopefully. No, in in any event uh um I'll I'll there's no more comments. I'll I'll move to give a conceptual approval. So maybe what I could do is summarize what I have as comments. Oh, good. As as what we're approving conceptually. So I think what's being proposed is Mr. Tesa is
moving to approve conceptually this project with the following conditions. That we align the porch side edge with the existing house bumpout at the 42 1/2 ft setback. That we reconfigure the bottom
rail so that it is not at the deck and has a more vertical profile. That we also use a top rail that has more of a period profile. that we alter the posts to be 6x6 and consider clatting
them, but maybe not. That we also engage with the construction of a drop set at the top of the columns and that we include diagonal lattice for the space beneath the 2 by8
deck board. Did that capture everything, folks? It it did. And I I would at least I think it did. Did Did we capture everything? I think so. The gap space on the bottom. Did we go over that on the bottom part of it? Was that part of the Yes. Okay. Yep.
Okay. So So with those attached to the motion conceptual approval that would be the motion. Judy, did you get all those? I did. So we have a motion for Mr. Ta. I will second it. And seconded by Mr. Carol. Okay.
Mr. Carol, yes. Miss Wilson Strick, yes. Mr. Stevenson, yes. Mr. Hammer, yes. Mr. Ta, yes. Mr. Becker, yes. Thank you. So hopefully Mr. Trusky found that helpful and we look forward to meeting
with you um with your son uh maybe next Tuesday. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. I need to uh amend the applications approved and denied in review for the on the Sheffer
uh 1011. I need to recuse myself from that please. So that's three of us that recuse ourselves from 1011 Washington Sheffer. That's uh Mr. Hammer, Mr. Curts, and myself. And I think I have to recuse myself from this next applicant
as well. Okay. The ar the architect was the client of mine or is a client of mine. It's optimistic. It's future anticipation. Oh, okay. He's a lawyer also. So, [Laughter]
so next up is next up is McFarland Associates at 112 Madison. If you could please come up to the table and introduce yourselves with your name and what your role in the project is, please. Hi, I'm Rob Wilson. I'm the owner of
McFarland Associates, which is the owner of 112 Madison Avenue. Okay. And I'm Chris Zender. I'm the architect. Uh I'm also a professional engineer and professional planner and I've had experience with historic work here in Cape May and I prepared the application
on behalf of the applicant. Gentlemen, the table is or the Yes. Floor. Floor is yours. Not the table. The floor table's ours. Tables. Let me go ahead. Okay. So, the applicant, this home has been in their family since what, 1983? 85. 85, sorry.
So, it was his father's home. Uh, it's passed through the generations. Um, he's been doing renovations on the interior. I've been involved with a lot of that. Uh, we now find ourselves in the situation where they're trying to make this a multi-generational
um summer retreat for the family. Uh we've done some in interior configurations on the second floor so that there's bathrooms and living space for everybody. Uh what we're looking to do uh it's indicated on the site plans, but at the back of the home, uh there's
an existing rear porch on the second floor, and we're looking to convert that uh from just an open screen porch that's not really used um into a a bathroom linked to the bedroom uh that it abuts.
Um you can see this on the um existing partial rear plan as well as the proposed partial rear plan. Uh we're looking to enclose this on three sides with walls, uh three windows on the back, and then your
conventional vanity, shower, and sinks. Um, in terms of the finished materials, we're looking to match the materials that, uh, exist on the house, uh, including cedar shakes on the roof. Um, she shakes, uh, to match the
existing sighting, including the the coursing and exposure. Uh, and we're proposing three new windows, which, uh, will be solid wood construction. Uh, Gelwin is the company I'm most familiar with using here. we can get c truly
custom windows. Um we have six over one lights and then on the last page of the 11 by17 drawings I have a proposed window detail which more or less is indicative of a craftsman style trim configuration
um with everything detailed out and proportional. Uh we typically order our windows through through Cape May uh Lumber. Uh I have a great relationship with them and they know the drill with the HPC. Um they get a full drawing from me with details. Um the trim package for
the exterior uh will be provided by John Hassie. Um we get we like Aoya wood because it's rot resistant. Uh I think it's warrantied for about 50 years. Great stuff. Yeah. Um, and uh, that's what happens when you pick a wood
apparently. Um, and then we're going to paint that trim to match the existing trim on the house, which is white. Um, and that that's in summation. That's really what the application is. I did prov uh provide towards the tail end of the package uh, a summary of the
features from the gelwin catalog. Uh, the construction will be the orast pine primed for the windows. uh so that they're prepped for paint. Um they'll be true divide lights um all
wood construction and um I'm happy to take any questions. Mr. Xander. Yes. Sorry, just a threshold procedural question. Did did you guys do a F analysis on this? Um we did not do an F analysis.
Okay. The the only reason I asked we don't do F here. Mhm. The zoning for Bruce. Yeah. And and the reason it might impact here is because if you do have to go to the board for some reason, we usually do conceptual that goes to the board and then you can come back for
final if you need board relief. So you may have heard the discussion from a previous application just double-checking with Bruce what you're doing is either code compliant subject to the HPC or or you may need to go to the board. I don't know the answer to that. I'm just it's a it's a question. Do do you know the answer of whether or
not enclosing a porch and making a room out of it constitutes a floor that would change the ratio? Yeah, I think I think there's pretty good chance that that's the that's the key point here. So, and I don't know if if you have those numbers in your you know somewhere not in my pocket tonight, but I can review that and I'll call him tomorrow. Okay. He's
generally very responsive. I realize I'm putting you on the spot when I part part of what you know the lens that we'll look at it tonight in this in this zone call. I just I believe it's the F max is 40%. Okay. Okay. So, I don't know if you
have any numbers in your head. I mean, we can see what the square footage of the right is. We know what the square footage of the usable area of the house is. I I don't I'm not prepared with those numbers. So, I'd be misspeaking no matter what I said. Either overly optimistic or overly pessimistic because
um quite optimistic, but well, like that to be on the safe side, we would consider that the best we could do tonight is a conceptual. Okay. But if it turns out that you don't have an F issue and that that could easily be converted into a final. Let me ask you a question. Is the adjacent lot attached to this or
is it separate? It's a separate. Okay. Because the the applicant also owns the corner lot and I was thinking that if that was part of it probably didn't have an issue, but we might have an issue just because we have a like a cottage. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. There's two structures, two living structures on the property. That's what
I was saying. Yeah. Yeah. So just that's a question for tomorrow, but we can we can still consider this conceptual tonight. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Solicitor. So let's go around the table for any comments. Lorraine, please. No comments. Thank you, Mr. Carol. A very
understandable uh addition to the House. I have no objection. Thank you. I I have less of any objection. I It's It's It's well hidden. It's obviously minimalist in terms of what it does to the structure. It's behind it. I can see
the function. I have only one real question and that is there is a huge variation in the number of window configurations in the house including one over ones, 6 over9s, 6 over one. And I'm just wondering why those three
windows got chosen to be 6 over one. So that that was a conscious decision by myself. There are a number of different window configurations within the house. And based on the historic report, this being an early turn of the century Craftsman, I decided to go with what I
feel is one of the more conventional configurations, which was the 601. Were the Were the one over ones shown in the rear elevation replacement windows? Uh, yes. That probably accounts for why they're not six over something. So that
that that's why I I chose to do that. I felt like it's it's a truer version of historically what would have been there. Thank thank you. And my suggestion is should you replace those other windows, move back to 601. Yes, I like Jim's
suggestion. I think um it's a it's a good way of increasing the usefulness of the interior without harming the streets. Thank you. Yeah, we tried to be very sensitive and this does have even though there's
it's a side elevation, we do have a very prominent side elevation visible. So, right, it's very neat and tidy addition and uh it's a nice thing springing for the true lights as well. I suggest Thank you.
Just just two quick questions. One is I I didn't really pick that up. Do you own the property on the corner or not? It is owned by a separate entity. I'm a partial owner of that also. Okay. I ended up buying my sister's interest in the main house and but we kept that
interest. Okay. So, so it is this addition entity. Okay. This addition is visible from the side street then it is right. Okay. Um, and just a sort of a secondary question, the
there's a like a I'll call almost like a porch next to this addition where the two air conditioner units are. Do you have any thoughts of eventually turning that into a working porch or anything like that or um well, I really don't have any place to put the units and I
think I'm might be up on my F so I wasn't sure. I thought this was like already enclosed area and I thought maybe it was already under roof and hopefully we won't have any objection for us to just enclose that. It we'll make it it's better than the screens blowing out in November out onto the
lawn. Yeah, I'd say yeah, I know that's a great suggestion, but I never I I considered the status of that location, but never addressed it with the applicant because I felt that it exists
and it's a very nice solution for AC condensers versus having them on the ground and visual uh with between the angle of, you know, from eyesight and pedestrian eyesight and everything else, it it just works. So I I felt that was
the highest and best use because it could be a porch but then we'd have to relocate those things. Yeah. I I just simply you know the reason I asked the question is often times we'll see a project come in and before you know it there's a there's almost like a you know a second part of the project that was originally envisioned and just for
whatever reason wasn't brought here. I'm just curious what your plan is if any. No, I mean my first choice would have been to enclose the whole thing, but since it's not under roof now, I didn't think that that would they have the embarrassment of riches and that on Madison Avenue, they have a beautiful
ground or it's elevated above ground, but first floor level porch that you can perch on. So that's pretty much the gathering place. So this this to put a porch on the back, it it it's not going to get that kind of a use. I understand. Well, the only thing I would just simply
say is, you know, it is visible from Kernney. So therefore, that always attracts my attention. You know, how is it just like the the earlier applicant, you know, when you're when you are looking at the the sighteline, you know, you don't want something intrusive. This is a very nicely done addition. It
doesn't seem obtrusive to me. So, I I don't really have any other questions. I do agree with with Jim. I think be better to have windows that are all, you know, some kind of matching windows, you know, across the back at some point. that we put on here. That's that would be a you know another day for a project. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you'll get around to
it. Yeah. Those are replacement windows. You you'll get around to it. Ask a question. This is both combination of our procedure and whether or not we can do this. Is it possible for I mean there doesn't seem to be any conditions to this conceptual approval except the fact
that we don't know whether it's going to require um issues with respect to zoning. Um and and yet we don't have any other suggestions for is it possible for us to grant conceptual approval but make that
conceptual convert into final if there is no zoning issue? Yes. I mean, because I would I would rather than have them come back for a final approval where we haven't asked them to do anything more, I' I'd grant them conceptual because we
think they might have a a zoning question or problem. If it turns out you don't have a FAR situation, I I would prefer to convert this into a final if we can do it. Can I can I make a motion to do that? Sure. Okay. Is there any limitation?
Because respectfully we I if we gain approval from this board, we still have to um submit full construction plans before the construction official and that's preceded obl obligation uh with a review from the zoning officer. So there
you know like we are obligated to do that. We can wait the time limit. Well Chris Chris the final the final approval usually comes construction. This is this is a simple enough application that if you wanted to, you could consider just
giving a final to it. And then what happens beyond that, they're going to have to get a zoning permit one way or the other. And thank you. That's all I'm trying to say. And and it's simple enough that you you have the discretion to do that. We have done that in the past. We don't do it in every case. And we're you're doing an addition that
really might have some push and pull by the board. This is can we enclose this porch and turn into something, right? and that's going to be an F application to the board or not. And if it's not, it's gonna have it can have the support of this board um through a resolution. I
mean, I'd love to appear before you again, but for a different application. Well, no, that's I mean, that's the reason I was suggesting it be converted. But if they do um the if we do this as final, it turns out they do have a fire problem and have to redesign. Have to come back for us. They'll have to come back. Yeah. Yeah. We won't be able to
proceed in any way through zoning to construction. So the mechanism is there to prevent the shortcircuiting of here's the benefit the benefit of doing a conceptual as Kevin's pointing out this this roof thing and the HVAC condensers if it turns out that they have to make
an F application they may consider well if we're going to go to that trouble maybe we try and rearrange that and maybe the additions on the outward facing portion and the HVAC rerouted to that side but I'm not trying to re redesign this at the table I'm just saying that that's I was going to make a
motion and I'm not so sure what motion I'm going to Drake. Well, I think you it's simple enough. They they've they know what they want to do. They want to enclose that porch and if the HPC is okay with it. It's it's straightforward enough and not a lot of moving parts that you could just give a final. They'll figure out we we we can't
flip-flop the configuration for this bathroom because it's a different bedroom it lands in. It's I saw your head go down when I suggested that. So, I'm not I No, I don't design. I'm not I'm I'm not uh I'm not betting that you're going to do any other fancy
footwork here other than to try and do what you've submitted to us. So, I will make a motion to Can I hold you for just a second? I will not make a motion just because I haven't made my comments yet. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't. No. Um I only have one. Well, actually two. One is very nicely presented. Having the detail
that you presented us is really helpful. However, with that said, there's one drawing that I think we still need, and that's a south elevation. And the reason why is because this literally is an addition, even though it's just in closing. And how the addition material
meets the existing house material needs to be differentiated. Maybe it's just a trim board as in compliance with our standards. And since we don't have a document of that, I think we need to see that. That's all. So, if I did like a traditional um corner board. Exactly. Mhm. Just to have that clean break. Yep.
just a clean break. That's all. And if we have that, so that document will be important so that our compliance officer when they're out in the field can see that that's actually what we approved and it's in compliance with our standards. Okay, that's all. What's the procedure for that? Well, is that
something I could submit administratively or do we appear next month? Yes. Can I make the motion? I would make the motion to grant final approval, but with respect to what you just mentioned, I would have that submitted to the review committee. That's what I'm suggesting. Okay. Can someone please
you're confused? I I would like I would like the motion to be summarized by someone. So I think Mr. Tesla, you are motioning right to grant final approval to this application. Uh but the final application when submitted has to have uh the um south elevation
south elevation showing the differentiation that we talked about and that submission will be made to our review committee for its review and that will finalize the approval. So essentially you are what's being moved here proposed is a final approval with
the condition that you submit a south elevation for review by our review committee. Okay, perfect. Judy, is that clear enough? So, it's final condition. It's a It's a final with conditions. One condition and that is submitting the south elevation. Okay. It just sounded like it was going
to be something else. That's it. That's it. Do I hear a second? Second. Moved by Mr. Tessa, seconded by Mr. Stevenson. Judy, roll call, please. Mr. Carol, yes. Miss Wilson Strick. Yes. Mr. Stevenson. Mr. Hammer. Yes. Mr. Tester? Yes. Mr.
Becker? Yes. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you for your time. You're very welcome. And uh I'll try to have something for you next Tuesday. Yeah, that'd be great. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you very much. Meeting for us to finish within the hour is Well, we're
not done yet quite finished yet, right? There must be something in the air. It's spring. Okay. So, I would call for public comment, but you two gentlemen are the only public present. Do you have a comment? Thank you.
Okay. Just keep doing what you're doing. And I love doing these types of projects, but I've talked to other municipalities up north who the the neighbors come in and they live in historic neighborhoods and they get really upset when something gets passed by. But not everybody's willing to
invest the time and the resources and putting together a guide book and standards and it's it's a tragedy. Yeah. Well, thanks for your contribution. Thanks for using pleasure. Yeah, you you'll find you get a better result if you do use it. It's it's not hard. It's
spelled out. It's what we thought. Okay. So, thank you all. Closing public comment. Turn this off. We have Yes, please. We have two items for discussion. The first is just a a bit of a report back on the uh special
alignment workshop that we had, workshop number two, which was last Thursday. So what has occurred since then is we have written a cover letter as suggested that will go along with the notice of the amendment sent to the 215 I believe
affected parties and the intention is for that to go out within the next day or two. The challenge is that they our solicitor is suggesting and for good reason I believe that they be sent by certified mail. So, that's going to be a
bit of a challenge, but uh and the only other notion is removing from it our idea of having it be an RSVP simply because it could become unmanageable for Judy. So, we've removed that from the cover letter and thank you
Janice for your editing work on that. Um, we still need to produce by Wednesday, which I will just go ahead and do. I think it's pretty straightforward just the the legal notice announcing the meeting which is basically just a very simple straightforward this the shorter the better because it costs less with less
words and that is just simply I'm going to send it to you purpose right it's just the purpose why are we meeting and in many ways we could probably just extract what I put in the cover letter what do you think yeah I I I just think they should be aware that the HPC is considering recommending an amendment to
the local district map and then the the purpose uh statement that that's fine, too. Just let them know what we're we're doing. Well, what I what I didn't want to do is put the official purpose statement in that notice, but because I think it it just be cleaner just to say, "Hey, this is what we're assuming or this is what we're addressing." Ex
almost exactly as I did in the cover letter to the uh affected parties. And I'd be happy to send you a copy of that before Judy sends it out on Wednesday. I think you need to send that on Wednesday, right Judy? If you want it published by the 28th, if you don't care if it's published on June 4th, the
Wednesday prior to the meeting, then we have another week. So, the meeting's June 9th, correct? Well, it seems to me the earlier folks know about this, the better. Yeah. So, I think we should target getting that that public notice out by Wednesday. Does that make sense?
Yes. One other thing I would like to do um is also send to all of you a draft of a um a press release. Remember we talked about also having a press release about this June 9th meeting. We did. So I I'll go ahead and draft that and send it to
our wonderful editor over here, Janice. And Janice, after I get it back from you and any other comments that I get from you guys, we'll just need to send it to Paul for his approval before he gives it to Casey to publish it. Okay. Other than that, um the other the other piece that
needs to be done is I have not done the meeting minutes yet. Um I'm hoping to get to those by the end of this week. They're rather extensive. We we did a lot of work. Um I'm using that as an excuse, of course, for actually the real excuse is the jazz festival this
weekend, but we won't um nothing like making a public admission. Yeah. Well, you know, I um so in addition from our meeting notes, I am going to create or make a
first pass at consolidating the two purpose statements that our two breakout groups did into one integrated one and propose an agenda for the day based upon the activities that we talked about. And I I would like to send that out to all of you and have you respond and I'll
give you a a deadline to respond to me so that we can give that to Judy's because Judy needs to publish the agenda officially on the city's website. By what date, Judy? There's not really a date for that, but 48 hours in advance. Okay. Well, we'll
have it way before then. Okay. Any other comments on the June 9th special meeting regarding the amendment to the historic district map? What time? Oh, 4 to 6 in this room. Yep. Yep. John, I did what I spoke to you
after the last meeting was that um the idea of having a an official city polo shirt that has the city seal and then historic preservation commission. Yep. Something that we could use for our public outreach programs, make us more
identifiable. And uh I spoke with the mayor and the city manager. They approved it. I was able to reach out to United Uniforms and they gave me a quote of $30 per shirt, which of course I think would have to come from us. Otherwise, I guess every other board and
commission would have to get them. But I'll pass it around. Um I'm going show it to Kevin first. But the mayor is wearing one. There's one with Mike V. And they have two different logos. They have a linear logo and they have the round logo. Not and they're a just a
very nice polo shirt. Not to uh take not to be xenophobic about this, but these are US and Union made. Are they? Um that's my question. Well, I will look into that.
Yeah, I take it they're all black. Well, whatever this is. Are they black or navy? I don't know. There's many colors available. Yeah, I think that Aren't Aren't they navy blue? Lorraine, the ones that the one that I have is black. Um Oh, great.
There are special. There's red. Oh, yeah. There's navy blue. Black would be better. There's royal blue. There's white. Jake, I only have one question. Polyester or cotton? The specs are on here. Okay. And I mean, I think it it
may be a synthetic, but we could, you know, request a price on cotton if that's preferred or 5050. So, Jake, I guess you'll need sizes for all of us, right? You know what I mean? Is polyester. Yeah. Is that good or bad? I
think white for summer uniforms and black for winter. I'll second that. How does that go with eating pizza with the white? Is that okay? here. White with black lemon. What's good to your Okay. So, we'll just leave it that
you can order a white and a black if you if you're so decide. Are you going to do individual names on them or are you just going to do historic pres? That wasn't I you know the way they've been producing them the logo is on one side and the they have their department on the other except for
the elected officials just do historic preservation and that's because then you're not getting involved with right and we're are we paying individually for our shirts? Yes. I mean uh that's what was suggested. So so 30 bucks not bad. I
gave me three shirts as harbor master and I never paid for any one of them. So yeah, I got an ar arguing point there. I'm guessing it's the annual appreciation. So I I have a suggestion. Yeah. Jake, would you be willing to send out an email to all of us? Simply asking two
questions. Yeah. One is what size, what color? Okay. And how many? Right. And how many you'd like? Okay. And each of us will then pay whomever we pay. I guess that are you gonna are you going to be also the treasurer of this? Yeah, but I'll do the collecting. Okay. So
then we could also then just give you the money for whatever how many shirts we want. Size and color, right? Yeah. And I mean it's right up here. It's there's a gun range up there. Route nine. Great. So it's local. They are very nice shirts. They are. Yes. Yeah. And it's the same that the city Yeah. buys for all the other uses. Who's this
guy wearing this thing? Okay. So we have one more um item for discussion. I would like to hand it over to Mr. Ta for this. I'm I'm sure that um you you all saw over the last couple of weeks the appeal from the preservation interests and um
reflecting on that um I'm if you've been following at all I I think you'll know that uh funding for preservation is in the process of taking an enormous hit in the upcoming budget. Um, and it it's a
very very serious matter and I reflected on that in the responsive email when when it first came out from Judy's notice and I thought that as a group and as a commission we ought to be expressing a viewpoint about that
outcome and attempting to try and change it and and the way we change things is through the political system. Uh so so what I am proposing that we do is adopt a resolution a copy of which I'm going to pass out to you that I've done as a
draft and ask you to read it. Um but but the gist of it would be to do by resolution a a view from this commission. um that says you need to put adequate funds back in the historic preservation fund for this budget year
and you need to release the funds that are mysteriously being held back from use and some of those involve grants that have already been awarded which is disgraceful. So, so I do that by by mentioning the political appeal which I
think is is federal and which ought to go to um our um our representative in the House of Representatives and to our two senators and and in addition to the resolution for for them um I'm asking us to ask council and city officials to do
likewise because we are a national historic landmark and we should count and our view should count in preservation. should be important. So, I'd just ask you to read that and then I'm going to ask if it's if it's okay with you that I have a resolution a a
motion to adopt the resolution. Please. I just like to add that a lot of those grants that were approved. The organizations have spent the money on that promise that you will be refunded as long as you did everything right. So,
I mean, we would be leaving a lot of organizations on the hook to some money that they borrowed. uh a very very poor way to for any government agency to treat people like that. So if you just take a moment to read the
the the whereasses which are extensive unfortunately and and the the conclusion at the end and I and I would I would guess and suppose if this resolution is passed that our chairman will do a cover for it uh and and move it to the you know to
the right offices and the right I can I'll take So in summary after all the whereouses what we are resolving to do is to uh hereby
request and urge to take all to our uh US senators and house of representatives who are in associated with our area. Um, I guess I did put the entire New Jersey delegation, but I put um, you know, I
put Jeff Van, Jefferson, Van Drew, Corey Brook, Cory Booker, and Andy Kim. Where are what we're doing is requesting and urging them to take all necessary action in the legislative and the administrative process, including executive branch to red address the above failures regarding lack of funding
or or rescending of funding and resolve favorably the concerns noted above. In addition, we are asking the city officials, including the mayor, city council, and city manager to also take all necessary and desirable action within the powers likewise to effectuate the foregoing
resolution. Yeah. The the only the only concern that I have is it does say city council and they haven't had the chance the opportunity to see this. No. And you would you would bring it to them, right? Okay. This is us asking in addition to us doing what we're going to do. Okay. Asking you all to do something.
Absolutely. And I have no problem with doing that. and giving, you know, giving this to all members of council. I'm a great believer in piling on. We're not telling, we're asking. Oh, yeah. And I and I would do the same asking them. It is. Listen, this is a resolution specifically from the city of Kate May's
Historic Preservation Commission. Correct. Yes. You have any comments, Mr. Solicitor? No, I think it looks good. And Jim, do you have if you have a word document of this, could you send it to me as well? I I do and John does and Judy does. Okay.
So they can send it to forward it to you. So my my only my only request would be um as um vice chair if you would write the cover letter. Happy to. And I would be I I would I would co-sign it with you. Terrific. Does that sound good? Done.
That'd be great. But pass the resolution first. So do I hear a motion to pass a resolution for uh well this proposed resolution right before us? I'll make the motion. Moved by Mr. Curts. I'll second it. Seconded by Miss Wilson
Strick. Judy, could we have a roll call vote, please? I'll pause. Sorry. It it does, but all his communication says Andy. Okay. His his stuff to his constituents actually says Andy, but we all know who
it is, still the same. So, we have before us a a motion for approval of this resolution as proposed by Mr. Ta, moved by who moved? Oh, Mr. Curtson seconded by Miss Wilson Strick. Judy, please. Mr.
Carol, yes. Miss Wilson Strick. Yes. Mr. Stevenson? Yes. Mr. Hammer? Yes. Mr. Tessa? Yes. Mr. Curts? Yes. Mr. Becker? Yes. Thank you. With all of that. Thank Thank you all. You're welcome. Thank you for taking on
the initiative to do that. Um, do we have any other comments, questions, discussions? I I just have one just a point of recognition that Tom and Sue Carol were um awarded citizen of the year by the city of Cape May um for year
22, wasn't it? 22. 22. So um certainly, you know, for all the dedicated services that the two of them have done for the city. I just think it's worth noting for the record that the committee appreciates that too. Thank you. And thank you all who came out and supported
the It really was an HBC evening, wasn't it? Yeah, it really was. So, thank you, Tom, for all all you've done. [Applause]
You'll know where I'm going to be in this long term. You know, under the stone, they're going to have to reduce you quite a bit. So any other issues for this evening or a motion to adjurnn? I move I'll second. All in
favor? I meeting adjourned at 7:12. Wow. Wow. Impressive. Crazy. Crazy. Yeah.