WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=tXGC3T6ugkw

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: tXGC3T6ugkw):
- 00:16:39: Meeting Called to Order: Pledge and Roll Call
- 00:17:52: Approval of April Minutes; Bill Payment Ratification
- 00:19:17: Resolutions to Ratify: Clarifications and Roll Call
- 00:20:51: Ratifying Applications Approved and Denied; HPC's Purpose
- 00:22:27: Hampton: Siding and Decking Renovations at 645 Lafayette
- 00:24:54: Hampton Continued: Wood Choice and Sill Assessment Discussions
- 00:26:16: Hampton Continued: Material Considerations and Public Excitement
- 00:27:51: Hampton Continued: Lafayette's Gateway and Deeper Concerns
- 00:29:10: Hampton Continued: Bamboo Decking and Shutter Considerations
- 00:30:33: Hampton Continued: Wife Clarifies Bamboo Use and Durability
- 00:31:53: Hampton Continued: Final Approval with Sill, Railing, Door
- 00:33:17: Hampton Continued: Discussion and Approval of Wood Decking
- 00:34:20: Bergos: Replacing Roof Shingles at 908 Stockton Avenue
- 00:35:45: Bergos Continued: Building Report and Existing Roofing Analysis
- 00:37:05: Bergos Continued: Diamond Shingles and Property Report Comments
- 00:38:07: Bergos Concluded: Roof Application Approval Vote
- 00:38:38: Congress Hall: Entrance Awning and Balcony Improvements
- 00:40:06: Congress Hall: ADA Access, Column Rhythm, and Coverage
- 00:41:32: Congress Hall: Detail Elevations and Column Study Analysis
- 00:42:52: Congress Hall: Exhibit Review and Annex Balcony Proposal
- 00:44:24: Congress Hall: Perry Wing Considerations and Discussions
- 00:45:44: Congress Hall: Column Rhythm and Inviting Back Entrance
- 00:47:19: Congress Hall: Shutters and New Building Appearance Desired
- 00:48:37: Congress Hall: Eccentric Distances of the New Arrangement
- 00:50:11: Congress Hall: The Building's Renovations in the 2000s
- 00:51:36: Congress Hall: Main Entrance Location and Portica Share Concerns
- 00:52:59: Congress Hall: Updated Metal and Glass Look Rendering
- 00:54:37: Congress Hall: Distorted Columns and Celebrating Entrance
- 00:55:57: Congress Hall: New Look vs. Previous Building Styles
- 00:57:36: Congress Hall: The Building's Modern Support Structure
- 00:58:59: Congress Hall: Lighting and Design Standards Emulated
- 01:00:18: Congress Hall: Review Committee, Entrance Restoration, and Balance
- 01:01:39: Congress Hall: Waldorf Histori Emulation and Final Designs
- 01:03:00: Congress Hall: Well-Done Design with Updated Cleanups
- 01:04:24: Congress Hall: Star or Floor Details and Lighting Design
- 01:05:45: Congress Hall: Kelvin Measurements and Application Clarifications
- 01:07:19: Congress Hall: Congrats and Reflection on Historic Building
- 01:08:25: Iynedjian: Involved Renovation at 10:45 Washington Street
- 01:09:44: Iynedjian: Fairly Involved Renovation and Mansard Roof
- 01:11:20: Iynedjian: New Addition with Wood Clabboard
- 01:12:57: Iynedjian: Roof Characteristics and Roof Accents
- 01:14:32: Iynedjian: Transitions to the House and Garage Aspects
- 01:15:41: Iynedjian: Architectural Style and the Street Massing
- 01:16:47: Iynedjian: Learned Well and Connecting the Two Buildings
- 01:18:07: Iynedjian: A carrot: Architectural Historians and Building Gifts
- 01:19:12: Iynedjian: Dividers and Roofing Matching
- 01:20:01: Iynedjian: Sensitive Designs for the Side Bench
- 01:21:24: Iynedjian: How to do Additions and Different Clabid
- 01:22:48: Iynedjian: Late Addition of Options to the Roof
- 01:24:10: Iynedjian: Voting and Approval of Application
- 01:25:56: O'Conor: Non-contributing Single Family Resident
- 01:27:17: O'Conor: Two Requested Conditions Applied
- 01:28:44: O'Conor: Questions Asked About Lights and Landscaping
- 01:30:11: O'Conor: Interior/Exterior Shutters and Facade Discussion
- 01:31:49: O'Conor: Praise for This Wonderful Achievment
- 01:33:13: O'Conor: Brick Chimney and Railing Details
- 01:34:18: O'Conor: Transformation and Mirror of Steven's House
- 01:35:21: O'Conor: Barbecue Parties to Come for the Neighborhood
- 01:35:51: Addis: Pergolas in Front of the Restaurant
- 01:37:34: Addis: Flag Shaped with Flowers
- 01:39:13: Addis: Question Mark on Lighting
- 01:40:21: Addis: A Good Photo Op on the Corner
- 01:41:27: Addis: Landscaping Disagreement
- 01:42:47: Addis: Festive Appearance
- 01:44:06: Addis: Extension of Restaurant and Open Pergola
- 01:45:10: Addis: A Good Soften Stepstone
- 01:46:15: Addis: A Wonderful Festive Part of the Building
- 01:47:20: Addis: Options to Plant Some New Species
- 01:48:37: Addis: Different Species to Plant
- 01:50:00: Addis: Lighting and Perglas
- 01:50:29: Conceptual Approval Discussion: Flag Removal and Plantings
- 01:52:21: New Application: Stockton Avenue Exterior Renovation Project
- 02:00:32: Stockton Avenue: Material Concerns and Historical Accuracy
- 02:04:54: Stockton Avenue: Accessibility, Shutters and Elevation Questions
- 02:11:59: Stockton Avenue: Critique of Shutters and Material Sheet
- 02:15:50: Stockton Avenue: Distinguishing Additions and Chimney Material
- 02:22:49: Stockton Avenue: Options, Conceptual Review or Tabling
- 02:24:28: Stockton Avenue: Shutter Design, Windows, and Front Steps
- 02:36:21: Next Application Deferred, USS Jacob Jones Memorial Foundation
- 02:37:17: USS Jacob Jones Memorial: Design and Alignment Overview
- 02:46:30: USS Jacob Jones Memorial: Positive Design Comments
- 02:52:28: Public Comment: USS Jacob Jones Memorial Concerns
- 02:55:36: Memorial Discussion: Justifying Design Advisory Report
- 03:01:02: Design Awards Feedback and Historic District Mapping
- 03:08:19: Local Historic District Amendments and City Signage
- 03:12:10: Infrastructure Discussion: Ballard Concerns
- 03:14:03: Stone Harbor Historic Preservation Efforts


Part: 1

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like to call to order the city of KMAS Historic Preservation Commission meeting for May 18th. It is now 6:00. In compliance with the Open Public Meetings Act 1975, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided. If any member has reason to

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believe that this meeting is being held in violation of this act, they should state so at this time. Hearing none, if everyone would please join us in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the stands one nation under

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God, indivisible and justice for all. Lauren, do we have the roll call, please? >> Mr. Becker, >> here. >> Mr. Ta, >> here. >> Mr. Carol, >> yes. >> Miss Bizagno, >> here. >> Miss Wilson Strick >> here. >> Mr. Stevenson,

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>> present. >> Miss Decker, >> present. >> Mr. Hammerand >> here. >> Mr. Curts. >> Good. Okay. So, I believe that you all received a copy of the minutes from our April 20th meeting from Lauren.

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Hopefully, we've all had a chance to review them. I'd like to entertain a motion to approve those minutes. >> I'll I'll move the adoption of the April 20th minutes. >> I will second it. >> So, moved by Mr. Ta, seconded by Mr. Carol. Roll call vote, please. >> Mr. Carol, >> yes.

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>> Miss Sagno, abstain. Miss Wilson Shurik, did you um abstain? Sorry. >> Mr. Stevenson, >> yes. >> Miss Decker, >> yes. Mr. Hamaran, >> yes. >> Mr. Tessa, >> yes. >> Mr. Becker, >> yes.

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So, I believe you also all were able to receive and review the email from Lauren about the payment of our bills to Chris Gillan Schwarz Law LLC. Like to entertain a motion to approve the payment of that bill. Motion >> seconded. So moved by Mr. Stevenson,

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seconded by Mr. Ta. Roll call vote, please. >> Mr. Carol, >> yes. >> Miss Bagno, >> yes. >> Miss Wilson Strick, >> yes. >> Mr. Stevenson, >> yes. >> Miss Decker, >> yes. >> Mr. Hammeran, >> I I believe I don't have a vote on an alternate for this vote.

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>> You're right. >> You are correct. >> Thank you, Kevin. always interested in knowing how you feel but >> members but >> thank you sir >> Mr. Ta >> yes >> Mr. Becker. >> Yes.

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So, we have a list of resolutions to ratify. We want to make a couple of clarifications. The first one, Hiligos at 25 Gurnie Street. That's resolution 202614. We received via email a revised version of that today. Just want to make

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sure that we are ratifying the one that was revised, sent by our solicitor. And the same thing for the last one, Yacht Harbor Estates LLC at 10:15 Beach Avenue. Just want to make sure that everybody's ratifying the revised version we received today. So in addition to those,

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we have the gift of thistle LLC at 325 Washington Street, resolution 202615. Reich at 1249 Washington Street, resolution 202616. Mitch Zolic at 240 Windsor Avenue, resolution 202617.

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Pagno at 518 Bank Street at resolution 202618. Mecca Investments LLC, also 518 Bank Street. And lastly, Bray Family Partnership, 720 Washington Street. Entertain a motion to ratify these

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resolutions. >> I will do that, Tom. >> Second. >> Everybody's so reluctant. Uh, second. Second to the motion. >> Okay. So, moved by Mr. Carol, seconded by Mr. Tessa. Roll call vote, please.

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>> Mr. Carol, >> yes. Miss Pagno, >> abstain. >> Miss Wilson Shredik, >> abstain. >> Mr. Stevenson, >> yes. >> Miss Decker, >> yes. >> Mr. Hamron, >> yes. >> Mr. Ta, >> yes. >> Mr. Becker, >> yes.

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>> We also have a list of applications approved and denied and review. Like to entertain a motion to ratify those as well. >> So moved. >> Second. >> So moved by Ms. Wilson Stritic, seconded by Miss Bagna. Roll call vote, please. >> Mr. Carol.

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>> Yes. I excuse myself on Aker the first one. >> Miss Vagno. >> Yes. Miss Wilson. >> Yes. >> Mr. Stevenson. >> Yes. >> Miss Decker. >> Yes. >> Mr. Ta. >> Yes. >> Mr. Becker. >> Yes.

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>> Okay. Moving on to tonight's applications. But before we do, you folks may recall that the beginning of last year when we had our first alignment workshop, the group of us aligned around what is the real purpose,

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the core purpose of HPC's work. I'd like to ask Judy if she would please read that to set the tone and energy in the room tonight. The purpose of HPC's work is to serve as a catalyst for guiding and valuing Cape May's

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historical, cultural, and natural resources in ways that inspire and unite our community to steward these resources for the benefit of all so that present and future generations continue to express the unique quality of life we

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share in this place that we love. >> Thank you, Judy. So, notice folks that there is one change in our agenda this evening. The application for Huntington House LLC at 107 Grant Street requested that they be shifted to our

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June meeting. So, there will be one application that's on the list. We won't be hearing tonight. With that said, if we could have our applications begin with Hampton at 645 Lafayette Street. If you please come up and state your name and your relationship to the project.

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The floor will be yours. Yes. Good evening. >> Hi, Mr. Hampton. >> My name is Trevor. M >> Mr. Mr. Hampton, if you could just turn on that. Yeah, when it's green, it's good. >> Okay. >> Thank you.

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>> Uh my name is Trevor Hampton. Uh with me, I'm I'm representing the family. I have two sisters that uh jointly own the property at 645 Lafayette. Uh my wife uh Sharon would normally be

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here because she is the project manager. Uh she's the one that handles all the details associated with making this happen. Uh also with me I have Mr. Middleton of Middleton Construction Company. uh he has experience uh in

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working with uh historic properties and uh we're delighted to have him uh working with us to ensure that we get this done in consistent not only with uh city ordinances in terms of condition uh but also to make sure that it is a

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flagship as as relates to historic district properties. Uh so we're available to you and my wife is the project manager is here by telephone if needed uh to uh to comment if it's appropriate at at that time. Uh

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so I open it up to to the commission uh as far as the application is uh provided and any uh details that you need in terms of uh the kind of uh uh uh materials and the methodology. uh I

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leave to uh to Mr. Middleton to describe to you in detail. >> So just to be clear, it appears that this application is for removing and replacing the woodlap sighting that's that's on the house that that'll be

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cedar clabard sighting and to install a uh the substrates for that as well as new wood for the second floor deck. >> Yes. Okay. So, my only question is, have you folks determined what wood product you want to use for that second floor

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wood deck? >> Uh, Mrs. Hampton was saying she wanted to do bamboo, but we need to see what uh it's going to work and what's acceptable to the commission. >> Okay. So, Kevin, why don't we start with you if you could ask any questions you have. >> Sure. First of all, I'm delighted to see

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this project come in here. I I have to say that I'm just absolutely >> Kevin, could you turn on your mic? I'm sorry. Yeah, start off the meeting right again. >> Um I can't ever seem to remember to turn this on. Um so your your plans are then

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to use um cedar sighting on the outside. Bamboo um is usually acceptable to us. Mahogany would be another choice. There's a number of ones. It just has to be a solid wood, not a wood composite. >> Okay. >> Um so uh I don't really have any other

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questions. I it sound it as I read the um materials checklist it seems as if the window trim is going to be in cedar that's acceptable to us. Um it should be the same size as what's on it. Yeah. Essentially a same for same

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>> replacement. Um railings um usually are are either custom made to match what's on the house already the historic piece or if it's not the historic then something that emulates that. So that would be what we'd look for. And then the cut sheets um you know are usually

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there and I saw the estimates from Carter Lumber and others. So I I'm I'm good at this point. I don't really have any other questions. >> Great B. >> I don't really have any questions. I'd like to echo what Kevin said and so happy to see this being done. House is

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of great historical nature. We're so happy that that this is happening. So >> hey, how you doing? >> Um I just echo what these guys said. We just we're very happy to see this progress on the on the house. I just

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wonder um if you've looked at the sill of the house at all because I have a feeling when you take the siding off, you may discover that the sill has disintegrated >> after going up underneath and exploring and checking everything out. There is a few sections of the sill that's going to

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need to be replaced. >> Okay. So, you're going to >> And they did have a engineer check it out and um >> yeah, we're aware that we do have to replace some of the sills. >> Okay, great. That's it. Thank you. >> Okay. Well, I've I've actually had the pleasure of touring that building with

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your sisters >> and uh you know, delightful people and uh I think this is a great step. This is going to be the one of our cornerstones of the new African-American historical district. So, we really thank the family for proceeding with this.

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All right. >> Yeah, we're I'm just so excited you're here. Thank you. >> That's an honor to do it. >> Yeah, we're very excited. >> This is becoming an evening of echoes. >> I'm going to try not to echo too much.

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Uh I think it's clear to say we've all been very worried about this building >> for a long time and um and what you proposed to do looks like it's going to put it right back into trim again. uh which is which is terrific because you know it's on Lafayette Street and it's a

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major gateway coming into this. Um I see that my application has got no check on it either conceptual or final. Should I assume this is a final >> application? You have no other you have no other boards to apply to, right? No no other permissions to get. >> So we're going to treat it as a final

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approval. Only one other comment and that is that everything in your in your material sheet seems to be in order with respect to a contributing property and Kevin mentioned the choice of wood is but you have a wide choice of decking

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just so long as it's natural wood right so that that part um when when we do these things though it's also good to have a complete um reference to um uh cut sheets so some of the stuff you've referenced here is isn't exactly shown

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to a to a particular cut sheet, but we we can tell from the material sheet what it is you're proposing to do. So, that's not an echo. I pass it on to Tom. >> Thank you. I too. This wonderful anchor to all the work that's been done on

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Franklin leading right up to that house is just a wonderful, wonderful thing. Uh my experience and for and years on here the bamboo has mostly been used as an indoor product and I know it's extremely tough. It wears well. I have not had an

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experience or remember anybody using it outside. So I would urge you to explore how it holds up in an outside environment because there certainly are other woods that we would approve for that. I I mahogany are some of the

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frequent ones that come before us. I I wouldn't wouldn't want you to see the wood that was really not the wrong the right thing for that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. >> And I pretty much echo the same thing that everyone else here said. This is such a key contributing property in the

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historic district. I'm thrilled that you're coming in here and doing these renovations. Um I I >> I see that the doors um are going to be refurbished as well. Yes. >> Um the I and I'm looking at the shutters

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on the on the photographs and I've also go by the house all the time. Um are there anything is there anything planned for the shutters since they're actually kind of doors? Some of them are in decent shape and then I reached out to several u places even up in Lancaster,

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PA where we could probably either uh get those same shutters or they would uh make them for us. And far as the uh doors, that style of door is pretty easy to find. >> Okay. Um and I also um echo Mr. Carol's

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um uh sentiments as far as the the decking on the bamboo. um maybe look at look at that as far as the harder material, something that would hold up. Um yeah, but um thank you for for this application. As soon as I saw it, I was

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thrilled. >> Just to add, if you're trying to get bumbo bamboo out of your yard, it's the toughest thing in the world. >> It has to have some strengths, too. >> I I don't think you're going to homemake the bamboo. Okay, >> hold on a second. I Hold on a second. I

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>> my wife would like to comment or respond to some of the >> items here if that's okay through the through the speaker. >> You want to put her by the microphone there. >> Okay, Sharon, you're on.

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>> Um, thank you for everyone at this point. I understand what you're saying about >> I'm afraid she's not. >> Yeah, we can't. >> We're having a volume problem. Hold on a minute. >> Maybe perhaps put it on speaker. Try try your speaker phone.

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>> Your speaker on? >> I think it is. >> There we go. >> Okay. All right. Sharon. >> Um, as far as my name is Sharon Hampton. Um, as far as the message on the bamboo,

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I've renovated numerous properties, especially here in Florida and other states. Bamboo will be fine. It will hold up. I'm sorry that you just know for it to be used outside. Here in Florida, we actually grow bamboo outside.

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So, the bamboo will be the best for that area that I'm using it for. >> Okay. Thank you. So, Mr. Hampton, Mr. Middleton. >> Pleasure having you here this evening. Thank you very much. >> So, I would like to move that we approve

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this application for final with four clarifications simply because there's a couple of pieces of information that aren't specified on the material checklist. That any wood sills that need to be replaced will match existing. Any wood railings that need to be

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replaced will match existing. Any wood shutters that need to be replaced will match existing. and the wood door if will match existing and those would be my only clarifications. >> Do I hear a second for this? >> Second the motion. >> Mr. Chair. >> Yes.

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>> Would want to do about the decking. >> Oh, >> material. >> Good question. Any further comments about the decking? I would leave to that open to use bamboo, but as I said, urge them to just check into the durability

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of that and have mahogany or IP as a an alternative. >> Uh I I would leave the choice of wood completely to their discretion. >> I would too. >> Agreed. >> Okay. As long as it's wood and not a synthetic material. >> When we say wood, we mean wood. >> So, is is the HPC comfortable with a

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bamboo product with a wood as a backup? >> Yes. >> Just want to be clear about that. >> Yes. Okay, >> I think that's what we're hearing. >> All right. Right. >> Okay. So, with those uh five clarifications, we have a motion on the floor for Mr. Becker, seconded by Mr. Ta. Roll call vote, please.

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>> Mr. Carol, >> yes. >> Miss Bagnum, >> yes. >> Miss Wilson, >> yes. >> Mr. Stevenson, >> yes. >> Miss Decker, >> yes. >> Mr. Ta, >> yes. >> Mr. Becker, >> yes. >> And get a hearing. >> Thank you very much, gentlemen. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Have a good evening.

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>> You too. You too. Next on our application agenda is Shell Cottage 908 LLC at 908 Stockton. >> Good evening. If you could please state your name and your role on the project. >> Yes, of course. Uh my name is Susan Bergos. I am the sole member of uh Shell

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Cottage 908 LLC. >> Oh. >> Um so I'm the owner of the property. >> Terrific. >> Um my contractor unfortunately wasn't able to join me tonight. he had another engagement. >> So Susan, the floor is yours. >> Okay. Um over the uh wonderful winter

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during one of the many storms that we had um I noticed that uh we were missing roof shingles um in the rear building of the property uh which is used as a uh vacation rental property that I take

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care of myself. And um I would just like to replace the roof. >> Okay. So, it seems fairly straightforward. I see no reason to go all the way around the room, but if anybody has any questions or comments, I invite you to make or ask them, please.

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>> Just one. Um, this is checked out as a as a uh contributing property, but I don't think that really means that the garage behind it is also a uh a contributing property. >> Actually, I believe it is, Tom. >> Is it is it in the report as contributing?

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>> It is. >> Okay, that'll do it. Um, apparently that second building shows up on the 1909 Sandborn map. >> Okay. >> It was corrected in 1932, which is still in the period of significance. >> Okay. Fine. >> So, so you are you are just you're going

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to put asphalt fiberglass over the whole room >> if that's okay with you. >> Uh, well, it's certainly okay with with us, especially if you what what do you have on there now? >> It's asbestous tile. >> It's certainly okay with us for that purpose. >> Okay. You don't put things over as >> Yeah, I didn't mean over.

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>> Oh, it would be ro of course. Yes, I apologize. >> I didn't imply that you would be nailing the the new fiberglass over your asbestous shingles. >> No. >> Okay, Mr. The uh the existing roof was that the original roof >> um to my

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>> not with asbesus >> original the original roof the original roof was was a metal roof as according to the uh original surveys. Yeah. But the asphalt roof probably would have been put in after 1932 40 somewhere in there. >> Yeah. My my question would have been

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regarding the diamond shaped pattern now which I don't know whether that's appropriate. Maybe one of our other commissioners could respond to that or >> Mr. Carol, do you have any thoughts about that? >> Yes. That's that uh shape of an asbestous shingle was all over town,

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right? >> And most of those things came in like in the poor days of after the great recession and people for absolute economy uh and no painting responsibilities and fireproofing went for these asbestous shingles. They've

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come off all over town and uh you know they they could last forever but they're also asbestous too. So, you know, before they start breaking up and falling into the soil around the house, it'd be a good way to get them off now. >> Yeah, that answers my question.

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>> Thank you. There's a a comment on the U property report that says that the uh property has exposed roof rafter tails and I don't know if that's on the main property or the back property, but just a point that that usually we try to try to preserve that. >> Of course, I believe that's on the front

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house. >> Okay. You can't tell from the report, so that's why I brought it up. >> Any other comments or questions for this applicant? >> Would anybody like to make a motion for final approval? Motion >> second.

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>> So moved by Mr. Stevenson, seconded by Miss Decker. Roll call vote, please. >> Mr. Carol, >> yes. >> Miss Bagno, >> yes. >> Miss Wilson Shurik, >> yes. >> Mr. Stevenson, >> yes. >> Miss Decker, >> yes. >> Mr. Ta, >> yes. >> Mr. Becker,

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>> yes. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Next applicant, Congress Hall LLC, 251 Beach Avenue. If uh you could please introduce yourself and tell us your role in the project.

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I'm Curtis Bashaw, managing partner, Commerce Hall. >> Robert Shapansky, uh project manager for Commerce Hall LLC. >> Gentlemen, the floor is yours. Thank you. Uh, this presentation tonight outlines

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proposed exterior improvements to historic Congress Hall located at 251 Beach Avenue in K. >> Could you move your mic closer, please? >> We are seeking uh final approval for an entrance awning and third floor balcony located on the rear of the Perry

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Street annex wing. The intent of the project is to improve our guest arrival experience, accessibility, weather protection, and an architectural balance while maintaining the historic character of the building. All proposed improvements have been

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developed with a sensitivity to the historic significance of Congress Hall. Uh we did briefly meet with uh committee members uh one morning just to review concepts and and get our design correct. If you're familiar with Congress Hall,

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the existing photos in the application show um the column spacing on the front of the building, which looks a little congested. Uh the entrance lacks adequate coverage for drop off to guests. Our existing ramps uh will be required for

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reconstruction to accommodate the supports of the new awning structure. And the current facade does not emphasize the importance of the hotel's primary entry, mainly because of changes that were made over the years. So, I'll

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give a little context. If you look at this rendering, the entrance that you see that we've all known for our lives was actually created in the 1920s by Annie Knight. The original entrance is to the left. It's

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the much smaller doors. And all these years since she made that entrance, there's sort of a column right in the middle of the entrance. So, our goal was to modify the column rhythm and to uh make sure the ADA access was in

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good shape. and then to add a canopy over the entrance that would extend out to the driveway that would have heat lamps in it and would also give some coverage. Back in the day, uh Annie Knight didn't run Congress Hall in

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November, December, January, and February. Uh and we think that that will make uh a much better entrance and arrival experience for the guests. the four flags would stay, the column design would stay exactly um as the columns are built and it would be really relocating

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two columns and adding the canopy over the entrance. So, you can see on the detail elevations of a metal awning over the new main entrance, um removed and relocated columns are dashed in lines. And I do have a column

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study that we'll get to to help understand that fenestration. Um, in addition, we'll be changing the ramp slightly to meet code requirements for accessibility uh when we encounter, you know, replacing footings for the the

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new awning itself. The steel awning emulates other awnings that are on historical buildings in large cities um around the United States and the world for that matter. Um it has steel columns. It's a steel frame with a

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wood ceiling underneath an EPDM roof. Some lighting and heating elements on on the underside. And we will be moving our Congress Hall sign forward slightly reshaped um to emphasize the main entrance.

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This exhibit in your packet is our column study. It shows the precise center location of all the existing columns and the proposed center location of the new columns. Uh you can see that the few that are the two that are

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relocated, one is removed by the old entry doorway and it becomes more balanced. The spacing as you can see varies from column to column. They've moved around a lot over the years. I'm sure there's an addition to the west. Uh there was changes to the entrance in the

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center and now they're roughly closer to 15 and a half feet on center except for the new main entrance where we double the columns at 8' 3 in on center to pronounce the entrance to Congress Hall.

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There will still be 55 columns um colossal column columns as they're described in the report and we're not making any aesthetic changes to the wood columns that we're moving. >> Okay.

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>> Should I do part two? Part two is a balcony. It's attached to the end of the uh description here. This exhibit shows a elevation a portion of uh our annex Perry wing that runs along Perry Street. We have an existing deck

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over the first floor that's utilized by room 247. We're proposing a small balcony for the third floor that would be utilized for 347. We have reviewed the standards and we have designed this element to emulate

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those standards by pulling it inside of the building. We are not exact replicating the existing balconies on Congress Hall with something a little different the way that it looks now on the top of 247 so

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that it's not taking away too much. For scale, we've reduced the size of the required railing slightly and added a 6-in safety rail at the top so that the scale and balance of this new structure looks appropriate with the height of the building.

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>> That's also what we did on the Congress Hall balconies themselves when we renovated that building in 200 two. uh we kept the original railings that were shorter and we added a horizontal bar to get the height and and

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keep the required 4 in or less gaps for safety. So um in in addition in your packet there are details of these two structures and the entrance and we're happy to take questions from the

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commission. >> Okay. So let's go around the room. Start with you this time, Lorraine, please. >> Sure. Um I I like the well the entrance. You're calling it the main entrance, but I kind of call it the back entrance. Um

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the rhythm of the columns feels right. The way I'm seeing it in the rendering, it just feels like it's a you know, it's a it's a um inviting entrance. Um I'm seeing the steel awning as like a portico now. Am I correct? That's kind

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of what I'm because it does protrude out 14 ft. It's pretty um it's pretty substantial. Um I don't know if you can really see it on that front elevation, but I I see that that would fit the the building. Um uh the architectural uh part of the building. I'm glad that

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you're keeping the flags and having them flanking each side of that entrance. Um and I I don't see a problem with the um with the with the railing. it it's keeping in fit with uh the rest of the um the the balcony that we have on the I

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guess on the front right hand side is where it would be. Um it it fits everything else that you know that's around Congress Hall especially on the front part of it on the Lshape. Um I think it was very well thought out. I

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appreciate it. Thank you. I have no problem with the position of the columns or the work going on in the back, but since many times before uh Robert, you've been here presenting things successfully and now the owner of the building is here. So, I'm going to drop

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again a hint that we've dropped before that returning the shutters to the building would be one of the most outstanding things that would bring that building back to its original appearance. We know it's expensive, but that would really be wonderful. There

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are shutters not shown on this on the whole first floor of the building currently. Operable shutters. It's the second and third floor that you long for and that one day will happen. >> Will I live that long? >> Uh oh, we hope so.

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>> I hope I do too. >> I'm done. >> Okay. So, I'm not going to add any more musings about what we'd add to the building. I'm just going to try and judge the application the way it's been submitted. Um I I think that my primary

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goal here is to be sure that what's proposed doesn't threaten at all the key contributing status of the building. I mean that that to me is something we have to preserve. So there's to my way of thinking there's a lot of leeway in in looking at um how to adjust these

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things which would still preserve uh the uh the status and not threaten it. There was something of an eclectic distances between those columns. they just didn't always match up to in terms of spacing. If you're going to create a

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new entrance, uh you aren't going to be able to do it with the existing column spacing. So, I think takes it's taken as a given that you need to have some rearrangement of the columns in order to to to surround the the new entrance. your your choice of how to put them in

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to me looks very very aesthetically pleasing. Even though it's not the original configuration of columns, it it still takes a a pair of them on each side of of the new entrance and it and it uses them to frame the entrance. So,

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um to me, the arrangement and spacing of the columns does not detract from the key contributing status of the building. I think that the the Port Coser is a big on the big side, but it's a big building and and so it it needs to reach out and

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do the things it it does. Um that that would be my only concern a little bit about the size of the Port Cusher. Um and and moving on to the adjacent building with the railings. Uh, I I think that you've uh you've well taken the proportions of those railings and

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fitted them appropriately to create the new balcony on the on the Is it an annex? What was it? >> Well, yes, the Perry wing. >> It was a staff building originally. It was the service building for Congress Hall. It was um well, I lived there as a

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a worker in 1976. Uh but it was converted to guest rooms in 2002. and and the step back looks really fine in terms of the the first balcony and then the smaller balcony up above. So I've I have no difficulty with

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that at all. Pass. >> Hi. >> Hi. Um, so it looks beautiful and I'm wondering when you went through the whole review and did the beautiful renovation in 2000,

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there was a lot of attention on what could or could not be changed. And it I am lucky enough to sit in my living room and look at that gorgeous building anytime I want. Um, so I'm wondering that was not the original

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entrance, right? The original entrance was toward the beach. >> No. Uh, the original entrance was on that side and it was right here. >> So, it was much smaller. If you look at

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the facade, it doesn't show here now, but there was clearly a sill above the entrance. There was probably a small balconet there. Then uh when Mr. Ramagosa and uh

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>> Mr. Sam >> Mr. Sam man renovated it in the early 60s. They added the driveway from Beach that went up around a circular driveway. There was a carriage in the middle of it

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and that really the building functioned with the main entrance on Congress place and the other side was a big backyard to the ocean. Uh in 2002 we took out that

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driveway and we really made the Congress place entrance the primary entrance again. uh and restored the lawn to the way it was, you know, more from the beginning of the hotel until the 1950s.

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Did that answer your question? >> Okay. Yeah. So, um that that was my primary question similar to Jim's about I'm not an architectural historian. um the key contributing status is really

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important and so any change that would be a fairly substantial change is one that I don't feel personally qualified to say that's okay or that's not okay.

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It looks good. It looks symmetrical. Um I don't have any any issues with that. and the portica share. It's It's kind of hard for me to imagine how large that is or how it will dominate. Will this will the

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sign stay the same or will the >> the sign that is there was put up in 2002? Right. >> It was made to replicate the sign that's on the other side of the building going to the beach that's much

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smaller. So, if you walk in from the beach up into the main entrance, you'll see a smaller metal sign that had cut. It actually has blown glass letters that spell out Congress Hall. So, we tried to emulate that in a larger way over this

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entrance in 2002. Brian Demuse made that sign, by the way. And um if you look closely at this, that entrance from the 1920s is quite wide. There's two doors and there's two side lights. And we have basically made the

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port kosher as wide as that with the column supports proud of both sides of that entrance. And then we also have the handicap ramps that come up along the building. They're

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fairly innocuous, but there's a turning radius you need to have for the chairs. So the width is really um and it's it's within the columns also. So we try to keep it not too imposing. It it it comes

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out just about a foot or 18 in past the front column line and a much smaller sign will be there more like the scale of the sign on the other side of the building. metal sign with the the glass

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letters as the existing one, but it will be a a little more visible because it won't be cut by the colonade and it will just sit really in line with the existing columns >> and the doors they'll remain

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>> stay the same. >> Okay, >> looks good. >> Thank you. I just wanted to comment on the misaligned column um that about five or six years ago a straight line wind came through and blew one of your columns down and part of

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your roof. I live two blocks behind there. I lost two 200-y old Dutch elms. >> So I mean over the course of 150 years there may have been similar incidents that resulted in a misplaced column. And uh so I mean I think you also you have

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the principle of celebrating an entrance. So when people know where to go, it's clearly this is the entrance. I think you've achieved that with this. And the canopy, it kind of reminds me of the Benjamin Franklin Hotel in Philly. I believe they had that on Chestnut

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Street, whether Tom would know. >> Yes. Like that metal. >> Yes. Okay. But I mean I think it looks nice. Thank you. >> Um, now that you've explained the change

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in the columns, I do understand, of course, what you're attempting to do. You certainly don't want a column in front of your door. I didn't know that, actually. I thought the original door was in the L facing the ocean. So, thank you for that. I know how how much you cared for this building, and I I want to

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thank you. This is an icon on the whole eastern seabboard. I'm a little concerned about the poor cashier. Um, are you trying to emulate the 1920s because it it looks to me a little bit like a theater entrance with all the

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lights? I I'm I'm not sure why what the architectural references to this type of roof as opposed to something that would be, you know, an 1879 look for this roof. We weren't trying to emulate a

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particular period. We looked uh with the architect at a lot of different ports. We wanted it to feel intentional and not like a modern port kosher that you would find in Atlantic City. We didn't

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want to bring it out so that the cars could drive under it, but we did want to It's very windy at that entrance, and we wanted to create um sort of a comfort zone within that high

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porch to to to protect people from the wind and the rain as they get out of their car. So, um you know, we settled on this look because of the um you know, we wanted to do the iron supports, which would have

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been something a Victorian building would have and uh so so there wasn't an attempt to go for a certain period. the lighting, you know, we have a a version of that with the

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light bulbs concealed. Um, actually, it was a You'll see it. Bob will get it up. Uh, there was a um there is was uh something

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exactly like that on the other side of the building by the entrance to the dining room. So that was sort of glass panes that came down and the lights are behind it. So if that's >> We're not We're open to comments on that

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detail. >> I like that a lot better >> because it doesn't have that dance hall look. >> Well, I'm glad to hear you say that because when I saw that he had the other we had the other drawing up. This is my preference, too.

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>> I like that better. So, um, >> that's just me. >> I think it's nice to have sometimes the the old light bulbs screwed in are really cute in different applications. Uh, but in this instance, I think if you prefer that, we would be more than immunable to that.

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>> Well, you don't have to clean them as much. I think that especially if you're emulating an entrance that was already there on the side, I like that. also as a preservationist. I I kind of wish we had a little bit more of a like a color

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rendering like of that. But I mean that's a better rendering. I I like that better. I don't know how everyone else feels, but um thank you so much for your time. I have no problem with the u the little balcony for the room. I think that's very nice. Love an ocean view.

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>> And I I uh John explained a little bit more about why the columns were moving. The columns will be the same proportions as the existing. Okay. I mean, thank you again for Congress Hall. It's just beautiful. I remember when it was really in trouble.

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>> I was very concerned. So, we're very appreciative of everything you do for this icon. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Great building. Great place. >> Well, I was sitting at my desk after school. kept looking at this and this I

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found to be the most helpful page where I saw the discrepancy that believe it or not I have never really noticed and I think that this is an excellent plan. I love the idea of the port koscher. Um es

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especially if the lighting is soft you know and welcoming and uh it was very interesting to see the difference in all of these. I I have no problems with any of it. So, first of all, in the interest of full disclosure, the plans for this were

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presented to the small group. Um, and we had number of comments on it back then. Um, this is materially like what we saw in the in the small group. So, and and of course our perspective was this was a it did require a full commission review.

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Um, just a couple of comments. one is um given that this was not the original main entrance on this side, I think um the original entrance did have a sense of balance and now this is restoring a sense of balance. So to me that's you know that's that's fine with the um changing around of the columns and there

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the locations of those columns that makes total sense to me and it does pre present ultimately a a sense of um a balance among the columns and I think that's the way the architect would have wanted it and would have designed it. So, um, the two- deck option that was on

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there was, as I recall, there were several different options and this was sort of the least intrusive and the most um it felt like the most historically accurate um kind of modification that could be made to that. So, uh I think that was that was one of the things that

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led to the choice of that option as as as we see it. Um, a couple of other points. One is the canopy. You know, actually, I don't remember seeing that canopy, and I was going to say I think I like that one better, too. Um, but even the other one was was fine with me. I

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what it called to mind for me was the Waldorf Histori in New York. It kind of looks a little like that, the the squared off one. And I think that it's a very attractive one in in the in that environment, and I think it would have been fine in this one. But I do like that that that little rounded one. And

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if that is representative of what was on the other side, then I think absolutely that would be the one we would prefer. Um, we'll need to see cut sheets of the materials and things like that when you get closer to final design and everything else just to make sure that those are all in the in the file. And

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um, and the same with the lighting and landscaping plan for any modifications that you make to that entrance as well. That's just typical of what we require here. >> That's it. So to clarify, um, you just referenced conceptual, but it appears as if this is a final submission. Is that

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correct? >> That's what we're seeking, but we we could accept the condition of turning in a detailed plan prior to >> Okay. >> But you don't have any other approvals you need to get for the project. >> No, not for this. >> This is the only board that you're

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>> correct. Yeah, the the existing deck uh the canopy is under a canopy, so it doesn't technically change diversion. Uh as well as the balcony is on a balcony, so it doesn't technically change diversion. >> So, I find this really well done. And

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one of the things that I'm impressed by is the column spacing as they currently exist. I know everybody's talked about that, but it ranges from about 9 and 1/2 ft to 16 and 1/2 ft. It's all over the place. mostly that becomes erratic on this end. So by cleaning it up and placing the two

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pairs of closer space columns on either side of the entrance as Mr. Stevenson said, you're really celebrating this entrance. And that would have been a a move that absolutely would have been made throughout history since well Roman times actually um that we see

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consistently across pretty much all epochs and eras of architecture. I also find the canopy um the porc really delightful. Um there was uh just from personal experience I that entrance was added in what late 20s? Yeah. I worked

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on a a Federal Reserve Bank in Pittsburgh that's now a hotel that was built in late 20s early 30s and that very similar to that kind of a canopy. So the question I have about it is this is this is painted steel. So it'll be

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metal that's painted. Correct. >> Yes. And so the little dots are medallions. They're not lights. Right on the face of the canopy. >> Those are stars, I believe. >> Oh. >> Or is it floor dele? >> One or the other. >> Yeah. It's a detail that would be, you

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know, >> a metal. Yes. And it would be look as if it's part of the structure. >> Perfect. Okay. Um, so the only question I have really is about the lighting itself. I was questioning the lighting in the sections that you showed us because it

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was so visible. The rendering you brought this evening changes that and I find it far more preferable. It won't be nearly as distracting to the eye. The question is I'm trying to figure out what those little scallop pieces are. Are those pieces of metal or is that fabric or what is that?

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>> Those were pieces of um like a milk glass. >> Oh, even nicer. So will the will the lamps themselves the bulbs >> be behind it? Okay. >> And the milk glass would glow. So it wouldn't >> but from but from a distance as you get closer you'll actually be able to see

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the light source once you get closer. Right. >> When you get underneath of it. >> Got it. Okay. Great. So the only comment I have about that is I would I would like to request that the temperature of that lighting be no more than 2500 degrees Kelvin. So >> we 100% agree with you.

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>> All right. Of course you do. I knew you would. Um so the only thing that I have any cause for concern about is the application is a little bit incomplete. >> Okay. >> Um the materials checklist doesn't specify

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it says fascia steel but where is that? So probably should say on the porc doesn't have any materials for columns, railings, decking or signage. So, I think what we need to see, and I think we can do this conditionally, is a revised material spreadsheet that every

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single material that you're using is indicated on this spreadsheet. We need that for two reasons. One is that's what we're approving. Second is that then gives our field representative something as a reference to make sure that what's being installed is what's approved. It's really

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>> for your protection and ours. That's great. That's fine. >> Okay. >> Other than that, I I I find this really delightful. Um, and I would like to move that we approve this as a final application with the condition that you submit a finalized

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materials checklist along with the revised elevation on A201 showing that canopy and a revised section on A301 showing that canopy. >> Mr. Chair, >> yes. >> Uh, would that come back to the work group? >> Yes. >> On Tuesday. Okay. >> Yeah. that that

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>> not back to the writer. >> If if if that's that's if you guys find that acceptable, >> we've had situations where this kind of stuff is is approved by the review committee. >> So those are those are the three conditions that I would ask. >> Great. So moved.

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>> I will second. Okay. Final approval with those conditions moved by Mr. Becker, seconded by Mr. Carol. Roll call vote, please. >> Mr. Carol, >> yes. >> Missagno, >> yes. >> Miss Wilson, >> yes. >> Mr. Mr. Stevenson. >> Yes.

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>> Ms. Decker. >> Yes. Mr. Tessa. >> Yes. >> Mr. Becker. >> Yes. Thank you. >> I want to congratulate you all on 50 years and I'm so sorry I missed the dinner of the century. I heard it was just amazing. I was very uh reflective

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coming here tonight cuz I believe my first hearing in front of this board was in like 1983. We were starting on the Virginia Hotel. So while it's not the full 50 years, it's only seven years in to the history

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of the board. So um you've accomplished a lot the whole town has together and um nice to see everybody and thanks for your hard work. >> You >> welcome. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Rob. >> Okay,

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moving on. Um we have I'm likely going to mispronounce this. Inaone at 10:45 Washington Street. I must recuse myself from this deliberation due to proximity since my

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home is less than 200 ft away. So I'd like to turn this over to Mr. Ta. >> Okay. You want to take your seat in the audience? >> Okay. Welcome and make your presentation. Please identify yourself. We all know who you are, but for the

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record, please please give us uh the details. Thank you. I'm Pamela Fine with Fine Architecture. I'm the project architect. Um I'm here tonight representing my client Ron Ayanna Con I believe is how you pronounce that. >> Depends on whether you want to Italian

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way. >> I could be wrong. I don't know. >> In Italian it's Yanukon. >> Uh so I'm sure as you know uh the location of this particular house is right across the street from the Emlin Physic Estate. It's very prominent area,

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very prominent corner. Um, so, uh, we are coming here tonight to do a fairly involved renovation. Um, as you can see on the plans, um, most of it on the first floor is interior and really doesn't change much on the outside. Uh,

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but on the second floor plan, we're actually proposing a rear edition. Um, right now, the way it sits today, the rear of the house has one story. Um, basically a a third of the house at the rear is one story. So, we're proposing a

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second story on that portion. Um, I had the pleasure of coming a few months ago, sitting with John, sitting with Kevin um before we did construction drawings because I wasn't quite sure on the roof the design, you know, is it too much? Is it not enough? Um, so they they gave me

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some pointers which uh I relayed to the owners and I think we came up with a uh option that has the uh the intent that we discussed um and gave them the ability to have everything they wanted on the second floor. Uh so basically I'm

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going to jump to the A4 sheet where you see on the front elevation along Skeleer or Shelinger uh however you want to pronounce that. Um, basically that area along the back, uh, upper right corner,

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um, where I have that box around that roof, that's the area that we're adding on. Um, I chose to do a mansered roof along the back because I felt that was a really nice, um, complement to the

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mansered roof along the front of the house. Um, the middle of the house basically has like a flat roof. you really doesn't have um a lot of uh um visible roof area. So, I wanted something to kind of balance uh the back

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of the house with that front. So, I have a mansered roof shown. Um it's basically taking the same concept, same character of that front mansered roof, just scaled down. So, it's not as high. Um it's not as prominent and heavy. Um but it still

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has that same character. And I think it is a really nice balance um when when all is said and done. Um unfortunately, and I really did push for this, uh I wanted them to redo and take off the

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asbestous, but not this not at this point. Um but we are proposing wood clabboard on the addition. Um there is wood clabboard under the asbestous. Eventually, we will take that off and uh you know, basically complete the project

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with the wood. Um but right now, we're just proposing the wood clapboard on the back. Um brand new windows. They'll be the Colby uh pre-primed non-clad uh double hung. Measured the uh existing um

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window um grills so that we have the width matching what was there. um dimensions, everything on the existing windows. We're just basically replacing the windows with the Colby wood windows. Um same goes with the shutters. Same

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idea, same character, same proportion. Shutters along the side, along Scallinger, along the back, along the pool side of the house. Uh so basically wrapping the entire house with new shutters that match what's there. Um,

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back onto the roof. Uh, the existing roof um the Manser roof along the front is the um uh asphalt roof shingles. So, we're just basically doing a direct replacement of that. And then the new Mansard will have

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the uh asphalt roof shingles as well. Um you'll see some metal roofing being called out. We do have new metal roofing going on that front porch and uh along the two um accent roofs that we're adding on the on the two sides. Um that

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would be the 1-in standing seam metal roof. Um I do want to highlight I think this was a a big thing that was a really nice um architectural moment. Um and it kind of delineates where we added on to what is existing. Uh, and you'll see on

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Skinger and on the other uh long side of the building, we have these two areas that are recessed in. Um, each with a window, each with a little roof below that kind of provides a transition between the existing corner, the back

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corner, the existing second floor that stays intact. This recessed wall length then delineates where this new addition starts. Um and then it also provides a moment for where the rear edition and

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the manserved roof, the new manserved roof takes place. So I think that's a nice transition. Um you know it's a helpful um idea given to me during the meeting. So um very appreciative of that. I think it really does help the

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design as a whole uh read and you can you can definitely have uh a narrative of saying this was the old house, you know, this direction and this was added on. So I think that that makes it really easy uh to describe this house and what

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is historic and versus what is new. Um the other part of this project is the detached garage. So, the detached garage is basically receiving the same as the house as the addition. New clapboard, new windows, new doors, new roofing, uh,

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new trim. So, right now, the garage has like T111. Um, needs a lot of work. So, we're just going to basically give it a little little love and make it match the uh the proposed addition.

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I think that's it. >> Great. Okay. So, how about if we start from right field and work our way across this way. >> Um I do have to say that um how you designed this to mirror the front. Um I appreciate that. I I think it uh really

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mimics what you know the architectural style of the of the structure. Um, but I'm also reminded at our HPC, um, when we had our architectural historians here, they were talking about massing. So, I'm just going to, you know, mention that just looking at it on Skellingers,

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you know, it it just, you know, just walking down that real small street. Um, that's really my only concern about that. Um on the proposed work that you have uh on the application, it says there's um the metal standing seam roof.

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You're doing the metal standing seam roof on the front porch as well as the shed. Am I correct? >> That's correct. >> Because it said locations, and I wasn't quite sure those are the only two locations. >> Yes. So the front wraparound porch, um the shed, and then we have two accent

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roofs that are new along the side. >> Okay. Um, those are my only comments, but thank you. >> Thank you. >> I have to say you've learned an awful lot by attending meetings over having the segway to tie the two buildings

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together. Uh, the back roof is a little bit lower than the front. Uh, lined up from the street. You're not really seeing at the back. Uh, I I think it's very well done. Um, I would like to add if we can one more permission that would

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be good for the next two years that you could go ahead and remove the asbestous shingling on the front. Well, uh, without coming back to us and restore the clampboard and then we would have siding that would match from the front and the back.

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>> Thank you. >> Is that legal to add up? Well, we're going to have a ruling on that, but uh if it is and we want to do that, we can >> potentially incorporate it as a condition to this. If you want to provide, you know, a two-year approval for that to be done.

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>> Well, our approvals run out after two years. So, if they if they don't do anything within the two-year period, it would run out. But, you know, that might give them the the leeway to say, my gosh, we could finish this off while we got the teams here and working.

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Well, this could be the first instance we've ever approved like something like that in advance. We'll take it up. Let's do the comments around the table first. Okay. >> So, I just want it's it's a good design and I echo Tom's comment about how

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beautiful it would be if the asphalt was removed. And I also want to mention that we will be doing another awards program in a few years and your client might actually be very interested that the

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architectural historians who look at these additions are always looking at the massing and the sensitivity and the quality of materials and anything like that that's done to restore the original material to the visual public.

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>> Okay? Because these buildings are gifts to the street. And that's a little carrot. >> It's a big carrot. >> Jake, >> beautiful plaque. >> I just have one question regarding the

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windows. >> Yes. >> Um I see that the exterior muttons and it says um performance divided lights. Is that true? >> True. >> Right. There's a piece in between the double paint. Yes. Yeah. And I think that shows up in the in the cut sheet. >> Yeah. But I'm I didn't know what

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performance >> right >> provided lately, >> but um thank you. I think it's a nice job. >> Thank you, >> Miss DeA. >> Yes. I I just You're not going to put six over one no over four. >> It's how it's drawn in the Yeah. in the

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elevations. >> Um I also think it's a really nice design. And I guess you're going to echo the red roofing material as well on the >> I don't think we really talk about color, but I can mention that if that's a important >> I just have one comment. I always think your designs are very sensitively done

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and appropriate and I was intrigued by this little canopy roof. That's not You explained that you why you were doing it, but if I were the homeowner, I would like that to extend over these doors because so the rain doesn't go on me when I come in my doors.

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>> And on the other side, you do have it over the doors, >> right? >> So, it's just a suggestion. Um, you did say this is recessed, >> the the second floor portion of it is. >> Yes. I just have a feeling after the fact they may come back and wish that

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they had put a canopy over their side bench. >> I'll mention it. Yeah. >> And and it and it could be a return for something. >> And I I also um think Tom's idea was a was a good one. That would be a very nice incentive um for the owners. >> Thank you.

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>> Thank you, B. >> I particularly like the way you have mimicked the mansered roof and I have no other questions. They've been answered throughout. So, thank you. Um well, two things. One is uh just to note that the garage is also historic as noted in the property report. It was constructed in

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the 1920s. So the sensitivity on that building even is is nice to see. And I I think it's a lovely design. I mean is typical I guess I would say. I mean very sensitive to the symmetry and balancing of the house. And I just think it's a very nice design.

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>> Thank you. So now now I understand why it's always great for the chair to go last in making our comments because I can let all the all the ideas flow before I get to it. This this to me looks like you have um to echo Tom's words um come and learned

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from all the the experiences about how to do additions both from our standards and from the discussions that you have in meetings beforehand because um when it comes to um and I'm going to address the Skellinger piece um it it is um the

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case that this addition is subordinate. It's definable. uh it can it can be picked out as uh as as as being uh an addition to the but it's consistent with the rest of the structure as far as I see it and the and the sort of funny

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thing is that one thing that that helps differentiate it until you get rid of the asbestous is that your clabid is different from your asbestous. So it shows two different um overlaps um at this point which clearly shows us that

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it's it's an addition. Now all incentive aside, it would be a great idea to get rid of the asbestous and go back to to to that uh to to the collaborate all around. So u I I think that um there's there's very little that could be done to to criticize this design. It's it

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ticks off all the things you got to do in order to have an addition. Uh, I I did note that that you you're talking about the standing seam metal roof and I don't see it on the materials sheet. Have I missed that? >> See, it's

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>> the materials checklist. >> Yeah, the roof. It just says newer roof with asphalt shingles to match. Yeah. Right. And and and of course when we do that that um it's always good to have and you've you've touched some of these things by actually showing the manufacturer and and essentially the cut

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sheets in your submission rather than separate cut sheets. So it's a little tough to follow but the the metal roof was kind of missing an action >> right? >> Um but it's your representation >> that was a late addition actually. >> Your representation it's a standing one inch standing seam metal roof. Yes.

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>> Okay. Um, are we are we good in terms of comments? Anything further to be said? Let's let's talk about the about the two-year thing. Well, as maybe as a condition of approval, I think we if it's going to be

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removed, I think the HBC would like to see the asbestous removed, but then maybe what the applicant can do is if they elect to exercise that, they can provide a replacement cut sheet material to the review committee for approval and just kind of preview that that would be streamlined if if they want to go that

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route. So the HPC would like to see that removed in connection with this >> and provide sort of like, you know, a fast track for the applicant to accomplish that because that's the outcome that the HPC would like to see. >> And I I think we're going to we're going to let Chris write that up in terms of the way it appears.

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>> I don't I don't think that's I don't think that's going to be stop the project from being completed if the applicant doesn't do it, but it would provide an opportunity for the >> opportunity. An option, right? Yeah. An option. >> Okay. >> An option to do it. So, with that said, uh, and the option, uh, included, uh,

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and if there are any other conditions, I'm willing to hear them, but I'd make a motion to approve this application as submitted. >> How about the options? And and another one would be a a um

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a little shade over the other doorway to keep the >> keep rain from >> Well, um >> if if you'd like to approve that in advance, I think it's something that they could come back to the review committee when they have another project. >> Yeah, that's fine. I mean, she has to

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>> you'd have to run that past your clients. It was just a suggestion. >> I would rather see us review what comes if there's a modification to the shape of the building. I'd rather see us review that either in review because it fits the design standards or by by full hearing. So, I don't think that's

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something I would make sense for for this. But so, we'll do the motion with the um the option to uh to remove the asbestous and substitute for wood. That's my motion. >> I will second. >> Okay. Made and seconded. So, we're ready

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for a roll call vote. Lauren, please. >> Mr. Carol, >> yes. >> Miss Bagno. Yes, >> Miss Wilson Sherik. >> Yes, >> Mr. Stevenson. >> Yes, >> Miss Decker. >> Yes, >> Mr. Hammer. >> I'm still in alternate. You still have

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>> M. Mr. Tessa, >> I think a recusal let you vote. >> I think you're you would be voting on this because you you would be voting on this, Kevin. >> Is there still a majority of commission? >> You would be seven. I think because we have we have eight with John. So, you'd

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be the seventh. I I I I agree. I approve, >> Mr. Ta. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Really nice. Nice job, P. >> Mr. Chair. >> Okay, >> back to you.

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>> Moving on. Next applicant is Okconor at 1226 Lafayette Street. Thank you, sir. >> If you folks would please state your name and your role in the project. >> I'm Brian Okconor. I'm a owner.

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>> Vicky Okconor, owner. >> Paul Farnon, architect. Well, folks, the floor is yours. >> Would you like to start? Oh, good. Okay. Uh, good evening, commissioners. Uh, appreciate your time here tonight. Uh, understand there's a few other

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applications, so I hope to be concise with this one. Um, we're here discussing 1226 Lafayette Street, block 1129, lot 10 here with Brian and Victoria O' Conor applicants and property owners. Uh, the

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building is non-contributing single family residents. Uh, is in the historic district seeking final approval. previously received conceptual approval in September on September 16th, 2024.

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Uh at that time two conditions uh were requested. One was the application of shutters to the front facade which we have appli which we have applied um and the second was for wood decking in lie of a fiberglass or polyurea

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uh decking monolithic was the word um that was used. So, we uh propose mahogany tongue and groove wood decking. Uh we did receive zoning board of adjustment approval on June 26th of 2025. So, this would be the last

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application, last hearing. That's effectively it. If you have any specific questions about how we got here, um obviously we did get the conceptual approval and um we got that engaging the uh the commissioners at the Tuesday meetings somewhat regularly.

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>> So I think what you're saying is the only change from the conceptual review is the adding of the shutters. Is that correct? >> And the decking. >> And the decking. And the decking. Okay. So, um, this also seems relatively straightforward to me, but I would like to offer any of you to have any comments

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or questions rather than going around the room. >> Can you microphone please? We typically ask for the uh lighting and landscaping plan. The lighting is in that. I found it actually in the materials, but there's not a landscaping plan. I come

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to u review committee. Um, >> is I'm sorry, Kevin, you were saying there is. I thought we had one. >> Yeah, there's one. >> Yeah, right here. >> It's page. >> I don't think it's number

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>> It's after the site plan. >> Should be Oh, 16. Yeah, >> 16. Is this what he's >> I'm sorry. What What page we You said that a lighting plan is here and it is >> not a not a lighting plan. Landscaping plan page 16.

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>> Okay. Landscaping is submitted. Lighting is not. >> Yeah. Lighting is on page 17. Lighting is on page 17. We don't have spec we don't specifically have a lighting plan per se. >> Just >> correct. Yeah. Not indicating any kind

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of lumen lumen ratings or anything. >> Other questions or comments from anyone else up here? Please. on uh one of your final pages, you're showing uh shutters. These are interior shutters behind the windows that hold

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inside. They're not exterior shutters. >> No. So on every side except for the front facade, it they're Bahama Bermuda shutters are proposed. On the front-facing facade, they're standard hinged shutters proportional to the

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window opening itself. But I'm right. These mount inside the the window >> in the frame. >> Oh, in in the frame. >> Yeah, >> correct. >> Yeah. >> You operating from inside when you just want to >> No, no, I'm sorry. That's I'm mistaken

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what the question is then. >> They're they're stationary on the outside. >> Correct. >> On the sides. >> Correct. >> Right. And then on the front you have >> standard shutters. >> Correct. That's on >> page 22 stationary.

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>> Yeah, they're stationary. They're like this. >> Okay. Yeah, that's correct. >> Yep. I would just like to add that taking this nondescript little house, this is a wonderful, wonderful achievement of

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changing the entrance, giving it the second floor, the trim, and really making it come right in keeping with other things that we pride that is our pride and joy in the neighborhood. Thank you. >> Thank you. Appreciate that.

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So, I only have a couple of comments. This is beautifully done. >> I hope you guys are happy with it. >> Yeah, we are. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Very happy. >> I only have two comments. One is there aren't the one thing that we I think need to see are railing details. I'll

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defer to Mr. Carol to give you a little bit of advice, please. Uh on railing design, the rule is that there can only be a 4 inch uh maximum opening. Uh for wood rails like that, to keep them in keeping with others in the

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town, we request that the post in the center be no smaller than an inch and 3/4 and the opening between them uh be no more than three inches. that gives the bulk of the material and the opening

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to fit in. Uh, putting a strong cap railing on the top also helps bring it down. And you'll see examples all over town of railings that have been done in different ways and and some of them are very pleasing to the from the outside

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and also very pleasing for the people inside and trying to enjoy privacy but as well as a view a combination of two things that you want. >> Okay. So >> the only other comment I have is that I noticed that you are extending the brick

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chimney and I think that it would be helpful to add to your materials checklist under other that the brick for the extended chimney will match existing. Is that accurate? >> Correct. >> Perfect. >> Yeah, we can certainly add that. >> So those would be the only two

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conditions that I would propose details and brick to match the existing chimney. Any other comments? >> And those conditions to be put in front of the review committee. >> Correct. or bring before the review committee. >> Other than that, I think uh would like to entertain a motion for final approval

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based upon those. Oh, I'm sorry, Judy. >> I didn't have a chance to give com. >> Oh, I'm sorry. We were just >> ask if anybody had questions. >> Yeah, we weren't going around the room, so please. >> Yeah. Um I just think you're going to be really happy with your new home. I appreciate it. I'm a little concerned about the tree. I hope the tree is going

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to be respected. >> Oh, >> yeah. We're concerned about it too and we are going to have an expert look at it and hopefully we'll um you know not hopefully we're going to do everything to protect the tree. >> Yeah. I I wasn't on the commission when this first came in but I worked here and

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I remember it had picture windows in the front and I remember being disturbed and I just think it's really beautiful and it's really interesting that it mirrors >> the Steven Smith house the facade circa 1846 right down the street. It's just so so interesting. Yes.

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>> Um >> the elderly woman who used to live there, she used to sit outside it every day. She's still there, so she's going to be happy. Uh >> too, >> I think it's a a wonderful um addition to Lafayette Street. So, congratulations. Thank you very much. >> Thank you guys. >> Yeah, I'd like to say the same. It's

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going to be really fun to this transformation. >> Thank you. We'll have a barbecue when we're done. You guys are all welcome. So entertain a motion to approve it with those the two conditions previously

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raised. >> I'll move to approve. >> Second. >> So moved by Miss Wilson Stritic. Seconded by Miss Bagno. Roll call vote, please. >> Mr. Carol, >> yes. >> Miss Bagno, >> yes. >> Miss Wilson Strick. >> Yes. >> Mr. Stevenson. >> Yes.

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>> Mr. Decker? >> Yes. >> Mr. Test? >> Yes. >> Mr. Becker? >> Yes. Thank you very much. >> Thank you all. >> Thank you all very much. >> Welcome. Thank you. >> Next application, please, and I may mispronounce this. Adis Incorporated at

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1317 Beach Avenue. >> So, one uh one thing to mention is these folks came before us in the review committee on a Tuesday morning and what they're submitting is exactly what they had shown to us. >> Oh, okay. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. Please state your name and

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your role in the project. >> Good evening, Franchesca. >> Please uh yes, just hit that button. >> Good evening. I'm Franchesca Santoro, president and CEO of Addis, Inc. This is our architect representing the company, Bill Mccle.

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>> Good evening. >> Good evening. The floor is yours. So uh as you mentioned I believe uh some of your commission members are aware of some of the details of the application because our client came before you in

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one of the informal sessions. The um proposal before you is to uh position five perglas in front of the existing restaurant along Beach Avenue. Um four of them would be 12x4 and one of them

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will be 10 x 12. We prepared a site plan which shows their locations and an enlarged plan on that sheet shows the reasoning behind why there's one that's smaller than the others. Uh in addition to that, there's also a um and correct me if I'm wrong, Franchesca, but it's

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custom constructed planter. >> Yes. >> With uh flowers proposed to be planted. And all of this was um was kind of um envisioned to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the country uh coming up.

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So the planter uh organizes uh red, white and blue flowers in the shape of the American flag which will be on an angle and visible from Beach Avenue. Um the pergolas were initially intended to

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be temporary but it is our understanding that there is a preference that they be permanent. So we're happy to kind of pursue that. Um those pergolas will be also planted. They will be planted with Mandeville uh MandeL and um the lighting

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that's currently at that uh terrace will be reworked to obviously accommodate the pergolas but will continue to be there. Um there are cut sheets that are provided for the pergolas and um detailed drawings of the custom planter

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that is proposed on the lawn. planter will be removed after uh the season and parallel will stay. >> So I noticed that on your application that you've checked that this is a conceptual submission or are you seeking finals approval tonight? Okay. So

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everyone we can change this. >> You have no other final approvals to get for this. >> Are there no implications with zoning? >> We're going to go to >> We do have to go to planning board. We just have to keep it at conception. >> That's what that's why it's conception. Thank you. >> Well, we just got lucky because we

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submitted all this to you and then found out we had to go to the planning board. So, >> it's something we happens. >> We're conceptual. >> Yeah. Okay. So, it it remains conceptual then. Correct. Okay. Kevin, why don't we start with you? >> We saw this. >> Sorry. >> We saw this in in the review committee.

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Um I think it reflects pretty accurately what we saw. So, uh you know, you certainly should comment as we as we did. Um, I think the uh the pergolas seem to fit nicely in that area. They're they're, you know, appropriate with the with the um landings and and so forth

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that go with it. Um, I think the lighting was a question mark. We did ask about um, you know, the dark sky initiative, so the lighting should be focused downward, not upward. Um, other than that, I I don't have any comments. >> Great. >> Uh, well, today was the or yesterday was

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the first time I saw this. I think it's it's excellent. Um my question you are it's only temporary. You you don't want to keep the >> perus the flag planner is only temp it's only temporary for the season and it'll be taken down the week after Labor Day.

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We wanted to really um maximize the 250th anniversary of our country. We thought the flag p planner was also a good tribute to the country and also a good photo op for everybody as they're turning the corner. >> Well, thank you. I I love the flag planter as long as

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it's temporary. I wonder where the blue flowers are going to be. So, I can't wait to see it. It's blooming right now. >> Really? Okay. Oh, it's out there now. >> Yes, it is. >> Oh, okay. I'll have to go see it. So, I'm not familiar with these. Are these the things that people buy that have a

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the vine their vines? The mandilla >> the actual plant. They're a They're a creeper bush is my understanding. >> Okay. Um I'm ju I just can't imagine that they're going to grow like this over one season. Are they Are they

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>> It will annuals or perennials? >> They're annuals. >> They're annuals. And I have a feeling you're going to come back and ask for some kind of roof structure >> somewhat. >> I I don't think they're going to This is going to shade the tables every year if you put annuals in. No, they'll be they

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those are actually well they will continue to grow um during the season and also hopefully the offse they'll come back every season and go. >> So they're not so they're perennials. They're not an annual plant. >> Let's find out. >> I don't think so. >> I don't think so.

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>> You may have a landscaping disagreement here. >> Yeah. I mean, I I just I'm just saying I have a feeling that if the if the plantings don't completely cover your pergolas, your clients are going to, you know, are going to be out in the sun and the whole point of your project is to

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shade those tables. I think it's very nice. >> It's a it's a perennial. I just looked it up. >> It is. Okay. So, then it that'll that'll happen then by couple years and it it'll just look beautiful and we're sure it's not an invasive species. >> No. >> No. I know. I mean, we can verify it for

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you, but I don't >> Yeah, I would like that verified, but otherwise, I think it's a lovely plan and a celebration of the 250th time. Thank you. >> I think by their nature, uh, motel are

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really just kind of boxy cinder block structures and they're really kind of cold. I think by introducing wood kind of softens the building and then again with the landscaping on top. Uh I think it really softens it and it could

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be a nice pedestrian experience as well. >> Thank you. >> I love the way it looks. Um my experience with mandillas they don't they don't um survive our winters but >> I could be wrong. Maybe there's a hardy

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one that I don't know about the corner here. Are these flags? >> Yes. Okay. That's temporary as well. And that's for >> Okay. >> the 250th anniversary. So, we turn the corner >> festive. It looks wonderful. Everything you guys do. >> Thank you.

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>> Yeah. I I don't think they need our permission to put the flags up on. But >> I just noticed, >> you know, this is a this is a this is a really um and I looked at it and I thought, well, that's great. The hotel lights are are blue, white, and orange for but I'm sure you meant that to be

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red, right? >> Um, >> you know, this is this is such a large property that um and and and the scope of what we're doing here is to just be sure that as a non-contributing structure and it it doesn't in any way

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interfere with streetscape. Uh it it doesn't work to the dergation of the building or the neighborhood. But let's face it, you're right across the street from the beach >> and um and and that and that may actually have some effect on whether these things do grow even though they're

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technically perennials. So um be be aware that uh that if they don't, you're going to have some pretty open pergola for um you guys. Is this is this because this is an extension of people coming out for the restaurant? What's the Is that the idea? They're gonna

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>> Yes. People come out there and they sit and usually it's gets the sun beating on you and umbrellas are difficult to be moving around constantly because of the sun trip and fall hazard. So the pergolas really fit and soften this the look and the facade of the

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>> right and and do to understand that the the flag the flower flag that's temporary. The pergola correct the perglas are going to stay. >> Correct. >> That's right. You're you're you're intending on having a permanent >> pergola facade here in front of the the restaurant. um think it's I think it's

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proportionate and and it's uh it it works well with as Jake said to soften um an otherwise uh nonwood building with some wood. >> Mr. Carol, >> well as somebody's been on this uh board, I think longer than anybody now,

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I can tell you there's been many times when Laame Mer has come before us with extensions of what we already thought was an overbuilt property. the most massive hotel on the beachfront. Uh we got knocked down several times by the

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zoning board giving permission for things that we didn't. But in this case, I think we're looking at something that really could soften that front edge and take away from the 4ft height behind it. I don't uh know if the flowers will

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exist uh or stay blooming, but at least those pergllos would down low would be a stepstone to that. So, I I will go along with this one and and not protest.

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>> Thank you. >> I just love this rendering that I'm looking at. Um it it goes with the celebration of the 250th and what the city is doing uh to celebrate all of that. I love the flag um in in all of

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the floral. Um just a couple of quick questions with it was temporary now temporary patio ser surface and then the details that we have. It's a patio and then we're not doing a step up to get to the the flooring like we have on this.

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No, that's just an that's illustration of >> that's an illustration of so walking out of the the the restaurant, you're going to be on the same same flush. So you're not Okay. >> Um yeah, I think it's a it's a wonderful soft look. Um just research a little bit

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about the um the the Yeah, the landscaping piece of it. But I I yeah applaud you for for having this uh wonderful um festive >> part of the facade of the building. >> It'd be a lot easier to keep the

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landscape growing than to get a roof from us. >> Yes. >> So >> yeah. So we prefer to have it over here, I think. So let's be clear. We're talking about these really good-looking pergolas, >> growth on them, all nature shading the

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guests, but we're not talking about the precursor to a roof application. >> Absolutely not. >> Okay. Y >> John, can I make I'm sorry. Go ahead, please. >> Can I make one more comment? Um, first of all, it's not considered invasive. Um, I just looked it up on the on the

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internet as well, but it is a tropical perennial and it's grown in warm climates, USDA zones 9 to 11. So, it won't tolerate frost. So, you your choice is really either either think about something else because we

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certainly have plenty of frost. Um, or grow it in pots and then at the end of the season, cut it back, take the pots indoors, bring it back out, and they'll grow again the following year. I I have options for you. Okay. >> I was just talking with Commissioner Strick and we was thinking maybe if you

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could just do a green roof with something that would be evergreen year round and then maybe in the summer you put annuals in for color as an option. >> Yeah. >> But the easiest are all the invasives. >> Another another option would be to to

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put some kind of canvas temporary canvas in the summer that can come off that laces onto the pergolo which is pretty typical. We have those sail things around. It's not going to look as good as the flowers, but I'll be very surprised if those flowers cover the whole pergola. I think it'll be fabulous

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if it does. >> There there's other species we can look at. I know that we've used um >> there's trumpet creepers, but I was going to suggest um I think it's Japanese h Japanese hydrangeia, which I've done arches before that fully

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>> grew over um in a matter of you know, a few years. >> Well, I mean, you know, you know the environment. Yeah, >> it's we're talking and although no one would believe it was 95 degrees elsewhere in the state today, um we we do have frost. We do have some cold

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winters and you certainly have tons of salt. >> Yes. >> Coming off the ocean, but you know this is conceptual approval. So, so you have time >> Yeah. >> to come to think about this, come back. If there's some alternative or some things you want to propose that are

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different from this plant, you can specify that in your final application. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Another another option might be coral honeysuckle, something like that. That's a native as well. >> And also a pollinator. >> Yeah. And that'll continue that'll winter.

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>> It'll grow grow. >> Yeah. So um there are different ways there are different organizations that that establish planting zones. One's the US gardening zones. The other is the USDA hardiness zone. Depending on which

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one you look at, well there's 13 zones. We are either here in six or 7B depending upon which one of those you use. So all I would like to suggest is that when you come back for final, if you could propose

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>> something that's going to work, >> something that you're sure will be withstand the conditions of our hardiness or planting zone depending on which one you look at. Okay. I do only have one other question and that is is there any lighting associated with these pergolas? >> Not associated with the perglas. There are string lights that are existing

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today over the over the terrace that's there. So we're going to rework them with the pergolas. So it' be the same lighting >> that's already there. Um, I just had a question regarding the string lighting. Was that ever brought in front of the commission? >> I think that was before the planning board actually. >> Okay.

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>> I think we came before you and the planning board for that. >> I know like generally I don't think you know that string lighting is appropriate when it's permanent, but >> I must say I recollect the pool. I recollect the fire pits. I recollect the

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extension of the uh the restaurant. I don't recollect the lights. But >> okay. So what I would propose then is entertaining a motion for you folks that is conceptual approval with the following to be resolved at the final

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approval. One is the removal date of the flag temporary plant or I might suggest se September 15th that gives you >> that's exactly the date >> that'd be great. Right. >> Um, second is the verification of

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I'll call it climate applicable perennial native plantings. And third would be um clarification of the lighting you're proposing for the perilous. >> Okay. That would be the substance of the conceptual motion. Would anybody like to make that motion?

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>> I will make that. >> I have a second. >> Just make the motion. >> Motion made by Mr. Carol. >> All right. So seconded. Here >> we have a second already from Miss Pagno >> before the motion was made. I yield to you. >> Oh, >> so yielded. >> I couldn't improve one. Why should I say anything?

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>> Can we have a roll call vote, please? >> Mr. Carol, >> yes. >> Miss Bagno, >> yes. >> Miss Wilson, >> yes. >> Mr. Stevenson, >> yes. >> Miss Decker, >> yes. >> Mr. Teer, >> yes. >> Mr. Becker, >> yes. Thank you very much.

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>> Thank you very much. >> I think it'll be quite wonderful. >> Have a good evening. You too. >> This is a little early for >> World Day weekend. >> Yes, you too. >> No rain. >> Early for us to get giddy, but we're doing it. >> We're doing it. So, our next applicant, please, Capeanita LLC, 918 Stockton

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Avenue. >> Good evening. If you would please state your name and your role in the project. >> Mr. Scarpa. >> You hear it? >> Yes. Joseph Scarpa. I'm with the Highland Group. I'm the project architect representing Cape Anita and which is Mary Thomas.

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>> I just want Oh, I'm sorry. >> Sorry. Also, Ty Ellis with >> All right. Ty Ellis, project architect with the Highland Group as well. >> Great. Um, Mr. Scarper, just want to be sure that you have authorization from the owner to represent them this evening. >> Absolutely. In writing. Yes. >> Okay.

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Um, I did bring one more exhibit just because it has a center perspective that may help in um in uh helping. So I thought >> this one is not in your pack. >> Very good. >> Thanks.

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>> Thank you, sir. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. If you're not aware, this is um the presentation is 918 Stockton Avenue, located in the residential seasonal district and the southern portion of the

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historical district. This building is a contributing building. Mary Thomas acquired this um 1890s folk Victorian November of last year. The home currently is a multiple dwelling uh unit currently uh serving three units.

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Mary intends to reduce this to two units. One unit will occupy the third floor. Mary and her disabled son will occupy uh the lower two stories of the home. As you can see from the documents provided, the exterior of the home is in

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um need of repair and has been for a while. In addition to the home's exterior renovation, the project proposes an elevator addition to the rear of the home to access all floors, an ADA accessible ramp on the eastern facade,

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and uh multiplestory rear decks. A portion of the first floor will be removed in order to install the new elevator and its machine room. The existing threestory wood egress stair that's now in the back of the home will be removed and replaced with the

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rear decks and new staircase. ADA ramp will switch back from the rear um to the first habitable deck and act as an emergency egress. All mechanical equipment will be screened from the public's view. Uh and

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additional there's a carriage style door will be added to the rear to access the underside of the home. Additional parking area has been provided in the rear as well. All new development are conforming with the Kate May zoning ordinance and will not require any zoning variance. So I

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would propose this as a final uh if possible. >> Mr. Scarpa. >> Yes. >> Sorry to interrupt, but have you confirmed that with the zoning officer? >> I have not confirmed it, but I followed all the conformance requirements and we're we're well under a lot of the requirements.

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So the existing building another another portion of it uh the existing building will be raised so that the first habitable floor is at an elevation of 12 ft which is 3 ft above the base flood elevation um as uh New Jersey

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um would be a New Jersey mandate. This will raise the building a only a foot higher than it exists currently. In doing so, the building's foundation will be reconstructed. The intent of raising the building is to provide adequate access to the elevator from the exterior as well as to protect the building from

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future flood damage. Directed to the left of the property on the corner of Stockton Avenue and Queen Street is a 2 and 1/2tory building with a first habitable floor roughly at the proposed elevation. So, the one where we're asking to raise it, that first floor is

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going to be now equal with the one that's on that corner of Queen and Stockton. And to the west is a one and a half story bungalow with approximately the same floor ele. The bungalow remains at the level for

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four homes until the home starts to enlarge again. Uh I believe at 9006 Stockton Avenue. So, I have I have a few because this way you can kind of see the differences between these these all these pictures are taken um directly across the street

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on the sidewalk at the same position throughout the whole the ones you're seeing in your packet throughout the So, you can kind of see as it kind of starts off larger, goes down to the four bungalows, then starts to step up until it's back pretty much at at each end bookending the thing. So, it exists

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right there. The folk Victorian has simple detailing as which would be intended for the style of this building. We propose maintaining this aesthetic around all four sides of the building, incorporating these features into the new deck and ADA ramp.

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The existing railings, uh, decking and ornamental bracketing will be repaired and/or replaced as needed. The current asbestous siding will be removed. If the clabber siding is consistent and in good condition, it will be repaired.

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If not, a painted cementitious siding will be installed. The upper scalloped freeze board and exposed rafter tails will be repaired and painted as required. Asphalt shingles will be um replaced to match the new rod addition

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to the rear. We felt since the building was having a a slight small roof to the back, we would just redo all the shingles which are already existing asphalt. The new foundation will be applied with a smooth stuck of finish with square

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lattice between the porch and the ramp peers. Windows and exterior doors will be replaced as specified in the documents provided. Custom batten um tongue and groove style shutters will be added with actual um iron shutter

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hardware. A gable bracket will replace will be added to replace the current little square vent located on the front gable. and the new stair has been turned side to side as not to protrude into the front yard of the property now that it's being elevated one foot.

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Um I think the only thing that I would say that I um I think there is one thing that I feel is um different is the plot plan that I provide. I'm showing concrete

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drive kind of like a a tire wheel concrete and a concrete walkway. I don't in we Mary doesn't intend to use concrete. The idea is to use a grass paver for the portion of the driveway into the back and then um a a standard

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paver for the um for that the um the walkway to the back. and uh I would take any questions. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Mr. Scarpa. >> Mr. Hammer, would you like to begin, please? >> Sure.

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>> Um in the materials checklist, there's a reference to fiber cement siding. Um James Hardy, which I assume is Hardy Plank, >> and a custom wood uh gel wind, which is fine. That the the siding, I just want

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to make clear that I understand that. Is that a like a cedar siding or is that a wood? >> James Hart is is considered like a cementitious siding that's painted. So, it has a wood aesthetic to it. >> Okay. In a in a contributing property,

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typically we require an allwood um siding material. Same with windows and doors, um trim around them. >> Yeah. Currently, it's as siding all around the house. Well, that wouldn't change the fact that our our standards would require a a wood construction

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because that's what's typical of the time and era of the house. It's it's really a a um you know a fundamental requirement in the standards for contributing properties contributing and key contributing. >> I would agree that that would look good.

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But I mean if now that it has a speestous on it, are you required to take the asbestous down at that point? >> Were you not planning to take it down? >> Yeah. Well, we would like to and if see if it's the same size, but again, you know, I mean, I I could speak to the client to see if that would be something she'd be willing to do. I mean, really,

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the the real intent is is take it off and there's something behind it that could be restored. That would be great and consistent because we don't it gets to the back, it could get odd. >> You don't know what's under the now? >> No, we do not know what's >> So, we can clarify this. You are not required to remove the asbestous

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sighting. However, you have listed a synthetic material for fascia, sophet, siding, >> window trim, >> and that would not be permitted on a contributed home. >> So, that would all need to be wood. >> Anything new would be >> anything new would need to be wood

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whether you remove the siding or not. Although, we would strongly encourage if possible to remove the speciding and do clabard. Right. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> So, I think that's what Kevin was trying to point out. >> Right. It's fine. Um and you know that that really applies to RLast and Hardy Plank. Those are both synthetic

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materials usually. So um question about the shutters that are shown um on the second and third floors of the of the um um residence. Is that are those shutters typical of what you would have found on the house at that time and place of

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construction? The home the home is a Victorian folk simple in nature and also given that it's shore location. It has better shore aesthetic that we so we feel that this would be while we haven't found anything that would have been particular exact to that. I think that I

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think that the nature of it being simple in its in its character and the fact that that board feels more sure more sure secure. >> Okay. I I'm just I'm just curious if that if that the uh design choice is,

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you know, of that v of that era and whether it's um and they you know, again, they would they you're I'm assuming they're working shutters that could actually >> Yes, correct. >> Okay. Um is there a reason for reorienting the front steps? The original house would have had the steps

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going straight up. Is there a rationale for reorienting? Well, the building we were we were looking back and forth on different ways we could elevate the home. We settled on the the height that we that we came to. Um, and we felt that if we hold the the the steps at the

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think that we feel like it would be coming out too far aesthetically. So, we notice along that street there are multiple steps that turn side to side even with different multiple landings. So, you have an aesthetic different amounts of types of steps on that street in that one block. >> So, you have variation already. So we

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felt that that would have been rather than just coming out further, it would be better suited that. >> Would you have been encroaching into the setback zone? >> No, I would not be encroaching in the setback. If I kept it straight, it would have been within the setback. >> Okay. Uh and then um uh just uh typically in

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in most of these kind of applications, we usually ask that we see some kind of a lighting plan and landscaping plan. So just >> those can come to our small group and usually the they're dealt with there. Okay, I'm done. John.

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>> Okay, >> this is just a question and I'm curious about the ADA compliance. This is just on the first floor. >> Just on the first floor. Obviously, there's an elevator that that's servicing all floors, but just the the the landing. I mean, the ramp just gets

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you up to the first floor, correct? >> Yes. >> Can I jump back in? I'm sorry. >> Yes. >> On the ramp, can you tell me how that ramp works? But I see I see in the proposed drawing that you just gave us. >> Yeah. >> It comes down. >> Yeah. But it's hard to see the entrance. >> Yeah. It And then does it wrap back

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around on itself and go toward the back of the house? Is that >> It's very interesting. So the idea is is um when the user shows up with a vehicle, she's able to unload the individual. Well, he can practically unload himself,

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but he goes through an opening on what would be the I guess that would be the western side. and you can get directly underneath the house at that time under shelter with any type of thing. The ramp is actually accessed towards the underside of the building and then goes

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up and then comes back around to the front of the end. >> I was really trying to follow that. >> Yeah, it's we we there's like there's like three versions of that till we came up with that that that orientation. >> Um I echo some of Kevin's comments. I I'd have to see some kind of proof that

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these shutters are historically accurate for this house because they don't appear to be to me. Um they look like barn door shutters and I don't think they'd be appropriate for this house. I want to thank you for giving us existing and

397
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proposed renderings. This is so helpful. Your presentation was great. Um, I actually really like this with the rear porches echoing the front porches. I I I think it it looks like something a Victorian

398
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would have done. Um, I think it it looks really nice. Um, it is it is a contributing house. I agree with everything that um, John and Kevin said about about the wood. I think if you, you know, do an exploratory with

399
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the asbestos, you will find out that there's clapboard underneath and we would of course prefer that that be, you know, replicated or repaired. >> Yeah. My only my only fear is that if you know taken off that because because all restoration of things have changed,

400
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we've seen that. But I do agree. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. I would just like um you to provide some kind of a cut sheet regarding the pavers and the grass pavers. Uh, you know, it's clearly stated in our standards what type of paving materials are appropriate in

401
02:07:36.400 --> 02:07:52.719
historic district. We really don't like the new modern interlocking octagonal ones. It's look at the standards will tell you what is acceptable. >> Um, also just regarding the um your windows uh on a description on the cut sheet it says the grills are between the

402
02:07:52.719 --> 02:08:08.639
glass or would that be an external? Well, there's there's external ones, but it's actually the grills actually do show they they provide the spacers. So, it doesn't >> So, it has the spacer. It's not in >> correct. Yes. >> Simulated. They call it simulated. >> Well, wait a minute. Several.

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>> I think we want to be really clear that they're actually simulated divided lights because some of the manufacturers, they're not there's not a surface mullion. It's just recessed in the half inch between the glass. That's what we don't want. >> No, we want sim want simulated divided exterior. >> Absolutely.

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Um yeah, I also marked the shutters as when I look at um the proposed they don't you know I we talk about the shutters are the same size as the windows when they close >> and that may just be an error on the

405
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drawing. It looks like they're too wide. but also the style um doesn't doesn't uh match the style of shutters for this period. Um, I'm also curious about

406
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the elevation and the parking underneath. Is is the house currently I mean that's that's introducing a new a new development for that house, right?

407
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Or is there already parking underneath? >> No, when that when the house gets elevated and it's the main intent is not really just to access the back of the home. So, so the the home is we would like the idea is if there was room to get underneath of it again to provide more cover, but it is located in the

408
02:09:30.800 --> 02:09:46.639
back of the house and it will emulate a carriage style door >> because we are um constantly asked for uh increasing elevation

409
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parking underneath and this is definitely not part of our design standards. So, but I um that's why I had to ask that question. Um and I I noticed when it referred to the elevation, it's it said DF

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>> the design flood elevation. So, your BFE is at 9 ft. A design elevation would be three feet above the first floor would be your design flood elevation. So, bringing that bringing that >> Well, I'll leave that up to the architects.

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>> Thank you. It it looks it's it really is a nice design. And this is awesome. I wish all of our applicants did this for us. >> It's pretty it's pretty clear. I mean it it uh this is this is one of those

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circumstances where the design here is I think a considerable improvement all around and and we're presented with a materials sheet that is just not appropriate for for the for the contributing structure that it is. So,

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this is going to be one of those things that if we approve, it's going to have to have a materials cut sheet substantially revised to show a lot of things. And that does give me a little pause about whether that all goes in front of the review committee because because basically we're we're revising

414
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an awful lot of the material sheet. Uh and and so so I'm I'm no real problems with the designs. I echo the I I think those shutters look terrible. They look like checkerboard square. Um, but if they're sustainable as a historic matter and you want to prove that, okay,

415
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>> that's that's okay. But I think there's sort of fairly consistent criticism of the choice of those front shutters. So, I' I'd give that a think >> about about redesigning them. Rest the rest of it to me is is is really nicely

416
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done in terms of the porches. The the the back couldn't have been better to be improved the way you've improved it now. Um, so we'll deal with the material sheet in some way when we get to >> agreeing with everything I've been hearing. It's interesting that the

417
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shutters who've got the most uh consideration here, there is no cut sheet on that. They're pretty darn ugly looking. Remind me of some things. The further south you go into hurricane country, the uglier these

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machinery things come. But I've seen things that can kind of curl up in almost to you know, a top framing over a window that is pulled down and not something that swings out to the side. If they really feel in that ocean side, that's

419
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really important to have that. Uh although we don't really have almost any other place in town that has put up that kind of shutter for for protection, >> not on contributing structure. >> Not on contributing structures. Yeah. >> So that and I think everybody else has brought up all the other things a lot

420
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more details. You heard my little speech on how running railings have to be and stuff like that. >> Absolutely. >> And uh so all those things need to be identified. >> Okay. Um again what everybody said here um but I have a question about the base

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flood elevation. Are you ra I thought I heard you in the beginning say that you're raising it only a foot >> foot from what to get to that level. >> Okay. that that we're looking at 12 what would be an elevation of 12. That's that's a date. It's an elevation marker. >> That existing building has to be raised

422
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just a foot and some change like a couple like a like Yeah, it's something. >> So you're looking at about two steps and I'm talking about the entrance coming in. Correct. >> Okay. So you're looking at maybe two steps as far as um additional >> Yeah, they're they're sh they are

423
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shallow steps but yes some to that. So, I'm thinking I'm thinking about two steps. And looking at some of these pictures and I when I drove by the property, I didn't look at that in a way, you know, as far as the steps, not you know, as far as raising it, what you

424
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would need to come out. I just feel that the front elevation of that with the steps coming directly forward makes it more inviting. M >> um and I don't know if you would, like you said, you're not going to encroach into the front yard setback.

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>> Um I think that, you know, taking a look at the way that that's designed, I would like you to possibly look at that again. >> And >> I know we've had a lot of questions, but I've got to give you a little bit of a a compliment that I think the you've done

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02:14:30.079 --> 02:14:45.840
a good job with the window fenestration. It's a lot more symmetrical, >> pleasing to the eye. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a nice looking Yeah. >> You're saying front front steps, front porch. >> Front steps. I'd like them Yeah. to come >> instead of >> instead of coming and and and doing a 90

427
02:14:45.840 --> 02:15:00.719
degree turn. >> Yeah. >> Um actually, it's off to the right. >> Off to the right. >> It's off to the right. Um which >> I thought you >> follows the the main the the front door off to the right. I think Tom was redesigning the

428
02:15:00.719 --> 02:15:18.719
>> Oh, I >> I think as as you're looking at the front elevation off to the right and really the coming going by this house quite a bit looking at what your proposal is for the rear of the building and you can see that from Beach Drive. Um this is just a

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a really beautiful design. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Mimicking the front of the house as I think the overall house it ju this the simplicity of what the folk Victorian is. >> Yeah. >> Really really holds really well. >> Mhm. And then the shutters of course that

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>> that was you got >> nobody nobody likes. >> Thank you. >> So gentlemen to segue from Miss Baldwin. It's very nicely done. >> Thank you. >> However, there's a bunch of stuff that still has to be resolved and I have a

431
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few to add. Okay, if you look at the uh the west elevation um which is shown on HPC 202, one of the things that we ask for when there's an addition like this that's written explicitly in our standards is be able to differentiate

432
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what exists from what doesn't. So if you look at the bottom right hand elevation on HPC 202 where that former roof and edge of the house would have come down here. I can show you easier a little. See that little dash line right

433
02:16:22.800 --> 02:16:39.760
there? Some sort of differentiation there, Joe. >> Okay. >> Um and it could simply be uh like a a 1x4 trim board that separates the siding between the existing and the new just to differentiate it. So it could theoretically according to how it's

434
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written in our standards be removed and the existing house could stay. >> Okay. >> Theoretically >> it actually will hold the geometry better of the hip roof. >> It actually I think would help you. >> Yeah. >> Aesthetically. Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Um the other thing is it looks as if and and and correct me if I'm wrong here that you're purging over the the brick

435
02:16:55.840 --> 02:17:11.519
chimney that's currently o in the front gable. >> The brick the brick chimney I would I would assume right now it's pged over. Right now >> the back one is but the front one is not. that I can tell. Maybe I'm maybe I'm mis mistaken, but when I looked at the photographs, it looks as if the

436
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chimney that is in the middle of the uh perpendicular gable, >> the one closest to the front of the house. >> Yeah, the one that's closest to the front of the house, it appears as if it's got brick cuz it's got a very nice brick detail on the top. >> I know that was one thing I I took a look at because of um >> and again, it might be might be

437
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distorted by the photos and I know the cut sheet talks about it being brick. Okay. >> On the cut sheet. It does. >> But when I look at it, I'm trying to say it. >> Okay. So, this is one of the reasons this I have actually there's a list of 14 issues here. >> Okay. >> Um um that I think we have to address

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and I think we can list them in the conceptual approval assuming based on what I hear here that conceptual approval is highly likely. Um and I I'll come back to the biggest issue, but we'll come back to it. Um the the historical property report talks about

439
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exposed rafter tales and it appears as if they're staying but I can't tell from either the renderings or the elevations because it looks like the rafter tails are behind a fascia. >> Mhm. >> Right. So I just want to make sure the rafter tails are staying. Yes. >> Absolutely. Repaired if any are damaged >> and in the addition you'll be using the

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rafter tails as well. >> In the addition. Yes. Absolutely. >> Perfect. Okay. Um, the application also lists the installation of a generator and I'm and a new HVAC system. So, would

441
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that would that require new outdoor condensers? The AC condensers are located on the roof portion on the upper level. >> Great. So, what about the generator? >> The generator is located >> same place. Put a generator on the roof.

442
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>> Yeah. Fair enough. The concern is that I'm just make it clear in the application that any exterior condensers or generators are not visible from the street and if they are to be screened with our privacy lattice as in

443
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accordance with our standards. Got it. Okay. Um are there any new lighting fixtures that you're planning on installing? >> No. No. Okay. So I can take 13 issues to take that one off the list. Um,

444
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one of the things, one of the other things that it talks about in the in the report is that these columns are still existing that were originally the chamered columns. >> Absolutely. >> So, um, that's not stated anywhere in in your submission that you've got a significant amount of new columns given

445
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the porches in the back. Will those also be chamered columns? >> Yes. >> Okay. Just want to make sure that that's included in your in your application. that that should be either a cut sheet or a detail something that verifies that. >> Got it. >> Okay. Um and everything else has been

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listed. So I'll go through all 13 of these for our solicitor and the rest of us. >> Yeah. >> This this would not be for this is not these are not conditions. >> This is just recommendations for moving from conceptual to final. So if if

447
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they're not, >> I I think the testimony right now is that they don't have to go to the zoning board or planning board for this, but I I have I have to say that I have I would like to see that as a condition. >> Yeah. And I'm not saying you are or you

448
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don't or whatever, but we have seen some seemingly downstream conversions going from multif family to single family and even those required >> aboard application due to new setback relief with existing non-conforming conditions. I'm not going through that in here. I'm just flagging it as an

449
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issue and it can be something that you confirm with the zoning officer that you don't have to go any further than >> Okay. So, it would just be a confirmation. Well, that what I was going to suggest is we have a laundry list of things that you know um shutters

450
02:20:58.319 --> 02:21:13.200
uh what is going on with the chimney. >> I'll repeat it for you. But but are we if we're not ready for a final tonight with a bunch of conditions, maybe what we consider is all that stuff can be confirmed and the applicant can come

451
02:21:13.200 --> 02:21:28.960
back with a clean revised plan that it has all this stuff in it so that we don't have to pick this apart and send it to the review committee. You can confirm with the zoning officer that you don't have to go any further. And then what we approve is the SCARPA plan revised as of whatever date with all

452
02:21:28.960 --> 02:21:45.120
that stuff on it. So, we're not have to do some homework afterwards. I think that's cleaner for the applicant. It's cleaner for the board, cleaner for the zoning officer. >> But one thing is it doesn't it doesn't unless we actually list the suggestions or conditions. >> I'm not suggesting we don't list it >> because because we would normally do that in a conceptual. I

453
02:21:45.120 --> 02:22:00.160
>> I wasn't trying to stop that. I was just the result of that discussion may maybe the best thing would be that the applicant gets to go back and talk about the materials with the client, confirm, you know, hey, we're going to do wood for all this stuff. So I think what our solicitors is proposing is one of two

454
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options. So I I am also a bit concerned about the zoning approval. I think we need to have that confirmed more than just your belief that zoning doesn't have any issues. Right. >> So I think we can either grant conceptual review with all of these issues that you will address. you

455
02:22:16.880 --> 02:22:32.800
go to zoning, then you come back to final or we could table this >> to to come back at a >> to come back so you wouldn't have to wait two more months, it it could expedite the process for you. So, for example, if you go and visit zoning and

456
02:22:32.800 --> 02:22:49.280
you get confirmation that there's no zoning issues >> and you have between now and our next meeting to address these 13 issues I'm about just to summarize for you, you could revise the drawings and come back to us for a final. So, this wouldn't be a conceptual. It just be coming back again.

457
02:22:49.280 --> 02:23:06.080
>> So, what I'm suggesting is you have, I think, two options. One is we could give you conceptual approval tonight, >> likely. We haven't voted on it yet. >> Um, with these recommendations, or we table it, and then you just come back next month with a a a zoning

458
02:23:06.080 --> 02:23:22.800
confirmation and revised drawings that incorporate these 13, we give you a final approval. you could end up with a clean final or very clean consumpt yes I think I think at that point let's table it because it's the same time constraint possibly even cleaner

459
02:23:22.800 --> 02:23:38.880
>> and then for because it makes the makes people comfortable I will check it with zoning >> it makes it a lot I I think I agree with our solicitor this makes it a lot cleaner for you but there's a there's a concession you need >> well it makes it makes it it makes it simpler to do correct but if there does

460
02:23:38.880 --> 02:23:55.760
turn out to be a need to approach um another board conceptual approval is a tool that's often used to say to that other board it's been through the commission and here it's it's rece I mean there's there's pros and cons if if you do need to go to the board

461
02:23:55.760 --> 02:24:12.000
it's better to find out now than >> oh no absolutely and if you find out then you would need a conceptual anyway and in which case you'd have a really good conceptual approval teed up because you'd have all this revisions so >> that's I think it benefits the applicant either way to just kind of come and

462
02:24:12.000 --> 02:24:28.000
clean this up and either you get a very final looking conceptual or maybe you're ready for final because you don't need to go any further with zoning and all this stuff has been cleaned up and revised plan. >> Absolutely. >> That's fine. >> So that's up to you. >> That's fine. I I think I think it's probably the best fit. >> Which one? >> The table it.

463
02:24:28.000 --> 02:24:43.040
>> Okay. So >> do you want to let's go through the >> I'll just go through the list real quick. Right. Absolutely. So shutters with cut sheets. >> John, can I make a m I want to ask Tom something. Do these folk Victorians did they ever have shutters?

464
02:24:43.040 --> 02:24:59.840
Because you know, you don't have to add shutters to a house that doesn't have shutters. I kind of like the way it looks without the shutters. I think it's got lots of fenestration. In your opinion, do folk Victorians have shutters? I'm going to go home and look at my book

465
02:24:59.840 --> 02:25:13.439
>> um for next time >> to be sure. Most shutter >> There's a very good chance that all these houses we look at from that had shutters had shutters. Okay, because they used them to control light and air flow and

466
02:25:13.439 --> 02:25:31.600
>> even shut and bolted and and first floor shutters were generally solid. >> They were right for security. >> Correct. Okay. >> Can I can I ask a question about the shutters just so then this might help the applicant. >> What is it about the shutters that the board is concerned about? Is it the

467
02:25:31.600 --> 02:25:47.439
design? Is it the size? because we've talked about biffold shutters before that don't necessarily cover the whole width of the window, but they do >> they unfold. >> Yeah. So, I don't I just want to present that and maybe that might help the applicant kind of inform what they come back with too. If there's any suggestions there.

468
02:25:47.439 --> 02:26:03.040
>> So, I think what I heard was that the design of the shutters appears inappropriate for this house because it's a series of slats with a a wood bar nailing them. >> That would that would be my view. I mean, I would like to see some examples

469
02:26:03.040 --> 02:26:20.319
of folk Victorian houses with shutters, which can't be that hard to find when you come back. >> Got some research going on right now >> for myself. >> And that would be great. Then we would feel we were, you know, approving an appropriate style shutter for this house. >> Okay. So,

470
02:26:20.319 --> 02:26:38.319
run down this list then. Shutters with either details or cut sheets of the shutters you're proposing. wood for fasc, siding, window trim, doors, columns, railings, and brackets. >> Windows are still unclear based upon the

471
02:26:38.319 --> 02:26:53.840
cut sheets you've given us whether they're exterior primed because it gives us a bunch of colors, but those look like those appear to be clad colors as opposed to primed. >> Yeah. But it doesn't. Yeah, exactly. We'll we'll >> Yeah. The problem is that manufacturer makes both. So the cut sheets that were

472
02:26:53.840 --> 02:27:09.439
given to us don't explicitly state that they're wood exterior primed. That's all we need to see. And the same thing with the SDLs, this the simulated divided lights. >> Just just to clarify that it's not simply a thin piece of plastic between the >> No. And you would and you would get

473
02:27:09.439 --> 02:27:26.560
there by revising your material sheet to cross reference specifically to the cut sheet that shows the window that you're going to do or any other so >> any other material. >> Okay. Mr. Scarper is quite aware of what simulated divided lights are. Yes.

474
02:27:26.560 --> 02:27:42.560
>> Right. So I I'm I just want to get through the list here, guys. Right. Um differentiate the rear edition on the west elevation on HPC 202 like we talked about. >> Mhm. >> Right. Brick chimney front

475
02:27:42.560 --> 02:27:58.640
exposed rafter tails verified. Uh, we can take the generator condenser locations off the list because they are out of view from the street. Correct. >> Um, chamered columns details to match the existing

476
02:27:58.640 --> 02:28:18.960
PA cut sheets railing details as you heard Mr. Carol speak of earlier. >> Just real quick on HPC 104. >> Yep. it it there's a couple things that outline the columns chamfered the railings and there are some dimensions

477
02:28:18.960 --> 02:28:39.280
on those shutters as well even though >> so this is very close to what we need it it shows us the spacing or doesn't show us the spacing dimension it just shows us the 2-in wood ballusters for the railings >> right >> but not the space between >> not the spacing between them but Mr.

478
02:28:39.280 --> 02:28:56.960
Carol is is saying that our policy is 3 in even though code allows you four. That's just much more common for the the homes here in Kate May. Right. Okay. Um I have I just like to point out

479
02:28:56.960 --> 02:29:15.600
page 28 of our standards. Miss Pagno pointed out, it says the addition or removal of window shutter should be based on documentary historical evidence and adjacent precedent houses. >> There it is. Thank you. >> And lastly, um actually second to last

480
02:29:15.600 --> 02:29:31.520
is reconsidering shifting the stairs to continue to project forward rather than turning 90 degrees if it in fact would be permissible within the setbacks for zoning. And I think that there's even an exception to that that will allow you to

481
02:29:31.520 --> 02:29:47.120
do that if you're raising the house with the latest zoning. There was there was a an amendment to zoning that would allow for steps to protrude into the into the setback if it had to be raised for flood purposes. Yeah. >> Um and then the last one is I I want to

482
02:29:47.120 --> 02:30:03.600
understand the response to what Miss Wilson Sturdik's question was. Are you planning on actually parking under the home? the intent is I I I would like to say that there's always the there's always an intent to

483
02:30:03.600 --> 02:30:19.040
park if there's a space there. Is there is there a problem with that that >> Well, um not necessarily if the entrance to the garage or whatever that that's what I'm getting to is from the side or the rear. But if I if I'm if I'm I had to use my magnifying glass here to read

484
02:30:19.040 --> 02:30:35.200
this, not not your fault. But it looks like grade is only 7T 5 in below first floor raised floor. And if you take the joist out of that, that means you're only going to have like small car >> less than 7 ft clear.

485
02:30:35.200 --> 02:30:50.240
>> It would be very shallow. >> It's gonna be really shallow. So the question is whether you'd even be permitted by code to park underneath it because you would have probably only about 68 69 clear, >> right? So I would just check that. And the reason I'm asking that is because I think you said that you were proposing

486
02:30:50.240 --> 02:31:06.640
and I think there's a f an image here that these look like carriage doors going. >> So that would be one. >> An overhead door would be very hard to get under those clearances. >> And the carriage doors are perfectly acceptable. Um but that was the last thing on the list. It would be the uh some sort of cut sheet of the carriage

487
02:31:06.640 --> 02:31:21.120
doors you're proposing if in fact that's why I had to go through are you parking underneath it if there in fact are carriage doors. >> Okay, >> there's the 13 issues. >> So what would you like to do? >> I believe that Mr. Scarpa is um

488
02:31:21.120 --> 02:31:36.800
requesting us to table this. Uh yeah, I mean I think that's that's the best way because I'd rather have a clean thing or really be comfortable with it because otherwise I'd be coming back here and you'd be going through all these items. >> Well, you'll be you know and hoping I hit >> going through the items in an improved

489
02:31:36.800 --> 02:31:52.319
and addressed manner that you just the important part is whether it were conceptual or we table it that you got a complete list and that you have. >> So So if you would like to have it tabled, I will make a motion to table the application subject to the waiver of

490
02:31:52.319 --> 02:32:09.120
the 45day rule. Can I just can I just real quick before there's a second or >> um just there is a detriment to tableabling this >> and I want to make sure that the applicant understands that and if Mr. Gillan Schwarz could please do you understand the detriment to tableling?

491
02:32:09.120 --> 02:32:24.479
>> Absolutely. We're coming back here all together. I just want to make sure >> and I don't and and anything that would have been conceptual would have been approved as conceptually and held on. So coming back again, I means I'm open to looking at it again. >> Or if you don't have conceptual and if

492
02:32:24.479 --> 02:32:39.760
you have to go to another board. >> Oh yeah. >> They're not ready for that anyway, though. So they like if you have to go to another board, this board is not going to slow you down. Correct. >> You're going to find out within the next 30 days whether you need to go or not. You're either going to come back here

493
02:32:39.760 --> 02:32:55.760
for a final or if you do need to go to the board, you're going to come back and you're going to potentially be considered for conceptual. You're going to have a letter from us the following month. you're you're going to have that well before you're ready to go into the board anyway. So, um and we would get that information to the board so that we're not slowing you down.

494
02:32:55.760 --> 02:33:11.120
>> My only thing that I a question I have on tableabling it is is again will even the zoning officer speak to me without a conceptual. >> Yeah. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Of course. >> Yeah. >> He's also the HPC compliance officer. So

495
02:33:11.120 --> 02:33:27.280
you're which is why >> that do >> he's I think he's going to be happy to hear what happened today because it's going to not require him to do a bunch of investigation about who said what the you know it's just going to be lead to a cleaner decision for for the applicant

496
02:33:27.280 --> 02:33:42.240
for the rep project and for us. So the only thing >> and just from my standpoint just need to confirm that the applicant is okay with waving the time for decision. That's what we have to operate under. Um, you know, we could make a decision tonight,

497
02:33:42.240 --> 02:33:58.640
but we'd rather make a better one in a month or so if you want to come back with that information, but I just want to confirm that you would wave that time to get us to that next meeting so that we can have this more, you know, flushed out discussion. >> Yes. >> That's that's the detriment you were

498
02:33:58.640 --> 02:34:13.840
speaking of, right, Lorraine? Yes. >> Is the waving of the time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, I think Lorraine was concerned maybe about delay, too. If the delay, it might be it could be up to a 30 30-day delay because if they do have to if you do have to go to another board, you're

499
02:34:13.840 --> 02:34:29.280
going to have to come back here and get conceptual, >> but they would come back next month anyway. What I >> Yeah, >> that's what he said. >> They'll have an idea of where they're going and how long it'll take. Right. What what what Conceptual would help you with is if you had to go before the zoning board to get some sort of

500
02:34:29.280 --> 02:34:46.160
variance or something that is non-compliant, >> they would likely ask you, "Hey, do you have HPC conceptual approval?" That's how it would help you. >> Absolutely. >> So, if you're not planning on going to the zoning board between now and next month, then this is likely your

501
02:34:46.160 --> 02:35:02.000
>> You could have your you have your expectation or conclusions confirmed that you don't need to. >> Correct. And and if you do, the matter might be so simple that you don't really need our conceptual approval in detail to to tool your other board work.

502
02:35:02.000 --> 02:35:18.640
>> So that clarifier to make it muddier. >> Clarify table. I think that I made a motion to table this. >> Well, but I want to make sure that that that's still acceptable. >> Acceptance. It is. Okay. But I just wanted to make one more suggestion not to be in here that in my six years on this commission, I've never seen an

503
02:35:18.640 --> 02:35:34.399
applicant come in with absolutely no exterior lighting. And you know, I mean, even for safety reasons, it's just kind of peculiar. So, you may want to double check. And if they do want to have exterior lighting, they should bring a lighting plan in with >> because because Jake is going to ask you

504
02:35:34.399 --> 02:35:49.920
that when it comes to the to the to the final approval. >> Correct. >> Hint hint. Wink wink. >> Yeah. consider that. >> So, do you have any other questions for us before we entertain our motion? >> No, I'm fine. Thanks.

505
02:35:49.920 --> 02:36:05.920
>> Yeah, you good. Okay. So, we have a motion on the table to table this. Do I hear a second? >> I second it. >> So, moved by Mr. Tessa, seconded by Miss Decker. Roll call, please. >> Mr. Carol, >> yes. >> Miss Bagno, >> yes.

506
02:36:05.920 --> 02:36:21.840
>> Miss Wilson, >> yes. >> Mr. Stevenson, >> yes. >> Miss Decker, >> yes. >> Mr. Mr. Testa. >> Yes. >> Mr. Becker. >> Yes. >> Thank you. You good? >> Yes. >> All right. Hopefully that was helpful. >> Oh, absolutely. Thank you all. >> Great. Thank you guys.

507
02:36:21.840 --> 02:36:37.600
>> Thank you for gentlemen. >> Thank you. >> Okay. The next application is Huntington House LLC. That has been requested by the applicant to move to June. So, if I could collect, please the uh the full application so that we can give them to Lauren and she can just redistribute

508
02:36:37.600 --> 02:36:54.680
those next month. And how about the other one that >> that was last? >> That's we're hearing that now. I have to recuse myself. >> Okay. >> You have Huntington House. >> Huntington House. >> Put it together. Pass it to >> Okay.

509
02:37:00.800 --> 02:37:17.359
>> Yeah. I'm still trying to find it. >> I am. I have I have to go present. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I am. So the next application on our and last for this evening is from the USS Jacob Jones Memorial Foundation. I am of course needing to recuse myself from this

510
02:37:17.359 --> 02:37:34.240
because I am representing the applicant. So Mr. Ta, I hand this over to you. >> Yeah, please to uh take the chair again. So if um soon as you finish recusing yourself, if you will present yourself at the table and make the presentation for the memorial.

511
02:37:34.240 --> 02:37:51.600
>> Good evening everybody. Um you uh first thing is this this project is will be entirely funded by a nonprofit 501c3 organization which is a bonafiday 501c3 approved by the federal government and that is the

512
02:37:51.600 --> 02:38:09.680
USS Jacob Jones Memorial Foundation. I'm here representing them. My role on the project is I am the project designer. Um, I want to keep this pretty short mainly because this has been presented for over a half an hour twice. Once on

513
02:38:09.680 --> 02:38:27.280
Zoom to the public on April 15th and last, I guess that was May 5th to city council. And just want to walk it through real quick. I'll just go through page by page here fairly quickly in order. The front page

514
02:38:27.280 --> 02:38:43.120
is really the seal that we had a a graphic designer create. The site for this is located directly across from the Grand Hotel. And it's important to understand that this property is outside the current definition of the local

515
02:38:43.120 --> 02:39:00.080
historic district because it's on the beach side of Beach Drive. It also is city-owned property. So, we're not requesting a certificate of appropriateness because that wouldn't be appropriate, right? But what we are doing is out of courtesy to HPC and the

516
02:39:00.080 --> 02:39:15.920
city, we want to make sure that this is presented to you and that is in accordance with what you believe is appropriate or not. So I I I'm not quite sure what the process for that would be. That's for you guys to figure out. >> It's a if it's a city application, the equivalent of it would be an advisory report, right? >> Yeah.

517
02:39:15.920 --> 02:39:30.240
This is kind of a unique case because I think council was presented with this at the last meeting and sometimes the city's indifferent. Uh I think the and there's a resolution on tomorrow night to sort

518
02:39:30.240 --> 02:39:46.000
of endorse and join in this process and it's going to end up being a city installation on city property. So I would consider this kind of like the arches a um yeah quasi but it's the city's taken an active role in this in

519
02:39:46.000 --> 02:40:02.800
that it's going to be most likely supporting the the design and the location on public property. So I would consider this more in the nature of a advisory type approval. >> Well the the chair is going to rule that this is an advisory report request. So that's what you're here for.

520
02:40:02.800 --> 02:40:18.560
>> There we go. >> So um I believe that all of you have already seen this. So I'll I'll I'll keep this as brief as possible. So the only request that was given to us by the owner of the grand was that it the memorial itself be located in front of

521
02:40:18.560 --> 02:40:35.280
the main mass of the hotel as opposed to in front of any of the rooms around the the courtyard parking lot. So the next page just shows that blown up a little bit where you see Beach Avenue being horizontal. The next page shows a site plan as well as a section. The section

522
02:40:35.280 --> 02:40:50.960
at the bottom of this page is is likely the most important of the drawings. And you can see it's kind of hard to see because the scale of this, but there's a dash line where it says existing grade. What's happening here is in that section, Beach Avenue, Beach Drive is to the left. Then there's a little 3-ft

523
02:40:50.960 --> 02:41:07.520
high wooden bulkhead wall. Then 28 ft of five to or I'm sorry 1 to5 grading of landscaping up to the new height of the prominade which will be roughly 5 ft above the current grade that's there now. And at the back of that then is the

524
02:41:07.520 --> 02:41:24.560
cast in place bench with the concave back and then it slopes back down to the beach. So what you have seen is that this is called the portal to freedom and what's drawn into this is an 8ft diameter portal through which you walk into the next page which is the site

525
02:41:24.560 --> 02:41:41.439
plan or I'm sorry the floor plan and the center line that runs right through this whole thing is directly aligned with the line that connects our site to the sinking site of the USS Jacob Jones which was the first US naval vessel sunk

526
02:41:41.439 --> 02:41:57.520
after Germany declared declared war on the United States during the Battle of the Atlantic on February 28th, 1942. So, at the middle of this memorial is a that little circle that generates all these geometries is a two-ft diameter bronze plaque. We are still seeking

527
02:41:57.520 --> 02:42:12.640
permission from the Navy to use bronze that was salvaged from the ship to melt it down and make that plaque. And that sits inside of the shape of the bow of the ship. And the bow of the ship is designed to replicate from the blueprints that we received from the

528
02:42:12.640 --> 02:42:28.880
Navy the actual shape of the bow of the ship. And it's created with floating stainless steel frames that are slightly caned to suggest that the ship is sinking. And those are welded to 7 foot high welded wire fences that are there

529
02:42:28.880 --> 02:42:43.760
in order to provide not unlike these pergolas except now vertically a vertical wall of green planting what I would call a living wall using native pollinator planting in this case coral honeysuckle that's then nested inside of another layer of 6 to 7 foot high bay

530
02:42:43.760 --> 02:42:59.920
berries also intended to serve local habitat. So the next drawing just shows a a a simple elevation of what it would look like from beach dry, but that's a little bit hard to grasp. It's really an architectural drawing. We'll show some renderings in a minute. The most

531
02:42:59.920 --> 02:43:15.280
important thing maybe for you guys on this drawing is that it shows a human. So you can see the just to the right of the of the right portion of the fence. You can see the scale of it. And then the next drawing is what it would appear to look like from

532
02:43:15.280 --> 02:43:32.080
the prominade. The next two drawings, these two, these were created in order for us to do materials takeoffs. These are what I would call nothing more than structural drawings. This is actually the beginnings of what are shop drawings that'll be used to build this, which

533
02:43:32.080 --> 02:43:48.560
we're in the process of creating right now. Actually, we just finished them. But the very next drawing, we start to see in plan. This one, we start to see that it is fully rendered in the context of the site and its planting. And this is a this is a rather important plan to

534
02:43:48.560 --> 02:44:03.680
look at because what's happening here is that line that runs right through the middle of it is actually a slight trough in the base of the concrete and all the concrete slopes towards that and it's tiled so it collects all the rainwater.

535
02:44:03.680 --> 02:44:20.240
So that rainwater is then brought into the planting beds on both sides of the platform. So what happens is this part right here is one foot above the prominade. So you go up two steps on one side or a ramp on the other side and arrive in the arrival space before you

536
02:44:20.240 --> 02:44:35.600
actually penetrate the 8-ft portal. And in that 8ft portal given the next drawing are all 138 names are laser cut all the way through the thickness of that plate. And then there's another layer of

537
02:44:35.600 --> 02:44:52.399
plate stainless steel plate around that. So when the sun diffuses around in that space 6 in space it actually backlights these names. So the names are not dark or carved. They're actually illuminated in light. And at night time, there's a low voltage, very dim LED light that will continue the backlighting. So now

538
02:44:52.399 --> 02:45:07.920
you see in the next drawing the first full rendering of it in three dimensions if you were hovering just a bit above Beach Drive. The next one shows that new wood bulkhead. So you can see it pretty much from eye height on Beach Drive. And then this next one, these next two can

539
02:45:07.920 --> 02:45:23.840
kind of be looked at together. And the reason for that is that the at the back end of it facing the ocean is another portal on a stansion that's two feet in diameter that you stick your face in to look directly out to the sinking site. But when the sun is in alignment directly with the sinking site

540
02:45:23.840 --> 02:45:39.520
on February 28th, perfect alignment to our site. That happens at 9:51 a.m. Its altitude is 33 degrees. And that is placed such that when the sun passes through that circle, it precisely illuminates on the next drawing precisely illuminates the two-ft

541
02:45:39.520 --> 02:45:56.560
diameter plaque which symbolizes the Jacob Jones. And then the last couple of drawings or renderings are just what it looks like from the prominade side. And I think I'm done. Thank you, Mr. Becker. Um and and I think that um members of the commission have probably seen one or more of your

542
02:45:56.560 --> 02:46:11.439
presentations, but I do want to open it up for any comments relating to both presentation, the memorial, uh anything else that the commissioners deem relevant to comment on at this point, and then we're going to have an open uh public uh comment period for the for the

543
02:46:11.439 --> 02:46:30.080
memorial. So, fire away. >> Fire away with your microphone on. I think it's a very um clever design with the uh with the uh alignments and all that kind of thing. I realize that could have been done from sort of any location, but it's it's just a very

544
02:46:30.080 --> 02:46:47.359
wellthoughtout, very um interesting design. I also think it's a a very personal design. Um you know, this has a you have a a feel and touch to this just as you would the Vietnam Memorial in in uh in Washington. And I think that's a

545
02:46:47.359 --> 02:47:03.120
that's a that's an important element to this too. Um it's a very you know individually connected design. Um I was present for the city council um hearing as well as the uh Zoom meeting. I think the presentations have been very nicely

546
02:47:03.120 --> 02:47:19.279
done and and um you know the at the zoom meeting there was I I don't think there was a single um negative comment to it was all positive and at the council meeting it was it was a very wellreceived presentation. So that's that's just my two bits.

547
02:47:19.279 --> 02:47:33.840
>> My question was about the zoom meeting because I did not make that and I wanted to know the reception and Kevin just answered it. Um go ahead. Oh, I'm I'm in support um

548
02:47:33.840 --> 02:47:50.080
of honoring these these gentlemen that went down. I think I I shared with uh John that I read this book um about all the all the ships that went down. So, I found out about this right when I finished the book. >> I think it's a really creative design. I'm really looking forward to see it and

549
02:47:50.080 --> 02:48:05.760
I'm totally in support. Thank you, >> John. I think it's a great design and you've taken a lot of heat off the HPC by your response to the community. from the first rendering to this >> and I mean it really took a lot of work to do and it's greatly appreciated and

550
02:48:05.760 --> 02:48:23.840
from a guy whose father was in the Navy and his grandfather was in the Navy I really appreciate this personally >> Jess >> I um I think it's beautiful and I love the way it renders the story of history

551
02:48:23.840 --> 02:48:39.520
physical and it's not historic it's a new construction construction, but it's sensitive. It It does what we are defending all of our historic buildings.

552
02:48:39.520 --> 02:48:57.200
It brings an emotional resonance to history. >> And I like also the way it invites people to leave the prominade and enter um a personal space.

553
02:48:57.200 --> 02:49:13.359
Uh, I mean, we all do that when we go to the beach. We look at the ocean, we look at the sunset, we look at the sunrise, we look at families. There's just so many alive happenings at the beach. And here we

554
02:49:13.359 --> 02:49:32.720
have a memorial of people who lost their lives so that we could do that. >> To you, Tom. Being in the oldest resort, I think this is one of the newest and greatest monuments I've seen in a long

555
02:49:32.720 --> 02:49:50.240
time. As much as I love to see generals and sabers and horseback and things like that all around, this is very unique and I think it'll be very, very wellreceived. Visitors will just really it's so different. It's got a flock to

556
02:49:50.240 --> 02:50:04.240
them. I'm not sure if they'll all be there February 28th, but it's going to be very popular. >> A little cold on February 28th, but um >> over to you. >> Thank you. Um no, this remor memorial is

557
02:50:04.240 --> 02:50:22.399
so exciting for the city. Um John, you have just knocked this one out of the park. you really between the, you know, the the thought that went into all of this, the, you know, the the the altitude, the the degrees, I mean, the the thought, the I mean, everything. Um,

558
02:50:22.399 --> 02:50:38.720
the nature plannings, um, it's just amazing. And but I think part of the key is is you take a look at the location of where it where it's being proposed and you look across the street and you look at the grand and you see that tower that the grand is built around. Um I just

559
02:50:38.720 --> 02:50:54.880
think and then and then getting the blessing for from the grand. Um they have the beautiful, you know, the the the uh flag pole. Um talked about possible ceremonies happening there. Um I just think it's a it's a it's a huge win for the city. I just think that

560
02:50:54.880 --> 02:51:10.880
we're memorializing, you know, it's something that should have been done years ago. Um, but it's it it really is it's a blessing and you um you really did a great job and as Kevin said, there was nobody I mean everybody was in very much support of this at the council

561
02:51:10.880 --> 02:51:26.960
meeting and um yes, we'll see how >> well we have you to thank for suggesting that site. >> Well, we we we will see how things go tomorrow night. Yeah, was it was it was mentioned that um the um >> that the organization um adjusted to

562
02:51:26.960 --> 02:51:41.600
community input with respect to choosing the site and and pardon me, but I do have to mention the relevance of what we're doing here in terms of the criteria. We're talking about a new structure um a a memorial that will probably become well known and a famous

563
02:51:41.600 --> 02:51:58.080
memorial, but it's being put into a major area on Beach Avenue which is in the commercial zone. It's it's in front of a non-contributing building, so there is zero prospect of there being any harm to this, even though it's not within our

564
02:51:58.080 --> 02:52:13.439
immediate jurisdiction because it's on the south side of the uh of the uh the bulkhead. U there's no prospect that this memorial can harm any of the streetscape. Rather, I think we're going to think even though it's not a historic design,

565
02:52:13.439 --> 02:52:28.479
that it's probably going to improve streetscape. It's going to improve a fair number of things. Uh so I so I think that uh uh and and there's there's no way I'm going to comment about how much more merit this deserves because you've received that o overly. I I do want to though before we make a motion

566
02:52:28.479 --> 02:52:51.359
with respect to the report open the floor to any public comment should there be any uh desire to be made. >> Jules, are you going to going to step up to the uh to the podium? Jules Ralph, 1010 New York Avenue. First, I'd like to get make the comment.

567
02:52:51.359 --> 02:53:06.640
I support this this project. That's that's not my concern at all. Um my my father was drafted in the Navy in World War II. I've served I've got lots of relatives. So, that's not the issue. The issue is we've got a project before the

568
02:53:06.640 --> 02:53:25.040
city that is being frankly bypassing what you just spent two hours doing, reviewing applications for for projects. This, as I see it now, is coming before you and the city to approve it without

569
02:53:25.040 --> 02:53:42.880
any real review of the project as a development. It is a major development and it deserves to be reviewed on that basis. There's been no discussion about parking, lighting, what where are the people going to go? How is it how is it

570
02:53:42.880 --> 02:54:00.800
going to be administered? Uh the all of the the major items that go into any planning development is not has not been done. There's there's been no interest in following through with those with those criteria.

571
02:54:00.800 --> 02:54:16.319
The comments been made that the city owns the land. Well, quite frankly, when that when that bulkhead was built by the Army Corps of Engineers in 196162, they own that stone. That's theirs. And

572
02:54:16.319 --> 02:54:30.800
you're going to build on top of something that belongs to some someone else. I don't know that I don't know that there's been evidence to show that the city has frankly the right to do that without approval from the Army Corps of Engineers and whether there's a

573
02:54:30.800 --> 02:54:48.560
D requirement for a caffer permit. Generally, it's been thought of that anything east of Beach Avenue must have a a recaper permit. I don't know if that's the case or not, but there's there's so many items that frankly this

574
02:54:48.560 --> 02:55:04.960
board and the city in my view needs to review that they normally would do on any development. So, um that's that's my concern. Uh, I could go through a long list of items which have not been before

575
02:55:04.960 --> 02:55:21.439
you. Signs, lighting, you know, that list is long and you know it much much better than than I do. So, there are my comments and um I'm just concerned that we're moving ahead with something without any any real frankly factual

576
02:55:21.439 --> 02:55:36.319
review. >> Mr. Roush, >> thank you for your comments. Chill. >> Mr. Roush, if I may just respond to that. >> Sure. I'm seeing this from my standpoint that this is coming to it came to city council. It's now before the HPC. It's

577
02:55:36.319 --> 02:55:51.600
going to be before council again tomorrow via resolution that follows multiple >> presentations before the public soliciting public feedback. so that before it's presented in final form to

578
02:55:51.600 --> 02:56:06.720
the city to now navigate any applicable permitting procedures, they wanted to solicit and make sure they were getting that feedback from the f the public. So, there was a pretty robust effort here from the organization to to make sure what they were doing was consistent with

579
02:56:06.720 --> 02:56:23.920
the city. Now they're proceeding through the process that anybody else follows just like this any other city project seeking advisory approval. There's going to be Shipo uh review which is under the D's umbrella.

580
02:56:23.920 --> 02:56:39.840
So you know those questions will be flushed out. But I think this the design they had in mind was to scale it down and not over complicate things and make something that could fit within. Let's face it, we're already building a seaw

581
02:56:39.840 --> 02:56:56.560
wall there at some point. This is going to be incorporated within that. So I I have to push back um on the idea that the city's just kind of like blowing through something because that's not what I'm seeing from my standpoint. I don't think anybody that's involved is really approaching it that way. So, I

582
02:56:56.560 --> 02:57:12.319
just want to you had your comment. I have to push back on that a bit um with that factual background because that's the process we're in right now. >> And and and I'd also like to point out that um we are here and and we're not here. We can comment on the artistic

583
02:57:12.319 --> 02:57:29.279
merits of of this. Um and and and I say that and I and I did comment on it its its relationship to people because because I also am the son of a World War II veteran. But I do want to make it un understood that this these design

584
02:57:29.279 --> 02:57:46.319
standards are are what govern our view of of something that we have put in front of us either for approval or for an advisory report which is which is where we are today. same the same standards apply and and I'm assuming that because all of you participated in

585
02:57:46.319 --> 02:58:00.800
doing this and you know them and you know what's relevant that that and and if you see something that is um more than a um more than uh an effect on streetscape which is how I see this uh

586
02:58:00.800 --> 02:58:18.399
this in terms of our function for review uh this this is a judgment I'm making with respect to the merits of this project and how it relates to the streetscape in that particular area which north of Beach Avenue is part of the historic district. So, so my personal feeling is that the merits of

587
02:58:18.399 --> 02:58:36.240
this judged by these standards do not violate our streetscape rules and and and therefore are consistent with with an approval for the project. So, that's that's where that's where I'm coming from in terms of of >> So, solicitor, you are assuring us that all due diligence has been done.

588
02:58:36.240 --> 02:58:52.319
>> Yeah. Well, and Mr. Rash, I I just wanted to say that, you know, obviously there's a different standard how much purview we have regarding an applicant from the public where we have to issue a certificate of appropriateness and it's a much higher standard. When it comes to a municipal project, we are simply in an

589
02:58:52.319 --> 02:59:08.800
advisory role. >> That's exactly what I was going to say. >> But Jake, the standards are the same. Yeah. The same I mean our role is to issue a report either a favorable advisory report or an unfavorable one. The standards that we go by are the same regardless of who the applicant is. >> Yeah. So, so we we we're treating this

590
02:59:08.800 --> 02:59:23.680
as as if a private person, we're we're to we're to present this uh as as it's been presented. >> And again, once we get into parking and signage and all that kind of stuff, that's I think beyond our purview. We're looking at streetscape and I think everybody agrees it's going to fit in

591
02:59:23.680 --> 02:59:41.279
very nicely. It's passes. It's not a anything that's really going to, you know, it's out of proportion or anything. So I think it's >> someday we may have jurisdiction south of the seaw wall but we don't right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But nonetheless this is being reviewed

592
02:59:41.279 --> 02:59:56.720
pursuant to the standards. That's why they're here. >> Yeah. >> That's why it's running through this process. And that will go to Shipo. >> Yeah. And and we are really only a part of the review process and and that's why all of this is being done in review committee. this is being done in front

593
02:59:56.720 --> 03:00:11.359
of the full body and everybody has a chance to express their view of how it relates to uh to to the to the community aside from the merits of how important a memorial is. So, thank you for your comment and um if it's uh all right with

594
03:00:11.359 --> 03:00:28.800
commissioners, um I would move that we grant this application a favorable advisory report to be given to the to the city and the and the group. >> I'll second that motion. Mr. Carol, >> please on the on the motion. >> Mr. Carol,

595
03:00:28.800 --> 03:00:45.080
>> yes. >> Miss Bagno, >> voting as far as the streetscape. Yes. >> Miss Wilson Shurik, >> yes. >> Mr. Stevenson, >> yes. >> Miss Decker, >> yes. >> Mr. Hammerin, >> yes. >> Mr. Ta, >> yes.

596
03:00:45.439 --> 03:01:02.319
>> Thank you. >> Did you get to >> You uh you may reassume the chair. All right. So, that really concludes our applications for this evening. And I don't really have much to discuss except

597
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I'd love to hear Lraine and Janice report back any comments or reflections they'd like to make about the extraordinary design awards and ceremony that occurred last week.

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Go ahead. >> So, we have a standing committee that we're going to be meeting um what is it the second Tuesday. >> Yeah. Or sooner. We can >> or sooner we can. Um so, the the committee is going to reconvene. We do

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have some uh kind of debriefing and comments that we want to review. If we could hold off, I think until our next meeting. >> Yeah. And I also would like to invite um any any feedback from the HBC

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>> um for our debriefing. Like for instance, this morning Lauren sent us an email that one of the owners of a condo at the Joseph Leech House had had not been able to make the awards ceremony and wondered if there was a certificate

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or something. And we realized we hadn't thought about a simple certificate for every every person who >> as a participant. >> Yeah. For instance, with the mainstay, all of the previous owners could have a simple commenation or certificate,

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something to ha to have. Mhm. >> I haven't stopped crying since I've been >> said said by the guy who accepts about half the awards >> that are given here. >> And there's issues about we've you know

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our goal is to make this a sustainable annual event with the building awards periodic because they are specific to how many resolutions we pass and projects get completed. So, it's a much

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longer process than the stewardship or the leadership awards which we could easily have >> annually >> many. >> I mean, there's just so many homeowners and building owners who have maintained their buildings that we would love to

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honor over year after year. But, um, one of the challenges is the database of our resolutions. And I was talking to Stephen Smullen about that and he said even in some of the larger cities like where he sits uh

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the database is maintained separately by a member of the commission on an Excel spreadsheet. Yeah. So this dream of just hitting the button with SDL, the city database, even cities with bigger budgets, the the

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staff, they don't have the ability to just reel off these beautiful reports like we imagined. >> So I mean there there's reality check. What kind of report were you? >> Well, um, what Judy and I did was go

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through years worth of resolutions and set up an Excel spreadsheet and then refine it so that we could use it for all of our different questions like street reviews and um, we need to we need to find out which projects have

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been completed. Are they compliant? and these reports where we where we thought they would be just a matter of asking and getting a print out. It wasn't it wasn't like that. >> What kind of data points like were you

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looking for that you couldn't really cross reference that? Well, >> um >> the reason I'm asking is because if if there's some way I can help >> it would be the resolution part of things I think but it's not only the resolutions. It was the project completed. Um and and did it adhere to

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all of you know I mean all of the different um >> so the resolution was just a component of that. >> It was a component of it. >> I mean one of the things is a HPC filter of which projects are actually um

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relevant you know our criteria and that's not something the construction office needs to think about. So that's that's our project, but >> we did the internal project. >> But if this was done by a to me, this is not a big deal. This is something that a member of the standing committee could

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do month by month >> periodically. Yeah. >> Because it's as simple as this. It's almost as simple as the agenda. >> Except you want to have the street address and and >> and then what category and >> so I'm sorry, we're getting into the

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weeds. Yeah. the type of thing that we need to talk about in >> sounds like a good subject for a committee meeting. Yeah. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Good news is next time you only have two or three years to go through instead of eight. >> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Just just real quick though, if everybody could think about because I

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know Janice was asking for feedback. If everybody could think about um we were looking at stewardship and leadership being possibly every year. um how do we you know we were thinking of not having it as a public outreach having it as an

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internal whether it's with council I mean thoughts on how we would solicit that >> we were disappointed in the number of applications >> exactly >> and maybe it's it's too honorous people you know people dread coming before us

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because of the applications and if that's true also for stewardship and leadership then maybe we need to find a way to to do it. >> Highlight those people that are doing the right thing. >> And I and I also along the same lines that uh if the commission is thinking

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about awards then put that in your cap when you have applicants and projects that are happening. Like when I drive in and I see that house fun Lafayette that's raised I'm like that could be

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one of our future awardees. And people would love it if you know we kind of were paying attention as they're actually doing the project. >> I So just Okay, I ordered quite a few

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more. There's I think 12 more plaques that are coming in. Do we put one up here to show? I don't just a thought. >> So I I would like to suggest the following.

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There's a bunch of questions you guys are still >> playing with, >> right? I'll send an email. >> Well, no. I would actually like to suggest you guys have your committee meeting and come back to us with what you after due deliberation are recommending and present what you think

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is best. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Because we also have the new Carolyn Pitts Leadership Award plaque. That's got to go somewhere. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So that'd be great. Just once again, I can't say enough about how

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amazing that whole program was and the amount of effort it took and blah blah. I don't want to say blah blah blah because it's like a lot. Okay. Um, we have a couple of big tasks yet we have to get done this year or don't have to, but I'd like to suggest

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we'd like to. Now that all the work that's been done for the historic preservations awards are out of the way, we have some space. I would suggest and they are in fact the local historic district map amendment and very tightly conjoined with that are

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the property reports. I kind of think that the property reports have to proceed that. So Judy I'm um you and I have talked about moving forward with that and you said you would be happy to work with me on that. >> So I'll I'll send you an email. we can

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move forward on that because what I'm trying to think of is the the next thing would be when's our next um our next HBC alignment workshop and I I think what I was holding and tell me if this is accurate from the last one is that the

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next one would be again about preparing for the presentation to the public on the this local historic district >> map amendment >> map amendment. So we did that last year. We spent we spent one whole alignment

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workshop aligning around what should we present and how and all that. That would then reserve the third one of the year if we have time this year. I hope we do to go through the long list of areas where we may want to amend and revise. What what have we

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learned in in almost three years now? I think we've learned a lot, >> right? And I think there's some things that we could clarify. And there's a a section on city signage un uniformity that we are working on with a subcommittee that I

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need to get on. Right. Um which by the way I'll be sending you guys an email about that uh probably tomorrow to see what there are some dates that we at HBC level can work on. So just as a reminder, there's a task force for city

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signage uniformity that is all about taking city signage and having it be created in a way that is conducive and with and condo and cogent with the K may I don't know uh zeitgeist brand uh

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imagery feel context right so our job >> a lot of synonyms >> there's a lot I know a lot of synonyms So Tom and Kevin and Lorraine and I have been working on this and our I think our next step is is to actually draft a first draft of >> Yeah. And what I what I thought I could

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do before our meeting is I would put together an outline based upon all the notes we have from my I think what have we had four meetings something like that. >> Yeah. So I'll do that and I all I'll be doing is soliciting from you guys. need something >> um available dates and and you were

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helpful in that we don't think this really needs to be anything more than what's already in the zoning ordinance. This can all reside as an amendment to our standards, right? >> Potentially. Yeah. I mean, because it it's going to be something that's going to be the city's going to

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>> direct. Yeah. So, these are actually city um city signs. It has nothing to do with the signage, >> right? It's what we as a city are going to follow. internally. >> Correct. Internally, >> but but but with respect to amendments of the design standards

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>> which which were which of of which there are a number of things that will be addressed starting a list. >> Yeah. No, I'm saying and with that >> that does need to be >> run through the council process. >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. So, um I that's it unless anybody has any other comments. I do have one other thing to bring up, but >> I did have a quick one. Um, you know, we had talked about how we're going to move forward our new priorities and one of them was going beyond simple architectural review and looking into infrastructure. And I don't know whether

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anyone's noticed, but in front of Kier's Lakers, they just put these ugly looking big ballards there. It's right when you come into town. And I don't know whether they the city ever came in and ran it by the review committee or anyone, but I think we

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should have had some kind of a role in that because it's just in my opinion anyway, it's not appropriate. >> H >> really >> Yeah, they're just big ugly. >> I guess I need to make it to that part of town. >> Yeah, they could go, >> but I mean, you know, they could have done something that maybe had a little

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more of a >> So you got to park chains or >> That's a That's really interesting. >> Yeah, it is a fire signage. We should >> Thank you. >> Yeah. But I'm saying, you know, >> again, if

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>> but if we are concerned about, you know, that sense of place, >> I mean, we should look at these little details. >> The city wants to do something like that, they should run it by us. >> No, thanks, Jake. I think you're right. And I >> we can take we can expand the definition

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of signage a little bit. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. That should that should have been sent to us by the building department probably. >> Yeah. Things that are put out to attract attention are in fact signage. >> They Yeah. >> Not just entertainment. This is so

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you'll come to my >> These Ballards do attract attention. That's for sure. >> Yeah. Yeah. Good and bad, huh? >> That's to keep you from driving into Collars. >> Yeah. But they can. >> It's not a drive-thru. >> Okay. Um I just wanted to tell you guys one little thing that

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happened out of the blue. Uh about 10 days ago, I I got a call from a fellow who is deeply concerned about his uh house in the family in um Stone

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Harbor that resides in the most historical part of Stone Harbor, which is between 99th and 112th Street. and it's right next to a church, but there's another lot next to it that a developer wants to come in and build a McMansion.

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And so this got him thinking and he wrote, I met with him like three times. He ended up writing a um what what's it called, Judy? When you submit and you're trying to submit the shipo consideration

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for uh historic district or propos >> Oh, here. Hold on. I have it right here. Now, it's called a So, this is 19page document that this guy put together. Um, statement of historic context, but

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there's a name for this. >> Do you mean like a like an amikas brief? >> Oh, multiple property submission. National nationalist register of historic places. And he included, I believe, 12 properties. Um, and it wants to extend it even further to the, you know, those two halfb block streets

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>> which are what what are they called? >> Cottages. >> Yeah, they're all the all those workers cottages. It's extraordinary. >> It is unbelievable. >> It's really unbelievable. So, I just wanted you guys to be aware that I've been working on the side here. It has nothing to do with Kate May. It's it's

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>> What What is the historic preservation status if they have none in Stone Harbor? that affluent community that >> there is zero prides itself >> nothing in stone harbor nothing in Avalon nothing in Cape >> May point >> so what what he's trying to do is create

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two things one is a >> sounds like a district a small district >> a small district >> contained district >> and also an HPC to choreograph what gets done in that district >> so did he was asking you for assistance with that process

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>> yeah and so I I pointed him to to Andrea sent all those documents to Andrea. >> So, how does how do the >> it's probably >> how does Stone Harbor reacting to this or he hasn't idea. >> Has he presented it to the >> I don't think so. >> He's been speaking with a couple of the

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commissioners, but I'm not sure what's person. I just wanted you guys to know I'm doing this personally. It has nothing to do with HPC. >> I felt a need to support him and his efforts because of what he was doing. I think it's spoton >> and necessary. I mean, >> helpful. Well, while we hate to dilute

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your talents, um the fact is that if there isn't importance in Stone Harbor of preserving the historical aspect of some part of that town, someone ought to be helping them move ahead. >> It's a difficult process. >> It's very difficult

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>> to undertake. I mean, I've done it myself in Pennsylvania. I know the hurdles it takes to establish a historic board. >> Um people are recalcitant. I just don't want >> he would have to have sympathy for those values in the community, right? So So Stone Harbor would have to have that

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that indigenous support. >> Yeah, he needs support from some significant residents and and people in charge of the government would really help. I mean, we can go to support that if we wanted to. Um I I was Dorothy is doing has just done this in Morristown,

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New Jersey, where my daughter lives. Um and there was significant push back from some >> So remember guys, it wasn't easy here in >> It's not easy historical. >> Do they even have a >> So Judy, thanks for >> Yeah. So historical there's a historical

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society in in Stone Harbor and Avalon, but of course that's completely separate. That's a nonprofit. Um, but of course they can also support the >> but they they could move toward a government agency, you know, a historic preservation commission, but that's going to involve also political will.

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>> I mean, they do have a really nice downtown. They have a nice theater. I think it would be great if they had some review process. >> Remember, they they they kept the theater we lost, >> but it is usually a project like that, a demolition >> or a historic structure being threatened.

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>> Yeah. It's sort of the spark that Yes, but it's weak >> house. >> They just need to get Taylor Swift on. >> Get Taylor Swift on. >> That'll do for the seafood festival in Stone Harbor. >> So, folks, do we have any other issues?

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I just I just wanted you guys all to be aware of that. So, not a mystery, right? Um, any other questions, comments, reflections, concerns? >> I haven't we haven't determined it yet. Thank you. >> I originally thought it would be sometime in June, but I think it's going

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to be probably more like July because we have some work to do. >> Okay. So, I would like to entertain.