We cannot go off agenda today. >> Greetings. And as the as far as I know, the only person in Cape May County that says happy holidays because it's ingrained in me from my 35 years in HR. Happy holidays to everyone. >> Happy holiday >> and merry Christmas.
>> Merry Christmas and happy Hanukkah and whatever. >> Yep. >> Let's pledge the flag. >> That's for everybody to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. appreciate the people giving us toys to take home with me. >> Um, as um I mentioned in the email yesterday, we do have the opportunity
tomorrow to uh join the recognition lunchon. Um, we Moren and I have talked offline and we'll make sure that next year we get a little bit a little bit more notice. >> Um, but again, if you'd like to um come to the lunchon, it's noon tomorrow at um at the convention hall. I noticed on the
way in the employees get an hour and 45 minutes off for um for the lunchon. So, uh it'll be apparently fairly brief. >> Yep. >> Uh I passed along the minutes from the October 9th meeting. Um I I I had mentioned last time that I was going to
consider having a secretary added. I'm going to hang on to this for a little while because I actually found it extremely useful to go back and watch the meeting and take notes because I can't take the kind of notes that I would even if I were a member as the chair and it helped me to understand
some of the things that need to carry over until 2026 and make sure that I'm capturing the sentiments of the people that were in attendance which were very valuable um and will steer our action. So, for the time being, I'm going to hold on to it unless somebody tells me I can't. Um, so with that, I would uh
appreciate a motion to approve the October 9th minutes. >> I'll make the motion. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. Motions are the minutes are approved. >> I I would add uh that I thought you did
a great job of these minutes, so I would support you continuing for someone. Someone that did not attend Well, that's the other reason I think I do think it's helpful. Um, I do of course encourage all the members when they can't attend to watch the the the
live stream. Um, but even watching the live stream or the way that I do it in the car, um, you there are nuances on each topic that escape and I think that watching it again, you know, I thought I would be taking a few notes. I completely filled the page. So, um, it
it was valuable and it's because you're all so thoughtful and, you know, you all come so well prepared with either the facts or with your own personal opinions. Those that information is important to me. Um, Moren, time for your update if you
don't mind. >> Yeah, not at all. So, um, I did check in with the, uh, clerk's office. Erin shared with me that through the process of uh this past season at the end of it that when they were using Rental Scape, which is the product we now have to be
able to verify uh homes are registered with a Merkantile license in the city uh versus those that might be displayed on Airbnb and Verbbo available. 34 certified letters were sent out to renting homeowners based on what was found in Rental Scape. 25 of the 34 were
paid and licenses issued. There was one paid but not yet approved by the zoning officer. I did not ask for specifics and details. I didn't feel that was really um my place. One not renting. It had an incorrect address listed in rental skate
and one a certified letter bounced back as undelivered not picked up. So they are uh from this number you can see that there are still some that they are pursuing um and have not been completely reconciled. >> Sure. So the first >> you said the first number was the ones
that had paid these were they had proven that they had already paid or they said they paid as a result of this? >> They paid us as a result of this. Okay. So um I asked Erin to sort of just give me a sense of how uh her office and code enforcement found this uh rentalcape and
using it. Um and her comment was, "My office as well as code enforcement has found it to be an extremely helpful not only with identifying non-compliant properties, but also with providing detailed information on all the licensed and unlicensed properties in the city.
We anticipate anticipate being able to utilize it more next year as we have we work to tweak how the information appears in SDL to better transfer over to the rental scape system. What they found is a simple example that I'm familiar with is in rentalscape it lists
the address and it might have you know one 123 Main Street apartment a all listed there. Well in SDL it doesn't present that way. It's in multiple um boxes. So in trying to cross reference they're they're working their way
through it. So um also this year they had another uh update that they did in the uh in the um clerk's office with taking online payments. So they are going through a continuing uh you know learning curve as well as you know trying to modify and make this more
efficient. Um so they're really confident but code enforcement uh Erin said in particular found has found this to be very helpful. It gives history so if a property was has been rented for four or five years it that information is there. um and you know it list in
detail uh most of the uh most of the time specifics number of bedrooms so you've got a cross reference tool um so I think that next year it's really going to give them a lot more uh utilization than it did this past year which was just when it was installed
>> remind me what was the cost of the rental escapes this system >> uh 20 >> that's the number I remember >> yeah I think I I'm almost I will say with 95% certainty was 20,000 and and is there any tiein? Um, and I'll just say from personal experience. So, I
I have the opportunity because I have multiple rentals to pay the hotel motel tax and there are some that don't have that opportunity to pay that uh hotel motel tax. And I'm certainly aware of more than one that are supposed to be paying the hotel motel tax and and are not paying the hotel motel tax. And I'm
not looking to turn those people in, but I'm wondering if there are if there are tie-ins between Rental Scape that would identify uh that source of revenue as well that is not being um paid appropriately. >> So, we'd have to go back to Rental Scape
because they don't they don't step their toe in that space as far as I know. >> Plus, we don't get a good reconciliation from the state of New Jersey on who pays. We get like some of the top paying. Yeah. We in other words, they just send us a check and they say, "Oh,
these are your like I'll say top 10. I'm sure Erin has the exact number, but here's your top 10 or top 20 >> payers." Yeah. >> Which obviously are going to be the hotels in town. They're not going to find out if Joe Smith rents his place and he's, you know, making a payment
through because of through the Airbnb. So, they're not going to you're not going to see that granular. state's not going to give us that granular data to that level. Um, another thing I just would add, we're also going to look into >> Rental Scape doesn't necessarily al at
this point scrub all of the realtor websites. So, that'll be something we work on with Rental Scape next year on expanding their fingers in in in the uh on the internet to other venues that might have
I'm not going to say we're going to find >> a plethora of but but we're just going to make sure that we can we're tracking all of the different databases online that that that are available. >> It's not going to be 900. >> It's not going to be 900. Their their program focuses specifically on a 24/7
kind of scrubbing of the Airbnb verbos and home vacations, rentals by owner, those that's really where they've put their sort of effort. Anything outside of that is not Yeah. And keeping in mind that there two systems on the city side, you know, we have SDL which is the
product that we utilize to be able to register and keep track of payments that should be made, insurance documents that should be submitted, etc. And the other piece of it is it's the payment part goes into admins. So there's, you know, there's three different systems. These
systems don't interface. This is all coming. Here's an application that came in. Let's check to make sure that they've never or they've ran it before. Oh, they've not. Let's go and verify, etc. And then the actual payment gets posted in a completely different system.
It's just the nature of how much time, energy, and and certainly Rentcape is not going to start interfacing links to our systems because they'd have to offer that as an option to a multitude of municipalities. So, it's sort of >> I I would venture to say there is a
substantial re revenue opportunity. Um, again, just from personal experience, it was very difficult for me to even figure out how to file and pay. Um, so I just can't imagine that other people have gone through that process to actually undertake it because it's
>> difficult and it's thousands of dollars a year. >> My guess are the people the only people are paying are the ones that are collected automatically through Airbnb and Verbbo. the the other people that are doing it through other systems probably are not complying. And
obviously if you're if you're renting through a rental agency, you're not >> right >> governed under it. So >> if you're private renting then and and if you're collecting it and then not submitting it, that's >> but that but but we're never going to find >> you're never going to find them.
>> It's more that they again. So, I have >> Yep. >> the IRS probably >> I have the pleasure of of collecting of making my properties be 15% more expensive than anybody else's and I get to give it all give it all away. And so, again, I I believe that there are there
is a revenue opportunity. >> So, we'll we'll continue to pursue this. I asked Moren for an update and thank you. Thank you very much for that. It's very helpful. Um, in a town like Cape May, not including the scrubbing of the rent of the of the realtors is big because many many many properties are
through the realtors. Maybe we can find another way to do that. Maybe that's still something that is beneficial to the city. Rentalcape rentalscape once they once we help identify to rentalscape the realtor's >> the URLs. Excellent.
>> Then they can plug that in and then they will great that'll add it to their >> okay search to go find it. If you or Moren could let us know when that's been effectuated that >> well just it's just something we have got to talk with rental. >> We have to talk to them find out how much programming arrows it would take
after we get the list together. I would hope um that we would have it for the upcoming season. Um but we'll see what uh they're able to do >> to give you some sense of that the 25 that are now paid and licensed that's roughly $7,500. So it's it's you know it's a significant chunk of the cost of
the program and we're not there yet. And is there a is there a fine for >> Yes, there is. But not this year in particular, we sort of gave you know um you know pay up by a certain period of time. People did not get dinged if you want >> keep paying grace.
>> Yeah. And so we we didn't approach this for that reason. Um it was really a part of it as and I think if you read the article uh that um Zach was quoted in I mean part of it is safety of people coming here and running homes making
sure that fire safety is done on a routine basis and that people are insured which is another piece of this that has changed in the last couple years is required by the state. So those were the key drivers um to be honest with you. Um and so but the benefit is
um code enforcement is utilizing this which is you know good news. So >> it's also a fairness issue but but Marine and Paul not to be the cheapkate here but when I've used these kinds of things in the past usually uh there's a lot more work in the first year than there is on an ongoing basis. And you
would think that that might be reflected in Rental Scapes renewals. >> Yeah. Actually, they that's just built into them because when we first met with them, they had all of our data alerts. They're scrubbing every town already. >> I will tell you most because they're
hitting the Airbnb and then they're they're grabbing all of that data. So, I mean, you could go to any town and they've already got that data. And I will say to you, it was one of the challenges that we've had in the past and be able to discern and the work that
Sarah did was making sure that we had the right zip code captured. I asked first question to them when they sent and they nailed just Kate May City, which was critically important when trying to understand uh what our demographic was. So
>> does everybody >> I have it. Does everybody understand it that we're not dinging them if they sign up now? >> Um, I think that we had that discussion um at some point, Mike, to be honest with you. Not it was not included, I
don't think, in the communication, but I'd have to go back and look at the letter, but I think that I think there was certainly public kind of in in the presentation at council. You know, this was very much to focus on please get registered. we need to make sure that your, you know, fire inspections are
taking place, that your safety um is critically important, that you're insured, and we have evidence of that. It's a state law. So, I think we did try and focus on that, but >> and it may be then, you know, we're not dinging people now. It may be a time to
say, um, look, get it get it done before the next >> Well, I think the compiance >> we will start ding. >> Yeah. It's an amnesty kind of thing. Well, and the other piece of this is I don't anticipate that we're going to have hundreds of thousand hundreds of homes coming on. We have probably
saturated that what we need to it will be the onesie twoosies that come on and off that might be >> to the fairness of the 26 that that applied as a result of the exercise. Okay. We need to follow up on the eight that haven't >> because they've now paid
>> and as as in response to the >> hundreds have paid, right? It's just these people. >> Correct. chose not to in the beginning. That's why we've gone down this from a from a safety perspective, from a fairness perspective. It is a new initiative. >> Change is difficult in Cape May. So, I
can understand being lenient, but at the same time, I would offer that this the eight that didn't haven't yet fully responded should have to still pay for 2025 once they renew 26 because the others also had to. >> I I
>> I want to caution you. I just want to state that we're not clear that they they were actually all rentals. So, the clerk's office is still following up on the, you know, because there are some nuances that occur with that. So, but we have on the list to follow up on the realer's websites and when we could uh
have a discussion with Rentyncape about that. So, >> thanks again. I really appreciate that and and please keep us informed. I know that Sarah is particularly interested in staying staying informed on this on this topic. Yeah. Um, I I failed to mention we do have a hard stop today at 4:30. Somebody else
needs the room at 5 for a party that we're not invited to. So, >> fine. >> It's not a party. >> It's a public hearing, so you're more than happy to stay and participate if you so choose to. >> Um, under old business, the um the subcommittee, Mike, Ron, and I on the
municipal budget appropriations cap did meet as I mentioned in the minutes. Um, we have some really good ideas and uh we did take the opportunity to um have a meeting with um with Zach and Paul um to
be able to talk through uh what our next steps were to make sure that we had alignment with what the city's ex expectations were. Um we are in complete alignment. Um that's the that's the good news. Um there's a little bit of a of a brief delay as we are changing over the
duties of the CFO. Um we were um Paul Paul requested and and I happily granted a bit of a stay until January to meet with the new CFO and begin to explore our ideas a little bit more thoroughly. Um, but it is definitely something that
um, as Ron had requested during the last meeting um, to try to come up with a few ideas for 2000 for the 2026 budget cycle and that is still my objective. Um, even if they're not fully fleshed out, I've seen some things that I think are easily considerable. Whether the city decides
to do them or not is the city's decision. >> Any questions on the on the progress on that at all or gentlemen, do you want to add anything to that? >> Okay. >> Uh, yeah, great. It was great discussion. and I appreciate the transparency uh you know all around. So,
>> um okay, the resident parking permit fees uh as a matter of old business um for those of you that uh may not have that have lives and don't watch every city meeting um the the ordinance was um presented and then passed reasonably
consistent with our recommendation. They they did keep the year- round residential um fee for those with no parking meter at 500, which was our recommendation. Um they did elect to make the fee higher, 750 for people in meter spaces where we felt as if um that
wasn't something that the owner of the property controls. Um, I'm always happy to see um the results of our work be given significant consideration and obviously when something that you've asked for or suggested is implemented um
that's that's very much proof. Not that it wouldn't have been proof if it weren't, but it's always nice to see. Um just as a matter of follow through for um for for those that um may not be aware, the ordinance was passed on
November 17th and um it is still being considered for further um for further um >> amendment. >> Amendment. Thank you. to on on the topic of well what is a residential property
and more more to come on that nothing nothing really that concerns MTRA we could say that it's a revenue matter if they tighten the definition up further but it's so dimminimous that it's not really >> issue >> not an MRA issue but it is an issue for concerned citizens
>> um so that >> it really isn't I didn't think it was a resident parking I thought it was a property owner parking permit >> currently That's correct. >> And isn't that the amendment or isn't that the new ordinance? >> Well, again, it's beyond the scope of of MTRA. So,
>> isn't that >> the new ordinance is resident >> does say res? >> It does in many in many places, but residential from the definition of residential versus commercial. So, now the the subject that's on the table is what's the definition of residential?
>> Right. Any questions or comments? That item will uh will now drop off until unless we're asked to give additional input. >> I guess my only question maybe you you know this or not. Do we know how many seasonal?
>> How many did you say Marie? >> 68. >> It's 68 in total. That includes all >> and that and then there were how many season >> and two who are merkantile. >> And how many were seasonal? >> We don't we don't count seasonal. If they don't rent their property, we don't care. >> No, no. The there was some number of
seasonal passes, though. It was a small number. >> This this year you had there was a breakdown of seasonal and yearly. There was a break I forget what that number is, but it >> it's an insignificant amount of money in total at the end of the day. >> Sure. >> Give me a minute and see. I'll see if I can figure
>> Yeah, the reference was that it was a small number. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't remember the number >> because well because part of the recommendation was the concern that people are paying the smaller number of 350 >> we're going to get get hit with a very large increase >> right
>> that's why you only kept it at 500 I thought >> correct >> so the this data was not had not has not yet been introduced if we want to talk about it some more we can bring it back up under u round table um that brings us to beach conceptions
um Moren Paul and I um met once again uh since our last uh meeting at least once maybe twice and I did circulate to you for comment in advance of the meeting uh the current city proposal. Um it's been
a very interesting process. Um, I personally learned a lot about the program and I expect that those of you that did sort of dive into the numbers that that were sent around um probably learned learned a few a thing or two as
well. Um, what was interesting to me was that the history here goes back decades that that there's no real reason known in some cases why is this particular parcel priced at this particular number and it
wasn't even this last cycle but 10 or 15 or maybe even 20 years ago um that that a a number wound up out of alignment. Um I I think the key is as I explained in the email um what we've done here, what the city has decided to do is to move
from a proposal that tried to even things out in 2026 a bit to instead saying well that's resulting in some transition issues on certain parcels um that one could question the fairness of
and even the driver of. Um so we had a very good discussion about alternative proposals and what we all arrived at was to say let's target having everyone on an even playing field in 2030 and and basically increase everyone by 5% in
2026 um as um sort of a a level set. And then we took specific properties on the hotel sides that looked normally priced and took the average of all the regular
parcels on a linear foot basis. Um and we then increased those numbers by 3% a year through 2030. That gave us the the the the numbers that we need then needed to shoot for. Okay. Um >> can I can I just ask two clarifying questions? >> Let me just finish that thought. Okay.
Sure. of $9045 for the hotel parcels and $3745 for the um for the regular parcels. I I I did offer to round those off a little bit, but um the city was happy that that's where we wind up. And that then gives us a process in 2031 that will be
much fairer and more regional. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> So two questions. One is the number of beach boxes. Is that the beach boxes we've counted or the matter of that's how many they're licensed for? What what
is the meaning of that number? >> So, we counted we just to went out on a a day and had them all counted. So, it just was a count. The the current light lease does not have prescribe have to have them what the number is. It's
purely a it's a combination metrics of demand and certain beaches can accommodate more than other beaches or certain beaches obviously the beach is narrower and so it just doesn't accommodate the number of boxes so it's just
>> and the vendor has made a decision to only put that many boxes on that beach for manh hours and time whatever. >> No, I I I appreciate that. What's the size of the beach box? >> It's on I I pulled it up. I didn't >> Do we have that size? >> It's 48 by 26 wide and 33 high.
>> They have to stay to that standard. >> Oh, >> I would expect that that might be something that we would talk about with Chris to make sure. >> That's a good suggestion because we wouldn't want big boxes. We wouldn't want them to be a different size. That would look >> unsightly. Or we make a double and say,
"Well, it's just still one beach box." >> Exactly. I I don't >> I so and and then my my second question was do is this a sealed bid uh situation? No, >> it's actually an auction. >> There's an auction.
>> It's a live live auction. >> Oh, okay. It's a live auction. >> Mhm. >> Interesting. So, the prices that we are talking about are minimum bids, >> correct? >> In a live auction. And they could go for any whatever the market demands. And and that's that is actually how in
I'll say maybe two two or three rounds ago that's how some of these got a skew was there was competition at one time. >> Sure. For a beach here or beach there and then >> that obviously drove that beach higher
>> and then it never got level set >> afterwards. It just kind of went from there and then they just the city just continued to escalate it. >> Okay. How many biders are there >> for in this in the in the last cycle? I don't think there were any multiple
biders bidding >> just one. >> There was just well I mean the hotel zones I mean there were for all the regular zones there was one bidder >> for the hotel zones the respective hotel was the bidder for that >> sure hotel zone. >> Okay. Yeah. So I mean
>> actually there was actually one of the >> sounds kind of >> it's a live It sounds like it's pretty straightforward, >> but the process was in the past that there were multiple biders, but the last round, you know, was sort of >> that would have been in 2020 in 2020
around there for the start of 21 through 25. So, um maybe at that point things had kind of settled into what people considered to be the norm and >> was also during co so who knew what the beach season was going to be for 2021, right? And also there was during the last cycle one of the hotel zones did
not go to a hotel. It was actually um stagger actually ended up nobody bid on it and so that it rolls to a open up to the regular session and and and that was bid through there. So I I know and then
then my other comment is I noted on Stagger's website I just pulled up just to review and they are saying they have completely sold out of every beach for 2026. >> Yep. >> And which is interesting to me if they haven't even secured the bid for 2026.
>> I think they say that because they open their um they normally open up in January. >> It says December 5th it open sold out for I've tried to I've tried to go in to get one on the day it opens and it's sold out. So it's just way before that. >> Yeah, they just it's every year it's the same thing.
>> No, no, I understand. But I guess that what that tells me is if they're sold out already, >> you would think that that would drive our prices at a higher >> there. He's making he's making an assumption that they will be the respective bidder and and what the not
even knowing what the minimum price would be. you know, he may have to go back to people and say, "Hey, he needs to adjust his price based on what minimum price that the city ends up setting as the minimum potentially." >> Interesting. >> We've had that discussion. >> Yeah. >> With him.
>> It It is an interesting process. Um, you know, one that the way that Steve that Steve Stagger decides to run it is his business. Oh, sure. Okay. Um, I would buy I would build more boxes if I knew that the boxes were selling out, but they choose
not to. Um, they you know, they did lose some boxes during the last storm, so I I don't know whether they're going to replace those or not. Um, I think that from the city's perspective, um, where our the boundary that we want to draw is that the city is running a process that is rational and fair.
>> I agree. >> Okay. Agree. >> And where it goes from there, if we have biders, great. Maybe we didn't get any in 2020. Um, at some point in time, somebody could come in and say, "This is a relatively lucrative business. I'm going to outbid the current incumbent." Right? >> But so far, that hasn't been happening.
It did happen 10 or 15 years ago on parcel A. >> And that's why parcel A is at $3928 per linear foot where the others are 20 to$26. That bit that bidding process. And and the other thing I noted, there's a I
don't I thought I wrote down the parcel. There's a parcel E, for example, the number of boxes they have available wouldn't even cover the the bid for the I mean, if you multiply the their price by the number of boxes, it doesn't even cover the minimum bid.
>> He has made a conscious decision to keep these boxes because they're registered there, which is where people want them, and not add to parceli, for example. And a lot has to do, I think, just with staffing and manpower and not really wanting to take on more, you know,
additional business at this point. The other piece that, you know, at least from my perspective, and I think Paul would concur, the city is not looking to make this look like a money grab by having wildly swinging prices up and down unless the bid or the auction dictates that. Um, and the reason is is
because we look at what the costs are for beach maintenance on the city side and expenses. We know that there will be incremental, you know, um, increases based on the contracts that we just got signed by uh, the unions that manage who
handle that area. Public works being one, it's 3% every year. So, we're not looking to make this appear to be something that we're going after um and putting exorbitant baseline bids in. You know, these people have been having these
>> the hotel parcels and and the other >> Could I could I ask is the is the auction how how do you broadcast the auction? How's that done? And does it go to for instance >> other folks that might have beach boxes up the up the coast?
>> No. in I mean we do we just like all of our bids we put them in the newspaper and publicly advertise in accordance with the law. So >> I just I I you know >> it'll be announced it'll be part of a discussion with council uh and then if the the concept that has been put
together and the pricing and the variables is approved. >> And then the other question I have on on parcel I is it says it has a hundred beach boxes there. That that was a total that's just an estimation looking at there's no that was because parcel I
actually was not bid on this year. I think that was just an estimation >> that we put in there just trying to estimate when we were trying to set when we were trying to initially look at the alle cart type of a system. We were trying to estimate maybe how many boxes could be put there and to kind of figure
out okay what would be that >> it's not there's not a lot of beach there Paul I mean it's not a big beach. That's the I'm shocked that we could put a 100 beach boxes there. >> Well, what they what they do, they have one line of then they bring in another on your back to back. >> Well, I know. But have you walked down there? I have. It's my house is close to
there. So, I'm just saying not a lot of beach there. >> This is just an estimate. This doesn't even exist as a parcel. >> Yeah. So, it's really if by the same metric it's zero, right? The the metric on the others was counted. This one zero. Is >> that the only one that wasn't that's an estimate? >> That Yes. Yes. We we did talk about um
whether we should establish any maximums on each parcel and the the sense was that at this stage it's not necessary to do so that they're not being packed to such a degree that it's either unsafe to be able to walk by or
>> poverty beach work that poverty. >> It's no it's not currently listed as >> No, I know that. But is it is it potential to be listed? >> No. So there's a process that you have to get a caffer permit for something that has not been part of this process. There's also a discussion that has to be had with council as to whether or not
how much they want to balance opening up additional parcels because there's also public outcry at times as to what the visual looks like when there's a lot of this on the beach. >> There would be public outcry there for sure. >> Understood. Um and so there's been you
know at this point we're not expanding beyond the one. >> Yeah. And really partial eye was the poverty beach zone because it it stretched across it really stretched from Wilmington east. Okay. >> Yeah. Kind it >> says Brooklyn.
>> Well, I it's been moved because if you center something over Wilmington, it's not viable because I mean that at at times that beach is barely wide enough to get a truck by, let alone having beach concessions and beach and and
people. So that's why we moved it over to Brooklyn. Uh there is a need there um based on usage. And so that's why we're giving that a try to see if that's a potential, but we did not want to go on the east side of Wilmington and create something down on the I'll say the
traditional reach of Poverty Beach. We didn't we felt that that leave that alone and let it not be commercialized to that extent. Paul, >> yeah. >> Is there anything that uh they're restricted on doing on once they get
these bids or they get them approved? I mean, are they allowed to sell sodas, hot dogs? >> Yeah. So, so the concessions like like a regular concession >> then sodas. Are they allowed to have hot dogs, cotton candy or anything? Is there any >> not a grill >> format? I mean, on the beach, but not on
the beach, but you know. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. Is it written invenue or that? Yeah, there's there's provisions if you read the I mean there's provisions in there like hotel zones have obviously a more a broader aspect to bring food deliver have delivered prepared food out on
there but >> it in writing this is the >> it's in there >> pretty voluminous >> I just want to know >> Yep. Absolutely. And so if I could at this time I have um the other thing that I felt was hard from a management
standpoint in controlling what was being done within the zones because we would always get complaints about the zones was when you look at the prior zone map. It was so ambiguous about where the zone actually was and where the limits were because when you you read some of the
descriptions, it was like, oh, from this street to that street. And then, as you can tell, some of the streets are not perpendicular with the actual beach. So, you could have some interpretive decisions about, well, is it on this angle of the beach or that angle of the
beach. So, it it became difficult. So what I did was um graphically showed each zone with aerial photography, defined the actual limits and public works will actually go out at the beginning of the season, put posts up
down on the beach, mark the dune fence with that so that code enforcement, beach patrol, um you know, and and somebody can go out there and even somebody from the public because I'm also requiring that these maps be posted did at each concession stand. So that
both the people that operate the concessions because a lot of times the people operating the concessions are that high school person that's just out there setting up umbrellas and beaches, chairs and and they have no concept of what and where they're
supposed to be. So if we delineate those locations, we have maps for them to look at, for the public to come out to look at, our enforcement to come out and look at it, then we can establish where everybody should be, and it and and that really does create a level set of that.
So I'll just pass this around just so you can kind of see how I'm presenting the maps. One of the other things that I did notice on the beach boxes was that there are boxes on the hotel beaches and they're not the hotels. So, um, that
will not be permitted in the future. Correct. Because they're not paying for those parcels. >> I'll have to reook. I mean, >> well, 100 boxes. It's they're not from the hotels, >> but I think hotels are allowed to have boxes. >> They are, but they're not the hotels boxes. their state.
>> Well, but but if they're if they I think there's nothing there's no provisions in there necessarily for them that they can sub lease their their box that that ability. So, we don't have that written in there. So, it's hard to, you know,
take away an ability, you know, just because somebody else is doing it for them. >> Would your a would your office then require that a copy of that agreement be available to your office to know that it's been that there's a financial arrangement? sub lease.
>> I don't know if I need that. I don't know if I need that, but that's something to talk to CGS, but that's >> I mean, if if the lease allows for it >> and they're there. >> Well, the reason that I would >> own boxes, >> no, >> there's one that they do. Not everyone, but
>> not everyone. >> 99%. And don't forget there's also three beaches that are not part of the concession beaches that are truly the the the property owner has when they when they gave the easement for the city
to have the beach easement, they maintain their underlying ability to operate their concession on their pro what was or still is their property. So there's three properties that have that ability to not have to pay the city for
the use of the beach area, but they still have to comply with our >> they own the parcel in other words. >> So that's that property that's for sale for a million dollars worth of the beach. >> Well, that is one of them, but not nobody's been operating on that beach. >> Interesting. Anyway, >> so I had raised in the meeting I had
raised concerns about the when with the initial proposal some of the some of the regular properties were increasing significantly, some of them were decreasing and I I had concern that um a bidder could decide to not bid on a
parcel that is going up in price and focus instead on the parcels that are going down in price. Um, but that the parcels there there there generally are not any adjoining regular parcels where they could say, "Okay, I'm just going to shift those boxes 10 feet to the left,
right, >> and be on a different parcel. I'm going to leave the next parcel open." But if they can purchase >> breach rights on from the hotels at a price that's lower than the city, then the hotels are in competition with the
city. >> Sure. and we could wind up losing revenue on it. So, um I it will be interesting to see how this does evolve >> being a five-year agreement. >> I thought I thought your proposal was to not lower any of the prices. the other numbered
total took care of that. But at the same time, >> if you can generate as much revenue and have less e expense as a business by by not bidding on parcels that you've had in the past, it can mean, you know, 10 or 20 or $30,000 of lost revenue for the
city. >> Um, but that's not our proposal. That's not >> that is the proposal is that these all these parcels will be up for bid. Um I but I would encourage the city to be where a as I looked at the west end of town
last summer or the summer before I noticed that there were boxes on parcels that were not under agreement >> and and and with these maps and with us delineating out on there
>> and being able to truly identify what parcels are what parcels we'll be able to better manage. manage that issue >> as well as the issue though is what is what I'm the point that I'm making is with or without permission placing boxes
on hotel property is to this is counter to the city's revenue raising um efforts >> and no considerate I mean again I think it's the methodology certainly appears
to be sound um I I was just curious as to whether any consideration was given to some fee. When I compare again zone A to zone B, for example, and see, there's twice as many boxes on zone A as as there are on zone B, and we're proposing
to charge only slightly more. You know, one of them one of them goes down and one of them goes up. Um, did we give any consideration to a a fee per box or per unit of something? >> So, that was that was really how we were
setting it up. But as as I had further discussions and thought, >> I didn't want to if I charge per box, I didn't want to discourage the placement of boxes because in my opinion, every
box on the beach is one less car possibly that is driving and trying to find parking up in there. So, you know, boxes really res I think in some respect represent less parking demand. and sure >> along the beachfront. So that's what
really I think shifted my discussion with our group about hey let's let's maybe not move look at it and kind of analyze it and maybe after we've level set let's recircle and back and then say okay maybe beaches that are continually
have more boxes maybe we increase them a little bit on their price per learning your foot but not tie it directly to a number of boxes and and maybe that's what we can look at but I think I think the important thing that is what Martin's calculation went through is a way to level set everybody and let's get
back to a level position before we start >> yep >> legislating >> picking and choosing and doing this allocart discussion >> necessarily know that it prevents parking because I don't know that you have the same people that are trying to park that would also have a beach box
but um neither here nor there it's much simpler to administer this way um obviously we would have had to reduce the the bid cost if there's a all the cart fee on top of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I I understand. I just It's a curiosity for me when I think about the business model.
>> It is all over the map. >> As I went through the >> zone by zone cab that that's the concessionire's doing. >> No, no, I understand. >> It's up to them to drive the the business. >> I know at least two people have the boxes so they don't have to
park. They ride they get everything on the box and they ride their bikes and you know so it really helps parking in the beach area. >> And I think um Ron to be honest this was not for us to get into the business of dictating to them what they were doing. We actually started out going down that
road um and thinking in all and then as we got further into this and being able to manage it too >> um you don't want having someone to have to go out there every day and count. >> Yeah. And so it became a matter of we can clearly know where you're supposed to be by placing markers um and making
sure that everyone's clear on their parameters. Getting into how much you're putting on each of those spots then just becomes an operational issue and you know it just it didn't after a while it just didn't make sense. So we actually started going down that road and then just backed off of that as a trend.
>> But we just but we still wanted to present that data just because we had the data and just kind of keep an eye on that. Again, I think it it's important to keep in mind, I think, the objective. So, if our objective is to be fair. Yes. >> And our objective is to attract >> more boxes because we think that that'll
help with parking, those should drive our shoulder, too, right? >> Yeah. Well, I I think that >> I just want to relay a story. It this kind of confuses things a little bit, but it has perplexed me for many years.
I had a beach box for at least a decade, maybe maybe longer. Um, I made a mistake one year and I didn't pay by the December 5th date or whatever. And of course, the beach box was gone. >> Your so
>> um Yeah, so I I talked to Steve and I said, "Steve, I've been a customer forever. Can't you put a box there? You know, I just one more box on the end, you know?" and he said, "The city won't let me."
Okay. So, uh, I don't think so. But I'll tell you, and and the part of the story is is that there were a lot fewer boxes on that beach than when I first started. In fact, I bet you it was half of what it used to be. So, there's some other
dynamic going on. Maybe it's pricing. Uh, I don't think so. I mean, I don't think he was playing any games. Um but it was plain and simply um a mystery to me as to why there wouldn't be a lot more boxes. So is the city really
dictating >> No, when they lose a box, they don't rebuild it. >> Call it deflecting. >> Yeah. >> And I would say to you, you don't know what conversations he may have had with someone in a prior administration, Mike. you know, we could all, you know, number one and number two. We can be clear when
the particularly on the boxes that there's no, you know, perhaps restriction as long as it's reasonable, like you don't want boxes stacked on top of each other or obstructing, you know, the ability for people to walk or be able to, you know, access their box,
etc. My understanding has always been it's been the choice of the business owner and I and I have been involved with this discussion on the beach concession contracts for my entire time on council. I've never heard uh Mr. Gillan Schwarz say anything to that
effect and we haven't gone into this with that sort of being set as a parameter. >> Similarly, Mike, I would like to have a box and fortunately I'm a relatively spry 67. By the time I'm Russ's age, I'm not sure that I'm >> Well, well, if you if you
>> But and and you know, to my point, my point is in fact, I think beach boxes benefit the city. I really do. Absolutely. >> And and to me, it's kind of like I would love to be able to do something to
encourage maximizing the number of boxes on the beach. So the only thing I can think of is if there was some way and I'm not sure and I'll look to poll as the engineer is to say parcel I'll make one up K. If you're on parcel K you know
whoever bids on it we've analyzed and you can put up to >> you know some reasonable number if they only have 50 boxes out there we might be able to suggest based on some analysis or you can put 75. I don't think we can dictate the 75 because he that may be a
decision by the vendor to say, >> you know, no, I don't want to buy more boxes. I don't have the manpower to, you know, handle whatever it might be. But perhaps we can look at it and I'm not sure, Paul, if that seems reasonable. Well, I think once we level set, we could do that in the in the future and
say, "Okay, if if that area could handle 100, there's only 65 there now." And we go to that alleart thing. We charge them for the hundred and built that into showing, hey, that that's the that's, you know, your per linear foot price.
we're accounting for x number of boxes and that's what the price is, you know, and not and not do it by how many boxes you have, but we prescribe, okay, this zone can can handle x number of boxes and this is how we're determining and showing and showing.
>> So, you're suggesting that we're not doing it this I'm sorry. I just >> No, not this. I I'm just saying that that could be something we could look at for the future, >> but not now. >> But not now. I mean, the other option is >> if if if if the if we really analyze it and we really look at, hey, we're not getting the number of boxes out there
that we think we could and we think there's such a benefit to the city, there are other municipalities that do the beach boxes themselves. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, but >> either that >> if the city gets into the beach box business, that is a another level of
manpower and effort that would have to be taken on. I'm not sure, you know, sure we want to get into that, but we may have to say, "Hey, we think we, you know, this block, we want to get some more." >> I think we >> boxes
I spoke over you before what you >> That's right. Well, I just want to give you a little history. Back when I was a lifeguard in the early 60s, um I was on Stagger's Beach and he had the bathous across the other side of Beach Drive. And uh so to get a box, you would have a
tent and then he would put the box behind the tent. That's how it started. >> That's what we had. >> Before that, I don't remember any boxes just being a box out in the open. >> They were by the cabanas. They were with the cabana tent >> and you paid I don't know. I mean, the family had the tent and I don't know if
you just paid $100 more or whatever it was, but that's how I remember it starting and all of a sudden rose to box. >> Anything else from this side of the room at all? Anything you want to add? >> That's the way it was. >> Oh, thank you. Did parcel I come into existence in 2020? Was that the first
time? >> No. >> Oh, it was there before. >> Well, it does now. >> Well, >> it it has nobody has bid on it the last couple cycles. >> Okay. >> What I meant was it was in operation. >> That's 60 years. >> Got it. >> So, the number that's here is what the fee would have been had somebody leased
it in 2021. That was if you're talking about >> we're sort of re resetting it back to what it was set at in 2020 to see if this time we get a bidder. >> Mr. Spry chairperson parcel I it makes more sense because it's not east. It's west of Brooklyn
Avenue. >> Yes. The mass it's west. >> So it's west. So just so you know. >> Oh okay. So maybe >> Oh. Oh. Okay. That does make >> So the body's the body's fine but the mind >> Okay. >> I'm sorry. I'm I can't know that there's We are going to we are going to need to
separate the two of you. >> Carol, did did you have anything that you wanted to >> No, I think that the um pricing is when you look at it like some people are really low and some people are really high. So, bringing it into par and then
um I also agree that you know perhaps there should be more beach boxes. It seems like some people are maybe being a little stubborn about it and if you want to control the beach then give the people what they want. So, my suggestion is let's let this bid process unfold.
Let's let the the the the auction occur. We'll see how things turn out, if there were any alternate biders or not. Um, and then maybe you and I can have a conversation with Steve and pick his mind a little bit. I you know it's just a simple question to
>> as to Steve why don't you put more boxes in >> I mean some of it some I had that discussion with it it's his manpower and how he runs his business and you know he's got a certain crew and he knows I mean what he can put out and put back in
and and and just you that's that's what he wants to manage now but it he also see what he did to me that year was He converted a number of boxes. Yeah, I don't know. >> It wasn't personal. I understand. It was
my fault. But no, what uh he was doing is he was renting. He kept several boxes to rent by the week. >> Sure. >> So, um >> where he gets higher fees. >> Yeah. >> Well, yeah, it's it's 150 a week or 665, >> but it's still good for the city. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's still
>> Look, we can encourage, but I don't know necessarily whether or not we want to >> Yeah, let's let's have a conversation. >> I just I think it be worth >> Well, when's the auction date? >> He can. It's his business. He can run it however he wants to. Um, but it gives us a better understanding because there is
revenue associated with it for for the city potentially. >> Um, we're we're looking to have the auction in early to mid January such that we can have the results back before the second meeting in January. So, we're looking to be able to have that in front of council to award at at council's
second meeting in January. >> When you had the auction last year, how many biders did you have? >> No, it's every five years. >> Oh, it was every five years. >> Yeah, this is a five this is a five-year bid. >> Paul, would it be advantageous to stake out these uh delineated areas that you
have on your map like just with a 4x4 painted? >> I will I for the for the start of the season. That's what I said that we're going to do that these will have posts and >> yes that that >> designations on them. You know >> it's easier zone A it's easier for the enforcement people or even the the
measures >> and and each concession stand will have to have this map posted so that if you're walking by you can see oh this is the concession for zone >> B and this is the limits of zone B. >> Put post out there. Yeah, I'm going to
put post out because that's the only way to really to know. >> Yeah. For everybody. >> Everybody. >> So, um I want to really express my appreciation to Paul for being open-minded about considering a different process. I think it's a very
big step forward over the course of the next five years >> and uh maybe there's another step that follows in five years. Um but at the very least getting to a stage where now there's no longer any mystery about how the parals are priced um I I think is is
is a a credit to the city to be will being willing to entertain. >> Well, I can only be fortunate and hopeful that I'm here in when you we revisit this issue in five years. So thank >> well and having been involved in a number of these kind of contracts as well as shared services agreements and
otherwise some of the history on how contracts and how some of these prices were set is not clear. Um there's nothing defined and there's uh certainly it doesn't appear to be objective in some cases. So that was the goal was to try and get us to a point where we could
all understand it if you had to go back um 5 years from now and look to what it was to understand why it was done this way and the logic associated and be able to describe it to someone else you might be you know negotiating with at that point in time. Uh it's not been the
case. Um and so you know this is another one to check off the list of trying to drive it and be transparent. So, >> so our next step is that I will provide Aaron with a letter um saying that MTRA endorses the the fee schedule that we've put together um so that it can be posted
for the agenda on Monday. Any other questions or comments? Okay, great. Thank you for your input everyone. That was a great discussion. Our next topic is I wanted to check in with everyone on meeting frequency and
the schedule. we have been doing um first second Thursday of the month. Uh three o'clock is is sort of our regular. We did move to every other month um last year and I think initially
I wasn't a fan because I I think that it stretches out the timelines on some of the projects a little bit. But having lived with it for a while, um I could I could be convinced either way. Um I
think that um right now the the workload that we are taking on um I I think that the committee in its current construct I'm trying to have there not be 25 initiatives that we're working on >> at any at any given point in time. Um,
so I feel a little bit more comfortable, but I did want to um get the get the feedback from the members about whether we felt as if we should go back to monthly or continue to do the every other month. >> So, personally, I have a a winter challenge in that I'm not usually here
January, February, and March. Uh, so I I can certainly fly back for probably one of those. I'm probably not interested in flying back for three of those. uh uh doing that. >> Yeah, I'm I'm sort of in Well, January is fine, but but we're definitely not
here the month of February, >> and I'm not going to fly back. >> Any other thoughts on the frequency? >> I like the frequency just because I've got alternate meetings that are going on. So, you know, um I know Mike has a meeting on Thursdays, too. um zoning board once a month. So,
>> but that's Yeah, I like every other month. It's easier for me to actually make it. >> Okay, Sarah. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um so, the other every other month would unfortunately be February. Um we'll we'll miss you, but um
>> miss me too. >> Okay. Um but I would ask that the other members please make every effort to attend February. We don't want to wind up not having >> Sure. So February is usually a tough month for the city anyway. That's one of >> Yeah, I it wouldn't be January because I don't even know that we'll be confirmed
by as a committee by uh by the second Thursday in January. >> So you're saying February 12th would be the >> would be the second Thursday of February. Now, I I would, you know, we don't have the ability to have you call in, which is unfortunate because I mean,
other than to maybe listen and offer a comment, but I I just want to put that out there that I you know, I know that sometimes people would like to do that. So, your participation could be, you know, >> I called in on cell phon >> saying is it it's not allowed or >> No, no, no, Ron. We don't have the the
sort of the infrastructure facility. >> We just don't have Zoom or one of those. >> Yeah, we don't have an online. It's just a cell phone. Yeah, exactly. Um, and then it would be and Martin, I'm sorry to go out of turn. >> Can't we just like >> we could have Zoom right now. >> Well, so I will >> but it doesn't reflect to the public,
can't >> that's where the problem comes in. As somebody that does listen to every city meeting, >> um, I will tell you that when people get off mic >> or when people are on a phone and you're trying to hear the person that's talking on the phone somewhere near a
microphone, it's very frustrating. And we do have a responsibility to the public to be able to follow the goings on of our meeting. >> Right? >> So it it it's you know just to let you know it's not that we couldn't have you call in but the challenge is we can't
use Zoom because it doesn't interface one and two your participation would be one-sided in that sense. So >> but in some fairness marine the cell phones aren't great for that either. >> They're not >> but they're loud >> and on Well, to to Ron's point, if if
you had a Zoom, I mean, it could simply be that we primarily are listening, but that way at least it's a lot easier. >> No. And you my that is my my suggestion. You could call in for it on your cell phone. >> I don't have a problem with calling on the cell and arranging with another
committee member to call their cell. Okay. And then have them make sure that the phone is within proximity of a microphone at the time of the call. Okay. I've done that for you. It might for me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We've uh actually lay this thing
down to a phone is rather effective. >> Is that still 3:00? >> So the other the other topic was the time. Okay. Um I'd like to m we cannot have it later than 3:00 because Erin would like to make sure that there's a city employee that can initiate the uh
the video. >> Um so it has to be no later than three. Um I know that some of you struggled with the one o'clocks. I I'd like to I I feel fairly strongly that we should stay with the three o'clock. Um >> if if it were every month, maybe I'd
feel differently about it, but um my suggestion, unless I hear a strong objection, would be every other month at 3:00. >> Including the summer. >> Including the summer. >> Okay. >> It's early enough that um >> I'll just play you. >> I didn't I found the one o'clocks even as a member to be in the middle of the
day. >> They definitely are. >> And it three o'clock is a little bit middleish, but one o'clock is a really has to do with the city staff too. So they have to be present in the building and they don't >> you might want to just Martin just a another recommendation is you may want to have because there is is everybody
not everybody's here right we have missing one >> job >> two >> job and yeah >> you may want to just get a note out just to confirm who can or who can't make it you're not quite sure yet are either right >> I'm not >> but I will try to work we we're we have
a trip scheduled every month we have a trip planned every month it's not scheduled And I always try to schedule around certain meetings. So >> I think we can work it out. >> Okay. >> All right. So I will I'll put that schedule together because Aaron is
asking for it. I'll circulate it to the members. Um if you have a particular conflict, okay, if you have multiple conflicts, I'd like to hear about it because I do really value everyone being here and and sharing, you know, their viewpoints. >> She needs that sooner rather than later.
Reorg is packet. Okay. All right. I just >> She'll have it tomorrow. Okay. >> Um that brings us to the um the round table where we open the floor up to anything that's on people's minds. >> I always have something on my mind. >> Excellent. I
>> I Paul I would encourage the city if you could encourage them to buy that property on the beachfront for a million dollars. We have surplus and I think it would be the best buy the city ever bought. >> We are trying. Go ahead. We we are
actively engaged in the process. >> We are actively engaged in trying to do so. But >> the first the first step in buying a piece of property is to get it appraised >> uh because of the unique character and nature of that property. I should have the appraisal here
>> probably this week or next week. And we have actually I think council did a you know we I think we have funds appropriated based on what I anticipate the appraisal coming back in at um to do
that which may be different than what the for sale price is now. >> I'm curious to hear your thoughts about why would it be a good purchase. Oh, I >> well if it's the property I'm thinking of you or me or or Paul >> I mean it's conjun right next to our own
properties and uh >> it's right in the center of town and >> this knows what we're going to do in the future. the city should >> they don't they don't make that properties available every year you know and you know it's funny because at one time we're trying to get bathrooms a
couple years before you came board and I actually went to Bob fight and tried to get him to sell us a 50 ft of it to build a bathroom there and he and he that time he was had a his friend um
um Mrs. stagger and she said, "No, no, no. He's not selling that because his grandson or my grandson wants it." Okay. But anyhow, it's a great property. It's It's a location. You can't beat it. You just can't do anything with it. >> You just can't do anything with it.
>> Well, we can It's a It's a public beach, and that's why the city should own >> the public beach. >> Where is it located? >> The It's the parcel where Mermaid Restaurant is from Gurnie. It's the next block. So, it's essentially the block of the beach from
>> that's west of Gurnie >> between the two arcades. in build a fishing pier. So that's >> and I mean we have obviously the city has perpetual easements across there are numerous properties that are still
privately owned but the city has a perpetual easement to utilize maintain all of those parcels as a public beach. So, you know, the and then that's how those three parcels are out there that
have the ability to have a concession on there without and this is one of them to have a concession without going through and paying a license fee is because that was the trade-off that the city did with them was we got the perpetual easement, they were able to maintain the ability
to have a concession on that parcel. So, that's >> But there's no concession on this parcel now. Well, that's only because the property owner doesn't choose to have one, but he could if he had chose to. >> Sure, you could.
>> Sure. >> Why not? >> Maybe if you buy it, we'll have >> I can add one. >> So, Martin, I was talking to Paul previously. You might want to stay there, Paul. >> Oh, no.
about uh I was complimenting him on the fact that uh he's been updating on more regular basis the uh construction projects on the website which is very helpful for those of us who are vacants in particular. Uh but uh in some seriousness uh we talked a little bit
about the fact that I was I was surprised when you said that the water uh improvements uh construction uh we would be able to move forward. I we had always understood. So I wondered whether or not
the funds necessary are there. You had said you might propose some alternatives or whatever to make sure we had the funds. >> Well, so the del plant is up there. That's actually why I need the the building or the room tonight is because there's a public hearing tonight on the
uh for the desalinization plant as part of some of our permitting process or not or actually the procurement process for the uh I bank to get the principal forgiveness to help fund the project. Um yeah, we're looking to uh start phase 1A next year, which would be the
construction of the building and iron uh treatment removal within the building. um we have about 70% of that funds uh for that phase of the project through principal forgiveness or grants from the the
Department of Interior. Um, and we are we've we've got some modeling software that will help do some financial modeling of long-term futures of uh looking at growth in the water plant as far as revenue and costs and and projecting and
and determining truly what what are the costs that we would have to do to incur to to um ultimately construct the plant based on the current funding we have. So, um, after we get through this hearing, we get our final grant in the spring, I'll
be making some presentations to council and some recommendations on, uh, future costs uh, increase to the uh, water uh, bill for both um, city residents for your water bills as well as for our bulk
users to help fund the diesel plant. Um, and I I'm I'm feeling that it's not going to be as draconian of a impact to um the water bills or the um bulk water users bills
for our other communities that that purchase water from us. I think it I think it's something that's manageable and uh will help provide a a good, stable, clean, dependable water source moving into the future for the city >> which is critical from a safety from a
health from every aspect of it. So I didn't know if the reason I brought it up in part was you know did you need help at all from MTRA >> as as we get close to finalizing that model? Obviously I was hoping to have possibly rolled it out this fall, but
with a transition with a new CFO and and getting her transitioned into really getting up to speed, I just couldn't throw a curveball at her. So, I'm hoping that she's getting acclimated and and really
on board. She's actually processing the budget. You know, actually the the state just released the budget documents and templates that we can use. So, she's already kind of working on that. Let me get that introduced to council and um as far as the budget and get the budget
process moving. And I would anticipate right after we get the budget rolling, I'll start having discussions with council and and obviously I would anticipate that council will probably pass this back to potentially MTRA to help. >> There's also a consultant that we've
been working with who have been instrumental in securing some of these these grants, extremely knowledgeable in the process. uh linked in with the right people. Um and so they've been very helpful on the just the preliminary um financials and
we've gotten >> as you know uh you know with the federal dollars drying up all over the place uh you know there's so many projects that you you worry about right the seaw wall extension the del plant the >> uh beach
replacement you know all this stuff that's out there and >> and uh you know obviously we can't fund that all through the city of Kate May, but maybe there's pieces that >> Well, I think the financial modeling has always been front and foremost and
obviously as a resident taxpayers's mind, you know, how is this going to happen? Um, and we've, you know, there have been steps taken and uh new phase refased the project by bringing the building online and then the iron
removal process coming to the front end of it. So there, you know, there's been some internal discussions already about we need to move this forward and it just may look and feel a little different than originally planned. Um but with Paul's help and certainly with uh CMA
they you know it's been a process where you know they just did a presentation at the last council meeting to update us and also talk about this that this is a good strategy you know to be able to sort of >> my recommendation to for the committee and and Martin certainly for this chair
>> that although our charge is look at revenue sources and other kinds of things I think health and safety should >> definitely be part of our mission and more >> and uh when you think about water, when you think about beach safety, when you
think about, you know, keeping ocean out of our properties and other kinds of things, I mean, to me, those are critical components that we need to take into consideration at our committee level. >> And I'd really want to I I really have to say thank you to, you know, our federal congressional team has been, you
know, bipartisan. you know, Senator Kim and Booker and Congressman Van Drew have worked really hard with us. We've also really been doing a lot of outreach with uh through the Coast Guard and you know I think you know with with them talking with their leadership in in DC to you
know it's unfortunate that the coast unlike the department of defense for the other branches of the military the with the coast guard being under homeland security they don't have the same funding mechanisms and and ability to work with municipalities as I'll say the
bases within the other uh branches of the military but the coast Guard has been working with a lot and I think they've been working with their federal partners to say hey let's and that's what I think you know Congressman Van Drew has been really helpful in getting
us you know we got the word authorization um you know for $40 million uh for the project um which was which was huge to get it that is as an authorization uh we've gotten 500,000 earmarked this year
um as an appropriation under of the water bill. We're hoping to get 9.5 to$10.5 million in next year's federal budget, which is a huge number. Um, but I think it, you know, when you look at what the
what Congress and the president has done to to fund, there's going to be a$4 to500 million investment at the Coast Guard base over in this current fiscal budget. you know, that that level of um
investment in especially in the Coast Guard is unheard of. >> You know, that that's going to be the single largest investment for a single base ever. >> And that's all coming here. You know, that's 4 to500 million of construction activity happening on the base over the
next several years. Um, so they they realize that they need a clean, efficient, reliable water source and we're we're for them. So, um, I think it all ties together. >> Does that 10 whatever the number is, $10
million does that need to be spent in a particular year or that's granted and then we >> it's appropriated and and then it'll be spent. I mean, it'll be spent really quick because the if you look at and it's in the project report that we put online, uh, phase 1 A is obviously the
construction of the building and iron removal, which gives us just over about a million uh gallons a day of of water treatment. So, that's a huge amount of water treatment just by itself. Um, so we build that building um start that
next year. By the time we have that building done and ready, the obviously I'm I'm hoping that the federal government and the budget process goes a little smoother than this year and we get that that say 9 and a half million appropriated and then then
that gets released in the spring of 2027 about when the building is being completed. So that then they're they're essentially that phase is purchasing the um reverse osmosis part of the treatment
plant and then they're funding essentially the equipment that's going to be plopped into our building. You plumb the systems together and then we'll have you know by maybe 2028 a >> Paul. Do you have any idea how many
wells they're going to have to to drill to? >> Nothing. Are we're we'll be utilizing our existing wells. >> It's all utilizing our existing wells. >> Want to make sure we leave time if there are any other any other ideas. But I
will say Russ that you know when I >> when I challenged myself to decide why is it that I'm volunteering my time it was to better the safety of the city for future use and also fairness. Those are very
important to me. Um it's the second time that we've discussed having a mission statement. I think that that's something that >> we should work on in 2026 to articulate what it is that we're going to do. >> Yeah. that that was that was kind of my proposal here would be that we allocate
some time and I I don't I don't pretend to know what the rules are in terms of public versus sit in a room and and batting about brainstorming some vision or whatever but I feel like we need to allocate a session some time to uh to
coales around what is the vision of our uh of our activity here in whatever form that's appropriate. Um and then um and that should be what we use to determine uh >> so we're allowed to have three members
meet without it being a meeting. >> Okay. >> Okay. So that can happen anytime if we did want to have a special meeting to brainstorm the mission. Um the HPC did that but they had to sunshine those meetings. >> And I again I don't think we have anything to hide. I'm just I um just I
just and I think for if we're going to coales around a vision then it needs to include everybody. >> Can I just one comment? There is currently a mission statement that was um put together when this committee was uh composed by the the council and the mayor.
>> We will be doing a reorg. So if you're talking about doing it, that would be the time for this kind of a statement because if it's altered, you know, you know, I'm not saying that it can't be, but just to make sure that it's won't have anything before the reorg. This is >> and I'm I'm looking for more than a
statement, but rather a >> what I'm going to do is I'm going to circulate a list of the 2026 projects to each member and ask for people to volunteer to serve on subcommittees, if you will, on different topics so that
then we can have the discussions, but it will already have been thought through at the at these by monthly by every other month meetings. Yep. >> Okay. Um, so I do think that that's one of them. Okay. >> And um there's there's a there's a list of them so that we continue to move
forward on each of the projects that we um are personally committed to trying to advance. >> Okay. >> Okay. And the mission statement will be one of them. >> Yeah. Perfect. Thank you. >> Any other thoughts? >> Okay. Um I I did have one thought on the
other day. I I do tend to when I'm either running or doing yard work, I think of things and that's um just kind of the way that that idea has come to me. Um I've made the statement to um Paul and to Moren recently. Um
having read a book on parking um it enlightened me to know that every densely populated area in the country has a parking problem. It Cape May is not in any way unique. Every American wants to park where they want, when they
want, for free. >> Okay. Sure. >> And um while we like to talk about parking as a problem, I'm not suggesting that it isn't a problem for the city. I don't think it's the number one problem. I think the number one problem is
long-term housing. >> I not affordable. Okay. Long-term housing. >> That's a differentable long-term housing. >> Well, so the affordable housing is has a different definition. >> Well, I'm sorry. long-term housing that people can employees can pay for. How's that? >> But >> fair enough.
>> That's a different >> So, um, if we don't take steps and I think that's another project and Mike, you suggested that there be discussions about long-term planning. Okay. >> Um, if we don't have a long-term plan to
add long-term housing of a variety of things, okay, um, the city will gradually fall apart, >> declined. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um because we we we need to have younger people living in town. We need to have younger people that have
children in the schools. We need to have younger people serving on this committee on all the committees. >> So for my own edification, maybe I don't understand the difference between affordable and housing that people can pay for. >> There is Mount Laurel is affordable housing. Mount Laurel project. Okay.
There are spec when we build affordable housing in Cape May, >> it goes out to bid economically and 600 people bid on it. One gets it and we have no control over who gets it. >> Okay. >> So, it's not affordable housing, it's what they can afford. How's that? >> So, um >> No, no, I understand. So, the specific
connotation you're saying is government >> affordable housing is defined by your income. No, I'm explaining for Ron. It's defined by you an application process. You have to qualify based on your income, credit score, any of your outstanding debts, number of members in
your family. It is a very um cumbersome process um and generally is, you know, very difficult and challenging. >> So, it's a specific designation. >> Yeah. I mean, you can't make more than maybe $12,000 a year. >> Okay. >> And have a credit score of 620. That that's your first hurdle in the
door. Yeah. So, what we're talking about is places that people can live that don't necessarily own property. Sure. Okay. That are within the budgets of typical households. How's that? >> No, no, that's fine. >> Um, but also um you know, there's a lot of conversation about the the housing
over the over the mall, whether that is or isn't going to happen. That's a whole different discussion. >> But, um, to there's two ways that we can approach this. One would be market forces will dictate how much people are willing to spend. If people if people are willing to pay $4,000 a month, then they get $4,000 a month. If they're not,
they're going to get 3,000 or 2,000 or 1,500. But the second thing is the the the quality of life. Going back to some of what Mike was having to say last meeting about businesses that can't get the work that they need to be able to run them, that starts to diminish the
quality of a visit to Cape May. So, you know, I I was thinking about whether there isn't a role that MTRA can play in potentially finding funding for incentives to build long-term rentals and incentives to potentially subsidize
the rents so that we can do more for the people that want to live in Cape May. I mean, those these are pie in the sky thoughts that are that that are right. >> I think they're good thoughts. I just I I would also challenge I I mean I think there's a whole opportunity to say even if it's not in Cape May if we were to
work on readily available transportation for some much less cost land to go build some things and transport people into the city and that's probably >> that's probably anti- something or other. >> No, it's not anti- anything. It's a it's an idea that I've talked about many times with with with people that I know
here in town. But this is this is different. This is we need we need viable energetic people that live on Cape Island that that that live here and care about their community. And that's what causes a community to continue to be vital.
>> I'm with you, >> Ron. >> Yeah. I just I think that's the opport I mean the land here is worth a lot of money on the market and so it's very difficult There's no land left in Cape May Cape, but I have an idea that we should go
partners with lower township or West Kate May. They have plenty of land and build it there. >> That's what I was saying. >> You can't build in Kate May. >> Yeah. Manager even manager and chef when we like 65% of the applicants were
immediately eliminated because they cannot afford to live here. >> Yeah. So, you know, and and and going elsewhere that's we fortunately found two people that already lived uh near what town bank or wherever the heck they are. Yeah. >> Yeah. But so I'm not sure it has to be
on the island that works at Cooper can't can't find a place to live. >> So that's the only thing I would challenge uh Martin is is that you have to have it on Cape Island. I I agree that would be ideal, but I think if it's within a reasonable distance of Cape May, I think that's
>> I'm not talking about people that work in necessarily in Cape May businesses. I'm talking about people that live that have become a part of the community that care about about the future of Cape May, >> but they have to have jobs. >> So they may they may work off island, they could work at Coopers, they could
work at Lower Cape May Regional, they could work anywhere. Okay. So, this it's I'm introducing the topic of it was it was mentioned at a council meeting. Does the city plan to subsidize the housing over the mall? >> Okay. And it got me thinking about of
course not. That's not that we're not in that business. Why not? Maybe we should be maybe we should be providing incentives to to provide housing for seasonal workers, for example. And that's not what would what would be built over the mall. So, I
I I'm only introducing it as being something that I want to start to put it into the into the the mindset of the committee, not at any time in the in the near-term future, but I started to think about is it worthwhile for MTRA to have a long-term role in helping to provide
financial incentives or support for addressing what I know Moren and I have talked about it separately. We consider that to be the number one problem in Cape May. It's not parking. So I think a way to summarize what you're saying is that you're not looking for housing for
people to work in Kate May. You're looking to populate the city with people that live in Kate. >> It is both. >> Yeah. But the but the main goal is to continue the community of Kate May city. It's not it's less about staffing. It's
more about people living here and keeping the community >> and that sense of community. That's exactly right. Yes. >> One thing is that the uh League of Municipalities there was a couple speakers. is they were talking about accessory dwelling units. >> Okay. >> And they were saying that there's sorry a bill that already passed through the Senate that they said is coming down the
pipeline. They're still adjusting it, but where I'm curious how it would affect zoning. They said it would override any ordinances you have where if you're a single family property, you can have an accessory dwelling unit on your property. >> Yeah. I'm confused because I know that there have been planning board
discussions around the fact that there are incentives in place for >> right >> um accessory dwellings. I have no idea what those are or what what we're doing with them. I'm just, you know, in in the in the in the round table portion of this. It's something that I I think I
wanted to start get these minds that we all have thinking about is there something long-term that a role that MTRA could play in trying to do something that's a little bit out of the box. Uh we are up against our hard stop.
>> I'll make a motion. Okay. >> Second. >> All in favor?