right here. >> Okay, it's uh 3 o'clock on February 12th and we are going to begin um this month's MTRA meeting. Uh we'll start with the pledge of allegiance. >> Ice
to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Um, our first order of business on the
agenda is that we are required by ordinance to do a reorganization. Um, I've been on the committee for three and a half years now and we've never done one before. So, um, we will we will go according to H oily or Robert's rules or whichever
one we uh we need to do. Uh, I'd like to request nominations for chairperson. >> I'll nominate Martin. >> I'll second that. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> Thank you. And um then we'll move right into the
city council liaison update. >> Good afternoon. So, um I don't have much to report. We are in the middle of budget season. The manager will do the um intro, you know, sort of his manager's presentation on the budget at
the upcoming meeting on Tuesday. Um then the introduction of the budget for the public will be is scheduled tenatively for March 17th and then adoption of the budget would be April 21st. So that is
sort of how things are lining up right now. There will be a presentation included in Tuesday's packet for um capital um for uh the budget this year and I don't have any other updates Martin and I don't know if any anyone
has any questions for me. >> Did you receive a response from Aaron on the mer on the merkantile license? >> Yes, I'm sorry I did. Okay. Um, so I I asked um Aaron at Martin's request to sort of understand what happens if someone applies for a 2026
Merkantile license and that we have we validated that they did not apply in 2025 but rented their property. and she said that they would be required to pay for the 2025 mercantile license along with any
compounded fees associated with that. Um, and that that would be the process. >> That's great news. Yeah. I had I had asked because we talked the last meeting about the fact that several homes, several renters got caught in the net, right? And but those were only the
Verbbo and the um the transient rental properties. Um, so those individ some of those individuals stepped forward and said, "Okay, let me go get my 2025 license retroactively. Others it was either return to sender, no response." And so therefore, if you
just buffalo the city, you shouldn't be able to not have to pay your 2025 fee. So it sounds like we're aligned on that. Um, I also did take the opportunity to go back and look at Sarah's awesome work from last year on the issue where she had found that there were 180
non-compliant rental properties. Only 26 of those were transient properties that we actually did use the software to comb. Okay. So, we caught 14% in the net, but 86%
um escaped. And this year we do hope that um that the rental properties will be able to be added. That was what Marina had reported the last time. And I you know I think that is continues to be Entra's responsibility to um keep on top of that progress and know know where the
city is headed. >> Is is there a penalty assessed against I mean I hope I hope it's not just I get away with it until somebody catches me and then I just pay it. Um, is there a significant penalty or not really? >> Not not
>> Well, it's there's a delinquency fee, an interest. >> Yeah. Right. And yeah, but it's not as if it's, you know, thousands of dollars run to be honest. >> And there's nothing on the or there's nothing on the books that permits or Yeah. >> For a very short time, the fee for being
late was 10% a month. >> And wow. No, the city the the the people that were subject to it revolted >> and it was >> mind you that's $13 or $15. I mean it's >> 10% a month. No >> $15 a month. Is it not $150? I forget.
>> No, it's between$1 and $500 is the license fee bas based upon on size. >> Yeah, it's about $175 on average. >> Okay. So 17. >> Okay. But 17 per month. >> Yes. >> If you're 10 months late, you're now paying 100%. >> Okay.
>> I know. It's a It's a shame that what we don't do is advertise that if you don't pay um when we do catch you, you are paying retroactively from the date that we establish this rule. Um so that can
give people the incentive that I don't feel like if they catch me paying the lump, I would rather just start paying it now. Yeah, that's that's not erroneous. I mean, that's not the >> So, the city did announce publicly in the beginning of the season that if you didn't get your license, you would be
fined. >> Okay. >> We just didn't follow through on that this year. I hope in 26 we do. >> Certainly, code enforcement did have conversations and sent out letters. So, there there was activity uh just probably not as punitive as >> sure, >> you know, we're discussing here.
Do we know what percentage we don't have ownership for or cont like an actual human contact for those return to senders? >> Um Job I want to say that I think it was only a couple though. >> Yeah, it was only maybe two that they got the address.
>> But out of the 26 that were the transient, right? Okay. So the 154 that are available through realtors, I have to assume that the realtor has a contact for them. All right. Anything else on that topic?
Anything else you wanted to add to the update? >> Uh, no. >> Okay. >> I'm good. Thank you. >> Uh, next topic under old business, um, the the bidding process for the beach concession fees was successfully concluded. Um, there were no competitive
bids. Um, each property was bid on by the current lease holder. Um, and the amount that is being realized was exactly the amounts that were presented in what I sent you to react to um, back
in in the be in in the beginning of December. So, uh, it's a was a 5% increase over 2026 and then every property levels out from there to be the same by 2030 per linear foot. The way that that breaks down is a 5% increase
this year, 5.43% 43% in 27, 5.77% in 2028, 6% in 2029, and 6.4% in 2030. >> So, I clearly messed up on this, but is did anyone bid for the the spot that
would they didn't? And is it is it too late to bid for something that is not been bid on? I would um have to follow up with Paul um and uh Chris Gillan Schwarz because the bidding process was open and closed and there is sort of a
regulatory requirement around that Ron. So I I can't say >> it may have to be renoticed for example. >> I it wi which yeah so that may very well which means posting in the herald and all bunch of other stuff. Um so >> wondering where your bid was. I I we had
a number of issues going the uh that so >> and and and also I don't know the timing also because I think Paul has to notify from a caffer standpoint. So I don't know how that plays into it if that still was a condition of it. So um I can
certainly ask him and ask him just to reach out to you um if there's any opportunity. >> All right. I tried to get a number of people to do it and then I obviously was unsuccessful if no one did it and so I was just said I'll I'll do it myself but um I didn't
>> I will I I'll ask him. Um and you're welcome. >> We can talk about this some more under um 2026 topics but um Mike I think you and I had thought about going to see Steve Stagger to ask about whether there is the opportunity to add boxes to
alleviate traffic. >> Right. So, I'll be in touch with you on that and you and I can meet with him. >> I do want to just note for the um the record is that the some of the other conditions included in the contract are about setup and timing and what is
allowed. Um so those were clearly they are clearly delineated. There will be markings on the beach as to what the parcel allows for uh the location of the parameters etc. So, um, and there will be a meeting, um, by the operations
coordinator for the city with each of the beach concessions at the start of the season to make sure that they're clear. Uh, it's in the contract, but just to make sure that from an operational standpoint, they understand what they're required to adhere to. So, just wanted to make sure that we added
that into. I I would call this a major step forward for the city in terms of the way that this is being administered. The fact that there is now that logic flow that uh can be applied will be applied in perpetuity. Um and I'm proud of the role
that MTRA played in helping to drive that process. So thank you all for your input and suggestions. Um, second item under old business, you'll recall that we had made a recommendation on resident parking permits, um, which
were partially accepted. We had suggested it stay at 500, um, because of the increase in from the seasonals, uh, from 350 to 5. Um, we had also suggested that the amount be the same in the metered zones because the the homeowner
has no control over whether their zone is metered or not. the city chose to go with a 750 number for that. Um, following that la at our last meeting, we had some discussion about the fact that there was a proposal to only allow full-time residents to receive the
permits. Where the original idea was no short-term rentals, now it was even part-time homeowners or would would not be able to have their permits. Um, it was brought before council. Um it was there were significant questions that
were asked on both sides which I thought was a very healthy and transparent process. Um the original way that the that city council went about that was to pass the resolution including the restriction, but then um the mayors Mullik encouraged additional dialogue
which did occur and by the time the next it was on the agenda the next time it had already been determined that um that the resolution that had been passed was being tabled and it will go no further. So it's tabled forever. Um, if you are a if you are a
>> tabled forever, yes, that's how you apparently once once a resolution is passed, you can't then that's that's the way Yeah, >> that's the way that that works. >> Um, I I I think that the primary reason, and
Moren, you can certainly um underscore this. Um, there weren't very many as Morina had presented to us at the last meeting. I think it was 40 and 20 15 of those were short-term rentals. So, we're not talking about a lot of spaces. There was dialogue about at one of the earlier
meetings about how there's just space after space after space that's vacant and and that's a we're we're wasting one of our precious resources. Um the the gentleman had actually referred to Windsor Street and Congress Street, which is where I live. So I had some interest in that and I actually did a a
a bit of a detailed walk and I found that there were a total of six out of maybe 25 so almost 25% were on Windsor Street of the entire city. >> So the >> six of the I'm sorry six of >> the 25 >> the 25 that were res. Okay.
>> Yep. So since we're all um affected by what we experience if you're and it's a one-way street. If you're driving by these empty spots every single day, um you think that it's just this is a city-wide problem and it wasn't. It was a local res a local um neighborhood
problem because these houses many of these houses on Windsor were built without driveways. I also found and and and and brought to the city that in my opinion there were 10 spots on Windsor and Conquer Windsor and Congress that could be reclaimed by restriping. So
there was a yellow curb in places where there was no it was not blocking a sight triangle. It was not blocking a driveway. Um but for whatever reason um the the the line had been drawn that you couldn't park there. Um so the city manager did uh agree that he would
follow up on that. Uh there were three for example by the entrance by by the sandpiper. So it's south of South Lafayette. So it's not in the sight triangle. >> Right. >> Okay. There were three spots along the curb that absolutely could have parking
and wouldn't interfere with anything. >> And what was they were just drop off and pick up or something spots or >> sometimes over the years things have changed. Um and you know I I know in one particular instance on Hughes where if you looked at it from the street it would appear to be no issue and you
would make a recommendation such as that. It's the problem with the person trying to pull out because it's a one-way street. They can't make no they can't make the turn because there's a tree there. So there's a tree in front of their property that can't be moved. The only way they can get out if someone
parks there which looks like a good parking spot is if it was car was there >> they could never get out of their driveway. So there are sometimes those kind of scenarios that to the apparent I'm not saying the examples that Martin said but you know when you're looking looking at it. So it's good that Paul's
taking a look at it. Um, the other thing I just wanted to reinforce about how this uh the other component to the permit parking is that short-term rentals, transient rentals will not be allowed to apply and receive as long as
they have a mercantile license a permit parking. So there were some impact it but what we what was reinforced by the city solicitor during these discussions is that that was always the intention of the ordinance that was on the books.
Somehow it fell through the cracks and now it will be confirmed and checked. So >> does that include I know of rentals that have like Bank Street parking as a parking spot. Is that is that >> No, this is per permit parking in front of their house.
>> So they have a permit for >> right? They go to Bank Street. Yeah. Separately. Yes. >> Same thing. Jackson Street L. You can rent a space in Jackson Street Lot. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, anyway, >> that doesn't flood. >> Just wanted to create that um make sure that everyone understood that distinction and what was changed or not
changed. >> So, I we got to the right place in in my opinion. I I I didn't really know how we were going to determine what a full-time resident is. uh you know Bob Lwell >> saying just that part of it was tabled but they're still increasing the dollar
>> everything else everything else had already been passed this was this was an addendum to the most to the recent recently passed resolution to restrict it to if you have a Cape made driver's license >> and I can tell you that I very judiciously have to monitor how much
time I spend in each state for tax purposes but I could have a New Jersey driver's license tomorrow without increasing how much time I'm here >> okay or a Cape May driver's license. I also already have a vehicle registered in New Jersey and I do have a driver's
license number in in New Jersey. Um, incredibly, it's the same number I had when I first got my license when I was 17. They keep it for you forever. Yep. Yep. >> So, >> it's like a table resolution.
>> Exactly. And the other part is I actually have it memorized because you have you used to have to write it on your checks. You don't you don't know this. Yeah. You used to have to write it on your the back of your checks when you when you >> no ATMs. >> That's true.
>> Uh any other comments or questions on the resident parking fees? I I know that Russ will be um pleased because he had several members of cottagers that were concerned about where they were going to park. >> Martin, just one question. So this change or Marine this change is going to happen. What are we going to be looking
for in a year other than revenue? Are you looking for different outcomes on the street? Different, you know, more availability, less availability. >> Um I would say that it's was such a small um group. I mean in total I think we were looking only at about 65 um
parking spots in total. This just sort of reinforced an existing ordinance that it's not available for what is considered a commercial property. Um, so it sort of provided the ability for us to clean that up a little bit. Um, and
for the clerk's office to be monitoring when they're getting a merkantile license to double check against any permit parking applications they may have. So really it affected a very small group of people, but just sort of reinforced. >> Yeah, a good policy to make, you know,
from an enforcement standpoint, making sure we're being fair to, you know, everyone equally. So >> there will be a small increase in revenue because we went we eliminated the seasonals. So anybody that had a seasonal it wasn't very many went from 350 to 500 and then the metered spots
went from 5 to 750. I as we were in the throws of this I started to realize that this issue was now getting so much publicity that there actually may be more applications for resident parking permits as a result of the work that was done. people may not have realized they
could even get one >> and so we'll have to wait and see whether that happens or not. >> Well, and then I get that we can see when that happens, but it'll be a question of how many permit applications are there for how many cars versus total spots. >> I don't know if that's something that we measure. >> You're only allowed one spot.
>> I mean, how many available spots are on the street? Okay. Compared to the application numbers. >> Yeah, we'll we'll talk about um parking in a in a moment in a in a couple of moments. Um, but I I uh there was an some activity at the planning board this past meeting, not yesterday's meeting or two days ago, the the previous one. If
you didn't see that, I think you might want to um tune in to that one because I know you have a particular interest there. Okay, on to new business unless anybody else had any other old business. Um, so Sarah after our last meeting
circulated an email that highlighted the fact that there is pending resolution at the state level that would require municipalities to allow acceler accessory dwelling units, ADUs. Okay. And um I found it extremely
informative but at the same time perplexing. Um because I have no life actually have a very long drive. I listen to every planning board meeting and every zoning board meeting. And at planning board meetings, they talk about accessory units and incentives for accessory units. And at zoning board
meetings, they talk about you can't have an accessory unit. So I was pretty puzzled and dug into a little bit. I'm certainly not expert at it yet. I did have a very brief conversation with Craig Hurles, the city engineer, on the topic, and he did confirm yes, there is
an ordinance that provides incentives for accessory apartments. So, I I I I built upon um what was contained in Sarah's email um where an ADU is a garage conversion, backyard
cottage, a mother-in-law's suite, or an above garage apartment. Okay? And that's not what the city allows. the city allows accessory apartments. Okay. And the what the way that that works is
that um it's very restrictive. There's in in what you're reading, there's a minimum size that the apartment has to be. Um it must be front facing to the street. It can only have one entrance. So, for
example, converting a garage where you would have a garage door and a side door, you'd have to close one of them off and it would have to be front facing. >> You can only have one entrance to the apartment. >> Doesn't that violate fire? >> The code
>> probably not for a single story or windows. You're saying >> once you hit above three stories, probably >> you have to meet the parking standard, the RSIS parking standard. Okay. and the work that we're doing on Washington Mall
or in the in the commercial zone um that this the incentive that's being provided is not having to provide a parking space. Um >> but that's specific to >> Yep. Um you have to comply with all of the affordable New Jersey affordable housing regulations. You have to deed
restrict it. It can only be used to meet affordable housing. Okay. Um and what that means is that you can't use it as the owner. You can only make it available to be used under the affordable housing laws. And I think the the the Lafayette Street units are still
not full. >> Yeah, they are. >> Are they finally? >> We finally got the second um tenant. >> So, what that means is if you if you aren't aware, these units would have to go to a lottery and anybody that meets the income standards would be eligible to apply even if they had absolutely no
connection to Cape May. But I will tell you that the criteria, the application, the verification, the documentation is, you know, very um detailed. >> Yep. >> Um so there's having been um following
up routinely and regularly with the the uh firm that we use to do the placement for the two units on Lafayette, I've been in touch with them probably at least once or twice a month for the last 12 months. So this is no easy process. We had over 800 applications over 800
for those two >> for two places. >> Yes. But the majority of them, Ron, did not meet the criteria from the income even when they met the income. They didn't meet they did not um be be able to provide documentation. Um so there
it's it's not as easy as it sounds just meeting income criteria. >> And you're saying they made too much money. >> Yeah. That's the >> And they have to show bank statements. They have to show um their credit scores have to be at a certain level.
>> So they have to be bad in other in order to offer them. >> No, quite the opposite. They have to have a credit score of 650 or above which is not >> Yeah. No. Because the Yeah. The owner doesn't want to wants reliable tenants.
Yeah. Sure. So reliable, you know, they want to see credit history. They want to see work history. They want to assure that there's not more individuals living in the property than are stated on the application. Um and so some of these people and I won't take any more time in a moment but um you know fall out
because they're not able to meet all of those you know so this has taken you know over >> 15 months to get to um apartments filled. So I >> and there so there's no no relation to workforce housing. This is >> workforce housing is completely
different. >> All right. And and with the affordable housing, uh >> this is state driven. This is not related. I mean, >> yes. >> So, >> so there's money to supplement that. >> So, that's actually here. Okay. It's on page two in um section J.
>> Um you can receive fun. It it it's a little bit out of context the way that it's written, but the way that I read it that out of every if you were to build 12 accessory apartment units, six of them would have to be low income, meaning six
of them could be moderate income. >> Okay? And then the in the financial incentive that's available is $20,000 for a moderate income, 25,000 for a low income, and 30,000 for a very low income unit. So, if you take that 12 accessory
unit complex that's being built, it's uh $270 to $300,000 of financial incentives that would come out of the out of the COA fund to help someone to build those 12 units. >> Okay. Um I can't say that they that they
have that it's never been utilized, but from the conversations that I recall at the planning board, it certainly is underutilized, if it's ever been used at all. Yeah, I was going to ask of the 12 are there any in existence and >> there are two
>> there are two >> they're not accessory let me let me those were the result of the development on Pittsburgh Avenue >> yeah right Lafayette Lafayette Street was required >> so those are those are not part not necessarily I would say
>> accessory apartments >> accessory apartments if if you have a house and you decide that you want to incorporate ate an accessory apartment. This would be the the the process that you would follow and you would apply to the city. To my knowledge, I don't know
of any of these that exist. That doesn't mean they don't. It's just not something that uh it probably predates my time on council. If it does, Sarah, so the other two were part of an agreed upon
settlement between the plan that that was done at the planning board level because the the builder was required to provide those as part of the affordable housing plan, which is another component to this. They had to either build the
units in the develop site or offer alternatives to that. and they came up with the alternative and that was accepted. >> There's a whole other piece that's affordable housing that's >> so what we have on the books in Cape May
does not address what is being discussed at the state at the state level that municipality has to allow for accelerated dwelling units. So we can draw a bright line between ADUs and accessory apartments. An accessory apartment is an ADU but not all ADUs are
accessory. Okay. Um, so what the state is trying to do is to provide workforce housing. And where the planning board has landed, which I do agree with, is they're the the work that they are doing, it's workforce housing and long-term rental housing.
So you because you really can't just can't define what workforce is. And there's debate about whether that workforce is has to be within Cape May or outside of Cape May. Uh we talked at our last meeting about there being a need for there to be places that are
budget friendly within the city so that the city stays vital, but then also places that potentially are outside the city for the people that work in Cape May. So there's there's more coming on this. Um I I just wanted to build off what Sarah had already introduced to us
in terms of um the the ADUs and I I think it it's worth it warrant watching. Um I even think >> sorry >> is it not recording? >> I can speak to one
>> I do have one update on it. I don't know if that's helpful. Um, so when I sent around that last email, it was about bill S234. There was a new proposed bill in the 2026 session. So, it's introduced January 13th. It's S1786 >> S1
>> uh 786. So, I haven't read a ton into it yet. Um, but I do know the differences between the two was the old bill, every municipality had to match one model ADU ordinance and this new one, there's minimum state standards. So,
municipalities have local control over design, parking setbacks, and other zoning details. So, um, what would be required within Cape May would be a change in the zoning law to allow for accessory dwelling units, >> right, >> to meet whatever if this bill becomes
law. >> So, the terminology I'm not familiar with. This this is implying that you only have to do this for 10 years. >> It's deed restricted. It's called it's it says it meets a minimum 10-year
control period, >> right? >> Is >> so I don't know this I don't know the law the um the the New Jersey um affordable housing law close enough to know what that phrase means. >> But a deed restriction would be a per my
this is I think related. There was a property for sale in Westgate May that was income restricted and they had advertised it that it was only income restricted for two more years or some some limited period of time and then the
the buyer could do whatever they wanted to with it. >> So I it must not have been a deed restriction. It must have just been that. Um, and I don't I have no idea if somebody bought it and made it. >> Yeah, I you know I I think one of the
the challenges um is with is the um COA regulations and what we're required to do. I mean we're in our round four at this point and the state has you know just we get criteria that's put down from the state. So I, you know, I don't
know if that 10 years is just, you know, 0 to 10 and at the end of it, you know, you're out and you no longer have a deed restriction on that property and that you're able just to rent it in the manner that you choose to or once it gets into the program, you know, it
makes it that much more difficult for it to come out. I I would I would defer to Chris Gillan Schwarz on that because again we just got a new a new round of um criteria uh that will be presented at the next planning board meeting. So
>> but that's affordable housing. That's not dwelling unit. So there's part of this which is whatever we're required to do and it's not clear to me whether we I mean >> what would we want to do if we weren't required to do anything right and then and then try to fit whatever whatever
that is in the context of the Yeah. Uh so in terms of trying to provide long-term rental units for people that we want to live in the city or having surrounding towns provide long-term rental units for people that work in the city or workforce housing or seasonal
health housing or all those things. Affordable housing doesn't do any of that >> be because we presume that people in the workforce make too much money to >> No, they just don't meet all of the different standards and we can't restrict it to people that live or work
in Cape May. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, it's a lottery. It's you could not you could even not live in New Jersey and you could apply if you meet the criteria and get that precious unit that we're trying to come up with. >> Yep. You had some. No. Okay. So, I also
did um do a little bit of work through chat GPT and found a couple of really interesting blogs um that were offered by um somebody that makes modular homes and talked about the different kinds of things that are happening in different states. And in that I found u one
passage that said that in New Jersey um certain municipalities offer incentives and financing for ADUs. Um that municipalities participate in affordable housing or workforce housing
programs that may provide low interest loans, fee reductions, or tax incentives if the ADU is rented at an affordable late rate. At the state level, programs tied to housing accessibility, aging in place, or energy efficiency may also
apply depending on how the ADU is used and built. So there are grants there's grant money available at the state level for aging in place units and we just don't allow them here in Cape May. So um this is a bit of a long-term project I think. Um but I I also do think that
given we have representation from planning board and zoning board. I I think the the three units could probably form some type of task force and begin to explore what's available. Keep an eye on this legislation. No different than the bicycle and pedestrian committee was
keeping an eye on ebike legislation and then boom, it was law. So, uh it could happen that quickly. You don't know. Uh but the objective at the state level is to provide places for people to live that are reasonably priced. I can't use the word affordable
because that has a different meaning. >> That's very confusing. >> Okay. So, thanks. This is great stuff and I I think that there's a component to us where if we are a participant in these discussions and I believe if we say that there is something that is
being offered as a financial incentive just like we're doing with the housing over the units in Washington Mall. Um if we provide the the those people with something then we also have the right to say you can't be used on as transen housing. Mhm.
>> Okay. Which would we don't want units to be built and then be on Airbnb, >> right? >> Sarah, was there anything in the New Jersey proposed legislation on affordability because I mean, we're sort of seeing this in states across the country like >> Yeah, I didn't read the details enough yet. >> You'd be surprised, but Montana is a
leader on increasing housing. There's an affordability crisis everywhere. So, you're sort of speaking towards market rate issues. Um, I love the ideas. My questions about it for Kate May are this committee and others spend a lot of time talking about traffic.
>> Uh and so I think the idea is right you build something that is market rate not allowed to be a seasonal or short-term rental. Um and then you are hoping to attract possibly workers who are working in the city and they become full-time residents etc. Um but there will be some
issues related to an increase in residential population that have to do with traffic and parking. which is something we should be mindful of. >> Or potentially coming up with some type of a revenue generating program that allows the city to subsidize that market rate rent if that market rate is too
high for people to reasonably afford, >> right? Like there's always a >> that gap. >> There's a geometry problem which is that the island is the size of the island and the lots are the size of the lots and there's only so many units that can be built and that might not shift the market enough. But if I wanted to convert my garage into an apartment, I
would need to get a whole slew of variances because it's not you're not allowed to build an accessory dwelling unit in Cape May, >> right? Yeah. >> Well, and there's a number >> under that criteria. >> There's a number of >> Well, I would need you would need exceptions to every one of those. You would need a variance for every one of
those to be able to to convert my apartment into somebody where that can age in place. >> Well, I guess I'm aging in place in our house, but that's We all are, right? >> Yeah, pretty much. >> I mean, I'm trying to understand the connection between this and, you know,
allowing further multifamily, uh, you know, take some vacant lots on Pittsburgh and say, well, why wouldn't we zone that to be able to put multiple town houses as as long-term rentals or or something? I I don't know. >> Yeah. I mean, that that area in particular, it's wetlands. It's not
going to be D approved. In fact, it when it going back to uh Mr. Herurles and his um you know round four report there there there's no land on which to build in Kate May >> without knocking something down.
>> Well, yeah, but that's not Yeah, that then that's being that's privately owned. It's not cityowned. >> Sure. No, no, I understand. I'm I'm talking I What causes me to think about it is I drive past, you know, on Pittsburgh there's lots for sale for a million and a half bucks a piece. You theoretically, I presume they're
buildable and you could put >> I wouldn't necessarily say there are Yeah, there are properties back in off of Vento that are for sale but not necessarily buildable. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> So, it's not just because people want to sell land doesn't necessarily mean you can do anything.
>> And we have friction between where can we put affordable housing and then where can we where would we put these long-term rentals. So, it's it it's complicated. Um, but if we don't talk about it, then nothing's going on. >> No, that's true. >> All right. And so I I do think that for
2026, again, we'll talk about the 26 issues. I think this is one I think this is one where um there there's enough interest in furthering the discussion, particularly with the potential for there being legislation that now forces us to react to
any anything else on >> just want to make one comment for the committee if you have time. There was an ordinance that was introduced at the last council meeting that talked about um some components of this in the C5 district. There will be a full report um that was put together by Mr. Hurles that
will be presented at the next planning board meeting. So if you have interest around sort of you know get you know understanding how this space is evolving on the affordable housing side for the city which we are required by law um then I would encourage you to look at
both of those. Yeah. I saw that the Herald picked that up. >> Yeah. >> And everywhere obviously what happened at at city council meeting last week. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Was the latest step in continuing to ensure that this city is in
compliance. It doesn't actually get us any closer to building anything. It just furthers the plan that the city had because the the state issued a deadline that we had to meet and it was a relatively tight deadline. So, we met
it. We did we did what we had to do, but it didn't really propose any new practical solutions to the issue >> other than identify an opportunity should that opportunity come >> right >> before us in some form or fashion. >> Right. And and to be clear, what what
the work that we would do or that I'm suggesting we would do would be on ADUs, not on affordable housing. There are much brighter people wanted to make sure >> there are much brighter people than us, okay, that are going to have to deal with the affordable housing issue. Okay. So, next is
I knew that attendance would be a little bit late tonight, so I I I didn't do anything on this in advance. Um, you you may recall that when when I first um was given the opportunity to be chairperson, I put together a list of potential issues for 2025 26. Some of those we've
been working on. Um, some of them we haven't been. Um, so I've kind of, you know, I've taken another look at that and talked thought about the discussions that we've already been having and I I think where I would like to go since this is our first meeting and unfortunately we do only meet every other month. um I'm going to send a list
of the issues that I have identified and any others that anybody wants to add um to each member and ask them to commit to one of the projects so that there are a series of teams that will be working on
a variety of things. Um given that we meet every other month, if the if there aren't sub team, subcommittees that are working on things, things aren't going to agree >> progress. Okay. So what I have what I've identified is um the MTRA mission statement and I am tracking um what HPC
is doing. Um they have alignment meetings and I don't know whether they have to be they're not regular meetings. They have they meet separately and I I will take a look and see what they're doing in terms of whether those need to be sunshined or not. If it needs to be sunshine, if we want to have the full
committee work on it, if it needs to be sunshined, then that's what we would need to do. Um the alternative is that we would get three people to work together and come up with some not not not we're not replacing the ordinance that exists that forms MTRA. Okay. We're
simply saying that the these are the principles that that MTRA works under the kind of the things that you've talked about in the past. Okay. Um the beach concessions follow up with Steve Stager. I think that that's that that's one. Um the residential parking permits was a 26
issue and that's completed now. Um there's nothing more that need that we need to do on that. Uh we do have the state budget appropriations and revenue cap issue. Um I've been working with Moren and Paul to try to get time with
Lauren, our our new CFO, and this is not the time of year where she has the opportunity to do that. So, I will do some research on my own and and work with um with you gentlemen to further that issue. Um >> Martin, I did have a followup with Paul
today. He's going to reach out to you and hopefully sometime and you know, now that I've laid out what the the plan budget presentation are, she should be able to have some time maybe towards the latter part of March, but Paul assured me he would be in touch with a date.
Okay. So, and we will continue to push it forward before that because the latter part of March, our next meeting is April. We So, if we're going to make progress, we've got to >> Yep. >> we got to get on the stick. Um, there's a parking study that we've been
requested to do. More on that in a minute. Um, I want to follow up on the, as I mentioned earlier, the expansion of the short-term rental and mercantile license tracking to include the realtors. Um I I think that when the um when the
when the planning board met and discussed the results of their subcommittee on parking um their recommendation was that a study be done because we haven't done a parking study since 2002 and and the you know and and the immediate response was well where the
where is the money going to come from? Well that's our job right >> money for the parking stud >> for the parking study. Okay. So, I was >> a parking study. Really? >> Well, so you you would need to I'm not going to recap the whole thing. You'd need to watch the meeting. Okay. >> But basically, where the planning board
came out, and please correct me if I'm misstating at all, >> um is we need data to be able to make a decision, but just turning a consulting firm loose isn't going to get us the data that we need. >> Okay? So, it would have to be set up in
a way that is structured to give very specific instructions on what we're looking for. And it would not just be how many spots are available on a brutal rainstorm in the middle of a July afternoon over by the cove or which was one of the parking studies that was done
and there was plenty of parking available during COVID during the rainstorm in July. Okay, that's not a parking study. Um, but where I'm going with this is you've brought you brought the idea one time about um sponsorship of city initiatives. Okay. Forming a uh
getting a sponsor for the um the the the nature walk um cleanup. >> Okay. We could potentially look for sponsorship for the parking study to help the city to decide this is something that needs to be done. for
example. >> Um Martin, could I add to that? >> Can I just um I did have a very brief conversation with Chris Gilen Schwarz about that. So, anything before you start exploring that, it really is being a municipal government. It's not really
I don't want to say not permitted, but it's it's >> more than likely maybe not in the context that some people are used to sponsorships, >> but Chris could give you any criteria for which it might meet. So, just want to put that caveat. we would need to have a group of people that would take
that on as a topic and then they would need to meet with Chris and find out what's what's he gave me a response and I I don't I wouldn't be able to find it right now but I very specifically asked him being in you know municipal government what's permitted what's not permitted kind of a thing and and what's
the perception of influence of of that so anyway he can provide that to you >> um and then um can I just add one thing sure I'm I have no doubt that we need new parking study. What I want to make sure is
included if and when we get to that point is what are the goals, >> right? Because I think there's especially for people who aren't versed in how government works, who don't sit on these committees, there is this idea that the more available parking the
better. And that would probably mean you won't be able to get over the bridge because there'll be unlimited parking and everyone will drive. Um, and so I just want to make sure that there's I don't know that we should be the driver of what those goals are, whether the consultant drives it or whether it comes
from council. Um, but someone should say here's what our objectives are. We want to make sure that there's satisfactory parking for tourists over the summer for residents on the street, a comprehensive, you know, guiding light for that study. So Joe, as part of the the the discussion at the planning board
meeting, um many of us who there was a small work group that group that worked on this, but many of us did sort of add to that. And some of the things that I added to it is look, you have to include employers and employees. You need to make sure that we have a a constituency
list that is just not saying is there parking, you know, around the mall in July. um and that it's broader than that. Um you know, my point was you're on the east end of town, there's plenty of parking. You know, you drive up and down the street, you can park. It's
location driven. Um and Craig Hurles, who is our, you know, our our board engine board planner, basically said, you may not want more parking because it is a control mechanism because you don't necessarily you can't just satisfy
everyone. And how many more people could you put on the mall? you can't get a reservation in a restaurant now in the summertime. What more can you do from a capacity standpoint? So, there were some interesting discussions around it. Um, and even, you know, Dennis, uh, you
know, said, look, you know, we're all we're, you know, we believe there should be a parking study. And he said, or if not, let's just decide that there's nothing we can do about it. Your point, the island's only so big. How much more could you put and where would you put parking? Is it going to interfere with
our obligation for you know COA and affordable housing by taking something? So there's there's this complexity of interwoven issues which is why it will be decided whether or not you know if council wants to move forward you know um once it comes to us because it's not
one-dimensional. There's just again we don't have any land. So, you know, those are the kinds of things. Do we trade off the requirements from the state for parking versus building affordable housing, which we should do because we need to be able to meet our obligation,
etc., etc. So, aside from just the traffic study and who's the constituency and what are the goals, there's these other layers that are that are sort of >> you just used the magic word. There's also a traffic component to this. >> Yeah. where we now have
>> we no longer have the ability to get off the island in a reasonable amount of time at certain times of day. And uh I shared with a couple of my colleagues uh while I was away in St. Martin, it took me four and a half hours to go less than four miles once I once we landed in St.
Martin. So, I've seen what happens if you continue to bring cars into a place without giving any consideration to >> the impact, >> how they're going to move around. >> Okay. >> Um >> I always say the island's going to sink.
>> Had a conversation this week about, you know, a parking garage. Well, that may provide for additional parking, but that also means additional cars. And then that will fill up and now you need another parking garage in addition to um someone that I know that I' that I had a
conversation with um who was the former chief of police in New Brunswick. He said you build a parking garage, you have a homeless problem too because it's sheltered. So um there's there's it's a very complicated issue and with Dennis's sentiment is either do a parking study
so that we have facts so that we can proceed or let's stop talking about it. And we can't stop talking about it. We need to we need to be talking about how pe how we transport people around the island. And if the parking is on the east side and people don't want to be on
the east side, then we've got to have a way. Okay. Even for residents for the for them to be able to get to the places that they want to go. >> I had that plan. >> It has to be fun and it has to be convenient >> and it has to be has to be able to to
carry their their beach stuff. Okay. Um or you know we could be talking about moving employees and having the employees that all come in off from off the island having some type of a satellite parking with transportation. It's bigger and it's bigger than even just Cape May. >> Mike was on council when I put forth
that plan. >> So um I I do think that that's another project that just has so many different components to it that and there is a revenue component. So that we do we should have you know we we we should be a part of those discussions from the
start and that's what I'll try to we'll form a work team and we'll work forward on that move forward on that. Um that's what I had as being sort of the focus for 2026 we won't accomplish it all but if we continue to just eat away at these
things that's how things happen. Any other suggestions? So, there were two topics I know that we've batted about uh historically as well. Um, one of them has to do with Coast Guard. Um,
there's a there's a word for the government >> payment in of taxes. >> Thank you. Payment in L of taxes. >> Um, and um and and then the other one was the is has been going on for years. uh the kind of the funding mechanism for schools with with
lower township and some of that back and forth. I I don't know those are >> political. >> Yeah. So the pilot >> is and I I don't know that we down that path. >> I I'll just share the background that I'm aware of and I know that Mike's probably aware of too. I mean, there have been exhaustive
conversations at all levels, including the state and, uh, congressional and senatorial representatives with regard to the pilot program. Um, and it's gone nowhere. Uh, and it's unlikely that it will. >> No, we actually have a pilot program. I
found that out. >> We have we have a pilot program. Okay. Coast Guard. >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah, I saw it in the newspaper. I just for the Coast Guard. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's what it would be for is is to have the federal government help subsidize the services that Cape May
provides. Right. >> So there actually is one for the schools >> and it was it was >> well just the just the um not both schools I don't believe. Is it just the the local school? Not >> the elementary school. Right. Because we don't >> So we're paying for the high school, >> right? Yeah. Yeah.
>> And the middle school. So yeah, >> township >> and and that whole that whole thing is face it um all the we keep wanting to talk about something that lower township controls and why in heaven's name do you ever think that they would change their
mind and say yeah we'll we'll be glad to share all our money with you guys. >> So there will always be two votes against us. >> Always always two against us. Yeah. So anyhow, >> I went to a meeting with with the taxpayers association to the lower township administration. We we tried to
have a conversation when I was on the taxpayers um association and I mean >> there's yeah nothing to talk about. >> No, I just I feel I'm trying to think about things that could have a much more significant impact than >> they're so happy >> than parking fees or you know,
>> right? >> Well, I I I had identified it on that original list as a subject. Okay. And given that there's only eight of us, okay, and we I would say that these higher priority, meaning that these are things that can happen sooner. Okay.
>> Um the the article that I read that where I I was indicated there was a pilot program was the consolidation of the West Cape May and Cape May elementary schools. >> And I don't know whether that's going to go anywhere or not. >> That's being driven by the state, right? Aren't they?
>> No, it was actually being discussed here on the island. There is there are drivers coming from the state to consolidate school districts. >> They had started it themselves. But I I also thought I just read something that the governor the state was putting forth potential legislation to require a
certain um based on the size of the school or the participation by the number of students. So >> and I also read that Cape May Point is a school of choice burough. So they don't participate in in the u in the arrangement. That's right.
Right. >> Um, so I I'm gonna those those are the the projects I've identified. I again I'll circulate them. I'll ask each member to indicate, you know, their first and second choice and then we'll form a bunch of subcommittees to be able to make sure that we're continuing to to make progress.
>> Um I I'm not sure it's worth the effort. Um but there's there is this other issue um that I had some conversations with the Coast Guard on and that issue is of course um the diesel plant which
is going to be a fortune um you know for us regardless of how much we get from the federal and state governments. Um there's still a large bit of money that we're going to have to come up with. And
um Zach and I had brief discussions with the Coast Guard about um them actually paying a bit more. I mean we we have they demand a lot of water capacity. We have to size our
demand you know our capacity I should say to meet their demand. And my question to them was is that can we not um basically charge you um a more appropriate number because of the size?
Well, anyhow um I I think first of all the their answer was >> no, >> but >> I'm I'm sorry. We were asking for them to help with the investment. >> That's when they said not on a bet.
However, um the commander at the time um not the base commander, but this is u one of the other commanders said that we by the way we do pay our bills. We always pay our bills. So he was kind of
wink wink um you could charge us more money say for um the water that we consume. Now whether or not it's a source of revenue for us to support the DAO plant, I don't know. I think
somebody it may have been Paul kind of um put a kaibos to it because I think he said that they really don't. We we had the understanding that they consumed as much as 12% of all the water on Cape Island and I believe Paul said it's not
not even close to that kind of number. Nonetheless, um it's it's a significant number. Do we want to um pursue that with the Coast Guard is the question. And I I really do think it's you know, the local Coast Guard can
>> um you know, they can make decisions or you know they can they can say we're not going to fight you if we do. In fact, you >> assessment has a role in those discussions. So, should we be identifying it as something we're going to work on
>> in setting water rates? Is that I mean, that's the real question, right? Do we >> probably not? >> Yeah, probably not. >> But I think it's an important point because there are different customers, right? And so the customer of the Coast
Guard base wouldn't put capital money up, but if we send them a bill that incorporates some some of the financing as in in a way to recoup that's being that's part of the discussion and dialogue, which was why Mike and and the
mayor went out to have that initial conversation. you know, just as West Kate May is a customer and gets bulk rates, um, you know, when we get to that point and Kate May point, there may need to be some discussions about that. You know, they may not have capital to help
with the, you know, the ability to invest in it, but there's got to be some associated um, there's an associated expense for the city that needs to be recouped. And um Paul is taking that into consideration as he's looking at
the model and looking at some other um you know components to this uh and how much the city is going to be under the obligation and how much we're getting in grant money and other federal funding um and loan forgiveness and all of those other things that are still evolving at
this point. So, >> okay. Thank you for uh letting us know about it. Appreciate that. >> Um so, now we'll go back to our normal round table of topics that are on people's minds. Um I wanted to start with uh Morino on the parking. >> Yeah. So there there is one thing that
we've been t we've talked about internally and wanted to find out if uh this uh group would be willing to assist in what will be a very short turnaround as unfortunately we sometimes do but we have not uh across the board raised
parking rates in the last six years. Um and so as we've done with other projects like beach tags etc. Um we have an opportunity to maybe take a look at that do a brief uh survey of some of the municipalities that use Park Mobile and
there are a number of them you know near in Kate May County alone excuse me and make some recommendations back to council. What I discussed with Martin is ideally if we could do this and have some recommendation for April timeline, it would meet with our meeting um and we
could present it to count we it would go to council for their second meeting ideally in April and at that point we'd still have time to make some impact for this season coming up. So I'm looking to, you know, put that out to the group. I can assist and participate in any way
you need me to but it's not normally something you know sometimes Martin and I work with Paul directly but this is something if some you know a component of people a couple people from the group wanted to get involved just need the commitment that we could get it turned around in that period of time and that's why I wanted to put it out there if not
you know I'll try and work directly just with Paul but I thought this was a sort of a good short-term project um you know to have MTRA involved with so >> does Park Mobile I would thought they could provide us a a wealth of information. >> That was my question. >> Well, they could, but here's what I
don't want to get hung up with them waiting for data to come for what Avalon charges versus Stone Harbor versus, you know, etc. They may have to get client approval because they may consider it proprietary. I don't know any of those things. Now, I can start there, but the
fact of the matter is we could probably go on to each of those websites and get that information just as quickly. And I don't necessarily want to ask them to for them to see what happens. Yeah. I don't want them to have to share with me what revenue Stone Harbor makes. So if it's a matter of knowing what an hourly
rate is in a you know commercial zone or I'm that's the kind of research that we need. We need you know five or six municipalities on a piece of paper. What are they charging? What's it look like? And then the fact that we haven't raised it you know what we're also Paul is
going to also take a look at. Are there other um you know potential areas in the city that we could add park mobile to you know that don't exist now and that might prove to be some benefit. This has a little bit of you know juice in it for from that one but it's more about the rates you know knowing what the season
brings. So >> what and I guess fundamentally I a couple things cross my mind. One is it's nice to know what the other municipalities charge but on the other hand I could say why do we care? we we
have a certain amount of parking and we we should be able to >> Well, it's always been the approach with MTRA. We've always done sort of at least a comparison. We did this when we looked at the Park Mobile contract. Um Ron, before you were on, I I when I got on
council, this was an area that I was working on and wanted to understand the revenue. When we got our contract, we found out, lo and behold, that there were more um better um rates that were being provided to some of our municipalities locally. So, we were able
to renegotiate on that. Um I think it's just a basis for argument when we're putting it out to the public. Um in my opinion, as a council member, um I'd like to be able to say I can justify my position based on looking at neighboring um so that we're just not looking at being a money grab, you know, which is
always a criticism. other debate is I mean there's an easy way to limit traffic which I'm not proposing this but you say it's 20 bucks for 15 minutes and I'll bet you we won't have a lot of people >> right >> fighting over parking spot right >> right I think you know sort of a reasonable percentage of increase that's
based on you know a comparison to some local municipalities but also you know sort of takes a look at you know um demand and you know kind of a thing and >> it's it's the kind of thing that people will challenge you on anyhow stand up council meeting, they'll know what the
the rates are in the other towns. >> Yeah. I mean, that is it's having information becomes the powerful justification in many ways. Um we, you know, anytime we say we haven't done this in six years, you know, is is a starting point, but also to say that we've got some basis for it.
>> We we did similar work on the beach tags. Yeah. We we pulled what all the other towns from from available information. We wouldn't necessarily say, well, Cape May should be at the median of the of all of the surrounding towns. It's more a matter of knowing where those surrounding towns are and
where are we today. Obviously, anytime that something doesn't change in six years, you're losing money because the workers that are taking the quarters out of the meters are making more than they did six years ago. And the other thing I'm I'm sorry J just so I don't forget this is to understand
um you know other towns may shut their park mobile off earlier than we do but we are a we are a town that has more of a 10-year season. So that would be the other piece of information to include in there. So um I put it out there and I I
guess you know can we have a discussion as to whether or not this is of an interest to anybody? I'm happy to work with them and do whatever. >> Oh, we'll do it for sure. >> Okay. All right. Thanks Mark. Yeah. So, I I think it's a yes and, right? So, the yes is yes, we should know how we're priced competitively even though we're
not actually competing on parking spots, right? Um people aren't choosing to park in Stone Harbor because the rates less expensive than it is in KMA. But for a quick turnaround purpose, it's good to know where we stand in a competitive market for attracting
tourists who are paying those meters. But the and is this good parking policy, and I think I maybe said this last year, good parking policy suggests that parking is priced correctly when there's one available spot on every block face. So that way people are not circling two
or three blocks of Washington Street Mall 10 times waiting for a spot. There's always a spot available. And Park Mobile's data is powerful enough to get to that direction. Now, the one thing that it doesn't account for is you buy 10 hours at the beach and you leave
after 6. It's not exactly perfect because you don't need to renew every 2 or 3 hours, which is something that could be switched over. Um, but I think the long term and maybe incorporated into that parking study is what is the pricing? What what is current occupancy?
Are people driving up and down beach looking for spots when they should have already been able to park within a block um because it's priced appropriately. So I think the first step is doing exactly what Marine suggested and the second step is incorporating the larger policy practice into that parking study.
>> So I see this as similar to the beach concessions and the and the residential parking permits where we will collect our information. We'll we'll put together um we'll accumulate that and and and if we want to include other recommendations on
parking like dynamic parking fees um we have the opportunity to do that. There's no guarantee that there's going to be an audience for it, but uh th this doves gives us gives give us the opportunity to make additional suggestions >> and I'll just >> I would encourage you I would encourage
you to do that because then even if not part of this um component >> should there be a parking study, traffic study, whatever may come out of the other resolution than these types of things being added into it because I I agree with you
>> park mobile information you know what we look at is revenue and usage and you know but you know people are in the in a restaurant oh add three two more hours to it let's go have a drink kind of thing um no one dives into that data and I would say to you quite frankly Job I
don't know that anybody uh not a disparaging comment but no one in in certainly within administration has that knowledge base to be able to do it and so and and come out with recommendations there's nobody >> that's what the parking consultant is for >> exactly so I think it would be an important component to it you know let
them drill to the data and make policy recommendations for changes to the city. >> And and the other thing just on what Martin said about dynamic pricing, uh that's the best. Park mobile's technology is not there yet. Google had some technology that they folded. So it's just not you. You would need live
cameras, which is not really what you want to do yet, but there's a way to start thinking about forward like if the consultant comes out and says best practice is dynamic parking. there's a way for council to start thinking well five years from now the technology you know >> and that's one of the things that was
discussed at the at the at the planning >> okay I get it I have to watch this video know how people are going to move around 20 years from now >> we don't you know there's there's school of thought that people won't have cars anymore that they'll Uber everywhere
>> yeah Whimo is rolling out in Philadelphia this year >> right >> so um as the only two people that have read Pave paradise I'd like to work on it with you if you If you don't mind, we can do it by phone. And was there were there any other acute interests in helping on this study or leave it to Joe
and I? >> I'm happy to help. Okay. >> Remote. >> Okay. >> I'm happy to help, too. >> Well, we can't have four because >> Okay, that's right. Three. Okay. Never mind. >> So, uh I'm already working on you with the on project, so I'll have I'll have Sarah help us on this. That good? Okay. >> All right.
>> Thank you very much. Sure. >> I'll let other round table topics. What's on your minds? have to excuse myself catch a flight. >> Um I think we have no public. So um I think we are ready for adjournment if anyone wants to make a motion.
>> Second. >> All second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Thanks. Great. >> Thank you. >> Another great meeting. >> Okay. >> We love moving along. Yes. >> With what? Oh, God. Almighty, what are
you good with? >> Good to see you, too. Take care. You >> too, Marie. The challenge is not the challenge of not having like