Yeah. So, uh, Job is in Europe, I believe, on traveling and, um, Russ's 50th wedding anniversary. >> Yeah. Yeah. Must have been a child bride. Yeah. >> Well, he's 70.
>> Is he really? older than me. >> Uhhuh. So hopefully we'll still get Cali and uh we'll we'll see from there. So uh 302, let's uh get started. The pledge of >> allegianceled
allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> I I did forget one member. Sarah is
getting married tomorrow. >> Yeah, that's pretty cool. >> I did not know that until she apologized for missing the meeting. Did you have a >> Yeah, we got four. >> Say that you were upset you didn't get an invite or >> it's the day before. What's What's
>> tomorrow? What's the problem? >> Yeah. What's [Laughter] today? >> I'm just going to go with typical men. >> I am outnumbered. Um, I will wait until we have a little bit more um of our members here before I
ask for a recording secretary. Uh, in the meantime, I will continue to uh to take care of that responsibility. I did send the minutes from the June 12th and the August 28th meetings in advance. Hopefully, everyone had a chance to read them. I'll entertain a motion to approve.
>> I'll make that I'll make I'll second. >> All in favor? Hi. >> Hi. >> Uh Moren, >> so um at this point in time, um the update it just is, um the city's getting ready to kick off the budget season. Uh
and so, uh Paul is starting to work with the department heads on, uh putting their 2026 budgets together. Uh the normal the process will follow. We're um trying to get it done a little bit earlier this year, uh than last year. uh we sort of uh ran I think a little late.
We were sort of towards the end of March. Um usually we like to see things a little bit before that time. So um Mr. Dietrich is here. Um just to put you on the spot, do you have a time frame for when you anticipate the uh meetings?
>> Yes. So I'm sure everyone wed uh the um council meeting the other night. Uh, we are getting a new CFO at the city, Lauren Reid. Um, so I'm going to have a little pre-bud budget, you know, I I have to kind of
meet with her ahead of time just to kind of do that. Um, and I anticipate on the next council meeting on the 21st to be able to announce what those days in November when we're when we're going to have our public budget meetings. Um and
and just to kind of follow up on uh what Council McDade said, the um the budget kind of got a little bit delayed last year because of some auditing and numbers that we needed to have, you know, kind of the the base budget was ready, but from all the departments
putting in their numbers, but there were some auditing numbers and state numbers that kind of delayed us in getting the final budget. So yes, it was a little bit late, but that's was the lateness of but I anticipate having the departments go through all of their budgets in
November so that you know we'll we'll be able to at least send council those uh maybe not the full budget books, but at least the departmental end of the budget books might not have all the final year-end audit because you need a lot of year-end audit information to put the
final eyes and crossing the tees uh for the budget. So one of the other things is that um this past year um Mr. Dietrich and the administrative team have worked on a number of the collective bargaining contracts. So that is a huge component um along with
currently actively working on the police um but we have a pretty good sense of where that direction would go. Um and that drives um obviously pension which is a huge component for both the police and fire. And then we are actively uh
working on the 2026 health benefits renewal. So between those three pieces, it does represent the bulk of the departmental budgets. Uh and then it's the operating expenses and and and capital which is capital is really done a little bit separately from the
operating budget. So um most of the numbers that would be relative to the operating budget are going to be known because the contracts are set. Yeah. Um >> cuz that's that is I forgot that was one of the you know we kind of negotiated
several of the contracts ahead of when the budget was but we were all trying to figure out okay the ones that we didn't have negotiated. We were trying to get them into a spot of where we thought the numbers would be because because that's a lion share of what the
budget increase was was salaries. um that we needed to make sure that we submitted a budget that could accommodate that, you know, because we had six collective collective bargaining agreements plus another two individual contracts that we were dealing with.
>> Um so, thank you Paul. I a couple of just maybe more curiosity questions for the process. So when people roll up a budget request, um is there a specific have we given guidance that says, you know, we're trying to keep it to x
percent or expectation that you're going to hire 10 people or or have fewer 10 people or whatever. Are there kind of guidelines that are given? >> My guidance, >> we have a an attorney that labor attorney. >> Yes. >> One hand or I mean
>> Yeah. Yeah. labor attorneys involved in all of our collective bargaining agreements and discussions. But to go to your port point, Ron, um this year, especially because we have a new CFO coming in, I I I told all the at our last department head meeting, as you're
preparing your budgets, plan on cutting 5% of what you got and then you need to justify everything from essentially 95% above and have document, you know, kind of have a a justification point of what why we need to renew. I
mean, I've had some preliminary discussions with public works who, you know, his account handles all of like from buildings and ground standpoint, all of the electric and South Jersey, you know, the gas bills. Well, as we all know, those bills for even our private
bills are exceeding what we paid last year. And and he's like, well, Paul, does that does that eat into my 5%? I says, no, you you that's part of your discussion point. It's like you can estimate based on this year's usage what
you're going to need for next year and you know that's a you know kind of like what our health care costs are. That's a that's a cost that we can't control but for going around the thermostats every other day and trying to tweak thermostats up and down or making sure
we've turned the lights off after we leave a room, you know. So, but that's only going to save you 5%, you know, if at most. But it's going to take a lot of effort to do that. But those are but I said you got to have that discussion point and says asterisk this line item
is going up because the utilities increased their pricing. So that's kind of the the I want them as much just so that we know but they also need to have that good conversation with we have a new CFO coming in to help her understand
each of those departments budgets so as she works with me to fine-tune and and develop what we want to submit to council she has a better understanding of what the departmental needs are on an indiv individual basis >> and also the I'm sorry Ron just to tie
into that a little bit from a council perspective. We pretty much have known at least since I've been on council where the departments stand year in year out for the last three years with regard to uh personnel needs. Um two things that we've done this past year is
working with Paul um you know I recommended implementation of an FTE allocation by payroll and they have done that. Um, and the second thing is that Paul I Paul and I worked on um an employee justification so that when an employee we have a resignation and you
know he asks for a replacement there's a justification form that he fills out and sends to council. Now, for the most part, it's it's, you know, sometimes it's it's needed, right? If it's it's routine, it's a fireman. But I've said it's the discipline to do it because there will come a point in time where
we're going to start, you know, questioning what a position is and whether or not there's economies and, you know, whether or not we need to postpone hiring for 6 months, you know, the normal things that you do sort of in in a business environment. So, um, Paul has been very receptive to that. and some of the things that I did in a
healthcare environment which my targets used to be a 10% cut every year. It started at 10% below where I was the year before and worked my way back up. So, um we've implemented some of those things which is not standard municipal practice or um and brought more of a
disciplined business approach to it. So, >> and and we've also spent a lot of time moving where uh expenses are allocated to make sure that they're accounted for in the correct department. And you know,
this year here again, public works is finding some more things like for for this was the first year that we moved fuel and gasoline before it was all charged to public works. So, so from a public standpoint,
public works standpoint, if you looked at their budget, that department paid for all the fuel and gas for the entire city. >> That means the police department didn't get charged for any fuel, the fire department, you know, or the construction office, beach, you know.
So, so we've this past year and everybody's like, I didn't account for that in my budget. I said, "Well, that's, you know, we had to estimate some of that usage because we didn't have some of that granular data to do it." So, this is going this is really going to be the first year that, you
know, because we're going to see a lot of our, you know, when the fire department had their fuel line, we didn't necessarily estimate enough in there to account for that, but what we're going to see is the the Republic Works fuel line is going to be a little bit less because they didn't have to
account for as much fuel. So, but that all goes to when we get the requests. Well, how much does it cost to operate department X previously, unless you really did a deep dive, you'd have to okay, that's that,
but then you'd have to go to maybe three or four different other locations to manually add in that. If if council wants >> the fuel thing, I mean that's easy because every one of us >> we we track Yeah, we track that hour. >> But we weren't
budgeting it that way. >> We weren't budgeting it that way. >> I know. I I hear what you're saying. So So now, but it's easy to say, "You owe this money. You owe this." >> When when we get the fuel delivery truck, you know, it gives us a print out of gallons. They print out, they go to the fuel log, print out, okay, what's
been the last thing? And then we look at the usage. I mean, is it an exact gallon for gallon? No, but it's it's a good >> more direct it's more in in line with the actual >> they're eventually getting charged for the the the gallons of fuel and gasoline
that a department's using salary was the other thing that we really >> the other thing that's really has helped um it's it's helping develop leaders. So now the department heads truly understand what the cost is to run their department where you know you know not to be critical but they only understood
what the operating line was for the personnel but they didn't know health care benefits were in a general admin. Um you know everything was in the general admin and what was in their budget was only their salaries for you know the their personnel. That does not help you when you're trying to partner
with someone to get them to understand and appreciate here's the reasons why we need to make these adjustments or why we're putting, you know, a tap on the brakes on hiring right away because now you've got them, they're at the table. They understand what their total budget
looks like. That was not the case three years ago. and and it also helps us appropriate from the current fund to the other utilities so that you know before beach tag and lifeguards fuel was never charged to their line or the repairs to
their equipment or you know so there's a lot of things that we're going to be able to move from the expenses from the current fund that and salaries >> to put it into >> to put it into the utilities to where it should be. So, do you think the um >> I mean, and I'll say from the water
water sewer department was always pretty much >> I think their silo was pretty good except for maybe fuel and vehicle repairs, but you know, from a salaries standpoint, you know, that's another that's why Marine asked us to do that and we spent all summer and you know the department's like why do we
got to do this and and it really was an education process to get them to understand you know let's put it in the right bucket so that we can account for it and and and help justify. I mean, that helps justify expenditures. >> You got to know where it's going. >> I I really appreciate you're doing that.
Two two comments, I guess. One is it'd be great. I I assume that once it moves over there, then the managers who have responsibility for that expense are are really wellversed in it. So, I don't I won't pretend to know what it takes to
run a police force, but it's on our walk to Acme, there's there's always eight cars just running idally. And maybe that's the rule. Have to leave them running all the time. It's all they're always just running. And here's why. Because I've I've had this conversation. I always poke chief about says, "Well,
you could save your budget by turning the cars off." But >> they're still running Sunday when I go to church. >> But but the reason why they have to run them is they all have computers inside >> electronics. and the computers. So if they turn off the car, they have to turn off the computer. That computer takes about 10 minutes to fire back up.
>> Yeah, I understand. >> So if they turn everything off and they're in here >> during report and they get a call and then they have to get out to their car, >> they don't have access to information to do their job. So >> that makes perfect sense. But probably another way to solve that.
>> I I get that. But that's >> No, that's perfect. >> And that's part of the rationale of of that. And the batteries in the vehicles just aren't supportive enough to be able to have >> bring it up a little bit a notch or two. Little little down in the weeds. >> No, no, we are. I guess my my whole point is
>> But that is a good point. I mean, because that's something that everybody sees >> as now as now they have exposure to their actual costs. They can make a an intelligent decision on investing in money to solve that another way or say that's the best way to do it, which which may very well be. No, I I I have
I'm having they're saying, you know, oh, that's my box of copy paper. No, that's your box of >> It's it's it's getting down to a point of >> the five the 5% was that budget to budget the 5% initial cut. >> Just looking at last last year's under or over for this year. That doesn't
factor into that calculation, but could be a part of their justification. >> It's just I just want them to use that as to start their justification point. I'm not, you know, every, you know, we'll go through each line item and and and make that analysis of, hey, whether that's justified or not or what we need
to do, but you know, once we get the global picture of okay, >> are we hitting our 3% in the cap? Where are we with the 0% tax increase? You know, those are the the two marks that we have to hit. Okay, if we're above
that by X, then we have to go back and okay, let me find out which >> is truly justified or ones that we can say, hey, let's cut here, you know. So, but that's part of that where we have to get to. >> And the public meetings, as I understand
it, is anyone can attend, including members. Um, but there's no dialogue. It's just a justformational >> generally informational. Yes. I mean after the sessions I've had you know >> yes >> too disruptive for the department heads you know it's it's nice to be there you
listen you hear you get a better appreciation but even as council we go to very limited meetings because it really is supposed to be their time um as a department head to to do it. So uh I would well imagine that it would throw some people off to a game if you started
asking questions in the middle. So I think it's nice to attend when you can but um you know expectations. >> Yeah, it's it yeah, it's to be a respectful um >> in the last two years that that I've participated there, MR, you know, a representative from MTRA has has been at
those meetings. >> Um was there anything else in your Okay, I took >> Thank you, Paul. No problem. >> Thanks. >> Um feeding into that, uh the municipal budget appropriations caps project. Um so we are making good progress. U Mike,
we have a a subcommittee because of quorum requirements. We can only have three people but Mike and Ron and I uh have met on this uh and and talked about some of the things that we found from the initial meetings. Uh I think our next steps are we are looking to schedule a little bit of time with uh
with the mayor to get a make sure that we are focused on what his expectation was at at bringing the subject to our attention and then also um with with the city's auditor uh Leon Costello. I think that would be a helpful next step for
us. um to be able to understand we have seen some things at least initially from the schedules that we've been provided with by our now former CFO um that there are some observations that we've made um they they seem to be relatively
basic so we're wondering whether there is an explanation that we're not grasping so we'll dive into that a little bit deeper um but uh uh I don't know that we'll really have anything formal in time to be able to influence this year's um budgeting process because that's
already underway. But um again, just to serve as a reminder that the city is restricted to in bas basic terms 3.5% of last year's budget to come come up with this year's budget. Um with many items exceeding that, some items
not and the utilities being exempt. So um the city is very much aware of how how they need to go through that process. Our task as as a committee is to look at the process and say well you know we're we're not seeing this we we are seeing that what kinds of
observations can we have as outsiders anything that either of you gentlemen want to add to that? >> No I think uh I think you said it well. Thanks Martin. >> Okay. >> Actually let me back up. There is one thing. So I I think we should challenge
ourselves to at least come up with a couple of recommendations even for this year's budget process as things to think about because if if during the budget process we identify a a push against a cap that we does not allow us to do
whatever it is that we're trying to do. Um, and if we could say, hey, in this process, we could you could shift I'll make it up a h 100red grand over to the beach utility because they use $100,000 worth of fuel. Obviously, whatever
whatever the cost is that may enable us to even make this budget more successful. So, I think we should at least challenge ourselves for a couple of ideas. >> It's a fair recommendation. We I'm sure that we can come up with some things. I mean, obviously, we want to make sure of our facts before we present anything. Um, but uh I I can I can see a couple of
things that we can think about there as I think about it off the top of my head. >> So Martin, I apologize. I'm not aware of what this project is. So um maybe you and I can have I I wasn't aware that >> we talked about it last meeting. >> Yeah. No, we Yeah, I didn't know that. I did wasn't sure of what direction Zach
had given you, the mayor had given you. I wasn't I know you had talked about it. >> We'll talk offline. Yeah. Thanks. Um the other the second project that is um that was on our our docket for this year that is progressing is the um the
the beach concession agreements. Uh Moren and I have uh have met with city manager and we've had uh several good discussions. Uh the most recent one was last week >> and um I I I guess the way I would
summarize it is that um the current plan is to continue with the same parcels as we've offered in the past, but to um the city manager has done a significant amount of um digging into the data to look at how
much are we charging per square foot in the different parcels because they're very different. um the partials are used in very different ways. Um I I had mentioned at our last meeting that there is an um um we're we're we're intending to follow an alleart approach meaning that there's a certain entry fee for
that parcel whether it's a hotel parcel or a a regular parcel I think is the other term which is pretty much um everything other than what the hotels do. And then to the extent that you want to put in beach boxes or put in um
cabanas um in that parcel or more than an allocation of a certain number of rows of chairs, there's an additional charge. So it becomes voluntary for the uh for the concession concessioners >> concessioner. Yeah. >> Um whether they want to expand beyond uh
what the base fee is or or not. >> Did you have anything you wanted to say? Now other than you know that has been the model that we sort of have been exploring and it may wind up being the model or we may come back and you know say well you know further review we're going to go in a different direction. Um
I sort of recall when we started with the hold shared services for the quarter administrator we we did we got in the weeds um quite a bit and found that when we uh surfaced again it was easier for us to be able to promote it in that way. So, I think that this is has been a very
a couple of really good conversations about understanding um the parcels as Martin has said as well as the what the the square footage is and the services that are on there um to make sure that we truly understand the value of what the concessioners are
are getting and how it's being used. Um, so, >> so, uh, just a question I have on that is, do they have to report to us their income for the year? Do we see any financials or is this all private?
>> So, up until this point in time, um, Mike, we that's not something that's shared. It's, um, they bid on, um, the lot, the parcel, uh, and provide what services they're going to put in that location.
how much they charge to the public and how much their income is and how much their payroll is or any other operating expenses has not been part of the discussion in the past. Um >> Paul, did you have something to add? >> Yeah, because I'm trying to think how we
would introduce that >> and and and that that that's where the lights because each especially I guess let's talk about retail separate from hotels. So from a hotel perspective, a lot of them don't
charge. It's like a it's just an amenity to their to to their room. You know, as much as they would offer coffee service in in the in the lobby, you know, you get >> you get you get an umbrella and two umbrellas as I
>> don't think it's a matter of trying to control it. I think it's a knowledge perspect. And we we we did actually in the >> say bid though I I >> they're they're free to do what they want. Right. >> That's what I'm saying. >> But I think what we did was we we we looked at how are each of the different
zones utilized because you look at some zones like I'll say on the retail zones sometimes there's a lot of I'll say fixed cabanas. A lot of them at least have a small concession stand. Some of them have
maybe a more elaborate concession stand. You know, sometimes it's just two people underneath an umbrella and they're and they're servicing >> control the size of concession stands. >> Yeah. But but and and but also the number of beach boxes Yeah. >> that each beach has if you go down the
beach, you know, down by the cove there's a couple blocks that have 40 or 50 beach boxes at one location. Now granted, it all may be within one zone, but within that zone, there could be 70 or 100 beach boxes, but down further in
another retail zone, maybe the same square footage size, they may only have 20. So, it's you know, obviously a lot of that is market driven. So, we h I mean, you can I'll say in the retail zones, you can go online and and >> minimum bids. >> We set the minimum bids.
>> We set the minimum bids. They should always be a lot higher than they were last year. >> Well, and but that's what we looked at. >> I don't know about a lot, but it should be >> and that's what we tried to look at how they're how each of the different zones are utilized. You know, how many beach because we, you know, it's it's kind of
avail to see what a beach box is is charged for a season. You can see what, you know, a rental for one of those I'll say physical cabanas are used. Now, the cabanas, some are used more than others. In my mind, it's like the tax assessor
goes around this part of town or this street, you know, is more >> and I think that's the exercise >> the same way along the beachfront in my mind any >> but we we have a partnership with those hotels as a city, right? Or and with
those concessionires they those services make Cape May more attractive that leads to additional 3% um occupancy fees that the city gets. that leads that leads to the that leads to to additional parking that leads to the restaurants doing more
business. >> But um so so to come through and say, "Well, we're just we we know that they're getting a bargain. We're just going to double them or triple them." Um >> I just say that. >> I'm just I'm just saying. But what we did do, Mike, was that we found out how much >> does a beach box cost and therefore in
setting our fee is the fee that proposed fee is the fee that we're expecting thinking to charge reasonable or not? Once we knew how much they were charging, that helped us to understand what kind of profit they're showing. >> And and that my point is that when you do have 50 boxes at 800 a box, you're
talking about a $40,000 uh and that's not $40,000 and you know, you build one of those boxes for about, you know, >> 20 bucks. >> 20 years ago, >> but yeah, but plywood's more expensive. Well, let me tell you, they're crap. I
rented them for many, many years. But >> but but but I my point is my point is, you know, no more than Look, I love that everybody's making money. I'm I'm assuming that we're competitively bidding this stuff out that we don't
keep giving it to the same people over and over again. I know that it's got to be part of the discussion here. >> Yeah. Um but I and again all I was suggesting was that um look there's there is such a thing you know lease leases can be set on a percentage of
revenue. Now you the problem for the hotel I understand that but there are other things you can do for the hotel and I'm I was just asking asking out of curiosity it's all been considered >> stepwise we're heading in the in the right direction the the approach that
the city manager has come up with I expect will lead to additional revenue for the city you know but that is determined on a very fair objective basis it's not because nobody knows how the fees got set right But so, you know, there's that, but then it's it's up to
each concessionaire to decide what services do they want to offer. If the price is too high, offer fewer boxes. If the price is is too high, offer more boxes. That's up to you as a business person to decide how to do that. And and I would say from a boxes standpoint, I
think boxes are probably a thing the city would want to encourage because for every box that's down there, that's probably one less car that's looking for parking closer to the beach because >> if because then that person can either walk or ride their bike to the beach and doesn't don't have to worry about,
>> you know, transporting their stuff, you know, from a further away location to get to the beach. So, it is it has a I think it does have a benefit, >> right, >> to have boxes on the beach because it's >> they're they're great. I mean, they were they were family saver. Um, for sure for
us. Two families fit in one box. You know, we >> lots lots of chairs in >> I guess they were young that Mike, the two families go together. >> But yeah, no, they're they're uh extremely valuable. love just getting on
the bike riding down with a a bag for food. And >> so the t the timing is that we expect to have something more concrete to consider as a committee in the in December u with the with the um uh the bidding process occurring in early 2026.
>> Right. >> Any other questions or comments? >> I was just going to say I would like us to encourage us to look at either a the the behavior we're trying to encourage. Are we trying to encourage more or less of one thing or the other and and the
price would be set, you know, based on that? And the second thing is, is there a cost to the city for some of these things that we should be recognizing? And I I I don't know that there is >> going actually sand could be going up because
as you saw, the federal government did not propose any additional or no funding for beach replenishment. So, you know, sand could be going up exponentially if the city if the federal government's not going to pay their 75% of the toll share and that then you because we're only
paying like 15% of the 25% um we could be having to pay 25% of the whole if it's a state and federal I mean a fate state and local project. So, you know, I think when we say sand hasn't
gone up, sand does go up because even from year to year, you know, the cost of a beachfill goes up. So that, you know, you know, you could consider that's another revenue that we use to help fund activities on the beach.
>> Okay. So, thank you. Uh, thanks again, Paul. Appreciate it. Um once again progress being made and uh additional report out it will be coming up. Uh another topic we discussed at the last meeting was um we we discussed the fact
that the um we had a briefing about the um I'm sorry I'm looking for a piece of paper that is escaping me. You sent it out. >> No,
the um apologize. It's not there. Nope. The um topic of of the reevaluation and re and reassessment. One of the things that we came up with was uh there were some questions that we couldn't answer
about uh whether a city can only be ordered by the county to do a reassessment or not. And um I had done some research that I have here somewhere. >> There it is. >> Apologies.
through the through the beauty of AI. I asked chat GPT whether a city is allowed to a municipality is allowed to increase their to do to do a revaluation without being ordered to. And I found out that there are some uh there are laws
specific to that. Um and it said that uh a mun in New Jersey law a municipality can voluntarily elect to conduct a property tax revaluation again meaning the definition the distinction between a reassessment which is what North Wildwood is doing and a revaluation uh
which is when you're doing the full all of your ratables by an outside party. Um a city doesn't have to be ordered to do that. They can volunteer to do that but there are certain restrictions. One is that they the the the the firm being used as we had discussed at the last
meeting that there were only two has to be vetted. It has to be someone that is seen as being qualified. And then two um it requires that the um that the municipality obtain approval from the director of the division of taxation.
So, um, while I don't I'm not suggesting that the city is going to step forward and want to do a reevaluation, the municipalities under New Jersey law can. So, that was the that that answers the question that came up that we couldn't
answer the last time of whether it was allowable. >> Awesome. >> So, we should think about whether there's any reason make a recommendation as to one way or the other, but it's not intuitive to me as to why.
Well, um, so in in a conversation that I had since that last meeting with with the city manager, one of the reasons that we potentially would want to step forward and not wait for the county to tell us is if we see the other towns that we share a school district with
doing something differently than what we are and if we don't do something, could that potentially place us at a disadvantage relative to those other townships? >> Okay. So, um, that would be a reason why we may want to say, "Hey, let's hasten
the process as opposed to waiting until it is October now." So, apparently, that was what the article said. The county was going to gather this information and then let towns know. >> I don't see any reason to think that Cape May is going to be the the first
town that would be picked out of the entire state. Okay? because um since the property since the school taxes are based upon the the fair market value, it's already built into how they get paid. It's a matter of how we are
distributing the the burden, the tax burden among our 4,100 ratable properties. >> Questions? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I don't think the percentage will change that much. I mean, as far as the money gone out,
>> that's why um there there probably are towns where the market value of properties isn't quite as well known. I mean, our properties turn over so much, it's pretty easy to get a gauge on what the rate what the what the property is worth. >> True value. >> Correct. Right. Right.
>> Um one item of new business. Um there is some thought being put into whether the uh the current off- streetet parking permit process is
up to date or not and specifically um whether you were had prior knowledge or not. You can rent a if you don't have a driveway, you can rent a space uh on a parking space on the street as a as a as a
residential property. This is not for commercial properties. So, a residential property if they don't have the ability to have off- streetet parking can rent a space. Um I what I've just distributed is the agreement that goes along with that. And you can see that there is a
number in there under number under under number eight of $350 per permit. >> When was that last changed? >> So that's a good question. Um these forms are never dated, so we don't really know, but it's been >> that's what I'm saying. That that's a that figure has been around a long time.
>> Y right now. It does also say it shall be recalculated annually, but it hasn't been recalculated. >> $350. Correct. >> So, um I I would say that um
>> what I'd like to be able to discuss today is okay relative to that 350 um what would we see as a committee as being a reasonable um um recognition of how much the space has
probably um increased in value over the course of >> the way I would think is once we get to that level then we put in a kicker that it cost of living index and follow that, right? >> And that way you can't get hurt too bad, >> right? You you know,
>> we we've been getting hurt on this thing for years. >> Is it that or is there some relationship between the the meter revenue that we get from Park Mobile or whatever the the value of the space is perceived. >> This is way below that. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. So I'm not saying it has to be exactly the same,
but is there a relationship as we as we >> I think the reason there is because these are our residents. >> You know, we can't just, >> you know, park value that the tourists would. >> No, I didn't mean to say it'd be the
park mobile value. My my my suggestion was that the relationship if if we see that that over over the years either we raise our parking rates or it increases 10% what we get from park mobile then we would increase this 10%. >> So not yeah I got I got it
>> one point of distinction not all of these spots are metered there is a blend of metered and non-metered. So that's the first thing to to recognize. The second thing is we have uh always targeted numbers for um
but really putting something based on an average you know revenue um is probably not not exacting of a science. And to the third point that a number of these spots the majority of these spots are residents. So to keep that in mind as
your >> Well, they're all residents. It has to be a resident. >> Well, yeah. And they only get one spot per right >> house. Yeah. So maybe I'm not >> No, I think Martin it we want to clarify >> have a driveway you can't get one of these spots. >> Yeah. And I and you can only get one and and Martin it's a property owner not a
resident at present. There's a distinction. >> Yeah. And I'm not sure I understand. >> The current the current regula the current agreement says the property may be owner or tenant occupied. So if it's a rental a full a long-term rental it
wouldn't be the owner. would be the tenant that would be getting would be getting the permit >> and it would have to be longterm because the license number there's one license number that is allowed to use that spot >> for the duration >> for the duration. So, you know, you
can't have family come down and hey, go ahead and use my spot unless you unless you swap tags. It's got to be the same tag number. >> Someone has two cars. You're saying that you it's only the four tourists that gets to park. So, this this actually says that it's a parking permit that is
hung from the rear mirror of the vehicle. So, that may be the the understanding, but it is not that the that the um police department has to look up your license plate number. There has to be a sticker, a tag in the car, which could be changed from car to car,
but I understand your point about >> unless it's the license number of the vehicle that it's supposed to be. >> I don't because I >> I don't think it's the license plate number. Well, it is >> I remember going through this with the problem
property on Beach Avenue. >> Um quite a problem and the the uh owner of the property complaining about the issue. Um so it was clearly, you know, it was a license number. However, I don't know.
But >> I can guarantee you that probably only half if half of the police department even understands this. >> Probably not. >> It's >> I guess I just wanted to go back to what you had suggested which is >> they don't have time to I mean
>> my thought was if the average parking spot I don't make up enough if the average parking spot generates >> $5,000 in revenue a year >> then we would set this at 10% of that whatever. So, I'm not suggesting that this that we that we be at $5,000. I'm
just saying some relationship. >> I just want to provide clarity and and so we have been asked to make a recommendation on the fee. The other pieces of this are being evaluated um by members of council. >> Okay.
>> Okay. So, it's really what um fee would you want to associate with um this um permit? >> Yeah. I I just a a point of clarity too, Bob, is that um another reason for there
being the license plate numbers because what's to stop that person from selling that space, renting that space, using that space, you know, to other people on a regular basis. >> So, Mike, what I'm hearing is that >> you don't enforce that. Well, I think
you only enforce it by having one. >> What what I'm hearing is that you we would include in our recommendation that the city continue the practice of collecting a license plate and making model of a car. >> Right. >> Okay. For permit purposes to prevent the transfer of license to another party.
>> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Um and then we we've always had MTH has always made recommendations that these all of these fees should be subject to cost of living increases bianually. Yeah. >> Um, obviously this one we while the city
has been permitted to has. So I think we need to re-emphasize that point. >> Do we know I mean has it been 10 years or one year or 20 years or >> Yes. I'll bet it's been at least I >> I would say that it's most likely somewhere greater than five plus years, Ron. So
>> and how any idea how many of these we have? >> Well, the people that sell the should how long it's been. >> Yeah. >> Somebody somebody in the city should know. And you can drive around town >> 100 of them or we have >> no we have less than 100. We have less than 70. The other thing is um just to
recall this has been on the list for this committee along with several others that we've worked through including the merkantile fees, development fees. We've gone through a number of the fees that have been updated. So this is represents a very small number um and um and hadn't
been looked at and has been um is currently the the entire uh ordinance is being evaluated and we were specifically asked to just take a look at the the fees and make a recommendation so that when this is presented which it will be
>> um you know the recommendation from this committee would be uh considered. The other point that I think did just come up is um while some of these may be metered spots and therefore the city is losing revenue, most of them probably aren't.
Okay, most of them are probably in non-metered spots. As I walk run through town, that's generally speaking, you see there's there's often there's a sign. There often is a cone that is chained to the curb. Okay. So, you it's pretty
obvious where these spots are as you as you go about the town. Um, but I I do think that it does make sense that if it is a if you're in a part of the city that has a metered spot, um, we could as a committee recommend that there be a different fee for a
metered spot than a non-metered spot. >> Well, yeah, because I I mean, I think some recognition of the value of that spot. Mhm. >> Um >> so just to give us something to chew on, um I I'm just going to throw out that I would think that um $500 for the regular
spot if it's been 350 for at least 10 years >> wouldn't be unreasonable. Okay. And then 750 for a metered spot. >> Oh, I don't know. >> So what I see that 350 for a seasonal and 500 for a yearly. Do we have any sense for what um how many of these are
>> we get into a war now? >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Are are uh that we have do we have any facts? I it's fine if we don't. I'm just curious if we >> I I only have the total number and the number that are um I would say um I did look I'm sorry I did look at some
numbers Ron and so I'm doing this from memory. I would say maybe a third of them might be the seasonal ones but please don't hold me to it. just order. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and yeah, it's >> less than 100 and you think a third of them might be >> Yeah. It's less than 70 at present. >> So essentially then today it really is
500 is what you think for the majority of them if only a third are seasonal. >> Yes. I that's what I would I would say. Yeah. >> So we're saying a 50% increase. >> Is that what you're saying, Martin? >> For which one? >> Well, for any of
>> Are you saying are you are you going to distinguish between seasonal? Are you going to distinguish between metered and non-metered? >> Yeah, that would be a question. >> So that would be my first question to you. >> Wait, are we clear on are we going to have two different prices now? >> Are you well?
>> So it's not it's >> we can make a recommendation. We're an advisory committee. So all we would do is say that well you if we feel as if it would be a simpler process. I mean basically if it's a resident um or somebody that is living or a tenant it's they're using it year round. I think I
think the reason that they have this set up is was because in the offseason we don't >> no one cares. >> No one cares less. >> Okay. Um so if we feel as if it's more equitable and easier if it just be a yearly process, we can make that
recommendation. >> I think it would be simpler. >> Do I mean don't we put signs up? >> Yes, signs do go up. take the signs down if it's for the seasonal and then back up in the >> but there are some streets so there are
some streets that are non-metered and are full of people who live there right so this person wants their parking spot on that street so I would I would ask if we could do this with metered and non-metered
>> fee recommendation >> because there the other pieces of this ordinance are being worked on by other members of the council. So, and that was specifically what we were asked to >> No. So, you're saying uh so we're we're asked to recommend rates and today
there's a rate for a yearly and a rate for a seasonal and in reality I would by what we're saying I think I'm hearing >> we're just having an annual permit. Yeah, I think >> so that so from a from a >> say on here, but that's >> that's but that's how we currently do it
>> which we the rest of this ordinance is being worked on. That's why I keep >> that's why so say the request is we're looking at the we're asking you the recommendation about the fees. We're looking we're recommending a fee for a resident
>> in the nonmetered area and a resident in the metered area and it's a and it's a yearly fee. Y >> we've we figured out the how we're going to manage it and and the other piece of it. We got a good handle on how the issue
>> and and if you have a short-term rental license, you're not eligible for this permit. >> I think that's fair. >> We're right now we have a the batch of them that have it. So that's what we're trying to >> The issue that I see Paul is that if you have been doing this on a seasonal basis
paying 350 for the last 10 years and now we say it's 600. That's a big increase to that to that individual resident. >> I I think it's fair. >> I think you're you're >> but but they're going to have but they're going to have their parking spot >> guaranteed
>> guaranteed 365 days a year. >> The only reason they paid 350 is is because they said I can get it all year by only paying 350 anyway because their spot their sign is still there. >> Sure. But still saying I don't I don't have to fight for a spot in from you know after the season.
>> In previous years we would take the sign down at the end of the season and then have to and and and this is why we were trying to change the ordinance to an annual because it became a logistical nightmare for the clerk's office and the public works that at the end of the season public works would go take all
the signs down and then it became a discussion point of now I've got a sign I mean a sign post with no sign. So then then prior administration said okay now pull the post out >> and then it became an issue. Okay.
>> When you know they the season starts here, are you haven't paid yet and and then it's a then I had to call n 811 for mark out to put the signpost out there and then the person comes in two days before the thing and they want their
sign up day one but I have to wait 10 days for markout and I'm wrangling with public works to get it in there. So that's why we're changing I I will go back to this please again. This ordinance in draft form has been worked on by other members
of council and what this committee was only asked to do was make a recommendation on fees. >> We got the rest of it >> the rest of it and we haven't introduced that. So I with all due respect >> so the recommendation you're asking for is is not a yearly or seasonal but it's
a meter or non-meter is what you're saying. >> That is correct. An annual metered or non-metered >> I say 600 and 800. Okay. So the >> coverage were never um >> the issue is the issue is >> possibility because then they didn't renew that's a 70% increase over what they're paying now.
>> So so where I where I have less I I >> we can make a recommendation but we don't have to be voted in. >> No no I and the only you're right it is it is a real significant um going to pass that. If they are they're crazy they don't want to be on council
very long. I I guess my what I would encourage us to think about is it hasn't gone up for 10 years. >> So if it had gone up $20 a year, it would be to that now. >> So Ron, you hit it right on the head. When we did this with merkantile fees, when you looked at the percentages, it
was 42%. But what the actual dollar amount was nickels and dimes. Okay. So I I I get that it's about, you know, it seems like it's very high. I'm not necessarily from where it is, but it's been there for a very long and protracted period of time. This is a
convenience factor in many ways for areas that are don't have parking available. Um, or it's right in front of your house, etc., etc. Um, you can make a recommendation on keeping it at 350. That could be your recommendation. You
could make a recommendation. >> It's really 500 today, though, is what I think I heard. Not for some not for some people. Okay. So, let me let me propose this a different way. Okay. >> There is a step change here of eliminating this the seasonal. >> Okay. That is additional re revenue for
the city. >> Just just right. So, Marian's estimate was a third of the current ones are seasonal. >> Right. >> My concern is in terms of MTRA making an a recommendation. I have a hard time
wrapping my head around hitting that third with a 70% increase. So going from 350 to 500 is a is a 43% increase. That's already pretty substantial. >> I think that's fair price. >> Stepwise, we could go we could say we're
eliminating the seasonal. >> Okay, >> we're keeping the yearly at 500, but we're adding a bianial escalator and we're going to charge more if it's a metered spot. Okay. To me, that's a bit more balanced
than than saying one-third of these 70 people. It's not a lot of people, but you know, when we did raise the merkantile fees or proposed raising the merkantile fees for the businesses, they didn't get up to the to the podium during city council and say it was a $15 increase. They said it was
a 42% increase. >> Yeah. Listen, I I mean, the reality is if if there's truly as few of these as we're talking about, we're talking about $5,000 to the city in total, right? Raising from 350 to 500 for a third of
for for for 20 of them, right? Is uh what's 20 times 150, but it's $3,000. I don't know that it's worth our time, honestly, or the time of the council for a >> for a $3,000 in revenue for the year. I mean, a metered spot get can get
anywhere between 2,000 to $5,000 >> per spot. >> Per spot, >> right? >> Yeah. So, I guess I don't You're right, Martin. That would be a significant increase. I guess I >> I think the is going to be about the people that live in the metered
area. They're going to say, "Look, you know, I've lived here for, I don't know, 10 years, 20 years, maybe three years." >> Yes. >> And this is where I live. I can't help it because the stupid city put a meter in front of my house. That's that's the
you're going to get. You'll have a war. Believe me, >> I I given the fact that the meters go off at a certain point in time. Um I I >> I understand. Not I'm not so sure that you know I mean if it's set in stone that we're going to a yearly fee.
>> Um >> I would I would want to suggest I would suggest that we keep the yearly fee at the 500 and then add the metered fee. >> Well, it's all right. >> That's just me. So push back. >> Yeah. I guess I I would just if if the
numbers and again it's facts are our friends and we don't really have the facts but if we make the assumption that there are twothirds of these are are yearly now and they've paid $500 a year for many many years. And then what we're
saying as a recommendation is they're going to continue to pay the same $500 a year. Again, it's not a significant enough amount of money in total to even move the needle on the city's finances. So, it's probably more emotional. >> Correct. And it is. >> It is. It is absolutely. And it only
needs one person >> get that brings that emotional argument forward >> and it's a kettle of fish. >> Okay. It's not about the economics. It's about what's fair and what is the what is the the proper process to go through. >> And even the people that aren't even
involved in it will be like that's that's terrible they're doing that to those people. That's the way it goes. >> So >> So what is the recommendation? >> So Rod, you feel you feel strongly you feel strongly about 600 and 800 750?
Well, I I don't I I randomly threw those numbers out as some some increase for all >> and I would I would suggest that >> I would suggest we do this stepwise, but then >> that's make the strength of the recommendation be every other year it goes up.
>> I so that's >> I would make >> I can live with leaving it alone and it goes up every year by $25 a year or 50 or something. I would say that keep in mind that that becomes you know it it does create a operational challenge
because they have to increase these fees both an SDL and then in admins there's a lot of maintenance that goes on this is all manual that gets done it's not automatic we don't have an SDL or you know person on you know staff so I like the every other year it's consistent with what we've been doing from an
analysis standpoint whatever baseline fee you want to make a recommendation for that's really where we need to have the start. Um, we have been, um, you know, we sit with Eron, we talk about these things, we know what the schedule is, so we just include this in the schedule for analysis. But I would, I
would advocate by the time we change the ordinance on this and get the paperwork out, we got to turn around and start doing it again. >> $25 every other year is two and a half%. >> This is on what happened. Are we're not doing a jump is what you're saying.
>> Well, so just 25 a year. Martin proposed 500. I said 600 for uh non-metered, 800 for metered. I am not passionate about I I'm throwing a number out. >> You're going to die. >> I I'm sorry. >> Not the hill you're going to die. >> No.
>> My favorite $5,000 a year for the whole city. >> So >> I I think you need I think you look I don't care if it's only $25,000. I'm sorry. you know, there a lot of these spaces.
I forgot that we're on mic here. Sorry. I hate to say stuff like this, but they're sitting in front of $4 million homes. Um, and I think it's uh it's a nice feature that we in fact give private parking, which I get irritated
at when I'm trying to find a parking space, but okay. Um, I understand and I would want to have it, too. But I I think you know the 375 going to 500 is I think very reasonable. And for if I were
a council person I might say 75 first year 75 the second year we're at we're at $500 and then after that it's going up >> some amount >> 25 or $50 a year. >> Explain a little further. What's the 75?
I'm just raising the rate. The first I'm I'm I'm doing the the baby steps for people that absolutely can't >> fathom a 65% increase. Yep. >> That they lose their
>> minds over over that. >> Yep. >> I mean, it's a you know >> What do I think? >> Yeah. What do you think? >> I I think we should just look we tell the people it's $500. So, I don't think that's bad for a whole year
>> to It's right in front of the house. >> I mean, I don't know what I would do if we didn't have our driveway. >> You know what I mean? >> You'd be getting your steps in. >> Huh? >> You'd be getting your steps in. >> Well, remembering that argument that
occurred at city council again, that was a multi-million dollar house and they were apoplelectic over the $350. >> Absolutely. >> And you know what? for that 350 million or whatever the heck it is. They're paying taxes on that. So, a lot more.
>> Well, this was actually the daughter and she's not. >> Oh, okay. >> But, >> okay. >> But they bought a but they bought a house that had no parking. >> We just settled. >> That's exactly right. >> They bought a house with no parking with no parking and in a one of the worst places you could possibly pick.
>> What do we have on the table, John? So, we have five, we have 425, 500, and 600. >> Okay. >> Oh, that's pretty good. I like that. >> Year one, >> but then you'd have to have you'd still
have to have a seasonal because >> now can I not season? I wouldn't. >> No seasonal. Yeah, I would. >> Right. So, what I'm saying is what I'm saying is the 425 doesn't work because who gets charged 425? Who gets charged 500? >> We will determine that, Martin. That is under council.
>> Yeah, you're just worrying about metered or not metered. >> No, what I'm saying that's all you're worrying about. >> I'm trying to I'm reacting to Mike's proposal which is well thought of going in a stepwise way for the people that have a seasonal, but that would mean continuing the seasonal. So, it sounds
to me like that's not that's a non-starter. >> No seasonal. >> Okay. So, it's so the 425 is not practical relative to what the city is looking to do. So, now we're down to 500 or 600. I'm happy to go either way. I'm just too anticipating the 600 is likely
to get that larger emotional reaction and it is worth the calories. >> I would say so >> 500 annual metered non-metered or it doesn't make a difference. >> Are we okay with the 500 metered? Uh non-metered.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. I and then you know I I personally I think you should just keep it $500 for everybody metered or non-metered because >> are you okay with an escalator? >> You're going to get that? Oh yeah, sure. >> Okay. Okay. >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. >> However you get that
>> metered non-metered and the escalator would be >> well >> $25 every two every other year >> or or >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Okay. But as long as there's a there's a way you can make sure the city does put that 25 in every other year.
>> Well, again, we we are only advising, right? We're giving an opinion. It's up to the city to decide whether to implement or not. >> You know, I don't know who >> if if that's written into the ordinance, then you can write that in the ordinance. >> We can write that into the ordinance department. If that's >> So, who follows through on those ordinances? >> A city clerk
>> and council also reviews them. >> That's good if they do. So we're this is an extraordinarily modest increase >> for the majority the far majority we're saying still have no increase >> and they're going to they're going to
>> but keep in mind Ron to your point >> this is a very small number it is >> okay so I I wouldn't get ourselves too exercised about the fact it is not going to be a game chang so so I'm just going to give you the point of view from two C because Meen
was not one of the council pe there was two other council people that sat on the the subcommittee to develop this ordinance and one of the pointed discussion points were that they would routinely go by a especially in the metered zone those
spots not being occupied and and I'm not talking about the seasonal ones I'm talking about year- round resident ones and they would not be occupied continuously especially in the metered zones because they they because because even though that that was they don't
rent that out and they don't have a mercantile license, they're not there all the time. So there's a lot of >> revenue lost from a parking meter in an empty spot and so you have people continuously driving by an empty you they're searching for a spot they can't
find one but they keep seeing this empty spot that's there all the time. So I'm so that's two council people's perspective of so I would I would really recommend that you you provide a recommendation for a fee point but they have paid for that right
>> exactly >> I'm just I'm just I'm just letting you know from that because Marine wasn't at those sub >> no I wasn't but I will say to you you're making a recommendation please know and Martin you understand this they may say
thank you for the input We respect your opinion on that number. Um, but we've made a decision to dist and they have to >> but even if we charge $750 for that spot, that's still going to happen and that revenue is still going to get lost. It's it's, you know, if it's between
2,000 and $5,000, an extra $250 >> doesn't So, and that will be up to them to make that argument. So, >> why are the spaces metered? >> Okay. >> What? Well, they because >> Congress Street there's plenty of metered stores. >> Jackson Street.
>> I mean, but there but we sold the street to somebody. They're private spaces. Why do they have a meter >> meter on it? Okay. Well, no, the street the street has a meter. You go down the street, there's >> there's there's five meters. >> Talking about a metered zone.
>> There space a resident space in a metered zone. >> In a meter zone. Yes. Yes. There's no meter at that because >> we pull the meter out and put a we put the sign there. >> Okay. >> Make the recommendation. >> So, we I think we're all clear that this is simply our recommendation. The city
is free to do as they choose if they're dump. No, didn't say that. Um the um and the recommendation is that we go to $500 for 2026 and in 2028 it goes to 525. >> Y
>> that's fine with me. Sure. And so you you'll send that Martin to Erin and then when this is um it will be passed along to the two council members who have been working. >> I'll include in that the a significant consideration was the elimination of the
seasonal fee and the percentage increase for those seasonal fee holders that have been doing this for quite some time >> and every two years we increase >> goes by 25. Right. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you for your uh for a robust discussion. Oh boy, we're gonna get
>> solving the world. >> Um, okay. As as I have um chosen to do what and I'll continue to do, I I'd like to hear from each of you. What is on your minds? What have you thought about as you've gone through your daily non-endra lives that um you might want
to talk about? >> Uh yeah. So, so for me I I continue to think about the um the relationship the well two two things. One is what kind of over our our overall
mission is uh because I I think it's not necessarily to go find different ways to get more money out of some of the same businesses that have continued to pay uh more money. So I want to be sensitive to
uh that. Um I I don't feel like that should be our mission. I feel like it should be finding alternative sources of revenue but not necessarily from uh you know the businesses that are that are uh so vital to this uh to this city.
Um, and and I'd also say I I'd really like to understand better the relationship between our cost as a city on some of these things and and the revenue that we get as part of that. And I think some of that may be it's all there and I just don't know it. Uh, you
know, and there's others that that I'm not sure. I I appreciate the discussion on as much as it's in the details allocating fuel to different departments because the people who can manage fuel consumption have to have to have responsibility for that. So that that's what I mean by allocating the um you
know the costs appropriately and then if there are ways to generate revenue in alternative ways that um that are tied to uh to the cost of city services or or some other thing uh that the cost that the city in incurs
um you know I'm I'm all about that. So I I don't have a specific uh idea on that but that's what I that's what's going through my mind. >> Okay. I I I think that you you've expressed opinions along these lines in the past.
This one I think is actually a crisper is more clearly articulated. Okay. >> That we need to start putting energy into finding new forms of revenue, not just increasing the the fees, hitting the same people for the same services
over and over again. >> That's right. >> Okay. I I'm I'm happy to put that into the notes and we'll put something in make sure that it's in the minutes that we see that as being you know a large part of our mission going forward is to innovate to try to be not just go to the
same well and and keep banging in that same drum. >> Okay. >> Any others? >> I I see something on your mind. >> Yeah. Well, I mean it's uh it's an extremely broad and complex problem, but
personally I think I think that uh we should at some point in time try to understand what the capacity of this city is. >> I think are you talking about the number
of people driving over the bridge >> gawatt that we >> Yes. >> Okay. No bell up. >> The number of people coming into this town. >> Yeah. >> Um for you know I I say at times we've already exceeded that capacity and we're >> we're um you know we're not handling it
well. Um and you you're shaking your head and this is what I get from a certain manager that I'm aware of that says no. um you know uh we have a we have a uh I'm going to say it's a a club
or whatever and um we've limited the number of members because there's what happens is the the real truth is is that the members of the club that are there when you bring more people in the
existing members really start to suffer because um we we Yeah, we generate more revenue. Thank there we go. We got all this new revenue coming in, but um service starts to slip. Uh quality
starts to slip. >> Infrastructure has to be invested in beyond. >> Yes. Everything starts starts affecting >> the people that started the club or have belonged to the club for a long time. And the the real answer is is there's
got to be a cap. Now we never most of the time we don't exceed we we've got plenty of room but it's for a limited number of time um we are out of control we can't handle it and I'm
telling you >> number of people or number of vehicles or what >> it's a combination of both I think >> I think well vehicles it's people it's definitely people uh vehicles you know people have to figure that out but Um,
in a way it is vehicles because you start talking about building parking garages and and I say, >> why are you building parking garages to bring more people into what I think is a city that can't handle those people?
Now, what do I mean by can't handle those people? Um, it may be, you know, the ability to get a reservation at a restaurant. It may be the ability to sit comfortably on on
certain beaches on certain days. Um, and of course, parking does have well, >> uh, just driving around, you know, it's >> you can't drive around. >> It's very difficult to drive around. You may look, there's parking in this town for sure, but I'm just saying that
things are uncomfortable. Let's say that we grow 10% next year. What have we done differently in this town um to handle that extra 10%? And um >> we haven't changed the the
infrastructure of the roads. We haven't changed the infrastructure from transportation. What we've done is expand uh development of homes. Um we've have an attractive place to come. We have good restaurants. We have art culture. We're just not another beach
town. So I take the comments that um Mike's saying and I you know sort of line them up against how health care works. Health care stop you know at a certain point you're on diversion. Okay you can't take another p patient in. You don't have the capacity to be able to
care for that patient. Then you are housing them with what we used to call in the ER. That's not good quality care. That's not good for the people who are trying to take care of that patient. It's not good for the doctors or the nurses. It's not good for the EKG texts and it's not good for people who are on
the other the receiving end. So I you know I sort of use that as um you know a parallel because when we you managed it you managed it you know my responsibility at one point in my career was a running an ER and and the entire hospital operations when I had to go and
divert as a trauma center I had to send patients to other hospitals. Now, you know, obviously that doesn't happen here, but it does say how many more people can come over the bridge, you know, and where are you going to put them when they get here, >> right? >> And we see a lot more day trippers.
>> And what's their experience when they come over the bridge? >> Yeah. >> Um, you know, how many leave extremely disturbed and disappointed. You know, that's the kind of thing. No, I think it's a good question, but I think we I
don't know that we we we don't really know that. >> Well, because more people might have I think >> that's what I think they do as well. >> I I agree with you. I definitely agree with you. And and I think that, you know, when I talk about the club, I'm
going to tell you that it's probably only three or four nights a year that it happens. But I'm telling you, the impact is tremendous. No, it's more it's taking a good 40 minutes to get off the island on on a summer afternoon
>> easily. Easily. It's it's insane >> on both sides. >> Um I have turned around. I you know I have absolutely turned around after trying both bridges and said I can't get out of this town. >> So So those people that came in for the
day especially may not come back because of how long it took them to get out and that but that's >> they come back. that are willing to come in. >> That's that and and I do believe that is what has spread out our our summer into the into the fall. >> Sure.
>> My daughter says the island's going to sink when she's when she says all these people >> say and the clear the clearest example was for the Fourth of July night. >> Yeah. >> I I my understanding was that it was still Broadway was completely backed up
at 11:30 and the the fireworks ended at 10. But Fourth of July, that's that's everywhere. If you come into Ocean City for Fourth of July, it'll take you an hour, hour and a half to leave >> the island. So that's not that's typical
of that. And you know, and that's same thing with a parking garage. Do you build something for 5% of the occurrences that we need it? You know, so that's you know, everybody talks about, you know, bad traffic and
all this, you know, other kind of stuff. the the people in I'll say northern Jersey and western Jersey and the suburbs of Philly, you know, they deal with that traffic every day, you know, I mean, think about, you know, if I wanted to to leave now and and and go to the
Poconos, it it takes you like an hour and a half to get from the Ben Franklin Bridge to King of Prussia. And guess what? We Everybody still does it. So it's so it's not, you know, it's it's heightened because of where you're
at, but think of the infrastructure that they have. >> Yeah. What what was your >> answer? What was your >> what I what I want what I'm suggesting is that um ideas that are being generated to bring
more people into this town uh have energy put someplace else. energy and dollars going in another intelligent place as opposed to bringing more people into the town. >> It does dovetail with what we are
charged with at some point in time. We're going to be asked to fund a a transportation system, right? So, if we have a better way of moving people around the island, maybe the maybe the cars aren't even coming here. Maybe they're they're staying off island and then we're bringing the people that that come >> like this have been around for a long
time. you when you think about I don't know if you listened to the city council meeting on Tuesday. >> Okay. Um Lower Township has put in a new ordinance around ebikes. And there's nothing in the ordinance. They can't countermand state law. They can't say
you need to wear a helmet when you ride an ebike. You should, but they can't tell you you have to. But it gives it makes it clearer that the police have the authority >> to give you give you a ticket. >> There's just a guy killed. But we are one of the one of the comments that was
was made is >> the people that are riding those ebikes over the bridge are the employees that come to work in the island because they can't find parking. They can't find a find a place. We're we're not necessarily going to be able to continue to use the Lafayette Street lot forever.
So these are I think these are good considerations for us to be thinking about longer term. putting it in the way that Mike has that that at some point in time the level of service that we provide to our residents, visitors, and
um workers begins to deteriorate the higher the volume of people gets. Well, Martin, I I don't want to sound like a broken record, but I've repeated this I don't how many times, even back when there was a parking committee.
After 5 or 5:30 from Philadelphia down to Peter Shields, there's all the spaces in the world. When the beaches when the beaches are on through the day, you can't get a spot there. But we don't the
city I say we the city doesn't promote those spaces in the evening and they should >> I I read an actually I read a book that's how bored I am. I read a book on parking. Okay. It was it was very interesting
the mentality of the American public. >> I know they don't want to walk. I >> I want to park where I want to park and it should be free. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And parking meters actually only exist to get the spots to turn over. That was
the reason that we have them. So I think we I live on a street three blocks away from Washington Mall. I know when it's crowded. I know when it's not. I know when it's workers. I know when it's visitors. Okay. It doesn't matter to people. they they they they they come in
and their needs aren't being met and therefore they leave with a a negative connotation of Cape May, >> right? I mean, it's no different than, you know, when everybody used to go to the mall and you'd have some people would circle the first 10 spots, waiting
for that 10 spots to go as opposed to parking out at the end and then you could walk in the and like, oh yeah, that guy's still circling and you know, so it's that same. So I would like to leave you everybody with this thought. So I was at a a a state municipal
managers meeting. So all the state managers at our at our conference and they we had one of the speakers was worked at both the state and the federal government level for different departments and and they said a lot of what we do we think of it from a diff the wrong perspective and this is what
she came up with. So you our usual discussion is reducing tax burden for taxpayers by reducing budgets, but then we're not really serving the people that we really need to serve. So the the discussion should be improve service for residents by increasing
budgets because when you really start to think about because if you're just concentrating on reducing the budget, you're not really truly looking at the true impact to what the residents are. You're just trying to find the easiest way to trim what budget the numbers are.
And then when you have different departments all just trying to trim little pieces, what's the true effect on, you know, because obviously missile government is a service industry and we're serving our residents. What service are we really doing to, you
know, really we got to examine how do we improve that process to be the most efficient for that resident. And that's why the the CAP project that's why we're doing it. We're we're not looking MTRA is not asking the city
to reduce spending. We recognize that the city we we would like to see the city increase spending and particularly in in code enforcement. We've said that many many times at these meetings, but you can't because of the budget cap. So that's why we're trying to we're putting energy into saying are there resources
within the capping process that aren't being utilized today that can allow us to expand services in the key areas. Well, you know, when I was in office, Jerry Gaffne, if he ever saw the surplus that we have now, he he would say, "Cut
the give the people a break. Cut it a half a cent if you have to." He would he would he would he would die if he knew how much. But unfortunately that cap can't be used for my operating budget. >> So Mike, I it's a good point. Thank you for thank you for raising it. I will I
think the way to to sort of put it in a different way is to say that MTRA encourages that all of the people that contribute to the city be engaged in long-term planning around ensuring that the experience that the people have
continues to be enjoyable. I >> well I I do think that more enforcement out there on the different >> so we can we can finish on that note. Um I I wanted to let everyone know that there actually was more enforcement in
the month of August. Uh there were special duties that were done uh special patrols of the mall and the prominade between 8:00 am and 12 pm for the month of August um to remove bicycles and dogs where they didn't belong. And it was it
was reported yesterday at the um at the um bicycle and pedestrian safety. It was hundreds >> hundreds of people. One more person tells me how many dogs they saw on the mall and how many bikes they saw.
>> So when when when the special when the the seasonal law enforcement officers saw that >> they removed hundreds. >> That's amazing. >> And I I just saw the police chief on the on the way in and he said that's a program that will continue. So we've been asking for enforcement.
>> They listened >> and it was it was impactful and it will continue. Yeah. >> Well, listen. I I'm talking about the different ordinances, not just the dogs and bikes, although I think >> that has really >> I don't know the police department, it's
giving them a bad rep. >> That's a way to raise some money from >> but the the different ordinances out there that sign ordinances, >> it's a it's a start. Okay. The the issue that we have is that we MTRA believes that code enforcement should be expanded.
>> Yeah. Well, not just carried. >> We're not Well, but they're they're already >> We only have two. >> Well, yeah, but how how how many summones have they written up? >> I'm not talking about I'm not talking about uniformed officers. We can't get
>> No, I'm not either. I'm talking >> We can't get uniformed officers. >> I'm not talking about uniformed officers. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Well, they're not compliant. I can take you. I'll go with the ride right now. I'll drive you down the street and I'll find you I don't know how many
violations of ordinances, signed ordinances and different things. >> It was an interesting discussion. >> I just think once you enforce it more, you'll get compliance. That's my that's the way I >> I I encourage you to to listen to the uh
it was it's right around the 45 minute mark in the bicycle and pedestrian safety. was one of the the lieutenants gave a briefing on numbers behind the numbers. How many vehicles did they stop this year versus last year? How many DUIs this year versus last year? It was
it was a very good discussion. Um and yes, we shouldn't be stopping or be satisfied with just enforcing the laws around dogs. >> Is this in Kate May? Are you talking about? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um and um
the discussion at the city council meeting around ebikes that is something that is becoming a significant threat on the island and um the city is going to be looking into what they can do to give the police more power. >> I agree with you on that. >> All right. >> All right.
>> Okay. >> Thank you all. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> So move. >> So move. >> All in favor? >> Yeah. Hi. >> Thank you all. >> Thank you.