excuse me Mr Crowley Could you put your microphone on speaker microphone who will uh make a little presentation sure It's all yours Not even a presentation just a little update Um I know everybody is interested
in merkantiles specifically rentals this time of year We are thick in the middle of our renewal season Uh let me see if I can get this going here Bear with me a moment So um as of right now we've
issued just over 400 merkantiles so far Um just for a backstory we decided this year to do electronic distribution of invoices We emailed out the invoices Hello We emailed out the invoices instead of mailing them Um and
it seemed to be pretty successful I sent out a test email to everyone on February 26th and the actual uh invoices went out on March 6th So if anyone knows of anyone who did not get theirs yet please have them reach out to me because
there's no way of us knowing that Um we were a bit delayed in starting to issue them because of we had to wait until the firerevention fees went into effect on March 18th So that's when fire prevention distributed all of their
invoices So now we're really seeing that influx of those payments and schedulings going through So that's why we are now able to really crank out all of these renewals So uh my team and my office is working very hard every day getting as many issued as
possible So we mentioned at a previous council meeting that we have has have purchased or entered a contract with um Decard Technologies Inc and they offer us this rentalcape software or portal if you
will Um I don't have a whole lot to share This is just a screenshot of like the dashboard when you first log in So we are just getting off the ground with them at this point Um we are scheduling a training pretty shortly Uh but we have to wait even till after basically after
May 1st The deadline for renewals is April 30th for merkantiles so that we can provide them updated information from our SDL system So because right now they just kind of have like an overview of potential rental properties in the city They don't have all of our information because we're in the middle
of renewals So we're going to export all that data to them after um May 1st and then after that we're probably going to have to send it a few more times You know we're still cranking out renewals and then late fees in May um pretty much into June
So right now we're definitely focusing on renewals of the existing licenses and then obviously come May we're then chasing down the stragglers the people who are didn't give us this the insurance or oh the taxes aren't paid
and oh you owe a late fee and everybody yells at us Um so I'm probably thinking more towards June We're going to start realistically June uh switching more into the enforcement and compliance end of this Once we get through the bulk of
the renewals we can then switch to really diving into this new software We can dive into the spreadsheet that MTRA was gracious enough to share with us of you know PE uh properties that they have identified as non-compliant
Um we will be working with code enforcement to basically send out educational letters Oh we've been made aware that you are operating a short-term rental in the city of Cape May Please be advised you need a merkantile to do so Fire you know fire
inspection X Y and Z Rental registration Um we're taking more of that like educational like hey here's all the information Please submit this by X date And then if they continue to not do that that is another discussion that I guess
the manager and I will be having as far as we know what to do at that point Um but generally people once you make them aware of that uh they're more than likely to comply So Erin just you know one of the things uh that this company
is actually completely focused on this is a book of business Um they work with over 400 municipalities They were able to the first question right out the gate that I had was "Show me what it looks like because I need to know what zip code you're able to hone
in on." And they were able to as you can see from what Aaron is showing it's just the city of Kate May So all of that clutter that we've had before about North Kate May and zip codes and all of that is completely out of the mix um they do a nightly search and
scrubbing of over 10,000 websites um and have a team of analysts I want to say between 50 and 60 who are vetting the information um really very impressive the very the closest municipality to us that uses uses this
software platform is Atlantic City so they were able to actually show them but it's used um up in upstate New York it's used out um in Utah I mean it's used all over the country Um so and it's a very easy from an enduser standpoint to be
able to do filtering report Um it looks almost like an access database So it's just you know sort of click and and toggle and kind of a thing So um you know most of what we saw was obviously just as Erin is saying until we give them our data it you know it's it
doesn't have a a great degree of functionality now but it will once we have our our population our baseline Yeah this is kind of my question is um the is there sole role identification yes At this stage yes we we are then
taking over the compliance and enforcement end of things Um so yes right as of right now we are just utilizing them for identifying unlicensed rental property And if that's the case is this uh expected to continue in future years mhm I mean for as long
as you think that it's effective Yeah Yeah I mean there's no reason for us not to but I'll I'll from my perspective for us but obviously that would be the only reason I'm saying that is because you would think that a good portion of the work would be the first year rather than future years Well I I think you're right
with regard to the majority Um but interestingly enough I've talked to several people who've recently bought properties and had no idea Uh and so you know I think there's always that opportunity and and there's some other interesting pieces of information that we can gather from that I won't go into
it because it's early on but yeah So the other thing you have to look at so if you look a little bit on the screen if if Erin if you could zoom in just a little bit you can see the different colors So so right now you see there's the the the bluish ones They're the ones that they have verified So part of what
Meen says is they have people you know just because when they get a hit they got to try to figure out you know because if you look at a lot of Airbnbs they don't tell you where the address is on Airbnb Verbos or even some of the real estate sites So you've got to really scrub So what those analysts do they go and start taking looking at
those photos and then they start matching up photos that they can identify where the address is and you know so all the gray ones on that you see on the screen they're one those are ones that have not been verified of is that do they have a good address to be
able to identify is this 7-Eleven Washington Street or is this some other location um that's was advertised someplace but it could have been advertised but without knowing because on an Airbnb when you search for it it
does not give an address So they picked it up but they didn't know what the so so they've they've identified it and they can they've located it Uh the other one is a lot of the condo facilities they're going to be you know trying to figure out what unit number you know So we may have hey there's a rental in one
of the condo units but if it's one of the larger ones there you know there could be a hundred condo units Figuring out okay whose it is is going to take a while to figure that out So that's where it's not a complete thing That's why it
may take us some years to be able to piece it together Uh when Moren also talked about we'll we're going to give this access to the tax assessor So it's going to be a resource for the tax assessor's office to be able to verify
current conditions How do things look hey if he looks at it and says "Oh wow These this place looks a little updated compared to how we last looked at it Maybe we need to do an added assessment and and beef up the uh the uh added assessment on that property." So
there'll be other uses for this So you know when you think about will we probably keep this for years I I think that there's usefulness of what the the data they can provide us Uh there'll be tools that we'll be able to utilize I I agree I I I wasn't saying we shouldn't
just was asking the question because maybe there'd be a discount the second you No they the cost is really in other words when they came and demoed us they had they already had it They they showed you another Yeah it was really impressive They have it for other towns
cuz when they when they go out there they're searching it So they're already grabbing all that data and it's just sitting there waiting for somebody to say "Hey let's and they're not the And it's not just whether or not they're renting It's whether they have 10
bedrooms versus Well yes Russ So the information to how much people charge per night based on which month The other thing is that was interesting about it was what they said is you know a lot of times uh rentals go on and they might be on um during uh they'll put them on over
a weekend and they take them off during the week They're doing this 24/7 The other thing is they said sometimes when you're looking at things in the beginning of the season people wait till the end of the season to put their properties up or vice versa They're renting in the beginning of the season but they're not renting So this is a constant look by this company I mean
that's what the analytics are I mean it's just constantly and it's looking at over 10,000 websites So it is very diversified um and it provides a lot of data So it's very sensitive from that perspective that it's not something we want to publicly and it and it gives us
the a tool to get to a point where where we capture 100% of the rental market Absolutely Yep You're never going to capture 100% We're never going to capture 100% We're going to closer than we are now We're going to be better than what we are now But I I'm never going to
say we're going to be 100% compliant That's not real That'll be in recognition of the people who have complied with everything we've asked them to do There going to be x number of properties that are going to have to be pulled in a little bit because you're always going to have those trans like
people that buy sell transfer There's always going to be gaps in or decide if they never rent it before Now they're going to for some portion of the season or you know whatever their economic and the interface to the taxation profile is is a very important thing having spent it's a tool it's just a tool to line by
line for two years okay it's a very dynamic database meaning there's constantly properties coming in and out people change their mind properties change hands so the 40 or 50 properties a year that could fall through the cracks it's worth continuing the service
uh but Does Atlantic what does Atlantic City use them for did they get into not into enforcement though so what they do offer is a component that says that they will follow up on whether if safe identify a property Mike
and it it doesn't have a merkantile license but it's been proven to require one based on this local ordinance They will send notifications out on your behalf if you want Okay We talked about that but we it wasn't whe at this point in time since it's new to the city we
really wanted to sort of you know get the education piece out there the notification keep it inhouse Um but that's that's the to the extent um that they would do just and not beyond that Nothing beyond that They don't have enforcement personnel you know locally
doing anything because Atlantic City was the closest one and I don't think there was one again until upstate New York right upstate New York Massachusetts concentrated up in New England They're out of Boston I think Um and then they are all over the country Yeah Okay Yeah So uh that's great But I just wanted to
make a comment too that uh the city has done an excellent job of actually getting this thing up and running It's it's a great it's a great it's a thing we've always wanted to have as part of our proposal And uh there's been a lot of press on it on Facebook I don't know
if everybody goes on Facebook but uh there was a post on Facebook about Zach's presentation on the TV screen It got a lot of press and that's the thing I sent around to the committee right just for your information not to do anything about it but it it I thought that was very interesting the number of
people who actually got on board with this thing The uh Facebook post had 327 people who like what Zach was talking about And there's always going to be a lot of malcontents on Facebook I thought was what was most interesting was Martin was an allstar contributor He is an
all-star contributor to the Facebook page Martin There was actually a suggestion today that we don't need the software We should just rat on our neighbors Yeah I did see that with with a bounty on it Okay great Thanks a lot Any other questions anybody else have any questions i I just had one question How
is going off of your shoulders how's the transition to bedrooms going done really well Yeah So we um mostly have been focusing on the switching of to electronic distribution and this software So we did add um a space for
new applications for new applicants coming in to put the number of bedrooms There was no way to include that on the invoices that were already going out because it hasn't existed yet So yeah that's something that you know if if that's the city's will I can but with
but with this software they have the bedrooms there so we can we can probably do some merging of our fields License fee being based on number of bedrooms as opposed to square footage No I understand that But but this computer software because the the real estate market provides that bedroom count on
the units We can use that data in the future to populate our database and then when we re change your ordinance we can then use that data to to use as a baseline and and essentially tell them this is how many bedrooms you you're advertising that you're advertised for
This is what we're charging and then then we can start the conversation at that point So it it we didn't have to really be do have to do a hard ask because we're going to have that information on the computer right i was referring to the change over of the fee
structure itself We'll look at that task Yeah that's a future task Yes Yeah that's a crosswalk we have to do in the system And so this year getting an electronic version out to people being able to take a lot electronic payment in and the the the you know um bringing the software on board were really the
primary focus of what we wanted to do So we have had some people utilizing the online payments I mean most of them are still mailing everything in Um but we've got over $12,000 worth of online payments and just 54 payments online So people are utilizing that as an option Do you know what percentage that is of
total not not a dollar amount I just mean a total properties It's 54 out of 400 I'm not going to try to do that math on live So just by way and you're using municipe right a little over 10% There we go So just by way of comparison at my work we use the same municipe and we
made that change over two years a uh last year we soft pedal it and only a couple people paid it was the middle of the cycle we did it this year and only about 20% or so paid online and it's only $150 no matter how much you're paying so I would guessing and I think maybe KM may guess the same thing that
it'll take some time and people are just used to sending that check in every year there is a service charge some people which so people are discouraged by that but Yeah but I think it's encouraging Absolutely Some people are using it So and so far nothing too negative I mean
people are happy to have that option They're happy we're moving into 2025 slowly but surely Yeah it's a great step forward for both the safety of the people that visit the city and fairness among the property owners Yep Absolutely And really you know thank you MRA for you know doing the deep dive You know we
knew anecdotally that we had an issue but really that additional research that that you guys did really showed the the true numbers and which really was allowed us to justify the demonstrate and justify being able to get agreement
to do it So Sarah thank you for your tedious work Great Yes you will not have to do that anymore We'll get it from here guys All right M We want to make sure you get out of here on time Does anybody else have anything uh good Thanks Aaron Appreciate it It's been a pleasure Paul let me ask
you a question U can you while you're here can you give us a brief update on the pro the progress of the city budget for 2025 uh looking to have budget worksheets out to council Friday and it'll be presented
on um Tuesday on the show Okay Yep Okay that's good Thank you Yep Thanks Okay Diane come on up Hi How are you dad has not been released from the state
keep track of occupancy tax You may want to turn your mic on because a lot of what you're saying is really critically important for the public So thank you All right So that's it Just come on Get Come on Sit down Get settled in We'll start Yeah
Okay Okay Hi D Nice to meet you Dan What's I'm sorry What's the marketing director's name deborah B Ba BS Yes At dinner she heads the Can we pass this around That's pretty appropriate
Okay What she can come up too You can come up Dad Yeah Come on up Come on up Just to We're not gonna throw anything at you This is the the booklet that we gave out last year the new booklet with all the data and it will come out in May Okay
Now before we start make sure everybody knows who Diane Wland is She's the the genius behind everything that goes on in related to tourism in Cape May County and you're a total resource with this county You've been great You've been great so far 50 years 50 years 50 years
in last July Oh my god Apparently no child labor laws and we do appreciate you coming down This is I think it's your third visit with us over time So and I like to get people to understand and know what we do and
what I say issues are out there that we can all work together to address And so if you have any questions you want to start with me that's fine If not I wanted to explain occupancy tax Okay And
this sheet tells you Kate May County and what Kate May County paid an occupancy tax And this compares us with all the counties in the state Now we all know occupancy tax and how that works We know that municipalities can take an extra 3%
Kay certainly has was ahead of everyone taking advantage of that option Um I've been talking to uh Zach and you had $4 million last year So that's pretty impressive Um but in last year Kate May County 2024
uh I keep track of this We I have the link to the state treasury They send it out every month They're usually about two months behind but um we generated 23 million over $23 million If you see that under Kate May under this with all the
counties and comparisons the only other one that did better than us was um Bergen County and Bergen County has a lot of chain hotels next to New York and stuff So they have far more rooms than us Kate
meme county has 11,350 rooms in um the entire county We have over 12,000 campsites So when we look at lodging that's the only way they can
collect the occupancy tax and that's how we get funded through grants So I just want to tell the story about Kate me county and the $23 million we generated That occupancy
tax was started in 2005 and it was you know that was when the law was signed in and there was in the law provisions how much goes to support tourism arts and history from day one even though the
verbiage says shall tourism shall get 76% of the money we've never gotten 76% Um we generated if you see with the total all the counties we generated in
total 31 or in the quarters 193 over here on the end in n in 2024 in occupancy tax in all 21 municipalities The amount that was allocated to all the
counties for arts history and tourism grants was about 55 thou $55 million So where did the rest of it go we answer We ask that question all the time We're never given an answer And now is the time that we all need to have
one voice and work together with our legislators at the state and say "What's up?" You know why are we not getting our fair share we're generating $23 million and we're getting $1.4 million back Essex County
generated seven million and they got nine million back How's that work and when you question them first the guy head of the uh assembly tourism committee was from Essex County So you know
imagine that And when I questioned it when I was testifying one time he didn't want to hear it He did me one of these like move on I thought you're not giving me the bums rush I drove two hours to get here And it's because then he says
'Well we have the Newark Museum And I said okay well I can tell you how many people come to Kate May County for a week Can you you know to experience our area can you tell me how many people go to Newark Museum for a week i mean it's a great attraction There's no doubt
about it But you're not generating what we are Then they have Paper Mill Playhouse They many nights are dark but they're getting a million dollars right off the top Um then there's the the new New Jersey ballet Beautiful But they don't
come down here So you know we can tell you all this and that's what I have done for 50 years I it's a science to me I spend all the time you know So I think what we're working on now with our legislators and hopefully with a new governor coming whatever you know the
results of that are going to be that we need to make that an issue that we're not getting our fair share We're generating $23 million and 22 of it's going to other counties to support their arts history and tourism or going into the black hole that's supporting we
don't even know what but on the backs of our visitors that we all work hard to get and then the hotelers who have to collect it We don't even have enough money to adequately market the county the hotels the overnight stays and
nobody's getting it without an overnight stay You're not collecting it Could I ask a question what who makes a decision on how the money is allocated well that's what we're trying to find out and the tourism committee or the assembly committee has said that they uh that there was a a breakdown but that
southern New Jersey should get more money because they're real tourism And my whole question has been business tourism in North Jersey Bergen County is great but they're coming for business and leaving They're not off the going
out to the restaurants because they're provided with conventions and stuff like that but we're pure tourism This is all we have 59% of the jobs in Kate County are tourism related And uh we're generating what was that again
59% In here you will see uh a a chart that gives you the breakdown of and that would be on page eight
So you you have a listing and kind of a breakdown So when we get the information from the state I break it down to the county So on page eight you'll see what I'm talking about Um visitor supported jobs are 31,000 uh
325 total jobs that they have that are it's hard for me to define what's tourism related and what isn't because the gas stations get you know more business in the summer You know my son wore hearing aid His the guy at the
hearing aid shop said you know we spell sell more batteries in the summer So are you tourism aren't you tourism so it's hard to really define but those are the numbers that we get from the state And and I think when you look at last year
it was $7.7 billion that Kate May County uh generated from visitor spending 7.7 billion We were second next to Atlantic City which was 8.1 billion and we used the Atlantic County used to double Kate
me county So they've lost and we've gained So that's you know we're second highest in the state But when you look at the um uh uh state and local tax that our v you know from tourism that we pay it's
uh 637.5 million in state and local tax Cy county is sending to Trenton $1.75 million a day 365 days of the year based on tourism expenditures these are the state numbers you know so I like to
throw them back at them And uh and people find that just amazing you know that we're how much money in taxes that we send to Trenton and then it's always a fight There's no money for roads and bridges and things like that Why not so when we uh look at
visitor volume we're second in the state next to Atlantic County Atlantic County had 22 million visitors We had 11 So we had half except they're spending more money here because we're 7.7 billion and they're 8.1 So when you look at
um almost 11.6 million visitors to Kate May County in one year when are they coming mostly during the summer Let me ask you a question here U clearly Kate May's industry is tourism I is
there a a second or third industry in in uh uh commercial fishing okay Commercial fishing Uh in 1984 the state gave us a grant through the EDA to help support the fishing
industry the um commercial fishing industry because Kate May because tourism was starting to you know get beyond uh fishing which was was the biggest one Uh we have a loan program that we started and uh Deb is working
with that because her name's Bass Wasn't that a good but um so we started with $500,000 to start this program All the beach counties were each given the same amount of money to promote and increase
commercial fishing We're the only ones that have a program left They all went bankrupt They all loaned money to people who didn't pay We're now we have over a million dollars in the account We have more than a million dollars like out on the street in loans and we help the the
commercial fishing industry We've added oyster industry as a one of the latest things that are included in it So you know we are that is our second largest industry We certainly support it We help all of the boats Um not the small charter boats You have to have a
subchapter T captain's license if you're recreation you know So it's really making an impact But um that is really where we are Other than that government is an industry There are some that claim that Cape May has always been a year-round um
destination because of the fishing Exactly And and you know you go back to 1642 and how did they come here why did they come here fishing and agriculture And now you turn back around you know fast forward 350 years and it's still fishing and agriculture So we and retail
retail is probably related to tourism as well Yeah retail is and the other would be the what's continually growing is the u medical pharmaceutical medical you know right because we have an aging population so because we have about 23%
of our um residents are 65 and over you know that's the industry I know And how's Mike Ta helping you uh he he listens He we give him all of our information We share it with him He goes
out and speaks to it But now we're all ready to get on board You're running Let's get this occupancy tax and issue because it's not only um Kate County but he's got Cumberland County Cumberland County gets more than they produce And
so we tried to be nice but it's still on the list They're getting more I can't change that fact But and Salem County is also Atlantic County They're getting they're not getting the money that we're getting Um I have a chart that I did not bring but te tells you I mean it's this
long because we want to tell you how much did you get in arts grants how much did you get in tourism and in history and then what is your total revenue uh spending what did you get and and some of them are getting more than 100% back There's at least three of them And and
then there's one that Mike Ta did not know and um they have a little category on their listing called other So what's other nobody knew You know what it is they give grant dollars to New York because New Jersey people go there They
spent they generated zero in occupancy tax They get more than we do They get 1.9 million We get 1.4 Does that even make sense and anybody if you would say it why would you give them money and and they're getting arts money and they're getting
tourism grant dollars So the question is what can we do and I think we all need to stand as one voice and that's what I'm trying to put together I've been out on medical leave so I kind of took it you know took a break from it I never take a break but you know but now it's
time that we all work together So that's why I'm glad to speak to your group because I'm trying to get out there I've got a conference coming up at the chamber You know I was going to say and Diane um comes to the League of Municipalities has done the same presentation Yeah And um probably maybe
two or three months ago if I recall maybe December Okay Yeah So I mean you know I I you know do credit but it's just a matter of my feelings are awareness and then let's all come together and be the voice that says something's wrong and we need to make
some adjustments Um whatever our our my commissioner is Linda Zero He's a businessman in tourism He's like "Whenever you're ready to strike let me know." But you know we have to feed that information and make sure everybody sees it and understands it And that's why I
have this spreadsheet I mean it talks about you know return on investment We're bringing in 11.6 million people and we're seeing that they're bringing in three million and they're getting p getting more than we're getting They're also a concern of mine is if you're not
true tourism why are you getting it you might have some great attractions but why are you in the same level as us and it's a competitive application So how do you I mean there are people out there spending money for international travel and they go to
these shows and they're costly The IPW which is the international pow-wows in Chicago next month it it's like $15,000 to go there You know what you're bringing back this in New Jersey They're not coming with the state gives you a number at you know when they give the
report and they're not moving the needle on international The other concern we have when they talk about Canadian they're spending money in Canada They're not going to North Jersey You know we don't know if they're coming here either but that's to be determined But um you
know so they give money and I don't think that the people who are making decision have any idea that they're not generating where the money comes from and that they're not generating they're not showing any kind of return on investment So that's
each one of the arts history and tourism have their own the arts council the historic trust and they all they all go independent of each other to the appropriations committee And if you ask them do you know who how much money we don't you know we generate it no they
don't know nor do they care Now we have this arts group that is new people you know as they retire they bring new people in and they're changing the rules We get $200,000 as a regrant program that we have to grant out to our members
And if we have 20 people or we have 15 people it's still $200,000 They have now changed the rules for whatever reason that municipal church uh schools can't apply and and it can
only be nonprofits Now you take a look I get the nonprofit thing but if you look at municipalities and they're putting you know movies on the beach or free concerts they're bringing thousands of people and they're going to eliminate that And and there are some that just
happen to have an affiliation with say Cape Christian Academy which is not really affiliated with the religion It's just that their their foundation is to you know Christian beliefs and stuff they're going to eliminate them but they're supplying arts education to kids and
anyone can participate in it So they don't take a look at it They go across the board This is what we're doing Now we might have a group that is you know nonprofit you know the Puerto Rican Action Committee They're very active but
they're not bringing what the municipalities are bringing for reach and accessibility and you know underserved because they are free concerts But now that's the new rule So well you're probably going to get the same amount of money I'm waiting for
that one because I'm pretty sure it's interesting to me because I've had conversations with uh with Jeff Vasser who constantly holds Cape May out as the model that everyone else should be following Yes Will his retiring result in potential window for us to maybe make
some progress well I don't know because it was he worked hard for us We're the we are also the department of tourism but we are the DMO the destination marketing organization which gives us more dollars and um he does you know like every DMO should operate like you
because we operate like county government we're not giving you a receipt on the back of a cocktail net that we have purchasers you know we follow the rules and he'll say that you know people can only do what you do we don't go to these international shows because we don't have the money to do
that and there's no return on investment And when we went to two of them they thought I haven't moved the needle And not one Canadian tour operator came to see us So you know we've got the state doing uh German They the Canadian agency they use
is in Ontario 99% of our visitors are from So you're saying there actually is a risk in the turnover of the position that we could lose yes Because we don't know who they're bringing in Is it someone from North Jersey who thinks it's all about how do how can Cape May send a delegation to talk with that
director when that's what we're going to try to do We want to have a great and and the people that are there the marketing director who's now acting director he gets us you know he knows that when we talk it's not you know oh look at me I'm you know we're going to
we just you know at a show booked 80 rooms Well they're booking 80 rooms for people to come to shop at outlets at no tax How does that help everybody else you know so we want to be able to say first off let's define tourism Is it
leisure is it business so treasury collects the money Uh who what what agency in the state government is responsible for the distribution of that money the the treasury then gives money x amount of dollars to arts I think it's
$191 million And what department is that located in uh that's the um the state Yeah it's and it's the council of the arts which is part of the state uh division or and then tourism goes through the office of travel and tourism
That's 25 million That went up from 17 and they thought we should all celebrate and that's not what what department is that located in No And that's what now I'm sending out and we're working even with Atlantic County We had a meeting say here's the bill Read it Here's what
we got Here's your chart Uh Atlantic County is also not uh receiving a fair share You know why don't you give us 20% That's pretty much an average Give us 20% we'll be you know of what we had I don't want 6% I don't think that's fair
And um they had a bill that they were going to out there and I testified on the Senate and the Assembly side and they all agreed It was passed It sat on the governor's desk It was called the tourism county touris in incentive grant
So their verbiage was we're gonna take excess and divide it among all the counties that have a tourism office Well I'm thinking do they know there's only five counties in the entire state that have a tourism office and we're one of them Well it turns out their definition
of excess was somebody predetermined Well we thought you were going to generate you know say 190 million and you generated 193 million excesses that three and now we're gonna never pass the governor's desk So you know it was like something that you would get a little
bit back for your because there's no incentive to work harder you know if you're not going to get the money So we just kind of blow that off We have to work harder So that's where we are and we're moving getting the chambers together getting you know Atlantic County Chamber was the one who asked you
know they have no idea they nobody takes this information like you get these grants and you don't know how much you generated and you're just all smiles because well if I was Essex I'd be keeping everybody quiet but you know how do people get more than they gave how do
how does our dollars generated on the tax of our visitors that we marketed to go to somewhere else who didn't prove a return I don't mean to interrupt but this is u this is where I wish not that I'd that I'm looking for more of Dennis's charts but this is where I'd
love to see a chart that sort of says funds come in and this is how they go out and these are the decision makers Well and and I can send the bigart because that I have otherwise if we can't get to the people that make the decisions then we're not going to change I mean the definition of ins is the
second year of the big the big chart where it shows every penny that came in and it's not like I you can look online and find out how much the arts um council got and how they divvied it out but that all other that always like what's
other it's going outside the state can you break down the county number uh by municipality like could could we know how much Cape May city sent in they don't give that to us they claim They don't have it We all know there's a code Everybody's you know they don't they
don't have it That's Well they don't want to give it to to us The whole link to get to this information I got by accident many many years ago in a thread when it was um Assemblyman or Senator
Van Drew And there it was Click It's the Yeah we have a code Yeah About five years ago I I did have a woman in the Treasury who who got me that code also So she's not there anymore Well I still have the code and I but it's not they do not break it down We've asked them we
can't do that and I know they can They know when you you put in your your county code or your city code or whatever when but yeah so there's a lot of questions and way more questions than I have for people who deal you know with the filing and all that But see they do
know the code because they send us back our 3% municipal Yeah I mean they know where to send it to and more municipalities are jumping on to that Ocean City is working on that I know Middle Township Um that's a question I had Cape May as you mentioned sort of
led the way with this occupancy tax the local tax Uh Lower Township picked it up as well Yeah Is nobody else is picking it up well Wildwood can't Uh no because they already have the tax but you cannot add more than 14% tax So if you have the
tourism tax and they're paying probably 3% Yeah They have their own authority Yeah But the other towns Middle Township just started a year or so ago in anticipation of the Hampton Inn Yes And now that seems to be moving forward Um
Ocean City has that on you know they're working on that right now to get 3% Ocean City's issue is they don't have really a lot of hotels so they're going after the BMBBS as well I see Okay All
right Good So you mentioned Canada Um I've in the Herald saw some data this week that both uh flights booked from Canada to the US and border crossings are down significantly Yes What's the latest that you're hearing well first
off we're a drive destination They're not booking flights Where are they flying into philly because there's nothing in Atlantic City Used to be that didn't work Um and the border crossings where are they get what border are they crossing i had somebody send me one for
British Columbia Trust me they're not coming across the British Columbia They come to Kney County and they come in June July and August So show me the numbers for June July and August I can tell you and I've done extensive research their economy was hurting them
and they're change they were changing their vacation patterns long before the first of the year and the exchange rate hovers between 68 and 70% So you've been impacted They've been impacted the
gasoline they sell by the leader last week when I checked it was um $1.95 a gallon They're paying $712 for I mean a liter liter for a gallon $72 for a gallon of gas So that's
impacting everything they do Their core living expenses just like ours their cost of a dozen eggs if that's what you want to measure it by is equal to ours They have a goods and service tax and it with the goods and service and the
provincial tax they're paying 14% that's on utilities that's on groceries certain groceries are not included but it's on restaurants it's on clothing so they've been impacted for two since COVID they haven't recovered so they're impacted
every day of the year so that reduces their discretionary income for vacations then you go to the border and you lost about a third of your value of your money They're losing 30 cents on every dollar They were comfortable up until it
gets to about 75 cents So you know they're getting you know losing 25 In the 1970s when we were really doing a lot of marketing it was par then it would slip up you know move up to three They're
losing three percent 5 percent but when they're losing 30 cents and and people we went to a travel show two weeks ago and and there were a couple who were you know screaming "We hate the orange man." Uh but they were going to every US booth to say that Um but others said "We can't
afford it." And we've had cancellations I've talked to um camp largest campground uh Scott Turner He keeps you know great books We share our numbers He said yeah he's had cancellations at the campground but he said it's almost like
you get a cancellation and two people go and make a reservation So he said "We're not feeling that crunch yet." Uh a person in in Wildwood Crest two hotels She said "We're 85% booked for the season." Yes we she had four cancellations Spoke to every one of them
These people have been coming 10 years or longer to their hotel and they said you know we can't afford it We have been impacted It's been you know ongoing and then you lose the money at the the border So I I know that there's anger I
know that there's you know all this going on that we don't know what's going to happen Um but they're already cancelling They were already you know and and they're promoting stations They they claim that
uh snowbirds spend about 650 million billion dollars to come to the US Well they're not coming here snowbirds because we're technically not really open for them But when you think there's 17 states across the border and they're stopping that a lot of them just came
over to shop because there's no tax on clothing you know or you know things were less costly But you know we're waiting it out I always do a big campaign with CA which is the Canadian Automobile Association
and it's about a $10,000 buy and now with the exchange rate it was 79 So I was all smiles I get a letter everything they had the insertion they had the purchase order they had the artwork came back and said our company will not
advertise any US business Now if you look through their book or online I would say more than a third of them are US uh destinations and we do it because it's we're a drive destination It's a drive publication and um they refused it
So then I tried with the radio station we always had and they added 700 976 tariff on after we talked about it Then they added the tariff I thought well I'm
not advertising because I'm afraid if we advertise we incite these you know angry people and we get more nastier So So your sense is that whether it's exchange rate or
political backlash we'll see fewer Canadian tourists but we'll they'll be replaced by other people because of the open They are And I'm just I take random We have a lot of businesses who we call our stakeholders and what's up Of course we don't know restaurants or anything
like that but we know that they look for they're very value conscious So when they get here it's more casual dining than than the the fine dining but we also know that they uh there are still some that are cancelling and at the show they were coming up taking we gave out
same amount of literature this year as we did last year And and and the thing that we need to keep in mind is that the border was closed two seasons over COVID 2021 20 and 21 and as soon as they opened in November by December we had a
full campaign and we have not fully recovered from COVID we're about 96% uh recovered So now we're going to see it re be you know go down but I don't I mean we still want them here you
know they become friends and like family to a lot of the business they return to the same places they make the reservation before they leave to come back the next year you see their children grow up but so you don't want to see them go but I'm not sure that judging by
uh border crossings or air uh service that it's going to affect us Did do you have a sense of what percentage of our market is Canadian yes it's 7% in July and August of our visitor base and we do
our own surveys and you'll see a survey in here but last year we specifically targeted during COVID the Canadian at five last five questions we always take the topic of the year and just specifically ask questions to our and is that is that tourism spend or number of
tourists the 7% number tourist yeah and we get a lot of information we were getting a lot of information from the um consulates's office in Canada and they would spend about $169 million is for
overnights So and we don't get the day trippers So we just look at the overnight stuff and and you know the advantage of a Canadian visitor is they tend to stay longer They have that two weeks holiday The f I always say the further you drive the longer you stay So they're not coming for a weekend So when
we're doing fall and winter marketing we don't worry about Canadians kind of stay in that 300 mile radius But you know we're going to have to see how it goes But we're still hearing Wildcross Hotel said we haven't gotten all of them
canled you know four or five But so if you had to pick two stat lines um to assess the tourism industry uh visitors would be one and dollars spent would be another And that's Yeah Now do you do you see are there any trends in either
of those two numbers are they up down what we're seeing is an increase in fall and winter visitors uh which is about 15% for winter increase over the years
So we're doing more marketing We have a full marketing you know slug of money for fall and winter Um what we're seeing is trending is um and I read about the trends and how do we fit if the trend is snow skiing we're out you know but if
the trend is beaches you know we need to target those people um what we're seeing is that that book bucket list is back that people want to do and a lot of it's got to do with nature uh outdoors birding camping uh the road trip they
call it so people don't want to do as much as the tours and the bus tours motor coach and stuff like that because they want to be able to stop along the way and enjoy you know wherever they're you know maybe they're going to stay overnight maybe it's a couple hours but that's a huge trend And
I think it's you know kind of from the COVID being kind of locked in Let's go we're going to come to the see the ocean but we're not going you know we're going to stop at different places So that's been a trend for the past three years So and we're also seeing that they want to
travel during fall and winter spring and summer We kind of lump that together We're seeing a lot more people coming in the spring The other trend that we're seeing is the um second homeowner About half of our dwellings in
Kate County are considered second homes and or vacation homes about 53% of them rent them out um at some time either fully for income or whenever they want to you know do you have a spreadsheet on
that on the second homeowners on on that ratio you just talked about uh we have an older one but we haven't done that we have to work with um the tax office to get and we basically get that uh done by county tax office where do you send your
bill outside of Ke County which is all right Zip coded and stuff Yeah it's time to do that and so we will do it But that were they were the numbers of who rents them and because then we could send them the survey A lot of people don't want to do a survey and they don't want to give
you their their email address So it's either a paper survey that you know some kind of incentive what will give you you know a pen or you know something Well tourism tourism generates the revenue
within Kate May County The the the shore towns are probably the beach towns are probably the source of the revenue a lot of the revenue that comes into the county How does that translate in terms of the county the county operating
budget it it the county operating budget we don't really get the money from the expenditures It's the um house sales you know transfers property things like that That's the county clerk and she has pretty good uh handle on that and we can
get that information from that talks about that That's what helps the county But the tourism in general is just the businesses more businesses more people paying taxes affording to pay the taxes that kind of stuff So we don't while we're the number one industry we're
considered discretionary They don't need us but they keep us But you know but we do have to have the tax office the sheriff's office and things like that Well it kind of seems to me that you talked earlier about about the disparity of of fund distribution versus fund
source in the occupancy tax I I I'm interested to know your sense of whether or not that disparity exists at the county level within the county budget In other words lots of revenue comes to the county from the tourism centers Uh are
we getting back our proportions here of services from the county our board of commissioners has been very generous to tourism because we can show them the numbers Um and you know you're allowed to raise it 2% So it's not hard to raise
a 2% when you see the prices going up for advertising but they do support and uh they use our our information for a lot of other things that they're doing grants that they do things like that um
any other programs um how you know it it impacts like we already know that when the fuel tax excise tax comes through and Kate May County is generating all this money we always get the short end of the stick you know and and that's the
whole thing that we're working on as you know it's not only just us it's you know the county engineer isn't getting grant dollars back um in proportion to what the county maybe we should just take our cut before we send the money Well that's what
Yeah And then come after But yeah it's interesting and I think that it's definitely you know everybody needs to be aware We'll keep the numbers out there and then as one group you know one voice and say you know explain this You're our legislators
you know where does this come from now is there a movement um to to uh organize the municipalities yes That's why I spoke at the League of Municipalities Most of them there were like I never heard this before I didn't know that
this was you know what was happening Now we're seeing now with the internal grants that they're going to not fund a lot of these organizations a lot of the we know if and I'm going to say why will Crest put in the art u
pavilion they get 10,000 or more people coming through there who it gives them an extra activity Maybe they're going to stay another night because they're participating or they want to be part of it The movies on the beach the free concerts that the towns have they all bring a lot of people to the area and
that might be the and and the survey will tell you you know why did you come for a special event a lot of them do but we're seeing that the trend is and you'll see it here the outdoors the wineries the agriculture farmtotable the
fishing industry So this that they they call it local culture What makes us so different than being in the city or being you know in other areas and that's attracting more and more people And when we market that's what we're marketing You know we're we market that we're
authentic that we're pure you know that we're um what's our slogan again authentically charming sincerely yours authentically charming sincerely yours because nobody had to build it We're not Disney They
didn't have to build it Even if you go to Williamsburg a lot of those are reconstructed rather than restored And there's a lot of interest if people want to see the actual thing So of course you know Kate Bay is a big part of it but Dooop and Wildwood what we now
mid-century that's of interest too because now the older people get they remember you know So there's a lot of the charm that we have that's real If you go to Seal if you go to Avalon or Stone Harbor if you go to Ocean City
there's authentic charm It's you know people want to see it They want to be part of that local culture If it's sitting at the fishing docks and having lunch and that could be in Seattle it could be in Avalon It could be right here That's what people are looking for And we're seeing that and that's what
we're targeting that you know history is great but we're talking more about the authentic charm that each town has and that can draw people of different interest And our digital ads we can kind of pinpoint you know through the
demographics we get from our like uh digital marketing TV We have a big buy with um NBC right now and they're giving us all kinds of good stuff because they want us but we're getting good uh coverage on streaming because they're
trying to build their streaming So we're buying broadcasts are linear and they're giving us a lot more on streaming and we're getting a lot more response So you get a report and it'll tell you where everything's how long they watched your commercial where they're coming from And
so that allows us to kind of target with a different message Is it the message of the beach maybe not So maybe it's the message of dining or wineries or you know history So we are looking at how people's the trends are changing and how
our visitors opinion has changed So what what what is your prognosis for this year um we're already seeing that we're up in occupancy tax for 24 over 23 and it's 5% we're up uh we try to take
factor out increase cost to just the overnight stays then we'll start to get other information I think we're going to remain soft but still increase and we have been soft since well we recovered we're the first ones to recover after
COVID and um we've continued to grow Sorry I just want to make sure that those years are right You're seeing an increase in 24 over 23 Yes Not 25 over 24 No we don't have 25 Yeah But the only thing I have for 24 is occupancy because
I can track it If I have to wait for the state it's not coming out until May and then I'll be able to kind of I'm the one that likes to peel the onion you know and see where and get these numbers that they don't give you you know it's not flashing You got to look it up and you
got to have the you know personnel and willingness to take and and dissect those numbers that they give us but it gives a benchmark So we are seeing 24 as we have an increase I think when we get to 24 numbers from the state we're going
to see an equal four or five percent increase We used to have 11% but it's still an increase where others are showing a decrease The other beach counties I have to tell you are not doing well Mammoth counties not doing well Um and if you just look at some of
their numbers just from the occupancy 14 million Ocean County is is really they're one of the largest counties but with Sandy ever since Hurricane Sandy a lot of their lodging side turned into permanent
housing and they don't have the hotels they're losing hotels and um so they're way off from what we are Um they get more money than we do but in their occupancy and generate less But I will tell you that it's Atlantic County I
mean we just read that their uh gaming is down 9% Over the last year So yeah we're we're we're the strong ones except you know there's that Bergen County but they have triple the hotel rooms we have Right Diane just a this is
a little bit off that that whole track but um looking at the survey that's on your website I'm sure it's probably in here Yeah Um this survey how are you getting it who you giving the the It's
um we we we've worked we we send it out to about 3,400 emails that we have that we can collect These are the people who have contacted us and we've captured their email They've contacted our office They've um some of them are doing you know our advertising and then they ask
for more information and we're able to get it They came to our website Uh we take it at travel shows We can get email address people who want more because we don't want to just say we're only going to survey those people who answer our ads That's kind of skewed a little So we try to get it beyond that and working
with um information from uh social media That's where we get the the email I think what what I was curious about was do you think you get a representative cross-section of people that come to rent a home though as opposed to going
to a hotel motel well that's why we try to reach out through those other mechanisms and and the concern Yeah Second homeowners aren't you know they're already here they don't need more information But yeah that's why we try to reach as many places in many ways as we can Not perfect but we get about I
think last year we had a 26% return rate I mean they say a sample of 5% is adequate So we surpassed that to get the data that we do here Uh again I use it as a benchmark I think it's incredible
It's it's a lot like a demographic that we know which is that the age of uh 54 to 71 is 38% 72 and over is another tw 12 point you're looking at well over 50%
more than half are are 54 and over and that's why we continue to use newsprint we continue to use TV we continue to use radio and we're seeing that more and more are getting on the social media So Facebook is one of the fastest growing 55 plus demographic but it's expensive
and we hear all the time we don't do print we just do well we're missing more than 50% of our visitors if we don't give them the information in the format that they want And one of the questions here how do you like to receive your information and we're
seeing it go down a little that you know print and radio and TV the the traditional is kind of slipping but we also know that we need to target our customer all of them And if we leave 50% of our visitors out of the loop of what
we have we've shot ourselves in the foot Well and and u the your visitors in in Cape May city for sure the visitors coming here uh a large percentage of them come through real estate agents and and property rentals rather than hotels
or or Yes Especially Kate May Ocean City is the same same way Now do you do you have a way to get the the real estate agencies to help you distribute we have literature and that and we use them as our you know cut you know stakeholders
how's it how's it looking and we can find out from you know their reservations what's happening you know and we reach out to to them as well to maybe give when you rent something from a real estate agent give them a copy of your survey to to answer that well we a
lot of them come to our conference to get this information others call and say can you mail it So the book is getting around Um should we do reach out to as many businesses we'd like to hear from restaurants What are the trends you know
how do we you know get more people into your restaurant you know what are we doing you know one of the trends that we just found out last year was a lot of people aren't eating three meals a day They're doing early lunch late breakfast and dinner And sometimes it's pizza
We're hearing from hotelers are saying that our recycle has you know tripled in the amount of trash they're taking out because they're buying take takeout people and things like that So that's a different trend for restaurants to understand you know and so when we look
at you know I feel like I count I I I get a report from the uh MUA on flushes and they all laugh because I have the flush report but we can compare year to year how many people are flushing uh and the water usage uh monthto month year to
year Um I get traffic count from the ferry I get traffic counts from the uh Garden State Parkway Uh the uh Kate May and the Great Egg we get that report So we we try to track everything and see if
it's all working together Is something way out of But you know that kind of gives you the idea that okay we're okay or we're a little scary The fair's up They they just sent their final for December
Parkway It's hard that flushing report I'm glad nobody in the committee picked up on the opportunity to make a a little pun out of that But well especially $56 Well the quality of your your returns might be you know it's always I don't
include that in any of my stuff but I do look to see if it's consistent with everything year to year But I mean if there's a report out there I want to see it I see what's happening July August you know September October starts to die off but we've had in July and August our
occupancy tax was over $5 million for July and August And um you'll see it on the county on this uh county list here So July and August 5 million for the
second year in a row for just each of those months Nobody in the state comes even close to that So when we look at the July even into September then all of a sudden it kind of clo shuts down in um September
October we're seeing an increase in uh December because all the different municipalities have great holiday events and but we're not seeing occupancy tax as much as we're seeing second homeowners who are coming to take advantage of that So um you know as far
as what I'm seeing for 2025 I think it's going to be soft but we're still going to see an increase A lot of times what occupancy tax pretty much correlates with what the state we're going to see that 7.7 billion increase on expenditures
It'd be interesting to see how these numbers compare to Kate May's numbers too Yeah that's what we need to look at you know to see how uh and you know the mayor said I said I don't get the you know municipal numbers And he said we're four million I said well I don't ask You
know if you want to tell me that's fine but you know I kind of stay in my own Well I I don't see why we don't We're pretty proud of that number actually Exactly and should be But we're seeing more and more of you know the concern of the sales of the bed and breakfast to be
private homes That's a concern I look at you know we need more hotels when we used to have 18,000 rooms and now we're 11 350 rooms in the county and and what I look at over the years is you come a
week and you do all the activities Then the next group comes in and they do all that If you're staying or you own the house you're not you're doing those maybe once You become complacent But we need these weekly hotel rentals that help us help all the businesses You want
to go to your favorite restaurant the boardwalk you know shopping but the next group you want them to do it too instead of saying "I already did that I'm staying two weeks but I did that so I'm not going to go back." So that's the concern that I have Um I know uh Ocean
City has lost a lot of their hotels and uh I know the Icona property is a big issue with their rooms but overall we need more hotels Well the the um the universe of visitors is shifting away
from hotels into homes and whole house rentals Rentals Yeah Sleeps 25 kind of thing In fact Dennis when you look at this data the the occupancy tax for December is very low relative to considering how many people relative to the amount of business that we have here
in Cape May They're they're not staying in hotels right and hotels are changing in condos W Christ is a perfect example A lot of their hotels are now condos So yeah we have we have a couple of those here right so you're seeing fewer rooms
that are you know not paying the occupancy tax So you know that's all you look at and you look at the numbers and you say you know something you can kind of figure out what's happening and what's not Getting back excuse getting back to the issue of the states cutting
into the revenues from the occupancy tax Uh this committee has has been put together to study revenue and sources of revenue and flow and and and then what that revenue is spent on used on uh what
what what should we recommend to the city council to uh to address that issue that you I think all come together and come up with if it's a group meeting or whatever with ways to get our dollars back I mean if it comes to the DMO we can do more marketing that you don't
have to do or we can co-op with you to say you know we can help pay for the ads and you know or if we do DMO which is destination marketing organization that we get the money you know from the uh I get cooperative marketing about 20 to
25,000 a year The DMO gets about 250,000 So we're seeing we lost 45,000 last year because Jeff Fer added municipalities instead of counties That's what we were getting away from a
destination not a city So um $45,000 is a lot but we can then do an ad featuring Kate May and just put Southern Shore on the bottom You know those are that's what our intent was to help each municipality as they market where they
want to market and what publications you decide But we can help by just you know we're eligible to do that by just putting the Southern Shore logo on it So if you lose money we can't offer those options And so that's one way that we
can help get your message out And it's your message We don't control your message you know but we do do ads right now that feature the main photo is you know it could be anything It could be the fishing docks it could be uh the shopping it could be Victorian house And
we have our own photographer and we're to do a professional photographer who goes out and uh takes photos for us all for you to use you know we have a photo library that we want to share it and we do share it and uh we don't promote
individual businesses but there happen to be a picture of the Washington Street Mall That's an attraction and if the photos there we're not going to blur out you know we want to help the businesses too with the you know the grant money that comes from occupancy tax and our
photographer has been working with us 15 20 years So it' be good if we could then urge the council to increase the uh the level and intensity of interface between our tourism section We work with Casey but it's a lot of the
localized stuff You know if we have a journalist who wants to do a story on Kate May we bring them right to you you know and um we have we're meeting with a German a new German rep next week Tuesday and they want to go see Kate May
that that is I think with the change in in leadership at the top of the at the state level that's an opportunity for Cape May to send information and make sure that we continue to be seen in a favorable light and sending the calendar of events stuff like that to us which
you are doing then we get it to the state and then we also are doing work with the NJ film commission uh we've got fif videos that they have approved so they put it into their database so there's that opportunity opportunity Um
you know there we have a magazine the vacationer You have an ad in it but it goes out to 100,000 So the print this year is 100,000 and but the downloads on our website you are increasing So people are
downloading your information Every ad is a live link to Vassor's replacement is a uh governor appointed position I believe Correct Yes What's that vassor's replacement will be a governor's appointment I believe Yes Yes And the
guy who's doing it now uh he was their marketing director and he's kind of their acting right now He comes from a New York marketing firm Perfect He gets it and he gets us and he you know he's here So when do you expect the new director to be appointed i don't know
They can't wait till the election I think they have to put someone in interim but because right now is where everything's breaking You know got to have your advertising in But here's a story They have an agency from to represent Canada Did they call us we've
been advertising and marketing in Canada since 1968 1970 to 1995 We had our own office The only county that had an office in you know international in another country Uh so they hire an agency who's from Ontario Discover
Travel or something They're doing ads in Quebec in English So our PR consultant says "I'm hearing your ads but they're in English." So you call and say "Hey you know you really need to do your ads in French." And if you need it translated
the radio station will do it for you Or our PR person And oh no we're fine They they do them in French I said "I got someone listening and they're not in French." So and and if you want the number one station and they do list the
radio 88% of people in Quebec speak French so why would you give them an ad in English now with all this political stuff it only incites them that you don't have the courtesy or respect that you give us your ad in our language But
you know well we're hoping they Let me ask you a final question Uh do the other shore counties Monmouth Ocean and Atlantic do they have a Diane W they have somebody they have somebody in Cumber no Ocean County but they do
economic development as well and they are new and they're you know a political appointee and they don't have the long they come to me you know but yeah u Mammoth County they no longer have it They put that all under uh economic
development and their numbers are bad They're not generating they're not advertising they don't put a budget I mean we have a nice budget We get to increase 2% Uh I try to squeeze a little bit more than 2% but my hands back But
you know Yeah And I've been doing it for 50 years Like I don't go home and watch TV I get home and look for trends or you know what kind of stuff I could be doing putting my booklet together So that's great You do a great job Well thank you Does anybody else have any issues or
questions flesh out some ideas So if the new book will be coming out we're going to do our our conference this year at the Grand Oh good In May So we'll be sending out notices Um I'll be
uh giving all the new data have a new book get everybody what they you know need That's in May Yeah May 6th May 15th 15th 15th in conjunction county Yeah We're doing it with them Got it And
they're going to have someone from South Jersey Economic Development also speak Okay Great Well thanks so much for being here Thank you Yeah If anybody has any questions you need to call you know we have that you know I can answer or whatever Yeah you do And I'm back I'm
back from leave and Okay Thank you so much All right Yeah Yeah Okay Mory would you give us a quick uh walk through on on that sheet that we talked
about last time uh how to fix the parking problem Uh well I don't have much to offer There hasn't been a great deal of time that Steve and I have had to talk about this to be perfectly honest um been pretty consumed with a number of other um issues and problems
and I think my colleague has also we had a brief conversation yesterday So um that's all I can really say at this point in time We really haven't gotten any further into it We just there buried in those recommendations is
um actually data collection uh in terms of especially the uh the uh parking the current Well part of this would have to go before the other members of council to see whether or not that's something that they want to undertake Well I think my point is
MTRA is has done that before We could do that again if the committee chose wants to if council wants us to proceed with some of the other things that are outlined here We were first just uh Steve and I just tried to have a conversation to get an idea of what the
parking trust fund um construct is right now current balance um and some of the assessment dollars that come into there on a yearly basis That was we start we started at the first one on the top of the list Yeah Um and that's as far as we got Okay So well we're here to help on
that because Sure appreciate that and and we can circulate that and have a conversation to see um you know what the other members and the recycling cost benefit analysis that that's that issue on um
the recycling is going in six ways from Sunday from what it looks like but um it's going before uh council on Tuesday right um it is still not passed again I had a conversation with other members of
council Um our position at this point is we haven't passed the ordinance number one and number two as stated at the last meeting we all feel strongly that we were going to wait till at a minimum until November to have some understanding of what the impact would
be This is virtually an unknown at this point Uh there's a lot of presumptions about volume coming off There's also a lot of uh speculation that we would be losing volume um because businesses might self- select out So at this point there's not really a true denominator to
understand um what impact if the the ordinance is passed will have We understand certainly the residential market um but the other side of the equation is not known So and the larger issue is whether or not the a
costbenefit analysis shows that uh municipal recycling pickup generally is is a good idea or a bad idea Is that going to be factored into the discussion um I'm not sure whether or not uh that
would be part of the discussion a good idea or a bad idea I think it's in my you know um definition of a costbenefit analysis is to say what is the cost right and are we spending more are we spending less or we just pretty much
um passing the regulatory requirement based on something that's been operationalized for the past five years which may have in those past five years proven to be very problematic in terms of its of its revenue yield and its
effectiveness Yeah I mean well all of that changed back in I think 2017 2018 Um so the you know recycling as far as being able to be a commodity in which you're generating revenue in the city is probably um I think that ship sailed
non-existent Yeah Which was which was by the way the the lynch pin that that was used to enact that uh program in the first place Sure supposed to be but yeah and but at some point in time there was a decision made that um you know it was
put back into operations for a portion of commercial pickup What we're just trying to do is write the ship We're trying to align the regulations with practice Um and I think until we get past next week to figure out what the decision is um and how it is voted upon
um and then giving some time through the season to determine really truly what the uh baseline utilization is because we don't to be honest with you we really don't know because there may be some businesses that have to se self- select out because they don't meet the
parameters but we don't know that until we pass it But Marine wasn't isn't it fair to say that in the first reading it was a unanimous uh Yes it was Okay Yeah So Okay Okay Anybody have any issues or
questions on that yes Go ahead Yeah Um I just the only question is you know for me um I think this was introduced when I was still on council Yes But the first time we put it off a couple of times Yeah But here's the thing I was
concerned about then and I'm still concerned about and I'm not sure anybody has done any kind of research on it and that is a lot of businesses do not use the city at all That's correct They pay 100% of their pickup
Question is what are they going to do when the new law is put into effect any change contemplated by any well I I think um Mike that's my that's the point which is why having this time period in which to vet and understand which
businesses might come on or what come off um right now that number is not really known now the people who are most versed in understanding what goes on with regard to what they pick up and who might come off are the individuals who
run public works right Eric and Frank are you know intimately familiar with what kind of volume is out there Um I would go as far as to suggest that if a commercial business and I might be wrong could be proven wrong has a a pickup by
a commercial vendor now they're not going to necessarily be able to meet the criteria because they're doing it purposely because they have enough volume that constitutes it So again I think that there's a lot of speculation as to which way this could go We are
trying to align parameters around what has been operationalized in the last 5 years Understand what the baseline metric looks like who's coming on and who's coming off and then revisiting all of that in November with a report from
you know Frank and um Eric who run the program and understanding truly what the I would say the analysis is around what our experience has been we're going to have five or six months in season in which we're going to be able to do this
Some of this also is really to and and if you've read some of the articles that have taken place changes that um North Wild would have seen um Middle Township you know all of those places there there is this trend towards management and control of what's being put out curbside
and doing so in a a way that is not unwielding um and is not necessarily an eyesore to the public Um limitations on what can be picked up um Middle Township you know um instituted that They tried to go out to a commercial vendor and
could not find one uh through the bid They actually had to negotiate with a vendor to have them you know work with them They're taking pictures if they're getting to a curbside and you're over your Yeah you're over your volume We've incorporated all of some of the language not pictures but some of the language in
there to kind of put a a a box around this Um so I think this is an exercise in us trying to attempt to understand truly rather than speculating what the world might be So does does
that mean do I have to go to the meeting on Tuesday or are you guys going to It's going to be pretty crowded It's going to be very crowded We anticipate that So there's a lot of you know um there's a lot probably on both sides of the issue I bet Yeah absolutely I mean the only reason I asked that is
unless there was an intention already of shelving that before the meeting That's why I'm not going to speak to a decision I make as a council member at this table I didn't think you would You have to help us I I I can help you Dennis I don't have to speak to what I will
decide at a council table That would be helpful It would be helpful but but it's not something I'm going to do With all due respect um what I'm trying to do right now is just kind of explain sort of the the the reasoning for why the ordinance was put together We started
this in September And I' I would like to restate this once again My position in starting this was because we had the employees from public works come to us and ask for help Gabe And that was my intention This was not to make this a
you know a battleground between residents and commercial That was my that was the the full reason why I got engaged in this and wanted to do my best by those individuals that said please we need help I did driveounds with them I was out in the street picking up trash
with with Eric one day because of the wind So I truly have to say that I intimately know a snippet of what they live with each and every day And I think that that is the reason why I agreed to go along with this It's taken a lot
longer than any of us would have liked for a lot of different reasons which I won't go into But Tuesday we need to come to a decision as a city one way or the other because we can't continue to operate and have an ordinance on the
books that doesn't match that doesn't match practice Right Exactly What uh Marie one one qu and again I apologize for not knowing the answer to this question but what for residents residential properties today is there a limit of one 98 or two I I know what the
new ordinance says but what did the old ordinance say the old one it was there was no limit there was no limit right right now we're trying to play fair on both sides of the equation and at least put some limits around it yeah it just I think it was very I mean
it's been a It was residential only but there was no limit Yeah Right Right And I could probably stand contradicted but the the the pos the position of MTRA on this issue just from discussions is how much is this thing costing who's paying
for it who benefits from it and whether or not any any source of revenue other than property tax uh is available to to continue the service if you want to continue the service So you're talking about the service in general Yeah regardless of who it is And that and I
will say that's a whole other conversation Yeah Well it's it's it's the uh I like that can It's it's it's yeah it's what we're supposed to do right and and and it it it's it's not a whole other issue It's a Siamese issue
because because to to change the number of cans and who does what at this level at this time may be kicking the whole larger question down the road to a point where it may very well Dennis but as I I will go back to the position that we don't really know to be quite frank um
about really what the baseline is you get it right That's that's what I mean that is the problem and the only way you get a handle on that in my opinion is to put out a program and put some parameters around it and then you digest it then you investigate then you get the update in the report and then you you
say okay is it an aha moment and and on which side of the equation is the aha moment and and until I mean there are many people in this town and in particular who you know if you really want to say we pay for it through our taxes for recycling as a president They
never put out a recycling can because they're weekenders They take it home I used to drive my stuff to the yard myself on Saturdays when I come down I'm looking at Russ and you probably Yeah And and there's people who would never put out a recycling can They live here but they don't bother They just dump it in their regular trash This is very true
There's some value to addressing just the employee concerned which this ordinance does do All right I mean we have an issue that needs to be addressed Um and it may not be it doesn't mean we have to wait 15 years to look at it again It's we we have a problem that has
to be solved right and we have a commitment that and that was agreed to at the council table November We're getting a report I was going to say that that's going to be critical I think to re and and and believe me having sp has having spent as much time on this as I will have that report I can assure you
Um you you may you may want to put a sunset provision in the ordinance just to make sure that that the report has a meaningful impact when it comes in November I don't want to I don't want to predetermine an outcome to this in my opinion Let's just get through this season I'm talking I know you're talking
about the ordinance but we will have that report It's already been um stated publicly and we've told uh Frank and Eric that that we expect them to track this and have that information available for presentation So okay Anybody else
have anything on this oh the next I have a quick question for Marine If if the ordinance is not passed on Tuesday um and there's a hard stop to business recycling
um are businesses permitted to take their recycling to the cityard absolutely Thank you Yep Yeah But I think that they've um they've had issues with that some business have tried to do that and we have that that we've already
talked about and under discussion Mike and um actually there Paul is working with the um the dumpster company that when they come to pick up full dumpsters number one and number two there may be changes where
the yard opens up at 7 I have to confirm I have to follow up with him on this issue and that we would just suggest don't come until 9 because the dumpster trade-off might be scheduled between 7 and 8:30 I just I want to confirm that with him That was a major discussion
during our uh one of our subcommittees So it will function ultimately Yes it will function Yes Yes And you know we've talked about what accommodations may have to be made even if they have you know something else in the yard that they could take it whatever Um there are
times there will be a time you know let's not say it's an absolute 100% Where somebody might be told listen can you just come back in about an hour just like many of us are when we go there you know like whatever it might be So there is you know that might occur but he was
trying to make some accommodations and having hours that would to be able to say come at this time because we're going to work with the dumpster company to make sure they're taking the full dumpsters out at a certain point because they got they have to take them up to Berley and then get a clean one back
down So I just need to follow up with him to find find out if he finalized all of those negotiations Any other questions should be Oh absolutely It's Yeah it's Okay next point I'm definitely bringing dinner
this week Point number seven uh reorganization of the MTRA committee I'm I have uh decided that I'm going to be stepping away and down from the chairmanship and the membership of the MTRA committee I'm doing this for two
reasons Number one um the the MTRA I I believe is a freestanding resource for this community Uh it's proven its worth proven its value and and I think it exists beyond anybody any one person any
one particular person I think it it can stand on its own merits and it should and it will because u I think Bob is the only one here who may be older than me I don't think so Uh he just added you Bob
Say no way Bob Say no way In any event track talk Yeah Yeah the the best way to ensure that that an institution continues to function properly is to turn it over to the younger folks who can do what they they can and and will do what they can And I'm I'm very
pleased with what the city has done with and for Amtrak Uh the city created it The city's taken full advantage of it And uh I'm actually very proud of that So it should be So at this point uh at
this point I'm going to step away from the chairmanship and the membership of the committee and kick it open anybody want to make a nomination for so I just want to say one word just a few words before that on behalf of the city and I I know um for the members of this committee thank you um what you have
done Dennis has been um a phenomenal body of work um you have dedicated yourself to this you've made uh recommendations that have substantially changed the landscape uh of the city with regard to revenue Um you have
always been someone who has been bold in your thoughts and um sort of pushed us all along And just tonight an example of that is the whole short-term rental and the fact that we you know did go out and find a platform to be able to shore up
and make sure that we are um we have everyone in compliance for many reasons Um and so just on on behalf of the mayor and the rest of council and the administration um thank you Thank you Thank you
And and so I'd like a nomination from the floor So uh I know I haven't been around for a while I'm I'm back back to my roots again here tonight for the first time Um but I you know coming from
a city council position where of course we saw Dennis many times l many lengthy times and enjoyed every minute of it It was always informative Um I also can say that we got to experience Martin and his
presentations there which were very capable and uh I think he would be a good choice to follow in Dennis's footsteps I'll second that Yeah I definitely also would second it I I think Martin has been a terrific asset
to this committee since I've been participating on it and is always thoughtful and uh I think would be a a terrific asset uh to to this commission So So I'll do the normal I have a motion on the floor from Mr Jagger Um and I
have a second from Carolyn and from Russ Marty you're the new chair Congratulations Forgot the vote Sorry Okay It's my first time doing it All right Can I I'll have a vote for Mr
Jagger I Oh you're not voting Voting for Jagger Yes Yes Okay Russ Yes Sarah Bob Sarah Yes Yes I vote Job I'll abstain You'll abain Job Yes And Carolyn
Yes Yes Okay And of course I vote yes It's been a pleasure working with Marty Actually Steve and I worked on a couple projects the shared services agreements Um did a lot of work on that Um and you know it proved to be extremely beneficial and
it's it's still in the works uh for some of them So um it's been a pleasure working with you and this and this role It will be um a truly a tremendous asset to the committee Um you got big shoes to fill I I do Um I I have been always been stunned at the amount of creativity that
Dennis has brought to this function um backed by hard data and research that I'm not even sure how to replicate but I have your phone number so I will uh make sure that if I'm stuck I I'll I'll give you a call I also think that um notwithstanding the fact that we lost
Steve to a higher calling um the the capability of the membership has increased significantly over the last couple of years while I've been a member of of MTRA And I I I feel as if uh we have a really powerful team here sitting
at this table today um that I I think we'll be able to continue to do uh the great work that Dennis has has started for us Yeah but we need his charts Well let me let me make a few comments This is I've been leading up to this for
the last several years and I I think it's safe to say that I recruited a lot of the folks who are you who are on this committee to make sure that there is that base of of competence and experience and and we definitely have it It's it's the most significant
uh it's the most significant external resource the city has in my opinion and it by the way other towns are looking at doing something like this where May Point wants to do it Yep Middle Township Upper Township wants to do it So uh I'm not I I still live on Lafayette Street
and I'll be available anytime you want me to If there I'll even work with special projects if you think that's a good thing for me to do But I do uh I do appreciate your kind words I did want to make also another comment I I I suggested everybody on the committee
revisit the uh resolution that created the committee I sent it all to you to make sure that that that you understand everything that's in that and what you're expected to do by that resolution Also Moren sent around a resolution that the city passed which clarifies and and
organizes a lot of the stuff that I I was never able to do because I was basically running a a one-man operation for a couple years and got got used to not doing it So uh take a look at those two resolutions They're they're the charter They're the dual charter of of
MTRA and I'm sure you guys will do a great job I'll be watching you Thank you Thank you [Applause] A motion to adjurnn Second I'm actually um pretty heavily involved
in Houston theater now Well congratulations Thank you I really appreciate the support And I had to Well I'll tell you that they have relationships So let me
know Yeah Number one but Oh no I listen to the book Tell me you're Thank you for being here So anyway congratulations on the golf course
Okay [Music] Congratulations Boy that was hell of a meeting [Music] No it's okay look forward to working with All right Thank you I have some ideas
the tourism getting like good luck on uh Yeah [Music] Absolutely That's really I'm probably not going to be here My
colleagues will my my mid colleagues will be here Um my husband will be away [Music] fell you could I figured this out before you got involved with it right and in this particular case
lean on But you have But you have So hopefully good luck Yeah good luck Yeah because right now still think I think we have more I'm not sure I guess
we need to have what organizations are in actually get what's his name i charity last year Oh so good
She doesn't seem to commit to beat her up She had a contrarian view to most of us