Uh good afternoon. It's uh 2 minutes past 1:00. Uh we have our MTRA meeting um rescheduled for today. And um we'll start with the pledge of allegiance. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I will uh start with the reminder at the bottom of the uh agenda that our next meeting is October 9th and we will go
back to our fall hours of 3 p.m. I have inquired about the possibility of making them later, but um city would like to have an employee turn the taping on for us. So, we will be uh the latest that we can that we can start is three o'clock.
So, uh, October 9th and, uh, we already know that at least one item that we're going to be asked to provide some counsel on. So, we'll look forward to that. Moren, do you want to start us off with just a quick update? >> I actually don't really have much. I mean, I think your agenda is fairly
full. Um, there's any number of things going on right now, so I don't have anything specific, Marty, but thank you. Sure. Um, one thing that I have not gotten to yet is that we have been asked to submit minutes. I will watch the
tapes and I'll put the minutes together. At our next meeting, I'll have the minutes for all three meetings um for us to approve. Uh the the from those minutes, I did actually go back and rewatch the last meeting to make sure that I was
capturing what everyone's thoughts were about what we wanted to work on as a group. I I hope that most of you are seeing the things that you wanted to see us um focusing on and it doesn't mean that each of these is going to result in action. Um I won't go through them in in
detail. U but I've tried to capture the uh the topics that everyone felt as if were important for us to be focusing on. If there's anything missing um please let me know. Um and certainly we can add or subtract from this as we go.
>> Any questions on the list? Moren and I participated in a city meeting this morning on um the beach concession agreements and uh MTRA's role. We we made some recommendations last year. We revisited those a little bit this morning. Uh and
the culmination of this will be that the city will be putting together their proposed approach to the breach concession agreements which are five-year agreements that expire at the end of this season. Um these are for as I mentioned at the last meeting um the
um the the the chairs and umbrellas, the concessions, anything that's um that you're seeing being sold on the beaches. And um we had a very good conversation. It was about wanting to be sure that we are as fair
as possible and as consistent as possible. Um, with MTRA having lent the idea that there should be a rational approach to how much the minimum bid is on each parcel. Um, I say minimum bid because generally speaking, there are no
other biders, so everybody gets them for the minimum bids, but that's just the way the the process works. Uh we we did ask them to consider actually not offering every parcel up for um up for concession so that there are some
parcels that remain um without anything being sold. Um really good discussion. We talked about probably doing what what we're describing as an bit of an alle cart approach where there's a certain beginning fee that you that you have for
having your hut having your home station. Um and then um if it were a hotel there are two two zones there. Hotel zones and retail zones. If you're a hotel zone maybe a certain number of rows of chairs are and umbrellas are included in that. if you wanted
additional rows of chairs and umbrellas that that would potentially be a higher cost. Um, if you want cabanas, there are several of the of the of the vendors that have cabanas. Those would be you'd have to specify how many and there would be a price associated with each one. Um,
we don't expect that the revenue is going to change significantly. Uh, but we will be looking to try to tie the agreements over the five years to um kind of a cape budget inflation factor. it it's not necessarily the CPI because
our the city's costs do go up differently from just inflation especially because of healthcare um but something that has a um attaches a a escalator to it that again has some rational basis. >> So Martin uh just two questions. So you
said they expire the end of 2025 or 2026 >> 2025. >> And then about and how many agreements do we have out there today? Well, so uh separate agreements are probably um a dozen. >> Uh yeah, approximately I would say
between I'm sorry, between 10 and 12 number >> your your uh mic wasn't on. Sorry. >> That's okay. >> Yes, between 10 and 12 would be um >> and are most of those hotel retail split evening. >> So most of them are the beach boxes. >> That's right.
>> I think there's 700 beach boxes. So I I think the actual agreements, the beach concessions are mostly on the hotel side. There are two vendors that offer just the retail beach boxes, but the actual number of items associated there,
the one beach uh retail beach vendor concession has about 700 plus boxes. Um so I at this point in time it's of of the 10 to 12 Russ I would say you know the predominance of them are on the
hotel side and two vendors have retail what we can what we define as just retail uh related activities >> and in any of those agreements we're the expectation wouldn't be that a hotel for instance could take all the beach front.
We are a part of the discussion today um was that we're taking a look at setting up some uh baseline uh and then some parameters and then some alleart. So it's uh early early discussions and just
internal at this point. So um yeah, we're we're trying to be mindful of some of the feedback that has been received. um but still wanting to make sure that we're partnering partnering with the commercial and business enterprises in the city. So ear early discussions
>> it was discussed and um we think that there may be some encroachment and there was discussion about using drones to kind of get pictures so that when someone is exceeding their licensed area that there be the opportunity to say hey
here's a photograph um push it back. Right. Exactly. So un unencumbered by facts my perception is that uh now versus five years ago there is a lot more um of that concession that's
taken advantage of by uh by enterprises and so I guess I would ask us to at least ensure that we have tied some some relationship between the cost uh and the and the usage of same because we're
talking about five years. There's a lot that's going to be different 5 years from now. And it would seem like there should be some relationship between those two things. >> And Ron, that's why we're taking a look at a base for the bid. >> Yeah. >> And then um alakart so that that would
uh enable us to escalate should there be additional um services offered to patrons out there. So it was part of the discussion. >> Yeah. Is um is there part of that discussion going to be the number of
beach boxes for getting the hotels now just the beach boxes themselves? Um I'm not sure who put the limit on that. Was it the vendors themselves or >> our understanding is Mike that it was the vendor themselves?
So, >> we actually talked about the fact that supply. >> Well, and that and I was just going to say the vendors then I think that there should be a minimum number of boxes they're putting on the beaches to me. I used to be I mean I had a beach box for
probably 15 years >> until the vendor started skinny down on the number of boxes. In any case, it just seems to me that if that's all you're going to do, um I'd rather see somebody else in here
>> that's going to meet the demand for that beach. >> Well, and so in a an aside gig, I happen to be president of the Cape Rock Condo Association. We have 76 units there, and it is a
there's no good spot for anybody to store chairs. They send they they either stack them out in front of their unit or they or they leave them in their car and they go back and forth. >> We would love to have a beachbox alternative there. When I inquired about it a year or two ago, I was told and I
don't recall by whom that the Army Corps or some some entity did not allow uh for us to have anything at that beach. And so I I had to believe what they said. I I don't I don't have any. >> So I I can't respond to that. I think
that the certainly when you get um north of Pittsburgh, >> we do get into a little bit of territory with both um Homeland Security with the Coast Guard base and Army Corps. So um I would say that we can certainly have that discussion with um Paul uh when we
meet again and just say are there any limitations that exist um north of Pittsburgh? um you know not clear you know how that got relayed uh Ron but you know we can certainly put it out there to him um and you know one of the things that we had talked about at this
committee was that you know broadening um the availability of more concessions um and I think we need to balance that but certainly I think that there's certain areas and accommodations that could be evaluated and looked at but not sure um if someone said that I would
have imagined >> I just I don't remember who it was I would have imagined that they would have said it with some degree of certainty cuz that's not just something you sort of say no to. If you're referencing the Army Corps, then I would think that there's some legitimacy behind it. But certainly we we can follow up.
>> Yeah. And it it may have been that >> that particular beach had not been bid and so that's why it was said we can't do it. I don't know. But >> a beach box is almost as good as a dune. >> It's until they get washed away and they
do. Well, that is that is about ours was gone. >> There were about 30 that got washed away last week. And um we also discussed the age of of the of the boxes, but um I don't remember. Someone said that we're nearly as old as they were. And >> that would be me.
>> So, not that old. >> So, um there is >> You said ain't >> I mean, let's face it, we did the last contracts at the end of 2020. So, something going on at the end of 2020 that may have influenced who was willing to be in this business. >> Maybe someone will step forward and
there could be another entrant. >> Oh, I would think so. >> Yeah, >> you never know. >> Um, so we'll be we'll be coming back in October with a bit of a fleshed out um uh proposal and uh the city is looking for MTRA to endorse it. So, we we will
have the opportunity to see it. We'll have the opportunity to react to it. Um that is one of the roles that MTRE does play is that it we ser s sort of serve as a sanity check uh because of all the brilliance in this room um can can provide.
Well, part of it and and not to get too far uh away from the topic uh Martin, but I you know, it it does make you think if and hopefully wouldn't happen that if for some reason our beach tag
fees went away or a portion of it went away due to this current proposed legislation. I mean, we got to look for other sources, right? Something to keep in mind. It was there was there was some discussion about that
at the TPA meeting last week. And I think that there's maybe a little bit of misconception. It's not that the beach tags are being threatened with um being eliminated. It's that the current right, it is currently the law
that you have access to the waterfront up to the high tide line >> without a beach tag. The problem is that you can't enforce it. So it would be the loss would not from come from our elimination of beach. There's >> no I I I understood that. I I was just suggesting that even the mayor at our
meeting said as much as up 50 to 75% of our revenue could be in jeopardy. >> I I I would push back on that. I don't think that kind of percentage. All right. >> Yeah. I don't either. >> You'd have some scoff laws that would >> bring their fishing pole down, surf cast
for until 10:00 and then go settle into a chair. 20% Martin. Even if it's 20%, that's pretty significant. >> It's on the radar. Uh anything else on beach concessions? >> Okay, next topic is um something that is
uh one of our items for focus this year. Uh I did have a meeting with uh with Ron and um Mike is also helping on the subcommittee for understanding more about the municipal budget appropriations caps. Um I I did some research. There was some information
that was provided at the meeting. It was very informative. Um I stole the information that's on the next couple of pages from something that I found on the internet. I'm not a college student so I can't be accused of plagiarism. Um it was it did a great job of
explaining it and I figured why should I try to rewrite it? I'm just going to steal from the town of Bloomfield. But basically um there's a 2.5% cap on appropriations and um that is a limiting factor that the city
faces because wages and benefit costs certainly go up by more than 2.5% a year. Uh it is normal to for the town by for for most towns by ordinance to increase that to 3.5%. That's allowed within the
law. And then the the important aspect of it is that there are expense are exclusions and exceptions that can be pulled out of that calculation. Now, that's a double-edged sword because mathematically, if you're starting with
your budget, let's just, you know, I'm just making up numbers. If your budget is a million dollars and you have a half a million dollars of exclusions, now your adjusted budget is a half a million, that's what you apply the 2.5 or 3.5% to. Okay? So you're you're
you're reducing the the the denominator when you when you have the exception or the exclusion, but at the same time what falls into the exceptions and exclusions is not subject to the cap. So to a certain extent, there's a balancing that has to occur between having the
exceptions and exclusions be as small as possible to give the 2.5% some meat versus as large as possible because now you've got more that isn't subject to the cap. And that's a that's one of the challenges of municipal budgeting.
>> But if you were to take it to extreme, if everything were not subject to the cap, >> you wouldn't need the 2.5%. >> Then who would Right. >> Okay. It's then then we're just uncapped and the cap is not even relevant, >> right? >> So it just seems like the more that we can remove from the cap,
>> the the better, I think, in hindsight. So, one of the recommendations that MTRA had made in the past was that those beach concession revenues should be in the beach utility and they're currently not. Uh, we had that conversation with the city manager and with uh with Kevin
Haney and they confirmed, yes, we we haven't done that and they said, "Oh, that's a good idea, but we can't just take revenue out of the general fund and put it in the utility because now your general fund won't balance." So, we will
likely look to accomplish that over time as we continue to try to identify expenses that also belong in the beach utility, not in the general fund. And that's that's the iterative process that we're going that we're going to be going through. And that's what the city is looking for from METRA is to make
recommendations along those lines. Um, less relevant for us on page three is that there also is a 2% cap on how much you can increase property taxes in any given year. and less relevant because we haven't had a increase in six years. Um there was
discussion at the TPA meeting about maybe it's time to think about making sure that there is something that is being put into the millage rate because that then helps to build the the the uh the surpluses.
A quick question, the 2% um is does that apply to just the average or canon? No, like if you do a revaluation or revaluation, some people may be going up 20%.
That's this is not doesn't sub um restrict that individual. It's the sum of the >> it's the sum of the total. >> The sum of the total. Okay. >> Yeah. the whole all ratables. >> So we will be able to increase appropriate properties by more than 2%.
>> If we did a revaluation, >> yes, >> but we wouldn't certain properties. Yes. But the overall number would still be >> over overall we're going to Yeah. max two or zero. >> 2%. >> Yeah. on on page four. Um, another part
of the balancing is that it is a benefit to try to set your budget up in a way that you aren't using all of the cap and you can carry the cap for three years. That gives you greater flexibility to be able to manage in year two when you um
maybe don't have enough from the cap to cover it. you have cap left over from the two prior years that you can then use and and that's something that the city does do on a regular basis. There is still 2023 cap money that hasn't been used yet >> which as an example um is in years where
you're doing salary negotiations contracts um which we have just gone through or if you um get big hits on health and welfare. Um so there are circumstances in which having that flexibility and that additional money in
the cap balances out um for those types of unanticipated expectations since the majority of the city budget is personnel expenses. >> So does that mean we have 6% available to us? >> It's not the full amount of the of the
of the cap. >> It's not the amount. Right. It's the unused portion. Right. >> Right. >> The unused portion. But I thought we didn't use any of the any of it. >> No. Each year the when you set up your 3.5% you use a portion of that to cover your expenses, >> right? >> If you've done a good job of budgeting,
you hopefully have something left over to be able to carry forward. >> Maybe it's a quarter of it. Maybe it's a third of it. >> Remembering that once you take the exceptions and exclusions out that two 2.5 3.5% number becomes fairly small.
>> Yeah. Because if you, you know, to Marine's point, if you take out health and welfare and other things like that out of the cap, then that's those are big pieces that you're taking out. >> I think personally, one of the things that I learned the most about from that
discussion was bonding. Bonding is a very controversial. It's a topic that's brought up a lot here in the city of Cape May. And I think that
I wanted to make sure that we as a group understood how the bonding process works um so that we can be um educated consumers as well as being able to talk about bonding knowledgeably with people that we talk with. Um
debt service principal and interest are an exclusion. So that's a big number that comes out. It's currently how about half of the total exclusions is debt service.
>> Okay. Um what we learned what I've learned in the last cup last two weeks because it's come up a couple of times is that short-term bonding is really the tool that we need to be able to use. Okay. So that when we do the delaw plant, for example, that has a 40-year life by
state by the state standards of accounting, we can balance that with things that have a five-year life and hopefully get a 15-year bond life so that the bonds that we would actually issue will be much shorter in duration. Why is that important? Because we are
all as as citizens of the of the city concerned about the legacy that we leave for our children and our grandchildren. We don't want them to be carrying having to pay for the debt that for the services that we decided to put in in 2026. The the other side of that a little bit
is that if the services that we're putting in are being enjoyed by the future generation, they should pay a portion of that. >> I think that's only fair. And to a certain extent, if we if we were to get to a point where we could no longer afford the bonding, okay, then maybe we
lengthen the term to be able to reduce the amount of debt service in any given year. We're not currently in that situation. >> Um we actually are able to borrow at less than we >> and we earn >> than we earn. >> Yeah. So yeah, it's crazy to
>> and that would be my concern in going short term is that if in fact what we saw was interest rates were going to be going up >> and you can be relatively sure sometimes um I would not like to see us short-term
bonding. I mean, you can ride it up and maybe that's not so bad because our return on our investments are going up as well, but >> um >> and it's the surpluses that allow us to to borrow as low as at as low as rate as can. >> Yeah. >> And the city earns a million dollars in
interest on that on the surplus. >> Yeah. So, B bonding I I kind of liken it to there's mortgage debt and there's credit card debt.
Okay, mortgage debt allows you to build equity in your home and plan for your future and is typically at a fairly low rate. Credit card debt is bad debt. You you you hopefully never have car carry credit card debt at 18 or 30% or whatever it is.
So I I don't think that we should just put all debt into one bucket and say debt is bad. Some debt is good and in fact very necessary because >> when we have things that
members of the public may want us to currently expense that are bondable, that then comes out of the calculation of the that's subject to the 2.5%. And it's a critical exercise that that the city goes through to keep things
balanced. So I I I want to I I want to spread the word that we need to think about what kind of debt we're taking on and that there there is such a concept of as good debt. Mhm. >> So, one of the things I I struggle a
little bit with is my paranoia about the federal funding for some really important things uh to the city of Kate May going away. And so I'm I I've not been involved in that process before and
the grant applications and some of those, but and and so I guess other than being paranoid, I I wonder does debt if we if we if we had a $30 million additional surplus, for example, and
therefore could write a check for a new dale plant, uh does that mitigate our ability to get funding from somewhere? where versus if we had an extra $30 million in debt. So, we say, "Oh, we have to have this funding because we
can't afford it." I Are those are those things ever uh considered? >> I Well, I you know, there's there's a lot of different funding sources just specifically on the U Del there's IBank um there's federal money. Um you know,
there's there's a number of different things. But conceptually, I think what you're saying, Ron, is look, you know, does it make more sense for us to build as much surplus as we can so we can just go out and buy it. Um, and I think, uh, to Marty's point, it is a balancing. Um,
and I think that when you look at how much we have in surplus, it makes us attractive even to something like the eye bank to say, "Oh, look, this is a solid organiz solid community." Yeah. >> Um, and they've got the money. Um, and it makes us more attractive when you're
looking to ask the Army Corps to invest in a seaw wall or or those types of things or FEMA. Um, so what and then one of the other things is when you're going after that kind of grant money and there's, you know, multiple sources specifically on the Delaw plant, you
want to be able to do this in phases and that's something that's being discussed now. You know, rather than doing big bang on the Delaw plant, what components can we do? so we can continue to move this down the road as those conversations or those dollars are made
available. And yeah, there obviously there's a concern, you know, what would be going on at the federal level and how that would trickle down and impact us locally. Um it also means it's the reason why we're not jumping into doing some of these projects because quite
frankly they're big projects and have significant impact on the city to the positive but not anything that we necessarily want to underwrite. So it's that balancing act of >> waiting to see what happens, waiting to see what comes and especially in the dale plan. I mean, you know, Mike knows
a little bit more on this from the mechanic standpoint, but there's opportunities to phase components of that and bring things online that would sustain our the quality of our water and our water supply. Um, and currently we're evaluating what they are and what
they look like and what kind of money we already got through the pipeline to start on those. So something that might you know normally projects take one or two years the del plan could be a project that could be five to six years before we would see a complete conversion might be longer just based on
that um the seaw wall is a different project um it's FEMA funded um you know all hoping that it comes through it's of critical import um to the you know um beach area um the value the valuation on
that from FEMA's perspective is the loss to homes and properties down at that side of town would be upwards of $80 million as opposed to an investment of you know 20 20 plus you know so that's you know clearly that's ma that's just
math you know um and probably the 80 million might not even be a current number given the valuations of the home more than that >> so you know it's it's those kinds of things you can't really start a seaw wall project internally in the city of Kate May I mean you know what are you going to do one block at a time we
couldn't even afford that So I I as Marty's saying, there's there's reasons to bond. Um and we have a very good uh bond, you know, adviser in Leon Costello who has done this with the city for over 20 years. You know, he looks at us and
says, "You're making the right decisions." So he's the professional. He, you know, gives us good advice and we're still able to get decent rates because we've got money in surplus. So we look like a good investment. without putting my >> CPA green eye shade on too much. Okay,
we wouldn't even be allowed to use the surplus to pay for the del plant even if we wanted to. Okay, because that would be against the accounting principles. But >> even a long-term capital project. >> Correct. It's a but if we wanted to, we wouldn't be able to fit it under the
2.5% cap. >> Okay. The the >> except except you that would be in the water utility, wouldn't it? Which is not subject to cap. But we would not know that. Okay. Yeah. >> Um the other thing is that um I I I know
that Mike mentioned it at our last meeting and it really resonated with me last week with Aaron coming as close as it did. That surplus, you know, is critically important for us to have if we ever were to have >> um a storm hit us. Um and then that al
that would not be using that money would not be subject to the cap. Besides, >> that's really the purpose of the surplus is for Yeah. for disaster preparation, not so much for capital expenditures. >> Right. Besides the seaw wall and the delaw plant, what are the other major
expenditures the city faces over the next few years that we would need outside funding like like we do for those two projects? >> Paving. >> A lot of street paving. >> Yep. >> Um the city streets not not the countyy's sort of done their part. We have some things that we need to take
care of. Beachfilled. Does that uh is that is there a concern? Yeah, >> it could pull back on us. You know, >> it could, but but I thought we had a separate agreement as it relates to Beachville >> had one >> versus the other communities up the coast.
>> Um not wellversed on this, Russ, but I thought ours was with the Army Corps. Um so my recollection is that was sort of a 20 >> 50 years >> 50 years. Okay. And we're already we are
uh it was 1980 roughly. So >> So we're 45 in. >> We're not there yet. >> Yeah, we got a couple more to squeeze out. But again, it's you know they're funded federally too. So >> that leads to the the next topic. The fact that the city has successfully decreased their debt ratio by 43% since
2018. >> Yeah. >> Okay. we're down to uh 0.9% where the state allows us to have 3.5% of the three-year average of all all ratable properties in town. So, um
when I spoke with TPA last week, that's one of the things that I wanted to make sure was being thought about. The city has done a fantastic job of managing their long-term debt and deserves a lot of credit for doing that. They didn't
have to, but they they did it anyway. From 1.58% down to 0.9%. That's pretty good. >> That's Leon Costello, like she said. >> Um, and and I just think that, you know, the the takeaway is
>> been around a long time. bonding. It may seem to make sense to bond less, especially on shorter term items that some in the city would consider to be departmental expenses. But if we have the ability to bond those items
in the balancing of the budget, it may be a good thing. And I I think that that's the message that the city wants to get across is that they're very thoughtful about the process. This is not a matter of trying to hide anything in a bonding resolution. It is a matter of this is a very necessary part of
municipal budgeting. >> And I can just say and I know that Mike would probably agree when council looks at those items and those lists and what's presented to us, it gives a lot of consideration to what we're being asked to keep in the operating budget uh
versus what we're bonding for um by item. I mean, you know, we we each individually sort of go through that book and understand it. Um, and again, it goes back to unanticipated expenses having to hit the budget and the cap. Um and in years when you cannot anticipate
and we've had a couple of those significant increases in health care um needing to evaluate you know what we pay our employees and contracts coming online line you know and then there's to keep in mind both for for uh certainly
in the case of the police department um pension obligations you know are not not insignificant. So, you know, just some of those things. That's the reason why someone looks at an item and thinks, "Why are you bonding for that? It makes no sense. It should be a departmental
expense." And, you know, we're looking at it saying, "We need more of the money to be able to have flexibility on the operating side as opposed to, you know, trying to put that into the operating budget." So, >> any other thoughts on the where we are
so far? I mean, there's more work to be done here. Uh the end result of this will be recommendations to the city about ways that maybe um like we had found with the with the beach concession revenue where we can help the city to um
stay within the 2.5 3.5% cap. Um we'll look at the impact of potentially increasing the tax rate um and not what because of the fact that it can potentially help long term with this.
What's the uh estimated annual revenue that comes from the beach uh uh agreements? >> The beach concession agreements? Is it's not a big number. >> That's what I meant. How much is it? Half million. >> No, I don't. Yeah, I wouldn't say so.
>> Okay. So, it's not a huge >> I would say >> What do you think, Marty? One 100 under 100. >> So, it's really It's really >> Gee, I happen to have it right here. 175,000. Okay, I was going to say
>> got lucky. >> All right. Um, I hope that was helpful. It was to me. I mean, it really was um something that I mean, I've known as a while as a CPA that insurance accounting is different from healthcare accounting, which is different from not for-profit accounting. Um, I I've never had never
had a client of in municipal tech municipality. So, uh, it was eye openening for me. I hope it was for you as well. Um the other the next topic I wanted to talk about is again um a bit educational for us as as members of MTRA um to make
sure that we have the uh vocabulary to be able to talk intelligently about the subject of municipal tax reassessment and revaluation. All right. Um it was triggered by the fact that um as I was included in the
article that that I sent from the Herald, North Wildwood decided that they're going to do a reassessment And um in in in the sort of the preface to the meeting that I had on the other topic, I I I sort of addressed it relatively quickly with the city manager
and he um very was very um helpful in pointing out that there's a difference between a reassessment and a revaluation. Okay, reassessment is being done with internal resources. It is not as thorough. Um it generally is not even complete of all of the ratable
properties in town. is generally targeted. So a city or town may do different sections of the town at different points in time. A reevaluation on the other hand is much more thorough. It's done by an outside firm as it was
explained in the article and from the research that I've done. It's inside, it's outside, it's >> everything and it's all properties in town. Okay. Um there have not there has not been either a reassessment or reevaluation in Cape May County since
2018. Stone Harbor was the last one. And that this is despite the fact that in the in the graph that was included in the Herald article, virtually every town other than Woodbine is below what the state standard is of that your assessed value should not be less than 85%. But
it's should not be less than not can not be less than. Um the other limiting factor is there are two firms in the state that are that are licensed to do this and obviously real estate values throughout the state not just in Cape May County have significantly
appreciated over the course of the last several years. We we all we would all be asking for the same from this from trying to get resources from the same pool >> and the re just to uh for my clarification um the revaluation process can't be kicked off by a
municipality right that's >> it can be >> it can be I knew the reassessment could be I didn't know the revaluation could be as >> the reassessment generally comes from the the Kate May county tax assessor notifies that >> the assessment comes from Kate May county >> that's my understanding Russ. Yes. And
but the re-evaluation can be done >> because the reevaluation requires a lot more re resources, right? >> No, it was the oppos the opposite. You have it backwards. >> I have it backwards. Yeah. >> So, the revaluation is what uh North Wildwood's doing. >> No, they're doing a reassessment,
>> which means they're using >> internal people. >> Well, that's what I just said, >> right? So, the revaluation is >> the reevaluation is external and is county driven. >> So, it's and the reassessment is local. I think you guys are all confused. >> Yeah, help me out.
>> Isn't the reassessment when the company comes in and they go around everywhere? >> What's the revaluation? >> So, what re So, what North Wildwood is doing if they're doing it internally is a reevaluation. >> Reassessment. >> Reassessment. >> That doesn't make any sense. >> Why does it not explo expand on that?
>> So, how how are they doing a reassessment internally? You can do them internally. >> Yes, that's how >> you can do both of them internally. No, you can't do revaluation with the article on >> reevaluation is external. Yep. >> Yeah. Because that the article said specifically that North Wildwood was
being the properties were being reassessed >> and it was not being driven by the county. It was being driven by North Wildwood. Right. >> So that's why I'm suggesting that revaluation really requires the county, right? >> No. I think I think you could step forward and decide to do a revaluation
>> and pay for that yourself. >> Yes. >> Well, either way, we would have to pay for it. watches over your >> the revaluation. The county is much more involved. >> Well, it requires someone to come to your property. They do an complete assessment of both the outside and the inside of your property. So, I mean,
probably upwards of four to $500,000, you know, um or maybe more for them for us to hire a firm. I mean, that >> we're sort of waiting for the county. I I don't >> Yeah, everyone is. >> That doesn't mean that you can't do it. It's just that >> talk about the re
>> North Wildwood is stepping out of the line now, right? >> And do we know what their logic was and why? >> But just because they're doing a reassessment doesn't mean that the county couldn't do a re-evaluation and come up with different numbers, right? >> The county doesn't do the reevaluation >> that the c that the county would require it or they don't they're not
>> they just say Cape May you need to do a reevaluation. Okay. I don't know whether they have to approve the outcome. >> Well, that's what I'm wondering. Let's go on to the next point which I think is important. Okay. Okay. A reevaluation or a reassessment does not increase taxes. >> No, no. I I I get all
>> just changes the millage rate. >> But you could come up with a different number in a reassessment than you would in a revaluation. >> Correct. >> Right. >> I think you definitely would. >> And you will come up with a different number. So that's why I'm asking about North Wildwood specifically. By jumping the line and doing their own
reassessment, they could tell these a homeowner, "Well, here's your reassessment. By the way, in your particular case, you're getting a reduction. If the re-evaluation is done, that could that that could change dramatically. >> Absolutely.
>> Um, North Wildwood did one probably about a reassessment. Probably >> a reassessment. >> Yeah. Uh, five to eight years ago because I have friends who had properties there and, you know, they all got letters and they had increases and they all needed to if they wanted to
appeal, um, they had to substantiate their appeal. Um, you know, so there was quite a bit >> the the the county would have to come in and say that we don't go we don't believe that your reassessment is accurate and you need to now go do a reevaluation.
>> What did we do the last time? >> I would expect we did a reevaluation. >> I I can tell you somebody came inside my house. >> So that would be a revaluation. >> Yeah. >> I was reassessed >> at the time. No, >> I was reassessed
>> 1949 that house. >> So it's not it's not the taxes for each individual taxpayer haven't gone up. >> Oh, >> towns h homes are reassessed all the time. >> Yeah. >> In Cape May. >> Oh, I know. Okay. Know that >> um
>> from the information that I that I was provided with, uh we're at least a year or two away from anything being done in Cape May. And what would trigger that? >> 185. >> Who would trigger that?
>> Well, this on the reassessment, the city >> reevaluation. I'm sorry. >> That would be the Kate May County tax assessor. She she makes the determination and then she notifies the the local municipality. >> Thank you. >> You're required to do this. You know, these three townships, burrows, municipalities, you're on the list for
2026. >> That does come from the county. >> That Yes. Yes. >> And that's the evaluation. >> Yes. So they they're getting the reports being released by the New Jersey Division of Taxation on October 1 and then the county said they're going to
mess around with it for a while and then they'll let us know what they're doing. >> But remember that the whole state is in the same situation and there are two firms that do this. >> Oh, >> now there may be an opportunity there to open a you can you can open a uh a tax assignment. That's >> right. Ron business.
>> There you go. Right. Does anybody know how that affects your uh insurance >> even though you're not actually paying dollars anymore? >> How would that >> I don't think my tied to my taxes. >> I tell you, Bob, because they the the insurance carrier comes in and does
their own evaluation. >> Yes. Whe they don't really look at that. They they do their own right. >> Of course, you take a big risk if you go with an assessment. School taxes are based on >> market value. Yeah.
>> Well, on the previous conversation we had, the debt limit we is based on the assessment. Well, >> Mark, the market value. >> Oh, it is. >> Y >> All right. So, the word said the assessment. >> So, the the state the state and the and the county and the district, they're all telling us how much Cape May properties
are worth. It doesn't factor into our tax base. But I mean, you know, for those of us that have built homes in the last 10 years, we really would like to see this
done sooner than later because I And now the city's was very fair. I understand. Um, and what they did was they looked at the market value of the home uh when it was done and they notched it back 20% I
believe which kind of I think that's what they guess the average uh was of the market number that we were behind. The data that you have here says no it it's a lot >> because it's it's really accelerated bigger the article more than two to one.
>> If you don't like it you can appeal it to the county. That was the other aspect from the research. >> But no, I don't I it's not that whether I like it or not. It's the guy who's got the house that was built in 1949 like I did that is way low right
is way >> about a third of the taxpayers will see an increase in their tax bill. A third will see a decrease in their tax bill and a third will stay about the same. That's sort of how it all works out assuming that you have a balanced budget going in. Right. So, yes, it will be the
long-term homeowner that hasn't improved their home in 40 years would potentially be in that one-third that would see it would see an increase, >> right? >> Uh, you know, and so we'll see when it happens, but I wanted to make sure that we as MTRA understood the difference between a revaluation and a
reassessment. >> The city is pointing towards a revaluation, not a reassessment. From my research, the reassessments are more difficult to implement because they're so subjective. There's a a lot more appeals that that happened in the reassessment, >> but still, >> yes,
>> we're going to wait until the K May County tax comes to us. Is that right? >> Not necessarily. >> Not necessarily. I saw Marine nod her head. >> Well, that was my understanding. I'm not sure what Paul shared with you. >> So, again, it could be decades before those two firms can get to Cape May.
Well, what you know, back when I was in office, >> uh Joe Fox was crazy about this all this tax stuff and >> he he found out >> forward in uh Joe found out that some of these big cities like Norc and Jersey
City, they hadn't done anything for like I don't know, I forget now, but it was like maybe 40 years, 50 years. It was crazy. And and he was really at war with the county board. uh saying that we don't have to do it and stuff, but I'm
just throwing that out. >> In this particular issue, Moren and I are not disagreeing. We we we don't know the answer. Okay. It could be that we wait until the county tells us to. It could be that we decided to go forward. >> Well, the reality is there's no impact to the overall tax situation. It is a
fairness, right, >> between fairness issue between homeowners. It is. Yes. At the end of the day, if the county doesn't come to us, then what? It would be city council that makes that decision. >> But here's the thing. There's a lot of people homeowners don't understand all
this that we're gone back and forth on. And you'll you'll hear you'll hear from them. Believe me, >> I agree. It's um that's why I I wanted to on both of these last two topics, I felt as if it was important for MTRA to have the vocabulary to be able to talk
intelligently. somebody really has to come and and it's it's an educational process even for some of us we don't have all the answers. >> Yeah. I almost feel like we need to figure out how to educate the real estate community, the realtors. Uh
because they are the folks that really I mean my wife as a realtor. She gets these questions all of the time and I can only imagine that everybody else does uh as well. Um, so it's something to think about some educational uh venue
for that. >> Well, we'll see what's in the newspaper next week. >> Well, to a certain extent though it would be helpful. You could have reevaluation external resources. You know, you could have a list and then reassessment internal, you know, really you could just have a couple bullet
point. I mean, >> well, so if you have a re-evaluation, can you appeal the same way that you can the reassessment? >> Yes. Um, it's >> who do you appeal to though? >> The counties has a board because for for reassessment you appeal to the city.
>> For the for reassessment, you appeal the city. Do you still appeal to the city with a reval or do you appeal the county? >> I don't there's a they >> remembering that it would have been an outside firm that came up with the assessment. So, whatever the appeal process is, it would go back to their
data and say, would you please check your data on this property and tell us whether tell us whether it was fair fairly assessed or not >> and the city would be hiring even though it's only two companies. We would have our own agreement with those companies.
So I would think your appeal would be to the city. >> I would think so. I don't know for a fact so I don't want to speak. >> You're probably right. But there people that we don't you don't know. I know that with all the confusion around this
whole process, like I would think that everyone knows it's coming, so why not get in line now if there's only two firms that do it? Like if they're like, "Sure, we'll see you in January." Okay, maybe we can wait. But if they're not going to get here, like I think part of
the challenge is is not knowing h what the determination of the county is, who they're going to pri prioritize. So going out and trying to engage with a firm that we may not we might be number 12 on the list, you know, or something. >> It's expensive, especially if it doesn't
generate revenue. Whatever the expense associated with that revaluation, that's sunk cost, >> right? But, you know, perhaps there's like a letter of intent kind of thing like, >> well, we're already digitizing the map in anticipation of it. Yes, the city has already taken that step. So, we're
getting ready for it. It's just a matter of when and how the the switch gets thrown. Martin, I I think we ought to be able to squeeze a half a million out of a, you know, a little tiny mill change. Uh, whoops. You know,
we did a wrong calculation. May ended up with half a million extra dollars. Okay, it's paid for. >> Your your address is what? >> Good discussion. Thank you for all participating. Okay. Um, so that moves us to the next
type topic, which is what else is on everyone's minds? What's what's what are people thinking about? Um, what have you been hearing that's uh might be of interest to the group that we can expand on a little bit? Well, so Marine, I I'm bringing this up
only because um I know you're all over it, but I do think I do think that uh given a couple of the topics that came up with the uh with the uh audit that occurred, the
ones that bo didn't most of them didn't bother me to be honest with you. I figured that's clerical error. Somebody forgot to pay a premium. The ones that bother me are the ones you've been part of this for quite some time and I know Dennis always was concerned whenever we saw that there were expenditures that
were over individual budget lines or >> things things not being reconciled. >> That's right. Yeah. And and and so then there were a couple of those that came that came out of this audit. So from an MTRA perspective, at least from my perspective, that would be those are
the only ones I'm most concerned about. >> Yeah. >> And and I guess what what's the process and is it possible perhaps in a future meeting to to give us a bit of an update on >> Sure. So we have a I I'll call it a working document of every um item that
was detailed in the audit. Um, I don't have it in front of me, Russ. So, you know, let me just say it's >> what I what I asked for when I met with Paul and and Kevin was what was the audit finding? Uh, what's the action
plan? Who's responsible? Because this is not all CFO related um activities in in some cases and we targeted a completion date. Okay, that has been updated um with activities that are getting remediated and you know worked on
actively at this point in time. I have um the first meeting will probably be in the next couple of weeks um because we put that document together uh maybe in the beginning of August. So giving them a couple weeks to kind of work on some you know things that were easy not easy
fixes but things were like aha you know that who you know why wasn't that done those kinds of things. Um, so I'll meet with them then and those meetings will occur once a month. The completion date for the majority of these audit uh
findings is between October 1st and December 31st. Some of them are year-end processing um reconciliations. There are one or two that sort of uh bleed into the beginning of the year just by the nature of of the finding.
So, I'm happy to come back to this group in October and give you an overview. You know, we had 20, we're at, you know, 50%, you know, those kinds of things. Look, you know, um, every year there's audit findings. When Mike was on
council, he was involved with working with um the CFO on this. In healthcare, um, you know, the reason why you hire a firm sometimes is so that they can find things. um regardless of how good organizations run. This is not a defense, but you know, we we when I was,
you know, working um in several capacities, we thought we had everything buttoned up and you'd get an audit finding and be like, "What?" You know, that has never been brought up before, like how did they find that and those kinds of things. Admittedly, there there's some cleanup activity. Um >> yeah, no, I'm not I'm not trying to make
a >> Oh, no. I I know you're not. No, I just this is more for the you know, sort of the forward public speaking, you know. Yes, there are things that need to be, you know, tightened up and reconciled and and those were the conversations and they're being worked on. Um, and, you know, I took it upon myself to say, "No,
I want to sit down, um, and be actively engaged with it and ask them to put together a document that I considered an executive summary and that could be looked at and and complete it." >> Perfect. >> That's where we are. >> Yeah, that's what uh, you know, when I was doing that, I would take a look at
that report. I put together a document that Kevin and I both agreed on. Said, "Here's the list of all the things that can be done and should be done and then gave, you know, not regular. They were
several months apart, you know, uh, reports at council meetings and >> yeah, that's >> but you know, we never got to the end where everything was done." >> Yeah. So, I felt that, you know, having known the work that Mike had done in the past, um I felt that at this point in time, it just needed to be a little bit
more um involved on, you know, from a council level. >> No, that's that's perfect. I I sort of equated having been involved, as Michael knows, with uh kitchen inspections. I sort of look at it the same way. You always find stuff, but you put together your list and you you follow through and
and look for the corrections. So yeah, I just think it would be helpful for this committee to on a couple of the items, not you know most of them but on a couple of the items to have that. The only other one really was uh on the that I had Martin was on recycling. We had talked about the fact that as we as we
come to the end of the year that we were going to have a look back and and I don't know if if that's still on the plan. >> Yeah. So actually Paul just gave an update at the last council meeting. Um, and it has been going very well and I've talked to Eric a couple times. Um they
have we have um pretty much gotten conformity. Um and for actually uh somewhat on the residential side where you know even though none of the those um uh ordinance language changed um just getting people to understand sort of um
the recycling materials how they should be boxed for putting things out when they should be putting out lids on containers etc. Um on the business side, they have been working with all of the businesses. Um and they feel very strongly that um they've they've got
everybody sort of uh you know in line. If there's anyone that's looking for a private vendor, they're giving them the latitude to do that and working with them. We will have a report probably in November, but uh both Eric and Frank, I mean, Frank was going out every morning and checking in the beginning. Um so
things have gone very well. Um and you know from their perspective things have improved vastly. >> Yeah. Part of it was obviously whether or not the uh the guidelines should change because of you know what took place whether the cost in other words looking at it from an holistic I I did
listen to the council meeting. Okay. All right. So that was part partially was that that that we were still going to do that sort of evaluation from that perspective >> in November was what he >> in November and that's still the same that's still set up to >> but again it fits back into the cap discussion even if the city wanted to
collect more recycling. They may not have the staff to be able to do it and they can't hire more staff because they're bumping up against the cap >> and also capital to be able to purchase. And one thing that I I think I've mentioned this previously here at this
table, the number one risk factor, risk management factor is workers comps associated with uh employees in public works. So um that you know from even from the GIF's perspective, we'd have to be walking a very fine line. Um so you
know I I think the fact that you know they've gotten compliance um and were able to manage that within the current staffing model >> um is you know very good news and and thanks thankfully that you know all of the commercial um businesses were able to conform. Um but you know they worked
with them. I will say that the communication from the the leadership and and public works as well as city administration on this um has been very good. >> That's great. So Moren to your point about the risk associated with um
employees in that in that capacity some logic had to have been uh put in place some number of years ago when the city decided to take over recycling uh from private uh contractors and uh you know today we have a situation where the
city uh workers obviously collect recycling and gold medal and Dave's trash and Pineland and waste management that all drive their trucks around the same the same routes uh collecting trash has
it doesn't it's it's not logical to me and but but perhaps there's some logic I'm not understanding as to why we have those two different models in place and how we how we wound up there and and whether we should whether that should be the >> so recycling was taken over by the city because they had a contract with the
vendor who was increasing the prices. Uh the second piece of it was at that point in time recycling was um had a revenue stream. Um and that changed in about 2017. Um and the city assumed the responsibil had assumed the responsibility because there was some
revenue for it that that changed. Um and so it's no longer you know any kind of a revenue source. It's a cost expense. Um and so the balance now is we can manage a certain portion of it. um you know and it's been you know all we've we've
reconciled to providing that service for residents. Um the accommodation on the commercial was we looked at a couple other municipalities that have a similar model uh and adopted their um ordinance language quite frankly to say we can
accommodate up to a certain amount. beyond that it becomes uh too it would require additional resources from a personnel standpoint and additional resources from equipment standpoint. So
>> yeah. No, no, I understand the recycling piece. I'm what I'm trying to understand is what why I mean if if I were looking at this >> from a strictly business uh perspective, then I would say that one of those models presumably is better than the
other. Either a either a single, you know, municipal paying model because it's so efficient and uh the city, you know, contract labor rates are so much better. Therefore, we should do recycling and trash with that model or
or no, that's therefore we should be >> I don't think that the city um at least as a council member, I'm certainly not interested in getting into the trash business to add that on. Um I think that the baseline accommodation that we have right now for residents for to enter
into um a discussion to say we're taking that away, you know, would upset people um at this point, which is why we introduced some component to support the commercial businesses, the commercial entities in a limited fashion. Um so you
know in my mind to go further into the business um recycling at least we have the ability to take that up to um burley >> drop off for that and we and it's it's the material is sourced to the different types trash is a whole different thing.
I'll tell you that's that that discussion just gives me the I get a little bit ill in my stomach when we talk about you know us taking over trash again. >> Yeah. To to be clear I'm not that way. I was kind of the way but I was trying to
use the other I think from an MTRA perspective that we ought to be examining how we get out of the recycling. >> That was where I was going. I just and there's there's, you know, uh there's a number of ways to do it, but to be honest with you, I mean, I know the city
residents of the city would be upset if they had to take care of it. I'm not suggesting that they necessarily do. I'm suggesting that I'll I'll bet we can get a private contractor to do it for less cost than what we are and less risk than
what we're doing. So I I would say um North Wildwood their experience with that was Gold Medal came back in the middle of a contract and basically said we're raising your the fees. >> Yeah. >> In the middle of the contract and if you don't pay us we're basically going to
just increase we're going to not we'll stop. Ocean City had the same experience with another vendor. One of the thing I I don't know if you guys notice this but I certainly do. the vendor that I use for trash just continues to add on expenses whether it be for personnel or
gas and just sends it in the bill. It's not even a discussion. I don't have the ability to and I've shopped around >> and it pretty much is on par with what is being offered for the three other vendors coming in. So >> I am a little sensitive about talking
about something that is personnel driven. >> Okay. >> So um just in all fairness, you don't I mean you know um I'm not disputing the fact that something should be looked at, but please recognize that this is people and their livelihoods. >> So when when we when MTRA looks at an
issue, it doesn't necessarily mean that we're suggesting that something change. >> It's it's that we want to be able to make decisions from a position of knowledge. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Um it is on the list of projects that we are going to be looking at longer term. We should and you know Dennis was a
proponent of this as well. Um, we we should MTRA should be involved in reviewing what the different alternatives are. In in my town in Massachusetts, there is no city collection. You bring your trash and your recycling to the central recycling
area. >> That's why that's why you're moving to KMA, right? >> Or that's right. No, I or you hire someone to come pick up and I get both my trash and recycling picked up at the same time in the same truck and they have not raised the rates in any way
over the course of time. So, I don't know what drives the difference between Massachusetts and New Jersey, but those are factors. >> Probably the vendor. >> Y I've had changes in vendor, but it's um Waste Management just in here in town just increased the rate by 20%. >> For for private collection. Yeah. Well,
I also learned one just one just one more point. I also learned um that Cape Resorts has a compactor for the recycling. That makes an sense. >> Do you know how much it costs? >> I don't know how much it costs. >> $30,000 a year. >> Is that a lot or a little?
>> I don't think so. >> I think it's a lot. It's only for Congress Hall. So, we have a It's $30,000 for a trash compactor plus $30,000 for a recycling contractor. It's only Congress Hall and each property has their own agreement. >> Yep. >> Yeah.
>> I don't think thousands a lot. >> So I I think that those are the kinds of things that allowing for individual businesses to make a different decision compacting would seem to make a lot of sense, but it is a costbenefit analysis for sure. >> But the point you're making is that it's on the list. >> It is on the list. >> So we're looking at it.
>> Yeah. >> Is and is on the list because I know there was there was uh it was came up in city council and there was an article on the 900 rental license folks. I there will be a correction made by the city manager at the next council meeting.
>> It isn't 900. >> Pardon me. >> It is not 900. >> It is not 900, >> but it's a lot. >> Whatever the number is, it's >> What is it? >> Can I can I just I want >> No. Well, then make comment because it's a public article that's out there. >> I I understand that and a correction
will be posted there. the new uh software um you know rentalscape um and how SDL is set up are two different kind of programs right and different fields I don't want to go too far into this this is going to but on the very high level um so they're going
through a line by line reconciliation the number is not 900 Paul will make a correction statement um it was overstated at the council meeting he will also be asking I think the herald to make a correction to the number Um they're actually um meeting the next
couple of days with the clerk's office to go through that number. Um and so I asked him this afternoon um you know I think the number is going to come in somewhere. Please don't quote me, you know, but it might be somewhere between 50 and 80, but please allow them to go
through the due process. What is the what is the >> it's the there was an >> Well, you go ahead, Marine. >> Yeah, there was an article at the last council meeting. Um Paul had asked Aaron where they she where things were with
the reconciliation between SDL and rental skate the software system that we look at that we pro that we um contract it with to understand what's um being marketed in the in Kate May for transient um and whether or not they have a mercantile license.
>> So that you the quote was 900 people are renting but they're not licensed. >> Yes. and and so there's there there will be a correction to that. One of the um challenges was uh in SDL the second line um for an apartment or you know
something else is delineated separate in SDL I mean in rentalscape I think I have this right it was just all one thread um the same with some of the properties in Village Green the quads so it's 1310A or 1310B well some of that is we have but
Rental Scape doesn't have it lined up the same way So, you know, a you know, um an update will be provided at the next council meeting. Um and um that >> then whatever the fallout is, whether it's 50 75 Yeah. there still be a followup.
>> Yes. With those folks, right? >> Yes. That that was the point of my um that they're meeting um they'll be meeting with um code enforcement to talk about next steps on those properties um once they feel confident that they have the the solid verification. So, >> sheriff said no. >> Yeah,
>> but that's a that was an MTRA initiative that the city adopted and Sarah helped to underscore how important it was. So um just MTRA and action any other topics?
>> Maybe a quest uh a question is um again in business when we are trying to do budgeting for large organizations. We had this use it or lose it uh concept that sometimes uh
burned us because we'd find people wanting to make sure they got at least as much as they got the previous year and so they would just spend >> always happens in government. >> It it that's that's been my observation is it happens in government. So, so my real question is do we
h how frequently have we compared our uh cost for various aspects of the budget with um you know either a per capita basis or some other uh some other basis to say you know how good do we feel
about expenses A through F um on on some basis of comparison as opposed to just they're growing by 4% a year and therefore it must be fine because it's only whatever percent it was over the previous year. >> So I I would
the the one area that I mean there there's actually I think two. So as I stated uh earlier the majority of the expenses for the city budget the majority are personnel. Um and I would say that probably represents maybe upwards of 80% of our
budgets. Um and we how personnel expenses um salaries are evaluated um or how they're given. >> Sure. >> Is based on market. So I I've been much
more driving towards to the discussion about what's the market analysis, what are we seeing in other areas for certain types of positions. Um, we, as I mentioned also, we just went through, I think probably six contracts. Uh, and
all of those, Ron, were based on what's happening in other, um, local markets for recruitment and retention. Um, the labor council we have is someone who works with all of the other municipalities, so is very familiar uh, with terms. And then on the
>> and even on that then on the personnel and I realize the sensitivity of this conversation but I but I just out of curiosity again do we understand the levels of deployment of people that we have in certain areas per capita or per geography or whatever is the denominator
versus other municipalities >> and I don't know how so I don't know how the per capita comes into the this that's just >> I I don't know how the per capita comes into it. The the other thing is that in some municipalities, other municipalities, you might have a
department that is public works and tourism together, you know, like they don't not everybody line not everybody lines up exactly. We take it based on the work per the type the position laborer versus seasonal versus, you
know, um a class two versus a sergeant, you know, those types of things. we look at those, you know, where what we're seeing in the market with regard to um pay uh and then try and be competitive. Uh one of the things, you know, Kate May has been behind in this and we were
losing employees um because we weren't our pay was not competitive. Also, it's expensive to live here because you can't find housing and all of the other things. So there h was a very um significant undertaking to make sure that we were um you know paying uh a
livable you know wage and also being competitive so we weren't losing somebody to Wildwood um who had been with the city for you know 15 years and now it was going to be cost us more to recruit or wouldn't even be able to recruit for somebody with that level of
knowledge and skill. Um and the other piece something that we did last year and I was involved in was the healthc care benefits we got out of the state um and we are with you know we are sort of uh through a broker but pretty much it's the cities paying directly to you know
the health insurance company and so I'm involved with that directly um and we're going through that exercise again to take a look at what the cost will be for the renewal and if that's in the best interest of the city. Um so you know I have you know pretty involved in those
discussions and those meetings. Um and then the other piece of it really comes down to I mean as I mentioned pension you know there are pension contributions that are can be pretty hefty for some of the contracts um which just follows salary um and level of um position and
um the other is some is the operating expenses but for the most part that represents a very small number you know of compared to um you know it's for you laborers in DPW. It's work boots and
shirts and that kind of thing. >> It's a fair question. Yeah. >> But it's I would think it would be very difficult to find a comparable >> town that grows from 2,700 to 60,000 people that are staying in the town and Zach mentioned 100,000 people that are
using the beaches. >> I mean that was uh an when when he mentioned that number that was an incredible number to me >> that that it is that high. Um, so I think what Moren is suggesting we scrub we scrub the the budget pretty darn good
>> and and we look for opportunities to save because again going back to the cap, it's a very necessary exercise when your labor costs are going up by more than 3.5% labor and benefit costs. You've got to always find opportunities to save elsewhere to be able to continue
to afford to pay your employees. One of the ways that you were looking for was the under the shared services for instance agreements, >> right? So, um that those recommendations are are in still being implemented. The police contract is up this year and the city is working on that. Um I also from
the budget cap conversation, I did ask I I had noticed in my research that again going back to the recycling topic, trash and recycling may be something that can be pulled out but that we're not pulling out. So there's a poss there's maybe an opportunity there. Um it als but also
the state sends a memo a letter every year saying this can be and this can't be. So the city's going to explore that a little bit. So yeah it's a it's a good conversation to have constantly um and MTRA has has a seat at that table which is I think what makes MRA pretty
valuable. >> Thank you. >> Okay. The last topic that I wanted to to just mention is that um there's some things going on uh conversations that are happening in public and and not about starting to think about the future of Cape May. What what does Cape May
2030 or 2035 look like? How do we have parking? How do we have workforce housing? How do we, you know, h how can we how can we make how can we help Kate May to continue to be attractive? Uh the planning board especially if you haven't
been following those meetings have been pretty interesting lately. Um they've have formed a parking subcommittee of uh that that Dennis is on um along with Gary Padus and and Justin Riggs and they're going to come back to the to the
to the planning board with a concrete proposal about how to address the parking issues. Um, there was conversation at the when when there's a great dialogue between Zach and uh and and Curtis Bashaw at the at the um TPA
meeting uh where Curtis was talking about his what he wants to do for his properties to keep them viable long term and wanting to work with the city in partnership to help to see some of those things happening. Um Moren has been putting a lot of energy into the topic
of workforce housing on the at the planning board level. Um it may have started with an individual application, but city council has been working on is working on uh new new ordinance that that basically provides some incentive to provide workforce housing, especially
on the mall. And um we we recognize that it's critically important for Cape May to be able to to provide for uh the people that either benefit Cape May or benefit Cape May's residents by being nurses and and doctors and and teachers
um with a place to to to live to the greatest extent possible. Um it's exciting to hear those kinds of conversations are happening. Um and again, I think that MTRA will play a role in that in that going forward and you know, we'll we'll stay a breast of it. So on the parking uh committee is
that uh then one that once again we would be asked to potentially look for sources of >> on the list. >> Okay, >> we would be we would be the the group that would be asked how do we fund it? How do we fund it? Okay. And I really just on our on our our topics list I did
carry forward not suggesting that's how we're going to go but just carried forward from Dennis's list the possibility of a fourth class city tax. Well, I was pleased to hear from the mayor at uh at the cottagers uh annual meeting that uh many of those parking
spaces when the police station is done will still be available, which was good news because let's face it, a lot of people are taking advantage of that piece of property right now. >> Workers in the city, >> but the but the Lafayette Street lot won't be once. >> Yeah. No, no. He said that the he said
the parking spaces will still >> be a number of them there. I think 75. Yeah. >> Well, yeah, but don't say that in front of the D. >> The the D said no way. >> Yeah. >> Strike from the >> all all of the Yeah. strike that was u
Yeah. >> Well, they're not going to be on the ground. I don't know. >> Anyway, >> that No, that's I mean that's certainly the way things are going to go. But I'm just saying that the D says 100% of those parking spaces are for that park.
>> Good park. >> Okay. And we know better. We know better. >> To walk through the park to get anywhere else. >> It's evolving. And um again, I'm at the park in the city. How's that work out? >> I'm excited to hear about um the fact
that there are good minds that are thinking about what the future of Cape May is. Anything else? Motion to adjurnn. >> Motion. >> Make the motion. >> Move. All in favor? >> I >> thank you all so much.
>> Thanks. >> How do you nickname?