Oh, I got to find it first. Testing. Testing. Okay guys, city planning board meeting is now in session and in compliance with the open public meetings act of 1975 adequate notice this meeting has been provided. Should any member of this board have reason to believe this
meeting is being held in violation of this act they shall associate at this time. Hearing none, we'll start with the pledge of allegiance. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible
with liberty and justice for all. >> Okay. Roll call. >> Yes. Mr. Bizair >> here. Was that me? >> Mr. Jones >> here. >> Mr. Riggs >> here. >> Mr. Crowley >> here. >> Mr. Gorgone >> here. >> Mayor Mullik. >> Deputy Mayor McDade
>> here. Mrs. Reid, Mr. Lenhomem >> here, >> Mr. Padus >> here, >> Mr. Krippen >> here. >> Thank you. >> Okay. I, as everybody knows, take your phone's on vibrate. Okay. We have uh uh
minutes of the January 13th meeting. >> Make a motion to accept the minutes. >> Thank you, Gary. >> I'll second. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Producus. Motion. Deputy Mayor McDade seconds. Mr. Gorgone. Yes, >> Deputy Mayor McDade. >> Yes, >> Mr. Crowley. >> Yes,
>> Mr. Lenholm. >> Yes, >> Mr. Riggs. >> Yes, >> Mr. Padus. >> Yes, >> Mr. Krippen. >> Yes, >> Mr. Jones. Yes, >> Mr. Bizair. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> We have the application which is um SP Cape May Marine LLC 124 Roseman's Lane,
block 1061, lots 101 through 105, which is being put off for another meeting. I'll let her At the applicant at the applicant's request, that application is adjourned to the March 10th, 2026 meeting. That
will be heard here at 6:00. On that date, there will be no further published noticed if you wish to be heard on that application. This is your notice, so you should appear on March 10th, 2026 at 6 PM. Thank you. >> Okay. Um,
that leaves us with the recommendation for parking initiatives, which was a small committee. Um, Dennis >> and who else?
>> Gary. Dennis and um >> Justin. >> Justin. Yes. >> And Justin. >> Oh, by the way, Justin, congratulations. >> Not yet. >> Not yet. I thought you already >> I thought that I saw it. Yeah. >> Close. >> Okay. >> Could be any second. I'm doing a little push.
>> We'll make this >> We'll make this meeting short. >> Yeah. Well, that's up to you, Dennis. So, what uh what I think I'd like to say is that back in the fall, the planning board put together this subcommittee to examine the issue of uh the overall
concept of what we can or should do about about parking in Cape May because it is a historically high priority issue, especially since we're the planning board. And so, what we met, we met several times and uh we did several
things. As we gathered as many references from the master plan as we could regarding the parking issue, we talked to at least what a half a dozen or more municipalities, communities across the state to how they handle the
u the issue of parking in their jurisdictions. And we also looked in particular at Ocean City, which uh commissioned a study of the parking situation, including a an assessment of the uh of the issues and a set of
recommendations, at least they have a dozen or so recommendations based on what Ocean City could or should do about parking in their especially in their downtown areas. Just just to review just a little bit u
of what we found is that uh parking has been a high priority issue for each of the last four master plans in Cape May. Uh each of those plans going back to 2000 has referenced uh parking as a
growing issue, an issue that seems to be uh getting worse as time goes by and as as Cape May becomes a popular destination and a commercial success in many ways. the the the overriding concept that each
of the master plans emphasized about parking was and I I'm going to quote here from the 219 master plan. It is a parking is a problem which requires a comprehensive solution. We also found that the city has uh taken
several steps over the years to address issues related to the availability of parking. uh the shuttle bus, the school lot, new spaces in in a couple different places including the uh the bus terminal
and others. Uh but there has not been that that we could find a a comprehensive analysis of what the parking issue is since at least 2002. It was the last and and that's been and that study has been referenced in master
plans ever since. So uh we came to the conclusion that rather than suggest specific solutions without knowing all the facts about what the parking issue is, we decided to make a recommendation that that the city
commission a study to examine both sides of this parking issue. The one side being the demand for parking. How many cars come into town? What are they coming in for? How long are they staying?
uh and and and not just one time in July, but a multi-seasonal study of parking because one of the other things the master plan has always suggested is that Cape May should and is becoming a year-round destination. Year-round
destination means year- round parking problems. Not the same every month, but year- round parking. So, what we decided to do was to look at the other side of that as well. not just what what is the nature of the demand
but what is the capacity of the city in its current state to meet that demand to compensate for it to provide for it and to fund it and uh we found that we as a committee don't have the resources or
the or or the uh time and money to to to look at those two factors all by ourselves. So, we're going to recommend that in the in the spirit of both the master plan and the city's responsibility to to address and identify comprehensive
solutions to complicated problems. We recommend that the city commission a study similar to the one done in Ocean City, which would look at once and for all for 2026 and 27 and beyond. What is the demand for parking? What is the
capacity for parking? and what can we do about uh the disparity between those two issues? It it we're not recommending anything at all except to study. And so I think what we want to do is suggest that this board uh agree with that and
recommend that we pass on this recommendation to city council to do with it as they choose to do. And I think that's a pretty much a summary overview of what we did. Gary >> Justin, you want to say some things? No,
I I just would add that pretty much summarizes um what we looked at. We did like uh Dennis said, we looked at a variety of different um places solutions and we came back to the table and said
um you know this might be the best opportunity is to see what what we can figure out. Um, I'll just note that in your packets, this um firm within the uh the packet is the same firm that did Ocean Cities study. So, I'll just note
that. Um, but feel free to take a look at it and that's that's about it. Yeah, I can only say that um you know we created this committee Justin Dennis and I and the city manager and although we have various
backgrounds, we have no background in parking and this has become an issue with our the citizens of Kate May. It's been brought up to this board. It's been brought up to council. And um the only way to find out what the
real needs are would be to do a study and get professionals to do it. And um either that or put it to rest. >> I agree. Um, yeah, I'm not against a study, but um, I know we've had some traffic
engineers that have come before us from time to time, and I know studies have been done in areas like down by the Cove, uh, the Jetty Project. There have been others, uh, you know, that done some studies, and I believe other uh,
people that have been on the parking committee in the past have, you know, looked at areas. Um, I mean the problem is focused in an in an area and you know just looking at the did this you said
this proposal came from Ocean City. >> No, that's from the firm who did Ocean City. >> It's the same firm um city manager Dietrich met with um the firm. We tasked him with reaching out to the firm um and
then kind of going over and reporting back to the committee the various you see the task levels. >> Yeah. Um within it. >> This to me is a pretty generic um almost like an unsolicited proposal at least. >> I think that's what it intended just to
show the scope of what work could be done. It's not specific to the city of Kate May. >> No, not not at all. Not at all. >> I think Bob I'm validating that. I'm saying this is just a generic >> I I know but throwing a generic study out there and trying to get proposals on it can be
>> well no it wouldn't the way this would work is you would recommend it as a resolution to council council would do an if they agreed would do an RFP >> okay >> yeah this is not this is not a fate of complete with this firm an RFP would have to be put together bids would have
to go out >> yeah there there's there's one remark I wanted to make >> I'm not Um I I still have a couple more comments if I could >> talk back for a little. Um >> there's one remark I wanted to make before and that is >> I'll finish later. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I know you were I can't
hear. >> No, go ahead. >> Is do we limit the question I had to the to this committee was do we limit the study to Kate May or incorporate West Kate May with it because we're so close together and kind of mesh together. and
the committee was that we're just going to keep the study to Kate May. I don't know if that's feasible or not, if we should include West Kate May and their parking. What was what was your other point, Bob? I wanted to hear that. >> Yeah, the other point um just I know the
topic is comes up all the time about parking and there have been solutions that have been proposed at the past. I mean, this this does talk about getting stakeholders in there, and I'm not sure who the stakeholders are, but um in my in my opinion, unless the city is
willing to really take some bold steps to do something different. Um I'm not sure I don't know what you're going to get out of out of a study except for the number of cars coming in, the duration, and you know, projections for traffic in
the future. And it's going to show what the deficit is. But people in this town don't want to make changes and there are people in the town that don't want more people coming into the town too. So just in my
opinion, unless the city is willing to really take some bold steps, whether it be a parking garage, take up, you know, uh some sort of improved shuttle service, I don't know what, but uh something you see, you know, because otherwise it's it's to me,
>> no, I agree with you and and and that's actually the reason why we're suggesting this because we're not suggesting this company come in and start this study. This is a model >> for what the study ought to look like. And and we're going back to the word comprehensive.
>> This is what a comprehensive study should look like. It's up to the council if they if they choose to do this then it's up to the council to tailor an RFP as as Moren said >> to a specific group of people who who do these kinds of studies and tell us and I
don't want to oversimplify this but I think at this point we can simplify it by saying have a company come in and and read our symptoms find out what our demand is and give it to us in clear hard numbers
find out what our capacity to meet that demand is and give us solutions to gap to bridge the gap between those two things. That's that's that's second inning. We're in the first inning. >> And so what we're really only suggesting here is >> as you said, let's get serious about
this either and and either I don't want to be rude, but yeah, let's either get serious about it or shut up about parking for the rest of eternity. I mean it's it's >> I agree. Absolutely right. >> I I agree with you, Dar. Yeah. And what does any any idea what what
this study costs? Do they did the ocean city tell you? >> So the ballpark would be around 70,000. >> But keep >> that's up to council to authorize that. I'm just for my information. >> Yeah. And and
>> not just this company, but any company who does these kinds of things. They're they should come in with an RFP to to tell us what to do. Well, we give them parameters on what to look for. And we look and we look for parameters like don't give us a two a a one-day study on
Beach Avenue in the middle of July. Give us give us all of our >> traffic counts. >> Yes. And and the other thing too I wanted to mention that even that traffic study back in 2002 that was a traffic study. It was called traffic and parking but it was primarily
a traffic study. its recommendations talked about uh whether there should be a stop sign here, a red light there, oneway street here, that that sort of thing. They did make certain references to certain issues on parking, which the city has already done. They've done them
20 years ago. But the issue is not this is really a a debate between strategy and tactics. Our strategy is long is is comprehensive. Our tactics must also be comprehensive. And so far, they haven't been. They've been anecdotal. So now's
the time, again, I want to say it again without being rude. It's really time for the city to be serious about whether or not we feel we have a parking problem and what are we going to do about it. >> Just a a thought. I'm I'm just wondering
if do something in reverse. In other words, um, and in instead of going out with an RFP, in other words, where the city or the committee or whoever, you know, puts together the tasks and and and what the scope should be and all that, do it the other way around and
almost like I think they call it an invitation to bid where you go out there and say, "We have a problem. you come in and tell us what this RF what it should look like that we should be you know the the real questions that we should be asking what the real scope should be and
and almost do it in reverse um and that that would go out to the expert you can even do direct mailings to you know variety of companies that that do this >> Bob that's not the way you can do it in municipal government if you want them to
contract with you you could make it part of a proposal presentation, but you have to give them some parameters. >> Well, I know you have to give give some some I've done I've done this or energy master plan. Yeah. Um in the in the >> No, I just meant we have we have to give
them the parameters so when they respond there's, you know, there's like a eightpage checklist that goes with it. >> I'm not disagreeing with the approach. I'm just saying that they're they're generally you're you're asking them give us a proposal based on the following things that we would like you to come
back and scale scope and price. >> I I don't want to oversimplify things, but unless we and this government has the stomach for a parking garage, >> you're blow you're blowing money down. >> Well, I didn't say it that way, but that's >> you don't have you don't have any land
anywhere else to create parking. I mean, for for a for a municipal lot, you've got the the municipality does own some parcels of property. >> Um, so it's, you know, and you have to look at where the bonding is in the city and and there are there are times when bonds are retired and new ones come up
and there's there's all those factors that are involved and it at some point in time doesn't have to affect the tax rate. So there's there's there's things that are that I by paying for a traffic study. You can say we need 500 500 cars,
500 more cars. You're not going to build a 500 car parking garage. Maybe you're going to get a 250. I I don't know. But what maybe we ask somebody to come in and look at what the city owns and say what could you put here giving the height restrictions and maybe we maybe we think about
you know >> what's the maximum amount of parking >> putting residential on the bottom ground or something that I just think >> you're you're you're right but let me let me just push back a slight bit you're right but like any tough decision anybody makes you're you're better off
you have a better chance of getting it If you get your facts straight, and right now we don't have any facts about what this problem is. And lawyers go to court. Lawyers go to court and they do their homework and then they
make their case. If they don't do their homework, the case will never get done. >> And that's the situation we're in right now. >> So, you're suggesting that the study would be a CYA study. >> Yeah. Yeah. find out what the issue. No, find out what this this study may may
come up with the conclusion that there's nothing more to do if you don't do X Y or Z. So then then the city that's the city's job to do the other little things to keep it going. Maybe even at some point talk about regional parking,
whatever. That's way down the road. The issue with this recommendation is not that not anywhere near that. This recommendation is simply to once and for all let's get our facts straight and let us see how it rides out. The council's
job is to take this report if we give it to them and if they if they accept it, commission a study which gives us a set of facts upon which we can build an argument for whatever solution the council wants to do.
And and the one of the reasons why this issue has never gone anywhere is that everybody talks about anecdotes. Everybody's got an opinion about parking, but nobody's got a solution. >> I agree. >> And so and so if if you if you do if we
do our homework properly, >> maybe there isn't. >> There's an argument to be and I'll say it. There's an argument to be made that maybe you don't need a solution to the parking problem. >> That's my point. That's my point. And these are policy decisions, but I can I
could make an argument that says maybe the parking issue is what controls >> what our town is >> and what it can be. If we if we if we're going to create additional parking spaces, you're going to see growth somewhere. You know, people are going to
take advantage of that. Um, you know, that that's the kind of balance that >> Yeah. And at some point at some point down the future, >> I'm not saying that there has to be a parking solution >> and that's an ar that's that's >> I think I actually said that at some point down in the future
>> once we get all of the facts on the table and in a study that that people can rely on maybe the solution is there's nothing else we can do. >> There's nothing else we can do >> and so let's deal with it in our smaller
pieces of of neighborhood spots. But we don't know that yet. We don't know. >> Well, we do we do know we do know that we don't have the room to put additional parking. >> Dennis, that's an inherent intuitive fact of of Kate May. You cannot find
spots. I mean, in in the next 15 years, maybe you're going to have driverless cars and you'll be able to reduce the space sizes from 9 to seven feet and people can pull their cars in remotely. You create more parking because you and that that's a kind that's futuristic thinking. So, but
>> so if a study if a study reaches that conclusion that there's nothing we can do except a parking garage, let's say, then it then it's up to this up to the town actually up to the council to make that recommendation and it's up to the town to to review it, consider it, and
accept it or don't accept it. And and if you don't accept it, then that solution is off the table. Then we're back to the issue where we're going to have to deal with it on a peacemail basis. But but see that the point of the of this committee recommendation is not that we're going to solve the parking
problem. The point the only thing the committee is saying at this point is let's begin a serious study of the problem we think we have and and let let's see how that goes. That's and and by the way, this is
called the planning board, which is >> I was gonna piggyback on to what you just said, Dennis, if you if you don't mind. Um, from a planning perspective, your master plan had a very detailed parking and
>> traffic, >> uh, I'm sorry, traffic and parking element that was done in the early 2000s. So, it's 25 years old, >> right? um during subsequent re-examinations when we looked at that we recognized that you know there's a
lot of stuff in there um and we and we kind of tackled some of the issues that recommendations that were in there um the biggest one is the one way in and out on Lafayette and Washington Street you know that's been in there forever >> which by way was a traffic recommendation not a parking
>> right right so but that element is outdated so there may be some merit to doing this um and providing that data for the next subsequent master plan or re-examination however the the city does >> two birds with one stone >> like you said
>> you're you're a planning board so that information can be valuable for planning >> so that's >> I I like that thank you >> so >> that's a that's a better way of stating it I think well >> just remember when you're doing a master
plan review you're not authorizing a traffic study I mean that that's not that when you say we're going to do a master plan review, it doesn't mean you're authorizing a traffic study. That could be RFP for >> you're going to make a recommendation to the governing body and because they
they're they're the ones that dictate the expenditure of funds, >> right? >> You can make recommendations should it include this or that and you know what what the focus of this study should be for from a planning perspective, >> right? Um, >> yeah. Really what we're saying here, if I can interrupt you, what we're saying
here is we're the planning board. We've looked at the last three or four master plans. There's an issue here that we think needs a comprehensive solution because the master plans have all said that. Our suggestion now is to let's begin to approach that comprehensive
solution by doing a comprehensive study of what may be a problem. And it's and it's a problem because the last three master plans have said so. It's just a super PR problem because everybody's going to say, "Oh, no, another study."
And most people have already have their minds made up. >> Okay? >> I mean, that's all I can tell you. >> Well, >> well, why don't you put a fourth word? >> Let's put Let's counsel. Let's Let's coun. Let's just >> Well, no. You guys do. >> No, no, no. You guys have to send
something. This is not anything. The There's nothing here. You have you no council would have to authorize the hiring >> the expenditures. Yeah. Yeah. Right. >> But I understood that you were going to put forth a recommendation but but wouldn't this >> but this isn't it like okay let me just say something. So a couple a couple of
things >> I'm speaking more as a citizen than the board attorney. Um when I came here 10 years ago exactly 10 years ago Mayor Mahaney was the mayor and he said something to me I remember uh since then. and he said, "We have we have uh we have a parking problem here one month
and three weekends a year." >> Um and he's mostly right about that. Having lived here for a while, that's mostly true with the exception of some festivals. Um you know, there's a period in August and July when things are out of control. The rest of the time, if you really try, you're probably going to find a parking spot. I mean, that's generally true. I mean, I have friends
that come to my house, I have two parking spaces, but aside from those weekends, they find something. They may have to drive around for, you know, two, three minutes at inconvenience, but they find a spot. they may have to walk two blocks, but you know, they they find something. So, I think that's generally true. The thing that I from this that I I think you need to before you send
anything anywhere, you got to try to figure out what problem you're asking them to solve or what problem you want them to find out if there's a problem. Um, I don't think there is any shortage of humans in the mall in July and August. Somehow, they are finding their way there. The restaurants don't have a
parking problem. You can't get a reservation. They're not turning. people weren't not going because of parking. So I my question is where is there a parking problem? Um do you want more business in in the mall area? Do you think you need more humans there in July and August? It doesn't make any sense to
me. So what what are we trying to get parking for? So I think I would rephrase this plan to better direct them to say where is there really a parking problem? um a
and not and I do think data will will help answer that but if the restaurants all want more parking downtown I would ask them where are you going to put those people because I can't get a reservation Monday through Friday in the summer and I know people okay so I mean it's it it's busy enough Craig is
exactly right parking is your last regulation of the number of people that come in your town it's your it's your it's your last bastion I mean the rest the the businesses are going to put as much take in as many people as they can fit at the bar. You can't control that very much. Parking may be the thing that
kind of keeps the town a little more under control. If you put a parking garage, Craig said, you put a parking garage for 500 people, that's 500 cars, that's 2,000 more people in the heart of your town at the busiest time of year. >> Most of the year that parking is going to sit empty. >> But now you're you're drifting into the
the realm of the anecdote. >> Well, no. I I I'm not Well, yes and no. I mean, it's anecdotal, but it's my own experience. So it's not like I've asked somebody their experience >> experience and everybody has everybody in case >> right well if you guys can all find a place you know a restaurant in in
Wednesday in July then you know fine but what I would suggest is that you massage this. The other thing that's missing from this document which I actually did read is any notion whether of the streetscape you know one of the things that o my parents live in Ocean City so
I know Ocean City very well as well they don't have a streetscape in Ocean City their historic district is one road buried in the very center of town over near a church the tabernacle that's their historic district okay their goal is to pack as many humans as they can as
close to the boardwalk as they can. That's all it is. Walking through Ocean City is, no offense to my friends in Ocean City, is fairly ugly. >> Uh if you go from Sixth Street to past the Flanders to 12th Street, all it is
are big parking lots and apartment buildings, that's that's their streetscape. So th this talks nothing about historic district, whether you really want more cars downtown, >> right? So So what I'm saying, I'm not criticizing this document. It's a general document, but I think before you
go recommending anything to the town, you should rewrite this in your mind about what you're really asking them to study. >> Let me go back to what I said a little while ago. >> First of all, this is not what we're proposing. >> I know >> this is a sample of what could be proposed based on a couple of
conversations we've had with the guys who did the Ocean City one. We're nowhere near crafting an RFP. This recommendation that we're suggesting the planning board make to the city council is commission a comprehensive study of two things.
>> No, I heard you say that. You have to say it again. I understand that. What I'm saying though is you're not at the point where you should be asking the commission anything. In my opinion, you're at the point where you guys should be discussing what is it we want to recommend to them. To say that you just want to do a a parking study, a
study of what? What I think you want to recommend to them is a way to, you know, say, "We want to have a parking study that focuses on preserving the historic district, that addresses parking during certain times of the year, that focuses on the residences south, you know, near
Congress Hall that have real parking problems, and I'm sure, you know, and the parking just north of the mall that has real parking problems and define what you want them to study. You don't need a study of, you know, everything. So, you know, you got to try to define what really do we care about and then
get a study on that issue because they're not going to know what how to direct Desmond. Desmond's going to give you traffic in and out. So, you know, you you I think you just need to take a little time amongst yourselves and do your planning so that when they get an
RFP, it's an RFP for a plan that reflects your principles and your concerns. Because right now, finding more parking in town, which is what these people get paid to do. I think that might be the last thing you really want. Just find find us more parking.
That's that's not that I don't think that's what the majority of the board really wants. Maybe they do. I don't know. But I I I that's what this that's what this document is doing. >> Well, I think if if you do find parking, it's going to it has to be in the middle of town. You're not going to find it in
East Cape May or West Cape May for that matter or on my street. It's got to be I don't know just again back back to what Rich is saying if if >> I mean I my eyes were open a little bit when when when Craig just said you know
it's it's a limiting >> element and maybe >> provides a maybe it's something that uh >> that we just keep pitching about. B b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b b basically what you're saying is what you're saying is define the endgame first and then figure out what it is
that that that you really need to ask. >> Well, what would be >> No, that's what you're saying, Rich. Define the end. >> Figure out what your problem figure out what the problem really is before you go >> the problem you're trying to solve. If you're trying to solve a problem, is it not enough parking? Is it parking in the
wrong places? What is it? >> Because we don't even know that. >> We don't know. >> I think you do. You're the planning problem. You may find out differently, but I think you got to focus them. Are do you really want I mean, this has no right. Don't you want to focus on not affecting the historic streetscape? >> Like, don't you want to make that clear
in your RFP that part of what you're trying to do is design a parking method that preserves the historic streetscape? >> Rich, that that that's that's an esoteric goal that we've already we've already accomplished. Our streetscape is is there. We're not we're not looking
into to >> not gonna destroy it. >> Digressing from that. No, no, but that's >> I'm just you got to tell these folks that's part of what their review is is to to also look at the impact aesthetically. I don't think aesthetics comes up once in this whole report in >> Well, that's something you could build. You're right.
>> That's what I'm saying. So, you got to go through those things and focus on aesthetics. Yeah, but Rich, a commission study similar to the this proposal we have here, a commission study would include a stakeholders analysis. >> Who are the stakeholders? >> Well, that's up to the that's see that's
up to the study group to determine. That's why we pay that's why we pay for >> tell them we tell them the stakeholders. >> Yeah, I agree. >> All right. Okay. What's who who are the >> You got residents, you got businesses, you got you got visitors and employees.
>> Yeah. That's and >> that's that's a big one. Employee parking is is is a is an issue. >> We have businesses. We have historic commission. We have residents and we have visitors. >> Who else do we have? >> Businesses. >> I got that was the number one.
>> Employees. You have employees in there. >> Yeah. Well, employees business and Yeah. >> No, no, no, no, >> no, >> no. There's two different conversations. The employers, the employers have a different agenda than an employee. And I
think that you need to we need to consider that because they are individuals who come into the city and need to find parking. And many of them try and find that parking close to that business in the downtown commercial district. The one thing that I haven't heard mentioned and I'm not going to say
any more from the from my perspective at this point is a lot of this is demand parking on location. You want to go to east side of town, you have plenty of streets where you can park. We have parking. It's by location.
So, that needs to be considered. You could go around and count the number of parking spots in the city on July 4th weekend and you're going to still find parking on the east end of town, but that's not where people want to park. >> So, that's another component to this. In
my opinion, you would need to include >> or they don't know that the parking's there. Yeah. >> Out of town. You pull in. You don't >> or they don't want to walk open parking. You don't know that. >> Well, I think sometimes it might be a combination of both. You know, >> they circle till they get there. >> Yeah. They keep Yes. >> They go back out of town,
>> right? >> I mean, I think employee parking is on on its own is is a is a major topic. >> It is a major topic. >> So, would you recommend that that this committee would make a recommendation which includes
those kinds of issues? >> Yes. as a part of its of its recommended study. >> That's that I mean personally that when when I read this I didn't feel that I was getting the benefit of your insight. I felt that it was it was more of a just a general thing like I would rather hear
from the the committee. >> That's a boilerplate, >> right? But but your memo I'd rather hear the committee say you know really our concern isn't so much finding parking for businesses as it is it seems more like a resident uh employee problem is our focus. So, we'd like to, you know, direct them to
focus on how can we improve parking for residents and employ something that I'm not saying what to say. I'm saying just more um a focused study on the real problems that the that you guys perceive because Ocean City just wants to get humans near the boardwalk. We have a
whole bunch of other considerations that I that I personally would like to see in your analysis. employee parking, uh, resident parking, um, historical districts, >> beach parking. >> I say that's the other thing, too, is
that that the cars come in driven by folks with a lot of different destinations and and a lot of them come into town and maybe hit when they're here, hit two or three of those destinations. They go to the beach and then they go to the bar
and then they go shopping and that's that's one card in three places >> and they can do all that to parked in one spot, right? Everything's centrally located. They don't have that's a factor that a study would need to identify. >> I don't think we need to have a study to identify that. That's what people do.
>> I I I mean that's kind of a no-brainer. >> And people come in in the morning to go to the beach, they come in the afternoon to shop, and then they come in the evening for dinner and drinks. And uh that is that three sets of cars or is that one car? >> Well, go down go down by east or west
end of town after six o'clock in the beachfront. You got there's there's places to park. >> Yeah. >> And that's that's so that's not >> east end of town >> and west and and and by even rusty nail but and and that there and beyond the spaces are open all night long all from
from sundown and on. And the other variable that's come about in the last year, in the last 25 years since we did our last traffic study, was uh the rise of Uber and and people coming into town and they don't even bring a car. So all
that stuff needs to be put on the table. That's a study that that's a comp I go back to the word a comprehensive solution. First of all, we don't know what the problem is. How can we talk about a comprehensive solution? And all we're asking at this point is if
you want to tailor this to make, as Rich says, identify stakeholders. These are stakeholders you're suggesting. That's fine. But our recommendation is not complicated. It simply says, do we think we once and for all need to, if you
will, go back to the 2020 the 2002 study and update it with the reality of 2026. Then all you're doing is adding parking counts to it. You're not you're not for as an example the lot on Lafayette Street. Now people park
>> you would know that the city's not allowed to charge for parking. Correct. >> That's correct. >> Does it is anything allowed to be built on that lot. >> Where where's that >> behind Fston area where where all the new >> parking where the police station is going to be? Right next to >> Well, that's that's a popup parking
space. But but it wasn't it wasn't up until halfway through the summer and it was always environmental. It was there was questions about the >> there's still Yeah. I don't think you're allowed to build it. I think you could put you could put a I think you put asphalt on it. I think you could put a parking lot there.
>> Yeah. But no buildings. >> Can't put a structure on it. >> Well, I mean what was that again? >> If that if that's something that can continue that has actually created >> there will be some ability to to continue with some of that. Part of it is going to be the police the police
building. Part of it will be parking for the police building and the park and other portions of it will turn into components of the park. So you'd have to see the whole design. There's going to be botchi ball courts, you know, in that area.
>> Okay. Well, I'm just I'm just saying I'm doing this visually in my mind, but there will be some component that that will remain there, Bill. Um >> there is a parking lot in the new park. Yeah, >> I think it's probably going to be about 100 cars. >> I think that's what it is. Yeah,
actually a little less because I think the police might be using some of >> That might be true. >> Yeah, >> 100 cars is not a small number. >> No, it's not. >> But you wouldn't be able to put a garage in for >> nothing nothing permanent.
>> Okay. That's that's >> I mean that's where they that's where they kept Bill. That's where they kept all that's where they kept all that stuff. If you suggested at this in 2026 that we are now considering putting a parking garage or even a surface lot
where this town had anticipated after 15 years of anticipation that there's going to have a park for the people who live here and we're going to turn it into a parking lot for the folks who visit here. That's a different problem. >> Well, I I don't know that anybody
expected to have a park there. You've got plenty of parks in town. You got the corners park. >> Well, Bill, you're you're gonna you're gonna have to look at the history of what council's done over the last 15 years. >> I've never I've never heard them promise a park there. I have not. Have you, Craig?
>> We've taken money >> park hasn't been >> We've taken money from the federal government, from the state government with the promise that we're going to use that money to build a park. >> It was supposed to be green space. I guess that's >> the money's for the money's for the
park, Moren. >> Okay. >> Well, >> unless you unless you want to volunteer giving it back, >> which needs parking >> which needs parking. >> There is a parking lot built into the park design, but but the if you're
suggesting that instead of a park, but the park as it sits right there now is like 30% done. And if you're suggesting we take the other 70% and and and retrograde it to a parking lot, >> you're gonna have a problem with that.
>> You can't do that. >> You can't do that. But the >> D restrictions on that. >> Yeah. You can't do it. >> It's off the table. >> Okay. But there's been no formal design for that part. There's cars parking there now. >> All summer long there was
>> a formal design. >> Yes. that was >> and maybe that's not how it's going to end up being in terms of what it's designed. >> That's a popup parking lot. And by the way, the the popup parking lot um and I have this from personal experience because I can see it from my
bedroom. The popup parking lot is proof positive that we've got a parking problem because it's filled with cars. >> There's no question about it. You're right. You're exactly right. >> Well, it's also free, folks. So, I mean, let's acknowledge that >> some of it's employees.
>> I bet I bet you a lot of employees were there. You're right. >> Huh? >> You're right. I bet you a lot of employees. >> Yeah. But but let's not let's not we when you need a place to put your car, it doesn't matter whether you work here or visit here. You need a place to put your car. >> So, that lot is proof positive that we
do have in fact in 2026 a growing parking problem. >> Create an employee parking lot. >> Create a lot that requires an employer assigned pass. You get a a permit for parking and put it out somewhere don't know that either employees only
>> shuttle. >> They can walk from there. >> You can walk from there. >> I know people don't want to walk three blocks away and then after dinner they walk eight blocks. >> People park for free in a school lot and they wait for the shuttle. >> Right. >> All how many of them do that? Not a lot. >> Doesn't look like a whole lot.
>> No. And and you know you could you could say there's plenty of parking in in East Cape May. Uh and and and so if we come in from Stone Harbor to go to dinner, I don't see many people parking their car out in Poverty Beach and waiting for the
shuttle to come by to take them to Elaine's >> that's not that's not happening either. >> They don't come from Northgate made to do that. >> They don't come from Northgate made to do that or >> No, they come from Northgate May to go to the beach in the daytime and then we
have to give them a parking space somewhere. But what's what what's the number there? We don't know. You know, >> we either we either define the problem or or we tell the town that we're we're
done talking about this. So I recommend we make a study to the recommendation to the city council to craft a study which will identify the scope of the parking demand, the existing resources to meet that demand
and uh consider the interest and needs and input of all the stakeholders in this city before they craft another solution. >> I agree with that. That's a motion. >> Is that a formal motion? >> I made a motion. That's a motion. >> I'll second.
>> So, we're going to send it to council. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We have >> on it. >> I'm not What are we voting on? >> You want to repeat that or >> Yeah. I'm not sure I understand. >> We're going to recommend that to the that the council commission a study to
examine the demand for parking, the re the current resources to meet that demand, and consider the the recommendation and input of all major stakeholders in the city which would include but not will include but not limited to the business community, the
historical preservation commission, the permanent residents of the city, the visitors of the city, and the employees who work in our town. >> I I think you can't just limit it to the permanent residents of the town. There's there's there's a lot more people that own property owners.
>> Okay, let's turn that to taxpayers, >> right? Sure. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yep. >> Thanks very much. >> That's a much better one, Dennis. >> Okay, got it. >> That can be done with a survey. >> Are you ready for me to call the vote?
>> Any more discussion? >> Yeah, Dennis seconded. Two Dennises. We work together. We work either side of the room. >> Craig, this is this a little bit out in left field that we're discussion now. Yeah. >> Yes. What discussion? the new D prop proposals that we have to of rising the
you know rising sea levels and whatnot that what they have proposed >> how's that going to affect all this what do you think yes >> we'll just raise car >> I'm just I mean I I see that as a chance to put a parking garage if you're going
to have to have people raise a lot of that stuff to save the landscape I don't know >> that it's all really new >> right >> and I know there's a lot objections to it. >> Absolutely. >> So, I I'm sure that it will be challenged. So, I don't know what's
going to come out of that. I'm hesitant to venture a guess, but yeah, it could have implications. >> Um, you know, if you're going to start seeing buildings raised, there's going to be an opportunity to park underneath some of the buildings where there wasn't before. So like
>> okay >> you know >> that's just off-the cuff analysis that but I can't >> okay >> even venture a guess of what how it's going to impact us >> that's probably a couple years off >> at least at least
>> but by the time they get done challenging it in court and I think all the shore communities are in favor of it obviously >> but anyway that's >> they may particularly yeah but I I was going to actually ask for that to discuss later >> so is there any other discussion on the motion.
>> I I Yes. couple couple of things. I'm just I'm just thinking um again I I feel you need to know what the endgame is what it is that you're if it's just numbers that you're trying to get which is you know cars coming in future uh and
all that but I I I think they need to look at at land we're regardless of whether people like it or don't like it uh but places for real opportunities for for um increasing parking if that's what
the endgame is that you're looking for here. >> That's and that's and that's included. >> You need to define that endgame though. >> That's included when I when I say uh define the problem, the current demand >> uh and then define the capacity that's
included in the capacity. >> Yeah. But the the answer is not you know you can get three parking spots here, four park, you know, it really needs to, as I stated earlier, it needs to be bold, >> right? you know, uh >> it's a comprehensive capacity like a parking garage >> to accommodate parking.
>> Um >> and what that comprehensive solution is going to look like is is up to the study >> and then ultimately it's up to the council and the people >> and and is there a tiein to the ma what has been done in the master plan and
that I don't recall seeing that spec uh specifically in there. I mean, that's really that's really the the trigger for this whole process because the planning board has looked at the last four master plans and and they've all said it's
going to be a problem. It is a problem. It's going to be a bigger problem because this town wants to be a commercially viable place and it is and it's going to get better and our our and our intent is to be a yearround destination and we are. In 2002, we
didn't know what that looked like when Mayor Mahaney said two weeks in July and the rest that that was in the context of of a of a 2009 mindset, >> but we're not in that town. Could one of the the end results of this be that that the study shows that um we've reached
capacity or we're close to capacity here and that there that unless you do something >> drastic like a like a a parking garage or something like that, >> you know. I don't know. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it could it could because because that was that's the
purpose of why we are calling for a comprehensive solution. It could be that uh there's nothing we can do >> except >> okay self-controlling. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> There's nothing we can do. >> And the efforts of the city over the
last seven or eight years to to peacemeal little solutions may be the only way we can go >> and it may be exhausted. >> So I don't know that >> but that's an end result then. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Any other discussion on the motion?
You want to do roll call? >> Okay. >> Mr. Crowley motions. Mr. Krippen seconds. Mr. Gorgone. Uh I'm going to vote yes. And it's primarily because of our uh the last bit of the discussion that we had because I think
coming into this I really didn't think that there was an end to this thing. Okay. It was just something that a consultant could make money on. >> Um >> no actually going to spend money on it. But So, I am a yes. >> Yeah.
>> Deputy Mayor McDade, I'm going to abstain. Yes. >> Abstain. Thank you. I'm sorry, Mr. Crowley. >> Oh. Uh, yes. >> Yes. Thank you, Mr. Lhome. >> Yes, >> Mr. Riggs.
>> Yes, >> Mr. Paducus. >> Yes, >> Mr. Krippen. >> Yes, >> Mr. Jones. >> Yes, >> Mr. Bizair. Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Anybody have anything else?
No. Another short meeting, huh? >> Okay. Final motion. >> Make a motion. All in favor? >> Okay. >> Thank you. Good night, everyone. >> All right. Good night, all. It's all good.