and I was thinking well if it's HPD then you have to keep the frame basically right You can cut the insides do whatever Yeah You can't just take it down Yeah
Yeah This is kind of kind of a uh kind of a hoarder type situation Yeah Yeah It's a shame [Laughter] [Music] I got one up there
Delicious too US [Music] What the hell they do Okay Uhoh got plenty Hey Bill Hey Dennis Everything's working out
good Rich gave me his bill Extension How you doing Derek Okay Doing all right Just trying to find people to work It's my my constant thing every day
And I got this crazy former client who keeps emailing accusing my character having robbed her This is like you know three months after we stopped services and it never happened She's just she's
kooky And you know the stuff she's saying is bizarre right crazy And she just keeps emailing me like she's going to call the the this and the that and this and I'm going to get a lawyer and I'm going to do this I'm Yeah I'm going to call the police I'm this Finally I
said please do What do you want I said if you will stop emailing me please do I'm tired of seeing your crazy emails Oh my god Yeah She accused accused me personally
of identity theft What do you do I I have a home care business Oh yeah Okay Yeah Yeah Yeah So like I stole her credit card out of her wallet and you
know I was like man I thought I was done with her but we stopped service cuz she was getting a little harass it's getting to that point where and then there's this I don't know if you heard of Next Door it's a dumb
little social media platform she got on that and started banning you Yeah Like now now now that's a problem Not a review A like accusing me of criminal activity Yeah So I I complained next door Yeah And they they took her down
Cuz I told them I said "You guys are liable as much as she is for allowing this stuff to be published." So is it an elderly person Yeah she's um she's not crazy old
She's her 70s I'm ready She's a former therapist psychologist She's way too medication Way too many medications Yeah Two two extensions sort of automatic You just have to ask for no change Right
Right Correct So Okay guys uh good evening Uh the regular meeting of the city planning board K city planning board is now in session and in compliance with the open public meetings act of 1975 Adequate notice of the meeting has been provided Any member of
this board have reason to believe this being held in violation of that act They shall so state this time hearing none We'll begin with the pledge of allegiance Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands One nation
under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all Roll call Yes Mr Bizair here Mr Jones Mr Riggs Mr Crowley here Mr Gorgone here Mayor Mullik Deputy Mayor McDade here
Mrs Reed Mr Lhome here Mr Badus here Mr Krippen here Thank you Okay Okay The application for tonight is an extension of a site preliminary and final site plan approval for 409 Elmyra
LLC 409 AL Myra Street block 1060 lot 33 Mr Monzo by the way everybody put your phones on silent All right Thank you Mr Chairman members of the board Anthony Monzo from Monzo
Cat Dales Uh representing the applicant Initially um the applicant was 409 Elmmyra LLC Um the ownership changed hands late u last year Uh the current owner is 1842 Investments Kate May LLC
uh the new owner who are we we are now representing um wants to explore um financing and the market for the residential units so is requesting more time Um the uh approving resolution was December of
2022 The application for the extension was submitted October 31 2024 So we were within the two-year period at the time we submitted the application I think because of the transaction and various other considerations there were delays in getting before the board Let me just
clarify one thing procedurally I think is isn't isn't an approval good for three years What was that Approval is good for three years This was final preliminary and final 2022 Final I think is two Final two Okay Then
I'm I stand corrected Okay Well because we have preliminary and final I I think once you get final you start the clock on two years Okay But per the ordinance we're the board has discretion in extending it for up three up to three one-year periods um so that we don't
have to come back next year I would ask for the three years but if the board wants to shorten that that's fine And we'll see how things are at the end of one year or at the end of two years Are you aware of any changes in zoning or the zoning ordings that would affect this
I am not aware of any changes that were made that affect this site This was a permitted use It's the C1 zone with residential um over commercial that's permitted over permitted use Um there were some minor variances granted um
because of the backout mainly the parking um which really was was difficult but I believe we had um I'm not sure if we had sufficient parking but I know we had backout parking on Ammyra which required a variance I'll I can summarize the variances So there was
a there was a parking variance for the number eight were required and they provided five Excuse me Does that include the two city two spaces on city property It did not So they had seven spaces Well the ordinance requires
onsite So on that side okay so and I remember that correct when even because they were not on site we couldn't count them right and needed but it's including used towards your justification for that variance and that was discussed right the last so and then there there was another variance for the extended curb
cut um along Elmyra and then finally for the parking setback and the sideyard setback Those were the three variances All of the other bulkan area criteria were met Mr Monzo you um mentioned that you might be looking to get the three years or
three one-year extensions Is there anything in particular about what you know about your current client that would lend you to want to request that They are in fact they're working on an application to come before this board
um either in probably in May Um and while they're are um under undertaking their plans to develop the property as approved they want to at least make some use out of the property as a private club um with about 20 seats for for private
membership for on a temporary basis Um that is considered a change of use So that may last one or two years while the plans to develop the property are being um explored further ownership changed hands again at the end of the year and the new owner is
now looking into the market looking into financing and seeing if there's a market for the residential use as approved and we believe there is but it's going to take a little bit of time So is it your understanding that they would come back to the board to get approval for this
interim use that you're describing Yes Okay We're only approved we're only extending the approval for what what we understood I just want to have Any other questions Dennis Dennis Dennis Dennis put your mic on
U Could you explain again uh Craig your comment on page uh four or five 40 or five Yes So extension of time comments is listed at the top of that page Um and it has the section that contains the
provisions for the time limit for final approval and extensions So once you get final approval it says that final approval shall expire two years from the date of final approval unless the applicant has secured and maintains a building permit to com commence construction That has not been secured
The planning board may extend final approval and the protection offered under subsection F herein for one year The developer may thereafter apply for an extension of final approval for such additional period of time as shall be determined by the planning board to be reasonable taking into consideration the
number of dwelling units and the non-residential floor area remaining to be developed economic conditions and the comprehensiveness of the development Where did the three-year come in I Okay so this is a little our ordinance is a
little bit different than the language provided in the municipal land use law The municipal land use law provides that you're allowed up to three one-year extensions Is that correct Mr R Correct I believe so I'm just going off the top of my head but um
so I believe where it says the the last sentence the developer over thereafter may apply for an extension of final approval for such additional period of time as shall be determined by the planning board to be reasonable shouldn't exceed what the municipal land use law provides for
which is the three one-year approvals Now some boards will will grant them all at one night other boards will make them come back each year and provide testimony with regards to the status of the application the economic conditions
etc Um it's it's up to the board So under the land use law when does the applicant have to apply for the first of these uh extensions So long as they got their application in before the extension ran out I believe it's valid
Now now they're they're actually allowed to come back retroactively like I'll let I'm talking legal stuff but I'll let Rich lawsuit about this provision Okay There's actually a um case a decision written on this very
ordinance So at one point I knew this thing crazy good and crazy carefully because why you asking me came up asking the wrong guy Yeah it did in the judge and you denied you denied the extension right So there was
a big appeal about that and the reason you denied the extension was there was a change in the circumstances surrounding that area because the parking got much more complicated The beach had formed down there So uh we had a big lawsuit about whether or not I also I also
believe they failed to to file an application within a two-year period That's where I was going I think that's that's a whole other competition Now you can As long as you file between the end of the second year and the end of the and beginning of the third year it relates
back to to the beginning of it's as if you did it on time So you have to do it within one year of the two years and then it goes back to the and you'll be only get an extension from when it expired Okay So it's a very complex thing and I wrote pages on this in a
fellow brief because our ordinance is just doesn't track the MLUL as we're accomplishing something different here Ours makes the thing expire The MLUL is designed so that when you get preliminary approval it freezes
the zoning at that time so that they can't change the zoning during that period And then there's a final approval and then there's a period that they once you have final approval you have final approval So if zoning changes it doesn't matter because you have final But what ours says is you have to start doing
something within two years or it expires Okay So that people don't just get approvals and then sit on them for a long time Part of that was in reaction to something that happened on Washington I think um so um so ours is different So when you try to put ours and make it lay over the
MLUL it doesn't fit perfectly But the court validated our ordinance and said that we can do it the way we do it And it also said that we can consider not just these three things but we can also consider what has happened around the site to whether or not that approval still is viable And we have to listen to
their reasons It's always my preference that the applicant testify as the reasons because we actually need personal knowledge But um nevertheless Mr has testified to the to the reasons why So uh there's also a quirkiness not to add layers to
this but um that stuff about the if you read the first sentence right is the second sentence the planning board may extend final approval and the protection intersection after hearing for one year and then the developer may there have to apply for an extension and then
it gives the reasons So argument made that for that one year it really isn't a standard established for whether they can extend it So I think you're pretty you kind of get it the one year is is fairly easy When they ask for more than that then you got
to start thinking about well do you really want to freeze that in place for more than a year That's a complicated area I remember there was the bus station was behind it There was some parking of ours that they were using It was very dynamic It was a weird application I mean just it just kind of
was There was there was like commercial stuff on the first floor and yeah if I if I can just I mean the the the bus area behind was an area that we thought initially was an access area when we found out it was a private road owned by Department of Transportation or New
Jersey Transit We reconfigured the plan so that access came in off of Elmmyra Those two parking spaces are permanent They were granted to the to by the city when they widened Delmra street and they took parking from the depot and in
exchange as part of the in the the u the the deed of easement that was granted the city awarded two permanent parking spaces The first two on the parking lot adjacent to the um property Were they the property's parking spaces or were they just the city's parking space No no
the the depot lost two parking spaces as a result of widening Elmmyra Street Yeah No no no What I'm saying is those my recollection is that some of the parking that was being used by the project was actually not their property Am I wrong about that That's correct
City even though the city even though the the applicant had the right because it wasn't on site Mr Hurles is correct that it needed to be included in the variance because it wasn't on site It was on adjacent property but it was justification for the variance But
you're here tonight as for at least one year since we're three months I mean my only suggestion we're first of all the ordinance says it says for one year Then it says the second sentence up to three such extensions may be granted It doesn't say it has to be all separate
times But since we're into the first year by around three months I would suggest maybe for two years um because it may be hard to get everything done and get permits pulled by the end of the year because it relates back to when the approval was was given So that's why I
think two years might be more But Mr Monzo you're saying that there might be a change in use And so from my position I'd like to understand what that change of use is before I would grant for two years So I I I think at a minimum I would expect the applicant you know the
new owners to come back and have some discussion in front of this board as to what they intend to utilize this property for even if it's an interim Yes Well that we we um are working on an application to come back in in May on that change of use It's an application
that was submitted to HPC Okay That elaborates on that as well Uh but the change is is mainly um about the future No no just a temporary because they they want to they don't want to operate a restaurant but they want to get some use out of the property during this interim
period So they want to make it just a private club Okay That has 20 seats in for private membership It's considered a change of use which requires um even though there's no changes at all to the site it's going to remain exactly the way it is other than renovating interior
and facade changes to the building which is why we need to go to HPC because it's a change of use It requires board approval But so I'm clear you're asking for a two-year extension on for that utilization of the space of the for the approved for the prior approvals For the
prior approvals they can't do anything new without coming to us This is just to extend it while they try to figure out what they're doing and they're having some economic issues about determining the viability of the residential units and there's been a change in ownership and it's suggested My question is just
what I've heard in the past Sure Sure they are Tuna club I think it's a permitted use in that zone What's the the tuna club Marlin the beach club Beach club Yach club Yach club My backyard
The crawly club But I don't want to get too caught up on the proposed use It's kind of like floating out there But your your primary reason I thought you gave in the beginning is that it's been a change in ownership and they're examining the financial viability of the residential units Yes And they may make some interim
use of it So that's why for two years because you're going to go back three months anyway So it's really only a year and nine months and you want those two years to figure out what they're going to be able to do That's correct Any other questions Yeah I I have another question about this and I'm sorry for
being dense but uh this application this approval expired in 2024 Correct And there was no uh building permit issued prior to that Correct
Correct And now we're going to now we're being asked to extend this approval That's correct Yes And you have to do it There's a case there there's there's a case on this okay And you you're allowed to have these kind of expire It's written by
Judge Sherpentelli the case and it talks about you can have these shorter periods to expire but they can't be less than the three years that's in the MLO So you have and he talks about the same
idea of applying within those three years You have to get your application in within those three years And when I dealt with this in the appellet division I said if if if we did this sometime between the second and third year it might be a problem But in the jetty we
were in the fourth year or something fifth year or so something crazy like that So I'm telling you as a matter of law they applied on time That is not Well we actually applied before the ex before the expiration October and under the ML as long as you apply before the
two years is up your do not deny this based on the time that they apply They within time to apply So if you have another reason you want to deny it then you can articulate that But that is a invalid reason to deny it Great Okay
All right Any other questions Anybody care to Oh I just have I missed our original hearing So can I vote Yes Okay Anybody care to make a motion to extend for two years I'll make the motion two years from the second
I'll make the motion to extend for two years as of December 2024 I'll second Deputy Mayor McDade motions Mr Lenholm seconds Mr Gorgon Yes Deputy Mayor McDade Yes Mr Crowley No I vote no on
this And I voted no for the first time I was around because it the um the way the property is configured particularly with the uh backing out of the parking spaces into Elmyra Street cause Dennis you can't vote on application So it's
because you voted against it You can't vote on the merits of the application for an extension You have to vote whether you want extension I can say that's a that's a invalid basis to deny the extension Okay Then I vote if you if you want to articulate something that has changed from when you voted from
when from the first application till now something has changed either a significant site condition or a zoning change then you can articulate that But to say that I I'm voting no for the same reasons I voted no when it was first here That's not what you're voting on Then I abstain You can't abstain unless
you have a reason to abstain Just say no Uh then I vote yes That was that's intellectually honest Mr Lunhome Yes You've taken my other two
choices away from me So Mr Paducus Yes Mr Krippen Yes Mr Bazair Yes Thank you Okay Thank you I don't think it has any Oh we didn't open to the public Oh we did not
We're holding our decision in obey I make a motion we resend our previous vote until we hear from the public Sorry for my jogging attire I forgot this was this evening Um but I live across the street Can you um move up to the podium Thank you
Hold on Is the microphone on Is it on It's on It's on Okay Well do this in a certain way Okay Yeah Can you please State your name and spell it Yes My name is Lindsay Michael L I N D S A Y M I C H
E L Okay And where do you live I live at 523 Lafayette Street which is across the street from uh 409 Elmyra We're on the corner Okay Do you swear the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth of
God Uh yes I don't think it's testimony but yes it is if you say Go ahead Okay Um I have a question because there was some construction going on at 409 that was uh shut down and there was a notice posted that it was like being conducted
without approval I guess Um so my question is did that have something to do with the um proposed like change of use to make this into a private club or was that something to do with the previous I can address usage There there was some interior work being done with
the understanding that under under construction u it was in the same use group as the restaurant use Private clubs and restaurants are in the same use group for construction purposes Uh so they
stopped work until that was rectified Since then the zoning officer signed off the construction officials signed off and they allowed them to continue interior work only So they're just doing some interior work maybe you know nothing significant And um they're going
to go and not start the exterior work which is basically windows doors and some facade work until there's HPC approval and also um planning board approval for change of use So right now only interior work is being done and permits are issued Okay Uh it just had
looked to me like the interior work had shut down as well Um but uh yeah so that was my first question And then secondly the parking spaces Are you going to be like cutting into the sidewalk in order to add or provide the
eight parking spaces that you're talking about There will be a hearing on change of use that will address future site considerations That's not what this board's considering tonight But to answer your question no changes will be
made on the exterior site other than the building itself Okay And so the the interior construction will resume before that May hearing The interior work only is is being done Yes Okay Um I think that's it Okay All right
Thank you Sure Thank you Thanks Just so that my silence doesn't imply that I agree with that decision I don't understand how they're doing interior change of use without they there's a use group um a I don't
even know technicality R A2 whatever the use group is clubs and and um restaurants fall into the same use group for construction purposes So based on that between the construction official and the zoning officer they agreed that
interior work only can be done with the understanding that that just because interior work is being done it doesn't mean it's a change of use for zoning That would have to come before the board and they're doing that work with the understanding that it's at the peril at their own peril if the board approves or
disapproves the change of use application from a zoning standpoint And so you're saying that because the current uh dormant use was a restaurant Is that what you're saying Yes Mr King may I ask I'm sorry I'm sorry Go
ahead M um I just wanted to ask whether or not we could just follow up I not that I don't trust Mr Monzo but I'd like to hear from the construction official as well as the zoning official Um I'm not planning on um holding this up but I just would like a followup on that from
this board or at least at least a letter at least a letter in the file Okay Thank you Yeah And there there is a zoning permit issued and also um an application with full set of interior renovation plans Thank you So if it's going from a
restaurant to a club with the same use why do they have to come back We I had that discussion with Bruce Britain He said under the zoning code the permitted uses in the C C1 correct Yes In the C1 zone restaurants are in
one category private clubs are in another So from a zoning standpoint we have two separate permitted uses From a construction code standpoint private club and restaurants h have the same use group and therefore they don't consider
that to be any change of use from a construction code standpoint That's convoluted is You really got to jump You got to jump through hoops on that Jesus Anybody have an eedrin I I don't know enough I don't know enough about it to to comment on it
Um different uses can have different parking implications There's site plan change of use in a commercial zone The fact is they're going to come back That's not the issue that's here So yeah we we don't we're not disputing that from a zoning standpoint this is a change of use and we're working on plans
to submit probably in the next week The change of use triggers site plan approval So they're going to be required to come before you And yeah that's that's just I guess that's what's confusing me but that's fine I mean they can they can just So I mean they can do all these interior renovations and reopen it as a
restaurant without even coming right to the board That's why I'm so what they're doing is consistent with restaurant use inside So okay So but to this latest point um your client acknowledges that they're not going to open as a club without coming to this board That's correct So they're doing this work but
they can't start using it for something different until they come here Yes Okay Okay Yeah That's okay No it's actually a very good question All right So the vote stands Yep Okay I agree Yeah Yep All right
Thank you again Thank you All right Bye Thanks All right So the next thing on the agenda is this uh lovely piece of work the state development redevelopment cross acceptance response So I can talk to you guys about that That's you're
going to have to All right So it's very exciting stuff Uh you were invited that you being the city were invited to participate in the crossceptance process for the essentially the state plan It's called the state uh the preliminary
state development and redevelopment plan Um it's effectively called the state plan The last one that they adopted was in 2001 even though they're required to to readt the state plan every 3 years Um
they hold us to a 10-year time frame with our with our uh master plans but they have failed to meet their shocking Yeah So but anyway they're finally doing it Um and it what they do the the process is is
that the the county acts as an agent for all the municipalities within the county Um and they essentially take the city's comments and package them for the state for the for the adoption of the state
plan um they encourage public participation as well as the governing body and the planning board Generally it's my experience that the planning board leads the charge with regards to review of these maps and plans and and um recommendations that are in the state
plan Um so I and I strongly recommend that the city does participate in this Um so there are some dates uh there they have set up a new process They altered the process a little bit every time they
kind of do this but they have this new process called a cart which is the cross acceptance response template and they expect us to answer that um and submit that to the county by May 30th 2025 So
that's the first deadline that the city would have to meet Um and let me explain the the the importance of the state plan So um the city went through this process before and we also went through a petition
process where the city was deemed to be a town center Um that changes your planning area designation We're a PA2 when we received that designation That expired in 2023 we revert back to the
underlying planning area which is a PA5 an environmentally sensitive planning area Um that has implications when you're doing large-scale development that requires caffer approvals It also has effects on the city's permitting process So it's a good idea to follow up
and probably have that center designation um reapplied for and and secured Um so that's that's one of the things that can come from this process Um other towns have uh it has implications The state plan and the mapping have implications on sewer
service areas That's not really going to affect you but a lot of other towns that I that I've represented in the past um it's very important for them to do that But there um that to me that's your biggest impact is having that designation put back in place Um there
are other implications and recommendations that could in fact impact future planning So it's a good idea to participate in the process Um evaluate the maps evaluate the recommendations and make comments back to the county and have them carry that
to the state Um so my recommendation is to participate in this process I don't know whether I I I guess it's just it's pretty complex process I tried to water it down and explain it but it's essentially a red it's our master plan at a state level Um and the biggest
criteria are these planning areas and the mapping that results from them um and the impacts on the towns Where do we get information on that So all of this stuff and if if you if you click on the documents that were provided to you um it will take you right to the links So
the I think the the draft state plan was um is online You can click on that uh the cross acceptance manual which kind of takes you through the process h who represents you what the process is what are the deadlines um the what's that the
cart um that is also referenced um so is for it's an important process Craig from the city's excuse me from the city's perspective are you taking the lead on this and uh sort of as you do
with the master plan taking us through it You'll come back I mean what what's our participation level And then obviously usually so I kind of take direction from the city but what I've seen in the past is the planning board certainly carries is the tip of the
spear for this Um and then they what what their findings are are forwarded to the governing body Okay The governing body would accept those and then those after that has happened and any other you know they the state plan encourages all the other historic preservation
commission be involved environmental commission they can all comment by the time it gets to the governing body all of that comment should have occurred whether it's before the planning board level or Sure I'm just thinking about you're saying May 30th at 2025 Um we're at the beginning
of March with eight weeks ahead of us and all of that work to be done both at this board and then through the other um commissions and then up to council for endorsement and approval I could comment Can I comment here because uh a couple
of things uh have not happened in this process that happened 10 15 20 years ago Uh in 2009 Craig you remember that the city was involved in the plan endorsement process uh which was part of uh at that point
some po some requirement that the city would do this and get special treatment in terms of applications and grants That's what I mentioned That's that was that the center designation The center designation and the plan and the plan endorsement process was a pretty elaborate set of things that the city
had to do in order to qualify for that in this new state plan And I I would recommend that everybody read it because it's it's a significantly different document than the state plan that was issued in 2002 There is lots of things in here that are going to raise some
question marks for a town like Cape May because we're the way they're looking at it now We're not a center anymore We're an environmentally sensitive area And if we for example ask for a center designation to be restored we would be
surrounded by environmentally sensitive areas but we would be a town center Different regulations different requirements would apply for each of those groups the the the amount of time that we're being given not from you Craig but from the city from the state rather to digest this whole process is
just unrealistic If if if the city is going to either the city at this point has has pretty much only two options I think One of them is to just lay down and take what the state gives us because we don't have enough time or resources to actually plan through this thing
properly There's a lot of stuff in here that that Cape May needs to read and read carefully because it's not it it's not for Cape May in a lot of ways because Kate May is a unique place Sorry I I I I got a real problem with this and I have a real problem with it
primarily because I have a lot of history with it because as Craig you remember in 2009 I was the chairman of the plan endorsement committee which was part of this process and the the um God bless you the backward direction
That's it's tough I went through that in Dennis Township It was not fun It wasn't fun It was fun It was a lot of work and and and I I I think back on that process the entire community was involved because we were mobilized to input what
we think Kate May should be and how the state plan should meet our needs This document that just came out in December of 2004 and we're being given 10 months uh to read digest and respond to it uh but
all the responses have to go through the county and whatever we say may or may not be even considered by the county let alone by the state the the amount of of of um involvement by by the city of Kate
May is in my mind problematic because we're we're we're up against a a timeline and it's it's I don't know how to solve it except to maybe dig our heels into the ground a little bit and start putting together some recommendations to the council that the
council ought to be the ones log jamming this thing a little bit and slowing down I don't know how that happens but uh it certainly I don't know that they can um you know this this is happening at every county level Um and they all have the same time frame The first deadline for
May 30th is pretty much to answer these what are there 11 questions Um so it's not insurmountable It's something that you know as me as a planner I can do that on behalf of the board Um I don't know whether the board wants to set up a or the board when I say board the
governing body may want to set up a subcommittee it might you know well I wanted to me there actually is a a a subcommittee that been has been set up recently by uh the city manager um Mr Um Bill you're on it as the land use
development group which has representation from planning HPC zoning shade tree and environmental Correct That was the meeting we went to the other Yeah Yeah So there has been a group that's been formed There's nothing
done but no leg work no discussion Right But it that might be the the forum with Craig's participation in order to have this kind of discussion that needs to evolve over the the over time We get the first piece in that that Craig perhaps put together but then that body that
that group is is exists currently It just got put together and could be sort of the formation of working on this as an initiative um it be has the representation and if you look at if you look at what could be required by a by a
town in terms of data submission it's a mountain it's a mountain of data that so you're looking at the petitioning process and I would lead the you know if if my proposal would accept it I would lead the charge on that the state
crossceptance is not that docu document intensive um well we'll have It'll ultimately have to be if we're to make it will yes it will lead to that but the initial review of the plan is more about just review and comment and saying
this this goal of the state plan is directly inconsistent with planning in Kate May and that's that that those are the kind of things that you're coming out with Where where is where is the plan The state plan is on the website It's on the website It there's a draft state plan that's been provided on the
website It's 167 pages It's it's this thick If you go on the website if you go on the website uh there's a u I think they call it a userfriendly version of of this proposal And in that userfriendly
version is a link to the state plan I I didn't print it off either because it is 175 or so pages but I did read all of it And it's got it's got some real monumental issues that Kate May either h makes them address or has to live with
for the next 10 10 years It's not town by town specific No that's the other point too It's it's it's more state related and where it gets town related is these planning areas So if you're a planning area too and are recommending this this or that and then you're mapped
as a planning area or changed your your planning area changes that has implications We're no longer a town center You you lost your town center designation in 2023 We should make so that so participating in this will start
you down that road to getting that town center back But I think there are implications in doing that and those are the what we need to understand the difference between staying in the current designation versus going back and converting back to a town center What are the implications to that Um
rather than and I I think I have you had any conversations with Mr Dietrich about this at this point No he just forwarded this to me Okay All right Said please discuss this Yeah Okay So I mean I in in in my view there sort of needs to be I mean you know Paul is an engineer and
and in Craig's role as the you know board engineer there needs to be something that says what do we need to get to first There's a lot of work to be done with this and a lot of discussion as to what designation we want to be and what has the impact for that But I I don't want to jump to the end or the
middle of this process until we can get through what we need to get done by May 30th if that's an impending deadline Well before we go much further everybody everybody who's going to have a say in this issue at this point really ought to read that entire plan because what
you'll find uh is that the plan is state centered and that that and that power and authority flows down from the state and the state has set up at least 10 areas of required uh organizational and
procedural policies that everybody has to comply with And it there is it isn't a two-way dialogue between the state and the municipality It's a one-way dialogue because nowhere in the plan does the state give a municipal a municipality
the option of saying I don't want to do that Okay I mean yeah and and that's not uncommon when you file suit But what's what's uncommon about it is that the scope and impact of this particular state plan is way different from the one that we're living with under under the
2000 I I I understand I think what I'm just trying to say is what are the first steps that we need to get through by May 30th and then we need there needs to be an understanding at council uh and the governing body as to what needs to be accomplished and the implications and the decisions as to what you know which
way we're going to go down this You know it's not it's not unlike the changes that they were the state was proposing with uh the FEMA you know guidelines and the sea level and you know raising the roads and all of those other things I mean there are sometimes these decisions come down from a state level that don't
take into account local impact It's our role to make the decision that's best for the city and push back on those decisions So between now and May 30th you're going to have a hard time getting all the boards together You don't need to though right In unison
Do you not just need to get this this questionnaire Am I right or wrong Recommendation will be Yeah questions is to speak with the city engineer um about which is the appropriate committee to handle this I will submit a
proposal to him to do this work and hopefully it's approved and I will work with whichever committee is deemed appropriate and hopefully there's representatives from the planning board on that um and we will get we will start working through this process Am I right or wrong about my assessment of this
plan um the state plan and they they mentioned home rule in here but as I found in the last over the last 10 years with regards to this to the ordinances that we've been forced to adopt that have been handed to us from the state
and not allowing us to change those the electric vehicle ordinance the storm water ordinances um they have been very heavy-handed at the top and allow us very little home rule per se So I think you're touching on a couple
of those those issues and and a good example of how that's happening even before this is that whole business we had with the uh elevation the the flood elevation issue That's that's the one she just mentioned which is just we still don't know what we're
going to have to live with Right So and that's get and that's getting rolled into this as a as a don't talk don't discuss issue Right So well I so Craig's suggesting that I guess I talk to Paul and see if he can set up or work
with the committee now right There may be already a appropriate committee set up to address this Um as the deputy mayor indicated it would be nice to have Dennis understands this more than any of us Yeah I mean so we may want to reassess or include other members or you
know right the the state the the the template mentions all of the boards and commissions so I don't know whether it's fully represented if it is great um if not you know but we can we can make adjustments and certainly the board can
make recommendations if they want to see you know have more of an involvement I I for one don't completely understand the whole okay it's essentially a master plan on a time schedule two months done
by headed by the county for each town and so yeah it's the first the first step is May 30th so that's and those are the 11 questions and then there's nine weeks after that I think or I'm sorry no that's nine weeks four questions and then there's are the 11 questions you're
talking about it's the deadline's October the the 3 of 2025 for this plan to be done please indicate please elaborate please let it means everybody at the county and every one of these municipalities has to get on board There's a there was something that was
in here It's called a cross acceptance response template A2 and that is what's due on May Gotcha That's the one that's due in May Okay And that's not ridiculous And we can we can certainly meet that deadline Mhm Well
well we not not to come back We can meet that deadline But if you dig down into what they're asking for there's some there's some landmines in that thing and they're big and and we did get a copy of that so we can all read that
You have to go It looks like there's a public hearing where you can they have some information on March 26 2 to 4 I think it's um and I think it's a Zoom Yeah it's at Crest Haven
I personally think um Craig who has done the master plan here for 20 years should prepare a draft of answers to those 11 questions so that when he does when it does get to a committee or something
you're kind of starting from something on paper and you can agree with it or disagree with it or add to it But if you just leave those 11 questions blank and start talking you'll never get them done Nobody knows more about with all due respect to Paul nobody knows more about our planning than our planner for the
last 20 years So he should prepare a draft and then work from there I would fully agree with you Mr King My my only point was to make sure that this was on Paul's radar so that he's getting it in front of the governing body and any other committees that are required as part of this early process and then to
start to think about what is the strategy and what is the framework for getting the next pieces of I'm just saying help radar the invitation went to him and he forwarded to me to discuss with you guys so I so that's where we're
at um and I think we just need to move quickly on this please why don't we have a motion to to to hire Craig to to to that's that's where I'm not sure whether the the board is has funding for this or
not So so I'd like I can make a motion that I will have a discussion with the governing body on the fact that we've got this um immediate need for the completion of this 11 uh questions associated with this document and that
we need to engage Mr Herurles for that to prepare that so that we meet the associated timeline as set forth Second motion Good motion Makes sense Deputy Mayor McDade motions Chairperson Bazair seconds Mr
Gorgon Yes Deputy Mayor McDade Yes Mr Crowley Yes Mr Lhome Yes Mr uh Padus Yes Mr Krippen Yes Mr Joe Uh Mr Bizair Yes Thank you I think that's everyone
And I can I just make one comment about the um just a comment u if you haven't done it already it would be very helpful to read that template on cross acceptance responses because as I said before the
the landmines and this whole process are buried in those questions If anybody wants me to print the state preliminary draft just just provide the website so that we can go online Well you already got it because Karen sent it to us Yeah If you So in your documents
that you received in the email Okay There's links There's links if you click on and I if you click on them they will direct you right to that website Okay Yep So they are it is searchable Okay And I will also I will send Karen I will
send Karen the decision uh in the Jetty case that goes into some detail about that ordinance if anyone is curious You don't have to read it but if you're curious about it there's a lot of detail in there about how that thing works and why it's why we how it differs in the MLU and how they interact And I'll send that to to
Karen And if you're bored to death you want to read that after you get done the 186 page state plan you can read that That's why we pay you just before before we vote and move to the next sub subject on the um the payment of bills and stuff just something that's related So in
addition to the state development and cross acceptance process that we're going to be dealing with um there have been some things that have been popping up with the zoning board and applications and um and that kind of dovetail into our
um u implementation of the master plan recommendations some of the things we've talked about but they're starting to pop up more frequently Um we've had some habitable space uh garage conversion issues uh before the zoning board Um so
that seems to be you know coming to the forefront Um I know there's been recommendations for reviewing the the signage provisions within the ordinance Um and there there's also um I noticed um a couple of times in the last couple
of months uh we've had some applications where they applicants have been required to come back to the board for relatively simple things Um be and they really weren't asking for any variances but it's called a zoning review And there's a provision of the ordinance that says
if you've ever if you were if your property was a subject of a zoning approval before the various boards you're required to come back to that board Um so they've had to come back Um and I'm starting to get questions Do they have to come back for solar panels
fences stuff like stuff like that that are kind of relatively minor in nature that I that may be kind of ownorous for someone that's like pulling a permit So we may want to take a look at that ordinance just to review whether it's actually capturing what it's intended to do or torturing people to doing little
things that are property that are normal maintenance kind of stuff You want to do you want to do something fairly innocuous but because you had gotten a very Yeah Yeah that makes sense Yeah So so I know we kind of paused our implementation and we're looking for some definitions for workforce housing
and stuff like that So we I I think in the future as the agendas will allow we'll start attacking some of this stuff Is uh is parking on your list of things we want Well that's that's we're coming up to the all the the big parking issues So yeah that's on the list Okay that'll
be good I know you're waiting for that I am back to it Okay we have a motion to pay the bills I'll make a motion I'll second Mr Mr Gorgon motions Mr Krippen seconds Mr Gorgone Yes Deputy Mayor McDade Yes
Mr Crowley Yes Mr Lunhome Yes Mr Padus Yes Mr Krippen Yes Mr Bazair Yes Thank you Anything else for the board Motion to adjurnn Hey Thank you Dennis All in
favor I Thank you everyone Thank you I agree I