##VIDEO ID:tWJ4X0QRFsg## e e e testing [Music] y e okay good evening everybody compliance with public meetings Act of 197 minutes what I told you going to get trouble Jesus okay in compliance with the open public meetings Act of 1975 adequate notice this meeting has been provided should any member of this board have reason to believe this meeting is being held in violation of this act they shall so State at this time hearing n we will start with the Pledge of Allegiance United States of America repblic for stands na God indivisible Li okay roll call care yes Mr B here Mr Jones here Mr rigs Mr Crowley Mr gorgone here mayor mullik here Deputy Mayor McDade here Mrs Reed Mr lenol Mr pusis here Mr krippin here thank you that's it okay we have U the uh resolution for the city of K Municipal Public Access plan anybody care to make a motion to adopt that I'll make a motion I'll second first yeah we probably should let let's let's let's comment portion Craig let Craig explain it so um I believe everyone has a part of your package a copy of the latest Kate May Municipal Public Access plan or n um so this is something that the city was very proactive in doing when the the state New Jersey be um implemented this program um so it was implemented back in around 2015 um and on behalf of the city back in 2016 I prepared the original mun excuse me Municipal Public Access plan uh on behalf of the city the planning board endorsed it and we filed that with the New Jersey D that plan has been sitting idle there ever since um at that time there were uh numerous lawsuits uh with regards to this program so everything kind of got put on hold um so now we're firing this back up and be the reason we fire this back this plan back up one it's a good planning document and two it's related to your coastal zone management rules and the beach management General permits that are issued for the city so your Beach uh you know uh Beach uh Services um maintenance the beach fill projects are all tied to the this is being one of the requirements for those programs so it's very important um so this is a 2025 update that brings this plan current with everything that's happened since 2016 um it it encompasses all of the uh all of the city projects that have been done um for the proposed projects that were included in the 2016 plan so this is a plan that is not just sat there and collected dust but the city has been implementing recommendations that were contained in here it dve tailes into our master plan master plan has lots of recommendations in here that are included in here um and I'll just take you just briefly through this so there's an introduction it it just explains the history of the public trust Doctrine pretty much it it refreshes and reminds everyone that you have the right to use the seashore so this is a plan with that deals with access to your tidy flowed water waves oan theek as well as the C Harbor Harbor so those are the three those are your three bodies of of salt water cers on so this plan deals with any um Public Access and that Public Access does not need to be physical we don't need to be able to get there it can be visual we have visual project we have parts that you know have Vis visual access to these water WS but not necessarily physical um and that's explained within the plan so those things are dealt with um talks about the importance of these plans gives you an overview of the municipality this is also an inventory so in this plan it has an inventory of all the access points um whether they're physical visual Etc tells whether there's Beach badges required whether there's parking whether there's Ada accessibility um you know there's a there's a various inventory the state incorporates that inventory into their overall Public Access plan um so um it's good for that everyone the public is aware of all of these things so moving on um there's municip mun excuse me Municipal Public Access goals and objectives um those goals and objectives are echoed in our master plan so I pulled those out of the master plan brought those into this plan um and then there's a municipal plan master plan consistency review that's what we typically do for any ordinances that are that are brought before us obious the plan is is bringing forward those plan goals from the master plan so therefore I can offer you that it is consistent with your master the next section on page six is Public Access um that's a mapping and inventory of all of those locations um and then there is a limit there is a there is a section for the limitations to Public Access um so sometimes you want limitations to access for instance on Elmyra Street there's a bridge over Cape Island Creek it's environmentally sensitive we don't necessarily want physical access in that area because it would damage the environment so we we list those those locations of um areas where we don't want full access um and and state the reasons why those are but this is an inventory it explains our prominade the beach access wave um there's the next section deals with a community needs assessment that's essentially what can we do to make access better in the city um and one of the reasons why this this Municipal Public Access plan came out is because a lot of North Jersey municipalities had limitations more private property owner rights that limited people were just you know chaining off accessways that existed and habitually been used um and that became an issue and that's why this program started Kate May is not in that situation we have access almost at every street end that front on Beach Avenue um there is an abundance of access to um public uh beaches and um waterways within the city okay um So within that Community needs assessment they talk about um maintenance of the Beach programs the access to those beaches um we we talk about uh the fact that one of the things that we don't have the city doesn't have is access to marinas Public Access those are those are handed privately within the city so we do have private marinas and private you know docks Etc so we've recognize that and we say that this is not the intent of this to provide that um we recognize that that is limited and it's going to be provided by the public um we talk about dredging at the Kate May Harbor and Canal it's necessary for boating that's important um the physical access to Kate May Harbor at Harbor View Park there are proposed plans that are included with in in this plan the access need or physical and visual access at Cape Island Creek we now have the Lafayette Street Park which is proposing a boardwalk and and you know that actually goes out towards Cape Island Creek um we talk about the lengthening of the asphalt prominade um very important project and um to maintain and improve existing access wherever possible we have the city has done numerous Ada accessible accesses along the beachway um the prominade um 88 ramps that have been done along the prominade all of those things are included in this plan and this are proposed and encouraged to done so then there's an implementation plan um and from the city's website and from um the city engineer I was able to bring up all of the proposed or current project current construction projects that are going on within the city as well as the ones that are proposed so that section um that is section uh 19 uh page 19 20 21 22 and then it goes they the the New Jersey D pays big on signage so not only do they want you to have these access but you have to promote it through signage um making sure that the public is aware that they can access the beach at a this location you know whatever so there's there's signage requirements that are within this plan so that's a quick summary there is an appendix there's a model resolution for incorporating the municipal Public Access plan into the master plan um and it would be done by reference in the conservation element um but there's kind of that resolution that draft resolution that's a template that the New Jersey DDP provides kind of takes you through the process so the first step is for us to determine master plan consistency um and recommend incorporating this into the master plan and the conservation element um the governing body would next adopt this plan and I think they've already introduced it and it'll be on for second reading at the next meeting is is what I understand schedule is um then it is sent to the state it gets listed on the website and it gets put up for adoption and there is a public comment period so public is allowed to comment on it at the state level um and then finally the New Jersey D would adopt and then we have to Circle back and incorporate all of those uh approval dates into this plan you can see where I highlighted and left draft dates in there but um that's have any questions that's my quick summary of this so I just want to mention I have talked to um Mr Dietrich on page 19 under the Harvard viiew Park plan the amount that's listed here currently um is being verified it's um it's the amount that the county awarded just for that project um is less than this amount so this amount incorporates the nature trails so it's just a point of um clar clarification so so that would be a minor edit that wouldn't need to come back here that was Tak directly from the website yeah okay I I just I had a couple of questions um I think it's on on page 12 you talk about the parking um I'm not sure that's current as far as the parking uh uh the the the charges of 25 cents per 10 minutes isn't it different around Carpenter around the mall uh and maybe it should say or is amended or something like that so that way they ever change the parking rates um meter rates or even locations of meters you know it always be updated as as established by Council yeah this we can just add that Clause but this was once again I what was in there before was the 2016 data which is way outdated I I went and refreshed it from whatever information was on the city website right um there another one here I so whatever you're telling me is not up to date the website's not up to date uh the the other one on on page 11 uh just the typo uh next to the the uh picture that's there of the lifegard station um in the middle it says U mon lifeguards and cleanup Crews will be getting the beaches just looks like a words missing yes um and on the on the um on the next next paragraph there on beach tents and things like that you know you say that the fewer restrictions W were size uh restrictions imposed recently a long time ago just I don't know if that needs to be specified in there think it's kind of gray area there are few restri there are few restrictions on beach so if there's a restriction yeah so long as there's not there's few right so that's sufficient um maybe that's it no that's that is that's it okay there any other recommended changes or revisions here to make a motion to adopt we already have a mo we do have that we have it we we've in discussion okay so do roll call though okay we have motion by Deputy Mayor McDade seconded by Mr krippin Mr gargone yes mayor mullik yes Deputy Mayor McDade yes Mr bedus yes Mr krippin yes Mr Jones Mr bazer yes thank you okay the next item is uh just to go over the zoning board's annual decisions the list of their decisions and the reason we're looking at this is to see if there's a pattern of of approval for something that might uh warrant addressing in our ordinances several years ago we we we decided lot non-conforming houses and non-conforming lots whatever was being done did conform there was no variances needed yes so I I can illustrate that so this this is used by the planning board to recommend ordinance changes within the zone referring to was several years ago there was a pattern because of all of the undersized lot within the city someone couldn't just go build an addition onto their house even though that addition totally conformed with lock coverage building setbacks every other aspect of zoning but because it was on an undersized lot or width or area it was required to go to the zoning board and the zoning board was essentially rubber stamping those applications so changes were made to the ordinance I Know Rich was in in crafting that language and we stopped the zoning board stopped seeing that those things just coming in and it was it almost became a nuisance to developers that were trying to develop conforming uh additions and you know onto their houses and it so there was a there was a substantial change made that made um that process a lot the local attorney the local zoning attorney tell them forgiving me for that was it took away a lot of easy business because of the money being I've heard that now I do have a question about this there's still on over half of these there's still lot siid lot size yeah so yeah so what's so what that so what and I can explain so what the ordinance says is that you are not required to get those variances if you're development totally conforms with every other aspect of so essentially is says you don't need lot size lot width or lot Frontage if you can form okay that's it you don't then it brings it back into play got doesn't make sense but but it no it makes a lot of sense yeah because you're going to see variances on lots that are small because that's where you bump up against the sidey yards so most of your lots that come in for variance remember these aren't this isn't a planning board it's a zoning board so it's like someone putting on a little Edition or something like that they're usually on lots that are already overdeveloped a little bit anyway there's smaller Lots with bigger things on them so they're the ones that that come in more often and now those are they have a little ENC next to them existing non-conformities they're never decided on the base of lot area but there's always other issues with them so you're seeing lot area on there or lot size on there but then you're seeing four other violations along with it so you know front set back set back so they're just they're just smaller lots that that's where these things come up huge Lots don't have a lot of sidey guard variances okay just how it is so these aren't there's nothing to be done in my opinion about okay lot size on those there is one thing we could talk about um which is um solid fences we had an application a month or two ago where I learned for the first time that solid fences are permitted and are permitted in the front yard which to a height ofet height of fouret right Solid 4 foot fences in the front yards in Kate may I don't think is a look you're going for so I I just said we should bring that up to the planning board the the actual primary front front not a not a corner front yard a front yard even if it's no I understand I'm I'm just trying to clarify whether or not it was Street Front meaning from the primary you know from the address from the front of the house or was this a side was this a this instance doesn't matter much opinion but I'm telling that one had three front yards so okay all right this is the kind of stuff we get so it was a little crazy was down to the vento stuff but but that was how we learned because they were putting in they were putting at the end of vento but facing what is that Pennsylvania what is that no facing north essentially or Brooklyn yeah so there all those houses on vento this was this property sidey yard so you would have looked down the front yards on vento and there would have been a solid fence um in what appears to be the front yard even that was the side yard of this house and that's when I learned that you can have solid fences in front yards four foot high up to the yeah setback so it's and that's issue is not as big a deal in the historic district because that's in no way you know compatible with the historic streetscape so they typically do not get approved but outside of the historic area you're allowed to put a solid 4ot fence right up against the RightWay line or the property line so and the the zoning board asked I think they made a request that that we consider looking at that no one liked that idea yeah so the next step if you if you got if you agree that that might not that's just kind of a whole you know little tweak in our zoning ordinance you should asked Craig to draw up a proposed ordinance thing I'll look at it make that clear so you you're suggesting that the fences that are not solid would be allowed but solid fences wouldn't be that that's almost a that's almost a design criteria as opposed to a zoning n there there are zoning there are zoning ordinances actually a lot of them have an opaqueness requirement the says they have to be you know 50% open yeah just and that's a light air in open space that's a zoning issue well that sounds a better way to do it than just not to say yeah no no fences in the front yard so yeah I I would was solid were the issue right he saying if it's 50% open yeah it has for light air yeah that's okay yeah that should be incorporated into the language maybe put something so I so I will I'm working on I'm working on a lot of changes for you with the other stuff so I will bring that into our conversation and is everybody on board with that yeah I'm just curious why they had that in the first place because it was just never ex it was never noted that it should be ex if it's not disallowed it's allowed yeah okay all right got it any other comments on the uh the uh the zoning board also wanted you to consider Zoning for pools regarding the distance from principal structures they had two things they wanted you to consider okay I I think what that was about is this we have a 10- foot requirement from a principal structure for a pool so you have to have 10 feet between the pool and the principal structure whenever that comes up they ask Craig why that rule is there and Craig gives the history of it that it had to do with firefighting and that they wanted room to put a ladder up but other members of the board say well that might be run we one reason but we also think there should be a space all around the pool for emergency access so that you don't have a pool right up against the house so that if someone's drowning or Falls in over there you can't get over to it and have a place to pull them up onto the side we're jumping off a balcony right so but the problem is that right now it appears that the intent of that ordinance relates to firefighting so lot people come in and talk about firefighting issues or if they put a hard cover over the pool that can withhold that can hold firefighting stuff then they don't need they believe they don't need the 10 feet but it seems to me that there's additional reasons for that so we need I I thought the reason was more about people jumping in from balconies than it was from I mean I I do recall I was AR Arnold pit it was Arnold Pitman and it was it was the reason he cited and because that was a recommendation from the zoning board at that time to the planning board to make that to incorporate that 10ft separation and it was based solely on the getting a ladder up to those windows or the back of the houses in emergency situations it was none of this other stuff was mentioned but I think the zoning board feels it's important that the reasons should be stated in the ordinance for it so if they're granting a variance the applicant has to demonstrate that they're at least address ing that GRE is there anything else while we're doing that is there anything else you think we should do on that with regard to what is part of the principal structure because we had that issue about the deck attached not attached is there something we should do about that you're talking about the patios attached yeah probably I mean so what becomes gray area in evaluating these pools your pool your pool setbacks are not only to the pool they're to the patios it's says pools and patios connected so a lot of applicants now because it says connected or disconnecting it with a little grass strip of one foot wide and it's really still part of the pool I mean it's my opinion that that pool setback for the patios is because it's a commotion it's a it's a privacy issue and they want to step back the that activity that is associated with that use that pool use has to have the setback um and now we're getting applications that are they're they're putting a little strip of grass in and it's really connected to the well if if the issue was firefighting the patio should no this is a this is a separate this is a separate zoning control this is not one in your pool activity right next to your side yard right this is an Aesthetics this is now you're not talking about the distance from a house you're talking about distance to this is the side yard setep back rear yard set back something that I that was not what I intended to talk about I was talking about has to be 10 ft from the principal structure so is a deck is a deck but sometimes they put decks you know you come out onto a deck and then there's a pool right and we consider that deck part of the principal or you have steps coming down which that's that's not that doesn't affect the firefighting access part so if you if you wanted to Def find that it's from the M face of the main structure from the wall if we're going to say that it's not just firefighting then in these to be so that there's a flat area around the pool that's 10 ft and having it up against a 4ft deck you couldn't rescue somebody from that end of the pool you couldn't get there Vision a deck four feet in the air with a railing on it right and then there's a pool flat up against it anything that happens over there you have no direct access to that area of the pool what they say well it's not a firefighting Hazard because it's only a deck but it's like well yeah but it's still up against a structure you can't get all way around the pool well pools aren't that big to begin with I mean if you you can access a I mean I'm I have a pool you can access if somebody I don't have a deck around my pool but you got three sides that are open you're going to be able to access to get somebody if there's an issue going on yeah I I think we're we're overkilling this thing personally I I don't know I just yeah most of these residential pools are you know 10 by 20 yeah at you know they're they're fairly small and like I said there's at least three sides to get to get to it by and large had a situation yet where somebody couldn't get anybody first of all we haven't had a drowning in town um I I I can all I don't this is policy not I don't vote okay so you guys do whatever you want with pools I can tell you the very the very clear Sense on the zoning board is that pools are very impactful use and they believe they should be limited to the yards that have that can very easily accommodate the pool otherwise it ends up being a pool that is not just in one backyard but in four backyards uh so your your sense that oh we want to make pools easier to be constructed and even on more densely po densely improved Lots is not the consensus of the Zoning Board in my experience well I think the question is is the 10 feet a safety issue like you just brought up or is it a firefighting issue what which is also a safety issue but you know which which is it is it both or is it I don't think I think having been on the zoning board when some of these applications come up I think it really comes down to an issue of density of um where these things are being placed in proximity in the lot and the you know overflow into a neighboring property most of the time people are coming are you know concerned about that um and so I I think what it what it doesn't address is the issue of quality of life for the surrounding areas the surrounding homes um and especially if these are rental properties Etc not to be disparaging against that but it's just that that's what they're looking at and that's what they're hearing from the people who are coming to testify so the 10 feet that almost almost encourages people to put the pools further away from the house if you would encourage it to be closer to the house you have a yard that can hold the pool well that's that's a lot of coverage a lot of these pools are going through the Govern the the governing body has addressed the ordinance as it relates to some buffering there are now Landscaping requirements we have not and I'm and I get to inspect these after they're approved and there hasn't been many that have been done yet but I've seen a couple and the buffering is much better than what we were we there was no buffering requirements now before and now we're seeing the buffering um I believe that it's a significant Improvement so I'm I you know a lot of our pool problems are from the existing ones and I think the governing body has listened to the zoning board and the planning board recommendations and Incorporated that I don't you know I don't know whether that's going to be enough or not that you know time will tell but there has been steps taken can I make a suggestion I don't think any of us well I can't speak for anybody else I know I'm not a pool expert I do know I've never seen a a commercially designed designed pool of any size that didn't have space all around it for emergency access and my I've never seen one so but I don't know the rules so maybe Craig could he is an engineer he's not just a planner he's actually is a real engineer uh he could actually look and see if there are safety requirements that have that 10 foot around not just for fire but for other reasons and then you could decide decid it based on right science enough and if it turns out that it's just for firefighting then at least we know but I can tell you the board has expressed frustration that they believe it's for other reasons but the historical is just fire so we get stuck with it any other comments on the zoning boards nope okay um payment of bills uh motion to pay the bills motion second okay Mr CPP and motions Mr gargon Seconds Mr gargone yes mayor mik yes Deputy Mayor McDade yes Mr produces yes Mr krippin yes Mr Jones yes Mr bazer yes thank you anybody have anything else for the good of the order did we approve birs did we approve our dates we did lastek last week this is just final copy yeah okay okay final motion final motion final motion second all in favor thank you everyone and good night so you know next next next week way for two days next week my brother's in t