##VIDEO ID:BCvhF79ODM0## e e e e e yes say tting testing e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e the meeting of the August 13th Shion ers public meeting act 1975 adequate provide from pledge Al to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all please sure Jay here uh Shane here uh Carol Jor is here Carol sik here uh Barb here George W here George a here Jim here Frank here Ron here that's it okay you have the minutes from the uh this July meeting I think in your package take a moment to look through and P a motion to approve as presented Barbara turn on your okay I'm sorry are there any changes suggested to the uh minutes from July 9th meeting I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes presented make okay make a motion Carol York uh second by Carol sik all those in favor I any disapprovals any are there any abstentions one exstension two two extensions okay approved okay we have some guests in attendance today uh on 905 KY Avenue you want to come up to the microphones here and press the buttons on the microphone till they turn green if you would please there you go is it okay to be seated yes and you're appealing a decision in a 9005 KY right yes which is a Lone Pine Tree near your neighbor's your garage or the neighbor's garage right between my garage and my neighbor's garage between the two oh okay matter of fact my neighbor is Wayne Connors and I believe he he's the one he's the one that you're facing the houses to the West yes he's on the corner okay and that's the garage and your garage is attached to your house yes and his garage is a standalone correct all okay and the tree in I guess well my name is Brett Marriott we've been in 905 KY since I think 1987 ah you're still a newcomer yeah yeah I know yeah so about 30 37 years I guess um so yeah the tree in question um I bought a I have it in the computer here right sometimes I guess a picture is worth a thousand words I could show it to you and I've seen it okay you've seen it anybody else want to take a look at the tree pass it around take a look at it yeah I guess you can make that bigger sir may I ask a question before your presentation who's tree okay that's yeah does this property reside on I I just wanted to make sure it was the same didn't answer me is that your tree or the Connor's tree the only reason I think it's my tree is because there's similar pine trees on the other on the other side of my house so it seemed to me that it probably it probably is my tree but it's right directly on the property line all right but my neighbor Way Wayne Connor also filed his own application yes before I did yes try to remove the tree because it's I I think we were in process of giving that $75 back because we believed it's on your property and not his so he can't file he can't file a a claim to take down a neighbor's tree I understand okay and Sir would you mind before one more question we noticed that the tree was trimmed who paid for that tree to be trimmed he did he did okay see the thing is it's when the tree was down had had growth lower than this it was sort of much hanging right over his garage um and as you can see by the picture what happens is the tree that that tree is actually I looked at it today about 8 Ines from the way it's tilted from his garage roof uh if that tree goes down which what happened is when he had the guy out to to trim that tree it was the tree Barber and I think his name was Nels or NE NS yeah and N said you got to get this you got to get this treat down I I walked out of my garage that day Wayne was there and Nels was there and Nels said this tree's got to go it's going to if it if it falls over it's going to go that way take out his garage and my neighbor out back's deck out back how would it do that if it hit the garage well that just based on I think it would collapse his garage right I mean and then go right for the well cutting it the way they did didn't help the stability of the tree it's a Lion's Tail you know the Lion's Tail straight up and everything is that at the top that puts an awful lot of tension on the way to that tree should have left some of the branches down the sides that was a poor in my opinion a very poor uh tree trimming job I think I I I would say it's like a sail now if you get a strong wind it's all right up there most and most of the branches that were removed were already impacting the roof of his garage Mr Connor's garage or hanging directly over top of them not some were resting on it some were above it and so that was more of a concern for his structure and his grandchildren um but they removed some of them and then I guess some of the other side was maybe for Aesthetics I don't know but certainly some of them were deemed necessary at the time right here's my son Brian Brian's Brian's a lawyer you wonder you understand why I like to have ranches lower down on the tree stability harmonic effect it dampens that a little bit uh and now you got a lollipop up there you got all the weight up in the top of that tree correct I'm not disagree all right any more any other discussion I I think my opinion I think that's should be there when you and I are dead and gone but that's a whole other that's a whole other thing any tree what did you say Joe any garbage can any piece of large lawn furniture or deck furniture can become a missile under the right circumstances so you know under the right circumstances you know everything will blow over so you can't make everything perfect but I I think that tree is a long way from blowing over but difference between have other and obviously you have different opinions well if the storm comes in you take trash cans and Lawn Furniture inside and you try to remove those missiles here we won't be given a choice if there's a heavy snow or a heavy wind that tree at least part of that tree is going to come down um and it's going to come down in a bad spot it's not going to come down in our back yeah when when it comes down it's going to destroy the garage of course that's what yeah that's what insurance is for I I listen can I can I just take one more minute sure I'm not I don't see this as any kind of an adversarial situation I'm a I'm a pro tree guy if you if you look at my house in the front of my house now there's two big cherry trees they weren't there when I bought the house I put them in like 30 years ago and now I got two beautiful flowering cherry trees I also planted a big flowering pear tree in my backyard gigantic now you know big uh I I wouldn't want to take this tree down but I I'm worried about my neighbor you know he's been there a long time we're we're friends I don't want this thing to fall down on his garage well we did have uh two applications one was dated um May 24th and yours was uh June 20th actually 27 I think um both were denied on removal of the tree although Mr Connor had a uh a second tree U near his deck that we that he did remove yeah in his backyard his backyard yes um uh we asked within the denial that the tree be trimmed and obviously Mr Connor had the tree trimmed oh okay um and my concern is that um it appears to me that the the root base seems to be in good shape it's actually lifting up I didn't see that and I've been there three or four times now that ground that ground is humped up a little bit but it's if you walk on it it yeah it's not spongy at all it's all solid it's very spongy it's very spongy it's all that's not even soil it's all things that have falling off of that tree over the last you know number of years it's very spongy we believe that the root system may also be impacting the water run off in that area it's causing the the water not to run off in its proper swelling form um so wood are actually collects in that area because of the roots that are currently raised a little bit um so that's another concern the ground is softened if you look on Google Maps you can notice that the neighborhood and entirely is uh slanting towards frog frog H Hollow already so I think just the fact that trees there it looks like there's a hump but I think it's stopping the grading towards that direction in my opinion yeah Wayne Wayne he said something about there should be a water it's a natural water or supposed to be a water runoff there from the back to the to the street and the water's not I believe he said he sent somebody to not to the shade Tre Mission but to maybe the engineer or somebody somebody else about that situation the water because the ground's raised up from the this tree the water's not able to go run off flow flow is that able to flow from the back of the house to the street correct correct the the tree created I'm looking now to Tre created a crown basically at the midpoint of the garage or the length of the garage so you're not going to get water flow in one direction of the other it's basically going to Pond up against structure and also flow in each side of that right that's some will go out towards the street looks like a pretty good pitch going that way the water that's going to go towards the back uh is probably just going to Pond there it's going to have nowhere to go that's what he said yeah the base of the tree is definitely raising the ground up it's not no doubt the at the crown of the tree it's definitely elevated probably a good foot above natural grade of where it was I mean my bigger concern and your neighbor talking for him is not so much it looks like a very healthy tree the chances of it coming down of course as Jay had stated in a storm anything can happen you know given the right conditions the bigger concern is the proximity of this tree and the size of it now to this structure um it's only going to be a matter of time till these tree roots are going to start to do damage to his foundation of the garage um as we see there's in this photo even it shows debris getting caught between the tree and the garage roof um and as you stated um lower limbs were removed that were actually probably rubbing back and forth in wind conditions and such taking and doing damage to his shingle if you look at I'd be more concerned about that that the tree and its location it's proximity to this structure to to anybody's guess to say a tree is going to come down in a storm especially when you're looking at a health like that I also have an OP it can withstand category one stone for all we know you know what I have an opinion also to speak because I've had an experience that we're talking about with the sponging of water in the where I had a huge Pine Tree in my yard that came down because the wind was blowing in a usual unusual opposite direction it pulled the entire pine tree out it handed landed on my house from the roof to the basement and let my you know cuz you saw it you said luckily it was a pine tree it would ripped my entire house side of my house apart so that's my concern not so much about wind blowing the tree over on the garage it's more about the tree being pulled out of the condition of the ground so that that's just my opinion it looks to me it's more of a shed though right than a garage it's a garage it is a garage okay keep so my question was is who was there first the tree of the garage well Shane I I have who who would who would plant a who would plant a garage next to a tree at the time though when the garage was built the tree may have only been a little sapling I mean it was a sapling when we it was a half it was the size of the garage when we moved in the question I have is and and I applaud neighbors looking after neighbors but I'm still not sure who owns the tree uh and are we making a decision um on a tree that you don't own well one or the other owns it and they both want the tree to be removed but it's it it's 99% I mean we can go get a survey done it's on our property on my dad's property well I don't know I have surveys of the property but I don't think it shows the tree it just shows the buildings right but the thing well what whatever the city's not going to pay to take that tree down no I be after to the private homeowners however they work it out to take that tree down so that's not really a money is not a at least to us is not a concern not a not a Street yeah sorry for inter I got to tell you the tree this this peir tree that I planted in the backyard yeah it is a garage is uh I guess 25 30 ft tall now it's a big nice big tree and that almost got blown over in into the back of my house it didn't oh actually one branch came down 20 years ago I'm so nuts in my liking for trees that I had a cable put around that tree and tied off to this gigantic other lilac bush in the back of the yard that Cable's been there for 20 years I just took it down this year the guy cutting the grass used to have to duck under the cable to cut the grass so I'm not you know I'm like a tree guy but but this is just a dangerous situation okay what's the pleasure of the having heard the testimony from all concern should we have should we have an arborous look at it I don't no no and arborus could tell us if any of the concerns that have you r have you had a chance to look at this tree no but uh looking at the pictures the picture that he showed there the trunk of the tree has not hit the neighbor's garage and I know Nels has been out of business for approximately 4 years now in the last four years we've had 60 MPH plus storms and the tree didn't come down then so and it there's no evidence that the trunk of it that it's swaying back and forth that the trunk trunk of it has hit the garage in Wind so I mean unfortunately it was lion tail and the reason why Li in tailing is bad is because wherever the branch structure starts that's where the tree bows so further down you keep the branch structure the thicker the trunk is that's now taking the brunt of the sweat uh like I said I don't see any evidence where it's actually in a storm boat over and and hit the garage next door the trunk of it his shingle on his roof right next to that tree are they're already damaged I think by virtue of what you're saying um I don't see in those those photos though that phot that you show up would you wouldn't see the damage you know but looking at it from the side I I actually I cleaned it off I cleaned the branches that had fallen from the street under his on his roof shingle I took them down but the trunk isn't hitting is what I'm saying the trunk is not no absolutely not it's about I it's maybe 8 in yeah away it might not hurt that if they want to have an arborous look at it and really look at it I mean the root structure and because of how it's that root Mound has raised up you know to have an arborous look at that condition to see if that has you because if the roots start to become undermined if air pockets become in there if it is roots rotting you know you know there's no root structure on half of this tree that's the garage because obviously the garage is preventing any root structure on that so you're only going to have roots on the other half and if those roots do become compromised it's not going to be hard I mean we've all seen good siiz live trees fall over and wind because the ground gets saturated with water and then if the roots don't have anything to hold on the wind is blowing from a it doesn't normally brow from so the tree is not braced for that unusual Direction um are you suggesting perhaps we hire we get uh Mickey Riggins from Arbor care in to take a look at the I think it would be appropriate only because of the root Mount I think otherwise the tree does look healthy and I think everything is right but my only concern would be the way the root Mount has elevated up a good foot from natural grade now it might have taken a long time to do that I don't know but it's definitely elevated above natural grade that would be my concern but I don't I don't know that we should be the ones paying for an arborist to check it if it's on private property I mean I think if the owners want to get if we feel that that's the criteria that we're going to base this decision on that's a suggestion we need to put forward to the homeowners the expension in my opinion come out of our budget for you normally charges like $55 I think but regardless but that's my op we see the condition of the of what they've just described about the soil and everything and the the sponginess so what what would we accomplish with doing that that's when need to that wasn't my that's only to determine a healthy healthy or non-healthy tree not the condition well none of us are experts to determine whether it's healthy and I don't know that the health of the tree is the issue no I don't think it is the healthiest tree in the world could come down comes down it's going to be major damage and I'm I'm not I don't know what the shade tree but if you said that every tree in Kate may could come down because every tree in the the city is in proximity to a structure AG right so so if we can't use we can't use the the the criteria if it comes down it's going to hit something understand every tree in the city is going to hit something but and again I'm not sure the numerator powers of the shade tree commission include trees's own private property I think you guys might be public parks roadways Parkways Etc but I don't think this is the sort of aesthetic tree that you're seeking to preserve especially when the homeowner hases all trees are aesthetic in our eyes and secondly the problem was exacerbated by your neighbor uh correct by but Buton recommendation I think by this commission to have it trimmed well that's you CH they chose the the arbor the trimmer to do that I'm just trying to figure out and I understand we're trying to save all the trees um the homeowner has improved his property greatly by putting several other large trees on it and this one I I can only show the picture so many times this is this is an accident waiting to happen um there's no way that any other tree in the city there might be 10 other trees that are in that kind of dangerous proximity to something leaning over and look like it's going to the thing about the uh the Pines are in Kate may they they war in a certain way because of the Winds the closer you get to the ocean the more you know exactly exessive they are other sh which is is do not grow straight up in the air anyway is that what that is that's a black Japanese black Japanese black and they don't grow straight up in the air they grow all the one on the other corner of the property that's not that's not we're not talking about today is going in the exact opposite direction yeah this goes this way the other one goes the way they grow they're just now what this gentleman said here that's exactly what the uh guy from tree Barber now did you say he wasn't in he was not in business for four years or something no it's not it's not tree Barber is not NS Johnson is not Nels Johnson anymore he sold it to a a Hispanic gent oh okay they gave me a card and said NS on it yeah uh but it was the hispanic guy they they did the tree trimming right that you guys recommended and he said I mean he's saying this is like a no-brainer this this is a m this tree is a major problem it's spongy the roots are you can actually see a pretty long section of the roots above the grass you know I mean when you walk on it you're walking on the roots trees uh to me like it's going to go I mean I'm not saying it's a dead tree or an infected tree or else but if a strong wind comes that tree's going that tree's going I mean it looks like it's obvious very obvious I think because there's so much discussion here and back and forth we ought to have a professional look at it for another perspective to do what we should have an a professional look at it from their perspective there's so much you know give and take here on either side I all right and we'll and we'll and we'll pay for this shade commission will pay to have Mickey Riggins or some someone like com in to take a look at this three I think that's reasonable all right we're going to have okay Arbor Care Resources come in and look particularly at the the whole tree raised up area you know the the root system of the tree and the whole tree itself uh and then we'll go from there we'll get a should get a report back before the September meeting so we should be able to resolve this if we get a report back in uh before that uh you know if it says it must come down right away I can we can make a decision to give you for 75 bucks or something like that you know to take to take it down okay but hopefully we won't have any major storms in to prove us all wrong I'll tell you what last week I I didn't sleep one night last week I'm thinking got him you know this is going to go down right right they were calling for high winds last week you ask Mickey rein and members of take a look at that tree particularly the base and the root area of the tree give his opinion yes all right we'll we'll do it that way I'm sorry we could resolve it here now a lot of the members have looked at that tree over the past several weeks uh and don't feel it's in any way shape or form ready to come down uh but uh you know not to say it not to say it isn't but I I don't I believe that you're not guaranteeing us that it's not going to come right right right we thank you for your time I want to just ask we also not thank you for your concern also sure but under new business I think you have the address of 901 and 905 KY listed will there be further discussion during your old business discussion about these trees in other words should we stick around or are you done talking about iend we actually talked about this last month okay and I think that agenda item was a followup to last okay EXC yeah it's it's online YouTube if you want to check it out so we'll ask we'll ask our normal person a tree expert is Mickey Riggins from Arbor Care Resources he works pretty closely in Westgate Bay so he's down in this area a lot so I don't ant unless he's on vacation I don't anticipate any length of time before we can take a look at that tree excellent and we'll let you know right away yeah I'm not an arborist Mickey is you know what I mean yeah he is if Mickey says this is fine what happens if a month from now the tree falls over and takes out my my neighbor's garage as I said who's responsible for it as my question that could happen what's that it can happen anywhere in town here yeah and as I as I said before any piece of yard furniture you know any roof uh any tree under the right circumstances can become a missile in a storm you know so you don't really we would bunge those down when a storm com we're trying to bungee this tree down to make sure it doesn't become that missile um but thank you all very much for your consideration thank you appreciate you coming do you want me to turn these off yeah yes please you have another appeal in your in your package I think from a 921 Stockton it's the tree in the backyard C oh thanks uh the the treat of Jay's referring to uh the application for 921 Stockman was for for two trees uh one was a a young Cedar that uh was uh next to a garage but it it's uh trunk and its root system was was shot so we gave that we acknowledged and we gave that permission to be removed uh it hasn't been renewed yet by the way and that was from April uh the second tree that they asked us to look at was a honey locust um in the backyard in the backyard this this this house uh goes from its property goes from Stockton Avenue which it house faces Stockton Avenue but it goes all the way through under the next street which is Kerney Kerney street so it goes it's a whole block between the two not a block but it's a long property and this tree is in the backyard and in uh we looked at we looked at this tree uh and uh George and I looked at this tree and the tree is in perfect health it could use a little trimming everything and shaping with the Tre is in perfect health now she's the U The Gardener sent a whole bunch of whole bunch of stuff in here um whole bunch of whole bunch of U uh FL uh in this thing which doesn't really B on this health of that tree in the backyard um but I think we should just keep that keep this appeal or keep this uh denial going on this particular tree and redo our recommendation that the tree be properly trimmed and thinned out a little bit um if I can I hope everyone read George the tor's email last last week or this week George I don't when you spoke about honey locust oh yeah but there does seem to be in Kate May it's tough to find a fully healthy honey Locus I mean this this tree I think is three4 healthy but seems like there's something a Miss particularly this year for some reason the honey locust this year so just caution and I don't know exactly what it is or why it's why that's the case but all over town long established trees are having a lot of dieback there's the one on routing your neighborhood right across and um but the trees are still alive alive something yeah but it's almost like a fungus or whatever I'm not sure but that would be something we should probably ask for Mickey Ran's opinion if that's a good idea on that kind of thing because it's not just affecting one tree it's almost all of them well we haven't had any we haven't had any unusual circumstances it's the usual drought followed by a monsoon followed by another drought stuff like this now all that affects trees usually I I find that that affects the sycamore trees every time you get too much rain the leaves fall off you get too little rain the leaves fall off it's too hot the leaves fall off it'ss too cold the leaves fall off you know so syar trees are always dropping leaves one thing or another but this the first time I've had it you know with the small leafed locust trees m a lot of L of it's from the the stress of drought that we had a couple years ago it's just like a development when you put a development in you don't and they run around the the trees with tractors and and whatnot you don't see the effects of it for three five seven years up to 10 years you can see the you know get the effects from it so you don't get it right away and we did have a drought a couple years ago which put a lot of stress on the trees which are starting to and we're starting to see some of the effects now interesting yeah with d with Dbacks on trees should we be in a real hurry to cut back uh those dead branches on the tree Once a branch dies it doesn't come back to life there's no way that'll regenerate so you got to cut it off all right but Ron when it does have the die back so it affects the health of the tree but in terms of what you've noticed cut back the dead limbs the tree still has some vibrant areas to it yes it's it's it's tree is only going to keep alive what it it can essentially support so if you have a Dr a drought the tree actually loses its limbs because it's it doesn't need that much food or it doesn't have that much food to support the whole canopy so it actually kills itself back a little bit to try to to C to get that that and but you'll get a once you take that debt back you'll get a lot of trunk uh or uh I forget what the name of the the buds are now but they're right underneath the bark of the tree they'll start sprouting out to give it New Growth to because now it's supporting like this summer has been a real rainy summer so now it can support more and it'll start they'll start growing so it's advisable to take that yeah it's advisable cuz the tree is trying to squeeze itself away from those branches so by cutting them off you're actually helping the tree to keep from having to do that thank you thank you all right so on this one on uh 92 921 Stockton Avenue uh we still we're going to still uh ask that the tree perhaps in the the locust tree whatever in the backyard uh be trimmed are you know properly trimmed uh and shaped but did I permission to take it down and they still get granted permission to take the the uh Cedar the cedar down yes sir all right all right um shade the uh tree Conference in October um six I think 16th is what is the dates 17th and 18th which is a Thursday and Friday uh in October uh I hope many more of us can go to that conference than went to the last one which was me and and I think you and did you go to that one too think but you guys we weren't getting any credit for that because you guys both went for your core training now it's you have to sit through those regular meetings which is bring a book some yeah but Jim and I learned a lot in that boring uh I bring a book with pictures in that's what I do but no please and and get your applications in sooner than later for either Thursday or Friday the 17th and 18th God bless us at least we don't have to travel up to Cherry Hill we go to Harris uh up on the inlet in Atlantic City Which is less than 30 35 minutes away so so Jay yes do we Jay what over here yes um do we have to send in our own application no you tell tell Connie that Connie which days you want to go and she will please fill it fill out you got the application here I just got it thank you interesting you really Len okay um 20 Patterson 20 Patterson Street um there's no activity on that I go by two or three times a week it's still not the tupo trees are still not there Paul can you ask code enforcement to write a a letter uh say ask where the new trees are on Tony Patterson we had we had corresponded with the owners before and we had sent them a I believe it was a registered letter yes code enforcement did and they were they agreed that they put in the wrong species of trees they put in two pair instead of the Tupelo that they had agreed to originally um 20 Patterson yes and that's several months back now I can understand if they wanted to wait until fall because it's more successful usually a more successful planting time for trees but we haven't heard that from them you know if they can reach out and tell us when they decide to plant we we're accommodating as long as they're going to plant them at some point right right exactly the what as long as they let us know when they're going to plant them we're going to be accommodating as long as they're planted sometime soon yeah I think if we just asking when what's what's the what's the uh you know the date they intend to plant these trees this Situation's almost two years old we've been fighting this year we've been watching them as they destroyed the the construction equipment destroyed the root area of those trees while they were building that U that Mansion uh for it was a one and a half story ranch house that was in there and there's two very large double truck maple trees they weren't any exceptional trees but they were well all and healthy but not after the construction equipment start driving through them and around them and piling and construction uh materials on against the tree so all right um can I just ask George uh these Tupelo they're readily available to most they are yeah they're they are more common species to be found okay we've planted several in the city yeah the Tre seem to be doing well the spending the money on having them watered by P Matt not seems to be paying off they seem to be uh FL all of them seem to be fine except the one in Harbor Harborview Park what's happening with Harbor View Park we're planning to get grant funding to uh reconstruct the park there are there some plans to redo that that part yes yes okay does that mean to take a lot of the trees that they are out or just resculpt the trees that are there or add new so what a little bit of both but it's basically going to be a new park most of it's going to be taken out and and replanted and reshaped interesting that's neat so are we going to be when I say we the sh Tre going to be involved in that at all I mean when the final plan's done I'll give you a copy of it so you can see what's going to happen yes what I can send you a copy when the final plan's done for your you know for as an FYI but it's not going to come here for if that's what your question was Rotary Park Rotary Park we're not are we going to take over the maintenance of City going to take over the maintenance of Rotary Park yes can you handle those tall sycamore trees near the Bandstand they're really they're really up there yeah yeah we can do it uh I think probably you should take a look at those and start planning planning on getting up and taking a few of those widowmakers out of there there's several right near the Bandstand that's got some dead wood back and this is a function of all the work they did around the base of those trees years the the trees were were in a decline some of the trees really actually need to come down they were in a decline long before they redid to park yeah uh just Unfortunately they didn't once they redid the park they had an arbor come in there in the beginning but then they haven't done anything to the major trees since then right so and some of them are right on the curb or or Hollow I mean there's not much holding them together and the tops of them just keep dying back further these three trees long off yet yeah right okay yep which get hit every once in a while by Auto y all right well as long as we're talking about Parks um we'll go back to the topic of Kanas Park when that was redone who did that do you was it was that through a grant too or that was mostly funded through a grant yes because a lot of those trees did not make it that were planted in there I mean there's a number of them there's two or three probably yeah and some of them are only half half alive and I was just curious as to who picked out the tree species because the landscape the land ape architect that designed the park so we weren't we weren't consulted with that I know but my point is and there's a lot of Open Spaces where they put very small uh tree species in there which doesn't make sense to me I mean that would have been the perfect opportunity to put a nice elm tree instead of an amalan or which is never going to be you know anything substantial in fact it's dead and then cusa Dogwood is another species so that's that's the only my concern is or my suggestion would be that when there's some kind of planting being done if we could at least be I mean I know we're not going to have the final say over but if we can use our suggested tree list for the larger trees or whatever when those are um those kind of projects take place it would I think that be a much better effect at the end I I I think that's totally reasonable I mean some other special interest group groups are part of these plans decisions why aren't we you know why aren't we on the Forefront of this these PL happening you know we are the shade tree commission we're in charge of the trees you George know what trees survive and what don't you know we know what as a collective what it needs to you know water these trees you know get them going so that they can mature finally I think uh it happen I feel like this commission I'm speaking as of the aison was treated somewhat but like the redheaded stepchild you know we're not involved too much we feel like we are ignored by the HBC and and the other boards that the trees are not necessarily important and we don't have a veto power you know as long as we were involved I think it gives us an opportunity to be happy with the final result and not ask questions like who decided to do this and why weren't we involved in the decision-making process I agree because you know what that's a waste of time that's a waste of money that's a waste of abuse beautiful tree that could have been planted somewhere else mhm and then and wasted opportunity for another tree to survive and and Thrive MH exactly thank you and also then as one last question the Franklin Street project is is there a timeline set for when that's start looking that we're looking to get that project out to bid I think I'll have authorization at the next council meeting to get that out the bid okay for that so that might be sometime in the fall yes it'll be in the fall project tear down that single story building where the uh no that's this is for the street radio station is well it's for the whole streetcape okay yeah we don't need all can I ask Paul I haven't been down to salus park in a while just uh if you can sort of recall how many like larger mature healthy trees would you say are on that property any guess where at at saor Park you mean Harbor View Park Park isn't that the park that's no we're talking about Harbor View Park oh Harbor Park sailors and soldiers is up off Harborview Park is located where I'm fil Texas Avenue and Harborview down by Wawa yeah okay just down a block from the fisherman Moro yeah okay now we were okay so let's talk about that property uh mature trees or no For What on that property are there any larger mature trees that are I don't Rec I don't that was my question I think it's mostly shrub yeah mostly shrubs yeah mostly shrubs I don't think there's anything there's nothing substantial didn't make it that's a rough area to plant because Salt Air and the and the Sun is brutal down there and wind yeah yeah and when we're talking about the Soldiers and Sailors you're you're talking about like the fisherman's Memorial that part no no Soldiers and Sailors is up off of Columbia Columbia the Little Triangle Little Triangle there is only one tree in there with Maple yeah yeah on the not on the what do you call Eastern side yeah and then there's a little crepe myrtle thrown in there but it's almost that's more shrub like than anything okay Jim physic estate yes you gave approval for three of those trees four of the eight four to come every other yeah every other Tre know pardon every other tree every other tree and how about are they going to plant four other trees we're going to revisit that they're more than accommodating to do that um it's just that they don't know species and locations yet but they are more than willing to I don't care I you know I don't care where they put them yeah so we are we are going to meet I I I've spoken to um Jody and uh we'll meet with uh Mac and we'll talk that over and if you'd like to be in attendance I'll make sure you're there you can make some suggestions of location and such well they'd be they couldn't rush into it right now anyhow because they're just not prepared for it at this point in time but they they're more than been willing to plant and what type of trees are they removing L I'm not familiar with they're lyen lyen trees yeah yeah they they're they were planted on the Eastern side of the porch of that's when they redid the landscape years and years and years ago so they're not extremely large oh they're they're fairly they're fair5 40t tall now and silver Lon they're close to each other and they're rather almost like a like a uh uh what do you call the one of these maple trees that the go straight up and they they're pretty close the branch structure is more almost you know more more of a vertical type thing they're really tightly packed and there's no way to get in there that I can see to open them up oh no so they said they they copied the landscape design from the or from the original that's what I and that's the only reason why they went with that not expecting over time uh now we've own 20 years or so since the time they planted these Tre and um it's just blocking out all sunlight they can't get any kind of growth underneath so you know it's a very active area for tourists and all and it becomes nothing but a big mud puddle after some light rains and you know um they would love to try to get some maybe grass growing under there some other vegetation be shrubs or whatever but as of now just no sunlight and because I guess the trees just take every bit of moisture out of the soil it's almost impossible to to plant anything well I think they're going to have to if they replace trees they're going to have to put them in the back of the property then because we're considering uh one location would be along uh where the band stand is in the back right and to hopefully as years pass if you've been to events there um so this the late day sun and most of those events take place in the in the later part of the day um comes in from that angle and there is absolutely no shade in that field there so we're hoping to get something that would create a nice shade canopy that you know would really um you know shade out that entire lawn which would be beautiful if you know okay if they can get it and then they have they have a few other suggestions to but that's the one location right now okay okay that's all I have is anybody else have anything yeah I I have something Jay i' I've really been having a lot of problems with scheduling work uh things have been coming in in drips and drabs uh I had planned enough days last month to cover everything that I had and then started scheduling other work after that uh and then all of a sudden I received four or five things that were over a month old uh so I had to drop some of the stuff that I wanted to do like he wanted some work done to park and we were going to remove this pair here but I had to go do the other work because it was five weeks behind schedule uh so what I've come up with is if the list that I get at the first of the month that gives me two or three weeks to figure out how many days I need to do that work uh but any work that comes in after that unless of course if it's an emergency or something like that but a tree limb that's hitting somebody's roof didn't just jump out that way within a week or two it's you know it's a year or two old is been doing that uh that that I'll go ahead and schedule if I know the 1st of September this is the work that I got to do the middle of September I can schedule two three whatever days I need to be able to do that work uh but I I and then so I've talked with Connie and Connie's come up with a spreadsheet that we can use that she can give me the first or the last we figured the last Thursday of the month she can give me that sheet that way I can run around spend an hour or two and figure out how much time I need to do that work so what I need from the commission is when you go out to look at a job make sure you reiterate to people that this is not going to happen I mean because some of the things I've received three days later to people are calling why haven't you gotten to it yet well it's you knowm just don't happen that quick and a couple of the jobs I mean like the one that we just finished up on uh 800 Washington Street to try to get in there in the middle of the summer or something that wasn't really actually hitting the guy's roof wasn't even close to the guy's roof it was way over his roof I mean that's something that I would rather wait till fall or winter to do when less traffic on when traffic's not bad you know cuz you're looking at 85 ft of equipment that's got to be put somewhere while we're doing the job you know so picking up picking up debris from from a tree Frank was this there was a thing here recently about you who was going to pick up uh branches and whatnot that were left on the on the street were pushed onto the sidewalk who is going to Puck them up I don't want Ron to have to hire to do that I think this is something the city Pian there's actually an ordinance in this city that we don't pick up ranches it's a home owner's responsibility not not on for a city tree uh City tree is different but I can see if it's a private tree it's his responsibility to put them and get them out to public works but they shouldn't be trimming they shouldn't be trimming a city tree anyway right so if they take the we shouldn't pick up something that they trim because they shouldn't have been trimming it in the first place so no we wouldn't pick up tree trimmings even if it's from a city tree Because unless they want to get a violation for trimming a tree inappropriately and I think during storms you guys have always went around picked up stuff anyway stor storms yeah storm you talking Jay you're talking about limbs that have come down in storms and maybe possibly hit by Vehicles is that what you're talking about or cuz that that would this was a tree limb that fell off this was a tree limb I think that fell off of a tree on washing in a storm on Washington Street it was IND the street so somebody pushed it up onto the curb and it sat there so yeah I mean City respons we know better we'll grab it you know we're out all day long too we're you know I think that's where the confusion in this conversation came it's not so much about somebody who went and just trimmed the tree and dropped the branches into the street um you know wind blown storm damaged tree limbs uh a vehicle comes by and hits a tree limb and knocks it off the tree we jump right on it right right okay you know I mean we don't know about if we don't know about it we don't know about it City doesn't Jay one more item on new business yeah new business all right I've got a couple other items all right um one is about Madison Avenue and Maryland the three Street trees they're I think they're little um cherry trees on and Cherry and I think Jim you brought it up where you thought they should be removed I didn't say now because I was going to bring this up I I you know obviously I wasn't here last month so um are we talking about the corner of Madison and and Maryland right and I thought it was two trees or there three there are three there's three cherry trees yeah so we were all supposed to take a look at them and then come to some some type of a decision um whether or not they should remain uh and I see them as maybe some damage did occur in in improper pruning but um they seem to be flourishing I can't see any reason to remove those trees well you know the I think they've been there about 3 years and the first two years flowered this year they didn't flower because when they prune them they just like Lop the tops right off uh so they're relatively young trees and I don't think they should be removed I think they'll probably I think they very healthy they're not attract they're not but they but they are doing well so I right they look it was improper pruning granted but you know we're past that point that's already so we have to look at what we have in hand now and uh I would definitely recommend to keep the trees there because they seem to be doing very well good good all right my other point is on the approved list of trees to be removed there's 1162 Virginia Avenue and that's approved to be trimmed not to be removed so if you look at that on the uh the monthly activity report 1152 Virginia 1162 Virginia is not to be removed it's just to be trimmed oh oh I removal so 1162 Virginia that should be moved up to uh trimming right should be trimmed thank you and then under new business I have two trees on Virginia Avenue I got a request for 1222 Virginia Avenue it's quite a large tree and it looks like it's lost a lot of its leaves and it looks kind of bar looking and I don't really know whether it should be taken down or not so maybe Ron you could take a look at that okay and there's also another Tree on Virginia Avenue while I was looking at that one what was that address again 1222 Virginia Virginia okay right and in the 1100 block I believe it's at 1122 there's another tree that looks kind of sad um and I don't know whether it's dying or maybe should I put down sad tree yeah very sad maybe very sad if you could look at that too it it's not attractive looking but I don't know if it's got a chance of surviving or not okay thank you yeah I'm not giving it back to you just yeah all right does anybody have anything else for the good of the order I have something if I may I'll entertain a motion has something um one of the things I asked the city manager today was to ask his officials to look around for trees in areas of construction and development that are not being barricaded around that's good one of the locations I I've noticed I think is there's some trees around it I could be wrong if they're impacted but is on Alm Street and then somebody here whose district is skuller Avenue or skuller the the the alley between Washington and uh and uh Lafayette there's some construction going on there and I don't know if those trees are Street trees or private trees but they're right on the street so Jay and myself you know that's my district has visited the property with me also um and there's a huge addition going on in the back of the house they recently put in for a one of four trees that's in a group they are on private property they're not City trees they wanted one of them removed remember J they came through with some equipment they did some damage to the root system they also did some damage to the trunk um we've yet to hear back from them we made the suggestion to them to get a licensed arborist to do some type of a uh report and and you know we'll read their recommendation um have yet to hear from them so right now all four trees are standing there is no construction activity coming through that area of the yard uh eventually they're just looking to do pavers through there and that's the reason why there was activity there at the time they took up an old concrete sidewalk that ran through there and they want to put in Pavers right that's the Swain property right that's no no that's all done Swain's property down the road on Lafayette right right yeah that was all done this was the one where you visited with me going back and we allowed them to take trees down in the back of the property right then time went on and with the construction activity even though it's in no proximity to where this tree got damaged they came in there um with their landscape or supposedly they had no knowledge of the um activity and when they learned about it they saw there was damage to the tree and they were asking for the tree to be removed that's that group of four trees um so that property the address is actually a Lafayette Street property right um the trees we looked at were all the way to the back end of the property this is all the way near the street near the front would that be um so so far that that request has been denied uh we did give them an option to you know come in with some type of an official report from an arist and we've yet to hear back from them okay well we'll wait for that shoe to drop yep and if not I I think that the tree I don't the amount of damage uh that was done was minimal right I don't see any you know real reason to have to remove the tree at this point we'll keep an eye on it if there's substantial buback of um you know we're seeing some type of a problem with the tree then we'll revisit it but right now I don't I don't think the damage was all that extensive anything so Jim why didn't they do the barrier thing that we have because the construction activity there wasn't supposed to be any construction activity up in that area it's a very large property yeah I know where all the construction activity is in the back of them yeah um this was just sort of related unrelated so it's it has nothing to do with the addition and everything on the proposal that went through this was just because there was a walkway that went through these four trees that they want to redo with brand new papers and instead of coming in in an area like that and actually spending the time and doing it the proper way by hand with maybe some small jackhammer sledgehammers uh picks and shovels whatever it takes no they came in there with equipment uh probably a small Bobcat type you know and also I have a question did damage this ordinance came in in the last three or four months and on that like that project cuz I took the trees out for the for the beginning of that project that was long before the new ordinance came in so are they grandfathers I don't know when they when they that project started yeah I've I've asked I I've asked um code enforcement zoning office and Construction office to just remind them hey that ordinance is in effect now any new project moving forward just to be on the lookout and I ask the clerk to make sure that all three of those offices have copies of the current ordinance and even if construction can start maybe passing them out to contractors so that they're aware of those new requirements so will start being more proactive on the new projects that are being awarded so yeah a project that's started before that before that aren't exempt they are exempt correct the code guys George and I've dealt with them a couple times on the construction barriers and they're very responsive yes and they're getting ready to you know they'll be ramping that up as these new projects get underway I just want to bring up with something that matters a lot to me is the fact that if they destroy a tree they you know whether they do it knowingly or unknowingly they're they're in violation you know and I think when I say knowingly we all know the old drill a hole in the base and put some Drano in there I mean if you're going to destroy your tree whether you on purpose or not I think there should be some kind of fine in place $27 an inch right $27 so if if they if you were to say yes you can replace this tree forceable in Municipal Court if we were going to say yes we can replace this tree because you destroyed it it's not going to be a flat fee I mean what what do you think that's my question I mean it's not going to be a $75 removal fee no it's $27 an inch so I I appreciate radius all right so I appreciate what what you're doing is saying you think it's fine it stays you know I think that's that's the position we should have and again I don't I don't vote but you know I don't want people saying well I didn't know I destroyed a tree of by accident could me look at a heavily damaged tree that didn't come down they didn't knock it down yet they didn't cut it down but it's going to have to be removed because of the damage that occurred do we then look at that the same as somebody just coming in and blatantly cutting down a tree without permission and then therefore that same penalty would apply to removing the tree that's my question yeah uh yes can we enforce something like that that's a good question question yeah yeah mhm that that works we've I've been to court twice on over the years on that uh destruction of a of a tree uh and that $27 an inch held up and plus a $100 ordinance violation plus $33 court cost you know all added on to the thing so it works I'm glad we've talked about it thank you all right oh so my point was if you see anything around town let me know let anybody know we want to protect these trees in construction okay can I just uh one more question address to Paul Paul so now uh with Ron's point and he made a very good point so this property going back to on Lafayette where um the original plan and everything was prior to the ordinance for the tpz being in place right the Tre protection Zone um so grandfather didn't at this point all we can do is just ask them if they would comply but we really can't force the issue that's it if it's an existing project that was in the pipes before the got their permits before the ordinance we can't force them to do that would just be an appeal and hopefully they would yeah if you want to stop by and say hey we got this can you please comply it's a request not we can't require them got it understood once again I'll entertain a motion to adjourn I'll I'll move it I'll second it I'll second George's all those in favor thank you very much thank you thank you no no no for good I'm leaving all my stuff here I have to go to the I have my property taxes right what we check off number one I don't know I screwed it up by this time but do we fill this out we fill it out give it to to Connie and then she's