WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=vzOtOnQK2U4

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: vzOtOnQK2U4):
- 00:13:07: Meeting Commences: Pledge, Silence, Roll Call, Minutes Approval
- 00:15:32: Tree Ordinance Amendments: Preventing Excessive Pruning, Protection
- 00:21:16: Tree Ordinance Endorsement Vote & Presentation: Patterson Street Drainage
- 00:29:38: Patterson Street Drainage Continued: Landscaping and Tree Discussion
- 00:35:49: Patterson Drainage Approval with Planting Plan, Tree Bank
- 00:37:56: Gorgon: Japanese Black Pine Removal Request Due to Damage
- 00:49:36: Gorgon Damage Photos, Commission Postpones Decision Until Next Month
- 00:55:05: Vermont Ave Pine Removal: Storm Damage Approval, Refunded Fee
- 00:57:28: Maryland Ave Tree Removal Denied: Invasive Growth, Reassessment
- 00:59:10: Lafayette Street Tree Removal: Construction Compromise Landscape Plan
- 01:01:36: Washington Street Tree Removal: Building Demolition, Landscaping Needed
- 01:03:42: Jefferson Street Silver Maple: Application Denied, More Information
- 01:05:03: Maryland Ave Street Tree Removal: Replanting Discussion and Approved
- 01:08:21: Old/New Business: Tree Trimming Near Powerlines, Open House
- 01:11:52: Informing Homebuyers About Tree Ordinances, Grants, Lanternflies
- 01:16:31: Arbor Day Article and Adjournment of this Long Meeting


Part: 1

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I'd like to call this meeting to order. In compliance with the Open Public Meeting Act of 1975, adequate notice of this meeting has been provided. If any member has reason to believe that this meeting is being held in violation of this act, they should state so at this time.

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Anyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

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>> If you just take a moment to stay standing and uh have a moment of silence in memory of Jhatz, our former chairman. Thank you. Okay, first order of business. Um, we'll do

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roll call, please. >> George A. >> Here. >> Tracy, >> here. >> Carol Sik >> here. >> George Warner >> here. >> Uh, Carol York is excused today. Kathy >> here.

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>> Okay. I'm trust everyone had time to look over the minutes from last month's meeting. Are there any corrections? >> If not, I'll entertain a motion to have those minutes pass. >> Okay. >> Motion to pass the minutes.

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>> Roll call vote, please. >> George A. >> We need a second for that motion, though. >> Carl, second the motion. >> I wasn't here for that meeting. >> Oh, okay. >> I wasn't here for that meeting. >> You can you >> I wasn't here. I guess I can second it because I guess you can second.

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>> I'm always here. >> Sorry. >> Okay. Roll call, please. >> George A. >> Yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Carol Sick, >> yes. >> George W. >> I wasn't here. >> Uh Kathy, >> yes. I >> I'm sorry. I wasn't here.

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>> People that are absent. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. >> All right. We have some guests and members in the audience. Um Attorney Gillan Schwarz, could you Yeah. See, he's ahead of the game. >> Might want to lower that before you

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scoot in. >> Guess maybe somebody didn't want me here tonight. Um, >> good, uh, good evening, members of the board. Chris Gillan Schwarz, uh, city solicitor. I'm here to present to you some uh another round of proposed

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changes and modifications to the city's tree ordinance protection tree protection provisions. This came after some discussion of some ongoing issues that the city's been dealing with enforcement wise and discussion with the sub shade tree commission subcommittee

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and really just not wanting to put code enforcement of the in the position of having to get creative. We don't like that from the city's standpoint. We want clear rules for code enforcement to follow and for residents to understand and see in the code book and be able to

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know what it is that the city is and isn't for or against. Um, and I think consistent with that, wanted to come up with something to uh root out, no pun intended, the practice of potentially getting turned down for a

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tree or not knowing that, you know, you need to get a permit to cut things down and engaging in excessive pruning. And it may not be clear uh to the homeowner that that's going to substantially damage the tree or end up killing it,

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but that is the case based on, you know, um professional kind of standards that are out there for pruning and and proper practices. So we wanted to come up with something that was had an arbitrary measure and the uh the ANIE standard

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ANIE standards are a uh widely recognized tree pruning practice that's out there and that's referenced in here. So just just to give you an outline of what this does is every everybody in town uh public

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spaces or private property and that can be come as a bit of a shock to people that are not familiar with the town but yes we regulate private trees on private property and trees have their own definition. it's after a certain diameter

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um are regulated in town. And what this does is adds another layer to that just to prevent topping, excessive cutting. it just ends up you drive by and you see it and like that's a dead tree now, you know, and or there may be closer call

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cases, but this will provide some regulations around that to prevent um circumventing the tree regulations of saying, "Oh, I I know I can't kill this tree, but here we go with all this pruning." So, I know that that's a concern of the Shade Tree Commission,

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and this will set up two things. Unlawful pruning or cutting of a regulated tree. So that's its own string of conduct. It's got examples of that. It's also tied to the ANIE standards. Um so that any homeowner or contractor or

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any code enforcement officer can go and look through and see what those objective criteria are and what they're and they're it's we try to reference that in here so you don't have to go around guessing. You can see what's regulated and what's not. And then in addition, evasion of the tree removal

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permitting requirement. So anybody that has been denied within 12 months, there'll be a rebuttable presump presumption that you're evading, you know, you've been denied and now you're engaging in these unlawful practices. So that's its own separate violation. And that's really more of a deterrent than

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anything just to highlight, look, we don't want anybody getting cute with these regulations. When we say we want to protect trees, we want to protect trees. Some towns don't. Kate May does. These are the rules. So that's that's the policy behind it. Um and it would uh

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incorporate the same list of violations that are already in the section. So we have to come up with a new list. There's already a list in there that's the you know multiplication of pi times the diameter and you know stop work orders and there's a whole menu of um remedies

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that are are existing in the in the code that we don't have to relist. We just reference them in this new section. So, um, with that, I I wanted to give more of a kind of a aerial view of this ordinance. I wasn't just going to sit here and read it. Um, and I wanted to be

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here and and George had asked me to be here to solicit any questions that you may have. And ultimately the process for this would be if this looks like something that the Shade Tree Commission um would be in favor of, you could do a vote tonight uh to endorse this and then

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Councilman Meyer and I can present it for all of council to potentially adopt through the ordinance process at the city council level. >> Okay. >> This is something we've talked about a number of times, how the u topping of trees is is basically killing trees most

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of the time. And uh we've had some instances where they've done it to great excess um that there's no way those trees are going to come back. And also the overp pruning of trees um it just mutilates them. They don't even look like trees and they eventually it opens them up to diseases and things like

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that. So I I'm I appreciate all the work you put into this because it's really something that I think is going to benefit preservation of our trees. >> What we're asking the board to um approve today is a resolution. You'll find it in your packet. Uh

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I think it'll be 20 26 number one. Um uh this resolution uh is uh indicating your support of this u potential legislation amendment to the tree protection act. I encourage you to vote for it.

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>> Anyone have any questions for anyone? If not, then I'll entertain a motion to have discussed. >> I'd like to make a motion, Mr. Chairman, to approve the uh shade tree resolution number 20261.

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>> I'll second. >> Roll call, please. >> George A. >> Yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Carol Sick, >> yes. >> George W. >> Yes. >> Kathy, >> yes. >> Okay. Thank you very much for your time.

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Appreciate all your work. Thank you. >> Council Meer, do you want me to reach out to the clerk on this? >> Yes. Okay. >> You got a second? >> Sure. >> Thank you, Chris. >> So, is this something on the website? >> Well, I think we're going to have to incorporate it onto the website, too. We'll have to put this on the Shade Tree

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Commission website once this passes, but we can't do that until until council passes it. Yeah. >> Okay. >> That's a good point. >> And luckily, we had a resident who did uh not know. they are new to this town and um I go received a phone call yesterday and uh she said I didn't realize that there were these regulations in place until I checked

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your website so I'm glad I checked it. I said I'm glad you did too. So anyway, the first um we're going to move down to guests and members of the audience. Um since you're on the agenda anyway uh for 21 Patterson Street, why don't you come up and make your presentation? Would you

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can pull that other chair over. Um do you want another We have another microphone. >> Okay, thank you. >> Good. >> Great. Thank you. >> If you would just introduce yourselves and tell us why you're here. >> Sure. Um Amy Walker. So I'm the owner at

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21 um Patterson Avenue. My name is Brian Murphy. I'm a uh licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey and I did the um stormwater runoff control plant associated with Mrs. Walker's property

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and is the reason why we're here this evening. >> Okay. So, tell us a little bit about your situation if you will. >> Sure. Yeah. Sure. So, so I bought the property in um end of November of 21. um

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no issues with um water or drainage. Um unfortunately though, at the middle to end of December of 23 began to experience um flooding in the backyard um when there was significant um rainfall. >> Now, when you described flooding, is it

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just a little bit of water? How deep is the water when >> it's pretty deep? I had submitted some pictures. I don't know how they were >> to see. It might be easier to see them. >> Yeah. >> And like does it like I know I'm on Windsor Avenue and I get water all the

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time when after a rain >> and usually dissipates within 24 to 48 hours. >> Uh I would say >> it doesn't come to this extent. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> I mean I've had ducks floating unfortunately in the backyard. >> I know our friend in West but not in my but not in my backyard.

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>> Had a flock of malards there for a little while. build a dam. >> Does uh the Cape Island Creek run through your property? >> I guess underneath. >> Yeah, my art. >> Okay. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, underneath >> that. >> And along those lines, it used to be

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tidal flooding. I'm sure you probably recall that. >> And they've done some significant storm water runoff control. So, >> the water that >> So, how long does it typically lay there? >> A week. >> Oh, really? Okay. >> Sometimes more. I mean a week and then it's after that it's weeks that it's

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soggy like it really has since >> and I'm sure in the summertime it's more of an issue with mosquitoes and such. >> Yes, very much so. >> So your proposal then is just maybe you sir are able to explain a little bit your proposal. >> Could you use the microphone please? >> I'm sorry.

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>> It's okay. >> Sure. This is her uh house, Miss Miss Patterson's house. And what we proposed is just a um 50 feet of pipe and a trench. Um and if you look at the graves on the property, it's as flat as a

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pancake. 59 58 57 58 57. And the ground is is as flat as it can be. What we're proposing to do is to put a pipe tie into the um the old Cape Island Creek. There's a a um a

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city-owned uh pipe that runs behind her property, right? We have spoken to Paul, Mr. Dietrich, the township administrator, and he said we would be allowed uh to do that. And what we want to do is to regrade the property so it slopes away from our house to the

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pipeline. And we have a series of inlets to minimize the slope. Um but that would capture the water and take it to the the uh uh city system which would then convey it away offsite. >> Okay. So how many I don't have the

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details of the application in front of me. I just have the the thing. So there'll be a number of trees removed. Can you tell us what those species of trees are? >> The species? >> Yeah, sure. Um, so it's a river birch, a weeping willow,

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a malberry, a bald cyprus, >> a silver maple. >> Oh, here's the >> Yeah, >> there's three There's three eastern red cedars,

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a crepe myrtle, a Bradford pair. >> See, I see them now. Yes. >> Do you Okay, >> I I have the list now. So my question is >> is there a way that you could put that drain some on the other side of the property? The reason I'm asking is because when I

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took a look at the property, it seems that there's a larger concentration of trees on the side where it's proposed, especially the bald cyprus, which is a beautiful specimen. I hate to see that tree go down. I is, you know, if there's a way that that can be either rerouted

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or relocated to possibly preserve because and the other thing I was gonna say is bald cypus are really good for absorbing, you know, water, too. I mean, >> obviously if you get a drain, >> you know, you won't have as much water, but it's um

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>> I mean, some of these trees are, you know, I'd say, well, okay, but >> I'd really hate to see that one go if there's a way to preserve it. Are you getting any runoff from the uh parking next to >> the park >> on the You've got the town houses.

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>> Nothing. >> Nothing is running. I was wondering heard that. >> No, I mean there it's like three feet and then there's their parking lot. Correct. >> Correct. There's a retaining wall that retaining >> responsible for the flooding that you have because they've built

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>> I actually don't I actually don't think it's them. You don't? I mean, because that's been that was there long before. >> Yeah, those town houses have been there. >> They've been there. Um nearly 20 years. >> Flooding just started >> in end of December of 201. >> What do you think caused the flooding?

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The recent flooding. >> Well, there has been substantial construction done on the neighboring street. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's been some regrading >> changed the topography of the of the land. >> Yeah. >> You know, I understand and I see from the photos, you know, your issue. I just uh

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>> I think the I want to say we did talk about the other side. I do think there's a even getting to the property and I'll tell you after experiencing what I'm experiencing now, the last thing I want to do is have the water going towards my neighborh

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>> um which is what we would need to do to put the drain on the to put the piping on the other side of the property. >> Yeah. Just to qualify there there's two aspects to it. One is the installation of the pipe and the other one is to tilt the ground a little bit. So the water runs through the pipe. So what we tried to do was to go away from our neighbors,

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away from our house to the pipe and then the pipe to the drainage system. >> Mhm. >> If you go the other way, it can be done. But it's just then if the water's going to sit there, then it's going to be sitting on her neighbor's property and closer to her property.

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>> That's why we chose that as well. >> Well, let me ask you this then. When this system is installed, is there What are the plans for replacing some of these trees? >> Yeah, so I did work with um >> because I don't I >> Cape Atlantic. Yeah, I did submit to um

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>> drawings. >> I haven't seen that. >> George Flip. >> You want to see this? >> Um that's the copy I just sent. I think it's >> I don't think Was it on there? I didn't. >> So there's um >> this is what this is what's going to be removed.

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>> No, no, no. So what this is what would be planted. >> So these >> but you do have some existing trees that are going to remain. >> So what is here like this is exist. Sorry I should have could hide it like this is existing. This is existing. This

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is existing. These are existing. >> So the like what we're removing is what runs here >> and this is a recommendation for what would be placed. >> Okay. And then the I know the the guidelines

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say two trees >> per tree removal. I mean I had them do two plans. One with replacing 12 trees and then one with replacing 24. I mean 24 is a lot of trees. I mean it

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essentially turns which I mean it turns my backyard into >> Yeah. >> Like >> there there is an alternative you can make a contribution in l of replacing a tree into the tree bank. My my I would caution you with using holly trees only because

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>> and I love holly trees, especially American holly, but just so you know that the the leaves take a long time to disintegrate and if you walk barefoot, everybody ends up complaining about them. Yeah. So, I mean, I see that on there, but I still >> and I'm open to and he was trying to I

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mean, he was very familiar with like trying to get if anybody else wants to see >> native trees. I mean, >> yeah. on um you know types of um types of trees. >> Honestly, I'd like to see a bald cypress

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in part of the planting plan if possible. >> Okay. >> I mean, that's one of my suggestions because >> I think the river birch I think you mentioned removing >> they're fast growing >> and they're good in the wet areas. So, >> but hopefully it won't be wet anymore.

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>> Well, any water will do. >> I love the water. Anybody have any questions or want discuss anything more? >> Miss, if you um you had mentioned that you were not aware of the the option that you had to

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uh make a contribution to tree bank and replacing trees, how might that change your your plan that you discussed with George? >> Well, I will share. So, I do have the one concern I have is um and I don't know if you like the letter that um I mean obviously I've

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learned a lot through this process. This is all this is all new to me. Um but the letter that Andrew, who's the individual who's partnered with um Brian to do the work, >> um >> he calls out like part of the reason why

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those trees need to be removed is because right roots will work their way towards >> getting to the point >> um like they'll work their way towards um >> the water >> the water. Thank you. So, I do have

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concern with like putting a tree right back next to the drainage system because I don't want to right a couple years down the road have my whatever $30,000 that I spent on this to >> to not be. So,

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>> yeah. I mean, maybe I do different, you know, put them on the other side. Um, but yeah, I mean, how does that I mean, I'm happy to make it whatever the what is that? Well, no. I was just I was just wondering how might that change your >> landscape >> conceptual understanding of what you wanted to do on the site.

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>> So, it pos it potentially would. I didn't realize I had an option. >> Well, you have an option. >> Um I thought the option was I had to plant 24 trees. I was hoping to talk you into only letting me do 12. Um so, if there's another option, I would definitely consider that and then work with the >> Well, I think what we're going to have

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to do is we can see once those trees are removed just how much land you're going to have to plant those trees. So, if you if you can maybe you'll only have room for eight trees and then you'll have to contribute the extra trees. You make that donation to the tree bank in that in that form. >> Okay. >> But um and if you want any input on

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species of trees, there was um um there's a few, you know, American native trees that would be nice. They're good for pollinators like Buckeye and um >> Okay. >> Red Buckeye is kind of small. There's actually one blooming in front of the post office right now. It's beautiful. It's a small tree. Yeah. And um and then

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the fringe tree is also a native species. The service berry is fine, but I did notice a couple Japanese and that's fine. We allow those to be planted too. The Japanese snowbell, they do well, but um but if you can find a a way to put on their bald cypress back

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there, be great. Talk to them about that. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, what's your recommendation? approve the removal of the trees and then have them come back to >> have them come back to us to see what they're what they're how many trees they're going to be able to plant and uh

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>> and then that then the donation to the tree bank will you know we'll weigh it out according to how many trees are planted on the property. >> Okay. >> So can somebody put that in the form of a motion? >> It's a tough tricky motion. Uh I'd like to move that we

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conditionally approve uh the proposal is submitted to us uh upon submission of a a landscaping uh plan that incorporates a number of trees that may not conform to the 2:1 uh rag but would include a

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contribution to the tree bank. >> I'll second that. >> Okay. Roll call, please. Lauren >> George A. >> Yes. Tracy, >> yes. >> Carol Sick, >> yes. >> George W. >> Yes. >> Kathy, >> yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Welcome.

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>> And we look forward for you to come back and >> clarification. When could the contractor start work? Only because as the summer gets closer, more and more difficult to do the work. >> I know. So, now that it's approved, I'm assuming as long as you have all your

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other permits in place, you'd be able to start whenever, you know. So, I'm approved to remove the trees, those trees that put the drainage in and get >> and then you have to come back to us and tell us what you're >> So, you want to approve before I start planting anything new? >> If you Yes.

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>> Yeah, absolutely. That's the motion. >> Okay. Okay. I just wanted to make sure. >> And um Yeah. And can you just How does the donation how does the bank >> treat how does that >> So, it goes by the caliber of the tree. Okay. >> Um and >> the vice chairman has the calculation

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thing. >> It goes by tree size. Okay. >> So, we'll have to sit down with you >> u perhaps prior to >> prior to removal of trees when they're removed. >> We'll take measurements of them and then we can discuss which ones uh >> how much each

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>> when what what do you want to replace and uh >> and then >> uh what the uh contribution would be to the tree bank. >> Okay. So, you have to do the measurement before I remove the trees. >> Yeah. Because we can't measure once. >> Okay. That's why I figure I just want >> What's your time table along? Well, I was just going to say that we reach who do we reach out to because we're going

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to reach out to the contractor on a schedule. >> Well, you'll have to reach out to the contractor, but I guess you'd have to reach out to construction. Isn't that construction that takes care of the drainage plans? >> Justin, you might know that answer. >> You can actually Paul, you can reach out to Paul as city engineer. >> Tell them that.

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>> Yep. >> They have all the approvals in place to to start. >> Yes. Okay. >> Y >> and he'll measure the trees. >> He won't measure. >> He's not going to measure the trees. Shade tree will measure the trees. I >> was going to say Mr. chairman. He will get in touch with Mr. uh Warner >> uh or chairman of tour. One one of one

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of the other will be very good for you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for coming. >> Thank you for coming. Appreciate it. >> Good luck with your project. >> Thank you. >> Sure. >> Okay. Next, we have some guests in the audience here. >> Actually, they were supposed to be on the agenda tonight, but for some reason

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>> Yeah, >> that's all right. >> They weren't. But that's okay. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. Um I'm Bob Gorgon. I live at 1100 Missouri Avenue here in Cape May. Um

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actually uh I have six um Japanese black pine trees in my backyard and I sustained um damage from the February snowstorm uh on four trees. two of them. The damage

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was is very significant and very obvious. And one tree, a whole side of the tree is down from uh a branches are hanging there from from top to to bottom. Uh the other tree, the top of the tree and in the middle of it, uh

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there are down branches in that tree. Uh the other two trees, minor damage. They were low enough that I could cut off the uh the branches that that broke. Um, but a little bit of background. I purchased my home in 1996 and it had the six

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mature uh Japanese black pine trees. A previous owner had indicated that they were there when he bought the house in ' 86. I'm guessing the the trees are at least 50 years old as is my guess. So they're they're they were mature when I uh bought the house. Located in the back

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yard, three on each side. On the east side, they're approximately 10 to 12 feet apart. And on the west side of my property, uh they're roughly 20 feet apart, three on each side. So it's uh symmetrical as far as the the uh uh

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planting was concerned. Um I've maintained the trees over the years. I' I've had them pruned. The last time they were pruned was five years ago because they do encroach on my house on my roof and they were causing problems with the gutters at the time. Um these trees are

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in the backyard. They are not visible to the street. They're not part of the line of sight on the street. Uh so it's just my backyard. Uh like I say, I've maintained and pruned them over the years. The cost, by the way, the last time I had them pruned was about $1,000.

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Uh prior to that, they were pruned in in 2012. Um in order to to top the trees, a bucket is required or high reach or something like that, but unfortunately they're not accessible. Uh, two of the trees on the west side are accessible by

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the truck uh, backing into the neighbor's driveway. On the other side, the way they have a chainlink fence, uh, a truck can't back there and they were not able to to um, uh, get to the top of the trees. The last time I had them pruned,

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uh, like I say, the storm damaged four to six of the trees in February, uh, the two of them was extensive. uh in in order I've already talked to a tree surgeon and uh in order to get to the tree where the middle top section is uh

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he can't get to it by a bucket. So he and he can't put a ladder up against it the way the branches uh stick way out uh the existing branches. So he has would have to basically cut the face of the tree off in order to to get the uh hanging branches off. Um, and this would

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leave the trees, in my opinion, significantly off balance and large areas without foli foliage. Um, like I say, the other two trees, the damage was low and I was able to take care of take care of that, but but there's issues

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with uh those trees also. Um, I did submit an application on March 17th. Um, I know the initial site visit was visit was done on April 16th. Um I I was asked a question uh why now I'm to to remove

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the six trees and uh a couple of things. One, first of all, this is something my wife and I have been talking about uh for several years. And I'll I'll get into the reason why shortly. Um the the uh two of the trees especially the the

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degree of damage is very off obvious. The trees do grow rapidly. In fact, I was looking at it. The growth so far this year is about 12 inches. So, I got about 2 feet a year of growth on these particular uh particular trees. Um

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the uh two of the trees o overhang my neighbor's uh garage and there's actually been significant damage done to his uh the roof of his garage uh between moss growing, pine needles still on there uh and what have you. And that's

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actually one of the big problems. Um cleaning of these these trees after any kind of windstorm is uh well more than a nuisance. Um usually in the fall and again in the spring just regular normal

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cleanup. Uh we end up having 12 bags of just pine needles that we dispose of. If there's any heavy winds or anything like that, we also have to do a cleanup. And again, it's an on average of about 12 um uh bags of of pine needles that we have

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to dispose of. Um another thing is uh you know doing that clean up. I'm not any younger than I used to be and um I and and I like to en I do like to enjoy my backyard and have a clean. I I I had it re the whole yard rellandscaped I

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think around 2005 2006 time frame including the backyard where I had to regrade it uh for for drainage uh because it was it was so flat and I had gardens put around uh the back of the yard. Uh those gardens don't ex really

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don't exist anymore. the bushes had to come out because they died. Not because of these trees, but because of the trees in in the house be behind us. Uh and the fact that there's lack of sun in in that particular area. Um I've also grown uh

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had a vegetable garden. I made it a raised bed garden lasted about uh three years and then the roots and I call them like hair roots uh uh infiltrated that particular garden. And I I can't really grow anything. I've planted um uh twice

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now. I've done uh like butterfly and uh type plantings in the in the backyard. I've had to do it twice now because again they they I can't sustain them. Um a little bit of uh backup uh background

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on on some of this. the um uh oh another thing and the interior of these trees the way that they have grown uh now have nothing on them. As a matter of fact, there's a lot of dead branches on the inside of the tree. Uh one of the trees I need I really need to cut it

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back from my house. It's overhanging my my roof. And you know the amount I cut it back is because there's very little of the pine pine needle area left. maybe about three, four feet and I should cut them back about a good four to five feet in order to keep them away from the

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house so I'm not doing them every six months or something like that. But the interior uh branches are dead. Um I did a little bit of research and um it turns out uh there are some areas where these trees are considered invasive. Uh part

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of it was habitat displacement uh because they grow faster than than uh native coastal trees. By the way, these trees started were brought into this country uh in the early 1940s from Japan and Korea and were used as barriers

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around military bases. So it would act as a camouflage and that's u how they came in into this country. Uh another uh problem with the trees, it alters the ecosystem uh by creating windbreaks. Uh pest vulnerability they

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have whatever a pinewood nema toad is. But um I I actually looked it up and I think I've I've seen a couple of them on the screen on my back porch recently. Um they're highly adaptable and they are very tolerant trees. They do have the

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rapid growth. They disturb uh the management uh of the areas around them. Um and they do disa displace uh native bio displacement of native biodiversity. Uh Massachusetts and Delaware have banned them for the above reasons.

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Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard have undertaken a costly effort to remove the trees and parts of New York have done the same thing and the the Long Island area. Uh, and they these trees are prominent in the areas of North Carolina to Massachusetts.

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Um, I'm not going to go into the appearance and things like that, but I am request requesting permission to remove all six trees so I can restore my landscaping and plantings. Um, the area under the trees, the grass that I had

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planted there is gone. I I every year I do plant grass seed and it doesn't take I do water it regularly and I do know what I'm doing. I'm actually um head of the the volunteers that uh do the groundskeeping at the physic estate and

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during my high school years I did groundskeeping at apartment complex and construction sites. So I I do have some experience in this. Um I'm I'm asking for for relief uh due to hard hardship

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and the tree appearance and I'm also requesting a waiver for uh the replacement requirement and it's due to the excessive numbers of trees and the cost associated with both maintenance. I mean, if I were to replace the trees, I I really couldn't do it in my backyard

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because I'd be making a bad situation worse given the number of trees and um uh just a large number. I I believe in my neighborhood um I probably have the largest number of trees in the I'm I'm generally in the vi village green area.

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I'm not quite there by one block, but uh in the village green area. So, it's a a large number and I think it would end up being a very significant contribution that I'd have to make uh for myself, probably larger than most people uh have to experience. Um,

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and I have spent a lot of money uh to try to manage these over the years. Um, I think I take pride in my yard. Uh, George, you made a comment when you came by about my backyard and my my uh my front yard. My backyard lawn used to look like my front lawn, but it it

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doesn't anymore again because of the areas that uh where the trees are. The roots are exposed. I have roots on one side that are actually heading towards and probably underneath a small patio I have there and also underneath a a

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relatively new porch. Um uh the roots are heading in that direction. They've also lifted up the ground and during rain I get I get puddles. I get uh it's standing water as as a result of it because of some uh depressions that

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exist there. So um I am asking for for a waiver on on that aspect of it. Um anyway uh I don't know if anyone has any questions. I do have pictures. Um >> yeah that would be great. Please >> tell you what the easiest thing I just

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printed a bunch of things out. I have them on my phone also. Well, both Vice Chairman Warner and I visited the property. I went yesterday. Uh Mr. Warner went the day prior, too. And um I did express that we um typically don't

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take trees down just because needles drop. I mean, deciduous trees, the leaves drop. Every tree makes some kind of debris. But I understand the situation. >> What kind of trees are >> they're pine, black pine, >> Japanese pine? So this is the tree that

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has the extensive uh damage and these are branches that are hanging down and they are dying now. So this whole side of the tree would have to come off. >> I was there just pass around. We'll take a peek. Yeah, >> this one is

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this one is the one where the top middle of the tree >> uh branches have gone down. This is just a side view. This is the west side of my yard and you can see them overhanging uh my neighbor's property. He just rake there and he he

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was lucky he only got five bags of pine needles. Um and this is the east side of my house and you can see it overhanging the roof of the roof of my house. That's a duplicate. See, this is just

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>> So, you don't want to plant any trees at all to replace? >> I have I have a another huge I don't know. You You said the name of the tree. I don't >> That's a cottonwood. >> What is it? >> Cottonwood. Eastern cottonwood. Yeah. >> Okay. I mean, it's it's like this. It It actually has a metal fence post going

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through the middle of the trunk. Um, this is a picture just looking up to try to I was trying to show how the interior uh really has nothing left on it. >> Well, that most evergreens grow like that. The interior does end up becoming bare throughout. Even if you get a

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Christmas tree from a tree farm, you'll see there's no green in the middle of it. It's only on the tips. >> And I can show it better on my phone, but this is my neighbor's root here, >> which is have some damage on the side of that.

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>> Unfortunately, Commissioner York is the one whose district this is and she's not here to put her give her opinion on it. But at this point, what I think we should do is um I don't know. Does anybody have any commentary on >> I I would like to make a suggestion, Mr.

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Chairman, that uh that this wasn't on the agenda. Um >> I know >> I don't think the commissioners have had an opportunity to fully review this. I would ask uh if I have to make a motion I will that uh we defer this until next month and we'll take that issue up then.

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>> That's fine. >> York is here too. >> What's that? >> When Carol York is here. >> Yeah, that's correct. >> Has she already been to see the trip or >> I think she was think but I'd rather I'd like to have Carol. >> Yeah, >> we can go along with the two I would say

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that are damaged. We at least know that those two are damaged but the rest of the situation we should wait for reassessment. This one. >> Yeah. >> So, if anybody else would like to go out and take a look, it would be great. >> I'll take >> I'll take a look. >> Okay. >> All right. So, I'll entertain a motion.

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Or did you make that in the form of a motion? Your comment? >> I will. I'll I'll The motion I'll make, Mr. Chairman, is that uh uh based on our assessment, there are two storm damage trees that can be removed in in the center. And I believe that would be on

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the west stage left side of your property. Mhm. >> Uh the other trees are to remain. Uh we'll >> as of now >> as of now. And we'll uh uh take this up. This will be an agenda item at our June meeting. >> Can I prune back the one that's uh

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that's in fact my neighbor was um he's actually cleaning out his yard right now and he has he asked if he could take down the branches overhanging his garage and I told him no, not not yet because I was I was coming here. garage.

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>> I don't know. Can he >> They're on his >> You if you have tree branches hanging over into your garden, you are allowed to remove them as long as you don't >> John White property. >> John White's property. >> John White's property. Yes. >> They're on your side. They're not on my side.

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>> John's not trimming them. >> No, his son is. >> So, yeah. I mean, if that's in the form of a motion >> approval to remove the two >> the two damaged trees with and there's no fee for that specific >> until next meeting. >> You want to alter your motion to

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>> approve the removal of the two damaged trees without the $75? >> I thought that was was that was that not part of the motion? >> That was part of the motion. Okay. >> All right. I'll second. >> Okay. Roll call. Lauren >> George A. >> Yes. >> Tracy,

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>> yes. Carol Sick, >> yes. >> George W. >> Yes. Kathy. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> All right. Well, thank you for your time. Thank you for coming and uh >> stop. >> And we'll >> No, I I I visited the property already,

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so I'm familiar. >> Just bring them with you next month in case somebody hasn't seen them. >> Yeah, >> that's true. >> I think it's only Carol. I think she probably visited. >> That's what I thought. Okay. >> But I don't She's out of town.

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Okay, thank you very much. We'll be we'll be back again. >> Repeat next month. Okay, let's move on to 1221 Vermont is the next tree uh that's on our list for removals. I visited this site today, actually met the homeowner. Um it's a pine tree, too.

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This one was actually snapped right in half. I mean, the entire top of the tree is gone. Um and it's really compromised. The gentleman has a beautiful garden and Oh, yes. have one quick question. Do I have to get a written up formal permit or something? >> Not for those two storm damage trees.

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You don't this time. Yes. Thank you. So, um, he actually had Maner's tree service go over and ask if there was a way that he could preserve the tree, but um, unfortunately the way that it broke, it's doesn't seem like it's even worth preserving. He's got a number of large trees in the backyard. Um, so I I

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believe we should give him permission to take it down. It's really it's a h less than half of a tree that's there and what's there is leaning. Um the only thing is when he put this application in, he did pay the $75 fee and he really shouldn't have to because that was the

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storm damage. So we're waving that. So we're going to have to I his money needs to be refunded because others that had storm damage we didn't get the same. >> We've done that in the past. >> Yeah, we have refunded before. So >> I don't know if anyone else want any

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questions on that. How how do you go about refunding it? Does it go back through finance and then on a bill lists? >> Yeah, we we'll uh we'll vote on it as a commission >> and Connie knows how. >> That's your Mrs. Andrew. >> That's your specialty. >> Yep. I I just wanted to make sure that

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that's what you want to do. We can >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> So, I'll entertain a motion that we allow him to take down that tree without the cost of and refund the cost of $75 >> to this gentleman. >> Second. >> I can't make you can't motion. You make

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>> I'd like to make a motion that u the the uh application 1221 Vermont Avenue um be approved and that additionally due to the storm damage his $75 permit fee that he paid be refunded.

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>> Roll call. >> George A. >> Yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Carol Sik, >> yes. >> George W. >> Yes. >> Kathy, >> yes. >> All right. Next is 1301 Maryland Avenue. Commissioner Warner, is this your

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district? I think it is. >> Uh 1001 Maryland. >> Vice Chairman. Yeah. No. >> 1301 Maryland. That's the trees on the side. There's a number of trees that they're covered all in holly. Got it. I mean ivy. Sorry. >> Yes. 1301 Maryland is a um corner

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property. Uh the trees in question are it's a a honey locust. I think two cedar and another tree has another call. >> Uh the applicant would like to take all the trees down. It was indicated in the application that the honeyloust was

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dead. If you drive by it, it's a fairly vibrant looking honey locust. >> They're late to leaf out. >> I would like to uh recommend that uh we deny removal of the trees. Um and um uh would ask it that >> well I I would recommend that those

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vines be removed so that we can >> yes >> we can reassess those trees once we can tell just what's alive and what's not underneath all that >> bramble and stuff. >> So would someone put that into the form of a motion? Uh, I'd like to move that the the property on

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>> 1301 >> 1301 Maryland Avenue, uh, consisting of four trees, uh, that the application for removal be denied. And additionally, the recommendation to remove the growth and the ivy that are covering those trees.

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>> Okay. >> Second. >> I'll second. >> Roll call. >> George A. >> Yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. Carol Sick. >> Yes. >> George W. >> Yes. >> Kathy. >> Yes. >> Okay. 659 Lafayette Street.

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>> Okay. >> That's your district. Yes. >> Um 659 is a small corner property on Lafayette and St. John. And there's going to be construction there. They're going to change a small house, make it

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bigger. And there are trees in the back of the house that are basically scrub trees. There is one larger one with roots protruding um above ground. I >> actually think they're pollonious. They haven't leafed out yet, but they're >> they're invasive.

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>> Yeah, they weren't they weren't leafed out. >> Yeah. >> But the construction is going to include a deck and a sidewalk and paver stones. I didn't know what they were, but the builder explained they were pavers. >> Um I think With all of that going on and

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footers for the deck, these trees are probably going to be severely compromised. And they're they're again, they're not a big old fully grown tree. They look more like twigs. So, I am thinking the tree should probably be

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approved to be removed. They're going to be damaged anyway with the construction. Um, >> question. Mhm. >> They are knocking down the existing house and building a brand new one on that lot. That's what I was >> I'm unclear about that, too. >> I think that that was shown, but they

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are going to add, you know, I think they're going to improve it. They want to make it bigger. I know they're putting a deck in the back, >> and they don't have much room. >> There are some other existing trees on that property that they said they're going to >> keep, they're going to retain, and they're going to add others. The only thing I have an issue with is we don't

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have a landscape plan as to what they're going to plant or replace. replace the trees with. >> So, >> so I guess they just hedges or are they going to be trees? >> Yeah, there's circles and stuff, but it doesn't say what the species are. So, we don't know. Um,

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>> so I I I kind of just did, but I'm going to make the motion that we approve the removal pending a landscape plan that tells us what the new trees will be and their species. >> I'll second. >> Okay. Roll call. George A.

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>> Yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Carol, >> yes. >> George W. >> Yes. >> Kathy, >> yes. >> All right. Next on the agenda is 8:30 Washington Street. >> Is that your district, Kathy? >> I'm sorry. Which one? >> 8:30 Washington.

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>> Washington. >> I was I think >> I visited that anyway because I think you were away. >> Yeah, I did not. >> Okay. I visited that property. That was where there was once a dentist office. And um so there's a there's a holly in front. It's a multi- trunk holly. It's right up against the building that's

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going to be demolished when the building's demolished. So the holly is going to go on the side of the property is a silver maple that's been basically butchered throughout the years and is more shrublike than anything. So that's going to go. And then the rear yard is

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concrete. The only thing that's there is a malberry tree in the corner. um which is healthy, but I don't see how they're going to how they're going to keep that in place. So, I think we're going to have to allow for all of that removal, but we don't have a landscape plan on this property either.

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>> I I think given the location of that property, a landscaping plan really would be in order. >> Yeah, >> it's it's one of the gateways to the city. um the property isn't uh needs to be worked on and I think a landscaping plan

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would really enhance our ability to determine what their their plans are and we might have actually have some input into improving that piece of property there. >> I agree. My suggestion was that we would approve the removal of these trees pending that landscape plan. >> Agreed.

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>> Anybody want to put that in the form of a motion? >> Um move that the uh property on 8:30 >> 8:30 Washington >> 8:30 uh Washington Street that the application be approved pending the uh

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submission of a landscaping plan. >> I'll second >> with the type of trees. >> Yeah, that's landscape plan has to have the species of trees included. Yes. So it was seconded. Roll call, please. >> George A. >> Yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Carol Sick, >> yes. >> George W.

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>> Yes. >> Kathy, >> yes. >> All right. All right. Next on the agenda is 504 Jefferson Street. It's a silver maple in the rear yard. Um it's been pruned. Um many people do that with their silver maples. I'm not quite sure why they

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think it makes them look better, but this tree has been pruned historically. Um however, it is in full leaf. It does not appear to be in imminent danger of falling. Um, I don't see a reason that we need to uh

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proceed with with having this removed at this time. That's my opinion. Anybody else take a look at that? I don't know if anybody else took a look at that tree. That's Barbara Priminger's district and she's no longer here. So, that's why I looked at that. >> Mr. Chairman, I did take a look at that

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tree and I agree with your analysis. >> Okay. So, for now, would someone like to make a motion on that tree? Well, they want to remove it. Do we want to remove it or have it stay? >> Mr. Chairman, I'd like to to move that we deny the application at 40504

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Jefferson Street pending further information that we will submit to the applicant. >> Anyone want to second that? >> I'll second. >> Okay. Roll call, please. Lauren. >> George A. >> Yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Carol, >> yes. >> George W. >> Yes. >> Kathy,

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>> yes. >> All right. We have one street tree removal request and that's 101 Maryland Avenue. I took a look at that. It is a I believe it's a service berry which has been overly pruned. This this particular

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um property had the they were had the three trees pruned on the side multiple times even though they were on the city rightway that we had um informed them not to do that. I at this point uh with that particular tree in front there's a

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sizable tree pit there. I I think it should be removed because it's just so in such bad shape. It will put a substantial size tree there in its place that's of a more significant size. >> I agree. >> Agreed. >> All right. How about >> put that address, George?

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>> 101 Maryland. It's a corner property. Could I get a motion for this, please? >> No, not yet. I'll make a motion to to remove the tree on 101 Marilyn Avenue >> and replant

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>> and replant. Yeah. A tree in its place. >> Okay. >> I'll second. >> Lauren, roll call. >> George A. >> Yes. >> Tracy, >> yes. >> Carol Sick, >> yes. >> George W. >> No. I'll give you the reason for my no. I do

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not think bad behavior should be reported. >> Okay. Thank you. >> It's you need to have a difference of opinions. That's what makes it a board. >> Makes it a board. >> So, you think the tree should stay? >> Yes.

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>> Uh the top of the tree is alive. Oh, it's sprouting everywhere. >> And and it's sprouting. And um it's ironic that we're bringing this tree up today after Councelor Gillan Schwarz's uh uh resolution that we voted on in the

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affirmative to pass that along to city council to prevent such pruning, such trimming, >> so that you get a >> I don't I don't think it's apples to apples. We're talking about a street tree here. No one's allowed us to touch a street tree and that's finable >> and that's that's but councilman they did >> property. Yeah,

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>> it it was trimmed and it wasn't trimmed by our people. >> Was there any repercussions for the trimming? >> I know. I I contact I contacted code enforcement and I believe they either sent a letter or spoke to the homeowner, >> but it it it happened again. And there's three um Quansz and Cherry on the

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sideyard on Madison Avenue that that they've also pruned. They look >> they look like a little shrub on top of a stick. >> Those are bonsai cherries. >> You would never knowing right now. >> I know. >> You never know what they were. And >> I don't even know that there's a corrective pruning method, too.

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>> So does >> that tree is so stressed though. I mean it's literally there is buds at the bottom. They're spread. There's sprouts everywhere. >> It's going to look like a bush. >> Okay. >> So is the policy of code enforcement to give out warnings after they the rules have been broken or give out fines? I

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think it's a case-byase basis. Um I know I'm working on another not a shade tree um matter but a different code enforcement matter and trying to work on a more of a streamlined formal process on what they should be following. So, um, I'll speak with Captain Walker,

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who's the technically their department head, and make sure that we're following the protocol and and if the Shade Tree Commission would like some more, um, enforcement, feel free to reach out to me and we'll make sure that it's uh, being done. Okay.

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>> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Old business. I don't have anything for old business. Anyone else? >> Nope. Okay. New business. That pretty much was the new business. >> Unless there's something else that someone >> Yeah. I have a couple questions because

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I have two trees on Lafayette Street that people have called about having them trimmed. Both of them because they're hanging >> in the um within the um lines. >> So that's something for Atlantic City Electric. Our our our city landscaper won't get involved with electric wires.

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No, it has to be done by the electric company as far as >> So what do I tell them? >> Past practice. Are these are street trees? Yeah, it's a street train. >> Yeah. >> Every every so many years they hire their own people to come in. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It doesn't look like Lafayette Street's been done in a while. So then So I just

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we just deny it. >> They just did Lafayette Street actually last year. But they did. See, and the thing with the Atlantic City Electric is uh when I asked for an clarification as to why certain trees get trimmed and certain ones don't because the house next door to me, those that those

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branches are all up through those wires. But as long as they're not the primary uh power source, primary wires, they don't bother pruning them. If they're secondary lines, they don't they don't bother doing that. So, I don't even know if they would come out for that. If they just did Lafayette Street last year, I

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doubt they're going to be >> probably not. They they would um come out. They have been doing it more routinely. Um, and I did make it a point when I talked to their government affairs rep, I think the last time, to make sure that um, when they do come

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back out that they come to the commission and make sure that they make themselves known and make sure that they know who >> um, in town they need to be communicating with because, you know, we are a tree city and they need to take that into account when they start going out there and

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>> we don't want them overp pruning. Yeah. Um, but it's an important measure. It is, >> but I think they have to take more of a surgical approach um at things >> because I I actually I requested that they let us know what streets they'd be working on too, so someone either the district uh commissioner or me or vice

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chairman could go and check it out and be on top of things, preventative measures. Okay. Thank you. All right. Subcommittee report. Anything? >> Uh none for me, Mr. Chairman. subcommittee uh uh or main business

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today was the uh termine request. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Treasures report. Carol's not here. Council report. Councilman Meyer. >> I'm going to defer to the deputy city manager about next week's event >> on Wednesday. >> The open house. >> Oh, the open house. Yes. So, next week,

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May 20th, um at the uh convention center, uh I believe start time is at 6 5 o'clock. >> 5 to 7. >> Um it's good good thing I sat next to you, George. Um >> I have it on the computer. >> Okay, there you go. Um 5 to 7. It's going to be a wonderful time. We'll have

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some remarks by the city manager, the mayor, um, and obviously make sure that the public comes out and, and I think it's important for this board to be there because you, like you started off the meeting, education is an important component of the shade tree commission

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and making sure people know this board is involved. This board um, you know, basically you have to come in front of this board if you have a tree that needs to be removed and and you need to know which ones you can and can't. And it's a good education process, I think, for um

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the members of the public. >> Yeah, exactly. >> I have a quick question. Maybe this is for you. I don't know. >> Okay, I'll try. >> Um a lot of people we've heard in here and so forth say that they don't know that a tree on their property is not theirs to cut down or whatever. And I

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wonder if there's some way people who are buying homes in the city can be advised of this so when they come into town they know my trees are subject to our commission approving their removal of what

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>> subject to ordinances and you know >> that's that's that's something I don't know if the realators can do that. I mean I mean I know they can. their level to impact a sale perhaps, but I think that the public needs to know this.

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>> Well, um I would suggest if if you want we can um the board can put something together. I can work with Councilman Meyer and we can let um civic affairs Casey and um her team actually are the public information people and they do periodically drop off literature to

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realators about different things that are going on in town. Um, you know, so I think it's a partnership. We can certainly give them the information. It's on them to pass it out. Um, and you know, it's about also educating the public. So, the open house is a good

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spot, I think, to start and we can kind of work our way from there. But, I'd be more than happy to work with this board and um, get that information out. You just get it over to me. >> I think it's really important, I mean, that they know this is a tree city. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Moving into that.

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>> Yep. You have to know what you're getting yourself into, right? >> Exactly. >> Yes. >> We did have discussions with city manager uh Councilman Meyer and I about enclosing in the utility bills um or the >> but I was also going to

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>> putting in into the tax um newsletter was going to be kind of the next step. Um >> and that's on us to get you information. >> Yes. And then we do send that out quarterly. Um, so soon as you get the information, we can work on making sure that it's obviously pushed out.

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>> I'm wondering if we should have that in if like construction or zoning would >> I don't know if they give anything out like HPC to you know that that they have to deal with. >> Um, zoning does do a um a compliance review. >> Um, but I'm not sure where in that

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process we could insert something. We want to be able to make sure that it's that it's impactful because by the time zoning does something that could be six months by the time that sale goes through. So, I think it it's probably better like we were talking about partnering or working with some of the

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realators maybe in town and and some of the other um people that we can reach out to. Um but I'm more than happy to try to help facilitate that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> If I could just add one more thing, Mr. Chamron, I just want to draw to your attention that at the next council

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meeting, um, I'm working on two resolutions to try to obtain two grants. Um, so if I'm successful, obviously I'll work with Councilman Meyer and we'll bring it back to the commission. One is for the green communities 2026, which is um, it aims to get a town in inventory

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and community forestry management plan in place. >> Need that. And the other one is the NJUCF stewardship 2026 which focuses on pruning and removing hazardous trees. So both are um $25,000 each.

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>> So um it's a competitive grant process. They only give it out to 10 towns, but um I just wanted to make sure you were aware that I am going to put that resolution on um the next council meeting and um hopefully we can be successful in that grant. >> Yeah, that's great. That would be wonderful if we get those. Thank you for

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doing that. >> Absolutely. >> Can I ask one question, please? Sure. Before we turn, >> um, >> I should I should have asked you, Shane, Councilman, about this. I know that we had uh 2025 uh $20,000 from the state of New Jersey

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for lantern >> ply. >> Do we get an additional which is expended pretty much >> um >> we last year >> for 2026. Can we anticipate receiving a similar

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$20,000 >> grant for the eradication program for lantern flies? >> I'm not sure, but I can check in on it and and get back to the board if that's okay. >> We'll find out more. We'll find out.

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>> And Carol, I did want to mention one thing before we adjourn this meeting about Arbor Day. You submitted that article twice to Star and Wave and to the Herald, correct? To both >> and it still hasn't appeared in either. I didn't see the paper today. I did pick >> It's not in this darn wave today. >> It's not I don't know what the holdup

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is. Do you know who the contact person is there? >> I just sent it to the uh publisher, but I guess you could go to the editor. I did did it once. This is the article that I wrote for the paper. We were going to >> I think someone should stop by the

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office where I don't know. That's what I want. It used to be in Harry Street, >> but >> No, it used to be. >> Yeah. I don't think >> I thought the mole was >> Well, we'll try to find out and then I can go over and talk with them and find out what the hel hold up is.

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>> I didn't know exactly where to go. >> I mean, it's it's a nice article and it's not anything space. >> I know this was in there. That's >> Yeah, >> I didn't want that. >> All right. Does anyone have anything else today? >> This was one of our longest meetings so

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far. I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. >> I'll second. I'll No, I'll entertain the motion. Make >> I'll make the motion that we adjourn the meeting. >> I'll second. >> All right. Roll call. We might as well do it that way. I know you >> you can do it all in favor >> anonymously. >> All right.

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>> All in favor? Hey.