You're live. All right. Good evening. Welcome to the select board meeting of Tuesday, August 12th, 2025. I'd like to open the meeting with a roll call. Roll call. Starting with Barney, if you're out there,
Modell here. Institute a roll call. Snell here. Stevens here. Triola here. Like school. Did you start that, Scott? No, we have to do it when you have a remote person. When we have a remote person. All right. So, let me run through the agenda. There's there's uh a little bit
of modification to the agenda. Tonight, we're going to open with community input followed by appointments and resignations followed by discussion of the street sign uh proposed program. Then, um 7:30 rever refer a proposed zoning bylaw. amendment to the planning
board. Um then we were scheduled originally to hear from the historical commission on the demo delay bylaw presentation. They will not be presenting tonight. They've requested to present on the 26. So we will see if we can accommodate that. Um as time allows
we will instead at 7:45 move to warrant and minutes approval followed by liaison reports proclamation and if time allows begin the town administrator report. Um, at 8:15 we will do the Tecton Fire
Station presentation followed at 9:30. If we could just mute uh Barney I think. Sorry. Um, followed at 9:40 uh 9:30 by the special town meeting discussions to talk about logistics and then the town
administrator report at 9:45 and close with community input um as time allows. So, with that, let's open it up to community input. We'll begin with the room. Does anyone in the room have a community input? Yep. Mark Mark Bernstein, 43 Peter Hans Road. Uh I
just wanted to follow up uh a couple select boards ago at right after there was the conquered Carlile get together about anti-semitism in the prompted by the suit against the Carl uh the conquered school system including
the high school. Uh and I I I sent a letter well letter an email but these days that's a letter to all to the select board and to the school committee and requested two thing or request yeah I guess requested two things. one that
uh the select board uh appoints somebody who's uh beyond just counting on the school committee, the regional school committee, but somebody from the select board to go to every following meeting of that that that would pertain to the
subject mostly hosted by the conquered system and then to also that the select board ask the school committee uh to uh provide to the public data on any anti-semitic or other uh um similar
crimes or or incidents that have occurred in the Carile public schools and I haven't heard anything back from anyone. So I guess my question is should I hear something? Would I expect to get a reply from the school board that yes, we received your thing. uh we've entered
it in the public record uh and we intend to yes to to uh follow up on those. So I I will respond to that comment. Um I met with Brian Watston and I believe he emailed me. He sent a note, but it was I I like Brian. He's a nice guy, but it was
devoid of content. Didn't he said he was gonna he was going to be the one that would be the lead. It's not as specifically that somebody from the select board Yeah. as a liaison, I'll be attending all those meetings and then um for our action item, they'll be on our September
23rd agenda to discuss those matters, some of the statistics and and report out on those incidents and for the for the Carile for the Carile schools. And part of that timing is um that's fine just by virtue of their meeting schedule. So, right, I didn't get that response.
Nobody told me that. Okay. All right. That was that was included in the response. So, I'll I'll double double back on that and make sure that that's in there. So, thank you. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Good. Yes.
Hi. Uh Greg Atkins, 40 Hillside Road. Um first meeting. I'll try to keep it brief. Um this is in regards to the MBTA Communities Act. Um,
last Monday, August 4th, uh, I shared a letter of concern with, uh, you select board members as well as the planning board members. So, maybe you've seen it, maybe you're familiar by now, um, about some concerns, uh, specific to our
neighborhood, which is essentially between East Street and LOL, um, behind St. Irene's. Um, and since that time, uh, the plan apparently changed. Um, for example,
um, my house, which was not a pre962 dwelling, is now, um, part of the list, uh, identified for one of the zoning overlays. And I just found out about that um via
letter Saturday and then the planning board meeting voted to include that in the memo that you're going to be reviewing and um deciding on tonight. So myself, some others in the meeting, I think were a
little bit blindsided by the changes. were already concerned, you know, based on our letter of concern um that that we shared and then, you know, I and some others wrote a letter that I think was shared, an email that was shared with
with you all today. So, um I don't know if you have any questions, but just wanted to raise that during this portion of the meeting and start there. Thank you. We did receive your email and we do have an agenda item at 7:30 where
we'll briefly discuss not the different scenarios and and properties but a procedural request from from the planning board. So, uh I'm hoping that at 7:30 that can we can clarify some of what's being asked of the select board tonight. Okay, great. Thank you.
Can I correct the record? Sure. Yeah. I guess somehow I missed Brian. I I misread it or I didn't read it, but I now I just looked very quickly at Brian's uh Wat's email from a couple weeks ago and he did he did he did address both questions. Okay.
And I'll I'll so my apologies. Nope. No problems. Thank you. Additional comments from the room and then we'll we'll go online. Seeing none, we'll ask for any community comments from uh remote participants.
Okay, seeing none, we're going to move on to appointments and resignations. And um in terms of appointments, Barney, uh I think there was one appointment you wanted to bring forward regarding um the LSC.
She out there. There she Oh, she's outside now. I think she's fading in and out. She's muted. You can unmute Barney. She's frozen. She might be frozen. Yeah.
Well, I'll open it up. There was um uh appointment request for Alex Perah to the LSC. That appointment was uh supported by both Conscom and the LSC. I don't believe the materials were included in the packet. Uh, but Barney
had requested that the select board consider that appointment tonight. And Barney, if you can hear me, I think your feed is frozen, so maybe try muting your video and um doing audio only. While she works on that, do you just
want to quickly run through? We did have some staff appointments in the COS. You just want to run down those? So, we have two COS um van drivers that we'll be starting. Um one is Austin Remos and
another is Bob Wallhagen. They're both uh Carlile residents actually. So, we're excited to have them join us. Good. And then um I will also have a new uh finance and HR assistant on my team. So, we're very excited. And she's also starting next next week. So, who who is she replac is she replacing?
So, uh Honest Coats. Okay. So, the honest replacement. Yeah. Yep. So, um, we're very excited. I'm especially very excited to have the team full again. Okay. And did you have any information on the the nomination Barney was bringing forward? Was there an
application? I don't have more details. I know she mentioned that um this request had been made in the past, so it should have been part of that agenda. Okay. So, why don't we come back to that one? Yeah.
Let's move forward. Uh, and hopefully Barney gets her connection up and running. Um, we will revisit that appointment. Um, and let's since it's 7:10, let's move on to the street sign program discussion. So, if you want to step forward and say your name, address,
and kick things off. Thank you. Thank you. Hello. I'm Russell Ruthan, a resident of 136 Pine Brook Road. Um, I'd like to take a few minutes just to read a short statement, uh, including a land
acknowledgement, uh, and then we'll talk about the, uh, policy. Uh, Carile is located on the traditional and ancestral lands of indig indigenous peoples, including the Massachusetts, Nipmuk, Wampaog, and others who lived here for thousands of years. We remember that the
lives of our ancestors benefited from their local knowledge of the resources on these lands. We pay respect to the indigenous peoples past and present and we honor the land itself which remains sacred to them. I represent a group of
Carile residents advocating for a street dedication policy. In advance of this meeting, we provided the select board with a proposal of the policy. Uh I will summarize the key aspects of the proposal following the statement. What we are seeking tonight
is a commitment of the select board to move forward on drafting a policy and ultimately to adopt the policy in a future meeting. We hope the town of Carile might see what other municipalities already understand that street name dedication is an inclusive
and democratic process for honoring the past. This is not an effort to be politically correct but rather historically accurate. And in the area of honoring indigenous peoples, Carile is lagging our neighboring towns. Let's take Actton
as an example. Actton has a walking trail, a trail through time, which has interpretive signs providing archaeological information about the indigenous and colonial artifacts found there. The Actton Library has an exhibit
based on the artifacts some 7,000 years old found at the Pinehawk Pinehawk Archaeological Site, now the Actton Wastewater Treatment Facility. In 2022, the town of Actton approved an archaeological protection bylaw to help
preserve indigenous artifacts during new building development. Carile strives to be a welcoming community and we need to understand that welcoming includes not only how we treat those who live here now but how we honor the past. While there are many ways we
might considering honoring the indigenous peoples of this area, the residents I represent chose street dedication policies because one, there are many precedents around the country. Two, the policies are relatively straightforward. and three,
implementation is inexpensive for the municipality. The names of the streets in Carile, those that are here today, were generally chosen decades ago, but some of those names no longer reflect the values of the people who live here now.
I am quite reluctant to provide even a partial list of problematic names in this open forum because a discussion of each name would likely be lengthy and derail the primary objective derail the primary objective of the group I represent. Instead, we'd rather put a
positive foot forward. The residents of Pine Brook Road would like to be one of the first applicants to the street dedication program with the proposed honorary name of Mickey Road. The Alangrian word mkino means
turtle. Turtles are important animals in indigenous cultures and Pine Brook Road is close to Turtle Rock, a recognized indigenous site in Great Brook Farm. If the initiative is successful, we believe Nick would be the very first public
road, waterway, trail, hill, or other geographic feature to honor indigenous peoples in Carlile. the very first. It would be particularly meaningful if the street dedication policy were adopted before April 12th, 2028, which marks the
350 years since the end of the compl conflict here between indigenous peoples and European settlers. The conflict known as King Phillip's war or Mediccom's rebellion. And more generally, the success of this initiative might inspire other
dedications in town to honor other overlooked individuals or groups. I would now like to take another minute to summarize the five key features of the policy for the street dedication
program. First, honorary street signs are not replacements, but rather temporary additions, typically for a limited term in different geographic regions, different lengths of time, 10, 20 years. Second, the honorary signs are
distinguished by shape, color, and position from the official signs so that the emergency services are not misled. Third, generally if twothirds of the owners residing on a street can agree on a name, they would submit an application
that would be approved by the select board uh which would approve the name unless it was found to lack cultural significance to Carlile or was deemed obscene, indecent or profane. Fourth, donations of residents on the
street generally cover the complete cost of the sign and installation, generally between $1 and $300. And finally, fifth, honorary names are not permitted on all roads. They are not permitted on what are considered
arterial roads, which are streets which go through the town center or crosses town borders or affords a primary mean of access from an arterial street to at least two other streets. Uh this is so because major roads as defined there, it
would cause too much confusion for emergency services and other reasons. I'm happy to answer your questions and I appreciate your attention. Thank you. questions, comments. Barney, can you hear us? Are you look
like you're I see video and motion? Yes. Hi. Hi. Sorry, I had to uh go back onto my phone. I thought I could get you on my laptop, but anyway, I'm here. Great. I heard presentation. Okay. Did you have any comments, Barney? I know you had um discussed this a
little bit ahead of time. Yeah. Um well I I maybe I hadn't focused before on uh the specific uh purpose in terms of uh recognizing
sort of our you know something about our cultural heritage car's cultural heritage. Um and I I appreciate that. I you know I think that's a a worthwhile endeavor. Um
I Russ I what I'm not clear on is the how it would work you know on a given street and maybe you could describe how it's done in other towns but I'm I'm trying to imagine so you have let's say
you have you know 15 homes on a street and you would somebody would be the leader and convene them and then propose names and then there'd be a vote by that group and they would signed something official and it um what did you say it
had to have a 50% majority? 2/3 2/3 2/3. So, and then let's say a couple people move away that were in the majority. Um and so it no longer has the twothirds. I
mean I I guess I'm just wondering logistically how the whole thing works administratively. And then is somebody on the street responsible for you, you know, organizing that and then you submit something some kind of a formal
um document to uh the town hall to the town administrator or eventually to the select board for approval. Talk us through a little bit how you see it actually working in Carlile. Let's say for example on your street. Yeah, I so
um many of the towns that I've looked at um do it through an application process. So, uh the application um has a series of specific questions. Uh the proposed name, its cultural or historical significance. Um also includes the
signatures of the people on that street, you know, who uh agreed to uh have the honorary street name. Um that whole application is put together uh sometimes with a uh a small fee um a processing fee uh which is not the cost that would
be uh covering the um the sign and so forth. But within that statement uh an application the group also agrees to uh pay for the cost uh of the sign. um that is then probably in Carlile would probably be submitted I would guess to the town clerk who would then bring it
forward to the the board uh the select board that would vote on it at an upcoming meeting. Once approved the group would then be um free to contact the contractor, purchase the sign and uh obviously put the sign up on the on the street.
I have I have two questions. one. How many streets in Carlile would be eligible? And Russ, um, I'm sorry. Oh, I think she froze again. Is this a bylaw? What would this be? Would it have to be a bylaw or just a policy? I don't know.
Policy, I would think. My Sorry, Barney, you're breaking up. Let me answer a couple of those. First of all, my understanding was um with discussions with other members of the select board was that this could be a a policy decided just by the select board that it doesn't have to be a bylaw.
Um so that's first thing. The second question I think was do you mind repeating the question? How many streets in Carlile? Yeah. How many streets in Carlile? Um if I remember off the top of my head, there are roughly 50 streets in Carlile. um because a lot of them intersect. A lot
of them are going to be considered arterial roads, but potentially I would say up to 30 streets because there are a lot of streets that end, right? They they're just single streets. Yeah. Bonnie, um I would also say part of my reason
for coming here is the hope that I will work with the select board in an upcoming different forum to flush out the details of the policy and then come back. So, one of the things for sure that we would do is actually easily detail a list of roads that would be eligible.
Barney, go ahead. Yeah. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, now we can. Okay, great. Um, couple things for us. One is um so turn off your video. you working with
whomever you know at the select board and I don't have a radio on um so would uh would work out the details and typically in other towns are the people required to be uh voting vote you know registered to vote or
children in the household as well as the adults all get a vote or you know how does that part work? Um, in in most town it's it's the owner of record of that property. So, uh, potentially a lot of one vote well potentially
one vote per property. One vote per property. Okay. And then if they were joint owners, they'd have to agree jointly. Yes. Yeah. But they only get one vote for their house. Yes.
And then what about liability? Um, who who you're you're going to hire a contractor to install it? Good question. But what if the a contractor, you know, messes it up or, you know, hits a gas line or
um or somebody gets hurt in the process of installing it? How does all that work in your mind? Um, so I I think that's a good question, the liability question. However, I do want to remind us that we're talking about
installing a street sign. This is um the poles are already there. It's an existing pole and we're talking about adding some screws and nuts and bolts and adding it on. So, while I I admit there there's probably liability there.
Barney, can you can you try turning off your video because you keep freezing up and buffering. So, maybe just turn off your video. That might help. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Is that any better? Yes. I think so. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Um Sorry, Russ. I did not understand that. I thought you were
talking about a separate poll the way I've seen them in other towns, you know, that just has a little marker at the top that says whatever the memorial name is, but it goes in next to the existing street sign. So, you're asking for something different where our existing
street signs would then have an additional sign attached to them below the the current street sign. Is that correct? Correct. I see. What you mentioned other towns, you in in the in the packet it mentions other
cities and other states. Uh how many towns in Massachusetts have such a program or policy in place? Um well the towns mentioned are uh the city of Champagne, Illinois, the village of Westchester, Illinois, the city of
Clinton, Iowa, the city of Buffalo, New York, uh the city of Santana, California, the city of Tacoma, Washington. Um, but the answer to your question for tonight is I don't know because I anecdotally I I I I think Ryan had mentioned that some towns have had
this in the past but have have ceased doing it for whatever reason. I don't know why. I'm guessing good intentions with unintended consequences. And so, you know, I I like the sentiment of it and I like the the goal of it. I do have concerns about the implementation
specifically of of of street signs. I do wonder does our existing sign policy in town prohibit um acknowledging and honoring um groups or because I do know people can display a sign of a certain size on
their property. Would that not be an acceptable way to to honor if we're not changing official street names and this is just a symbolic thing. I I would think that people would already have the ability to do that within our our current sign policy, would they not?
Um potentially uh yes I mean there are lawn signs acceptable lawn signs uh that can be placed in in different uh places. Uh however um I think you should understand that there's a difference that I'm trying to achieve here between um
individuals taking a action and a public announce an acknowledgement on the part of the town of certain individuals and peoples. But it it's not so much a public acknowledgement. we would be we would essentially be implementing a policy that individual neighborhoods would
um pursue and and go through. But yes, public in the sense public in the sense that the neighborhood is expressing a u a certain expression. And my concern is that um
similar with our flag policy one, you know, if you're going to give latitude to do that, you have to give everybody you have to give within the bounds of obscenity and and other things. And then there's a lot of gray area potentially. um it's now falling on the select board
to to make some potentially um I don't sensitive judgments that were we've put policies in place to avoid doing like with our flag policy. Um so the the example you give is is a is a great one of a positive acknowledgement but there could be examples that other groups
wouldn't consider positive. There's also probably people on maybe on his street that say well why are we changing the name like that name's my I grew up with that name. You're not changing the official name, right? You're not changing the official street name. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. But then they don't vote for it, David.
So, I can I can see that, you know, I think this actually could be something that a neighborhood could rally behind. It could really, you know, get the neighborhood together. Um, I would just like to propose that before it comes before the select board for approval, just route it through the historical commission and the postmaster and the
fire department. Um, you know, there's there's nothing more uh, how shall I say, culturally insensitive than a group of well-meaning um, you know, white neighbors saying, "This is what we ought to name this
street based on our own uh, you know, limited knowledge of a language." I'm I'm guessing that no one speaks the native language that they would be naming the street after. Okay. Um, I I understand running it through the historical commission and your your points, some of your points
there. Um, I would also say that the town by not acknowledging the problems of some of the street names in town is also making a statement. That's a separate issue though. If we have officially named street names that
uh are objectionable in some way, then there's there's a pro I don't I'm not familiar with the specific process, but there's a process by which to change those names. Um um if if there is such a process, I would welcome a discussion of that. And is there a policy difference between
public and private way? I mean, we have a lot of private right ways in town. I have no idea. I don't know. I don't know what polices them, right? Or what administers them. As long as it's limited to historical and cultural, I mean I I I think it
would be um I I would be fine with it. I guess I should say I I know we're are we voting on anything? No, I don't think we're Yeah. Yeah. The the provision in your there you had mentioned 10 miles radius. I I
like my if I was crafting a policy, I would say it would have to be within Carile rather than 10 miles. You can't Yeah, you can't name another town's road. No, no, no. But he's talking about using something that that could be within 10 miles. Like the same name as 10 miles.
Well, no, no, no. The Well, actually, I'll let Russ you can. Yeah, I think that was the question. Yeah, I think if I'm remembering that correctly, you're not repeating. I just I noticed that thought that would be something to consider that it should just be Carl Center. There's main streets out there.
I I'm you know, I don't I think it just has to run through a process here if this is what people want. I'm not you know, it's an addition to signs. It's not replacing street signs. It's, you know, honoring heritage. But well, is it though? Then you have two
names and I may agree with Christine like you got to think of it. But have you seen them in other towns? They're like different shape. Yeah, you could do Right. So that Well, let's be clear then. So it's not changing the official name. No, this is just this is just a placard of sorts. Snell drive for example.
Yeah. Well, boy, that has a ring to it. No, I'm kidding. It's It's like, you know, if it's not official, my impression of what Russell wrote was that it would be an official name that explicitly. No, this is just this is just a you know I would like to understand though where
this has been like within Massachusetts where this has been implemented andor ceased because to understand some of the some of the uh case studies of of the policies themselves I mean if we shouldn't we shouldn't have to start from ground
zero with writing a news policy from scratch if there should be examples of this in other in other towns that we can refer to and also best practice practices in terms of guidelines, what worked, what didn't. I think I'd like to see that fleshed out before we would consider making a commitment on it.
And and I respect that and I would expect that. Um and I would also say that um the draft policy that I believe was included was was based on another's towns, right? Um but there there's no reason why that policy couldn't be made much more suited
to the specific needs of Carile. It's meant to be a straw man policy, right? And it does have a 10year horizon or you've suggested between 10 and 20. I would think, you know, a 10-year period so that people could review it in a little shorter order if they had a I
don't know if they just decided after a decade that maybe it wasn't I don't know, they wanted to change it to from I don't know something to something else. Anyway, I think you're right to investigate a little bit more. I noticed that in the information we had the city
of Arlington, Texas had suspended public nominations temporarily. Um so I don't know I and that's all it says and I thought well geez we should probably understand not necessarily then but like what are some of the ramifications of this because I think what Scott was
saying is we have a flag policy. it it we we spent a lot of time on that and thinking about it and it's a you know we're in a very politically heated charged environment now. Um and it's just adding you know we just don't want
to bring on new new liabilities to the town I think would be and at least this select board has avoided being come becoming the cultural arbiters what's what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. So having very
clear guidelines that really minimize the, you know, that clearly spell out what's allowable and what's not is is very important to something like this because you don't want, you know, whoever's sitting in these seats to be making arbitrary decisions on some of these things.
But you do have a process. It takes a lot to get twothirds of anything to agree. So I feel a small street. Yeah. And again, I think if the historical commission gives it a stamp of approval, I mean, they're going to vet something.
And we're we're out of time on this discussion. Um, but I, you know, I think identifying their role in the process, do they review the applicants, right, prior to coming to the select board, you know. So, I think some of those questions are what are the what would the checks be along the way so that when
it came up for final approval, we know it's gone through the proper vetting. Okay. Um, I appreciate the time of the board. I appreciate the feedback and I hope to come back to you with something successful. And I appreciate the time and you and your neighbors have put into this. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, Russ. Thank you. All right, Julie. 7:30. Refer a proposed zoning law bylaw amendment to the planning board in accordance with MGL chapter 48 section 5 compliance with 4DA 3A
potential vote. So before we get too far into this, um just as I briefly explained to the um select board for the public's benefit, uh Julie came to uh the planning meeting last week when we were discussing the agenda and requested
a brief agenda item for a what's the right term? Procedural slash legal step that would essentially allow the planning board to have a public hearing on the proposed zoning bylaw amendments for MBTA. Correct. Potentially. Correct.
Okay. Um and so that's the goal of tonight and I know there was a lengthy detailed memo attached to that that is the subject of a lot of discussion and has created um additional concern that we've heard from
from multiple parties today about uh the timing and the contents of that. Uh but I want to make clear uh tonight the select board does not intend to discuss or deliberate any particular strategy, any particular property. Um we're here purely to um
take a motion and or a potential vote on a procedural issue. And so could you just speak to that and clarify exactly um what we're looking at, what you need from us, and what the implications of an affirmative vote would be. Right. Yeah. So, there's a section of
mass general law in the zoning act that protects a citizen's right to access the town meeting warrant. Um, so typically when a zoning bylaw is put forth by a planning board, uh, in many towns it's just communicated between the staff that work in town hall and it get there's
placeholder put on the warrant. Um, but this so this procedural um step within this law is not necessarily required. Um but town council is recommending that we take this step for something like MBTA communities because it's pretty important. Um just to make sure that like everything that we're doing is
completely airtight um and legally sound. Um and so it's basically the planning board voted last night 600 to submit this memo and the draft bylaw amendments and the list of 113 sites to you so that you could then refer it back
to them and say go ahead have your public hearing. That is what this step is. And so, Julie, um, can you hear me? Yes. Yeah. Hi, it's Barney. Um, and so I just want to be really clear because a couple
of people reached out to me. And so our vote tonight is no indication of the select board taking any position on any of the contents of the documents that you sent us. Correct. Correct. Yes, that is correct. Yeah. So again,
and this the planning board hasn't taken a position either. It's really a procedural matter. It's just to acknowledge it's basically the select board acknowledging that the planning board has been working on this and this is their work product so far or and and they are requesting up to six
like placeholder articles on the town meeting warrant and I read through this memo and I read the M MGL and in the MGL it says the select board there's a there's a procedural thing where the select board brings it to the planning board who then can then hold a
public hearing and we haven't done that and and so I I think is that what this is trying to address is that technicality in in essence. Yeah. So you did do it for the ADU bylaw um earlier this year. Was that this year? I don't. Um and but prior to that, you know, I
don't know, you know, I don't I don't know. Right. Um in Carlile, but by the letter of the law, that's the step that should be taken. Right. So that is the step that that we're trying to So nobody could challenge it then and say you didn't procedurally proceed properly. Correct.
Right. And and then Julie, um the the hearing that you mentioned that the planning board wants to hold, uh that's an opportunity for people that have concerns about any part of the current options to come and
express those concerns. And is that a is that a um open kind of community hearing where anybody can speak and they have plenty of time to interact with the uh planning board? Yes, I expect that it would be um and
the planning board also is meeting multiple Mondays every month currently and they have time for public comment at their meetings currently. So um the the public hearing is a required legal step that will be taken but all of their meetings are open public meetings
regardless. Yeah. So I go ahead but just just again trying to you know reflect some of the comments I received. Um, and so, uh, is it, uh, likely or or certainly a
possibility that the planning board after this public hearing would then make some further adjustments to the proposals. So, yeah. So during the public hearing, I expect the planning board would refine
the language that's in the draft amend the draft zoning um and also narrow the site selection um and then after they close the hearing, they would need to make a report to town meeting um with a recommendation. So this so the hearing is the last
opportunity that uh towns people have to um have input into the what gets submitted to town meeting on November 2nd. Um yes it I believe it would be the last opportunity they would have to provide
input into the motions that get moved at town meeting. Yes. And those motions will be provided to people that are going to the um public hearing. The draft bylaw language would be provided to people at the hearing. The
motions would come at some point later. I think they would be very similar. I see. Okay. Yeah. Uhhuh. Okay. I'd asked if Thank you. just to just to because I know this is a an important topic to the
town and I want to make sure everything we're doing is is properly vetted. I did ask if town council could attend tonight and I do believe town council is um here. So, hello. Good evening. Um I'm not sure if you're familiar with the the motion we're considering, but we just
wanted to confirm um the motion itself, its its purpose, its scope um in light of what we're talking about tonight. So, are you familiar with the motion before us? Yes, uh, Mr. Chair, I believe I am. And
as Julie, the planning director, stated, um, one of the very first sentences of, uh, general laws chapter 48, section 5, requires that the process for initiating a zoning bylaw amendment begin with its submission to the select board, which
then has to, in short order, I believe within 10 days, refer it to the planning board for a hearing. Um, This is exactly as it's been discussed so far tonight, a procedural sort of ministerial step that, you know, checks a box so that the
state when the attorney general's office reviews the bylaw, we'll see that all of the process was complied with. Um, beyond that, as you stated, it has no bearing um, you know, on the board's opinion of the proposed zoning or what it would look like, you know, by the
time it gets to town meeting in November. So, as has been discussed, this is just a procedural step um so that we can send it back to the planning board for a hearing. Okay. Thank you very much. Does anyone have any questions on that? Okay.
Um do you want to make a motion? I I do, but um Okay. Yes. I I would move that uh to refer to the the proposed zoning bylaw amendment as referenced in the memo included in the packet to the planning board in accordance with Mass
General Law Chapter 4A section 5. Second. Any further discussion or deliberation? Seeing none, um let's do a roll call vote with Barney being remote. Arnold I. Not I. Snell I
Stevens I Triola I So should we symbolically hand this back to you? Sure. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you Julie. Appreciate it. Okay. Let's circle back um since we have
a few minutes. U Barney we we I don't know if you had heard us but we moved on from the appointments um while you worked on your connection. Um, did you just want to speak briefly to the proposed appointment for um
the LSC? Alex? Yep. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Hi. um as the liaison now to the LSC. Um I um uh went to their last meeting and uh also went to a concom meeting and um
Alex Para had submitted his paperwork quite a while ago. Gretchen has all of that but each board had first the LLC and then the concom had to vote on uh supporting him you know and putting him forward to the select board. So, that's finally been done and rather than wait
until our next select board meeting, um there is a LSC meeting coming up next week and so uh if it's acceptable to the select board, I thought we should um vote to approve his uh appointment to
the LSC tonight. And I don't know, does everybody know Alex? you know, he has a long history work working on um both being as a member of the cons and and doing a number of other volunteer
uh efforts in town. And so he's very knowledgeable in this area and I think would be a a great addition to the LSC. Andy's an attorney who handles environmental cases, that's my understanding as well.
Yes. Okay. Does someone want to make Do you want me to Do you want me to make a nomination? Sure. Okay. Uh except I don't remember Alex's street uh address. He's on Bellow's Hill.
Okay. So, I would like to nominate Alex Parah of Bellows Hill Road uh to the land stewardship committee for a term of three I think they're three-year terms.
Sorry, I should have known that earlier. But Aubrey, can you speak to that at all? I can confirm that for you. Okay, thank you. Let's see. It's on here. It's not in the packet. It's not.
Or Alex, I think maybe on uh the Zoom. There is an Alex listed on our call on our Zoom here. No, I'm here. Hey. All right. Alex, what's your street number? What's your number on Bell's Hill?
31. Thank you, Alex. He passed the test. He knows he's qualified. You don't know the answer to that? You're out. Okay. We're just determining the length of the
term. Alex, do you know? I don't actually. Okay. Forever. Forever. Alex. I'm pretty sure it's a three-year term. You can get in, but you can't get out. It is a three-year term. I just don't I don't know which one he's filling.
Okay. Okay. Okay, Alex, do you know what seat you're filling by any chance? Um, so the the charter says 10 to 12 members. Um, okay.
And that's a lot of members. So, it's either one of the seats that was just vacant or um I think the former vice chair resigned as of the end of
the last um um year. Um so um okay, that would be U Rhonda. Okay, so is that a might be an addition just an additional
position because she's already not on this list. Okay, so term. So it'll be for a three-year term. So we have Barney, you made the motion. I'll second. David, you seconded. Any further
discussion or deliberation? We'll do a roll call vote. Starting with Barney. Barney, are you out there? Okay. Arnold. Arnold. I Nodelli. Snell. I Steven's eye.
Triola. I Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you, Alex. Okay, let's so um we are as I mentioned at the outset we are not going to be uh getting a presentation on the historic commission demo delay bylaw. I'll provide a brief update on that in the
liaison reports. Um we're just going to proceed between now and 8:15 with um the agenda items starting with warrant and minutes approval. So we have one set of minutes for approval. They are the July 22nd, 2025 meeting minutes that were provided in
the packet. If anyone had a chance to review, I did. Any comments, edits? I had no changes. No changes. Someone want to make a motion to approve the minutes? Go ahead, Christine.
I move to approve the uh minutes from July 22nd select board meeting. A second. I'll second. Second. Barney. Any further discussion? Seeing none, we'll do a roll call vote. Arnold, I.
Modell, I. Snell, I. Stevens, I. Triola, I. And then Aubrey, I don't believe there's anything else under warrants and minutes tonight. That was the only motion. Is that correct? Okay. So, moving on to uh liaison reports. Um,
I can open I I did have a call with um the historic commission co-chairs last night uh to get an update on the demo delay bylaw um and just, you know, discuss them coming in tonight or or when that would be appropriate. Um, as I
mentioned, they they requested to come on the 26th because they want to continue to refine some of the bylaw language. They did confirm that they do intend to to proceed with the with the article at special town meeting. Um, most recently, I don't think they've been meeting much over the summer. They
did recently do an open house. Um, and I was just kind of getting them up to speed with, you know, just the whole lead up to town meeting, the importance, especially in the face of, um, MBTA of getting getting the word out, getting people educated um, about the bylaw
itself. So, we're going to work to fit them into the August 26th um, agenda. That's also the night we close the warrant. Um, that was essentially the update from them. As as far as they indicated, there really haven't been any substantive changes since the spring. So, I don't
know if if any of you were were following in the spring. I think all they've adjusted at this point is just some minor legal language, but the the key attributes are are the same. Did you get a sense of how many people showed up to their open house?
I did not. Did Aubrey, did you or someone had mentioned I don't I don't think there were that many. Um I mean it's it's in July and it's a tough time. Yeah. Um I you know my commentary to them was it's it's really not on people's radars.
I don't think people are aware or educated about it. And again it's the summer. We have MBTA. There's a lot of other distractions but that you know the reminder to everyone is we're now less what two and a half months out from special town meeting. And it's important
that um they get in front of us that that they begin the outreach. um and get people educated and and aware of of what they're proposing. So, we'll hear more from them on the 26th. Um but that was the update from that.
Other updates from the committee members? I know Christine, we've talked about a couple of things regarding the work you're doing on the the committee. Right. There's a I'm forming a committee for um uh to look at standing up a framework for rental assistance and
scholarships. So, a number of past Carlile residents have generously bequeathed funds to the town to disperse. Um and we have not had a formal framework for dispersing those funds so that they're dispersed in a you know
fair and um you know open meet law compliant way. um you know we have a committee forming that is um going to draw up that framework. So I have a charter that I've drafted. I've uh um nominated several folks who will be
approved um or will come before the select board on August 26th and for approval um and if they are approved then um we will start our work in September drawing up that framework. Good. Thank you. Hey Christine, can I ask you a quick
question? Sure. Um it's great that you're moving ahead on this. Um so for this committee, the charter um is that is that something you're going to bring to the select
board at the next meeting to um review and approve? I will circulate the uh draft charter as part of the packet information. And I've uh also started asking the nominees for a bio, just a short paragraph bio for a
backgrounder that can be included as well. Yeah. Um, do you know if have you had any contact I know Gretchen's away on vacation this week, but have have you um had any contact with her prior about the
generally, you know, we publicize that in this case, you know, a new committee is forming to work on this and giving people the opportunity to um submit a letter of interest. So, she and I spoke on this twice um
that I know of. She has not publicized it, but I'm certainly open to anyone who wants to raise their hands. Uh, I'll get with her and if anyone else wants to join our crew, uh, you know, very happy to put their names in front of the select board for approval as well.
Um, yeah, I mean, if if he hasn't publicized it, you know, I think our policy is actually um that it's got to be two weeks, I think. Did people remember what the minimum is? and that it it could be have run in the mosquito.
I I'm not trying to slow things down, but I do think given some past uh concerns about how people, you know, get on a committee that it would be important to follow the So perhaps an important clarification here is that this is not truly a committee there. We would hand off this
framework to whoever is going to be the committee and they would make the awards of funds. Mhm. So maybe it's better maybe it's better not to call it a committee then. Okay. Maybe this is a you know your working group or something. It's a working group. Yeah. Because I think it gets confusing
then about um you know whether you you know volunteers being appointed to it because I think wouldn't this be the case? I'm directing this to Aubrey and the rest of the board. If it's a working group that Christine is pulling together, she doesn't have to um come to
the select board and have those people nominated and approved, does she? So, it's not the name that matters. So, it it even if you call it a working group, it's just how it's formed. So, you have to be careful of making sure the select board isn't creating this.
So, you know, usually it would be a staff member if they created a group because they're doing their job and they're just asking for help to do that job. Then that's one thing, but it, you know, it just has to be it's it's not really the name as much as I think we making sure it's not created by an
appointing authority that's subject to open meeting law because then that's also subject to open meeting law. M and I I know there have been committees in the past where they we've just I don't know what the distinction is necessarily where the select board has just appointed the people like the ARPA committee was not a public
I think hit on the sens point I can't remember did we want this to be subject to OML or not because wasn't the idea that we do oh so you're not worried about this is like scholarship stuff and it is yeah did not bring this up as a needs to be publicized kind of thing so
I she said go form a group so I went if it's not If it's not a committee created by the select board, it's just it's just how it's formed that matters more than the the name of it. So, we have to You're saying Aubrey that it's fine for
Christine to pull together a group on her own? I don't think so. I don't think so. Yeah, it would have to be Aubrey or Yeah, I would say it would really I would recommend being I think it's too late for that because we I agree. We really tried to create a process. You're Mr. Process.
Yeah, I think we did it. We have minutes. We told Christine to go do it. She's doing it. It's We got to approve them and subject to all. Let's just be But I I don't if she's pulling together a committee or whatever we want to call it to shape the process that the
alternate committee is going to use. That's different. That's what she's talking about though. That is true. you're you're designing a process for so if you end up in that process recommending that the TA form a group and that's the
recommendation then yes then that group could be a a working group formed by an administrator by a so this preliminary step is just to create the framework the process ensure that the okay but that's your charter so let's
just without getting too detailed I think we established it. We had a we had a select board member volunteer to create it. She's creating it. Those whatever Barney said about the notice in the paper, blah blah blah, the people come, we approve the people. They have
an they have OML meetings and then whatever the recommendation is, that would be the next step. The only the only snag is we won't be able to do this on the 26th if we have to advertise it for two weeks. Okay, fair enough. That's correct. So, and a little bit like
were on the board I don't know maybe four years ago when um we wanted to uh consider um paisy throw at the you know for the town and we the select board created the transfer
station I forgot what we called it but um that we we set up a committee and who's charged doesn't matter to figure out what we should be doing in
terms of promoting recycling right at the transfer station. They came back eventually made a report to the select board and then they were disbanded and then the new actual ongoing transfer. So I think the select board does have to take it as a that we're creating a
committee for now. Okay. Okay. Do you have some timing constraints relative to what you're trying to accomplish? No, no, there's we can we can advertise. Let's follow up with with Gretchen and Ryan when they're back so we can just figure out the make sure it's the right process.
Anyway, if you want to advertise it, but you should get on to advertising it if it's a twoe notice or whatever. What's advertising? Yeah. Yeah. Um, with Gretchen being out this week. Yeah. It's going to a little bit. Okay. Leazison reports continue. So
before I do, I just noticed and I was reading this thing closer. There is one typo in the minutes at the bottom of the seven page seven of eight. I'll just enter to the record because some Gretchen or somebody edits. John Valentine is noted as John Valentine is
noted as John Valentine which is you know a nice name actually. You might prefer that but different person different person. Okay. But anyway it or not? Do we need to do that? I don't think we'll just we'll we'll correct it. Just a typo. Uh so Aubrey and I had the
pleasure of getting grilled by the planning board last night about the TA bylaw and I'll cite from my memory. I didn't wasn't taking notes. I think Aubrey was so she'll have more detailed input. But the the two things that well
there was some dissatisfaction with it you know and sort of buyers remorse perhaps because they had supported it earlier I think the planning board had buyers remorse. Yeah, some members did I believe and uh the two uh there were some questions which
Aubrey may remember but the two central comments that I recall are number one and I think we went back and forth on this that in the case of performance review or disciplinary action or some action involving the
staff professional that the select board and the board the other board would I think they used the word consent. I think they had volunteered at one point or one of the committees had said the two boards would consent or agree on an action and in the final version it was
actually we would they would cons we would consult them so it was weaker and they didn't like that. So that was one and I remember we debated that. The other one uh was um that they thought it that the language should be clearer with
regard to prior make it clearer that for example the town administrator would not prioritize or direct the technical work of the say in this case the town planner which we assured him is not the case but they didn't think the language was clear enough and then Aubrey what do you
when you say the language do you mean in the in the memo that went out? No, in the bylaw. In the bylaw itself. Yeah. Right. Did they have an actual objection though when you say that that Well, they just recommended that it be clarif I mean they understood some members expressed concern that a
rogue, you know, it's the same old thing. A rogue TA could decide say Julie go work on sorting pencils. Don't do this other thing that there wasn't a there wasn't an accusation that that is happening. No, not at all. Not at all. and they acknowledged th those members acknowledged perhaps they were
overreacting but nevertheless the sentiment I got was they would prefer that and a question and is Mr. Dively is not here anymore. But I we don't I didn't know whether whatever goes to MGL has to be exactly verbatim what was voted on at town
meeting. Can't change a period or anything. I think you could change a period but they use remember they had to put the language even the old language because now that it's been voted it has to go the way especially because what you're talking about is more of a context.
Okay. So you're you're it's a mood issue and what do you recall? Sure. Yeah, you're you're spot on. I think um they wanted more clarification on certain processes. I I was trying to be there to be an HR representative of what the processes would look like, but I kind of got pulled into the policy
questions as well. Uh but yeah, so they they want to make sure that you know with everything else, it still refers to our personnel policies, right? Like everything else aligns with the personnel policies. It's just making clear it's just these HR processes themselves, right? So, more to
the memo. Well, helping with the recruitment, the hiring, you know, um any sort of disciplinary um if there's potential termination, anything like that, just making sure that, you know, everybody in town hall is held accountable in the same way. And I I did explain that, but
they they wanted to make sure that that was clear in the memo as well. I don't know what we can do with the bylaw at this point, but um that's a policy question. And so if you have the right policies in place and they're, you know, administered correctly, then you should be right. So I think, right, thank you for
jiggling my memory. I I think it'd be it is good drafting practice typically to not if you're going to reference another policy, in this case, a personnel policy, you should just reference it, not try to replicate it in the memo because you might get crosswise with the
actual, you know. So I think the memo certainly can be edited and it and you even weren't sure whether we had completed we have a full revamped personnel policy or we still have some work. Well, we still have some more work to
do. So So that update will be in there. I think that what will be in the bylaw can be different than what is drafted in the personnel policies. So we can clarify that in those policies and it should reference the policy by policy section not right. And I I understand where they say, you know, they say, you know, they
were asking, well, what does a grievance mean? You know, those specific things, just making sure that they understand how the process uh differs between different departments depending on who they're reporting to. Yeah, that's um that's another labor law
question that we could perhaps ask Donna Brewer sometime. To me, when I see the word grievance, I immediately go to collective bargaining and a particular specific action that a member of a collecting bargaining unit uses when they feel that we've broken,
you know, the employer has broken that agreement or violated that agreement. And they the word grievance or grieve is used in the policy in a non-union sense, which maybe in in English it's perfectly okay, but I don't in the bylaw though. No, no, this is all in the memo. I'm
just saying. Yeah. So there's some cleanup I guess that you know that and so maybe a lot of it can be addressed in the personnel policy themselves. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. So I mean but that's if you're ever talking to council just generally for the policy, right? My own feeling is
we should avoid using the grieve or grievance in a non collective bargaining case because it has a very specific meaning in it and it could be confused. You're agreved by it. I'm now agrieved. Anyway, that was it. Thank you.
Thank you. Any other updates? Well, we there was a select board meeting that we held on Monday. Oh, yeah. We Yeah, we held the select board meeting on Monday. We had the we we toured the fire station. Oh, okay. When we Barney and I had a
separate under the radar meeting. Well, you had a separate tour of the West Fire Station. We had Well, you went to the the this one here. No, no, we went to the West, but because there were three of us, we it was a meeting. So, we open the meeting. We have minutes that we will ultimately have to
publish and vote on, but uh we just were able to tour the facility and it was quite a facility. Yeah, we I think u it was very nice of Matt. Did he was he your tour guide as well? Yeah. So, he did a really nice job and we're fortunate we have a guy with
such experience on our staff was great. I guess it shows you what my my takeaway was. First of all, it was pretty well thought out, even though if he did it today, it would be a little different, right? Um, but it also, and I'm sure these guys would agree somewhat, that
it shows you sort of what 15 or 15 to 20 million will buy. I mean, I think it cost them 12 in the day, but to me, that's like 14.8 in 2018. Okay, so there you go. So I think it
shows us at the upper end of our range what what one could get. I think it's gone up more than that though. I think that fire station today I didn't realize it was 14 over would be over 20 probably closer to 25. Yeah because it's Right. Fair enough because I think it was 21,000 square feet or something like that. So doing
the thousand per square foot math. Yep. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Um but and even then as you mentioned it's like we do this differently today. This is a modern station but this has changed. So Right. Um, good. Any other liaison reports?
Okay, we have about 8 minutes before 8:15. So, let's move on to proclamations. So, the first proclamation, I attended the um India US flag raising ceremony on the town town
common a couple of weeks ago on a Sunday. Um, we've done this for uh many years. We were Carlile was one of the first towns to participate in this and it's essentially just a an honoring and celebration of India and the US. Um and
it's it's a you know it's it's a nice event where they they they bring their own flag pole. They raise the India flag. We u the national anthem is performed. There's some cultural events. Um and then they lower the flag and and uh and take it with them. So uh we did
that. Um and there was a we usually do a proclamation before that but in this case the timing was such that um we couldn't do the proclamation ahead of time. So India day is coming up on August 15th and in the packet there was a proclamation for that that um looking
for select board approval on and we can take that one first if anyone wants to uh make a motion to Sorry, let me get in front of me. There we go. Here's the motion if someone wants to make it.
Sure. Move that the select board recognize and proclaims August 15, 2025 as India Day in the town of Carlile. Second. Second. Okay. Any discussion or deliberation? Second. Yeah, we'll do the next one.
Okay. Let's do a roll call vote starting with you, Barney. Arnold. Arnold. I Modell I Snell I Stevens I Triola I and I'll note that was my second flag raising in three days. Um and we'll talk about that in the town
report, but that followed the Carile town flag raising at the state house which was a very nice That wasn't raising. Well, yes, David, you're we should have brought our own flag pole. I have a picture of it there. It looks kind of We raised it. How do we get those those pictures to
us? I was trying to pull them out of the PDF. United who took you like I can be great. Well, I don't know if I have I tried to copy them. So, the second proclamation in the packet is in regard to proclaiming the month of October 2025 as conquered
Carile Foundation Month in the town of Carile. And I believe this is something we've done in the past as well. Um I don't know if anyone has any more specifics on this one. Any questions or comments or if someone wants to make the
motion? I'll make a motion. Moved that the select board recognize and proclaims the month of October 2025 as conquered Carlile Foundation Month in the town of Carile. Second. Okay. Any discussion or deliberation?
Seeing none, we'll do a roll call vote. Arnold I. Modell I. Snail I. Stevens I. Triola I. Thank you very much. Uh, we have five minutes. I don't want to start the fire station early just given public interest. So, uh, cemetery deed transfer
requests. There you go. Let's hit that one. Um, we have a number of deeds. There's a motion in the packet for two, four, six deeds. Any commentary on this?
I do not have any. No. I move to transfer land. Hold on one second. Sorry. Go ahead, Barney. It's just a a small uh spelling issue, but if you go down to um the third one, deed 850. Yep.
Uh I don't know if this got corrected on the deed itself, but it it says Barbara Harking, and it's Barbara Harkkins. Oh, we're going to lose the Yes. I'll make sure that that's amended.
Thank you, Barney. Um Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Really? Sure. There we go. We just lost it. Okay. All right. So, is that that'll be amended? Yes, that. Okay. I might I might mean having Gretchen
help. Okay. Just make sure it's an appropriate We can approve the deeds with as amended. Okay. So, okay. I'd move to transfer land in the public burial ground at the Green Cemetery described as deed 848, lot D392,
grave one to Annie Annne Herd. Deed 849, lot D 352, graves 1 through 4 to Hong May S and Eric Miller. Deed 850, lot D32, graves 1 and two to Michael Simmons
and Barbara Harkin. Uh, deed 851, lot D 150, graves three and four to Benjamin Gould. Deed 852, lot D4, graves 1 through four to William and Vera Ty. And deed 853, lot D 151, grave
2 to Kevin and Marty Hagerty. Mary, oh, sorry, Mary. Sorry, Mary Hagerty. Yes. All right. Do we have a second? Second. Any discussion or deliberation? Seeing none, let's take a roll call vote. Arnold I. Modell I.
Snell I. Stevens I. Triola I. And then are we going to be signing them tonight? Yes. Yes, I have. Okay. All right. That's it for cemetery deeds. I think we're close enough. So it is one I have one short issue since two minutes. Yep.
So um onboarding is August 19th. Yes. Uh I had volunteered with Aubrey to present a slide about basically how one can manage um kind of situation we're talking about TA by lo
staff who report to the how the boards work together and how they manage staff and uh and I am actually going to take my son to a college tour meeting that night. I cannot do it. I'm happy to prepare the slide, consult with you, but I need a volunteer for that night to do
that to do that part. August 19th. It's the Tuesday night. Next Tuesday. Yeah. I'm planning to be there anyway, David, because of the LSC meeting after. Okay. Somebody else wants to do it. I was going to, you know, just observe the training anyway.
Okay. So, I can work up a slide with you. Uh, you know, we can talk to Aubrey. So, that'd be great. Thank you. And I'm sorry to miss it because I like that to go to that myself. But all right, thank you. Okay, so we're going to move on to the
Tecton Fire Station presentation. And before we do that, I did want to acknowledge um that John Lavy had sent around his public comment for tonight. I think we've all received it and read it. I want to acknowledge that receipt um
and also ensure that his public comment in the form of the email is included in the record and the minutes. So we will ensure that that happens. Um so with that I I know Matt I think I see you out there. Can you make Matt
co-host because he's going to be doing the presentation. Um, and then if there's any I don't know, Chief, if you want to Chief, Deputy Chief, I don't know if you guys want to come up to the the front to potential comment and question.
And with that, Matt, I'll I think you should have control if you want to take it from here. All right. Can you see my screen? Yes. Excellent. All right. Um, good evening everybody. Uh, appreciate, uh, the invite to the,
uh, board meeting this evening. Uh, and I also appreciate you accommodating me with remote participation today. I had a personal issue at home and was not able to be there in person, and I apologize for that, but I do appreciate your accommodations um, with remote participation. Um, for those of you that
don't know me uh, in in the town, uh, my name is Matt Salad. I'm a senior team leader and project manager with Tekk Architects and we've been working with the town of Carile and the fire department on a feasibility and conceptual design for a renovation in addition to the fire station and uh I
have a rather lengthy presentation that I want to move through um quickly. We have a lot of material to cover um predominantly I've divided the presentation up into four sections. Uh we're going to provide the select board a brief update on the insight investigations that were conducted over
the past month. Uh we're going to review the space needs summary and assessment that we've conducted. Uh we've provided some detail and we'll go through uh sort of department by department. Um what each of the spaces that are incorporated into that space need assessment are the
reasons why they're part of the project. Then we'll review some uh additional design options. We provided some uh several months ago. Uh we've since uh revised the space needs assessment based on the uh fire apparatus advisory committee's uh recommendations that were
accepted by the select board a couple of weeks ago. And uh and then we'll just touch briefly on what the next steps are to move the project um from today to special town meeting in November. Um so with that, I'll jump right into
the site investigations update. Um so uh we were uh we had an additional uh scope of services provided to us through Springtown meeting uh to provide some detailed site assessments of the the property including percolation tests for
um feasibility of expansion of the septic system should that be required. um geotechnical analysis and borings looking at the subsurface strata of the site and and understanding its bearing capacity where um the water table is
where there's boulders or ledge um and unsuitable fill or bearing of a building. Uh we also did a topolog topographical and boundary survey. Um that work uh has been completed but we haven't received the survey yet. They're still putting that. Um and then we also
did a wetlands delineation. And so I'll start first with the wetlands delineation. Um this is an aerial overview of of what that result is. This is being incorporated into that site survey. So it'll be comprehensive that'll get filed with the town once
it's been completed. What you'll see here is uh a green line on the left side of the screen that's delineating the wetlands. Um and then we have a small delineation of wetlands between town hall and the fire station. And this blue line indicates uh essentially an
intermittent stream. Um so this is essentially um within line with what's been previously understood on the site and what's been indicated on GIS. So there's no new information to provide with this. This is sort of confirming the existing conditions there on site
for wetlands. Uh as far as the per percolation tests go, uh the board of health was there to witness uh that testing. Um they it was noted that the existing leech field is in an area of general fill predominantly
of lomy sand which is not suitable for a leech field. Um until we determine the ultimate sizing of the septic system with this project, um we won't know if we need to expand the system or not. So it's sort of leave it as is as as today
is and uh should we need to make uh changes to it or expand it, we will need to conduct some additional testing of that soil material to further analyze uh its suitability for use. Um so it it's not uh by the spec of what we would want
to see for a leeching field, but um additional testing can confirm its suitability and and we would recommend doing that once we determine whether or not little each field needs to be modified, increased or or redesigned. Uh the environmental uh we also did a
phase one environmental uh site assessment. This looks at uh past records uh including um with mass DP um to see if there's been any any areas of concern uh of contaminants on the on the property itself. Um this is something
that's required of us to do before we do any construction work. Um certainly understandable if a contractor is digging a hole in the ground and there's lead or oil spills or asbestous and things like that. We want to know about it ahead of time. Um so we did conduct
uh that assessment and there were no major surprises that were that were raised. Um the only thing that was noted is the existing oil water separator that is in use is not currently performing as as intended. Um, and so there is a potential risk that if there is a large
discharge of contaminated materials like oil or or gas or diesel fuel, um, that that could make its way through the water separator down into the into the wetland or out onto the site that would be addressed as part of this project. Um, then there also was uh record of a
of a couple of fuel spills uh back in the past. Um, those were addressed and cleaned up and and those problems have been mitigated. Um lastly uh we did conduct the geo uh preliminary geotechnical uh assessment. We we wanted to get a snapshot of the
whole area in which work could be conducted. So what you'll see is these uh red uh blue circles. These are indicating where our test pits were were uh or borings were dug. Um, this is essentially a a drill rig comes in with an augur, drills a hole in the ground,
goes as deep as it can until it can't go any further because it encounters something that won't allow it to drill through like ledge or boulders. Um, and what you'll see is we have five borings. One, two, three, four, and five. You'll
see a smattering of borings around three that we conducted. Um that was because as we were getting uh through some of the shallow depths we were we were hitting boulders um as well. Can you um Matt Matt? Yes. Can you go back or where's the
where's the existing building in that the existing building is this blue square here. That is the green is indicating where the septic system is in the leech field. These are the tents at the back of the site. Okay, I got it. I I I got it. Okay. Thank you. Yep.
Um and so the big things are um predominantly uh we were able to extend the borings between a depth of four and 21 feet. So four feet is sort of the magic number is the bottom of our footings for a traditional uh spread footing. A majority of the soils seem to have good bearing capacity for
traditional spread footing. So we wouldn't see the need for doing anything like piles or rack or peers. Basically a more costly uh structural foundation system. boring one, which was that one sort of between town hall and the existing fire station. Uh that was done
about 20 30 feet off of the um eastern edge of the building right on the apparatus off the apparatus base. Uh we did encounter organics about 4 feet below grade. So any work in that area that's going to bear building that those organics will have to probably be
removed and replaced with uh suitable structural fill in the future. Um and then as I noted CF3 those um which were which were these to the west we did encounter um what appears to be a series of boulders. So any excavation there uh
we'll have to manage appropriately. Any questions on any of the existing conditions assessments? Yeah. Can you go back to the map please? So based on that have you I mean you have these limiting factors. So you've got the wetlands, you've got the
wellhead, you've got underground lines, but I guess those could be moved or, you know, utilized. But how how is the sha site shaping up relative to what you thought? Are there any things that have limited its use that you had anticipated
when you did your first kind of proposals to us? No. No. The only the only area of challenge, let me go back to the wetlands delineation. The only area of challenge on the site is is this section of the wetland delineation. Um,
essentially uh the existing extent of paving is is within the is right on the edge of the 50 foot buffer outside of that wetland delineation. Um and and some of our some of our schemes were were sort of between the 50 and 100
foot buffer for where we're showing the building and we can we can show you that when we get into that is the green and the blue the actual wetland or the setback line the actual and you have to go inboard of that by
X amount. Correct. Well, we don't currently have a my understanding is the wetland bylaw in Carlile doesn't have a distance from the wetland. You can build probably going to
pursuant to approval by Conscom, but you could I don't think there's a no build provision. Maybe someone else has more. Isn't that what they're proposing though? They are proposing that. So, would it be so I thought it was a I thought we had a 50 foot buffer right now and they want to
propose a 100 foot. Well, my again, we should confirm this. My understanding is they have jurisdiction within 100 ft, but I don't think we have a definitive no build. We have a an informal policy that they've they've I Yeah, but would we really build a
1015 million building with an appending bylaw and not plan for its implementation? seems to know. So, I I think there's there's there's conversations that are to be had. Um
it's it's until we have the the final survey back with those points uh incorporated onto the under the survey plan. Uh it's premature to to start those conversations with the conservation commission. Once we have them, we'll start engaging with them and and having conversations about what what
would be practical, what would not be practical. Matt, can I ask you a related question? So, uh, the, uh, proposal that you shared last time had, uh, you know, an
extra sort of adjacent building down. My question is, is that still in an area that would not be problematic from the standpoint of the wetlands delineation? It is. Yeah, it's it's outside of that that 100 foot buffer. That's okay. Our
plan is to stay um out of that for for especially because that's undisturbed woodland. Um the area that we're talking about potential encroachment on the 100 foot buffer is is in an area of previous disturbance. So it's it's already paved. We're not making the condition any
worse. And and that is that's often um seen as as something that's approvable by by a conservation commission. They are not under any obligation to approve it, but um it it's it's it's worth a conversation and a discussion to see
where um where where that would be practical. Thank you. Great. Thank you. All right. All right. So, now I'll jump into the space needs assessment. Um, some of this
is is information you've seen, you you uh we presented at the at our first select board hearing back in the spring. Um, and then we've expanded on it further um to provide additional information. Um, so a little bit of just where we've
where we've been. Um, so in February, we conducted our initial space needs assessment interviews with fire leadership with the fire department. Um from that uh uh late in February and early in March, we developed an initial program and some block diagram options.
Um we also developed uh additional space needs uh programs. Um as you recall the the initial option, the sort of wish list was was in the $30 million range and and wasn't practical um for the town of Carile. So we did provide additional
alternative schemes for that and and we'll revisit those. Uh we also conducted uh fire membership surveys of of uh as many of the fire uh firefighters that did as we could and uh re reviewed those draft program options
with them. We then held a uh virtual space planning chet with fire leadership in the beginning of April and then ultimately presented those findings the following week to the select board. Um and as if you recall, these were the three options that we had presented uh
at that meeting. Um the initial option, which was that wish list, was in the 27 to $30 million range, just under 30,000 square feet. We had a second option that was closer to the $10 million range. Uh and then we had a 14 to$16 million range
um option. Um it was sort of discussed that you know the program the programmatic needs that were in option three were were more amendable to the fire department as as a reduction
from their initial wish list. So we we started working from that um from that initial spacings assessment as our as our starting point moving forward from that meeting. Beyond that in June uh we received additional authorization to pro proceed with the site investigations that I
summarized uh in the first section of this presentation. uh those commenced the first week of July and we received our preliminary results um over the past two weeks and um and as I noted we are we are awaiting the final um one the final report from the geotech but also
the um the site survey um CAD file in the the certified for that um between the month of June and August uh we coordinated and participated with the um fire apparatus advisory subcommittee
um and they presented their findings to the select board on July 22nd. From July 22nd, we received direction to provide additional design options um with the fire apparatus advisory committee's recommendations and uh we've
been working on those over the past couple of weeks and we'll we'll get to those later on in the presentation. So here's a snapshot of the space needs summary um that was sort of modified from that option three and incorporated in the um the the apparatus requirements
from the FAC subcommittee. Um this is broken down into eight categories or um or areas within the building. um public training administrative spaces, space for firefighters and EMTs, apparatus and
training spaces, firematic support which support the fire apparatus uh gear and equipment, building facilities which is your mechanical electrical room, things like that. And then any vertical circulation, um those spaces all add up
to a net square footage. That's the square footage of all the spaces from the inside of wall to inside of wall. Um, we're using a net to gross adjustment of 22% which is which is a modest uh adjustment that incorporates the thickness of walls and chases and
things like that that will that will ultimately be part of the building corridors and the like and that ultimately resulted in about a 17,000 foot program. Now, one of the directions from the select board on the 22nd was to come up with creative solutions for combining space and reducing that over
overall square footage. and we have done that and we'll go over those options uh later on. Matt, just a quick question on the on the needs assessment just so we understand the process to arrive at a particular square foot for an item. Um
is that is that just based on uh any kind of recommended guidelines, conversations with the chief? How do you arrive at say fitness room or conference room or how much storage space you need for the fire equipment? So conference room as an example, um those are
directly dictated by the number of chairs, the number of seats we're trying to put in a conference room. Um there's a there's a fixed dimension for how wide a chair takes up in a table. You expand that out over a number of seats that gives you the size of the table and then we need clearances walking around that
um to circulate. Um same thing with offices. Offices have a specific set number of guidelines for what goes in the office. So, if it's simple, um, like you see here for office number two for the deputy chiefs at 144 square feet, that's basically a 6x6
workstation, a bookshelf, and some file cabinets and a couple of guest chairs. Um, for the chief's office, you're looking at some additional file cabinets in there. Typically, there's a a fourperson uh table where you can have a small meeting um or or uh a discussion
with somebody um and then and then some additional file book storage and things like that. So, so every space that goes in here, the square footages aren't arbitrary. They're directly dictated from the use and from what materials need to be stored or accessed within
that space in particular. And there's a supplement document to the space needs assessment that we had provided previously that has what's called the room description. And it goes through uh at length of all the requirements for each one of these spaces and what goes in that. And the combination of of all
those requirements uh is is what ultimately generates the size of the room. So I wanted to add another uh a couple of other uh standards and guidelines that we can reference and and and talk about. Um the first is is the NFPA has
listed a number of primary objectives and guidelines uh specifically uh related to fire stations both career and uh volunteer and and we've we've indicated them here involving uh life and property uh timely emergency
response uh firefighter safety and wellness operational readiness training qualifications community risk reduction and prevention incident management and inter agency coordination. Um, in addition to that, there's a number of guidelines from NFPA, the US
Fire Administration, and OSHA um that dictate a number of requirements, guidelines, and standards related to a fire station in particular. And this is pretty comprehensive in all the different types of spaces that they provide guidance on. uh for example the
apparatus base uh NFPA recommends accommodating emergency vehicles and equipment with at least three to five feet of clearance for safe egress exhaust removal systems and and they prefer drive-through bays if possible. Um, the US Fire Administration gets into talking about the finishes that go into
a fire uh, apparatus bay. And, um, I don't want to go through all this because we'll be here all night, but um, we can we can certainly expand on some of these and reference back to them um, should we need to. They also get into recommendations for physical fitness,
including workout rooms, um, space for increasing cardiovascular strength and and flexibility training. These are all things that help prevent on the job uh train uh injuries. Um they also can help prevent um stress related uh injuries
that come after a call. Um, you know, I've spoken to the chief about this and and one of his biggest concerns is um the amount of anxiety and angst when you come back from a from a difficult call and being able to to go into the gym and and and work out and and exercise that
cardiovascular system to help expend some of that that anxiety really actually helps reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease uh in the future. Uh they also recommend specific living quarters and the requirements that go along with that including kitchens,
bunks, day rooms um in and in in areas for for decompression um as well. And then they also recommend administrative areas for office space for for a number of different functions. So what do we know about your building today? Right. Um I think the majority if
not all the select board now had an opportunity to tour the building. um simply isn't sized to to provide the adequate space needed for a modern fire service. Right? The apparatus bays are are crowded. All of the gear is stored on the fire floor. They're not stored in in specific rooms that are that are
ventilated and separated. Um and that overcrowding creates certain risk to the firefighters as they're responding to a call. as well as keeping um a lot of that gear that's been cleaned and decontaminated in a space where they can be recontaminated by exhaust fumes and other carcinogens that are coming off of
the gear. Um so that also impacts your firefighter health in the station itself. Um firefighter training, you know, this is this is critical to safe operations. This is something that um we're seeing OSHA become more and more concerned with and find more and more
jurisdictions with um with violations. making sure that we're properly training our firefighters to to be out there um is critically important and and this isn't just about the room uh to conduct classes. It's about on on hands training. And I know Scott, you part
participated uh observing one of these, you know, in the field trainings that the fire department conducted and and they're they're quite complicated operations and uh you can imagine the the the criticality of being able to perform those those maneuvers when you're when you're facing a structure
fire or some other incident response. Um and then and then live workspaces, right? This is both for creating a sense of camaraderie and physical preparedness, but it's also a really good amenity for growth and recruitment and retention of of firefighters,
especially when they're volunteers. Um, so these are just some examples that we've provided in the past of of moderate facilities and you the Westward Fire Station, which is which is a great example of that. Um, you know, clean apparatus bays that are stored in
vehicles and nothing else. proper training facilities for classroom instruction, but also on the job training. Um, areas that are separated from the fire floor. Um, this image on the bottom left is is is a is a compressor that fills the air packs that they that they wear
when they go into a fire. The one that they have now in in the station is on the fire floor, right? So, it's so it's it's requiring filters to to circulate air from the fire floor into those air packs. And it really should be in its own space using using dedicated air. um
that's that's clean and and safe and then again proper live work environments for for the firefighters. So when we talk about um some of the public spaces, right, we've there's just a few uh rooms dedicated to this and that's that's allowing the public
potential access to the training room. So that's a vestibial a modest lobby and a couple of a couple of restrooms. We've also provided uh the training room uh for the fire department and you know should that be used by the public as well that that would be adjacent to the
lobby and that training room has a small storage space associated with it. Our initial program we had we had worked out a 50 person training room uh as part of the cost reductions that's been reduced to 30 persons. I uh that was also part
of a recommendation from the MRI report, but I would note that that will not accommodate the entire roster of uh volunteer firefighters um that you currently have uh which is over 40. So um it we can provide a modern facility that'll support 30 people within this
program, but um it won't support a single classroom training for the entire uh membership here in this building. Matt, does that training room have So it's desks and chairs for everyone for every person that's listen like 30 people. Correct. Yeah, tables and chairs
and then there'd be a lectern at the front of the room. So certainly you could fit more people in there um if you were if you took the tables away and just did chairs um or did tablet arms um or stand your room only. Um, so
there's there's there's certainly ways to pack more people into the room should you need to. Um, but for for a 4hour classroom training, not not having a a desk to and a chair to sit at is would certainly be challenging.
Matt, what I don't know if you can even answer this, but what what was the savings I suppose for lack of a better word in reducing it from 50 to 30? It was about 300 square feet. So, I think the the back of the napkin
number we've been throwing around for rough order magnitude and cost is is about $1,000 per square foot. And Matt, before we get too far into numbers, because I'm sure you know the the the uh the urge is to always say how much money is this saving? But the
caveat to all this is this has not gone to a cost estimator. So this is when you when you say $1,000 a square foot, that's just that's just just a gross number that um if we if we have support for a for a particular scheme or option, it would then go to a cost estimator. We
would actually get a an actual a more refined estimate, not certainly not what you'd get from a schematic or a final cost. But just I just want to clarify like when we're talking about numbers, these are very rough estimates. Yep. Exactly. Yeah, these are these are these are nothing I would take to town meeting or advertises.
No, of course not. But how how much off of Matt a thousand square feet is it likely to be? I mean, you can get 90% there in a with your eyeball, right? I mean, I I get it, but it's it's more nuanced than that,
especially when we're dealing with varying degrees of renovation, addition, and new construction. Um, and it's and it's it's the kind of thing where, you know, if if you if you take the whole building and say it's $1,000 per square foot and then you you reduce one room out of that.
Yeah. You don't necessarily get $1,000 per square foot back as as a reduction. I know that, but I'm at the macro level. The room itself is is only a percentage of the components that go into the building, right? So, if we if we reduce a couple hundred feet out of a training room,
we're not making the system smaller. We're not making the electrical systems that much smaller. I mean, those are large components of the building itself, right? So, you're not going to dev right. So, but let me ask a dumb question. This 17,000 square ft. Is that what it
was? Or I'm sorry, something like that. Is that that doesn't include the existing that's additional to or that's including the reno of the current? Yeah. Which is these are these are not these are not indicative of what's renovation or additions. this is this is indicative of
what the space needs are and then as they as we lay that out um onto the site plan and and develop for plan that'll define what's sort of in the existing building what's a new construction so some of it is rening existing building Matt can you just can you back up to the
photos that you had there of the new right there so one of the things as you talk about the square footage I I you know have really come to appreciate how much square footage is really needed did and especially if we're going to keep our on call firefighting force though
when we do these estimates there's a huge variety and variability of the level of finish that is required or needed. So, if you look at the bottom right there and you look at the level of finish and detail there, that's an
expensive proposition as far as the designer cabinets, the designer, you know, things. When we went through the Westford fire station, I noticed there were four stainless steel built-in refrigerators. They're 15,000 each. That's $60,000
of refrigeration for, you know, the thing. And I'm not I I think yeah, you probably need those. And I'm not saying you don't put in four refrigerators for what or whatever, but you may not need to do them in stainless steel and such.
And I think that, you know, if I was looking through this, I would say, you know, we want to have the the actual things we need, but we may not need to have them designer goldplated things. And I think that you have to design you
have to take that approach as you're designing this and as you're estimating it. Um and and Matt, you're going to be the point person on that. So I I don't know just as an individual on the select board, I would feel like I want to make sure we get what we need, but I don't
think we need to, you know, we can have offtheshelf refrigerators that we're getting it. You know, I'm using that as an example. Yeah. But I would say you know for my own and I'm going through the nightmare right now actually MEP mechanical electrical plumbing
drives 75% of the cost. The complicated stuff is as you mentioned the and I looked at it and it was a nice thank you Matt for the very this Matt for the very comprehensive tour. You know, you just think about the electrical service and
where it has to be and all the kind of plumbing of fluids and the valving and the controls of it. You know, that's all where the big money is going to be spent. No matter what refrigerator you use, you could use a old ice all the way through. You have the ability and I think our fire department,
especially I think our chief has done a great job of being very efficient with, you know, the type of fixtures and stuff. And so to the extent we can you know have him or have people involved and take that approach rather than say cart blanch design whatever you want and build this
I of course agree with that you know I'm just trying to set a tone here more than I agree in my opinion. Yeah. I I appreciate the comment and I I would just add that um there's there's a there's a difference in residential construction versus public commercial
construction in that when you're doing a renovation on your house, when you're you know doing a kitchen or something like that square footage isn't really the driver of the cost, it's the fish. I I agree with you there. When when you're dealing with municipal construction, um as as Mr. to what El pointed out, the
MEP systems, you know, almost account for 50% of it, especially in a public safety building. Um, and especially in a fire station, we're dealing with, you know, really complex HVAC systems in order to create those safe environments in those living areas and and and that's
what drives the cost. Now, there's certainly premiums to to premier finishes and and that certainly isn't appropriate for for this project. Um, I would be more focused on maintainable and durable finishes for for a project like this that that aren't going to need
to be replaced often and um it can be done so in an easy fashion. Okay. Um but but the but the finishes aren't going to be they're not going to be the major driver of cost. Okay. Thank you.
All great questions. Um so um also when we talk about training just another another point to make is um you know there's there's certainly opportunities to incorporate active
training um components within within the structure itself. So, so here's an example here where on the back side of the apparatus phase, um, we have a mezzanine and on top of that mezzanine, we've we've we've put windows and and some and some hooks and things like that
so that the firefighters can actually do training evolutions within the space itself at at almost no cost. So, we always we always look to find ways to incorporate training into the building that doesn't increase cost. U, it's just it's just a win-win um for the fire
department and for the mun municipality. And that way they can they can go from the drill floor on the fire floor, they go right into the classroom and and and understand, you know, what went wrong, what went better, and and then go back out and repeat and make sure that they're doing things appropriately.
So, as it relates to to training, um, right, um, there's been a real initiative to push for more training, and it's it's resulted in a decline in fire related deaths over the last 10 years. that's that's cited from the American Fire Service. So, it it is critically
important um not just for making sure that we're saving structures and saving lives out in the community but protecting the lives of our of our first responders. So when we look at the administrative offices, um
so as part of our uh reductions in in square footages that we've worked through the past few months, um we had a series of of of office space on the wish list. Um that includes a shared open office that
include that had captain's office space, an EMS coordinator, a fire prevention workspace, as well as a lieutenant workspace. um we've eliminated those out of the program um in order to to cut costs and reduce square footage. Um that can certainly be coordinated through uh
sort of shared workstations in the training room or or in the day room or something like that. But this leaves us essentially with the chief's office, the deputy chief's office in an administrative assistant. Um a small record and file storage room that gets a some of the files out of their existing
offices and that are sort of out in the lobby right now. uh a small photocopy area and then an office supply storage room. Um most of the as I noted most of the office space has been consolidated elsewhere within the building um as
multi-purpose spaces um which is not ideal. Um the MRI report actually recommended including four individual workspaces in addition to the private offices to be eliminated from the program. So they're they're actually asking us to go one step further than we
were initially uh anticipating. Um giving separate hoteling workspace for call firefighters separate from bunking and separate from the EMS training officer and command staff reporting areas. Matt process question. I I in terms of
um you know the adjustments or these reductions that you're mentioning just have you been working with the the chief and and fire leadership on these or I just I'm just curious if are you seeing these for the first time or are these these been part of your discussions
along the way? We're seeing them as of very recently. I think you you had discussions with them. You know, I think any chief who says we're going to build a fire station that doesn't have an EMS coordinator office and a fire prevention office, what are
you thinking? We're cutting to the bare bone and we'll we'll try to make things work, but we we will need to work with these try to figure out how to how to make this work, right? But this is you're talking this
is very barebone. Fire prevention is the only thing on the fire side that actually brings in revenue with the permitting and all that. And he's very active on a on a daily basis during the week. So for him not to have a workspace, it's shocking to me
in Carlo. Yeah. Everywhere. But EMS is an enterprise and EMS is the only other thing in the department that brings in revenue. So again, not having an EMS office. Matt and I had a conversation after the last select board meeting where he was tasked
with reducing. So we went line by line and at the end of the conversation I said we were already at the bare bones. So I don't know how you cut more than where we were, but he did make some cuts and
it's it's a little bit scary to me. But to Matt's point, we talked about cutting, but adding an office is not $1,000 a square foot, right? I mean, it's cheap. It's cheap buildout, relatively speaking. So, right. I mean, I'm listening to what they're
saying, I think. So, we need to we need to look at these things. And I think I think one of the key process points just for tonight is that um the like this presentation came in last night, right? I was able to circulate it to the select board in Aubry last night. you got it, I think,
today. Um, and really, you've you've been away and so it still needs some digestion, I think, in terms of people to to look at it. Y, but it's a lot, you know, there's a flow to it. No, I know, but All right, Matt, you know, so one of the kinds of things
that I look at is, you know, the options where you have bunk rooms. Yep. If we're going to cut all these offices out, we need the ability to use a bedroom as an office when we need it that, you know, that week or whatever it is. So, we'll, like you say, we have to
find it. Understood. All right. Um, so these are the firefighter and EMT. These are the amenity spaces for the firefighters. Um, so in that we have a a day room. We've got a kitchen and dining area. Um, we've
got a small trash room, um, a 500 foot fitness room, and, uh, we've got an officer bunk, and then we've got four firefighter bunks. Um, we also have a small laundry and housekeeping area, um, for cleaning clothes and and and um,
cleaning materials for the building um, as well as blankets and and um, things like that for the bunks. Uh, we have two unisex single uh, bathroom showers. And then we uh we have what we're calling lockers in a widened corridor. So
essentially instead of having a dedicated locker room um or increasing the size of the bunk rooms to have wardrobes within them uh or widening the corridor outside of those bunk spaces and putting the wardrobes and lockers out there. It's a more efficient use of
space. Um but it but it does eliminate that locker room and and um so in the MRI report they they did recommend a living area for four to six people with lockers, shower rooms, individual sleeping quarters, a kitchen and a day room space. So that's that's fairly in
alignment there. I would note that the initial program had a fitness room of 800 square feet and so we have reduced that down to 500 and and as I noted the lockers are incorporated above corridor and it's similar to what you would see in a in a school essentially.
A quick question on this. Um, and I'm actually asking Matt Spatech if you could remind us for those that toured the Westford Fire Station, uh, what was the square footage that you showed us in the in the workout room? It was just shy of 500.
Oh, okay. And it was too small. That's my And that was the one that you were describing. Once you had more than two people in there, it was really tight. Correct. Yeah. And I think we're trying to build a culture that attracts and retains on call
and camaraderie of working with members of the department and how much Matt um I don't know either Matt could respond to this at 800 square feet would you say what that accommodates
another two people so you could have four in there training at the same time working out. I mean, conceivably, I mean, certainly it's going to come down to what sort of equipment we're putting in there. Um, yeah, some of those large multi-purpose
machines take up a lot of square footage as opposed to a stepper or or a rowing machine or something like that. So, it's it certainly would come down to some of the equipment that we're going to provide. Okay. Let's keep going. Yep.
Um, and so just some images of of what some of those those areas that we just talked about could could look like. So, uh, area on the left is is is a fitness room, one that has a little bit more gracious space to it, so it allows you to to spread out and have some some room for stretching and things like that and
accommodate more folks. Um, this is this is what a larger bunk room could look like with this is with wardrobes within it, a small desk area so that you could use it as a small office or study and and then your bunk. And then um administrative areas with with areas to
receive the public um and in and private offices as well. Um so you know a lot of those amenity spaces really get down to the recruitment and retention we've been talking about at this you know this whole meeting here. And you know since 1984 the number of volunteer
firefighters has decreased by 25% in the US population since has grown by 40%. This is current as of 2020. It was published by NFPA. Um I I encourage anybody um to Google search um volunteerism in fire departments and in
in fire departments closing across the country as a result of this, leaving their municipalities without a fire service. It's it's touching just about every state um throughout the country. And and there's another one that is closing its doors almost on a weekly or monthly basis. So this is a real
struggle. It's not specific to Carlile. It's it's a national challenge that everybody's dealing with. So, the apparatus floors. Um, so I think I think this one is pretty straightforward. We've updated the square footages based on the equipment that has been recommended in the uh in
the uh fire apparatus advisory committee. Um, the M MRI report also recommends that the bays be large enough to accommodate today's fleet with accommodations for the future. Um, Chief, you and I reviewed this as well this morning, and I don't know if you
want to chime in on one of the pieces of equipment that was discussed, um, in particular, the the future tanker. Yeah. So, they what they did for sizing was they, um, the tanker we are thinking about replacing um, you know, the the
engine 7, they they're they didn't make space for engine 7. They made space for something smaller than that because that may be our future. But it is in our current world. So when we look at it, the size that they gave us is the size for what we're going to have in the
future. And that's just Yeah. So I And if we're going to do that, we need to be very clear as to what size that really is. We'll need to be be clear on that because if we're if
being in a world where you have to buy engines just to fit the space that don't meet your needs very well is a fool's that's just not a fool that's foolish way to to do things. There are towns around us who have to buy engines because their doors are only so high or only so wide and all these kind of things and it's just it doesn't doesn't
end well. So, if we're gonna if we're going to do that kind of, you know, look at every square inch kind of reduction, we need to be very clear as to what sizes we're we're going to need so we don't end up with something that doesn't fit. Is there a trend in fire trucks toward
getting bigger or smaller over time? Um, it was to get bigger, now it is to get somewhat little bit smaller. Um for us there's a similar thing partially because of um you know the people we have driving them
are going to be more used to smaller things and we are trying to get them you know our driveways are longer and they're putting houses in harder and harder places to get to. Mhm. Right. So that's our future. And so some things are going to get
somewhat smaller, but not significantly enough to design a station around that. Yeah. Okay. Um Yeah. And so these are these are just some guidelines for for apparat um noting, you know, marked walking zones, non-slip floors, and and the working clearances
associated with with that. And and as I've noted in the past, um your existing bays are okay, but they're they're 16 foot eight, so they're slightly below the recommended width of of between 18 and 22 feet. Um so they're they're okay,
but um the new bays would would certainly conform to some of these these standards. And and just a note here, the overcrowded apparat space leads to extended response times and certainly puts firefighters at risk when they're responding.
Um and so there's also all the supportive spaces that that accompany the apparatus base. Um these are, you know, a fire station is divided into into three zones, a hot zone, uh a halt zone, and a transition zone between the two. And the idea between uh with that
concept is really isolating any carcinogens and vehicle exhaust and the like to that hot zone, circulating through its transition zone to decontaminate and then ultimately being on the clean zone um where you're safe. Um so it's all about reducing risk uh to
the firefighters uh through that process. Um, so it it comes as no surprise that the CDC notes that firefighters have a 14% higher risk of dying from cancer than the general population and and twice as likely of getting meloma and testicular cancer and
and a lot of others. And and it it runs the gamut of of just about anything you can think of, they're at higher risk. So we want to make sure that we're keeping them safe when they're in those living quarters um so that they're we're reducing that risk. So those supportive spaces that uh
occupy off of the bays to support firefighting operations. Uh we have three storage rooms. One for fire equipment. You know, this is this is pumps and hoses and things like that. Uh one for spare gear. So this is additional sets of of of turnout gear
and and helmets and and masks. Uh we have general storage because, you know, there's there's just a lot of other pieces and components that go under the fire fire trucks that they need to operate. chainsaws and and things like that. Um, we also have a work room. So, this is where a lot of uh small engine
parts and things like that get repaired. This is where the tool chest for for doing any like maintenance on on the apparatus would be stored. Um, we have a fire and EMS decon decontamination room and laundry. So, this is where all of the gear when they're coming back from a
call gets decontaminated. Um, this includes um all their firefighting equipment. So when they come back from a call, they they clean the gear, then it gets stored in um in the turnout gear room. Um and and that way it's it's ready for the next call and and and is
it's has been cleaned from any carcinogens. We also have an EM EMS supply storage room. So this is storing uh a lot of the the medical supplies they would need for a call and a drug room within that that's going to have all the the the different drugs that they're going to have out the ambulance
when responding to a call. We have an SCBA room. So, right now they have a SCBA compressor out on the fire floor. This is going back to that image I'd showed previously about putting that in a dedicated space. Uh, this includes the compressor storage for bottles and decontamination space for their face
masks and and drying uh racks for those masks as well. We have a compressor room. So, this is just taking the uh the air compressor that they use to charge up the the brakes and and do any uh maintenance on the vehicles and things like that. uh that just puts it in a room so it's not
making a bunch of noise on the fire floor. It's going to take up space in the floor. It's going to take space up in a room. So, it just makes sense to to put it in a room so uh you can you can hear every everybody while they're working in and down there and it's not distracting and um causing issues. Uh
then we have our turnout gear room. Uh again, this is this would be uh typically it's connected to the decon so that once you've decontaminated your gear, it's going right into that room and being stored. Uh this is where when the firefighters are responding to a call that they'll come into the building, go to this room, grab their
gear, and uh and and hop on on an engine and go. Um we had a dedicated radio room. Um we we we we took that out and incorporated it into sort of an IT space. Um there are some SKUs where we did get the uh
radio room back in because we had a little bit of of of extra space where we were able to accommodate it. And then we have a restroom within the apparatus space. And that that way when you're when you're working out on the fire floor on a piece of equipment or a piece of apparatus, that way you don't have to go back to the clean sight of the building um without decontaminating to
use to use the restroom. You can sort of stay on the fire floor and and conduct your work. Um MRI also recommended that EMS supplies be stored in an environmentally controlled space um in a clean environment which we're providing. Uh same thing for fire gear. Right. Right
now it's stored out on the fire floor. providing that that room to store the gear. Um, they also noted that there's been a great deal of emphasis on gear in gear storage as it relates to cancer. And again, that's because once it's been cleaned, it should stay in a clean room until it's ready for use. Um, when it
stays out of the fire floor, it's being recontaminated. Um, so that you're already putting on dirty gear when you're responding to a call. Um, and then and then just a note that that all of these components um are are impact those NFPA objectives that I had
outlined previously. Um, they're all sort of part of the story of of what an emergency response facility should be providing. Any questions on any of that? Um, I know there was a lot sort of in line with the presentation before I hop into the design options.
U Matt, I'm not sure if the design options. the sort of just overview and um uh total kind of square footage and general cost estimate because I have a specific question about the um the
living quarters and bunk rooms for firefighters. Yeah. So, we can Yeah, we can talk through those as we get to them. Um we do have yeah there um we we're certainly not in a position to to make a lot of um
take a lot of liberties in terms of removing programs. So we we did some ways of combining some spaces, but we didn't eliminate programs. So, the the square footage doesn't vary significantly between the options that we're going to present, nor does the cost, but um I think they're they're
good conversation starters for ways that we could combine space or where it doesn't seem like that would be the practical approach. Yeah, I I was just reflecting on what we saw in Westford and thinking about um are there ways to
make um spaces that are flexible so that they could potentially be um you know, you close the door and it and it allows for uh you know, a private space to hold a
meeting. But it's and or you you know you have two bunk rooms, but they could be uh divided down the middle for additional bunk rooms if you got to where you needed them or something like that. But if you're going to get to that later, that'd be great. Sure. Yeah. And I think I think those
are all great ideas and points and and things we can continue to discuss and and explore. Um so I'll jump right into it. Um so this is uh so each scheme we we sort of have a site test fit and then we have a
block diagram um hybrid floor plan that that shows the arrangement of the the different spaces. So this is the first option. Um this includes our our our 1,200 foot out building that would store some of the some of the equipment that was recommended to be retained by the
advisory committee but not stored in the fire station proper. So this is UTV and and and things like that. Um, so that would live in in the out building off to the left here. And as you can see, this is the 100 foot setback from the wetland. This line here is the 50 foot
setback. And then this is the wetland. I I didn't update this to show the existing wetlands over here. We're not encroaching on it further than existing today. So, uh, we'll be with we'll be outside of that boundary over here, but that out building does live outside of the 100 foot year or the the 100 foot
buffer. So, that would be outside of the conservation commission jurisdiction. Um existing building is shown here in right in white. And what we're doing is creating two apparatus bays in the bottom right. This is sort of where the steps are that go out to up to the front
entrance. Currently we have a one-story addition with all of our living and and workspaces. And then we've got another two bay apparatus edition off to the back here. So Matt, yep. Go back to that, please. Why? Why? Since
you're just moving blocks around, why not just get it out of the 100 foot zone, move it to the right, that yellow and um it and I I apologize for not putting the new delineation in here. If we started pushing this further to the right, we would start to enact that buffer.
Well, you're impacting it on the left. It's already paved over there on the right. So, you think you're grandfathered in? Yeah, it's an area of previous disturbance. Um so, that's typically somewhere could do work um so long as you're not making it worse.
On the right is a septic field eventually. And the right is the leech field as well. So we did we wanted to sort of leave that alone as much as we could. All right, got it. Thank you. Yep. Um so the way the way this essentially
works is uh the bottom right section um we're essentially expanding the existing ambulance bay and creating two ambulance bays that would would exit directly out to the street. We're maintaining the existing six bays that are in the back here. Uh, and then
creating an addition to the back left that takes care of the future tanker, um, car 10 and, uh, and the future EMS, uh, car. Um, and then we've got a few supportive spaces associated with that. The primary singlestory edition off the
back here would have your library, your lobby, a couple of restrooms, training room, day room, kitchen, and dining. Here, this is your sleeping and living quarters. So, we've got our five bunks, the wardrobes out, uh lockers out in the
corridor, and then we've got our our housekeeping and shower facilities there. Um, and then we've got our our our decon decontamination space, our turnup gear storage space, and the rest of our firematic support facilities all encompass the south portion of the plan
where they're the existing locker rooms and and kitchen are located. So if if you you've got vehicles all over the place, are they able to get to the decon? Everybody's able to get to the like the
guys up in the support bay. I guess maybe they don't need that. But how do you get if you're not right there in the middle to the decon room with your contaminated gear without going through the fitness and all this other and the
kitchen? Gee, I don't try to put a kitchen next to the decon room, but Well, these would be Yeah, these would be separated both atmosphere. Yeah, but um yeah, there's certainly some challenges. You know, we can we can work out transition zones to to accommodate that. Um it can shift
around. This is this is really to to start putting the putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Um Okay. But so putting the pieces together is that essentially to the scale you were talking in the earlier in the
presentation. So the fitness room is 500 square f feet whereas the training room holds 30 people. The fitness room it looks bigger actually than the training room. Yeah. Yeah. This this option some of those things are a little bit bigger than they are in the the subsequent options. Okay.
Best I can tell. Yeah. Yep. But I'm just I'm still kind of concerned. Maybe I got to turn to Matt number two. You know, one of the things my recollection from our tour is point you you know there's a lot in in the Westward station
you got your B like there's a logical flow from the decon room, the laundry of the decon room, the you know here you got stuff. It's like jumbly, right? Cuz there you got one ginormous vehicle bay. So I think yeah, unfortunately we're somewhat
constrained with the site that we can't create one large vehicle bay that would allow us to create sort of a centralized location for a lot of this. Um that's it's one of the challenges with the site. So we sort of have to pick what's the what's the what's the worst evil in
in terms of where this is going to make the most sense and most use. You know, maybe it makes the most sense where it is now. Maybe it makes more sense shift it over here and create a sort of a transition area between the two. We may in the end revisit an elevator.
Y and that that could solve a lot of sins and it could create some sins and we have to decide which is best. Yeah. option. All right. Yeah. I so I'll also add to this this includes leaving administrative space up on the second
um which is which is certainly a challenge. Um there's an ADA concern with with doing something like that. Um so it's it's a it's a further cons you know conversation that I think we'll have to have. I don't I don't think this is the preferred option but one that was necessary to study.
It does give you more breathing room on that the other area by moving these up here. The other ones are very constrained. Okay. Yeah. Um, so if you recall back to the space needs, we were initially looking at
around 17,000 ft. This was able to bring it down to 14,890. So it gives us a little bit of breathing room um and and certainly bring the cost down um from where we were initially thinking sort of on the lower end of that 14 to
16 million range. So, the second option that we looked at, uh, again, another large addition to the back. Um, one small apparatus bay. We've got our out building off to the bottom left. And then we're essentially wrapping the front of the building. So,
we'd be cutting into that hillside a bit in in and wrapping a couple of a couple of bays down to this space and and reworking the grades there. Um, one nice thing that gives us is the ability to sort of dress up the front of the building and and sort of reimagine the
architecture as it addresses the street front. Um, which would which I think would be beneficial. So, essentially this is getting closer to um one single apparatus bay. Um,
so we've got a these are the existing six bays here. We're creating two bays down at the bottom and then uh this one being a double deep uh drive-thru as well. Um we've got our storage room, SCBA room,
work room, and electrical room in the existing mechan mechanical space. Up at the top of the plan, uh this is our main public entry into the building. Um, we've got our admin office, deputy chief's office, uh, chief's office.
Along the north end, northern end of the building are our bunk areas with our with our bathroom, showers, housekeeping, and it um, in the central block here, we've got our training room, day room, kitchen, dining space, the fitness room, and then the remainder
below that are the supportive spaces off of the apparatus bays. And so in this one, we were able to actually connect the decon space essentially to to this outer bay and the rest of the bays here as well. And then the turnout gear right next to that. Um we're you creating a a
transition zone directly off the day room, kitchen, dining space so that um the area where firefighters would be congregating during the day most, they'd be able to directly get right into the bays. Um and then a series of storage spaces and then the uh the bay restroom.
Um, this looks at taking the existing second floor office space and utilizing that as a mechanical and storage mezzanine. Um, so that the building would essentially be fully ADA compliant with that with that move. Any questions on that one?
That that doesn't look to me like it um has all the bays that the committee recommended us having. Yeah, the it's 10 bays, which is what the committee had recommended. So, I see
third ambulance bay missing and I see a mini pumper bay missing. Oh, no. Wait, is there one under the gray? Option two. Okay, sorry. Yeah, underneath the gray is something is a bay, right? Two bays down here. No, but I mean under the SCVA storage. I think there maybe something's
mislabeled because there are 10 there are 10 spots there. Yeah, something Dungeon 7 is duplicated. So, I think the upper left is an ambulance bay. Yes. Yeah, you're right. That was mislabelled. I apologize for that.
Okay, we can do two tankers. We have to prove that out. Um, and so this one's uh just over 15,000 square feet. So again um smaller than uh than what we had
initially programmed. Uh and then the final option this is a more compact version. Um this is actually getting the new construction completely out of the wetland buffer which which would certainly be advantageous. Um and and then we're
still creating the the the bays down on the bottom of the plan sort of wrapping uh the front of the building. And and so what you what you have here uh come into the lobby. This is sort of a a similar version to the one you had just seen, but what we've done is um
further compressed some of the living quarters. It's a capsule. So these are what we're calling sleeping capsules. Um I don't know if anybody's ever seen them before, but essentially one room is a bunk and then the next room is a bunk that sort of slots in over top of that. So you can reduce the
square footage of the bunk spaces by 50%. It's really not ideal, but this is really getting down to as tight as we can we can conceivably get some of those square footages. In terms of the remainder of the building layout, it's essentially the same as the the scheme previous to it.
It's just looking at further compressing a lot of those spaces. Um both scheme two and three we would be or I'm sorry one two and three we'd be looking at providing additional flexible office space within the day room kitchen dining
space. Um this scheme also looks at combining the training room with those day room with the day room and kitchen. So it becomes more of a multi-function multi-purpose space everything all within one room um with a room divider so that it could be split when there is
a training going on. Uh, and this gets down to 14,492 square ft. Yeah. So, the kinds of things, you know, when you get down to that level, you lose the ability to use those bedrooms as remote workspace and things like
that. And so, you there actually things you lose even even if it is uncomfortable, you know, sleeping, but you also lose other other options. It looks like you don't save any money. Well, not much. I have one question, Matt, on all three.
I was waiting to see all three, but why would you not Can you go to any one of them? I guess maybe this middle one. Like why would you not um instead of the wraparound and you you squee and maybe this is where Brian's
going like just extend the current building straight up and make that all bay like so the bays are all together and then you know figure out the decon and all that other stuff as it flows
naturally through. Uh because you can't get out. You can't turn around up there or something. You can't you can't circulate around. That would that would require us removing and replacing the radio tower. And we start to we start to get into a lot of ledge over here. So we're
increasing our site development costs. Yeah. With further encroaching into the wetland and we start to get into the wetland protection which that's going to be a no-fly zone. All right. So Brian, you mentioned the elevator which means the second floor. What would you what would you put all the office living the stuff like at
Westford everything would go upstairs then basically that would be an option and so is maybe for the first matt elevator cost a million we know that we don't like elevators we don't do well with elevators here um but other than the elevator cost is Matt architect Matt
is it cheaper to on a construction basis to build a twotory or I I analyze that. I can run that by my cost estimator. I would I would suspect in this case that it probably will result in a in a less expensive
project. Um apart from apart from the elevator, you know, we'd be buying an elevator and a couple of sets of stairs. Yeah. Um that would increase the cost, but we're reducing the amount of site um work that we're going to be doing, the amount of foundations, the amount of underground work and things like that.
So, um, it would also, you know, all of these schemes because of our site constraints are are broken up into several different additions. Each one of those additions in order to maintain the fire department's operations during construction, they're going to have to be sort of separate like staged phased
um, mobilizations. So, it's going to increase the amount of time the contractor is going to be on site, which is also going to increase cost. So, there'd be an efficiency if we were to go vertical. Um, for sure. Okay. It would also take the wetlands out of play. We'd be able to completely avoid
uh dealing with any of the wetlands. Um taking it out of that jurisdiction would would be helpful with the project when we go through permitting. Um so there's a lot of winds that come into play when we talk about doing doing this vertically. Yes. And what what effect, Matt, uh the
arpeedc, Matt, does this have on um what I'd heard before about uh having to bring the second floor up to code if you do more than a certain percentage up there? Well, this would be an addition. So, um
I I I would I would conceivably probably still maintain that the existing office space up there um would be better suited as as mezzanine space to serve the apparatus space instead of having it be program space. Um Ah, I see. Yeah.
Okay. I I wasn't understanding the the second floor and the addition. Got it. Okay. Yeah. The second floor would be part of an addition. Yeah. Okay. Essentially, if I went to this scheme, it it would it would be
more or less, you know, this box here. We put the bays underneath it for a portion of it and and and we build program space on top of there. And Matt, I I think you said it, but I missed it. um the existing fire station
and the um rooms that are up front with the chief's office and the conference room. Um would those need to be brought up to ADA code in this process? And if so, you know, wouldn't the it's on a different grade, wouldn't we need to get
an elevator there? Uh only if we're going to maintain that is as administrative space. I would I would recommend if we went with a two-story addition that we would that we would leave that space alone as as mezzanine. It sort of not use that as as office
space or anything like that. That can that can house you know we're going to we're going to need to expand the electrical mechanical requirements of this building and and that can house a lot of that and and deal and that that would get rid of the ADA issue up there. Firematic storage some of those kinds of
spaces can go there. It's not. Yeah. And then we we'd be able to actually use some of that mezzanine for for some of those training um components that I had highlighted in in other fire stations. And um Matt uh Sach um
maybe this is not uh apples to apples, but uh when we toured the Westford Fire Station, you had said that actually the one thing you wish they hadn't put in was the elevator. And I just wonder if you could speak to that
just because of the expense. That's it's just the it's a yearly upkeep and it's uh and it's expensive. So yeah. Um and you and you said you that you people just use the stairs. Well, we'd like to be fit. No, I mean I I think we we would be the
same way. we would be using the stairs, but I think if we have to have a I mean if because of our site, I think it's something we need to revisit and and it may make things a lot simpler. You mean we'd be required in terms of
code to have the elevator if we had so much of the up of the program upstairs on the second on the second floor? Correct. Not just to clarify, not because of the code, you'd be required to because of federal law. for accessibility.
Yeah. So, because this is a publicly funded project, it falls under title two of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Yep. That that goes handinhand with the 521 CMR, which is the architectural access board in Massachusetts, which is which is a statutory code um for accessibility
in the Commonwealth. Um where those two laws are are in conflict, the more stringent will overrule. And in fact, um, there's in in the ADA regulations, I actually have an excerpt of it further down the slide, um,
section 28, CFR 311 35151 of the of the ADA in 2010 actually provided uh clarification in terms of fire stations and its accessibility to other floors. you know, there was there was a longstanding understanding long time understanding that firefighters are
able-bodied folk and they don't need an elevator to access the second floor. Um, but the ADA actually came back and and provided clarification specifically to public safety facilities and said for residential quarters, you can make it
what's called adaptable in in in terms of uh you don't need to provide ADA compliance out of the gate for the residential areas. So it they actually specify sinks, toilet fixtures, grab bars, things like that don't need to be meet the ADA so long as they're
adaptable and can be made compliant in the future. But they but they specifically say that that does not exempt you from what's called the u an accessible path. So they does not allow you to get out of the requirement of the elevator.
Huh. Okay. It's it's a very common misinterpretation um of the law. Thank you. So Matt from from Tecton um we're we're approaching 9:30. can you move to the next steps? And I think what we as a
select board need to um not necessarily vote on tonight, but but discuss tonight um from a standpoint of, you know, we have we have these options in front of us that are all within about a thousand square feet. They're all in a price
rough price estimate of 14 to$16 million. So that's I think that's the possibility space we're we're operating in. And I think the question clearly these need refining. We're already discussing you know the fire department needs time to look at these work with
Tecton. We as a select board assuming you know we work through this process and refine it and and come up with a design that that everyone's happy with in that scope. Is that something we're willing to support in terms of bringing to special town meeting versus not
necessarily specific option here? Seems very tight. Yeah. to get good fidelity numbers. It seems seems too tight to me. I can see getting this whole thing built and you still are inadequate. I want to address one. Wait, those are two different issues. I
think you're talking I think timing is tight because I know how long it takes to really do a good job to get to that point. That would be my com. Before we go there, I just want to address just one more thing which is the elephant in the room thing because John Levery went to great detail
and he says you can build what you need for 5 million now and then what are you going to get for 10 million but we're not even at 10 million. We're talking like it's going to be close to 20 when we're done. I guarantee you it'll be close to 20. So I don't I realize he had a extremely simplified sketch that was
really bare bones, but I would like to hear Matt from Tecton or somebody just like that's like a third of what this is and what I just want to put that to bed if it's I don't
want it out there if you know I want to address it like this seems logical. I don't really gibble with anything that I'm seeing about what we need. So, is he just out to lunch basically on what things cost because he's he's proposed a thing that
he says is very cheap. I I if I could just if I could weigh in on a couple things, you know, I don't have the full record and I haven't dug deep into everything that he's provided, but from what I have seen, it didn't seem like an applesto
apples comparison of the exact program square footages that we're talking about. Yeah. and the the pre-manufactured metal building that he was providing as part of his estimate. Um he used a case study out of Missouri from several years ago and construction costs aren't the same as what they are. And and I I would say
that the the project that he had he had uh presented um does not have a lot of the safety features and factors that we're we're putting into this building for for health, safety, and wellness of the firefighters. Okay, it's a good answer. Thank you.
I I don't think there was there's invalidity in or it's not an invalid exercise to understand yeah where he's coming from in some of those points. I think they're all valid uh and and and should be unpacked and and understood but um I I don't I don't want to say that it was an apples to apples comparison.
That's good. So back to the schedule. Um Chair Triola. Yeah. What is it that we are going what is your plan? What is it we would present to the special town meeting or what would we seek approval to proceed with estimate? Yeah. Matt, do you want to just talk to
your your your your next steps and timeline at a high level? Sure. So, I think the one takeaway I'm getting right now in terms of um conceptual development is is we certainly want to see another scheme that looks at what a two-story option is
and what sort of cost benefits or lack thereof would would be. So, I think, you know, there's another um there's another select board um meeting on the books for August 26th, and I think I would I would like to prepare that option in and some
of those cost considerations for that meeting. Um we certainly have another another uh go at it on September 9th at your at the subsequent meeting um to further refine or address any other questions or concerns that may arise from that. uh that gives us enough time
to proceed immediately from that meeting. If we have sort of a good direction or at least, you know, we're we're in the ballpark to get to the cost estimator, we can continue to refine the design from there, the graphics, the messaging for the community. Um and then
that would allow us basically from you know we would get that estimate back the end of September, first week of October and um and really be able to um start uh educating the community on what that cost is and and why it costs what it what it costs. Um, I think we should be
looking at enga doing community outreach and and engagement the first week of September as well to start building that story, gathering that feedback from the community and addressing any questions or concerns that may arise as we further develop the package for the uh November
2nd town meeting. But what's the ask at town meeting? It would be to fund the schematic design on the schematic. Yeah. So you'd want an estimate. You want a ballpark of things. You want to know generally what generally going to cost 18 million or whatever and we need what 2 million or what's the number?
Yeah, you need I don't know some percentage of that to do the schematic design and get a get a the real cost. The the secondary question is can you you know looking at election having to have an election if we do a debt exclusion all that do you even have time to get that done for for town meeting in this
because well I guess we're going to cover that later but we it sounded like what Ashley said we have to know the answer. No, we don't have to know the answer. We just have to put the ballot question out. Yeah, but you'd want to have that ballot pretty quickly, right? You don't want to wait a month and a half.
Yeah. Okay. All right. Maybe maybe you can do it then. I mean, Matt, from Tekon, from your standpoint, you know, you you've sat in on all these meetings. Um, you've talked to all of us. You you know what we're we're what we're discussing, what we're asking you. To David's earlier question,
this timeline, we we certainly don't want to rush things, but we also know that we don't want to delay things. So, is the timeline you're laying out between now and August 26 and September 9th um from your standpoint realistic?
Yeah, absolutely. Is it realistic? Matt, could you Oh, go ahead. Related to tonight, we've heard from the fire chief and the deputy chief um as far as, you know, some things that may not be ideal and and I think there were
some schematics up there and I've certainly become more informed in this process and more educated and I, you know, really think that we need to make sure we do what we can to retain our on call force and if that
means expanding some of these things that, you know, to to really, you know, make sure we're doing the right thing, I, you know, I and and I I want to move this forward, right? But but we don't want to do less than the minimum.
But I don't Right. And I But I want to get it right is what I'm saying. And I don't want to um But I think the next to me the next step is everything from option three the first time to these three options are all kind of in the same general zone. Right.
Right. I think and we've done a lot of work on our own and I think now it's if stay within the scope but tecton needs to work with the fire department to explore these tweak these figure out refine these concepts and bring that
back because I do think there you've only seen these for a few hours right you haven't had a chance to really look at these but I think the next two weeks really needs to be that dialogue to to get this dialed in to to meet the objectives that that we've been talking about.
I'm I'm That's what I'm saying. But I'm looking at this saying there's a lot of lot more of those pieces. I don't think everyone's, oh, we're on this page. We're ready to go. And and so Matt can start the next phase. I think there's still some discussion to be had, but
maybe I'm wrong. Discussion among among with the the fire department. Oh, yeah. I think that I Matt I don't know. speak to how you would refine how you would get to the next iteration on say August 26.
Yeah. So, I think the the first thing is I'm going to I'm going to go back to my team tomorrow. We're going to start hashing out some some schematics on on how that can start to lay out. Um, concurrently, I'll I'll set up some meetings with the chief so that we can we can probably have a meeting uh later this week and and next week and and talk
about um you know where some of the programmatic moves we've made recently make sense or where they don't make sense and how we can incorporate that in. And then we'll we'll continue that back and forth dialogue. And unfortunately between this meeting and the one prior um between the chief and
myself, we had sort of uh leading and lagging um vacations and things like that. So, we we you know, we're all we're all at the ta back at the table again and and can work really collaboratively uh over the next few weeks to to jazz that up and and really come up with a with a supportable
solution for the next meeting. Chief, what do you think? No, I think that's I I think we're we're converging and I think there's still some some wild cards we need to think about. You know, where do you put this out building? is a second floor a much
better idea to be, you know, so we have some of those wild cards, but they're not we're converging, I think, on where we're end up. But yeah, I think that timeline sounds reasonable whether you can get from there to town meeting or,
you know, let's let's see what we can do. I mean, the the the more time we have where we know what we want to do and we can start the community engagement is good. Well, September 9th is is kind of
the the real drop dead date in terms of getting out to a cost estimator. So, if you're not where you need to be at that point, you're Yeah. Then you just then you kind of push it. It seems to me I mean, for the purposes of tonight, we're already overdue. Yeah. It was a nice presentation. It's good
presentation. I think I agree with the chief I and Matt. I think we should explore the twotory option. uh because you know that seems logical. Yeah. Uh and then sort of cycle back. I mean you you would know better, but I presume we have to make time no matter what we
have on our plate. We got to make time for this in our cycle of meetings. And if they're not ready by the 9th, then they're not ready. But we should proceed. We need those options anyway. I mean, if we push to the spring, things only get worse, right? But to Scott's question, does anyone on
the board have any thoughts on the 14? I mean the price range is I view it as it is what it is. I think our committee the fire apparatus committee did some really good work and I'm feeling very comfortable that we
have you know really reviewed this. That was well thanks. That was a question I want to ask you too. Does what you see meet what you think your committee wanted? I mean well from an apparatus based apparatus. think coming into tonight and at the
last meeting there were you know we what we hadn't really heard a lot about in the whole process was the work life space and all those other spaces and I think you know that stuff I kind of defer to the specifics of right but your committee looked at
apparatus and bays and does that yeah I would say this this all looks a little herky jerky so to your point so maybe exploring a second floor and consolidating get well that's different but you had a fairly number of missions the number
those are the number and and tecton Matt we did in your estimation is the outbuilding included okay all right and that's where you put the antiques and stuff right notes we haven't figured out the antiques yet are not included
um doesn't the historical commission have a garage so let me cycle back to uh Travis's point I I think if we're going to present this in the fall, we have to present a placeholder
for the DPW. Yes. And a general plan for how we're going to manage all that debt, right? That's right. And that's what the town people want to hear. Yes. Can't The town people probably I mean, I don't know, but I'm just going to say my general impression is they trust us to tell them we've looked at
this hard. It's really needed. I mean, people understand that it's needed. Yeah. They're not going to do like we do, oh, there's a bedroom upstairs. I mean, they might, but it's not really going to be like a big deal. They want to know, yeah, how affordable is my town going to be? Right. Right. That's really what we have to Yes. And there has to be a placeholder.
We're not going to have the answers for the DPW, but No, but we have to sell in context. We're building three, we're we're getting to, you know, three, sorry, three major buildings. Police station's kind of on its way. Yep. And that's just the way it is. And and in 10 years ago or some number, we made
a similar pitch. We said we got to build a new K through state because that one was falling apart. And by the way, the high school is also going to get built and that's just what it is. And we presented the plan and seemed okay, you know.
Well, and the biggest thing that I think came out for me was how much of a cost savings having an on call fires, right, is for our town. It's just incredibly valuable. I don't think we'll have a problem justifying why we're doing this. I just
think they're going to ask like, okay, how are we going to swallow all this debt and we just need to show that we have a plan? And you can't present this and not address DPW and then come back in a year and say, "Oh, we have this. That would be that would be disingenuous." It would it would be irresponsible.
I I would hope the town would appreciate the amount of work that you guys did that committee. You you covered a boatload of data, got information from all kinds of places. brought in outside consultants when you need them. It just incredible work, but they expect us to do that.
Yeah, they just as they expect you guys to volunteer your time, you know, hundreds of hours here. But anyway, I know we're we're running late, but I I what I'm hearing tonight is that there's enough general agreement for to go like to to keep the
the bogey on the 9th and take that next step. And we'll see where we're at on the 26th. And that'll be a shorter agenda item. It'll hopefully be more focused on a specific option or refinements. And my expectation is that Matt from Tecton is working with fire
department leadership. Yeah. To really come out at a place where because ultimately you have to also support the station project. Um and that that really needs to be critical in the next step.
Can I have one more thing to just going back to the timeline and the community outreach? Yep. If if that's appropriate now. Sure. Okay. Thanks. Um Matt uh from Techon. So you said something about beginning the community
outreach in September or did I misar that? I know on your timeline you've got it happening in October, but did you say something about we could also start it in September? Yeah, I think you know I think we should start having those discussions of of
what community outreach looks like for this project. how how do we want to engage in that and and what it's going to entail? Um, you know, if if it's a matter of waiting until we have all the information in hand to do that, then we would start in October. We we'd probably
be pretty aggressive about how we handle that in terms of uh meetings and presentations and and and outreach. Um, but if if if we're ready to do that and and start telling the story ahead of having the estimate in and the final design and taking feedback and questions
and start getting an understanding of where the general public is at in terms of the project and support of it. Um, I think that can start a lot sooner. Um, I would agree. Yeah, I would agree. I think we should we should map that out.
um you know, as soon as you're ready for that and um yeah, figure out how we're going to reach out to people in September and start the conversation. Yep. Yep. So, I can I can put together we have um and and Scott had a brief conversation
with her previously. Um Antonia Servella from our office. Um she's our sort of community engagement expert. That's that's what she does. I can have her put together sort of a draft playbook on on how we might envision this process going. Um and then
and then look to your feedback on on how we can sort of tailor it specifically to the community. Yeah, that'd be great. Awesome. Yeah, we'll start working on that now. And the last point on that, Barney, is if we meet that 99
milestone successfully, then I'm I'm not concerned. We already have a ton of materials that we could roll out today around the justification and all that. And so if we have also a concept that we're rallying around at that point and we can move forward, we'll be ready to to start outreach um probably the
week after that. Okay. Yeah, I think that that's great. Okay. We we should get a calendar mapped out and yeah know who's doing what and then just be aware that um you know the MBTA is also going on. Oh yes.
and also the ADU by law which I don't know how many people have even focused on that but wetland that's out there wetland wetland wetlands dem historic demolition all right so again I don't there's no formal vote needed I think it's just
let's let's we'll we'll get something on the agenda for the 26th and between now and then uh Tecton and the fire department can can work to refine the designs and look at some of those adjustments we talked about. Okay. Is one thing quickly while I got is it
one of those options that you would say is a preferred or is it too early to I don't So option one allows a little more breathing room but it means that I'm stuck up out of you know away from
everybody which is not ideal. Um, it also the select board probably needs to decide how much risk they want to get in terms of ADA because it's not doesn't it doesn't fix ADA fixes for everything new
we build, but the old stuff we had is will will remain that way. So that's that's what I would say off the cuff, but um hopefully we come up with a little like you say solving some of these problems about where things are. My personal feeling is
is the extension, you know, the one that way extension. If it's a twotory and you can put those living spaces up, you just buy yourself so much more flexibility, right? I mean, you just do and it's definitely worth I mean, yes, I have elevator. What do they go? I have
PTSD from our elevators. But the fact is, you got to have elevators. Like, this is the 21st century. You got to have an elevator. So, you just have to be at peace with it. rig t-shirts up for dad. Once you get past the angst of an elevator, it opens up a lot more
architectural possibilities. Well, and I Yeah, and again, we're we're running late, but I I do think you'll end up with more elegant design in that option, right? Okay. All right, Matt, do you have what you need from the select board? And yes.
Okay, great. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for attending. I appreciate it. Thank you. So, with that, we'll we'll we'll roll right into the special town meeting discussion around logistics. Um, and I I think what what we had talked about in
the in the planning meeting, um, right now as it stands, we're looking at obviously the MBTA bylaw, a potential fire station bylaw, wetlands demo bylaw, and were there a couple procedural things? I I don't recall, but three substantive. So, the four really four substantive, right?
Okay. Right. Four. Yeah. So the the one of the questions that we want to discuss and and again uh a planning board mentioned they might have six articles under the MBTA bylaw. So that could end up being a lengthy and complex um
yeah the MBTA will be a day. So that so the the you know the one question that we should discuss is do we just do MBTA on Sunday and schedule that Mark to come up? Yes, I would say. Yeah. Come on, Mark.
Well, Mark is a proponent. He has a plan, right? Well, he's a fellow town meeting study committee. All the incoming and outgoing logistics of all these attendees for MBTA. To me, it seems very disruptive to try to
shoehorn articles before or after it. I think it needs to be so that is my belief that I mean the reason I asked Mark up maybe he can articulate better but the idea was whether it's one day or two if you say MBTA it's going to be Sunday yeah
like that's all we're doing and we're going to do it till it's done like that's it right so set up all the equipment right we're there right and if you don't you want to leave you can leave it's okay but that's what we're doing we're driving till it's done I think where We
mishandled the last town meeting is we quite frankly we dithered in my opinion but nevertheless we just tried to pack too much stuff into the we had unrealistic expectations. You're coming in at 1:00 or 12 whatever it was and you're going to be out by you know 4. Like we just have to say you're going to
be there like pack a lunch you're going to be there right and if you want to show up show up that's great but that's what we're doing. we get done early then fine we're early and then the second night would be a more conventional town meeting where we have the other three articles which themselves are
fairly meaty it could easily be couple hours well it's easily going to be a couple hours let's try to keep it you know like the what we might consider and this was a comment was 7:00 start time has been
leads to late nights like can't we say like 6:30 like can we experiment experiment with six. Yeah, because I mean it's sort of an artifact of precoid when commuters have to get home. Like you don't really have to because mostly you're not working anywhere but home. So maybe at 6 and
then we could be out of there by 9:00 which is a reasonable time if you have children or you want to go to bed or whatever. So that would be I don't know. Mark, don't go away yet. What do you think? He's trying to shrink. Yeah I yeah I think uh MBTA is going to
be a long long session and a complicated like the logistics you agree isolated into the day for one day in yeah it's going to be I can't imagine it being less than four or five hours unless people are so sick of it but
whatever. So the question was raised is that one town meeting or do you have to schedule special if it's two different nights two isn't one town meeting is if you if you scheduled it yeah okay it doesn't conquer they have four days it's
all one town meeting what does the select board generally support that approach of just MBTA on Sunday everything else on Monday yeah but what happens when it runs over it can't run Oh, you're there.
You just tell them you tell them that that article is going to go that article is going till we're done. There's going to be a point though where it's going to be if you're there 5 hours madness. You have to come to some resolution. You have to come, right? And that's where that's what they do. They lock them in a
room and say you don't come out until you resolution. I think it makes sense to have it Sunday. I mean, you set the expectation again. I We have to decide when start time is. We're not doing food trucks because that didn't seem to work out. But yeah, and part of that reason I'll just remind
everybody that given it was a Sunday, people had a lot more op, you know, you have a lot more options on the weekend about how you're going to feed yourself and stuff. So, you know, if you know it's going to start at one, yeah, have lunch,
have a good lunch if you Right. just playing on and and and uh there are also the other part of it is the if they're expecting a thousand or something they have to provision the gym. Yeah, there's a lot there's a lot more logistics that have
to get done. Uh and you know then the second day you don't have quite so many. You just say let's have a conventional town meeting in in the auditorium. It's those logistics that have me concerned about setting up a second day. It's it's going to be a huge push even for the second day, right? It's
second day revert back to the auditorium. You just hope that but there's still AV and I don't know that's that'll already be there, right? I mean, it will have been set up. Well, it's going to be two I think it's going to be two days. I don't see all this being done in days. It's going to be two days. There's no way it's done in a day.
Conquered goes what? Three or four days. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, but they have And some people come only for the things they want. Right. Right. Right. So I I also think when the MBTA ends, you're not going to be able to roll into another article because people have remote gym. We're not It's going to
be people are going to be venting positively, negatively, whatever. Getting out. I I have a feeling though if it drags on that people will just start to leave. Like they'll say their peace and then they'll leave. But then there's also the political and it may work to our advantage is if you get the
big crowds out for MBTA and everybody said their piece and they've had their thing and they just say I can't show up on Monday. Well, you know, then you kind of that's not what we're shooting for. But no, it's not. No, we want participation. But you I I would think you also don't want people
that haven't been paying attention or don't really have an interest in one or multiple articles that are being presented to just well I'm going to sit here and vote. You know, I mean, I would say this, right? We put in thousands of hundreds of hours
anyway a year, and so do all the many committees and volunteers. And those other people, if they can't put eight hours, I don't care if it's two consecutive days. You can't give the town eight hours of your attention for these big issues, then you don't care that much.
Honestly, you don't care that much. Yeah. Yep. We have a representative town meeting right now, right? That's right. One out of 20. You've you've given your vote. If you don't show up, you're you've uh you've as a proxy.
Barney, do you have a comment on on this topic? Just Yeah. Just uh I would definitely support Sunday afternoon being the MBTA and uh Monday night being a more conventional town meeting night for us. And the only smaller thing I have to say
is that I think also uh or not smaller, one is smaller, one is important, which is uh the small thing is we should definitely though build in a a uh 15minute break uh during the MBTA conversation if if it is gone two hours
and it's clearly got a long way to go. I think we need to build that in for people and because we will lose people if they don't have the opportunity to get up and move around or go to the bathroom or you know whatever. Um and the more important thing I think is um
you know and I'm I'm not quite sure how and who does this but I think we really need to be working carefully with Wayne as the chair to to manage all of this particularly Sunday. So that's my comment all the AV and every Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, we'll find out what we need to do. I don't think we need to vote on anything or make any motions tonight. Um, we'll find out. I think maybe on the 26 maybe there is something to be done. I'll defer to to Ryan. And if you could just socialize that to Wayne and get any
Oh, in terms of logistics planning or just like do we need to set the dates? Oh, yeah. We have to set the Oh, we set the second date. I think we the first date's been set, right? Are you closing the war? I think you should We're closing it the warrant on the 26th.
I mean, do we take a vote? We could take a vote now or we could take a vote then. I I think we should vote the second day and then Yeah. Yes, I do. Do you want to just do it on the 26th? I don't see there any downside. Yeah, because we're closing the warrant. I mean, yeah, we'll just do it all in one. Now, if any of that gets that leads to
another question, which is if somebody comes out of the woodwork like in the next two weeks, I mean, I don't think it's going to happen because it probably would have happened by now. But, well, we'll just have to Yeah, I guess the warrant's still open.
We don't have to accept it. Just because the warrant's open doesn't Isn't it the case that we can as a select board open the reopen the warrant if we want? I'm not thinking of that. I'm thinking of saying sorry even though the warrant's open we just can't take it. I mean if it's just some small issue then
somebody comes in with a something new and we'll deal with petitions. I don't think you can worry about that right now. I don't believe so. Anyway, well let's let's address that on the 26. Yes, I agree. I agree. Let's go on. But for now it's it's the ones we've discussed and I've heard nothing of
anything else. All right. Lastly, town administrator report. Okay. Great. So, um, I'm not Ryan, obviously, so I'm the assistant town administrator report. Uh, so just a reminder, next Tuesday during the day is
the professional development day for all staff. So, that includes all town hall staff. Um, that's all department heads and then some deputy uh department heads if they're available. Uh, we'll be doing a lot of annual training including cyber
security, harassment training. Um, we're going to give a tour of the library and the police department and uh we'll end with some more professional development training um and some ice cream. So, it'll be a good it'll get a good ending, but it'll be great to make sure everybody's up to date with their
trainings, but also feeling like they're, you know, on the same page of professional development. And then, as we've talked about the volunteer training also that Tuesday at six o'clock that night. So, that will be fantastic. Um, and if anybody can attend, it will be recorded and so folks
can watch that on YouTube if they miss it. Um, and just another reminder, new town hall public hours, uh, a reminder, especially that, uh, the town hall is closed at noon on Fridays. Um, if you're here to pay any taxes, you can submit it in the mail slot.
Uh, I did add to or to the packet uh a memo from the town clerk about potentially needing a special uh election if the fire station design funding requires that. Yes.
So, I wanted to keep that. Let me just pop that up real quick. Right. No, it's 35 days, 15 days. We're going to need to be aware of that. Mhm. So that's something to discuss. I think we should also Scott sort of set
that next. Uh also the center park waters on. So that's great. And then you can dismiss that first paragraph after notweed disposal disposal because I was so excited about the water chestnut pool that I wrote about it twice. So the the notweed
disposal is actually a pilot plan. Um, it's brought to brought to us by the SC, the Transfer Station Action Committee, the DPW, the fire department. It'll be at the transfer station, their specific spot, um, which is on this map. Let's
see if I can pull that. So, that is where folks can do it. There are three dates available for people to drop off notew weed. uh this flyer which will also be circulated uh publicly um making sure that folks aren't mixing
this with other uh waste yard waste um and making sure that when you do uh dispose of the Japanese not weed that it's just that as well. So um so this is a good pilot program and so if this is a great disposal method uh
they hope to continue that. So, on to the actual water chestnut pull uh that I wrote about. It was su successful event. There were 29 volunteers, including families and children. They paddled 15 boats and removed an estimated 32,000 plants,
which is amazing. Really a well-run event. My goodness. And with that in mind, um just jumping ahead to some thanks. Uh the the Carile Conservation Foundation wanted to thank some uh staff members as well for
helping them make this happen. Jim Hall, John Mativier, Sarah Wasserman, and Noel Baland also all helped make this possible. We talked a little bit about the Carell flag in Boston. So Carlo's flag is now
officially in the Commonwealth's great hall of flat flags. I know most of you were able to attend that, which is fantastic. So, uh, for those who didn't join, on July 29th, the select board joined Lieutenant Governor Kim Driscoll, State Senator Michael Barrett, and State
Representative Simon Canaldo to formally accept the flag on behalf of the Commonwealth. Um, you were all joined by dozens of Carell residents and staff for the ceremony and ceremony and visitors to the state house can now see Carla's flag flying proudly. So, that's really, really fantastic.
Can I interrupt with a procedural question? Sure. There are a bunch of deeds that were previously approved with a typo. Are we to sign all of those? Yes. From the no scratching left to please sign them. There's there might be a blank space for somebody who might Well, she said to just leave it blank.
Oh, with Kate read. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. She said to leave Kate Reed's blank. I did hear. Yeah. Can you sign me? Sorry. Good. We can fix She can fix it when she returns if we need to. It's fine. Should we just Can we hold off on these?
That's fine. Absolutely. Absolutely. Don't sign those. We signed a bunch, but these these are starting to get different. They're different. Get a little murky. Okay. No problem. Very good. Sorry. No problem. Um and I know Scott mentioned about the India Independence Day celebration. So that's great. That
happened on July 27th on the town common. And thank you for recognizing a August 15th as India day in Carlile. So that's great. Um HRO report and appointments. So, as I mentioned, uh we have a couple new COS fan drivers and we
will have the new finance and HR assistant. We will also have a new DPW driver and labor laborer that we just sent an offer letter to and expected to have that signed. So, I'll have that update for the next meeting. We are still looking for a DPW mechanic. So,
that's a hard one. has been that's a tough um I think a lot of towns are having a difficulty with hiring that updates that Ryan will will provide when he returns more about department up updates capital project updates community preservation act projects and
building construction projects upcoming topics uh as we've talked about a lot the operational policy updates will be updated or be provided August 26th meeting hopefully there'll be time I know there's a lot going on there will it's just it's not anything It's more,
you know, making sure we clarify what kind of um employees we have and just making there's just make sure there's just a lot of clarity. So when we process payroll and everything, there's it's just a lot clearer for our finance department of where they land. And then as we've talked about closing the
special warrant at the next meeting, this next uh approval request, I didn't receive any further information than what's in the packet. Um, I was anticipating some for some further information, but it wasn't. It's a request away fees uh for two street opening permits submitted by Mass D. I
don't know if anybody has any questions. Unfortunately, all I have is that. So, I didn't know if you I mean, I read the email chain. Um, the guy doing the boring with the board of health. Just wave the fees. What's the difference? I don't even know what the fees are. I
couldn't find what the fees even were. So, what do you need? well installations. Um, so you need a motion and motion to wave the fees for the street opening permits. And there's apparently they have no way of paying if you don't already have like a an official like PO with the state or
something. I don't remember what it was, but I move to wave fees for the following street openings to be submitted by Mass D. Well, installation Church Street Well installation school street. I would second that. Discussion, deliberation. Seeing none, we'll do a roll call vote.
Arnold I Modell I Snell I Stevens I Triel I very good there you go um I just wanted to give one more staff recognition um Deputy Chief Andrew Booth also uh he successfully completed the senior management institute for police
it was a three-week executive training program at Boston University and that brings together senior law enforcement leaders and experts from academia and the private sector to focus on leadership organizational management and strategic thinking. This achievement reflects Deputy Chief Booth's strong commitment to professional growth and to
the future of the Carile Police Department. So, congrats to him. Um, as you're aware, Ryan's still on uh military training and for the end of this week, August 15th in three days is India Day and then um the regular board
meetings are still scheduled and the fall town meeting, well, at least that first one is still scheduled for November 2nd. And then we have the upcoming agenda for the 26 review. But we got to make room. We have to make room for the um
Tecton. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Great. We should recognize Sarah Wasserman, too. Also, she got 15 grand for the brick, which is great. Our first one. Isn't that amazing? Yeah.
Great. Thank you, Aubrey. Thank you for stepping into two roles this week. Are we Can you always give the TA report? Am I Is it cuz I'm quicker than him? Very efficient. It was good. Can I ask a question for the public's benefit? I know typically we would we
would have an updated packet today with all the materials that were reviewed. Is there an opportunity to post Yes. some of these documents? Absolutely. That were presented tonight so the public can access them. Absolutely. Okay. If we could we could do that tomorrow. That would be great. Um, apologies for
not having that done today, but we're working short staffed. Um, being three people is a lot, but I'll get through the week, but I will I can post. Thank you. Um, okay. Community input. Any any last community input? I can't see the the board, so I don't know who's
out there or what's going on. A bunch of people at least. Okay. Seeing none, um, take a motion to adjurnn. So moved. Second. All in favor? Roll call. Could I say one thing? Oh, yes.
Thank you, Kim. Yes. Can you just introduce yourself? I don't even know if this is the right place to say it. Can you just state your name and address, please? Yeah. My name is Kim Tesh. I'm 125 Mebrook Road in Yep. Car. Um
I I just wanted to make a comment on NBTA, everyone's favorite subject. Yep. Sure. Um I'm just concerned that and we're talking to the planning board as well that the planning board is
working very hard diligently to do a very difficult thing that the state has mandated. Yep. One of the proposals that they've done is this sort of scattered sites approach that people have voted on. But I think the way they've set it up has been
confusing and they have may have backed themselves into something that they didn't intend and that was that um what people might have thought they're
voting on scattering sites throughout Carile to make it sort of less dense, but they chose to do a sort of pre9 1962 sort of idea because these houses could be zoned as
two were already zoned as two. You could vote two put two houses on these lots. Mhm. And then so it was sort of lowhanging fruit to choose as a quote unquote scattered site lot. But in the end, what it's ended up being is these
neighborhoods have a bunch of houses close to one another that could potentially end up having four units on them and by they accidentally may have created very high dense neighborhoods
by by choosing this. And so people think scattered sites is actually less dense and scattered throughout the town, but actually it's it's an incredibly dense group of housing. So I just I just wanted to throw that out there and make
people think about what they're actually voting on on on because it's very comp all these things are very complex and difficult. Great. Thank you very much. I know we've received a lot of comments on the various strategies. So, thank you for um
expressing that. Okay. Um and thanks for your work. Have a good day. Thanks for sticking around. Um we had a motion to adjourn. Second roll call vote. Arnold I. Modell I. Snow I. Stevens I.
Triola I. All right. Thank you everyone. Thanks.