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Thank you for not hitting record until after we have it. It looks like it's almost seven. So, um Julie, do we have a we have I assume we have a quorum tonight, but we are we who are we waiting for? >> Yeah. So, um I think everyone's coming tonight. So, you don't have I haven't

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Let me see. Dwight's on. I need to make him a co-host then. Let me see who else am I missing. I don't see Chris and I don't see Eric yet, but they are both coming.

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>> Okay. >> Is my microphone working? >> Can you hear me? >> Yes, we can hear you. Excellent. And hello by the way. Hi. So, Eric just joined. I'll make him a co-host.

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>> Oh, I was just talking and you couldn't hear me. Um, why don't I call the meeting to order? >> Great. >> Julie, do we need to take remote Do we need to take um attendance on a all remote meeting? Is there rule? >> No, why not? >> Okay. Um, call the meeting to order of the town of Carla Planning Board.

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Monday, May 11th, 7 p.m. remote only. Um, I believe we're supposed to do roll call attendance. So, we'll kick it off with Eric. >> Eric Adams here. 18 here. >> Addy Grady here. I sorry I didn't um

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know if any other G's were here. Apologize. Stacy Lennon here and Sarah still here. Um okay. Um, so our first order of business tonight is the Woodward Village closeout

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review. So Julie sent around some documents. Um, it looks like I'm trying to think the best way to start this. Um, so Julie, I guess it would be super helpful just to sort of articulate and so everybody understands what the role of the planning board is

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on this and what we're being asked to do um to close out the um, special permit for Woodward Village. >> Yeah, sure. That's great. So basically I put this on your agenda not because it's necessarily required um but for a few reasons and one of them is just because

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you know you guys you go through this process you have these hearings you issue a decision and then staff take that decision and we make sure that your conditions are met. Um and typically the planning board quote unquote close out is when we staff feel like all the conditions have been met and we issue the final occupancy permit for the final

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unit. Right? Um and so in this case, this decision was written in 2019 before uh staff planning, well I was around for sure and the decision refers to the planning board in a number of different instances and it doesn't necessarily give staff like the authority to just do

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everything and close the project out. Um, and so there are some um, items I just wanted to touch base with you on and also just so you understand kind of what the process is and that we are actually um, making sure that the conditions of the permit have been met.

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Um, and then there during the like process I've had with the developer and preparation of the asbuilt and the asbuilt review, it's come to light that there are a few other changes that have occurred to the plans and the zoning bylaw for ROC doesn't really give me the authority to approve any changes without

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you without at least a discussion with you guys. So, um, the I I sent around a document earlier today that kind of had like my kind of punch list and that punch list is directly from the the decision, right? It was a bunch of different outstanding conditions where

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conditions that I wasn't sure the status of that I was asking the developer to like provide an update about. Um, and then he did provide some feedback and some links to some documentation. Um, and that document also included a list of changes that have been identified to the plans. um and he made some responses

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and some justifications and provided some links to some documentation regarding those changes. So um that's kind of the the overview and I did want to show you like what happened. What I do in the office is I print the decision and then I go through it and I

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make lots of notes over the years and I really keep track of like what's been done and what hasn't been done. And typically I do that in conjunction with a number of other plan review staff. So, um, is that good, Sarah? >> That is Yes, that is super helpful. Thank you for that. Um, and I think it's

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great that you've been tracking all these changes over time because I'm not sure that if that's if it's always been so thoroughly done, but um, certainly great to do. Um, it seemed like in your list, if you want to pull up your document that you sent around with all the colored notations, that might be

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helpful. It seemed like there were a few that it seemed we might be waiting on final documentation on. And I just wanted to, you know, before we kind of officially close this out, um, make sure that we've got everything that we feel

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we need. >> Yeah. So, one second, let me just make Chris a co-host. He just joined the meeting and I don't want to miss him. Um, and then I will get back to you. Okay, there you go. Um, so just to give you guys like a little overview, there

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are four legal documents that were supposed to have been finalized a while ago um that are currently being finalized um by the developers attorney. The way the condition around those was worded was that they were in substantially the complete form in 2019

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when you reviewed the project. Um and then they required some additional input from conservation, from trails, from board of health. like minor changes. The condition basically allowed for for minor changes to language that wouldn't impact the intent um of the permit. So

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those were distributed to those entities and I did get feedback from conservation commission um and the trails committee and the fire chief on those documents and there the changes that were requested were pretty minor. The development team I believe agrees with them and is working on kind of preparing

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the final documents. Those documents will then go to town council for review to make sure that the town's interests are still being met. Um, and then they'll be recorded and finalized. So, that's something that will h that will need to happen prior to final occupancy and it's in process. Um, and I did send

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those documents around as well as the comments provided by the conservation commission. So, I don't know if you have any questions about those documents or >> No, I mean to me it just seemed like we should wait to receive them, but I don't know if anyone else had specific

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questions. >> So, in terms of the planning board waiting, really what this holds up is the final occupancy, which would be issued by the building commissioner and I would sign off on that. So, um certainly if there's something major that town council flags, I would circle back to you. But um they are

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substantially the same as the documents that were reviewed by the planning board in 2019. >> Okay. And then do you want to just keep Yeah, why don't we keep going down the list here? Um like Nish has Nish has signed off on the asbuilts and felt they were accurate.

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>> Yes. So I did get the asbuilt plan and a list of changes and then niche niche engineering peer-reviewed the asbuilt and confirmed that it matches the approved design plans. Um the list of plan changes is here on the screen in

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front of you. So my the the I kind of paraphrased but they did provide a a full letter with with changes with slightly more information than I put here. Um and then I just asked the developer to provide sort of a rationale and justification um

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for for the changes so that you guys could decide whether you consider them minor or major. Um and in this case if any if you consider any of these changes to be substantial that technically under the ROC zoning requires the developer to file for an amendment to this ROC

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special permit. And so to to answer you specifically about the any questions you have about this, Dan Gaines is on the >> call, so he might >> be the person to ask. >> Okay. >> Um,

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well, I I guess this was like mostly sent around on Thursday. I know there were a few change like a few updates and changes today, so I'm not sure if people have time to read it. But at this point, I can open it up to the board for questions on any of the specific plan

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changes if anyone has questions. Um, it looked like the biggest outstanding one was the guardrail spec, um, which I haven't had time to look at. and that we need a statement from Chief

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Sorrows about the the um fire access lane. >> Yeah. So, I was well I think Dan probably could answer that better. I I was supposed to get an email from the chief today. >> I think he is okay with it. I didn't get that email, but I saw like a whole chain

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where he was going to follow up with an email, a separate email to me. Um but maybe maybe Dan can address that one. I think I may co-host. >> Yeah, Dan, if you would like to address that question.

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>> Sure. Um, I did I did correspond with Chief Soros. He came out with his probe and he said that he was satisfied and that he would be sending an email out to I think Julie. Um, to that effect, I also believe that he may have been headed out of town um over the weekend.

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So, I don't know if he was able to do that or not. Okay. Um, and it seems like the other ones, the width, there was the width of a walkway that seemed like it had pretty minor impact and was done to reduce the

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amount of um, impervious surface, which seems to make sense. Um, and then another one about a larger an expanded um, terrace in front of the community building. Um, and it sounds like that

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building permit wasn't required and it didn't really have a big plan impact, but it was a minor change. Um, so, >> um, if I could comment on that, chair, um, uh, we actually made,

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um, a substantial portion of it pvious by not putting the the the polytric sand in it so it infiltrate >> in the in the terrace. >> Yep. um planning board questions about this list

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of plan changes and then we can go on to the the numbered findings after this. Nothing specific from the board. >> Okay. >> Nope. Um and then

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uh any about so there was a extension of it sounds like it was a little bit of a vague request for a financial contribution to the the pathways. Um I'm not sure how to how to sort of um pin down something that was a kind of a

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vague request in the first place um other than >> it's also a finding and not a condition. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. But I I was just curious if there was like any update on that. Um it sounds like there there

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isn't really. Um >> Dan, did you have a anything to add to that finding? >> Um I would love to, but but I don't unfortunately. There was somebody I'm trying to remember. I was sort of scrambling in my head when the court

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when I saw you headed down that path. No pun intended. um that um there was somebody that was sort of leading the charge when we first started. This is back in 2019 that was very um and it seemed like there was a fuse on it.

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maybe they had access to some state funds or something and that never materialized on that side and I can't remember the person you know Rob if he's on he may remember um but that's that's

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what I remember about it >> that might have been a complete streets um it could have been yeah could have been >> and that comes around every couple years Um, I'm not I mean I was really just wondering if he had any news on it. I

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wasn't >> I don't >> Yeah, >> fortunately. >> Yeah, Rob said he doesn't remember either. I I'll what I can do is I'll try to go back to my notes and see if I can find at least who the person was

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and see if that helps. >> Great. Yeah, I don't know if this is something that the safety committee might be interested in looking into at some point. Um, >> pretty pretty distant from where the

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pathways end now, right? I mean, there's there's a good bit of ground to cover again, no pun intended, uh before we to to connect the pathways, which would be great to do at some point, but um it it doesn't seem like they're that far off yet. So yeah, maybe Julie, if that's

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something you want to follow up with, that'd be great. >> Sure. >> Um, >> do you want me to keep scrolling, Sarah? >> Yeah, the rest of these are are conditions. Um, >> and so we talked about the legal documents. That's this part here at the

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top. Um, >> and then I just noted one of the conditions really is something that needs to be determined by conservation. Um, okay. So, it sounds like the the on-site trail parking area and fire

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assist turnout are accessible >> in the kiosk for the Are you looking for approval or comment from the trails committee on that one? >> Is is that question directed to me? Yes. >> Okay. >> Or that would that was that would be my

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the way this is worded. It seems like trails committee might want to weigh in on that. >> Yeah. So, um when I read back through the condition, um it sounds like the trail committee just wanted to coordinate what I sent you guys. Um what

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I sent to Julie was I just went online and identified a weatherproof enclosure. Um we we certainly happy to mount that on the um garage um the four bay garage. That's you know that's where the cars

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head in. So it seems like that unless they have some different vision perhaps that they're thinking of a polemounted I saw those online as well. Um so I just I really don't know what they want. I don't know. Um so I don't really know what to do with it. Um, but we're happy

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to to help get it mounted and do whatever it's going to take to to get it there. >> Okay. Um, so Dan just continues to work with this trails committee on this one. Are you okay with that?

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>> Are you asking me, Julie? >> I was asking the planning board. >> That's what I thought. Sorry. >> Yeah. >> Makes sense to me. Others. >> So there's D. discrepancies throughout the the trail easement stuff. I mean, so I assume

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Stansky and McNary are going to rectify that what was filed. >> Sorry, Joe. Can you say that louder? Sorry, there's a couple references like planile dated March 12th and they've got other plans for the development dated the 19th

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reference in the trail easement and other plans um with different dates. Um so I assume whatever McN uh Stansky and McNary are generating will be the date that's filed with the registry. >> What document are you looking at Joe?

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Um it's part of uh the legal um >> the trail easement. Yeah. >> Okay. >> There's just date discrepancies through the whole legal thing and they don't uh reconcile. >> I can make a note of that and make sure we can sort that out. The trails

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committee did look at the the trails committee chair did look at the draft and thought it looked fine, but I can circle back on that. Um, I I was planning on going to the trails committee meeting tomorrow, so I can probably ask about it.

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>> The other thing that there's a I think there's a typo in the one one calls it middle sex south registry deed, district registry deeds, and the other one says Middle Sex North. Why Middle Sex North? It's just a typo, but that needs to be corrected.

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You're doing town council's job for them, Joe. >> No, I'm not doing it. Someone else did it for me. >> All right. >> Should I keep going? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, the next one was there was a trail parking only sign that needed to

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be corrected. It has been I've seen photo documentation proving it. Um conditions 23 and 24 which I didn't state here would relate to the um basically the uh

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fire department fire alarm system. So one of them is about including an exterior strobe light device on each unit facing the street um or the village green. And then the other one is about the numbering of the dwelling units, making sure they're shown on the plans that were approved by the fire chief. I

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emailed the fire chief about that just to make sure he's good with them. Um, again, I have to follow up with him on a couple of the other things anyway. So, I will just confirm he's okay with how the fire alarm system and numbering has been done. Um,

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I would think if there was an issue, it would have been flagged a long time before now because I think he signed off on every occupancy permit so far. Um, >> so it's probably fine. I just need to know that for sure. Yeah. >> So, >> yep.

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>> Um, okay. Compliance with the conditions of the conservation commission order of conditions and the board of health approvals. Um, so the kind of like unlike the planning board, the conservation commission actually has a formal process for closing out a

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project, right? Um, that the developer, I believe, intends to apply for or has already applied for. So, they're working through that with Megan Sullivan and Kelly Callow, who are the uh conservation administrator and health director. Um,

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thank you for letting me know who your new construction supervisor is. Um, okay. And then 32. I just wanted a confirmation that these inspections happened when they were supposed to. I have some documentation from the peer review, but I wasn't here for all of

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this and some of the filing was a little hard to sort through. Um, but as far as I know, all of the necessary inspections happened when they were supposed to. Um, and at this point, I'm not sure there's much we could do about it if if it hadn't.

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>> Should I keep going? >> Yeah. To 34. >> Sure. >> That seems like it's tied up. Yeah. >> Again, and we have that statement. Um, so that one's all set. And then there

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were the I think the maybe not the last two two of the last two conditions were about just like holding the occupancy permits until all the things happened. And so that's where we are right now. Um since so we have the asbelt plans, we have a

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statement by the design engineer and then we also have a statement from niche engineering. Um, and then Dan provided a statement that the interior layouts of all the units comply with the approved special permit. Um, as well.

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>> So, are we waiting for anything that could hold I guess can we our close out process is separate from the occupancy permit being >> We don't have a formal closeout process. >> Okay. So we can still wait to tie up these loose ends and not hold up the

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occupancy permit. Is that correct? >> So yeah. So So no, so the the loose ends are like basically on staff to tie up. I just wanted to give you guys like an update and no sure if you had any issues. Yeah. So these loose ends will have to be tied up before the final occupancy permit is issued.

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>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, it seems like this is something that we're going to do next meeting because we're we're or >> you don't have anything left to do, Sarah. >> Okay. >> You have a major issue with any of the design plans. >> We can rely on town staff and town

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council to tie up the loose end. We just need to decide whether or not we think any of them are um substantial changes. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I will open that question up to the board.

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It does not seem to me that anything in here is substantial, including the concerns about runoff for was it unit 9? Um that has been addressed

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and the um contours seem to be much closer to originally permitted and intended. So that's that's what I'm seeing.

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>> I agree with that. Same Yeah, I I agree. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I would agree. Also, >> Joe. >> Yeah, I'm good. Thank you.

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>> Um and then before we um take a vote, I don't know if we need to take a vote, but I wanted to see if there's any members of the public here or occupants of Woodward Village that wanted to make a comment. So if you there is anyone on the line and you'd like to raise your hand.

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>> Do you have Kurt Sarah? >> Yeah. Um Kurt, if you could state your full name and your address for the minutes, please. And if you have a comment about Woodward Village. >> Uh yeah, my name is Kurt Carlson. I'm a resident or owner of 15 uh Gazwalk. Um I

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just saw today for the first time I had access to a document that said the drain all the water from our gutters was supposed to be sent to a dry well and in fact it's running off directly into the slopes that go right into the

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conservation land or the wetlands. Um, so I'd like to formally request that that be added to the list of things that need to be fixed uh in the process of this this uh neighborhood being

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accepted into the community. >> Thank you. >> Can I respond? Can I respond to that? >> Yes, please. If you could respond whether or not that's something that had was it was a change or um Yeah. >> Yeah. Um if if if I can draw the um planning board's attention to the

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asbuilt uh sheet one of two and if you need if it would help I can put it up on the screen. >> Can you Dan? >> Yep. Do I have sharing? >> Oh, you know what? Let me I you should be able to. Yeah.

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>> All right. Let's see if I can that should be this. No, you don't want to see that. You want to see There it is. Okay. Um, and now I want to make it bigger. Well, actually, you know what? Before I

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do that, let me Sorry. I can move that over there. Move that there. Okay. I want to make it smaller. All right. If you look at

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this chart right up here, and I'll try to blow that up a little bit so you can see it. Is that could people can people see it? Read it. I know it's small. Let me try to make it one more time bigger.

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That's too big, but let's see. Okay. Can people see that? >> That's better. >> I'm getting I'm getting nods. Yeah. >> Um, so if you look at here, this is the unit number. It says 15. That this is a this is the roof drywall

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that's associated with 15. And if you look down here, you'll see this is the location of the drywall that was installed. And if you look here, you can see this tiny little line that runs from the corner, the low point of the house

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over to the drywall. And that's what we do. We take the lowest point. We pick up all of the gutters that are captured and we put it into the drywall. What what Kurt is referring to, he sent you some photographs. There are two outlets along

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this uh slope. Those have nothing to do with the roof cutters. Those are associated with the um perimeter foundation drains which will basically never see any water because the groundwater at this point if you guys

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think about where the stream is is probably a good 15t 10 to 15 feet depending upon where you are below the slab. So the only water that will come out of those outlets that I've ever seen is maybe a little bit when you're in the

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springtime when you're getting a little bit of thaw, but it's a really dimminimous amount of water. So may I'm assuming there's just maybe a little bit of confusion, but the drywalls have been installed and are functioning.

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So to summarize, you're saying this was you're saying it was constructed and built according to the plan and it might just be a potentially a mis misin misinterp interpretation of what is being seen on site.

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>> I can only speculate but that in terms of that but um to your first point you are correct. They were installed in normal course of the construction as they were um typically we don't um we

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try to avoid doing gutters because they become a maintenance issue but often times what we find in particular with the courts where the houses are relatively close and you have to deal with micrograding we find that we have to install drywalls just to manage the

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water. So in this case, that's exactly what we've done. >> So does the number of drywalls equal the number of units built? >> Um, so if you look at that chart again, Joe, you'll see um it's not there. Some

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of the homes did not require them just because of the grading and and um drains were able to be daylighted, but in this particular instance um we did install. So it looks like there's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

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9 10 11 12 13. So there are 13 of them. Um uh all of it appears that all of the homes on the based on the numbers, you know, the unit numbers, all of the homes on the green receive drywalls.

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So my I guess my question is the the the Kurt who commented on it is he one of these units or is he one of the ones without >> He's number 15. >> So he has a drywall. Okay, >> he does. >> Did you have a quick followup to that

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>> or does that address your concern? >> Hello. Hi. Hi. >> Um, yes. All right. Well, that's helpful to know. Um, I sent out several communicators in the past and this has not been explained to me. So, wonderful. Good to hear. >> Okay. Thank you so much.

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>> Um, do I don't see any other hands. Um I'm I'm also feeling like these are um insignificant changes and and um so I'm I'm I don't think in my view we have to to

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um require a um amendment to the special permit. So if we're Julie, do we need to officially vote on that or not? Because we >> I think you should officially vote on that. >> Okay. Um just and then I can put

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together a document like I did for the change that happened a few months ago. >> Okay. So does somebody want to make a motion to what what should the language be on this motion to um >> Dan if you can stop screen sharing I'll just >> sorry

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>> quickly sh um >> I figure how to do >> sorry let's just say stop sharing. You know what? I can force you to stop maybe. Fun. >> Sorry. >> The share button. Just hit the share button. >> Yeah, it did. Is it home?

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>> Doesn't seem to be working. Oh, hang on. Sorry. There it is. >> Okay. I'll just quickly put the list because I think in my memory there were 10 changes. Yeah. So, I just um you know what? if you want to just note the like 10 changes that were identified

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um in the letter from the design engineer um and then I can like reference that more specifically when I put together my little document. Um but these are the 10 changes Sarah here. >> Okay. >> So does somebody want to um

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>> you know what you do have one other resident of Woodward Village with a question? >> Oh, okay. Sorry. Did you want did you have a comment and could you please state your name and address for the record? >> Hold on, Peter, you're still muted. >> Yeah. Yes. Hi. Um, just I'm Peter

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Yakudus. I live at number 12 uh K's Walk. And I just have a question on the bank that is below the uh garages and wraps around uh all the way around to to number 15. Well, there's two different

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banks, but uh they have uh wood chips uh as covering and the plans seem to have shown that they would have jute in plantings and I'm wondering if that is considered an inconsequential change. Is

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the uh are wood chips uh considered a permanent um uh application for the banks? uh as compared to plantings and and uh and under a juke netting.

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>> Dan, did you want to >> Sure. Um so the original I guess how to how to um respond to it. Wood chips are in fact a permanent solution. Um they uh approved and

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typically preferred by consom folks because they are in fact wood chips that are actually sourced from chopped up trees. um and they've done exactly what they're supposed to be doing, which is to stabilize that bank. Um that said, we

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did give uh the homeowner the option to plant it with a wild seed mix and jute mesh. Um and they the feedback that we got back from them was that they didn't want to do it because they were concerned about ticks and their uh the

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dog their dog. So, um, we remain willing to install jute mesh just as we did on the bank behind Peter's uh in and Pat's home. Um, if that's what they would prefer. Um, but we were we received a memo from the homeowner saying he he

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didn't want us to do any work. This work is in his EUA and so we're not going to go on to his site unless we have approval. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Dan. Looks like Kurt has this hand raised again. Sarah

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>> Kurt, did you have another question? >> Yes. Um, actually I just wanted to take issue with the uh uh what we're worried about is we can we had an engineer look at the the slope recently and they said there's active sheet erosion on that slope and that uh

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mulch was not uh sufficient to hold back there. It's certainly not sufficient for an actively eroding slope. Um, so it's not that we're worried about the ticks on the dog. Um, it's that there's an

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actively eroding slope that's right up the butts the the wetlands and we're worried that there may be long-term uh exposure, financial exposure to the HOA if the if the slope is delivered to us

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in such a manner. Is is this the same slope that was just being talked about or is this are you going back to the previous comment? >> Uh same slope and thankfully the the the the

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outfalls have been explained um even though we requested information in the past and haven't heard anything about it till just now. Uh but that's great news. Uh that said the active sheet erosion has been documented um and so it is a concern for us.

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Oh, >> Sarah, if I can just chime in really quick. I know that Megan Sullivan, the conservation administrator, has spoken with multiple people at Woodward Village about this um and potentially also with the developer. I do believe this falls under the jurisdiction of the conservation commission and is something

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that they're going to have to sort out prior to issuing a certificate of compliance. >> Okay. Okay. If you think it's their perview, then we can probably move on. Um I did >> their perview. >> Okay. Um, I did see Christina had a hand

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up, but Christina, if did you have a comment knowing that this is for consom, not planning board? Nope. Okay. Okay. Um, does anyone want to take a stab at a

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motion in referencing the 10 site plan changes that Julie just screen share? >> What What are we We're voting to approve.

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>> You're voting that these are considered insubstantial changes to the ROC special permit. >> All right, I'll take a stab at it. Motion to approve the 10 items listed in the memo from Stansky

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McMary. Um that the changes are insignificant with regards to the ROC. >> Do we have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Um we're going to do a roll call vote and we're going to go backwards because this is my last night as as chair. So we're going to we're going to

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mix it up a little bit and I will go first. Uh, Smith I >> show I >> low lenon I >> I'm sorry >> I can't do reverse alphabetical >> gradi

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>> de I think it's me >> Adam's eye >> there you go >> all right >> you've always been first Eric it just doesn't seem fair so >> it's easy for He's last. He just a story. >> Listen. >> Okay. Um, thank you everybody. Uh, thank

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you public for your comments. Uh, thank you Dan for um providing background on this. And um, it seems like you can work with Julie to follow up on the the tie up the the remaining details. So, >> thank you all. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Have a good night.

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>> You too. Okay. Um, moving on. find my agenda. Um, okay. Now, it's um at 7:38 we're going to continue the public hearing for site panel review of the Carile Fire Station renovation and

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expansion at 80 Westford Street. Um, and we have some documents. We have the updated Actually, Julie, if you can pull up the um updated permit set, that would be great. I think we have a few items

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and it seems like most of the if not all of the items we had requested to be changed were addressed in the um >> yeah Jose the new permit set. >> Yes, I can believe that. So, you have

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Jose Valdez and Matt Salad here from the design team as well as a bunch of other people I'm just searching for. Anyway, um see here. So, yes, and I think I also see um Greg

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Zerlo from the um the fire station building committee too. So, whoever wants to kind of walk us through the changes, whether it's Os or or Greg. Um, but if you could, seems like a fairly um short set. If you

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wanted to walk us through the changes um and thank you for all your flexibility and working with us on these, we we greatly appreciate it. >> Yeah. No, these were all great comments. Um I think in all honesty now that we look the final product on the renders it

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definitely makes more sense. Um I will start um with the brief presentation um showing the changes and then um you know Matt is also here and he can talk more about um some of the renders. So, I'll start just with talking about um the

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landscaping and site plan changes and then Matt um can speak a little bit more on the on the final renders which um are pretty much um just the selected option from from the last meeting. So, we just trim it down to that one break option.

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Um so, that being said, I will um go and show a revised site plan render. Um to keep it simple, I'm just going to focus on what changed pretty much. Um um there are

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two major changes on this side plan. One of them is the revised landscaping on the front. You can see now um a more robust um screening along the street frontage

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um with all larger trees um trying to screen the out building and the main building as much as possible. Um a revised location of the existing side sign. It's now being located adjacent to the main entry. Um directly in front of

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the flag pole. Um and then we've added a screening um to provide a screening to the transformer generator area and all these larger trees to provide a screening for the larger trees. Um we have developed with tacton um elevations

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rangers in which you will be able to see later on um what that looks like um in a more realistic view um but at least from a site plan standpoint that gives this gives you an idea. The other change um that we made to the site plan was that

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we removed the island that we had here on the back. Um this came from the meeting that we have with that we had with one of the planning board members couple of weeks ago. That was really helpful and we got the feedback um from him and we just tried this on landscape

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area um mostly because it was already so small that you know keeping a tree there was going to be tough. Um, plus this will help um, you know, with with the firet truck movements. It was already working before, but this just makes it even easier. Um, so those were pretty

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much the two major changes. Um, the the the one other thing that is not that noticeable here is that uh, we took the feedback of proposing kind of like um ground coverage that doesn't need to be moaned that much. So, we are on the new

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landscape plan calling for like no um mode kind of like lawn um for most of these areas here um as well as the um access path for the proposed well location. So, it will be really low maintenance um those areas. I believe

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the only area that we're proposing like shorter grass like actually like mowable grass is this area right behind the out building and that's just because that's the area where the fire department wants to have their picnic table. So so when they do like their year barbecue um they

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have that little area to put the tables. Um so those are um the biggest changes um on the site plan. Um, I don't know if anybody has any questions on the site plan before I move. I do have a um, phototric plan.

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Like I do have a list of like two or three more items that we changed. Probably I think they're small enough that I can go through the list and then we we can open up for questions. >> Um, Jose, before we before we jump into comments on the site plan, I just want

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to make a couple of quick comments. Um, one I just I wanted to thank uh Dwight for uh making himself available to uh to have a design shirt with us a couple of weeks ago on a Friday morning. Um, it was very helpful and informative and I think it was a fruitful process. Um,

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helping us really understand the character of Carlilele and how municipal buildings address the street, how a lot of them are sort of screened, tucked back. um they don't really have a an in-your-face presence um at the street and so I think that really helped us

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create uh a more effective landscaping scheme that is more within fitting with the character of the town of Carlilele. So I I thought that was a really helpful process and I and I thank you uh for taking the time to to you know help us out through that process. Um

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uh that was that was really the one one major comment I wanted to make here on the on the site plan. >> Yeah. And and I don't want to I want to point out that I like like I said before there are like a few more items in the list um of changes um but these were the actual site like plant related ones. So

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like again like if somebody like I I think it would be easy enough given how how small the changes are to go through the entire list and then come back but I'll defer to the board if they want. >> Let's do all the site plan elements first and then we'll have a discussion and get public comment and then we'll

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move on to any architectural changes. So, >> okay. There are other items that are technically part of the site. >> It's just not really like the site changes. So, like the other items are um we have here um we did one of the

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comments was about the signage and the way finding for the main entry and the parking. Uh we did research on other um municipal facilities on the town to kind of see the type of signage they use for parking and entry and those type of

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things. And we came up with a revised proposed um way signage um for for the sign. It's nothing in fancy, but it's our understanding and professional opinion that it aligns with what we saw on other

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municipal buildings. Um, we are open to suggestions, but um to put it in perspective, I'm going to split my view for a second and I will quickly walk uh

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the board to through what these means. Um so we have two entries for the site. Uh we have the west entry, we have the east entry. The main entry will be the west one. Um that's why this one we have

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moved um the the existing side sign for the fire station to be closer to that entry and kind of came up with a revised landscape area that calls attention to the sign as well as the flag pole being directly behind it. So like it's it's it's like a really u um it's kind of the

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area that probably calls for more the most amount of attention within the landscaping along the street frontage. Um and then as we go in right here, you can't see it on this view. Um but there is a side sign right here. Um that is

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the welcome main entrance visitor enter here sign. We don't want to put anything too big or too calling because you already have the site sign. So, we don't want to take attention out of the actual ground sign that is the fire department sign. Um, as you go in, um, right here

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on the left side of the driveway, we have these, um, parking with a straight arrow, um, for the public parking. So, people knows like public parking this way. Um, as you keep going into the site, um, you get to this area where you

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have your your police station main entry on the right side, but then you have your public parking direct direct straight. So on the left side here, we are proposing two signs. Um, two of um, which are um, one more um, parking with

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the straight arrow right here and the entrance this way right here pointing at the main entrance. So people knows as they are driving, okay, the parking, it's all the way on the back, but the main entry to the building is here. So I need to go to the back, park there, and then walk my way back here. As you keep

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turning through the back of the site and you get to this area here on the oneway driveway, um we have um here um a do not enter sign. I did not add that one here because it didn't change, but I I I have

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the ability to share with the board if they want it, if they want to see it. It's a typical do not enter sign. Um there then I'm going to switch directions for a little bit just to like um make more sense of this. If you are coming from the street and trying to

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access the site from the eastern drive on the right side of the drive, you will have a outerized vehicles only sign. Um the purpose of that is that only um town staff or firefighters can actually use

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this entry to park their cars. Um this is going to provide some additional parking especially for EV charging um to the town hall. That's why we're going to put that authorized vehicle only sign here. Um, so that's kind of like the

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quick overview on the signage. Um, and the one last item related to site is the I'm going to stop. Can I

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Okay, it's the revised photometric. So, in general, the only change that we made to the phototric plan um was based on a really good comment that we got on the last hearing was that it was getting a little bit darker um as you were navigating the

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site from the accessible spaces located um on on the kind of like on the left rear corner of the building right here. You can see the accessible sign on the back. Um before we have like point something foot candles, so like definitely not enough

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light. So, what we've done was that we added a um wall-mounted light here and you can see like now um none of like those this area it's like on the two to three foot condos overall. So, it should provide a direct path with full

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visibility even you know at night. Um those were the from a side perspective those were um the changes. Um before we go into the architectural stuff, I want to add a few more items that are

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pertinent to the design um and the site. Um, one of them is that as requested by the board, we reached out again to the conservation commission, uh, more specifically to Megan Sullivan, the conservation commission agent, um, to

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ask one more time about this driveway and the opportunity of making that driveway wider. Um we wanted to make sure that our understanding was correct of of what was um discussed with ComCom

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and they confirmed that um to her understanding again as you know she can't speak for the board but her recollection was that the board felt that if it was required by regulations or being a concern from a public safety

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standpoint coming from the fire department and their operations there will be open to seeing what what this will mean. Otherwise, they they didn't really feel comfortable um expanding the driveway and um expanding the limit of work even closer to the wetland. So, we

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didn't really make any ch any changes to that driveway. Um but we do have the correspondence with with with Megan um that we can include with an estimation if needed. Um just for reference. Um the

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last item on my list is that we actually had a meeting with um D on um it was um two weeks ago and

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we like Tectton was pres present, Fonil was present um members of the of the building committee were present and the the the initial discussion we had with them, it's that their initial understanding is that it seems that the

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the the public the actual water well doesn't really meet the thresholds of a public well that it will probably be a private well. However, um they will um be doing

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which at this point they should be almost done with it. They said like two to three weeks to get back to us a more thorough review of the plans that we submitted to them and the memorandum and and reports and stuff to confirm that initial um understanding and they are

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going to be issuing a letter with their determination. So that's that's hopefully coming um in the next week or two. Um but their initial thought was that um it it it it will probably not meet the thresholds um to be classified

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as a public well. Um so those are the side items um from the perspective of the design and the site plan changes um that we've made so far as a result of the meeting that we had with Dwight the

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charet few weeks ago and the last round of comments that we received from the planning board. Um, so I guess now you know we're open to questions before we jump into um architectural stuff. >> And uh board, do you think it's more helpful to look at this rendering of the

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site plan or the actual submitted drawings that >> I I can do that too. I have the actual landscape plan um right here that I can >> I feel like the actual the the the drawings with um that are annotated and

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dimensioned would be um more appropriate to review. Yeah. So like this is the one. Um so we've added a um more robust um planting area in front

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of the main building um to make sure that you know this these main buildings as screen as possible from the street >> without really taking the character of you know the town of Carile. A lot of that came from the good feedback we got from the white doing that. Um then we've

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moved the side sign to be um directly adjacent to the main entry with little bushes and planting u right behind it kind of like um specifically thought to be complimentary to the flag pole and the sight sign. Then we added some um

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evergreen trees and other small well some larger um planting on the six to eight foot um height to help screen the transformer generator area from the street and similar situation to what we did in front of the main building. We

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did it near the out building in which we added like larger trees um directly, you know, in the in the street frontage um to also help screening the out building from the street and kind of maintain um the character of of of you know the town

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of Carile and what we were trying to achieve of um from the street making it as screen as possible um while still making an effort of having you know nice looking buildings. Um, but we don't want to like make it look like industrial area or something that you know. Um,

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>> could you also show the area leading up to the the well the the area that we changed to be or that you edited to be um ground cover as opposed to mowable grass just so we can >> Yes. Yeah. So that area so like right now we

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have two hatches where you see these little dots. Um what we are calling that is um is the no moan. So we have a combination of the no mo lawn seed mix and then we have New England

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conservation wildlife mix on the areas that are closer to the wetland. Um and then the only areas that we are really proposing lawn are the areas directly in front of this existing um door to remain for the building which again we don't

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need it to comply with any codes. We're just keeping it because it's there and the area directly um below the steps as you come behind the out building. everything else will not have regular lawn m.

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>> And then um I think it would also be helpful just to test your Zoom skills in a public setting to also then look at the rendering because I think it would be helpful to see um sorry to make you jump around, but I think um especially for public on the on the call too, it's helpful to see what these will

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eventually look like. probably not when they're just planted because you typically plant much smaller trees when you first get them, but in yeah some number of years. >> So yeah. So I will focus more on the landscaping. Matt's here to talk about

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the building if needed. >> Um so >> yeah, I think just helpful you don't have to you don't have to talk through the landscaping again, but I think we can I just wanted people to be able to see what the >> you know visualization of what the what the landscape plan will eventually look like. And and to your point, um, we've

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modeled this on the 5 to 10 year range. So no fully mature trees, but definitely not day one conditions just to give like an in between. As you know, to get like a fully mature tree, some of these might take 15, 20 years to get there. Um, but at least within the first five, seven

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years, you should have something looking pretty similar to this. Um, that's for that entry. And then for the other one is this one. And you can see how the main building it's been. Um I apologize

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my kid is going crazy with his mom and he just came to me but um I'll keep going. So but yeah this is kind of the view of the revised um landscaping. Um so it pretty good idea to share it right now Julie like it gives an idea of what this will look like. Um and I'll leave

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it there just so people have a chance to see it for a minute. Um, planning board comments or questions? >> Yeah, I I have um I I know that you've talked to the D and they think they're going to come back tenerly with a private well determination.

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If that does not happen and this becomes a public well, um how are we going to address access through this current plan to provide a crane truck or something to go back there to change out uh pipes or something if the well fails and then

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it'll become they'll probably eventually have a pump house or some enclosure with all the regulatory requirements for that for intrusion and fire protection and whatever else. Um, so if they do come back and it becomes a public wealth scenario, how do we provide access

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through this this current setup to um account for that? Um, so yeah, you know, that's a a a great question. Um, in in essence here, um, the initial thought is and I will quickly shift to the

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um, landscaping plan. bear with me for a second. So, the initial thought is as as you come into the side here, like you can see because we have the septic tanks here for the leion field, like you do have an area that in hindsight, I guess

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we can clean this a little bit up with the guardrail bit right there. I think we need to trim it down. But the the the main goal is to if somebody needs to drive up there, they can drive through here kind of like once you get into this area, you see how we are not proposing

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any trees on top of the septic tanks. Um and then once you get from there to like this area, you can just drive over the leeching field and then we are providing um like I think this is like a 10% slope. You can see how it looks like

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a road, but just going to be um like I said the the ground cover, but that will be the goal that this will provide access to that area. Um I I want to add that um one of the other comments that we got which again wasn't really a change. it was just to like um visually

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show it. Um was to show um like um a larger view showing the estimated kind of like son one for that well. So in case that we need to go into a public well situation to show that we

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are really not conflicting with any other public well ones or the webinar or anything and this is probably the the best way of detecting that. This will be the proposed well location. This is the 100 foot 150 ft um sun one radius buffer

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and um you can see how pretty much it's not going past your property line. It's pretty much all wooded. There's no impervious area. It's not interfering with the wetland or any other public well. So that's kind of like what will be the plan B if if we do need to go that route. U we feel confident on the

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ability to provide access and the design um for the public. Well, >> okay. I'm just like I said, I'm I'm sure the well location is is fully vetted and I'm not concerned about that. But if they do need access to it and it rises to the level of pump house again with all the other things, um, you know,

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whatever truck that's in there riding over the leeching field that have concerns about bearing pressure, you know, I know that they're probably schedule 40 or something above that. But, um, I'm just planning ahead to think of if it does happen, we can account for it

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without significant changes that come to a cost of its own. Agreed. Agreed. >> Did you say you'd have to drive over the septic tanks? >> Well, you >> depending on on what it is. If it is regular maintenance and it's not like a

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big truck for the actual construction, that's different. I think if you have larger trucks, I think you might have to drive through the side of this. There's >> the septic tanks are on the side of there. Did you say they're along the side of the road? >> Oh, yeah. The septic tanks. It would probably be helpful to

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delineate that somehow so that if someone knew that they wouldn't be driving over it. >> Yeah. >> Cause an issue. Um again, I'm just thinking ahead going, okay, if this happens, we bring in some piece of equipment, whatever weight it happens to be. Say it's too much that they're not

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driving over ideally the the leeching uh piping and then uh the septic tanks themselves so we're not damaging it. >> Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. No, you are completely completely correct. I think there is a um factor of means and methods that if the construction

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um you know when construction comes um like it will have to be done now. So like I I want to point out that ideally you know like this well is constructed simultaneously with the building and

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missing methods plays a role on on which way like at what point in time you go and drill this so you don't have any heavy trucks going there. But I do hear you on the sense that if we do go the private well and they need to go public, I think at that point there needs to be for sure a a a follow-up conversation to

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make sure that those items are designated to avoid any any damaging of of already existing new utilities. Part of the reason why I asked the question is because even though we we believe what this site will be used for with the extra room up there, at some point it

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may develop into something else where it kicks off into a public need for the well. >> Yes. >> So, we just want to future proof this as much as possible with that with that thought in mind. >> Agreed. I I'm also curious. Um I don't

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see where the um property lines are because I'm I'm wondering if there's a way to preserve access to the left side of the leechfield that would take us kind of instead of going, you know, between the out building and

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the road actually kind of where the R and Rockland Road is. >> Yeah. So this is the property line. This is Rockland Road here. Um, >> right. So, so where the R and yeah, kind of where your cursor is, could we not

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make some kind of uh accommodation for Yeah. somewhere around there. um that would just circumvent all of the leechfield and septic tank um issues and um get us up to that kind of road that I

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know it's not a road, but the the the pathway, shall we say, um that you uh referenced earlier. >> Even if it's so I'm not sure where the property line's actually at Eric's point, but even if it is >> uh outside of the property line, uh it

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may be discussion for an easement. >> Yeah. >> purpose. Yep. >> That can address this issue. >> Uh, yep. Yeah. No, that I fully agree. If the if the board is open to that, I I do think that's probably >> the the the best option.

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>> Yeah. It's a direct forward solution that, you know, Yes. to a certain extent. So, we're not worried about >> going through existing landscaping that you have there, the septic system, and it's not impacted to Eric's point. So if that's possible, if someone can look at that to see where the actual property

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line is >> and if it's enough to get beyond to the left of northwest of the leechfield in the tanks, uh, you know, to get a good 15 foot road in there, something along those lines to get Yeah. there that would be that would address my concerns anyway. >> Yeah,

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>> I think the property line is quite far away. Okay, I'm just looking on axis GI >> it go it goes way it goes beyond the limits of this drawing so I don't think there would be any issue >> yeah perspective >> and kind of the reason why I'm asking this because when this if this does

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happen and say it's five years down the line or more someone's going to reference this plan as to what they're going to do with this so what I'm saying is that information should probably be conveyed in this plan so if someone looks at it in the future and it does come to play they have direction and a solution for this that's been thought

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out Yep. Uh, agreed. Yeah, I I I Yeah, I 100% agree. We can definitely show something that kind of like goes around the leashing field and then gets there. For

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sure. >> You see on properties all throughout town, you know, people have gates off to the side of the house for for access points to get back. It's just the same same concept. >> Yep. Okay. No. Okay. Yeah. No, definitely. Um, Jose, I have one I have one other question while we're still

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talking about the well. Um, you said a few minutes ago that you don't think it's going to meet the criteria for a public well. Is that just based on the proposed use and the saturation of the use? >> So, yeah. So there there are we've we've done a pretty thorough review of

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understanding you know the proposed use and you know um the the the actual um threshold between private or public. It's based on the number of persons that it serves. It has really nothing to do

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with the flows. It's about how many people are served by that well. And the the the big item here is it's a it's 25 like the moment that you start servicing more than 25 people per day that's when you enter into the okay for how many

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days you do that. So we've done pretty extensive calculations based on the proposed use and we're still really short from falling into the public well um consideration which again preliminarily the EP seems to agree with

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that path. Um, >> I I think to answer your question, the design fully allows for a public well, but the use does not require it. >> Yes, >> I think it was what you were looking for. >> Yeah, thank thank you, Chief Soros. I

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I'm I'm just I I expressed this at a prior meeting, but I just um you know, as Joe said a minute ago, the town's going to be spending obviously a ton of money on this, and um I I just don't want us to

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in the interest of time or or relatively short money in today's terms um preclude the use of the space for a slightly broader audience whether it's for anything from safety trainings to

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CPR trainings to I don't know public gathering space or education or um community I don't even know what I I I'm not trying to make a challenge where there isn't one, but I also um know that we lack those types of

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spaces in town. Um and um I don't pretend to know the the ins and outs, but and I know I'm very confident that the current use and and um I what I would call the saturation or density of use is is understood now. Um

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but I'm just thinking again 5 10 years in the future. I just want to make sure that we're not um being shortsighted in terms of what how we might use the space in the future and then we get precluded from doing that because we didn't you know broaden

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our scope in this in this moment. >> We agree with that concern 100% and um that that is exactly the main reason why this well is now here to allow for it to become a public well if he needs to go that route. Um, so we we feel pretty

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confident about the ability of of making it a public if it needs to go that route. It's more a matter of day one if it is not needed. That will help with the construction starting right now getting the permits because you won't get a building permit unless you have

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water. And then once we we we go that route, we feel pretty confident with the ability of that being public or or deciding it to be public. That's the the the route that the town wants to go. Yes. >> And and the only other thing that that occurs to me in this in this context is

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to ensure that that radius um doesn't get impinged upon by some other land owner or interest. Um that would therefore preclude the the conversion of the private well to a public well because

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that that radius was encroached upon because it wasn't needed in the moment. Right? Because we we started off with a private well. Um and again I haven't I haven't committed the uh various butters to to memory here but um

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think how they could address that Eric is but as we saw during MBTA that um they'll they'll stack wells up in the area to get the same output which may reduce that radius if necessary. Right? So they could put two, three, or

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whatever number of wells that's that's supposedly, you know, we had issues with, but it's legal uh and doable according to the experts we had. So I think that would probably address that potential issue. >> Yeah. And the other thing I want to add is that this property is actually huge.

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Like this red line is me tracing the edge of your property. So you technically have all this area here. >> We're looking at your looking at a render. So, so I think his point is that within 150 ft all the way in a circle is all the town land. That's all current

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land. >> Nobody else can plant can do anything there. It's only the town that can encroach on that this >> Yeah. Can you see my screen by any chance? >> We're still looking at a rendering of the street. >> Oh, so it's it's definitely frozen. Let

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me let me reshare my screen because I was trying to share. Sorry, I didn't I didn't notice this wasn't working. >> I think Chief Sos addressed the the point though. I think we we >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, the red line is a property line. It's a huge huge property.

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>> So, long story short, not to wrap this up and put a bow on it, but we can put an access road of some sort with with with next to the leeching field without too much issue. >> Yes. >> Address this whole problem. >> Oh, possible problem, but it it'll it'll take care of the issue at hand. agreed.

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Okay, >> just a heads up that Rockland Road is a scenic road. So that would require a scenic road consent from the planning board. So I'll make a condition of that in your decision um and just note that for the future. Um, other planning board comments about

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the site or landscape plan. Dwight, did can I ask whether or not the um the drawings that you see reflect your accurately reflect reflect the discussion that you had? >> Yeah, they they they do. I I think um I first of all I appreciate the design

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team taking time out of their day to uh to meet and this these do um reflect the discussion that we had and and just to clarify um my observation was that or is that the when just in the normal course

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of the day in Carlile um you don't really experience our civic buildings that town hall is tucked back um the school is on secondary secondary road not on a main The police department could easily be mistaken for a single family residence

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and the fire station now has significant trees in front of it. So when you drive through town, walk through town, bike through town, you really, you know, you you experience the historic buildings, you experience the landscape setting, the open spaces, you don't really just,

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for better or worse, you just don't experience our civic buildings. And so one of the main points as has been noted was to try to reflect that here and to fit better with the context of not necessarily screening but also not necessarily highlighting the fire

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station. >> Well, I like it. I like it. I mean, it's a it's a big um change and I think improvement from the last draft. And I particularly like how the fire station sign and the flag pole like

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there's bit a bit of creating a moment or create, you know, >> there's a formality. >> Yeah. >> That I think really works in this version. And I think the screening looks appropriate to me. Yeah, I agree. I think um

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you know, I was advocating for turning the sign perpendicular to where you have it now um a couple of weeks ago. And I think given the way the road kind of comes in at an angle ever so slightly, I think you still have good good

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visibility to that sign coming from either direction. And I think certainly the the way that the landscaping has been arranged with that formality at the front entrance and more um kind of loose

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wildish um arrangement at the secondary entrance or the or the authorized personnel entrance only really highlights the it makes the the um

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the access much easier to read. Um, so I think it I think it looks great. One of the questions I had about the plantings is um what are the what's the caliber size of the trees that you're going to be planting? And are there will there be

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any slightly larger, you know, 4 in or 6 in caliber trees or will they be um younger, smaller universally? So we do have on the landscape plan um

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this table. Um this is at the day of the install. So this is what's going to be requested out of the contractor day one. Um so you can see some some of the larger trees are like you know 7 8 feet at the moment of install. Um and then

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you have um you know some other shrs to be at least four feet close to four feet tall at the moment of install. Um and as you know like you know as as time goes by like some of these trees um will actually reach like you know 15 20 feet

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in height. Um but it will just take time to get there. Um does that answer your question? >> Yeah I was specifically asking about the caliber. So two and a half two to three inch caliper um red maples are are

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pretty pretty small and pretty young. Um, of course, larger caliber trees are more expensive. Um, >> I think it's a good point though, Addy, because, you know, one or two sizes up from that is going to make a big

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difference uh right out of the gate, >> right? >> Um, and I I think that my I I was going in the same direction as you were like one of my biggest concerns about this whole plan is the accessory building. And I do really appreciate the work Jose that you've done with Dwight and you

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know re kind of thinking about this the planting plan because I do think it makes a huge difference. Um I can't remember if I said this at the last meeting but I do feel like you know fire stations are a point of pride I think for towns and and I don't think

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Carlile is any exception to that. Um, we are very proud of the the history of our fire department and the services that they provide all of us as towns people. Um, so I I have less concern about the structure, the brick structure of the

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fire station itself, but the accessory building is really kind of the eyesore that I'm really hoping that we can diminish as much as possible. And I think by by spending some, you know, on the scale of project costs here, some

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very incremental small incremental cost to get some bigger trees right out of the gate. Um I think would make a big difference. Um specifically in that area, um >> yeah, >> so that's that's my my feedback.

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you know that two and a half to three inch caliber like th those are I was trying to hold my hands up but that I mean that's like the size of a donut you know probably not even a bagel right so um I I think if we could go to you know

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a five or six inch caliper like that that's going to be a tree that's going to have more substance to it obviously um so that would be my >> okay >> my cinnamon roll size

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I'm looking for at least a bear claw. >> Yeah. So like maybe this like trees directly in front of the out building like >> these four or five main um trees. Yeah. Okay. >> I think maybe Yeah. The street trees can be a little smaller, but the ones that

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are uh truly there for screening >> is would be helpful to get ones that are um a little bit larger and more substantial when they go in. >> Okay. Yeah, we can definitely accommodate that. Okay.

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More comments on the landscape plan, our site plan. I had a signage question if nobody else has has comments and I will open it up to the public for questions and comments after the planning board's done with site plan questions.

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Could you pull Could you pull up the signage schedule again? >> Yeah. So, yeah. Uh, one second. So, yeah, this is only the signage pertinent to the to the to the way finding.

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>> Yeah. So, I feel like you you've done such a good job um at delineating and sort of making that the the the landscape really I think helps guide visitors to the the the right entrance. So, I think my question is, do you

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really need both of I think that the signs all look very different and they're all different shapes and sizes, and I kind of want to see them all the same size, but my question is, can you can you get rid of the third one down and just say like entrance this way? because I think I I don't think I think

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now the entrance to the building looks like the entrance to the building and I don't know that you're going to have to necessarily tell people. But um I just feel like sometimes simpler is better and you might have too many sign types. That's just my opinion. Um, I do a lot

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of signage on campus, but um, other people. >> Yeah, >> agree that. Yep. >> We can do that. >> I I think it's like a third rail, Sarah, because I have so much sign scar tissue

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from the work we've done in the center of town that I didn't even want to bring it up. But, um, Um, I I don't think it's I look I don't This is total conjecture. I don't think there's going to be a big issue with people like not adhering to the signs

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or, you know, clogging things up. So, I think less is more in my opinion. >> Yeah, I would agree. That's what I'm getting at. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, remove that one. While we're on the topic of signs though, I would en encourage a little

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bit more um detailed specificity around the um no dumping. And you know, as I understand it, you you're not supposed to take snow from outside the zone one area and put it inside the zone one area. And I don't know that that's clear

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from the signage that you've um that you've delineated. This is for the back of the site, so it shouldn't confuse the public, but it should be informative to future um operators and snow removal

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contractors for how to treat um the the sensitive areas in the back of the site that just the one that it seems like there's just one sign that says sensitive area, no dumping. But yeah, that's where I'm getting at. like maybe like like add one more sign there and

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one more here that calls for the like start of the song one so it's clear delineated like where that is is that kind of your thought process there okay >> okay yeah we can definitely do that can do something like that and then find

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like that that right location and then you know whoever is going to be the the the snow plow you know it can be clear to them like once you see that sign you can't really you know bring any snow from outside of that sign and of that area and put it in there. Yes.

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>> Right. Other planning board comments on the site plan? Seeing none, um I wondered if there's any Christina, did you have a question? if you could state your name and address for the record. >> Hi. Um, thanks Christina Christo Lopolis

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um Hemlock Hill Road um and I am co-chair of the environmental sustainability committee. Um question about the new um access to um the the well. Is this um for a future access or would this be um currently? Uh my

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concern is depending on where um it the new access would actually be, it could end up meaning um um destruction of additional habitat that may not be necessary. So, does it make sense to

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just have it done all now as opposed to >> um expanding later on, maybe like five years down the line or in the future? >> Good question, Joe. Were you were you thinking this would be a change that we would be in the permitted set?

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>> I do. Yes. I think it should be accounted for now and and and clearly marked out that that's the intent. Um but again, um and I'll say this with a caveat, but if the D comes back and says it's a private well, then this is not

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needed. But my concern like we mentioned before with Eric brought up is if the needs of the structure change in the town increases usage of it and it kicks it off into a public well scenario and we're back into this conversation again. Um, so my inclination is to plan for it

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now with the realization that although it may not be >> out of the get-go, out of the gate where it's a public well, it may be in five 10 years when the usage possibly changes based on the town's needs. >> Yeah. >> I I would just add that like even if

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it's a private well, I mean I I have a brand the house in the center of town that I own across from the library. I have a brand new well there that I had to spend a ton of money last year. it's only four or five years old to replace the pump, you know, and um they needed a

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truck there. So, I just I feel like I totally agree with Joe like public or private, we need to I I think we should create the access point, get the permission from ourselves, um as the you know, arbiters of the scenic road situation to put a

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gate in there. And, you know, I I I hear Christina's concern and I I agree with it in in concept. I don't think it need certainly is not going to be like a lot of infrastructure. It's just like a cleared trees so that a you know a four-wheel drive, you know, service

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vehicle can can access it. I don't think it needs to be certainly not paved or anything like that, but it needs to be accessible. Um >> yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, even even if it's a private well, it will need service at some point. whether a pump fails, pumps are leaking, they

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need to replace pipe or whatever the case may be, it'll happen at some point. This question is when >> if I may follow up. Um so, uh my point being that um one path that would work or one access that would work for both

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to start with makes more sense than having to um create that in the future. So, thank you. >> Thank you. I think we agree with you on that, Christina. Um, okay. No other public comment. I

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don't see any other hands raised. Okay. Um, can we move on to the architectural portion of it then? Matt, I think this is probably your You want to share your screen? >> Oh, uh, we'll just Yeah, we'll carry on with Hostway slide deck. Um, so, uh,

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just a just a couple of quick updates. We didn't make any large changes since the last time we spoke. Um, just a few things to note here at the at the main entry. Uh, one, we got rid of the large uh 80 that was up in the top left corner. Um, there were some comments

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that that was sort of distracting and conflicting with the um cast medallion uh with the fire department seal on it. Um, so we've removed that. Um, we added it as just uh signage that's on the transom over the main entry. Um, so that

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takes care of that uh required need to to have the number on there instead of it screaming in your face. The other thing we did um and this actually um I think this came out of here as well as the building committee. There were some comments on the uh four metal wall panel

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at the window and its alignment or misalignment so to speak with the pre-cast band of the existing structure. So we we worked with our with our product rep um and working within their nominal sizes were able to create a a 6-in panel at the at the window head uh

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that allowed us to to use the wider panels uh down below that that then fell in line with that with that pre-cast band. So now that there's there's sort of a continuous line that transitions between the two materials in two different buildings. Um

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that was pretty much it with the change on this elevation. Um if you want to go to the next slide, hose. I did I did make a note at our last presentation that that you may want to consider uh the pre uh fabricated canopy structure over the lobby making that red

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similar to that decorative light fixture that sits just below that just to give that a little bit more pop and a little bit more presence at the street. I think we're comfortable with it either red or black or that gray to match the metal panel. Uh whatever the board determines

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is most appropriate. I think this stands out a little bit more as we get to the zoomed out view from the street. Gives it a little bit more presence. Um, so you want to go to the next slide, Jose. Again, this is this is the view from the street. Um, I would note we we dropped

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off a number of uh material samples for the board's uh consideration, both brick um the formed metal wall panel uh at the lobby and the insulated metal wall panel for the out building. And originally what we had proposed was sort of a deep

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um deep channeled uh profile for the outbuilding cladding system. There was sort of a deep ribbed horizontal section and the comment we received was to there was a there was a three options that we had provided. um the the option that was

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ultimately recommended or or at least that some those that had commented on it were leaning towards was a little bit shallower of a of a groove. It had more of a board and batten architectural look to it in a way. Um and so this rendering

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has been updated to indicate that you certainly can't see much of it because it's it's behind the screening of of the landscape. Um if you go to the next slide, hose again same view. This just shows that canopy uh rendered in red um for your

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consideration. Uh in the next slide and and again this is the the view from the from the sort of staff side staff entry uh showing the updated screening um but no changes architecturally

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um to what we've seen or presented in the past. So this this view is still effectively the same. any um the next slide, Jose. Uh it was it was requested that we just have a have a straight on elevation architectural elevation of the

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outbuilding. So I I did provide that so we could see the joints um in that elevation. If you zoom in a bit houseway, it's a little hard to read here. There's a couple of lines horizontally in red that you see there. Um those are the seams. the the rest of

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the the sort of four panels there are full full sheets. Um they can make these in really long runs so they're continuous. Uh and those are those are sort of joints where the where the panels come together. They're really not noticeable. Um but we did want to highlight that because it was requested.

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Um >> Matt Matt, it does look like that still reflects the more deeply uh profiled version siding option. Um I I went to town hall today and looked at looked at the different

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samples and and um it looks like they kind of fall into two different camps. Um there's one that's like deeply profiled, which is what this looks like, and then there's one that's pretty much flat. Um I mean, it's it undulates a little, but it's not like there's a I

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didn't see that there's like a shadow line created like a faux clabard or something. Um, >> let me um if I could steal the screen host way I have the uh >> Thank you. I do have uh that product up

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here. So, if you can see that that's a view of what these this panel looks like. This is sort of more of a zoomed out version on a on a larger scale. So, you do get a little bit of a shadow to it. Um, but yes, it's not it's not

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very deep. It's it's pretty subtle compared to that deeper profiled version. >> Yeah. My my guess honestly kind of where I'm landing right now is that I don't think we're going to love any of those options. So, uh I think focusing our

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energy and resources on screening is probably a more efficacious uh pursuit here. >> You pull those renderings back up. >> Matt, do you have the front elevation of the like the garage door elevation of

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the building? >> Um yeah, actually, if you want to pull up the the drawing sheet that I sent you, Sorry, I didn't notice. I was muted. I was saying, oh, what do you want me to pull up, Matt? >> The uh the sheet of the out building

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drawings that I had emailed you earlier. >> Yes. One second. this. Oh, wait. I'm not sharing my screen. No, sharing the wrong one. Sorry. Uh,

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what about what about now? There it is. Yep. So if you zoom into the uh top left image. So that's sort of that front elevation. >> Did you submit these officially? >> Um

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I I don't believe these were included. >> Okay. on the last submission >> after. Okay. >> Yes, I will send it. Or Matt, I don't know if you want to send it. >> Yeah, definitely. I can send that. >> What were you thinking for the garage

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doors? >> That color? I assume they're metal. What's the >> Yeah. So, these are these are where the overhead doors where we were going to reuse the existing that were taking off of the old the uh existing building. So, those we were going to reuse.

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>> Can you remind me what color they are? I don't remember. Sorry. >> No problem. Uh the existing ones are white. >> Can they be painted? Um, they could be >> I think we might want them painted. Otherwise, they're the only white,

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you know, significant areas on the facades there. >> Yeah, I would agree. The the the white doors now are noticeable. So, if they could if that could be muted with a color to match the building or something

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that's equally possessive, I think that'd be good. >> Definitely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Matt, correct me if I'm wrong, but is this what they look like? This is like one of the old renders that we had before that somehow got to the back.

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Is is that what they look like, Matt? Similar to that >> pretty much. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, those are really going to stand out in that dark gray metal panel building. >> Yeah. >> Same with the person door. Uh O1A.

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>> Yep. Yeah. We can make that the same as the uh as the uh cladding. >> I feel like referentially like making them black to match the black of the new garage doors in the uh fire station itself

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might be a nice um tie. Um, other questions from planning board. Do we want to jump to the um material samples unless people have more questions about the elevation? Actually, let's let's

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stick with the um comments about the color of the um the marquee. um over the front door the sort of red versus um gray or black or whatever it is to match

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the metal panel. >> Yeah. You want to go back to those renderings? >> Yes. Thank you. And I can let me see if I just played my view really quick to give

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perspective of I'm going to zoom in a little bit just so you can have a sideby-side comparison pretty much of what that is. So when you mentioned this last meeting I and you said it might be red I was

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very skeptical >> but I like it. So, I actually do think that pop of color does sort of say fire station entrance and um I think it's I think it's nice. Curious to hear what other people think. >> I agree. I like the red better.

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>> I agree. I agree. >> I just thought it was the wrong red given the red of the sign and the red of the light. >> It just feels too there's too much blue in it. But I'm sure it's just a stock color, right?

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No, whatever color we we would like. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, if you were to if you go to the rendering that shows the sign out front and this >> is the sign right there. >> Yeah, the sign's going to be your

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traditional that fire firefighter red. Um, which which we can match that. >> Yeah. So, there there you see them together. I mean, maybe it doesn't matter. It just feels kind of off. I don't know.

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>> I like the subtlety of it. It's kind of um like a crimson, you know, like um it's a little bit a little bit on the on the DL from the from the typical fire engine red. >> I like the canopy color red, but I think

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the light fixture is the wrong like those they don't match. And again, this is probably just a rendering >> rendering issue, but I feel like they should be the same tone of red. >> That's the tough one because the globe uh so we can do we can do the globe two

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ways. We can do it as the static red globe and they come in that one red globe color. >> Um or or we could um you know, which which we don't have in the project right now. We can we can do it as is as a clear globe with a RGB module and then

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we can tune it through the lighting to get it to the exact color we want. >> Well, but that's only when it's on, right? >> It's only when it's on. Yeah, exactly. >> So, it matters less when it's on because it's Well, when is this on? Is this on every

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night? >> Just at night. Yeah. >> Oh, so it does I guess it does matter. Um, I was thinking it was more of a an emergency is happening, the light turns on kind of thing. Um, I don't know. It just feels off that the it there's definitely more yellow in

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that red. Um, but it it probably doesn't matter. I'm wearing two different color tans today. So, do we want all three of the reds here to be the same or different? And

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how much different? Or the two by the entrance the same and sign out front different? I don't know. This isn't my This isn't my forte. So, I'm I'm stepping back and I'll let you guys with the color people to go at it. I'm just asking a question.

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>> Is this a decision that we have to make tonight or just knowing that the board prefers a red as opposed to the to the uh to whatever that other color mocha color is? Um, is that enough for now, Matt?

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Yeah, I mean we can certainly can continue to refine the color and and correspond back to the board with, you know, more detail as as it becomes available between the light fixture and what our options are with that. What the, you know, what what various colors we would recommend for the for the

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canopy and pull some, you know, some up there with a fan deck of paint colors and figure out what panone it needs to be or rail color, >> right? Because I imagine if it's a custom color regardless, that's not going to change the price, right? So, >> right,

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>> I think that makes sense. I'm hearing red from everybody, but we can weigh in on the the precise red later. >> Okay. Um, what was the next piece of discussion? Um,

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>> brick. >> The brick. Yeah, the the material samples. Julie, did you get a consensus from people that gave you a gave you input? I did get a consensus from the four people that gave me input, but I know there's been a few other people

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who've come by and seen the materials and I don't know what they think. >> I felt that I could not make a decision without seeing it in context and I couldn't see it in context. So, I support uh the consensus of the others. >> Ditto.

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So, I had I had a couple of favorites that I can share because they looked closest to me. So, do you want to hear those? They may or may not align with the consensus you've already heard, in

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which case it won't matter. Um, to me I thought the um Continental 550 mod or the

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Glengary Lawrenceville modular to me looked like the closest. >> Those were the two that everybody that I spoke with thought were the best. >> Yeah, I like the Lawrenceville one.

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That's what I like from the photos. I didn't get down to see it in person, but those were the photos. I I also would agree. >> Do you want to pull up the photos, Julie, or somebody? >> Yeah, I can pull them up. Give me a second. >> Um

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And if you know if we get to the point where we've got one or two that we reach consensus on now that you know once we get through town meeting have the mason on boarded we can work with the mason to provide you know additional options that you know maybe take your concerns that aren't addressed through these sample boards and

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>> get into the actual product that gets released. >> So here's one photo. I have a couple pictures of these two. These are the two. So, this is the standard 550 and this is the Lawrenceville. Um, let me just >> Matt, would you ever do a larger sample

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like where we've got, you know, something like 10 square feet or something that we can we can see. Um, >> it's I can get I I can get um so uh the Mason reps, you know, ahead of doing any mock-ups or anything like that more in

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the field. Um, they'll typically we can get them to do a twoft x two foot panel with mortar. So that >> I was going to say because the mortar makes a difference too. Like those samples with the white background is different than the kind of taupe mortar that's there. >> Yeah. >> Which believe it or not in my experience

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make a huge difference. >> Yeah. >> So the other thing in this one you see is this is unweathered brick. So the brick will also change as it weathers. So the the background you see here is is protected >> inside.

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>> Yeah. So well, it's not quite inside, but it's protected. So that's the other thing to think about is that I think I agree with all of you that this the right-hand one is something that will probably weather more closely to what we

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have than anything else. I I think that the inclusions in the left sample are not realistic, >> right? That the the deformed kind of nature of those are not

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really represented in that. I mean, unless to your point, Brian, like the in other places where there's more weather, there's been more kind of pitting or um spalting or something like that of the brick itself. But um

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>> I I completely agree with your comment. I I feel like right it's it's it's trying to mimic through uh its formwork when they stamp the bricks that sort of natural water struck brick aesthetic at a lower cost. And to me that always feels like, you know, kind of like when

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you get vinyl plank flooring that has that embossed wood grain in it. It's so fake because even if you have a hardwood floor, like the wood grain is not embossed. It's inherent in the material. So, it it does feel like it's trying to fake it a little bit more for me, which if you were asking my opinion, the one

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on the right I I would I would probably lean towards personally. >> Yeah, 100%. The one on the left to me looks looks um like you might go up to it and tap it and it's uh foam >> Disney World. >> I think the color variation in the one

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on the right too is a little bit closer to the existing could vary even a little bit more. The one on the right looks like the just the the top row or the ones with the variation and if you look on the on the brick behind it's a lot more variation

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than those. it does seem that way, but it's also often, you know, what you're getting just in that sample piece, right? So, um, and I think, you know, it's it's going to be impossible to match. And so, the question then becomes, if you're not

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going to match, what are you going to what are the characteristics that you're going to favor and bring forward in the in the um extension? And I think you know what I'm seeing is so for example in the one on

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the right the the full size width full width brick on the on the top row has that sort of like block pattern on it that you then see in the background above kind of in the middle. You see that same kind of block patterning. Yeah.

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>> Um and then you've got like um that the one in that top row again where you have all the variet the variation. You've got that one piece that's kind of more of a consistent

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solid color and you've got some of that as well within um the patterning or the the original brick in the back. I'm looking specifically at the kind of solid iron color one that's straight up from

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that that solid taupe color sample. So, I think I think kind of those consistent patterns matter more than um trying to find something that's got

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the same kind of level of variety of color um as what's in the back. >> I I think you made an excellent point, Grady, because Grady Addie um >> nice to meet you, Adams. >> Yeah.

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Um because um who I don't know sometimes they print I didn't notice it on these how many different um bricks there are in their suite and if there are for example if this represents the entire

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variation that they offer um then we would know exactly what the spectrum of the variation is right but if this is only a subset of the different variants that they produce um it's hard for us to then extrapolate based on what we haven't seen yet. So that's why I

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started by asking like for a larger sample size so that we can see um we can kind of better understand what the full spectrum of the different variants um would be. Um >> and we can ask the general contractor

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for that as a mockup later your way. Right. Just because this the manufacturer won't necessarily provide it doesn't mean the GC can't. >> No, that's why it's it's I think it's worth us buying again like 10 square feet and doing a quick markup. Um

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>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Any other planning board comments on material selection? or or other um other of the architectural changes. >> Did the board confirm the preference for

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the outbuilding material? >> Not really. No, >> we don't have photos of those, do we? Um, did you get any feedback on those from people that were able to come by? Yeah, so the cons I actually got consistent feedback on that as well that it was it

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was red in color and it did it wasn't as deep, but it was like a little bit deeper than the ones that were to like seemed very flat. Um, so there was a little more relief than the completely flat ones. Obviously, the color is not

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um important. It's just that in case people don't remember what they looked at, it was the red one that everyone like preferred in terms of the relief. Um, and I believe that was what Matt was intending with his new rendering if but

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I don't want to speak that. >> Yeah. Which it doesn't seem like it might have come across. Um but our intent is how we modeled it was through the material that the consensus was formed around. Um

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>> yeah. So you can't tell that it's red, but So, it's the lower piece there. >> Yeah. And that cutout that he's highlighting is what I think people liked about it is because it's deeper than some of the ones that are like very flat.

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>> Um, but not as deep as the one that's, >> you know, right in the middle at the top. >> Sorry, I've been talking to myself here. Um um so I I think like this one has a huge obviously very deep relief. This one has

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another deep relief. Um those two are kind of out for me. But I'm assuming that this I just don't know what the kind of periodicity of this groove is. Um if that's meant to look, you know, if if it's this is probably I don't know 8

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inches or something this distance. Um, so that kind of starts to approximate like a wide clabard um, if this is being installed horizontally. So if that if this groove repeats at that same like 8 in cadence

403
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um, then we're starting to get to I think something that approximates some kind of rural vernacular that we're used to. >> Yes, that's that's exactly it. Yeah. Whereas I felt like this one and this

404
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one um were just kind of like blandly undulating without much definition. Um this one I wasn't really sure how to interpret that. Um um

405
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so yeah, there were there were three there were three samples there and six pieces and you got to kind of put them together. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. So the the two the two deep ones uh top left and middle >> Yeah. >> Uh those go together. Uh the

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middle left and far right one go together to create that subtle undulation. And then the bottom two kind of go together but they they kind of they they don't tell the whole story of that of that profile. >> Okay. Do you have a section of that like

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a what a single like kind of a cut sheet or dimension sheet that would show kind of what the different you know nominal dimensions are of those different um aspects >> um >> because it sounds like we're pretty close on that um based on what Julie

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said. Um but I think it would be helpful to just get a a section detail with a dimensioned section detail. Yeah, I don't have one dimensioning the exact profiles. Uh, we can put that together pretty quickly. >> Okay, I think that would be helpful. >> Yeah,

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Greg Zera, did you have a a comment to share about the brick and the metal panel? >> Well, thank you. I couldn't figure out how to raise my hand, so Okay. >> Yeah. Uh well I just on the the brick uh blend to match the existing um sometimes

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uh companies like Glengary will allow blending uh for a premium. I just don't know if that's uh available for our brick type, but perhaps something to uh uh to pursue.

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Um and on the uh metal panel uh Matt uh specifically at the entryway the the horizontal lines uh meet really nicely on the outside corners. Uh will the product that we're specifying allow uh

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for outside corner mitering or will we have a closure cornerboard like uh metal trim piece? Yeah, great great great question and I I neglected to address that because I knew I knew you were going to ask that question if I didn't address it. Um, we did I did confirm we

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have specified and and we'll be we'll be getting mitered uh mitered manufactured corners for for the uh metal panels. So, no no corner trims that are being omitted from the renderings. Those will truly miter at a at a sharp edge like like they're rendered. >> Oh, that's uh that's that's great. Um,

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and really as a followup, would the um outbuilding metal panel uh have uh corner pieces, closure pieces, etc. I didn't see any around the doorway openings or at the corners. Um, how does that product come the way that we've

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specified it? >> Uh, similarly with with with corner profiles. So, there wouldn't be a big corner trim detail. It would it would just wrap the corner as well. >> Very good. Thank you. >> Mhm. >> If I can just um make a comment on the

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mixing of brick. Um Greg, you may be suggesting that um that the manufacturer mixes it in a particular way so that it comes in in the you know it gets delivered already mixed so it's easy to place. If that's

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the case, I could support that. My experience with having the uh brick layers mix brick themselves is that it's never random enough and by the time you get to look at it and you you can't actually punch list that

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because it's already it's already morted in place. Um and so I would I would advocate for um going with a either you know the manufacturer premixes so that the the delivery of the material is such that it's there the brick layer doesn't

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have to do anything active to mix it. Um or just stick with a premixed um or pre-esigned set of brick. Okay. So, um I would like to open it up to public

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unless planning board has further comments or questions. Eric, were you trying to say something? I wasn't sure if you were accidentally muted. I was just suggesting that um the outbuilding unlike the pre-itered corners for the front entry

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um I thought the rendering actually showed corner boards and I'm wondering if that's actually more of a um appropriate detail um in in in that particular application. But um I don't I don't know that we have to parse that right now.

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Um, I think if if we know that the preiter corners are an option, that's the hard part. If we end up with like butt joints between those panels and a corner board, then I I assume, Matt, that that's easy enough to achieve as well. >> Yeah, we can we can certainly work that

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out whichever way the the board prefers. >> Okay. Um, >> okay. Um, I'd like to open it up for public comment if we have any on the architectural renderings or drawings. You could raise your hand. Not seeing any. Julie, do you see any

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hands? I'm >> not seeing any hands. >> Okay. Um, so I know we have town meeting in a week. I feel like we have a couple outstanding issues that we'd like to see. Um,

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I assume the well I assume the hope was to get the the site plan review wrapped up before town meeting, but I feel like between the the few major pieces of the with the access up to the wellhead, we might want to see and um

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there were a couple other questions. Actually, that was probably the the the biggest one. Do people feel like they're ready to vote on this tonight or do we want to see another round of revisions with conditions? I feel like I'm prepared to vote and

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that most of what we talked about or all of what we talked about can be managed through the decision with the conditions. >> I agree. >> Agree. >> Yep. materials. >> Sarah, do you want me to screen share the decision, the draft decision?

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>> That would be great. Thank you. >> Okay. I was just updating it a little bit on the fly um to try to incorporate some things from tonight's discussion. Um so I sent this around to Matt and Jose

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earlier today as well. Um so I'll just walk through it. So there's the just the basic information about the application. what they're seeking here is a site plan review information about the public hearing um and then a list of materials

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submitted. I did note a couple things that I thought that we had um well we don't have at least I don't have updated exterior elevations that I'm aware of. Um and then also I thought the

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site photometric was updated. Sorry, but the plan that it was in the latest packet has a date on it that I think was before it was updated. So maybe I'm just forgetting what month it is. Um, and let's see, the rendered elevations

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that were provided for tonight's meeting are untitled and undated, and I I think that they should be more specific so we can be more specific. Um, and then I do need I did see that you have elevations and I think I saw floor plans in there for the out building. So,

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please submit those and I'll include them here. >> Yep. >> Um, and then I would will want you guys to review this decision so that you can make sure I didn't get anything wrong. So, for example, if I'm referencing a plan that's been updated that I just don't have, um, I just want to make sure

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I reference the correct information here. Um, and then I did get some other materials. So, we have a finalized peerreview letter from Lantech. They looked at the updated storm water calcs and storm water report and all of their conditions um were satisfied. They do

435
02:07:14.400 --> 02:07:29.679
have a condition requiring additional soils testing that I in that I kept that one. They they thought should be conditioned in this permit. Um, but everything else was addressed. Um, and then the conservation commission issued an order of conditions on April 1st and

436
02:07:29.679 --> 02:07:45.280
the board of health issued a sewage disposal construction permit on April 25th. So, I have those um, and reference them in this decision. Um, and then there's the project overview, which I just reviewed today to make sure it's still accurate. Um,

437
02:07:45.280 --> 02:08:01.840
and the number of parks and spaces I believe is correct. And then there's the findings. So, this references section 7.6 of the zoning bylaw. and just the standard kind of um things that you you need to to find with the site plan review. Um

438
02:08:01.840 --> 02:08:23.239
so I don't know if you want to take a minute and just review them and make sure you agree all these things are being met or if I should keep scrolling. Just give me a thumbs up when it's time to keep going.

439
02:08:38.159 --> 02:08:51.920
I think you can move on. >> Okay. All right. And then so then there's just findings like related to specific topics. Um and so this is just this most of this hasn't changed. I don't think I just verified that it's

440
02:08:51.920 --> 02:09:10.800
all still true. Um, circulation. Let me see. There was there were a couple I did modify. So, I just noted here that the the order of conditions. Um, and then the the updated peer review letter here. Um, I had I have some language from the

441
02:09:10.800 --> 02:09:27.280
fire chief regarding the water supply that just makes this paragraph a little more specific. So, I'm going to include that. Um, but it doesn't change doesn't really change it. It just makes it more specific. Um, and this is just a note that this determination is still pending. And then

442
02:09:27.280 --> 02:09:42.159
I was wondering about access. You guys talked about that today. Um, so I can take this out and add a condition later. Um, and I was wondering about the wetlands in the area. Um, so on the plan, the wetlands flags only extend

443
02:09:42.159 --> 02:10:00.040
partway to the north. Um, and I'm I'm curious if the wetlands are going to need to be delineated and confirmed um, just to make sure that the well is outside of the 100 foot buffer. Um, and if that needs to happen prior to building permit

444
02:10:00.239 --> 02:10:17.199
question for anyone to answer. Um, our conservation administrator is on vacation this week and it's something I just noticed on the plan today. So, >> so our our goal from the design team is to get it designated. Um we've done it conservatively like we actually um had

445
02:10:17.199 --> 02:10:32.400
information to kind of like digitize where the proximal location is and we added some buffer to make sure that we were outside with the limit of work. So we feel confident but yes we it's it's on the works like we we need to delineate it as you know final step to

446
02:10:32.400 --> 02:10:49.760
make sure that um it kind of like doesn't fall within jurisdiction but we feel confident about it but yes it will be delineated. Okay. Okay. And so for subt I I mentioned the board of health approval lighting. They

447
02:10:49.760 --> 02:11:07.199
added a a light fixture to the site. So I noted that. Um signage. I just noted that they have the actually I probably should update this because I feel like there was a little more information provided tonight. Um, and I don't know, Jose, had you sent the

448
02:11:07.199 --> 02:11:24.719
that signage package to me as part of >> Yeah, I think you might be correct. I think sheet CD502 has the the table um, the sign schedule and then CS 101 calls for the actual location of the plans. So we will that information you showed was

449
02:11:24.719 --> 02:11:40.560
not additional because it looked like some of the signs looked different to me but >> no it should be the same as submitted last week. >> Okay. >> Which we will slightly tweak per the comments we got today. Um adding a few signs and removing one but yes you do

450
02:11:40.560 --> 02:11:57.199
have the latest one. >> Okay. So those are findings. Some of the planning board's discussion tonight I added under conditions. Um so we'll get there. Um and then there's a list of waiverss. um that were originally applied for when they submitted the site plan

451
02:11:57.199 --> 02:12:13.679
applications. Those are listed here. So, you guys will need to take a vote on whether to grant these waiverss if you're when you're in the when you're in the voting mode. Um and then regarding the conditions, I just broke them down by, you know, when they happen throughout the project. So, there's general conditions that the planning

452
02:12:13.679 --> 02:12:28.960
board has in many different permits about amendments. Um and just noting that compliance is needed um during the course of construction and operation of the site with all the things I mentioned the scenic road here on Rockland Road.

453
02:12:28.960 --> 02:12:44.320
Um and I'll include it more specifically below when we're talking about the access road. Um there needs to be a conversation um at the town level about making sure we have budgeting for funding for the storm

454
02:12:44.320 --> 02:13:02.880
water operations maintenance plan and ongoing site maintenance. That's something that Megan and I have talked to Ryan about and I'm just including in here to be comprehensive. Site plan approval lapses if it's not exercised within two years.

455
02:13:02.880 --> 02:13:19.679
Okay. And then I have some things in here about prior to the start of site preparation, about a construction management plan, pre-construction meeting. Um, this is the condition from Lantech about additional soil testing that should happen.

456
02:13:19.679 --> 02:13:36.719
Um, and then continuing down, this is where I'll specify building. I put some language here, but I'll specify the building materials as a basis of design um that you guys agree on tonight. acknowledging. If you want to take a read of that and let me know if you think I got that right, um, that'd be

457
02:13:36.719 --> 02:14:10.000
good. >> You want to be more specific about the few caliber trees? So, the trees I I have down below right now I'm talking about Oh, sorry. You're looking at this. I was I was wondering if you liked this language for the

458
02:14:10.000 --> 02:14:42.840
building materials. >> Um, sorry, I wasn't clear on that. Yeah. >> And then I'll add in references to the specs um tomorrow when I'm back in the office.

459
02:14:44.560 --> 02:15:01.199
Seem good. >> Okay. Um and then these are highlights. I need to actually put more wording here, but I was just listing the things that you wanted changed on the plans. Um, and so I'll go back and look at the tape and be more specific about these unless you want to give me some wording right

460
02:15:01.199 --> 02:15:18.320
now. Um, and I have notes. I wrote some detailed notes when you guys were talking to um >> I think it was three to four five to six caliber trees directly in front of the out building and then

461
02:15:18.320 --> 02:15:33.360
yeah it was deleting the third sign on the signage signage schedule. >> Yeah. Yep. >> Okay. Well, isn't the isn't it the intent to have all the trees in front of the oak

462
02:15:33.360 --> 02:15:51.199
building larger size? >> Well, there there were three or four >> in front of that building. >> But we I think we said not the street trees just like but the ones that were grouped right in front of it but not along the street. >> Yeah, I would I would just say um

463
02:15:51.199 --> 02:16:07.840
change. Yeah, >> it's not really the addition of Right. Because that makes it sound like we're adding trees. We're just changing >> Yeah. Sorry. Right. >> Um >> change trees directly in front of out

464
02:16:07.840 --> 02:16:46.920
building to whatever. >> Just trying to avoid confusion here so it's clear that we get what Eric was trying to get across. Understood. Yeah. Is there anything else that I'm missing that should be in this list?

465
02:16:50.080 --> 02:17:07.359
I guess if they if you if you want them to come back showing an access, right, and have a scenic road. I mean, I'm assuming it would probably need a scenic road. We're moving some trees there and maybe also Stonewall. >> I I would suggest getting it done now. >> Yeah. So, I I have a condition further

466
02:17:07.359 --> 02:17:30.559
down, but I'll just mention it. I'll just mention it here. Access Drive to L. Um, and you know what? We'll have to move it up. So you guys want that to happen soon. Do you guys going to want that in the

467
02:17:30.559 --> 02:18:12.319
next like how soon are you going to want that? Do you think prior to building permit? >> As long as it's accounted for and it's documented someplace, I'm fine with it. Okay. Okay. And then there's conditions during

468
02:18:12.319 --> 02:18:31.080
construction. These these are in a lot of your site plan review documents. I don't know if you all had a chance to look at this when I sent it around earlier or I should pause on it so you can read it now.

469
02:18:47.040 --> 02:19:05.599
Is there any asbestos issues with modifying the existing building? >> Um, possibly. >> Yeah, there's some there's some uh presume so we have an alternate for uh roof recover over the existing apparatus

470
02:19:05.599 --> 02:19:25.800
bays and there's some presumed asbestous in the felts in the builtup roof. Okay. That just kicks off a whole different level of compliance. Gets expensive real quick.

471
02:19:30.000 --> 02:19:53.680
>> Okay. Should I keep going? Yeah. Okay. All right. And then I have the asphalt plan requirement. Um, I didn't know if you had anything else. And then I added an ongoing future

472
02:19:53.680 --> 02:20:13.600
condition regarding protecting the the public water supply wall radius. I need to add more language there, but that's the gist. So, and I'm not sure if this is the right place, but um when I was reading the the

473
02:20:13.600 --> 02:20:30.319
proposal that was put out for bid, um there was no language in the in the documentation that required this plan set to be stamped by licensed individuals, whether they were architects, engineers, etc. Um, and I don't know if that's just an oversight

474
02:20:30.319 --> 02:20:46.880
of the town. Um, but any public project that I've been involved with has required that and I don't see it here. And I just I bring it up to for you Julie maybe to talk with uh with Ryan about, but it seems to seems that that language is missing here. I know it's

475
02:20:46.880 --> 02:21:02.800
implicitly probably understood and the bid set that went out last was actually stamped and all that, but we don't require that as any of our that I've read anyway for that particular um notification that we're requiring stamped documents

476
02:21:02.800 --> 02:21:19.680
because it it just kicks off a whole different level of of responsibility and and liability that protects the town. This may not be the place for it. And I know we're talking about something else, but it's something that um I think

477
02:21:19.680 --> 02:21:34.560
should be discussed with with Ryan and others to to make sure that we're doing our due diligence to make sure the town's protected with, you know, these things that are created and for us. I mean, I certainly think the final

478
02:21:34.560 --> 02:21:51.200
plans that we get should be and I I would be surprised we don't require that some. >> I don't see it. Maybe it was just what I was looking at and very limited, but and I know we've got two other projects. the DPU was coming out and I'm sorry, the DPDW one is coming out in the the police station just went out, but I don't know

479
02:21:51.200 --> 02:22:06.560
if um that that language should be included in there for just standard language for anything we do from a from a building perspective or or town perspective for protection. Someone's legally responsible for the

480
02:22:06.560 --> 02:22:27.439
stamp set. Joe, just just to clarify, you're talking in addition to the stamp set that goes to the building department for the permit, >> whatever it is. So, whatever whatever we're getting as a town, period should be stamped so that we can be assured that the doc that the documents were

481
02:22:27.439 --> 02:22:44.319
prepared by a licensed professional with all all that goes with that, right? >> Yeah. Because the the the building department won't issue a permit without stamps. >> That's fine. I'm just I'm I'm just making a broad statement. It's it's not directed towards June by any means. Um

482
02:22:44.319 --> 02:23:06.200
but just in general for the town, that's something I think we should probably maybe should run it by town council also. You know, should this language be included in future future uh proposals. Anyway, I won't uh I won't go down the rabbit hole anymore.

483
02:23:09.680 --> 02:23:46.080
Is there anything else? You guys can think of. Okay. and Julie, you'll get the material selections in the in the final reading. >> Yeah. When I'm in the office and I can look at them. >> Okay. >> Um >> and the red of the

484
02:23:46.080 --> 02:24:04.640
the red of the entrance. >> Yep. I wrote that all down. What you guys wanted? Um maybe just Yeah, we're hanging red. Yep, I got that. >> So, are people ready to take a vote?

485
02:24:04.640 --> 02:24:19.840
Yeah. Okay. And so Julie, would the motion be to approve the site plan application as amended? >> Um to approve to approve the site plan

486
02:24:19.840 --> 02:24:35.040
for the fire station project. And if you want to make the motion inclusive of the waiverss on the screen, that would be and the site plan decision here in like refers to the plans that you just the latest set of plans.

487
02:24:35.040 --> 02:24:56.720
So you're like approving the plans and the decision and the waiverss all kind of in one >> and we would say subject to the conditions >> subject. Yeah, I probably have a motion actually. Maybe above. Hold on. Never mind.

488
02:24:56.720 --> 02:25:12.319
>> Well, so I'll I'll attempt to make the motion and you guys can correct me. So, I moved to approve the um site plan uh application for the uh Carile Fire Station

489
02:25:12.319 --> 02:25:29.359
and the waiverss as um detailed in the draft decision and subject to the conditions uh outlined.

490
02:25:29.359 --> 02:25:50.080
uh and to be further refined by staff uh of the draft decision that's here. >> Yeah. >> Second. Okay.

491
02:25:50.080 --> 02:26:08.240
>> Roll call vote starting with Eric. >> Adam's eye. I >> guess I >> I >> Lennon I >> Smith I Okay,

492
02:26:08.240 --> 02:26:23.760
great. So, it sounds like we still have some some coordination to do, but um it was good to get this um through tonight before town meeting. So, um thank you all for your time and all your extra effort to work with us on getting this

493
02:26:23.760 --> 02:26:43.120
done. Very much appreciated. >> Yes. >> Our pleasure. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, guys. >> Okay. Have a good night. >> You, too. >> Okay. Um, where do we want to go next? Julie, do

494
02:26:43.120 --> 02:26:59.600
we have people here from New House Wildlife Rescue? >> You do. You have a bunch of people. Um, hold on one second. So, I saw Yeah, we have Jane New House. I'm just going to make them co-hosts so they can talk. You have Melissa Robbins. She's the attorney.

495
02:26:59.600 --> 02:27:15.439
You have Casey Ferrer who is the civil engineer. Um and you have Steven Salowski who I believe is on the board. So, and there are probably others that

496
02:27:15.439 --> 02:27:32.640
I'm missing and so I apologize in advance. >> Great. Well, welcome. Um and thank you for coming. Sorry for um this late hour. Um but we've got a lot on the agenda. Did you want to give a did did one of you want to give a a quick overview of um sort of why you came a little bit

497
02:27:32.640 --> 02:27:49.600
about your organization? Although we did have a lot of information in our packet. So I think we we all could could catch up on some of that and um sort of your your timeline and um what you're hoping to when you're hoping to come to the board for site plan review.

498
02:27:49.600 --> 02:28:05.200
>> Absolutely. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair, and I I really appreciate you putting us on as a discussion item on a very lengthy agenda tonight. So, we do appreciate that. Um, and for the record, my name is attorney Melissa Robbins. Um, um, the attorney for New House Wildlife

499
02:28:05.200 --> 02:28:20.160
Rescue. I also sit on the board. Um, also with me tonight is Jane New House, who I'm sure many of you and Carla are already familiar with, and Casey Ferrer, who is the engineer uh, from and also on the board. Sorry, Casey.

500
02:28:20.160 --> 02:28:35.760
Um, briefly I will tell you uh that we just recently put the property under agreement in Carlile. We're really excited about it. Uh, we've been looking for property for some time. Um, as some of you may know, we've been operating

501
02:28:35.760 --> 02:28:51.600
out of Chumsford uh since Jane started New House Wildlife Rescue. Uh, that property in Chumsford is also Jane's home. Uh, and if any of you took a look at the site plan that was part of the building commissioner's uh, determination request, you can see that

502
02:28:51.600 --> 02:29:06.880
that was getting a little tight. Um, and our uses are expanding and uh, Jane needs to have a home. So, we were looking for a new property and Carile seemed like the right fit. Um, and we were lucky enough to get a property under agreement. Uh, so here we are

503
02:29:06.880 --> 02:29:23.680
today. Um, as you know, we've been determined to be subject to the Dover amendment, and I would be remiss, Madam Chair, if I didn't just quickly thank your staff, uh, Julie, uh, for her patience with me and, uh, the building commissioner for going through this process. Um, I know that, uh, Julie and

504
02:29:23.680 --> 02:29:39.520
this board have gone through the do amendment process before for other educational uses, but, our educational use is probably not like anything you've seen before. Uh so uh Madam Chair, if you just allow I think Casey could give just a very brief overview of our like

505
02:29:39.520 --> 02:29:56.080
day-to-day uses and give you uh just walk through that little site plan that we had um submitted along with our request for a discussion tonight. Uh it won't take long at all. I know we're getting uh late so Casey can be brief. >> Sure. Go ahead Casey. I think you can share Julie. Is that right? If he's

506
02:29:56.080 --> 02:30:16.960
coached so you can share those slides and Casey, you might be muted still. Am I muted? >> No, there you are. Now we can hear you. >> Okay. All right. Uh, can you see my screen? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, I will be as uh as brief as I can. I don't want to take up uh too much

507
02:30:16.960 --> 02:30:32.880
time, but we do just want to introduce New House uh to the board here and then also just briefly discuss a concept plan. So, um, New House Wildlife Rescue, um, it is a a nonprofit that is currently operating out of a, uh, an

508
02:30:32.880 --> 02:30:48.240
existing residence. Um, we take in animals that are mainly affected by human interactions and human intrusion uh, into the local uh, wildlife ecosystem. A lot of these are due to vehicle collisions, window collisions, and other things that actually have to

509
02:30:48.240 --> 02:31:05.040
do with humans. Um, additionally, there are illnesses that are natural. Um and uh new house will also deal with that as well uh to some degree. Um more examples of things are you know animals caught in soccer nets orphaned due to deforestation

510
02:31:05.040 --> 02:31:22.560
or um other interactions with humans uh that are really not natural to their setting. Um so New House tries to step in to try and take care of those animals uh just because they were only harmed by human interaction. Um we don't just protect the wildlife but by removing

511
02:31:22.560 --> 02:31:38.160
sick or injured animals we also protect uh people pets um and then additionally every uh animal that comes through uh goes through rounds of vaccination deworming and testing uh in addition to just the injury or illness that they're

512
02:31:38.160 --> 02:31:53.920
there for. So when they're released back into the wild they're vaccinated uh they're dewormed and they are set up for a healthy life uh thereafter rehabilitation. Um while New House does not have a vet on staff at this time, uh it is a plan

513
02:31:53.920 --> 02:32:11.280
for the future. Uh but even even that aside, uh New House partners with local vets uh to give the very best care that is possible. um in seeking answers for unknown injuries or illnesses, uh there's no stone left unturned and we work very

514
02:32:11.280 --> 02:32:27.040
diligently with local vets uh to make that happen and to make sure that any animal that comes to us can be rehabilitated uh if possible. Um, additionally, as I'm sure people know, uh Nibby is uh calls new house

515
02:32:27.040 --> 02:32:43.040
home. So, Nibby is a beaver uh that was found when uh she was very little. Uh she was deemed to be uh unreleasable due to her habituation with humans um and lack of other beavers around her. Um

516
02:32:43.040 --> 02:32:59.920
additionally uh New House also cares for an educational groundhog uh named Stanley who was deemed unreable due to a an issue with seizures that he has and medications that he requires. um use utilizing these educational animals or

517
02:32:59.920 --> 02:33:16.960
what we call educational ambassadors. Um New House staff often attends um public events at schools, libraries, town halls, um really anywhere we're invited and we can make it to. Um, and the main goal of the public education is not just

518
02:33:16.960 --> 02:33:33.120
to show off animals, but it's really to learn and teach uh the the common public how to interact with wildlife. That's a last resort, but really how to coexist uh with wildlife. Um,

519
02:33:33.120 --> 02:33:50.000
the educational uh adventures have kind of expanded recently. Um, New House has seen an opportunity to work with our first responders uh, as as wildlife calls become more and more um, prevalent and more often. Um, this seems to be

520
02:33:50.000 --> 02:34:05.760
something that is going to be very worthwhile for New House, uh, working with local fire departments, police departments, environmental police, and animal control officers to really make them understand just the exact resources that are available to them to help them respond to these calls and adequately

521
02:34:05.760 --> 02:34:23.359
remove or handle uh, wildlife. um getting to the existing um h home for new house right now. Uh as we said, it's it's currently out of Jane's house. Um so it started just in a in a single family residence. She has

522
02:34:23.359 --> 02:34:38.560
about a half an acre in Chumsford. Um what you see on this left side picture is kind of the main corridor of the rehabilitation room. Um, this is where intakes come in and they get settled and everything that Jane does that's beyond

523
02:34:38.560 --> 02:34:55.439
me as part of her vette experience uh to take care of and you know assess these animals. Um, and then as those animals get older, they move to outdoor enclosures and these enclosures are really situated uh to be kind of like a uh

524
02:34:55.439 --> 02:35:12.560
a safe uh sanctuary of the wild. Um, we don't want them to be feeling like they're in cages. We just need them to be safe and secure but within their own habitat so they can rehabilitate um before they're officially released. Um and then now how how does this fit

525
02:35:12.560 --> 02:35:27.120
into Carlile? So we found a property located at uh 1090 North Road. Um that property is an existing residence. Um that existing residence is within the general residence district B. Um, and it

526
02:35:27.120 --> 02:35:42.319
it's approximately 13.3 acres and mostly wooded. Um, we don't anticipate or intend to take down any of the existing vegetation at the property. Um, really what this property has that that works out really

527
02:35:42.319 --> 02:35:58.960
well is a cleared area already that's kind of terrace from the house down to a pool area and then even lower beyond that. Um, so you'll see the house is located here in the center of the drawing. Um there is a landscaped kind

528
02:35:58.960 --> 02:36:13.840
of bm that drops in elevation till you get to the pool and then there's an additional landscaping area there where we continue to drop uh as you get towards the woods. Um I don't want to um or I really want to stress that this is

529
02:36:13.840 --> 02:36:30.640
not a final iteration of any means. This is more of a concept to kind of show um you know what may be entailed uh in a future site plan filing. Um, so we really don't want to change any of the exterior of the house or the garage or

530
02:36:30.640 --> 02:36:46.800
the pool. Um, the only exterior alterations would be the addition of those enclosures um in in a in a manner that we determine fit once we have a full survey and we have more information on the topography of the property. Um, this was built just

531
02:36:46.800 --> 02:37:02.479
solely based off GIS layers. Um, so it's it's very plus or minus at this point, but we just wanted to give you a a proper concept of of maybe what we could expect u moving into the the site plan phase. Um, I know Juliet asked me some

532
02:37:02.479 --> 02:37:18.560
questions regarding occupancies, parking, um, hours of operation for occupancies. So, there's about 8 to 10 employees. Um, they rotate throughout the day and throughout the night. Um we

533
02:37:18.560 --> 02:37:34.479
don't expect to have more than 10 to 15 visitors on a daily basis including staff um in the peak baby season which would be you know March through August. Um in the in the slower season which is

534
02:37:34.479 --> 02:37:50.479
more of the fall and winter um those will probably drop to five or under. Um really what we see is we have staff come in. Um a lot of times Jane or other staff will go fetch an animal. It's very it's not too common that an animal is

535
02:37:50.479 --> 02:38:06.000
actually brought to the rescue. Um but most of the vehicle trips will be either the new house van itself staff coming and going or um an animal control officer who works with new house often and and wants to bring an animal

536
02:38:06.000 --> 02:38:24.800
directly in. Um, as far as parking goes, currently the entire operation exists off of Jane's 50ft twocar wide driveway. Um, we don't anticipate having a full parking lot for this project. Um, this

537
02:38:24.800 --> 02:38:41.120
driveway is in excess of 600 ft. Um, and the area just at the top of the driveway in front of the house is bigger than Jane's current driveway. Um, so we'd really like to keep the driveway in its current form. Um, and we can operate within those confines.

538
02:38:41.120 --> 02:38:57.920
Um, and then as hours of operation go, there's likely or there will be someone on site 247. Um, we don't anticipate that there'll be a lot of activity vehicles coming and going throughout the night. Um, but just because animals do have feeding

539
02:38:57.920 --> 02:39:12.399
schedules that, you know, require feedings every couple hours throughout the night, there will have to be staff on site and operating the the facility 247. Um, I believe just in a a very dense and

540
02:39:12.399 --> 02:39:29.200
quick uh presentation of of the idea of new house, um, this really wraps me up, but I'm definitely open to any any comments, concerns, or what you would like to see as part of a site plan package. And just uh if I can just add a couple other things. Um in Chubsford uh

541
02:39:29.200 --> 02:39:44.240
we're really good neighbors. As a matter of fact, uh people didn't even know what our address was or that we existed until the little son decided they were going to print Jane's address against her wishes. Um and some of you may have read

542
02:39:44.240 --> 02:40:01.680
some of the stories about um new house a couple years ago when Chsford with a a neighbor that made a false complaint against Jane. So that's how it got discovered. Uh, but on a day-to-day, nothing. Uh, we have no issues with our neighbors. The animals don't make noises. They're not loud. Um, we did go

543
02:40:01.680 --> 02:40:16.960
doortodoor out here to meet our new prospective neighbors and none of them had concerns. There is one neighbor we have not been able to reach out to yet. Um, but we will be talking to them before we close. Um, Jane did reach out to the board of health to see if they

544
02:40:16.960 --> 02:40:32.800
had any concerns. Um, and she is a statelicicicensed rehabilitator. So, as long as her license stays in good shape, that they have no concerns about her uh, animal care. Um, and I would note that our van, we do have a met a van now, too, that also is labeled new house, and

545
02:40:32.800 --> 02:40:49.120
that's uh, another way that people can identify us now in Chamsford as well. It's parked in the driveway. It's not very big. Um, but I think that's it. I mean, what we're doing right now is we actually are completing um, survey so that we can try to get this filed. and Julie was nice enough to send me a

546
02:40:49.120 --> 02:41:03.760
couple of your next meeting dates, prospective meeting dates. So, we're hoping to file um towards the end of this month so we can be on your June or 1st July meeting. Uh that's our intention at this point. Uh since we are

547
02:41:03.760 --> 02:41:19.200
making no changes to the outside of the structure whatsoever, uh we're keeping all of the existing pavement, all the existing infrastructure, and just adding the enclosures. I guess one of some of the direction I wanted from the planning board and uh from staff this evening is just some ideas of what you'd be looking

548
02:41:19.200 --> 02:41:34.800
for from for submittals. Um and if you need any other information for us from us, we would love to hear it and love to hear your initial comments or concerns. And that's it. >> Great. Thank you. Um this certainly seems like something that might work

549
02:41:34.800 --> 02:41:52.720
well in Carlile. Um certainly have a lot of wild creatures roaming around around here. Um, and thank you for your presentation. I mean, I think you you probably have already realized this, but you need to work with Julie closely on all the the required submittals for the site plan review. Um,

550
02:41:52.720 --> 02:42:10.800
I think, you know, um, hearing about your organization and what it does and the number of visitors, even though they're not high, I guess, you know, I think parking you you're going to need to delineate some parking spaces because it sounds like you might have visitors. So, that's one thing we'll be probably

551
02:42:10.800 --> 02:42:25.520
looking for. Um, my other question would be if this is open to the public or public might arrive, I'm assuming it's going to need to be handicapped accessible. So, are you going to need to do some alterations to the exterior of the structure? I think that's something that the the building

552
02:42:25.520 --> 02:42:40.640
inspector will um have perview over, but we would I would wonder whether that would have some impact on the site plan on the outside if there's steps getting into the house. I'm not sure, but um as this is a change of use um for a

553
02:42:40.640 --> 02:42:58.720
business um that's really his the building inspector's perview, but we that's something that we would oversee in if it impacts the site plan. Um and then any signage that you might have would need to right the planning board

554
02:42:58.720 --> 02:43:14.160
if it's would need to would need to fall under site plan um or not site plan review but we planning board has perview over signage. So um I think that's something we would need to review. Um would probably make sense to have it part of

555
02:43:14.160 --> 02:43:29.200
the site plan review I would think. Julie would that make sense? >> Yeah and I mentioned that to Casey in the list I sent him. I believe I believe. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And also lighting if they're going to add any lighting for any reason. >> Yeah. Yep. Thanks.

556
02:43:29.200 --> 02:43:45.680
>> Um so that's it. I think you know Julie can really give you what you need to understand what you need to submit for site plan review and then um you know we often will have comments and questions and and it'll be you know a couple hearings to to come back and review that and it'll be open to the public and

557
02:43:45.680 --> 02:44:05.359
neighbors can comment. Um, but other than that, I'll I'll >> I'll stop laughing and and turn it over to the board for any other questions they might have. >> I have two things I'm curious about. So, for anyone who wants to have horses on

558
02:44:05.359 --> 02:44:19.680
their property, one of the things they have to do is provide a manure disposal plan. um with all of these albeit smaller animals, you got a lot of animals here and is there anything that is going to

559
02:44:19.680 --> 02:44:36.399
require a disposal a waste disposal plan or how is that going to be managed? So, I don't know if that's in our purview or not, Julie, but that's something I'd be wondering about. I >> think that's board of health, but >> Okay. Um, and then the other thing just

560
02:44:36.399 --> 02:44:50.880
under the Dover amendment and I think our council may have kind of pointed in this direction. You have rehabilitation services and you have educational services and the question like I think do applies if

561
02:44:50.880 --> 02:45:07.600
you're predominantly educational, right? Mhm. >> And so I would be interested in like the logs of what are your what is the frequency and number and nature of your educational activities in a given month or in a given quarter or something. So

562
02:45:07.600 --> 02:45:24.160
we have some sense of the intensity of and frequency of those activities. I understand they don't typically happen on site which doesn't seem to matter in terms of

563
02:45:24.160 --> 02:45:41.600
do but that that's I don't know if we can ask for that Julie but that's something that I would be interested in because I think it I don't know wouldn't wouldn't your ability to continue on for as long as you want hinge on remaining a

564
02:45:41.600 --> 02:46:01.680
predominantly educational uh undertaking. >> Madam Chair, I can just answer that quick quickly um if if you would allow um just Miss Landon's question about the Dover use, but we are predominantly educational. Um I think in the in the determination letter that we sent to the

565
02:46:01.680 --> 02:46:16.479
building commissioner, we tried to go through very specifically um what percentages of our use on the existing site are education educational uh but they're kind of tied together because the rehabilitation of the animals is what's educational in nature

566
02:46:16.479 --> 02:46:32.720
whether we're making videos or we have a police officer, an animal officer um or a student or another rehabilitator in there learning. So there is educational components of that as well on the site. Uh but to your point uh that we do have lots of education offsite as well. I think we were actually in Carlile last

567
02:46:32.720 --> 02:46:49.760
week for Carile's route to sustainability uh with Nibby. Jane was there giving a presentation. So we have off-site uh educational uses as well. Um and our educational uses would continue and would expand. Uh so we would continue that do under our do use out

568
02:46:49.760 --> 02:47:07.359
here. That's our intention. If we had to change our use for any reason, we would have to come back to your board if that use stopped just like any other use. Uh we would be back before you. Uh the only use would be able to revert to without coming back to you is our residential use. Uh so if you concerned about that,

569
02:47:07.359 --> 02:47:23.200
we would have to come back to you. Um, and if we had an intention like Madam Chair's point earlier about expanding our uses to allow for public activities out there, which we don't right now, Madam Chair, we would have to come back before you because obviously that would trip more parking areas and uh public

570
02:47:23.200 --> 02:47:39.520
space and probably alterations to the structure which would trigger further site plan review. Uh, so those would come back before you. Uh, so I understand your concerns and we can go through that as part of the site plan review process, but some of those um all of those concerns would be answered before your board if they ever happened

571
02:47:39.520 --> 02:47:56.399
in the future. >> Oh, one one more just thing to mention is your current location is um is who? Somebody's home. >> Yes, it's home. My home. Yes, it's your home. Um,

572
02:47:56.399 --> 02:48:10.960
is there any intention and is it allowable under Dover Julie for there to be any residential like any staff permanently living there? And I'm not talking about 24-hour staffing, right, where people are

573
02:48:10.960 --> 02:48:27.279
cycling on and off of whatever. I'm talking about I mean, this is a residential home. What's to prevent someone from just moving in? And is that contraindicated? Is that allowed, Julie? Like, is there anything we need to

574
02:48:27.279 --> 02:48:43.680
attend to around that? Then I'll stop. >> So, this is a new application of the Dober amendment in my experience. So, that's something I would have to run by council. I'm not sure. >> Yeah. >> Um, I can just answer from Copelman and Paige's perspective from the town of Chsford. Uh, just to Miss Lennon's point

575
02:48:43.680 --> 02:49:00.399
there, um, they this is actually happening in Chumsford, and we did get a do determination in Chsford as well with a resident living there. Uh, so if we had a 24-hour care manager that wanted to live there, um, as long as our predominant use was still educational, that would be allowed. Um, but again, if

576
02:49:00.399 --> 02:49:17.040
we change our use to be more principal use than educational, then we'd have to come back to you. And obviously your town council, your town council is not town council, so they can vet through that as well when we come through the site plan review process if you have any questions about Dover. But that's generally how it works. as long as you

577
02:49:17.040 --> 02:49:34.560
stay predominantly educational in your nonprofit, um you can fit under the Dover um amendment. >> As of right now, just so you're aware, we I'm keeping my current home in Shumsburg. The whole plan was to separate business from pleasure. Um but

578
02:49:34.560 --> 02:49:51.920
our our plan as a board was to have somebody there 24/7 really to some of the animals during baby season especially need feedings every 2 hours overnight. Then also to have somebody on site because we do have uh you know Nibby's a very famous um beaver. She's

579
02:49:51.920 --> 02:50:07.040
been on National Geographic. She's been on People magazine. So just having someone on site to just for security and things like that um it's it's a pretty typical thing that wildlife rehabers uh will do uh especially um on a larger

580
02:50:07.040 --> 02:50:30.800
scale and during baby season. So, can someone clarify what the use of the existing building is between private and and I'll call this public for lack of a better term. Um, how that's being worked out here. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.

581
02:50:30.800 --> 02:50:46.880
>> Yes. So, the interior of the building, the exterior of the building will stay the same. If you saw the picture and Casey, maybe you can go back of the way that new house is laid out now in Chsford. What we This is actually a rehabilitated part of um Jean's home

582
02:50:46.880 --> 02:51:02.800
that is used for the major part of the rehabilitation. There's another room off of there that's also used for that purpose. And then you can see to the right some of the outdoor enclosures. Those are the fenced in areas that we've detailed a couple in that site plan we gave to you. Uh we don't know exactly

583
02:51:02.800 --> 02:51:18.640
how it will be laid out inside of the structure like how these cages will fit in each of the rooms, where the office will be, what you know where the um administrator's office will be. Uh but it'll be very similar. It'll just be on a larger scale than what we have in Chamsford right now. So we have room to

584
02:51:18.640 --> 02:51:35.200
expand and take more animals. And um we can go, you know, we won't have full layouts or architectural plans as to where every single cage is going once we come to you for site plan review, but we can give you an idea of what we think we're going to use for areas just so you can get an idea of how

585
02:51:35.200 --> 02:51:51.439
it would work on a day-to-day basis. But these rooms you're looking at right now, the public doesn't get to come in here. This is not a public area. These are wild animals. They're rehabilitated and put back out to the public. Uh so this is not like a a petting zoo. There's not classrooms that come in here um and

586
02:51:51.439 --> 02:52:07.680
touch the animals as it's the intention to let these animals back out to the wild. So, these are largely kept closed to the public. U the animals that that are out to the public are those two animals that were identified, Stanley and Nibby. They're the only ones that are allowed to be out for educational

587
02:52:07.680 --> 02:52:23.040
purposes because they've been found not to be able to be rehabilitated and they're used for educational purposes. >> Thank you. Yep. But we have a lot more space, Joe. So, we're excited to expand into that area and hopefully we can make a bigger, better place and take care of

588
02:52:23.040 --> 02:52:39.120
more animals, especially this time of year where Jane's house is full of uh small animals in need of care. Julie, do you know how this works with with board of health with with significantly like more occupants in a in a house and septic system or do we

589
02:52:39.120 --> 02:52:55.520
just leave that to the board of >> health? I've asked them um based on that and also just on the the animal like if they have any jurisdiction um I don't remember their answer on the septic. I think they really it's like similar to the building department response I get

590
02:52:55.520 --> 02:53:11.760
is like they just need to know more. >> Yeah. >> Or they could really just ascertain what they need to do. The septic on this property I think was just redone and expanded. So it's like pretty robust. >> Um >> it's actually for more bedrooms than they have right now too. It's it's for a sevenbedroom house and that house is a

591
02:53:11.760 --> 02:53:27.439
is a five bedroomedroom and and just sorry I might interrupted somebody uh board of health in Chumsford uh also stated that our our permit was with the state we're with the state and the USDA so we get inspections from the state and the United States Department of

592
02:53:27.439 --> 02:53:45.439
Agriculture. So um so when we moved to Trumpsford the board of health was like they could deal with you. Uh we do deal with the board of health whenever there's a a positive rabies um animal in the in the town as far as reporting and letting them know that's that's the only

593
02:53:45.439 --> 02:54:01.200
um uh interaction we've had with the board of health so far here. But more than happy to do whatever Carl's board of health needs us to do. >> Yeah. I'm thinking more of of you know wellwater concerns with as Stacy mentioned before with um with animal waste and things like that.

594
02:54:01.200 --> 02:54:18.160
>> Oh for sure. Yeah. We will have um trash removal and and any any biohazard removal. Uh we work with veterary clinics for that as well. >> So yeah and and to your point before about not having full architectural plans. Um I understand that but we we

595
02:54:18.160 --> 02:54:33.920
would want to see some probably schematic level building plans to understand what the use of the building is to that would inform the >> good news is we have the existing site plans and the existing house layout. So, it'll be easy to give the a board an idea of exactly where we think we'll lay

596
02:54:33.920 --> 02:54:52.880
things out. >> Great. Well, unless the any board members have any more questions, I think um we encourage you to work closely with Julie and Noel on the and the other town boards on your application and um come

597
02:54:52.880 --> 02:55:11.920
back to us when you're ready. >> All right. Great. >> Great. >> No, thank you. We appreciate your time tonight. Thank you all very much. >> And thank you, Julie. Thanks again. Bye bye. >> Good night. >> Have a good night. Okay. Um I'm just going to go in order

598
02:55:11.920 --> 02:55:27.439
here of the the um the agenda town meeting articles. Um there's a lot of them. Um thoughts on what people might want to take a position on for town meeting. Um

599
02:55:27.439 --> 02:55:44.080
there's obviously the the bylaw amendment. I don't think we need to take a position on that cuz we're proposing it um with CBA. And then um >> you already did actually. >> We already did. Okay. Thank you. Sorry, I'm tired. Um >> Okay.

600
02:55:44.080 --> 02:56:02.640
>> Um is it appropriate for us to take a position on the fire station as we just approved at site plan review? Do we need to also support it at town meeting? >> I leave that to you guys.

601
02:56:02.640 --> 02:56:20.160
>> Thoughts? >> I mean, I think we can get up and say we voted to approve the site plan. >> Yeah. >> Unanimous vote. >> Yeah, that's a good point. So, vote of seven to zero unit. Yeah. Okay. Um, Julie, do you have to give something

602
02:56:20.160 --> 02:56:37.120
formal to Wayne before or are we supposed to is somebody supposed to stand up and town meeting and do this? >> It's a great question, Sarah. Um, I will let Wayne know and then see what he prefers. >> Okay. Yeah, great. >> Great. >> Um, >> and then there was one other one for

603
02:56:37.120 --> 02:56:58.520
Oh, Julie, it was um >> there's the CPA request. I didn't know if you wanted to take a position on any of those. Um, I was just going to pull up the warrant real quick. See if they are. Um, one second. Yeah, hold on.

604
02:56:58.720 --> 02:57:18.479
Oh, and actually you have Eric Bis has raised his hand. I don't know if he wants to talk about something we just talked about. >> Um, well, let's if you can still pull up the screen, that'd be great. >> Sure. So, there's the amenities building at the high school. Um, the Gleon public

605
02:57:18.479 --> 02:57:39.120
library renovation, the vital records preservation, um, the boghouse design funding and rental assistance. That's the housing trust annual program. So, we could

606
02:57:39.120 --> 02:57:53.760
vote to support all of these. We could talk about them one at a time. Um, does anyone have a preference or do people want to take a position on these? I'm trying to remember if it's customary

607
02:57:53.760 --> 02:58:16.640
for us to do that. Well, we we've not taken positions recently and been chided by Wayne for not taking positions. on CPA things. >> Oh. Oh. Uh, no. Well, we haven't taken

608
02:58:16.640 --> 02:58:33.560
positions on CPA things and um >> you don't remember. >> I I I don't remember taking any positions and but you know, it's only been three years for me. So, other people have been longer. So

609
02:58:35.040 --> 02:58:50.240
>> yeah, maybe maybe this isn't super relevant for us to take a position on. >> I I struggle to do that as a board. I mean, as individuals, that's a different thing obviously, but >> my thought was kind of the the Gleason

610
02:58:50.240 --> 02:59:06.800
Public Library one and the and the Cranberry Bog House design funding are a little bit more planning related, but um maybe not cherry-picking which one to approve or or recommend or take a position on is

611
02:59:06.800 --> 02:59:22.479
is maybe it's better to not take a position on any of them. I I think it's better broadly speaking e even the ones that seem more relevant to us because with the crary bog house you know we don't know

612
02:59:22.479 --> 02:59:38.479
we we haven't seen the site plan we haven't seen a proposal you know there's >> we don't want to leave an impression that we have um that we understand these more than we do basic >> okay >> I do have a slide in my presentation for

613
02:59:38.479 --> 02:59:53.040
the boghouse that mentions like the entities that have expressed ongoing support for the project just like throughout the course of it. Um I don't have a slide about like entities that have voted like to take a position on the actual funding request. We have a

614
02:59:53.040 --> 03:00:09.120
few but um I did include the planning board on my slide of like the fact like like ongoing support because you're supporting me working on it but I can take that take that off if you don't feel like that's a good thing to say. I

615
03:00:09.120 --> 03:00:25.520
mean, there's not even a designation of an amount on this number five. Um, so I mean, I I guess I would feel comfortable saying that we support the endeavor to complete due diligence and research. Um, but I don't. >> So, that's interesting. Thank you for

616
03:00:25.520 --> 03:00:40.800
pointing that out because there definitely is an amount. So, I wonder if it was just left out. >> I think it's because we didn't approve the amount when the warrant was printed. We hadn't approved that amount yet. the CPA's. >> So, it'll be in the motion. It's $200,00 booklet. Yes.

617
03:00:40.800 --> 03:00:56.960
>> Yeah. It's $200,000 and I'm It's pretty specific and I have quotes to support each piece of it. >> Doesn't it infer conflict of interest if we're already approving this? We haven't approved it. >> That's what I concerned about voicing that because it's it's basically

618
03:00:56.960 --> 03:01:11.760
indicating, yeah, we're going to approve it anyway. >> That's the that's the the inference that I get from from doing that. I would probably recommend not doing that since we it comes with plan. So I would say we don't we can't take a position on it

619
03:01:11.760 --> 03:01:27.760
because we're we're going to have to take a position on it further down the line and >> um we don't want to do that. >> Yeah. No, that makes sense, Joe. That makes total sense. >> I support you going, but I I don't think we should make us take a stand on this

620
03:01:27.760 --> 03:01:45.520
that we have to approve it later on. It's not >> No, I think I think you're right. Yeah, that's fine. Um, I don't I didn't I don't know if there's anything else you guys want to vote on. I was just I put it on your agenda as a placeholder in case you wanted to.

621
03:01:45.520 --> 03:02:02.240
>> I don't for the other ones. We haven't, you know, people haven't come to us to ask. So, um, and we don't know a lot about them. So, Okay. Um, excellent. Okay. Um, discussion of process for clustered ROC zoning bylaw. Um,

622
03:02:02.240 --> 03:02:17.600
>> sorry. Do you want to see what Eric's raised has his raised hand? >> Sorry, Eric Ballas. Did you have a did you have a comment on something? >> Yes. Hi. I just um wanted to say um thank you. Good evening. And um the committee certainly appreciates you taking a position during the town

623
03:02:17.600 --> 03:02:33.359
meeting. And for Julie um unless Wayne has changed something, I I don't think you need to clear anything with him in in terms of taking positions, but he does appreciate you uh you know, the various words going walking up to the mic. And Eric, are you speaking on behalf of

624
03:02:33.359 --> 03:02:49.840
um the committee or and could you also state your uh address for the record? Sorry. >> Oh, I apologize. I forgot. I am speaking on behalf of the committee. Uh Eric Falis from No Farm Road, >> but I was speaking for the committee. >> Which committee? >> Uh the fire station building renovation

625
03:02:49.840 --> 03:03:08.240
committee. >> Thank you. >> And we just appreciate you taking a position. Thank you. Um, so for clustered IOC zoning zoning bylaw, I know Julie hasn't had a ton of time. My thought on this was in order for us to make progress,

626
03:03:08.240 --> 03:03:24.800
we take all the criteria that we worked on and MBTA, which were vetted and discussed and discussed and discussed and had tons of public input on. And instead of taking the map and saying like we want to do like all six or eight

627
03:03:24.800 --> 03:03:40.640
acre parcels or 10 acre par parcels and you know how Julie had pulled the um map of the different parcel sizes instead looking at them through the lens of all these criteria that we already thoroughly vetted and saying like huh do we want to stick to major roads and

628
03:03:40.640 --> 03:03:55.680
secondary roads? Do we want to like we want to look at traffic impacts? So, we want we definitely want to look at environmental impacts like all the other things that we already talked about. Um, you know, traffic safety, historic impact, all that other stuff. Are there things that we just would want to take

629
03:03:55.680 --> 03:04:12.960
out like landlock sites? are there. Um, I just feel like instead of looking at acreage of sites, we could maybe ask Noel and Julie to start looking at them with more of a sort of strategic vision in mind in terms of where we we might want to encourage

630
03:04:12.960 --> 03:04:28.640
a cluster development. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but I thought maybe um you know, we had some really good ideas about location and about some development types and I feel like we can really just build on what all the work

631
03:04:28.640 --> 03:04:44.000
we already did um and not start from scratch and just kind of see what where that gets us. But um yeah, and if Julie know I'll have time, you know, we could we could do a brainstorming session or something. Um,

632
03:04:44.000 --> 03:05:02.640
but um, I thought maybe you guys could could start taking a look at that and see what it turns up and we could take a look at it in one of our next meetings. >> I agree with that. >> So do I. I mean, a ton of work, as you say, Sarah, so much work was done. It

633
03:05:02.640 --> 03:05:21.520
would be a shame to not leverage it. Um, >> I'm torn. I it was so much work, but we also touched a tiny proportion of the total number of parcels in Carile.

634
03:05:21.520 --> 03:05:39.399
Like, so I'm a little um I don't know. I'm a little wary of a process that could lead us down the path of like choosing discrete parcels again. >> Okay. I'm >> I'm wary of that. >> Okay.

635
03:05:39.439 --> 03:05:55.279
Okay. instead of looking at sort of like everything more than 15 acres or something like that instead of just like a >> a more arbitrary not arbitrary but acreagebased approach.

636
03:05:55.279 --> 03:06:11.840
>> Yeah. Because the controls would come through the special permit process, right? Where then maybe we can use some of the criteria to right help shape that. I I I'm not totally down on I'm like, well, how else

637
03:06:11.840 --> 03:06:28.479
are we going to leverage all that work we did? But I just I wonder a little bit about what's the end product we're going to get if we start from the where we were last year, which um yeah, that that's all just wanted to

638
03:06:28.479 --> 03:06:46.800
mention. I think we also have to deal with the fact or contemplate the fact that um you know personalization is not a fixed thing even though with MBTA communities it kind of was right um but if we say

639
03:06:46.800 --> 03:07:03.040
something has to be a minimum of 8 acres you can assemble 8 acres right and >> um so I I I there's a part of me that feels like it the question needs to become more about um

640
03:07:03.040 --> 03:07:19.439
it's it's more of a planning question. Meaning where do we feel like it's appropriate to have additional density because the some there's some inherent quality of um our infrastructure that can support

641
03:07:19.439 --> 03:07:36.080
it. You know, roads, um walkability, etc. Those are that's the work we did right in our scoring stuff. That's work we can leverage. Um but but picking picking sites I don't

642
03:07:36.080 --> 03:07:53.040
think is the right approach. um as much as setting criteria for what kinds of sites make sense. >> Mhm. >> And thinking about um you know what is a what is an

643
03:07:53.040 --> 03:08:09.319
appropriate min minimum size from the perspective of and the outcome being what we want which is truly clustered uh development right. >> Mhm.

644
03:08:09.439 --> 03:08:26.800
I just to um the one thing you said that um parcels can be combined. Yes. But if it's a special permit process um they're not guaranteed to get a permit by doing so. Right. Like it's not

645
03:08:26.800 --> 03:08:43.279
like a by right. >> Sure. >> Where oh if I can assemble the acreage I'm good. Right. That so there's more risk involved which will dampen to some degree, right? The prospecting. I don't know what we we're

646
03:08:43.279 --> 03:08:59.200
calling that, but >> yeah. No, I don't say that from the standpoint of um oh, we have to protect ourselves from developers who might um uh pursue this as a as a you know, huge opportunity to unlock lots of

647
03:08:59.200 --> 03:09:14.399
development in Carlile. I say it more from the standpoint of just because we don't have what 8 10 12 acre parcels in the places that we feel like are the most appropriate for this kind of density to happen doesn't mean

648
03:09:14.399 --> 03:09:31.359
that those kinds of parcels can't be created through assemblage. So saying oh well we you know we want it along main roads and we want it closer to the center of town but we don't have any 10acre clusters or 10acre uh parcels in those areas. So it there's an

649
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impossibility. It's a, you know, catch 22, you know, that it's it's it's a it's not a I don't I don't see that as actually as a barrier, right? like um it's a it's a challenge, but if the zoning is

650
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written to be clear that this is what we want and this is where we want it, to the extent that there's risk associated with assembling those parcels, but it's consistent with what the zoning says we are trying to achieve, a developer would look at that and say, "Yeah, I think this is going to make

651
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sense, and I'm going to, as I'm contemplating assembling those parcels, I'm going to go to the town staff. I'm going to go to a board and I'm going to float this idea and see what kind of reaction I get. So Sarah, I didn't mean to um

652
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like shoot down the approach you're interested in taking. I just wanted to name some things that were on my mind. And we got to start somewhere. So I, you know, I I'm open to starting from, you know, MBTA and sort of going from

653
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there. >> Is there a way to do it and actually have it be an overlay district but not call out certain parcels? Because I think you you have a great point, Stacy, like that was really challenging to do. So I don't know, may maybe there's still

654
03:10:56.800 --> 03:11:12.240
a creative way to do it that that allows for partials to be added together or things like that. And it's a you know, I don't know. I'm not being the zoning expert. Um, maybe there's still a way to do it without being as specific. Um,

655
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>> well, I mean, we have time to look at this. It's a blank slate, right? We're trying to create what we think is best. >> Yeah. >> There obviously certain locations that are beneficial for that. >> Question is to Add's point, you know, how do we get there? become a com a

656
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combination of parcels that are that are combined over time or whatever it is to to get the right acreage for the zone etc etc there. So this it'll be a process. I think we still need to go through it. Um

657
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but it is what it is. So, as a segue to um route to sustainability day, can I Stacey and Julie, what did did you hear anything from your um the maps that you had out sort of relating to this?

658
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>> Sorry, Sarah. Did you want to see what Christina has to say if it's related to the ROC discussion? >> Sure. Christina, did you have ROC related comments? >> Hi. Yeah, I do. Um, it's something that I've been thinking about that actually

659
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ties into what Addie was saying. Um, and is, um, sort of thinking a little outside the box. Is is the objective to develop undeveloped land or is the objective to

660
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um increase strategically density? And it can be two different things. So I think you can still sort of protect undeveloped land and increase density by combining um already developed um parcels, excuse me. Um and that is

661
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something that has sort of been going through through my mind and I wanted to put it out there to sort of reinforce what Addie was saying. And also just to let you know um Sarah Wasserman and the ESC have been working on creating a map of Carile that shows uh sort of

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important wildlife connectivity which can also possibly benefit um to to find areas that are um environmentally speaking anyways uh possibly better locations for densification in

663
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comparison to other areas that uh the connectivity um is is important. So I I think that uh just thinking a little out of the box can be beneficial all the way around. So that's all I wanted to say. Thanks. >> Thank you

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uh Stacy Julie. Um yeah, just curious what if if you got any public feedback on on this topic at root sustainability day. Um >> Stacey, do you want to go first? I mean,

665
03:13:55.439 --> 03:14:12.960
>> so um yeah, I mean the overall tenor of the conversations was sort of open, curious, you know, some number of people like, "Oh, good luck starting another zoning conversation." Um

666
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I don't know that we had terribly in-depth discussions with very many people that stopped by. Mostly they were just like, "Oh, what are these maps showing?" and we're like, well, here's right, here's what you get today. Here's sort of a different way of thinking about it. Different outcomes with

667
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different zoning. Um, so I would say overall sort of open, friendly, curious vibe from most people. Um, not a very in-depth conversation in particular that I can remember

668
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having. Um, I guess that's that's how I would describe it. Julie, what >> does that change? We didn't have any like the devil's in the details, right? So, to the extent that we don't have a lot of details, like we didn't get into any like really specific conversations. >> Um, but people did seem to there were a

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lot of people who were like, "Oh, the MBTA community zoning won't get us any housing." And, you know, they seem to understand like why we might continue with a process that would potentially create housing. But, um, >> I mean, I don't know. I heard that from a few people. seem to understand why we

670
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would do it, but they were like, "Good luck." >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Mhm. >> Um All right. Should we keep going to minutes? >> No. Can you screen share?

671
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>> Yes, I can. Um I also I can't access our town server, so I can only pull up the PDFs from the Google Drive. But the only um I'll start with the ones from last week or last month.

672
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So Sarah points out um I had addressed Dwight um accidentally as the town's landscape architect. So, I just struck that to address him as a landscape architect and

673
03:16:10.399 --> 03:16:29.200
not the >> um but other than that, there wasn't any um amendments that were pointed out to me. If anyone has any that they noticed is just right here.

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So, I'll be striking that. >> Unless Dwight would like to be the town's landscaper. >> I feel like we could >> have a little more work to do. >> Not what you signed up for. >> Um, do we have any So, hearing no other

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amendments, do we have a motion to approve the minutes of April 13 as amended? So moved. >> Second. >> All right. Uh, roll call vote starting with me. We're going to go backwards again. Uh, >> Smith I.

676
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>> Lennon. I >> sure. >> I guess I >> may I >> Thank you all. >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I was trying to

677
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do the Guushu uh >> the Guushu pause. >> Yeah. Don't hate. Don't hate. Nothing but love. >> Um and then the next one was just minutes that um kind of slipped through the cracks last year. You had a joint

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meeting with the board of health. Um I'm not even I I guess there was a quorum, but Julie and I were not present. So there also was not a recording. So I um just took the section that um the board of health had approved from their

679
03:18:00.000 --> 03:18:15.520
approved minutes that the board um had discussed. Um but still since you know you guys are mentioned I wanted you just wa look at it before we put them on the website.

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>> I thought that these were a mistake that they were in the folder. So I didn't have time to read these but I was at this meeting. So, could we maybe do this next meeting? >> Yeah, that's fine. >> Unless Unless you have enough people that that were able to read them. >> I I thought we weren't allowed to

681
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convene that meeting, but you know, it was such a while ago that I'm not sure on that. You know, like we never convened a meeting that day. That's that was my recollection. >> Was there not a quorum of you there? >> Well, I was there and I I'm not listed here, but I was I was on Zoom for that

682
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meeting. >> Scroll up. >> I was there. I I'm uh I am the owner of 600 cross streets that shall not be named. >> Okay. So, it says it says Sarah spells her name wrong. Uh Addie, Chris,

683
03:19:03.040 --> 03:19:18.720
and then Stacy and Joe say they were there. So, yeah. So, you should have been able to con >> No, we should have been able to convene a meeting, but we never officially did. And we, you know, they didn't. Oh, really? >> The board of health I This is my

684
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recollection. the board of health didn't want us to convene a meeting and we had to address them individually. So, what how I realized that we didn't have these minutes is because we have this new AI tool that I was testing out with a question and it came up with like

685
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a list of agendas the planning board had posted that didn't match neatly with minutes and so I had Noel look into it and that's we we accounted for all the other there were like six or seven we accounted for the other ones and this was the only one that we couldn't find

686
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minutes for so here we are but um >> Chris my memory might be a little different in that it seems likely that we did call ourselves to order, but then we weren't

687
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the way the board of health ran the meeting wasn't so much a discussion >> as a you get two minutes to speak. You get two. >> Yeah, I remember the meeting well. I just don't remember the um >> I don't remember this meeting. So maybe I wasn't there.

688
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>> I think you weren't there, Addie. I sat next to >> I remember you guys being um not happy afterwards. >> Maybe they mistook you from for Stacy. >> Maybe I don't think I was there. So

689
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>> the collaboration we were hoping for. >> No. And I would like to actually read these minutes because I remember the meeting. I'll also send you the um the copy of the board of health approved minutes because what >> I mean I edited it to be in the format

690
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of how we have the meeting minutes now but I didn't change the actual content of it at all. >> Okay. >> Um because like I said I wasn't at the meeting and there's no recording. So >> I >> I apologize Noel that I that I didn't read them and thought it was a mistake.

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Sorry about that. >> No, it's okay. It was just something we saw um >> and wanted to like, you know, >> Mhm. >> cross our tees. >> Probably makes sense to put it because we didn't actually specify it on the agenda, so it's probably makes sense to put it on the next one and list it in

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the minutes, you know. Um >> Okay. So, I'll um I can distribute the board of health minutes as well, just so you can see from what they had posted. >> Great. Thank you. Um, Julie, you have some invoices.

693
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>> I do. Um, hold on one second. I have I think I have three different things. Okay. So, I have I can pull them up real quick. Um, actually, I have to pull them out of I can't we we can't access the town server for some reason. So, I have to pull them

694
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out of the packet. Um, give me a second. Okay, I have an invoice from Adam, our GIS consultant. Um, it's partially paid for from the community planning grant. Um, and then the remainder is $1,678.75,

695
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which would be paid for uh with the ARPA funds that are covering his current contract. Um, Do you want me to go through all of them and then you can do them as batch or >> Yeah, do that. >> I just to get out of this and go let me

696
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pull up. Okay. I have an invoice from >> mosquito 220 24. >> I have an invoice from the mosquito for $245. This is the second print of the legal ad for your zoning bylaw amendment

697
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hearing. Um, and this would come out of your legal ad budget and you have the budget for it. Um, and then I don't know if I put the third one in your packet. Hold on. >> Housing for $100. >> And then Yeah. So then there's a housing

698
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institute um training that I want to go to. It's $100. It's on June 24th, I think. Um, and that would come out of education and training, and there is the budget for it. Do we

699
03:23:36.319 --> 03:23:52.880
have a motion to approve and authorize the town planner to sign the invoices? >> Motion to approve. >> Second. Uh roll call vote. Eric, you're it. >> Adam's eye. >> Tim, Jacus, I

700
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>> sure. >> Thanks, guys. Lyn and I me. I can't believe it. >> See what you did, Sarah. have to have some fun, you know. Um, and then does anyone have any liazison

701
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reports? >> No, I had to miss the last historic, so I don't have don't have updates on that. So, >> well, it's it's not exactly a a liaison report, but I did go to the DP one of

702
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the DPW meetings and um they I think they read the article on the mosquito and they were um they were just saying that, you know, they they were hoping to not spend as much on the DPW building as the fire station building.

703
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Um, you know, and the thing that got called out, cuz I'm I'm guessing they read it in the mosquito were the the doors on the fire department. You know, they thought they thought that, you know, that the DPW building wasn't going to need anything that like that.

704
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And I said, I I I doubt we'll, you know, be wanting to put fancy doors on the DPW building. >> It's not exactly a public facing building. Mhm. >> Very different location. Yeah.

705
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>> Um Julie, did have you been able to um you've been invited to the the the meetings, right? The building committee meetings. >> I'm working on it. >> Okay. >> I I showed up with the one today. >> Okay. Thank you. >> As a reminder to people that I exist. Um

706
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and they were interviewing the different firms um today. I couldn't save it the whole time because I had a meeting um partway through that I had to go to. But um I did just kind of listen in. They're trying to pick an architecture firm to do the design.

707
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>> Did I say that there's a request for like $1.7 million for soft costs for initial design design fees? >> That's a lot. >> What? >> Yeah. >> That's so almost That's what they paid for the fire station, isn't it? >> That's huge.

708
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That seems very strange. >> Yes, >> huge number. >> Oh my goodness. >> I was kind of shocked when I saw that. >> Who generated that number? >> That's a good question. I'm um

709
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I don't know. I'm like literally just trying to catch up to the process. It's a utilitarian building for the most part, you know, with locker rooms and an office, I assume, and the rest of its garage space, for lack of a better word,

710
03:26:45.680 --> 03:27:00.880
but shouldn't be anywhere near the cost of a fire department with all the the needs that they have for special equipment and such. >> And I don't think there are any special site considerations. No, it's

711
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>> Do they need to expand or just modernize? >> They need like a whole new building. >> Yeah, >> there was something today about the site costs being almost basically half of the total cost just because there's so much wetlands and it's pretty tight. Um

712
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>> not a lot of architecture in that >> in that aspect of it, right? Unless Unless that includes engineering and like other like civil and whatever. >> Yeah. If it's civil, too. But still, I mean, >> that's still a really high number.

713
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>> It's still a really high number. >> Yeah, >> there's probably information about it on the website. I'm just seeing if I can find it quickly for you guys. I'm sure they've got some detail behind. Yeah. So, do you guys you guys know

714
03:27:50.960 --> 03:28:06.560
about the upcoming town meeting site with all like the videos and stuff, right? >> Yep. >> Okay. There's some information on there. >> Shaking her head. >> Say it again.

715
03:28:06.560 --> 03:28:22.640
>> I do now. >> There you go. I made videos for the zoning bylaw amendment, for the bog house, for the Proctor Road cell tower. >> Wow. >> It's fun time. Um, yeah. So, take a look at that and let me

716
03:28:22.640 --> 03:28:37.120
know if you still have questions. I need to look at it too and like make sure I understand what's going on. >> Thank you. >> Um, yeah. So, I hope to be start to be included and um not have to figure it out for myself.

717
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So, that's the goal. We'll get there. >> No. So, I'm I'm looking at the thing and it's saying, you know, uh it's really comparable to the cost of the fire station. The projected 15 million in total costs. >> Why?

718
03:28:53.200 --> 03:29:10.439
>> What? >> It's on the town website. >> Uh yeah. Well, not to exceed the project exceed a projected 15 million in total costs.

719
03:29:16.960 --> 03:29:32.239
Anyways, >> there's a podcast, there's a video, guys. Have a week. Um, yeah. Yeah. And then Stacy and I were at the Magic meeting last Tuesday and they

720
03:29:32.239 --> 03:29:49.439
mentioned um this kind of pilot study that they're doing to study water infrastructure um concerns with the increase in like basically challenges with water infrastructure in the creation of

721
03:29:49.439 --> 03:30:04.479
housing and they're doing it in the magic sub region of MAPC which includes like a lot of towns 13 towns I think in this area. So, I attended a focus group um last Thursday and it was mostly towns

722
03:30:04.479 --> 03:30:21.359
that have totally have public infrastructure or have some public infrastructure, but there were a couple other towns like Carile um like Boxboro for example that rely entirely on private well. Um and so it was it was really interesting just to hear the

723
03:30:21.359 --> 03:30:37.840
different challenges that town water departments are facing. Um, it's not just the private well groundwater uncertainty issue. >> Um, I have some like more detailed notes at the office I can share if you guys

724
03:30:37.840 --> 03:30:54.960
are, but they had a bunch of prompts and questions and I mostly listened, but then I chimed in when it was like something that was relevant to me. So, >> but it was good. >> Great. >> Yeah. >> Was um Kelly there? No, she couldn't

725
03:30:54.960 --> 03:31:11.359
attend. Yeah, but I had sent it to the board of health or staff originally and then found out they couldn't attend and then I attended instead. So, >> Got it. Thank you for doing that. >> Yeah, that was interesting. And it was a lot of like water

726
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department people, some of whom I know from working in other communities, and then also planners. So, it's a good mix. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I think that's it. Um, just a reminder, town meeting is next Monday. Um,

727
03:31:30.880 --> 03:31:47.920
and I will see any of you there that are planning to attend. So, >> I'll be there. >> Okay. >> Don't forget everybody. Thank you, Sarah. >> You're welcome. All right. >> Thank you, everybody. Have a good night. >> Good night. Oh, >> hold on. Do we need a motion? We need a

728
03:31:47.920 --> 03:31:56.840
motion to adjurnn. >> Motion to adjurnn. Seconded. Okay. Good night now. >> Bye. >> Bye.