i'm going to uh call to order the select board meeting for Tuesday April 1st 2025 Um we have an agenda this evening that includes community input which we always do at the beginning and the end of every meeting That's input for anyone in the community who wants to talk about
any issue We typically reserve it to one to two minutes um and uh if you could address your comments to me From there we're going to go on to a town meeting discussion This is relative to the warrant article review We're going to start with financial articles from
approximately 7 to 8 Um and then bylaws discussions of the bylaw warrant articles from 8 to 9 and then the CPC and other articles um from 9 to 10 and then there'll be community input at the end So um first of all I'd like to call
Well I did call to order but uh let's do a we're all here so let's do a um we don't need a roll call vote Okay So I I declare we have five people in attendance Barney's in attendance too She went back to get some water
So let's start with uh community input We'll start with the room If there's anyone who would like to make a uh statement or raise questions to the select board if you would please you can step forward The microphone there on the table works It picks you up Um introduce
yourself your street name and then um you can speak for one to two minutes and appreciate if you just address the board here Go ahead Uh should I stand or sit it doesn't matter Whichever you're comfortable Um
I'm Mike Hanower I live at 200 Longridge Road and um I I sent I think all of you got got a note from me and it went to the planning board as well Um but the situation that Carlile faces with the
MBTA Communities Act has literally brought tears to my eyes you know with what we're doing to our environment or what it could do to our environment and our character So I wanted to amplify on on that and you know and get
it publicly out there Um I believe that the MBTA Communities Act along with greatly loosened restrictions on accessory dwellings is the biggest threat to the tranquility
sustainability and beauty that our town has ever faced It will almost certainly increase our total carbon and environmental footprints traffic trash taxes educational spending as well as
our already tenuous water and sewer situation If the town is even to attempt to comply it must be in a manner that absolutely minimizes the number of added housing units that can be added over the
long term We are facing the possible perhaps likely end of the Carlilele we know and love Choices must be made carefully and with a long-term perspective I believe this is the ultimate choice we
face And thank you Um by the way as an aside I just learned um recently that Lexington had a special town meeting and they had um originally zoned a huge amount and they they reduced it
tremendously at this March town meeting Um the the plurality that voted to reduce it was at 94% So I think there's a huge silent majority out there you know that's
concerned maybe not so silently issue Well thank you Thank you Mike All right Is there anyone else in the public go ahead Your name and address would be great Uh my name is Sarah Kylie Shaw and I live
at Evergreen Lane and I was actually coming forward is the agenda item There's no agenda item for what I'm coming forward for but I'm interested in um supporting the West Street sidewalk construction proposal
one and two which were previously listed in the town's priority planning document that was submitted to be eligible for the complete the streets um grant that we received in 2018 So among the 25 projects that were part of this uh
requirement to receive these funds there are two along Westford Street that I think are in step with um the town's overall uh master plan in terms of having a network of sidewalks go out from the center of town at least a half a mile of which Westford Street is the
only among those that doesn't have that sidewalk So the first proposal actually is a little bit further down on Westward Street and it connects from Actton Street to Curve Street and this is a smaller cost project Um and it's at the
time was in 2018 was $40,000 So it's likely obviously more than that Um but there are a tremendous amount of interest from the community for supporting this project In fact I have um 86 uh petition signatures for
proposal one which is the first one that I mentioned and 78 proposal signatures for the second component which is the section that would connect Monroe Hill to the fire station Um that one cost a lot more and actually is over budget for
what this grant of the house this grant is for $500,000 maximum and that particular section in 2018 was $535,000 So what I'm wondering about is if the committee would consider uh supporting one or both of these projects
and perhaps segmenting the one that is closer to town so that we could achieve at least some part of that and then consider you know doing a trail through the woods maybe it's from Rockland or uh a trail behind Monroe to connect them Um yeah those are my comments Thank you
very much Um can I submit those documents along with Sure Um several letters that have been committed to the safety committee Um and the only other thing I I guess there's one other thing that came to mind was that there was some concern about pedestrian safety at
Actton Street uh crossing to access the pre-existing sidewalk that goes from Monroe Hill essentially to um Actton Street Um and I would just urge the committee to consider that people are going to cross there anyway And so uh we should really consider doing something
before there is an accident there because people are crossing there Um regardless of that thank you so much Thank you As as a note we we don't typically respond to people who are speaking um if they ask specific questions I will suggest though that in
certain matters like in this case this is a something that's going to the safety committee for their evaluation So it would it would makes a lot of sense to make sure you go before the safety committee and and you can always petition us and always speak to us but it's it's going to go to them first and
then on April 15th it's going to come here So just so you know the process Thank you I would just say that most people have written to the safety committee and I've also testified directly to the safety Good Perfect All right Are there any others in the audience in
Yep Please Thank you Sure I'm Marge Buruby and I live at 784 North Road and um I wanted to follow up on what Mike had to say about the
MBTA community's law and also the ADUs as you know kind of a bundle now Um and I know some of you might have seen letters that my husband and I have written in the past but I just wanted to
make a few comments that when I saw the MFCC plan which I think was in late summer in the Mosquito which uh detailed the 10 neighborhoods and the 256 homes redlined for overlay zoning I
was surprised Um and although our neighborhood was redlined most of us were not initially opposed to the plan but we felt that we needed to learn a lot more about it And
that is what we set to do So my husband and I have attended all of the subcommittee meetings as well as the subsequent planning board meetings And over time and after a tremendous
amount of research by our group to analyze and uh gain knowledge on the implications of this plan and other potential plans Um our thinking has come
down to uh feeling that the MFCC plan is not in the best interests of the town because it exceeds a thou hundreds of times the amount of acreage required to meet the
law and it will still exceed it by more than 10 times even if it is whittleled down to a lower number of acres Um and it will offer you know developers will really be the only
beneficiaries that we've been able to determine from our research Um so we did file the warrant article which I think is going to come up later this evening uh to encourage the planning board to
offer vote as a choice by seriously exploring other options that minimize the acreage And I think Mike pointed out that there have been other communities NEM was one Lexington is another where
they generously seated more acreage than required by the law and now have buyers remorse as a result because the developers have moved in very quickly and uh I think that's something worth
thinking about Okay Thank you very much Thank you Are there any other public comments from people in the room sure I'm Ray Modí from uh Barry Corner Road Not to beat the dead horse but the horse is not quite dead yet
So uh I'd like to amplify what Mike and uh Marge said but in the following sense I happened to visit Bedford recently uh on along New Lumis Street and and Weber Street there there's MBTA development
going on there So I actually happened to go down when they were knocking down some of these homes and uh basically in this area where they're going to put some new multif family homes to the tune of $1.4 4 million per
unit These are not lux these are not u you know affordable housing They're they're basically classified as in fact they're even advertised as luxury homes But I happened to uh chat with one of the neighbors when they were knocking one of these
buildings down She was parked in her car and uh she said "You see that that building right over there?" We we knew those people for many many years They have new siding new windows nice porch blah blah blah What do you think the developer offered them and got for that
house 50% over asking price 50% over asking price So and then the the other neighbor next door got a bit over asking price too and accepted So they knocked the two homes down So there's a big pile of rubble uh as the excavator was doing
his job And I I said to the uh ex I I actually talked to one one of the construction operators and I said "Was there any discussion about you know you're you're a contractor of maybe preserving that older home and adding to it making it a three unit home?" And he
goes "There's not even a a chance for doing that." And he said "The reason is we have new building codes they have old plumbing they have old water all that kind of stuff It's cheaper to just rip it down and rebuild That's how we do it
So one of the reasons I'm concerned about one of the plans that's being proposed right now is this concept of we're going to have a you know a nice twoacre lot with a nice charming old house and we're going to build on it and
maybe expand it to a three family multif family house I think is polyianish It really is because you talk to these developers and they go "No way it's going to be all knockdowns So I just want to make that point that uh in the in the other towns like Bedford they're
they're already doing this You could drive down Luma Street you'll see what they're doing right now Uh in fact they're being advertised So uh they're they're they're a uh a work in progress right now And I think we should just keep an eye on that and and use that as some lessons as we go along and we start
to weigh what options we should pursue Great Thank you Thank you Thanks Are there any other comments from the public at this point yeah come on down Sound like a car salesman Come on down
So my name's Amelia Fornier Um 745 East Street Um and I'm here also to talk about MBTA Communities Act and the ADU law And I'm just feeling that when we're attending the planning board meetings um
the general interests of Carlile as I talk to all my neighbors my the friends and family that are involved in the schools that they're all interested or not all but a large majority are um interested in keeping the town
um to the Carile that they know and love and not making huge changes And just in this ADU law and the communities act I feel like we're proposing huge changes and just the the decisions that are being favored not that they voted on the
ADU law yet but the decisions that are being favored are just not what I'm hearing from the community So I just would want to see things presented at town meeting that seem in line with what the residents are feeling So
thank you Any further comments from people in the room are there anyone online who would like to make a public comment or a question okay seeing none I think we're
going to move on to our business tonight So we're going to start with a discussion of the financial articles um within the warrant And Ryan if you'd kind of help lead us through that discussion that would be great
So to to help the board with the decisions tonight the decisions that need to be made help build the town meeting warrant so you can approve it either at your next meeting or the meeting after at the latest So each one of these represents one of the warrant articles that you've already been introduced to and and discussed So
tonight the idea would be to provide the recommend to finalize and provide the recommendation on any warrants that you feel you can and make significant progress on the ones that you can't and identify what additional information you need on the ones that have more decisions to
come So we tried to bucket your your leadership tried to bucket this into um into groups of discussion So from 7 to 8 tenatively scheduled financial articles as shown So the operating budget the capital plan the fire truck the elevator the library coils the police station
renovation fire station design which I'll caution you're getting a whole presentation on next meeting so you probably don't want to cover it tonight And then if there's any time left over we really could start to order the articles and maybe do um some consent
agenda work from 8 to 9 The um two bylaws that are remaining after all the melee are the ADU bylaw and the town administrator bylaw which um which are both significant conversation pieces And then
the last section of the night 9 to 10 Travis and I have bets on whether or not we'll need 9 to 10 Friendly bets not money bets uh are your CPC articles of which there are six and then the other items um they're only
considered other because they don't fall into financial or bylaw but that is the citizens petition for MBTA the planning consultant request from the planning board the cemetery improvements the mosquito monitoring from the BO the Davis land transfer which is still may or may not happen depending on how fast
the state moves and then of course the looming consent agenda so I'm willing to drive anywhere this train wants to go Um I think we're going to start with the financial ones and and I think the order makes sense to kind of go through
Okay Um I was at the FINCOM meeting this past week and um I see the chair of the fincom is here in the room as well So I thought you know if we have questions he can weigh in on I don't think they've taken a vote
yet officially on any of these but you have a sense of you know where the board is shaking out where the finance committee shaking out on some of these for the majority not all but for most Yes Okay
So it sounds like the chair wants to start with the operating budget Yep Sounds good Can I make a general comment about the finance articles um more an observation It's a pretty
daunting lineup we have in terms of the scope and the breadth of projects that are at some form of consideration whether it be um design for a fire station police station Um and typically I know we present the
operating budget then we get into capital items then we go through the warrants I think it's going to be important just thinking about format and presentation this year of of making sure that um at some point they're all individual warrant
articles but I think it's going to be important to kind of lay out the big picture of all of these together and what so that people can make the the best informed decisions about each individual one So I'm not sure what that means but um whether we do operating budget as we traditionally do and then
when we do the capital items and we paint the picture of what the next 5 to 10 years looks like but it's it's a pretty ambitious list of projects we have this this year that we're considering at various phases and over the next several years Yeah
Yeah And it's only getting more challenging Yeah And I think it's important to provide to the best of our ability that high level view for the town of what we're potentially taking on so we're not voting in isolation on one thing only to find out oh there's you know they need to know what's coming
down the pipeline if if you approve this and and how it all sequences together and how we're thinking about it so so that they know that there it has been considered and there is a longer term plan that takes all these into account Scott are you proposing anything to do differently you're welcome to if you
want to go over this in order No no it's not it's not for discussion of the maybe in the order but I just think as we think about the presentation how do we how do we provide this holistic view of things in our typical warrant presentation warrant presentation where
does this this 5 to 10 year outlook holistic outlook fit in and I don't know if it's a separate presentation or if it's just part of one It's just something to think about I don't have an answer tonight You know I'd also um just second that Scott and also add that
um some of the uh outreach some of the social uh media posting you know we we should really think about is there a way to um do some of that maybe even pictorially you know that you could have something that simple enough that folks
could be looking at ahead of time Um and I I was just in a previous meeting where uh someone who's younger than I am said you know she really looks at the Instagram account the Carile Instagram account That's pretty much the only thing she looks at in terms of town
information So we should be thinking about how to how to use that The TV's got that under control right we got you a selfie All right So um real I can go as quick as fast as possible but I'll try to be concise before there's questions So the
budget request number that's at the top that is the largest driver of the operating budget impact that is summarized by department as you've seen and we have for transparency in the budget book you will have the line by line So every every line in the budget
will will be shown Can excuse me could you make it a little larger please what I want to show you here Okay It's purposely small Is the total budget increase for draft two which is the fin's version of the budget is a
4.87% increase Okay so that's before the capital articles for capital All the capital that's proposed however a 3 point something All the capital that's proposed is either captured in borrowing that will
affect future operating budgets or is paid for with one-time funds which is calculated in the reserves Okay Except for the police station which which you know the big drivers are uh so the big drivers of the budget
increase So this is just straight dollars from last year to dollars this year This isn't tax impact So 4.8% 87% The largest drivers are the retirement assessment which is 400,000 of that the health insurance which is 300,000 of that The two school requests
which is combined 4 to 500,000 of it So you're at 1.3 of the 1.7 million increase with just those four line items Then the rest of it is made up of level services in the town hall So so no new no new positions except for one
consolidated position at the police department which will result in an animal control officer So 4.87% increase there Well I hate to sound like a broken record but the insurance
um and the um retirement thing and the two schools is that what you're saying are the key drivers are the key drivers and most of the retirement and most of the health is coming from the schools as well which is in our budget So it's
really all coming from the schools Well I wouldn't say all I mean well no the school's 60 62% of the budget The school most of our the schools are 62% budget and of the retirement benefits and of the insurance cost We have two of
that It's also 60% of that So but some of it is your legacy retirees you can't undo what I'm not saying that I I I get that it's just that when thinking about when thinking about
you know okay this is repetitive as many new new but many new folks are tuning into the budget So the largest driver of the retirement assessment is the unfunded liability in all of the state retirement systems Meaning there was this liability that was calculated and
the towns and the systems all have to catch up to fund that by the middle of the 2030s Middle sex is the least fund is the ninth least funded out of the 110 retirement systems N least funded What does that mean in English 101 out of 110
Very few We're we're down near the bottom of town You mean we're worst or we're better worst Great Which means our assessments will be high for the next 10 years And that's that's the amount the catchup is prescriptive to every town in Middle Sex County Right Yes It's not a
description We don't have a choice Yeah Yeah And I understand we don't have a choice It's just that Okay Can you go back Ryan to that summary page what's There was a couple things What's department and draft two what does that mean so this is what your
department's requested and was presented to you as budget draft one Yeah Draft two is the finance committee's Can you scroll to the left what are what what are those yeah there we go Total budget So total blanket insurance is the first one
We gave them more than the departments at or they just didn't count things that counted Why is I've never seen where a fincome budget was higher than what departments requested Maybe James 403 to the 415 is what
you're talking about anything I mean you're supposed to take money away not add money Maybe James wants to explain what happened No it's 4 it's it's No it's from It's not from 403 because that was last year's budget It's from 415 I
can read 122 column H and column J Yeah fin was the fin recommended budget was higher There there's a couple I haven't quite got two reasons Um included in that is fin added the colas as well Okay So there were things so that was my
question There things that the departments did not include in their request There was things cut from the departments and things added like cola insurance increases etc And the the cola amount ended up being two and a half two% which it wasn't in the FY That was
what we did Yeah we did that We did that We did that Okay So but your your covering note from I don't know last Friday said 3.46 That's the tax impact That's the tax impact This doesn't include free cash
off This is just the actual growth of it of the expense That doesn't include income growth What was roughly what was the last year last year's that number to go apples to apples wasn't it three i I need to look it up I can't guess I
mean it'd be good to know that But the levy tax bill impact is closer to 3.4.5 Yeah How do we pick up a percent i know I should know this answer Why is this a percent higher than the tax bill because of use of free cash to pay for it and
income growth revenue growth So this is just expense growth Just expenses Yeah And we believe so we started this by saying that the one number that entire sheet on that we just showed is the one number at the top of this And this hasn't changed It has has this changed
since we last saw it in any meaningful way in two ways Okay Um both prescribed by the last meeting So first was the transportation stickers was added and the line for paying for the fees being rolled into the transportation stickers
which is a minor impact 4,000 on each side revenue and expense More revenue Also we've started to work on the police station borrowing So we need to borrow shortterm in order to start the construction assuming it's all approved on the police station And then once the
project's complete we'll do a permanent borrow and then that'll start impacting So we've said the small costs first couple years and then the final cost would start hitting in year three So this year that's $80,000 So that is on top of Okay This year we have a little for variety of reasons we have a little
bit of revenueing increase Well they're also changing some of the revenue assumptions Well to be less conservative correct local receipts Correct That that was in Yeah we got transportation Not this the
last budget but overall why is it 80,000 income i that's money we're going to get from debt and then it's applied somewhere else So that's a debt exclusion So that's on top of Okay So we're borrow borrowing is considered revenue What is borrow debt exclusion It's his
own class And I know we don't agree on how to define this but the town said that they approved this project outside the bounds of two and a half So we're adding any police building costs on top of the budget So for the purposes of t calculating the tax impact you're saying we're borrowing
and um so we don't have year-over-year percent which is too bad on this Next time you should probably include year-over-year in column E That would be helpful But a million dollars uh a million point
uh seven 1.7 over 35 million that's the increase in operating budget rate but it's hard when you guys don't put percentages because really it's not didn't I thought we did all this last
well then why erase history I mean I don't I don't think the point of this discussion is the same as the point of the last discussion well I don't I'm trying to what I'm trying Okay so let me wrap that part up If if we if you say "Okay middle sex is an externality We
can't do anything about that." Or any other insurance where they tell us you're I'd like to know like I mean it's kind of back to what you're saying Scott Like if we're really spending 5% more like forget the stuff that I'd like to know the net sort of increase of things
that are not externalities to us and say "Well what do we really think inflation is?" It's like 3.2 What what it was last year you can look it up There's like general number It's in the threes right yep Did we Maybe they're even when you strip
those things up but like you shouldn't be spending more like core money than inflation plus healthare externalities Yeah What do you strip out that's the you strip out the stuff that you cannot control And you but anyway I mean it's kind of
overdone What do you reduce yeah healthare He's saying healthare and the it may be it just that's an analysis that would be useful like right I think when you without breaking down the individual numbers if you take out say
colas and the contractual colas you're probably at that and you take out these colas would be colas would be in there because right no but I mean number but if you if you if you go into the the healthcare increase which we know is well above inflation retirement well
above inflation we know what CPS uh special education is well above inflation Um those are the main drivers some transportation special education The problem is every year you can do that and every year
there's externalities that push you above So all right so you're I mean that's the problem right we're signing up for 5% basically every year and then we got the capital to swallow it down So and FINCOM had the same conversation
so we've done it a couple times but the the net impact on the average tax bill which is I think is a conservative tool that we've built here is 3.46% In FY26 of all that spending compared to 2.6 last year and 2.3
if you remember the budget process last year projected that last year's increase would be 3% and it ended up at 2.62 And do you think it's likely that that may happen again or have we is that part of the increase in
uh the revenue side that we've included in the budget um so it's unlikely that we'll see much of a reduction in that tax impact I think the 3.46 will be the high end of the range The the problem is it's hard to calculate the diffusion of increased
value across the town while you're projecting cost So you have to use last year's tax rate and you can put some assumptions in there to try and make the tool more accurate and we have but I would say shouldn't go any higher than 3.46% For this piece of it for the operating budget for the operating Yeah
Okay operating budget piece I think we knew this was coming down the pike I think we knew already last year and we did warn everybody that it's going to be a bigger increase next year Um question is is this an acceptable bigger increase Um we also by the way had more inflation
last year You know it was that that was the 6% year That was the worst year for inflation It was the worst year for inflation for for years and years and years So I don't think this is I mean so you have 4% growth in both school budgets You have a 20% growth in health
insurance and you have a 29% growth in retirement Yeah Which is about 90% of the budget Yeah I I wish we could you know see more deeply into the school budgets because I understand about the
sped but you know when we have shrinking um enrollments and increasing budgets I always I don't think it's shrinking I'm not sure Is it going back up well it's it's been holding steady It holds steady But I mean more to the point
like you know we're having we're having this discussion of the whether the town administrator ought to be able to administer the HR functions of people that work for different boards right yes That's a debate like why and I don't mean this no disrespect to the schools I spent a long time in the school
committee but why do we have honestly the amateurs in schools doing budgeting when we got pros and I'd say loosely pros but certainly certainly Ryan's a pro and Fincom has a lot of expertise and we have a lot of expertise Why can't
we drive that budget process why why do we defer to people who basically teach where budgeting is not their thing they don't even have a business manager Like why do we do that is is there any rule that we can't take that over yeah Well there is Mass General law kind of has
separated that out has separated the schools in all towns in all functions in all towns and the and the way it's structured is you've got a superintendent who runs that The school committee basically is in charge of the superintendent but then Well I understand that structure I'm just
saying we we don't they don't administer their own benefits Somebody that works for Ryan does that right yes That's what that why can't we administer why can't we do this part like where do you part the line it's a it's a question I'm not being
facitious I'm saying it's like half of more than half our well I can't you know the district's a district but the in town one is what 40% of our budget or some number like that I don't think it's an issue of expertise you have the school administration drives the budget
process we do have a we don't have a business manager we have a a a consultant that is heavily involved They work with the school committee They work with the fincom You know the process I know the same process I know the process I think the
um the larger issue is not for the school and for the town and not to be this is a discussion for going forward not for tonight is typically the way we do things has been in this year the same way and I'm not saying it's the wrong way think it's I
think it's fine for this year but we always say level service hold your budget flat and then that generally means keep doing the things you're doing the same way you're doing them right and that's what's going on So at the school but I think what we if we look at this
year if we look at next year when you line up all these big projects and all these external forces we know are not going away will either be at four to five to 6% every year for the next five years or we commit select board fin school committee
to really taking a look at things and figuring out how do we how do we change the way we're doing things to deliver completely agree to have this dialogue like every No I don't And then at the end not the end it's not really the end They don't want to be able No No So yeah but late in the game we're presented
with a budget from the school that they've already socialized internally Yeah It's kind of too late Well they had a budget in November though I mean they had the budget I will say that James is in the room here but FinCom has kind of committed to doing something like that over the summer Yeah Thank you Travis So
we're um the finance committee wants to take the off season if you will where typically we've kind of taken the summer off and do a lot of holistic planning in terms of we end up getting having these sort of discussions in the middle of the budget process where we don't have the capacity and frankly we shouldn't
allocate the time to doing it during the budget process right no I agree with that One of the things that we want to do is do a five have each department put together kind of a five-year look forward as to what the plan is for their budget Yeah we're doing it with capital which is fantastic and has really helped
the planning process but in terms of each department that's just one example Yeah So I think in my my view is and I mentioned this and I didn't know we were going to discuss it tonight is that we should have a working group that's select board fincom school committee
rep whomever like the key handful of stakeholders to really commit to let's get 2% out of our cost function every year for the next five years Right so I don't mean we're decreasing the budget but instead of a 6% increase for a 4% increase How do we do that how do we
change how we're doing things but we need to have everyone in the room for those discussions Yeah I I think that's great But I know I know we're way off We're we're we're getting off this is going to be an article No but this is the next year's select board chair who should you know think about
that and figure out how to how to approach that whoever that chair is going to be All right So I mean yeah I mean again I don't want to undermine the work the the good work that Ryan and did And so we we are we have the number we have But I I do think part of the
message to the town like I said when you look at these articles it's not like suddenly there's a big break coming It's going to get tougher right and these externalities we can say "Oh it's this year not next year." But they're going to keep coming right and building costs are not going down Anything we approve
now we know it's probably going to go up 30% It's all going to go up So I mean it's like you know there's a fair number of people they were in the room here that you know might represent the old older Carlile that may say you know faced with that like okay I'm out Cuz
like that's I $600 a year increase or more That's a lot for me right there's a lot of younger people quite honestly like okay you know 17 grand 20 grand it's okay I write a check I'm done So I mean as a character thing Mike started with that character part of MBTA I don't
view MBTA as a character threat personally but I do look at this as somewhat of a character threat because it will fundamentally I think over time we aren't really going to be we haven't demonstrated that we really can control cost and I don't think we can control cost I think little towns are going to be forced to make decisions to be bare
bones or they're going to do things that people like and you know the demographics will change We'll get into that in the TA bylaw because that's what we're trying to do All right So let's stick with the operating budget I think our goal here is to determine if we're kind of on board with this
So the fin in the room is prepared to support a budget that represents what we predict to be a 3.46% tax increase before the capital before In other words that is not the only tax increase The only other tax increase is the police
station Yeah All right Capital items are funded through free cash Okay Or borrowing that's already baked into the operating budget And this operating budget incorporates an increase in borrowing that offsets the decrease in increase in
future borrowing that offsets the decrease in past borrowing Yes Existing debt is dropping and this that 3.4% includes the back fill of the new borrowing Yeah Y got it Yep Yep Yes
just said yes in the operating but that's already built in here This doesn't this doesn't assume declining debt pay that's not part of the operating budget Sorry It does assume servicing right there'll be capacity then So yes in theory what you said is correct Yeah
Okay So what do we are we voting in or what are we what do we Yeah What do we need to are there any specific um so for all of these I'm sorry for all of these the warrant typically says or doesn't the select board supports this article or does not that has to be published and printed in two weeks so if you're not
ready to support it then you should just say you're going to make your recommendation at town meeting or if you are done and ready to support it we can put that right on the warrant which is what you prefer if you are ready is this locked and loaded from the fincom this has been approved yeah we're prepared to support
There's no more change because I know you guys are continuing to meet Are there any other changes not to the budget We're going through some capital and some some warrants still open to the budget Okay Well I'm ready to take their lead All right Yeah So um do we want to take a
formal vote sure Okay All in favor of supporting the operating budget as presented I think one of us has to do that Sorry Well that's okay I move we recommend the operating budget war article Do it as I don't know shown on screen Do I
hear a second second All right Any further discussion all right All in favor i None opposed All right Okay We got through item number one Item number two I'm going to lose my bet You made it You lost your bet the second
you made it That's right Now you know what side I was on This is still a work in progress though right capital items Well no So the VCOM did mostly support capital We've been voted on them Just can't stop Okay So this is the capital
Okay Capital just to orient you Red the senior SUV You've heard a little bit of this already is off the capital plan Yellow because they're going to consider it in future years Okay Yellow are changes So the three two of the MFC items the RTU
upgrade at Robins and the windows and doors for town hall are going to be they're going to use FY25 funds for that to get that moving and adjust the capital plan moving forward Facilities parking lot is going to come from chapter 90 That was a recommendation you made at a previous meeting School
infrastructure went down The only other change is this $8,000 standup mower We can pay for that using assuming the select board votes this at your next meeting you can use a trust fund I'm probably not using the right term but a fund that exists in
order to take care of the cemetery A gift fund Can I can I interject i thought that that was only the interest we could spend off of That's perpetual care This is a new one we found that sure Yes That you can use Should we looked in the couch Yes We're going to pay for the Senate
mower with the couch coins Um everything else here currently exists This is the full plan that includes stuff that's in other warrant articles So I don't want to confuse you So the free cash spend of this capital plan is
1.244 So may I ask you a question um uh the roads the chapter 90 is about half of it Yeah I guess so 425 right is that what I So free cash 800 grand on the road maintenance is split as shown on the
right side Yes And I mean do we that's still a higher spend than we've been doing I realize we're in catch-up mode but is there any flex in that number could we peel 100,000 off of that well you can You just we're going to get worse roads I mean we talked about that
and we said we had a whole two meetings on roads I know But did we land at 800 that's what we need That was to keep the C plus roads 800 All right All right Never mind
Gotten into culverts yet I know Like but some of this is because we we have that discussion about the roads in the you know in the absence of the overall context I know You're right You mean
Yeah Right Okay No I know I know Anyway you're just timeshifting money with the roads right i know I know Like well East Street and Rutland's been paved so I'm good That was your mistake You should have put them last Anyway I understand I just Second Stress
testing method Three items under review by the Fincom significant discussion which is the roadside tractor mower at the DPW the sign board that the police requested 25,000 and the drone 167 I guess those are the two I'm still And we didn't support the drone I would I think
the sign board we didn't say it was saves essential this year What's the LAR unit that's for the what liar The um the radar The chief is here but I'm going to give it a swing It's for speed enforcement Is that the Does it detect transfer
stationers not to mention those Will it pay for itself with traffic lar unit That's different than the sign board and the drone Okay So the sign boards like the one you see advertising the 250th
parking That's a sign board We can borrow those from other towns is what there's one right at the entrance in conquered at the border I think there's four around town Cruiser 16 for the So do should we decide tonight as a select board on um
at least the some of the ones that we already talked about at the last meeting like the uh drone and the sign board right because I thought we that's the point of this is you want the recommendation on those or you heard it because you guys are going to present a
recommend recommended capital plan right beyond this you mean or Yeah because you Well you present and we're just kind of giving you Yeah we're going to present the capital plan Correct So have you guys discussed the capital plan are there any
um items on here that you would not support or would recommend that we don't support yeah So we haven't taken formal positions but the general discussion around the drone and the sign board sorry chief is we're not necessarily in
favor of doing those um as we feel it's kind of an added service as opposed to level service which was the goal Um the mower not the little one the bigger one the 160 or $150,000 mower We had a
discussion on generally it seemed the finance committee is in favor of it Um as there's some some public safety benefits and such but that was another one that we circled and we had a little bit of a further discussion on The rest of them I would say that we are in support generally of
uh the CPA we want to we're going to be hearing more from the CPA funds So we haven't really circled those actually Okay The wastewater treatment plant What's the big picture on that one is
that the It's 150 over 10 years I think it is And that's it's to keep it running Yeah Which which thing the wastewater treatment Oh yeah We got it now We're stuck The school till we decommission it
We're stuck And that's just Have you been there have you been there recently i have not Take a trip Then you won't ask that question Serious It's like an EHS you know before picture
Okay Do we want to give the FinCom any or they're giving us they've given us some we would vote on an article We haven't seen like we should have the article finalized before we vote on it is my point Well this is what goes into the article I guess that may be another step But I mean the point is can you
roll this up into the I mean you had like a whole little free cash analysis and stuff right so maybe not that you had another spot where you the uh reserve the reserve Yeah Like what free cash use and there you go
That's Can you blow that up a little bit of course Okay And can you remind part of the reason so we're these calculations end out with a
high reserve balance as a percentage of our operating budget 12.67% Correct And I just remembering that part of that reasoning there is because next year we're going to expect to use more carry a high balance higher
balance this year because next year we'll probably draw more on that as it stands now Next year we would get under the 12 right even with this carry forward Oh even with the carry forward Yeah But you can
I mean Yeah Yes Yeah Subject to change next year keep a little bit in reserve It's not we're not just trying to hoard away money It's not it's because we know what's coming and we Well we have ways through through the year once we authorize this because you can't you know it's like capital planning You can't under authorize because then you
get in the soup but you can certainly save money through the year by not doing things Yeah You can decide we don't need this we're not spending this And I mean right there was a time when this government was pretty good at that like we've like squeezed people down pretty hard and there's no reason we can't do
that again That shouldn't if this is what's stated as a need and we can do it I mean even though I've moan and groan I would say like we need to authorize it but that doesn't mean we just have to close our eyes for 12 months and let them spend it Right But my point is someone may say well why are we carrying
more use say what they want I don't care what they say I'm reacting to what I know I don't care what the town says I care what the FinCom says If income says we're going to need more cash so I'm saying we he has the authority over the course of the year to squeeze more cash
out of the already approved budget and take care of that problem We can do that No no What I'm saying is we're putting together a budget that uses a certain amount of free cash that still leaves us with more reserve funds than we need We know a year from now's coming Well that's that was I just wanted to check
in with Vin Common right and he said we're going to need it and more Yeah So I'm saying great y let's use our fiduciary responsibilities of the year channel your Larry Barton and squeeze these guys down and save some money But
I guess the question is if we're going to need it and more do we want to spend this year think uh things in the capital budget that will be an expansion of services as FINCOM has indicated A couple of these items are well the only I heard the drone and the the sun What
else right Well okay They may come out and say no to that That's then we would take their recommendation Right Or would you go i think they they were recommending he was going through town on it I think those are the two that we generally circled feeling that it was an
expansion of service right so we why would we support them we're supporting the support Yes I agree We're we're in agreement So okay I think we're we're sort of in agreement with those taking out those two supporting the FINCOM
budget the capital budget has presented Yes Right And then I think we with the exception of some CPA learning be in support of this capital list with those removed With those removed Okay I just don't think we can recommend the article No we don't have to But if
we've had this discussion now then the next meeting would then go That's right Okay Okay Okay Gosh we are not moving too No we're doing fine We're doing fine Okay I'm not sure if this one is is lengthy but it might be The So the fire
truck borrow we gone over extensively We don't have a choice The article is 325,000 of additional borrowing for last year's firet truck and we're financing that out We are going to sign a contract and agree to pay for it when the truck is built in three years Some future
spend And we're hoping that legally they can't just tell us no like they did the last time They could Okay Yeah I don't have to see as we have a choice Particularly this is not a Carile unique problem This is statewide Three years to build a firetruck Inflation's going
bananas Supply chains are horrible Tariffs etc etc Emission standards Emission standards Um so it's difficult to buy a firetruck So if we don't have to borrow all of the money we won't We're just going to pay for what we have But 325 will get us to 1 point three
million Y and they build it in three years We might get it in three years Yes So this is additional borrowing Yes So I guess my question is the other one Why do we need to Yeah Did the other one
what why do we need we have to commit to the price of it we can't we can't we don't have the authority to commit to spend We don't have to spend it but we do have to commit to the spend We authorize they don't get the fire truck Okay All right That's Yeah we authorize not enough to pay for it Got it To your
point when does that authorization expire it doesn't ever on a two on a dead exclusion which is why every so often we unrolled at a town meeting So that you don't have that on the books All right So there's no opposition No Okay So we can move on to the next
Okay So you have three big projects to discuss assuming fire station is next time So you have the elevator project the library coils project and the police station renovation Yes Which is the additional authorization needed needed if you want to continue with the police station
renovation based on the actual bids Why don't we do four we should do clear four and five first and then Yeah Right I mean four is the million dollars for three elevators Yes
Well we're going out to bid now We think it's going to be a million Are we going to know by time yes You'll know by May 10th Okay But I mean given if it comes in range we've been over that right we got to have the elevators right Yeah And we
will never build another since you don't to try and help Since you don't know the number you might wait to recommend this at town meeting Yeah Yeah I was wondering how the warrant is worded so that if it's more because we had the same sort of discussion last year about how to word the warrant and then how to
word the the motion So I just want to make sure question Kate the this is going to be an actual bid So it's understand but it's not coming after we have to put the war the warrant out right I mean the booklet No say it again
The bid is going to come only after we've put the warrant book out So that's why I'm concerned about how the warrant is written So the only reason to put the number in the warrant is for transparency and to advertise it So you can just say we're going to authorize the borrowing of a sum of money and then
you you give the town that number at town meeting Okay But all the advertising you can say how much the cost is but the warrant article has to be very generic We had that discussion last year and Wayne said you know you may have an issue if it comes in more than and he was you know cautious about
being an arbitrary number right but because someone says "Oh I'm comfortable with that." And then doesn't show up and then you say "Oh it's actually 50% more than we told you in the warrant." So I actually don't think this one's going to be particular But also didn't we um I think last year we be we also uh decided
it wouldn't be in the warrant language per se but the little blurb below it would say didn't didn't we add something that said um current estimate is is this butting it writing it this way because it could be more and we want to cover which I think
we should do So there's some sense at least of the ballpark Yeah Great So Ryan now that you reminded me since you put these charts up first of all the fire truck you have a 10 and a 15year model Have you guys thought about which one you want that'll be another discussion for a
different time I will say Fincom's thinking about that Okay good And then the interest rate seems kind of low for these days And I noticed one was three and a half and one was four Yeah you're not going to borrow three
and a half are you i'd like to get in on that At 15 years you might But this this is from our um There's no way This isn't me This is UNIPE our our borrowing council or borrowing consultant So they think we can get
three and a half% Well because it's for a 15-year truck that'll be rolled into the police station borrowing Yes Wow Okay So all of this borrowing is going to be one big borrow Okay But anyway you're you're going to whatever they end up with as a percent you're going to
take that Yeah Okay Okay So this will be hitting in future operating budgets So there'll be discussions about how we talked about firetruck elevator Okay What else library library coils Yeah those it would be silly not to do those
Why wouldn't that be 20 years isn't that sort of like an elevator like a capital and a building i guess that what you might want this is exactly what I'm talking about So um there was one person that was definitely you got 20 30 years make it as cheap as possible but there might be another
discussion that says you shouldn't tie the town for 30 years I just don't know I mean you should match the life of the asset with the borrow I was just going to say you don't want to do it for 30 years and have them fail at 25 you're still paying them off If an elevator lasts 20 should not and coil also last
20 That's it's just a question I don't know I mean my guide to see you would be match the operating life with the term Don't think GAP has their their standards for that GAP's pretty loose on that I mean they're not going to tell you They do They have standards This is
just to give you a ballpark The I'm saying it's not a vehicle The actual borrowing costs in that discussion won't really happen till a 428 Okay All right Fair enough Let's move on I know All right So we're okay with the coils We're okay
with the coils And they're on to the Yes Police station renovation Police station Where do you want to go with that i'd like to know where we are What is Can you buy a drink so what was what
was approved last year 3 million 3.3 3.15 Okay Well it started at 3.2 2 and then we and I that was our contingency above and beyond and then now we're through the contingency Yeah
Um I think it was two meetings ago we talked about um getting some feedback from the committee about the um list of Oh that's right Was it alternate alternates alternates Yeah Yes um to understand whether those could that was created
specifically I think in case we had the the cost was going to be higher than we had hoped and therefore those could be pulled out Am I saying that correctly so anyway we actually we're not meeting till Thursday to to
recommend here it is Okay So okay can could you so column C if you just categorically said no alts like let's just say that for discussion purposes you're at category C but the point I made last meeting or
maybe was two meetings ago meet so much now is um that 3.76 million does not include Neil's estimate of true contingency gency which he put at I
think like a 350ish right 12% or something 10 to 12% right so even just even even if you say no to all alternates just categorically you're still at 4 million bucks right 4.1 maybe if you add his contingency well he's
your construction manager saying like that's what you need to do yeah you'd be foolish not to right I didn't quite understand too why the O op OPM was so high I know you mentioned last But we thought it was going to be 90 and it's 218
Do you remember oh wow Well we misestimated actually We misestimated It's not that we misestimated or we got a reason in an
un a misestimate OPM No that's we estimated what there was a discussion about OPM would be X amount of hours to you just hire a person and they're there the X amount of hours and that's what was calculated to present the town meeting as you know
when you went through the OPM discussions it's much more based off percentage of the project you wanted to hire a good OPM in order to make sure this project went well because it's the first of they have any kind of incentive fee built into that so if they save us money they get money and if they They don't save us money they get less money
It's a fixed fee Is that Are we required in the future to do it that way by government because in the private sector you would impose that on the OPM I don't think there's I'm going to look it up for you but I don't think there's a method in municipal government to do
that Okay And the OPM just so everyone listening understands it's required by law So not only does it cost what it costs but you have to have it right um so question for you Ryan Let's say the total in line 14 and then you got
some credits I guess But we do we authorize what's in line 14 or authorize what's in line 22 three two 22 What's the amount we have to a I mean but then there's a contingency on top but is it minus the
credits and things or rebates or is it the topline number and then we just count on getting that back we're sure that this was going to offset this So these alternative funds will offset the bid cost All right So these are the numbers you should use without So if we
said absolut I mean give the building committee guidance absolutely all in including contingency and all the credits and everything do not cross 4 million That would give them a 300 and a little bit in the contingency bucket 320,000 which is pretty close to what
Neil says he recommends right I don't remember the exact number but he gave a range didn't he in his 3 to 350 10% really so right so I mean that's I guess if there's anything left over then you can go do some of the alternates
right right or if you know the committee can restructure the bid and find room for the alternates but do not cross this line which we've said several times and they keep crossing well not necessarily Okay
How much has been spent under 30,000 but we've contracted with the OPF and the designer so really 200,000ish and that would come out of the original that will be
taxed because I think a logical question people like okay so you know what's the sunk cost here what are we looking at going forward um that doesn't count the sunk cost from the last time we failed to do this either by the Yeah I know
Well something to think about Don't make decisions on some cost right can't get money back For how much is how much of that is obligated i guess it's the 218 maybe not even
Okay So where where do we go from here as a board do we need to recommend an amount there was a there was a proposal over here to you know to recommend an amount Do we think that's a good strategy or do you does somebody else have a counter proposal do you have an amount you know amount another debt This
is a twothirds vote This would be a ballot And well we recommended we we wouldn't have to do that I think we recommended we should do it I think you were a proponent and the original funding was the original funding's already been voted in as a debt debt Yeah So I think
because the increase it's the same at least from my view and reason I agreed with your position is it's such such a substantial increase that we're better off freshly asking the question do you really want this police station because now it cost X as opposed to squeaking
some extra Y so I think that's I think our board is kind of on board with that So if we do that what's the number i said four I mean that would give you like you said $37,000 of contingency which is right at the middle of Neil's range It would give
you zero bid alts and you know unless the committee your committee can find room for them and there would be nothing else I mean from now on it would only be eating you know it would only be the contingency to work with if unexpected
things happen Now our president's going to raise lumber prices for example pretty soon Things are going to happen So is a contingency enough i don't I didn't know enough about the impact of those kind of externalities but you would get the
actual bid or you have the actual We have the actual bid This is what it does Yeah So um don't they have a carve out i can't believe they gave you a bid that didn't help There will be change Yes Well not just change change orders is when we change but the president puts
25% lumber tariff What do you do they just like lumber costs more I'm sorry Right I mean I don't know what else they can do They can I don't think we'd have to pay We We'd have to pay if they This is a renovation So if they open up a wall and they find something that they didn't know was there Oh yeah That's what the biggest concern is
But if a 2x4 goes up in costs did you have something you want to say i want to ask you know because people here I'm sorry come on up Just come on up People that are online or you can shout either way We prefer Suzanne Spinny at 275th
Street and uh also on the police station building renovation committee And I had a question Contingency in a occupied renovation is critical you're gonna when you encounter it it's usually in the beginning of the project when you're uncovering stuff and you're excavating
and once you're out of the what we call out of the ground So my question to Ryan is is there a way do we have to uh include alternates on day one of contract or can that be can I guess you could make that a change order if you
know because the critical one is is the is the interior renovation fit out and that is which would be last that would sort of be later I mean there is a little demo in that and there was some you know carpet demo and some other things but that would be a little later
So what do you what do you mean by a fit out Suzanne um uh alternate one is to is to make the non uh like not the front part but all the offices to to basically
freshen them up paint and carpet and I see to make to make them look more equal to the new stuff The new stuff But Suzan couldn't that or maybe it's a question for the chief You could do that over several years right you could just pick a few offices to reno each year Come on
down if you want It's harder to do I mean this is going to be disruptive in things but but I'll let Chief speak to that Yeah I mean p personally from my point of view I think it's easier to just do it now Easier Right Right Yeah And and maybe cost cost too because if
things are going to continue to go up like we've seen it's going to end up costing money in the long term Could you remind us what the amount was for that um that was about 12,000 wasn't that first alternate one so it's not a huge amount Yeah So you might be able I think your Yeah solution of change order seems
reasonable to me Don't plan it yet but try to save the money and and um it is I mean the bid is uh is the bid um the but now I mean in public work everyone's done public work and it can be problematic and in this kind of real
tight budget client climate depending on the contractor they they could be like digging you for little change orders all the time um if if they're really costraint Yeah Isn't that why Yes So but it it could
get it could not be it might be a little contentious at what I'm saying Okay In in this climate I wanted to go back though to what you said at the beginning about um there's more of an issue of of discovering things that you didn't
expect if you're um you know starting from scratch or doing things underground or whatever and that this is not what this is Well there is some excavation So is are there unsuitables is I mean we don't think there's a speestous but
you know well what I was the reason I was raising that is that and maybe you know the answer Ryan is the estimate from the OPM of um the contingency based on specifically based on this kind of a
project which has much less you know foundational work or you know demolition or any of that or or is It's specific to this project and it's still at the 12% level It's it's based on their experience of projects that are similar
to this one An occupied renovation Neil gave a fairly thoughtful response It's I think he he's right I think you got to carry that at least at least through the first five months Okay So so to answer your question contractually we have to
award I don't think we have to to pay for the alternate necessarily but you have to compare the bids through the alternates and approve them at the start I see So you could say we decided not to do alternate A but you can't then say oh because we have more money now we want to consider okay two three four five So
you have to decide now and then maybe you can cut it out I want to confirm that But so but let's say you I understand what you're saying So you can't because the bid might I mean it's hard to imagine that the rule it doesn't but the rules are rules So if we say no
thanks we're not going to do that now We can do it later separately We're not constrained to not do it Yeah We'd have to all be rebid You just can't do it within the framework of this project Otherwise it would be bid splitting But 12 grand I mean if you renovate an office that's typically not a competitive bid If you did it like right
now if he just wanted to if you wanted to renovate your office and it costs like $5,000 we wouldn't bid that right 5,000 No Right Okay So or 12,000 Yes You have to do that's a bunch of offices I'm just saying it's better
Yeah Back to where do we want to set a number let's let's do it Let's because we are a little behind our schedule Yes What we're trying We got to bet to win I get it All right So Do you want That's done
I'm I mean I'm I'm okay setting I suggested 4 million I haven't heard anything that says that that's not a good number No it's a very clear number You know it's not The question is okay so our bid is that our
bid the current bid minus all the No also alsy does have contingency and Um question is did that count the rebates and everything or any Yeah it did count the rebates
So you can put it back up but it was um 368 something minus I mean net of rebates and 368 plus and then you add 318 and you get the 4 million 37 right there The line 22 is
what Ryan said we should line 22 22 paid funds are funds that we collect from from people's cable So we're going to turn that community room into another Clark room so we can pay for the floors and the sound and everything We're going to maximize our PEG funds Y secondarily
Sarah did a tremendous job with Justin our our architect to preset all the rebates for all the HVAC work And we have a certificate in hand that says 58,000 is the rebate Okay good Excellent Okay 25 is a low estimate and 58 is a sure estimate Okay Confident saying
80,000 for a rebate Y All right So 36 uh I'm sorry 3683 368 plus 3,000 We don't have the contingency in there No but you math it out So 3 318 318 317 So that's
30 39 That's Well I'm just wondering if I'm I'm concerned about not adding the 12,000 for fitting refitting and finishing the darn job Make a recommendation I mean process-wise Yeah we're tell we're setting a number
that maybe doesn't Um Ryan I got to ask you So you said it's the same the bids are already came back We have them Yeah So is there a mater is the whoever bid lowest on the on the without alts is the same person who bid lowest with alts Yes
Alt one Yeah So why would you why couldn't you later add it since they already bid both ways and that person was already the lowest bidder It wouldn't change the bid right my least confrontational answer is state law But Suzanne the question I guess is when
you're meeting on Thursday is your what what is your plan for that and were you going to recommend we were going to recommend the final you know speaking with chief recommend that you
accept let's say the the base bid plus alternate one or the base bid plus alternate one and two or base bid no I mean that's what that was that's the goal of our meeting on Thursday Great So we could get that next meeting We'll we'll table our vote or our thought and
we'll wait to get your recommendation But if you say okay max out 3.95 million and as a committee we talk again with OPM we say well can we just carve out the 12,000 and we is the conting you know is is that something that you guys
are going to decide or is that something that you know if we recommend that we go with alternate one but all you all you you say 3.95 million I mean who who decides whether we get al whether we get alternate
All right Civics So they appointed you to recommend to them for them to make the final decision Okay Got it But if you if we under allocate the contingency and some bad stuff happens what actually happens
on the site like we have to how do we get more money if we and forget the 12,000 some big thing happens and you know it's not enough contingencies Then what give me a for instance number I'm saying it's 50k over because there is
asbestous So we didn't know about in theory 50k could be carried by the fincom reserve for an unseen So you can pay for it some other way But 50 is like if you said 200 it' have to be town meeting So you stop until you have a town meeting Like I'm saying you're in
the midstream of construction and you find something or you've halfway done it and we have a hurricane and we have to start over Like what happens probably would have to have a special town meeting Okay You just stop Your pencil's down or hammer's down and uh you got to
wait All right Okay The challenges of So don't mess with the contingencies or Okay We We do need to move on our discussion tonight but this is I think I think you could take a $4 million budget back and and work towards that That's
all All right Thank you very much Ryan I think that's it for the operating budget and the capital items Finance Yeah And for the finance end of things Yes Is that right we're on to bylaw Bond to bylaw A little delayed in getting there but uh
we're getting there Not so bad All right Um I noticed that and I invited a lot of people or to anyone who wants to speak to this Um I I would ask that uh they have an opportunity to speak and I I want to make that apparent So the town
administrative bylaw is something that the select board has been working on for months Um and we've gone over our rationale but as you the select board knows we've been receiving a lot of correspondence in this past couple weeks regarding it We've had a number of
meetings that have incorporated the um the well we had one with the board of health We've had uh input from the library director We've had uh or the library um chair of the committee of the trustees trustees We've had uh input
from boards as we've gone out to each of the boards trying to you know gather input and um so we've crafted this We've had multiple revisions of it but um we we continue to have uh a couple of
boards in particular who have voiced objections and I really think that we want to make sure we hear those and and thoroughly understand them So I do see a couple people in the room a couple people online Um and you know maybe I'll
start with um the library Sure If if you want to come forward and Thanks Jayen Hi Kayla Thank you for inviting me Uh I talked to Travis on Friday and we agreed we had a library meeting yesterday and so I'm just going to read a statement Okay So after discussing the proposed TA
bylaw with the trustees and members of other boards our overarching takeaway is that this bylaw is good for the town and town hall but not beneficial for the library Our primary concerns are over losing autonomy and about the intellectual freedom that's inherent to libraries Ideally we would like the word
library alongside any mention of the word school in the proposed by So what makes the library different that from other departments why are we asking for this many things make us different including the amount of staff the fact that we're located physically in a different location in town and the fact
that we have different state rules and regulations to follow The library has long been recognized as one of the most efficient transparent cooperative and fiscally responsible departments in town and its organization is exemplary Uh the library staff is one of
the largest in town after the school The nature of the staff we have is very different to any other type of department They have specialized credentials that do not overlap or translate to work with other departments The library maintains longer and different hours than town hall to serve the public and to abide by our state
regulations We've consistently conducted staff evaluations over the years Um and I know Kate has told us many times that you know you and Barney came and took the libraries eval and then that was the precedent for for what the town uses now which I know has been you know gone through other iterations But in
Massachusetts the vast majority of library directors are hired by the board of library trustees because the trustees are legally responsible for the library's administration including personnel matters and act as representatives of the public trust governing the library because they are
elected right in fact 71% of Massachusetts library directors are hired by the trustees and a mere 10% are hired by the town 16% though are hired in consultation with the trustees and the town So there are examples of a
collaborative you know agreement Um in 11 of the 13 communities that we've used for different things over the years to benchmark comparisons with carile So 11 have library trustees appoint their director including many of our neighbors Actton Bedford Chelmsford Harvard Groten
Lincoln Westford and and others Um we feel that a consensus from the trustees who are elected by voters should continue to be required to hire and fire directors We'd be happy to consult with the town administrator on this of course but we would like to take the lead Um
and then intellectual freedom is paramount Once we open the door to an appointed individual having library oversight we lose intellectual autonomy which is a foundation of a library In this era of book bans and threats against library freedoms Gleon patrons should be able to freely access the
materials they want here in town or through our consortium and other library partners And you know we find ourselves in a political climate where it's apparent how much a single individual can change everything We want to retain autonomy over the library and continue
doing the job that we have been doing to oversee an efficient professional operation And Scott last week at the at this meeting you said we're quantitatively different So we are here to just ask that the select board recognize that by including our name with the school in the TA bylaw And
there's president to do so Many other communities do this Um I did come up with some different things that we could do though as a concession to this act Um Harvard for example has a line in theirs about the trustees have the powers that
are given to them by the Commonwealth but employers are governed by personnel policies of the town In Hopkin uh trustees have firing hiring and firing power but the town manager annually sets goals with the library director with
input from the trustees uh Wayland also the town manager is responsible for ensuring the completion of annual evaluations of the job performance of all subordinate town employees not the school of course but including the library so the trustees do the libraries but then the the town manager in that
case does um you know um subordinate town employees so and there's more there's a lot more there and we had an hour yesterday to get through this which was obviously not enough time um and I know you have a time constraint too here So I
just want to say thank you We're available if you want us to come next Tuesday for a joint meeting And I again realize time is tight but so just thank you for listening to our concerns Sure Thank you Thanks for the input Can I ask a couple questions so one you mentioned some number of towns 16% of the towns y
had this joint situation Yep In those cases to your knowledge was it library trustee driven or ta driven you know and I would have to dig deep down I literally just pulled the data I mean it'd be good to know like those towns like what they actually Well I could look into that Yeah sure The other
question I have for you you said that the library has the second most number of employees after the school I don't know I think we're up there I don't know I don't have more than police Police We have DPW I don't know 14 You don't know how many employees you
have 14 14 So but I don't But isn't fire mainly volunteer well there's still employees I mean all I mean to say is you're you're a You're a largeish department but you're not like the schools I mean of course We're more like No most but we're also not like a one person No no but DW has
you know however I mean you're in that group of So I don't think I don't think that's a distinguishing feature Let me put it that way I think the other things you said perhaps but not that one Okay Okay So all right Caitlyn quick question too um the percentages you were giving
from various other towns Yep Were they all towns with the town administrator or did some have a town manager all towns in Massachusetts Okay So and that's or that's all the towns that the um Massachusetts Board of Library Commissioners had data on Okay Yeah And
do they do they indicate whether it's a town manager or town administrator they don't go into that level but you can But that doesn't remind me another you didn't you didn't mention conquered in your they have a totally different model which is what they have a corporation
yes they have a library corporation but how do they manage their it's privately funded $650,000 a year that's privately funded how do we get that they don't get town they don't have any budget money huh town money I don't know the specifics but I do know that
their model is very different from ours so it's not even worth comparing because I don't think we have $650,000 of fundraising annually that we could ever pull out I do want to talk about all of these in separately but or indivi or together but
I do have we have people Thank you very much Thank you Kaitlin If you want to stick around you could send us a copy of that because some of those lines you know the the language that you suggested we should have access Yeah No problem
Thank you um board of health I see Tony Tony's here You wanna speak love to have you your input Um well I mean I'm here to answer any of your
questions that I can I can't speak for the board right um and unfortunately you know when when we got the invite it was too late for us to post but um you know if you have anything further than what I mean so we've we've um
you've come to our board and we've had a discussion You've had a couple representatives We've we had a joint meeting and we brought in the u the Massachusetts Association of Health Boards speakers as well to speak to the issue And then um we've sent you a memo
just yesterday So I don't know how familiar everybody is with it We all so if there's anything beyond that that I can help any particular questions that I can help fill you in on um I'm happy to do that But I don't have anything else to present I think we presented pretty
thoroughly so far So Okay Yep the Tony the lady I forget her name who came Cheryl she was going to provide us with some language suggest she had mentioned I can't remember Belmont Belmont Belmont she was going to go research it was hard because they did adopt it so it's not
yeah we we tried to follow up with her we got a little bit of uh pieces from their actual town meeting conversation but we we don't she couldn't find a copy of the actual bylaw that was being the proposed and I looked
on their website like town meeting records and they didn't but she might have had in her archives Yeah I don't think that she didn't come back She's not uh she hasn't been able to find the specific She's not been able to find her She hasn't answered She said she tried Yeah she's right So okay All right Thank
you Do you need me to follow up with Cheryl at all or something communicated you know Yeah Thanks I don't have any further questions Um I think we got the memo We got We got
the memo We're We're going to I think talk about these you know in totality but I wanted to hear from everyone who wanted to present tonight or or speak and then we'll Yeah Thank you Okay Um certainly thanks for coming if you you know want to discuss it further with the
board we could set something up for that too That would be great Okay Thank you All right Thanks Um I see Sarah Yeah I see Sarah Smith Hey how are you good Good Um have you
had a chance to talk about this with the planning board and any No So um Ryan came to a meeting I don't know if it was I think it was two meetings ago so maybe about a month ago Um and I just received this on Friday We have not had a meeting So um I cannot speak for the board
Certainly um I can sort of summarize or certainly Ryan could um that I think when when Ryan came before the planning board I think there was definitely a mixed bag of opinions I think there was some some strong opinions that
um some some wording be edited And I I I see that you've made some edited edits from what we saw last time um that that um specifically that the town administer administrator can't create policy So
that it was you know really descriptive of the fact that it was really kind of a human resources and and operations oversight So I think that uh distinction is helpful I did have a little bit and again I cannot speak for the the full board and there was a wide range of of
opinions on the board Um but one thought I did have um you have paragraph 3.3.1 I thought maybe something um to add to your language might be along the lines of that the town administrator um cannot
direct um sorry what did I um cannot direct town staff in any sort of policym or cannot cannot direct their staff in any sort of policy decision So I just I I think I think this planning board is
going to want some pretty precise language Um well of course staff shouldn't be making policy decisions period that that's the reason we were interested in this bylaw is to make sure that the people on the committees are actually you know setting
the policy for what they want to have happen in to you know in town or whatever their you know if it's their purview of of board of health regulations or if it's planning zoning you know bylaw you know that's all the board's responsibility This is just
about staffing of to making sure that we get the staffing that is you know fits what the policies want rather than having a a staff member just say you know this is what I need And right now
we we each of these committees is that is elected at least is is responsible for those staff and needs to manage the HR of the staff And it's very difficult when you meet once every couple weeks to
run the HR for a department or something like that And that's why we've put this forward is we think that the town needs more professional management um from the HR perspective And that's that's kind of our rationale there
No and and I I certainly see some some benefit in that um in terms of professional development too and sort of um at least this is just my point of view um in terms of staff retention having having continuity in the
reporting structure I I I see a huge benefit in um but again there was the planning board's kind of consent not maybe not even a consensus but there was some pretty strong opinions that the um county administrator bylaw be very clear
that it was HR and and operational oversight not policy oversight Okay Maybe you guys need to review then our latest um draft because I believe that that was our whole focus in trying to
get that um and so because it sounds like there's some mis I think she did review the latest No she didn't Not with the board Not with the board That was they need to do that right so I think um
Sarah when will you be meeting again or or when will you have an opportunity for the board to review this latest version not until Sorry I've got the website open Um we're meeting every two weeks
However I think it's not till April 12th Okay Okay Well thank you Sarah I think that that's helpful to get the input Yes it's it's just a small thing I did meet with the planning board but that was about a personnel issue I did not meet about the TA bylaw I just want to make that clear
I I haven't done that and I won't do that We uh Sorry about that That was David I was there Yeah it was me Twinsies you can blame me Yeah sorry about that What's the leg so you were there and had the discussion about the TA You were away that time No no no no
You're the introducer of the bill in some of the in some of the whatever situation Okay Whatever Got it Anyway you're right I I represented this All right Um so is there anyone else um on a
committee I when I look out that would want to speak on this or has any kind of community input we're certainly looking for feedback and more insight We're trying to get it right Um
and I think that's kind of our goal here and we want something that you know is going to work I mean I I've tried to articulate this um multiple times that you know this is an HR bylaw that we're trying to get get the whole town you know kind of moving together and this
will allow us as we think about our you know costs going forward allow us to potentially have more shared resources through town just by having a centralized HR function And I think it it also right now we have
some liability relative to how we're currently managing employees And so when there are harassment claims um or other employee um issues that come up between employees
and you have really you know one department is separate from another There's no way to adjudicate those disputes And that puts the town at a real risk for a lawsuit at some point in time here And so it just seems you know
we have to do something about that And and we've used this as our kind of instrument to try and do that But you know we've heard some compelling reasons why you know the library has you know articulated that you know they're concerned about their autonomy Um one of
the things that and I I get that I mean the separate building that they're saying may not be I mean you could say that about the DPW or about some of these others buildings is separate but I do see you know the the argument about you know control of policy that if if
for some reason there was a rogue TA who went to a library director and said you're not going to have buy these certain books But I would think if that happened that would come back to the select board and the select board would
then deal with it and and I think that when you talk what would it come back to the select what's that mechanism well would come the trustees would would reach out and say to all the what would we do because we had this discussion last time and I suggested that in the
extreme case where the TA moves to remove that person from the position that that get put into the lap of the select board and that it's board to board then and you guys all said oh no no no that's way too complicated we don't want to do that so but really at the end of the day like the rogue TA
could do that and we wouldn't we wouldn't rise to it well and there's always the risks you know the the library trustees is a board of three people if they had you know people elected to the board that decided they wanted to go a certain direction then they're running that department and we
would say that's a difference You can't that's not a good parallel to draw elected boards are elected by the citizens and if they are screw up and we've had in our history examples of that right then then another election comes around and you you change I I
think one of my concerns is that if a board um who has the uh appointing authority does not follow correct procedure in either hiring or firing ing an employee and
have not done it in consultation with the head of HR that we are open to again liability as well because you know if they don't ask you know all of the candidates the same question or they give some you know but they're going to
do yeah but so this is this is another mechanism to ensure that policy and procedure are followed in town by all the areas in town right no no I I'm not disagreeing with that and I'm supportive
of a uniform policy I'm just saying that the word that you use that others have also focused on as maybe needs more nuance is consultation It's pretty open word Yeah And I was suggesting and I
will suggest again that there's a way to tighten that to require that a very few subset of decisions actually have to be boardto board Because at the end of the day we we the select board have oversight over you know I don't know the
percentage but let's say again schools aside well two 50% of the town functions let's say it's more functions fewer people so maybe it's 75% of the functions in town flow in some way to us you got schools and you got a couple of
these outliers that are independent and they have functions and the whole idea is we collaboratively board to board not through our appointed officials but us should work it out We've always said that we should be working it out So I
mean to me a remedy is you narrow the subset of critical things that absolutely gets elevated to the board level and everything else all the procedural stuff all you guys talk about can be handled by the procedural people and there should be no issue But can we
do that through a policy yeah that that you know requires the the town administrator to you know have the we have that when we hire certain people We have committee set up or whatever Do we have a policy that
requires the town administrator to you know if they're going to hire a new library director that the town administrator has to allow the autonomy of that hire and then fire And if you do that and you know you've you've taken away that HR authority You say you're
being pristine about it I'm trying to be practical Okay You're saying pristine HR hiring administering evaluation and firing And it all has to be over here I'm saying that's what's sticking in their crop because the hiring and the independence that Kayn's talking about
and board of health is talking about And at the ultimate end if you just can't figure it out the firing which is a big deal and happens very infrequently these are very few things and it is the duty of the elected boards and the two boards
I'm just saying it can't be the board by itself because that creates a different problem It's the two boards that now have to share that and work it out and let the boards do that and have a have that as part of the bylaw or a policy I don't know the mechanics I'm not the
attorney I'm just saying it needs to be written in whatever form it's written at least suggested Again I don't know whether these boards who don't like what we're writing would accept it but it is saying the main thing that I'm
reading in Tony's memo and kind of a important subset of what Caitlin said is is around that right it's about hiring and firing Yes Because that person that one person is really critical So is there a way we can amend
this i mean I'm think you guys told me no And where it stands right now is other people you in particular I don't remember the rest of that's too complicated I I'm influenced by I want the best for Carlile That is my recommendation We've gotten lots of back
and I'm I'm trying to find a way forward is why why I'm bringing this up So Scott do you have you've been very quiet here well can I while you're thinking about it let me just um respond about um the idea of uh changing
or or adding something to the existing bylaw language to address the concern about the shall consult words right because that those are the two words that um as you were saying David are not very specific and I don't have the
precise language but I think we could um add language that addresses a situation where the board or committee that's being consulted does not agree with the town
administrator And um the idea would be that at the discretion of the relevant board or or something excuse me something like this they could choose to take a vote on the TA's decision And if
a majority of the board uh doesn't agree with it then it comes to the select board that's something in and it's a little different than what you're describing but um so that the power is still ultimately
but it also it basically allow it gives the whatever board uh has an an employee uh that the TA wants to fire for example uh the board votes on the TA recommendation or they may choose to
vote on it accomplishes the same thing because it it prevents the TA from unilaterally acting until that board can convene cons deliberate and vote Now but the one thing I would say about yours Yes is it it could create an endless
delay They could just never put it on their agenda and keep it in limbo Whereas we the other my version my version would not allow for that it would immediately go board to board and we could drive I could see a situation where a board doesn't agree but they
don't want to get in a food fight for whatever reason and they just never put it on their agenda They just never do and we never voted it Sorry you can't act because we haven't voted yet Well this would I mean again I'm not the uh you know lawyer that could figure out
the language but if you could if you know you could write it in such a way that if the board chooses not to take a vote on it then it it goes forward the TA's decision goes forward but if the board chooses to take a a vote on it and
they they do not approve it you could say one cycle right um something like that then it automatically it does not there's no action taken and then it goes to the select board That's right I'm open Um I don't So that's one thought
anyway Go ahead Scott I mean I think at the at the core of this thing is you're taking the the power away from the committee and you're putting it with the TA and select board right and we're
talking about a case where rogue TA does something and then we don't like it and we get together Well what about if the you have a select board that's pushing an agenda and tells the TA go make this I mean I think I think you have that but you also have the opposite which is you
have the other board that agenda that has somebody who's antithetical to you know the town in some other way I mean I'm just skeptical that any you know we could wordsmith this to the end of the days But I think at the end of at the
end of the day it's still who's got the final say right but I'm Right but it's 80 to me it's 8020 rule The things I mostly hear about are not the hiring if I mostly it's I if I put my let's say
I'm the TA I want I would like or not not let's not personalize it the town would like to have a uniform set of policies regarding its employees uniform way of you know doing that here's what I don't understand
legally we can have the policy versus bylaw yep We can have HR policy We can have policy about town hall hours We can do all those things We can get other boards to sign up to adhere to the policy even if but
at the end of the day can is there an enforcement mechanism for all employees through policy or does it have to be through bylaw there is not Okay So we currently have a policy It currently covers everybody and it cannot be
enforced UN the most common thing you see with employees is they internalize the power of their own board Right so you have an employee who says well I'm a member of this board and I have this power That's actually not true So the board has that power but the employee does not So when the employee
internalizes that power they can say not show up for work or harass other employees or do these other things and their answer is well I don't work for you I work or the town I work for this particular board That is the most likely problem that you would face That's right
In any of these scenarios and does exist here right what we've been trying to do with this bylaw is to make it crystal clear that no matter who hired you y you are a an employee of the town and you are subject to its right So let me take
exactly what you said Right No matter who hired you So if if the hiring was consultative between the two boards and the TA that's a deliberative process Okay believe that however you do
you know committee or whatever because these are we're not talking about everybody We're talking about the library trustee the health agent you know some very specific people town planner I guess And then once you're hired congratulations Let me introduce you to Aubrey Thomas and by the way here's your
employee manual and you know there's your seat and you know we have Fridays off or whatever You know I mean you're subject to all the rules and regs right and what you're saying should go away And if it doesn't go away but you can't do that in your current structure No no I'm not saying I'm advocating for a
change to the structure I'm just saying there's a beginning point that I don't think honestly the TA should be hiring the health agent or the library trustee I don't think that's appropriate And there is an ultimate the ultimate you know act the power is to remove an
employee who absolutely refuses to comply that becomes a disciplinary thing and you know it seems I mean I I'm not gonna say me personally but the it's hard to argue against the central argument that that that ultimate
authority does not create some kind of influence So say fine we're taking that piece out and that also will be consultative It will no longer be an island of this committee but it will have to be consultative with the select board and its employee the town
administrator just two points just those two points everything else will be administered whether and I think it probably does need bylaw I mean that's where the lawyers will come some reference to that needs to be made in the bylaw then you can pop it in the
procedure policy I If we're going to go that direction we need to I'd like to make sure we get some buy in from the two It should be propos I mean again my proposal from what I hear is that if if the select
board picks some version between Barney and mine then yeah I think it should be resocialized Sure I also don't I mean as much as I agree with the arguments the library is making I also don't think we should make carveouts
I just I think you don't have to carve it out if you do that though No but but that's my point is is I don't once you start carving out everybody raises their hand and we don't have to get into why there are existing carveouts There's a reason for those but I don't so just in terms of the question of this group versus that group I don't think we want to get into that at all We want to make
a propose a bylaw I think we want to be very clear and transparent to the town for with the pros and cons when we argue it and be upfront about it and let the town decide which path Yeah Stay the course or change the course Right Agreed
So just to wrap that up with that do you want me to go back and get town council to massage this more is that kind of the Yeah because I think that that I'm I'm trying I've heard a lot of the other people support it I'm voice you might be
right But we've heard the feedback from the town I'm trying to find a way to make this work for sure because I think our town needs this but I'm sympathetic to if I'm on a committee and you know not the select board I I think you're right I mean you you want to have you
know the autonomy to hire or to be able to say I'm choosing this person You don't want some you know body choosing I think that's reasonable but but we got to get everyone on the same HR policy right so do we do we have an adequate you had mentioned in your email
there's the bylaw policy combo right um but if we're and I again this is where I don't know where the bylaw ends and the policy begins but if if the bylaw refers to a policy we need to I
think for a town meeting have the appropriate recommended policy also so that people understand right okay I I just want to say kind of the model I I have in my mind about the hiring at least the hiring if not the hiring is u
the OPM that we just hired and that the library just library building committee just hired where um our TA was there uh in a consultative uh capacity
gave them uh templates for the kinds of questions they should be asking made sure that the process was and what worries me is some committee thinking they don't need any help They're gonna go out and do whatever they darn well want And I want You're not suggesting
that He He does I Well I'm just trying to make people understand what the process looks like The TA in this capacity is not making the hire He's ensuring that the process is adhered to
right and that afterwards that the that employee that gets hired then follows he has then some disciplinary um authority so that if the newly hired um staff person staff person does not
follow the policy he's able to deal with it Yeah Without having to go and ask somebody And also then there's also that division between the nighttime government and the daytime government the nighttime government often is not aware of what's going on and you
know and so we need somebody who is a professional to deal with those issues and if it gets to a point where there's too many infractions maybe you know in the policy that's one thing that the the U appointing authorities can help us
with in in the policy is that after you know documenting this this and this the okay but everything you said we've covered that well I I want I think people don't understand how it's going to work So I'm just trying to step through it So that which people don't understand what's going people that are
objecting We got to I don't think that's I don't think that's nothing to do with it ends up not I don't think it has the effect they think it's having But there I'm reading this thing now There's nothing in here that indicates that the independent
board actually has the authority to appoint in the current draft of the T Yes Correct That's what I'm saying So you just said well why and you said like of course we don't want the TA to be appointing the you know health agent or the library trustee but actually that's
what the bylaw we have to make sure that that does happen in other towns in conquered they even the board of health they the TA does everything TM it's TM that's a important distinction well it's
yeah it is but I I mean okay anyway I Okay So we still haven't fixed the language obviously to make that So now from a process standpoint if I was to go back to town council and take this information I have and rework this I
think it would make sense to then socialize this with especially the library and the board of health and the planning board obviously has some some questions Um you know the consom had already voted with the initial draft KCcom's not independent elected anyway
No but but the employee they have their own employee who is again this is a huge liability for the town to have these these evening boards run these employees It just doesn't make a lot of sense So but if we do that process-wise do we
have the time to you know get this right and then get the you know bylaw do we have to from a warrant standpoint we have to publish the entire proposed bylaw you don't
We just have a placeholder Yeah So bylaws because of the long process that bylaws usually go through you need a description of what you're proposing a bylaw to do X The actual language doesn't have to be voted and
can be changed up to town meeting Okay your question You posed a question today or I think it was today whether to kick it to the fall or keep Well I I'm and I'm not I'm not proposing that but I'm saying that if you're looking at all
the options here of We're only looking at a couple different Good I would I would say we just keep going and we we do these changes I would say we you should not just do it oneon-one you and counsel like one of us should be with you because last time we did that it
didn't happen like I don't think what I suggested that you said you would carry to them that that message either didn't get to them or they didn't write it right I don't know from a from a standpoint what can can happen can we have two members do that or not for open meeting law no we can have two members
talk to the council about the bylaw like reviewing a draft that's been reviewed publicly yes making you can't have a discussion with your council You can't direct two members to talk to council You can I can Yeah I'm not going
to do it with this It's not his This is not Well I mean all I'm saying Travis is I don't think in the last iteration of the process you're suggesting that it worked out well Another delay Who would you like Barney you I'm I'm I'm about
making this work But I want the support of No I mean I'm giving you very vocal opinion Everybody else is kind of like being Well she's not But you know I'm just saying I don't think what you're going to whatever you do is going to necessarily change the fundamental
concern the other committees have Well then maybe before unless it unless you're why go to the work of council Why don't you have enough of a there's enough of a concept to vet that with the you're recommending that the appointing authority remain with the committees is
that what I am saying that in case we don't need it in the case of independently elected boards the critical function you can even name them right the three we're talking about town planner health agent and library trustee or library what's
the word director director director thank you that those be those appointments the consultative or whatever with two boards the select board and the other board and then they can direct the TA to
do whatever or the TA can drive the process you know that's all words smithing and then again once that employee is hired they're in the system and that's that until okay you make a good point though should we should we go to the boards first with this idea some
of them are here and can They're kind of all right They can't deliberate They can't deliberate but they need to go to their committee Yes in in in I mean why don't we ask let me suggest I'm not the chair I suggest that
Caitlyn and Tony and Sarah Sarah who are on can just let us know if they feel they have enough information from this discussion to go back to their boards or do we need to write something to them or whatever so that they can at least in
the next cycle deliberate that propo that proposed I I would think you needs something in writing because what you're my interpretation of what you're saying is different So I I think we need to so I don't think it needs to be legalized
It probably doesn't It needs to be a a process a new procedure of how you're going to retain the authority of you know elements of the board but still get them under the HR policy that we want to have consistent So because you were so
vocal on that why don't you do that okay I don't know any towns that have Let me ask um Kaylin when's your next meeting no it's not We're meeting on Monday at noon But can I just say I think that this is this what you you're getting at is what we are getting at Like we're
happy to follow the town personnel policies We just want to keep the hiring and and have that consultation piece be very very clear What does that mean does that mean a majority of the trustees get to participate in the hiring process do we all get to hire be part of it i I
think it's so as you as you've mentioned David it's so vague We want some more clarity but yes we're happy to follow the policies and we rely on Ryan and Aubrey and and for because they provide such a valuable function and then that doesn't take away the library the
librarians you know day-to-day jobs as librarians right the other piece for the library though that is vague is the word or the phrase day-to-day operations Is that buying books is that what does that mean it's a good question I don't know Well
maybe we maybe we use the term personnel policies Um well that's not the kind which is not really in the bylaw Well no Yeah I agree What what day-to-day means is um if there's you know everybody has to
come in to work and or whether you can work you know remotely or not So that so that those decisions are taken out of the hands of the individual staff where they just decide what they're going to do and not have you know where's I'm looking for is the current appointment
process in the bylaws for the different boards Is that a bylaw or a policy it's a policy It's a personal policy Yeah Well so ensure ensure efficient day-to-day operation Efficient day It doesn't say what they do It just has to be efficient But okay it's a good point Tony when is
your next uh meeting um excuse me We have a joint meeting on the 14th with planning board Uh but I I I think we are going to meet after that ourselves So the 14th Yeah So 14th and
if um and then I can I I don't have the subsequent date in my head but I can get you that Well I'm just I just want to have a sense of the timing And and Tony do you have any initial reaction just I know you you can't speak for the whole board but about the change we're talking
about I think it's a great discussion I I totally um am on board with the problem you guys are trying to solve I get it and um and I think it is an important problem to solve for Carl but um but the discussion kind of went back
to in um the ultimate resolution would be between say in our case board of health and select for it and I say no Okay In Massachusetts there shouldn't be any political component any other administrative component to the
decisions for the operations of the of the board of health and therefore the bearing on public health and that it's supposed to be separated for that reason So you know it it just looks too much like the select board wants to be able to run you
know the operations of public health and I say no to that So that's just me Okay Is actually absolutely not at all what we want to do Sarah can we ask Sarah sarah Smith if you're still Yes Hi Hi I
don't know if you've have a thoughts on that as the chair or not but um I honestly I don't feel like I can speak for the whole board I just I just I never know if the opinions are going to be I really and I really think having something in writing to take back to
deliberate or to have one of you there I think would be um Sarah Sarah when is your next meeting next steps Sarah when is your next meeting um April 14th we have a meeting with the board Oh
yeah All right Same night Wait La Palooa we'll have a All right Can I make I'm sorry Can I make two points you can Okay Um first point is the more the more boards you involved in in hiring and firing y the more public the process is
going to be And while current employees would like that because it adds more job protection future employees are going to be very unlikely to want to come interview publicly with multiple boards and expose that they're searching for positions to their current employ You can appoint a search committee It
doesn't have to be the boards don't boards can decide Ultimately the boards will have to vote and that public vote will become public when you're hiring and firing people which would which would create situations where people might not want to work for Carile or the type of people you want because if I was
going for another job you know I would want to know I was going to get that job before I told everyone that I got a new job right i think everyone can relate to that So the the while these discussions are good the the public nature of our positions is something that you need to consider here So when boards and
committees really need to solve a problem they like that HR function is solidified under a town administrator because we can perform these HR functions outside of the public meeting process and realm Second point I just want to advocate for
my employees and the current employees of the town and saying that there are many situations in town where there's an employee who's protected um who's under one authority who has a problem with a employee who's under another authority And if the problem
originates with an employee that's under the authority of someone else then that employee has no protection They have nobody to go to because they have to go to the appointing authority board And typically because of the politics that have been discussed and other things boards tend to isolate in their
employees and not deal with the HR issues that exist So um but I mean the two points you just raised are across purposes in in the today world because HR is complicated It's not no matter that if if library trustees want to hire a new
library director they have to do a public meeting right how else can they do it they do So how is that different than if select board is because if they also have to come to the select board i mean no they do it together I mean my point is it's already what you said you
don't want which is a public at the end there's a public uh yay or nay on the job and that person is now known to be a candidate for that job Right even in the Tony world they would do that Right I mean I mean you would
have to hire if you have a replacement agent that's a public event right you don't do it on a co what about the assistant no just I just said so who appoints the assistant I think that's I'm okay with being TA side I think you pick a very I'm trying to be very person
is not going to interview in public they don't have to why would they say health a by the board wait a minute you're making you're trying to make you're trying to create chaff and I don't like that I said it already Listen health
agent town planner library director Is there anybody else there's three people Yeah but I don't want I mean I know I'm leading No no but I don't want as a board member I don't want to uh hire those people either I don't have any idea what a good health agent or a good
library looks like So you'd rather the TA does it has a better what I want the TA to do is ensure that the process that those boards use are correct and and how is he
going to do that by just sitting in on those meetings helping them giving them a template of how you know well they can provide them a template and those guys can do whatever they please anyway What's he going to do then but then it also makes the the new employee
understand that there's a an HR department and that they are and and it also makes the the committee the appointing committee again it reaffirms that their their employee and I'm
putting that in quotes is a town employee that is going to be directed co-directed or you know there'll be some authority um and exe
uh it's not the right word not execution but um enforcement sorry authority outside of their board to enforce the the personnel policy that's what I all I
care about is that the all the so all right so riddle me this if I get it like okay don't select doesn't need to be involved in the hiring So the templates provided we could say that I don't know how it would work but the the TA would be part of the
search committee or be sitting in or advising I don't know what the role is but there be a role and it's super clear in the interview process that you will be a town employee and these are the rules and blah blah blah So everybody's forewarned the actual voting of the
position remains a public event Right Yes because it's the boards that decide then we're out of it the boards and so we got that and then we got the entire career of that person inside the walls of this you know system and then you
have the situation that Ryan alluded to where they're like I work for the board and this goes on and on and Ryan finally tries everything or not Ryan the TA tries everything and finally says I've escalated it I've gone to the
boards They're not doing anything The person's not doing it I can't have a move to terminate Is who does he inform that situation how does that how does that part because that's really the part that everybody Well first he informs the board of course and they say "Yeah yeah we'll do something." And they don't do anything
Well then he informs the select board who then then does what says there's a bylaw and a personnel policy and we are going to enforce this now Well there now you're back at my system But we do But only that's only the last step I know But we're talking about the last step
That's what all this is about is the last step But but if you're talking about a bylaw most of what you're talking about is policy We wouldn't put all this in like this whole refer to it in a in a at the end of the day that what goes in the bylaw if you're going to change the existing law is who has that ultimate authority right and
everything else is a policy So who do you suggest so let's well I but the existing law is as it stands we have responsibility for certain areas existing law say let's maybe try to wrap this up what we were proposing
is that that falls under the the TA the select board and we could put all the dressing around it but at the end of the day you wouldn't ultimately other than you say we'll consult you really wouldn't if I think that's all policy the trustees say we object we object you're like we consulted you we told you
sorry the bike right I would my my argument is that you all these permutations and processes are not bylaw that's all policy but at the end of the day the bylaw is someone has to have the ultimate authority you can't have a shared authority in the bylaw
how would you have a joint meeting we do it all the time everybody has a vote right you got five and five vote we did it we did recently only when there's some conflict I don't well no kidding you're talking about firing somebody don't think that's conflict no I mean I just don't see it I don't see it being a
practical at the end game the way you guys are suggesting and I think it plays into the concerns that that those boards legitimately have that the ultimate seating of authority has been given to admit no that's what I know that's why I don't think
any any proposed edits are going to change that fundamental concern you take me I give up then I mean I've tried again I've tried twice I will not because there's nothing to bullet unless the board agrees we should take a
different look at it There's no there's no point in changing I don't disagree with the sentiment I just don't know that trying to come up You only have to say at I don't know the words Lawyers will do the words but at the the termination has to be joint between the
select board and the hiring board hiring authority whatever it's called for specific determination for cause and then you're going to highlight the specific positions that fall within it Now cause is a whole different cause
Well we don't have no cause talked about this for a long time and and it just is unfortunate that we're we are kind of towards the end of our timing on this and and I want we all recognize this is an important problem that we're dealing
with and we've got to do something about it and I'm trying to work with the boards and get them you know as many people on board but you know there is some some well ways that maybe we can't but but maybe we should try I don't know
I'm okay with trying but And there's no I mean what surprises me is there's no We're not the first town to deal with this And we I haven't seen an example of any existing bylaw language that addresses these concerns Maybe it's out there I
can go continue to look for it But well did the lady say "Oh Caitlyn you mean not Caitlyn?" No Cheryl Cheryl because it was her consultation Tell us what town I voted Belmont Is there any other town to Scots
if you pick a town I can tell you probably Pardon no A town where they put in place Every town has a different version of this because of the politics around it Are there town versions that you think would be useful as [Music]
benchmark appropriate yeah I agree Not appropriate for him to It's a struggle because it it's the executive level position So the difficulty you have is you you always picture the quote unquote rogue t the worst TA or town manager possible that is politically dividing
the town because they've dreamed of doing that at some point in their life right so they they come in and they're like "We're going to change policy." What what what I think needs to be addressed however you address it is I'm going to use the library because Martha
is maybe our best employee right wow So it works in the library Sure Right So if someone from the library staff comes to me and says "Martha's not coming to work every day and I think that's unfair and I just wanted to let you know." I go to the library trustees and I say "We've
gathered some evidence and your employee isn't coming." But the library trustees like the way Martha runs the library and they don't really want to upset the apple cart right and that's allowed to go on and on and on and on for years There's nothing you can do about it The trustees don't want to do anything about
it That's the more likely scenario right the rotier eventually will show up some but the unrog I'm but I'm trying to help you actually let's forget the rotier because I agree the rota is not really you should protect for that but you shouldn't design for it So you go to the
library and you say Martha's not coming to work and they shrug their shoulders You say I'm the TA I'm going to sit with her tell her the policy We're going to try again You do that three or four times and you escalate it through whatever levels you have in your in your
policies your personnel policies and you finally come back and say "I've tried She refuses She gives me a lot of excuses It's not acceptable I'm going to recommend termination." And I'm just saying and
and as the thing is written you say "I'm recommending termination." You have now consulted with them that you recommended termination They say "Oh please don't do that she's a great employee You say "I'm sorry I tried everything We're moving to terminate." And you've ticked the box of consulting and you go off and do it and
they're like "Yeah yeah." So yes in most cases I think the fact that you have that authority will move them to action rather than to shrug their shoulders But now you know to put a safety mechanism it' be like I'm going to move to recommend a joint meeting between the
select board and the trustees and it will be an open meeting or I guess I don't know the rules If if she requests executive I don't know how that works but it's essentially a disciplinary meeting right if the board does it if the board agrees to take it up if the
board does the HR action it has to be done at executive session well then do it in executive okay so what I mean you have now that forcing function like absolutely I told you guys nothing was done she refuses to work with us this is
the final step so what I'm saying is no one can compel the board of trustees and I'm using an example because it's ridiculous This Mars is great No one can compel the board of trustees to do that So if they just say no no to a joint meeting Yes Well we can
can't we hold it and they just didn't show up They could hold it but they don't have to show up They don't have to show And if they're going to be part of the vote then Well it'll be 5 mil the other way I guess I don't know I mean are you saying the boards won't work for you i don't know That seems weird to me That seems
weird Okay Okay All right I don't know what to do I think it would be nice to know is is this just not well Okay I said like I was quoting the paper
correctly that in the last article I read on it that you know I said we owed it to the town to at least propose something that we had tried very hard to uh edit or you know craft to meet the
various opinions we saw And so I see this as the last step but if there's not support for it then we stick with I don't think there's it I don't think that it's that there's no support for it
but I think it just very difficult to express it in a bylaw I think we you're hung up on language We have professionals who know how to write stuff right i mean I wouldn't get hung up on uh hung up on lang It would be nice then if we go back to the our
consult and say the sticking point is this consult Yep Well I thought we did that We did that right we held I held off because I wasn't sure at the end of the discussion you had said that but the whole board hadn't really and I don't want to spend the
legal dollars when we haven't vetted this Right So so maybe we're back to if people agree you should go back to council with all this stuff and say you need better words So I'm in favor of that Uh I do think we
need to define what's the change that we want It says shall consult right now Are we saying we want it to be um we want to change it so that the the board that has
a um h has hired a staff person that the board consults the TA Maybe it's backwards Maybe we need to require that the board consult the TA the the HR before they do hiring and firing
But the goal would be we're trying to um address the concern that we're not giving that the boards want to retain uh a uh a role They want to retain the
ability to uh approve or not approve a hire or a fire which I have in certain respects not too much problem with But what I want to do is to compel the boards to come to HR before they hire or
fire anybody And and then and but I I guess I would like to see it be a little reciprocal somehow Um because again I'm worried something about um I know it doesn't really fall under the TA bylaw per se
but something about um you know that all all town staff are required to um follow the personnel policies or or you know somehow in the bylaw or in the personnel policy Well I
it says it currently the all you're supposed to adhere Is that correct all the personnel in the town are in the personnel policies All employees are required to follow the personnel policies by bylaw Right Right But the only enforcement mechanism is if the appointing authority enforces the bylaw
Uhhuh Right Okay So maybe a man that all boards are directed to instruct their employees to follow the bylaw Well no that you give the TA the authority to require Yeah I mean I feel like we're going in circles here We've covered all
that We do need We've covered all this stuff many times It boils down to one simple thing Do we want to adjust that language shall consult in such a way to reflect that whether we reference a policy or we write it in the bylaw let
the lawyers tell us how to do it But at the end of the day like to discuss when you take the two together does it give a prescriptive method to hire and to fire the other stuff the middle stuff we got and let them take a crack at it I'm okay
with that Well hire fire and discipline Well discipline I think is already in there but sure No it's not Fair enough Discipline Discipline Okay Are you willing to do that are you on board with doing that or you think you want to hold firm on your on No I I I think it's a good goal I think at the end of the day
it's going to come down to who has that final authority Um if they should suggest some language the attorneys Yes Yeah I'm Yeah I mean Tom I'm skeptical
but Ethan's you know a good writer but Tom is got the breadth of towns He could do what Ryan doesn't want to do I'm prepared to give you the authority to do that Fair enough If the board if the rest of the board's
in agreement with that Arie are you yes Yeah I'm fine with that Yeah I think it would be Okay I do think though that bylaws ultimately need to be fairly simple and straightforward And so yes And that's what we did We took it less prescriptive
and we said we more can bylaws can refer to policies right yeah Right Yeah Okay I got it Great We've spent a lot of time Thank you to the public who's diligently sat through this Um
Ryan we're our next item All right What's our next item we are on CPC and other So ADU we we're leaving that to be done right i think managed right there are there people here who
wanted who came about the ADU bylaw you better cover that in particular And I and I also saw that the historic Chrissy O'Shea was on and I wasn't exactly sure um I know they had asked to remove their you saw that the remove the demolition
delay bylaw but I didn't know Chrissy I I'll if you're there I'll give you a chance to talk if you had something you wanted to bring up before the board Hi Sorry I was just trying to get That's okay I'm sorry Our conversation's dragged on here but we've had to cover a
lot of things So no it's all very interesting and necessary So um we um I think Ben Herder who's the co-chair was at some point in the waiting room Brian I don't know if you are running that or not and you want to look to see but um
we're here just um to answer any questions and to thank you for the consideration of the bylaw up to this point Um we can speak a little bit further but um if
you need us to Um but yeah we're sort of just here for a reference you had sent us an email so we weren't sure Yeah But Chrissy are you is has the um historic commission discussed and and agreed to
have the demolition delay bylaw taken off the May town meeting That's that's our recommendation um as chairs at this point after various discussions Um we haven't formally voted
because we haven't met Okay yet We do that on I think the 16th of April Okay Um we have to vote this before then That's fine So that's we can't vote it on contingent on Huh Well I think we had
talked about moving it regardless So yeah we did actually So we're kind of relieved that they and I and I just to just to clarify it's it's the the request is not to withdraw the the warrant totally but to move it from the uh spring town meeting to the fall town
meeting Correct Yep Okay Okay So I I think the select board hears that and it sounds like would be is very supportive of that So we will likely do that and you know take it off of the Springtown warrant just so you're aware
Okay There'll be a vote by the select board but I get the sense that that's going to be Yeah Okay Does the board need to formally Does the select board need to formally vote on that yes we will But we won't do it tonight We're going to do it I think at our next
meeting and Yeah Yep April 8th Great Do you have any questions for the store commission at this juncture i don't think so Ahead of that no Okay But thank you Thanks for waiting around so long too No thank you Appreciate it Okay
Ryan All right The ADU bylaw will not be fully ready or vetted by the time the warrants signed So do you want to save your recommendation for town meeting yes Yes Done And are we going to have though a a a
more full discussion about it before then as a select board or no i would demand it already Good Yeah I should be saying it differently Yes we would like a full discussion of it uh as a select board
Okay great So we'll we'll put that on the agenda going forward And then a bunch of people are here I'm assuming about the citizens petition I think that that's next And we have u I think one of our leads You want to come forward sure
Please do And introduce yourself and Sure Hey everyone Um I'm Maline Blake 127 Carlton Road Um it's late I have a few things I could say about the citizens petition or I could just take questions I don't want to
belabor All right I guess I'll jump into it Thank you for the opportunity to address our citizens petition warrant article Our article asks the town to advise the planning board to present alternatives to their current neighborhood overlay plan including an alternative that reszones the minimum
amount of land We initiated this article because we don't have confidence that the current planning board process is going to result in the best choices for our town Our overarching goal is to minimize harmful impacts to our town from this mandate Um I'd like to briefly
talk about two aspects of this One is the process and one is the alternatives that are under consideration themselves substantively First the process We acknowledge that there is superficially a discussion of alternatives going on in planning board meetings right now But it's like watching a movie where you
know the end Um a majority of the planning board is so deeply invested in the neighborhood overlay plan that it seems really unlikely to us that they're going to seriously get behind any other alternatives Most of the current process since January involves the planning board
creating um a list of pros and cons for their their four possible alternatives Um it it seems to us to be very self-justifying Um the judgments about the pros and cons of these alternatives um are biased and at times factually
inaccurate Um there's little doubt in our minds and we we do have a perspective but from where we sit there's little doubt that this list this matrix no matter how big and fancy and how many colors is really going to be an honest assessment or really a
justification from what's already been decided The alternatives themselves there's there's a paradox in Carlile Because of the need for lots of space to site septic and well infrastructure there's very little chance that a plan that reszones the minimum minimum amount
of land will be fully fully built out However there's probably also no way to add extra land just to support the size of development that we want and ensure that that extra land won't itself be completely built with even more dense housing Three of the planning board's
current alternatives propon proposed to reszone much more land than required and each carries in our view an unacceptable risk that all of this extra land will be built with housing potentially hundreds of units more than the 95 units were required to zone for I'd be happy to
explain in more detail about these three alternatives but I'll wait to get a question on that or I could follow up with an email Um I just want to mention the town of Lexington It's a cautionary tale of what happens if you reszone too much land Um their planning board
recommended or or projected before their initial vote that buildout would be really slow that there'd be 400 to 800 units in 5 to 10 years Um they their initial zoning plan reszoned for over
12,000 units which was 10 times more than the 1,200 that was their quota from the state um contrary to what their planning board projected they got 1100 units approximately in the first year Um there was a citizens petition in that town and this March in their town
meeting there was overwhelmingly a vote over 90% approval to dial back the districts Um and the newly redrawn districts accommodate somewhere between 2,300 and 2500 units They have a complicated issue about a bunch of people apparently got grandfathered so
they weren't able to completely dial it back Um the final final area of concern that I want to mention is the voting thresholds It just seems odd to us that the planning board doesn't seem to be paying attention to how hard it's going to be to get anything approved Um
although the housing choice act of 2020 created some pathways to approving MBT MBTA community zoning with a simple majority vote most of those pathways are not available in Carlile Um our read of the town is that there are about 30 to
35% of the residents that just don't like this because it's a mandate and it's going to be very hard to persuade them to vote for anything Um so looking at the twothirds majority required and that kind of subset of people if if they turn out in anything proportionate to
their numbers no plans are going to pass and we're going to go into non-compliance Um so with that I'll stop I'd be happy to answer any questions Right So what is your ask what are you asking we are asking for the planning
board to present additional alternatives at fall town meeting right and aren't they aren't they in this town meeting requesting some funding to do that very thing they're requesting funding I don't know what they're going to do with it I mean is that true they've stated it's for a housing consultant right for a
housing consultant Isn't that the whole point to provide alternatives I think that's what they're asking for Maybe we need to get them to clarify I mean there is ongoing discussion of four alternatives and my understanding is that the consultant would be to support all of the work that
they're doing but I'm not the expert on that No but you seem to be indicating that they're sort of gaming the outcome and I guess I hear conflicting things from you Meline One is that unintended consequences We could have like a zillion units but yet you said it won't pass anyway So
like which is it that it won't pass i don't know if it's going to pass or not I think it's unlikely to pass right that it's going to be really tough I think it's difficult to get something to pass And then we have another bad outcome which is non-compliance with a potential lawsuit from the state So nobody wants non-compliance So I would think and
maybe we have to ask the planning board to clarify that the use of funds that they're requesting will be to provide alternative provide enough data to come up with alternatives I mean it seems like honestly like it's a waste of time
to challenge them when they've already said we we acknowledge that we need to do more exploration Why don't we just make sure that that's clear in their bylaw and not have like you know a kind of a he said she said back and forth when if they already say like I want 25K
or whatever the number is to get more data like why don't we just support that like that's a great idea Please go get more data and come back in the fall Personally I think getting outside experts and consultants is a good idea So I'd agree with you Maybe we don't need the citizens petition Maybe we just
need clarity on the planning board's intent and we can all support it and give them 25K and let them go do right I guess from my point of view the issue isn't totally answered by having a consultant Well then you got to tell them what is it do you want yeah Well I
was going to say how do you end up getting what because it doesn't sound like you're proposing anything You're just saying we're we don't trust the planning board at this point And and my read on this is that they the planning board put it to a subcommittee The subcommittee did a lot of outreach but
you know there are some that felt like that was pre-ordained and they had a plan that that they came back and threw it back to the planning board and the planning board said "Geez we we hear these concerns We're now going to put forward four different options One's a
dense option one's the original option that was at the subcommittee and then one they're two kind of hybrids in between I mean I I don't know I think of that as kind of a a public fair process that they you know they heard they came
they they reoriented and now they've got four things What specifically do you want beyond that we want a better process I think a process that has more public input into it where where they respond to us where they listen We want more information about the vetting of
these proposals while our concerns about the hundreds of units can be addressed Yeah But they've held public meetings You've been there I think No I'm I'm there I'm there You're there at all of them and and many of your your con people supporting you I know there's others in the room that want to weigh in
on this and I want them to because I think this is important for us to hear and you know this is a I wouldn't say a pre-Town meeting but this is helpful to understand what we're what we're dealing with So if you don't mind I'm going to just ask can I ask a very specific question so in the in the wording of
what I'm looking at it says at least two alternatives to the multif family conservation cluster strategy the four options that they're working on now are they all considered multif family no there's four options Okay Is one of those a multif family and are one is
multif family i call it neighborhood overlay and and and so right now of the four options are at least two of them alternatives to the multif family cluster options three of them would be okay So I guess my question as it relates to the proposed article is if this were to pass and it it would direct
them to do that which it sounds like they're doing So I'm I don't I don't I don't want to get into the the process with this question but it's I'm just trying to figure out what this article if approved would would would accomplish if they're already providing two alternatives We um part of what we're
asking for is the an alternative with the minimum amount of land required Okay Which is one thing that's technically on the matrix or on the agenda So that would be part of the revised Okay Gotcha Okay That's more specific That's helpful Well the the I didn't want to go in the
weeds with you guys too much but the middle two the medium density options what they rely on is zoning a larger piece of land letting the developer develop on a small part of it and requiring them to put the rest of the land into conservation I don't think that's enforceable at all So you're
you're going to end up with um But a consultant would help us determine that right town council could probably answer it in 30 seconds I would think Okay Um Ken Yeah Well please inter come up and introduce so everyone on Zoom can hear
you as well I'm Ken Mello 30 Kimble Road Uh I have worked pretty closely with Maline on on some of this and on this petition Few things I want to say I think one important point that this article
attempts to accomplish is to establish a two-way public dialogue with the plan Okay I mean with all due respect meetings are wonderful You know attending public meetings but those are highly controlled very limited
opportunity for public engagement We get to ask a few questions We don't generally get answers but they really aren't productive from in the sense of really capturing public input because the agenda allows very little time for
public input Their meetings are four-hour meetings They don't have a lot of time in that to engage with us Now they did hold the subcommittee did hold two open houses but again it was there basically to educate the public inform them on the plan that they already had
wanted to present Now in those meetings they took polls on how residents felt about those uh the plan they were putting forth The reaction was overwhelmingly negative Okay So that should have been a clue that we needed something beyond what we have As far as
I can I'm concerned if the planning board has every intention of following through and doing what's being asked then they should have no objection to having this article which in in essence endorses a more open multi- option plan
to be put forward Great Thank you I'm done Thank you Yeah If you want to come forward please state your name and address please Ray Modin Barry Corner Road So I want to bring up one example okay of an interaction that uh kind of went nowhere
So if you look at the four options right now one is the multi- family cluster plan okay it's on basically to build on on a 2acre or approximately 2acre parcel Okay the the MBTA law the 3A law says 15
units per acre That's the density requirement You're not going to get 15 units on two acres How do you get around that so there's a set of exclusions in the 3A law right now There's seven of
them One of them is not nitrogen sensitive land So what we discussed was well what's nitrogen sensitive land well maybe if we can get the state to say 90% is excluded and we build on the
remaining 10% The EOHLC which is the executive office of housing livable conditions They're the they're the enforcement arm of the uh the attorney general right now They're the ones who write the regulations that are built on a paragraph in in the 3A law right now
So well wait a minute Now we're going to actually say we want to exclude 90% arbitrarily and build on the remaining 10% so we can fit 15 per acre So you can get that density because you're saying only 10% of the two acres
is really counting towards the land that you're building on So when you when you build three units you divide it by not two acres you divide it by eight 08 acres So the density goes way up to like 36 Ah we
passed How about all the other towns in Massachusetts what have they done what if what if Boxford's or or Boxford or maybe uh you know STO wait a minute You never told us about that How come we
can't get that density exception that's an example So I I actually brought this up to the planning board Of course I had a plant you know given the the procedures of the meeting I got to speak at the end for a few minutes And I
said all land is nitrogen sensitive in Carlile That's correct How about my house i said if you look at my sump pump I look at the water in the sump pump Is that nitrogen sensitive absolutely So why can you say that the water under my house that 10% is not nitrogen sensitive
and the other 90% is excluded or you you exclude what's under my house but you don't exclude the other 90% So I brought that up and says well you know we're really trying to make this work That was the answer So that's the
kind of interaction that you get at a minute or two at the end of a meeting you know and you know obviously following the rules of what the what the planning board is doing in terms of the process and it's really hard to to get beyond that to actually solve a problem
That's the issue Thank you All right Are there other comments yeah please come forward Cindy Craft 75 Patch Meadow Lane I guess the question I would like to see the planning board of the town ask the town's people is how many units would
they like to see built because under under the MBTA law it can be zero to infinite And I I would like then the planning board to be guided by the number that the residents ask to be
built Not what the not what the state has suggested because the state has put us in a position where we could build those But we have to open ourselves up to a risk of building 10 times that to be able to do that So let's ask the
residents how many units of MBTA housing would they like to be built I will note that the chair of the planning board is on this Um so I'm sure she's listening and wants to you know taking feedback or taking input but yes
please come forward this is helpful to for us to understand but at the same time you know it I don't know the board would have to decide this but I don't think that this is really our purview we're we've really delegated it and rightfully so to the planning board but
you're welcome to tell us what you think in the public form responsibility please introduce so my name is Neilia Fornier uh 745 East Street so how I see this uh warrant article is that it's not adversarial ial to the planning board Um but it's not
duplicative right now because what we're just asking even if the warrant article goes through that they get the funding to explore We're just asking that after this exploration after they go through the the four choices that they actually
bring to Falltown meeting the additional two options So it's not we're not an argument with them We're we're asking just to follow through on the process to bring four or bring two Well the warrant article says to bring two additional two including a minimum or yes sorry a
minimum of two the minimum land minimum two total one at least one alter No but there's also a minimum land one of the options is a minimum amount of land required So um so I I think that there's nothing wrong with asking for the follow through and having asking for the town to be
able to vote on multiple alternatives So that's how I see it Thank you Makes sense Okay Are there others yep Please come forward Considering this a long Hi I'm March Ruby 784 North Road And I I just want to
point out I'm sort of probably not as well informed about procedure as most people never admire but um it seems to me that if you look today at the website for the planning board the commitment is
to bring forward one or more options So there is no commitment to bring forward more than one option at this point in time and that's been there for quite a while They also have all of the
information that has been in the open houses on the U multifunal cluster plan And so I think what we've tried to do is to work cooperatively and to share the knowledge that we've gathered as a group I know a
lot of us have um other jobs You people all give a lot of time to the town and that's very much appreciated Some of us are retired and that gives us a little bit more time to do research and to look at things in more detail Um the point I
would make is uh what is the harm of having this warrant article on the agenda for the town meeting that is asking for multiple options So ma'am ma'am this is a citizens
petition so it's on the warrant no matter what The select board can't take it off Well it it seems to be considered superolous I guess would be the word Well there's there's no the the um well my understanding is it the question more
for our board is would we support the petition or not or just not take a position on it Okay Well that's very fair Yeah that that it'll be on the warrant and um so that's why I think was
saying you know our our role is somewhat peripheral Um thank you But thank you I'd like you to say something I think because well and two the to be my understanding is if it were to be approved it's an it just it's an
advisory approval It doesn't require it's not like a some of the other things we're discussing where you're actually getting an approval in Right So there's two different things and I maybe I was a little hard on Meline because she was first but I
think if the planning board did as Mr Modin said and give him you know 30 seconds at the end of the meeting and not actually do like what we're doing which is really sit down with studied opposition to any
contentious issue and really thresh it out Then you know Sarah I would say maybe take that as a point of advice that next time maybe that should be done because my feeling is the most efficient town process is to duke it out in these
meetings and when you get to town meeting have something that's crafted with everybody's opinions considered and not have this A lot of people parachute into town meeting in a minute now A lot of people parachute into town meeting They're not as versed These are
complicated issues and we sit there for an hour and people say things that are sometimes tangential sometimes emotional go in circles It's not as efficient And again I'm not directing any of you guys I think you guys you know took it to
heart what you wanted and you're trying to articulate So that's one thing I want to say and I apologize if I was a little tough like why don't you just combine them but I realize it's not that easy The second thing was though clarity of the bill like what are you asking for so
it's very clear to the voters like if I support this that means X and that's thank you I just want to add one other thing though We dked it out but we still may come up with a TA bylaw for instance that not everybody's going to like No of course you're not Listen you're not
always going to get popular decisions but I'd say we are I think doing an okay job at saying bring your You're very welcoming David That's me They have their hands up David I just wanted to say this is the most
productive discourse we've had on subject Yeah Maline wants to say I just I wanted to say the same thing We've already had more of a discussion here tonight than we've ever had So we appreciate that Okay The the one question I had from
listening to this and I think it was Miss Cindy Crab said it but is as far as you know how many units do do people want built one of the things that that I was trying to understand or I had heard from some people because lots of people and some of you in this room even reach
out to me and and voice your opinion and which is great But is there a a group that wants to comply but wants to have very minimal you know compliance but at the same time very low
um very well not just density few things being built buildout I don't think we know the answer to that question I think I think the planning board should have gone and sort of asked the town at large done a survey but my guess is that most people
would like a very low buildout Depending on how many acres and where you place it you could get that Right Okay Right Well I just want to point out and that's we don't feel that that's being in disingenuous to the state at all because
you know you can look at it from another point of view This is an unfunded mandate from the state Here's the way I look at it The state needs revenue Where are they going to get the revenue from those $1.4 4 million houses being built in Bedford So people are coming you know
with relative wealth to be able to to pay higher taxes to the state Okay that I think that's what's going on But my point is they're shifting the burden of the costs just talking about the 3.46 number that you were talking about earlier in the meeting today um to the
local towns So if for example if we go over a threshold I don't know know quite what that threshold is right now but if we go over that threshold of a number of students added to our school system I don't know whether it's 100 or 150 I don't know where the break point is but if it hits a certain point and we have
to do a $50 million whatever to satisfy an MBTA mandate what is the state going to do give us 5% back of our money with a grant right i think that's so so my point is that I don't think we're being disingenuous to push back on the state
to say hey you know here's your here's your six acres there's some ledge on there you know the convent land is a good one you know so I think that that's in my view how if you're united or if there are certain people need to
articulate that message to the planning board and to others and if you've tried and it's not is falling flat I do know the chairs here and listening to this and you know keep going with with that if that because as David said you know
it's best if you can get this all worked out ahead of time rather than getting to town meeting And so I'm pleased that you're we're working at this now Anything else Barney well um from what I'm hearing
um it sounds like it's it that uh having the opportunity for the town to weigh in on uh the MBTA through this citizens petition is a good idea because there's
not a lot of time between now and uh the town meeting for the planning board to sort of you know do a re a redo or right and so uh you know it's a non-binding
petition Uh but it does give a sense of where you know residents would like to see this end up Um so I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing at this point in time to have the petition on the you know to have it Not that we're deciding whether or not it's being considered but
just that uh I I think it's it it's a good thing to let residents vote on Totally Yeah My only concern is we have a lot of business to get through on town meeting night and I can see this There might have to be some kind of time boxing on
Yeah but be aware like that There'll probably have to be some time because I'm sure a lot of people have a lot of opinions to express and we have to come up with the order of the war So that's not tonight I'm resigning at close of town meeting and I've got plane tickets for you know
a day after that We're going to you're optimistic What do we got just saying this is I think this is pretty much CPC right uh you're at number one of CPC and other I know we don't have to do we have to cover all this today have to do So
the just I'm not trying to complicate but the the order matters for people who are trying to do their marketing plans and advertising and yes the order or whether how they're considering we're discussing sequence article 17
that matters to their marketing plan we want to say well for article 34 but we don't know if we're article 34 can we say article 34 we are going to do that article 100 and then it'll be the last one We hadn't planned to get to that till till next meeting which we're
meeting weekly Tuesday meeting We'll make that next Tuesday falls on a Thursday What's left in your list then besides CBC cbc is kind of a its own thing right it's just double Yeah
Oh my god look at that We have emptied out the room Thank you We appreciate you have something you want to add It's good to see the We got to have one and two Are we are we deciding on two that we should request a
little more clarity in use of funds yes Yeah I think that'd be a good thing to do So who's the who's the the planning consultant we would like to have more uh information on number two please from the planning board Planning board It's not me No it's it's it's me
David It's you So I direct our TA and our town planner Please come up with the order and work with the chair of the plan It is David Modell Yeah I already I knew that already I already told him that She
told me that So more clarification on use of funds like what's 25K going to be used to Yeah with an I to try to now that they've heard this like Thank you address the issues as much as you can like that would be a good answer Right Right We're gonna use the 25k to do boop
which is what like present to come up with multiple uh factbased multiple options at full town meeting including to do that including one high density and one low density I mean by somebody who doesn't have town meeting and have four options and everybody's going
that's okay I just want to get through town meeting one at a time All right Okay Ryan next Cemetery improvements Cemetery improvements and mosquito monitoring I think should be a goal for tonight Okay Okay Well or not I think
cemetery improvements should be made This is the one with the imaging software and a drone The drone Yeah Um I or an online system too No it's not the drone No no no There is a there is a drone component It's for the mapping Oh whoa whoa whoa Okay Sorry We don't keep
it We don't keep um I attended the meeting today that they reviewed that Um I I won't get into all the specifics but there's a lot of questions for the future about the cemetery All those are are relying on getting information on like where everything is Uh so I I think
this is necessary and I I think the committee's done a really good job to CTF I move we I move uh we support uh the cemetery improvements um warrant article Second All right Any further
discussion and FINCOM supported this or you uh didn't take a vote but we're generally supportive of it Great Okay Yeah we have a Yeah motion All right All in favor i Okay we're supporting it
Mosquito monitoring You had a presentation about the mosquito monitoring from the board of health at the end of your last meeting with them But I mean the argument was the other guy Everybody does it so we should do it But it didn't really Oh I thought it was actually pretty compelling Yeah I did
too Collecting the data I collect the data It's not spraying It's not spraying It's collecting data How much like 15k or something 15 This is an on but it's ongoing It's going to be an ongoing thing Well I know but I mean mosquitoes are a thing right right And and if
they're going to close the playing fields in in conquered we don't know Maybe ours is different We should know that That did happen this past year right um fair enough I'll go ahead and make that Sorry
Christina you are raising your hand I am Thank you I actually have a question of whether um if they decide to switch from monitoring um to um spraying or um any
other kind of remedy Does that have to go back to town meeting yes Or is that I'm sorry Yes this would only cover monitoring and they were explicit about that too And the language would wouldn't allow them to do mitigation or spraying Okay So it'd have to go back to county
Yeah These funds wouldn't couldn't be used for that Excellent Thank you Okay Anyone else okay We um we have a motion Sure I move to support mosquito monitoring Second Okay Any further
discussion seeing none All in favor i Okay We unanimous Hey look It's 10:00 That's it I think we should talk about what to accomplish next meeting Okay How full is the agenda x put a box Hold on I'll You want to
pull up the agenda actually were there any articles that you needed to consider moving to the fall well they've already Well the financial ones we try not to historical they've already self moved right i mean is there a big discussion about debate that we
have to have about articles move in the fall or it would only be TA oh have all the other bylaw there were a bunch of bylaw TA ADU No there was like the no solicit and all that stuff It all got moved All got moved Okay good So that's great That's we don't have to spend time
on that All right Good So what's what what's our window of time next Tuesday to continue this part So the major piece and I I do think it it's going to get significant discussion is the fire station renovation which we have to have
That's important So you're going to get a full presentation with Yeah So that's the first hour basically and then and then we got to revisit the police station once the committee meets Right Right Okay So that would be I'm not going to recommend something but then it
looks like we have another hour at least maybe two hours to continue So okay 7 8:00 tell me 8 to 10 basically right y the library trustees wanted to convene they offered if they wanted to do that
if are we going to have a draft in time to for Monday for yeah next week we should push for that All right let me I'll reach out to Tom tomorrow sometime tomorrow and see if he could get that because it would be helpful to get their input I think they're an important Let
me have a conversation with them I'll send him a note tonight Yeah I I would personally like to try to figure out how we move this rather than you know there was rather than delay it to fall town meeting I had to mention that in the memo I just thought that was appropriate
Barney Oh and I I think it's fair to lay it out for the town and let them say I mean it's if they say no we don't like this keep it the way it is then okay I mean right Yeah I think as long as we lay out the arguments Does he like Tom at Harrington Heap or Tom admires
Harington harrington Heap Harington Heap Harington Heap That's the new firm name Oh the other one's the old one Yeah Chris Heap's now Um but I I do think Scott we we need to do our best job between now
and town meeting right to have people understand why Yeah Oh yeah what we're trying to do with this bylaw Yeah I just I'm skeptical that we're ever going to get the bylaw language to alleviate the core concern is you know whatever word
we use or whatever processes and voting at the end of the day So I mean if we can great But I think some concerns and not you know for some and not for others but at least we will have really made an effort to do that and yeah and then it goes to the town to
decide Yeah And I think we should put together we should put forth a pretty even killed argument for the pros and the cons and just be straightforward Here's what the concerns are we've heard and you know just be transparent about it Okay So you'll have to we're going to
nominate you to write that one Well I do think though we it's it's an odd position right to if if we as a select board are very we we really want this to be approved and have
this become the a bylaw about the TA's authority Um it it's it's kind of an odd thing to then have that same body that's you know clearly supportive of it to then be also
offering the cons Um I think we can describe some some concerns that have been raised Yeah do it that way But I don't I don't think we're going to be hearing the objections on the floor anyway So I'd rather proactively speak to them Yeah I I I'm planning to do a
presentation I think I will be balanced in providing that information I think I think you've been honing it lately I mean I've Well I have been but it's I'm not going to get everyone to agree No I've already know that But I'm trying my
best to reach out and I've hear the the feedback Yep Which is important Yeah And I think acknowledging that's good And you're Look there's a certain section you're never going to convince So don't spend time doing that The middle group the you know the Caitlyn type group is
like "Yeah I understand." Right You're trying it It's hard Let's see if we can make this work Right I also think you may not be able to I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect bylaw that's gonna I think the inherent Right Yeah Yeah So I think honestly I actually
think it's going to be fine It just it's I'm I mean I'm sort of less concerned with the voters at large because I think most of them will get it and say this makes sense for the town we and we
have to work with these committees for we or our successors will be working with them for years that's kind of the more important piece to me is how that works when we do our presentation I also think it is important to hearken back to
the um governance committee report because yes that's very important you It wasn't our idea Did you have you read the governance i have Well you know because it could look like a you know gee those like who are just
grabbing power you know nothing to do It's late We're kind of on What else Ryan okay so next meeting you have to review the warrant You haven't touched and I don't think it would be very long but you still have to go through the consent agenda You still have to go through all the
CPC articles and then finish up any recommendations that you didn't do and talk about the fire station so far And is the is the current draft order the recommended order from you no Do is there a recommended order that you someone can provide us so we're not just
Yes he has So yeah Well I mean I can work with Wayne Oh yeah Yeah I mean Wayne Wayne has a general idea I think I think from a concept standpoint Yep The question is where does
the what is in the consent agenda which there's been a stamp at that Yep And we believe the town meeting committee and Wayne that we should be a little more aggressive with that and let people raise their hand if they want to exclude So that's fine And where should that go in the placement we've typically done it
first right maybe that's fine because it's quick Or maybe we want to bury it as like a intermission Let's say then I think generally the standard practice is a good one to get the finance stuff done because no
matter what we have you have to have it and you know what it's Sunday afternoon people are going to come they're going to have a sandwich they're going to be ready like they need to do that they have to go after you know all right fine but really we would like as much of the participants
to observe and vote on that in in our opinion so I think that kind of sets that and then the rest of it I'm not really sure I mean I would say the big picture the big the important things that maybe are less contentious like the
fire station police maybe some of those things should go because still got a lot of people and it won't be a forever dialogue There'll be some but it and then we have to think about these hourlong debates and do we want them at 4:00 when people are leaving or you know I mean that's a question I don't have an
answer but that's but we want to decide the order next two one goal is to decide the order next Tuesday right because we have to I would love to not start from scratch so there is a recommendation right well we're I can you know again I can ask we're meeting on Thursday okay
I'm also meeting Ashley and company Thursday You you're welcome if you want to show up and listen on that You mean to tomorrow thursday at day after tomorrow Today Thursday at 1:30 Thursday and it's Gretchen and me and Ashley It's
like mechanics but this is mechanics I guess I don't know It doesn't matter I think David I liked your approach what you just laid out I think that actually putting the the more contentious or like this one tonight where we had about the MBTA even though it's non-binding I
would almost put that last Yeah Because then people can hang people can hang around and maybe they're really excited about it and that'll be good Um Right You know you want the ones with the most interest at the end I I think so No I I
I think so and and the TA bylaw I think is going to generate a lot of discussion otherwise they leave they do that thing and then they that's it they're done well they may I mean part of the experiment is whether behavioral patterns are different yeah I I don't
think that how long are you planning what is the what's the goal right so the this goal schedule right now is 11:30 food truck and we still have some work to do to make sure that menus are known and there's not a pre-ordering because that turned out to be ridiculously
complicated But if people know their what they want to order and they get there and they order it's should we're told it's going to be reasonably quick and some child care options right and I think Rachel Levy is um volunteered to
do some kind of fundraising art thing So that's great Great Uh and um what we still have to work on is poster session during that time period Posters available in the calf So people could like meet with proponents of the
articles and discuss from like 11:30 to to 1 We need to start like absolutely So we're starting the meeting at 1 not at one No at one and Okay So you'd expect us to be there at 11:30 to be in the Yeah I think so Only because I have
other plan I have to plan I just No I I think so We haven't got that far but yes that would be a good idea Okay And then we're trying again to cut out as much of the parsley as we can Like here the exits you know like make that part quick
and then dive in So if if if one to three is the high participation window you know let's make sure we get it Yeah And then three to five you know there's going to be attrition right parents kids are if
we're going after a demographic that maybe is not as patient as the demographic we typically have then I think we could expect something Okay Well would you please do the draft then that order i will work with Wayne
It's really Yeah And then we'll look for that and we'll put it in our be ahead of time so we get it I'll talk to Wayne Yeah I would talk to I'm trying to finish my assignment here But if I heard you right we're we're potentially
we're trying to we potentially could go four hours is what you've got down right 1 to three three to five I think so because we got so many I I mean again one of the problems we were trying to solve was the 700 p.m start problem right
you're almost you know it's like these meetings right it's 10:15 I'm like I got to get home It's Monday right i got to get home So it's Tuesday No but I mean if you're If you're no at a town meeting I meant I meant metaphorically Right Right Right So So we're generally constrained to
threeish hours right we want to not be as constrained to three-ish hours but the right reality is it's still a Sunday afternoon and right you know people got a work week ahead and they just don't want to be there forever So I food truck still be there during intermission no I
think they I think they pack up Is there an intermission well people may come and go They'll leave the meeting I wouldn't be surprised They might Again this is all new This is kind of you know things because in the past when there's been a key item that people really care about
but it's later in the meeting you know people set up others well that was another you know it's interesting because I don't know if you guys were involved in this but that was another suggestion from I don't know if it was from another town or not to actually
handicap the you know actually put a an estimated time for each article so people could do that But Wayne really doesn't want to Conquer does that I think Okay Do they know so um Mary Lynn Mary Lynn just sent us
She thinks she is Hi Mary Lynn Hi Mary Lynn You're welcome to come on You want to time box no I think I found the language for Belmont Oh she's looking at it right now Yeah Wow But this is the one that was not uh
passed Not approved right but they amended it on the floor right two amendments and then it didn't pass and then it didn't pass after all that Could you um Yeah I can Marilyn would you send that to all of us i actually put it in the chat Oh you put it in the
Oh I'll read I'll read if you guys You guys want to spend a few more minutes or not yeah let's sir The town administrator shall appoint based on the merit and fitness all non-elected department heads of the town except and then they have the cardouts which are the ones we have Um uh Oh I'm sorry No I
I'm wrong Included in the carveouts besides the schools and the fire chief and so forth Um the uh town accountant the health director and employees of the health department and the directors and employees of P Belmont Public Library So
they actually did carve out but those were if my reading of what Cheryl sent us those two carveouts the library and the board of health or whatever they call them there were amendments that were added at town meeting Really the
original bylaw did not have those in and then amendments were made The amendments were adopted but then the vote on the whole thing did was not approved But but there's no is that all the language well it's a whole thing But but
I think what it doesn't do which we were hoping to get some words on the consultation was to give some mechanism for you know Yeah doesn't it just says the board of select and this tells you when it was the board of selecting and the town of Belmont shall appoint
town administrator to serve at the pleasure of the board blah blah blah Uh under the direction of the board the town administrator shall in the list of duties proper operation of town affairs etc etc supervise direct and be responsible for the efficient
administration of all departments and employees under jurisdiction under the jurisdiction of the board of so So it really didn't you know yeah that's and so forth So it really doesn't actually say that much It's one of many towns and it's Belmont
And so it would be helpful to to get some comparable and we always talk about what's comparable but you know a mix of the you know we know conquered but conquered everyone says well it's not comparable because you know they have a town manager but the town manager is
somewhat semantic There's nothing in state law that that differentiates manager versus administrator In fact the administrator language is from the state but some towns call them managers some call them executive officer of the town
So um but they've given everything in conquered to the town manager and the town manager even appoints the board of health the members of the board of health So you know that's not elected They also appoint uh well actually and they appoint the um planning board as
well Yes Yeah So it's a different model and that may not that's not in keepable but but if we were to look at you know some other smaller towns Lincoln Grten you know um Harvard Harvard yeah that are small towns with
town administrators that that um and Sherburn yeah is another good model Yeah Okay What was the bet you're going to buy drinks for the board if it goes
No I'd be happy to do that You want to go out now my last my last thing I'll take a check I do want to have drinks with you sometime Ideally there'd be a vote at the end to approve the warrant Yep Next week So I think if you're not ready to approve something you should
try to work through that before the meeting Yeah So that if the discussion is going to the point where it's going to require another meeting or something that you just say we're just not going to make a recommendation on this one and move on Then we can get the more and post it and then you then you can
schedule more Yeah Uh are we going to get anything in advance uh on the fire station yes Okay You get a presentation on Thursday or in your packet packet We're going to get a packet for day for the next Tuesday This Friday So we will have something in advance Okay because
that's the harder one to make a decision on And it would be great if we could get the TA bylaw then too I'm readying it right now Yeah bylaw The TA B is a good example Language isn't ready You don't doubting you won't recommend your own bylaw but we could you could just defer
a town meeting Yeah Yeah Yeah This artificial deadline is for posting Then it opens up another month for discussion Yeah Yeah Yeah Okay Okay We've done a lot tonight We've had a lot of input I'm actually really pleased because we don't always get this kind of feedback and I
think it's important So anything else Brian i agree Anything else from the board do I'll take a motion to adjurnn second All right All in favor i All right Good night everyone Good night