##VIDEO ID:ZEPMqcyywTk## to order the um sorry okay um the meeting of the select board for January 28th um we're going to start by going into executive session we will come out of executive session afterwards but I need to have a motion for the executive session we to mgl chapter 3A session 21 reason two to conduct strategy sessions in preparation for negotiations with non-union Personnel or to conduct collective bargaining sessions or contract negotiations with non-union Personnel move we move to Executive session second all right all in favor I I and note that everyone all five members are present all right we'll be back uh with 30 all right thank you I'd like to uh call to order again the uh select board meeting for January 28th uh in the Clark room at Town Hall um we just return from executive session and uh we have a full agenda for this evening um first I'd like to uh make sure we have a quorum it looks like all members are present um so we'll begin I just do a quick uh overview we have a um Comm Community input then we'll have appointments um and then we have a SD Road assessment access easement approval a vote on that then the youth commission revolving fund cap increase we're going to have Town administor report then Warren and minutes at 7 7:05 liaison reports and then at 710 um we have a hearing on the identical poll location petition for Verizon and then at 7:15 we're going to have fire station designer selection interviews where we're bringing in various candidates and that will go until the end of our meeting which will happen around 10 p.m. um so with that I would ask if there is community input we have a process for that where we would allow uh the community to talk on topics that we're going to have on the agenda or if there's something else you'd like to discuss related to town matters um I typically would provide two minutes per candid or per speaker um you will need to address the board and um tell us your name and your street address and um we will give you time is there anyone here who would like to speak on a as Community input anything is there anyone online who wants to speak all right any going once twice all right um seeing no public comment um we will move on to appointments we have uh going to make a motion you want two appointments sure if someone wants to make a motion on I move to appoint Matthew decastro of 45 craigy Circle and Ryan Lester at 161 Acton Street as members of the youth commission both terms to end June 30th 2027 second okay um is there any more information I know we had some information in our packet is the da have anything to add no okay um and they were recommended by the existing youth commission y yeah okay um so with that I'll take a uh Voice vote all in favor I I None opposed all right um and we have one more employee to appoint Jeremy Gagney to the position of driver laborer for the Department of Public Works we have an anticipated start date yet uh to be be determined after appointment to be determined after appointment second okay any further discussion or you will have some to input uh Jeremy's a strong candidate coming to us with construction and maintenance industry experience 10 plus years really wanted to break into the municipal World on the DPW side we had a good interview with Jeremy he's going to be one of our first people that were training on licensing to make sure they're ready for the next storm season so this one will be a training season for him but will allow ow us to have a better succession plan and test out our new uh new training program which we're pretty excited about that's great great good okay um well we've had a motion in a second I I'll do unless there's anything else do a Voice vote all in favor I I None opposed all right um moving right along gosh Ren estd Road access agreement approval well hello there would you please introduce yourself hello I'm Jonathan De 130 Oak Road okay I am here on behalf of the trails committee um for uh getting approval for the EST road trails easement or access easement um it's pretty straightforward I sent you a memo that should describe the details um basically it's uh it's an agreement with a property owner to allow access from a public Road in do R over to the green Old Land across his private way um there are no obligations the town is incurring in this but we are getting some rights um to allow the public to do this Crossing uh the trails committee has no plans to actually modify the trails at this time uh this was just a a crime of opportunity um we were an opportunity to establish this uh this easement and as we had previously had requests for access to Greeno from this particular uh property um or from this uh from from this neighborhood we thought it would be a good idea to go ahead and establish the legal right to do this in the future um so uh before I close I just wanted to call out some thank yous one is the property owner Mr Richard anise he had no obligation to do this but it was the right thing to do and he's a good guy so he just did it um it cost him a fair amount in legal fees to have his lawyer drop all the paper work so I hope the town is truly appreciative of this um second meline Blake was chair of the planning board she got the ball rolling to get this started and set up the initial framework of what would be granted without her this would not have been possible and lastly Julie Mercer the town planner was very instrumental in closing the deal and getting uh you know Town Council involved to actually finalize everything so special thanks to all those people maybe we should have a letter of thanks go from the board yeah great good well I moved to approve the of access Eastman over Esty road for the purpose of providing access by the general public and to and from contiguous town-owned land commonly referred to as the Greeno land second any questions from the board on this no no Jonathan thank you for your memo because it was really good background and helpful yeah perfect all right I'll take a Voice vote all in favor I I and none opposed great um do we have a document to sign oh yes yes I'll do it needs your actual signatur we want to make sure we get that um I'll get that for you by the way I don't know what the process is from here whether this has to go to town beating or if you just send it back to Town Council you guys will need to to do that out so we did confer with Council so this is the last step okay so once the select board signs it it is good to go it's good to go okay then I assume Town Council will bring it on to uh the registry of deeds correct all right thank you very much great thank you thanks Jonathan and thanks for all your work on it too oh no problem I'd say it was fun but it was torture No Good Deed makes a community garden look easy no not that no okay okay so I think we're having a presentation on the youth commission is that right yes Kelly I'm not putting you on the spot but um can you explain the situation for us please I am putting you on spot formal but I can definitely give you some background sure um so over the last year year and a half um the youth commission has kind of restructured how their revolving fund is functioning and it's been operating very successfully um they put on a Friday Night Live event usually one Friday the first Friday of every month um at the car Public Schools um for a number of students historically it used to be I believe Stephanie had said it was in the 50 range for attendance now they're up to 120 130 students wow um so because of that their revenue has significantly increased um but to offset that the expenses have increased you know the need has increased for some of their expenses as well um and with the incoming Revenue increasing if they can't spend up to you know their full capacity they're going to draw you know they're going to start generating a balance in the revolving fund which isn't you know the ideal way for a revolving fund to function um so the request right now is that their expenditure limit is $14,000 currently they're um we are asking for an increase to $20,000 so they can only spend up to that $20,000 um if the funding is there it's not setting a budget it's not you know granting them funds it's just granting them the ability to spend the funds that they're receiving for this event well it makes sense it's a good program and I'm glad to see that it's doing so well we just recently in fact I recall that we just rais it to the 14 so they they they're doing something right um so anyway I'm going to move to authorize the spending limit for the Youth commission revolving fund be increased at 20,000 for fiscal year 25 second should be noted the finance committee did review this and approved it as well last week and I just want to give a shout out to the um youth commission folks because um and well Kelly you're still on yeah and also um Kelly for working through what she referred to as uh some changes in the way they were doing their accounting and the relationship to the town hall and anyway it's it's really a good group and they've uh as you can see in the results they're doing a great job okay great all right well we've had a motion a second um we'll do a Voice vote all in favor I I None opposed thank you all very much you thank you Kelly um well we are uh ahead of schedule so well for once Brian doesn't have to race through his ta report well we can always fill the time I'm sure before we before we start with the the TA report the first interviewee today um submitted written comments and they did not uh they are not coming tonight so we have a gap in our schedule now I'm going to continue my ta report during that Gap we can we can obviously talk about the designer selection but I'd like to go over the town meeting warrant as part of my ta report as well to take advantage of that time just letting you know that's coming just so so I understand are we we're going to are you going to read their comments yes so we'll just allow some time for that yes okay and any excess time I'm going to okay use for ta report part two all right welcome to the TA report for for this week in terms of community outreach our next Town Administrator coffee hour will be February 4th that's next Tuesday 10 a.m. at ferns residents usually come and talk and discuss items we're encouraging any questions about the town budget the up town meeting and of course any other topics of interest auby and I are also planning to host an all chairs meeting in February the agenda will include updates on employee reviews especially for those departments that conduct their own reviews the FY 26 budget and the annual town meeting which is uh ever expanding I have a human resources update from Aubrey coming from all angles here so the answer your question is is Jeremy's first day will be Monday February 10th we appointed him tonight and we are interview for the public safety administrative assistant and the DPW mechanic positions currently for the FY 26 budget the finance committee completed their what they call their Marathon meetings and have now moved on to analyzing the outcomes of th those meetings and any new budget budgetary items so they are going to meet this week I'll be meeting with them and they're talking about what cuts would do in terms of services to the town and perhaps asking departments to come up with cut budgets in order to bring the tax impact down the overall impact of the budget to include some very bad news we got about health insurance this week indicates that uh it's over a 5% tax increase on the average tax bill which is which is well above your goal to reiterate the or to to talk about the health insurance increase we were told to expect anywhere from 9 to 19% with the average common wealth increase in Maya to be 14.5% and our adviser told us that we are on the the bad side of 14 A2 so it will be at least 15 or 16% because of a loss record or yeah a size or what Ryan that puts us on the wrong side of 14 and a half uh is our is our loss ratio so our experience is is not good it's starting to improve but we still have a couple years before we're out of that before we out of those woods so just another part of the budget cycle that we have to deal with the governor also put out her first draft of the budget called house one house one indicates that we will be getting a little bit more state aid than we projected but probably a total impact of about $20,000 this is mostly from the $75 a student that's in house one for minimum state aid increase to Chapter 70 everything else was pretty was pretty flat there was a 2.25% in unrestricted state aid I keep telling you that's not a great number for us state aid just uh state aid unrestricted in general that equates to about $6,000 more than last year so it's it's not much of an impact you're really getting more of an impact for your education and your Capital funding like chapter 90 which I will talk about in a second before you leave U Ryan um we on the health care side we budgeted five we preliminarily budgeted 5% and it's more like 14 that the budget projected 11% to include the 1% increase okay and it's probably going to be closer to 15 or 16 with what's that Delta in dollars about 70,000 okay thank you also strongly recommending the finance committee and the select board prioritize the capital side of the budget as well there there isn't a free cash to fund all the department enough free cash above your target reserves to fund all of the capital so there will be a prioritization with Capital planning this year and of course I continue to seek direction from the board and the finance committee about how to how to prioritize this Capital list and the finance committee I know is going to focus on it on Thursday lastly on the budget the cultural Council will be coming to your next meeting they are a of course select board creature by Statute they have asked for an incre or just an operating budget ask in general of 5700 the finance committee pushed this back to the select board and asked if the select board wants to entertaining adding this budget as their one of your advisory boards so they're going to come and and make their case to you so that you can weigh in on that part of the budget process for chapter 90 chapter 90 is what funds our road maintenance program the governor this year proposed an increase of chapter 90 up to $300 million for the last decade or so it's been 200 million and as you know we've been advocating for an increase to approximately this 300 million this would get rid of some of the stop Gap measures that have been helping us get to about 400,000 a year in Road Aid this will be more of a permanent increase if it passes this 300 million to an actual allocation of of 400,000 and we're all indications demonstrate that the rural funding Factor will be included which helps towns like Carlile so because of the vast amount of roads and the size of our population we we would make out in that formula so so please continue to push legislation to pass this $300 million increase this is UN universally pushed for across the Commonwealth so we do expect it to pass but of course they need to hear from us this would be in line with projections we had with chapter 90 but if you remember we projected the next two years at 400,000 because we thought this and then it dropped off this if they kept at 300 million a year would even that off at least for a little bit until inflation eats into that number Aubrey Gretchen Julian I attended the MMA annual conference rebranded as connect 351 the um there was many inspiring speakers it was great to learn from peers learned a lot about human Human Resources sustainability and of course the ongoing budget issues with many presentations about all the things we've been hearing on the school side of the budget and the challenges they're facing with special education funding one of the takeaways I had from it was they encouraged Municipal officials like you to play the game of now so instead of pushing things off uh addressing the major problems that are coming because there does not seem to be any EXP def side budget relief coming in the future so the idea of trying to solve the problems now before numbers continue to inflate is a topic that is being discussed across the across the state easier said than done I I was going to say what are we going to do poison the water so we have fewer kids in the school not something that I'm encouraging I mean you know how you what are they suggesting for you know okay whatever A administrative item here in the report so employees who multiple roles are required to disclose this to the select board we have one right now Steven Monroe our facilities technician who also has skills with a plow so he helps us plow he's occasionally helping the DPW with plowing due to employee shortages this won't be a permanent thing but it does help in a pinch he's fully licensed for this work and he's only again acting this capacity when it's approved by the DPW director so the select board should vote to accept this disclosure there is no contractual or ethical issues according to council for signing and approving this can I make that motion now now yeah I move to approve the Disclosure by Municipal Employee Steven Monroe of financial interest in a municipal contract as Exempted under Mass General Law chapter 268a section 20b second okay any discussion on it all in favor Voice vote I None opposed all right so that passes in this report is uh another administrative action the Green community final report I encourage you to read it Sarah put this together there's nothing significant to report it's just our annual requirement my report also includes the youth commission revolving cap increase which we've already address so I'll skip that for Capital project updates our comprehensive covert analysis is complete I'm reviewing the first draft now with the engineers and we will schedule with your chair a report from our Engineers on their findings in terms of our our Culvert maintenance plan for the next decade the elevator maintenance project construction documents have been finalized Steven canery and I are going to review these with our engineering firm and then bring the first draft or the first draft of the construction documents which has been a long time and a lot of discussions with the MFC we'll bring it to the MFC for their for their final approval the idea is to get this out to bid next month so we can have a firm number to bring to town meeting for the elevator maintenance projects you'll remember this is three projects across the town in the school the library and Town Hall all modernizations I was uh fortunate enough to travel around the town today with Jennifer gagy for Meals on Wheels and we did stop at Benfield I was able to look at the new Ada door entrance so it is working it's almost complete the only thing that hasn't been done yet is the fobs have not been passed out to the residents so unfortunately they thought I was there to do that so there's a little bit of excitement but we will get that done in the next week and the residents are are pretty excited about having this completed can I ask you a question on that um so this was the fob for the entrance the new entrance Door yes and where are we on the other part of that CPA Grant which was to do the um access to their Apartments using a fob as well so the guidance we have was to focus on the exterior doors and then re-evaluate the funding so we just want to make sure there's enough funding to complete the interior of the project spoiler alert we're not sure there is so we'll have to bring that back really dang okay okay and I think I'd mentioned to the board that Ryan and I met with uh the I already talked about that met with pfield yeah we met with the um Noah Noah and uh Phil Phil Phil who are the representatives of Benfield and basically asked them to U provide us any additional information on their budgets and if they were going to need additional support from the town but they seem to indicate that they were in pretty good shape at this point and um I made the point that I I just just didn't think that the town is as inclined to support this individually as a project going forward but uh you know I I just kind of conveyed that they'd be in better shape if they would finally finish their final report to kcom for the and they've only got another month right yeah right um just anecdotally because I there are a couple of women in the chorus that are from Benfield and then I know someone else that lives there they're not keeping up with maintenance like the the second floor meeting room still leagues because there was a group in there um and had to move because it was leaking during that last rain so it is going to come back to us yeah that's the issue right yep all right updates on your building construction projects the library renovation we are are going to finalize the OPM contract with CMS this week still negotiating with Schwarz silver on the design contract once Contracting is completed assuming we don't have to go out to bid for design the design of the construction documents will take 6 months to complete and then we would enter bidding phase which is a couple months and then actual construction phase is several months as well about six so with any luck the library renovation project will begin in the spring anyone looking to support the capital campaign for the library can continue to donate at their website hope them get across the Finish Line with some final costs police station renovation TBA is finalizing their construction documents they said they'll have them done by February 7th we forwarded them front-end documents for bidding today and Sarah is coordinating with the design team to ensure the energy efficient upgrades are cost neutral through the rebate eligible program that should help defer some of the costs of the upgrades especially the heat pumps on on uh the exterior which was a talking point do you have any sense of um how much more they may need and what's been allocated approved so we will bid it starting just after the 7th it'll be advertised and we will know by the end of March okay where we're at yeah okay and then that'll become probably a talking point for you in April the DPW building is still being reviewed by the MFC I've asked them to update the select board on a timeline for for bringing this presentation to you it's still it's still on track for late February early March but uh they wanted it to review it again so they want to make sure their presentation to you is sound and capable of handling your questions and concerns about the DPW potential designs for upcoming topics that the board will be considering first a very interesting one the town flag so Scott Evans is coordinating the creation of carlile's first town flag or first official Town flag a ceremony is being scheduled for February 15th which is a Sunday and then plans are in the works to bring this flag to the state house for a display car is one of the few towns that doesn't have one at the state house so we're remedying that we're not we Scott is remedying that and I going to stand there with him in a picture hopefully a version suitable I've asked that one be uh created if possible and this is a big ask and they take a lot of time but one for Town Hall which would fly with the American flag and the Commonwealth's flag terms of the community garden manager we'll be discussing this unfortunately the community Lost Jack o' Conor who's been handling the fal farm community garden for a while he obviously leaves a legacy and a ton of work behind the select board in coordination with the Conservation Commission has as been asked to start working on appointing a a successor it's a significant volunteer job and you want to get that one right because the fost farm community gardens is one of the most popular offerings we have in town There's also two elected vacancies you you'll be discussing the school committee vacancy and a recent vacancy on the board of assessors so Karen did enter a letter of resignation we started advertising for the board of assessor position both of those need to be voted in in joint jointly with you in order to fill them lastly the cemetery commission task force report is complete and they are ready to present to you in February this will include timelines for expansion Capital Improvements and workflow recommendations that I think you'll find very interesting there's a slew of approvals for signs banners and land use in this report for you to review and then I want to recognize some staff of course so our staff and volunteers proudly seek alternative funding sources for Town Projects helping defer tax impacts through grants and other funding options a recent example includes the Wilkins HVAC repairs this was a $27,000 project plus 22,000 in design that town meeting invested in in order to correct some building maintenance issues and offer cleaner technology at the school thanks to the diligent work of Steven Kerney and the MFC Carl receive an eny rebate of 117,000 so more than half the cost and nice job yeah that great great so this Revenue also helps fund future Capital becomes free cash so these types of rebates help help prove the staff's commitment and promis as a town meeting that we will seek all of these alternate funding sources when we propose these things at town meeting additionally Chief Soros who's staring at me right now now and the fire department received a $15,500 fire fighter safety Grant uh Chief Soros and his team continue to look for ways to offset their equipment and training costs seeking annual monetary awards that reduce Town tax impacts we're appreciative of this effort and happy to report that the department will put this grant to use for their capital and training needs thank you o my report also includes a draft Agenda One thing in that though I think it was in there um that noted that you get that funding com if as long as we're compliant well so that's what they can I yes please do but introduce yourself why don't you come up here so the folks on Zoom can hear you too I mean I think this is worthwhile for you to hear because of going to be the world going forward so um this is something I applied for many months ago and the no the notice fing opportunity the noo mentioned nothing about that um uh about four days before they were going to Grant it all of a sudden they said oh we're changing our our notice of funding opportunity to say that you have to promise that you're going to meet the the uh MBTA o stuff and um a lot of chiefs got very excited about that um and part of that is not just that will you or want you but we don't know right how can you promise what your town is going to do in a town meeting Etc yeah so they finally um like hours before releasing it relented on that with a note saying next time so just to know what that's coming up for Grants we're going for in the future okay thank you do a pinky promise I guess yeah really right sorry great job Chief besides the draft agenda that is my report please so the select Port outline five primary goals for this project and I'm going to shorten them a little bit cuz you've read them already but it's to attract and retain call Firefighters providing temporary living and working space meeting safety standards ensuring gender Equity maximizing existing space and only adding new space cost effectively when necessary and prioritizing costeffective building materials to lower that overall cost uh over aesthetic design which is something we've talked about a lot additionally carile is a climate leader community and expects a high level stainability and they want to do all of this while adhering to a $10 million budget so why are you the right firm to part partner with carile in this project it's a phenomenal question and actually a great set of six questions um but but they all lead to one really important thing and that's really getting down to the goals and values that this community holds near and dear as it relates to this project and I think it's really important and I want to touch on each one of those components in particular um temporary living and working spaces especially in a volunteer f organization is something that's becoming more and more popular especially as a recruitment and retention tool it allows your firefighters the ability to to run Duty shifts to to be there at at the station especially when they're coming from from out of town or or or or when they're a little bit further away it really allows them to help serve the community um especially during during times of duress or or issues you know health and safety standards for fire fire stations you know it wasn't like this 20 30 40 50 years ago right these these were these were basically large garages and that's no longer the case especially post 9911 we understand the health and safety impacts that these facilities have on the firefighters health safety and wellness and making sure we're designing to NFPA standards and and and that there's not one hard and fast rule about exactly how this needs to be done but creating those hot cold Zone separations to the department to make make sure that when they're coming back from a call they're properly Decon getting into clean gear keeping all the dirty stuff on the dirty side of the bays and allowing the clean sides of the building to be really safe and that's really critically important but there's a number of ways we can do that cost effectively there's not a one- siiz fits-all solution for that ensuring gender Equity there's a number of ways we can do that within your fire station um one really easy way is not using not creating large multi-g restrooms right if we non-gender the restrooms the locker the showers things like that create them kind of like they are in your house where you've got a a bathroom shower sink in one spot it allows you to not say we're gonna have three of these for male one for female and then as your gender ratio shifts over time now what do you do right so if we make them non-gendered right off the get-go it allows you to be more efficient and effective in that and reduce the amount that you have but also if you have a locker room in your facility right we can build in flexibility and that's what that diagram up on the top right is showing we can build in flexibility so that we can plan for what you have on staff today but create a sort of a dummy wall in in that locker room so that as the gender ratio changes it's really inexpensive for you to shift that wall over increase the size of the female locker room reduce the size of the male uh maximizing the use of existing space um example up there we have is uh the wilham fire department um that was a renovation Edition where the original building was sort of a horseshoe and we infilled uh with some apparatus bays and were able to maintain their operations through a majority of that construction project um at the time um we ended up doing that for about the cost of of of a new ladder so that that's about the funding that they had and we were able to get them what they needed to to do there so understanding what your existing station has the asset the usability that it would have now and then building on that for your future uh um addition is really is going to be really important and a cost effective way to use that um prioritizing cost effective building materials you know this this really comes down to showing you what the options are bringing you decision information right it's not just saying let's make it brick because brick is going to be the longest lasting lowest maintenance material but what are The Upfront costs for a number of different options what do they look like and what's the life cycle impact of that going to be on the building right not just understanding what today's cost is but the overall life cycle of it and bringing you those options and saying it can be any one of these let's think about what's the most cost- effective way that we can address the building with that um and then you mentioned the sustainability being a climate leader Community we've worked with a number of those throughout the Commonwealth um so we really understand what goes into making a a net zero building or or one that reduces the amount of fossil fuel use we've done that at a number of different fire stations in particular we've got Lexington fire here up up on the screen um that we actually uh used electric heat pumps in that building to to heat the um radiant flooring system in their apparatus phase that was the first time that had ever been done in the world so we've we've explored and implemented really Advanced sustainable features within our buildings but it's really about aligning those values with the budget and with your sustainability committee to get those two groups you know get those two pieces talking to each other to make sure that it's really what's appropriate for Carlile not just what's the most sustainable option that we can put at any cost so what that really comes down to is identifying goals and goals and values and and that's what we're starting to do with these six points but it's bringing you the options showing you that it's not just here's the plan this is what we we're recommending to the town of Carlile it's these are a number of different ways that we can meet your goals let's work together to find out what the most appropriate solution is based on what the cost implication is going to be upfront and long term and all all of those components really generate that decision ready information that the selectboard what you folks are really going to want to know when you're going to recommend this to be funded by the by by the taxpayers great any followups to question one from the board great we're going to move on to question two so question two talks about programming and we sent these ahead of ahead of time as I as I've mentioned before so what the select board is looking for is a partner to help them understand and balance programming needs so meeting a highly respected fire chief's recommendations will also balancing the need to limit the tax impact to the town and we know that comes with space so how will you assist the select board in properly vetting the programming needs of a small on call fire department and then how you present this recommendation effectively to the community to build support for the design great um so we did kind of see a correlation between question two and question three so we'll stop but the examples that I'm going to reference in question two really do also apply to question three um so talking about programming um and you talk about kind of we need to sit down with all of those key stakeholders and understand the needs the fire department being kind of that primary User Group um so we first start out with okay what are the needs what are the space needs we want to really get into the operational functions of the department so we can understand kind of every Department functions differently we really want to get into the details so that every size recommendation every space recommendation recommendation has the backup of all of those individual room requirements so it's not like we start with a set of square footages and we just kind of universally apply those we want to really get into what size equipment do you have what equipment are we maintaining what new equipment are we looking for are there any operational challenges um we we found through research that majority of injuries firefighting injuries actually happen within the station due to operational safety moving around the Bays versus on the fire scene so we really want to dive into kind of how are you approaching the site how are the volunteers arriving what are their kind of first second third stops and how are they safely getting off site um so we're really focused on that response time but really focused on safety um but we really want to balance what are the needs what are the wants and what are the budgets we start talking about that day one we'll reference that again kind of when we talk about schedule and how we get to you to a Maytown funding um is we really want to understand what those rough order magnitude costs are kind of the minute we start putting space on paper um once we kind of have all of those spaces listed out we take kind of a second and third pass looking for ways to optimize and plan so from an optimization standpoint we want to give you the most usable functional operationally supported square footage we don't want to waste square footage on Corridor space or kind of how we're kind of inter having all of our spaces interact or a design element we want to maximize usable square footage so sometimes there's ways where we can implement or embed program into circulation space so we already have a corridor there we already need that transition zone how can we build space into that area that's already required to circulate so again maximizing that usable area and then Matt talked about ways that we can build in flexibility without overbuilding today the Department's going to change over time The Rao the gender ratios are going to change the services that are necessary are going to change how can we provide some flexibility without building too much into the future so that you're paying for it today so we kind of have that flexibility and adaptability kind of built into the program so we want to ensure that team Buy in um and we kind of view this as a living document so we continue to edit it um and these are two examples where we did this in hamen and then I'm also going to talk about um Weston and then subsequently mson so in hen um we came across this project where they had actually already done the programmatic work with a different firm um and they asked us to really validate the programmatic needs um so we were looking at this for the fresh fresh set of eyes um we met with the fire department and we really dove into what their priorities were um and I'll talk about this prioritization exercise which really aligns with the values and the goals that you've already set in place is what is most important to them if I could solve one thing with a renovation or addition what would it be what it be to improve the the safety and the operational um kind of the safety and health uh layout of building would it be living accommodations would it be training accommodations what would be those major goals that you want us to accomplish and let's prioritize those um it comes in handy when we're looking through when we're looking at ways to balance Community goals Department goals and budgetary constraints so we kind of weigh all of those pieces and parts together um so we did this presentation we met with the fire department first we talked about what they have we talked about what we know and we used this as a way to educate the community as well and as well as a way to vet the program um you know what is driving this request um is it just to kind of house a piece of equipment are we trying to get something out of the apparatus Bay to give you more kind of operational space around the vehicles what is that driver behind the ask and that allowed us to effectively communicate to the select board why that program was the size it was and why it was included um we also included kind of virtual components to the community sessions where we asked them to prioritize the same things that the fire department did so we could find alignment um ironically the top three priorities for Bay capacity training and development and firefighter Health they aligned across the board from a department from a selectboard and from a community so it was a really great way for us to build kind of consensus and those were the top priorities that we need to meet with the project and then ultimately translated into multiple options in Weston we did a similar exercise they're actually looking at two stations um and one being a new construction and one being a renovation and in this case they're also specialized en code climate leader community so understanding kind of the the individual requirements of that energy code and how it applies to new construction versus renovation um and kind of how we can rightsize those options but to Matt's Point bringing all that decision ready information to the table so that you understand the potential operational impact or design impact the potential cost impact and then you can kind of make um an educated decision on the pros and cons of each of those so this was a chart where we actually went through our space needs document um which just had a list of of room names there's a a much longer document that has all the descriptions but we Associated a driver behind every space requirement and then we also Associated collocation requirements where if we move this piece it's tied directly to this piece um so that the select board and the working group could start really making educated decisions on where they could push and pull the program to kind of rightsize that and make sure it was the most efficient and the most effective and then ultimately they ended up having a few different options they instead of going to kind of a two new station solution they had a renovation only and kind of a larger headquarters because it resulted in a more efficient use of program and less duplication between the two and that was as a result of kind of that vetting of the program and kind of diving a little deeper on the why behind each of those pieces I just ask a quick question when you say there's a driver behind each one of those what what's an example of a driver this sure so a driver really does align with some of those priorities and goals um so for example um when we talked about training um we had every piece of component they wanted to integrate a mezzanine they wanted to integrate um a training classroom style training um so we needed to kind of confirm and verify that the driver behind those spaces and the space allocated to each of those was a training requirement so the training room was sized to allow for them to bring in outside agencies to do classroom style training then with the in kind of in practice training right included into the project so the mezzanine and that training classroom are kind of tied in together and then we had to talk about why the training room was the size it was and kind of how we can size that training room to meet the same need so this statement of need was we need a 25 person training room well we can do multiple aisles we can do something that's more efficient we can do something that's flexible so there's a lot of different ways that we can still meet the driver behind the ask but the size of the space can change and that's what we kind of went through with the select board and with that working group so that we could kind of rightsize each of those pieces of program thank than you any followup questions all right you did touch on three a little bit but I did want to emphasize some points so the the select board has talked about not wanting to win any architectural Awards with this design preferring a uh coste effective and goals-based program and building that might include value engineering creatively designing an Annex or using alternative construction methods such as modular so what experience you have with these cost saving strategies and can you describe your work with any of them sure Rebecca you want to touch on mson a little bit sure um so we did I kind of I alluded to kind of doing that same cost savings exercise in Hampton and in Washton um and uh mson is a unique example where we went through a pretty traditional feasibility study with them where we met with the fire department we created a statement of need and ultimately came back with two projects one was an addition renovation to their existing building which is on a shared Municipal campus and one was a new conr construction on a vacant site in town um both of which were upwards of 16 I think 167 million and the select board and kind of receiving those options were like these are not viable they are just they are too high we cannot go to the taxpayers with projects of this magnitude you know what can we do from here um so we entered into a similar prioritization exercise and this is a volunteer department um with some full-time but mostly volunteer so we brought in the entire volunteer group and we had multiple sessions with them and kind of wanted to hear all of their opinions on kind of what was most important so we went through that same prioritization exercise that I mentioned um and we ultimately created a list of options and I think there was more than this but I think there was a dozen options and essentially with each one we talked about um the design the total square footage the estimated cost for that work the potential lifespan and when I Ed the word lifespan we delineated between the different between operational lifespan and building lifespan we can build a building that will last you 25 years 30 years 50 years but it may not operationally support your department if we're just fixing the major issues with the exterior of the building for example it's not doing it's not providing any new programming space so in this example we had all of these different options and we were saying okay in option b it's a single story Edition it meets five of the nine priorities that you've identified so we can meet those top five but we can't can't accommodate the additional living quarters or some of those lower hanging you know some of those uh lower priority items but it's really going to only operationally support your department probably for the next 10 years will the building last 50 years absolutely but it may not support all of the different service requirements all the different department needs that the department has identified as part of that programming exercise so what this did for the select board is it kind and the finance committee and we did a few joint sessions with them um and they kind of invited some of those other specialty communities to kind of hear what these options allowed for um and that really created a great conversation about the balance between what our goals are what our budget constraints are what are our sustainability objectives what can we afford today but you know maybe we can't afford it today but we can plan for it in the future so maybe we can't go all electric but the building's convertible so it allows for that so we kind of really talk through all of the ins and outs of each option um and this kind of creat created a way for them to have a project that moved forward ultimately they selected kind of like option e which was um and then that even kind of got right size So currently we are about to bid this project but it's a small addition to their existing fire station we did allow for one extra Bay because their bays are under sized so that gives them flexibility to house more currently sized apparatus um but we were really trying to rightsize the solution so that they could get a facility that supported kind of their needs um but we kind of kind of gave the select board all of the different positives and negatives of each of those options um and this was another one where we were we were a little bit more lean and intentional it is operationally and functionally driven the exterior finishes are simple we are very um even just the heights of the the the wood framing we were using we wanted them to be able to you know bite off the shelf how can we kind of really minimize any additive cost so that we're giving them the most square footage that they can kind of get the biggest thing for their book and what's what's great about something like this is is is the graphic on the right you know there's an enormous amount of data that goes behind an infographic like that but it really simplifies all that data down into a simple infographic that everybody that doesn't speak architect or speak fire station you know fire talk can see that and understand exactly what the impact is going to be for each option where the goals and values align with what they're looking for in the community in their department and and effectively just take a look at the menu there and and sort of pick what what fits best for the community can I ask how long part one and part two took in this case well part one um it was a pretty traditional study duration they weren't working towards a funding request so I I would say maybe that took four to six months um then they kind of paused because they just didn't really know what to do um they did want to investigate that kind of open sight and then part two probably took I don't know another few months um they kind of just did another portion of their study and then ultimately approved us at the following town meeting to move forward with full Project funding so they kind of parsed it out but I don't want to jump questions but you know I think part of what like this is the exact type of thing that we're looking to evaluate to determine for our sure a Springtown meeting um what the ask would be to so we have to you know provide at least sense to the community so I'm you know it's it's trying to figure out get the right information and the right analysis done but also in an aggressive time frame so that's what's going on in the back of my head absolutely is that achievable yeah I mean these options can be generated very quickly I mean this was a little bit more of an in-depth study where we had floor plans and designs that went with each of these but even if we just took programmatic elements we could do square footage calculations and give you that you know what priorities we're meeting um so something like this is absolutely achievable um we've just got to make sure that we kind of frontload all of those kind of those really critical conversations with all the stakeholders up front so we're Gathering all that information quickly um and we did study pre-fabrication options pre-engineered options as a part of this um it was a question that came up it comes up commonly in communities you know what is the return on that investment what does that look like um so we can talk about kind of what the code requirements are kind of where the you know where the kind of the nuances are where the flexibility lies um and kind of where you may see additive costs or you lose that cost efficiency um so we can speak to that as well that was another option that they explored in this example okay we have about five minutes five minutes to go here and this has been a rich discussion so thank you I'm going to combine the next two questions and they relate to you so what is the Staffing the committed Staffing for this project the board wants to know who they're going to work with and then what is your availability right now to meet um as Scott already talked about some of these aggressive time frames so um so I'll be I'll be the primary primary point of contact for the project um Rebecca will will be sort of partnering with me in that we know trying to achieve a Springtown meeting with this project it's a very tight time frame we feel that having two project managers taking different components of this project and working together to achieve that goal is going to be critically important along with Tyler as your designer working through all those different options to really to really help test that and then Jeff will be sort of driving the the programmatic space needs component of that piece all of us will will or at least three of us will be in the room for the space needs assessment interviews and things like that we feel like it's really important to have everybody's point of view everybody listening taking notes so that we're not missing anything we're not missing the conversations that are going on so so this is your primary team along with Jeff and you'll and you'll see all of us throughout the project and and I'll be your primary point of contact in terms of uh availability um currently our team has four Public Safety projects in the study phase uh one that's in construction documents it's getting ready to bid and three in construction um one large project uh just is is in bid right now um we had eight members of our team dedicated to the production effort on that two of them will be working in construction Administration so the rest of the team is immediately available as of this week to start working on this project in addition to that uh the public safety Market is about a third of our firm's Market but we're a company of over 50 employees strictly working on architecture and interior design um our education Market is our large largest market right now and we're seeing that market soften so we actually have more availability a deeper bench beyond the public safety team ready to jump in and assist on that as well and that includes experts in community outreach and engagement um within our company so uh a lot of folks ready to ready and willing to work with you guys on day one any follow-up questions yeah I how big is the public safety team though uh our our Public Safety team is 12 dedicated employees um it it it grows from there uh when we when we have more work um but it it's it's it's a minimum of 12 dedicated employees okay thank you um with many of the goals that we've discussed there is the potential for some Conflict Management in this project and this is a very nice town I I don't think it'd be overly overly aggressive but how does your firm approach disagreements on design so specifically helping the town navigate these um needs versus wants versus demands right sure how do you how do you work through that how do you help the all the parties to create a design that's going to have a unified front at a town meeting yeah and and and I think it's it's really critically important especially when you're dealing with um a tight budget and a tight schedule and some Advanced sustainability requirements that sometimes get in the way of each other so I think what's most important in in what we tend to see the most successful process going forward with a lot of these projects in these communities is making sure that we have early and comprehensive stakeholder engagement so we don't find Value in going through the space needs the conceptual design and coming together with a whole package and then taking the show on the road and sort of marketing that to the rest of the boards and committees and saying does this work for you guys how do you feel that we should improve on this we feel it's more more appropriate to sit down with them in a pre-design phase and say what are your values what are you looking to get out of the project how can we find that alignment that Rebecca was talking about on some of those other values so if we start immediately talking to those stakeholders and engaging them and understanding what their wants and needs and values are as they relate to this project we'll actually start to see some of that some of that headbut and some of that some of that conflict um sort of sort of soften early on in the project having said that there's always going to be conflict there's always going to be things that that a sustainability committee is going to want uh that may not align with the budget or that a planning board is going to want or a Conservation Commission is going to want that may not align with with the immediate goals of the project or may or may increase the budget right so it's aligning all of those different different voices bringing them together and showing you what the impacts are going to be with all these things where not one to say if you come at us with a with an idea and say I think this design isn't isn't any good I think you need to do something else if one Committee Member board member says something like that we're not going to say that's a bad idea we're going to test it and then we're going to come back and show you why it did or didn't work right because because every idea has validity every every comment that somebody makes in a public meeting has validity it needs to be addressed you want to talk a little bit about how we how we address that through the design process sure um so honestly I think it's it's pretty simple the best way to manage um conflict is to make sure everyone involved in the project all stakeholders are informed on every decision that happens throughout the project not just the decision but the how we got to the decision the reason behind every decision so that way when there's a conflict that comes up everyone can look back and think okay yes we reviewed this already we went through it we decided that this was the best solution for our project and our specific situation um and uh and so that way it limits that back and forth everyone knows reasons why we're making certain decisions just a quick example on this and and this is an example that that spans two different communities um one being U Lexington when we did that F their their fire station right we did the fire station and then subsequently did the police station both of them within the historic district um the Paul Riv Road right behind you know the the Maman Trail is right behind the fire station site so extremely historic also very stringent sustainability requirements within that community and through the understanding of that process and bringing them all together early on in the process we actually got them together and said let's have me joint shet meetings with the sustainability commission with community members and with the historic districts commission that way they could come together talk about their values their issues their concerns and we can then incorporate all those into the project and really smooth out that process rather than go to one committee one board here one there and everybody's pointing fingers across across Zoom we were able to build consensus really really early on by making sure that they were all engaged and working together we did the same thing in peid with their with their police station um it was in a pretty sensitive area because we're right across the street from their Middle School uh and and it's it's it's it's on a it's on a rock site we had to do blasting right across in the middle school so there was a lot of challenges and we said you know what let's hold Community conversations at the middle school in the auditorium make sure that the stakeholders that are most critically impacted by this project are the voices that we're listening to the most we had three Community conversations every single Community every single um comment that was made by the community at the subsequent meeting we addressed one of the community members of the third said I've come to all three of your community presentations and I'm really impressed that you change the design in response to the feedback you received that's a great way to build community support on your project because they're being heard everybody's being listened to and what they're saying Val is valued and matters to the project process and that helps resolve those conflicts before they even come up all right great um 30 seconds for this last one you have 90 days if we sign a contract tomorrow to get this um schematic design and reasonable cost assment in front of town meeting is that possible absolutely and and the way we do that is is sort of what we what we've been saying all along and that's it's bringing everybody together from the get-go you're going to have your first rough order of magnitude total project cost the week after we're done with the space needs assessment we can we can generate pretty solid numbers that'll get you a good understanding of around where this is going to be as a gut check before we start designing it so we can say all right just based on the program based on the wants and needs of the fire department we're over budget we're right on target we're below let's start value engineering immediately before we start putting lines on paper the earlier we do that value engineering the less costly it's going to be and the quicker we can get to a Springtown meeting with with a solid plan that really aligns with what the department needs and what the town's budget is going to be so I think it's having those conversations immediately early and often and and again engaging with all these stakeholders so you know we we anticipate that you know within a couple of weeks of signing a contract you're going to understand where the cost is going to be based on based on the space needs of the department and and then we'll take that once we have that alignment uh again with the community's goals and visions and in the other boards and committees that information will be front-loaded into the conceptual design so then when the design is settled there's a better there's a better chance that it's going to be accepted by the community um and ready for town meeting so I I think you guys had a pretty good plan outlined in your in the in the bullets that you had listed with this question I think the only thing that I would really change with that process is community engagement in education starts today it doesn't start at the end of conceptual design we don't want to get to town meeting and somebody to to to raise their hand and say this is the first time I've heard about this they should have heard about this many many times ahead of that town meeting to make sure that when we're we're presenting the project to the community to be funded everybody's already on board all right I'm going to hold you that because we always get that question so thank you so much um we're gonna head into deliberation it's a public meeting so you can stay but it'd be real weird so nice to meet everybody if anyone want thank you so much pleasure and thank you so much it's it was it's a great honor to be here tonight and and I wish you guys all the best and all the luck with this project drive back to thank you thank you very much you you guys have to drive back to Harford yeah that's not a big deal though all the time we're we're doing the municipal master plan in Westfield West oh sure right next door and back all the time you know you might stay in the bunk room right in the new Firehouse yeah if we only did projects that were within 20 minutes of where we live we'd be run out of work yeah yeah part of the business thanks man thanks much you all right so to the select board to kind of go through this I was going to suggest we start with our Consultants um ask for some input um I think we could then kind of deliberate a bit but I don't want to come to a consensus because if there is time I'd like to I know there's some community members and I would give them maybe an opportunity to uh you know express some input or questions that maybe we hadn't thought about but not extensive time so um and as part of that having our fire chief and Lieutenant um so Neil if you wanted to kick us off tell us um what what did you learn from this and what what do you think um it learned that when you find out you have a negative reference halfway through the interview it's like hitting a brick wall that's one thing I learned um I felt like were smacked groups that really are driven by process um and I think I think that was very evident in in the presentation that we saw the beginning of the presentation we saw from galante as well as from tekon um I felt like or and I can say that it's been my experience that um tekon really values uh the why they really un they really have a a great ability to understand why decisions are made and do a very good job in documenting them so that in terms of History it's very easy to go back and revisit decisions and make sure that we have an understanding of what the context was when that decision was made and in what um how that affected the overall design frame um in terms of Consultants I think the three firms that we saw tonight the Consultants were pretty much equivalent across the board um I was a little bit surprised that um tgas invited the Consultants to come because it was sort of not well I don't want to say it was discouraged but it was not required um and I and I didn't think they really had a window of opportunity to really add much to the presentation um but that said it it was almost the same Consultant Group that we would see from any of the uh three firms that showed tonight I would say you know I mean one guy came from conquer so it's sort of a no-brainer um the CES was me is going to be a huge part I guess if I were in their shoes like you don't really know if an me question comes out in the discussion I guess it's nice to have sure the MP expert she's willing to show up yep yeah well um uh I'm trying to think of what else stood out um you know again I I think that understanding sort of building the process they they all three firms I thought did a very good job of uh echoing the importance of the program which is something that we spoke about during our interview it's really the foundation and the fundament mental process to to rightsize the project for you and for your folks again um I felt like I felt like tekon really did a good job of uh explaining their presentation of multiple options to get you across the Finish Line um other firms didn't do that for whatever reason it was more or less sort of One-Stop shopping and can I challenge that cuz I thought w say would surprise me I guess of the three I was the most surprised compared with the written presentation their process seemed to be iterate design iterate design iterate design to get to the price point I mean that's a different way of saying the same thing that Rebecca said I mean it's not about the why they didn't articulate that but they seem to like we're going to run it to ground till we get to a price point that you like that is a process it it is um but I think sometimes in that process the why gets lost and I and I think that you can lose your way pretty quickly on a project if you're solely looking at numbers well you're making trades I mean it's not an esoteric argument right we will be challenged to meet their needs inside of $10 million bucks yep I definitely liked I think Tas the pie chart like that chart that's says hey yeah here's your basic building it's going to cost you you know 6 million bucks to fix that however you do it it's going to cost you 6 million and that leaves you you know 4 million or whatever I think I Mis misquoted the numbers but anyway you know that's right away like setting a marker and I mean I've been through this myself and many people probably here have been you've got a budget and you got to make trades and and you could lose sight but I would think you'd say okay how important is an exercise room to you guys is it as important as this other thing because this is the cost rate that's still getting at the why I mean I I don't know I just want to no I okay difference of perspective you get to vote I don't I just share my opin you five stations have but I would like to add to that um I think you're very right in that Architects do and iter iterate process uh to achieve the final numbers um but it's how they go about it uh some Architects might walk away from a meeting and go work amongst themselves cutting square footage or doing something right and coming back with a new design that costs less yeah what I took from especially the tekon uh presentation was they involve the community and yes they may require several iterations but they're getting the the ground swell uh information and factoring in into those iterations okay fair enough thank you does the fire department want to kind of offer any thoughts no I think it was uh clear who had come and seeing what we have and what we're looking for versus those that hadn't so come did you think teas didn't show cuz they were the only ones that didn't come to the walkthrough right yeah that's clear I mean that last chart was a useful chart it doesn't reflect what we're what we're doing which is fine not a fine right just means that it just it was clear that they didn't understand really the project that we're going to do you mean bying the building on the back end like but he said he didn't know where it goes He but also that we're going to do extensive renovation of our building I don't think we're talking about putting much of anything into the current building if we're going to do anything that we want to do in the back they would have known that if they would have walked through yeah they didn't that's fine fair enough not not a big problem but it was clear that they didn't understand that um I on a personal level I think I was impressed with the tectron that they um have a process that um I think the why is a good good idea of that they will be listening and they'll have a reason why they're coming up with what they have and um you know the the you have all these choices and they fill these kinds of needs is a really good approach for how to make a decision and you can choose any one of these but these these handle this and these don't and they cost these kinds of numbers those that seems to be a really nice way to make decisions and um and I thought part of it is the way that they presented things effect was good I think I forget which one of the yeah I didn't like the way they presented things I think to an architect made sense where you were bouncing around they could figure out where they were in presentation whatever I mean to an architect that makes sense but I think we need to to understand how we're going to present this to a to to the public and to me I didn't think that presented well was very artsy right and and too cute for whatever you know no it just was not an effective presentation and while they were doing it I'm thinking Bo you put these guys in front of town meeting really NOP that I had a bit about that as well yeah um I was really we did not coordinate on this at all by the way um we haven't even talked about the materials but I was really impressed with techon te tekon I think that for me it looked like a lot of the magic of this project for Carlile is in the the program and in the um um I guess marketing you know phase yeah with the town and I definitely felt the most comfortable with them I think once we get to the construction documents then I mean I think they're you know they'll be probably off and running um I I like their I I look through their materials pretty carefully over the weekend I like their the projects I think they had Greenfield mson they had another project that they were they were they did it like an addition with a um with a renovation type of a thing and I didn't hear I don't think heard anyone else talk about an addition and maybe I'm wrong but I think all I think all the other ones were new construction and I get new construction I mean we can find someone to do $1,000 do a square foot you know like Bill R I think there are probably Architects that could do that but that's not what we're talking about so I didn't I couldn't I didn't really relate to the the other reference projects that were like the Thousand project ,000 for square foot projects as opposed to you know we had to like the like the infographic project I think that was mson maybe um I think it was and I I love the way they did that program they were like in the deep end it sounded like with their firefighters in Monson you know with multiple meetings and tons of feedback and and I love that approach and I didn't I didn't really hear that from the other guys I think that um who T was it Tas um second the gante the third one oh galante or winter gante yeah I mean I I thought they would do a solid project I liked what they talked about with onset I mean but I didn't think that they had the same they I think that um tekon they have the horses in the barn to do the project they have the expertise I think they've done similar projects and I liked what they would for the next six months I think it would be a really really heavy project for anyone and I think that they can do it I'm not 100% sure about the other two yeah so good go ahead are you going to ask a question or you well I want to follow up on I mean I agree with you and I and I do agree also me all like they have a better process okay but a question for us they might say they can do it in the four months but they might not be able to who the they either one that no well let's just say tekon ton and driving I mean mson because they didn't know what they wanted and then they took a long time but they got to a good outcome right but it took them like a year so I think a thing we have to think about is it more important to get a schematic in front of town meeting in the spring or is it more important to get it right I'm not going to weigh in my opinion but I think that's important because they may say sure we can do it we'll start you know on Saturday but it won't be that way here if they're going to do it right they're going to have iterative meetings I love it you know bring the on call people in talk to everybody get all this input that takes time it just takes time with our calendar we can't get the meeting scheduled etc etc so we need collectively to think about better to be quit or better to be R so what did you think about their the comment that um after they uh when we asked about uh meeting the time frame um said that oh that after they did the assessments within two weeks they could give an estimate of cost one week after the program needs right but there the Trad exactly what Neil talked about you will the as a result of the program it will generate a square foot cost I'm sorry it will generate a total estimated square footage for the size of the project and to that you heard the number from three I think of the candidates somewhere between 800 and 900 a square foot for new construction right they're all going to give you that information right right after the program is done and that is going to be your first Thumb in the wind as to how close we are to your $10 million ceiling so you think that's a realistic I do okay I do and I and I think that what where it where it becomes a little bit less black and white is when you start speaking about uh renovation right renovation is a very gray area you can renovate something by painting it and cleaning it out and you can renovate something by doing major structural rehab and it's all renovation right one is very expensive one is not so the renovation number always makes me a little bit skittish but new construction is pretty flexible pretty uh predictable in terms of what your estimated costs will be and and that is sort of your first measure as to where you are budget wise right when you do when you do a conceptual drawing and you have a an approximate square footage based on a plan and elevations and a general location on a site plan you can hone that in a little bit further and get it more refined maybe a little bit less contingency but the bottom line is is you'll have a general idea very soon after the program based on estimated square footage when the chief mentioned that one group didn't really get it with the you know renovation relative to a new construction um and this is really for the select board I know that that the fire chief has come with certain ideas and programmatic needs and we've followed along with that and think there are merits to that but at the same time this is a new designer coming in and do we think that it makes sense to have them they're going to evaluate the whole thing they're going to look at this existing station they may come and say wow there's some programmatic needs that are could be met right in the station now and we could reconfigure it slightly and have some Annex facility but you know it it is going to be kind of a a mish mishmash is that kind of the plan for this going for it's not just focusing on new construction I think and again not to speak out of turn but I think what you have to be weary of is once you hit a certain threshold for renovation of the existing building you're then required to bring the entire building up to current code requirements and that is what we are trying to avoid doing here right that's how you spend that four five $600 a square foot in the existing space right to bring it up to to bring it up to code compliance and that's what we're trying to avoid frankly to some degree but they know that too right they do they should they should if they listened they should if you're the consultant so I'm sure you'll be dealing with them oh yes I'm just I mean my comment was more front end of that process I get what you said but if you know going to interview the on call guys going to interview the boards and committee it's just in our little town it just takes time we we spoke when you interviewed us we spoke very much in the same way and I said my words to you were if you tell them it's got to be done in two months it will be done in two months they will put two months fulltime into it to get to a decision to meet your deadline right it may not be the best solution but it will fit within the timeline you give them exactly if this board decides that they want to spend more time do more work up front do expend more effort before bringing it out publicly more marketing more more more right they can certainly work to that schedule we just need to let them know what the expectation is and that is something that you can negotiate with your top rank respondent they can work to any schedule that you would so that's a question so when whoever we select when it comes to that negotiation they're going to want to know that for sure because that's going to we we need to you need to be really as clear as you could possibly be in terms of period of performance deadlines deliverables all of that really should be flushed out and laid out clearly so that there's no lack of understanding of what's needed and when it's needed by yeah we have an expression want it bad get it bad clear clear is clear as kind that's what we say in my house and um shoot I forgot my question oh well never mind so with the board I mean I just kind of sum up what we may think collectively or individually but about these presentations so you know we had ranked them ahead of time we actually saw them in the order in which we had ranked them um and we use some qualitative ranking on by the way what's that Rebecca's on just so you know Rebecca Hopkins te we said we would take some Community input in a minute well no but he's saying one of the canidates is on but that's fine it's a public meeting a public meeting she may not realize is maybe on Wi-Fi I mean cellular wifi okay so we started with RGB they were not here but they were also you know our on a number of factors we went through and on technical basis we we rated all these on different and our evaluation of different things um then we went to Winter Street Galant and then um tekon so is there anything that would in your mind or any of the members here change that ordering based on what we saw here tonight um for me the only question would be um without getting I believe uh my my top ranking doesn't change um I guess for the purposes of this exercise um I do wonder if my the rank two and three were fairly fairly close together um and I'm still kind of digesting the interview in terms of how I would rank those respective interviews right because they were only one point difference between gante and winter so to me um I agree with that I don't know if like I thought uh I was most impressed with tecton's presentation especially through the lens of the process and how I could see it playing out at town meeting and getting the town meeting I was most comfortable with that um the other two I think we would have to discuss because they were closely ranked and we we want to get that ranking we do need to discuss it cuanda said we need to R reach an impass you y so I guess for me uh number two um there winter Winter Street their interview moved their in their ranking down did not did not move it up it the because of the presentation being so jumpy and small and um and read not fluent um I just I was very uncomfortable with their presentation and I just couldn't visualize us using them to sell this project um and I would say that the gante on the other hand group went up a notch because of the presentation and the fact that they have a marketing department and that guy talked about you know what how to present and what to do and when to do it um that you know I thought that was that added to their that moved him up I did move him up past tecton I'm not you know prepared to say yet but I would say for me um winter speech got knocked down any other I would say that I thought the opposite I thought winter impressed me more than their paper presentation on the basis of the following they basically do fire stations that's they do a lot of fire stations they have small town board experience which I think is a plus I you know I mean again Neil and I may disagree a little on this but I you know the iterative proc they were totally cost yeah the presentation was jumpy we can fix that I mean we can fix that I I I I wouldn't ding them because of that I mean we'll manage our public Outreach but they are re they appear to be really cost stri like cost cost cost and that's us so I actually felt like they went up a little TG I can't say they went down they were okay but they're still the same Arty group that I thought they were I viewed it in as thinking about how the Dynamics of meeting with boards and committees and working with everyone and and whether they presented themselves kind of as a team working well with each other even just how they present and I thought that you know in my mind Winter Street went up in that because I could see them relating a little bit more to our needs in carile um whereas I felt like teas um you know I was concerned that if the primary principal there got hit by a bus or whatever you know are you what where you says hey we need your team we need your team right where you going to be and I I just thought maybe for our community that wouldn't well so but that's on a more of an interpersonal level but as far as the but all those things and that's why we interview them is to to measure those types of subtleties rather than some of the objective things that we were y anything else Scott Barney no I mean it's it's very different very different presentations right like and and I tended to respond a little bit better to to winter I agree with the presentation format um I thought the the individuals I could see them working with the committies galante the way it was you know it was presented was very D you know it was essentially a a wall of people and and you know one primary speaking and so I didn't get as much a sense of the the team or the attention we would get um so mix bag um and again I think based on the written material I had different expectations and so I was a bit more pleasantly surprised with Winter Street in that respect but I it's close it's close I again I I would I would not change my top ranking it's really a question of two vers we have to we have to come we have to a second choice so it sounds like from all of us at least at this point our top ranking is Tech time yes right all right so you agree with that Kate yeah yeah all right so then just thinking I think we can agree um RGB would be out out a lot will remains in the fourth position I would even say like insufficient like we had the we had the grade of interview as I mean this this is something they could attend via Zoom you could have any team member attend via zoom and by not being here in person I can understand things happen but if you don't attend via Zoom to me that's a disqualification so I would I wouldn't be uncomfortable under any scenario moving forward with them okay I don't know that's fine I'm agree you Kate you agree I agree okay so down to two and three two and three so well I mean for Winter Street well Winter Street on the other hand I mean I was very unhappy with the presentation yes we know on the other hand um I was impressed with the the right sizing um I I liked weer who's going to be the project manager and I like the fact that they emphasize programming eliminating elevators and stairs I like that eliminating elevators can we do elate all elevators out a million doll I think they are Avail I as I recall their schedule made the it look that they're really going to be available to hit our timeline yeah that they they they can go all in because they're they're close to finishing a bunch of other things so you're softening your stance a little well as I said I'm still I let I wouldn't let them near any audiences because we take care we got Neil what do we need we got Neil is is there anything else from our Consultants on that decision that you would weigh in on something as I was reflecting on it I would say I thought I thought Winter Street did a good job I thought they made a nice presentation the only thing I would say negatively was I felt like they read you a written response that's that's what I was and that was the only it was the only thing that it kind of just rubbed me the wrong way I felt like I don't want to say that the responses were canned but I'm not sure that they really reflected the the team that sat before us today yeah maybe I could be way off base but I felt like the other firms they all spoke much more from their heart if you will and from their experience um and a little bit more off the cuff yeah and and I felt like that was maybe a little bit more genuine but just well weer for of that one was the only one that spoke to us which is you know I mean I even remembered his name because of it because the other one wait you're talking about Dana weer in from wi Street yeah okay can we is it fair can we revisit at a high level the references for the two of those because they both had well Tas also has a has a ding because they never came through the walk walk through either and they had a bad reference well and I and Winter Street you're right I I couldn't find my note but they had from Bill work no very low score oh they did yeah Newbury port was a solid yes devans even though they had some reservations who said yes they'd hire them again okay um so the one last thing I mean we've talked about Community tonight I would reach out here just briefly if there's someone does anyone from the community if I was to allow you one minute to speak if you have a a question or something that would umate um I'll take a but literally I do not want long answers so we'll start with you Debbie Bentley hi thanks a lot um I'm just going to speak from an architectural point of view sure the first thing you do in architecture school is learn how to present if someone does not present well to you as a fully qualified architect I think that's a bit of a we a little bit of a we red flag because you're taught that for five years everything you do is about presentation so and and we have to get this through town meeting and you have to have people that can just get that and present really well and persuade people this is where they want to spend their money okay that's a good input thank good input y thank you um can we see the screen again please Christina all right Christina hi thank you um just uh from the environmental um perspective uh Winter Street uh I think really understood and Incorporated um the need to include environmental sustainability um they they Incorporated that in their presentation quite heavily whereas um I forget the second one there was not a single mention about environmental sustainability um they brought a consultant but there was Zero mention about it in their presentation so um since we're hoping to become a climate leader community and since there um a lot of momentum and goals um for envir environmental sustainability um I think that that sort of differentiates the Winter Street from uh the second group thanks thank you okay all right good I saw John La had a comment but I couldn't see it uh on the screen in the chat in the chat you want to take a look at it sure sure sure can you see read that I can read it it so other than I think David's point on the timeline y particularly towards tekon was very un point so he agreeing with David that was a smart strategy all right great well thank you to the public and um you know I think now it's just on us to uh to determine so I would I would say that based on this conversation it seems like tekon would be our number one choice um based on the ranking that we did and then on tonight if we were to do how do we actually so um you scored these yeah and I think the best way to do it would be to see if you want to adjust any of your scores is there one point different so for Winter Street under General experience you gave um highly advantageous fire station experience highly advantageous staff experience highly advantageous understanding your project goals advantageous and then the two things you gave them were um not advantageous for references and current workload mhm I think workload I would yeah current workload I think I would change I would adjust the current workload from what is it two to three or whatever you would go from two to three is that consensus yeah I do yeah they seem to be they going to be available I mean we don't really know the fact is we don't know but they seem like they can do I wouldn't ding them I guess that's what I well they had a small team and there wasn't I'm trying to remember there wasn't much about what were they say about consult I guess they said this was the right time for them but they all said that what it give us the TS uh so for the qualification the top three qualifications it was highly highly highly for understanding your project goals it was not advantageous for references not advantageous current workload advantageous and Energy Efficiency was highly wait you're talking about who t Okay Okay end Point ahead so this yeah and on paper but that's interesting the comment about the Energy Efficiency because they didn't bring it up and yet their whole presentation now they have worked in in uh Cambridge which I suspect is I suspect they have to do they have to have some experience doing that but I do sort of agree with Christina's Point first went into yeah we I actually both I agree Debbie has a great debb a great great point you know I I agree so let me ask Neil when this thing winds its way through in your experience which group or person leads the uh you know presentation at town meeting or the who's the public face of this other than us is it the architect or is it you guys or somebody else so in most instances the architect will get up and present their work the OPM will get up and sort of roll through the project budget and the schedule right so functionally speaking the OPM takes a piece of it architecturally speaking and programming speaking the architect will speak to that directly and then ultimately we would we would anticipate that somebody from the town most likely the chief or somebody else uh would get up and speak on behalf of the project maybe as an introduction right but the architect's important presenter yes they yes weer weer could proba it's going to say so for Winter Street the architect was Dana weer correct no he was the project was Paul Durand yes dur principal but who's the architect for win was the project manager yeah but who's the architect the guy on the left um he was the guy reading was the lead guy the guy who was reading but he was reading look I don't know but where he went off script was when he talked about their small town board experience so right I don't I yeah it looks stupid but they got to be coachable I can't believe we can't coach them I can coach anybody to speak I'm telling you I do for living so I I feel like that I wouldn't over personally I wouldn't put that too much above like Energy Efficiency or cost Consciousness but that's just my opinion all right so assuming you don't adjust ts's scores and you do add one point to win so it's going to be based off the interviews statistically and methodologically which is important so well I I would just like to mention though on the scoring uh I don't know why why wouldn't we give witer Street another score for raise them up a point for the Energy Efficiency what did they get at they had a three from us and a two from Neil that's mostly what they talked about right yeah their Net Zero building the solar panels right the crystal in infrastructure and all that it went down that can I just ask Eric who's on our sustainability committee did you have any reaction to the in terms of the energy no I mean they had they definitely had a lot of experience um looking at I think they all did in one way for or another um but the ones where they that Winter Street I thought did pretty well in that regard could give my point I think though as a half a point one of the things I think the laston any they did well at is saying look there's all these things you're aiming for but sometimes you get so complex there that so I think sustain is great but I think if that's your priority you're going to there's no way you're going to meet your budgets it's going to cost ex you have comp comp if the board wants to raise that up to one point that would look like then that we would select Winter Street as back number as number two assuming the interview is a wash between the two of them yeah yeah which I think is yeah I think it's I me there things to wait on each of of their you presentation was not optimal but you know and I think who who made the point that um just in terms of uh what's the right word you know the way they came across to us and sort of who you felt like you had some that they were you could see them you know talking with people in our town um I did feel that the Winter Street guys were just kind more approachable than the galante and mainly it's because I think the key the principal galante himself did so much of the talking he sort of monopolized yeah there are times for that but I think for us this would probably be so are we in agreement if that's to to to raise that among the board cont number so if we raise the the point score of Winter Street on to a four on environmental effici efficient energy efficient design that would actually on a on our numerical ratings put them Winter Street and second and I think that fits kind of what we've talked about with the interviews as well so um do you need something more formal than this you will need to vote yeah okay well we can vote an order here okay so would you anyone like to make a motion unless there's are we moving the rank ordering y the rank order I move that we rate the four firms in the following order tecton number one Winter Street number two Tas number three and RB RGB RGB disqualified for non-responsiveness to the interview here a second second any further discussion see none let's vote all in favor I None opposed all right that's what we'd like to do thank you for your time tonight thank you very much good process so do we need to discuss is got you how does it work now you you're going to negotiate with their guidance have to yes and then to bring you back up so that's a timing now we get back you and Neil do that or see I'm tell you okay fall time meeting all right we still open for uming regardless you you brought that up David and maybe it's worth one or two minutes talking about can I ask just one just a timeline thing so are we is the goal to try to work out the contract uh such that we could approve the hiring do we need do you need to come back to us and we have to approve the final no I think Hing authorize I'm just ask that's why I'm asking so there's a there's a cost component to this that you need to weigh in on okay so there's enough money to fund this initial part if balance and both firms are willing to balance this initial design cost to get to this first town meeting boote either way whether you have a schematic design and a fully develop project or not you're going to need more design money so there will be a town meeting ask of some sort whether you want to delay more to get more programming a fall town meeting in a different Vote or you want to go for the full design cost at time meeting you're going to have to make that call so I'm going to have to bring that proposal back to we're going to have to talk about that while we've got our Consultants here though that my question and I think it's important that we establish this as a board but our goal had been to really get to Springtown meeting you had brought up well we could study more programmatically and get this but it sounds like if we give the amount of time they'll do something in that amount of time to get us schematics for something to town meeting U to reach that goal the question is are we comfortable with that because we've done enough study with the all the constituents all the parties involved and the fire departments wait in and we get enough feedback that we're comfortable that we can hit that goal I think we should actually Target the goal irrespective because I think we need should try and I I just want to follow what Brian was just saying but so you're you're suggesting that we need more design money in any case so therefore the design could evolve further from town meeting is that right yeah okay so it's not likeed town meeting one thing to ask for I don't know I'm going to make it up 100K more at town meeting to do more design it's another thing to say here's a schematic it benchmarks at 10 million doll right so the I guess to go back to Travis yeah are you Travis now I am okay I think we should make an objective to to get schematic to town meeting but I believe we should be flexible and we should have some break points where we would not put that would not be the article right I mean can we write the article for Feb 11 deadline such that it's either or or write two articles I don't know the details of the Articles can can be flushed out it's is the article going to exist and it does there will be an article there will certainly be an article I'm just saying right away do you have to wait till the 11th for example to approve whatever you if you are successfully negotiate with the architect ton ton do you have to now wait for us to meet again or there you go so I'm just pointing out that we just don't work that fast here and and I think if to give them if we want to be take advantage of what we like about their process we're probably going to end up with something in front of spring but not the design and then we can roll that's although we could you know I don't know how quickly that negotiation could happen but let's say it happened you know well before the February 11th there's nothing that stops US except for making sure we post it far enough in advance to have a we have a meeting next week yeah the end of next week right just to get that part done sure yeah okay okay so there's a motion in the our packet shall we make use yeah please do please do I moved to authorize the Town Administrator and owner's project manager to enter into contract negotiation with tekon if a contract cannot be reached the Town Administrator and owner's project manager are further authorized to enter into a contract negotiations with winter Winter Street second okay all in favor I I None opposed all right do you're authorized duly so great and if you need a meeting you'll let us know and we'll get it I'm just tell we got to talk about funding this is this is too many variables so we're going to have to bring you something whether it's at a special meeting or on the 11th okay okay okay we'll keep you posted great thank you for your time tonight great job everyone you done okay great so I think that concludes oh we have Community input if there's anyone I see Debbie Bentley you have your hand up do we really want to yes I do I'm your thank you very much for all your hard work regarding uh interviewing The Architects um I'm here to talk about um something that's happening to do with NBTA Housing Act and some misrepresentation that is being presented and and talked about around town the fact of the matter is that all the academic and Commercial research shows that development uh multif family development does not affect the the valuation of neighboring properties goodbye thanks a lot and um this actually is an urban myth it came about as a result of redlining uh which we all know is uh not very great part of American History um on and um I was been waiting for um the assessors to show to illustrate that this was not the case um and it didn't happen so I actually did all the work myself I Ma I took the assessor information about land values and mapped them onto uh the map of carile and analyzed the areas that have U multif family um developments and um the surrounding properties I've actually published this on sitting in the woods and I've actually sent you both you and the planning board this uh data now the reason I'm really concerned is that um there there there at this MTH has been promoted by the chair of uh the board of assessors and he has been using his position certainly at the MBTA open house calling him with speaking with authority and even when I called him out and said there is no academic or or commercial research to show that he has continued to say state state this position and he has now joined this new community group which appears to be acting against having MBTA housing or or agreed in the town um I think the select Board needs to let's do something clear we as a resident we need to have all the residents need real information we don't need made up information we need real data so we can actually make the right decisions for our town we obviously this the planning board are going to be doing that but we need to know what's going on we don't need to have hearsay we don't need to have waste time talking about this anymore uh we we've only got 11 months left so I really think that this is something that you all need to be aware of and you need to act on there is if there's a conflict of interest then you need to deal with it because I cannot see how the chair of the assessors can be saying one thing when the actual data from the assessor's office says the other so I'm really I'm really sorry that I've had to bring this up but it's um we haven't got time we have no time we have to get this to town meeting and we have to get an agreed program passed because I don't want to waste my taxes being sued are suing the state thank you thanks Debbie for your comment all right is there any other public comment anyone in the audience no all right seeing none n no more on Zoom so I'd take a motion to adjourn so moved amen all right all in favor I I and one abstain ion