Okay, at 7 o'clock, why don't we go ahead and open? This is the July 28th meeting of Carile Select Board. We're going to open with our first item on the agenda, which is any community input. Do we have any community input either in
the room or on the phone? Hearing none, we're going to go ahead and move on to the second item on the agenda, which is to set the hours for early voting for the state primary and the state election. And for that, we're
going to invite our town clerk, Ashley, up to the table. >> Thank you very much, >> town clerk, Ashley Cody, just bringing uh some routine business before you. Um, I'm looking to set the uh early voting in-person hours for the September 1st
primary and the November 3rd general election. Um, the state, the secretary of the state requires in-person early voting for all state primaries and state elections. Um, typically it's one week for state primaries, two weeks before the state election, but the um hours and
number of weekend days do vary based on community size, so they allow some flexibility. uh for our um population which is about 4,100 voters or so what's required is um at least four hours per weekend uh one
weekend day at least and uh 25% or at least two hours per day of our normal business hours. Um so what I'm proposing is um it more than satisfies those requirements. Uh it's about three hours uh per day for the weekend for the
weekday business hours and um one 4-hour weekend day. Um I'm recommending to limit it from full business hours just because typically the midterm elections and that primaries typically are not very highly attended uh especially for
the in-person early voting element. Um, and this will be available in addition to vote by mail and full um election day hours as well. Uh, looking back at some of the previous elections, uh, in 2024, our state primary week of early voting
saw 20 in-person voters all week. So, there's about three a day. >> Um, the state election in 2022 is a little more active. Uh, that saw over the course of 12 days 318 in-person early voters, which was about 26 per
day. still not, you know, people banging down the door, you know, but it's, you know, more substantial than the primaries. Uh, so given the history of attendance, I think it's these hours would be appropriate to offer folks an opportunity to come and cast their ballot before the election day if
they're going to be away or it's more convenient during these hours. And it does include one weekend day, which I think people will tend to, you know, gravitate towards uh for convenience. Um and again we do have uh vote by mail available for this election both
elections as well. Um so that's kind of the general um background behind why the ask is to reduce the hours from full business hours. Uh it's just looking at the uh previous attendance and also availability [cough] of pole workers as well.
>> Right. Right. Yeah. So I you actually was going to ask about the staffing plan, but given the throngs of 20 to 26 people, maybe it's not. So, but what is the staffing plan? You say we we do need to have some poll. >> Typically, um the requirement is at least two poll workers. Uh one at check
in and uh one at checkout um just to you know ensure that you know there's uh adequate staff to assist voters if there's any questions. um and also um will be available as well, both myself and Melissa, to assist in person early voters in addition to our two poll workers.
>> Okay, >> great. And >> this is consistent with what we've been doing. >> Yes, I looked back um at the last uh you know, four years of the of the elections. >> Now, for the um presidential years, we'll obviously want full hours for for those elections, but um typically it was
two hours per day in the past for these types of elections. So, I figured we'll just round it up a little bit to three and offer a little more availability while also kind of maintaining our staffing needs. >> Okay. Um, just out of curiosity, what is the cost of hosting an election like
this? And is there any sort of state reimbursement that comes that way? >> That's a great question. Um, the state does um offer reimbursement for uh what they call nonfund unfunded mandates. Uh we fill out surveys uh that basically report our costs for these types of laws
that do put a financial burden on our office and aren't otherwise supported by the state financially. Um luckily for us, we're a pretty, you know, small community and we have a wonderful volunteer uh base. So mainly these costs
are found in paying pole workers but where we have volunteers that is a significant cost that is not you know incurred by our community. Um other uh costs are pretty minimal to be honest because a lot of the equipment and the
uh materials that are needed for early voting [clears throat] are also needed on election day. So we have them available such as poll pads and and things like that. So that's not a huge cost and anything that is incurred is reimbursed by the state if it's not funded by the state already. >> Okay.
>> So it's a funded unfunded mandate. >> Yes. Yes. It's a fun >> I wish we had more of those. >> Yeah. It was actually really great news when uh the state did um say that they were going to reimburse for both vote by mail costs and uh inerson early voting costs because the vote by mail is really actually where we see the biggest cost
because of the postage. So we get that reimburse now from the state which is fantastic. not totally directly related, but I know there's been a lot in the news about um you know, federal oversight of elections and have have has
Carile received any inquiries or have any of the neighboring communities received any inquiries or >> We haven't. And at the last um Massachusetts Town Clerk's Association conference um we had some officials touch on that a little bit and you know basically they said if they get any type
of indication that there's going to be either you know any type of oversight um or involvement from at the federal level that they would you know be in communication with us and give us guidance on how we handle that and manage that. But so far there hasn't
been anything, you know, in from the state that we've heard officially. >> I'm guessing they have bigger targets than car. >> I [laughter] think so. Yeah. Yeah. I think we'll be flying into >> But you never know. >> But you never know. You got to be prepared. Absolutely.
>> Okay. >> Do you need a motion on this? >> Uh we do have a motion. >> Perfect. Got it. So, I move to approve the early inperson voting hours for the Dece September 1st, 2026 state primary and November 3rd, 2026 state election as
described in the memo prepared by town clerk Ashley Coat dated June 30th, 2026. >> I second that. >> Okay. Um, uh, let's see here. Where did we leave
off? Okay, you guys, we have a motion, a second, and uh how about >> discussion? >> Any further discussion? Thank you. Sorry, I blanked on. [laughter] >> Any further discussion? >> No. Okay. Um why don't we go ahead and
take a voice vote? All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Any no votes? >> No. Okay. Eyes have it. >> Thank you very much, Ashley. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you to the volunteers and the staff who will make this happen. And then I'm sure it will go smoothly as always.
>> Absolutely. >> We have a wonderful volunteer base that we're very grateful for. So, >> we're very fortunate. >> And I'll be actually sticking around for the next item. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Item three on the agenda is to approve the Oh, technically that was in the
motion. Yes. Approve >> new motion. Different motion. >> The state primary warrant. Oh, >> so yeah, similar. Um, while we're on the uh primary, I figured we would uh go ahead and take care of the warrant. Uh, the warrant is required for any type of
election. It serves as a notice uh to the voters in town about what is being voted on, where it's being voted at, and what hours uh the voting is taking place. Um, so this is the uh warrant for the state primary that delineates um all
of the offices that are up for election uh the hours and the place of voting. Okay. And then after this is um approved and signed uh by the select board, it's posted by the constable uh in accordance
with our bylaws. >> Okay. What questions do we have for Ashley on this? Any Carile specific items are outside of this? Correct. >> This is uh No, the the most local it gets is the uh Middle Sex County register probate, but yeah, everything
else is um either district or uh statewide. So, nothing um Carlile specific for this um warrant, >> but we could have items on the ballot >> for the general election. Yes, that's correct. >> Not for the primary. Correct. >> Right. Not for the primary. They only allow that for uh the general election
if there's going to be any type of questions or things like that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um so I'll go ahead and move to approve the warrant for the state primary scheduled for Tuesday, September 1st, 2026 from 7 to 8:00 p.m. in the Clark
room of town hall as presented in the packet. >> I second that motion. >> Okay. Any discussion or deliberation? Let's do a voice vote. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any no votes?
Okay, the eyes have it. >> And thank you very much, Ashley. >> Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. >> Thank you, Ashley. >> Thank you. Good evening. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Item four on the agenda
>> is >> appointments over. >> Yeah, no worries. Uh we have some we have many appointments tonight. >> Okay. For the >> So what tends to happen here and this is this is no judgment is we go through the appointing process.
>> Yes. and then people may or may not have realized that their their terms were up and then they go to meet and then there there might be some issues. So this is kind of the second round of appointments going on here andor filling slots that we've been advertising for for people to come and fill. So that's why there's a
lot >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. I'm glad to have the uh again strong volunteer base. Is there any way to automate the like Gretchen and whoever would get a ping when you know there's an email
reminder notice when someone's term is up because I can see how [clears throat] that would slip by all the time. No one's checking the website every day or you know >> we do remind folks they it's not the first thing on their mind that their term may be a year or three years >> first thing anyone's mind yeah
>> they're not necessarily looking for it but we do remind them >> right >> and then we remind them again and then they end up on your uh >> your appointment list in August [laughter] >> yes okay so >> and they're not in a rush to be reappointed in a lot of cases [laughter]
>> because they're just continuing on right >> try to be kind. We understand this is unpaid volunteerism. So, >> Right. Right. Looking forward. >> Okay. So, we have a number of motions on that and we can just do them read them all at once and then do one vote at the end. Is that fine, Ryan?
>> I would do them um as they come because there's when we get to the safety committee, we need to talk about that one. >> Okay. We'll do them each individually. Okay. So, can I have some motions to uh appoint people? Yeah, I'll move to appoint Sarah Wingert
of Page Brook Road to the Recreation Commission with a term to end June 30, 2029. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I Any votes? >> No. Okay, the eyes have it. >> The next slate is the community
preservation committee. A lot of these are recommendations from other boards because of the makeup of the CPC. So, once they were all appointed, now we're doing another round of appointments. Okay. >> So, I'll go ahead and move to appoint Chrissy O'Shea as the historical
commission representative to the community preservation committee with a term to end June 30, 2027. >> Second. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any no votes?
>> Okay, the eyes have it. Thank you. Move to appoint Sylvia Willard as the conservation commission representative to the community preservation committee with a term to end June 30, 2027. >> Second. Thank you. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I.
>> Any no votes. Okay. And >> well, >> yeah, >> the last one ends. Is that 2027 as well? Should the motion read? It says 2026. >> It should 2027. These are all one-year terms. >> Yes, because it's CPC. Gotcha. Move to
appoint Sarah Wangert as the recreation commission representative to the Community Preservation Committee with a term to end June 30, 2027. >> Second. Thank you. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any [clears throat] votes?
>> Okay. >> Ryan, tell us about >> on to the safety committee. >> Yes. So, there's a a few a few things about the safety committee. safety committee does an excellent job. It's a lot of work. There's a lot involved in your safety committee, especially getting up and running and doing the the
work that they're doing, mainly traffic, speed, which you know about, and then the connected Carile sidewalk project. They have a difficulty getting a quorum, just [snorts] one of the things that many of the boards suffer from. and one
of their members, Valerie, who does a large amount of work for them, didn't realize that her one-year term had expired and thought she was just continuing to serve. It's one of the reasons why they had uh difficulty getting quorum because we weren't able to put her in front of you for
appointment. In the meantime, we also had Ruben Clickstein come in. He is one of your one of your traffic folks out there. Probably probably seen him. he has an interest in safety and you only have um one slot for for the safety
committee. So you have a choice between Valerie and Ruben. Um the safety committee has not been able to meet. So they have not made a recommendation on this. Um but there is no reason not to see Valerie as a valid candidate
considering she's involved in in a lot of the work. So that that is the assumption is that she would continue. >> Great. Once again, so pleased to have the um wealth of uh qualified talent volunteering their time. That's great. Um very lucky to have that. Yeah, in the
interesting of continuity um you know, I'm happy to hear all points of view here, but I'd say, you know, let's continue on with Valerie if she's been um already in the role and doing a great job. Does anyone have any other
>> comments on that? Is there something else that Ruben I mean there's some open positions. Should anyone reach out and see if he might be interested in something else or is this the only thing? >> We we will and he has a passion for it and we're going to recommend because safety committee may lose some members
that he served kind of deacto without a vote on that committee helping them for a while and then when there's an opening uh to apply to you. >> Yeah. In the meantime, Dave, your safety committee liaison, maybe uh reach out and encourage him to come before the
safety committee and I'm sure he had a he maintains an informed point of view. He probably rose raised his hand because he wanted to impart that maybe they can uh hear him out and um you know benefit from all his good ideas. >> Sounds good. >> And is he um is there a role in any of
the I know he was involved in the original complete street. Is that a separate as that ramps up some of that work? Is there going to be some volunteer roles needed or No, >> that right now is being done by your safety committee.
>> Okay. Okay. I mean, he's just got a lot of experience with >> Yeah. >> the things that we care about. So, it'd be great to get the benefit of his um of that experience. >> Yeah. Um, but you know, I I typically if
if the safety committee if if Valerie has done a good job with that, typically we'd want to encourage the continuity, >> but yeah, let's get him involved. >> There's no associate members on that committee. Correct. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But, you know, it's like one of these things that people are always welcome.
They're all public meetings. People are welcome to attend, welcome to have as much input as anyone else. You just don't vote at the end of the day, but typically you can make a lot of contributions. So I I would encourage him to get involved at least in the agenda items that relate to the things he's passionate about.
>> Yeah, for sure. Okay. Um why don't we Oh, >> so you want you want to make a motion? >> Oh, yeah. Sorry. I I So Valerie Okay. Move to appoint uh Valerie Thaddius to the safety committee with a term to end
June 30, 2029. >> Correct. Good. >> Second. Thank you. Okay, let's do a voice vote. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any no votes? >> Okay, >> we locked her up for a three-year term. That's good.
>> And that that's a five person committee or is it seven? >> It might be even bigger. >> Seven. >> It's seven. Yeah. >> I mean, again, if they have a problem reaching a quorum, if it's good to know that there's someone out there with interest. So, >> yeah. >> So, one more thing on the safety
committee. The ESC nominated Eric to serve um as your ESC representative to that safety committee. We were going back and forth u mainly when I say we me on that being an automatic appointment but it's not. It has to go through you and we assume that
it did. So if you also [clears throat] appoint the ESC rep Eric tonight that would be that would be helpful for their quorum. So it's [snorts] not it's not in your packet but it is an ESC slot assuming you want that to continue. >> Same motion but for Eric Ballas. Yes.
And the term ending, >> that one should be a one-year term for now. >> I move to appoint Eric Ballas to the safety committee >> with a term to end June 30th, 2027. >> Second. Thank you.
>> You're willing. [laughter] >> Always good to check. >> You're resident, >> especially when they're in the room. [clears throat] >> Great. Thank you. Okay, let's do a voice vote. All in favor say I. I. I. >> Any no votes? Okay, eyes have it. Thank you.
>> Safety committee's fully armed, ready to go. >> Uh, don't use those words. [laughter] >> Okay, the next item on the agenda, >> baseball arms. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Next item on the agenda is the uh item five, employee health insurance opt out
stipen. >> Sure. >> Hi everybody. >> Hello. read those online. I'm Robert Thomas, the assistant town administrator and HR director. Um, so this uh came up because um we were doing our annual stipens for um different employees and
this siphon came up um and upon research we found that it had begun past practice for a couple employees. One of them has since left since last year. Um but one employee has continued to receive this stipen annually.
um upon further research, it doesn't look like it was formally um terminated this program, but we do not support that. We do not give this opt out uh siphon to anybody else. Um it looks like when um the town switch to
Maya um insurance is when that ended. Um the form did state that when the program ended um employees would no longer receive the stipen. But because this employee has continued to get this um I
do recommend just as HR to continue um honoring that past practice for only this employee um until either they leave or um join our insurance. Anyone have any questions on this topic?
>> I mean, we used to do this. This was I know this is back when I was on Vincomecom. I think this was implemented um with the hopes that it would both benefit the employees and also reduce cost to the town. And I don't think it really
there's a larger question of should we try this again? Um what's typical though? Like typically if you terminate a program it's odd to give it to one employee. I mean I understand these extenduating circumstances but is >> I'm not entirely sure the full history
of why only these two employees continue to receive that one. Clearly they are not the only two employees who opted out since 2018. >> Um it's hard to find that trail of where that came from. >> Um >> do you think it was an error or do you
think there was an agreement? So, I did reach out to the employee in case they had something that I was I didn't have in our files and they said they just assumed that they continued to to receive it. Um, they were very apologetic and I assured them that they didn't do anything wrong.
>> Um, and so, uh, yeah, there was nothing no agreement that um, I could confirm as to why um, they still have that. I do think it was probably an error. They just received the annual um, stipend. And >> is that through payroll?
>> Yes. And so um I was tasked by the um our town accountant to create a memo to explain why this person's getting a stipen and this is what >> okay >> how this surfaced is when I investigated because I won't write a memo without actual uh facts to back it up right um and so
when I dug into it and I said I cannot authorize this that's not this isn't my call so that's why it's brought it to you now >> so this was flagged in payroll as a unknown stipen right? Is that what just just to understand process-wise because it also raises the question is more is there
more of this out there? No, I mean >> not this, but >> other stipens I would say Kelly has been very thorough and I think this is one of the very few that has >> I guess stragglers I would call it because she is fully vetting yeah
>> everything everything needs backup as you've seen we have a lot she's strengthened the financial policies her and Sandy so >> um I think this is just one of the few things that because it only happens annually it took a year to hit it and say hold up where where
>> it's just in the system as it doesn't say like healthcare stipen and um chief sorrows has a comment back there. >> I was just going to say that when I started >> I was told I was telling [laughter] you that the chair can recognize you. Sorry. >> Go ahead. >> I'm sorry. When I started, I was told
that um people had been grandfathered, >> but I I opted out and was not given the type and I said because that policy ended that there were people who were grandfathered in, but since I was starting later, I was not going to get it. So, it was acknowledged that it existed when I started just
>> Okay, that that is helpful that it was at least verbally acknowledged it was grandfathered. So, that's great. Um but yeah that this is just there's just one person um at this point. So would not there would be no additional uh >> yeah so we're we're looking at
everything as you know we're looking into your accounts to your your policies just to make sure we're implementing best and one of the things we've been doing is implementing HR practice. Um, one of the legacy inheritances that that we received was Excel spreadsheet
approvals, right? We fixed that with the implementation of Bamboo Bamboo HR. And then as we went through each one of the payments and we're starting to do the processing, we identified things like this and we dig into a lot of them and a lot of them just go away and you never see them. Um, but in this particular
instance, this is a union employee. This was past practice and and it was missed. So the the way the way we're recommending to you, the way we feel about it is this no longer will happen. It no longer exists and we've documented it, but we have these legacy issues that
we have to deal with. >> It's just this one. >> I mean, we're going to keep digging. The alternative is to not look. [laughter] >> We vetted every single one that are, you know, that were due 6:30 and this was the one that um there was no documentation to support it.
>> Okay. It's not like there's a ton of these things out there, but you know, people receive acrruels that part-time employees that wouldn't necessarily or they're getting some mileage and we look at it and we dig into it and we figure out why. And it turns out, you know, there was a memo from 20 years ago where
this stuff was done. So, we're trying to make sure all of that is in the system documented that we we look at each one each year so that we at least know what all the things are and we can pass that from HR director to HR director. and we're almost done. We don't think there's anything big out there that you
have to worry about. >> Okay. >> It's worth looking at the practice though. Again, I know it wasn't successful, but it's it it has been used successfully in different scenarios, the opt out stipen. So, it may not make sense, but I would keep an open mind
about bringing that back in some form or fashion in the future if we think there might be a benefit to everyone. >> Is that why it was phased out? >> Someone made a call that just wasn't economically viable or is it just more arbit? >> I don't know why it was phased out. I
don't I don't think it had a lot of uptake. I don't know. I don't know. I would I remember the decision being made to put it in. I don't remember why it was phased out. I don't think there was a huge [snorts] It was probably more trouble than it was
worth would be my guess. I don't know. >> Yeah. I mean, anecdotally, our insurance is is expensive enough for if you're on it because you have to be, >> right? >> So, I don't think that incentive is going to allow a lot of people to opt out.
>> It wouldn't equalize what you know you can get in a private sector. >> And and I would say just internally that is my experience. Folks who >> join our insurance that's their only choice. Um, so there, you know, there's an argument that folks who can afford to
get that stipen get this extra bonus because they have the opportunity to get it elsewhere because it's more difficult for folks to even join Mass Health now, too. Um, so a lot of folks are being forced to join our insurance because they can't get it elsewhere anymore. Aubry's putting together an insurance
advisory committee, which is a formal investigation of insurance practices with a wide range of stakeholders in the town to talk about plan and other changes that we might we might consider or bring to you. It's complicated. There's unions involved, etc. But this
this might be a topic that's looked at. >> It's a statutory committee. It's not subject to OML, but what the committee will be doing is later this fall um presenting recommendations to the select board about plan changes. Um there are, you know, budget impacts to those, but
just looking what options there are to u for employees. >> Okay. >> And retirees actually. >> Okay. >> Are we ready for a vote on this then? >> Okay. Can I have a motion? >> We do it. I move to approve the
continuation of the $1,500 annual health insurance opt- out stipen for the current legacy recipient who has historically received the stipen until such time as the employee reciparates from town employment or enrolls in town health insurance and to confirm that this action does not reinstate or
establish a townwide health insurance opt out stipened program. >> Second that motion. >> Thank you. Any discussion or deliberation? No. Okay. Why don't we do a voice vote?
All in favor say I. >> I. I. >> Any no votes? >> Okay. Eyes have it. So moved. Okay. >> Thanks for bringing it up though. I mean, I know as we find these things, it's good to fix them and move on.
>> Absolutely. Thank you. >> As opposed to [laughter] >> No, that's not We don't do that. >> No, I know. Okay. Uh, we are running a few minutes early, but why don't we go ahead and move on to item number six, which is an
employee conflict of interest disclosure. And we have some potential votes there. Do we have Gretchen on the phone? >> No, I'm going to present it for you. >> Oh. Oh, okay. Excellent. Okay. >> I'll set both of these up for you and then uh we can have a discussion. So,
we'll take them one at a time. First, there there are no conflicts of interest. This is discussion of the disclosure for the potential of conflict of interest in case people are reading just the headline, right? We want to make sure uh that's clear. So, uh
Gretchen is currently teaching weekly tap and jazz classes for adults through the Council on Aging and Human Services. This was approved in December by the board, a another conflict of interest. Uh she wants to teach musical theater prep and was approached by uh Holly to
do this. Holly wants to offer this class and and Gretchen seemed a natural fit because of talent she has outside of outside of her current position. Uh it's not currently an option. So recreation is looking to add this option. And it is because of the success of the tap classes and other classes that that run
here at town hall and in other areas. In order for this to happen, the board has to consider this disclosure as a conflict of interest because Gretchen is paid by multiple departments in town. And anytime that that comes into play that the board must approve this
conflict of interest form identifying it. There there are reasons and scenarios where um an employee would have a conflict of interest in this particular area. It is not it's two completely separate departments but we have to tell you anyways and you have to be notified in case it does eventually become a
conflict of interest which we will protect it and not have that happen but it can so you need to know about it so you can monitor it. Okay. >> I mean the the conflict would be is if she created the position herself and then sort of self-nominated and there
was no um you know and then she is also uh is she teaching on her own time? >> I assume all this is not during work hours. And then um I assume the compensation is
comparable to whatever she would be you know somebody would be earning in this position. Correct. >> Correct. >> Uninflated. >> And then she's not out there trying to get everyone who walks into town hall to sign up for her t her class. Right. I mean that would be the >> it's not allowed.
>> She's not marketing her. Yeah. That those would be the conflicts that I could possibly spot, but I assume those aren't happening. Okay. >> Yeah, you were right on the right track there. if she was the one who created this program and then decided to fund it or recommended that it be funded, then then there's conflicts you can't gain
from your position in town. But that's that's been vetted here and is not happening. So, we're notifying you of this so you can do your due diligence on it. >> And this is for a like a fixed period of time. There's a theater performance at some point in the future and then at that point, you know, her engagement
will end or just goes on. she's this conflict would um allow her to do this until that program is no longer offered or it changed in a way that would create a different conflict. >> Okay. So, the uh rec department does like they'll do a six week thing and
then they'll turn over and have a break like for a month and then do another this would continue for that whole like two of those or three however many they make. >> Right. >> But as you can see tap is different than musical theater. So, we're bringing you
another form. So, we're being overly thorough to protect you and the employee. >> Okay. >> Is this required by law? >> What other questions do people have? >> We approved it before and I don't see a problem with it now.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. I haven't heard any complaints. [laughter] >> Okay. Do you want to go ahead and vote on it? >> Sure. >> Okay. Can we have a motion on this? >> Oh jeez. Okay. Let's see. Having
received a dis. >> You have to say I move anywhere in this. Oh, there it is. At the end. Having received a disclosure under general law chapter 268A. Is that thing a subsection >> section? Section 20D from a special
municipal employee who seeks to have a financial interest in a contract made by a municipal agency of this town and understanding that the special municipal employee participates in or has official responsibility for activities of the municipal agency that made the contract.
Semicolon I move to approve this exemption under section 20D regarding the financial interest identified by the special municipal employee. >> Second. [laughter] I think that's what we're trying to do here. >> Do you need to mention the employee or
not? >> That's the only thing in the motion just so it's clear. [snorts] >> I It's not mentioned in there. It's >> might matter to say what the title is at least because it's the is the title that you're making a special and municipal
employee rather than employee themselves. If that makes sense. >> I would just add Gretchen Gallamore to the end. identified by special municipal employee Gretchian Gall >> or that >> you want to make that? >> Yeah. So, I'm going to amend my motion to I move to approve this exemption under chapter 20D regarding the
financial interest identified by uh this the municipal employee Gretchen Gallammore. >> I second that motion. >> Thank you very much. >> And the amended motion. >> And the amend Yeah. Okay. Um let's go ahead and do a voice vote. All in favor
say I. I. Any no votes? Okay, the eyes have it. That was one of those where the motion is longer than the actual [laughter] deliberation. >> I need a little cheat sheet on all the different symbols and chapter subsection all those
>> I don't have that train. >> Okay. Okay. The next item on the agenda is same topic for Chief Sorrowos. >> Yes. And Chief Soros is here and I invite him to come up and talk to us. Chief Soros would like to would like to
hire an immediate family member, his his daughter Elizabeth as an EMT for the fire department. She has the qualifications and training to perform the job. Uh Chief Soros confirmed that Deputy Chief Fire Chief, sorry, Fire Chief Matt Vatec will be Elizabeth's
direct supervisor. The board must review the included disclosure of conflict of interest because the chief is making a decision that results in a financial interest for an immediate family member, which is the way it's written in the law. Under the conflict of interest, Mass General law 268A, enriching
immediate family is conflict that could affect the integrity of the services which the town may expect of the employee. The board's role is to determine if the financial interest is substantial or likely to affect services for the town. And we did consult with councel and assuming that all that was
just described in the background and in the motion is there and there's there are no conflicts identified then then this is allowed and and has been uh done in other towns but it is ultimately the select board's decision to sign this um
disclosure or not. >> Has it been done in our town too? >> And it has been done in our town. The chief has two daughters. >> [laughter] >> So last time the form wasn't signed but the chief did bring this to the select board and it was deliberated in the past. So um both were identified even
though we didn't go through the formality of this form which I think and Aubrey thinks is very important for the protection of the chief and the board and and the discussion about it. >> Before we get into the specific request, can I ask a procedural
HR question? Sure. because we do have in our HR policies the language that employ town employees are prohibited from um hiring, promoting, supervising or otherwise participating in the employment of their immediate family or
their spouse's immediate family. So my question is not for this particular case but in general if we do this or if we've done this um I want to make sure that we're in line with our policies and if we're not in line with our policies do
we need to amend our policy if we want to do this. So I'm not going to speak for the chief and and Aubrey can weigh here as well, but under the strong chief law, the execution of HR policy in the fire department is under the purview of the fire chief. So we have the strong chief
law. So, we have been working about how to mesh the town policies with the fire policies because they don't they don't always agree and under the strong chief law in most cases the HR fire department
policies would would prevail. But >> but I could I could also envision other parts of town where it may make sense to have a family member or somebody in some professional relationship. And is it is it my understanding under our
policy that's just not a possibility? >> Yeah, it does. I mean, this was before I updated, but it does say state, you know, prohibited from that hiring, promoting, supervising, or otherwise participating. Um, that is a select board decision. if that's something you
want to change. Um, my understanding is that that's not really the case in other departments. I think it's probably more common with a fire department because it is local. You want somebody in proximity. >> Um, you know, and I'm just speaking on HR terms. You know, objectively, she
would be uh qualified in this position. And it is an on call department. Um, it's not like it's it's taking the place of somebody else who would have otherwise been hired. And I'm just trying to keep this at a general level because it's it's um >> this isn't the only HR policy that we
don't >> right >> that you have that we don't follow. >> And I'm asking for the town side. I'm just we >> we air those two. [laughter] >> I'm just saying we we have our the our hiring policies. We don't post things on their wall that you say you would do. All those kinds of things because I'm
the hiring authority for the fire department. >> Just it's different. >> Okay. I just think it's worth us I know we've I I don't know when this I'm losing track of all the policies and we did we spent a lot of time on volunteers but it's a qu and it might be a case by case thing but I don't want to get in a
situation where for for town employees that >> we're doing a case by case >> right >> if we think we want to allow something like this in the future under our codes of conduct we should put that allowance in the policy and have a you know majority vote of the board a waiver can
be offered or something. >> And you'll be seeing me soon for the next version of the personnel policies, right? Okay. Making sure there's an annual review and update going forward. So, I think that that's definitely that something I can add and and bring up when I do those revisions. >> Okay. >> In this particular instance, the
document that Scott's talking about, we just approved eight days ago. >> That was the volunteer one >> code of conduct >> for the volunteers, not for staff. >> No, it was I thought it was all employees and volunteers. We went round and round like three revisions on this thing and then finally approved it and
um >> there was the volunteer code of conduct. Um but the personnel policies were approved in May. May >> it was right before that then. >> Yeah. So but but that the the review process starts now because that's what we did last year too. It took a year to finally get that
>> approved. A lengthy process. Yeah. >> Um so that's why you'll you will still see me soon even though it takes that long. >> Right. Right. Okay. But it is something to think about in terms of the policy because public safety, this is pretty common. >> Yeah. >> So it may happen there. The other place that may happen for you is the DPW.
>> So Gary Davis >> worked under his father and took over after his father. >> Yeah. >> And that's you know if you have you need somebody who can drive heavy equipment and you know that that may hap that could happen in that situation as well. >> And the schools have their own code
their own >> their own handbook. Correct. So the I'm looking at an excerpt from the section 10 standards of conduct that we just approved. That was the code of conduct and the wording is town employees are prohibited from. So it's
not volunteers. It really is employees. >> No, we approved the volunteer code of conduct. >> Yeah. Section 10. That wasn't updated. >> That wasn't in this version. Well, >> for the not the employees, but the volunteers to put a code of conduct in place.
Right. Okay. So, I'm looking at a document that maybe is older than eight weeks. >> This Yeah. >> Yeah. Most of the personnel policies were actually not updated. >> You know, the the I mean, I really wanted to get to the conflict of interest. Um the chief is here, so let's you know, you've you employed one daughter before. Were there ever any
complaints or any >> deterioration to morale? >> No. I mean, I'll be honest with you, it takes one time of they come and they complain about something. and you say, "Did you talk to this your you know your your commanding officer?" "No." "And why
are you talking to me?" That's the last time it comes. The last time you you hear it in the same in either direction because there's there's multiple lines of of, you know, she has an EMS coordinator and then she has a deputy chief.
>> Either one of them, you know, and up the chain before it gets to me and it's easy to fix, right? You just you just say it one time and they that's the last time you hear it, >> right? It's a small department. It's a small town. Yeah. >> I wouldn't want morale to take a hit because of this. If if
>> the MS coordinator or their uh deputy or your deputy officer were to come to you and say, "We've got a problem." How would you handle it? >> Um typically I would have them handle it >> and and whatever their >> You're at arms length the whole time.
>> Yeah. I may have uh a suggestion about how we handle things like that or who to go to or if they have you know whatever those kinds of things. So some counseling of them in terms of that but no they can make decisions [cough]
they do >> who there's no is there shift work or it's on call so you just kind of put out the call or >> Yes. Well, uh, so it's actually quite interesting the way we organize. I don't know anybody else that does it, but we we know who's available and we know who
what's needed for the call. So, we choose who goes on that call based on who's available. And yes, it happens based on timing and shift. And we also choose the officer on the call based on th those criteria. >> Um, I have myself listed as
for all the time periods. I only go when there's no other officer available and I do go >> and so there can be times we'd be on a call and I'd be the commanding officer for that call. That can happen. Um but I have it basically the goal is to be
training up all new officers and I want them to be getting as many calls as they can. So actually if any of them are available, they're the ones who who are commanding a call before me. >> Okay. But would there be a potential even the um
impression of favoritism in someone being delegated a plum assignment or you know it sounds like there's a computer algorithm that handles it based on what company you are in and what time of the day it is >> and I have very little to to do with
that. Um we do within so [snorts] within EMS we do rotate around um you know who who's driving who's leading the call and who's writing and that that rotates and it's not as in stone how that rotates.
You look at each other and say oh you led the last time so why don't I lead this time or whatever but that really handles what is handled within the crew and not really by the officer is that they look at each other and make sure that they're mixing it up. Okay.
>> While I understand um a family member is different in instances where the chief needed support, he has uh reached out and worked with Aubrey in order to to solve issues and myself. Um we've worked together on on difficult HR issues because they exist even in the fire
department. And if there was an employee who came to Arbor or I because of the relationship or difficulty, we would bring that to you immediately. >> Okay. And I would tell the chief as well we were doing so because it's how I operate. But um I'm not afraid to bring
that to you if there is a situation. >> I mean this situation is you have somebody who's in town, lives in town, [snorts] is fully qualified and her timing tends to be when we really need people and there she's a school teacher so she really has summers and and holidays >> you know is when she's really and that's
when everybody else leaves and we're sitting here. How do we staff this? Yeah. So, I'm not I guess I myself personally am not as concerned about how she got the job. I get it. She's qualified. That's, you know, that checks the box. It's from here on forward, how
do we avoid the uh, you know, even the impression of favoritism in scheduling, promotions, overtime assignments, whatever the issues may be within the fire department. Um, that's all I want to protect against. So that's so
>> I know you run a tight ship I'm sure. So >> well if I decide to promote her to lieutenant which is not really a possibility then I would be be back here. >> Okay >> that's that would be a different world. >> How about rest of the board members?
>> I'm supportive of it. I'm supportive and I I I put a a little sticky note next to that policy just to >> sure >> just to have a discussion is are there other areas of town this might be an issue that we should look at the policy about. I know we don't have time, but
it's helpful because it's the only time the five of us are together. But I if we as a board think that that's, you know, acceptable, we should talk about it at some point or if not right now just to kind of gauge a sense of what you think.
I mean to to me it's having a like in this case we're um we're making a motion to approve a particular legal thing. But if in the future we think we might want to allow for something outside of the hard and
fast policy word which in our policy for town employees is very strict. We should probably at least put a process by which we could do that. And maybe that's just inherent with the policy, but I don't know. Maybe it doesn't come up. Maybe it's not >> in I will say that
people in the town have been just very supportive of the fact that my daughter I mean, >> no, but I'm saying it's the culture that they want in the town. Right. >> So in that case, you may need to think about that in other cases where if it if it supports the culture you want in your
town that you need to might need to look at that. >> I was just going to ask like if there was some reason that we needed to vary from an existing policy anyway, wouldn't you bring that to us and we'd have that
discussion regardless? So isn't that inherent even if we haven't said it outright? Well, but if if the standard is we don't allow it, then generally people wouldn't apply or they just oh, it's not even a thing. It's more determined.
>> It became I mean that's why I was asking more of a policy question for the board just to say is this something that in our policies this board we might think and >> you know maybe we want to change the direction of that. Well, and and my thinking is not even to change the policy, but just you could even just put
something to say like waivers may be considered on a case-byase basis and require majority or supermajority approval of the select board. Something like that. So people say, "Oh, generally this isn't done." But in cases where it makes sense, the town's open to it. >> But again, I'm guessing this doesn't
come up too often. Um, but right now our policy for town employees is and I I respect the difference there, but if we're talking about a town employee, I don't even think they would get through the application process. >> Anyway, they would not,
>> right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Uh, so we have a >> I'd be happy on this one. Ah, having reviewed the particular matter and the financial interest of fire chief Brian
Soros hiring Elizabeth Soros, his daughter, I move to determine that the financial interest is not so substantial as to be deemed likely to affect the integrity of the services which the town may expect from Chief Soros. >> Second.
>> Any discussion or deliberation? No. Okay. Why don't we go ahead and do a voice vote? All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> Any no votes? >> No. Okay. So, the eyes have it. Thank you very much. And again, it was never the financial interest. It was all about
what is this? Let's make sure we make >> saw how little we get paid. You wouldn't [laughter] >> Exactly. >> That's funny. Okay. Yeah. I just was mainly concerned about here on forward. >> Yep. Thanks, Chief. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. Thanks for >> Are you staying for the next discussion? >> Yes. >> You don't need to be up front.
>> Okay. Okay. Item number seven on our agenda tonight. We're running just a few moments early, but why don't we go ahead and move on to the fire department building committee update. >> Yes, 105 road. Um
>> Greg Zerlo, my co-chair um is going to be signing on any minute. >> Oh, okay. We can handle something else. >> So I am not as well prepared to I put it in a pinch, but he would be signing on briefly. >> Sure. >> In communication. >> Okay. Okay. What do we have that will
just take a few moments? Um, review of warrants and minutes. >> Sure. >> Is that good? >> Yeah. You want to do the minutes? >> Let me Who's spelling my name?
>> We're all trying. >> AI. [laughter] AI bot. It's >> like there's too many vowels in there. I got to look it up every time. >> Okay. >> It is PDF 102. Thank you.
>> I'll write that down. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> The uh just take her her little name tag and just stick it on Gretchen's desk facing Gretchen [laughter] >> above the computer. >> It's the K Ah. That was I think the last
name was okay. It was Rebecca. That was not >> Oh, yeah. Okay. >> Okay. Uh, we have >> fast forwarded to item number 12, review of the warrants and the minutes. Um,
>> looking at the July 14th, 2026 minutes. Did everyone have a chance to review those? >> I did. I had uh one thing I just wanted to note on them. >> Okay. And that's um in this the minutes we're I think maybe Ryan can chime in
but we're using AI to kind of con do this and then we review them internally. I'm sorry. um however they are done I I think we've the town is trying you know is getting and I just wanted to point out um in the
process just to so that that we get these I think in a position that I would feel more comfortable there's one that said um in here just above uh procurement path municipal versus developer le it said the board leads strongly toward maintaining the more
controlled municipal project path And I don't know, I thought that was a a subjective, you know, the board leaning. We didn't have a vote on it. We didn't have and I I just think that the minutes I'd prefer to have, you know, I it is nice to have all this context, but just the facts and and then when there's a
vote, the vote, you know, rather than the subjective because that gets thrown in here and and we'll agree that these are our minutes going forward and if anyone ever goes back, they'll say, "Well, >> you were leaning forwardly leaning." I'd like to try and ask our
town to to or the people doing the minutes to take those to to look for those and try to take those out. >> Any sort of subjectivity? >> Subjectivity. >> Well, it's a municipal AI product, too. >> Is it? Yeah. >> So, I mean, you'd think any public body
that's using this to do minutes would want that's a pretty good feature like take the AI subjective language out. Um, >> right. But yeah, >> that's why I pointed it out. So, it's just a note to the >> Do you want to strike >> laugh and and also
>> take out all was it verbs or adverbs or >> Okay, that was it. I But I'm I'm otherwise I'm actually fine with that and >> Okay. >> Unless we want to take out that um >> that sentence, but >> Well, I would move to strike the sentence because I do feel like it is subjective. >> Which page was that, Travis?
>> Um on those minutes, it is page five of 11. >> Okay. said the board leans strongly toward maintaining the more controlled municipal project path with select board. I mean I you could just say select board member noted. I mean that's
that's you know what he did but not what collectively I don't think that's >> appropriate to >> that's right. >> So that was my comment. >> So strike that. >> Okay. >> Any other comments or edits to the
minutes? No. Okay. Can we get a motion around that? >> Um, once we find it or you will find it. >> We are on page 102. >> Move to approve the minutes of the July 14th, 2026 select board meeting as
presented in the packet or sorry or as amended in this meeting. >> I second that. >> Thank you. Let's do a voice vote. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any no votes? >> Okay. And I do I want to say appreciate
the minutes. I think this is always a a process. >> Yeah, >> there is an art and a science to it for sure. >> Okay, item number 12 is done. Eric, are we on board? No, >> Greg is logging on just now. >> Okay, >> he's joining us right now. >> Great. >> Can I since we're on minutes, can I
There were a couple committees I went to get caught up on and there's not like minutes posted for the last year, so I'm not going to call them out, but we do need to like push. I know we are, but I don't know if there's a, you know, for
committees that haven't posted minutes and some of these are are >> I'm guilty of that. >> Yeah. But it's I mean, we got to find a way to to get there with that because um there are some contentious issues and it's tough because like I'm trying to get caught up on stuff and I there's
nothing. So, um the more we can encourage committees to get minutes up the better. I don't know like free lollipops or something like [laughter] >> we're about six behind >> which what DPW facilities >> yeah but
>> August 5th hopefully we're gonna get >> do we want to do a quick liaison reports or are we still are we >> Greg is on okay >> on okay very good okay >> excellent okay why don't we hear fire department building committee update
So again, Eric Ballis, 105 mil farm road, co-chair of the fire station building renovation committee, >> and Brian Sars, fire chief. >> And online, we have Greg Zerlo, who is uh the co-chair, the other co-chair.
And it's all yours, Greg? >> Oh, very good. Good evening. >> Yep. So, um I I guess this is really our inaugural uh uh committee update as we step into the construction phase. Uh
we're we're almost in the construction phase. We're we're all getting ready. So, I'm going to give a highlevel uh overview uh of where we are and just kind of set the stage for actually future reporting. Ask of uh the select board, what you might need more from us
in the future, etc. But let me just touch on a general project uh update. Um next slide. I'd like to um I like to always remind us where we're heading, which is building that. Um that's our site plan. Uh next slide, our front
elevation. We've all seen this. Uh this was the last uh rendering that was issued uh out of the planning board uh planning board hearing. So, what I'll touch on uh next slide is uh just our overall what are we uh what do I want to
run through tonight? General project status, budget status, uh an upcoming decision uh or input from the board that we would like and just talk uh briefly about uh future uh future reporting and and and wrap up. Uh should take about uh
10 minutes. Um next slide. So on um you know project status, so contracts with design team, our OPM uh and contractor have all been signed uh fully executed. Permit drawings were issued uh last
week, early last week, I believe, or last week uh to the to the town. Uh we're assuming a four-week uh total turnaround. Um the the only significant item not included in [clears throat] this permit set uh we're playing a
little bit of catchup is uh the wetlands delineation, the expanded survey to address uh the well location that finally got resolved through the hearings and the town input and input from the D. Um we the design team is
playing catchup in issuing those drawings. We expect those drawings to be issued August 18th, which coincides roughly with the completion of the town's review period uh for the building permit application. So, we should be on
on track there. Um so, we saw at our last committee meeting a mobilization logistics plan. The chief had a chance to provide some initial comments. Uh we anticipate seeing another logistics plan at our next
meeting. This is one of those activities that the logistics plan will be constantly updated and we'll see it many times make sure that operations uh continue to run smoothly. Um and the [cough] I [clears throat] guess
the project uh the the real kickoff for the project is the the uh the notice to proceed um which we anticipate to coincide with the uh the completion of the building permit application. So right now um our our OPM CMS uh
architect the team is working to kind of get organized uh but the clock on the project and contracts uh will start with the issuance of uh the uh uh the notice to proceed on budget. Um the town meeting
allocation, you know, hasn't changed. That's that's our budget. Um, we're looking at a early draft of the budgeting document. Uh, actually I I noticed in in today's board's packet the
for the first time I saw what CMS is actually producing uh for another project uh for the for the fire station. Uh we're seeing a draft of that now being prepared. We're going back and forth just getting the line items right. Uh that's something that'll be readily
available for future um uh future reporting. We have one uh $11,000 ad uh an additional service from Tecton and Fuss and O'Neal uh that had to do with the wetlands delineation that wasn't
part of the original scope of work. The additional survey that wasn't part of the additional scope of work. Um it's a modest fee for what they're um uh what they're trying to accomplish. Uh but that was approved and that's what I was referring to earlier. It's going to be
issued shortly. Um we have um we have also uh just to be aware because you'll see it coming up in pending changes. It's a it's a big chunk. It's a $215,000 ad. I just want to say that um this
should not be viewed as an unexpected overrun. Prior to uh bidding, we intentionally reserve contingency for the design elements that were a product of the planning board public hearing
process. So, Tecton had provided a cost estimate to tell us exactly what they thought this work was going to entail. We will be issuing that formal documentation
to CDI, our contractor for pricing. Um, so basically what we have in front of us is a is a projected change order. Uh, and uh hopefully we've uh cost estimated it just right and
we're at or under under that budget. But that's something that's uh coming down the pike. Uh, but not unexpected for sure. Next slide. Um, okay. So, the upcoming decision on hammering verse blasting of ledge. It,
you know, we were we were asked uh if if there was a preference at the committee level and thought that it would be good to get the select board's uh input on that, but we're really not ready for that final input just yet. Not tonight. uh you know we'll be working with the
project team to uh get some comparison cost schedule neighborhood impacts. You know there are some things that we know about hammering ledge verse blasting ledge. Um hammering is expected in this project expected to take four to six
weeks. Blasting will take much less. Um, if blasting is selected, uh, there'll still likely be some hammering. You're not, it's not a complete tradeoff. Uh, blasting does need a little finetuning,
uh, with traditional hammering. Um, there there'll be a cost difference as I mentioned. Uh, blasting would carry some additional soft cost to us like uh, uh, pre-blast surveys of nearby properties. That would be part of it. um the savings
to the schedule. Could it actually save time in the overall construction schedule? I'm not certain. But but what it would do is uh definitely build in some float time in our schedule to assure you know project delivery. So, we
have to collect some data before we come back to you. And the timing is such that when they're up against the blasting or hammering activity, we'll be before you again uh to to check in and and share
the information uh andor recommendation at that point um on future reporting. So, you know, >> before we move on to that, before we move on to that though, Greg, can I just ask the ESC, maybe when we have this discussion again for hammering or
blasting, >> is there an environmental preference? >> Um, >> they both sound pretty invasive, but blasting sounds really invasive. >> They all have a set of negatives. So, how do how do you trade them off? think
the the audible impact of long duration hammering is one thing that's you know from a human perspective >> yes it can be very you know tedious so um >> blasting has a likelihood of of has a
higher likelihood of disturbing um underground structures further away >> so um I don't I don't think we're ready to provide a sort of a >> right when we have the discussion and we have a vote Maybe you guys if you have any >> we can talk a little bit more to that
>> if you want to have any color commentary around the decision making [clears throat] or maybe fold that into their statement of facts. >> I think I'd also like them to prepare >> um if there are nearby historical buildings that you know would the
vibration would cause some sort of >> impact or cracking or whatever to foundations. So >> yeah, >> just put that on the radar. >> Yes. Yeah. And Generally, anytime you blast, uh there'll always be a pre-ervey
to um it's it's it's it's pretty standard. Um so, anything that can remotely be affected, uh would be um uh would be included in that survey. >> Okay. >> Do we have >> But yes, we uh I think the the environmental impacts um yeah, we have
to think about this broadly uh especially if they're asking us uh for a preference. right now uh we uh you know the expectation is hammering um but there was an oh by the way you know we could actually choose to attack this differently so you know to be continued
>> I like your broadly comment I mean that's where all these different constituencies you know people and how the residents feel if there's going to be continued but if you can save cost or you know there just all those things and you're sounds like you're on top of that. Yeah, and it's I mean certainly
there's a there's the town has a long history of both, right? And [clears throat] the pros and cons. >> Just Greg or Eric, is there any additional information about about the amount of ledge we need to remove or is this just because I know there's some question about how much? And >> and that's part of what's going into
this is when they start taking trees out and they start seeing is is is what we have fissured rock or is it one big solid mount? >> So this isn't like, oh, we just found out there's a lot more ledge, so we should consider blasting. is just >> they know they're going to have to deal with some ledge and
>> right and there was a um you know we we vetted uh during the completion of design um how the ledge was calculated and what was carried in the specification as an overall volume and
um uh we made some modification to address um you know what we think is the full ledge from a cut and fill analysis with Fuss and O'Neal and Techn 's help. Um, but it is ledge and it is underground. So, um, but right now we
have no, um, um, there's no information for us to believe that we have more ledge than what's anticipated and budgeted for in the contract. >> That's good to know. >> I remember >> the contract is such that they've already specified based on volume how
much it's going to cost. So, it's not like, oh, we hit more the the costs are >> right. There's there's a unit cost above what is in the bid. >> Okay. >> So, >> exactly. And so, yes, the unit cost is important to get into the bid early on. That's common practice even in private
work. Um, so yeah, that we try to eliminate the surprises. Um, >> that's good. >> Always want to eliminate surprises. I know when we toured Westford, I did ask um it was Spec giving us the tour, right? Yeah. And he said, uh, I asked,
you know, what sort of unexpected, you know, cost schedule, what set you behind? He say, well, we spent a million dollars more blasting ledge than we thought. Whoa. So, apparently they had not assessed the situation properly. I don't know. Whatever the situation was in Westford. Okay.
>> You know, there's one thing I can say say to you all in earnest is that there will be surprises. >> Yeah. >> Uh, [laughter] that's construction. >> Okay. [snorts] But we will uh you know the the goal is uh mitigate them as uh
those issues come up and um and do it swiftly and I think we're heading in the right direction. Um so jumping to future reporting. So having seen what uh CMS has has done in the past for the town,
what I was imagining, this hasn't been discussed at the committee level in in any great detail. I'm just speaking um uh off the top of my head on this. Um if they produce a report that gives you an update on all that's going on, the
backup of the dollars, uh a critical path schedule, we can circulate those packets as information and then when the committee comes before you, we can talk at a high level on budget schedule and you know significant issues that are you
know before us. um and fill in any gaps and and and that's where that's where I'll I'll stop. Uh basically, you know, just share that with you, get some initial feedback uh on reporting and we could uh close and just be uh ready to
uh meet with you again with more detail. >> That sounds fine. I mean, we would want to see the written content as well. So circulate those in advance as a pre-eread and then um you know we'll have the discussion hopefully it's you know just how well you're on cost and on
schedule. >> Um >> what other sounds actually when it comes to the schedule line item you know sometimes at you know speaking to the board it would be just you know good use of everyone's time to say we're still on schedule and that's it. you know, I I we
want to know, are we uh do we have any risks of schedule or are we still on schedule? It's a it's binary sometimes. >> Usually there's a metric attached to those. I mean, I'm used to large aerospace projects where you have a number hopefully it's one, but it's not ever. >> Well, there's the float is one of the
important right how much float you have in the schedule. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, we we would want to see the numbers just so pre-ocialized, but maybe the discussion is short. Um, and as for periodicity, is quarterly okay with folks? It's a big project important to the town.
>> I mean, I can also work with you guys. I'll be going to the meetings and figure out what the right milestones are because it might be quarterly. It might be based on a certain milestone. >> If blasting's coming up, that may make more sense. So, >> some of it I can report through a
liazison report. Some of it we can say, "Hey, we really should get fire station on the agenda in two weeks. They need a half hour and I think kind of we can feel it out. >> I don't think it's going to be a set cadence. >> Okay. >> I think that's how we worked with the DPW. We left it to
>> determined by that. >> Right. Right. Did you know as kind of needed and [clears throat] >> there's a couple you know >> so right right now you have one project going on. Hopefully it ends soon and then um you'll have three starting up.
So two in earnest library and fire approved and then DPW is is headed towards a decision in in the spring and in a design process. So tonight was also a test to see how much information do you do you want need like you've already talked about the cadence. I've been
providing the updates in my report but I didn't want you to think we're summarizing these four major projects in just two lines. So the um it's not necessarily a question to answer tonight, but but how engaged do you want to be in these projects? How informed do you want to be? What what do
you want from your committees and myself? Uh would be helpful so that you're never saying to us, well, I wish you know going on with that project. We don't want that because we know how important this is and how many people you've talked to. >> Also, I'd just like to say your
committees, your police station committee has been excellent. The fire station committee is is top-notch. They they've been all over this. Very detailed. Um library is too, but that's a little bit out of out of your purview, right? And DPW is just getting started. So, um we've been very lucky with our
committees. >> I tend to think the same. I mean, the people I've worked with on all these committees are really, you know, dedicated and and very knowledgeable, and I feel that way tonight. I mean, I I get the sense that, you know, you're doing your work and, you know, you're making decisions on behalf of really on
behalf of the town, but but you're, you know, you're doing it judiciously and thoughtfully, and that's what we want. I for me, it's just helpful to kind of give this overview and if there are any major decision points or something like that, then, you know, we can weigh in if you would like that. But that I
generally would choose to delegate to those. Yes. I mean, I think that I mean, we would come to you with a recommendation, you know, but with the pros and cons, but there are some some decisions that would be above our pay grade, so to speak. >> Well, it's good to be in the loop on those >> or at least be in the loop. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> What do others think? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, I again, the meetings I've attended, um, super detailed. They they're going to make a better decision than we would probably make based on a, you know, a 15-minute discussion. But I think it's important to go to those and hear because as things pop up and
there's trade-offs that need to be made, that's it's helpful to be able to say, "Hey, this is maybe one we should get some outside perspective on." So, I think it's really just stay in the loop and then we can I can shoot you guys potential agenda items or
questions that the select board needs to chime in on. >> Generally, if there's ever a problem, it seems to percolate up anyway. We hear about it. Well, you you know, but to to the point of if there is something that needs, you know, the surprise comes along and you make a change that you think is the right decision,
>> you know, it's in some cases it may be wait a minute like >> before you go ahead with that, we really should get a second set of eyes. So that's really all it is, but I think nine times out of 10, if not more, we would probably support your recommendation just based on your experience. >> Right. [clears throat] So I'd like to
just uh add one more thing which is I think that the the the membership of the committee is such that we have a broad range of experience in a in several different dimensions that has really helped the whole process and I mean you you've seen some of the results of that. Um I just want to say that
>> it's it's a good constitution of a committee >> strong committee. >> It is a strong >> great we're going to have more projects. [laughter] >> Great. Did is that Go ahead. No, just on a more micro level, just so you know, very soon we'll start seeing some tree clear tree clearing. They're eager to
get a well in because they need the well to get a building permit. Once they get a building permit, then the clock starts for them. >> Okay. >> And so then you got 15 months to to do this. Um they're talking about working on foundations in September. So just people keep on asking what's kind of the
cadence. There's your cadence. >> Yeah. and your mobilization plan meaning how you're going to continue operations. >> That's a part of it. >> You obviously we didn't get into that but you're feeling good about that and any >> Yeah. So there was the the architect
came up with a lot of stages and the builder said okay so stage one we take the whole thing. So we had some discussions about that and I think we're we should be in an okay place. >> Okay. Is that the input that you were looking for?
>> That is uh that's great for tonight. Thank you. >> Okay. [laughter] And so at >> at this juncture, you say the next time we can expect to see you is um what was the turn of events then after the report comes in? >> We would want to see you within uh in
this case on the hammering um verse blasting. Uh it'll take us a couple weeks to get that info together. So um you know three weeks out we'll be prepared I believe um on the on the outside. So probably see you within four
weeks. >> Great. >> I'm not sure the select board cadence of meetings but >> every two weeks >> every two weeks >> I'll second >> every two weeks. >> August 25th would be the would be that meeting >> would be uh the best opportunity I think. >> Okay. Okay. And we'll check with the
with the project team uh you know just knowing when the building permit is likely to be issued and then mobilizing for that activity after some of the initial clearing and uh and uh mobilization work is done. I'm thinking we're fine and seeing you in two
meetings. That might uh if there's a need to push that up, we'll we'll reach out. >> Great. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Super. Thanks for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Eric. How many committees you on now? >> All of them. [laughter]
>> We only added one tonight. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And we are on schedule. Item number eight is land use strategy objectives and process. Okay.
What is Ryan? You want to set this one up for us? Uh yes, thank you. So this is a continuation of a discussion we had last time. You had you had mentioned as a board wanting to to get a hold of of
what is of a very large project in a very large discussion. So we thought we'd put together a few notes. I'm joined tonight by by Sarah who has been staffing the LSC and helping with a lot of coordination of of these land discussions. So, if you just give me a
second, I'm getting to my >> Welcome Sarah, by the way. Appreciate you joining us. >> Hi, everyone. >> Okay. To give the conversation, which is uh really large, some structure. I've just put together a couple notes that
I'll go over with you here. Stop me at any time and then the conversation can of course go in any direction you want. So first the the select board's role in this process statutoily you have you have a leadership role you have many roles in this process but you you are the appointing authority for the
conservation commission and the LSC. So the people you appoint will be the ones stewarding stewarding this process and I didn't choose that word on purpose but >> stewarding the land and then through me directing the staff to support support those functions. So um considering your
role as the appointing authority and how that will will come to be as you make future appointments. So although the consom controls the land and and owns the land and maybe decides the policies and the stewardship, you decide the people that are going to do that. So you
play a big role in this. And then also you assign resources. And what I would like to to talk about a little bit is there are a lot of decisions being made that require a lot of resources. whether that's staffing for the various projects or the capital investments that that
would be required. And because it's conservation land, um we sent a memo to you from the staff talking about how approaches to conservation land have changed over the the last 50 years. So it might have seemed to be um just normal practice to buy a piece of land
and let it do what it's going to do or to consider that agriculture will always be a part of the Carile community as it has always been. Like [snorts] uh great example is the cranberry bog. You bought it as a cranberry bog. The town might have assumed that it was going to be a cranberry bog forever. And when those
change, so does the the nature of how you have to take care of that land. So it can go from passive to aggressive pretty quickly depending depending on what you need. And then of course ecology has changed. Uh approaches to the environment have changed in the last 50 years. And all of this requires
resources and deliberation. So there will be a lot of things coming at at me and you in terms of budget requests and staffing requests. And I'd like to get an idea of how you want me and others to manage that. and the we had a great conversation with the LSC last week
about how the staff can help manage the the LSC's work, right? And and while we were having that discussion, I was thinking, how does this impact the budget? How would the select board react to, you know, um increasing land management budgets or the investments in
capital that are coming? So, um I think I think that's important for you to get involved in early because once all of the community conversations have happened and discussions have happened, it's pretty baked and then it's it's been then it becomes kind of a conflict over a set direction that may not be
funded. So, I'll pause there in the role like the the role of the select board just if you don't have to, but if you have any thoughts or guidance on that, you know, we would love to hear that or talk about a process to to help develop that idea.
>> You know, we have a regular cadence of plans that come out, right? And we our normal method of taking care of this in town is to you know staff it with a bunch of volunteers and led by a staff person and
then update a plan and then go execute on the plan. And I'm thinking here of the master plan, the open space and recreation plan. And I feel like, you know, that would be I think a good approach here is to lead
um you know an update um of both of those plans and then you know the the master plan is 5 years in. We're celebrating the five-year anniversary um which feels like a logical point to sort of take stock and say you know however we've been doing against
implementation. Um and in doing so that that exercise has value right you can you know see Is it still the plan to be a cranberry bog? You know, what needs to happen to maintain that or do we want to turn it into a, you know, it's turning into a
maple grove where whether we want it to or not right now? I don't know if you guys have been over there recently. Um, but do we want to spend any more money on dams when it's not going to be a cranberry bog, right? So I think there there probably should be um you know the town as a whole coming together to take
a look at all these pieces of land and say is this really still the intent and how are we executing against what we said our plan was. How do we feel about that? What other thoughts? >> My my my challenge is all you know we we
see individual issues pop up around specific parcels and it's like and we're sometimes playing mediator, sometimes trying to make a decision. Do you support this in a budget capacity? Do you support this in a priority? And frankly, I have no idea. I don't know.
Trying to look at these things on a reactive parcel by parcel basis is difficult because you don't know should we, you know, should we support investing in the cranberry bog dams? What's the plan? And if the plan hasn't been updated or if we don't have a the
to use an appropriate term, if we can't see the forest, how can we, you know, how can we evaluate the um the individual issues? So, from a select board standpoint, what I'd like to have is something that I could refer back to to say, yes, like the master
plan, this is in line with our goals, and this particular parcel, and maybe not every every little detail is mapped out, but feeds this overall goal. Yeah, we should support this because we're moving in this direction and that moves us in that direction. Um, and and there is a plan in place, but it's outdated
and it's, you know, I think for me to support individual investment and changes and use in parcels, I would need to see the updated plan and understand how that fits in the bigger picture. Uh, because there's a lot of potential money out there to be spent >> and prioritization to be made.
>> Technically, all of our plans are current. I looked on online and man, we have a lot of plans, right? The master plan is a 20-year plan. It's meant to be a 20-year plan, but the recommendation was that there's an implementation committee. We opted not to do that for whatever reason. So, now we just need to
do, you know, stand up some sort of committee to do like a five-year relook is to, you know, are we on path? Are we a quarter of the way through the goals that we said? And then the open space and recreation plan, I think that's not due now until 2030 or whatever it was, right? But there's no reason we couldn't
put forward a, you know, midpoint, you know, inventory of how we're doing. >> I don't think it's up for I feel like I resonate with what Scott saying is [clears throat] that it's it's not up to one board to say um you know,
well, you want us to have an approach, stand up a process. You're not looking for specific budget. You're not looking. >> Yeah, I think that you're talking about and I I tend to agree. I mean, it's important we're going to go parcel by parcel and think and get a really detailed, but we should start with some
more macro plan of each of the like if you can say this is what it's been used for and this is is that what you're referring to? >> Yeah. Like how does how does a like so for examp this is a hypothetical like say okay we really want to invest in dams in the cranberry bog, right? and
it's going to be $4 million in dam work. Well, that that's where your that's where we're spending our money in conservation is in the cranberry bog. You have to know what your overall portfolio pro par parcels is and what your other potential just like the
capital plan like we need to know um what the entire not to use another word landscape looks like [laughter] um fire >> you know because I feel like when we when we as a select board member when I see things it's like this parcel or that and it's like I don't have any idea how
to assess whether it should be uh continue agriculture or this and if there should be changer. Should we invest here or here? I I don't have that perspective and I don't know and I think we need to get that perspective either through an updated plan or or the work
that conservation and LSC do. We need to understand what's the priority for investment for resource for usage. What usage should change? What should stay the same? And I know we have a plan, but I don't know that people feel like it's up to date or current. >> Which plan you're talking about?
>> Like land use plan. We do open space and recreation plan and it was beautifully done I have to say. >> So that's the umbrella plan. Each each parcel has some type of land management plan but they're they're 20 years old. >> Yeah.
>> The the open space plan dates from 20 21 I think. And now apparently it was supposed to be updated starting in next year but we got a three-year extension. So now it's not due until you know 2030 or so. So um but
you know I actually kind of think seven years was kind of a good periodicity for that one. We because we could use the exercise now there is value in the exercise the town coming together people weighing in on what exactly they want to have done. But you're asking us for a framework and then you know assigning
resources. Um, >> so when we had uh talking about long-term management strategy, Sarah and I devised a um public forum and the consom picked and I'm kind of
being funny on purpose, but a non-controversial piece of land to start a process of >> reviewing the past, >> going through the documents and the purpose that was stated originally, where it's gone, and then get input from the community as to what they'd like to see keep the same change or how they
would like to use and it was very well attended. It was every bit of the two hours that we had we had allotted for it and the people who went were very passionate about right >> the use but one of the things that came out of that was what you're talking about is that there
needs to be a conversation about the portfolio of land. So anything that was agriculturally controlled, if there isn't a farmer to succeed that that agricultural use, it's going to change quickly its purpose. And
agricultural land is a way that small towns manage the cost of owning land. You own a lot of land, thousand acres or so. Um, so if you do have say X percentage agricultural, X for passive recreation, if you were to create that strategy,
which I suggest that you do, you also have to think what happens if there are no more farmers to farm it. And a great example is Farmer Duffy, who's done tremendous things for this town. He um has a lot of the land tied up into the operation of of his business, right? And
that's that's good. It's been good for the town. It helps us manage the land. But if if that was to no longer be a business, then that would be a lot of land that immediately falls out of use, >> right? >> So, I'm not saying that's going to happen or anything like that, but much like employee planning, there should be
succession planning for the land. Um, and then of course, any of these decisions need to be connected to your budget process and then your staffing process. So, if you were to develop a land management plan that was aggressive, you would need more staff. And I and I think
um we would need to talk about that. And one of the things that we did talk about in some of our meetings is do we add a DPW worker who could replace some of the the contracts for for mowing etc. It would be a capital investment. But I'm not saying we should or shouldn't do that but if we had a picture of
everything that we were required to do that might be the cheapest opt option or best option versus a contract. So, um, that's what I mean about this long-term strategy and approach from your from your perspective, >> but the conservation commission,
>> it's their it's their responsibility to make that plan, correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Well, they own the land. I guess you could own land and not have a plan, but that's not a good idea. >> And that's where some of the confusion. You're saying you should they're looking at us. You we should make a long-term
plan. And and then I say, well, isn't that the Conservation Commission's role. Um, and do they agree with that? Do they not agree with that? Is that a priority for them? If not, what do we do? I mean, we can't deappoint people. I mean, we're appointing authority, but we
don't have jurisdiction on this. >> But when you appoint them, do you >> we budget? But >> well, and we're trying to I think biggest picture help set the priorities of the town or at least we're we're doing that. And that's what this is seemingly is becoming is a major
priority for I mean it's certainly one of we haven't voted on our goals but you know one of our goals this year and and so I think we got to take it on. >> Yeah. >> In some capacity. Do you you want to you you're saying oh we can just push it to the consom.
>> No. Well I don't think push it is the right word because it's their responsibility but um >> but you know >> take ownership. take ownership and I I guess the simple thing is there is no budget unless there's a plan and the due
diligence to support that budget. So like as we sit here now we have all these plans, all these lookouts, all these investments required for town building infrastructure, operating budget, I'm not aware of a of a land investment
budget like that lays out what we think is needed in all the different parcels in terms of investment. So like we we we talk about the dams at the cranberry bog. I haven't seen anything in any capital plan about what that looks like when that is. Um and I guess my thing is
without a plan there is no money. Like you have to you and if to me if you come with an ad hoc well we got to invest this in the cranberry box I would say well how does this fit in the larger plan and if there's no larger plan well >> but that's not what happened. Didn't we just last year vote in some dollars for the dam repair and spent quite a lot of
money on that? Yeah >> it was a couple years ago now. a couple years ago. Now, >> the problem with the dam is the design of the, as you remember from the public discussion about it, the design of the dam will eventually influence the land's use. So, you need the right dam for the
right use. And um the design that was was floated, I'm trying not to use all the words discussion, [laughter] it's hard, the design that was discussed did not necessarily match some of the uses of the abutters, etc., which is why you had that that polit that political
conflict, >> right? >> Um so the really what I I think needs to be decided first is the use of the land and then the infrastructure makes sense. >> Exactly. >> And that that's the hardest part is to get agreement on on any future future
direction. >> So I don't I do think it's the conservation's land. This isn't your area. But um one of the things we're suggesting is meeting with the stakeholders because if you like like I get to do a lot which is a privilege meet with a lot of the stakeholders. They all have very different plans and
they do have plans. They're just not town coordinated plans. So they might go ahead with their plan and they're doing a great job executing it and eventually these plans collide. And if you understood everybody's plan and intention then um you would remove silos, right? sounds a lot like staffing
and and create a unified plan. >> And >> so Sarah, >> was it is it is the intent then when you say get the stakeholders together to have a forum like what was what you hosted for Fox Hill and do that parcel
by parcel or or how did we want to structure those discussions? So Sarah and I received some some resistance on that idea because to do it for 30 something >> that's very time consuming. Yeah. >> Is a lot. But we did want to test it. Sarah did a great job putting it
together and managing the conversation and it became clear to us that this is even bigger passion project than we thought. >> Yeah. >> So maybe we combine five pieces of land into one forum and and knock those out or whatever. But the the community input is really supposed
to feed you the conscom the finance committee on you know actual information because one of the issues you had when these discussions came around to you was you didn't understand you know what the community thought about it and you wanted that input. So we were kind of trying to show you what that looks like
and it's it's it's cumbersome. >> It is. Yeah. But you saw with the adcom coming to you, they they described their process as being a little bit reactive. So that when they found um a threat to threat's the wrong word, but a challenge
to agriculture, they found it to be their role to to come in and advocate for that. The problem is is that's not a proactive approach. It's not it's not a planned approach. So they talked about having one, right? And they were going to bring that back to you. If Trails did
that, LSC, all the different land users did that and you had that conversation, we think it would help. So that's what we mean by meet with all the stakeholders. >> Okay. >> What's your bigger plan? How does it match everyone else's plan? Have you talked to the other people to make sure that these aren't siloed plans?
>> What does that look like? I mean, is that a dedicated three nights like with Select Board, Conscom, LSC, Fincom? >> I know it's everyone. It's Trails. It's, you know, you name it.
>> Tactically, how do you get everybody in the room um and move the thing forward given how complicated and broad it is? That's what I struggle with is like where do you how do you wrestle this
thing? >> So the uh recommendations that we have is to have at least that initial discussion with each one of these land use boards. Do you have a plan? What's your plan? How would you make a plan? And I think it would be illuminating to you who does and does not have a plan.
And some people have very specific targeted plans and some people don't have any >> for all parcels. Not just in general >> like we heard from adcom last meeting, right? They don't have a plan. They were they are they're just going. >> Would this be something that we could
survey in writing like for at first? >> Can we read the plan? >> Like ask them to email us like the each parcel like what they have their plate. >> I think you might hear five different plans from five different people on and if it's not a plan until it's been voted on and it's written down. So can we get
a copy of the plans? from each of the committee, right? If that's the concern that each >> there's committee has different interests >> and has different plans. If we ask them like do we have to have a meeting first versus have them email it to kind of give a sense if there is conflict if
there's competing interest so that we can like if only one group has a plan for a certain parcel you know like or >> maybe that one's low hanging fruit and put that that to the side so we can focus on the ones where it's like everybody >> three different uses for Bant Davis and
Right. Um >> so then you have two planning processes that are currently in place. Your open space and recreation plan and your master plan. Um both of them are lacking like in every community in Massachusetts and and North America um implementation.
>> So your focus could be to force the implementation of the recommendations in those plans in order to get funding or resources. That that's your primary lever. And then you have you have the power of
staff. So staffing certain initiatives will get things will get things done as you know. >> Yeah. >> I didn't expect to have a plan come from tonight but the discussion that we had the last time was well what is the scope
and I think I think this is the >> this is the issue. >> You've set the boundaries um and you're looking for some guidance and direction from us. Well, LSC and Conscom should be on this like they need to get on the same page and they should have a plan. >> Well, like that. I mean, but those are
two big constituents. One is a subcommittee of the other. So, like they shouldn't be on two different >> wavelengths. >> Well, it sounds like they're they're now more aligned, >> right? >> Yeah. But I mean, I think that's the I mean, you have other uses, but that's
the the biggest and they're ultimately have the decision-making authority, not the budget authority, but it's their land. So, I'm being slightly tongue-in-cheek, but we we had a conversation about supporting staff supporting LSC
function, and one of the things that came up was who was going to cut the branches around the edges of the the piece of property. And my question is what are we doing on that property that would require the cutting of the branches? And in in the volunteers's
mind that was very obvious why you would cut the branches because there is a use that is intended. Now that use if agreed upon is a perfectly legitimate use, but the cutting of the branches is going to be an annual thing that's going to require staffing and money. So the idea
that everybody supports the plan where there's the cutting of the branches I think is important, >> right? >> Otherwise, we're getting things peacemail too. Is staff mowing this? Is >> is this invasive being pulled? Are we putting in a grant for this particular
project? And if you ask me, is it can I do all those things? Yes. Is it coordinated? No. >> No, not coordinated. Right. That's what you're asking. Um Sarah, do we have management plans for all of our parcels? Are they up to date?
>> Not for all of them. I would say there's probably about 10 management plans. Um between 10 and 12. >> 30. >> Yes. So um there's a good number and also there's two different types of
documents that were prepared over the years. One is called a baseline assessment and one is a management plan. Um so some properties have both some properties only have one or the other of those that have been addressed um over
the years. They are um on the town website I've put together this table that you can see which ones have it. Um but it's mostly like what you would consider the big ones. Foss go. Um Foxhill was actually the first one
that got um a management plan and um I think the most recent one would have been Benfield. Um so there is not a current plan for every single property. Um and there is also I think property
may be a better or more accurate term just because some properties are actually multiple parcels. um we had to have that whole discussion as staff as well to make sure we knew exactly what we meant. But um yes, so I would say between 10
and 12, I don't know the exact off the top of my head, have um have management plans or some sort of document um created by the LSC over the last 20 years. >> So a question Sarah, so in Ryan's example where the town's getting peace
meal requests, is that information in those plans? Like if if someone just went into the management plans and rolled up all the maintenance requirements, you would have a an overall maintenance plan. Or is that information not necessarily in the management plan that says trim the trees
every six months or every two years? >> It it varies from plan to plan. Um, I would say most of them were done from a broader perspective and less about some of the things you've
been talking about, you know, like the yearly maintenance and what will require capital versus volunteers. Um, and different approaches to implementation have been taken over time, mostly um, by the land stewardship committee because they were the group creating these
plans. Um, so I would say they're not really referenced or I haven't seen them be referenced um in making decisions, but they are very helpful because they bring together a lot of the history. Oh, perfect. Yes. Um, they bring together a
lot of the, you know, background on the properties. Um, so that's how we've been referencing them as of late is just because there are some of these properties, you know, it took years and years to acquire and the paper trail is
just very extensive. So the assessments have been helpful for that. But um, I would say the management plans um, yeah, in in my experience, I'm sure they were and have been used over the years. I mean, I'm relatively new to to looking
through all of these and this whole process, but um >> would it be feasible? >> Yeah, I would say they're more on the broad side. >> So, it sounds like they're all kind of their own thing. Would it be feasible to come up with a a summary template with like basic information we need for each parcel like maintenance, whatever the
line items are that would be helpful to the town, maintenance, purpose, you know, whatever that like one sheet, two sheet that we could then populate using these existing plans, identify
gaps and and try to at least have a a universal >> document that that we could just say, okay, We don't know what this needs or we don't have this answer. Let's but maybe we need some kind of universal just and I don't mean like a full 30-page document for each. No, but there there
should be a short template that calls out all the relevant fields like what are the resources required to maintain this land >> or at least the fields we want to know as a select board and we can say fill these out like >> certainly if I don't know if the ESC gets involved in these but or maybe com is already all over it but you know what
are the endangered species or the protected species at each you know piece of land all of that ought to be captured as well right but certainly what our interest is >> no seriously put the plans in AI and That's right. That's a great idea. I I'm looking at these dates. These haven't
been updated. Foss Farm is pretty It's very heavily used and it's not been updated since 2014. >> And I know a lot has changed since 2014. Anyway, so I'm looking at the time here. We only have a few minutes left on this agenda topic. Let's let's get to a path
forward and some next steps. The recommendations were to meet with all the stakeholders. I think that's a good idea with the idea of, you know, updating our open space recreation plan was a recommendation and assigning master plan recommendations. I do think
both of those could stand an update. Um I, you know, and then as for staffing, I would look to staff to moderate some of those discussions, right? I mean, keep them on the straight and narrow. um
is this and I think as part of that when the community comes together to rewrite those or update those plans you get some silos coming down. Um, you know, I think in the meantime, Ryan, these,
you know, one-off decisions come to you and people are looking for resources. Right now, this is maybe not a realistic position because we don't have updated plans and they've not been tied to resources. But eventually the answer will be if it's not in the plan, it's not getting funded. Were you gonna say
something, Travis? >> No, I'm listening. I >> Oh, I thought I can say something if you want. Um I actually Scott I like your idea there and I don't know I mean as far as feasibility and stuff but is that is that like a helpful thing do you think
if we had a but I I would think even at the high level people are going to be I don't know challenged on a lot of challenging some of the assumptions that are even in the high level summary but maybe I'm wrong but maybe that is a good place to start
>> um with this and then It's from >> reminiscent of what you would require from the police department to receive a budget. >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> So >> where has the planning board been any of this? Do they just they just are handling residential or
[clears throat] they have >> Yeah. >> for town land? They >> You're right. And this is a conscom function. >> This Okay. >> Informed by many of the other interest boards that you've put together >> and Sarah's been the lead from a staff standpoint. like what's the roles between Sarah and Megan from a staff
standpoint in this effort? >> All right. So, we um hired Megan to transition to bridge from Sylvia to to to a future conservation administration. So, she's been focused a lot on helping
the consom um organizing, digitizing, and and focusing on the the day-to-day management of of conservation. Sarah was assigned with her expertise and and in her role as sustainability coordinator to support this function which is the
investigation and assistance in land use which could be its own person um easily. um long term there's some type of plan and path where you know maybe that land use assistant goes goes somewhere else but this is a multi-year investment so
we putting Sarah there was important u but when boards consider staff support sometimes they think about minutes and agendas and that other thing and and as you can see here there's a lot of work that's necessary some expertise >> so when we went to talk to consom and
LSC about the charter we were pretty forceful about staff serving in a certain certain function and not being used for minutes and agendas which you saw tonight can also cause a problem with the backlog of minutes and agendas, right? But we we have marching orders from you and the fincom to make sure
that we're maximizing and making efficient staff. So until directed otherwise, that's that's where we're going. Um that that is where staffing is right now with conservation. From a planning standpoint though, is all the inertia coming from Sarah's work
or is is conservation have this as a priority that the conscom do they have dedicated uh committee members assisting Sarah like or are we just trying to kickstart all that? >> So the way I see it, the conservation is
the the manager of the property. They own the property and they created the LSC to execute their vision. So what happened what can happen with the LSC is if there is no specific vision then they can kind of do their own which cause which caused some
problems. So the best thing to do would be to agree on the vision and then send out the execution. However like stuff grows and needs to be mowed and stuff like that. So the LSC is balancing >> like the actual physical management, day-to-day management of the land with
this idea of developing the future, which is why we put the staff resource there to try to help get ahead. But you don't see in any of these notes or anything like what you should or should not do with the land. It's how can we help you figure that out. [snorts] >> But that's Sarah, the staff, the
>> I mean we have thoughts on how you should use it, but that's not our call. So, >> well, she's done a lot of great work on the grant side and climate ESC and all those things. So, you got to balance her time as well. >> Yes. >> And your number one
land issue is the cranberry bug. You know, you've heard me say that before, >> right? like getting a decision on that piece of property, although I think that's a master's class in public administration on its own, is vital because of the cost of that property and its interest to the residents.
>> And that's been in limbo for >> decades. >> At least a decade. >> At least a decade. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> When is Conscom going to come in and see us? >> Hopefully soon. >> Yeah. That'd be our next big conversation, right? I mean, >> they're on board with this and they're
awesome. like they're trying they're trying to tackle this too, but they also have notice of intents and other things that they have to follow. >> They have a lot of day-to-day stuffs. >> So, I'm looking at your recommendations here, Ryan. We're just a little bit over on our agenda time. So, meet with all
the stakeholders. Yeah, I mean, set it up. I don't know. That's that could be a very lengthy process. And then updating the open space and recreation plan. I think, you know, Gretchen mentioned that Mary Zol came in and said, "Put me to work. It's time to update the plan." And
it is. So, I I mean, I would love to spin up a committee to get that um updated with town staff moderating. Um and then assigning master plan recommendations. I'm not sure what that means exactly. What I'm thinking of is
moving forward on the implementation, right? or doing an inventory first off to see how much we've actually executed against already and then are we a quarter of the way there and then building consensus for shared files permitting and staffing. Absolutely. I mean all of our town
resources should be shared. >> Yeah, Scott, you said throw it in AI and I agree with you, but we need to get it out of the the file and into the computer so that we can do that. We're we're in 1980. >> A robot to go get the file.
>> It's not it's not like a personal mission of mine. It's to feed that idea that >> meaning they're not even digitized. >> They're not digitized. >> So they clearly haven't been updated in a while. If it's on part, >> there was one in there that was 2007. So
>> um >> and then still I mean so who updates these management plans? Wasn't that LSC to put those together? Yeah. So hopefully they're executing it on those. >> You would consider getting the right people on the LSC to
want to do that. You need [snorts] the right type of volunteer who would want to do long-term management because there are people and I would probably one of them that want to go out and take the sticks that the beavers keep putting in our coverts out and allow things to flow
and manage the land. And then there are people who are interested in, you know, 20 year plans. So if you have an LSC full of doers, that's great, but you're not going to have the planning. And vice versa. If you just have the planners, you're not going to have the mowers and the stick removers. And
>> yeah, there's different kinds of volunteers for sure. >> That really is your role to make sure you have that mix. >> Well, we're not appointing LSC. >> You do. >> We do. >> We do. I thought we appointed Conscom and they appointed LSC. You appoint
anything that you appoint. So any child of one of your children is an appointee of yours. >> Okay. >> Okay. So what do we want to do tonight, guys? >> Let's get Conscom on the schedule. >> Y
>> um >> did you get enough direction or is this not is this just the starting point for this this there's no real direction? >> Trying to add structure to the conversation that's all. So I feel like that was accomplished tonight. Okay. So, there's nothing more you need from us at this point.
>> No, except getting some of this stuff on your agenda and attacking it piece by piece. But it is fair to say if you look at every other aspect of our town government that requires budget and dollars, we are moving towards a plan for all these big investments. So, if if
investment is going to be required in land use, there will need to be a plan. >> It's just like the capital budget. just like I mean >> Brian came in did a magnificent job of putting I think of putting that together with the team and everything and and making sure we move towards a place where everybody knows we got to get on
the plan if we're going to be funded and at least that's the effort to to do that. I think we need something like that with this land management. It's the same type of thing is looking at that saying here are all the pieces. I mean, you already laid it out in your summary, >> you know, and what it's going to cost
and these are the decisions >> and where as a town are we going to put our investment in money and resource, where should it go and where is it not going to go? And so I >> yeah, >> I think that's the general message is for if you want long-term funding, you
need a plan. >> So yeah, the it needs to be tied to the budget process for sure. Ryan, you have a a bullet in here about balance, volunteer and staff recruitment and time. [clears throat] Tell me a little bit more about that. I
realize if we hand it to staff, it's going to get done. And if we hand it to volunteers, it it may eventually get done. But there's value in that exercise, right? We bring people together. And that's what makes Carile a community is, you know, the kitchen table talks for the master plan and the,
you know, the coming together and the just hashing out ideas. And that's how you get to know your neighbors. So that's that's the value of having more of a volunteer in your mind. Is the it's not balanced right now or what what is the balance in your opinion? >> So um part of the thing that I just said
to you which was make sure your committee and I know you only have so many volunteers, right? So this is ideal. >> It's always a problem. Yeah. >> That it's balanced between future thinkers and current doers. But also I agree with you if you give something to staff it's going to get done but it's going to get done
>> without input. >> Right. Mhm. >> Maybe from committees, boards, stakeholders, etc. Unless the staff does that. >> Yeah. >> So, you don't want to just give things to staff unless it's properly >> like we've all talked about this and we agree now go. >> This is Yeah. Firm guidance and
direction. Yeah. >> So, Sarah has been doing a great job of assembling documents, getting information into the right people's hands, getting them to talk. She is not writing land management plans yet because then it would be Sarah's plan and not the town's plan,
>> right? No, >> even though she's very capable of doing that, I think. Maybe she disagrees, but >> just write the plans. >> And then current issues, land management planning, removing the silos. Yep. Need to update the conservation policies and practices. That's on consom.
>> Volunteer training and recruitment. That is a goal that we're going to address shortly when we talk about our goals. Okay. Okay. What else do you need from us tonight, Ryan? >> That's it. >> Is that it? Okay. >> It's good discussion. Thank you. >> We help at all. I feel like I mean, can
we >> If this was a financial line item, it would be the equivalent of OPB or your building deferred maintenance. This is a asset liability that's hanging out there. And if you don't start working on it, it's going to solve itself.
>> We do not want that. >> No. the cost to to fix it once it's gone wrong is going to be too high. So if we start working on it now, I think we can do it. >> Yeah. >> And people have been forever like this isn't a new concept. It's just maybe
it's a new era. >> Can I just for digitizing if you have stuff like you've got a lot of stuff that's related to this that needs to be digitized. Is this something you could offer volunteer hours to high school kids to come in and go >> at some point? Sometimes that that's
more management. Um because you have to know what you're getting rid of and >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Because some of that is forever if you get rid of the wrong document. >> You just have them scan it through and not get rid of it.
>> I know this isn't I know this isn't like just to give a quick full answer. A file might be this thick and you might only need that. And if you only need that, it saves money to only scan that. You have to you have to go through it. >> Assuming you found that file in the first [cough] >> Yeah.
>> It's not as simple. It's not a big stack and let's just get through it. It's >> so Ryan, what's involved with uh standing up the committee to update the open space and recreation plan? Can we just uh I think we just put out the all call last time and people raised their
hand and as we saw [clears throat] with the discussion with Fox Hill, this is a subject matter that interests a lot of people in town and we tend to get good turnout for the master plan, open space plan. These are passion areas for people. Um is that a is that a good
approach or did you need something more short term? I would suggest when you talk to the reccom and the and the conscom that you ask them what their plan is and then help facilitate one that exists or doesn't. >> Okay. Okay. >> Because they're the primary stakeholders.
>> They are. Yeah. Okay. We are over time on that particular topic. Why don't we go ahead and move on. We're going to look at goals real quick. My intent here was just if if anyone had any edits from the version that Gretchen sent out and
then to assign a select board sponsor who can help um lead the effort and just make sure that it's you know on its way and it's things are happening and progress is is being made. Um does that sound good? >> Yes.
>> Addie Hill planning board, excuse [laughter] me. Um, I just want to get back to the topic of the open space and recreation plan. I think that it should be considered in the context of um master plan priorities that are not
just open space and recreation because um putting a claim uh that's open space and recreation on every available piece of land in town really limits the opportunity for other master plan priorities to be. >> So, I would encourage
>> That's true. um incorporation of um those priorities into the discussion. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you very much. Okay. We will turn our attention to
goals. I have two things on this because I wasn't here last time. So, Right. Right. Sorry. >> Um one of them was well, one of them is kind of an update. Does the one where we talk about ferns need an update based on
kind of the current trajectory that that looks like it's taking? >> I I was going to suggest the same. I'd like to take my name out of the [laughter] >> I don't know how they >> Travis is [cough and clears throat] earns
>> you're strongly leaning like [laughter] >> I think that came out of the last discussion and I don't know how it made it in there. I think AI put it in there. >> I I think that was an comment. Anyways, it was
>> okay. It we aren't going to name names in the goals. So, we can take out >> Vice Chair Snell will serve as liaison. [laughter] >> It's forever immemorialized. >> Um, but I do think that as a select
board, we talked about it and that we're supportive of Fern. So, I I actually like that last sentence in there. Aside from my little after removing after the comma there unless other people thought otherwise. >> I just don't think we need to name your
name. >> Yeah. No, I I'm asking >> I I I mean I think we still continue to support ferns and the tying into the wastewater treatment plant is sounds a little ownorous, but it's really not a
bad potential solution. I think we'll yeah we're going to have to >> I think for us it may come down to like the select board now we we don't have the say in in a lot of aspects of >> so I didn't want to get into like wastewatering let's just like talk about the the goal itself was there any change
to this language and then who wants to let's start at the top though DPW facility improvement project I think Uh Travis, you're liaison on that. Yes. >> Yes, I am.
>> Okay. So, I think that would make sense for you to take over. >> Yeah. >> As um and then the boghouse and the article 97 transfer that could really be
any number of people, right? I mean, that could be Rebecca >> probably. >> Probably best Rebecca >> probably. you. >> Okay. Um, we had a goal around the Highland building which is to recommend a path
forward one way or another at next at the annual town meeting I I I actually I mean how do people how did we get about and secure required funding sources? In our very first conversation
around Highland, we're like, we're not spending any more money until we've got a plan. And then somehow the words and funding if need be, you know, uh crept back in. Can we take out the funding piece? Would anyone be is that super important to anyone?
>> We wouldn't secure it prior to town meeting. >> No. So, it would be recommend a path forward for the Highland building in time for town meeting. Correct. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, we're going to get rid of securing any fun. have that too. The target is recommend a path forward for
the Highland Building period. The target is to present a recommendation or set of options at the 2027. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, we don't really need to say town meeting again. >> No. Right. Those are sort of redundant. That is >> so I would just Highland building period
and then strike and secure required funding sources if necessary prior to town meeting. >> Correct. That's good. >> We can't do that. >> Thank you. And then as for a select board champion for the Highland building goal, >> I mean, is it a school? Like if it's
school, it would be me. I don't >> I know that one doesn't have an >> kind of it's I don't know if it's if it's historical commission, it would be me. [laughter] >> Can someone any other any other suggestions? [laughter] >> Court of Appeals. Oh, that's
>> uh ESC. Who is >> Scott? You want to take it? you know, the the ESC doesn't even want this one. [laughter] >> Uh, you can you can put my my name next to that. Um, I can't make any promises, but I'll at least stay on top of it. >> We should each get a building,
>> right? Okay. Benfield, we have a goal, a stated goal around um meeting with Noah leadership, establishing a shared action plan, addressing unresolved conditions,
including HVAC. We have some other we're oddly specific on this goal. >> Yep. >> HVAC inadequacies during heat waves. Um I think maybe we can make a few edits on this one. meet with Noah leadership to establish a
shared action plan for addressing Benfield residents needs. The action plan should address unresolved conditions. >> Ju just under the site review. You take out the um >> How about just um >> You don't need to put the actual >> Yeah. should just address unanswered
maintenance requests. >> Are we doing this right now or is this >> what >> is someone >> I'm recording it? >> You are. Okay. >> Yeah. But we're looking to vote on this so tonight. >> Right. >> So maybe he could put it up after he does all this.
>> Yeah. Just in we're we'll be specific about what language we want to strike. And it's just the the language I want to strike is um >> to make the second sentence more general and not identify specifically HVAC inadequacies
during heat waves. >> That's oddly specific. Um okay. And then who would like to be a sponsor for Benfield? >> I think that's probably me again. >> Okay,
thank you. Okay. And then we have a under the caring community category, third spaces and community gathering. This is to support opportunities for community gathering and informal third
spaces. Um, this includes ferns. >> So, representative the council on a human services. Is that you? >> That's right. >> Yep. that is >> that's that's I think kind of one of their big you know initiatives is kind of you know if it's not the senior
center or community center it's figuring out what the uses are and how those can weave in >> okay >> so I don't know if that's something you want to >> can I put your name next to that >> with vice chair snell retaining the ferns titles
>> he can we can all work on >> I just said I >> I'd heard about that as from a lot Lot of people who say, "What are you doing? What are you doing about burn?" >> Travis, what are you doing? >> Yeah. And I say, "Well, if I owned it, but >> they ask me." I'm like, "You got to ask Travis. I don't know what he's doing
[laughter] over there." >> Right. >> Travis is holding the whole thing up. >> No, but I It is a It's a community is private property, but it is a community >> a community fixture. And >> yes. >> Okay. Trust funds dispersement. I'll go ahead and continue the work that I was
working on that uh last year, but that's really right now with with staff. Did you need something, Ryan? >> Just paranoid about spelling Rebecca's name. >> Oh. [laughter] >> Uh, town volunteer recruitment. Here's one that's wide open, folks. This is growing the town volunteer base by
recruiting residents who do not already serve on boards. Um, which is really the key part of that whole goal. >> I think the chair would be good at that. [laughter] >> You're getting Yeah. Being the welcome wagon. Sure, I can do that. Okay. Community Preservation Act assessment.
Um, >> so I wanted to talk a little bit more about this. This is the other one that I >> Yeah. >> you know, had some like more substantive. Um, I felt like I know it sounded like even reading the minutes like we tried to soften a little bit
this goal, I think, but I feel like having the conclusion that we want to go to town meeting through the warrant article is to hard and fast. Like I don't I feel like this might be we want to talk to community and get input, but I don't
know that like I haven't heard a lot of complaints I think and about the CPA and it's funded a lot of stuff that we've done to implement part parts of the master plan over the past few years. So I don't know that we want to do
something that hampers our progress like that. So I think and I don't know that it's necessary. So I don't know that I want to say like and seek affirmation at the like we might not need to go there. >> We can have a discussion but >> now Scott you thought it was very important to take the pulse of people.
What was >> Yeah. Because from a budgeting standpoint we're looking at within our operating capital budget. A we're asking a lot of people over the long term and b we we're we take a really close look at every dollar that's spent. Um and the CPA is a search
charge. there's a fair amount of the population that isn't familiar with it. Um, and it's something that the the community has supported and this question was brought several years ago and and um the town voted to continue it. But I
think given everything we're doing um to really look at every cost, this is it's not in the town budget, but it's a cost to the taxpayer. I think it's important to periodically this is like the autos subscription like it's periodically important to go through this exercise to both educate people get a sense of are
people supportive at the current level at a reduced level at no level um because to make a change to it does require a lot of steps and a lot of time. So that that's my point is it's just it just seems prudent to just check in on this one every five years or so. I
think it was also, you know, with a light toward um inflation. People could use a little bit of budget relief. If you gave people the option, what would they say? Because people could use um you know, maybe some households are struggling, Carl, and they say, "This is
the last thing I need to do is another, you know, and I I am right there with you, Rebecca. I think it's done a lot of good. In fact, maybe we preface this conversation at town meeting by saying, "And by the way, these are how your CPC dollars have gone to work for your CPA dollars have gone to work for you in the
last, you know, 25 years." >> But it's also important to note it's changed substantially from when the town voted it in. At the time, it was a dollar for-dollar match. We're down to 18, I think it was 18% last year. Um, and it also there's a lot of
restrictions around how we use it. So I think that part of it too has also changed and changes the value proposition of doing it and there's there's co there's costs opportunity cost to doing putting money in CPA funds because there's a lot of things that we think we would consider community-based
investments that we can't make because of the various regulations. Um, and then the other thing that I I just thought is worth questioning or asking from uh our state representatives is, you know, for a
town, we have a pretty we have a pretty healthy CPA fund. Um, and it doesn't seem like the state gives towns any allowance to say, "We really support this and we want to continue it, but we'd like to do a year or two years or some limited term at either no
participation or a limited participation." It's this whole like process to get in and get out. Um, and just given the economic climate in the state, it seems common sense to me that they would um support something like that and that it would also help them do higher matches. I don't know. It
probably would go nowhere, but I think it's just a a line of questioning worth asking. >> Well, for me, I think it was just that like we have language in one of these others. It says we're going to do this without the presupposition of the conclusion, right? So I think here it's like this is like we are definitely
going to go with a warrant article. And so that's my concern is that I I don't know that um that's I don't know that I support that language. >> Would you support taking So what are you suggesting? Just take out the warrant
article aspect. M >> I would say or we could consider affirmation at town meeting through a warrant article or you know just it's not to make it definitive that we are definitely and have already concluded that that's where we're going. >> What if we just said and seek
affirmation in advance of 2027 annual town meeting and then we can do the work and then we say we based on that we can say look you know there's a >> whether we want to put it on the warrant or not. Yeah. You could just say and seek affirmation in advance of the 2027
annual town meeting. Strike through a warrant article. >> Okay. >> And then >> you're taking out affirmation, right? Or not seeking >> and seeking and seek
what would the word be feedback. >> Your comment was about not presupposing >> and seek community input. And I think I liked your approach because you're saying, "Hey, we got to just revisit it. We don't know." But these are the things and there's a budgetary constraint, but
there's also a lot of people in the community who may, you know, want this, but we're going to talk about it. We're just going to bring it up and talk about it. >> Yeah. >> I have a suggestion here, Rebecca. How about I sign you the champion being champion of this? You We can change goals along the way, Israel, you know.
So, how about can I go ahead and uh I think you are CPC, right? >> Yep. There you go. Can I put your name against that one and we reinterpret as you see fit along the way? >> Yeah. >> Can we just make it so that it's not definitive that we have a warrant article? Okay. As long as we do that
then >> it's not we're not skating toward the the warrant article anymore for sure. >> Yeah. >> So, do we have actual language that what is it now? >> Seek affirmation in advance of the annual town meeting strike through warrant article. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. >> You want to
>> and then what's that? I I well I think the other party that is interested would be FinCom and I know I see >> Does Scott want to be the champion for that? >> What's that? >> Maybe you want to be the champion for this one. >> Well, I brought it up and so I mean it
I just want to make sure you know it's it's um I'm a little more I I approach it a little more from a budget standpoint. Yeah. Then >> you do have the I think probably better understanding of the intricacies of how >> Yeah, I'd like to keep this one and I'll
work with Yeah, >> Rebecca. I mean, I'm not I I just want to I'm fairly objective about it in terms of um I'm not opposed to it, but I'm also I think it's important that we kind of objectively opt in every or do something, right?
>> So that it just doesn't become this recurring hidden cost. Not hidden cost, that's not the right word, but >> it's not hidden, but you're right. I hear you. >> Um and I do think again with with some of the increases coming up with the building projects, people are there's going to be some attention. So, so putting the feelers out now is is not a
bad thing as we get into >> into some of the >> Okay. Shared services. >> Did we have the final wording though? >> If I could recommend to the chair, um, we have several guests for the 910, including Right. That's right. >> Council, who I love, but we're paying.
>> Yes, that's what I was trying to get through. Um, okay. We still have a number of goals here. We'll come back to this. Let's see. Okay. How about uh let's look at item 10 boghouse path forward. We have legal counsel on. Thank
you for joining us. And we have Julie. >> Oh boy. >> Okay. >> Hello. >> Can you hear us? Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yep. Hello everybody. >> Hello. >> Hello.
So, uh, Tom Tom is here and Jenny Jenny's been uh helping with the process that is required for for this. It it is a significant process and I know that this was discussed at your last meeting, but we wanted to make sure that we had a definitive and clear uh path forward for
this phase of the project and and affirm that, answer any questions you have. Um, I know our planning board chair is here as well. um myself, Julie, and town council for for any questions you have. So, to quickly summarize the options,
which can be informed by as much a detail as you want, um the concept [clears throat] of of fully designing this project and then putting it out for bid. uh would use the CPA funds that was required and would would add some some
hurdles such as um a special act legislation and requiring prevailing wage which could increase the cost of the project. The other option would be to just put it out to bid. And the downside of that with a lot more detail is less control
um over the process. And the reason why uh at least I have been talking to about uh control in this process is there are a lot of stakeholders who care a lot about the details of this project. So it would seem fitting that Carlile would add more detail to the process or or at
least put it out that way. But again, the downside of that is if it increased to a place where you didn't get a bidder or um it was too costly required town investment, then you would you would lose the $200,000 you put into the design. So I think that is the risk is
the design the design costs in this estimate. And I'm just summarizing this you can start the conversation. And I know there are many many voices in this project. >> Might consider asking some of the voices. >> Right. Do we have voices in the room who
want to weigh in on any of this? >> I see the planning. Just introduce yourself. >> Addie, >> you're welcome to come to the table so everyone can hear you. >> I like being in the back of the room. Refreshing. I don't know if we can
>> the folks online here. I'm not sure they can hear you online. >> Can you guys hear me? Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Um, affordable housing generally requires subsidy
almost all the time. and prevailing wage adding to cost >> is um an area where uh developers often seek additional subsidy to cover these types of costs.
Um, from my perspective, continuing on with the design process and, uh, being deliberate about how we think about what's important to the town in the design process will result in
something that isn't wasted money in the in um, getting to a place where um, there's an potentially actionable plan that while it may require more subsidy
um is the outcome that the town is more likely to accept as the path forward for preserving this important building and property. Um
it's rarely black and white in these processes where it's either X or Y. Um, you know, we're we're kind of painted into a corner at the moment for
X or Y in terms of pursuing a town controlled design that requires prevailing wage versus pursuing something much more open-ended that may not. We're painting at that corner right now partly because
of the moment we find ourselves in where we're getting different advice from Mass Housing Partnership than we might have gotten six months ago or a year ago. We are a couple years away from getting our article 97 land transfer. Right. So
[cough] time changes things in this business. And my perspective is that um continuing on this path given that the alternatives to preserving this building
and this site are minimal, non-existent. >> Um, I don't think it's time wasted and I don't think it's dollars wasted. speaking on my behalf, not folks on the phone. >> Julie,
I mean, I'm here to implement whatever policy direction you want to take. I do think just given the number of stakeholders that I've spoken to about this project, um, staying the course makes sense in my opinion. But, you know, I can pivot if needed.
>> I I had Julie, I had uh I think reached out to you and and I'm putting you on the spot now, but I I um I was curious about because it is kind of set up as this this decision of two things. And I was wondering, you know, if there's some
more examples of what those that decision-m process looks like in the because I think and I I use the word triggers or like like if we did I if we started down one path and you know we started prescriptively requiring this
and then we were told well you can't do that anymore. I was curious like what what would this look like? what are those risks um you know of of the various paths pathways. >> So I might want to defer to town council on this one but I as I understand it if
we continue down the path we're on and we don't get us a bid that we would accept we can pull back and you know try to do it in a less prescriptive way. Um, and then if we go the other route where we
like seed some control and put the RFP out sooner, we might need to look at things like a historic preservation restriction for the building to achieve some of the goals of the historical commission. So, we might want to assert control in other ways. Um,
>> right up front. >> And that was kind of my question. If you put a bunch of parameters on this and I think maybe this came up last time and I didn't fully understand it, but if you put enough parameters and you're you're saying we're we're taking the approach where we're just going to let anyone who
wants to be a developer and and come and and you know do this, but we put those parameters. I I [clears throat] thought that there was an issue with that that we if we put too many on we can no longer consider it that type of of project. Is that right? Or maybe that's
a question for Tom to or you. >> I think both. I think it's right and I think it's a question for Tom. [laughter] >> Well played. >> Okay. So I I'll start but Jenny's going to jump in because she knows this better. But good evening everybody. Tom Harrington Town Council. Um nice to see
you all. So um if this were a lease project, right? If the town were going to lease the land to a developer, you know, 99-year lease type of thing, we would say this is absolutely a public building project. And a public building
project requires that the town go out to bid and that the town paying wage. That's not the plan here. The plan here is to sell the land. So in selling the land, there is currently no case that says if
you sell the land, it's a public bidding project or would require prevailing wage. But what we're hearing from MHP who who gets to talk to the attorney general's bid unit, and sadly we no longer get to talk to the attorney
general's bid unit. Um what we're hearing from them is that they believe even a project that's for sale that where you're where you're you know kind of providing heavy design and a lot of instruction they believe that that rises
to the level of a um a public building project. So, I think this So, I I I think you're on the path right now where you're um uh
you're into design and you're going to want to come up with a specific design because that seems to be what the stakeholders are all looking for, which is fine. Um so going down that path um it's possible that it's a public bidding
project and it's likely that we'll have to pay prevailing wage. We can seek a special act to avoid the public bidding process of the construction that lots of towns have them for affordable housing projects where but but you do have to um
concede paying prevailing wages as part of that special act. So, we can go down that route. If we go down that route and you don't get the bids that you want to get, you can always rebid and and tell the public,
you know, we're not prescribing what you need to build. We're just going to prescribe the number of units that we want and the type of units that we want and let you figure it out from there. Jenny, is that fair? >> Yeah, you got it. >> Nailed it. And you know, I'll just add
the project was already burdened by a special act. So, you know, one thing that that makes some communities feel like, you know, that option is daunting is the fact that it's going to delay things. But,
I mean, you're already you're already strapped into an Article 97 process, um, which is likely to take longer. >> So, >> yeah. Does that answer your question, Travis?
>> Yeah, I Yes. To better understand those, you know, the decision points here. That's what I was trying to get at and if there was a way around it. I I just by way of context in the prior select board which I realize is not the current select board but the the moved this
boghouse project forward or supported it with the understanding that there wouldn't because you know there were also there was a lot of community input and we talked about potentially you know having affordable housing and doing it as a complete town pro owned project and
as we moved further in that direction it became apparent that it was going to be a expensive project. Um though it has a lot of benefits with the historic nature the use I mean there's there's a you know there's all these constituencies that are weighing in but it was going to
be very expensive for the the you know small number of units and I think that the prior select board had said if there's a way to do this without having as much town cost putting town taxpayer money put into this that was a better
approach. So, we went down this road and that's kind of where we are at this point. I'm trying to summarize that. >> Yeah. And it's and and I'll say it's those were all reasonable decisions at the time. Um and I will say honestly that up until
two months ago. Um we were we were comfortable of the idea of selling the property was going to avoid the the public bid and the prevailing wage and there is no case that tells us that we have to do that.
Right? So, this is very conservative advice that's based upon a conversation we had with Julie and MHP where they're saying that the attorney general's bid unit and if there's something wrong with the procurement, people file bid
protests and it goes to the attorney general bid the attorney general's bid unit. What they're telling us is that the bid unit is telling them they're going to start looking at projects that are for sale as public construction, too.
So, that's that's new news. And it's not, you know, it's a on their part. It's a conservative approach. Our advice is conservative based upon that approach, but they don't have any case law that
supports that analysis. So it sounds like set in any event we're out for a protracted schedule but the original aim here was affordable housing. What is the path to maintain at least some semblance of
being affordable in all of this? I think you could do that with, you know, either a design intensive prevailing wage project that gets a special act that helps, you know, re remove some of the procurement hurdles or a trim down
um, you know, RFP that says we're going to sell this to somebody who's going to develop it for affordable housing. That's not so much the the issue here. It's really the heavy hand in design and the um the fact that the the public funding that goes into
this project is another factor that weighs against it being a public construction project. So between CPC funds and the fact that you know you're unlikely to be selling this for fair market value, you know, those things would also tip in favor of it being a
public construction project rather than, you know, a straight property disposition. Okay, Addie, >> I think it's important to put it in context of order of magnitude of additional costs that we're talking about here. You know, we have a fire
station budget that's how many millions of dollars? >> 17, >> right? And [laughter] we have a um DPW building that's >> 14. >> We're talking about four units. >> Yeah. >> Right. where prevailing wage
adds 20% to the cost. >> So if they're half a million dollars each and we're adding 20% to that cost, then we're talking about $400,000. Um,
and by the way, if we get down the road with this design and we take it out to the market and the market can't make sense of a way to produce this housing in a way that attracts a bidder,
we can dial back and we can try again. We don't have to accept a bid. Um, if we don't do any design, we don't
go anywhere. We just speculate about what might be. >> And we're not talking about doing the design just to renovate the exterior of the building and then wait to figure out in the future. You guys have no idea
what building I'm talking about. what might be the use that falls into that building, right? Um I think not doing this process hurts us more than it helps us speaking on my own behalf.
>> So not doing it was not an option. It was [cough and clears throat] >> No, I mean that the design because Ryan positive was we're spending $200,000 on the design process. Should we spend $200,000 and waste it? If it turns out that we
actually have to dial back and just go to the market with a here's a site, tell us what you want to do market kind of RFP. >> This all presupposes the land swap is approved in November, which requires a two-thirds vote.
>> And if anyone's paying attention right now, there a lot of questions are popping into their head about what might happen now. So, um, I guess part of my question is how much are we into this before we get to November and have that vote? Because if the land swap isn't approved, we're back to
>> it's appraisals to get to that point. >> What do you mean? >> That's the amount of money that needs to be spent is on appraisals. >> I mean, is so when is the But you're going to have to show people what they're supporting. So you need some semblance of a design that they have
confidence that if we do this they're not going to put up some ugly modern affordable housing unit on the cranberry bog. Right. >> Right. But that my point is just that step one is what does the land swap look like? Are we talking about two acres of the bog house for all opponent land or
are we talking about two acres for two acres? Right. So that's step one. >> That's step one. But but people are going to vote on that based on what their expectation is for the final product. But knowing what that is can inform making the decisions to spend the money
on the ne not not that we're asking people to we would be asking people to vote yes or no not knowing what the final product is but having the insight of those appraisals so we can understand what the landweight would actually entail before you spend the money on
intensive design to be able to put before folks >> I guess how much money is being spent on the design to get to November Are we talking about this November? >> Yeah. >> I wouldn't imagine it's much, Julie. >> Yeah. So, we're spending some money on site planning so we can figure out what
the carve out of the boghouse needs to be. Um, we'd spend some money on appraisals and then we also need to have all to surveys of both properties, the carveout and the replacement land. >> So, what's your what's your cash flow look like for the block? >> We just I'd have to look at my
spreadsheet a little more closely, but maybe think about this for a second. 80,000 maybe. >> I just think if even if we if we decide to proceed as planned, there's a lot there's a new level of uncertainty thrown into this project
that I think is going to be a challenge for November to get the land swap approved because people will hear well down the road we could decide to not prescribe the design and then we can do this land swap and they could do a switcheroo. These are all things that I think are going it's already I think a
challenging vote for November and I think all of this uncertainty feeds more potential concerns. So we need to think about how we're going to answer those questions or at least answer them with as much information as we can. Um because I think that's going to be a challenge. I don't know. That's just my
sense. I >> think you frame it in the context of what are the alternatives. I also think that's one of the reasons why we're we're trying to get you to be definitive tonight because I I do think that reduces the uncertainty if you can say what the process is going to be. >> But you also said we could decide later
down the road not to be as prescriptive. You get to the end, you don't like the bids, you can pull back and say builds what you want. >> Tom, can we can we tie or Jenny? [clears throat] Can we tie the land swap vote to a particular outcome? meaning
it can be taken back if process doesn't go the way it's described. So I the answer is probably yes. We can certainly condition things as as part of the vote but we need to be presenting
the state with a clear package. Yeah. >> Yeah. I see your point. I do think it's important to remember that the car the land swap is going to be required for any use of the boghouse. It's not related to agriculture.
>> Um >> okay Addie, >> just a question to you Tom. Um, it's important to note that there's still a zoning aspect of this that enables the town to have a degree of
um, control over what what actually gets permitted. >> And [clears throat] I guess a question I would have for you is when you award an R a bid through an RFP
process, in advance of a zoning process. To what extent can you then condition this the I'm assuming this is a comp permit through a friendly 4DB and there's um
conditions to approval that you can implement and and impose through that comprehensive permit. Feels like there's a gray area there between what you award based on someone what
they promised in their RFP uh response versus what they um agree to and commit to through a comp permit process >> there there yeah there could be >> and so
is there um is there a degree of certainty that the town can have around the priorities ities related to trails and access historic preservation
affordable um obviously comp permit process only requires 25%. Is there a degree of control slashert slashcertainty that the town can have through the permitting process that they might not be able to have through the
RFP process? >> I So Jenny, I'm interested in your thoughts. I I think they can do it through the RFP process. I think you can prescribe exactly what you what you want and if you don't get what you want >> I'm not talking I'm talking about the path does that doesn't involve
prevailing wage. Oh, [laughter] I I think a path that doesn't involve prevailing wages, selling the property as is and you're they're taking, you know, their shot at
I mean I I >> as is with no zoning, with no prospect of a friendly 40b. Well, I mean, there's always a prospect of a friendly 4DB, but of course, the select board can't make any promises about what the permitting will be will
be. >> Was part of the um design with the the you know, the design proposal with the um special act to take it through permitting. >> Yes.
>> Yeah. So, Addie, what if we >> Yeah, I'm sorry. What if we created zoning for this particular parcel? >> That was my follow- on thought, right? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> You zone it before you sell it, and the
zoning dictates what you can and can't do there. >> Right. And then it's not then you're selling it as is but subject to a zoning >> bylaw >> bylaw that already governs it.
>> How specific can you be with zoning? >> You can get pretty >> very specific. Okay. >> The block house. >> Okay. That sounds like a doable path. >> It is, but I do think you'd have to answer questions during that bylaw of
what it's going to look like. I >> absolutely and you have to spend the money on the design to get there for sure. >> I back to >> So then we're back to these two paths. Addy, which one are you saying you guys would endorse? >> Spend the money. >> No. What I endorse? [laughter] >> What I endorse? It's CPC dollars, you
guys. CPA funds. We're not spending budget. >> No. No. Right. Right. >> It's allocated dollars. >> This money comes from somewhere. But you're >> I would be in favor of that. I don't see a motion. >> Not like it goes back back to the taxpayers. >> You're right.
Do you have your answer? >> There's no path forward without us having control because there's no way the town would approve the land swap or anything else if they if they thought there's a chance someone could just take the land and build whatever they want
with every site plan they want. There's no way >> it was 1% chance it won't work. >> No, it no. And it's going to be hard enough even if you can design it and show exactly it every to the to the to the nail head. There's going to be a lot of people with a lot of different ideas
on this. So there's no path. I don't think there's a practical path without going the right route of design. And then it's we have to provide confidence that we will control the design and that we won't pull back and just say well
we you know we can't we this doesn't work with prevailing wage so we'll just give it away we'll just take RFP bids now. So we have to provide some insurance >> but there's you could pull back and ask for the bids and if you don't get what you want >> you don't have to accept any of them.
>> That's correct. Right. So there's there's it's an iterate I see it as kind of an iterative process where >> this is also a political process too. Like the governor's everyone's pushing affordable housing. Look at this lovely cranberry bog house. Like >> you're you're
>> hence my comments about subsidy in the very beginning, >> right? >> It's like you >> got to get some eyes on this thing and some some person some employees giving you advice. It's like no just >> so the the likelihood of this project going to the next version of this board although I think it's only one one
member up um and the fact that it's going to be heavily staff driven. We would like to make sure >> you're on the right path >> that we that you are you are on board for this path which is why we're trying to confirm it tonight. And if you are we'll continue and that doesn't mean you
can't change your mind but >> that this is a select board driven process. So, is everyone okay with spending the CPC funds to go get this thing out? >> Well, I'm okay with spending the funds to get to >> design
>> to November. >> Yeah. Can Can I ask why this is a select board decision when the >> I don't mean to be provocative. >> I don't know. I don't know either. But the trust proposed
a plan that the town approved through the CPA warrant articles to spend the money to head down this path. Why do you need this select board to confirm
that we would do that? I think Ryan Ryan was looking for guidance on the approach is the way you positioned us, right? You could do this. >> Yes. Well, the people executing this are fireable by you. So, we're looking to [laughter] make sure that >> CIA meeting >> that we're doing what you want and that
this is your process. So, yes, you could say it's not our issue and then as staff we're going to say then we're going to back off [snorts] um until it's more clear. And if the CHT is That's my not wellformed thought. >> Okay,
>> I'm good getting to November. I I don't want anyone to underestimate the challenge and the increased challenge now of getting the November article that land swap approved because there is a lot of the two-thirds vote is tough on on a lot
of things and on this one in particular um especially coming off of last year and everyone's got a different idea of what especially like the site plan all this stuff everyone's got a different idea of what that looks like. So, um, we need we need to give people as much
confidence as as we can within the with all the questions swirling that what the vision is because it's not just about appraisals and land swaps. They're they're voting on the project. >> I would argue that if it fails, it
doesn't mean the project is dead. It means that the project has been hasn't been well enough defined. Okay. >> Well, we can cross that bridge when we get there. >> Could be. >> Can I try something, Scott? See if this
helps you. Um, Jen, Jenny, >> be ready to jump in. Um, so the land swap is right. So, that's just taking it's all town land. We're just taking um you know town land that's general government and turning it into um
article 97 and take taking land that's article 97 and turning it into I say general government I should have said general municipal. Right. So so that's all town land. We're switching the purpose of the town land but it's still town land. We haven't yet voted to sell >> right
>> uh the property. So when it comes time to get a town meeting vote to sell the property that we can condition, you know, to say like so if it's if we go through a design process and we like the design process, we can say we'll
sell it if we can find a bidder who's willing to construct this. And if not, and we're going to do this second phase where we're just going to put it out and see what we get, then we can we can tell town meeting this vote only allows us to do it for the you know what we designed.
If this fails, then we'd have to come back to town meeting for another vote to sell it in a different manner. >> And there's also the zoning as path that could also intervene into this. Yeah, there's there's I think there's a lot of
ways you can layer this to give yourself the protection that you want. >> That's pretty clear. >> Better get more than what? Four minutes from Wayne for this presentation [laughter] >> or whatever it is. >> It's November. Nobody anyway. Sorry, did
I say that? [laughter] >> Okay, Brian. What else would you need on this topic? >> You need a vote or is that >> there's there's no vote queued up. But >> my my much better formed thought was as chief procurement officer, I wanted to
make sure that the procurement of this was clear. >> Yes. >> And then um for the the warrant process and the fall town meeting process, I wanted to make sure that the select board understood what they were doing if they put anything on the warrant. And I think that is tied to the money
and it's just much easier if if everybody agrees to how to do it is better formed. >> Sorry to interming. >> No. And there was no motion or vote in the in the packet. So it's not like we're voting. >> Okay. >> Great. >> I think we are >> you done with me?
>> I think we're done. >> I think we're done with that topic. [cough] >> And the only thing left on the agenda is a revisit of the last few goals. >> Are we good with the tongue cup? >> Good. Tom have that right. Thank you, Tom and Jenny. >> Thank you. And thanks for coming on.
>> Okay, >> that's too complicated. >> Where did we leave off? Uh shared services, right? >> Yep. >> Okay. Continue to pursue shared services. That's been brilliant. Uh who
wants to champion that one? >> Can Ryan champion one? >> I know he's he's doing a great job on that one. And I don't feel like that one needs >> I mean shared services kind of cuts across wherever >> everyone. Yeah. >> So I don't I mean maybe that >> maybe we just won't leave that open. >> Yeah. I because it depends on where you
find it. Like if it ends up being if the dispatch thing that that would be through >> lease >> communications like so. >> Okay. We're going to leave that one open then. Long-term building capital planning and debt service mitigation. >> What about vocational education
financial planning? That's that would be >> that would be Scott, right? >> The other one would be FinCom. So that would probably be you Christine. >> Yeah. >> For the long-term building capital planning. Yeah. >> Okay. And then under connectivity and access we have to advance digital
capabilities. This is the one where we are going to maximize digital access to public records, forms, bills, scheduling and other routine transactions. Establish an expectation for digital accessibility across departments.
Blah blah blah. We're recognizing some processes are governed by state law. Okay. Any sponsors on that one? >> I mean, some of this is more >> more staff oriented. >> Yeah, more staff. >> But this one and even the um the next
one, >> the road pathway covers >> swimming grants. Like I don't know that any one of us is like >> going to shepherd that one through. Right. Okay. >> I guess the sidewalks would be safety committee, wouldn't it? >> Safety. Yeah.
>> Uh that's me. I can do that one. >> Okay. >> It's just >> so this trails too. So >> um the roads, pathways, culverts. Did we have Let me look at the text of that. Did that also invol it also is safety infrastructure and then the complete
streets is sidewalks. So I'm going to put you Dave for those two. Okay. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> And then sustainable land management. >> That's all of us kind of work.
>> I'm the leazison to cons. So um you got your hands full. And I'm ESC, right? So, >> it would be the two of us. >> Yeah. >> But Oh, yeah. >> We're gonna >> Well, that's Yeah, that's that's a a
larger effort, but I think just through being the liazison, you have to be the kind of point person. >> Okay, Travis, I only have you down for one, just so you know. Um, municipal vulnerability preparedness and waste reduction.
>> Is that you? I'm good with one. [laughter] >> Let's [clears throat] um >> transfer station. >> I'm TAC. So, >> yeah, that's you. >> I'll go ahead and Somehow I came out of this with four. >> Okay,
that's probably the way it shakes out though. Really? That is >> We're all going to work towards this. It's just as helpful to to direct staff as to what our priorities are, >> right? Well, when we were doing Okay, so the idea is we're going to do a quarterly update on this. It'd be [clears throat] great to have someone
who can give a report out instead of all of us just kind of looking around looking dumb. So, okay. >> Um, that would be the ideal state. Okay. Anything else on goals >> for the environmental stewardship? I recommend taking out the identified parcels. So it says the board will
support long-term management for individual parcels and then take out the rest including the cranberry bog band at Davis Foxill and other popular parcels. >> Right. Let's not be so specific. Man, we got really indepth on some of these goals. So um
yeah, so the board will support long-term management planning for individual parcels. Period. Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah, you are part of the period. Yeah.
>> Okay. Anything else on goals then? >> Do we have a motion on that? >> We have to vote those in, right? Or you want do we need to see the final >> pending edits? No. Or we want to see it one more time? >> I'm fine with it. Yeah, >> I think the edits weren't that substantial, so I'm comfortable voting.
Yeah, with the edits we've made tonight. >> Okay. >> Language. >> There's a motion on page 30. Am I on 39 of 122? >> Um, [clears throat] >> I move to adopt the fiscal year 2027 select board goals as as amended as
included in the packet and amended during the meeting. >> Second. Thank you very much. Let's go ahead and do a voice vote. All in favor say I. Hi. >> Any no votes? >> All right. >> Okay, >> we have goals.
>> Good to go. Finally. Yeah, we're almost August [cough] of our goals. [clears throat] >> Uh, did I Okay, liaison reports is the only other item and community input. Is that right? >> Well, town manager report. >> TA report. We haven't done that yet. I
have. Yep. Okay. >> Report. >> Ryan, >> good. >> All right. Here's my town administrator report July 28th, 2026 >> under the human resources report which Aubryy's here so she can chime in if I'm
getting this wrong, but we're excited that to share that we appointed Gordon Landell. A couple interesting things about Gordon. He's a retired US Army Special Forces Lieutenant Colonel with more than 26 years of military experience and a flight instructor um who wants to become a police officer.
He's currently in the academy and because of the way he's being funded into the academy, he will become our employee once he's finished, which um which is a good deal for us and he gets sponsored while he's in the academy. So, a good deal for him. So, we're excited
to to have him on board and we'll bring him in when he's done his training. >> Yeah, he's got a great background. >> Yeah, he does. >> Fine. >> He does. And Aubrey and I will be going to the board of health meeting tomorrow. that might might be of interest to you.
We following the vacancy in the director role. U we've been invited to come speak to them about what that might look like. We're going to talk about shared uh administrative support and a path forward for for the director position. We've talked to a couple board of health members about this and and we we expect
that it'll go well and it'll be a fruitful conversation. So, we're doing that tomorrow and hopefully can help assist them with their appointment process for for their employees. And then um Aubrey has been working with our with our new interim school
superintendent on HR policy. I've met with him a couple times on capital investments at the school, the sharing of maintenance services. So um a lot a lot of collaboration there. So far so good. Um easy to be a superintendent in
the summer, but a lot to learn in in a couple months. So um working well with with Brad and it's been great to get to know him. In terms of department updates and information, as you know, the regional dispatch grant was was denied by the state 911 development grant because of [clears throat] competitiveness. We met as a group,
meaning all of the town officials and public safety officials that were involved in the original grant process to [clears throat] see if a feasibility study is possible with UMass. Uh the good part about this is the Colin Center offers the service for free, but um we would need to identify whether or not
their their output would be convincing to to the two communities. So they want to hear uh what the Colin Center has to offer and then we'll bring that to you to see if that's something you're interested in. If you're not, we'd wait for the next state 911 development grant cycle for for that investigation unless
there was a push or direction to to spend money. But these these physibility studies can be, you know, more than $50,000. So, not a insignificant investment. Our custodial services bid was awarded a three-year contract to Pro City out of
Manchester, New Hampshire. Uh, Alpro did a great job for us in the interim providing custodial services, but we are we are going with the lowest and most responsible bidder, Pro City. Uh, this new hybrid model, it looks to improve retention and reduce costs. So the there
is less cost. They provide their own backup if if there's any issue and as a as a contract we have a lot of control over the process. There is no custodians who are currently employed that will be replaced by a contract. The contract states that if there's a vacancy we would consider adding the agency
service. When we did try to hire custodial services in the past we were very very unsuccessful often leaving place uh positions open for months. Um, so this is a it's a win-win for the town. And again, not replacing any employees, just slowly integrating the
contract as vacancies exist. Very excited to tell you that the Goddess of Liberty is ready for her cleaning. That'll likely happen in August. U, we do expect some fanfare during this event. It's a very popular monument. We're going to try and do some video. There will be a police detail to control traffic and I'm sure there'll be a
Please be safe as you're going through the Rotary even uh even as you see the monument being cleaned. Uh something you need to act on tonight are for our climate leaders grant. We are seeking $1 million from the department of energy resources to replace HVAC units on the Robins and
Grant buildings. This aligns with the town's decarbonization roadmap and it is a process that's been heavily stewarded by the MFC and the facilities department. The last thing we need is uh a letter from you endorsing the application. So if you're willing to consider that um please vote now. So I
move to support Carile's application to the climate leaders decarbonization accelerator grant to fund HVAC upgrades at the Robins and Grant buildings. >> Second thought this was my job today. >> That's great on it. >> Do we have a second? [snorts] >> Second.
>> Okay, great. Thank you very much. >> Any discussion or deliberation? >> Okay, let's go ahead and do a voice vote. All in favor say I. I. >> Any no votes? Okay, >> another item that needs your attention
is your EV charging stations. Uh, a variable has come up with these charging stations. The town prepaid for 5 years of service on these polls, and that 5-year period is up. So, the the cost for this, as analyzed by Sarah, who's still online here, to answer any questions you have about this, um,
increases our cost to the point where, um, we would need a decision. So, $600 versus 21 $2,100. Assuming the select board is still requiring these chargers to operate at no cost to the town, which is which is a direction that that I had received early
on in my tenure here. Both uh Sarah, myself, and the ESC are recommending the following, which is um attached in a memorandum to you. So, first switching to the G1 demand rate from the G1 non-demand rate. this will increase charging speed and and maybe attract
more more revenue. Uh something to test because that demand does intentionally lower costs, but it we also think that it um pushes some people away. The ratings are not are not great on Charge Point. Take one of the chargers offline. This will reduce the operating cost for that and it will allow us to again
assess demand uh versus cost and then re-evaluate in January to determine if a second charger should be removed. Uh again, this is assuming that the town does not want to invest in keeping these chargers going um at some cost. So, we
think this is the best path forward for uh assessing continuing to assess how this is going to work. >> I just had Sarah nice memo on this. I I just had one question. Can you when if you do this, can you put them back online in the future or is it It's not a
oneandone forever, right? Yeah, I think the taking it offline would be mostly um an adjustment with the software unless we really wanted to remove the equipment, but at least in my mind, I was um what I mean by taking it
offline was basically just um turning the charger off. Okay. >> So that it doesn't Yeah. people can't charge from it um or find it, you know, when they use the Charge Point app or one of the other EV charging apps. >> Yeah. But if we found it was, you know, we wanted to put it back on, we could we
can change it. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Norm, normally you don't vote on these things the night of. We've tried to provide information. Um, but we we do need direction as as of right now. You would be running a deficit and we would need to find funding for it and we
would, but that would be counter to previous guidance. So, ready to vote tonight? Not. We'll uh >> you know we'll we'll do a vote but just a tiny exploratory conversation. Do we have any idea as to why the utilization appears to be so extremely low? Is it
>> um charging is too slow? Location's not attractive. >> I can speak to some of this if that's helpful. >> Yeah. >> Um and I see Eric is approaching which is great. Um essentially it's kind of a
a long and bumpy history with um figuring out what the best price point is to um attract people to charge. Um so when I started the price was 65 cents per kilowatt
hour, which is just way above what anybody would pay charging at home, right? >> Um and that was because of the demand charge. So, um, one of the switches in the memo that I discuss is switching from that demand rate structure to the
non-demand, right? And that would free us from having to worry about getting hit with a demand charge. Um, >> and that has slowed uh the having the demand charge as we've had or the threat of the demand charge uh prompted them
to, you know, the the folks who were configuring the chargers at the beginning of this five-year period. um to essentially you could use the word throttle or cap the amount of power available. So it
basically just slows down the charging the more cars that get plugged in. Um so like the most power that could be drawn at one time is 9.9 kilowatts. Um and people didn't love that because they're
also what are called level two chargers. Um, and as level three chargers, which are super fast, have become more and more common, um, people are less inclined to sit around for several hours while their car charges. Um, so that's
part of it. Um, I think location also plays a role. Um, you know, since there's not a lot of, you know, commercial activity in Carlile Town Center, there's not a lot of reasons that someone from out of town would be, you know, parking in the school parking
lot unless they were attending an event. Um, and so we found that when we lowered the price, this was probably two years ago at this point, we lowered the price to like the market or the the average in the area, which was 30 cents
per kilowatt hour. And we did see um an increase in charging based on that. Mostly from school staff. That's pretty much the the most consistent user group, but even then that's just a handful of of when I say handful, I think it's
truly between three and five people. Um, so I think it's a combination of a lot of different factors that we have kind of tested from different angles to see if we can increase the um the income
from the Chargers to to break even. Um, and because we did the whole prepaid contract, right now we're okay, but come September 5th when that contract ends, we're currently not taking in enough to pay for those costs. if we have business
as usual. >> Okay. Thank you, Sarah. Eric, did you want to say something? >> Yeah, there's just a couple things that you you had a bunch of different questions that you had asked. Just to clarify, the uh the the revenue that the 600 per year is actually the income. That's revenue less the cost of electricity. So, it is used a lot more
than than >> Oh, okay. >> So, that's just a one clarification there, but that is the important number because that's the money that would be available to cover these communication charges for Charge Point. Um and that's a big and that's still a big lift. So we have to charge the cost of electricity
plus more >> to cover that. Um going to the going away from the demand charge is absolutely critical because you know there's tons of reviews on charge point that say you know when you're throttled you're getting 1.6 kilowatts which is
just just to put it in perspective an hour of charging gets you six miles. >> Yeah. That's it's 1.6. >> So it's very little. Um, I think that's that's important. So, that's almost a given. We we we do that. Uh, the price of electricity goes up a little bit, but
the cost the the price elasticity of demand isn't that, you know, strong. I think that's not going to affect people's ability to or desire to use it. The target really are the school teachers and the staff. That really is people going through town. You know,
it's a nice thing. You know, Carl has these chargers. You know, we're climate leader. we're, you know, municipality that's that's um, you know, leading by example, but the target is really staff, teachers, town residents that don't have
their own charges and and that's a small number. So, it's really the the town staff and the teachers that are the um the bigger target for it. So, the school is a good enough location for that in general. Um, I don't think that's that's really a problem. Um, one of the question you asked, you know, do we is
are we actually trying to generate income from this? Not really. We're just we're happy to break even. So, that's the critical path that Sarah is describing. Um, were there other questions? I was trying to remember if I got most of what you had asked. >> I think that's pretty much everything. Are we I think I mean does anyone have
any questions? Are we ready for a vote? >> So, if we take two offline, we have two ports. So, that's two cars that get charged. >> Yeah. So, each charger has two ports, right? So there's a total of six cars that can be charged at one time. Um, so yeah, I think that the strategy is take
one charger. So take two ports off, which takes, you know, >> we have two options, right? One charger or two option or two chargers off. >> Well, take one offline and test it and maybe the next step would be to take two offline. >> Okay.
>> Okay. Any other questions? >> No. >> Okay. Are we ready to vote on this? Okay. Can we get a motion? >> There's no motion for this. >> There is no motion for this one. >> You don't. But the motion would be to
accept the recommendations from the ESC, >> the memo, and from the ESC. >> So moved. [laughter] >> We do that. >> Yeah. I move that we accept the recommendations provided by the ESC tonight in the memo included in the
packet. Um, including taking one charger offline and switching to G1 non-demand rate and release power supply cap. >> Second. >> Second. You're on it. >> Okay, let's do go ahead and do a voice
vote. >> The last one. >> All in favor say I. >> I. Any no votes? >> Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you, Sarah. I'll have a better thank you tomorrow >> when it's not so late.
>> All right. Uh for capital project updates, the elevator project is moving. The architect is speaking with the the construction company. I know that because I get all the emails and we're working through it's just a reminder that town hall will see some disruption uh when the town hall work starts and
that's likely in the fall. The annual road maintenance project will begin in a month or so. The contract was signed tonight. A $738,339 contract that includes paving on Heel Pope Southwest Judy Farm, the drainage
leading to Autobond Lane, North Road, Indian Hill Road, and Autumn Lane. Um, and then we have a note here that says we're going to be holding your annual road maintenance hearing and plan update in September for next year. So, we're already thinking about next year. We did receive our Chapter 90 aotment this week.
So, um, the $300 million bill that was passed, which nets us about $430,000, did did come in, and we have it, so that always feels good. >> Great. >> The connected car Carile sidewalk projects is about three weeks away from surveying be complete and design
starting. Um, also of note here, Representative Gataldo, as I told you last time with help from member Thomas was uh able to include a 200K bond earmark request in the House version of the economic development bill. That hasn't passed yet. So, um, if you like
to send letters, please send one about that. We could use that 200k to um, help gap the project. The other thing you you will see is a CPC request for ADA funding uh in the town meeting cycle which I am working on submitting. Some CPS projects that are that procurement
process has begun for is the retaining wall um that you know is broken if you've been to the school that is being supported by a state earmark thanks to Senator Barrett's office. The main stairway repair will go out to bid this week. That's the stairway that leads to the Burley Auditorium, not the Corey
Auditorium. um classroom flooring, that project from the capital plan, and then the facilities garage doors. So, we'll be reporting on all of that to you. For your building construction projects, the police station continues to march along. We've we've asked that they uh continue
to speed through the first floor work as that's really uh disrupting our officers, but more particularly our our dispatchers who have to both balance the outdoor facilities and manning the manning the services. So, um, thank you
to all the employees for dealing with with the renovations, but of course it'll be worth it when it's complete. Still a couple months behind schedule. We should have a final determination on that in the next couple weeks. Fire station renovation. You got a a pretty good update tonight. Still looking for
you to provide input on on your on what you need to see to feel comfortable that that project's moving forward the way that you would like it. And of course, we will make sure that it is. the DBW renovation. Uh you will be reviewing a contract from Helen Carl Architects or
HKA. They'll bring that document to you. We'll bring that to you at your next meeting. And then the DPW committee led by member Snell here, Vice Chair Snell, sorry. Um he'll provide you with an with an update. And the committee went to Hudson this week to view a similar
project. I I enjoyed the visit and it was very productive and able to see a lot of the way the architect thinks about these projects and and what would be incorporated and what we do and do not need in terms of the library renovation. Again, just letting people know that one River Street is where the
library is. I was able to attend their um their ribbon cutting ceremony, which was fun. A few of us with some scissors and a ribbon and it was nice and then people came inside, so that was great. Um, I know that I thought when they were talking about a temporary space that it would that it would be tiny and and
maybe difficult. It's not. It's it's almost full service. Uh, the staff has plenty of room and the library is fully functional. They had an event or a program that night. So, um, the library is great. They're run by a great department head and um, you should go check out the temporary library because
it's it is fully functional. In terms of employee recognition, just wanted, you saw her tonight, town clerk Ashley Cody and assistant town clerk Melissa Donnish have successfully scanned and uploaded all the town reports dating back to 1854, which is going to >> That's cool. By the way,
>> increased. I read a couple. >> I read them, too. I was fascinated. >> Highland was still an issue. No. [laughter] >> So, this is being fed into our into our AI platform, right? For much more uh for much quicker research. A lot of this is, you know, who was town clerk in whatever
year. It can spit it out or we can go find that document and that source. So, the the town reports are great. That was a lot of work. You have to cut out the pages, right? Scan them as you can imagine, reassemble them, and put them back into storage without ruining the document. Uh, so that team worked really
hard and um no one is surprised by that because you've you've seen them in action. >> Brian, just quickly, was that the thing we voted on the funded >> 14K? Yeah. Is that separate? >> No, that's more of the um the preserved vital records. This is this is a side project they've been working on.
>> Oh, >> and if it was up to Ashley and the team, everything will be digitized there and we'll have a lot more access to these records, which is great. And stored properly. She is an archavist, so she cares a lot about it and we're not allowed to touch anything, which is how it should be. >> I also want to recognize Officer Cucose
in K9 Athena. They were uh brought to a high stakes situation with a resident from Chelmsford who's suffering from Alzheimer's who was missing. Um they didn't provide any of the the work, but they responded quickly and provided the backup that allowed this resident to be
found immediately and uh just showcased our mutual aid and our ability to provide resources quickly and uh the talent. So Athena is not just cute, she's useful and [laughter] um Officer Cucos is professional and does a great job providing service here and elsewhere. And this was recognized
by the Chelmsford chief who sent a letter to our chief just thanking them for Carl's continued mutual aid and professionalism which is it's rare to get one of those letters. So it's it's worth calling out. Okay, a couple approvals I need from you if you're so willing and a notification. So, first,
the American Diabetes Association Tour to Cure is scheduled for Sunday, August 16th. This is an annual event now, and they need your approval for using the roads, and it would be contingent on both chiefs agreeing. And then the second property approval
request is for the use of the Clark Room for Landmark College meet and greet for incoming Massachusetts students and their families. The sponsor for this is Jeff from the COS and it'll be held August 22nd during the day. um that is a organization looking to
help people with needs. So we figured we'd bring it to you to see if that is something uh you would approve. So looking for your vote on both of those. >> Okay. >> Is there a motion in there? >> Yes, there are. >> Move to approve.
>> I meant climate leaders. >> Oh, there's the diabetes ride right here. Move >> to approve the use of town roadways as described in the submitted documentation included in the packet. Second >> for the American I should probably put for the American Diabetes Association bike ride.
>> Second. >> Okay. Thank you. Let's go ahead and do a voice vote. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any no votes? >> Okay. We have our bike ride. >> No, we're going to do the um >> and then there was a second one. Yeah.
>> I don't know where it is. >> I'm seeing a Landmark College use. >> Yeah, that's it. >> That's it. That is it. I'll make it. Move to approve the use of the town hall application for Landmark College to host a meet and greet event on August 22nd, 2026 from 10:15 a.m. to 12:45 p.m.
>> Second. >> Okay, great. Um, all in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Any votes? >> Okay. >> All right. My last thing for you is um there is there is a sign going up in the rotary if you want to see that. it
it does meet your your qualifications. But my last thing for you is just to get you in the headsp space for some upcoming discussions. First of all, marijuana that'll be discussed at your next meeting. There has been public input and I I bet that there will be more as you get closer to that meeting. Um, and the input's been both ways,
right? So, this should be an interesting discussion as it should be. The subsurface hydro geo mapping project also is uh something of interest to a lot of people. So, you can expect the community to participate in that. We'll be sending you that report so that you can review it and then there'll there'll
be a presentation on that as well. And then our ADA presentation, this is identified areas for improvement to comply with ADA. That's that's coming to you in addition to library, police, and DPW renovation updates. Getting those
boards in front of you to have similar discussion as you did tonight. And then of course all of the boards and committees that you've committed to to meeting with. So, um, summer is officially over. >> It's time to get to work. >> Okay, >> that's my report.
>> Thank you very much, Ryan. Okay. Uh, we have done everything but liaison reports. Is that right? >> Yes. Okay. Does anyone have any reports? >> Super quick. I think historical commission wants to come in on the 25th.
I don't know if Ben was going to re reach out to Gretchen, but we should put a slot in for them to discuss the demo. >> Okay. >> Review bylaw. Um and just I als I I met with um Brad last week, the the interim
superintendent, and had a good introductory conversation with them. nothing specifically to report. But um what I what I did discuss with him were our town goals and town questions specifically around um you know
vocational uh financial support slashcontrols and Highland and so I just kind of >> you know he's getting up to speed but >> great. >> Okay. He said he's been talking with you
and it sounds like there's a good opportunity for regular communication. So hopefully that's the case. >> Great. Any other liaison reports? >> Uh Recom is moving forward with the they've got their designs for parking
for uh Diamond Park. So uh I think that piece is >> close to settled. Maybe not 100% yet, but um and then they are working on the uh water at the dark dog park and so I think they had
somebody in to repair pipes and then were talking about replacing a well pump >> um because it that was the recommendation and I believe they voted on that in a special like quick meeting last week. So, I imagine that it was um
maybe over what they voted because they voted for I think like 6,000 or something. So, it might have been a little over. So, um so that's that. And uh that was CPC yesterday. Um
it was a light meeting. >> Okay. So, [snorts] um they went over the um grant application process in the meeting and that was and we only had I think one other person that was not familiar with it. >> Okay.
>> So, good. >> Okay. We are running significantly behind schedule tonight. Thank you everyone for hanging on. Do we have any community input? [snorts] Anyone on the line? Any community input? No.
>> Make a motion to chair. >> Exactly. Yeah. [laughter] >> Second. I'll take that as your actual motion. All in I'm jumping in on that one. >> All in favor? >> Okay, we're good. Thank you all very much. We are